# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  Neogenic by LOréal

## gmonasco

Cosmetics maker LOréal will launch a new active ingredient in September that awakens dormant hair and enhances hair density.

http://www.cosmeticsdesign-europe.co...e-hair-density

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## 2020

oh god this is going to fail so bad....  these people have like 10,000 products and none of them work. They also tried "modifying" minoxidil by creating Aminexil which should work better but in fact it doesn't work at all!

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## BoSox

At least it's something, it might work.

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## Mojo Risin

100$ for a month supply.
Nice.
Grade A snake oil.

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## Pate

90 Euros a month... wow. Even with the Euro in the state it's in right now, that's expensive snake oil.

Might be faintly effective for women. But no joy here for the Norwoods, I'm thinking.

I notice they are very careful in the coverage not to claim it induces hair growth. It's also a cosmetic so like Eucapil doesn't actually have to prove efficacy to be sold.

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## Kiwi

> 100$ for a month supply.
> Nice.
> Grade A snake oil.


 I don't often agree with ya mate... But I toooooootally ****ing agree with you!!! 

The one thing about this that interests me is the idea around how many huge companies are out there working on stuff that we don't know about - they are not here on TBT radars because they have no need to talk about it :P


Regardless of whether this works it's a pleasant surprise.

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## MrBrainwash

Thats BS ...

They registered it as a cosmetic. That means, not even that it is not guaranteed to have any affect, according to the laws in europe it is not even allowed to have one !

Also the company statements is full of may's and might's ...

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## chrisis

Can anyone explain properly why this won't work? I see a lot of skepticism but no actual reason why.

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## Kirby_

> Can anyone explain properly why this won't work?


 Because its a cosmetics product, not a medicine.

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## ardana

i just got an idea

if i were to use this product for a year and document my progress (which would be non-existent of course)
could i sue l'oreal for false advertising and get millions of dollars?

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## chrisis

> Because its a cosmetics product, not a medicine.


 You could say sunscreen is a cosmetics product, nevertheless it stops people from getting skin cancer.

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## gutted

you people do know dr cots work was *partly funded* by *loreal* right???

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-follicle.html

"Dr Cotsarelis, a dermatologist whose work was part-funded *by the U.S. government and by LOreal*, said he would also like to investigate whether his findings equally apply to women."

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## yeahyeahyeah

> you people do know dr cots work was *partly funded* by *loreal* right???
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-follicle.html
> 
> "Dr Cotsarelis, a dermatologist whose work was part-funded *by the U.S. government and by LOreal*, said he would also like to investigate whether his findings equally apply to women."


 Ive always wondered why big cosmetic companies like loreal have not worked on curing this shit.

They have the money.

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## UK_

I will only buy it if it contains the magic ingredient...

.... Saw Palmetto  :Big Grin:

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## gutted

> I will only buy it if it contains the magic ingredient...
> 
> .... Saw Palmetto


 looool, saw palmetto is good stuff despite the general "flawed" consensus!

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## gutted

> Ive always wondered why big cosmetic companies like loreal have not worked on curing this shit.
> 
> They have the money.


 The big companies want cash cows, they dont want to "cure" it...whatever that means.

A good convenient treatment is all that is needed.

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## UK_

> looool, saw palmetto is good stuff despite the general "flawed" consensus!


 I will literally cry with laughter if this product states it contains Saw Palmetto on the ingredients list.

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## UK_

Regardless, I think this product will be aimed at women, and I cant see it growing new hairs on slick bald scalps.

Products for healthcare and cosmetics will always go to women first, just like cancer research charities, women elicit more sympathy than men, and get more funding for their causes.

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## UK_

is this the active ingredient?:

http://trademark.markify.com/tradema...dine/010494789

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## gutted

> I will literally cry with laughter if this product states it contains Saw Palmetto on the ingredients list.


 i think the active ingredient is called Stemoxydine.

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## Tracy C

I am less than enthusiastic about this one.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## gmonasco

The cosmetics giant has recently opened up its new Research and Innovation centre in St Ouen, Paris, dedicated solely to hair care, and gave Cosmetics Design a tour of the new facility as well as an insight into what will be discussed at the European Hair Research Society (EHRS) Congress in Barcelona.

http://storify.com/amcd87/a-day-at-l...ensity-researc

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## chrisis

If someone can explain scientifically why this won't be any good I'm all ears/eyes.

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## Tracy C

I cannot explain scientifically.  It doesn't matter anyways.  What matters is proof of results.  I haven't seen any.  Thus far all I have seen are words.

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## UK_

> If someone can explain scientifically why this won't be any good I'm all ears/eyes.


 As far as I understand they're trying to create 'hypoxic' conditions in vivo - which somehow will allow the stem cells to work better.  Honestly if this is the treatment that 'reactivates the dormant stem cells' in the scalp that Dr Cots discovered last January you'd think there'd be a major uproar in the medical community about it.

We all know HSC is about creating those same hypoxic conditions IN VITRO and extracting the components that allegedly form new hair follicles, but that's completely different as they're recreating the environment at embryogenesis.   But if conditions of hypoxia are the answer to all our problems, where does DHT fit in?  Where does PGD2 fit in?  How does minoxidil and vasodilatation relate to reducing oxygen and aiding hair growth?

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## neversaynever

> As far as I understand they're trying to create 'hypoxic' conditions in vivo - which somehow will allow the stem cells to work better.  Honestly if this is the treatment that 'reactivates the dormant stem cells' in the scalp that Dr Cots discovered last January you'd think there'd be a major uproar in the medical community about it.
> 
> We all know HSC is about creating those same hypoxic conditions IN VITRO and extracting the components that allegedly form new hair follicles, but that's completely different as they're recreating the environment at embryogenesis.   But if conditions of hypoxia are the answer to all our problems, where does DHT fit in?  Where does PGD2 fit in?  How does minoxidil and vasodilatation relate to reducing oxygen and aiding hair growth?


 The oxygen thing is curious. Thats a big part of HSC. I believe they claim that there is a difference in growth factors and other molecules at different oxygen levels.

Sure this product probably wont make us all happy, but they might have a point about this hypoxic stuff...

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## Pate

> If someone can explain scientifically why this won't be any good I'm all ears/eyes.


 Nobody can explain scientifically from a media article. Even if we were experts in the field we'd need the peer-reviewed published paper and the full data set to refute it.

The argument is not scientific but logical. It's being marketed as a cosmetic which means a) they don't have to prove efficacy and b) they can't market it as a hair loss treatment in the US - the single biggest market.

Do you honestly think that if they had something that could demonstrate clear clinical efficacy and get FDA approval, allowing marketing in the US, they wouldn't do it?

We can't say for sure it won't work, and there may be some limited effect on women or very early stage NWs, but the odds of this being a cure, or even an effective treatment, aren't good.

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## bigentries

As much as people complain about evil Big Pharma, I'm pretty sure cosmetic companies are the ones that get the vast majority of profit from the hair loss sufferers

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## beatinghairloss

> Because its a cosmetics product, not a medicine.


 thats not a very good reason.

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## rm056789

> Nobody can explain scientifically from a media article. Even if we were experts in the field we'd need the peer-reviewed published paper and the full data set to refute it.
> 
> The argument is not scientific but logical. It's being marketed as a cosmetic which means a) they don't have to prove efficacy and b) they can't market it as a hair loss treatment in the US - the single biggest market.
> 
> Do you honestly think that if they had something that could demonstrate clear clinical efficacy and get FDA approval, allowing marketing in the US, they wouldn't do it?
> 
> We can't say for sure it won't work, and there may be some limited effect on women or very early stage NWs, but the odds of this being a cure, or even an effective treatment, aren't good.


 Just as their choice to market this product as a cosmetic (logical and calculated). Seeing a product from design all the way through clinical trials is close to a billion dollar venture. L'Oreal's decision is likely a very smart one, it would take another 3-5 years to complete phase III trials for a new product and by marketing as a cosmetic, they avoid all the red tape/costs. 

I agree with you, one can't argue/confirm these results until they are published in a peer reviewed journal (which won't likely happen due to publishing constraints within industry). Seeing some data would be nice though...

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## Tracy C

> if i were to use this product for a year and document my progress (which would be non-existent of course)
> could i sue l'oreal for false advertising and get millions of dollars?


 Probably not.  There are not claiming efficacy, they are only implying it.

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## NeedHairASAP

http://www.renokin.com/




neogenic is renokin

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## Kirby_

You know what I most hate about these blatant snake-oil products? They give hairloss treatments as a whole a bad name. Think of how many men are put of Propecia and other legit treatments because they try some unproven, useless piece of crap and then assume everything else is useless, then give up when they have a fighting chance to save their hair...

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## yeahyeahyeah

> You know what I most hate about these blatant snake-oil products? They give hairloss treatments as a whole a bad name. Think of how many men are put of Propecia and other legit treatments because they try some unproven, useless piece of crap and then assume everything else is useless, then give up when they have a fighting chance to save their hair...


 http://www.renokin.com/index.php?pgn...me/sub_in_vivo

Before - after pics.

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## bananana

Can someone comment on these results, assuming they're right. Visually, i don't see a big difference, I see somewhere there are 2 hairs instead of one.

What do we know about this product?

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## Hairismylife

> http://www.renokin.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> neogenic is renokin


 
Reli?
Any source?

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## Pate

> Reli?
> Any source?


 They're different products from what I can tell.

Renokin's ingredients list three growth factors which appear to have been mistranslated from the Korean but are apparently Noggin, Keramin-2 and one of the wnts.

Stemoxydine is completely different from what we know so far.

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## Hairismylife

> They're different products from what I can tell.
> 
> Renokin's ingredients list three growth factors which appear to have been mistranslated from the Korean but are apparently Noggin, Keramin-2 and one of the wnts.
> 
> Stemoxydine is completely different from what we know so far.


 So, Renokin works?

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## NotBelievingIt

> http://www.renokin.com/index.php?pgn...me/sub_in_vivo
> 
> Before - after pics.


 wth did they use old guys?

no offense old guys.

The only pic that has any actual noticable (at such short lengths) hair is subject 2, the B photo.

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## UK_

> http://www.renokin.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> neogenic is renokin


 One company is based in Korea with an unheard of background, the other is a massive corporation which attends the same hair conventions as Replicel and other pioneers of hair loss treatments (EHRS).

I understand your frustration with the current state of treatments in this industry, but unless you have any solid proof to back up your assertions, dont make any.

I can tell you all now, there's no way any company has placed wnt proteins of the sort you're thinking into a shampoo and cured hair loss, I was in stitches back in 2008 when I first heard of Renokin, I still am in all fairness.

Yes Replicel and representatives of L'Oreals 'neogenic' were both presenting at the EHRS in Barcelona this month.

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## Pate

> So, Renokin works?


 Doubt it. Just because it contains growth factors doesn't mean anything.

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## UK_

> Doubt it. Just because it contains growth factors doesn't mean anything.


 I wonder how many people actually take the stuff to a lab and see what it contains, probably green tea extract mixed with some saw palmetto and Korean ginseng :Big Grin: .

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## Follicle Death Row

Nothing to see here. Move along.  :Smile:

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## gutted

they seemed to have targeted this to androgenetic alopecia patients from the articles that are present on the net.

Still, I will definiteley try it out for my temples when it is released.

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## Sogeking

> they seemed to have targeted this to androgenetic alopecia patients from the articles that are present on the net.
> 
> Still, I will definiteley try it out for my temples when it is released.


 Would be mighty grateful if you would take before and after pictures when trying it and let us know.  :Smile:

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## Jcm800

I'll have a punt on it myself when it's realised what the hell.

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## UK_

I'd love to see the presentation they did at the EHRS.

It seems like that was the point of revelation, because nobody said a word about it before then.

All of a sudden we apparently have something that can reactivate dormant follicles (what we were all dreaming of last january after Dr Cots' results were released).

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## Gjm127

I'm definitely trying this when it comes out.
It IS L'Oreal after all... They can't bullshit their customers this easy.

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## Kiwi

> I'd love to see the presentation they did at the EHRS.
> 
> It seems like that was the point of revelation, because nobody said a word about it before the EHRS.


 I want to see it too. Where the heck do we get our hands on this :P

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## Kiwi

What I like about these guys being in the race is that THEY ARE IN THE RACE.

This means that Histogen and Aderans all need to up their game. In this case competition is very very good for us.

At the end of the day, I agree with Tracy, this aint going to be the magic cure, a personally don't think it'll come as a topical, we need needles in our head... doing crazy shit with Stem cells...

The only people I hate more then SkinMedica right now are religious c-o-c-k suckers that fight stem cell research... they can all burn in a bit of lava, or drown in a pool of concrete for all I care... there aint no hell!!

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## Kiwi

Hmmm sorry. That was a bit of a rant. 

:P

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## BoSox

How amazing would it be if L'Oreal shocks us all? 

 :Smile:

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## gutted

septembers a long way away!

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## Hairismylife

> How amazing would it be if L'Oreal shocks us all?


 I have little expectation

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## bearhard

> What I like about these guys being in the race is that THEY ARE IN THE RACE.
> 
> This means that Histogen and Aderans all need to up their game. In this case competition is very very good for us.
> 
> At the end of the day, I agree with Tracy, this aint going to be the magic cure, a personally don't think it'll come as a topical, we need needles in our head... doing crazy shit with Stem cells...
> 
> The only people I hate more then SkinMedica right now are religious c-o-c-k suckers that fight stem cell research... they can all burn in a bit of lava, or drown in a pool of concrete for all I care... there aint no hell!!


 Amen to that!

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## Dazza

Surely they must of had trials done?

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## yeahyeahyeah

So is this shit like minoxidil, I don't quite understand how it works.

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## gutted

> Surely they must of had trials done?


 they state it was -

"tested in in vitro models. Clinical studies was also performed to confirm efficacy in vivo."

http://www.cosmeticsdesign-europe.co...e-hair-density

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## gutted

> So is this shit like minoxidil, I don't quite understand how it works.


 i dont think anyone quite understands how it works based on limited amount of info available.

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## 2020

"According to Josserand, like hypoxic culturing conditions, *stemoxydine impacts the regenerative potential of hair-derived stem cells*, and can increase capillary density in human volunteers."

permanent regrowth huh? If this is just another minoxidil where gains are lost then I'm not interested... moving on

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## UK_

> "According to Josserand, like hypoxic culturing conditions, *stemoxydine impacts the regenerative potential of hair-derived stem cells*, and can increase capillary density in human volunteers."
> 
> permanent regrowth huh? If this is just another minoxidil where gains are lost then I'm not interested... moving on


 Meh...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20203417

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## 2020

> Meh...
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20203417


 meh what? It doesn't say if the growth would be permanent, growth factors are secreted all the time. What makes a follicle truly go back in time that's what I want to know  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## UK_

> meh what? It doesn't say if the growth would be permanent, growth factors are secreted all the time. *What makes a follicle truly go back in time that's what I want to know*


 Well we all know the answer to that, you'd need a fully functional Flux Capacitor.

Nobody has stated the growth would be permanent, but then again nobody has proved that the growth would not be permanent.

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## thechamp

If it does I say bring it on and who cares if it works I would use it every day.

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## UK_

> If it does I say bring it on and who cares if it works I would use it every day.


 What, the flux capacitor?

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## gutted

> Well we all know the answer to that, you'd need a fully functional Flux Capacitor.
> 
> Nobody has stated the growth would be permanent, but then again nobody has proved that the growth would not be permanent.


 the same can be said for minox.

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## UK_

> the same can be said for minox.


 I think we can safely say that the effects of minox for the majority of patients are finite.

We dont know if that's the case for neogenic, nobody does.

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## gutted

> I think we can safely say that the effects of minox for the majority of patients are finite.
> 
> We dont know if that's the case for neogenic, nobody does.


 still not proven.

minox holds the key to curing baldness.

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## UK_

> still not proven.
> 
> minox holds the key to curing baldness.


 No hair loss drug has proof of indefinite efficacy - I dont understand your point, you say "the same can be said for minox", but that only serves to support my initial statement about us not making speculations into what the drug can/can't do.

Do I think this drug [neogenic] can grow hair on slick bald scalps?  Hell no.

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## gutted

> No hair loss drug has proof of indefinite efficacy - I dont understand your point, you say "the same can be said for minox", but that only serves to support my initial statement about us not making speculations into what the drug can/can't do.
> 
> Do I think this drug [neogenic] can grow hair on slick bald scalps?  Hell no.


 yes and i agree with you there is not much info available on this treatment.

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## randomman111

> Thats BS ...
> 
> They registered it as a cosmetic. That means, not even that it is not guaranteed to have any affect, according to the laws in europe it is not even allowed to have one !
> 
> Also the company statements is full of may's and might's ...


 Propecia and minoxidil were marketed as medicines because they were actually medicines before becoming marketed for hair loss drugs, this product doesn't necessarily need to be marketed as a medicine

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## randomman111

> If someone can explain scientifically why this won't be any good I'm all ears/eyes.


 its shown efficacy in in-vitro tests, and they say they also did human tests, if it didn't work in-vitro they wouldn't have done human tests, and again if it didn't work in human tests they wouldn't have decided to file for a patent (COSTING LOTS) and again bringing the product out onto the marker (ALSO COSTING LOTS), I am hopeful

(i've studied drug developement at university)

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## UK_

^^ I agree .... do you people really think they called everyones bluff at the EHRS?  I doubt it.

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## Dazza

They have the money to call peoples bluff  :Smile:  

I dont know what to think about this new topical? shampoo? i guess i need to see some results

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## ccmethinning

It is obviously going to be crap.

Shampoos from companies like L'Oreal never do crap. They sure as hell don't do anything at all to make your hair shinier, thicker, or less frizzy like they say on the commercials. If they can't do those seemingly simple things, how the heck is L'Oreal going to help with hair loss. 

They are going to make another $8 bottle of shampoo, slap a hair loss label on it, market it on commercials with amazing computer assisted transformations, and have another cash cow product by taking advantage of naive consumers.

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## Dazza

$8 bottle of shampoo? 

There estimating it at around 90. Tho I agree, just seems a bit of a blag. Tho there is no results out yet, all done inhouse. it could be a better minoxidil for all we know.

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## Kirby_

I highly doubt that this product will work at all for MPB (it's cosmetics rather than medicine) but it should be tried to at least rule it out completely.

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## Pate

Because it's a cosmetic they don't even have to prove it works. They will publish a few snippets heavy on spin and short on proof, but that's it.

I have no doubt they have done a lot of research and come up with a model that should, in theory, have some effect on hair loss. It probably will show some efficacy, particularly in women and early NWs.

But I just think that once again MPB will prove too tough a nut to crack by this method. Once you have proper MPB-miniaturised hair (instead of very early stage) this will struggle.

As for the argument over whether it's permanent or not... who the f--k cares?! If this stuff grew back my hair fully I'd spend 90 Euros a month for the rest of my life and apply it twice a day if I had to. And I'm willing to bet most of the rest of you would too.

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## 67mph

Spencer had a tweet to this thread recently, not like him to do that but then again he's not a massive Tweeter, anyway, just wondering what people thought, do you think that he thinks there is some chance this can give some 'OK' results, enough to tweet it?

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## Maradona

> Spencer had a tweet to this thread recently, not like him to do that but then again he's not a massive Tweeter, anyway, just wondering what people thought, do you think that he thinks there is some chance this can give some 'OK' results, enough to tweet it?


 Cosmetic product, no FDA trials, nothing from this.

I thought this site was better than that.

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## 67mph

> Cosmetic product, no FDA trials, nothing from this.
> 
> I thought this site was better than that.


 ...and with that ladies and gents, the hand of god has spoken!

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## MrBlonde

Wouldn't it be amazing if this product actually worked and with no sides.

I know I'm clutching at straws here and there is about as much chance of this working as there is a vegetarian pitbull but can you just imagine if it actually did what it says on the tin (or bottle).  Awakening sleeping hair cells.

It would at least tide us over until Histogen or even better be a cure for early norwoods.

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## jpm

> Wouldn't it be amazing if this product actually worked and with no sides.
> 
> I know I'm clutching at straws here and there is about as much chance of this working as there is a vegetarian pitbull but can you just imagine if it actually did what it says on the tin (or bottle).  Awakening sleeping hair cells.
> 
> It would at least tide us over until Histogen or even better be a cure for early norwoods.


 I doubt it works, but im hoping im wrong. Look forward to seeing some real life testing before we automatically chuck it in the snake oil category

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## Dazza

I admit, I would laugh my ass of if loreal of all people made a product that actually worked for hairloss. There first hairloss treatment was terrible.

Even if you read the report there scientists don't sound convinced. Too many "hopefullys" and "if this works"

But like I said before you never know, highly unlikely but there is that 0.1%

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## yeahyeahyeah

> I doubt it works, but im hoping im wrong. Look forward to seeing some real life testing before we automatically chuck it in the snake oil category


 Won't it be released in September?

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## yeahyeahyeah

> I admit, I would laugh my ass of if loreal of all people made a product that actually worked for hairloss. There first hairloss treatment was terrible.
> 
> Even if you read the report there scientists don't sound convinced. Too many "hopefullys" and "if this works"
> 
> But like I said before you never know, highly unlikely but there is that 0.1%


 Well, not too far fetched either.

Loreal have not only the capital, but the resources behind them to create a viable hairloss product.

If however they were a small start up, then yeah, snake oil all the way.

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## thechamp

It might be better than nirozil

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## Dazza

Estimated at 90 a bottle you would want it to be better than nizoral. 

Hopefully more big name company's will jump on the balding market. There is alot of money to be made!!

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## ferwin

Since I have my own theory: the price triggers the placebo effect.
And that is exactly what they intend - & nice side effect on their Balance Sheet.
f

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## jpm

> It might be better than nirozil


 Nizoral isn't great, but beacuse its so cheap and you only use it twice a week a 5 quid bottle can last 3 months. 

But they are charging 90 a bottle then it better be significantly better than niz

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## NeedHairASAP

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/ar...ancing-scandal



loreal would is legit... we can trust them...

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## gmonasco

> loreal would is legit... we can trust them...


 The article you reference is about the private actions of a L'Oréal shareholder, not the company itself.

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## MrBlonde

I can't see anything evidence online or in the original article that states this product will be with us in September, bar the thread title.

Is this really hitting the shelves/sites in September?

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## Dazza

http://www.cosmeticsdesign-europe.co...e-hair-density

has the planned date and estimated cost.

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## MrBlonde

> http://www.cosmeticsdesign-europe.co...e-hair-density
> 
> has the planned date and estimated cost.


 Wow right there in the Sub title and I missed it  :Stick Out Tongue: 

My bad.

Fingers crossed that it actually works.

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## NeedHairASAP

so.... do they have pictures? or even one single picture.....? or.... 

I wouldn't hold my breath on this one guys




Ima bee Gho as a muthaf#cka soon

gho mode b*tch

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## MrBlonde

> so.... do they have pictures? or even one single picture.....? or.... 
> 
> I wouldn't hold my breath on this one guys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ima bee Gho as a muthaf#cka soon
> 
> gho mode b*tch


 Dr. Gho?  He is considered one of the best yes?  Do you mind if I ask how many treatments

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## yeahyeahyeah

http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/bie...12-2083376.php




> According to clinical study for three months of 101 men aged 18 to 55, with hair loss is quite large and localized, the treatment has increased their capillary density by 4% , a gain of 1,700 hair.


 Snake oil?

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## UK_

> http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/bie...12-2083376.php
> 
> 
> 
> Snake oil?


 Oh great - no new hair just expanded capillary.

We have a new snake oil weak minoxidil to use.

What a ****ing rip off - 79 euros a month and wont even help people who have full hair loss.  whats the point?  Might aswel take minox lol.

This treatment will not grow new hair lol - it's not going to be effective in the areas we need it to be, oh well... we had our hopes lifted for a few weeks by more bullshit hype thanks to annoying journalists trying to hit their targets by lying.

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## MrBlonde

> Oh great - no new hair just expanded capillary.
> 
> We have a new snake oil weak minoxidil to use.
> 
> What a ****ing rip off - 79 euros a month and wont even help people who have full hair loss.  whats the point?  Might aswel take minox lol.
> 
> This treatment will not grow new hair lol - it's not going to be effective in the areas we need it to be, oh well... we had our hopes lifted for a few weeks by more bullshit hype thanks to annoying journalists trying to hit their targets by lying.


 
Will it be any good for early Norwoods looking to maintain such as myself though?  Lets not bash it all together before it has touched a single head.

If it was as effective as Minox without the headaches, skin aging and various other sides some people claim come with Minox wouldn't that be progress and who knows it may encourage Loreal to invest more money on developing future treatments.

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## ulanude

Sounds like Loreal want to get their piece of cake...

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/bie...12-2083376.php
> 
> 
> 
> Snake oil?


 1,700 new hairs or 4% density? how are these the same thing?

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> 1,700 new hairs or 4% density? how are these the same thing?


 I dont know.

----------


## UK_

> Will it be any good for early Norwoods looking to maintain such as myself though?  Lets not bash it all together before it has touched a single head.
> 
> If it was as effective as Minox without the headaches, skin aging and various other sides some people claim come with Minox wouldn't that be progress and who knows it may encourage Loreal to invest more money on developing future treatments.


 Up to you but it looks like a rehash of their old 'Aminexil' product they released 5 years ago:

http://www.feelunique.com/p/LOreal-P...FccLfAodBSucMA

Same price, same bullshit promises.

The lead researcher is probably sitting in his office smoking a cigar looking like Mr T with all his gold chains an gold teeth.

----------


## Kirby_

The trademarked 'special ingredient' of this snake oil is called Stemoxydine.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Up to you but it looks like a rehash of their old 'Aminexil' product they released 5 years ago:
> 
> http://www.feelunique.com/p/LOreal-P...FccLfAodBSucMA
> 
> Same price, same bullshit promises.
> 
> The lead researcher is probably sitting in his office smoking a cigar looking like Mr T with all his gold chains an gold teeth.


 There is no minox in this one

----------


## UK_

> There is no minox in this one


 Aminexil doesnt contain minox - it contains "Aminexil SP94" - which is a patented molecule by Loreal just like stemoxybullshitdine.

----------


## UK_

> The trademarked 'special ingredient' of this snake oil is called Stemoxydine.


 No it's called Stemoxybullshitdine.

They also have a second patened formula due out in September 2089 called Stemoxylyingcorporatescumbagwankersdine.

I cant wait for that one.

Corporations are the same as banks, they make their products sound all sophisticated... like hedge fund managers selling you _"corporate secure long term investment growth mortgage stability funds"_.... sounds good & safe yeh?  In reality you are buying a sub-prime investment for a convict who just purchased a house worth $400,000.

CaChing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHhzi8PvDYw

----------


## MrBlonde

Well if it helps me maintain what I got I will be more than happy to fork out for this and if it adds extra thickness to I will be delighted.

I don't know the science behind expanding the capillarys or the advantages tbh but if someone would be kind enough to give me the skinny on it.

Will it thicken exisiting hair and give recently closed capillarys the ability to regrow hair?

Or is just going to give what you have extra body but not save it from the ravages of MPB, i.e it will look great as its falling out?

Or are we all guessing and wondering what can happen here?

I will be more than happy to try this and document any changes for you guys.  The only thing that worries me is the lack of information in regards testing results and sides.

I am a strong believer in the complexity of the human body and that if you stop or reverse something your body is doing naturally then there is 0&#37; chance that it will not have a knock on effect elsewhere in the body.

----------


## gutted

translated version here ->

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...TPC7rvY5lYYWPQ

----------


## UK_

MrBlonde... even though we know this wont do shit... we probably all will buy it too... that's just how it is in the hair loss community... we're easy targets b/c we're desperate.




> Sold under the name Dercos Neog&#233;nic from September, in pharmacies and drugstores, the new treatment to Stemoxydine will be offered in boxes of 6 ml single dose daily for use in courses of three months (price € 56.90 for two weeks, € 79.90 for one month). Il est conseill&#233; aux hommes, mais aussi aux femmes, qui perdent leurs cheveux. It is advisable to men but also women, who lose their hair. Cette nouveaut&#233; ne permet pas d'imaginer des r&#233;sultats pour ceux qui ont une calvitie totale. *This innovation can not imagine the results for those who have a total baldness*.


 What do they mean by this?... can not imagine the results for those who have a total baldness?

Can someone translate this to Chinese so I can understand it better?

----------


## WillhasWill

There is a lot of hate for LOréal.

I don't think LOréal are the ones will be the saviours for hair loss sufferers. From what I've read this product encourages the hair follicles in the resting phase to enter the growth phase. So in theory you will have more hairs in the growth phase than normal, which will create thicker and fuller hair.

But the balance between hair follicles in the resting and growth phases will be out of sync, all these hairs that are now in the growth phase will enter the resting phase at some point. This will mean your hair will be even thinner than normal in this period. Plus, it does not combat male pattern baldness in any way. So these hairs are due to fall out sooner or later anyway.

Encouraging the hair into the growth phase may mean we speed up our baldness quicker. We'll just have relatively thick hair before going completely bald!

----------


## WillhasWill

> What do they mean by this?... can not imagine the results for those who have a total baldness?


 If you're bald it won't work.

----------


## UK_

Doesnt it have more to do with preserving the activity of stem cells by maintaining hypoxic conditions in the scalp?  And I think there's a constant imbalance already between the number of hairs in growth/telogen etc - they dont all cycle in perfect harmony.

----------


## UK_

> If you're bald it won't work.


 Oh well that's just ****ing great isnt it.

**** Loreal ****ing mother****ing assholes.

If they cant treat bald scalps... why are they talking about "activating dormant follicles"??? How do they get away with their bullshit lies?? I ****ing hate journalists and people who work in marketing.

If you're a journalist or working in marketing **** YOU.

----------


## gutted

> Doesnt it have more to do with preserving the activity of stem cells by maintaining hypoxic conditions in the scalp?  And I think there's a *constant imbalance already between the number of hairs in growth/telogen* etc - they dont all cycle in perfect harmony.


 THIS is what baldness is all about! the *over* expression of cox enzymes via androgens and then the damage via the bodys dfence system.

anyway i think this product if it works may help norwood 1 - 4 to get those resting follicles out into the anagen phase, thats if it works. It'll probably have minimal effect on nw7 scalps, people with nw5-7 should not try this, they will be wasting thier money as it will not result in cosmetically beneficail results.

----------


## gutted

> *If they cant treat bald scalps... why are they talking about "activating dormant follicles"???* How do they get away with their bullshit lies?? I ****ing hate journalists and people who work in marketing.


 bald scalps i.e norwood 5-7 have more goin on in thier scalps, which is fibrosis, this results in major damage hence why it wont have cosmetically benficial effcts on bald scalps.

----------


## Follicle Death Row

Can't believe anyone is considering buying this. I'd rather just save the money. This is going to do absolutely nothing. I hope the product tanks so they get the message that we're not desperate morons that will buy any pos snake oil "treatment".

Do the community a favour guys and avoid this product. Of course if they come out with real clinical study results I'd love to look like an idiot and hypocrite but tbh guys, I really don't see it.

All the best.

----------


## UK_

Yes PLEASE dont send the message that we are still stupid enough to fall for this garbage.

I will not be buying this junk - it will just be another TRX2 or bioregenerative sciences.

----------


## Kirby_

The only plausible way that this will work to some degree is if it manipulates PGE2 and/or PGD2 in beneficial ways. Chances of that are remote, of course.

----------


## rm056789

Although not even close to being a model for hair growth,tThis paper may have some insights into the possible correlation b/w prostaglandins and hypoxia inducible factor 1...may be an overlap with latanoprost?  

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18050215

Hypoxia-inducible factor 1alpha is involved in the prostaglandin metabolism of osteoarthritic cartilage through up-regulation of microsomal prostaglandin E synthase 1 in articular chondrocytes.
Grimmer C, Pfander D, Swoboda B, Aigner T, Mueller L, Hennig FF, Gelse K.

----------


## NeedHairASAP

I dont get it

1,700 new hairs is significant.. 4&#37; density is not.... which is it? both?

and the new hairs.. they arent really new are they? they're just former hairs being pushed into the growth phase?

----------


## LPSboxing

> I dont get it
> 
> 1,700 new hairs is significant.. 4% density is not.... which is it? both?
> 
> and the new hairs.. they arent really new are they? they're just former hairs being pushed into the growth phase?


 so, for a thinning man it would be equivalent of having a HT of 850 follicular units all over? ( assuming that each FU has 2 hair )

----------


## gmonasco

> 1,700 new hairs or 4% density? how are these the same thing?


 The original says it increased capillary density (not hair density) by 4%, for a gain of 1,700 hairs.  Presumably they mean that increased capillary density on the scalp promotes hair growth.

----------


## UK_

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...e-for-baldness

Another journalist who hasnt got a clue about what hes talking about.

This is what causes problematic hype in the hair loss industry:  IDIOTS.

----------


## Kirby_

> http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...e-for-baldness
> 
> Another journalist who hasnt got a clue about what hes talking about.


 Churnalism has a lot to answer for...

----------


## kanyon

Is this product a topical solution like Regaine or a shampoo?

----------


## UK_

> Is this product a topical solution like Regaine or a shampoo?


 Yes lmfao topical lotion that apparently will help with hair loss - nobody knows where this stemoxybullshitdine comes from or how they made it, probably rat semen for all we know.

Replicel and tokyo researchers are our only hope.

David Hall is realistic, he doesnt create over-hype and he is honest about results - people take that as a negative because all they want is to plug their black veins with more hype.

----------


## moore

> Yes lmfao topical lotion that apparently will help with hair loss - nobody knows where this stemoxybullshitdine comes from or how they made it, probably rat semen for all we know.
> 
> Replicel and tokyo researchers are our only hope.
> 
> David Hall is realistic, he doesnt create over-hype and he is honest about results - people take that as a negative because all they want is to plug their black veins with more hype.


 Agree. David Hall sound far more humble at least.

----------


## BoSox

David Bailey, a leading UK Trichologist and now retired said, I cant see how this treatment can help. There are basically three stages to the hair cycle: Anagen (growing phase), Catagen (resting phase) which lasts about three months, and Telogen (falling out phase). It would seem that this treatment works on shortening the Catagen phase, which is only three months, and would not stop the hair loss process which reduces the Anagen phase.

Bummer.

----------


## UK_

> Agree. David Hall sound far more humble at least.


 Yes even though Replicel at the 6 month mark beat Propecia and Minox together hands down - David Hall was still humble about his victory - just because he didnt come on and load everyone with the hype they were begging for everyone responded with anger and said it was a failure, like a hoard of dope addicts that didnt get their fix.

Fact remains Replicel beat minox and propecia at the six month mark and this wasnt even a study for efficacy.

----------


## Artista

I'm very surprised that 'Joe from Staten Island' has not weighed in on this important L'Oreal topic.   Joe has been very enthusiastic about its September product  release.  
Please people,,don't castigate him. Joe please contribute to this thread. Ive been reading up on L'Oreal's upcoming product.  I have to say that it is interesting.  Minoxidil works, but only to a certain extent and it too is merely a topical application/treatment.  
Id love it if UFO's really existed too but until i see physical proof, its all just talk right now.

----------


## MrBlonde

So for someone like me, who is in the early stages of MPB, and still has a decent ampount but hair thats starting to get very thin, would this be helpful to hang onto what I got?

Would Minox or Nizoral be better?  I refuse to go near Fin.

----------


## Maradona

> So for someone like me, who is in the early stages of MPB, and still has a decent ampount but hair thats starting to get very thin, would this be helpful to hang onto what I got?
> 
> Would Minox or Nizoral be better?  I refuse to go near Fin.


 

This is the most bullshit treatment ever in the history of hairloss products sold in stores.

Why would it even get a thread here?

----------


## bigentries

> This is the most bullshit treatment ever in the history of hairloss products sold in stores.
> 
> Why would it even get a thread here?


 There's been worst

1700 new hairs is not a cure, but it is significant.

Wait until september, if people waste hundreds of dollars in weird chemicals from obscure labs in China, there are going to be people willing to spend 90 euros on this crap

In a few months we'll see if this is a snake oil or not

----------


## Erick

I think someone from the forum should call in the show when this product comes out and declare himself the guinea pig for this treatment. Update us on the side effects and positives. If there is a 5% gain of hair, then I think it's a start, although that thing will be very expensive

----------


## Knockin on NW4

The average of 1700 hairs gained was only after 3 months of use with one application per day.  1700 hairs for us$300 sounds like a deal to me. Granted you more than likely have to keep using it on a regular basis, but imagine if the results keep increasing up to the one year mark.....  And I doubt the price will stay that high for long. It will get cheaper with time.

----------


## Maradona

> There's been worst
> 
> 1700 new hairs is not a cure, but it is significant.
> 
> Wait until september, if people waste hundreds of dollars in weird chemicals from obscure labs in China, there are going to be people willing to spend 90 euros on this crap
> 
> In a few months we'll see if this is a snake oil or not


 Weird chemicals that at least made to clinical trials in humans and showed results.

Not snake oils.

i can't believe this forum is so retarded to even discuss this so much. No other forum is doing it, you guys really reached low.

----------


## Conpecia

> Weird chemicals that at least made to clinical trials in humans and showed results.
> 
> Not snake oils.
> 
> i can't believe this forum is so retarded to even discuss this so much. No other forum is doing it, you guys really reached low.


 It's just because it's being released soon and people need hope. When I first heard of this stuff on here everybody was slamming it and then somebody said, "But what if it really worked, wouldn't that be funny..." Suddenly it's the most important topic on this part of the forum. I for one am not interested in being let down again, so my hopes aren't high.

----------


## Sogeking

Why is everyone dishing on people willing to try this new stuff. I mean it is their money, their time, their hair. If they grow something those who are realistic, pragmatic and scepctical will wait for pictures as proof, the tohers will buy it and try it regardless...
Look at Trx2 thread, same few guys are still talking abou it. No pics, no proof but if they want to continue buying let 'em...

----------


## Artista

Good point Sogeking,  Again I'll say this ..I'm surprised that Joe has not contributed to this thread.  He seemed to be very excited about this L'Oreal product.  His point was that L'Oreal was releasing it as a cosmetic to 'circumvent' the time and cost it would take for FDA approval.

----------


## UK_

> Good point Sogeking,  Again I'll say this ..I'm surprised that Joe has not contributed to this thread.  He seemed to be very excited about this L'Oreal product.  His point was that L'Oreal was releasing it as a cosmetic to 'circumvent' the time and cost it would take for FDA approval.


 Its most likely a cosmetic because it doesnt work lol.  They will say things like that to make you think its more effective then it actually is, all bullshit greedy corporate marketing.

----------


## Artista

You may be right UK, we shall see.  Ive never really informed myself about the TRX2 products or had followed the thread related to it. Apparently that thread has over 4,300 replies and over 587,834 views. Not saying that it gives it any merit either way.  Without getting into any deep discussions over it, what has that earlier product done?

----------


## gutted

i guess the only way anyone can debunk this as garbage is by actually trying it out.

i will be trying this when it comes out, only on my temples, which have no hair so *ANY growth will be clearley visible*.

The main way this probably operates is by increasing density per cm2 and density is someting which cant really be distinguished by users vision even photographs may be useless in determining if this actually grows hair or not in people that have some hair on thier scalps.

anyway i guess we will know more information i.e studies,pictures etc prior to launching thier product.

----------


## Artista

"i guess we will know more information i.e studies,pictures etc prior to launching their product"
 Very true Gutted, lets just wait and see.  If it does have actual efficacy like that of Minoxidil then ill pass.    But lets not assume.

----------


## UK_

They do this every 5 years or so now... last time it was Aminexil or something by that name, this time it is neogenic.

All bullshit lies and marketing.

Our only hope is Team Tokyo Histogen if can grow on slick bald and Replicel.

----------


## gutted

*IF* this works it works via a different mechanism than minoxidil, which should be a big bonus. i.e it wont be "a for life" treatment, rather a 3/6 month periodical treatment. 

The hairs will probably last a few anagen hair cycles before they begin to minuturaise again.

Bear in mind dr cots research was funded by loreal, and this is what this treatment is based on and it seems to me dr cots perhaps already knew about this "lotion" since he mentioned this in his interviews with the press.

i think we can only speculate right now, we should know more until more info is released by them in the next few months.

----------


## Mentalist

This product is to be made with fruit extracts such as grape extract. I'm not dismissing it but I've heard some real horror stories with people using hair products by l'oreal by losing their hair. I tend to stay clear of l'oreal products.

----------


## gmonasco

> last time it was Aminexil or something by that name


 http://www.theinfomine.com/2010/09/0...ent-hair-loss/

----------


## Kirby_

> This product is to be made with fruit extracts such as grape extract.


 Oh dear, it gets worse.  :Frown:  I can see the naturalist fallacy inevitably being wheeled out in the advertising of this product.

----------


## gutted

> Oh dear, it gets worse.  I can see the naturalist fallacy inevitably being wheeled out in the advertising of this product.


 your not really taking this guys word seriously are you???

there has been NO information released to the public reagarding this product.

----------


## Mentalist

There has been if you do abit of research you will find out for yourself

----------


## gutted

> There has been if you do abit of research you will find out for yourself


 i think you have been reading up on something totally unrelated, if you believe i am wrong - post your source rather misinforming posts.

----------


## Mentalist

I'm not proving to you just because you're far too lazy to look for it yourself I think you're just another troll that craves attention on here.

----------


## gutted

another article related to this ->

http://www.examiner.com/article/l-or...rowth-overseas

----------


## BoSox

"LOreal plans on launching Neogenic in Europe sometime in September. No word on whether or not the product has received FDA approval or if it will be available in the United States of America." 

Would us Yanks be able to order it online?

----------


## Mentalist

I would've thought so

----------


## Artista

There never  seems to be any restrictions when ordering online.

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> *IF* this works it works via a different mechanism than minoxidil, which should be a big bonus. i.e it wont be "a for life" treatment, rather a 3/6 month periodical treatment. 
> 
> The hairs will probably last a few anagen hair cycles before they begin to minuturaise again.
> 
> Bear in mind dr cots research was funded by loreal, and this is what this treatment is based on and it seems to me dr cots perhaps already knew about this "lotion" since he mentioned this in his interviews with the press.
> 
> i think we can only speculate right now, we should know more until more info is released by them in the next few months.


 you think this has something to do with cots??? should we actually be interested in this!?

----------


## gutted

> you think this has something to do with cots??? should we actually be interested in this!?


 really have no idea until loreal release more information.

dr cots work was partley funded by loreal so....theres one link right there.

Also doctor cots mentioned alot about a "lotion" or "cream" in his press interviews...i suspect he probably knew something about this?? but who knows.

i guess its something to keep an eye on.

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> really have no idea until loreal release more information.
> 
> dr cots work was partley funded by loreal so....theres one link right there.
> 
> Also doctor cots mentioned alot about a "lotion" or "cream" in his press interviews...i suspect he probably knew something about this?? but who knows.
> 
> i guess its something to keep an eye on.


 I wonder what portion was funded by them... what exactly do you get out of funding a study like cots? especially if you only partly funded? do you get part of the technology? obviously I doubt that, but does anyone know?

----------


## gutted

> I wonder what portion was funded by them... what exactly do you get out of funding a study like cots? especially if you only partly funded? do you get part of the technology? obviously I doubt that, but does anyone know?


 i have no idea.
we wont know much until they release more info.
perhaps a native french user on this forum can send them an email their way??

----------


## thechamp

Hey guys, I now there as already been many posts on L'Oreal NEOGENIC, but what i'm bringing you here is a link to an article that i saw yesterday in French Press, and giving much more informations on the product. I don't have time to traduce it all, but i'll give you the most important facts, don't hesitate to ask questions : 

The treatment was tested in the SABOURAUD center in Paris, so there is real clinical backup behind the product. 
It was a double blind vs placebo study made on 101 men between 18 à 55 years old. 

A Stemoxydine 5% solution was applied 1 time a day (6ml), at the end of the 3 months of the trial, there was an increase of 4% in hair density on the patients treated with Stemoxydine, witch represent an average of + 1700 hair. 

The product "woke up" hair at places where there was nothing (not even miniaturized hair) 

The name of the product will be Dercos NEOGENIC, it will be sold in France from September, and will cost 79,90  for one month. 

Yea guys... i know 4% doesn't seem a lot, but it's still a noticeable cosmetic improvement and it's been long time we didn't see a new PROVEN treatment on the market. 

So.. it's not a miracle cure, but still far from being snake oil as some people believed. 

here is the link : http://www.leparisien.fr/socie....12-2083376.php 


cheers

----------


## gutted

we'll know if this is bullshit or has some effect by december.

i hope they release more info on this soon.

----------


## johnnyboots

will i be able to get it in the states?

----------


## Jcm800

**** it, ill try it out

----------


## ulanude

may try it but really do not count on this at all. 
found a post on the trx2 blog the other day...

http://www.trx2.com/community/loreal...and-a-warning/

----------


## gutted

> will i be able to get it in the states?


 i think its only being released in france in september - but you may be able to find a an online pharmacy that may ship it o the US and UK.

----------


## thechamp

Trx2 is a scam

----------


## ulanude

> Trx2 is a scam


 no trx is legit. it does work well for me.

----------


## thechamp

I was on trx2 for 8 months started working a little and stopped trx2 is pure snake oil it might keep some hair

----------


## ulanude

> I was on trx2 for 8 months started working a little and stopped trx2 is pure snake oil it might keep some hair


 why did you stop after 8 month? hairloss stopped pretty quickly but regrowth also only stared for me after 6-8 month or so

----------


## thechamp

Trx2 may do a little but nothing compared to fin,my hair got worse tried to get a refund from trx2 sent it back and it got lost so trx2 I dunno I think it's a scam placebo effect

----------


## ulanude

> Trx2 may do a little but nothing compared to fin,my hair got worse tried to get a refund from trx2 sent it back and it got lost so trx2 I dunno I think it's a scam placebo effect


 hmm you know best if it worked for you or not but i ceryainly would have stayed on longer. for me it does wonders. had terrible sides with fin and surely won't got back

----------


## johnnyboots

champ if i remember correctly you were sucking whitfields ****,awhile back.For what its work im in my 5th month hair seems thicker.

----------


## thechamp

Just wait till 9 months I think I go to all I can say is good luck

----------


## johnnyboots

> Just wait till 9 months I think I go to all I can say is good luck


 fair enough,who knows maybe its other shit thats working.

----------


## Jcm800

Champ-I wouldnt  trust your opinion even if you told me night followed day, stick to your fin mate.

----------


## thechamp

Jc how's your trx2 going restored your hair?

----------


## Jcm800

> Jc how's your trx2 going restored your hair?


 I'll give my verdict after twelve months.

----------


## johnnyboots

> I'll give my verdict after twelve months.


 what norwood are you?thanks

----------


## gutted

> Champ-I wouldnt  trust your opinion even if you told me night followed day, stick to your fin mate.


 loooooooooooool

----------


## Jcm800

> what norwood are you?thanks


 2.5 going on 3, not really sure.

----------


## Kiwi

> no trx is legit. it does work well for me.


 Are you on anything else as well (propecia / fin) and do you have any before / after pics. With no evidence your words are empty and hollow.

----------


## Kiwi

> Hey guys, I now there as already been many posts on L'Oreal NEOGENIC, but what i'm bringing you here is a link to an article that i saw yesterday in French Press, and giving much more informations on the product. I don't have time to traduce it all, but i'll give you the most important facts, don't hesitate to ask questions : 
> 
> The treatment was tested in the SABOURAUD center in Paris, so there is real clinical backup behind the product. 
> It was a double blind vs placebo study made on 101 men between 18 &#224; 55 years old. 
> 
> A Stemoxydine 5&#37; solution was applied 1 time a day (6ml), at the end of the 3 months of the trial, there was an increase of 4% in hair density on the patients treated with Stemoxydine, witch represent an average of + 1700 hair. 
> 
> The product "woke up" hair at places where there was nothing (not even miniaturized hair) 
> 
> ...


 Anyway back on topic. 

I am going try this when it comes on. Its expensive but seems worth it for an extra 1700 hairs!

p.s. *Can all the trx2 gheybo's bugger off and spam that thread instead.
*

----------


## UK_

TRX2 is one huge thread... 600k views.  Insane.

----------


## 30plus

Another French website - (Google translated)

http://www.artizup.fr/MesCheveux/Tou...iveau=3&id=413


Dercos Neogenic! This is the name of revolutionary lotion that L'Oreal will market in September 2012 and whose aim is to slow hair loss. Miracle cure baldness, this product is based stémoxydine, a molecule that will act directly in the heart of the stem cells of hair to revitalize and consequently slow down the fall. According to tests performed in the laboratories of L'Oreal one hundred volunteers from 18 to 55 years with significant hair loss and localized, there would in these subjects increased in size and abundance and greater ease of styling. Recommended for men and women, this lotion will increase the capillary density of 4% or a gain of 1400 hair in 3 months. The product will be sold in pharmacies and drugstore and will be offered in boxes of single daily doses of 6 ml for use in courses of 3 months (79.90 euros for one month). A bit pricey though! But the result seems promising and the market so when you realize that today, only in France, more than 10 million people are affected. Baldness affects nearly 2 of 3 men and 1 in 5 women (after the age of menopause in general).

----------


## 30plus

My thoughts?

4% is a pathetic figure for 90 euros a month.

However am I desperate?

Sure am - so I will give it a go anyway. Maybe if I dont eat anymore then I can afford to "keep" my hair thanks to this and TRX2.

----------


## Erick

I want to know if the hair grew evenly or in only certain parts of the head. $100 is insanely pricey for the amount of regrowth. I am almost sure theyre putting the weakest version first. After six months they will come out with a so called premium version. Anyways, I'm afraid I wont be able to buy it since its out of my budget  :Frown:

----------


## Kiwi

> I want to know if the hair grew evenly or in only certain parts of the head. $100 is insanely pricey for the amount of regrowth. I am almost sure theyre putting the weakest version first. After six months they will come out with a so called premium version. Anyways, I'm afraid I wont be able to buy it since its out of my budget


 I'm going to take one for the team. I'll order 3 or 4 months worth and let everybody know.

Can anybody find anything on whether or not to expect shockloss and actually for how long this product has been in development.

If they have been testing and researching this for 5 years or more then it's bound to do something :P

----------


## thechamp

3 months 4 percent who knows one year ten percent??

----------


## UK_

*LOL I am astounded that people are falling for these 'press release' journal churning garbage marketing lies.

The funniest part is... THEY'RE NOT EVEN IN ENGLISH!!!! ahahahhahaaa 

Question Number 1:  

How can a cosmetics company obtain and own the knowledge to deliver a product that even companies throughout the GLOBAL pharmaceutical industry can't seem to deliver?

Does anybody remember the clinical "efficacy scores" of AMINEXIL which was also a hair growth agent released by L'Oreal back in the late 1990's?

Here's a reminder, I have highlighted the important part (the percentage at the bottom):*




> _Successful effects of Aminexil on hair loss have been proved by 6 medical investigations. In one world-wide study (1994 -1995) mentioned below you see the test results for yourself. This investigation was carried out in various hospitals. A treatment course consisted of the continued use of a bottle of Aminexil for 42 consecutive days.
> 
> A clinical trial with placebo; 
> 130 test participants; 
> Test participants aged between 18 and 55 years, with Alopecia type II to V; 
> Treated with a bottle of Aminexil daily for 42 consecutive days. 
> 
> World-wide study of 130 test participants (Hospital Rothschild, Saint Louis and Amersham) have all shown that by using the Aminexil product hair starts to grow back.  It is evident during the test that there is clear distinction between those treated with Aminexil and placebo.
> 
> ...


 *There you go, ive seen sugar pills grow more hair in clinical trials, they're much cheaper too... wont need to pay 70 euros a month LOL.*

----------


## Erick

> I'm going to take one for the team. I'll order 3 or 4 months worth and let everybody know.
> 
> Can anybody find anything on whether or not to expect shockloss and actually for how long this product has been in development.
> 
> If they have been testing and researching this for 5 years or more then it's bound to do something :P


 That's a good idea man, we need an insider to tell us the truth. Make sure to call the show for updates on your progress. Also, if you're taking one for the team you might want to check out this: 
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-0...hair-loss.html
I am sure you already seen it before, but basically there is already like 6 drugs with an active ingredient that attacks PGD2 protein. Anyways, you should be able to grind up the current pills and put it like some sort of paste or shampoo. I don't know the names of the drugs unfortunately but I do know that Merc makes them

----------


## Erick

> *LOL I am astounded that people are falling for these 'press release' journal churning garbage marketing lies.
> 
> The funniest part is... THEY'RE NOT EVEN IN ENGLISH!!!! ahahahhahaaa 
> 
> Question Number 1:  
> 
> How can a cosmetics company obtain and own the knowledge to deliver a product that even companies throughout the GLOBAL pharmaceutical industry can't seem to deliver?
> 
> Does anybody remember the clinical "efficacy scores" of AMINEXIL which was also a hair growth agent released by L'Oreal back in the late 1990's?
> ...


 Dude you need to understand that the main reason that pharmaceutical companies fail is because they want to get passed by the FDA. Cosmetics don't have that problem, so they get to put it on the market really fast.

----------


## Maradona

> Dude you need to understand that the main reason that pharmaceutical companies fail is because they want to get passed by the FDA. Cosmetics don't have that problem, so they get to put it on the market really fast.


 Man can't believe these two scams have two big threads in this section.
It's embarrasing.

----------


## Erick

> Man can't believe these two scams have two big threads in this section.
> It's embarrasing.


 What are talking about, that L'Oreal is a scam?

----------


## Kiwi

> Man can't believe these two scams have two big threads in this section.
> It's embarrasing.


 September though!!!
I pray it works...

----------


## gutted

> September though!!!
> I pray it works...


 you and me both!!!

if this transforms the vellus hairs that i have in my temples im outta here!!!

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> you and me both!!!
> 
> if this transforms the vellus hairs that i have in my temples im outta here!!!


 

obviously....

----------


## gutted

> obviously....


 i dont get why its so hard to regrow hair on the temples???!!!

----------


## UK_

> Dude you need to understand that the main reason that pharmaceutical companies fail is because they want to get passed by the FDA. Cosmetics don't have that problem, so they get to put it on the market really fast.


 LOL a cosmetic wont cure hair loss - you might aswel buy aminexil because efficacy is 6&#37; vs 4% neogenic.

Why dont you buy aminexil? lololol

Neogenic is a joke hahahaha I cant believe people will pay 70 euros for a months supply wdf lolol 4% dog piss.

----------


## gutted

> LOL a cosmetic wont cure hair loss - you might aswel buy aminexil because efficacy is 6% vs 4% neogenic.
> 
> Why dont you buy aminexil? lololol
> 
> Neogenic is a joke hahahaha I cant believe people will pay 70 euros for a months supply wdf lolol 4% dog piss.


 its 4% cappilary density - whatever that means. not hair density.

----------


## Kiwi

> LOL a cosmetic wont cure hair loss - you might aswel buy aminexil because efficacy is 6% vs 4% neogenic.
> 
> Why dont you buy aminexil? lololol
> 
> Neogenic is a joke hahahaha I cant believe people will pay 70 euros for a months supply wdf lolol 4% dog piss.


 Bro. You don't actually "know" that this isnt going to work. We'll find out soon enough  :Smile:

----------


## krewel

4&#37;... *One* french guy on a forum claimed its growth rate would be 4%. And the link he posted isn't even working. Why is the whole world believing him?

----------


## Kiwi

> 4%... *One* french guy on a forum claimed its growth rate would be 4%. And the link he posted isn't even working. Why is the whole world believing him?


 I don't believe him. But I don't see why or how L'Oreal can sell a product and make claims without there being some benefits.

I'd be happy if it merely keeps the hair that I have... going going...

----------


## 67mph

> I don't believe him. But I don't see why or how L'Oreal can sell a product and make claims without there being some benefits.
> 
> I'd be happy if it merely keeps the hair that I have... going going...


 There's hundreds and thousands of products all over the World that sell 'snake oils' of all varities.

Aslong as they word it correctly they can offer the consumer the World!

I for one hope this product does something, i just hope i'm not the walking talkng cliche type customer, who buys into empty promises that L'oreal are after, if it doesn't work.

We're all possible of being gullable at some stage in our lives, some more than others and the more you get wounded, the more entitled you become in not having the belief.

----------


## gutted

> There's hundreds and thousands of products all over the World that sell 'snake oils' of all varities.
> 
> Aslong as they word it correctly they can offer the consumer the World!
> 
> I for one hope this product does something, i just hope i'm not the walking talkng cliche type customer, who buys into empty promises that L'oreal are after, if it doesn't work.
> 
> We're all possible of being gullable at some stage in our lives, some more than others and the more you get wounded, the more entitled you become in not having the belief.


 

it depends one what YOU mean by "work"

propecia doesnt "work" for some people yet it works for other people
the same goes for minox - are they snake oils??...they are for some people.

the majority of people would have declared propecia and minox snake oils (if it WASNT fda apporved, backed by studies) within the first 1-3 months of starting treatment! FACT.

if this has some decent studies which indicates performance then its likeley it could work for some people but the people that scream snake oil are people that it HASNT worked for yet it MAY "work" for other people very well.

----------


## Artista

Thats a perfect explanatory analogy Gutted.  Thank you

----------


## thechamp

It's been so long for something as good or better has come out such as fin and minoxidil, fingers crossed this works at the end of the day we are wasting our time on here if we are not going to try different products!

----------


## gutted

just saw this ->

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...vGvLwJdkG7XBPA

http://www.flickr.com/photos/culdesa...7630542325634/

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> just saw this ->
> 
> http://translate.googleusercontent.c...vGvLwJdkG7XBPA
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/culdesa...7630542325634/


 WTF? is it all ready available?

----------


## gutted

> WTF? is it all ready available?


 some foriegn websites have listed september 2nd as the date they will have it available.

----------


## Tiger norwood's

that application bottle looks like a freakin' spaceship, so if they make it look sophisticated, then people will think that this is the real deal ;-)

Trying to be positive about this stuff, but it's kind a like the same with supernatural phenomenons, gotta' see it to believe it ;-)

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> some foriegn websites have listed september 2nd as the date they will have it available.


 can we preorder anywhere yet?

why does it look like an dildo?

----------


## johnnyboots

> can we preorder anywhere yet?
> 
> why does it look like an dildo?


 Because were all dicks if we order it.

----------


## Tiger norwood's

> why does it look like an dildo?


 

Nice one ;-) when they had the brainstorm before making the prototype, one of the smart guy's said "lets make it look like a dildo, so we can have a cheap laugh at these baldies, while rippin' them of their hard earned money"

----------


## gutted

> can we preorder anywhere yet?
> 
> why does it look like an dildo?


 not sure if you can pre order.

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> not sure if you can pre order.


 hmm.. can we use just any dildo or does it have to be a loreal dildo? do you just rub the dildo on your head? or does stuff come out?

----------


## Tiger norwood's

rotfl ;-) good to see people haven't lost their sense of humor, in these follicle recession times :-)

----------


## MrBlonde

> can we preorder anywhere yet?
> 
> why does it look like an dildo?


 Because Loreal are scr3w1ng us with this.  I guess subconsciously everyone at the company knew this and it somehow manifested itself in their final product.  :Big Grin:

----------


## vinnytr

> Because Loreal are scr3w1ng us with this.  I guess subconsciously everyone at the company knew this and it somehow manifested itself in their final product.


 At least they are honest about it !!

Wankorrs  :Stick Out Tongue:  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## lothar99

Here's a google translate summary from a site I found online:


VICHY DERCOS NEOGENIC ampoules against hair loss treatment - new hair growth after 6ml 14ampułek  

VICHY DERCOS NEOGENIC
World innovation - the growth of new hair
With its patented new molecule STEMOXYDINE 5%
Stimulates the optimum environment for stem cells to stimulate their proper functioning.

Dercos Neogenic indications:
thinning hair
the problem with the lack of a sufficient number of hair
(As opposed to the Vichy DERCOS AMINEXIL where the problem is hair loss)

Dercos Neogenic action:
Awakening dormant hair roots and the growth of hair fibers, hair is visibly thicker.

For the first time active molecule plays a beneficial effect of hypoxia to embryonic stem cells.

RESULT: Wake up dormant hair roots
Sleep phase is shorter
Number of empty bulbs decreases
Hair count increases
Covering the head is fuller

The life cycle of hair consists of three phases, during which the hair grows, stabilizes, and finally falls.
Between two cycles of hair follicles can fall into the sleep phase, consisting of hibernation hair follicles.
The longer this phase lasts, the greater the number of empty bulb, and consequently reduces the number of hairs.

The key role in re-growth of hair
Healthy hair is characterized by a constant renewal of hair, thus ensuring a constant density of hair.
Hair follicles are renewed by stem cells. But stem cells are regenerating power only kept in a suitable environment

DERCOS NEOGENIC - Global Innovation
(5% diester STEMOXYDINE pirydynodikarboksylanu) - solution of water - alcohol
The first molecule of biomimetycznym action:
- Selected from among 100 other molecules
- Simulates the environmental impact of hypoxia
-Inhibitor of the enzyme prolyl hydroxylase
involved in the division a key factor in the reaction of cells to hypoxia

VICHY DERCOS NEOGENIC Effectiveness
The effectiveness of clinical studies DERCOS NEOGENIC vs placebo
During 90dni:
- Increase in hair density vs. placebo = 1700 new hair The subjects also stated *:
18% more hair abundance
16% more volume of hair
Efficacy proven in hospitals *
* Study group 101 people, daily use for 3 months.

VICHY DERCOS NEOGENIC
Universal version for men and women
6ml vial with applicator
Performance: 14ampułek = 2 weeks of treatment

----------


## gutted

> hmm.. can we use just any dildo or does it have to be a loreal dildo? do you just rub the dildo on your head? or does stuff come out?


 looooool

that dildo thing looks like a "fancy" appplicator.

This product may indeed be a "fancy" rip off.

----------


## lothar99

I tried to edit the post I made above, but it won't let me.

It was kind of long, but this is the part most people will probably care about**:

*The effectiveness of clinical studies DERCOS NEOGENIC vs placebo
During 90dni:
- Increase in hair density vs. placebo = 1700 new hair The subjects also stated *:
18% more hair abundance
16% more volume of hair
Efficacy proven in hospitals *
* Study group 101 people, daily use for 3 months.*


I had seen the 1700 number before but the 18% and 16% are new, I think.

----------


## thechamp

So when can we buy this stuff and are we 100 perenct sure this is loreal I emailed them and they didn't know what I was talking about?

----------


## Jcm800

e


> So when can we buy this stuff and are we 100 perenct sure this is loreal I emailed them and they didn't know what I was talking about?


 Sorry champ,  but quite often people don't know what you're talking about. :-P

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> So when can we buy this stuff and are we 100 perenct sure this is loreal I emailed them and they didn't know what I was talking about?


 the loreal dildo will be available for purchase in europe during the month of september.


I'm not sure how much dildo cartridges are

----------


## UK_

> just saw this ->
> 
> http://translate.googleusercontent.c...vGvLwJdkG7XBPA
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/culdesa...7630542325634/


 Oh look - a guy in a suit with hair.

Im sold.

----------


## UK_

You will be the dildo if you buy this.

----------


## MrBlonde

> You will be the dildo if you buy this.


 What are we here for then if not to discuss and try new products to help with our hairloss?  Its a new product.  It may be something it may be nothing.  If people try it and it does what it says you will the first down the shops to get some.

----------


## gutted

> Oh look - a guy in a suit with hair.
> 
> Im sold.


 lol it all looks flashy and markety from those pics on flikr.
It wont stop me from trying it out though as i feel im the perfect cadidate for this to "work" on.

we will know in 3/4 months after release date whether this can trueley "awaken" dormant hair or not as there will be people trying this out regardless of whether they think it will work or not.

----------


## 67mph

Like many other guys on this site, i'm on my 100th + latest shampoo (that may or may not be new to the market) , that promises to thicken lifeless limp hair etc etc ...and does this latest bottle of shampoo (from one of the big shampoo makers), strengthen hair?, does it shite.

It's a shame but i don't hold out much hope for this one, throughout history shamans have been selling rub-on treatments that are nothing but snake piss and we've been forever shelling out on the stuff, snake oil.

We're desperate but common sense and history usually prevails, another kick in the balls.

----------


## gutted

> Like many other guys on this site, i'm on my 100th + latest shampoo


 loool your a bigger fool than most for thinking a 100+ random shampoo can tackle MPB!!!!!

This product is a topical cream designed for it to be applied to the scalp, whethere it works or not is a whole new issue...but one thing is for sure a shampoo will never solve your problem!

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> loool your a bigger fool than most for thinking a 100+ random shampoo can tackle MPB!!!!!
> 
> This product is a topical cream designed for it to be applied to the scalp, whethere it works or not is a whole new issue...but one thing is for sure a shampoo will never solve your problem!


 and the cream is dispensed from the dildo?

----------


## gutted

> and the cream is dispensed from the dildo?


 looool it seems like it? i dont know what else you would do with the dildo? loool

----------


## thechamp

The guys calling it a dildo if this product works you have to shove this dildo product shape in your ass!!!

----------


## gutted

> The guys calling it a dildo if this product works you have to shove this dildo product shape in your ass!!!


 champ your going to use it for 1 week and then give up lol  :Wink:

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

The new BIG 3:

TRX2, Equol, Neogenic by L'oreal.

----------


## 67mph

> loool your a bigger fool than most for thinking a 100+ random shampoo can tackle MPB!!!!!
> 
> This product is a topical cream designed for it to be applied to the scalp, whethere it works or not is a whole new issue...but one thing is for sure a shampoo will never solve your problem!


 Perhaps i didn't explain myself well enough or atleast put it into lamen terms.

I don't believe a topic of any sort will give me what i would like, and i was merely stating we'll try anything and everything to gain hair, that's all.

No need for the idiot reply!

...now get back in your box baldy.

JOKE!!

----------


## 67mph

...Oh, and Gutted, let us know how you get on with this latest potion yeah?

----------


## gutted

> Perhaps i didn't explain myself well enough or atleast put it into lamen terms.
> 
> I don't believe a topic of any sort will give me what i would like, and i was merely stating we'll try anything and everything to gain hair, that's all.
> 
> No need for the idiot reply!
> 
> ...now get back in your box baldy.
> 
> JOKE!!


 loool im no baldie...very very far from it  :Wink: 

there was no idiot reply, it was common sense, no shampoo would give you results and that you are a bigger fool for beliving a shampoo would solve your problems, had you said topical, i wouldnt have replied with the "idiot" response.

----------


## dex89

> TRX2, Equol, .


 
Is TRX2 and EQUOL worth the purchase?

----------


## neversaynever

> The new BIG 3:
> 
> TRX2, Equol, Neogenic by L'oreal.


 You are an idiot. I wish I could meet you, so I could show you how much of an idiot you really are.

----------


## clandestine

> Is TRX2 and EQUOL worth the purchase?


 Trx2 - No.
Equol - Not at this stage.

----------


## neversaynever

> The new BIG 3:
> 
> TRX2, Equol, Neogenic by L'oreal.


 And you forgot about clobestasol. The big 3 is actually a big 4 now...

right?

----------


## dex89

> Trx2 - No.
> Equol - Not at this stage.


 Thanks for the quick honest responds. :Big Grin:  saved me a lot of money there lol

----------


## neversaynever

> Is TRX2 and EQUOL worth the purchase?


 Hes being sarcastic

----------


## dex89

> Hes being sarcastic


 No I wasn't, I'm new to this forum and to hair loss products. Just wanted a honest up to date answer.

----------


## neversaynever

> No I wasn't, I'm new to this forum and to hair loss products. Just wanted a honest up to date answer.


 Not you, "patientlywaiting"

----------


## thechamp

clobestasol any one using this?

----------


## john2399

http://www.hairloss-research.org/blog/?p=297

idk if someone has posted this already but it looks legit. Pictures could be a scam but if not, this could be better than rogaine.

----------


## gutted

> http://www.hairloss-research.org/blog/?p=297
> 
> idk if someone has posted this already but it looks legit. Pictures could be a scam but if not, this could be better than rogaine.


 they are *NOT* before/after pictures of neogenic BUT a differnet treatment from loreal.

----------


## thechamp

Loreal is gonna work

----------


## gutted

> Loreal is gonna work


 
loool champ you said that about trx2! lool

----------


## Jcm800

> loool champ you said that about trx2! lool


 Lol,  give it a rest champ ;-)

----------


## thechamp

Stemoxydine targets this condition, attempting to increase oxygen levels in the tiny vascular structures of the scalp. The molecule acts upon hair-derived stem cells, improving their regenerative potential and maintaining function so new growth can occur.

Miracle or snake oil? Clinical trial results
Neogenic is the first hair growth product in quite some time to come with clinically proven effectiveness. The product has undergone patenting and testing through both in vitro models and live clinical studies, and results have been highly encouraging.
In a double-blind study of 100 men between the ages of 18 and 55, a once-a-day application of Neogenic was found to increase hair density by 4 percent. This may not sound like a lot, percentage-wise, but when you consider the actual numbers, 4 percent represents an average of 1700 new hairs.
Neogenic not only thickened hair, it also woke up follicles that had been dormant and stimulated new growth.
How to use it, and what it will cost
LOreal will debut the new product in September, at first available in France, where the company is headquartered. At its release, Neogenic will only be available in lotion form. The product should be rubbed into the scalp once a day, and results may be seen in as little as one month.
The debut price for a 24-pack supply, or one month of treatments, will be 90 euroswhich equates to around US$110. Though the price tag is a bit steep, its likely to come down in time.
LOreal also plans to introduce other products featuring stemoxidyne as an active ingredient, including mousses and shampoos, in the near future.

----------


## Tiger norwood's

> Stemoxydine targets this condition, attempting to increase oxygen levels in the tiny vascular structures of the scalp. The molecule acts upon hair-derived stem cells, improving their regenerative potential and maintaining function so new growth can occur.
> 
> Miracle or snake oil? Clinical trial results
> Neogenic is the first hair growth product in quite some time to come with clinically proven effectiveness. The product has undergone patenting and testing through both in vitro models and live clinical studies, and results have been highly encouraging.
> In a double-blind study of 100 men between the ages of 18 and 55, a once-a-day application of Neogenic was found to increase hair density by 4 percent. This may not sound like a lot, percentage-wise, but when you consider the actual numbers, 4 percent represents an average of 1700 new hairs.
> Neogenic not only thickened hair, it also “woke up” follicles that had been dormant and stimulated new growth.
> How to use it, and what it will cost
> L’Oreal will debut the new product in September, at first available in France, where the company is headquartered. At its release, Neogenic will only be available in lotion form. The product should be rubbed into the scalp once a day, and results may be seen in as little as one month.
> The debut price for a 24-pack supply, or one month of treatments, will be 90 euros—which equates to around US$110. Though the price tag is a bit steep, it’s likely to come down in time.
> L’Oreal also plans to introduce other products featuring stemoxidyne as an active ingredient, including mousses and shampoos, in the near future.


 sounds good :-)  but the following is a quote from another forum.

"This new hair loss product is a ‘come back’ of L’Oreal’s first hair loss molecule Aminexil.  Aminexil targets the collagen structure around the hair follicle which intensifies anchoring of the hair while stemoxydine has a different mechanism of action.  *The new hair loss product aims to increase hair density while the old one is designed more as an anti-hair loss product".*  Is this product any good for real hair-loss suffers or just people with thin hair ?

----------


## gutted

> sounds good :-)  but the following is a quote from another forum.
> 
> "This new hair loss product is a come back of LOreals first hair loss molecule Aminexil.  Aminexil targets the collagen structure around the hair follicle which intensifies anchoring of the hair while stemoxydine has a different mechanism of action.  *The new hair loss product aims to increase hair density while the old one is designed more as an anti-hair loss product".*  Is this product any good for real hair-loss suffers or just people with thin hair ?


 if this works, id really love to see what this can do on half bald scalps.

----------


## gutted

> Stemoxydine targets this condition, attempting to increase oxygen levels in the tiny vascular structures of the scalp. The molecule acts upon hair-derived stem cells, improving their regenerative potential and maintaining function so new growth can occur.
> 
> Miracle or snake oil? Clinical trial results
> Neogenic is the first hair growth product in quite some time to come with clinically proven effectiveness. The product has undergone patenting and testing through both in vitro models and live clinical studies, and results have been highly encouraging.
> In a double-blind study of 100 men between the ages of 18 and 55, a once-a-day application of Neogenic was found to increase hair density by 4 percent. This may not sound like a lot, percentage-wise, but when you consider the actual numbers, 4 percent represents an average of 1700 new hairs.
> Neogenic not only thickened hair, it also woke up follicles that had been dormant and stimulated new growth.
> How to use it, and what it will cost
> LOreal will debut the new product in September, at first available in France, where the company is headquartered. At its release, Neogenic will only be available in lotion form. The product should be rubbed into the scalp once a day, and results may be seen in as little as one month.
> The debut price for a 24-pack supply, or one month of treatments, will be 90 euroswhich equates to around US$110. Though the price tag is a bit steep, its likely to come down in time.
> LOreal also plans to introduce other products featuring stemoxidyne as an active ingredient, including mousses and shampoos, in the near future.


 the link for this article ->

http://www.baumanblog.com/folliclebl...follicles.html

----------


## Artista

I had just listened to Spencer's live show episode 43.  They (Spencer and Joe) spoke in depth about the L'Oreal product to be released in September. Ive also researched what I could on the product.  I wouldnt classify it as being a 'snake oil' product at all.  I hope that it would be something that would overshadow the effects of Minoxidil.

----------


## gutted

> I wouldnt classify it as being a 'snake oil' product at all.


 The only way to find out is to try it and find out and document results. We will know by the end of the year if this is "snake oil".

----------


## Artista

I agree Gutted

----------


## Tiger norwood's

> I had just listened to Spencer's live show episode 43.  They (Spencer and Joe) spoke in depth about the L'Oreal product to be released in September. Ive also researched what I could on the product.  I wouldnt classify it as being a 'snake oil' product at all.  I hope that it would be something that would overshadow the effects of Minoxidil.


 In episode 42 spencer states: *with history in mind this will probably not be something major, but he hopes that it will be. 
*

----------


## gutted

> In episode 42 spencer states: *with history in mind this will probably not be something major, but he hopes that it will be. 
> *


 i guess we can only hope...

its getting alot of press coverage.

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> i guess we can only hope...
> 
> its getting alot of press coverage.


 not the first time some bullshit caught press coverage.... wouldn't even be the 1000000th time

----------


## gutted

> not the first time some bullshit caught press coverage.... wouldn't even be the 1000000th time


 i dont know. 
We'll only know if we actually try it out. I highly doubt this will restore a full head of hair but IF it adds some density then i would consider this product a slight success, and who knows reulsts may be compoundable??

I cant use minox due to sides and the fact that you have to apply it for the rest of your life...this is right up my avenue, just to boost some density in the frontal region.

only time will tell.

----------


## clandestine

> i dont know. 
> We'll only know if we actually try it out. I highly doubt this will restore a full head of hair but IF it adds some density then i would consider this product a slight success, and who knows reulsts may be compoundable??
> 
> I cant use minox due to sides and the fact that you have to apply it for the rest of your life...this is right up my avenue, just to boost some density in the frontal region.
> 
> only time will tell.


 Curious what sides you experienced with minox?

----------


## gutted

> Curious what sides you experienced with minox?


 My heart felt funny whilst onit.
i think the term used to describe it is heart palpilations.

----------


## dex89

> My heart felt funny whilst onit.
> i think the term used to describe it is heart palpilations.


 Yes, my heart will skip a beat sometimes. Is this serious??

----------


## gutted

> Yes, my heart will skip a beat sometimes. Is this serious??


 im not sure...but i wasnt prepared to wait around to find out.

i think it means you may be applying too much hence the systemic absorbtion.

----------


## dex89

> im not sure...but i wasnt prepared to wait around to find out.
> 
> i think it means you may be applying too much hence the systemic absorbtion.


 Well,  I do only pour it on my temple area and my hair is pretty short. idk hopefully it's not a big deal.

----------


## Conpecia

> Curious what sides you experienced with minox?


 Clan-

I purchased Kirkland's 5% minox foam in early June and used it for 2 weeks before I had to stop due to sides. Very weird headaches, but most importantly my face aged very quickly; dark circles under eyes, large pores, and a general haggard look to the face. I'm confident that my hair can be restored in the next decade, but undoing an aged face would be a different story. Thankfully everything returned to normal after a few weeks off.

----------


## dex89

> Clan-
> 
> I purchased Kirkland's 5% minox foam in early June and used it for 2 weeks before I had to stop due to sides. Very weird headaches, but most importantly my face aged very quickly; dark circles under eyes, large pores, and a general haggard look to the face. I'm confident that my hair can be restored in the next decade, but undoing an aged face would be a different story. Thankfully everything returned to normal after a few weeks off.


 Do you have pictures to prove this, is this an actual side effect with minox?

----------


## thechamp

Be good to see long term results with this if it works

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> Do you have pictures to prove this, is this an actual side effect with minox?


 ya, black circles under eyes and water retention in the face are commonly cited side affects.

----------


## john2399

> ya, black circles under eyes and water retention in the face are commonly cited side affects.


 What the hell..does it really age the skin? my god if hairloss is not enough to worry about, now we have to worry about rogaine aging our skin? Im def stopping the rogaine now.

----------


## Conpecia

> What the hell..does it really age the skin? my god if hairloss is not enough to worry about, now we have to worry about rogaine aging our skin? Im def stopping the rogaine now.


 That's just what happened to me and others. Not everyone reacts the same way. If you don't notice any changes I'd stay on it. You'll tell if there are side effects.

But yeah, that was my reaction too. I was really excited about minox and absolutely crushed when I saw a photo of my face this past fathers day. Bloated and tired. Keeping my hair is supremely important to me, but not at the expense of my face.

----------


## john2399

> That's just what happened to me and others. Not everyone reacts the same way. If you don't notice any changes I'd stay on it. You'll tell if there are side effects.


 Ive been on it for two years and i think i have noticed my skin with a decrease in collagen and def dark circles. Is the side effects permanent ?

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> Ive been on it for two years and i think i have noticed my skin with a decrease in collagen and def dark circles. Is the side effects permanent ?


 I think it can be, but i dont know. I get my info from other people on forums mostly, so who knows.

----------


## thechamp

Females and males

----------


## Dirty Hairy

Will you be able to use this along with Minoxidil? (or even with the big 3?)  :Smile:

----------


## Tiger norwood's

> Ive been on it for two years and i think i have noticed my skin with a decrease in collagen and def dark circles. Is the side effects permanent ?


 I have been using rogaine foam for 3 years and after about two years collagen production was affected and i started to get deep vertical lines on the face from sleeping. I read a post by another guy who was on minox for about 6 years and he had the same kind of sides, when he stopped, the skin slowly returned back to normal. I am thinking about quitting the minox if loreal at minimum have the same effect, and then stay on that until allergans latisse, or equol comes along. I know that these treatments won't be silver bullets but hopefully it can buy some time until some slightly better treatment will come.

----------


## john2399

> I have been using rogaine foam for 3 years and after about two years collagen production was affected and i started to get deep vertical lines on the face from sleeping. I read a post by another guy who was on minox for about 6 years and he had the same kind of sides, when he stopped, the skin slowly returned back to normal. I am thinking about quitting the minox if loreal at minimum have the same effect, and then stay on that until allergans latisse, or equol comes along. I know that these treatments won't be silver bullets but hopefully it can buy some time until some slightly better treatment will come.


 Yeah, i decided to quit minox too. I really feel this stuff is aging my skin and its just not worth the risk. Hairloss + premature aging is not a good look. L'oreal is my only hope for now until histogen.

----------


## BoSox

My thinning is getting worse, not even dermmatch can conceal it anymore.

I hope L'Oreal's product can reverse my thinning, but that would be a miracle.

----------


## baldybald

i do not expect alot from loreal to be honest

----------


## dex89

> My thinning is getting worse, not even dermmatch can conceal it anymore.
> 
> I hope L'Oreal's product can reverse my thinning, but that would be a miracle.


 What's your Norwood?

----------


## BoSox

> What's your Norwood?


 I'm NW2 with severe thinning on top.

----------


## 67mph

L'Oreality check!

IMPO, a 'cure' or even an 'aid' to hairloss will not come from a solution, i feel it can only come from either an operation or pill, look at everything else in science!

Of course, if this topical from L'Oreal isn't yet another glorified 'thickner' or the like, and real does boost growth by whatever margin, then, well, screw it i'll eat my hat and words whilst in a queue for the stuff!!

----------


## new bubble

> L'Oreality check!
> 
> IMPO, a 'cure' or even an 'aid' to hairloss will not come from a solution, i feel it can only come from either an operation or pill, look at everything else in science!
> 
> Of course, if this topical from L'Oreal isn't yet another glorified 'thickner' or the like, and real does boost growth by whatever margin, then, well, screw it i'll eat my hat and words whilst in a queue for the stuff!!


 Hello this my first post but hello to all first.
Whilst I agree with most about l'oreal how they make nothing but snake oils in most of there products, one must not forget that L'oreal along with US goverment funded the original research into stem cell regeneration for hair loss out of university pensylvannia.
So who may hold the patents?  I believe a cure is out there and has been for many years but until these multinationals can find a way for us to repeatedly keeping using products so keep the industry alive.

As l'oreal have already said the lotion is first then other items will follow.
There is a race on now for the first one to MARKET, whoever it is will have first move advantage and be the leader. Many products will hit in the next year or so. On a nother note the economic market worldwide is looking for the new bubble to kick start a world economy and BIO technology might finally have its turn  on a MASS scale.

----------


## gutted

> There is a race on now for the first one to MARKET, whoever it is will have first move advantage and be the leader. Many products will hit in the next year or so. *On a nother note the economic market worldwide is looking for the new bubble to kick start a world economy and BIO technology might finally have its turn  on a MASS scale.*


 your exactly right there!

----------


## Tiger norwood's

A question about this product.It does nothing to dht levels, so will it only be beneficial to people who uses dht blockers ?

----------


## new bubble

> your exactly right there!


 Thanks Gutted.

We've only got to look at whats happened over the last three years in the world and in the Hair industry. Logically guys Medically they have grown a human finger, they have cloned sheep, they just landed on Mars etc etc. Now L'oreal have just recently opened a new facility in Hair research, a cosmetic company who have been selling hair care products since day one never had a hair research before HMMMMM.
We will all wake up one morning and find the cure  on every front page this is the race happening right now and all these large corps are scared to death to be left behind.

Good news for all us.

----------


## new bubble

> A question about this product.It does nothing to dht levels, so will it only be beneficial to people who uses dht blockers ?


 Yes T.N. your right but I bet you that L'oreal will miraculousy have another product that will do just that down the line. 

They will drip feed us, simple economics

----------


## doke

So neogenic and ru58841 i wonder? and this will cost about $100 a month and L Oreal will then be selling shampoos and other stuff to go with it and pushs the price up and profit for them,what about there aminixil which did nothing.

----------


## thechamp

Aminexil is one of the key ingredients in spectral dnc I think it helps stop shedding!

----------


## BoSox

Shouldn't this be all over the news? It's almost impossible to search online to find out anything about Neogenics.

----------


## bigentries

> Shouldn't this be all over the news? It's almost impossible to search online to find out anything about Neogenics.


 Lazy journalism I guess. I was also wondering that

But as soon as L'oreal gives a press release, every newspaper will print it as "the cure for baldness" as they tend to do with any remotely effective treatment

----------


## dex89

So, is this product the cure for hairloss? lol

----------


## Dazza

Far from it dex89 lol. I can't see this doing much if anything at all.

----------


## dex89

> Far from it dex89 lol. I can't see this doing much if anything at all.


 God dammit, when are we going to have a cure?  :Frown:  lol

----------


## Dazza

> God dammit, when are we going to have a cure?  lol


 There are afew companies working hard on viable treatments but as far as a "cure" don't get your hopes up anytime soon.

----------


## new bubble

> There are afew companies working hard on viable treatments but as far as a "cure" don't get your hopes up anytime soon.


 Agree with that, I don't think l'oreal has ever bought a product to the market that does what is says on there labels (lol) be it hair, skin or anything else. But the fear of one of these smaller companies  bringing something has got them all shaken.
Could you imagine the damage this will do to them especially if l'oreal product does nothing, years ago l'oreal did very little in male grooming so they could get away ith bit NOT these days and they know it.

----------


## Dazza

> Could you imagine the damage this will do to them especially if l'oreal product does nothing


 there first hairloss product did nothing yet people are excited and willing to try this one. I don't think they care tbh. When/if this product fails They will just release a new mega ultra better improved version and people will jump onto that, then another after that one fails. People get desperate and companies take advantage.

----------


## gutted

> They will just release a new mega ultra better improved version and people will jump onto that, then another after that one fails. People get desperate and companies take advantage.


 not in these times...they know a very very good viable treatment is literally around the corner, they wont gain anything by releaseing ineffective products, apart from being lablled as snake oil. This likley has *some* efficacy behind it, the question is how much?

A cure for mpb is not neccasary, what is required is a "good" treatment that -
1)gives back pre mpb denisty 
2)convenient - doesnt need to be used forever, but periodically, when hair starts to thin again due to susceptibility after a few years, you use the treatment again for a few months until denisty is restored.
3)available to everyone - if its not accessible to everyone due to financial constraints there is STILL room for innovation.

that is when you can consider mpb cured.

----------


## new bubble

> not in these times...they know a very very good viable treatment is literally around the corner, they wont gain anything by releaseing ineffective products, apart from being lablled as snake oil. This likley has *some* efficacy behind it, the question is how much?
> 
> A cure for mpb is not neccasary, what is required is a "good" treatment that -
> 1)gives back pre mpb denisty 
> 2)convenient - doesnt need to be used forever, but periodically, when hair starts to thin again due to susceptibility after a few years, you use the treatment again for a few months until denisty is restored.
> 3)available to everyone - if its not accessible to everyone due to financial constraints there is STILL room for innovation.
> 
> that is when you can consider mpb cured.


 Gutted - I agree with your analysis, the only way l'oreal can manipulate a potential cure andkeep providing lotions and potions that don't work is if they hold the patent for the magic ingredient and large corporations are known to do this.

----------


## gutted

> Gutted - I agree with your analysis, the only way l'oreal can manipulate a potential cure andkeep providing lotions and potions that don't work is if they hold the patent for the magic ingredient and large corporations are known to do this.


 
manufacturers of rogaine probably hold it.

----------


## new bubble

> manufacturers of rogaine probably hold it.


 If they do, eventually they will be forced to bring it out, NO ONE can stop the wheels of progression from turning.

This will be interesting to see how rogaine respond  if l'oreal has some results no matter how small.

----------


## Dazza

> If they do, eventually they will be forced to bring it out.


 they don't. It's something silly like under 7% of males try to treat mpb because of lack of knowledge and a viable treatment. If the people at rogain had a better product they would of released it to boost that under 7% to a much much higher % not only increasing there already big profits tho absolutly dominating the hairloss market.

I agree there is great treatments in the pipeline, but I can't see it being a mass market topical, esp from a company like loreal.

----------


## new bubble

> they don't. It's something silly like under 7% of males try to treat mpb because of lack of knowledge and a viable treatment. If the people at rogain had a better product they would of released it to boost that under 7% to a much much higher % not only increasing there already big profits tho absolutly dominating the hairloss market.
> 
> I agree there is great treatments in the pipeline, but I can't see it being a mass market topical, esp from a company like loreal.


 That used to be the consensus but the market is much much bigger now, rogaine is readily available you can even buy it from the supermarkets now. Its advertised alot more even on primetime TV. These are the very reasons why we will see better solutions sooner than we think. I say again male grooming used to be small 15 years ago and now its huge It truly is a mass market

----------


## thechamp

Loreal is not clamping miracles like trx2 4 percent increase and stop hair loss bring this treatment on I'm excited!!

----------


## gutted

> they don't. It's something silly like under 7% of males try to treat mpb because of lack of knowledge and a viable treatment. If the people at rogain had a better product they would of released it to boost that under 7% to a much much higher % not only increasing there already big profits tho absolutly dominating the hairloss market.
> 
> I agree there is great treatments in the pipeline, but I can't see it being a mass market topical, esp from a company like loreal.


 that is not the way a business would bring tehcnology to market...

new tehcnology is bought out in stages/cycles to milk it for what its worth. 
Think of hdtv, it was available 10-20 years ago yet we still had SDTV tv's being marketed.

----------


## thechamp

Loreal will work and you guys will still complain

----------


## 2020

wow I'm a pretty optimistic person but I just can't see why would this product work... Loreal are trolls. I'm willing to bet all my money that this is even weaker than minoxidil if that.

----------


## gutted

> Loreal will work and you guys will still complain


 thats true champ...most people want FULL restoration...they dont want a THIRD, QUARTER or HALF restoration...

----------


## NeedHairASAP

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://univisgroup.com/wp-content/up...air_growth.pdf

http://www.neograft.com/photo-regene...alp-tissue.htm

----------


## Kiwi

> Shouldn't this be all over the news? It's almost impossible to search online to find out anything about Neogenics.


 


> wow I'm a pretty optimistic person but I just can't see why would this product work... Loreal are trolls. I'm willing to bet all my money that this is even weaker than minoxidil if that.


 Bets are on!!!

----------


## UK_

> http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us
> 
> http://univisgroup.com/wp-content/up...air_growth.pdf
> 
> http://www.neograft.com/photo-regene...alp-tissue.htm


 So... the first two links say we need hypoxic conditions in the scalp, and the last link states we need to use something like a hair max laser comb to remove hypoxic conditions by taking away nitric oxide.

I smell bullshit.

When will you people stop falling for bullshit?

----------


## dex89

> When will you people stop falling for bullshit?


 Until we find the cure! lol

----------


## UK_

*A message to those thinking of purchasing Neogenic:


You should take all the money you're all going to spend on this rubbish and donate it to Replicel - they achieved hair growth and showed everyone it is possible to conduct cell therapy to treat hair loss.

If we opened up a thread for a donation to Replicel which was officiated by a TBT administrator I would personally donate a large undisclosed amount.  We donate money to charities for health issues all the time, but never think about helping out companies developing hair loss therapies, just think of all the burn victims you might be helping in the future.

Loreal are just going to cream all of you.*

----------


## gutted

> *A message to those thinking of purchasing Neogenic:
> 
> 
> You should take all the money you're all going to spend on this rubbish and donate it to Replicel - they achieved hair growth and showed everyone it is possible to conduct cell therapy to treat hair loss.
> 
> If we opened up a thread for a donation to Replicel which was officiated by a TBT administrator I would personally donate a large undisclosed amount.  We donate money to charities for health issues all the time, but never think about helping out companies developing hair loss therapies, just think of all the burn victims you might be helping in the future.
> 
> Loreal are just going to cream all of you.*


 replicel are well funded...

besides we need at least some of these forum members with extra cash lying around to try this out and see what its about...or we will be left with curiousity.

----------


## Tiger norwood's

> *A message to those thinking of purchasing Neogenic:
> 
> 
> You should take all the money you're all going to spend on this rubbish and donate it to Replicel - they achieved hair growth and showed everyone it is possible to conduct cell therapy to treat hair loss.
> 
> If we opened up a thread for a donation to Replicel which was officiated by a TBT administrator I would personally donate a large undisclosed amount.  We donate money to charities for health issues all the time, but never think about helping out companies developing hair loss therapies, just think of all the burn victims you might be helping in the future.
> 
> Loreal are just going to cream all of you.*


 I tend to agree with you, the more i consider buying this product, the more i hesitate about the effectiveness of it. The price is crazy and last time they released a product (aminexil) it was nothing. The odds are stacked against Loreal on this one, but what do i know? i am just a random guy what a bald head ;-)

----------


## UK_

> replicel are well funded...
> 
> besides we need at least some of these forum members with extra cash lying around to try this out and see what its about...or we will be left with curiousity.


 How do you know Replicel would not benefit from forum donations?

----------


## hellouser

> How do you know Replicel would not benefit from forum donations?


 Theres going to be a legal process for that as well. Donations from the public are probably not allowed. I know this is true for another company called 'Microtransponder' which is doing research on a treatment for tinnitus. They're only allowed to accept funds from private investors whose yearly income has exceeded $250,000 (or something like that). Since Replicel is here in Canada and the country is ridiculously bureaucratic, I wouldn't be surprised if similar laws applied.

I spoke to Tammy from Replicels (shes one of the PR or marketing women in the company) about any help I could give to the company since I'm well experienced in marketing and advertising myself, she declined the offer and simply said to spread the word about them. If a monetary contribution was available, I have a feeling she would have mentioned it.

----------


## UK_

> Theres going to be a legal process for that as well. Donations from the public are probably not allowed. I know this is true for another company called 'Microtransponder' which is doing research on a treatment for tinnitus. They're only allowed to accept funds from private investors whose yearly income has exceeded $250,000 (or something like that). Since Replicel is here in Canada and the country is ridiculously bureaucratic, I wouldn't be surprised if similar laws applied.
> 
> I spoke to Tammy from Replicels (shes one of the PR or marketing women in the company) about any help I could give to the company since I'm well experienced in marketing and advertising myself, she declined the offer and simply said to spread the word about them. If a monetary contribution was available, I have a feeling she would have mentioned it.


 Oh yeah I forgot they're based in the socialist nightmare of BC.

----------


## gutted

> How do you know Replicel would not benefit from forum donations?


 they float on a stock exchange, no amount of forum donation will top what investment they currently recieve.

----------


## thechamp

So let's gamble the stock exchange smart for Norwood one and 2s loreal could be a god send :Smile:

----------


## NeedHairASAP

LOL why would loreal need your donations? give it to a charity...

they will invest in RandD on their own...your donations will not help them.

----------


## thechamp

They patend there product I think this will be as good as rogaine so Norwood 1 and 2 celebrate bald guys sorry!!

----------


## Dazza

> They patend there product I think this will be as good as rogaine so Norwood 1 and 2 celebrate bald guys sorry!!


 Your statement makes no sense. If this product worked it would work for all scalps. From what I can understand this product just awakens your already fine undamaged hair from there Telogen Phase. Which is part of the normal cycle. It's like waking up at 3am when you normally get up at 7am. It's not fixing or repairing the damaging environment withing the scalp, It even says in the press release that there old product ( the one that failed ) was for anti hairloss while there new product is for hair density. 

So it's forcing your natural hair cycle to change. Imagine getting your sleeping fine hair follicles to wake up increasing your hair density then they all go to Telogen at he same time making your density far worse?

----------


## doke

note real socialist policy like robin hood is reditrubution of wealth from rich to poor and that is good but so called pretend tony blair obama are not socialists and tony blair never ever called himself one,he was more towards rightwing tories in uk.
People were still homeless and more poor under tony blair and same even worse under the lib cons in uk.

----------


## UK_

Okay im confused... is Neogenic aiming to INCREASE the state of hypoxia in the scalp or decrease it?  According to this article the aim is to reduce hypoxia.

http://www.baumanblog.com/folliclebl...follicles.html

Anyway Dr Bauman gives his reasons as to why this product is complete horse puke at the bottom of the page.

----------


## gutted

> Okay im confused... is Neogenic aiming to INCREASE the state of hypoxia in the scalp or decrease it?  According to this article the aim is to reduce hypoxia.
> 
> http://www.baumanblog.com/folliclebl...follicles.html
> 
> Anyway Dr Bauman gives his reasons as to why this product is complete horse puke at the bottom of the page.


 yep i noted this confusion/misinformation too.

from what i understand loreal seem to think stem cells need to be under hypoxic conditions for them to work properly...whereas scientific articles state the balding scalp is already under hypoxic conditions which need to be reversed.

i dont know dr baumans source since not much info has been released to the public apart from the press articles which are lacking scientifically.

----------


## LPSboxing

In my opinion it is critical for us to clarify this hypoxic contraddiction.

If it's true that balding follicles are already hypoxic and need oxygen to be re-awaken, maybe the galea theory/scalp circulation guys were right all along??

----------


## gutted

> In my opinion it is critical for us to clarify this hypoxic contraddiction.
> 
> If it's true that balding follicles are already hypoxic and need oxygen to be re-awaken, maybe the galea theory/scalp circulation guys were right all along??


 dht/androgens grow muscle tissue...it cant be a conidence that the galea happens to be located around the areas of loss...but thats a whole different subject.

----------


## LPSboxing

> dht/androgens grow muscle tissue...it cant be a conidence that the galea happens to be located around the areas of loss...but thats a whole different subject.


 yeah but, what about the guys with unpatterned loss like DUPA etc?

----------


## gutted

> yeah but, what about the guys with unpatterned loss like DUPA etc?


 this the thing that contradicts the galea theory.

----------


## thechamp

Australian news today A hair lotion that cures baldness could be on the market within two years, believe scientists.

They are already talking with pharmaceutical firms about making the product, which would work by stopping the effects of a single guilty enzyme.

US-based dermatologists announced earlier this year that they had found that an enzyme, called prostaglandin D2 (PGD2), instructed follicles to stop producing hair.

They identified it by screening 250 genes implicated in hair loss. **** yeh 2 years to go

----------


## BoSox

> Australian news today A hair lotion that cures baldness could be on the market within two years, believe scientists.
> 
> They are already talking with pharmaceutical firms about making the product, which would work by stopping the effects of a single guilty enzyme.
> 
> US-based dermatologists announced earlier this year that they had found that an enzyme, called prostaglandin D2 (PGD2), instructed follicles to stop producing hair.
> 
> They identified it by screening 250 genes implicated in hair loss. **** yeh 2 years to go


 This is just to prevent future hair loss.. not to actually cure "baldness"

I hate when they have a headline that is worded like that. Should be, CURE TO THINNING HAIR JUST BEGINNING TO GO BALD COMING.

----------


## Tiger norwood's

> This is just to prevent future hair loss.. not to actually cure "baldness"
> 
> I hate when they have a headline that is worded like that. Should be, CURE TO THINNING HAIR JUST BEGINNING TO GO BALD COMING.


 "an enzyme, called prostaglandin D2 (PGD2), instructed follicles to stop producing hair."

if they can make follicles start producing hair again, don't you think that it would  be a major thing?

----------


## BoSox

> "an enzyme, called prostaglandin D2 (PGD2), instructed follicles to stop producing hair."
> 
> if they can make follicles start producing hair again, don't you think that it would  be a major thing?


 It would be major.. do you think it can fully reverse my thinning hair? I'm not sure about new hair growth, even Dr C states it will prob only prevent hair loss.

Man, 2 years is a long time  :Frown:  My thinning is very aggressive.

----------


## krewel

> It would be major.. do you think it can fully reverse my thinning hair? I'm not sure about new hair growth, even Dr C states it will prob only prevent hair loss.
> 
> Man, 2 years is a long time  My thinning is very aggressive.


 Well, it depends. It is neccessary to know, weater PGD2 is THE or A key to this problem. There is a chain for this problem and every known molecule that is involved in this process has its place in this chain and there is most likely a starter.
But we do know one thing. A hair follicle has the ability to regenerate itself. 
Since we all know, that hairs do not grow back (at least not significantly) while using an Alpha5-Reduktase blocker, I assume DHTs place is not at the very front of this chain.
On that basis, I assume that there is a good possibility, that hairs would regrowth after removing that "blocking" factor.
I'm always trying to be objective but this is only my suggestion, not a scientific one. So please take this with caution.  :Smile:

----------


## BoSox

A cure for male-pattern baldness may soon hit store shelves. (CBS11 Dallas)A lotion that cures male-pattern baldness could be for sale in as little as two years. University of Pennsylvania dermatologist George Cotsarelis says the lotion works by inhibiting a single enzyme, prostaglandin D2 (PGD2), which he says is the "major" enzyme connected to hair loss.

*And the cure would also extend to men of all ages who have already lost their hair*

THIS IS EXCITING.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> A cure for male-pattern baldness may soon hit store shelves. (CBS11 Dallas)A lotion that cures male-pattern baldness could be for sale in as little as two years. University of Pennsylvania dermatologist George Cotsarelis says the lotion works by inhibiting a single enzyme, prostaglandin D2 (PGD2), which he says is the "major" enzyme connected to hair loss.
> 
> *And the cure would also extend to men of all ages who have already lost their hair*
> 
> THIS IS EXCITING.


 Thank ****, means no longer anyone has to take propecia and mess with their hormones, and HTs will be accessible to everyone.

----------


## gutted

> Thank ****, means no longer anyone has to take propecia and mess with their hormones, and HTs will be accessible to everyone.


 why would you want a HT??? when you have a "cure" in lotion form??

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> why would you want a HT??? when you have a "cure" in lotion form??


 unlikely pgd2 will grow your hair back. AT best maintain what you have, in which case; you have to get a HT to get the hair you lost back.

----------


## BoSox

> unlikely pgd2 will grow your hair back. AT best maintain what you have, in which case; you have to get a HT to get the hair you lost back.


 And the cure would also extend to men of all ages *who have already lost their hair*

----------


## gutted

> unlikely pgd2 will grow your hair back. AT best maintain what you have, in which case; you have to get a HT to get the hair you lost back.


 i dont think dr cotsteralis actually knows whether blocking pgd2 will regrow hair or simply prevent you from balding/further loss...they are still working on this

the article says its a "cure" - this implies the planned treatment will regrow hair on *baldings scalps*, if this is the case, HT's will become obsolete.

----------


## Dazza

> unlikely pgd2 will grow your hair back. AT best maintain what you have, in which case; you have to get a HT to get the hair you lost back.


 While I agree removing pgd2 won't be enough to regrow your hair, adding a pge2 booster could.

----------


## Dazza

> While I agree removing pgd2 won't be enough to regrow your hair, adding a pge2 booster could.


  Tho we don't know if fixing the pgd2 balance might sort the other Pg levels out. 
But my guess would be adding a pge2 booster

----------


## thechamp

I feel like a big weight has been lifted off my shoulders they know more than us now it's a race for all the other products to come out the cure is near!!!

----------


## krewel

> I feel like a big weight has been lifted off my shoulders they know more than us now it's a race for all the other products to come out the cure is near!!!


 I think we are probably the only people on this earth that want time to go fast, hehe.

----------


## Jcm800

Champ you're not even bald,or thinning far as I can tell from your pics, it can take five years for this stuff to hit market and you'd have no worries even then,go chill on the beach  ffs

----------


## LPSboxing

> I think we are probably the only people on this earth that want time to go fast, hehe.


 x2  :Big Grin: 

needmorechars

----------


## Kiwi

> x2 
> 
> needmorechars


 We do represent a large portion of men on the planet - we're not alone!!!  :Wink:

----------


## Erick

Yesterday at 3pm, NBC news announced that the L'oreal hair loss product will have %30 regrowth in men within 3-6 months and %60 in women. They went on to mention that there will be very little growth for nw6-7 about 5%. These results should compound every 3-6 months. In conclusion, they said its worth trying but may cause side effects such as rashes and chemical burns among others.

----------


## LPSboxing

> Yesterday at 3pm, NBC news announced that the L'oreal hair loss product will have %30 regrowth in men within 3-6 months and %60 in women. They went on to mention that there will be very little growth for nw6-7 about 5%. These results should compound every 3-6 months. In conclusion, they said its worth trying but may cause side effects such as rashes and chemical burns among others.


 
mhhh....the % is very good. For example I am a nw3 with thin crown so I guess I lost about 50% of my original density.

That means that within a year I should have all my density back (my hairloss is not very old so the follicles shouldn't be totally dead)........mh I don't know why but it sounds too good to be true....

so where's the catch??

it could be that :

a) as suggested by 2020, it could be acting by synchronizing the anagen phase of the follicles in catagen or telogen.
so what about when this cycle ends? you are left with a huge thinning because all the follicles you have stimulated fall in telogen toghether?

b) like you said, there could be allergic reactions on the skin. That happens with every product though, so I hope just a small minority gets those side effect you mentioned.

----------


## LPSboxing

another thought:

if this product is really able to 'rewake' sleeping follicles, even if only for some cycles, it could still be useful to delay and avoid the total atrophy of such miniaturized follicles.

In other words, it can help avoiding the total death of our balded follicles while we wait for more powerful tratments - Histogen for example.

I think a "last anagen cycle" can avoid the atrophy or the erector pili muscle and surrounding blood vassels that represents the so called point of no return

----------


## new bubble

> mhhh....the % is very good. For example I am a nw3 with thin crown so I guess I lost about 50% of my original density.
> 
> That means that within a year I should have all my density back (my hairloss is not very old so the follicles shouldn't be totally dead)........mh I don't know why but it sounds too good to be true....
> 
> so where's the catch??
> 
> it could be that :
> 
> a) as suggested by 2020, it could be acting by synchronizing the anagen phase of the follicles in catagen or telogen.
> ...


 the catch is its gonna cost 100 euros every month!!    l'oreal getting in first to make a killing  with there attempt

----------


## LPSboxing

> the catch is its gonna cost 100 euros every month!!    l'oreal getting in first to make a killing  with there attempt


 If it works, it's much better option than the thousands needer for a high-quality transplant ( no, i'm not talking about fut  :Stick Out Tongue:  )

at least in the waiting for better treatments.

----------


## new bubble

[QUOTE=Erick;78691]Yesterday at 3pm, NBC news announced that the L'oreal hair loss product will have %30 regrowth in men within 3-6 months and %60 in women. They went on to mention that there will be very little growth for nw6-7 about 5%. These results should compound every 3-6 months. In conclusion, they said its worth trying but may cause side effects such as rashes and chemical burns among others.[/QUOTE

Would like to see the scientific results on this WITH PICTURES. L'oreal keeping very tight lipped on this and only drip feeding information.

30% is a lot!!  We will find out soon enough, september just around the corner.
Dosen't anyone think it strange l'oreal launching just before histogen and Aderans updating with news on there products.

----------


## thechamp

The future is looking bright cant wait they better be selling it online shipping will cost a bit to Australia  :Smile:

----------


## LPSboxing

> Dosen't anyone think it strange l'oreal launching just before histogen and Aderans updating with news on there products.


 It is obviously not a coincidence, the race has started, companies are smelling money and we have all to gain from a lot of competition and possibility to attack the problem from a lot of angles.

----------


## new bubble

> It is obviously not a coincidence, the race has started, companies are smelling money and we have all to gain from a lot of competition and possibility to attack the problem from a lot of angles.


 Another coincidence is propecia is taking a huge battering, reasearch also indicates as well as impotence sides now they have mental illness effects. Not much hope left for that. Leaving a bigger door open for l'oreal and others

----------


## new bubble

> If it works, it's much better option than the thousands needer for a high-quality transplant ( no, i'm not talking about fut  )
> 
> at least in the waiting for better treatments.


 Agree,  I think the new treatments that will come out starting from september will work because these cosmetic firms know now they only have one last shot before the BIOTECHS deliver a real solution to take some market share because its going to be worth billions if not trillions in the future. Wonder what the makers of rogaine will do?

----------


## LPSboxing

> Another coincidence is propecia is taking a huge battering, reasearch also indicates as well as impotence sides now they have mental illness effects. Not much hope left for that. Leaving a bigger door open for l'oreal and others


 
well I hope finasteride, propecia etc will be banished as soon as possible, for the good of eveyone of us. Expecially those who don't do personal research on everything like we do, and just trust what they are told. -take this propecia pill and your hair will come back-

It is my personal opinion that we should regard propecia & minoxishit as some shit of the past. ( but unfortunately I see everyday people about to go with the "BIG 3" )

Is doing a chemical castration on yourself the right way to attack hairloss??? Should we really keep saying 'the big 3'?? Don't think so.

It's the RETARDED way to cure hair loss, in my opinion, and not even effective at that.

----------


## Artista

Ive been searching online to see the NBC news video on L'Oreal ,,I haven't found it as yet. Anyone else?

----------


## new bubble

> Ive been searching online to see the NBC news video on L'Oreal ,,I haven't found it as yet. Anyone else?


 
nope, been trying too. Anyone find it please post link

----------


## BoSox

What would 30% look like on thinning hair? If you were NW2 with diffuse thinning, how much will 30% improve your look? If Neogenics really has reached that. I just need something better then Ro-NO-gain to bridge me to the cure "within 2 years."

----------


## thechamp

Originally Posted by new bubble  
Another coincidence is propecia is taking a huge battering, reasearch also indicates as well as impotence sides now they have mental illness effects. Not much hope left for that. Leaving a bigger door open for l'oreal and others

Propecia agree and disagree I think hairloss it's self causes depression anxiety sexual distinction and yes propecia has deffenitly caused them.7 years ago when I went to the doctor at 23 I will never forget the day he said your going bald that has effected my life more than propecia did luckily I treated my hair as soon as I found out and I'm still Norwood 1 but hairloss is cruel, and no matter what stage you are we need a cure!

----------


## gutted

intresting to see NBC have picked it up...

lets hope after achieving all this hype the product actually deliveres some new hairs on our scalps! just over one week left before its released.

----------


## Artista

Hold on a sec' Gutted...
Hey 'Erick' can you verify your comment on that  NBC report you claim to have seen yesterday in re to L'Oreal  8/21/12~~~ 
 "... NBC news announced that the L'oreal hair loss product will have %30 regrowth in men within 3-6 months and %60 in women..."

I did research it online and found nothing at all. I even went to the NBC website.  If NBC had reported something exciting like that then ABC,CBS,FOX --all of the news medias would have also reported it. 
Are you being truthful or are you exaggerating/kidding?

anyone else besides Bubble and I tried to find the report that Erick mentioned?

----------


## gutted

> Hold on a sec' Gutted...
> Hey 'Erick' can you verify your comment on that  NBC report you claim to have seen yesterday in re to L'Oreal  8/21/12~~~ 
>  "... NBC news announced that the L'oreal hair loss product will have %30 regrowth in men within 3-6 months and %60 in women..."
> 
> I did research it online and found nothing at all. I even went to the NBC website.  If NBC had reported something exciting like that then ABC,CBS,FOX --all of the news medias would have also reported it. 
> Are you being truthful or are you exaggerating/kidding?
> 
> anyone else besides Bubble and I tried to find the report that Erick mentioned?


 i searched but couldnt find anything...but its probably not been published online yet if it ever will be?

i didnt see any reason why erick would lie??

----------


## eqvist

Can you Erick confirm this ? Not cool if you trolling!

Sounds pretty weird if only he did notice this on NBC!

----------


## gutted

> Can you Erick confirm this ? Not cool if you trolling!
> 
> Sounds pretty weird if only he did notice this on NBC!


 it must be available on some online player of some sort if it was only braodcast yesterday, perhaps users in usa can check this out.

----------


## krewel

> i searched but couldnt find anything...but its probably not been published online yet if it ever will be?
> 
> i didnt see any reason why erick would lie??


 I did, it's in German though. Use Google Translator or so:
http://translate.google.com/translat...4%26aID%3D4729

----------


## JJJJrS

The 35% figure is more than anyone could expect. On the link that krewel posted they mention an average of up to 1700 new hairs within 3 months. That would be a massive, massive game changer if true, almost far too good to be true.

Until I see before and after pictures and accounts from real people, I will remain skeptical. But it definitely has my interest now.

----------


## JJJJrS

> so where's the catch??
> 
> it could be that :
> 
> *a) as suggested by 2020, it could be acting by synchronizing the anagen phase of the follicles in catagen or telogen.
> so what about when this cycle ends? you are left with a huge thinning because all the follicles you have stimulated fall in telogen toghether?*
> 
> b) like you said, there could be allergic reactions on the skin. That happens with every product though, so I hope just a small minority gets those side effect you mentioned.


 Great points. 

The bolded part is something that crosses my mind when reading about this product. Hopefully, we'll get more information soon.

----------


## gutted

> I did, it's in German though. Use Google Translator or so:
> http://translate.google.com/translat...4%26aID%3D4729


 thats an article for a german website.

not from the tv channel NBC which is broadcasted in america...

erick claimed there was a report that mentioned loreal on that channel.

----------


## john2399

Is the release date still for september ?

----------


## gutted

> Is the release date still for september ?


 yes, it is spetmeber 2nd in europe.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> yes, it is spetmeber 2nd in europe.


 doesnt this product speed up the mpb process

----------


## Smiley

Being cautiously optimistic. Funny how someone said it was reported on NBC and yet nobody can find a link. If the poster was trolling, that's a cruel-cruel trolling job.

----------


## Smiley

> doesnt this product speed up the mpb process


 I'm wondering the same thing. I'm going to definitely let people try it first, to see how they react.

----------


## NotBelievingIt

They say a lot of guys don't even notice or think theres a problem until around 50&#37; is lost.

So..100 * .5 = 50 * 1.3 = 65 === still 35% less hair then before.  It would still make a big difference though and give way more options to styling.

----------


## gutted

> doesnt this product speed up the mpb process


 very much doubt that it will speed up your mpb.

if you havent addressed your underlying inflamation/hormonal imbalance then you will continue to lose hair...the exact reason why some people believe minoxidil loses its effectiveness over time.

----------


## krewel

I still doubt they reach up to 30&#37; regrowth. But who knows, maybe they do. Even if they did, I would not spend 90€ per month, I'd rather go bald. But that's just my opinion.

----------


## BaldinLikeBaldwin

so I notice L'Oréal decided to market this under their Vichy brand...


I use a nice moisturiser of theirs...very refreshing no homo

albeit a bit expensive


I must say I'm still apprehensive but also cautiously optimistic...if this could even produce Minox type results but with another pathway of stimulating growth then they may have themselves a winner...


and it will be sold in ampoules of 6 ml, how many here use 6 ml of minoxidil per application? I manage with 0.5 ml and with just 2 I can cover my whole hairline area plus crown...

so more likely a 3 months supply for 89 euros? if it's in any form effective then that money is nuttin to me.... nuttin

----------


## BaldinLikeBaldwin

> I still doubt they reach up to 30% regrowth. But who knows, maybe they do. Even if they did, *I would not spend 90 per month, I'd rather go bald*. But that's just my opinion.


 LOL

then you are about as rare as a unicorn on these forums, are you sure hair loss is even an issue for you?


got to pay da co$t to be da bo$$

*#teamNW1orDie*

----------


## gutted

> so more likely a 3 months supply for 89 euros? if it's in any form effective then that money is nuttin to me.... nuttin


 looool i hear ya!

lets hope for a good 3 months.

----------


## BaldinLikeBaldwin

only problem I can't find any official info about the product on l'oreal or vichy website

are you sure it will be available by the 2nd of September in Europe?

what's the actual name of the product? doesn't seem to be neogenic..

----------


## Jcm800

If that stuff gives me back on my hairline even what I had two years ago it'll be worth it for me.

----------


## gutted

> If that stuff gives me back on my hairline even what I had two years ago it'll be worth it for me.


 same here...

if i get my temples back id consider this a success for me.

----------


## Jcm800

Absolutely, fingers crossed gutted

----------


## gutted

> Absolutely, fingers crossed gutted


 yeh...lets hope this delivers!

----------


## john2399

> doesnt this product speed up the mpb process


 If it speeds up the mpb process, why would they release it?

----------


## NotBelievingIt

Question would be, the hair it does grow back (if it does) -- how long does it last?

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> If it speeds up the mpb process, why would they release it?


 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

----------


## gutted

> Question would be, the hair it does grow back (if it does) -- how long does it last?


 probably a few anagen cycles/years?? who knows.
we know it doesnt work like minoxidil, so we shouldnt assume all benefits will be lost once stopped...but its likeley dht will continue doing its damage if this hasnt already been corrected.

----------


## gutted

> only problem I can't find any official info about the product on l'oreal or vichy website
> 
> are you sure it will be available by the 2nd of September in Europe?
> 
> what's the actual name of the product? doesn't seem to be neogenic..


 i cant find official info either.

ive contacted a few authorised vichy retailers. one said vichy plan to release in 2 weeks a few days ago in europe at the same time.

----------


## new bubble

> Hold on a sec' Gutted...
> Hey 'Erick' can you verify your comment on that  NBC report you claim to have seen yesterday in re to L'Oreal  8/21/12~~~ 
>  "... NBC news announced that the L'oreal hair loss product will have %30 regrowth in men within 3-6 months and %60 in women..."
> 
> I did research it online and found nothing at all. I even went to the NBC website.  If NBC had reported something exciting like that then ABC,CBS,FOX --all of the news medias would have also reported it. 
> Are you being truthful or are you exaggerating/kidding?
> 
> anyone else besides Bubble and I tried to find the report that Erick mentioned?


 Can't find a damn thing on NBC, i THINK ERICK is taking the piss out of us!

----------


## new bubble

> i cant find official info either.
> 
> ive contacted a few authorised vichy retailers. one said vichy plan to release in 2 weeks a few days ago in europe at the same time.


 You would think if this was so good and l'oreal believed there new product could acheive the results they would be advertising everywhere!!

----------


## 67mph

> You would think if this was so good and l'oreal believed there new product could acheive the results they would be advertising everywhere!!


 EXACTLY!!!!

Again, L'Oreality check fellas.

I hate to see some guys so hopeful on something so obviously snake oily.

You're all repeating yourselves (kinda like what i'm doing now), 'reports' have gone from 3% right upto 35% regrowth and 90 to 100 yet some/most of you are saying you can't find any official reports from L'Oreal, c'mon guys, pissing in the wind on this one, i feel, and no pissing in the wind on to your scalp at only $50 a month, doesn't get you 42.81% regrowth!!

...just saying.

Ps. Won't stop me watching the thread though, haa

----------


## eqvist

> You would think if this was so good and l'oreal believed there new product could acheive the results they would be advertising everywhere!!


 I think the other way. If they know that it won't work they also know that it will only sell this product for some months. Don´t u think that they in that case would advertising like a mofo so as many people as possible tried it before it´s confirmed on the internet that it is a scam.

IF it will work it will advertising on it´s own.

----------


## new bubble

> I think the other way. If they know that it won't work they also know that it will only sell this product for some months. Don´t u think that they in that case would advertising like a mofo so as many people as possible tried it before it´s confirmed on the internet that it is a scam.
> 
> IF it will work it will advertising on it´s own.


 you have a point: maybe L'oreal is just full of s***.  Only thing these days in the world of internet if l'oreal product doesn't work they will be found out in double quick time. I would like it to work so it sets some kind of bench mark for better treatments but l'oreal track record isn't good

----------


## BGP

has anyone tried putting ACTUAL snake oil on their heads? :P

----------


## gutted

> You would think if this was so good and l'oreal believed there new product could acheive the results they would be advertising everywhere!!


 
the only places ive seen it advertised are some european beauty/cosmetic websites, baumans blog, telegraph and a few french newspapers/sites.

they dont have an offical page on thier website about the actual product, but its probably under construction? but who knows.

----------


## LPSboxing

> L'Oreality check


 That was a masterpiece!

----------


## Kiwi

> you have a point: maybe L'oreal is just full of s***.  Only thing these days in the world of internet if l'oreal product doesn't work they will be found out in double quick time. I would like it to work so it sets some kind of bench mark for better treatments but l'oreal track record isn't good


 All it needs to be is just a tiny bit better then minox  :Smile: K

----------


## 30plus

Massively, massively sceptical about all this neogenic BS... Remember Tricologic anyone??

The PGD2 story seems more promising - however two years to come up, test, approve and release a product seems incredibly optimistic.

I hope I'm proved wrong...

----------


## BoSox

Just think, 2 more years and we won't have to deal with all this crap.

Hopefully.

----------


## thechamp

Originally posted by: lothar 

You're probably right. One of the sites selling it essentially quotes 16-18% density from the clinical study that hasn't been released yet, as far as I know. That much density would be amazing in 3 months but no one seemed to care when I posted it a few weeks ago on TBT. 

This: 

- Increase in hair density vs. placebo = 1700 new hair The subjects also stated *: 

18% more hair abundance 

16% more volume of hair 

Efficacy proven in hospitals * 

* Study group 101 people, daily use for 3 months.


the link at the top didn't work for me and i couldn't find the study. is there anything to suggest that there is benefit after 3 months of use such as

----------


## BaldinLikeBaldwin

lol  :Big Grin: ........

----------


## lothar99

The L'Oral Research has discovered the source of new hair fullness: the stem cells. You can divide and reactivate the hair follicles in the Neogene period. Before the anagen phase again with the hair growth starts, the hair is awoken from his "sleep phase". Recently, the L'Oral research has discovered how this "awakening" can be stimulated. The sleep phase must be shortened so that the number of inactive follicles falling. Plays an important role Neogene phase. During this time the hair is stimulated and passes out of the sleep phase out again into the growth phase.

Vichy Dercos Neogenic

With STEMOXYDINE in 5% concentration

EFFECTIVENESS clinically proven

The density of hair is visibly improved after 3 months of use.
Proven effectiveness vs. Placebo

*RESULTS:
+35% Hitherto dormant, now "awakened" / reactivated follicles.*

Average up to 1700 more hair within 3 months.

THE APPLICATOR

Application
1x daily use. The innovative applicator ensures easy handling every day. Once the dosage is like a cartridge insert into the applicator, without removing the cap or puncture. The product is distributed for peak apex with gently stimulating zigzag movements of the applicator over the entire scalp and not rinsed.

Duration
As a cure for 3 months. The cure, if necessary, repeat.

Massage
Distributed after application with the fingertips of both hands with gentle pressure and massage movements, the product on the scalp.

----------


## BaldinLikeBaldwin

you're reposting something that's not from an official source and is being put into question

----------


## lothar99

> you're reposting something that's not from an official source and is being put into question


 What an unhelpful post.  I have no idea what you mean it has been put into question, because this is different information than the presumably made up "NBC news" post.  

All of the information except for the Vichy event with the photos is "not from an official source", but instead from the distributors of the product who soon will be selling it, or from articles written about Neogenic.  Presumably the distributors have information about Neogenic and the clinical trial that is not publicly released yet, for use in writing product descriptions to sell Neogenic, and for general use in product roll out.  

Therefore much of the information we have to get is secondhand from these descriptions.  If you are only interested from information that is directly from L'Oreal this thread isn't going to be much help for you at the moment.


Edit:  For those concerned about price, the sites basically say one ampule a day or a minimum of one ampule every 3 days.  I don't know if that means 1/3rd of an ampule a day or 1 every 3rd day.  6ml seems like a lot for one dose anyways.

----------


## thechamp

http://translate.google.cz/translate...ermindering%2F good link :Smile:

----------


## new bubble

> http://translate.google.cz/translate...ermindering%2F good link


 THanks that a little more info but I want to see  some real scientific proof from a science journal, this l'oreal product is far too quiet and it doesn't address hormonal affects to hair loss, the real underline cause

----------


## gutted

> THanks that a little more info but I want to see  some real scientific proof from a science journal, this l'oreal product is far too quiet and it doesn't address hormonal affects to hair loss, the real underline cause


 been trying to locate the scientific article that the scientist dr bernard bruno displayed at the EHRS but had no luck...

imo one of the primary reasons why treatments appear to fail is becuase of the fact that people have not addressed this underlying excess hormone problem, this results in shed/loss rate VS new growth rate (from the treatment) outweighs the treatments benefit due to dht(/cox 2) still doing its damage.

so anyone who thinks this will be a treatment to STOP hair loss is wasting money, but it could beneift you for a short while.

----------


## new bubble

> been trying to locate the scientific article that the scientist dr bernard bruno displayed at the EHRS but had no luck...
> 
> imo one of the primary reasons why treatments appear to fail is becuase of the fact that people have not addressed this underlying excess hormone problem, this results in shed/loss rate VS new growth rate (from the treatment) outweighs the treatments benefit due to dht(/cox 2) still doing its damage.
> 
> so anyone who thinks this will be a treatment to STOP hair loss is wasting money, but it could beneift you for a short while.


 .

precisely!!  this is what Dr C. is supposed to have achieved. He is addressing the underline issue once that is done and the foundations layed, growing hair will be much easier to do than presently achieved by minox an Fin. Well thats the logic. Now If the drugs for PGD2 are being currently used for asthma wonder if those users have hair problems??

----------


## Dazza

> been trying to locate the scientific article that the scientist dr bernard bruno displayed at the EHRS but had no luck...
> 
> imo one of the primary reasons why treatments appear to fail is becuase of the fact that people have not addressed this underlying excess hormone problem, this results in shed/loss rate VS new growth rate (from the treatment) outweighs the treatments benefit due to dht(/cox 2) still doing its damage.
> 
> so anyone who thinks this will be a treatment to STOP hair loss is wasting money, but it could beneift you for a short while.


 Which makes it seem that loreals statement saying this is just one of there upcoming hairloss products and the resent announcement from the loreal funded DrC a coincidence. Maybe there thinking of releasing a pg blocker and using this product as the booster.

----------


## new bubble

> Which makes it seem that loreals statement saying this is just one of there upcoming hairloss products and the rescent announcement from the loreal funded DrC. Maybe there thinking of releasing a pg blocker and using this product as the booster.


 Dazza: You've hit the nail on the head. Once you connect all the dots up together the picture is clear. Why this the the reason DR.C is going commercial.
Bio techs firms will report all ther findings in the next 3 months. It will be HUGE!!!

Connect everything thing up.   1. Amount of research in the last 10 years.
 2.The scientific research breakthrough.  3.Real Financial investment.
4. Amount of Bio's trying to find cure-results vary but positve in general.
5.Real race to market suggest they know something we don't. 6.Most will report phase2 this year. 7.Allergan suggesting good news in October. L'oreal with there stuff and other points. I'm more interested in what Rogain will due, bet they bring something out early next year based on DR C reasearch. and on and on and on In my opinion

----------


## gutted

> .
> 
> precisely!!  this is what Dr C. is supposed to have achieved. He is addressing the underline issue once that is done and the foundations layed, growing hair will be much easier to do than presently achieved by minox an Fin. Well thats the logic. Now If the drugs for PGD2 are being currently used for asthma wonder if those users have hair problems??


 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14632179

you dont need to address dht directly, dht's role in the body is to cycle the hair and initiate telogen (hair shedding)

mpb occurs when dht is in the excess and means more hairs are cycling away into telogen (and eventually staying there) and cox2 is over inititated via dht resulting in excess pgd2 protien.

normalising cox2 will allow you to enjoy decent results.

i forgot to add overexpression of cox2 in the skin results in a high amount of collagen deposition which is where the perifollicular fibrosis comes in, in late stage baldness.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18225391

----------


## gutted

> Dazza: You've hit the nail on the head. Once you connect all the dots up together the picture is clear. Why this the the reason DR.C is going commercial.
> Bio techs firms will report all ther findings in the next 3 months. It will be HUGE!!!
> 
> Connect everything thing up.   1. Amount of research in the last 10 years.
>  2.The scientific research breakthrough.  3.Real Financial investment.
> 4. Amount of Bio's trying to find cure-results vary but positve in general.
> 5.Real race to market suggest they know something we don't. 6.Most will report phase2 this year. 7.Allergan suggesting good news in October. L'oreal with there stuff and other points. I'm more interested in what Rogain will due, bet they bring something out early next year based on DR C reasearch. and on and on and on In my opinion


 dr c for the past 2 years has given us updates 2 years in a row now, hopefully the third one, next year will be very very good.

----------


## new bubble

> dr c for the past 2 years has given us updates 2 years in a row now, hopefully the third one, next year will be very very good.


 l'OREAL obviously has the papers on the research Dr C HAD CONCLUDED AND HIS BREAKTHROUGH, his problem is he had to convince driug firms to invest and make the product whereas L'oreal is extremly well funded hence why they are coming to market first with there offering then we will see the pg2 blockers sooner than DrC can bring it. Greed will win despite the credit being Dr C's

----------


## gutted

> l'OREAL obviously has the papers on the research Dr C HAD CONCLUDED AND HIS BREAKTHROUGH, his problem is he had to convince driug firms to invest and make the product whereas L'oreal is extremly well funded hence why they are coming to market first with there offering then we will see the pg2 blockers sooner than DrC can bring it. Greed will win despite the credit being Dr C's


 lets hope this loreal treatment works out.

but i fear its going to be discredited for the reason i stated above...people who dont have thier hair loss under control are likeley to see 0 to little results and bring in some emotional bias and discredit the treatment.

----------


## new bubble

> lets hope this loreal treatment works out.
> 
> but i fear its going to be discredited for the reason i stated above...people who dont have thier hair loss under control are likeley to see 0 to little results and bring in some emotional bias and discredit the treatment.


 or l'oreal know this and are keeping quiet, may even push it back in the eleventh hour until they can address the underline issue

----------


## gutted

> or l'oreal know this and are keeping quiet, may even push it back in the eleventh hour until they can address the underline issue


 who knows..

you could argue histogens treatment does not address dht/cox2/pgd2, yet it STILL grows hair.

all im saying is results will not be astonishing for those that dont have thier hair loss under control.

----------


## new bubble

> who knows..
> 
> you could argue histogens treatment does not address dht/cox2/pgd2, yet it STILL grows hair.
> 
> all im saying is results will not be astonishing for those that dont have thier hair loss under control.


 By that statement about histogen being able to grow hair without addressing the dht and so on , implies theres a more profound reason to baldness thats not been talked about. Get your scalp condition to pre mpb level and you have hair in time

----------


## Dazza

> By that statement about histogen being able to grow hair without addressing the dht and so on , implies theres a more profound reason to baldness thats not been talked about. Get your scalp condition to pre mpb level and you have hair in time


 Or they are just injecting proteins/magic dust who knows that activate all your dormant DHT follicles, making The hair only last one phase. Hence you need "top ups" 

Tho that's just a guess / speculation. I don't know

They might have a active ingredient that Does infact help the surrounding environment, hopefully more details in oct  :Smile: 

**Typing on a iPad sucks. I had to edit this just to make sense..**

----------


## neversaynever

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14632179
> 
> you dont need to address dht directly, dht's role in the body is to cycle the hair and initiate telogen (hair shedding)
> 
> mpb occurs when dht is in the excess and means more hairs are cycling away into telogen (and eventually staying there) and cox2 is over inititated via dht resulting in excess pgd2 protien.
> 
> normalising cox2 will allow you to enjoy decent results.
> 
> i forgot to add overexpression of cox2 in the skin results in a high amount of collagen deposition which is where the perifollicular fibrosis comes in, in late stage baldness.
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18225391


 When follicles in a non mpb scalp cycle, the hairs shed. But then why does mpb follicles shed and grow back thinner? Thin hairs occur when there are fewer active stem cells, so whats the connection? Or are the hairs simply not getting enough nutrients because of inflammation?

----------


## gutted

> When follicles in a non mpb scalp cycle, the hairs shed. But then why does mpb follicles shed and grow back thinner?


 it sheds and grows back thinner because of over expression of cox 2 during the regenerative stage that prevents full regeneration, instead half of it is regenerated.





> Thin hairs occur when there are fewer active stem cells, so whats the connection? Or are the hairs simply not getting enough nutrients because of inflammation?


 as above - the over expression of cox2->pgd2 acts as an inhibtro for full regeneration.

----------


## Batman

hello everyone is there anyone who knows where you will be able to purchase this product in the US when it releases? and does this product look promising for a thinning NW3? any response would be appreciated thank you

----------


## youngin

> it sheds and grows back thinner because of over expression of cox 2 during the regenerative stage that prevents full regeneration, instead half of it is regenerated.
> as above - the over expression of cox2->pgd2 acts as an inhibtro for full regeneration.


 How do you know its an over expression? Maybe its years of pdg2 build up from being stuck in the telogen stage. Maybe the body hasn't signaled those follicles to move into anogen for whatever reason, or the follicles have become damaged and don't signal the body. Your assumptions are one sided.

----------


## gutted

> How do you know its an over expression? Maybe its years of pdg2 build up from being stuck in the telogen stage. Maybe the body hasn't signaled those follicles to move into anogen for whatever reason, or the follicles have become damaged and don't signal the body. Your assumptions are one sided.


 pretty simple

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3319975/

we also know theres reports of drug which inhibit cox2 reverse mpb in individuals.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1498062/


mpb is pretty much a hormonal disorder and not genetic(not proven) but blocking dht is not a good pathway to use to stop mpb due to sides etc this new pathway would provide a better option for some.

----------


## youngsufferer

When (realistically) can all this knowledge be put to practice?

I keep hearing 2014 will be the golden year but is there anything actually backing this?

Thanks a ton.

----------


## UK_

> When (realistically) can all this knowledge be put to practice?
> 
> I keep hearing 2014 will be the golden year but is there anything actually backing this?
> 
> Thanks a ton.


 Well back in 2008... 2012 was 'the golden year' so I doubt it.

----------


## gutted

> When (realistically) can all this knowledge be put to practice?
> 
> I keep hearing 2014 will be the golden year but is there anything actually backing this?
> 
> Thanks a ton.


 who knows...maybe next year, or maybe the year after will be the golden year.

----------


## youngin

> pretty simple
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3319975/


 It's not pretty simple. I have read the whole study and it is not clear in specifying that PGD-2 is the absolute cause of MPB. It does nothing to disprove my previous comment. PGD-2 is always present before the Telogen stage for the hair to stop growing (read the study). It may continue to be present because the follicle is damaged or never signaled to go into the Anagen stage. And with its continued presence it could cause the formation of the sebaceous glands. Yes, blocking the PGD-2 receptor may very well stop the inhibition, just like limiting DHT will (for the same reason). And it may be a more elegant way to do so than previous methods, but it doesn't seem to be the cause to me, its just an effect. And it does not necessarily mean that it will move the follicle into the Anagen stage for hair regrowth. 

On a different note.. in another thread about OC000459, one of the users who started applying it to his scalp said that his acne started going away. That could mean that the PGD-2 was truly being blocked, sebaceous glands were dissipating, and acne was ceasing due to lack of oil on the skin. That could be good news.

----------


## gutted

> It's not pretty simple. I have read the whole study and it is not clear in specifying that PGD-2 is the absolute cause of MPB. It does nothing to disprove my previous comment. PGD-2 is always present before the Telogen stage for the hair to stop growing (read the study). It may continue to be present because the follicle is damaged or never signaled to go into the Anagen stage. And with its continued presence it could cause the formation of the sebaceous glands. Yes, blocking the PGD-2 receptor may very well stop the inhibition, just like limiting DHT will (for the same reason). And it may be a more elegant way to do so than previous methods, but it doesn't seem to be the cause to me, its just an effect. And it does not necessarily mean that it will move the follicle into the Anagen stage for hair regrowth. 
> 
> On a different note.. in another thread about OC000459, one of the users who started applying it to his scalp said that his acne started going away. That could mean that the PGD-2 was truly being blocked, sebaceous glands were dissipating, and acne was ceasing due to lack of oil on the skin. That could be good news.


 "Transgenic mice overexpressing Ptgs2 in the epidermis phenocopy AGA

Given the correlation of increased levels of PGD2 with balding scalp in humans and the presumptive inhibitory role of PGD2 on the mouse follicle, we hypothesized that mice with high levels of PGD2 in the skin might develop features of AGA. *Because Ptgs2 (cyclooxygenase 2, prostaglandin G/H synthase) is the enzyme upstream to Ptgds, we further hypothesized that mice overexpressing Ptgs2 would have elevated PGD2 levels.* Transgenic mice that overexpress Ptgs2 in the epidermis had been developed previously for carcinogenesis studies. The hair follicles in these K14-Ptgs2 transgenic mice were noted to enter catagen prematurely, and these mice reportedly developed alopecia and sebaceous gland enlargement "

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3319975/

*the only reason pgd2 is being hyped by dr C is because its the only pathway he can exploit to profit from its not the root*

we already know different prostgaldnisn are elevated and lowerd as hairs cycle through some are more prominent eg pge2 in the anagen stage...its possible pgd2 is elevated because the hairs in those sampled balding men had hairs that were in the telogen stage of the cycle hence its only logical to find an abundance of pgd2...but its still possible lowering this pgd2 results in more pge2 being produced...*this is what dr c is gambling on with his new product  thats been announced to successfully have an impact on the ballance of prostglandins to regrow hair*

im pretty confident one of the root cause is cox2 overexpression (initiated because of *excess dht*(another roots cause) in hair and skin cells...i think the same stem cells are used to renew skin as well as hair.

----------


## youngin

The root cause is in the follicle. Not hormones, not in our blood. Its so stupid to look at things from that direction, because if that was the case.. the follicles on the back and sides of our head would be effected. Hypothesize all you want, but thats a fact. Tell me hair transplants dont work cause they are in the Anagen stage when they are transplanted lol. The study proved that PGD-2 inhibits healthy follicles as well, so that rules out blood and hormonal issues as the root cause.

----------


## gutted

> The root cause is in the follicle. Not hormones, not in our blood. Its so stupid to look at things from that direction, because if that was the case.. the follicles on the back and sides of our head would be effected. Hypothesize all you want, but thats a fact. Tell me hair transplants dont work cause they are in the Anagen stage when they are transplanted lol. The study proved that PGD-2 inhibits healthy follicles as well, so that rules out blood and hormonal issues as the root cause.


 the evidence is infront of you.

you to can hypothesize all you want...but i am 1000% confident there is no differneces between hair on the top and than hair on the sides and back but of course im no scientist so i cant prove this...but its still easily provable with an easy experiment.

anyway, the only mystery remaining is why isnt the back and sides affected, which isnt going to be figured out anytime soon.

----------


## youngin

> ..but i am 1000% confident there is no differneces between hair on the top and than hair on the sides and back


 I keep seeing you say that the problem is an over-expression of COX2-> PGD2, so many times.. like its a definite thing. The study only shows that its elevated, not WHY ITS ELEVATED in the scalp. It also says its naturally elevated with hair in the Talogen stage. It's more realistic to assume our hair is stuck in the Talogen stage.. and thats the problem, and the clinical findings are consistant with that. Now how do we signal it to change to the Anagen stage. My bet is thats exactly what Histogen figured out.

Heres my total *hypothesis*... over the years UV rays from the sun damage the follicles on the top of our head. This results in abnormal follicular cells which get "confused" and dont respond to signaling from our body, or dont provide appropriate signaling to our body. This may be accelerated by genetic structure. They are then stuck in the Talogen stage for whatever reason. In a situation like that, limiting DHT or PGD-2 would not FIX the follicle, and would not promote regrowth. Great for those people who still have their hair. Not great for us NW6's.

----------


## youngsufferer

> I keep seeing you say that the problem is an over-expression of COX2-> PGD2, so many times.. like its a definite thing. The study only shows that its elevated, not WHY ITS ELEVATED in the scalp. It also says its naturally elevated with hair in the Talogen stage. It's more realistic to assume our hair is stuck in the Talogen stage.. and thats the problem, and the clinical findings are consistant with that. Now how do we signal it to change to the Anagen stage. My bet is thats exactly what Histogen figured out.
> 
> Heres my total *hypothesis*... over the years UV rays from the sun damage the follicles on the top of our head. This results in abnormal follicular cells which get "confused" and dont respond to signaling from our body, or dont provide appropriate signaling to our body. This may be accelerated by genetic structure. They are then stuck in the Talogen stage for whatever reason. In a situation like that, limiting DHT or PGD-2 would not FIX the follicle, and would not promote regrowth. Great for those people who still have their hair. Not great for us NW6's.


 No expert, just wanted to add that the hairs that usually fall out are the ones that point directly upwards in most people, where the sun has the most exposure to direct scalp. With the sides and back of your hair, its all angled downward. Again that could have nothing to do with it all. It certainly doesn't explain temple loss, but it is interesting

----------


## youngin

> No expert, just wanted to add that the hairs that usually fall out are the ones that point directly upwards in most people, where the sun has the most exposure to direct scalp. With the sides and back of your hair, its all angled downward. Again that could have nothing to do with it all. It certainly doesn't explain temple loss, but it is interesting


 It seems plausible to me. If you go outside shirtless for awhile, the sides of your body will be much less burned than the upward facing parts (like your shoulders).

----------


## gutted

> I keep seeing you say that the problem is an over-expression of COX2-> PGD2, so many times.. like its a definite thing. The study only shows that its elevated, not WHY ITS ELEVATED in the scalp. It also says its naturally elevated with hair in the Talogen stage. It's more realistic to assume our hair is stuck in the Talogen stage.. and thats the problem, and the clinical findings are consistant with that. Now how do we signal it to change to the Anagen stage. My bet is thats exactly what Histogen figured out.


 i never said its a definitive thing...i did state i feel like it is, and im 1000&#37; confident it is. Again i did say its not proven (yet).

*you need to look back on dht, this is why cox 2 is eleveated* - this is still a problem too. Science knows that hermphrodites never go bald and castrates can stop any further loss by getting castrated - > dht is still involved, but not as modern day science describes it as...my hypothesis - is that it is *excess dht*...its the levels of dht(or levels of 5 alpha reductase enzymes) in the body over one persons early life, or trapped levels of dht in that region of the scalp. 

theres science that states dht does indeed interact with cox2 and its possible it has a wider role in skin too.

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/conten...ndo;298/4/E838





> Heres my total *hypothesis*... over the years UV rays from the sun damage the follicles on the top of our head. This results in abnormal follicular cells which get "confused" and dont respond to signaling from our body, or dont provide appropriate signaling to our body. This may be accelerated by genetic structure. They are then stuck in the Talogen stage for whatever reason. In a situation like that, limiting DHT or PGD-2 would not FIX the follicle, and would not promote regrowth. Great for those people who still have their hair. Not great for us NW6's.


 i dont agree with this but you can believe what you want to.

funny thing that you should mention uv rays 
-> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9635856

your hypothesis was created out of thin air. It can easily be debunked by saying "why do some men not go bald, despite being in the sun or why do castrates/hermaphrodites never fo bald despite being in the sun" i guess your response would be "because of genetics"...whereas science has already implicated cox2 and shown hair can be regrown using a cox2 inhibitor.

The only genetical aspect that may be an aspect in mpb is the differnces in expression of cox2 between people.

it truley is dht->cox2 that is the true culprit with mpb...anyway hopefully it will be proven by academic researchers sometime in the future.

----------


## youngin

All the research links you posted just agree with my hypothesis, so thanks for that. Again if COX2 was the culprit, all the hairs on our head would be stuck in Telogen, and hair transplants wouldn't work.

----------


## youngin

Also, using castrated men as an example just contradicts your theory. They probably have almost no DHT in their blood stream, which means their PGD-2 levels are extremely low. Yet they proved that castrated men DO NOT REGROW hair. So LOW PGD2 does not equal REGROWTH. We will find out soon enough though.

----------


## gutted

> Also, using castrated men as an example just contradicts your theory. *They probably have almost no DHT in their blood stream, which means their PGD-2 levels are extremely low. Yet they proved that castrated men DO NOT REGROW hair.* So LOW PGD2 does not equal REGROWTH. We will find out soon enough though.


 exactly...i never said they regrow hair, just stops thier mpb straight up. In actual fact they have *some* dht in thier blood but not enough to cause baldness.

blocking cox2 or pgd2 may or may not regrow hair but we will find out soon...
dormancy is part of baldness...as described earlier overexpression of cox2 is associated with cancers and its probably a cancer protection mechanism thats used by the body.

increasing pge2 may help in regrowing hair and if dr c holds the patent to it may bring this out to regrow hair in bald scalps.

i suspect the the pgd2 blockers would not regrow hair just prevent any further baldness.

----------


## youngin

> i suspect the the pgd2 blockers would not regrow hair just prevent any further baldness.


 Me too. Similar to current treatments, just less side effects.

----------


## youngin

http://www.quithairloss.com/hair-solar-radiation.html Hmmm. Guess someone already thought of and documented the sun theory.

----------


## new bubble

> Well back in 2008... 2012 was 'the golden year' so I doubt it.


 2012 < 2014 = 2013 maybe it :Smile:

----------


## kanyon

If this is being released next week, why is there nothing on L'Oreal's website about it or any kind of promotion anywhere? When you do a google search, the first result that comes up is this forum.

----------


## new bubble

> If this is being released next week, why is there nothing on L'Oreal's website about it or any kind of promotion anywhere? When you do a google search, the first result that comes up is this forum.


 Or the b******* are using us to promote it  :Mad:

----------


## new bubble

> If this is being released next week, why is there nothing on L'Oreal's website about it or any kind of promotion anywhere? When you do a google search, the first result that comes up is this forum.


 No seriously there could be a few reasons why we're not hearing anything. They have put the dates back or even scrapped because it was s*** and doesn't work like they claim or there enhancing it. Who knows

----------


## new bubble

> Or the b******* are using us to promote it


 Something slightly off topic but I see now why daily mail seem to break l'oreals news first. Watching television yesterday l'oreal have just launched a new moisturiser for women and guess what the advertisment says, recommended by DAILY MAIL!!

More readers for daily mail and lower cost for l'oreal to advertise

----------


## gutted

> Something slightly off topic but I see now why daily mail seem to break l'oreals news first. Watching television yesterday l'oreal have just launched a new moisturiser for women and guess what the advertisment says, recommended by DAILY MAIL!!
> 
> More readers for daily mail and lower cost for l'oreal to advertise


 but it was the telegraph that advertised it.

if they were going to advertise it, it would be on thier website like the last product

http://www.vichy.com/EN-NT/htmlref/p.../ASPTACH1.html

i guess they havnt got round to updating it yet, who knows.

ive noticed one of the foriegn website that was going to stock it has removed the expected arrival date.

I also read somewhere that it will be released october -> http://translate.google.com/translat...=0CEMQ7gEwBjge

perhaps it just in that specific country, or they could have pushed it back.

----------


## new bubble

> but it was the telegraph that advertised it.
> 
> if they were going to advertise it, it would be on thier website like the last product
> 
> http://www.vichy.com/EN-NT/htmlref/p.../ASPTACH1.html
> 
> i guess they havnt got round to updating it yet, who knows.
> 
> ive noticed one of the foriegn website that was going to stock it has removed the expected arrival date.
> ...


 is the mail and telegraph part of the same news group, anyway october will be a huge month. Lots of variables expected that month. Big organizations pin point where there expected to gain maximum coverage for themselves

----------


## gutted

> is the mail and telegraph part of the same news group, anyway october will be a huge month. Lots of variables expected that month. Big organizations pin point where there expected to gain maximum coverage for themselves


 i dont if they are?

it could be next week in some countries im not sure, ive sent an email to one of the pharmacies.

----------


## new bubble

> i dont if they are?
> 
> it could be next week in some countries im not sure, ive sent an email to one of the pharmacies.


 They can have it in every country by next week it doesn't solve the issue concerning lack of news about it, proof of there so called clinical trials, pictures, are the participants still maintaining there hair and have they increased it and so on.
This brings me back to my original point the game has changed since they launched Ameixnil back then they didn't have much to lose regarding mens cosmetics, now if this neogenics is and proves to be just snake oil. Men will be pissed at them and it will affect there cosmetic range for the males. I for one will not buy there deoderants, moisturisers etc etc.
Can you see what they could potentially lose, not millions but 100's of millions if not a BILLION$. They have shareholders to answere too. They bloody well KNOW THIS

----------


## gutted

> They can have it in every country by next week it doesn't solve the issue concerning lack of news about it, proof of there so called clinical trials, pictures, are the participants still maintaining there hair and have they increased it and so on.
> This brings me back to my original point the game has changed since they launched Ameixnil back then they didn't have much to lose regarding mens cosmetics, now if this neogenics is and proves to be just snake oil. Men will be pissed at them and it will affect there cosmetic range for the males. I for one will not buy there deoderants, moisturisers etc etc.
> Can you see what they could potentially lose, not millions but 100's of millions if not a BILLION$. They have shareholders to answere too. They bloody well KNOW THIS


 loool i hear ya.

it will definitley be really damaging for them, i think we should stay optimistic, if anything usefull comes from this it would be the fact that it adds more pressure onto thier competition.

did they release the details of the clinical trial for aminexil back when they released that?

----------


## NotBelievingIt

Companies introduce product fails all the time.  Whether its because the product truly is crap or because it just didn't have the audience they thought it would.

Bottom line, they aren't going to lose any money but what they put into the products R&D and marketing.  People didn't stop drinking Coke or Pepsi when they introduced variants that were crap, did they?

----------


## new bubble

> loool i hear ya.
> 
> it will definitley be really damaging for them, i think we should stay optimistic, if anything usefull comes from this it would be the fact that it adds more pressure onto thier competition.
> 
> did they release the details of the clinical trial for aminexil back when they released that?


 From what I've read they had a similiar test with 100 or so men with Aminexil and they were satisfied with the results but never seen any pictures.

They done a similar test with 100 patients with neogenics so your guess is as good as mine. I think all of the companies feel pressure as they have all been ranting on about a solution for the past 4 years. Allergen have big news out in october and the others should have results and news around the same time. Lets see whose the first to break there silence

----------


## gutted

> From what I've read they had a similiar test with 100 or so men with Aminexil and they were satisfied with the results but never seen any pictures.
> 
> They done a similar test with 100 patients with neogenics so your guess is as good as mine. I think all of the companies feel pressure as they have all been ranting on about a solution for the past 4 years. Allergen have big news out in october and the others should have results and news around the same time. Lets see whose the first to break there silence


 guess we just have to try it out and see what it does...

----------


## 67mph

> guess we just have to try it out and see what it does...


 Umm, let us know how you get on with that then Gutted!

Ps. Do yourself a favour and don't get sucked in by marketing or lack there of.

----------


## 67mph

So, let me get this straight, from this thread all we have is a whole heap of chinese whisper?

Chinese whisper is a poor mans marketing right?

Sow the cheap seed, let people take their pickings (aslong as they're desperate enough to bite) then count the profits, then piss of and start all over again a few years down the line?

Nice.

It's classic people; big company sells unproven promise to the small guys, ie the paying consumer.

What's new??!

----------


## thechamp

Im sure we will have more info on it soon

----------


## new bubble

> So, let me get this straight, from this thread all we have is a whole heap of chinese whisper?
> 
> Chinese whisper is a poor mans marketing right?
> 
> Sow the cheap seed, let people take their pickings (aslong as they're desperate enough to bite) then count the profits, then piss of and start all over again a few years down the line?
> 
> Nice.
> 
> It's classic people; big company sells unproven promise to the small guys, ie the paying consumer.
> ...


 Agrre with most of what you've said apart from starting  over again a few years down the line. They won't have a chance as if any of those other real scientific methods proves to be the answer, well who needs l'oreal then

----------


## thechamp

Well if this is a scam why they saying you see results in such short periods of time like a month to 3 months, they would be better off saying a year etc!

----------


## new bubble

> Well if this is a scam why they saying you see results in such short periods of time like a month to 3 months, they would be better off saying a year etc!


 Good point!

----------


## gutted

it will be released next week.

----------


## gutted

> Umm, let us know how you get on with that then Gutted!
> 
> Ps. Do yourself a favour and don't get sucked in by marketing or lack there of.


 will do...as we all know, one thing that works for one person may not work for another, if it works for a statistical number of people it is considered effective.

i will only use it in the temples and frontal region so, it will probably last me quite a while.

----------


## niff1250

> it will be released next week.


 Where did you get the info and for what country ?

----------


## gutted

> Where did you get the info and for what country ?


 uk/eu

this site will stock it in the uk -> pharmacyathand

----------


## gutted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P98n...hannel&list=UL

----------


## ardana

well, there goes our hope of it being any good, since they put women in the commercial

----------


## thechamp

Bring on the real deal 2012 baby!!

----------


## NotBelievingIt

unless you know what the video is about you actually have no idea what the hell the product is.  I suppose thats why its a teaser.

----------


## new bubble

> uk/eu
> 
> this site will stock it in the uk -> pharmacyathand


 good luck to all who try it, we may need after watching that cheap ass commercial :Confused:

----------


## gutted

> good luck to all who try it, we may need after watching that cheap ass commercial


 stemoxydine is a prolyl hydroxylase inhibitor

the following study states administeration of a prolyl hydroxylase inhibitor caused bone marrow progenitor cells to be increased.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22880134

loreal must know something we dont about thier product. hopefully it has some sort of effect.

----------


## new bubble

> stemoxydine is a prolyl hydroxylase inhibitor
> 
> the following study states administeration of a prolyl hydroxylase inhibitor caused bone marrow progenitor cells to be increased.
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22880134
> 
> loreal must know something we dont about thier product. hopefully it has some sort of effect.


 what does this mean, please explain in simple laymans terms regarding hair loss/growth

----------


## new bubble

> stemoxydine is a prolyl hydroxylase inhibitor
> 
> the following study states administeration of a prolyl hydroxylase inhibitor caused bone marrow progenitor cells to be increased.
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22880134
> 
> loreal must know something we dont about thier product. hopefully it has some sort of effect.


 Gutted you seem to get a lot of info on this, we need the clinical studies in this if you can conducted by l'oreal

----------


## gutted

> Gutted you seem to get a lot of info on this, we need the clinical studies in this if you can conducted by l'oreal


 i asked about the study at the online pharmacy...will see what respond with.

as for contacting vichy directly, i havent tried that yet.

----------


## new bubble

> i asked about the study at the online pharmacy...will see what respond with.
> 
> as for contacting vichy directly, i havent tried that yet.


 why would they sell online and not mainstream in supermarkets or drug stores directly like they do with there other products.

I don't think they are confident with this product, and there using Vichy to do it even though l'oreal own it but how many people know this. What bugs me L'OREAL are not using there own name to promote it

----------


## gutted

the guy who conducted the trial

"Dr. Pascal Reygagne. Dr.. Pascal Reygagne is internationally renowned dermatologist, tricholoog (hair expert) and Sabouraud Director of the Health Center at St. Louis Hospital in Paris."

----------


## new bubble

> the guy who conducted the trial
> 
> "Dr. Pascal Reygagne. Dr.. Pascal Reygagne is internationally renowned dermatologist, tricholoog (hair expert) and Sabouraud Director of the Health Center at St. Louis Hospital in Paris."


 I have already read that, pictures is what we need and that study

----------


## gutted

> why would they sell online and not mainstream in supermarkets or drug stores directly like they do with there other products.
> 
> I don't think they are confident with this product, and there using Vichy to do it even though l'oreal own it but how many people know this. What bugs me L'OREAL are not using there own name to promote it


 i really dont know, vichy is specifically used to launch hair care products.

we can speculate on its efficacy all we want but we wont be any more wiser if its not actually tried out.

----------


## NotBelievingIt

> what does this mean, please explain in simple laymans terms regarding hair loss/growth


 A progenitor cell is basically a stem cell.  Bone Marrow is the ultimate source of non-embryionc stem cells.

----------


## gutted

in mpb, stem cells dont mature into prognetor cells, hence why people go bald. The study above indicates a propyl hydroxylase inhibitor causes an increase in prognetor cells.

----------


## new bubble

> in mpb, stem cells dont mature into prognetor cells, hence why people go bald. The study above indicates a propyl hydroxylase inhibitor causes an increase in prognetor cells.


 looks like mpbtreatments has already jumped in and produced a pgd2 inhibitor as a topical solution

----------


## new bubble

> looks like mpbtreatments has already jumped in and produced a pgd2 inhibitor as a topical solution


 Appologies for the above, mpb are in research faze next is the development of it

----------


## new bubble

> Appologies for the above, mpb are in research faze next is the development of it


 this is what I read;

http://www.mpbtreatments.com/#/shop/...lution/2188728

----------


## Zefrench

Hello guys! I'm french 

I often come on this forum to see news because on french forums they are all stupid and they just say everything is screwed, ****ed I dunno how to say, but many members don't have any hopes and just spam on the forum.

About the new product by l'Oreal, i saw that you had doubt (normal I think) because no news anywhere ... But I 'm french, my google is french, so I often try to see if websites talk about it and every french websites talked about it at least one time. Last in date was three days before : http://www.gentside.com/calvitie/une..._art43949.html

So I don't think it's shit, because if l'oreal says that there will be a gain of whatever percent of hair, if they garantee it, no doubt it's true. The thing is: will it be useful for people who are totally bald --> I don't think so.

About me, I'm young and some hairs begins thin even if we cannot really see it for the moment. But I just hope that a ****ing good product will come out before i'm bald, in the next ten years cuz i'm just 22 so it's just the beginning of Hell :P.

See you soon ! And sorry if my english is not always very good ! Just tryin to improve it  :Wink: 

A bientot

----------


## LPSboxing

> So I don't think it's shit, because if l'oreal says that there will be a gain of whatever percent of hair, if they garantee it, no doubt it's true.


 well....in theory this is right, but do you know what happened with their previous product, that aminexil shit?

It was supposed to work, but it simply didn't.

I have not tried it myself though, just reporting what I have been reading around.

----------


## Zefrench

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P98n0Drmudc


On french forum doctissimo, they are talkin about this publicité.
22 September in Tchek Republic, so in France, probably before ? I'll definitely test it.

Hope we'll be able to be proud of our french product if it's a success.  :Smile:  Solution will come from France, from Sabouraud ! :P

----------


## gutted

> Hello guys! I'm french 
> 
> I often come on this forum to see news because on french forums they are all stupid and they just say everything is screwed, ****ed I dunno how to say, but many members don't have any hopes and just spam on the forum.


 loool its these nw7'ers that really like to discredit new treatments very much as they know nothing but a HT would "fix" them.

anyway im hoping some nw7'ers would actually try this out, any growth would clearley be visible on nw5/67 scalp whereas on nw1/2/3/4 it would be pretty difficult to assess/misjudge.

----------


## thechamp

Give it a chance!!!!! I'm buying it who else is

----------


## Thinning@30

If neogenic is legitimate and not snake oil, I don't understand L'oreal's approach to marketing it.

If I had a new hair loss treatment that was better than the existing big three, I would be shouting about it from the rooftops and doing everything I could to get the word out.  The snake oil companies, on the other hand, always seem to want to fly under the radar.  They want to quietly sell their B.S. products and avoid scrutiny.  They know that a critical examination of their claims by media and consumer groups would reveal just how empty they are.

----------


## thechamp

If I had a new hair loss treatment that was better than the existing big three, I would be shouting about it from the rooftops and doing everything I could to get the word out. The snake oil companies, on the other hand, always seem to want to fly under the radar. They want to quietly sell their B.S. products and avoid scrutiny. They know that a critical examination of their claims by media and consumer groups would reveal just how empty they are. Your only saying this cause your balding

----------


## thechamp

http://translate.google.com/translat..._art43949.html I translated the French article

----------


## Knockin on NW4

> http://translate.google.com/translat..._art43949.html I translated the French article


 That article claims the 80 euro package will last three months. If that's the case, this "treatment" is relatively inexpensive.

----------


## doke

hi i see a polish site selling neogenic has sold out has anyone bought any yet?
i would have thought a french site would be first.

----------


## Kiwi

> If neogenic is legitimate and not snake oil, I don't understand L'oreal's approach to marketing it.
> 
> If I had a new hair loss treatment that was better than the existing big three, I would be shouting about it from the rooftops and doing everything I could to get the word out.  The snake oil companies, on the other hand, always seem to want to fly under the radar.  They want to quietly sell their B.S. products and avoid scrutiny.  They know that a critical examination of their claims by media and consumer groups would reveal just how empty they are.


 There are a few reasons actually. One that comes to mind is their ability to manufacture enough for the planet. That would cost them a lot.

Many companies will do a soft launch to see how consumers respond to the product and then they will tweak their marketing, fix any bugs etc and then do a global launch.

There are lots of businessy reasons why they do this.

I'll be trying this out for sure!!!

----------


## gutted

> hi i see a polish site selling neogenic has sold out has anyone bought any yet?
> i would have thought a french site would be first.


 doke pharmacyathand said they will be stocking it in the UK next week.

----------


## doke

many thanks gutted are you going to buy it or wait and see feedback.

----------


## Zefrench

thanks me, no ? I come to bring you information and you just don't care ? 

americans are all the same, think that you are superior but you don't know anything about life. Go to vote for you racist republican mitt romney and make the war to all the arab country, thats all you little dick can do!

okay i'm a french nice guy so i just give you a last link , the french forum that i talked about some members finally decided to give more details, some website already propose pre-sell.

http://forum.doctissimo.fr/sante/cal...4299_4.htm#bas

----------


## gutted

> thanks me, no ? I come to bring you information and you just don't care ? 
> 
> americans are all the same, think that you are superior but you don't know anything about life. Go to vote for you racist republican mitt romney and make the war to all the arab country, thats all you little dick can do!


 looool

10char

----------


## gutted

> many thanks gutted are you going to buy it or wait and see feedback.


 yes will be trying it out.

i dont really rely on forum feedback, they tend to be hugely biased. WHat works for you may not neccassarilly work for others.

having said that, the people who have thier hair loss under control are the ones that may see the results on this.

----------


## Zefrench

Vous comprenez rien à ce que je dis, j'espère en tout cas vous avoir aider même si on sent pas vraiment de reconnaissance. Mais nique sa mère au pire.

----------


## doke

yes thats true gutted are you in us or uk and have you heard what price it will be yet as i saw one site saying 80 eu

----------


## gutted

> yes thats true gutted are you in us or uk and have you heard what price it will be yet as i saw one site saying 80 eu


 uk, im not sure what the price will be.

----------


## Zefrench

80 EUROS POUR UN MOIS, petite bite! 

If you go on the link maybe you will se that the price is WRITED over there!

----------


## jman91

This is so sad. I thought that people in this forum were better than to buy into cosmetic crap.

This L'oreal bullshit is just as likely to work as their anti ageing, anti cellulite, extra hair shine 'formulas' etc that you see the young attrctive, heavily made up women selling on tv. Its a real shame that these very, in my opinion, unscrupulous companies are making money from exploiting womens insecurities in such an obvious fashion...why does it work so well...because people would rather believe what they see on tv than to say, "hold on, where's the hard data to back this up?"

So why are WE now falling for the same crap!!!??!?!? it's bad enough that we have to duck and dodge the stuff being sold by amoral snake oil salesmen and HT butchers that are alowed to operate in the industry but there is no need to let big cosmetic companies trick you with a cosmetic....the science is just not there guys. Don't get me wrong I believe we are likely to cure hairloss with cellular based treatments in the not too distant future but theres not a chance in hell that this will have a cosmetic solution, so dont waste your money.

----------


## gutted

> This is so sad. I thought that people in this forum were better than to buy into cosmetic crap.
> 
> This L'oreal bullshit is just as likely to work as their anti ageing, anti cellulite, extra hair shine 'formulas' etc that you see the young attrctive, heavily made up women selling on tv. Its a real shame that these very, in my opinion, unscrupulous companies are making money from exploiting womens insecurities in such an obvious fashion...why does it work so well...because people would rather believe what they see on tv than to say, "hold on, where's the hard data to back this up?"
> 
> Why are WE now falling for the same crap!!!??!?!? it's bad enough that we have to duck and dodge the stuff being sold by amoral snake oil salesmen and HT butchers that are alowed to operate in the industry but there is no need to let big cosmetic companies trick you with a cosmetic....we are likely to cure this stuff with cellular based treatments but theres not a chance in hell that this will have a cosmetic solution, so dont waste your money.


 well SOMEONE at least has to try it out to discredit it as snake oil.

You should be thankful someone is willing to take one for the team and report back. Im sure you would be the first one to jump on it if it works.

----------


## jman91

> well SOMEONE at least has to try it out to discredit it as snake oil.
> 
> You should be thankful someone is willing to take one for the team and report back. Im sure you would be the first one to jump on it if it works.


 
Don't detract from the fact you are buying into the idea it will work.

Otherwise why not go around and test out the other thousands of shitty snake oil products to confirm that they are in fact, shitty snake oil products.

----------


## new bubble

> well SOMEONE at least has to try it out to discredit it as snake oil.
> 
> You should be thankful someone is willing to take one for the team and report back. Im sure you would be the first one to jump on it if it works.


 Also i'm sure l'oreal has a team of web surfers looking around in forums like this watching out for comments, its  50/50 at the moment.

----------


## new bubble

> Don't detract from the fact you are buying into the idea it will work.
> 
> Otherwise why not go around and test out the other thousands of shitty snake oil products to confirm that they are in fact, shitty snake oil products.


 JMAN, what if it works

----------


## jman91

> JMAN, what if it works


 BHAHAHA! 


you are the little girl 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPJQw-x-xho

----------


## new bubble

> BHAHAHA! 
> 
> 
> you are the little girl 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPJQw-x-xho


 and your BITCH,my bitch

----------


## jman91

if it cures hairloss, I will upload a video of myself crying whilst taking a dump into my own mouth and upload it to TBT.

----------


## gutted

> Don't detract from the fact you are buying into the idea it will work.
> 
> Otherwise why not go around and test out the other thousands of shitty snake oil products to confirm that they are in fact, shitty snake oil products.


 
like someone pointed out earlier loreal cant bullshit there customers this easily, It has "decent" science behind it too. 
Dont knock it just because of the fact its not "FDA" approved - in the EU its not all about the FDA.
it may have some effect, how much? thats why were using it to find out. 

it may "work" for some and it may not "work" for others but one things for sure ->

frustration doesnt "work" for your mpb either.

----------


## doke

What about this product based on a trial in norway check it out it seems a bit pricey but if it works im not sure anyway i found it by accident heres the link www.harvoksereviewed.co.uk

----------


## doke

By the way the trial was on a product called hairgain :EEK!:

----------


## gutted

wouldnt bother with it doke...

----------


## doke

It seems its like nourkrin or viviscal which we know does not work as i tried that years ago,and i notice the trial was back in 2001.

----------


## thechamp

So loreal a billion dollar company is going to troll these forums what a joke hair loss is comming to a end 2012 is here!

----------


## Kiwi

> So loreal a billion dollar company is going to troll these forums what a joke hair loss is comming to a end 2012 is here!


 Sorry what do you mean? You really think the end of this punishment is near?

----------


## Dazza

> So loreal a billion dollar company is going to troll these forums what a joke hair loss is comming to a end 2012 is here!


 They have done it before, many many times before. 

And also no, hairloss is not coming to an end with loreal.

----------


## thechamp

Snake oil treatments are fading the more effective treatments are comming the more money and I say treatments not cures!!!

----------


## aim4hair

When can we buy this ?

Im planning to apply it in the morning and minoxidle at night.
I have big hope for this, i don't think it will be the cure, but i beleive it could be an affective treatment.

----------


## thechamp

Im using spectral dnc morning and night 4.5 percent it's very effective for me no propecia just spectral no shedding hair looks great atm

----------


## john2399

Anyone know the price it will cost here in the states?

----------


## rdawg

> Anyone know the price it will cost here in the states?


 probably close to 100$ for a month's supply.

this stuff is expensive. Not interersted in buying it myself until i see proven results(which I dont expect at all.).

----------


## Erick

We know that the is real science behind Neogenic( or whatever it will be called ). There is absolutely no reason why you guys should be saying that there will be no results, it is plain and simply foolish. Don't forget that they are using the same techniques used to treat those famous rats that became famous over night, that in itself should say something.

----------


## kanyon

I simply don't think a product with such little fanfare could work.

----------


## kaandereli

http://www.baumanblog.com/folliclebl...follicles.html 

as i see from the article , neogenic seems to be a good "medium term" solution before aderans, hisogen, replicel find a complete cure.they produced a molecule that mimics a missing molecule in balding head.the new molecule can wake up miniaturized or dormant hair.

but it is not certain whether it will produce new hair follicles.

----------


## doke

Neogenic might or mightnot work it all depends on the person and degree of hair loss and remember champ that spectral bought out nanoxidil and f7 and i have not heard that is working so another snake oil there.
Im not saying L oreal or vichy dercos is scott free as they had aminexil which was or is supposed to be like minoxidil but that did not work for me either.
Its like the helsinki formula all over again even that still has its followers as in polysorbate 60 and 80, which may still be helpfull as it does clear sebum from scalp. :EEK!:

----------


## Dazza

> but it is not certain whether it will produce new hair follicles.


 it won't, it even says in the links it won't. All they claim is awakening hair.

----------


## doke

check this out i got a lot of this stuff quite cheap and just started using www.hairlosscures.co.uk/

----------


## Jcm800

Link isnt working doke?

----------


## doke

sorry jc i forgot the www.

----------


## doke

it does say it turns miniture hairs into growing hair and i got mine from ebay although i see amazon got some as well it did not cost the earth so i thought why not try it.

----------


## Jcm800

Fair enough mate but I thought you're trialling some other stuff,  and didn't want to add other potions?

----------


## doke

i was using the ru mixed in minox but it messed me hair up and scalp become very flaky itchy,i am getting fed up now but as i had this exagon already i thought i would use it and it does not affect the scalp like minox,or it may have been the ru as i do not have problems with my scalp.

----------


## doke

I thought it strange that the sinere topical flutamide also made my scalp itch and we know they stopped selling it.

----------


## Jcm800

Fair enough doke-see how you get on with that other product then, good luck and report back if you sprout anything  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## doke

hi jc are you still taking trx2

----------


## Jcm800

Yeah still funding Whitfield, he must have a few quid in the bank now

----------


## doke

any improvement in you hair on trx.

----------


## gutted

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/gene...ttern_baldness

----------


## Artista

Good link ,thanks Gutt'ster 

We've got good times ahead for us

----------


## gutted

> Good link ,thanks Gutt'ster 
> 
> We've got good times ahead for us


 it just shows that the scientist involved with loreals neogenic commented on the pgd2 development and is aware of it.

lets hope neogenic actually pans out!

----------


## new bubble

> it just shows that the scientist involved with loreals neogenic commented on the pgd2 development and is aware of it.
> 
> lets hope neogenic actually pans out!


 They would as they funded the research in the first place, by the end of this year we will know whether a cure is close or still decade/s away.

Histogen/Allergan/Aderans have all got announcements due september/october.
L'oreal will make more products as they already suggested for a hollistic approach for hair loss with I believe good results in the end certainly for thinning heads for more advanced NW's the bio techs will be the ones who will be able to grow substanial hair to cover.
Once the infrastucture is there which it is now the cure is next. Lets see if Merck deside to develop the topical Finasteride which they hold the patent for now they know about pgd and all

----------


## gutted

> They would as they funded the research in the first place, by the end of this year we will know whether a cure is close or still decade/s away.
> 
> Histogen/Allergan/Aderans have all got announcements due september/october.
> L'oreal will make more products as they already suggested for a hollistic approach for hair loss with I believe good results in the end certainly for thinning heads for more advanced NW's the bio techs will be the ones who will be able to grow substanial hair to cover.
> Once the infrastucture is there which it is now the cure is next. Lets see if Merck deside to develop the topical Finasteride which they hold the patent for now they know about pgd and all


 new bubble, are you going to be trying neogenic out?

----------


## new bubble

> new bubble, are you going to be trying neogenic out?


 yes most defintely, I've recently started to shed lots of hair bought on by changing my diet to  a very low carb diet and drinking coffee with sweetners.

My head started to itch and my hair and scalp became very oily . Even though I;ve stopped the diet after a couple months i can't stop the shedding.
Any ideas

----------


## niff1250

any news about release date ? 22th september correct ?
It strange there's no advertising, just nothing.

----------


## gutted

> yes most defintely, I've recently started to shed lots of hair bought on by changing my diet to  a very low carb diet and drinking coffee with sweetners.
> 
> My head started to itch and my hair and scalp became very oily . Even though I;ve stopped the diet after a couple months i can't stop the shedding.
> Any ideas


 excess oil/itch signals excess dht activity.

what shampoo do you use?

----------


## new bubble

> excess oil/itch signals excess dht activity.
> 
> what shampoo do you use?


 ALPECIN, what would you recommend

----------


## gutted

> ALPECIN, what would you recommend


 pm me. ill provide you with a link.

10char

----------


## new bubble

> pm me. ill provide you with a link.
> 
> 10char


 Can't seem to pm you

----------


## doke

Is this an alternative to the drugs and even ru looks interesting http://folexen.com

----------


## new bubble

> Is this an alternative to the drugs and even ru looks interesting http://folexen.com


 Isn't that equol

----------


## Aston

> yes most defintely, I've recently started to shed lots of hair bought on by changing my diet to  a very low carb diet and drinking coffee with sweetners.
> 
> My head started to itch and my hair and scalp became very oily . Even though I;ve stopped the diet after a couple months i can't stop the shedding.
> Any ideas


 The slowed metabolism caused by low carbing should be easy to offset in about 2-3 weeks by consuming 150g of carbs daily while keeping your nutrients high (otherwise it gets worse). Various fruits, cruciferous vegetables plus daily eggs and weekly liver is what i recommend. Jams, ice cream and multivitamins worked for me as well, though. I'm not sure if bad nutrient deficiencies can be corrected quickly enough, though. It depends on how much you paid attention to that while low carbing.
That said, the shedding could be temporary if your scalp isn't particularly oily anymore.

----------


## sausage

All us baldies get mugged off by these types of thing....

like that Alpecin Caffiene shampoo, comes across as some kind of hairloss cure, they sold millions of bottles of that crap.

Making a mint.

That's what we need to do. Make something that claims it cures baldness and make a few million each.

----------


## youngin

> The slowed metabolism caused by low carbing should be easy to offset in about 2-3 weeks by consuming 150g of carbs daily while keeping your nutrients high (otherwise it gets worse). Various fruits, cruciferous vegetables plus daily eggs and weekly liver is what i recommend. Jams, ice cream and multivitamins worked for me as well, though. I'm not sure if bad nutrient deficiencies can be corrected quickly enough, though. It depends on how much you paid attention to that while low carbing.
> That said, the shedding could be temporary if your scalp isn't particularly oily anymore.


 Metabolism isn't slowed by a low carb diet. Caloric intake is what regulates metabolism. IGF and DHT cause sebaceous glands to be overactive. Lower your calorie intake and consumption of dairy products, and sugar if your scalp is very oily.

----------


## youngin

See study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10465280 for more information on sebum production and gland growth.

----------


## UK_

> All us baldies get mugged off by these types of thing....
> 
> like that Alpecin Caffiene shampoo, comes across as some kind of hairloss cure, they sold millions of bottles of that crap.
> 
> Making a mint.
> 
> That's what we need to do. Make something that claims it cures baldness and make a few million each.


 Now although you're completely right about its efficacy.

I must say a bottle of that does last far far longer than the regular stuff I used to use.

----------


## Erick

So today is the day that the product supposedly comes out according to Joe from staten island. This product is very expensive it better do something, Joe has been doing lots of marketing for them for free, which is it's own point. Let's see who can find the first online store. The race is on

----------


## Tiger norwood's

> So today is the day that the product supposedly comes out according to Joe from staten island. This product is very expensive it better do something, Joe has been doing lots of marketing for them for free, which is it's own point. Let's see who can find the first online store. The race is on


 I can't find any stores on the internet.

----------


## Aston

> See study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10465280 for more information on sebum production and gland growth.


 Just because there is one piece of research hinting to a correlation doesn't mean it's automatically right. 
Switching to a different macronutrient as your main source of calories is bound to instantly decrease CO2 production while the enzymes and gut flora adapting over months. Even when fully adapted, resting metabolic rate is measured realiably in CO2 production, which will always be inferior on a low carb regime. A perfectly adapted fat burner will have a slower metabolism than any carb burner.

----------


## 67mph

I'm kinda glad this thread, quite clearly, is dying a slow death.

----------


## thechamp

This product is not even out yet **** give it a chance!!

----------


## 67mph

Product? ...what product?

Type Neogenic into google!

----------


## doke

that guy irish at hairlosshelp he has been on ru with minox foam, although he melts his into a liquid and applies 4mls in the morning and the ru at night he also used finasteride as well over i think nearly two years had fantastic regrowth but every few months had a massive shed which he shows all the pics and he tries dropping finas to see if its that causing the shed or the minox,he finally goes onto ru and minox alone which i think has kept the regrowth although i have asked him for an update.
It seems like hes getting like animals do a shed every now and then only for a great full head of hair again im not sure if i could put up with that.

----------


## thechamp

Where is it for sale??

----------


## Tiger norwood's

> Where is it for sale??


 you can't buy it yet.

----------


## gutted

pharmacyathand (uk based) stated thier stock would arrive this coming week. I dont know if they ship internationally.

this one also stated they would get the product this coming week too - http://www.huid-producten.nl/
i think they stated they would ship to the uk, dont know about other countries. Contact them and find out.

----------


## Erick

> pharmacyathand (uk based) stated thier stock would arrive this coming week. I dont know if they ship internationally.
> 
> this one also stated they would get the product this coming week too - http://www.huid-producten.nl/
> i think they stated they would ship to the uk, dont know about other countries. Contact them and find out.


 Did you ask them what the name of the product is called? On a completely different note, has anyone actually tried snake oil?

----------


## Erick

> Did you ask them what the name of the product is called? On a completely different note, has anyone actually tried snake oil?


 We can't let this thread die, never

----------


## gutted

> Did you ask them what the name of the product is called?


 what do you mean? its called "neogenic" by vichy?

----------


## thechamp

It has not been realeased yet!!

----------


## thechamp

When is this going to be realeased?

----------


## gutted

> When is this going to be realeased?


 some time this week champ.

you may need to ask around to see if any of the retailers will ship to your country though.

----------


## gutted

apparently there is a small delay...

----------


## thechamp

Gutted you buying it too?

----------


## gutted

> Gutted you buying it too?


 yeah.

10char

----------


## Artista

Ive thought to buy the product right a way  too,,but maybe it would be better to await the initial consumer findings here at TBT . That would be a simple matter of 3-4 months or so.  
Joe from Staten would be the man to listen to being that he is very frank about the latest issues .

----------


## jman91

Why do you guys think this stuff will work??!!?!? there's no real science or hard data??! it's a cosmetic!  i've said this before and i'll say it again, if this stuff works better than minox or Fin i'll film myself taking a dump into my mouth, whilst crying and upload it to the site.

----------


## Batman

Hey guys for anyone who's interested in this product I'm also purchasing Neogenic as well.  Even though it's not proven to work I'm willing to give it a try for a few months.  I am a thinning NW3 and I will gladly post updates and let you guys know how well it's doing or if it's working at all. I suspect this will only thicken up your hair wich can benefit a lot of people but hopefully it does more.

----------


## Artista

I cant speak for any one else here jman but ill say this..I never stated that this product will work.  Yes it is being released as  a 'cosmetic'.  
As I have said, Ill await the consumer findings before purchasing it myself nor would i get into criticizing the product  until real data is available.  
People assume that it will work to some degree and people assume that it wont work at all.  
Why make this so emotional?  That is why so  many members are getting turned off from commenting on here on TBT's forum.


Batman,,now your comment is a great example of a positive attitude..good luck.

----------


## gutted

> Why do you guys think this stuff will work??!!?!? there's no real science or hard data??! it's a cosmetic!  i've said this before and i'll say it again, if this stuff works better than minox or Fin i'll film myself taking a dump into my mouth, whilst crying and upload it to the site.


 the question is why do you care...

people can make thier own minds up.

----------


## Batman

> People assume that it will work to some degree and people assume that it wont work at all.  
> Why make this so emotional?  That is why so  many members are getting turned off from commenting on here on TBT's forum.


 I second that Artista, we are all dealing with the same problem if not we wouldnt be here.  We should all just try to help each other out and not criticize each other about who's right and who is wrong at this point no one knows the efficacy of this product.  So there's no point in saying that it wont work if the fact is no one really knows but also vise versa no one really knows if it works so either way we just gotta wait and see.




> Batman,,now your comment is a great example of a positive attitude..good luck.


 thank you.

----------


## NeedHairASAP

> Why do you guys think this stuff will work??!!?!? there's no real science or hard data??! it's a cosmetic!  i've said this before and i'll say it again, if this stuff works better than minox or Fin i'll film myself taking a dump into my mouth, whilst crying and upload it to the site.


 please don't do this...

----------


## NeedHairASAP

has anyone found any studies at all that at least corroborate the assumptions made in Neogenic's success?

any studies besides loreal's?


anything relating to hypoxia (or whatever) and hair or scalp or anything??

----------


## gutted

> has anyone found any studies at all that at least corroborate the assumptions made in Neogenic's success?
> 
> any studies besides loreal's?
> 
> 
> anything relating to hypoxia (or whatever) and hair or scalp or anything??


 theres some research suggesting propyl hydroxylase inhibitors activate progenitor cells. posted a couple of pages back.

----------


## new bubble

> has anyone found any studies at all that at least corroborate the assumptions made in Neogenic's success?
> 
> any studies besides loreal's?
> 
> 
> anything relating to hypoxia (or whatever) and hair or scalp or anything??


 There's a guy on another forum who had surgery nearly 30 years ago that did something  with hypoxia, this study of l'oreal is not new.
Anyway according to the guy its a messy op but long story short, end result  he is still has his hair today. I'll try and find the link

----------


## new bubble

> There's a guy on another forum who had surgery nearly 30 years ago that did something  with hypoxia, this study of l'oreal is not new.
> Anyway according to the guy its a messy op but long story short, end result  he is still has his hair today. I'll try and find the link


 here it is.

http://www.*************/hair-loss/bo...casc-DESC.html

----------


## 2020

hypoxia is not the main cause of MPB... loreal are trolls

they wasted so much time all the while holding the patent for 5-lox/cox-2 inhibitor reversing MPB....
http://www.hairloss-research.org/Update5-LOX10-08.html

They should have made a treatment based on that.

Benoxaprofen is a 5-lox inhibitor and it is able to completely reverse baldness...

it won't work. These are the same people that came up with this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopexil

----------


## gutted

> they wasted so much time all the while holding the patent for 5-lox/cox-2 inhibitor reversing MPB....
> http://www.hairloss-research.org/Update5-LOX10-08.html


 which makes me think they know more about mpb than replicel,aderans, merck etc put together...

whether neogenic works or not is anyones guess.

----------


## new bubble

> hypoxia is not the main cause of mpb... Loreal are trolls
> 
> they wasted so much time all the while holding the patent for 5-lox/cox-2 inhibitor reversing mpb....
> http://www.hairloss-research.org/update5-lox10-08.html
> 
> they should have made a treatment based on that.
> 
> Benoxaprofen is a 5-lox inhibitor and it is able to completely reverse baldness...
> 
> ...


 l'oreal, are scum

----------


## thechamp

So you guys are telling me that they will make more money from scamming people then there shampoos lol!!

----------


## Kirby_

> hypoxia is not the main cause of MPB... loreal are trolls
> 
> they wasted so much time all the while holding the patent for 5-lox/cox-2 inhibitor reversing MPB....
> http://www.hairloss-research.org/Update5-LOX10-08.html


 Hearing that, I almost start believing all those conspiracy theories that Big Pharma want to keep a genuine cure buried.  :Frown:

----------


## Erick

I remember a technique That taught at my business class which is almost always used. You release a product that has little efficacy, and then you make them buy other products to complement it like  2 more. This is what I think will happen, unfortunately it's just better business, there is no doubt those assholes are going to do that. Long story short, it will have little efficacy.

----------


## thechamp

If this product works what you guys going to say this could suparse rogaine!!

----------


## Jcm800

Champ ffs please stop putting part of your post in the title? 

And yeah,  I fkn hope this stuff works better than Minoxidil!

----------


## Kirby_

I can't see how anyone could make treatments as crap as fin and minox, to be honest. It's like if we were all stuck with TRS-80s when we should have modern PCs/Macs.

----------


## gutted

> I can't see how anyone could make treatments as crap as fin and minox, to be honest. It's like if we were all stuck with TRS-80s when we should have modern PCs/Macs.


 lool tell me about it, these companies know how much a viable option is worth...it just surprises me that the only options available are fin and minox!

----------


## thechamp

So have u emailed loreal gutted o

----------


## Erick

Sep 2nd has passed and no news yet, this can only mean one thing. Joe from staten island is working for L'oreal, and is making a killing marketing their brand.

----------


## 67mph

NEWS FLASH; shock horror, as latest aid in fighting hairloss has been and gone with only a thread to hint at the nonfact, it never surfaced in the first place...! 

...and now for the weather, rain rain rain, but if you stand at a right angle in a 10mph wind, you could gain back as much as .43% hair density, members from a hairloss forum are said to be beside themselves with joy and are willing to pay to stand in rainy wind tunnel on this unproven bullshit, see you same time tomorrow, thank you and good night...

I'm only kiddin' guys, only kiddin'!!

----------


## 67mph

Bored with this, bored with hairloss!

----------


## eqvist

I&#180;m pretty bored me two! I hate that I started following all this forums....... Over 10 years and NOTHING, fkn NOTHING that could help us. Not even ticking your hair. The labs most have really stupid people working there or they have found something that works but they couldn't make money of it.

Let&#180;s all face it, we will be bald and without self esteem! Thank god 4 internetporn!

----------


## thechamp

Man join puahate.com I'd you got problems picking up women or go to the brothel or Thailand!!

----------


## doke

talking about neogenic what abour spectrals nanoxidil and there f7 astressin b seems to have gone by the wayside is anyone here using it.
Is neogenic another hype product that does nothing like there aminexil.

----------


## gutted

> So have u emailed loreal gutted o


 pharmacyathand stated they contacted vichy and they stated that there was a small delay, and would get back to me as soon as they know more.

in the teaser videos the launch date for czeck republic states its 22nd september im guessing france and the uk would get it a slightley earlier, we will probably know more by end of the week.

----------


## thechamp

F7 dropped it trx2 dropped it lol so maybe with a little luck this might work

----------


## gutted

> F7 dropped it trx2 dropped it lol so maybe with a little luck this might work


 champ your going to drop neogenic too...lool

----------


## Dazza

It baffles me how may members think this will work, there is a reason they are releasing it under the Vichy brand. From all he reports I have read about this I can't see this doing anything. 

Our best bet is to hope Dr. C was not trolling us with the "I'm currently working with company's involving PGD2" 

That or histrogen throws a curve ball and has great results.

----------


## new bubble

> It baffles me how may members think this will work, there is a reason they are releasing it under the Vichy brand. From all he reports I have read about this I can't see this doing anything. 
> 
> Our best bet is to hope Dr. C was not trolling us with the "I'm currently working with company's involving PGD2" 
> 
> That or histrogen throws a curve ball and has great results.


 histogen has some news out tomorrow, saw it on another thread in tbt.

l'oreal will bring a few products out in the future like they already said so you can see there trying to maximise sales over the next couple of years

----------


## Jcm800

> champ your going to drop neogenic too...lool


 
Haha soo true..

----------


## MrBlonde

This is supposed to add density right?  Does it thicken thinning hair also or evenbetter sto hair thinning?

----------


## 30plus

> This is supposed to add density right?  Does it thicken thinning hair also or evenbetter sto hair thinning?


 Mr Blonde - the only effect it will likely have is severe loss to the thickness of your wallet. 

Am I going to try it myself though? Yes I am a sucker (and/or just deperate..) so probably...

----------


## gutted

it will be released "sometime this month" - http://www.huid-producten.nl/

its probably being released on the 22nd/sept as per the teaser video on youtube.

----------


## clandestine

Staight bollocks, this product. Hair loss sufferers falling prey to supposed treatments which produce no tangible results. Sigh.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> histogen has some news out tomorrow, saw it on another thread in tbt.


 can you give me the link

----------


## new bubble

> can you give me the link


 GO oon to the histogen website and click on events, there speaking today

----------


## new bubble

> can you give me the link


 here you go

http://www.histogen.com/aboutus/news.htm#event1

----------


## Artista

I look forward to Histogen's/Dr. Gail Naughton's updates at this weeks conference.

----------


## Erick

> here you go
> 
> http://www.histogen.com/aboutus/news.htm#event1


 You have to pay to watch that shit, un ****ing believable. Anyways, if anyone gets a copy of it make sure to upload it to youtube or vimeo.

----------


## new bubble

> I look forward to Histogen's/Dr. Gail Naughton's updates at this weeks conference.


 more info

http://www.histogen.com/aboutus/news_events.htm

----------


## 67mph

It's quite easy to do fellas, go to the search button and type in 'Histogen'!

This is the L'Oreal Neogenics Bullshit thread people, stop merging threads!!?

----------


## dex89

lmao, I though they were talking about the same product.

----------


## thechamp

People who want to give loreal a chance stay on this if you don't get lost even spencer was talking about this product!!

----------


## 67mph

> People who want to give loreal a chance stay on this if you don't get lost even spencer was talking about this product!!


 It's not as black and white as that.

Regarding Spencer (impo, the MAN!), there's talking about it, then there's 'talking about it'!

----------


## gutted

http://www.loreal.com/_en/_ww/home/a.../press-kit.pdf

----------


## UK_

Their research and explanations are still full of "may do this" "may do that"... "could do this"..."potentially do that".

This is all a bag of shit, L'oreal are going to make a killing off this one - fair play to them... they do put a lot of money into marketing... perhaps if they spent as much on actual research we could purchase products that were proven to work.

Back to Histogen who have secured US patent - do I hear the naysayers?  *crickets*.

----------


## gutted

intresting thing is they tested this on nw1-4 only.
And it is those people that respond to treatments MUCH better than nw6/7, since nw6/7 have more going on in thier scalps.

They obviously seem to know what they are doing with this...i will try it out, not hoping much, BUT, if it works ill be more than delighted.

----------


## Jcm800

I'll most likely try this stuff myself shortly after its released . It may well be snake oil. Won't know until a few intrepid desperados have taken one for team baldy, so sit back non believers and await our reports in due course. .

----------


## new bubble

> intresting thing is they tested this on nw1-4 only.
> And it is those people that respond to treatments MUCH better than nw6/7, since nw6/7 have more going on in thier scalps.
> 
> They obviously seem to know what they are doing with this...i will try it out, not hoping much, BUT, if it works ill be more than delighted.


 this is the beginning, people are saying the race is on between all these companies to find the best cure/treatment.
one of these companies is gonna up the whole game by the end of october.
L'oreal know this, they will bring more products that really work once these bio techs announce results, until then they will make good money from neogenics.

Its all a business strategy

----------


## gutted

> one of these companies is gonna up the whole game by the end of october.


 i get the same feeling too!

lets hope neogenic provides us with SOME decent reults until then.

----------


## Smiley

> I'll most likely try this stuff myself shortly after its released . It may well be snake oil. Won't know until a few intrepid desperados have taken one for team baldy, so sit back non believers and await our reports in due course. .


 Will do!  :Big Grin:

----------


## UK_

> intresting thing is they tested this on nw1-4 only.
> And it is those people that respond to treatments MUCH better than nw6/7, since nw6/7 have more going on in thier scalps.
> 
> They obviously seem to know what they are doing with this...i will try it out, not hoping much, BUT, if it works ill be more than delighted.


 Theres no way in hell this garbage can perform the miracle of growing hair on a slick bald scalp.

----------


## gutted

> Theres no way in hell this garbage can perform the miracle of growing hair on a slick bald scalp.


 nope nothing can,which is why nw6/7ers should not even bother with this one....

----------


## Erick

> nope nothing can,which is why nw6/7ers should not even bother with this one....


 Well Joe is a NW6(at least that's what he says) and he said he was going to give it a try, but then again he is getting paid to do so. 

Most likely this will increase 20% of hair re-growth. Even when this stuff does grow hair we are going to continue to have to use fin so it won't fall off. Let's all keep our fingers crossed.

----------


## thechamp

Spectral dnc and loreal will be enough for me :Smile:

----------


## Erick

> Spectral dnc and loreal will be enough for me


 Spectral DNC is a scam bro don't fall for it.

----------


## Jcm800

> Spectral dnc and loreal will be enough for me


 I thought you said Spectral Dnc was crap before?

----------


## thechamp

Firstly spectral dnc in 2007 was a epic product, until
I think it was 2009 or something the realeased A faulty batch it went to shit, now I'm Back on it it's 4.5 percent minoxild things seem to be sweet 6 months or so in!

----------


## Dazza

> Most likely this will increase 20% of hair re-growth. Even when this stuff does grow hair we are going to continue to have to use fin so it won't fall off.


 What source of information are you pulling this 20% number from?

----------


## gutted

> Well Joe is a NW6(at least that's what he says) and he said he was going to give it a try, but then again he is getting paid to do so. 
> 
> Most likely this will increase 20% of hair re-growth. Even when this stuff does grow hair we are going to continue to have to use fin so it won't fall off. Let's all keep our fingers crossed.


 well if your follicles arent scarred, which is what happens in late norwoods then there may even be chance this could grow SOME hair but nothing miraculous, hence which is why i said not to bother with it...but it depends on the individual.

----------


## Conpecia

I'm also interested in where that 20% figure came from. Just looking for a bridge between now and all the upcoming treatments. If I can get 20% more hair and maintain that for 3 years all will be well.

----------


## Erick

> I'm also interested in where that 20% figure came from. Just looking for a bridge between now and all the upcoming treatments. If I can get 20% more hair and maintain that for 3 years all will be well.


 Well all the evidence shows numbers from 15% - 30%, granted there was a few who only grew like 3% most likely norwood 4s. That beign said, it just makes mathematical sense to say 20% is about right.

----------


## Dazza

> Well all the evidence shows numbers from 15% - 30%, granted there was a few who only grew like 3% most likely norwood 4s. That beign said, it just makes mathematical sense to say 20% is about right.


 So you pulled that 20% number from out of your arse then.

Be it logical or not. If your gonna state numbers please back them up with a source.

----------


## Erick

> So you pulled that 20% number from out of your arse then.
> 
> Be it logical or not. If your gonna state numbers please back them up with a source.


 Well Joe from Staten Island also said 20%.

----------


## Dazza

> Well Joe from Staten Island also said 20%.


 I always thought joe's source was this websites threads?

Like he reports what's been going on here, he reads the breaking news here then reports once a week to spencer on the show?

Tho I have no idea on that, so only a guess on my part.

Joe does a great job getting the info from here to the listeners.

----------


## Erick

> I always thought joe's source was this websites threads?
> 
> Like he reports what's been going on here, he reads the breaking news here then reports once a week to spencer on the show?
> 
> Tho I have no idea on that, so only a guess on my part.
> 
> Joe does a great job getting the info from here to the listeners.


 Yes about 98&#37; of Joe's information comes from forums like these. Let's be honest breaking news typically hits the forums first, this is why we all check often to see if there is any updates. 

As far as the 20%, well I recall him saying that he applied integral calculus to calculate the area of a typical curve of a head. He then diferentiated the shape and found the min and max of the function of the head by finding the second derivative and setting equal to 0. This is how he got 15%min-30%max,  then he got the average of the two and adjusted for coveriance and inflation and thus we get 20%.

----------


## doke

So if stemoxydine is the treatment to regrow hair is it for all forms of alopecia and also what happened to L Oreal aminexil should they have combined the two?and not much mention of dht in there studies.
Im not convinced by there logic captain so lets go at warp speed to hair regrowth hahaha. :Confused:  :Confused:  :Confused:

----------


## Knockin on NW4

Here is the commercial for Neogenic. I could have done a better job with a GoPro and a smartphone..... http://youtu.be/P98n0Drmudc

----------


## Erick

> Here is the commercial for Neogenic. I could have done a better job with a GoPro and a smartphone..... http://youtu.be/P98n0Drmudc


 Yes a pretty shitty commercial, I guess is ok for a YouTube video. At least we know the name and all, under Vichy. How much do you guys think that clip was worth to loreal. Is there any news that they will be shipping to USA ?

----------


## Erick

I am losing my sanity, I don't know what's real anymore.

----------


## niff1250

it's available :
http://www.ipump.it/en/vichy/hair-ca...e.html?lang=en

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> it's available :
> http://www.ipump.it/en/vichy/hair-ca...e.html?lang=en


 Why is it called vichis and not loreal

----------


## 67mph

Bullshit stinks whatever you call it and in whatever language!

----------


## Knockin on NW4

> it's available :
> http://www.ipump.it/en/vichy/hair-ca...e.html?lang=en


 They will not ship to the U.S.

----------


## new bubble

> They will not ship to the U.S.


 Guys just wait for there launch on 22 september

----------


## Kirby_

> http://www.loreal.com/_en/_ww/home/a.../press-kit.pdf


 Just checked this, and there is literally no reference to or mention of male pattern baldness in the press kit.

----------


## Knockin on NW4

> Just checked this, and there is literally no reference to or mention of male pattern baldness in the press kit.


 This doesn't surprise me. They want men and women to purchase it, saying it is for mpb would deter women from trying it.

----------


## Erick

Don't purchase it from that site guys it's a freaking scam. Did some research and it looks like it's not a reliable source. Google pagerank of 1 which suggest it's new and will do anything to bring more people. only like 30 backlinks, any good ecommerce site has 1000's. The Domain is registered in and hosted in Turkey, they are notorious for not caring about online matters. And some other things like meta tags that look fishy, as well as the checkout which is not secure. Just wait for a decent ordering site.

Don't purchase in this site
http://www.ipump.it/en/vichy/hair-ca...e.html?lang=en

----------


## gutted

i think its already been released in france...not sure though.

It may be released in the UK this coming week or the week after.

----------


## greatjob!

> As far as the 20%, well I recall him saying that he applied integral calculus to calculate the area of a typical curve of a head. He then diferentiated the shape and found the min and max of the function of the head by finding the second derivative and setting equal to 0. This is how he got 15%min-30%max,  then he got the average of the two and adjusted for coveriance and inflation and thus we get 20%.


 ^
This is great! lol  :Big Grin:

----------


## thechamp

So is this product out yet or what?? Gutted you bought it?

----------


## JJJJrS

You'd think if this product really was as effective as I've seen claimed (ie. 35% increase in density, resulting in 1700 new hairs on average) that L'oreal would do a better job at advertising it than they have. There's hardly any information on it, confusion on the release date, where to purchase it etc. Seems strange for a product that would be a pretty huge deal for the hair loss world if these claims were true. Very suspicious but I'll continue to keep an eye on it.  :Wink:

----------


## gutted

> So is this product out yet or what?? Gutted you bought it?


 i think its available in some countries already, but will be released later in the month in other countries.

I have found a source here - > http://www.farmacianesima.it/2012/09...ic-14-flaconi/

only the 14 vial version is in stock though and not the 28 vials.
The seller is in italy, and said he would ship to the uk, so i have bought the 14 vial version today. He may ship to the US too.

----------


## new bubble

> i think its available in some countries already, but will be released later in the month in other countries.
> 
> I have found a source here - > http://www.farmacianesima.it/2012/09...ic-14-flaconi/
> 
> only the 14 vial version is in stock though and not the 28 vials.
> The seller is in italy, and said he would ship to the uk, so i have bought the 14 vial version today. He may ship to the US too.


 Best of luck with that, hope it works for you

----------


## Dazza

> i think its available in some countries already, but will be released later in the month in other countries.
> 
> I have found a source here - > http://www.farmacianesima.it/2012/09...ic-14-flaconi/
> 
> only the 14 vial version is in stock though and not the 28 vials.
> The seller is in italy, and said he would ship to the uk, so i have bought the 14 vial version today. He may ship to the US too.


 Indeed while I have my own doubts about this stuff, good luck and remember try to document as best as you can and let us know  :Smile:

----------


## gutted

like i said im the perfect cadidate for this to work on...my hair loss/sheds are down to "normal" levels implying androgens are not doing any "damage".

if this does any "waking up" it should be visible to me. will keep people updated.

----------


## Knockin on NW4

Anyone trying this please make before and after VIDEO. Pics are obsolete!!!

----------


## Kirby_

^ strongly agreed. After noticing the recent Tb4  experimentation on other hair forums, and the lack of all but one person to take and post photos, we _need_ people who give Neogenic a shot to collect visual evidence.

----------


## doke

[QUOTE=yeahyeahyeah;81176]Why is it called vichis and not loreal[/QU

Hi think vichy is a place in france and i think they must be part of L Oreal as vichy markets aminexil as well as L Oreal.
There is nothing wrong with vichy products as i have tried there energy aminexil spray and it is quite good.

----------


## LPSboxing

I'm in Italy and I just saw the tv commercial of the Neogenic.

Apparently is already out here in italy, and they're transmitting commercials.

They say "thickens up you hair in 90 days".....we'll see..

----------


## Erick

When will it available in the USA? We need to kidnap the CEO of Loreal and the truth from him once and for all. I didn't know Italians had a hair problem, I always hear that their women are hairy and are more more anal friendly.

----------


## LPSboxing

> When will it available in the USA? We need to kidnap the CEO of Loreal and the truth from him once and for all. I didn't know Italians had a hair problem, I always hear that their women are hairy and are more more anal friendly.


 ahah lol!

actually, here it's full of fat bald f*cks  :Big Grin:

----------


## niff1250

> They say "thickens up you hair in 90 days".....we'll see..


 First it was presented as a cure with a pseudo scientific theory behind it.
Then it was about some regrowth and thickening.
Today, it's about thickening but without regrowth.
Tommorow : snake oil

----------


## Erick

Well let's see what inside L'oreal knowledge Joe brings in tonight's show. How thick can hairs get, I mean will it actually look like you have more hair? I was hoping to have regrow some hair back. When will this madness end, stop hiding the cure from just for the sake of money ffs.

----------


## UK_

There you have it - no where does it state that this forumla grows new hair.

This is the fault of the journalists who were trying to hit their targets by creating bullshit headlines about "LOREAL WILL CURE HAIR LOSS IN SEPTEMBER" - greedy ****ing sales/journo people - running after viewer targets and commission.

----------


## new bubble

> There you have it - no where does it state that this forumla grows new hair.
> 
> This is the fault of the journalists who were trying to hit their targets by creating bullshit headlines about "LOREAL WILL CURE HAIR LOSS IN SEPTEMBER" - greedy ****ing sales/journo people - running after viewer targets and commission.


 a few pages back there was a pdf file from l'oreal that claimed 1700 new hairs on average were visible, or have they now changed tact

----------


## Kiwi

> a few pages back there was a pdf file from l'oreal that claimed 1700 new hairs on average were visible, or have they now changed tact


 No. Who said they have changed?

----------


## new bubble

> No. Who said they have changed?


 NO, i'm  not stating they have changed all i'm trying to say is I've read that PDF again and I can't see the "1700 hairs of new growth" on it.

So where did we get that info from, PAPERS. Also all this speculating will soon be over as our good friend/poster GUTTED has bought it and will be using it soon. He will tell us for sure, NO MORE SPECULATING

----------


## Kiwi

> NO, i'm  not stating they have changed all i'm trying to say is I've read that PDF again and I can't see the "1700 hairs of new growth" on it.
> 
> So where did we get that info from, PAPERS. Also all this speculating will soon be over as our good friend/poster GUTTED has bought it and will be using it soon. He will tell us for sure, NO MORE SPECULATING


 Did he buy it from the official site?

----------


## new bubble

> Did he buy it from the official site?


 from Italy, its out there. TV advertising and all.He posted the site back a page or two. Check it out

link;  http://www.farmacianesima.it/2012/09...ic-14-flaconi/

----------


## doke

I have just received my order for har voske only ordered it on sunday and received on weds so only two days not bad service, as i also got 15% off the price with a free pack and a topical as well so thats 4 months treatment.
I looked on there site and on the norway hairgain site and hairgain is different to nourkrin and viviscal in that it was trialed in norway and not as the others in finland and it was trialed for over 6 months with male pattern loss.
I will not link it here as the trials can be downloaded on there site but i thought as i triad nourkrin many years ago with some success i would try this as it contains grape seed extract and many olther things that the others do not contain.

----------


## LPSboxing

ok,

a lot of people on forums were messing the numbers up.

From the info I have been reading, l'oreal said :

- 4% more capillary density . - NOT 4% MORE HAIR DENSITY -

- 1700 'new' hair. Obviously it isn't going to create new follicles so those hair are awakened from stand-by state caused by bad stem cells working.


An average person has about 10.000 hair on the top area of the scalp. so 1700 more hair are 17% more density, which is not so bad after all.

I really hope the results are compoundable, and you can get more after 3 months doing a second cycle.

In my opinion when they say 'thicker hair' they are talking about overall density.

----------


## new bubble

> ok,
> 
> a lot of people on forums were messing the numbers up.
> 
> From the info I have been reading, l'oreal said :
> 
> - 4% more capillary density . - NOT 4% MORE HAIR DENSITY -
> 
> - 1700 'new' hair. Obviously it isn't going to create new follicles so those hair are awakened from stand-by state caused by bad stem cells working.
> ...


 Thanks for the clarity, L.  can you find those italian commercials online

----------


## LPSboxing

> Thanks for the clarity, L.  can you find those italian commercials online


 Probably yes, but believe me it would be a waste of your time. No info or detail is given, just the usual sad male and female with thin hair and a sad face and the background voice saying "today more than bla bla percent of men and women suffer from hair thinning bla bla......New Neogenic thickens your hair up in only 3 months"

The numbers I posted are taken from the L'oreal efficacy study.

----------


## new bubble

> Probably yes, but believe me it would be a waste of your time. No info or detail is given, just the usual sad male and female with thin hair and a sad face and the background voice saying "today more than bla bla percent of men and women suffer from hair thinning bla bla......New Neogenic thickens your hair up in only 3 months"
> 
> The numbers I posted are taken from the L'oreal efficacy study.


 thx anyway. i shall be tring it when it arrives here

----------


## NotBelievingIt

Only 10k on the top of the head?  wth, I thought the entire scalp had about 100,000 -- is the top of the scalp really that less dense then the sides?!

----------


## LPSboxing

To my knowledge, 100.000 is the entire head.

We tend to focus on the top, but if you think about it, the sides + the back is a lot of surface.

Much more that the top.

If it was 100.000 on top, a 2000 transplant would be totally un-noticable.

So I think that the 10.000 number can be real.

----------


## Kiwi

> I have just received my order for har voske only ordered it on sunday and received on weds so only two days not bad service, as i also got 15% off the price with a free pack and a topical as well so thats 4 months treatment.
> I looked on there site and on the norway hairgain site and hairgain is different to nourkrin and viviscal in that it was trialed in norway and not as the others in finland and it was trialed for over 6 months with male pattern loss.
> I will not link it here as the trials can be downloaded on there site but i thought as i triad nourkrin many years ago with some success i would try this as it contains grape seed extract and many olther things that the others do not contain.


 So what's it like to use? Is it a shampoo that is really thick like ketakonazil or something else entirely.

----------


## Kiwi

Even if this stuff could slow down my balding I'd be really happy!!!

----------


## doke

Anyone got there neogenic yet or are you waiting for the price to come down,its not avail in uk yet and its hard to get some sites to translate.

----------


## new bubble

> Anyone got there neogenic yet or are you waiting for the price to come down,its not avail in uk yet and its hard to get some sites to translate.


 Awaiting for UK, Gutted has got his from italy

----------


## gutted

> Anyone got there neogenic yet or are you waiting for the price to come down,its not avail in uk yet and its hard to get some sites to translate.


 its on its way, i should recieve it by sometime next week.

----------


## MrBlonde

You can get it from this Spanish site now

http://www.pharmasalud.com/en/504709...r-capilar.html

The add 80 for shipping but you can change it to standard mail during checkout which adds 30.  I just got ordered to Ireland for 74,90.

Its the 14 vial package and not the 28.

Lets hope this stuff works, i would be happy if it thickened existing hair and maintained.  I'm not optimistic for regrowth.  

Are there any instructions out there on how to apply this stuff?

----------


## Artista

Good luck gutted and the rest of you that have purchased this product. The rest of us will really appreciate your input.

----------


## aim4hair

> You can get it from this Spanish site now
> 
> http://www.pharmasalud.com/en/504709...r-capilar.html
> 
> The add 80 for shipping but you can change it to standard mail during checkout which adds 30.  I just got ordered to Ireland for 74,90.
> 
> Its the 14 vial package and not the 28.
> 
> Lets hope this stuff works, i would be happy if it thickened existing hair and maintained.  I'm not optimistic for regrowth.  
> ...


 It looks weird, how do you apply this thing ? 14 package will last you 14 days only right ?

----------


## MrBlonde

> It looks weird, how do you apply this thing ? 14 package will last you 14 days only right ?


 No idea yet.  Hopefully there will be clear instructions. I'm hoping its for the entire scalp so I can I use it only on my hairline as that is where I'm losing hair right now.  I should get a month or maybe more out of it this way.

From looking at the photo, my guess would be that you pop one of the vials into the bottom of that device with the roller head and just apply.  I will use it on my temples and a bit of the frontal hairline for now.

----------


## LPSboxing

> You can get it from this Spanish site now
> 
> http://www.pharmasalud.com/en/504709...r-capilar.html
> 
> The add 80 for shipping but you can change it to standard mail during checkout which adds 30.  I just got ordered to Ireland for 74,90.
> 
> Its the 14 vial package and not the 28.
> 
> Lets hope this stuff works, i would be happy if it thickened existing hair and maintained.  I'm not optimistic for regrowth.  
> ...


 The thickening effect is achieved by regrowth, not by actually making the hair shaft bigger

----------


## gutted

> The thickening effect is achieved by regrowth, not by actually making the hair shaft bigger


 yep...density is the major way to achieve a thickening effect and it is this what mpbers are losing.

I will only be using this on my temples and frontal region, as this is where i am clearley losing density, if it does anything it should be pretty noticable to me.

lets hope this works out.

----------


## LPSboxing

> yep...density is the major way to achieve a thickening effect and it is this what mpbers are losing.
> 
> I will only be using this on my temples and frontal region, as this is where i am clearley losing density, if it does anything it should be pretty noticable to me.
> 
> lets hope this works out.


 I will probably join the experimental team, very soon. I am just waiting for l'oreal to come forward with some explicit statements on efficacy.

But probably they won't.

----------


## gutted

> I will probably join the experimental team, very soon. I am just waiting for l'oreal to come forward with some explicit statements on efficacy.
> 
> But probably they won't.


 i dont know what more they can say ->

http://www.vichy.it/capelli/neogenic...cos/p5734.aspx

----------


## Breaking Bald

This should be interesting, is it known to have any possible side effects?

----------


## LPSboxing

> i dont know what more they can say ->
> 
> http://www.vichy.it/capelli/neogenic...cos/p5734.aspx


 Thank you for the link. I will check it out.

----------


## doke

You have to apply one a day for 3 months so this is really expensive with no proof of any regrowth.
It was like L Oreal aminexil or dercos man aminexil they were pricey in the beginning but when sales dropped off due to nor working you can now buy that cheaper.
Im thinking i wonder how much profit is in that product as we know the drug companies do have to pay for many years of trials on humans before sale,but i think these companies are really milking us.
No way am i buying that at that price of nearly £89 a month not sure how much it will be in uk but i should think it will be around the above price for one months treatment which is a rip off.

----------


## gutted

> You have to apply one a day for 3 months so this is really expensive with no proof of any regrowth.
> It was like L Oreal aminexil or dercos man aminexil they were pricey in the beginning but when sales dropped off due to nor working you can now buy that cheaper.
> Im thinking i wonder how much profit is in that product as we know the drug companies do have to pay for many years of trials on humans before sale,but i think these companies are really milking us.
> No way am i buying that at that price of nearly £89 a month not sure how much it will be in uk but i should think it will be around the above price for one months treatment which is a rip off.


 lool look on the bright side, at least theyre not telling us to use it "for life or results dissappear" like the manufacturers of rogaine/propecia do, if they really really wanted to milk us this would be the best way to do it  :Wink:

----------


## doke

true gutted but i really think that it should be half that price and do you really beleave that this product is only for three months as that would be a miracle for male pattern loss. :EEK!:  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## gutted

> true gutted but i really think that it should be half that price and do you really beleave that this product is only for three months as that would be a miracle for male pattern loss.


 who knows, they say to repeat it twice a year...but i believe its possible for results to last long, this is no exception...IF this works, that is.

----------


## doke

Hi gutted i hope it does really work as it would be good and we would all buy it then keep us posted.

----------


## gutted

> Hi gutted i hope it does really work as it would be good and we would all buy it then keep us posted.


 yeah lets hope it is.

----------


## LPSboxing

ok this just caught my attention :

http://www.*****************/interact...=1#post1098375

maybe is just some brain fart from a random forum poster, but is food for thoughts.

Who knows how long the safety of this stemoxybullshit was tested?

----------


## NotDyingBald

Already available in Portugal too. Although it has rapidly went out of stock. I´ll check if it is available in local pharmacy.

To those who already purchased it, don´t forget to take pictures or vídeo.

"Pics or it didn´t happen" its one of the first things i´ve learned in this forum.

And that its apllicable for wether it works or not!

----------


## Kirby_

^ yes, everyone, do take photos, even if you're not willing to post them online. Writing off treatments as useless is just as vital as proving that they work to some extent...

----------


## thechamp

Guess I'll wait a d see how guted goes?

----------


## vinnytr

> its on its way, i should recieve it by sometime next week.


 What NW are you mate ?

----------


## new bubble

> You have to apply one a day for 3 months so this is really expensive with no proof of any regrowth.
> It was like L Oreal aminexil or dercos man aminexil they were pricey in the beginning but when sales dropped off due to nor working you can now buy that cheaper.
> Im thinking i wonder how much profit is in that product as we know the drug companies do have to pay for many years of trials on humans before sale,but i think these companies are really milking us.
> No way am i buying that at that price of nearly £89 a month not sure how much it will be in uk but i should think it will be around the above price for one months treatment which is a rip off.


 
its a bad strategy by l'oreal to stagger the launches of neogenics as
people will try it and then post there findings on the net, more people are on the internet these days than they were when aminexil was launched and most are on forums like this so there's no hiding place for companies. If a few post a negative comment many will not purchase it now and certainly not in the future, the power pendulum is in the consumers hand. So in my opinion there will be some kind of result but question is how much and for how long!

----------


## gutted

> What NW are you mate ?


 im a norwood 2, diffuse in the frontal region and is where i will only be applying.

i am using other stuff too, so results may be slightley blurred, but ive been on them for 18+ months now.

surprisingly ive already recieved the package from italy, didnt take too long.

----------


## Jcm800

How long did delivery take gutted? How much all in all?

----------


## gutted

> How long did delivery take gutted? How much all in all?


 around 2/3 days.

it was about £65 in total for the 14 vials.

----------


## Jcm800

Wow that's fast delivery. So, with that amount and hairline usage-how long do you anticipate 14 vials will last? 
I'd be using it that way myself so curious

----------


## gutted

> Wow that's fast delivery. So, with that amount and hairline usage-how long do you anticipate 14 vials will last? 
> I'd be using it that way myself so curious


 i dunno, im guessing 1 vial has the potential to last a week. 
And its not a lotion, its a liquid.

----------


## Jcm800

Interesting thanks. Let me know how much you're going to apply and how often please once you've sussed it. I'm thinking of following suite shortly myself

----------


## gutted

> Interesting thanks. Let me know how much you're going to apply and how often please once you've sussed it. I'm thinking of following suite shortly myself


 will do mate.

----------


## niff1250

I got it (from the italian site).
Nothing to report so far. 6ml is huge, basically it has been designed to cover  your all scalp. Doesn't seem to cause itching or whatever.

----------


## gutted

just seen it listed on ebay - > http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DERCOS-VIC...item2ec1c72332

----------


## dex89

> just seen it listed on ebay - > http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DERCOS-VIC...item2ec1c72332


 Just read the description

"Hair loss affects millions of men and women worldwide. While thinning hair can be the result of many factors including illness, medication, trauma and even stress, most often it is caused by a genetic condition known asandrogenic alopecia. Recently, scientists discovered that people who are going bald still have a full head of viable hair follicles that have effectively gone to sleep. In other words, these follicles still have the potential to regrow hair but have fallen into a permanent rest cycle. The trick has been learning how to wake them up again and Neogenic promises to do just that."


Hope this is true...Please guys keep us posted, will definitely add this to my regime if I see positive results

----------


## lothar99

Thanks for the link.  I bought one.

----------


## Erick

They are selling like pancakes, that is to say very fast. I am temped to buy this, but it's freaking $111 dollars for one month. What does it have, gold? I mean come on, wtf. Anyways, you guys who already have bought it need to make videos. 

The question and my main concern is, what happens after you stop using it? Will the shedding come back with a vengeance? Which is typically what happens with any medication and lotion.

----------


## Dazza

> They are selling like pancakes, that is to say very fast. I am temped to buy this.


 soon find out if this is expensive snake oil or not. Will have alot of feed back soon.  :Smile:

----------


## lothar99

6 mL per dose is enormous so I am planning on probably doing two does per vial for now

Cost more than 111 with shipping to the US :/

----------


## Erick

> 6 mL per dose is enormous so I am planning on probably doing two does per vial for now
> 
> Cost more than 111 with shipping to the US :/


 Where did you get it from bro, ebay? 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DERCOS-VICHY...item2ec1c72332

Who here is willing to donate to me 3 months supply of this stuff? If you are making thousands of dollars a month, don't be a greedy Jew and share it with the rest of the sufferers here.

----------


## Jcm800

Erick-calling ppl with money greedy 'Jews' isn't really an apt way to go about sponging some  supplies..

----------


## Kiwi

> Erick-calling ppl with money greedy 'Jews' isn't really an apt way to go about sponging some  supplies..


 Lol was thinking the same thing... But cracking up a little too...

----------


## lothar99

> Where did you get it from bro, ebay? 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DERCOS-VICHY...item2ec1c72332
> 
> Who here is willing to donate to me 3 months supply of this stuff? If you are making thousands of dollars a month, don't be a greedy Jew and share it with the rest of the sufferers here.


 You sound like a moron, and yes I bought it from there.

----------


## Dazza

> Where did you get it from bro, ebay? 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DERCOS-VICHY...item2ec1c72332
> 
> Who here is willing to donate to me 3 months supply of this stuff? If you are making thousands of dollars a month, don't be a greedy Jew and share it with the rest of the sufferers here.


 How about getting a better job? Or stop wasting your money on crap.. Just made yourself out to be a bit of a twat. Congrats on that..

----------


## baldybald

well , maybe in the USA, they buy it like this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vichy-Derc..._qi=RTM1146932

----------


## lothar99

> well , maybe in the USA, they buy it like this:
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vichy-Derc..._qi=RTM1146932


 Careful.  This is Aminexil or however you spell it not Neogenic

----------


## doke

If you want to test this neogenic then you have to be prepaired to use the 6ml phials one a day for 3 months otherwise you will be waisting your time,not only that it will not prove the product works if you do not follow the instructions.

----------


## doke

> Careful.  This is Aminexil or however you spell it not Neogenic


 yes its aminexil :Confused:  so the wrong product as this ones been out many years you need neogenic which is not for sale on ebay as yet.

----------


## jls008

Actually, neogenic was for sale on ebay yesterday from a spain dealer.  I bought 3 of them for about $100 a piece. Within an hour I received a tracking number that they are coming from Spain.  They are now sold out.  I should have them within a week and will report results in a few months.

----------


## aim4hair

Sorry if those questions been asked before, i just can't find them.
1) what are the potential side effects mentioned on label ?
2) should this be used daily forever just like minox and fin and once you stop you lose everything you gained ?
3) does it dry fast once applied or it takes forever like minox liquid ?

----------


## gutted

> Sorry if those questions been asked before, i just can't find them.
> 1) what are the potential side effects mentioned on label ?
> 2) should this be used daily forever just like minox and fin and once you stop you lose everything you gained ?
> 3) does it dry fast once applied or it takes forever like minox liquid ?


 1 - no side effects on the lables
2 - periodically (twice a year) - this is not minoxidil
3 - yes, although the applicator is pretty much useless, i use a dropper to apply.

----------


## aim4hair

> 1 - no side effects on the lables
> 2 - periodically (twice a year) - this is not minoxidil
> 3 - yes, although the applicator is pretty much useless, i use a dropper to apply.


 thanks man, hope it works for you, im only using minox once aday now.. so, im planning to add this product as well..

----------


## Erick

Man you guys can't take anything, we all know it's a stereotype to say Jews are greedy. I thought it would be funny, those type of shit shouldn't offend you because they're said just for the f**k of saying it. And no I don't care when they talk about my race, beliefs et cetera. 

I was genuinely asking for a donation of this stuff, was not really trying to offend anyone. And yes, if I would be able to get good job I would, believe me.

----------


## johnnyboots

Someone please let me know when i can order it,i live in new york.

----------


## Erick

Dude you can get it today if you want. And while you're at it buy me a case too  :Smile: 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DERCOS-VICHY...item2c6833e782

----------


## johnnyboots

> Dude you can get it today if you want. And while you're at it buy me a case too 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DERCOS-VICHY...item2c6833e782


 thanks bro cant help u with the free case,im italian btw lol.

----------


## johnnyboots

by the way how long does one order last?

----------


## doke

> by the way how long does one order last?


 28 neogenic phials 6ml   lasts just under one month so its pricey although i think its used for 3 months one a day and then twice a year at that.
For me the price will have to come down and also user results if any,i wonder if the dercos pro man aminexil is any use as its an improved formula that also is a three months use,im nor sure though with male patten loss if you need to keep using as dht will still be in the scalp.

----------


## Jcm800

Yeah it's a bit pricey eh doke. Think I'll wait a little to see if gutted etc start to report benefits. 

Got my fingers crossed but who knows..

----------


## Dazza

For me the price ain't too bad, &#163;68 x 3 = &#163;204 x 2 = &#163;408 a year. That in the scale of things is nothing. I spend more in two months on utter shite. 

I'm not touching this tho untill there are Atleast some results.

----------


## doke

hi jc it will be pricey as i say i cannot see you only being able to use it for three months as we all know mpb needs constant applications or oral as well.
And if we need to use every day through the year it will need to come down in  price.
How are you doin jc are you still on trx2.

----------


## NotDyingBald

To all those who bought it,

Don´t forget to take pictures or vídeo. Not just to show to others, but for youselves also.

How many of us end up saying "hmm I think this worked, or not".

Once again, "pictures, or it didn´t happen"

Hope to get mine soon

----------


## thechamp

Can I buy this any where or just eBay

----------


## Kirby_

Wonder if it'll be released here in the UK... If it doesn't get made available here (like Aminexil isn't) that'll be a sure sign this is junk, LOL.

Edit: their UK address if anyone wants to write in and ask (they don't accept emails)

L’Or&#233;al UK Ltd
255 Hammersmith Road
London
W6 8AZ

----------


## Erick

Imagine if ironically after all these years with L'oreal, Replicel, Adorans, et cetera that it turns out that snake oil is really the cure to baldness. All we had to do was to mix it with a bit of lemon and bam we have ourselves the miracle cure.

----------


## NotBelievingIt

> Imagine if ironically after all these years with L'oreal, Replicel, Adorans, et cetera that it turns out that snake oil is really the cure to baldness. All we had to do was to mix it with a bit of lemon and bam we have ourselves the miracle cure.


 funny thing is...you may not be entirely far off the eventual truth.

Every so many years something new is found, it works some miracles in a few rare cases but for most its not enough.  But then something else is...for a few more.

The end picture will either be pure genetics or some globule of brown goo made up of 15 different things you put on your head at night and it just works.

----------


## Erick

Quantum theory says that it's completely possible for a set of hairs to materialize on our head on any given instant. With that being said, why does it not happen to me. Everyone focus your conscious minds at me at exactly 5pm pacific  time this Thuesday. This will give extra power, and I should be able to easily manifest hair on my head.

----------


## Lazoid

> Imagine if ironically after all these years with L'oreal, Replicel, Adorans, et cetera that it turns out that snake oil is really the cure to baldness. All we had to do was to mix it with a bit of lemon and bam we have ourselves the miracle cure.


 Hahaha absolute gold

----------


## kanyon

It's ridiculous that it can't be bought on the l'oreal or Vichy websites.

----------


## thechamp

Have they officially launched this product!!

----------


## doke

If this product neogenic was any good or a cure for mpb it would be front news headlines so dont waste your monies guys,its another scam.

----------


## gutted

> Have they officially launched this product!!


 its been launched in some countries, i doubt the usa will get it anytime soon, your best bet would be to buy from that seller on ebay.

----------


## thechamp

So one month we will know of it works!!!

----------


## madeinitaly

Hi guys,

new here...i read all your posts, very useful.

im italian but i live in london, and yes i'm a NW2 so i do appreciate all the information i got on here........thanks!!!!..about L'oreal....i hope it will work!!! i don't like L'oreal btw...not at all....overrated usually....but if they developed something cool.....good for us!!!

straight to the point: this is how i stop my hair loss:..

- i changed shampoo first thing......i use a natural shampoo....name is Absalom...( no..i'm not a marketing guy..i found it on internet...u can choose another one but choose one all natural)
i really like it..all natural...and yes ..trust me i have always used any shampoo on my hands but i'm pretty sure i was allergic to Sulfate or something similar made my head red....my hair look sick..now is getting better...much better....

- I bought Har vokse the supplement and he really stopped my hair falling down...in 17 days!! no regrowth yet....not at all for now....and maybe there will never be......so if u want to ask me if har vokse growing back your hair for now the answer is no!! but it really stopped my hair loss....i'm pretty happy with that! i mean really stopped it....this is for me already a good point!! no side effects and actually i'm very happy with it....just personal opinion...

I don't want give you advices but i was on italian forum as well  before and... i know for you the hair loss is a big problem ....for me as well.....a lot.....my hair is so important to me.....but **** sake guys...please fellas don't use propecia or minoxidil.....i have so many friends in italy used them and they had so many side effects in the long period......what the hell is a head full of hair if you guys after that you can't even **** a chick like before!!! loooooooool guys!!! erection is important!!! actually 50% of us, we have to admit, we want our hair back to feel younger and get nice chicks....i grow up with american porn.... ahahahah....but if u cant even **** them....what's the point???i know you don't wanna wait for a  cure but guys....if you lose your best friend ....you will have a big ****ing problem!!!i will update the har vokse stuff if you are interested....how someone said on here...wtf is the point if we don't buy the new stuffs how do we know if they work or not!!?? but we have to post immediately if they are scam sniking shit.....

Best regards fellas!!! and remember we need to be like Rocco Siffredi...not too much hair but our **** always reactive...ahaha

and i want to be honest with all of you...i work in nightclubs in London..i meet milions people every night .....the woman love boldy fellas.....it's a animal things....so put your healthy body up front your head full of hair......of course if there will be a safe solution i will be the first!! 

ciao brothers!!!

----------


## gutted

> So one month we will know of it works!!!


 more like 3 months...but im on other things as well, so im no reliable indicator of this working since i believe the other stuff im on works too.

perhaps someone will be using this alone, will be more of a reliable indicator.

----------


## aim4hair

> please fellas don't use propecia or minoxidil.....i have so many friends in italy used them and they had so many side effects in the long period......what the hell is a head full of hair if you guys after that you can't even **** a chick like before!!! loooooooool guys!!! erection is important!!! actually 50% of us, we have to admit, we want our hair back to feel younger and get nice chicks....i grow up with american porn.... ahahahah....but if u cant even **** them....what's the point???i know you don't wanna wait for a  cure but guys....if you lose your best friend ....you will have a big ****ing problem!!!i


 i know this is off topic, but what minoxidil has to do with losing "your best friend" or erection ? Propecia is the one with sextual sides not minox

Back to topic, i think the price is not that expensive if we really just need to use this 6 months a year.

----------


## madeinitaly

[QUOTE=aim4hair;82414]i know this is off topic, but what minoxidil has to do with losing "your best friend" or erection ? Propecia is the one with sextual sides not minox


i didn't want judge anyone and i will never do it......the point is...so many Italians writing this on forum!!!!countless .... i never used it......but i read so many bad comments of people saying it....the only thing i did is this: i went to my family doctor and obviously he knows since before i was born... 30 years...he said to me straight in the face....don't use it!!!....what should i trust?? the pharmaceutics developed it or the doctor saw me before i was born? i dunno mate..too much money involved in this products....if there is any side effects reported i won't  purchase them...but this is personal....only about me.

----------


## garethbale

Har Vokse?!

What the hell is that?  Sounds like a snake oil.

----------


## 2020

no one cares about stopping hair loss... plenty of treatments to halt and reverse some of your your baldness if you have time and money however there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to regrow lost hair

----------


## garethbale

Minoxidil can regrow lost hair although it is pretty ineffective.

Stopping hair loss is important to those (like myself) who still have the majority of their hair.  Also, it wouldn't be very useful to be able to regrow lost hair if your own hair still fell out.

I agree that regrowing hair is key though, we all want our juvenile hairline back

----------


## madeinitaly

lol i care....a lot.......i stopped it for now....it is just another supplement....i tried to purchase it and i'm quiet happy...it does not regrowth hair...not at the moment anyway...but i cannot complain....

----------


## doke

Hi madein i respect your point of view on propecia but for me it never gave any sides dutasteride did  but i use it in conjuction with ha voske but only been on ha v for just a week so early days i do know if i stop finasteride my hair will start falling out again and i have been on it many years now.

----------


## madeinitaly

[QUOTE=doke;82463]Hi madein i respect your point of view on propecia but for me it never gave any sides dutasteride did  but i use it in conjuction with ha voske but only been on ha v for just a week so early days i do know if i stop finasteride my hair will start falling out again and i have been on it many years now.

hi Doke! i will tell you if har vokse will do anything.......for now stopped my hair loss....about L'oreal... in italy in all the pharmacy u can but already the new l'oreal product!!! i don't understand why it is already in all the italian pharmacies before England and the official launch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!what do you think??

----------


## doke

hi madein im not sure about L Oreal neogenic not being on sale yet in uk it might be that it will be marketed by vichy dercos overseas and L oreal in uk or the other way round.
Like on the bald truth recent radio programme it was talked about L Oreal and if this neogenic was the magic thing for mpb it would be front line news everywhere but its not so im a bit sceptical that its the thing to use for us.
Have your heard of ducray anistim and chronostim for hair loss as im thinking another french product.
On another topic madein have you heard of italian motorcycle company fantic motor? as i heard they are back making bikes again although not for sale in uk yet.

----------


## Kirby_

This product may never reach the UK, or other large European markets such as Germany, as Aminexil hasn't. My scepticism levels will remain high if it doesn't.

----------


## gutted

> This product may never reach the UK, or other large European markets such as Germany, as Aminexil hasn't. My scepticism levels will remain high if it doesn't.


 it should be released in the UK, when?? who knows.

----------


## madeinitaly

> hi madein im not sure about L Oreal neogenic not being on sale yet in uk it might be that it will be marketed by vichy dercos overseas and L oreal in uk or the other way round.
> Like on the bald truth recent radio programme it was talked about L Oreal and if this neogenic was the magic thing for mpb it would be front line news everywhere but its not so im a bit sceptical that its the thing to use for us.
> Have your heard of ducray anistim and chronostim for hair loss as im thinking another french product.
> On another topic madein have you heard of italian motorcycle company fantic motor? as i heard they are back making bikes again although not for sale in uk yet.


 a bit strange......i mean...not real Launch and already in all Italian pharmacies!!!! i smell Italian job here!!! ahahahahahaha
ps: Fantic motor is very cool.....they will be back on 2013...and sure they will delivery worldwide.( some partenrs will help them)..or they will use some different store of other brands but definitely you will get them....i really love those motorbike a lot.

----------


## Smiley

My skepticism lies in the the fact L'Oreal has been so secret about it. If it truly did what it claimed, wouldn't they want to do a global release? Looks to me like they are testing it in small markets to see what the feedback is.

Anyway, I'd like to thank those who are actually trying it for us (and themselves  :Stick Out Tongue:  ) please keep us updated on your progress with this "treatment". Good luck.

----------


## Kirby_

> it should be released in the UK, when?? who knows.


 I wrote a letter to their UK branch asking about a UK release date (they don't accept emails) on behalf of BTT forum-goers.

I've PMed you at HLH, incidentally.

----------


## Kirby_

> My skepticism lies in the the fact L'Oreal has been so secret about it. If it truly did what it claimed, wouldn't they want to do a global release? Looks to me like they are testing it in small markets to see what the feedback is.


 That's my thinking too. Looks odd how they've sidestepped two of the biggest European markets, at least for now.

----------


## madeinitaly

http://www.bioricrescita.it/news-cap...nto-capillare/


read this guys....please translate it......about l'oreal

----------


## 2020

> This is an active ingredient that can awaken the follicles "sleep in" and get them back to produce hair. Announced by L 'Oréal, is available from September *at a cost to the patient of approximately one thousand euro per year.*


 


> According to the clinical study of Vichy, led to three months of 101 men aged between 18 and 55 years with a significant loss of hair and localized treatments is* increased capillary density by 4%,  with an average gain of 1700 each hair.*


 they must be trolling... in that official document it said that they have been working at this for the past 20 years. Then they even did a presentation and took out an ad. All this for 4%? They either know something we don't or they're just plain idiots

----------


## eqvist

> http://www.bioricrescita.it/news-cap...nto-capillare/
> 
> 
> read this guys....please translate it......about l'oreal


 U can do it with google-translate, but no need it´s just a company who dirty-talks another and offers their "much better, real cure"

About neogenic, the hope seems to be gone like always!! It must be something weird in this shitty business!!! It´s impossible that none can make a single product that really works!!

----------


## Erick

> U can do it with google-translate, but no need it´s just a company who dirty-talks another and offers their "much better, real cure"
> 
> About neogenic, the hope seems to be gone like always!! It must be something weird in this shitty business!!! It´s impossible that none can make a single product that really works!!


 Well that page sucks for 2 reasons, the translate is not good enough and the freaking page has some kind of a virus which made my computer crash. 

Anyways 4% is not much at all, in fact I was hoping for the 20% everyone was talking about including me. It does seem like they're promoting their own product so don't believe shit that article says.

----------


## Xestenz

> Anyways 4% is not much at all, in fact I was hoping for the 20% everyone was talking about including me. It does seem like they're promoting their own product so don't believe shit that article says.


 Yes, there is a dearth of real information on this product available, but please people this has been covered - the 4% refers to an increase in _capillary density_ and not in hair growth!

If/when someone on the board here receives and starts to use this product, can you please relay some quick information like:
Details on the application instructions
Smell, consistency of the formulation
Ease or difficulty in application
Any special requirements (such as leaving the lotion in place on your head for 30 minutes per application, etc.)
Any notable sensations when applying (heat, itching, etc.)

Thank you in advance!

----------


## thechamp

I'll wait one and half months see what results you guys habe

----------


## gutted

> Yes, there is a dearth of real information on this product available, but please people this has been covered - the 4% refers to an increase in _capillary density_ and not in hair growth!
> 
> If/when someone on the board here receives and starts to use this product, can you please relay some quick information like:
> Details on the application instructions
> Smell, consistency of the formulation
> Ease or difficulty in application
> Any special requirements (such as leaving the lotion in place on your head for 30 minutes per application, etc.)
> Any notable sensations when applying (heat, itching, etc.)
> 
> Thank you in advance!


 Details on the application instructions - Its in italian so didnt really read it but the pictures suggest you use the applicator, but imo its pretty much useless and the liquid solution is wasted when using the applicator to apply.

Smell, consistency of the formulation - smells of perfume (and reminds me of the many snake oil products ive used before!!!)

Ease or difficulty in application - i use a dropper to apply the solution rather than the applicator 

Any special requirements (such as leaving the lotion in place on your head for 30 minutes per application, etc.) - no special requirements, i just apply at night and leave on.

Any notable sensations when applying (heat, itching, etc.) - there is a sensation, but cant really describe what it is.

----------


## Kirby_

From an Italian pharmacy website (which I won't link to), here is a stated list of ingredients: Alcohol Denat., Diethyllutidinate, Citric Acid, Safflower Glucoside, Parfum/Fragrance.  :Confused:

----------


## gutted

> From an Italian pharmacy website (which I won't link to), here is a stated list of ingredients: Alcohol Denat., Diethyllutidinate, Citric Acid, Safflower Glucoside, Parfum/Fragrance.


 and stemoxydine 5%.

----------


## doke

> a bit strange......i mean...not real Launch and already in all Italian pharmacies!!!! i smell Italian job here!!! ahahahahahaha
> ps: Fantic motor is very cool.....they will be back on 2013...and sure they will delivery worldwide.( some partenrs will help them)..or they will use some different store of other brands but definitely you will get them....i really love those motorbike a lot.


 Hi madein i had a 1978 fantic chopper im showing my age now a 6 speed 50cc it was great bike,and i remember the caballero i think i spelt that right.
Is there any of the old choppers still around in italy as they would be over 30years old,there are some rebuilt in uk but are expensive up to £4000 to get hold of one if you are lucky.

----------


## Xestenz

> Details on the application instructions - Its in italian so didnt really read it but the pictures suggest you use the applicator, but imo its pretty much useless and the liquid solution is wasted when using the applicator to apply.
> 
> Smell, consistency of the formulation - smells of perfume (and reminds me of the many snake oil products ive used before!!!)
> 
> Ease or difficulty in application - i use a dropper to apply the solution rather than the applicator 
> 
> Any special requirements (such as leaving the lotion in place on your head for 30 minutes per application, etc.) - no special requirements, i just apply at night and leave on.
> 
> Any notable sensations when applying (heat, itching, etc.) - there is a sensation, but cant really describe what it is.


 Thank you -- that's perfect.

----------


## Erick

Man, what's going on with this thread lately. I signed in today and saw it was the 6th one in the list. Have people already interest in this product? We need to keep this one alive for at least 3 months until we get the results in. So I guess the 22nd of this month is coming up around the corner, let's see what we see that day.

----------


## Breaking Bald

> Man, what's going on with this thread lately. I signed in today and saw it was the 6th one in the list. Have people already interest in this product? We need to keep this one alive for at least 3 months until we get the results in. So I guess the 22nd of this month is coming up around the corner, let's see what we see that day.


 What's the point in spanning it out? If...and that's a big IF, we see any results in people it won't be until at least 2-3 months. So I would just sit tight and wait it out. What more cane we discuss? It seems difficult to find any REAL evidence that this stuff is actually going to work. There's hardly any info on it...seems strange to me.

----------


## Kiwi

> What's the point in spanning it out? If...and that's a big IF, we see any results in people it won't be until at least 2-3 months. So I would just sit tight and wait it out. What more cane we discuss? It seems difficult to find any REAL evidence that this stuff is actually going to work. There's hardly any info on it...seems strange to me.


 I reckon. 

I was thinking about that today. Nothing on baldingblog either - I wonder whether that means the HT docs are scared that good things are coming.

Imagine if this does do what they say - couple it with Histogen and a FUE and you're going to look cosmetically a lot better!!!

----------


## TravisB

I wonder if Fin could maintain hairs grown by this?

----------


## LPSboxing

I'll say it again :

*by the official papers, it's NOT 4% more density, it is 4% more CAPILLARY DENSITY.

they say around 1700 more hair. If we assume the top of the head having about 10000 hair, it's a +17% in density*

I mean, what the hell guys. A lot of people fell for much more crappy 'products' and scams, and yet almost no one is giving this one a fair try before bashing it.

what's with this attitude?

I know a lot of us are tired of useless products but......

----------


## gutted

> I'll say it again :
> 
> *by the official papers, it's NOT 4% more density, it is 4% more CAPILLARY DENSITY.
> 
> they say around 1700 more hair. If we assume the top of the head having about 10000 hair, it's a +17% in density*
> 
> I mean, what the hell guys. A lot of people fell for much more crappy 'products' and scams, and yet almost no one is giving this one a fair try before bashing it.
> 
> what's with this attitude?
> ...


 lool this is why forums are hardly a reliable source of information. One misinformed post and it spreads everywhere!

----------


## HectorHero

> I'll say it again :
> 
> *by the official papers, it's NOT 4% more density, it is 4% more CAPILLARY DENSITY.
> 
> they say around 1700 more hair. If we assume the top of the head having about 10000 hair, it's a +17% in density*
> 
> I mean, what the hell guys. A lot of people fell for much more crappy 'products' and scams, and yet almost no one is giving this one a fair try before bashing it.
> 
> what's with this attitude?
> ...


 Human Head has ~100,000 - 150,000 hairs -- not 10,000.

----------


## LPSboxing

> Human Head has ~100,000 - 150,000 hairs -- not 10,000.


 yeah but all over.

we are talking about the mpb zone.

You are not going to apply neogenic to the sides and back if there's no thinning there

----------


## baldybald

it is available in ebay but, am not buying it !!

----------


## Erick

Yes those numbers sound fair, however I personally would have to apply it the sides as well an hope for the best.

Anyone if the show will be live next week?

----------


## thechamp

http://www.*********.com/

----------


## thechamp

Any one tried this *********

----------


## thechamp

trich ozed

----------


## thatkidd

Why is there no information on this product AT ALL? Not on the companies website...if you google it, almost nothing comes up.

WTH?

----------


## Kirby_

I asked Loreal and Vichy UK for information (to share with BTT for those curious about the product) and neither have even heard of it.

----------


## gutted

found on another forum.

seems like they plan to phase its releasse in the different markets.

----------


## gutted



----------


## UK_

Do not buy this crap it is most likely a complete scam - those before/after pictures are hilarious.

----------


## gutted

> Do not buy this crap it is most likely a complete scam - those before/after pictures are hilarious.


 notice they say "forum infiltration" lol

then again its not like propecia do not engage in this sort of behaviour.

----------


## thechamp

Have they even launched this product yet and gutted are you doubting this product!!

----------


## gutted

> Have they even launched this product yet and gutted are you doubting this product!!


 dude, there is always going to be doubt on forums. Nothing is concrete what works for one person should really work for most people but the key here is, there are alot of variables involved which make it "appear" like its not doing much for those people that dont respond when in actual fact it really is doing something behind the scenes.

As for neogenic, im still using it, i will give an objective update in the end of my trial period. To me it looks like it will only be marginally effective, no miracle cure that will bring back full density, but i cant say for *sure*.

----------


## Jasari

Gutted, out of interest what level of hairloss do you have?

----------


## NotBelievingIt

the problem with that before/after pic a few posts above is that the 'new' hairs are somehow thicker and longer than those that already existed and clearly have grown.  Almost as if they were directly targetted to grow and be resistant to the growth inhibition the others face.

In other words, while inticing, I don't believe it to be real.  :Frown:

----------


## 67mph

Snake oil for the modern age, be careful out there guys.

In all theory, the modern snake oils should be more obvious to spot than those of a few years ago, thanks to forums like this.

Just have to keep your wits about you!!

...wake up and smell the snake oil people.

----------


## UK_

The modern snake oils read into what actual researchers are up to and provide bullshit products that "activate dormant hair follicles" or "act as WNT hair stimulating compounds" - new snake oil uses sophisticated language we all buy into.

No different to the "pentapeptides" bullshit they shovel in the faces of women. 

All bullshit marketing.

The funny thing is with Neogenic - Loreal doesnt even know about it hahaha, write in to their research centres and they will ask you wtf you are talking about.

----------


## thechamp

You guys are writing this off as snake oil give it a chance

----------


## Dazza

> You guys are writing this off as snake oil give it a chance


 And by "give it a chance" I'm guessing you are also trying this "treatment"? 

Or are you trying to encourage people to try this for your own cause so you can see if it's a snake oil by them testing this for you. 

Why don't you take your own advice and "give it a chance"

No?

I have to agree somewhat with UK_ on his last post.

----------


## thechamp

No I'm waiting for gutted results :Smile:

----------


## UK_

gutted will be gutted

----------


## Dazza

> No I'm waiting for gutted results


 Thought as much....

----------


## garethbale

> The funny thing is with Neogenic - Loreal doesnt even know about it hahaha, write in to their research centres and they will ask you wtf you are talking about.


 You have to laugh at this.  The nerve these people display to use a cosmetic giant like Loreal to front this when Loreal have never heard of it.  The fact that it isn't supplied from the UK or US just adds weight to the claim that its bullshit.  No, its shipped from Spain, the epicentre of ground breaking hair loss research!

----------


## Erick

Hello guys, after finally getting enough money for a new treatment I am not sure as to whether to try this new L'oreal neogenic or the trx2 and vit C. If you were in my situation which one would you pick? 

I am norwood 1/2 most likely 1 diffused.
26 years old.
been on propecia for 2 years( seen very good results and no side effects except for the initial blinding testicular pain the first 2 days.)
I use Nizoral and sulfate free shampoo.

----------


## 30plus

This stuff really does look like cr*p.

If it REALLY did something then L'oreal would be all over TV, radio etc promoting this stuff.

The reason they are not is because they don't want the public scrutiny that it would get.

That's why they've hid it under a cr*p brand and are releasing it stealthily hoping some mug will pay a ridiculous price for this stuff.

As skeptical as I am about TRX2 (and if you doubt it read my 50+ posts on how disappointed overall I am with it) at least it does SOMETHING apart from tear holes in your wallet.

----------


## gutted

> Gutted, out of interest what level of hairloss do you have?


 nw 2 diffuse.

----------


## elusive52

hey gutted (and anyone else already using neogenic)...

just a quick question. Are you using the entire 6ml for every application? i got my wife to apply the first one and she could of easily covered the entire thinning part of my scalp (the whole of the top) 2-3 times over.

i have decided to use the whole 6ml for each application, only because it seems that is what is supposed to be done, and if i spread it out i would never know if the results may of been different had i used it all for each application.

at least this way i know for sure if it truly works or not, no doubts...

what are your thoughts?

cheers.

----------


## gutted

> hey gutted (and anyone else already using neogenic)...
> 
> just a quick question. Are you using the entire 6ml for every application? i got my wife to apply the first one and she could of easily covered the entire thinning part of my scalp (the whole of the top) 2-3 times over.
> 
> i have decided to use the whole 6ml for each application, only because it seems that is what is supposed to be done, and if i spread it out i would never know if the results may of been different had i used it all for each application.
> 
> at least this way i know for sure if it truly works or not, no doubts...
> 
> what are your thoughts?
> ...


 
i use about roughly a quarter in the frontal region/temples Only. A vial seems to last me 3 days.

If your applying in the whole of the mpb region then i suppose it would be best to stick to what they advise.

----------


## the_dude78

> hey gutted (and anyone else already using neogenic)...
> 
> just a quick question. Are you using the entire 6ml for every application? i got my wife to apply the first one and she could of easily covered the entire thinning part of my scalp (the whole of the top) 2-3 times over.
> 
> i have decided to use the whole 6ml for each application, only because it seems that is what is supposed to be done, and if i spread it out i would never know if the results may of been different had i used it all for each application.
> 
> at least this way i know for sure if it truly works or not, no doubts...
> 
> what are your thoughts?
> ...


 
Doesn't this come with an instruction on how to apply it??

----------


## 67mph

A couple of you are still debating about how to use this or even want to buy it etc, wtaf!

Some of us are warning you guys to not fall for shit like this, as clearly you're new to the whole snake oil bs that's out there, stop filling these big corps pockets with your well earned cash, guys!!

I'm getting off this thread, for good, it's far too depressing for words.

DO THE FRIGGIN' RESEARCH, if there's nothing to go by then don't buy!!?

Right, where's the next bullshit thread on the 'new' hairloss cure product (that only women would tend to fall for), new to the baldo market...?

----------


## LPSboxing

> A couple of you are still debating about how to use this or even want to buy it etc, wtaf!
> 
> Some of us are warning you guys to not fall for shit like this, as clearly you're new to the whole snake oil bs that's out there, stop filling these big corps pockets with your well earned cash, guys!!
> 
> I'm getting off this thread, for good, it's far too depressing for words.
> 
> DO THE FRIGGIN' RESEARCH, if there's nothing to go by then don't buy!!?
> 
> Right, where's the next bullshit thread on the 'new' hairloss cure product (that only women would tend to fall for), new to the baldo market...?


 It's called desperation, and we all are like that in a way or another.

A lot of 'skeptics' are just waiting for others to be a guinea pig. Without the others that are trying this, they probably would be using it.

Maybe you too. No personal eh, just saying...

----------


## elusive52

> Doesn't this come with an instruction on how to apply it??


 it tells 'how' to apply but it doesnt say whether or not to use all the 6ml per application.

im just assuming 28 x 6ml = 1 per day/application.

to be honest there isnt a lot of info, probably is a scam but its worth a try i guess. i have took before pics so if anything does happen i'll post the results.

----------


## thechamp

The best treatments have tried  is propecia followed buy spectral dnc 4.5 percent is working wonders for me.

----------


## gutted

theyve published a bunch of videos on thier youtube channel 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgek...hannel&list=UL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apm_...feature=relmfu

----------


## new bubble

> theyve published a bunch of videos on thier youtube channel 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgek...hannel&list=UL
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apm_...feature=relmfu


 Anyone translate what they said to english

----------


## The Alchemist

> Anyone translate what they said to english


 Yes:

"this product is complete bullshit.  However, we are counting on the naivete and desperation of balding men to purchase our product in large quantities.  The profits of which will be used to purchase a villa on a small mediterranean island so that my family can vacation"

"please, look at me.  I'm wearing a suit.  How can you doubt anything i say?"

"we like to say 4&#37; growth, because it's a number that is impossible for a sucker.  No no, excuse me.  I mis-speak.   A user, to evaluate without sophisticated equipment.  Therefore they keep purchasing our product under the false impressions of efficacy that their desperations feed.  This in turn allows for revenue growth." 

"Now excuse me, i have some high end prostitutes coming over and i really need to comb my beautiful hair"

----------


## UK_

^^ Thats what I got too.

Doesnt look very "game-breaking" to me, as the producers had promised it would be. 

It's coming across as a new shampoo or conditioner as opposed to the great holy grail cure for hair loss.

What a leaking bag of horse piss.

----------


## UK_

So this stuff is available on Ebay.... EBAY?... lol forgive me but, wouldnt the cure for hair loss have a better distribution outlet than an online auction site?

*But fret not my fellow baldies!!  If Neogenic fails we have another of Vichys products to fall back on:*

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vichy-Dercos...90726793090%26


hahahahahahahaaa what a waste of money if you bought Neogenic lol ahahahahaaaa.

----------


## thechamp

Glad I didn't buy this :Smile:

----------


## Eldarion

Only one person is trying it at the moment, but 10 write it snake oil. Lol
Is it so hard to wait for reviews of other people if you can not afford to try it for yourself.
I think this product may be analogous to minoxidil.

----------


## elusive52

> ^^ Thats what I got too.
> 
> Doesnt look very "game-breaking" to me, as the producers had promised it would be. 
> 
> It's coming across as a new shampoo or conditioner as opposed to the great holy grail cure for hair loss.
> 
> What a leaking bag of horse piss.


 hey uk, you seem very bitter, take it easy man you'll have a heart attack...

if its bullshit i wasted my money so you guys can find out, then no one else will buy it and its over for them.

at least this way millions wont be buying it if it is a scam.

i dont see how you can be so sure it wont work until at least some have tried it, bit stupid that. if we all have that attitude to everything that comes out we will never find a solution.

if you cant afford it now, just wait until we get the results and you dont have to waste your money...relax!!!

ps. 1700 new hairs is a lot and i would easily be able to to notice that without any equipment.

----------


## gutted

> Only one person is trying it at the moment, but 10 write it snake oil. Lol
> Is it so hard to wait for reviews of other people if you can not afford to try it for yourself.
> I think this product may be analogous to minoxidil.


 i can just imagine, when this so called "cure" is released it too will be snake oil!!! lol

----------


## doke

Where is jcm are you still on trx2 and gutted how many weeks have you now been on neogenic as you know many are hoping for great things.

----------


## gutted

> Where is jcm are you still on trx2 and gutted how many weeks have you now been on neogenic as you know many are hoping for great things.


 since the 14th sept.
im not the one to tell you whethere this grows hair or not, i recentley shedded some hairs and im expecting them to grow back, so i cant with 100% certainty say its from neogenic.

someone using it *alone* is a more reliable source.

----------


## the_dude78

> hey uk, you seem very bitter, take it easy man you'll have a heart attack...
> 
> if its bullshit i wasted my money so you guys can find out, then no one else will buy it and its over for them.
> 
> at least this way millions wont be buying it if it is a scam.
> 
> i dont see how you can be so sure it wont work until at least some have tried it, bit stupid that. if we all have that attitude to everything that comes out we will never find a solution.
> 
> if you cant afford it now, just wait until we get the results and you dont have to waste your money...relax!!!
> ...


 I'm glad someone is willing to test this, and I'm looking forward to hearing about your, hopefully good, results. Before and after pictures would ofc be great  :Smile:

----------


## the_dude78

> since the 14th sept.
> im not the one to tell you whethere this grows hair or not, i recentley shedded some hairs and im expecting them to grow back, so i cant with 100% certainty say its from neogenic.
> 
> someone using it *alone* is a more reliable source.


 Someone whith stabilized hair loss would also be good.

----------


## Artista

I too APPRECIATE those of you who would ,not only spend the time and money to test this product,  but to ALSO share with the rest of us their outcomes.   You members truly are  BROTHERS here and should not be demeaned. (if that is the case) 
Thanks guys.

----------


## elusive52

> Someone whith stabilized hair loss would also be good.


 hi i am actually using propecia aswell. all that has ever done is stabilize the loss, never really grown any back.

it will be very easy for me to tell if this neogenic does what they claim.

----------


## garethbale

> I too APPRECIATE those of you who would ,not only spend the time and money to test this product,  but to ALSO share with the rest of us their outcomes.   You members truly are  BROTHERS here and should not be demeaned. (if that is the case) 
> Thanks guys.


 

cue cheesy music :Big Grin:

----------


## vinnytr

> hey uk, you seem very bitter, take it easy man you'll have a heart attack...
> 
> if its bullshit i wasted my money so you guys can find out, then no one else will buy it and its over for them.
> 
> at least this way millions wont be buying it if it is a scam.
> 
> i dont see how you can be so sure it wont work until at least some have tried it, bit stupid that. if we all have that attitude to everything that comes out we will never find a solution.
> 
> if you cant afford it now, just wait until we get the results and you dont have to waste your money...relax!!!
> ...


 
+1 

Please tell us what your results will be after 3 months time . 

How old are you ?
What NW are you ? 
Are you using anything else ? 

I have started using revivogen 1 month ago and although since then i have been reading its total crap from a few sources that apparently used it for months i am still going to use it for 3 months to see if there is any difference where as If i knock it now i will never find out if it works or not.

----------


## doke

> I too APPRECIATE those of you who would ,not only spend the time and money to test this product,  but to ALSO share with the rest of us their outcomes.   You members truly are  BROTHERS here and should not be demeaned. (if that is the case) 
> Thanks guys.


 Ha ha ha anyone remember uk boyband brother beyond hahaha

----------


## UK_

To all those people coming on this thread praising those who are "testing" this product:

Have you ever thought to yourselves for a moment "why on earth am I waiting on a complete stranger in a forum to see if a cosmetic treatment works?" - I mean think about it - if this product truly worked - they'd have a complete charade of evidence of efficacy behind them - unsurprisingly like every other garbage product that has ever been released THEY DONT!

To treat hair loss - you need a component along the lines of cell therapy, to be able to not only grow hair on your head but also on your feet and hands too if the therapy were to be applied there - not some dodgy foreign topical sold on ebay.

----------


## UK_

> *hi i am actually using propecia aswell*. all that has ever done is stabilize the loss, never really grown any back.
> 
> it will be very easy for me to tell if this neogenic does what they claim.


 So your results about Neogenic are completely worthless lol - even if you get efficacy nobody here can tie it to Neogenic.

This is why I stated there should have been a controlled study - unfortunately the company didnt need to - they already knew how stupid and gullible the public would be due to their previous success with Aminexil, they spend the money on marketing (conferences and cheap ads) instead of proper R&D, then released a cosmetic, beautiful!

You call me bitter - but take a look at the title of this website - there's a reason it's called that.

I might be bitter - but id rather be bitter than stand in line with the faecal laborious irritatingly stupid dross that is the general public, that cant seem to stop getting themselves into unimaginable amounts of personal debt, buying worthless consumables for the sake of it, living a lifestyle beyond their means & falling perpetually for the hyped up marketing of these lying corporations.

----------


## elusive52

> So your results about Neogenic are completely worthless lol - even if you get efficacy nobody here can tie it to Neogenic.
> 
> This is why I stated there should have been a controlled study - unfortunately the company didnt need to - they already knew how stupid and gullible the public would be due to their previous success with Aminexil, they spend the money on marketing (conferences and cheap ads) instead of proper R&D, then released a cosmetic, beautiful!
> 
> You call me bitter - but take a look at the title of this website - there's a reason it's called that.
> 
> I might be bitter - but id rather be bitter than stand in line with the faecal laborious irritatingly stupid dross that is the general public, that cant seem to stop getting themselves into unimaginable amounts of personal debt, buying worthless consumables for the sake of it, living a lifestyle beyond their means & falling perpetually for the hyped up marketing of these lying corporations.


 hi, i've been taking propecia for years, all its ever done is stop/stabilise the hair loss.

if neogenic works (and by works i mean grows average 1700 'NEW' hairs as they claim) then i will be able to tell with ease. and if the same happened for others then we know its for real.

also you probably say they are fake but the company (vichy) has released photographic evidence of this product growing new hair. if its all bullshit we will find out sooner rather than later.

other people on here will know better than me but im sure the reason they dont carry out all the studies as you say is because they are releasing this as a cosmetic product not a certified drug that has to get fda approval etc saving millions and a whole lot of time. maybe im wrong about this, others can put me right...

and of course we need a wide selection of people on here to try it, that are not on propecia, are on it, on minox, etc etc etc.

if i do get any positive results i will stop propecia immediately and just use this.

as for people getting into debt...this product only needs to be used for 3 months, if there are no results after this time period it will be easy to call it a fake. so i will only of lost &#163;210, not really that much is it?

cheers.

----------


## youngin

I'm a NW6 and only using Retin-A which I can quit any time. I'll do a controlled study if someone buys it for me  :Smile:  lol

----------


## UK_

> I'm a NW6 and only using Retin-A which I can quit any time. I'll do a controlled study if someone buys it for me  lol


 There's no need to - Retin A will not create the biological miracle of regenerating fully functional hair follicles, you might end up with a less wrinkly head as you age though.

And money isnt the issue - especially when the producers are a multinational corporation - the very fact that said company has not conducted proper clinical investigation rings alarm bells - they did the same for Aminexil in 2003, that turned out well.

----------


## UK_

> hi, i've been taking propecia for years, all its ever done is stop/stabilise the hair loss.
> 
> *(1) if neogenic works (and by works i mean grows average 1700 'NEW' hairs as they claim) then i will be able to tell with ease. and if the same happened for others then we know its for real.*
> 
> also you probably say they are fake but the company (vichy) has released photographic evidence of this product growing new hair. if its all bullshit we will find out sooner rather than later.
> 
> other people on here will know better than me but im sure * (2) the reason they dont carry out all the studies as you say is because they are releasing this as a cosmetic product not a certified drug that has to get fda approval etc saving millions and a whole lot of time.* maybe im wrong about this, others can put me right...
> 
> and of course we need a wide selection of people on here to try it, that are not on propecia, are on it, on minox, etc etc etc.
> ...


 *(1)* I find it beyond hilarious that you even toy with the belief that this product could achieve such a feat - how on earth would such a biological mechanism even work?  You're talking of a topical COSMETIC treatment being able to perform something the most sophisticated labs across the globe cant even get their heads around.

*(2)* They're not SAVING MILLIONS by not going through the FDA route _*face palm*_ Jesus Christ man you know what?  Go ahead, buy it.

----------


## youngin

> There's no need to - Retin A will not create the biological miracle of regenerating fully functional hair follicles, you might end up with a less wrinkly head as you age though.
> 
> And money isnt the issue - especially when the producers are a multinational corporation - the very fact that said company has not conducted proper clinical investigation rings alarm bells - they did the same for Aminexil in 2003, that turned out well.


 On the contrary, Retin-A has worked quite well to an extent. Weather its thickening vellus hairs or grown new hairs.. I don't know. But its doing something. Studies have already shown that it works to an extent and boosts minox. I have done my research. I still may try Neogenic since I have a very nice camera and keep a shaved head, it would be easy to see any regrowth.

----------


## gutted

> On the contrary, Retin-A has worked quite well to an extent. Weather its thickening vellus hairs or grown new hairs.. I don't know. But its doing something. Studies have already shown that it works to an extent and boosts minox. I have done my research. I still may try Neogenic since I have a very nice camera and keep a shaved head, it would be easy to see any regrowth.


 nw6's are probably the last people that would respond to neogenic.

----------


## youngin

> nw6's are probably the last people that would respond to neogenic.


 I still have alot of vellus hairs. If it doesnt turn vellus hairs into terminal then what use is it to any NW.

----------


## UK_

> On the contrary, Retin-A has worked quite well *to an extent.* (_? - either it works or it doesnt_) Weather its thickening vellus hairs or grown new hairs.. I don't know. But its doing something. Studies have already shown that it works to an extent and boosts minox. I have done my research. I still may try Neogenic since I have a very nice camera and keep a shaved head, it would be easy to see any regrowth.


 What studies?  Can you cite them?

There are lists of studies that can even be dated back to the 70's that show a positive impact on hair loss - none of them however are released because they're truly not effective in the sense that we need them to be.  They're (as you rightfully put it) _effective to an extent_ - but if that extent is growing 1 or 2 vellus hairs over a period of 6 months, sorry that's not a viable treatment worthy of my time or money.

----------


## elusive52

> *(1)* I find it beyond hilarious that you even toy with the belief that this product could achieve such a feat - how on earth would such a biological mechanism even work?  You're talking of a topical COSMETIC treatment being able to perform something the most sophisticated labs across the globe cant even get their heads around.
> 
> *(2)* They're not SAVING MILLIONS by not going through the FDA route _*face palm*_ Jesus Christ man you know what?  Go ahead, buy it.


 1. i dont get your logic. We are talking about loreal here, the worlds largest cosmetic company, thats who owns vichy. they do have access to highly sophisticated labs and years of research.

i said they 'RELEASE' it as a cosmetic product to sidestep all the incredibly difficult obstacles that an fda approved 'DRUG' (like propecia) needs to go through.

2. do you know how much money it takes to conduct clinical phase 1,2,3 trials? millions... and the time. look at histogen...

----------


## gutted

> I still have alot of vellus hairs. If it doesnt turn vellus hairs into terminal then what use is it to any NW.


 are you on any other treatments apart from retin A?

----------


## Erick

Gutted you seem to be extremely active in this thread

----------


## doke

I think gutted is like most here we have seen hype about a product how ever small and need to grasp at straws,ive been there done it and as we or the company has no proof of regrowth on a large amount of mpb human trials its very frustrating.
We all hope gutted gets success and even if he does will it work on us im thinking that the company should have some proof of regrowth before selling this product at a higher price than minoxidil and propecia which at least have thousends of trials on human mpb.

----------


## gutted

> Gutted you seem to be extremely active in this thread


 i think you'll see im extremeley active in the whole forum.

----------


## vinnytr

> Gutted you seem to be extremely active in this thread


 What exactly is that supposed to mean ?  :Confused:

----------


## UK_

> 1. i dont get your logic. We are talking about loreal here, the worlds largest cosmetic company, thats who owns vichy. they do have access to highly sophisticated labs and years of research.
> 
> i said they 'RELEASE' it as a cosmetic product to sidestep all the incredibly difficult obstacles that an fda approved 'DRUG' (like propecia) needs to go through.
> 
> 2. do you know how much money it takes to conduct clinical phase 1,2,3 trials? millions... and the time. look at histogen...


 Dont get my logic?  Well how else can I get through to you?  Concentrate on the following statement for a moment, use every brain cell you have if that's what it takes:

Loreal being a large and powerful company has nothing to do with the efficacy of the products they produce, because, if you rewind back to 2003, Loreal (your almighty powerful corporation) released a product called AMINEXIL - which was intended to increase hair growth by 6&#37; - THAT FAILED.  So being a large company has nothing to do with it, you say they have research centres, IF THEY HAVE RESEARCH CENTRES, WHERE ON EARTH IS THE GOD DAMN RESEARCH?!?!?!

The very fact that Loreal mitigated clinical trials DOES NOT automatically entitle the belief that they did so to avoid regulatory cost pressures and time - like you said, Loreal are a powerful corporation, I am sure if Histogen can afford to trial gene therapy loreal can afford to trial their product.  The reason they mitigated clinical trials is because this is a COSMETIC product with ZERO CLINICAL DATA FOR EFFICACY - *if you want to be stupid enough to believe a cosmetic product with zero evidence will grow you hair, GO AHEAD, BUY A BOAT LOAD!*

*My challenge to you:

This is all I have to say on the matter - if you cant provide me any evidence of efficacy for this product in your next post, do not reply.*

----------


## UK_

> i think you'll see im extremeley active in the whole forum.


 That means nothing - there are a fair few who have been visiting constantly and posting actively on these threads, means nothing.

----------


## gutted

> That means nothing - there are a fair few who have been visiting constantly and posting actively on these threads, means nothing.


 yeah i agree with you, i dont understand what erick was implying??

----------


## elusive52

> Dont get my logic?  Well how else can I get through to you?  Concentrate on the following statement for a moment, use every brain cell you have if that's what it takes:
> 
> Loreal being a large and powerful company has nothing to do with the efficacy of the products they produce, because, if you rewind back to 2003, Loreal (your almighty powerful corporation) released a product called AMINEXIL - which was intended to increase hair growth by 6% - THAT FAILED.  So being a large company has nothing to do with it, you say they have research centres, IF THEY HAVE RESEARCH CENTRES, WHERE ON EARTH IS THE GOD DAMN RESEARCH?!?!?!
> 
> The very fact that Loreal mitigated clinical trials DOES NOT automatically entitle the belief that they did so to avoid regulatory cost pressures and time - like you said, Loreal are a powerful corporation, I am sure if Histogen can afford to trial gene therapy loreal can afford to trial their product.  The reason they mitigated clinical trials is because this is a COSMETIC product with ZERO CLINICAL DATA FOR EFFICACY - *if you want to be stupid enough to believe a cosmetic product with zero evidence will grow you hair, GO AHEAD, BUY A BOAT LOAD!*
> 
> *My challenge to you:
> 
> This is all I have to say on the matter - if you cant provide me any evidence of efficacy for this product in your next post, do not reply.*


 man i think your manners fell out with your hair!!! you have a very bad attitude, change it...theres a good little boy. would you like me to refer you to a good anger management class?

your challenge is not for me to answer, you need to contact vichy for that. 

and you keep changing the argument. i simply argued that they do have sophisticated labs and years of research, its not like they are a nobody company.

they have provided pics clearly showing *new hair growth*. now if a huge corporation got caught *faking pics* then it would be *hugely* damaging for them so i dont believe they would do that. do you think they *FAKED* the pic?

why havent they released research? maybe they will release it, who knows. if you see their marketing plan, it is a stage by stage process, neogenic is not even listed on their site yet.

i think they are slowly releasing it to gauge the feedback. but as i said previously, i dont know, its all conjecture.

what you need to realise is, i as you have no idea whether or not this is full of shit but i think its worth a try. if you dont, just dont buy it....simple.

and calm down ffs...(you know anger and stress is a major cause of hair loss LOL...)

----------


## BaldinLikeBaldwin

> man i think your manners fell out with your hair!!! you have a very bad attitude, change it...theres a good little boy. would you like me to refer you to a good anger management class?


 you should've just stopped there and realised not to waste any time on these bitter old bald garbage man trolls

----------


## elusive52

> you should've just stopped there and realised not to waste any time on these bitter old bald garbage man trolls


 LOL...

i think you may be right!

----------


## Pate

> they have provided pics clearly showing *new hair growth*. now if a huge corporation got caught *faking pics* then it would be *hugely* damaging for them so i dont believe they would do that. do you think they *FAKED* the pic?
> 
> why havent they released research? maybe they will release it, who knows. if you see their marketing plan, it is a stage by stage process, neogenic is not even listed on their site yet.


 Where are these pics? I have been looking for some but haven't found any, even google isn't proving much help.

I agree though, I doubt L'Oreal would outright fake pics. You do have to remember though that those are the BEST pics, not the typical pics.

I think they have actually released research too - scientific papers on the mechanism etc. I remember reading about it somewhere.

----------


## Dazza

> Where are these pics? I have been looking for some but haven't found any, even google isn't proving much help.
> 
> I agree though, I doubt L'Oreal would outright fake pics. You do have to remember though that those are the BEST pics, not the typical pics.
> 
> I think they have actually released research too - scientific papers on the mechanism etc. I remember reading about it somewhere.


 Think the picture he was referring to was posted in this thread, try page 82.

----------


## UK_

> man i think your manners fell out with your hair!!! you have a very bad attitude, change it...theres a good little boy. would you like me to refer you to a good anger management class?
> 
> your challenge is not for me to answer, you need to contact vichy for that. 
> 
> and you keep changing the argument. i simply argued that they do have sophisticated labs and years of research, its not like they are a nobody company.
> 
> they have provided pics clearly showing new hair growth. now if a huge corporation got caught faking pics then it would be hugely damaging for them so i dont believe they would do that. do you think they FAKED the pic?
> 
> why havent they released research? maybe they will release it, who knows. if you see their marketing plan, it is a stage by stage process, neogenic is not even listed on their site yet.
> ...


 Is that all you have?  You're going to refer me to page 82 of this thread and tell me these 2 - 3 hairs are proof of a hair loss cure?

*Where are the actual macrophotographic assessments?  What is the hair count? lol 3 hairs? LOL - so after 3 months a NW5 earns himself 3 hairs?  A bit different to the quoted 1700 they initially stated right? - I mean, im trying to understand what type of brain would be stupid enough not to ****ing see this?*

You say that a company as large as Loreal would not fabricate results - oh what a bumbling moronic fool you truly are, corporations have proven over the past few years to be the biggest liars in industry - only the retarded sheep-like dross general public which constitutes mostly people like you continuously fall for their bullshit, from banks to hair loss it's all about money you ****ing idiot.

Let me take you back to 2003, if you believe corporations are incapable of lying then how do you explain this:

http://www.divineskin.com/spectraldnc/aminexil.asp

Study those graphs, because according to Loreal (Vichy), the supreme corporation, Aminexil was the ****ing holy grail.

There's no need for you to laugh at my posts, we all know who's going to be the joke by December when Neogenic fades into the darkness with the rest of the bullshit products released by your almighty "Vichy" corporation.

P.S.  if Loreal truly had the cure to hair loss you'd think they'd plaster it over the world and release it under LOREAL, I mean think about it, if YOU found the cure to hair loss wouldnt you want your name out there? LOL.

----------


## UK_

> Where are these pics? I have been looking for some but haven't found any, even google isn't proving much help.
> 
> I agree though, I doubt L'Oreal would outright fake pics. You do have to remember though that those are the BEST pics, not the typical pics.
> 
> I think they have actually released research too - scientific papers on the mechanism etc. I remember reading about it somewhere.


 *"Scientific papers" were also released for the product Aminexil, it means nothing.

There were no clinical trails so there is no way of telling how safe/effective the product is, although I feel it is very safe yet highly ineffective as no topical lotion is going to treat hair loss to the standards most Norwoods beyond NW2 require, this requires cell therapy, we're attempting to preserve and/or regrow organs here - once people on this thread get that concept into their ****ing heads perhaps we can have more intelligible discussions on the matter.*

----------


## UK_

> you should've just stopped there and realised not to waste any time on these bitter old bald garbage man trolls


 I'm not asking you to listen to me, this is all a charade for me to understand the inexcusably stupid consumption patterns of the general public, granted I should have gone for a wider sample.

----------


## elusive52

> Is that all you have?  You're going to refer me to page 82 of this thread and tell me these 2 - 3 hairs are proof of a hair loss cure?
> 
> *Where are the actual macrophotographic assessments?  What is the hair count? lol 3 hairs? LOL - so after 3 months a NW5 earns himself 3 hairs?  A bit different to the quoted 1700 they initially stated right? - I mean, im trying to understand what type of brain would be stupid enough not to ****ing see this?*
> 
> You say that a company as large as Loreal would not fabricate results - oh what a bumbling moronic fool you truly are, corporations have proven over the past few years to be the biggest liars in industry - only the retarded sheep-like dross general public which constitutes mostly people like you continuously fall for their bullshit, from banks to hair loss it's all about money you ****ing idiot.
> 
> Let me take you back to 2003, if you believe corporations are incapable of lying then how do you explain this:
> 
> http://www.divineskin.com/spectraldnc/aminexil.asp
> ...


 you obviously have some very serious issues, so i think its best to leave you to stew in your bitterness and anger and leave it there.

cheers.

----------


## Conpecia

I'm with UK here. Just look at the marketing alone. If this was a potential cure or even a somewhat effective treatment it would be sold by L'Oreal proper and not Vichy, there would be detailed photographic evidence, and FAR more fanfare. It would be all over the Internet. Google Histogen, a treatment we may not see for 5 more years, then google Neogenic, a treatment that is actually out. Seems like Histogen is more popular; the only people talking about Neogenic are the hairloss forums like us. That makes no sense if a cosmetic giant like L'Oreal has actually manufactured a decent treatment for mpb. And like UK, I'm also having a hard time understanding why there's this "Well, they haven't given us any reason to believe it will work, but nevertheless, it COULD work, so let's all buy it" mentality. Are you guys awake? Anybody looking at anything else on this forum? A ton of people just got ripped off buying fake equol from Folexen, a ton of people bought into Replicel's exaggerations back in March, invested, and lost money. For the love of God, this SAME COMPANY released a product claiming the SAME THING and it ended up totally bombing. I just don't get it. The skepticism is far too low. I'll be glad to be proven wrong and I will even buy the stuff myself if it works, but Jesus no way do I think it will, and no way in hell would I defend it at this point.

----------


## clandestine

Basically, fuᴄk Neogenic and fuᴄk L'Oreal until they can show us results i.e. macrophotography. I'm with UK_ and Conpecia on this one.

----------


## Erick

I ordered Neogenic and should get it either today or monday. I was thinking about also buying Trx2 but I will hold that for a while, so if I do get results it will  due to Neogenic since fin has been basically done all it can.

----------


## thechamp

So gutted any sign of hair loss stopping?

----------


## gutted

> So gutted any sign of hair loss stopping?


 my hair loss stopped quite some time ago champ  :Smile:  i dont attribute it to neogenic.

----------


## Pate

> [B]"Scientific papers" were also released for the product Aminexil, it means nothing.


 Well no, it means something. It means there is a valid scientific mechanism behind the product that probably does have some (minor) effect on stimulating hair growth. Aminexil did too.

It just doesn't mean that mechanism is going to have the power to do anything more than than piss in the wind against the mechanism that causes MPB. Because the MPB mechanism is extremely powerful.

I don't think Neogenic will prove any more successful than minox and it'll probably prove less so. All these treatments - minox, aminexil, stemoxydine, capsaicin, vitamin E, procyanidins... they probably do have some minor effect, and that's the reason they are showing positive results in vitro. As in, they have a positive effect on the growth of hair cells in a test tube. 

The problem is when you progress from in vitro to a man with MPB, this small effect on hair cells is totally swamped by the mechanism of MPB, which just destroys everything in its path.

----------


## Pate

> Think the picture he was referring to was posted in this thread, try page 82.


 Thanks Dazza. There's so much crap posted on these forums sometimes it's hard to see everything!

I'm undecided about the pic. Simply having a couple of new hairs doesn't mean anything because natural variation means hair count in a small area will wax and wane. But a couple of those other hairs look thicker and darker as well.

To be honest even if these results are genuine they are not ground-breaking and I'm not going to spend basically $100/month on it to get a few extra hairs. I will not be trying this product.

Also interesting how in the post below that there was the "forum infiltration" plan. I guess we need to keep an eye out for this, because they will come to BTT for sure.

----------


## LPSboxing

> Well no, it means something. It means there is a valid scientific mechanism behind the product that probably does have some (minor) effect on stimulating hair growth. Aminexil did too.
> 
> It just doesn't mean that mechanism is going to have the power to do anything more than than piss in the wind against the mechanism that causes MPB. Because the MPB mechanism is extremely powerful.
> 
> I don't think Neogenic will prove any more successful than minox and it'll probably prove less so. All these treatments - minox, aminexil, stemoxydine, capsaicin, vitamin E, procyanidins... they probably do have some minor effect, and that's the reason they are showing positive results in vitro. As in, they have a positive effect on the growth of hair cells in a test tube. 
> 
> The problem is when you progress from in vitro to a man with MPB, this small effect on hair cells is totally swamped by the mechanism of MPB, which just destroys everything in its path.


 hey wait a second, this post actually makes sense! heresy!

it's hard to find posts that make sense on a balding forums nowadays

----------


## UK_

> Well no, it means something. It means there is a valid scientific mechanism behind the product that probably does have some (minor) effect on stimulating hair growth. Aminexil did too.
> 
> It just doesn't mean that mechanism is going to have the power to do anything more than than piss in the wind against the mechanism that causes MPB. Because the MPB mechanism is extremely powerful.
> 
> I don't think Neogenic will prove any more successful than minox and it'll probably prove less so. All these treatments - minox, aminexil, stemoxydine, capsaicin, vitamin E, procyanidins... they probably do have some minor effect, and that's the reason they are showing positive results in vitro. As in, they have a positive effect on the growth of hair cells in a test tube. 
> 
> The problem is when you progress from in vitro to a man with MPB, this small effect on hair cells is totally swamped by the mechanism of MPB, which just destroys everything in its path.


 What about the rest of my quote?  I stated that _"no topical lotion is going to treat hair loss to the standards most Norwoods beyond NW2 require"_, I appreciate there may be "science" behind a product, hell, there's science behind a large quantity of drugs/treatments that have shown anecdotal evidence of hair growth stemming way back to the 1970's, but it means nothing.

What scientific papers were released?  I havent been able to have a read of these - and people on other forums are laughing at everyone here for giving Neogenic so much attention - I usually dont respond to these quasi-scientific hyper-commercial releases because for the past 20 years every last one of them (accompanied with copious "scientific papers") has been an utter failure, this will be no different.

People call me bitter - but IMO be*lie*f is always a fools game.

----------


## Sogeking

> What about the rest of my quote?  *I stated that "no topical lotion is going to treat hair loss to the standards most Norwoods beyond NW2 require", I appreciate there may be "science" behind a product, hell, there's science behind a large quantity of drugs/treatments that have shown anecdotal evidence of hair growth stemming way back to the 1970's, but it means nothing.*
> 
> What scientific papers were released?  I havent been able to have a read of these - and people on other forums are laughing at everyone here for giving Neogenic so much attention - I usually dont respond to these quasi-scientific hyper-commercial releases because for the past 20 years every last one of them (accompanied with copious "scientific papers") has been an utter failure, this will be no different.
> 
> People call me bitter - but IMO be*lie*f is always a fools game.


 @bold part
Well it is basically what Pate said. He stated that in best case scenario if the science behind it is real it will have some minor effect. Minor effect means it won't put a dent to the missing are of hair on NW 1 let alone on NW 2. At best this might slow down the process due to the less blood supply meaning less DHT attacking the hair follicels but in a way the same can be said about Nizoral. And despite of it all I haven't heard anything about Nizoral growing some hair. Howeve I do think it can to a minor extent slow it down.

So paying 100$ dollars for a product that MIGHT slow down hairloss is simply not enough for me.

In short I concurr with both you and Pate. Just wanted to clarify Pates opinion hope I was right.

----------


## Pate

> What about the rest of my quote?  I stated that _"no topical lotion is going to treat hair loss to the standards most Norwoods beyond NW2 require"_,


 If you want an argument you're going to have to choose another subject.  :Wink: 

I agree, for the reasons I said in my post - as Sogeking pointed out. The only topical lotion that would stand a chance is one that targets the actual mechanism of MPB, not one that just enhances hair growth. We're still many years away from that, although the progress made in the last couple of years on the PGD2 front is pretty impressive IMO.




> What scientific papers were released?  I havent been able to have a read of these - and people on other forums are laughing at everyone here for giving Neogenic so much attention


 To be honest I don't remember, because I wasn't terribly interested. I don't even remember whether they were peer-reviewed journal papers or just research papers. I've never thought Neogenic will grow much hair, especially on men. I just remember coming across some research from these guys on the stemoxydine mechanism.  

I'd give it a try, maybe, if it was the price of generic minox. But for nearly $100/month to grow 4% density, no way. I need 200% density increase, not 4%.

----------


## Erick

I had my package arrive yesterday, there's only one problem the damn mail doesn't deliver to your house. You have to go to the damn post office to pick it up. If I knew that was the case I probably wouldn't have ordered it.

----------


## the_dude78

> I had my package arrive yesterday, there's only one problem the damn mail doesn't deliver to your house. You have to go to the damn post office to pick it up. If I knew that was the case I probably wouldn't have ordered it.


 wtf?!

Do they have a giant t-rex guarding the entrance to the post office??

----------


## Erick

> wtf?!
> 
> Do they have a giant t-rex guarding the entrance to the post office??


 No, they have ghosts

----------


## the_dude78

> No, they have ghosts


 Makes sense then. Good luck, you'll need it.

----------


## ammin

Hi Gutted,

Can you please list all the ingredients in Neogenic? What are your thoughts on the long term effects of stemoxydine? sides and otherwise

Thanks!


My combo seems to be really working BTW...but then I didnt have aggressive MPB to begin with. Secondly, I dont know what specific product or device to attribute my significant but short term sucess to. 

I wouldnt yet call MSM and Vit C a part of my combo as I took 5 days off it when I went abroad for a company visit

----------


## gutted

> Hi Gutted,
> 
> Can you please list all the ingredients in Neogenic? What are your thoughts on the long term effects of stemoxydine? sides and otherwise
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> My combo seems to be really working BTW...but then I didnt have aggressive MPB to begin with. Secondly, I dont know what specific product or device to attribute my significant but short term sucess to. 
> 
> I wouldnt yet call MSM and Vit C a part of my combo as I took 5 days off it when I went abroad for a company visit


 
ive stopped applying neogenic in the frontal region, i only apply a bit to the hairline now so the whole box should last a few months. Im confident my combo works, hence why i decided to stop neogenic, but just to see if it does regrow hair i will continue applying to the hairline.

as for the ingredients i will look on the box and list tomorow. I dont think you can get any sides from it.

a few days off it wont hurt, the max ive been off the combo is 7 days before i noticed effects on my scalp.

----------


## thechamp

So gutted this product is a scam?

----------


## BigThinker

> No, they have ghosts


 Who you gonna call?

----------


## the_dude78

> ive stopped applying neogenic in the frontal region, i only apply a bit to the hairline now so the whole box should last a few months. Im confident my combo works, hence why i decided to stop neogenic, but just to see if it does regrow hair i will continue applying to the hairline.
> 
> as for the ingredients i will look on the box and list tomorow. I dont think you can get any sides from it.
> 
> a few days off it wont hurt, the max ive been off the combo is 7 days before i noticed effects on my scalp.


 I think people misunderstand "regrow hair" in this context. Neogenic will not regrow hair that you have lost, It will only wake up dormant hair prematurely so that more follicles are active at the same time, and therefore your hair will seem more dense. It's just syncing up your follicles.

Or am I the one who got it wrong?

----------


## gutted

> I think people misunderstand "regrow hair" in this context. Neogenic will not regrow hair that you have lost, *It will only wake up dormant hair prematurely so that more follicles are active at the same time*, and therefore your hair will seem more dense. It's just syncing up your follicles.
> 
> Or am I the one who got it wrong?


 this is what i thought too.

----------


## gutted

> So gutted this product is a scam?


 ive only been using for 3 weeks. I really cant be bothered with topicals! they're so much of a hassle for me. And im pretty confident the combo im on alone is far better than this neogenic.

I will continue to apply in the mid hairline area just to see what this does if anything.

----------


## new bubble

> ive only been using for 3 weeks. I really cant be bothered with topicals! they're so much of a hassle for me. And im pretty confident the combo im on alone is far better than this neogenic.
> 
> I will continue to apply in the mid hairline area just to see what this does if anything.


 Gutted: how long have you been on the combo

----------


## gutted

> Gutted: how long have you been on the combo


 18 months to 2 years. Cant remember exactly.

----------


## GuyFromUK

Am I the only one who can see this here, or can everyone else not realise that the BaldTruthTalk forum is being completely hijacked by people working for TRX2. And now they are hijacking this thread on Neogenic.

First of all they started a TRX2 thread a while back and created profiles of lots of different people supposedly taking TRX2. They then get a long winded discussion going on their product. To make the fake discussion seem balanced and believable some of them are supposedly against TRX2, some are in favour of it, but most likely in a year or two from now their thread will come to the conclusion that TRX2 miraculously works. I imagine is how professional forum infiltration is carried out. 

If you don't believe me then ask yourself this, 1) Why were so many of the baldtruth accounts of the "different" people on the TRX2 thread created in the same month as each other, which coincidentally was the month TRX2 was launched, 2) Why did another hairloss forum (which I won't name here) ban some of their users who it turned out had the same IP address as each other and who were both constantly discussing TRX2. 3) Why do such a disproportionately and suspiciously large number of people visit the TRX2 thread (far more than threads on proven products like propecia/minoxidil or other interesting future treatments like Histogen, Replicel, Aderans etc) - is it because so much of the traffic is coming from their marketing staff generating this fake discussion.

What gets even more annoying is when the staff at TRX2 realised that their TRX2 thread on this forum was getting boring and stale they then created another thread with some new rubbish idea that by mixing TRX2 with Vitamin C it will supposedly be the cure to hairloss. Its like they had this brainwave that people weren't buying into TRX2 as much as they wanted so lets create more fake users on the forum and make this "new discovery" that vitamin c needs to be mixed with TRX2 for it to work. They are doing everything they can to not let the TRX2 discussion come to an end.

Now that Neogenic from L'oreal has come along TRX2 are worried that this new product is going to steal some of their share of the hairloss marketplace so the same users have now infiltrated this forum and during the next few months will probably conclude that Neogenic doesn't work. They are scared of Neogenic hence the negative articles they are writing about it on their website: http://www.trx2.com/community/loreal...and-a-warning/

They even use Spencer's good name on their website to try and discredit TRX2.

I know that Spencer doesn't have much faith in Neogenic but they shouldn't be allowed to use his name to try and discredit Neogenic and essentially validate their own product.

I personally don't hold out much hope for Neogenic but it does annoy me that the people on this forum who are supposedly testing the product are in my opinion working for TRX2 and aren't even taking it. It is sad that hairloss sufferers are being taken for fools by these negative marketing tactics. 

My advice for anyone is don't risk wasting your money on Neogenic until more proof has come out that it works. And definitely don't waste any money on TRX2, they are in my opinion a company which utilises completely immoral marketing tactics. If their product really worked they wouldn't need to use such aggressive marketing. It is also so annoying that they think because they went to Oxford University that this somehow means their product works, hundreds of thousands of people around the world have been to Oxford University it doesn't mean they hold the clue to hairless. I am ashamed to be from the same country as these people.

I really wish the folks at the BaldTruthTalk would delete the TRX2 discussions and have a purge of all the potentially dodgy forum users. They are destroying the forum for everyone else and make me not want to come back here again.

Sorry for this negative post but this really annoys me. I would bet my house that I am not wrong on TRX2 staff infiltrating the 2 TRX2 threads and this Neogenic thread.

----------


## gutted

im no trx2 staff...

forum infiltration is part of loreals agenda, if anything you should be more concerned with that. If you want to try neogenic out, why not just buy it yourself and try it out rather than waiting on other peoples results. 

i will post a picture of the neogenic box along with my user id to actually show i bought and use it.

----------


## gutted

there you go.

----------


## GuyFromUK

The fact that you so quickly rush to defend yourself (when there are many posters on this forum I could have been referring to) and post photos within an hour of me making my post makes me even more suspicious. I am not doubting you own a bottle of Neogenic but why defend yourself so quickly, that is just weird. And why do you go and put Neogenic down in your post when you are taking their product. TRX2 are going to war with Neogenic and this forum is the TRX2 marketing ground.

I don't believe anything I read in this forum any more. It's a shame.

----------


## gutted

> The fact that you so quickly rush to defend yourself (when there are many posters on this forum I could have been referring to) and post photos within an hour of me making my post makes me even more suspicious. I am not doubting you own a bottle of Neogenic but why defend yourself so quickly, that is just weird. And why do you go and put Neogenic down in your post when you are taking their product. TRX2 are going to war with Neogenic and this forum is the TRX2 marketing ground.
> 
> I don't believe anything I read in this forum any more. It's a shame.


 Well the post is clearley aimed at me...Im the one who started the trx2 and msm and vit c thread. 
If you read the thread you would see in no way do i tell people to buy trx2, and advise the trx2 ingredients along with msm/vitc is enough do you think trx2 would advise people to do this? 

Im a *REAL* user not no BS'er.

Join the club, I learnt to NOT believe what i read on forums eons ago, and make my own mind up rather than follow forum consensus.

----------


## Jcm800

If anyone should be under suspicion on the trx thread I'd say it's ulanude lol

----------


## GuyFromUK

Of course TRX2 are happy for people to buy Vitamin C if it means they buy their product.

My opinion is TRX2 is a scam, they are completely hijacking this forum and enough is enough.

In the last year or two I have become a huge fan of the Bald Truth radio show and I have viewed these forums regularly. One thing which I like about the Bald Truth Show is that Spencer says that his business interests are built up around educating the consumer with impartial information on hairloss products and filtering out all the "bullshit" as he calls it. I really respect this from Spencer however I think enough is enough with TRX2 on this forum. The forum has now become a marketing playground for TRX2 and surely the staff at the Bald Truth must realise this.

I think its time for the staff at the BaldTruth to show that they are serious about filtering out all the "bullshit" by deleting once and for all the discussions on TRX2. The BaldTruth's philosophy is to get rid of all the bullshit and conartists from the hair loss industry which is a great philosophy and its why the show is so successful, however this forum is doing the exact opposite and is creating a marketing outlet for scammers. This forum is possibly making TRX2 huge amounts of money from new customers who hear about it for the first time on this forum (customers who don't even post on the forum who we don't know about).

I appreciate the Bald Truth might allow these threads on TRX2 because it brings large amounts of traffic to their website, however these TRX2 discussions are destroying the forum and make ordinary hairloss sufferers get fed up of the forum and not want to come back.

There is no longer any public interest in having further discussions on TRX2 we have all read about it already, we know how to buy it if we ever want to, there is no need for these discussions to go on and on and on. It completely dominates and ruins this forum and it puts genuine posters off posting on the site. Please can the Moderator delete these discussions on TRX2 or I for one won't be coming back to this site.

----------


## GuyFromUK

I also strongly doubt you JCM800.

Your posts don't read like an impartial person. You created your account in January 2011 just like when Gutted did and at the same time TRX2 was launched. You are based in the UK (just like TRX2 is). The vast majority of posts you make are about TRX2, you come across very defensive by accusing others. The list goes on an on!

If you were up against a jury then there is no way they would believe you.

----------


## Jcm800

I don't really give a flying fck what you think of me mate. 

I'm just trying to hang onto my hair naturally.

Can't afford a HT and propecia frightens me. 

I do see where you're coming from however, read my posts all the way back Columbo, you'd see I'm hardly pro biolabs.

----------


## gutted

its you whos making this thread into a trx2 thread. 
Trx2 died down a long time ago.

your just coming across bitter, i think many people on here know what the deal is with these "new products" and these "natrual produts" and the majority are waiting for the "real" next gen treatments to hit market without paying any attention to trx2, your actually bringing more attention to trx2.

To top it all off you have 4 posts!!! how do we know your not from loreal!!! or merck! 

you dont work in risk assessment by any chance do you?

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Well the post is clearley aimed at me...Im the one who started the trx2 and msm and vit c thread. 
> If you read the thread you would see in no way do i tell people to buy trx2, and advise the trx2 ingredients along with msm/vitc is enough do you think trx2 would advise people to do this? 
> 
> Im a *REAL* user not no BS'er.
> 
> Join the club, I learnt to NOT believe what i read on forums eons ago, and make my own mind up rather than follow forum consensus.


 I think gutted is a sincere real poster.

The fact that he responds so quickly, goes to show he is an actual forum user. 

I only wish that he would post pics up of his hair, that is why I am on the fence.

----------


## GuyFromUK

Yep, you have got it one, I work for Merck.

We discovered over the weekend that if propecia is mixed with vitamin C that 0% of men will get side effects and that 100% of men will regrow a full head of hair (with a mullet) within a month.

This will be the last post I make on this forum so you don't need to bother replying.

And for the record I am not in any way bitter. I jut don't like seeing innocent young guys being ripped off on a stupid unproved product which they have to swallow and have no idea what it is doing to their body.

You guys are so much about the money that you are prepared to exploit other human beings vulnerabilities and play russian roulette with their health just to make yourselves some quick cash.

----------


## GuyFromUK

yeahyeahyeah I believe you are also part of this TRX2 scam

The fact that all "3" of you are posting defensive desperate replies so quickly looks suspicious. 

I don't know why I get so annoyed by all of this but for some reason I do. I just find it so evil and immoral that you try and con people out of their money in this way.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> yeahyeahyeah I believe you are also part of this TRX2 scam
> 
> The fact that all "3" of you are posting defensive desperate replies so quickly looks suspicious. 
> 
> I don't know why I get so annoyed by all of this but for some reason I do. I just find it so evil and immoral that you try and con people out of their money in this way.


 LOL

I have never taken it.

----------


## gutted

> yeahyeahyeah I believe you are also part of this TRX2 scam
> 
> The fact that all "3" of you are posting defensive desperate replies so quickly looks suspicious. 
> 
> I don't know why I get so annoyed by all of this but for some reason I do. I just find it so evil and immoral that you try and con people out of their money in this way.


 loool

dude chillout...stress is bad for hair!

----------


## Jcm800

Yeah man buy some trx-make me richer - rolls eyes -

----------


## thechamp

Is this vitamin d  propecia thing real

----------


## gutted

> Is this vitamin d  propecia thing real


 looool!!!

10 char

----------


## thechamp

I just read it again lol

----------


## ammin

@Gutted

Dont **** with me dude. I work a very stresful job on wall street and I have to be on my A game everyday. I wake up everyday and the state of my hair determines my productivity. Now I am hoping your combo will halt hair loss completely. I am not seeking any regrowth. If your advice turns out to be in-effective I would lose my mind. I humbly request to come out of the closet in case you are representing TRX2. There are *sanities* at stake here.

I believe you are just another hair loss sufferer since when I asked you for hair loss cessation products you suggested MSM and Vit C alone. But now the seeds of doubt have been planted and I dont know what it will take to unroot them.

----------


## Jcm800

Ffs gutted is just trying to solve the problem we all suffer from, I'm following his ideas, I'm just a poor fkn bloke hanging on to his fading looks, give it a go screw the accusers, weigh it up yourself

----------


## ammin

Let me say this to anyone who is representing TRX2: There are a lot of emotionally fragile people on this forum. All the money in the world from selling  bottles of TRX2 wouldn't be worth a ruined life. 

Please be sincere in your convictions Gutted.

----------


## gutted

> @Gutted
> 
> Dont **** with me dude. I work a very stresful job on wall street and I have to be on my A game everyday. I wake up everyday and the state of my hair determines my productivity. Now I am hoping your combo will halt hair loss completely. I am not seeking any regrowth. If your advice turns out to be in-effective I would lose my mind. I humbly request to come out of the closet in case you are representing TRX2. There are *sanities* at stake here.
> 
> I believe you are just another hair loss sufferer since when I asked you for hair loss cessation products you suggested MSM and Vit C alone. But now the seeds of doubt have been planted and I dont know what it will take to unroot them.


 lol dude, the guy has no more than 4 posts and is clearley some shill for some company or an infrequent visitor to the forums whos hairloss has made him bitter & frustrated.

also, if you read the thread correctly you will see what i state is ->  msm/vitc alone will probably stop your loss, and trx2 will give you regrowth, if you want it.

----------


## clandestine

stfu about trx2, this is the neoshitter thread

----------


## thechamp

Why don't we get a wig like mr Ben Aflek he is bald and a famous actor!!

----------


## Erick

> there you go.


 Haha, looks like one of those RIP pictures man. Anyways, looks like you're getting attacked gutted. 

I will also be posting my pictures pretty soon, I will have to pick up my package tomorrow and maybe get a haircut to really see the difference.

----------


## Kiwi

> lol dude, the guy has no more than 4 posts and is clearley some shill for some company or an infrequent visitor to the forums whos hairloss has made him bitter & frustrated.
> 
> also, if you read the thread correctly you will see what i state is ->  msm/vitc alone will probably stop your loss, and trx2 will give you regrowth, if you want it.


 Normal Vit C. Okay. Check.
Where can you get MSM in new Zealand mate?

Is TRX2 a shampoo?
Do you honestly reckon it might thicken up some of the "almost" gone hairs :-/

----------


## gutted

> Haha, looks like one of those RIP pictures man. Anyways, looks like you're getting attacked gutted. 
> 
> I will also be posting my pictures pretty soon, I will have to pick up my package tomorrow and maybe get a haircut to really see the difference.


 lol

10 char

----------


## gutted

> Normal Vit C. Okay. Check.
> Where can you get MSM in new Zealand mate?
> 
> Is TRX2 a shampoo?
> Do you honestly reckon it might thicken up some of the "almost" gone hairs :-/


 
do a google search ->

http://www.tasmanhealth.co.nz/doctors-best-msm-1500mg/


trx2's a supplement. I cant say for sure. Its best taking this discussion to the other thread.

----------


## Ted

Gutted how do you know its not the trx2 only that has saved your hair?

----------


## new bubble

[QUOTE=GuyFromUK;84682]Yep, you have got it one, I work for Merck.

We discovered over the weekend that if propecia is mixed with vitamin C that 0% of men will get side effects and that 100% of men will regrow a full head of hair (with a mullet) within a month.

This will be the last post I make on this forum so you don't need to bother replying.


Glad its your last post then you can piss off, Gutted is genuine in his posts and his combo worked for me only MSM and VIT C, i haven't tried trx2

----------


## gutted

> Gutted how do you know its not the trx2 only that has saved your hair?


 read the thread that i started. Its in tehre why i think its NOT only the trx2 but the msm and Vitc.

At the time that i started trx2 i was also on msm/vitc for other reasons, on AND off. When i would get off it, i *noticed* that i would itch and lose hair in the mpb regions than had i stayed on.
This to me implied that it wasnt ONLY the trx2, but the msm too. Although i clearley did notice trx2 growing hairs and adding volume, to me it felt like it didnt stop the mpb process. Hence why i attribute the stoppage to msm/vitc and the regrowth to trx2.

----------


## thechamp

Dam I wish vitamin c and propecia together was real

----------


## doke

im not sure about shills i was acused of being one for a product at hairlossfight until jacob told them who i was and the many hair loss forums i have been on as i had to change my site name at hlf.
But anyway trx2 never did anything for me nor has har voske at this time although i have only been on it just over the month.
I have restarted this week minoxidil+progestorone topical 5%.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> im not sure about shills i was acused of being one for a product at hairlossfight until jacob told them who i was and the many hair loss forums i have been on as i had to change my site name at hlf.
> But anyway trx2 never did anything for me nor has har voske at this time although i have only been on it just over the month.
> I have restarted this week minoxidil+progestorone topical 5%.


 No offense to gutted, but I think this goes to show how ****ed up MPB is, when we are resorting to unproven treatments.

----------


## thechamp

So I wonder why some dude would randomly say that shit hahahah imagine if a vitamin took all the sides away from propecia :Smile:

----------


## thechamp

http://stemcellbaldnesscures.com/neo...w-hair-growth/

----------


## thechamp

Loreal is the real deal baby, http://stemcellbaldnesscures.com/neo...w-hair-growth/ keep going gutted :Smile:

----------


## Dazza

> Loreal is the real deal baby, http://stemcellbaldnesscures.com/neo...w-hair-growth/ keep going gutted


 Did you even read the link you posted? Or did you just get excited that there was a video on the page and thought this is the real deal.. If you did then you would realise that all this is doing is stimulating the hair out of the normal resting phase..

Nothing to do with the damaged hair unable to grow.

You are promoting crap champ. Please read before spewing crap like "this is the real deal" when it's not. Far from it...

----------


## Kiwi

> Did you even read the link you posted? Or did you just get excited that there was a video on the page and thought this is the real deal.. If you did then you would realise that all this is doing is stimulating the hair out of the normal resting phase..
> 
> Nothing to do with the damaged hair unable to grow.
> 
> You are promoting crap champ. Please read before spewing crap like "this is the real deal" when it's not. Far from it...


 It's pretty good though right. I'd use it maintain my hair and wake up anything that remains :P

----------


## Dazza

> It's pretty good though right. I'd use it maintain my hair and wake up anything that remains :P


 But the healthy hair is due to wake up anyways, your basically forcing it to wake up. What happens when the hair you force to wake up and the hair due to go into resting phase all rest at the same time. Your hair would look worse.. But that's ok you can just buy more of this crap to the force more hair out of there normal sleeping phase again making your hair cycle messed up... Seems good for there wallets not yours.

It's not pretty good. Also is wont maintain your hair. The underlining problem still exists. Your hair is still being damaged by DHT/pgd2. This is doing nothing for your MPB at all.. They even say this in the reports.

----------


## krewel

> 100$ for a month supply.
> Nice.
> Grade A snake oil.


 First time I agree with you.

----------


## gmonasco

> But the healthy hair is due to wake up anyways, your basically forcing it to wake up. What happens when the hair you force to wake up and the hair due to go into resting phase all rest at the same time. Your hair would look worse.


 I think the active/resting cycle time of individual hairs is quite variable; otherwise, all our hairs would periodically be falling out at the same time  throughout our lifetimes.

The greater danger might be if our follicles are genetically programmed to miniaturize and "die" after a certain number of cycles.  If that were the case, then forcing them out of the telogen phase prematurely might be shortening their lifespans.

----------


## Kiwi

> I think the active/resting cycle time of individual hairs is quite variable; otherwise, all our hairs would periodically be falling out at the same time  throughout our lifetimes.
> 
> The greater danger might be if our follicles are genetically programmed to miniaturize and "die" after a certain number of cycles.  If that were the case, then forcing them out of the telogen phase prematurely might be shortening their lifespans.


 Thanks. I assumed that was what Dazza was trying to say.

Dazza - how the **** do you know?

Time will tell... But only with good before and after shots :P

----------


## Dazza

> Dazza - how the **** do you know?


 How do I know what? 

That hair cycles? That's kinda common knowledge. With what I put ofc it was speculation, with what I read from the post and studies linked here all this stuff is doing is awakening healthy resting hair. All I was saying is what if this forces hair to wake prematurely what happens to that cycle and the hair in the normal cycle? We shed hair daily.

Or was it that the balding problem still persists? The study's and reports also posted in this thread confirm this does nothing for the ongoing problem. That's DHT/PGD2, this product does nothing concerning these issues so using this your hair is still going to fall out. This will not stop hairloss. This will only wake up hair from the sleeping phase.

----------


## Dazza

> The greater danger might be if our follicles are genetically programmed to miniaturize and "die" after a certain number of cycles.  If that were the case, then forcing them out of the telogen phase prematurely might be shortening their lifespans.


 I don't think that's the case, the reason we loose our hair is the environment within the scalp. I have not read anywhere that follicles have a genetically programmed lifespan, the reason they don't grow is the damage caused by these issues, DHT/PGD2.

----------


## share2die

Where can i buy and give try..
i am not able to find ...i searched all over the net

----------


## gmonasco

> I have not read anywhere that follicles have a genetically programmed lifespan, the reason they don't grow is the damage caused by these issues, DHT/PGD2.


 Those aren't necessarily mutually exclusive explanations.  It could be the case that DHT/PGD2 hastens hair loss in some people, but that even without that effect follicles have finite lifespans and will eventually stop producing hairs regardless.  After all, even men who don't experience MPB still lose hair as they grow older.

----------


## Dazza

> After all, even men who don't experience MPB still lose hair as they grow older.


 But that's MPB making them loose hair, not there age or the follicles lifetime. I have not heard or even read anywhere follicles have a lifespan. There are hundreds of older chaps with full heads of hair, my grandad being one of those.

----------


## thechamp

Will this be the big 4 now

----------


## The Alchemist

> But that's MPB making them loose hair, not there age or the follicles lifetime. I have not heard or even read anywhere follicles have a lifespan. There are hundreds of older chaps with full heads of hair, my grandad being one of those.


 The hairs having limited life cycles is a bogus theory.  If it were true then eunuchs would go bald and as we all know, they don't.  And as you've pointed out, there are plenty of old men with full heads of hair.  Also, the horshoe rim of hair on bald guys usually doesn't fall out.   So, not sure how that idea of limited cycles got started but, it's not anything more than internet chatter.

----------


## Dazza

> Will this be the big 4 now


 Do you even read what people post, one of the most useless posters.

No it's not..

----------


## Dazza

> The hairs having limited life cycles is a bogus theory.  If it were true then eunuchs would go bald and as we all know, they don't.  And as you've pointed out, there are plenty of old men with full heads of hair.  Also, the horshoe rim of hair on bald guys usually doesn't fall out.   So, not sure how that idea of limited cycles got started but, it's not anything more than internet chatter.


 Totally agree. Well put too.

----------


## thechamp

I agree but hey I think we are wasting our time on this forum for at least 3 years

----------


## gmonasco

> The hairs having limited life cycles is a bogus theory.  If it were true then eunuchs would go bald and as we all know, they don't.


 No, because even men who are not eunuchs don't necessarily go bald.  MPB is not the only form of hair loss.




> And as you've pointed out, there are plenty of old men with full heads of hair.


 No, I didn't say that.  Some men reach advanced age without experiencing MPB or cosmetically significant hair loss, but they nonetheless have less hair than they did earlier in life.




> Also, the horshoe rim of hair on bald guys usually doesn't fall out.


 Then clearly DHT isn't the culprit, because if it were, then those hairs would fall out too, right?  

Obviously there's something different about the follicles in that area of the scalp.   It might be that they're typically genetically programmed for a longer life cycle than follicles in other parts of the scalp.

----------


## The Alchemist

> No, because even men who are not eunuchs don't necessarily go bald.  MPB is not the only form of hair loss.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I didn't say that.  Some men reach advanced age without experiencing MPB or cosmetically significant hair loss, but they nonetheless have less hair than they did earlier in life.
> 
> 
> 
> Then clearly DHT isn't the culprit, because if it were, then those hairs would fall out too, right?  
> ...


 This has been studied to death.  The hairs, due to genetic polymorphism, are either susceptible, or not, to DHT induced damage.  That is why the hairs on the horshoe remain -they have been proven to have different genetic expression then hairs from balding regions.  That is why some men go bald and some don't.  It also explains why some men dont lose hair until advanced ages and eunuchs don't go bald.  There are libraries of evidence supporting and fully explaining the phenomenon.

If you have scientific literature supporting the "limited life cycle" hypothesis,   please provide it.  Otherwise, it's nothing more than internet chatter.

----------


## Erick

I want to let everyone know that I have received my package and applied it to my scalp for the first time today. Since I don't think it will make much sense to post pictures until I get a haircut I will only upload the product and then my hair for comparison.  

What I am using:
Propecia: have been on it for about 2 years now.
Best MSM 1500 OptiMSM(good kind)

Unrelated but just for the sake for information:
Iodoral - High Potency Iodine/Potassium Iodide 
Noopept - about 50mg a day or more. 

Applying: 
Nizoral - once a week
Sulfate free Shampoo daily
Neogenic - going to apply it daily

----------


## Kiwi

> I want to let everyone know that I have received my package and applied it to my scalp for the first time today. Since I don't think it will make much sense to post pictures until I get a haircut I will only upload the product and then my hair for comparison.  
> 
> What I am using:
> Propecia: have been on it for about 2 years now.
> Best MSM 1500 OptiMSM(good kind)
> 
> Unrelated but just for the sake for information:
> Iodoral - High Potency Iodine/Potassium Iodide 
> Noopept - about 50mg a day or more. 
> ...


 Dude you totally need to post before and after shots.

----------


## Erick

> Dude you totally need to post before and after shots.


 Yes I will, I do also have to say that the little tube used to apply the liquid is complete garbage. The first time I tried it, I wasted one little bottle because it dropped on the floor. So now I guess i'm going to have to use one of those little water sprayers used at the barber shops.

----------


## dex89

> Yes I will, I do also have to say that the little tube used to apply the liquid is complete garbage. The first time I tried it, I wasted one little bottle because it dropped on the floor. So now I guess i'm going to have to use one of those little water sprayers used at the barber shops.


 what's your norwood mate?

----------


## UK_

If someone can point me to a thread about the ISHRS meeting then please do so.

Has anyone here got any information on how we can view the presentations at the ISHRS Annual Scientific Meeting which started yesterday?

Histogen, Aderans, PGD2 will all be discussed there.

Any help would be appreciated. :Big Grin:

----------


## Erick

> what's your norwood mate?


 I don't know exactly, it's not one of those traditional receding hair lines. I think it's what you call defuse thinning, I would probably have to say a 1 or 2 maybe. I grew a lot of hair back with finasteride.

----------


## StayThick

I also purchased the Vichy Neogenic and will reporting my results through 3 months on this forum. Will it work? I say no, but at this point I am willing to try anything that might produce some sort of thickening. I'll gladly inform you all of my progress throughout the 3 month duration.

For those that call it snake oil, your probably right...but if your bald or balding, don't you think $124 is worth spending to "possibly" see some growth. I mean do any of you work? That's 2 1/2 months of Rogaine foam. I mean the complaining I see on here is amusing to me. YOU ARE BALD, work and try products that might have an effect..especially if you are already spending money on other products designed for your hairloss.

That being said, I purchase mine from EBAY and it is legit and looks like all the others I seen so far. The applicator by far is the worst of it's kind I have seen or used, especially when being compared to the backed up sprayer of the old Spectral DNC. I literally leaked less than half the bottle trying to use it. I guess with Loreal you shouldn't be surprised.

The scent isn't horrible, but it is noticable and last's a while. This product isn't the best if you use it in the AM before work, as it leaves your hair slightly greasy looking. I am one bottle in, so again, I'll let you all know my progress.

I am only taking Rogaine Foam 2x a day and a sulfate-free Regenepure DR and NT as a shampoo. I also just added EMU oil this week as a topical to try in the PM. As far as FIN goes, I will NEVER touch that again...I'll save that experience for another post. Good day everyone.

----------


## Stanth

Thanks StayThick for saying about reporting results... I too am sceptical to say the least, but before writing something off, it'd be good to see any actual results, good or bad. Be interested to see how it goes!

----------


## Buy The Ticket

Any updates from anyone?
Thanks.

----------


## UK_

I got an update:

This product blows ass.

----------


## thechamp

Glad I didn't buy it join Cetirizine thread hay fever tablets topical its all happening there

----------


## The Alchemist

> I got an update:
> 
> This product blows ass.


 
Hahaha!  So True!

----------


## StayThick

Update: It has been 2 full weeks as of now and have not noticed any improvement to date. At 2 weeks in its still way to early to judge a product on its effectiveness. The product claims it takes 3 months to notice results...so I ordered 3 months worth to test the product.

For me, the price isn't going to send me to the streets and its worth a shot if the product will produce results Loreal claims it will. At the end of the day, I don't expect much from Neogenic, but if it helps everybody save money..I'll gladly report my results moving forward.

----------


## StayThick

> Hahaha!  So True!


 Have you personally tried Neogenic? Did you use it for 3 months? Exactly, you haven't because it hasn't been out that long. Don't judge a product if you have never tried it...with that logic you should just enjoy being bald and avoid these forums.

I, however, will see if Neogenic will work for me with a 3-month trial. If it blows it blows..I have no problem saying so, especially if it helps everybody save cash...but don't talk out of your rear if you never gave it a shot.

----------


## Ted

> Update: It has been 2 full weeks as of now and have not noticed any improvement to date. At 2 weeks in its still way to early to judge a product on its effectiveness. The product claims it takes 3 months to notice results...so I ordered 3 months worth to test the product.
> 
> For me, the price isn't going to send me to the streets and its worth a shot if the product will produce results Loreal claims it will. At the end of the day, I don't expect much from Neogenic, but if it helps everybody save money..I'll gladly report my results moving forward.


 Thanks for testing this!
Are you on anything else?

----------


## StayThick

> Thanks for testing this!
> Are you on anything else?


 Yes...Rogaine Foam, Emu Oil, and Regenepure DR & NT as a shampoo obviously.

Anything Neogenic produces from a positive stand-point I will know it was directly because of that product. The foam and Emu oil hasn't really produced anything of substance for me...basically has maintained what I have.

I'm hoping for additionally thickening on the top of my head, crown, and if the stars align..my hairline. We shall see. I am not slick bald yet, so I'm hoping I can see some positive cosmetic effect.

----------


## elusive52

> I got an update:
> 
> This product blows ass.


 just like your mouth!!!! lol

----------


## Kirby_

Haven't seen any user results photos (before/after) yet, and many of the people I've spoken to online who started it gave up on it fairly early.

----------


## StayThick

> Haven't seen any user results photos (before/after) yet, and many of the people I've spoken to online who started it gave up on it fairly early.


 The product just came out? I haven't been on it a full 3 weeks yet. Me? I bought 3 boxes for a 3-month trial. Loreal claims its results came in that duration. I do know one thing, it's not harming my hair at this point. Drys fast, but has a distinct smell. Not bad, just distinct.

I'll report my results throughout as I mentioned. I don't trust people who claim they bought it then stop after 2 weeks because their hairline didn't grow in. Ridiculous logic.

----------


## Buy The Ticket

> The product just came out? I haven't been on it a full 3 weeks yet. Me? I bought 3 boxes for a 3-month trial. Loreal claims its results came in that duration. I do know one thing, it's not harming my hair at this point. Drys fast, but has a distinct smell. Not bad, just distinct.
> 
> I'll report my results throughout as I mentioned. I don't trust people who claim they bought it then stop after 2 weeks because their hairline didn't grow in. Ridiculous logic.


 Exactly, unless they have tried it for a full 3 months then it is impossible for someone to give an informed opinion.

Glad you are trying this out - keep us updated.

----------


## Mark86

Hi all,

I also am trying Neogenics. Started on October 6. Am 44, very thin on top and have been on Min/Prop for more years than i care to count!!! Those years have given me pretty much slowed the loss down to a crawl i reckon, but no regrowth.

My view is that Neogenics is making a noticeable difference (to me anyway). Its not earthshattering and its not all growing back, but i am noticing thickening/regrowth (not sure which) of areas mainly close to the 'horseshoe area'.

No real impact at the front, noticeable more hair in the crown. I will carry on to the 3 months point and see from there. I dont expect miracles but i'm willing to say it is doing something!

Its slightly niggling me why L'oreal only quoted results after 3 months. Whilst this is eye catching, i've found no information on results after 6 months or a year. You would think they would want to shout about it wouldn't you?
Could it be that it peaks and then its effectiveness begins to tail off? hope not

Mark86

----------


## the_dude78

Anyone else with updates on this? Someone with more than one post?

----------


## UK_

> Anyone else with updates on this? Someone with more than one post?


 Please see my last post (#978) for a detailed analysis into the efficacy of Neogenic.

----------


## Artista

Thanks go out to all of you who had tried it out and reported it here..appreciated.

----------


## doke

are you guys using the full ona a day vials? as you need to do as per instructions,then we may get a fair view of the product as said its not going to do much in the first few weeks after 3 monts or more it will be good to see.

----------


## Kirby_

The guys I knew who trying Neogenic have already given up. It's another Aminexil.  :Frown: 

Loreal UK never replied to my letters, BTW.

----------


## NeedHairASAP

sounds unfortunately like it snot working

----------


## the_dude78

> The guys I knew who trying Neogenic have already given up. It's another Aminexil. 
> 
> Loreal UK never replied to my letters, BTW.


 Well, I don't get why people would spend money on it only to give up after 1 or two months, when it clearly says it takes 3 months to see results. This way it's a waste of money for sure.

----------


## StayThick

> Well, I don't get why people would spend money on it only to give up after 1 or two months, when it clearly says it takes 3 months to see results. This way it's a waste of money for sure.


 I agree 100&#37; the_dude. I personally just started my 2nd month. So far I have noticed minor thickening of the crown/mid portion of my scalp. Unfortunately, the purpose of buying this was to see some activity in my slowly receding hairline..no results in that area as of now.

I use 1-6ml bottle per day as instructed on the box and it is more than enough to cover my entire head. In fact, for those that are tight on funds, I'm positive you could get over 2 months worth of treatment with 1 month worth of product. That's how much liquid comes in these capsules.

I'm following the instructions for now and using each bottle per day to ensure I can say this product worked or not based on their findings and studies. Again, so far I see real thickening in the crown and mid section of my scalp and I know this because I just got a haircut today and could see the difference. I'm still hoping for some regrowth in my corners of my hairline, but I won't hold my breath. For those that claim they know others that have quit...I say they are all tools. Who buys a treatment expecting a NW1 result or insane visible results in just 1 month? It takes time with any hairloss treatment before you can vouch if this is snake oil. The product just came out and it claims to use for 3 months to see positive regrowth.

I'll let everyone know how I shape up after my second month.

----------


## Buy The Ticket

Thanks for the updates StayThick.

Please, please keep it up for at least 4-5 months to get a true idea of this product.

Appreciate posters like yourself, you could save a lot of people money, and ensure word gets out that some products are a scam.

----------


## the_dude78

> I agree 100% the_dude. I personally just started my 2nd month. So far I have noticed minor thickening of the crown/mid portion of my scalp. Unfortunately, the purpose of buying this was to see some activity in my slowly receding hairline..no results in that area as of now.
> 
> I use 1-6ml bottle per day as instructed on the box and it is more than enough to cover my entire head. In fact, for those that are tight on funds, I'm positive you could get over 2 months worth of treatment with 1 month worth of product. That's how much liquid comes in these capsules.
> 
> I'm following the instructions for now and using each bottle per day to ensure I can say this product worked or not based on their findings and studies. Again, so far I see real thickening in the crown and mid section of my scalp and I know this because I just got a haircut today and could see the difference. I'm still hoping for some regrowth in my corners of my hairline, but I won't hold my breath. For those that claim they know others that have quit...I say they are all tools. Who buys a treatment expecting a NW1 result or insane visible results in just 1 month? It takes time with any hairloss treatment before you can vouch if this is snake oil. The product just came out and it claims to use for 3 months to see positive regrowth.
> 
> I'll let everyone know how I shape up after my second month.


 Yes, this is how it's done folks! I really appreciate what you're doing, StayThick. I may give it a go myself in a few months time, depending on the verdict of the Internet-jury of course.

----------


## StayThick

> Yes, this is how it's done folks! I really appreciate what you're doing, StayThick. I may give it a go myself in a few months time, depending on the verdict of the Internet-jury of course.


 No problem guys'. If the product is trash, I'll be the first person to inform everyone it isn't worth the steep price..honestly I would just shrug my shoulders if I don't see pretty substantial improvement. At least I can sleep at night knowing I'm doing everything in my financial means to fight this balding curse.

Keep in my mind guys I do have 3 months worth of Neogenic. So rest assured I will be using 3 months worth based on their claims. If I see continued positive regrowth, I'll buy another month worth but use it through 2 to save cash, as I mentioned above.

Stay positive fellas'

----------


## Dan26

Neogenic is a joke! The active ingredient is OK but there are much better and more effective solutions to spend money on than this....

I hope you see good results but this is a scam to milk people in the long term, I promise you could be using ur money on better things....

Minoxidle Sulpahte with adenosine you would probably see great results and they are both cheap AND water soluble so easy to use..if u are interested i will let u know when the next group buy for them is.

----------


## doke

> The guys I knew who trying Neogenic have already given up. It's another Aminexil. 
> 
> Loreal UK never replied to my letters, BTW.


 I think L oreal uk is a waste of time as they did promote aminexil but its france and l oreal - vichy that is behind neogenic.

----------


## StayThick

> Neogenic is a joke! The active ingredient is OK but there are much better and more effective solutions to spend money on than this....
> 
> I hope you see good results but this is a scam to milk people in the long term, I promise you could be using ur money on better things....
> 
> Minoxidle Sulpahte with adenosine you would probably see great results and they are both cheap AND water soluble so easy to use..if u are interested i will let u know when the next group buy for them is.


 And you are so confident in that statement because...? I think the only person that can make such a statement is somebody that tries this product for 3-months like myself. $390 for 3 months isn't going to put me in the dog house, but I speak for myself as that could be a financial detriment to many. But don't comment on a treatment being "a joke" just because it is made by Loreal. That makes you sound like a tool.

And for those that enjoy being a chemist in their own homes by mixing RU and creating topicals in their basement.. I wish you all the best. I'm not going to risk or spend ANY time putting together potentially dangerous ****tails on my head without proper studies on side effects and results..I mean I don't get some people. You have no idea what you're doing and just hopin your alcohol/minox formulation grows a couple a hairs...and those are the ones bashing an actual laboratory that produced Neogenic. You sound like a genius bro...

I think you're homemade ****tail is a joke? Your response would be...? I mean seriously.

----------


## ljpviper

It is really not that expensive. I purchased two boxes when it was realeased in Sept, i am on half the first box. I went to the drugstore and bought a small spray bottle, emptied the vials in it much easier.

Now my my results are a little tricky to gauge. I have been on avodart/rogaine since 2003. In early 2011 i noticed my hair was getting thinner. I decided to get a prp/acell treament from Dr Cole in June 2011. I would say it definatley helped the first 10 months, the hair shafts appeared thicker so i say it was a marked improvment. I downside is about month 10 after the treatment i noticed my hair a little thinner again. Went back to Dr Cole in August 2012 for another. 

Here are the variables. I started taking TOCO 8 in early September. I noticed less shedding and my hair color changed from brown to dark brown black. So at 20 bucks a month i would say a postitve.

I then added the Neogenic in late September. I noticed alot of velous hairs coming in and also terminal hairs that are new.

So all in all my hair looks better now than after the first prp/acell treatment in June 2011. 

I will ask Dr cole for my pics he took this year and post my hair now. So i would say the neogenic has helped.

i am 41 by the way been loosing my hair since 18.

So my current daily regimen is avodart/rogaine foam/toco 8/ neogenic

thanks

----------


## Dan26

> And you are so confident in that statement because...? I think the only person that can make such a statement is somebody that tries this product for 3-months like myself. $390 for 3 months isn't going to put me in the dog house, but I speak for myself as that could be a financial detriment to many. But don't comment on a treatment being "a joke" just because it is made by Loreal. That makes you sound like a tool.
> 
> And for those that enjoy being a chemist in their own homes by mixing RU and creating topicals in their basement.. I wish you all the best. I'm not going to risk or spend ANY time putting together potentially dangerous ****tails on my head without proper studies on side effects and results..I mean I don't get some people. You have no idea what you're doing and just hopin your alcohol/minox formulation grows a couple a hairs...and those are the ones bashing an actual laboratory that produced Neogenic. You sound like a genius bro...
> 
> I think you're homemade ****tail is a joke? Your response would be...? I mean seriously.


 Lol I am sorry man! I just think it is a very gimmicky product and l'oreal is just trying to milk people in the long run. I have actually seen a guys results on it and you know what they weren't that bad! I'm just saying there is better stuff out there, but I commend you for actually finding out for yourself. It is safe so no harm can be done, and if you can afford it so great. And say what you will about these ****tails but you yourself have not done any research on them. I am trying to build the safest most effective regimen possible, and if I have to go to the 'grey market' thats what i am going to do. As long as you have a trusted supplyer and get your compounds tested, and dont over dose, things like RU are fine. Go read the studies yourself, they do exist! It has been around for a long time! Not to mention CB which is in clinical trials and is very safe and more effective than fin!  

There is some scientific backing I am not completely discounting it. The concept of low oxygen(and by implication growth factors),  the active ingredient is a well known H1F inducer etc. If I ever wanted it though I would just buy the active ingredient and make it myself. I rather not use anything with PG in it personally.

Bottom line man, and I am just saying this based on what I have read myself and heard from knowledgeable people, ''Neogenic'' itself is a gimmicky product and not worth the money.

Good luck though.

----------


## StayThick

> It is really not that expensive. I purchased two boxes when it was realeased in Sept, i am on half the first box. I went to the drugstore and bought a small spray bottle, emptied the vials in it much easier.
> 
> Now my my results are a little tricky to gauge. I have been on avodart/rogaine since 2003. In early 2011 i noticed my hair was getting thinner. I decided to get a prp/acell treament from Dr Cole in June 2011. I would say it definatley helped the first 10 months, the hair shafts appeared thicker so i say it was a marked improvment. I downside is about month 10 after the treatment i noticed my hair a little thinner again. Went back to Dr Cole in August 2012 for another. 
> 
> Here are the variables. I started taking TOCO 8 in early September. I noticed less shedding and my hair color changed from brown to dark brown black. So at 20 bucks a month i would say a postitve.
> 
> I then added the Neogenic in late September. I noticed alot of velous hairs coming in and also terminal hairs that are new.
> 
> So all in all my hair looks better now than after the first prp/acell treatment in June 2011. 
> ...


 Viper, I also use Rogaine Foam and have been using it for around 3 years now with moderate growth at best. I am currently using Rogaine Foam in the AM and Neogenic in the PM and I was curious to how you're using both products.

Are you still using the foam 2x daily as recommended? I personally find it tedious to apply a topical 3x daily when I work long hours and also because Neogenic takes time to absorb and want to ensure I am maximizing it's possible benefits. How are you applying the two in combination? Thx.

----------


## ljpviper

What I do is apply the rogaine foam first then spray on the neogenis only once at night.

Buy the little spray bottles it's much easier to empty a bunch of vials into it.

----------


## the_dude78

> What I do is apply the rogaine foam first then spray on the neogenis only once at night.
> 
> Buy the little spray bottles it's much easier to empty a bunch of vials into it.


 But if you spray it on, won't most of it just end up in your hair rather than on the scalp?

----------


## hippynerd

hi, I've been using this for a few weeks.  I havent seen any visual difference yet, but an interesting thing I have noticed is I am shedding way less hair than normal.  Ive got weirdly thick hair (nearly every person who's cut my hair: "wow, you'll never go bald"..ha), and after a week or so normally the floor in my bathroom looks like a small animal has been moulting, but since Ive started this stuff It's very obviously reduced.  I've taken before photos (~NW2) and will take update photos in 3 months, and will post if there's any difference.

----------


## StayThick

> But if you spray it on, won't most of it just end up in your hair rather than on the scalp?


 Agreed. Unless you have close cropped hair like me, spraying would be a waste IMHO. I personally use an old Spectral Dnc dropper that was never used. It works perfect and allows the product to hit the scalp directly.

I wouldn't recommend spraying it on.

----------


## Cob984

anyone else have an update on this stuff? its its worth a shot and free of sides im in to try it

btw where on eath to you buy this from?

----------


## Mark86

hi,
Well my 3 months is up on Jan 6. i think for me, it has thickened areas where there was hair already(smallish part at the front), produced some hair where there wasn't any before (mostly close to the horseshoe area), and not done anything in areas where there was no hair or just vellus.
So, it has done something but no miracles. No negative side effects at all. I may give it 6months and see if things get even better but i dont think i hold out a lot more hope..

I get mine from here, but i think there may be cheaper places...http://www.sweetcare.pt/EN/shipping.aspx

hope that helps,
Mark 86

----------


## maxhair

Are there any senior members on here we can trust who have tried Neogenic?

----------


## StayThick

I'm not a senior member, but can chime in at my experience at this point. I have about a week left of doses until I hit my full 2 month on this product. As it stands right now, the product is what most assumed it was, nothing special.

I have yet to see any substantial improvement in my temple/hairline area where my hair is sparse and noticeably thinner. It looks to have thickened the crown/back area, but again, not earth shattering or something Id say is worth the price tag at this point.

As I mentioned, I'm going to try this product for 3 months per Loreals claim. But by looking at the progress, I am not expecting much.
It's not looking good fellas'. Might want to save your cash.

----------


## eqvist

I wonder if L’Or&#233;al really made some money of this scam in the end. I was going to by a skin cream but i thought hell ****ing no! I will not by something from this company! And I think it&#180;s alot more people thinking that!

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## VictimOfDHT

NOT EVERYTHING THAT GLITTERS IS GOLD. Unfortunately desperate people still think otherwise.

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## the_dude78

> I'm not a senior member, but can chime in at my experience at this point. I have about a week left of doses until I hit my full 2 month on this product. As it stands right now, the product is what most assumed it was, nothing special.
> 
> I have yet to see any substantial improvement in my temple/hairline area where my hair is sparse and noticeably thinner. It looks to have thickened the crown/back area, but again, not earth shattering or something Id say is worth the price tag at this point.
> 
> As I mentioned, I'm going to try this product for 3 months per Loreals claim. But by looking at the progress, I am not expecting much.
> It's not looking good fellas'. Might want to save your cash.


 Thank you for the update! So no real cosmetic results then. I think I'll pass on this one, unless, of course, the 3rd month suddenly shows some amazing results. One can dream, right?

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## Kirby_

TBH, it seemed massively unlikely to be a working treatment all along, being classed as cosmetics rather than a medicine. I haven't yet read any positive user reports about it, and it's still unavailable in many countries. Best to write it off.

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## Dan26

> TBH, it seemed massively unlikely to be a working treatment all along, being classed as cosmetics rather than a medicine. I haven't yet read any positive user reports about it, and it's still unavailable in many countries. Best to write it off.


 active ingrediant is decent, can benifit hair etc. actual product is overpriced and not worth it

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## Kirby_

> active ingrediant is decent, can benifit hair etc. actual product is overpriced and not worth it


 Do we have any data that the active ingredient works though? Other than the manufacturers' claims in their marketing material? If you've read the book Bad Science by Ben Goldacre, you'll agree that how Neogenic is marketed, using pseudoscience based around current buzzwords (hypoxia), is exactly the same as how Goldacre describes the ways antiwrinkle creams and other cosmetics are sold to the public.

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## Dan26

> Do we have any data that the active ingredient works though? Other than the manufacturers' claims in their marketing material? If you've read the book Bad Science by Ben Goldacre, you'll agree that how Neogenic is marketed, using pseudoscience based around current buzzwords (hypoxia), is exactly the same as how Goldacre describes the ways antiwrinkle creams and other cosmetics are sold to the public.


 The science/concept behind it is low oxygen enviornment(and by implication growth factors), the active ingredient is a well known H1F inducer....The product itself is a gimmick...not worth it...i wouldn't be shocked if some saw results, especially if they just got a hold of the active ingredient and used higher doses etc., but in reality it doesn't tackle a very important aspect of hairloss effectively, and there are way better alternatives

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## jman91

bump 10 char

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## Amino

This is dissapointing from L'Oreal and doesnt make sense as they have top scientists working in their labs, they have even created artificial skin previously.
They spend approx 500M each year on their research.
http://www.loreal.cz/_cs/_cz/research/homeres.aspx
I would have expected some solid results from the product if they made claims, maybe they skipped the research with this one!

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## StayThick

UPDATE: 3 days into my 3rd month on Neogenic and can say I'm not noticing anything ground breaking. At this point, I don't think 3 1/2 weeks I have left on the product is going to make a difference or provide 4&#37; density as Loreal claims. I will officially post on here once I complete the full 3 months, but as most claimed, this product does indeed look to be snake oil.

Which makes sense I guess because it hasn't even been released in the US yet, rightfully so. Sorry guys, wish I could tell you my temple hair is regrowing or crown filling in, but that's just not the case. Either way, I do believe I will have saved many $$ moving forward by trying this product a full 3 months.

My final review will be done in a little less than 4 weeks from now.

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## Mark86

well, 3 mths up was up on Jan 6.

Verdict for me is that yes it has activated some regrowth, not a vast amount but definitely noticeable. As i said in a previous post a month ago, it is mostly close to the horse shoe area and not at all on the top of the head. I even think the sides have thickened up but that could be my wishful thinking.

I will carry on with it up to 6 mths and see what happens. I am also on finpecia and minox.

I cant quite understand how the active ingredient (Stemoxydine) is meant to cause hypoxia (reduction in oxygen level in/around the follicle i think) whilst also increasing capillary density (which i would think brings more blood and hence oxygen into the area) ??

I'm sure there's a good answer somewhere!!

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## Jcm800

How exactly can you tell it's given you suspected results, when you're also on fin and minoxidil?!

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## Mark86

Jcm800,

Good Question...

The reason i think it is the Neogenic is because i have been on Fin and Min for some 10yrs+ and have only ever been able to maintain and in truth, slow the balding process to a crawl.
Over these last 3 mths, a bit of thickening in the areas i mentioned has happened and i have noticed the change.
As i say, its not earth shattering and no one has mentioned that my hair has grown back!! but there definititely something. Thats my contribution anyway

Regards,
Mark 86

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## Jcm800

Cool mate, well fingers crossed the trend continues and thanks kindly for testing and updating.

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## Kirby_

Mark86. did you take before/during/after photos when using Neogenic? Not to post here (unless you want to, of course), more so you can judge objectively how/if the Neogenic had an effect? I know how we can all 'feel' that our hair can be getting better or worse, but we all need photos to judge properly at the end of the day.

Also, is it true that the packaging recommends 3 months' usage per year, or continual year-round usage? There's some confusion over that aspect on hair loss forums.

Thanks.  :Smile:

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## Mark86

Hello Kirby,

I did take photos from the start to now, so covering 3 mths. They do show some regrowth, but as i stress, not 'blow your socks off' growth.

The neogenic packaging comes with some small instructions in various languages including English, they only cover how to apply the lotion though.

The box has no English on it although i think i can work out the Spanish and Portuguese text to saying, 1 dose a day for 3 months.

Not sure that helps that much!

Regards,
Mark 86

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## Jcm800

Is the regrowth visible/worth posting the pics?  Think id be better off with this rather than trx2, can't say I've noticed anything after ten months on that.

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## Kiwi

> Is the regrowth visible/worth posting the pics?  Think id be better off with this rather than trx2, can't say I've noticed anything after ten months on that.


 If there is any before after pics AT ALL that would be worth posting. 

The proof of the pudding is in the pictures. No pictures = just words.

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## kanyon

So just to confirm, this product is bullshit?

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## fred970

Yes it is.

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## clandestine

Grade A.

10blox

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## StayThick

Half way done with my 3rd month on Neogenic...can't say it did anything at all. Hair might have slightly gone worse, but not from the Neogenic. It's very expensive, but more importantly, very ineffective.

Bottom line: Save your money. I was a guinea pig for this forum using this product..$375 later I'm still losing my hairline.

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## UK_

> So just to confirm, this product is bullshit?


 Hmmm... tough one. 

Any ideas anyone?  I'm stumped.

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## LongWayHome

> Hmmm... tough one. 
> 
> Any ideas anyone?  I'm stumped.


 This is the cure man. the holy grail, The One, The chosen, The Oscar winner, The Emmy winner, The primetime, The meaning of life, Human's best friend, The genie, The knight on the white horse, This is GOD!





not.

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## HARIRI

Hi Guys, 

VICHY Decros Neogenic is available now in the pharmacies in Middle East (Dubai and Bahrain). They are using the slogan "1700 new hair in 90 days". I attached pics of the advertisement flyer given by the pharmacies along with its picture displayed in the shelf of Boots Pharmacy. It costs here around $76 for 14 Monodoses and $126 for 28 Monodoses. Its selling like crazy!!!

The Direction for use 

One Monodose / day as a cure during 3 months.

Use 1-2 times per year to awaken dormant bulbs.

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## Mark86

Hi Hariri,

I presume you do mean Boots Pharmacy in middle east (didn't know they were there as well a UK). 
I'm in UK but no sign of Neogenics in UK Boots, certainly no results when searching on the website.

Mark86

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## LongWayHome

HARIRI man...you do understand that this product is 100&#37; bullshit right?
Vichy is gonna get tons of money from this and in one year the whole world will say "Dammit we thought this is the one...well maybe not, oh well..."

And then 2 years from now Loreal will launch another thing called
"Holy-grailenic - regrow 10000 hairs NOW!! (+ Super vision)"
and over and over and over again......

When my hair loss started I discovered the Aminexil thing, I wasn't aware to anything else that time so I actually thought it will recover me. From that time I don't trust Vichy anymore. True story.

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## HARIRI

LongWayHome, I don't believe Vichy Decros Neogenic at all. I am aware its 100&#37; bullshit especially for men with Androgenic Alopecia. I just shared the news as I was surprised that it reached to the pharmacies in the Middle East and its being sold over the shelves just like Rogaine (Regaine). I was just pissed off with their confident claim (1700 new hairs in 90 days)!!! I was just sad when I started to see hair loss sufferers buying it like crazy because of lack of knowledge.

I'm sticking to Minoxidil 5% forever and not going to trade it with any other topical along with Keratene Alphactive Retard as a replacement to Fin and as a DHT controller.

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## LongWayHome

Yup...that's exactly like me man  :Smile: 
Minox 5% and the retard pills. Wow the name just ruins it..."retard"...
Brings confidence.

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## Kirby_

> LongWayHome, I don't believe Vichy Decros Neogenic at all. I am aware its 100% bullshit especially for men with Androgenic Alopecia. I just shared the news as I was surprised that it reached to the pharmacies in the Middle East and its being sold over the shelves just like Rogaine (Regaine). I was just pissed off with their confident claim (1700 new hairs in 90 days)!!! I was just sad when I started to see hair loss sufferers buying it like crazy because of lack of knowledge.


 The worst thing about shams like Neogenic is that I imagine that many hair loss sufferers try the product, discover that it doesn't work, then assume that there are no legit mainstream treatments that do work.  :Frown:  I wonder if that is likely to cause an uphill battle for whichever company gets a working treatment out on the market next (whether Bim or CB-03-01).

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## hippynerd

Hi, I've been using neogenic for 3 months now, and I believe it is working - actually now I've taken photos I think it's worked better than I had thought (some days I would think it's working, other days I'd think maybe I was kidding myself).  

On the right side, where the temple meets the front part of the hair I can tell it's started to fill in.  With the left hand side I really didn't think there had been much difference.  Looking at the photos though I can definitely see a change - before, the temple receded a notch back near the top, whereas now that's filled in!  Also what you can't see in the photos is I've had a lot of fluffy white hairs growing in the receded area on the right side.

right side before
http://i.imgur.com/jyud58I.jpg
right side after 1
http://i.imgur.com/vPzewnd.jpg
right side after 2
http://i.imgur.com/VLmrouE.jpg

left side before
http://i.imgur.com/qVjDC3j.jpg
left side after
http://i.imgur.com/4whhXUX.jpg

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## Kiwi

Why should we trust you 2 post!

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## StayThick

> Why should we trust you 2 post!


 Took it 3 months as directed Kiwi...and I can promise you it did little to nothing. Not worth the cash. Save yours!

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## Supersixx

Now THATS how you take good before and after pics.😝😂😭

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## Jcm800

Two posts - bah

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## hippynerd

> Why should we trust you 2 post!


 for one because I've taken photos.  So far 3 people have reported back on their experiences, 2 have been positive, 1 negative.  Of course you can't draw any conclusions when n=3, but it's a start.  I may have been lucky and it isn't effective overall, or it may work for many - time will tell.

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## UK_

> for one because I've taken photos.  So far 3 people have reported back on their experiences, 2 have been positive, 1 negative.  Of course you can't draw any conclusions when n=3, but it's a start.  I may have been lucky and it isn't effective overall, or it may work for many - time will tell.


 ...and he now has 3 posts.

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## eqvist

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...tem-cells.html

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## Jairus

> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...tem-cells.html


 4% increase in hairs after 3 months - pissing into the wind  :Smile:

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## Dazza

> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...tem-cells.html


 Lol, this company! It's a shame really, desperate guys will jump on this rebranded aminexil/neogenic and if anything make there situation worse.

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## StayThick

> Lol, this company! It's a shame really, desperate guys will jump on this rebranded aminexil/neogenic and if anything make there situation worse.


 I used Neogenic for 3 months and saw minor improvement at the hairline. Stopped for 2 months and saw my hairline get worse, so it actually did do something, at least for me. As minor as it may seem.

I just ordered another box. Won't lie to you. I think it's worth having in my regimen at the moment.

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## hellouser

Costs more than RU and has worse results?

No thanks.

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## StayThick

> Costs more than RU and has worse results?
> 
> No thanks.


 Agreed, nothing close to RU Hellouser. That's why I incorporated it with RU, Capillogain and the rest of my regimen.

I wouldn't recommend Neogenic to anyone. However, I think it has helped my hairline. Realized this after I stopped. Kept everything the same but took Neogenic out. I'll see what happens once I start again and get on RU. 

I'm hoping RU takes me to another level.

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## MrBlonde

> Costs more than RU and has worse results?
> 
> No thanks.


 Would you recommend RU as a standalone treatment?  I know you are using a few other creams, shampoos and treatments but is RU alone enough in your opinion?

Would it give regrowth near the hairline or just thickening the weak hairs there?

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## Cob984

Like I mentioned neogenic also has got reports of helping on HLH forums so while it is pricey and the cost/benefit ratio may not be optimal it 100&#37; is not snake oil,

I am going to add it to my regimen, should arrive this week, will report

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## doke

hi guys i hate to put a sock in this product as i bought into it as well but what has put me off is the guy on you tube that works for L Oreal and if this product worked surely he would have a great head of hair which he has not?so i think that a pgd2 blocker may be our next hope or bimatoprost or histogen.

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## eqvist

I really can&#180;t believe how L Oreal can **** with the angry bald guys! I will never in my life bye something from fake Oreal!

----------


## Plan C

Has anybody been using this stuff in 2014? Worth using alongside something like RU?

----------


## fred970

Of course not. It was a scam, nothing more, nothing less. No one had success on this.

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## burtandernie

All they have to do is grow 100 new hairs and poof they have a new 100 dollar a bottle hair tonic or MPB treatment. Pay off some university to do a little small study and your golden no wonder so many snake oils. All of you buying this stuff is what fuels the fire of the future snake oils.

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## hellouser

> All they have to do is grow 100 new hairs and poof they have a new 100 dollar a bottle hair tonic or MPB treatment. Pay off some university to do a little small study and your golden no wonder so many snake oils. All of you buying this stuff is what fuels the fire of the future snake oils.


 I haven't spent a dime on L'oreals crap.

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## bigentries

I've read about pretty mediocre results. And "mediocre" is the keyword.

Many people claim it grows very fine vellus hairs that never go terminal, and they fall as soon as you discontinue the treatment.

While it's far from a legit treatment, at least people are reporting some growth, and not exactly guys that came out of nowhere, so I trust their anecdotal evidence.

To me hypoxia has a future. We just need to know why exactly is hair growing from neogenic and see if there's something that can be added to boost regrowth

----------


## fred970

That's what they all say: "I see some vellus hair", that doesn't mean anything! If you take a very strong light and point it your scalp, from certain angles, you'll see that all your hairs are still there, only miniaturised. We know that our affected hairs don't actually die.

We all have vellus hair, everywhere on our bald areas, even my 52 years old NW5 father has them. We want to see actual terminal hairs, actual regrowth, not hairs that will never be visible to the naked eye.

----------


## bigentries

> That's what they all say: "I see some vellus hair", that doesn't mean anything! If you take a very strong light and point it your scalp, from certain angles, you'll see that all your hairs are still there, only miniaturised. We know that our affected hairs don't actually die.
> 
> We all have vellus hair, everywhere on our bald areas, even my 52 years old NW5 father has them. We want to see actual terminal hairs, actual regrowth, not hairs that will never be visible to the naked eye.


 Of course it's always "there's new vellus hair!" and "my shedding stopped!" without any evidence whatsoever, usually comes from people that have made a career at growing vellus hair and stopping shedding in hair loss forums, several times a year

I just happen to believe these people, some even posted pics. Yes, it's less than mediocre, I'm not questioning that, I'm just curious to know if it can take place in a future cure or at least an effective treatment

----------


## Swooping

I like the theory behind neogenic. It is a prolyl-4-hydroxylase inhibitor. Works by alternating HIF1-A which is the transcription factor for hypoxia. Therefore it induces a hypoxic environment in CD34+ lower stem cell reservoirs. Thus creating a "optimum" environment.

It acts as a weak inhibitor though. Works a tiny bit for me. but not worth the price and effort imo. Although i only use 3ml a time, so that makes it a bit better. The more hair the better lol.

----------


## thechamp

What sort of results have people had with this ?

----------


## hellouser

> What sort of results have people had with this ?


 Worse than minox.

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## thechamp

> Worse than minox.


 Well igrow is worth adding to my hair is much thicker

----------


## bananana

> Well igrow is worth adding to my hair is much thicker


 you mean laser therapy? does it really work and to what extent?

----------


## thechamp

Have look at my before and after igrow last page I just posted it's working for me but so many people are negative to me because I'm early stage hair loss

----------


## Pentarou

Is this product still being sold? I ask that purely out of curiosity, as I remember the discussion about Neogenic from 2012, and that it was never released in the UK.

----------


## Jasari

> Have look at my before and after igrow last page I just posted it's working for me but so many people are negative to me because I'm early stage hair loss


 To be honest, you've mentioned numerous things that have worked for you. In reality your hair loss is minimal if at all.

----------


## Hairismylife

Where can I buy this stuff?

----------


## doke

As to laser combs such as hairmax and also igrow they give hair more body and thicken it but it still has to be combined with other topicals or hairloss products. I find less is better than more with regrowth as applying too many topicals a day and too much harsh massage hampers my regrowth.
I wonder if that's why a light spray mist is better for minoxidil as in dr lewenbergs formula which is not massaged at all?

----------


## Johnmertens

I'm very happy that I discovered the Neogenic products at Farmaline.
I use the shampoo & monodose at the same time. Great results so far! I will continue using it :Embarrassment: 

You can find the products on this link: http://www.farmaline.co.uk/health/on...rcos-neogenic/

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## Jcm800

Oh really one post scammer?

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## Johnmertens

I'm new on this forum, so im not a scammer  :Frown:

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## thechamp

> I'm new on this forum, so im not a scammer


 Before and after pics please

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## fred970

Some moderator bans this scammer please! That's quite pathetic coming from l'Oréal by the way.

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## Bocaj

I think it's more likely coming from Farmaline, Fred.

----------

