# Men's Hair Loss > Men's Hair Loss: Start Your Own Topic >  Saw Palmetto Shed, good news or not?

## lucrio

So, after having frequented this website during my first attempt to combat hair loss with finasteride, I am back with more questions. The finasteride unfortunately did not work out for me after six months as I was an unlucky one to experience side effects and I made the unhappy but necessary decision to quit. After a month of not taking fin I still wanted to fight hair loss so I decided to begin taking saw palmetto. 
         I am completely aware of its unproven and debated nature but I figured why not, I am not doing anything else proactive, I might as well give it a try. Now to my question. I have been taking saw palmetto for a little over a week now and my hair has begun to shed recently. I am wondering if this shedding  could mean that maybe saw palmetto actually does work to help slow hair loss and the shedding is part of the typical regrowth cycle (I also began shedding about a week into finasteride, which i ultimately made progress with). Or, is saw palmetto entirely different and may just cause hormone changes which only result in sheds with no growth. 

         Sorry for the long spiel but I figured i would give some background. Any advice or opinions on if I should continue saw palmetto would be appreciated.

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## StressedToTheBald

I too might have the increased shedding. My daily dosage is 510mg of beta sitosterol and 300mg of saw palmetto plus other stuff. I don't worry about the side effects, not gonna happen ! Unlike finasteride both saw & beta are natural compounds and studies have reported no serious side effects. 

I also use MSM 10&#37; topical, twice per day and its actually then that I notice the shedding. Contributing factors are also that this MSM balm is more thick and my current hair is a bit longer..

The current shedding doesn't worry me too much. I'm roughly in my first month and I have noticed some new tiny hairs where I don't ever remember seeing them. They're tiny, weak and lacking colour.. but hopefuly in the months to come - they'll become stronger, get proper colour and if more of them appear - its gonna be a small miracle for me.

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## sathya928

I had a similar shedding with other medications. I had also read that the shedding is because of the hair follicle being forced into the regrowth cycle (resting phase), so that it can grow back thicker. 

If I stop using the medication, will I lose the hair that shed? Are those hairs permanently gone? or will they grow back to what it was like before I started using the medication.

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## Tracy C

> If I stop using the medication, will I lose the hair that shed? Are those hairs permanently gone? or will they grow back to what it was like before I started using the medication.


 No one can answer that question.  It depends on how week those hair follicles were.  Only time will tell.

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## chrisis

StressedToTheBald,

Do you know why side effects occur with finasteride, but not saw palmetto, if they do the same thing? i.e. block DHT?

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## 2020

> StressedToTheBald,
> 
> Do you know why side effects occur with finasteride, but not saw palmetto, if they do the same thing? i.e. block DHT?


 I can't believe ANYONE takes StressedToBald seriously.....

Saw Palmetto, Beta Sitosterol and all that other natural crap LOWER YOUR DHT LEVELS. FACT.
If your body can't tolerate lower DHT levels, then YOU WILL GET SIDE EFFECTS. FACT.

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## chrisis

I'm not taking anyone seriously. I'm asking the question because I don't understand why saw palmetto would not induce side effects in people who've already suffered side effects with finasteride.

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## Tracy C

> I'm asking the question because I don't understand why saw palmetto would not induce side effects in people who've already suffered side effects with finasteride.


 Neither do I.  It makes perfect sense that *IF* natural DHT blockers actually could do anything to slow down, stop or reverse hereditary hair loss, they would have the same side effect profile as Finasteride.

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## StressedToTheBald

> StressedToTheBald,
> 
> Do you know why side effects occur with finasteride, but not saw palmetto, if they do the same thing? i.e. block DHT?


 Its an excellent question chrisis. Finally some inspiring discussion that makes sense. It is known and reported by several studies that saw palmetto is safe and that significant & permanent side effects which occur with finasteride do not happen with saw palmetto. Neither of them actually blocks DHT directly - they impact enzyme thats responsible for making DHT... but their mechanisms of action and impact on this enzyme are completely different and so are the side effects. Here is a very interesting quote I've digged out which might help You understand:

_"Finasteride, sold only by prescription, blocks the action of 5-alpha-reductase, an enzyme that changes testosterone, the dominant male hormone, to dihydrotestosterone, also called DHT. Saw palmetto appears to decrease 5-alpha-reductase and may also have other hormonal effects, according to MayoClinic.com. Saw palmetto also has inhibitory effects on male hormone receptors."_

Pay attention to exact words used.. one blocks, other decreases. I believe mechanisms of action of these two are completely different and so is the impact. One seems to be able to kill the 5-alpha reductase and therefore DHT, the other seems to decrease 5-alpha reductase and inhibit DHT receptors in the hairs - essentially DHT production is significantly reduced and because receptors are also inhibited - DHT becomes a key for which the locks have been disabled. Dr. Irwig says that the danger of propecia is in the fact that it shuts down 5-alpha reductase in the brain - and even when You stop with propecia treatment - side effects don't necessarily dissapear - thats why some people end up permanently impotent.

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## chrisis

Thanks STTB. It appears very complex. The only way to know for sure I guess, would be for me to try.

I'm tempted to give finasteride one more go at a lower dose, but I want my libido to return first. 

If I have no luck, I'll try saw palmetto. 

By the way, I asked my Dad about the zinc dose he uses. I wrote it down but it's not on me, so I'll write again later. I assume it wasn't a big dose because he just bought it from a high street store.

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## StressedToTheBald

> Thanks STTB. It appears very complex. The only way to know for sure I guess, would be for me to try.
> 
> I'm tempted to give finasteride one more go at a lower dose, but I want my libido to return first. 
> 
> If I have no luck, I'll try saw palmetto. 
> 
> By the way, I asked my Dad about the zinc dose he uses. I wrote it down but it's not on me, so I'll write again later. I assume it wasn't a big dose because he just bought it from a high street store.


 You're very welcome.
I hope You'll stay on the safe side and give saw palmetto a chance.
Please do let me know about the zinc dose Your Dad is using. Also what type of zinc it is.. there are several type of zinc compounds out there and not all seem to be showing the same effect. Thank You.

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## 25 going on 65

> So, after having frequented this website during my first attempt to combat hair loss with finasteride, I am back with more questions. The finasteride unfortunately did not work out for me after six months as I was an unlucky one to experience side effects and I made the unhappy but necessary decision to quit. After a month of not taking fin I still wanted to fight hair loss so I decided to begin taking saw palmetto. 
>          I am completely aware of its unproven and debated nature but I figured why not, I am not doing anything else proactive, I might as well give it a try. Now to my question. I have been taking saw palmetto for a little over a week now and my hair has begun to shed recently. I am wondering if this shedding  could mean that maybe saw palmetto actually does work to help slow hair loss and the shedding is part of the typical regrowth cycle (I also began shedding about a week into finasteride, which i ultimately made progress with). Or, is saw palmetto entirely different and may just cause hormone changes which only result in sheds with no growth. 
> 
>          Sorry for the long spiel but I figured i would give some background. Any advice or opinions on if I should continue saw palmetto would be appreciated.


 If you only quit finasteride 5 weeks ago, you could be experiencing hair loss associated with quitting the drug. If you retained, improved or regrew any hair during your 6 months on it, those gains will be lost upon dropping the medication, and your hair will "catch up" to where it would have been had you never taken fin.

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## 2020

> Its an excellent question chrisis. Finally some inspiring discussion that makes sense.


  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 




> It is known and reported by several studies that saw palmetto is safe and that significant & permanent side effects which occur with finasteride do not happen with saw palmetto.


 I'll keep copy-pasting this until your respond...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22325459 (Duke University)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21980923 (Japan)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21910805 (Italy)

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## DAVE52

saw palmetto = waste of time

If it really really worked yoi don't think it would be publicized as such 

Propecia works at slowing it  down, for some people , but a small percentage ( me being one  :Mad:  ) get stupid side effects 

Net result --- I have to learn to accept my f*cking fate  :Frown:

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## chrisis

Dave52, saw palmetto can't be protected with patents, so it can't be compared to finasteride. Research is very expensive, so there's no clinical data about its effectiveness and there's just no incentive for anyone to market it to the extent of finasteride. 

There just aren't enough people trying saw palmetto for anyone to draw anything meaningful about whether it works or not.

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## 2020

> There just aren't enough people trying saw palmetto for anyone to draw anything meaningful about whether it works or not.


 uhm there are plenty of desperate bald people who will try anything:

site:hairl0sstalk.com saw palmetto
site:hairl0sshelp.com saw palmetto
....

If Saw Palmetto worked, then the Hair Loss community would certainly know about it.

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## DAVE52

> If Saw Palmetto worked, then the Hair Loss community would certainly know about it.


 If it worked , the WORLD would know about it

Anyone taking , who says it's growing hair , I would argue that you want to believe it's the saw palmetto doing it

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## Tracy C

> Finally some inspiring discussion that makes sense.


 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvxIXd2-3fo

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## 25 going on 65

:Big Grin: 
We love you Tracy.

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## chrisis

> If Saw Palmetto worked, then the Hair Loss community would certainly know about it.


 But since you can't patent it, you can't exactly make much money from it, therefore there's no clinical data and no one promoting it. How many people have tried it? It's certainly not something I'd have heard about without researching it in depth.

I'm not saying saw palmetto works; I'm saying you can't just dismiss it.

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## chrisis

> Anyone taking , who says it's growing hair , I would argue that you want to believe it's the saw palmetto doing it


 You could say the same about many hair loss treatments, since *none* are 100% effective.

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## 2020

> But since you can't patent it, you can't exactly make much money from it, therefore there's no clinical data and no one promoting it. How many people have tried it? It's certainly not something I'd have heard about without researching it in depth.
> 
> I'm not saying saw palmetto works; I'm saying you can't just dismiss it.


 right right... but all it takes is ONE positive review about Saw Palmetto, and you will have a bunch of people trying it out.... 
If it were to work, those people will come back and confirm that Saw Palmetto does in fact work. That hasn't happened...


Look at what's happening with Toco-8 now:
A couple people reported good results, and now a bunch of people on the forums started using it... In a couple of months we should know if Toco-8 works or not....

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## chrisis

> You're very welcome.
> Please do let me know about the zinc dose Your Dad is using. Also what type of zinc it is.. there are several type of zinc compounds out there and not all seem to be showing the same effect. Thank You.


 He's apparently on 15mg of zinc. I'll have to ask him what type. Sorry but I usually only speak to him at weekends.

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## chrisis

> right right... but all it takes is ONE positive review about Saw Palmetto, and you will have a bunch of people trying it out.... 
> If it were to work, those people will come back and confirm that Saw Palmetto does in fact work. That hasn't happened...


 Actually I've scoured the forums and have found some people who've claimed positive results. The problems are:

1) there aren't enough people trying saw palmetto ALONE for enough time, so it's efficacy isolated isn't known. Most people will jump onto finasteride straight away, or be looking to try something else if saw palmetto isn't working within weeks. 
2) those who try it and don't notice a result confidently conclude that it doesn't work at all. This isn't quite fair, since not even finasteride works for everyone and it takes TIME to work. There are no trials, so nothing is out there to defend saw palmetto from people who say it didn't work for them, so doesn't work for anyone.

All anyone can say about saw palmetto is that there's not enough information to say if it works and how effective it is. Who knows, maybe it's half as effective as finasteride, but that's something eh?

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## StressedToTheBald

> He's apparently on 15mg of zinc. I'll have to ask him what type. Sorry but I usually only speak to him at weekends.


 Ok. Just been away to check my labels..
My total daily intake is 65mg.. although not all is the same type of zinc.. some is zinc oxide, some zinc gluconate, some just says zinc..
Anyway, sadly I can't say all this high dose does anything special for me.

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## chrisis

two positive saw palmetto testimonials:

http://www.hair loss talk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2895

This link is blocked for whatever reason so you'll have to copy and paste it into your browser.

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## 2020

> Ok. Just been away to check my labels..
> My total daily intake is 65mg.. although not all is the same type of zinc.. some is zinc oxide, some zinc gluconate, some just says zinc..
> Anyway, sadly I can't say all this high dose does anything special for me.


 65mg is way too much if you take it every day! Overdose of Zinc will actually lead to hair loss...

ffs instead of worrying about specific vitamins, buy a multivitamin and you will get absolutely everything your body needs:
http://www.vitacost.com/Country-Life-Maxi-Hair

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## StressedToTheBald

> not even finasteride works for everyone and it takes TIME to work. There are no trials, so nothing is out there to defend saw palmetto from people who say it didn't work for them, so doesn't work for anyone.


 From beta sitosterol + saw palmetto study:

_"The active softgel components consisted of ﬂ-sitosterol 50mg, and 
saw palmetto extract (standardized to 85-95&#37; liposterolic content) 200mg.       Systemic absorption of the active softgel components' bioavailability WAS enhanced by the use of lecithin 50mg, inositol 100mg, phosphatidyl choline 25mg, niacin 15mg, biotin 100mcg.

Study participation encompassed a duration of approximately 4.6 months, with a maximum duration of approximately 5.4 months. There were three scheduled clinic visits."
_
_
"Duration of participation in this study anged from 18 to 24.7 weeks. "_

_On the basis of the investigative staff assessment of change in the patient&#237;s scalp hair growth from baseline (Figure 1), treatment with the active study formula demonstrated 60% (6/10) subjects rated as improved&#237; at the final visit as compared to baseline. _

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## StressedToTheBald

That concetration I've quoted btw. is per 1 softgel.. Patients were taking 2 daily.. so that comes down to 100mg beta sitosterol + 400mg saw palmetto daily.

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## chrisis

Ok, so other supplements must be used with saw palmetto for it to work? This is SO complicated, and I don't think I'm exactly stupid  :Embarrassment: 

However, if that's true, it would also explain why there are fewer reports of saw palmetto working - people aren't using it properly...

A little joke I read on another forum. What is Saw Palmetto? I've seen Saw 1,2 and 3, but not Saw Palmetto?

A little cheesy but I lol'd.

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## 2020

> Ok, so other supplements must be used with saw palmetto for it to work? This is SO complicated, and I don't think I'm exactly stupid


 no dude it's just Saw Palmetto and Beta Sitosterol...





> A little joke I read on another forum. What is Saw Palmetto? I've seen Saw 1,2 and 3, but not Saw Palmetto?
> 
> A little cheesy but I lol'd.

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## StressedToTheBald

> Ok, so other supplements must be used with saw palmetto for it to work? This is SO complicated, and I don't think I'm exactly stupid 
> 
> However, if that's true, it would also explain why there are fewer reports of saw palmetto working - people aren't using it properly...


 I don't think they're crucial, I use some of them anyway, but I don't really think SP only works if combined with these few supplements.  




> A little joke I read on another forum. What is Saw Palmetto? I've seen Saw 1,2 and 3, but not Saw Palmetto?
> A little cheesy but I lol'd.


 Thats a good one. Which reminded me, JigSaw was bald too !

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## Tracy C

> Ok, so other supplements must be used with saw palmetto for it to work? This is SO complicated, and I don't think I'm exactly stupid


 You are not stupid.

The "studies" StressedToTheBald keeps linking to have no merit.  However there is one study he never has linked to on a specific Saw Palmetto complex that does have some merit.  Though as with many such studies the number of participants in that study was much too small and the duration of the study was much too short.  This is the specific study that some doctors are referring to when talking about using Saw Palmetto as a possible substitution for Finasteride.  It is important to note that the study was on a "complex", not straight Saw Palmetto.

Here in the U.S., a vitamin company called Nature's Bounty sells a Saw Palmetto complex that matches the specific blend that was tested in that study.  I do not know if Nature's Bounty products are available in the U.K., so here is a link to a PDF file of the label for that product which shows the list of imgredients.

http://images.vitaminimages.com/cdn/...L006052-NB.PDF

Keep in mind that if you choose this path, you will need to take it as directed on the label for at least 12 full months to determine if it working for you.  Also please bear in mind that if any natural product actually could slow down, stop or reverse hereditary hair loss, it would likely have the same side effect profile as Finasteride.

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## Tracy C

> It's certainly not something I'd have heard about without researching it in depth.


 If it actually worked to slow down, stop or reverse hereditary hair loss, you would not need to research it because everyone would know about it.






> You could say the same about many hair loss treatments, since *none* are 100&#37; effective.


 Nothing works for everyone.  That's just the way the cookie crumbles.  However, Minoxidil works for most people who use it as directed and Finasteride works for most people who use it as directed.  This far, natural products have not worked for anyone.  There is no positive feedback supporting natural hair loss remedies at all.  None, zilch, naddah...  You can site many possible reasons for this but the simplest reason is usually the correct one.

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## OO7

Hi each and all, I thought I would add my "two peneth" regarding Saw Palmetto & Beta Sitosterol, I was up until about 5 months ago taking 320 mg of Saw Palmetto & also 375 mg of Beta Sitosterol, but stopped due to it never regrown any NEW HAIR, however since I stopped my hair on my crown has thinned considerably, wheather this is just coincidence or wheather the combination of the two or maybe one was keeping DHT levels down in my crown I don't know, I also have noticed that my frontal hair has become thinner, needless to say I am back on Saw Palmetto & Beta Sitosterol, I am thinking of trying some Kirklands minoxidil 5% also, my brother used it and got quite impressive results on his crown,

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## 3rdDecade

Hi all, I would like to share my opinion on proceedings, so if you don't mind take this as a pinch of salt.

Considering Saw palmetto and Finasteride (Propecia) both lower DHT levels. One must think even though DHT is lowered in different ways compared to each medication, the outlining result is that DHT has been lowered, therefore allowing follicules to breath. 

I think there has NOT been enough investigation into Saw Palmetto, primary reason for this being is that it's such a widely cultivated product, the profits involved for pharmaceutical companies would be minimal if that. The main goal of pharmaceuticals is to make money, scraping through FDA examinations at minimum expense is what there best at, our safety is a second priority.

I believe Saw palmetto works, atleast at slowing down progressive MPB. 

All this talk about "If Saw Palmetto works everyone would know about", is B*llsh*t. Saw palmetto is native to northern america. Native americans have the lowest MPB percentage in the world.

A theory of using DHT inhibitors (Propecia, Saw Palmetto etc....) to supress DHT can swing the pendulum towards Androgen Receptor UP-REGULATION, which of course will lead to further balding.

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## 3rdDecade

> Hi each and all, I thought I would add my "two peneth" regarding Saw Palmetto & Beta Sitosterol, I was up until about 5 months ago taking 320 mg of Saw Palmetto & also 375 mg of Beta Sitosterol, but stopped due to it never regrown any NEW HAIR, however since I stopped my hair on my crown has thinned considerably, wheather this is just coincidence or wheather the combination of the two or maybe one was keeping DHT levels down in my crown I don't know, I also have noticed that my frontal hair has become thinner, needless to say I am back on Saw Palmetto & Beta Sitosterol, I am thinking of trying some Kirklands minoxidil 5% also, my brother used it and got quite impressive results on his crown,


 Read my theory above.

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## win200

Old thread, but I'll resurrect. I did something slightly stupid: I went on SP about twenty days before getting a transplant. (A doctor I consulted with but didn't use for the procedure recommended it without any discussion of hormones, side effects, etc.) The problem is that I've been having some increased shedding after the surgery (I'm at 9 weeks), and I just assumed that it was shock loss. But now that I've read that SP may cause shedding, I'm not sure what to chalk the shedding up to. And I feel trapped; do I keep taking the saw palmetto (160mg daily), or drop it? I hate that I have no idea what caused the forelock thinness I've got now, and no clue whether it will regrow.

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