# Other Discussions > Off Topic Discussions >  I have no choice; I am entering cocoon mode.

## Aames

I am sick of failing in the social sphere. I clearly have defects that need significant attention. I am cutting out all sources of my pleasure except for TV and music. The rest: video games, carbs, alcohol, (real) social interaction, etc. are all completely out the window. I WILL transform both body and mind. BTT will be my only social outlet for the next few months (this may be the most pathetic statement ever). I will spend my time outside of school and the gym by either reading or watching TV series. We're all gonna make it, brahs.

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## nynex

This is a bad idea man

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## BigThinker

> This is a bad idea man


 Agreed.  

While I respect your commitment, you can boost all of those facets of your life while maintaining (or even promoting) a social life.

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## Aames

> Agreed.  
> 
> While I respect your commitment, you can boost all of those facets of your life while maintaining (or even promoting) a social life.


 I know, man, I know. I just get so depressed seeing other people with their friends and gf's. I recently had a falling-out with several friends so I basically have two left and they live a good three hours away now. I want to make new friends but the idea of rejection kills me. Someone saying that I am not good enough for them (be it for friendship or relationship) would tear me apart. I just don't ****ing get it. I have had a very attractive gf, I used to get comments on my appearance about girls finding me hot/attractive/whatever (this was before my acne and my eating problems), etc. but I am just completely unable to meet new people anymore. My personality must be incredibly off-putting or I have sunk so far into social retardation that there is no escape. I feel this is all necessary before I have the confidence to move on and meet others. I don't know anymore.

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## BigThinker

> I know, man, I know. I just get so depressed seeing other people with their friends and gf's. I recently had a falling-out with several friends so I basically have two left and they live a good three hours away now. I want to make new friends but the idea of rejection kills me. Someone saying that I am not good enough for them (be it for friendship or relationship) would tear me apart. I just don't ****ing get it. I have had a very attractive gf, I used to get comments on my appearance about girls finding me hot/attractive/whatever (this was before my acne and my eating problems), etc. but I am just completely unable to meet new people anymore. My personality must be incredibly off-putting or I have sunk so far into social retardation that there is no escape. I feel this is all necessary before I have the confidence to move on and meet others. I don't know anymore.


 I'd say move somewhere new (Mpls?), get some job that forces you to interact with co-workers and maybe customers/clients (barristo, barbacking, etc.).  

I'll admit, it's really difficult to just get up and move because of cost and time it takes to facilitate the transition.  For me, moving to the city was the best thing I ever did.  I got a job at a bar where I made new friends, in addition to the couple I made on campus.  In the rural place I was before, I was just so depressed and bored.

Work, while necessary for money, is such a great way to meet people who you have something in common with (you have the same position/responsibilities, put up with the same shitty customers, etc.).  It really defuses the whole "getting shut down thing", as far as friendship is concerned.

I can not stress how much better my life became when I changed I forced myself to enter a new crowd in a new environment.  I'm sure it would have been considerably more difficult if I hadn't had the support of my family financially, but hope you can make the same transition with or without that.

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## TheLaughingCow

*Cocoon mode is a bad idea.*

Instead, I recommend finding something to get good at, that follows the following criteria:
People respect you when you're good at it
You enjoy it
It puts you in contact with other people

*Some ideas:
Find a musical instrument*.  If you're confident, choose one like flute or clarinet, as this will put you in contact with more females.  Otherwise, guitar or piano.

*A sport*.  Running and swimming are recommended.  Team sports such as soccer, basketball, and football as well.  These have the added benefit of making you more aesthetic.

*A Job*.  Lifeguard, salesperson, barista, waiter all put you in contact with other people.  Any job that builds camaraderie with your co-workers.  Plus, make money.

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## Aames

> I'd say move somewhere new (Mpls?), get some job that forces you to interact with co-workers and maybe customers/clients (barristo, barbacking, etc.).  
> 
> I'll admit, it's really difficult to just get up and move because of cost and time it takes to facilitate the transition.  For me, moving to the city was the best thing I ever did.  I got a job at a bar where I made new friends, in addition to the couple I made on campus.  In the rural place I was before, I was just so depressed and bored.
> 
> Work, while necessary for money, is such a great way to meet people who you have something in common with (you have the same position/responsibilities, put up with the same shitty customers, etc.).  It really defuses the whole "getting shut down thing", as far as friendship is concerned.
> 
> I can not stress how much better my life became when I changed I forced myself to enter a new crowd in a new environment.  I'm sure it would have been considerably more difficult if I hadn't had the support of my family financially, but hope you can make the same transition with or without that.


 I'm moving this summer to a new city. It, however, is causing me anxiety because both of my roommates (Now former friends. I am very angry with them. This goes back to my notions of rejection. When people reject me, I hate them for it. I can't help it; it's the way I think and perceive things. To contrast, I LOVE people that give me praise and attention. I would do anything for them) bailed on me and I now have to live alone.




> *Cocoon mode is a bad idea.*
> 
> Instead, I recommend finding something to get good at, that follows the following criteria:
> People respect you when you're good at it
> You enjoy it
> It puts you in contact with other people
> 
> *Some ideas:
> Find a musical instrument*.  If you're confident, choose one like flute or clarinet, as this will put you in contact with more females.  Otherwise, guitar or piano.
> ...


 I know social isolation cannot solve things. But god, my issues with myself just make me feel so anxious in public settings. Today for instance, I really am liking my hairline (I think I am finally starting to see results from duta but that's for another time and thread) and I have very little acne. I FEEL FANTASTIC! I know however, that this is fleeting and soon my acne will return and I'll find something else to worry about. Thus, I will return to being unable to speak to people. I hope to enter a permanent state of liking my appearance through cocoon mode. It offers me the opportunity to stop focusing on social progression; something that causes me a great deal of fear and stress.

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## Proper

> I know social isolation cannot solve things. But god, my issues with myself just make me feel so anxious in public settings. Today for instance, I really am liking my hairline (I think I am finally starting to see results from duta but that's for another time and thread) and I have very little acne. I FEEL FANTASTIC! I know however, that this is fleeting and soon my acne will return and I'll find something else to worry about. Thus, I will return to being unable to speak to people. I hope to enter a permanent state of liking my appearance through cocoon mode. It offers me the opportunity to stop focusing on social progression; something that causes me a great deal of fear and stress.


 Yeah man. I know how that feels and I do believe it works. I usually try to opt for indoor labor jobs and I feel comfortable and safe. Recently, a buddy of mine got me doing sales in public at a bath/kitchen/vanity stuff type store. I walk around the back a lot and avoid customers and constantly stare at myself in the mirrors adjusting my clothes. The only time I am caught talking to customers is when my supervisor comes around. But **** is it nerve wracking and uncomfortable to talk to people all day. Its an hourly plus commission job and Im content with just the hourly pay if I get to avoid people all day. Give me some shit to do in the back stockroom you ****ers and stop putting me on the ****ing floor. The only advantage is its nicely ac for the summer so I can look my best all day long walking around in a dress shirt, chinos, and high tops. Lol

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## Davey Jones

> I recently had a falling-out with several friends so I basically have two left and they live a good three hours away now.


 You should explain this part. It sounds like you're trying to blame aesthetics while ignoring a real issue because aesthetics is easier for you to accept/fix. Why did you have a falling out with your friends? And would being fitter and having read more articals on the internet really have prevented it?

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## Aames

> Yeah man. I know how that feels and I do believe it works. I usually try to opt for indoor labor jobs and I feel comfortable and safe. Recently, a buddy of mine got me doing sales in public at a bath/kitchen/vanity stuff type store. I walk around the back a lot and avoid customers and constantly stare at myself in the mirrors adjusting my clothes. The only time I am caught talking to customers is when my supervisor comes around. But **** is it nerve wracking and uncomfortable to talk to people all day. Its an hourly plus commission job and Im content with just the hourly pay if I get to avoid people all day. Give me some shit to do in the back stockroom you ****ers and stop putting me on the ****ing floor. The only advantage is its nicely ac for the summer so I can look my best all day long walking around in a dress shirt, chinos, and high tops. Lol


 Yeah, I hate having to go out in public when I feel uncomfortable or anxious. I just hope it gets better as my treatments take hold and I make improvements. I don't believe I am familiar with your situation; where are you in your battle with hair-loss?




> You should explain this part. It sounds like you're trying to blame aesthetics while ignoring a real issue because aesthetics is easier for you to accept/fix. Why did you have a falling out with your friends? And would being fitter and having read more articals on the internet really have prevented it?


 I'm not blaming aesthetics for my falling out with friends. That is more-or-less an unrelated issue and has to do with them bailing on me when I needed them. What I do blame on aesthetics, however, is my unwillingness to move on in my life and find new friends or pursue new women. I feel I cannot until I am happy with my appearance. You could be right, in that there is something else about me off-putting (I don't consider my appearance off-putting. I think I am good-looking and have potential, it's just that certain issues are holding me back from being as great as I could be). People have told me that I have an abrasive personality and that I appear snobbish before they get to know me. I think I give bad first impressions.

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## Exodus

> You should explain this part. It sounds like you're trying to blame aesthetics while ignoring a real issue because aesthetics is easier for you to accept/fix. Why did you have a falling out with your friends? And would being fitter and having read more articals on the internet really have prevented it?


 He's got a point. I mean you can attain all the internet knowledge in the world, but you gotta put it into practice, which I gather seems to be the hard part.

I empathise on the social anxiety though, minus the super-confident, Im sure it's affected us all on here at some point.

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## Proper

> Yeah, I hate having to go out in public when I feel uncomfortable or anxious. I just hope it gets better as my treatments take hold and I make improvements. I don't believe I am familiar with your situation; where are you in your battle with hair-loss?


 I'm 23, turning 24, nw 2 about 3-4 years back, started diffusing I believe a year and a half ago, started propecia a year ago, hair thickened back to almost original state but hairline is still ****ed at nw2 (classic v shape), but it doesn't look like it if I grew my hair out about 3-4 inches. Started minoxidil almost at two month mark, nothing changed but still using just cause. I am very very critical of my appearances right now and if my hairline recedes more or if my hair diffuses again then FML, I'mma murk some bitches.





> I'm not blaming aesthetics for my falling out with friends. That is more-or-less an unrelated issue and has to do with them bailing on me when I needed them. What I do blame on aesthetics, however, is my unwillingness to move on in my life and find new friends or pursue new women. I feel I cannot until I am happy with my appearance. You could be right, in that there is something else about me off-putting (I don't consider my appearance off-putting. I think I am good-looking and have potential, it's just that certain issues are holding me back from being as great as I could be). People have told me that I have an abrasive personality and that I appear snobbish before they get to know me. I think I give bad first impressions.


 Ahaha. Just smile a bit and look like you're interested from time to time and you'll "appear" friendlier. Thats what I do but whenever I meet new people and they tell me their jokes and shit, I couldn't give a rats fking ass about it unless I thought they were cool in the first place. And yes, the appearance thing for the most part, especially at this age, is for me, so fking crucial. I feel like its not fair that people didn't get the chance to meet me when I had nice hair (sounds fking lame but whatever, fk it). I dated a girl that started putting on pounds and I told her its not fair that sh'es not maintaining what she had before and that all the guys that dated her before me got her in a better state than I did. I mean c'mon what the ****. Then she critiques my hairline cause I always made jokes about it and I told her, **** you, if I could do something about it, I ****ing would and you know what, I acutally am. But for you? You can lose the ****ing weight but instead you don't and sit around do shit all so who's the one thats the sloth bitch. Pisses me off.


With my hairline in this state, it makes me more of a critical, judgemental, strict person. I was carefree til I started now have to caring for my hair diminishment (if thats even a word), and if someone ****s with me, its over for em. I feel like I am more tempermental than before, I tick really easily. I don't feel empathy except laugh and make a mockery of everything. I really couldn't give anything anymore. I'm more for "I'm doing me" thing. Yes, I do humor people if I like them but now its really hard to come off *genuinely* friendly in the first place unless they come at me with a positive vibe first. I can't find better words to say what I want to say right now but its just something that you will know if you develop these same kinda tendencies.

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## Aames

> He's got a point. I mean you can attain all the internet knowledge in the world, but you gotta put it into practice, which I gather seems to be the hard part.
> 
> I empathise on the social anxiety though, minus the super-confident, Im sure it's affected us all on here at some point.


 Yeah, if I could put my knowledge into practice I would be shredded and drowning in vagina. I really hope things get better; I'll do an update thread in a month to see how I am progressing. I hope you get over your anxiety too, man. I'm sure you feel some sense of freedom and empowerment since you started buzzing. I forget, are you on or did you try fin?




> I'm 23, turning 24, nw 2 about 3-4 years back, started diffusing I believe a year and a half ago, started propecia a year ago, hair thickened back to almost original state but hairline is still ****ed at nw2 (classic v shape), but it doesn't look like it if I grew my hair out about 3-4 inches. Started minoxidil almost at two month mark, nothing changed but still using just cause. I am very very critical of my appearances right now and if my hairline recedes more or if my hair diffuses again then FML, I'mma murk some bitches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahaha. Just smile a bit and look like you're interested from time to time and you'll "appear" friendlier. Thats what I do but whenever I meet new people and they tell me their jokes and shit, I couldn't give a rats fking ass about it unless I thought they were cool in the first place. And yes, the appearance thing for the most part, especially at this age, is for me, so fking crucial. I feel like its not fair that people didn't get the chance to meet me when I had nice hair (sounds fking lame but whatever, fk it). I dated a girl that started putting on pounds and I told her its not fair that sh'es not maintaining what she had before and that all the guys that dated her before me got her in a better state than I did. I mean c'mon what the ****. Then she critiques my hairline cause I always made jokes about it and I told her, **** you, if I could do something about it, I ****ing would and you know what, I acutally am. But for you? You can lose the ****ing weight but instead you don't and sit around do shit all so who's the one thats the sloth bitch. Pisses me off.
> 
> 
> With my hairline in this state, it makes me more of a critical, judgemental, strict person. I was carefree til I started now have to caring for my hair diminishment (if thats even a word), and if someone ****s with me, its over for em. I feel like I am more tempermental than before, I tick really easily. I don't feel empathy except laugh and make a mockery of everything. I really couldn't give anything anymore. I'm more for "I'm doing me" thing. Yes, I do humor people if I like them but now its really hard to come off *genuinely* friendly in the first place unless they come at me with a positive vibe first. I can't find better words to say what I want to say right now but its just something that you will know if you develop these same kinda tendencies.


 As for your hairline, perhaps you could grow it out and pull off the side-swept bangs look like Scorpion used to do (also see early Justin Bieber and Tom Brady pre-HT). Also, you may consider duta in the future. It really seems to have good results on the hairline (this is the reason I started taking it). 

And yeah, I definitely understand where you're coming from in regards to meeting people. I have a very hard time leveling with people and getting them to like me. My friends all think I'm funny and I'm well-liked by those that know me but, as you say, I can't leave a good impression on people unless they come at me very friendly first.

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## Proper

> Yeah, if I could put my knowledge into practice I would be shredded and drowning in vagina. I really hope things get better; I'll do an update thread in a month to see how I am progressing. I hope you get over your anxiety too, man. I'm sure you feel some sense of freedom and empowerment since you started buzzing. I forget, are you on or did you try fin?
> 
> 
> As for your hairline, perhaps you could grow it out and pull off the side-swept bangs look like Scorpion used to do (also see early Justin Bieber and Tom Brady pre-HT). Also, you may consider duta in the future. It really seems to have good results on the hairline (this is the reason I started taking it). 
> 
> And yeah, I definitely understand where you're coming from in regards to meeting people. I have a very hard time leveling with people and getting them to like me. My friends all think I'm funny and I'm well-liked by those that know me but, as you say, I can't leave a good impression on people unless they come at me very friendly first.


 Yah. i side sweep it somewhat but honestly, as we get older, no1 wants to see a kids hairstyle on a grown man. That looks weird and ugly as shit unless ur zyzz. But in all honesty, having a buzz of clippers 3 for top and 1-2 for sides is the most cleanest and most classic cut of all times (that may be subjective actually). If you wanna look sharp, longer hair is a definate no unless the face allows for it (just took a look at tom brady and yah he looks good with long combed back hair)

And Thanks for the suggestion. I will definately look into duta. It never occurred to me to take it until you mentioned it now. I just thought cause it was cheaper and can be insured which is why most ppl take it.

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## Aames

> Yah. i side sweep it somewhat but honestly, as we get older, no1 wants to see a kids hairstyle on a grown man. That looks weird and ugly as shit unless ur zyzz. But in all honesty, having a buzz of clippers 3 for top and 1-2 for sides is the most cleanest and most classic cut of all times (that may be subjective actually). If you wanna look sharp, longer hair is a definate no unless the face allows for it (just took a look at tom brady and yah he looks good with long combed back hair)
> 
> And Thanks for the suggestion. I will definately look into duta. It never occurred to me to take it until you mentioned it now. I just thought cause it was cheaper and can be insured which is why most ppl take it.


 Yeah, just be aware of a (assumed) higher chance of side effects. And yeah, that's the problem with the side-swept look; you can really only wear it while you look young.

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## BigThinker

> Yeah, just be aware of a (assumed) higher chance of side effects. And yeah, that's the problem with the side-swept look; you can really only wear it while you look young.


 Exactly.  Once you get into the professional world, it's all bout being clean cut.  It sucks to get older, but we have to do it gracefully and make the most of the present.

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## Aames

> Exactly.  Once you get into the professional world, it's all bout being clean cut.  It sucks to get older, but we have to do it gracefully and make the most of the present.


 Very true. I am fortunate in that I have caught my loss early and can still rock most hair-styles. Honestly though, I really like your hair. It wouldn't look good on me (I look too young, get called a pretty boy far more than I get called handsome), but it fits you very well. You would fit right in inside of the Mad Men universe. 

Anyway, it looks as if I may be forced out of cocoon mode far earlier than anticipated. Things are happening for me. My acne is pretty clear right now, my hair loss has pretty much ground to a halt (I do notice shedding when on EC though; I think it may have something to do with increased cortisol levels. I may make a post on this after some more experimentation), and I have my first date in two years this week and it is with a legit 9/10. I FINALLY sacked up and asked her out (after months of crushing on her) as I had reached a point where I really no longer cared what happened since I always had cocoon mode to fall back into and could come back stronger. I guess it wasn't needed; now she won't leave me alone and texts me constantly. 

I just want to thank this entire community. Especially the people in this thread and notables like BigThinker, PatientlyWaiting, Davey, Proper, Exodus, and Highlander. It looks as though my life is starting to improve. The very fact that this girl is interested fills me with confidence again. You guys really helped me get through what was probably the darkest time of my life, even though you're just strangers on the internet. Thank you for that. I only hope that I can ride this wave of good-feelings and maintain both my aesthetic and social gains.

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## itsmyhairs

> Very true. I am fortunate in that I have caught my loss early and can still rock most hair-styles. Honestly though, I really like your hair. It wouldn't look good on me (I look too young, get called a pretty boy far more than I get called handsome), but it fits you very well. You would fit right in inside of the Mad Men universe. 
> 
> Anyway, it looks as if I may be forced out of cocoon mode far earlier than anticipated. Things are happening for me. My acne is pretty clear right now, my hair loss has pretty much ground to a halt (I do notice shedding when on EC though; I think it may have something to do with increased cortisol levels. I may make a post on this after some more experimentation), and I have my first date in two years this week and it is with a legit 9/10. I FINALLY sacked up and asked her out (after months of crushing on her) as I had reached a point where I really no longer cared what happened since I always had cocoon mode to fall back into and could come back stronger. I guess it wasn't needed; now she won't leave me alone and texts me constantly. 
> 
> I just want to thank this entire community. Especially the people in this thread and notables like BigThinker, PatientlyWaiting, Davey, Proper, Exodus, and Highlander. It looks as though my life is starting to improve. The very fact that this girl is interested fills me with confidence again. You guys really helped me get through what was probably the darkest time of my life, even though you're just strangers on the internet. Thank you for that. I only hope that I can ride this wave of good-feelings and maintain both my aesthetic and social gains.


 Unfortunately you may have trouble attaining an erection when you get to the intercourse part, that's the legacy of Duta I'm afraid.
Perhaps she'll be happy in a relationship with a guy who can't have sex properly though.

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## Aames

> Unfortunately you may have trouble attaining an erection when you get to the intercourse part, that's the legacy of Duta I'm afraid.
> Perhaps she'll be happy in a relationship with a guy who can't have sex properly though.


 a) I care about being attractive and desired more than I care about sex.
b) I currently have no issues getting hard.
c) You're jealous because I'm maintaining and possibly regrowing while simultaneously suffering no side effects.
d) I make a conscious effort to try to be kind to everyone here, even those that don't agree with my views. It's the overly-negative, completely-hopeless people like you that I REALLY pity. I may suffer from an obsession with aesthetics and depression, but at least I have some degree of hope and I don't go around trying to bring others down. Enjoy being bald AND a complete douche.

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## 25 going on 65

> Unfortunately you may have trouble attaining an erection when you get to the intercourse part, that's the legacy of Duta I'm afraid.
> Perhaps she'll be happy in a relationship with a guy who can't have sex properly though.


 Harsh way to rain on his parade. Erections are no problem when you feel good about yourself. 

Anyway, Aames. I was going to reply to your cocoon post by saying you might find it hard to stay focused if you are not exposed to the opposite gender....in my experience I actually got more depressed when I was isolated because I did not have social motivation (women) to stay on my game
It is crazy how much better you can feel just by hitting it off with a pretty girl when you otherwise feel like crap.

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## BigThinker

> Finasteride did NOT make your dick fall off after two tablets. Look on Propeciahelp and you can see by the tone of all their posts that they are incredibly mentally weak.


 I agree with this so much, I can barely verbalize it.

Their site never even updates from what I've heard either.  Apparently people are realizing how silly their claims are.  Wonder how things are going with their class action lawsuit??



I have such an odd mix of joy and anger regarding the fear mongers and how they influenced me; joy that I used my better judgement and stopped being a pu$$y about fin despite their flamboyant assertions, and anger that I let them deter me for a few months. 

What's done is done though.  I'm glad someone else shares my sentiment on those assholes though.

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## Proper

True say. I'm at that point in my life where I don't mind as much if I get it in or not cause I'm not trying to attain a high kill score no more brah! I'd rather have a pretty little thing on my arm with me looking aesthetically pleasing at least so people will look and think thats a good looking couple. Plus so my friends can see but if they ever wanted the girl on my arm, they can fking take her for all I care. Just another p*#&#37;y.

And ED? That shit don't happen to everyone and if it does... Does it really matter to you about that one person or every in public that looks at you? For me, the latter. Maybe me views will change one day, maybe it won't but all I know is now and its now that matters son!

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## Aames

> Harsh way to rain on his parade. Erections are no problem when you feel good about yourself. 
> 
> Anyway, Aames. I was going to reply to your cocoon post by saying you might find it hard to stay focused if you are not exposed to the opposite gender....in my experience I actually got more depressed when I was isolated because I did not have social motivation (women) to stay on my game
> It is crazy how much better you can feel just by hitting it off with a pretty girl when you otherwise feel like crap.


 I knew I was forgetting someone in my list of notable people! But yeah, I understand what you are saying; my mood has taken a dramatic lift and I swear I notice more girls checking me out since all this has transpired. While I was always a bit skeptical about how moods influence others' perceptions, maybe I am more open to interaction since I don't walk around with my head down as much. In any case, how is your duta progress coming along? I am approaching the end of two months and I'm pretty sure I am seeing some vellus hairs turn terminal at my temples. Nothing cosmetically significant, but progress nevertheless. 




> inb4 he kills himself now
> 
> Ugly bald people on here can't handle that there are some already attractive people out there who want to improve themselves even more. Apparently if you're not NW4 thinning, overweight, and facially ugly you have no reason to be doing anything about your situation.
> 
> I can't handle this shit anymore. And why should ED be an issue for everyone? Like you said, being beautiful is to many people more important than having sex. I for one could go my entire life without sex. On the other hand I couldn't go my entire life without hair or being considered very attractive. Maybe that's hard for some to understand, but to people like you and me it's crystal clear (not saying one or the other is right).
> 
> There's also such a huge amount of fear mongering. People literally creating lies about "fin only works for five years", "it could stop at any moment", and pretty much anything involving sides. Finasteride did NOT make your dick fall off after two tablets. Look on Propeciahelp and you can see by the tone of all their posts that they are incredibly mentally weak. I would personally love to do a placebo-only test on people suffering PFS. Make them take a pill that you claim has been proven to fix PFS. Would anyone like to bet against me that the vast majority would be cured? Moreover, the ones that aren't could probably be diagnosed with actual ED or something similar.
> 
> The reality is that post hoc ergo propter hoc is a logical fallacy which NOBODY considers enough.
> ...


 And I have nothing but respect for you, friend. I'll be logging on once my school week is over to discuss recent events and other things. I am really glad I found these forums. Before I had actually read the scientific literature and analyzed the facts critically, bb.com had me convinced that Propecia was killing dicks by the millions. I was almost ready to start buzzing and looking for a cell-tech dealer lol... Truthfully, I think the people that get sides (at least on some level) want to prevent others from taking the drug since they are now forced to go bald. Leveling out the playing field, so to speak. The more bald people walking around, the less they stand out. 




> I agree with this so much, I can barely verbalize it.
> 
> Their site never even updates from what I've heard either.  Apparently people are realizing how silly their claims are.  Wonder how things are going with their class action lawsuit??
> 
> 
> 
> I have such an odd mix of joy and anger regarding the fear mongers and how they influenced me; joy that I used my better judgement and stopped being a pu$$y about fin despite their flamboyant assertions, and anger that I let them deter me for a few months. 
> 
> What's done is done though.  I'm glad someone else shares my sentiment on those assholes though.


 Yeah, at the end of the day, they have fewer than 3000 members I believe. And while it would be very stupid of me to insinuate that they are all delusional, one wonders how many of them have not conjured up sides due to fear mongering. I have discussed this before but I had terrible side effects with my first dose of fin (ED, major ball ache, numbness, fatigue, etc). I was so scared when I finally took it; I don't doubt that almost all of my sides were psychological. It certainly seems probable since I am now on duta with the DHT levels of a child and am not suffering any side effects to speak of. I hope you start seeing results from fin soon.




> True say. I'm at that point in my life where I don't mind as much if I get it in or not cause I'm not trying to attain a high kill score no more brah! I'd rather have a pretty little thing on my arm with me looking aesthetically pleasing at least so people will look and think thats a good looking couple. Plus so my friends can see but if they ever wanted the girl on my arm, they can fking take her for all I care. Just another p*#&#37;y.
> 
> And ED? That shit don't happen to everyone and if it does... Does it really matter to you about that one person or every in public that looks at you? For me, the latter. Maybe me views will change one day, maybe it won't but all I know is now and its now that matters son!


 Yeah, I agree. I'm not going to say that I don't care about sex, because I do. But I honestly have more fun in the chase and the sexual tension that builds up than I do in the actual act. I never really understood wanting a high kill count; I guess I've always wanted to be a part of a really attractive power couple where everyone immediately takes notice when you walk into a room. I still want this despite my changing views on love and its fleeting nature; easy sex just doesn't hold a ton of appeal to me.

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## 25 going on 65

> I knew I was forgetting someone in my list of notable people! But yeah, I understand what you are saying; my mood has taken a dramatic lift and I swear I notice more girls checking me out since all this has transpired. While I was always a bit skeptical about how moods influence others' perceptions, maybe I am more open to interaction since I don't walk around with my head down as much. In any case, how is your duta progress coming along? I am approaching the end of two months and I'm pretty sure I am seeing some vellus hairs turn terminal at my temples. Nothing cosmetically significant, but progress nevertheless.


 A little over 9 weeks for me....not sure if I see a difference. I like how my hair looks but that could be from other things. My diet has been good and I recently started new supplements (biotin + omegas). Plus I was already on fin+keto for 2-3 years so this is more like a step than a leap for me.
However I am not someone who watches my hair closely anymore. I'm not inspecting every day, I just figure if it gets dramatically worse or better I will notice (this is what happened with fin....many months down the line I realized one day "oh wow, I can wear this style that didn't work for me a year ago because my hair is better now")

1 thing I can say, not having a huge shed so far has been nice. Was worried about that!

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## itsmyhairs

> a) I care about being attractive and desired more than I care about sex.
> b) I currently have no issues getting hard.
> c) You're jealous because I'm maintaining and possibly regrowing while simultaneously suffering no side effects.
> d) I make a conscious effort to try to be kind to everyone here, even those that don't agree with my views. It's the overly-negative, completely-hopeless people like you that I REALLY pity. I may suffer from an obsession with aesthetics and depression, but at least I have some degree of hope and I don't go around trying to bring others down. Enjoy being bald AND a complete douche.


 Aames, I know I seem like a dickhead when I post stuff, that's because A. I am B. I totally am a dickhead.

But honestly, I am not trying to rain on your parade or bring you down in some way, I am genuinely concerned about your well being.
And Duta is going to be nothing but hurt for you long term.
If the drug works it'll shrink your prostate, that's because that's what it's intended for.
And it's not just erectile dysfunction you need to worry about, it's hormonal imbalances, you will feel DRAINED of life, it'll feel like you're dying.

But you're a smart guy, you know how important your endocrine system is.




> my mood has taken a dramatic lift and I swear I notice more girls checking me out since all this has transpired.


 Your hair is a solid NW1.2 and you believe a few months on Duta, even if it had miraculously taken you to a NW1.1 has led to more girls checking you out?
You do realize how insane that sounds, don't you?




> I was almost ready to start buzzing and looking for a cell-tech dealer lol... Truthfully, I think the people that get sides (at least on some level) want to prevent others from taking the drug since they are now forced to go bald.


 You were almost ready to start buzzing your hair, at NW 1.2, *ARE YOU TROLLING US AAMES?*
Or have I entered the twilight zone of hair loss body image mania?


I'm not some bitter hideous NW3+ sub human who wants to see your hair fall out, I really hope your treatment works and you keep your hair and don't destroy your body in the process.
But you're being highly irresponsible and irrational about it, especially considering your hair loss is so minor.
Even without treatment you'd likely be a NW2 at worst when you're 35 and by then there'd be numerous treatments or outright cures to choose from.

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## 25 going on 65

> Even without treatment you'd likely be a NW2 at worst when you're 35 and by then there'd be numerous treatments or outright cures to choose from.


 That is not likely if he has MPB now. Most guys who start losing it late teens-early 20s are aesthetically f*cked by their late 20s (forget mid 30s).
Fin was great for me but in hindsight I probably should have started dut right away to maximize regrowth.

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## Aames

> Aames, I know I seem like a dickhead when I post stuff, that's because A. I am B. I totally am a dickhead.
> 
> But honestly, I am not trying to rain on your parade or bring you down in some way, I am genuinely concerned about your well being.
> And Duta is going to be nothing but hurt for you long term.
> If the drug works it'll shrink your prostate, that's because that's what it's intended for.
> And it's not just erectile dysfunction you need to worry about, it's hormonal imbalances, you will feel DRAINED of life, it'll feel like you're dying.
> 
> But you're a smart guy, you know how important your endocrine system is.
> 
> ...


 Friend, I am sorry if I came off as angry towards you. I often react with anger when people speak on my deepest, darkest fears. In many ways, I fear you may be correct but I absolutely have to try. I cannot live my life wondering what if. Additionally, I fully believe any side effects that occur will go away when I discontinue the drug. I will cross these bridges when and if I come to them.

Now, in regards to females. I am not saying that my hairline is affecting anything now; the way I style it shows pretty much zero hair loss to the average person. I was saying that my mood was opening me up to more social interactions but that doesn't matter; I fear my foray into social interaction has ended and I must venture back into cocoon mode. I don't know what to do; every time I speak to someone other than my very close friend, I feel as if I am an actor. I have to make up stories, pretend I care about things I despise, and contain my anger in order to appear as a normal person. I don't know how long I can keep doing this. You were right. I am ruined.

And as far as my comments surrounding buzzing my hair. I guess I meant to say that I was bracing myself mentally for it; rather than actually preparing to do it. Sorry for the confusion.




> That is not likely if he has MPB now. Most guys who start losing it late teens-early 20s are aesthetically f*cked by their late 20s (forget mid 30s).
> Fin was great for me but in hindsight I probably should have started dut right away to maximize regrowth.


 This is what I feared and why I jumped on duta. I may have played around with fin longer had I not started losing hair until my 30's. Both my dad and my brother failed to escape their 20's with a remotely decent head of hair.

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## Proper

> Friend, I am sorry if I came off as angry towards you. I often react with anger when people speak on my deepest, darkest fears. In many ways, I fear you may be correct but I absolutely have to try. I cannot live my life wondering what if. Additionally, I fully believe any side effects that occur will go away when I discontinue the drug. I will cross these bridges when and if I come to them.
> 
> Now, in regards to females. I am not saying that my hairline is affecting anything now; the way I style it shows pretty much zero hair loss to the average person. I was saying that my mood was opening me up to more social interactions but that doesn't matter; I fear my foray into social interaction has ended and I must venture back into cocoon mode. *I don't know what to do; every time I speak to someone other than my very close friend, I feel as if I am an actor. I have to make up stories, pretend I care about things I despise, and contain my anger in order to appear as a normal person.* I don't know how long I can keep doing this. You were right. I am ruined.
> 
> And as far as my comments surrounding buzzing my hair. I guess I meant to say that I was bracing myself mentally for it; rather than actually preparing to do it. Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> 
> This is what I feared and why I jumped on duta. I may have played around with fin longer had I not started losing hair until my 30's. Both my dad and my brother failed to escape their 20's with a remotely decent head of hair.


 Traits of a sociopath maybe? I've often thought to myself about this. It may be the aggitation of not being able to find out the reason why we must pretend to do the things we do. Its not always a bad thing though but I'm still in the midst of speculation even for myself.

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## BigThinker

> Traits of a sociopath maybe? I've often thought to myself about this. It may be the aggitation of not being able to find out the reason why we must pretend to do the things we do. Its not always a bad thing though but I'm still in the midst of speculation even for myself.


 Not sure that it's sociopathic.  I've always been the type to psycho-analyze people and their behaviors -- to my own anguish.  I can handle interacting in all the environments of my life without problem, regardless.  However it does cause a lot of unnecessary anxiety.

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## itsmyhairs

Aames, the point is, you might not even HAVE MPB, it may just be a slightly mature hairline that doesn't go any further than a NW 1.5 when you're 30.

By then there'll be treatments, better treatments they aren't dangerous.

Hell, NO ONE would even notice recession like that, not even other balding guys.
Worst comes to worst, you get a HT in a decade.

But you've gone straight to the end game of hairloss drugs, aside from oral spiro there's *nothing* more hardcore than Duta, nothing.

Those guys over at propecia help aren't bullshitting either, they got endocrinologists reports, blood work etc, it isn't bro science.
Propecia, being that it only inhibits 5ar2, Duta inhibits 5ar1 and 5ar2, is far more hardcore.

You should consider how dangerous what you're doing is for so little potential gains.
If you were a NW3 or 4 who really couldn't stand it I wouldn't even comment.

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## Aames

> Traits of a sociopath maybe? I've often thought to myself about this. It may be the aggitation of not being able to find out the reason why we must pretend to do the things we do. Its not always a bad thing though but I'm still in the midst of speculation even for myself.


 


> Not sure that it's sociopathic.  I've always been the type to psycho-analyze people and their behaviors -- to my own anguish.  I can handle interacting in all the environments of my life without problem, regardless.  However it does cause a lot of unnecessary anxiety.


 Highlander said something that really made me think differently about psychological labels. I really don't see how it's justifiable to label people that think differently as having some sort of mental disorder. Dave Chappelle put it best when he said that "The worst thing to call somebody is crazy. It's dismissive. I don't understand this person. So they're crazy. That's bull****. These people are not crazy. They strong people. Maybe their environment is a little sick.




> Aames, the point is, you might not even HAVE MPB, it may just be a slightly mature hairline that doesn't go any further than a NW 1.5 when you're 30.
> 
> By then there'll be treatments, better treatments they aren't dangerous.
> 
> Hell, NO ONE would even notice recession like that, not even other balding guys.
> Worst comes to worst, you get a HT in a decade.
> 
> But you've gone straight to the end game of hairloss drugs, aside from oral spiro there's *nothing* more hardcore than Duta, nothing.
> 
> ...


 It really makes me happy that a stranger cares about my health; truly, it does. But, I really do not believe I can stop now. I have mpb; with my family history, it is simply unavoidable. These drugs are the only chance I have at a normal, enjoyable life. I spent my entire childhood, including high-school, overweight. I hated myself and wasted the best years of my life being depressed and angry. I squandered my good looks and opportunities to have fun and be a regular teenager. I have no talents, no positive attributes, and no social network of any substance. My personality is tailored to who I am talking to; I have no idea who I really am. Everything about me is borrowed from celebrities, models, Zyzz, or some other person I look up to and want to emulate. My only chance of carving out an identity and having a fun life is through academics (which I am pretty successful at but I am afraid my lack of activities/volunteerism is hurting me, I need to address this but lack the confidence to put myself out there) and beauty. And to obtain this beauty and maximize my genetics, I need these drugs. There is no alternative that I can see.

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## BigThinker

> ] academics (which I am pretty successful at but I am afraid my lack of activities/volunteerism is hurting me, I need to address this but lack the confidence to put myself out there).


 Internships/Work-study/Research assistant.

These are the most important things you can be doing in undergrad.  GPA and standardized tests are important, but nothing trumps real life experience when pursuing grad school or a real life job.  I was a 2.9 GPA undergrad who got into grad school with a 1300 on the GRE and tons of internships.  Without them, I'd be some guy trying to get a job with a BS in Biology.

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## Aames

> Internships/Work-study/Research assistant.
> 
> These are the most important things you can be doing in undergrad.  GPA and standardized tests are important, but nothing trumps real life experience when pursuing grad school or a real life job.  I was a 2.9 GPA undergrad who got into grad school with a 1300 on the GRE and tons of internships.  Without them, I'd be some guy trying to get a job with a BS in Biology.


 Yeah man, I really need to get going. I'm transferring to a new school next year so I will have to hit the ground running. I have a 3.9 gpa currently but it may drop a touch after this semester as I expect to get at least 1 B. 

You seem much more intelligent than a 2.9 gpa would indicate; did you have hard courses or did you do a bit too much drinking?

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## BigThinker

> You seem much more intelligent than a 2.9 gpa would indicate; did you have hard courses or did you do a bit too much drinking?


 The latter.  I lived for leisure.  The house I lived in for like 3 years was a notorious party house across the street from the edge of campus.  I smoked a lot of weed too, though I don't blame that.  My first two years were the absolute worst, and I spent the second two trying to make up for it (which is _very_ hard to do with GPA).

I think I was a 2.2 GPA at the end of my sophomore year, including a D in English 101 - so embarrassing.  Once I was ready to apply myself,  I starting taking graduate level immunology, biostatistics, etc. and scoring straight A's.

I was genuinely worried about where I was going to land once I got through  my degree, so I knew I had to do things to bolster an unimpressive GPA.  Now I'm wrapping up grad school (which I'm still surprised accepted me) and my undergrad GPA means absolutely nothing.

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## itsmyhairs

Good luck aames, I hope it works out for you and your health doesn't suffer.

If there are sides, DO NOT make the mistake of denying them to yourself, just taper off and get to the doctor.

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## Proper

I didn't mean offense when I mentioned sociopath traits. I believe sociopaths are the most successful, interesting kinds of people. Some people might not even realize they are sociopaths. I am jealous at their lack of empathy. I like the surge for energy rush that makes them act on impulse. There is nothing wrong with being a sociopath. There are apparently more sociopaths in the world that we just don't know of and we will never know cause they are good at disguising themselves. With so much at stake, they might as well live under the law then to oppose it. They're basically going through the motions like everyone else to fit in.

Sometimes I feel like I may be one but I do get angry and sad and happy. Not to a big extent but just enough to feel like something is affecting my mood despite whatever the ocassion. Like if I don't study for my exams, I don't really care. If I walk in and don't know shit, I'd leave everything blank and just take the zero... Much so like today and I feel nothing that I just failed tet another course. Its strange.

I think about my future. I think about my hair. I think about girls. I think about a lot of stuff. But when it comes down to the wire, am I just doing these things to keep my mind off of what I may not be thinking about? Which is nothing? I feel like I would care if I go bald. I feel like I would care if people judged me but would I really actually? Who knows? Lol

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## baldozer

> Yeah man, I really need to get going. I'm transferring to a new school next year so I will have to hit the ground running. I have a 3.9 gpa currently but it may drop a touch after this semester as I expect to get at least 1 B. 
> 
> You seem much more intelligent than a 2.9 gpa would indicate; did you have hard courses or did you do a bit too much drinking?


 3.9 is a great GPA. I had 3.8 in my bachelors.

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## Aames

> The latter.  I lived for leisure.  The house I lived in for like 3 years was a notorious party house across the street from the edge of campus.  I smoked a lot of weed too, though I don't blame that.  My first two years were the absolute worst, and I spent the second two trying to make up for it (which is _very_ hard to do with GPA).
> 
> I think I was a 2.2 GPA at the end of my sophomore year, including a D in English 101 - so embarrassing.  Once I was ready to apply myself,  I starting taking graduate level immunology, biostatistics, etc. and scoring straight A's.
> 
> I was genuinely worried about where I was going to land once I got through  my degree, so I knew I had to do things to bolster an unimpressive GPA.  Now I'm wrapping up grad school (which I'm still surprised accepted me) and my undergrad GPA means absolutely nothing.


 I'm glad things worked out for you. And at least you got to live the true "college experience." Wish I did that/could do that with the time I have left.




> Good luck aames, I hope it works out for you and your health doesn't suffer.
> 
> If there are sides, DO NOT make the mistake of denying them to yourself, just taper off and get to the doctor.


 Thanks, man. I had a very wrong impression of you. I hope something comes out soon that allows you to treat your loss effectively without these drugs that you despise so much.




> I didn't mean offense when I mentioned sociopath traits. I believe sociopaths are the most successful, interesting kinds of people. Some people might not even realize they are sociopaths. I am jealous at their lack of empathy. I like the surge for energy rush that makes them act on impulse. There is nothing wrong with being a sociopath. There are apparently more sociopaths in the world that we just don't know of and we will never know cause they are good at disguising themselves. With so much at stake, they might as well live under the law then to oppose it. They're basically going through the motions like everyone else to fit in.
> 
> Sometimes I feel like I may be one but I do get angry and sad and happy. Not to a big extent but just enough to feel like something is affecting my mood despite whatever the ocassion. Like if I don't study for my exams, I don't really care. If I walk in and don't know shit, I'd leave everything blank and just take the zero... Much so like today and I feel nothing that I just failed tet another course. Its strange.
> 
> I think about my future. I think about my hair. I think about girls. I think about a lot of stuff. But when it comes down to the wire, am I just doing these things to keep my mind off of what I may not be thinking about? Which is nothing? I feel like I would care if I go bald. I feel like I would care if people judged me but would I really actually? Who knows? Lol


 Yeah, no harm done, man. I get what you're saying about having little drive and motivation. I am being completely serious when I say that the only thing driving me anymore is narcissism. I simply hate the idea of being mediocre or of people having a negative impression of me. I take rejection and failure excruciatingly hard. Probably has a lot to do with why I try so little in social situations. Maybe you feel similarly deep down? All or nothing (i.e. death) sort of mentality, I guess. 




> 3.9 is a great GPA. I had 3.8 in my bachelors.


 Thanks, baldozer. I often forget that you are intelligent since you say so many things that enrage me.

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## Proper

> Yeah, no harm done, man. I get what you're saying about having little drive and motivation. I am being completely serious when I say that the only thing driving me anymore is narcissism. I simply hate the idea of being mediocre or of people having a negative impression of me. I take rejection and failure excruciatingly hard. Probably has a lot to do with why I try so little in social situations. Maybe you feel similarly deep down? All or nothing (i.e. death) sort of mentality, I guess.


 Yah man! All or nothing. That top notch feeling. I know its normal in social situations when I get laughed at sometimes for making mistakes like walking into a door or into a pole (not to that extreme) but unless I know that its gonna happen and I do it intentionally, then it'll piss me off if people laugh at me. 

Like standing in line and some fat dude doesn't see me and backs into me and seeing my friends watching. They're probably laughing inside their minds but in mine, I just wanna tell them to **** themselves and beat the **** outta the fat guy but in the end, I'll be in the wrong. Or maybe someting alone the lines of liking a girl and having everyone know but the girl doesn't like me back in the end and everyone knowing that too. I mean it hasn't happened yet but these are the kinds of situations I think about and it makes me weary to try and be out there for people.

Other than that, I do attempt a lot of stupid shit even when not drunk just to say I've done it like I've hopped into the middle of the escalator trail and slid down metal trail in public. I always wanted to jump into this pool at the mall from the second floor (maybe one day). Snow angels in my boxers, etc. Maybe I'm doing it for attention? Maybe I'm just crazy? But theres a difference to me in my mind when its acts that make me feel humiliated or when I attempt humilating acts for attention.

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## Aames

Has anyone tried Starting Social Skills? I figure I can run it alongside Starting Strength.

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## Exodus

I love the 4Chan references. Hilarious.

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## BigThinker

Entertaining/10, would read again.

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