# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  Aderans hopefully soon

## FearTheLoss

I read in an article that Aderans was already applying for phase III trials last October, which could mean they would be on schedule to reach the market in 2014..

This also means they definitely have something that they think really works

----------


## Desmond84

LOL, I can't believe Iron_Man finally contributed in a positive manner on this forum! 

They should announce it by June hopefully. If so, Phase 3 will take 18 months + extra 10 months for FDA Approval. 

So hopefully will have Ji Gami by Q4 2015  :Smile: 

Uh man can;t wait till I dump this damn finasteride!

----------


## krewel

> LOL, I can't believe Iron_Man finally contributed in a positive manner on this forum! 
> 
> They should announce it by June hopefully. If so, Phase 3 will take 18 months + extra 10 months for FDA Approval. 
> 
> So hopefully will have Ji Gami by Q4 2015 
> 
> Uh man can;t wait till I dump this damn finasteride!


 Could even take less, I have seen several Phase III studies which lasted 6 months. I'm also excited.

----------


## Desmond84

Their timeline indicated it will be at least 12 months though. But who knows  :Smile: 

6 months would be a gift from God... LOL

----------


## FearTheLoss

> LOL, I can't believe Iron_Man finally contributed in a positive manner on this forum! 
> 
> They should announce it by June hopefully. If so, Phase 3 will take 18 months + extra 10 months for FDA Approval. 
> 
> So hopefully will have Ji Gami by Q4 2015 
> 
> Uh man can;t wait till I dump this damn finasteride!


 I agree! and yes I also cannot wait to dump finasteride! 

This really excites me coming from aderans because they are a big company with a lot of financial backing, so for them to be in a phase III trail to release something it has to be something that is definitely better than everything on the market so far.

----------


## Desmond84

Uh for sure  :Smile:  their target was to at least achieve what Propecia could do BUT on a permanent basis.

Once we hear the announcement, we should make a "*celebration thread*" and keep it going till 2015!

Aderans going to Phase 3 will be the first time a company has actively managed to halt hair loss without permanently altering male hormones!

----------


## john2399

Not trying to be negative but didnt aderans have shitty images with little regrowth. Are we just going hoping that it will stop hairloss for good ?

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Not trying to be negative but didnt aderans have shitty images with little regrowth. Are we just going hoping that it will stop hairloss for good ?


 Yes they did in early phase II trials, but we haven't seen photos since. They obviously have something really good though because they wouldn't move to phase III without something really good, because of the amount of money and backing they have. 

If it is a permanent halt to hairloss that is a huge breakthrough. It would compliment the hair transplant industry very well and could be a huge benefit when used with something like histogen.

----------


## 534623

> Uh for sure  their target was to at least achieve what Propecia could do BUT on a permanent basis.


 …and their next big target will be to recommend you to move on with it, to hold somewhat longer their few sparse cell-based created zombies in the transition zones between game-over hairs and permanent hairs, in an effort to cork Jahoda's discovered 'leakage' somewhat.

Anyway, my friend Desmond, nice to see you back in the good cop and bad cop game.  :Smile:

----------


## john2399

we still need a link to confirm this phase 3 trial...can't believe anyone on this board.

----------


## garethbale

> You know what's really surprising to me! The fact that they know we know! But they refuse to release an official statement explaining the situation...Makes you wonder if all the horror stories about Bosley are true?


 Well according to someone on here who contacted one of their staff, they are not discontinuing their Ji Gami work. Wouldn't be surprised if management were keeping that employee in the dark as well though!

----------


## Vox

> There's heaps of anecdotal reports...I also came across this site last week when I was looking for subsidiary's of Aderans:
> 
> http://www.bosleymedicalviolations.com/
> 
> Scared me for sure! Patient stories sound horrible!


 Wow, frightening stuff!  :EEK!:  I had no idea about it.

----------


## Pentarou

> Ah, now we know where the liquidation money will go.


 I'm seriously concerned that this may be 'it' for Big Pharma attempts at funding hair regeneration treatments, at least for a very long time.  :Frown:

----------


## Thinning87

> I'm seriously concerned that this may be 'it' for Big Pharma attempts at funding hair regeneration treatments, at least for a very long time.


 Dude reading your comments makes me vomit. They're so depressing, you're such a woman

----------


## bibz

Damn just shut your mouth with all these fvcking comments, there is no official announcment of the end of Ji Gami, so until that just stop speculate like girls

----------


## UK_

> You know what's really surprising to me! The fact that they know we know! But they refuse to release an official statement explaining the situation...Makes you wonder if all the horror stories about Bosley are true?


 Or the past 'horror stories' of forum members being totally wrong regarding speculative statements.

----------


## FearTheLoss

well Spencer received a call from ARI during the last show, so it would be nice if he could fill us in on what they said when he called them back

----------


## PayDay

> well Spencer received a call from ARI during the last show, so it would be nice if he could fill us in on what they said when he called them back


 You guys are so funny and have such a strange sense of entitlement. First someone says that Spencer received a call from Dr. Washenick. Now you're claiming that is was actually from ARI.  :Smile:   I don't remember hearing him say that, but I will admit that I was working when I was listening to the live show. Either way, if this is true, how do you know it wasn't just a social call, or maybe to talk about a future interview or whatever? Right know it's just a rumor anyway and if true probably completely  taken out of context like so many things are on the forum.

I am sure Kobren will fill us in on anything that is happening when he is able to. Give the guy a break already. He doesn't control what these companies say or do.

----------


## UK_

Tell me about it, so they're selling a lot of their equipment, all of a sudden its doomsday.

----------


## Thinning87

I agree that their way of freaking out every two weeks is annoying but it's hard to see the selling of all equipment as a positive sign...

I guess we'll have to watch tomorrow's show to find out more  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## hellouser

> Hmmm really! which study did you find that from I_M?
> 
> Here's the one I was reading:
> _"In our current study, a bioengineered hair follicle, which was ectopically regenerated and matured with the hair shaft, was transplanted into normal skin using the FUT method. The bioengineered hair follicle autonomously rearranged and connected to the recipient cutaneous tissues, such as the skin epithelium, nerve fibers, and the arrector pili muscle. The bioengineered hair follicles also restored inherent hair physiological functions, such as eruption and growth of the hair shafts from the skin surface, maintenance of the proper hair cycles as a result of reproduction of follicular stem cell niche, and piloerection. Our results indicated that the transplantation of the bioengineered hair follicles can be developed into a viable alternative to conventional FUT therapy for future hair regenerative therapies."_
> 
> The pictures they posted with this study says the hair *naturally* erupted after 22 days!


 Original article on that:

http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/1205...p00424.html?WT..

Question:

Is the arrector pili muscle required for hair growth? All it does (so far as we know) is contract when we're cold to keep the body warm which causes goosebumps. There's been some talk that the disconnect between the APM and the follicle means irreversible hair loss. But so what? Would it not reconnect itself if the follicle were to return to its normal large size? For instance, hair transplants prove that its capable of connecting itself to the APM, unless the grafts already contain the APM?

Is it any surprise that the connection between the two is lost since the follicle shrinks over time?

----------


## hgs1989

> Original article on that:
> 
> http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/1205...p00424.html?WT..
> 
> Question:
> 
> Is the arrector pili muscle required for hair growth? All it does (so far as we know) is contract when we're cold to keep the body warm which causes goosebumps. There's been some talk that the disconnect between the APM and the follicle means irreversible hair loss. But so what? Would it not reconnect itself if the follicle were to return to its normal large size? For instance, hair transplants prove that its capable of connecting itself to the APM, unless the grafts already contain the APM?
> 
> Is it any surprise that the connection between the two is lost since the follicle shrinks over time?


 I actually read about this online after seeing it. it is true. if the follicle loses contact with this muscle the miniaturized hair will not grow. the question is  how miniaturized the hair should be to lose contact with this muscle? Man, reading about this makes me really pessimist about any treatment.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> Original article on that:
> 
> http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/1205...p00424.html?WT..
> 
> Question:
> 
> Is the arrector pili muscle required for hair growth? All it does (so far as we know) is contract when we're cold to keep the body warm which causes goosebumps. There's been some talk that the disconnect between the APM and the follicle means irreversible hair loss. But so what? Would it not reconnect itself if the follicle were to return to its normal large size? For instance, hair transplants prove that its capable of connecting itself to the APM, unless the grafts already contain the APM?
> 
> Is it any surprise that the connection between the two is lost since the follicle shrinks over time?


 An article on the US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health has a brief article related to transplanted hair and the APM.  Hopefully better future treatments that keep miniaturization under control is all that will be necessary to maintain the APM connection and support decent hair growth.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## hellouser

> I actually read about this online after seeing it. it is true. if the follicle loses contact with this muscle the miniaturized hair will not grow. the question is  how miniaturized the hair should be to lose contact with this muscle? Man, reading about this makes me really pessimist about any treatment.


 I just read a recent paper published by Rodney Sinclair, he presented this at the 2014 World Hair Congress:

http://www.ijtrichology.com/article....last=Torkamani




> The APM is considered one of the most important appendageal structures in hair transplant studies. Sato et al. studied single follicular unit transplants in androgenic alopecia (AGA) patients. They demonstrated that restoration of the APM and adjacent nervous system induces the regeneration of the neurofollicular and neuromuscular junctions in the follicle bulge. [8],[48]


 It doesn't really say if the APM is responsible for growth though... in fact i cant find anything in regards to that.

----------


## hgs1989

> I just read a recent paper published by Rodney Sinclair, he presented this at the 2014 World Hair Congress:
> 
> http://www.ijtrichology.com/article....last=Torkamani
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't really say if the APM is responsible for growth though... in fact i cant find anything in regards to that.


 but there seams to be a connection between irreversible miniaturization and this muscle. we know that once a level of miniaturization is achieved the hair loss is irreversible. lets hope the the connection of APM is a result not the cause of this irreversible loss and once stem cells are awakened everything will return to normal. giving it a second thought, it seems that it is the result. how could they grew human follicle out side of the scalp when the follicles are not attached to such muscle ? who knows. on a different subject, is this japanese team on par with jahoda , lauster, and christiano?

----------


## hellouser

> but there seams to be a connection between irreversible miniaturization and this muscle. we know that once a level of miniaturization is achieved the hair loss is irreversible.


 That's not entirely true. It's only true relative to the minoxidil and finasteride as treatments for it. We've don't know if its reversible or not based on other known/unknown potential treatments either on their own or in combination (inhibitors of DKK1, PGD2, COX2, etc).




> lets hope the the connection of APM is a result not the cause of this irreversible loss and once stem cells are awakened everything will return to normal. giving it a second thought, it seems that it is the result. how could they grew human follicle out side of the scalp when the follicles are not attached to such muscle ? who knows.


 My thoughts too, it doesn't seem like the disconnect is the cause of hair loss, but rather a cascade of events. Follicle miniaturization is probably the cause of it, the APM attaches to the bulge... but if the follicle miniaturizes, wouldnt the bulge too and thus less contact until its lost?




> on a different subject, is this japanese team on par with jahoda , lauster, and christiano


 Yes, Tsuji labs are quite far in their work..... but as usual, you'll always hear '10 years' thrown around (alluding to them knowing what path to take and how long it will take which kind of suggests they know the solution, but would rather take 10 years).

----------


## Swooping

> but there seams to be a connection between irreversible miniaturization and this muscle. we know that once a level of miniaturization is achieved the hair loss is irreversible. lets hope the the connection of APM is a result not the cause of this irreversible loss and once stem cells are awakened everything will return to normal. giving it a second thought, it seems that it is the result. how could they grew human follicle out side of the scalp when the follicles are not attached to such muscle ? who knows. on a different subject, is this japanese team on par with jahoda , lauster, and christiano?


 There isn't proof that AGA is irreversible. Generally with the treatments we have now, yes it is irreversible in many cases. However in literature there have been extraordinary cases of regrowth under certain medications, take for example benoxaprofen where reversal has been shown in patients who had been bald for 25+ years. Estrogen therapy is known to reverse AGA to a high extent too in some cases. So I would say it is definitely reversible we just don't have a clue how to do it.

----------


## beetee

I must be missing something. Was there something in this Nature article that indicated this method couldn't be an effective treatment?

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> There isn't proof that AGA is irreversible. Generally with the treatments we have now, yes it is irreversible in many cases. However in literature there have been extraordinary cases of regrowth under certain medications, take for example benoxaprofen where reversal has been shown in patients who had been bald for 25+ years. Estrogen therapy is known to reverse AGA to a high extent too in some cases. So I would say it is definitely reversible we just don't have a clue how to do it.


 Benoxaprofen is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug, that was marketed under the brand name Oraflex in the U S and as Opren in Europe by Eli Lilly and Company. Lilly suspended sales of Oraflex in 1982 after reports from the British government and the U.S. FDA of adverse effects and deaths linked to the drug.

After the suspension of sales in 1982 the toxic effects which benoxaprofen might have on humans were looked into more closely. The fairly planar compound of benoxaprofen seems to be hepa- and phototoxic in the human body.

With the risk of death, even a small risk, I doubt there will be many research volunteers in an attempt to learn how this drug reverses Male Pattern baldness (in some cases).  It's an anti-inflammatory.  Corticosteroids are as well and often have a listed side effect of excessive hair growth.  But reversing MPB?  This drug must have another action that would be of great value to uncover.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## hellouser

> With the risk of death, even a small risk, I doubt there will be many research volunteers in an attempt to learn how this drug reverses Male Pattern baldness (in some cases).  It's an anti-inflammatory.  Corticosteroids are as well and often have a listed side effect of excessive hair growth.  But reversing MPB?  This drug must have another action that would be of great value to uncover.


 We could use social parasites like George Bush or Bill O'Reilly as guinea pigs. It'd be the first time they'd contribute something worthwhile to society.

----------


## Swooping

> Benoxaprofen is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug, that was marketed under the brand name Oraflex in the U S and as Opren in Europe by Eli Lilly and Company. Lilly suspended sales of Oraflex in 1982 after reports from the British government and the U.S. FDA of adverse effects and deaths linked to the drug.
> 
> After the suspension of sales in 1982 the toxic effects which benoxaprofen might have on humans were looked into more closely. The fairly planar compound of benoxaprofen seems to be hepa- and phototoxic in the human body.
> 
> With the risk of death, even a small risk, I doubt there will be many research volunteers in an attempt to learn how this drug reverses Male Pattern baldness (in some cases).  It's an anti-inflammatory.  Corticosteroids are as well and often have a listed side effect of excessive hair growth.  But reversing MPB?  This drug must have another action that would be of great value to uncover.
> 
> 35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
> The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
> Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck


 Yes the drug is dangerous, I just gave this as a example that MPB is very well reversible. We just don't have a clue how to do it. Here is the paper; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...498062/?page=1. Also as you see it is very miraculous regrowth that developed under specific conditions. Such cases are extremely rare, but they do show that AGA very well is reversible. Ahh well one day..

----------


## hgs1989

> Yes the drug is dangerous, I just gave this as a example that MPB is very well reversible. We just don't have a clue how to do it. Here is the paper; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...498062/?page=1. Also as you see it is very miraculous regrowth that developed under specific conditions. Such cases are extremely rare, but they do show that AGA very well is reversible. Ahh well one day..


  looks like a strong anti inflammatory might do it. scientist should really look into it more. maybe this benoxaprofen could have worked in a topical form. minoxidil had the same effect orally then they looked into it topically. interestingly benoxaprofen treats arthritis  and the drug ;at yale they used on the guy that has grown all his hair (alopecia areata opatient); is an arthritis drug. in the case of benoxaprofen(also arthritis drug) it reversed MPB. WOW this looks promising really. someone should look into this more.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> Yes the drug is dangerous, I just gave this as a example that MPB is very well reversible.


 I appreciate you posting that.  The fact that MPB can be reversible is very encouraging.

I think it would be worthwhile to study hypertrichosis (AKA Ambras syndrome) which is basically; way above normal hair growth all over the body..  *Here is a video of Supatra*.

Bless her heart.  She is a celebrity at school and she likes the way she looks.  I think most people would rather be overly hairy than bald.

Cotsarelis or another researcher should study Supatra and look into the reasons Benoxaprofen can reverse MPB in some instances.  This research could make something jump out, connecting the dots with existing research that could be key to a very effective treatment of androgenic alopecia. 

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## hellouser

> Cotsarelis or another researcher should study Supatra and look into the reasons Benoxaprofen can reverse MPB in some instances.  This research could make something jump out, connecting the dots with existing research that could be key to a very effective treatment of androgenic alopecia.


 What? Why? He'd be wasting his time trying to figure out stuff he's clueless about and then expect him to run clinical trials for whatever the process would require for another 10 years.

Screw that.

----------


## Swooping

> I appreciate you posting that.  The fact that MPB can be reversible is very encouraging.
> 
> I think it would be worthwhile to study hypertrichosis (AKA Ambras syndrome) which is basically; way above normal hair growth all over the body.Attachment 34443.  *Here is a video of Supatra*.
> 
> Bless her heart.  She is a celebrity at school and she likes the way she looks.  I think most people would rather be overly hairy than bald.
> 
> Cotsarelis or another researcher should study Supatra and look into the reasons Benoxaprofen can reverse MPB in some instances.  This research could make something jump out, connecting the dots with existing research that could be key to a very effective treatment of androgenic alopecia. 
> 
> 35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
> ...


 It's interesting that you note this. I completely agree with you on this. These pathways are extremely interesting too, they hold pretty much the blue-print for everything. A.M christiano holds this scientific approach somewhat through gene analysis and she is making huge steps, too bad she is investigating other hairloss diseases LOL. 

Example benoxaproven;



Comes down to AR> COX2 > PGD2 pathway. It is still very a-specific. But they should start connecting the goddamn dots to get a better understanding. As einstein said everything should be as simple, but not simpler.

----------


## hellouser

> It's interesting that you note this. I completely agree with you on this. These pathways are extremely interesting too, they hold pretty much the blue-print for everything. A.M christiano holds this scientific approach somewhat through gene analysis and she is making huge steps, too bad she is investigating other hairloss diseases LOL. 
> 
> Example benoxaproven;
> 
> 
> 
> Comes down to AR> COX2 > PGD2 pathway. It is still very a-specific. But they should start connecting the goddamn dots to get a better understanding. As einstein said everything should be as simple, but not simpler.


 Cotsarelis mentions Arachidonic Acid in the 2014 Hair Congress presentation here:

http://youtu.be/TN5H01HGaVI?t=20m6s

Just hit play, I've already queued the relevant part for you.

----------


## Swooping

> Cotsarelis mentions Arachidonic Acid in the 2014 Hair Congress presentation here:
> 
> http://youtu.be/TN5H01HGaVI?t=20m6s
> 
> Just hit play, I've already queued the relevant part for you.


 Thanks I did not know it all starts with arachidonic acid, interesting. I just looked up diagram of parsh etc and it's incorporated too, pretty funny. Check left side bottom arachonic acid > lipoxygenase enzyme. Damn i'm so curious what the future will bring.

----------


## hellouser

> Damn i'm so curious what the future will bring.


 Hair.

----------


## cichlidfort

> Original article on that:
> 
> http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/1205...p00424.html?WT..
> 
> Question:
> 
> Is the arrector pili muscle required for hair growth? All it does (so far as we know) is contract when we're cold to keep the body warm which causes goosebumps. There's been some talk that the disconnect between the APM and the follicle means irreversible hair loss. But so what? Would it not reconnect itself if the follicle were to return to its normal large size? For instance, hair transplants prove that its capable of connecting itself to the APM, unless the grafts already contain the APM?
> 
> Is it any surprise that the connection between the two is lost since the follicle shrinks over time?


  I doubt the muscle is required for growth. Hair grows all over our body, including fat. I think that's paranoia HELL lol

----------


## hellouser

> I doubt the muscle is required for growth. Hair grows all over our body, including fat. I think that's paranoia HELL lol


 Not all hair is the same though.

----------

