# Other Discussions > Hair Loss Rants >  Reconsidering my position on reproducing with the balding gene

## 25 going on 65

This subject has come up before on BTT. My position at one time was "a kid born today will never have to go bald, so it does not matter if you pass your crap hair genes on"
In light of the depressingly slow progress of new treatments, & realizing more and more how many sufferers can not actually stop androgenic alopecia w/ current meds....I am going to have to say it is wrong to have children if you have this gene

Things to consider:

-If your son gets on fin or dut at 18, he still could go bald or significantly balding
-Even in your kid's lifetime the advances in treatment might not be enough to ensure a fully dense NW1-2
-Your kid may be unlucky & not respond to new treatments just like some do not respond to fin/dut/minox
-Your kid may not even be a good transplant candidate if he is a diffuser

I am sure I could think of other things if I spent a little time.
Basically there are many reasons why people should not pass their genes on. *Androgenic alopecia is definitely one of them* until we have a REAL CURE to this disease

The biggest parenting mistake most people make is reproducing when their genes are not good enough. Do not be selfish

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## baldozer

> This subject has come up before on BTT. My position at one time was "a kid born today will never have to go bald, so it does not matter if you pass your crap hair genes on"
> In light of the depressingly slow progress of new treatments, & realizing more and more how many sufferers can not actually stop androgenic alopecia w/ current meds....I am going to have to say it is wrong to have children if you have this gene
> 
> Things to consider:
> 
> -If your son gets on fin or dut at 18, he still could go bald or significantly balding
> -Even in your kid's lifetime the advances in treatment might not be enough to ensure a fully dense NW1-2
> -Your kid may be unlucky & not respond to new treatments just like some do not respond to fin/dut/minox
> -Your kid may not even be a good transplant candidate if he is a diffuser
> ...


 Being bald does not mean you have bad genes. At worst, it means you have bad hair genes. But you could as well have bad eyes genes, bad nose genes, bad chin genes, low IQ genes and so on. Don't be such a prick!

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## Morbo

Mental illnesses are often genetically determined. So yeah, you probably shouldn't reproduce.

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## redy

> This subject has come up before on BTT. My position at one time was "a kid born today will never have to go bald, so it does not matter if you pass your crap hair genes on"
> In light of the depressingly slow progress of new treatments, & realizing more and more how many sufferers can not actually stop androgenic alopecia w/ current meds....I am going to have to say it is wrong to have children if you have this gene
> 
> Things to consider:
> 
> -If your son gets on fin or dut at 18, he still could go bald or significantly balding
> -Even in your kid's lifetime the advances in treatment might not be enough to ensure a fully dense NW1-2
> -Your kid may be unlucky & not respond to new treatments just like some do not respond to fin/dut/minox
> -Your kid may not even be a good transplant candidate if he is a diffuser
> ...


 
So, you're saying that because I have a cosmetic flaw that literally has no effect on anything else about me other than my current self-esteem, I shouldn't be allowed to have a kid?

Wait, I have glasses though...

Good thing fin will castrate me, right?

God bless the internet!

Or is this just your ridiculous rationalization to giving up on yourself because it's easier than shaving your head or not giving a shit about hair loss?

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## BigThinker

> So, you're saying that because I have a cosmetic flaw that literally has no effect on anything else about me other than my current self-esteem, I shouldn't be allowed to have a kid?


 THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

What about if: you're short, have an ugly nose, have acne, have eyes too far apart or oddly shaped, have very pale or very dark skin, have thin eye brows, have poor deltoid genetics, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.?????????????????????????????????? No kids for you?  Or is it literally one physical trait that you happen to be afflicted with that somehow magically holds precedence over every other undesirable physical trait?

Or, how about if you're a perfect male specimen appearance-wise but have a double digit IQ, family history of heart disease, suffer from depression and/or anxiety, and micropenia?  Does that somehow qualify a guy to pass on those shitty genes since people don't have to look at it?

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## Dan26

^^ Hey BigThinker bro how is fin/minox going for you lately

#noshamehijackingthisthread

I sware man we have almost the same hair, texture degree of loss and ive been on my regimen a lot shorter than you + dipping below baseline and mad shedding lately.

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## 25 going on 65

> Being bald does not mean you have bad genes. At worst, it means you have bad hair genes. But you could as well have bad eyes genes, bad nose genes, bad chin genes, low IQ genes and so on. Don't be such a prick!


 Unfortunately one bad gene can spoil an otherwise good pool of DNA




> Mental illnesses are often genetically determined. So yeah, you probably shouldn't reproduce.


 I am aware, thanks.




> So, you're saying that because I have a cosmetic flaw that literally has no effect on anything else about me other than my current self-esteem, I shouldn't be allowed to have a kid?


 Not saying you should not be allowed....just that it would be selfish & the children of the future deserve better odds than your hair genes can give them
(This is not personal, the same goes for me)




> Or is this just your ridiculous rationalization to giving up on yourself because it's easier than shaving your head or not giving a shit about hair loss?


 I said nothing about giving up on myself




> What about if: you're short, have an ugly nose, have acne, have eyes too far apart or oddly shaped, have very pale or very dark skin, have thin eye brows, have poor deltoid genetics, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.?????????????????????????????????? No kids for you? Or is it literally one physical trait that you happen to be afflicted with that somehow magically holds precedence over every other undesirable physical trait?
> 
> Or, how about if you're a perfect male specimen appearance-wise but have a double digit IQ, family history of heart disease, suffer from depression and/or anxiety, and micropenia? Does that somehow qualify a guy to pass on those shitty genes since people don't have to look at it?


 Most people SHOULD NOT reproduce & you list some of the possible reasons why
However the most obvious and often most important reasons are physical. Except in extreme cases (severe autism, being so stupid you cannot handle basic arithmetic, incurable suicidal depression, etc), looking like crap is basically the worst disadvantage you can have in life. And unfortunately hair loss beyond a certain point means looking like crap for most men

FYI I would not say all the things you listed are dealbreakers for having kids. Abnormally dark or light skin, thin eyebrows, lame deltoids can be fine. Depends on many other factors

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## Dan26

what if you end up reproducing with someone and the combination of your DNA yields a Jason Statham type kid?

Dawg look around there are plenty of bald guys who are at least average looking, if your in shape its a huge plus.

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## baldozer

> Looking like crap is basically the worst disadvantage you can have in life. *And unfortunately hair loss beyond a certain point means looking like crap for most men*


 I don't think so. If you are bald, at least make sure you are in shape, and grow some facial hair to take the attention away from the head and balance the face. Also helps if you are tall. So what I'm saying is that you can look pretty good even bald.

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## redy

Take a step back here,

think about part of your argument...

If being bald makes you ugly, shouldn't you just have kids with an ugly female with whatever characteristic you define as ugly?

Plenty of guys have attractive women in their lives and are bald - because they have decided that their hair doesn't define them as ugly.

Plenty of guys have ugly women in their lives and are bald - because they have decided that their hair defines them as ugly.

Obviously there are other cosmetic factors here, but try to think about that for a second.  If you think you're less attractive, why the do you deserve an attractive female? That girl didn't ask for her genetic acne scars and you didn't ask for your genetic baldness...  Sorry but not all of us are movie star material, that's why there are movie stars.

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## BigThinker

> ^^ Hey BigThinker bro how is fin/minox going for you lately
> 
> #noshamehijackingthisthread
> 
> I sware man we have almost the same hair, texture degree of loss and ive been on my regimen a lot shorter than you + dipping below baseline and mad shedding lately.


 Hey bro,

Shedding is nonexistent.  1-2 hairs on my hands tops when I shower.  I pass the pull test all day long; I'm talking like 5 consecutive pulls, zero hairs.  But, as you just said, I am indeed at least slightly below baseline.  The hairs *on* my head that are of "full" length are high quality.  Lots of tiny blonde hairs at the hairline from minox, but I don't suspect they'll ever go terminal. 

If you recall, I was shedding almost exclusively miniaturized hairs when I was going through my insanely long shed.  I think I was probably about done shedding from fin (~6 months) when I added minox which is when the shedding went nuts.  Finally on the other side of that and if shedding is indicative of a positive response to treatment, I think I might just preserve my NW2.5 after all.

Hoping to see regrowth to baseline, but I'll be content with keeping what I have.  Better part of 9 months on fin and about 2.5 months (I think) on minox -- still a while till regrowth.

How's all with you?




> Most people SHOULD NOT reproduce & you list some of the possible reasons why
> However the most obvious and often most important reasons are physical. Except in extreme cases (severe autism, being so stupid you cannot handle basic arithmetic, incurable suicidal depression, etc), looking like crap is basically the worst disadvantage you can have in life. And unfortunately hair loss beyond a certain point means looking like crap for most men
> 
> FYI I would not say all the things you listed are dealbreakers for having kids. Abnormally dark or light skin, thin eyebrows, lame deltoids can be fine. Depends on many other factors


 I like ya, bud, but you're starting to sound like Highlander.  We all know hair loss sucks.  That's why we're here.  This talk about not reproducing is absurd though, and I really think you know that and are just a bit shook up about something.

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## Dan26

Very very happy to hear the good news brother! It gets pretty rough when your sheddding like a MOFO, losing ground, and it seems like its only gonna get worse. That's basically whats happening to me now. I've been on kirkland minox since august and fin since august too. But i was only taking 0.25mg and it did nothing to my DHT so had to up it to 1mg beginning of October. To think a year ago considering fin was a huge deal for me and I was very against it, and now I am getting impatient and wanting to pop some muhf*ckin dut for Christs sake lol.

Ah well, our fate is in the hands of the MPB Gods now.

I, like you, would be pretty pleased just maintaining a nw2.5-2.8. Im tellin ya man worse part about MPB is the constant progression and fear of knowing what is in store if you don't stop it. Id take a nw2.5 with loss completely halted over a nw1 that is slowly slowly heading down hill any day.

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## 25 going on 65

> what if you end up reproducing with someone and the combination of your DNA yields a Jason Statham type kid?
> 
> Dawg look around there are plenty of bald guys who are at least average looking, if your in shape its a huge plus.


 You are a genuinely likeable poster but come on man, a bald guy who is average in looks is lucky....not common. Most bald guys I see day to day vary from terrible to below average
There are goodlooking bald guys like Statham, but they are SO rare it is just not worth the risk of having a kid. This is a human life we are gambling with




> I don't think so. If you are bald, at least make sure you are in shape, and grow some facial hair to take the attention away from the head and balance the face. Also helps if you are tall. So what I'm saying is that you can look pretty good even bald.


 These things can help but they do not come close to compensating for a lack of facial attractiveness (which baldness alone is enough to cause in most cases)
Your face is the #1 most important thing for being attractive, period. & almost all faces require at least a decent frame of hair to be goodlooking




> If being bald makes you ugly, shouldn't you just have kids with an ugly female with whatever characteristic you define as ugly?


 Why would you do that? The whole point is not to create ugly people




> Plenty of guys have attractive women in their lives and are bald - because they have decided that their hair doesn't define them as ugly.
> 
> Plenty of guys have ugly women in their lives and are bald - because they have decided that their hair defines them as ugly.
> 
> Obviously there are other cosmetic factors here, but try to think about that for a second. If you think you're less attractive, why the do you deserve an attractive female?


 I do not see "plenty" of bald guys with hot women. Yes it does happen, for the same reason any unattractive guy can date out of his league....by being a good/stable provider to one woman who will constantly be looking at other (better looking) guys and possibly sleeping with them at some point. 
Anyway appearances are about more than getting an attractive partner. I have already posted about how much better they can make your life in multiple ways, I won't repeat it here




> I like ya, bud, but you're starting to sound like Highlander. We all know hair loss sucks. That's why we're here. This talk about not reproducing is absurd though, and I really think you know that and are just a bit shook up about something.


 I am not like Highlander, he was a racist religious zealot. 
But damn right I feel shook up. The dut shed this year is wrecking me. I got very nice results on fin and felt I had a second chance at life....now I feel like I lost it again. The ongoing battle, the endless spending and pill popping, gaining ground and losing it again....very few people deserve this madness
I am serious about not reproducing. The balding gene ALONE completely changed the course of my young adulthood. When I think about what my 20s would have been like w/o this gene, it makes me sick
tbh the good run I had on fin almost makes it worse now. LIFE IS SO F*CKING AMAZING when women like how you look. There is nothing else to replace this, absolutely nothing

Guys who bald young (or guys who are aesthetically f*cked for any other reason) will simply never experience the best things in life, and knowingly creating a person like that is selfish. I have seen your stories about women on this forum, you KNOW how it feels to watch a pretty girl falling for you as she looks at you. You know how it feels to be wanted/chased/loved and NOT because of your money or because you happen to be in the right place at the right time (ie she is drunk, just broke up with her boyfriend, is mad at her group of friends, & will never want to see you again once she sobers up)
Do you think that experience will EVER come to a guy who looks like this? http://www.visualphotos.com/image/2x...bald_young_man

F*ck no, it will not. His life will never hold a candle to what it could have been, just because of his genes. Just because his parents wanted to roll the dice despite knowing they probably would lose.

We have every right to be pissed off at our parents. Mine knew exactly what was up. You know what my father said when I called him on it? "Yeah we were kind of hoping you would avoid that"
"Kind of hoping" a *dominant* gene skips your kid's generation is not a legitimate approach to creating another human life, one that will have to suffer for DECADES just because you did not think through the consequences of your actions

But yeah I like you as a poster too. This is not personal to anyone here. I just have nowhere else to vent my bitter rage

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## 25 going on 65

Ok. After rereading my posts, I will admit they might be a little too extreme because I am depressed/bitter
Will have to contemplate it some more I guess

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## DepressedByHairLoss

I can see your point, 25 going on 65.  I am not sure that I would outright say that people who suffer from hair loss should not have kids, but I will say that before a couple decides to have children, they should put serious thought into what kinds of genetic defects they could be passing on to their children and how these defects will manifest themselves in their children's lives.  I doubt that I will ever have children (mainly due to other factors besides hair loss), but if I ever do, I will damn sure put in the aforementioned "serious thought" that I described.

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## Dan26

woah thats trippy you quoted somthing i didn't say lol

but ya i wont disagree with you man...maximizing your looks is CRUCIAL...its not just about baldness it is about aesthetics period. But do realize when you get a bit older into your late 30's 40's etc, some of the other things apart from hair give you MORE of an advantage ie being in shape. Getting fit after goign bald when your younger isn;t a huge boost cause theres plenty guys that age who are fit and also have hair...whereas if you ran into some 40yr old bald guy who was maybe average or below average, if he was jacked it would give him a signifigant boost.

also dont forget as men we have a very large window as far as families, marriage etc....

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## PaddyBateman

> This subject has come up before on BTT. My position at one time was "a kid born today will never have to go bald, so it does not matter if you pass your crap hair genes on"
> In light of the depressingly slow progress of new treatments, & realizing more and more how many sufferers can not actually stop androgenic alopecia w/ current meds....I am going to have to say it is wrong to have children if you have this gene
> 
> Things to consider:
> 
> -If your son gets on fin or dut at 18, he still could go bald or significantly balding
> -Even in your kid's lifetime the advances in treatment might not be enough to ensure a fully dense NW1-2
> -Your kid may be unlucky & not respond to new treatments just like some do not respond to fin/dut/minox
> -Your kid may not even be a good transplant candidate if he is a diffuser
> ...


 I thought this was a wind-up, but the poster has > 1,000 posts, so he must be a serious poster, and hence it was a serious comment.

The only thing to conclude from this is that if you sincerely believe a life isn't worth living, if you have hair loss, then you indeed should not have kids. Fortunately, most hair loss sufferers do not condemn themselves in such a way.

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## redy

> I do not see "plenty" of bald guys with hot women. Yes it does happen, for the same reason any unattractive guy can date out of his league....by being a good/stable provider to one woman who will constantly be looking at other (better looking) guys and possibly sleeping with them at some point. 
> Anyway appearances are about more than getting an attractive partner. I have already posted about how much better they can make your life in multiple ways, I won't repeat it here


 I mean, not to be a complete dick here - but would you consider yourself unattractive? Like, regardless of hair..?
Because you sound extremely bitter and jaded, and I'm trying to figure out if you thought with hair you were some sort of demi-god looking dude and now you think you look like a circus freak? 
I mean I think I'm a decent looking guy, and if my hair disappears completely I think I'll still be able to do well for myself, *I'll just have to work a lot harder.* Regardless of what anyone else thinks, I've decided that for myself. I don't mean I'm going to get a 10/10 model chick or something, maybe I will? Who knows, all I know is I'm deciding my own value.

If you feel like a 0/10, who the hell wants to put any value in your stock anyway? How can you expect someone to treat you any better than you see yourself? By what you're saying, it doesn't seem like you give anyone a chance outside their appearance though..

*Try to learn to love yourself, man, I'd say I do about 50&#37; of the time, up from 25% when I first noticed my hair going.*

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## Notcoolanymore

> If you feel like a 0/10, who the hell wants to put any value in your stock anyway? How can you expect someone to treat you any better than you see yourself? By what you're saying, it doesn't seem like you give anyone a chance outside their appearance though..


 It is weird how our perception of ourselves can becomes reality.  I have seen plenty of dudes, over weight with at best an average face, and they think they are the shit.  They hit on nothing but the hottest girls and although they do not get them all, they do get some.  Self confidence will not win every time, but it can go a long way.

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## redy

> It is weird how our perception of ourselves can becomes reality.  I have seen plenty of dudes, over weight with at best an average face, and they think they are the shit.  They hit on nothing but the hottest girls and although they do not get them all, they do get some.  Self confidence will not win every time, but it can go a long way.


 It's even easier to be above average looking and have low confidence and get zero women.

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## BigThinker

> Very very happy to hear the good news brother! It gets pretty rough when your sheddding like a MOFO, losing ground, and it seems like its only gonna get worse. That's basically whats happening to me now. I've been on kirkland minox since august and fin since august too. But i was only taking 0.25mg and it did nothing to my DHT so had to up it to 1mg beginning of October. To think a year ago considering fin was a huge deal for me and I was very against it, and now I am getting impatient and wanting to pop some muhf*ckin dut for Christs sake lol.
> 
> Ah well, our fate is in the hands of the MPB Gods now.
> 
> I, like you, would be pretty pleased just maintaining a nw2.5-2.8. Im tellin ya man worse part about MPB is the constant progression and fear of knowing what is in store if you don't stop it. Id take a nw2.5 with loss completely halted over a nw1 that is slowly slowly heading down hill any day.


 Yeah, I'm confident you'll be in my position soon - done shedding.  Then we're onto worrying about the next thing, regrowth and maintenance.  

I did the premature dut thing already.  Took it like twice and decided I was being impatient so discontinued.  It's not worth it.

Here's to keeping out NW2.5's.

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## redy

> Yeah, I'm confident you'll be in my position soon - done shedding.  Then we're onto worrying about the next thing, regrowth and maintenance.  
> 
> I did the premature dut thing already.  Took it like twice and decided I was being impatient so discontinued.  It's not worth it.
> 
> Here's to keeping out NW2.5's.


 Do you pull up thin hairs when you use minox?

I'm definitely not shedding any more on a consistent basis (3.5 months in) but when I rub the minox into my hairline, I pull up some thin hairs every time, and I can see about 5 or so in my white sink. Granted, they are all thin as hell.

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## Dan26

> Yeah, I'm confident you'll be in my position soon - done shedding.  Then we're onto worrying about the next thing, regrowth and maintenance.  
> 
> I did the premature dut thing already.  Took it like twice and decided I was being impatient so discontinued.  It's not worth it.
> 
> Here's to keeping out NW2.5's.


 Yup the coming months should be interesting man. It is actually very common for fin results to peak at 18 months - 2 years. Statistics are on our side, but ya never know. I do think it is important to get DHT tested to make sure it has been cut by atleast 50%, or else low dose of dut is a wise idea for those who fin doesn't cut it for.

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## 25 going on 65

> I can see your point, 25 going on 65.  I am not sure that I would outright say that people who suffer from hair loss should not have kids, but I will say that before a couple decides to have children, they should put serious thought into what kinds of genetic defects they could be passing on to their children and how these defects will manifest themselves in their children's lives.  I doubt that I will ever have children (mainly due to other factors besides hair loss), but if I ever do, I will damn sure put in the aforementioned "serious thought" that I described.


 This. The genes you give your kids affect their lives as much or more than how you raise them




> woah thats trippy you quoted somthing i didn't say lol


 I was trying to quote baldozer but I messed up the code




> I thought this was a wind-up, but the poster has > 1,000 posts, so he must be a serious poster, and hence it was a serious comment.
> 
> The only thing to conclude from this is that if you sincerely believe a life isn't worth living, if you have hair loss, then you indeed should not have kids. Fortunately, most hair loss sufferers do not condemn themselves in such a way.


 I was & am serious. When you have a child suffering from andro alopecia, YOU are the one who did that to them. W/ modern knowledge it makes no sense to blame luck or the environment. You directly inflicted a disfiguring dermatological problem on another human being who had no say in the matter
Can you not see how that is immoral?




> I mean, not to be a complete dick here - but would you consider yourself unattractive? Like, regardless of hair..?
> Because you sound extremely bitter and jaded, and I'm trying to figure out if you thought with hair you were some sort of demi-god looking dude and now you think you look like a circus freak?
> I mean I think I'm a decent looking guy, and if my hair disappears completely I think I'll still be able to do well for myself, I'll just have to work a lot harder. Regardless of what anyone else thinks, I've decided that for myself. I don't mean I'm going to get a 10/10 model chick or something, maybe I will? Who knows, all I know is I'm deciding my own value.
> 
> If you feel like a 0/10, who the hell wants to put any value in your stock anyway? How can you expect someone to treat you any better than you see yourself? By what you're saying, it doesn't seem like you give anyone a chance outside their appearance though..
> 
> Try to learn to love yourself, man, I'd say I do about 50% of the time, up from 25% when I first noticed my hair going.


 Thankyou. Unfortunately appearance has been central to my ID for too long now to go back
To answer your question. I would never call myself a "demi god" as I have BDD. I get obsessed about any flaw I think I have. However if I try to be objective or go by what other people say, then yes I was srsly goodlooking w/ a full head of hair

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## BigThinker

> Do you pull up thin hairs when you use minox?
> 
> I'm definitely not shedding any more on a consistent basis (3.5 months in) but when I rub the minox into my hairline, I pull up some thin hairs every time, and I can see about 5 or so in my white sink. Granted, they are all thin as hell.


 Honestly, I have zero shedding - haven't for a month or so.  The only thin hairs being pulled are the small blonde hairs poking themselves outta my scalp likely due to minox.  When I was shedding, I was shedding miniaturized hairs almost exclusively.  On the rare occasion I lose a hair these days, they're miniaturized too.  I just combed my hair like 25 times and 1 hair came off - miniaturized as hell.




> Yup the coming months should be interesting man. It is actually very common for fin results to peak at 18 months - 2 years. Statistics are on our side, but ya never know. I do think it is important to get DHT tested to make sure it has been cut by atleast 50&#37;, or else low dose of dut is a wise idea for those who fin doesn't cut it for.


 I probably should get my blood tested, but I'm too lazy.  I'll just monitor my hair with photos and go see a doc when I get worried again.  I'm actually pretty comfortable with my hair now.  Just got a fresh hair cut and it looks great.

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## bighair

both jack nicholson and sean connery would never have been born if people listened to the original poster.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## 4x4

25/65,

The problem with implementing any kind of eugenics in this matter is that all evidence points to AGA being a polygenic trait.  Furthermore the gene set involved is still unknown.  There is therefore no one "bald gene" to pass down to offspring.  Recombinant factors are at play which makes familial history at best a random guess.

Consider my own situation:  My father is 73, and is barely at NW2, and doesn't even have any gray.  My uncles are in their 60's and are the same way.  My mother's side didn't have it either.  Yet here I am creeping into NW4 territory.  My point is you couldn't make a "safe" determination to have children simply by the absence of the condition.  AGA's properties are ubiquitous enough to manifest under even the most unlikely of ancestors.

<<The biggest parenting mistake most people make is reproducing when their genes are not good enough. Do not be selfish>>

And herein lies our dilemma:  Under most scenarios, we don't KNOW what that is.  Some of the brightest people on the planet come from average parents.  The most attractive people typically come from "ho-hum" lookers.  Beauty does not always beget beauty.  Ugly does not always beget ugly.

Look, I know you're venting, but stop trying to pretend you're going to do mankind a favor by withholding your crap genetics.  Because the truth of the matter is you're not smart enough to make a judgement of what is crap and what isn't.  None of us are.

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## Notcoolanymore

As I was leaving costco today I saw a nw6 holding a new born baby.  If I knew for a fact that the baby was a boy, I would have confronted the guy.

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## 25 going on 65

> As I was leaving costco today I saw a nw6 holding a new born baby.  If I knew for a fact that the baby was a boy, I would have confronted the guy.


 If this forum had signatures, this post would be mine

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## PaddyBateman

> As I was leaving costco today I saw a nw6 holding a new born baby.  If I knew for a fact that the baby was a boy, I would have confronted the guy.


 Unsure if this is a serious comment or not.

Assuming it is - why didn't you just ask him if its a boy or a girl? If you were prepared to "confront" this stranger if you knew it was a boy anyway, then it's nothing to just ask him what sex his baby is, right?

In fact, you must see NW6/7's all the time, with children. What do you plan to say exactly when you confront them?

What about short men..will you confront them for having children?

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## DepressedByHairLoss

The problem is that baldness screws up a person's attractiveness (and well-being) much more than such things as having a big nose or being short.  Having a big nose or a weird skull shape is soooo minimal when compared with baldness.  These giddy parents who are just itching at the bit to have a cute little baby should really think things through first and think about what garbage genetics they are passing on to their children.

----------


## BigThinker

> As I was leaving costco today I saw a nw6 holding a new born baby.  If I knew for a fact that the baby was a boy, I would have confronted the guy.


 If you're serious, you have a million of men to confront then -- including your dad.

What if you were leaving costco and saw an nw6 holding a hot babes hand?

----------


## BigThinker

> The problem is that baldness screws up a person's attractiveness (and well-being) much more than such things as having a big nose or being short.  Having a big nose or a weird skull shape is soooo minimal when compared with baldness.  These giddy parents who are just itching at the bit to have a cute little baby should really think things through first and think about what garbage genetics they are passing on to their children.


 LOL.  Yeah, because people with other undesirable physical traits don't let it affect their attractiveness and well-being??? 

God, this thread makes me want to leave this place.

----------


## DepressedByHairLoss

> LOL.  Yeah, because people with other undesirable physical traits don't let it affect their attractiveness and well-being??? 
> 
> God, this thread makes me want to leave this place.


 All I'm saying is that hair loss is so much more detrimental to a person's good looks than a big nose or the shape of a person's skull.  I've always had a big nose and I couldn't care less about that.  Yet hair loss has hit me like a ton of bricks.  I see your hair loss is barely noticeable man, and you're really lucky for that.  I really wonder if you'd feel differently if you were an NW6.

----------


## Notcoolanymore

> Unsure if this is a serious comment or not.
> 
> Assuming it is - why didn't you just ask him if its a boy or a girl? If you were prepared to "confront" this stranger if you knew it was a boy anyway, then it's nothing to just ask him what sex his baby is, right?
> 
> In fact, you must see NW6/7's all the time, with children. What do you plan to say exactly when you confront them?
> 
> What about short men..will you confront them for having children?


 Not being serious.  Just trying to lighten it up around here.  That's what I do.  If we prevented people from having kids based on potential for defects the human race would go extinct.

----------


## Notcoolanymore

> If you're serious, you have a million of men to confront then -- including your dad.
> 
> *What if you were leaving costco and saw an nw6 holding a hot babes hand?*


 I would tip my cap to the guy.  I hate my hair just as much as the next guy here, but I have learned to deal with it.  I don't walk around like its the end of the world.  Losing my hair since my early twenties, I get the mentality of most of the guys around here, but we need to put things into perspective.  Hair loss sucks, but things can get a lot worse.

----------


## Notcoolanymore

BTW, I thought my comment about "confronting the guy" was amusing.  Silly, but amusing.  Confronting random guys on the street can be pretty dangerous.

----------


## PaddyBateman

> Not being serious.  Just trying to lighten it up around here.  That's what I do.  If we prevented people from having kids based on potential for defects the human race would go extinct.


 Normally I'd assume that such a comment was a joke.

But the original poster of this thread was serious (or claims to be), so couldn't rule it out...

----------


## PaddyBateman

> The problem is that baldness screws up a person's attractiveness (and well-being) much more than such things as having a big nose or being short.  Having a big nose or a weird skull shape is soooo minimal when compared with baldness.  These giddy parents who are just itching at the bit to have a cute little baby should really think things through first and think about what garbage genetics they are passing on to their children.


 You're effectively suggesting that your parents shouldn't have had you, and you are calling for yourself not to have been born. Hey, I get the pain of hair loss. It's devastating. But thoughts like this are not in line.

I will make the assumption that you live in a wealthy western free democratic nation, have never starved a day in your life , and always have had a roof over your head. Congrats, you are already doing better than half of humanity.

Also, to take your thoughts literally...a baby born now, will be say 25 in the year 2038. Do you not think there'll be some seriously better treatments for their potential hairloss by then?

----------


## BigThinker

> All I'm saying is that hair loss is so much more detrimental to a person's good looks than a big nose or the shape of a person's skull.  I've always had a big nose and I couldn't care less about that.  Yet hair loss has hit me like a ton of bricks.  I see your hair loss is barely noticeable man, and you're really lucky for that.  I really wonder if you'd feel differently if you were an NW6.


 It's definitely noticeable.  I've got a handful of comments .  It's just early enough that it frames my face and when I have a beard it's detracted.  Hell, the girl I'm currently seeing on and off likes my mature look and I'm _25_.

Trust me, I know I've got it good relative to some.  But, even on treatment, my hair is below baseline.  The uncertainly is just as troubling.  I'm still gonna get married and pump mini-mes.  I've spent a lot of time stressing hair loss, but it just ain't worth it anymore.  Honestly, reading this thread has made me feel relatively good about my mental state regardless hair loss.

----------


## PaddyBateman

> It's definitely noticeable.  I've got a handful of comments .  It's just early enough that it frames my face and when I have a beard it's detracted.  Hell, the girl I'm currently seeing on and off likes my mature look and I'm _25_.
> 
> Trust me, I know I've got it good relative to some.  But, even on treatment, my hair is below baseline.  The uncertainly is just as troubling.  I'm still gonna get married and pump mini-mes.  I've spent a lot of time stressing hair loss, but it just ain't worth it anymore.  Honestly, reading this thread has made me feel relatively good about my mental state regardless hair loss.


 Re: your last line.

That's how I feel. Before reading this forum, I used to think I was being particularly vain, being so bothered by my hair. I thought it was just me.

Now I realise, how upbeat I actually have been.

----------


## 25 going on 65

> 25/65,
> 
> The problem with implementing any kind of eugenics in this matter is that all evidence points to AGA being a polygenic trait.  Furthermore the gene set involved is still unknown.  There is therefore no one "bald gene" to pass down to offspring.  Recombinant factors are at play which makes familial history at best a random guess.
> 
> Consider my own situation:  My father is 73, and is barely at NW2, and doesn't even have any gray.  My uncles are in their 60's and are the same way.  My mother's side didn't have it either.  Yet here I am creeping into NW4 territory.  My point is you couldn't make a "safe" determination to have children simply by the absence of the condition.  AGA's properties are ubiquitous enough to manifest under even the most unlikely of ancestors.
> 
> <<The biggest parenting mistake most people make is reproducing when their genes are not good enough. Do not be selfish>>
> 
> And herein lies our dilemma:  Under most scenarios, we don't KNOW what that is.  Some of the brightest people on the planet come from average parents.  The most attractive people typically come from "ho-hum" lookers.  Beauty does not always beget beauty.  Ugly does not always beget ugly.
> ...


 Gave this some thought. It probably is the best argument anyone can make against my OP
However the evidence is still right in front of my face....couples w/ little to no premature balding in their families seem much less likely to have kids w/ premature balding. Whereas when even 1 parent has 1 parent (ie the child has 1 grandparent) w/ premature balding, the chances of the kid balding before 30 are HUGE

Balding is aesthetic death for almost everyone. I can not see how it is moral to have children, if you have a genetic makeup that almost guarantees disfigurement DURING young adulthood
And yes it is disfiguring

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> Gave this some thought. It probably is the best argument anyone can make against my OP
> However the evidence is still right in front of my face....couples w/ little to no premature balding in their families seem much less likely to have kids w/ premature balding. Whereas when even 1 parent has 1 parent (ie the child has 1 grandparent) w/ premature balding, the chances of the kid balding before 30 are HUGE
> 
> Balding is aesthetic death for almost everyone. I can not see how it is moral to have children, if you have a genetic makeup that almost guarantees disfigurement DURING young adulthood
> And yes it is disfiguring


 Balding doesn't bother every man, but if it does, there are far more options available today than there were when I was young.  I remember when I was 17, my friend had a neighbor in his late twenties who was noticeably thinning.  There was nothing available at that time but snake oil.  I still remember my friend telling me his neighbor used a product available at that time called "Iodets".  The name implies the user wasn't nice enough to their hair when they were younger, so the product is one that pays your scalp back with some kind of kindness, or something.   :Smile:   Hair gimmicks go back many years.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## Keeno

This will be a quite different slant from the rest of the thread but I have reconsidered my position on reproducing with the balding gene too.  

My reasons for NOT reproducing with the balding gene (or whatever gene) were very deep, I have to say.  Through my young adulthood, coincidentially when I was going about with an NW7 horseshoe all throughout that period in my life, I was getting accused of being a paedophile.  Indeed, that was always accompanied with threats or attempts of violence.... therefore I was ending up traumatised again and again and again.

I don't know for sure that this stuff happened because I had a horseshoe, and glasses.  There are stereotypes around what combination of traits makes a "paedophile", and things like balding and glasses always seem high on the list.  I have Asperger's too and struggled for a long time against coming across as odd, or socially awkward, and would think it's more relevant that I was an introvert on the autistic spectrum so seemed "different".

Not surprisingly I avoided children altogether, and certainly didn't ever want to have any of my own, because of what I went through.

I know that besides inevitable personality stereotypes, balding is a thing that still contributes to the paedo stereotype, given my experiences before and after shaving the horseshoe off.  A couple of examples are as follows: 

I go to a local Starbucks every week, where there are many parents with kids, and they often come and sit at my table and leave the kids alone with me while they order.  

I was on the bus to work on Monday and a mother and daughter sat with me (indeed it's always young attractive women who sit beside me on buses, which they never did before).  The girl in her buggy was put straight in front of me, was initiating (and allowed to continue) interaction with me, and took to me so much that she expressed wishes that I was her father, with no dissent or revocation from her mother for saying this.

There are many other such cases, but I still don't seek to be near kids, yet they are always being brought near me and to me.  When they are, I notice people looking upon this, not to give me dirty looks as if I'm a paedo, but smiling because they think it's a cute and pleasant scene.  

This stuff doesn't suggest I come across as a paedo any more, indeed perhaps someone who looks suitable to be near kids and have kids, and only happened since I shaved off what had been a grown horseshoe.  It has made me reconsider whether I want to reproduce or not as there are loud and clear signals society is not revoking me if kids are near me.

I just find it highly encouraging and never had thought things like just shacing your head would be THAT transformative.

----------


## baldozer

> Gave this some thought. It probably is the best argument anyone can make against my OP
> However the evidence is still right in front of my face....couples w/ little to no premature balding in their families seem much less likely to have kids w/ premature balding. Whereas when even 1 parent has 1 parent (ie the child has 1 grandparent) w/ premature balding, the chances of the kid balding before 30 are HUGE
> 
> Balding is aesthetic death for almost everyone. I can not see how it is moral to have children, if you have a genetic makeup that almost guarantees disfigurement DURING young adulthood
> And yes it is disfiguring


 Its not necessarily disfiguring. For example Zidane looks great bald.

----------


## Notcoolanymore

Keeno,

Sorry if your post went over my head, but if I understand you correctly you are saying that since shaving your head, people have changed the way they treated you.  The horseshoe look is pretty bad, especially if you let the sides grow out, but I never really made the connection with NW6/NW7 and pedophilia.  Personally I have no doubt that you look much better shaving/close buzzing your head.

----------


## Keeno

> Keeno,
> 
> Sorry if your post went over my head, but if I understand you correctly you are saying that since shaving your head, people have changed the way they treated you.


 Yes, without a doubt.  I never seriously thought there would be such a change, but I did see immediate results.  Being out in public was different immediately and continued to be.  The same is true for people I personally knew who had virtually shunned me before, such as one or two people at work, I can say that they changed. 




> The horseshoe look is pretty bad, especially if you let the sides grow out, but I never really made the connection with NW6/NW7 and pedophilia.


 I never in my right mind made this connection either.  But there are a lot of stupid arseholes out there and only people who aren't in their right mind make this connection.  People will likely say you should just ignore such people, but if you're getting accused of being a paedophile, then Houston you have a problem.  Dealing with the horseshoe is one of the things I did to try to address that problem.  Just Google for what people say the paedophile stereotypes are and "bald" or "balding" comes up frequently.

I had to figure out all for myself, what to do about my hair, as people don't tend to tell you exactly how bad the horseshoe look is.

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## Notcoolanymore

Well I'm glad you decided to shave your head, since it appears to have changed your life.  The shit that you had to go through is just plain effed up.  It's good you didn't let it defeat you.

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## DannyBoyy7

I wouldnt listen to them Keeno...you get tossers out there you said people put their kids next to you so not EVERYONE thinks this...shit happens im afraid...i got hate when i had hair with no sign of hairloss so it dont matter to me regardless.

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## Shelley79328

Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water!!!  You can't be serious??  If one did not reproduce because they have a different gene expression than the majority (balding or low IQ or heart defect for example) no one, I mean no one would ever reproduce!!

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## Mike K

Ya know, I have had this same thought about maybe I should just never have kids. I mean the world is overpopulated as it is and there are plenty of other dudes with way better hair genetics out there than me. That being said, I'm glad I was born and other than my hair I consider myself to be a pretty good looking guy. It could be argued that the reason we are on this earth is to reproduce and to not do so is selfish even if you do think you have bad genetics. You could have a son who is shorter, fatter, uglier than you and start balding before you did, but he might be happy as hell just to be alive. Who are you to deny him that? Just a thought.

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## 25 going on 65

> Ya know, I have had this same thought about maybe I should just never have kids. I mean the world is overpopulated as it is and there are plenty of other dudes with way better hair genetics out there than me. That being said, I'm glad I was born and other than my hair I consider myself to be a pretty good looking guy. It could be argued that the reason we are on this earth is to reproduce and to not do so is selfish even if you do think you have bad genetics. You could have a son who is shorter, fatter, uglier than you and start balding before you did, but he might be happy as hell just to be alive. Who are you to deny him that? Just a thought.


 I can not deny someone who does not exist. & I can not see how reproducing w/ a genetic trait as bad as andro alopecia is less selfish than sparing the next generation from yet another set of MPB genes.

Also there are not short fat ugly people who are happy as hell to be alive. At best they can distract themselves from their own situation w/ drugs, TV etc

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> I can not deny someone who does not exist. & I can not see how reproducing w/ a genetic trait as bad as andro alopecia is less selfish than sparing the next generation from yet another set of MPB genes.
> 
> Also there are not short fat ugly people who are happy as hell to be alive. At best they can distract themselves from their own situation w/ drugs, TV etc


 Not being happy with the way we look can of course be a real downer.  My wife and I watched an episode of the TV series "White Collar" last night.  In one scene Mat Bomer, Tim Dekay and Willie Garson were sitting in a car waiting for a computer hacker contact to phone them.  The computer hacker was played by Lena Headey (Sarah Conner from the Sarah Conner Chronicles).  From across the street, looking in the car she requested the handsome guy.  Both Mat Bomer and Tim DeKay started to get out of the car.  Lena Head said no, the handsome guy in the back, who was Willie Garson pictured below (third from the left).  Willie got the girl later in the show.

In real life Willie's look is popular with some women.  As women get older they often realize the importance/superiority of inner qualities in men

Willie Garson Interview

----------


## Mike K

> I can not deny someone who does not exist. & I can not see how reproducing w/ a genetic trait as bad as andro alopecia is less selfish than sparing the next generation from yet another set of MPB genes.
> 
> Also there are not short fat ugly people who are happy as hell to be alive. At best they can distract themselves from their own situation w/ drugs, TV etc


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Klebba_%26_Eaton.JPG

Check out this guy. 4'1" and could not possibly be more bald. He's an actor and stunt performer. His wife is pretty hot for a little person, and he has a son who is over a foot taller than him. I bet you he's happy to be alive. Everybody's always saying, "famous people don't count they weren't bald when they got famous." This dude was never taller than 4'1".

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## Notcoolanymore

His wife is the hottest looking little person I have ever seen.

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## 25 going on 65

> In real life Willie's look is popular with some women.  As women get older they often realize the importance/superiority of inner qualities in men


 Well yes. When aging forces you off the market it makes sense to settle down w/ a stable guy who can provide so you can finish your life in some comfort




> Check out this guy. 4'1" and could not possibly be more bald. He's an actor and stunt performer. His wife is pretty hot for a little person, and he has a son who is over a foot taller than him. I bet you he's happy to be alive. Everybody's always saying, "famous people don't count they weren't bald when they got famous." This dude was never taller than 4'1".


 Yet who here (forum dedicated to a depressing problem) would trade places with him? Nobody

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## baldozer

> In real life Willie's look is popular with some women.  *As women get older they often realize the importance/superiority of inner qualities in men*


 Who cares about used up older women? They have had their fun with guys they thought were hot and now want to settle down with a beta loser. They don't care about looks at that point of course, but it is due to their desire to leech off from a rich man, and not because they are attracted to such a man.

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## Notcoolanymore

> Yet who here (forum dedicated to a depressing problem) would trade places with him? Nobody


 Check and Mate.

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## Mike K

I wouldn't trade places with him and I know none of us would either I'm just trying to say that his family reproduced with the baldness gene, and he reproduced despite not having excellent genetics and it all turned out ok. If you're bald, and you find a woman you like, and she wants to have kids with you, then you must have turned out ok and your kid will be alright too. I know this is a devastating, unfair part of life, but I don't think it is immoral to reproduce with it.

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## 35YrsAfter

> I wouldn't trade places with him and I know none of us would either I'm just trying to say that his family reproduced with the baldness gene, and he reproduced despite not having excellent genetics and it all turned out ok. If you're bald, and you find a woman you like, and she wants to have kids with you, then you must have turned out ok and your kid will be alright too. I know this is a devastating, unfair part of life, but I don't think it is immoral to reproduce with it.


 The majority of men don't want to lose hair, but hair loss doesn't bother all men or women.  For example, we had a man in for scar repair resulting from mohs skin cancer surgery.  The long scar affected his temple point and beard area.  He just wanted to have the beard and temple areas filled in.  He is a wealthy happily married Norwood 6.  He expressed no desire whatsoever to address his MPB.

Some women prefer bald men because they find them more masculine.

I remember working with brothers only a few years apart in age.  Both were Norwood sevens by their early thirties.  One was a recluse with no girlfriends and wore a decent looking hairpiece.  The other cut his hair short, didn't seem to care about his hair loss, and he always had women.  He was short and overweight.  Women generally speaking, prefer good character, an upbeat personality and self confidence.  

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
Cole Hair Transplant
Phone 678-566-1011
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice

----------


## 25 going on 65

> I wouldn't trade places with him and I know none of us would either I'm just trying to say that his family reproduced with the baldness gene, and he reproduced despite not having excellent genetics and it all turned out ok. If you're bald, and you find a woman you like, and she wants to have kids with you, then you must have turned out ok and your kid will be alright too.


 His son is a kid, we will not know if he is ok for years. Most likely he will start balding when he is young but will not have his father's money to make up for it. Unless his dad gives it to him....which he should since his son will probably need it for a lifetime of meds + surgeries




> If you're bald, and you find *a woman* you like, and she wants to have kids with you, then you must have turned out ok and your kid will be alright too.


 Isnt this a very low standard for "ok"?

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## J_B_Davis

> Isnt this a very low standard for "ok"?


 These are the cards weve been dealt and there are far worse hands to be stuck playing in this world. There is no such thing as a low standard of ok, OK is OK! All that matters is if we are ok with ourselves and the people who we are fortunate to share out lives with.

Most people in this world probably possess what you would consider to be bad genetics, yet these people find happiness and success in life. They get married and start families and accomplish great things. There will always be the sad sacks who blame the world or their  bad" genetics or their parents or whatever for the failures in life. They will spend all of their time feeling sorry for themselves and in the end grow old accomplishing nothing. It's a sad way to live.

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## 35YrsAfter

> There will always be the sad sacks who blame the world or their  bad" genetics or their parents or whatever for the failures in life. They will spend all of their time feeling sorry for themselves and in the end grow old accomplishing nothing. It's a sad way to live.


 I know someone exactly like that.  He has a full head of hair and a negative attitude that has poisoned his life and the lives of people around him.  When we really think about it, most everyone has a lot to be thankful for.  I attended a wedding last Saturday where all types of people attended.  The groom appeared to have a full head of hair with a low hairline and all, but he had significant hair loss in the back.  Most men past 40 have some hair loss.  Women have come to accept that for the most part.  About 60% of the men attending the wedding had hair loss to some degree.  I mentioned before, that all the men who work for Dr. Cole have hair loss.  Dr. Cole never had any hair loss.



35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## hellouser

> I know someone exactly like that.  He has a full head of hair and a negative attitude that has poisoned his life and the lives of people around him.  When we really think about it, most everyone has a lot to be thankful for.  I attended a wedding last Saturday where all types of people attended.  The groom appeared to have a full head of hair with a low hairline and all, but he had significant hair loss in the back.  Most men past 40 have some hair loss.  Women have come to accept that for the most part.  About 60% of the men attending the wedding had hair loss to some degree.  I mentioned before, that all the men who work for Dr. Cole have hair loss.  Dr. Cole never had any hair loss.


 Try being in your twenties and the only balding guy in your social group... then we'll see how accepting people around you are of your baldness.

----------


## Joan

I agree with Hellouser.  I'm a woman losing my hair (seeing a therapist due to the depression it's causing me), but watching my 18-year-old son lose his is a million times worse than what I'm going through.  I'd sacrifice every hair on my head if I could stave off his hair loss at least another 20 years.  I feel so guilty for passing this gene on to him--what was I thinking?  I truly feel for all of you and share the same negative thoughts that many express here (actually my feelings may even be worse).

----------


## fred970

Thank you Joan. Unfortunately, women our age will never understand our plague unless they go through it themselves like you did, which is unlikely to happen for most of them.

Until then, they will continue to tell us to man up and that it is just hair. And if we try to do something about it (medication, hair transplant, etc.), we're even more pathetic to them and society in general.

I'm not talking about all women of course, but I'm talking about the random woman, the one you take randomly in the crowd will be more likely to behave like that than to be compassionate and understanding, especially in the US apparently, but they're getting there here in Europe too.

----------


## Joan

So true, Fred.  Not one of you here is pathetic.  I know I'm much older than you guys (51), but seriously, I do not feel or look (at least that's what everyone tells me--I even got carded in the package store the other day!) my age.  My mindset is so much younger.  But I will say in all honesty that if I weren't married, I wouldn't care less whether or not a guy had hair.  That wouldn't even enter into the picture as far as my attraction to him.  Unfortunately, probably many younger women (myself included 30 years ago) feel differently.  I was married previously and got divorced when I was 28.  I took it very badly and spent two lonely years with no social life.  That changed me drastically, making me much less focused on appearances and more focused on things that should have been important to me all along.  Baldness would have meant nothing to me the second time around, and I'm sure there are young women who feel that way too.

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## fred970

At least you are honest, you just admitted you wouldn't have given a balding guy a second look when your were young. 

The thing is, none of us want to wait for those women to have an enlightenment like you had, I'm sure we'd all like women in their prime. You'll reckon that at 30, you were less likely to attract attractive men (that means with hair) like your could in your early 20's and that you may have lowered your standards, consciously or unconsciously.

That's the problem, we hear things like "don't worry, women won't care when they are older", how is that supposed to make us feel better? We hear "you know girls in their prime won't even give you a chance but when they will be old and used-up, they might consider you because their options have become limited!"

----------


## Joan

A couple of things.  First, I am still attracting, at 51, what I consider to be attractive men, for whatever reason.  At 30 I didn't feel as though I lowered my standards because of my age.  As I said, the emotional turmoil I had gone through made me focus on qualities of importance rather than the external. I was looking for, and found, a lifetime partner with whom I had much in common, among other things.  I think it's ignorant and rude of people to tell you not to worry; women won't care when they're older.  Of course you want--and should have--an attractive woman your age.  I'm just saying that there are women who have been hurt like I had been who would love a guy who respects and accepts her as she is--just my opinion.  I know they are probably far and few in between, but they do exist.  I know my son will have a hard time attracting women too, and it breaks my heart.

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## fred970

It's sad we have to wait that women have been emotionally deeply hurt and sometimes broken for them to realise that less attractive (balding) men may be a good option too. 

The worst is that those women will often still be in love with their emotionally (and physically) abusive boyfriend. 

I'm not talking about you, but I experienced that too many times. 

Why can't they get it right the first time and just date a bald guy? Answer: the media, what society tells them, what their female friends tell them, and the fact that women are easily influenced.

----------


## Joan

Fred, I am sorry that you experienced relationships that didn't work out with women on the rebound.  You are so, so right about society.  Women experience that pressure to look good too (perfect butt, boobs, skin, etc.)  And forget about middle-aged women.  Botox, facelifts, peels, butt lifts, etc. are what we're expected to have (my opinion).  I wish I could be happy in my own skin, like other women I know who are overweight, have spider veins, pouchy abs, etc. and plenty of money to have all the cosmetic surgery they want but don't.  I keep myself in excellent shape, but still this hair loss consumes my thoughts almost 24/7.  I just can't get past it, and I don't think it's any worse for me than it is for you guys who are young and down because of it.

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## 35YrsAfter

> Try being in your twenties and the only balding guy in your social group... then we'll see how accepting people around you are of your baldness.


 I started losing my hair when I was 16.  It wasn't until I was around 25 that it was noticeable.  I've lived through it, condescending remarks and all, at a time when shaved heads were considered odd and not socially acceptable.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

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## hdude46

I'm not sure why people bother responding to this guy anymore.  He's clearly a miserable person with mental health issues doing his best to make other people in this community feel bad about themselves too.

At the end of the day, arguing with a stranger over the internet is an exercise in futility.  The original poster isn't going to change anyone's opinion on anything no matter how hard he tries and I bet the same is true vice versa.

And really why should you?  Go out and be happy with YOUR life.  I never understood the people who spend countless hours on here bitching and bitching about their plight.  I guess it can be some sort of therapy but after a while move on and stop living on a freaking message board.

If hairloss bothers you then do something about it.  We have fin, dut, minox, laser therapy, hair transplants, concealers, prp, etc  See what works and what doesn't and stick with it.  Constantly complaining to internet strangers isn't going to change anything except make the people like me who come here for information annoyed.

Good grief.

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