# Men's Hair Loss > Introduce Yourself & Share Your Story >  Educated Questions from a Newbie *pics*

## manimgoindowndown

Hi guys 23 and just researching and researching finasteride and just want to end my paranoia and ask a few questions before I begin. I started losing my hair at a very stressful job (DoD job- requires polygraph) less than two years ago...a co worker noticed my scalp... I didn't pay attention to all the hair in my bed and thought "it would go back you're just stressed." Nope.

1. I know there is a study of WOMEN where it showed they had just as much as a good affect with 2.5mg every three days vs 1mg every day of finasteride...are there any studies for men like this? How about people's experiences and recommednations? I have rarely read it going past 1.25mg on this board without noticeable side effects

Also are the any risks (agressive prostate cancer) associated with the higher dosing? At what dosage are these risks statistically significant?

2. I'm still confused about how DHT affects hormones (T and estrogen and E2) levels in the body and what role it plays in sex drive/CNS? Is there any long term evidence about this? I am 23 and sure as hell don't want to be impotent before marriage!

3. I started minoxidil for three months and stopped it abruptly, right after a shedding phase because I wasn't ready for a lifelong committment...if I use minoxidil completely this time would I keep more hair (I'm pretty sure the answer is NO)

4. What is the evidence that side effects are long lasting once your off...also how long to return to normal... I heard 8 weeks?

5. I know of only one study that looks at whether your DHT and hormone levels return to normal after discontinuing finasteride (compared to your peers vs, say, your original values years before)...but it is only a yearlong... are there any other studies out there that study this? Personal experiences?


6. Are there any tests out there (and what are there cost-covered by insurance typically?) to run for hormonal changes before I start on fin...to crosscheck if I ever stop.

7. Why do so many people recommend to start finasteride immediately. I mean if you're body's DHT production is going to cut down to barely any, wouldn't there sort of be a natural equilibrium that that reduced sweetspot of DHT  would allow only a certain amount of hair to be on your scalp long term?

Since I bodybuild for those who are looking for bodybuilding studies...I found two good ones

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/288/1/E222.full


4/26 photo is of a two week grow
5/1 photo is of a three week grow.
Although it can get thicker I haven't kept it longer because again although the sides grow out fine the top doesn't have much hair (scalp shine)

Born with two bald spots...dad and his brothers are all bald. 
The weird thing I notice about my hair is unlike the Norwood chart that shows sort of balding from the bald spot/crown my balding is (none on that back of my head, barely any on the temple..althoughits gotten worse and ALL on the top of my head EXCLUDING the bald spot/crown)

Worse comes to worse... I look good bald, can appreciate it but hey long dark eyes tan tall and my hair accentuates it so its a plus

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## Pate

1. Not sure. But finasteride's half life in the body is only 4 to 6 hours. 2.5mg of finasteride every 3 days seems like a bad idea because your DHT levels would just see-saw constantly. You want to aim for a steady-state. This may not be such an issue for women because they don't produce as much DHT and it doesn't have such an effect on their bodies. If you don't want to take a pill every day you would need something like dutasteride which has a much longer half-life. Guys on dut often take a dose once a week.

2. There are several papers doing the rounds of forums like this about the role of DHT in sex drive and other body processes. If you're interested you should probably track them down and read them.

3. Minox should still work, but maybe not as well as it would have worked last time. At any rate minox doesn't generally work for very long unless it's supported by fin. Couple of years at most.

4. The evidence of permanent damage is not yet clear. There are reports of it but a causal link has not been established that is generally accepted by the scientific community. There does seem to be something strange going on though. My suspicion is that for a certain sub-set of men, the effects are permanent. Question is, how big is that sub-set? Nobody knows yet because no clinical trial has yet found evidence of it.

5. Some anti-fin campaigners argue there is permanent damage caused by fin. As far as I understand it though, they are not usually arguing that hormone levels don't return to normal. They are arguing that fin damages receptors in the brain and other areas. So your hormone levels might return to normal but your body can't respond to them fully. You are probably best off asking some anti-fin people, they are quick to put their argument forward. Personally I'm on the fence.

6. You can easily get your hormone levels tested, it's a simple blood test. There is also a genetic test to test your likely response to fin. If you are worried about side effects you could get this test done. If the result comes back and says you won't respond to fin, then you might not even bother with the risk of taking it.

7. I can't reinforce this enough. If you are going to take fin, you need to start it ASAP. This is because fin is fantastic at maintaining hair but poor at growing back lost hair. Once the damage is done by DHT it is extremely unlikely you will ever get that hair back from the current range of drugs (or any of the drugs in development right now). If you wait until it's too late, your hair will miniaturise and you won't be able to get it back.

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## manimgoindowndown

pate thanks!

1. I think you're wrong here. I know the half life is that long BUT DHT takes about two weeks to produce to the quantity that finasteride takes away?


6. What's this test called for finasteride's genetic potential? If I mention it is it common enough my doctor will know about it...also will GPs typically do it or dermos ?

The one thing that really scares the shitt out of me as someone who would like kids in the future is that a small amoutn of finasteride comes through your semen! I imagine Finasteride could have a dangerous affect on a child

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## manimgoindowndown

> 1. Not sure. But finasteride's half life in the body is only 4 to 6 hours. 2.5mg of finasteride every 3 days seems like a bad idea because your DHT levels would just see-saw constantly. You want to aim for a steady-state. This may not be such an issue for women because they don't produce as much DHT and it doesn't have such an effect on their bodies. If you don't want to take a pill every day you would need something like dutasteride which has a much longer half-life. Guys on dut often take a dose once a week.
> 
> 2. There are several papers doing the rounds of forums like this about the role of DHT in sex drive and other body processes. If you're interested you should probably track them down and read them.
> 
> 3. Minox should still work, but maybe not as well as it would have worked last time. At any rate minox doesn't generally work for very long unless it's supported by fin. Couple of years at most.
> 
> 4. The evidence of permanent damage is not yet clear. There are reports of it but a causal link has not been established that is generally accepted by the scientific community. There does seem to be something strange going on though. My suspicion is that for a certain sub-set of men, the effects are permanent. Question is, how big is that sub-set? Nobody knows yet because no clinical trial has yet found evidence of it.
> 
> 5. Some anti-fin campaigners argue there is permanent damage caused by fin. As far as I understand it though, they are not usually arguing that hormone levels don't return to normal. They are arguing that fin damages receptors in the brain and other areas. So your hormone levels might return to normal but your body can't respond to them fully. You are probably best off asking some anti-fin people, they are quick to put their argument forward. Personally I'm on the fence.
> ...


 Also Pate what are you using and how long hae you been on it?

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## manimgoindowndown

something else you also brought up is that minoxidil is temporary and the hair you made (strengthened rather) falls out after you stop it.

Why is it that I have heard that although you can discontinue finasteride and side effects go away...why doesn't your hair fall out like with minoxidil?

If it is true and there are side effects in less than 2% of males...why isn't finasteride a wonder drug then?

Sorry for sounding so juvenile!

Tell me how I look bald

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## mpb47

> something else you also brought up is that minoxidil is temporary and the hair you made (strengthened rather) falls out after you stop it.
> 
> Why is it that I have heard that although you can discontinue finasteride and side effects go away...why doesn't your hair fall out like with minoxidil?
> 
> If it is true and there are side effects in less than 2% of males...why isn't finasteride a wonder drug then?
> 
> Sorry for sounding so juvenile!
> 
> Tell me how I look bald


 You will lose any hair you grow if you stop ether minoxidil or fin. I have done both and starting losing hair around the 3 month mark after I stopped.

Have been using minoxidil for 15 years and it's still working for me.
I used FIN for several years and it worked much better than I expected, but I got sides and had to stop. You may never have problems, you just have to try it and see. Just keep an eye on things and get off of it FAST if you get the sides.

Good luck...

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## 3rdDecade

I don't see your problem, bald suits you. Correct skin tone to pull it off

No offence on British or American people but slightly darker skinned look better bald.

Thats why i'm not to bothered going bald myself with olive skin tone

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## manimgoindowndown

Hey one more questions guys! I once remember reading a study that said didn't see an effective improvement in finasteride over a certain dosage (.25mg vs 1mg?)...does anyone remember this study and the dosage and frequency it mentioned?

Also I guess I will at least have to start this every day at 1mg (lower dosage) and I'm hoping after a year to switch to duasteride if there aren't any noticeable side effects.

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## manimgoindowndown

Also I would like to split my generic proscar 5mg into 1mg peices (as opposed to quarters) since I heard the difference between 1mg and 1.25mg might cause a lot of the side effects. Anyone know a pill cutter that splits for proscar? Or maybe a tool I could buy to cut it myself like a sclapel/knife? A link particularly to Amazon where reviews are would be nice


What's the expiration/shelf life of finasteride if the tablets are stored in a dry cool place?

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## Pate

I'm not sure how long it takes the body to replenish the DHT from a dose of fin but I know Rassman talks about it only taking a few days for DHT to start damaging follicles after you stop taking it.

If you're right and it takes two weeks you could probably get away with 2.5mg of fin every 3 days but personally I don't like the idea.

The fin test is called the HairDX test. I don't actually know much about it, but you seem pretty switched on, I'm sure you can research the hell out of it if you're interested and tell us.  :Smile: 

I use the Big Three, fin, minox and ketoconazole shampoo. Been on minox for about six years and fin/keto for three years, nearly four. Recently I have switched from straight minox to Spectral DNC. I have never had sides from fin except possibly putting on weight but that might be purely coincidental.

Unfortunately I left it too late to start fin (didn't realise how bad my hair had got because nobody mentioned it) so while I grew back hair on my crown almost completely I didn't grow back much at all at the front or top, so I am very thin there. On the plus side I haven't lost any more hair from what I can tell so my regimen has effectively halted my hair loss. Both my grandfathers and my father were full NW6 so I'm not going the transplant route because I know I won't have enough donor hair to make it look good.

You will lose any hair you grew if you come off fin and you will also lose any hair you kept - you will go straight back to where you would have been if you had never taken it at all.

Personally I think you look fine with a shaved head, you pull it off better than most people can. I agree that olive complexion is best for a shaved head. When it's that short it hardly even looks like you're balding with the amount of loss you've had so far.

If I were to give you any advice it would be to decide if you want to try fin ASAP and then go through with your decision. If you get sides, stop taking it. Then regardless of whether take it or not, you look fine with a shaved head so keep shaving your head and get on with your life!

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## Pate

And I don't know anything about pill splitters but I would think any one would work fine for Proscar.

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## manimgoindowndown

Second day on fin. Not bad and I guess some things are so subtle that the placebo fear freaks me out.
Taking 1.25mg . I would have liked to start with 1mg, but the 5mg proscar tablets from Target are round, not pentagonal.

A few things happened today. Had a stye inside my left eye...this barely happens with my allergies and it was pretty sudden. Kind of freaked me out. The left eyelid (once you open it ) was also a lot more red than my right eye. No allergies present at the moment.

I also lift weights for strength. DEFINITELY felt my legs give out quicker on squat, all things equal on normal days.  To be fair here I did up my weight on squats from 180 to 185 ( I am 215 pounds) on a 5 rep scheme. This might be the difference, but increased recovery time.

Libido's been fine. Erection felt a little numb like there was a lot of blood in my penis the second time I had a go today with the lady. 

My right eyebrows hairs were shiny/white and I pulled it out easily. Apparently this is a side effect for some people? I thought body hair (as opposed to face hair) is DHT dependent. Am I wrong , or was this a coincidence)

Kind of weird pinching feeling on the left rear delt, but then again I have been lifting hard and I get all kinds of weird body responses all the time.

I'm still kind of on the fence for fin. I was like I'll give it a year, but if there are any sides to it, like showing on my second day (vs paranoia), I think I look good bald, and it is actually kind of liberating and a motivator to continue to workout as I think bald+musclar is sexy.

I also read one thing at this point that seems to still bother me about estrogen/estradiol levels being raised as much as 15&#37;. That kinda sucks ;(

Also, what are the advantages/disadvnatages of a topical DHT blocker? I assume it doesn't show up in your blood serum as much. Isn't it safer in that sense?

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## manimgoindowndown

Also would anyone haave a picture off of google or something that shows what a guy who is 'gyno prone' looks like?I have some big pecs and my bodyfat is double digits, so I'm kind of ambiguous to that standard

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## manimgoindowndown

Hey guys reviving an old thread. I gave up fin because of its sexual side effects, a week after trying it initially and have ONLY been shaving my head since.

I am thinking of going to Rogaine Foam for a couple of months, but I wonder if I am low enough on the NW scale (dad and his brothers all bald) for anything to happen.

This is my hair grown out a couple of weeks. All my baldness is on the TOP of my head, where  I read Rogaine doesn't work. I really wonder if its worth the commitment of 2x daily application for the rest of my life, if I will still have hair covering a 'shining dome' on top? How much hair could I realistically grow back?

This is I think a 6 week grow out.

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## vcity

I get really skeptical of people claiming they got sides, especially within only a week (aside from watery semen, which shouldn't be too much of a concern and should be expected because finasteride affects your prostate). More often than not, it's anxiety causing the "sexual sides" .. i.e. try getting an erection normally thinking you're not going to get an erection - it's a physiological as much as mental process. This trend is even more apparent with forum posters and avid readers .. they post how nervous they are before and then stop relatively quickly .. of course, because you were nervous/anxious to begin with.

That being said .. personally I don't think there's that much of a point starting rogaine this late, your pattern is already well advanced. I'm your age and started balding at 15-16 (didn't notice until the end of my sr year in highschool though) and I started treatment at 17. Thankfully I have been able to hold off the inevitable with the meds (although now i feel its starting to lose effectiveness unfortunately ). 

On a plus note, you look good bald and you don't mind the look .. if I were you I would get out and enjoy life and stop reading forums.. They're only going to make you more depressed. Same goes with starting meds, even of you grow a bit of hair back.. You're never going to be happy or completely satisfied and always going to worry. Heck, I don't remember the last time I've been completely happy or worry free in the past 5 years because of hairloss. 

Key point: if you can accept baldness, not point in trying to grow anything back. Unfortunately i can't accept it .. not yet anyways.

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## Notcoolanymore

What bothers you more: a life long commitment to minoxidil, or the horseshoe look?   If you want to do what you can to avoid being a NW6 or worse, give minox a try.  You can always say screw it and stop if you decide it is a pain to apply.  Not saying minox will do anything, but I personally would give it a try for at least 6 months.  What do you have to lose, 50 bucks?

Also have you considered microdosing fin?  MPB47, actually posted in this thread that he was no longer taking fin because of the sides.  He jumped back on it at .25mg(I believe) and is seeing results.

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## manimgoindowndown

I feel you guys. I'm sure you guys come across a ton of posters who have a mental inability to come to terms with their baldness, but I have a great mind body connection and make sure to keep all things except for my variable the same (dosing). I actually find out what people are using, google what I feel and the medicine's name after my experince, to see if there is any connection with the medicine I am talking, vs knowing the symptom beforeh and I DEFINITELY felt it with fin. This was more than a year ago so I might have been on it for more than a week, but I could definitely feel a lack of sexual drive, recovery time on lifts etc.



From what I understood, and what is my current concern is that much more often than not, and proven scientifically, rogaine does not grow hair on the top of your head. Combined with my father's side of the family losing hair, I wonder if the marginal benefit of rogaine (which is a lot less than fin) is worth it.

The way I look at this is I have to shave my head everywweek and from a time stand point it's probably a lot easier rubbing Rogaine on top of my head 90 seconds every morning. The only side effect I had on Rogaine was some bags underneath my eye and it being hot and going to the gym, not having the foam fully absorbed, or being secreted after I sweated in the gym.

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## mpb47

> What bothers you more: a life long commitment to minoxidil, or the horseshoe look?   If you want to do what you can to avoid being a NW6 or worse, give minox a try.  You can always say screw it and stop if you decide it is a pain to apply.  Not saying minox will do anything, but I personally would give it a try for at least 6 months.  What do you have to lose, 50 bucks?
> 
> Also have you considered microdosing fin?  MPB47, actually posted in this thread that he was no longer taking fin because of the sides.  He jumped back on it at .25mg(I believe) and is seeing results.


 That is correct. i am taking .25 2x a week. It is working though I would say this time my results on a small dose are more typical than the first time. By that i mean it is working better in the back than in the front and the new hair is thin and soft. But still better off than before for sure. Since I am not having any issues, i am considering upping the dose to see if crown will fill in more.

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## Tortoise

The connection between fin/dut and sexual side effects is not straight forward. I have had the complete opposite reaction to fin and dut where my sex drive and erections increased (but semen changed a little). But there's definitely a lot of bad news surrounding these meds and sexual side effects - I think there's some crazy guys out there who have vendettas and who flood the net with their stories purposefully trying to make other men avoid the meds. 

Best of luck with whatever you choose.

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## Notcoolanymore

> The connection between fin/dut and sexual side effects is not straight forward. I have had the complete opposite reaction to fin and dut where my sex drive and erections increased (but semen changed a little). But there's definitely a lot of bad news surrounding these meds and sexual side effects - *I think there's some crazy guys out there who have vendettas and who flood the net with their stories purposefully trying to make other men avoid the meds.* 
> 
> Best of luck with whatever you choose.


 I believe there are guys out there that have suffered sides, but I think many of the guys are the ones you describe in your post.

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