# Men's Hair Loss > Men's Hair Loss: Start Your Own Topic >  bald spot starting?

## goldbondmafia

These pics were taken about 10-15 mins after i showered but i dried my hair pretty much. 

I dont know if I am starting to bald there or what cause i have a mirror that looks behind and above my head and it seems normal but then in pictures under the light it looks bad. what do you guys think? btw if more pics or different pictures are needed let me know. im freaking out!!!!

here are the pics directly under light;

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## mothernature

i think u are  :Frown:

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## Tracy C

A couple of things...

You need to get some help taking these pics.  If you are going to try keeping an eye on it, you will need much more consistent pics - and much better pics.  You want to keep everything as much the same as possible.  Same camera, same back ground, same color shirt, same lighting, same hair cut and same poses.   Limit variation to the absolute minimum possible...  Consistancy consistancy consistancy.  Take these pics every other month for a year.

During that year, start using Nizoral A-D shampoo as directed on the bottle.  Check to see if you are a good candidate for low level laser therapy and if you are, consider getting a laser comb - and use that as directed.  Maybe look into taking a quality Saw Palmetto Complex and take that as directed.  I don't know if that supplement will actually help or not - but I keep reading about it in different places so maybe there is something to it.

http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/hair.../saw-palmetto/

If at the end of the year you feel your crown (vertex) has thinned out some more, start using Minoxidil and talk to your doctor about Propecia (or generic 1.25mg Finasteride).

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## mattj

Often people start to panic because they see the top of their head or crown in bright lighting for the first time (or in the case of the crown they weren't used to seeing it at all).  I do think you might have some slight thinning though. There seems to be a slight loss in density around the 'whorl'.

You would've mentioned if your hairline was receding, right?

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## goldbondmafia

> A couple of things...
> 
> You need to get some help taking these pics.  If you are going to try keeping an eye on it, you will need much more consistent pics - and much better pics.  You want to keep everything as much the same as possible.  Same camera, same back ground, same color shirt, same lighting, same hair cut and same poses.   Limit variation to the absolute minimum possible...  Consistancy consistancy consistancy.  Take these pics every other month for a year.
> 
> During that year, start using Nizoral A-D shampoo as directed on the bottle.  Check to see if you are a good candidate for low level laser therapy and if you are, consider getting a laser comb - and use that as directed.  Maybe look into taking a quality Saw Palmetto Complex and take that as directed.  I don't know if that supplement will actually help or not - but I keep reading about it in different places so maybe there is something to it.
> 
> http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/hair.../saw-palmetto/
> 
> If at the end of the year you feel your crown (vertex) has thinned out some more, start using Minoxidil and talk to your doctor about Propecia (or generic 1.25mg Finasteride).


 Will do, but Im already taking saw palmetto twice per day and have been for a month now. What is low level laser therapy? Im willing to try it if it can keep the thickness of the sworl there.





> Often people start to panic because they see the top of their head or crown in bright lighting for the first time (or in the case of the crown they weren't used to seeing it at all).  I do think you might have some slight thinning though. There seems to be a slight loss in density around the 'whorl'.
> 
> You would've mentioned if your hairline was receding, right?


 Considering these pics were also taken in bright light it makes it look worse but even in general i do think its very early stages of thinning at the top a bit and the sworl part ofcourse too. 

My hairline was receeding a tiny bit, could just have gone into a mature hairline though. My hairline is all good for now, then this swirl thinning comes up... :Frown: 

Right now im taking saw palmetto 2x per day, and putting coconut oil and emu oil on my scalp over night and using nizoral 2 percent three times per week. ive been doing those 4 things for a month now since mid september.

Im just very confused because in regular lighting looking at the back of my hair through a mirror it looks like a relativly normal swirl and even two weeks ago i got my haircut and my hairdresser of 5 years thinks everything is normal and that im not balding. wtf

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## Tracy C

> What is low level laser therapy? Im willing to try it if it can keep the thickness of the sworl there.


 http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/medi...laser-therapy/

About four years ago, my primary care doctor at the time told me about it when I first asked about treating my hair loss.  I've been using a laser comb ever since.  I don't know if it made any hair grow back but I do know that it made the hair I have stronger and look better.  I definitely saw improvement within the first four to six months.  Low level laser therapy does not work for everyone though.  The only way to find out if it will work for you is to make sure you are a good candidate and try it.  So make sure you are a good candidate for low level laser therapy before you buy a laser comb.  It is expensive, though they do have a less expensive version now...  Just so you know, I was not a good candidate but I was not a bad candidate either.  I bought one anyway and I am very glad I did.






> Considering these pics were also taken in bright light it makes it look worse but even in general i do think its very early stages of thinning at the top a bit and the sworl part ofcourse too.


 My hair restoration doctor takes my clinical photos in very bright light.  That way he can more clearly see if I am improving.  The poses are:

Looking stright ahead.

Looking down a bit - enough to show the top of my head.

Looking down to the left a bit (about 45 degrees).

Looking down to the right a bit (about 45 degrees).

From behind while I am looking straight up.

My sister helps me take my own photos every two months using these same poses.






> Right now im taking saw palmetto 2x per day, and putting coconut oil and emu oil on my scalp over night and using nizoral 2 percent three times per week.


 You are using Nizoral too often, especially considering you are using the 2&#37;.  Once per week is plenty when you have the 2% formula.

I've never read anything about the oils you are using.  I have read that Aloe Vera gel with vitamin E is supposed to be helpful - but you don't leave it in over night.  You leave it in for a while then rinse it out.

What I have read about Saw Palmetto is that it should be in a complex form.  Not straight Saw Palmetto.  This is a link from Nature's Bounty.  I've only used this link because I am familiar with the brand.  I do not use the product.  The supposed benefit does not apply to me.  I am quite sure any other band with the same ingredients will do the same thing - if this stuff does anything at all.

http://www.naturesbounty.com/PRODUCT/006052

Ingredients PDF:

http://www.naturesbounty.com/VF/LABELS/L006052-NB.PDF

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## goldbondmafia

> http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/medi...laser-therapy/
> 
> About four years ago, my primary care doctor at the time told me about it when I first asked about treating my hair loss.  I've been using a laser comb ever since.  I don't know if it made any hair grow back but I do know that it made the hair I have stronger and look better.  I definitely saw improvement within the first four to six months.  Low level laser therapy does not work for everyone though.  The only way to find out if it will work for you is to make sure you are a good candidate and try it.  So make sure you are a good candidate for low level laser therapy before you buy a laser comb.  It is expensive, though they do have a less expensive version now...  Just so you know, I was not a good candidate but I was not a bad candidate either.  I bought one anyway and I am very glad I did.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My hair restoration doctor takes my clinical photos in very bright light.  That way he can more clearly see if I am improving.  The poses are:
> ...


 I just saw a hair clinic place today they recommend the laser comb too as well as laser work for my scalp to help thicken and fix damaged hair. I dont know how familair you are with this but is the laser stuff legit? He showed me before and after pictures with his patients and it looked good and said after my treatment i wont start balding again for another 10-15 years (cause obviously it wont be permanent). 

Anyone here have experience with this laser stuff? I may try it even though its around $2500

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## Tracy C

> Anyone here have experience with this laser stuff? I may try it even though its around $2500


 You quoted my whole post - but did you follow any of those links I provided for you and read the information?

$2,500.00 is a lot of money.  Low Level Laser Therapy isn't something that you "finish" after so much time.  It's like Rogaine and Propecia in that you need to keep using it to maintain any benefits gained.  I've never used one of those hood systems.  I've only used the laser comb.  Back when I bought my laser comb it was around $500.00.  They have a less expensive model now.

Low Level Laser Therapy is a legitimate treatment for hair loss but it doesn't work for everyone.  Not everyone is a good candidate for Low Level Laser Therapy.  Before you give $2,500.00 to this clinic, consider buying a laser comb on your own and try it out to see if you respond to Low Level Laser Therapy.  They have a 20 week money back guarantee.  That is plenty of time to determine if Low Level Laser Therapy will work for you.  If it doesn't work for you, send the laser comb back for a refund - and you've just saved yourself from spending an additional $2,500.00.

What do you get for that $2,500.00?  Is the "hair clinic" you went to legit?  What is the name of the doctor who runs the clinic?

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## SBTRKT

Yep - get on finasteride.

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## goldbondmafia

> You quoted my whole post - but did you follow any of those links I provided for you and read the information?
> 
> $2,500.00 is a lot of money.  Low Level Laser Therapy isn't something that you "finish" after so much time.  It's like Rogaine and Propecia in that you need to keep using it to maintain any benefits gained.  I've never used one of those hood systems.  I've only used the laser comb.  Back when I bought my laser comb it was around $500.00.  They have a less expensive model now.
> 
> Low Level Laser Therapy is a legitimate treatment for hair loss but it doesn't work for everyone.  Not everyone is a good candidate for Low Level Laser Therapy.  Before you give $2,500.00 to this clinic, consider buying a laser comb on your own and try it out to see if you respond to Low Level Laser Therapy.  They have a 20 week money back guarantee.  That is plenty of time to determine if Low Level Laser Therapy will work for you.  If it doesn't work for you, send the laser comb back for a refund - and you've just saved yourself from spending an additional $2,500.00.
> 
> What do you get for that $2,500.00?  Is the "hair clinic" you went to legit?  What is the name of the doctor who runs the clinic?


 Yeah I read the information. Here is the website of the place I checked out;

http://advantagelaserclinic.com/

I would be doing a 12 month program. The doctor I spoke with basically told me that it starts off coming in 3 times per week then once a week then later just once a month. You mentioned that its not something you can just stop however after I year and that I have to keep going to maintain? The doctor said after the treatments for a year i shouldnt start balding again for 10ish years but he could be lying there. 

I am going back tomorrow or i will just call them to discuss refunds and stuff like that. I feel the place I went to is legit, the doctor seemed a bit pushy though. The place is located in Yorkville in Toronto so the company definetly has money, only the richest shop and dine in that area so I would assume the doctors there are good. 

Other then the low level laser I do not think the other alternatives are good. Im 20 years old, i dont want to start taking drugs so stop the hair loss i want some regrowth. I have enough money to do this but as you said I have to make sure its a legit place and I feel it is. Of course i am going to look for other places in toronto to compare prices as well. 

I just feel desperate you know i need to do something asap so i dont lose more hair   :Frown:

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## melwou7245

> Yeah I read the information. Here is the website of the place I checked out;
> 
> http://advantagelaserclinic.com/
> 
> I would be doing a 12 month program. The doctor I spoke with basically told me that it starts off coming in 3 times per week then once a week then later just once a month. You mentioned that its not something you can just stop however after I year and that I have to keep going to maintain? The doctor said after the treatments for a year i shouldnt start balding again for 10ish years but he could be lying there. 
> 
> I am going back tomorrow or i will just call them to discuss refunds and stuff like that. I feel the place I went to is legit, the doctor seemed a bit pushy though. The place is located in Yorkville in Toronto so the company definetly has money, only the richest shop and dine in that area so I would assume the doctors there are good. 
> 
> Other then the low level laser I do not think the other alternatives are good. Im 20 years old, i dont want to start taking drugs so stop the hair loss i want some regrowth. I have enough money to do this but as you said I have to make sure its a legit place and I feel it is. Of course i am going to look for other places in toronto to compare prices as well. 
> ...


 First off, congratulations. You made the decision to join a legitimate forum on the web of people all over the world suffering from the same thing as you do and medical professionals who specialize in this field. You've done this shortly after you noticed your balding. Bravo. I wish I had the foresight at 20 as you do. Would've had a hell of a lot more fringe.  

Anyways, pretty much everyone here will recommend you use minoxidil/rogaine 5&#37; because this has shown the most success with males in their early 20s balding from the back (that's you!). So add that to your regime. 

Later, if it's working, you'll experience a shed. This will make you panic. You'll come back and ask if that's normal. Someone will then reassure you it'll only be a few weeks and then you'll start seeing the results you hope for. 

The most controversial factor on this forum is the proscar/finastiride/propecia debate. Some of us (including me) feel it's a dangerous drug which could permanently mess you up in ways you can't imagine (especially since you're only 20), so I would recommend you leave it as a last alternative if the other treatments don't work at all. Others will say you need to do everything you can while you're young and if something untoward happens you can just stop it. As for saw palmetto, I never saw any results and I'm pretty sure it wasn't good for me, so I stopped it after a few fruitless months.

Only other thing I always suggest to people is - use the Niz shampoo only every 3rd or 4th day. More often than that will actually damage your hair. And lastly, add a hair system like Nioxin or (urgh) Nisim. Those will definitely help.

PS - The laser doctor is lying his ass off. Hair loss can't be "delayed" for a few years. It's progressive from puberty and won't stop till the day you stop producing testosterone. Grim I know, but since laser combs are also a big debate concerning their efficacy, I would rather spend my money on other treatments.

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## Tracy C

> The doctor said after the treatments for a year i shouldnt start balding again for 10ish years but he could be lying there.


 The doctor may not be intentionally lying but he likely is mistaken.  Hereditary hair loss is a progressive condition.  You need to keep treating it to prevent it from progressing further.  This does not end.  Even those who have hair transplants will continue losing hair if they do nothing to slow it down or stop it.

I think it would be best to try laser therapy at home first before putting so much money down.  At least with the laser comb, you can get your money back if you don't see improvement within the 20 week money back guarantee period.  If it does work for you and you feel you would benefit from laser therapy with a hood system, then go under the hood at the clinic.  That way you will already have your laser comb to keep up with maintenance treatment for the long haul.

Laser therapy does not work for everyone.  For those it does work, it works well.  For those it doesn't work, it's a complete waste of money.  So it is best to find out if it will work for you before you pay out so much money to a clinic for hood treatments.  






> Other then the low level laser _I do not think the other alternatives are good_.


 It depends on how much hair you have lost.  At only 20 years old, I can't imagine you've lost much.  If laser therapy works for you, I think you will be happy.  Don't forget to also start using Nizoral A-D shampoo.  No hair loss treatment regimen should be without it.  Just don't over use Nizoral.  Once every three or four days is plenty.

I started out with just low level laser therapy for my first six months of treatment.  The laser comb worked for me - and worked well.  I needed more though, so I started using women's Rogaine as well.  I've been using both my laser comb and Minoxidil as well as Nizoral A-D shampoo ever since.  I grew a lot of hair back on this regimen - but that still wasn't enough and it was patchy.  I don't want to be a bald lady and the thin patchy look wasn't working for me, so I had hair transplant surgery.  However even though I have had hair transplant surgery, I keep up with the other treatments so I can keep what I have gained back.

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## Tracy C

> Grim I know, but since laser combs are also a big debate concerning their efficacy, I would rather spend my money on other treatments.


 For those men who have more than moderate hair loss, yes laser therapy is going to be a complete waste of money - but so is Minoxidil at that point...  For some men and women with mild to moderate hair loss, laser therapy can be helpful.  It worked for me.  Unfortunately laser therapy does not work for everyone.  Hairmax has a 20 week money back guarantee.  That is plenty of time to find out if laser therapy will work for a person.  I personally feel it is worth it to at least find out if laser therapy will work for you.  If it does, great.  If it doesn't, take advantage of that money back guarantee and get your money back.

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## goldbondmafia

> Anyways, pretty much everyone here will recommend you use minoxidil/rogaine 5% because this has shown the most success with males in their early 20s balding from the back (that's you!). So add that to your regime. 
> 
> Later, if it's working, you'll experience a shed. This will make you panic. You'll come back and ask if that's normal. Someone will then reassure you it'll only be a few weeks and then you'll start seeing the results you hope for.


 So does everyone on here most likely use the minoxidil/rogaine 5%? Where/how do i get this? 

BTW, my pics are in the first post at the beginning of the thread so take a look for yourself about the back part balding. I feel like my hair all over the top is just started to get thinner including the back, I havent noticed severe shedding i dont think.

I will start using the laser comb as Tracy mentioned probably to see if it works good for me.

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## goldbondmafia

> Laser therapy does not work for everyone.  For those it does work, it works well.  For those it doesn't work, it's a complete waste of money.  So it is best to find out if it will work for you before you pay out so much money to a clinic for hood treatments.  
> 
> It depends on how much hair you have lost.  At only 20 years old, I can't imagine you've lost much.  If laser therapy works for you, I think you will be happy.  Don't forget to also start using Nizoral A-D shampoo.  No hair loss treatment regimen should be without it.  Just don't over use Nizoral.  Once every three or four days is plenty.
> 
> I started out with just low level laser therapy for my first six months of treatment.  The laser comb worked for me - and worked well.  I needed more though, so I started using women's Rogaine as well.  I've been using both my laser comb and Minoxidil as well as Nizoral A-D shampoo ever since.  I grew a lot of hair back on this regimen - but that still wasn't enough and it was patchy.  I don't want to be a bald lady and the thin patchy look wasn't working for me, so I had hair transplant surgery.  However even though I have had hair transplant surgery, I keep up with the other treatments so I can keep what I have gained back.


 Tracy, what is the difference between Nizoral 2% and Nizoral A-D shampoo? Im using the 2% now. If the laser comb works well for me and i decide to do laser therapy should I also still use minoxidil and Niz?

But yeah at 20 my hair loss isnt too significant more thinning then anything but it makes me sick to my stomach to even think about this, let alone see pictures of my hair close up .

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## Tracy C

> So does everyone on here most likely use the minoxidil/rogaine 5%? Where/how do i get this?


 Rogaine and generic Minoxidil are available in most pharmacies and many other retail stores.  You do not need a prescription for it.  Judging from your pics, I do think you would benefit from Minoxidil as well.

I use men's Rogaine foam (5% Minoxidil) in the morning because it is more "stealth" and it makes styling my hair in the morning easier.  Then I use generic women's 2% Minoxidil liquid in the evening.  Rogaine does not offer the foam in the women's 2% formula.

If you chose to use Rogaine or generic Minoxidil, I would recommend using men's Rogaine foam in the morning and generic men's 5% Minoxidil liquid in the evening.  This will save you a little bit of money.

Also, please make sure to read and understand the information that comes with the medicine.  Make sure you are aware and understand about shedding - and that shedding is a normal part of the process of treating hair loss.  It freaks people out.  Don't get freaked out by it.  It is normal.  Every treatment for hair loss that actually works causes temporary shedding.  Shedding is an indication that the treatment is working.  The shedding stops when the miniaturized hair follicles have returned to close to normal size.  The hair grows back.  Ride it out.






> Tracy, what is the difference between Nizoral 2% and Nizoral A-D shampoo? Im using the 2% now


 Nizoral A-D is the over the counter 1% version of Nizoral.  I did not know you are already using Nizoral 2%.  Now that I do know that, what I said about not over using it still applies but even more so with the 2% version.  Since you are using the 2% version, you should only use it once per week unless a doctor has specifically directed you to use it more often.






> If the laser comb works well for me and i decide to do laser therapy should I also still use minoxidil and Niz?


 I would if I were you.

I know it is not my place to talk about Finasteride (Propecia) but you might want to talk to your doctor about it.  If the possibility of side effects scares you, give a quality Saw Palmetto complex a try.  Nature's Bounty makes one.  I am sure other companies make a comparable product.  Here are a couple of links to the product Nature's Bounty offers.  One of the links is to the PDF file of the label showing the ingredients so you can use that to find similar products that might cost less.  As is the case with Finasteride, it will take 12 full months of using it as directed before you will know if it is working for you or not.

http://www.naturesbounty.com/PRODUCT/006052

http://www.naturesbounty.com/VF/LABELS/L006052-NB.PDF


I use Nature's Bounty's "Hair, Skin and Nails" multi-vitamin formula.  I don't know if it actually helps or not - but I keep taking it anyways just in case it does.

http://www.naturesbounty.com/PRODUCT/007580

http://www.naturesbounty.com/VF/LABELS/L007580-NB.PDF

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## goldbondmafia

> Rogaine and generic Minoxidil are available in most pharmacies and many other retail stores.  You do not need a prescription for it.  Judging from your pics, I do think you would benefit from Minoxidil as well.
> 
> I use men's Rogaine foam (5&#37; Minoxidil) in the morning because it is more "stealth" and it makes styling my hair in the morning easier.  Then I use generic women's 2% Minoxidil liquid in the evening.  Rogaine does not offer the foam in the women's 2% formula.
> 
> If you chose to use Rogaine or generic Minoxidil, I would recommend using men's Rogaine foam in the morning and generic men's 5% Minoxidil liquid in the evening.  This will save you a little bit of money.
> 
> Also, please make sure to read and understand the information that comes with the medicine.  Make sure you are aware and understand about shedding - and that shedding is a normal part of the process of treating hair loss.  It freaks people out.  Don't get freaked out by it.  It is normal.  Every treatment for hair loss that actually works causes temporary shedding.  Shedding is an indication that the treatment is working.  The shedding stops when the miniaturized hair follicles have returned to close to normal size.  The hair grows back.  Ride it out.
> 
> 
> ...


 Hey thank you for your quick replies. Just wondering but do you have your own personal before and after pictures? 

As far as rogaine and mino go, what happens if I use it, shed, regrow some damaged hair follicales and then stop using it say 2 years from now. Will my hair start shedding then? i just feel like if i use moni and rogaine and once i stop i will quickly lose hair

Also you apply the stuff in morning and night correct.. do you apply it and leave it in the whole day, 7 days per week? Generally ill wake up, shower then should i dry my hair and put the stuff in? then at night after school i usually lift weights then shower before bed so ill put it in again then i assume on wet or dry scalp.

Or am I supposed to put it in then wash it out say an hour after?

Also if there is stronger roagine or mino i would be willing to pay extra bucks for the best stuff out there.

In terms of propecia i do not want to try it im way too scared and do not think its neccessary for me right now. As far as the saw palmetto i am taking organikas saw palmetto , not sure how much it compares to the one you provided me with but ill research into that more. It also helps for prostate which my grandfather had so i will for sure take it monthly!

The one thing i hate about hair loss personally is the fact i have extremely high testosterone levels which works against my hair growth and the fact im obsessed with working out 4-5 days a week creates more testosterone. atleast ill never need viagra i guess

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## Tracy C

> Just wondering but do you have your own personal before and after pictures?


 I take pictures every two months to track my progress.  I am sorry but I am not comfortable posting pictures of myself on the internet.  However, I highly recommend you track your progress with a photo diary as well.  I described the poses you need on the first page of this thread.






> As far as rogaine and mino go, what happens if I use it, shed, regrow some damaged hair follicales and then stop using it say 2 years from now. Will my hair start shedding then? i just feel like if i use moni and rogaine and once i stop i will quickly lose hair.


 Hereditary hair loss is progressive.  If you stop any treatment for hair loss, you will lose any and all benefits of that treatment.  Yes you will start losing your hair again.  I do not know how quickly or slowly that happens.






> Also you apply the stuff in morning and night correct.. do you apply it and leave it in the whole day, 7 days per week? Generally ill wake up, shower then should i dry my hair and put the stuff in? then at night after school i usually lift weights then shower before bed so ill put it in again then i assume on wet or dry scalp.


 Yes, you apply it morning and night and leave it in all day and all night.

I take a shower in the morning and another after my evening workout.  I put both my morning and evening doses in while my hair is "towel dry damp"...  In the morning I also use other products as I pretty up my hair for the day - but the Rogaine foam goes in first, then my leave-in treatment, then I blow dry (on lowest setting) and style my hair, then hair spray.  In the evening I just put the liquid Minoxidil in after I towel dry my hair and let it air dry till bedtime.






> Also if there is stronger roagine or mino i would be willing to pay extra bucks for the best stuff out there.


 5% is the strongest approved formula.  Stronger formulas increase your chances of experiening negative side effects.






> The one thing i hate about hair loss personally is the fact i have extremely high testosterone levels which works against my hair growth and the fact im obsessed with working out 4-5 days a week creates more testosterone. atleast ill never need viagra i guess


 Mix up your work outs.  You need to have variety in your work outs anyways.  Do weight bearing one day, cycling another day, skating another day, yoga another day etc.

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## melwou7245

Bud, changing your lifestyle to try and lessen your hair loss is a fool's errand. Most people argue that being fit means you'll have better circulation on your scalp, which will lead to the treatments being more effective. 

The only exception to this is juicing. The damage done with that is very, very extensive. Even worse you don't even realize it until a few weeks afterwards. 

All I can say is - get 5&#37; minoxidil, Niz shampoo and a decent shampoo/conditioner. That's it. No need to break the bank. Use that for at least 6 months and gauge if you improved. If not, add other treatments. Leave the pills for last, because I promise you it will throw your hormones out of whack.

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## goldbondmafia

> I take pictures every two months to track my progress.  I am sorry but I am not comfortable posting pictures of myself on the internet.  However, I highly recommend you track your progress with a photo diary as well.  I described the poses you need on the first page of this thread.


 I completely understand, I was too scared as well until last week when I wanted to see what people on here thought of my hair situation. I will definitely take pictures though! 




> Hereditary hair loss is progressive.  If you stop any treatment for hair loss, you will lose any and all benefits of that treatment.  Yes you will start losing your hair again.  I do not know how quickly or slowly that happens.


 I guess that was a dumb question to ask on my part, definitely makes sense that if you stop anything it will get worse from there. 




> Yes, you apply it morning and night and leave it in all day and all night.
> 
> I take a shower in the morning and another after my evening workout.  I put both my morning and evening doses in while my hair is "towel dry damp"...  In the morning I also use other products as I pretty up my hair for the day - but the Rogaine foam goes in first, then my leave-in treatment, then I blow dry (on lowest setting) and style my hair, then hair spray.  In the evening I just put the liquid Minoxidil in after I towel dry my hair and let it air dry till bedtime..


 Okay sounds good, after the Rogaine you have a leave in treatment though? I thought it was just rogaine in morning then mino in the evening? Will this stuff make my hair look greasy or anything like that when I leave the rogaine foam during the day?




> 5&#37; is the strongest approved formula.  Stronger formulas increase your chances of experiening negative side effects.


 Okay thank you, I will look into this more before I decide on which formula to purchase.

And also Tracy if you have some spare time take a look at this (I was using this guys regiment)

http://www.datbtrue.co.uk/forums/index.php

You have to sign up on the forum and they will send you a confirmation to your email (mine ended up in junk mail. If you go to the Herbal and Alternative Health Treatment section the first topic sticky’d at the top of the page is “hair is growing back that hasn’t in five year” by oldwood. Basically he uses;

Saw palmetto – 2 pills per day
Nizoral 2% - 2-3 times per week
Coconut oil – applies to his scalp nightly
Emu oil – applies to his scalp nightly (and hairline) 

This guy had his hair thinning out on his head and a receded hairline which in months he brought back to normal and thicker than ever. I was using the same regiment as him since mid-September, almost a month now because I was amazed at what he had done. Take a look for yourself and let me know what you think. Only difference is he shaved his head bald, I did not. The thread is long so his progress pictures are on pages; 2, 3, 12, and 28, you have to admit its pretty incredible.

----------


## goldbondmafia

> Bud, changing your lifestyle to try and lessen your hair loss is a fool's errand. Most people argue that being fit means you'll have better circulation on your scalp, which will lead to the treatments being more effective. 
> 
> The only exception to this is juicing. The damage done with that is very, very extensive. Even worse you don't even realize it until a few weeks afterwards. 
> 
> All I can say is - get 5% minoxidil, Niz shampoo and a decent shampoo/conditioner. That's it. No need to break the bank. Use that for at least 6 months and gauge if you improved. If not, add other treatments. Leave the pills for last, because I promise you it will throw your hormones out of whack.


 Of course juicing is the worst thing you can do. People that use hgh, testosterone boosters, and even hormone supps are basically asking to lose hair. I dont use steroids or anything other then drink a protein shake once per day (which i think everyone should do but thats another story). My problem lies from lifting weights because it creates more testosterone in the body, i dont want to slow down lifting weights but i do not want to go bald either. Doing cardio exercises or sports does not create as much test in the human body

Im already using niz 2% and i also have head and shoulders zinc shampoo/conditioner in 1 bottle. But ye i dont plan on using any pills or drugs im only 20 i dont want to permanently f myself up.

----------


## Tracy C

> Okay sounds good, after the Rogaine you have a leave in treatment though? I thought it was just rogaine in morning then mino in the evening? Will this stuff make my hair look greasy or anything like that when I leave the rogaine foam during the day?


 Just so you know and to prevent possible confusion, Rogaine foam is Minoxidil, just the name brand version of it - and in a different form, foam instead of liquid.  Rogaine foam is very stealth.  No one can tell it is on your scalp.  Liquid Rogaine (and generic liquid Minoxidil) shows until it is dry - and it takes too long to dry for morning convenience.  Many women use men's Rogaine foam in the morning for that very reason.

I use a leave-in treatment to protect my hair from the heat of my styling tools; hair dryer, curling iron and straitening iron.  Since my hair is long, the leave-in treatment also prevents fly-aways.  It has nothing to do with Rogaine.  It's because I have long hair and I like it to look as pretty as I can.






> If you go to the Herbal and Alternative Health Treatment section the first topic sticky’d at the top of the page is “hair is growing back that hasn’t in five year” by oldwood. Basically he uses;
> 
> Saw palmetto – 2 pills per day
> Nizoral 2&#37; - 2-3 times per week
> Coconut oil – applies to his scalp nightly
> Emu oil – applies to his scalp nightly (and hairline) 
> 
> This guy had his hair thinning out on his head and a receded hairline which in months he brought back to normal and thicker than ever.


 Honestly, that is not very realistic.  Though I suppose some people might get lucky - if they catch hair loss in time and start doing something about it right away.  Hair follicles that have gone dormant can stay that way for a number of years before they die.  I don't know how many years that is - but it probably depends on the persons genetics.  Anyways, dormant hair follicles can be re-started with stimulation.  Dead follicles can never again grow hair.  Maybe he got really lucky and caught it while the weakened follicles were still only dormant but had not yet died.

I need to repeat what I said about the frequency of using Nizoral.  Nizoral is great, but it can damage your hair if you use it too often.  The 2% should not be used more often than once per week unless a doctor has specifically directed you to use it more often than that.  The 1% "A-D" version can be used every three to four days without causing damage.  You should also use a good quality moisturizing conditioner when you use Nizoral.  Nizoral can also dry your hair out.  It is a good idea to condition every day.

I had never heard about using coconut or emu oil before this thread.  I have heard about massaging Aloe Vera gel with vitamin E into your scalp - but you don't leave that in for long.  I actually do this myself before my evening shower.  I don't know if it actually helps - but I do like how it feels to massage my scalp.  Fruit of the Earth makes an Aloe Vera gel with vitamin E mixed in.  I just water it down so it can be sprayed out of a spray bottle and use it that way.  Otherwise it's just too thick to massage with.

----------


## 1Aristotle

> Im already using niz 2% and i also have head and shoulders zinc shampoo/conditioner in 1 bottle. But ye i dont plan on using any pills or drugs im only 20 i dont want to permanently f myself up.


 Hey bud, here's my personal advice influenced my own hairloss story. 3 Years ago my hair started thinning in the crown around the swirl, much like you are right now in the pictures you've posted. I was 23. I didn't do anything for a year, hoping that it won't advance, or progress. Hoping im not like the others who are balding or are completely bald ... simply because I wasn't at that stage. In other words, I was acknowledging that there is a change in the thickness of my crown and yes I knew i was balding ... yet i was still in denial ... because it wasn't THAT pronounced at the time ... and thus no one would notice. Try and guess what happened?

A year later my hair got thinner in the crown, to the point where I couldn't fool myself anymore (mind you, no one else actually noticed, including my gf of 3 years, my friends and family to this day) but I did. You must know what im talking about since you're facing the same situation as it seems. So here's what I did after wasting 1 year, alienating myself with useless natural hairloss remedies such as natural oil scalp massages, shampoos, etc.....that show no results except make you feel better while you're actually loosing more hair.

I finally went to see my family doctor and a world renowned hair transplant surgeon ... both of which prescribed me Propecia .... But I didn't take it ... hoping for other less invasive alternatives, as I was worried about the side effects everyone raves about.


Got on Rogaine 2% x 2, 1 pill of organic Multivitamins and 1 pill of MSM 1000 and Nizoral %2 every second day, mg and massaged my head daily for 5 minutes daily ... I shed for a month, and shaved my head to make the application of Rogaine easier. Then my hair stopped falling out completely.

The result. 8 Months later I had the dark thick hair and full crown I had when I was 16 (kept my head shaved for about 6 months). It was as if a miracle happened indeed. No spot of baldness whatsoever ... and without the use of Propecia.


I quickly got used to it ... it was as if i was never lost any hair. I felt incredible, didn't think about it anymore ... I felt like i cured and beat MPB. I was an ignorant fool. My hair started falling out again 1-2 months after noticing how great it was. I thought it was just a periodical shed, as my head was full with thick hair and no signs of balding. I grew my hair long for almost a year ... sported a great haircut, while the shed continued. About a month it finally stopped, luckily .... but at the same time, ive noticed how thin my crown has gotten. It's practically to where I started. The rest of the hair is still good and i believe, better than before I started the "regime".

Today I've finally went back to my doctor and got the prescription for Propecia. I'm about to finally do something I should have done a year and half ago, when I noticed i have regained all my hair back and I have a full head of great hair that I should try to preserve as best as I possibly can. 

Chances are I would still have the hair I did just over a year ago if I was on Propecia (given it worked for me with no serious side effects). 




SO as a final thought and wrap up to my personal story, what I'm trying to say is ... when you will look at yourself in the mirror, and notice a big bald nice clean spot at the top of your crown, you'll be MUCH more willing and MOST likely to get on Propecia and do ANYTHING possible to save your hair .... BUUUUUUUUT, BIG BUT, it will be too late to get all your back. Thus, at that point, you will be taking the risk of being on Propecia, and risk all the possible side effects, while the possible gains from the drug will be next to ZERO ( as you will most likely just maintain what you already have and you are not happy with). 


SO, again, for your hair's sake .... make the choice of being on Propecia, or not EVER being on Propecia now, while you still have hair to keep. After it's gone, you'll be taking Propecia just for fun.


I told myself I'll wait a year to see what happens. I got all my hair back. So i said **** Propecia ... wish I didn't as I will be getting on it at the end of this month anyway, so really... no difference. The end result is the same. I'm getting on it ... except I have less hair.


I'll once again expect something next to a miracle and full crown as It has happened in the past. People still cant tell im balding and would tell me I'm crazy when I tell them (except fam and doctors) .... What can I say, It's not that advanced yet and I'm good with styling my hair. 




Now that you have my story, and know where I am and coming from in terms of hair ..... here's my own personal recipe for success as a summary.

Rogaine 5% (2% worked miracles for me somehow - make what you want out of it)

Nizoral 2% (every 2-3 day )

MSM 1000 mg daily

Multivitamin Complex

Massage scalp



And wish I already have tried Propecia ... but that's changing starting next month.


PS. I didn't try Propecia because I was scared of the side effects, and risked losing my hair. Now that i've lost part of it, I'm more scared of losing more hair than I am of the POSSIBLE side effects. All doctors prescribe it, I've seen incredible growth results and success stories from people who have been on it. Some swear by eat after being on it for 15-20 years and claiming it has maintained their since they first started balding at ages as young as 20.


I hope it works and there are no side effects. I hope it does the same for you if you decide to get on it, and I hope you find a solution to your MPB. This is my advice based on my own personal experience, success and failures, and research. Whatever you make out of it and whatever patch you choose to go is up to you. But know that time is hair, and emu oils, and essential oil scalp massages will just distract you from curing the problem. It's like you doing nothing, but pretending. If you are going to do nothing about your MPB, then start getting used to the idea that you will be bald in the near future and learn how to be ok with that. Otherwise, take action ... you've got tons of hair left to fight for ;-) Good luck

----------


## 1Aristotle

and to avoid future criticism ... I'm not here to debate any of the approaches I've taken to fight MPB. I don't believe they are a universal cure for all, in fact, far from it. Neither do I believe I've done everything the "right" way or that some of these methods are guaranteed to yield results. I just wanted to share my story ... and make a point, which to restate and better rephrase myself is ... ....


Do all you can to save the hair you have while it's there, because it will be next to impossible to get it back when it will be gone, despite your despair and willingness to try just about anything at that stage.

----------


## goldbondmafia

> Just so you know and to prevent possible confusion, Rogaine foam is Minoxidil, just the name brand version of it - and in a different form, foam instead of liquid.  Rogaine foam is very stealth.  No one can tell it is on your scalp.  Liquid Rogaine (and generic liquid Minoxidil) shows until it is dry - and it takes too long to dry for morning convenience.  Many women use men's Rogaine foam in the morning for that very reason.
> 
> I use a leave-in treatment to protect my hair from the heat of my styling tools; hair dryer, curling iron and straitening iron.  Since my hair is long, the leave-in treatment also prevents fly-aways.  It has nothing to do with Rogaine.  It's because I have long hair and I like it to look as pretty as I can.


 Ok I understand what your saying now thank you for clearing that up for me I was a bit confused  :Smile: 





> Honestly, that is not very realistic.  Though I suppose some people might get lucky - if they catch hair loss in time and start doing something about it right away.  Hair follicles that have gone dormant can stay that way for a number of years before they die.  I don't know how many years that is - but it probably depends on the persons genetics.  Anyways, dormant hair follicles can be re-started with stimulation.  Dead follicles can never again grow hair.  Maybe he got really lucky and caught it while the weakened follicles were still only dormant but had not yet died.
> 
> I need to repeat what I said about the frequency of using Nizoral.  Nizoral is great, but it can damage your hair if you use it too often.  The 2&#37; should not be used more often than once per week unless a doctor has specifically directed you to use it more often than that.  The 1% "A-D" version can be used every three to four days without causing damage.  You should also use a good quality moisturizing conditioner when you use Nizoral.  Nizoral can also dry your hair out.  It is a good idea to condition every day.
> 
> I had never heard about using coconut or emu oil before this thread.  I have heard about massaging Aloe Vera gel with vitamin E into your scalp - but you don't leave that in for long.  I actually do this myself before my evening shower.  I don't know if it actually helps - but I do like how it feels to massage my scalp.  Fruit of the Earth makes an Aloe Vera gel with vitamin E mixed in.  I just water it down so it can be sprayed out of a spray bottle and use it that way.  Otherwise it's just too thick to massage with.


 Thats what I am starting to believe too that he just got really lucky and it worked well for him too. I was very impressed with the hair he got though and the fact he brought some of his hairline back, just wanted to see your opinion on the matter.

I also heard the aloe vera and or vitamin E is great for your hair so I dont think it will hurt adding that to my regiment as well, ive heard many people using it.

As far as the Nizoral 2% usage, I used it 2 per week - Mondays and Thursdays because ive always had a dry and now itchy scalp. I can always bring it down to once per week like you recommend tho

I will talk to my doctor as well but after speaking with you and using your info Ill start using;

Morning

1. Shower with Head and shoulders Zinc shampoo/conditioner in 1 (mondays and thursdays nizoral then rinse in out with the Head and shoulders shampoo/conditioner combo right after)
2. Apply (2 or 5% i have to decide still) Rogaine foam after dried/damp hair

Night
1. Aloe vera with Vit E oil on scalp before shower for maybe 15-20 mins
2. wash it out with shampoo/conditioner?
3. apply liquid mino before bed

If anything i could not wash my hair in the morning and just do it at night? Sorry ive always been very specific with regiments

----------


## goldbondmafia

> Hey bud, here's my personal advice influenced my own hairloss story. 3 Years ago my hair started thinning in the crown around the swirl, much like you are right now in the pictures you've posted. I was 23. I didn't do anything for a year, hoping that it won't advance, or progress. Hoping im not like the others who are balding or are completely bald ... simply because I wasn't at that stage. In other words, I was acknowledging that there is a change in the thickness of my crown and yes I knew i was balding ... yet i was still in denial ... because it wasn't THAT pronounced at the time ... and thus no one would notice. Try and guess what happened?
> 
> A year later my hair got thinner in the crown, to the point where I couldn't fool myself anymore (mind you, no one else actually noticed, including my gf of 3 years, my friends and family to this day) but I did. You must know what im talking about since you're facing the same situation as it seems. So here's what I did after wasting 1 year, alienating myself with useless natural hairloss remedies such as natural oil scalp massages, shampoos, etc.....that show no results except make you feel better while you're actually loosing more hair.
> 
> I finally went to see my family doctor and a world renowned hair transplant surgeon ... both of which prescribed me Propecia .... But I didn't take it ... hoping for other less invasive alternatives, as I was worried about the side effects everyone raves about.
> 
> Got on Rogaine 2% x 2, 1 pill of organic Multivitamins and 1 pill of MSM 1000 and Nizoral %2 every second day, mg and massaged my head daily for 5 minutes daily ... I shed for a month, and shaved my head to make the application of Rogaine easier. Then my hair stopped falling out completely.
> 
> The result. 8 Months later I had the dark thick hair and full crown I had when I was 16 (kept my head shaved for about 6 months). It was as if a miracle happened indeed. No spot of baldness whatsoever ... and without the use of Propecia.


 Thats pretty incredible story yourself though. Did you shave your head for 6 months completely of just a 3 or 4 buzzed cut? I was planning on doing the same when I had the natural oils stuck in my mind as an alternative lol i will be changing that routine up for sure. I will definetly be using the rogaine now instead of any other alternative to see how it goes.

Im assuming you also applied once in the morning and once before bed like Tracy did? Also do you have pictures that you would be willing to share?





> I quickly got used to it ... it was as if i was never lost any hair. I felt incredible, didn't think about it anymore ... I felt like i cured and beat MPB. I was an ignorant fool. My hair started falling out again 1-2 months after noticing how great it was. I thought it was just a periodical shed, as my head was full with thick hair and no signs of balding. I grew my hair long for almost a year ... sported a great haircut, while the shed continued. About a month it finally stopped, luckily .... but at the same time, ive noticed how thin my crown has gotten. It's practically to where I started. The rest of the hair is still good and i believe, better than before I started the "regime".
> 
> Today I've finally went back to my doctor and got the prescription for Propecia. I'm about to finally do something I should have done a year and half ago, when I noticed i have regained all my hair back and I have a full head of great hair that I should try to preserve as best as I possibly can. 
> 
> Chances are I would still have the hair I did just over a year ago if I was on Propecia (given it worked for me with no serious side effects). 
> 
> SO as a final thought and wrap up to my personal story, what I'm trying to say is ... when you will look at yourself in the mirror, and notice a big bald nice clean spot at the top of your crown, you'll be MUCH more willing and MOST likely to get on Propecia and do ANYTHING possible to save your hair .... BUUUUUUUUT, BIG BUT, it will be too late to get all your back. Thus, at that point, you will be taking the risk of being on Propecia, and risk all the possible side effects, while the possible gains from the drug will be next to ZERO ( as you will most likely just maintain what you already have and you are not happy with). 
> 
> SO, again, for your hair's sake .... make the choice of being on Propecia, or not EVER being on Propecia now, while you still have hair to keep. After it's gone, you'll be taking Propecia just for fun.
> ...


 Im a bit confused about this section. When you say that you gained a nice thick head of hair after using the rogaine the first time you said you started to feel like you were cured and beat MPB. At this point when you thought you beat baldness because you had a nice head of hair did you stop using the rogaine regiment??? Is that why your hair began to shed because you said **** it I have nice hair im done with the regiment? 

OR are you saying that at the peak of your hair and its thickness you just wish you started the propecia to preserve your hair? Cause i thought if you continue using the rogaine it would preserve it unless you stopped after the first 8 months of your hair regrowth. 

Also when you started shedding did the rogaine and you old forumla (quoted below ) become useless for you somehow?




> PS. I didn't try Propecia because I was scared of the side effects, and risked losing my hair. Now that i've lost part of it, I'm more scared of losing more hair than I am of the POSSIBLE side effects. All doctors prescribe it, I've seen incredible growth results and success stories from people who have been on it. Some swear by eat after being on it for 15-20 years and claiming it has maintained their since they first started balding at ages as young as 20.
> 
> I hope it works and there are no side effects. I hope it does the same for you if you decide to get on it, and I hope you find a solution to your MPB. This is my advice based on my own personal experience, success and failures, and research. Whatever you make out of it and whatever patch you choose to go is up to you. But know that time is hair, and emu oils, and essential oil scalp massages will just distract you from curing the problem. It's like you doing nothing, but pretending. If you are going to do nothing about your MPB, then start getting used to the idea that you will be bald in the near future and learn how to be ok with that. Otherwise, take action ... you've got tons of hair left to fight for ;-) Good luck


 
I understand your current situation of using the propecia now to further lose more hair. I personally will try to use the rogaine/mino first like you did to get my hair back to a nice thickness without the propecia for now. If my hair goes back to 95% thickness or best it can I hope by applying rogaine daily or even 6 days per week it will maintain my hair

I dont want to get a full head of thick hair then the rogaine to stop working (if thats what happened to you). if that does happen to me and i notice anything i would be willing to try propecia. 

As soon as I started thinning out at the top of my head i started using the useless oils, now that my crown is starting im going to get the rogaine/mino like tracey and yourself recommended. 

And thank you so much for you post i really appreciate it and hope the propecia works well for you, chances are it will with your luck it will work great.

----------


## Tracy C

> If anything i could not wash my hair in the morning and just do it at night? Sorry ive always been very specific with regiments


 I only wash my hair in the evening.  In my morning shower I just wet my hair down to cure pillow hair.  It's also easier for me to massage Rogaine foam or liquid Minoxidil into my scalp when my hair is towel dry damp.

I work out right after work, so when I get home from my workout I massage my scalp with Aloe Vera Gel that has vitamin E mixed in.  Then I eat my dinner.  I take my evening shower and wash my hair after dinner, then massage liquid Minoxidil into my scalp.  I use my laser comb on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, so on those days I massage liquid Monixidil in after I laser my scalp.

The only medicated shampoo I use is Nizoral A-D.  My regular daily shampoo is Aveeno "Nourish & Moisturize" shampoo.

If your doctor told you to use Nizoral 2&#37; twice per week when he or she gave you the prescription, you should probably do what your doctor says.  Otherwise, once per week is enough.

----------


## goldbondmafia

> I only wash my hair in the evening.  In my morning shower I just wet my hair down to cure pillow hair.  It's also easier for me to massage Rogaine foam or liquid Minoxidil into my scalp when my hair is towel dry damp.
> 
> I work out right after work, so when I get home from my workout I massage my scalp with Aloe Vera Gel that has vitamin E mixed in.  Then I eat my dinner.  I take my evening shower and wash my hair after dinner, then massage liquid Minoxidil into my scalp.  I use my laser comb on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, so on those days I massage liquid Monixidil in after I laser my scalp.
> 
> The only medicated shampoo I use is Nizoral A-D.  My regular daily shampoo is Aveeno "Nourish & Moisturize" shampoo.
> 
> If your doctor told you to use Nizoral 2% twice per week when he or she gave you the prescription, you should probably do what your doctor says.  Otherwise, once per week is enough.


 Thanks for the response Tracy. My Nizoral 2% was purchased over the counter, its not prescribed in Canada I can buy it almost anywhere, atleast here in Ontario. Last year when my hair started thinning (around Jan-Feb) i also noticed i had terrible and i mean terrible dandruff. If i put my hands through my hair fast white flakes where EVERYWHERE. It must have been the cold weather here in Canada or just me not using proper shampoo/conditioner and keeping my head warm.

Also Artistotle I sent you a PM

----------


## goldbondmafia

Sorry Tracy, did your doctor discuss potential effects of using the laser therapy, even the laser comb on your brain or is it completely safe?

----------


## Tracy C

No need to say you are sorry.  I did ask the doctor about that.  The safety of the laser comb was determined during the trials that lead to FDA clearance.

I have been using my laser comb as directed for four years.  If it were causing any kind of problem, I would likely know it by now.

----------


## goldbondmafia

> No need to say you are sorry.  I did ask the doctor about that.  The safety of the laser comb was determined during the trials that lead to FDA clearance.
> 
> I have been using my laser comb as directed for four years.  If it were causing any kind of problem, I would likely know it by now.


 Okay sounds good that was one thing that worried me. Im going to be trying rogaine and mino (basically your routine) along with the laser comb for now. Im going to be taking pictures and updating starting next monday when i shave my head.

I really hope rogaine works and if it does then it works forever  :Frown:

----------


## goldbondmafia

So Tracy I am seeing my doctor again tomorrow to grab a laser comb, on top of that I am getting;

-Mens Rogaine foam 5&#37; (for mornings)
-Generic liquid minoxidil for men (for evenings), should i get 2 or 5%?
-Aveeno nourish and moisturizer shampoo
-Aloe vera with Vit E
-Laser Comb
-And which conditioner would you recommend?

Ill also be conditioning my hair every night after shampoo and using nizoral only on wednesdays. I may not shampoo saturdays or sundays but i will use conditioner probably just to keep my hair properly maintained.

I heard its bad to shampoo everyday but if i use a shampoo like aveeno nourish and moisturizer 5 days a week would be okay i hope. I dont want my hair to lose natural oils so do you think monday - friday, even saturday shampoo is okay as long as i conditioner right after? then have sundays off from any hair washing product?

----------


## Tracy C

Since you are male, get the 5% men's generic Minoxidil.

I use Aveeno "Nourish + Moisturize" conditioner as well as the matching shampoo.  These products are safe to use every day if you want.  Almost any brand of conditioner can be used every day.  I do try to give my hair a break from shampoo though whenever I can.

----------


## gh05

Dr Rassman of balding blog states that in his opinion the laser therapy doesn't work for hair loss at all.  I admit that I am also very sceptical - i went to a hair clinic this week to have my hair loss confirmed but the laser therapy just seemed like an expensive selling point.  There is no proof that it works at all.

----------


## Tracy C

> Dr Rassman of balding blog states that in his opinion the laser therapy doesn't work for hair loss at all.


 Dr. Rasman is not the only doctor who insists that low level laser therapy does not work at all.  Just because these people are doctors doesn't mean they know everything - nor does it mean that anything they say is gospel...  There are just as many doctors who feel low level laser therapy does help some people in some way.  I have actually been using the laser comb for four years.  I know what it does.  I know from my own first hand experience that it does do something appreciable and beneficial for some people.  So it does not matter to me if one doctor or another says it can't work...  I know better.






> There is no proof that it works at all.


 That is not true.  The efficacy has been proven in clinical studies that lead to FDA clearance - more than once.  A common misconception is that the FDA clearance is just for safety only.  That is not true.  The manufacturer also had to prove efficacy to get the clearance.

----------


## goldbondmafia

Hey Tracy hope your having a great start to your weekend!!!

So again I made the list of stuff I should purchase which your recommended;

-Aloe vera with Vit E
-Mens Rogaine foam 5&#37;
-Generic liquid minoxidil 5%
-Aveeno nourish and moisturizer shampoo and conditioner
-laser hair comb

As I said im shaving my head or getting a short cut Sunday (and taking pics) and then starting my treatment on Monday. Yesterday i was searching online for the Hair Club as my dad mentioned them, (he was going to be one of their toronto lawyers when they were starting up in the 1980s) so I checked out their website and got a free consultation just to check the place out for shiits and see what they had to say. 

They took pictures of my crown and its definetly starting to thin, they said to put me on a 6 month program (for 2 grand) where they would give me;

-free laser hair comb and 6 month supplies of;
-Moisturizing/revitalizing cleanser
-extreme scalp cleanser spray
-energizing conditioner
-vitamins which have Vit B3, D, E, and biotin and herbal remedies such as saw palmetto
-and finally 5% minoxidil 

And on top of that I go into to see them once per month to get photos re taken and laser treatment and scalp massages. 

Im not sure if $2k is worth joining mens hair club as I can buy these shampoos, conditioners, minoxidil elsewhere (for probably cheaper) and i already take the proper vitamins. Only thing that appeals to me is the free laser comb because my mother wants one for the house as she wants to use it. So she would pay for that so id have to cover $1500.

I was also suprised that they have did not mention nizoral at all because i feel it is a key part of hair regrowth/maintenance. 

Other than the laser comb part, I felt good being there because i like how they want to track my progress and i can call my consultant whenever i want to ask her questions or anything or come in to see them. I checked out reviews on them and people generally do not like them because a lot of people try to fix their baldness when its too late and expect great results, luckly my hair is still very good (as u saw on first page) compared to those people with many many dead hair follicles so i know if i went with them i would get my thickness back.

When you were going through your hair loss did you go to a club similar to them just to get information/ track progress or did you just go out and buy everything yourself after your transplant? 

btw heres the link to the treatment they offered me;
http://www.hairclub.com/new/extreme-hair-therapy.php

----------


## Tracy C

You do not need to give the Hair Club your money, most people don't.  The only thing really different about what they are offering over what you can do on your own is the higher price you will be paying them.

The regimen you have spelled out is fine.  You do not need the hair club.

If you want, you can add a couple of suppliments that are basically the same thing the hair club is trying to sell you.  You can get them for much less money on your own.  Here in the U.S., they are often on sale "buy one get one free" at CVS.

http://www.naturesbounty.com/PRODUCT/006052

http://www.naturesbounty.com/VF/LABELS/L006052-NB.PDF

http://www.naturesbounty.com/PRODUCT/007580

http://www.naturesbounty.com/VF/LABELS/L007580-NB.PDF

Also, if you buy your laser comb directly from Hairmax, you get the 20 week money back guarantee.  I don't know if hair club honors the same guarantee, even though it is probably the exact same product.

With both Hair Club and Bosely, a very large portion of what you pay them is for their own marketing.  These two companies are very visible because they spend so much money on marketing.  They spend more money on marketing than they spend actually helping their clients.  Think about that.

----------


## goldbondmafia

> http://www.naturesbounty.com/PRODUCT/006052
> 
> http://www.naturesbounty.com/VF/LABELS/L006052-NB.PDF
> 
> http://www.naturesbounty.com/PRODUCT/007580
> 
> http://www.naturesbounty.com/VF/LABELS/L007580-NB.PDF
> 
> Also, if you buy your laser comb directly from Hairmax, you get the 20 week money back guarantee.  I don't know if hair club honors the same guarantee, even though it is probably the exact same product.
> ...


 Ill call hair club back tomorrow to see if they offer a 20 week money back guarentee for the laser comb, i doubt they do though, i may just buy one from Hairmax. 

I took a look at the saw palmetto from natural bounty it looks similar, ingrediants wise, to the one i am taking which is Organika Saw Palmetto;

http://astronutrition.com/pros-saw-p...-capsules.html

As far as the other pills go I am taking Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Calcium with Magnesium + Zinc in their own seperate capsuls which are a bit stronger than the Nail, Hair, Skim vitamin. The one you posted however does have much more biotin than the biotin pills I am taking so I will switch to a better, stronger brand for my biotin intake and ill switch up to your brand of saw palmetto to give it a try!

I also take Orange Triad multi vitamins on top of all of this which are very good, here are those ingrediants;

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/cl...angetriad.html

----------


## Tracy C

Wow.  You take a lot of vitamin supplements.

I only take a few.  The Hair, Skin and Nails multi-vitamin, Evening Primrose Oil and vitamin D & E.  My diet is pretty good, but we don't get enough sunshine here so many people are vitamin D deficient, including me  Um, you dont have to take the same vitamins and supplements I take.  Your needs are likely different than mine.

----------


## goldbondmafia

> Wow.  You take a lot of vitamin supplements.
> 
> I only take a few.  The Hair, Skin and Nails multi-vitamin, Evening Primrose Oil and vitamin D & E.  My diet is pretty good, but we don't get enough sunshine here so many people are vitamin D deficient, including me  Um, you dont have to take the same vitamins and supplements I take.  Your needs are likely different than mine.


 haha yeah, i did not include the green tea and fish oil/omegs 3s as well. 

but your right for vitamins and supplements everyones different. Obviously our vitamins should really only overlap in biotin, saw palmetto and multi's as everyone here should be taking those

----------


## goldbondmafia

Trace one last thing,

i understand how i am going to have to take many pictures to see my progress monthly but i wanted to buzz my hair for this and then grow it out from there however do you think it will affect my progress pictures in terms of seeing improvement where in month 1 my hair is buzzed, and month 3 for example its longer?

I just thought buzzing it would be easier to apply the foam in the morning and liquid at night. Also i want to see shedding happen (so i know its working) but if i had a buzzed cut maybe i would notice it as much and i would get more nervous thinking its not working.

or do you recommend i just cut my hair a bit shorter than normal and leave it consitant at that length for 4-6 months so the progress will be more visible.?

What do you think (last question i ask you, pinkie swear  :Big Grin: )

----------


## headOhair

whether or not you should buzz your hair is up to you, application of products shouldn't be a real problem.

I like the posts that discuss the importance of internal health, trying to maximize your body from the inside out is crucial in addition to topical solutions.  

The base of everything is a healthy diet, supplements are only that, to supplement your diet.  

Try adding a big, organic salad everyday, which is full of vitamins that will help your entire body be healthier!  

One item I don't see mentioned is using Nizoral with 2% Ketoconazole solution.  My friend runs a site from Canada with the real product and super fast shipping - ***********.com

----------


## Tracy C

> One item I don't see mentioned is using Nizoral with 2% Ketoconazole solution.


 How on Earth could you not have seen that discussed?  It has been talked about in almost every thread.   :Confused: 






> or do you recommend i just cut my hair a bit shorter than normal and leave it consitant at that length for 4-6 months so the progress will be more visible.?


 This one.  Knowing what I know now, I feel this is the best thing.  Maybe buzz it only down to an inch instead of all the way off.  Then keep it an inch for the year that you are treating your hair loss.  This should be plenty short enough to make treating your hair loss easier, yet long enough to give you an idea of how much coverage you are gaining.

I would recommend you do your best to try not to stress out over things like shedding.  Whether you stressing out over shedding or a lack of shedding.

----------


## headOhair

> How on Earth could you not have seen that discussed?


 
I should have stated more clearly that even though Nizoral isn't a 'drug' like propecia, it's quite important in the arsenal.  

I find that people just want some magic drug that is hard to get, when simple compounds like Nizoral, Minoxidil and a healthy diet are the important base to keep and maintain your hair.

I apologize for not being clear enough

----------


## goldbondmafia

> This one.  Knowing what I know now, I feel this is the best thing.  Maybe buzz it only down to an inch instead of all the way off.  Then keep it an inch for the year that you are treating your hair loss.  This should be plenty short enough to make treating your hair loss easier, yet long enough to give you an idea of how much coverage you are gaining.
> 
> I would recommend you do your best to try not to stress out over things like shedding.  Whether you stressing out over shedding or a lack of shedding.


 Thanks again Tracy, I will post my pictures in this thread starting Sunday being the first day of my regiment.

I had 3 mid terms this week, didnt have time to buy any products including mino  :Frown:

----------


## 8868alex

I just want to say to everyone who has contributed to this thread that it is a pleasure to read these kind of positive and balanced exchanges. All too often I see people arguing and "point scoring" which makes a mockery of the forum somewhat.

Tracey - 

We haven't always agreed on issues relating to other posts but I very much respect the time and effort you take with your input and the level of detail you go into. I'm also glad someone has taken Bill Rassman to task as well. I've stop reading Baldingblog. The guy has become egocentric!

----------


## goldbondmafia

Hey so those 2 pics I posted in my first message of the thread are from October 19, 2011. Since then ive been using a natural method of restoring my hair along with a few other things Tracy C has taught me. 

The new pics attached are from today (December 15, 2011) so almost 2 months later. My hair at the front is about 1.75 inches and at the top around 1.25 inches. The earlier pics my hair was a bit longer. So today I showered earlier (used Niz 2&#37; today), tried my hair, and took the three pics directly under the light in the room with flash on my camera. First two pics below my hair is a bit combed over near the back and top (up at the front tho) so for the 3rd one i tried to spike it up at the back more so you could see some division of hair

Look at my first post pics on first page and compare it to the pics below, any difference or thoughts?

----------


## Tracy C

> ...any difference or thoughts?


 Quite honestly, two months is not really long enough to see anything.  The four month mark is about when you would start seeing improvement.  However, I do have to say your hair does look better.

----------


## stratofortress

Looks like you have great, thick hair apart from possible crown thinning. Still very slight. Nizoral can help, but it isn't usually potent enough. Minox could be beneficial, but the benefits may be lost over time unless you use a stronger DHT blocker.

My crown is thinning a bit and I've been on fin just under a month. It should be arresting my loss. My hair used to be as thick as yours, but now it's obviously lost quite a bit of volume/density. I wish I'd noticed, or stopped denying the thinning earlier.

Niz is a very mild DHT blocker, but it likely won't be potent enough. Fin might even be enough to fill in the very minimal crown thinning as the loss is likely recent. 

Your recent photos do look better than your older ones. It could be a difference in angle/lighting, not sure. 

In light of the new pics, I'm not even 100% you're thinning, but I can see why you're concerned.

----------


## goldbondmafia

Hey thanks for the two replies SOF and Tracy! 

I buzzed my hair to a 3 this morning so i could get a better look at my scalp and such. I also used a different camera this time with no flash as there is a window on the ceiling above where i took the photos so there was some light coming through. So ye these pictures were taken just after i showered and fully dried my hair. You could see my thinning a lot more now obviously but my hair dresser still told me its thickness on the top is similar to the sides but who knows. Now I can also apply the emu oil a lot easier to my scalp more evenly as before it was a problem since i had the longer hair. I find it weird that I am thinning a bit but my hairline seems like a regular mature hairline and not moving back which is good I suppose.

The second last pic kinda creeped me out but i figured my hair would look like that in the light close up, especially cause its so short. Now I will continue to use emu oil as I said and hopefully have some good results in a month or two but i will post pictures Jan 20th regardless. Its weird even though my hair is thinning i dont even feel stressed anymore about it haha!

----------


## lzrhq

It doesn't seem to be thinning at all. The crown looks normal and overall density is very good... What are you fussing about?

----------


## goldbondmafia

> It doesn't seem to be thinning at all. The crown looks normal and overall density is very good... What are you fussing about?


 the second last pic at the bottom of page 5 seems like its thinning to me man , it just doesnt look right

----------


## goldbondmafia

Tracy do you think the second last pic looks normal ?

----------


## goldbondmafia

Have some new pics uploaded. In my last set of pics from Dec 20 on page 5 my hair was actually a 2 there (in length) and not a 3. For my pictures from today there is not much sun coming through the window above so the lighting may be a bit off. I basically woke up and took these so there no emu oil on my scalp or anything at all. 

Either way I buzzed my hair 4 days ago to a 2 again, 1 on sides, so its easy to compare from last month but as Tracy said it will take 4 months approx to see much improvement so im waiting until April to be sure if anything has occured or not but I will still post monthly pics just to follow it completely.

They basically look the exact same as Dec 20 pics ...

----------


## Tracy C

> Tracy do you think the second last pic looks normal ?


 Yes.  I don't see any evidence of thinning really.  All I see is that you developed a natural and normal mature male hair line.

----------


## carldunford

> These pics were taken about 10-15 mins after i showered but i dried my hair pretty much. 
> 
> I dont know if I am starting to bald there or what cause i have a mirror that looks behind and above my head and it seems normal but then in pictures under the light it looks bad. what do you guys think? btw if more pics or different pictures are needed let me know. im freaking out!!!!
> 
> here are the pics directly under light;


 Get mine for approx $6-7 a month if you use Proscar. The hard part is the prescription. Use 1-1.25mg a day.
Found a company called www.proscarbaldness.com that will deliver free with a prescription for customs.

----------


## clandestine

Personal opinion? Get the **** off these forums man. Your hair is fine, what are you stressing about?

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> Personal opinion? Get the **** off these forums man. Your hair is fine, what are you stressing about?


 I 100% agree clandestine. Plenty of people barely have Norwood 0, let alone Norwood 1 and think they're going bald. What should we say then, with Norwood 4, 5 or even 7..

----------


## goldbondmafia

> Personal opinion? Get the **** off these forums man. Your hair is fine, what are you stressing about?


 ye its obviously not as bad as a lot of people on the forums but i see a thin hair thats shedded every once in a while which weirds me out.

Plus in the summer when my hair was longer and id spike it up i would have different areas at the top of my head (mainly middle from front to back) looking thinner and showing scalp.

----------


## goldbondmafia

Here take a look at the pic i attached, it shows one dying hair and one healthy hair. As I said im not bald or anything just starting to thin and I also had some bloodwork done which showed i have high DHT levels...

----------


## goldbondmafia

Adding some more pictures , just using this thread as a blog i guess to keep track of my hair. Started using nizoral 1x per week, emu oil only at night and coconut oil again instead of aloe vera with vitamin e before my night shower. Also gonna grow my hair out , got it cut feb 8ish to a 2 so now its probably a 3 in length.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> Adding some more pictures , just using this thread as a blog i guess to keep track of my hair. Started using nizoral 1x per week, emu oil only at night and coconut oil again instead of aloe vera with vitamin e before my night shower. Also gonna grow my hair out , got it cut feb 8ish to a 2 so now its probably a 3 in length.


 As I said before, You are everything but bald, most of us here would give anything for a full set of hair like Yours.

Anyway, have You seen any added density with the stuff You're using - coconut oil, aloe vera etc ? Do You take any supplements ?

----------


## goldbondmafia

> As I said before, You are everything but bald, most of us here would give anything for a full set of hair like Yours.
> 
> Anyway, have You seen any added density with the stuff You're using - coconut oil, aloe vera etc ? Do You take any supplements ?


 I haven't really noticed much from the aloe vera with vitamin e oil which is why i am going back to using coconut oil, but my hair has been really short the entire time i used it as most buzzed cuts looks pretty similar. I just started using the coconut oil again a few days ago so well see how it looks as my hair grows longer if it looks thicker. My goal is to document my hairline and improve the quality of my hair , i think im on the right path if you look at my pics on first page.

But yes i take a lot of supplements: biotin, vitamin D, fish oil, multi vitamin (orange triad brand), saw palmetto, green tea, vitamin C.

----------


## stratofortress

You have great hair, but if you are starting to thin you need to make sure you have a good DHT blocker.

----------


## goldbondmafia

Some new pics, my hair is quite a bit longer since the last pictures, id say an inch-inch.5 maybe. pictures were taken again directly under sunlight so i dont know if that is a factor in seeing my scalp in last two pics...? im not sure if my last pic the one of the crown is normal, from my pictures in mid december it looks the same and maybe even better now then my the pictures i posted in original post on page 1. 

BTW normal DHT levels should be between 860-3406 according to my doctor, mine is 4128 right now, although these results are from last decemberish so next month i will get it checked out again

----------


## bananana

Sorry for dropping in like this - but where/how do you measure your DHT level?

----------


## goldbondmafia

> Sorry for dropping in like this - but where/how do you measure your DHT level?


 blood tests

----------


## goldbondmafia

new update, my hair is getting quite a bit longer since last month. As usual I took my pictures under a ceiling window and I also did another DHT test and my levels have gone up a tiny bit from 4128 to 4193 althought my doctor thinks nothing of it. Im thinking its from lifting heavier weights at the gym for the last 4-5 months. 

any thoughts on the new pics?

----------


## NotBelievingIt

> new update, my hair is getting quite a bit longer since last month. As usual I took my pictures under a ceiling window and I also did another DHT test and my levels have gone up a tiny bit from 4128 to 4193 althought my doctor thinks nothing of it. Im thinking its from lifting heavier weights at the gym for the last 4-5 months. 
> 
> any thoughts on the new pics?


 Yes, its from lifting weights.

You've got what looks like some general thinning going on on the top.  Its starting to look like a diffuse pattern (even though theres no such thing exactly..)

pic #37 shows it the most...its thin in places it just shouldn't be, like a cowlick swirl area or hair part.

----------


## goldbondmafia

> Yes, its from lifting weights.
> 
> You've got what looks like some general thinning going on on the top.  Its starting to look like a diffuse pattern (even though theres no such thing exactly..)
> 
> pic #37 shows it the most...its thin in places it just shouldn't be, like a cowlick swirl area or hair part.


 Ye I just find it weird that all the pics look good (minus second last photo #37). If you look at post 47 on page 5 you can see my hair from the same angle in December and my hair isnt spiked its combed over which makes it look a ton better. My hair is spiked up and under sunlight in the photos from today which creates more of a thin look as well. Once it gets worse in a year or two from now ill get on fin haha. And my swirl in the last pic has always looked like that tho.

I feel pretty lucky as my hair has looked this way since last october and ive managed to halt further thinning from back then, just gotta keep it rolling

----------


## goldbondmafia

tracy any thoughts do you think its getting better/worse from before?

----------


## clandestine

> Once it gets worse in a year or two from now ill get on fin haha. And my swirl in the last pic has always looked like that tho.


 Why wait a year or two from now?

----------


## goldbondmafia

> Why wait a year or two from now?


 Dunno, its not noticable now unless my hairs in the sunlight but then again light can make anyone seem thinner (not that mine isnt starting). 

I plan on seeing an IAHRS doc this summer to discuss some things first too. BTW are you on fin?

----------


## goldbondmafia

Some new pics. Buzzed my hair again to a 2 a few weeks ago its a bit longer now tho. Im also seeing an IAHRS doc in two weeks so we will see what he says and recommends. To be honest I may start taking fin in a low dose to reduce some DHT (as I believe male bodies need it) but if I notice _any_ difference in my body im not taking it again and will accept hair loss haha gonna save my money for a real cure in the future then get jacked as fuuck till then

----------


## mpb47

> Some new pics. Buzzed my hair again to a 2 a few weeks ago its a bit longer now tho. Im also seeing an IAHRS doc in two weeks so we will see what he says and recommends. To be honest I may start taking fin in a low dose to reduce some DHT (as I believe male bodies need it) but if I notice _any_ difference in my body im not taking it again and will accept hair loss haha gonna save my money for a real cure in the future then get jacked as fuuck till then


 Just by reading the hair boards I found that a lot of guys are on low doses of Fin (like .25-.50) to avoid sides. Some seem to have really good results too. 
I didn't want to go back on FIN but I could see my vertex/crown was getting worse on just Minox. I recently started  on .50,  but will drop to .25 if I have to .
So yea I think a low dose of FIN is a good compromise if you are concerned about sides. Oh and some guys report they do feel it for a couple of weeks even on low doses but it clears up pretty quickly.

----------


## goldbondmafia

> Just by reading the hair boards I found that a lot of guys are on low doses of Fin (like .25-.50) to avoid sides. Some seem to have really good results too. 
> I didn't want to go back on FIN but I could see my vertex/crown was getting worse on just Minox. I recently started  on .50,  but will drop to .25 if I have to.


 Ye this is what I thought recently since my DHT levels are not overly high but a bit above the norm and saw palmetto hasn't done the trick just yet either. Our male bodies do need DHT and I am just guessing when i say this but I believe the ones that get sides may get it from reducing too much of it in their body. Purely an assumption though. How is the .50 working for you so far any sides/is it working on the hair?




> So yea I think a low dose of FIN is a good compromise if you are concerned about sides. Oh and some guys report they do feel it for a couple of weeks even on low doses but it clears up pretty quickly.


 Your saying they feel sides for a few weeks but then it goes away? Id personally be terrified if i got sides, almost too scared to fight through it like these people did...

----------


## mpb47

> Ye this is what I thought recently since my DHT levels are not overly high but a bit above the norm and saw palmetto hasn't done the trick just yet either. Our male bodies do need DHT and I am just guessing when i say this but I believe the ones that get sides may get it from reducing too much of it in their body. Purely an assumption though. How is the .50 working for you so far any sides/is it working on the hair?
> 
> 
> 
> Your saying they feel sides for a few weeks but then it goes away? Id personally be terrified if i got sides, almost too scared to fight through it like these people did...


 No you are probably right as DHT is the good guy/bad guy depending on who you believe on the Steroid/exercise web boards.
Well I have only been on it less than 2 weeks but I will say I have been extra-extra tired lately. It could be a coincidence and also I am on an old batch of proscar which is very hard to cut down to .50 . I have the 1mg size on the way so I will be able to cut it to .50 or .25 once it gets here.

You are young so you probably won't have any issues. But if you do here is some advice from one of the hair docs as he thinks despite the short half life FIN stays in your system for maybe a week, plus it takes awhile for reductase to build back up.  If you do ever get sides that don't go away after say 3-5 weeks, then try taking Fin only 3 days a week. Wait a few weeks and If that is still too much then go 2 times a week. Then if that is too much go to 1 time a week.

If even 1 time a week is too much he has one last suggestion and this one really hit home with me. You know that nizoral shampoo everyone talks about? Well it never did anything for me and the Dr agrees that it is ineffective. Not because the drug doesn't work but because it is in shampoo form. He says to use the foam version and leave it in and you will get some DHT blocking. It's not as good as FIN but better than doing nothing. 

Again you may not ever have a problem but I think the above is better than doing nothing and just letting yourself go bald.  Good luck!

----------


## goldbondmafia

So last week I went and saw an IAHRS doctor nearby to get on Fin and see what he had to say. Basically he looked at my scalp close up and told me that he didn't see any miniaturizing follicles and does not believe i am suffering from any thinning/hair loss. He doesn't think i should go on fin obviously and to come back in a year. He ended up taking photos of my head and we will compare those in a year. He also said bright lighting makes hair seem thinner than it really is and the pictures I take and showed him are not always accurate. Thoughts?

this morning:

----------


## 2020

you're going bald dude 100%... welcome to the club. Do you have any family history of hair loss?

----------


## clandestine

> you're going bald dude 100%... welcome to the club. Do you have any family history of hair loss?


 You're opinion is entirely valid! And probably expert! What with your numerous credentials and vast understandings of this condition.

----------


## stratofortress

> You're opinion is entirely valid! And probably expert! What with your numerous credentials and vast understandings of this condition.


 The OP still has hair worth saving, but you can see from the pictures that there is thinning in the crown. The latest batch aren't that brightly lit, but the thinning is still visible. The shot on the stairs shows it best.

I could be wrong, but having observed comparable thinning on my own crown I would advise the OP to consider preventative treatments.

----------


## goldbondmafia

New pics from today. My hair is getting a lot longer faster as Ive upped the biotin from 3000mcgs per day to 6000. All the biotin does is make hair grow faster, not thicker (or thinner for that matter). New pics next month, can't even imagine how long it will be then.

----------


## goldbondmafia

Just woke up, took new pics with my bed head. Cant believe how fast biotin makes my hair grow even after a month.

----------


## dex89

it looks good man, gratz  :Cool:

----------


## therealhan

goldbondmafia,

these pics are with the treatment of rogaine? just wondering - all doesn't seem too bad and very minimal to say the least - looks good

----------


## goldbondmafia

> it looks good man, gratz


 hey thanks man!




> goldbondmafia,
> 
> these pics are with the treatment of rogaine? just wondering - all doesn't seem too bad and very minimal to say the least - looks good


 nope I don't use rogaine, I use: emu oil, coconut oil, nizoral 2%, head and shoulders zinc shampoo/conditioner, multi vitamins, fish oil and saw palmetto

----------


## goldbondmafia

Hey so here are some new pics. I cut my hair to about 1-1.5 inches a few days ago, it was getting way too long. In the last few weeks Ive stopped taking 6000mcgs of biotin per day and went down to 3000. However starting today I will no longer take biotin and this herbal thing ive also been taking for a while. Well see if my hair stays the same or worsens in the next few months hopefully.

----------


## mjj

Geez man, my crown is the exact same as yours in terms of how my hair parts. Yeah I got scared when I first saw it under light, went to a doctor freaking out, went to the derm and the derm laughed at me. Like I've mentioned in another post, I have recession at the temples and that made me think my crown had gone as well. I saw a picture of myself from maybe 5 years ago, guess what? It showed the exact same "part" or whatever you want to call it.

Now i'm not saying you don't have hair loss, I'm not an expert (but an expert told you that you were fine), but looking at your pics from a year ago to today, I reckon you're fine.

----------


## goldbondmafia

> Geez man, my crown is the exact same as yours in terms of how my hair parts. Yeah I got scared when I first saw it under light, went to a doctor freaking out, went to the derm and the derm laughed at me. Like I've mentioned in another post, I have recession at the temples and that made me think my crown had gone as well. I saw a picture of myself from maybe 5 years ago, guess what? It showed the exact same "part" or whatever you want to call it.
> 
> Now i'm not saying you don't have hair loss, I'm not an expert (but an expert told you that you were fine), but looking at your pics from a year ago to today, I reckon you're fine.


 Thanks for the response man. My temples are getting pretty thin as well so maybe its a sign of things to come! Although my temples have been relatively thin for a few years now so it could have always been that way.

BTW, I should have mentioned that I also stopped lifting weights August 4th due to an injury, I went to the gym only a handul of times till now. Im gonna start back up again tomorrow so hopefully my DHT levels don't raise again from lifting.

----------


## goldbondmafia

update, buzzed my hair to a 3 few weeks ago, thinking of possibly stopping the emu oil usage since my hair seems to be good for now.

----------


## dex89

> update, buzzed my hair to a 3 few weeks ago, thinking of possibly stopping the emu oil usage since my hair seems to be good for now.


 does emu oil really worked for you? for some reason everytime I use it, I lose a lot of hair in the temples.

----------


## goldbondmafia

> does emu oil really worked for you? for some reason everytime I use it, I lose a lot of hair in the temples.


 Thats weird. Ive always had thinnish temples for as long as I can remember so for me it wouldn't be the emu oil.

But Im not sure anymore if it does anything or not, take a look at the first page with the photos I attached then and compare them to now. My hair feels thicker but that could be mental. Keep in mind when I started using emu oil I started nizoral around the same time.

----------


## goldbondmafia

New pics, my crown looks the exact same as it did last October so I am hoping this is just the way it is. Starting today I am going to stop taking calcium/magnesium/zinc vitamins and stick to fish oil, multi's and saw palmetto.

----------


## goldbondmafia

I should mention that I am also going to stop taking multi vitamins since I eat a lot of fruits and vegetables therefore they aren't really needed. I heard if one is already hitting their daily amount of vitamins and minerals then adding a multi vitamin may not be good.

----------


## goldbondmafia

I think after this month Im going to start posting pictures once every 2-3 months. Ive been taking progressive multi vitamins lately + saw palmetto so i cut out all the other stuff like fish oils, vit D, magnesium, zinc, calcium etc. I don't think its made a difference on my hair though. If anything it would help cutting down since before I ate a lot of healthy food and took vitamins on top which gave me too much for my body to process.

----------


## clandestine

goldbond; we understand you wanting to keep on top of things, but your literally like a NW0-NW1. It's more of a taunt at this point. Go live your life, please.

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## goldbondmafia

Just wanted to quickly update - hair feels great still but I've noticed my libido and sex drive lowering from taking saw palmetto for so long. I've been taking two pills a day since October of 2011 I believe so I'm going to stop for a few months and then compare todays pictures with what I have later on. Also haven't worked out for a month or two so I will be going back to lifting weights hard. Curious to see how my hair will look in a few months with no more saw palmetto and a hard weight lifting schedule...also going to stop drinking as much too.

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## goldbondmafia

and these two pics as well

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## Shan

Seriously bro, you need to get a life, and get off these forums. Your hair is fine.

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## goldbondmafia

> Seriously bro, you need to get a life, and get off these forums. Your hair is fine.


 Kk I'll leave just really paranoid but I just have to get over it and realize I'm good

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## goldbondmafia

Got a short haircut a month ago and noticed my hairline is kind of receeding , crown and top is fine but on my left side part of my hairline its getting thinner, I don't think im going crazy or being paranoid this time see for yourselves. My dad is a NW3a at 55 so im hoping mine is similar to his.

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## BigThinker

> Got a short haircut a month ago and noticed my hairline is kind of receeding , crown and top is fine but on my left side part of my hairline its getting thinner, I don't think im going crazy or being paranoid this time see for yourselves. My dad is a NW3a at 55 so im hoping mine is similar to his.


 Yeah, from what I can see, you shouldn't be starting any treatments yet -- for sure not any that are "serious" or require you to take them for the rest of your life.

Your hairline looks money, man.  Chillllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.

Just peep it every few months.

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## JustAYoungMan

Very hard to tell. Have you always had a large spiral (everyone has a spiral, that just looks a slight bit larger than usual). If you are balding, it doesn't look like the usual Male Pattern Baldness, which starts at the hairline, so talk to your dermatologist about that.

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## goldbondmafia

> Yeah, from what I can see, you shouldn't be starting any treatments yet -- for sure not any that are "serious" or require you to take them for the rest of your life.
> 
> Your hairline looks money, man.  Chillllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll.
> 
> Just peep it every few months.


 Thanks man ye its a decent hairline for now, a bit receded in real life though. As I said Im sort of worried about the left side as it seems thin there for some reason. I just hope it doesn't get worse which is why I am contemplating fin.





> Very hard to tell. Have you always had a large spiral (everyone has a spiral, that just looks a slight bit larger than usual). If you are balding, it doesn't look like the usual Male Pattern Baldness, which starts at the hairline, so talk to your dermatologist about that.


 Like a cowlick? I remember I must have been like 13 and got a haircut the barber said I have cowlick on both sides I remember thinking wtf is that.. but that was almost 10 years ago I don't think I have them now. Im seeing an IAHRS doctor tomorrow  so I will ask him why only my left part of the hairline has a thin patch.. I am really nervous to be honest.

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## oxo2010

My baldness started just like that. A few hairs that were missing on the top of my head. 

I was lucky in a way because it took me 10 years to go completely bald, but I admit I did have a comb over in about year eight.  :EEK!: 

Something I look back on now and shudder. :Big Grin:

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## goldbondmafia

> My baldness started just like that. A few hairs that were missing on the top of my head. 
> 
> I was lucky in a way because it took me 10 years to go completely bald, but I admit I did have a comb over in about year eight. 
> 
> Something I look back on now and shudder.


 Did you take any meds for it or use minoxidil?

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## goldbondmafia

BTW I just saw my IAHRS doctor. We took pictures last June and he said I have receeded a tiny bit. Last year he didn't think I was receeding but had a mature hairline. He noticed some hairs on my hairline starting to miniaturize a bit in the corners of each side like the pics above show. 

But anyways I got 2 weeks worth of fin at 1mg each, I plan on taking only .5mg though so I basically have a months worth. Im gonna try it either tomorrow or Monday and see how it goes for a month. If I get sides im going straight to CB or RU BUT if I survive a month then ill continue. 

One thing I read from a sheet he gave me after kind of freaked me out. It says the following: "Minoxidil and finasteride work in different ways and can be used together; however they are only effective as long as you keep using them. Within 6-12 months of stopping them, you will lose the hair they helped you save and it will be as if you never used them". 

Does this mean if I use fin for 5 years and stop that my hair will fall out during the following 6-12 months and be at the same place as if I never took the drug and waited 5 years?

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## mature

> BTW I just saw my IAHRS doctor. We took pictures last June and he said I have receeded a tiny bit. Last year he didn't think I was receeding but had a mature hairline. He noticed some hairs on my hairline starting to miniaturize a bit in the corners of each side like the pics above show. 
> 
> But anyways I got 2 weeks worth of fin at 1mg each, I plan on taking only .5mg though so I basically have a months worth. Im gonna try it either tomorrow or Monday and see how it goes for a month. If I get sides im going straight to CB or RU BUT if I survive a month then ill continue. 
> 
> One thing I read from a sheet he gave me after kind of freaked me out. It says the following: "Minoxidil and finasteride work in different ways and can be used together; however they are only effective as long as you keep using them. Within 6-12 months of stopping them, you will lose the hair they helped you save and it will be as if you never used them". 
> 
> Does this mean if I use fin for 5 years and stop that my hair will fall out during the following 6-12 months and be at the same place as if I never took the drug and waited 5 years?


 Yes, if you don't get on a different treatment and just hop off then you will lose whatever hair it was keeping alive.

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## goldbondmafia

So I started fin on June 10 just 4 days ago. Ive been doing .5mgs and I will bump it up to 1 mg tomorrow. So far no sides or anything. Im going to post some pictures now then repost new ones in 3-4 months to see if there is any difference. My only worry is the hairline but even that is still decent for now, don't want it getting worse though. Hopefully fin can maintain everything and my hair looks exactly the same in 3-4 months!!!!!

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## goldbondmafia

my hair line looks exactly like those pictures above still 2 months on fin now. Do you guys think I should add in rogaine foam or wait until ive been on fin for a year before I make any moves I honestly cannot decide and have been thinking about it daily for months now....yes or no?

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## 35YrsAfter

> my hair line looks exactly like those pictures above still 2 months on fin now. Do you guys think I should add in rogaine foam or wait until ive been on fin for a year before I make any moves I honestly cannot decide and have been thinking about it daily for months now....yes or no?


 I just asked Dr. Cole to be sure.  He said you can begin using Rogaine at any time while on Finasteride.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
www.forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.  Ask for Chuck

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## dex89

> Got a short haircut a month ago and noticed my hairline is kind of receeding , crown and top is fine but on my left side part of my hairline its getting thinner, I don't think im going crazy or being paranoid this time see for yourselves. My dad is a NW3a at 55 so im hoping mine is similar to his.


 That's how it starts, my right temple was receding and my left was perfectly fine when I was around your age. Once I started to hit 23 my left caught up to my right temple. 

I think we have the same NW, I'm currently receding but a lower state. My right temple as been the same since I was 21 and I'm 24 now. The medication I'm currently using is Proscar 3-4 times a weeks and minox foam once every other week. I've been letting my hair grow because it hides my temples better. If you notice on my left and right temple I trim down the little hair around my hairline. I know i shouldn't but it was bothering me like a motha fudga

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## goldbondmafia

> That's how it starts, my right temple was receding and my left was perfectly fine when I was around your age. Once I started to hit 23 my left caught up to my right temple. 
> 
> I think we have the same NW, I'm currently receding but a lower state. My right temple as been the same since I was 21 and I'm 24 now. The medication I'm currently using is Proscar 3-4 times a weeks and minox foam once every other week. I've been letting my hair grow because it hides my temples better. If you notice on my left and right temple I trim down the little hair around my hairline. I know i shouldn't but it was bothering me like a motha fudga


 
I would say yours looks much better than mine to be honest man yours looks great. So you use the foam one week then next week no foam then 3rd week back to foam etc? Do you have before/after pics?

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## dex89

> I would say yours looks much better than mine to be honest man yours looks great. So you use the foam one week then next week no foam then 3rd week back to foam etc? Do you have before/after pics?


 I'm sorry, I meant to say that I use minox foam every other day after I shower. I did start of using foam twice a day, 7 times a week for years. Probably since I was 19-20 so about 4-5 years. About 2 months ago I stop taking it every day. 

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=11443 <---- you can use that as an before pic.

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## mpb47

> One thing I read from a sheet he gave me after kind of freaked me out. It says the following: "Minoxidil and finasteride work in different ways and can be used together; however they are only effective as long as you keep using them. Within 6-12 months of stopping them, you will lose the hair they helped you save and it will be as if you never used them". 
> 
> Does this mean if I use fin for 5 years and stop that my hair will fall out during the following 6-12 months and be at the same place as if I never took the drug and waited 5 years?


 Some docs say yes you will immediately go back to baseline,  some say it no but it will gradually return back.

I can tell you I was on it for 4-5 years then stopped. I stayed on Minox though.
At first I did lose a lot of hair but after about a year I would say 50-60% came back so I was still a good bit ahead of where I was before I started. It pretty much stayed like that until about 2 years ago when it started coming back. I recently went back on propecia because I could see it was getting worse esp in the crown.  So at least for me some of my regrown hair stayed around on minox alone for a few years afterwords.

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## goldbondmafia

> I'm sorry, I meant to say that I use minox foam every other day after I shower. I did start of using foam twice a day, 7 times a week for years. Probably since I was 19-20 so about 4-5 years. About 2 months ago I stop taking it every day. 
> 
> http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=11443 <---- you can use that as an before pic.


 To be honest I don't even think you are fully balding man you hairline and everything looks perfect in both before/after pics




> Some docs say yes you will immediately go back to baseline,  some say it no but it will gradually return back.
> 
> I can tell you I was on it for 4-5 years then stopped. I stayed on Minox though.
> At first I did lose a lot of hair but after about a year I would say 50-60% came back so I was still a good bit ahead of where I was before I started. It pretty much stayed like that until about 2 years ago when it started coming back. I recently went back on propecia because I could see it was getting worse esp in the crown.  So at least for me some of my regrown hair stayed around on minox alone for a few years afterwords.


 That's pretty good then I assumed a lot of it would be gone after stopping it for so long. What made you stop in the first place?

btw, From the pics I provided do you think I should try minox?

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## mpb47

> That's pretty good then I assumed a lot of it would be gone after stopping it for so long. What made you stop in the first place?
> 
> btw, From the pics I provided do you think I should try minox?


 Well that is how it was for me, but I don't know how common it is. I have read conflicting statements from 2 different docs. Probably both right, happens differently to different guys.

I stopped because of sides but I have to wonder if there were other issues. That is why I am trying again.

Honestly I don't think I would start on minox just yet. You can always add it latter if needed.

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## goldbondmafia

Hey are some pictures exactly 6 months and 1 day after starting finasteride. My baseline pictures are on post 109 on page 11.

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## goldbondmafia

Picture 1 is baseline, picture 2 is 6 month point, picture 3 is baseline, picture 4 is 6 month point

thoughts?

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## Dan26

Lookin good man!

Is fin all you are using?

Have you got your DHT tested since last time bro? I got my DHT tested again and it turns out fin does nothing for me! It's either dut or baldness now aahah  :Frown:

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## bbbbbb

> Picture 1 is baseline, picture 2 is 6 month point, picture 3 is baseline, picture 4 is 6 month point
> 
> thoughts?


 Nice, you're on 0.5mg Fin right? Stick with that for another 12 months, sounds like a good plan/

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## goldbondmafia

> Lookin good man!
> 
> Is fin all you are using?
> 
> Have you got your DHT tested since last time bro? I got my DHT tested again and it turns out fin does nothing for me! It's either dut or baldness now aahah


 hey dan,

sorry for the slow response ive been out of the country! but yeah im only using fin 1.25mg and nizoral 2%. I haven't gotten any blood tests done since 6 weeks AFTER I started fin but I plan on getting my DHT and test levels taken in early January to compare. I sort of feel like my sex drive is going down a bit which is why I want to get the blood tests done again

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## goldbondmafia

hey guys, figured I would do a one year update since I began fin 1.25mg last June 10th

Pictures 1 and 3 are baseline, 2 and 4 are today. I personally think I have maintained and possibly seen very slight improvement though nothing crazy. 

I was thinking of adding in dut 0.5 mg 2x/week and fin only 5x/week. Or minox either once or twice a day although I haven't decided yet. Do you guys think I should add anything in?

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## AfterHair

> Will do, but Im already taking saw palmetto twice per day and have been for a month now. What is low level laser therapy? Im willing to try it if it can keep the thickness of the sworl there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Considering these pics were also taken in bright light it makes it look worse but even in general i do think its very early stages of thinning at the top a bit and the sworl part ofcourse too. 
> 
> My hairline was receeding a tiny bit, could just have gone into a mature hairline though. My hairline is all good for now, then this swirl thinning comes up...
> 
> ...


 Sometimes hair dressers can just be too nice.. out of all the hair dressers I've had, I've only been told by one that my hair is looking in bad shape (due to hair loss).

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## goldbondmafia

> Sometimes hair dressers can just be too nice.. out of all the hair dressers I've had, I've only been told by one that my hair is looking in bad shape (due to hair loss).


 You quoted a post that was over like two years old....

Any thoughts on 1 year comparison pics guys? - ps getting on dut 0.5 mg 2x/week starting tomm cannot decide about minox still

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## badumtsss

does it look like im balding??

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## 35YrsAfter

> does it look like im balding??


 Camera flash and the way hair is parted can create the illusion of hair loss.  Take more pictures with higher resolution, under different lighting with the flash turned off.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

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## goldbondmafia

> does it look like im balding??


 Hard to say. My crown has been the same since I was 10 years old and its similar to yours. 

Ive been on fin for 1.5 years now and rogaine foam for 6 months I have seen maintenance for sure, possible slight regrowth at the hairline. Hopefully fin can hold my hair until something better comes out. PS i got a few PMs about oils - I stopped using emu oil years ago and just recently stopped coconut oil forever.

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