# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments >  Propecia Killed my Erection

## Optic Eye

I'm 44 and I've had two hair transplants, in a ritzy clinic in Beverly Hills, mainly on the vertex and the frontal hairline. My doctor strongly suggested that I start taking Propecia so I wouldn't lose any more existing hair. I agreed and began my once a day pill of Propecia in the morning. For the next 2 1/2 years I took Propecia everyday and my hair responded wonderfully to it. My hair looked great once the implants started growing. I was overjoyed! It was as if someone had turned back the clock 10 years on my looks. I had been a prisoner under various baseball hats for 4 long years and now I felt free. Before, I would constantly avoid social situations because I didn't want people to see my thinning head of hair.  Sometimes friends would joke and say they never see me without a hat. I'd laugh it off but that got under my skin. Now, women were checking me out and my confidence rose. Having the 2 hair transplants (that cost over 12 grand) was the best money I've ever spent and worth every penny. 

Now the bad news. My sex drive was slowly diminishing with each passing day. I really didn't notice it at first but about 6 months into taking Propecia I realized I wasn't lasting as long as I used to in the bedroom. I just chalked it up to being tired or getting older (not a kid anymore). Sometimes everything was fine and dandy but things started getting bad in the second year on Propecia. My erections weren't nearly as strong as before. I was flying at half mast. Sometimes I could barely maintain enough wood to get a condom on. Once I had the condom on I couldn't feel anything. My penis was numb. Condoms always dull the sensation no matter how thin they are but I couldn't feel anything at all. Sensitivity near zero. This was scary. I got very little pleasure from sex. It was like exercise. Even without the condom sometimes it was hard to get things going, when a woman gave me head, it was like watching someone else on TV because I just barely felt it. On a good day I could get it up, get it in a condom and give her a few good strokes and that was it. I was on a downward spiral  sexually,  I can't begin to tell you about the embarassment I felt but my hair looked great. My relationship with my girlfriend fell apart and we soon broke up.  I told my doctor and he said he could write me a perscription for Viagra. I didn't want to start taking the magic blues, because they have some nasty side effects of their own. Besides, I was a superman in the sack before my surgery and Propecia. I knew in my mind I had one thing to do.

I had to stop taking Propecia. I knew that about 2% of the men that take Propecia experience erectile problems and I guess I was in that small margin. After a few weeks off Propecia my desire and rockhard erections came roaring back. I was waking up in the morning with a boner. That's something that rarely happened while I was on Propecia. Now, without Propecia dulling my senses I was swinging the lumber, burning women down to the ground. I was a love machine again and I got my sexual confidence back. That was 11 months ago and I haven't taken a single dose of Propecia since. 

Now the downside: At the moment I have some major shedding going on with the hair surrounding the transplants. I read that if you stop Propecia, then any benefit you gain while on it will be lost within a year. I also read when you start up a new treatment you can expect shedding for the first few months. I believe I'm getting a double whammy of shedding right now from the stoppage of Propecia and starting the 10% Minox about 6 months ago. I'm trying not to panic as my hair looks thinner and uncooperative with each washing. I'm just trying to weather the shedding storm and hope that the minox will soon take effect and restore my density.

I didn't want to stop Propecia but I was caught between a rock and a hard place. What good is having hair and being attractive to women if you can't perform sexually. That's what life is all about. I'd rather be bald or thinning and have my dick work than have a full head of lovely hair and have a limp noodle. If there is anything worst than hairloss it's not having your pecker work. You feel like half a man.


When I stopped Propecia I decided to try topicals. I started with Spectral DNC, "The world's most effective topical hair loss treatment", that's what the bottle says. Spectral DNC is an orange solution that contains 5% minoxidil, Aminexil, and various herbal ingredients. I used this for only 6 months because it constantly turned my black hair orange wherever it was applied. I didn't see any shedding while I used Spectral DNC but I didn't see any results either. I switched to Perfect Hair Solution's, 10% Minoxidil with 5% Azelaic Acid (twice a day), added Procerin (a supposed herbal dht blocker), a saw palmetto pill 160mg (to give the Procerin a boost), and Nizoral shampoo (twice a week). That's my regimen. 

Once I switched to the Minox I started to shed within a 2 months. A hard shed. Shedding hair is scary, especially when you've had two density building hair transplants. I'm at the point where I almost need to reach for my hat again because of the thin spots. Everything I've read about shedding said it's temporary and the hair will grow  back, just hang in there but I don't know. I think the minox is making some of the transplanted hairs shed too. It's been 5 months on my new regimen and hard to tell if the shedding has completely stopped or not. I'm sure it has slowed. I really don't see a staggering amount of  hairs falling out when I comb it, but after I wash my hair it always looks thinner. I see some small hairs sprouting but I don't know if they are miniaturizing from the lack of Propecia or are they new hairs growing from the super strength Minox. It's hard to tell what I'm actually seeing. I'm going to keep at my regimen for another 6 months and if no improvement, I'll have to do something else, but without Propecia in my line of defense I don't see many options.

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## Rosso_Corsa

Thanks for posting that. I totally hear you about impotence making one feel like "half a man".

That is my biggest fear that is holding me back from starting Propecia! What good is a full head of hair if you can't perform?!

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## Mr. 4000

> Thanks for posting that. I totally hear you about impotence making one feel like "half a man".
> 
> That is my biggest fear that is holding me back from starting Propecia! What good is a full head of hair if you can't perform?!


 absolutely nothing!

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## Dr Dan McGrath

I am sorry to here that you had the response that you did with the propecia.
In my practice I try to explain to patients that this is a very small percentage of patients that have a response like that, but I also remind them that this is not life or death, its hair, and if you get side effects from the medicine what good is that?
I have had some success though in giving my patients a drug holiday for a month or two and then restarting the Propecia but going to an every other day dosing schedule or even every third day for a few weeks. That way you can still get some benefit with the least amount of side effects.
It may be worth a try.

Dr Dan

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## Red20

> I am sorry to here that you had the response that you did with the propecia.
> In my practice I try to explain to patients that this is a very small percentage of patients that have a response like that, but I also remind them that this is not life or death, its hair, and if you get side effects from the medicine what good is that?
> I have had some success though in giving my patients a drug holiday for a month or two and then restarting the Propecia but going to an every other day dosing schedule or even every third day for a few weeks. That way you can still get some benefit with the least amount of side effects.
> It may be worth a try.
> 
> Dr Dan


 
Fantastic advice Dr Dan!

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## brando1

I had the same issue when I first started taking proscar so I stopped for a while then started back up again. Those side effects eventually went away including the soreness in my breast area. But at the age of 44yrs your testosterone slowly decrees, maybe get you tesosterone free and total checked out or ask your doc for a prescription of Androgel for that boost :Big Grin: 
If you do decide to get your testosterone Free and Total checked out make sure you do first thing in the Morning or your test will show false results.

I would stay in there and let you body adjust to the med and try not to think about it so much :Wink: 

Good luck.

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## Buckerine11

Does anyone know if gynecomastia from Propecia always comes with initial tenderness of the breasts? 
Or can you get man-boobs without feeling anything?

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## dd11856

I am looking at stopping Propecia.  I have already reduced the dosage to only three times a week and the side effects haven't gone away.  What are some alternative treatments that won't give the same side effects?

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## joeh4n

That must have been a scary experience. I will consult my doctor before taking Propercia :S

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## Mr. 4000

> Does anyone know if gynecomastia from Propecia always comes with initial tenderness of the breasts? 
> Or can you get man-boobs without feeling anything?


 The tenderness is surely a sign but I don't think you have to have the tenderness. Sometime times it is associated with being overweight (at least I heard that somewhere) but that is also indirectly related to the natural hormone levels in the body. Those with higher estrogen to test levels tend to have a great chance at getting gyno.????? SOmeone correct me if I'm off base here.......thanks

I'm not sure if it is related to higher estrogen levels in the body but I think I heard that someone.

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## zee_1973

Hi Optic_Eye:

I came across your original post in this thread and found it to be extremely informative and useful.

I have been on Propecia for the past 8 years. I must say that the drug completely stopped my hair-loss. However, over time I began feeling a very slight decrease in libido over time. I didnt have a steady girlfriend during that time so the occasional sex was good, but slowly but surely libido was falling. I attributed it to age (I am turning 38). I always had a very strong libido during my 20s and even at times when I was on propecia, but I didnt feel concerned about it.

I started seeing my girlfriend last year and we got married 4 months ago. The sex has been good but infrequent. I could completely relate to your story (penis being numb, sex seeming like a chore sometimes). The urge for sex would come on and off, but became highly inconsistent. Just two weeks back, the drive was back big time, but then it disappeared once again.

I refuse to believe that at 38 my drive has gone down so much due to age alone. I am very active and fit guy, and I have decided to get off Propecia. I have been off it for less than a week now, and the libido is still super quiet right now.

I do not think that having no hair-loss is more preferable to the loss of libido with the love of my life. I will probably get a hair transplant when the hair start falling out. My only concern right now is to get the healthy sex life back. 

I wanted to let you know that your post was the single biggest factor in me deciding that Propecia is history for me. 

Would love to hear your update since you have been off Propecia for almost three years now.

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## Dr Dan McGrath

Hello Zee_1973,
I am happy to hear that you have found the love of your life but sad to hear that Propecia may be interfering with that love.
As a physician and more specifically a hair restoration specialist I prescribe a fair amount of Propecia and I am always at odds when I here report like yours and Optic Eye's.
As doctors we really do want the best for our patients and so when we have a situation arise where we need ti choose the lesser of two evils it can make for a hard(no pun intended) choice. As I have said before though in these posts, This is hair not life or death.
For the vast majority of patients Propecia works well and most have no side effects at all. Of course I would tell you that if you have not seen a change in the sex drive with a month I would strongly urge you to do some hormone levels with your physician and make sure that they dont just check the free and total testosterone, but the estadiol and shbg (sex hormone binding globulin) levels as well.
Propecia may well be the culprit but not all libido issues are.
I wish you the best and would be happy to help out in any way I can.

Sincerely,

Dr Dan McGrath

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## Aznstan

Hi my question, and this is for anybody, is if you have a hair transplant aren't the hairs you transplanted from the back/sides supposed to not be affected by DHT and hairloss even when you don't/stop taking propecia?  Ive heard doctors recommend taking propecia to keep the HT hair thicker but is prop. supposed to not make the new HT hair fall out permanently?

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## Dr Dan McGrath

Dear Aznstan,
Great question. The truth is that all the hair on your head is going to be affected to one degree or another by the presence of DHT.
The donor hair we use for transplant should not be affected to any great degree such that it would not grow. Having said that though when you look at the donor hair region of a patient who uses propecia you can't argue with the fact that the hair in its caliper size(shaft size) gets bigger.
So the use of propecia in a hair transplant is twofold really, protecting the existing hair and helping to thicken up the donor hair which of course will translate into a better cosmetic result with the transplant.

Hope this helps,

Dr Dan

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## Follicle Death Row

Whoa. I had not heard that about the donor hair. Interesting. Thanks for the info Dr. McGrath. Just one quick question: Do you consider the timelines for Aderans and Histogen to be realistic?

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## SBTRKT

Did you get better optic eye?

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## Nitro

Dr Dan,

I've been on Propecia for 11 yrs and within the last year or two started experiencing lower libido, weaker erections, etc.  Be only 35 yrs. old I thought this was too early to be an age related problem and figured it had something to do with the long term usage of propecia.  I spoke to my doctor about the issues I was having and he suggested we do some blood work to see if my testosterone was normal.  It ended up coming back a little low so he prescribed a low dosage of Axiron(test gel) to help get me back to where I need to be.  It's been a week now and I feel incredible!  My libido is coming back, my mood is improved, and I have energy again.  

At this point in my life I wasn't ready to give up the propecia since it has worked well for me and I've been able to keep a majority of my hair.  My question for you is will taking the test gel effect the propecia in a negative way?  Since the gel is being applied to the skin will it produce DHT and in turn get to my head?  I know propecia is a DHT blocker but will it block whatever is bring applied to my skin.  I don't think my doctor would have prescribed it to me if it wasn't safe but in your opinion does this program okay?

Thanks for any info you might have on this subject.

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## rockydsouza

This is my biggest fear. I just started with it.  :Frown:  Will consult more with doc.

Thanks for sharing experience.

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## BientotChauve

I have been using finasteride for 1.5 years , I used  propecia for 6months  and then Finpecia. Except the lack of results regarding my hair, no problem with sex.

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## samjone36

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15913872

Use the link above and see for yourself. Claritan (Loratadine) has been clinically determined to solve erectile dysfunction in men. I suffered from sexual dysfunction for many years after discontinuing propecia and stumbled upon this by accident. I tried Claritan for an allergy and the next day I noticed that I had regained full erectile function. Try it please and never give up hope.

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## Johny.track131

im bumping this thread for the last post above this one even though i havent tried propecia, but can anyone try samjone's advice and see if it helps relieve their side effects? This can give many many people new confidence in trying propecia!

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## clandestine

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15913872
> 
> Use the link above and see for yourself. Claritan (Loratadine) has been clinically determined to solve erectile dysfunction in men. I suffered from sexual dysfunction for many years after discontinuing propecia and stumbled upon this by accident. I tried Claritan for an allergy and the next day I noticed that I had regained full erectile function. Try it please and never give up hope.


 Good find.

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## Johny.track131

bumping this again for the post quoted by clandestine^ I just hope it helps anyone

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## clandestine

Good bump! I think more people suffering from sexual sides from finasteride use should try loratadine and see if they in any way resolve.




> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15913872
> 
> Use the link above and see for yourself. Claritan (Loratadine) has been clinically determined to solve erectile dysfunction in men. I suffered from sexual dysfunction for many years after discontinuing propecia and stumbled upon this by accident. I tried Claritan for an allergy and the next day I noticed that I had regained full erectile function. Try it please and never give up hope.

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## chris123

I was on propecia for about 5 years and I would've swore I had no side effects. 75% of the time i could perform no problem, and the times i couldn't, I blamed limpness on tiredness.  Now, 2 months later and off of propecia, I realize I hadn't performed at 100% for years!!  I'm 32 and I swear i feel like a teenager again. It only took about 5 days off of propecia to notice the difference.   I've been taking a combo of Beta Sisterol and Saw Palmetto complex and so far so good.  Still early but I haven't noticed any additional hair loss.

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## clandestine

> I was on propecia for about 5 years and I would've swore I had no side effects. 75% of the time i could perform no problem, and the times i couldn't, I blamed limpness on tiredness.  Now, 2 months later and off of propecia, I realize I hadn't performed at 100% for years!!  I'm 32 and I swear i feel like a teenager again. It only took about 5 days off of propecia to notice the difference.   I've been taking a combo of Beta Sisterol and Saw Palmetto complex and so far so good.  Still early but I haven't noticed any additional hair loss.


 Could you clarify what you mean when you say that you feel like a teenager again? i.e. you've come of propecia and sides have subsided?

Did you buy your SPC and beta sis online, or local?
Thanks

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## gutted

> I was on propecia for about 5 years and I would've swore I had no side effects. 75% of the time i could perform no problem, and the times i couldn't, I blamed limpness on tiredness.  Now, 2 months later and off of propecia, I realize I hadn't performed at 100% for years!!  I'm 32 and I swear i feel like a teenager again. It only took about 5 days off of propecia to notice the difference.   *I've been taking a combo of Beta Sisterol and Saw Palmetto complex and so far so good.*  Still early but I haven't noticed any additional hair loss.


 this increase is due to the saw palmetto and beta sis.

in the coming weeks monitor your hairline, and libido, i suspect it to drop around the 2nd or 3rd month.

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## khan

> I was on propecia for about 5 years and I would've swore I had no side effects. 75% of the time i could perform no problem, and the times i couldn't, I blamed limpness on tiredness.  Now, 2 months later and off of propecia, I realize I hadn't performed at 100% for years!!  I'm 32 and I swear i feel like a teenager again. It only took about 5 days off of propecia to notice the difference.   I've been taking a combo of Beta Sisterol and Saw Palmetto complex and so far so good.  Still early but I haven't noticed any additional hair loss.


 The first month i took saw palmetto, I felt like I was 15 again too. It was insane the first month. Then things went back to normal. But in my case the SPH cause my thing to sky-rocket the first month.

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## gutted

> The first month i took saw palmetto, I felt like I was 15 again too. It was insane the first month. Then things went back to normal. But in my case the SPH cause my thing to sky-rocket the first month.


 i noticed this too, but the effect weared off after a few weeks.

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## damielmillo

Hey!! this is a great find. I have been suffering for ED now for 2 years after discontuniation of propecia...You say that this help you?
How is the intake? Do you have a better libido with this?
Propecia is a poison and has ruined my life. Hope this can help me.
Thanks!!





> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15913872
> 
> Use the link above and see for yourself. Claritan (Loratadine) has been clinically determined to solve erectile dysfunction in men. I suffered from sexual dysfunction for many years after discontinuing propecia and stumbled upon this by accident. I tried Claritan for an allergy and the next day I noticed that I had regained full erectile function. Try it please and never give up hope.

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## chris123

> i noticed this too, but the effect weared off after a few weeks.


 Right now, libido is through the roof so are the erections. I wasn't sure if this was because I stopped propecia or if this is natural or if the effects of saw palmetto and beta sisterol are playing a role. So what did happens after the effects wear off?  Is libido down to average levels or below average?  Did hair loss accelerate?

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## clandestine

> Right now, libido is through the roof so are the erections. I wasn't sure if this was because I stopped propecia or if this is natural or if the effects of saw palmetto and beta sisterol are playing a role. So what did happens after the effects wear off?  Is libido down to average levels or below average?  Did hair loss accelerate?


 Did you buy your SPC and beta sis online, or local?
Thanks

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## chris123

bought them online at walgreens.com.  I noticed a couple weeks ago they sell the beta at my local grocery store so I will be buying there from now on just for convenience.

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## clandestine

> bought them online at walgreens.com.  I noticed a couple weeks ago they sell the beta at my local grocery store so I will be buying there from now on just for convenience.


 Nice. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

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## gutted

> Right now, libido is through the roof so are the erections. I wasn't sure if this was because I stopped propecia or if this is natural or if the *effects of saw palmetto and beta sisterol are playing a role*. So what did happens after the effects wear off?  Is libido down to average levels or below average?  Did hair loss accelerate?


 it is very most likley the effects of saw pallmetto and beta sis.

monitor your hairline, shed levels/scalp itching and sebum levels, in the next few weeks, and report back...because you jumped on the saw pal and beta sis it _could_ accelarate your hair loss.

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## clandestine

> monitor your sebum levels, in the next few weeks


 lol

10char

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## fab

I got Claritin and took one, no change. Didn't have guts to take more.. It's a good find indeed,  but I will try to find other ways. Going to do a check up on my prostate.

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## gutted

> lol
> 
> 10char


 dont really understand what the lol was for??? lol

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## sausage

Is this a sudden thing that can happen, could I wake up one day and no longer be able to get an erection?

or does the erection gradually weaken?

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## SoothSayer

> Is this a sudden thing that can happen, could I wake up one day and no longer be able to get an erection?
> 
> or does the erection gradually weaken?


 Both situations occur.  Some men find that the change happens instantaneously where others find that there is a gradual decline.

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## sausage

> Both situations occur.  Some men find that the change happens instantaneously where others find that there is a gradual decline.


 oh FFS I do wonder why I am taking this stuff.

Was talked into it by people on here. Not sure why ppl promote something that can cause your **** to die.

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## skipstah70

To all the side effects naysayers, you might want to listen to this *medical professional* who did a study.....

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## chris123

> it is very most likley the effects of saw pallmetto and beta sis.
> 
> monitor your hairline, shed levels/scalp itching and sebum levels, in the next few weeks, and report back...because you jumped on the saw pal and beta sis it _could_ accelarate your hair loss.


 Reporting back....  Im approaching the 5 month mark on beta sis and SP.  Around the 3rd month, I had some major shedding that lasted for about 2 or 3 weeks. I thought within weeks or a couple months I would be completely bald at the rate my hair was falling out.  I work on a computer all day and when I looked down at the keyboard, there would literally be hundreds of strands of hair there by the afternoon.  Really had me freaked out and I almost stopped taking this combo.  No matter what, I wasn't going to take propecia again so I figured just ride this out and see what happens.  Now, i'm around the 5 month mark and I believe I still have the same amount of hair as I did when I stopped taking propecia 5 months ago.  The one thing I find odd is about a month ago, I have all these gray hairs popping up everywhere. Not just in the temples, but on the top of my head. I'm not sure if this is a side effect or if these are new hairs regrowing without any pigmentation. (wishful thinking).  I'm only 32 and never saw a gray hair on my head till a few weeks ago.  Maybe it's natural, but the timing seems odd.   And as far as erections go, I can't tell you how glad I am that I stopped taking propecia.  In hindsight, I realize that erections were never at 100% when I took propecia. Going soft during sex was common and probably happened around a 3rd of the time.  Not one time have I experieced this since I've stopped taking propecia.

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## karnige

Hi guys. I wanted to give my 2 cents. I have been taking propecia for over a year. the hair loss stopped a lot. but I developed gynecomastia on 1 side of the chest and started the second. I didn't no it was a side effect. the doctor didn't know either and dismissed it at 1st. I stopped taking it. If this can happen there is no way I want a sexual side effect. I'm only 29. Going to try other alternatives. its disheartening because it was working. such is life. health is more importment remember that folks.

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## Cantbelieveit

Dont know if anyone still reads this but im here so people stil might. 
Been on propecia for 2.5 months only sides i had was semen was a bit watery and balls ached for a few days, ive had no issues getting strong erections or maintaining them until yesterday when i was watching some porn and wasnt really getting a strong erection. Now today i cant even get an erection which has never happened to me before now. Its like a switch has been flicked it was that fast. Needless to say im really really scared and upset at the moment, im not going to take propecia anymore. Im praying and hoping that this is very temporary as i dont know what i ll do if it isnt. 
Im 29 years old by the way and also i think propecia may be causing me to have heart palpitations as it pretty much started after i started taking propecia. 
It did bring back some of my hair to a level i was happy with but id give it up instantly to be my old self again. 
Its still early days but im just scared that ive ruined my life, im even about to start dating the girl of my dreams and now dont know what im going to do. 
I ll try to update what happens to me but this is to also help people who are conflicted whether to take propecia or not, id say dont do it, just not worth it.

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## Cantbelieveit

Ok i got a boner this morning so thats a bit of a plus, id say it was about 85% of what it normally is. 
Ive fully been scared off propecia im not going to use it again, rather have a D that works than hair. 
So gonna go cold turkey and throw the rest of the propecia away, hopefully i ll be back to normal really soon and have no relapse or what people have been describing as a crash. 
I ll try to keep this thread updated for others to read.

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## Cantbelieveit

Still updating.
Watching porn still doesnt really get me a real erection the way it did like a week ago, manual stimulation is needed to get there or there about. I think the load of my semen is less than what it notmally was .
Erection probably stil 85% so not the best, still necer gonna touch propecia again and im going to by some vitamins that aid production of testosterone because i lnow for a fact it wasnt a mental issue at least to begin with.
Now everytime i try to get an erection i worry can i get one or will i get one so that might be effecting me now to be honest. Hopefully the day will come where i just get a raging boner without thinkig about it, hopefully one day soon.
Gotta stay positive i guess.

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## Cantbelieveit

Ive just realised that ive taken propecia for 3.5 months not 2.5. O forgot about the first months prescription i was only counting what i had in my 3 month prescription. So was on it longer than what i thought, so potentially done more damage to myself that what i first realised. 
I can get boners from watching certain porn so that seems to he working again, erections might be at 85-90% but not rock hard. It probably depends upon how excited i get, it would probably be really hard if i had a lady friend here lol but until then i guess i wont fully know. 
Scared for what may still come as the crash that people have talked about but ive also read many stories of people noticing ED problems and stopping straight away and having the problems go away in a few weeks. I stopped the instant i realised my erections was in trouble so hopefully i caught it in time but if i havent then sure enough that would just be my luck as im an unlicky person most of the time.
I know i keep updating but its sort of for myself as well so that i can document what happened to me as well as warning others so i hope i wont have to keep updating this for much longer and everything goes back to normal, fingers crossed.

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## Cantbelieveit

Update on whats happenening so far. Things seem to be heading back to normal as of right now, morming wood has returned and i can start to get boners bybjust thinking of sexual things which wasnt the case a few days back. So hopefully i keep improving and again i ll never touch propecia again for as long as i live.

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## coppersocks

Hi Cantbelieveit, I think I'm in the same boat as you, if not worse. Been on it four months with no sides. Last saturday I tried to rub one out to no avail. I kept taking the drug till Monday and I've had two boners since then, both times to watching porn early in the morning. My libido is non existent and I couldn't get it up to porn this morning. I'm extremely worried right now as my energy levels are steadily decreasing also and I can barely get out of bed for prolonged periods of time. I'll let you know how I go.

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## sellig

I can't really tell you if this is an equivalent of Propecia but I use RU58841 - I am getting good results with it, you can google it - here is a link as well http://www.ru58841.info/

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## zgyb2

I just had FUE surgery done around two weeks ago and was talked into buying a one month supply of Propecia. I'm still recovering from sexual dysfunction from taking anti-depressants a few years back and didn't want to risk it again-- glad I decided to do research and found this thread.

My doctor keeps insisting that there's only a 1~2% chance of side effects; do they have a monetary incentive to promote people into taking Propecia? Anyways, not worth the risk of being dead sexually again, think I'll toss my prescription in the garbage.

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## Cantbelieveit

coppersocks i think the sooner u quit the better chance u will have of getting back to normal. I think im pretty much back to normal, i dont get absoloute raging boners rubbing one out but i dont really think i ever really did, only when i was having sex and was really excited id get them. I aint had sex with anyone yet since this happened so that will be the ultimate proof if im back to normal. I threw what propecia i had left in the bin, im back to having sexual dreams more often (not wet dreams though) and having morning erections etc. I think im still not producing the volume of semen i was before but i ll see how i get on. 
Just have to accept going bald, the problem i have is that ive got a very young looking face im 29, 30 this year and people think im 21/22 so my face and hair domt go together plus my head shape isnt the best and ive got a bit of a big head lol but i still seem to attract very good looking women so i dunno. The reason i was taking propecia was more for my self confidence really so i felt comfortable in how i looked. 
Ffs i should never of taken that shit. 
Looks mean nothing if u can attract women and u cant do anything sexually because propecia killed ur boner. Quit that shit.

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## coppersocks

Oh I have gotten off it. Been 9 days now. Luckily boner haven't been back since yesterday. That being said I'm having extreme difficulty sleeping which is causing very bad energy levels and mind fog. My biggest worry now is that I experience the crash that renders this long term. Do you mind telling me what you went through when you quit? Did you experience a crash after you quit? Fatigue or anything like that? And for how long? Thanks for your reply.

And yeah you're absolutely right. I couldn't give a **** about going bald tbh after going through this. I just want it over. My beardless Babyface be damnded!

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## Cantbelieveit

Coppersocks ive only been off it myself now for around 12 days now so if there is a crash to come it hasnt hit me yet but im trying not think like that so hopefully we'll be ok and hopefully got off it in time that we havent done damage to our body. The only thing i noticed was a little but of gyno and watery semen. It simply just hit me the other week when i struggled to get a erection then the day after i couldnt get one at all so i stopped straight away and gradually been getting back to normal. Semen has gone back to being thicker but i think its a bit less than normal, i was just thinking im not sure if the sensation i have when bussin a nut is a bit diminished as well. 
I have no problems sleeping and im always pretty much tired anyway, a few years back i actually thought i was dying because i was so tired all the time so i went for blood tests which came back fine so im just a naturally tired person i guess lol. 
From what ive read from the propecia help webpage i think it says it takes about 2-4 weeka to fully get back to normal and for most things doctors say 6 weeks anyway so i ll see what the crack is when i get to that moment in time. If i get to that point and feel fine then i ll stop thinking about a crash because the human mind is a powerful tool and could mentally destroy myself if i continue to think like that.

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## coppersocks

Cantbelieveit, Ok I think we're pretty much in the same boat then atm. My erections are for the large part fine. Harder to maintain than pre fin but it is what it is and it's so much better than it was a week ago. I'm gonna do what you are doing and try just not to think about the crash. I would say I'm for the large part back to my normal self but I would definitely say I had it a bit worse than you initially as I had the energy and concentration levels were of someone who had the flu. I hadn't noticed any gyno at all but my semen was watery particularly during the first few months of taking fin and then it went back to normal. My sleep is still being disrupted somewhat and I still haven't slept throughout a full night. A couple of nights ago I literally woke up every hour so I got no REM sleep and I had an awful day at college with extreme fatigue but last night I managed to get about 5 hours uninterrupted and then got a few more so feeling better again today. I think this means that my hormones are still out but I'm just taking everyday as it comes. Couple things I've been doing that I feel have been beneficial; Cold showers for a minute or so twice a day as its good for the immune system and helps boost testosterone (I do it after my warm shower), meditation (more specifically Wim Hof's breathing techniques as it helps ALOT with the anxiety caused by this type of stress and again it's been proven to be extremely beneficial to the immune system so hopefully this translates to the endocrine system somewhat), eating healthy with little carbs as spikes in blood sugar can affect hormonal regulation, and I've also been taking a lot of vitamins (B complex, C, D 2000 and zinc).
Good luck man, I'll keep you posted as I go.

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## Cantbelieveit

Yeah mate im taking vitamins as well, im taking vitamin D3, vitamin B3(niacin) and folic acid. 
To help boost testosterone and erections as sad as that sounds being 29 n all. But as of yesterday my dickheads been hurting a little bit like how it hurts if uve rubbed one too many out and it also hurts like ive been using sand paper to rub one out as well. Very weird, i may have had this happen to me before propecia but im not too sure.
Back to playing the waiting game.....

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## coppersocks

Just a heads up, it's advised not to ejaculate too often during this period as it can stress out your endocrine system. I'm trying to do it only once every 5 or 6 days or so. I'm feeling slight twinges in my balls every now and then, not dissimilar to blue balls but nothing too serious. Hopefully that feeling you had will go away in the near future, at my worst a few days ago I felt really uncomfortable and numb like it was getting no circulation so I sat with a hot water bottle on it every evening, definitely helped. Ha this is seriously the most I've talked about me junk to anyone. Anyway, hopefully both of ours will be fine! Onwards and upwards.

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## marklin

Delete

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## Cantbelieveit

yeah i ll stop whacking it for a while, i still think my erections are still not right as in they aint rock hard, i know i said i hardly got them like that anymore without being super aroused but i know before fin and even up til about 2 weeks ago they were definately stronger than what it is now. I hoped this wouldnt happen to me, looks like my luck is no good. But still a few more weeks to go and i ll see where im at.

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## CanadianGuy

> Thanks for posting that. I totally hear you about impotence making one feel like "half a man".
> 
> That is my biggest fear that is holding me back from starting Propecia! What good is a full head of hair if you can't perform?!


 Yeah, I was surprised that you didn't notice any side effects when you first started taking Propecia.

I first started 5mg Proscar a few months back when I was visiting South America and within about 3-4 days noticed minimal libido and shrinkage of my balls. Naturally I freaked out and stopped and it was back to normal within a week. Been scared to death since of trying any oral methods such as Propecia or Proscar again. I wish I was black so I could look good bald it seems only Stone Cold, Jason Statham, Vin Diesel, and Bruce Willis could pull off being bald and white. Though take away their millions and they're average joes not getting the same hot women no doubt.

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## Cantbelieveit

Mate stay away from propecia, ive been sitting here thinking how much of a twat ive been for having even starting it. 
At the moment i was feeling ok but now im not so sure i feel physically sick at what ive probably done to myself. Im so worried that i kinda wish i could jump a few weeks into the future to see if i ll be ok. I was thinking about it, my balls ached for a 2 days when i first started and i did have watery semen and a bit of gyno i think but nothing else and then i get 1 weak erection the one day and cant get a boner the next. Ive read about this happening to people and they continued to use propecia and it cleared up for them but i literally quit as soon as i noticed a real physical problem with my erection. I just hope i stopped in time i literally cant see a future for myself right now. The constant worry is making me sick. My erection is still weak just not the same. Im trying so hard to be positive but i just cant, writing this is the only self help ive got right now. Wish i never took propecia. I feel so low. Sorry to keep posting all this.
Think its best if i try to stay away from the forum for a bit.

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## coppersocks

Just a headup. My sides have returned since yesterday morning. Didn't really notice until last night when I tried to pop one off and had extreme difficulty getting it up. Had trouble sleeping last night with waking up every hour or so and feel quite foggy and tired today. Pretty depressed by this latest development. Thought if I could make it through a couple of weeks then I'd be in the clear. Hopefully my hormones balance out again as I was feeling back to my full self for a couple of days there. Good luck to you man, I'll keep you updated on myself.

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## Cantbelieveit

For me ive not been anywhere near what id consider normal for me. Erections very weak if i can get them at all. I think id of still had these sides even if i had continued propecia. I keep getting pain in my urethra so dunno what thats about. I waited 5 days and did rub one out, my semen is back to normal and the volume as well. Yeah i think im just lacking libido right now and blood flow to my D. 
Ive read stuff on other forums which has given more hope of recovery but if so it ll probably be a long one. I hope not, think its day 18 now since ive been off propecia. Im in a little bit of a better place than my last post mentally. Oh i do actually feel stronger than when i was on propecia but i care more about my boners and sex drive than physical strength right now. Once again just continue to wait and hope things improve, hopefully for all of us mate. Couldnt pay me all the millions in the world to take propecia again i swear to god. I actually read on another forum some guy had same sides as us, got back to normal after 6 months and then went back on to propecia because his hair started to thin again. Lord behold 5 months later hes back having sexual side effects again, how stupid do u have to be after the first time only to get better and then do it to urself again, no thank you. All the best lads i ll continue to update as well.

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## coppersocks

Quick update myself. Sides miraculous began clearing last night within the course of a few hours. I feel about 85% back to normal at present, erection and libido about that too. I can't quite believe it to be honest as I thought that would be me for at least a few weeks to months. I'm not lighting fireworks yet as there's still the chance of another crash but I'm just gonna take the quick turnaround as a sign that my body is actively fighting this thing. The difference in how I feel now in comparison to yesterday is staggering, I was incredibly depressed looking at the possibility having having to defer in college as there was no chance I'd be able to complete the semester in the state I was in. It amazing how much hormones impact every facet of ourselves. Anyway bud hope you're well and we get better, hopefully after all this we can meet up for a drink and laugh about the time we nearly ****ed up or bodies trying to keep our hair. Judging by your posts you from ireland/UK?

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## Cantbelieveit

Yeah mate im from England and i swear to god u aint gonna believe this but i woke up this morning feeling great with an absoloute hard on, i just feel so different, i feel right. The last few weeks ive felt like a shell of a man but today i feel complete. Its as if a switch has been turned on again, i rubbed one out earlier and erection was still rock hard and semen back to normal and the volume as well as the sensation. Its so dumb like i felt a twinge in my dick and i knew it was back to normal operation as for now anyway, it was like the film spiderman 2 when he was having trouble with his powers and later on he just knew he was back to normal and strong again if u get me lol. Only way i can describe it.
Im glad ur better mate and i hope ur back to normal forever as to i hope i am as well. 
Just gonna have to go bald gracefully, propecia or anything like it is never gonna be an option for me ever again. 
Although i still have a weird pain in my urethra bit of a stining pain but i can live with that no problem, lol and no its not a std. I ll continue to update as things go along, i feel optimistic about life again and for the powers of recovery. I dont want to get too excited cause its day 1 of me feeling practically 100% again so just got to keep the faith and take each day as it comes.
P.s i said to someone the otherday hopefully one day i can look back and laugh at how stupid i was using propecia, it would have been cool if we were in the same country etc to get that drink cause it might sound dumb but having someonw else go through what im going through at the exact same time really helped me along and ur posts helped me out as well bro they really did so thanks for sharing and heres to a full recovery fingers crossed  :Smile: .

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## coppersocks

Well I'm from the Uk (scouser) and I live in Ireland man so anything might happen, this has helped me loads too. Propeciahelp is way too depressing and those on reddit seem to have zero interest for anyone who says anything negative about propecia, dismissing everyone who experiences sides as a lunatic so it's good to be able to just share my experience with someone going through the same thing.
Anyway it basically seems like my hormones don't know what they're at. My libido can be anywhere from betweek 10%-70% and every now and then I get brain fog especially after I eat. The severity of my sides seems to switch up every 12 hours or so. Woke up with wood feeling good this morning if a bit groggy because neighbours dog was barking all night but about an hour after breakfast I'm having difficulty concentrating and I feel like I'm doing uni work through a fog. Gotta just get on with it though. I have full confidence I'll feel right and they'll balance out in the next few months but it's just annoying to keep having mini recoveries and then little crashes, really has been a rollercoaster this past week or so but that's miles better than the previous 10 days or so.
I'll continue to updating here for yourself and anyone in the future who might be go through the same shit we have.
I'll PM you my email sure and we can maybe look to grab a drink sure if we're ever in the same city at the same time.

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## Cantbelieveit

Yeah mate ur bang on with thise other forums so depressing reading them, thats why i got so worked up over the sexual sides i was getting. I dont care what anyone says there is now way the sexual sides are in ur head, no way. Its the drug that messes you up not ur own thinking. Granted if ur thinking about trying to get a boner u ll find it hard regardless of being on propecia or not but nah i dont care i could get a boner over almost anything, a woman only has to look at me a certain way and id get a boner. All those nay sayers are absoloute pricks. I knew about the possible side effects but i was horny all the way through my time on propecia until 3 weeks ago then nothing, my dong just stopped working and i had no connection from it to my brain at all thats how i knew it wasnt me because it was instant, not gradual. 
I hope i stay the way i am right now or better if i can get more better now. I dont know if i ll have a crash, i hope not but its not like i recovered within a week then regressed. Its taken 3 weeks so far and im only getting better now so i dunno i just hope and pray for the best. Still i aint counting my chickens just yet. 
But yeah im from birmingham and also live there still. Lol yeah if our paths ever cross pal defo and PM me if u want to but i dont know how it works lol im not very computer literate these days. I wrote a lil diary day by day keeping track of what happened so i ll pit that up soon. Erm i rubbed out another one today and it seems to be working fine, my dickehead feels a bit like ive whacked off 3 times or something right now so it hurts a tad. Just wanted to see but i wont be rubbing one out for a few days now so i can rest my ding dong. I ll continue to post as well cause im still hetting heart palpitations which i do think is from propecia. So until next time keep it easy and i pray for the powers of recovrry to stay with us pal. Hopefully my next post will still be positive.  :Smile:

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## coppersocks

Just a quick update with my sides. Thursday was the best day I've since I stopped taking the drug, felt horny as ever all day. However since some of my sides have returned in a way. Last night I had that dreaded cold feeling in my balls and dick and libido dropped. It's weird whenever this happens I also become less responsive to things I previously enjoyed, I don't get as much pleasure out of watching a movie or listening to music and even food doesn't taste as good which causes my appetite to diminish. Also there seems to be a couple of varicose veins appearing on my sack and bottom of my shaft, along with continued ball ache since yesterday.  This morning I woke up horny but my dick still felt unresponsive, I watched some porn and it was fine but I definitely wasn't enjoying it as much as I was pre fin and there was less sensation in my penis too. Again it's a long road and we'll get there but it's really annoying the difference between 100% me and days where I feel like I'm less responsive to the hormones in my body. It saps a lot of the enjoyment and motivation out of the day. Anyway hope you're still on the mend, I'm gonna go to the gym to try and force my body into a reaction!

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## inbrugge

I used topical fin for about a month at a low dosage, and some RU for about 2 weeks. 

Just within that short period, I developed gyno and delivered a blow to my libido. Luckily, after dropping the pills, my libido somewhat recovered (still not where I used to be).

It's been about 1.5-2 years since I quit, and I'm still not back to 100%. I feel very lucky that I still get morning wood and can pop an erection if I have to (sometimes have to warm up a bit). And my ejaculate is still not as full as it used to be (not as watery as when I was using the pills).

Has anyone here seen a doctor and got some advice from them regarding usage?
Any positive stories about improvement due to treatments?

Thanks

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## Cantbelieveit

Im glad that ur getting better coppersocks, sucks that u feel that ur having such highs then the sides comeback a bit. It does sound like ur on the mend though, im still going strong i feel that im back to normal now but still dont wanna jinx myself. 
Still having some heart palpitations but they seem to be calmingvdown a bit.
Id say just keep doing what ur doing mate and hitting the gym might work, its meant to up ur testosterone. 
Look forward to ur reply and hopefully it ll be a better one. 
I ll be back to post again.
P.s Inbrugge ive not seen a doctor about anything so im sorry but im no help with ur question mate, hopefully we ve started the thread back up again so it mightbbring in new people who may be able to answer ur questions. Best of luck pal.

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## Cantbelieveit

just stopping by for a quick update, everything is normal with me no ed or any problems like that. Think ive been back to normal for 5-6 weeks now and no more heart palpitations as well. 
Hair does look thinner but hey what u gonna do, id rather my dick work than a good head of hair.
Hope everyones good and i might stop by again to see if anyone updates. 
Just to clarify i stopoed propecia and took sides 3-4 weeks to properly go away.

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## CanadianGuy

Yes, it was fascinating to me that after 3 days of taking the 1.25mg Proscar dosage that the testicular shrinkage occurred. Even crazier, and thank the gods it happened, that about a week after stopping it the rush of hormones came back over a 48 hr span and the erections were vicious and plentiful like when I was an athlete in high school. 

Stem cells are without a doubt the future to ending baldness, we'll see if Kyocera and the others can make good on their aggressive 2020 timeline.

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## MickMick

You may try my trick I use to maintain rock hard erections after 11 years of using Proscar.
You MUST masturbate at least once a day! Your mind will subconsciously keep the erection going, especially if you masturbate first thing in the morning it will help you keep that morning glory!

I have noticed decrease in thickness of my load however recently I started using Menevit and it seems it has increased the thickness of my sperm, but Im still monitoring. That also could be normal with age. Im 40.

I am however less sensitive and can take if I want 2 hours of ****ing without cumming, however some guys may find that good I actually would not mind beeing able to cum faster in most situations if you get what I mean.

Perhaps try start using Proscar again and monitor your errections by above discipline and see how you go. It worked for me.

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## olex

So, its kinda Viagra alternative? 




> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15913872
> 
> Use the link above and see for yourself. Claritan (Loratadine) has been clinically determined to solve erectile dysfunction in men. I suffered from sexual dysfunction for many years after discontinuing propecia and stumbled upon this by accident. I tried Claritan for an allergy and the next day I noticed that I had regained full erectile function. Try it please and never give up hope.

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## online

I just hope it helps anyone

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## jacknap

> I used topical fin for about a month at a low dosage, and some RU for about 2 weeks. 
> 
> Just within that short period, I developed gyno and delivered a blow to my libido. Luckily, after dropping the pills, my libido somewhat recovered (still not where I used to be).
> 
> It's been about 1.5-2 years since I quit, and I'm still not back to 100%. I feel very lucky that I still get morning wood and can pop an erection if I have to (sometimes have to warm up a bit). And my ejaculate is still not as full as it used to be (not as watery as when I was using the pills).
> 
> Has anyone here seen a doctor and got some advice from them regarding usage?
> Any positive stories about improvement due to treatments?
> 
> Thanks


 dude I crashed from RU as well. How are you doing nowdayz? slowly recovering, libido is like 33% now too plus I have/had tons more issues.


here's like my full story/ bloods https://raypeatforum.com/community/t...1/#post-259431

hit me up!  :Smile:

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## Cantbelieveit

Hi all its been about a yeahr since i first posted on here. Just want to update for people who may be suffering from propecia. Im 100 percent fine these days, think ut qas like 2-3 months til i was fully back to normal after i quit prooecia. I was lucky i had no lasting side effects so this is just a positive post that you can get back to normal. Just wanted to leave some positive news for anyone who may have just started suffering as a result of propecia that things can get better. So i ll stop by time to time and check if anyone has any questions that i cam help them with.
 :Cool:

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## jacknap

> Hi all its been about a yeahr since i first posted on here. Just want to update for people who may be suffering from propecia. Im 100 percent fine these days, think ut qas like 2-3 months til i was fully back to normal after i quit prooecia. I was lucky i had no lasting side effects so this is just a positive post that you can get back to normal. Just wanted to leave some positive news for anyone who may have just started suffering as a result of propecia that things can get better. So i ll stop by time to time and check if anyone has any questions that i cam help them with.


 nice man! did u do anything in particular to recover?

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## pkipling

My experience wasn't as severe as yours, but over the course of taking propecia for a couple of years, I did notice a decrease in my libido/drive, the strength of my erections, and a major decrease in frequency in morning wood.... After a bunch of back and forth and wrestling with whether or not I should continue taking the medication, I finally stopped... Within a month, things turned back to normal - my erections cooperate with me just how I would like for them to, and I consistently wake up with an erection over half the time. I understand the risk of propecia is small and for many guys it's a life saver in terms of helping them save their hair/confidence, which is why the decision to take or not take it really is a personal decision that differs for every single one of us. 



_I am a patient advocate for Dr. Parsa Mohebi in Los Angeles, CA. My opinions/comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Dr. Mohebi and his staff._

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## Cantbelieveit

> nice man! did u do anything in particular to recover?


 Well at first i obviously panicked so stopped taking propecia the instant i realised i wasnt quite right. Then spent the next 2-3 weeks taking vitamins to help with production of testosterone and libido. Think i migjt have put what i tool in my original posts. Apart from that i didnt nothing else apart from worry and cry a good few times lol. It just came back to me naturally like the one night i just knew something had clicked back to normal and things were back on track . Honestly mate if there was anything i did to help myself i would share it in a instant cause having a dick that dont work because of propecia is no joke. Also i think a bit of the problem at least for me probably 5% of the problem became mental like constantly thinking about it and thinking i cant get a boner just didnt help me. Dont get me wrong the issue was propecia but overthinking didnt help me. So 95% propecia and 5% mental but only after propecia ****ed me up if you understand me. Im the type of guy that can just kiss my girlfriend and instantly get turned on, watching porn as well but when i had my crash if thats what people call it i couldnt even get mildly aroused watching shit loads of porn ( i didnt have a gf at this point). But yeah possibly my saving grace was telling a friend about it so someone knew what i was going through and just working, if i didnt have a job i probably would of been toast because too much thinking is not a good thing when left alone for long periods of time. 
Anyway have a read and reply, i ll come back and try to answer any questions u boys might have. 
Gotta spread the positive vibes because if it helps but 1 person i ll be happy cause there wasnt any positive posts out there when i was struggling. Best wishes lads, i ll be back.       :Smile:

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## Ahab

> Dear Aznstan,
> Great question. The truth is that all the hair on your head is going to be affected to one degree or another by the presence of DHT.
> The donor hair we use for transplant should not be affected to any great degree such that it would not grow. Having said that though when you look at the donor hair region of a patient who uses propecia you can't argue with the fact that the hair in its caliper size(shaft size) gets bigger.
> So the use of propecia in a hair transplant is twofold really, protecting the existing hair and helping to thicken up the donor hair which of course will translate into a better cosmetic result with the transplant.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Dr Dan


 I had transplants and when I later started taking propecia, not only did the transplanted hairs grow better but also the hair remaining in my donor area covered my scalp better.

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## lennon

Long story short + sharing the experience :There is no set time when a man should ejaculate during sex. But its probably too soon if you have an orgasm before intercourse or less than a minute after you start. Its a problem because when you ejaculate you lose your erection and cant continue having sex. You and your partner may feel theres not enough time to enjoy it. Its a common issue for men. I am personally have checked a bunch of mediCations, mediTations, sessions with a psychologist - and finally, last Friday, have found the thing priligy https://worldpharm365.com/product/pr...-with-bitcoin/ - now the sheriff has back in town, fellas!

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## jacknap

> I used topical fin for about a month at a low dosage, and some RU for about 2 weeks. 
> 
> Just within that short period, I developed gyno and delivered a blow to my libido. Luckily, after dropping the pills, my libido somewhat recovered (still not where I used to be).
> 
> It's been about 1.5-2 years since I quit, and I'm still not back to 100%. I feel very lucky that I still get morning wood and can pop an erection if I have to (sometimes have to warm up a bit). And my ejaculate is still not as full as it used to be (not as watery as when I was using the pills).
> 
> Has anyone here seen a doctor and got some advice from them regarding usage?
> Any positive stories about improvement due to treatments?
> 
> Thanks


 hey dude I crashed from using ru58841 myself. MY libido is still not back to normal 1.5 years later. Recovered about 50% from absolute nothing? I post on swole source so make an account an message me there cause I doubt I'll remember to check this site. I'm doing cdnuts protocol which he used to recover from post finasteride syndrome. It helps but having another RU crash guy along for the ride would be cool cause I do get paranoid since I crashed from RU not fin.

Is your libido back to normal? For me remaining sides are often I can't stay asleep like I used too, my face is a bit puffier than it used too, libido is not that high and I don't get aroused as easily. And a slight twitch on my right jaw. If you look at my thread on swole source I say my exact story and what not about it.

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## Manochoice

Too bad the the original poster didn't come back to update on his situation. I'd be so curious. I hope everybody else recovered from sides. It's interesting that almost every drug meant for hair loss has the possibility of killing one's sexual drive and boners (finasteride does, RU seems to do it, dutasteride, beta sitosterol, even SP could do)... what shitty options...

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