# Men's Hair Loss > Coping with Hair Loss in Everyday Life >  5mg Finpecia ordered, pill cutter bought -- it's time

## BigThinker

Well, guys, I was just having one of those days.  Was in the brightly lit bathroom at work and saw the left side of my hairline (the side I typically aggressively part and comb to the side) was looking see through as ever.

It all of a sudden hit me.  I'm sitting here counting the days until my dermatology appointment, and I don't even know if my dermatologist (who is a totally chill sweetheart) is going to prescribe me the 5mg Finpecia pills I am hoping to start taking.  I realized, I'd just as well cancel the appointment, order 5mg Finpecia from inhousepharmacy (Cipla brand), and take matters into my own hands.

So, here we are.  I paid a meager $27 for 10 pills, which I will cut into 8ths, start taking every other day for the 3 months, and then every day afterwards.  I havn't cancelled my derm appointment just yet, but will once the pills arrive so that my derm can fill my time slot in with someone else.

I'm just sick of the thinning in my frontal lobe especially, and seeing the miniaturized hairs fall out every day.  The hairs that fall are miniaturized 80% of the time.  While I will admit my density looks a bit better than it did ~1.5 months ago, it's still not where I want it.

Just looking for a little support here, guys.  I don't want to be setting up $60 follow-up appointments for eternity.  I don't want to just hope she prescribes me 5 mg pill.  I'm over it.  I can see the roots of my hairs turning blonde.  It's time to start popping the pill and worry about finishing my Master's and going full-time with my employer instead of my hair.  If the fin doesn't fix it, I'll buzz my head and taper off of the pill.

Appreciate any support you guys give, but know I'm pretty set in my ways.  Attached are some pics I took with decent resolution to show you why I'm so concerned.

Time to hit the gym harder than I've ever hit it to burn this anxiety away.  Need a little peace of mind.  I don't want to lose my looks (which feels really shitty to say).

Best regards, compadres.

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## clandestine

BigThinker; were often our own worst critics. Your hair looks great, all things considered. We're always here for support, should you need it.

All the best,
clandestine

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## elnino

> Well, guys, I was just having one of those days.  Was in the brightly lit bathroom at work and saw the left side of my hairline (the side I typically aggressively part and comb to the side) was looking see through as ever.
> 
> It all of a sudden hit me.  I'm sitting here counting the days until my dermatology appointment, and I don't even know if my dermatologist (who is a totally chill sweetheart) is going to prescribe me the 5mg Finpecia pills I am hoping to start taking.  I realized, I'd just as well cancel the appointment, order 5mg Finpecia from inhousepharmacy (Cipla brand), and take matters into my own hands.
> 
> So, here we are.  I paid a meager $27 for 10 pills, which I will cut into 8ths, start taking every other day for the 3 months, and then every day afterwards.  I havn't cancelled my derm appointment just yet, but will once the pills arrive so that my derm can fill my time slot in with someone else.
> 
> I'm just sick of the thinning in my frontal lobe especially, and seeing the miniaturized hairs fall out every day.  The hairs that fall are miniaturized 80% of the time.  While I will admit my density looks a bit better than it did ~1.5 months ago, it's still not where I want it.
> 
> Just looking for a little support here, guys.  I don't want to be setting up $60 follow-up appointments for eternity.  I don't want to just hope she prescribes me 5 mg pill.  I'm over it.  I can see the roots of my hairs turning blonde.  It's time to start popping the pill and worry about finishing my Master's and going full-time with my employer instead of my hair.  If the fin doesn't fix it, I'll buzz my head and taper off of the pill.
> ...


 
i dont want to sound patronising but it looks good man, compared to mine but i suppose its all relative to one self, anyway the 5mg, thats proscar so is it? im using that at the mo and cutting it, bit of a pain but well cheap though.
im currently off the minox but thinking about going back on it again. hate trying to style it and combover it and what have ya, seems im doing an 80 yr old mans chore at 27!! anyway mate i honestly think it looks good.

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## dex89

Yeah bro, your hair looks great, you can style nicely and it seems you have the face structure to rock with it. Inhousepharm is a legit website, I buy proscar from them and so far it hasn't failed me. Cutting into 8ths its gonna be tricky though but I'm pretty sure your gonna benefit from this, stay positive my friend  :Smile:

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## BigThinker

Thanks for the support.  It really means a lot to me.

I should clarify, I went with Fincar because it's just stupid cheap.  It says 5 mg finasteride, so I have to assume that's correct?  Will someone confirm this?

Otherwise, again, I appreciate the kind words.  I know I have it good (hairwise) relative to a lot of dudes, so I really hate to come off as a whiny punk.  Further, I got the bald gene from my dad, who is NW7, and he is the best man I've ever known -- perfectly selfless and supportive -- so, again, I really hate to come off whiny to him.

There's just a piece of me that hurts when I can see through that hairline.  And I know it's not getting better.

We'll see about cutting it into 8ths when it gets here -- I'll report on that as well as start my official "Day 1 on Fin".

Just to re-ask: this stuff will do the trick, theoretically, right?

Fincar 5mg (Finasteride)-3 Strips of Fincar (30 Tablets)

Thanks my brothers.

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## Breaking Bald

Good luck BT!!!!  :Cool:  Hope it works out for you, keep us updated! 

Peace! BB

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## dex89

> Thanks for the support.  It really means a lot to me.
> 
> I should clarify, I went with Fincar because it's just stupid cheap.  It says 5 mg finasteride, so I have to assume that's correct?  Will someone confirm this?
> 
> Otherwise, again, I appreciate the kind words.  I know I have it good (hairwise) relative to a lot of dudes, so I really hate to come off as a whiny punk.  Further, I got the bald gene from my dad, who is NW7, and he is the best man I've ever known -- perfectly selfless and supportive -- so, again, I really hate to come off whiny to him.
> 
> There's just a piece of me that hurts when I can see through that hairline.  And I know it's not getting better.
> 
> We'll see about cutting it into 8ths when it gets here -- I'll report on that as well as start my official "Day 1 on Fin".
> ...


 I've never tried it myself but It's made out the same ingredients, so it should work, then again I am not 100% sure  :Frown: . Do some research before buying, go to other hair loss forums. That's what I did before switching to proscar.

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## BigThinker

> I've never tried it myself but It's made out the same ingredients, so it should work, then again I am not 100% sure . Do some research before buying, go to other hair loss forums. That's what I did before switching to proscar.


 I did just that.  Sounds like it's just as good.  No more worrying from me.  Just wait and see if it works.

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## Aames

Good luck, mate. Hopefully you can maintain since you can rock the side-part look quite well. I know how frustrating this can all be. I'm on the edge of ordering duta since I REALLY want to stop my hair loss now and possibly regrow. If I recede any further, I won't be able to style my hair as I always have.

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## dex89

I got a question good sir, 

Do you shed a lot or some what around your hairline and temple area?

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## BigThinker

> I got a question good sir, 
> 
> Do you shed a lot or some what around your hairline and temple area?


 I've always had a big forehead and my temples have been non-existent for as long as I can remember.  I'm basically not shedding much anymore.  I can shake my finger tips through my entire scalp as hard as I can and only have 2-3 fall.  The hairs that fall are typically very light in color by the bulb, but normal color otherwise.  The hair behind the hairline is very light and blonde towards the bulb, like the hairs fall out.

My hairline has been creeping back for 1.5 years I would estimate, based on pictures.  And, I can't foresee it stopping.  Currently, about 1/4th to 1/2th an inch from the hairline and back is incredibly thin - especially on the side that I aggressively part it (left side, see picture above).  So, I've come to the conclusion combing my hair on that side has expedited the receding process and/or I'm receding asymmetrically (which I've read is rather common).

I have no diffuse thinning behind the "frontal lobe", and the diffusion is worse towards the front, getting gradually "better" towards the back.  From what I've read, http://www.*****************/hair-los...ontal-hair.pdf, fin might save my frontal lobe.

I'm not thinning like my father (aggressive NW7 - bald by 27, or so) and I'm nothing like my maternal grandfather (NW1).  I've noticed, recently, that my hair loss is damn near identical to my paternal Grandfather when he was slightly younger than me, as well as my paternal uncle.  If my hair follow suit with them, it'll be the same M shape that gradually keeps moving backwards (maintaining the M) until NW5-6.  My paternal uncle is in his early 50's and has froze at about an NW 5.

We were looking at old pictures at Christmas, and I saw a picture of my paternal grandfather with hair loss JUST like mine, except at an NW3-4, and my grandmother estimated he was 25-27 years old (after I inquired).  It's funny how when we get self-conscious about balding we begin analyzing everyone else hair.

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## dex89

> I've always had a big forehead and my temples have been non-existent for as long as I can remember.  I'm basically not shedding much anymore.  I can shake my finger tips through my entire scalp as hard as I can and only have 2-3 fall.  The hairs that fall are typically very light in color by the bulb, but normal color otherwise.  The hair behind the hairline is very light and blonde towards the bulb, like the hairs fall out.
> 
> My hairline has been creeping back for 1.5 years I would estimate, based on pictures.  And, I can't foresee it stopping.  Currently, about 1/4th to 1/2th an inch from the hairline and back is incredibly thin - especially on the side that I aggressively part it (left side, see picture above).  So, I've come to the conclusion combing my hair on that side has expedited the receding process and/or I'm receding asymmetrically (which I've read is rather common).
> 
> I have no diffuse thinning behind the "frontal lobe", and the diffusion is worse towards the front, getting gradually "better" towards the back.  From what I've read, http://www.*****************/hair-los...ontal-hair.pdf, fin might save my frontal lobe.
> 
> I'm not thinning like my father (aggressive NW7 - bald by 27, or so) and I'm nothing like my maternal grandfather (NW1).  I've noticed, recently, that my hair loss is damn near identical to my paternal Grandfather when he was slightly younger than me, as well as my paternal uncle.  If my hair follow suit with them, it'll be the same M shape that gradually keeps moving backwards (maintaining the M) until NW5-6.  My paternal uncle is in his early 50's and has froze at about an NW 5.
> 
> We were looking at old pictures at Christmas, and I saw a picture of my paternal grandfather with hair loss JUST like mine, except at an NW3-4, and my grandmother estimated he was 25-27 years old (after I inquired).  It's funny how when we get self-conscious about balding we begin analyzing everyone else hair.


 Thank you for the reply BigThinker. My hairline has been creeping has well and it sucks but FIN has alter it. So far, I only shed about 5 hairs when I shower which is better then 15 hairs a couple a weeks before. Ha true, I also analyzes every ones.

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## BigThinker

> Thank you for the reply BigThinker. My hairline has been creeping has well and it sucks but FIN has alter it. So far, I only shed about 5 hairs when I shower which is better then 15 hairs a couple a weeks before. Ha true, I also analyzes every ones.


 You bet, bud.  Yeah, my hair shedding is naturally slowing down on, but the old hairs aren't coming back - time to intermittent, low-dose it with fin.

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## BigThinker

Yo guys.  Fincar 5mg just got here.

I cut it into 8ths, which was surprisingly easy, and popped the first one without thinking twice (0.625 mg).

I've taken baseline pics and stored them on my comp, but for the purposes of this forum I will be treating the pics on the original post as baseline.

mmmmmmmmmmmmm that's about it.

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## baldozer

You hair still looks great, don't worry so much!

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## Aames

> Yo guys.  Fincar 5mg just got here.
> 
> I cut it into 8ths, which was surprisingly easy, and popped the first one without thinking twice (0.625 mg).
> 
> I've taken baseline pics and stored them on my comp, but for the purposes of this forum I will be treating the pics on the original post as baseline.
> 
> mmmmmmmmmmmmm that's about it.


 RIP BigThinker's genitalia.

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## BigThinker

> RIP BigThinker's genitalia.


 Bah! Who needs 'em anyway.

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## 25 going on 65

> Bah! Who needs 'em anyway.


  :Big Grin:  I always used to think "if my penis falls off the net result would be the same as if I lost all my hair, so nothing to lose...."

As you can see I was never well equipped to handle balding

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## dex89

> Yo guys.  Fincar 5mg just got here.
> 
> I cut it into 8ths, which was surprisingly easy, and popped the first one without thinking twice (0.625 mg).
> 
> I've taken baseline pics and stored them on my comp, but for the purposes of this forum I will be treating the pics on the original post as baseline.
> 
> mmmmmmmmmmmmm that's about it.


 
You won't regret it, trust me.

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## michael l

to be honest mate your hair looks fine , but you know best !

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## Exodus

Good Luck, your experience will be closely followed. Do you intend to chuck Minox into the mix? I think I might now its this short...

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## baldozer

> I always used to think "if my penis falls off the net result would be the same as if I lost all my hair, so nothing to lose...."
> 
> As you can see I was never well equipped to handle balding


 People like you suffer from Body dysmorphic disorder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_dysmorphic_disorder

In research carried out by Dr. Katharine Philips, involving over 500 patients, the percentage of patients concerned with the most common locations were as follows;

    Skin (73%)
* Hair (56%)*
    Nose (37%)
    Weight (22%)
    Stomach (22%)
    Breasts/chest/nipples (21%)
    Eyes (20%)
    Thighs (20%)
    Teeth (20%)
    Legs (overall) (18%)
    ......

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## BigThinker

> You won't regret it, trust me.


 I know I won't.  I've been jonesing for my fin to get here every since I placed the order.  My only regret is that I didn't do it 8-9 months ago at first indication.




> to be honest mate your hair looks fine , but you know best !


 Thanks, mang.  It's hard for me to get a picture that really shows it.  I've attached one that shows the current status pretty well. Edit: I accidentally hit submit and don't have the attachment option in "Edit".  See post below.




> People like you suffer from Body dysmorphic disorder.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_dysmorphic_disorder
> 
> In research carried out by Dr. Katharine Philips, involving over 500 patients, the percentage of patients concerned with the most common locations were as follows;
> 
>     Skin (73&#37
> * Hair (56%)*
>     Nose (37%)
> ...


 Oh, so a study found that people have insecurities related to their appearance.  Sounds ground breaking.

Bottom line is I have miniaturization, recession, and diffusion identified by an accredited professional.  Further, on the paternal side of my family every dude goes bald.

The only thing I can't understand is: 1.) Why you want to convince guys that are clearly balding that they aren't, 2.) Why you think your faceless internet persona is somehow going to convince me otherwise.

I'll speculate: 1.) You want everyone to suffer from the full extent of their baldness because you couldn't or wouldn't do something about yours, 2.) Actually, nevermind, I have no idea why you would think you could convince me other wise. :Stick Out Tongue:

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## BigThinker

Here's the pic of my hairline, Mike.  One of the pics shows the recession, the other shows the diffusion, and the last one I tried to get the miniaturized hairs in the shot.  Other than that, you'll just have to take my word on it, good sir.

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## baldozer

> Oh, so a study found that people have insecurities related to their appearance.  Sounds ground breaking.
> 
> Bottom line is I have miniaturization, recession, and diffusion identified by an accredited professional.  Further, on the paternal side of my family every dude goes bald.
> 
> The only thing I can't understand is: 1.) Why you want to convince guys that are clearly balding that they aren't, 2.) Why you think your faceless internet persona is somehow going to convince me otherwise.
> 
> I'll speculate: 1.) You want everyone to suffer from the full extent of their baldness because you couldn't or wouldn't do something about yours, 2.) Actually, nevermind, I have no idea why you would think you could convince me other wise.


 I was saying that to 25 going to 65, not you. And please stop repeating that "You want everyone to suffer from baldness", because I don't. You are showing some recession, no doubt, but I have seen some people here who are not even NW1 and thinking about taking avodart! Now if that is not BDD, than what else is it?

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## BigThinker

> I was saying that to 25 going to 65, not you. And please stop repeating that "You want everyone to suffer from baldness", because I don't. You are showing some recession, no doubt, but I have seen some people here who are not even NW1 and thinking about taking avodart! Now if that is not BDD, than what else is it?


 Haha my bad.  I just was reading a string of comments and not paying mind to who they were directed to.  But, in my defense, you are always on about fin sides.

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## 25 going on 65

> People like you suffer from Body dysmorphic disorder.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_dysmorphic_disorder
> 
> In research carried out by Dr. Katharine Philips, involving over 500 patients, the percentage of patients concerned with the most common locations were as follows;
> 
>     Skin (73&#37
> * Hair (56%)*
>     Nose (37%)
> ...


 Most likely I do have BDD. I have mentioned it before on this forum in fact.

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## BigThinker

One week in.  I switched to 0.625mg/day two days ago.

Was running late for work and popped my fin on an empty stomach and pounded a coffee as well.  In the meeting, I felt a bit of a ball ache.  It was like a modest case of "blue balls"; you know, like someone is squeezing on your balls and prostrate.  I've had this feeling due to a variety of reasons in the past, and this instance was mild relative to those.  It wasn't necessarily alarming, nor did it really deter my attention, but obviously it was noticeable for me to be reporting it.

No other sides to report.

The main reason for this 1 week update is that my head hasn't itched a bit since the 2nd pill - that terrible itch letting you know your hair follicles are being strangled.  Usually it was especially irritated when I worked out.  5 days of no itch now then.  I'm not claiming the fin is necessarily "working", but it sure is seems like a good sign.

That's all for now.

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## BigThinker

Time for a 1 month update.

Since my 1-week update, all sides have went away.  If there is any sort of brain fog or change in demeanor, I genuinely haven't noticed it nor had anyone comment.  Nut ache never came back after the first week.  Itch is still gone, and my peace of mind is stronger than it's been in the better part of year.

Anyways, I decided to snag some updated pics because I just got my hair cut and noticed I have my first bit of noticeable thinning on my crown -- bit of a bummer, but I'm hoping the finasteride will hit that, irrespective if it works on the hair line (see pics).

Also, this last week I started shedding like absolute crazy.  I went out drinking all day on Saturday for St. Patties and the next day it was raining hairs.  Rather demoralizing, but every single hair was completely miniaturized or tapered/miniaturized at the proximal end.  I won't bother reading into that too much, but I just want to acknowledge the shed.

I'll leave it at that and check in for a 2 month or 3 month update.

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## 25 going on 65

> Time for a 1 month update.
> 
> Since my 1-week update, all sides have went away.  If there is any sort of brain fog or change in demeanor, I genuinely haven't noticed it nor had anyone comment.  Nut ache never came back after the first week.  Itch is still gone, and my peace of mind is stronger than it's been in the better part of year.
> 
> Anyways, I decided to snag some updated pics because I just got my hair cut and noticed I have my first bit of noticeable thinning on my crown -- bit of a bummer, but I'm hoping the finasteride will hit that, irrespective if it works on the hair line (see pics).
> 
> Also, this last week I started shedding like absolute crazy.  I went out drinking all day on Saturday for St. Patties and the next day it was raining hairs.  Rather demoralizing, but every single hair was completely miniaturized or tapered/miniaturized at the proximal end.  I won't bother reading into that too much, but I just want to acknowledge the shed.
> 
> I'll leave it at that and check in for a 2 month or 3 month update.


 With any luck these miniaturized hairs will come back stronger. If you just now are noticing crown thinning you have a great chance to halt it or even revert it (finasteride works well for the crown, people have filled their crowns in with more extensive loss than you have)
Peace of mind is a big deal. I will never forget my sense of relief when I popped that first pill....like "ahh, finally I am officially doing something about this"

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## BigThinker

Yeah, I hope so.  Was definitely a bit shocking to see my scalp like that.  That's actually why I've decided to get my hair cut shorter and shorter.  I want to be aware of what's going on.

If my hair just stops where it is, I'll be content.  Filling the crown back in  would be icing on the cake.

And yeah, the peace of mind is good.  I'd be crazy if I hadn't started by now.

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## Aames

Your hair looks good, man. I sure hope you can halt your loss. I've been shedding more than ever lately too. Hopefully this is a sign the meds are working for us.

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## BigThinker

You know it's implicit that I wish you the same success in all I say, compadre.

I appreciate the kind words.  Throughout this whole hairloss ordeal, I've had to re-calibrate my confidence to live with this drastic change in appearance -- all the while knowing it could and probably will continue to deteriorate.  At the risk of sounding manic: finding peace and genuine confidence has been absolutely paramount in my ability to continue functioning at school, work, and with women.

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## El Nino

> Well, guys, I was just having one of those days.  Was in the brightly lit bathroom at work and saw the left side of my hairline (the side I typically aggressively part and comb to the side) was looking see through as ever.
> 
> It all of a sudden hit me.  I'm sitting here counting the days until my dermatology appointment, and I don't even know if my dermatologist (who is a totally chill sweetheart) is going to prescribe me the 5mg Finpecia pills I am hoping to start taking.  I realized, I'd just as well cancel the appointment, order 5mg Finpecia from inhousepharmacy (Cipla brand), and take matters into my own hands.
> 
> So, here we are.  I paid a meager $27 for 10 pills, which I will cut into 8ths, start taking every other day for the 3 months, and then every day afterwards.  I havn't cancelled my derm appointment just yet, but will once the pills arrive so that my derm can fill my time slot in with someone else.
> 
> I'm just sick of the thinning in my frontal lobe especially, and seeing the miniaturized hairs fall out every day.  The hairs that fall are miniaturized 80% of the time.  While I will admit my density looks a bit better than it did ~1.5 months ago, it's still not where I want it.
> 
> Just looking for a little support here, guys.  I don't want to be setting up $60 follow-up appointments for eternity.  I don't want to just hope she prescribes me 5 mg pill.  I'm over it.  I can see the roots of my hairs turning blonde.  It's time to start popping the pill and worry about finishing my Master's and going full-time with my employer instead of my hair.  If the fin doesn't fix it, I'll buzz my head and taper off of the pill.
> ...


 BigThinker,

You have been on Finasteride for less than two months. 

Do you think this is long enough to determine how it is affecting your body, whether that's positively or negatively?

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## BigThinker

Not with certainty.  But, I'm also a strong believer that there is a lot you can do to prepare for finasteride.  For me, I made sure I was in a safe place mentally and physically.

I've always been a bit of hypochondriac, so I didn't want to start fin unless I felt I could take it and be objective regarding sides.

So far it's been nothing but positive.  I honestly spent June-Feb stressing my hair non-stop.  Every reflection was a reminder of the path my hair was headed.  Sitting in class, I was running my hands through my hair, analyzing every hair that fell on my desk.  In the bathroom where the light is brightest, I was gripped by my hairline and deteriorating density, even in public.  I'll admit this is my own weakness, because many men move right along with hair worse than mine.

_Immediately_ after I started fin, the non-superficial reminder (the itch) was gone.  After that, the superficial reminders became unimportant.  I knew that fin was going to take time to work, and I was committed.  It was out of my hands, in that respect.  I am now putting in 10 hour days wrapping my Master's Thesis, going out on the weekends, logging hours in at my place of work, etc, and hair consumes a negligible amount of my attention now relatively stress-free.

But, I accept that there is uncertainty regarding the future.  I can only speak regarding this 1st month.  I know I've been a little outspoken on this board, and it is only partially justified.  I'm just so annoyed with _myself_ for not starting fin way back in October when I first _really_ got worried.  3-4 different times I put my card information in the order form for fin, but deleted it because of horror stories I had read -- pushing back the inevitable.

I'm not solely blaming the anti-fin guys, but they honestly cost me months of lost hair.  I accept responsibility for my own actions, but I refuse to let a new member of this board only hear their side.

So, I'm sorry if I come off as obnoxious; I'm just passionate about this, and I want to see other guys hear both sides loud and clear.

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## El Nino

No need to apologise mate I can take it.

I really hope you don't experience any negative sides from Finasteride. I just want guys to be more informed than I was when I first took it in 2007. 

When I started the only sides I was aware of were ED, ball ache and gyno. So these were the sides I was "looking for". But the ball ache went away after a few weeks and I never had any ED or gyno.

But in 2010 I noticed that something was negatively affecting my body (muscle wastage) and my mental health (brain fog). It was the Finasteride.

Now I'm not saying this will happen to you cos everyone reacts differently to Fin and at different time lines. Some guys have been on it 10+ years without any side effects.

However, I only wish you the best of luck.

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## Aames

> No need to apologise mate I can take it.
> 
> I really hope you don't experience any negative sides from Finasteride. I just want guys to be more informed than I was when I first took it in 2007. 
> 
> When I started the only sides I was aware of were ED, ball ache and gyno. So these were the sides I was "looking for". But the ball ache went away after a few weeks and I never had any ED or gyno.
> 
> But in 2010 I noticed that something was negatively affecting my body (muscle wastage) and my mental health (brain fog). It was the Finasteride.
> 
> Now I'm not saying this will happen to you cos everyone reacts differently to Fin and at different time lines. Some guys have been on it 10+ years without any side effects.
> ...


 Muscle wastage? I am not attacking you as I may have in the past but how do you know for certain it was fin? Do you lift regularly? Do you get adequate protein? You realize that DHT is not active in muscle tissue?

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## El Nino

> Muscle wastage? I am not attacking you as I may have in the past but how do you know for certain it was fin? Do you lift regularly? Do you get adequate protein? You realize that DHT is not active in muscle tissue?


 Well my diet was the same, my exercise amount was the same. It started after the fin and has stopped after I discontinued the drug.

You can believe what you want it is no skin off my nose. 

Finasteride can cause a healthy male to prematurely age into an old man. Do I know the science? No but then neither do Merk. How do I know? Because it was happening to me! I lost muscle and strength in my hands, that is fact believe it or not.

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## BigThinker

El_Nino,

All good, sir.  I frequently see things I typed in the past on this site and realize how much of a prick I can come off as.  Frankly, that's just me; always has been, probably always will be.

Sorry to hear of your sides, but I'm happy to hear it was nothing serious.  I appreciate your well wishes.

I'm with Aames on the muscle deterioration bit.  I started lifting regularly and eating to gain mass in early Jan.  I'm up like 11 pounds and half of that time was spent on fin.   But, as you and I have both said multiple times, everyone is different.

Best regards, bud.

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## El Nino

> El_Nino,
> 
> All good, sir.  I frequently see things I typed in the past on this site and realize how much of a prick I can come off as.  Frankly, that's just me; always has been, probably always will be.
> 
> Sorry to hear of your sides, but I'm happy to hear it was nothing serious.  I appreciate your well wishes.
> 
> I'm with Aames on the muscle deterioration bit.  I started lifting regularly and eating to gain mass in early Jan.  I'm up like 11 pounds and half of that time was spent on fin.   But, as you and I have both said multiple times, everyone is different.
> 
> Best regards, bud.


 Cheers mate, yeah I sometimes regret some of my postings as well but it's too late to edit them. hehe

----------


## Shan

You got decent hair bro, though it has receded. Stay on fin to maintain.

----------


## BigThinker

> You got decent hair bro, though it has receded. Stay on fin to maintain.


 That's the plan.  I'm still shedding pretty good.  Let's hope what they say about fin sheds is legit.  If so, I'll a good and thick NW 2.5

----------


## 25 going on 65

Fin made Scorpion ripped as f*ck.

----------


## BigThinker

So, about 1.5 months in, and I'm shedding like crazy - have been for a week.  Almost all hairs shed are miniaturized.  Anyone else shed at this point in?  Hoping it lets up soon.  Sticking with fin regardless.

Also, I upped my dose to 0.833 mg from 0.625 mg a few days ago.  Pretty insignificant, but I haven't had a touch of sides for over a month now, so I'm upping it a bit.

Any feedback on the shed would be appreciated.

----------


## 25 going on 65

It is normal man. Hair loss meds are known for pushing hairs into anagen phase early. Most likely they will cycle back into catagen phase after 2-4 months. Just remember if a shed lasts (just an example) 4 months, the hairs that fell out at first might start growing in at the end of the shed, but the ones that fell out at the end of the shed will not be growing until 2-4 months after the shed ends. 
This is why people say give fin a year before passing judgment. If you start shedding at 1.5 months, shed for 4-5 months (again these are just example numbers), and your hairs need 3-4 months to return to growth the phase...that could be 10+ months after starting fin for all your shed hairs to be actively growing at the same time again, and maybe another month or two for them to all be an appreciable length that makes you realize "hey my hair looks better than when I started"

But no one can tell you when exactly you will be back to or above baseline, everyone is different. Some guys say they see improvement after less than half a year definitely

----------


## drybone

I agree. Ive been on FIN for 2 months and had a shed. I am waiting a year and using concealers in the meantime to bulk up density.  :Smile:

----------


## BigThinker

Alright, bros.  So, my shedding has chilled out the last two days (which is way too premature to say it's stopped, but it offers a pinch of hope).

My hair has taken a massive hit from the shed, which is part of taking finasteride -- something I knew full and well before embarking.

Anyways, here's my hair soaking wet (painful to see) and dry (still pretty painful), with strong lighting.  Getting damn thin up there, boys.  I'm cool with it though, I guess.  Hopefully, the hundreds of miniaturized hairs I'm shedding every day are planning on being replaced by thicker, stronger versions of themselves.  If not, I might have to bust out the clippers by full-on summer time.

That's all for now, gents.

----------


## Exodus

It doesn't look that bad. I mean compared to the stage mine got yours looks pretty darn good. 

I guess all you can do is push on and see if the the shedding stops and it picks up? Rogaine is also another option.

But take it from me, the clippers aint a bad option too bro!

----------


## 25 going on 65

I agree it does not look as bad as I expected. Wet + strong lighting is as bad as it gets for hair cosmetically. I honestly would expect appreciable results from fin in the next 8-12 months and if not, there is also dut.
You are definitely not one of the guys who just waited too long to make use of meds

----------


## BigThinker

New thick hairs coming in.

Compare the new dark hairs to the long, thin, miniaturized ones in my hairline.  Hopefully they'll all get replaced.

----------


## Woodyy

Hair looks good to me mate.

I've never been worried about my hairline receding a bit, if my hairline receded to NW2 or so I wouldn't care as long as it was still thick, it's the overall thinning that follows MPB with some people that scares me.

----------


## BigThinker

> Hair looks good to me mate.
> 
> I've never been worried about my hairline receding a bit, if my hairline receded to NW2 or so I wouldn't care as long as it was still thick, it's the overall thinning that follows MPB with some people that scares me.


 Thanks, muchacho.  I hear ya there.  I've receded and maintained most of my vertex and crown density.  I don't mind NW2 at all.  It's when that bald spot on the crown appears that I'd probably be pretty shook up.

The fact that I have these hairs sprouting in the hairline is invigorating.  I imagine the same is happening on my vertex as well.  Hell, I'd even take NW3 if it meant keeping my crown and vertex density.  I could live with Jude Law-esque hair.

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

I agree with every one else, your hair looks good. Keep treating it and hopefully get some new regrowth, but with the amount of hair you have, just thickening would be fine for you.

----------


## BigThinker

2.5 month update (baseline 02/21/2013)

Well, I've lost a little ground since starting finasteride 2.5 months ago.  My part has widened -- towards the crown most considerably.  Some hairs sprouting at the hairline; some hairs sprouting a ways out of the hairline (they apparently didn't get the memo they were supposed to abandon scalp permanently, to make room for  receding hairline).

No sides.  No "itch".

Still shedding quite a bit, but I think I've seen the worst of it.

I also added 2&#37; keto, once per week, to the mix ~1 week ago.  I need to order some more pretty quick, and am strongly considering buying some duta to take once a week -- will make that decision sometime tonight.

Anyways, here's about a few baselines pics versus 2.5 months.

----------


## 25 going on 65

tbh your hair does not look receded to me from baseline, more like you have lost density along the hairline (mainly where I see this is in the pic of the left side)
Actually I feel like I have noticed this effect slightly in my hairline corners, since starting dut. Or maybe I am just paying more attention now to my hair again. But when I get out of the shower and play with it in the light, it seems like the density possibly has taken a hit in those areas?
The weird thing is I also have noticed these tiny vellus hairs growing almost all the way up to my juvenile hairline. Again I am not sure if this is from dut or if I just never looked close enough before. But cosmetically they are 100% insignificant, very small and blond (my hair is dark)

Hopefully we will both get back to baseline and then some....I forgot how f*cking annoying it is to wait for full results on DHT blockers. I was depressed for months on fin until I started seeing a major improvement at 8-10 months or something like that

----------


## BigThinker

Yeah.  Definitely losing density at the the hairline from corner to corner.

Really I should only be expecting to have gotten worse from baseline at the 2.5 month mark, so I'm not stressing it too bad.  We'll see.

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

> tbh your hair does not look receded to me from baseline, more like you have lost density along the hairline (mainly where I see this is in the pic of the left side)
> Actually I feel like I have noticed this effect slightly in my hairline corners, since starting dut. Or maybe I am just paying more attention now to my hair again. But when I get out of the shower and play with it in the light, it seems like the density possibly has taken a hit in those areas?
> The weird thing is I also have noticed these *tiny vellus hairs growing almost all the way up to my juvenile hairline. Again I am not sure if this is from dut or if I just never looked close enough before. But cosmetically they are 100% insignificant, very small and blond (my hair is dark)*
> 
> Hopefully we will both get back to baseline and then some....I forgot how f*cking annoying it is to wait for full results on DHT blockers. I was depressed for months on fin until I started seeing a major improvement at 8-10 months or something like that


 It's probably the dut, because the same thing is happening to me. I have tiny hairs growing up to an NW1 hairline, but strangely only in the widow's peak area and my right side temple. The hairs are cosmetically insignificant and can only be seen if you take a close look at my forehead, but they are not blonde, they are black and they are following in the footsteps of the hairs above them, that weeks ago were cosmetically insignificant and are now shaping up as terminal hairs.

Dut is a very powerful drug, and I am a very good responder to it I guess. The process of thickening or regaining hair with hair loss treatments is very very slow, and it has always been for me in the past. But not with Dut, everything is happening fast. I'm truly shocked.

----------


## BigThinker

> It's probably the dut, because the same thing is happening to me. I have tiny hairs growing up to an NW1 hairline, but strangely only in the widow's peak area and my right side temple. The hairs are cosmetically insignificant and can only be seen if you take a close look at my forehead, but they are not blonde, they are black and they are following in the footsteps of the hairs above them, that weeks ago were cosmetically insignificant and are now shaping up as terminal hairs.
> 
> Dut is a very powerful drug, and I am a very good responder to it I guess. The process of thickening or regaining hair with hair loss treatments is very very slow, and it has always been for me in the past. But not with Dut, everything is happening fast. I'm truly shocked.


 


> tbh your hair does not look receded to me from baseline, more like you have lost density along the hairline (mainly where I see this is in the pic of the left side)
> Actually I feel like I have noticed this effect slightly in my hairline corners, since starting dut. Or maybe I am just paying more attention now to my hair again. But when I get out of the shower and play with it in the light, it seems like the density possibly has taken a hit in those areas?
> The weird thing is I also have noticed these tiny vellus hairs growing almost all the way up to my juvenile hairline. Again I am not sure if this is from dut or if I just never looked close enough before. But cosmetically they are 100% insignificant, very small and blond (my hair is dark)
> 
> Hopefully we will both get back to baseline and then some....I forgot how f*cking annoying it is to wait for full results on DHT blockers. I was depressed for months on fin until I started seeing a major improvement at 8-10 months or something like that


 Do you order your dut from inhouse?

What dose/frequency?  I'm ready to take the plunge.

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

I get it from inhouse. 0.5mg a day.

----------


## Henkeh91

> It's probably the dut, because the same thing is happening to me. I have tiny hairs growing up to an NW1 hairline, but strangely only in the widow's peak area and my right side temple. The hairs are cosmetically insignificant and can only be seen if you take a close look at my forehead, but they are not blonde, they are black and they are following in the footsteps of the hairs above them, that weeks ago were cosmetically insignificant and are now shaping up as terminal hairs.
> 
> Dut is a very powerful drug, and I am a very good responder to it I guess. The process of thickening or regaining hair with hair loss treatments is very very slow, and it has always been for me in the past. But not with Dut, everything is happening fast. I'm truly shocked.


 Happy to hear that you are getting good results. What's your current regimen except dut?

----------


## 25 going on 65

> Do you order your dut from inhouse?
> 
> What dose/frequency?  I'm ready to take the plunge.


 I get mine from a pharmacy. Got an rx for it. I should warn you it is $400+ for a 3 month supply....Aames said he got blood work done and his InHouse dut seemed to be working well, his  DHT was very low. But I am paranoid about going outside of licensed pharms for some reason so I just use brand name Avodart
I take .5 mg every day.




> Dut is a very powerful drug, and I am a very good responder to it I guess. The process of thickening or regaining hair with hair loss treatments is very very slow, and it has always been for me in the past. But not with Dut, everything is happening fast. I'm truly shocked.


 Glad to hear you have good results. I have not been impressed with mine so far but it has only been 3 months so I just need to be patient.

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

> Happy to hear that you are getting good results. What's your current regimen except dut?


 Thanks. Fin 1.25mg and Rogaine twice a day.




> Glad to hear you have good results. I have not been impressed with mine so far but it has only been 3 months so I just need to be patient.


 What has happened so far? Slowed down, stopped hair loss, shedding?

Do you use Rogaine/minoxidil 2x daily? I think that's very important even for dut. When I was using fin+minoxidil I didn't get results fast, it took like 8 months to see new hairs pop up. Fin alone got me nothing at all, except stopped/slowed down the hair loss, which in my case is nothing. But Dutasteride+Rogaine are really good together.

----------


## 25 going on 65

> What has happened so far? Slowed down, stopped hair loss, shedding?


 The thing is my hair loss was stopped on fin/keto. When I started dut I had more/better hair than when I started fin 2.5 years before. Since starting dut I do not know if anything has changed....like I said I suspect I may have taken a slight hit in density in my hairline corners. & then there are all these little blond vellus hairs that do nothing cosmetically, but they are growing almost to the point of my juvi hairline (not totally sure if they were there before or if I am just looking closer now)




> Do you use Rogaine/minoxidil 2x daily? I think that's very important even for dut. When I was using fin+minoxidil I didn't get results fast, it took like 8 months to see new hairs pop up. Fin alone got me nothing at all, except stopped/slowed down the hair loss, which in my case is nothing. But Dutasteride+Rogaine are really good together.


 All I take is fin+dut+keto. I really want to see what results minox could give me but I experimented with Kirkland's for about a week once and did not react well, I think I was allergic or something. Also people have these stories about their skin getting worse on minox....has that been your experience? I am OCD about image so that kind of thing makes me paranoid  :Frown:

----------


## BigThinker

Well, guys, I didn't pull the trigger on the dut.. yet.

Do you guys think it is more reasonable to wait longer,or to just get on it?

However, I _do_ need to order some keto.  Can someone link me to the shampoo they order?  I'll add that I really don't care for how my current 2% keto shampoo  leaves my hair right after use, but realize that may be a necessary evil.

----------


## BigThinker

Also, I got my hair cut super short today.  I think it's alright, but goddamn I am not crazy about the shape of my skull -- would strongly prefer to keep my hair.

Let me know what you think about the dut and keto...

----------


## JimmyJones

> Well, guys, I was just having one of those days.  Was in the brightly lit bathroom at work and saw the left side of my hairline (the side I typically aggressively part and comb to the side) was looking see through as ever.
> 
> It all of a sudden hit me.  I'm sitting here counting the days until my dermatology appointment, and I don't even know if my dermatologist (who is a totally chill sweetheart) is going to prescribe me the 5mg Finpecia pills I am hoping to start taking.  I realized, I'd just as well cancel the appointment, order 5mg Finpecia from inhousepharmacy (Cipla brand), and take matters into my own hands.
> 
> So, here we are.  I paid a meager $27 for 10 pills, which I will cut into 8ths, start taking every other day for the 3 months, and then every day afterwards.  I havn't cancelled my derm appointment just yet, but will once the pills arrive so that my derm can fill my time slot in with someone else.
> 
> I'm just sick of the thinning in my frontal lobe especially, and seeing the miniaturized hairs fall out every day.  The hairs that fall are miniaturized 80% of the time.  While I will admit my density looks a bit better than it did ~1.5 months ago, it's still not where I want it.
> 
> Just looking for a little support here, guys.  I don't want to be setting up $60 follow-up appointments for eternity.  I don't want to just hope she prescribes me 5 mg pill.  I'm over it.  I can see the roots of my hairs turning blonde.  It's time to start popping the pill and worry about finishing my Master's and going full-time with my employer instead of my hair.  If the fin doesn't fix it, I'll buzz my head and taper off of the pill.
> ...


 wow, you're actually a very very lucky man - be grateful for what you have, you look like a regular guy without a hair problem. if I had your hair I'd be dancing every day. Look on the bright side, you could be like me with a 'clown style' puffy hair all around but going in the middle. Imagine the clown in the simpsons but with dark brown hair instead. worry about it 10 years down the line when the frontline has receeded to the back line..

----------


## JimmyJones

> BigThinker,
> 
> You have been on Finasteride for less than two months. 
> 
> Do you think this is long enough to determine how it is affecting your body, whether that's positively or negatively?


 Somehow I wouldn't worry about negative affects - we eat, drink and inhale more crap 24/7 than what is in these tablets. (plus he went on a full bender on St. patties day - far more damage done there then  :Smile: ) So really there can only be a positive side compared to the rest.

----------


## 25 going on 65

> Well, guys, I didn't pull the trigger on the dut.. yet.
> 
> Do you guys think it is more reasonable to wait longer,or to just get on it?
> 
> However, I _do_ need to order some keto.  Can someone link me to the shampoo they order?  I'll add that I really don't care for how my current 2% keto shampoo  leaves my hair right after use, but realize that may be a necessary evil.


 You still might have solid results from fin eventually, it is too early to know yet. On the other hand dut is known to be stronger and tbh I wish I had started it sooner.
The only negatives I can see in dut are the added expense and the lack of knowledge about long term effects. Also I guess the short term sides might be more severe if you get them

I get 2% keto shampoo from the pharmacy, it is some generic brand

----------


## El Nino

> Somehow I wouldn't worry about negative affects - we eat, drink and inhale more crap 24/7 than what is in these tablets. (plus he went on a full bender on St. patties day - far more damage done there then ) So really there can only be a positive side compared to the rest.


 I am sure you're right, you just keep on popping those pills son. I am sure you will be fine, the negative side effects are all in the head.  :Smile:

----------


## Shan

> I am sure you're right, you just keep on popping those pills son. I am sure you will be fine, the negative side effects are all in the head.


 Not very clever sarcasm. Just because you had alleged side effects does not mean everybody will have mental issues like you.

----------


## El Nino

> Not very clever sarcasm. Just because you had alleged side effects does not mean everybody will have mental issues like you.


 I gave his post the contempt which it deserved.

You just keep on trolling, troll.

----------


## Shan

> I gave his post the contempt which it deserved.
> 
> You just keep on trolling, troll.


 If anyone is trolling it's you. Nobody wants to hear about your mental problems.

----------


## El Nino

> If anyone is trolling it's you. Nobody wants to hear about your mental problems.


 Oh, I know nobody wants to read about them, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

And you're not a troll?

You joined a matter of weeks ago, already have over 300 posts, started threads about sex marathons and have called numerous guys "baldie"..

And you think you have any credibility...

P.S. Be honest with your location and change it to Bradford....Troll.

----------


## Shan

Well I'm a lawyer sitting in my office and in my free time my MacBook is logged on to the forums, so I can post anytime I want, does not mean I gave no credibility psycho boy. Just keeping it real.
As for the marathons they were nothing but real.
Bradford, god you're lame

----------


## BigThinker

El_Nino, I'll accept everything you've said as a friendly precaution.  If I ever get sides, I won't have so much pride that I fail to offer them on this forum.  Promise.  Until then, I'm only thinking about ways to bolster my results -- I'm not even the slightest bit worried about sides.  Thanks for your concern, regardless.

*I still am looking for a brand of keto to order on-line that leaves your hair not totally fried, if anyone can suggest something.*  I think I'd prefer *2&#37;*, once a week.  I have no interest in getting prescription generics -- don't have the time and don't want to spend the money on Dr visits.

----------


## El Nino

> El_Nino, I'll accept everything you've said as a friendly precaution.  If I ever get sides, I won't have so much pride that I fail to offer them on this forum.  Promise.  Until then, I'm only thinking about ways to bolster my results -- I'm not even the slightest bit worried about sides.  Thanks for your concern, regardless.
> 
> *I still am looking for a brand of keto to order on-line that leaves your hair not totally fried, if anyone can suggest something.*  I think I'd prefer *2%*, once a week.  I have no interest in getting prescription generics -- don't have the time and don't want to spend the money on Dr visits.


 No worries BT, I was just dealing with the troll and a possible other one.

All the best.

----------


## JimmyJones

> I am sure you're right, you just keep on popping those pills son. I am sure you will be fine, the negative side effects are all in the head.


 Like I said, we ingest far worse than what is in these pills in our daily lives, I stand by it. In all seriousness liver damage is about your main concern for popping any pill, even vitamins. But the effects of 10 cups of coffee or even tea per day have far more damaging effects on the body as a whole. Just because you don't feel or see side effects to what you ingest on a daily basis doesn't mean there aren't any. That's just the way it is. Cancer et al - simple side effects of our poor lifestyles and eating habits. Drinking cow's milk - normal? Nope - are you a cow? You just have to balance what you are willing to accept. I don't drink coffee, don't drink tea, so all in all that saves my insides form damage a lot longer than a regular caffeine drinker and saves my liver too. So taking any meds for hair loss just basically might put me back on the same level as a caffeine drinker - except I'll have hair..  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## 25 going on 65

> *I still am looking for a brand of keto to order on-line that leaves your hair not totally fried, if anyone can suggest something.*  I think I'd prefer *2%*, once a week.  I have no interest in getting prescription generics -- don't have the time and don't want to spend the money on Dr visits.


 Wish I could help you there. For what this is worth, I have been on 2% rx keto for like 3+ years and all it took was one 15 minute appointment with a derm. Never had to go back in for checkups or anything. And you can have the refills mailed to you
My insurance actually covers this stuff (not so with Avodart), so it might be cheaper than you think. Good luck either way

----------


## Aames

Good luck with whatever you decide, BT. About keto, are you you saying that Nizoral fries your hair? I use 2% that I get online twice a week with no issues really.

----------


## BigThinker

> Good luck with whatever you decide, BT. About keto, are you you saying that Nizoral fries your hair? I use 2% that I get online twice a week with no issues really.


 Thanks, breh.  Yeah, it does.  I use generic 2% right now and my hair feels so thin and dry afterwards.  I was wondering if there was any specialty keto shampoos that had other ingredients to combat that?  I'll just keep up with frying my hair once a week - no big.

----------


## Eromnova

Any side-effects to speak of with the fin man? I'm likely starting it this week, and avoiding all of my hypochondriac tendencies/excessive googling.

----------


## BigThinker

> Any side-effects to speak of with the fin man? I'm likely starting it this week, and avoiding all of my hypochondriac tendencies/excessive googling.


 Only side effect is worrying about my hair less, bro.

----------


## Eromnova

> Only side effect is worrying about my hair less, bro.


 Good to hear.

----------


## JimmyJones

> Thanks, breh.  Yeah, it does.  I use generic 2% right now and my hair feels so thin and dry afterwards.  I was wondering if there was any specialty keto shampoos that had other ingredients to combat that?  I'll just keep up with frying my hair once a week - no big.


 I also think it depends on your hair type. I use Nizoral 2% too and my hair is curly and after any shampoo it is dry like straw anyway, I haven't found one yet in all my years that is good to my hair. After 2 days of washing it's back to looking great but then I have to bloody use Nizoral again  :Smile:  And with Nizoral, leaving it on for 5 minutes really makes your hair like straw (for me anyway). I generally give it the full 5 mins on a weekend when I'm home anyway and it doesn't matter so much and in the week try to just leave it on a couple of minutes. I also find that if i dry my hair and then use hair spray (non - scented) then rinse my hair again and dry it that it gets my hair back to some kind of strawless state. I use hair spray anyway because I use fibres.

----------


## drybone

My experience is that I am a garden variety user. Small side effects that went away. Normal shed that made my thin area up top even thinner  :Frown:  

Need to wait 1 year to see the results. Patience is a biotch  :Frown:

----------


## BigThinker

Wanted to provide an informal update on a couple things -- I plan to do a more formal update at the end of the month (~4 months finasteride mark).

*Hair style:*
I've reverted back to my old hairstyle that I abandoned in February due to insecurity about how it looked.  This is partly due to motivation as a result of new growth, as well as wanting to just "own" my hair as opposed to hiding behind the "messy bangs" look.
[see pics]

*Shedding:*
I previously reported my shedding had stopped, but I'm still shedding a bit I've decided.  It's not as bad as it has been in the past.  Similarly, 90&#37; of the hair I'm losing is totally miniaturized or tapered and blonde towards the proximal end (white bulb end).

I'm trying not to read into it to much, but I do frequently have to read threads about shedding being a "good sign" to lift my spirits.

*Sides:*
The prostate ache has come back probably 2-3 occasions in the last couple months, but it's whatever.

My chest is no longer warm and itchy, which was a cause of extreme anxiety at the latter part of the last month.  I'm not sure why it came or left, but I've been keeping a close eye on my pecs.  I've got to say, I'm getting decent gains in the gym and it could be attributed to an overall  healthier life style.

No scalp itch still, aside from a couple occasions where I was lifting hard or in some sort of highly stressful situation.

No issues with my dick to report, except what feels like boosted libido (relative to ~2-6 months ago).

*
Regrowth!*
For what it's worth, I have a lot of hair sprouting up in my hair line (which is the only place I can really look to).

I've got a long way to go, but to see these initial hairs sprout up is truly a blessing.  Unfortunately, I'm having a hell of a time getting them to show up on my phone camera, so I apologize for that.  But, if you look closely you should be able to see some of the longer ones.

This is legit the first time I've been able to pull my hair back and have my hairline lined with sprouting hairs, similar to what you would see on a girl or guy with perfect hair -- that non-stop production of new hairs to counter-balance the normal loss of hair.
[see pics]

*Conclusion:*
Only been on fin since Mid Feb and I'm motivated to keep going.  Getting serious about lifting weights has really removed a lot of my stress and anxiety.

----------


## drybone

Good post Big Thinker

I have been on it since Jan 30th and after an initial shed, my hair looks fuller and thicker but its only just been a few days that I really noticed. 

Keep us updated. Your story is inspiring for me  :Smile:

----------


## BigThinker

Hairs popping up outside and in hairline.  They're predominately thick, dark hairs.  Still not sure what to make of them.  Haven't had new hair at hairline in some time.

Sorry for low quality photo.

----------


## BigThinker

Here are 3 comparable pics for each time frame, baseline and 4.5 months.

Frankly, my hair _feels_ thinner, and it is certainly harder to style than I can ever remember.

As previously mentioned, I have a handful of hairs at the hairline, but really I don't know what to make of them.

My frontal and temporal lobes are just absolutely destroyed.  I'm starting to wonder if those more T-sensitive areas are getting beat up by my frequenting of the gym and likely spiked T as a result of DHT inhibition.

Anyways, here are pics.  I'll do a 6 month vs. baseline update.

P.S.  When will the shed hairs that entered telogen phase return!?!?

----------


## hiilikeyourbeard

try ru on the hairline maybe?

----------


## BigThinker

> try ru on the hairline maybe?


 Not really interested in mixing/preparing anything, and not really interested in the inconvenience of topicals.

At this point, I'm just going to have to learn to embrace my soon-to-be-NW3 self.  I'm just really bummed finasteride isn't doing much at 4.5 months.

I'm adding 0.5 mg duta a week in a couple days, so hopefully that helps.

We'll see where I'm at at 6 months I guess.

----------


## goldbondmafia

Honestly, I wouldn't even say your hairline is getting worse bud seriously I looked at your early pictures to more recent pics for like 5 mins I think fin is working for you. Especially cause if it wasn't your hairline would have thinner hairs around it but they are the same thickness as your baseline pics

----------


## BigThinker

> Honestly, I wouldn't even say your hairline is getting worse bud seriously I looked at your early pictures to more recent pics for like 5 mins I think fin is working for you. Especially cause if it wasn't your hairline would have thinner hairs around it but they are the same thickness as your baseline pics


 Appreciate that, but It's for sure a bit worse.

Like I mentioned in the other thread, I'll do a formal 6 month update (in 1 month + 2 days) with a fresh haircut, same lighting, same bathroom, etc.  

Looking back at Feburary '12, it does look like I haven't lost much ground - relying on a grainy cell phone camera.  Who knows, maybe I'd be bald by now without finasteride.

----------


## goldbondmafia

> Appreciate that, but It's for sure a bit worse.
> 
> Like I mentioned in the other thread, I'll do a formal 6 month update (in 1 month + 2 days) with a fresh haircut, same lighting, same bathroom, etc.  
> 
> Looking back at Feburary '12, it does look like I haven't lost much ground - relying on a grainy cell phone camera.  Who knows, maybe I'd be bald by now without finasteride.


 Ye that would be the best bet to check at 6 months with exact same pose, cut, lighting etc. Yours look good though I wouldn't worry, my 6 months is gonna be in December and I am already a bit nervous hoping it will look like my baseline. Wish fin was guaranteed to work so we could take it and move on

----------


## StuckInARut

> I'm just really bummed finasteride isn't doing much at 4.5 months.


 I wouldn't expect much of anything at 4.5 months brah, more like 12-18 months. Hair loss is like one big waiting game; which is what's so painful about most if not all of today's available treatments.

----------


## BigThinker

Start 0.5mg dut / week tomorrow, in conjunction with 1.25 mg fin / daily.

Just ordered Kirkland minox 5&#37; foam off Amazon.  Will start that around the 15th - will apply 1 / day (night, most likely).  

No reason not to pull out all the stops.

----------


## StuckInARut

Good luck brah! I'm interested to see how this works out for you. I had considered using Minoxidil and ordered some Kirkland foam about 6 months ago. I never used it because I read reports from some people that it killed their hairlines. Mine is already fragile so I didn't want to risk for the time being but maybe after a year on Fin I may try it if needed.

----------


## BigThinker

> Good luck brah! I'm interested to see how this works out for you. I had considered using Minoxidil and ordered some Kirkland foam about 6 months ago. I never used it because I read reports from some people that it killed their hairlines. Mine is already fragile so I didn't want to risk for the time being but maybe after a year on Fin I may try it if needed.


 Yeah, my hairline's already shot.  At this point I just want enough to frame my face and not have it be transparent.

----------


## 25 going on 65

> Start 0.5mg dut / week tomorrow, in conjunction with 1.25 mg fin / daily.
> 
> Just ordered Kirkland minox 5% foam off Amazon.  Will start that around the 15th - will apply 1 / day (night, most likely).  
> 
> No reason not to pull out all the stops.


 You already know this, but you need to be prepared for major shedding when you start dut+minox around the same time. It might not be that bad, but the possibility is there.

It is one thing to know it in theory and another thing to live it. My dut shed is not "horrible" but it is definitely significant and has taken a serious toll on my outlook/mood

Good luck!

----------


## BigThinker

> You already know this, but you need to be prepared for major shedding when you start dut+minox around the same time. It might not be that bad, but the possibility is there.
> 
> It is one thing to know it in theory and another thing to live it. My dut shed is not "horrible" but it is definitely significant and has taken a serious toll on my outlook/mood
> 
> Good luck!


 Would you expect it to be different from my fin shed?  At this point, I have mostly given up - just nuking all DHT.

I guess I wouldn't be surprised if minox shedding operates through a different mechanism than dht-inhibition (thoughts?), but fin and dut should be similar?

Btw, popped dut this morning and felt nothing.  No prostate ache or anything (like when starting fin).

----------


## hiilikeyourbeard

after a week and a half of fin my **** went numb and my prostate was aching pretty bad. not sure what to do now

----------


## BigThinker

> after a week and a half of fin my **** went numb and my prostate was aching pretty bad. not sure what to do now


 My prostate ached pretty bad the first two weeks.  I was pretty concerned, but it went away.

----------


## hiilikeyourbeard

did your **** go numb? my prostate can ache all it wants but that is something I can't work around

----------


## BigThinker

> did your **** go numb? my prostate can ache all it wants but that is something I can't work around


 I don't think so.  To be blunt: If it is or was more numb, it wasn't enough to interfere with me using it.

Try lowering the dose?  I always told myself that was one of the things that would make me drop it right away - scary, I'm sure.

----------


## hiilikeyourbeard

I'm already taking 1/8 of a proscar every 3 days. dunno how much lower I can go

----------


## BigThinker

> I'm already taking 1/8 of a proscar every 3 days. dunno how much lower I can go


 Better get a professional involved, my friend (if you don't feel comfortable riding it out).  All I can say is my sides have subsided or I'm subconsciously lying to myself about them.

Best regards.  Let us know how everything turns out.

----------


## hiilikeyourbeard

thanks a lot man I appreciate it

----------


## 25 going on 65

> Would you expect it to be different from my fin shed?  At this point, I have mostly given up - just nuking all DHT.
> 
> I guess I wouldn't be surprised if minox shedding operates through a different mechanism than dht-inhibition (thoughts?), but fin and dut should be similar?
> 
> Btw, popped dut this morning and felt nothing.  No prostate ache or anything (like when starting fin).


 I think my dut shed has been worse than my fin shed was. I do not remember having much of a shed on fin. However I admit I am watching my hair closer now than I was then, & also in those days (early months of fin) I was rarely sober

----------


## BigThinker

> I think my dut shed has been worse than my fin shed was. I do not remember having much of a shed on fin. However I admit I am watching my hair closer now than I was then, & also in those days (early months of fin) I was rarely sober


 I swear my hair gets rocked when I get wasted.  Being hungover sucks.  Burning a bunch of money sucks.  Potentially making an ass of yourself sucks.  But, losing a substantial amount of your hair in a short period of time? Insufferable.

I'm just not even going to bother trying to gauge if I shed on dut.  At this point  I'm just riding it out.  If I end up shaving my head, I'll for sure use the minox that's on its wayand see if I can't maintain some stubble (probably end up adding minox before that though.

----------


## BigThinker

Just applied minox for the first time.  In a manic state, I ordered a 3 months supply off Amazon and accidentally got liquid.  Was sorta bummed at first, but it was really easy.

My hair was damp from a shower.  I parted my hair in 5 different spots and ran the dropper across the line from front to back. Then I did one run across the hairline.

Wish me luck guys.


======================

Finasteride since 02/20/2013
Dut since 08/04/2013
Minox since 08/10/2013

----------


## BigThinker

20 days on Minox: insane shedding.  2-3 hairs every pull test.

Guess that means it's working.

----------


## Dan26

> 20 days on Minox: insane shedding.  2-3 hairs every pull test.
> 
> Guess that means it's working.


 Same things happenin' to me right now brah. Hopefully the future is friendly to us.

----------


## BigThinker

> Same things happenin' to me right now brah. Hopefully the future is friendly to us.


 Yeah, I pull-tested 6 hairs in one pull -- whoa.  I've been reading sci lit all day for work, so the I've just been watching the hair fall.  They're like 95% miniaturized hairs, so I feel good about it.  And frankly, my  hair looks and feels pretty good today, so I'm not stressing too much.

All this worry and stress isn't going to prevent hair loss -- quite the opposite, most likely.  I can honestly say I'm getting to the point where, if I had to, I could just shave my head and have it be my "look".  I'm increasingly thinking it would be cooler to do it while I still have hair and pretend like it's a fashion thing.

My hair is in the care of finasteride, dut, minox, and zinc pyrithione.  If this doesn't save my hair, I can rest knowing I at least tried.  Also, I just ordered a bunch of sick threads for the fall season - gotta boost out presentation however we can.

Good luck to you too, brother.

----------


## Dan26

> Yeah, I pull-tested 6 hairs in one pull -- whoa.  I've been reading sci lit all day for work, so the I've just been watching the hair fall.  They're like 95% miniaturized hairs, so I feel good about it.  And frankly, my  hair looks and feels pretty good today, so I'm not stressing too much.
> 
> All this worry and stress isn't going to prevent hair loss -- quite the opposite, most likely.  I can honestly say I'm getting to the point where, if I had to, I could just shave my head and have it be my "look".  I'm increasingly thinking it would be cooler to do it while I still have hair and pretend like it's a fashion thing.
> 
> My hair is in the care of finasteride, dut, minox, and zinc pyrithione.  If this doesn't save my hair, I can rest knowing I at least tried.  Also, I just ordered a bunch of sick threads for the fall season - gotta boost out presentation however we can.
> 
> Good luck to you too, brother.


 I feel you dawg. Do what we can, but be accepting of whatever the outcome may be. If your taking action against your hair loss, while still constantly improving in other areas of your life, your on the right track. Personally if I can really slow down or halt it, I'd consider that a bonus at this point.

I'm close to doing the same thing as you man. If i am below baseline in 6 months, I'm pullin' out the razor b.

----------


## 25 going on 65

> My hair is in the care of finasteride, dut, minox, and zinc pyrithione.  If this doesn't save my hair, I can rest knowing I at least tried.


 Wow man. Same as me but switch out the minox for keto & also throw in a bunch of experimental supplements.
You should almost definitely be able to maintain on your regimen. In a year from now you will probably be in good shape. How often do you dut? Is it generic or Avodart?

----------


## BigThinker

> Wow man. Same as me but switch out the minox for keto & also throw in a bunch of experimental supplements.
> You should almost definitely be able to maintain on your regimen. In a year from now you will probably be in good shape. How often do you dut? Is it generic or Avodart?


 Sorry, I didn't see this before.  I was using dut once a week in place of finasteride on the day I would take it.  I did it for three weeks but skipped this most recent week.  It's generic from inhouse.

I haven't decided if I want to keep taking it or just stick to finasteride.  Taking dut caused me to get sides similar to when I started fin, which were temporary (nipple itch, prostate tingle).

Minox shed has stopped.  Was losing hair like absolutely crazy for a week, but they were all miniaturized hairs.  Now the shedding has stopped and my hair quality is good.

I've got some hairs sprouting at the hair line, but they're few and farm between.

I'm excited to see where my hair looks in a year.  I've added cardio almost daily to my life and I feel a lot better about everything.  Circulation feels good and I have kinda shook the fatigue that was hitting me from time-to-time.

Onward to victory.

----------


## Proper

> Sorry, I didn't see this before.  I was using dut once a week in place of finasteride on the day I would take it.  I did it for three weeks but skipped this most recent week.  It's generic from inhouse.
> 
> I haven't decided if I want to keep taking it or just stick to finasteride.  Taking dut caused me to get sides similar to when I started fin, which were temporary (nipple itch, prostate tingle).
> 
> Minox shed has stopped.  Was losing hair like absolutely crazy for a week, but they were all miniaturized hairs.  Now the shedding has stopped and my hair quality is good.
> 
> I've got some hairs sprouting at the hair line, but they're few and farm between.
> 
> I'm excited to see where my hair looks in a year.  I've added cardio almost daily to my life and I feel a lot better about everything.  Circulation feels good and I have kinda shook the fatigue that was hitting me from time-to-time.
> ...


 I'm glad everything is looking good for you dood. You were one of the people whose posts I enjoyed reading the most on this site. Keep on at it!

----------


## Notcoolanymore

> You were one of the people whose posts I enjoyed reading the most on this site.


 Word.  BigThinker and Shan.......and Aames.

----------


## BigThinker

> Word.  BigThinker and Shan.......and Aames.


 I'm in good company.

----------


## BigThinker

7 months finasteride
1.5 months minox 5% 1-2 times daily



I dropped the dut for now.  Using minox twice a day mostly, but occasionally once a day.  Missed a few weekend applications.


Shedding is way down.  Was previously losing tons of miniaturized hairs.  Lots of blonde hairs popping up on hairline.

Overall density is below baseline slightly - especially thin on the cowlick.  Getting hard to style hair, and mostly rocking the boring, extra short, soon-to-be NW3 (if not already) hair cut.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> 7 months finasteride
> 1.5 months minox 5&#37; 1-2 times daily
> 
> 
> 
> I dropped the dut for now.  Using minox twice a day mostly, but occasionally once a day.  Missed a few weekend applications.
> 
> 
> Shedding is way down.  Was previously losing tons of miniaturized hairs.  Lots of blonde hairs popping up on hairline.
> ...


 See stories like this is what scares me.

You started an anti hairloss med and are below baseline?

How do you know the meds accelerated your hairloss via shedding?

----------


## BigThinker

> See stories like this is what scares me.
> You started an anti hairloss med and are below baseline?


 I think so, yes.  Treatment doesn't necessarily work for ever, and I need to invest more time anyways.




> How do you know the meds accelerated your hairloss via shedding?


 I don't know whether or not I've just accelerated my hair loss through shedding and potential non-results.  Why the hell would I care if I go bald in 1 year versus 2 years?  I'm on a long-term treatment; commitment is required.

Infinitely worse than non-results would be not attempting to treat it and spending eternity wondering if I could have preserved my hair but pu55y'd out from trying treatment.

Best case scenario: hair bounces back and I get to stop visiting this website.

Worst case scenario: go bald, get off treament, hit the gym harder, dress nicer, and date older women.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I think so, yes.  Treatment doesn't necessarily work for ever, and I need to invest more time anyways.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know whether or not I've just accelerated my hair loss through shedding and potential non-results.  Why the hell would I care if I go bald in 1 year versus 2 years?  I'm on a long-term treatment; commitment is required.
> 
> Infinitely worse than non-results would be not attempting to treat it and spending eternity wondering if I could have preserved my hair but *****'d out.


 There is a poster called Kirby on here.

He was a solid NW2 before treatment, once he started it, like you, he had a never ending shed which actually caused him to drop below baseline. He has never recovered and mentally he went a bit psychotic. Now he probably wonders what would have happened if he never took fin.

The current treatments may work, may not work. But the fact that they can be inconsistant,means they are garbage.

People who say they dont work forever, in some cases I guess it does work for a long time - Spex is an example of it.

----------


## BigThinker

> He has never recovered and mentally he went a bit psychotic.


 Sounds like a personal problem.  I doubt he was going to remain NW2 barring finasteride.




> . Now he probably wonders what would have happened if he never took fin.


 I'm not a fan of what-ifs.  Given the literature and medical community's consensus, I made the best decision for my situation and am willing to see it through.




> The current treatments may work, may not work. But the fact that they can be inconsistant,means they are garbage.


 Agreed.  But unfortunately I don't have a time machine for the future, so I'll have to endure the present.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Sounds like a personal problem.  I doubt he was going to remain NW2 barring finasteride.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a fan of what-ifs.  Given the literature and medical community's consensus, I made the best decision for my situation and am willing to see it through.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But unfortunately I don't have a time machine for the future, so I'll have to endure the present.


 
Probably not but the point is fin may have balded him further prematurely. Afterall fin messes with one's hormone levels.

It's just sad that hairloss sufferers have very few good options

----------


## Notcoolanymore

> The current treatments may work, may not work. But the fact that they can be inconsistant,means they are garbage.


 Every treatment is inconsistent.  The supposed cures that everybody is waiting for will also be inconsistent.  There will not be a treatment that will work for everybody.  And here is another news flash: Some people will not be able to tolerate the new treatments either.

----------


## Notcoolanymore

> Shedding is way down.  Was previously losing tons of miniaturized hairs.  Lots of blonde hairs popping up on hairline.


 Hopefully this means that you have turned the corner and will start to see some regrowth/improvement.

----------


## 25 going on 65

Kirby's story was very sad but Fin will not make anyone lose hair they would not have lost w/o it

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Kirby's story was very sad but Fin will not make anyone lose hair they would not have lost w/o it


 “When the effects of androgens in the body are lessened, e.g. through lowering DHT or by systemic hormone receptor blockade, the body seeks equilibrium through a process called upregulation. This can take the form of increased hormone production and/or increased tissue sensitivity to the remaining hormones. The reason side effects usually gradually disappear with finasteride is probably due to such upregulation. In a small percentage of individuals, it may be that this process overshoots the mark, resulting in significant hyperandrogenicity. This is marked by such signs as greatly increased facial oil, increased pimples, and greatly elevated libido.* It’s possible that in certain cases such hyperandrogenicity overcomes the hair-protective effect of, say, finasteride, though this does not appear to be the case for the vast majority of people.”
*

----------


## UK_

> There is a poster called Kirby on here.
> 
> He was a solid NW2 before treatment, once he started it, like you, he had a never ending shed which actually caused him to drop below baseline. He has never recovered and mentally he went a bit psychotic. Now he probably wonders what would have happened if he never took fin.
> 
> The current treatments may work, may not work. But the fact that they can be inconsistant,means they are garbage.
> 
> People who say they dont work forever, in some cases I guess it does work for a long time - Spex is an example of it.


 I think this is a great point, something which I've been saying for years but only now are more people starting to clock on.

It also makes me wonder whether the efficacy statements made by Merck (e.g. 9 out of 10 men respond well) are true or lies, given the history of bullshit coming from this company however I would place my bets on the latter.

But hey, maybe it's not lies, they probably just cherry-picked from their best studies, sugared up the stats a bit and voila!  An extra few hundred million added to the balance sheet.

----------


## UK_

> Kirby's story was very sad but Fin will not make anyone lose hair they would not have lost w/o it


 But if that hair was going to stick around for another 2 - 3 years then it could make all the difference, I mean if you're 28 and you're a NW2 for the next 5 years its not as bad as taking fin and then suddenly climbing to a NW3/4 in 6 months only for your dick to stop working develop breast enalrgement lose complete interest in sex to maintain this NW3/4 state until you're 40 - 50.

Believe me, if finasteride was an 'effective' drug, you can bet your ass i'd be on it.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I think this is a great point, something which I've been saying for years but only now are more people starting to clock on.
> 
> It also makes me wonder whether the efficacy statements made by Merck (e.g. 9 out of 10 men respond well) are true or lies, given the history of bullshit coming from this company however I would place my bets on the latter.
> 
> But hey, maybe it's not lies, they probably just cherry-picked from their best studies, sugared up the stats a bit and voila!  An extra few hundred million added to the balance sheet.


 It's why I haven't touched that shit. If my hairloss is slow/stable right now, why play russian roulette.

----------


## UK_

> It's why I haven't touched that shit. If my hairloss is slow/stable right now, why play russian roulette.


 I know man, I tried fin, I got sides and it sped up my hair loss.

I got federally DP'd.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> It also makes me wonder whether the efficacy statements made by Merck (e.g. 9 out of 10 men respond well) are true or lies, given the history of bullshit coming from this company however I would place my bets on the latter.


 It could be that 90&#37; respond well, but there are 10% that dont.

That means if a million men take the drug.  100,000 will not respond well to it - this is still a significant number.

The real trouble with fin is, is the nature of it. You are ****ing around with your hormone levels. At least with histogen, you are targeting specific areas using stem cells, as opposed to completely altering your hormonal system. And as they are a start up, they will probably pay much more attention to aspects such as safety due to this being their flagship product.

----------


## UK_

So I am in the 2% that get sides and the 10% that doesnt respond.

FML.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> But if that hair was going to stick around for another 2 - 3 years then it could make all the difference, I mean if you're 28 and you're a NW2 for the next 5 years its not as bad as taking fin and then suddenly climbing to a NW3/4 in 6 months only for your dick to stop working develop breast enalrgement lose complete interest in sex to maintain this NW3/4 state until you're 40 - 50.
> 
> Believe me, if finasteride was an 'effective' drug, you can bet your ass i'd be on it.


 Agreed.

In your 20s too, time is so precious. I am representing my company at industry ceremonies, and in the spotlight - photographs are taken. If I started fin, went through a horrible shed it could screw my career up. Just dont have time to waste.

----------


## BigThinker

I actually skipped fin today.  My d*ck and nuts were hanging low all day -- felt good, felt right.  I'm definitely going to get back on it, but I think body needs a break.  I also am going to go back to low, intermittent doses when I go back.  That was my plan in the beginning, but I let the anxiety of hair loss scare me into going 1.25 mg/day instead of respecting my body's hormonal balance.

I'll be honest, the reason I'm doing this is I underperformed with a chick a few weekends ago.  Went to her place after bars, got in her hot tub, and I just felt like my d*ck wasn't hanging low -- it felt tight and sucked in (sorry to be blunt).

Afterwards, it took me forever to get hard.  Granted, it was like 5AM, I had been drinking in a hot tub after a full night of drinking since like 4 PM.  I just didn't feel quite right.  I definitely underperformed, although I did perform thankfully.

Funniest thing about all this is the girl was telling me I had nice hair the next morning and proceeded to touch it.  I was half drunk still and wasn't put off by it at all.  I think I am coming to terms with the state of my hair.

The best thing of all: when I took my shirt off for the hot tub, she asked me if I worked out and was 'mirin my arms -- feeling them up like crazy all night.  Never in my life have I been the guy to get attention for his body.  Felt so good.  The gym is becoming a good addiction that overrides my anxiety from hair loss.

Clothes. Money. Gym.... and, hopefully, hair.  For now, I'm taking a break from finasteride and I don't know if I'll ever get back to 1.25 mg/daily.  Been off one day and I caught myself eye-balling 45 year old women while my unit was feeling stronger than ever.  Placebo effect?  I don't know.  But, I'm willing to error on the side of caution for once.  I'm doing a double dose of minox liquid at night as well until my foam arrives.  At that point, I'll go foam in the morning and liquid at night.

Sorry for the long-winded post.  I was hesitant to even tell this story, but I feel like it's appropriate.

----------


## Dan26

Man, it is a bit worrying how sides can creep up months after taking it. I started low and vowed to stay on this dose for 6 months before deciding to up it. Also had baseline tests done before and just got another set monday (two months in). Interested to see how much 0.25mg/day cut my DHT. I have zero sides so its tempting to increase my dose. 

Thanks for this post broski. It seems like your being honest with yourself, accepting of any possible outcomes, and just letting the chips fall where they may and focusing on what can be controlled. I like that approach, and am trying to do the same.

----------


## BigThinker

> Man, it is a bit worrying how sides can creep up months after taking it. I started low and vowed to stay on this dose for 6 months before deciding to up it. Also had baseline tests done before and just got another set monday (two months in). Interested to see how much 0.25mg/day cut my DHT. I have zero sides so its tempting to increase my dose. 
> 
> Thanks for this post broski. It seems like your being honest with yourself, accepting of any possible outcomes, and just letting the chips fall where they may and focusing on what can be controlled. I like that approach, and am trying to do the same.


 Thanks, man.  I could never confide with my real life friends, so it is nice to get this off my chest somewhere.  

I'm not necessarily blaming fin, but I need a little peace of mind.  I'm horny less often and my orgasms aren't earth-shattering like they used to.  I can't give that shit up.  I've experimented with my body aggressively and it's time to experiment with the flip side of the coin.

I just hope I get another shot at this chick when I'm off fin for a week and not brown-out drunk.  It'll be a different story then.

----------


## Notcoolanymore

> I'll be honest, the reason I'm doing this is I underperformed with a chick a few weekends ago.  Went to her place after bars, got in her hot tub, and I just felt like my d*ck wasn't hanging low -- it felt tight and sucked in (sorry to be blunt).
> 
> Afterwards, it took me forever to get hard.  Granted, it was like 5AM, I had been drinking in a hot tub after a full night of drinking since like 4 PM.  I just didn't feel quite right.  I definitely underperformed, although I did perform thankfully.


 For the love of god no.  Damn!  

How are you handling taking fin?  I mean, do you let all the sides talk get to you?  I am not saying you are not getting sides.  I just know that although I am a big fin supporter on these forums, that sometimes I let the fear mongers get to me.  When I over think about sides that is when I usually get them.  When my mind is busy I never get sides, ever.  Hopefully you can get back on fin soon and continue the fight.

----------


## redy

> Funniest thing about all this is the girl was telling me I had nice hair the next morning and proceeded to touch it.  I was half drunk still and wasn't put off by it at all.  I think I am coming to terms with the state of my hair.


 because right now you're hair is completely fine man, if you get keep the density that's all that matters with your current hairline. obviously you need to do something to maintain that, but I wouldn't be so worried about gains. 

for me, if I can get my density back I'd be so happy I'd start jumping up and down an' throwin' candy and stuff

If I were you I'd take the fin as long as my body allowed and not blow my hormones up with fin and dut... I understand, obviously, what it's like to lose hair but yours seriously is not bad at all and is better than a lot of people. The quality of your hair is great and it's dense. I would say you probably look your best with the messy bangs look due to your head shape, as do I. But I can't do that well anymore because my density is see through on the left side..

----------


## UK_

> Thanks, man.  I could never confide with my real life friends, so it is nice to get this off my chest somewhere.  
> 
> I'm not necessarily blaming fin, but I need a little peace of mind.  I'm horny less often and my orgasms aren't earth-shattering like they used to.  I can't give that shit up.  I've experimented with my body aggressively and it's time to experiment with the flip side of the coin.
> 
> I just hope I get another shot at this chick when I'm off fin for a week and not brown-out drunk.  It'll be a different story then.


 Regarding the side effects, are you under no illusion that these are actual physical changes/not psychological?  If so, quit the drug completely and get a full blood work done - did you have a hormonal panal before taking fin?

Remember that finasteride has a near flat dose response so 0.5mg inhibits almost the same amount of DHT as 1mg and the reduction remains low for several days.

----------


## BigThinker

Whoaaaaaa, guys.  I'm not quitting indefinitely.

I'm taking one week off -- just because.  Give my body a break.  See if I feel different.  I'm_ not_ saying I definitively have physiological side effects.

I've been nothing short of obsessive about treatment (never missed a dose on accident) and the state of my hair.  I'm finally getting results (see pics on previous page), and I'm excited to see it get better and better.

I'm resetting my DHT and taking lower, intermittent doses.  Again, just because.

BTW, my head itched pretty noticeably today, so I'm excited to get back on fin after a week of giving my body a break.

Sorry for any miscommunication.  I don't mean to mislead anyone to think that I got sides and that they shouldn't be on fin.  I believe quite the contrary actually, at least about the latter.

----------


## Notcoolanymore

> Sorry for any miscommunication.  I don't mean to mislead anyone to think that I got sides and that they shouldn't be on fin.  I believe quite the contrary actually, at least about the latter.


 Oh ok, sorry.  I very often skim through all these posts and fail to fully comprehend what is being said.  

Especially since you are finally getting results.  Looks like the tide of the war is starting to fall in your favor.

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## 25 going on 65

> When the effects of androgens in the body are lessened, e.g. through lowering DHT or by systemic hormone receptor blockade, the body seeks equilibrium through a process called upregulation. This can take the form of increased hormone production and/or increased tissue sensitivity to the remaining hormones. The reason side effects usually gradually disappear with finasteride is probably due to such upregulation. In a small percentage of individuals, it may be that this process overshoots the mark, resulting in significant hyperandrogenicity. This is marked by such signs as greatly increased facial oil, increased pimples, and greatly elevated libido.* Its possible that in certain cases such hyperandrogenicity overcomes the hair-protective effect of, say, finasteride, though this does not appear to be the case for the vast majority of people.
> *


 Evidence for hyperandrogenism from fin is very flimsy, especially people having it so bad that it is worse for MPB than taking nothing

To answer UK's post....no one has ever gone NW3-4 in 6 months from fin, who would have stayed NW2 for 5 years w/o treatments

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## UK_

> Evidence for hyperandrogenism from fin is very flimsy, especially people having it so bad that it is worse for MPB than taking nothing
> 
> To answer UK's post....no one has ever gone NW3-4 in 6 months from fin, who would have stayed NW2 for 5 years w/o treatments


 Yes they can, Ive seen many people take fin at NW2 start and then after long shed they end up maintaining a NW3.

Are you saying this doesnt happen?  Do a search on HLH there are many cases.

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## 25 going on 65

> Yes they can, Ive seen many people take fin at NW2 start and then after long shed they end up maintaining a NW3.


 Yes I can believe this, but a NW2 who would have stayed NW2 for 5 years w/o meds is not going to hit NW3-4 in 6 months because of finasteride

Edit- However this brings up something on my mind lately. It does seem like hair in front of the NW2.5-3 region is so sensitive to DHT, not even meds protect it permanently. The one study where the guys on fin maintained there hair for 10 years....pretty sure all those guys were at least NW3. Some were more like NW4+
When I read anecdotes about guys who following the typical MPB pattern, who start to lose ground on fin/dut after maintaining for years, they are usually guys who are NW1-2. & they usually are saying "I see my hair moving toward a NW3"

wtf is happening with this? Are the temples/hairline really just that sensitive to DHT? Or is there a factor in hair loss from that region that does not exist in the NW3 area?

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## BigThinker

Update:  

Back on fin.  I was able to "perform" this last weekend, which  dismissed any concern I may have had about side effects.  As previously mentioned, I'm only 0.625mg EOD for now - just because.

Also, my minox foam came in the mail, so I'm using foam in the morning and liquid at night.  My hair appears ever so slightly below baseline, but that's when it's covered in the greasy minox (which doesn't do it any favors).

Wish I had started both these treatments earlier, as I now have a noticeable amount of regrowth at the hairline (only place I analyze myself).  The regrowth is 70&#37; thin blonde hairs, with the rest being thick dark hairs -- although they may be just naturally cycling hairs.  The run-off from the liquid is even causing little blonde hairs to pop up down at my original hairline, a good inch lower than my current hairline. This stuff works.

Finally, my shedding is almost completely stopped.  I get about 1 hair per 3 aggressive "pull tests".  What a relief.  My advice to all: STICK OUT THE SHEDDING. IT'S WORTH IT.

Will post pics soon, but look back a page or two to see the regrowth I'm getting.

Regards, all.

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## UK_

If you're such a good responder to anti-androgens, why dont you go on Dutasteride?

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## BigThinker

> If you're such a good responder to anti-androgens, why dont you go on Dutasteride?


 I have a packet of Dr Reddys Dutas at this exact moment.  I decided I hadn't given fin a sufficient opportunity and would be prematurely switching over to dut.  That's why.

I decided I'd rather go weaker anti-androgen + minox (forever) than switch to dut.  I know you and handful of other dudes on this site think I'm pushing fin like it has no repercussions, but truthfully I don't to not be messing around with my hormones that much.  I decided it's time to stick to what's proven and give it a sufficient chance.  If I look worse in 4-5 months, I'll be poppin' dut like M&Ms.

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## UK_

Fin maintains/slows.

Dut maintains/grows.

I guess adding minox to fin allows you to get growth too, if I responded well to anti-androgens I wouldnt even be on this site, id have my DUT+Minox in my bindle & be off skipping into the sunset.

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## BigThinker

> Fin maintains/slows.
> 
> Dut maintains/grows.
> 
> I guess adding minox to fin allows you to get growth too, i*f I responded well to anti-androgens I wouldnt even be on this site,* id have my DUT+Minox in my bindle & be off skipping into the sunset.


 That's how I've been the last couple weeks honestly.  Just over this website, over the worry and stress, actually having relationships and growing as a person.

However, this place is like a community of friends I can confide my biggest insecurity with, a place I feel like I can maybe help others, and a place I genuinely get a bit of entertainment from.

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## Notcoolanymore

> That's how I've been the last couple weeks honestly.  Just over this website, over the worry and stress, actually having relationships and growing as a person.
> 
> However, this place is like a community of friends I can confide my biggest insecurity with,* a place I feel like I can maybe help others*, and *a place I genuinely get a bit of entertainment from*.


 This and that.  I think at this point in time I know what can help and what will not.  So mainly here to help the guys just getting started in this BS battle, and to get a few laughs or give a few laughs.

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## hiilikeyourbeard

protip.. get a nice hairline transplant and a system behind it if you're Norwood 4 or worse

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## PatientlyWaiting

> 7 months finasteride
> 1.5 months minox 5% 1-2 times daily
> 
> 
> 
> I dropped the dut for now.  Using minox twice a day mostly, but occasionally once a day.  Missed a few weekend applications.
> 
> 
> Shedding is way down.  Was previously losing tons of miniaturized hairs.  Lots of blonde hairs popping up on hairline.
> ...


 Your hair looks thick and healthy from those pics.

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## BigThinker

> Your hair looks thick and healthy from those pics.


 Thanks.  That's nice to hear.  Honestly.  I've been such a worry wart over this that I can't even objectively grade the state of my hair.

It's weird.  I kinda said **** it, started partying again, expanded my social circle, hung with a couple chicks, and of a sudden my self-perception totally flipped.

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## unk

> Thanks.  That's nice to hear.  Honestly.  I've been such a worry wart over this that I can't even objectively grade the state of my hair.
> 
> It's weird.  I kinda said **** it, started partying again, expanded my social circle, hung with a couple chicks, and of a sudden my self-perception totally flipped.


 Big T, whats happening my hair loss brother from another mother? Sounds like you're on it man, good work. Love your hair by the way.

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## BigThinker

> Big T, whats happening my hair loss brother from another mother? Sounds like you're on it man, good work. Love your hair by the way.


 Hey brother,

Hair is doing fine -- I think.  2-3 hairs on my hand in the shower, passing the pull test about every time.  Hair seems to be doing good.

Decided to abandon taking pictures every month, and instead will take pics at 12 months and 18 months.  I'm now used to using minox, but still skip it as I am currently seeing a chick and not always alone in the evenings -- not really at the point I want her to know I'm on hair loss meds.

Hair quality looks and feels good.  Lots of hairs at the hairline, although they're not all "healthy".  No sides.  1.25 fin a day, minox once or twice a day (mixing foam and liquid usage depending on what activities, or lack thereof, I have going on).

I would actually like to disable my BTT account -- Winston?   Hopefully only temporary so that I can post result pics at the previously mentioned times.  Not spending time on this site has been very beneficial to my life.  Climbing the professional ladder, got a girl I'm digging pretty heavy, and my social life is back full force.

Thanks again for the inquiry.  Hope you, and everyone else, are doing well.

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## Notcoolanymore

> I would actually like to disable my BTT account -- Winston?   Hopefully only temporary so that I can post result pics at the previously mentioned times.  Not spending time on this site has been very beneficial to my life.  Climbing the professional ladder, got a girl I'm digging pretty heavy, and my social life is back full force.


 Success story!

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## UK_

> I would actually like to disable my BTT account -- Winston?   Hopefully only temporary so that I can post result pics at the previously mentioned times.  Not spending time on this site has been very beneficial to my life.  Climbing the professional ladder, got a girl I'm digging pretty heavy, and my social life is back full force.


 I pray for the day this comes for all of us.

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## DannyBoyy7

> Hey brother,
> 
> Hair is doing fine -- I think.  2-3 hairs on my hand in the shower, passing the pull test about every time.  Hair seems to be doing good.
> 
> Decided to abandon taking pictures every month, and instead will take pics at 12 months and 18 months.  I'm now used to using minox, but still skip it as I am currently seeing a chick and not always alone in the evenings -- not really at the point I want her to know I'm on hair loss meds.
> 
> Hair quality looks and feels good.  Lots of hairs at the hairline, although they're not all "healthy".  No sides.  1.25 fin a day, minox once or twice a day (mixing foam and liquid usage depending on what activities, or lack thereof, I have going on).
> 
> I would actually like to disable my BTT account -- Winston?   Hopefully only temporary so that I can post result pics at the previously mentioned times.  Not spending time on this site has been very beneficial to my life.  Climbing the professional ladder, got a girl I'm digging pretty heavy, and my social life is back full force.
> ...


 



Another person FINALLY realizing that going bald is NOT the end and not as bad as people think...well done.

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## BigThinker

Feels good, guys.  It's something you find within yourself.




> Another person FINALLY realizing that going b*ald is NOT the end* and not as bad as people think...well done.


 It's partially that, and it's partially knowing that I'm actively treating.  Stressing out as I wait for the minox and fin to do their thing isn't helpful - quite the contrary.

I feel like spending too much time on this site conditions us to incessantly think about hair loss, when we should be focused on life.

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## Exodus

> Feels good, guys.  It's something you find within yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> It's partially that, and it's partially knowing that I'm actively treating.  Stressing out as I wait for the minox and fin to do their thing isn't helpful - quite the contrary.
> 
> I feel like spending too much time on this site conditions us to incessantly think about hair loss, when we should be focused on life.


 Same conclusion I made. Life is better.

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## Notcoolanymore

> Another person FINALLY realizing that going bald is NOT the end and not as bad as people think...well done.


 I don't think he realizes that at all.  I think his mind is at ease knowing he is doing everything he can to keep his hair.  He isn't giving up he battle with hair loss, he is just not going to obsess about it anymore.

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## DannyBoyy7

> I don't think he realizes that at all.  I think his mind is at ease knowing he is doing everything he can to keep his hair.  He isn't giving up he battle with hair loss, he is just not going to obsess about it anymore.


 


Im sure he realizes going bald is not the end dude hence how he is finally going out socially and got himself a GF etc if thats not proof that going bald is NOT the end then i dont know what is...fair does about when i said not as bad as people think though i suppose if he dont think that that is.

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## BigThinker

You're both right.  Just ordered more fin and minox liquid.  The battle continues on my scalp, not beneath it.

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## Notcoolanymore

> You're both right.  Just ordered more fin and minox liquid.  The battle continues on my scalp, not beneath it.


 Regardless of the reason for leaving.  I think you are doing the right thing.  Stressing about hair loss blows, and such an effin waste of time.  Treat it like you are doing and put it on the back burner.  You will be missed around here.  A level headed poster on these forums is sometimes hard to find.  Hopefully you will drop by every now and then and give your input.

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## unk

Great stuff BT. Yes I believe you are absolutely right about prowling the forums serves to just weigh on your mind the issue. Theres truths in surrounding yourself with positivity vs negativity. I experience joy when I am present in the now, in flow of living, such as participating in sports and hobbies, or hanging out with friends or girls. I dont think forums are redundant, as people do need help here and there are people in a position to help them, but I dont consider myself either of those groups.

I thought you should know I have arranged to meet Dr. Feriduni of Belgium, in London, for an FUE consultation in a few weeks. I will post my experience I should think, I am excited  :Smile: 

Apologies for lack of apostrophe, my keyboard is busted!

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## capitan

Good luck with everything man.

I think no matter what you gotta keep women and gym in your life, hair or no hair. Maybe it's because I'm in high school but that's all I want.

For now I like to remind myself of the statistics whenever I realize my hair has gotten worse in some way. 90&#37; chance? I should be happy about that.

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## BigThinker

> Great stuff BT. Yes I believe you are absolutely right about prowling the forums serves to just weigh on your mind the issue. Theres truths in surrounding yourself with positivity vs negativity. I experience joy when I am present in the now, in flow of living, such as participating in sports and hobbies, or hanging out with friends or girls. I dont think forums are redundant, as people do need help here and there are people in a position to help them, but I dont consider myself either of those groups.
> 
> I thought you should know I have arranged to meet Dr. Feriduni of Belgium, in London, for an FUE consultation in a few weeks. I will post my experience I should think, I am excited 
> 
> Apologies for lack of apostrophe, my keyboard is busted!


 Appreciate the feedback, friend.

Good luck with your consultation and tentative HT.  I'll be interested in hearing your results!





> Good luck with everything man.
> 
> I think no matter what you gotta keep women and gym in your life, hair or no hair. Maybe it's because I'm in high school but that's all I want.
> 
> For now I like to remind myself of the statistics whenever I realize my hair has gotten worse in some way. 90% chance? I should be happy about that.


 Hey, fella.  I'm almost 26 and I still care about my physical appearance as much as I did in high school.  The difference at my age is the women aren't as conceited (most of them anyways) and the "measure of the man" has slowly shifted towards career (income, prestige, identity), stability/confidence, ability to engage in stimulating conversation, etc.

Better believe looks still matter, but less so than in Highschool; I don't think there's a time in our lives where we're judged more on looks than at your age.

I'm certain you'll triumph hair loss regardless of the outcome.  Never lose sight of the long-term; stay diligent in your studies, career development, social skill promotion, etc.

I'll end with saying I'm always very impressed with dudes your age who endure this condition.  It gives slightly older dudes like me a little perspective.

Best.

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## unk

Hey BT,

Just checking in about my consult experience a week or two ago. Hope you are well, whats new? 

So I met Spex and Dr Feriduni in a very luxurious hotel, and it was an absolutely pleasure, both are great fellas. It was a surreal experience, but they were very complimentary toward me and overall a very fun experience. 

I told him I was just here to get his opinion, and that if I were to have something, FUE would be the only option for me. 

The Doc did some examinations on my head, and showed me live images of my hair. My donor was slightly above average, I dont remember exactly, perhaps around 80FU/whatever, though he said it varied between around 60 in one patch and nearer 100 elsewhere, a variation surprised me, but it was cool to know. With lots of 2,3,4 FUs (multiple hairs per follicle) which is good.

He measured in my balding area (2/3 the top of my head) where I was contemplating FUE, and he determined that the distance between native follicles was too small for a procedure, in that to transplant new hair there would cause trauma or transection to the native hair. Basically, I would get newly transplanted hair, but probably lose the native hair, making it nonsensical. He said that to not get him wrong, he would love to just be able to tell me yes, but it is not his recommendation, that if he were me he would not do it yet himself. I really appreciated his sincerity, and I absolutely trust his opinion on the matter.

I dont have numbers to crunch to know how diffuse my balding zones are, but asides from the consultation I appear to myself to be very diffuse, more so than many patients I have seen, though the guys didnt seem to think so. The reality must be that you dont often see FUE in zones 1-4 unless the density is very very low, because most procedures are filling in temples or creating a hairline, both of which are unlikely to have native follicle to damage. He recommended to continue with medication, and we can maybe talk again another time, as he consults in the UK every year. 

Though he had made the diagnosis, he was very willing to reassure me of any questions I had, and we talked for a while. He determined there was no miniaturization on my swirl which also surprised me, as with a shaved head It appears as though my density is low in all norwood zones, but he noted the miniaturization stops around 70% back on the top of my head. 

I must confess I felt mixed emotions. There was slightly disappointment, but relief and optimism too. I feel I was prepared to resolve my hair situation with surgery, whilst I have the money, and to some extent the time. Though I was certainly not looking forward to figuring out how to hide from the world, and work, without an excuse, for 4-5-6 weeks at my moms whilst my head healed. I did however come away very positive about my own situation. Their compliments were heartfelt, not that I feel I need it as I feel I have an accurate grasp on my own situation, but it was appreciated. To top it all off, my crown appears to be safe for now, that is great.

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## BigThinker

> Hey BT,
> 
> Just checking in about my consult experience a week or two ago. Hope you are well, whats new?


 Hey unk, sorry I didn't see this message from a year ago (whoa!).  Hope all is well with you.  Not being able to get a HT due to too dense of hair sounds like a win to me!  Hope that's still the case.  Also, I must say it's great that they turned you away out of best practice.  Let me know how things are.

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## Notcoolanymore

Damn, how it going?  Still on meds?  How's the hair looking?

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## BigThinker

Figured I'd stop in and update my situation.  I've taken a break from these forums, and I must say it was definitely the right move.  I advise anyone who finds themselves incessantly combing the internet, typing in the same searches you have 20 other times, looking for information that doesn't exist, perusing these forums full of anger, anxiety, worry, spite, resent, etc., to take a break and go better yourself in every domain of your life.

Anyways, here's my situation:
~21 months on finasteride
~15 months on minoxidil
~6 months on nizoral and ketocarozole and......

My hair loss isn't stopping.  It just isn't.  I won't say I'm a non-responder, but I'm definitely not a good responder.  Bummer, right?  Sorta.

See, while I was gone from these forums, I had a relationship with pretty, smart girl.  I got my Master's.  I have a job at a company that's grooming me for leadership.  I hit the gym 6 days a week.  I eat good.  I sleep good.  I play guitar all the time.  I party when I feel like it.  Life isn't too bad.  But, the hair, man!

Well, about a month ago I got fed up and went to the hair dress/barber/whatever, and told her to get the clippers.  1 guard on the sides, 2 guard on top.  Pure and utter liberation.  I absolute feared the day my weird head shape would be exposed, but it ended up not being that bad.  Since then, I've bought a pair of clippers, thrown on the 1 guard and went all over with it.  Nothing but compliments, girls rubbing my head and petting on my majestic beard -- seriously.  

So, in previous posts, I had mentioned I took solace in having my crown being nice in full, that I was only dealing with a recessed hair line.  Well, that didn't remain true, and the crown started to go (and I can definitely tell now that I buzz my head).  The treatments just aren't strong enough.  So what's next?

Well, I only used to use minoxidil on the hair line/frontal lobe, but now I have access to my whole head, so I'll give minoxidil a shot on my crown (have 6 months worth to burn anyways).  I may or may not order finasteride again (got about 2 months left).  I will probably continue with the shampoos, since I don't want an oily scalp if I go chrome dome.

That's it, guys.  Hair loss is winning and probably will ultimately win the battle on the scalp battleground.  But, I'll win the war.  It won't bug me anymore.  I'm 27 and have gotten to enjoy hair for a good portion of my life.  

Hope everyone is doing well.  I'll probably be infrequent at best, but look forward to touching with some of you guys who have been here a while.

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## BigThinker

Here's some pics.  Camera is dark, but the thinning up top is pretty damn noticeable, especially in bright light.snapshot(1).jpgsnapshot.jpg

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## Notcoolanymore

Good to see you are winning the battle.  Glad to hear you are taking care of business in all areas of your life. 

BTW, your head shape doesn't look that bad at all.

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