# Hair Transplants > Hair Transplant: Start Your Own Topic >  Bosley may have been a mistake.

## Jojo1703

My fiancé had had two transplants by Bosley over ten years ago and has started having thinning is his crown. We thought it would be a great idea to go back since he had seemed happy with the results he had previously achieved. 

I feel now after him having the third procedure that we may have made a mistake. There were some actions that cause me concern and I wonder if this isn't par for the course with them. 

He had passed out from loss of blood, they didn't bother to inform me of this. No one called me when it happened and not when I came into the room for post op maintenance information. He was scared and had asked to see me which was ignored. We were forced to pay 600$ for a post op care kit that contains Walmart brand antibiotic ointment, shampoo, a morning and night spray, 10 pain Meds and a bottle of 16 Advil. 

During the last parts of his procedure, I over heard the techs complaining about the last two hundred graphs that needed to be done and arguing about not wanting to do them while finally deciding to each do 100. It didn't increase my confidence in the situation. 

More and more I understand why I was not allowed to be in the room with him, I feel like there may have been some shady actions they didn't want seen. 

I understand that sometimes people cannot handle blood and medical procedures, that's not me. I was allowed to observe my fathers brain surgery which is a much more complex and dangerous procedure. I had multiple times informed them of my desire to stay and observe and they multiple times said Doctor preference prohibits this. I feel I understand why. 

When his numbing agent wore off and he still had hours to go, no more was given until he was in so much pain he needed a break and finally they re numbed him. 

I asked multiple times which pre op Meds were given. A a shot and something dissolved under his tongue, I've still not been told. 
Looking at the sutures, I fear compared to his previous procedures, this may scar immensely. 

I wish we had found these threads and opted for a private doctor. I'm at a loss on what actions we should take now and he is feeling fear about the future of the surgery and his graphs.

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## Artista

*Hello  Jojo1703*... How old is your fiance now?

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## Jojo1703

He is 34.

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## Artista

*OK thanks!* I will respond tomorrow (off to work now-sorry).
* Others will respond today though, have a good day!*

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## Jojo1703

He is 34

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## J_B_Davis

While the experience did not seem great, dont panic. Its still very possible that the results will end up just fine. Bosley is not known for the highest quality hair transplants but if you listen to Spencer Kobrens show, which you can find on this site, he does say that they have come a long way, which means a lot. They probably  do regular old fashioned strip transplants, but if the grafts are dissected using microscopes and the doctor and techs know what they are doing, there is a good chance that he will be fine.

It is terrible to hear the way you and your fiancé were treated and that you were charged so much for the aftercare kit, but these big companies spend a lot of money on advertising and overhead so it is not surpassing that you would be paying more for the surgery and for everything that should go along with it.

I hope everything works out.

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## Jojo1703

Thank you!

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## Jojo1703

One of our biggest fears is that the technicians did a subpar Job because they were tired and in a hurry to finish. I don't know how to tell at this point, and they tell us it'll take 8 months for any growth to show. 

They were not upfront with a lot of the questions I asked before we even booked the procedure. Our wedding is in two months and both of us are feeling much anxiety and an extreme feeling of hopelessness. 

I wish I would have known better and did more research. We assumed since he had done it before it would be ok again. We were so wrong. 

I think we're just trying to alleviate some of the anxiety we are feeling and praying everything works out for the best.

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## jamesst11

> My fiancé had had two transplants by Bosley over ten years ago and has started having thinning is his crown. We thought it would be a great idea to go back since he had seemed happy with the results he had previously achieved. 
> 
> I feel now after him having the third procedure that we may have made a mistake. There were some actions that cause me concern and I wonder if this isn't par for the course with them. 
> 
> He had passed out from loss of blood, they didn't bother to inform me of this. No one called me when it happened and not when I came into the room for post op maintenance information. He was scared and had asked to see me which was ignored. We were forced to pay 600$ for a post op care kit that contains Walmart brand antibiotic ointment, shampoo, a morning and night spray, 10 pain Meds and a bottle of 16 Advil. 
> 
> During the last parts of his procedure, I over heard the techs complaining about the last two hundred graphs that needed to be done and arguing about not wanting to do them while finally deciding to each do 100. It didn't increase my confidence in the situation. 
> 
> More and more I understand why I was not allowed to be in the room with him, I feel like there may have been some shady actions they didn't want seen. 
> ...


 
I am sorry to hear this.  I hope everything turns out o.k., and no matter what, remember there is always a solution.  Having said that, I myself am a former victim of Bosley.  I am NOT trying to scare you in any way, but I can say that in my personal opinion, if Bosley was involved with a hair transplant there is a strong chance that there was malpractice or other unethical behavior somewhere in his treatment.  They are like the fast food restaurant in a city of fine authentic cuisine.  They deal in bulk and have lawyers up the butt, so they are not really afraid of anything.  They are designed to lure in potential patients and have very, very unreasonable standards on who is a good candidate for HT surgery.  They performed on me when I had nearly a full head of hair.  The procedure straight up destroyed it.  Every where they touched became like a desert for my natural hair growth.  My native hair just fell out and never grew back.  I say this, because this leads me to the very critical question - how much hair did your husband have when they performed their first surgery on him?? I tell you with utmost certainty, there intention was for a second and third procedure.  Please, do not go back to them and consider consulting with an attorney.  Be very careful from here on out.  Research, research research.

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## Jojo1703

This is what concerns me. He had a ton of hair during his first and second but wanted to help his hairline. I peeked at his before and after photos from the first two procedures and I am shocked they pushed him to even do anything at those times due to the amount of hair he had then. I believe that they may have thinned his hair out to be honest. I'm worried that the graphs they did to "reinforce" the hairline will damage the formerly transplanted hair. We originally only went in for hair on the crown.  I asked and asked and it was almost as if no one wanted to answer me. 

Can someone tell me how others hr differ? Why bosley is known for being subpar and what do they do that causes that?

And how we can fix this if, in fact, it is not up to standards.

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## jamesst11

> This is what concerns me. He had a ton of hair during his first and second but wanted to help his hairline. I peeked at his before and after photos from the first two procedures and I am shocked they pushed him to even do anything at those times due to the amount of hair he had then. I believe that they may have thinned his hair out to be honest. I'm worried that the graphs they did to "reinforce" the hairline will damage the formerly transplanted hair. We originally only went in for hair on the crown.  I asked and asked and it was almost as if no one wanted to answer me. 
> 
> Can someone tell me how others hr differ? Why bosley is known for being subpar and what do they do that causes that?
> 
> And how we can fix this if, in fact, it is not up to standards.


 *** The number one rule of thumb in the HT world - NEVER perform surgery on a patient who has not showed significant hair loss, has maintained his hair for years on medication or both.  Age also plays a significant factor here.  Performing on anyone under 30 is often seen as very irresponsible and unethical.  There is A LOT of emotional factors and expectations and a certain degree of knowledge, reasonable expectations and emotional maturity are key. 

From what you've described, I will say in my personal opinion that what they did to your husband is almost exactly what they did to me.  I had loss on one side of my hair line.  I was under the assumption that I would lose no more, or lose it very very slowly, and I was self conscience about how it looked.  "no big deal, I have the money, it's 4 hours and outpatient"  I thought... for 2 years now, I have struggled with depression over what a horrible mistake it was. 

It was wrong.  It was devious, misleading and unethical.  In my opinion, my doctor should have a life sentence in maximum security, because now I know she's done this to others.  

Once again - Please rest easy that there is a solution to your husbands issues, and that he is still living and well.  From here on out, my personal advice would be to start a NON BIASED thread... simply with before and after photos, just of the recipient and donor area, so we can give you subjective advice. include age, number of operations, graft count per operation and placement.  Sorry you both are going through this.  I wish you the best of luck.

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## Jojo1703

So photos of before and after? I room photos right after. I do not have access to the original before photos from ten years ago. 

I'm sick to my stomach. We spent so much money. And now I'm petrified he's going to have an awful scar and have a botched worthless transplant.

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## jamesst11

> So photos of before and after? I room photos right after. I do not have access to the original before photos from ten years ago. 
> 
> I'm sick to my stomach. We spent so much money. And now I'm petrified he's going to have an awful scar and have a botched worthless transplant.


 Take a few deep breathes and remember a couple things.

1) it's just money.  It sucks, yes but you will make more  :Smile: 

2) There IS a solution to everything.  There are a lot of knowledgeable, ethical people on here.  This place helped me realize that there is a life after a botched HT.  

3) Yes, photos of before and after his last procedure.  If you have old photos of him in general from before his first procedure, that will help.  Also, explain a little bit about the procedure itself:

-How many grafts were transplanted?
- what exact area was the recipient site (if you have access to an immediate post op photo, that will help)
- Who was your doctor and where is he/she located (if you feel uncomfortable, don't.)

Things will get *BETTER*  Hang in there.

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## DAVE52

> *He had passed out from loss of blood*, they didn't bother to inform me of this. No one called me when it happened and not when I came into the room for post op maintenance information. He was scared and had asked to see me which was ignored. *We were forced to pay 600$ for a post op care kit* that contains Walmart brand antibiotic ointment, shampoo, a morning and night spray, 10 pain Meds and a bottle of 16 Advil. .


 Passing out is concerning.
And forced to pay $600 for a post op care kit is ridiculous. I would figure they give him a prescription for pain killers  and that be it 

Post some pics it may not be as bad as you think . Then again you would have to give it a year to see the growth

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## Jojo1703

I'm attempting to get these photos to post. 

Here are photos from before: 

And here is after:




I could probably take a few better. 

2400 graphs. Took nearly 12 hours. Strip method. Bled a ton. I'll add images of the sutures and guaranteed scar area.

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## jamesst11

> I'm attempting to get these photos to post. 
> 
> Here are photos from before: 
> 
> And here is after:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I cannot see them.  there is just an icon.

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## Jojo1703

I am trying to get them to post. I may have to upload them tomorrow once I get to a proper computer. My iPhone isn't cutting it.

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## Jojo1703

The first photos are post procedure.  I will add the suture photo later as well.

The third and fourth photo are the photos Bosley had us send for the consultation via email.  This is where they recommended 2400 graphs which we did and they requested prepayment for.

I asked a series of questions before we committed, but the answers to those questions changed once the prpcedure was completed.  Such as potenrial shock loss after procedure.  I had asked about anything like that which would impact our wedding and photos and was told no worries and once the procedure was completed I was told oh it happens.

The photo of the both of us was taken in middle Jan and you can see he has nice looking hair.

The placement of the graphs is (supposedly) 1500 on the crown, 400 to "reinforce" the hairline, and the rest between the hairline and the crown.  Now, oddly they left a space of over an inch after the hairline "reinforcement" where nothing was placed then began the placement then back to the crown.  I asked what the reason for the space was and still have not received answers.  I feel like once the hair begins to grow there will be a definite noticible area where is its oddly thinner.

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## jamesst11

I am a little confused. You said thus was his third procedure, correct?? What did they do in his first two? How many grafts per procedure and where were they placed? Do you have a photo from before his first procedure that is closer?

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## Jojo1703

> I am a little confused. You said thus was his third procedure, correct?? What did they do in his first two? How many grafts per procedure and where were they placed? Do you have a photo from before his first procedure that is closer?


 I do not have any images of before his first and second procedure.  I saw them in his Bosley file though.  They placed the grafts on his hairline both times.  The first procedure was in  2004 and was 1200, the second was in 2006 and was 1300.  Both the same area.

The images of before this third procedure: 
they are the closest that I have.

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## jamesst11

Give it some time, it looks like he will heal up o.k.  As for whether or not performing on him in the first was ethical or not, you know my opinion - absolutely not.  I feel when most surgeons from Bosley encounter someone that just has minimal hair loss, they feel like they've hit the jack pot.  They perform on them, knowing in the next year or so, they will experience additional loss, and keep coming back.  They back you into a horrible situation and try to make you rely on them again to solve it.   I had a similar situation, but am assuming I had even MORE hair than your husband when I had my procedure done.  I contacted several lawyers and one considered my case, then refused to take me on.  

    I THEN started posting on hair loss forums, like this one.  I just showed a before and after picture, with details about the procedure AND the doctors name so she would be held accountable, and people would know not to go to that doctor.  FIRST, some relations guy in NY called me and offered ANOTHER PROCEDURE.  I almost lost it over the phone.  I went into her office, dropped the photos on the desk and asked her, "do you think it's ethical to perform a hair transplant on people with such minimal hair loss?? Because I have talked to leaders in the industry and on hair loss forums and the consensus is that this is wrong".  She just started spouting out some nonsense, then started ignoring me. I have suffered horribly from this situation, but in return I have helped people avoid similar ones. 

     They then offered my money back, in return for removing all my posts.  I said no.  A few grand is not worth it.  People need to be informed about what an unethical person she is.  

*I am surprised no one else is commenting on this.  This forum is known for being obsessed with hair transplants and NO ONE is giving you and advice.  Here you have another Bosley case and people are more concerned with other, non substantial topics.* 

*You need to contact Joe Tillman and step by step, explain your entire situation.  He is known to be a leader in online mentoring for hair transplant procedures.  He has a blog here - http://www.hairtransplantmentor.com/* 

   Your husband will heal up fine, and you have to wait to see the results, 8-12 months.  I don't know what to say, because this is a tricky industry.  If you feel you have a case for malpractice, or emotional trauma, contact an attorney, and describe your case over the phone.  It's difficult in most situations, because as long as the level of care for a patient is met, it's hard to pursue.

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## Jojo1703

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your input.  I feel like everything you have said is true.  It is all about money and they don't care about the outcomes and emotional traumas that the patients suffer.

Thank you for the resource as well.  It really is a tragedy that so many people are taken advantage of by such guerilla marketing tactics.

Again, thank you for your words and support.

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## jamesst11

> I can't tell you how much I appreciate your input.  I feel like everything you have said is true.  It is all about money and they don't care about the outcomes and emotional traumas that the patients suffer.
> 
> Thank you for the resource as well.  It really is a tragedy that so many people are taken advantage of by such guerilla marketing tactics.
> 
> Again, thank you for your words and support.


 No worries at all.  I hope everything works out o.k. for you two.  He's lucky he has you to support him!  :Smile:

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## J_B_Davis

> *I am surprised no one else is commenting on this.  This forum is known for being obsessed with hair transplants and NO ONE is giving you and advice.  Here you have another Bosley case and people are more concerned with other, non substantial topics.* 
> 
> *You need to contact Joe Tillman and step by step, explain your entire situation.  He is known to be a leader in online mentoring for hair transplant procedures.  He has a blog here - http://www.hairtransplantmentor.com/* 
> 
>    Your husband will heal up fine, and you have to wait to see the results, 8-12 months.  I don't know what to say, because this is a tricky industry.  If you feel you have a case for malpractice, or emotional trauma, contact an attorney, and describe your case over the phone.  It's difficult in most situations, because as long as the level of care for a patient is met, it's hard to pursue.


 I think the advice given so far has been very reasonable. There is absolutely nothing that can be done at this point. Were they mislead, it does appear that so according to the story, but he already had two surgeries and was obviously not unhappy with the results otherwise he would not go back to Bosley. 

We all know that he was too young and had too much hair to have surgery in the first place, but that' s the past.

From the look of the pictures, everything appears to be ok. It is a bit of a shame to waste so many grafts in the crown when he will most likely need more work in the hairline in the future, but what's done is done. Since he had two transplants before he should know how long it takes to heal, so if he believed having a hair transplant two months before getting married was ok, then I can only assume that he is basing this on his own past experience. We all know that most people look worse before they look better so to me this was a mistake but it is not like he is new to this. If he were new to the process it would be a very different story, but since this was his third surgery with the same clinic, he is in part responsible for whatever the outcome might be. Just because they were mislead does not mean that the results won't be fine. I believe that at this point worrying over what might happen will only cause unnecessary stress.

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## Jojo1703

I just know how heartbroken he is over this situation and it pains me to see him distressed over something that was supposed to make things better.

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## Jojo1703

He was young when he had his first two procedures (22 & 24) and didn't remember much from them.  We went back again because we didn't know other options were available.  Also, it is Bosley again but a different location.  We do not have one in our state and had to travel.

He did not lose hair due to shock loss last time (that he recalls) and didn't recall anyone mentioning it to him then so we didn't have any cause for concern until we were told once the procedure was done.  I had asked multiple times if we should wait until after the wedding and was told no that it would not impact his hair in any means and that doing the procedure this close would be fine.  We originally had planned the procedure for August after our honeymoon, but they convinced us to do it sooner. 

I know worrying is wasteful at this time, but the atmosphere and environment of the procedure are what caused us concern.  I basically came here to get ideas, options and suggestions.  James has given me a few great resources to reach out to.  I think I was also looking for some sort of assurance that sometimes even when things seem and feel dire they can work out OK.

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## jamesst11

> He was young when he had his first two procedures (22 & 24) and didn't remember much from them.  We went back again because we didn't know other options were available.  Also, it is Bosley again but a different location.  We do not have one in our state and had to travel.
> 
> He did not lose hair due to shock loss last time (that he recalls) and didn't recall anyone mentioning it to him then so we didn't have any cause for concern until we were told once the procedure was done.  I had asked multiple times if we should wait until after the wedding and was told no that it would not impact his hair in any means and that doing the procedure this close would be fine.  We originally had planned the procedure for August after our honeymoon, but they convinced us to do it sooner. 
> 
> I know worrying is wasteful at this time, but the atmosphere and environment of the procedure are what caused us concern.  I basically came here to get ideas, options and suggestions.  James has given me a few great resources to reach out to.  I think I was also looking for some sort of assurance that sometimes even when things seem and feel dire they can work out OK.


 They definitely can!! He will heal up, and the grafts will grow! The only uncertainty is how happy he will be with the outcome, but that takes time.

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## Jojo1703

> They definitely can!! He will heal up, and the grafts will grow! The only uncertainty is how happy he will be with the outcome, but that takes time.


 James,

Thank you so much.  I am lucky I found this site and forum.  It is helping alleviate a lot of our fears.

Thank you for helping me.

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## JoeTillman

Hi Jojo,

James gave you my name and website for help. I've been away for the past few days and I just got back in a short while ago. I'm about to go on air, live, on the Bald Truth show so you are welcome to call in and discuss the issue. 

http://gfqnetwork.com/live/

1.888.659.3727

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## Jojo1703

> Hi Jojo,
> 
> James gave you my name and website for help. I've been away for the past few days and I just got back in a short while ago. I'm about to go on air, live, on the Bald Truth show so you are welcome to call in and discuss the issue. 
> 
> http://gfqnetwork.com/live/
> 
> 1.888.659.3727


 I was fortunate to be able to chat about our experience and that was very cathartic. 

One of the questions posed was about the doctor and in my interactions with him he was very kind and professional but I only saw him 2-3 quick times. I did interact with the RN and she seemed highly knowledgable and kind. I asked my fiancé about the doctor and he said that he didn't remember much of the time he was there because he was out for it but that he seemed meticulous which bodes well for placement and overall outcome I should think. I am focusing on any and all positives at this point. 

He did say no one was necessarily unkind but that we both would have liked aspects of the experience to have been different. Such as allowing me to accompany him and what not. 

I feel that having spoken about it alleviates some of the fear that there could be a poor outcome. It's a waiting game from here on out. I will post periodic photos and updates.

Also, in several months, we are to return for a follow-up and I will update the thread with that as well.

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## JoeTillman

> I was fortunate to be able to chat about our experience and that was very cathartic. 
> 
> One of the questions posed was about the doctor and in my interactions with him he was very kind and professional but I only saw him 2-3 quick times. I did interact with the RN and she seemed highly knowledgable and kind. I asked my fiancé about the doctor and he said that he didn't remember much of the time he was there because he was out for it but that he seemed meticulous which bodes well for placement and overall outcome I should think. I am focusing on any and all positives at this point. 
> 
> He did say no one was necessarily unkind but that we both would have liked aspects of the experience to have been different. Such as allowing me to accompany him and what not. 
> 
> I feel that having spoken about it alleviates some of the fear that there could be a poor outcome. It's a waiting game from here on out. I will post periodic photos and updates.
> 
> Also, in several months, we are to return for a follow-up and I will update the thread with that as well.


 Sometimes being able to talk about these things can really help and I'm glad we were able to shed some light on your fiance's case and that you feel even a little bit better about the future. As I said on air, at this point, it is a waiting game and there is a strong chance that a positive outcome will be achieved. Good luck and if you have any questions let us know and we all look forward to the updates to come.

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## Jojo1703

> Sometimes being able to talk about these things can really help and I'm glad we were able to shed some light on your fiance's case and that you feel even a little bit better about the future. As I said on air, at this point, it is a waiting game and there is a strong chance that a positive outcome will be achieved. Good luck and if you have any questions let us know and we all look forward to the updates to come.


 Yep, you all helped a lot today. I was just cleaning the donor area and applying ointment when I began to feel that anxiety welling up. Having so many kind and knowledgable people who have taken their time to speak with me and reach out to us, is so helpful in alleviating that anxiety. I wish I could make you all my "famous" tiramisu to say thank you, I will just have to share the recipe.  

From the bottom of our hearts again, I cannot express our gratitude at the support.  :Embarrassment:

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## WHTC Clinic

The clinic may have assumed some liability by allowing you to be in the operating room.  Permitting the supervision of a guest isn't an indication of how the grafts may grow.  The results might be acceptable despite the unfortunate circumstance.  Almost all of your concerns can be addressed by communicating with the clinic during the consultation process.  Thanks for sharing.

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## JoeTillman

> The clinic may have assumed some liability by allowing you to be in the operating room.  Permitting the supervision of a guest isn't an indication of how the grafts may grow.  The results might be acceptable despite the unfortunate circumstance.  Almost all of your concerns can be addressed by communicating with the clinic during the consultation process.  Thanks for sharing.


 With all due respect, there is no legitimate reason to prevent the poster from seeing her fiance in the OR. As long as proper protocols are followed it should be allowed. In the unlikely circumstance that regulations would not allow she would still be able to visit during the lunch break or any other breaks that SHOULD have been given to the patient. However, regulations were not a part of this as she was told numerous times that it was the doctor's prerogative to not allow her into the OR so this was, at most, a bad judgement call by the doctor or whomever made this final decision.

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## HTsoon

He passed out due to blood loss? Was there a doctor on site? It could be he passed out from the meds they gave him. Nevertheless, hearing techs argue about not wanting to do the job they are getting paid to do is not a good sign. My question is where was the doctor during this time? I still don't understand why someone would choose to go to this hair mill in 2016. I hope everything works out for your fiancé.

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## jamesst11

> He passed out due to blood loss? Was there a doctor on site? It could be he passed out from the meds they gave him. Nevertheless, hearing techs argue about not wanting to do the job they are getting paid to do is not a good sign. My question is where was the doctor during this time? I still don't understand why someone would choose to go to this hair mill in 2016. I hope everything works out for your fiancé.


 They do not hire well trained techs most of the time.  I was under the impression that my doc would do all the recipient site placement.  I put my trust in her.  The day off, she cut the strip quickly, sewed me up and left the room for two hours to tend to another patient I assume.  The techs that were seperating the grafts, could not have been older than 23-25.  These were the same techs that placed the grafts.  My doc created the recipient sites, 900 of them, in probably less than five minutes.  five months later, almost all my native hair was dead.  Since then, I have heard numerous complaints about this horribly unethical doctor... but her practice remains... They are simply vultures.  They are all parasites.  Like a parasite, they use illusion and trickery to invade the host and simply feed off them repetitively, sucking their money dry in hopes of a better outcome the next time.  

     Jojo,  I do not know if you feel comfortable doing this.. but anyone that has a bad experience with an unethical doctor, I believe, has the obligation to expose said doctor.  I know for fact, my simple story has persuaded several others from being butchered by my same doctor, and other Bosley surgeons around the world.  You should start a thread and expose these parasites.

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## HTsoon

> They do not hire well trained techs most of the time.  I was under the impression that my doc would do all the recipient site placement.  I put my trust in her.  The day off, she cut the strip quickly, sewed me up and left the room for two hours to tend to another patient I assume.  The techs that were seperating the grafts, could not have been older than 23-25.  These were the same techs that placed the grafts.  My doc created the recipient sites, 900 of them, in probably less than five minutes.  five months later, almost all my native hair was dead.  Since then, I have heard numerous complaints about this horribly unethical doctor... but her practice remains... They are simply vultures.  They are all parasites.  Like a parasite, they use illusion and trickery to invade the host and simply feed off them repetitively, sucking their money dry in hopes of a better outcome the next time.  
> 
>      Jojo,  I do not know if you feel comfortable doing this.. but anyone that has a bad experience with an unethical doctor, I believe, has the obligation to expose said doctor.  I know for fact, my simple story has persuaded several others from being butchered by my same doctor, and other Bosley surgeons around the world.  You should start a thread and expose these parasites.


 That's awful man, you did the right thing by exposing them, I'm sure you helped a lot of young unsuspecting men by telling your story.

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## jamesst11

> That's awful man, you did the right thing by exposing them, I'm sure you helped a lot of young unsuspecting men by telling your story.


 Yeah, people like her have A LOT to repent for.  I am no longer angry, I will let the universe deal with her horrendous atrocities.  I mean, she forgot that I wasn't on finasteride when she performed it.  She knew the most likely, life-altering outcome, she knew it.  She performed it anyways to line her pockets with a couple grand.  It takes a special kind of evil to knowingly disfigure someone for a couple grand.

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## GNX

it still amazes me that ppl get suckered into them late nite Bosley adds. it really demonstrates how ignorant ppl are wen it comes to HT's and choosing a HT doctor.

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## JoeTillman

> it still amazes me that ppl get suckered into them late nite Bosley adds. it really demonstrates how ignorant ppl are wen it comes to HT's and choosing a HT doctor.


 I think instead it demonstrates how effective marketing can be. When a company spends 30 million a year on marketing, such as Bosley does, it is not just to pay for commercials and magazine ads. It partially goes into research to find what works and what doesn't work and to understand how the average consumer reacts to specific marketing stimuli. These companies are not aiming for the consumer that is doing research on forums such as BTT. They are aimed at the consumer that believes reasonable sounding information, which to the uneducated, is exactly what their ads provide.

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## GNX

yea I guess ur right Joe. I mean usually on any of the HT forums the word Bosley is pretty much never discussed as an option but to those that have not done their research Bosley seems like the obvious choice I guess cause its not like ur seeing any of the top HT surgeons advertising on TV.

and BTW I think it was real shitty wat that coward ****over at ********* did to you. its a real shame a moron like runs that website. anyone who disagrees with him and says anything negative about a "Paying" doctor who advertises gets banned. he's a real schmuck and has no business running anything. 

and to see the doctors that they actually recommend over there makes me LOL literally!




> I think instead it demonstrates how effective marketing can be. When a company spends 30 million a year on marketing, such as Bosley does, it is not just to pay for commercials and magazine ads. It partially goes into research to find what works and what doesn't work and to understand how the average consumer reacts to specific marketing stimuli. These companies are not aiming for the consumer that is doing research on forums such as BTT. They are aimed at the consumer that believes reasonable sounding information, which to the uneducated, is exactly what their ads provide.

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## Jojo1703

> They do not hire well trained techs most of the time.  I was under the impression that my doc would do all the recipient site placement.  I put my trust in her.  The day off, she cut the strip quickly, sewed me up and left the room for two hours to tend to another patient I assume.  The techs that were seperating the grafts, could not have been older than 23-25.  These were the same techs that placed the grafts.  My doc created the recipient sites, 900 of them, in probably less than five minutes.  five months later, almost all my native hair was dead.  Since then, I have heard numerous complaints about this horribly unethical doctor... but her practice remains... They are simply vultures.  They are all parasites.  Like a parasite, they use illusion and trickery to invade the host and simply feed off them repetitively, sucking their money dry in hopes of a better outcome the next time.  
> 
>      Jojo,  I do not know if you feel comfortable doing this.. but anyone that has a bad experience with an unethical doctor, I believe, has the obligation to expose said doctor.  I know for fact, my simple story has persuaded several others from being butchered by my same doctor, and other Bosley surgeons around the world.  You should start a thread and expose these parasites.


 His doctor didn't place any grafts. It was technicians who were young, early 20's I would say.  One was sick the day of as well, i overheard her say she had a cold.  I pray that they did a good job.  I assume the doctor checked the work, but that is only an assumption.

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## Jojo1703

> I think instead it demonstrates how effective marketing can be. When a company spends 30 million a year on marketing, such as Bosley does, it is not just to pay for commercials and magazine ads. It partially goes into research to find what works and what doesn't work and to understand how the average consumer reacts to specific marketing stimuli. These companies are not aiming for the consumer that is doing research on forums such as BTT. They are aimed at the consumer that believes reasonable sounding information, which to the uneducated, is exactly what their ads provide.


 For our situation, we were honestly unaware that there were other options.  Ten years ago when he did his first and second, he was young and thought that Bolsey was the front runner in HT surgery and didn't know of anything else.  This is why we again went with them.  I started doing research after feeling like the experience was "off".  We live in a state without any HT doctors or a Bosley and honestly we put our trust in the name assuming that they were of quality.  It was naive of us but as Joe said, marketing works.  I'd honestly not seen a commercial for it before.

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## jamesst11

> For our situation, we were honestly unaware that there were other options.  Ten years ago when he did his first and second, he was young and thought that Bolsey was the front runner in HT surgery and didn't know of anything else.  This is why we again went with them.  I started doing research after feeling like the experience was "off".  We live in a state without any HT doctors or a Bosley and honestly we put our trust in the name assuming that they were of quality.  It was naive of us but as Joe said, marketing works.  I'd honestly not seen a commercial for it before.


 Don't feel bad.  When 99% of the population here the words hair transplant, the first thought that pops into their mind is Bosley.  Like Joe said, this is how they market.  They infiltrate the minds of the public, so that when you're losing your hair, their name is always in the back of your mind.  Like fast food and McDonalds.

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## Jojo1703

> Hi Jojo,
> 
> James gave you my name and website for help. I've been away for the past few days and I just got back in a short while ago. I'm about to go on air, live, on the Bald Truth show so you are welcome to call in and discuss the issue. 
> 
> http://gfqnetwork.com/live/
> 
> 1.888.659.3727


 
Joe,

I had a couple questions since you have had a lot of experience with not only your own but all the doctors you have worked with. 

I have been following your advice and documenting everything we do. Daily videos and photos and a diary log of times and actions. 

Last night we were discussing some of the procedure and he had a couple questions and concerns. 

We were told he was given a local anesthetic, but he was knocked out for the majority of the procedure. Is that common practice? He did not have that happen during his previous two. It concerns him that he had no memory or recollection for large chunks at a time. And of course since I wasn't allowed in or to talk to him it concerns me as well. 

In about a year we are interested in visiting one of the doctors you recommend to discuss his options and any further procedures if needed. I know we may be jumping the gun, but we also want to be prepared. Had we been more prepared and done more research we could have saved ourselves a lot of tears, anxiety and pain. 

My last question is about shampoo/conditioner and other products that you or your doctors recommend. 

I have read several articles and posts about them and was wondering what products you recommended as there is a vast array of them on the market. 

Thank you again.

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## JoeTillman

> We were told he was given a local anesthetic, but he was knocked out for the majority of the procedure. Is that common practice? He did not have that happen during his previous two. It concerns him that he had no memory or recollection for large chunks at a time. And of course since I wasn't allowed in or to talk to him it concerns me as well.


 No, this is not common but some clinic do knock their patients out for the surgery. I never understood the logic of this. This is one of the things that you have no control over as the patient has no opportunity to object to anything that is going on. At this point, it is not a point that matters but it is something you should make sure is documented. 




> In about a year we are interested in visiting one of the doctors you recommend to discuss his options and any further procedures if needed. I know we may be jumping the gun, but we also want to be prepared. Had we been more prepared and done more research we could have saved ourselves a lot of tears, anxiety and pain.


 No, you're not jumping the gun. You're empowering yourself for the future, which is what you should be doing. The next few months are going to be a rollercoaster of emotions. This is true even for patients that HAVE done their research and have read about all of the experiences online but it still happens. For you it may be worse just because you have the stain of this experience on your minds but regardless, you just need to remember that the result needs to have the time it deserves to reach maturity. No amount of frustration, screaming, kicking or action will change how the result will unfold so simply hang on for the ride. As I've said before, there is a very good chance that things could turn out fine so just try to keep that in mind.




> My last question is about shampoo/conditioner and other products that you or your doctors recommend. 
> 
> I have read several articles and posts about them and was wondering what products you recommended as there is a vast array of them on the market.


 As far as post-op recommendations, as long as you haven't received alternative recommendations from your clinic, then you're fine to use basically whatever you want. if there are recommendations then stick to them and ignore the rest of this paragraph :Smile:  There isn't a shampoo out there that will damage anything and none will really help. Just stick with quality shampoos, preferably ones you can buy in a good store and avoid the discount and low cost brands. Some have thickening properties but this really takes experimentation and that's about it. Once everything has healed, maybe around one month, he can try adding a ketoconazole shampoo such as Nizoral to his routine as directed on the bottle (two or three times a week?) and that should be the max that he'd need.  

To ensure hair health he can consider taking MSM tablets, available in any drug store or health food store (even your grocer) as well as biotin. These will help your hair grow stronger and faster but they have no known effect on promoting early growth of grafts.

Happy Easter!

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## Jojo1703

> No, this is not common but some clinic do knock their patients out for the surgery. I never understood the logic of this. This is one of the things that you have no control over as the patient has no opportunity to object to anything that is going on. At this point, it is not a point that matters but it is something you should make sure is documented. 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you're not jumping the gun. You're empowering yourself for the future, which is what you should be doing. The next few months are going to be a rollercoaster of emotions. This is true even for patients that HAVE done their research and have read about all of the experiences online but it still happens. For you it may be worse just because you have the stain of this experience on your minds but regardless, you just need to remember that the result needs to have the time it deserves to reach maturity. No amount of frustration, screaming, kicking or action will change how the result will unfold so simply hang on for the ride. As I've said before, there is a very good chance that things could turn out fine so just try to keep that in mind.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as post-op recommendations, as long as you haven't received alternative recommendations from your clinic, then you're fine to use basically whatever you want. if there are recommendations then stick to them and ignore the rest of this paragraph There isn't a shampoo out there that will damage anything and none will really help. Just stick with quality shampoos, preferably ones you can buy in a good store and avoid the discount and low cost brands. Some have thickening properties but this really takes experimentation and that's about it. Once everything has healed, maybe around one month, he can try adding a ketoconazole shampoo such as Nizoral to his routine as directed on the bottle (two or three times a week?) and that should be the max that he'd need.  
> ...


 Joe,

Happy Easter to you as well!

Thank you again for taking your time to answer my questions. It's extremely helpful to have such a knowledgable person. 🤓It's very clear that you have made a difference for us in our outlook and anxiety about the past and future of this procedure. I know your speaking and advocacy has helped so many. You are a blessing to the HT community. 

This website has been a blessing as well. 

Things do seem to be healing well. I remove his sutures tomorrow. Little spikes are growing in and the scabbing is going away. I'm praying he's one of the lucky few who doesn't have any shock loss. 

It is all about patience right now and for a few months. I am excited at the future and visiting one of the doctors whom you recommend. 

I will update after his first haircut on April 16 and with some wedding photos, As well as healing and growth. Super rivoting stuff, I know. 😉

Thanks again for all the support. 😁

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## Jojo1703

The suture site seems to be healing well albeit some sores from maybe some hairs growing through the area causing some sort of in-growns.

April 16 he goes for his first haircut in forever.  His hair is so long and curly and thinned in some areas possibly due to shock loss.  The main area we have noticed that in is the area he had previously had two transplants,  the front.  All of his front hair is transplanted hair.  Hopefully, it comes back.

Here are some photos of the crown to date

This experience has been stressful and emotionally draining but I have learned a lot and I have found this community.

About 6 weeks until the wedding.  I ordered some Toppik for him to try before the wedding to perhaps use at the wedding.  If anyone has a better suggestion, I am all for it.

I will post some after haircut photos, his hair always looks better after a haircut.   It is so heavy when it is long and curly that it makes it look thinner :Cool:

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## JoeTillman

> The suture site seems to be healing well albeit some sores from maybe some hairs growing through the area causing some sort of in-growns.
> 
> April 16 he goes for his first haircut in forever.  His hair is so long and curly and thinned in some areas possibly due to shock loss.  The main area we have noticed that in is the area he had previously had two transplants,  the front.  All of his front hair is transplanted hair.  Hopefully, it comes back.
> 
> Here are some photos of the crown to date
> 
> This experience has been stressful and emotionally draining but I have learned a lot and I have found this community.
> 
> About 6 weeks until the wedding.  I ordered some Toppik for him to try before the wedding to perhaps use at the wedding.  If anyone has a better suggestion, I am all for it.
> ...


 Hi JoJo,
Thank you for the updates. It looks normal, actually, and there is nothing I see that shows that there is any impending problems. A tip about the Toppik, when it comes time to experiment try not to use too much so that it looks caked on. The trick is to still allow some scalp to show through as that is what looks natural. Be sure to get a strong hairspray that has a shine to it because Toppik can make the area treated look dull and powdery. You should also order and try Dermatch which is applied directly to the scalp and doesn't need to be sprinkled in. 

He's going to get sores in the donor zone off an on for a few months and it is just part of the healing process. When growth starts he'll get some pimples in the recipient area because some of the hairs get trapped and become "ingrown". You can use a hand towel soaked in hot water to relax the tissue then squeeze it out. It doesn't hurt the grafts and frees up the hair.

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