# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  Dr Nigam, my own experience

## drnigams

Dear friends, 

            today we have done part procedure on Tom the independent forum member ,we extracted grafts for stem cells, DP culture and DP isolation and implanted them back ,we did preimplantation incisions, injected growth factors, Dermal papillae cells, progenitor stem cells. into the recipient and donor area.

          We  took macroscopic pictures ,took blood for PRP and plan to do 1200 to 1500 doubling on the hairline, Tom did not show us the contents of natural suppliments but informed me today that his blood becomes thinner with supplements but we still managed ,this may or may not lead  to swelling post procedure because of thin blood.

             I am not able to post all the pictures  at  the moment as it is getting late but a few pictures i will post for your review and inviting further suggestions,I know macropictures needs further improvments,as you know picture taking and rechecking taking takes a lot of time. We will also take pictures of petri dish with grafts both extracted and bisected.

                Exact count of extracted grafts ,grafts send for DP cell preparation, grafts taken for DP cells isolation

and grafts send for stem cells, grafts extracted and doubled, these details will be provided to you at the end of the procedure on the 29th of may as we have shaven the donor a bit more today.  How many singled out of triples and how many singled out from double units al;l this count will be posted when the procedure is over two days from today.

Preimplant incisions and implantation of few grafts at the hair line with injections of progeniter stem cells growth factors,DP cells, PRP and ECM



*DP cell isolation*



*DP cell isolation*



*Graft*









*Video Scope*


*Video Scope*

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## santos

Quote: Tom Vercetti

 "durent, you need to be like me: openmind. Not about the clinic or dr nigam, but about mumbai, a city with lot of life, hot, wet, tons of klaxons.. But after that, you have very nice peoples, you have a perfect hotel. Dr Nigam give me full attention. He send a driver pic me from hotel every day, he is a real gentleman and a genius, the kind of man who speak fast and very technique. 

He has a big team, the clinic make you confident because of the peoples who are working in it. 

About the procedure, it's same as bisanga about the pain, BUT they us ice before the local anestesia. An it makes the difference, but procedure is procedure, if you already made an hair transplant, you know what I mean. But the work is more complete here as you know.

Also, few things: do you know during the procedure, girl comes to massage your foot and legs ? 

The team is about 10 person who work on my case.

I really want a density as full as possible. I really hope get it.."

Well it looks like a good start for this fella... hoping the best.

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

if the results are as i hope they are i am heading to india soon,and again after and after

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## FearTheLoss

Let's hope something real comes of this! We are rooting for you Dr. Nigam!

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## justeone

Nice documentation as per usual . Looking forward to the updates. See you soon

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## clandestine

Quality documentation as far as I can tell. Will see how this case progresses.

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## KJ1982

Very, very exciting stuff indeed! Thank you for this, Dr. Nigam. I watch with interest.  :Smile:

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## didi

I have a good feeling about this one, we should be able to see donor regeneration within 2 weeks and after that all we need to do is to wait for recipient to grow out

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## veca

Let's hope for the best ... Didi, are you sure that two weeks is sufficient to regenerate the donor region? When can we expect the results of the recipients? I suppose it's similar to the FUT OR FUE .... 6 months?

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## Ted

Since Dr Nigam is using the in-vitro technique the doner regrowth should take the same time as the recipient, or am I missing something?

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## ccmethinning

One thing I do love about you Dr. Nigam, even if I don't yet fully believe in the legitimacy of your procedure, is your ability to relate to hair loss sufferers. Most hair transplant doctors, and hair scientists especially, are painfully out of touch with the concerns that hair loss sufferers face. You seem to know exactly what hair loss sufferers want, and how to explain things to them.

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## KO1

Dr Nigam, I am curious about your plans on expanding the donor regeneration technique to multiple clinics, why do that if the HM procedure offers more promise? Perhaps with combination of DP cell culture and HM, people will fly from all over the world to get treated...

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## drnigams

Today I recieved 3 to 4 macro pics  from tom... they are poor quality pics... just posting  to have an idea about healing, 
*even in these low quality pictures sent by TOM you can see donor  regeneration on 8th day*

*This is TOM's statement on Skype "Both recipient and donor healing is amazing and I can see donor and recipient on day 8 in videoscopic micro pictures"* 

He will be sending me video microscopic and macro pics , of better quality in next 2/3  days . . He will  take two or three days of training to click proper pics and than. I think better pictures will come. 

I can give you approximate count of the procedures  on tom as below-

1. Total drills in the 4 shaved buns 1475
2. Singles 762 Doubles 326  Triples 31 Total successful Extraction 1119 
3. 175 grafts sent for isolating and sourcing progenitor  stem cells and multiplied stem cell to be injected (These cells used for stem cell cannot  be used for donor and recipient regeneration count as intact send to the lab for  epidermal and mesenchymal stem cells)
 4. 75 grafts sent for 2D DP culture which will be injected in 6 weeks from day 0 which cannot be used for donor and recipient re generation .
5.  106 grafts used for DP cell isolation and re implanted  back at the donor from  where they were extracted. 
6.  Recipient shows 1044 implantation mostly singles few doubles
7. Most of the lower half of the  grafts part hair bulb was implanted as the donor except approx 200 lower half injected most of the upper half of the follicle implanted  approx 75 grafts were drilled but grafts not extracted from these 75 drills at donor.


*Recipient*







*Donor A strip*










*Donor A strip*

I am posting 8th day pics sent by tom which are not clear just to observe the quick and neat healing and observe early regeneration at the donor , hopefully he will give better  pictures in next 2-3 days including video scope pictures.

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

very nice Dr,

Dr Nigam how many times can you use the donor with regeneration? unlimitted? what is the ideally time gap between operations ? 

i think that if you can do sessions of 4000 grafts to 8000 grafts via doubling you are unique

 :Smile:

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## garethbale

> *This is TOM's statement on Skype "Both recipient and donor healing is amazing and I can see donor and recipient on day 8 in videoscopic micro pictures"*


 Thank you Dr Nigam

However I think it will be important to have *independent* verification *directly from* Tom to users of this forum

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## tom vercetti

Well, first i'm sorry for the pictures, because i spend much of times and finally result is only few pics are OK for dr nigam. I need to improve, but arashi should be happy as the donor should be shave again when I come back to double the density. So, professional photographer will do his job.

For the healing it's really impressive, it's about at least half the time it was with my previous hair transplant.. it's really amazing, maybe it's the combo: PRP / ECM ? we could call that the dr nigam grand mother secret lol

Do you guys have any idea how to improve the hair count per graft ? When I get my previous Fue i get tons of 3hairs per graft and few of 4. I read for exemple that HASCI can only get about 1,5 (acording to arashi the specialist), why a low number like that compare to normal fue ? 

Anyway, with the DP culture and growh factor I hope it could also give some hair to previous graft. Let's see..

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## clandestine

Cheers Tom.

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## tom vercetti

thanks for all of you to support me. No one know i did it.. Only you my "followers", so really I appreciated to read all your message here. I hope have good result as you will have

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## Arashi

> Do you guys have any idea how to improve the hair count per graft ? When I get my previous Fue i get tons of 3hairs per graft and few of 4. I read for exemple that HASCI can only get about 1,5 (acording to arashi the specialist), why a low number like that compare to normal fue ?


 I'm by no means a specialist here Tom, but it seems from the 50 grafts test HASCI did (they did 2) that they have difficulties extracting 3 hair grafts. Probably because of the extremely small punch size of the needle. And it seems the 1's and 2's are evenly divided, which would mean an average of 1.5. But please note that this just my own conclusion, based on the 2 tests.

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## Arashi

> but arashi should be happy as the donor should be shave again when I come back to double the density. So, professional photographer will do his job.


 If you can prove (or disprove) dr Nigam's theories like this, I think I won't be the only one you're making happy Tom  :Wink:  Your case is a very very interesting case for all us baldies out there ! Thx for taking the time to document it !

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## 534623

> Do you guys have any idea how to improve the hair count per graft ? *When I get my previous Fue i get tons of 3hairs per graft and few of 4.* I read for exemple that HASCI can only get about 1,5 (acording to arashi the specialist), why a low number like that compare to normal fue ?


 Sure, and with the tons of 3-hair and 4-hair grafts - you got the "amazing result" with Dr. Bisanga in Brussels I could read so much about it.

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## gc83uk

Sorry I haven't had time to read this entire thread yet, but why is only 2% of the total extractions 3 hair grafts? I would have expected more than 31.

Perhaps I've misread, best of luck and thanks for documenting.

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## StinkySmurf

> HM will be  very cost effective,less painful, specially for an nw7,who will need bigger number of hair,hm can avoid multiple visits for nw7...
> i do not know..but i meet patients who are scared of ht...


 I'm still in the scared of HT boat so I'm glad your still going after HM Dr Nigam, but these are great pics of Tom's recipient area so thanks for sharing Tom!

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## didi

*Originally Posted by tom vercetti View Post 

Do you guys have any idea how to improve the hair count per graft ? When I get my previous Fue i get tons of 3hairs per graft and few of 4. I read for exemple that HASCI can only get about 1,5 (acording to arashi the specialist), why a low number like that compare to normal fue ?*

hasci uses 0.6mm needle, too small to extract anything above 2 hair graft(every fue doc will tell you this)

If dr nigam get this right he will be the King of HT

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## gc83uk

wtf has Hasci got to do with it, we're talking about Nigam.

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## drnigams

Good to see u back GC,
we extracted less of 3follicles graft,as we wanted singles more for hairline..otherwise triple/quadruplet i can extract like normal fue extraction...for hairline..i would than need to divide them into singles.

Remember GC..you wanted a patch test for scarless procedure..we can follow TOM,for scarless procedure.

We are lucky to have ,a combo of dp cell,stemcell,ecm.. and  hence, can avoid scar even if i use wider punches(newer techniques in wound healing and scar management ,i keep learning from researchers in burn management)..you can google and find the role of dp cell,stemcell and ecm in wound healing..




> Sorry I haven't had time to read this entire thread yet, but why is only 2&#37; of the total extractions 3 hair grafts? I would have expected more than 31.
> 
> Perhaps I've misread, best of luck and thanks for documenting.

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## tom vercetti

> Sure, and with the tons of 3-hair and 4-hair grafts - you got the "amazing result" with Dr. Bisanga in Brussels I could read so much about it.


 my donor is good. For Bisanga I just did a 1000 graft to lower my hairline, but finally he chose to renforce my excisting hairline.. And didnt found any really change. If Dr Nigam can get me a such low hairline as dense as my previous density, believe me I would be happy. But I think we should place maybe more graft of 3 or 4 hairs just behind the line of 1 hair at the front to keep it natural.

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## One

Sorry Nigam and Tom,

but why were not put all grafts (2000-3000) at one time?

That is, I believe that 99% of people can not come and go from India to put 1000 grafts at a time.

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

i think that all were put, or at least can be put at once procedure lasting days(couple maybe)



> Sorry Nigam and Tom,
> 
> but why were not put all grafts (2000-3000) at one time?
> 
> That is, I believe that 99% of people can not come and go from India to put 1000 grafts at a time.

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## veca

Tom, can you tell me a little more about how you see the issue of "safety", especially when we talk about the growth factor? And another thing, what kind of results do you expect?

thanks man

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## Arashi

> 1. Total drills in the 4 shaved buns 1475
> 2. Singles 762 Doubles 326  Triples 31 Total successful Extraction 1119 
> 3. 175 grafts sent for isolating and sourcing progenitor  stem cells and multiplied stem cell to be injected (These cells used for stem cell cannot  be used for donor and recipient regeneration count as intact send to the lab for  epidermal and mesenchymal stem cells)
>  4. 75 grafts sent for 2D DP culture which will be injected in 6 weeks from day 0 which cannot be used for donor and recipient re generation .
> 5.  106 grafts used for DP cell isolation and re implanted  back at the donor from  where they were extracted. 
> 6.  Recipient shows 1044 implantation mostly singles few doubles
> 7. Most of the lower half of the  grafts part hair bulb was implanted as the donor except approx 200 lower half injected most of the upper half of the follicle implanted  approx 75 grafts were drilled but grafts not extracted from these 75 drills at donor.


 I don't understand the numbers. How should we see them ? Total extracted grafts was 1119. 175 sent out for isolation, were these whole grafts (so before split ?). Same question for the 75 grafts for DP culture. Then the 106 grafts for DP isolation, were they split ? 

You say 1044 halves were planted into recipient. How many went into donor ? And I don't understand this sentence "Most of the lower half of the  grafts part hair bulb was implanted as the donor except approx 200 lower half injected most of the upper half of the follicle implanted  approx 75 grafts were drilled but grafts not extracted from these 75 drills at donor"

Thanks

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## Arashi

Also, Dr Nigams, you were talking earlier about a max of 5000 grafts/session. But if approx 1000 grafts already take 3 days, does that mean that 5000 grafts equals 15 office days = 3 weeks ?!?!

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## One

> Also, Dr Nigams, you were talking earlier about a max of 5000 grafts/session.* But if approx 1000 grafts already take 3 days, does that mean that 5000 grafts equals 15 office days = 3 weeks ?!?!*


 That's right, Dr Nigam I do not know if updates on the forum writes her or his secretary but often do not understand what it means.

Read a bunch of names (cells dp-prp, re-growth factors), numbers, bulbs cut, put some in the culture, other implanted confuses us a lot.


Moreover, often does not respond in a direct manner to the questions.

Mine is the following: Why do not you have innestat all grafts at once? Are you able to engage with a density of 40-50-60 cm2 grafts in a session?

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## Arashi

I guess my point is: if you extracted 1119 grafts, sent 175 grafts for isolating and sourcing progenitor stem cells (which you state couldnt be used therefore in donor/recipient) and the 75 for DP culture can't be used either ... that means you had only 869 grafts for donor/recipient, yet you implanted 1044 into recipient ... does that mean you implanted way less in donor !?! It's a bit confusing.

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## drnigams

Dear,one i explained earlier...

Documentation took a lot of time,convincing tom not to lower hairline so much laterally took alot of time,ultimately had to agree with tom,it's is after his hairstyle which he loves..he is a fan of cristiano's hairline...

Another reason why tom's procedure was done slowly as he had not stopped is natural supplements ,niether i was told about it,when we did bt/ct ..his clotting time was outside normal range..which means thinned blood and clots late,still we managed without any complication or bleed or swelling. 

If i do not extract 200 grafts and implant sequentially for high quality ...time can be saved,not even fue doc 's do this.
FUE and doubling is different, as i explained in the earlier post,invitro doubling is even tedious for us than invivo,FUE requires2/3 people to doinvitro requires ateam of 9/10 people . 
kindly read my earlier post in response to gingko,
Still i can do 1500 grafts to 2000 grafts invitro doubling per day..if the other parametres are normal.
His hairline to be covered was approx 40sqcms,he will need 3000 grafts for a density of 70,which i will give him ...on his next visit.. 
For 300 grafts for hairline with density i need 3 days at mumbai..one session..hairline some docs do only 600 grafts on one day..for quality...non hairline ..is easy and fast.    




> Sorry Nigam and Tom,
> 
> but why were not put all grafts (2000-3000) at one time?
> 
> That is, I believe that 99&#37; of people can not come and go from India to put 1000 grafts at a time.

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## One

-

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## garethbale

> Dear,one i explained earlier...
> 
> Documentation took a lot of time,convincing tom not to lower hairline so much laterally took alot of time,ultimately had to agree with tom,it's is after his hairstyle which he loves..he is a fan of cristiano's hairline...
> 
> .


 Whose hairline?

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## Arashi

> Whose hairline?


 Christiano Ronaldo

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## drnigams

One,
Answer to your specific question if i understood correctly...

Do you want to know..why i give local anesthetic and extract approx 200 grafts from donor when patient lies in prone position and turn the patient into supine position give local anesthesia and implant at the recipient....

This is because,i want to expose the grafts  to minimum time, outside the scalp...as against extract all grafts and than implant after bisection..
This also consumes time...
Remember invitro doubling is not fue..there are multiple steps and 9/10 personnel team working together and not 2/3 as in fue..
With invitro ,i can implant 1500..to 2000G per day...provided all medical parameters are normal.. 







> That's right, Dr Nigam I do not know if updates on the forum writes her or his secretary but often do not understand what it means.
> 
> Read a bunch of names (cells dp-prp, re-growth factors), numbers, bulbs cut, put some in the culture, other implanted confuses us a lot.
> 
> 
> Moreover, often does not respond in a direct manner to the questions.
> 
> Mine is the following: Why do not you have innestat all grafts at once? Are you able to engage with a density of 40-50-60 cm2 grafts in a session?

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## garethbale

> Christiano Ronaldo


 oh yeah...pretty obvious!

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## drnigams

Invitro hairdoubling...equals 1500 doublings per day..which means ..in 4 days..approx.6000grafts doublings ..per session..repeat the same after 6 to 12 weeksr visit ..




> Also, Dr Nigams, you were talking earlier about a max of 5000 grafts/session. But if approx 1000 grafts already take 3 days, does that mean that 5000 grafts equals 15 office days = 3 weeks ?!?!

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## didi

wow, nice dr nigam.

*12 000 grafts in 2-3 months, no scarring/white dots+90&#37; growth and donor regeneration?*

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

what is the waiting time Dr? i mean when is the next available free to book time?


> Invitro hairdoubling...equals 1500 doublings per day..which means ..in 4 days..approx.6000grafts doublings ..per session..repeat the same after 6 to 12 weeksr visit ..

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## didi

this is Holy Grail, who cares abt HM..as far as im concerned this is a cure for HL.

Spencer, please organize an interview with Dr Nigam.

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

and soooooooooooon please


> this is Holy Grail, who cares abt HM..as far as im concerned this is a cure for HL.
> 
> Spencer, please organize an interview with Dr Nigam.

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## drnigams

I hope this will be clear now...

1)Total1475 extraction drills at the donor.

2)Out of these1475 drills.175grafts extracted for stemcells and 75 grafts extracted for dp culture and sent to lab.

3)106grafts extracted for dermal papilla cell isolation and than implanted back at the donor from where they were extracted without dermal papilla,these were not bisected.

4)1119 grafts left were bisected and double the number i.e 2238 grafts created by bisection.

5)1044 implanted at the recipient and 1194buiisected grafts were implanted at the donor...why we implant little more at the donor is to fill all extraction drills..

So ,if we get 1475-175-75=1225x2=2450-106(as they were not doubled,used for dpcell isolation)= 2344 grafts at donor and recipient combine is what we should get, for 100&#37;regen  in total at donor and recipient...anything less could be due to telogen/exogen(10%to15%),if at all you want to count them...anything less than this, means corresponding regeneration  percent ...
I can understand..invitro is new..and the process is different from fut/fue/invivo doubling..hence please feel free to clarify...




> I don't understand the numbers. How should we see them ? Total extracted grafts was 1119. 175 sent out for isolation, were these whole grafts (so before split ?). Same question for the 75 grafts for DP culture. Then the 106 grafts for DP isolation, were they split ? 
> 
> You say 1044 halves were planted into recipient. How many went into donor ? And I don't understand this sentence "Most of the lower half of the  grafts part hair bulb was implanted as the donor except approx 200 lower half injected most of the upper half of the follicle implanted  approx 75 grafts were drilled but grafts not extracted from these 75 drills at donor"
> 
> Thanks

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## drnigams

didi,
If donor is poor,than 3rd visit will be required,it  depends on donor density for example...
1)Someone has the safe donor area of  avg. 38cms length)x avg 7.5cms width(6cms at sides and10cms at back of the scalp) from sides to back of the scalp,thus the donor available is 38x7.5= 285 sqcms.
If the donor has a density of 40...that means the patient has 11400 grafts at the donor.if donor density is 30..than the available donor grafts would be..8400..in that case ,one more sitting 6months from the day zero will be required...those with  old fut scars..will have less available donor hence third session.. 
In two sittings we will extract 5000 and 6400 grafts ,with one sitting of 4/5 days on an avg.if patient is able to take local anesthesia,if not we will require third visit...remember,in two visit in this hypothetical case, we are not touching the same graft ...but virtually removing all the grafts at the donor...
If anyone feels not fully confident..i advice them..to undergo100/200 graft patch test ,see the donor and recipient regen and than go for mega session..
Practically speaking if nw7 has even poor donor ,which is the case most of the time..third visit will be required ...unless simultaneous hm injections also work..


QUOTE=didi;127537]wow, nice dr nigam.

*12 000 grafts in 2-3 months, no scarring/white dots+90% growth and donor regeneration?*[/QUOTE]

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## didi

in theory and practice nw7 should get covered in 6 months time with some 10 000+ grafts, that's very good.

if that's all true as you say than you shd start thinking about expanding your business, open more clinics to meet demand.

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## Arashi

> I hope this will be clear now...
> 
> 1)Total1475 extraction drills at the donor.
> 
> 2)Out of these1475 drills.175grafts extracted for stemcells and 75 grafts extracted for dp culture and sent to lab.
> 
> 3)106grafts extracted for dermal papilla cell isolation and than implanted back at the donor from where they were extracted without dermal papilla,these were not bisected.
> 
> 4)1119 grafts left were bisected and double the number i.e 2238 grafts created by bisection.
> ...


 I'm not sure I understand. When you say did 1475 extraction drills, does this mean that you extracted 1475 grafts ? Cause if that would be the case then if you'd want to attain 100% regrowth, you'd need to see 2950 grafts regenerate and not 2344 ?

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## One

Dr Nigam, even I don't understand.

Until now you said that with your technique in vitro you can choose to put half of the hair in the donor, and then have regeneration, or NOT put them both in the graft and recipient.

Now you said: "In two sittings we will extract 5000 and 6400 grafts, with one child of 4/5 days on an avg."

But if we extract 5000 or 6400 grafts and we want to regeneration in donor, we will have only half the recipient, that is 2500 + 3200 = 5700 or am I wrong?

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## drnigams

Dear one,
When i say 5000grafts  extracted ,it means 10000 bisected grafts available for implantation,not 2500plus2500.. 

And yes there are two options for graft placement, with invitro doubling...

1)Implant one bisected part at donor and the other bisected part at the recipient.

2)Implant both the bisected part at the recipient.

Now ,it depends on case to case ,who requires what..
If your donor is good and removing 4000 grafts will not make it look thin,than implant all the 8000bisected grafts(from 4000extracted grafts) at the recipient..
If your donor is poor than you have to implant one bisected part at the donor and the other bisected part at the recipient... 




> Dr Nigam, even I understood.
> 
> Until now you said that with your technique in vitro you can choose to put half of the hair in the donor, and then have regeneration, or NOT put them both in the graft and recipient.
> 
> Now you said: "In two sittings we will extract 5000 and 6400 grafts, with one child of 4/5 days on an avg."
> 
> But if we extract 5000 or 6400 grafts and we want to regeneration in donor, we will have only half the recipient, that is 2500 + 3200 = 5700 or am I wrong?

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## JDW

Apologies if this has been asked previously Dr Nigam, but when will the first patients treated in this way be 6/12months down the line so we can see their results?
thanks

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## drnigams

Arashi,
Let me explain step by step...
1)1475 grafts extracted fom donor.

2)175+75=250 grafts utilised for stemcell and dp culture..gone to lab..not used for bisection or implantation.

3)Now we are left with1475-250=1225 grafts.

4)106 grafts used for dp isolation and implante back at the donor withput bisection as the dermal papilla is used.

5)Now we are left with 1119 grafts to bisect and double...=2238 bisected grafts plus we have implanted 106 grafts used for dpcell isolation.
The total becomes 2344 grafts ..which should be regenerated.

6)The 250 grafts(normally we use in most of the patients only 150 grafts for stemcell and dpcultured cells isolation and multiplication)have not been bisected or implanted anywhere.

So those(250) drills ,theoretically will not show any hair,unless the injection of dpculture and stemcell creates new hair, in those(250) drills....which happened actually  in 15 graft  invitro doubling patch test...

For this calculation of what should be considered 100% regen..i have not taken into account(not deducted from the expected graft count) telogen/exogen...which i do not know..how many were,normally ,10 to 15% of telogen hair is present in the scalp at any given point of time...

even if you want to count the grafts send for stemcell..do not count it double..as they were not bisected...








> I'm not sure I understand. When you say did 1475 extraction drills, does this mean that you extracted 1475 grafts ? Cause if that would be the case then if you'd want to attain 100% regrowth, you'd need to see 2950 grafts regenerate and not 2344 ?

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## drnigams

JDW,
If you want to see more proof,you will see in next 6months to one year...as we document more and more cases...

One case of 5000grafts doubling to 10000 grafts is already being documented (2months ) in one of the thread ,...of invitro hair doubling..wherein all the bisected 10000 grafts were implanted at the recipient and not donor.His progress is being updated..

15 graft patch test with 100&#37; regen is 2months old...his progress is being updated...

In another thread.there is one case of invivo with 5000grafts doubling..but when he comes again..i will do invitro now(as i see better regen with the cases i have done)...his progress is being updated..


Plus we are doing daily one case of invitro now ....for local patients...local cases..i will continue documenting...

One to two members from the two forums, per month have booked for invitro..not all will document.

For those who want to be... personally... 100% sure..should get a patch test of 100/200 grafts(free,except basic stemcell,dpcultue cost)..follow the progress for few months and than decide for larger sessions...





> Apologies if this has been asked previously Dr Nigam, but when will the first patients treated in this way be 6/12months down the line so we can see their results?
> thanks

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## 534623

> *Arashi,
> Let me explain step by step...*
> 1)1475 grafts extracted fom donor.
> 
> 2)175+75=250 grafts utilised for stemcell and dp culture..gone to lab..not used for bisection or implantation.
> 
> 3)Now we are left with1475-250=1225 grafts.
> 
> 4)106 grafts used for dp isolation and implante back at the donor withput bisection as the dermal papilla is used.
> ...


 http://youtu.be/bhuOIbg-hM0

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## Phatalis

> http://youtu.be/bhuOIbg-hM0


 You're just making yourself look bad at this point man. Give it a break.

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## gc83uk

If I were to even come to see you Dr Nigam I would be more pushed towards Invivo rather than Invitro, despite your results on Invitro being superior vs invivo.

The reason for not wanting Invitro would be down to the scarring.  Isn't the main benefit of invivo no scarring, whereas invitro there is some scarring? Correct me if I'm wrong.

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## hellouser

> Arashi,
> Let me explain step by step...
> 1)1475 grafts extracted fom donor.
> 
> 2)175+75=250 grafts utilised for stemcell and dp culture..gone to lab..not used for bisection or implantation.
> 
> 3)Now we are left with1475-250=1225 grafts.
> 
> 4)106 grafts used for dp isolation and implante back at the donor withput bisection as the dermal papilla is used.
> ...


 So if 1,000 grafts are extracted and doubled for a total of 2,000 implanted in the recipient, is the price then calculated for 1,000 grafts or 2,000 grafts?

----------


## 534623

> You're just making yourself look bad at this point man.


 It doesn't make ME bad at all ...

----------


## drnigams

1000 grafts. 



> So if 1,000 grafts are extracted and doubled for a total of 2,000 implanted in the recipient, is the price then calculated for 1,000 grafts or 2,000 grafts?

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

do it hellouser it is good price :Smile: 


> So if 1,000 grafts are extracted and doubled for a total of 2,000 implanted in the recipient, is the price then calculated for 1,000 grafts or 2,000 grafts?

----------


## didi

> do it hellouser it is good price


 
Dr Nigam said its FREE for forum members who signed up before he did. I think that's generous and fair since procedure is still in experimental stage.

----------


## drnigams

gc,
I had explained this earlier..
*No white dots..no scarring with invitro hair doubling.*
Not just invitro and invivo,no white dots and no scarring even in fue...if you use dpcell,stemcell,growth factors and ecm....

Just google and read more about ..the role of dpcells, epidermal stemcells,growth factors and ecm...in wound healing an scar prevention...you will be convinced about no scarring technically...

I used much larger punch, like fue in 15 graft patch test..check the 2months post procedure pics..and let me know ,if you find forget scarring ,even a mark...
What about cotsarelis latest discovery..he landed up finding fgf9 growth factor, while researching on wound healing and hair follicle regen...

Cotsarelis fgf9 growth factor..will have application more importantly in wound healing..

I am in touch with the top researchers on wound healing, those working on scar prevention in burns,i have been studying the role of dpcells,stemcells,growth factors,ecm on wound healing and scar prevention...

Invivo ,the scar is not visible is, because of small diametre punch,needle..

Invitro, even if little larger punch is used...the above mentioned coktail prevents scarring,especially if a follicle regen in donor..that is what cotsarelis study also points to..that if follicle regen happens in a wound ..scar is automatically reduced.

Read jahoda's paper on dp cell and its role in wound healing,read  epidermal and bulge follicle stemcells role in wound healing...

Let me share another interesting fact with you..

At my cosmetic surgery division,handled by my cosmetic surgeon..they were having issues regards..scar in facelift,liposuction etc.

As on today we are the probably only clinic in the world..who extracts 50 grafts from the body or scalp,from the patients undergoing cosmetic surgeries.

We isolate the follicle stemcells,dpcells from these grafts and inject with ecm,prp,growth factor(i have fgf2 since few months now)..and there is virtually no scar at cosmetic surgery incisions,which are bigger incisions than fue punch...

For wound healing and scar prevention..i keep myself updated with research works and findings of burn surgeons,wound healing research scientists...

*This is what we have brought new to HT industry this year in 2013...
1)Invitro hair doubling

2)Scarless FUE/DOUBLING procedures..(while there are people,who are still  waiting for dr wesleys scarless fue...no offence intended..)

3)First clinic to start offering stemcell /dpcell cultured injections ..as cellular hair implants...*
Next in line would be advancements in hm,dpculture,medical topical and orl prescriptions for attacking androgens and microinflammation...

I am confident ..i will introduce my custom made high frequency ultrasound for fut/fue docs..in near future and give eyes to traditional transplants..which i do no more..
I will show you soon..clear ultrasound pics of hair follicle bulb,shaft etc..invivo..this will tremendously help in avoiding transections  in fue/fut and invivo technique
Just look at the history of developments in HT... anti dht was borrowed from urologist as they were treating prostrate..minoxidil was borrowed from cardiologist who were using the same for hypertension...lumigan(bimatoprost) was borrowed from opthalmologist who noticed side effects of bimatoprost while treating glaucoma ..as it developed hair on the eyelashes.
pgd2 etc are borrowed from antiallergy and asthma treatments...

To improve on Wound healing and scar prevention in HT ..i borrowed the wisdom from... the research on stemcell,growth factors,burns.. 




> If I were to even come to see you Dr Nigam I would be more pushed towards Invivo rather than Invitro, despite your results on Invitro being superior vs invivo.
> 
> The reason for not wanting Invitro would be down to the scarring.  Isn't the main benefit of invivo no scarring, whereas invitro there is some scarring? Correct me if I'm wrong.

----------


## Arashi

> It doesn't make ME bad at all ...


 Yes, it DOES make you look bad. A lot of people here have an open mind.  They don't know about Nigams just yet but at least they see that he's putting in great effort at trying to prove his technique. The way he's been documenting Tom's case is nothing short of sublime.

You on the other hand didn't give him a chance from day 1. In fact you're so extreme in your fanboyism for Gho that even when shown pictures of a petridish, you deny what's in it. All you do is swear, insult people and puke your negativity and bitter sarcam in every single corner of this forum. And I'm 100&#37; sure that even if Nigams WOULD prove to work, you'll keep denying it works, even if he turned every single NW7 forum member here into NW1.

Pretty much nobody here is *convinced* Nigams can do that though, we all need to see (a lot of) proof first. But at least we're giving him a chance.

----------


## oppenheimer82

> Yes, it DOES make you look bad. A lot of people here have an open mind.  They don't know about Nigams just yet but at least they see that he's putting in great effort at trying to prove his technique. The way he's been documenting Tom's case is nothing short of sublime.
> 
> You on the other hand didn't give him a chance from day 1. In fact you're so extreme in your fanboyism for Gho that even when shown pictures of a petridish, you deny what's in it. All you do is swear, insult people and puke your negativity and bitter sarcam in every single corner of this forum. And I'm 100% sure that even if Nigams WOULD prove to work, you'll keep denying it works, even if he turned every single NW7 forum member here into NW1.
> 
> Pretty much nobody here is *convinced* Nigams can do that though, we all need to see (a lot of) proof first. But at least we're giving him a chance.


 amen.

----------


## gc83uk

Thanks Dr Nigam, so what is the benefit of doing Invivo over Invitro if any?

I assume your no longer doing Invivo now then? Things are moving fast  :Smile:

----------


## Phatalis

> Yes, it DOES make you look bad. A lot of people here have an open mind.  They don't know about Nigams just yet but at least they see that he's putting in great effort at trying to prove his technique. The way he's been documenting Tom's case is nothing short of sublime.
> 
> You on the other hand didn't give him a chance from day 1. In fact you're so extreme in your fanboyism for Gho that even when shown pictures of a petridish, you deny what's in it. All you do is swear, insult people and puke your negativity and bitter sarcam in every single corner of this forum. And I'm 100% sure that even if Nigams WOULD prove to work, you'll keep denying it works, even if he turned every single NW7 forum member here into NW1.
> 
> Pretty much nobody here is *convinced* Nigams can do that though, we all need to see (a lot of) proof first. But at least we're giving him a chance.


 100% Arashi. Coming in with the truths as always.

----------


## MrBlonde

Dr Nigam

When you talk about extracting 5000 grafts and doubling them to 10,000 grafts with your bisection technique, do the grafts become weaker or thinner than the original strong graft before it was bisected?  does it make them more prone to grafting failure or loss when transplanting them into the recipient area or will they grow full and strong as they did in the donor area?

I imagine that much trauma, removal with punch, bisection, doubling injections and transplanting into new area would be very stressful on the graft, leaving it at risk to failure.

What graft success rate do you stand by?  I imagine it would be hard to get above 95% with the trauma to the graft.

----------


## tom vercetti

we achieve on the first strip around 64&#37; regeneration on day 10th and 66% for the second strip.




Here are the first strip, click to enlarge:



















here are the second part, second strip, click to enlarge:

----------


## hellouser

> Dr Nigam said its FREE for forum members who signed up before he did. I think that's generous and fair since procedure is still in experimental stage.


 I'm willing to pay, the money is not an issue... its the result that worries me more.

At the moment I'm experiencing Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia... and DAMN frequent urination at night (like 5-10 times). Basically my prostate is larger than normal and pushes against the bladder, so whenever I piss, it feels like I haven't fully emptied, so almost immediately after I feel like letting more out. Theres a non-invasive treatment in Israel for this which costs $9,000 and works for about 90&#37; of the patients with great results.

Guess what the pill is for treating BPH?

Finasteride and Saw Palmetto.

 :Mad:

----------


## tom vercetti

> I'm willing to pay, the money is not an issue... its the result that worries me more.
> 
> At the moment I'm experiencing Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia... and DAMN frequent urination at night (like 5-10 times). Basically my prostate is larger than normal and pushes against the bladder, so whenever I piss, it feels like I haven't fully emptied, so almost immediately after I feel like letting more out. Theres a non-invasive treatment in Israel for this which costs $9,000 and works for about 90&#37; of the patients with great results.
> 
> Guess what the pill is for treating BPH?
> 
> Finasteride and Saw Palmetto.


 did you tried pumpkin o&#239;l ? then test you PSA level after 2 months

----------


## hellouser

> did you tried pumpkin oïl ? then test you PSA level after 2 months


 Does it help? I'm not too bother having to go to the bathroom during the day, but at night when I'm trying to fall asleep its really irritating.

----------


## oppenheimer82

> I'm willing to pay, the money is not an issue... its the result that worries me more.
> 
> At the moment I'm experiencing Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia... and DAMN frequent urination at night (like 5-10 times). Basically my prostate is larger than normal and pushes against the bladder, so whenever I piss, it feels like I haven't fully emptied, so almost immediately after I feel like letting more out. Theres a non-invasive treatment in Israel for this which costs $9,000 and works for about 90% of the patients with great results.
> 
> Guess what the pill is for treating BPH?
> 
> Finasteride and Saw Palmetto.


 yes, dr yigal gat and dr menachim goren, they created the gat-goren method to treat varicocele disorders. basically, to restore sperm, testosteron and prostate function. they are brilliant. too bad the procedure is only being done in israel and only by them.

----------


## tom vercetti

> Does it help? I'm not too bother having to go to the bathroom during the day, but at night when I'm trying to fall asleep its really irritating.


 yes definitely.

----------


## hellouser

> yes, dr yigal gat and dr menachim goren, they created the gat-goren method to treat varicocele disorders. basically, to restore sperm, testosteron and prostate function. they are brilliant. too bad the procedure is only being done in israel and only by them.


 Its fine that its in Israel, I have family there so its not a problem going there. Although when money is put towards health, its a great investment... too bad it costs a whopping $9,000 for a 1-2 hour procedure! I could buy a decent used car or that much.... OR put it towards a downpayment for a flat. That and the 12k for an HT with Gho is going to burn a serious hole in my wallet. This is where Dr. Nigam's pricing comes NICELY into play.

I suppose its not all bad, if I opt for both procedures I'll get to see Israel and India.

----------


## hellouser

> yes definitely.


 Is there a type or brand I should look out for?

----------


## tom vercetti

> Is there a type or brand I should look out for?


 No, and I'm from france so its will not be the same. But you need to take a extra virgin pumpkin oil and then keep it at the fridge and take 1 tablespoon per day

Why would you go for a HST when you will have my result in front of you with dr nigam ?  :Wink:

----------


## hellouser

> No, and I'm from france so its will not be the same. But you need to take a extra virgin pumpkin oil and then keep it at the fridge and take 1 tablespoon per day
> 
> *Why would you go for a HST when you will have my result in front of you with dr nigam ?*


 I'm not 100% convinced but I am definitely getting to that point. I just need a little more time with results coming from Dr. Nigam.

But I am following his work closely.

----------


## tom vercetti

> I'm not 100% convinced but I am definitely getting to that point. I just need a little more time with results coming from Dr. Nigam.
> 
> But I am following his work closely.


 Just need to wait few more months and see the result on my hairline.. Hopefully for me, it will make you forgeting Dr Gho forever  :Big Grin:

----------


## Phatalis

> Just need to wait few more months and see the result on my hairline.. Hopefully for me, it will make you forgeting Dr Gho forever


 I have a thing for Gho in August.. but man.... if Nigams proves his technique.. I'm really... really on the  edge right now.

----------


## hellouser

> Just need to wait few more months and see the result on my hairline.. Hopefully for me, it will make you forgeting Dr Gho forever


 Well I'll be following your story for sure!

Thanks for the advice about pumpkin seed oil  :Smile:

----------


## drnigams

gc,
Just think.. how can i be precise with the bisection of the follicle at the exact level, when i do invivo..which is a blind dissection..4mm deep into the skin ,
and have ...hair root/bulb/dp...in both the bisected parts..especially since the root of the follicle is buried normally at the subcutaneous fat...

I could manage the invivo doubling..with invivo blind dissection , by extracting approx.2/3rd of the follicle(not bisection at the root)...and after adding my  stemcells,dp cells,etc,i got regen..
at the recipient...
which was lesser than what i got with invitro...with my 8/9months observation of results with doublings...

But, after bisection in the invitro technique under magnification..my regen percentage increased significantly....as *in case of invitro..i had part of hairbulb in both the bisected follicles...under magnification ,i can get precise point of bisection...*

*There is significant difference in the two bisected follicle fragment in case of invitro versus invivo..*

I wonder.... how can anyone do either invivo or invitro doubling without injecting the stemcells,dpcells....and get good regen at the recipient..

gc.... you all are missing one point..in invivo TECHNIQUE..you all feel happy about 80&#37; regen..
When in fact.... why... should there be ,any problem in DONOR REGEN...IN  case of invivo  technique ... by anyone..

*When the root of the follicle at the donor is intact with it's blood supply..*

What is the use of... monitoring or getting excited about in vivo donor regen.

Infact if it is less than 95 to100%.....IT IS BEYOND MY COMPREHENSION..
I believe the donor regen can be less than 90/100%.. only if someone is doing splitting of follicular units or damaging the follicles in the process of invivo extraction..(kindly explain ..if otherwise)

Yes, in case of invitro..the graft is completely extracted from the donor..hence regen monitoring is understandable....

I am in finalization phase, with an American company,who are creating a custom made high frequency ultrasound for visualizing the hair follicle bulb invivo..

I will inject a contrast into the follicle opening..for better visibility...this ultrasound ..i may pick up with me in october  from San Fransisco..when i will be there, for the conference..

This ultrasound may help me bisect the follicle bulb more precisely..and i will than again do few..  invivo patch test before, if at all i restart invivo doubling..
This ultrasound will also help me inject my stemcells,dp culture more precisely into the telogen bulbs....
I am also in talks with photo microscope manufacturers for visualizing hair bulb,stemcells movement invivo after injection and precise location of targetted follicle morphology.....





> Thanks Dr Nigam, so what is the benefit of doing Invivo over Invitro if any?
> 
> I assume your no longer doing Invivo now then? Things are moving fast

----------


## drnigams

Blonde,
Removal of graft by punch is same as in fue..so no additional trauma..same as in fue..
Yes, when i use to bisect previously... at a higher level..the recipient graft would be slightly thinner than bisected grafts implanted at the donor. 

With my new protocol of bisection at the level of the root of the follicle.. with my early observation of few months ..do not show any difference from fue graft thickness at the similar time period...
 bisected graft implanted at the donor will always be more thicker and robust..as it is implanted at NON AGA scalp and is sorrounded by good quality terminal hair.. 


That is the precise reason ..i implant the superior bisected part with major portion of root  with rest of the follicle with bulge at the recipient...as the recipient is an  AGA area.. which is slick bald or  is surrounded by thinner hair,vellous hair ..

As against donor ,which is  NON AGA scalp , with thick terminal hair all around..

Injections of stemcells ,dp cells,optional growth factors are not given into follicle structure ,but just around it ...and these injections will help to repair the bisected graft and not damage it...cotsarelis is talking about fgf9 growth factor injection around follicle..not for damaging it, but stimulating it..with wounding

Except.. the  one step of bisection..all other injections.. support repair and regen of the graft...
Regen rate will be similar to fue implants..
Yes if i do partial extraction of grafts ,as invivo bisection..there will be thinner grafts at the recipient..which i do no more...


So there is no


> Dr Nigam
> 
> When you talk about extracting 5000 grafts and doubling them to 10,000 grafts with your bisection technique, do the grafts become weaker or thinner than the original strong graft before it was bisected?  does it make them more prone to grafting failure or loss when transplanting them into the recipient area or will they grow full and strong as they did in the donor area?
> 
> I imagine that much trauma, removal with punch, bisection, doubling injections and transplanting into new area would be very stressful on the graft, leaving it at risk to failure.
> 
> What graft success rate do you stand by?  I imagine it would be hard to get above 95% with the trauma to the graft.

----------


## HARIRI

Good answer Dr. Nigam...

----------


## HARIRI

My personal opinion is that Invitro is better and more efficient than Invivo blind technique. There is not much difference if one of the bisected graft will be implanted back to the donor. Invivo is risky and that you can lose some of the grafts, for example out of 200 extracted grafts via Invivo by Dr. Gho, 50 died. So I think Dr. Nigam should concentrate more into Invitro.

----------


## 534623

> I wonder.... how can anyone do either invivo or invitro doubling without injecting the stemcells,dpcells....and get good regen at the recipient..


 Yeah, seems that's still really rocket science - for you ...

----------


## 534623

> I wonder.... how can anyone do either invivo or invitro doubling without injecting the stemcells,dpcells....and get good regen at the recipient..


 Yeah, seems that's still really rocket science - for you ...

By the way - how do you harvest the grafts at all, before you "bisect" them in vitro and under magnification?

Let me guess: 
You extract them VISIBLE like all the other FUE docs out there - and not blind... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## drnigams

im,
The illusionary iron in you..seems to be melting down....

There is difference between extracting a graft(less diametre than fue punch) like an fue,with wider punch(larger diameter than  extracted graft)..and causing  minimal transection ..though blind ,but still safer,as complete graft is extracted with the root,especially with the use of wider punch.

...In contrast to extraction of partial bisected graft with .5/.6mm punch/needle/twblade...which is usually wider than .5/.6mm.. 2/3/4 follicle grafts..and to remain  safe with blind invivo technique...

 im...No new visual  entertaining presentations...off late..you gave my nick name to arashi, in the last presentation of yours...! 


QUOTE=534623;127863]Yeah, seems that's still really rocket science - for you ...

By the way - how do you harvest the grafts at all, before you "bisect" them in vitro and under magnification?

Let me guess: 
You extract them VISIBLE like all the other FUE docs out there - and not blind... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): [/QUOTE]

----------


## gc83uk

> gc,
> Just think.. how can i be precise with the bisection of the follicle at the exact level, when i do invivo..which is a blind dissection..4mm deep into the skin ,
> and have ...hair root/bulb/dp...in both the bisected parts..especially since the root of the follicle is buried normally at the subcutaneous fat...
> 
> in case of invitro..i had part of hairbulb in both the bisected follicles...under magnification ,i can get precise point of bisection...


 If you're asking me how can Gho possibly extract grafts blindly and do so successfully, then I can only say that his patented triple wave needle he uses with the guidance of the hair shaft allows him to bisect at the optimal point.

I suspect you are right in that Gho won't get it right all the time, I don't think that has even been in question, hence the reason why he only guarantees 80% regrowth!

The invitro process sounds interesting, but if it were this easy then why doesn't all the FUE doctors do what you're doing?  Basically extract using a 1mm punch and bisect at the correct point under a microscope.  It sounds so easy!

What would happen if you didn't make any injections afterwards doing the extracting and implanting? We would have FUE sized scars right? And would the bisected grafts still grow?

I wish you could do a 50 grafts patch test on a patient who shaves his head regularly down to a zero or grade 1, so we can easily see the grafts before and afterwards using Invitro procedure (with photos from the correct distance as documented in my own case and less of these super zoomed in photos focusing on 1 FU, to me they seem almost pointless). 

Everything else up to now in terms of patch tests etc has been unverifiable IMO, perhaps the documentation on Tom will prove otherwise.

I hope you can succeed!

----------


## The Alchemist

> If you're asking me how can Gho possibly extract grafts blindly and do so successfully, then I can only say that his patented triple wave needle he uses with the guidance of the hair shaft allows him to bisect at the optimal point.
> 
> I suspect you are right in that Gho won't get it right all the time, I don't think that has even been in question, hence the reason why he only guarantees 80% regrowth!
> 
> The invitro process sounds interesting, but if it were this easy then why doesn't all the FUE doctors do what you're doing?  Basically extract using a 1mm punch and bisect at the correct point under a microscope.  It sounds so easy!
> 
> What would happen if you didn't make any injections afterwards doing the extracting and implanting? We would have FUE sized scars right? And would the bisected grafts still grow?
> 
> I wish you could do a 50 grafts patch test on a patient who shaves his head regularly down to a zero or grade 1, so we can easily see the grafts before and afterwards using Invitro procedure (with photos from the correct distance as documented in my own case and less of these super zoomed in photos focusing on 1 FU, to me they seem almost pointless). 
> ...


 
I wonder, would Dr Nigam be able to demonstrate his in vitro bisection on a few arm or leg hairs?   I realize the hairs there are not exactly equivalent to head hair, but might it be enough for a proof of concept?  They could be implanted and tracked very easily. Getting metrics on the newly grown hairs would be a bit less difficult than it's proving to be on the head.   Or do you think the biology between head and body hairs are too different for this to be proof of anything?

----------


## One

Tom, Boldy, but the website of dr. nigam was not to be ready on July 30th?

----------


## sausage

I thought photos were imminent? obviously not.

----------


## veca

Dr. Nigam, do you have a photo of Wesley??? Can you post that photos?

----------


## drnigams

Veca,
I have wesley's photos,
it is very hectic here,i have not even completed work on my website,as there is virtually no time...
My new premium clinic at the 5 star hotel is getting ready,
Mwamba is coming on 2nd and 3rd september,
few investors are here from USA,talks are in final stage to register my Master franchise distribution company in AMERICA,
3d spheroids dp culture,is an exhaustive work for every patient,
few experiments with different protocols have to be conducted ,
including few tests on efficacy and regrowth potential..... comparison between invivo and invitro doubling....with few bisected samples in the lab in the culture medium.
I am afraid to post any pics which are not of the best quality,

Can mail wesleys pics to you,if you think ok,you can post them at the forum .
Of late, there is no time to have pics clicked under my supervision...
The photographer is  also on  leave.

Not to mention the evil souls,who are desperate to distract my focus from the lab and  the clinic...with special support from the pessimistic forum members..
How scientific are the forum members when they scrutinize my results and technique(which is welcome)....but how unscientific they become and accept anything written against me,  without asking for any proof...

My answer to their HUMILIATION... EMBARRASS THEM... BY PROVING THEM WRONG...





> Dr. Nigam, do you have a photo of Wesley??? Can you post that photos?

----------


## sausage

Dr Nigam, you have not proved anything yet.......so you have to expect skepticism, the photos on your website don't show anything, the negative articles that have appeared have of course caused doubt.

If you can prove something, and have actually come up with something then you will be a hero and you will be getting all our money.

None of us can get behind something which is just yours and a few others words.....that is all they are at the moment....claims.

Those comments you just made about photos, and a photographer being on leave are a bit weak.........anyone can take a photo.

Those statements about investors and setting up in America are HUGE statements......wouldn't anything going to the US need a lot of ethical trials?

----------


## veca

> Veca,
> I have wesley's photos,
> it is very hectic here,i have not even completed work on my website,as there is virtually no time...
> My new premium clinic at the 5 star hotel is getting ready,
> Mwamba is coming on 2nd and 3rd september,
> few investors are here from USA,talks are in final stage to register my Master franchise distribution company in AMERICA,
> 3d spheroids dp culture,is an exhaustive work for every patient,
> few experiments with different protocols have to be conducted ,
> including few tests on efficacy and regrowth potential..... comparison between invivo and invitro doubling....with few bisected samples in the lab in the culture medium.
> ...


 Dr. Nigam, I sent you an e-mail if you can send me a photo of Wesley to my e-mail. I believe in your work, and I am interested in your results, and I believe that there are plenty of forum members who support you. I do not know what other members want from you ... I think they are all so desperate (and I am), so that they find it hard to believe in your work. I think they want to provocate you to be more effort to set stronger evidence. There is also a part of the forum members who are simply rude. That's it! Anyway thank you for the results so far, and I hope that you will cure us. Good luck

----------


## drnigams

Sausage,
Agree with constructive, scientific skepticism.
You all are sitting far off,you have the right to doubt,i also have right to  be optimistic about my work.
Instead on focusing on personalities..why can't we just focus on the specific techniques as possible solutions..like doubling efficacy with different methods,potential of hm injections,potential of 3d spheroids dp cultures.and ofcourse newer therapies proposed by other surgeons and researchers...
Regards, AMERICAN company..it is not about offering hm injections but offering licenses to HT surgeons for doubling technique...
Yes these are only claims...and to prove the same will take time..as i am myself trying to improve..
I cannot do anything about negative comments,unless it is of my patient..when i will go to any extent.... to take care of him..
you will shortly hear from the only two negative comments posted earlier by my patient..who has virtually became my fan...
also you will shortly hear from this tabloid article publisher, an apology....
And the details of my defamation case against this rival doctor...

You may have  rivals ...attacking me anytime...
but how can you expect me to keep spending time to clarify on every question.

Just now you concluded that i am opening a centre in america...when i was talking of something else... 
Yes , i need to prove  a lot...but retrospection is needed from both the sides..

There is difference between..SKEPTICISM..AND ..HUMILIATION....

If i would be a  good businessman ,i would have focused on my website and marketing..not on the forums..

Yes i apologise for the  poor(blurred) photo of 5 and half month result..this patient is coming back on 10th august..and will post better pics of him...that matter could have finished there by asking for the same..
rather than humiliating by hurling stones... 


 QUOTE=sausage;137912]Dr Nigam, you have not proved anything yet.......so you have to expect skepticism, the photos on your website don't show anything, the negative articles that have appeared have of course caused doubt.

If you can prove something, and have actually come up with something then you will be a hero and you will be getting all our money.

None of us can get behind something which is just yours and a few others words.....that is all they are at the moment....claims.

Those comments you just made about photos, and a photographer being on leave are a bit weak.........anyone can take a photo.

Those statements about investors and setting up in America are HUGE statements......wouldn't anything going to the US need a lot of ethical trials?[/QUOTE]

----------


## Arashi

> Not to mention the evil souls,who are desperate to distract my focus from the lab and  the clinic...with special support from the pessimistic forum members..


 I find this a VERY weird quote. Evil souls who are desperate to distract your focus from the lab and clinic ... You make it sound like you're a victim and people are out here just to hurt you. While all we want is proof of what you can do and stop the nonsense and bad comparison photo's. Even your biggest fan, Didi, is now openly doubting you. That's not because he's an 'evil soul' but because you just fail to present trustworthy evidence and for example keep using trickery in your comparison photo's to mislead us. Just stop doing that and post fair comparisons !

People here are not 'evil souls' and really nobody here is out to 'distract your focus'. We just want honest and trustworthy proof and after all this time we still have gotten nothing but promises.

----------


## garethbale

> I find this a VERY weird quote. Evil souls who are desperate to distract your focus from the lab and clinic ... You make it sound like you're a victim and people are out here just to hurt you. While all we want is proof of what you can do and stop the nonsense and bad comparison photo's. Even your biggest fan, Didi, is now openly doubting you. That's not because he's an 'evil soul' but because you just fail to present trustworthy evidence and for example keep using trickery in your comparison photo's to mislead us. Just stop doing that and post fair comparisons !
> 
> People here are not 'evil souls' and really nobody here is out to 'distract your focus'. We just want honest and trustworthy proof and after all this time we still have gotten nothing but promises.


 Have to agree with this.

Dr Nigam, while I appreciate you engage with the community on here, you need to show facts and evidence to back up your claims.  All we have heard so far is about which surgeons are coming to visit you, how busy your clinic is, descriptions of results..etc etc.

As Arashi says, noone on here is out to harm you, all we want is substantiated verified evidence.  If you can provide this the doubters will be turned but as yet nothing have been proven.

I am not trying to have a go at you.  But I would suggest you do not post results until they are complete and can back up your claims.  Blurry photos and poor quality pictures will only serve to make people more skeptical.

Thank you

----------


## gc83uk

To be honest, we just need Dr Nigam to have a NW7 patient with slick scalp, preferably without even any velus hair.  Plenty of these guys are out there, right?  Just drag someone off the street who is slick and give him 1,000,000 Rupees.

I don't understand why Dr Nigam hasn't found/advertised this type of candidate to show case his doubling procedure.

Get that right and it's case closed for doubling and his credibility will shoot through the roof for other more advanced treatments.

----------


## Arashi

> To be honest, we just need Dr Nigam to have a NW7 patient with slick scalp, preferably without even any velus hair.  Plenty of these guys are out there, right?  Just drag someone off the street who is slick and give him 1,000,000 Rupees.
> 
> I don't understand why Dr Nigam hasn't found/advertised this type of candidate to show case his doubling procedure.
> 
> Get that right and it's case closed for doubling and his credibility will shoot through the roof for other more advanced treatments.


 Exactly. Or call OBI and give him $1000 if he posts his photo's. I don't understand why Nigams can't do that. OBI would be THE final proof of his HM technique and would result in planes full of people going to India, IF it showed success. And where are Tom's photo's ? You said you'd post them last sunday. You found the time to post those horrible comparison photo's but couldn't post Tom's ? I just don't understand why it even has to take so long. Just take 2 minutes of your time to look at the photo's and select post the few clearest ones. The fact that you need a lot of time makes it even more suspicious.

----------


## Pentarou

Dr Nigam, with respect, you really need to get the photographs sorted if you want to prove your work and overcome the scepticism. Simply put, the photographs are comparable to those of a forum user who is semi-casually logging their progress using standard treatments e.g. finasteride. Your photographs _really_ need to be comparable in quality and accuracy to 'before and after' photos found on the websites of North American and European hair transplant clinics. I'm afraid that on this matter, presentation is everything.

----------


## justeone

Bloody hell people , I think he gets the point ... Clear comparison pictures

----------


## clandestine

> Bloody hell people , I think he gets the point ... Clear comparison pictures


 Does he though? Have not yet seen a response from the Dr.

----------


## UK_

> Does he though? Have not yet seen a response from the Dr.


 Me either :Confused: 

neversaynever also went missing... no real proof?  Ridiculous if you ask me... We've been following since last year and still nothing solid...

----------


## didi

Dr Nigam

We are not evil souls as you put it, how can you say that. Are we supposed to be impressed with photos you provided? Do you really expect anyone to be blown away by what you presented so far? 

You are making some big claims and you are failing to back them up with solid photographic evidence. 


Playing victim and expect people to support you based on wht you provided is not going to work. Your photos should be crystal clear, same angles, lighting, same person.


Im glad Dr mwamba is coming to see you, positive sign.


May I suggest you advertise FREE doubling procedure+$1000 to any slick bald NW6 who is willing to document progress by coming to your clinic. Do it in Mumbai local papers, out of 20 mil people it will easy to find couple of true slick bald nw6s.
Give them 15 000 grafts with no donor loss and doubters will turn into fans.

Didi

----------


## hellouser

> May I suggest you advertise FREE doubling procedure+$1000 to any slick bald NW6 who is willing to document progress by coming to your clinic. Do it in Mumbai local papers, out of 20 mil people it will easy to find couple of true slick bald nw6s.
> Give them 15 000 grafts with no donor loss and doubters will turn into fans.
> 
> Didi


 Advertising your clinic which uses unauthorized and basically experimental stem cell treatment is a great way to raise flags.

Either what Dr. Nigam is doing is completely legal, or Indian law has loopholes and Nigam has them figured out, or someone with authority to shut down Nigam has been paid off, or the system is broken and nothing actually gets done or noone in India has caught on that could put him out of business.

Regardless of the situation, I really do hope Nigam knows what he's doing with stem cells for hair restoration, I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to see him succeed as I speak for all of us here that I'd like to see a cure.

----------


## sausage

> Yes i apologise for the  poor(blurred) photo of 5 and half month result..this patient is coming back on 10th august..and will post better pics of him...that matter could have finished there by asking for the same..
> rather than humiliating by hurling stones...


 humiliating by hurling stones??

I said that the photos were not very good, and that it looked like the photo had been taken 1st at a short length and then when it had been grown out, that was my opinion on the photos.

That is not humiliating you, it's simply stating my truthful opinion.

Again, I am not going to believe anything until I have seen proof. At the moment it is just words. You are pretty much saying you are curing hairloss, which is a massive thing, it is hard for us to believe that is true as there is rarely positive news in this industry. If you have done it, you will be loved, so forget about any humiliation, that won't matter if you have come up with a significant treatment.......you will be the hero.

----------


## didi

I don't like the fact that dr nigams is struggling so much to prove his doubling technique, it shouldn't be that hard.



You can pay me and I will take care of everything, I will come to Mumbai and find you 5 NW6/7s who are willing to do it, they will get FREE doubling and 1000 buck compensation for their time.

Give them 15-20 000 grafts  in 3-4 sessions over a period of 8 months, 

if no donor loss and they end up with full head of hair  you will be the richest ans most famous man in India, how good is that?



We all want this to work but you have to be more convincing,=wow results

you don't wanna end up like dr gho who failed to prove anything after 8 years of doubling  and his results are pathetic at best

----------


## tom vercetti

Hello,

Im very busy with my work but really I need to just ask you guys something:

How its possible to dont trust dr nigam when he will present a patch test to dr mwamba in september and when I am personally a case study ? How its possible ?

Is someone with a normal brain that want to cheat would do ??? NO !

You will have good quality pictures.. but need to wait for result.. the problem of most of you is you want evidence even before the normal time regrowth of a FUE... 

Just be patient and encourage him to continue in this way

----------


## Arashi

> Hello,
> 
> Im very busy with my work but really I need to just ask you guys something:
> 
> How its possible to dont trust dr nigam when he will present a patch test to dr mwamba in september and when I am personally a case study ? How its possible ?


 The only reason I still have SOME faith in Dr Nigams is your case study, Tom. But even you'll have to admit that uptil now there's 0 evidence of what Nigams can do and it's a real possibility your case fails. I'm not saying it will, for all we know it might succeed (which we're all hoping for), but just saying there's 0 evidence as of today ... And there's always been a LOT of 'funny stuff' going on regarding Dr Nigams, which all doesn't make him too credible or trustworthy ... And ok, I can understand that NeverSayNever is very angry at Dr Nigams for revealing his identity, but OBI ??? Why is he gone ? Why isn't Dr Nigams calling him to offer him $1000 if he posts his photo's ? Cause if OBI had  success, it would be THE final proof of his HM procedure. Yet, OBI never returned and there's still 0 proof as of today ...

----------


## Arashi

And although Boldy seems to be extremely knowledgeable and I have a lot of respect for him, for doing this, even Boldy must admit that it's a bit weird that he's currently the 'lead researcher' regarding the 3d stuff for Nigams. A hobbyist being the lead researcher should succeed where big companies like Aderans failed ? Again, it might work out, Boldy seems to be very good and I do have faith in him, but again ... it's all a bit weird isn't it ? 

We just need to see some proof, that's all. If Dr Nigams would post good, trustworthy photo's, all the critics would shut up and he'd have planes full of people going to India ...

----------


## tom vercetti

> The only reason I still have SOME faith in Dr Nigams is your case study, Tom. But even you'll have to admit that uptil now there's 0 evidence of what Nigams can do and it's a real possibility your case fails. I'm not saying it will, for all we know it might succeed (which we're all hoping for), but just saying there's 0 evidence as of today ... And there's a LOT of 'funny stuff' going on regarding Dr Nigams, which all doesn't make him too credible or trustworthy ...


 Yes I know Arashi, no evidence yet. But "no evidence yet" is just normal.. as he is improving the technique all the time and due to normal time it takes to my hair to regrowth. Just what I ask is to stop to blam him before he can do anything. Peoples just need to wait few months more. Me and boldy was in india not only for us, but also for you. Boldy applied scientific paper protocol in order to enhance culture of DP, and I made the appointment for give you a part of the protocol and even get new evidence with dr mwamba wich is the best hair transplant in europe and a trusty person. 

Peoples will have doubling in europe soon. 3D dp cells in paper made new hair in human skin.. lets see the beautiful sky !

People prefer see the half empty glass rather than the half filled part..

----------


## Arashi

> Yes I know Arashi, no evidence yet. But "no evidence yet" is just normal.. as he is improving the technique all the time and due to normal time it takes to my hair to regrowth. Just what I ask is to stop to blam him before he can do anything. Peoples just need to wait few months more. Me and boldy was in india not only for us, but also for you. Boldy applied scientific paper protocol in order to enhance culture of DP, and I made the appointment for give you a part of the protocol and even get new evidence with dr mwamba wich is the best hair transplant in europe and a trusty person. 
> 
> Peoples will have doubling in europe soon. 3D dp cells in paper made new hair in human skin.. lets see the beautiful sky !
> 
> People prefer see the half empty glass rather than the half filled part..


 So Tom, Dr Nigams shot photo's of your scalp right ? Any idea when he'll be posting them ? Or could you maybe post some photo's yourself ? How's your recipient developing anyway ?

----------


## tom vercetti

> And although Boldy seems to be extremely knowledgeable and I have a lot of respect for him, for doing this, even Boldy must admit that it's a bit weird that he's currently the 'lead researcher' regarding the 3d stuff for Nigams. A hobbyist being the lead researcher should succeed where big companies like Aderans failed ? Again, it might work out, Boldy seems to be very good and I do have faith in him, but again ... it's all a bit weird isn't it ? 
> 
> We just need to see some proof, that's all. If Dr Nigams would post good, trustworthy photo's, all the critics would shut up and he'd have planes full of people going to India ...


 well, science is science, we already have paper that show result on human skin using 3D dp cells.. But need to get clincial trial, safety toxicity study, and also the ethical art of cloning.. so you will get it but not before 2017 / 2020. And also its not the business plan part of companies like aderans.

----------


## Arashi

> well, science is science, we already have paper that show result on human skin using 3D dp cells.. But need to get clincial trial, safety toxicity study, and also the ethical art of cloning.. so you will get it but not before 2017 / 2020. And also its not the business plan part of companies like aderans.


 That's true. Nigams can hopefully bypass all that. Let's hope Boldy can repeat what Jahoda did then !

----------


## tom vercetti

> So Tom, Dr Nigams shot photo's of your scalp right ? Any idea when he'll be posting them ? Or could you maybe post some photo's yourself ? How's your recipient developing anyway ?


 Yes one person did, but only few because dr nigam was not here, but I will take micro pics of my donor anyway and macro of my recipient, no problem. Its too early to speak before the 5 months for doubling, and today is just 2 months..

----------


## Arashi

> Yes one person did, but only few because dr nigam was not here, but I will take micro pics of my donor anyway and macro of my recipient, no problem. Its too early to speak before the 5 months for doubling, and today is just 2 months..


 Yeah 2 months is still very early ... But on the other hand, my regrowth after my HASCI procedure started after 2 months. At first not visible for the naked eye, but I could spot it on photo's. So who knows, maybe there's something to see already ! Would love to see a photo either way Tom ! And thanks for doing all this.

----------


## tom vercetti

Yes possible, I will post and let you judge anyway  :Wink:

----------


## One

> Yes possible, I will post and let you judge anyway


 Please, please, can be summed up in bold and clearly written what has been done in the procedure? (extracted grafts and grafted total, prp, print cells, etc.).

We are all here to work together, but each individual case that is posted by Dr. Nigam or a patient is always extremely confusing, and I'm sorry to repeat myself unprofessional.

However my advice and I hope that is accepted, given that if you post something on the forum is to have it read to others, it would be appropriate to use the criteria to make things neat and orderly. By doing so you gain you and we make ourselves. We all are winners.

I hope you will improve in the future. It 's really important that you manage to make us understand what you do in a clear, if not, the documentation has no value!


Place a clinical case of Koray as an example:


*ASMED Hair Treatments - Dr Koray Erdogan*


*3124 FUE* grafts extracted with manual punch in titanium, diameter 0.7 - 0.9 mm.


Engravings by: custom made blades, lateral slit


*412* Single grafts

*911* Double grafts

*1801* Multiple grafts

----------


## Boldy

> And although Boldy seems to be extremely knowledgeable and I have a lot of respect for him, for doing this, even Boldy must admit that it's a bit weird that he's currently the 'lead researcher' regarding the 3d stuff for Nigams. A hobbyist being the lead researcher should succeed where big companies like Aderans failed ? Again, it might work out, Boldy seems to be very good and I do have faith in him, but again ... it's all a bit weird isn't it ? 
> 
> We just need to see some proof, that's all. If Dr Nigams would post good, trustworthy photo's, all the critics would shut up and he'd have planes full of people going to India ...


 Hey Arashi,
I think if I staid passive, then the same would have happened anyway, but maybe 5-8 years later. The thing is there are so many papers out there(I can show you my dropbox if you want, just register at *******.com private forum, you're welcome there  :Smile:  ), that it takes a full man job to figure it out. reading these papers and knowing what could be possible,  without taking any action, is something I can not deal with.. 

Regarding nigam, I think someone who runs 2 clinics and 6-8 patients per day, is to busy to do both, research and  managing the clinic. You can't be perfect in both. His lab processes his requests,exactly as he wants it, now they are aware of all the 3d happening and studies done on humans, they will continue that.


I think you have to figure out what exactly you wan't to see from nigams. His doubling? His oldschool Hm method or what is it exactly?

if its his doubling, then you can only do 1 thing: waiting for the users like tom or wesley or maybe others that pass the 6-8 months. it doesn't make sense to ask a daily proof, hair cycles don't go that fast. It does not make sense to keep wining, about people who disappeared, or are just 2 months after procedure  :Smile: (don't take it personal, I'm talking in general)

If you want to see results for 3d culture protocol, then its the same story, time will tell. materials have to arrive and protocols have to be tested (in vitro first). Cells need their time to grow, various compositions of cells, have to be tested to build the perfect scaffold.

regarding me that has to be the proactive one in this field.. Yes its sad, that this is not happened 10 years ago, by other people.. 




My advice for you, give your self some more the time, until things are more certain. try to maintain as much as possible in the meantime (slow down AGA with the proven drugs, if your body tolerates it)

tom's and wesleys doublings will show us the answer within 6 months.

see you on *******.

----------


## mari0s

> If you want to see results for 3d culture protocol, then its the same story, time will tell. materials have to arrive and protocols have to be tested (in vitro first). Cells need their time to grow, various compositions of cells, have to be tested to build the perfect scaffold.


 I'm interested in 3d culture too cause i belive mesenchymal stem cells could do a lot to "protect" the existent follicles against the advancing of aga, in another thread i've tried to ipotize a timeline but i'm not a biologist so i don't know if i have been to optimistic




> "Hi Boldy first i would thank you to be on proactive side of the problem and to release this update.
> Are you confident enough to estabilish a timeline? 
> In middle of august 3d supplies should arrive then it will required 6 weeks- 2 months for cells expansion, then they could try different 3d protocols along the fine tuning of 2d protocols, i dont know this part how much time required.
> 
> Then it could be final tested on people and wait the canonical 6 months for results (the beard dp should be on project stage so its far away for now)
> By July 2014 we could expect to see some results on people in your opinion? "


 Regarding ******* i've tried to register but they seems to not accepting anyone  :Frown:

----------


## The Alchemist

> The only reason I still have SOME faith in Dr Nigams is your case study, Tom. But even you'll have to admit that uptil now there's 0 evidence of what Nigams can do and it's a real possibility your case fails. I'm not saying it will, for all we know it might succeed (which we're all hoping for), but just saying there's 0 evidence as of today ... And there's always been a LOT of 'funny stuff' going on regarding Dr Nigams, which all doesn't make him too credible or trustworthy ... And ok, I can understand that NeverSayNever is very angry at Dr Nigams for revealing his identity, but OBI ??? Why is he gone ? Why isn't Dr Nigams calling him to offer him $1000 if he posts his photo's ? Cause if OBI had  success, it would be THE final proof of his HM procedure. Yet, OBI never returned and there's still 0 proof as of today ...


 These are good points.  Furthermore, if OBI had good results we would be hearing from him and he wouldn't have cut off contact with Nigam. He would of signed up again for another treatment. I was sceptical of him to begin with because he showed up on the scene about the same time as Nigam.

And the same goes for Neversaynever.  If he was getting more hair from a revolutionary treatment provided by Nigam, he would put aside his differences with him.  For christ's sakes, if Nigam gave NSN a treatment that worked to provied either greatly expanded or unlimited donor, he could be banging his mother and NSN would forgive him.

They didn't get results - i think that much is obvious.

----------


## sausage

So we should be seeing some amazing results in 5 months time......

I'll wait for these amazing results.......going to be interesting.

----------


## didi

> These are good points.  Furthermore, if OBI had good results we would be hearing from him and he wouldn't have cut off contact with Nigam. He would of signed up again for another treatment. I was sceptical of him to begin with because he showed up on the scene about the same time as Nigam.
> 
> And the same goes for Neversaynever.  If he was getting more hair from a revolutionary treatment provided by Nigam, he would put aside his differences with him.  For christ's sakes, if Nigam gave NSN a treatment that worked to provied either greatly expanded or unlimited donor, he could be banging his mother and NSN would forgive him.
> 
> They didn't get results - i think that much is obvious.


 
GC can send email to neversaynever? 

So what if Dr Nigam revealed  NSNs identity, ok guy is pissed off, damage is done? If NSN had good results he would go back for more and he could get it for free since dr nigams 'screwd' him over?
its not like a big deal..then now boldy is pissed off bc dr anjeli made some baseless accusations and has to give up on project...somehow it affects him


Maybe it was all staged, its very mysterious and then there is OBI guy


I don't like when forum members disappear after enthusiastic start

are they even alive?

----------


## bananana

> These are good points.  Furthermore, if OBI had good results we would be hearing from him and he wouldn't have cut off contact with Nigam. He would of signed up again for another treatment. I was sceptical of him to begin with because he showed up on the scene about the same time as Nigam.
> 
> And the same goes for Neversaynever.  If he was getting more hair from a revolutionary treatment provided by Nigam, he would put aside his differences with him.  For christ's sakes, if Nigam gave NSN a treatment that worked to provied either greatly expanded or unlimited donor, he could be banging his mother and NSN would forgive him.
> 
> They didn't get results - i think that much is obvious.


 We dont know that, you think they wouldnt come screaming in public that the doctor is a scam? Anyone would surely do that.

We just dont know what really happened!

*Dr Nigam*, if you're reading this, I know you're very busy, but please can you try to contact *OBI* or *NSN*, you know their names and contact numbers. 

A lot of people on these forums would be calmed down. 


Thank you.

----------


## sausage

> I don't like when forum members disappear after enthusiastic start
> 
> are they even alive?


 I sure wouldn't offer myself up as a human Guinea Pig......can't believe some people do it.

----------


## hiilikeyourbeard

> I sure wouldn't offer myself up as a human Guinea Pig......can't believe some people do it.


 desperation causes people to do some crazy shit man.

so I guess I'll see you guys in 5 months

----------


## gc83uk

> GC can send email to neversaynever? 
> 
> So what if Dr Nigam revealed  NSNs identity, ok guy is pissed off, damage is done? If NSN had good results he would go back for more and he could get it for free since dr nigams 'screwd' him over?
> its not like a big deal..then now boldy is pissed off bc dr anjeli made some baseless accusations and has to give up on project...somehow it affects him
> 
> 
> Maybe it was all staged, its very mysterious and then there is OBI guy
> 
> 
> ...


 Didi, I'm surprised by you, you seem to have had the biggest change of opinion here.  It's the equivalent of Iron Man admitting his Gho hairs are currently 1 hair grafts and hopefully they'll become 2.  lol

On a serious note, yes I'll email NSN, but I have the feeling that he no longer wants to be contacted, so I'll just do it the once.

This Tom case... In order to see how successful it's been we need good before and after donor pictures.  Dr Nigam has emailed me over a good 10 or 20 pics of Tom's donor area, but they are less than average in terms of quality unfortunately.

Can someone please confirm exactly which photo we are using for the pre extraction sample area?  I'm assuming it's the one with a large red circle on Dr Nigams site.

Tom, are you able to take a shot of this exact same donor area shaved down? It's only a small area right, so shouldn't ruin your looks  :Smile:

----------


## idontwant2bebalding

> GC can send email to neversaynever? 
> 
> So what if Dr Nigam revealed  NSNs identity, ok guy is pissed off, damage is done? If NSN had good results he would go back for more and he could get it for free since dr nigams 'screwd' him over?
> its not like a big deal..then now boldy is pissed off bc dr anjeli made some baseless accusations and has to give up on project...somehow it affects him
> 
> 
> Maybe it was all staged, its very mysterious and then there is OBI guy
> 
> 
> ...


 
People drop off the face of the forums for various reasons. Bryan did. He just stopped posting one day. It happens.

----------


## tom vercetti

Its more easy to people to disappear when they are happy with result.. its like they turn the page.. that what happen with NSN.. he just came back to dr nigam to ask fo new procedure and get DPs cells.. This guy is just nasty and want to take advantage fom dr nigam. What he did is unfair and not gentleman at all. Be sure guys, I will never do the same.. Always stay here for you and explain you what I think of my own case study.

In september I will stay a week and we will shave my dono again and then take lot of pictures I can promise you. 

What I can also say is that in few months we will have result on my case I think. Just question of patience. I never seen someone improves things every week like do dr nigam. 

Dont forget one thing: its in the interest of dr nigam to make you happy... Why he would cheat ? the truth will be in the light very soon.. but people here seems to be very depressed and to look at the forum every day.. I feel sorry for you who are in that case. But please trust me I will do my best to be sure you will get full light on my case study, and again if dr mwamba is coming to meet dr nigam, its not for nothing.. He will maybe make his own test... just saying..

----------


## LMS

> Its more easy to people to disappear when they are happy with result.. its like they turn the page.. that what happen with NSN.. he just came back to dr nigam to ask fo new procedure and get DPs cells.. This guy is just nasty and want to take advantage fom dr nigam. What he did is unfair and not gentleman at all. Be sure guys, I will never do the same.. Always stay here for you and explain you what I think of my own case study.
> 
> In september I will stay a week and we will shave my dono again and then take lot of pictures I can promise you. 
> 
> What I can also say is that in few months we will have result on my case I think. Just question of patience. I never seen someone improves things every week like do dr nigam. 
> 
> Dont forget one thing: its in the interest of dr nigam to make you happy... Why he would cheat ? the truth will be in the light very soon.. but people here seems to be very depressed and to look at the forum every day.. I feel sorry for you who are in that case. But please trust me I will do my best to be sure you will get full light on my case study, and again if dr mwamba is coming to meet dr nigam, its not for nothing.. He will maybe make his own test... just saying..


 Wait are you saying NSN came back to DR nigam asking for further treatment? IF thats the case and I was Dr Nigam I'd tell him to post his results or get lost haha

----------


## tom vercetti

> Wait are you saying NSN came back to DR nigam asking for further treatment? IF thats the case and I was Dr Nigam I'd tell him to post his results or get lost haha


 Yes I'm serious as im often in contact with dr nigam.. I really asked him to not accept.. I know it's crazy but this NSN is really a shame. He didnt give his feedback / pictures he should have been, just disappear, but 5 months later he got result more and more and just want continue as he wanted to do initially (if you remember at the beginning he planned to do that until he get full head of hair). As I said I cant accept injustice, and in that case it is.

----------


## Thinning@30

If Dr. Nigam is confident in his treatment, why doesn't he just ask patients to pay a deposit that will be released when they provide him with updated results?

----------


## tom vercetti

> If Dr. Nigam is confident in his treatment, why doesn't he just ask patients to pay a deposit that will be released when they provide him with updated results?


 because NSN was a "senior member" of forum, and trusty person, until he get his free treatment.

----------


## tom vercetti

Just to give some news from dr nigam:

He is developing a new technique of hair doubling and has even tested on boldy his first version. In the coming months, we will see impressive result in terms of doubling. The difference will be that he will be able to have graft of 3 and 4 hairs.. as in fue.. If you remember this was the only problem of the hair doubling and dr gho pocedure.. Now dr nigam can go ahead of that. And this time I advised him to not disclose anuthing on the forum as many HT Professional are around. 

Really guy sky is more and more clear

----------


## Thinning@30

> Originally Posted by Thinning@30 View Post 
> If Dr. Nigam is confident in his treatment, why doesn't he just ask patients to pay a deposit that will be released when they provide him with updated results? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				because NSN was a "senior member" of forum, and trusty person, until he get his free treatment.


 I wasn't suggesting he treat patients for free.  He could charge for procedures, but still ask for a deposit that will be returned when patient comes back to have pictures taken of the results or supplies the doctor 
those pictures.  This isn't some bizarre new practice.  Other HT doctors do this.

I have a tough time believing that Nigam's patients are all so blissed out over their results and newfound self-confidence that they can't be bothered to return for pictures or update the community on their progress.

----------


## tom vercetti

> I wasn't suggesting he treat patients for free.  He could charge for procedures, but still ask for a deposit that will be returned when patient comes back to have pictures taken of the results or supplies the doctor 
> those pictures.  This isn't some bizarre new practice.  Other HT doctors do this.
> 
> I have a tough time believing that Nigam's patients are all so blissed out over their results and newfound self-confidence that they can't be bothered to return for pictures or update the community on their progress.


 I know what you was suggesting.. But I replied you that dr nigam thought make a system of deposit wasnt necessary.. I would have done the same anyway. just few people are just asshole.

----------


## mari0s

Tom just of curiosity how many injections did you take? I was reading on this patent
http://www.google.com/patents/US20110305671 that in their protocol the made until 100 injection for cm2!! (i was so naive to think it would be at max 1 for cm2)

assuming 10 injections for cm2 and a scalp of 80cm2 we talk of 800 injections and more, to be onest the numbers is quite scared.

"In one aspect of the invention, the number of injections is 5 to 100 injections per square centimeter of the scalp, optionally 10 to 50 injections per square centimeter. In another aspect, 10 or 15 injections per square centimeter are performed. In another aspect of the invention, up to 50 or 60 injections per square centimeter are performed"

----------


## Desmond84

Yeah Mario, if Histogen, Replicel or Aderans ever come out we will need over 1000 injections to cover the NW5 area!

I know some patients received those numbers in the Intercytex trials, which is scary to say the least...no pain no gain!

I'd do it though if it proves to be safe though...half an hour of suffering for a decade of happiness

----------


## veca

> Yeah Mario, if Histogen, Replicel or Aderans ever come out we will need over 1000 injections to cover the NW5 area!
> 
> I know some patients received those numbers in the Intercytex trials, which is scary to say the least...no pain no gain!
> 
> I'd do it though if it proves to be safe though...half an hour of suffering for a decade of happiness


 Desmond84, what do you think about the safety of Dr. Nigams procedure?

----------


## mari0s

> Yeah Mario, if Histogen, Replicel or Aderans ever come out we will need over 1000 injections to cover the NW5 area!
> 
> I know some patients received those numbers in the Intercytex trials, which is scary to say the least...no pain no gain!
> 
> I'd do it though if it proves to be safe though...half an hour of suffering for a decade of happiness


 Hi, nor Tom nor Wesley have spoken about this number so i was curios of how many have actually taken. :P 
I wish it would be required only half an hour but i'm afraid at least two days. Replicel have develop a new kind of syringe but i don't know if could be really useful in this kind of matter.
http://rls.redrocketblastoff.com/pro...i-02-injector/

About safety, here in Italy a huge mess happen when Stamina Foundation has been allowed to use mesenchymal cells from bone marrow, so far no one showed problems of any kind. Replicel and aderans use mesenchymal cells form DP which have proven to be safe so far (they have more than 10 years of trials on their back)

About the patent i've linked i have noticed that has been registered more than 2 yrs ago under Alvi Armani who is (was?) a HT surgeon  and show a complete temporal restoration (in terms of quantity, i don't know about density)  so why they don't have never offered to their patients? Maybe the HT business is more profitable, we should remember before start complain about Nigam every time

----------


## Arashi

So Tom, on HS, you stated that Dr Nigams was 'too busy' to make pictures. Can you maybe shoot some pictures yourself then of your recipient and post them ? Thanks !!

----------


## Boldy

> so why they don't have never offered to their patients? Maybe the HT business is more profitable, we should remember before start complain about Nigam every time


 Indeed mari0s, the thing is, why would you invest, and take ricks, if you have already a successful running clinic?  regarding arvid, he has a very successful clinic line, nigams, has already 2 full clinics with 6-8 patients per day, however he still invests allot in improving the current techniques.

People don't seem to see this fact.

3d culture is to time consuming(the process would be approximately 8-10 weeks per patient), calculated per hour, its much smarter to make money with a HT... very sad that. the business are there just for money.. something we should not forget.



also, not to forget, in india you wont have the regulations issues, that you have in europe/us. 

I have received my pics from nigams, and I think I will have time today to make my post, about my temporal hairline restoration, we used some different approach, than what he used to its a experiment that looks good so far.


Boldy

----------


## tom vercetti

> Tom just of curiosity how many injections did you take? I was reading on this patent
> http://www.google.com/patents/US20110305671 that in their protocol the made until 100 injection for cm2!! (i was so naive to think it would be at max 1 for cm2)
> 
> assuming 10 injections for cm2 and a scalp of 80cm2 we talk of 800 injections and more, to be onest the numbers is quite scared.
> 
> "In one aspect of the invention, the number of injections is 5 to 100 injections per square centimeter of the scalp, optionally 10 to 50 injections per square centimeter. In another aspect, 10 or 15 injections per square centimeter are performed. In another aspect of the invention, up to 50 or 60 injections per square centimeter are performed"


 I dont know how much.. cant say.. ith such a protocol you are "half sleep" as you know.. But it was a lot and slowly injected. The patent dont learn us anything.. they just took a large range.

Actually I feel also very concern about the injection protocol, especially for the dp if there is a specialist in pharma here maybehe can give his mind about is it possible to make a vehicule and then reach a large area every injection.

Any idea desmond ?

@Arashi, yes for sure, I will post macro pics as you want no problem. But result is the same than before.

----------


## Desmond84

> Desmond84, what do you think about the safety of Dr. Nigams procedure?


 In terms of safety, there are TWO concerns:

*1) Safety of DP cells expanded in culture and reintroduced in the dermal layer:* as Mario mentioned the 2D DP expansion method has been tested in humans by Intercytex and Aderans since 2004 with no serious adverse events reported and both companies managed to finish both their Phase 1 and 2 trials without any major concerns...which is GREAT NEWS  :Smile:  The jury is still out there on the 3D spheroidal method

*2) Safety of Dr Nigam's DP expansion:* This is where Boldy's expertise come into play...when dealing with Biological therapies 60&#37; of a therapy's efficacy and risk of side effects is based on method of manufacture! As long as we can be assured by Boldy (and hopefully other Doctors such as Dr Cole) that Dr Nigam's laboratory is state of the art with up to date GMP and GLP practices then we can be almost certain that there is NOT much risk of doing it in Mumbai! The "Good Manufacturing Practice" and "Good Laboratory Practice" guidelines have just been updated to include manufacturing of biologicals which is a very complex process, where slight changes in storage or culturing method may lead to a completely different final product.





> About the patent i've linked i have noticed that has been registered more than 2 yrs ago under Alvi Armani who is (was?) a HT surgeon  and show a complete temporal restoration (in terms of quantity, i don't know about density)  so why they don't have never offered to their patients? Maybe the HT business is more profitable, we should remember before start complain about Nigam every time


 How sad is this! But don't worry guys, if the science is right and it actually works, it will happen one way or another...





> Indeed mari0s, the thing is, why would you invest, and take ricks, if you have already a successful running clinic?  regarding arvid, he has a very successful clinic line, nigams, has already 2 full clinics with 6-8 patients per day, however he still invests allot in improving the current techniques.
> 
> People don't seem to see this fact.
> 
> 3d culture is to time consuming(the process would be approximately 8-10 weeks per patient), calculated per hour, its much smarter to make money with a HT... very sad that. the business are there just for money.. something we should not forget.
> 
> 
> also, not to forget, in india you wont have the regulations issues, that you have in europe/us. 
> 
> ...


 
Dr Nigam's efforts should be watched very closely...it is the most interesting story to happen in the past 5 years at least!

I personally love his charismatic attitude...time will also tell if his efforts will work...the 3D DP culturing combined with beard DP culturing is a radical idea that definitely points to the fact that he's here to be taken seriously and wants to offer something better! 

And I say, good on this guy...let's give him a chance and not de-fame him before he even gets a chance to produce the results...

July 2014 will be make or break for a lot of these upcoming treatments such as Replicel, CB-03-01 and most probably Dr Nigam's efforts...

We just have to be patient once more and see what comes of these efforts.





> I dont know how much.. cant say.. ith such a protocol you are "half sleep" as you know.. But it was a lot and slowly injected. The patent dont learn us anything.. they just took a large range.
> 
> Actually I feel also very concern about the injection protocol, especially for the dp but we would need to 
> 
> Any idea desmond ?


 Tom...Aderans came up with a refined technique for injection of DP cells and got their "pen" system approved! I think you can even purchase it....let me do a bit of research...I'll get back to you

----------


## Desmond84

Oh also Tom could you *please* take a lot of photos NOW or in the next few days, so we can see if these injections had any effect in the next few months! And btw I didn't get to say this before, thank you so much for all your efforts brother...I have a lot of respect for ppl like you and Boldy who are actually trying actively to find a cure rather than sitting at home sobbing over this mess! 

I'm wishing you the very best and really hope these treatment protocols work out  :Wink: 

Looking forward to seeing your mohawk brother

----------


## veca

> Indeed mari0s, the thing is, why would you invest, and take ricks, if you have already a successful running clinic?  regarding arvid, he has a very successful clinic line, nigams, has already 2 full clinics with 6-8 patients per day, however he still invests allot in improving the current techniques.
> 
> People don't seem to see this fact.
> 
> 3d culture is to time consuming(the process would be approximately 8-10 weeks per patient), calculated per hour, its much smarter to make money with a HT... very sad that. the business are there just for money.. something we should not forget.
> 
> 
> 
> also, not to forget, in india you wont have the regulations issues, that you have in europe/us. 
> ...


 Boldy I appreciate your knowledge and expertise in this field of medicine. You were at the clinic with Dr. Nigam, you've seen it all, and you're part of the process. Can you give me your odgovoiti a question regarding the safety of the procedure. Are there side effects or a big or a small risk? Thank you in advance for your reply;-)

----------


## Boldy

> Boldy I appreciate your knowledge and expertise in this field of medicine. You were at the clinic with Dr. Nigam, you've seen it all, and you're part of the process. Can you give me your odgovoiti a question regarding the safety of the procedure. Are there side effects or a big or a small risk? Thank you in advance for your reply;-)


 the head Lab worker is a talented professional without doubts. and the protocols  and guidelines don't differ from Europe. the lab seme to be under supervision of the fda that checks regular there.

regarding safety its a hard questions. my believe everything, every medicine has its risk. The things we know is that mesenchymal dermal cells are extensively tested on human around the world without known sides (as fare literature describes).autologous (your own cells), expanded, and dose depended injected back. that latter part should be done with full caution of course.


the difference between 2d/3d culture = that 3d comes nearby vivo environment. cells can feed each other with signals and can  maintain this way their instinctive properties.


You will not hear me say cell therapy  is 100&#37; safe. that is not possible.  that's the same like I would say the following:  paracetamol is safe for everyone. that is simply not true, there are always people who have adverse effects from that drug or even worse.

the good thing, I have noticed, first day I arrived at nigams, even before discussing the procedure what I wanted, like ht, doubling or hm, they took a full blood for analyses.. its at least something, they check the blood levels beforehand.


My word is cell therapy remains experimental at this date, and experimental means we have no certainty. even companies that pass all the 3 trial phases, it says not everything. there is no guarantee, however, I think cell therapy will be more and more a solution for various diseases in the future. its called regenerative medecine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_medicine

----------


## veca

> the head Lab worker is a talented professional without doubts. and the protocols  and guidelines don't differ from Europe. the lab seme to be under supervision of the fda that checks regular there.
> 
> regarding safety its a hard questions. my believe everything, every medicine has its risk. The things we know is that mesenchymal dermal cells are extensively tested on human around the world without known sides (as fare literature describes).autologous (your own cells), expanded, and dose depended injected back. that latter part should be done with full caution of course.
> 
> 
> the difference between 2d/3d culture = that 3d comes nearby vivo environment. cells can feed each other with signals and can  maintain this way their instinctive properties.
> 
> 
> You will not hear me say cell therapy  is 100% safe. that is not possible.  that's the same like I would say the following:  paracetamol is safe for everyone. that is simply not true, there are always people who have adverse effects from that drug or even worse.
> ...


 Thank you for your response, I appreciate it.

----------


## DepressedByHairLoss

> Hi, nor Tom nor Wesley have spoken about this number so i was curios of how many have actually taken. :P 
> I wish it would be required only half an hour but i'm afraid at least two days. Replicel have develop a new kind of syringe but i don't know if could be really useful in this kind of matter.
> http://rls.redrocketblastoff.com/pro...i-02-injector/
> 
> About safety, here in Italy a huge mess happen when Stamina Foundation has been allowed to use mesenchymal cells from bone marrow, so far no one showed problems of any kind. Replicel and aderans use mesenchymal cells form DP which have proven to be safe so far (they have more than 10 years of trials on their back)
> 
> About the patent i've linked i have noticed that has been registered more than 2 yrs ago under Alvi Armani who is (was?) a HT surgeon  and show a complete temporal restoration (in terms of quantity, i don't know about density)  so why they don't have never offered to their patients? Maybe the HT business is more profitable, we should remember before start complain about Nigam every time


 Wow Mario, are you saying that Dr. Armani has a method to restore temporal hair regrowth at the cellular level yet is just sitting on this patent and not doing anything to essentially bring a much improved hair regrowth method to hair loss sufferers?

----------


## hellouser

> Wow Mario, are you saying that Dr. Armani has a method to restore temporal hair regrowth at the cellular level yet is just sitting on this patent and not doing anything to essentially bring a much improved hair regrowth method to hair loss sufferers?


 This is definitely something that should be on our radar!!!!

Desmond, comments?!

----------


## mari0s

> Wow Mario, are you saying that Dr. Armani has a method to restore temporal hair regrowth at the cellular level yet is just sitting on this patent and not doing anything to essentially bring a much improved hair regrowth method to hair loss sufferers?


 The patent show a +114&#37; of regrowth, with a hair density passing from 100 to over 200 hair for cm2 (the average density in a scalp not affected from aga).
Of course there could be other reasons to not be doing anything, maybe the majority of new hair were vellus or could be related to the fact that Armani was force to resign is licence due to unethical reasons, who knows

----------


## hellouser

> The patent show a +114% of regrowth, with a hair density passingo from 100 to over 200 hair for cm2 (the average density in a scalp not affected from aga).
> Of course there could be other reasons to not doing anything, maybe the majority of new hair were vellus or could be related to the fact that Armani was force to resign is licence due to unethical reasons, who knows


 Where are you seeing this patent and those numbers? Do you have a link?

----------


## DepressedByHairLoss

Yeah, I'd love to see a link for the patent and those outstanding numbers.  Matter of fact, I think this patent/discovery deserves a thread of its own.

----------


## mari0s

already link it two pages ago, msg 1139  :Wink:

----------


## dipship31

_The hair density in the left temporal area (receiving cells and growth factors only) showed a quick increase (96% compared to day 0) at week 3 post-injection; 3-6 weeks reaching a plateau; 6-8 weeks further increasing to reach 114% at week 8 post-injection (FIG. 6, solid line). The hair density in the right temporal area (receiving the mixture of cells and growth factors and hyaluronic acid gel) gradually increased by 58% at week 3, 86% at week 6, and 111% at week 8 post-injection (FIG. 6, dotted line)._

whoa

----------


## hellouser

> The patent show a +114% of regrowth, with a hair density passing from 100 to over 200 hair for cm2 (the average density in a scalp not affected from aga).
> Of course there could be other reasons to not be doing anything, maybe the majority of new hair were vellus or could be related to the fact that Armani was force to resign is licence due to unethical reasons, who knows


 


> Tom just of curiosity how many injections did you take? I was reading on this patent
> http://www.google.com/patents/US20110305671 that in their protocol the made until 100 injection for cm2!! (i was so naive to think it would be at max 1 for cm2)
> 
> assuming 10 injections for cm2 and a scalp of 80cm2 we talk of 800 injections and more, to be onest the numbers is quite scared.
> 
> "In one aspect of the invention, the number of injections is 5 to 100 injections per square centimeter of the scalp, optionally 10 to 50 injections per square centimeter. In another aspect, 10 or 15 injections per square centimeter are performed. In another aspect of the invention, up to 50 or 60 injections per square centimeter are performed"


 Why is this a patent? 

They obviously were able to get full density back for a patient... so now what, they need clinical trials to bring it to market? Or not?

----------


## hellouser

Some info on one of the doctors from the published patent:

http://www.alviarmani.com/about/dr-a...i-message.aspx

----------


## sausage

Was this Armani guy.......only able to get temples to grow? What about the rest of the head?

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

it doesnt make sense not to work behind temples it works everywhere there is hair   :Smile:  :Smile:  :Smile: :


WE NEED INFO ON THIS NOW


> Was this Armani guy.......only able to get temples to grow? What about the rest of the head?

----------


## sausage

All the patenting stuff happend in 2011...I don't know if it did get a patent.......what has happend since?

This company just offer hair transplants if you go on their website.

----------


## greatjob!

Isn't this the same Armani that was performing very aggressive strip hair transplants on very young guys exhausting their donor with a NW 0 hairline, then he switched to FUE and got terrible yield and results? I don't even think he performs transplants himself anymore he just created some sort of hair transplant franchise company. He has about as much credibility with me as Bosley, I would not put too much stock in this or get my hopes up,

----------


## idontwant2bebalding

> _The hair density in the left temporal area (receiving cells and growth factors only) showed a quick increase (96% compared to day 0) at week 3 post-injection; 3-6 weeks reaching a plateau; 6-8 weeks further increasing to reach 114% at week 8 post-injection (FIG. 6, solid line). The hair density in the right temporal area (receiving the mixture of cells and growth factors and hyaluronic acid gel) gradually increased by 58% at week 3, 86% at week 6, and 111% at week 8 post-injection (FIG. 6, dotted line)._
> 
> whoa


 Is this for cancer prevention?

http://www.nature.com/news/simple-mo...cancer-1.13236


> The researchers suspected that the long HA molecules formed a tight cage around cells, preventing tumour cells from replicating unchecked and essentially nipping 'pre-cancers' in the bud. In tissue-culture experiments, the cells of naked mole rats could be made cancerous by blocking the gene that encodes HA or by increasing levels of a protein that recycles the sugar. Those cells, when implanted under the skin of mice, formed tumours easily.

----------


## Arashi

> @Arashi, yes for sure, I will post macro pics as you want no problem. But result is the same than before.


 So, Tom, any time to post the pics ? Would be much appreciated !

----------


## bananana

*Ok, this is it.
*
If Boldy and Tom's experiment goes well, I'm the next forum member heading there. 

I believed in Nigam since the beginning, and frankly, I'm tired from all these experiments in DYI arrangement.

Currently I'm on MSM/VIT C + dermaroller + divine herbal oil. 
I've seen stabilisation over the last 2 years, BUT NO REGROWTH.  :Frown: 

I'm thinking of just trying minox + roller but that is it. 

I'm NW 3V diffuse or something similar, but I mask it to NW1. 
My dad is NW 5A, I'm probably headed there.

----------


## Axel

There's huge expectation with Dr Nigam.. I just hope he hires the photographer who did the pics of the dermarroller study since it was done in Mumbai as well!  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## hellouser

> There's huge expectation with Dr Nigam.. I just hope he hires the photoshop artist who did the pics of the dermarroller study since it was done in Mumbai as well!


 Fixed for comedic value.

----------


## Arashi

> *Ok, this is it.
> *
> If Boldy and Tom's experiment goes well, I'm the next forum member heading there. 
> 
> I believed in Nigam since the beginning, and frankly, I'm tired from all these experiments in DYI arrangement.
> 
> Currently I'm on MSM/VIT C + dermaroller + divine herbal oil. 
> I've seen stabilisation over the last 2 years, BUT NO REGROWTH. 
> 
> ...


 You did follow everything from the beginning ? I think it's important to remember:

1) When Dr Nigams came to this board, he posted photoshopped patient results on his site. He later said it was his webdesigner who went rogue and did this on his own. http://postimg.org/image/ju8l872sn/ and this one: http://postimg.org/image/eo3qhea5x/
2) When Dr Nigams got confronted by the large amount of complaints regarding his weight clinic he lied about his clinic being his wife's (or he lied on Indian television when he claimed it was his)
3) Dr Nigams once posted a patient photo showing 3 months time between pre and postop, where patient hairlength was about 6 cm difference (hair grows 1 cm/month)
4) Dr Nigams once posted a series of patient photo's with post-op dates in the future
5) Dr Nigams once posted patient photo's from another doctor
6) It turned out he's probably not a real doctor
7) Patients who can 'proof' his theories disappear into nowhere (OBI and NeverSayNever)
8) Boldy, who's going to lead his cell growth experiments is just a hobbyist. I think I read he didnt even follow an official study for it (no bio chem study). He seems to be knowledgeable though. But a hobbyist.
9) There's a growing amount of complaints on Indian websites, stating his therapies don't work. According to Nigams this are his competitors
10) A forum member called some well known doctors in India. They all said they thought Nigams was a fr**d.
11) Nigams once claimed he was working with Dr Lauster. When forum members contacted Lausters' lab, they claimed they didn't work together at all

Of course this does NOT mean that it might not work. Boldy seems to be knowledgeable and who knows, maybe he can combine research results into something that works. But please, be careful here ... A lot of stuff in the past, of which I summed some up, didn't 'add up' the least.

----------


## hellouser

> You did follow everything from the beginning ? I think it's important to remember:
> 
> 1) When Dr Nigams came to this board, he posted photoshopped patient results on his site. He later said it was his webdesigner who went rogue and did this on his own. http://postimg.org/image/ju8l872sn/ and this one: http://postimg.org/image/eo3qhea5x/
> 2) When Dr Nigams got confronted by the large amount of complaints regarding his weight clinic he lied about his clinic being his wife (or he lied on Indian television when he claimed it was his)
> 3) Dr Nigams once posted a patient photo showing 3 months time between pre and postop, where patient hairlength was about 6 cm difference (hair grows 1 cm/month)
> 4) Dr Nigams once posted a series of patient photo's with post-op dates in the future
> 5) Dr Nigams once posted patient photo's from another doctor
> 6) It turned out he's probably not a real doctor
> 7) Patients who can 'proof' his theories disappear into nowhere (OBI and NeverSayNever)
> ...


 All facts.

Also way too early to get hyped up about Dr. Nigam. Plus all his photograhs released to date have been very suspect.

----------


## didi

> All facts.
> 
> Also way too early to get hyped up about Dr. Nigam. Plus all his photograhs released to date have been very suspect.


 not the best start for dr nigams, 


another thing which concerns me is dr nigams started doubling technique some 9 months ago and few months later he started offering it to patients claiming great success, even ditching fue/fut.

In reality its simply impossible to assess effectiveness of doubling procedure after only a few months of practising..

plus his photos are not getting any better , at least he doesn't steal them from other doctors but still

----------


## Arashi

> In reality its simply impossible to assess effectiveness of doubling procedure after only a few months of practising..


 And in addition to that ... if he can't show us any photo's detailing success (so of such a quality that hairs can be counted), how does HE even know it works ?

----------


## bananana

When you say it like this, it DOES look bad. But, as I imagine you know, the most careful companies with the biggest budgets, shiniest graphics, pre/post photos etc - are all frauds (for example vichy...) and yet - nobody is blaming them for anything.

Dr Nigam is trying to prove his tech, calling forum members to his clinic, I dont see how a fraudster would be doing that, it doesnt pay off, not even in the short run.

I agree he has done MANY mistakes, no argue there, but I remain optimistic concerning this topic. Tom and Boldy should make or break this once and forever.

If it proves successful, I'm ready to go there and provide hi res photos and all...

----------


## Arashi

> Tom and Boldy should make or break this once and forever.


 That's true. If Tom doesn't show success and Boldy can't get bring the 3d culture to a success, it's over for all hope regarding dr Nigams ... Which sucks cause that would also mean that we're lightyears from a 'cure'. But personally I don't have much hope left anyway for Nigams ... Too much 'funny stuff', no results photos', a hobbyist leading his research and him even not being a real doctor.

----------


## hellouser

I imagine that if Nigam is a scam, there will be at least one patient of his who will set out to break Nigam's legs.

----------


## didi

Dr Mwamba is going to visit Dr Nigams early next month, he cant fool him that's for sure


Im not happy that some unknown forum member is leading research, shows you how fcked da whole thing is


All research companies are pretty much dead, Nigam will almost certainly fail, pilofocus is the only thing left

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

we desperetely need help from people with technology  :Frown: 

what we will do brothers? :Frown:

----------


## The Alchemist

Honestly, Nigam bringing in Boldy to help him with his research is pretty much the tipping point for me.  I can longer even give him the benefit of the doubt. Pulling a forum member with no science background, no degree, no expertise, to conduct bioengineering experiments...on humans, no less???? It's ludicrous.  As are the photoshopped pics, the treated patients who've gone missing, the Tom photos that never showed up, the paper that never got published, his claims of taking NW6 to NW2 etc..etc..  The list is so long and comprehensive it can't be ignored.

And i mean no disrespect to Boldy by saying this.  I'm sure he has a good deal of knowlege, but, putting it into practice in laboratory is a whole other ball game.  It takes a long time to develop good lab skill and experience is everything.

----------


## didi

What are the chances Boldy  invents HM/cloning?

This is getting past the point of being ridiculous, serious Dr should not allow some unknown forum member with no prior experience to experiment on humans

What if somebody ends up with cancer, dr nigam is rich man he could bribe his way out in india but these people are retarded for putting their lives at risk


Truth is dr nigma doesn't have much experience with HT, he started a year or 2 ago coming from weight loss industry, now he is playing with stuff he doesn't know much about and letting forum members play with his lab...this is serious

----------


## Gjm127

What really bothers me is the fact that if I recall correctly some forum members were given a free trial with Nigam and we still have no word from them. That was supposed to be the ultimate answer to all the people, including me, that still have no idea if Nigam is legit or not.

I mean, what the **** did Nigam do to you? Were you guys kidnapped or something? Brainwashed? Bribed not to speak up? 

Pathetic.. This is just pathetic. The lack of legitimacy is appalling.

----------


## mari0s

ok stop. i think Boldy is more than capable to defend from himself if he want and not need help from others but where the hell come from the accusation of experimenting on humans? This is ridiculus come on.  He is not leading anything, he is just be inviting on Mumbai to test some invitro protocol he thinking, and this seems perfectly normal to me. You don't need decades of experience to experimenting new ideas, the scientific method has remained the same from centuries

----------


## didi

Who knows maybe dr nigams brainwashed OBI and NSN and turned them into mindless zoombies.

----------


## bananana

> Who knows maybe dr nigams brainwashed OBI and NSN and turned them into mindless zoombies.


 cmon didi, lets act like adults.

----------


## NewestGuy

> *Ok, this is it.
> *
> If Boldy and Tom's experiment goes well, I'm the next forum member heading there. 
> 
> I believed in Nigam since the beginning, and frankly, I'm tired from all these experiments in DYI arrangement.
> 
> Currently I'm on MSM/VIT C + dermaroller + divine herbal oil. 
> I've seen stabilisation over the last 2 years, BUT NO REGROWTH. 
> 
> ...


 You'll have to fight me for it. If I can get something finally scheduled I'd be off soon.

----------


## garethbale

> You'll have to fight me for it. If I can get something finally scheduled I'd be off soon.


 You two will probably come back with six arms or luminous green eyes...

----------


## hellouser

> You two will probably come back with six arms or luminous green eyes...


 Extra capabilities to kick ass and scare off people? Sign me up.

----------


## oppenheimer82

didi and the alchemist should just take a chill pill and wait for more proof and pictures. it does not make sense at all to speculate yourselves to death.

----------


## Arashi

> ok stop. i think Boldy is more than capable to defend from himself if he want and not need help from others but where the hell come from the accusation of experimenting on humans? This is ridiculus come on.  He is not leading anything, he is just be inviting on Mumbai to test some invitro protocol he thinking, and this seems perfectly normal to me. You don't need decades of experience to experimenting new ideas, the scientific method has remained the same from centuries


 AFAIK understood it, Boldy is going to test 3d culturing and if succesfull, they're going to try it on humans. That's the whole thing. I think the plan still is to inject Tom with it.

----------


## Boldy

This forum is full with depressed paranoid  Beta males. 


Get a life or something! go with regular HT, shave your head, or accept hairloss! It does not make any sense bitching around on this forum or even Making false claims against me like he is leading his research, jeezus.

Nigam's has already his protocols like dp culture, doubling and ht's. THat he do apply on his patients!

Nigams is open minded, and is open for improvement, unlike most ht surgeons.. 

Only thing that has changed is we are doing some new Experiments in *VITRO*. If you don't even know what Vitro is, then maybe its maybe time to stop reading and do some research first.

with other words applying the literature (that is even tested on humans) in VITRO. 

Once his lab team sees the same success, then I'll consider the cultured cells on my self! What has this to do with you guys? *its not you business at all*.



First asking to report every detail, and now a back stab..




Its so disgusting to see people so passive and complaining around, attacking others, making up false rumors. With his attitude you will reach Nothing in life. 0.0&#37;. everything will stay the same as it is.

I was planning to make a topic of my experience and fast healing of my new transplant procedure, but with such attitude, I have to keep it to the private forum.


Boldy.

----------


## Arashi

> This forum is full with depressed paranoid  Beta males. 
> 
> 
> Get a life or something! go with regular HT, shave your head, or accept hairloss! It does not make any sense bitching around on this forum or even Making false claims against me like he is leading his research, jeezus.
> 
> Nigam's has already his protocols like dp culture, doubling and ht's. THat he do apply on his patients!
> 
> Nigams is open minded, and is open for improvement.
> 
> ...


 Boldy, don't take it personal, nobody is attacking you. But it does seem a bit strange that you're the one conducting the experiments for Nigams. A hobbyist without a degree in bio tech, right ? Again, nobody attacks you, you seem to know a lot and it can only be considered extremely kind and well-meant by you, that you're willing to invest all your personal time. But again, from a professional point of view, it's a bit weird the least in my opinion or am I missing something ?

And the plan is still to inject Tom, right ? And anybody else who wants to have it injected.

----------


## tom vercetti

> Boldy, don't take it personal, nobody is attacking you. But it does seem a bit strange that you're the one conducting the experiments for Nigams. A hobbyist without a degree in bio tech, right ? Again, nobody attacks you, you seem to know a lot and it can only be considered extremely kind and well-meant by you, that you're willing to invest all your personal time. But again, from a professional point of view, it's a bit weird the least in my opinion or am I missing something ?
> 
> And the plan is still to inject Tom, right ? And anybody else who wants to have it injected.


 Actually I want the 3D for my whole scalp, give it a boost. And doubling will be tested by dr mwamba himself in next 6 months. I know its hard Arashi, but just let time to time.. I seen impressive result from my owns eyes..

----------


## Arashi

> Actually I want the 3D for my whole scalp, give it a boost. And doubling will be tested by dr mwamba himself in next 6 months. I know its hard Arashi, but just let time to time.. I seen impressive result from my owns eyes..


 So then, we conclude that somebody without a professional study and degree conducts the experiments, for a doctor who isn't a real doctor, and who will test it on you. Right ? Sorry for stating this so harsh, I don't want to offend you or Boldy, but at the same time it's true, right ?

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Actually I want the 3D for my whole scalp, give it a boost. And doubling will be tested by dr mwamba himself in next 6 months. I know its hard Arashi, but just let time to time.. I seen impressive result from my owns eyes..


 When is Dr. Mwamba going to start this testing? 

I think we should focus more on proving the doubling technique, because if it is as claimed, than hair loss is cured by surgery. (IF)

----------


## tom vercetti

> So then, we conclude that somebody without a professional degree conducts the experiments, for a doctor who isn't a real doctor, and who will test it on you. Right ? Sorry for stating this so harsh, I don't want to offend you or Boldy, but at the same time it's true, right ?


 hmm there is a misunderstood things here. I think few of them didnt get the thing: dps cells multiplication means many different topic as the speed of multiplication, aggregate, spheroidal, protocol etc.. its not as simple. Boldy helped him by learning ALL the studies already done (even *on human*.. Yes..) on earth. He didnt conduced the whole Research and Devlopment department, but only helped to bring few protocol to get 3D protocol ready faster. Actually, Nigam dont invent the water again. He will just make the 3D available *to us*, wich means result already known (as you know  its even tried in US by arvid on Humans!?). Then + improvement of course with all nigam previous research.

----------


## tom vercetti

> When is Dr. Mwamba going to start this testing? 
> 
> I think we should focus more on proving the doubling technique, because if it is as claimed, than hair loss is cured by surgery. (IF)


 By beginning of september. He will test, and make his own case study (confidential for him). If he found all is ok, he will bring a brand new doubling technique in europe, and when I say "brand new" thats mean the last improvement in this technique by nigam.. So Dr Mwamba will be able to see different doubling technique tested and follow them in real time. So continue to think is a fake, but you still have only few more months to think so..

----------


## Arashi

> hmm there is a misunderstood things here. I think few of them didnt get the thing: dps cells multiplication means many different topic as the speed of multiplication, aggregate, spheroidal, protocol etc.. its not as simple. Boldy helped him by learning ALL the studies already done (even *on human*.. Yes..) on earth. He didnt conduced the whole Research and Devlopment department, but only helped to bring few protocol to get 3D protocol ready faster. Actually, Nigam dont invent the water again. He will just make the 3D available *to us*, wich means result already known (as you know  its even tried in US by arvid on Humans!?). Then + improvement of course with all nigam previous research.


 I kind of like this post below, from "Mr Z" on HS. It describes the situation pretty well in my opinion. Anyway, if you still want to move on with this, good luck to you Tom. 

-------------------------------

Mr Z:

And i'm amazed at how people who are so willing to accept something without any proof. There is not one single shred of objective, scientific evidence that Dr. Nigam can grow hair or even that what he's doing is safe.

How do you know his procedure is safe? Did he do a safety trial? You imply that because aderans and replicel had no safety issues therefore Nigam must be completely safe. I can not even begin to stress to you how wrong headed, utterly naive and ignorant you are on the subject. Comparing Nigam's fiddling in the lab to a full blown clinical trial is like comparing 5 year olds playing t-ball on the playground to the major leagues. 

Do you understand that both Replicel and Aderans had to conduct their trials under the strictest manufacturing controls that exist. Their trials are monitored and audited, every step of the way, every single aspect of their process from start to finish. They had to throw out a entire group of subjects because the cells they shipped fell outside a predefined temperature range. It was probably just a few degrees for a brief period of time. But they were forced to but outside governing bodies to ensure the validity and safety of the trial. How strict do you think Nigam is being? Who's watching over him? The answer is no one. Yet he's cooking up whatever and injecting away without a care in the world

Nigam has no expertise in cell culturing, his facilities and his process are not subjected to the same rigors that a biotech or pharma company conducting a clinical trial are. I work in laboratory for a pharma company for the past 15 years. The work in my department and my group is held to a predefined, rigorous scientific standard that would make Nigam's head spin. The documentation, the procedural steps for sample handling and processing are ridiculous. And i'm preclinical!! The clinical folks go to lengths that are staggering. All to ensure that the trial is conducted safely, that it's standardized and that the results are objectively meaningful. It takes a huge team of people to pull that off. Nigam and his guys that he pulled randomly off the internet are not in that league...they're not in the same universe. 

As for his efficacy - this has been thoroughly addressed in this thread. He's not produced any photos that are less than ambiguous. And i don't buy the NSN is "sensitive" that's f'ng ridiculous. And if that was the case then why did Nigam lie about it initially and say that NSN was having family issues. Once again, the story has changed. OBI dissappeared without explanation. If he received a revolutionary treatment that was growing hair on his baldass head, do you really think he just go away and never be heard from again? BS. Something went down with both cases that we are not being let in on. 

I know you're desperate to have hair, as is everybody around here. And im not saying Nigam can't make it work, maybe he will. But, you absolutely have to be objective about any kind of assessment you make of him. And if you're honest with yourself, and you truly weigh what he's shown on these forums... you can't conclude really anything about him other than he's ambitious and has a lot of big ideas. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean he's able to grow hair and it certainly doesn't mean that what he's doing is safe. Please take your time with it, see if any of the cases he's already done pan out before you leap in and have your head injected with who knows what.

If you go to have the procedure i wish you best of luck and hope all turns out well and safe for you. It would be great if Nigam did what no one else has managed, but, count me as a sceptic until proven otherwise.

----------


## clarence

What of it if he doesn't have a degree, if those who have degrees AND a lot of money fvck up time after time. I'm wagering stuff would get done in some of these big companies (cough cough aderans) if they would have recruited these sort of guys who do all sorts of exciting stuff on forums.

I don't think didi, alchemist and others are educated enough about Boldy's work to be the judge here

----------


## tom vercetti

> What of it if he doesn't have a degree, if those who have degrees AND a lot of money fvck up time after time. I'm wagering stuff would get done in some of these big companies (cough cough aderans) if they would have recruited these sort of guys who do all sorts of exciting stuff on forums.
> 
> *I don't think didi, alchemist and others are educated enough about Boldy's work to be the judge here*


 but they think they are ahah.. Boldy showed me few studies in india, and peoples here just dont understand what is done.. thats the problem

----------


## FearTheLoss

> By beginning of september. He will test, and make his own case study (confidential for him). If he found all is ok, he will bring a brand new doubling technique in europe, and when I say "brand new" thats mean the last improvement in this technique by nigam.. So Dr Mwamba will be able to see different doubling technique tested and follow them in real time. So continue to think is a fake, but you still have only few more months to think so..


 I'm not doubting Dr. Nigam, I wouldn't go over there for a procedure yet, because I haven't seen proof...but I'm patiently waiting and I keep a neutral view on the subject of donor doubling. 

If Dr. Mwamba confirms it's legitimacy than I will believe 100%...as Dr. Mwamba is a highly respected doctor....and I don't think any doctors in the USA will be able to question the technique if Dr. Mwamba confirms it either....he has too good of a reputation.

----------


## tom vercetti

> I'm not doubting Dr. Nigam, I wouldn't go over there for a procedure yet, because I haven't seen proof...but I'm patiently waiting and I keep a neutral view on the subject of donor doubling. 
> 
> If Dr. Mwamba confirms it's legitimacy than I will believe 100%...as Dr. Mwamba is a highly respected doctor....and I don't think any doctors in the USA will be able to question the technique if Dr. Mwamba confirms it either....he has too good of a reputation.


 In french: "OUFFFFF" 

It still have people like you on forum !! what you say is just what I try to explain since a while  :Smile:  Thanks my friend.

----------


## Arashi

> In french: "OUFFFFF" 
> 
> It still have people like you on forum !! what you say is just what I try to explain since a while  Thanks my friend.


 I just want you to fully understand the risks, Tom, that's all. Personally I think it's outright crazy what you're going to do. But then, people jump off cliffs in a wingsuit all the time, knowing there's quite a chance they won't survive. I'm quite liberal here. As long as somebody understands the risks, he's allowed to drive a car without safety belt as far as I'm concerned, allowed to jump of a cliff in a wingsuit, inject himself with heroine, have unprotected sex with a Thai hooker and have 3d culture tested on him that potentially could kill him. 


In my opinion, as long as somebody understands the risks, he's free to do whatever he wants (without harming others of course). So I wish you all the best Tom.

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

arashi please explain us how it may be harmfull to get 3d injections?

----------


## Arashi

> arashi please explain us how it may be harmfull to get 3d injections?


 Please re-read that quote by Mr Z that I just posted on the previous page.

----------


## Boldy

> So then, we conclude that somebody without a professional study and degree conducts the experiments, for a doctor who isn't a real doctor, and who will test it on you. Right ? Sorry for stating this so harsh, I don't want to offend you or Boldy, but at the same time it's true, right ?


 Okay Arashi, I have no doubts about your intentions. However I think, maybe because of the lack of the reading and digging in this topic which I do understand, there are allot misunderstandings.

Its not more than applying the already known and done research, In Vitro. which means the cells will be screen with PCR,  you'll check if the cells are healthy, and express same markers as the reference studies. Take arvid for example who did the same in the US.

regarding safety of expanding your own mesenchymal cells and administering them back. Like I said before, even tho there are so many human trials for various diseases with mesecnhymal cells, you will never have guarantee. (regenerative medicine) THis is my previous post about safety.

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthr...682#post138682
(read it  :Smile:  )

It remains experimental is my opinion. *for now GO with regular mechanical treatments*, and* wait and see what the time brings in the future.
*


for me its waiting for the vitro results, from there, *IF* they comply, I will fly back for test on *MY own*.

I say this for you and you only, because I think you are a good person. If hairloss annoys you this much, then please do something about it, do a HT man. the thing is, all these years on forum, instead of doing nice things, with your gf for example, You will regret over some years, that you have not enjoid your life to the fullest. Take adventage of what is already possible, and is already proven to be safe. and enjoy your hair, is my very best advice.


Me, I will continue what I do best regardless of what other individuals say or think, without ever involving or recommending any of these experimental to other individuals than my self, and do what I think is best for my path to fix my hairloss.

Take care!

Boldy

----------


## clarence

> but they think they are ahah.. Boldy showed me few studies in india, and peoples here just dont understand what is done.. thats the problem


 I mean obviously I'm not educated enough to judge Boldy's work either, but he's obviously putting a lot of his time and effort into it, without monetary compensation, and some people are just too didi to appreciate that.

----------


## tom vercetti

> Please re-read that quote by Mr Z that I just posted on the previous page.


 No this post dont speak about 3D dp cell culture. This post is right, but dont speak about the topic. He is just speking from a very general point of view and dont mention any point, just "think" of "what could be dangerous in india"

Sorry, but I also feel really concern about safety but here risk is as low as go in the street and get hurt by a car...

----------


## Arashi

> Okay Arashi, I have no doubts about your intentions. However I think, maybe because of the lack of the reading and digging in this topic which I do understand, there are allot misunderstandings.
> 
> Its not more than applying the already known and done research, In Vitro. which means the cells will be screen with PCR,  you'll check if the cells are healthy, and express same markers as the reference studies. Take arvid for example who did the same in the US.
> 
> regarding safety of expanding your own mesenchymal cells and administering them back. Like I said before, even tho there are so many human trials for various diseases with mesecnhymal cells, you will never have guarantee. (regenerative medicine) THis is my previous post about safety.
> 
> http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthr...682#post138682
> (read it  )
> 
> ...


 I know you only mean good as well, Boldy, and I highly appreciate all you do. I don't worry about you, you know all the risks and are at a better position than anyone to judge them. I do worry about the others though. I think what Nigams doing is unethical. My professor at university once defined ethics simply as: if what you're doing would appear on the front page of the newspaper, would you be ok with it ? I think Dr Nigams wouldn't be. I'm afraid that people are going to India who, unlike you, do NOT understand the full risk of what they're going to have done. 

I know people complain about the Western world, about how treatments have to go through years of safety testing before they can be marketed. But in the end, it's all for a good reason.

----------


## gc83uk

To be honest, we might as well just forget all the stuff Boldy is doing at the moment. I'm sure he'll let us know if/when he has news.  

I think it makes more sense to concentrate on the doubling side.....Tom, I think you said a couple of days back you would upload a photo of your donor area.  You also said there wouldn't be much to see, however there should be at least some regrowth right?  Be great if we could get a pic of the same sample area as what we can see on Nigams site. Hopefully you know the exact area I'm talking about.

Did you upload one yet?

Can you also remind me when it was you had the doubling?  With everything going on here it's hard to keep track  :Smile: 

Can you also just remind me, did you have all the grafts put in the recipient, or do you put half of the graft back in the donor?  I know Dr Nigam offers either option.

All the best to you.

----------


## hellouser

If doubling has regeneration, that is going to be a big game changer. Can anyone explain how doubling works according to Nigam... but word in such a way that a 2 year old could understand?

----------


## Arashi

> To be honest, we might as well just forget all the stuff Boldy is doing at the moment. I'm sure he'll let us know if/when he has news.  
> 
> I think it makes more sense to concentrate on the doubling side.....Tom, I think you said a couple of days back you would upload a photo of your donor area.  You also said there wouldn't be much to see, however there should be at least some regrowth right?  Be great if we could get a pic of the same sample area as what we can see on Nigams site. Hopefully you know the exact area I'm talking about.
> 
> Did you upload one yet?
> 
> Can you also remind me when it was you had the doubling?  With everything going on here it's hard to keep track 
> 
> Can you also just remind me, did you have all the grafts put in the recipient, or do you put half of the graft back in the donor?  I know Dr Nigam offers either option.
> ...


 Which reminds me. Some time ago I was looking for Tom's pre-op photo's but Nigams removed them (or I couldnt find them anymore). I remember you said he mailed them to you. Could you please re-post them ? Thx !

----------


## Boldy

> I know you only mean good as well, Boldy, and I highly appreciate all you do. I don't worry about you, you know all the risks and are at a better position than anyone to judge them. I do worry about the others though. I think what Nigams doing is unethical. My professor at university once defined ethics simply as: if what you're doing would appear on the front page of the newspaper, would you be ok with it ? I think Dr Nigams wouldn't be. I'm afraid that people are going to India who, unlike you, do NOT understand the full risk of what they're going to have done. 
> 
> I know people complain about the Western world, about how treatments have to go through years of safety testing before they can be marketed. But in the end, it's all for a good reason.


 

Okay  :Smile: .  I have to agree with you, safety nr1.
this includes years of trialing like aderans and replicel do. and supervision. if people want it to happen faster, and cant wait, they can sign up for their trials indeed. 

Also this is why I'm already happy with the trials already been preformed with mesechymal cells by certain companies(not just hairloss companies). with non modified culture medium. it at least shows that usual protocols has not killed people thus far.


 I recommend mechanical approach for now  :Wink:  and fda drugs, although, they also don't come without risck, but we know what to expect, since trials are preformed.

Do you have a good donor left?if so stop waiting  :Smile: 

The best.

----------


## gc83uk

> Which reminds me. Some time ago I was looking for Tom's pre-op photo's but Nigams removed them (or I couldnt find them anymore). I remember you said he mailed them to you. Could you please re-post them ? Thx !


 Sure, take me a while to find them all, I take it you've seen this already:

Nigam chart pre-analysis area

----------


## Boldy

> To be honest, we might as well just forget all the stuff Boldy is doing at the moment. I'm sure he'll let us know if/when he has news.


 Indeed  :Smile: . my journey is experimental. If I have any findings, success or even total failure, I will let know my happenings.

----------


## gc83uk

Photo 1
Photo 2a
Photo 2b
Photo 3
Photo 4

After Photo 1
After Photo 2
After Photo 3

Might have some more somewhere, will check back later. Have you seen all these already?

----------


## tom vercetti

GC, sorry man, I will post the pics tommorow, I will but its still very small the regrowth not sure you can see a difference in macro pics. Thanks the pre op pics anyway  :Wink:

----------


## sausage

Sorry for my ignorance.......but what am I looking at in these photos?

What should I be seeing?

----------


## hellouser

> Sure, take me a while to find them all, I take it you've seen this already:
> 
> Nigam chart pre-analysis area


 THAT is how you show before and after case photos. Except for the last blurry photo.

----------


## mari0s

> I recommend mechanical approach for now  and fda drugs, although, they also don't come without risck, but we know what to expect, since trials are preformed.
> 
> Do you have a good donor left?if so stop waiting 
> 
> The best.


 are you still in contact with dr. Nigams? It seems he's stopping to post from sometime, beside all this virtual chatting upon ethical and safety i don't know if he'still to pursuing invitro on beardhair DP cells and 3d aggregation. Somewhere in the thread it was talking about 3-6 months to see some results, that's why i think, people are here arguing ferociously: they don't want to do an HT if something viable will may come from Nigams the next year

----------


## Arashi

> Photo 1
> Photo 2a
> Photo 2b
> Photo 3
> Photo 4
> 
> After Photo 1
> After Photo 2
> After Photo 3
> ...


 Thanks GC, this is what I was looking for !

----------


## tom vercetti

> are you still in contact with dr. Nigams? It seems he's stopping to post from sometime, beside all this virtual chatting upon ethical and safety i don't know if he'still to pursuing invitro on beardhair DP cells and 3d aggregation. Somewhere in the thread it was talking about 3-6 months to see some results, that's why i think, people are here arguing ferociously: they don't want to do an HT if something viable will may come from Nigams the next year


 Nigam stop to post because of the attack he got.. wuthout valuable reason.. He will come back after the result. Need to wait 6 months from now, and YES you should wait before make a HT as you will maybe have the choice to it in europe with mwamba.

----------


## hellouser

> Nigam stop to post because of the attack he got.. wuthout valuable reason.. He will come back after the result. Need to wait 6 months from now, and YES you should wait before make a HT as you will maybe have the choice to it in europe with mwamba.


 Most of the attacks are at the hands of IronMan.

----------


## garethbale

> Nigam stop to post because of the attack he got.. wuthout valuable reason.. He will come back after the result. Need to wait 6 months from now, and YES you should wait before make a HT as you will maybe have the choice to it in europe with mwamba.


 Iron Man was rude to him and attacked him unnecessarily.

Other than that, people questioned his practices and photos but no one attacked him.  I hope he doesn't feel that he was attacked, we just want to scrutinise his methods.

I hope he continues to post.

----------


## hellouser

> Iron Man was rude to him and attacked him unnecessarily.
> 
> Other than that, people questioned his practices and photos but no one attacked him.  I hope he doesn't feel that he was attacked, we just want to scrutinise his methods.
> 
> I hope he continues to post.


 He deserves every bit of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Its completely warranted and fair. However Ironman's insults had nothing to do with either side of the argument.

----------


## sausage

TBH I am completely lost with this at the moment......The main thing that is keeping me interested is the fact Dr Mwamba has apparently taken an interest.

Could sum1 give a very brief description of Dr Nigam's method(s) and what he is expecting to achieve.........is whatever he has claimed he can do......going to help a NW6?

----------


## FearTheLoss

> TBH I am completely lost with this at the moment......The main thing that is keeping me interested is the fact Dr Mwamba has apparently taken an interest.
> 
> Could sum1 give a very brief description of Dr Nigam's method(s) and what he is expecting to achieve.........is whatever he has claimed he can do......going to help a NW6?


 He claims unlimited donor, so, even you would be able to go to nw2 if you wanted to sausage....based on what he claims..it is yet to be determined if his claims are legit

----------


## garethbale

> He claims unlimited donor, so, even you would be able to go to nw2 if you wanted to sausage....based on what he claims..it is yet to be determined if his claims are legit


 Have to say if his claims were true that would be amazing.

I could completely fill in my hairline and have plenty left over for future work  :Smile: 

Need to wait for solid evidence though.

----------


## Arashi

> Sure, take me a while to find them all, I take it you've seen this already:
> 
> Nigam chart pre-analysis area


 Did you already take a close look at the photo's ? There are several factors that are going to make this very difficult to analyse in my opinion:
1) No birthmark/tattoo it seems. Not sure how Nigams is even going to locate the exact position again ?
2) *They shaved a huge part after the pre-op picture* (the post-op strip is both much thicker and longer, so we don't have a pre-op for quite a lot of grafts)
3) Pre-op resolution is still quite low. Probably just good enough but it's going to be difficult
4) Grafts were implanted back into donor right ? This is going to make it even harder to see what's what.

Maybe I'm missing something but this is going to be an extremely difficult analysis in my opinion. And the fact that we don't have a pre-op for about half of the donor is going to make it next to impossible. And I'm not even talking about recipient, that's even more difficult I think I remember they implanted alot INTO his hairline ...

----------


## Arashi

Really, maybe I'm overreacting but how are we supposed to do an analysis if we don't have half of the donor as pre-op ? And the recipient always bothered me a lot as well. It's just going to be extremely difficult to monitor since a lot was implanted into the hairline.

What Nigams needs to do is get a NW7 to his clinic and give him 15k grafts.

----------


## gc83uk

> Did you already take a close look at the photo's ? There are several factors that are going to make this very difficult to analyse in my opinion:
> 1) No birthmark/tattoo it seems. Not sure how Nigams is even going to locate the exact position again ?
> 2) They shaved a huge part after the pre-op picture (the post-op strip is both much thicker and longer, so we don't have a pre-op for quite a lot of grafts)
> 3) Pre-op resolution is still quite low. Probably just good enough but it's going to be difficult
> 4) Grafts were implanted back into donor right ? This is going to make it even harder to see what's what.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something but this is going to be an extremely difficult analysis in my opinion. And the fact that we don't have a pre-op for about half of the donor is going to make it next to impossible. And I'm not even talking about recipient, that's even more difficult I think I remember they implanted alot INTO his hairline ...


 Yea I had a brief look. The photos are almost useless  unfortunately.

I would like to know how many grafts were implanted back in the donor.  Do you have this info?

----------


## Arashi

> Yea I had a brief look. The photos are almost useless  unfortunately.


 Well for quite a few grafts we can see if they're single or doubles in the pre-op photo. The photo is not of stellar quality but it might just be enough. But the fact that they shaved half of the donor AFTER the pre-op picture makes the whole  thing rather useless in my opinion. That plus that we don't know where he implanted grafts back. The post-op pics are a huge mess. Not sure what's donor and what's recipient.





> I would like to know how many grafts were implanted back in the donor.  Do you have this info?


 I'm quite sure he posted this somewhere but no I don't have this at hand.

----------


## Arashi

If you overlay the pre-op with postop, you'll see that we'll miss about half of the donor area as pre-op picture. What if Nigams took high hair count grafts from that 'missing pre-op area' and implanted that into the visible pre-op area ? That way it would look like there's regrowth while he just moved & split grafts.

I can't believe he shaved that huge area after the pre-op picture. Really, I don't see how we can use this case for analysis.

----------


## Arashi

I'm getting tired of this. Nigams need to get a NW7, give him 15k grafts, nobody will then ever doubt him again. But making huge errors like he did here, messes up just everything.

----------


## gc83uk

> I'm getting tired of this. Nigams need to get a NW7, give him 15k grafts, nobody will then ever doubt him again. But making huge errors like he did here, messes up just everything.


 This is exactly why I was getting pissed off at the whole situation a few weeks after Tom's procedure.  Plenty of people telling me to calm down until 3 months later etc, but without pre ops pics we don't have a statistical starting point and can't produce results and conclude anything at all.

I knew after a week this case was probably doomed from an analysis point of view.

Hairman2 and Dr Nigam had a discussion at hairsite about 1 month ago. Hairman2 was saying the before and after analysis Dr Nigam had attempted to do (not sure if you've seen it) was incorrect, Dr Nigam admitted he circled the wrong area.  And the conversation went dead I think.   I need to find those photos!!!

----------


## Arashi

And man look at this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n5vzcjhyve...or-4---tom.jpg

Take a close look at how he numbered those grafts in those 2 circles. Not sure if I should laugh or cry but the numbers are totally wrong !! They don't correlate at all. Look at 21, 23, 27 and 17 for example. Or any circle. What is this, a joke ?

----------


## NewestGuy

> Okay .  I have to agree with you, safety nr1.
> this includes years of trialing like aderans and replicel do. and supervision. if people want it to happen faster, and cant wait, they can sign up for their trials indeed. 
> 
> Also this is why I'm already happy with the trials already been preformed with mesechymal cells by certain companies(not just hairloss companies). with non modified culture medium. it at least shows that usual protocols has not killed people thus far.
> 
> 
>  I recommend mechanical approach for now  and fda drugs, although, they also don't come without risck, but we know what to expect, since trials are preformed.
> 
> Do you have a good donor left?if so stop waiting 
> ...


 Boldy, while you were there with Dr. Nigam did you see any evidence of successful hair doubling? Were there any patients you met, or otherwise, that increased your faith in this procedure?

----------


## gc83uk

> And man look at this:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/n5vzcjhyve...or-4---tom.jpg
> 
> Take a close look at how he numbered those grafts in those 2 circles. Not sure if I should laugh or cry but the numbers are totally wrong !! They don't correlate at all. Look at 21, 23 and 28 for example. Or any circle. What is this, a joke ?


 Yes this is exactly what hairman2 was referring to.  We could do with finding the blown up large versions of these two photos.  Bit busy atm, but i'll dig them out in about 1 hour unless you can find them at hairsite in the meantime.  I've got another email here from Nigam with a bunch of crappy photos, post your email address and i'll forward it to you. You can delete your post/edit post and remove your email again.

----------


## Arashi

> This is exactly why I was getting pissed off at the whole situation a few weeks after Tom's procedure.  Plenty of people telling me to calm down until 3 months later etc, but without pre ops pics we don't have a statistical starting point and can't produce results and conclude anything at all.
> 
> I knew after a week this case was probably doomed from an analysis point of view.
> 
> Hairman2 and Dr Nigam had a discussion at hairsite about 1 month ago. Hairman2 was saying the before and after analysis Dr Nigam had attempted to do (not sure if you've seen it) was incorrect, Dr Nigam admitted he circled the wrong area.  And the conversation went dead I think.   I need to find those photos!!!


 LOL, yeah I think those 2 circles  are just totally different area's. This is horrible ... What a joke !!

----------


## Arashi

> Yes this is exactly what hairman2 was referring to.  We could do with finding the blown up large versions of these two photos.  Bit busy atm, but i'll dig them out in about 1 hour unless you can find them at hairsite in the meantime.  I've got another email here from Nigam with a bunch of crappy photos, post your email address and i'll forward it to you. You can delete your post/edit post and remove your email again.


 I still have access to your dropbox Gaz.

----------


## Arashi

> This is exactly why I was getting pissed off at the whole situation a few weeks after Tom's procedure.  Plenty of people telling me to calm down until 3 months later etc, but without pre ops pics we don't have a statistical starting point and can't produce results and conclude anything at all.


 I'm really starting to get pissed again. Not sure how Dr Nigams could mess this all up so big. And then those 2 circles with just random, different pieces of scalp in it !?!? WTF ??? Really ... Does he think we're all idiots ?

I gave this dude the benefit of the doubt for quite a while but man, this is just horrible ... What a joke !

----------


## gc83uk

> I'm really starting to get pissed again. Not sure how Dr Nigams could mess this all up so big. And then those 2 circles with just random, different pieces of scalp in it !?!? WTF ??? Really ... Does he think we're all idiots ?
> 
> I gave this dude the benefit of the doubt for quite a while but man, this is just horrible ... What a joke !


 urgh I know you do, just rather press FWD on this email :P

----------


## Arashi

> urgh I know you do, just rather press FWD on this email :P


 Just made a temp email: checkthisout22345@yopmail.com

----------


## Arashi

Really, after seeing this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/n5vzcjhyve...or-4---tom.jpg
it's all over for me. No more faith in Nigams at all, he's never going to change, he'll keep trying to cheat and manipulate as he did in those circles. What a joke. Tom's case is useless, Nigams manipulating again with his research ... This is really embarrassing.

----------


## hellouser

Why is it so fvcking difficult to isolate a 1cm x 1cm (or inches) area thats close to a birth mark, take whatever number of grafts, do the work, implant them into another area that can be TRACKED and take close up shots of BOTH areas before and after with ample SOFT lighting (no use of flash, just lots of natural light). This way, all you do is count the number of individual hairs BEFORE in the donor area and match them with whatever is there AFTER. The recipient area will obviously be tracked after and whatever number of individual hairs are THERE can easily be counted and compared to the donor hairs.

DONE.

But god DAMN it, why is this still a problem?!? Why is such a simple more complex than trying to get laid by a biblethumper?!

----------


## gc83uk

> Really, after seeing this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/n5vzcjhyve...or-4---tom.jpg
> it's all over for me. No more faith in Nigams at all, he's never going to change, he'll keep trying to cheat and manipulate as he did in those circles. What a joke. Tom's case is useless, Nigams manipulating again with his research ... This is really embarrassing.


 OK I've sent about 5 emails there. I've sent them as he sent them to me, it's a bit of a mess in terms of photos are duplicated and unorganised!  You might be able to make head from tail of it all.  Feel free to upload these into a drop box folder in that shared account, perhaps create a folder called Tom.

----------


## Arashi

> OK I've sent about 5 emails there. I've sent them as he sent them to me, it's a bit of a mess in terms of photos are duplicated and unorganised!  You might be able to make head from tail of it all.  Feel free to upload these into a drop box folder in that shared account, perhaps create a folder called Tom.


 Not sure if that mailbox is slow, but could you maybe send them again to:
drnigams@mailcatch.com

----------


## lilpauly

I seen some photos of a patient who had surgery recently and I was impressed with the results. I'm getting surgery in 6 months if my regimen doesn't restore my receding  hairline .

----------


## gc83uk

> I seen some photos of a patient who had surgery recently and I was impressed with the results. I'm getting surgery in 6 months if my regimen doesn't restore my receding  hairline .


 With Dr Nigam?

----------


## lilpauly

> With Dr Nigam?


 Yes man

----------


## gc83uk

> Yes man


 Can you post the photos?

----------


## gc83uk

> Not sure if that mailbox is slow, but could you maybe send them again to:
> drnigams@mailcatch.com


 Got them now?

----------


## Pentarou

> Iron Man was rude to him and attacked him unnecessarily.
> 
> Other than that, people questioned his practices and photos but no one attacked him.  I hope he doesn't feel that he was attacked, we just want to scrutinise his methods.
> 
> I hope he continues to post.


 I do as well, despite the various issues.

People are not so angry at Dr Nigam, it's more that they are (IMO) anxious to see results, and as the visual evidence is so poor, and continues to be so, the collective frustration becomes very obvious on the surface.

Iron Man is a disruptive troll and should have been banned from here years ago, yes.

Boldy, if you're listening, I hope you're doing well at the moment, and please keep us posted.

----------


## gc83uk

> I do as well, despite the various issues.
> 
> People are not so angry at Dr Nigam, it's more that they are (IMO) anxious to see results, and as the visual evidence is so poor, and continues to be so, the collective frustration becomes very obvious on the surface.
> 
> Iron Man is a disruptive troll and should have been banned from here years ago, yes.
> 
> Boldy, if you're listening, I hope you're doing well at the moment, and please keep us posted.


 btw mate, I've just seen your email in my inbox, I rarely check it because I only use it for hair site and btt.

----------


## Arashi

> btw mate, I've just seen your email in my inbox, I rarely check it because I only use it for hair site and btt.


 Gaz, these free mail sites suck  :Smile:  I just sent you an email though from my hotmail.

----------


## lilpauly

> Can you post the photos?


 Hellouser knows the person I will ask to join the forum but I can't post the pics without his approval

----------


## Arashi

> Iron Man is a disruptive troll and should have been banned from here years ago, yes.


 He's a troll, for sure. He's an asshole, for sure too. But it really seems he's right about Nigams.

----------


## UK_

If the kitchen sink didnt work for lilpaulys hair line I dont know what we're going to do... I just wonder then how Histogen were able to increase hair count in temporal regions (not just slow/stop hair loss but actually increase the number of hairs in documented regions).

----------


## Arashi

So, now Tom's case turned out to be totally unusable, what's next ? Should we wait for Boldy to do his experiments ?

----------


## Arashi

> Why is it so fvcking difficult to isolate a 1cm x 1cm (or inches) area thats close to a birth mark, take whatever number of grafts, do the work, implant them into another area that can be TRACKED and take close up shots of BOTH areas before and after with ample SOFT lighting (no use of flash, just lots of natural light). This way, all you do is count the number of individual hairs BEFORE in the donor area and match them with whatever is there AFTER. The recipient area will obviously be tracked after and whatever number of individual hairs are THERE can easily be counted and compared to the donor hairs.
> 
> DONE.
> 
> But god DAMN it, why is this still a problem?!? Why is such a simple more complex than trying to get laid by a biblethumper?!


 Nah I don't think that would be a good test. Way to easily manipulated. Actually it's rather easy. Give someone 5k grafts (that's what NIgams says he can do in 1 session). Shave all hair (like always. Toms case is perfect showcase why this is absolutely needed). Put the 10k grafts (doubled) in recipient, preferably in a totally bald area. Don't implant anything back in donor !! Make good highres pre and postop pics, of every single graft.

But I'm promising you guys, this is NOT going to happen. Nigams is a fraud, I'm really convinced now after seeing that picture of those 2 circles ( https://www.dropbox.com/s/n5vzcjhyve...or-4---tom.jpg ). What an embarrassing joke. Really pisses me off.

----------


## StayThick

> Hellouser knows the person I will ask to join the forum but I can't post the pics without his approval


 Lilpauly if you are considering a transplant...than all hope is lost because you have tried every concoction on the planet to save your hair. I will have given up hope.

Transplant is the ONLY way I can have hair again.. Sucks. On top of that, I'd have to go through the embarrassment at work and deal with transplant jokes as a 27 year old. Terrible.

I hate balding. Damn this curse.

----------


## Californication

We obviously don't know if Nigams is legit or not. But him disappearing because of some criticism doesn't make sense when the criticism is valid. Unfortunately, the hair loss industry is one that hasn't attracted the most transparent or trustworthy of souls. So he should take this in mind and still come to the forums when appropriate, and not get disheartened/think we are against him. We are not, but we need proof-- get a bald scalp and get to work, it's not that hard, and the rewards in terms of trust and verification will be HUGE. If he is legit, surely we will know one way or another soon, although this talk of Tom's case being hard to follows is disappointing.

Boldy did say that he went for doubling though correct? Perhaps he could weigh in and share some pictures if he has them?

----------


## didi

Didn't dr nigam say that there will be apology published in Mumbai papers in regards to false reporting/rape allegations by dr anjali?




problem with india is you can get away with anything provided you got bit of cash

well respected HT doctor from India  dr bhatti thinks nigam is a sc*m

----------


## cocacola

guys you realize that you flooded 127 pages of nothing here. Just be patient, time will show if nigas is bs or legit.

----------


## didi

cocoacola

you cant stop forum members from posting opinions and scrutinising his work, that's what its all about.

too many red flags and its good to be optimist but so far whats been presented by nigams is not good enough, photography is not getting better even though he bought new slr,marking different areas of scalp , etc etc..

im surprised spencer is allowing this to go on

----------


## greatjob!

> guys you realize that you flooded 127 pages of nothing here.


 Welcome to the btt. I could create a thread about injecting semen into your scalp to cure baldness and it would garner over 100 pages.

----------


## Boldy

> Hellouser knows the person I will ask to join the forum but I can't post the pics without his approval


 
I think Lilpauly means my results  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): ..

despite the already results on hairline, People there do understand that it takes more than 2 months to get results. that if a dr draws some wrong dots, that its will change the results on papyer maybe by maybe 1-3&#37; instead everything? The end result should still be obvious after some months.

btw, 





> So, now Tom's case turned out to be totally unusable, what's next ? Should we wait for Boldy to do his experiments ?


 

I thought we already agreed  a couple pages back, that my role there and experiments, where not for the public yet, since its experimental ? And that it should stay mechanical approach for you guys?

Here it is:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpos...postcount=1207

and:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpos...postcount=1211

----------


## clandestine

Boldy am I understanding that you've posted pictures somewhere?

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

Boldy here are also people that RESPECT you, please post here pictures.

thanks

----------


## Boldy

> Boldy am I understanding that you've posted pictures somewhere?


 
My plan was to share also here with you guys, but with such certain people with a certain paranoid behavior, I think you might understand, why I keep it just there for now.

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

Boldy i please bro.....   :Frown:

----------


## Boldy

> Boldy i please bro.....


 I'm currently on my phone. I might consider it tonight.

----------


## Arashi

> I think Lilpauly means my results ..
> I thought we already agreed  a couple pages back, that my role there and experiments, where not for the public yet, since its experimental ? And that it should stay mechanical approach for you guys?


 Just thinking out loud. I mean now Tom's case turns out to be useless ... Is there any hope left ?

----------


## clandestine

> Just thinking out loud. I mean now Tom's case turns out to be useless ... Is there any hope left ?


 Why has Tom's case turned out to be useless?

----------


## Arashi

> Why has Tom's case turned out to be useless?


 1) Nigams shaved a great deal of donor AFTER the pre-op picture, so we don't have the pre-op situation for quite a bit of donor. This point alone invalidates the whole test
2) Nigams shaved 4 strips, rest of the donor hair was not shaved. He didn't tattoo anything, so how on earth are we going to locate exactly those 4 strips ?
3) He implanted grafts back into donor and in the photo's it's impossible to distinguish extractions from implants.
4) He implanted quite a lot of grafts into the hairline, without shaving, so how on earth are we going to locate every graft ?

Really, look at the photo's, it's one big mess. It's impossible to do an analysis like this. And Nigams tried to cheat. AGAIN. Look at the 2 circles on this picture:https://www.dropbox.com/s/n5vzcjhyve...or-4---tom.jpg

Now look at the numbering. Take a good look. You'll first notice something weird ... First you'll notice the line, it's not in the same place. Then you'll notice the numbers, they don't correlate at all. And then you'll notice ... the 2 circles are just showing totally different pieces of scalp !! Nigams just took 2 photo's of different pieces of scalp, put some numbers in it to make it look roughly the same.... Really this guy is a fraud. He just doesn't care about publishing scientific proof. He just makes stuff up.

----------


## clandestine

Truth, thanks.

----------


## tom vercetti

> 1) Nigams shaved a great deal of donor AFTER the pre-op picture, so we don't have the pre-op situation for quite a bit of donor. This point alone invalidates the whole test
> 2) Nigams shaved 4 strips, rest of the donor hair was not shaved. He didn't tattoo anything, so how on earth are we going to locate exactly those 4 strips ?
> 3) He implanted grafts back into donor and in the photo's it's impossible to distinguish extractions from implants.
> 4) He implanted quite a lot of grafts into the hairline, without shaving, so how on earth are we going to locate every graft ?
> 
> Really, look at the photo's, it's one big mess. It's impossible to do an analysis like this. And Nigams tried to cheat. AGAIN. Look at the 2 circles on this picture:https://www.dropbox.com/s/n5vzcjhyve...or-4---tom.jpg
> 
> Now look at the numbering. Take a good look. You'll first notice something weird ... First you'll notice the line, it's not in the same place. Then you'll notice the numbers, they don't correlate at all. And then you'll notice ... the 2 circles are just showing totally different pieces of scalp !! Nigams just took 2 photo's of different pieces of scalp, put some numbers in it to make it look roughly the same.... Really this guy is a fraud. He just doesn't care about publishing scientific proof. He just makes stuff up.


 He already explained it on hairsite 1,5 months ago.. why now are you doing that ? 

And.. he didnt do anything.. actually I was there when "he" made this, and it was not him.. but his IT team. He just ask them to circle and get good quality.. I do understand without tatoo its difficult, but we was all ok to say no tatoo on me.. So just stop BS arashi.. thanks

Just relax.. and wait for some times ok ?

----------


## Arashi

> He already explained it on hairsite 1,5 months ago.. why now are you doing that ? 
> 
> And.. he didnt do anything.. actually I was there when "he" made this, and it was not him.. but his IT team. He just ask them to circle and get good quality.. I do understand without tatoo its difficult, but we was all ok to say no tatoo on me.. So just stop BS arashi.. thanks
> 
> Just relax.. and wait for some times ok ?


 So, tell me, how did he explain it ? He didn't care about the analysis at all ? His IT is totally incompetent, they just 'do' stuff without knowing what they do ? Tom, sorry, but this photo is extremely embarrassing. 

And tell me, how are we supposed to do an analysis of your case if his IT can't even pinpoint 50 grafts ? Did you look at your photo's ? They're one big fat mess. Sorry, but it's going to be really impossible to say something useful regarding your case.

----------


## mari0s

> Now look at the numbering. Take a good look. You'll first notice something weird ... First you'll notice the line, it's not in the same place. Then you'll notice the numbers, they don't correlate at all. And then you'll notice ... the 2 circles are just showing totally different pieces of scalp !! Nigams just took 2 photo's of different pieces of scalp, put some numbers in it to make it look roughly the same.... Really this guy is a fraud. He just doesn't care about publishing scientific proof. He just makes stuff up.


 It could be still possible to compare them, the first circle is above a neo, while the second is far on a right side, (i think or could be a crust). So if someone would compare need to find that neo as mark

----------


## tom vercetti

> So, tell me, how did he explain it ? He didn't care about the analysis at all ? His IT is totally incompetent, they just 'do' stuff without knowing what they do ? Tom, sorry, but this photo is extremely embarrassing. 
> 
> And tell me, how are we supposed to do an analysis of your case if his IT can't even pinpoint 50 grafts ? Did you look at your photo's ? They're one big fat mess. Sorry, but it's going to be really impossible to say something useful regarding your case.


 Actually I seen the computer where they worked, when you are thousand circle I can just understand its difficult to found from a picture to another.. They are also Young peoples.. You want to blam dr nigam for that ? The case study of 25 patch test was not enough ? I met peoples with result, they was happy..

Anyway, saying that I know you are honest in your approach, so please, stop this BS and I promise you to personnally take care they focus next time on my little scar in my donor ok ? And also, dont forget mwamba will have tons of choice to see himself the result... You will not think about dr nigam for doubling soon, you will be able to perform a full HT in europe... And with the new doubling protocol that allow him to bring 3/4 hair per graft.. just be patient because you flood (I hope you understand that as well as I understand you) and thats just make BS for nothing acctually. We are waiting for result arent we ?

----------


## Arashi

> Actually I seen the computer where they worked, when you are thousand circle I can just understand its difficult to found from a picture to another.. They are also Young peoples.. You want to blam dr nigam for that ?


 Yeah actually I DO blame NIgams for that !! He hired those people. If they're incompetent and make a fabricated, ridiculous analysis like this, it's Nigams responsibility ! It's his name on the picture. 




> And also, dont forget mwamba will have tons of choice to see himself the result...


 Cole was supposed to visit him. Never happened. I have a feeling we'll never hear from Mwamba either.

----------


## Arashi

Sorry Tom but I'm just extremely pissed at Nigams. He messed up your case, I'm convinced this wasn't an accident. Then he has an IT team that fabricates doctored result photo's. And you keep defending him ? It only pisses me off more, sorry.

----------


## tom vercetti

> Yeah actually I DO blame NIgams for that !! He hired those people. If they're incompetent and make a fabricated, ridiculous analysis like this, it's Nigams responsibility ! It's his name on the picture. 
> 
> 
> Cole was supposed to visit him. Never happened. I* have a feeling we'll never hear from Mwamba either*.


 if you continue in this way YES.. and everyone will be afraid to go in india for nothing. We all can say you thank you.. we will never get the test made by him maybe because of people like you. Do you understand that ?

----------


## Arashi

> if you continue in this way YES.. and everyone will be afraid to go in india for nothing. We all can say you thank you..


 Sorry but at this point, there's just no reasonable amount of doubt in my mind anymore that Nigams is a fraud. He's posting manufactured result photo's AGAIN. After this:

1) When Dr Nigams came to this board, he posted photoshopped patient results on his site. He later said it was his webdesigner who went rogue and did this on his own. http://postimg.org/image/ju8l872sn/ and this one: http://postimg.org/image/eo3qhea5x/
2) When Dr Nigams got confronted by the large amount of complaints regarding his weight clinic he lied about his clinic being his wife (or he lied on Indian television when he claimed it was his)
3) Dr Nigams once posted a patient photo showing 3 months time between pre and postop, where patient hairlength was about 6 cm difference (hair grows 1 cm/month)
4) Dr Nigams once posted a series of patient photo's with post-op dates in the future
5) Dr Nigams once posted patient photo's from another doctor
6) It turned out he's probably not a real doctor
7) Patients who can 'proof' his theories disappear into nowhere
8) There's a growing amount of complaints on Indian websites, stating his therapies don't work. According to Nigams this are his competitors
9) A forum member called some well known doctors in India. They all said they thought Nigams was a fr**d.
10) Nigams once claimed he was working with Dr Lauster. When forum members contacted Lausters' lab, they claimed they didn't work together at all

And now your case turns out to be unusable and his IT team keeps on posting manufactured result photo's. Really ... I don't have doubts anymore, sorry.

----------


## tom vercetti

> Sorry but at this point, there's just no reasonable amount of doubt in my mind anymore that Nigams is a fraud. He's posting manufactured result photo's AGAIN. After this:
> 
> 1) When Dr Nigams came to this board, he posted photoshopped patient results on his site. He later said it was his webdesigner who went rogue and did this on his own. http://postimg.org/image/ju8l872sn/ and this one: http://postimg.org/image/eo3qhea5x/
> 2) When Dr Nigams got confronted by the large amount of complaints regarding his weight clinic he lied about his clinic being his wife (or he lied on Indian television when he claimed it was his)
> 3) Dr Nigams once posted a patient photo showing 3 months time between pre and postop, where patient hairlength was about 6 cm difference (hair grows 1 cm/month)
> 4) Dr Nigams once posted a series of patient photo's with post-op dates in the future
> 5) Dr Nigams once posted patient photo's from another doctor
> 6) It turned out he's probably not a real doctor
> 7) Patients who can 'proof' his theories disappear into nowhere
> ...


 Ok copy paste again and again. We can call it "Arashi evidence" now.

----------


## Arashi

> Ok copy paste again and again. We can call it "Arashi evidence" now.


 Sorry Tom. I know you don't want to see it. I know you want to believe. I do too, really. But at this point .. Well I'll stop repeating myself. I've made my point. Good luck to you Tom. People will probably still want to follow your  case, so do keep posting, for them. But really, sorry, a meaningfull analysis is going to be impossible.

----------


## tom vercetti

thanks let us work on this case in peace now. See you in 6 months.

----------


## veca

> thanks let us work on this case in peace now. See you in 6 months.


 Tom, do you think he will now go away and leave us in peace to observe the development of the situation and your progress?  :Smile:

----------


## Arashi

> Tom, do you think he will now go away and leave us in peace to observe the development of the situation and your progress?


 Veca, you're really an asshole. Because I say that Nigams manipulates photo's (or his IT people) which is a FACT and that Tom's case is impossible to analyse (FACT as well), I should go away ? You just want to live in your dreamworld, fine, but others don't.

----------


## veca

> Veca, you're really an asshole. Because I say that Nigams manipulates photo's (or his IT people) which is a FACT and that Tom's case is impossible to analyse (FACT as well), I should go away ? You just want to live in your dreamworld, fine, but others don't.


 My friend, you said that the images were faked, but believe me it's enough to say it once. Ok, you do not believe in this, it's ok, then go out of this forum, and accept the fact that there is no cure, fix your life and disappear. What is your ultimate goal? What you want to achieve by constantly repeating that images are faked? You want the rest of us say that you're right?

----------


## Arashi

> My friend, you said that the images were faked, but believe me it's enough to say it once. Ok, you do not believe in this, it's ok, then go out of this forum, and accept the fact that there is no cure, fix your life and disappear. What is your ultimate goal? What you want to achieve by constantly repeating that images are faked? You want the rest of us say that you're right?


 I already said I'm not going to repeat myself, what's the use. Interesting stuff happens on this forum all the time, like the Dermaroller trial, it makes it worth visiting this forum. Everybody is welcome here, people you agree with and people you don't agree with. You're somebody who only wants to read opinions from people who confirm your dream image of Dr Nigams. Maybe you should be the one to leave then. I certainly won't and I'll always speak what I think, whether you like that or not.

----------


## veca

> I already said I'm not going to repeat myself, what's the use. Interesting stuff happens on this forum all the time, like the Dermaroller trial, it makes it worth visiting this forum. Everybody is welcome here, people you agree with and people you don't agree with. You're somebody who only wants to read opinions from people who confirm your dream image of Dr Nigams. Maybe you should be the one to leave then. I certainly won't and I'll always speak what I think, whether you like that or not.


 Ok, whatever. You are always welcome.

----------


## Pentarou

> thanks let us work on this case in peace now. See you in 6 months.


 Stay well in the meantime, Tom buddy.

----------


## mari0s

> My friend, you said that the images were faked, but believe me it's enough to say it once. O


 and, i repeat, you can always use this as natural reference mark
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...FWR3fmVRQU.jpg

----------


## gc83uk

Arashi is a respected opinion on these forums, he's not the kind of person to sit back and continuously criticise for no reason.  He's even been to Gho had his HST, so it's not as if the guy isn't proactive!  The points he has raised are valid whether you like it or not.

Tom: are you assuming that Dr Nigam is going to be able to find the exact same area of your donor on your next visit and photograph this area for analysis?  

Or are you not bothered about how much has regenerated?

Can you also confirm how many grafts were implanted back into your donor?

Thanks

----------


## gc83uk

> and, i repeat, you can always use this as natural reference mark
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...FWR3fmVRQU.jpg


 Marios I've just picked up the end of this conversation, can you confirm exactly which reference mark your referring to:

Are we talking about photo 1a strip left in that link?

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

yes thats true.


boldy can i ask 

should i feel guilty of letting my self getting stressed and depressed of my normal life difficultes, job-relationship etc?

is it all a programmed gene? or trying to avoid every person and difficulty to be a bit more happy will keep more hair?

----------


## hellouser

> yes thats true.
> 
> 
> boldy can i ask 
> 
> should i feel guilty of letting my self getting stressed and depressed of my normal life difficultes, job-relationship etc?
> 
> is it all a programmed gene? or trying to avoid every person and difficulty to be a bit more happy will keep more hair?


 Nothing you do outside of actual treatments will have any effect on your hair.

Not unless you kidnap some researchers and threaten them with their first born would they then actually do something about mens health.

2013... seriously... 2013 and no cure. How fvcking ridiculous is that.

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

i can do that we leave like mafia here due to crysis, very easy to beat somebody  :Smile:   or put some albanians do it,  :Smile: 


> Nothing you do outside of actual treatments will have any effect on your hair.
> 
> Not unless you kidnap some researchers and threaten them with their first born would they then actually do something about mens health.
> 
> 2013... seriously... 2013 and no cure. How fvcking ridiculous is that.

----------


## Henkeh91

Maybe a bit off topic, I can't find you tread Boldy. I've tried the search function without any success.

----------


## Boldy

> yes thats true.
> 
> 
> boldy can i ask 
> 
> should i feel guilty of letting my self getting stressed and depressed of my normal life difficultes, job-relationship etc?
> 
> is it all a programmed gene? or trying to avoid every person and difficulty to be a bit more happy will keep more hair?


 
Hey man,

its genetic, (don't ask me why, I know its crazy!) but it is, the dermap pailla overexpresses Androgen receptors. is sensitive for androgens, while the donore area dermal papillas do not. Your life style can speed up or slow down hairloss, (food, sleep and stress), but its not the actuall cause. by eating well, (the right balance of omega 3 and 6, sleeping well, and avoid stress, you can slow down hairloss, but in the end, we will go bald.

each cell is like a factory, and programmed. on beard hairs androgens works as a growth factor. My vision is to make use of this property and so these cells.

----------


## Boldy

Its in the chat archive, if you search back there 2 days ago, but a full post is coming within 1 hour  :Smile: .

----------


## hellouser

> i can do that we leave like mafia here due to crysis, very easy to beat somebody   or put some albanians do it,


 I know, I was in Greece in 2009 in February just after the riots started... one of the subway trains was set on fire a day before I arrived in Athens.

When it comes to protesting, the Greeks know how to do it.

I was at a protest in Canada, most people were sitting on the sidewalk in a group... what a failure.

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

i hope we do it


> Hey man,
> 
> its genetic, (don't ask me why, I know its crazy!) but it is, the dermap pailla overexpresses Androgen receptors. is sensitive for androgens, while the donore area dermal papillas do not. Your life style can speed up or slow down hairloss, (food, sleep and stress), but its not the actuall cause. by eating well, (the right balance of omega 3 and 6, sleeping well, and avoid stress, you can slow down hairloss, but in the end, we will go bald.
> 
> each cell is like a factory, and programmed. on beard hairs androgens works as a growth factor. My vision is to make use of this property and so these cells.

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

a guess what that you saw was stedents mostly. just take a trip deeper in smaller towns of the country and you will be shocked with dealers.corrupted police whores ...gangs... it is becoming a shit


> I know, I was in Greece in 2009 in February just after the riots started... one of the subway trains was set on fire a day before I arrived in Athens.
> 
> When it comes to protesting, the Greeks know how to do it.
> 
> I was at a protest in Canada, most people were sitting on the sidewalk in a group... what a failure.

----------


## mari0s

> Marios I've just picked up the end of this conversation, can you confirm exactly which reference mark your referring to:
> 
> Are we talking about photo 1a strip left in that link?


 Look at the nevus just under the circle on the first image (i've made a red arrow to see itbetter)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...FWR3fmVRQU.jpg

it could be use easily as a "natural" mark, altough i'm not be sure the position of the same nevus on the second image

----------


## LMS

I hope you don't mind when I said you invited me.  I'm just looking for a place with a bit better signal to noise ratio and to of course monitor your progress.

My username is the same as here.

In the mean time I'd just like to say, irregardless if this whole "Nigams" thing succeeds , I think this is what we need.  More renegades so to speak.  I find it laughable how people moan and complain about the FDA and their stringent approval processes, the lack of transparency these big biotechs provide and the seemingly snail pace they move at.

And here comes Dr Nigams someone who we've all been waiting for.  Someone transparent (relatively speaking of course), who works swiftly and keeps the community in loop.  What do we get?  A bunch of people doubting him and complaining about safety.

I say choose one you sh.itheads.  You wanna go back to the big biotechs who have given us so much in the past 20 years?  Go right a head. If you wanna go put your faith in that maybe you guys can have a full head of hair in 50 years lol.

Me?  I'm glad places like India and people like Dr Nigams exist. We can quickly and swiftly test new protocols and we dont have to waste 10 years just to find out some protocol doesn't work.

I'm not saying I think Dr nigams will work, hell, theres a good chance hes a fraud but atleast we're doing something.


tl:dr gotta risk it for the biscuit

----------


## lilpauly

> Lilpauly if you are considering a transplant...than all hope is lost because you have tried every concoction on the planet to save your hair. I will have given up hope.
> 
> Transplant is the ONLY way I can have hair again.. Sucks. On top of that, I'd have to go through the embarrassment at work and deal with transplant jokes as a 27 year old. Terrible.
> 
> I hate balding. Damn this curse.


 It sucks I stop with a hardcore regimen and my hair suffers. Let me tell u the vehicles for Minox is garbage. I'm getting promox, proxiphen is a stable and capillogain has been good to me. When I was just using ru and liogaone my hairline took a beating

----------


## mari0s

> What do we get?  A bunch of people doubting him and complaining about safety.


 funny thing is when replicel (the only thing we'll see before 2020) will come out, it will need to go a clinic with a lab to use their cell therapy, so i wonder if there will be the same high concern to go an indonesian, chinese, malaysian clinic than go to Nigams

----------


## gc83uk

> Look at the nevus just under the circle on the first image (i've made a red arrow to see itbetter)
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...FWR3fmVRQU.jpg
> 
> it could be use easily as a "natural" mark, altough i'm not be sure the position of the same nevus on the second image


 Good spot.  Are you aware if these 'original high res' versions of the photos have been published online?

I want to be able to verify how many hairs per graft are present in each FU in this red circle.  Nigam has already detailed as above, however would be nice to confirm it.

We also need to make sure this area has actually had FU's extracted as the after photo is not the same area (as confirmed by Nigam himself and more recently Tom).  

If we can't verify such, then the sample area as a test is dead, regardless of how many months Boldy and co tell us we should wait for  :Wink: 

And yes that 2nd photo with the arrow and possible birthmark may well be the same area.

----------


## Arashi

> If we can't verify such, then the sample area as a test is dead, regardless of how many months Boldy and co tell us we should wait for


 Not sure how you can ever verify that ? It's impossible. The only reasonable analysis would be to do a hair count of the whole donor area before and after. And this is really impossible in this case, since Nigams shaved AFTER the pre-op pictures were taken, no tattoo's were made and we can't distinguish extractions from implants. 

I respect that you're even still looking at it Gaz, it would be great if we could say something useful about all this in the end, but it's simply impossible. Nigams has to get a slick bald NW7 and give him 10k grafts. And of course shave the guy before the pre-op pics. That's THE way to prove his work. But trust my words, this is never going to happen.

----------


## gc83uk

> Not sure how you can ever verify that ? It's impossible. The only reasonable analysis would be to do a hair count of the whole donor area before and after. And this is really impossible in this case, since Nigams shaved AFTER the pre-op pictures were taken, no tattoo's were made and we can't distinguish extractions from implants. 
> 
> I respect that you're even still looking at it Gaz, it would be great if we could say something useful about all this in the end, but it's simply impossible. Nigams has to get a slick bald NW7 and give him 10k grafts. And of course shave the guy before the pre-op pics. That's THE way to prove his work. But trust my words, this is never going to happen.


 You're right, but that isn't going to happen anytime soon.  In fact to the best of my knowledge this has never been done. EVER  :Smile: 

Obviously we'll be doing this with my HST next month...

But surely this sample area is a worthy take on whether it works or not.  I understand you're extremely skeptical, especially with Nigams track record. However if we have a sample area of 100 grafts which we can clearly see have been wounded multiple times and we can see which grafts  (e.g 45 x 2 hair grafts, 30 x 1 hair grafts and 25 x 3 hair grafts) have been extracted and re-implanted then if these 100 grafts (195 hairs) show 100 grafts/195 hairs regrowth then it will be difficult to refute it.

The only possible explanation not to believe it could be that you think Nigam has faked the sample area with bloody spots to make it look like something has happened, obviously then it will appear as 100&#37; regrowth. This is what you're on about right?

Btw you said 'we can't distinguish extractions from implants.'

I thought the part-grafts were implanted back into the extraction points, no?

----------


## FearTheLoss

> You're right, but that isn't going to happen anytime soon.  In fact to the best of my knowledge this has never been done. EVER 
> 
> Obviously we'll be doing this with my HST next month...
> 
> But surely this sample area is a worthy take on whether it works or not.  I understand you're extremely skeptical, especially with Nigams track record. However if we have a sample area of 100 grafts which we can clearly see have been wounded multiple times and we can see which grafts  (e.g 45 x 2 hair grafts, 30 x 1 hair grafts and 25 x 3 hair grafts) have been extracted and re-implanted then if these 100 grafts (195 hairs) show 100 grafts/195 hairs regrowth then it will be difficult to refute it.
> 
> The only possible explanation not to believe it could be that you think Nigam has faked the sample area with bloody spots to make it look like something has happened, obviously then it will appear as 100% regrowth. This is what you're on about right?


 
Well we will at least know by October what HST regeneration is, what dr mwamba says about donor doubling, what pilofocus is about, histogen update at the conference as well...

----------


## sausage

> What Nigams needs to do is get a NW7 to his clinic and give him 15k grafts.


 
If he pays me £20,000 to do it, then I'll do it.

----------


## Arashi

> You're right, but that isn't going to happen anytime soon.  In fact to the best of my knowledge this has never been done. EVER 
> 
> Obviously we'll be doing this with my HST next month...
> 
> But surely this sample area is a worthy take on whether it works or not.  I understand you're extremely skeptical, especially with Nigams track record. However if we have a sample area of 100 grafts which we can clearly see have been wounded multiple times and we can see which grafts  (e.g 45 x 2 hair grafts, 30 x 1 hair grafts and 25 x 3 hair grafts) have been extracted and re-implanted then if these 100 grafts (195 hairs) show 100 grafts/195 hairs regrowth then it will be difficult to refute it.
> 
> The only possible explanation not to believe it could be that you think Nigam has faked the sample area with bloody spots to make it look like something has happened, obviously then it will appear as 100&#37; regrowth. This is what you're on about right?


 First of all, I would never use a sample area Nigams pointed out, way too suspicious. IF you want to pursue this road, then at least take a different sample area, from a different strip.

Secondly Nigams split the grafts In Vitro. So he ejected the whole graft, split it and implanted both halves back (at least that's how I understood it). So monitoring a donor sample area without knowing what he implanted back there is useless.

----------


## hellouser

> Well we will at least know by October what HST regeneration is, what dr mwamba says about donor doubling, what pilofocus is about, histogen update at the conference as well...


 Replicel starting Phase II trials in a few months as well.

We need to make it very, VERY VERY clear that we're going to demand a 2015 release date of both Histogen AND Replicel. I'll go batshit if they dont meet that fvcking deadline. Aderans already failed miserably with their 2014 target and we're 4 months away from that as well... how god damn sad is that? They would have easily had *thousands* of patients lining up on day one and then some on following days and weeks once word spread of a PROPER solution that makes finasteride COMPLETELY obsolete as it should be.

----------


## Arashi

> what dr mwamba says about donor doubling,


 My prediction: we'll see a picture of Mwamba shaking hands with Nigams and then ... we'll never hear anything again about it.

----------


## gc83uk

> First of all, I would NEVER use a sample area Nigams pointed out, way too suspicious. IF you want to pursue this road, then at least take a different sample area, from a different strip.
> 
> Secondly Nigams split the grafts In Vitro. So he ejected the whole graft, split it and implanted both halves back (at least that's how I understood it). So monitoring the donor without knowing what he implanted back there is useless.


 Yea I get all that, but surely he just implants one half in each extraction point of the donor and the other half in the recipient.  So if we can see 50 bloody spots on the photo, then we know that half of that graft will regrow (fully apparently) in each of those 50 grafts.

What we won't know of course is whether it was a 1, 2 or 3 hair which has been reimplanted in each of those extraction points.  We could take an average figure of course, but hardly ideal.

It was only when I got the the 2nd paragraph of typing the above I got what you meant  :Smile:

----------


## hellouser

> My prediction: we'll see a picture of Mwamba shaking hands with Nigams and then ... we'll never hear anything again about it.


 Reach out to Mwamba after.

Is doubling supposed to use any injections of any kind or would it still require FDA trial shit?

----------


## Arashi

> Yea I get all that, but surely he just implants one half in each extraction point of the donor and the other half in the recipient.  So if we can see 50 bloody spots on the photo, then we know that half of that graft will regrow (fully apparently) in each of those 50 grafts.
> 
> What we won't know of course is whether it was a 1, 2 or 3 hair which has been reimplanted in each of those extraction points.  We could take an average figure of course, but hardly ideal.


 Hmmm... If your theory is correct, then we should see as many red spots in donor as in recipient, right ? If this were to be true, then we could most probably indeed at least get a rough idea if all this works or not. At least, IF we can even pinpoint the donor area in a few months.

----------


## gc83uk

> Hmmm... If your theory is correct, then we should see as many red spots in donor as in recipient, right ? If this were to be true, then we could most probably indeed at least get a rough idea if all this works or not. At least, IF we can even pinpoint the donor area in a few months.


 Exactly!

As Marios pointed out there is a small freckle/birthmark just below the sample area.

Problem is though, how do we know which of the 1, 2 and 3 hair grafts are going back in the donor?  Unless of course he does it one-by-one, e.g:  Extract using FUE the entire graft disect it or whatever he does in Vitro, and put half of it straight back in the just extracted hole of the donor and the other half straight in the recipient.

Doing it like that would be painfully slow, but if it was like that then the regrowth of the donor should theoretically match up exactly with what was there before, assuming 100% regrowth.

I think it's pretty obvious though, that they make all the extractions and then do the disecting in Vitro and later implant in the donor and recipient, so basically they are all mixed up and none of the original grafts are implanted back to their original extraction points unfortunately.

----------


## Arashi

> I think it's pretty obvious though, that they make all the extractions and then do the disecting in Vitro and later implant in the donor and recipient, so basically they are all mixed up and none of the original grafts are implanted back to their original extraction points unfortunately.


 Agreed that he's doing it in batches, not per graft. If we could pinpoint 2 sample area's for each say 100 grafts, on average they should then contain pretty much as many hairs as pre-op (will vary a bit of course but should be roughly the same, if there were 200 hairs preop we'd expect like 180-220 there to be postop).

But man I was just looking at the photo's again. It's really a mess. I wanted to see if it's possible to verify how many extraction points there are in the donor. In which case you'll have to link the split strips (like A1 to A2  to A3) and this is pretty impossible already since the photo's are horrible. I can link A1 to A2 but not to A3. It seems there's just a piece missing. And then recipient, it's impossible to do even a guestimate of the total amount of red dots since a lot of the recipient is missing in the photo's.

----------


## Arashi

Really, is A3 even the same strip as A1 ? According to Nigam's documentation it is (both 'strip 1'), but I doubt it. A1 seems thicker than A3.

Same thing for strip 2: I can link B1 to B3. However I can't link B2, it's a horrible photo again. And it seems also there's just a piece missing there.

Strip 3: can't link both parts.

----------


## gc83uk

> Really, is A3 even the same strip as A1 ? According to Nigam's documentation it is (both 'strip 1'), but I doubt it. A1 seems thicker than A3.
> 
> Same thing for strip 2: I can link B1 to B3. However I can't link B2, it's a horrible photo again. And it seems also there's just a piece missing there.
> 
> Strip 3: can't link both parts.


 I had that same issue when I was going through them a few weeks back, I gave up tbh.

We just need to find a photo showing the sample area with that freckle below it, that's if the photo even exists.

Without that photo then the sample area test is over already. Taking photographs next month etc, what would be the point?

----------


## Arashi

> I had that same issue when I was going through them a few weeks back, I gave up tbh.
> 
> We just need to find a photo showing the sample area with that freckle below it, that's if the photo even exists.


 These photo's are horrible. Take a look at strip 4. According to the postop picture, strip 4 is just one part. But if you look at the preop photo of strip 4, you see 2 parts !! Strip 4 is way smaller postop than it is preop !?!! Actually it seems that the postop strip is half the size of the preop strip !?!?!

Really, I don't see how anyone could analyse this. It's one big mess.

----------


## Arashi

Supposedly this preop strip: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=10enhjr&s=5
looks like this postop: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2rdxogk&s=5

RRRRRRIGHT

----------


## hiilikeyourbeard

Jesus Christ, arashi... you need a life man. we get it, you know he's a fraud! now can't you **** off?

----------


## gc83uk

> Supposedly this preop strip: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=10enhjr&s=5
> looks like this postop: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2rdxogk&s=5
> 
> RRRRRRIGHT


 Umm, it could be the same strip, just zoomed in on the after pic, but far from ideal.

You know come to think of it, when you look at those extraction points, it doesn't look like anything has been reimplanted.

Come to think of it, didn't Tom have all the grafts placed in the recipient area, as in both halfs?

----------


## Arashi

> Jesus Christ, arashi... you need a life man. we get it, you know he's a fraud! now can't you **** off?


 Unlike you, I'm actually doing something. I'm trying to analyze the situation. You just sit there and mock. You've done nothing. If you want to get something done, do it yourself, don't depend on others. Start researching the photo's !

----------


## gc83uk

> Jesus Christ, arashi... you need a life man. we get it, you know he's a fraud! now can't you **** off?


 What is the point in this comment, seriously?

----------


## hellouser

> What is the point in this comment, seriously?


 He was trying to get laid.

----------


## Arashi

Anyway Gaz, strip 4 postop really is a different strip than the one in the preop. It's not just the size of the strip: look at the form, depicted by the unshaven hair. It's really different

----------


## Arashi

> You know come to think of it, when you look at those extraction points, it doesn't look like anything has been reimplanted.
> 
> Come to think of it, didn't Tom have all the grafts placed in the recipient area, as in both halfs


 I was just reading back the thread. In the first few pages Nigams says half went into donor, other half into recipient.

----------


## veca

Tom, how are you? Can you post your new photos?

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

also Dr Nigam where are you? any news?

----------


## lilpauly

> also Dr Nigam where are you? any news?


 ^people said some hurtful things about him, I'm flowing boldy progress

----------


## mari0s

> also Dr Nigam where are you? any news?


 he posted some days ago

----------


## veca

I am in touch with Dr. Nigam

----------


## garethbale

> ^people said some hurtful things about him, I'm flowing boldy progress


 No one said anything hurtful (other than that clown Ironman).  It was just criticism which he should expect, and most of it was constructive.

I would like Dr Nigams to come back and post though.  If he's eager to prove his doubters wrong he should.

Any chance you (or anyone) could encourage him to come back?

----------


## NewestGuy

> No one said anything hurtful (other than that clown Ironman).  It was just criticism which he should expect, and most of it was constructive.
> 
> I would like Dr Nigams to come back and post though.  If he's eager to prove his doubters wrong he should.
> 
> Any chance you (or anyone) could encourage him to come back?


 In all fairness I have seen at least three people on this site user the word "fraud" in reference to him.

----------


## veca

Tom my friend, how are you? I think you are now preoccupied with girls since you got a new hairline :-) Please post your new photo, do not make me come to you, to force you do that, and shave your head completely to see donor regeneration! :-)

----------


## NewestGuy

> Tom my friend, how are you? I think you are now preoccupied with girls since you got a new hairline :-) Please post your new photo, do not make me come to you, to force you do that, and shave your head completely to see donor regeneration! :-)


 Uh oh....another Nigam patient has disappeared. We've got to find out where all these bodies are being buried so we can check their growth.  :Wink:

----------


## garethbale

> Uh oh....another Nigam patient has disappeared. We've got to find out where all these bodies are being buried so we can check their growth.


 haha

don't worry, Tom will be back I'm sure

----------


## NewestGuy

> haha
> 
> don't worry, Tom will be back I'm sure


 Yeah, it's been almost three months since this thread started and I'm dying of anticipation to start hearing some feedback.

----------

