# Men's Hair Loss > Introduce Yourself & Share Your Story >  Do I have MPB or is it stress?

## appleguy

I'd really appreciate some help on this as I am going out of my mind.

I am 32. 
My hair receded at the temples so I have a mild M on my head. Basically A norwood scale 2
This happened in 2006 and it hasn't moved an inch since, learned to live with it.

Last year I was SERIOUSLY in trouble, financially. I was under threat of blackmail, debt, very important projects I was working on were failing and I fell into depression and anxiety. 
It got so bad when the phone went or an email popped through my guts would go. Terror all day, every day and this lasted for nine months until October of last year.

I managed to get the situation sorted and the anxiety/depression at least the BULK of it went. I thought I was totally alright but since then I still feel on edge a lot of the time, I still get low and afraid easily, I fidget, I have a touch of ED in the sex department due to racing thoughts ALL the time.
Feel like my heads full of static.
I don't think it's as full blown as it was because I get excited about workign on projects again whereas before I hated the idea of leaving my room but that's only because most of the bad events have slowed down or stopped.

So I realised I wasn't out of the woods yet.

Anyway several months ago I noticed the top of my head thinning dramatically. It's about a third thinner than it was but every where else it is thick wavy hair.
The hair loss starts from the crown to one third along the top of my head.

I only have a few pics from the end of 2008 - start 2009 of the top of my head but from what I can tell it was more or less all there.
So this started around the time I was stressed and depressed

No one else in my family has had hair loss like this although there is hairloss and everyone except me has thin fine hair apart from me and my mothers grandad (who died with a full head of hair, never even went grey.)

I know if it is anxiety and it is a form of Alopecia it will grow back.

1. Was this caused by the anxiety and how can I tell for sure?
2. If this was caused by the anxiety shouldn't it have grown back by now or is it still because it is lingering on (even if 25% of what it was).
3. What can I do about it? I have been trying to get rid of anxiety for months.
4. Hair feels greasy all the time what's that about?
4. If your hairloss stabilises at the front shouldn't the stability hold everywhere?

Any comments would be greatfully accepted.

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## ohlife

Hey dude,

Yeah I'd say it's stress related - go to the doctor about it, he might be able to give you advice/medication.

Actually your case interests me..

I know I have the onset of MPB, noticed about a year ago. Anyway, only probably a NW2 but has been fine up until last two months. In that time, my hair loss has been insane - like, around 200 a day; moreover, my head has been insanely greasy and itchy. Went to the doc.. He thinks the big escalation is possibly down to massive stress which would be a result of me being at university and having exams etc.. would seem to fit the timescale.

Anyway, main point is that if you can sort the stress issues out, that hair should come back. Either way you should go to your doc and make sure it is stress related and not another form of hair loss

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## appleguy

I'd be happy to keep you updated. I'm going to the doc to arrange a test which Ive heard can be done through a dermatologist.

I thinkthe condition is called Telogen Effluvium.

And it says hairloss can start 3 months after the events and last 6 - 9 months afterwards even a year before you start to grow back.

I haven't noticed lots of hairloss from there but with the above condition it happens like thinning out, you don't exactly shed loads so it's noticeable.

I hope to God this is all it is cause at least I know it will grow back.

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## ohlife

Me too, got an appointment soon so i'll likewise keep you posted.

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## ohlife

I've always been under the impression that I've had MPB, seeing as I've noticed the effects mostly in the crown and temples, but this is very interesting:

*In chronic telogen effluvium, there is persistent or cyclical diffuse hair loss and inability to grow the hair long. The hair cycle is reset with a shortened anagen period.

Chronic telogen effluvium does not alter the overall thickness of the hair. In fact, shedding tends to be more noticeable in those with thick, long hair – this is because they notice it more than those with shorter, finer hair.

There are often fluctuations in severity (cyclical diffuse hair shedding) reminiscent of moulting in other mammals.

Telogen effluvium does not cause baldness, although it may unmask a genetic tendency to genetic balding i.e. female pattern hair loss , or in men, male pattern hair loss. Thus, bi-temporal recession is common (high forehead).*

Says that it can 'unmask' or perhaps awaken MPB, thus explaining how it can still lead to a higher amount of shedding at the temples. Anyway, not a good thing, but if you can get it back on track, better than having severe MPB. Will have to wait and see how things turn out.

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## appleguy

I'll be finding out this Friday.

There's also a self diagnosis test you can do which is to pinch between you thumb and forefinger a clump of hair and give it a few yanks.

1-3 hairs coming otu is normal 4-5 and above isn't and is potentially TE

Also seeing hairs with clubs at the bottom is a sign.

This is what I'm seeing as well as lots of shedding.

Here's hoping.

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## Sogeking

Hi appleguy I have the same condition as ohlife. At first I thought it might be TE, however as time passed by I noticed my hair density is more sparse, and my scalp itches and its greasy.  
I think in some of us TE and MPB are intertwined. So possibly I've started with TE and ended up with MPB which without the stress might have come later on in life....
However in your case it certainly can be TE, so check it out on Friday and let us know.

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## VictimOfDHT

None of you guys match me in my misery. The past 3-4 months I lost a massive amount of hair mostly in the hairline and temples, BUT here's why I'm worse than all of you - those areas were all transplanted hairs. I used to have a pretty thick hairline, and now my scalp shows through. I feel like I'm going to die from the depression and anxiety this has caused. I mean WTF ? How can I lose so ****ing much hair in such a short time ? And it's probably all transplanted hair.

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## appleguy

Had my visit to the Trichologist today. Wow can't believe how stressed I was the night before.

I do have excessive shedding which me being such a daydreamer I never noticed, she was pulling it out right before my eyes and my pillow looks like a mans hairy back.
What was coming out had small little white plugs at the end which is a classic sign of TE

She told me I have a dermatological problem that is a form of TE caused by stress, my scalp is super oily and follicles and becoming clogged with oil and dead skin.
They first flatten against the scalp making it feel thin to begin with and then they cannot get through whatsoever and so fall out.

I would like to add at this point I have been having long and short hairs fall out. Someone on another forum said that means it's definite MPB due to antongen phase or something but the Trichologist said it is ridiculous as long and short can go and there is no difference. (makes you wonder why we consult forums for help when a lot of the guys there are just guessing - no offense intended though)

She says she does see signs of Genetic thinning but believes it is very slight and I don't have too much to worry about.

I've been given this awful cream which is like hair putty I have to rub into my scalp and it's hard to do and gets everywhere which you have to leave in for an hour which stops the oily secretions building up and eventually my body should takeover there after I think out the medication to zero. 
Luckily the paste is a once a week treatment, it's horrible stuff honstely.

I was also given shampoo and spray. The shampoo I have been recommended to use indefinitley but so what it costs only a little bit more than regular stuff anyhow.

Basically this condition is reverseable she reckons everything I have lost through it I should get back but as I don't know how much I have lost on top we won't know for sure until it begins regrowing again.

I have to go back in two weeks when she will let me know what is happening.

She did tell me she has had guys with similar conditions which have been reversed and they have lost all signs of genetic thinning as sometimes the one can look like the other.

The only caveat to all of this is sometimes and I stress 'SOMETIMES' as someone else has pointed out above me it can accelerate MPB. However as I have mentioned she has had guys reverse their condition entirely and show no signs of thinning at all or at least back to before all this hellish sleigh ride started. As I mentioned above I have receded back at the temples 5 years ago but it hasn't moved since.
MPB can also be exaccerbated by not addressing the condition relatively quickly and getting treatment as these kinds of hair problems can increase DHT levels bringing it sooner than it shoudl have come.

The Trichologist was very good she said I didn't need finasteride or at least shouldn't once this has all cleaned up due to my frontal recession coming to a halt. She also warned about just diving right into it and suggested always checking with a GP, she herself would never just prescribe it or any of the other variants (this made me relax instantly, you don;t want a doc trying to sell you loads of product if you don't need it.)
She did recommend Minoxidil if need be and told me it had a 70&#37; success rate and thinks it would work for me should I need it.
I had to pay for one session and that's it after that I just keep seeing her till it's fixed which she reckons shouldnn't take long.
Two weeks to fix it and up to 12 weeks (obviously) for the hair to grow back but she can tell by examining the scalp at two weeks.
She was Manchester based (I'm in the UK) and has ties with the Farjo clinic and is certified so she isn't some quack.

I was also advised to take more Iron and vitamin B and gave me a list of foods and supplements to take to help in future.

So although it's good news it's still a tense wait for two weeks to go by to see how much on top I get back again. She did say I should be optimistic though and thinks I am one of the more fortunate cases she has had.

I'm hoping if I can keep my hair for another five - ten years there'll be some new treatment out there that should fix anything major.

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## VictimOfDHT

Thanks for the info. Do you have to see your regular GP doctor to be referred to a trichologist ? 

One thing I don't think is accurate- Minoxidil does not have a 70% success rate -if she meant regrowing hair. Not even close. I'm a minoxidil user and advocate and have been using it for over 12 years. What it does is slow down your hair loss. It doesn't even completely stop it. I don't think it regrows anything except maybe in a very small percentage of people. If it were 70% successful in regrowing hair, the problem of hair loss would be almost fixed.

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## appleguy

No it was a private clinic in Manchester I contacted them direct but for her consultation it was &#163;45 but that is a one time only fee for the condition I have, afterwards it's free to see her, which I think is very reasonable and seeing how she only gave me treatment for my immediate problem and could have said tried to sell me countless other trappings if she felt like it.

70&#37; success rate in it working at stopping hairloss not the regrowth. She was clear on that.
She said if you do get regrowth it's no more than 15% of what you have lost through MPB

This is why I am optimistic about this Trichologist because she gave me facts and her experience she never made any false promises I have dealt with many people in my life who tell you too much what you want to hear which makes me think they're a bull-sh!tter.

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## VictimOfDHT

In that case I can say she's correct. I thought she meant 70% regrowth.  I'm thinking about seeing a doctor myself but I just don't think they have anything to offer in my case. They'll probably tell me if my shed is stress related it'll grow back. If it isn't, then there's nothing they can do. I'm already taking Fin/Dut and using minox. I'm just totally out of luck.

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## Sogeking

Hey appleguy, your situation seems a lot similar to mine. However there are no Trichologists in my country. What shampoo and spray did she gave you? Also what is the name of the cream can you tell me. I am not planning on self-medicating myself, but I may visit another dermatologist to see whats different so I could ask her about this treatments  :Big Grin: .
Thank you for the info appleguy  :Smile: .
Also if it is not a problem please keep us informed on your progress  :Smile: .

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## VictimOfDHT

Yeah, appleguy. We'd really like to know if your hair grows back. That MIGHT, MIGHT give us some hope that we too might get our hair back since we all seem to have similar conditions.

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## appleguy

Well the treatement is working, it's brought the hairloss to a halt now I have to wait and see how much of it will grow back.
One thing that bothers me though is I have been rededing at the temples since 2006 and then it stopped completely then when looking at photos from November last year or maybe sooner to now my temples have receded a bit more by about a centimetre, but more the left side than the right which seems a lot for standard MPB at age 32.

I also noticed that when the hair was coming out with the white plugs on the end it was happening at that left temple too but I can't be sure.

I have to wait to see the therapist again to be sure which means a week this thursday to get some definitive answers but the wait is horrible and I feel a bit useless as well as on edge.

The stuff I was given I'm not sure because they label everything themselves and it looks like the accidentally mislabelled the cream I put on because it has the same label as my shampoo.
One of the things is a spray for my head which is called:
Nanex OP Lotion
This is for scalp irritation.

BTW one thing I think I forgot to mention is that it's mild TE but I also have Seborrheic Dermatitis which is the main thing which is sort fo a form of excema. This can cause diffuse shedding and diffuse hair thinning.

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## VictimOfDHT

Thanks for the update, appleguy. I have Seborrheic Dermatitis and have had it for the longest time. My older brother had it too and he's now completely bald because he never used any meds like minox or Fin. I have little doubt that this shitty condition can be responsible for hair loss or at least speeding up the process and miniaturizing hair. There's hardly a shampoo I haven't used and nothing has worked. I use Nizoral some times 4-5 times a week. Just bought a new shampoo that's especially made for this condition and I'm hoping it will work.

 Yeah, I understand all the anxiety you're feeling. I just went through hell the last couple of months myself. The anxiety from losing so much hair suddenly literally ****ed up my nervous system.

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## Hurts

is this "Seborrheic Dermatitis" thing basically dandruff?   Because I have some sort of skin condition beneath my scalp and my forehead. After prolonged exposure to water it turns white-ish and can be "scraped" off with my nails. I thought it was just dead/dry skin but it surely cant have anything to do with dryness if it happens due to contact with warm/hot water?

Also every time I examine a strand of hair that's fallen out, there's some sort of white dead skin attached to the follicle.

I've looked at images on google and mine looks nothing like those pictures of people with some sort of inflammed skin, but the description matches. Weird...

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## appleguy

I didn't get the patchy scabby areas myself but I don't know wether it's exactly the same or not.

Basically from what I learned from my trichologist if hair is coming out at an accelerated rate it isn't MPB although you can still have that at the same time.

The hair will have a little white bulb at the end which is tiny.

If you have something that is coming off under your nails you could have something like this.

I was getting a form of dandruff too which i noticed especially when I was putting in hair product that now I am taking the treatment I do not get.

Anythign that clogs the base of the follicle will make it go dormant and stop processing new hairs

TBH with all the stress of the meeting it may not be SD I just remember her mentioning it was a form of dermatisis and everything I lost through this condition will grow back.

I highly reccomend seeing a Trichologist and one who is registered and qualified.

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## UK_

> Yeah, appleguy. We'd really like to know if your hair grows back. That MIGHT, MIGHT give us some hope that we too might get our hair back since we all seem to have similar conditions.


 Regarding your hairline - have you considered ACELL+PRP?  You know it might help stop further loss and thicken existing hairs.

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## appleguy

I'd need to do some research on it so far. If it works, fantastic, I'll jump at it but so far only the Private Clinic (Raghu Reddy) is doing it and I would need to see more proof of it working before throwing money at it.
Unless of course you know something I don't!

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## VictimOfDHT

> Regarding your hairline - have you considered ACELL+PRP?  You know it might help stop further loss and thicken existing hairs.


 We're waiting for a word on this stuff, whether it works or not. My understanding is that it is being offered in the UK at Raghu and his partner or something -forgot his name. If this stuff works, I'm getting it, cancer or not.

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## ohlife

> Had my visit to the Trichologist today. Wow can't believe how stressed I was the night before.
> 
> I do have excessive shedding which me being such a daydreamer I never noticed, she was pulling it out right before my eyes and my pillow looks like a mans hairy back.
> What was coming out had small little white plugs at the end which is a classic sign of TE
> 
> She told me I have a dermatological problem that is a form of TE caused by stress, my scalp is super oily and follicles and becoming clogged with oil and dead skin.
> They first flatten against the scalp making it feel thin to begin with and then they cannot get through whatsoever and so fall out.
> 
> I would like to add at this point I have been having long and short hairs fall out. Someone on another forum said that means it's definite MPB due to antongen phase or something but the Trichologist said it is ridiculous as long and short can go and there is no difference. (makes you wonder why we consult forums for help when a lot of the guys there are just guessing - no offense intended though)
> ...


 Ok, reporting in.. Wow dude, that's good news for you. As for me, I saw a dermatologist recently. Basically said that I probably do have at least some degree of MPB, but I also have dermatitis (like you, don't know how I've left it so long before getting it checked out).. I got the cream too, a long with antibiotics to hopefully 'kill' the dermatitis. Anyway, I'm hoping the excess shedding over the last 6 months or so was down to the scalp issues and that at least some of it will grow back and the excess shedding will cease - whether or not it was caused by stress I do not know, but I wouldn't be overly surprised.

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## Hurts

appleguy can you please explain more about your dermatitis condition? I think I have it too. I have it a lot on the side of my head, my scalp, sometimes forehead and under my eyebrows. When you scratch your head do you get clumps of dried/dead skin between your finger nails?

thanks

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## Hurts

in fact i think my eyebrow hairs are thinner than they used to be because of this. I've seen many doctors about it but non of them know wtf it is. maybe i should see a dematologist

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## ziggomatic

Hey Appleguy - my hairloss sounds quite similar to yours, VERY greasy hair every morning, white bulbs on the end of my fallen hair and I can pull around 8 hairs from the BACK of head (near the neck area) very easily. 

What was the name of the Clinic/Trichologist you went to visit?

Thanks!

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## ohlife

> Hey Appleguy - my hairloss sounds quite similar to yours, VERY greasy hair every morning, white bulbs on the end of my fallen hair and I can pull around 8 hairs from the BACK of head (near the neck area) very easily. 
> 
> What was the name of the Clinic/Trichologist you went to visit?
> 
> Thanks!


 Yes that's true, When I rub or gently pull on the hair in the donor area, hair still usually falls out - its more resistant in this area I guess, but still. 

Hurts - definitely go get it checked out. Plus, doctors seem slack.. emphasize that its really bothering you.

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## appleguy

The clinic is called the trichology Clinic Manchester.

In regards to some questions about what I have. I do not have the scabby scalp and if you search online you will find many people saying that is exactly what it is but mine is not quite that. I have excessive sebum production which collects on the scalp, stops skin from coming away and collects there until it basically smothers the follicle which then goes to sleep.
The scabby kind is the same condition but at a different severity.

I was even losing a bit of chest hair if I did a tug test as well as scalp hair.

I was meant to be seeing them today for an update but my appointment was cancelled due to a problem at their end so it's another week away for me.

I do know that what she has given me is definitely working. I'm hardly losing any hairs now and my hair is nowhere near as greasy as it once was.

The main worries are will this trigger MPB on top of my head?
How much will I get back (As I never noticed if I was losing at the top before this and have no evidence to show where I was before it kicked off.)
Also I have a receding hairline which I thought had stopped but hasn't which I dont think has anything to do with this condition (unless I'm pleasantly surprised by what she says to me when I go for my check up) and I don't know what I should do about that.

Someone above me mentioned Acell PRP as a potential hairloss stopper but we won't know anything on that from what I have been able to glean till later this year. If it works as a hairloss stopper I will be over the moon but we have to wait and see about that.
Until then I have been giving serious thought to Finasteride.

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## Fruit59

Appleguy,

How did your 2nd visit go? and not sure if i understand how can their treatment further progress MPB ?

Thanks
F59

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## appleguy

Hi

I didn't mean treatment, I meant this condition can 'sometimes' accelerate any MPB that you may have so treatment needs to be quick and fast.

I had my 2nd appointment which got cancelled once by her and once by me due to work.

She gave me a quick check and said I was responding well to the medication that my scalp was much less irritated but she said it was way too early to tell how much regrowth I was going to get. I have a few new hairs growing here and there but the condition is not gone and until then I won't see anything significant.
I also got very scared a few days before because in the shower I started shedding like crazy again but I was told it is normal to have the occasional off day where you shed so shit happens.

I do seem to be more receded on my left temple than my right but that could be down to this condition and again I will not know for sure until this is all cleared up and I start to regrow what I have lost.

Another 4 weeks wait I'm afraid before I find out where I stand.

At the moment I'm trying to put this behind me and get on with things as anxiety over this really isn't helping the condition but as soon as I get my next appointment I will update again.

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## Fruit59

Thank you for the update,

I attended my first consultation yesterday with the same clinic and was given exactly the same as you, she said i had seborrhoeic dermatitis, I have my second appointment a week today. 

She also said ill see re growth once its cleared up so i am hopeful too, it is really difficult trying to not think too much about it all, especially as you have to apply the spray every night.

I just hope i get everything i have lost back, she said it will thicken up again within 3 - 4 months.

Ill also keep you updated on my status.

Thanks
F59

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## ThinFast

I'm curious... so the hair that's falling out with the white bulb attached is a sign of TE?  I thought it was also just a sign of MPB?  I ask b/c since I noticed my hair rapidly falling out 3 years ago, every single hair that I've seen come out of my head has the white bulb attached to the end.  My hair also gets greasy very quickly.  If I don't shampoo everyday, it looks awful.  I never considered TE as an additional possibility before to my hair loss.

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## Fruit59

Appleguy,

Could i just ask are you still using the horrible putty in your hair? and roughly how many hairs are you losing when you put this in your hair and then shampoo the stuff out ?

Thanks
Fruit59

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## VictimOfDHT

So if someone has this TE, is there anything they can do about it ? This isn't like MPB.

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## appleguy

Thin fast and victim of DHT
do a tug test grab between your forefinger a thumb and clump of hair and give it a couple of small yanks, if four or more hairs come out you have TE and it is reversible. Excessive shedding isn't MPB especially long hairs with white blubs at the end.
If it is TE (TE is a symptom by the way not the root cause) you can do something about it visit a dermatologist and getting the right treatment and after awhile it will grow back. Mine it seems was caused by this horrific year of financial hell I went through last year.

Hi Fruit,

Yeah I have that horrible putty, well it's more like thick hand-cream you have to rub in and yes I get loads of hairs coming out as a result. It's the worst part of the treatment because you have to torture your head with this crap and there's hairs all over your hands and comb and then when you shower you see so many hairs come out but it looks like it is a necessary evil.

When I first started the treatment I plagued Donna at the Trichology clinic with phone calls but you have to chill the f**k out and wait unfortunately this is why I'm trying my best to ignore these forums because it's become something of an obsession now.

I do have MPB but not super bad, I have receding temples. It is something I have had for five years now but I completely didn't see it. I even convinced myself that I had lost my temple hair through rigourous drying of my hair over the years now I seemed to have opened up this problem that I now dwell over which isn't good.
I have good days and bad sometimes I really chill out especially when I look at the treatments coming out. the next five years are going to be very exciting in terms of beating MPB, in fact I was thinking to myself how six weeks ago everyone was claiming FUT was better than FUE now everyone is condemning FUT due to recent stem cell advances which would mean FUT losing a strip of stem cell bearing skin which could be used in HM.
six weeks and the game has changed so much.
In fact attitudes seem to be changing. check out the conversations going on at the forums on *************.
Everyone seems to be very upbeat about future treatments coming out, there's even rumours Aderans are rushing to the market now because they believe super badass MPB treatments are right around the corner which will kill their products in a short space of time.
There's also this work being done by Gho and th super fast nature of developing stem cell treatments not to mention Dr. Costarelis's products coming out which seem to be a symptom free treatment for complete hair restoration
I don't know if hair transplants will be gone in five years but they will be very different, less invasive and more akin to HM and more along the lines of a Botox injection in terms of stigma.
I don't know if my MPB is going to get any worse but I am glad that I am suffering it in today's modern age.

I am definitely seeing less shedding around the treatment though when I do tug tests I don't lose many hairs at all now.

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## Fruit59

Thanks for the speedy reply, yeah i am only 1 week into the treatment and have just been to my checkup after 1 week, but i have used the scalp pack twice now. Donna said i am responding well to the treatment and should see re growth by the 4 week mark. So now have to wait another 4 weeks and use that pack. I just hope i get back what i have lost, but i do know for sure that the stuff is working before when i did the tug test i could esy pull 3-4 hairs each time and atm when I tug I barely get one hair!

I am not entirely sure if you`ll know the answer to this but does the dermatitis need to completely clear before you see regrowth or will you see regrowth in areas where the dermatitis has cleared up?

Thanks F59

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## appleguy

I had a bit of regrowth like a few sparse hairs hear and there but she said to me it was way to early to tell. Clearly my condition must be a bit more harsh than yours.
As I mentioned earlier I had a minor relapse where it came out again after the 4 week mark which shows that mine must be relatively severe.

I'd assume it does need to clear up completely before you get mass regrowth at least it makes sense to me anyhow, I could be wrong. As Mine was stress related it could be awhile after the SD symptoms have gone that I start to regrow.
Kind if a little scary really because I have no idea how much regrowth I expect to get back as I never monitored my crown for standard MPB.

Nothing left I can do but wait really.

Funny I was thinking only the other day how little thought I ever gave to losing my hair and I always thought if it gets to that I'd just shave it off. Now I'm damn near obsessed and really scared of losing my hair to the point where I am always checking future cures for this stuff on numerous websites. Sometimes I'm up...sometimes down.

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## Fruit59

Yeah I think about it loads as well. Before I started losing hair, like most i never even gave it a thought, I didnt even notice or think twice about how much hair other people had. Now i find my self looking at everyones hair comparing their hairline etc there isnt a day that goes by i dont think about it. I need to start concentrating on other things while this condition clears up.

With respect to diet what have you been recommended to do ?

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## appleguy

I was told more greens fruit veg specific veg as well I can't remember what exactly I have a list somewhere. Unfortunately in my position I cannot accommodate those things so I just take centrum multi vitamins.

Best I can do right now.

And yes I'm doing nothing but staring at peoples hairlines now, kind of aggravating.
Most people have said I was suit having a shaved head but I would much rather have the choice than the absolute.

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## Fruit59

I have been told avoid cheese and fish supplements, i think these two cause more oil on the scalp? Yep I am on Centrum and eat plenty of fruits veg etc just all he things that are generally good for you anyway.

I had eczema as a child and very very mild eczema now so i am now monitoring my foods more closely no eggs, dairy products etcc Ohh and a vit c drink at meal times.

I think i would hate a shaved head, choice or no choice. I suit a short ish hairstyle but not shaved. 

Oh well just got to wait...

F

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## VictimOfDHT

Thanks, appleguy. I hope you're right about these future treatments (coming out soon). I really don't know if I'm going to be alive when they do come out. I feel like the stress from this god damn curse is going to kill me. I have never ever experienced the stress I am experiencing now. I lost a lot of hair in the past 4-5 months it's actually changed my hair line, a lot. I know this shedding can't be MPB. Hair doesn't just fall out so rapidly like that. Almost all the hairs I'm losing are strong thick hairs. I am suffering from MPB and have been fighting it for the past 13-14 years but I just don't know what the **** is going on now that's causing my hair to fall like rain. We don't have trichologists here, and I don't think dermatologists will have an answer either. So I don't know what to do even if it is TE.

Fruit, I'm the same. I'm always checking out people's hair too and comparing mine to theirs. And my hair is all I think about for the past 5 months (since this horrible shed started).

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## Fruit59

I know its horrible, people who dont suffer have no idea ! I know this sounds sooo bad but i cant help but look at some girls/women the ones who just know they are good looking and i think to myself if you were balding/bald your attitude would be so different its untrue !! I hate this ****

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## ThinFast

I sent the Manchester clinic an email tonight, hopefully they or Donna will get back to me.  I'm fairly convinced that an overly greasy scalp is the root of most of my problems.  Not saying that I don't have any MPB, I know I do, but I've always questioned how rapid my hair would fall out and never seem to grow back.  I also have extremely greasy hair after one day and have taken pictures of the little puddles forming around my follicles using my Proscope camera.  Short hairs and long hairs have fallen out (up to 70-80/shower), all with the white club attached at the end.

This also might explain why a product like Minoxidil has no positive effect on me.  I've always wondered how it could possibly get down in the follicle when the follice is already flooded on the surface with excess sebum.  Also why Propecia and high levels of Avodart did nothing, DHT wasn't really the issue for me.  I really hope they get back to me, I'd love to start taking care of this issue ASAP.

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## Fruit59

Hi Thinfast,

I would phone them and get a consultation asap, she is v busy and may only be able to see you in over two weeks. 

Keep us posted on what she recommends, and the condition she diagnosis.

Cheers
F59

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## ThinFast

I received a reply from Donna earlier today.  She asked me for some pictures and information about my health and diet.  Just sent it all back, hopefully she can help point me in the right direction.  I am very impressed and excited that she responded to me so promptly.

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## Fruit59

Apple,

How are you doing with the stuff you have been given? Could i just ask how long have you been using the products? and are you starting to see some regrowth?

Thinfast,

What did donna say about your pictures/condition, do you have to go for a consultation ?

Cheers
F

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## ThinFast

She didn't get back to me yet.  An in person consultation won't happen due to me being in the U.S.  I left it up to her as to how a "virtual consultation" will take place.  She asked for the magnified pictures of my scalp, I'm not certain if this is something she does at her practice.

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## Fruit59

Yeah when i was there she does exactly that.

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## appleguy

I'm refusing to look mate, getting two mirrors and checking the top of my head REALLY gets me down so I refuse to look.
I'm already obsessed with my hairline and I don't need to be analyzing my crown as well, I'll wait to see what the lady says about it.
Seems to have completely stopped the shedding, as for regrowth I was getting a little bit when I saw her last but she said it was way to early to tell.
I see her again a week on Wednesday. Find out more then.

I do know mine was stress related and I know that even after this condition is gone it can take awhile for the follicles to wake up again so I'm biding my time.

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## VictimOfDHT

Man, this is like me. I try to avoid looking at the top of my head using 2 mirrors but sometimes you can't help it. Although I still have hair, just seeing how thinner it's gotten I feel like I'm going to collapse. It makes my legs weak. This is just so ****ing cruel.

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## appleguy

You guys need to check out the HM threads over at *************
They really cheered me up. Those guys are really in the know and keep up to date with research coming out, I find this site a bit lax on the research side of things and only point out the blatantly obvious stuff. 
Genetics and stem cell therapy's are seriously kicking off now as well as potentially infinite donor for HT's. We will start seeing the market results for injectables (replicel is looking very exciting as it's underlining research has been confirmed by non pharmaceutical doctors as being bang on the money.) Looks like 2012 will be a really exciting year for hairloss sufferers.

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## Fruit59

When you say completely stopped shedding, are you losing any hairs in the shower/when you put the scalp pack on ? 

Just out of interest how many times have you used the scalp pack so far ?

Thanks 
F

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## appleguy

Used it about six or seven times and yes loads of hair comes out when I use it. Also I still get the occasional shed day like today but Donna said I could continue shedding up to 12 weeks after starting treatment.

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## Fruit59

Ahh i see, thanks for the info. Let us know how your consultation goes.

Thanks
F

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## VictimOfDHT

What is the treatment you're on ? Is it the same one you talked about before ? I'm wondering if it's anti fungal ?

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## Serge808

I wish u the best of luck bro cuz I sorta can understand at least a bit half way
Cuz I too had and still do have anxiety and depression all the time and
I still can't completely tell what my hairloss is caused by. And I too had  the terrible stressand anxiety problems that were about a year and a half or so ago. So several months later
 I was hella shedding from everywhere i would lose he'll of lot of hair I could just run my hand through myhead and get like 50 hairs out every dam time.
I sorta wish I new what exactly what's wrong u know even though my doctor prescribed me proscar tabs. I don't
 even for sure know that it's helping becuz I'm still losing alot of hair every moth it feels thinner and thinner and I can even
 see my scalp. anyway I just started on spectral dnc this minox based product Wich comes with alot of hopefuy good herbs and vitamines wich then are encapsulated into microspheres wich are supposed to work to some extent better than regular minox It supper to Be used for different kinds of hairlosses at 
least that's what it says on the directions. That It work well to 
improve those who have hairloss do to to stress, so either way I'll see what's up in 3 moths after this product. Anyway I still got hope and I really hope ur codition gets better.

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## Serge808

Sorry guys if it's terrible to understand I know I misspelled whole buch it is just this on my iPod.

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## Fruit59

Victim,

I am not sure if its anti fungal or not, none of the products have any sort of different label to help distinguish them from each other.

One is a scalp pack which is like a thick hand cream which you have to place on your scalp and leave it in for 1 hour then shampoo it out.

The other is a shampoo which you use 3 times a week.

Lastly there is a Nanex OP spray which we spray on our scalp before we go to bed. This does not require to be washed out.

Apple might know if its anti fungal or not.

Cheers F59

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## VictimOfDHT

No we understand, serge. Sounds like what I'm going thru. It's nothing short of a nightmare.  I hope the stuff works for you.


Thanks for the reply, fruit. I'm thinking about using Mico cream. I know there used to be a lot of noise about this stuff and now it's hardly mentioned any more.

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## ThinFast

Hey guys, it's been a hectic couple weeks for me, but I have had email correspondence back and forth with Donna.  She said that while it would obviously be better to see me in person, that there does seem to be evidence of seborrhoiec dermatiitis.  She also said there were other clues of it, such as me experiencing an excessive diffuse loss and that my hair needs to be washed so frequently. Also the white " club " being attached at the end of the hairs that always fall out.  In addition, she theorized that the lack of results I see from products like Minoxidil, Propecia, and Avodart could all have been due to this.  She said that once the follicles become unclogged, those products may be much more effective.

My diet, although healthy for your body overall apparently has been contributing to my problem.  Back in January/February of this year, I switched over my diet from an all around low fat diet to one loaded with healthy fats (monounsaturated, polyunsaturated, and Omega 3's).  She said that while this is extremely healthy for the body, it will only cause the seborrhoiec dermatitis to get worse as the fatty oils will contribute to more oil being produced by the sebaceous glands and more clogging of the follicles.  Ironically, I have perceived an apparent acceleration of my hair loss this year.  I thought this may have been due to job stress and stress from losing my hair in the first place, as well as losing hair when you already have less on your head to begin with may make those parts of scalp finally show through.  Now I'm starting to wonder if it was the change in my diet.

Interestingly, she also said that shampoos like nizoral can sometimes exacerbate this type of problem as well.  I've put an order in for the scalp pack and shampoo that Appleguy is taking.  Hopefully, she'll get those products over to me soon and I can begin treatment.  Any updates for Appleguy or Fruit?

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## VictimOfDHT

You know, I really don't buy all that "follicle clogging" they keep telling us about. Hair loss isn't caused by the follicle being clogged especially not due to oily build up.

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## Fruit59

The stuff about omega fish oils is exactly the same as my situation. When I was being diagnosed she asked me are you or were you taking fish supplements and I had started this early 2011 and my hair loss started in March 2011. I was also eating quite a few eggs as i thought this was helping my hair but it clearly wasnt. I have been quite strict with my diet post diagnosis as obviosuly i want to do everything i possibly can to help me. The products definately work at clearing the dermatitis, I am just hoping that I achieve the re growth. At the moment having used the scalp pack 4 times now I can feel the back of my head the hair is much thicker than it was and feels alot better. Now, on top it does feel alot better but I am guessing it will take time to thicken up again, you cant just re grow hair overnight, but now when I look at my scalp it looks alot healthier and I am hoping my age (20) will hopefully be on my side. I can see other members of staff at work at a similar age to me and they have noticeable receding hairlines, now I dont know if this has always been the case, but now that I have experienced hair loss maybe I am just noticing it more but no one age 18, 19, 20 should be losing hair, its ridiculous this is meant to be our best years, I know you will have heard it all before on here but it has really affected me, I dont feel like going out at the moment, I always decline social meals/nights, all the things I used to enjoy so much, I feel has been taken away from me. Ohh well gonna stop ranting before I just get more depressed.
F59

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## VictimOfDHT

I've been living like a hermit for the past 15 years. I know that won't make you feel better, but just know there are a lot like you and me. Like I always say, life is cruel and to bring another soul into it is even more cruel.

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## Fruit59

I just cant believe there are people out there who dont care about their hair. When I spoke to my dad who is over 50 now and happily married for over 20 years, he is balding from the back and its thinned out on top, he said if there was treatment that cost 5k he would have it done, but he doesnt want surgical, pills etc. I think it affects alot more people than we know but nowhere near enough come up and speak about it. I think if we all did there might have been a cure out by now.

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## UK_

> I just cant believe there are people out there who dont care about their hair. When I spoke to my dad who is over 50 now and happily married for over 20 years, he is balding from the back and its thinned out on top, he said if there was treatment that cost 5k he would have it done, but he doesnt want surgical, pills etc. I think it affects alot more people than we know but nowhere near enough come up and speak about it. I think if we all did there might have been a cure out by now.


 yeah nobody talks about it - its the silent misery thats what it is!  Men prefer to suffer in silence!

Im exactly like that, I mean ive NEVER told ANYONE that im bothered about my hair loss - even though I think about it more than anything else in my life... drives me crazy!

I've never met a bald guy that wouldn't pay above 50k for a cure - id pay anything, sell my house car, empty all my savings anything!

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## ThinFast

I personally try to play it down, but it absolutely bothers me.  The thing is, I've tried everything out there and nothing has worked.  I'm at the limits of the scientific world that is available for 2011.  I am hopeful that my issue does have something to do excessive sebum.

Victim of DHT, I'm a bit confused as to how you don't buy the theory of hair follicles being clogged up by excessive sebum and oils, but do believe (I presume by your handle) in the theory that DHT essentially clogs follicles?  There are a lot of theories out there, but I'll share 2 pics that may mean something, they may not.  The first pic is of my scalp (left temple), the excessive oil is obvious.  I shampoo'ed and conditioned my hair this morning, about 17 hours ago.  The second picture is of my facial hair.  The difference of my skin is undeniable.  I am curious to see if there will be any difference in my scalp after I receive my scalp pack and shampoo from Donna.

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## VictimOfDHT

Because a lot of people have oily hair and never go bald. And conversely a lot of bald people dont have oily scalps. Because I've had oily hair all my life and only at a certain age did I start having thinning hair. Or, I'd go years without significant hair loss and then in a few months I'd lose a bunch of hair. The problem is deeper than oil or sebum. If it were only that (sebum...) I'd wash my hair 20 times a day. Sure, oily scalp might make things worse but I don't think it is the reason why we go bald.

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## ThinFast

> Because a lot of people have oily hair and never go bald. And conversely a lot of bald people dont have oily scalps. Because I've had oily hair all my life and only at a certain age did I start having thinning hair. Or, I'd go years without significant hair loss and then in a few months I'd lose a bunch of hair. The problem is deeper than oil or sebum. If it were only that (sebum...) I'd wash my hair 20 times a day. Sure, oily scalp might make things worse but I don't think it is the reason why we go bald.


 You can literally replace oily and sebum with DHT in your above statement and most people would say that theory holds true also.  If you washed your hair 20 times/day, you'd still lose hair from all of the added stress of yanking and tugging on each follicle and shampooing doesn't necessarily clean up sebum below the skin's surface where the damage is being done by excessive sebum and/or DHT.  Working on the same principle of over-shampoo'ing hair, I can tell you that I've taken 2mg/day of Avodart to limit DHT production and it didn't even slow my hair loss.  I believe if you buy into one portion of the follicle clogging theory, you have to buy into the other.

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## Serge808

Hey at least he found some hope and that's wort a lot more than people think since now he can be less stressed and maybe for this person its all he needs since he tried many things with no luck. whatever ur doing THINFAST bro hope it helps lets keep our fingers crossed and see what happens in a couple months. peace and God bless.

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## ThinFast

Thanks Serge, once I get the items, I'll be sure to let everyone know how things are going.  I'll be taking more scalp pics with my proscope to see if there is a change in the amount sebum that appears to be on my scalp.  

Also, I don't want to get this off track but as someone who has tried nearly everything there is available today, I would not recommend high doses of fin/dut.  My experience with taking high levels of avodart was something I could have done without as I suffered many side effects and I didn't even realize it when they were happening, or maybe I just rationalized it and said that hair was more important than the issues it was causing.  One night out though with some friends and trying to pick up girls, I found myself less motivated and less confident.  Not only was it affecting my libido, it was also making me doubt my sexual abilities if I would be able to get myself into a good situation with a girl.  I realized right then, there's no point in having hair on my head to attract females if I can't get excited about the proposition of having sex and couldn't maintain an erection anyway, even if Megan Fox was sitting on my face.

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## Fruit59

Apple,

How are you getting on with your products? Is your hair feeling any better yet?

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## appleguy

Hi,

I saw Donna a few weeks ago.

I seem to be responding very well. I hadn't washed my hair in four days before I saw her and she was amazed my scalp was in as good a condition as it was considering that.
She said in the next 4-6 weeks i should start seeing a lot more regrowth, I am getting some scattered around everywhere but these are small Velus hairs I should get some Terminals coming through.
I still have shed days which is annoying they aren't anywhere near as bad as they used to be and they seem to be at the focal point of the SD about an inch and a half in diametre spot where one or two days a week I still get loss.

She told me that if I need to I can start taking the scalp pack at 9-10 day intervals but I want this nailed and gone so I'm sticking to seven days and yes I still get a bit of shed when putting that muck in.

My hair feels loads better, it was feeling think manky and lifeless like my entire scalp was dying and now apart from the loss it feels healthier and looks much better.

I also still don't know if the loss I was having is due to the SD and stress as I am much more stress free now but I guess this kind of loss can take a while to reverse. I'm not at the 12 week period yet which is hopefully when the shedding should start to settle down.

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## Fruit59

Ahh that sounds like good news then. I am due to see Donna tomorrow to see where I am. I am only at the 5 week point at the moment. I can still pull 1-2 hairs if i run my hands through my hair. The back has completely thickened up though and cant pull any hairs out from there but on top of my scalp I still think I have the SD.

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## Fruit59

Apple,

Saw Donna today she says there is only a little big of it on my scalp and its not like stuck to my scalp, she says overall my hair looks healthy again and is thick again on top. I am thinking that due to the hairloss I dont feel like my hair is back to what it was, and i am not sure I will ever feel like that due to this. I still feel my sides need to imrpove though. She told me I should use the scalp pack once every 10 days, however increase the shampooing to 5 times a week. Ill see how this goes, for now i am trying to grow my hair long which should hopefully conceal any receding I feel I have experienced. Just a quick question I feel as though I have lost hair along my hairline, has your loss been the same or has your loss only been on top ?

Thanks
Fruit

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## PaulC

Hi Appleguy and Fruit59,

I would be interested to hear of any updates that you two might be able to offer as I am one of those who may have a similar although not exactly the same condition and would benefit from knowing if you treatment has proved to be as effective as your initial enthusiasm.

Do you think that you actually suffered from Seborrheic Dermatitis or may you suffered just from an excess of Seborrheic oil?

And lastly, how about regrowth?  Any good news?
Hope you can find a couple of minutes to reply.

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## Fruit59

"Do you think that you actually suffered from Seborrheic Dermatitis or may you suffered just from an excess of Seborrheic oil?"

Well either way its causing hairloss. As for regrowth my hair did thicken up but due to the clinic being out of the scalp pack and i am still awaiting a delivery of one i have noticed an excess shedding again. I am hoping this arrives in the next week. As i mentioned earlier on into this discussion I dont think I will ever feel my hair is back to normal having experienced hairloss.



Hi 

Appleguy and Fruit59,

I would be interested to hear of any updates that you two might be able to offer as I am one of those who may have a similar although not exactly the same condition and would benefit from knowing if you treatment has proved to be as effective as your initial enthusiasm.

Do you think that you actually suffered from Seborrheic Dermatitis or may you suffered just from an excess of Seborrheic oil?

And lastly, how about regrowth? Any good news?
Hope you can find a couple of minutes to reply.

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## DontKnowWhatToDo

> I was also eating quite a few eggs as i thought this was helping my hair but it clearly wasnt.


 I am stressed out most of the time as it is, always nervous, always fidgeting, and coincidentally I too had recently significantly increased the amout of eggs I had been eating to try to bulk up. As it happens, nearly ALL of the hair I have been shedding recently has had the white bulbs on the end. I'm hopeful now

::fingers crossed::

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## appleguy

Hi,

I had excess sebhorreic oil which was causing my TE but it was also stress related due to what happened to me last year.

Apart from that no real updates. I am getting some regrowth but Donna told me it was fine Velus hair and over the next six weeks will get some Terminals coming through until that happens I won't see any cosmetic difference.

I never got any loss at the front mine was all on the crown.

I still get shed days which pisses me off mightily but as long as I am getting regrowth I'll be happy.

I feel the same as Fruit, a bit shattered over my hair since all this happened and feel like things have changed a bit for me.

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## Fruit59

Don't know,

I would go and see a hair and scalp specialist to diagnose the reasons why you are losing hair. I know it's a bit annoying but try to cut down on the foods mentioned above. Eggs, fish, fish supplements, seafood, and try to cut down on foods that are common for allergies, I.e wheat, milk etc. 

Apple your lucky you've not lost from the hairline, problem with me is I already had a high hairline, infect when I look at previous photos taken a few years ago iam amazed at how high it looked but it didn't bother me one bit because I wasn't losing hair and my hair was really thick, I got loads of compliments when I cut my hair wasn't even an issue for me. But now I've noticed hairless I seen to be concentrating more on my hairline which is probably why I think it's receded. I don't know but I know I won't be able to go back to how I liked it.

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## guile85

Hey Ive had basically the same problems as fruit for the last year or so. Im 26 years old and always had a thick head of dark brown hair, widows peak and all. For the last year or so i was under extremely heavy stress about an 8 or so everyday up to about a 10 on a scale from 1-10. Also where i was living we had really funky water, if you put it in a cup it was light grey almost white ish. My mom started commenting that i was losing tons of chest, leg, head hair in the bathroom. And people at work started commenting on how i might go bald. I would wash my hair every day or so and it would never come clean. Almost like it was greasy and lifeless.  My father and I both have the same receding hairline, my dads probably 52-53 been grey since his late 30's 40's more noticeable now but no real hairloss minus the receded hairline.And my mom has almost what i would call telogen effluvium where she has hair everywhere but it looks kinda thin in places and you can see scalp. Well anyway i lost my job and started really noticing it and freaking out. Almost as if my receded hairline was inching more towards the center of my head. If you look at my head in the mirror you could see hair every where on my head, but scalp showing plainly through. So i started taking multivitamins and introducing more fruits and vegatables into my diet, and have cut quite a bit of the stress out of my life. Im pretty sure the hair is now starting to grow back there are little sprouts about 3 inches long all around where i thought i was going bald (crown area). And on the back of my head the cowlick spot there is like a post of about 5 hairs comming right out of the cowlick. My sister inspected it tonight and said yes there is little hairs, they look sort of blondish though. I was wondering if this is TE or MPB or a combo of both? Should i take minoxdril or whatever its called?

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## ThinFast

A bit of a thread revival here, but I was wondering how you guys are doing that are on Donna's products?  Also, have any of you been to see her lately?  I had ordered a couple of bottles of shampoo from her over a month ago and received nothing.  I did email her and she responded saying that the shipment must have been lost, said she was sending out a replacement shipment today.   I am in the U.S., but I still am always suspicious of ordering things from overseas and via internet.

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## appleguy

She's not a fraud, I think sometimes she disappears up her own arse with work.
I seem to be doing reasonably well the condition is now under control she said I am 70% of the way there. I will soon begin to deplete per week what I use and ween myself off it.
I am getting regrowth but thin Velus hairs I will have to wait for them to thicken up which is taking a while.

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## keepingmyhair

I lurked through this thread, and wondering how you all have been coming along.  I'm 28,and  have an appointment tomorrow with a dermatology NP (nurse practioner) where I will go into a nervous breakdown if she tells me I've got MPB..

I went back 3 generations on both mother and father's sides and everyone is dead...with full hair.   I've always had thick hair that stylists constantly compliment about how thick and gorgeous it is and how lucky I am.

Naturally, I took it for granted, as this past week, despite my hairline looking the same it always has as far as I can tell (always had the triangles in my temples since puberty) the crown of my head near my cowlick seems to either be thinning or just widening in general.  Now that i'm obsessing over it I've noticed my whole head just appears sickly and not full and flowing like it used to be. My head has been itching and inflamed for six months but I've thought nothing of it until now (just figured it's dry..it's usually oily).

I do NOT want propecia/endocrine drugs.  I already take Valium (nervous system drug), Prilosec (gastric system), and Inderal (blood pressure) I can't handle another one that turns me impotent.  I like sex.  

I've read of this stress related hair loss (TE) and I have pretty much been in non stop stress since December 2008.  The past 2 months alone have included severe stomach flu/food poisoning and surgical routine endoscopy and colonoscopy with anaesthesia...   Now I'm going to find out my crown is balding and will lose the only part of my body I have great self esteem for?!!  

we don't have the trich specialty here in Florida, just dermatologists and some people say to go to endocrinologists because they can check all the hormone related stuff.   UGH. I'M SO UPSET.

EDIT:  I went back and viewed a video that I could see the back top of my cowlick exactly a year ago and I can see the same spot was already there.. I don't know what to make of it.  Either i've always had this..or i've been going downhill for years and couldn't tell until randomly happening to notice it in 2 mirrors after my shower the other day.  I wish my scalp would also stop itching.  I've done some research but I can't tell if it's a good or bad sign for MPB diagnoses if your scalp is itching with inflammation.

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## TiiWii

Seems like TE will be something common in the future, with our stressed out society.

Ill tell you about my hair and then about my situation.

A month ago I noticed my crown was thinning severely. I had lots of hair on my head, but my crown was thin as hell. After visiting the barber for my usual 6-month cut (im cheap i only cut every half year) I could notice my crown was almost bald! Almost got a heartattack! Then I noticed my fronts sides were a "little" thin aswell and I thought I must be going bald.

The past 6 years ive been stressed to HELL in my university. Its been nightmare on earth, having a 3 year uni program take 6 years in total. Combine with all these sleepness nights a girlfriend who broke up with me in middle of it all and you could probably say I was depressed even though I didnt know it.
Uni was finally being completed when on the last exam the f*cking teacher had switched around everything and the exam was something totally different than I bargained for! My head became numb and I probably got my lifes first "shock" that didnt recover til 2 months later. I actually aced the exam anyway and now im graduated.

Anyway, 4 months after the exam this balding of the crown happened and atm im still reeling from 6 years of stress  :Mad: . Ive started exercising, ive started using some anti dandruff shampoo my doctor ordained me (about the hair in particular he wasnt an expert so he just presumed im balding even though my family history goes against it).
Im also using some davines products and now ill just see what happens. If its TE itll prob grow back since my stress is slowly going away. Ill update here over coming months what happens. Ill massage head too 10min a day since people say that might work.

Btw im 25 years old.

My scalp is also itching btw since previous guy mentioned his was.

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