# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  OC000459? (Yes that's its name)

## Johny.track131

Well on hairloss help theres an explosion of some thing that will supposedly stop hairloss, it's called OC000459 , what do you guys think? http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...&enterthread=y (replace the ***** with "hairloss help" with no space, why is that website blocked here?)

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## tbtadmin

> Well on hairloss help theres an explosion of some thing that will supposedly stop hairloss, it's called OC000459 , what do you guys think? http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...&enterthread=y (replace the ***** with "hairloss help" with no space, why is that website blocked here?)


 
It shouldn't be blocked.. I've fixed it and it appears correctly now.

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## 2020

looks great.... someone on *** will be testing it in a couple weeks  :Big Grin:

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## greatjob!

HAHA! those guys on that site are so crazy! But I love them, maybe one of them will somehow stuble upon something that works, that is if they don't die first...

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## NotBelievingIt

> looks great.... someone on *** will be testing it in a couple weeks


 and it will likely then be months before anything of substance comes out of his tests.

+ hopefully the guy isn't using any other products.  the only true test is when it is used by itself.

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## 2020

> and it will likely then be months before anything of substance comes out of his tests.
> 
> + hopefully the guy isn't using any other products.  the only true test is when it is used by itself.


 months?? What tests? The lab is going to ship the chemical in a couple weeks.
If it works as expected, it will only take a couple of applications before a start of a massive shed.... when that happens, we will know that it's working  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## NotBelievingIt

> months?? What tests? The lab is going to ship the chemical in a couple weeks.
> If it works as expected, it will only take a couple of applications before a start of a massive shed.... when that happens, we will know that it's working


 Guess I didn't read enough, but why would (should?) there be a shed?

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## Davey Jones

Sounds awesome, but honestly, that GangsterBoy fella' over there sounds like he is involved with selling whatever this thing is. Does anyone else get that impression or know anything about him?

About this compound though, is it expected to regrow hair or just stop hair loss? Looks expensive, but if it works for people, it's worth every bit of $150 a gram.

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## clandestine

> Guess I didn't read enough, but why would (should?) there be a shed?


 Any treatment that works should have a shed, I think.

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## 2020

> Sounds awesome, but honestly, that GangsterBoy fella' over there sounds like he is involved with selling whatever this thing is. Does anyone else get that impression or know anything about him?


 he's not selling you anything.... he volunteered to buy that chemical himself and report to us the results.





> About this compound though, is it expected to regrow hair or just stop hair loss? Looks expensive, but if it works for people, it's worth every bit of $150 a gram.


 I'm hoping it to be as effective as castration. 
Think about it - if that protein ALONE is responsible for hair loss, then COMPLETELY blocking it would prevent any further "damage" permanently..... Follicles that aren't damaged too much would probably make a full recovery. Full Regrowth? most likely not....

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## Davey Jones

> he's not selling you anything.... he volunteered to buy that chemical himself and report to us the results.


 Yeah, I know, but it sounds to me like an advertisement.  And his consistent refusal to do a group buy seems weird.  I wonder how active he was before this and otherwise.




> I'm hoping it to be as effective as castration. 
> Think about it - if that protein ALONE is responsible for hair loss, then COMPLETELY blocking it would prevent any further "damage" permanently..... Follicles that aren't damaged too much would probably make a full recovery. Full Regrowth? most likely not....


 That would be pretty boss.  I'm hoping one of these up and coming companies can recover follicles, but I wouldn't mind just keeping the ones I have until then.

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## 2020

> Yeah, I know, but it sounds to me like an advertisement.  And his consistent refusal to do a group buy seems weird.  I wonder how active he was before this and otherwise.


 group buys are AGAINST THE RULES on ***.... that's why  :Cool:  :Cool:  :Cool:

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## Davey Jones

> group buys are AGAINST THE RULES on ***.... that's why


 Ohhhhhhh, seems a lot less shady without that.  Well, I'm interested to see how that turns out.  Someone who frequents both forums should keep us updated.  2020_2 wouldn't happen to be you, would it 2020?

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## Johny.track131

Question then, doesnt minox cause regrowth? So if we stop hairloss 100% using this, wouldnt the new hairs caused by minox NOT go away once we stop it at the result we like?

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## Johny.track131

or something that promotes hair growth like resveratrol and cirricumin (excuse my sucky spelling), in the end, if you stop the loss, then shouldnt ANY kind of regrowth just permanently stay?

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## gutted

> or something that promotes hair growth like resveratrol and cirricumin (excuse my sucky spelling), in the end, *if you stop the loss, then shouldnt ANY kind of regrowth just permanently stay?*


 
if you address the underlying cause of baldness...theres no reason why it shouldnt stay...but merck are clever and play on this and state regrowth will disappear after stopping, and this is what is also reported by users, but it could be because they dont stop the underlying cause of baldness after stopping the minox.

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## Kirby_

^ rev and cur aren't effective, surely? I can't recall any actual scientific evidence being cited anywhere...

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## 2020

> Ohhhhhhh, seems a lot less shady without that.  Well, I'm interested to see how that turns out.  Someone who frequents both forums should keep us updated.  2020_2 wouldn't happen to be you, would it 2020?


 yup, that's me  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Johny.track131

> ^ rev and cur aren't effective, surely? I can't recall any actual scientific evidence being cited anywhere...


 Here you go my man http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...threadid=80854

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## 2020

Attention All Balding Males: Resveratrol To Your Rescue 

http://www.resveratrolnews.com/atten...ur-rescue/520/

^ supposedly it's helpful....I still think you should stick with "proven" treatments....

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## Johny.track131

also isnt it generally helpful to your health? what would be any downside in taking it daily? Unless it's really expensive, i dont see any problem with something that's gonna make you live longer AND supposedly good for your hair!  :Big Grin:  And add circ too for best results,  i mean if there's no loss then where's the harm? Also i read in one forum of a dude that used to eat a garlic clove a day (Full of Res from what i can figure) and he lost the shedding and itching, it only came back when he stopped (probably cause the suppressed effects werent suppressed anymore)

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## Kirby_

> ^ supposedly it's helpful....I still think you should stick with "proven" treatments....


 Yeah, I'm quite open about dabbling in SOME supplements here or there, but not at the expense of fin, no way.

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## clandestine

bump

10char

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## 2020

lol not a single post since I took a break for two weeks.... this thread should be booming  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

anyways, apparently this drug has already finished phase 2 and it was proven to be very effective:

http://www.oxagen.co.uk/crth2-1.htm

^ I wonder if any of those people in those studies noticed any improvement to their hair....

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## gutted

for all those experimenters out there try this internally -> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10457118

its better known as omega 3.
fatty acids may be the key to hair regeneration.

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## greatjob!

> for all those experimenters out there try this internally -> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10457118
> 
> its better known as omega 3.
> fatty acids may be the key to hair regeneration.


 Studies like this dealing with immune response are what I'm putting my money on for the end game cure.

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## clandestine

Anyone with a knowledge of this (OC000459) know what it's side effect profile is (if any)?

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## 2020

> Anyone with a knowledge of this (OC000459) know what it's side effect profile is (if any)?


 oh that's on the first page on their site:




> Its lead drug candidate OC000459 is a *once-daily oral* CRTH2 antagonist in Phase IIb clinical trials that has demonstrated efficacy in asthma, allergic rhinitis and allergic conjunctivitis along with an *excellent safety profile*.


 even when taken ORALLY at high doses (100mg+/daily), it still was shown to be very safe.

I've actually contacted the company to ask if any of the subjects reported an increase of hair growth... awaiting their reply  :Big Grin:

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## gutted

> Studies like this dealing with immune response are what I'm putting my money on for the end game cure.


 no not really.
the immune response is there for a reason, it doesnt just happen to start attacking itslelf. something is provoking it. the end game cure is figuring out what that something is.

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## Davey Jones

> no not really.
> the immune response is there for a reason, it doesnt just happen to start attacking itslelf. something is provoking it. the end game cure is figuring out what that something is.


 Often times, that "something" provoking an immune response is totally innocuous.  Think allergies to dust, pet hair, etc.  It is an immune overreaction that needs controlled.

I'm not saying that I agree that the immune response is the end game to hairloss treatments; I'm just saying that the immune system itself (and not the cause) is the problem in some cases.

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## gutted

> Often times, *that "something"* provoking an immune response is totally innocuous.  Think allergies to dust, pet hair, etc.  It is an immune overreaction that needs controlled.
> 
> I'm not saying that I agree that the immune response is the end game to hairloss treatments; I'm just saying that the immune system itself (and not the cause) is the problem in some cases.


 its possible that its bacteria, that lives on your scalp, but overgrows beyond control, provoking the immune reaction and thus scarring of the follcile.

MPB is not so much different from alopecia areata, alopecia areata is also thought to be the body attacking its only follicles, (bacteria have also been implicated) *causing hair to shed prematureley* this is what is know in MPB as *"DHT causing early entry into telogen phase"* when truely it is not dht but the body.

your imune system is only doing its job and protecting the body, dont blame the immune system, blame yourself.

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## clandestine

> oh that's on the first page on their site:
> 
> 
> 
> even when taken ORALLY at high doses (100mg+/daily), it still was shown to be very safe.
> 
> I've actually contacted the company to ask if any of the subjects reported an increase of hair growth... awaiting their reply


 Good initiative mate, thanks. Let us know if they reply.

As an aside, would it be at all possible to get in on the group buy over at HLH?

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## 2020

I'm pretty sure your immune system has nothing to do with male pattern baldness.... 
MPB isn't auto-immune (AA is though), so DHT isn't really "attacking" your follicles....

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## gutted

> I'm pretty sure your immune system has nothing to do with male pattern baldness.... 
> MPB isn't auto-immune (AA is though), so DHT isn't really "attacking" your follicles....


 
alopecia areata like, MPB is also not *completey understood and/or misunderstood*. But bacteria/pathogens are also thought to be involved as well as the body but for now its classified as an *"autoimmune disease"
* because researchers have identified that its the body attacking the follciles but they have not researched the hidden/disguised problems

the immune system is definteley involved in mpb
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22134564

my view - mpb is not an auto immune disease.

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## sausage

I just googled this stuff, it just said it could be ideal for asthma sufferer's

So not sure what this has to do with hair.

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## 2020

> alopecia areata like, MPB is also not *completey understood and/or misunderstood*. But bacteria/pathogens are also thought to be involved as well as the body but for now its classified as an *"autoimmune disease"
> * because researchers have identified that its the body attacking the follciles but they have not researched the hidden/disguised problems
> 
> the immune system is definteley involved in mpb
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22134564
> 
> my view - mpb is not an auto immune disease.


 right, MPB is 100% not auto-immune. If it was, you would be getting many other diseases as well since auto immune diseases often come in multiples.

btw: that study only talks about women. In general, women's immune system is much more overreactive and that's why most auto-immune diseases happen mostly to women.

anyways, my guess is that MPB is just your body's normal response of getting rid of hair for whatever reason.

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## gutted

> right, MPB is 100% not auto-immune. If it was, you would be getting many other diseases as well since auto immune diseases often come in multiples.
> *
> btw: that study only talks about women. In general, women's immune system is much more overreactive and that's why most auto-immune diseases happen mostly to women.*
> 
> anyways, my guess is that MPB is just your body's normal response of getting rid of hair for whatever reason.


 
no your wrong...if anything this study proves dht isnt the only factor in balding and probably not the root cause either.

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## sausage

is this stuff supposed to regrow lost hair?

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## 2020

> is this stuff supposed to regrow lost hair?


 we don't know, although at the very least it should halt MPB permanently

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## greatjob!

the immune system most definatly has everything to do with mpb. I'm not talking about an auto immune disorder, in my opinion dht, prostaglandins, etc are markers that are causing the immune system to attack the hair follicles. Surpressing immune response involved with mpb is definatly going to be involved in the end game cure. Prostaglandin D2 is produced by mast cells which is where histamine is generated, it also recruits Helper T, esinophils and basophils which are all wbc that are the main components of our immune system. Their job is to attack infections, parasites, bacteria, etc.

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## sausage

Can someone just briefly tell me the deal with this, it seems its come out of knowhere.

1. So there is a topical that they are currently in the process of producing and it is out in shops in 4 weeks time. Correct? If so which country and where will this be sold, will we need a prescription?

2. They have offered the other forum to try out out and a few guys will give feedback?

3. Can someone tell me the success of this stuff in tests/trials, what percentage of men did it work on and what exactly did it achieve?

Thanks.

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## gutted

> the immune system most definatly has everything to do with mpb. I'm not talking about an auto immune disorder, in my opinion dht, prostaglandins, etc are markers that are causing the immune system to attack the hair follicles. Surpressing immune response involved with mpb is definatly going to be involved in the end game cure. Prostaglandin D2 is produced by mast cells which is where histamine is generated, it also recruits Helper T, esinophils and basophils which are all wbc that are the main components of our immune system. Their job is to attack infections, parasites, bacteria, etc.


 average hair loss sufferers will not know about these things, as the only source of education is thier doctor/fda/nhs who most likley are not aware of the dynamics of mpb other than which has been taught for the last decade or so.

i think hair loss sufferers should do thier own research to trueley understand what is behind mpb other than dht and genetics.

surpressing the immune system is not the way forward, identifying what is invoking the immune reactin is the end game cure. surpressing the immune system will lead to all sort sof problems...immune surpressing drugs have been known to cause hair growth on people, but this is dangerous.

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## greatjob!

> average hair loss sufferers will not know about these things, as the only source of education is thier doctor/fda/nhs who most likley are not aware of the dynamics of mpb other than which has been taught for the last decade or so.
> 
> i think hair loss sufferers should do thier own research to trueley understand what is behind mpb other than dht and genetics.
> 
> surpressing the immune system is not the way forward, identifying what is invoking the immune reactin is the end game cure. surpressing the immune system will lead to all sort sof problems...immune surpressing drugs have been known to cause hair growth on people, but this is dangerous.


 True, I phrased that wrong, I'm not suggesting surpression of the immune system. I think that understanding the signalling that is going on and blocking that by competitive inhibitor or the like is going to be key. But I also think there are many more things involved than just dht or pgd2 which is why every month a new study comes out claming a receptor or signaling component may be the key to the cure. I hope this works but I think there is much more involved than just pgd2

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## 2020

> Can someone just briefly tell me the deal with this, it seems its come out of knowhere.
> 
> 1. So there is a topical that they are currently in the process of producing and it is out in shops in 4 weeks time. Correct? If so which country and where will this be sold, will we need a prescription?
> 
> 2. They have offered the other forum to try out out and a few guys will give feedback?
> 
> 3. Can someone tell me the success of this stuff in tests/trials, what percentage of men did it work on and what exactly did it achieve?
> 
> Thanks.


 
wow really?

http://www.medicaldaily.com/news/201...staglandin.htm

scientists discovered that bald areas have much higher levels of PGD2 then hairy areas.
They also found that genetically engineered mice with high PGD2 levels GO BALD while mice with normal PGD2 levels keep their hair.
They also tested PGD2 on cultured human follicles and found the same - hair shrinks when exposed to PGD2.

conclusion: *excessive PGD2 is THE MAIN cause of MPB.*

OC000459 will block all of that PGD2 and in theory will reverse baldness. The guy who will be testing it said that it will take another 30 days before this molecule is ready to be shipped. 30 days until the cure! :P

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## 2020

> average hair loss sufferers will not know about these things, as the only source of education is thier doctor/fda/nhs who most likley are not aware of the dynamics of mpb other than which has been taught for the last decade or so.
> 
> i think hair loss sufferers should do thier own research to trueley understand what is behind mpb other than dht and genetics.
> 
> surpressing the immune system is not the way forward, identifying what is invoking the immune reactin is the end game cure. surpressing the immune system will lead to all sort sof problems...immune surpressing drugs have been known to cause hair growth on people, but this is dangerous.


 supressing immune system you say....

http://www.lowdosenaltrexone.org/

EDIT: lol someone beat me to it. There is already 20+ pages about LDN on HLH:

http://************/6t3jeal

 :Big Grin:

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## sausage

So this is a potential topical cure for baldness yet this thread is not getting many comments :S.

When is this stuff going to be in the shops, the guy on the other forum said 4 weeks, is that true?

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## 2020

> So this is a potential topical cure for baldness yet this thread is not getting many comments :S


 exactly!! Why isn't anyone talking about it?  :EEK!: 




> When is this stuff going to be in the shops, the guy on the other forum said 4 weeks, is that true?


 specifically for the treatment of baldness? Not anytime soon, but it doesn't even matter. A bunch of EXISTING ASTHMA drugs already deal with PGD2, so the "cure" is already here, it's just not approved for the treatment of baldness...

one of those drugs is OC000459:
http://www.oxagen.co.uk/crth2-1.htm

^ it's still in Phase 2 although you can already buy that same molecule from offshore labs.... 
That's what we're trying to do. Some guy on *** already contacted one of those labs and they said that it will take *4 weeks* for them to make it  :Big Grin:

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## sausage

> exactly!! Why isn't anyone talking about it? 
> 
> 
> 
> specifically for the treatment of baldness? Not anytime soon, but it doesn't even matter. A bunch of EXISTING ASTHMA drugs already deal with PGD2, so the "cure" is already here, it's just not approved for the treatment of baldness...
> 
> one of those drugs is OC000459:
> http://www.oxagen.co.uk/crth2-1.htm
> 
> ...


 ok, I see.

Interesting.

Well we can only hope it works and hopefully we don't have to wait 12 months for any signs of it working.  :Smile:

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## gutted

> supressing immune system you say....
> 
> http://www.lowdosenaltrexone.org/
> 
> EDIT: lol someone beat me to it. There is already 20+ pages about LDN on HLH:
> 
> http://************/6t3jeal


 this can practically reverse a norwood 7 scalp to a norwood 1 over time but there are better ways. the cure exists its just hidden under our noses and not discovered because of the lack of understanding of mpb.

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## 2020

> this can practically reverse a norwood 7 scalp to a norwood 1 over time but there are better ways. the cure exists its just hidden under our noses and not discovered because of the lack of understanding of mpb.


 really? That thread from HLH has something like 200 posts from 2 years and no one has regrew any hair..... proof that suppressing your immune system won't do anything....

A cure is a complete inhbition of PGD2 protein. We're very close. Couple months MAX!  :Cool:

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## gutted

> really? That thread from HLH has something like 200 posts from 2 years and no one has regrew any hair..... proof that suppressing your immune system won't do anything....
> 
> A cure is a complete inhbition of PGD2 protein. We're very close. Couple months MAX!


 i should have added, this would have probably killed you before you grew a single hair...no one would have tried it.
those types of drugs, reverse fibrosis and inhibit inflamation.

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## 2020

> i should have added, this would have probably killed you before you grew a single hair...no one would have tried it.
> those types of drugs, reverse fibrosis and inhibit inflamation.


 it certainly wouldn't kill you.... look up hashimoto's. So many thousands of women treat it with LDN and no one has died so far  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

anyways, reducing levels of PGD2 WOULD actually reduce inflammation so that's why it will work.
Why don't you think that this OC0459 will work?

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## gutted

> Why don't you think that this OC0459 will work?


 blocking it may allow the hair to regenerate. it may work, only time will tell. are you going to use it?

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## 2020

> blocking it may allow the hair to regenerate. it may work, only time will tell. are you going to use it?


 it will work!  :Big Grin:  Prostaglandins are the answer! The reason why minoxidil and latisse work is because it increases the good prostaglandins(PGE2 specifically).
This is all too perfect for it to not to work!

yup, as soon as the lab is done making a batch, I'll buy a gram  :Big Grin:

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## greatjob!

HAHA it would be pretty damn crazy if a treatment came out of these forums, lol. I'd love to see the faces of the researchers and drug company executives when the news headlines dropped "Baldness cure discovered by some jackwads on the internet" lol

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## Conpecia

This is, by far, the most interesting cutting edge treatment going. I have no idea why this isn't getting more attention. Very excited to see how our comrades on hairloss hold up over the summer. The skeptic in me wants to say it's too good to be true, but I will reserve judgment until we get some real results from some of the guys who are getting this stuff next month. Why on earth are people bothering with Replicel and Histogen which are light years away when this stuff is already here and is supported by some pretty good theory and studies? I honestly think it's because it doesn't have a flashy name...

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## Conpecia

> HAHA it would be pretty damn crazy if a treatment came out of these forums, lol. I'd love to see the faces of the researchers and drug company executives when the news headlines dropped "Baldness cure discovered by some jackwads on the internet" lol


 Haha! That would be legendary!

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## Conpecia

Wait a second, if this protein is present in elevated levels on the *scalps* of men who suffer from MPB, and it's the sole cause of baldness, then why do hair transplants work? Wouldn't the hair just fall back out?

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## NeedHairASAP

sounds cool. how soon could someone obtain it? how long to possible results?

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## WillhasWill

Be careful guys, no one on this forum actually knows what they are talking about. 2020, why say "it will work". Are you trained in medicine and conducted the studies?

Current drugs that are on the market will not be forumated for baldness so results could be very disappointing at best.

I'm really excited by PGD2 findings but is it the cause? Not necessarily. It could be a bi product once follicles are destroyed anyway?

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## gutted

> *no one on this forum actually knows what they are talking about*.


 i totally agree with you there.

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## 2020

> Be careful guys, no one on this forum actually knows what they are talking about. 2020, why say "it will work". Are you trained in medicine and conducted the studies?
> 
> Current drugs that are on the market will not be forumated for baldness so results could be very disappointing at best.
> 
> I'm really excited by PGD2 findings but is it the cause? Not necessarily. It could be a bi product once follicles are destroyed anyway?


 yes it will work because up to this point we have never looked at prostaglandins and instead just blamed it all on DHT.

minoxidil works at growing hair. Why? Because it apparently increases PGE2 levels(good prostaglandins). So much for the "circulation" theory....
latisse works too. Why? increases PGF2alpha.

emu oil, with which some people regrew hair lines, contains Omega 3 which is a WEAK PGD2 INHIBITOR which is also ANTI-INFLAMMATORY! Inflammation and MPB link comes back again!

some guy on HLH has completely regrown his hairline using sulfasalazine. Well guess what: it's an anti-inflammatory and it also reduces levels of PGD2.... coincidence that it helped him?


This is all too perfect for this to not work. Correcting prostaglandin levels will cure MPB 100&#37;  :Big Grin:

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## gutted

i really do believe there is a reasonable amount of evidence to suggest this may allow the scarred hair follicles to regenerate, whethere this goes anywhere though is anyones guess. The molecule in question may not get into the deeper layers of the dermis.

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v1...id201291a.html

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## clandestine

We shouldn't by any means jump to conclusions.

That said, I understand 2020 frequents a variety of hairloss forums, so his observations may indeed have some credence to them.

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## Kirby_

2020 _is_ hairloss forums.

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## WillhasWill

> minoxidil works at growing hair.


 It's no where near a cure.




> latisse works too.


 Currently produced for eyelashes, show me the picture it's an effective treatment for hair loss. It may be one day but they are working on this aren't they.




> emu oil, with which some people regrew hair lines


 Great! Where are the pics, send us the links




> some guy on HLH has completely regrown his hairline using sulfasalazine.


 Great! Where are the pics, send us the links

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## Tacola

Can anyone name any food or drugs where one can find this PGE2 stuff?

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## 2020

> It's no where near a cure.


 of course not.... because it's not addressing the MAIN cause of hair thinning - EXCESSIVE PGD2.

minimize bad prostaglandins = cure.




> Currently produced for eyelashes, show me the picture it's an effective treatment for hair loss. It may be one day but they are working on this aren't they.


 check out all these women who are reporting thicker hair when applied to scalp:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/05/fashion/05SKIN.html
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/452591...ens-thin-hair/

also: the company that makes latisse is currently conducting a study on its hair effects:
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01325337

^ obviously something is happening....





> Great! Where are the pics, send us the links


 here's one:
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...threadid=96765

check out youtube: lots of women with positive feedback from emu oil.




> Great! Where are the pics, send us the links


 he never showed any pics but I see no reason why he would lie about it.... 
the guy was diagnosed with arthritis. He took sulfasalazine and unexpectedly regrew his hairline. He simply reported his unexpected side effects. No reason to lie since most of us won't even bother trying that drug due to its side effects.

Also: check out this study:

"Sulfasalazine may be effective in alopecia areata treatment"
http://www.modernmedicine.com/modern.../detail/666211




> Twenty-two of 26 patients completed the study. Overall, results showed that 68.2 percent (15 of 22) of patients responded to therapy with *27.3 percent (six of 22 patients) and 40.9 percent (nine of 22 patients) demonstrating a complete hair re-growth and a partial hair re-growth, respectively*.


  :Big Grin:

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## 2020

> Can anyone name any food or drugs where one can find this PGE2 stuff?


 your PGE2 levels are fine. It's PGD2 that's off the charts. Minimizing PGD2 is the key and that's where this drug comes in....  :Smile:

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## WillhasWill

Most of those are not even related to MALE PATTERN BALDNESS. And you sound so sure that you know the cure a few posts back.....

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## Tacola

And this is done by taking this drug? There is no other things that can lower this other PG?

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## 2020

> Most of those are not even related to MALE PATTERN BALDNESS. And you sound so sure that you know the cure a few posts back.....


 it doesn't matter what your condition is.... All that these examples prove is that obviously there is a clear connection between hair growth and the levels of certain prostaglandins.
People with normal levels of prostaglandins don't go bald while us baldies with excessive PGD2 do.... that's what that study was about! 
Why wouldn't blocking the protein that's responsible for hair thinning actually STOP hair from thinning?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## 2020

> And this is done by taking this drug? There is no other things that can lower this other PG?


 yes... diet and exercise won't do jack in this case either  :Big Grin:

----------


## 2020

what the hell.... a patent by Cotsarelis filed in *2007* describes a way to treat MPB by reducing PGD2 levels:




> A method of treating an androgenetic alopecia (AGA) in a scalp of a subject, comprising the step of contacting said subject with a compound or composition capable of *inhibiting or decreasing the activity, level, signaling downstream receptor pathway activity of prostaglandin D2*, or their combination in said scalp, thereby treating an AGA in a scalp of a subject.


 http://www.google.com/patents/US20110021599

He knew about this *5 years* ago???  :EEK!:  :EEK!:  :EEK!:

----------


## sausage

Is this stuff not licensed or whatever checks etc it has to go through?

Surely it is illegal to send over a sample of this stuff to some random guy on a forum to try it out?

This stuff hasn't been approved so surely it can't be sent out willy nilly.

----------


## 2020

> Is this stuff not licensed or whatever checks etc it has to go through?
> 
> Surely it is illegal to send over a sample of this stuff to some random guy on a forum to try it out?
> 
> This stuff hasn't been approved so surely it can't be sent out willy nilly.


 what are you talking about?  :Confused:

----------


## gutted

> Most of those are not even related to MALE PATTERN BALDNESS. And you sound so sure that you know the cure a few posts back.....


 the basic physiology and  mechanism behind the hair follcile remains the same.
It just so happens that the causes behind each "disease" is different (or are they?)

i was involved in the sulfasalazine topic on HLH, my mate is on sulfasalazine for his rheaumotoid arthiritis and i can confirm his hair grows below his original hairline...whethere this is due to the drug or something else is anyones guess though.

there were some people trying sulfasalazine on the forums, but im not really sure what happened...perhaps brushed it off as bull**** and other people followed based on a single user experience. That being said this is most likley going to be brushed off too, we need carefully planned studies...

----------


## WillhasWill

> the basic physiology and  mechanism behind the hair follcile remains the same.
> It just so happens that the causes behind each "disease" is different (or are they?)
> 
> i was involved in the sulfasalazine topic on HLH, my mate is on sulfasalazine for his rheaumotoid arthiritis and i can confirm his hair grows below his original hairline...whethere this is due to the drug or something else is anyones guess though.
> 
> there were some people trying sulfasalazine on the forums, but im not really sure what happened...perhaps brushed it off as bull**** and other people followed based on a single user experience. That being said this is most likley going to be brushed off too, we need carefully planned studies...


 Are you on sulfasalazine seeing as you have a friend whose hair grows below his original hairline?

----------


## gutted

> Are you on sulfasalazine seeing as you have a friend whose hair grows below his original hairline?


 no...im not on it. 
it has some pretty bad side effects.

----------


## Gjm127

I am glad that this treatment is under works... I would to order some of this but I'm far too scared of trying out some pill or cream that doesn't have FDA approval...

Isn't any pharmaceutical company working on this except for this forum guy that asked some lab to make this medicine?

I mean, this could be THE cure we've been all waiting for so long...

----------


## Tacola

And does anyone know when this drug will come out? This that can reduce the bad levels of protein? Does Cotseralis work on this? Or is it Latisse?

----------


## 2020

Those poor mice... this picture says everything:

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> Those poor mice... this picture says everything:


 
dont get it...

----------


## clandestine

> dont get it...


 Me neither. Was waiting for someone else to say it.

----------


## 2020

Mice were shaven.

Scientists applied PGD2 daily or whatever on Mouse A
Scientists also applied a placebo on Mouse B

Mouse A did not grow his hair back while hair grew back completely for Mouse B.

Conclusion: your hair WILL NOT GROW BACK until you get rid of PGD2  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## clandestine

> Mice were shaven.
> 
> Scientists applied PGD2 daily or whatever on Mouse A
> Scientists also applied a placebo on Mouse B
> 
> Mouse A did not grow his hair back while hair grew back completely for Mouse B.
> 
> Conclusion: your hair WILL NOT GROW BACK until you get rid of PGD2


 Cool, curious where you got the picture?

And when can we expect something like OC000459 might come to market?

----------


## 2020

> Cool, curious where you got the picture?


 http://www.google.com/patents/US20110021599





> And when can we expect something like OC000459 might come to market?


 ..... OC000459 is an ASTHMA DRUG. Its makers probably have no plans of "remaking" it to a hair loss drug. For all we know, it may not even be effective in its pill form.... 
CRTH2 antagonists have been around for a while so I'm sure they would have noticed its "hair growing" effects. Somehow the pills are just too weak or something, so we'll probably be stuck making our own topicals as no large pharma company is that interested in making another "Rogaine".....

----------


## WillhasWill

> http://www.google.com/patents/US20110021599
> no large pharma company is that interested in making another "Rogaine".....


 Why would they not be interested in bringing to market a drug that has less side affects and is more effective than Rogaine? More people would take it.

There is a hell of a lot of motivation for new hair loss treatments to come to market.

----------


## sausage

If this grew back a tonne of hair I am sure someone would make it work!

----------


## Gjm127

> OC000459 is an ASTHMA DRUG. Its makers probably have no plans of "remaking" it to a hair loss drug. For all we know, it may not even be effective in its pill form.... 
> 
> CRTH2 antagonists have been around for a while so I'm sure they would have noticed its "hair growing" effects. Somehow the pills are just too weak or something, so we'll probably be stuck making our own topicals as no large pharma company is that interested in making another "Rogaine".....


 So you're saying, if this thing actually works... there's no future in this treatment?
How can we be happy about this?

----------


## NotBelievingIt

the only thing that stands out in that terrible black and white scan is that the mouse on the right made a poopy.

----------


## 2020

> So you're saying, if this thing actually works... there's no future in this treatment?
> How can we be happy about this?


 I'm not sure about the future, but for now we'll be stuck making our own batches for at least a couple years until some company decides jump in.... 
Also: since 2007, cotsarelis has been holding a patent that describes a way of treating baldness by blocking PGD2.... I assume that only HE is allowed to make such product since he "invented" it. Other companies aren't allowed so that's why they haven't even started working at it.

It doesn't matter... the good news is that now we know that baldness is fully reversible - NW7 to NW1 no problem. No need for histogen or replicel.
The trick now is to find the right drugs which the hair loss community is currently doing. 
OC0459 is first on the list, we'll see how it works in a month or two  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## clandestine

> It doesn't matter... the good news is that now we know that baldness is fully reversible - NW7 to NW1 no problem. No need for histogen or replicel.


 I'm sorry 2020, but this is a pretty wild assumption.

How in gods name did we go from blocking PGD2 as a potential viable treatment for arresting hair loss, to 'NW7 to NW1 no problem'? Surely I'm missing something?

----------


## Gjm127

> I'm not sure about the future, but for now we'll be stuck making our own batches for at least a couple years until some company decides jump in.... 
> Also: since 2007, cotsarelis has been holding a patent that describes a way of treating baldness by blocking PGD2.... I assume that only HE is allowed to make such product since he "invented" it. Other companies aren't allowed so that's why they haven't even started working at it.
> 
> It doesn't matter... the good news is that now we know that baldness is fully reversible - NW7 to NW1 no problem. No need for histogen or replicel.
> The trick now is to find the right drugs which the hair loss community is currently doing. 
> OC0459 is first on the list, we'll see how it works in a month or two


 What's Cotsarelis doing now? I mean, he knows about this since 2007, why isn't he working on a making a drug for it?
It takes approx. 8 years to approve a drug, they haven't done dick yet... They'Re not even doing any trials or ANYTHING...  :Frown:

----------


## WillhasWill

> It doesn't matter... the good news is that now we know that baldness is fully reversible - NW7 to NW1 no problem. No need for histogen or replicel.


 What a joke. Nothing you say is credible when you make assumptions like this. Cotsarelis finding shows a potential treatment but the finding didn't show a cure. Possibly might be with further work.

----------


## 2020

> What's Cotsarelis doing now? I mean, he knows about this since 2007, why isn't he working on a making a drug for it?
> It takes approx. 8 years to approve a drug, they haven't done dick yet... They'Re not even doing any trials or ANYTHING...


 Cotsarelis works for Follica: http://www.follicabio.com/

I'm sure they're doing something but since it's a private company they have no obligation to reveal anything to us.... That patent probably raises the value of their company.





> I'm sorry 2020, but this is a pretty wild assumption.
> 
> How in gods name did we go from blocking PGD2 as a potential viable treatment for arresting hair loss, to 'NW7 to NW1 no problem'? Surely I'm missing something?


 because..... that study PROVES that PGD2 is inhibiting hair growth. 
A mouse did not grow his hair back until they stopped applying PGD2 on his fur. A cultured human follicle was significantly shortened when exposed to PGD2.

PGD2 alone is the culprit. Not your immune system. Not the androgens.
The only reason PGD2 is there in the first place in non-balding people is to keep other prostaglandins in balance in order to prevent "overgrowth".
Unfortunately for us baldies, our body responds to the inflammation by overproducing PGD2 which then prevents hair from growing.

There has been reports from people who reversed their male pattern baldness by taking strong anti-inflammatories..... such drugs inhibit COX-2 which in turn lower levels of PGD2 so that's why it makes sense that it would work! Check out this thread:
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...VIEWTMP=Linear


about "NW7 to NW1" part: yes, your hair loss is completely reversible. Once you block PGD2 completely, the balance will be shifted to the good prostaglandins and slowly you will regrow everything.
Good prostaglandins grow hair as proven by minoxidil and latisse.

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v1...id201291a.html




> We found that in C57Bl/6J mice, the levels of prostaglandin synthases and their products (PGD2, PGE2, PGF2a) were reciprocally expressed during wound healing. *PGE2 and PGF2a levels increased during the early phases of wound healing* while PGD2 increased during the later stages of wound healing......
> 
> In all, these findings demonstrate that *PGD2 inversely correlates with hair follicle regeneration implying that inhibition of PGD2 production or Gpr44 signaling pathways may promote skin regeneration.*


 another coincidence that increased levels of PGE2 and PGF2A has been able to regenerate follicles?





> What a joke. Nothing you say is credible when you make assumptions like this. Cotsarelis finding shows a potential treatment but the finding didn't show a cure. Possibly might be with further work.


 I see you didn't read the actual study ...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## gutted

> Cotsarelis works for Follica: http://www.follicabio.com/
> 
> I'm sure they're doing something but since it's a private company they have no obligation to reveal anything to us.... That patent probably raises the value of their company.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> because..... that study PROVES that PGD2 is inhibiting hair growth. 
> A mouse did not grow his hair back until they stopped applying PGD2 on his fur. A cultured human follicle was significantly shortened when exposed to PGD2.
> ...


 
*the question is do you have to keep on using this for life to enjoy the benifits or until the hair has gained its thickness back?*

i presume you would only need to use it until the hairs are *regenerated* at which point if subsequent mintarisation does take place it would be a matter of repeating treatment, to gain bak thickness.

omega3/or EPA is available and can already achieve what your trying to do.
im thinking of starting this as an internal, but im on other things and dont want to blur results.

----------


## clandestine

Well, this all remains good in theory, but until we're actually able to prove such claims one way or another, these findings are of no tangible use to the hair loss community.

----------


## gutted

> Well, this all remains good in theory, but until we're actually able to prove such claims one way or another, these findings are of no tangible use to the hair loss community.


 proving something like this works, is a very long way off.
experimentalists will soon prove/disprove whether this has any benefit at all, and i suspect it will, if everything is done correctly.

----------


## 2020

> *the question is do you have to keep on using this for life to enjoy the benifits or until the hair has gained its thickness back?*
> 
> i presume you would only need to use it until the hairs are *regenerated* at which point if subsequent mintarisation does take place it would be a matter of repeating treatment, to gain bak thickness.


 probably that altough I'm fine with using it for the rest of my life especially if it ever comes to a pill form  :Big Grin: 




> omega3/or EPA is available and can already achieve what your trying to do.
> im thinking of starting this as an internal, but im on other things and dont want to blur results.


 internal would be way too weak

----------


## 25 going on 65

Forgive me but I'm very skeptical at the idea that I can order a topical right now that will restore all my hair up to my adult hairline.

Though I can't help but be interested.

BTW, if no company is releasing a treatment based on this science because of Cotsarelis' patent, then that guy is the walking definition of a patent-trolling bastard.

----------


## gutted

> probably that altough I'm fine with using it for the rest of my life especially if it ever comes to a pill form 
> 
> 
> 
> *internal would be way too weak*


 

whats to say the pill form of OC000459 wont be weak too.

besides, tackling the pathogens that cause the excess pgd2 is much more a better approach, this is what niz/keto shampoo addresses...you need to read the following article.

Androgenetic alopecia and microinflammation
Yann F. Mahé,PhD, Jean-François Michelet,MSc, Nelly Billoni, MSc, Françoise Jarrousse, BTS , Bruno Buan, BTS , Stephane Commo, BTS, Didier Saint-Léger,PhD and Bruno A. Bernard,PhD

----------


## 2020

> Forgive me but I'm very skeptical at the idea that I can order a topical right now that will restore all my hair up to my adult hairline.


 You can't order this topical. It hasn't been made yet  :Smile: 

I'm 100% positive if you got rid of excess PGD2, you will regrow hair. Whether this particular drug can do exactly that, that's another question  :Wink: 





> BTW, if no company is releasing a treatment based on this science because of Cotsarelis' patent, then that guy is the walking definition of a patent-trolling bastard.


 he may not be trolling.... his company(Follica) may be using it so it's all fair  :Stick Out Tongue: 





> whats to say the pill form of OC000459 wont be weak too.


 that's why we'll be using it as a topical  :Cool:

----------


## 25 going on 65

Thanks for correcting me 2020.

Can I ask what makes you so sure that eliminating PGD2 can fully regrow hair? What about some NW7 who has had a bare dome for 25 years?
To me it seems like the prolonged miniaturization process might have some kind of lasting impact on follicles' ability to grow proper terminal hairs...but I also have no clue what I'm talking about, so hopefully I'm wrong.

----------


## 2020

> Thanks for correcting me 2020.
> 
> Can I ask what makes you so sure that eliminating PGD2 can fully regrow hair? 
> What about some NW7 who has had a bare dome for 25 years?


 because when you eliminate PGD2, you're left with two other good prostaglandins: PGF2 and PGE2.
PGE2 actually induces growth factors so yeah overtime it will regrow your hair for sure  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 





> To me it seems like the prolonged miniaturization process might have some kind of lasting impact on follicles' ability to grow proper terminal hairs...but I also have no clue what I'm talking about, so hopefully I'm wrong.


 it doesn't matter. MPB is not auto-immune or anything so there is no permanent damage.
Your body can make hair grow then shrink then grow back again. It has both of those functions

----------


## 25 going on 65

Well then my body is lame.

Another question I've thought of... how does PGD2 tie in to DHT? For a long time we thought DHT was the main culprit in genetic hair loss, and there's no doubt that reducing it stops, slows or reverses the process. What's up with that?

----------


## WillhasWill

I think you have been brain washed by the guys at the other forums 2020?

----------


## 2020

> Well then my body is lame.
> 
> Another question I've thought of... how does PGD2 tie in to DHT? For a long time we thought DHT was the main culprit in genetic hair loss, and there's no doubt that reducing it stops, slows or reverses the process. What's up with that?


 not sure although I'm positive that blocking DHT would produce less inflammatory response and therefore less PGD2, so that's why it works....




> I think you have been brain washed by the guys at the other forums 2020?


 yeah okay I'll prove you wrong with a full regrowth in a few months  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## WillhasWill

> yeah okay I'll prove you wrong with a full regrowth in a few months


 I really really hope you do :-).

But then again, I'm not saying it won't. The theory sounds brilliant. I just think it's irresponsible to go around making wild accusations that this is the cure to baldness. It is all theory at the moment after all.

By the way what stage of loss are you at and what treatments are you using if any?

----------


## 25 going on 65

> yeah okay I'll prove you wrong with a full regrowth in a few months


 Do it! and keep us updated. The hell with those other forums.

----------


## 2020

> I really really hope you do :-).
> 
> But then again, I'm not saying it won't. The theory sounds brilliant. I just think it's irresponsible to go around making wild accusations that this is the cure to baldness. It is all theory at the moment after all.
> 
> By the way what stage of loss are you at and what treatments are you using if any?


 
not really a theory.... 
We know that some prostaglandins GROW HAIR and some prostaglandins INHIBIT HAIR GROWTH.
Bald people have more of the prostaglandin that inhibits hair growth.
What do you think will happen once you block that protein? Why wouldn't it start growing? What's stopping it?

----------------
~ NW2

regimen:
toco-8
nizoral 2%
revivogen

about to start OC0459 that's why I dropped fin in order to measure my real results

----------


## WillhasWill

> not really a theory.... 
> We know that some prostaglandins GROW HAIR and some prostaglandins INHIBIT HAIR GROWTH.
> Bald people have more of the prostaglandin that inhibits hair growth.
> What do you think will happen once you block that protein? Why wouldn't it start growing? What's stopping it?
> 
> ----------------
> ~ NW2
> 
> regimen:
> ...


 Please tell me you're not serious? Why wouldn't it start growing? Well, probably for a million reasons that you or I don't know because we are non-scientists. And even they don't necessarily know.

A really relevant and recent example of how theory doesn't always support reality - REPLICEL. The theory is great but it's not as rosy in reality (hopefully they improve on their treatment in their next clinical trials).

A reason why the Replicel boards were full of shit was because there were loads of people like you expecting a black or white answer to a black and white question - Does it work or doesn't it? But you must understand it's not as simple as that. But I see you reacting in a similar way to this finding.

Lets slow the pace down and stop suggesting this is the cure to baldness. As far as I'm aware nothing has been found that PDG2 is an isolated cause of hair loss.

How are you finding your regimen, what results have you had?

----------


## greatjob!

> it doesn't matter. MPB is not auto-immune or anything so there is no permanent damage.
> Your body can make hair grow then shrink then grow back again. It has both of those functions


 You keep saying that it has nothing to do with the immune system, you do realize that PGD2 is intimately connected with the immune system don't you? PGD2 is produced by mast cells (involved in the immune system), it then recruits helper t cells, eosinophils and basophils (all white blood cells & part of the immune system). So saying PGD2 is the problem and at the same time saying it has nothing to do with the immune system makes you sound extremely ignorant and uninformed. PGD2 may very well be a critical component to solving hair loss, but to say that's it we have found it, NW7---> NW1 is very irresponsible. Remember how exited everyone got during the lead up to replicel's results and then the crash when their expectations where smashed to shit? There are still many unknown mechanisms and as I have learned through my studies usually when you target or eliminate one variable many unexpected outcomes arise. I like your optimism but I believe it is extremely premature.

----------


## 2020

we will know everything in a couple months! You'll see...

----------


## clandestine

> not really a theory.... 
> 
> about to start OC0459 that's why I dropped fin in order to measure my real results


 Well, you sound confident. That much is for sure!

----------


## greatjob!

> we will know everything in a couple months! You'll see...


 I pray that you're right, and even though I don't share your optimism I thank you for giving this a go, whether it works or not you and the other guys trying this stuff out are doing everyone here a big favor.

----------


## clandestine

> I pray that you're right, and even though I don't share your optimism I thank you for giving this a go, whether it works or not you and the other guys trying this stuff out are doing everyone here a big favor.


 If it indeed works, they'll be doing themselves a big favour, too!  :Wink:

----------


## gutted

> You keep saying that it has nothing to do with the immune system, you do realize that PGD2 is intimately connected with the immune system don't you? PGD2 is produced by mast cells (involved in the immune system), it then recruits helper t cells, eosinophils and basophils (all white blood cells & part of the immune system). So saying PGD2 is the problem and at the same time saying it has nothing to do with the immune system makes you sound extremely ignorant and uninformed. PGD2 may very well be a critical component to solving hair loss, but to say that's it we have found it, NW7---> NW1 is very irresponsible. Remember how exited everyone got during the lead up to replicel's results and then the crash when their expectations where smashed to shit? There are still many unknown mechanisms and as I have learned through my studies usually when you target or eliminate one variable many unexpected outcomes arise. I like your optimism but I believe it is extremely premature.


 i think everyone is just taking 2020's enthusiasm out of proportion...besides its not the "cure" until its *fda approved*. There is no harm in testing this out, and if it regrows a hair on his hairline, im jumping on it straight away!

----------


## clandestine

Speculation remains speculation; patiently we all await.

----------


## Aston

It's not a cure in any case, it will probably require daily applications. Plus the patented MPB Prostaglandin treatment is a mix of growth stimulating 'glandins and PGD2 inhibitor(s) and not just the latter. I'm assuming it could be marketed as a daily use shampoo. We also know that androgenic receptors can mutate when inhibited too much, who can tell that won't happen with the PGD2 receptor as well? 
I think the most realistic expectation is, as usual, a mix of the best and the worst: a pretty good treatment which requires daily application and can lose effectiveness after a few years, being somewhat expensive as well. Something to look forward too? Definitely, but "the cure"? I seriously doubt it.

Then again, i would be incredibly glad to be proven wrong.

----------


## gutted

> It's not a cure in any case, it will probably require daily applications. Plus the patented MPB Prostaglandin treatment is a mix of growth stimulating 'glandins and PGD2 inhibitor(s) and not just the latter. I'm assuming it could be marketed as a daily use shampoo. We also know that androgenic receptors can mutate when inhibited too much, who can tell that won't happen with the PGD2 receptor as well? 
> I think the most realistic expectation is, as usual, a mix of the best and the worst: a pretty good treatment which requires daily application and can lose effectiveness after a few years, being somewhat expensive as well. Something to look forward too? Definitely, but "the cure"? I seriously doubt it.
> 
> Then again, i would be incredibly glad to be proven wrong.


 its possible it may require daily use, but again its also possible it may not require daly use, only until the hairs have been allowed to regenerate.

i think minox and propecia have put a misconception into peoples heads that whatever they use for baldness needs to be used for life, which is the case for minox but possibly not the case for propecia.

heres a patent that explains the use of antibiotics to fight hair loss, but the intresting thing the inventor notes is that it only needs to be used for a limited time, not for life. 


http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/57...scription.html

i think the guys on the other forum trying this out also need to address their scalp health also, nizoral may suffice.


once MPB is finally figured out, i see products being released which will reverse baldness/thinning and will NOT neccasarily need to be used for life however maintenance sessions may be needed if you experience subsequent thinng.

----------


## Aston

> heres a patent that explains the use of antibiotics to fight hair loss, but the intresting thing the inventor notes is that it only needs to be used for a limited time, not for life. 
> 
> 
> http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/57...scription.html
> 
> i think the guys on the other forum trying this out also need to address their scalp health also, nizoral may suffice.


 If that actually works and works as described, an increase in hair nutrients ingested would also be recommendable...

----------


## gutted

> If that actually works and works as described, an increase in hair nutrients ingested would also be recommendable...


 it probably works by getting rid of the infection, not by increasing nutrients to the hair follicle. Increasing nutrients to the follicle is probably a by product of getting rid of the infection.

Minoxidil increases nutrients to the follicle to, it triggers the pathway required for hair regrowth (nitric oxide, decreases pgd2, increase the good prostglandins) but it does this artificially the key to permanent hair regrowth is doing this natrually, getting the body to do it rather than some chemical!

we will have to wait a few months while those guys test it out, to see if daily applications will be required.

----------


## Aston

My reasoning is that since nutrients don't reach the follicles with MPB, but do once the inflammation is subsided, increasing the amount of hair nutrients ingested would also make the results of the procedure easier to see. There are quite a few known hair growth accelerators.

----------


## gutted

> There are quite a few known hair growth accelerators.


 most require continual application or results subside, hence they are artificial short term growth stimulants, sort of like life support machine for the follicle.

----------


## jpm

How will this be delivered into the the scalp?

If it only needs to be used once or twice a week would it be an idea to just put it into shampoo? 

Sorry for the nooob questions. lol

----------


## Gjm127

Hey 2020, when will you guys get your hands on this? 
Are they preparing it in form of pills or foam?

----------


## 2020

> Hey 2020, when will you guys get your hands on this? 
> Are they preparing it in form of pills or foam?


 early june.

it will be a topical just like CB, RU....

----------


## jpm

> How will this be delivered into the the scalp?
> 
> If it only needs to be used once or twice a week would it be an idea to just put it into shampoo? 
> 
> Sorry for the nooob questions. lol


 


> early june.
> 
> it will be a topical just like CB, RU....


 @2020

Will you be trying it?

If it degrades the receptors rather than just blocks them. Surely it won't need to be used daily?? If, for example, the Androgen receptor takes 7 days to regenerate then surely using it once a week is enough?

----------


## jpm

> @2020
> 
> Will you be trying it?
> 
> If it degrades the receptors rather than just blocks them. Surely it won't need to be used daily?? If, for example, the Androgen receptor takes 7 days to regenerate then surely using it once a week is enough?


 just to add....I'm probably going to want to try this stuff because of the hype over it.

one more question....where are you going to buy it from?

----------


## 2020

> @2020
> 
> Will you be trying it?


 I'll try to get my hands on it, yes.





> If it degrades the receptors rather than just blocks them. Surely it won't need to be used daily?? If, for example, the Androgen receptor takes 7 days to regenerate then surely using it once a week is enough?


 huh? This is not how OC0459 work





> one more question....where are you going to buy it from?


 I don't know yet. The person who ordered the first will test it soon and if it doesn't happen to be a fake, then he will give us the name of the lab that made it

----------


## jpm

> huh? This is not how OC0459 work


 Sorry i must be getting confused!! how does it work then? is it a pdg2 inhibitor?

----------


## 2020

> Sorry i must be getting confused!! how does it work then? is it a pdg2 inhibitor?


 pretty much - it reduces the levels of PGD2

----------


## jpm

> pretty much - it reduces the levels of PGD2


 cheers...guess it will be a daily application then

----------


## jpm

I heard that this new treatment could be available early june.

If so and anyone gets hold of it. Please keep me updated. I would like to give this a try  :Smile:

----------


## Gjm127

Sorry again for being noob at all this.
Is this treatment going to be the first one that combats PGD2?

What about RU? What is RU doing?
Also, if Cotsarelis patented this invention, isn't it illegal for us to test it on ourselves?

----------


## jpm

> Sorry again for being noob at all this.
> Is this treatment going to be the first one that combats PGD2?
> 
> What about RU? What is RU doing?
> Also, if Cotsarelis patented this invention, isn't it illegal for us to test it on ourselves?


 I believe it comes from a lab in China (or somewhere) and it comes in pure chemical form for ''research'' purposes.

So therefore there maybe a patent out on pharmaceutical companies marketing a product that blocks PGD2.... but on a personal basis.....no-one cares!!

----------


## Gjm127

> I believe it comes from a lab in China (or somewhere) and it comes in pure chemical form for ''research'' purposes.
> 
> So therefore there maybe a patent out on pharmaceutical companies marketing a product that blocks PGD2.... but on a personal basis.....no-one cares!!


 But will it be the first one that combats PDG2?
What's RU? Brimatrpost thing too?

----------


## jpm

> But will it be the first one that combats PDG2?
> What's RU? Brimatrpost thing too?


 i think so. RU is an anti androgen...again a chemical for ''research'' purposes!

bimatoprost as i believe, stimulates PGF2alpha which is the good stuff that makes your hair grow and PGD2 is the bad stuff.

Thats really basic there!

EDIT - ive come across an online shop that apparently sells RU / RUM and says ''coming soon'' for a PGD2 blocker. I'm not convinced its legit till I hear otherwise

----------


## Gjm127

> i think so. RU is an anti androgen...again a chemical for ''research'' purposes!
> 
> bimatoprost as i believe, stimulates PGF2alpha which is the good stuff that makes your hair grow and PGD2 is the bad stuff.
> 
> Thats really basic there!
> 
> EDIT - ive come across an online shop that apparently sells RU / RUM and says ''coming soon'' for a PGD2 blocker. I'm not convinced its legit till I hear otherwise


 Thanks on the info!

But this means, by making RU, they already knew about the impact prostagladins were making on balding... Didn't they think that making a PGD2 inhibitor would help more? Cotsarelis' findings were nothing surprising then... since RU makers knew about this before we got all the news about PGD2 and Cotsarelis?

I AM CONFUSED!!!

----------


## ovoxo

i don't think that ru has something to do with prostaglandines

----------


## jpm

> i don't think that ru has something to do with prostaglandines


 you're right RU doesnt have any impact *directly* on PGD2

----------


## KeepHoping

What's the news on this?

----------


## Gjm127

You guys were supposed to get it early june.. right?

----------


## 2020

> GangsterBoy:
> They cant give me a date, Just Begin June. so hopefully within a few days!


 very soon yes...

----------


## KeepHoping

Can anyone order it?  How did you guys get your hands on it?

----------


## BoSox

Can somebody tell me exactly what OCOO459 is and why everybody is obsessed with it?

----------


## 2020

> Can somebody tell me exactly what OCOO459 is and why everybody is obsessed with it?


 http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/0...tern-baldness/

----------


## BoSox

Thanks 2020, didn't know it was related to that. Is this something that's being released soon? I thought they said it will take awhile before they find out of it will reverse or slow hair loss? Again sorry if I'm still missing something.

----------


## 2020

> Thanks 2020, didn't know it was related to that. Is this something that's being released soon? I thought they said it will take awhile before they find out of it will reverse or slow hair loss? Again sorry if I'm still missing something.


 OC0459 blocks production of PGD2(protein responsible for shrinking follicles).

OC0459 is currently in Phase 2 for asthma and allergies. They won't market it for MPB because they can't. There is a patent filed in 2007 that prevents anyone from making a product that treats MPB by blocking PGD2.

----------


## KeepHoping

Hey 2020, how are you going to make it?  What vehicle will you use and how will you mix it?

----------


## 2020

> Hey 2020, how are you going to make it?  What vehicle will you use and how will you mix it?


 I'm not going to make it.... some offshore lab has started making it and it will be available soon.

----------


## iHope

> I'm not going to make it.... some offshore lab has started making it and it will be available soon.


 I hope I it'll have reasonable price.  :Smile:

----------


## Gjm127

Who figures out the doses and how frequently you gotta put it?

----------


## 2020

> I hope I it'll have reasonable price.


 $80-$100 per gram. One gram will last about 2-3 months.

----------


## iHope

> $80-$100 per gram. One gram will last about 2-3 months.


 Nice... Gotta get myself a job! Thanks for info, you're awesome.

----------


## neversaynever

> OC0459 blocks production of PGD2(protein responsible for shrinking follicles).
> 
> OC0459 is currently in Phase 2 for asthma and allergies. They won't market it for MPB because they can't. There is a patent filed in 2007 that prevents anyone from making a product that treats MPB by blocking PGD2.


 Thats interesting...

Who holds the patent?

----------


## 2020

> Thats interesting...
> 
> Who holds the patent?


 I know right... PGD2 and MPB connection was made at least 5 years ago so I'm not sure what Cotsarelis is waiting for...


http://www.google.com/patents/US20110021599




> This invention provides methods of *treating androgenetic alopecia (AGA)*, acne, rosacea, prostate cancer, and benign prostatic hypertrophy (BPH), comprising the step of contacting a subject with a compound or composition capable of* decreasing prostaglandin D2 (PGD2) level or activity*


 


> Filing date: Jun 15, *2007*

----------


## hairysituation

Nice to see someone being so passionate and proactive, brah. As a general hypothese, do you excpect this PGD2 to just slow/arrest your hair loss, or to actually reverse it?

----------


## 2020

> Nice to see someone being so passionate and proactive, brah. As a general hypothese, do you excpect this PGD2 to just slow/arrest your hair loss, or to actually reverse it?


 I'm 99&#37; sure that it can reverse all of your loss if you also combined it with PGE2 analog.... but the problem is that the effects will be temporary as with minox because it won't solve the real underlying problem which is DHT somehow disrupting prostaglandin balance in the first place

----------


## Kirby_

^ your hypothesis is that both in combination will even restore hair on areas that have been slick-bald for years?

Major bummer that this combo might have to be ongoing as with fin and minox. Still, if they turn out to work significantly better than those old dinosaurs, that will be something positive.

----------


## Davey Jones

> I'm 99% sure that it can reverse all of your loss if you also combined it with PGE2 analog.... but the problem is that the effects will be temporary as with minox because it won't solve the real underlying problem which is DHT somehow disrupting prostaglandin balance in the first place


 This is a bold statement, 2020.  So in your opinion, OC000459 when combined with a PGE2 analog would totally cure for baldness (if applied regularly)?  Are you in the process of trying this?  And what is a PGE2 analog?

Sorry for the ignorance.

----------


## Pate

> This is a bold statement, 2020.  So in your opinion, OC000459 when combined with a PGE2 analog would totally cure for baldness (if applied regularly)?  Are you in the process of trying this?  And what is a PGE2 analog?
> 
> Sorry for the ignorance.


 It's a bold and, to be honest, completely unjustified statement, nobody can honestly say they are 99% sure... but there is definitely a theoretical basis for believing that it could work extremely well, if baldness really is caused by unbalanced PGs.

An 'analog' in pharmacology is a molecule has the same effect as another molecule - usually meaning, a synthetic drug that has the same effect as a natural protein/enzyme/whatever. In this case meaning a drug that binds to the same receptors in the hair follicle as PGE2 does. PGE2 is one of the 'good' prostaglandins.

So you want a PGE2 analog and a PGD2 inhibitor. And the other PGs are in there too somewhere...

----------


## hairysituation

Maybe he can't be 99&#37; certain that this PGD2-inhibitor could regrow hair, however I definitely respect this kind of proactivity. If it only arrest hair loss, it would still be a huge positive result. More power to 2020 and his passion!

----------


## iHope

In worst case scenario, it could give you extra years for your hair...

----------


## Davey Jones

> So you want a PGE2 analog and a PGD2 inhibitor. And the other PGs are in there too somewhere...


 Are there any obtainable compounds that act as PGE2?  I'd love to see 2020 go through with it.  

If it works like he thinks, 2020 will have hair (which is nice) and we will know of a way to restore our hair (which is _really_ nice).  That's assuming 2020 would come back to spread the gospel, but I think anyone who knows how hairloss can make life for us (which 2020 does) would come back (or never leave in the first place).




> In worst case scenario, it could give you extra years for your hair...


 Worst case scenario is (usually) that it does nothing at all, and then at very least he'll have weeded out one more thing that doesn't work.

----------


## neversaynever

> It's a bold and, to be honest, completely unjustified statement, nobody can honestly say they are 99% sure... but there is definitely a theoretical basis for believing that it could work extremely well, if baldness really is caused by unbalanced PGs.
> 
> An 'analog' in pharmacology is a molecule has the same effect as another molecule - usually meaning, a synthetic drug that has the same effect as a natural protein/enzyme/whatever. In this case meaning a drug that binds to the same receptors in the hair follicle as PGE2 does. PGE2 is one of the 'good' prostaglandins.
> 
> So you want a PGE2 analog and a PGD2 inhibitor. And the other PGs are in there too somewhere...


 Im not so knowledge. Upto a few months ago I thought PGs was a type of tea.

Im very curious about histogen and prostaglandins. Does HSC involve prostaglandins? Theyre getting good growth rates, surely that means they are restoring the balance in good and bad PG's?

----------


## 2020

> Are there any obtainable compounds that act as PGE2?  I'd love to see 2020 go through with it.


 yes, and they're very expensive. People on HLH are trying to form a group buy so they can obtain it cheaper.

----------


## 2020

> Im very curious about histogen and prostaglandins. Does HSC involve prostaglandins? Theyre getting good growth rates, surely that means they are restoring the balance in good and bad PG's?


 that's a million dollar question  :Big Grin: 

if your hair(or lack of it) is just a product of the ratio of certain good and bad prostaglandins, then in order to grow hair there must be something that changes that "ratio" in a hair positive way....

I hope HSC does truly change PG ratio otherwise I can't see how it would work besides just forcing your hair into anagen phase which would only last once but for at least a couple years...

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> yes, and they're very expensive. People on HLH are trying to form a group buy so they can obtain it cheaper.


 

why doesn't somebody just start a company instead of some amateur group buy... it would work out the same and probably be easier to finance.

----------


## 2020

> why doesn't somebody just start a company instead of some amateur group buy... it would work out the same and probably be easier to finance.


 what are you talking about?

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> what are you talking about?


 
I mean somebody start a ****ing company. Sell bonds or shares. Get a shitload of money. Buy a load of what you're talking about. Try it. If it works, then buy a shitload of the shit you're talking about and sell that shit for a shitload of money more than originally invested. TRX4/spectral f7  style.

----------


## bananana

well, if it DOESN'T work, you got yourself a shitload of shit that wont work and you've lost a shitload of money.  :Big Grin: 

so, at least 5-10 people gotta try it first, see if it works and if it does somebody will open the company, don't worry.

----------


## ppxrare

When can we expect news on whether PGD2 inhibitors work or not, and if they do work  how long do you guys think it will take for a product to be out there.

----------


## NeedHairASAP

Did this guy get the ocoooo459 yet or what?

----------


## 2020

> Did this guy get the ocoooo459 yet or what?


 "I got a replay on Friday, They are now with the Latest synthesis step of OC000459. They told me its harder then expected to make it 99% pure.. So I hope everything goes well and that we have it within the next days/2 weeks.. "


all of this is happening on HLH:
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...VIEWTMP=Linear

----------


## Aston

Just to stir the moldy pudding over here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11589743

(@Gutted: it seems the production of TNFa is typically increased during metabolic imbalances connected to certain dietary disorders and is a major inflammation kickstarter.)

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> Just to stir the moldy pudding over here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11589743
> 
> (@Gutted: it seems the production of TNFa is typically increased during metabolic imbalances connected to certain dietary disorders and is a major inflammation kickstarter.)


 whats your point?


diet can kick start inflammation in the scalp?

----------


## Aston

There are known and proven associations, but it's still nebulous. I have started a thread about one possible theory days ago.

----------


## Kirby_

> When can we expect news on whether PGD2 inhibitors work or not, and if they do work  how long do you guys think it will take for a product to be out there.


 Well, for it to work, I imagine that the first-wave of users would need 3 to 6 months to judge the effects, preferably 6. Hypothetically.

----------


## 2020

> Just to stir the moldy pudding over here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11589743
> 
> (@Gutted: it seems the production of TNFa is typically increased during metabolic imbalances connected to certain dietary disorders and is a major inflammation kickstarter.)


 come on dude.... those people on IH take everything to the extreme too and NO ONE has regrew any hair. When can we put this "MPB due to lifestyle" theory to rest???

I personally know people who are pretty much on life support due to the number of drugs they're taking and yet they have a full head of hair. Explain that

----------


## ccmethinning

> come on dude.... those people on IH take everything to the extreme too and NO ONE has regrew any hair. When can we put this "MPB due to lifestyle" theory to rest???
> 
> I personally know people who are pretty much on life support due to the number of drugs they're taking and yet they have a full head of hair. Explain that


 Nobody is saying a bad diet causes MPB. You are either predispositioned to it or you're not. But perhaps certain lifestyles and diets either accelerate or decelerate the progression MPB.

----------


## Pate

> Are there any obtainable compounds that act as PGE2?  I'd love to see 2020 go through with it.


 2020 knows more about this stuff than I do, but isn't bimatoprost actually a PGE analog? I believe it is...




> Im very curious about histogen and prostaglandins. Does HSC involve prostaglandins? Theyre getting good growth rates, surely that means they are restoring the balance in good and bad PG's?


 HSC doesn't involve PGs specifically, it involves growth factors. Before the PG link was publicised, you could say the same thing about DHT - if HSC can regrow hair surely that means it is correcting the DHT imbalance in the scalp, right?

But no, it doesn't actually mean that. It could just be that the growth factors have a far more fundamental effect that the DHT and its evil PG henchmen can't fight against. 

The other possibility is that the growth factors do somehow trigger a reaction that restores PG balance back to its pre-balding state.

Nobody knows yet. All we know is that HSC appears to grow hair even though it doesn't directly use PGs.

----------


## Gjm127

Any news? Aren't you guys scared of trying this thing since it's not tested?

----------


## Davey Jones

> Any news? Aren't you guys scared of trying this thing since it's not tested?


 Fortune favors the fearless.

----------


## Aston

Blocking PGD2 in scalp can only do good and the quantity that goes systemic will be too low to do anything. The only really worry is whether the product is pure enough, which it presumably will be.

----------


## 2020

> Any news? Aren't you guys scared of trying this thing since it's not tested?


 it's been tested IN ITS ORAL FORM - 200 mg a day on hundreds of people and it was declared safe.

straight from their website:



> OC000459 has demonstrated an excellent safety profile in over 800 subjects

----------


## youngsufferer

When will we know if this works?

----------


## 2020

> When will we know if this works?


 every piece of information related to OC0459 is in this thread:
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...VIEWTMP=Linear


GangsterBoy is in charge. His latest post:




> Its been deleyed  Probably for 2-3 weeks. Its seems much harder then the estimated to get it for human usage wich is 99&#37;. So they are now purifying it intill its reaches the minimum of 99% pure. This product is not well documented on how to get it this pure, thats why it takes time. 
> 
> 
> We have to be a bit more patience .

----------


## JDW

where is this available in oral form at the moment?

----------


## youngsufferer

I was really excited about replicel and they did nothing and had no backing evidence that their methods would even work. Now we're seeing all these studies on pdg2 and I can only hope that it's all correct and we're right around the corner from the actual cure. If inhibiting pdg2 doesn't get our hair back, I give up, all studies point to this being the golden ticket.

----------


## neversaynever

2020...

Is it assumed that there is an over production of PGD2 or under production of the good PGs?

Or is it receptors in follicles prone to MPB that gather the PGD2?

----------


## 2020

> 2020...
> 
> Is it assumed that there is an over production of PGD2 or under production of the good PGs?
> 
> Or is it receptors in follicles prone to MPB that gather the PGD2?


 it's not assumed, it's a fact.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=MNT...page&q&f=false

Page 78 - bottom right corner.

in a bald scalp there is 2x less PGE2 and more than 3x more PGD2. 

If you created the same environment on a person who is "not prone to baldness", he would go bald nonetheless.

mice that were genetically engineered to lack PGD2 receptors were immune to baldness no matter what they've applied...

----------


## neversaynever

> it's not assumed, it's a fact.
> 
> http://www.google.com/patents?id=MNT...page&q&f=false
> 
> Page 78 - bottom right corner.
> 
> in a bald scalp there is 2x less PGE2 and more than 3x more PGD2. 
> 
> If you created the same environment on a person who is "not prone to baldness", he would go bald nonetheless.
> ...


 Assumed was the wrong word. But if we inhibit PGD2, how would we increase PGE2 to normal levels again?

----------


## neversaynever

> it's not assumed, it's a fact.
> 
> http://www.google.com/patents?id=MNT...page&q&f=false
> 
> Page 78 - bottom right corner.
> 
> in a bald scalp there is 2x less PGE2 and more than 3x more PGD2. 
> 
> If you created the same environment on a person who is "not prone to baldness", he would go bald nonetheless.
> ...


 Dr cots holds the patent? for what exactly?

So, he releases the big news about pgd2 but holds a patent that would make him very rich if pgd2 treatments become the next generation of hair loss treatments? clever!

----------


## 2020

> But if we inhibit PGD2, how would we increase PGE2 to normal levels again?


 maybe we won't have to.... maybe inhibiting PGD2 ONLY will give us desirable results.
Minox increases PGE2 somewhat so there's that.





> Dr cots holds the patent? for what exactly?
> 
> So, he releases the big news about pgd2 but holds a patent that would make him very rich if pgd2 treatments become the next generation of hair loss treatments? clever!


 well he was the one who discovered this PGD2 thing so it's totally fair to claim a patent on it

----------


## youngsufferer

I can't stress this enough, if this doesn't work we are all ****ED.

----------


## re22

Why? This isn't the only thing going on.

----------


## Kirby_

> maybe we won't have to.... maybe inhibiting PGD2 ONLY will give us desirable results.
> Minox increases PGE2 somewhat so there's that.


 I also hope that PGD2-inhibitors alone will be good enough, if only for the sake of everyday convenience! I'm sure that enough forum-goers will be using individual or combo treatments for us to get a decent general idea if the latter gets significantly better results.




> well he was the one who discovered this PGD2 thing so it's totally fair to claim a patent on it


 Fair enough, just wish he'd get a move on in terms of implementing the newfound knowledge for the benefit of the balding public...

----------


## gutted

a combination approach would be required for this though, i think a good antibacterial agent is also neccasary to stop the cause of the upregulation, or it'll be a tug of war scenario.

also a good vehicle to get the agent into the dermal papilla.

----------


## Gjm127

Question: If the OC000459 pill was taken orally through the clinical trials for that allergy treatment... Why didn't anyone see their hair grow back (to some extent) ?

----------


## 2020

> a combination approach would be required for this though, i think a good antibacterial agent is also neccasary to stop the cause of the upregulation, or it'll be a tug of war scenario.
> 
> also a good vehicle to get the agent into the dermal papilla.


 you have no idea what you're talking about... just go back to IH forums

----------


## 2020

> Question: If the OC000459 pill was taken orally through the clinical trials for that allergy treatment... Why didn't anyone see their hair grow back (to some extent) ?


 because the trial lasted only 2 months or so

----------


## gutted

> you have no idea what you're talking about... just go back to IH forums


 are you having a laugh? at best this would provide results on par with minoxidil, minoxidil has been claimed to be workking via the prostglandins mechanism for years in some people, yet this is not enough to stop someone from going bald. i wonder why!

your best bet if you want to maintain your hair is get on a androgen recepter blocker, before its too late.

this is all experimental and there is no garantee that this will be working.

----------


## 2020

> are you having a laugh? at best this would provide results on par with minoxidil, minoxidil has been claimed to be workking via the prostglandins mechanism for years in some people, yet this is not enough to stop someone from going bald. i wonder why!
> 
> your best bet if you want to maintain your hair is get on a androgen recepter blocker, before its too late.
> 
> this is all experimental and there is no garantee that this will be working.


 first of all, minoxidil is not that effective at raising PGE2 levels. A direct PGE2 would be a much better solution.

second: the reason why minoxidil doesn't work that well is because it doesn't take care of the main problem which is excessive PGD2 which is very good at inhibiting hair growth

----------


## Davey Jones

> are you having a laugh? at best this would provide results on par with minoxidil, minoxidil has been claimed to be workking via the prostglandins mechanism for years in some people, yet this is not enough to stop someone from going bald. i wonder why!
> 
> your best bet if you want to maintain your hair is get on a androgen recepter blocker, before its too late.
> 
> this is all experimental and there is no garantee that this will be working.


 Minox only increases PGE2.  And I'm not even sure how much.  Supposedly, the larger effect (the inhibition of hair growth, rather than the promotion of it) is due to PGD2.  Minox doesn't nothing to inhibit conversion of compounds into PGD2 or block PGD2 from binding with its receptor site.  OC000459 blocks PGD2's receptor site.

Though I do think your question about what the vehicle would be is interesting.  I'm wondering the same thing, myself.  Do you guys have an idea for that yet, 2020, or is there a reason that that's a stupid question?

----------


## gutted

http://divineskin.com/uk/spectralDNC...oxidilMech.PDF

----------


## gutted

> Minox only increases PGE2.  And I'm not even sure how much.  Supposedly, the larger effect (the inhibition of hair growth, rather than the promotion of it) is due to PGD2.  Minox doesn't nothing to inhibit conversion of compounds into PGD2 or block PGD2 from binding with its receptor site.  OC000459 blocks PGD2's receptor site.
> 
> Though I do think your question about what the vehicle would be is interesting.  I'm wondering the same thing, myself.  Do you guys have an idea for that yet, 2020, or is there a reason that that's a stupid question?


 the vehicle is key, if thats not right, this will be a failiure.

----------


## gutted

> first of all, minoxidil is not that effective at raising PGE2 levels. A direct PGE2 would be a much better solution.
> 
> second: the reason why minoxidil doesn't work that well is because it doesn't take care of the main problem which is excessive PGD2 which is very good at inhibiting hair growth


 you need to look at the bigger picture, theres a reason why dr cots has been holding onto the patent since 2008...

your going to block pgd2 on one hand and then increase dht on the other....i dont see it working...it'll probably provide results the same as minox and baldness will advance sureley but slowly.

lets hope im wrong though!

----------


## neversaynever

> I also hope that PGD2-inhibitors alone will be good enough, if only for the sake of everyday convenience! I'm sure that enough forum-goers will be using individual or combo treatments for us to get a decent general idea if the latter gets significantly better results.
> 
> 
> Fair enough, just wish he'd get a move on in terms of implementing the newfound knowledge for the benefit of the balding public...


 I dont get it. He has the knowledge, and the patent, so why no word on solutions? Hes passing the buck to other companies. I can only think because if a big pharma find an amazing treatment, theyll have to pay him royalties. Ive seen a video of him saying that there are a number of companies already testing pgd2 blockers (not for hair loss). This implies that he has no desire to provide the 'solution'.

Maybe he knows its not the silver bullet? Or maybe he knows it will be big and he will rake in millions in royalties?

Also, does anyone know the relationshp of pge2 and pgd2? Does pgd2 directly decrease the amount of pge2 in balding areas? If the pge2 levels are lower, regardless of pgd2 levels, then a pgd2 blocker is not enough really.

What about allergens treatment? Does dr cots mention pgf2a levels in balding areas?

----------


## 2020

> you need to look at the bigger picture, theres a reason why dr cots has been holding onto the patent since 2008...


 and what would be the reason? Maybe his company - follica is working on some PGD2 stuff you never know




> your going to block pgd2 on one hand and then increase dht on the other....i dont see it working...it'll probably provide results the same as minox and baldness will advance sureley but slowly.


 why would I increase DHT?

----------


## gutted

> I dont get it. He has the knowledge, and the patent, so why no word on solutions? Hes passing the buck to other companies. I can only think because if a big pharma find an amazing treatment, theyll have to pay him royalties. Ive seen a video of him saying that there are a number of companies already testing pgd2 blockers (not for hair loss). This implies that he has no desire to provide the 'solution'.
> 
> Maybe he knows its not the silver bullet? Or maybe he knows it will be big and he will rake in millions in royalties?
> 
> Also, does anyone know the relationshp of pge2 and pgd2? Does pgd2 directly decrease the amount of pge2 in balding areas? If the pge2 levels are lower, regardless of pgd2 levels, then a pgd2 blocker is not enough really.
> 
> What about allergens treatment? Does dr cots mention pgf2a levels in balding areas?


 
i was thinking the same thing, its as if he had no desire to pursue this further which was strange to me too.

its likeley with these prostglandins the balance is always maintained, if one thing increases pge2 then this would have a knock on effect on pgd2 etc etc

dr cots probably knew its nothing more than super strength minoxidil.

----------


## gutted

> and what would be the reason? Maybe his company - follica is working on some PGD2 stuff you never know
> 
> 
> 
> why would I increase DHT?


 i meant your dht levels would still remain high increasing the pgd2, whilst you try and block pgd2, tug of war!

----------


## 2020

> i meant your dht levels would still remain high increasing the pgd2, whilst you try and block pgd2, tug of war!


 ???

DHT -> high PGD2

remove PGD2

DHT -> NOTHING!

why would you even care about DHT?

----------


## neversaynever

> i was thinking the same thing, its as if he had no desire to pursue this further which was strange to me too.
> 
> its likeley with these prostglandins the balance is always maintained, if one thing increases pge2 then this would have a knock on effect on pgd2 etc etc
> 
> dr cots probably knew its nothing more than super strength minoxidil.


 I think if blocking pgd2 was a super next gen treatment, dr cots would have been all over it. It seems a big part of the puzzle, but theres still a missing piece. 

Until we find the link between DHT and PG's and baldness....no cure.

Im more hopeful of a treatment that can save vellus, thin hairs and keeping terminal hairs. So far, that seems like histogen. I have a feeling allergen will have something too, before anyone else. They dont even need funding. But I do see a PGf2a section in dr cots patent, is that a problem for allergen?

I would LOVE to hear histogens opinions of PG levels. Dr Z has spoken of dr cots studies in a past interview, and that they keep an eye on new developments. I wonder if theyve tested PG levels in patients before and after HSC is applied?

----------


## neversaynever

> ???
> 
> DHT -> high PGD2
> 
> remove PGD2
> 
> DHT -> NOTHING!
> 
> why would you even care about DHT?


 Can you point me to a study to prove that? Im not  being hostile, just curious...

----------


## gutted

> ???
> 
> DHT -> high PGD2
> 
> remove PGD2
> 
> DHT -> NOTHING!
> 
> why would you even care about DHT?


 you cant remove pgd2 fully, it will eventually catchup with you.

----------


## 2020

> Can you point me to a study to prove that? Im not  being hostile, just curious...


 study that proves what? That DHT causes PGD2 to rise? There is no such study but it's pretty obvious that this happens...

----------


## gutted

> Can you point me to a study to prove that? Im not  being hostile, just curious...


 hers a study that might help explain why pgd2 remains upregulated in balding scalps

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14632179

----------


## 2020

> you cant remove pgd2 fully, it will eventually catchup with you.


 what do you mean by that?

----------


## gutted

> what do you mean by that?


 it'l lose effectiveness over time like propecia.

----------


## neversaynever

> study that proves what? That DHT causes PGD2 to rise? There is no such study but it's pretty obvious that this happens...


 How is it obvious....explain it please. Id be extremely happy to see proof that DHT directly increases PGd2, or at least a good explanation...

----------


## 2020

> it'l lose effectiveness over time like propecia.


 ..... do you know WHY propecia lose its effectiveness? If you do, then that would answer your own question.

PGD2 blockers will NEVER EVER EVER EVER lose its effectiveness.

----------


## 2020

> How is it obvious....explain it please. Id be extremely happy to see proof that DHT directly increases PGd2, or at least a good explanation...


 in that study they said that testosterone and probably DHT affect ptgds which actually produces PGD2.
PGD2 is known to shrink follicles so that's a fact.
When a person is using DHT blockers, it's pretty obvious to assume to his PGD2 levels also go down a bit otherwise he wouldn't get any regrowth because of PGD2

----------


## gutted

> ..... do you know WHY propecia lose its effectiveness? If you do, then that would answer your own question.
> 
> PGD2 blockers will NEVER EVER EVER EVER lose its effectiveness.


 looool

10-char

----------


## 2020

> looool
> 
> 10-char


 explain why Propecia loses its effectiveness and then try explaining how would that even be possible with PGD2 stuff.

lol why did you leave IH forums? Yesterday they tried solving hair loss with "ocean water" and "hair brushing" and today they're saying that SHOES ARE BAD FOR YOU because it creates more heat in your body thus causing male pattern baldness  :Big Grin:  it's pathetic...

----------


## gutted

> explain why Propecia loses its effectiveness and then try explaining how would that even be possible with PGD2 stuff.
> 
> lol why did you leave IH forums? Yesterday they tried solving hair loss with "ocean water" and "hair brushing" and today they're saying that SHOES ARE BAD FOR YOU because it creates more heat in your body thus causing male pattern baldness  it's pathetic...


 loooool

at best blocking pgd2 provides an extra layer of protection from baldness *in conjuction* with dht blockers.

To suggest this is a stand alone treatment is not justifiable yet.

pgd2 is probably part of the natrual cycling physiology of the hair.

you want to do some experiments go and read up on benaxoprofen.

----------


## 2020

> loooool
> 
> at best blocking pgd2 provides an extra layer of protection from baldness *in conjuction* with dht blockers.
> 
> To suggest this is a stand alone treatment is not justifiable yet.
> 
> pgd2 is probably part of the natrual cycling physiology of the hair.
> 
> you want to do some experiments go and read up on benaxoprofen.


 take that crap to IH forums...

blocking PGD2 and raising PGE2 would regrow all your hair. You'll see... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## neversaynever

> in that study they said that testosterone and probably DHT affect ptgds which actually produces PGD2.
> PGD2 is known to shrink follicles so that's a fact.
> When a person is using DHT blockers, it's pretty obvious to assume to his PGD2 levels also go down a bit otherwise he wouldn't get any regrowth because of PGD2


 Interesting, though I feel not conclusive. 

In vivo effects of prostaglandin D2 (PGD2) on rat testicular testosterone levels were studied. Testosterone levels were determined by HPLC after 6 hours of PGD2 and of hCG. The testosterone levels were decreased by dose of 500 micrograms/rat intraperitoneal injection. Testis testosterone levels were subsequently decreased by intratesticular injection with PGD2 (1.0 micrograms) into the right testis. The left testis received vehicle alone for control. The increase in testosterone levels induced by hCG (50, 100 and 500 unit/rat s.c.) were also inhibited by intraperitoneal injection of 500 micrograms of PGD2. On the other hand, intratesticular injection of hCG (0.01, 0.1 and 1.0 unit/testis) caused an increase in testosterone levels according to dose of hCG. The increase in testosterone levels by hCG was inhibited by simultaneous injection of PGD2 (1.0 micrograms/testis). These results suggest that PGD2 may play an inhibitory action on LH action in androgen synthesis in the rat testis.

another study i found.

SO PGD2 might be fending of dht...and vice versa. maybe that is the root of the MPB issue? An ancient battle in which our hair is caught in the middle? hahaha.

Im sure its more complicated than that, and ive yet to be convinced, and cant read these studies without my minding bending. So, ill just hope youre right, that DHT increases PGD2, which is the final molecule in the MPB chain that strangles our poor follicles into submission.

One thing makes sense. Fin slows balding, and maybe you'll get some regrowth. So an early to moderate stage of hairloss the PG levels might be high, but not as high as an NW6 or NW7. Therefor, when fin decreases DHT, PGd2 halt where they are. Or at least slow down in increases. If the PGd2 levels are high, but not very high...we might get regrowth.

Glimmer of hope. But just a glimmer  :Smile:

----------


## neversaynever

> loooool
> 
> at best blocking pgd2 provides an extra layer of protection from baldness *in conjuction* with dht blockers.
> 
> To suggest this is a stand alone treatment is not justifiable yet.
> 
> pgd2 is probably part of the natrual cycling physiology of the hair.
> 
> you want to do some experiments go and read up on benaxoprofen.


 Yes this is my other thought, that we do need some level of PGD2. Non balding areas do have pgd2, just in lower numbers. So surely blocking it entirely is not restoring the normal balance?

----------


## gutted

> take that crap to IH forums...
> 
> blocking PGD2 and raising PGE2 would regrow all your hair. You'll see...


 
looool
im not saying it wont, but this is far from anything different that current and in development treatments can do, lantanoprost etc 

This is probably no gamechanger, hence why dr cots isnt pursuing it. This is probably another potent form of minoxidil.
But anyway i guess if it does work its something to add in addition to the dht blocking.

Also whoever tries it, they need to ONLY use this drug and this drug only.

----------


## gutted

> Yes this is my other thought, that we do need some level of PGD2. Non balding areas do have pgd2, just in lower numbers. So surely blocking it entirely is not restoring the normal balance?


 that is probably exactly what it is.
Just part of the hairs normal physiology.

----------


## 2020

OR: PGD2 is there to prevent overgrowth.

----------


## gutted

> OR: PGD2 is there to prevent overgrowth.


 what are you talking about.
it was shown in the pubmed article cox enzymes were high in a certain phase and low in another phase. this implies its part of the natrual cycling of the hair.

Minoxidil artificially sorts the prostglandin imbalance out (it puts hairs in the anagen phase permanently) yet it loses effectiveness over time. This is not going to be a permanent solution, but an addition.

something for you to read

http://www.nature.com/labinvest/jour.../3780556a.html

http://www.google.com/patents/US4912111

----------


## 2020

what are YOU talking about? why else would PGD2 be there in non-balding people?

----------


## gutted

> why else would PGD2 be there in non-balding people?


 what do you mean? pgd2 is present in balding people and non balding people.

i think you need to do more reading into what the function of pgd2 in cells is...

----------


## Conpecia

Looks like this has fizzled for the time being? A check on the initial link reveals there's been yet another delay. I was really excited about this a month ago, starting to get really skeptical... Hopefully the suppliers pull through and we can hear some good news of results by winter.

----------


## Kirby_

^ Still possible, IMO.  :Smile:  Although it is frustrating playing the waiting game, I agree. Got more confidence in this than anything else we currently know about.

----------


## Davey Jones

Yeah, I'm still excited by this.  After the lab figures out exactly how to get this stuff 99% pure, I don't think the issue will arise again.  If it's a methodological issue, they will just do it the right way from now on.  If it's a lengthy process issue, they will be able to prepare ahead of time and give accurate dates about availability.

What I like most about reading the other forum's page about this is how skeptical 2020 was at first.  Then, after doing some research, he's the internet's number 1 proponent.  And after doing some reading, I've got the same good feeling about it.

----------


## Conpecia

> What I like most about reading the other forum's page about this is how skeptical 2020 was at first.  Then, after doing some research, he's the internet's number 1 proponent.  And after doing some reading, I've got the same good feeling about it.


 Yeah me too regarding 2020. But I'll admit that I was really, really crushed by Replicel earlier this year. I hoped that I could just maintain for two or three more years and be cured by 30. That optimism took a real blow with those poor results so now I guess I'm more guarded. It's like I'm right on the fence with a possibility to go my whole life without ever being bald, but my hair gets worse and worse each month. To compound everything I've had horrible sides from fin and unacceptable ones from minox. The clock is really ticking for me. I'd say I have 1-2 years tops before I'm obviously balding to anyone who looks. Gotta have patience but at the same time I'll get a HT before I go slick, no doubt about it. I'm giving these treatments to 2015. After that, Gho time, followed by Shapiro group for the hairline.

----------


## lilpauly

It's not going to be produced.

----------


## Conpecia

> It's not going to be produced.


 Jesus Christ. Is there no hope for us? I am starting to think a cure won't be available for another 10-15 years. Think about it: there is still absolutely nothing on the market that works better than fin and minox, both of which have been around for decades. I just need something besides those that can preserve the hair I have left so I can get a hair transplant without losing the hair behind the transplanted hair. Apparently that's impossible...

----------


## Gjm127

> It's not going to be produced.


 Are you serious? Why?

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Jesus Christ. Is there no hope for us? I am starting to think a cure won't be available for another 10-15 years. Think about it: there is still absolutely nothing on the market that works better than fin and minox, both of which have been around for decades. I just need something besides those that can preserve the hair I have left so I can get a hair transplant without losing the hair behind the transplanted hair. Apparently that's impossible...


 you are wrong - HSC will be out in 3 years MAX.

----------


## 2020

yeah the lab couldn't produce it at 99% purity. Best they could do is 80% which is not good enough.
There are other labs but they are way too expensive....

----------


## BaldinLikeBaldwin

> It's not going to be produced.


 had to happen

----------


## Gjm127

So this "PGD2 blocking" lotion is not happening.
Histogen looks bad lately with what 2020 said about it offering only one hair cycle.
Replicel failed.
Aderans is so far away and their results look like Replicel's...

What's left? Seriously...

----------


## ccmethinning

Gho is left. Yes it is expensive, and no it probably won't give you a NW0 Elvis mane, but it serious looks like Gho is the next intermediate step in hair restoration progress. 

If people want hair, they need to start pressuring more surgeons to offer HST. Let's keep the HST awareness movement going.

----------


## Aston

Various PGD2 inhibitors are being researched. Even OC000459 can still happen if a less incompetent compounding service works on it. There are other already known PGD2 inhibitors as well.

----------


## Jairus

Can somebody elaborate on the Histogen cycle thing?

Sorry but I havent been on the forum in a bit and missed it.

Thanks

J

----------


## hellouser

> Can somebody elaborate on the Histogen cycle thing?
> 
> Sorry but I havent been on the forum in a bit and missed it.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> J


 I'm curious about this as well.

Also, can anyone give us an explanation of how OC000459 fares against RU58841? Which is better for regrowing hair?

----------


## Conpecia

> you are wrong - HSC will be out in 3 years MAX.


 After finally taking a look at the Histogen results and pictures, I let out a huge sigh of relief. Cosmetically significant regrowth without adverse sides. Hopefully the growth cycle issue can be resolved by simply receiving more injections. 

I've gotten really negative ever since having to get off finasteride, but I do think we'll be ok eventually (within this decade). The question is how long. If it's 2015-16, I'm cool with that. Anything later and I may have to take more drastic measures.

----------


## neversaynever

> So this "PGD2 blocking" lotion is not happening.
> Histogen looks bad lately with what 2020 said about it offering only one hair cycle.
> Replicel failed.
> Aderans is so far away and their results look like Replicel's...
> 
> What's left? Seriously...


 not long ago 2020 was saying that histogen is without doubt the cure. Now hes saying without doubt, it will give us only one cycle.

Im saying to you, even if its just one cycle (worst case) then be happy! The price should be pretty competitive. Repeat treatments...

But it is also likely that it could be more than one cycle. For all we know, HSC might be getting the cells to trigger anagen phase again, and in doing so, the cells reduce pgd2 levels. it might take a few cycles before pgd2 levels are high enough to put a follicle to sleep, just like the balding process all over again (which is certainly not just one cycle!).

A bigger concern with histogen is when they will release HSC. Again, people have been swearing blind that its 2014...i never saw this as realistic. I think it will be closer to 2016.

Ive yet to see any reason to make me believe in any of the cell treatments. Plus they will be mega expensive. Thats the big one, and the longer shot.

SO our attention comes to PGD2. Since the PGd2 issue was broadcast by Dr Cots, everyone has been obsessed with it. Dr Cots, I believe in the name of money....has said that a pgd2 blocker may work. But if you read about it, PGd2 levels are a double edged sword.

PGd2 levels seem to be high because its an anti-imflamatory, but it also seems that PGd2 is involved in a hairs telogen phase. We need it for both those reasons....

Blocking MIGHT yield some results, but there is NO proof of this so far. And there is no news of any company looking to tackle it for hairloss.

SO, where do we turn to next? PG levels seem to be a key. The final piece, even though we're missing other pieces before it. Allergen...

Allergens testing a PGf2a analog, which studies have shown has more influence on moving a hair from telegon to anagen, than pge2. PGe2 becomes more important in moving the hair through the anagen phase.

Allergen is a big hope, they will show phase 2 results very soon, and have the business and money to get it to market.

What ever people say, histogen are getting great stats from their trials. Which means their HSC must be acting on PG levels, otherwise hair will not grow! Unfortunately we have no idea how HSC is effecting pg levels. Im very curious about this, and very curious to know if they are curious about this...

Gho has potential, but hes expensive and not everyone is a suitable HST patient. All depends how your 2 and 3 hair grafts are spread out.

There are positives, but we are not scientists, so we just have to wait. By the time HSC comes, I'll be an nw5-6, unless i go onto fin. Which ive decided to do, just for a year (but if i get sides im stopping straight away). Just until I know whats happening with allergen, histogen, and the long shots...ari and replicel.

Good luck people.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

How long is a hair cycle?

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> After finally taking a look at the Histogen results and pictures, I let out a huge sigh of relief. Cosmetically significant regrowth without adverse sides. Hopefully the growth cycle issue can be resolved by simply receiving more injections. 
> 
> I've gotten really negative ever since having to get off finasteride, but I do think we'll be ok eventually (within this decade). The question is how long. If it's 2015-16, I'm cool with that. Anything later and I may have to take more drastic measures.


 I will go to gho if HSC/or a good alternative treatment is not out by then.

----------


## Kirby_

> Various PGD2 inhibitors are being researched. Even OC000459 can still happen if a less incompetent compounding service works on it. There are other already known PGD2 inhibitors as well.


 Guess we'll have to keep optimistic that somewhere OC000459 can be synthesised eventually, or at least something that works in an equivalent manner catches on... At least we know that OC000459 isn't the _only_ possible PGD2 inhibiting substance.

----------


## Conpecia

> I will go to gho if HSC/or a good alternative treatment is not out by then.


 Ditto. Although hopefully by then Gho's technique will have made it to the U.S.

----------


## UK_

> After finally taking a look at the Histogen results and pictures, I let out a huge sigh of relief. Cosmetically significant regrowth without adverse sides. Hopefully the growth cycle issue can be resolved by simply receiving more injections. 
> 
> I've gotten really negative ever since having to get off finasteride, but I do think we'll be ok eventually (within this decade). The question is how long. If it's 2015-16, I'm cool with that. Anything later and I may have to take more drastic measures.


 What growth cycle issue are you referring to?

----------


## Conpecia

> What growth cycle issue are you referring to?


 Apparently 2020 believes that Histogen may only last one hair cycle?

----------


## JDW

> Apparently 2020 believes that Histogen may only last one hair cycle?


 What is this based on?
If HSC is combined with replicel then you could have one treatment reawakening follicles and the other treatment protecting those follicles

----------


## TrueGround

Nobody should take ANYTHING than any ONE person says here too seriously.  2020 is young, emotional (understandable) about hair loss and thus makes claims like, "this WILL grow hair" or "that treatment WON'T last more than 1 hair cycle".  Such definitive claims are not only outlandish, but also detrimental to this community.  It just gets people riled up and forum noobs to fire off high-level questions that have been already been addressed time and time again.    Human physiology is so complex and intricately interdependent that NOBODY knows what treatment will have exactly what level of efficacy and for how long on any particular individual.  Unless you are personally a professional expert committing full-time in a "hair science lab" with ample resources and dedication - your conclusive claims about future hair loss treatments are MEANINGLESS.

We all need to come back down to earth here. Replicel+Histogen could prove to be a full-on cure in combination for some people.  It could also just as well provide one cycle of X

----------


## TrueGround

Continued: X% regrowth.  They may not work in combination at all. Every opinion until further trials are completed and products are brought to market is pure speculation. Let's get real people, use your heads! Be excited companies are dedicating millions of dollars and thousands of man hours to make progress.  In the meantime, come to grips with hair loss best you can. I know I refuse to sit around on my comp for the next 3,5,10+ years frantically looking for an answer - because its not there yet.  Plus I don't want to look back and regret all of that lost time.

Live life men! At least you're not a woman losing hair - and if you are, you've got to have more balls than any guy here to accept this situation for what it is!

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Apparently 2020 believes that Histogen may only last one hair cycle?


 Even if it does, that is 5 years worth of hair.

Just top up.

Dont understand the big hoo ha here.

----------


## gutted

> Nobody should take ANYTHING than any ONE person says here too seriously.  2020 is young, emotional (understandable) about hair loss and thus makes claims like, "this WILL grow hair" or "that treatment WON'T last more than 1 hair cycle".  Such definitive claims are not only outlandish, but also detrimental to this community.  It just gets people riled up and forum noobs to fire off high-level questions that have been already been addressed time and time again.    Human physiology is so complex and intricately interdependent that NOBODY knows what treatment will have exactly what level of efficacy and for how long on any particular individual.  Unless you are personally a professional expert committing full-time in a "hair science lab" with ample resources and dedication - your conclusive claims about future hair loss treatments are MEANINGLESS.
> 
> We all need to come back down to earth here. Replicel+Histogen could prove to be a full-on cure in combination for some people.  It could also just as well provide one cycle of X


 i second that.

----------


## lilpauly

> i second that.


 then kiss your hair goodbye!

----------


## lilpauly

oc000459 has alot of science behind it!

----------


## UK_

> Apparently 2020 believes that Histogen may only last one hair cycle?


 After they did the first follow-up for Phase I, people on here were saying it wouldnt last more than 3 months, they were doing all sorts of cost calculations, multiplying how many lifetime treatments one would need, concluding that you'd have to be a millionaire to even entertain the idea of engaging in the treatment.  

Low & behold 2 years on the hair kept growing, we've even seen data that shows increased dosage results in better growth, what more do people need to stfu?

----------


## 2020

the official study didn't extend to 2 years. They said "the hair APPEARED to persist" and that's that.... yes one anagen phase lasts 2-3 years so it will be a while until it falls out again.

I hope my theory isn't true though...

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> the official study didn't extend to 2 years. They said "the hair APPEARED to persist" and that's that.... yes one anagen phase lasts 2-3 years so it will be a while until it falls out again.
> 
> I hope my theory isn't true though...


 Even if it is , 3 years is a long time

----------


## gutted

> then kiss your hair goodbye!


 
loooool why?

i didnt say it wont work.

----------


## 2020

> Even if it is , 3 years is a long time


 and you're willing to get hundreds of injections every 2-3 years? What happens when you become NW6? You won't be able to keep up with the injections.
After one cycle your hair will literally go back to being really tiny thus creating bald spots again

----------


## TrueGround

> then kiss your hair goodbye!


 
I don't think either of us were talking about dropping any current treatment a particular individual might be utilizing.  Just trying to inject a little sanity into the thread.





> and you're willing to get hundreds of injections every 2-3 years? What happens when you become NW6? You won't be able to keep up with the injections.
> After one cycle your hair will literally go back to being really tiny thus creating bald spots again


 Are you saying that as much time you spend on the forums, you wouldn't be willing to commit to that?  I'm sure you want to kiss this kind of lifestyle goodbye, no?  Personally, I'd take a punch to the face AND hundreds of injections every 2-3 years to have a full head of hair indefinitely - assuming no facial dis-figuration  :Big Grin:

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> and you're willing to get hundreds of injections every 2-3 years? What happens when you become NW6? You won't be able to keep up with the injections.
> After one cycle your hair will literally go back to being really tiny thus creating bald spots again


 Yes but you are not seeing the bigger picture.

1) in 3 years of good hair, you can get a wife/GF , excel in your career (with full confidence) so it is not much of an issue.

3 years in a young persons life is a long time.

Whereas right now, we are all here bitching and not focusing on the things that matter.

2) After a while, you MAY decide to stop undergoing this treatment. Say appearance becomes less of an issue for you after a certain age.

3) It is likely this (HSC) will be improved over time.

4) Other treatments will come onto the market, Gho's HST (more evidence will surface), aderans etc.

5) there are no sides from HSC.

----------


## Hairismylife

Actually I dunno why 2020 keeps criticizing HSC these days, I think if 2020 can point out the problems, Histogen's scientist wouldn't have neglected it as we, compared with them, are just layman. 
Btw, in your opinion 2020, which treatment should have the highest potential? Aderans? Allergen?

p.s. I am a Hong Kong-er, plz forgive my poor Englsih :Smile:

----------


## Kiwi

> and you're willing to get hundreds of injections every 2-3 years? What happens when you become NW6? You won't be able to keep up with the injections.
> After one cycle your hair will literally go back to being really tiny thus creating bald spots again


 I'm with the other dude. I'll take the hundreds of injections AND the punch in the face  :Smile:

----------


## gmonasco

> and you're willing to get hundreds of injections every 2-3 years?


 Hell, yeah.  And the anagen phase for follicles can last anywhere from 2 to 6 years, so it might be less often.




> What happens when you become NW6? You won't be able to keep up with the injections.


 Even if that we're true, it would still be better to have something that worked up until that point.

----------


## 2020

> Hell, yeah.  And the anagen phase for follicles can last anywhere from 2 to 6 years, so it might be less often.


 yeah I can't believe you would be that excited with those results... what's the point of regrowing them if they would fall out in hundreds and thousands every week/month?

If HSC doesn't TRULY reverse follicle "aging" then this treatment is useless....




> Even if that we're true, it would still be better to have something that worked up until that point.


 why wouldn't that be true? Most of us are destined to be NW6-7.

----------


## UK_

> yeah I can't believe you would be that excited with those results... what's the point of regrowing them if they would fall out in hundreds and thousands every week/month?
> 
> If HSC doesn't TRULY reverse follicle "aging" then this treatment is useless....
> 
> 
> 
> why wouldn't that be true? Most of us are destined to be NW6-7.


 Why are you so bitter about Histogen?  Jeez lay off them will you.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Why are you so bitter about Histogen?  Jeez lay off them will you.


 I bet if it came out, 2020 will still get HSC done like a hypocrit.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> yeah I can't believe you would be that excited with those results... what's the point of regrowing them if they would fall out in hundreds and thousands every week/month?
> 
> If HSC doesn't TRULY reverse follicle "aging" then this treatment is useless....


 Stop saying shit, and then pass it on as fact. You will end up freaking people out over bullshit.

Truth is, you dont know.  Are you one of the scientists working on HSC? *No*. And chances are they are more clever then you. I don't see you going out creating a hairloss product which works.

They are in phase 2 - still tweaking it.

Lay off them.


Sick of reading this bullshit.

----------


## Kiwi

> Stop saying shit, and then pass it on as fact. You will end up freaking people out over bullshit.
> 
> Truth is, you dont know.  Are you one of the scientists working on HSC? *No*. And chances are they are more clever then you. I don't see you going out creating a hairloss product which works.
> 
> They are in phase 2 - still tweaking it.
> 
> Lay off them.
> 
> 
> Sick of reading this bullshit.


 Lol - 2020 spends too much time here posting stuff here to be a scientist.

Of course I bet as soon as Histogen launches 2020 will be there with bells on.

I just don't understand why 2020 posts so many declaritives when it's so obvious that none really knows :P

----------


## MackJames

> Lol - 2020 spends too much time here posting stuff here to be a scientist.
> 
> Of course I bet as soon as Histogen launches 2020 will be there with bells on.
> 
> I just don't understand why 2020 posts so many declaritives when it's so obvious that none really knows :P


 Funny thing about 2020.  Not long ago 2020 posted on another topic about how the thread starter was being overly obsessive about his hair loss and recommended to the poster that he take his meds and live life or in his words "forget about". 

When I mentioned to him the large number of posts he accrued in a short amount of time and how that indicated to me that he was just as obsessed as the posted and shouldn't be hypocritical; he immediately denied the charge and claimed he checks the boards infrequently,five minutes a day max.  

It's pretty apparent that is pure bunk.  The guy posts frquently on several topics and admits to dedicating ample amounts of his free time off board researching hair loss cures.

----------


## clandestine

What ever happened to OC000459?

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## rdawg

> What ever happened to OC000459?


 In that other hair loss forum the guys that tested it said it must not be strong enough or whatever.

it's too grey market right now IMO, alot of them are saying they need a version that inhibits much more strongly the PGD2 .

We need an actual company researching and developing a PGD2 product.

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## 2020

as I remember there was a group buy for OC0459 and it appeared to be legit. Not sure if anyone bought any.

Cotsarelis is in talk with some companies so I'm sure some product will be here soon. This is not going anywhere.

http://www.pgd2blockers.com/

???

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## cleverusername

There's a group buy going on at hlh, I might buy some as well as some pills to make a topical pge2. If I do, I'll keep you all updated. BTW 2020, how is TB4?

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## 2020

> BTW 2020, how is TB4?


 it's only been three days. Nothing to report as of yet

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## Dazza

Any news concerning this product? 2020 any updates?

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## Troy

Check Boldy´s posts on HLH regarding this product...

The manufacturer producing this should post a webshop any day now (as OC000459 has been successfully produced), from wich people will be able to purchase...I think the price will be $300/g

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## KeepHoping

Even if you were to buy this and it came in powder form how would you go by making it into a topical?

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## Troy

I think OC is soluble in Ethanol and DMSO...

I was thinking about making a vehicle like 70% (ethanol) / 30% (pg)

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## BaldinLikeBaldwin

thanks to the efforts of Gangsterboy OC000459 is available now at 99.51% purity

$320/gram for the first 50 grams

concentration between 0.1-1% recommended for the topical solution

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## Kirby_

How long would a gram last, theoretically? (I guess that's based on concentration.)

Pretty excited about this BTW. I'm pessimistic about new treatments hitting local pharmacies any time soon, but off-market stuff like this _could_ turn out to be a magic bullet.

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## Troy

In the patents they stated concentration anywhere between 0.1% and 1%.

So, if we use 1ml per day:

1% = 100 days

0.1% = 1000 days

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## Kiwi

> How long would a gram last, theoretically? (I guess that's based on concentration.)
> 
> Pretty excited about this BTW. I'm pessimistic about new treatments hitting local pharmacies any time soon, but off-market stuff like this _could_ turn out to be a magic bullet.


 Right, so Histogen, with their 10s of millions is not going to hit the market but this home grown concoction is going to take off and give us out hair back. Genius. 

At least Histogen have shown some before and after pics. Can anybody show us some pics???

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## doinmyheadin



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## BaldinLikeBaldwin

> Right, so Histogen, with their 10s of millions is not going to hit the market but this home grown concoction is going to take off and give us out hair back. Genius. 
> 
> At least Histogen have shown some before and after pics. Can anybody show us some pics???


 hey I dont see you helping the cause at all

what's the point of just complaining and not doing anything

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## Kirby_

> Right, so Histogen, with their 10s of millions is not going to hit the market but this home grown concoction is going to take off and give us out hair back. Genius. 
> 
> At least Histogen have shown some before and after pics. Can anybody show us some pics???


 Look mate, whatever you think of using experimental treatments, the guys queueing up to give OC a shot are pioneers, testing out what might turn out to be a very effective treatment. It's comparable to using Proscar off-label in the early '90s - without MPB sufferers willing to explore new avenues, we'd all be far worse off.

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## Kiwi

> hey I dont see you helping the cause at all
> 
> what's the point of just complaining and not doing anything


 I have done something. I've had two "industry standard" HTs and I've reported back everything with photos. Acell did nothing. May have even killed the grafts waiting for transplantation. I don't know and HT docs can't or won't tell.

I've tried ketakonozil, PRP, minoxidil and propecia and I got side effects so I'm ****ed.

I provide all data back to help people make up their minds.

Very seriously. If this stuff works we need pics - I want it to work but I've seen these threads come and go for over 5 years and anmount to no cosmetic proof.

I hope this works  :Smile:

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Look mate, whatever you think of using experimental treatments, the guys queueing up to give OC a shot are pioneers, testing out what might turn out to be a very effective treatment. It's comparable to using Proscar off-label in the early '90s - without MPB sufferers willing to explore new avenues, we'd all be far worse off.


 Well proscar is finasteride, hardly a new treatment is it?...unless of course this was before propecia came out.

TBH I think people like you will never be happy, for the first time in MPB history, scientists have grown cosmetically significant hair on a human scalp. Have faith in histogen.

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## rdawg

> Well proscar is finasteride, hardly a new treatment is it?...unless of course this was before propecia came out.
> 
> TBH I think people like you will never be happy, for the first time in MPB history, scientists have grown cosmetically significant hair on a human scalp. Have faith in histogen.


 Ur mixing up his point a bit on proscar. Proscar came out in 92 and was meant for prostate problems, didnt really have a purpose for hair(although I believe scientists had an idea that it could help).

Propecia launched in 97 specifically for hair, so technically going on proscar in the early 90's was a risk because they didnt know what it fully could do or what could happen while on it for hair.

I agree with ur histogen comment though, we'll see where they are in the next update in october.

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## BaldinLikeBaldwin

> I have done something. I've had two "industry standard" HTs and I've reported back everything with photos. Acell did nothing. May have even killed the grafts waiting for transplantation. I don't know and HT docs can't or won't tell.
> 
> I've tried ketakonozil, PRP, minoxidil and propecia and I got side effects so I'm ****ed.
> 
> I provide all data back to help people make up their minds.
> 
> Very seriously. If this stuff works we need pics - I want it to work but I've seen these threads come and go for over 5 years and anmount to no cosmetic proof.
> 
> I hope this works


 all right fair enough

of course we would all like for treatments such as Histogen to be effective and on the market as soon as possible but realistically with the treatments being developed today it's unlikely any of them will be available before 2015

so I'm very appreciative of guys who do stuff like get companies to manufacture OC00459 and try it on themselves...if only more people in the hair loss community get involved it won't be long before we can have good  evaluations of the effectiveness of RU, OC00459, CB, RUM, PS1 et cet.

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## Kirby_

The main issue with Histogen versus PGD2 blockers (e.g. OC00459) is that the former isn't guaranteed to ever become a commercialised product... It may fail the long FDA process, might turn out to be a big investment scheme to create saleable patents, who knows. There's a lot of barriers to its arrival on the market more than just time. If only if it was a matter of sitting back and waiting! However, PGD2 blockers, specifically GPR44 antagonists, inevitably _will_ be available as purchasable medications before too long. We just have to hope that the pharma companies currently developing GPR44 antagonists quickly realise the potential goldmine they're sitting on.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> The main issue with Histogen versus PGD2 blockers (e.g. OC00459) is that the former isn't guaranteed to ever become a commercialised product... It may fail the long FDA process, might turn out to be a big investment scheme to create saleable patents, who knows. There's a lot of barriers to its arrival on the market more than just time. If only if it was a matter of sitting back and waiting! However, PGD2 blockers, specifically GPR44 antagonists, inevitably _will_ be available as purchasable medications before too long. We just have to hope that the pharma companies currently developing GPR44 antagonists quickly realise the potential goldmine they're sitting on.


 
You are too pessimistic.

Histogen for me showed their intent when they were in legal trouble with skinmedica but still fought though.

If they were so flimsy they would have given up then, but they have just got stronger and stronger.

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## gutted

dont expect much from those testing out the OC000459, unless its controlled.
They are on a multitude of other things which are almost garauteed to blur its effects, hence why we NEED pharama companies to scientifically test this out for us in a controlled enviroment.

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## Kirby_

I totally agree that we need Pharma corporations carrying out proper tests in a controlled manner, absolutely. I think that is inevitable seeing as they can't be blind to the huge profit potential.

As for my views on Histogen, I WANT to be proven wrong in my pessimism!  :Smile:

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## sausage

If this does work, how much will it cost and how often would you have to apply the lotion?

Sorry, these questions are probably impossible to guess/know.

If in 2-3 years time I can rub some lotion into my round bald head that looks like an effing orange and a full head of hair comes shooting out the next day that would of course be frigging amazing. Life changing, a game changer, I'd be a different person.

But is it really possible.

A new cure is needed within 4 years as my young life will be over in 8 years. I at least want some young years of my life to be happy and full of hair.

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## Travbedaman

> A new cure is needed within 4 years as my young life will be over in 8 years. I at least want some young years of my life to be happy and full of hair.


 So in 8 years how old will you be when you begin your "old" life?

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## Kirby_

So, what's the news with OC000459? Are people still using it as an experimental topical, and if so, any noticeable results yet

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## clarence

> So, what's the news with OC000459? Are people still using it as an experimental topical, and if so, any noticeable results yet


 Hairlosshelp forums. That seems to be the main lair of those who are making research on OC. Here we only have speculation

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## jman91

bump 10 charrrrrrr

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## Kirby_

Is this experiment officially dead?

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## clandestine

Pretty well, yes.

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## clarence

> Pretty well, yes.


 More like waiting for CRTH2 and PDGE2 results, whatever these two terms mean... I don't know what they mean, but the reading comprehension is there, in my head!

babarbea (he's a french guy who once had some transplant done in his hairline and then lost a lot, currently not using any Fin or Minox), seems to at least have his "balding circle" reduced to some extent, already with currently available stuff, and he seems pretty knowledgeable about stuff which has just been released and stuff which is just about to be released...

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## BaldJerry

I see mpbtreatments is selling this stuff now.  Anyone having any results?

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