# Men's Hair Loss > Men's Hair Loss: Start Your Own Topic >  My 3 month Results

## Vic

These are my 3 month results Derma rolling and using Rogaine along with my regimen. The light bulb changed between the 2nd and 3rd month but I think it improved the resolution. Also, I don't have baseline pics(pics were on phone, got pushed in pool) so we'll use month 1 as baseline...







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Little about myself, I'm 34, started receding slightly around 23, lost temples by 27 but still had density, 30 massive shedding, very thin on top. I started my hair treatment journey with PRP at age 33. The idea of rebuilding my scalp and bringing it back to a healthy state was what I was trying to do with my overall body so it intrigued me. I had 2 treatments and spent $3200 to grow some peach fuzz basically. 
 About 3-4 months ago I came across the Derma Roller and Rogaine Study posted in these forums.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/

 I know, it happened years ago but I'm fairly new. Researched Derma Rollers and found they do exactly what PRP does and MUCH more! PRP and Derma Rollers both signal the body to send Growth Factors to the affected area but Derma Rollers also help create new blood vessels which was already a part of my regimen. 

 3 months ago I added Derma Rolling and using Rogaine for the 1st time exactly as instructed in the Study to my regimen 

 My entire Regimen is health oriented, using Nature to rebuild myself and eliminating the toxins I ate, drank and showered in. When I started 18 months ago I weighed 195Lbs. I am now 154Lbs with a lot more muscle then when I started so in reality I've lost more then 40lbs because muscle weighs a lot more then fat. I am in the best shape I've been in the last decade.

The rebuilding part:
 I have been trying to increase the blood supply to my scalp. 
 -1st, trying to create more "Brown Fat" in my scalp and body. Brown fat is a type of adipose tissue that is brown. The other one we all know about, white adipose tissue AKA spare tire. Brown Fat is brown because it is filled with blood vessels and has a unique trait, it burns White Adipose tissue to keep us warm in cold temps. I've read Brown Fat is present in the scalp where people have hair but lacking Brown Fat where they are bald. Almost every picture of a hair follicle I've ever seen has a layer of fat below the skin which has blood vessels feeding the hair follicle, that's Brown Fat. 
 To increase my Brown Fat I take cold showers and lost a lot of weight thru healthy eating and exercise because being Fat eliminates brown fat in our bodies since it is not needed anymore with white fat keeping us warm. I started taking cold showers slowly, cold only at the end of the shower, now I just turn the water on cold and jump in. By the end of my shower the water feels warm so I think it's working. 

 -2nd thing I do is exercise. I run about a mile every morning and lift light weights with high reps. Cardio stimulates the formation of new Blood Vessels. Running in the morning before eating anything and then not eating for about an hour after your run stimulates the production of Human Growth Hormone AKA HGH in our bodies. The reason being, the body is looking for energy but there's nothing in our stomach so the thyroid gland starts pumping out HGH, our natural fountain of youth. 

 -3rd would be using the derma roller. Saved the best for last. Wounding stimulates not only Growth Factors but also the creation of new blood vessels. 

Eliminating Toxins:
 I stopped eating processed food. I'll have take out maybe once a week and when I do it's never Mcdonalds of Burger King type places. I stopped drinking Sugar Sodas. I stopped drinking Milk(by far the WORST out of the above). Cows are pumped with drugs, testosterone, estrogen etc etc. When we drink Milk, we are drinking the drugs!
 I encourage everyone to do research on the food we eat. It changed my life for the better. 
 I placed an entire home water filtration system. We shower in rust, chlorine, fluoride and sometimes even drugs! In NY the water was tested positive for anti depressants!
 The water lines in the ground are all rusted. Chlorine and other chemicals are added to make the water that comes out of our faucets seem clean. You ever smell like chorine after you shower? I have too. 

 [B][/What I eat;B]
 I try to eat free range animals. Eggs are the easiest because they are relatively cheap. Only about a dollar more then hormone filled eggs. A little meat and a bunch of veggies is usually my dinner. For lunch each day I make the following smoothie and eat it throughout the day. 
 - Spinach, Parsley, Cilantro, 160mgs of Saw Palmetto, Strawberries, blueberries, Red apple, Orange, Flax Seeds(do not use the oil it goes BAD VERY quickly and can cause hair loss, Use only the seeds and you need break them by either crushing them or putting in the blender) I add and subtract other things but those are always in there because they lower DHT and covers the basics of what my body needs. 

The supplements I take are all intended to create new blood vessels, increase growth factors and feed hair follicles, they are:

 --Borage Oil- helps create blood vessels- using 18 months

 --Vitamin E- helps create blood vessels- using 18 months

 --B complex - feeds hair- using 18 months

 --Saw Palmetto- Reduces DHT, I pore 160mgs into my smoothie. 

 --Red Seaweed Extract(only before I Derma Roll and while my head still hurts, about 3 days after rolling) Red Algae promotes WNT Signaling.- using 2 months

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24328990

 Carrageenan is found in Red Seaweed

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrageenan

 WNT Signaling is a major player in the amount of Growth Factors your body sends.

 --Soy Isoflavones and Capsaicin(spicy peppers)- Promotes growth factors and reduces DHT. Grows hair. - using about 1 month

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=19062253

 --[/U]Copper Peptides spray[U] - Feed hair Follicles- using about 1 month

http://skinbiology.com/copper-peptid...ir-growth.html

 --Rogaine- using 3 months

-- I also try to get atleast 30 mins of Sun light each day. 91% of hair loss sufferers have Vitamin D deficiency.

 I believe I created a healthy environment for hair to grow and the Derma Roller(Growth Factors) have started to regenerate my hair follicles. 

 I will try to post progress pics every month. 

 Thank you all in this community for all the information I've found here. Hope I contributed a little with the info I posted.

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## Vic

This is what I'm most excited about. My temples have been filling in with darker then peach fuzz hair, all growing long and some terminal hairs here and there.

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## hair4us2

Great improvement!

How often do you derma roll for and for how long? eg, once a week for 5 minutes, 2 times a week for 10 minutes...

Thanks

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## hair4us2

OK, I think you derma roll once a week, but how long, on average, do you derma roll for in minutes? 

Do you ever bleed from derma rolling?

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## Vic

> Great improvement!
> 
> How often do you derma roll for and for how long? eg, once a week for 5 minutes, 2 times a week for 10 minutes...
> 
> Thanks


  Thanks! I roll once a week for about 10-15 mins. I bleed every time. Small pin size blood spots all over. I found that rolling slowly gets me better improvements each week. I used to push n roll quickly to get it over with. Now I slowly roll. 
It hurts, I roll a quick back n forth motion all over my scalp then start following the study instructions. It kinda makes my scalp number so when I go at it, pain is less. 
I roll pretty much until I feel my scalp is irritated and more painful to roll. That's when I stop

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## warner8

Hi Vic I had a couple of questions to ask you about your experience with this

1.  DId areas that were bald previously regrow hair? And if so, what was the quality of the hair? Peach fuzz/minitiaurized/quality hair/
2. Did all areas (frontal. crown, temples) respond to the rolling equally, or or were some areas more difficult than others?
3. Did you notice results before the 3 month mark?
4. Overall, are you happy with your results?
5. did you experience a minox shed when you were using it in conjunction with the rolling?

thanks

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## Vic

1- areas that had peach fuzz grew darker and longer. Areas that were totally bald started growing peach fuzz, now also gaining color. 
2- experience some level of growth in all areas.
3- take a look at the top view of my head between month 1 & 2
4- very happy, just wish I found the study before I spent $3200 on PRP. Lol
5- I had a minox shed that lasted less then 2 months but when I added copper peptides about 9 weeks into the treatment I started shedding again and still am. There was a point around week 7-9 which seemed like wasn't losing a single strand of hair.

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## warner8

thanks for your quick replies.


i took your advice and just ordered the 1.5 mm. I am going to try it once a week, when it arrives.

Why do you think more ppl are not trying derma rolling, or put it down so often?




> 1- areas that had peach fuzz grew darker and longer. Areas that were totally bald started growing peach fuzz, now also gaining color. 
> 2- experience some level of growth in all areas.
> 3- take a look at the top view of my head between month 1 & 2
> 4- very happy, just wish I found the study before I spent $3200 on PRP. Lol
> 5- I had a minox shed that lasted less then 2 months but when I added copper peptides about 9 weeks into the treatment I started shedding again and still am. There was a point around week 7-9 which seemed like wasn't losing a single strand of hair.

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## Vic

There were a lot of people who tried it when the study came out. Very few had results. But some used smaller rollers, some were on Fin, etc etc changing the treatment in the study. 

Its also painful. I'm guessing a lot didn't push hard enough for the nedles to reach or get near the hair follicles. Not that you should push hard but getting the 1.5mm pins down 1.5mm's into your scalp doesn't happen with just shoftly and gently rolling. It takes a little pressure. 

And then there's always; not all treatments work equally for everyone.

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## Vic

And good luck, let me know how you do.

And read the study. Use what they used to sterilize the scalp before treatment, dip the roller in 70% alcohol before and after use.

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## Hicks

Is every shower cold?  

Have you thought about an ice pack on top of your head? Like an ice bath or maybe a shower 5-10 minutes of cold compresses the blood vessels pushing old blood out then hitting your head with a warm blow dry expands the vessels causing new blood to come in. Would stand to reason to have nutrients already in Your system. when blood returns it has the methods to rebuild that area. Your thoughts?

None the less your doing well. That 3200 could of put a nice dent fire a HT.  Who did your PRP?

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## Vic

> Is every shower cold?  
> 
> Have you thought about an ice pack on top of your head? Like an ice bath or maybe a shower 5-10 minutes of cold compresses the blood vessels pushing old blood out then hitting your head with a warm blow dry expands the vessels causing new blood to come in. Would stand to reason to have nutrients already in Your system. when blood returns it has the methods to rebuild that area. Your thoughts?
> 
> None the less your doing well. That 3200 could of put a nice dent fire a HT.  Who did your PRP?


 Every shower is cold. As cold as it gets now a days.  
I've considered it. Placing a cold pack on my scalp in the evenings while watching TV or reading. Haven't done it, maybe one day. That would also benefit my brown fat production. 
Smart man Hicks. I actually take my vitamins, Borage Oil and B complex about 30-45 mins before I shower so that its in my system before the "blood swap" occurs. 
$3200 would've been a nice dent. That's one of the main reasons I didn't continue with PRP. That and the fact that a $10 Derma Roller does the same exact thing. The rate of growth i'm experiencing now is blowing my mind, if rate of growth continues, there won't be a need for a hair transplant in 12-18 months. I'll put up my 4 month mark next week. 
Don't remember the docs name but it was in Beverly Hills. Either way, not spending another penny on it.

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## Vic

The blood flow returns to the scalp on its own. You don't need to warm the scalp. Once the body compresses from the cold, blood flow is amped up naturally by the heart to send blood to all extremities.

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## TooMuchHairWontKillYou

When I take cold shower I have feeling that it doesn't remove oil and dirt :\

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## Vic

Do you use a shampoo? And the point is to not wash away all the oil. Some oil is healthy.

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## MegaNatural

> When I take cold shower I have feeling that it doesn't remove oil and dirt :\


 wash hot 1st

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## Vic

4 month update, a little late but pic was taken at 4 month mark.

I've been shedding since I started using Copper peptides, the worst shedding has taken place in the last 2 weeks. When I pinch my hair and pull gently, there are about 4-6 hairs each time. 

I also took a break from rolling after the 3rd month like the study says. Will prob start again soon.

My temples are filling in by the day. Only reason I'm not totally freaking out about the amount of hair I'm shedding. I have terminal hairs growing as low as where my hairline was when I was 18. Hoping it continues. Will keep posting progress or lack there of.

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## Inthemix

Thanks for the updates. Wish you luck!

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## Vic

a close up of my temples at month 1 and month 4.

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## Mady

Thanks for your posting I'm new here can please tell me what are you doing exactly by simple way, I mean what are using. Thanks

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## doke

Hi Vic when I used to derma roll on the temples I seemed to sneeze which was strange and left me with a runny nose and made eyes water.
I did hear that you can use 5% lidokaine 20mins before rolling.

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## Vic

> Thanks for your posting I'm new here can please tell me what are you doing exactly by simple way, I mean what are using. Thanks


 Simple way, I use Rogaine twice a day and Derma roll once a week with 1.5mm. And I take the supplements I've posted that promote growth factors. The entire treatment method is growth factor based. From running in the mornings to boost HGH to the supplements I take and Derma roll. 
Not sure how to make it simpler because there's a lot I do to make conditions for hair growth possible. Everything I do works together to achieve growth factors.

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## Vic

> Hi Vic when I used to derma roll on the temples I seemed to sneeze which was strange and left me with a runny nose and made eyes water.
> I did hear that you can use 5% lidokaine 20mins before rolling.


 Hi Doke. That happens to me too!! Lol. I'm not sure where you heard I use Lidokaine, I don't even know what that is. I use Betadine solution to sterilize my scalp before rolling.

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## Vic

> Thanks for your posting I'm new here can please tell me what are you doing exactly by simple way, I mean what are using. Thanks


 ... And trying to promote "Brown Fat" production and blood vessel formation in my scalp. My theory is, once I've achieved the growth I want(if I do that is) I'll need blood vessels to feed the new growth and maintain the growth. 
Everything is posted on page 1. To make it simpler just read what I do and use and ignore the studies I've posted and my explanations of why I do what I do. 

If you are looking for a Miracle potion that'll grow your hair back, that's not in this thread. My theory is a systematic approach to creating a healthy environment for hair to grow.

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## warner8

hi vic, wanted to hear your thoughts on applying lithium chloride after derma rolling, as mentioned on swiss temples blog. 




> ... And trying to promote "Brown Fat" production and blood vessel formation in my scalp. My theory is, once I've achieved the growth I want(if I do that is) I'll need blood vessels to feed the new growth and maintain the growth. 
> Everything is posted on page 1. To make it simpler just read what I do and use and ignore the studies I've posted and my explanations of why I do what I do. 
> 
> If you are looking for a Miracle potion that'll grow your hair back, that's not in this thread. My theory is a systematic approach to creating a healthy environment for hair to grow.

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## Vic

> hi vic, wanted to hear your thoughts on applying lithium chloride after derma rolling, as mentioned on swiss temples blog.


 I really don't know much about it but I'd be very cautious applying anything after rolling. Applying chemicals on an open wound can end up in your bloodstream and lead to all sorts of issues. Even applying something as well known and studied as minox after rolling can cause serious side affects in some.

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## Hicks

Vic, have you thought about adding something like C4 by cellucor to your plan?  

It creates a dilating of blood vessels. Just a thought.  I'm sure you would bleed a lot more if you take it before but maybe take it after wounding?

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## Vic

> Vic, have you thought about adding something like C4 by cellucor to your plan?  
> 
> It creates a dilating of blood vessels. Just a thought.  I'm sure you would bleed a lot more if you take it before but maybe take it after wounding?


 Hi Hicks, I replied to your comment a few days ago but it didn't post for some reason. 

I try to avoid chemicals as much as I can. 
After I Derma roll I do a few stretches and then touch my toes for a few minutes. Blood rushes to my head, hopefully with growth factors. I'm not exactly sure when growth factors are released but if it happens quickly(right after wounding) then I have a rush of blood right after rolling by touching my toes. If growth factors are released during the healing period, then running increases blood flow to my scalp.

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## HelloVera

Hey Vic great results mate! What month are you into now? Was thinking of buying some minox and derma roll near the forehead and inch from temple hairline to see how it goes, as i've got 1000's of mixed minature hairs and vellous hairs in that area, plus don't want to risk a shed right now with my hairline so avoiding it for the time been and if goes well i'll work my way back.....worth a punt? If bim comes out would you risk dropping minox for it?

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## Hicks

> Hi Hicks, I replied to your comment a few days ago but it didn't post for some reason. 
> 
> I try to avoid chemicals as much as I can. 
> After I Derma roll I do a few stretches and then touch my toes for a few minutes. Blood rushes to my head, hopefully with growth factors. I'm not exactly sure when growth factors are released but if it happens quickly(right after wounding) then I have a rush of blood right after rolling by touching my toes. If growth factors are released during the healing period, then running increases blood flow to my scalp.


 C4 is a pre-workout drink that increases blood vessel size.  I totally understand if that's not your thing.  Niacin seems to be pretty positive for growth but it's really Brosceince so strike your own opinion. I wanted to toss that your way.

I got my Derminator.  I haven't had a chance to fire it up yet. wish me luck!

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## Vic

Lol. Good luck Hicks! 

Hellovera, thanks mate! I'm almost at month 5. I haven't rolled for almost 2 months now, going to start again next week which will be my 5 month mark. 
Hellovera, it would be good for the community if you tried rolling without the minox and see what kind of results you get in 2 months. You'll avoid the minox shed and we'll get to see how growth factors work without minox.

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## HelloVera

I will do after i've been to see the Dermo mate, i'm hoping they do a scalp bio and don't want mini wounds to effect the actual state. I did 12 weeks derma rolling with 2mm a few years ago, hard to say how it helped and i had already had a small 2nd hairline introduced thanks to topical Emu oil and ACV (the only topicals i used) lost most of it due to stopping when i got into a new relationship n didn't want to explain why i had Emu oil on my scalp in bed and why i stank like vinegar lol. By 2nd hairline i meant pigmented vellous which was noticeable but sadly not cosmetically happy with. What size do you suggest bear in mind my forehead can bleed with a 1mm one.

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## Vic

> I will do after i've been to see the Dermo mate, i'm hoping they do a scalp bio and don't want mini wounds to effect the actual state. I did 12 weeks derma rolling with 2mm a few years ago, hard to say how it helped and i had already had a small 2nd hairline introduced thanks to topical Emu oil and ACV (the only topicals i used) lost most of it due to stopping when i got into a new relationship n didn't want to explain why i had Emu oil on my scalp in bed and why i stank like vinegar lol. By 2nd hairline i meant pigmented vellous which was noticeable but sadly not cosmetically happy with. What size do you suggest bear in mind my forehead can bleed with a 1mm one.


 Lol. Hopefully you gain what you lost when you stopped for that girl. 

Vellus hairs are 1.5mm to 2mm below the skin so if you want to improve the quality of "peach fuzz" then start with 1.5mm. Once they gain pigment then go larger because the thicker the hair, the deeper the hair follicle. Full Terminal hairs are 3mm to 4mm below the skin. 

I'm going to use 1.5mm again for my next 3 month session. If I see enough improvement after my next session then I'm planning on moving up to a 2mm as the hair follicles will be deeper in my skin and the 1.5mm won't get near the follicles anymore.

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## Occulus

I think the only active ingredients of your protocol are the rolling and the Rogaine.  There's no evidence that HGH grows hair, and if it did, there should be a lot of evidence, at least anecdotally, as there are tens (hundreds?) of thousands of older men who take HGH.  I also can't find any scientific studies that suggest exercising on an empty stomach ramps up HGH production, though there is a lot of chatter that fasting and high intensity interval training does.  Eating "clean" also doesn't grow hair - again, if it did, we'd have a lot of anecdotal evidence of it, as lots of balding men eat clean.  

If anything but our genetics made our hair fall out, you wouldn't see any fat men, old men, etc. with hair, nor would you see any athletes who were bald.  It's a genetic condition, and if anything in your protocol is growing hair, its the things most men DON'T do, which is derma-roll their heads and then apply Rogain.  Good for you for getting healthy, but there's no reason to think it has anything to do with the perceived success of your protocol.

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## Vic

> I think the only active ingredients of your protocol are the rolling and the Rogaine.  There's no evidence that HGH grows hair, and if it did, there should be a lot of evidence, at least anecdotally, as there are tens (hundreds?) of thousands of older men who take HGH.  I also can't find any scientific studies that suggest exercising on an empty stomach ramps up HGH production, though there is a lot of chatter that fasting and high intensity interval training does.  Eating "clean" also doesn't grow hair - again, if it did, we'd have a lot of anecdotal evidence of it, as lots of balding men eat clean.  
> 
> If anything but our genetics made our hair fall out, you wouldn't see any fat men, old men, etc. with hair, nor would you see any athletes who were bald.  It's a genetic condition, and if anything in your protocol is growing hair, its the things most men DON'T do, which is derma-roll their heads and then apply Rogain.  Good for you for getting healthy, but there's no reason to think it has anything to do with the perceived success of your protocol.


 It could be just the Derma roller and rogaine. But a Derma roller is used to generate growth factors. That's what helps repair what ever is damaged, so increasing growth factors with the supplements I take and the nutrients I eat help repair my damaged scalp. 
I'm not sure how to respond to the HGH partion of your comment because you seem to agree with what I said about how and when our bodies produce it. Almost everyone who's ever used HGH has reported hair growth, check any AIDS forum or muscle building forum for countless testimonies.
As for healthy eating, it comes down to common sense and being able to see how the world works. For example; if you wanted a rose bush to grow big and tall you'd make sure the ground had nutrients and that it was watered regularly. Just because it's a rose bush and is supposed to give you roses doesn't mean it will if conditions for growth are not right. As far as humans go, all you have to do is pay attention to how you feel when you eat crap. If you feel like crap after you eat crap it's because your body Didn't get the nutrients it needed. When your body doesn't have the nutrients it needs the 1st thing that is cut off is HAIR because your body doesn't need hair to survive. Your body needs the right nutrients to function properly just like the rose bush.

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## Occulus

> It could be just the Derma roller and rogaine. But a Derma roller is used to generate growth factors. That's what helps repair what ever is damaged, so increasing growth factors with the supplements I take and the nutrients I eat help repair my damaged scalp. 
> I'm not sure how to respond to the HGH partion of your comment because you seem to agree with what I said about how and when our bodies produce it. Almost everyone who's ever used HGH has reported hair growth, check any AIDS forum or muscle building forum for countless testimonies.
> As for healthy eating, it comes down to common sense and being able to see how the world works. For example; if you wanted a rose bush to grow big and tall you'd make sure the ground had nutrients and that it was watered regularly. Just because it's a rose bush and is supposed to give you roses doesn't mean it will if conditions for growth are not right. As far as humans go, all you have to do is pay attention to how you feel when you eat crap. If you feel like crap after you eat crap it's because your body Didn't get the nutrients it needed. When your body doesn't have the nutrients it needs the 1st thing that is cut off is HAIR because your body doesn't need hair to survive. Your body needs the right nutrients to function properly just like the rose bush.


 "Common sense" is not scientific fact.  As I said, there are probably millions of bald men world wide who eat clean and maintain a healthy body.  There are probably tens (hundreds?) of millions of fat, unhealthy, men who smoke or abuse drugs and have full heads of hair.  There is no evidence that being healthy promotes hair growth.  Does it hurt?  Of course not.  But to suggest that it plays any role in whatever growth you're seeing is completely baseless and unfounded in science.  

As for HGH, I have never heard of it growing hair.  I think if it was that prevalent, it would be discussed here and elsewhere, and there would be studies on WHY it grows hair.  Finally, as I said, there is "chatter" on blogs that say fastening promotes HGH production.  Despite that, I've found very few actually scientific studies that have observed that, and those that speak in terms of percentages, not absolutes.  Again, if fasting grew hair, we'd know it, as there are lots of people who fast and who live on caloric restricted diets (the obese, who do it to lose weight, and a bunch of nuts who think it will extend their life - the later has been observed in simple animals, but not in primates or any other model that comes close to humans).  

Keep rolling, keep applying the Rogaine, and stay in shape, but only the first two could reasonably be expected to grow hair.

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## Vic

> "Common sense" is not scientific fact.  As I said, there are probably millions of bald men world wide who eat clean and maintain a healthy body.  There are probably tens (hundreds?) of millions of fat, unhealthy, men who smoke or abuse drugs and have full heads of hair.  There is no evidence that being healthy promotes hair growth.  Does it hurt?  Of course not.  But to suggest that it plays any role in whatever growth you're seeing is completely baseless and unfounded in science.  
> 
> As for HGH, I have never heard of it growing hair.  I think if it was that prevalent, it would be discussed here and elsewhere, and there would be studies on WHY it grows hair.  Finally, as I said, there is "chatter" on blogs that say fastening promotes HGH production.  Despite that, I've found very few actually scientific studies that have observed that, and those that speak in terms of percentages, not absolutes.  Again, if fasting grew hair, we'd know it, as there are lots of people who fast and who live on caloric restricted diets (the obese, who do it to lose weight, and a bunch of nuts who think it will extend their life - the later has been observed in simple animals, but not in primates or any other model that comes close to humans).  
> 
> Keep rolling, keep applying the Rogaine, and stay in shape, but only the first two could reasonably be expected to grow hair.


 "Only the first two could reasonably be expected to grow hair" 

its clear you don't even know basic biology so here's a refresher from what you should have learned in elementary school. 
EVERY LIVING CELL NEEDS ENERGY TO SURVIVE. OUR CELLS GET ENERGY FROM NUTRIENTS. Without the right nutrients all the growth factors in the world wouldn't make a difference. 
The rest of your comment I'll leave for you to do some actual research and correct yourself. To think growth factors triggered from a Derma roller can have an affect on hair but HGH which is the most potent form of growth factor doesn't have any affect on hair just shows how little you've actually researched the subject.

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## Occulus

> "Only the first two could reasonably be expected to grow hair" 
> 
> its clear you don't even know basic biology so here's a refresher from what you should have learned in elementary school. 
> EVERY LIVING CELL NEEDS ENERGY TO SURVIVE. OUR CELLS GET ENERGY FROM NUTRIENTS. Without the right nutrients all the growth factors in the world wouldn't make a difference. 
> The rest of your comment I'll leave for you to do some actual research and correct yourself. To think growth factors triggered from a Derma roller can have an affect on hair but HGH which is the most potent form of growth factor doesn't have any affect on hair just shows how little you've actually researched the subject.


 As I said, if eating clean and being in shape grew hair, there wouldn't be any bald athletes, nor any fat and out of shape guys with full heads of hair.  There's plenty of data showing that wounding induces hair growth (there are several researchers pursuing this protocol right now - Follica, and apparently others).  

There's nothing but slim anecdotal evidence to prove HGH grows hair.  While it's certainly possible, as HGH grows EVERYTHING, and often not in ways that are healthy, there's been no tested theory as why it should grow hair, nor any way to get it to grow ONLY hair.  Regardless of the ability of HGH to grow hair or not, you claim you protocol somehow induces excessive HGH production, for which you've provided no proof, and your claim that exercising on an empty stomach induces HGH production is nonsense.  As I've said, there are a few studies that suggest fasting (for AT LEAST 16 hours, and optimally for 24-36 hours) increases HGH production, but it's far from settled, and most of the hype surrounding fasting has been generated by blogs and other laypeople who have no scientific background nor support their claims with data.

I will say this about rolling, which Spencer himself has stated: you are opening yourself up to potential infection and permanent scarring, which will definitely have an adverse affect on hair growth.  While I think wounding does grow hair, it's apparently critical to wound in a very certain way.  Until the exact process can be determined (something Follica has been working on for about a decade now, to no apparent consistent success), I would never, ever experiment on myself.  The risk/rewards aren't worth it; sure, you may pick up a few hundred hairs, or you may build up so much fibrotic tissue that any future treatment becomes impossible.  Or, even worse, you might contract a serious infection.

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## Vic

> As I said, if eating clean and being in shape grew hair, there wouldn't be any bald athletes, nor any fat and out of shape guys with full heads of hair.  There's plenty of data showing that wounding induces hair growth (there are several researchers pursuing this protocol right now - Follica, and apparently others).  
> 
> There's nothing but slim anecdotal evidence to prove HGH grows hair.  While it's certainly possible, as HGH grows EVERYTHING, and often not in ways that are healthy, there's been no tested theory as why it should grow hair, nor any way to get it to grow ONLY hair.  Regardless of the ability of HGH to grow hair or not, you claim you protocol somehow induces excessive HGH production, for which you've provided no proof, and your claim that exercising on an empty stomach induces HGH production is nonsense.  As I've said, there are a few studies that suggest fasting (for AT LEAST 16 hours, and optimally for 24-36 hours) increases HGH production, but it's far from settled, and most of the hype surrounding fasting has been generated by blogs and other laypeople who have no scientific background nor support their claims with data.
> 
> I will say this about rolling, which Spencer himself has stated: you are opening yourself up to potential infection and permanent scarring, which will definitely have an adverse affect on hair growth.  While I think wounding does grow hair, it's apparently critical to wound in a very certain way.  Until the exact process can be determined (something Follica has been working on for about a decade now, to no apparent consistent success), I would never, ever experiment on myself.  The risk/rewards aren't worth it; sure, you may pick up a few hundred hairs, or you may build up so much fibrotic tissue that any future treatment becomes impossible.  Or, even worse, you might contract a serious infection.


 
This is what I'm doing. I'm not forcing it on you. I didn't ask for your opinion. I don't care about your opinion. 
I'm conducting my own "study". If I fail then oh well. If I'm successful then it's documented for others to try if they please. 
Go troll somewhere else.

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## warner8

HI Vic, quick question; when i dermarolll with my 1.5 mm on a shaven head, i don't bleed at all, and my scalp doesn't turn red,  and I'm not really that sore the next day surprisingly.  i know the studies said 15 min rolling till erythema. based off your experience, am i being aggressive enough, or is what I'm doing fine. i am about 1 month into derma rolling. 



> This is what I'm doing. I'm not forcing it on you. I didn't ask for your opinion. I don't care about your opinion. 
> I'm conducting my own "study". If I fail then oh well. If I'm successful then it's documented for others to try if they please. 
> Go troll somewhere else.

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## Vic

> HI Vic, quick question; when i dermarolll with my 1.5 mm on a shaven head, i don't bleed at all, and my scalp doesn't turn red,  and I'm not really that sore the next day surprisingly.  i know the studies said 15 min rolling till erythema. based off your experience, am i being aggressive enough, or is what I'm doing fine. i am about 1 month into derma rolling.


 Hi Warner, bleeding isn't a necessity but to not be sore the day after rolling with a 1.5 is quite strange. I'm sore for about 3 days after rolling. My guess would be the entire needle isn't being submerged in the skin. I wouldn't say be aggressive but a little pressure is definitely needed. 
how many needles are on your roller? Rollers with high pin counts like the 540 types are a lot harder to fully submerge. 

Have you seen any signs of growth ???

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## Vic

Month 5 update. 
I've stopped using copper peptides for about 2 weeks now, thought it might have been the cause of my shed but shedding has not let up. It's basically non stop shedding but my temples are getting thicker and thicker. My right temple is almost cosmetically significant. Almost looks like I have a hairline again, lol. My left temple point has basically grown back.

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## Vic

Month 5 update. 
I've stopped using copper peptides for about 2 weeks now, thought it might have been the cause of my shed but shedding has not let up. It's basically non stop shedding but my temples are getting thicker and thicker. My right temple is almost cosmetically significant. Almost looks like I have a hairline again, lol. My left temple point has basically grown back.

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## Vic

To me it looks like I've shed any gain I had except for my temples. Still mostly peach fuzz/dark peach fuzz. 
Made a few changes, I read coffee increases PHD2 so I've basically cut it from my diet. Also cut Niacin(was in my multi) and borage oil. Niacin also increases PGD2 and borage oil is mainly Omega 6's which cause inflammation. 
My shedding kinda slowed about 3 days after I stopped drinking coffee. I'd say I shed at a normal rate now. 
I couldn't attach more pics. I've reached my attachment limit I guess.

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## Vic

Finally found something that states exactly what happens during wound healing. What happens 1st to last, what helps and most interesting, #22 lists what vitamins and minerals are essential for wound healing and #27 states how Nutritional defecincies impair wound healing. 
http://www.elsevieradvantage.com/sam...0323034708.pdf

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## Hicks

Did you try Acell with your PRP?  
I got another treatment about 2 weeks ago.  I added Acell this time. 

There was another study out about adding tea tree oil and a anti inflammatory to your minoxidil.  I can't find it off hand. I tried tea tree and rosemary oil and it was terrible.  Major itching and flaking. I might of added to much rosemary or tea tree. Felt like poison ivy when taking a shower.

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## Vic

Hi Hicks, no didn't add acell to PRP either time. Doc said acell is used when there's damage to the area being treated. 
I used to use tea tree oil shampoo and I didn't like it. I switched to red seaweed shampoo a few months ago and my scalp feels better now then when I used the tea tree shampoo. 
I've changed my treatment method a bit to eliminate the cause of  inflammation. We'll see how things turn out in 6 months. 

Something new I've just recently been doing besides eliminating the causes of inflammation is applying Rogaine and then getting my 30 mins of sun. I used to get my sun time in then apply Rogaine and it seems like the peach fuzz/darker peach fuzz has gained a lot more color in just 2 weeks time. 

How many PRP treatments have you had so far? Any actual growth?

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## Hicks

2 treatments. No actual regrowth. 
I had one PRP treatment using the angel system.  I didn't notice a big difference but my hair did seem better.  10 months after I noticed my hair seemed thinner.  I was hearing adding Acell the benefits last longer.

I think Acell is the only thing we have that is regenerative medicine.

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## Vic

Well it's month 8 and not much to report. Skipped month 7 update for the same reason and because I didn't follow my regimen over the holidays. Planning on starting again in a week or 2 with some changes. 
1st change- switching to 520pin rollers. It's what I used when I 1st started in month 1 & 2. When I had best results. When I rolled with the 520pin I noticed a layer of skin pealing off. Didn't have that with the 192pin rollers. Read removing a layer of skin is how wound healing is best achieved & it's part 1 of Repricells coming treatment? So switching back to 520pin. 
2nd change is I'll be making a topical which I've read increases growth factor response after wounding. Which is in the attachment I posted. Will be using a topical of Vit C, Emu oil for omega 3 and Pumpkin seed oil for magnesium. Going to apply 3 times a week and before rolling. 

I do believe I'm on the right track. Temples keep filling in, more and more pigmented peach fuzz. Not fully terminal but closer to normal hair than peach fuzz at this point. I can see some level of growth from my original hairline, I had a few terminal hairs grow out very low on my hairline and now there's a forest of peach fuzz between my hairline and the low, lonely terminal hairs. If nothing else, I think I've given new life to follicles that were on the brink of being lost forever. Ready for Histogen to give them the boost they need if no further progress is achieved. 
Will keep posting, good luck to us all!

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## MING

how is your result with prp+ACELL? , I  AM THINKING OF GETTING THAT. THANKS

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## Hicks

> how is your result with prp+ACELL? , I  AM THINKING OF GETTING THAT. THANKS


 I'm 2 months out. Takes 5 to notice results.  To me it's enough to get this done once a year. The fat stem cell buzz is interesting but there's a big difference from $1800 ACELL and $5500 adipose. 

If you got the money to burn go for it but regardless you need to be on a DHT drug.

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## MING

> i'm 2 months out. Takes 5 to notice results.  To me it's enough to get this done once a year. The fat stem cell buzz is interesting but there's a big difference from $1800 acell and $5500 adipose. 
> 
> If you got the money to burn go for it but regardless you need to be on a dht drug.


 i actually just off fin, can not take it.so there is no other way to keep the hair now . Man so sad!

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## Vic

@ Hicks, I've seen some promising results with Fat stem cell treatments but they are really expensive! Basically becomes more expensive than a hair transplant after the recommended 3 treatments.

@Ming- why don't you try something not as strong as Fin like Saw Plametto. Not as effective but it's better then using nothing and it'll atleast control DHT a little bit.

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## Hicks

In this study, we prepared a multimodal microemulsion comprising minoxidil (a dihydrotestosterone antagonist), diclofenac (a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory agent), and tea tree oil (an anti-infective agent). 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3686323/

I add about 10 drops of tea tree oil to my lipogaine. I added some peppermint oil as well. Careful adding oils. Some can mess the scalp up. I think I tried rosemary oil and my scalp peeled like a snake.  Maybe start a new thread like this one to get suggestions and track the progress?

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## Vic

Nice find Hicks! Start a thread. I recently added Emu oil.

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## MING

> @ hicks, i've seen some promising results with fat stem cell treatments but they are really expensive! Basically becomes more expensive than a hair transplant after the recommended 3 treatments.
> 
> @ming- why don't you try something not as strong as fin like saw plametto. Not as effective but it's better then using nothing and it'll atleast control dht a little bit.


 thanks for the recommendation. Just don't feel like try anything that is not fda approved

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## marklin

Vic, Any update?

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## Jazz1

Derma rolling does help, I use 1mm needle daily and 1.5mm once week for wounding. I noticed my forehead had tons of velus hairs, as my top hair was already stabilized.

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## Vic

I've been lazy. I really want to start again.

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## FAA952

Hey Vic, sorry if this is a dumb question, but can you go out in public/work the day of using the roller? For instance if I used it in the morning before work, would I look odd that day or does it basically all clean up in the shower?

Thanks!

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## Vic

I would roll after work because the skin looks red after rolling. By next morning id be perfectly normal.

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## karxxx

> To me it looks like I've shed any gain I had except for my temples. Still mostly peach fuzz/dark peach fuzz. 
> Made a few changes, I read coffee increases PHD2 so I've basically cut it from my diet. Also cut Niacin(was in my multi) and borage oil. Niacin also increases PGD2 and borage oil is mainly Omega 6's which cause inflammation. 
> My shedding kinda slowed about 3 days after I stopped drinking coffee. I'd say I shed at a normal rate now. 
> I couldn't attach more pics. I've reached my attachment limit I guess.


 Increase coffee pgd2?
Source data?
Topical oral?

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## annaroy

I found the truth about that a derma needle roller is a skincare device and part of face gym equipment used to help renew, repair and freshen the skin.
https://talesofbrands.com/7-best-der...llers-for-face

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## ricko12

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