# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments >  5 months on Propecia (Side Effects - Testicular Atrophy)

## cp9

So basically here's my story.. I have been using propecia for 5 months now ever since I've started noticing hairloss (slight crown thinning and hairline thinning) just before I turned 21. 
I didn't taper onto the drug, instead I took 1mg from day one. There was a massive shed in the beginning which stopped around month 3, and now my hair is thickening up very nicely. 
My libido has decreased slightly but that doesn't really bother me. 
But here's the problem... Recently I've noticed my testicles have actually shrunk in size! Along with some dull pain (very slight, almost unnoticeable) on my lower abdomen. Sure, I've had testicular pain in the past (they were sharper) but they passed in a matter of days and have never shrunk my balls at all... 
My question is, does everyone experience a slight decrease of the size of their testicles?? OR am I able to reverse these side effects if I lowered my dosage or take it EOD instead of Everyday? 
I've actually lowered my dose to 0.5mg today (will continue with 0.5 instead of 1) and will see if anything happens.
I really want to stay on this drug because it's doing great things for my hair. I would greatly appreciated if anyone could give me some advice on how to minimize these side effects. 
I also take:
zinc 30mg a day
magnesium 10mg a day
L-Arginine (1 month on, 1 month off)
Fish oil
Beta-Sitosteral 
Biotin
Lipogaine (at night only)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks for reading!  :Smile:

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## greatjob!

I don't mean to dismiss or discount your sides by any means, they suck, but how do you know you testicles have shrunken? Do you regularly measure the size of your balls?

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## cp9

I'm sure all guys touch (play with) their balls once in a while.. maybe it's just me haha. They feel a lot smaller and softer, also look smaller as well. 
Have you had this issue yourself? 

From my understanding.. they're not producing as much testosterone as they should be because of the increased amount of free flowing testosterone from taking propecia. I really hope lowering the dosage will solve this problem..  :Frown: 

I would love to know if there are any ways around solving this without having to stop taking this drug.

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## hellouser

Don't let the Finasteride bandwagon dumbasses fool you, that shit is the devil's drug. And yes, testicle shrinkage is definitely possible;

http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7044

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## cp9

Oh wow, that's scary... Are there any other alternatives to finasteride then? I really don't want to lose my hair...  :Frown: 

le sigh.

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## hellouser

> Oh wow, that's scary... Are there any other alternatives to finasteride then? I really don't want to lose my hair... 
> 
> le sigh.


 There are really only TWO:

RU58841, which is a topical solution that works as well as finasteride. If it gets into your bloodstream and goes systemic, you might have the same sides, although they happen significantly less and if they do, theyre significantly milder.

CB-03-01
This is a steroid DHT inhibitor but only at the follicle level, nowhere else, so it will have ZERO effect on your johnson, libido, balls, bitch tits, etc. Even if it does get into your bloodstream, it goes benign, so its quite safe... and best of all, approximately 4X as powerful as Finasteride.

Both of these solutions require you make your own vehicle (liquid, usually ethanol in which the compound is dissolved in and then applied topically to penetrate the skin).

Be careful of a particular forum member named Tracey, if she reads this she WILL advise against using a non-FDA approved solution. The product afaik never made it through clinical trials and the drug was shelved. Read more here:

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/html/RU58841experiment.cfm

CB-03-01 is currently being developed by Cosmo Pharmaceuticals and they've reported no side effects in their clinical trials. The only possible side effect is skin atrophy, but the amount of CB you'd use is very little (10mg per 1ml) and the steroid is milder on the skin than the mildest steroid that could even possibly cause skin atrophy. In short, Cosmo knows what they're doing, if this was a long term side effect they wouldn't bring it forth and it wouldnt make it past trials (potentially).

Here are Cosmo's initial results with CB;



Notice hair count rose from 71 to 109 (54&#37; increase) and hair thickness more than doubled from 0.41 to 0.88mm. This was used with iontophoresis... if you can find a device that does it on the scalp, all the more power to you, but for now people are experimenting with a liquid vehicle (dmi/dmso, ethanol/glycol, oleyl/glycol). Interesting is that Cosmo states it will use an anhydrous vehicle, which means it will be a DRY topical application.

Don't expect CB on the market until at least 2016 and thats being generous.

Check my dermarolling thread if you want to experiment with a very safe and potentially far better solution than either:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=13420

It mimics Follica's wounding and FGF-9 procedure to create new hair follicles (though our procedure will most likely stimulate growth from old dorman/miniaturized follicles). Read the whole thread though.

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## cp9

Thanks for the info hellouser! Much appreciated  :Smile: 
I'll definitely look into it.. there's still hope!!

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## greatjob!

> Don't let the Finasteride bandwagon dumbasses fool you, that shit is the devil's drug. And yes, testicle shrinkage is definitely possible;
> 
> http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7044


 How about you blow me for calling me a "Finasteride bandwagon dumbass"! I am neither for or against finasteride. It is a drug and it has it's place. It helps many people and does not help many others. It has worked very well for me, and for other people it has been a nightmare. Like every drug it has it's side effects and some people experience them to different degrees.

I was simply wondering how you could notice "minimal shrinkage" of your balls unless you continually measure your balls, that's all, I was curious.

It is comical however that you call people finasteride bandwagon dumbasses and then as proof of you point of view you post a link from a website that is inhabited by hysterical hypochondriacs who wouldn't be able to get it up if they took a sugar pill because they are crazy.

Don't act like you know me.

To the OP, there are a lot of scary things on propeciahelp and most of them are the rants of crazy people. There are very real side effects of the drug, just like any other drug. If you are experiencing side effects that you can't handle then you should discontinue use. When I was younger I thought about using propecia but got scared off. I lost a ton of hair going from a NW 3 to a NW5/6 and I ended up taking the drug anyways with zero side effects.

There are people on here like hellhouser who will tell you the drug is the devil, and there are people on here who will tell you it is as safe as a sugar pill. Like most things the truth lies somewhere in the middle. 

And to follow up with one of your last posts, finasteride doesn't decrease your testosterone levels, it keeps the enzyme 5 alpha reductase from converting testosterone into dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Often times taking finasteride results in an increase in the amount of free testosterone. I would suggest you go see a doctor about this problem and not rely on the medical advice of people on the internet.

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## hellouser

> Thanks for the info hellouser! Much appreciated 
> I'll definitely look into it.. there's still hope!!


 Forgot to mention, RU58841 and CB-03-01 are both available via black market... you just have to make the vehicle yourself (its really easy). Check my thread on how to make RU here:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?p=120497

As for CB, preparation is similar (can be the same, but efficacy will be different).

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## hellouser

> How about you blow me for calling me a "Finasteride bandwagon dumbass"! I am neither for or against finasteride. It is a drug and it has it's place. It helps many people and does not help many others. It has worked very well for me, and for other people it has been a nightmare. Like every drug it has it's side effects and some people experience them to different degrees.
> 
> I was simply wondering how you could notice "minimal shrinkage" of your balls unless you continually measure your balls, that's all, I was curious.
> 
> It is comical however that you call people finasteride bandwagon dumbasses and then as proof of you point of view you post a link from a website that is inhabited by hysterical hypochondriacs who wouldn't be able to get it up if they took a sugar pill because they are crazy.
> 
> Don't act like you know me.
> 
> To the OP, there are a lot of scary things on propeciahelp and most of them are the rants of crazy people. There are very real side effects of the drug, just like any other drug. If you are experiencing side effects that you can't handle then you should discontinue use. When I was younger I thought about using propecia but got scared off. I lost a ton of hair going from a NW 3 to a NW5/6 and I ended up taking the drug anyways with zero side effects.
> ...


 Congratulations on your rant, but I didn't even see your post nor do I care for it or this one. Stay on Fin if its working for you, but don't even for a second say it has very VERY debilitating side effects for many (erectile dysfunction? I'd rather be completely bald).

The drug should have been a thing of the past, CB will hopefully change all that without any of the shit that Fin causes.

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## cp9

I didn't mean that it lowered my testosterone overall, it actually increased it by heaps (I could lift a lot more in the gym lol). Kind of like taking steroids, with the increased amount of free flowing testosterone from Propecia I'm actually giving my body much more than what it can produce, so it stops producing naturally (hence the reduction in testicle size).
I'm gonna try lower my dosage or even take it EOD and see if that helps.. =/ 
But yes, I will definitely give the doctor a visit on Monday! 

@hellouser
Thanks for the link! 

Cheers

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## DanWS

> Don't let the Finasteride bandwagon dumbasses fool you, that shit is the devil's drug. And yes, testicle shrinkage is definitely possible;
> 
> http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7044


 shit like that is ****ing scary! oh well **** it, im 6 weeks in and aint gettin off now! lol

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## cp9

Well yea.. I thought the same thing as well! - Not getting off this drug lol
I'm getting really good regrowth from it at this point, which f**king sucks! 

But I'm gonna try take a week or two off and see if things get back to normal, and if it does, I'll start taking the drug again at a lower dose EOD (taper on).
I just hope I don't lose any of my gains...  :Frown:

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## Notcoolanymore

Who cares about the size of their balls?  It's the size of your D!@k that counts.  And besides with your balls being so small, your D!@k might actually look bigger than it actually is.

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## cp9

yeah of course you'd say that, it's not happening to you lol (but it does make my D look bigger =P )

It's like my people saying to me: who cares about the amount of hair on your head, being bald makes you look wise and sophisticated.

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## Notcoolanymore

Yeah I was just giving you crap.  Trying to lighten the mood around here.  But seriously shrinking balls is nothing to kid around about.

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## swingline747

> yeah of course you'd say that, it's not happening to you lol (but it does make my D look bigger =P )
> 
> It's like my people saying to me: who cares about the amount of hair on your head, being bald makes you look wise and sophisticated.


 Just be careful.
Have they started to hug your d*** yet? I went through these sides.. TWICE!
The worst is they start to have that "just out of cold water" look to them and it hurts like hell. Mine shrunk a bit, and trust me I KNOW. 
If you noticed other sides be careful. 
Im on my second recovery, so far getting better again, my drive tapers up and down but my balls are at least hanging normal most f the time again. 
I am hoping that their regular size returns and now Im looking into a possible FUE transplant.

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## cp9

Yeah, it's real weird.. sometimes they have the 'cold water look' and sometimes they hang just fine. (but a lot smaller)
How old are you swingline? I'm looking in getting FUE as well in another year or two. Really interested in either Dr Cole or Rahal =)

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## swingline747

> Yeah, it's real weird.. sometimes they have the 'cold water look' and sometimes they hang just fine. (but a lot smaller)
> How old are you swingline? I'm looking in getting FUE as well in another year or two. Really interested in either Dr Cole or Rahal =)


 33.
I took propecia in my early 20's no problems. Then stopped due to cost.
Started fin for 8 months last year and was fine until one day I woke up with the worst pain in my nuts. My tip burned and i had a horrible discomfort in my taint. I honestly thought I had chlamydia. 
Ran to my doc and every test came back fine. He said even my test was normal. 
Gave me a strong antibiotic and I stopped taking everything. About 3 weeks later I started to get better. I thought it possibly reacted with a fat burner I started taking so when I felt everything was fine again I tried it again alone. 
2 pills 4 days apart (basically half doses) and I was worse off then previous.

I stopped and flushed them. Im not telling you "NOOOOOO DONT TAKE THEM! ITS POISONNNNNNN" but Im saying be careful.
There are tons of guys who take it forever fine but then there are the guys like me I guess. Why it took 8 months is beyond me but i guess it is what it is. 

Im seeing a Dr Destephano tomorrow here in Rocky Hill CT.

I will talk to him and a few others and see what kind of info I get. Hopefully they wont tell me Im to young or not enough hair has come out. 
I would really like to start filling in now while it might not be as noticable than deal with a massive healing head for weeks.

Start now and hopefully Illl have a bunch of smaller more affordable fills then one bank breaking one. Right now I need my front hair line filled/restored and the back touched up.

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## UK_

> 33.
> I took propecia in my early 20's no problems. Then stopped due to cost.
> Started fin for 8 months last year and was fine until one day I woke up with the worst pain in my nuts. My tip burned and i had a horrible discomfort in my taint. I honestly thought I had chlamydia. 
> Ran to my doc and every test came back fine. He said even my test was normal. 
> Gave me a strong antibiotic and I stopped taking everything. About 3 weeks later I started to get better. I thought it possibly reacted with a fat burner I started taking so when I felt everything was fine again I tried it again alone. 
> 2 pills 4 days apart (basically half doses) and I was worse off then previous.
> 
> I stopped and flushed them. Im not telling you "NOOOOOO DONT TAKE THEM! ITS POISONNNNNNN" but Im saying be careful.
> There are tons of guys who take it forever fine but then there are the guys like me I guess. Why it took 8 months is beyond me but i guess it is what it is. 
> ...


 You flushed propecia pills down the toilet?

What an idiot.

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## swingline747

> You flushed propecia pills down the toilet?
> 
> What an idiot.


 Lol

Seriously if I didn't I would have been tempted to try again. It DOES grow hair and that is a huge part if me.
Be funny when a crocodile is pulled from my sewer with a mullet

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## cp9

I took a week and half off Propecia (1mg daily). Now, I'm taking 0.25mg twice a week and slowly building it up from there.. Plan to get up to 0.5mg mwf.
Did your testicles grow back in size over time? Or are they still small? I had heaps of testicle pain when I was on 1mg daily, but haven't experienced any pain yet on 0.25mg.. I'm hoping that my testes will recover slowly with a lower dose.. Wish me luck lol.

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## UK_

> Lol
> 
> Seriously if I didn't I would have been tempted to try again. It DOES grow hair and that is a huge part if me.
> Be funny when a crocodile is pulled from my sewer with a mullet


 No it's not that, but you're contaminating the local water supply by flushing drugs down the toilet, given the fact that even skin exposure can cause the drug to enter the skin of a human i'd say you have actually poisoned your local water supply, if authorities found out you'd be in deep shit.

A guy here in the UK was fined £7,000 and given a 2 year suspended sentence for flushing drugs down his toilet, I guess common sense doesnt apply in whatever country you live in.

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## swingline747

> I took a week and half off Propecia (1mg daily). Now, I'm taking 0.25mg twice a week and slowly building it up from there.. Plan to get up to 0.5mg mwf.
> Did your testicles grow back in size over time? Or are they still small? I had heaps of testicle pain when I was on 1mg daily, but haven't experienced any pain yet on 0.25mg.. I'm hoping that my testes will recover slowly with a lower dose.. Wish me luck lol.


 i think things are getting back to normal. Like I ssaid my drive fluxuates but Im starting to level out... i hope.
good luck, Im sure youll be fine.

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## swingline747

> No it's not that, but you're contaminating the local water supply by flushing drugs down the toilet, given the fact that even skin exposure can cause the drug to enter the skin of a human i'd say you have actually poisoned your local water supply, if authorities found out you'd be in deep shit.
> 
> A guy here in the UK was fined £7,000 and given a 2 year suspended sentence for flushing drugs down his toilet, I guess common sense doesnt apply in whatever country you live in.


 okay, 10 pills flushed down a toilet after running through our storm drains. sewer system and then a treatment plant is not going to contaminate anything. 
I think you are reaching. I guess if mass testicle atrophy in the area breaks out then we will know but I think you are far fetching.

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## akai

> Don't let the Finasteride bandwagon dumbasses fool you, that shit is the devil's drug. And yes, testicle shrinkage is definitely possible;
> 
> http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7044


 There are people on that site that say Nizoral gave them impotence, lowered libido, and even depression:

_About 9 months ago, I began using Nizoral 1 &#37; and a Tea Tree Oil shampoo every other day. About 1.5 months after the beginning of this treatment, I began to experience the symptoms of a serious depression.

I always assumed that the sexual problems had been caused by the fact that I was so seriously depressed (as the depression worsened the sexual problems worsened and when I began to feel better, they improved). However, after reading some posts in this forum, I began to think that maybe they were actually (or partially) caused by my use of Nizoral and Tea Tree Oil shampoo (given their DHT blocking capabilities)._

Also noticed this post:

_I am 55 and told I look 40, until 6 weeks of Propecia aged my face 10 years in that 6 weeks. Falling face, puffy around my mouth, my profile now looks like I've aged 10 years, but it was just 6 weeks. And my eyes, puffy, black circles, wrinkles, they also aged 10 years in 6 weeks._

Is that even possible?

I'm one of the finasteride users that did not get any bad side effects other than a little acne at the start and watery semen for a few days. I understand that some people get serious side effects (as with any drug) and some people can take it (including 5mg per day for prostate related problems) for over a decade with no side effects. If you feel you've received negative side effects from finasteride then get off the drug immediately and/or consult your physician. That being said it bothers me when certain posters on here who have never taken the drug scare others with early hair loss into avoiding treatment. From what I've noticed these men with early signs of hair loss postpone treatment until they feel they've lost "too much" and then decide to get on finasteride anyways. As we all know it's much easier to prevent hair loss than it is to have regrowth. I feel strongly about this because I never read a hair loss forum until after being on finasteride for over a year. I could of been one of those guys that got scared into avoiding treatment and instead of having a full head of hair right now I would probably have significant balding and ready to spend thousands of dollars on a hair transplant. I'm not a "finasteride bandwagon dumbass" either. This is a place to share our experiences good or bad and for adults to make informed decisions on what to do about hair loss. Not for sunshine pumping or fear-mongering. Just remember when you scare someone into avoiding treatment (cough, UK) that person may have been a good candidate for finasteride all along. They could've kept their hair without side effects and moved on with their life until a better treatment comes along.

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## swingline747

> I'm one of the finasteride users that did not get any bad side effects other than a little acne at the start and watery semen for a few days. I understand that some people get serious side effects (as with any drug) and some people can take it (including 5mg per day for prostate related problems) for over a decade with no side effects. If you feel you've received negative side effects from finasteride then get off the drug immediately and/or consult your physician. That being said it bothers me when certain posters on here who have never taken the drug scare others with early hair loss into avoiding treatment. From what I've noticed these men with early signs of hair loss postpone treatment until they feel they've lost "too much" and then decide to get on finasteride anyways. As we all know it's much easier to prevent hair loss than it is to have regrowth. I feel strongly about this because I never read a hair loss forum until after being on finasteride for over a year. I could of been one of those guys that got scared into avoiding treatment and instead of having a full head of hair right now I would probably have significant balding and ready to spend thousands of dollars on a hair transplant. I'm not a "finasteride bandwagon dumbass" either. This is a place to share our experiences good or bad and for adults to make informed decisions on what to do about hair loss. Not for sunshine pumping or fear-mongering. Just remember when you scare someone into avoiding treatment (cough, UK) that person may have been a good candidate for finasteride all along. They could've kept their hair without side effects and moved on with their life until a better treatment comes along.


 well said. I tell others try it but monitor closely. I think its possible my anxiety and depression are factors in my finasteride sides. 
I myself went for my consult 2 days ago and now looking into taking a 401 k loan for a few grand to get my first surgery. 
In the end the costs will offset each other and at least Ill never have to worry about the new hair falling out or side effects.

Wish I could have kept taking the fin tho, it was really growing and thickening my hair

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## Jcm800

I'm still curious about Finasteride, feel it would benefit me, but if it didn't, or I developed permanent  sides, I'd be distraught. Sometimes I think fck it-let nature take its course..

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## hellouser

> That being said it bothers me when certain posters on here who have never taken the drug scare others with early hair loss into avoiding treatment.


 It bothers me that for 20 years everyone in the hair loss community hasn't bothered to demand a superior treatment to finasteride, knowing its very real potential dangers and limited positive effects.

That is a monumental failure.

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## cp9

Here's a little bit of an update..
Lowered to 0.25mg twice a week for 2 weeks (will up it up to 3 times a week soon). Sides have decreased and I think my testicles are actually coming back in size  :Smile:  
I wonder if replicel can replace propecia altogether.. and I hope it can because that would be fan-f***ing-tastic!!  :Big Grin:

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## greatjob!

> It bothers me that for 20 years everyone in the hair loss community hasn't bothered to demand a superior treatment to finasteride, knowing its very real potential dangers and limited positive effects.
> 
> That is a monumental failure.


 Sure because yelling on an online forum would have surely made a cure come to market...

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## swingline747

> _It bothers me_ that for 20 years everyone in the hair loss community hasn't bothered to demand a superior treatment to finasteride, knowing its very real potential dangers and limited positive effects.
> 
> That is a monumental failure.


 There is nothing better than Fin other than surgery. There are just to many unknown causes to hair loss aside DHT to make treatments.
Lets see how histogen works....

What pisses me off is that fat people can get lap band surgery paid by insurance (like 4 at my job) because they cant get themselves to lose weight yet people like myself who have severe depression over this, take great care of themselves and NEVER see the doctor cant get even a portion of my surgery covered to help my mental health. 

If you are so obese you need a surgery then YOU pay for it, if my premiums go up because of YOU then I should be able to abuse the system as well.

We should all start a movement against this, and just get ourselves some offset costs to hair surgery.

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## akai

> It bothers me that for 20 years everyone in the hair loss community hasn't bothered to demand a superior treatment to finasteride, knowing its very real potential dangers and limited positive effects.
> 
> That is a monumental failure.


 Hey, I'm with you on that. As far as modern medicine and science has come it's amazing that keeping and/or growing some keratin strands on your scalp is somehow without of reach. Neurosurgery and heart transplants are possible yet curing hair loss isn't. I've said it before but it was quite depressing reading older posts from the late 90s/early 00s with hopeful people posting how there will be much better treatment options and even a cure in the next 10 years. Well it's been 10+ years later and we still have the same options. There a people out there that would give a significant amount of their net worth or even spend millions to cure their hair loss. You'd think capitalism would have solved this problem years ago. What is going on?

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