# Men's Hair Loss > Introduce Yourself & Share Your Story >  Going bald, and going back...

## hindsight2020

I recently joined this forum, and after reading ridiculous posts by people like 'fixed by 35', I thought it was time to share my story... my whole story.

Age 18 - In highschool, one of the more popular kids, in the 'jock' crowd. Cut my hair short during basketball season, didn't know it at the time but my temples were definitley thinning. After a summer league game, I got into an argument with a player from the other team... he backed down, but as he drove away yelled out the window "nice receding hairline!". Brushed it off, no big deal its always been thin there, right?

Age 20 - Been in college for a few years now, 15,000 student, I am well known on campus, always out at parties, always meeting girls. My hair has continued to thin, I am aware of it now. My roommate will look at me from time to time and say "wow your hair is thinning!" then look at his in the mirror to make sure his isn't. I started taking propecia, who knows if it was working. 

 I was on the powerlifting team, taking a lot of suppliments (not steroids, but andro to naturally increase my testosterone). Thought maybe the andro was doing it, so I stopped and thought my hairloss did too. I always wore hats to class, thank god I looked good in them. By my junior year I was known as 'blue hat guy' but I didn't care, I had one of the hottest girls on campus as a girlfriend (who didnt mind my thinning hair). If I ever got worried about what my hairloss looked like, I decided it couldn't be that bad right... people still liked me!?

Age 22 - Now its really going... I cant stand it. I decide if you cant beat it, join it. I shave my head during the summer months before school with a straight razor... it definitley looks different! Luckily I would think to myself, I met my girlfriend while I still had hair, and she loved me. I was known as a 'tough guy' at college so no one really would ever say anything about having a shaved head to me... but guys who werent balding shaved thier heads too... it made us look 'tough' as long as I didnt carry myself like I was ashamed of it, even though I was. I would shave as much as I could to reduce the stubble so you couldn't tell where it started and stopped. To make it look like being bald was by choice. Looking at old pics now... I looked handsome, even without hair. I was still confident (at least thats the vibe I put off) but was always wondering if there was anything I could ever do.

Age 24 - Now I am in the coorporate world, got a great job out of college (as a bald guy) ... still was envious of people my age with hair, which seemed to be about everyone I knew. This sucked... I had a lot of money saved up for a big move I was making... more than I needed. On my way home from work one night saw an ad for a HT doctor. Cant hurt to schedule a cosultation right? Within a month I was all set up for my HT (2750 grafts, scar from ear to ear smiling at anyone who walked behind me). 

It grew in fast, really fast! I was so excited that hair was on  top of my head again! Everyone knew, all my clients, coworkers... they thought it looked great. One client asked if he thinks the same procedure could help him. Had a new intern come to work for my company, I worked directly with him. He was balding... eventually asked me for advice on getting a HT. I cant remember what I told him, but I am sure it was more towards getting one than not. The thing is, these people had no idea how much I worried about looking like a fraud. Everymorning waking up and spending a lot of time on my new hair, making sure it sat right, stayed in place, ect ect... 

Age 25 - Now I moved, changed careers, moving up the ladder. Making twice as much as I made before I moved... when I was bald. But I continued to thin around the transplant, still losing hair to shock loss around the donor site, its still noticeable that my hair isnt as thick as someone who has a natural head of hair. My new GF constantly wanted me to take drugs... but thats just denying the inevitable in my mind. Ditched the girl. Played sport all the time, worked out all the time, made lots of money at my new job... this is where things started to change.

Not only was I constantly worrying about what my hair looked like, in wind, in sunlight, in water, when i wake up... the list goes on and on... I was working with a high end exec. who had a horrible wig. My boss at the time was a very very strong willed person, and I remember him saying "That guy needs to embrace his hairloss and get over it..." (about the exec.) Cleary i was doing a good job covering up the fact that my hair on the top of my head was from the back... or was he trying to tell me something too? Still thinning.... and thinning. Was this something I wanted to keep putting money into? 

Age 25-30 - Met my wife, switched careers again, cut my hair really short, even the transplants. I dont know how noticable it is to others, but its clear to me that hair doesnt belong there. Its killing me now. Did I do the right thing and set myself on this path to constant HT's to maintain hair on my head, or was it a big mistake. I stop working out... I stop playing sports, I stop being social. My wife notices. Meanwhiel...

I was recruited by a company to do new start ups (so people dont mind that I am pretty much bald!?!), and unfortunatley in the economy that medical device company went belly up. quickly landed a job in the most uncomfortable industry possible. Pharmacueticals... you wouldn't believe the number over ex-college cheerleaders these companies hire! I always joke about 'why hire me?!'... because of my hairloss. I found the courage to tell me wife during this time... shes ok with it and completely understands... also found the courage to tell her I am through with it.

In the past 2 years I have become increasingly more comfortable with my natural hairloss. I'm not mad anymore. I am not buying into the hype from the media that balding is a bad thing (ever watch late night tv??). Balding is natural, way more natural than moving hair around on your head. Would you rather have someone walk past and think 'another bald dude' or walk past and think 'whats up with his hair?' ...

I am now in the process of getting scar reduction and laser hair removal. Life was good when I was bald, and I never had to worry about what my hair looked like (which now consumes my life... or did). My hair no longer defines who I am in this life. I have realized that 99% of other people don't care that I am bald... I have a beautiful wife, an amazing job in an industry that is stereotyped for hiring goodlooking people, and good friends. Will you be able to tell when its all said and done that I once had a HT, of course (even though the idea is to back to as much of normalcy as possible) ... but I don't care. I made mistakes and now I can tell people about them instead of HIDING them. I can help others make choices. I can go back to living my life ...

Balding can be a debilitating thing, especially when your the first of your peers to experience it. Depending on how strong of a person you are, you think its the end of the world... I did. 

I grew up a lot since then. I read posts on forums from young guys in their early 20s or late teens and think of myself and how I was thinking those same things. Luckily for me, even though my hairloss consumed me (with and without the HT)... I never let it hold me back and never lost confidence in who I was as a person. It saddens me to read posts from other people; 'if I go bald I'll kill myself' ... 'bald people are discriminated against... i have statistics to prove it!'. Wake up people. No one cares that your bald except you. It took me a while to learn that... but I am so happy I did. 

For anyone going through this, or having any questions about HT's or balding in general, I will always be available to talk to.

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## KeepTheHair

Well...


I think balding has a different effect on some people. For you, you were still attractive.

Let me tell you a short story that describes my hair loss:

When I was 16 in school with long hair a LOT of girls always looked at me in class...you know that second look. They would look behind them and them look again. and again. Some even stared at me. They definitely liked me. 

I didn't have the greatest looks but my hair definitely fit my eyes and face/head extremely well. It looked bloody amazing actually. 


Now, those same girls look at me and then give me a smirk as if to say "LOL, what happened!?! haha"

It's extremely annoying... It changed my life completely. I never had it easy and to be honest I have always been insecure about my looks...I always thought I had bad looks. But now I actually HAVE bad looks because of hair loss. I guess there are people that look worse. I still look...eh ok.

But really...you won't BELIEVE the change it made. It's unbelievable.......

I myself am in denial about it. Can it really change it that much?


YES, IT CAN.

It did.


Hair loss completely changed my life. As if I wasn't shy enough already. This is like making everything way worse.


I have had a decent amount of girlfriends in my life. None recently though. Hair loss isn't the only reason for it, but it is the biggest one at the moment. 


I promise you.... 90% of the girls give me that weird smirk now instead of the stare. It is really damn painful. Of course I am out of school now and I was talking about 1 year ago. Now things are even WORSE. If they see my crown now the smirk would be a laugh probably. I look bloody terribly compared to what I looked like!

God it is unreal what a transformation it was for me.



So, you can only speak for yourself in saying it doesn't change how people see you. My brother keeps making "baldy" remarks. My dad has said "You might go bald! But you wont have......." My mother looks at my hair and then does a "lol" smile. It's definitely refering to my hair as well.


And no, this is not all in my head.


If I go bald I have to be the unattractive retard in the group always. That will make me even less social. What the hell? This is so unfair. I looked great with hair...only realizing it now. But now that I lost it. Good god...what the hell...

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## KeepTheHair

Oh, and it's not at all about girls.


It's about being seen for who you are. It is amazing how people lose respect for you because your just "a bald guy". And it is really true. I mean I live this reality and I am sure others do the same.




This is not all in my head...although my head is pretty messed up from all of this.


Oh and I just want to say this again(posted in other thread): I am glad you have had a successful life as a balding guy. But you have to understand that the same thing is not so easy for others.

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## hindsight2020

Your right... because your the first of your peers to start balding you will get some harrassment, its only natural. Your young, your still at an age where people "pick on" you. I was always afraid of that in school... and it happened. People noticed I was balding. But its natural and people have to understand that... I didn't at the time. Think about when your older. Your friends will be balding... you will STILL be balding. Is this something you want to build your whole life around? Or learn to accept it? It took me a HT and 6 years to come to terms with it. Now I am on the other side... now people look at me cause they cant tell why i still have hair up there. I refuse to put more money into it... and I enev have penty of money to do it. But when does it stop? What if I have worse shcokloss this time and now my scars are exposed? With all the informercials you dont think people know what that scar is from when they see it? 

Sure some people you'll see have great results from HT's on this forum... amazing results. But thats a small amount of the population, and 99% are older guys who have completely balded and stopped. They dont have to worry about the future as much as someone under 30 does... If you go for a HT I wish you all the best, but ask your Dr. to garuntee results. He can't. You'll actually have to sign a waiver saying if it doesnt turn out as expected you cant sue. 

Let me tell you, I am not an attractive bald guy, I have a huge forehead and it makes me look older, sure ... but I don't carry myself like it effects me. Sure I am bald/balding... but I am a damn good athlete, very strong and in good shape, great at what I do for a living, very funny, very witty, good designer, good photographer, ect, ect ect... the list of goods goes on and on... as I am sure it does for you too. I know its not easy, and I know your at an akward age where balding isnt as acceptable. But f*ck those people... look them straight in the eye and tell them 'see you in 10 years when your right there with me' (sure some wont be, but maybe you'll get lucky!)...

Its not easy, and it took me a long time to learn... and that might have happened because I am at an age when balding is socially acceptable. But all my HT did for me was give me 3-4 good years of life with hair. Now I have scars and hair on the top of my head, that is supposed to be on the back of my head. If I want to continue pumping money into it for unknown results I can... but f*ck that. Don't buy into this shit. Not at such a young age.

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## hindsight2020

> Oh and I just want to say this again(posted in other thread): I am glad you have had a successful life as a balding guy. But you have to understand that the same thing is not so easy for others.


 Life is what you make it, and if you want to make it all about putting hair on your head so be it. Maybe you'll get lucky and it will be a huge success. 

My life isn't completely successful but thats because of my own doing. I believe I was suffering from depression for the past 2-3 years. I avoided social interaction, I lost relationships, I missed work... but I am ready to quit this sh*t. Things are the way they are now because of choices I have made. I decided to get a HT at a young age. Now I have to live with the fact that it becomes more and more noticeable every day. I am 30 now. And I wasted enough of my life worrying about my hair. Unless your a hair model, hair doesnt get you anywhere in life, and not having it doesn't take anything away. 

If someone doesn't like you because your bald, f*ck them, you dont want some superficial a**hole like that in your life anyways. I haven't run into ANYONE who hasnt liked me becuase of baldness, including women. Sure you get picked on from time to time... but such is life.

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## KeepTheHair

Thanks for the response.

I think you definitely gained "some" wisdom from this.

But like you said...for me it is extremely early to be developing(FAST) a bald spot. I mean 20? Seriously... My brother is 2 years older and my hair looks worse than his.

The whole "see you in 10 years" thing just depresses me even MORE.


10 Years? Id love ten years with hair. By the time im 30 it will be normal and I would found that someone that likes me for who I am. But right now it is just unacceptable to be balding. I have to fight it as much as possible because I would never be able to forgive myself if I just gave in.


I also think because possible cures are coming closer and closer(as always...hopefully this time it's legit)that a hair transplant might be the right option for me. If I can do 1 procedure it should give me a good look. 2 would give me an amazing look.


Pitty I live in a third world country where all the people I know who studied something have much less money than me! I don't have a single friend or know of anyone my age in this country who has more money than me...I don't even have that much. I have a few thousand dollars on my name. I make about $20+/hour. Which is unbeatable in a third world country at my age without any qualifications... 

I won't say what I do but I will say it is over the internet. I can't do it all day since it is not "easy". Usuaully "work" 2-4 hours a day, some days.



This is not enough income to sustain myself and save up for a hair transplant... I already spent probably somewhere near $800 on my hair loss the past 2 months or so. I have a decent supply though, so it should last for awhile.



I wish I had money for a hair transplant or 2...then I could just use finasteride/dutasteride and so on until perhaps there are better future options.

At least I would have an amazing life for at least 5 years... but now everything is just crumbling. I am forced to live a different life...as a different person. Thats how I get treated. I am sorry for being human...and being a socially inclined mammal. I can't help it. Anyone who says "I don't care what other people think about me" is just denying reality. It is who we are.

Everyone cares. Some have it easier though.


I have given people the advice "just work hard" in the things that I am really good at(wont say again since I don't want to be open the possibility of being recognized or something...im paranoid) and that they are trying to get good at.

I would give them "wisdom" but really... some people just have it different. Have different talents. Though I do strongly believe in hard work. 


What I am saying is...the whole wisdom thing just doesn't always apply for everyone. Everyone has a different perspective and in mine hair is a necessity.

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## hindsight2020

But then what happens when you hit 30, and are now on the other side of the fence. Now you had 5 great years with hair, but you continued to bald. Now you have an 'island' of hair on the top of your head and your friends are saying 'let me see your hairline' for other reasons. You now also have scars on the back of your head that will never ever ever go away. Imagine yourself in that position. Will you have the money to continue to get HT's over and over during your lifetime depending on how bald you go?

I thought I was... big mistake.

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## KeepTheHair

I am very certain a cure will be available before I have troubles, is the thing.

That is the reason why I am considering a HT. I don't care about a scar at the back of my head. I will wear my hair long and it will never be noticeable.

If I could have all my hair back I won't care if they know I have a scar and where it is from. I will look better than them and be extremely confident.


I am still considering a HT and will decide later this year.

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## hindsight2020

> That is the reason why I am considering a HT. I don't care about a scar at the back of my head. I will wear my hair long and it will never be noticeable.
> 
> ... 
> 
> I am still considering a HT and will decide later this year.


 Read about shock loss, i suffered from it and lost a lot of hair around my scar... it doesn't always grow back. and is noticeable on the sides of my head. 

Goodluck with whatever you decide!

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## KeepTheHair

Thanks man. Time will tell...


Damn... HT's....so many things can go wrong.

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## [mcr]

I really liked the original post. 

A few things jumped out at me, like the fact that you were getting hot chicks regardless of your level of hairloss. Also, what your boss said about the guy who wears the wig. It's not hairloss that's affecting how people see him, it's the fact that he's trying to hide it that makes him look pathetic.

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## hindsight2020

> Thanks man. Time will tell...
> 
> 
> Damn... HT's....so many things can go wrong.


 Things can go right too... things went very right for me. However, my doctor forgot to stress whats going to happen as my hair keeps falling out. During that time my attitude about balding also changed... just another life lesson.

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## hindsight2020

> I really liked the original post. 
> 
> A few things jumped out at me, like the fact that you were getting hot chicks regardless of your level of hairloss. Also, what your boss said about the guy who wears the wig. It's not hairloss that's affecting how people see him, it's the fact that he's trying to hide it that makes him look pathetic.


 That is the point I am trying to make... hairloss is natural, unfortunately it is more severe for some more than others. 

Covering it up is unnatural... and I am sorry but I can pick out even the best HT from far away. Can people who haven't gone through the process of getting one tell... I don't know. 

Hairloss is only BAD if it's happening to you... no one else gives a sh*t about your hair. And for the people that make comments about your thinning hair, they are just trying to be funny. If they knew how much it effected you they would never say it to your face. 

They only mention it because it isn't that big of a deal, except to you who robably blows it WAAAY out of proportion (like I used to...)

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## [mcr]

To be completely honest, not having hair DOES make people less attractive, if we consider a universal ideal of attractiveness. This affects their confidence and self-esteem, which makes them even less attractive. So it's a double whammy. 

The people who embrace their hair loss and shave their heads or keep their hair very very short are every bit as attractive as people with hair (think Jason Statham, Vin Diesel). 

The only ones suffering are the ones in between. But as we all know, it's hard to let go.

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## crashul

> To be completely honest, not having hair DOES make people less attractive, if we consider a universal ideal of attractiveness.


 It's funny though that in other mammals going bald it's considered a sign of social maturity. They become the leaders. Why can it be like this with humans...? :Smile: 


hindsight2020 ...great first post, i really loved it. Thanks for sharing it with us. 

I wrote a post once about how hair loss actually helped me...gain wisdom and understanding and motivation. But if were to chose...I'd chose hair in a heart beat.

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## KeepTheHair

Something I keep noticing about even the best hair transplants is that there is a thinning line around the head. From the temples around the head. If you view from the top or even sides. That is a sign of a HT. It is probably because no doctor would really bother putting too many grafts at the sides because it won't give as good cosmetic appeal as putting it on the top.


Then again I have seen very magical transplants...some look extremely natural and no way ANYONE could tell a difference.

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## hindsight2020

> Then again I have seen very magical transplants...some look extremely natural and no way ANYONE could tell a difference.


 You can always tell.. sometimes you  just need to be a bit closer. The reasson you can always tell is, natural hair on the top of your head isn't always the same thickness... and there are many very very small hair all around the thicker ones... in a HT, you are only transplanting thick hair back to the scalp leaving out the thinner hairs is what creates the brissle look, which every HT has assuming the head was completley bald naturally.

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## KeepTheHair

No man, I have seen some incredible ones.

I have seen one where the doctor transplanted more towards the back, left the front somewhat thinning. It looked amazing! He didn't have s trong hairline or anything but the overall look was amazing and the hairline still had a ton of thinning soft hairs...looked great. super natural. No way you could spot it. It looked great. I have seen a whole bunch of good transplants. It really can be done. Although your right. If you want a hairline totally restored it won't look 100% natural.


But if I get one I will wear my hair DOWN, not up. So it won't even show or be a problem at all for me.

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## Delphi

Welcome to the forum Hinsight20/20 your attitude is incredibly refreshing and very appreciated. Ive made this place kind of my second home for the past year or so and Ive read some very interesting stories. I love this forum more than any other because people really seem to open up about their feelings here.  Its very real and yes sometimes depressing and a downer, but it can also be uplifting like your posts are. You have certainly gained a lot of wisdom through your experiences and I think your presence here will help a lot of us, maybe even fixedby35 :Smile:

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## hindsight2020

Thanks Delphi ... 

The only reason I joined these boards wasn't for self enlightenment, or to get opinions or ideas from. I've been there and because I've been there I learned a lot about who I am. I joined because right now I am at a point where I no longer ONLY have to deal with balding, but the scars left over from a mistake I made when I was young. I am not saying HT's are bad for everyone, but for people who are thinking of getting them for people who think thier life is over without hair, I would love to tell my story and maybe help them see the other side of things before making such a big decision that will impact the resot of thier lives.

I let my hairloss consume me, it still does to a degree. For the past 10 years I probably didn't go for more than 15 minutes at any given time without worrying about my hair... were people looking?... is my scar exposed?... oh sh*t, its windy today!... Can't go swimming, what will I do after I get out?... This girl is really hot, can she tell I have a HT?.... If I can't wear a hat, I'm not going... the list can go on forever. Things NO ONE ELSE in the world has to think of or deal with, I was making myself miserable over. 

That has come to an end within the past year or so. My hair has had enough of my time, I lost most of my 20's to worrying about it when in reality no one else cared that I was balding. No one stopped being my friend as a result of losing my hair, girls didn't stop flirting with me, employers didn't pass me up because of a thinning hairline... but why did I feel like it was the end of the world and NO ONE has it worse than I did. I hate myself today for letting my life be ruined because I was embarrassed of a natural occuring thing and I feel  like I owe it to myself to make the next 10 years my best.  It has been rare, but situations where hair transplants were the topic, or something I had to talk about is way more embarrasing then going naturally bald. I felt pathetic for trying to cover it up. 

By exposing my scars (getting them reduced too) lasering out my transplants, I feel completely alive again. Do I look as good bald as with hair, no, not at all. But this is who I am. I am proud of me. I want to go into a social gathering saying 'Look at me, I am bald and shave my head as a result' and get it over with... rather than go in looking like I have hair, but as people approach me can they tell? Does it look bad today? Is this light making it obvious I am bald? Did my hair move when I got out of the car? 

The feeling of going back to my natural state is so refreshing. I though getting my hair back (via HT) was the best thing ever... its not even close to how I feel today, and how excited I am to go back to me, worry free. My best years are ahead of me... and I can't wait to actually be able to live without fear on a daily basis again.

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## hindsight2020

@Crashul - 

You know before I ever posted my story, I read yours. Quite inspirational to say the least and reminds me of EXACTLY what I went through. I actually wanted to mention you in my post but was consumed and irritated by negative comments of other members, and forgot =(. I want to take a few minutes to talk about some of your points, and how I relate. I think it is important for positive people to be vocal on this forum, and I enjoy the conversation.

"I used to discriminate, laugh at people who had no blame for what they were like...perhaps just childish jokes but i came to regret them. " - Crashul

I LOVED this statement. As I have said in my story, I was always known as a 'tough' guy throughout my school years. Especially in Highschool and early College years, I jumped at the chance to make snide remarks of someone's shortcomings. Not meaning any harm to them, but to make people laugh... the fat kid standing in the corner, the guy wearing less than fashionable clothes, the way someone talked, the way someone walked, the things people were obviously insecure about. I was ruthless... even while balding... Today, I think of those people a lot. How they felt about thier insecurity, how they delt with it on a daily basis, and how they were probably made aware of it all the time... maybe they were so depressed they ate a lot, maybe they didn't have money for better clothes, they can't help the voice they were born with, just like I couldn't help the hair I was born with. I wish I could go back and actually meet these people, get to know them, find out who they actually are. I stand up for people now. If a friend makes a comment about someone's differences, I am the first to point out that they might not have asked to be that way, they were born like that, and that you too have something about yourself your unhappy with. I enjoy people more, I like to hear thier stories, I like to make them feel important because they are just as good of a human being as I am, if not better. When you are forced to face life with something less than the next person, no matter what it is... less hair, less height, less money... you come out of it a much smarter, stronger, and happier person - if you don't let it ruin you in the process. Make the best of what you have, realize the people the MATTER don't concentrate on those things and live your life. It took me way to long to figure this out, but I am still extremely happy I finally did.

"I'm 24 and I started loosing my hair at 22, but very aggressively. This was the first moment in my life when i seriously took into consideration TIME. I became aware of it, of its passing, of life being short, of aging." - Crashul

It took me a bit longer, and I am envious you figured this out before I did. I was 24, and lost a lot of hair by 22. I made a decision I am now regretting because of the fabricated things I made up in my mind about my balding. No one cared I was balding except me. Looking back all the signs were good. Good job, good friends, good health, amazing girlfriend... but I was so fixated on how I am 'supposed' to look, I didn't believe it. 

I am now 30 and finally figuring it all out, I think. I spent the last 6 years of my life trying to cover up something that didn't effect any part of my life. Trying to cover up something that was natural. Trying to cover up something no one cared about except me. Everyday... every damn day it has consumed my life for the past 10 years. Wether is was the actual balding process or the HT process. No matter how good the HT looked in the begining I still was constantly worried about anything that put me infront of or around other people... even my family. Slowly I started to let go, although it still ate at me everyday. As I have said in my other posts, I gathered up the courage to talk to my wife about it, and about my struggles with it. She LOVES me for opening up to her and says she could care less what my hair looks like because thats not why she fell in love with me. Her dad's bald, her stepfather is bald, some of her Highschool friends have started balding... its natural and she can't believe something so insignificant to who I am was bothering me so much. You only get one shot at life. One shot to make something of yourself. I figured that much out. No longer will I spend weekend nights at home or not go somewhere I can't wear a hat to. No longer will I try to cover up my beautiful, balding head. No longer will I worry about what people I will never see again in my entire life think of me, nor will I care about the opinion of someone who doesn't mean anything to me. Everyone has insecurities, some show in on thier head, some bury it deep down inside thier soul. But not me, not anymore. This life is to short to worry about details that mean absollutley nothing to what I can accomplish in this lifetime. My hair will never hold me back from living again, and thats the best feeling I've had in 10 years.

Crash - I appreciated your post so much, and you are wise beyond your years as far as I am concerned. You achieved things that some people will NEVER achieve in thier entire lifetime... things that people don't even know exist. Everyone looks for the esay way out at some point in thier life, some never find it, and some realize that the easy way out is by not trying to find a way out at all. I would love to hear more about your current situation and accomplishments... I am sure you will go on to do great things in life... with or without hair.

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## heresjohnny

"No longer will I worry about what people I will never see again in my entire life think of me, nor will I care about the opinion of someone who doesn't mean anything to me."

I love that line and couldnt have said it better myself... thanks for taking the time to write you story. I have had up to 1000 employees at points in my current career of 10+ years. I could count the comments about my hair on one hand and they were more questioning than joking. 
I believe that there is nothing I cannot conquer or have the resolve to see through if the goal is truly obtainable.

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## KeepTheHair

But in the end... we are social beings.

Social. We care what others think of us. The judgement of others is what keeps us going. It is a relative concept. You want them to judge you. You want them to acknowledge your good work, your good deeds and your accomplishments in life. So when they judge you negatively you suddenly don't care anymore?

We want to be judged.


But we want it to be positive. Going bald completely changes the "image" people have of you. The way people looked at me prior to thinning is definitely much different than it is now. Thats just the way it is.


I care. But I do realize the fact that it makes more sense not to care. But I am probably too weak minded and immature at 20 to fully "get it". I can't yet. I am balding too bloody soon. It is too much of a transformation...too soon. I have to be someone else.

----------


## heresjohnny

I believe it means more at your age in general because of emotional growth. That is certainly a reality of that whole process. 

So when they judge you negatively you suddenly don't care anymore?

When they walk in my shoes only then will their opinion matter to me. It is what YOU make of it not someone else. Utilize your skills, knowledge and abilities to overcome the obstacle. If you find a developmental opportunity in your life, if you can, work to strengthen it. A man once told me early in my career, "There are things you can control and things for which you have NO control over. Focus on the things you can change, because if you worry about everything you will never be happy.

I hear that in my head every day and it rings true. Isnt life stressful enough already why am I making it worse than it needs to be? 

My heart goes out to you I KNOW what youre going through. How it will affect your life is up to you now and I also know that is not easy to do. 
Do I still feel anxiety over it in certain situations? Sure, I do. It was a decision I made once upon a time to have a HT done and it turned out badly. My coming here has more to do with me than anyone or anything else. I am still not totally convinced and a repair might be worse that what I already have. But I have gained some great insight and valuable information on general care that I can introduce into my life.

----------


## Fixed by 35

> You have certainly gained a lot of wisdom through your experiences and I think your presence here will help a lot of us, maybe even fixedby35


 I'd just like to say I don't expect this to happen. Whilst what Hindsight2020 has to say is interesting, it also includes an awful lot of pop psychology that I've tried and failed to administer to myself before. 

The trouble, perhaps, is that I've taken the time to study what baldness means in modern British society. Whilst a lot of people on this forum show a healthy amount of concern for their own hair loss, I do wonder how observant they have been of the social implications of balding. 

I've worked in a variety of corporate roles for a number of large financial institutions, including one of the big four accountancy firms and within the private banking arm of one of the largest ten banks in the world. I've been doing this for seven years and I've never seen a bald or balding colleague get promoted. Not once. 

I have never known the most senior person in an office to be bald or balding. None of our board of directors at my current employer is bald. Very few of the partners in my big 4 firm were bald or balding. That is statistically ridiculous. 

I've seen bald men in night clubs, almost always with other men or with women much older than they are (when you're balding yourself, you start to realise the real age of a bald man, which is normally about ten years less than he looks!). 

I've followed politics, and watched bald man after bald man fail in high public office. Neil Kinnock, William Hague, Ian Duncan Smith, Michael Howard, just for starters. 

As I've always said, bald men can be successful and they can have a nice life. But they're always in second place, never first. 

Hindsight2020, I can predict your future. Middle management for the rest of your life. No board of directors wants you, because you're bald. Unlucky for you that you work in an image obsessed industry too, because there will be plenty of good looking blokes who will be promoted over you into the nice top jobs. Sorry, that's just how the world of business works.

----------


## Locke

I agree with what 2020 has to say...in theory. It's so easy to say all of these things but to actually do them is a lot harder.

I buzzed my hair today and I really don't like how it looks (I'll post pics later) and nothing will change that. Should I just accept that I think it looks bad and move on? Maybe. But what about people who I meet in public, women who I meet in public whose first impressions are to notice that I'm losing my hair? I just hate having people judge me based on my hairline (in a negative way) and think I'm not as attractive because of something I can't control.

Some days I don't care about it and think it looks good then other days I hate it and feel depressed. It has been an ongoing cycle like this for the past 2-3 years and I'm only 22...

Balding is a naturally occurring process but at 22? COME ON this is bullshit. If I was 30 I could accept it but like other people are saying in this thread, it's much, much harder to cope with when you're young and everyone else has a nice full head of hair and doesn't have to worry about this every single day.

2020 you said you only live once so why is my one chance at life ruined by this!?!?!?!?!! You can always say other people have it worse but you know what? A lot of people have it a lot better too. I shouldn't have to put up with this shit being 22...there are so many other things I could focus my time on.

Also, do you feel that the technology at the time of your procedure was inadequate or it was the doctor? I've seen some pretty incredible hair transplants and as of now my decision is to try propecia + rogaine for a year to see if I can stabilize it then have a HT done next summer.

----------


## Locke

I just went back to my thread and remembered you posted in there 2020. Thanks for being so helpful and I'll definitely contact you if I'd like to talk about a HT.

Most HTs look so good...it's almost irresistible considering the way I feel about my hair now.

----------


## [mcr]

> I do wonder how observant they have been of the social implications of balding.


 The implications aren't as final as you make them out to be. 

Case in point: Silvio Berlusconi. Clearly balding. 73 years old. 5'5". Prime minister of Italy. Banging a 19-year old model. Go tell him he shouldn't be because he's balding.

Short, bald, old, and living a life most of us can't even dream of. In many respects, he's my hero.

By the way he has had a HT. He's clearly not the type to sit there and feel sorry for himself. I guess my point is, hairloss doesn't mean the end of life.

----------


## hindsight2020

@Fixed_by_35 

I think I am just going to accept that you are a negative, cynical, being at this point because of your hairloss. You called my perspective on balding and bald people 'pop pyscology' ... because I have a good outlook on life and don't let my hair or hairloss define who I am or what I can achieve? Even so, you clearly have fell to tricks of modern media and pop culture. You still talk about all this research and studies you have done regarding bald people and how bad they have it. After researching your 'research' on discrimination, I conclude that YOUR research is no more then a google search engine and believing everything HT and hairloss doctors/companies want you to believe.

You continually talk about this discrimination (that you've researched) and how it holds you back. Yes, discrimination exists, but you are also being discriminated for your skin color, hair length, height, weight, facial features, religious views, political views, ethnicity, the amount of money you have/make, ect. What are you doing to combat those discriminations? Are you on ethnicities forums talking about how your backround is stopping you from moving up in the world? Are you on religious forums talking about it? Your hairloss is discriminated no more, no less than those I listed. 

My challenge to you is, stop wasting your time worrying about what you 'think' is holding you back, and go out and do something with your life. You continuously use your hairloss as a scapegoat for your unhappiness for toher things in your life. Clearly your not happy with your job, your lovelife, or your social life becuase you think hairloss is the most unattractive thing that could happen. Did you ever stop to think that your lack of confidence could be the leading factor in whats holding you back. No one like to be around someone that constantly feels sorry for themselves.

When you hit age 50 and look back at your life and realize how much time you wasted structuring your life around your hair, remember me when I told you to 'Take your balls out of your purse and be a man' ... stop blaming everything thats wrong with your life on hairloss.

And 'whilst' I would be offened if I thought there was ANY truth to your prediction about MY life... I'll list some social and financial achievements I've had while balding...

Age 22 - My temples were gone/thinning, as was the back of my head ... I was balding rapidly. 

That same year, I was dating a girl who got a job as a Philadelphia Eagles cheerleader. One of the hottest girls on school campus, even as I was balding. 

I recieved a job offer INTO middle management straight out of college based on my preformance as an intern, while being bald. While practically everyone I worked with had hair. I was promoted. 

Age 22 - 24

This is when I began shaving it with a straight razor. My girlfriend and I broke up due to distance, and I have absolutley NO PROBLEM meeting girls. Was at the beach every weekend, was in the best shape of my life, having the time of my life... as a bald 24 year old guy.

I also was recruited into the medical device field, more the doubling my salary from my previous 'middle management' postition. Thats right, they RECRUITED me... a bald guy, at the age of 24. 

While all those good things were going on, I was still always concious of my hairloss, that I had a big forehead, and that I looked a bit older then I did with hair... I thought it was ruining my life at the time. But... it was all in my head, I was making it up, even though I was having the time of my life, making a ton of money and had my whole life infront of me...  I was BALD! I couldn't get that fact out of my head. BALDING... it wasn't holding me back from anything, but the voices in my head, the hairloss comercials, and the 'free consultations' got me... I HAD to have a HT. And got one. 

Now that I can reflect on what my life was like being bald and having hair. It was exactly the same. No better, no worse... because I was the ONLY ONE that cared about my hairloss. My wife (girlfriend at the time) didn't care. My employer didn't care. My friends and family didn't care (even though I'd get picked on from time to time...) I made this big dramatic thing up in my head. 

And I have been in the business world longer than you. I don't know you personally, but it sounds like your not really going anywhere and you balme it on hairloss. I am really sorry you feel that way, but the reason your not going anywhere is because you gave up. I hope you realize that before its too late.

----------


## hindsight2020

> I shouldn't have to put up with this shit being 22...there are so many other things I could focus my time on.
> 
> Also, do you feel that the technology at the time of your procedure was inadequate or it was the doctor? I've seen some pretty incredible hair transplants and as of now my decision is to try propecia + rogaine for a year to see if I can stabilize it then have a HT done next summer.


 @Locke

No you shouldn't have to focus on it, so why are you?

I wish I could go back to being 22 again, All of my 20's ahead of me... only to be consumed by both hair loss and life after a transplant... During that time I realized no one cared about it except me. Sure I wasn't as attractive to some, but to other I was just as attractive as I ever was. You can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time. Even with hair, not everyone thinks your attractive. I've actually had women hit on me in the past because they like the shaved head look. I still was naive enough to think I 'needed' a HT. 

About my doctor and the procedures, it was done in 2005... and most if not all of the techniques he used are still being used today. My hair looked pretty good for a few years. But here's my thing with HT's. Even when it looked its best .. I still knew it was a HT. No matter how good pictures look on the internet, in person you can still tell (especially if you had a HT) that thick strands of hair dont just start sprouting out of the scalp. You see a lot more good ones on here because mostly, only people with good HT's are posting them. A bad HT is the most embarrassing thing after balding, cause now your caught trying to cover up a thing you were very self concious about. Now people don't look at you cause your young and bald, but cause your young and bald with a bunch of doll hair on your head. 

I don't care if people admit it or not. HT are and look unnatural. The ones that look the best are the ones done to people who have not lost all thier hair. So thier HT covers up the bald spot then thier real hair fills it in or actually is used to cover up the HT. 

Another thing is... the scar is itchy, your whole life you have a scar on your head that itches. The top of your head will grow ingrown hairs (because its not supposed to be there) and those are painful and abnormal, not to mention can get infected. 

Wind becomes your worst nightmare, if your hair moves and allows sunlight on your scalp now your HT looks obvious. Even if other people can't tell, you can... and thats all that matter.

I though balding sucked... covering it up and making sure no one ever finds out is twice as bad. If you think explaining to someone that your 22 and balding is tough... try explaining to them that you have hair that was originally on the back of your head planted on the top of your head to cover it up... 

Also, you'll notice not a lot of people with HT's giving advice on this forum, at least not from what I see. Its a lot of peoplet talking about pictures they saw and how they are thinking about it. Wonder why that is....

----------


## hindsight2020

> I just went back to my thread and remembered you posted in there 2020. Thanks for being so helpful and I'll definitely contact you if I'd like to talk about a HT.
> 
> Most HTs look so good...it's almost irresistible considering the way I feel about my hair now.


 I resonded to this in my previous post, but I'll repeat it because pictures were one of the main reason I got a HT....

Why would people want to show off thier BAD HT. Of course most pictures you look at will be good. But look at them, reaaaally look at them. Notice the lighting, notice the styling, notice the angles. Look at the hairline. Look in the middle of the HT where random thick hairs grow but you can still see the scalp. 

Now, if these people only suffer from minor hairloss (about where you are now judging by your pictures) the HT may look good because they still have A LOT of natural hair to cover up the transplants. But eventually they lose it. Then it becomes obvious. They covered it up. Or.. they keep pumping money into more and more procedures... and who knows what can happen since everyone is different.

----------


## Locke

2020 can you call me everyday and be my personal motivational speaker?

I think you'd do a great job at it, haha. 

I know I have a great personality and have many things going for me and I know I shouldn't worry about my hair but it's just hard to get over. I do feel a lot better about it now though than when it first started. Maybe it's a gradual transition into accepting it.

Not only that but having other people accept it too. I'm a very social person who's hoping to be a doctor, and the interactions I have with every individual I meet means a lot to me so to have them think differently of me because of my hair frightens me I guess. To have them think I'm ugly because of something I can't control hurts.

But as you said I cannot change what others think and I can't please everyone (even though I usually go above and beyond my abilities to do this when I can). Maybe this is just something I have to learn the hard way?

In your story you've said you were very athletic and so maybe these women you were dating attracted to you physically because you were in good shape. But what about guys who aren't physically fit and have no hair? What's there to find physically appealing?  :Stick Out Tongue:  I'm not overweight or anything but I'm not in fantastic shape either. That's why I'm going to use my hairloss as a motivational tool to get in better shape!

----------


## hindsight2020

Its not about 'accepting' it. Its about embracing it. I still have hair, lots of it. But I am sick of being a fraud. I am sick of covering up the fact that I'm covering up my baldness. Thats why I say its twice as bad. I am covering up both being bald and having a transplant. Its brutal. 

Sure, I had a really well built body back then (football, baseball, basketball, power lifting) ... but even though I was balding, I carried myself with confidence. I was more worried about looking 'soft' than looking bald. It took me many years to get over my hairloss, but my mistake was not joining a forum like this to help guide my decisions. 

The reason I am so vocal here is because everything I see posted is very negative toward being bald and hairloss. It almost seems like this is a forum for doctors to prey on bald men. While I am not saying HT's are the worst thing in the world, I want to give people more to think about before jumping into one. 

I know what you feel like balding at 22, I was there. I don't want to see other young people do what I did and end up regretting it.. I have scars on my head that will NEVER go away... and I envy those who can shave thier clean bald heads now. I am on the other side of the fence, wishing I DIDN'T have hair. 

Look at it this way, if your a confident guy and have more going on for you than just your hair, then you don't need cosmetic surgery. As you get older you notice women are more attracted to personality and confidence then they are just looks like they are at a younger age. Life would be easier if HTs were cheap and reversable, but they aren't. 

I consdier myself very lucky. I have a lot of confidence with or without hair. It wasn't always like that ... and if I could've figured out who I was when I was 24 it would've saved me 15-20k. Thats a lot of money for something that you want to undo 5 years later. 

I don't want to tell you to 'hang in there' .. because quite frankly, that advice kind of sucks. I will tell you this though, when i got into my late 20's and saw friends and other peers of mine also starting to bald (like I was when I was 18) ... I was thinking 'FINALLY!' ... Now some of those people shave thier heads like I used to. They look great! Now here I am, stuck with a transplant that I hate myself for. I spent so many hours a day making sure it looks ok and can't wear a hat anywhere because if I have to take it off at any point it will look horrible and flat. I worry about swimming because it weighs the hair down and makes me look horrible. I hate wind. I can't buy a motorcylce with my friends because that requires me to wear a helmet, and again, don't wanna wear that and have to take it off without having a comb and mirrior available. 

A HT was just the begining of a lot more problems for me. Different problems... I wasn't bald anymore. But it was actually worse. Everything else I had to do with, not only my looks but how I felt. To me, it isn't worth it.

Unfortunately for people like fixed by 35, who thinks I am quitting and ugly for being bald. I have chosen to go back to being bald. I don't need acceptance, I already know those aorund me love me with or without hair... thats all that matters to me. People judge me everyday, sometimes its for my hairloss, but sometimes its also for others things... I get judged constantly for having muscles (meat head) ... I am judged for the way I carry myself (people think I am an asshole because I am confident) ... I am judged for not accepting popular views in politics or religion.

Your always going to be judged... but do you REALLY care what people think when you don't even know thier name?

----------


## Fixed by 35

> I will tell you this though, when i got into my late 20's and saw friends and other peers of mine also starting to bald (like I was when I was 18) ... I was thinking 'FINALLY!'


 What a bastard. I wouldn't wish hair loss on anyone.

----------


## StayStrongMen

Hindsight and many others, thank you for taking the time to write these positive posts. Everyday there are several men who realize they are losing their at such a young age and may possibly suffer the worst panic attack in their lives. (man what a horrible day that was lol). 

But it's postings like this that can honestly change someone's day around, or dare I say life around. 

I know it's inevitable that my hair loss will get much worse than it currently is (already pretty bad), but I am ready for it. I too believe that how you carry yourself is key to letting a problem getting the best of you.

Now I post here from time to time to support new hairloss sufferers, and hope my thoughts can be a reason they don't torture theirselves as bad as I did.

Due to my improvements in my personality and my physical shape I honestly think I am more attractive to friends and women post-hair loss compared to pre-hair loss. I would be mega-attractive with hair, but honestly, how many people have perfect hair at 23...not as many as you think! Sometimes I think that it's strange for men to have perfect hair at 30+....almost that women post-college are expecting to find men with a balding head, and those with perfect hair come off as young looking freaks. Back in January I visited college and now that I am more aware of everyone's hair loss, I couldn't believe how many people 18-22 had ascertainable hairloss on the hairline and crown!

You may often notice that a lot of people tend to come and go on hairloss forums. I think it's because they realize how it's really not as big of a deal as they orginally thought. I totally agree that the younger it starts, the harder it is to battle...but in 5-10 years from now, hair loss is going to mean nothing for most of us compared to when we first noticed it. To win the hairloss battle is to stop caring before the 5-10 years pass by, which is very difficult, but it can be done, and is often done by many.

----------


## hindsight2020

> Hindsight and many others, thank you for taking the time to write these positive posts. Everyday there are several men who realize they are losing their at such a young age and may possibly suffer the worst panic attack in their lives. (man what a horrible day that was lol). 
> 
> But it's postings like this that can honestly change someone's day around, or dare I say life around. 
> 
> I know it's inevitable that my hair loss will get much worse than it currently is (already pretty bad), but I am ready for it. I too believe that how you carry yourself is key to letting a problem getting the best of you.
> 
> Now I post here from time to time to support new hairloss sufferers, and hope my thoughts can be a reason they don't torture theirselves as bad as I did.
> 
> Due to my improvements in my personality and my physical shape I honestly think I am more attractive to friends and women post-hair loss compared to pre-hair loss. I would be mega-attractive with hair, but honestly, how many people have perfect hair at 23...not as many as you think! Sometimes I think that it's strange for men to have perfect hair at 30+....almost that women post-college are expecting to find men with a balding head, and those with perfect hair come off as young looking freaks. Back in January I visited college and now that I am more aware of everyone's hair loss, I couldn't believe how many people 18-22 had ascertainable hairloss on the hairline and crown!
> ...


 Thanks for the insight Staystrong, sounds like you have a rational approach to life, which is nice to hear. For me, it wasn't about 'not caring anymore' when it came to my hairloss... it was that I cared about it at all. 

Now I know I know, everyone cares about losing thier hair. But not to this degree, not to as far as some people take it on these forums, not as far as I was taking it. What a waste of my time... I fabricated all these lame thoughts in my head about how bad I had it because of my hairloss when in reality, there were no social or economic indicators to back up these thoughts. Rather, I think it was fueld by modern media telling me what I could and should look like if I use thier products. 

Balding isn't even socially acceptable. Its beyond that. Its such a small part of who you are as a person, it effects such a small part of what you can be or accomplish. But it took over my mind. Its a billion dollar industry fueled by money hungry drug companies and doctors looking to capatalize on the insecurities of men. No one is in this business because they feel sorry for us, they just want our money, and if that means making us feel like sh*t ... then so be it. F*ck them.

----------


## KeepTheHair

hindsight2020,

I am a norwood 3, approaching norwood 3 vertex.


My life changed a huge, huge amount when I started losing my hair. I was treated much differently when I had all my hair.

I disagree with you completely that it effects us in a small manner. It had a huge impact.


Just thinking about it makes me somewhat depressed again...

----------


## level

> Its not about 'accepting' it. Its about embracing it. I still have hair, lots of it. But I am sick of being a fraud. I am sick of covering up the fact that I'm covering up my baldness. Thats why I say its twice as bad. I am covering up both being bald and having a transplant. Its brutal. 
> 
> Sure, I had a really well built body back then (football, baseball, basketball, power lifting) ... but even though I was balding, I carried myself with confidence. I was more worried about looking 'soft' than looking bald. It took me many years to get over my hairloss, but my mistake was not joining a forum like this to help guide my decisions. 
> 
> The reason I am so vocal here is because everything I see posted is very negative toward being bald and hairloss. It almost seems like this is a forum for doctors to prey on bald men. While I am not saying HT's are the worst thing in the world, I want to give people more to think about before jumping into one. 
> 
> I know what you feel like balding at 22, I was there. I don't want to see other young people do what I did and end up regretting it.. I have scars on my head that will NEVER go away... and I envy those who can shave thier clean bald heads now. I am on the other side of the fence, wishing I DIDN'T have hair. 
> 
> Look at it this way, if your a confident guy and have more going on for you than just your hair, then you don't need cosmetic surgery. As you get older you notice women are more attracted to personality and confidence then they are just looks like they are at a younger age. Life would be easier if HTs were cheap and reversable, but they aren't. 
> ...


 Good post hindsight. I think you make some strong points when you say that balding is not the end of the world. I was thinking the same thing the other day; I started comparing hair loss to other diseases-like cancer, aids, amputations, blindness, etc-and I realized that hair loss isn't the end of the world. However, I also sympathize with the guys who are stressing out and want to do something about their hair loss. 

I know some guys don't want to hear this but it's important to weigh-out the pros and cons of HT, before moving forward. Like you've said and experienced, HT is not a 100% natural, and eventually thinning will continue and the results will start becoming noticeable. A lot of guys think that 1 or 2 HT's can solve their problems, when in reality it would probably take 3 to 4 procedures over the span of their life, and about $100,000 (for a reputable doctor)-even then you won't have the look you use to have when you had a full head of natural hair.  Some HT’s are undetectable but that can quickly turn against you, if you don’t have the financial resources to back future procedures. Obviously there are some older guys who are a 2 on the NW scale, that can benefit tremendously from a good HT, but that’s not the case for most of us. 

Luckily there are other avenues that are being explored-Histogen, PRP, etc-that could help without having to undergo a surgical procedure. I'm keeping my fingers crossed but I'm more pessimistic than optimistic because for years we've been on the verge of a breakthrough and yet nothing has occurred. 

I don't think giving up and ignoring the problem is the right way to go. Guys, especially the younger ones, have medicine available to them that can stop or slow down their hair loss, which can buy them time and allow for other technologies to surface. 

On a couple of occasions, I've been really close to giving HT the green light, but the detectable possibilities have deterred me from moving forward. I've consulted with some of the best HT Doctors-Epstein, Bauman, etc-and I’m financially capable, so my decision to not move forward is more on gut feeling than anything else. That's not to say that guys shouldn't consider it, it just not something I'm willing to commit to at this time.  

I am going to start taking propecia and maybe rogaine, so that I at least have some chance of holding on to what I got. I know there's the possibility that they might not produce any results, but at least I can say I tried. 

Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. It’s important for the younger guys to hear testimonies like yours before they act on impulse. Good luck in finding a good repair doctor.

----------


## hindsight2020

> hindsight2020,
> 
> I am a norwood 3, approaching norwood 3 vertex.
> 
> 
> My life changed a huge, huge amount when I started losing my hair. I was treated much differently when I had all my hair.
> 
> I disagree with you completely that it effects us in a small manner. It had a huge impact.
> 
> ...


 I think your absolutley correct, my owrding may have been a bit... off. 

In your world, your own little world in your mind. balding is the worse thing ever. You say your life changed 'huge' when you started balding. Why? Did you get kicked out of school? Did your girlfriend of 5 years dump you? Did you lose your job? Why did your life change huge?

I am willing to bet none of those things happened, not even close. Maybe some comments, but from what I read that you posted, those comments were about as bad and critical as someone asking you what happened after you got a bad sunburn. 

You say your life changed huge... I am willing to bet your life hasn't changed at all, only your outlook has changed. No one likes you more or less, you have no more or less money, ect. Its all a perception. Do you think anyone else is sitting in thier residence right now talking about your hairloss? Probably not. No one else cares that your going bald, you just think they do. Thats why your life changed, its all in your head. 

I know thats not easy to understand, I didn't at your age. But its the truth. Don't buy into the bullsh*t that big hairloss drug companies publish about balding. They don't care if your hair grows back or not, they just want your money. They will say and do anything (indirectly, to make it appear as if they have your best interest in mind) to get you to buy into the fact that your ugly and no one likes a bald guy. 

Like you said, your life changed HUGE... no it didn't, your attitude did.

----------


## hindsight2020

@level

I also sympathize for them. I just dont like when they put others down. Fixed by 35 is a prime exaple when he constantly spews his BS all over these forums saying anyone with hair loss is ugly and wont make anything of thier lives. That such a little b*tch way out.

Its clear hes not happy and that sucks... but why go out of your way to bring other people down with you? Does that make you feel better... to know other people are now more depressed after reading your bullsh*t then they were before they came here? Its pathetic. 

I know not everyone shares my opinion in that a shaved head is a great look. I like it for many reasons that I wont go into because they are only important to me. I know how bad my perception on life was when I started balding, I know how some of these guys feel. But I NEVER gave up on life. 

I hope more than anything that a cure for baldness comes out soon. Without genetically engineering your DNA, I don't think its possible. But I've been wrong before. One thing I do know is I am not going to curl up and hibernate for the rest of my life waiting for a cure... I feel sorry for those that do. I wish them all the best, even fixed by 35.

----------


## Fixed by 35

> I also sympathize for them. I just dont like when they put others down. Fixed by 35 is a prime exaple when he constantly spews his BS all over these forums saying anyone with hair loss is ugly and wont make anything of thier lives. That such a little b*tch way out.
> 
> Its clear hes not happy and that sucks... but why go out of your way to bring other people down with you? Does that make you feel better... to know other people are now more depressed after reading your bullsh*t then they were before they came here? Its pathetic.


 It's called honesty and it's fair comment to pass on what I know and what I have experienced. If you have not, then bully for you. You're a very lucky statistic indeed.

The way you claim drug companies are only after our money is naive and again makes me doubt your credentials. Propecia has been a commercial flop to the extent that they never bothered with Avodart. They carry on selling it simply to meet the demand. Yes, they make some profit from it, but it's insignificant compared to other drugs that they produce. 

Sure, there are snake oil companies, but you can't class them in the same bracket as Merck or Glaxosmithkline Beecham! 

Perception is one of the worst facts about baldness. The reason no one else seems to care is because to them, you're just some tired old bald bloke who isn't worth worrying about. Just a statistic in the background, a second rate man. People don't care, because you are nothing to them. 

Back when I had hair, I found it easy to form a positive relationship with new people. I also had an ability to blag, I must confess. These skills were lost when I lost my hair - explain that one. 

As for hibernating, no way. I'm just banking up the professional qualifications at the moment - it's something positive I can do in solitude which will allow me to be my own boss working from home one day. Oh, and occasionally making the lives of those with hair utterly miserable, should time allow  :Smile:

----------


## StayStrongMen

> Perception is one of the worst facts about baldness. *The reason no one else seems to care is because to them, you're just some tired old bald bloke who isn't worth worrying about. Just a statistic in the background*, a second rate man. People don't care, because you are nothing to them.


 That statistic is 40 million men in the United States (your favorite country) alone, and that's likely the low end, as individuals that are balding but never reach nw 6-7 are probably not included in that number.




> Oh, and occasionally making the lives of those with hair utterly miserable, should time allow


 Get some physiological help, I guarantee you will start appreciating life a lot more than you do now.

----------


## [mcr]

Maybe there is some cultural difference between the UK and US where in the UK bald people are ridiculed. I'd say it's pretty minimal around here, I can't recall making fun of someone, or someone making fun of me in any significant way. Could it be that the British are more inclined to snide remarks?

----------


## KeepTheHair

Guys, save your energy for researching possible solutions to our problems.


Has anyone tried DermMatch yet? Perhaps something else?

Anything? Any other growth stimulants? Any tips about anything at all? Any supplements like MSM and biotin to increase hair growth and quality? Anything?

Come on. Let's focus on what we CAN do...please. Let's not use our energy against each other. 


Oh, and YES our options are limited, but we have a lot of them. Some will work.

----------


## Fixed by 35

> That statistic is 40 million men in the United States (your favorite country)


 I really like the USA, although I've never been there. I know I make the odd joke about the country, but that's the British sense of humour for you. We don't tend to make many jokes about things we really don't like, such as the Iraq war, only things that we do. 

Like any country, the USA has its problems, but these are far outweighed by what is good. It's not the best place to do business because of different laws making it difficult to do things interstate and it's not the most productive country in the world, but nor is Britain! On the plus side, its people are much more friendly (generally speaking) and prepared to stand up for themselves than in the UK, which deserves a lot of respect. Big respect especially to the Democrats for the way they're making BP account for themselves. 




> Maybe there is some cultural difference between the UK and US where in the UK bald people are ridiculed. I'd say it's pretty minimal around here, I can't recall making fun of someone, or someone making fun of me in any significant way. Could it be that the British are more inclined to snide remarks?


 People in the UK might have a lot of laughs at your expense when you first show signs of balding (I was mocked relentlessly by a colleague for the first six months until I pointed out how fat he was to the whole office. I mean, this guy was FAT - at least by UK standards, I know the US invented the word  :Big Grin: ). 

Generally, British people can be very snide. Humour is mostly derived from exploiting the negative element of a positive thing. Hence, I make a joke about fat people in the USA because obesity in the USA is higher than in any other country (negative element of a positive thing). 

A human being is generally a positive thing who will have negative traits. Most you are not allowed to make fun of now, because you'll end up being done for discrimination or work place bullying. Oddly, baldness is an exception (cases of bullying because of baldness have always been lost in Employment Tribunals, whereas bullying for being a bit thick have not). 

As Britain becomes a more competitive place to live and work, this humour is taking on a dark side. Negative traits and, yes, baldness is one of them, will be exploited for gain by others. Surveys by the CIPD regularly show looks sell and better looking people earn more. Fat people are the most discriminated against (at least they can control it), followed by bald people, followed by older people and so on. 

Indeed, this discrimination has not been all bad. It has motivated me to keep up my legal studies and I have gained qualifications in Employment Law already. I look forward to teaching a few people a lesson when I have finished!

----------


## hdude46

2020...i really would love to see you pick out a transplant like u say u can, that is utter bs if it is done by the right clinic.  go to the shapiro medical website or hasson and wong website and come back and make that statement and i will laugh in your face.  im guessing u got your ht done by a chain, it looked ok for awhile, your doc never told u about proscar, and u continued to loose hair.

ht's have changed the lives of many people here.  i really doubt they are as bad as u say they are when i have seen so many videos and pics in all lighting conditions that show otherwise.

----------


## KeepTheHair

I agree, some look very natural. He is just seeing things.

Some real hair also looks weird sometimes at the front etc. I know my hair doesn't look great. I don't have red hair but my hair behaves in the exact same way as that transplant posted in this thread.

Transplants by the right doctors on a head that still has decent hair cannot be spotted.

----------


## Locke

> Guys, save your energy for researching possible solutions to our problems.


 Agreed.

Also 2020, you said post-transplant you were always thinking about people looking at your hair to see if it's a HT and you hated it when it was windy. 

I've had these exact same problems with hair loss when my hair is long because I'm always thinking if I place it a certain way to cover my hair loss, has my hair moved since then? Are people looking at it? Do I need to go to the washroom and fix it?

Did you have the same thoughts pre-HT as well as post-HT such that the HT really did nothing for you? That's an interesting perspective.

----------


## Mick

> Maybe there is some cultural difference between the UK and US where in the UK bald people are ridiculed. I'd say it's pretty minimal around here, I can't recall making fun of someone, or someone making fun of me in any significant way. Could it be that the British are more inclined to snide remarks?


 I don't think so, I'm from the U.K. I highly doubt there is any major difference or any difference at all! There are good people everywhere, there are also assholes everywhere.

----------


## Mick

Hindsight, great posts! You seem to have become a better person through this whole process which is a great thing to hear, and I'm glad you are saying **** it and letting the hair thing go! (if you can just accept hair loss it is the best thing to do, I can't!) good luck dude and again thanks for sharing!!!

----------


## Vanzzzz

Yea 2020, I am currently 24 YO in the early stages of balding, NW2, and am desperate to maintain what I have for 5 years at least. 

Although I think I will have the same mental agony as you, as the norm for all young men losing hair, I think you are a role model for me. Thank you for the positive post!!!

----------


## jooder

Fixed by 35 - Im afraid we are going to disagree!
You say the Uk is a place where bald people are discriminated against, bullied and can never be successfull????
Successfull Bald Uk businessmen - Sir Phillip Green, Theo paphitis (off the top of my head)
Bald men are always seen with older women in nightclubs?? This is just bizarre..... i have always had younger or same age girlfriends and have been bald for years.
People may tease at first(this is human nature)...just as people say hes fat, hes ginger etc etc.
You say that british politicians who are bald are never ultimately successfull? Isnt becoming the leader of their own political party successfull.....or is this classed as middle management to you? They achieved this while having the highly undesirable 'horseshoe' look too!

----------


## gmonasco

> CEOs say being bald doesn't impede success and, given a choice, it's better to be bald than short. So widely held is this conventional wisdom among top executives that when asked to choose, most CEOs say they'd take 2 more inches of height over a full head of Robert Redford hair.
> 
> As smart as they are, CEOs have been known as a group to get it wrong. It now appears that was the case just months ago when they almost universally said they didn't see a recession looming. Could they also be collectively clueless about hair vs. height?


 http://www.usatoday.com/money/compan...ald-ceos_N.htm

----------


## mark-1

> Balding is a naturally occurring process but at 22? COME ON this is bullshit. *If I was 30 I could accept it* but like other people are saying in this thread, it's much, much harder to cope with when you're young and everyone else has a nice full head of hair and doesn't have to worry about this every single day.


 When I was early 20's I used to believe this too. Now I'm 32 I am finding that I still feel just as bad about it as I did then. This is a horrible disease for sure.

Why do we bald anyway? What is the natural point of it?

----------


## canigetawitness

OP that was awesome how you broke down your story.  great read.  when I hear stories like yours; I get hesitant about an HT.  anyway, posting pics soon.

----------


## [mcr]

> Why do we bald anyway? What is the natural point of it?


 I will answer your question based on what I was able to gather about current evolutionary theory. These are not facts, just the best I could find as to why men go bald. And I'm not saying I looked hard. I am not a scientist.

Any genetic trait that spreads does so because it provides an advantage. Thus, women are attracted to men who are tall for example. Being tall provided many advantages, such as an edge in combat, bigger physical presence for protection, etc. Therefore, people across the globe generally get taller, unless there is disease or malnutrition, etc. 

Women today are still attracted to taller guys, even though it provides little to no advantage in today's society. No one's getting attacked by mountain lions but the attraction mechanism is running firmware dating back 100,000 years. 

Now the theory about hair loss is that it made a man look older, therefore past his prime, past the stage of competing with other males, and more likely to be respected an as older member of the tribe. 

Remember, this is at a time when people didn't have facebook to remind them about your age and birthday. It is also a time when older members had a lot of power, and a lot of say in who lives and who dies and how resources are distributed.

Losing your hair makes you look older and ironically makes you more attractive, meaning you have survived disease in your childhood, survived the stage of being a young warrior without getting killed, meaning you are strong, and are now an esteemed member of the tribe who likely has the resources to have offspring and feed and protect them. The women aren't really attracted to you, they are attracted to your status.

And so in one fell swoop evolution gave you a huge advantage. Look at it like winning the lottery.

And so the first few balding guys found themselves blessed with this major advantage, while still in a stage of high sexual activity, and started hooking up with all the babes.

Fast forward to today, you and I are here tearing our atrophying hair out. Looking "old" no longer says "chief of the tribe" or "upper management material" like it did back in the day, it just means you're old.

The good news is that the trait survives because it's not a dealbreaker. Women still weigh other attributes about a man's mating worth. Other reasons might be because people were getting married and having kids at a younger age a few years back, probably before hair loss started or got to an advanced stage at least for some.

Sorry about the long post, but this sums up the theories I was able to gather while reading about this subject. It does not by any means contain any scientific facts. The above could turn out to be entirely false. That's how theories work.

Edit: Just make things clear I need to add this part.

If women were attracted to tall men and still are today, doesn't that mean they should still be attracted to bald guys?

No. Women were attracted to tall guys because they wanted their _genes_, meaning they want their kids to be tall and strong also.

In the case of bald guys, they were attracted to their _status_. Women are STILL attracted to status; it's just that looking old is no longer associated with it. For instance, being famous today gives you a high status. Therefore, Danny DeVito can bag more chicks than an average guy who is simply tall because even though Danny is short and bald, he is very famous (in a positive way). High status = survival, and it beats any other attribute any day of the week.

----------


## Fixed by 35

Here's a few questions to mull over: 

1) A lot of people on this site say that hair loss does not affect a man's success with women. I know women who won't go out with men because they don't have enough hair. How many women do you know who won't go out with men because they have a full head of hair? 

2) A lot of people say appearances don't matter and that it's shallow to worry about hair. So why do they all desperately follow the fashion of shaving their heads? It doesn't matter so why bother.... right? 

3) They also say that baldness doesn't affect career prospects. But we know people don't elect bald Prime Ministers or Presidents. So why do they suddenly become more altruistic when they recruit?

----------


## seatown

> Here's a few questions to mull over: 
> 
> 1) A lot of people on this site say that hair loss does not affect a man's success with women. I know women who won't go out with men because they don't have enough hair. How many women do you know who won't go out with men because they have a full head of hair? 
> 
> 2) A lot of people say appearances don't matter and that it's shallow to worry about hair. So why do they all desperately follow the fashion of shaving their heads? It doesn't matter so why bother.... right? 
> 
> 3) They also say that baldness doesn't affect career prospects. But we know people don't elect bald Prime Ministers or Presidents. So why do they suddenly become more altruistic when they recruit?


 you're such an idiot that I don't even want to reply to your stupid comments

----------


## KeepTheHair

You clearly get very bitter when you see the general consensus here about shaving your head = ugly and you just happen to shave your head.


Your only denying a reality.

----------


## Fixed by 35

> you're such an idiot that I don't even want to reply to your stupid comments


 Because you can't. Can you?

----------


## Vanzzzz

> Here's a few questions to mull over: 
> 
> 1) A lot of people on this site say that hair loss does not affect a man's success with women. I know women who won't go out with men because they don't have enough hair. How many women do you know who won't go out with men because they have a full head of hair? 
> 
> 2) A lot of people say appearances don't matter and that it's shallow to worry about hair. So why do they all desperately follow the fashion of shaving their heads? It doesn't matter so why bother.... right? 
> 
> 3) They also say that baldness doesn't affect career prospects. But we know people don't elect bald Prime Ministers or Presidents. So why do they suddenly become more altruistic when they recruit?


 I do not know enough to rebut point 1 and 2, and frankly, from what you posted about you getting married soon, I do not see what you have to worry about. 

As for point 3, I have posted about how Goldman Sachs president is a NW7....

----------


## KeepTheHair

So?

You can't generalize like that. 



...amazing logic, sir.

----------


## Vanzzzz

Why not? You can generalise and I cant? 

Firstly, there was no definition of baldness. Is NW4 - 6 on a 60 year old considered bald? If yes, then look at Putin, ex-president of Russia. Also, there is Berlusconi, who had a hair transplant. Im pretty sure there are several examples of bald leaders, Im just too lazy to search for them.

I do not dispute that baldness will make a man look less attractive, and it will definitely affect your chances with the ladies. But there is really no point beating ourself up over it, since we are already doing the most we can. A negative attitude will not help you and may only serve to make you even less attractive when we already need all the help we can get.

----------


## KeepTheHair

So what are we arguing about.


What im saying is that, despite a few successful bald(term just refers to hair loss) guys....it still makes sense that people with hair will be more successful than those without. Sure you are not completely screwed and some will make it. But generally it is tougher.

I don't have to generalize. For every 1 guy that has a great deal of hair loss that succeeds easily with the ladies or whatever there would be plenty others that have a much harder time because of their hair loss. You use that 1 guy as an example. I don't have to since I have a ton of examples.

Verb	1.	generalize - draw from specific cases for more general cases



I am not generalizing, you are.

----------


## Vanzzzz

I am not arguing about the attractiveness part, but rather the succeeding part. There are plenty of bald people who are highly successful.

I do not see why it make sense that people with hair will naturally be more successful. I may be naive, but unless you are an actor/model, as long as you do not look disfigured, I do not think people will really care about how you look. 

Besides, how do you define success, there are also plenty of guys with hair that never make it to senior management....

----------


## [mcr]

I thought this matter had been settled. Fixed_by_35 is unfortunately right.

Having a trait that is perceived negatively will affect you negatively. Short people make less money than people who are taller. Bald people will also be negatively affected to a certain degree. Either due to the way they are perceived by others, or due to lower self-esteem. Doesn't matter. Hair loss sucks for a reason.

Take a bald man and give him hair. He will be happier, feel better about himself, be perceived more positively by others, etc.

If hair loss didn't matter, we wouldn't be here, putting our testicles on the line to save whatever hair we have left. We wouldn't be spending fortunes on HTs.

Yes, hair does matter, but in the absence of a cure, we must deal, the same way short people are out of luck. They just deal.

----------


## StayStrongMen

You can "just deal", or you can live life to the fullest.

You can depress yourself over studies that claim if your bald, short, or fat, that you suck, or you can become comfortable with who you are and become a stand-out in front of your peers.

I know this forum is a mix of newcomers looking for help/optimistic hair-loss sufferes/pessimistic hair-loss suffers. I guess the pessimestic ones will shrug off what say every now and then.

You'd be suprsised how many bald, short, or fat people that are confident individuals out there, that probably have never needed to turn to a forum for support. 

^Not that asking for support is a bad thing, we all need a shoulder to lean on at some point, but you can cry your whole life about not looking like Brad Pitt, or you can be the life of the party, workplace, etc and have people want to be around you regardless of what you look like.

If there was not 1 bald CEO out there, then I would be worried, but there's plenty so all these studies about bald men struggling with their careers can go to hell. I think it has much more to due with how baldness has affected their personalities.

----------


## [mcr]

I am not advocating giving up on life. I am just looking at it from a scientific, statistical point of view. I am just stating facts. The average salary of someone who is 6'2" is higher than the average salary of someone who is 5'7". There was a study done that revealed this.

Your life is what you make of it. But generally, statistically, certain truths remain.

Denying facts doesn't help anybody.

----------


## StayStrongMen

> I am not advocating giving up on life. I am just looking at it from a scientific, statistical point of view. I am just stating facts. The average salary of someone who is 6'2" is higher than the average salary of someone who is 5'7". There was a study done that revealed this.
> 
> Your life is what you make of it. But generally, statistically, certain truths remain.
> 
> Denying facts doesn't help anybody.


 I understand, but I really wouldn't consider these facts just yet. I would appreciate a link to this study. How many test subjects? Did they poll cover a range of demographics? What were the salary ranges used?

Fact: Most men want to be taller, in better shape, and have more hair on their head.

Men who are taller, in better shape, and with more hair make more money...fact? Maybe. I could believe it.

It certainly is NOT a deal-breaker and that if you are bald, short, or out of shape, or a combination of the three, you can easily land a great career with the right mindset. There's too many people without hair, out of shape and below-average height that are making the big bucks.

----------


## [mcr]

I read about that study a few years ago, you're just gonna have to take my word for it or google it. I also remember that the researchers tried to pinpoint the differences between short and tall people which could explain the discrepancy, and they found none except one: self-esteem.

----------


## StayStrongMen

> I read about that study a few years ago, you're just gonna have to take my word for it or google it. I also remember that the researchers tried to pinpoint the differences between short and tall people which could explain the discrepancy, and they found none except one: *self-esteem*.


 Thank you for sharing this.

----------


## jooder

Self esteem is everything...... and unfortunately what many people on this forum lack. Bald = ugly is just an utterly ridiculous concept, however, self criticism and feeling sorry for yourself are highly undesirable traits. 
  The fact that many bald men shave their heads is to make the most of what they are, to take control of the situation. Obviously grown out hair in the horseshoe shape isnt as attractive as a short neat shaved appearence...... although some men can even look good like this....... e.g. billy zane.
  In an ideal world it would be good to have the option of hair or no hair, anything that gives you options is preferable..... but it doesnt curtail your life in any way - unless you let it.
  Some actual opinions here...

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/368741

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...9170604AAGIzDA

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/12208...Postpage2.aspx

Im not saying that all women love bald by any means...... but it is evident that to many it makes no difference at all, and some even prefer it. Of course, these opinions will not change the idea of some (fixed by 35 et al) that we are lepers. Good luck with the pity party : )

----------


## level

> Here's a few questions to mull over: 
> 
> 1) A lot of people on this site say that hair loss does not affect a man's success with women. I know women who won't go out with men because they don't have enough hair. How many women do you know who won't go out with men because they have a full head of hair? 
> 
> 2) A lot of people say appearances don't matter and that it's shallow to worry about hair. So why do they all desperately follow the fashion of shaving their heads? It doesn't matter so why bother.... right? 
> 
> 3) They also say that baldness doesn't affect career prospects. But we know people don't elect bald Prime Ministers or Presidents. So why do they suddenly become more altruistic when they recruit?


 John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Martin Van Buren, James A. Garfield, Dwight Eisenhower-All bald; all American Presidents; all elected by the people.

Other important leaders/figures who were bald:

 Winston Churchill, Mohandas Gandhi, Caesar, Lenin, Socrates, Shakespeare, etc...

The list can go on and on. I'm sure there has been more leaders w/ hair than without, but to say that people won't elect bald Prime Ministers or Presidents is misinforming.

Also, similar to the EU, the US is a union made up of several states. Every State has a Governor that is the leader of that state and elected by the people. They have the same veto power-within their State-as the US president does (w/ the Union). 

Current bald US governors:

Sonny Purdue
Pat Quinn
Mitch Daniels
John Baldacci
Ed Rendell
Jim Douglas
Jim Doyle

There's others with NW 4-5 that could've been added to the list, but I just listed the full-blown bald ones.

----------


## mlao

Your point though not without merit  sited a number of leaders who lived before the twentieth century if you wanted to mention a currant leader you might mention Vladimir Putin.

I am not taking sides in this debate but in today's image driven world people sadly choose the better or at least younger looking person.

We live in a youth driven society and some of the young guys on this forum fell robbed of their youth. So even though some of their rants may seem over the top I for one think it is a good place for them to express the frustration they experience.

----------


## [mcr]

It would also be misinforming to deny that looks matter more today than ever. Would FDR or any president with a disability be elected today?

Let's look at the most recent presidents:
Obama - hair
Bush - hair 
Clinton - hair
Bush Sr - hair
Reagan - hair
Carter - hair

And they were all decent looking for their age, not fat/short/etc.

----------


## level

> It would also be misinforming to deny that looks matter more today than ever. Would FDR or any president with a disability be elected today?
> 
> Let's look at the most recent presidents:
> Obama - hair
> Bush - hair 
> Clinton - hair
> Bush Sr - hair
> Reagan - hair
> Carter - hair
> ...


 I'm not denying that! Therefore, I haven't misinformed anyone. I was just giving facts that contradict fixedby35's post. People come on this forum to get information. It wouldn't be fair for them to read fixed's comment and believe that it's the truth. 

I agree that people with hair have an edge. However, I'm not going stay quite in the face of erroneous information.

----------


## [mcr]

People with hair have an edge not so much because they have hair, but because those who don't let it destroy their confidence. Hair, in and of itself, is pretty useless except to make you look a little younger and prettier.

In other words, if you take two men who are equally confident and comfortable with themselves, and one of them is bald, they would have equal chances of success in every area of life. It's just that the bald one might have a slight disadvantage in the beginning (upon meeting people), but *nothing that force of personality cannot overcome*.

The other thing is, baldness is a cop-out, and you can settle into a comfortable laziness and blame everything on it. I can't swim because I'm bald. I can't find a woman because I'm bald. I can't get a job because I'm bald. I can't _____ because I'm bald. I myself am guilty of these thoughts at times.

----------


## level

> Your point though not without merit  sited a number of leaders who lived before the twentieth century if you wanted to mention a currant leader you might mention Vladimir Putin.
> 
> I am not taking sides in this debate but in today's image driven world people sadly choose the better or at least younger looking person.
> 
> We live in a youth driven society and some of the young guys on this forum fell robbed of their youth. So even though some of their rants may seem over the top I for one think it is a good place for them to express the frustration they experience.


 I agree, mlao. I also think that this is a place where people can vent. But it's one thing to vent and another to make every post about how miserable you are, and then go on to speak about things as if they are 100% correct-without fact checking. Fixed and Keepthehair have close to 1000 posts combined and most of them are negative, to some extent. In other words, they are cluttering every thread with negative comments. 

I joined this forum to hear peoples stories and to get information on hair loss. I sympathize with both Fixed and Keep, but I think they would serve the community better, considering the amount of times they post, by not being so negative.

----------


## level

> People with hair have an edge not so much because they have hair, but because those who don't let it destroy their confidence. Hair, in and of itself, is pretty useless except to make you look a little younger and prettier.
> 
> In other words, if you take two men who are equally confident and comfortable with themselves, and one of them is bald, they would have equal chances of success in every area of life. It's just that the bald one might have a slight disadvantage in the beginning (upon meeting people), but *nothing that force of personality cannot overcome*.
> 
> The other thing is, baldness is a cop-out, and you can settle into a comfortable laziness and blame everything on it. I can't swim because I'm bald. I can't find a woman because I'm bald. I can't get a job because I'm bald. I can't _____ because I'm bald. I myself am guilty of these thoughts at times.


 Well said! We are all guilty of those thoughts. And I'm not immune to it....

I just try not to let it consume me. I have to many people that depend on me-family, wife, dogs, etc. I rather channel that energy towards them, in a positive way.

----------


## Fixed by 35

When people cite examples of bald leaders, nine times out of ten they're people who were elected before the television era. If you think about it, colour TV also makes baldness look worse than black and white TV did, because it makes thinning far more obvious. 

On the rare occasions that bald men succeed (the highest level seems to be US Governor), the other candidate was normally either also bald (that might be how Eisenhower won it); in a party that was deeply unpopular in the region or a crank. Also, in Britain, lots of bald men win seats in the House of Commons, but only because people are voting for their leader, not them personally. 

By the way, a little known fact, Winston Churchill never won the popular vote. He was Prime Minister twice, in 1940-45 and 1951-55. The first time, it was due to Neville Chamberlain losing support in the House of Commons and MPs shifting their support to Winston Churchill. The second time, in 1951, Labour actually got more votes but less seats than Churchill's Conservatives. Both leaders in that election were bald. I'm not actually sure when the last time a bald man beat a man with hair to become Prime Minister in Britain and I'm not sure it's ever been done since the advent of party politics! It certainly hasn't been done since the 19th century. 

It's hard to understand why people are so superficial. I do have a theory about baldness, that it was a genetic mishap caused by inbreeding in early civilisations. Baldness was at some times in history associated with wealth and status, which led me to this theory. If that were the case, it would give a good reason for why ordinary people subsconsciously don't trust bald politicians.

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## jooder

It can grow very tiresome trying to refute points made by 'fixed by 35'.......people give him examples of succesful bald people but it doesnt make any difference - to him baldness is akin to the end of the world.
  I gave examples earlier in this topic of real peoples opinions of bald men...... im sure the sensible people looking at this can draw their own conclusions.
  I guess you can either think 'well im bald anyway....so i might as well get fat and lazy and self pitying because i will never amount to anything' OR you can think 'well im bald.... so i will try and improve the other physical aspects of me.... i'll exercise regularly, get my teeth fixed, take care of my skin and dress smartly'. 
  I know which id choose.

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## hdude46

> It can grow very tiresome trying to refute points made by 'fixed by 35'.......people give him examples of succesful bald people but it doesnt make any difference - to him baldness is akin to the end of the world.
>   I gave examples earlier in this topic of real peoples opinions of bald men...... im sure the sensible people looking at this can draw their own conclusions.
>   I guess you can either think 'well im bald anyway....so i might as well get fat and lazy and self pitying because i will never amount to anything' OR you can think 'well im bald.... so i will try and improve the other physical aspects of me.... i'll exercise regularly, get my teeth fixed, take care of my skin and dress smartly'. 
>   I know which id choose.


 I agree.  Why people even bother trying is beyond me.  This is the same guy who said he was going to kill himself by the time he is 35 if there isn't a cure for baldness.

He wants to blame all of his life's problems on his baldness.  He constantly complains how he is overqualified for his job and he doesn't understand why he won't get promoted but 'people with hair will'.  Well here's a thought, you can have all the diplomas and pieces of paper you want that say you are qualified but if you dont have the interpersonal relationship skills none of that will matter.  I think its a pretty safe bet to say fixed doesnt have these considering the fact that he said he hasn't seen his friends in two years, hasn't made friends with people he works with, and locks himself up in his house and hardly ever goes out when he isn't working.

The thing is this is a forum that is supposed to help people but how can that happen when you have someone like this guy posting a lot of crap like this.  The thing is I think most people would agree with some of his premices that baldness is ugly and in certain parts of life it can set you back.  It is especially hard being young and having to deal with this.  However it is something that can be overcame and anyone who says otherwise is not being honest or realistic.

Luckily today there are medical treatments (rogaine, propecia, nizoral), surgical treatments (hair transplants), cosmetic treatment (dermatch, nanogen, hair pieces), controversial treatments (lasercomb), and new treatments in the pipeline (prp, histogen, ect.) that help us fight this.  

I hope this guy will start seeing things more rationally instead of cluttering the forum with things that support his ridiculous theories and shooting down anyone who tries to present counter examples or talk some sense in him.

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## jooder

Hdude46 - I would agree with everything you said..... except that bald is ugly.......... i guess bald can be ugly depending on the other physical and peronality traits of the individual, but i dont think it can be generalised. There are too many examples of good looking bald men for that to be the case.  On all other points though, i am in complete agreement : )

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## Ironwil

> Hairloss is only BAD if it's happening to you... no one else gives a sh*t about your hair.


 I agree with a lot that you've said, but I have to disagree here. It's a plain fact that men will have an easier time getting women if they have a full head of hair. This is especially true with younger women, say in their 20's. I'm 37, already have a wife and do not suffer from extreme hair loss, so I'm not speaking from an island of self-pity. 

There are a lot of factors that go into how easily a person moves around socially, the most important one being self-image. Another truth (agreeing with part of your meaning here) is that most of the social suffering men go through after hair loss is due to a lessened confidence they feel. Like I said, there are a lot of factors, and getting new hair isn't going to fix everything. Even so, I can flatly state that I hate my thin spot with a vengeance. I'm not sure that I'll elect to get HT done, but I do know that I'd be a much happier man if I could get back to 'normal'. It's not to meet women or increase my social status. I just hate the thin spot.

Really hate it.

One thing that has worked well for me is Minoxidil. I grab the generic version of it at Walmart and have a 3-month supply for $20. It's done a lot to regrow my hair, but the thin spot remains, and the war wages on.

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## jooder

_'It's a plain fact that men will have an easier time getting women if they have a full head of hair. This is especially true with younger women, say in their 20's. I'm 37, already have a wife and do not suffer from extreme hair loss, so I'm not speaking from an island of self-pity.'_

I have been balding for 10 years....im 31 now with a shaven head. I have never had a problem getting girlfriends and have had more girlfriends than many of my friends with full heads of hair.
  I agree that having hair gives you more options.... and certainly less stress in life....so it is therefore preferable given the option. I just dont agree that hair versus bald is so clear cut..... just as a size 8 woman with ginger hair versus a size 12 woman with blonde hair isnt. Its about personal choice.

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## hdude46

> _'It's a plain fact that men will have an easier time getting women if they have a full head of hair. This is especially true with younger women, say in their 20's. I'm 37, already have a wife and do not suffer from extreme hair loss, so I'm not speaking from an island of self-pity.'_
> 
> I have been balding for 10 years....im 31 now with a shaven head. I have never had a problem getting girlfriends and have had more girlfriends than many of my friends with full heads of hair.
>   I agree that having hair gives you more options.... and certainly less stress in life....so it is therefore preferable given the option. I just dont agree that hair versus bald is so clear cut..... just as a size 8 woman with ginger hair versus a size 12 woman with blonde hair isnt. Its about personal choice.


 I have been receding since college and I also have been with just as good if not better looking girls than most of my friends.  To some girls, yes, having hair will matter, but to most, and I'm not just saying this to make people here feel better, but it really doesn't matter that much.  I know four girls pretty well who are drop dead gorgeous, and I mean really really hot, and all their bf's are balding, one pretty badly. This is not to say that if you are out at the bar it might be harder to make that initial first impression if you are balding, but rather that it can be overcome just like a lot of things in life.  

I think younger people are more affected by it since they are statistically in the minority and most of their friends havent been affected by mbp yet.  I think as you get older, you gain more perspective and can deal with it better, especially knowing more and more people are going thru it with you.

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## Ironwil

> I have been receding since college and I also have been with just as good if not better looking girls than most of my friends.  To some girls, yes, having hair will matter, but to most, and I'm not just saying this to make people here feel better, but it really doesn't matter that much.


 Like I was saying, there are many factors that go into the equation. The fact that you did better with girls than your friends with hair doesn't mean that the hair issue wasn't an issue. It means that you, when taken in as a whole, were more attractive to the ladies. This is a good thing, but the only point I was making is that balding men are going to face a steeper hill to climb than men who have a full head of hair. There will always be specific instances that differ, and I wouldn't dispute that at all. I'm speaking in generalities.

I think it's great you do so well with the fairer sex. I've done well for myself, so it's not like I'm saying it can't be done. Only that there are obstacles.

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## Batz32

I've worked in a variety of corporate roles for a number of large financial institutions, including one of the big four accountancy firms and within the private banking arm of one of the largest ten banks in the world. 




I don't know about in Britian, but I have worked for 2 of the big 4 and all the top guys are bald.  All the senior managers are bald and all the partners are bald or have horrendous hair.  I mean accountants are ugly people in general, lets not lie to ourselves by that.  When I started I had a full head of hair and it started to recede and I hated thinking about it so I started to shave it.  I moved up the ladder faster than anyone else I worked with.  

I work hard and I'm very specialized in my field.  I have been able to move on and become a partner in a regional firm, Big 4 required too much time and I like having my own clients.  

As to women, for awhile I wouldn't talk to women because of the hair loss.  However, in hanging out with some of my exs, they all told me they dated me for my personality, being in shape or as one put it my balls.  So I grew my set back dropped them in a wheel barrel and went to town.  When I see a chick I like I go talk to her, and most of the time I get the number and a date.  The other night I was at a bar with some younger new hires who wanted to go out, and one of them was an a really good looking guy.  However, he wouldn't approach women.  So I did it and he winged and had to take the less attractive chick.

2020 is right its not the hair, its the total package.  You may be missing a piece, but everyone is missing something.  

Lastly, if you spend all your time worrying about what people think of your hair you will forget the fact that they are worrying about what you think of them.

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## chewytorch

lol no offense 2020 but it's easy for you to say this now that you're through this phase. Also, you stated that you looked good with a bald head. There are people out there that the only thing that makes them look somewhat attractive is there hair. Once they start losing even a little bit of it, it is noticeable. I am one of those people. Now I don't believe all this crap about "bald people can't be successful, no one will elect bald politicians" because obviously, those kinds of things are all achieved by how smart you are and your skills, not how bald you are. But I do believe that if your hair makes you look attractive, then you start losing it, women will not speak to you as much, your confidence will shoot down, and you will become a bit if not completely anti-social. Just wish someone would reply to my thread and tell me what to do while I still have time  :Frown: .

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## Fixed by 35

If you understand that baldness leads to lower confidence and less attention from women, and it does, then it is a logical conclusion that you will be discriminated against in the workplace and in politics. For example, women's preferences in polls have typically shown that they vote in large numbers against bald candidates (men don't seem to care); so much for the claims on the internet that bald is beautiful! Presumably they display the same discrimination towards bald colleagues in the workplace. 

The trouble is that the theory that women don't mind baldness is a work of fiction. For a start, watch bald guys in public places trying to pick up women; they nearly always fail because women don't even want to speak to them. All other things being equal women will always choose a man with hair, and all other things are equal until a woman knows who you are! As a result, the hurdle for bald men to get women is huge, hence why they seem desperate to get into a relationship if they can get that far (bald men are typically either single or in a long term relationship). Bald men are also typically matched with women far less attractive than they would be if they had hair, or alternatively with needy, demanding, high maintenance women. 

Sure, there's a bald fetish that gets wide currency on the internet, in the same way as 'BBW' women do. It doesn't mean it's the norm.

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## Jack21

If I had a dollar for every time I heard my mother or ex-wife or sister make a derogatory remark about baldness I would be a wealthy man today. All of them are actually quite nice people and I am sure never mean to be hurtful. Its just the way it is. 





> If you understand that baldness leads to lower confidence and less attention from women, and it does, then it is a logical conclusion that you will be discriminated against in the workplace and in politics. For example, women's preferences in polls have typically shown that they vote in large numbers against bald candidates (men don't seem to care); so much for the claims on the internet that bald is beautiful! Presumably they display the same discrimination towards bald colleagues in the workplace. 
> 
> The trouble is that the theory that women don't mind baldness is a work of fiction. For a start, watch bald guys in public places trying to pick up women; they nearly always fail because women don't even want to speak to them. All other things being equal women will always choose a man with hair, and all other things are equal until a woman knows who you are! As a result, the hurdle for bald men to get women is huge, hence why they seem desperate to get into a relationship if they can get that far (bald men are typically either single or in a long term relationship). Bald men are also typically matched with women far less attractive than they would be if they had hair, or alternatively with needy, demanding, high maintenance women. 
> 
> Sure, there's a bald fetish that gets wide currency on the internet, in the same way as 'BBW' women do. It doesn't mean it's the norm.

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## Fixed by 35

I can't blame anyone who makes derogatory remarks about baldness because they're right. It is hideously ugly. I make derogatory comments about baldness all the time too, so why shouldn't they? 

I think society would be better off if it became an accepted truth that baldness was a curse that should be stopped. Then, either a more thorough search for effective treatments would go ahead or efforts would be made to stop bald people reproducing. I would happily be the first in the queue for a vasectomy to play my part in such a crackdown. Wearing wigs might become more acceptable, maybe mandatory, too!

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## chewytorch

So you've pretty much just accepted that you're ugly and useless?

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## Fixed by 35

Ugly, definitely. All bald men are ugly without a doubt. No one's ever been able to provide an example to contradict my view on that. Apparently about 6% of the female population don't mind bald men though (similar sized fetish to men who like BBW women), which means unfortunately there is still the possibility of reproducing. 

I don't think I'm useless but I'd be lying to myself if I didn't understand I was perceived at the very least as odd by others for being so young but balding. Also, let's be honest, the pre-occupation and drop in confidence (which never comes back in full despite what people say) does mean I am less useful than I could be). A few months ago I began working from home in a role which doesn't require any human contact, which means I can obscure my baldness from those who I work for. That lack of contact does help.

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## chewytorch

Well I am incredibly sorry to hear that. I myself could never live my life like that. At least not in my youth years. Fortunately I'm still young so there is a lot of time for medical advances. I really fear to ever be like you one day, (no offense) to ever let the fact that I have no hair ruin my whole social life. If, for me, it ever does get to the point to where I am like you, I just hope I have the balls to kill my self.

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## Fixed by 35

Well, let me be blunt. Having a social life is not something you get to decide for yourself. Old friends are as good as ever, but you'd be amazed how many new people don't want to know you when you're bald.

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## jooder

Its such a shame to visit this forum when fixed hasnt had his medication. Same old.....same old. It doesnt matter how many times bald men on here say they dont have a problem getting women........it doesnt matter how many times bald, successful men are pointed out to him. It doesnt even matter when numerous links are posted which illustrate that many women actually like bald men.
  In his mind, hes ugly, grotesque, a failure, a social leper...........and that must mean the rest of us are too.
  I think everybody knows a guy who never has anything positive to say, constantly begrudges others and makes you wish you had never entered conversation with them in the first place.
  I just hope younger, worried people dont listen to his nonsense.
  Judging from his posts, he hardly ever leaves the house to avoid social contact, percieves himself as ugly and writes negatively on an almost daily basis. The man is obviously depressed.
  I just hope he seeks help for this condition rather than trying to take others down with him.

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## Fixed by 35

You should delve into the academic journals available on the perceptions of baldness if you ever want to know more than what you want to hear. Statistics suggest that the internet lies. 

If you don't believe me, give this experiment a shot. Set up two accounts on a dating website, one with a picture of yourself before you lost your hair and one now. Ensure all other details are the same. Then compare the response rates. This experiment comes with a warning, it will shatter the illusion of the internet's pop psychology and will teach you that, statistically, you lost your chance with about 80% of the women interested in you. At least that was the average of the results of those of us who ran the experiment (although I wonder if that was because we were all in our 20s, I suppose we should just be glad we can attract so many women in their 40s at age 24).

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## jooder

I have previously posted numerous links to real women on dating sites discussing bald men. The response was favourable to say the least. If you would like i can do this again.
  Also, my own experience tells me different. I dont have any trouble getting girlfriends.....and neither do many other 'baldies' who have posted on here.
  You have  posted before that baldness is ugly and grotesque. Now you are saying that having hair is more attractive to women than having none. I agree that some men suit having hair more than being bald, i also think some men look better bald than with hair.
  Having no hair will undoubtedly be unattractive to some.......it will not matter to others, and can also make you more attractive to other people.
  If baldness was ugly and grotesque then i wouldnt have had one girlfriend, there would be no examples of bald men with good looking women and leper like bald men would be unable to mix with society or excel in their careers. Unfortunately, the evidence is stacked against you.
  If your argument was that being bald will turn off some women, then youd be right. Just like if tom cruise got fat or really thin - some women wouldnt find him attractive any more. But thats life, you will never please all of the people all of the time.
  The fact is that bald men have plenty of women to choose from and their baldness will not stop their lifes ambitions one bit.

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## Fixed by 35

If you actually read most of the available forums on the net, you'll find baldness is tolerated at best by most women. Also, a lot of women will say 'bald is okay, but my bf/husband has hair....' etc etc

Now, why don't you try my experiment, or are you worried what the results will do to your self esteem?

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## jooder

Firstly, i have been shaved bald for 12 or 13 years......im now 32......so the only pics i have are of a 19 year old guy, compared to me now at 32. So to try and compare the two would be ridiculous in my mind. I dont think i would be doing myself a favour with a mid 90s hairstyle and a massively outdated fashion sense. I would likely get laughed off the dating site as a fake.
  To refute your point (again).....and prove that some women do find bald men attractive :

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts7055769.aspx

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts629821.aspx

http://www.peertrainer.com/LoungeCom...ThreadID=25941

I could have chose links where the answers are 100 % positive, but i prefer a more balanced view. Either way, its clear to me that bald men are seemingly attractive to quite a few women : )

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## Fixed by 35

It will be wrong of me to further shatter your delusion.

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## jooder

I invite you to shatter my delusion..........problem is, you cant  :Smile:

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## Fixed by 35

Okay. Go and find someone with similar qualifications, personality and intelligence as you, but with hair. Then compare your success, and more to the point how hard you had to work for it. 

There are so many less qualified people who don't work hard who were more senior to me before I quit my job. Their only skill seemed to be getting drunk. That's the life of the hirsute in a nutshell.

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## jooder

In my social group i would say that there may be 8 guys with hair....one is balding.....and im shaved bald. With the exception of one guy, i have had more girlfriends  than any of them.....and regarding looks, i would say that on average i have had just as good looking girlfriends as him too.
  I have never encountered any prejudice job wise. I would say the only negativity comes from young teenagers and work colleagues banter wise. Thats the law of the jungle i guess........
  I think baldness can rule your life if you let it.......for many years it honestly was never an issue to me......and as a result it has not stopped me one bit. In my mind, its the concious and subconcious vibes you give off that allow people to judge you differently.

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## jooder

Fixed - I think your resentment to lack of progression job wise is wrongly directed. If you went to your place of work with the same negative attitude you display here....... then that is more likely to have held you back in my opinion.

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## Jack21

Well, I've been shaved headed for almost one month now and to be quite honest today was just as shitty as the first day I came to work with a shaved head. I have been trying to put on a brave face but after this long with so little change its a pretty damned miserable situation. 

But all of this misery is a result of my having worked here for years with what appeared to be a full head of hair. It is the radical change that has caused this. There are other bald men here who nobody treats the way they have been treating me. My mistake was trying to fight/ conceal it. If I had just gone bald and then shaved my head like the other guys at work I would be fine. Because I did what I did I am now paying an emotional price far steeper than the hair club ever charged. I would pay double, triple, one hundred times that amount to go one day without being treated with utter disdain and derision. 






> In my social group i would say that there may be 8 guys with hair....one is balding.....and im shaved bald. With the exception of one guy, i have had more girlfriends  than any of them.....and regarding looks, i would say that on average i have had just as good looking girlfriends as him too.
>   I have never encountered any prejudice job wise. I would say the only negativity comes from young teenagers and work colleagues banter wise. Thats the law of the jungle i guess........
>   I think baldness can rule your life if you let it.......for many years it honestly was never an issue to me......and as a result it has not stopped me one bit. In my mind, its the concious and subconcious vibes you give off that allow people to judge you differently.

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## Fixed by 35

Does anyone else fear the complements as well as the insults? I hate the idea of getting a buzz cut and being complemented on it for example; I don't want reminding of the fact that I am balding, full stop. Likewise, how would you deal with it if the stories of women asking to rub bald heads that are posted all over the internet were true? I'm be mortfied if that happened to me, I'd have to tell them to **** off and would go home immediately. 

I find the best 'zone' to be in is to appear to do nothing. Everyone can see hair loss bothers me, but it's short enough to be tidy. No insults, no complements. Just blissful silence.

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## jooder

Isnt a compliment a good sign?? I think most people would be happy to receive compliments

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## Fixed by 35

First of all, lying is easy. I used to work in a bank, I both know a lot of insincere people and can be an extremely talented liar. Compliments are the sort of lies that are really easy to tell. I used to find myself lying, or rather complementing, to people in bad situations to make them feel better. I imagine others do the same; baldness and hair buzzing is surely a classic time to say 'like the look' rather than something nearer the truth like 'thank **** you got rid of your thinning hair, you balding bastard' or 'man you look bad, but not as bad as before.' 

Expanding on this, there are a lot of things you don't raise in polite conversation, because you don't want to draw attention to something about a person. For example, if someone has a dirty great wart on their face and they have it removed, you generally don't compliment them on it. Likewise, if someone has to have an arm amputated and they get a false arm, you don't say 'like the look!' I think you get the idea.

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## jooder

> First of all, lying is easy. I used to work in a bank, I both know a lot of insincere people and can be an extremely talented liar. Compliments are the sort of lies that are really easy to tell. I used to find myself lying, or rather complementing, to people in bad situations to make them feel better. I imagine others do the same; baldness and hair buzzing is surely a classic time to say 'like the look' rather than something nearer the truth like 'thank **** you got rid of your thinning hair, you balding bastard' or 'man you look bad, but not as bad as before.' 
> 
> Expanding on this, there are a lot of things you don't raise in polite conversation, because you don't want to draw attention to something about a person. For example, if someone has a dirty great wart on their face and they have it removed, you generally don't compliment them on it. Likewise, if someone has to have an arm amputated and they get a false arm, you don't say 'like the look!' I think you get the idea.


 By the sound of your second paragraph, you are saying that people would not draw attention to things they dislike or something that the person  may feel embarassed about. Therefore, if somebody did compliment you on your buzzed or shaven look......they musnt think its something to be ashamed of.
Sounds pretty good to me.

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## mlao

> Does anyone else fear the complements as well as the insults? I hate the idea of getting a buzz cut and being complemented on it for example; I don't want reminding of the fact that I am balding, full stop. Likewise, how would you deal with it if the stories of women asking to rub bald heads that are posted all over the internet were true? I'm be mortfied if that happened to me, I'd have to tell them to **** off and would go home immediately. 
> 
> I find the best 'zone' to be in is to appear to do nothing. Everyone can see hair loss bothers me, but it's short enough to be tidy. No insults, no complements. Just blissful silence.


 Fixed brings up a very interesting point. Why do people feel the need to comment about our physical appearance. It's just bad manners.
I grew up with a friend who began losing his hair in his mid twenties. He was always a popular and gregarious person. He became very successful, married and had a beautiful family at a young age. When he came home for his High School Reunion a female classmate looked at him and one of the first things out of her mouth was "you're going bald"
Well he was very quick witted and before she could take a breath he replied
"And you have a fat ass"
I'm sure it hurt her but it probably taught her a painful lesson.

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## Fixed by 35

Clear example of why drawing attention to things can be bad. That said, at least it gives us a glimpse of what people are thinking. One of those catch 22 situations.

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## gabrielbartell

The problem with "bald attractive men" like Jason Statham and Vin Diesel are: these are all macho, masculine guys. Prior to losing my hair, I was "boyish". If masculinity is your thing, then baldness can work, but if your image/schtick depends on looking "boyish", then when you lose your hair, you're screwed.

Then again, no one can stay "boyish" for their entire lifetime. But I'd have women think I was "cute" than "rugged" any day. I hate balding.

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## Jeremy12

> The problem with "bald attractive men" like Jason Statham and Vin Diesel are: these are all macho, masculine guys. Prior to losing my hair, I was "boyish". If masculinity is your thing, then baldness can work, but if your image/schtick depends on looking "boyish", then when you lose your hair, you're screwed.
> 
> Then again, no one can stay "boyish" for their entire lifetime. But I'd have women think I was "cute" than "rugged" any day. I hate balding.


 This is 100% me and I 100% agree, I'm not macho at all. Pretty much, ****ed for life.

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## zero_confidence_balder

> The problem with "bald attractive men" like Jason Statham and Vin Diesel are: these are all macho, masculine guys. Prior to losing my hair, I was "boyish". If masculinity is your thing, then baldness can work, but if your image/schtick depends on looking "boyish", then when you lose your hair, you're screwed.
> 
> Then again, no one can stay "boyish" for their entire lifetime. But I'd have women think I was "cute" than "rugged" any day. I hate balding.


 ughhhh same here. I'm 23 but still have a "baby face" whenever I'm clean shaven...so the balding thing just doesn't work for me. Guess I'll keep my rugged 5 o'clock (...3 day) shadow as permanent fixture haha

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## Steve Aronson

I've thought about and researched all of the hair replacement solutions over the years but never pulled the trigger.  Now that I'm 58 I've become quite comfortable with being bald.  So so much so that I recently launched a business designing hats for bald guys. Checkout my website *********. The hats have been designed from the inside out for maximum comfort.  They feel great, are machine washable, and wick away perspiration better than anything on the market today.  Bald guys love these hats and you can read product reviews at www.slybaldguys.com and www.oobgolf.com

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## Steve Aronson

I've thought about and researched all of the hair replacement solutions over the years but never pulled the trigger.  Now that I'm 58 I've become quite comfortable with being bald.  So so much so that I recently launched a business designing hats for bald guys. Checkout the 4 head wear site. The hats have been designed from the inside out for maximum comfort.  They feel great, are machine washable, and wick away perspiration better than anything on the market today.  Bald guys love these hats and you can read product reviews at www.slybaldguys.com and www.oobgolf.com

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## Fixed by 35

I sometimes wonder whether bald guys are 'allowed' to wear hats. I'm sure some people read it as covering up and therefore insecurity.

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## Steve Aronson

> I sometimes wonder whether bald guys are 'allowed' to wear hats. I'm sure some people read it as covering up and therefore insecurity.


 Hey Fixed by 35.  I can assure you bald guys are allowed to wear hats.  And the reasons to wear a hat are many.  I play a lot of golf and at least half of the guys my age that I play golf with are bald or balding.  They all wear hats and don't give it a second thought.

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## Jack21

This is what I look like. When the bandana comes off the girls go running in the other direction. It has nothing to do with machismo...not in my case anyway.






> The problem with "bald attractive men" like Jason Statham and Vin Diesel are: these are all macho, masculine guys. Prior to losing my hair, I was "boyish". If masculinity is your thing, then baldness can work, but if your image/schtick depends on looking "boyish", then when you lose your hair, you're screwed.
> 
> Then again, no one can stay "boyish" for their entire lifetime. But I'd have women think I was "cute" than "rugged" any day. I hate balding.

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## jooder

Jack21 - I have said it before and i will say it again.....there is nothing wrong with you - you would be an attractive guy with hair or bald. Your seriously backing yourself into a corner with your thought processes.

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## Jack21

Look. I know self confidence has a whole lot to do with it but its pretty damn hard to be confident in the first place when your hair looks like mine does. My whole life I would walk down the street or jog in the park and women would smile at me or start some small talk. Now they look terrified. You should have seen this lady in the elevator a few days ago. She didn't recognize me. Usually she says hi and smiles. This time she turned away and wouldn't even look at me. What can I say? I was a superficial idiot my whole life and now I expect the world to become less superficial because I'm balding? No. Its karma. I deserve this.





> Jack21 - I have said it before and i will say it again.....there is nothing wrong with you - you would be an attractive guy with hair or bald. Your seriously backing yourself into a corner with your thought processes.

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## jooder

Jack - from your pictures i can hardly tell your balding.

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## Jack21

when its stubble length it looks like I have full coverage BUT then you see the huge scar at the back




> Jack - from your pictures i can hardly tell your balding.

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## jooder

Maybe try and reduce the scarring with laser or a very strong peel....then get it tattooed? I guess anything is worth a try if it could potentially improve your feelings about it.

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## Jack21

I am leaning towards the tattoo. I have seen results. They are not perfect or even wonderful but they are better than the huge scar.




> Maybe try and reduce the scarring with laser or a very strong peel....then get it tattooed? I guess anything is worth a try if it could potentially improve your feelings about it.

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## Don'tDoIt

Jack, as I have typed before, I am in the same boat as you with the scar.  However, I keep my hair just long enough to cover the scar.  That gives me the horshoe look, but at least I don't scare people with the huge strip scar in back.

To any newcomers, when it comes to strip procedures, Don'tDoIt.

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## Jack21

If I kept my hair long enough to cover the scar I would like bozo the clown. I prefer looking like this even if people find it intimidating/ off-putting when they see it.









> Jack, as I have typed before, I am in the same boat as you with the scar.  However, I keep my hair just long enough to cover the scar.  That gives me the horshoe look, but at least I don't scare people with the huge strip scar in back.
> 
> To any newcomers, when it comes to strip procedures, Don'tDoIt.

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## DAVE52

If I may ask, are you comfortable posting a pic of the scar.

You look fine to me as is , I am wondering what the scar looks like.

If not, I understand , and apologize for asking

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## Don'tDoIt

> If I kept my hair long enough to cover the scar I would like bozo the clown. I prefer looking like this even if people find it intimidating/ off-putting when they see it.


 Jack, I know exactly what you mean with that Bozo the Clown comment.  That is sort of the look I am rocking right now.  Not the full Bozo look, but a low-rise version of the Bozo look.  I prefer it this way to having the scar visible.

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## Jack21

I'll do my best to take a picture of the scar and post it for you to see.




> If I may ask, are you comfortable posting a pic of the scar.
> 
> You look fine to me as is , I am wondering what the scar looks like.
> 
> If not, I understand , and apologize for asking

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## Weedwacker

Hey Jack21, you look pretty damn good, man. I know you don't want to look like a clown but have you though about growing out your hair just long enough to cover the scar? Seriously, as long as you keep the horseshoe relatively short, you won't look bad;furthermore, you will be able to cover the scar which seems to be the main problem. Jason Statham has a horseshoe and he is still considered a sex symbol. Just something to think about.

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## Jack21

I'm getting more and more used to the scar. I don't mind it that much.




> Hey Jack21, you look pretty damn good, man. I know you don't want to look like a clown but have you though about growing out your hair just long enough to cover the scar? Seriously, as long as you keep the horseshoe relatively short, you won't look bad;furthermore, you will be able to cover the scar which seems to be the main problem. Jason Statham has a horseshoe and he is still considered a sex symbol. Just something to think about.

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## DAVE52

> I'm getting more and more used to the scar. I don't mind it that much.


 Congrats :Smile: 
That's 1/2 the battle 
Do you still get a negative reaction or inuirqies as to what happened from people on the street ?

If you can I would be interseted in seeing a pic of the scar

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## Jack21

Honestly at work people have started acting towards me as if I always looked like this. It just took a while. Now there is absolutely nothing negative - no jokes, no stares, no frightened looks. I keep saying this, but I will get a pic up of the scar. I'm getting pretty used to the shaved head look. It was a tough battle. I mean I was really reeling for a few weeks there, but its ok now. Amazingly there are still a number of women who have continued to show interest in me. I thought that would never happen. So, to whoever it was who said that all women think bald/ shaved headed guys are ugly - you're wrong. Nobody asks me about the scar.





> Congrats
> That's 1/2 the battle 
> Do you still get a negative reaction or inuirqies as to what happened from people on the street ?
> 
> If you can I would be interseted in seeing a pic of the scar

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## DAVE52

> . I'm getting pretty used to the shaved head look*. It was a tough battle. I mean I was really reeling for a few weeks there*, but its ok now. Amazingly there are still a number of women who have continued to show interest in me. I thought that would never happen..


 Great to hear :Smile: 
From your writing it appears the situation now isn't as bad as it was a month ago and that you and the general public have accpeted it for what it is and not made a bigger deal of it

Good for you .
Hopefully it will get easier as time goes on and you can relax and enjoy life .

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## DAVE52

Jack
I read  on another site that you are starting to do the things you like ( jog , box etc ) again

AWESOME for you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :Smile: 

Now I got to turn my sitaution around  :Mad:  :Embarrassment:

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## Jack21

I'm able to do all the things that I wasn't for years. I can have real workouts. I mean I can sweat profusely. Before I had to keep it mild so that I wouldn't sweat too much and mess up my "hair". I can also run properly again and, yeah, the best thing of all I'm boxing again. I don't mean I'm any good, but I love it. There's no better workout on earth. Yesterday afternoon I had the gym virtually to myself. I cranked up the music and just went to work on the heavy bag. Of course after all of this I can go home and take a real shower.

There is certainly an upside to this. I wish I could have my cake and it too but I can't. I am reminded of an English friend of mine who had very severe scoliosis. He opted to have a surgical procedure which would enable him to engage in sports on a normal level but would leave him "hunched" over a procedure which would have left him far more "normal" looking but unable to participate in sports. 

I wish I could have my cake and it it too, but I can't. I'm focusing on the things I like to do and am now able to do properly and not too much on looking at myself in the mirror. 





> Jack
> I read  on another site that you are starting to do the things you like ( jog , box etc ) again
> 
> AWESOME for you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Now I got to turn my sitaution around

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## jooder

Jack21 - Its great that you are starting to feel better and are realising that life doesnt end with a shaved head : )
  For anybody else reading this, Jack is a great example of scepticism which has turned positive. Up until very recently, he couldnt see why anybody would like a shaved/bald head...... i guess you could say he couldnt see the light at the end of the tunnel.
  I often post on this forum.....saying shaved/bald heads are not ugly and that my baldness has never held me back with women or in life generally. I get the feeling that sometimes people may think i just 'stick up for the bald guy' and even lie about things........ - i dont and never will.
  Would most men like the option of more hair?....... i think they would. After all, options are better for anybody. Do some women dislike bald men?......sure they do, but some women will never be attracted to a man with ginger hair or a man who is short or very tall or has a goofy laugh. You will NEVER please everybody, even if you are brad pitt.
  Look at the positives - Jack can now do things he never could whilst covering up his hair loss. He is slowly breaking free from the self imposed prison he and many other men create for themselves. He has noticed that the same women are still interested in him with a shaved head  :Smile:  He will soon notice that other women may now be attracted to him who were not before. In short, one door closes and another one opens.
  Jack - Keep up the positive attitude........ you reap what you sow  :Cool:

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## yohoslo

I am in the exact same boat as Jack and many others who have responded are in.  I am 35 now and had strip surgery about 6 years ago.  I could not tell you how many of the same emotions that you have expressed that I have went through myself, pure misery.  It is truly amazing how many of us dumb M-F'ers fall for getting hair transplant surgery and don't just shave or buzz-cut our heads instead.  I have friends who get tons of extremely hot girls with shaved heads.  But I have also had to wear my hair close to an inch long ever since the surgery to cover my scar, even though it is noticeably thinning on top.  My hair is getting thinner each year now so I want to cut my hair short very soon, hopefully by this coming spring.  So after much consideration, about 3 weeks ago, I went in for scar revision.  I had the trichophytic closure done, which I did not have the first time.  I talked to many doctors about this and most of them tried to sell me on the FUE surgery so I told them basically to kiss my A$$.  I would not consider any kind of hair transplant ever again.  It is truly the dumbest thing I have ever done in my life.  So far, the trichopytic closure seems like it is going to give me a much better scar but only time will tell if it stretches much or not and how much hair actually grows through it.  Hopefully, it looks good enough when it matures in a few months that I can cut it very short.  If it does not, then I am considering getting the tattoo follicle work done later on down the road.  Either way, this hair is coming off soon.  I would much rather expose the scar with a buzz-cut than to keep hanging on to this hair that makes me look much worse than this scar possibly could.

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## Jack21

Shaving the head is very liberating and people eventually get used to it. It took a few weeks but people treat me now as if I had always looked like this. People very, very rarely say or ask me anything about the scar. As I've said so many times before the whole "hair restoration" industry is absolutely loathesome.





> I am in the exact same boat as Jack and many others who have responded are in.  I am 35 now and had strip surgery about 6 years ago.  I could not tell you how many of the same emotions that you have expressed that I have went through myself, pure misery.  It is truly amazing how many of us dumb M-F'ers fall for getting hair transplant surgery and don't just shave or buzz-cut our heads instead.  I have friends who get tons of extremely hot girls with shaved heads.  But I have also had to wear my hair close to an inch long ever since the surgery to cover my scar, even though it is noticeably thinning on top.  My hair is getting thinner each year now so I want to cut my hair short very soon, hopefully by this coming spring.  So after much consideration, about 3 weeks ago, I went in for scar revision.  I had the trichophytic closure done, which I did not have the first time.  I talked to many doctors about this and most of them tried to sell me on the FUE surgery so I told them basically to kiss my A$$.  I would not consider any kind of hair transplant ever again.  It is truly the dumbest thing I have ever done in my life.  So far, the trichopytic closure seems like it is going to give me a much better scar but only time will tell if it stretches much or not and how much hair actually grows through it.  Hopefully, it looks good enough when it matures in a few months that I can cut it very short.  If it does not, then I am considering getting the tattoo follicle work done later on down the road.  Either way, this hair is coming off soon.  I would much rather expose the scar with a buzz-cut than to keep hanging on to this hair that makes me look much worse than this scar possibly could.

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## hindsight2020

I just realized how long this thread has gotten, as I havn't been on this site in quite some time. 

After reading through fixed by 35's comments, I am no longer interested in a debate on bald vs. hair, which is just a debate of self-confidence vs. self-pity. I am ok with being bald. I understand that if everyone felt this way we wouldn't even be here. What I am not ok with is the fact that I paid a lot of money to try to fix it, or cover it up. Thats the only real embarrassing thing now. 

Yes, I can pick out a transplant. You simply cannot duplicate a real head of hair. You can make it blend if you sill have hair ontop of your head to mix it with, but when you lose that (and 99% of people eventually do) you'll see what I am talking about. 

Being bald isn't ideal, but with a lot of other "diseases" I could've possibly been born with... I am ok with this one. Not happy, not miserable, but OK with it. 

Balding doesn't affect my life. People wondering why the hell I would get a hair transplant does.

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## TKS

I agree and disagree with both of you, if that's possible.  You guys both have totally legitimate comments on balding, but they are completely opposite.  Somebody thinks its the worst thing that could happen to them and their life is over, while another guy says "oh well" im bald and moving on w/my life.  It totally depends on your outlook in life.  And age has a lot to do with it.  My hair used to bug the crap out of me when I first realized I had male pattern baldness when I was 22.  Now I'm 32 and, yeah, I get jealous of fellas with beautiful, hair (especially when they're like 60+) whats up with that?!  I would do a hair transplant tomorrow if I was garanteed that it would make me feel like a look better, but its never gauranteed...  

And this is to the 20 year old.  I know at your age, looks mean a lot to you, but trust me, (and the poster) people will only think of you as that weirdo retarded bald guy in teh group if you play on it, meaning, if they know your are self concious about it, then they WILL think of you as that guy.  And it's not easy, but you seriuosly need to be conscious about it when you know people are looking at you.  Be aware of it, take in that feeling you get that upsets you so much and take a bath in it.  keep doing this, and eventually that pain will dull and when you have social interactions you will actually be social and not be thinking about whats on your head.  you'll realize that you are stronger than you thought.  And, wallah! you're not the bald guy anymore.  You are the interesting, deep guy, or the guy with the nice eyes and smile, or the guy with the ....u get the idea.  

Nothing I hate seeing more than a sad looking bald guy, I almost want to yank their arm and yell "dude wake up, its not that bad, the world is big and has lots going on, no one cares about your head, so please stop depressing me"

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## moses0324

tks wonderful post...its about how people percieve you...no one wants to be around a depressed balding guy.  on the other hand...if you are outgoing, confident, funny, nice, charming, smart, etc...the world is at your finger tips.

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## TKS

> Pharmacueticals... you wouldn't believe the number over ex-college cheerleaders these companies hire!.


 that is hilarious, i work for a blood testing lab and most our female sales reps are x pharmaceutical, not to mention they're all hot, and i know for certain that at least one used to cheerlead for the Lions.

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## TheDude

I really enjoyed your post hindsight2020..

I think the most important message is that no matter your situation, you always have options..

Im presently having an internal war with myself as whether to start taking avodart as propecia is no longer working for me..

The point is i could either prolong the inevitable with possible some seriously unwanted side affects or i could try get over it now..

I really don't know what im going to do.. being young and bald is not fun.. but then again as you've mentioned in other words.. I control how i feel about myself and my hairloss and how much I allow it to affect me..

..

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## BMT

Hindsight2020

Thanks for coming in here and giving your experience!

I too know the suffereing hairloss can bring. 

Your views are refreshing and much needed. The buddhists say suffereing is resistance to 'what is'. So its not the hairloss itself, its the resistance to it that causes suffereing. 

A real happyness needs to be build on a foundation that is unshakable... not what other people think of us, which is out of our control.

The irony is that we go through this to be attractive to Woman. And theres nothing woman hate more than vanity in a man.

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## neopolitan65

I have only just joined tonight, this is the first post i have read. I can see a hell of a lot of resemblance between this guy and me. However i feel that this post gets increasingly positive and actually make me feel better about myself the more i read. I am stuck in a rut and have been since i noticed i was balding at the age of 22. I have had so many questions flying round my head for nearly 2 years and there seems to be no answer. My best friend tells me to embrace going bald and accept that its just a thing that happens, but i find it difficult to think like this. This post is great to read and relate to, i think that going bald is just something that happens to certain men and we should NOT feel ashamed about it...ever. 
Thanks!

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## Rick

It gets better. 

Do whatever you need to do, but once you stop obsessing over it, life gets so much more fun.

Every now and then you'll have a bad day, and get depressed, but snap out of it and truck along.

Days in a row of not thinking about it become a success. Days becomes weeks, and weeks become months. 

I've gone through years now of not being bothered by it, and then maybe for whatever reason, I'll have a bad day, and get down for that one day. But it passes, and you move on.

Life is too short to worry and be down on yourself.  You gotta live.  No one's waiting for you.

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## Fixed by 35

I'm more resigned to the indignity than I was. I tend to try and focus on three things to keep sane:

*1) Following hair loss research.* Generally success is always 5-10 years away but it is slightly more promising than when I started losing hair 8 or 9 years ago. I would be surprised if there wasn't something half decent in 10 years time; transplants alone have come a long way in the past decade. 

However, I am getting to the point now where I'm getting too old for the research to allow me to have hair when doing so is overwhelmingly the norm. My twenties have pretty much been written off because no one ever let me be in my twenties because I looked too old. My thirties will be a write off too for the same reason (strangers tend to predict my age at 45 - I'm 28 - and I've been made to feel unwelcome in bars that attract young people since I turned 20 for the same reason). 

I'll take the fix when it comes, but I've already lived my forties once so it'll be interesting whether I care by that point. 

*2) Study and work.* Other people went socialising, I felt distinctly out of place doing so. So I worked long hours and did a lot of study. I still am. The working hard for someone else never paid off because without hair I didn't fit the corporate image and I missed out on promotion to pretty boys who came to work hungover but spun a good yarn and looked the part. Freelance is paying well though.  

In terms of study, I expect to be an accountant, chartered secretary and lawyer by 2014. None of these occupations attract pretty people in my experience! The trick to getting by as a bald man is remembering you have to be ten times better than anyone else to get the same chances and actually, having to do things right is surely a damn sight more satisfying than using looks to get on like so many people in this world. 

*3) Getting my own back.* I have no expectation of being treated with respect from people my own age and younger because I'm bald. The upside is I have no inclination to show any respect to them either and get an inordinate amount of pleasure in making pretty people's lives harder than they need to be. They rarely face such challenges because they conform so well so I believe I'm doing them a favour by instilling character.

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## LFC

If your posts are anything to go by, the reason why your not getting a promotion is because your socially inept

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## Fixed by 35

To be fair, in the present tense it probably has rather more to do with the fact that I am now self employed! 

In the past tense, if being sociable means spending Friday night listening to endless bald jokes until my intellectually challenged co-workers are sufficiently drunk that they vomit on themselves before discovering that women still find them more attractive than me, then sign me up as a card carrying anti-social bastard. 

It is distressing to know that looks and the ability to consume vast quantities of alcohol do play a part in twenty first century career building. And politicians wonder why we have a global financial crisis!

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## LFC

> In the past tense, if being sociable means spending Friday night listening to endless bald jokes until my intellectually challenged co-workers are sufficiently drunk that they vomit on themselves before discovering that women still find them more attractive than me, then sign me up as a card carrying anti-social bastard. 
> 
> It is distressing to know that looks and the ability to consume vast quantities of alcohol do play a part in twenty first century career building. And politicians wonder why we have a global financial crisis!


 ........

No

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## Fixed by 35

Said with 12 years of experience working in international finance. Raving alcoholic bosses and stoned auditors. All with lots of hair of course. 

What experience do you base your judgement on?

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