# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  Everyone in here, now.

## Conpecia

Ok guys,

I'm not sure how much of this information has made its way to this forum, but there are a few threads on other forums showing what appears to be a very promising treatment:

*chlorine dioxide.* 

A couple months ago, a Chinese man by the name of liuxuewu started posted on HLH with regard to an alleged "cure" he had discovered and patented. As you all know (or should know if you've spent any time on hair loss forums) this stuff happens all the time. A guy with no post history starts throwing around the word "cure," whips together a few questionable photographs, and charges $80 for a product that "takes 3-6 months to show full results." Classic hair loss snake oil. 

What was different about Liu is that he actually offered free samples of his product, a mixture of ingredients featuring chlorine dioxide, to anyone who wanted them. I'd never heard of anyone doing that before. So I started following the thread with some interest. 

Shortly thereafter, one of the HLH members, Summersnow, decided to trial his own version of chlorine dioxide.

Around the same time, veteran PHG member SwissTemples began reporting *results* that he was getting from an undisclosed topical: 

(8 photos in chronological order showing clear hairline regrowth) 

http://imgur.com/snZ4I8K,2pvhUEs,fCo...CsGY,pgI0SSs#0




A couple months passed. Some of those who had received samples of CD began applying and documenting. They reported INTENSE, QUICK sheds in the beginning, followed by regrowth of shed hair as well as what appeared to be the beginnings of regrowth of hair that had been lost to MPB. They reported their scalps began to feel healthier, no MPB itch. 

Eventually Summersnow returned with some (shoddy, but very promising) photographs: 

(13 photos in chronological order appearing to show drastic improvement in crown area):

http://imgur.com/vsTr7zy,dbXAEjl,aeY...Z1td5q,VkAP5ug


Today, SwissTemples has just revealed the topical he is using: chlorine dioxide mixed with DMSO. Just like Summersnow.

Many others are reporting the beginnings of regrowth in areas thought to have been lost to MPB. It is very early days for this, but the potential is there.

I personally believe this to be a major breakthrough. Liu alleges that his treatment has cured 40 people in China already. He has posted photographs of dramatic results over a year's time. How this treatment works, I have no idea. I believe it has something to do with wounding and growth factors, in line with the Costarelis papers from a couple years ago, as well as the limited results we saw from dermarolling last year. 

I would encourage everyone here, particularly the forum leaders like Desmond, Pate, etc., to please begin researching this treatment. There are still MANY questions to which we need answers:

What is the best regimen to combine with this treatment?
Do we still need AA's like fin and dut?
IS THIS SAFE TO DO LONG TERM?
Are the results long term? 
Etc... 

I think we should somehow create an organized, efficient way to trial this treatment. 

That begin said: please remember this is EXPERIMENTAL. There ARE unknowns and potential dangers. And this treatment causes an EXTREME initial shed of BOTH terminal and thinning hair. DO NOT DUMP THIS STUFF ALL OVER YOUR HEAD, you may bleach your hair, and you will certainly lose a ton of hair very quickly. I've seen photos of guys losing 2 norwoods worth of hair in 3 days time... the hair is growing back but it still seems like utter torture to go bald that quickly. So again, let's RESEARCH and DISCUSS this treatment before we all start burning our hairlines off. 


I'll keep you guys updated with anymore photos I find. Godspeed.

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## deuce

The questions listed above are questions I think only professionals could answer.  Looks cool, but I think I am going to sit this one out.  Best of luck to y'all though.

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## rdawg

Very very interesting one, definitely want professional opinion on this stuff.

I think the best part of this is that so many people are testing it our on that forum, but it's still very early and some of the side effects were worrisome(i.e burning on the scalp) 

definitely gonna monitor this one!

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## hopeeman

if the chlorine dioxide so good...
why this is not famous treatment likw RU?
where can i buy it?

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## HairIsLife

> if the chlorine dioxide so good...
> why this is not famous treatment likw RU?
> where can i buy it?


 Some nut from China started all this on HLH.

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## kmit028

> if the chlorine dioxide so good...
> why this is not famous treatment likw RU?
> where can i buy it?


 http://phhealth.co.uk/products/mms-1

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## luca10

Amazing photos

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## clandestine

Conpecia! How are you?

And thank you for the information and pictures.

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## Recidive

> Amazing photos


 Actually this is amazing... I wonder if the HCl acts in some similar way to nitric oxide (the minoxidil way) producing vasodilation or it is somehow related to the so-called conversion of normal cells into stem cells with an "acid bath" of HCl (although this was recently shown to be fake in the Riken Institute in Japan, perhaps there is something different like activation of already existent stem cells...) anyway, this looks like a breakthrough, so simple that it is going to leave everybody else wondering why they did not think about this

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## brocktherock

The hairline pics look like he shaved it. I've had progress with RU and the hair is all different sizes and lengths, they aren't all the same size and prickly. Those crown pics look a little suspect too. I smell snake oil.

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## Dimoxynil

Will keep an eye out. Agree that there should be a proper thread on here for it to reinforce or dismiss this product's validity.

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## hopeeman

so? i can buy this and use it?
the results better then minox and fin?
whay everyone dnot use it?

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## walrus

Interesting. Some relevant safety information to be aware of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorin...nd_supplements
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethy...oxide#Toxicity

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## Conpecia

> The hairline pics look like he shaved it. I've had progress with RU and the hair is all different sizes and lengths, they aren't all the same size and prickly. Those crown pics look a little suspect too. I smell snake oil.


 
how exactly are people going to profit off of a cheap substance you can make yourself. you lose.

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## Conpecia

> Conpecia! How are you?
> 
> And thank you for the information and pictures.


 
hey clan! i'm doing well. spend most of my time on the private forums these days but always like to help BTT guys out when i can.

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## Pentarou

The two forum users who've claimed to use this 'treatment' aren't reliable, trustworthy or stable individuals from their past conducts, so I don't believe this for a second.

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## hellouser

> The two forum users who've claimed to use this 'treatment' aren't reliable, trustworthy or stable individuals from their past conducts, so I don't believe this for a second.


 The dude from PHG definitely is reliable.

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## NeedHairASAP

here are a series of posts (not all the same person) from one of the forums... potentially some insight into how this works?




---------------


I'm extremely skeptical but on the other hand intrigued that rapid shedding and some sort of regrowth supposedly happens with this. I would be wary though, cause this may definitely actually cause more harm then good. The consensus on AGA now actually is that the the androgen receptor causes oxidative stress/ROS. Meaning it would be very contradicting to use a strong oxidizing agent like chlorine dioxide. You are literally disregarding the recent papers on AGA if you use this. 

I posted a bit on a superficial level about the mechanism of AGA in this topic in several posts; https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=17379. Could be quite hard to understand for some perhaps, prof Michael Philpott talks about it here at the recent hair congress; 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0klARAxOYiI 

Probably too complex for some to understand at first sight. But oxidative stress/ROS is believed to play a huge role, and has gotten allot of attention recently in AGA. 

When I saw this topic I was extremely surprised and only could think of 1 way why this POSSIBLE may seem to do something, even if it seems extremely dumb and strange to use a oxidizing agent. Then I remembered I opted for a kind some sort of same mechanism and I am pretty sure it happens here. I posted it here too; https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...l=1#post176358. Asking if apoptis was possible. 

Apoptis happens here, I am quite sure. By delivering chlorine dioxide as strong oxidizing agent. Chlorine dioxide just puts immense ROS/oxidation on the hair follicle, this is why you guys rapidly shed. You are literally probably creating apoptis (destroying cells) by applying chlorine dioxide. Now you might ask why does there seem to occur regrowth then? 

Hormesis is the most likely answer. If you want to know what hormesis is read the first paragraph of this study; http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucbtdag/Gems_2008.pdf "What is hormesis".

I just skimmed briefly through his patent and Dr. Liu seems to actually propose this hypothesis too in his patent; 

"Dioxide to give 5-chloro-electron redox potentials of 1.5 and 1.2 than oxygen, as the strong electron-donating ability to obtain, are strong oxidants. The inventors believe that chlorine dioxide can promote stem cell proliferation in mammals, migration and differentiation depend on two paths: relying on strong oxidizing ability of chlorine dioxide will destroy ordinary cells, can cause similar wounds or removal of necrotic tissue in the tissue and produce pain , the body will automatically start stem cells wound healing" 

The multiple shedding bounds reported by swisstemples and I think also summersnow in the topic support this hypothesis. To be honest this is the most likely answer about the mechanism behind chlorine dioxide. Chlorine may have some off side target effects to 5ar2 but I doubt that is the main thing what is happening here. We do know some more than 30 years ago . 

One thing is for sure using this long term I would imagine this will do more harm then good. That is just a assumption perhaps hormesis at the right dosage with the exact frequent intervals may put the hair follicles into pre-mpb state, this is pure hypothesis though. I would be extremely wary, skeptical and alert if I were you guys though. Especially the one who are trialling it. Good luck. 

-----------------


Last year i switched to dut and got so much regrowth after an awful shed.(If you've read my thread before,you'll remember it.).The shedding was just like what this experiment was doing to its testers.I shed almost all the hairs on crown.I was very sure about Dut being the primary weapon in regrowth. 

After reading about this experiment,something hit me.I did started using DMSO the same time i started Dut.Lately i've been thinking if DMSO was what gave me regrowth.I remember being in so much pain while applying it,a couple of times i had to clean it after 1 minute because it was burning so much that it made me scream.(literally).I have serious doubts now if it was dmso or dut...coz i did get so much regrowth.And i was experimenting with 100% DMSO for 2-3 months after reading something about reverse fibrosis and DMSO.



------

Seeing the rate intervals of how the intense quick onset of shedding and pretty fast regrowth. I am pretty certain that indeed chlorine dioxide is causing apoptis of cells leading to possible hormesis. No doubt as such a strong oxidizing agent. Here is a recent patent about it too describing a similar formulation and having a apoptic function; http://www.google.com/patents/CN103720709A?cl=en. 


The theoretical value of this is pretty huge but practically hmm. I am pretty sure this is what Dr. Liu means too with his "wounding", perhaps he can chime in on my story I would appreciate it. Don't think he can explain it in english though. Though I think this is extremely interesting, as basically imo you want to create a sort form of hormesis (through apoptis, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18702626 there is shitmore on the subjec though) to put these cells back in pre-mpb state. Instead we have minoxidil as growth agent, LLLT somewhat, but these only put the cells in overdrive primarily by stimulating the mitochrondia and subsequently increasing ATP. Never would of thought of a oxidizing agent though. Funny. As Dr. Liu describes I definitely don't believe this is the cure. Can it regrow some hair , in some individuals in specific intervals and dosage? Perhaps. We'll see. It seems do at least somewhat something atm. 

Question to Dr. Liu btw i was curious of, in your product ingredients you mention stem cell growth factor. Is this just SCF derived from e.coli? Thanks.

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## garethbale

I'm not falling for this bollocks

I was stupid enough to but some CB on the basis of hearsay from another forum and that did absolutely nothing.

I'd rather lose my hair for free than pay for it.

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## Arashi

Wow, putting a toxic product on your scalp cause you saw some pics on the internet ... Welcome to the hairloss fora  :Smile:

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## Chromeo

I think this has already been brought up and subsequently debunked elsewhere. When I read the words "chlorine dioxide" I immediately recalled reading about this nasty sh*t, looked it up on Wikipedia and I was right; this stuff has killed people. I wouldn't go anywhere near it, personally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Mineral_Supplement

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## brocktherock

> how exactly are people going to profit off of a cheap substance you can make yourself. you lose.


 I have no idea but I've seen some stupid treatments come and go like cetitrizine. I won't take a risk with this. Hopefully I'm wrong.

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## gainspotter

> I think this has already been brought up and subsequently debunked elsewhere. When I read the words "chlorine dioxide" I immediately recalled reading about this nasty sh*t, looked it up on Wikipedia and I was right; this stuff has killed people. I wouldn't go anywhere near it, personally.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Mineral_Supplement


 So you're thinking people drink it then? Lol. 

There's no way I'd ever put any chemical with potential sides on my head. I'll just stick to taking minoxidil and propecia. Oh wait!!

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## ThisSucksDude

This is tempting but I've already learned the hard way when it comes to desperation and experimenting.

Don't try it yet, wait for more info.

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## Kudu

You guys see how it was bleaching his hair in the pics? If I remember right, that's a sign of damage. Try putting hydrogen peroxide in your hair everyday, should have a similar effect. I see these guys loosing a lot of hair they aren't getting back. Hopefully not but it doesn't look good...

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## David7

Patiently waiting, seen too many fake products anyway great news boosted my day.

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## Conpecia

> The two forum users who've claimed to use this 'treatment' aren't reliable, trustworthy or stable individuals from their past conducts, so I don't believe this for a second.


 SwissTemples is absolutely reliable.

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## hairlosskills

> SwissTemples is absolutely reliable.


 Im pretty sure swiss scammed the **** out of mark.
But with that sais swiss is reliable

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## hellouser

> *Im pretty sure swiss scammed the **** out of mark.*
> But with that sais swiss is reliable


 How is that relevant?

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## Pentarou

Do you REALLY trust an individual with that kind of track record?

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## hellouser

> Do you REALLY trust an individual with that kind of track record?


 Swiss? Yes.

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## Conpecia

> I have no idea but I've seen some stupid treatments come and go like cetitrizine. I won't take a risk with this. Hopefully I'm wrong.


 
That's fine but calling it snake oil implies someone is trying to profit off of it. The only guy that could have an agenda is the Chinese guy and there are two other, independent accounts of regrowth from guys who made their own CD treatments from scratch.

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## Jazz1

> Swiss? Yes.


 Snap, I been member longer in hairlosshelp and pioneer group buy that's where I remember Swiss from  :Smile: .

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## Chromeo

> So you're thinking people drink it then? Lol. 
> 
> There's no way I'd ever put any chemical with potential sides on my head. I'll just stick to taking minoxidil and propecia. Oh wait!!


 Please do.

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## Pate

Can't say I see any completely unambiguous evidence of regrowth in either set.

The hairline shots definitely could be shaved hairs (or depilated hairs) rather than new hairs - there is not really a good enough set of before shots to tell.

It appears to have caused a pretty serious chemical burn on the temples which could have damaged the hair in a kind of reaction similar to a depilatory cream.

I don't know anything about the posters concerned but if they do have a history of previously dodgy behaviour, I really don't hold much hope.

More evidence definitely needed. But this stuff is potentially very dangerous, so anybody trying it would need to be very careful. Just take a look at the Wikipedia page for it, and all the warning signs on it - oxidising agent, very toxic, corrosive, and damaging to the environment.

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## Pentarou

> There's no way I'd ever put any chemical with potential sides on my head. I'll just stick to taking minoxidil and propecia. Oh wait!!


 There's a *huge* difference between using well-documented, properly researched, legally approved and licenced medications... And sticking a hazardous chemical on your scalp because three people on an Internet forum with no medical training claim it works with no objective proof.

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## gainspotter

> There's a *huge* difference between using well-documented, properly researched, legally approved and licenced medications... And sticking a hazardous chemical on your scalp because three people on an Internet forum with no medical training claim it works with no objective proof.


 It's also well documented that propecia is dangerous and minoxidil has unpleasant sides for some. Doesn't stop people using them.
If you want to wait around for an effective hair loss treatment that has 0 sides then, well, good luck with that.

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## phalpal

> There's a *huge* difference between using well-documented, properly researched, legally approved and licenced medications... And sticking a hazardous chemical on your scalp because three people on an Internet forum with no medical training claim it works with no objective proof.


 I take it you dont read much

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## phalpal

Anyway, Swiss is a reliable guy; he never scammed mark for that matter either, pretty sure that was just pulled out of your ass m8;

this stuff is dirt cheap and easily accessible, try it if you want, people are using it already, carefully, with no adverse effects; if you want to wait then wait, not much to be discussed, but the fact that its growing hair is indisputable

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## Dan26

Yes swiss is varry bad man...does research, presents studies, uses himself as guinea pig, then brings it all to our attention so we can freely make an informed choice. For shame!

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## JimmyHairte

So where to buy, how to mix and apply this stuff? It looks cheap enough and results are to be expected early on so I'm definitely willing to try it out.

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## luca10

Conpecia, You have some email where you can talk to you and help me build my lotion?

(TRADUCTOR GOOGLE)

Thanks

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## NeedHairASAP

From another forum poster:

Ok chlorine dioxide got my interest, the anecdotal evidence suggests that it might be doing something (time will tell to what extent!). 

While trying to keep an open mind about chlorine dioxide, and trying to accept mr. Liuxuewu's product results (specially those one year results pics in frontal recession) as a possible truth, I tried to identify the pathways on which it might be working. To my surprise a strong oxidizing agent like chlorine dioxide despite the fact that it might destroy most pathogens it may not be regarded as an antibiotic, instead this ability might be regarded as immunomodulation (check Tetrachlorodecaoxide (TCDO) by targeting the macrophage. We're talking about modulating immune responses and inappropriate inflammatory reactions. It's hard to predict to what point this ability could work in our favor (AGA), but the possibilities are tremendous, macrophage is linked directly or indirectly to various pathways/signals of our interest, such as DKK1, NfkB, Wnt, Bcatenin and in this cascade we might even consider down-regulation of androgen receptors expression levels, which is definitely connected to inflammatory pathways. 

Be carefull to not misinterpret my words, I'm not saying chlorine dioxide is regulating all these factors to "perfect" levels, because if it did we would definitely be looking into a very very... really really... effective treatment! All I'm saying is that it might be working through these pathways to some extent, and that could justify whatever efficacy it might have on the treatment of AGA. 

Although I still believe proteasome inhibition holds much more promise in a safety / efficacy point of view, trying to regulate macrophage with chlorine dioxide might worth the shot... 

Please note that I'm not supporting mr. Liuxuewu's treatment, beyond this approach I'm not able to see use for his other ingredients (although I could be wrong), and it's really hard for me to understand the use of propylene glycol in a treatment of this nature, because it's a thick oily substance that sits on the scalp, taking too much time to absorb, forcing prolonged contact with the hair on the skin surface, resulting in breakage/shedding. DMSO sounds definitely like a better approach, although limiting this effect it will increase systemic absorption. 

Having this said I might try my own chlorine dioxide solution, much like summersnow and swissTemples (congratulations to both of you for pioneering this experiment), with different dilutions, maybe something like: chlorine dioxide (end result 1000ppm) : deionized water : DMSO (1 : 1 : 1) and variate from this starting point. 

For whoever is interested in some reading and I really do recommend to not just take my word on this, below is some interesting literature regarding what I just wrote. Please take in consideration that I'm trying to understand/justify why would chlorine dioxide work for AGA without even knowing if it actually works. 

http://www.irbbarcelona.org/en...follicle-regeneration 
Crosstalk of macrophages and skin stem cells during hair follicle regeneration 
31 Jan 2013 
.	Presentation 
Speaker: Mirna Perez-Moreno, 
Centro Nacional de Investigaciones Oncológicas (CNIO). Madrid (Spain) 
Organizer: IRB Barcelona 
Host: Dr.Angel Nebreda, IRB Barcelona 
Date: Thursday, 31 January 2013, 16:00h 
Place: Aula Fèlix Serratosa, Parc Cièntific de Barcelona, Spain 
Abstract: Adult stem cells reside in specialized environments that regulate their behavior. Over last decade a number of studies have been instrumental for defining regulatory pathways controlling their proliferation and/or differentiation. Although, the current challenge in the stem cell field is the identification of factors that mobilize endogenous stem cell pools in tissues to promote regeneration. 
Using mouse skin, a well-characterized model to study stem cell behavior, we have identified that the spatiotemporal secretion of signals arising from macrophages are able to orchestrate stem cell regenerative capabilities, allowing them to differentiate and integrate properly in the regenerating hair follicles. These signals involve the release of Wnt ligands from a fraction of skin resident macrophages that are able to control hair follicle stem cells activation, hair grow and tissue regeneration. Our results indicate that macrophages contribute to the activation of skin epithelial stem cells, adding new insight to the cues underlying their regenerative potential, which may have future implications in skin repair, inflammatory skin diseases, aging and cancer. 

http://www.nuvoresearch.com/wf10 
WF10 is a solution of OXO-K993 containing stabilized chlorite ions that focuses on supporting the immune system by targeting the macrophage, a type of white blood cell that coordinates much of the immune system to regulate normal immune function. Normally functioning macrophages can alternate between one of two basic states: phagocytic and inflammatory. Phagocytic macrophages digest invading organisms, such as viruses, and initiate a biological defense pathway. Inflammatory macrophages, in turn, induce a variety of reactions, including fever, sweating, swollen glands, malaise and appetite loss, the common, uncomfortable signs of illness. Such responses, while entirely normal, must be turned on and off in a controlled manner. If left unchecked pathogens can overdrive the system toward the inflammatory state creating an imbalance that may lead to such medical disorders as chronic inflammation, immune deficiency, organ damage and tumour proliferation. 

WF10's mode of activity is believed to be based on how macrophages regulate the immune system. Research suggests that, in some cases, WF10 may rebalance improperly functioning immune systems. The drug has potential applications in adjuvant cancer therapy, diseases related to immune deficiencies and the management of chronic viral infections. 

http://www.nuvoresearch.com/oxoferin 
Oxoferin, a topical wound healing agent, is a diluted form of WF10, a chlorite-based, immunomodulating drug. The Company believes that research to-date suggests Oxoferin has a positive impact on wound healing leading to contraction, closure and faster healing of wounds. 

Chronic, hard-to-heal wounds are a serious problem with an increasing incidence. Chronic wounds can be caused by such conditions as burns, pressure sores and poor circulation in the lower extremities. Co-morbid conditions, such as diabetes and atherosclerosis, reduce blood flow to the extremities and also increase the likelihood of developing chronic wounds such as diabetic foot ulcers and venous ulcers. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12054081 
WF10, which contains chlorite as the active principle, causes profound changes in macrophage function and activation of gene expression, and appears to downregulate inappropriate immunological activation. The loss of T-cell function observed in HIV-infected patients likely requires the involvement of chronically activated macrophages. Therefore, the persistently activated macrophage represents a therapeutic target that is, unlike HIV, not highly mutable. With this target as a focus, WF10 is being developed for use in advanced HIV disease. WF10 is currently being studied in the US, Europe and Asia for treatment of late-stage HIV disease, as well as recurrent prostate cancer, late post-radiation cystitis, autoimmune disease and chronic active hepatitis C disease. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachlorodecaoxide 
Due to its oxidizing properties, TCDO can destroy most pathogens although it is not regarded asantibiotic. But the main reason for its use for dressing of wounds is not its bactericidal activity. This drug is regarded asimmunomodulating, that is, it acts by stimulating the immune system of the body. Tetrachlorodecaoxide combines with the haem part of hemoglobin, myoglobin and peroxidase, forming a TCDO-haemo complex. This in turn activates the macrophages and accelerates the process of phagocytosis which engulfs most of the pathogens and cell debris present on the surface of the wound, thus cleaning the wound surface and helping in the regenerative process. Tetrachlorodecaoxide is also mitogenic and chemotactic. The mitogenic impulse gives rise to two factors, MDGF(Macrophage derived growth factor) and WAF (Wound angiogenesis factor). The MDGF deposits fibroblasts and synthesizescollagen fibers which fills the gap in the wounds, the WAF helps in the formation of new capillaries which further enhances the healing process. The chemotactic impulse acts on the myocyte (muscle cell) and causes it to contract, thereby bringing the wound edges closer and reducing the wound surface. Simultaneous influence of all these factors accelerate the wound healing with minimal scarring 

http://www.google.com/patents/US20120134929 
Treatment of macrophage-related disorders 
US 20120134929 A1 
ABSTRACT 
The present invention provides a method of treating a macrophage related disease comprising administering to a subject in need thereof an effective amount of an oxidative agent or an immunosuppressive agent. The present invention also provides a method of modulating macrophage accumulation or activation comprising administering to a subject in need thereof an effective amount of an oxidative agent or an immunosuppressive agent. The oxidative agent can be chlorite or a chlorite containing compound. 
Macrophages are white blood cells produced by the division of monocytes. Monocytes and macrophages are phagocytes, and play a role in innate immunity (non-specific immune defenses) as well as helping to initiate adaptive immunity (specific defense mechanisms). These cells phagocytose (engulf and then digest) cellular debris and pathogens either as stationary or as mobile cells. When activated by pathogens or by other mechanisms, macrophages stimulate and recruit lymphocytes and other immune cells to respond to the insult. 
Although macrophages play a vital role in host immune defenses, activated macrophages are also involved in the progression of a number of diseases and disorders. Activated macrophages elicit massive leukocyte infiltration and flood the surrounding tissue with inflammatory mediators, pro-apoptotic factors, and matrix degrading proteases. These actions can result in inflammation that can dismantle tissues to the point of inflicting serious injury. Tissue destruction perpetrated by macrophage-induced inflammation has been associated with the development of tumors, autoimmune disorders, and other conditions. 
Oxidative agents such as chlorite can return macrophages to their inactivated state. Immunosuppressant agents can mitigate macrophage activation. The present invention provides methods for the treatment of macrophage-related diseases and related conditions with oxidative agents or immunosuppressant agents. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22915828 
Targeting androgen receptor to suppress macrophage-induced EMT and benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) development. 
Lu T1, Lin WJ, Izumi K, Wang X, Xu D, Fang LY, Li L, Jiang Q, Jin J, Chang C. 
Author information 
Abstract 
Early studies suggested macrophages might play roles in inflammation-associated benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) development, yet the underlying mechanisms remain unclear. Here we first showed that CD68(+) macrophages were identified in both epithelium and the stromal area of human BPH tissues. We then established an in vitro co-culture model with prostate epithelial and macrophage cell lines to study the potential impacts of infiltrating macrophages in the BPH development and found that co-culturing prostate epithelial cells with macrophages promoted migration of macrophages. In a three-dimensional culture system, the sphere diameter of BPH-1 prostate cells was significantly increased during coculture with THP-1 macrophage cells. Mechanism dissection suggested that expression levels of epithelial-mesenchymal transition (EMT) markers, such as N-cadherin, Snail, and TGF-?2, were increased, and administration of anti-TGF-?2 neutralizing antibody during co-culture suppressed the EMT and THP-1-mediated growth of BPH-1 cells, suggesting THP-1 might go through EMT to influence the BPH development and progression. Importantly, we found that modulation of androgen receptor (AR) in BPH-1 and mPrE cells significantly increased THP-1 and RAW264.7 cell migration, respectively, and enhanced expression levels of EMT markers, suggesting that AR in prostate epithelial cells might play a role in promoting macrophage-mediated EMT in prostate epithelial cells. Silencing AR function via an AR degradation enhancer, ASC-J9, decreased the macrophage migration to BPH-1 cells and suppressed EMT marker expression. Together, these results provide the first evidence to demonstrate that prostate epithelial AR function is important for macrophage-mediated EMT and proliferation of prostate epithelial cells, which represents a previously unrecognized role of AR in the cross-talk between macrophages and prostate epithelial cells. These results may provide new insights for a new therapeutic approach to battle BPH via targeting AR and AR-mediated inflammatory signaling pathways. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16101534 
Macrophages in inflammation. 
Fujiwara N1, Kobayashi K. 
Author information 
Abstract 
The inflammatory process is usually tightly regulated, involving both signals that initiate and maintain inflammation and signals that shut the process down. An imbalance between the two signals leaves inflammation unchecked, resulting in cellular and tissue damage. Macrophages are a major component of the mononuclear phagocyte system that consists of closely related cells of bone marrow origin, including blood monocytes, and tissue macrophages. From the blood, monocytes migrate into various tissues and transform macrophages. In inflammation, macrophages have three major function; antigen presentation, phagocytosis, and immunomodulation through production of various cytokines and growth factors. Macrophages play a critical role in the initiation, maintenance, and resolution of inflammation. They are activated and deactivated in the inflammatory process. Activation signals include cytokines (interferon gamma, granulocyte-monocyte colony stimulating factor, and tumor necrosis factor alpha), bacterial lipopolysaccharide, extracellular matrix proteins, and other chemical mediators. Inhibition of inflammation by removal or deactivation of mediators and inflammatory effector cells permits the host to repair damages tissues. Activated macrophages are deactivated by anti-inflammatory cytokines (interleukin 10 and transforming growth factor beta) and cytokine antagonists that are mainly produced by macrophages. Macrophages participate in the autoregulatory loop in the inflammatory process. Because macrophages produce a wide range of biologically active molecules participated in both beneficial and detrimental outcomes in inflammation, therapeutic interventions targeted macrophages and their products may open new avenues for controlling inflammatory diseases. 

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/39335 
Monocyte/macrophage androgen receptor suppresses cutaneous wound healing in mice by enhancing local TNF-? expression 
Jiann-Jyh Lai, Kuo-Pao Lai, Kuang-Hsiang Chuang, Philip Chang, I-Chen Yu,Wen-Jye Lin and Chawnshang Chang 
George Whipple Lab for Cancer Research, Department of Pathology, Department of Urology, Department of Radiation Oncology, and Wilmot Cancer Center, University of Rochester Medical Center, Rochester, New York, USA. 
Address correspondence to: Chawnshang Chang, Box 626, 601 Elmwood Avenue, Rochester, New York 14642, USA. Phone: (585) 273-4500; Fax: (585) 756-4133; E-mail: chang@URMC.rochester.edu. 
First published November 9, 2009 
Submitted: March 26, 2009; Accepted: September 16, 2009. 
Cutaneous wounds heal more slowly in elderly males than in elderly females, suggesting a role for sex hormones in the healing process. Indeed, androgen/androgen receptor (AR) signaling has been shown to inhibit cutaneous wound healing. AR is expressed in several cell types in healing skin, including keratinocytes, dermal fibroblasts, and infiltrating macrophages, but the exact role of androgen/AR signaling in these different cell types remains unclear. To address this question, we generated and studied cutaneous wound healing in cell-specific AR knockout (ARKO) mice. General and myeloid-specific ARKO mice exhibited accelerated wound healing compared with WT mice, whereas keratinocyte- and fibroblast-specific ARKO mice did not. Importantly, the rate of wound healing in the general ARKO mice was dependent on AR and not serum androgen levels. Interestingly, although dispensable for wound closure, keratinocyte AR promoted re-epithelialization, while fibroblast AR suppressed it. Further analysis indicated that AR suppressed wound healing by enhancing the inflammatory response through a localized increase in TNF-? expression. Furthermore, AR enhanced local TNF-? expression via multiple mechanisms, including increasing the inflammatory monocyte population, enhancing monocyte chemotaxis by upregulating CCR2 expression, and enhancing TNF-? expression in macrophages. Finally, targeting AR by topical application of a compound (ASC-J9) that degrades AR protein resulted in accelerated healing, suggesting a potential new therapeutic approach that may lead to better treatment of wound healing. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrophage 
Macrophages (Greek: big eaters, from makros "large" + phagein "eat"; abbr. M?), are a type of white blood cell that engulf and digest cellular debris, foreign substances, microbes, and cancer cells in a process called phagocytosis. Macrophages were first discovered by Élie Metchnikoff, a Russian bacteriologist, in 1884.[1] They are found in essentially all tissues[2] where they patrol for potential pathogens by amoeboid movement. They play a critical role in non-specific defense (innate immunity), and also help initiate specific defense mechanisms (adaptive immunity) by recruiting other immune cells such as lymphocytes. In humans, dysfunctional macrophages cause severe diseases such as chronic granulomatous disease that result in frequent infections. 
Beyond increasing inflammation and stimulating the immune system, macrophages also play an important anti-inflammatory role and can decrease immune reactions through the release of cytokines. Macrophages that encourage inflammation are called M1 macrophages, whereas those that decrease inflammation and encourage tissue repair are called M2 macrophages.[3] This difference is reflected in their metabolism, where macrophages have the unique ability to metabolize one amino acid, arginine, to either a "killer" molecule (nitric oxide) or a "repair" molecule (ornithine). 

http://www.vascularcell.com/content/4/1/13 
Macrophages and angiogenesis: a role for Wnt signaling 
Andrew C Newman1 and Christopher C W Hughes123* 
Macrophages regulate many developmental and pathological processes in both embryonic and adult tissues, and recent studies have shown a significant role in angiogenesis. Similarly, Wnt signaling is fundamental to tissue morphogenesis and also has a role in vascular development. In this review, we summarize recent advances in the field of macrophage-regulated angiogenesis, with a focus on the role of macrophage-derived Wnt ligands. We review data that provide both direct and indirect evidence for macrophage-derived Wnt regulation of physiologic and pathologic angiogenesis. Finally, we propose that Wnt signaling plays a central role in differentiation of tumor associated and wound infiltrating macrophages to a proangiogenic phenotype. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19628766 
NF-kappaB regulates androgen receptor expression and prostate cancer growth. 
Zhang L1, Altuwaijri S, Deng F, Chen L, Lal P, Bhanot UK, Korets R, Wenske S, Lilja HG, Chang C, Scher HI, Gerald WL. 
Author information 
Abstract 
Prostate cancers that progress during androgen-deprivation therapy often overexpress the androgen receptor (AR) and depend on AR signaling for growth. In most cases, increased AR expression occurs without gene amplification and may be due to altered transcriptional regulation. The transcription factor nuclear factor (NF)-kappaB, which is implicated in tumorigenesis, functions as an important downstream substrate of mitogen-activated protein kinase, phosphatidylinositol 3-kinase, AKT, and protein kinase C and plays a role in other cancer-associated signaling pathways. NF-kappaB is an important determinant of prostate cancer clinical biology, and therefore we investigated its role in the regulation of AR expression. We found that NF-kappaB expression in prostate cancer cells significantly increased AR mRNA and protein levels, AR transactivation activity, serum prostate-specific antigen levels, and cell proliferation. NF-kappaB inhibitors decrease AR expression levels, prostate-specific antigen secretion, and proliferation of prostate cancer cells in vitro. Furthermore, inhibitors of NF-kappaB demonstrated anti-tumor activity in androgen deprivation-resistant prostate cancer xenografts. In addition, levels of both NF-kappaB and AR were strongly correlated in human prostate cancer. Our data suggest that NF-kappaB can regulate AR expression in prostate cancer and that NF-kappaB inhibitors may have therapeutic potential.

----------


## Conpecia

> Conpecia, You have some email where you can talk to you and help me build my lotion?
> 
> (TRADUCTOR GOOGLE)
> 
> Thanks


 Luca,

I am only a messenger. I do not know how to build a lotion. Please do research and be safe.

----------


## swissTemplez

Hello I am swissTemples and the guy whose pictures Conpecia posted here.

I will be replying to questions on here since my stuff got posted and some people accused me of things. Let's go:






> Some nut from China started all this on HLH.


 It's been around way longer than that but never made a big impact because people shied away from the initial shock loss it causes to most people.




> The hairline pics look like he shaved it. I've had progress with RU and the hair is all different sizes and lengths, they aren't all the same size and prickly. Those crown pics look a little suspect too. I smell snake oil.


 I would never ever ever shave my temples and neither am I making any profit off of this. So how is it snake oil? I made pictures of my progress on a private forum (phg) and when conpecia asked me if he could post them publicly I agreed.




> The two forum users who've claimed to use this 'treatment' aren't reliable, trustworthy or stable individuals from their past conducts, so I don't believe this for a second.


 I have dumped several thousand dollars into experimental hairloss, used stuff on my head people like you wouldn't even dream about using and yet this is the response some people give me. Typical. Have some humility and appreciate the sacrifices others make in your benefit.




> Im pretty sure swiss scammed the **** out of mark.
> But with that sais swiss is reliable


 Please do tell me how I scammed anyone, especially since I never owned a store or otherwise sold or advertised anything? In fact the only thing I ever did was give away stuff for free out of my own pocket if my scalp was already overloaded with other test substances. Just last month I gave away 3g of Tofacitinib worth 600$ to thomson adams to test it in my stead. Baseless smear campaign cause I'm the guy calling out *real* scamming when I see it.  :Smile: 




> Can't say I see any completely unambiguous evidence of regrowth in either set.
> 
> The hairline shots definitely could be shaved hairs (or depilated hairs) rather than new hairs - there is not really a good enough set of before shots to tell.
> 
> It appears to have caused a pretty serious chemical burn on the temples which could have damaged the hair in a kind of reaction similar to a depilatory cream.


 Yes it did burn my temple. I might have to reduce the chlorine dioxide percentage. Personally I can live with it.

The problem with the growth is that the new hairs shed again if chlorine dioxide application is continued. Hence making it difficult to see progress. I've now started spacing out the application further and it seems to stick now, so hopefully I can make better photos in the future.




> There's a *huge* difference between using well-documented, properly researched, legally approved and licenced medications... And sticking a hazardous chemical on your scalp because three people on an Internet forum with no medical training claim it works with no objective proof.


 And there's a *huge* difference between a bitter hairloss forum user who tries to smear people's reputation and a guy taking the risk of using a potentially dangerous substance on his head and sharing the results. What's that old saying again? Oh right, beggars can't be choosers.

----------


## walrus

> There's a huge difference between using well-documented, properly researched, legally approved and licenced medications... And sticking a hazardous chemical on your scalp because three people on an Internet forum with no medical training claim it works with no objective proof.


 


> And there's a *huge* difference between a bitter hairloss forum user who tries to smear people's reputation and a guy taking the risk of using a potentially dangerous substance on his head and sharing the results. What's that old saying again? Oh right, beggars can't be choosers.


 No need to take things personally swissTemplez. Pentarou has some valid points/concerns, unless of course you *are* medically trained? If this stuff works, then great, we are one step further along, but that does not necessarily mean that it is safe. Some users here might not value their health, but those who do should be aware that as Pentarou stated, these substances are not properly researched. If, for example, they permanently damaged your skin---you are on your own. You can't sue some anonymous guy on the internet because he told you to stick your head in a fire.

----------


## swissTemplez

> No need to take things personally swissTemplez. Pentarou has some valid points/concerns, unless of course you *are* medically trained? If this stuff works, then great, we are one step further along, but that does not necessarily mean that it is safe. Some users here might not value their health, but those who do should be aware that as Pentarou stated, these substances are not properly researched. If, for example, they permanently damaged your skin---you are on your own. You can't sue some anonymous guy on the internet because he told you to stick your head in a fire.


 Things have been taken personally way before I ever posted here. Calling me incompetent on medical and biological matters, wow.

What you or anyone else does is none of my business. I never told anyone to imitate me. In fact I said it plenty of times that it causes sheds and burns the skin.

----------


## Jonathan

> Things have been taken personally way before I ever posted here. Calling me incompetent on medical and biological matters, wow.
> 
> What you or anyone else does is none of my business. I never told anyone to imitate me. In fact I said it plenty of times that it causes sheds and burns the skin.


 Thank you very much swiss!
We are many people that appreciate what you have done. Please try to ignore all the frustrated people on this forum.

----------


## luca10

swissTemplez, Which of these 3 is better? http://www.biovea.com/us/results.aspx?KW=dmso

----------


## swissTemplez

The liquid.

----------


## luca10

Step 1:
Sodium chlorite is 28% and citric acid is 50%. Once they are activated together they will form 100% chlorine dioxide through a chemical reaction. 

Step 2: mix 15 drops of chlorine dioxide and 15 DMSO 99,9%  

Step 3: apply.

This is all I have to do? If anyone can advise me a little.


(Traductor)

----------


## Baby John

> Step 1:
> Sodium chlorite is 28% and citric acid is 50%. Once they are activated together they will form 100% chlorine dioxide through a chemical reaction. 
> 
> Step 2: mix 15 drops of chlorine dioxide and 15 DMSO 99,9%  
> 
> Step 3: apply.
> 
> This is all I have to do? If anyone can advise me a little.
> 
> ...


 No

The solution Swiss is using is CDS, chlorine dioxide at 3000ppm in distilled water.
The activated solution you are referring to in your post is 8x-10x more concentrated than this. If you apply it in those ratios you'll be in the hospital having your scalp grafted...

Please be careful and know exactly what you're doing before experimenting with this.

----------


## Conpecia

luca please do not attempt this until there is a readily available, safe version that several people have used.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> luca please do not attempt this until there is a readily available, safe version that several people have used.


 
Ready and available already exists - CD Liu

----------


## luca10

Thanks for responding, you're right I'll wait for some version of easy access.

----------


## Conpecia

yes but Liu's products were samples sent out to a set number of people. unless you can get in touch with one of those people you can't obtain Liu's product.

also, i worry about luca's language gap and in general about people making their own batches of who knows what and injuring themselves. as the creator of this thread i feel at least some responsibility for what it spurs people to do... 

unless you are experienced in concocting these sorts of experimental treatments and have a strong understanding of the chemistry involved, i would strongly advise you DO NOT make your own CD mixture until we know more about it.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

I agree with you.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

I should not be wrong. I see there a hair to be born ....

http://i.imgur.com/2wmXaC4.jpg

----------


## brunobald

> Today 05:39 AM
>     Futurocabeludo
> 
>         I should not be wrong. I see there a hair to be born ....
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/2wmXaC4.jpg


 1 down 9,999 to go.

----------


## Slam1523

Is there another site someone can lead me to with a more active conversation going on with people testing this by chance?  Id really like to continue following others that are testing this and keeping a log...?

----------


## swissTemplez

> Is there another site someone can lead me to with a more active conversation going on with people testing this by chance?  Id really like to continue following others that are testing this and keeping a log...?


 Yes this thread is pretty big and active http://www.hairlosshelp.net/forums/m...VIEWTMP=Linear

----------


## luca10

swissTemplez, you still have growth?

----------


## Swooping

> swissTemplez, you still have growth?


 Also curious about that.

----------


## luca10

SwissTemplez, number of cd + Dmso drops? 
I got everything.

(Traductor)

----------


## Slam1523

Hey Swiss is there any way you could post the recipe to your concoction just so if anyone wants to try it as well they don't get themselves in trouble by overdoing any of the chemicals?  Thanks so much for that link, I haven't read through it all yet to see if you've already posted your mixture.

----------


## Ulti1

Long time lurker on multiple hairloss forums for years.   I decided to make a account because you guys disgust me.   We are all suppose to work together and solve this.  But just because it came from a different forum you won't let your ego accept that it can work.   Why you guys having battles on which forum is superior?  Did you even read the entire thread over there.  It's very interesting and should deff be looked into.  I'm not saying buy the china dudes product but I mean look into CD in general.  What about the dude who sprayed CD on his slick bald head and grew some hair back !? That was third party and had nothing to do with china guy.  This CD thing is very interesting.  Stop with your egos with your forum wars and all work as a team!!

----------


## robodoc

> I'm not falling for this bollocks
> 
> I was stupid enough to but some CB on the basis of hearsay from another forum and that did absolutely nothing.
> 
> I'd rather lose my hair for free than pay for it.


 Chlorine is very toxic and it MAY cause some regrowth but how long does the regrowth last and if repeated treatments are necessary a person is exposing their general health to a very reliably dangerous chemical, chlorine.  I would not advise this product without long term testing.

----------


## robodoc

We are talking about toxicity not long term side effects of these products.  You are not comparing the same issues, apples and oranges.

----------


## robodoc

You said you repeat the use of the Chlorine Dioxide.  Can you explain how often you use it without it causing the new follicles to fall out? 

What you are doing and posting is huge.  I hope you will not let the usual naysayers impede your testing.  Those types of people are always there.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

I think it has been answered: If I remember correctly you are supposed to cycle 12 times of 20 days on and 10 days off.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> Wow, putting a toxic product on your scalp cause you saw some pics on the internet ... Welcome to the hairloss fora


 
Toxic? The inventor to ingest the lotion. Check this out: 

http://bangpai.taobao.com/grou...qwMO&scene=taobao_shop

----------


## Futurocabeludo

In this photo one can see better, compared to the previous.

http://i.imgur.com/uczMccq.jpg

----------


## Kudu

Guys, how can this work? How has no one thought about this before? Is there any scientific evidence to support this?
Just a few questions that run through my mind when I read this thread. It's frustrating because I would love to believe this works but it defies common sense to me. Even if it did work, would you really want to apply this stuff the rest of your life with it frying your hair?

----------


## Slam1523

If people continue to prove that they can revive dormant follicles, how could you not use this option?  I got pretty pumped over derma rolling, and nothing came from it, but obviously that doesn't mean this won't work.  Sometimes it can be the most ridiculous thing that ends up being the solution to a problem.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> Guys, how can this work? How has no one thought about this before? Is there any scientific evidence to support this?
> Just a few questions that run through my mind when I read this thread. It's frustrating because I would love to believe this works but it defies common sense to me. Even if it did work, would you really want to apply this stuff the rest of your life with it frying your hair?


 
This is not minox. Not used 2x / day and forever.
.

It uses 1x / day (20 consecutive days and 10 days of rest) months. 
12 cycles (1 year) and finished the treatment the hair will, will grow naturally. 
It CURE, said the Chinese inventor

----------


## walrus

Yes, toxic.

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorin...nd_supplements

----------


## Futurocabeludo

Another angle and a few hairs to emerge ….

http://hlh.me/

----------


## Slam1523

It seems like early on this thread turned into calling people's integrity into question.  A lot of the "heavy hitters", or the more knowledgeable really haven't chimed in a lot regarding their take of this...  Is it because those trailing haven't used the product long enough?  Most believe it's snake oil?  What is it?  I know some say toxicity may be an issue, but to what degree?  What are people afraid of with using this that have a familiarity with it?  Maybe nobody really knows the answer, but with the pictures that have been posted in here and in HLH it seems like for the most part everyone using it is experiencing a significant shed, and regrowth to some degree almost immediately...  This sounds exciting to me but this thread has somewhat died, and if like to hear more about everyone's thoughts about this.

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> It seems like early on this thread turned into calling people's integrity into question.  A lot of the "heavy hitters", or the more knowledgeable really haven't chimed in a lot regarding their take of this...  Is it because those trailing haven't used the product long enough?  Most believe it's snake oil?  What is it?  I know some say toxicity may be an issue, but to what degree?  What are people afraid of with using this that have a familiarity with it?  Maybe nobody really knows the answer, but with the pictures that have been posted in here and in HLH it seems like for the most part everyone using it is experiencing a significant shed, and regrowth to some degree almost immediately...  This sounds exciting to me but this thread has somewhat died, and if like to hear more about everyone's thoughts about this.


 
There is something going on... we need to figure out the mechanism and explore similar but more effective chemicals..

We need to alert at least 10 hair loss researchers of what is going on.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> There is something going on... we need to figure out the mechanism and explore similar but more effective chemicals..
> 
> We need to alert at least 10 hair loss researchers of what is going on.


 


You're right - There is something going on ... 

Let's wait a while and see others using CD 
Liu.

----------


## FearTheLoss

The photos show unrealistic hair growth at only 25 days. Hair doesn't grow that fast even if it wasn't miniaturized.

----------


## Slam1523

> The photos show unrealistic hair growth at only 25 days. Hair doesn't grow that fast even if it wasn't miniaturized.


 I understand that, but what do you believe those using a home made solution claiming to be experiencing regrowth hope to gain with their claims?  For example Swiss temples...  The pics show new hairs, he says he's noticing new hairs, and he's not pushing anyone to buy a product he can profit off of...  How would it help him in the slightest to make any of it up if he isn't going to make a dime off of it?

----------


## hellouser

> The photos show unrealistic hair growth at only 25 days. Hair doesn't grow that fast even if it wasn't miniaturized.


 Incorrect. Hair grows approximately 1cm/month. The length he's got is far less than that in the 25 days.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> The photos show unrealistic hair growth at only 25 days. Hair doesn't grow that fast even if it wasn't miniaturized.


 
Incorrect. Are not 25 days. 
1 cycle (20/10 + application / rest) = 30 days 

* The photo shows the result of one cycle + 15 days

----------


## FearTheLoss

If it takes such a short time period to work, why don't you prove it to a doctor or by using a highly respected member of the forum?

----------


## hellouser

> If it takes such a short time period to work, why don't you prove it to a doctor or by using a highly respected member of the forum?


 Swisstemples *IS* a respected member of the forums.

----------


## Scoots

> Swisstemples *IS* a respected member of the forums.


 This. Despite his lack of activity here and whatever feuds you've heard rumors of, he has researched chlorine dioxide (and a host of other potential hairloss solutions) extensively, trialed more potential solutions than you can count, and wouldn't have any reason to con any of us with these results. Especially since this is a very cheap substance to acquire on our own.

----------


## walrus

> If it takes such a short time period to work, why don't you prove it to a doctor


 No responsible doctor would advocate someone applying bleach they bought from a dodgy character on internet to their head.

----------


## FearTheLoss

Swisstemples is indeed, however, we need more than one person to vouch for this. Furthermore, studies on safety need to be done as this is a very dangerous chemical.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> If it takes such a short time period to work, why don't you prove it to a doctor or by using a highly respected member of the forum?


 The doctors do not understand this mechanism. Respectable Forum Members only discuss minox finasteride, Duta and keto. 
With this lotion these drugs are not necessary.

----------


## Slam1523

Was there ever a time a well respected doctor would've advocated that one cut the lens of their eye in order to use lasers to burn an eyeball back into a certain shape to correct an impairment in ones vision before laser eye surgery?  I feel like there's a safe way of going about everything, but that doesn't mean this could be the start of something helpful!

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> Swisstemples is indeed, however, we need more than one person to vouch for this. Furthermore, studies on safety need to be done as this is a very dangerous chemical.


 http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/a...psbce1f8c8.jpg

I'm not in the photo. A CD that dealt with Liu in china. 

'You say he is a dangerous chemical, Why? 

Dangerous and this !!!! progress .....

----------


## Morbo

So what are we supposed to see? I see a balding guy. It's pretty useless without a before picture. Besides, the dark background is quite deceiving.

And with the earlier pictures. I barely see any progress at all. I see a bald guy taking pictures of miniaturized hairs from different angles. I mean nothing that I would call groundbreaking let alone a cure.

----------


## NeedHairASAP

for the last time, one of the forum member with too much time on their hands needs to alert some researches of this...

----------


## jjo

so can someone post the exact things to buy and how to mix.. i'm not sure yet if i'll do it but i sure don't want to burn my head off because of the wrong formula

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> so can someone post the exact things to buy and how to mix.. i'm not sure yet if i'll do it but i sure don't want to burn my head off because of the wrong formula


 May be purchased here. I use a sample courtesy inventor. 

http://en.agreetao.com/taobao/view/id/35304757301

----------


## FearTheLoss

> May be purchased here. I use a sample courtesy inventor. 
> 
> http://en.agreetao.com/taobao/view/id/35304757301


 HAHAHHAHHA this is the biggest joke I have ever seen. NOBODY purchase this junk, unless you wanna just give away your hard earned money to a snake oil salesman.

----------


## Slam1523

> HAHAHHAHHA this is the biggest joke I have ever seen. NOBODY purchase this junk, unless you wanna just give away your hard earned money to a snake oil salesman.


 Is there a reason why you're pushing so hard against this?  I mean you've criticized a man that is testing a home made product on his own body for being a liar.  What does he stand to gain by lying?  He didn't say buy a product, yet you questioned his integrity...?  Maybe this stuff doesn't work, but a user currently using a tester of this product sent a link to another user asking how to avoid any health issues by trying this.  Maybe it won't work, but if $80 breaks anyone in this forum's back financially by trying this, they have much bigger problems than getting conned by a snake oil salesman.  I understand your hesitation using this yourself, but you don't need to call people attempting to help you defaming names when they really don't stand to gain a penny by their comments.

----------


## FearTheLoss

You don't know what people stand to gain or who they are. This is the internet, anyone can make an account and claim to be anything or anyone. None of you have any idea what kind of side effects this could cause and yet you are quick to jump on it after seeing a few dodgy pictures.

----------


## Seuxin

> So what are we supposed to see? I see a balding guy. It's pretty useless without a before picture. Besides, the dark background is quite deceiving.
> 
> And with the earlier pictures. I barely see any progress at all. I see a bald guy taking pictures of miniaturized hairs from different angles. I mean nothing that I would call groundbreaking let alone a cure.


 I agree man, this picture is impressive but it will be good to have a "before" treatments pîctures. Somes person have this regrowth with high dosage minoxidil...

----------


## Futurocabeludo

Had never seen anything like this in this area (crown edge)

http://hlh.me/

----------


## Kudu

Well the thing that makes me suspicious was when I stumbled across something with that dude Habemus using CD saying he was getting "amazing results". I'll try and find it again, but that's the gist of it.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> Is there a reason why you're pushing so hard against this?  I mean you've criticized a man that is testing a home made product on his own body for being a liar.  What does he stand to gain by lying?  He didn't say buy a product, yet you questioned his integrity...?  Maybe this stuff doesn't work, but a user currently using a tester of this product sent a link to another user asking how to avoid any health issues by trying this.  Maybe it won't work, but if $80 breaks anyone in this forum's back financially by trying this, they have much bigger problems than getting conned by a snake oil salesman.  I understand your hesitation using this yourself, but you don't need to call people attempting to help you defaming names when they really don't stand to gain a penny by their comments.


 
 I agree with you. There will always be someone who has this profile of ignorant. Anyway .....

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> Well the thing that makes me suspicious was when I stumbled across something with that dude Habemus using CD saying he was getting "amazing results". I'll try and find it again, but that's the gist of it.


 

With the product I used had good results, was my assessment of myself. Over time, after starting them, lost earnings. Now, I'm with CD and see improvements. It takes more time to see better.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> Was there ever a time a well respected doctor would've advocated that one cut the lens of their eye in order to use lasers to burn an eyeball back into a certain shape to correct an impairment in ones vision before laser eye surgery?  I feel like there's a safe way of going about everything, but that doesn't mean this could be the start of something helpful!


 FYI:
Radial Keratotomy evolved into a relatively safe and refined procedure known today as lasik eye surgery.  If memory serves me, about 70% of bending of light rays occurs at the cornea, so in patients with varying degrees of myopia and astigmatism, RK was successful in flattening the cornea allowing light rays to form their focal point on the retina.  There were bumps in the road though.  Some doctors were doing the early surgeries on both eyes.  They began doing only one eye at a time after an RK patient came to an abrupt stop in his car before his eyes completely healed.  He lost the contents of both eyes.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## Slam1523

> You don't know what people stand to gain or who they are. This is the internet, anyone can make an account and claim to be anything or anyone. None of you have any idea what kind of side effects this could cause and yet you are quick to jump on it after seeing a few dodgy pictures.


 I love your comment of I don't know what people stand to gain, or who they are is very applicable for me, but not applicable to you.  How is it you seem to know the answers to both, but nobody else can.  The difference is although i'm not jumping into it, I choose to think people for the most part are good, and trying to help.  Not everyone is I get that, but you have decided that even if someone is trying to help you're going to run them out of town cause you're the boss.  Your blanket statements believe it or not apply to you, but you seem to be oblivious to that, and want to question everyone's integrity.  As I said, maybe its nothing, maybe it's harmful, and obviously liu is doing this for money, but that doesn't mean everyone is, and i'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt first before jumping into calling them liars, and driving them away.

----------


## walrus

^ http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de.../english/naive

----------


## Slam1523

> ^ http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de.../english/naive


 Sorry Walrus not everyone can be as well rounded, and knowledgeable as you.  I can see why a man like you would throw egotistical comments like naive around.  I mean when you're as battle tested as you are why wouldn't you?  I can't help but turn red in the cheeks for saying people don't have to try something immediately, but on that same note don't need to make condescending remarks about everyone that could honestly be trying.  That is naive, but like I said when it comes from an individual who has in fact been around the block and back such as yourself, those comments really resonate!  Touche'!

----------


## walrus

> Maybe it won't work, but if $80 breaks anyone in this forum's back financially by trying this, they have much bigger problems than getting conned by a snake oil salesman.


 It is this very attitude (eagerness to accept poor, or lack of evidence) that means snake oil salesmen will never go out of business.

"Maybe it will just work this time. I mean, people lying on the internet? Why would someone do that?"

----------


## Slam1523

> It is this very attitude (eagerness to accept poor, or lack of evidence) that means snake oil salesman will never go out of business.
> 
> "Maybe it will just work this time. I mean, people lying on the internet? Why would someone do that?"


 If the fact that I haven't purchased any of this, or attempted to make my own is any indication of just how eager I am, then I guess you're right...  I apologize for misunderstanding what eager meant...  I was under the impression that wait and see was a little different, but again you've got some years under your belt so I'm going to just go ahead and let you speak for me...  My bad walrus...  What can you expect though I'm naive!

----------


## Conpecia

everyone stfu and wait for more accounts and photographic results from reputable users before making a decision for or against the effectiveness and safety of this treatment. it is literally that simple. this is why i hate this forum. if you are not interested or think it's a scam that's fine but please do not post anymore "its totes snake oil brahz" bs in this thread.

----------


## bigentries

So Habemus came back to shill another treatment?

----------


## Morbo

> everyone stfu and wait for more accounts and photographic results from reputable users before making a decision for or against the effectiveness and safety of this treatment. it is literally that simple. this is why i hate this forum.* if you are not interested or think it's a scam that's fine but please do not post anymore "its totes snake oil brahz" bs in this thread*.


 Why is a skeptical opinion less worth than an overly gullible opinion believing every kwak and monthly forum hype (I mean let's get real we have these kind of threads every month) without a single evidence? FFS we have guys in this thread wanting to spray a dangerous toxin on their head because 'some Chinese guy' says it will regrow their hair.
I say if you don't like opposing opinions just don't post on a discussion forum.

----------


## Conpecia

> Why is a skeptical opinion less worth than than an overly gullible opinion believing every kwak and monthly forum hype (I mean let's get real we have these kind of threads every month) without a single evidence?
> I say if you don't like opposing opinions just don't post on a discussion forum.


 There's skepticism and there's "this is snake oil." Big difference. Saying it's snake oil at this point is also making a claim without evidence. I personally am skeptical of this treatment. I'm not calling it a snake oil, though. And I'm WAY less skeptical since SwissTemples is one of the key supporters and has personally tried it on himself and posted pics of regrowth. 

Also, will someone please explain to me how anyone is going to profit off of this? You can make your own mixture from any source you want. Wake up.

----------


## hellouser

> Why is a skeptical opinion less worth than an overly gullible opinion believing every kwak and monthly forum hype (I mean let's get real we have these kind of threads every month) without a single evidence? FFS we have guys in this thread wanting to spray a dangerous toxin on their head because 'some Chinese guy' says it will regrow their hair.
> I say if you don't like opposing opinions just don't post on a discussion forum.


 Why are you dismissing Swisstemples evidence?

----------


## Slam1523

> Why is a skeptical opinion less worth than an overly gullible opinion believing every kwak and monthly forum hype (I mean let's get real we have these kind of threads every month) without a single evidence? FFS we have guys in this thread wanting to spray a dangerous toxin on their head because 'some Chinese guy' says it will regrow their hair.
> I say if you don't like opposing opinions just don't post on a discussion forum.


 That's not what anyone has said in fact just the opposite, neither opinion is worth more than the other...  Bottom line is nobody's for or against opinion is relevant until more reputable users are able to post solid evidence showing a positive effect, without harmful side effects...  Bottom line is we take a wait and see approach, but my point was why are people being so critical of the users doing it?  Maybe it won't work but nobody knows yet and you don't have to sit and call everyone's integrity into question until proof is displayed

----------


## Morbo

> *That's not what anyone has said in fact just the opposite, neither opinion is worth more than the other.*..  Bottom line is nobody's for or against opinion is relevant until more reputable users are able to post solid evidence showing a positive effect, without harmful side effects...  Bottom line is we take a wait and see approach, but my point was why are people being so critical of the users doing it?  Maybe it won't work but nobody knows yet and you don't have to sit and call everyone's integrity into question until proof is displayed


 Yer, he literally says if _"you think it's a scam don't post."_




> but my point was why are people being so critical of the users doing it?  Maybe it won't work but nobody knows yet and you don't have to sit and call everyone's integrity into question until proof is displayed


 Ehmm, because people are risking their heath to use a toxic product which has no scientific or even physical evidence backing it? Not because they have clear proof it will work but out of cheer desperation. What kind of person would you be if you wouldn't disadvise them?

----------


## bigentries

> Why are you dismissing Swisstemples evidence?


 Swisstemples is a different story

He is presenting evidence, asking people to be extremely careful, he is admitting what he is doing is dangerous. And his evidence is completely plausible and mediocre at this point. One guy posted at least 5 inches of growth in 15 days, and another one said that in 21 Lui "saved his future"

The fact that the Chinese dude and some of his "trialists" lashed against him shows they've been hiding something from the beginning.

At this point only swiss has showed something and in his last report he claimed he lost all the progress at the moment

----------


## nameless

Swiss is the one I'm paying attention to.

----------


## Gjm127

Isn't there a chance that the people advocating this are actually the Chinese themselves? Heck he even linked you to a Chinese site for us to buy the product from there. Just look at the way they're writing those comments, clearly English is not their first language, they definitely look like they're Chinese.

I'll be popcorning my way in this thread though.

----------


## Slam1523

> Yer, he literally says if _"you think it's a scam don't post."_
> 
> How many people in this thread that have not tried this have said this is bound to work?  I haven't read one yet...  How many that have not tried this are claiming it is a scam?  Plenty!  It gets old when people just jump in here to pound in as much negativity as possible!
> 
> 
> 
> Ehmm, because people are risking their heath to use a toxic product which has no scientific or even physical evidence backing it? Not because they have clear proof it will work but out of cheer desperation. What kind of person would you be if you wouldn't disadvise them?


 I understand what you're saying, but if you've read through this thread you'll soon realize that people are telling everyone to not jump into doing this because it can be dangerous.  Let the more experienced members comfortable with mixing and trialing things like this continue their experiment before jumping into it.  Not one of those Conpecia has mentioned is telling everyone to hurry into this.  Nobody is saying do it or you're a loser.  Everyone is saying this looks like those trying may be getting results but lets take a wait and see approach to this. 

I apologize for arguing over this, I'm just going to wait and see what swiss and other highly regarded members are able to achieve with this.  I would like to thank those who have been willing to take risks for the benefit of others despite the backlash some people automatically give.

----------


## nameless

> Isn't there a chance that the people advocating this are actually the Chinese themselves? Heck he even linked you to a Chinese site for us to buy the product from there. Just look at the way they're writing those comments, clearly English is not their first language, they definitely look like they're Chinese.
> 
> I'll be popcorning my way in this thread though.


 
Dude, Swiss is not a bad guy. Please stop!

----------


## Gari Baldi

> You're right - There is something going on ... 
> 
> Let's wait a while and see others using CD 
> Liu.


 Anybody else noticed that "Futurocabeludo" signed this post with "Liu" ?

Hello Mr Liu !  :Big Grin:

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> Anybody else noticed that "Futurocabeludo" signed this post with "Liu" ?
> 
> Hello Mr Liu !


 you're not serious and enjoys creating confusion. 
The Chinese website that was copied from SwissTemplez put in another Forum. 

SwissTemplez 
"10/10/2014 4:40 AM-He is selling it in China, if you want to import it you can get it here: 
http://en.agreetao.com/taobao/view/id/35304757301 

I personally think the normal chlorine dioxide works too and is cheaper though. That's what I use. "


Visit page 74 of the Forum and is there another address. 

You do not need to figure clown and write what he wrote. I am Portuguese. The Chinese is another.

----------


## nameless

I'm not saying that this stuff works because I don't know if it works or not yet. But Swiss is definitely not a bad guy.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> Is there a reason why you're pushing so hard against this?  I mean you've criticized a man that is testing a home made product on his own body for being a liar.  What does he stand to gain by lying?  He didn't say buy a product, yet you questioned his integrity...?  Maybe this stuff doesn't work, but a user currently using a tester of this product sent a link to another user asking how to avoid any health issues by trying this.  Maybe it won't work, but if $80 breaks anyone in this forum's back financially by trying this, they have much bigger problems than getting conned by a snake oil salesman.  I understand your hesitation using this yourself, but you don't need to call people attempting to help you defaming names when they really don't stand to gain a penny by their comments.


 
Thank you for helping in this matter. The translation that do not give the best sense of the want to convey. 

Another, because I wrote Liu CD (Liu lotion Cd) Until greeted me - Hello Mr Liu! 

Are crazy !!! 

Anyway ....

----------


## Slam1523

I do want to make it clear I am in no way advocating that this should be tested by everyone.  Like conpecia has said maybe there's something to this, but remember it can be harmful so don't just start messing with this cluelessly until we know more...  My only point is enough of the criticisms to all those currently trying this in someway and let's wait and see...  Those trying this are doing us a favor, and until they start making their own and selling it there is no reason to think they're snake oil salesman...  Can't wait to hear more results though!

----------


## Futurocabeludo

I have hair gray / white. I have some pictures and see some black hairs grow in a bald area. This is weird ... 

http://hlh.me/

 (I use lotion Liu CD)

----------


## Swooping

any more updates guys?

----------


## Scientalk56

another bullshit snake oil thing...

----------


## ilostdemall

Futurocabeludo is Habemus. The guy that was pushing that snake oil cg210, like crazy and now he is pushing this... Besides that, cd may be working since some reputable members have shown results...

----------


## Kudu

> Futurocabeludo is Habemus. The guy that was pushing that snake oil cg210, like crazy and now he is pushing this...


 Hahaha! That makes so much sense! It's funny because I saw that he was using it on another site, and it made me suspicious. But who knows, I'm not trying it that's for sure.

----------


## The Alchemist

> Futurocabeludo is Habemus. The guy that was pushing that snake oil cg210, like crazy and now he is pushing this... Besides that, cd may be working since some reputable members have shown results...


 Exactly.  Same crappy photos showing "regrowth".  LOL what a joke

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> Futurocabeludo is Habemus. The guy that was pushing that snake oil cg210, like crazy and now he is pushing this... Besides that, cd may be working since some reputable members have shown results...


 Truth. I used some things I had won and I lost them after stopping. 

Do a trial with a sample provided by the inventor. 

The lotion initial cause hair loss, but before long he is reborn with more force. 

Later show the achieved result.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

This test concerns me because no longer will need to use drugs as minox, finasteride, dutasteride, keto and other less used. 

Needless to wear forever. One year (12 cycles) and just (words of the inventor). 

What better ???

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> Exactly.  Same crappy photos showing "regrowth".  LOL what a joke


 Low quality pictures? Show me yours. I always want to see your quality Lol 

Jealous of my progress ... phew

----------


## noisette

I hope this CD Liu's lotion really helps ... Let's see  :Smile:

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> I hope this CD Liu's lotion really helps ... Let's see


 Agree. It takes more time to see results. 
I will finish the 2nd cycle after tomorrow and for now, I like what I see.


 (CD Liu's lotion) - http://hlh.me/

----------


## inbrugge

i want to believe!

man, i hope something comes out of this.  :Frown:  some of these pics are promising!

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> i want to believe!
> 
> man, i hope something comes out of this.  some of these pics are promising!


 Thank you! 

CD did stop (end of cycle) .In the next days will see better results. 
I pause for 15 days (5 more than before) and new document with photos.


(CD Liu's lotion) - http://hlh.me/

----------


## Futurocabeludo

Completed two cycles and 10 day break. 

This looks promising ....:-) 

http://imgur.com/ByHZYZs

----------


## JimmyHairte

> Completed two cycles and 10 day break. 
> 
> This looks promising ....:-) 
> 
> http://imgur.com/ByHZYZs


 Something about the lighting in that picture looks shady as hell. Your scalp is unevenly shaded but the "new" hairs all glow like snaplights all the way to the roots. Looks like you just shopped some white lines to some random pores.

I agree with most people here that Liu and this Futurocabeludo guy appear way too scammy (I'm not a native English speaker myself but broken/gtranslated English like that always rings alarm bells for me). Swiss might be legit though, especially since he doesn't urge you to buy "that one concoction made by this guy" and posted decent photos. Has anyone tried the pure DMSO + CD treatment yet?

Couldn't it be possible that Swiss (or whoever did it first) found a legit treatment and now some scammers like these two try to make some quick money out of it? It's kind of sad because it discredits a possibly viable treatment.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> Something about the lighting in that picture looks shady as hell. Your scalp is unevenly shaded but the "new" hairs all glow like snaplights all the way to the roots. Looks like you just shopped some white lines to some random pores.
> 
> I agree with most people here that Liu and this Futurocabeludo guy appear way too scammy (I'm not a native English speaker myself but broken/gtranslated English like that always rings alarm bells for me). Swiss might be legit though, especially since he doesn't urge you to buy "that one concoction made by this guy" and posted decent photos. Has anyone tried the pure DMSO + CD treatment yet?
> 
> Couldn't it be possible that Swiss (or whoever did it first) found a legit treatment and now some scammers like these two try to make some quick money out of it? It's kind of sad because it discredits a possibly viable treatment.


 That your comment about me is pathetic. 

I just do the test as well as others who received sample.

----------


## Conpecia

> Completed two cycles and 10 day break. 
> 
> This looks promising ....:-) 
> 
> http://imgur.com/ByHZYZs


 
holy shit man that looks pretty good if you zoom in. amazing how thick those hairs are, are they all from the initial shed or was that slick?


swiss's hair is looking better, the smaller hairs are maturing. i definitely think we're on to something here but only time will tell.

----------


## Conpecia

> Something about the lighting in that picture looks shady as hell. Your scalp is unevenly shaded but the "new" hairs all glow like snaplights all the way to the roots. Looks like you just shopped some white lines to some random pores.
> 
> I agree with most people here that Liu and this Futurocabeludo guy appear way too scammy (I'm not a native English speaker myself but broken/gtranslated English like that always rings alarm bells for me). Swiss might be legit though, especially since he doesn't urge you to buy "that one concoction made by this guy" and posted decent photos. Has anyone tried the pure DMSO + CD treatment yet?
> 
> Couldn't it be possible that Swiss (or whoever did it first) found a legit treatment and now some scammers like these two try to make some quick money out of it? It's kind of sad because it discredits a possibly viable treatment.


 
nah man swiss found it after liu actually. he just discovered it this summer, liu has known about this for a couple years at least hence the patents and the fact that he has photos from chinese trials. trust me swiss would be furious if this was his treatment and it was getting jacked like that. he'd be all over these guys on this forum. 

summersnow tried dmso and cd, he regrew all of his hair from what appeared to be rapidly diffusing hairloss. but it bleached his hair i believe.

----------


## joachim

> That your comment about me is pathetic. 
> 
> I just do the test as well as others who received sample.


 may i ask you how old you are?

----------


## hellouser

> Something about the lighting in that picture looks shady as hell. Your scalp is unevenly shaded but the "new" hairs all glow like snaplights all the way to the roots. Looks like you just shopped some white lines to some random pores.
> 
> I agree with most people here that Liu and this Futurocabeludo guy appear way too scammy (I'm not a native English speaker myself but broken/gtranslated English like that always rings alarm bells for me). Swiss might be legit though, *especially since he doesn't urge you to buy "that one concoction made by this guy"* and posted decent photos. Has anyone tried the pure DMSO + CD treatment yet?
> 
> Couldn't it be possible that Swiss (or whoever did it first) found a legit treatment and now some scammers like these two try to make some quick money out of it? It's kind of sad because it discredits a possibly viable treatment.


 Nobody is urging anyone to buy any concoction. The stuff can be made on your own without a prescription. There's no 'scam' involved here.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> may i ask you how old you are?


 I have 64. I'll still time to recover hair?  :Smile:

----------


## bigentries

Just to aware people

Read this thread before believing anyone that futurocabeludo dude claims

https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...=13194&page=21

He was an snake oil shill well identified by the company he was pushing.

----------


## rambo007

SwissTemples posted new photo today on HLH. Check this out:

http://i.imgur.com/QMgcRk4.jpg%3Cbr%20/%3E

His words:



> Again, I am using 50% dmso and 50% CD. And there are now hairs where I haven't had any in a long time. Considering I've been doing this for a few weeks longer than most people here I can definitely say it is working but very slowly so. Due to the random sheds every now and then it can be disheartening to not really see better results. But if you take a while off you WILL see new hairs and then hopefully continue.

----------


## JimmyHairte

With SwissTemples' help I put together some of the information in that big-ass thread, in case anyone is interested to try it out themselves. Please keep in mind that this has nothing to do with Liu's mixture which I believe to be a rip-off. Also watch out for shills. Not really hard to spot them.




> What to buy: 
> 1. Chlorine Dioxide Solution (CDS) at 3000ppm 
> e.g. http://phhealth.co.uk/products...water-purification-kit (The one Swiss uses) 
> http://www.amazon.de/Chlordiox...ezeptur/dp/B00MHP871K/ (The one I intend to use) 
> 2. DMSO 
> e.g. http://www.biovea.com/us/produ...agrance-Free-8oz-237ml (The one Swiss uses, available from biovea pretty much all around the world) 
> This will last for approximately 2000 (at 0.1ml) to 500 (at 0.4ml) applications, depending on how much you use. Enough for several years. 
> 
> How to mix: 
> ...


 The known experiences with this (or similar in summersnow's case) treatment:



> SwissTemplez:
> http://imgur.com/snZ4I8K,2pvhUEs,fCo...0SSs,QMgcRk4#0
> 
> As I said before the 3 on 3 off is keeping the stronger hairs around but the weaker ones still shed randomly. This shot has been taken after 3 days off now, you can see the weak hairs if you zoom in and also the longer black hairs. Stuff at the top has also gotten longer. Bit of a crappy shot but I'm too busy to go ocd right now. 
> 
> Again, I am using 50% dmso and 50% CD. And there are now hairs where I haven't had any in a long time. Considering I've been doing this for a few weeks longer than most people here I can definitely say it is working but very slowly so. Due to the random sheds every now and then it can be disheartening to not really see better results. But if you take a while off you WILL see new hairs and then hopefully continue.


 


> summersnow:
> http://imgur.com/vsTr7zy,dbXAEjl,aeY...Z1td5q,VkAP5ug
> 
> That's not a problem Ahadabans but i am afraid the pictures don't do my hair justice and I wasn't planning on breaking my camera and losing the September pics. In real life my hair has thickened to the point where family and friends have been brave enough to say that they can't get over how thick my hair has gotten again I cannot prove that as I can't bring them on the forum as witnesses as this is a forum and not court lol. 
> 
> I have been using the Theradome 10 months this Saturday. Naturally enough i can not prove that this was not the work of theradome kicking in. But i know for myself it was not Theradome, i don't believe in coincidence. Theradome has not done a tap for my hair visually prior to my experiment, it has not done anything for my psoriasis either. 
> 
> I still use the theradome 2 twice a week there have been a 1 or 2 weeks where i only used it once a week because i forgot. I cannot and will not give theradome any credit for this when it was clear to me my hair changed dramatically within a few weeks of the experiment, and yes Bigentries that flies in the face of what you believe to be possible but i am reporting my experience and i am not here to waste time trying to convince you of what is real and what is fiction. 
> 
> ...


 All from this thread: http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...VIEWTMP=Linear

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> Just to aware people
> 
> Read this thread before believing anyone that futurocabeludo dude claims
> 
> https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...=13194&page=21
> 
> He was an snake oil shill well identified by the company he was pushing.


 *You still paranoid. What must have used another treatment? 

It appears that something new and better results vc does not change? 

Pufff .... pathetic*

----------


## Futurocabeludo

If you guys consider swiss reputable one  member, read this:


*The hair is probably only "glowy" because it's white and Unlike the scalp in some kind of light because it's sticking out. I do not think he's trying to fake it. 
Also I do not think Liu is trying to scam anyone, his stuff seems to work and if he wants to sell it at a bit more than self mixed stuff Then why not, that's the free market. The free samples he casette October Seems a nice touch too. Have not seen this done before.*

Enough for now

----------


## David7

meh , to many people post incredible stuff with low  post's .. reserved.

----------


## JimmyHairte

> meh , to many people post incredible stuff with low  post's .. reserved.


 I'm only citing and posting sources. Never mind my post count :P

Potentially awesome stuff like this always draws lurkers like me from their holes.

----------


## joachim

> I have 64. I'll still time to recover hair?


 
aha. so you are 64 years old, have grey hair and probably you have been bald (NW7) for the last two decades or more. so i can assume you accepted your baldness and lived your life anyway. and now you come to the forum to try out experimental topicals to get back a few hairs, and even started a log to convince other members.

yes, that totally makes sense. worrying about hairloss with 64 years, when you have been bald for decades. you clearly have no financial interest in this.

LOL

----------


## Futurocabeludo

Yes! Truth. Total *interest finaceiros ....* 

Only post read more pathetic than the other. Anyway ... 

Lol


http://imgur.com/u1zOLcL

----------


## rambo007

> I'm only citing and posting sources. Never mind my post count :P
> 
> Potentially awesome stuff like this always draws lurkers like me from their holes.


 I've been lurker as well, I registered mostly because of latest news about Histogen and Replicel, check out my posts  :Smile:  

I posted here because I thought the new update of SwissTemples on HLH is interesting. However, I am also sceptical about this treatment.

----------


## JimmyHairte

> Yes! Truth. Total *interest finaceiros ....* 
> 
> Only post read more pathetic than the other. Anyway ... 
> 
> Lol
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/u1zOLcL


 Ok, guess I have to apologize.

I just compared that pic with the one I bashed earlier (which you removed for some reason?). The hairs actually match up. So unless those are two really good shops they actually seem legit.

Congrats on the progress then!


Edit: What I'm talking about**: http://i.imgur.com/ubDLa3J.jpg
So, sorry about that. But still, as I said on HLH: Liu's treatment might be legit but it's still a rip-off in my eyes :]

----------


## Futurocabeludo

Ok, apologies accepted  :Smile:  

In the next 10 days stop (end of 2nd cycle) you will see more progress, I hope ..

----------


## noisette

> Ok, apologies accepted  
> 
> In the next 10 days stop (end of 2nd cycle) you will see more progress, I hope ..


 I hope you will have a full head of hair in few months ... if this treatment works, we can try ourselves to test it.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> I hope you will have a full head of hair in few months ... if this treatment works, we can try ourselves to test it.


 The inventor says yes. 
Left this text in another forum:

*Hair loss treatment is difficult, because hair loss is actually the aging phenomenon. Current research on anti-aging issues in human medicine is to follow a single variable approach, only with an anti-aging drug mechanism. Therefore, the basically no progress in anti-aging treatment. Similar to the ****tail therapy for AIDS, my product in the course of treatment for hair loss, played two mechanisms. 
These two mechanisms are indispensable: first, clean out old cells, leaving specific space for the new young cells. Rejuvenate senescent cells cannot, in accordance with the statement of the second law of thermodynamics, senescent cells constantly entropy towards death. But if there is no drug to take the initiative to clean up, its death process is too slow, which affect the regeneration of new cells. 
Second, starting near the stem cell regeneration, regeneration of cell life is starting from scratch. After regeneration is complete, the cells will be young cells, if all the cells of the hair follicle cells are replaced with younger, hair will recover completely.* 

What do you think of this?

I am enthusiastic.)

----------


## DanWS

> What do you think of this?
> 
> I am enthusiastic.)


 I think your pictures are awful. Look at this http://i.imgur.com/ubDLa3J.jpg - the before and after photos are taken from 2 different angles. The lighting is also atrocious in both and different in each picture. Your scalp looks black in the second. It's laughable that you expect people to take your "results" seriously at this stage. I also noticed that you're strangely defensive when you've been questioned about your photos so far in this thread. I wonder why that is. LOL @ you managing to get an apology from someone, though. Classic bullshit artist stuff right there.

Either post photos with consistent lighting and angles or piss off.

----------


## walrus

> The inventor says yes. 
> Left this text in another forum:
> 
> * hair loss is actually the aging phenomenon. Current research on anti-aging issues in human medicine is to follow a single variable approach, only with an anti-aging drug mechanism. Therefore, the basically no progress in anti-aging treatment. Similar to the ****tail therapy for AIDS, my product in the course of treatment for hair loss, played two mechanisms. 
> *
> 
> What do you think of this?


 Total nonsense. Did he really just compare this to AIDS therapy?

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> I think your pictures are awful. Look at this http://i.imgur.com/ubDLa3J.jpg - the before and after photos are taken from 2 different angles. The lighting is also atrocious in both and different in each picture. Your scalp looks black in the second. It's laughable that you expect people to take your "results" seriously at this stage. I also noticed that you're strangely defensive when you've been questioned about your photos so far in this thread. I wonder why that is. LOL @ you managing to get an apology from someone, though. Classic bullshit artist stuff right there.
> 
> Either post photos with consistent lighting and angles or piss off.


 these photos are not the before and after. 
Has a difference of a few hours. What differs is the exposure to the sun and the angle. 

Your feedback is somebody unintelligent. 
Anyway ....

----------


## DanWS

> these photos are not the before and after. 
> Has a difference of a few hours. What differs is the exposure to the sun and the angle. 
> 
> Your feedback is somebody unintelligent. 
> Anyway ....


 Look, if you're going to call somebody unintelligent, don't do it in a sentence that makes no sense.

Like I said, post some consistent photos where the lighting and camera angles are the same, and where your scalp isn't black, or do one.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

You have doubts that this lotion does grow new hair? 

There are dark and how my young hair in the past. 

http://i.imgur.com/36hi2dZ.jpg

Keep it simple and wait. Time will tell, no need to angle, light and position. 

see you soon

----------


## DanWS

> You have doubts that this lotion does grow new hair? 
> 
> There are dark and how my young hair in the past. 
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/36hi2dZ.jpg
> 
> Keep it simple and wait. Time will tell, no need to angle, light and position. 
> 
> see you soon


 Lol, idiot. Go away.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

Ahahahahahahah! ..

Next

----------


## LMS

> Lol, idiot. Go away.


 You're the idiot.  What exactly have you contributed to this forum?

You attack a man on his spelling who has previously said English is not his first language.  You tell him to go away as if your words carry some authority.

Let it be clear, I have no opinion on this whole chlorine dioxide thing, but I simply appreciate someone updating and doing what they were actually meant to do which was to keep an updating log with pictures of Lui's treatment.

Cabeledo, please keep up the updates as some people appreciate the updates.

----------


## JimmyHairte

> I think your pictures are awful. Look at this http://i.imgur.com/ubDLa3J.jpg - the before and after photos are taken from 2 different angles. The lighting is also atrocious in both and different in each picture. Your scalp looks black in the second. It's laughable that you expect people to take your "results" seriously at this stage. I also noticed that you're strangely defensive when you've been questioned about your photos so far in this thread. I wonder why that is. LOL @ you managing to get an apology from someone, though. Classic bullshit artist stuff right there.
> 
> Either post photos with consistent lighting and angles or piss off.


 That is not before and after. Those are two 'after' pictures taken from different angles. It's a comparison I made to prove that my accusations of Futu's results being photoshopped were unfounded. Please don't use that picture out of context.

I apologized because it was the right thing to do. I notice morons arguing on hair loss forums way too much about stuff even when they know they are wrong (looking at you JarJar. Yes, there are thousands of people lurking, thinking the same thing but can't be assed to post). I thought apologizing for false accusations would be a nice change for once.

But as I said. I still believe Liu's pre-mixed solution to be a rip-off and his "marketing" process to be fishy. You can make it yourself a lot cheaper. Then again, that can be said of almost any product out there.

----------


## noisette

What do you think about this ? : http://www.google.st/patents/US5750108

----------


## hellouser

> What do you think about this ? : http://www.google.st/patents/US5750108


 Saw Palmetto is mentioned in there, applied topically.... weak.

----------


## rambo007

and here is Liu's patent:

http://www.google.st/patents/WO2013078754A1?cl=en

----------


## Futurocabeludo

I know there are more recent patent. 

GENEVA, June 9 - Publication No. WO / 2014/082514 was published on June 5. 

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P3-3328287441.html 

Or ... 10/09/14 

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/a...8518&forumid=1

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> You're the idiot.  What exactly have you contributed to this forum?
> 
> You attack a man on his spelling who has previously said English is not his first language.  You tell him to go away as if your words carry some authority.
> 
> Let it be clear, I have no opinion on this whole chlorine dioxide thing, but I simply appreciate someone updating and doing what they were actually meant to do which was to keep an updating log with pictures of Lui's treatment.
> 
> Cabeledo, please keep up the updates as some people appreciate the updates.


 LMS,

I appreciate taking the defense. Indeed, the translator does not help much but, with photos, you can understand better. 

Here I have 'friends' pets, like this one: 

*Mr.Z 
You're quite bald you idiot. Now stop spamming the boards with you stupid high contrast, low lighting Which photos show nothing more than your collegues 1) 2 bald) old and 3) pushing snake oil. You've managed to muck up Theboldtruth forums with your nonsense and now you're Bringing it here. Get lost* 

So I will not even pay attention to this kind of characters.

 :Smile:

----------


## Futurocabeludo

LMS, 

See, just 40 days of use lotion (includes 10 days of rest).

http://imgur.com/1ZY3A1H

Never seen anything like this with previous lotions. 

Keep hoping ......

----------


## DanWS

> You're the idiot.  What exactly have you contributed to this forum?
> 
> You attack a man on his spelling who has previously said English is not his first language.  You tell him to go away as if your words carry some authority.
> 
> Let it be clear, I have no opinion on this whole chlorine dioxide thing, but I simply appreciate someone updating and doing what they were actually meant to do which was to keep an updating log with pictures of Lui's treatment.
> 
> Cabeledo, please keep up the updates as some people appreciate the updates.


 Firstly, one's contribution to a forum bears no relation to whether or not one is an idiot. So making one contingent upon the other is nonsensical. Idiot.

Secondly, I did not "attack" a man on his spelling. Please don't dramatise the situation. He referred to me as unintelligent in a sentence which made no sense. It does not make me some sort of bully to point out the irony in that.

Fair enough it's since been brought to my attention that the photo's weren't "before" and "after" (though I don't know why they were made to look compared, side by side) so I apologise for that. But my comments about the awful quality and inconsistent lighting and camera angles still stand.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

Pay attention: 


 JimmyHairt wrote: 

That is not before and after. Those are two 'after' pictures taken from different angles.* It's the comparison I made ​​to prove my accusations* of Futu que's wellbeing results photoshopped Were unfounded. Please do not use que picture out of context 

*It was not me* who made this collage of Before and After. 

Rinse well.

----------


## noisette

Hi, I would like to test it and contribute to the evaluate. I don't have any treatment now, but I think I like test Dr Klein product or Liu perhaps. Where can I get Cd Liu ? Many thanks bro

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> Hi, I would like to test it and contribute to the evaluate. I don't have any treatment now, but I think I like test Dr Klein product or Liu perhaps. Where can I get Cd Liu ? Many thanks bro


 Hi, 

* You could go in another forum where Liu makes a presentation and collect the email address it placed. 

I received free samples sent by another trialista (Poland). 

I can not help you more. 

greetings

----------


## noisette

thanks, i will try to find this forum  :Smile:

----------


## LMS

What's your end goal here danny boy? What exactly are you trying to accomplish? No ones forcing you to read this, I mean great we get it, you think this guy is trying to scam us/ in cahoots with Liu.  Thank you for your expert opinion which wwe all appreciate dearly. Now go solve the next mystery sherlock.

----------


## Morbo

> What's your end goal here danny boy? What exactly are you trying to accomplish? No ones forcing you to read this, I mean great we get it, you think this guy is trying to scam us/ in cahoots with Liu.  Thank you for your expert opinion which wwe all appreciate dearly. Now go solve the next mystery sherlock.


 I'm pretty sure Danny has way better interests for you guys in mind than '_Futurocabeludo_' or this so-called Lui. I don't quite understand where the hate comes from. Maybe Danny's goal is stopping you guys from wasting your money on snakeoil? Maybe his goal is stopping you guys from rubbing a dangerous toxic on your head? Maybe Danny's goal is waking up half the members of this forum who get super-exited every single month with a new very dubious and doubtful breakthrough hype? You don't need a genius detective to figure that out.

----------


## hellouser

I'd like to hear from Arashi. His detective work is top notch.

----------


## nameless

> I'd like to hear from Arashi. His detective work is top notch.


 LOL!!!

Statements like that make the entire site look amateurish if we are so weak-minded that we take the things Arishi says real serious.

----------


## LMS

Theres nothing to detective here. Some guy from China says chlorine dioxide regrows hair, you can buy his stuff or easily make your own.  Whether it works or not is up in the air.  I'm certainly not interested/convinced by its safety or efficacy enough to attempt it myself, and am currently focused on other avenues.  However, I appreciate the fact that there are people willing to try this out.  Rest assured I do my research before attempting any treatment, nor do I emotionally invest myself in any breakthrough beyond the bare minimum.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> I'd like to hear from Arashi. His detective work is top notch.


 Ahaha... :Smile: 

OK

----------


## noisette

Hello guys, you are thinking this CD lotion is a snake oil ? so I must to take Dr Klein 's product ? I'm a norwood 2, perhaps 3 in few months... I never had a treatment and I think about this... Many thanks for your help

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> Hello guys, you are thinking this CD lotion is a snake oil ? so I must to take Dr Klein 's product ? I'm a norwood 2, perhaps 3 in few months... I never had a treatment and I think about this... Many thanks for your help


 Dr Klein's product is the same as always - minox dependence. 

CD Liu's lotion, is the cure - the inventor Words. 

The choice is yours!

----------


## breakbot

> Dr Klein's product is the same as always - minox dependence. 
> 
> CD Liu's lotion, is the cure - the inventor Words. 
> 
> The choice is yours!


 What's wrong with you? It was biologix then neogenic then cg 210 and now if i'm not mising anything it's cd.Why did you became a troll? Do you think it's funny or you must waste your time somehow?

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> What's wrong with you? It was biologix then neogenic then cg 210 and now if i'm not mising anything it's cd.Why did you became a troll? Do you think it's funny or you must waste your time somehow?


 Friend, I understood nothing of what he wrote. 

Anyone used or uses multiple products? 

It is not acceptable for a new product that promises to "cure" appears to be experienced? 

And if the results exceed expectations, you will return to write what he wrote? 

Be patient and wait for the final result. 

Att,

----------


## KO1

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that CD is utter and total snake oil. Feel free to prove me otherwise.

----------


## hellouser

> I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that CD is utter and total snake oil. *Feel free to prove me otherwise*.


 Swisstemples' photos seem to do just that.

----------


## KO1

Sure they do....longer hair, shade...plus a potent oxidizing agent presumably will not benefit your DP cells.

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that CD is utter and total snake oil. Feel free to prove me otherwise.


 http://imgur.com/snZ4I8K,2pvhUEs,fCo...CsGY,pgI0SSs#7

----------


## Kudu

> http://imgur.com/snZ4I8K,2pvhUEs,fCo...CsGY,pgI0SSs#7


 But how can we be sure that CD isn't causing normal hair to fall out and that the results are actually nothing? It's hard to tell in the pictures, I guess I'm indifferent.

----------


## Pentarou

> I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that CD is utter and total snake oil. Feel free to prove me otherwise.


 Where are the double-blinded, placebo-controlled independent studies about this substance? Exactly, there aren't any...

----------


## walrus

> Where are the *double-blinded, placebo-controlled* independent studies about this substance? Exactly, there aren't any...


 Certainly not going to happen through a forum. The best anyone would hope for here are a few unprofessional photos, desperate anecdotes, and some vague bro-science.

----------


## inbrugge

Don't really understand how you guys can complain about not havingb placebo controlled, double blinded, etc tests. You guys realize that would take at least 5 years with multiple trials and regulations costing millions of dollars...

I'm just glad we have people taking initiatives on their own to try new stuff. Yes, the reporting is not as our as a full on scientific study, but I guarantee if any of these attempts get lucky and bring results that you would actually care...

----------


## Futurocabeludo

Today, I will start the 3rd cycle (20 + 10). 


A NW7 not need pics BEFORE (is bald ) 

A roundup of several positions where I see results. 


http://i.imgur.com/CS8us0j.jpg 


See you soon!

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Today, I will start the 3rd cycle (20 + 10). 
> 
> 
> A NW7 not need pics BEFORE (is bald ) 
> 
> A roundup of several positions where I see results. 
> 
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/CS8us0j.jpg 
> ...


 lol at how soon you lost all of your following..people aren't stupid. 

SNAKE OIL.

----------


## Conpecia

> lol at how soon you lost all of your following..people aren't stupid. 
> 
> SNAKE OIL.


 
i am sick of having to say this every 3 pages. it is literally impossible to profit off of this treatment because you can make it yourself, which is exactly what summersnow and swisstemples have done. so you calling CD snake oil is just like someone saying saw palmetto is snake oil. it's not possible. anybody can get it from any source.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> lol at how soon you lost all of your following..people aren't stupid. 
> 
> SNAKE OIL.


 
If you think this is "snake oil", ok ... I like the results that I have with this "snake oil"  :Smile: 

http://i.imgur.com/EbkkgRh.jpg

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> If you think this is "snake oil", ok ... I like the results that I have with this "snake oil" 
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/EbkkgRh.jpg


 
Your pictures do look similar to the ones you posted for cg210

----------


## nameless

I don't know if this stuff is snake oil or not but I do know that Swiss is a good guy. I think we should stop attacking the people who are giving us information about this stuff. Right now we just need to collect more information so we can see if it really works or not. 

I hope the people experimenting with it will keep giving us updates.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> I don't know if this stuff is snake oil or not but I do know that Swiss is a good guy. I think we should stop attacking the people who are giving us information about this stuff. Right now we just need to collect more information so we can see if it really works or not. 
> 
> I hope the people experimenting with it will keep giving us updates.


 
I appreciated his words.
This has to be the stance and wait for the results that this lotion can bring.
I just bought one years for treatment, so you'll get my news for long.

see you soon

----------


## Seuxin

Which $ for one year treatment ?

----------


## lilpauly

> If you think this is "snake oil", ok ... I like the results that I have with this "snake oil" 
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/EbkkgRh.jpg


 those results are impressive.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

> those results are impressive.


 I've been following some of your posts.

I do not use any drugs, or standard care.

If I may I show you these latest photos at this location

http://haircut.portugueseforum.net/t...rine-dioxide#7

This leaves me with hope.

Att,

----------


## Futurocabeludo

My recent update

----------


## Gjm127

> My recent update


 why do you keep blurring out parts of those pictures? Why do we keep seeing those "regrown hairs" super SHORT as if it juuust regrew? It's been months that we're seeing those hairs the same length...

----------


## Futurocabeludo

you still do not understand: this treatment.
At each hair cycle falls, not all.
Only at the end of a year when we finish the treatment
the hair will grow, grow and grow

More time is needed to see the entire result (inventor of words)

(Ps: illiterate Inglês (google translation)

----------


## joachim

looks indeed like some good progress.

but is it necessary to pixelate that much of the whole scalp? can't you protect your identity by only making the face invisible?
would like to see the complete scalp please, if you don't mind.

thank you

----------


## Futurocabeludo

*Updating before the start of cycle 4*

----------


## Seuxin

Good man, if you use Stemox+Caffeine+VitamineC, it could boost the growth !

----------


## Futurocabeludo

followers
I want to share with you these pictures of my current state

http://i.imgur.com/yS4LXbO.jpg

Thank you

----------


## hellouser

> followers
> I want to share with you these pictures of my current state
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/yS4LXbO.jpg
> 
> Thank you


 Density is still poor.

----------


## noisette

> followers
> I want to share with you these pictures of my current state
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/yS4LXbO.jpg
> 
> Thank you


 Thank you for your update. It would be great if you have some hair, all over your head, with time perhaps.

----------


## joachim

i have to admit, that those results are somehow impressive. i mean this guy is 64 years old and NW7 for many years if not decades. how is it possible for such an old man to grow that much new and thick little hairs. it doesn't look like vellus hairs. if the hairs grow out the look will even be more impressive.
is this guy fooling us somehow? what do other members think? desmond, arashi, hellouser?
again, this points us to the wounding path for recreating hair. so many signs for wounding the skin.

----------


## The Alchemist

> i have to admit, that those results are somehow impressive. i mean this guy is 64 years old and NW7 for many years if not decades. how is it possible for such an old man to grow that much new and thick little hairs. it doesn't look like vellus hairs. if the hairs grow out the look will even be more impressive.
> is this guy fooling us somehow? what do other members think? desmond, arashi, hellouser?
> again, this points us to the wounding path for recreating hair. so many signs for wounding the skin.


 
I'm sorry, but i don't see what you're talking about.  He was a nw6 before he began, and he's a nw6 now.  His photos are shot with extremely high contrast which makes it appear like there is more hair than there is.  He'll only show a portion of his head, obscuring the rest of his bald noggin - you ever wonder why?    Why not ask him to put up a video without the lighting effects,  showing all his  "growth"?  He clearly has access to a decent camera and knows how to use it, so where are the clear photos?

----------


## Gjm127

> i have to admit, that those results are somehow impressive. i mean this guy is 64 years old and NW7 for many years if not decades. how is it possible for such an old man to grow that much new and thick little hairs. it doesn't look like vellus hairs. if the hairs grow out the look will even be more impressive.
> is this guy fooling us somehow? what do other members think? desmond, arashi, hellouser?
> again, this points us to the wounding path for recreating hair. so many signs for wounding the skin.


 He could initially have a full head of hair and shaved parts of his head to show how his shaved hair grows back. How can we know if he's really an NW7?

----------


## joachim

> He could initially have a full head of hair and shaved parts of his head to show how his shaved hair grows back. How can we know if he's really an NW7?


 yes, it could be a possibility. but in my opinion it indeed looks like a bald scalp of an old man with grey hair.
however, if we would have more before pictures of the man, then we would definitely know.

----------


## hellouser

> He could initially have a full head of hair and shaved parts of his head to show how his shaved hair grows back. How can we know if he's really an NW7?


 Why would anyone with a full head of hair spend time on hair loss forum, shave it down to NW7 and then show clear sparse growth of hair (which would NOT happen if he had a full head of hair).

----------


## Gjm127

> Why would anyone with a full head of hair spend time on hair loss forum, shave it down to NW7 and then show clear sparse growth of hair (which would NOT happen if he had a full head of hair).


 You made me laugh because you're right... Well, this indeed looks like the Holy Grail if what I see is reality. That last post from Futurecap...

----------


## joachim

i wouldn't call it holy grail or cure, but those sprouting hairs deserve some fair discussion i think. it's far away from gaining a complete norwood or even talking about dense new hair regrowth, but those sprouting hair alone, on a 64 year old scalp, makes me wonder though. i think it's a good start. however, i'm not sure if the chloride dioxide is a safe way of damaging skin. some mentioned it is toxic. question is, does this chloride dioxide really only damage the upper layer of the skin, or does it also trigger some other mechanism in the cells which wouldn't be achieved with normal mechanical wounding (needles or lasers). maybe there are other safe mechanisms to peel down the skin in a controlled and safe way. i still think the laser idea from dr. cots would be ideal for that because it can penetrate the skin relatively deep, and the damage is done with a relative small diameter, but probably on thousand different spots. 

if we could only have access to a medical laser for such purposes, and a controlled environment, alongside with a real doctor who has the right laser know how, then we could do great trials on our own, which are relatively safe, if we don't use chemicals in the first place. i think the wounding alone would induce some hairs in at least 10% of spots, just by chance.

----------


## bigentries

People are really impressed?

Those pics looks exactly the same as the ones he posted here and in other forums as Habemus. 

Remember this guy used to be a confirmed shill

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> *Updating before the start of cycle 4*


 Excuse me if my comment seems offensive, this photo is indeed odd looking, similar in appearance to an image generated from a 3d modeling program.

Chuck

----------


## Jonathan

> Excuse me if my comment seems offensive, this photo is indeed odd looking, similar in appearance to an image generated from a 3d modeling program.
> 
> Chuck


 I do not agree. I have  zoomed in and studied this picture for a long time and not found any mistakes. If this image is fake, its an impressive piece of work done by a professional that has spent days on producing an image of this quality. I do not know what to believe about the product, but this image seems real in my opinion.

----------


## hellouser

The image is real. There's no debating that.

----------


## joachim

i have to admit, it reminds me too, everytime i see that old man's scalp with white hair, i have the feeling it could be habemus. but even if so, i don't care if this guy can show some nice progress within the next months. i only care about results.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

It's an odd picture, no question about that.  It appears as if the photo was shot in a dark room with a strong spotlight illuminating fine caliber white hairs.  Certain lighting can make white hairs actually illuminate and appear thicker than they are.  Upon magnification, many of the short hairs appear to be cut.

Chuck

----------


## Kudu

> i have to admit, it reminds me too, everytime i see that old man's scalp with white hair, i have the feeling it could be habemus. but even if so, i don't care if this guy can show some nice progress within the next months. i only care about results.


 No guys! This dude is Habemus! He said so earlier in this thread! If you search around the web you'll find him still posting under Habemus about CD. I just want to keep things accurate, I'm not calling him a complete fraud but I think we should remain skeptical until further notice. We'll see what happens.

----------


## Futurocabeludo

4 full cycle (20 + 10 break)

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/a...psa2e0f6b1.jpg

----------


## d0072

Just gonna leave this here:

http://www.*****************/interact...3-week-results

Apparently the results on the link are from Chlorine Dioxide.  Not Seti.  But interesting non the less.

Thought I'd share.

----------


## hellouser

> Just gonna leave this here:
> 
> http://www.*****************/interact...3-week-results
> 
> Apparently the results on the link are from Chlorine Dioxide.  Not Seti.  But interesting non the less.
> 
> Thought I'd share.


 Those results are NOT from chlorine dioxide. How did you manage to read chlorine dioxide when it clearly states NOTHING about that?

----------


## bigentries

> Just gonna leave this here:
> 
> http://www.*****************/interact...3-week-results
> 
> Apparently the results on the link are from Chlorine Dioxide.  Not Seti.  But interesting non the less.
> 
> Thought I'd share.


 That's swisstemples, he already clarified the pics. It's not Chlorine, he claims his own trial was a failure. It's not seti either, he plans to use it but those aren't seti results. It's a pretty complex thing he is trying, it surely looks interesting if the results are legit

----------


## edwin78

This guy seems crazy... in love with hair transplant!  :Big Grin:

----------


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