# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  wtf is going with HISTOGEN phase 2b?

## Scientalk56

are they going to start phase 2b in 2020?! I mean srsly... wtf?

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## cp9

> are they going to start phase 2b in 2020?! I mean srsly... wtf?


 That sarcasm or did it actually read it somewhere? o.O 
I was hoping for it to be released in Asia by 2015..

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## Thinning87

Asking the internet every other day won't make it happen. Get a life

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## Scientalk56

> That sarcasm or did it actually read it somewhere? o.O 
> I was hoping for it to be released in Asia by 2015..


 I hope it stays sarcastic, because if it's not, we're in a big trouble.

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## HairBane

I don't think they've said exactly when they're starting IIb, just 'soon'. Right now I'm presuming there's a lot of paperwork going on with the reverse merger and laying out the plans for the IIb trial. Hopefully they'll start before summer 2014, and I think IIb usually last around 1 year so we're not too far away from a potential Asia release if everything goes smoothly (best case late 2015 maybe).

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## Thinning87

Don't count on it. You people need to understand that opening a new thread on the same topic once a week won't make our hopes become a reality.

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## rdawg

educated guess with the positive results + very recent merger, sometime in Q1 2014. So January-March timeframe.

I dont think they have any concrete date as they probably still have some paperwork+finding patients etc. but it will definitely be within the next 3-4 months unless I'm missing something.

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## crafter

could replicel call it quits if histo progress quicker?

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## Thinning87

based on what dude, I can't believe you people. Always making timelines like you know anything going on in the company.

For all we know they still have to secure the money to actually move into phase 2B.

We just don't know, so take it easy, and do something else with your time. Most importantly, don't lie to yourselves.

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## rdawg

> could replicel call it quits if histo progress quicker?


 Doubtful, although someone could clarify if replicel is going into IIa or IIB?

Different process though, Replicel if it actually ended up working has massive potential, but definitely hasnt shown that at all.

Histogen has shown a working product.

But I do agree with Thinning, we should be living our lives instead of sitting here everyday, the last few months for me have gone by faster as I got off the computer and went traveling/school/work etc. and my mind wasn't even focused on the hairloss. I'm back on now as it's winter and i'm just at home alot more but still.

Obviously its an annoyance in my life, but recognize that we are quite a ways a way(2-3 years+) to the point where we should be living life to the fullest and not worrying about this!

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## whateva

That histogen reverse merger fell apart...not sure why.

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## Pentarou

> That histogen reverse merger fell apart...not sure why.


 Uh oh, that's... Not a good sign.

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## crafter

> Uh oh, that's... Not a good sign.


 indeed  :Frown:

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## locke999

> That histogen reverse merger fell apart...not sure why.


 Is there a link to this? Where are you getting your information.

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## Thinning87

> That histogen reverse merger fell apart...not sure why.


 Source?

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## deuce

> Source?


 +1

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## hellouser

> +1


 +2

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## whateva

Stratus media 10-Q filed yesterday

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## Dazza

> Stratus media 10-Q filed yesterday


 Stratus has suspended development of its past businesses, including ProElite, and, contingent on sufficient capital, is seeking acquisitions. On October 4, 2013, the Company and Histogen, Inc. ("Histogen") executed a non-binding letter of intent pursuant to which the Company agreed to acquire all of the capital stock of Histogen for 350,000,000 pre-reverse split shares of the Company's common stock. Discussions regarding this potential acquisition have halted and the Company does not intend to further pursue this potential acquisition.

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## cp9

Sooo.. what does this mean?? Everything's put on hold? Or they're carrying on without the merger anyway?

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## Kiwi

> Stratus has suspended development of its past businesses, including ProElite, and, contingent on sufficient capital, is seeking acquisitions. On October 4, 2013, the Company and Histogen, Inc. ("Histogen") executed a non-binding letter of intent pursuant to which the Company agreed to acquire all of the capital stock of Histogen for 350,000,000 pre-reverse split shares of the Company's common stock. Discussions regarding this potential acquisition have halted and the Company does not intend to further pursue this potential acquisition.


 Whew. I was worried they bought Histogen and were going to shut it down.

But that's not what this says. This says that they have a non-binding (whew) agreement.

Whew!!!

It could mean anything. 

It doesn't mean the Histogen solution is any less awesome  :Smile:

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## Desmond84

> Stratus has suspended development of its past businesses, including ProElite, and, contingent on sufficient capital, is seeking acquisitions. On October 4, 2013, the Company and Histogen, Inc. ("Histogen") executed a non-binding letter of intent pursuant to which the Company agreed to acquire all of the capital stock of Histogen for 350,000,000 pre-reverse split shares of the Company's common stock. *Discussions regarding this potential acquisition have halted and the Company does not intend to further pursue this potential acquisition.*


 Oh No! RestoreGeneX isn't gonna happen?...man, Histogen is such a better solution to Minoxidil. Two treatments and you wont have to worry about hairloss progression for at least 12 months! 

What is wrong with investors??? Histogen will kill Regaine within months!!!

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## Pentarou

It doesn't matter how awesome the solution is if the company doesn't have the finances to get the product through trials and to market release. We all need to recognise the fact that any of these treatments in the pipeline could vanish like Aderans did.

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## Vox

> We all need to recognise the fact that any of these treatments in the pipeline could vanish like Aderans did.


 Yes, but this thought must remain in the back of our mind, not forth.  :Wink:

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## Scientalk56

> It doesn't matter how awesome the solution is if the company doesn't have the finances to get the product through trials and to market release. We all need to recognise the fact that any of these treatments in the pipeline could vanish like Aderans did.


 Sadly, you are right! :S

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## Pentarou

In reality, we'll be lucky if *one* of these treatments ever makes it. That's so crushingly depressing to mentally acknowledge and type out, but there you go.  :Frown:

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## garethbale

Where is the actual info about Histogen?

I can't see anything on their website

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## Duke

Can someone tell me how Histogen was funded in the first place?

Why cant we find anything on their website regarding this?? :Confused:  :Confused: 

Histogen must not die!!!  :EEK!:  :EEK!:

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## Sogeking

Great... Just great... We just can't get a break... **** me..........
 :Mad:  :Mad:  :Mad:

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## HairBane

Hmm interesting that they're not going through with the reverse merger. Perhaps someone who's in contact with Gail could email her and ask what's going on? I wonder how else they could get funding, they're obviously in need.

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## crafter

no funding no new trials.  Maybe they did they recent presentation to attract investors.  Odd tho as Replicel have funding but their results are poorer than histos

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## censur

A very desperate thought but...
Maybe they could get a little funding support from all the people at these hair loss forums?
Either as donations or by issuing shares or opening up for a possibility to donate now and get a free treatment if the treatment is launched onto the market in the future?

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## crafter

maybe they'll sell it off like Intercytex did, although they sold it to Aderans  :Frown:

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## crafter

just thinking, but isn't Dr Bauman involved with Histogen?  maybe someone could contact him.  I think hes on Twitter

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## greatjob!

I think everyone on here is bi-polar. Seriously the same people that have been saying histogen will be out soon immediately proclaim that the company is finished based on a incredibly small amount of information.

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## Javert

> I think everyone on here is bi-polar. Seriously the same people that have been saying histogen will be out soon immediately proclaim that the company is finished based on a incredibly small amount of information.


 +1

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## crafter

> I think everyone on here is bi-polar. Seriously the same people that have been saying histogen will be out soon immediately proclaim that the company is finished based on a incredibly small amount of information.


 well they certainly appear to be having serious issues

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## Knockin on NW4

> I think everyone on here is bi-polar. Seriously the same people that have been saying histogen will be out soon immediately proclaim that the company is finished based on a incredibly small amount of information.


 Very true. Its just a by product of the emotional and mental stress hairloss causes. Im Manic Depressive  myself. It runs in my fam, BUT hairloss is the  MAIN DRIVER  in my case.

The sad part is the hairy ones don't realize the severity of stress involved with hairloss. They right it off as trivial and vain.

I guess what I'm saying is,  the back and forth arguements should be expexted , as well as the high and low emotionally charged posts. 

Its part of the community, its part of who we are. Sufferers.

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## Kiwi

> I think everyone on here is bi-polar. Seriously the same people that have been saying histogen will be out soon immediately proclaim that the company is finished based on a incredibly small amount of information.


 +1

That article never said anything about Histogen being in trouble. It merely said one particular company isnt investing in them. 

We know nothing but the words that were uses. Nowhere are there any words saying Histogen is in trouble. Everything else is more paranoid douche baggery. 

That said... somebody call Gail right now!!!! ;P

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## hairquest

Whay's wrong with that field!...can we have a postive news for change? is that too much to ask?

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## k3nk3n

> I think everyone on here is bi-polar. Seriously the same people that have been saying histogen will be out soon immediately proclaim that the company is finished based on a incredibly small amount of information.


 +2

This is what spencer has been saying all along, making assumptions based off on small amount of information and get others' emotions up and down.

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## hellouser

> +2
> 
> This is what spencer has been saying all along, making assumptions based off on small amount of information and get others' emotions up and down.


 Sometimes its the other way around... almost no news at all and a ton of optimism shortly followed by the absolute worst... case in point, Aderans. LOL

This disease needs to be put to an end right NOW.

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## Desmond84

> Sometimes its the other way around... almost no news at all and a ton of optimism shortly followed by the absolute worst... case in point, Aderans. LOL
> 
> This disease needs to be put to an end right NOW.


 So true! Hellouser speaks the truth...period

Tbh we only can access small amount of information since non of us have access to players in the game or their trade secrets. So we go by what we can dig up online and tey to be optimistic analysing it...

From the time I've been following hairloss news there's only been one time that we had some good data on humans and that was Histogens phase 1 interim results! 

Before and after that we pretty much have seen nothing but delays, liquidations and scientific shortcomings...

It makes being positive so hard at times...now I'm worried if Histogens Phase 2b will even begin in 2014? That's up in air right now as well and we are powerless to do anything about it. All we can do is take our propecia and hope for the best.

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## baldybald

> Sometimes its the other way around... almost no news at all and a ton of optimism shortly followed by the absolute worst... case in point, Aderans. LOL
> 
> This disease needs to be put to an end right NOW.


 i wish somebody can, but this ugly beast is continuing to put an end for a lot of hairloss companies.

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## Dan26

> Very true. Its just a by product of the emotional and mental stress hairloss causes. Im Manic Depressive  myself. It runs in my fam, BUT hairloss is the  MAIN DRIVER  in my case.
> 
> The sad part is the hairy ones don't realize the severity of stress involved with hairloss. They right it off as trivial and vain.
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is,  the back and forth arguements should be expexted , as well as the high and low emotionally charged posts. 
> 
> Its part of the community, its part of who we are. Sufferers.


 *slow clap*

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## Desmond84

Guys we're 4 days from Dec 2013. It's now 12 months since Phase 1/2a ended. Histogen has not announced any news about their estimated date for initiation of Phase 2b. There is no draft protocol either. Their merger deal fell through as well. 

How do you guys feel? Will 2014 be just like 2013? Apart from attending conferences all operations on Hair stimulating complex have halted! 

I wish we didn't even know about Histogen...that way we wouldn't be so disappointed in not being able to use it, even though the science is solid and efficacy is proven  :Frown: 

Thinning87 I know you hate it when I make these posts BUT I had to...getting so tired of waiting when we are still where we were exactly 12 months ago!

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## Hairismylife

> Guys we're 4 days from Dec 2013. It's now 12 months since Phase 1/2a ended. Histogen has not announced any news about their estimated date for initiation of Phase 2b. There is no draft protocol either. Their merger deal fell through as well. 
> 
> How do you guys feel? Will 2014 be just like 2013? Apart from attending conferences all operations on Hair stimulating complex have halted! 
> 
> I wish we didn't even know about Histogen...that way we wouldn't be so disappointed in not being able to use it, even though the science is solid and efficacy is proven 
> 
> Thinning87 I know you hate it when I make these posts BUT I had to...getting so tired of waiting when we are still where we were exactly 12 months ago!


 We still have CB!
Only correct vehicle needed to be found out.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Guys we're 4 days from Dec 2013. It's now 12 months since Phase 1/2a ended. Histogen has not announced any news about their estimated date for initiation of Phase 2b. There is no draft protocol either. Their merger deal fell through as well. 
> 
> How do you guys feel? Will 2014 be just like 2013? Apart from attending conferences all operations on Hair stimulating complex have halted! 
> 
> I wish we didn't even know about Histogen...that way we wouldn't be so disappointed in not being able to use it, even though the science is solid and efficacy is proven 
> 
> Thinning87 I know you hate it when I make these posts BUT I had to...getting so tired of waiting when we are still where we were exactly 12 months ago!


 They just had a merger with another company, I am sure they are busy with a lot of paper work atm.

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## Javert

> They just had a merger with another company, I am sure they are busy with a lot of paper work atm.


 Really?

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Really?


 


> Stratus Media Group and Histogen Execute Letter of Intent for Biotechnology Merger
> 
> LOS ANGELES, October 07, 2013 - Stratus Media Group, Inc. (OTCQB:SMDI) announced today that it was planning to expand its entrance into the biotechnology industry with the execution of a letter of intent between the Company and Histogen, Inc., a regenerative medicine company developing innovative therapies for conditions including hair loss and cancer.
> The non-binding letter of intent outlines the primary terms of a merger of San Diego-based Histogen into Stratus, to be renamed Restorgenex Corporation. The letter of intent has been approved by the board of directors of both companies, and the parties are engaged in completing a formal merger agreement.
> Histogen's solutions are based upon the products of cells grown under proprietary conditions that mimic the embryonic environment, including low oxygen and suspension. The technology focuses on stimulating a patient's own stem cells by delivering a proprietary complex of proteins that have been shown to support stem cell growth and differentiation. Histogen's lead product, Hair Stimulating Complex (HSC) has shown success in two Company-sponsored clinical trials as an injectable treatment for alopecia. In addition, the human multipotent cell conditioned media produced through Histogen's process can be found in skincare products including ReGenica, which is distributed by Suneva Medical in partnership with Obagi Medical Products.
> "Histogen's technology platform opens a spectrum of potential product opportunities in both aesthetics and therapeutics, an ideal fit with our vision for Restorgenex," said Sol J. Barer, Ph.D., who will assume the position of Chairman of the Board of Restorgenex effective November 1, 2013. "The expertise of the Histogen team in developing regenerative products from concept to market, along with the success Histogen has already found in skincare partnering, will add significant value to our Company."
> 
> Following successful completion of this proposed merger, the company's goal is to build Restorgenex into a world-class cosmeceutical and pharmaceutical company in the large and expanding fields of dermatology and hair restoration. The parties intend to move toward a formal merger agreement in which Histogen would become a wholly-owned subsidiary, Histogen founder Gail K. Naughton, Ph.D. would assume the position of Chief Executive Officer of Restorgenex, and the corporate headquarters of Restorgenex would be located in San Diego. The merger will require, among other things, the satisfaction of customary closing conditions including the approval of Histogen's shareholders.
> "I am very excited about the potential of a merger between Histogen and Restorgenex, and look forward to moving into the next stage," said Dr. Naughton. "It is an honor to be working with biotechnology visionaries Dr. Sol Barer and Isaac Blech, and to have them recognize the promise of Histogen's products is a true testament to the unique and exciting nature of our technology."
> ...


 October the 7th.

The reason why there could be a delay, because they now need to figure out the best way forward. Business plan etc.

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## FearTheLoss

> October the 7th.
> 
> The reason why there could be a delay, because they now need to figure out the best way forward. Business plan etc.


 Yes, but then this company recently dropped them.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Yes, but then this company recently dropped them.


 Source?

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## Duke

> Source?


 http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthr...t=14785&page=3

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## crafter

if Histo have lost funding then that will set them back at least 2 years, depending on if they find a backer, or they'll just go same way as Aderans

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## Thinning87

> Guys we're 4 days from Dec 2013. It's now 12 months since Phase 1/2a ended. Histogen has not announced any news about their estimated date for initiation of Phase 2b. There is no draft protocol either. Their merger deal fell through as well. 
> 
> How do you guys feel? Will 2014 be just like 2013? Apart from attending conferences all operations on Hair stimulating complex have halted! 
> 
> I wish we didn't even know about Histogen...that way we wouldn't be so disappointed in not being able to use it, even though the science is solid and efficacy is proven 
> 
> Thinning87 I know you hate it when I make these posts BUT I had to...getting so tired of waiting when we are still where we were exactly 12 months ago!


 Well even if we all told you we feel the same way, what difference would it make? I have no doubts they are working on this as hard as they can. Things hardly ever go as planned and histogen is no exception.

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## baldingatseventeen

I'm a little confused.

As stated previously, this was intended to be a reverse takeover between Histogen and Stratus. To my understanding, a reverse takeover occurs when a smaller company on the rise wants to enter the stock market without all the bureaucracy of securing an IPO. 

I understand that this means Histogen won't be able to attract public funding for now but how does this in any way mean that the company is shutting down, or even losing investment money in the long run? I don't see why this couldn't have simply been a bureaucratic problem or disagreement with Stratus (the company that Histogen is effectively taking over, NOT receiving investment from). Some of the posts here seem to indicate that people think Stratus was investing in Histogen.

Those of you know more than me, do you know for certain that Histogen being unable to secure public funding from stock options will hinder the company's development? If so, how much of an impact do you think it will have?

Perhaps it was Histogen who decided to call off the merger because they decided an alternative business plan was better?

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## HairBane

> I'm a little confused.
> 
> As stated previously, this was intended to be a reverse takeover between Histogen and Stratus. To my understanding, a reverse takeover occurs when a smaller company on the rise wants to enter the stock market without all the bureaucracy of securing an IPO. 
> 
> I understand that this means Histogen won't be able to attract public funding for now but how does this in any way mean that the company is shutting down, or even losing investment money in the long run? I don't see why this couldn't have simply been a bureaucratic problem or disagreement with Stratus (the company that Histogen is effectively taking over, NOT receiving investment from). Some of the posts here seem to indicate that people think Stratus was investing in Histogen.
> 
> Those of you know more than me, do you know for certain that Histogen being unable to secure public funding from stock options will hinder the company's development? If so, how much of an impact do you think it will have?
> 
> Perhaps it was Histogen who decided to call off the merger because they decided an alternative business plan was better?


 The CEO has said before that they need more funding. I think the reason people are worried is because a reverse merger can be misconstrued as a desperate move for companies that can't afford to get funding via other means.

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## Vox

> The CEO has said before that they need more funding. I think the reason people are worried is because a reverse merger can be misconstrued as a desperate move for companies that can't afford to get funding via other means.


 Here it is clearly stated:

_The greater number of financing options available to publicly held companies is a primary reason to undergo a reverse takeover._

As per their CEO, it is not a secret that Histogen has trouble to get the appropriate funds to pursue research. Their reverse merge attempt should be considered in this light, although it does not imply that they are shutting anything down for the moment. But delays are very likely to occur.

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## huawei

She'll be right. 

The reality is that stratus are more or less dead in the water. Histogen have other things going on as well, not just their HSC, so funding will come in time. 

 :Smile:

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## HairBane

> She'll be right. 
> 
> The reality is that stratus are more or less dead in the water. Histogen have other things going on as well, not just their HSC, so funding will come in time.


 Aderans had a lot of technology too, but they shut down due to financial issues. That said, the fact that Histogen are maybe only 1 trial away from making some money with their product in Asia means that Gail will do whatever it takes to see it through. She's very experienced with this sort of thing from what I've heard - and HSC is the best near-term solution to early MPB I've seen.

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## crafter

> Here it is clearly stated:
> 
> _The greater number of financing options available to publicly held companies is a primary reason to undergo a reverse takeover._
> 
> As per their CEO, it is not a secret that Histogen has trouble to get the appropriate funds to pursue research. Their reverse merge attempt should be considered in this light, although it does not imply that they are shutting anything down for the moment. But delays are very likely to occur.


 delays?

there's very little chance of them starting phase2 next year - probably pushed that back by 2/3 years

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## 35YrsAfter

> Aderans had a lot of technology too, but they shut down due to financial issues. That said, the fact that Histogen are maybe only 1 trial away from making some money with their product in Asia means that Gail will do whatever it takes to see it through. She's very experienced with this sort of thing from what I've heard - and HSC is the best near-term solution to early MPB I've seen.


 The Aderans folks put out an encouraging video presentation of their technology about 8 years ago.  After watching this presentation, I came away with the impression that they had already pretty much achieved their goals.  Apparently not.  It would be interesting to know what technical difficulties they ran into.  As far as Histogen goes, Dr. Cole doesn't have much confidence in what they have been able to achieve so far.  

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
I am not a doctor and the content of my posts are my opinions, not medical advice.
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.  Ask for Chuck

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## Pentarou

> delays?
> 
> there's very little chance of them starting phase2 next year - probably pushed that back by 2/3 years


 Looks like it, yes. It's going to be a miracle if we get this by 2020 in any jurisdiction.

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## hellouser

> Looks like it, yes. It's going to be a miracle if we get this by 2020 in any jurisdiction.


 My god. Why are they allowing all these roadblocks or WHAT is the reason for them?

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## crafter

aderans gone, histo probably gone, so wont get my hopes up for replicel.

Apparently there can't be  much money in these treatments.

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## CAlex

Has Histogen seriously been derailed that much?  This caught me off guard.

I always thought the 2015/2016 Asia release was basically guaranteed and just the north American timeline was more of a up in the air type situation due to red tape and tighter trials.

Histogen was the one I was always most excited for. IS this just the forum spazzing out or is Histogen way off course for the 2015/16 asia release?

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## crafter

> Has Histogen seriously been derailed that much?  This caught me off guard.
> 
> I always thought the 2015/2016 Asia release was basically guaranteed and just the north American timeline was more of a up in the air type situation due to red tape and tighter trials.
> 
> Histogen was the one I was always most excited for. IS this just the forum spazzing out or is Histogen way off course for the 2015/16 asia release?


 in 2007/8 i and many were excited about intercytex and aderans.  This is just history repeating itself.

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## HairBane

> Has Histogen seriously been derailed that much?  This caught me off guard.
> 
> I always thought the 2015/2016 Asia release was basically guaranteed and just the north American timeline was more of a up in the air type situation due to red tape and tighter trials.
> 
> Histogen was the one I was always most excited for. IS this just the forum spazzing out or is Histogen way off course for the 2015/16 asia release?


 It's partly spazzing I think. All it means is that Histogen are back to where they were before the reverse merger, doesn't it? They've always had trouble getting funding, as a lot of small biotech companies with all their major products going through trials tend to. Provided they didn't put all their eggs in one basket with the restorgenex thing, they should have a plan B and C. They made it through phase 1 without going public, so maybe they'll just look elsewhere for funding and do what they did before. Sure, this whole thing might have set them back a few months, but they're professionals who understand the industry and what it takes to get a product through to market/FDA approval and they'll have thought things through I'm sure. They still have a potentially billion-dollar product that's just 2-3 years away from a release.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> The Aderans folks put out an encouraging video presentation of their technology about 8 years ago.  After watching this presentation, I came away with the impression that they had already pretty much achieved their goals.  Apparently not.  It would be interesting to know what technical difficulties they ran into.  As far as Histogen goes, Dr. Cole doesn't have much confidence in what they have been able to achieve so far.  
> 
> 35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
> forhair.com
> Cole Hair Transplant
> 1045 Powers Place
> Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
> Phone 678-566-1011
> email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
> ...


 What's the alternative?

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## oscar32

> What's the alternative?


 I would like to know also

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## Thinning87

> Has Histogen seriously been derailed that much?  This caught me off guard.
> 
> I always thought the 2015/2016 Asia release was basically guaranteed and just the north American timeline was more of a up in the air type situation due to red tape and tighter trials.
> 
> Histogen was the one I was always most excited for. IS this just the forum spazzing out or is Histogen way off course for the 2015/16 asia release?


 So today you learned a new lesson: making up facts and timelines about a cure isn't always the best way to approach the problem. 

Congratulations!

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## 35YrsAfter

> What's the alternative?


 Earlier today I asked Dr. Cole if Histogen presented anything new at the October, 2013 hair restoration surgeon's conference in San Francisco.  He said they were a no-show.  I personally hope that something better than Propecia, Avodart, Rogaine and PRP will come our way soon.  Ideally, I'd like to see things move a LOT faster than they are.  There have actually been many studies reporting success.  I know there were some cancer concerns related to injecting bioengineered stem cell concoctions into scalps. The FDA approval process can sometimes be stalled by any number of technical issues.

As for now, advancements in regenerative medicine appear to be having the greatest impact on the future of hair restoration.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
I am not a doctor and the content of my posts are my opinions, not medical advice.
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.  Ask for Chuck

----------


## Thinning87

No need to ask mr. Cole we all know how to use QuickTime on our computers. Thanks mr insider trying to sell hair transplants!

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## Scientalk56

> Guys we're 4 days from Dec 2013. It's now 12 months since Phase 1/2a ended. Histogen has not announced any news about their estimated date for initiation of Phase 2b. There is no draft protocol either. Their merger deal fell through as well. 
> 
> How do you guys feel? Will 2014 be just like 2013? Apart from attending conferences all operations on Hair stimulating complex have halted! 
> 
> I wish we didn't even know about Histogen...that way we wouldn't be so disappointed in not being able to use it, even though the science is solid and efficacy is proven 
> 
> Thinning87 I know you hate it when I make these posts BUT I had to...getting so tired of waiting when we are still where we were exactly 12 months ago!


 That's how i feel too...  :Frown:  I had belief in Histogen..

All we can do is to ask Spencer to interview Gail Naughton to get answers... So we could have a better picture of what's happening..

----------


## Kiwi

> Earlier today I asked Dr. Cole if Histogen presented anything new at the October, 2013 hair restoration surgeon's conference in San Francisco.  He said they were a no-show.  I personally hope that something better than Propecia, Avodart, Rogaine and PRP will come our way soon.  Ideally, I'd like to see things move a LOT faster than they are.  There have actually been many studies reporting success.  I know there were some cancer concerns related to injecting bioengineered stem cell concoctions into scalps. The FDA approval process can sometimes be stalled by any number of technical issues.
> 
> As for now, advancements in regenerative medicine appear to be having the greatest impact on the future of hair restoration.
> 
> 35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
> forhair.com
> Cole Hair Transplant
> 1045 Powers Place
> Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
> ...


 Who cares what Cole thinks about Histogen.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Earlier today I asked Dr. Cole if Histogen presented anything new at the October, 2013 hair restoration surgeon's conference in San Francisco.  He said they were a no-show.  I personally hope that something better than Propecia, Avodart, Rogaine and PRP will come our way soon.  Ideally, I'd like to see things move a LOT faster than they are.  There have actually been many studies reporting success.  I know there were some cancer concerns related to injecting bioengineered stem cell concoctions into scalps. The FDA approval process can sometimes be stalled by any number of technical issues.
> 
> As for now, advancements in regenerative medicine appear to be having the greatest impact on the future of hair restoration.
> 
> 35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
> forhair.com
> Cole Hair Transplant
> 1045 Powers Place
> Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
> ...


 

Is Dr. Cole continuing to research donor regeneration with ACell use? and is he planning on providing proof?

Thanks, FTL

----------


## whatsgoingon

didn't a video from a histogen's conference of some sort say , and I paraphrase, "HSC is built off of  dermatitis methods that are already available  "

so my question is, since there are community trials for rollers and RU, why not do some research into what they are using and do our own trials?

Of course I understand there is more than just that, but i think the roundabout cost for HSC is 6k per application. But again that was based off of a 2010/11 vid I viewed. Anyways, just a thought.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> Who cares what Cole thinks about Histogen.


 Obviously you don't.

People who become fans of companies in the early stages of product marketing need to realize that doctors such as Dr. Cole will support and utilize effective proven products such as ACell, PRP, hyaluronic acid, ATP and HypoThermosol.  Although Dr. Cole has developed many of his own surgical instruments, he is not directly involved in the manufacture and development of the aforementioned medical products. Safe and effective medical products get the green light here.

We want better results for patients, so if it's Aderans or Histogen, bring it on.  As safe, proven and effective products become available, Dr. Cole will consider including them in his hair restoration surgery practice.  Dr. Cole has a degree in Biology and I have found his assessments to be trustworthy and accurate.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
I am not a doctor and the content of my posts are my opinions, not medical advice.
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.  Ask for Chuck

----------


## hellouser

> People who become fans of companies in the early stages of product marketing need to realize that doctors such as Dr. Cole will support and utilize effective proven products such as ACell, PRP, hyaluronic acid, ATP and HypoThermosol.


 But none of those products are actually either effective or proven.

----------


## HairBane

> People who become fans of companies in the early stages of product marketing need to realize that doctors such as Dr. Cole will support and utilize *effective proven products* such as ACell, PRP, hyaluronic acid, ATP and HypoThermosol.  Although Dr. Cole has developed many of his own surgical instruments, he is not directly involved in the manufacture and development of the aforementioned medical products. Safe and effective medical products get the green light here.


 lol. Does he also use laser comb and trx2?

Dr. Cole can say what he wants about HSC, it's already proven strong efficacy in trials and shows a lot of promise as a cure for early norwoods. He's probably just threatened by things like this.

----------


## hellouser

> lol. Does he also use laser comb and trx2?
> 
> Dr. Cole can say what he wants about HSC, it's already proven strong efficacy in trials and shows a lot of promise as a cure for early norwoods. *He's probably just threatened by things like this.*


 More than likely the case. And about time too; out with the old, in with the new. There's really no point in offering ineffective treatments when superior stuff can be used. Would anyone go for an FUT if Pilofocus really did have regeneration?

I mean, it'd take a while before it would catch on but....

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> But none of those products are actually either effective or proven.


 They have in our studies.  For instance ACell without hyaluronic acid proved to be about 75% less effective in promoting follicle regeneration.  PRP for instance, caught the attention of hair restoration physicians because it is proven to promote healing.  Hair transplant doctors began using PRP because it promotes healing and discovered that in some patients, it increased hair shaft diameter.

----------


## hellouser

> They have in our studies.  For instance ACell without hyaluronic acid proved to be about 75% less effective in promoting follicle regeneration.  PRP for instance, caught the attention of hair restoration physicians because it is proven to promote healing.  Hair transplant doctors began using PRP because it promotes healing and discovered that in some patients, it increased hair shaft diameter.
> 
> 35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
> Cole Hair Transplant
> 1045 Powers Place
> Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
> Phone 678-566-1011
> I am not a doctor and the content of my posts are my opinions, not medical advice.
> Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.


 Can you show us a case from Dr. Cole of an NW6 going back to NW1 with 40 grafs per sq. centimetre?

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> Can you show us a case from Dr. Cole of an NW6 going back to NW1 with 40 grafs per sq. centimetre?


 Can you show me a case where Histogen, Aderans, or ANYONE has taken a NW6 going back to NW1 with 40 grafts per sq. centimeter?

We continue with ACell studies in order to improve follicle regeneration from its current average of about 50%.  At this current stage, ACell preserves donor hair.

----------


## hellouser

> Can you show me a case where Histogen, Aderans, or ANYONE has taken a NW6 going back to NW1 with 40 grafts per sq. centimeter?


 I wasn't asking about Histogen, I was asking about your claims about regeneration.

Can you tell us if Dr. Cole has a NW6 to NW1 case based on regeneration with PRP or not?

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> lol. Does he also use laser comb and trx2?
> He's probably just threatened by things like this.


 I could certainly use more hair.  I don't feel threatened in any way by a major breakthrough in hair restoration.  I want Histogen to be wildly successful.  I hope the employees of Histogen all become billionaires.  Success will happen one day and it will either put hair transplant doctors out of business or radically change their approach to hair restoration.  When this does happen and really bald guys start showing up at work with thick, full heads of hair, the restoration industry will be forever changed.  Histogen may possibly be on to something.  Last year, they couldn't present convincing proof of anything. 

I saw the film "Tucker".  This type of thing does happen.  To my knowledge there is no hair transplant "Mafia" fighting a cure so doctors can stay in business.

----------


## HairBane

> I could certainly use more hair.  I don't feel threatened in any way by a major breakthrough in hair restoration.  I want Histogen to be wildly successful.  I hope the employees of Histogen all become billionaires.  Success will happen one day and it will either put hair transplant doctors out of business or radically change their approach to hair restoration.  When this does happen and really bald guys start showing up at work with thick, full heads of hair, the restoration industry will be forever changed.  Histogen may possibly be on to something.  Last year, they couldn't present convincing proof of anything.


 I didn't mean you, I meant Dr. Cole. He's pretty much out of a job if an injectable cure happens, so obviously he'd be threatened by it. I don't know what you do but I assume you're not a surgeon so why would you be threatened?

I've seen some pretty convincing pictures and figures from Histogen, but they're still in trials and haven't even done a dosing trial yet. We need innovation like that, not stagnant FUT dragons afraid of losing their earnings.

----------


## hellouser

> I didn't mean you, I meant Dr. Cole. He's pretty much out of a job if an injectable cure happens, so obviously he'd be threatened by it. I don't know what you do but I assume you're not a surgeon so why would you be threatened?
> 
> I've seen some pretty convincing pictures and figures from Histogen, but they're still in trials and haven't even done a dosing trial yet. We need innovation like that, not stagnant FUT dragons afraid of losing their earnings.


 Dr. Cole has made plenty of cash in his lifetime off of hair loss sufferers. Time for a new market to emerge. I really have no sympathies for businessmen; because thats why they ultimately are. They're in it for the money.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> I wasn't asking about Histogen, I was asking about your claims about regeneration.
> 
> Can you tell us if Dr. Cole has a NW6 to NW1 case based on regeneration with PRP or not?


 We didn't develop or create extracellular matrix products (ACell).  Regeneration is not solely Dr. Cole's claim.  ACell is approved by the FDA as a regenerative product.  Well-known doctors for example, Dr. Cooley, Dr. Mwamba, and Dr. Wesley acknowledge ACell's regenerative properties.  If you have a problem with ACell's claims, you should contact the Food and Drug Administration.

It's like a race car driver making a statement that a motor oil product reduces friction.  If people want proof, go the manufacturer of the oil additive, not the race car driver.  We publish studies to improve treatments for patients.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> Dr. Cole has made plenty of cash in his lifetime off of hair loss sufferers. Time for a new market to emerge. I really have no sympathies for businessmen; because thats why they ultimately are. They're in it for the money.


 If you worked here and saw the number of pro-bono surgeries Dr. Cole performs on men who have been screwed up by other doctors and can't afford surgery, it might just change your cynical tone.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> I wasn't asking about Histogen, I was asking about your claims about regeneration.
> 
> Can you tell us if Dr. Cole has a NW6 to NW1 case based on regeneration with PRP or not?


 PRP is not a regenerative product.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> I didn't mean you, I meant Dr. Cole. He's pretty much out of a job if an injectable cure happens.
> 
> We need innovation like that, not stagnant FUT dragons afraid of losing their earnings.


 There are enough men scarred by bad hair transplant surgery performed by butchers over the years to keep Dr. Cole busy well into retirement.  I doubt Histogen or any other injectable will make scars, plugs and wrong hair angles magically go away.  BTW. Dr. Cole doesn't perform FUT.  Dr. Cole only performs FUE.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
I am not a doctor and the content of my posts are my opinions, not medical advice.
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.  Ask for Chuck

----------


## hellouser

> There are enough men scarred by bad hair transplant surgery performed by butchers over the years to keep Dr. Cole busy well into retirement. * I doubt Histogen or any otherinjectable will make scars*, plugs and wrong hair angles *magically go away*.  BTW. Dr. Cole doesn't perform FUT.  Dr. Cole only performs FUE.
> 
> 35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
> forhair.com
> Cole Hair Transplant
> 1045 Powers Place
> Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
> Phone 678-566-1011
> email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
> ...


 I've got diabetic friends whom have been injecting all their life. I've never seen a single scar on them.

----------


## hellouser

> PRP is not a regenerative product.


 So then logically Dr. Cole doesn't get regeneration and NW6 - NW1 has never happened unless a patient's donor hair had a large area of a density of 150 grafts per sq. centimetre.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> I've got diabetic friends whom have been injecting all their life. I've never seen a single scar on them.


 Is English your first language?  You totally misunderstood what I stated.  I didn't say injections cause scarring.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
I am not a doctor and the content of my posts are my opinions, not medical advice.
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.  Ask for Chuck

----------


## hellouser

> Is English your first language?  You totally misunderstood what I stated.  I didn't say injections cause scarring.
> 
> 35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
> forhair.com
> Cole Hair Transplant
> 1045 Powers Place
> Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
> Phone 678-566-1011
> email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
> ...


 English is actually my _THIRD_ language and I'm quite confident your comprehension of it is inferior to mine. If you're going to try and ridicule me with a thinly veiled insult, you may want to do it using an account that doesn't represent Dr. Cole's business clinic on a public forum.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> English is actually my _THIRD_ language and I'm quite confident your comprehension of it is inferior to mine. If you're going to try and ridicule me with a thinly veiled insult, you may want to do it using an account that doesn't represent Dr. Cole's business clinic on a public forum.


 Then explain to me how you interpreted my statement:
"There are enough men scarred by bad hair transplant surgery performed by butchers over the years to keep Dr. Cole busy well into retirement. I doubt Histogen or any other injectable will make scars, plugs and wrong hair angles magically go away. BTW. Dr. Cole doesn't perform FUT. Dr. Cole only performs FUE."

How did you read from the above quoted post, that I even implied, injections cause scarring?

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
I am not a doctor and the content of my posts are my opinions, not medical advice.
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.  Ask for Chuck

----------


## hellouser

> Then explain to me how you interpreted my statement:
> "There are enough men scarred by bad hair transplant surgery performed by butchers over the years to keep Dr. Cole busy well into retirement. I doubt Histogen or any other injectable will make scars, plugs and wrong hair angles magically go away. BTW. Dr. Cole doesn't perform FUT. Dr. Cole only performs FUE."
> 
> How did you read from the above quoted post, that I even implied, injections cause scarring?
> 
> 35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
> forhair.com
> Cole Hair Transplant
> 1045 Powers Place
> ...


 Semantics. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/semantics

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Then explain to me how you interpreted my statement:
> "There are enough men scarred by bad hair transplant surgery performed by butchers over the years to keep Dr. Cole busy well into retirement. I doubt Histogen or any other injectable will make scars, plugs and wrong hair angles magically go away. BTW. Dr. Cole doesn't perform FUT. Dr. Cole only performs FUE."
> 
> How did you read from the above quoted post, that I even implied, injections cause scarring?
> 
> 35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
> forhair.com
> Cole Hair Transplant
> 1045 Powers Place
> ...


 Hell, you did misunderstand him. I realize why everyone's tensions are high as this disease can be quite frustrating, but I have no doubts that doctor Cole is one of the best in his field and that is because of how much he cares about his patients. He offers prp acell as a stand alone treatment at the price it costs him to do it, because it isn't completely proven. He is one of few surgeons in the USA that are trying to improve the field instead of just raking in money and performing mediocre results. 

34YrsAfter, could you give a little more information on Dr. Cole's claims? Is he planning on presenting evidence that he is, in fact, getting regeneration at the numbers he says he is? Case studies?

Also, if the average patient is getting 50% regeneration, why is he still so cautious treating younger patients? with 50% regeneration, he could give just about everyone at least decent results wtih full coverage.

----------


## hellouser

> Hell, you did misunderstand him. I realize why everyone's tensions are high as this disease can be quite frustrating, but I have no doubts that doctor Cole is one of the best in his field and that is because of how much he cares about his patients. He offers prp acell as a stand alone treatment at the price it costs him to do it, because it isn't completely proven. He is one of few surgeons in the USA that are trying to improve the field instead of just raking in money and performing mediocre results.


 That's fine, I read it as him meaning that scarring will be a thing of the past. Also his use of '"There are enough men scarred by bad hair transplant surgery.." had me thinking of the double meaning of 'scarred' (not the literal meaning) which also looks like 'scared' suggesting that men back away from FUE/FUT surgeries.

Doesn't matter, if he's going to get paid by Dr. Cole to solicit on BTT, he shouldn't be coming off as an ass in the process.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> That's fine, I read it as him meaning that scarring will be a thing of the past. Also his use of '"There are enough men scarred by bad hair transplant surgery.." had me thinking of the double meaning of 'scarred' (not the literal meaning) which also looks like 'scared' suggesting that men back away from FUE/FUT surgeries.
> 
> Doesn't matter, if he's going to get paid by Dr. Cole to solicit on BTT, he shouldn't be coming off as an ass in the process.


 Respect is a two-way street.

----------


## hellouser

> Respect is a two-way street.


 No comment.

----------


## FearTheLoss

35YrsAfter, could you answer my previous question please.

----------


## Tenma

If this Cole guy is getting 50&#37; regen, he solved the donor problem for 90% of cases and should be all over the news by now. 

So, my question is: were are the pics ilustrating the espectacular paradigm shifting  advance in hair restoration this Dr. has been able to achieved? 

At least Wesley is waiting for his trials to finish before speaking about percents.

----------


## hellouser

> If this Cole guy is getting 50% regen, he solved the donor problem for 90% of cases and should be all over the news by now. 
> 
> So, my question is: were are the pics ilustrating the espectacular paradigm shifting  advance in hair restoration this Dr. has been able to achieved? 
> 
> At least Wesley is waiting for his trials to finish before speaking about percents.


 I asked this question and didn't receive a straight answer. I'm still waiting for a proper answer... would like to see NW6 -> NW1

----------


## greatjob!

> We continue with ACell studies in order to improve follicle regeneration from its current average of about 50%.  At this current stage, ACell preserves donor hair.


 


> We didn't develop or create extracellular matrix products (ACell).  Regeneration is not solely Dr. Cole's claim.  ACell is approved by the FDA as a regenerative product.  Well-known doctors for example, Dr. Cooley, Dr. Mwamba, and Dr. Wesley acknowledge ACell's regenerative properties.  If you have a problem with ACell's claims, you should contact the Food and Drug Administration.
> 
> It's like a race car driver making a statement that a motor oil product reduces friction.  If people want proof, go the manufacturer of the oil additive, not the race car driver.  We publish studies to improve treatments for patients.


 I respect Dr. Cole for his willingness to research and adopt new techniques and I do believe if Histogen is successful he will be one of the first in line to offer it. However to be fair ACell is not aproved for and has never claimed that it can regenerate hair follicles. It's used for wound healing and Dr. Cole and other doctors are testing it's ability to regenerate follicles.

Also I have heard Dr. Cole and you claim on here many times that you are getting 50+% regeneration rates, but I have yet to see any evidence to back those claims up. Do you guys have concrete evidence where that figure was derived from, or is this just an estimate from anecdotal evidence? 50% regeneration is a pretty remarkable claim and as such should require remarkable evidence to back it up, otherwise you guys just sound like Dr. Nigam.

----------


## Tenma

> otherwise you guys just sound like Dr. Nigam.


 Couldn't agree more

----------


## Kiwi

> I asked this question and didn't receive a straight answer. I'm still waiting for a proper answer... would like to see NW6 -> NW1


 We've dragged Nigram over the coals to show us proof. Time Cole showed us proof now...

----------


## hellouser

> We've dragged Nigram over the coals to show us proof. Time Cole showed us proof now...


 +1

Arashi's investigative skills would be of great help. Perhaps a 50 graft test would be beneficial?

----------


## HairBane

lol oh man, 35yearsafter you've really dropped cole in it. terrible publicity.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> lol oh man, 35yearsafter you've really dropped cole in it. terrible publicity.


 Not terrible publicity if he can back up his claims.

----------


## greatjob!

> lol oh man, 35yearsafter you've really dropped cole in it. terrible publicity.


 


> Not terrible publicity if he can back up his claims.


 Cole literally says the same thing almost daily on here. The sad thing is that they make claims of achieving 50+% donor regeneration on a thread that they are posting prolifically on, and then someone asks for evidence to validate their claims and then they magically disappear, so I would be very surprised if either of them posted on this thread again.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> Cole literally says the same thing almost daily on here. The sad thing is that they make claims of achieving 50+% donor regeneration on a thread that they are posting prolifically on, and then someone asks for evidence to validate their claims and then they magically disappear, so I would be very surprised if either of them posted on this thread again.


 A sound advice I hear repeatedly in the hair loss forums is. "Do your research".

Here are some useful search terms I have used in Google:
regenerative medicine
hair follicle regeneration
extracellular matrix
ACell regenerative

Regenerative medicine is a reality.  Why not hair follicles?  Dr. Cole is not the only doctor who affirms the regenerative properties of ACell. Dr. Wesley, for instance placed a still image of follicle regeneration in his Pilofocus video presentation.

Dr. Cole began using ACell because it reduces hypopigmentation in the donor sites.  He noticed that when his patients came back for a second surgery the donor areas looked fuller than they should have been.  It was at that point he began counting and documenting hair growing from his patient's extraction sites.  At Dr. Cole's office, we offer a shaven and non-shaven procedure.  When patients return for their next shaven surgery, 8 months to 12 months post-op, Dr. Cole will count hairs growing from extraction sites.

Documentation of our internal observations are kept in an Excel spreadsheet.  10% to 70% follicle regeneration with approximately 50% being the average is calculated from those hair counts.

Our internal studies prove to us that the cost we incur buying ACell's expensive products is worth it for our patients.

I have already posted photos showing hair growing from extraction sites.  I will speak with Dr. Cole on Monday about putting a website together documenting our ACell studies.  With a Website, I can just post a link.

Please examine other accounts of regenerative successes.  Make up your own mind.  If it's not for you, don't use it.  Dr. Cole is not the only source of information about ACell's effectiveness.  Not sure who assigned Dr. Cole the job of proving ACell's effectiveness. Many other doctors are having success with extracellular matrix products.  Some doctors are having limited success because they use full-depth extractions removing all of the stem cells.  Follicle regeneration isn't like were claiming life on Mars, time travel or teleportation.  Hair seems to grow easily all over the body and in places its unwanted.  It's frustrating that it sometimes resists growth where we want it.  I believe that extracellular matrix will play an important role in the future of hair restoration.

Any of you guys live in the Atlanta area?  If so, contact me.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
I am not a doctor and the content of my posts are my opinions, not medical advice.
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> A sound advice I hear repeatedly in the hair loss forums is. "Do your research".
> 
> Here are some useful search terms I have used in Google:
> regenerative medicine
> hair follicle regeneration
> extracellular matrix
> ACell regenerative
> 
> Regenerative medicine is a reality.  Why not hair follicles?  Dr. Cole is not the only doctor who affirms the regenerative properties of ACell. Dr. Wesley, for instance placed a still image of follicle regeneration in his Pilofocus video presentation.
> ...


 If Dr Cole is getting 50% regeneration, does that mean he can perform more aggressive hair transplants.

I am very keen in getting a HT to restore my hairline to a NW1 from 2. But I do not want to be in a situation where I run out of donor hair.

----------


## greatjob!

> A sound advice I hear repeatedly in the hair loss forums is. "Do your research".
> 
> Here are some useful search terms I have used in Google:
> regenerative medicine
> hair follicle regeneration
> extracellular matrix
> ACell regenerative
> 
> Regenerative medicine is a reality.  Why not hair follicles?  Dr. Cole is not the only doctor who affirms the regenerative properties of ACell. Dr. Wesley, for instance placed a still image of follicle regeneration in his Pilofocus video presentation.
> ...


 Thanks for the reply. I apologize for my last post in this thread, it was a little hostile. Its the holidays, it was late and I had been drinking, lol.

I understand the current state of regenerative medicine, I study and work in the biotech field. I'm just saying that to make the statement that ACell is FDA approved and then talk about regenerating follicles in the same sentence is quite misleading since not even ACell or the FDA mention anything about hair follicle regeneration. I'm sure you can understand everyone's skepticism, there are many doctors claiming regeneration, but none showing clear evidence other than their words and a few select pictures. 

I'm sure Dr. Cole is seeing regeneration, its just hard for us to believe the rate of regeneration when its not presented in a clear quantifiable manner. You might want to suggest to Dr. Cole that he thinks about doing a few 50 graft test cases, I'm sure you could even get volunteers from the forums, if I lived in the area I would do it for sure.

 I'm not trying to disprove anything like we were trying to do with Nigam, he had no reputation to stand on and was a liar, obviously Dr. Cole shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence, but it would be nice to get an idea of where regeneration really sits with Dr. Cole and ACell. If it ends up being 20% on the test cases great, if it ends up being 80% great, I wouldn't consider either of you liars since regeneration rates seem to be so variable at this point. Any real evidence of regeneration that can be shown is only going to be good for the industry and help to push the field further.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Thanks for the reply. I apologize for my last post in this thread, it was a little hostile. Its the holidays, it was late and I had been drinking, lol.
> 
> I understand the current state of regenerative medicine, I study and work in the biotech field. I'm just saying that to make the statement that ACell is FDA approved and then talk about regenerating follicles in the same sentence is quite misleading since not even ACell or the FDA mention anything about hair follicle regeneration. I'm sure you can understand everyone's skepticism, there are many doctors claiming regeneration, but none showing clear evidence other than their words and a few select pictures. 
> 
> I'm sure Dr. Cole is seeing regeneration, its just hard for us to believe the rate of regeneration when its not presented in a clear quantifiable manner. You might want to suggest to Dr. Cole that he thinks about doing a few 50 graft test cases, I'm sure you could even get volunteers from the forums, if I lived in the area I would do it for sure.
> 
>  I'm not trying to disprove anything like we were trying to do with Nigam, he had no reputation to stand on and was a liar, obviously Dr. Cole shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence, but it would be nice to get an idea of where regeneration really sits with Dr. Cole and ACell. If it ends up being 20% on the test cases great, if it ends up being 80% great, I wouldn't consider either of you liars since regeneration rates seem to be so variable at this point. Any real evidence of regeneration that can be shown is only going to be good for the industry and help to push the field further.


 
I agree with this, we should put together a website and do a few test cases.

----------


## Thinning87

If anyone cares to talk about histogen here, rather than some phony hair transplant publicity, they are going to present at the stem cell meeting in San Diego this Wednesday at 2:30 pm.

I don't know if they will say something we're interested in besides showing the usual statistics from phase 1/2A.

----------


## I am ready

> I don't know if they will say something we're interested in besides showing the usual statistics from phase 1/2A.


 Do you mean their fake photos?

----------


## Thinning87

> Do you mean their fake photos?


 We have debated this in full. Choose which side you want, I doubt anyone here cares. 

What's important is how do we follow the event, if possible?

----------


## I am ready

> What's important is how do we follow the event, if possible?


 You are right. And you should know that I will keep my fingers crossed for them, but I think they are on the same path as Aderans. :-(

----------


## Sogeking

> We have debated this in full. Choose which side you want, I doubt anyone here cares. 
> 
> What's important is how do we follow the event, if possible?


 Well I am more interested if they are going to comment on the withdrawal from the reverse merger. But somehow I doubt it. There is nothing else they will tell us. Or ofcourse if they know when they will start with phase 2, but that got delayed.

----------


## Thinning87

> Well I am more interested if they are going to comment on the withdrawal from the reverse merger. But somehow I doubt it. There is nothing else they will tell us. Or ofcourse if they know when they will start with phase 2, but that got delayed.


 Yeah that's the whole point why we should follow it! Although honestly it seems to me the last type of place where they would talk about that sort of stuff, publicly I mean. 

The scope of their presence is business development I would presume, so the most we can do is hope they will run into somebody that can help them (seems like a pretty big important event indeed...)

----------


## Scientalk56

I really hope they start phase 2b... that's all i care about.. one year delay is enough...

----------


## k3nk3n

Hey just getting a little bit of topic here but... I remember reading from somewhere that the HSC will begin to loss its effect after a certain period of time.  Does that mean that it will stop growing new hair only? Or does it mean that it will lose the new hair that was grown by the HSC application all together?

----------


## hellouser

> Hey just getting a little bit of topic here but... I remember reading from somewhere that the HSC will begin to loss its effect after a certain period of time.  Does that mean that it will stop growing new hair only? Or does it mean that it will lose the new hair that was grown by the HSC application all together?


 Incorrect.

From the trials that Histogen ran, hair continued to grow up to around a year if not longer.

----------


## moore

> Incorrect.
> 
> From the trials that Histogen ran, hair continued to grow up to around a year if not longer.


 And I suppose, even in the case, having to make a recap every year would be far better than what we currently have. Unless of course you have to go the other corner of the planet to get a refill.

----------


## hellouser

> And I suppose, even in the case, having to make a recap every year would be far better than what we currently have. Unless of course you have to go the other corner of the planet to get a refill.


 I'd much rather go in once a year and get a superior finasteride treatment.. hell, finasteride usually just slows down/stops hair loss.. not much regrowth which Histogen DOES do.

----------


## Scientalk56

Do we have to send a message to the moderator (Winston i guess?) so he can contact Spencer Kobren and suggest him to interview Gail Naughton?!?!

----------


## Kiwi

> Do we have to send a message to the moderator (Winston i guess?) so he can contact Spencer Kobren and suggest him to interview Gail Naughton?!?!


 Winston is just here to protect Ghos interests. He doesn't care about the balding brotherhood  :Wink:

----------


## Scientalk56

The only thing that is getting advanced is my hairloss and my temples. **** all this coming treatmens who give us only false hope..srsly im getting sick of it.

----------


## Thinning87

Just found out now there actually was a link to watch the event live. On the event's website. 

Damn

----------


## HairBane

Did anyone catch the presentation?

----------


## Thinning87

Probably not. Everyone is too busy making timelines we forgot to listen to what they have to say  :Smile:

----------


## hellouser

> Probably not. Everyone is too busy making timelines we forgot to listen to what they have to say


 I want to see those timelines!

----------


## blmars french

that if we are not there a date for the start of the Phase 2b? :Confused: 

mergers or not the company it is or? :Confused: 

ça nous pas si il y a une date pour le debut de la phase 2b ?

les fusions ou pas de l'entreprise ça en est ou ?

----------


## hellouser

Alright, getting tired of reading about speculation and 'researchers' flapping their gums about '5-10 years' bullshit. Lets get down to some business...

From this link:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0076883




> For example, inhibition of the Wnt pathway by ectopic expression of Dkk-1 does not retard skin wound healing, but overexpression of Wnt7a promotes the induction of new hair follicles within the wound bed [14], which is typically referred to as scarless healing [16].


 Which is backed by this article:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture05766.html

*AND NOW THE BIG QUESTION:*

How does one get their hands on WNT7a!?

I wanna see what happens when skin is wounded with, say, dermarolling and then WNT7a injected into the scalp.

----------


## Kiwi

> Alright, getting tired of reading about speculation and 'researchers' flapping their gums about '5-10 years' bullshit. Lets get down to some business...
> 
> From this link:
> 
> http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0076883
> 
> 
> 
> Which is backed by this article:
> ...


 What about that guy who posts here who is a science student???

----------


## cookies

> *AND NOW THE BIG QUESTION:*
> 
> How does one get their hands on WNT7a!?
> 
> I wanna see what happens when skin is wounded with, say, dermarolling and then WNT7a injected into the scalp.


 Introduce the WNT7a gene trough genetic recombination in cells, let them express the gene, isolate and purify the protein and you're done.

----------


## Imalmostbald

I have personally done WNT7A E. Coli derived, not injected but with heavy dermarolling in conjunction with SHH, noggin, FGF-2. Did not work really.

----------


## saintsfan92344

> I have personally done WNT7A E. Coli derived, not injected but with heavy dermarolling in conjunction with SHH, noggin, FGF-2. Did not work really.


 How and where did you get that done? I was just reading a little about wnt7 proteins and they say if introduced before scarring it grows hair, isn't that the cure basically? 
 I am sure that's been discussed, I am not up to snuff on all the science but am trying to learn

----------


## Imalmostbald

Bought it.. There are some biology research companies who carry it, although very expensive. 

Personally I don't know to what paper you are referring to.. But no it surely isn't as simple as getting wnt7a injecting it with wounding and creating de novo hair follicle neogenesis. Idea of follica is to induce neogenesis with wounding through wnt expression indeed. But they are surely still very far away from that. They never proved anything till date.

----------


## hellouser

> Bought it.. There are some biology research companies who carry it, although very expensive. 
> 
> Personally I don't know to what paper you are referring to.. But no it surely isn't as simple as getting wnt7a injecting it with wounding and creating de novo hair follicle neogenesis. Idea of follica is to induce neogenesis with wounding through wnt expression indeed. But they are surely still very far away from that. They never proved anything till date.


 Follica is supposed to rely on FGF-9, not WNT7a. WNT7a is Histogen's method.

----------


## Thinning87

> Bought it.. There are some biology research companies who carry it, although very expensive. 
> 
> Personally I don't know to what paper you are referring to.. But no it surely isn't as simple as getting wnt7a injecting it with wounding and creating de novo hair follicle neogenesis. Idea of follica is to induce neogenesis with wounding through wnt expression indeed. But they are surely still very far away from that. They never proved anything till date.


 Wouldnt ****k around with that stuff

----------


## hellouser

> Wouldnt ****k around with that stuff


 If Histogen is using WNT7a, why wouldnt you yourself?

----------


## Javert

Does anyone know the current status of Histogen? Are they still moving forward?

----------


## Thinning87

> If Histogen is using WNT7a, why wouldnt you yourself?


 Potential dosage related issues, of course. They even publicly announced there is a toxicity factor at certain doses. Why would you test it on yourself without even knowing with certainty how much your body can tolerate

----------


## hellouser

> Potential dosage related issues, of course. They even publicly announced there is a toxicity factor at certain doses. Why would you test it on yourself without even knowing with certainty how much your body can tolerate


 I wouldnt be surprised if it we're in the micrograms. But yeah, it would concern me too. I suppose this is something we'd need to find out from Histogen....

----------


## Imalmostbald

> I wouldnt be surprised if it we're in the micrograms. But yeah, it would concern me too. I suppose this is something we'd need to find out from Histogen....


 They secret the growth factors from fibroblasts and they ain't e.coli derived. You need a lab with proper equipment to replicate them, its not hard to do it though. But on the other hand their results are shit.

----------


## Scientalk56

> Does anyone know the current status of Histogen? Are they still moving forward?


 for now, they're dead. they were supposed to start phase 2b a year ago.

----------


## hellouser

> They secret the growth factors from fibroblasts and they ain't e.coli derived. You need a lab with proper equipment to replicate them, its not hard to do it though. *But on the other hand their results are shit.*


 LOL!

The results are shit compared to what I'd expect in 2013 (a full blown cure thats long overdue) but I would definitely take a Histogen treatment right now.

----------


## Imalmostbald

> LOL!
> 
> The results are shit compared to what I'd expect in 2013 (a full blown cure thats long overdue) but I would definitely take a Histogen treatment right now.


 10% increase.. Its very bad, don't evaluate your opinion of it based on those 2 shit pictures. Those are probably the best results they could achieve. Further than that its a temporary treatment anyway, your still susceptible to constant paracrine alteration through the constant supply of anti androgens. So you would be in need of a anti-androgen of any like or you would lose those already minor beneficial gains. You could do repeated treatments with HSC injections, yes. But what do you think the costs will be  :Wink: ? Again as i said, its nothing special those pictures and ive seen minoxidil results only which are 100x better as their results. 

Your better off taking a hair transplant if you compare them together, especially with donor (hopefully) regen soon imo.

----------


## hellouser

> 10% increase.. Its very bad, don't evaluate your opinion of it based on those 2 shit pictures. Those are probably the best results they could achieve. Further than that its a temporary treatment anyway, your still susceptible to constant paracrine alteration through the constant supply of anti androgens. So you would be in need of a anti-androgen of any like or you would lose those already minor beneficial gains. You could do repeated treatments with HSC injections, yes. But what do you think the costs will be ? Again as i said, its nothing special those pictures and ive seen minoxidil results only which are 100x better as their results.
> 
> Your better off taking a hair transplant if you compare them together, especially with donor (hopefully) regen soon imo.


 Actually, if the growth factors are strong enough, they could and should render DHT ineffective. No need for finasteride or other crap.

----------


## Scientalk56

> 10% increase.. Its very bad, don't evaluate your opinion of it based on those 2 shit pictures. Those are probably the best results they could achieve. Further than that its a temporary treatment anyway, your still susceptible to constant paracrine alteration through the constant supply of anti androgens. So you would be in need of a anti-androgen of any like or you would lose those already minor beneficial gains. You could do repeated treatments with HSC injections, yes. But what do you think the costs will be ? Again as i said, its nothing special those pictures and ive seen minoxidil results only which are 100x better as their results. 
> 
> Your better off taking a hair transplant if you compare them together, especially with donor (hopefully) regen soon imo.


 agree... 10 percent is total bullshit

----------


## JDW

Although looking on the positive 10% is no more loss...not slowing down of loss but stopping it right in its tracks...meaning that you could go down the HT route without worrying about future loss.

----------


## hellouser

> Although looking on the positive 10% is no more loss...not slowing down of loss but stopping it right in its tracks...meaning that you could go down the HT route without worrying about future loss.


 Depends what Norwood you are. For NW5+, the current crop of treatments are disgusting and intolerable.

----------


## Hicks

> Depends what Norwood you are. For NW5+, the current crop of treatments are disgusting and intolerable.


 If you where a nw5 you would need lots of money for a HT. Even if there was donor regeneration/doubling. It's not about the process it's about the process for research and development I.e.overhead.  that being said what incentives would merk or anyone have? Even with fin your target is small once you kick out users that don't get sides. I really don't see the economics why a company would have a better product than fin. Fin is cheap. I really hope I'm wrong with my economics theory.  How much would you guys pay a month to regrow all your hair for the rest of your life?

----------


## hellouser

> If you where a nw5 you would need lots of money for a HT. Even if there was donor regeneration/doubling. It's not about the process it's about the process for research and development I.e.overhead.  that being said what incentives would merk or anyone have? Even with fin your target is small once you kick out users that don't get sides. I really don't see the economics why a company would have a better product than fin. Fin is cheap. I really hope I'm wrong with my economics theory.  *How much would you guys pay a month to regrow all your hair for the rest of your life?*


 A lot.

----------


## win200

> A lot.


 I think I'd go $2k/mo. to regrow permanently down to a NW0 for life.

----------


## strife91

I would be out in the streets selling myself to whoever , looking nice and pretty with a thick nw1 haha just to pay for it. Fml

----------


## TheSwingingGate

> How much would you guys pay a month to regrow all your hair for the rest of your life?


 I would treat it like another car payment.

----------


## greatjob!

I would prostitute myself...

----------


## Hicks

> I would be out in the streets selling myself to whoever , looking nice and pretty with a thick nw1 haha just to pay for it. Fml


 Lol right there with you.

----------


## Vox

> How much would you guys pay a month to regrow all your hair for the rest of your life?


 I am NW7 and I would not give more than $10K to get all my hair back. Of course in this NW grade there is no reasonable solution today.

Baldness should stop being considered as a cosmetic issue. It must gain the status of a health problem to be treated for cheap, reimbursed partly by insurance companies. Just look at the havoc it wrecks in the psychology of younger men and the social problems it creates for them in many developed countries (the U.S.A. and Canada being the flagships in this). Again, _it is not a cosmetic issue_.

----------


## JDW

> Depends what Norwood you are. For NW5+, the current crop of treatments are disgusting and intolerable.


 I hear you man, time to see some sort of progressive advances somewhere.

----------


## hellouser

> I hear you man, time to see some sort of progressive advances somewhere.


 I think our complaints and demands about the current state of the hair loss world and especially biotechs and researchers is falling on deaf ears... they don't seem to care enough to actually put a product out the door but rather stall, delay, backtrack or fold completely.

More important than an advance would be a group of researchers or a biotech that isn't incompetent... like Aderans.

----------


## Atum

> I am NW7 and I would not give more than $10K to get all my hair back. Of course in this NW grade there is no reasonable solution today.
> 
> Baldness should stop being considered as a cosmetic issue. It must gain the status of a health problem to be treated for cheap, reimbursed partly by insurance companies. Just look at the havoc it wrecks in the psychology of younger men and the social problems it creates for them in many developed countries (the U.S.A. and Canada being the flagships in this). Again, _it is not a cosmetic issue_.


 Agreed!!!

You know i recently heard about a guy here that wanted to be a woman. He wanted an operation and all, and i was shocked to found out that apparently a sex change is considered a health problem.  So he gets a big refund for his medication and operation while a hair transplantation or any other form of hair maintaining products is considered cosmetic  What a load of crap!!!

----------


## hellouser

> Agreed!!!
> 
> You know i recently heard about a guy here that wanted to be a woman. He wanted an operation and all, and i was shocked to found out that apparently a sex change is considered a health problem.  So he gets a big refund for his medication and operation while a hair transplantation or any other form of hair maintaining products is considered cosmetic  What a load of crap!!!


 The people that don't want it to be covered are the same assholes privileged in life to HAVE HAIR, and will never understand what it means to be GIMPED by social standards.

----------


## Javert

> for now, they're dead. they were supposed to start phase 2b a year ago.


 Damn.

----------


## Thinning87

> for now, they're dead. they were supposed to start phase 2b a year ago.


 They never said or promised they would start phase two B last year. In fact it would have been pretty much impossible for them to do so as they were barely done with phase 1/2a at that time. 

You're such a woman, always creating negative gossip from your imagination, rather than facts. You always do this dude.

You should just face the fact that all the fake timelines that were made by wishful thinkers on this forum are just what they are, nothing more than people's absolute best scenario hypothesis based on facts they don't even know.

----------


## Scientalk56

> They never said or promised they would start phase two B last year. In fact it would have been pretty much impossible for them to do so as they were barely done with phase 1/2a at that time. 
> 
> You're such a woman, always creating negative gossip from your imagination, rather than facts. You always do this dude.
> 
> You should just face the fact that all the fake timelines that were made by wishful thinkers on this forum are just what they are, nothing more than people's absolute best scenario hypothesis based on facts they don't even know.


 LOL

Well i can wait, but my balding head can't. it just progresses everyday...

and the question is, will i benefit from Histogen in the future, is there any point for waiting them or waiting for any another treatment?!

----------


## hellouser

> and the question is, will i benefit from Histogen in the future, is there any point for waiting them or waiting for any another treatment?!


 You don't have a choice in this regard. The incompetence of these biotechs will have you in limbo until god knows when.

----------


## Scientalk56

well, seems like that..

----------


## Kiwi

> You don't have a choice in this regard. The incompetence of these biotechs will have you in limbo until god knows when.


 I don't blame them I blame FDA and skinmedica for taking them to court and stallung things for a year.

But hey science guy... What's the deal with that drug hello was talking about?

----------


## ryan555

It's neither incompetence  nor the FDA holding them up, it's funding. It's takes a LOT of money to proceed with these things.  They have to raise capital to move forward.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> It's neither incompetence  nor the FDA holding them up, it's funding. It's takes a LOT of money to proceed with these things.  They have to raise capital to move forward.


 What does that mean - they don't have money to continue trials?

----------


## ryan555

> What does that mean - they don't have money to continue trials?


 Pre-revenue pharmaceutical companies have to raise money from investors in order to have the millions of dollars it takes to take these products through trials.  They also have to maintain employees and facilities, which also costs millions a year.  Unfortunately, many of these companies have to spend more time trying to raise the required funds than they do on R and D.  Some of them end up running out of money or just putting the process on hold while they raise cash.  I'm sure Histogen is facing these same challenges.  But it's not as if they are sitting around going "lets play golf all day and make men with hair loss keep fretting for a few more years."

----------


## hellouser

> Pre-revenue pharmaceutical companies have to raise money from investors in order to have the millions of dollars it takes to take these products through trials.  They also have to maintain employees and facilities, which also costs millions a year.  Unfortunately, many of these companies have to spend more time trying to raise the required funds than they do on R and D.  Some of them end up running out of money or just putting the process on hold while they raise cash.  I'm sure Histogen is facing these same challenges.  *But it's not as if they are sitting around going "lets play golf all day and make men with hair loss keep fretting for a few more years."*


 Well, their incredibly terrible outcomes for hitting deadlines would make you think thats all they do. There's nothing to say other than its taking TOO LONG. Its unacceptable at this point.. but that goes for everyone; Replicel, Follica, Aderans (what a failure), Dr. Lauster, etc.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Pre-revenue pharmaceutical companies have to raise money from investors in order to have the millions of dollars it takes to take these products through trials.  They also have to maintain employees and facilities, which also costs millions a year.  Unfortunately, many of these companies have to spend more time trying to raise the required funds than they do on R and D.  Some of them end up running out of money or just putting the process on hold while they raise cash.  I'm sure Histogen is facing these same challenges.  But it's not as if they are sitting around going "lets play golf all day and make men with hair loss keep fretting for a few more years."


 Dont you have shares in histogen?

Arent you concerned that they wont hit the market?

----------


## greatjob!

> Dont you have shares in histogen?
> 
> Arent you concerned that they wont hit the market?


 Histogen isn't a publicly traded company, and Ryan is right. Most companies of this nature are like Histogen, they have to raise capital for each round of clinical trials. They usually have rounds of funding that fund them through a certain point, and then if things go well they have to go through another round of funding to continue. This is the reason they are always presenting at conferences and releasing information in order to drum up interest. Then on the other end of the spectrum you have Follica, who are pretty much completely funded which is why you never hear anything from them.




> Well, their incredibly terrible outcomes for hitting deadlines would make you think thats all they do. There's nothing to say other than its taking TOO LONG. Its unacceptable at this point.. but that goes for everyone; Replicel, Follica, Aderans (what a failure), Dr. Lauster, etc.


 And hellouser can you please cut all the melodramatic whoa is me crap? Yes baldness sucks, yes we all want a cure/treatment but c'mon man give it a rest. Stop blaming everyone else for your problems, if you don't like how things are going then do something about it. Your incessant whining is getting tiresome. You are bordering on tin foil hat territory, yeah sure everyone has a cure they're just sitting on it because they are lazy and incompetent...

----------


## hellouser

> And hellouser can you please cut all the melodramatic whoa is me crap? Yes baldness sucks, yes we all want a cure/treatment but c'mon man give it a rest. Stop blaming everyone else for your problems, if you don't like how things are going then do something about it. Your incessant whining is getting tiresome. You are bordering on tin foil hat territory, yeah sure everyone has a cure they're just sitting on it because they are lazy and incompetent...


 And with that comment:




> greatjob! has now been successfully added to your ignore list. You will now be returned to where you were.

----------


## Kiwi

> It's neither incompetence  nor the FDA holding them up, it's funding. It's takes a LOT of money to proceed with these things.  They have to raise capital to move forward.


 What proof do you have of this?

----------


## hellouser

> It's neither incompetence  nor the FDA holding them up, it's funding. It's takes a LOT of money to proceed with these things.  They have to raise capital to move forward.


 I would define their inability to raise money as a form of incompetence. They've got a product that works (to some degree). What are they doing when they pitch their product to investors? Are they clowning around? Seal the deal, god damn it.

----------


## greatjob!

> And with that comment:


 LOL!!!!

You respond to my request to stop being an overdramatic cry baby with an overdramatic childish move, you're a bigger baby than I thought. Good riddance.

----------


## ryan555

> I would define their inability to raise money as a form of incompetence. They've got a product that works (to some degree). What are they doing when they pitch their product to investors? Are they clowning around? Seal the deal, god damn it.


 I have worked around private equity a considerable amount in my career.  Getting people to write massive checks is extremely difficult no matter how good your product is.  This is even truer when you are pre-revenue.  The further they get toward approval (and accordingly revenue), the easier it will be to raise funds.  At this point, they're probably counting on "believers" who care as much about their products as they do a return on their investment, and there aren't a lot of those investors around.  With all the hysteria and criticism going on in this forum, I can count on one finger the number of people who have actually made an investment in them.  The rest just sit around and criticise their management.  That should tell you something about the difficulty in raising money.

----------


## Kiwi

> I have worked around private equity a considerable amount in my career.  Getting people to write massive checks is extremely difficult no matter how good your product is.  This is even truer when you are pre-revenue.  The further they get toward approval (and accordingly revenue), the easier it will be to raise funds.  At this point, they're probably counting on "believers" who care as much about their products as they do a return on their investment, and there aren't a lot of those investors around.  With all the hysteria and criticism going on in this forum, I can count on one finger the number of people who have actually made an investment in them.  The rest just sit around and criticise their management.  That should tell you something about the difficulty in raising money.


 Dude are you on crack? They sell other products galore - their business is not pre revenue...

Idea... Maybe they want to bootstrap it. That'd not be a bad thing.

----------


## ryan555

> Dude are you on crack? They sell other products galore - their business is not pre revenue...
> 
> Idea... Maybe they want to bootstrap it. That'd not be a bad thing.


 They have a little bit of revenue from their skin product line and that's it.  It's not nearly enough to cover trial costs.  I know what I'm talking about.  You guys are talking out of your asses.

----------


## Kiwi

> They have a little bit of revenue from their skin product line and that's it.  It's not nearly enough to cover trial costs.  I know what I'm talking about.  You guys are talking out of your asses.


 I think you're full of shit. You don't know any more than the rest of us

----------


## Javert

> I think you're full of shit. You don't know any more than the rest of us


 Has anyone contacted this Gail person? That seems like it would be more beneficial than speculation and attacking each other.

----------


## Kiwi

> Has anyone contacted this Gail person? That seems like it would be more beneficial than speculation and attacking each other.


 Nope its my responsibility to smack negative Nancy naysayers on their little know-it-all bottoms.

The dude knows jack about histogens state of affairs. Apparently knows something about raising money and thus thinks he knows it all.

No one here knows so if there is to be speculation let it be positive!

----------


## ryan555

> Nope its my responsibility to smack negative Nancy naysayers on their little know-it-all bottoms.
> 
> The dude knows jack about histogens state of affairs. Apparently knows something about raising money and thus thinks he knows it all.
> 
> No one here knows so if there is to be speculation let it be positive!


 I'm an investor in Histogen.  Read my previous posts.  I'm trying to explain things to you, you arrogant knob.  I'm not negative on them at all, I'm defending them because I know that they have very smart people running their company.

----------


## Kiwi

> I'm an investor in Histogen.  Read my previous posts.  I'm trying to explain things to you, you arrogant knob.  I'm not negative on them at all, I'm defending them because I know that they have very smart people running their company.


 Blah blah blah. Bite me. You're an investor in Histogen? I'm an investor in Histogen. So if you're an investor tell us the road map ya big douche bag. Stop telling us how much you know about investment stuff (the blah blahs) and tell us whats going on. Otherwise you're not really an investor, at least not one that they waste their time telling all the juicy bits, because the REAL investors in Histogen are not spilling their beans in public forums!

----------


## ryan555

> Blah blah blah. Bite me. You're an investor in Histogen? I'm an investor in Histogen. So if you're an investor tell us the road map ya big douche bag. Stop telling us how much you know about investment stuff (the blah blahs) and tell us whats going on. Otherwise you're not really an investor, at least not one that they waste their time telling all the juicy bits, because the REAL investors in Histogen are not spilling their beans in public forums!


 I'm not going to say anything specific to you, partly because I honestly don't know about their exact road map and partly because I don't want to overstep any boundaries.  I am actually an investor in the company, but I do not know every detail over their plans and operations.  If I were a larger player, I'm sure I would know more, but unfortunately I am not wealthy enough to give them the kind of investment that would keep me in the loop on every decision.  However, what I do know for sure is that 1) the primary roadblock for every startup is capital and Histogen are no exception and 2) the management are very smart and motivated to move forward as quickly as possible.  

Now, if it makes you feel good to insult me, question my credibility, and otherwise dumb down the conversation, then that is your prerogative.  I don't really understand the lack of civility and juvenile tone on this website, but I don't really want to dive in there with you.

----------


## Kiwi

> I'm not going to say anything specific to you, partly because I honestly don't know about their exact road map and partly because I don't want to overstep any boundaries.  I am actually an investor in the company, but I do not know every detail over their plans and operations.  If I were a larger player, I'm sure I would know more, but unfortunately I am not wealthy enough to give them the kind of investment that would keep me in the loop on every decision.  However, what I do know for sure is that 1) the primary roadblock for every startup is capital and Histogen are no exception and 2) the management are very smart and motivated to move forward as quickly as possible.  
> 
> Now, if it makes you feel good to insult me, question my credibility, and otherwise dumb down the conversation, then that is your prerogative.  I don't really understand the lack of civility and juvenile tone on this website, but I don't really want to dive in there with you.


 Sorry for insulting you. I thought you were coming across anti histogen for a second there and I'm sick of naysayers on this site. It drives me nuts - the annoying thing that I try to fight on this site is negativity towards solutions like histogen (i'm not so fussed about the personal bickering).

----------


## ryan555

> Sorry for insulting you. I thought you were coming across anti histogen for a second there and I'm sick of naysayers on this site. It drives me nuts - the annoying thing that I try to fight on this site is negativity towards solutions like histogen (i'm not so fussed about the personal bickering).


 I don't know how you got that from what I said.  I am the opposite of anti Histogen.  Not only do I have a vested financial interest in their success, I know some of their management team personally and they're great people.  I really do not know what their exact timeline is and if I did, I wouldn't talk about it on a public forum as you said.   What I do know is that they have a good product and they are busting their humps to move it forward.  I'm just trying to explain some of the challenges that they and all companies like them face.  I'm not sure if they even read any of this stuff, but regardless it's neither fair nor productive to insult and criticize their management.  That's all I'm trying to convey.

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