# Men's Hair Loss > Introduce Yourself & Share Your Story >  What the hell!?

## WillyFooFoo

Took some pictures of my vertex, and some scared the shit out of me. 

Why does it look like this!? Used hair spray yesterday and did not wash of today..

So stressed out right now..

Seriously thinking about starting propecia.. Should i start propecia?

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## lacazette

Some people have weird implantations in vertex, so it could be normal.

But yes it could be crown thinning, go to see a dermatologist, he will confirm/infirm that

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## WillyFooFoo

I've been to two hair transplant surgeons to have an examination, none of them mentioned the crown. Did also ask two hair dressers, both said that there were no thinning in the crown.

When examined with a micro camera, surgeon nr 2 said i've got up too 10% miniaturization over the scalp. 

But the way my crown looks by this photo makes me wonder, even if i didn't wash my hair properly this day.

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## Artista

*How old are you WillyFooFoo ?*
How YOUNG are you?

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## WillyFooFoo

I'm 30 years old.

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## Artista

*Thank you Willy'* .I felt that you were so much younger than 30.
The good thing is that *you STILL ARE a young man!*
Those photos you had provided* does show a very DECENT looking head of hair bro!!*
Being honest with you

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## WillyFooFoo

Thank you for replying Artista, that means alot to me.

Do you think theres some thinning in the vertex or is it like "lacazette" wrote about that some have wierd implantations? I mean, two doctors and two hair dressers (one of them male and totally bald) said that i didn't had to worry about my crown.

But like i said, when i look at these pictures i get so scared!

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## WillyFooFoo

Snapped this pics after showering (hair dry, no products) in quite bright light.

http://www.ladda-upp.com/bilder/85321/vertex

http://www.ladda-upp.com/bilder/85322/vertex-2


What do you guys think? Need some comments, please

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## Jedgreen

New pics looks even better than the others. No visible problem to me. But you took the pics with a flash light. Not the best way to do it as it makes some hair shine more than others and it makes hard shadows that can be taken for hair.
On the first pictures on this thread I could "maybe" see a small thinning. But nothing wrong for a 30 yo dude.
Seriously, if you've gone to several specialists and none of them told you there was a problem, then you don't have to worry for now. BUT let's keep an eye on it and if during the next year you really feel something is wrong, go see a dermatologist. In fact you did not mention if you already saw a dermato?
Transplant surgeons and hair dressers can give you an opinion, but I would go see a dermato now. To be sure.

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## Artista

*Will' hello again!*
I have little time to respond (must run off to my regular job, unfortunately)

I feel that you get so 'scared' when looking at your hair because it is mostly due to your over-emotions.
Maybe you should step back and try looking at it in a completely commonsense sort of way.

*Those pics of your hair looks GOOD* ,,I dont see a real issue with your hair bro--*truthfully speaking!*
*Calm down, STRESS could and will cause hair loss.* History shows that as a fact.  I experienced it!!
  So if you continue to  extremely and EMOTIONALLY  focus on your hair , then *STRESS will cause a problem for you.*
Again,your hair is NOT BAD .... *please consider this OK?  y*our friend Artista!!! 
Tomorrow morning I will continue our discussion ..I promise

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## jamesst11

I mean this in the nicest way possible - I think you may need a therapist brother.  No shame in that, I see one myself.  What you are seeing is your hair parted.  10% miniaturization is not indicative of MPB.

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## WillyFooFoo

Thank you Artista. You are a good person.

I know stress isnt good, i try not to stress about it.

My concern is that after all my appointments with hair surgeons and other people who tells me that i have good hair in the vertex and still snaps pics like these makes me confused.

I really don't know if i have Male Pappern Baldness because my hairline is "matured" just like my fathers and a uncle (almost exactly like my father, he has some more recession but hes 63 y/o). I was estimated as a NW 2 by Dr.Bisanga in Bryssels, he did not recommend me to on propecia.

I've always had "fine" straight thinner hair.  

Again, thank you Artista. Feels good to have this conversation with you. 

All the best!

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## Becken

Hair Looks fine... Looks just like Parting of the hair... natural to se scalp then... in the parting or crown swirl that is... If hair looks thin outside the swirl or when the hairs lay in the same direction then you could worry...

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## WillyFooFoo

> I mean this in the nicest way possible - I think you may need a therapist brother.  No shame in that, I see one myself.  What you are seeing is your hair parted.  10% miniaturization is not indicative of MPB.


 Thank you for your answer james.

Non taken!
I know that my first action should be seeking therapy, and I have my first appointment in august. 

I feel kind of stupid posting on this forum when there are people with more problem than me and I apoligize if i ever offend someone, I really don't want to do that. 

I'ts just that until my appointment I need to vent my thoughts.

I am ever so greatful for everyone who takes their spare time to comment on my situation.

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## WillyFooFoo

> New pics looks even better than the others. No visible problem to me. But you took the pics with a flash light. Not the best way to do it as it makes some hair shine more than others and it makes hard shadows that can be taken for hair.
> On the first pictures on this thread I could "maybe" see a small thinning. But nothing wrong for a 30 yo dude.
> Seriously, if you've gone to several specialists and none of them told you there was a problem, then you don't have to worry for now. BUT let's keep an eye on it and if during the next year you really feel something is wrong, go see a dermatologist. In fact you did not mention if you already saw a dermato?
> Transplant surgeons and hair dressers can give you an opinion, but I would go see a dermato now. To be sure.


 No, I have not been to an dermatologist. We have a different system in sweden were you have to get an referral from my regular doctor but they don't see mpb as enough of an issue to see me.

What could a dermatologist see that the others have not? Surgeon nr2 checked my scalp with an micro camera, do dermatologist do something different?

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## Jedgreen

> What could a dermatologist see that the others have not? Surgeon nr2 checked my scalp with an micro camera, do dermatologist do something different?


 A dermato is a doctor specialized in skin,  hair and mucous membranes and to me, (someone will correct me if i'm wrong) a transplant surgeon is someone who maybe don't have all the scientific background required to give a real diagnostic of the state of the scalp, and is someone who, at the end of the day, wants to sell you hair transplant... I guess you've seen good transplant surgeons that did not scare you to make you want to do an operation, so that's cool. But to have a real, not biased diagnostic, a dermato would be good. But really you're pictures are all right. Just eat healthy, don't smoke, take care of your hair with sulfate-free shampoos and take the same pictures in 6 months if you feel something is wrong.

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## jamesst11

Hey man,
   Don't feel stupid posting here at all! It's a hair loss forum and if you believe you have hair loss it's your right. I know it sucks.  To have something happening to you that is beyond your control... When I looked at pics of my hair wet and combed back a couple days ago I literally almost cried.  hang in there man.

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## Jedgreen

Oh and sorry if my english is not always perfect. And I'm not an expert in surgeons or dermato either, just trying to give my opinion like I'd do to a friend. There are people more qualified than me around here to give good advices. (but maybe also people who think they are qualified.)

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## WillyFooFoo

> A dermato is a doctor specialized in skin,  hair and mucous membranes and to me, (someone will correct me if i'm wrong) a transplant surgeon is someone who maybe don't have all the scientific background required to give a real diagnostic of the state of the scalp, and is someone who, at the end of the day, wants to sell you hair transplant... I guess you've seen good transplant surgeons that did not scare you to make you want to do an operation, so that's cool. But to have a real, not biased diagnostic, a dermato would be good. But really you're pictures are all right. Just eat healthy, don't smoke, take care of your hair with sulfate-free shampoos and take the same pictures in 6 months if you feel something is wrong.


 Thank you for your answer.

I get what you mean, with the transplant surgeons want to sell their services. I went to a surgeon who is a member of the American Hair Loss Association and he got a good reputaion on forums.

I probably got BDD aswell, feel the need to check my scalp all the time.. 

I'm thinking about starting propecia treatment as a preventive caution but it feels kind of stupid to start with such a medication when i accually don't know if I have mpb.

Thoughts?

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## Artista

*Will'* 
*I am GLAD that you are still connected to this Forum my friend!*
Please keep this in mind, you *can not allow emotions* *to get the better of you.*
You are getting good advice here.

*Please do NOT*, later on, 
second-guess the advice given to you.
Again, *your head of hair is GOOD.*
At your age of 30 it is very good-lucky you! 
*Hang in there- stay connected.  Enjoy LIFE bro.*.

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## Illusion

I wouldn't worry about it, seems like natural parting of the hair. By the way, you still got a pretty thick head of hair for someone that is 30 y/o so I'd be happy if I were you  :Wink:

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## tedwuji

> Snapped this pics after showering (hair dry, no products) in quite bright light.
> 
> http://www.ladda-upp.com/bilder/85321/vertex
> 
> http://www.ladda-upp.com/bilder/85322/vertex-2
> 
> 
> What do you guys think? Need some comments, please


 Obviously you do not have significant loss.

however, microcameras don't lie and 10% minaturization is balding in early stages (and yes unlikely to be noted by a hairdresser).

If you dont want 10% to turn into 15 and then 20% etc. get on Finasteride after consulting with a medical doctor. preferably one certified by the IAHRS.

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## tedwuji

> Thank you for your answer.
> 
> I get what you mean, with the transplant surgeons want to sell their services. I went to a surgeon who is a member of the American Hair Loss Association and he got a good reputaion on forums.
> 
> I probably got BDD aswell, feel the need to check my scalp all the time.. 
> 
> I'm thinking about starting propecia treatment as a preventive caution but it feels kind of stupid to start with such a medication when i accually don't know if I have mpb.
> 
> Thoughts?


 You need to get your scalp mapped for minaturization as well as have a hair bulk analysis completed using a special tool ISHRS/IAHRS surgeons typically employ when assessing the progression of MPB.

10% after age 30 probably is early stage progression of MPB. This is far from an unlikely scenario for a caucasian male of your age, statistically speaking.

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## WillyFooFoo

> Obviously you do not have significant loss.
> 
> however, microcameras don't lie and 10% minaturization is balding in early stages (and yes unlikely to be noted by a hairdresser).
> 
> If you dont want 10% to turn into 15 and then 20% etc. get on Finasteride after consulting with a medical doctor. preferably one certified by the IAHRS.


 I accually did an analysis with a surgeon certified by the IAHRS, Dr Bisanga in Brussels. He was the one saying i've got >10% minituarization and he said i didn't need finasteride. If I wanted a transplant (for my temples) he recommended minoxidil to strengthen the rest of the scalp to prevent shock loss.

Dr. Rassman (baldingblog.com) stated that everyone can have some degree of miniaturization, even up to 20% and not "suffer" from mpb.

Maybe I'm in denail? My problem is that I really don't know if i have mpb..

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## Artista

*Hi Willy'* 
Your last words*-"Maybe I'm in denial? My problem is that I really don't know if i have mpb.. "*

My friend, there is no reason for you to be in any type of denial over this.
_Of course, you do not KNOW_ if you will ever experience minor or major MPB at this point but, 
*It is NOT a PROBLEM for you Willy'  Do not ALLOW it to be.*
*Live your life as best as you can. Stay health and avoid stress.*

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## tedwuji

> I accually did an analysis with a surgeon certified by the IAHRS, Dr Bisanga in Brussels. He was the one saying i've got >10% minituarization and he said i didn't need finasteride. If I wanted a transplant (for my temples) he recommended minoxidil to strengthen the rest of the scalp to prevent shock loss.
> 
> Dr. Rassman (baldingblog.com) stated that everyone can have some degree of miniaturization, even up to 20% and not "suffer" from mpb.
> 
> Maybe I'm in denail? My problem is that I really don't know if i have mpb..


 i am familiar with Rassman (ive met him in LA and had a few consults with both him & Dr Pak) and his posts on minaturization. Its possible you are not balding, i suppose.

What does your frontal area look like? Are you receding at all? frontal hair photos would help me form a more accurate opinion as to what is going on.

a logical option here would be to get your hair mapped for minaturization and get a  bulk analysis by a tool like Rassman's HairCheck every 6-12 months. If that 10% jumps to 12 or 15% get on Finasteride immediately.

If you are balding and are at a mere 10% loss post age30 then its safe to assume your loss is not very aggressive and therefore slow moving. Finasteride would likely reverse some and halt progression fully for some time, statisticaly speaking.

put simply; monitor your hair for changes. if theres is a change, get an Rx.

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## WillyFooFoo

> *Hi Willy'* 
> Your last words*-"Maybe I'm in denial? My problem is that I really don't know if i have mpb.. "*
> 
> My friend, there is no reason for you to be in any type of denial over this.
> _Of course, you do not KNOW_ if you will ever experience minor or major MPB at this point but, 
> *It is NOT a PROBLEM for you Willy'  Do not ALLOW it to be.*
> *Live your life as best as you can. Stay health and avoid stress.*


 Thank you Artista.

I know what you mean, but at this point it's really getting to me.. The whole hair loss thing, in my mind, if i got mpb, i'll be noticable thinning within some years and i can't cope with that right now  :Frown:

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## WillyFooFoo

> i am familiar with Rassman (ive met him in LA and had a few consults with both him & Dr Pak) and his posts on minaturization. Its possible you are not balding, i suppose.
> 
> What does your frontal area look like? Are you receding at all? frontal hair photos would help me form a more accurate opinion as to what is going on.
> 
> a logical option here would be to get your hair mapped for minaturization and get a  bulk analysis by a tool like Rassman's HairCheck every 6-12 months. If that 10% jumps to 12 or 15% get on Finasteride immediately.
> 
> If you are balding and are at a mere 10% loss post age30 then its safe to assume your loss is not very aggressive and therefore slow moving. Finasteride would likely reverse some and halt progression fully for some time, statisticaly speaking.
> 
> put simply; monitor your hair for changes. if theres is a change, get an Rx.


 First of all, thank you for taking your time and answering in my case!

Starten a thread with pics of my front some weeks ago, you can find it here: https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/thread...ded?highlight=

Theres also a "mapping" on hair loss in my family.

Right now, I'm kind of sure on getting on propecia. It's just some things making Me question to start (not sides). 
I've read that some people have expirenced that getting on finasteride destroyed their hair, that they experienced shedding that didn't regrow.. Scary thoughts!

And the whole debate of fin and pregnancy, trying to conceive with my girlfriend right now :/ (the whole conceiving thing is " :Smile: " of course)

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## tedwuji

> First of all, thank you for taking your time and answering in my case!
> 
> Starten a thread with pics of my front some weeks ago, you can find it here: https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/thread...ded?highlight=
> 
> Theres also a "mapping" on hair loss in my family.
> 
> Right now, I'm kind of sure on getting on propecia. It's just some things making Me question to start (not sides). 
> I've read that some people have expirenced that getting on finasteride destroyed their hair, that they experienced shedding that didn't regrow.. Scary thoughts!
> 
> And the whole debate of fin and pregnancy, trying to conceive with my girlfriend right now :/ (the whole conceiving thing is "" of course)


 Logically, it would be pertinent to first find out for certain if you are balding or not and only then consider an Rx used for balding. I mean, If in fact not balding why use a drug to treat balding? Especially, if you personally have concerns about fathering a child on said Rx. 

I reviewed your frontal hairline photos and it very well could be a naturally high and mature hairline as opposed to genetic balding. I cannot say one way or the other in your case and i am pretty good at spotting it. 

I would again suggest close monitoring of minaturization progression.

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## WillyFooFoo

> Logically, it would be pertinent to first find out for certain if you are balding or not and only then consider an Rx used for balding. I mean, If in fact not balding why use a drug to treat balding? Especially, if you personally have concerns about fathering a child on said Rx. 
> 
> I reviewed your frontal hairline photos and it very well could be a naturally high and mature hairline as opposed to genetic balding. I cannot say one way or the other in your case and i am pretty good at spotting it. 
> 
> I would again suggest close monitoring of minaturization progression.


 This is what i find so hard.

If i start the medication now, and even if I'm not balding i will never be able to stop because if i do and i am balding... Yeah, you see my dilemma.

Another question; Is it favorable to maybe take propecia once or twice a week? Or maybe three times?
Just to be "safe" of further loss?

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## tedwuji

> This is what i find so hard.
> 
> If i start the medication now, and even if I'm not balding i will never be able to stop because if i do and i am balding... Yeah, you see my dilemma.
> 
> Another question; Is it favorable to maybe take propecia once or twice a week? Or maybe three times?
> Just to be "safe" of further loss?


 the FDA trials suggested 1mg/per day. i have heard anectdotal reports its still reasonably effective at lower doses, but you should consult with a physician.

I advise you to find out if you are in fact balding first, then and only then consider a prescription drug to prevent balding. the frequent visits for microscopic assesment are really your most objective and sure-fire way to catch changes early. I must pose the question if you would really want to start a lifetime drug for a condition you dont even know you have and then add on the fact you have personal concerns anout fathering a child on the drug. Do the cons outweight the pros for a blind start? its something you must consider, i suppose.

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## WillyFooFoo

> the FDA trials suggested 1mg/per day. i have heard anectdotal reports its still reasonably effective at lower doses, but you should consult with a physician.
> 
> I advise you to find out if you are in fact balding first, then and only then consider a prescription drug to prevent balding. the frequent visits for microscopic assesment are really your most objective and sure-fire way to catch changes early. I must pose the question if you would really want to start a lifetime drug for a condition you dont even know you have and then add on the fact you have personal concerns anout fathering a child on the drug. Do the cons outweight the pros for a blind start? its something you must consider, i suppose.


 Yeah, i know but i thought if i "only" have 10% miniaturization maybe i can get away with 2-3 mg/week.. Wish full thinking i guess.

I get scared sometimes when i look at my scalp, especially when my hair is greasy.. As I said, i've always had "fine" hair. Then I can read on the internet that greasy hair may appear thinner. 

This is a damn jungle.. 

Thanks again tedwuji, i'll maybe have some more questions later on. Hope you stick with me  :Smile:

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## tedwuji

> Yeah, i know but i thought if i "only" have 10% miniaturization maybe i can get away with 2-3 mg/week.. Wish full thinking i guess.
> 
> I get scared sometimes when i look at my scalp, especially when my hair is greasy.. As I said, i've always had "fine" hair. Then I can read on the internet that greasy hair may appear thinner. 
> 
> This is a damn jungle.. 
> 
> Thanks again tedwuji, i'll maybe have some more questions later on. Hope you stick with me


 No problem, glad to help.

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