# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  OC and setipip news

## sdsurfin

So I contacted another company, and i think we can get OC or setipip from them at a better price than kane. the guy was really helpful. 
Please everyone who is interested in a safe hair maintenance drug, email them at this website         http://teamtlr.com   and let them know of your interest. you don't have to say much, just that you want OC and setipip. the important thing is to make them realize the possible demand.  Even if you are skeptical, help us to get this out there for some people to test and report back with.  This was the reply they sent me:

"We can look into this.  Need to know:

What is the current format (total amount OC and concentration/solvent) and pricing as being sold?  remitted in full detail or link/et al. likely best.
What number of researcher and what estimated average monthly allocation would most make in general for this?
What would be the equivalent dose of setipiprant? 
Why can't these have better and simpler names? (that's a joke, lol)

From that we could assess.
These things take some time and effort, but we can potentially offer this at a superior basis within a strong demand in due time if all the information is provided and 'makes sense' for us to proceed.

Best!
TeamTLR"

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## sdsurfin

the dude at TLR is seeing if he can get a 3% solution at like 150 bucks per gram.  That means half of what kane charges.  The more people we can get to contact this guy at TLR the more he will be inspired to do this and if this works i think the price will drop just like it did with RU.

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## abrorcasanova

> the dude at TLR is seeing if he can get a 3% solution at like 150 bucks per gram.  That means half of what kane charges.  The more people we can get to contact this guy at TLR the more he will be inspired to do this and if this works i think the price will drop just like it did with RU.


 So should we just email them saying we are interested in OC and setipip?

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## Gerhard

Can you post the email, I'm having trouble with it when trying to hit the contact us button on the page. I'd be more than happy to share my interest to them.

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## Illusion

> the dude at TLR is seeing if he can get a 3% solution at like 150 bucks per gram.  That means half of what kane charges.  The more people we can get to contact this guy at TLR the more he will be inspired to do this and if this works i think the price will drop just like it did with RU.


 Good job SD. I contacted both Kane and TLR to show them my interest.

Regarding the 3% solution at ~$150/gram, this would only mast a month no? Still pretty expensive but yeah, it's a lot better than with Kane. How does he know what the right vehicle would be btw?

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## nave13579

If someone is up to it, they should make an info post that quickly goes over setipiprant (benefits, scientific backing, briefly how it works), as well as explain why it is now relevant (Kythera, Dr. Cots), and pitch it as a true (possibly better, definitely safer) alternative to fin.  Can then add how we can potentially get it now (sooner) if we get support and enough people to email kane/MTL.

This post can be posted on other forums, especially forums where new age technologies aren't discussed.  In mind, I had reddit (www.reddit.com/r/tressless) - it is a supportive community of about 3000 people who want to fix and prevent hairloss, however they're still stuck on the big 3 (minox, niz, fin) with no discussion of further treatments.  Countless people on this forum express fear with fin sides, and I think they would jump at the opportunity of something as safe and potentially promising as setipip as a way to maintain their hair - they just need someone to show them.  I guarantee we can get lots of people on this forum to email kane/MTL.

Thoughts?

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## yayay

Hello,

I've just email tlr to show my interest in oc | set and they asked me in return what would be a reasonable price for me ?

Actually I don't know what to answer now..

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## sdsurfin

> If someone is up to it, they should make an info post that quickly goes over setipiprant (benefits, scientific backing, briefly how it works), as well as explain why it is now relevant (Kythera, Dr. Cots), and pitch it as a true (possibly better, definitely safer) alternative to fin.  Can then add how we can potentially get it now (sooner) if we get support and enough people to email kane/MTL.
> 
> This post can be posted on other forums, especially forums where new age technologies aren't discussed.  In mind, I had reddit (www.reddit.com/r/tressless) - it is a supportive community of about 3000 people who want to fix and prevent hairloss, however they're still stuck on the big 3 (minox, niz, fin) with no discussion of further treatments.  Countless people on this forum express fear with fin sides, and I think they would jump at the opportunity of something as safe and potentially promising as setipip as a way to maintain their hair - they just need someone to show them.  I guarantee we can get lots of people on this forum to email kane/MTL.
> 
> Thoughts?


 
Do it.  I've posted tons of info about both drugs on here.  I think using setipiprant at the asthma dose is the best bet, especially after the reliability of the guy who was maintaining on OC was recently questioned.  We just have to show enough interest to get the right dose of setipip at the right price.

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## Gerhard

> Do it.  I've posted tons of info about both drugs on here.  I think using setipiprant at the asthma dose is the best bet, especially after the reliability of the guy who was maintaining on OC was recently questioned.  We just have to show enough interest to get the right dose of setipip at the right price.


 It's a solid idea.

I'd have to agree on that. Can you post the email for the tlr shop, my comp won't open the tab to contact them so I sort of need a direct email.

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## FearTheLoss

IMPORTANT. does anyone know this companies reputation? It is necessary we get this tested from a 3rd party for purity as well. Anyone want to do this? Or know where we could do this? We could all pitch in to pay for it

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## sdsurfin

> IMPORTANT. does anyone know this companies reputation? It is necessary we get this tested from a 3rd party for purity as well. Anyone want to do this? Or know where we could do this? We could all pitch in to pay for it


 
lets worry about that if/when we get a price.  someone else on here recommended this company, and i think they are very reputable.

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## FearTheLoss

I sent an email

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## heyhowareyou47

i sent an email too

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## 20legend

I just sent them an email too

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## abrorcasanova

So if we get a good price, how much approx would it cost us per month?

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## 20legend

TeamTLR just replied:

Make sure to register to be on the mailing list on the site for updates as we are working hard on it but it will take some time.

Hoping to relay some word or put the item up in 1-3 weeks, so look out on New Arrivals!

As well, though I know that is your research priority, we have many strong anti-aging agents that do have indication to act to preserve natural hair color, hair texture, hair growth/health, as well as of course overall health and longevity relating anti-aging.

If you wish to inform any community to take heed of such as well, it may be worthwhile to note.  Or to send word to someone with clout in such a community/forums.

Many thanks!

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## FearTheLoss

> TeamTLR just replied:
> 
> Make sure to register to be on the mailing list on the site for updates as we are working hard on it but it will take some time.
> 
> Hoping to relay some word or put the item up in 1-3 weeks, so look out on New Arrivals!
> 
> As well, though I know that is your research priority, we have many strong anti-aging agents that do have indication to act to preserve natural hair color, hair texture, hair growth/health, as well as of course overall health and longevity relating anti-aging.
> 
> If you wish to inform any community to take heed of such as well, it may be worthwhile to note.  Or to send word to someone with clout in such a community/forums.
> ...


 
I got the same exact reply. I hope they really do get it up in this time and this is something that comes to fruition.

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## heyhowareyou47

does anyone know a lab where we can get it tested to make sure it's legit?

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## robjacksen

Just emailed as well. I been a lurker for a couple years, finally decided to post. I saw something about OC helping reduce oil on the face, I get a little shinny here and there, so sounds like I might kill two birds with one stone?

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## sdsurfin

> does anyone know a lab where we can get it tested to make sure it's legit?


 This lab is legit.

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## dontwanttobald

Any update with how this is going?

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## liba

The website seems not working??

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## dontwanttobald

no it doesn't but I assume people emailed while it was still up? did anyone get a reply? I'm really pushing towards getting on seti/OC cos I really want to maintain what I have without using an AA

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## Follisket

Ok guys, but am I the only one who has no idea how to even use (mix/dose) OC or seti? I mean, it's just sorta hard to get the ball rolling and try to drive the price down when you have no idea what you're aiming for. I for one don't even know how much I would need per day/month for maintenance, much less what that would amount to cost-wise - and I might not be the only one. 
Maybe it would be a good idea to eventually start a thread on OC/seti use and mixing similar to hellouser's Complete RU58841 Usage Guide(?)
And thanks to everyone for putting so much effort into this.

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## Keki

we don't even know what dose have a statistical value, we cannot order thousands of dollar of product if we don't know if the keithera seti have a specific ingredient which target the right pathway while the normal oc/seti can work just for ashma... we need more info somehow

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## RockyMtn

> Ok guys, but am I the only one who has no idea how to even use (mix/dose) OC or seti? I mean, it's just sorta hard to get the ball rolling and try to drive the price down when you have no idea what you're aiming for. I for one don't even know how much I would need per day/month for maintenance, much less what that would amount to cost-wise - and I might not be the only one. 
> Maybe it would be a good idea to eventually start a thread on OC/seti use and mixing similar to hellouser's Complete RU58841 Usage Guide(?)
> And thanks to everyone for putting so much effort into this.


 I'm in the same boat here - I'm ready to give an OC mixture a try, but I can't find any consensus on best vehicle, strength, etc.  I agree, if someone who has done this could put a basic guide together, that would be awesome.  In the meantime, I've been reading through this thread and taking notes (hope it's OK to link to another board) : http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...hreadid=110590

Still would love to hear from someone here who has had success with OC and how they made their batch.

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## KO1

> we don't even know what dose have a statistical value, we cannot order thousands of dollar of product if we don't know if the keithera seti have a specific ingredient which target the right pathway while the normal oc/seti can work just for ashma... we need more info somehow


 We can use the asthma trial amount.250mg sounds decent.

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## sdsurfin

> Ok guys, but am I the only one who has no idea how to even use (mix/dose) OC or seti? I mean, it's just sorta hard to get the ball rolling and try to drive the price down when you have no idea what you're aiming for. I for one don't even know how much I would need per day/month for maintenance, much less what that would amount to cost-wise - and I might not be the only one. 
> Maybe it would be a good idea to eventually start a thread on OC/seti use and mixing similar to hellouser's Complete RU58841 Usage Guide(?)
> And thanks to everyone for putting so much effort into this.


 Just waiting on the guy to get back to us with a price still. Hang tight.  When we figure it out I will start a new thread. Unless you're rich, Don't buy any of this stuff from Kane, its a rip off.

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## kantian

Thanks again for your efforts sdsurfin. I'm basically going to do as you say. This forum needs a leader and some followers, so I'm happy to enlist as a follower.

When I last checked, the teamTLR website was down.

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## diffuseloser

Can't wait to try this stuff out but won't be buying from Kane. He's milked me dry with RU already. Thanks for all the input guys this forum has really been smoking the past couple of weeks and we seem to have a lot of new options coming our way. Been interesting reading that's for sure.

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## KO1

I think that we're all getting splintered in our efforts. Instead of divvying up time between OC and seti, I say we all focus on ONE molecule, whether it be seti or OC we can decide, and put together a list of suppliers that can be our supply chain and do a massive group buy. Right now one person brings up seti, another guy says, "OC is better, let's do that"....I think we will get nowhere like this.

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## unbalding

> I think that we're all getting splintered in our efforts. Instead of divvying up time between OC and seti, I say we all focus on ONE molecule, whether it be seti or OC we can decide, and put together a list of suppliers that can be our supply chain and do a massive group buy. Right now one person brings up seti, another guy says, "OC is better, let's do that"....I think we will get nowhere like this.


 OC has a good number of positive testimonials behind it on the forums. Setipiprant does not have any. Personally I'm on board for OC or TM. I'm currently having some success with ramatroban, so I'm not interested in switching to something that no one has had any success with yet.

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## Atum

Is it possible for Europe aswell?

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## Johnny2000

can someone explaine to me, without being to technicel, what this product is and does? are we talking regrowth, if so, how much? is there a shedding face like minox?


i am from denmark, is it possible to get thhrough custom without any problems?

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## Coizi

Well to be honest at the moment i got chronicel diseas (coughing and al that shit over and over again and my doc prescribed me AERIUS funny iTS from merc and co but i do notie less hair faling out maybe iTS just my mind but AERIUS is also à pdg2 Blokker on prescription lol

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## FeelsBad

I just found this article from 2012 that says clinical trials on setipiprant were canceled due to lack of efficacy. Can someone explain?

http://www.rttnews.com/1852195/actel...-rhinitis.aspx

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## Swooping

> I just found this article from 2012 that says clinical trials on setipiprant were canceled due to lack of efficacy. Can someone explain?
> 
> http://www.rttnews.com/1852195/actel...-rhinitis.aspx


 It has failed 7 clinical trials due to displaying almost no efficiency. Basically the same effects were attained as placebo. Although this wasn't directed to androgenetic alopecia. Due to these results Actelion basically throwed setipiprant in the trash can and are working with a compound which is  "100x" more potent than setipiprant itself. They probably think that a more potent compound will actually do something.

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## FearTheLoss

Which begs the question, why specifically did cots choose seti? Will they be using it at a much higher dose?

I mean cots knows everything about this drug, they didn't chose it for nothing.

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## Swooping

I wouldn't be surprised if Kythera just picked it up for some spare change, literally nothing. Due to established safety they can rapidly initiate a human trial. Actelion wanted to throw the compound in the thrash can anyway so they get some spare money from it, always better than nothing. With the outlook of possibly getting more. So for Kythera it's a win, pick up a compound for almost nothing and Actelion wanted to get rid of it anyway and in return they get a bit out of it. A win-win situation.

I doubt they will be using way higher dosages. Oral dosages of 1 gram per day were given in  trials of setipiprant. 1 gram is much and just shows that setipiprant isn't potent. There are several other CRTH2 antagonists in clinical trials who are way more potent. For example; OC459, ADC3680 and some others. 

Cotsarelis and Kythera just both hope for validity for their hypothesis that's it. They have gotten a cheap opportunity now. We will also get to know soon if the ying yang theory (PGD2/PGE2) of AGA proves to be true.

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## FeelsBad

Swooping, so you don't think there is a vey good chance that setipip will work for aga?

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## FearTheLoss

I doubt that. Cots has been working on it for awhile and trialled more than just seti in vitro. They tried numerous pgd2 inhibitors and decided seti in oral form was the best.

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## Hairismylife

> Swooping, so you don't think there is a vey good chance that setipip will work for aga?


 Swoop is a naysayer to the whole pgd2 theory.
Anything falls within this scope won't work in his mind.

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## Swooping

> Swooping, so you don't think there is a vey good chance that setipip will work for aga?


 For maintenance, definitively way worse than finasteride. For regrowth no chance obviously. For scalp inflammation relief will probably work good. Speculation though, we will see. Time will tell  :Wink: .

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## FearTheLoss

> For maintenance, definitively way worse than finasteride. For regrowth no chance obviously. For scalp inflammation relief will probably work good. Speculation though, we will see. Time will tell .


 LOL..and you're basing this information off of what? 

Why don't you go tell cots and kythera that their product and theory is bs..im sure they will want to know your scientific opinion based off years of your own research and expertise.

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## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> For maintenance, definitively way worse than finasteride. For regrowth no chance obviously. For scalp inflammation relief will probably work good. Speculation though, we will see. Time will tell .


 You seem very uninformed on the matter. No company invests in research done by the leading expert in hair biology for 2 years, then sets up trials for a drug to be used based on that research. It costs money -- millions of dollars. They are betting big, because they highly expect to win big.

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## Swooping

> LOL..and you're basing this information off of what? 
> 
> Why don't you go tell cots and kythera that their product and theory is bs..im sure they will want to know your scientific opinion based off years of your own research and expertise.


 Someone asked me for my opinion so I did give my opinion. Furthermore you can see that I say myself that my opinion is based on speculation. 

You asked my why I form this opinion about the PGD2 angle. I'll tell you. I follow the masses generally. Currently Cotsarelis & Garza are sitting on an island. The discovery of PGD2 is almost 5 years old. In the meantime several researchers attain the fact of other important factors in androgenetic alopecia. Nobody followed up Cotsarelis & Garza his work or even showed a interest.

They are showing that other factors in androgenetic alopecia are involved which we didn't touch upon yet even in modern medicine. That the problem evolves around the cells adopting a other cell fate. Furthermore COX-2 is mediated by MAPK/JNK, Nf-Kb and 20 other transcriptional regulators so it may very well lay downstream and not be an important factor after all. If I have to chose between the consensus of multiple researchers/teams or only Dr. Cotsarelis. I'm going to go with the former, sorry.  I can link all those studies for you and discuss them with you if you like. 

That aside Garza works closely together with Cotsarelis and concurs with the idea that the PGD2 angle is 50/50 and may be an unimportant factor after all. So they both know damn well that they also have a hypothesis and nothing more at the moment. That's why they probably picked up this compound after all. They still believe in it, but that doesn't mean that they are right.

Also as I said multiple CRTH2 compounds are in clinical trials and medicines have been used and still are which evolve around manipulation of prostaglandins. This strengthens my opinion that the PGD2 has a very low probability of working as good as finasteride. 

I'm sorry furthermore if I hurt your feelings with my opinion. Perhaps the thought of it not going to succeed is really hard for you to imagine? Reality is a bitch sometimes I guess.

Do you know how much funding goes into cancer and atherosclerosis on a side note? There are 100's of hypotheses released each year for those diseases. 100's of academics, extremely talented researchers are on the quest of curing these diseases. Literally with 100x the magnitude and effort of androgenetic alopecia. Pharmaceutical companies are throwing billions around in these sectors like it's nothing. Do you know how many of these hypotheses and compounds fail? I guess you don't. Welcome to the real world.

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## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> Someone asked me for my opinion so I did give my opinion. Furthermore you can see that I say myself that my opinion is based on speculation. 
> 
> You asked my why I form this opinion about the PGD2 angle. I'll tell you. I follow the masses generally. Currently Cotsarelis & Garza are sitting on an island. The discovery of PGD2 is almost 5 years old. In the meantime several researchers attain the fact of other important factors in androgenetic alopecia. Nobody followed up Cotsarelis & Garza his work or even showed a interest.
> 
> They are showing that other factors in androgenetic alopecia are involved which we didn't touch upon yet even in modern medicine. That the problem evolves around the cells adopting a other cell fate. Furthermore COX-2 is mediated by MAPK/JNK, Nf-Kb and 20 other transcriptional regulators so it may very well lay downstream and not be an important factor after all. If I have to chose between the consensus of multiple researchers/teams or only Dr. Cotsarelis. I'm going to go with the former, sorry.  I can link all those studies for you and discuss them with you if you like. 
> 
> That aside Garza works closely together with Cotsarelis and concurs with the idea that the PGD2 angle is 50/50 and may be an unimportant factor after all. So they both know damn well that they also have a hypothesis and nothing more at the moment. That's why they probably picked up this compound after all. They still believe in it, but that doesn't mean that they are right.
> 
> Also as I said multiple CRTH2 compounds are in clinical trials and medicines have been used and still are which evolve around manipulation of prostaglandins. This strengthens my opinion that the PGD2 has a very low probability of working as good as finasteride. 
> ...


 Armchair scientist ^

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## Swooping

> Armchair scientist ^


 You call Philpott, Bahta, Y. Yang,  Christiano, Upton, among others armchair scientists? LOL. I rest my case. Anyway we'll see. Just know that every second counts in AGA. Luckily I'm not the one who is hoping  :Smile: .

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## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> You call Philpott, Bahta, Y. Yang,  Christiano, Upton, among others armchair scientists? LOL. I rest my case. Anyway we'll see. Just know that every second counts in AGA. Luckily I'm not the one who is hoping .


 No, no, no. I'm calling YOU an armchair scientist. You have no affiliation or in-depth knowledge of their work, and also proclaim to know more than Cotsarelis, the world's foremost authority on hair biology. Quite arrogant to do so.

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## Swooping

First of all I never claimed to know more than him. Stop calling him an authority because he isn't an authority and will never be. Other researchers/people who work in the field are just equally important as him. I just happen to base my opinion rather on the consensus, what's wrong with that can you tell me? If 15+ researchers say Y and 2 researchers says X, I happen to go for option Y. Especially if it's more logical to me. Cause that is what happens lately in AGA research. 

Furthermore I refer you to Garza his work who is implicated with Cotsarelis in the PGD2 findings; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24521203. He *HIMSELF* concurs with the fact that PGD2 may be very well be an irrelevant small player in AGA. He concurs with the fact that perhaps it won't work at all. 

So the hypothese still stands, it can only be validated by in vivo validation through double placebo controlled trials. That's how science works, whether you like it or not. There is 0% proof for it yet.

I just happen to have an opinion that it most likely isn't going to work good at all and furthermore concur with other researchers. I have all rights too form an opinion as do you. Sorry if that hurts you again. I'm straightforward and honest to my own opinion, hate it or love it babe <3.

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## Swooping

Here you go straight from Garza his mouth. He works alongside Cotsarelis;

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## FearTheLoss

I agree there is reason to be skeptical, swooping, but with anecdotal results people have had using pgd2 inhibitors, and myself experiencing results with cetrizine..I think we will see that pgd2 inhibitors could be as effective or more effective then AA's. 

We will have a definite answer to this by the end of 2016. Ken Washinek also supports the theory and believes its part of the future of treatments. It's not just cots.

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## Swooping

> I agree there is reason to be skeptical, swooping, but with anecdotal results people have had using pgd2 inhibitors, and myself experiencing results with cetrizine..I think we will see that pgd2 inhibitors could be as effective or more effective then AA's. 
> 
> We will have a definite answer to this by the end of 2016. Ken Washinek also supports the theory and believes its part of the future of treatments. It's not just cots.


 __________________________________________________  __________________________________________________  __________________________________________________  ________________





> *Nov. 4, 2004* -- Balding men and women take note. Hair cloning -- the next hair restoration remedy -- is on the way.
> 
> OK, it's not exactly cloning, although that's what it's come to be called. Researchers working to perfect the new technique prefer the term "hair multiplication."
> 
> And no, it's not ready for prime time. Not yet, says Ken Washenik, MD, PhD. Washenik is medical director for Bosley, the giant hair restoration company that's one of several firms racing to bring hair multiplication to market. He's also clinical assistant professor of dermatology at New York University Medical Center.
> 
> *"There is no doubt it will be a tremendous breakthrough," Washenik tells WebMD.* *"It is the thing people have been waiting for.* There have been so many remedies for hair loss that didn't pan out. This is one that really looks like it is going to happen -- and happen in the next few years.*" It's not just hype, says* *hair researcher George Cotsarelis*, professor of dermatology and director of the hair and scalp clinic, at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine in Philadelphia. Cotsarelis consults for Bosley, but is not involved in the company's research program.
> 
> "It is hard to predict whether they will be successful, but there is good evidence that will happen," Cotsarelis tells WebMD. "It is not quackery -- they are not charlatans. It is based on real scientific knowledge. But there are a lot of hurdles still to overcome."
> ...


 That was in 2004, FearTheloss, 11 years ago. Just a small reality check.

 On a positive note I do think that we are finally heading in the right direction and research goes faster than ever. I just think there is too much evidence to think that PGD2 is a minor contribution of AGA and definitely not a big one. I just concur with the consensus of other researchers in the AGA pathology recently. That's all. But we'll see mate, indeed 2016 will bring us the answers!

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## KO1

Swooping is right, even Cots and Garza have been clear that they don't know if it will work. Even in the original PGD2 study they didn't do the all important step of applying a PGD2 inhibitor on one of those bald mice, which I found odd.

My expectation is that it will probably work, not as well as fin, but without the sides, but no real regrowth. Hopefully I'm wrong.

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## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> First of all I never claimed to know more than him. Stop calling him an authority because he isn't an authority and will never be. Other researchers/people who work in the field are just equally important as him. I just happen to base my opinion rather on the consensus, what's wrong with that can you tell me? If 15+ researchers say Y and 2 researchers says X, I happen to go for option Y. Especially if it's more logical to me. Cause that is what happens lately in AGA research. 
> 
> Furthermore I refer you to Garza his work who is implicated with Cotsarelis in the PGD2 findings; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24521203. He *HIMSELF* concurs with the fact that PGD2 may be very well be an irrelevant small player in AGA. He concurs with the fact that perhaps it won't work at all. 
> 
> So the hypothese still stands, it can only be validated by in vivo validation through double placebo controlled trials. That's how science works, whether you like it or not. There is 0% proof for it yet.
> 
> I just happen to have an opinion that it most likely isn't going to work good at all and furthermore concur with other researchers. I have all rights too form an opinion as do you. Sorry if that hurts you again. I'm straightforward and honest to my own opinion, hate it or love it babe <3.


 You are entitled to your own opinion, but your arguments are mostly negative speculation based on old information. 

Prostaglandin technology is a new school of thought when it comes to battling male pattern baldness. A PGD2 inhibitor (setipiprant) and a prostaglandin analogue (bimatoprost) have always been linked. One claims it can halt hair loss, the other claims it can make existing hair thicker, and with more pigmentation. When the phase 2b study for bimatoprost in AGA was completed, Allergan was acquired by Actavis for a record-breaking sum in the pharma industry, with the stock going through the roof (and continues to climb). If the drug had failed in the trial, then it would've been stopped, and we'd hear nothing more about prostaglandins and hair.

Quite the opposite has happened. Not only did we see the acquisition, the stock grew exponentially, but we also saw that Kythera wants to trial a drug that blocks the GPR44 receptor. This is now the ONLY drug in their trials, and after two years of working with Cotsarelis at his lab, they are trialling it. They wouldn't put their eggs in one basket, or take the risk of trialling a drug for hair loss (after there have been so many misses by others) unless they had some assurance that this works. 

It works, the science is real, and the pharma industry's actions prove that they firmly believe this will work. Kythera is not the sort of company who can afford a failure or a gamble on a drug their not certain will stop hair loss. Like I said before, it's the ONLY drug in their pipeline, it is their future. They have decided on it. Sorry you don't agree with PGD2 causing hair loss or whatever, but Cotsarelis is the head of Dermatology at UPenn and has done years of research on this. A company has decided to take up his work, and spend MILLIONS of dollars to try and produce it. They would need to be damn sure it works, if they were going to take that risk.

You just need to look for the right signals or bits of information. I think you are missing them.

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## KO1

PGD2 is definitely a good and interesting angle as it directly causes miniaturization and sebaceous gland hyperplasia. However, if it is downstream of the AR....I'm afraid it may just be a maintenance med. However for those who can't take fin, or don't want to take fin, it may be a big asset.


I think PGD2 will be useful in building a mouse model of AGA though.

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## Swooping

@It's2014ComeOnAlready, We just happen to look at things differently. That's cool, it's healthy after all. 

Thing is I care for evidence. That's how science works. Not by some company claiming anything or a researcher claiming anything. I also don't get convinced by in vitro models or rat models. Prove is what I want through validation by a proper in vivo trial/experiment. That's how science works. By your philosophy we would have cured cancer and be living for 500 years now. Hell, AGA would have been cured 15 years ago. 

On a side note, bimatoprost also got outperformed by minoxidil in the clinical trial of allergan 13% vs 22%. Almost double as good results by minoxidil. *That is* *actual evidence.* . Anyway I'll get back to you in a while when we know more  :Smile: . Maybe you are right!

----------


## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> @It's2014ComeOnAlready, We just happen to look at things differently. That's cool, it's healthy after all. 
> 
> Thing is I care for evidence. That's how science works. Not by some company claiming anything or a researcher claiming anything. I also don't get convinced by in vitro models or rat models. Prove is what I want through validation by a proper in vivo trial/experiment. That's how science works. By your philosophy we would have cured cancer and be living for 500 years now. Hell, AGA would have been cured 15 years ago. 
> 
> On a side note, bimatoprost also got outperformed by minoxidil in the clinical trial of allergan 13% vs 22%. Almost double as good results by minoxidil. *That is* *actual evidence.* . Anyway I'll get back to you in a while when we know more . Maybe you are right!


 That is evidence, but it is OLD evidence based on an earlier trial. The trial that followed was 10X the concentration. We don't know yet what those results are, but if all the big pharma activity is any indication, it outperforms minoxidil.

----------


## Swooping

> That is evidence, but it is OLD evidence based on an earlier trial. The trial that followed was 10X the concentration. We don't know yet what those results are, but if all the big pharma activity is any indication, it outperforms minoxidil.


 Still wishful thinking, I bet you would say the same thing a year ago when these results weren't known and we would have this discussion. Can you link me to a valid source where it states that they are using 10x the concentration? Anyway by all means I do actually *hope* you are right.

----------


## It's2014ComeOnAlready

Not wishful thinking. Here's the article:  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...ill-be-delayed 

Now, what was the effect of this trial? Shares fell. After the most recent trial - 66 billion dollar acquisition, stock prices soar, kythera announces they will begin trials with setipiprant. You seem to behind in the news, they ran a 2a trial which didn't show much, then they ran 2b trial at 10X the concentration. That trial ended in November, when Allergan was acquired by Actavis. 

Cause and effect.

By the way, the results of the phase 2a were known a few months after the trial was completed. You're just biased about all of this. I don't need to prove anything to you, because I've done my homework. I suggest you do yours.

----------


## It's2014ComeOnAlready

Also, if you look at the amount of money that has been moved based on knowledge about prostaglandins, that should tell you something. Just because all the information hasn't yet been made public doesn't mean it isn't so.

----------


## Swooping

> Not wishful thinking. Here's the article:  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...ill-be-delayed 
> 
> Now, what was the effect of this trial? Shares fell. After the most recent trial - 66 billion dollar acquisition, stock prices soar, kythera announces they will begin trials with setipiprant. You seem to behind in the news, they ran a 2a trial which didn't show much, then they ran 2b trial at 10X the concentration. That trial ended in November, when Allergan was acquired by Actavis. 
> 
> Cause and effect.
> 
> By the way, the results of the phase 2a were known a few months after the trial was completed. You're just biased about all of this. I don't need to prove anything to you, because I've done my homework. I suggest you do yours.


 Sure thanks you did update me on some new findings that I didn't know.I didn't know the actual amount was 10x as much. However that says nothing, literally nothing. 1mg of finasteride doesn't differ much more than 10mg, as does 5% minoxidil to 15% minoxidil. 

Also Allergan was insanely rapid with providing results and shouting their positive results with their DARPin trial for macular degeneration. They immediately released a statement that they will rapidly proceed to a phase 3 trial in Q2 of 2015 for this compound; http://www.pmlive.com/pharma_news/al...xt_year_581662.

Why not with bimatoprost for AGA? Why are they so horribly quiet at the moment?

----------


## Swooping

Allergan took less than 3 months after completion of phase 2 of DARPin to immediately give out a confirmation & presentation of their positive results with the compound. Within the same time they confirmed to rapidly proceed to a phase 3 trial in Q2 this year; http://www.allergan.com/assets/pdf/r...jun30_2014.pdf

However with bimatoprost for AGA they won't release the results for a year?  Still no confirmation of a phase 3 trial? That's odd! Guess they have much to think about  :Wink: ?

----------


## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> Allergan took less than 3 months after completion of phase 2 of DARPin to immediately give out a confirmation & presentation of their positive results with the compound. Within the same time they confirmed to rapidly proceed to a phase 3 trial in Q2 this year; http://www.allergan.com/assets/pdf/r...jun30_2014.pdf
> 
> However with bimatoprost for AGA they won't release the results for a year?  Still no confirmation of a phase 3 trial? That's odd! Guess they have much to think about ?


 You missed the point. When they launched this program, what they had in mind was a treatment superior to minoxidil that also has the added benefit of working anywhere on the scalp. They had no plans of releasing this drug if it was marginally better, and those were the results they got from phase 2a. In 2b, they tried 10x that concentration. If it didn't work, there wouldn't be anything stopping them from saying it didn't work, and the program has been shut down. However, they believed enough in this drug and that it needed to be upped in concentration to show better efficacy. If it did, that means they are a trial away from releasing bimatoprost as a treatment. 

If a drug has succeeded in making a significant difference in your hair loss, there's just no chance in hell that the company who's on the verge of making billions (per their estimate) will let everyone know they have something as soon as they know. They keep things moving to get it out and make money as soon as possible. 

I doubt the success is a mystery to shareholders, or Kythera, whose Chief Medical Officer spent years previously at Allergan (no coincidence). Kythera has been working with Cotsarelis and felt confident enough that they would focus on the development of setipiprant for hair loss, exclusively. They have no other drugs in the pipeline. No company with this amount of value, or expertise will ever gamble their future on something that wasn't as close to a sure deal as possible. They will not pin their hopes on a drug that won't work. There's too much at stake for them.

----------


## sdsurfin

Swooping is too broadly negative without having real data or citing good evidence of his own. Garza never said anything about not having faith in this approach.  I emailed with him a while ago and he said that they knew the PGD2 thing has promise, but it was a matter of finding the right drug. Prostaglandins are being backed by big people, people who stand to lose money. Cotsarellis does not want to waste anyones time either.  there's definitely potential, and I think it will turn out well, especially for maintenance and people with early loss.  And Im with 2014 on the BIM call, I think they will try to release it and are holding out because of that. its a guess, but a good one.  They might also have had decent results and might be deciding whether or not to go ahead with it.  Either way minoxidil is looking like it might become a thing of the past.  Between BIM and SM and follicept and others, its only a matter of time.  My guess is the PDG2 blockers and BIM will be released as a one two punch.  Of course everything could fail, but at this point I think that's less likely than it has been in the past. Most of the therapies that have failed so far have either been cell based, with not enough science done on them at that point, or anti androgens that carried pretty heavy side effect risks. But i honestly can't name more than one or two drugs specifically made for hair loss that have failed.  most of the ones people cite are like aderans or intercytex, and those technologies were not quite there yet.  we already have anecdotal evidence that PGD2 blockers and BIM work to a large degree.   

Kythera would not waste time trialling setipiprant if they didn't think it was going to work. their trials might be cheap compared to most but they will still cost.  It's a win win for action, and thats why they are using this PGD2 blocker and not another one, among other reasons.  if these guys and Upenn think it has a good chance then there's no reason to say "oh this has no chance"   I'll hold out hope for the guys who are professionals to be right.  I think hands down it will help to some extent, so let's hope they release it.  


PS I've been using cetirizine and it has helped the itch. also no side effects anymore. except maybe possibly a bit of drowsiness, but i use it at night.  not sure if its doing much for my hair, but if the side effect profile is similar for setipi then it'll probably be very tolerable. i get sides from everything. had to quit RU two weeks in cause i felt destroyed by it, sore balls and just shitty in general, feeling like i lost my life force.

----------


## PinotQ

> You are entitled to your own opinion, but your arguments are mostly negative speculation based on old information. 
> 
> Prostaglandin technology is a new school of thought when it comes to battling male pattern baldness. A PGD2 inhibitor (setipiprant) and a prostaglandin analogue (bimatoprost) have always been linked. One claims it can halt hair loss, the other claims it can make existing hair thicker, and with more pigmentation. When the phase 2b study for bimatoprost in AGA was completed, Allergan was acquired by Actavis for a record-breaking sum in the pharma industry, with the stock going through the roof (and continues to climb). If the drug had failed in the trial, then it would've been stopped, and we'd hear nothing more about prostaglandins and hair.
> 
> Quite the opposite has happened. Not only did we see the acquisition, the stock grew exponentially, but we also saw that Kythera wants to trial a drug that blocks the GPR44 receptor. This is now the ONLY drug in their trials, and after two years of working with Cotsarelis at his lab, they are trialling it. They wouldn't put their eggs in one basket, or take the risk of trialling a drug for hair loss (after there have been so many misses by others) unless they had some assurance that this works. 
> 
> It works, the science is real, and the pharma industry's actions prove that they firmly believe this will work. Kythera is not the sort of company who can afford a failure or a gamble on a drug their not certain will stop hair loss. Like I said before, it's the ONLY drug in their pipeline, it is their future. They have decided on it. Sorry you don't agree with PGD2 causing hair loss or whatever, but Cotsarelis is the head of Dermatology at UPenn and has done years of research on this. A company has decided to take up his work, and spend MILLIONS of dollars to try and produce it. They would need to be damn sure it works, if they were going to take that risk.
> 
> You just need to look for the right signals or bits of information. I think you are missing them.


 I'm not saying anything negative about BIM as I think it has a good shot of being another step forward.  But I follow business and stocks very closely and had happened to own Allergan at the time of the takeover....and the takeover price has absolutely nothing to do with BIM.   This was about a company with a lot of value that Valeant was going to buy and gut the research budget as is their business model.  Valeant is in the business of taking over pharmaceuticals, getting rid of research and letting that 20% or so expense fall to the bottom line as profit and as a way to pay for the takeover.  We are lucky that Activis bought Allergan instead so that BIM trials will continue.

----------


## KO1

Has anyone looked at these results? Oddly, Minot sponsored by Allergan

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/...70156#outcome1

----------


## Swooping

> I'm not saying anything negative about BIM as I think it has a good shot of being another step forward.  But I follow business and stocks very closely and had happened to own Allergan at the time of the takeover....and the takeover price has absolutely nothing to do with BIM.   This was about a company with a lot of value that Valeant was going to buy and gut the research budget as is their business model.  Valeant is in the business of taking over pharmaceuticals, getting rid of research and letting that 20% or so expense fall to the bottom line as profit and as a way to pay for the takeover.  We are lucky that Activis bought Allergan instead so that BIM trials will continue.


 Well there you go. Guess you only depend on Cotsarelis now It's2014ComeOnAlready. Because he is the "head of dermatology". You know what's funny? He said 3 times in the past that a cure would arrive within 5 years. Always the biggest mouth of all researchers. Yet he never showed any results, how ironic is that! Time for retirement after his seti fail. Results are that matter again, and bimatoprost is still outperformed by minoxidil until they show otherwise. Upjohn must really be laughing their asses off. For over 35 years nobody can come close. Anyway we will know everything soon  when results will be published.

----------


## Jasari

Just got an email from Kane selling Setip for $130 for 10G

----------


## FeelsBad

When will he be able to sell it?

----------


## Jasari

> Dear friend,
> 
> This is Kane Team from Kouting China.We can`t sell OC,TM,BIO,DKK etc on shop because of paypal issue.
> We`re glad to offer better service with product cheaper and cheaper. We`re glad to bring more value to our customers.
> ASC-J9  	917813-54-8	≥99%
> 17 alpha-propionate	19608-29-8	≥98%       
> Ramantroban	116649-85-5	≥98%
> OC000459 salt	851723-84-7	≥98%
> TM30089 	844639-57-2	≥99%
> ...


 From what I understand Setip needs to be around 2g per day? So $130/10g is way too expensive.

----------


## Justinian

> From what I understand Setip needs to be around 2g per day? So $130/10g is way too expensive.


 That's for oral right?

Are these group buys raw powder?

----------


## nave13579

My understanding is you want 100mg - 500mg a day if you go the oral method

----------


## Atum

> From what I understand Setip needs to be around 2g per day? So $130/10g is way too expensive.


 How's that?

----------


## Illusion

> That's for oral right?


 Yeah 2g/day would be oral but I don't know if a topical is possible. Well, ofc you can try but if I recall correctly I believe there were some vehicle /dosage problems? Might just be the standard experiment-treatment problem stuff though (aka "this is new how the **** are we going to do this"), not sure.

----------


## Atum

Am on the verge of buying some. But now i hear you guys saying you need 2 grams, I don't know. 

I was planning to apply some topical dissolving it in ethanol + PG.

----------


## FeelsBad

Where does he 2G orally number come from? I thought we didn't have studies on its use for aga.

----------


## Sogeking

I am interested in OC buy, is that included in group buy?

As for the dose for Setipripant, the dose used in studies for asthmatics was 1000mg (1g). For instance like in this study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24964348

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Where does he 2G orally number come from? I thought we didn't have studies on its use for aga.


 2g a day was for safety trials...I'd be very surprised if you need anywhere near this amount for AGA. We won't know until they start trials though.

----------


## KO1

I think 250mg seems to be the most common multi day dose.

----------


## Illusion

But is there really no way we can use this topically? Like I said, I thought there was something that made applying setip topically less optimal but a) I can't remember what it was and b) I don't know if there really was anything in the first place.

Surely if we can figure out a topical dose (vehicle, concentration etc), $130/10g would be dirt cheap, even for high concentrations (10% would last you 100 days, so that would be only $1.30/day or $39 a month).

----------


## sdsurfin

I advise waiting until TLR gets back to us on price. Setipip doesn't seem to be good for use as a topical, but Im not a chemist. I will ask TLR.  I think OC or TM are gonna be the way to go.

----------


## robjacksen

> I advise waiting until TLR gets back to us on price. Setipip doesn't seem to be good for use as a topical, but Im not a chemist. I will ask TLR.  I think OC or TM are gonna be the way to go.


 
Any updates on when they'll have oc? Should be within a week or so now right?

----------


## Follisket

Yeah, do we perhaps know when approximately we can expect to hear back from them and just how trustworthy they are? 
I'm getting heavy panic attacks over my hair loss and would need to find a solution asap. I'm actually leaning more towards OC right now, just because it's been tried and proven to work (however, I'd be more than willing to participate in a seti group buy later on too if it's proven to at least do something). 
If all other options fail, I'll probably try to get OC through Kane. And on that topic - is Kane/Anageninc's OC at least legit? Would hate to waste so much money on something that does jack all.

----------


## robjacksen

> Yeah, do we perhaps know when approximately we can expect to hear back from them and just how trustworthy they are? 
> I'm getting heavy panic attacks over my hair loss and would need to find a solution asap. I'm actually leaning more towards OC right now, just because it's been tried and proven to work (however, I'd be more than willing to participate in a seti group buy later on too if it's proven to at least do something). 
> If all other options fail, I'll probably try to get OC through Kane. And on that topic - is Kane/Anageninc's OC at least legit? Would hate to waste so much money on something that does jack all.


 
*This is what they said to me in an email yesterday*


Hi, we are looking to afford such and in a superior format.  Hope to have good word very soon!

On 3/12/2015 8:47 PM, Robjacksen wrote:
Hello,

Do you think OC will be available soon? Also, will it be salted so it can be dissolved in ethanol?

Thanks!

----------


## Follisket

I see, thank you for sharing that. Guess I'll try and sit tight for a few more weeks. Let's hope for the best!

----------


## Jasari

> I think 250mg seems to be the most common multi day dose.


 I've just had a huge shed losing half my head of hair in a few months. If 250mg is remotely worthwhile I'll order today and start logging photo results on here the moment it arrives.

I'm the furthest thing from a chemist though. Is there recommended storage? I.e refrigeration? And any reason who 250mg would have a chance of being effective?

----------


## sdsurfin

I really don't think these are going to do much for regrowth. If you're losing half your hair in a few months you might want to consider just coming to terms with your baldness, that sounds pretty hard to combat.  OC and setipip I think will be good for maintenance once we have an affordable source, Im scared dudes on here will buy it for a high price, give up because it is not regrowing tons of hair, and give it a bad rap.  These are the kinds of finasteride alternatives that we need for young guys to keep the hair they have.  I've never seen anyone lose half their hair in a few months, if that happened to me I'd probably just say f it Im a bald guy and move on, at least until some serious stem cell regeneration cures come into play.

----------


## FeelsBad

There is a group buy going on for setipripant? Can someone link me to the details?

----------


## dontwanttobald

> I really don't think these are going to do much for regrowth. If you're losing half your hair in a few months you might want to consider just coming to terms with your baldness, that sounds pretty hard to combat.  OC and setipip I think will be good for maintenance once we have an affordable source, Im scared dudes on here will buy it for a high price, give up because it is not regrowing tons of hair, and give it a bad rap.  These are the kinds of finasteride alternatives that we need for young guys to keep the hair they have.  I've never seen anyone lose half their hair in a few months, if that happened to me I'd probably just say f it Im a bald guy and move on, at least until some serious stem cell regeneration cures come into play.


 When do you reckon we can get seti from tlr? I really want to maintain what I have and don't want to risk getting on propecia to do it

----------


## KO1

> When do you reckon we can get seti from tlr? I really want to maintain what I have and don't want to risk getting on propecia to do it


 There is no other way apart from propecia. PGD2 is a hypothesis at this point, not the cornerstone of a treatment plan. Always start with proven treatments.

----------


## dontwanttobald

> There is no other way apart from propecia. PGD2 is a hypothesis at this point, not the cornerstone of a treatment plan. Always start with proven treatments.


 But it's side effects are too much so I want to try alternatives

----------


## ghostrider

I really think the combination of Ru58841 + pdg2 + follicep will bring treatments to next level.

----------


## Illusion

> But it's side effects are too much so I want to try alternatives


 Have you never tried propecia because you're scared of sides or have you tried propecia and the sides were too much for you to handle? Because if it's the former (never tried propecia because you're scared) then man the **** up and try it. The chance of you getting irreversible or long lasting sides is very small (inb4 people saying "But I got them!!!!") and there's a much bigger chance you'll get great results with no to little sides.

For real, I don't get this whole attitude about scared for fin sides, you guys read way too many propeciahelp stuff. Sure if you get sides then drop fin but if you haven't even tried it, you're doing it wrong.

----------


## Jasari

> I really don't think these are going to do much for regrowth. If you're losing half your hair in a few months you might want to consider just coming to terms with your baldness, that sounds pretty hard to combat.  OC and setipip I think will be good for maintenance once we have an affordable source, Im scared dudes on here will buy it for a high price, give up because it is not regrowing tons of hair, and give it a bad rap.  These are the kinds of finasteride alternatives that we need for young guys to keep the hair they have.  I've never seen anyone lose half their hair in a few months, if that happened to me I'd probably just say f it Im a bald guy and move on, at least until some serious stem cell regeneration cures come into play.


 I've had hairloss for 10 years now which has been stable for 5 - So the recent shed is more than likely a result of changing fin brands. I imagine it will come back with time.

If I can use this as a fin replacement though it would be perfect.

----------


## NOhairNOlife

So what's happening with this?

----------


## Illusion

> So the recent shed is more than likely a result of changing fin brands.


 How would that be possible? I can see some logic behind shedding when you transition from fin to dut or from a low dose of fin to a high dose of fin, but switching brands? Fin is fin right?

----------


## Jasari

> How would that be possible? I can see some logic behind shedding when you transition from fin to dut or from a low dose of fin to a high dose of fin, but switching brands? Fin is fin right?


 I've had this same conversation with my doctor and honestly I have no answer for it. So my original method was propecia in a gelatine capsule.

Combined with a HT I went from Norwood 4 to a thick Norwood 2. I switched to generic and shed the top and even around the ears for some reason. Got back on brand name and regrew everything.

Around 6 months ago common sense told me "why am I paying double for the same thing" - I changed to generic and shed half my head of hair.

I'm now 3 weeks back on brand name inside a gelatine capsule (no idea what this does but I roll with it) and my shedding has stopped completely.

Long story short - I have no idea what the differance is but there is definitely something that drastically changes efficacy for me.

----------


## RU58841

> How would that be possible? I can see some logic behind shedding when you transition from fin to dut or from a low dose of fin to a high dose of fin, but switching brands? Fin is fin right?


 I had read about that. Apparently some doctors worry about the authenticity of generics or something. There's at least the difference of the protective coating (to prevent the birth defect issue) on the Propecia brand pills that the generics don't have; beyond that, who knows.

When I was on the generic I switched to brand name but don't think I really noticed a difference. But Jasari apparently reports a difference in shed, so maybe it is a factor for some people.

----------


## RU58841

Yeah, I also got the email from Kane saying OC was on sale. Guess he's clued in to what's going on here.

For anybody who's interested (since it's hard to figure out where it is and their website's usability absolutely sucks) Kane's order page for OC is http://www.koutingchina.com/xddetailpro.php?id=1993 and Setipiprant is http://www.koutingchina.com/xddetailpro.php?id=3123.

Personally would rather wait a few weeks and see what TLR comes up with though.

----------


## Illusion

> I've had this same conversation with my doctor and honestly I have no answer for it. So my original method was propecia in a gelatine capsule.
> 
> Combined with a HT I went from Norwood 4 to a thick Norwood 2. I switched to generic and shed the top and even around the ears for some reason. Got back on brand name and regrew everything.
> 
> Around 6 months ago common sense told me "why am I paying double for the same thing" - I changed to generic and shed half my head of hair.
> 
> I'm now 3 weeks back on brand name inside a gelatine capsule (no idea what this does but I roll with it) and my shedding has stopped completely.
> 
> Long story short - I have no idea what the differance is but there is definitely something that drastically changes efficacy for me.


 
Hm well if you say so... Maybe it's a difference between the inactive ingredients (brand vs generic) that affects how well the active ingredient can work or something like that? I believe that the inactive ingredients in generic aren't always the same as in brand. However, surely generic versions have to pass a certain requirements to be able to be sold (in other words, I assume they can't just put 1mg fin and fill the rest of the tablet with sugar and then call it "generic finasteride").

----------


## Jasari

> Hm well if you say so... Maybe it's a difference between the inactive ingredients (brand vs generic) that affects how well the active ingredient can work or something like that? I believe that the inactive ingredients in generic aren't always the same as in brand. However, surely generic versions have to pass a certain requirements to be able to be sold (in other words, I assume they can't just put 1mg fin and fill the rest of the tablet with sugar and then call it "generic finasteride").


 Honestly no idea. It sucks because propecia is way too expensive. It makes no sense either, but ive read a lot of cases similar to mine with a quick google search.

If the success of a treatment can come down to such a small detail, it highlights the fact that experimental treatments can potentially become significantly more effective with minor alterations I.e different vehicle etc

----------


## ghostrider

Pdg2 blockers are the new propcia without sides I read everywhere.I would hope they are better for regrowth ? We should get our hands  more pdg blockers for reasonable price. You gotta be rich for  Current prices..

----------


## BiqqieSmalls

*Important news*

On March 26th at 4:30pm ET, you'll be able to call Kythera and ask any question during their 2015 Outlook Call. Please see the following link for specifics. 

http://globenewswire.com/news-releas...look-Call.html

----------


## Give it a go

So sick of thinking like a beta bitch and watching all my hard earned gym work go to waste, i wanna have the DHT flowing and NOT have to worry about my hair, Cmon seti!!!!!!!

----------


## RU58841

Okay, so I requested an appointment from Penn, mentioning Dr. Cotsarelis and his research and my situation. The receptionist called me, she was really nice and helpful, here's what she told me:

Due to his workload Cotsarelis himself hasn't taken on a new patient in over 3 years. She recommended I get an appointment with their hair department (or whatver it'd be called) at Penn and mentioned that several of the doctors there work closely with Dr. Cotsarelis. I'm gonna call back in a day or two to make an appointment.

So as far as OC/Setipiprant/pgd2, what should I ask them?

----------


## hellouser

> Okay, so I requested an appointment from Penn, mentioning Dr. Cotsarelis and his research and my situation. The receptionist called me, she was really nice and helpful, here's what she told me:
> 
> *Due to his workload Cotsarelis himself hasn't taken on a new patient in over 3 years.* She recommended I get an appointment with their hair department (or whatver it'd be called) at Penn and mentioned that several of the doctors there work closely with Dr. Cotsarelis. I'm gonna call back in a day or two to make an appointment.
> 
> So as far as OC/Setipiprant/pgd2, what should I ask them?


 Good. 

Because the guy should be focusing on a cure rather than giving the same spiel to patients; there's no cure and treatments are limited to finasteride and minoxidil, thats all he can say to anyone at this point.

----------


## KO1

> So sick of thinking like a beta bitch and watching all my hard earned gym work go to waste, i wanna have the DHT flowing and NOT have to worry about my hair, Cmon seti!!!!!!!


 There is no reason to believe lack of DHT will hurt your gym. Anyways, you care about your gym work more than your hair? Just shave your head.

----------


## Give it a go

> There is no reason to believe lack of DHT will hurt your gym. Anyways, you care about your gym work more than your hair? Just shave your head.


 Since I'm only 20 I don't really wanna champ

----------


## sdsurfin

> Okay, so I requested an appointment from Penn, mentioning Dr. Cotsarelis and his research and my situation. The receptionist called me, she was really nice and helpful, here's what she told me:
> 
> Due to his workload Cotsarelis himself hasn't taken on a new patient in over 3 years. She recommended I get an appointment with their hair department (or whatver it'd be called) at Penn and mentioned that several of the doctors there work closely with Dr. Cotsarelis. I'm gonna call back in a day or two to make an appointment.
> 
> So as far as OC/Setipiprant/pgd2, what should I ask them?


 Ask them if they think that altering the PDG2 pathway is enough of itself to permanently halt balding, and how they think it will compare to propecia.  Or if they think it will have to be used with other treatments.  Also ask them what evidence they have seen in people that would lead them to test setipiprant.  Also ask them why they specifically chose setipiprant over other CHR2 antagonists.  Was it because it was available, or because it was somehow more useful?  If you can weasel out what dose might be effective to halt balding good on ya, but something tells me that they won't help you out with that.  Maybe make it your last question  :Smile:   Maybe they will also tell you what their current research is focused on seeing as they just sold off their work on the PGD2 pathway.

----------


## Follisket

So I take it we've had no luck in finding alternative/cheaper sources for seti/OC? 
Does anyone know what the deal is with the required Company input field at Koutingchina's order page? Is there a workaround to this? Like, can you just make up a company name or what? Also, does the price they have listed apply only to group buys?
I'm terribly inexperienced with this sort of stuff, but desperate to try something out.
Thanks a bunch.

----------


## burtandernie

I know this is the underground movement to get this stuff faster, but what is the timeline on when seti is actually coming out legit?

----------


## hellouser

> I know this is the underground movement to get this stuff faster, but what is the timeline on when seti is actually coming out legit?


 5 years.

----------


## BiqqieSmalls

> 5 years.


 Lolz

----------


## Popeyes

Were they getting SETI as a pill, oral dose?

----------


## dontwanttobald

I emailed Kane/kouting China and they said they're planning to release setipiprant at around 150USD/10g. They're pretty legit with but what dose/ how would you use the setipiprant?

----------


## Give it a go

You would ingest it orally which would mean you would have to measure the doses you want using a digital scale, let's just say 100mg, then put that 100mg into a gelatine capsule which are easy to find and very cheap, and thats all there is too it.

----------


## doinmyheadin

Im keen to try especially as its oral. Stuff have to put shit in your scalp/hair.... Does anyone have experience with bringing this sort of thing into Australia ? As I heard our customs are pretty strict. I remember reading Desmond said he had something experimental confiscated by them.

----------


## Eire1980

sdsurfin - did you receive any update on this?

cheers

----------


## BiqqieSmalls

> You would ingest it orally which would mean you would have to measure the doses you want using a digital scale, let's just say 100mg, then put that 100mg into a gelatine capsule which are easy to find and very cheap, and thats all there is too it.


 Or you could put it in your OJ in the morning, for example. Doesn't necessarily have to be in a gelatin capsule.

----------


## sdsurfin

No news yet. Will keep you posted. Look to follicept for a possible near term option. Les keep our fingers crossed

----------


## Popeyes

How would we know what is an effective does orally?

----------


## DrakeDuck

Hey Hell,

I came across a thread on ************ about a setipiprant buy, and it looked like maybe you got it on it. Did you ever get any, and are you currently testing? Sorry if I missed any threads where you may have discussed this...I looked.

----------


## Farkhairloss

Any more news on whether Kane or anyone else is started manufacturing SM04554 or setipiprant?

----------


## charlie76761

> Any more news on whether Kane or anyone else is started manufacturing SM04554 or setipiprant?


 See earlier posts listed on my profile re SM: he needs more info on the compound - no one is 100% sure which molecule it is as there are a few wrt patencies by the development company

----------


## lifelonglearning

http://www.thestreet.com/video/13156...thera-ceo.html skip to 2 minutes confirms its oral drug

----------


## lifelonglearning

In February 2015, the Company entered into a licensing arrangement with Actelion and University of Pennsylvania pursuant to which it obtained exclusive worldwide rights to setipiprant, a clinical-stage selective and potent oral antagonist to the prostaglandin D 2 (PGD 2 ) receptor and exclusive worldwide rights to certain patent rights owned by the University of Pennsylvania covering the use of PGD 2 receptor antagonists for the treatment of hair loss. As part of the agreement, *Actelion received an initial payment of $1,500,000* and will be eligible to receive up to an additional $25,500,000 in potential development and regulatory milestones, as well as royalties on sales if setipiprant is successfully commercialized. *University of Pennsylvania will receive an initial payment of $100,000*, certain annual license maintenance fees beginning in the third year of the agreement, as well as is eligible to receive up to $4,125,000 in milestone payments and royalties on sales of products commercialized under the patents provided for in the agreement.

----------


## GSD

> http://www.thestreet.com/video/13156...thera-ceo.html skip to 2 minutes confirms its oral drug


  "Only prevention"  :Frown:

----------


## Swooping

> In February 2015, the Company entered into a licensing arrangement with Actelion and University of Pennsylvania pursuant to which it obtained exclusive worldwide rights to setipiprant, a clinical-stage selective and potent oral antagonist to the prostaglandin D 2 (PGD 2 ) receptor and exclusive worldwide rights to certain patent rights owned by the University of Pennsylvania covering the use of PGD 2 receptor antagonists for the treatment of hair loss. As part of the agreement, *Actelion received an initial payment of $1,500,000* and will be eligible to receive up to an additional $25,500,000 in potential development and regulatory milestones, as well as royalties on sales if setipiprant is successfully commercialized. *University of Pennsylvania will receive an initial payment of $100,000*, certain annual license maintenance fees beginning in the third year of the agreement, as well as is eligible to receive up to $4,125,000 in milestone payments and royalties on sales of products commercialized under the patents provided for in the agreement.


 As expected.. Pocket change. Actelion really wanted to get rid of that compound it seems. Going to be interesting to see what the trial will bring.

----------


## mlamber5

I think they have to say "only prevention." Cots himself has said he doesn't know if it will regrow hair in areas that already have hair loss or not. We already have a pretty damn good prevention drug on the market (finasteride). It very well may do more than just prevent hair loss/further hair loss.

----------


## KO1

> "Only prevention"


 Told you so.

----------


## FearTheLoss

SD whatever happened to TLR, have you heard from them lately?

----------


## burtandernie

I wonder how well this will work for prevention. As good as fin is its still not perfect and doesnt help some men at all. So maybe this will help a larger percent and maybe even work better at preventing hair loss at front/temples

----------


## buck

I e-mailed Kane about OC. He replied that a new batch will be ready in about 2-3 weeks and that the cost was $200/ gram. Does that sound right? At 1% every day or 2% every other day, that's over a three month supply.

----------


## champpy

Is OC supposed to be superior to RU?  Sorry im very new to these treatments

----------


## mlamber5

Not directly related to seti, but related to Cotsarelis
He is presenting at the World Hair Congress in November on this topic "Stem cells and Stem cell niches"
This is a pubmed article on the same topic by some Yale Biologists and geneticists, very interesting stuff...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...MC3988239/#R91

----------


## champpy

Can someone tell me if the OC is supposed to help with Regrowth or just maintaining existing hairs, and if its a better option than RU?

----------


## lukey

> Can someone tell me if the OC is supposed to help with Regrowth or just maintaining existing hairs, and if its a better option than RU?


 Hi Champpy, I've just started using OC but its too early to give any indication of results. Anecdotal evidence that I have read suggests its only for maintenance, but seeing as I have been on fin and minox and still slowly loosing I would be very happy with just maintenance from it. 

OC attacks AGA from a different angle. It doesn't block or reduce DHT like RU so to say what is better is difficult, especially given how few people are using OC compared to RU (mainly because of the cost). I know very little about the science of how it is supposed to work but there's plenty info around on here somewhere as well as the other hair loss forums.

If you wanted to try something that isn't going to alter your DHT then give OC a go first, but it might be the case that it only works in combination with some form of DHT blockers. We don't know enough about it at the moment. 

I hope my limited knowledge has been able to help in some way.

----------


## champpy

Well Lukey, you are by far more well versed than I. Thanks man!  I am using RU, fin, minox, salt water, carpet glue, bleach....hahaha you name it and im on it, and still losing also. Why not throw OC into the mix as well. 

Can I ask if you got yours from Kane also?  Does it mix the same way RU does, in ethanol and propylene glycol?  

Please keep us updated with any results, good or bad

----------


## NeedHairASAP

this thread is very interesting

----------


## RU58841

> SD whatever happened to TLR, have you heard from them lately?


 See this thread: https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/thread...ore-Selling-OC

tl;dr: TLR has reportedly been caught selling taurine disguised as other drugs.

----------


## RU58841

> I e-mailed Kane about OC. He replied that a new batch will be ready in about 2-3 weeks and that the cost was $200/ gram. Does that sound right? At 1% every day or 2% every other day, that's over a three month supply.


 They're up to $200/gram now? Jesus. This sucks, man. I've said this before: the solution is already out there and available, it's just too damned expensive.

----------


## buck

I thought that was down from $300/ gram

----------


## RU58841

Up from $150/gram in their most recent newsletter. Although if it used to be $300 that's a slight relief.

----------


## Not giving up

Any further news on any of this? This really is the meaning of 'hope' to someone just wanting to mantain in the early stages of loss.

----------


## Dench57

I can't believe their main concern (Kythera) is developing a drug to reduce double-chin fat. I've got a cure for that, it's called going to the ****ing gym and eating a salad once in a while. Infuriates me that a potential cure for something so irreversible and debilitating as MPB is playing second-fiddle to something as pathetic as that.

----------


## hellouser

> I can't believe their main concern (Kythera) is developing a drug to reduce double-chin fat. I've got a cure for that, it's called going to the ****ing gym and eating a salad once in a while. Infuriates me that a potential cure for something so irreversible and debilitating as MPB is playing second-fiddle to something as pathetic as that.


 Because feminism and matriarchy!

Welcome to the new world's priorities. Men's health is irrelevant.

----------


## JayM

Well yes and no. Im no expert but I assume chin fat isn't some kind of magic fat you don't find somewhere else. There are people who can't move chin fat like there are people who can't move hip fat or bum fat or fat on the arms. And I imagine this is where something like that could expand. 

And with the money their going to get for the science and research put in its probably a better gain for less effort.

But in many cases yes going to the gym will help. I can't imagine if your 30 stone that this injection will do much for your Face. And again in general it's pathetic how we still don't have better treatments for hair.

----------


## Dench57

> Well yes and no. Im no expert but I assume chin fat isn't some kind of magic fat you don't find somewhere else. There are people who can't move chin fat like there are people who can't move hip fat or bum fat or fat on the arms. And I imagine this is where something like that could expand. 
> 
> And with the money their going to get for the science and research put in its probably a better gain for less effort.


 Yeah you're right that it will be more profitable I guess. But I don't think chin fat is different to anywhere else on the body i.e can be burnt off with a strict diet and exercise. Obviously some areas are harder than others, like lovehandles are hard to burn off as a guy, but still possible.

----------


## Trouse5858

> I can't believe their main concern (Kythera) is developing a drug to reduce double-chin fat. I've got a cure for that, it's called going to the ****ing gym and eating a salad once in a while. Infuriates me that a potential cure for something so irreversible and debilitating as MPB is playing second-fiddle to something as pathetic as that.


 I agree 100 percent and feel strongly that 9 out of 10 fat people are simply not dedicated to making the changes necessary to actually lose weight - namely eating healthy and working out. On the flip side, I would subject myself to truly horrible things and agonizing temporary pain on a daily basis if it meant having a full head of hair. Hell, I'd do 6 months solitary confinement starting tomorrow no questions asked. I realize that's a f---d up mindset but that's where I'm at.

----------


## burtandernie

The company is trying to make money whether chin fat or whatever else they want. If you lose weight that weight drops off everywhere you face, and everything else all changes with weight so I still think chin fat is under control of most people if they ever care to change it. I do think hormones though can make losing/gaining weight a lot easier or harder for some people.
MPB is practically completely out of someones control though except for using treatments. You cant drop weight and gain your hair back

----------


## Conpecia

> I agree 100 percent and feel strongly that 9 out of 10 fat people are simply not dedicated to making the changes necessary to actually lose weight - namely eating healthy and working out. On the flip side, I would subject myself to truly horrible things and agonizing temporary pain on a daily basis if it meant having a full head of hair. Hell, I'd do 6 months solitary confinement starting tomorrow no questions asked. I realize that's a f---d up mindset but that's where I'm at.


 Yet you wouldn't wear a hair system, right? Makes no sense to me. We could have any kind of hair we wanted, completely undetectable. But we won't do it because of the stigma associated with "wigs." Proving what this is all really about deep down, social acceptance.

----------


## Not giving up

Tbh I think that the biggest problem is that most people felt fin was the answer. It's only in recent times that fin's safety has become more questionable (not here to start a war on the safety of fin, but it's becom clear that there is a risk with it and frankly even at 2% is too high) 
I feel no one should have to even remotely risk the sides of fin to save their hair, even if that risk is small or not, we need a safer method and the biggest problem with getting that method up until now is simply because the majority of people thought hairloss was pretty much cured via fin/minox anyway. 

The time for change has to be now.

----------


## Not giving up

Tbh I think that the biggest problem is that most people felt fin was the answer. It's only in recent times that fin's safety has become more questionable (not here to start a war on the safety of fin, but it's becom clear that there is a risk with it and frankly even at 2% is too high) 
I feel no one should have to even remotely risk the sides of fin to save their hair, even if that risk is small or not, we need a safer method and the biggest problem with getting that method up until now is simply because the majority of people thought hairloss was pretty much cured via fin/minox anyway. 

The time for change has to be now.

----------


## It's2014ComeOnAlready

21st Century Cures act is on the house floor tomorrow for a vote. If they get over 350 votes, then it looks like it will certainly be made law before they year is out. 

I think this bill could very positively effect the trials for a drug like Setipiprant. It has an excellent safety profile with thousands of patients, has had a phase 3 trial, with little to no adverse events. I am speculating here, but from everything I've read, it seems that a drug with this kind of safety profile, and number of trials under its belt (8), Allergan may just have to prove its efficacy. 

Although hair loss is not a life-threatening illness, it is a chronic condition, with no current treatment. Finasteride is not a real treatment. It is also stone-age medicine, with regard to hair loss. 

I cannot say for sure that they would do this. However, given everything I've read in the bill, they want to speed up the process, especially for a drug with the safety of 8 trials, and thousands of patient's data. It's also alway been an oral medication. The only real question at this point is - does it work for hair loss?

----------


## JayM

I thought they used words like breakthrough drugs. I don't think it has to be just life saving.

----------


## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> I thought they used words like breakthrough drugs. I don't think it has to be just life saving.


 Yea, not just lifesaving. Breakthrough drugs that treat illnesses that have no treatment or cure. The idea behind it is to spur innovation, to basically make more money. A much needed overhaul, and would give the economy a boost. I believe Japan's laws changed in regards to stem cell therapies, to give their economy a boost.

It's about damn time.

----------


## Sogeking

> 21st Century Cures act is on the house floor tomorrow for a vote. If they get over 350 votes, then it looks like it will certainly be made law before they year is out. 
> 
> I think this bill could very positively effect the trials for a drug like Setipiprant. It has an excellent safety profile with thousands of patients, has had a phase 3 trial, with little to no adverse events. I am speculating here, but from everything I've read, it seems that a drug with this kind of safety profile, and number of trials under its belt (8), Allergan may just have to prove its efficacy. 
> 
> Although hair loss is not a life-threatening illness, it is a chronic condition, with no current treatment. Finasteride is not a real treatment. It is also stone-age medicine, with regard to hair loss. 
> 
> I cannot say for sure that they would do this. However, given everything I've read in the bill, they want to speed up the process, especially for a drug with the safety of 8 trials, and thousands of patient's data. It's also alway been an oral medication. The only real question at this point is - does it work for hair loss?


 Hey man would appreciate it if you let us know how the vote ends up going. Thanks.

----------


## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> Hey man would appreciate it if you let us know how the vote ends up going. Thanks.


 Sure, I think the vote is actually Friday, though. Will post abt it later

----------


## It's2014ComeOnAlready

21st Century Cures passed the house 344-77. 70 of "no" votes were by Republicans (go figure). 

This is excellent news. They were hoping to get 350 votes which is the overwhelming majority, but this is very close and the White House has expressed support of the bill and willing to work on it.

----------


## Sogeking

> 21st Century Cures passed the house 344-77. 70 of "no" votes were by Republicans (go figure). 
> 
> This is excellent news. They were hoping to get 350 votes which is the overwhelming majority, but this is very close and the White House has expressed support of the bill and willing to work on it.


 Lol Republicans. At Least they are always pro business...

----------


## burtandernie

A little bit of a guess but how much in treatment timelines will this speed anything up? Out of all the possible stuff coming what is the first scheduled thing to arrive and what treatments for MPB might qualify for this speed increase?
To me CB 03 01 feels like another AA I mean there has to mounds of data on how these work by now. Does it really need 3 more years to prove its safe? I dont know out of all the new stuff CB feels like something we need fast as an alternative to propecia to just maintain for the other stuff. It also feels very familiar and safe IMO and throw in the fact its topical this time as a bonus.

----------


## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> A little bit of a guess but how much in treatment timelines will this speed anything up? Out of all the possible stuff coming what is the first scheduled thing to arrive and what treatments for MPB might qualify for this speed increase?
> To me CB 03 01 feels like another AA I mean there has to mounds of data on how these work by now. Does it really need 3 more years to prove its safe? I dont know out of all the new stuff CB feels like something we need fast as an alternative to propecia to just maintain for the other stuff. It also feels very familiar and safe IMO and throw in the fact its topical this time as a bonus.


 Honestly, I think the drugs in trials that will benefit the most are likely bimatoprost and setipiprant. 

Bimatoprost, because it's already on the market, has undergone as much as a phase 2b trial. There's also a provision for drugs that are repurposed. In this case, it would be eyelashes to hair. 

Setipiprant, because it's undergone 8 clinical trials, including a phase 3. It has safety data on thousands of patients. There is much that is already known about this drug through data. The only thing that is missing is efficacy for hair loss. If the plan for the 21st Century Cures Act is to streamline the process, then it would be doing just that for a drug that has safely passed 8 clinical trials, and had a phase 3. Also "cures" hair loss for future generations. 

I'm very optimistic because of how a lot of things are aligning. It might seem like this will never end, but for how badly things have gone, there is finally a GIANT and very well-funded company with well-researched drugs that will be able to solve hair loss for the masses. Simultaneously, there is a bill which plans to streamline, speed up, and  modernize clinical trials.  It just passed the house with 82% of the vote, and will likely be signed into law before the year is out. 

I am speculating to a degree. If all that time, research, and drug development has amounted to two complementing, effective, drugs already in phase 2, and there is a law that will speed everything up...then this will be resolved rather soon.

----------


## burtandernie

Ah okay. I hope it turns out well and things happen quickly too. I wonder if fin will still have a place even with new treatments. None of the new treatments work exactly like finasteride so maybe it will still be used in combination.

----------


## Xoxo

So what is the current state of setipip?
In the thread "Summer cutting edge treatments update: 2015" it says there will be a POC study 2016.
On the other hand, the active component seems to be available already on the market so that people could use it if they knew dosage and vehicle. Or find it out through experimentation. Oral taking also does not need a vehicle. My guess is that it is still pretty expensive right now. Are there already people using it? When might we be able to use it?

----------


## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> So what is the current state of setipip?
> In the thread "Summer cutting edge treatments update: 2015" it says there will be a POC study 2016.
> On the other hand, the active component seems to be available already on the market so that people could use it if they knew dosage and vehicle. Or find it out through experimentation. Oral taking also does not need a vehicle. My guess is that it is still pretty expensive right now. Are there already people using it? When might we be able to use it?


 Well, the case of Setipiprant is very interesting. It has 8 clinical trials completed, including a phase 3 and safety data with thousands of patients. Under the current FDA rules, they'd have to complete a phase 2 poc and a phase 3. However, there is a bill that just passed Congress that has almost universal support, called the "21st Century Cures Act." I'd say there is a 95% chance it gets signed into law. The plan has also always been to sign it into law before the year is out, because 2016 is an election year. 

Under the new law, I strongly believe a drug like this will get consideration for it's vast safety data and the number of trials it has already completed. It may just have to show efficacy.

----------


## mlamber5

> Honestly, I think the drugs in trials that will benefit the most are likely bimatoprost and setipiprant. 
> 
> Bimatoprost, because it's already on the market, has undergone as much as a phase 2b trial. There's also a provision for drugs that are repurposed. In this case, it would be eyelashes to hair. 
> 
> Setipiprant, because it's undergone 8 clinical trials, including a phase 3. It has safety data on thousands of patients. There is much that is already known about this drug through data. The only thing that is missing is efficacy for hair loss. If the plan for the 21st Century Cures Act is to streamline the process, then it would be doing just that for a drug that has safely passed 8 clinical trials, and had a phase 3. Also "cures" hair loss for future generations. 
> 
> I'm very optimistic because of how a lot of things are aligning. It might seem like this will never end, but for how badly things have gone, there is finally a GIANT and very well-funded company with well-researched drugs that will be able to solve hair loss for the masses. Simultaneously, there is a bill which plans to streamline, speed up, and  modernize clinical trials.  It just passed the house with 82% of the vote, and will likely be signed into law before the year is out. 
> 
> I am speculating to a degree. If all that time, research, and drug development has amounted to two complementing, effective, drugs already in phase 2, and there is a law that will speed everything up...then this will be resolved rather soon.


 Well said. Agree on all points. Optimism has never been higher in my mind. I think by 2020 we'll have multiple new effective avenues to attack AGA, vastly superior to anti DHT and minoxidil.

----------


## burtandernie

Its 2015 right now. I hope its not 2020 before anything new shows up that is a long time. I dont live forever unfortunately so time does matter.

----------


## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> Its 2015 right now. I hope its not 2020 before anything new shows up that is a long time. I dont live forever unfortunately so time does matter.


 I agree, and I think we will have at least 1 new, very effective option between now and then. If nothing shows up in 2 years, scrounge up as much cash as you can, fly to Japan, and get replicel done. If it takes 2 round trips and $20,000, then do it. That's exactly what I'm going to do. 

If it takes getting a loan from a bank, do it. There is no sense languishing over this for the next 5 years, or being on fin for that much longer. I've been on fin for the past 2 years, and while I'm grateful that I'm not on the norwood scale, I've hated every minute of being on this drug.

----------


## Dench57

You're not on the norwood scale...? Why are you on Fin?

----------


## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> You're not on the norwood scale...? Why are you on Fin?


 Caught it early. Would otherwise be a norwood 5-6 in a few years if I hadn't.

----------


## JayM

> Caught it early. Would otherwise be a norwood 5-6 in a few years if I hadn't.


 I hope you were touching wood.

----------


## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> I hope you were touching wood.


 What?

----------


## mlamber5

> Its 2015 right now. I hope its not 2020 before anything new shows up that is a long time. I dont live forever unfortunately so time does matter.


 Guess i should've stated my last post differently. I meant that I think there will be something different and more effective than fin and minoxidil before 2020, and by 2020 we'll have multiple different things more effective. As someone who quit fin about 4-5 years ago, I am counting on this lol. I do not regret stopping fin though. I didn't have major sides on it, but i had some minor ones and in general just feel better off of it. My hair has suffered though. As my NW has progressed from NW 1.5 to NW 4 in about 4/5 years, I can tell you that time also matters to me. I'm still in my mid 20's and would like to have something by/before my 30's.

----------


## hellouser

> Guess i should've stated my last post differently. I meant that I think there will be something different and more effective than fin and minoxidil before 2020, and by 2020 we'll have multiple different things more effective. As someone who quit fin about 4-5 years ago, I am counting on this lol. I do not regret stopping fin though. I didn't have major sides on it, but i had some minor ones and in general just feel better off of it. My hair has suffered though. *As my NW has progressed from NW 1.5 to NW 4 in about 4/5 years, I can tell you that time also matters to me. I'm still in my mid 20's and would like to have something by/before my 30's*.


 God damn, that is rough.  :Frown:

----------


## Farkhairloss

Has anyone recieved there seti from the original group buy? I am very keen if there is another buy??

----------


## BottleCap

The first group buy has been shipped.

There is now a second PHG group buy for seti. Anyone who missed out on the first one PM me and I shall redirect you to the organisers. 

$340 for 25g we just need enough people to commit.

----------


## JayM

> What?


 Never heard of that saying? When you say something but it could quickly change you touch wood. So you said you could have been nw5 in a few years if it wasn't for fin. (touch wood). Because that could still happen.

----------


## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> Never heard of that saying? When you say something but it could quickly change you touch wood. So you said you could have been nw5 in a few years if it wasn't for fin. (touch wood). Because that could still happen.


 lol of course I know the expression. Nah, I doubt it will. I've been a great responder to fin. Technically, I haven't "lost" any hair over the past two years I've been on it, it's just slightly thinner in certain areas. That's why I want bim so bad. Instead of taking fin every day, I want to microdose a few times a week, apply bim on the in-between days. Not because I want my hair to be "perfect" but to eliminate all side effects.

----------


## mlamber5

> God damn, that is rough.


 I know! Part of me wants to get back on fin, but I really do think we'll have something by 2020 if not before. That's why im holding out. I know that is logic many on here find insane but that's just me.  From my own personal/family history of prostaglandin issues and early onset aggressive male pattern baldness, I am so hopeful that setipiprant/bimatoprost may just be what we've been waiting for forever.

----------


## BottleCap

Ok, stupidly just realised you can't PM on this forum, go to ************ and PM on there  :Smile:  if your interested in the sepi group buy.

----------


## burtandernie

If this thing went through all these different trials already where are any of the results or even informal observations of what happened with hair? I mean there isnt a single study or anything on what it does in humans for hair yet even with the years of testing for asthma it already had? Pretty odd. Just show some results maybe its not even worth getting excited about.
The potential PGD2 is simply another minor player among others is certainly there in which case its still mainly androgens causing it

----------


## burtandernie

How would no one notice hair growth in these studies if that happened? If it didnt happen in these studies maybe it doesnt work. The results should be known already.

"Setipiprant has previously been studied as a potential allergic inflammation treatment, including a phase 3 study in patients with seasonal allergic rhinitis and a phase 2 study in patients with asthma, the release stated. No serious adverse events were reported and treatment was well tolerated in the studies. Actelion suspended the development of setipiprant due to lack of efficacy seen in the studies, according to the release."

----------


## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> How would no one notice hair growth in these studies if that happened? If it didnt happen in these studies maybe it doesnt work. The results should be known already.
> 
> "Setipiprant has previously been studied as a potential allergic inflammation treatment, including a phase 3 study in patients with seasonal allergic rhinitis and a phase 2 study in patients with asthma, the release stated. No serious adverse events were reported and treatment was well tolerated in the studies. Actelion suspended the development of setipiprant due to lack of efficacy seen in the studies, according to the release."


 Maybe a larger dose is needed. C'mon, are we seriously questioning whether or not this has any possibility of working after kythera picked it up after studying it for 2 years? Then a huge pharma company like Allergan buys Kythera with plans to develop the drug. There is plenty we don't know, but I can say for sure that both the CEO of Kythera and Allergan said they were "very excited" about the drug.

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## joel203

> Maybe a larger dose is needed. C'mon, are we seriously questioning whether or not this has any possibility of working after kythera picked it up after studying it for 2 years? Then a huge pharma company like Allergan buys Kythera with plans to develop the drug. There is plenty we don't know, but I can say for sure that both the CEO of Kythera and Allergan said they were "very excited" about the drug.


 when do you think roughly this will be out or when is the phase 2 results coming out ? anytime before 2020?

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## burtandernie

Yeah I guess im not questioning if it works because it must. I question why we havent seen any results even informal like they saw a bunch of hair regrowth or most guys didnt lose any more hair. Nothing? I guess in my boat with minor gradual loss I am wondering if its worth trying propecia or just waiting for another year or 2 and see if I can use this. I would love to skip the whole hormone altering thing completely

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## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> when do you think roughly this will be out or when is the phase 2 results coming out ? anytime before 2020?


 Yea, for sure. I think under current FDA rules we'd see the drug in ~3 years. However, the 21st Century Cures Act should cut that time in half. I'm 95% sure that bill will become law, it's too widely supported, and would mean the US stays at the top of the field. Other wealthy countries around the world are pouring billions into becoming major players on a global scale.

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## joel203

> Yea, for sure. I think under current FDA rules we'd see the drug in ~3 years. However, the 21st Century Cures Act should cut that time in half. I'm 95% sure that bill will become law, it's too widely supported, and would mean the US stays at the top of the field. Other wealthy countries around the world are pouring billions into becoming major players on a global scale.


 really? I'm currently a NW2 and getting sides with fin (profuse sweating) so for a maintenance drug like seti to come out soon would be awesome so I can get off fin as I really do think I'm messing my hormones up but too scared to come off ( its a lose lose situation). Would the 21st cures act include seti however

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## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> really? I'm currently a NW2 and getting sides with fin (profuse sweating) so for a maintenance drug like seti to come out soon would be awesome so I can get off fin as I really do think I'm messing my hormones up but too scared to come off ( its a lose lose situation). Would the 21st cures act include seti however


 It should include seti because the 21st Century Cures Act is an amendment to the United States Federal Food, Drug, and *Cosmetic* Act.

It's also meant to change the FDA process in general, not just for life-saving drugs.

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## hellouser

> It should include seti because the 21st Century Cures Act is an amendment to the United States Federal Food, Drug, and *Cosmetic* Act.
> 
> It's also meant to change the FDA process in general, not just for life-saving drugs.


 If this takes longer than 6 months to pass, the FDA is an even bigger joke than it is today.

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## It's2014ComeOnAlready

> If this takes longer than 6 months to pass, the FDA is an even bigger joke than it is today.


 Hey man, if after those 8 trials, excellent safety, a phase 3, and allowing biomarkers as evidence enough, then yes, they are absolutely incompetent. 

All they would need to do is use PGD2 biomarker in the scalp and discover whether or not set reduces the levels back to normal. No 6 months of use in a double blind study.

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## swissTemplez

Wow you guys think 150 bucks per gram is cheap?

I bought 12.5g for 170$ at phg. Third party tested too. Let me know if you want to buy a gram for hmm let's say 100$ lol.

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