# Hair Transplants > IAHRS Info Center Discussion >  Body hair suitability.

## max4rmuk

Is it true that the growth cycle of leg hair and stomach hair is two years which is why it is unsuitable for the scalp?

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## 35YrsAfter

> Is it true that the growth cycle of leg hair and stomach hair is two years which is why it is unsuitable for the scalp?


 I got some growth from leg hair.  We have a patient who had his temples rebuilt using leg hair.  He uses Latisse to help with the leg hair length.

Body hair only works with some patients.  I had some leg hair grafted to the top of my head in a study conducted by Dr. Cole several years back.  The hair grew but faded over time.  Chest and stomach hair is better than leg hair.  Beard hair is better than chest hair and scalp hair is better than beard hair.  The yield is good (90%) when ACell is administered when beard hair is grafted.  Beard hair usually has a curl and is often more coarse than scalp hair.  Beard hair extraction sites heal remarkably well.  Beard hair can look great and add considerable density when carefully placed.  It is usually twice the caliber of head hair.  Twice the caliber offers four times the coverage.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
Cole Hair Transplant
Atlanta, GA
Phone 678-566-1011
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.

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## Sean

Body hair does work and if you got a lot of it, it can help give the most conservative heads very young and youthful looking hairlines.  I have seen work from Dr. Umar that supports this fact.

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## didi

> Body hair does work and if you got a lot of it, it can help give the most conservative heads very young and youthful looking hairlines.  I have seen work from Dr. Umar that supports this fact.


 Body hair looks crap unless its mixed with head hair, 

Im not fan of beard hair either, its issue of compatibility with your head hair, it grows but its just different type/calibre , 


Dr Umar is good Dr but he overhypes BHT like its silver bullet for people with limited donor...that's not the case, 
for every successful BHT case there are many unhappy patients who spend tens of 1000s of $$ and look worse off...
seen dr Umars case of 25 000 bht grafts...

Dr Umar and Dr Woods are main actors in overselling BHT...and they know very well that people are not getting whats promised

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## baldozer

> I got some growth from leg hair.  We have a patient who had his temples rebuilt using leg hair.  He uses Latisse to help with the leg hair length.
> 
> Body hair only works with some patients.  I had some leg hair grafted to the top of my head in a study conducted by Dr. Cole several years back.  The hair grew but faded over time.  Chest and stomach hair is better than leg hair.  Beard hair is better than chest hair and scalp hair is better than beard hair.  The yield is good (90%) when ACell is administered when beard hair is grafted.  Beard hair usually has a curl and is often more coarse than scalp hair.  Beard hair extraction sites heal remarkably well.  Beard hair can look great and add considerable density when carefully placed.  It is usually twice the caliber of head hair.  *Twice the caliber offers four times the coverage.*
> 
> 35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
> Cole Hair Transplant
> 1045 Powers Place
> Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
> Phone 678-566-1011
> Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.


 How does twice the caliber offers four times more coverage?

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## 35YrsAfter

> How does twice the caliber offers four times more coverage?


 Here is a segment from one of Dr. Cole's studies:

The final length of the hair growth with the beard hair transplant suggested that most of the grafted beard hairs began their growth at the very beginning, assuming a mean growth rate in the range of 0.4 mm/day, like scalp hair. Most body hair shows growth at the rate of 0.2 mm/day, but this increases to as much as 0.35 mm/day when they are transplantation onto the scalp. It is seen that beard hair grafts grow much faster than most other body hair types. Another advantage of using beard hair for such transplantation is the results are much more cosmetic even when other sources produce similar or even slightly higher rates of yield. The rationale for such an improved coverage lies in the higher diameter of the beard hair shaft, which gives improved volume. *As a general rule, double the diameter of hair shafts, and you quadruple the volume of hair because a cylinder of hair has the volume: V = Õ r2 h.* also body hair can seem to become finer when it is transplanted to the scalp, but beard hair retains its diameter. Additionally, beard hair grows with a typical wave that enhances the coverage and volume. This makes beard hair grafts ideal for a cosmetic benefit and improved coverage of the scalp compared to other types of body hair. However, remember that in people with straight and fine hair, the added curl of the beard hair graft can produce an unwanted and unacceptable contrast to the existing scalp hair.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office

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## didi

However, remember that in *people with straight and fine hair, the added curl of the beard hair graft can produce an unwanted and unacceptable contrast to the existing scalp hair*.

Well, the same can be said about body hair, part  or the reason why it doesn't look natural is that chest hair is always curly and it doesn't suit people with straight hair, and most people have straight hair.

There is Indian doc dr bhatti who puts beard  and bht hair into hairline..

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## baldozer

> However, remember that in *people with straight and fine hair, the added curl of the beard hair graft can produce an unwanted and unacceptable contrast to the existing scalp hair*.
> 
> Well, the same can be said about body hair, part  or the reason why it doesn't look natural is that chest hair is always curly and it doesn't suit people with straight hair, and most people have straight hair.
> 
> There is Indian doc dr bhatti who puts beard  and bht hair into hairline..


 Hair fibers are also pretty random in shape and therefore nowhere like scalp hair, but they do make hair look thicker nevertheless. So I guess, beard hair must be pretty useful in improving thickness even when it doesn't actually match the scalp hair.

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## 35YrsAfter

> Hair fibers are also pretty random in shape and therefore nowhere like scalp hair, but they do make hair look thicker nevertheless. So I guess, beard hair must be pretty useful in improving thickness even when it doesn't actually match the scalp hair.


 A man with fine caliber blonde hair and a coarse black beard would be about the worst candidate for beard hair grafting to the scalp, IMO.  I saw photos of such a person and thought oh crap!  When I actually met him in person after more grafts were placed and grew in, plus some hair styling savvy, he looked good and his hair didn't attract attention.  When using beard hair that doesn't match the scalp hair, it will look natural if it's spread carefully all over the scalp and not placed too densely. 

We had a patient in a while back who had quite a hybrid hair restoration.  Dr. Wong did his strip, Dr. Woods added body hair and Dr. Cole added more body hair.  The patient had dark hair and he looked great in person. 100% natural.  He used to post as "juiceman".  Juiceman was one of those guys that was determined not to be bald and just kept hitting his thin and bald areas with grafts.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office

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## didi

I find it amazing how patient have multiple surgeries(juiceman had 3) but every time they pick different doctor, 

Must be common to be unhappy with your precious doctor and thats why patients always look for someone better?

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## 35YrsAfter

> I find it amazing how patient have multiple surgeries(juiceman had 3) but every time they pick different doctor, 
> 
> Must be common to be unhappy with your precious doctor and thats why patients always look for someone better?


 Juiceman was happy with the work he had done by Dr. Wong and Dr. Woods.  He had work done by Dr. Woods because at the time, he was the only doctor offering FUE body hair.  Dr. Wong did a great job on his strip surgery and he had natural placement and a thin strip scar.  Juiceman told me that he came to Dr. Cole because he had a few scalp reductions and didn't want to run the risk of a widened scar from another strip surgery.  He also wanted to avoid the expense of the long flight to Australia.  He is one of the guys who got great, natural looking results from body hair.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office

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## wylie

> Body hair looks crap unless its mixed with head hair, 
> 
> Im not fan of beard hair either, its issue of compatibility with your head hair, it grows but its just different type/calibre , 
> 
> 
> Dr Umar is good Dr but he overhypes BHT like its silver bullet for people with limited donor...that's not the case, 
> for every successful BHT case there are many unhappy patients who spend tens of 1000s of $$ and look worse off...
> seen dr Umars case of 25 000 bht grafts...
> 
> Dr Umar and Dr Woods are main actors in overselling BHT...and they know very well that people are not getting whats promised


 Do you have any personal experience with body hair? I see uninformed commentary from people who consistently denigrate the use of body hair but have never had any extracted and added to their scalp.

I've had over 5000 beard added and am very pleased with the completely natural looking result. I've posted clear pictures of my hair from multiple angles on another thread.

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## 35YrsAfter

Some guys with a good bit of hair loss want to appear to shave their head for style.  Body hair mixed with beard hair, properly placed, angled etc. will look fine shaved down, creating the suggestion of a frontal hairline.  If I could do the whole thing over, that's what I would do.  Instead, I have scars from a substandard surgery that predates strip.  True, not everyone looks good with their head shaved.  I could pull it off if it weren't for the scars on the back and sides of my head.  I'm looking into micro needling.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office

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## Sean

> Body hair looks crap unless its mixed with head hair, 
> 
> Im not fan of beard hair either, its issue of compatibility with your head hair, it grows but its just different type/calibre , 
> 
> 
> Dr Umar is good Dr but he overhypes BHT like its silver bullet for people with limited donor...that's not the case, 
> for every successful BHT case there are many unhappy patients who spend tens of 1000s of $$ and look worse off...
> seen dr Umars case of 25 000 bht grafts...
> 
> Dr Umar and Dr Woods are main actors in overselling BHT...and they know very well that people are not getting whats promised


 
Of course, body hair can look like crap if you don't have the right body hair suitable for surgery.  Not everyone can be a candidate.  However, docs like Dr.Umar have proven they can successfully tackle the bht transplantation technique more than some others in the field.* He has even created youthful hairlines in the most conservative norwood cases utilizing mixture of hair types.  I think having a youthful clean cut look outweighs having a heavily conservative hairline.  Yes, it can cost thousands or be done at a discount, it is a valuable asset to a lot of folks.

I really don't think the doc oversells it, but rather use it as a possible option for those that need it to achieve their desired result.

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## 35YrsAfter

> However, docs like Dr.Umar have proven they can successfully tackle the bht transplantation technique more than some others in the field.* He has even created youthful hairlines in the most conservative norwood cases utilizing mixture of hair types.  I think having a youthful clean cut look outweighs having a heavily conservative hairline.  Yes, it can cost thousands or be done at a discount, it is a valuable asset to a lot of folks.
> 
> I really don't think the doc oversells it, but rather use it as a possible option for those that need it to achieve their desired result.


 I cannot overstress the importance of an undetectable, natural appearing result.  Working at Dr. Cole's office I see a lot of work done by other hair restoration physicians.  Some of the work is excellent while other work in my opinion is absolutely horrifying and disgusting.  Even in 2013.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office

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## wylie

Dr. Umar utilizes scalp hair for his hairlines, if he cannot get enough for the hairline, he will turn to nape hair, even leg hair. He used scalp hair for me, and could get close to 2000 grafts when a strip surgeon could get nothing. My first surgery with Dr. Umar was a complete hairline rebuild. The result blew me away. The incredible feeling i got  looking at that hairline in the mirror after it grew in lasted for well over a year, even three and a half years later I still am so satisfied with it. I went on to 4 total surgeries using almost all beard, until today, and just finished the fifth one an hour ago. For 500 grafts, many came from the outside of the jawbone. You can only snatch around 5000 below the jawline, give or take a couple hundred.

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## didi

> Dr. Umar utilizes scalp hair for his hairlines, if he cannot get enough for the hairline, he will turn to nape hair, even leg hair. He used scalp hair for me, and could get close to 2000 grafts when a strip surgeon could get nothing. My first surgery with Dr. Umar was a complete hairline rebuild. The result blew me away. The incredible feeling i got  looking at that hairline in the mirror after it grew in lasted for well over a year, even three and a half years later I still am so satisfied with it. I went on to 4 total surgeries using almost all beard, until today, and just finished the fifth one an hour ago. For 500 grafts, many came from the outside of the jawbone. You can only snatch around 5000 below the jawline, give or take a couple hundred.


 Nape hair is not permanent, at least in my case
10 years ago I had  a lot of nape hair, not anymore


some Drs use beard for hairline and some use body hair without mixing it with head hair...should be criminal offence

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## baldozer

> Dr. Umar utilizes scalp hair for his hairlines, if he cannot get enough for the hairline, he will turn to nape hair, even leg hair. He used scalp hair for me, and could get close to 2000 grafts when a strip surgeon could get nothing. My first surgery with Dr. Umar was a complete hairline rebuild. The result blew me away. The incredible feeling i got  looking at that hairline in the mirror after it grew in lasted for well over a year, even three and a half years later I still am so satisfied with it. I went on to 4 total surgeries using almost all beard, until today, and just finished the fifth one an hour ago. For 500 grafts, many came from the outside of the jawbone. You can only snatch around 5000 below the jawline, give or take a couple hundred.


 Can you show your pictures? And how much the procedure cost?

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## wylie

> Can you show your pictures? And how much the procedure cost?


 Here are some pictures of what my hair looked like yesterday:


http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthr...t=12483&page=8

I'll take some pics tomorrow when I get home, today I am chilling in beautiful Redondo Beach, and for once I had a relatively small session, and my neck looks quite normal after 500 grafts, usually I was getting 1500 or so extracted and looked like I got hit with buckshot (although healing is remarkably fast, and you look normal in 4 or 5 days, minus some redness)

BTW, all 500 were placed on the part side, starting where the top meets the side and then extending back towards the crown. My bald spot has just gotten considerably smaller.

The cost? Dr. Umar charges $7.00 a graft.

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## wylie

> Nape hair is not permanent, at least in my case
> 10 years ago I had  a lot of nape hair, not anymore
> 
> 
> some Drs use beard for hairline and some use body hair without mixing it with head hair...should be criminal offence


 Nape hair is not your first choice, but admittedly some people, like myself, were out of options. People like myself will gladly take that gamble, and my remaining nape hair is going strong.

When choosing any doctor who utilizes non scalp sources, experience counts. The consumer should choose someone who knows what they're doing. Dr. Umar is not the first doctor I chose to start my repair, so I still was screwing up before I finally got things right. 

I see beard hair like I see SMP, it opens up a whole new market for posers and charlatans and makes potential repairs both more effective than before, yet also more hazardous that things can go very wrong.

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## northeastguy

Wylie keep us updated and it's nice to see your keeping up with your plan... Hopefully to pay off soon. 
How does the donor area where the beard grafts were taken from look?

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## wylie

The area under the chin and the neck show zero signs of any beard being extracted, this seems to be the No. 1 concern is what does the extraction sites look like? Well, all I can say is the fairer your complexion, the less chance you have of any beard extraction sites being visible.  If you are white I don't think you will ever have anything to worry about, can't speak to those of other races.

I had 500 more extracted Sept. 9th and placed along the part line up top, so that will fill in more behind the front half, which is largely complete. 

If you ever research SMP for scar repair and find out who is doing a good job and can be trusted in this industry, be sure to share it with the rest of us. I would like to try this on my numerous strip scars in back. 700 beard grafts helped but it needs more than that, I think SMP can work if done right.

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## northeastguy

> The area under the chin and the neck show zero signs of any beard being extracted, this seems to be the No. 1 concern is what does the extraction sites look like? Well, all I can say is the fairer your complexion, the less chance you have of any beard extraction sites being visible.  If you are white I don't think you will ever have anything to worry about, can't speak to those of other races.
> 
> I had 500 more extracted Sept. 9th and placed along the part line up top, so that will fill in more behind the front half, which is largely complete. 
> 
> If you ever research SMP for scar repair and find out who is doing a good job and can be trusted in this industry, be sure to share it with the rest of us. I would like to try this on my numerous strip scars in back. 700 beard grafts helped but it needs more than that, I think SMP can work if done right.


 Thanks wylie.... this helps. I am doing a test patch next month. if all goes well, i'll do a larger session in the winter. 

Would you be able to do another pass of FUE into the scars? I do research SMP all the time and currently the only clinic I would trust would be beauty medical in Milan. Plus its temporary. my goal however is to not even need SMP once i'm done. Time will tell.

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## wylie

Yea, I could do another pass of FUE, but I think the most effective treatment is a combination of both. I would like to try SMP but don't want to spend more money on it than I would FUE. Flying to Italy solely for this is out of the question, and every U.S. clinic specializing in this seems shady and does not pass the smell test. Rassman and I believe his assistant in LA are doing this and I've read mixed reviews, and Shapiro in MN. is just getting started, although I don't know if he is even the one doing it. I don't feel like being a guinea pig for someone to learn on, thanks but no thanks. I guess it will be a few years until someone competent emerges.

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## whatsgoingon

I read that body hair once transplanted normally goes away after some time. Is that just general or a certain type. I also read that leg hair isn't that suitable, like the 2nd to last hair you'd want to get. Is that just in general since most male have radically different hair from head to legs? 

Like for instance, I have fairly thick leg hair. It looks like some of the hair transplants from NW7 to NW1 diffuse you'd see. I'd easily see a yield of 20,000-30,000 hairs from both legs. So please help me understand why body hair/leg hair is seemingly considered fringe. (not many offer it, and lots of people scoff at it)

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## 35YrsAfter

> I read that body hair once transplanted normally goes away after some time. Is that just general or a certain type. I also read that leg hair isn't that suitable, like the 2nd to last hair you'd want to get. Is that just in general since most male have radically different hair from head to legs? 
> 
> Like for instance, I have fairly thick leg hair. It looks like some of the hair transplants from NW7 to NW1 diffuse you'd see. I'd easily see a yield of 20,000-30,000 hairs from both legs. So please help me understand why body hair/leg hair is seemingly considered fringe. (not many offer it, and lots of people scoff at it)


 Leg hair sometimes grows on the scalp and when it does grow, it commonly loses caliber over a few years time.  That was the case with me.  I can still see where it was placed but there is no longer any cosmetic benefit.  This is the result of a study conducted by Dr. Cole several years ago.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
Cole Hair Transplant Atlanta
Phone 678-566-1011

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## whatsgoingon

do you know why it lost thickness?

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## 35YrsAfter

> do you know why it lost thickness?


 As far as I know, there are theories why certain body hair loses caliber when transplanted to the scalp, but there isn't anything solid everyone agrees on.  Follicle regeneration is moving forward slowly but another consideration is one of developing a method of modifying body hair so that it essentially "transforms" into hair that has characteristics closely resembling scalp hair.  This would solve a lot of men's donor supply issues.

Today, as mentioned before, next to scalp hair, beard hair is best.  Next to beard hair is chest hair and stomach hair.  At this time these alternative hair sources work best for scar repair although beard hair is excellent for adding density to the crown.  Dr. Cole generally avoids using beard hair and other body hair when there is adequate scalp donor hair available.

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## topcat

Below I have posted my leg hair over approximately an 8 year period but could be closer to 10 dont remember the exact date and I dont have the original pictures handy at the moment. The leg hair in my case has thinned drastically while the chest hair is as strong or stronger than ever. The issue with chest hair in my opinion is that the procedure has to be really small as I have seen way too much extensive scarring from large sessions..very scary. I think leg hair is a complete waste of time and money and is not in the best interest of the patient in most cases.

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## John P. Cole, MD

I agree, Topcat.  Leg hair is often lost with maturity in many individuals.  It is easy to harvest.  It leaves no real evidence that it was harvested even with a 1.0 mm punch.  the problem is, that it can fall out over time.  That's a major concern.  Chest hair is more enduring, but again, it does not always grow as well as we would like.  some of the people with the thickest patch of chest hair had poor growth.  I have no idea why.

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## whatsgoingon

so beard hair/chest hair do not lose their thickness over time for the majority of people?

and regarding the leg hair pic posted, my leg hair seems to be close to double the thickness. So I dunno, leg hair would cosmetically be good I suppose. But only after the wait of time.

Just a quick question, how old are you around the time of the faded hairy legs?

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## topcat

My first picture of leg hair is around 40-42 and the second picture is very recent at 50

In my opinion just from observation I would say most men tend to lose leg hair as they age.

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## John P. Cole, MD

I think we all want a success story so we keep looking for another doctor when the math does not work out.  In other words, if you have maximal hair loss and minimal donor area, you keep looking.  Then other times, you get bad results or unnatural results to you keep looking.  This is more common.  Good docs can put all the lipstick they can on a pig, but sometimes it's still a pig. Then again, really good docs can change a pig into a princess.  Other docs can take a beauty queen and make her a pig.  Still others can promise you the moon, yet make something worse than a pig.  The difference is up to you to figure out.  You have to figure out the pig makers and the pig savers and butchers, and the liars.  

I'm very disappointed by what I've heard about SMP in Italy.  Don't waste your time.  I'm not saying SMP is not worth your time.  The results just seem to be variable.  Also, some of the docs that went o Milan to learn SMP were highly disappointed.  Depth seems to be key.  Docs say the you often have to repeat the process to get the optimal result.  In Milan, they have kept docs waiting for days only to see nothing.  Be careful should  you go to Milan.

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## topcat

It becomes very hard sometimes to just sit by and read some repair patients story where he is completely scarred up and now believes he is making the right choice for repair because he missed some history or failed to speak to the right people. I mean it's really very hard for me personally to stomach. But sometimes all one can do is sit by while they are mislead by a few nefarious characters only to be attacked by that same group when it all goes wrong after maximum funds have been extracted from the patient and he has fully recovered from his drug induced stupor.

Of course most in the industry know who some of these operatives are but what most prospective patients do not understand is that it is not as simple as someone just being able to state it beforehand. They need to figure it out on their own most of the time and if they dont it becomes their problem to deal with.

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