# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  If it were PGD2.....

## NeedHairASAP

If it were PGD2 why don't transplanted hairs, or horseshoe hairs, fall out?


have they tested bald areas and non-bald areas on the SAME scalp?

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## Pate

Yes they did test the same scalp from what I recall. The balding areas had elevated PGD2, the non-balding areas didn't.

The most likely answer IMO is that PG imbalance is localised to the affected follicles, and the transplanted hair follicle doesn't have an androgen response so that doesn't start the cascading chain of events that ends in PG imbalance and miniaturised follicles.

But I'm just speculating.

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## NeedHairASAP

> Yes they did test the same scalp from what I recall. The balding areas had elevated PGD2, the non-balding areas didn't.
> 
> The most likely answer IMO is that PG imbalance is localised to the affected follicles, and the transplanted hair follicle doesn't have an androgen response so that doesn't start the cascading chain of events that ends in PG imbalance and miniaturised follicles.
> 
> But I'm just speculating.


 sounds reasonable

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## Conpecia

> If it were PGD2 why don't transplanted hairs, or horseshoe hairs, fall out?


 I asked this question a month ago when all this prostaglandin stuff exploded and I never got an answer. It doesn't make sense that transplanted hairs would remain if the frontal area is susceptible to increased levels of PGD2 unless the follicles themselves are resistant. I have never understood why transplanted hairs do not fall out, other than that they are somehow "DHT resistant." If heightened levels of PGD2 exist in my frontal area and that alone causes my baldness then why the hell would transplanted hairs stick around in the same environment?? So frustratingly complex...

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## gutted

> I asked this question a month ago when all this prostaglandin stuff exploded and I never got an answer. It doesn't make sense that transplanted hairs would remain if the frontal area is susceptible to increased levels of PGD2 unless the follicles themselves are resistant. I have never understood why transplanted hairs do not fall out, other than that they are somehow "DHT resistant." If heightened levels of PGD2 exist in my frontal area and that alone causes my baldness then why the hell would transplanted hairs stick around in the same environment?? So frustratingly complex...


 transplanted hairs dont fall out cause over time androgen levels *natrually* decline and the people who get transplants are usually individuals who are in thier 30s/40's/50's etc at which point in thier life this androgen level decline occurs. 

Also people who get transplants are usually norwood 4/5/6/7 - at this point *the problem* was already addressed by the immune system hence why it no longer causes any damage to the newly transplanted hairs. There is nothing differnet than balding hairs and transplanted hairs, depsite what you may have been told.

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## Conpecia

> The most likely answer IMO is that PG imbalance is localised to the affected follicles, and the transplanted hair follicle doesn't have an androgen response so that doesn't start the cascading chain of events that ends in PG imbalance and miniaturised follicles.


 Then the PGD2 is not causing the hair loss, right? The PG imbalance is external to the follicle and affects it. Putting another follicle from the same head in that area should cause the same result, but it doesn't. Meaning the follicle itself is different, somehow resistant to the bad PG? But if elevated levels of PGD2 are the root cause of baldness wouldn't that mean that, no matter what, hair would fall out in an area with elevated levels of PGD2? In men without mpb, there are apparently much lower levels of PGD2. It's not an issue of these men having PGD2 resistant hair follicles. At least that's the argument. But do you see the discrepancy? The follicle itself, the one from the back of my balding head, should not be "resistant" to PGD2 imbalance if the only reason another guy keeps his hair is because he has no PG imbalance. It's like people are combining DHT and PGD2 rationales. If PGD2 is the sole cause then transplants should not work, unless there are both PGD2 resistant follicles on the backs of our heads AND men without mpb have below-threshold levels of PGD2 in the fronts of their heads. So are there guys out there with PGD2 resistant follicles all over their heads AND low PGD2 levels? Are there guys with sky-high PGD2 levels who nevertheless do not go bald because they are blessed with PGD2 resistant follicles? Are we just double-cursed? That all seems pretty ridiculous...

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## Follicle Death Row

I think the follicle has to be sensitive to the PGD2 levels in the first place. Of course this is just me trying to reason things logically so it's just speculation but I would assume that for a follicle to miniturise it would:

1) Have to be subjected to high levels of PGD2
2) Be sensitive to high levels (i.e. have the appropriate receptor)

I assume both criteria have to be met. So if you transplant a donor follicle it will be subjected to 1) in the recipient but it is not 2).

I don't know really, just a thought.

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## neversaynever

> Then the PGD2 is not causing the hair loss, right? The PG imbalance is external to the follicle and affects it. Putting another follicle from the same head in that area should cause the same result, but it doesn't. Meaning the follicle itself is different, somehow resistant to the bad PG? But if elevated levels of PGD2 are the root cause of baldness wouldn't that mean that, no matter what, hair would fall out in an area with elevated levels of PGD2? In men without mpb, there are apparently much lower levels of PGD2. It's not an issue of these men having PGD2 resistant hair follicles. At least that's the argument. But do you see the discrepancy? The follicle itself, the one from the back of my balding head, should not be "resistant" to PGD2 imbalance if the only reason another guy keeps his hair is because he has no PG imbalance. It's like people are combining DHT and PGD2 rationales. If PGD2 is the sole cause then transplants should not work, unless there are both PGD2 resistant follicles on the backs of our heads AND men without mpb have below-threshold levels of PGD2 in the fronts of their heads. So are there guys out there with PGD2 resistant follicles all over their heads AND low PGD2 levels? Are there guys with sky-high PGD2 levels who nevertheless do not go bald because they are blessed with PGD2 resistant follicles? Are we just double-cursed? That all seems pretty ridiculous...


 I dont agree with the idea of PGd2 being a kind of poison for follicles. I think it plays a role in the phases of hair growth. With levels going up and down along with other PGs to move hair through different growth cycles.

Problem for us is pgd2 is being over produced, possibly because of the DHT issue. Maybe the malfunction is that balding scalps react to DHT sensitivity by surround follicles by PGd2, and thus making us bald.

Blocking PGd2 is no cure, because even non balding areas have pgd2, just in lower numbers. Unless it has been proven that PGd2 is not needed by follicles?

It would seem that reducing pgd2 might save vellus hairs and terminal hairs, but until we understand exactly WHY pgd2 levels are so high...we are clueless. 

PG balance seems to be the key, but we need more info on the relationship between DHT and pgd2.

I was also under the impression that PGd2 is local to follicles, hence why transplants work. If a follicle is sensitive to DHT, PGd2 is produced in high amounts, eventually stalling it into a resting phase (surely PGd2 is needed for the resting phase?). Transplanted hair is more resistant to DHT, and thus, pg balance around that follicle remain normal

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## gutted

yes pgd2 is involved in hair follicle cycling.

i suspect its *highly elevated* in the telogen phase of the hair and is in low numbers in the other growth phases.

Its only logical to find an abudance of pgd2 in the balding scalp since *most of the follicles are in the RESTING PHASE*

Blocking pgd2, which minoxidil can and does do, may signal those resting follciles out into the anagen phase.

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## 2020

> i suspect its *highly elevated* in the telogen phase of the hair and is in low numbers in the other growth phases.
> 
> Its only logical to find an abudance of pgd2 in the balding scalp since [B]most of the follicles are in the RESTING PHASE


 bingo! I think that study actually says something about that where PGD2 levels go up right after hair changes its cycle

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## beatinghairloss

> transplanted hairs dont fall out cause over time androgen levels *natrually* decline and the people who get transplants are usually individuals who are in thier 30s/40's/50's etc at which point in thier life this androgen level decline occurs. 
> 
> Also people who get transplants are usually norwood 4/5/6/7 - at this point *the problem* was already addressed by the immune system hence why it no longer causes any damage to the newly transplanted hairs. There is nothing differnet than balding hairs and transplanted hairs, depsite what you may have been told.


 I agree with you in that individual hair "genetics" is hogwash. The areas that men thin and completely lose there hair follows the area known as the galea aponeurotica. If this is considered coincidence then people need to take a hard look at there over all reasoning. Again I wonder if all of these possible causes, DHT, PGD2, inflammation are not all but one of a two part process to induce balding. Or rather that you need a tight galea aponeurotica for anything to actually cause genetic hair loss and that the genetic is merely the shape at which you scalp is constructed and the degree to which mucles pull on this area. Everything else is just environmental factors increasing or decreasing these DHT or PGD2's.hhmmmmm.....

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## gutted

> bingo! I think that study actually says something about that where PGD2 levels go up right after hair changes its cycle


 loool dude here is the study which clarifies this for you -> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14632179

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## 2020

> loool dude here is the study which clarifies this for you -> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14632179


 what are you saying?

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## gutted

> what are you saying?


 what i said in the last post...this study confirms it.

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## 2020

> what i said in the last post...this study confirms it.


 this was your LAST POST:




> loool dude here is the study which clarifies this for you -> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14632179


 ???

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## gutted

> this was your LAST POST:
> 
> 
> 
> ???


 >>>>

i suspect its highly elevated in the telogen phase of the hair and is in low numbers in the other growth phases.

Its only logical to find an abudance of pgd2 in the balding scalp since [B]most of the follicles are in the RESTING PHASE

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## 2020

> >>>>
> 
> i suspect its highly elevated in the telogen phase of the hair and is in low numbers in the other growth phases.
> 
> Its only logical to find an abudance of pgd2 in the balding scalp since [B]most of the follicles are in the RESTING PHASE


 it would be interesting to test this on body hair.... if PGD2 is elevated in "bald spots" on your body, then your theory would be right

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## gutted

> it would be interesting to test this on body hair.... if PGD2 is elevated in "bald spots" on your body, then your theory would be right


 its not a theory, the study is there, all be it on mice...

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## neversaynever

> its not a theory, the study is there, all be it on mice...


 What regulates PG levels?

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## gutted

> What regulates PG levels?


 cox 2 enzyme.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14632179

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## gutted

> What regulates PG levels?


 the problem looks as if it is cox 2 rather than pgd2.

mice that were genetically bred to overexpress cox2 developed alopecia however using a cox inhibitor restored hair growth.

theres been anecdotal reports of regwoth of hair from cox 2 inhibitors such as sulfasazine and benaxoprofen.

i dont think blocking pgd2 will yeild any dramatic results where as blocking cox2 has already regrown hair on nw7 scalps.

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## neversaynever

> the problem looks as if it is cox 2 rather than pgd2.
> 
> mice that were genetically bred to overexpress cox2 developed alopecia however using a cox inhibitor restored hair growth.
> 
> theres been anecdotal reports of regwoth of hair from cox 2 inhibitors such as sulfasazine and benaxoprofen.
> 
> i dont think blocking pgd2 will yeild any dramatic results where as blocking cox2 has already regrown hair on nw7 scalps.


 Then why is everyone talking about PGd2? We seem to need some level of pgd2 for hairs to go into a resting phase. 

What regulates cox 2?  :Big Grin: 

I wonder how far down the chain we'll need to go to find the link to DHT. 

Aparently, cox-2 inhibiting could cause blood pressure problems, as prostaglandins regulate blood pressure. So perhaps inhibiting pgd2 would be safer.

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/conten.../E838.abstract

This guys say DHT alters cox-2 levels.

"Thus we conclude that DHT differentially influences COX-2 levels under physiological and pathophysiological conditions in HCASMC. This effect of DHT on COX-2 involves AR-dependent and- independent mechanisms, depending on the physiological state of the cell"

So is that it? The role of DHT is directly related to Cox 2 levels? I give up. This is stupid.

Bye.

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## gutted

> Then why is everyone talking about PGd2? We seem to need some level of pgd2 for hairs to go into a resting phase. 
> 
> What regulates cox 2? 
> 
> I wonder how far down the chain we'll need to go to find the link to DHT. 
> 
> Aparently, cox-2 inhibiting could cause blood pressure problems, as prostaglandins regulate blood pressure. So perhaps inhibiting pgd2 would be safer. I give up.
> 
> This is stupid.


 im not sure what regulates cox 2.

i think blocking this enzyme for a while can result in regeneration. ideally topical cox 2 inhibotors would be a better option to avoid any sides.

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## 25 going on 65

> I agree with you in that individual hair "genetics" is hogwash. The areas that men thin and completely lose there hair follows the area known as the galea aponeurotica. If this is considered coincidence then people need to take a hard look at there over all reasoning. Again I wonder if all of these possible causes, DHT, PGD2, inflammation are not all but one of a two part process to induce balding. Or rather that you need a tight galea aponeurotica for anything to actually cause genetic hair loss and that the genetic is merely the shape at which you scalp is constructed and the degree to which mucles pull on this area. Everything else is just environmental factors increasing or decreasing these DHT or PGD2's.hhmmmmm.....


 But then why do hairs transplanted away from the galea aponeurotica still miniaturize in men who have MPB (even when moved to the forearm)? While hairs from the horseshoe region, or even body hairs, can continue growing when transplanted to the galea aponeurotica region of the scalp?

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## 2020

gutted, then how would you explain the fact that lowering COX-2 would also lower good prostaglandins - PGE2, PGF2... why is that?

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## gutted

> gutted, then how would you explain the fact that lowering COX-2 would also lower good prostaglandins - PGE2, PGF2... why is that?


 i cant...it probably wont lower pge2, pgf2 levels drastically.

the studies are there, the mouse regrew hair when given a cox 2 inhibitor.

cox 2 is overexpressed during the telogen phase, it would be ok to assume pge2, pgf2 levels decline during this phase too *if* they are beneifical for/promote hair growth.
All hairs on a bald scalp are in telogen, so it makes sense cox2 is over expressed -> resulting in increased pgd2 in balding scalps

*actual* people have regrown hair using cox 2 inhibitors, so far no one has regrown hair using pgd2 inhibitors, im not saying it wont work, i think targeting the enzyme rather than the proitein is more powerful.

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## 2020

> i cant...it probably wont lower pge2, pgf2 levels drastically.


 yes it will... PGE2 is already lower in bald scalps

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## gutted

> yes it will... PGE2 is already lower in bald scalps


 your not sure of that.

like i said, there are *actual* reports of people growing hair through cox 2 inhibitors.

i also think 5 lox should be inhibited too.

loreal patent ->  http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...%22hair+growth

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## 2020

> your not sure of that.


 huh? unsure of what? lower PGE2 levels in balding people?





> like i said, there are *actual* reports of people growing hair through cox 2 inhibitors.
> 
> i also think 5 lox should be inhibited too.
> 
> loreal patent ->  http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...%22hair+growth


 I know I know... I actually found that connection first on this very forum. You're a little late. Still, this only proves that prostaglandin "modification" will grow hair but I'm pretty sure blocking COX-2 is the wrong way of doing it

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## gutted

> huh? unsure of what? lower PGE2 levels in balding people?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know I know... I actually found that connection first on this very forum. You're a little late. Still, this only proves that prostaglandin "modification" will grow hair but I'm pretty sure blocking COX-2 is the wrong way of doing it


 dude, i couldnt give a rats ass!

all i want to do is grow hair on my temples. I now know inhibiting cox2 and 5 lox provided me with one hair way below my hairline a few years ago which is still here to do this day. It was a similar fashion as to how those people on arthritis drugs grew hair. it looked weird.
You would think this hair would have fallen out by now, however its still here.

Supplying hairs with pge2 will probably end up like minox, and the hairs will fall out as soon as treatment is stopped.

Well why dont some of you's try blocking pgd2 and others block cox2. That way we wont need to wait twice as long to find out which one works.

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## neversaynever

> dude, i couldnt give a rats ass!
> 
> all i want to do is grow hair on my temples. I now know inhibiting cox2 and 5 lox provided me with one hair way below my hairline a few years ago which is still here to do this day. It was a similar fashion as to how those people on arthritis drugs grew hair. it looked weird.
> You would think this hair would have fallen out by now, however its still here.
> 
> Supplying hairs with pge2 will probably end up like minox, and the hairs will fall out as soon as treatment is stopped.
> 
> Well why dont some of you's try blocking pgd2 and others block cox2. That way we wont need to wait twice as long to find out which one works.


 If PGd2 is actualy needed, as part of a follicles resting phase, what eliminates it?

So lets say when its telogen time, pgd2 levels increase. But when its time to grow hair again, those PGd2 levels should decrease. What makes it decrease? It all has to go somewhere...

I think thats whats happening. A follicle is resting, so PGD2 levels increase. Then the follicle makes hair again, but PGd2 levels remain relatively high. Which forces it back into resting too quickly, and even more PGD2 builds. Then grows again. Until eventually, the build up of PGd2 is too much...

So in a healthy cycling hair follicle, what kills of PGd2 to take follicles into anagen phase?

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## gutted

> If PGd2 is actualy needed, as part of a follicles resting phase, what eliminates it?
> 
> So lets say when its telogen time, pgd2 levels increase. But when its time to grow hair again, those PGd2 levels should decrease. What makes it decrease? It all has to go somewhere...


 good question, i have no idea, but it could be androgens or the balance of other prostglandins.




> I think thats whats happening. A follicle is resting, so PGD2 levels increase. Then the follicle makes hair again, but PGd2 levels remain relatively high. Which forces it back into resting too quickly, and even more PGD2 builds. Then grows again. Until eventually, the build up of PGd2 is too much...
> 
> So in a healthy cycling hair follicle, what kills of PGd2 to take follicles into anagen phase?


 

Like you explained cox2 and pgd2 is probably part of the hair cycling, and is elevated in telogen and subsequently downregulated during anagen - this could explain why pgd2 was elevated in balding scalps since most follciles are in telogen.

the hair follicle shuts down production of a terminal hair because of accumulated damage by the immune system.

Rogaine sorts this imbalance out yet it loses effectiveness over time, probably because the underlying damage isnt being addressed.

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## 2020

Is it possible that excess PGD2 is THE RESULT of follicles being in resting phase and not the other way around?

gutted: what topical cox-2 inhibitors are you using right now?

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## gutted

> Is it possible that excess PGD2 is THE RESULT of follicles being in resting phase and not the other way around?
> 
> gutted: what topical cox-2 inhibitors are you using right now?


 no i dont think so, i think its part of the hair follicle cycle.

i havent started any topical ones yet. 

im on an internal cox 2 blocker.

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## 2020

> no i dont think so, i think its part of the hair follicle cycle.
> 
> i havent started any topical ones yet. 
> 
> im on an internal cox 2 blocker.


 so how exactly will Histogen fix that problem with excessive PGD2 on your scalp?

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## gutted

> so how exactly will Histogen fix that problem with excessive PGD2 on your scalp?


 histogen wont "fix" the pgd2 problem, because it isnt a problem. 

Histogen will stimulate the growth of hairs, possibly via stimulating the hairs to regenenerate. Bear in mind, histogen (regenica) is used to aid in scarless healing. This makes me think it works via wound regeneration.

Depending on whethere your hormonal levels have balanced out as you age, the histogen hairs *can* last forever if not then the hairs will degenerate after another 10/20 years in which case you will need to repeat treatment.

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## neversaynever

> Is it possible that excess PGD2 is THE RESULT of follicles being in resting phase and not the other way around?
> 
> gutted: what topical cox-2 inhibitors are you using right now?


 I cant see why it would be the result.

PGD2 is found in non balding scalps, just in lower numbers, which makes me assume its part of the hair cycle process, obviously the telegan stage. By my logic, with the info at hand, it seems that whatever should be controlling pgd2 levels is not doings it job (maybe thats where dht comes in). So PGd2 builds and builds, hair cycles become quicker, hairs thin, and we all end up on damn forums talking about it.

HSC might work because something in it is neutralizing pgd2, or the growth factors are telling the cells to decrease pgd2 levels. Something like that...

Thus, it restores some kind of balance, for how long..no one knows.

Really wish someone from Histogen would give their thoughts on PG levels!

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## 2020

> histogen wont "fix" the pgd2 problem, because it isnt a problem. 
> 
> Histogen will stimulate the growth of hairs, possibly via stimulating the hairs to regenenerate. Bear in mind, histogen (regenica) is used to aid in scarless healing. This makes me think it works via wound regeneration.


 obviously it is.... PGD2's whole purpose is to keep hair down in its resting state. In balding people PGD2 is produced excessively and constantly how could Histogen tell your body to stop doing that?




> Depending on whethere your hormonal levels have balanced out as you age, the histogen hairs *can* last forever if not then the hairs will degenerate after another 10/20 years in which case you will need to repeat treatment.


 ^ I truly hope that is true but I personally don't believe it... miniaturization has nothing to do with MPB, sure Histogen will enlarge those follicles once again but as the follicle goes into resting phase again it will not regenerate in its full size again... this sucks

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## gutted

> obviously it is.... *PGD2's whole purpose is to keep hair down in its resting state*. In balding people *PGD2 is produced excessively* and constantly how could Histogen tell your body to stop doing that?


 pgd2 is probably not a problem, its part of the cycle, in telogen it will be prodcued "excessivley" or "upregulated" Most of the hairs ina balding scalp are in fact in telogen, which is why i think its only normal to find it.

In "normal" hairs, when they enter anagen the pgd2 will be downregulated after being signalled by whatever it is that signals anagen.

its in that cox study i linked to - 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14632179

The hair regenerates itself after every 3/5 year cycle. This is very unique, and clues to how it regenerates will provide treatments for scarless wound regeneration.

Histogen obviously affects the pgd2 balance but indirectly.

You should read this -> http://www.fst.ohio-state.edu/Pubs/70.pdf
IMO its the *key* to sucessful hair regeneration.

Im going to trial it out topically also, but i dont know what to use topically as a cox 2 blocker.

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## 2020

> pgd2 is probably not a problem, its part of the cycle, in telogen it will be prodcued "excessivley" or "upregulated" Most of the hairs ina balding scalp are in fact in telogen, which is why i think its only normal to find it.
> 
> In "normal" hairs, when they enter anagen the pgd2 will be downregulated after being signalled by whatever it is that signals anagen.


 right! Which is exactly what I said:

anagen phase ==> body signals less PGD2 -> hair grows no problem
telogen phase ==> body signals more PGD2 -> follicle shrinks

PGD2 is the result of a balding scalp and not the cause.

NOW, when follicle enters telogen phase, it actually becomes very small(*miniaturization*). YES! Follicles do become very small each time it changes phase, BUT FOR NORMAL PEOPLE, it regenerates to its full size once again and for bald people it doesn't...

Histogen CAN make those follicles big again and it can move all your hairs into anagen phase, BUT THE EFFECTS WILL BE AS TEMPORARY AS INDIVIDUAL'S HAIR ANAGEN PHASE.
Once it goes into telogen phase, something will have to regenerate it again but that something is "broken" in balding people so there won't be a second anagen phase...

Histogen --> One extra anagen phase.

^ if this is true, then I'm done with this forum and hair loss in general because it's all hopeless and I'll probably just embrace my hair loss...

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## gutted

> telogen phase ==> body signals more PGD2 -> follicle shrinks


 dude i posted this on HS, increasing pgd2, did it result in *minturisation/thinning hair* or *alopecia*?

Theres a big difference between *minuturisation* and *alopecia*.

Minutrisation is *progressive, thinning* hair, however alopecia is because of an increased rate of telogen hairs.

To me it sounds like increasing pgd2 in the mouse resulted in hairs becoming telogen, rather than any "progressive" thinning.

Im thinking that "progressive, thinning" hair is the result of a different phenomenon than pgd2!

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## yeahyeahyeah

> dude i posted this on HS, increasing pgd2, did it result in *minturisation/thinning hair* or *alopecia*?
> 
> Theres a big difference between *minuturisation* and *alopecia*.
> 
> Minutrisation is *progressive, thinning* hair, however alopecia is because of an increased rate of telogen hairs.
> 
> To me it sounds like increasing pgd2 in the mouse resulted in hairs becoming telogen, rather than any "progressive" thinning.
> 
> Im thinking that "progressive, thinning" hair is the result of a different phenomenon than pgd2!


 The truth is, nobody knows.

This is going round in circles.

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## 2020

> dude i posted this on HS, increasing pgd2, did it result in *minturisation/thinning hair* or *alopecia*?
> 
> Theres a big difference between *minuturisation* and *alopecia*.


 what the hell is HS? alopecia is the phenomenon of thinning hair which yes exceeds the normal number of 10% or something



right right right, but you do agree that:
in NON-BALDING PEOPLE, when follicle leaves ANAGEN PHASE it becomes "miniaturized" even though the person is not balding???
Since that person is not balding, his follicles in telogen phase will start getting bigger and producing anagen hair once again.
FOR BALDING PEOPLE THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN.
GRADUALLY, for whatever reason, there is less and less of that something that grows and enlarges follicle from telogen phase to anagen phase in balding people.



BASICALLY: your follicle size changes from 10% in telogen phase and 100% size in anagen phase.
For balding people, that function is broken. It will go something like:

10% telogen, 90% anagen
10% telogen, 80% anagen

.... on and on until it's 10% / 10% which is when the hair is invisible


^ this is happening, do you agree?

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## 2020

> The truth is, nobody knows.
> 
> This is going round in circles.


 no one knows what?

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## gutted

> right right right, but you do agree that:
> in NON-BALDING PEOPLE, when follicle leaves ANAGEN PHASE it becomes "miniaturized" even though the person is not balding???
> Since that person is not balding, his follicles in telogen phase will start getting bigger and producing anagen hair once again.
> FOR BALDING PEOPLE THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN.
> GRADUALLY, for whatever reason, there is less and less of that something that grows and enlarges follicle from telogen phase to anagen phase in balding people.
> 
> 
> 
> BASICALLY: your follicle size changes from 10% in telogen phase and 100% size in anagen phase.
> ...


 
dude what are you talking about???

i just found the answer to my own question

mouse, K14-Ptgs2, which targets prostaglandin-endoperoxide synthase 2 expression to the skin, demonstrates
elevated levels of PGD2 in the skin and develops alopecia, *follicular miniaturization*, and sebaceous gland hyperplasia,
which are all hallmarks of human AGA. These results define PGD2 as an inhibitor of hair growth in AGA and
suggest the PGD2-GPR44 pathway as a potential target for treatment.
-

theres probably a tug of war relationship going on somewhere during the regerneration phase causing the hairs to grow out thinner progressiveley.

Anyway you need to start blocking pgd2/or cox 2.

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## 2020

> dude what are you talking about???
> 
> i just found the answer to my own question


 ugh....

NON-BALDING PERSON:
anagen phase == follicle size: 500
telogen phase == follicle size: 100

do you agree that upon hair entering telogen phase, its follicle miniaturizes to 1/5 or whatever of its size? yes or no?

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## gutted

> ugh....
> 
> NON-BALDING PERSON:
> anagen phase == follicle size: 500
> telogen phase == follicle size: 100
> 
> do you agree that upon hair entering telogen phase, its follicle miniaturizes to 1/5 or whatever of its size? yes or no?


 
telogen is just a resting phase.



theres probably a tug of war between the prostglandins going on thats preventing full regenaration during "early to mid anagen phase" in the diagram.

pgd2 is also upregulated inflammatory sites. Since inflamation is also part of mpb this would in effect *triple pgd2* levels in balding scalp!!! Normal levels of pgd2 are not harmful at all, they regulate the hair cycle, its the *excess* pgd2 from the infalamtion which is the problem!

----------


## 2020

> telogen is just a resting phase.


 THIS WAS A YES OR NO QUESTION!

follicle shrinks EVERYTIME a follicle enters telogen phase AND enlarges again as it enters anagen phase, AM I RIGHT?

----------


## gutted

> THIS WAS A YES OR NO QUESTION!
> 
> follicle shrinks EVERYTIME a follicle enters telogen phase AND enlarges again as it enters anagen phase, AM I RIGHT?


 what do you mean skrinks? it doesn shrink, the hairs eject itself out during telogen.


in mpb, the subsequent, *anagen* hair regrows thinner/minituraised

in people without mpb, the subsequent anagen hair regrows normally and thick, rather than thinner/minturaised.

----------


## 2020

> pgd2 is also upregulated inflammatory sites. Since inflamation is also part of mpb this would in effect *triple pgd2* levels in balding scalp!!! Normal levels of pgd2 are not harmful at all, they regulate the hair cycle, its the *excess* pgd2 from the infalamtion which is the problem!


 and how would Histogen stop that inflammation?

----------


## 2020

> what do you mean skrinks? it doesn shrink, the hairs eject itself out during telogen.


 why is it so hard to understand???

THIS IS HOW HAIR WORKS FOR ALL PEOPLE:

when the hair is in telogen phase, its follicle size is tiny, but once something tells that follicle to start growing hair again, its size increases and the follicle start making hair again(anagen phase)

yes or no? follicle size goes up and down depending on what cycle it's on. this is just a fact why don't you know that?

----------


## 2020

> *Anagen Phase:* The anagen phase is the “growing” phase of a
> hair follicle. *It begins with a miniaturized hair follicle* that may or may
> not have recently shed the hair it was growing during the previous
> growth cycle. *At the beginning of the anagen phase, the hair follicle
> starts to grow back to full size* and extend deeper into the skin.


 


> *Catagen Phase:* Following the anagen phase, *the hair stops
> growing and the hair follicle starts shrinking.*


 


> *Telogen Phase:* *After the hair follicle has stopped shrinking*, it
> enters the telogen or “resting” phase, which lasts for another three
> months, or so.


 ^ this is what I'm talking about. follicle size changes depending on which phase the hair is currently on. This is why Histogen would only be able to give you ONE ANAGEN CYCLE and after that all of your hair will fall out

----------


## gutted

> and how would Histogen stop that inflammation?


 dude why do you keep on going on about histogen. 

histogen works, how? i dont know, it supplies the growth factors neccasary for the hairs to regrow thick hair - yes it obviously affects the prostglandin cascade...it has to, everything is interrealted through negative feedback mechanims etc.

the hairs will last a very long time, but you need to address the inflammation yourself for it to last a lifetime. If you dont, it will begin to minuturise again, but hey...why would you worry about inflamation when you know you can inflame th f*** out of those follciles and still know you can get those follciles back through another histogen injection...

----------


## 2020

> histogen works, how? i dont know, it supplies the growth factors neccasary for the hairs to regrow thick hair - yes it obviously affects the prostglandin cascade...it has to, everything is interrealted through negative feedback mechanims etc.


 yes but my point is that those growth factors will only last one hair cycle...

----------


## gutted

> yes but my point is that those growth factors will only last one hair cycle...


 it will last 2/3 cycles, but expect minuturisation to take place after the 1st cycle.

----------


## 2020

> it will last 2/3 cycles, but expect minuturisation to take place after the 1st cycle.


 how did you get 2-3 cycles? and i'm not talking about further miniaturisation due to DHT or whatever but rather from the fact that your follicles aren't able to regenerate again after a telogen phase

----------


## gutted

> ^ this is what I'm talking about. follicle size changes depending on which phase the hair is currently on. This is why Histogen would only be able to give you ONE ANAGEN CYCLE and after that all of your hair will fall out


 use this for your info -

http://www.hshairclinic.co.uk/hair-l...ir/hair-cycle/

----------


## gutted

> how did you get 2-3 cycles? and i'm not talking about further miniaturisation due to DHT or whatever but rather from the fact that your follicles aren't able to regenerate again after a telogen phase


 dht wont be a problem after age 40-50 if that is the time you get the histogen injections.

they *will* be able to regenerate again on thier own.

----------


## 2020

> use this for your info -
> 
> http://www.hshairclinic.co.uk/hair-l...ir/hair-cycle/


 what for? I responded with: your body is able to enlarge and shrink follicles based on whatever cycle it's currently on. non-balding people can't do that - the follicle is stuck in resting phase. 
HISTOGEN can provide some growing that will enlarge follicles again for ONE ANAGANE PHASE AGAIN but once it goes into telogen phase, you won't have the capability to turn them into anagen hair again....

why can't you understand what I'm saying?

----------


## 2020

> dht wont be a problem after age 40-50 if that is the time you get the histogen injections.


 probably sure...




> they *will* be able to regenerate again on thier own.


 that is the assumption for most of you, but I'm saying no. Why would they be able to regenerate again? PGD2 is still there and it probably supresses all the natural growth factors that your body provides... this is getting hopeless but no one understands me

----------


## gutted

> what for? I responded with: your body is able to enlarge and shrink follicles based on whatever cycle it's currently on. non-balding people can't do that - the follicle is stuck in resting phase. 
> HISTOGEN can provide some growing that will enlarge follicles again for ONE ANAGANE PHASE AGAIN but once it goes into telogen phase, you won't have the capability to turn them into anagen hair again....
> 
> why can't you understand what I'm saying?


 cause you are talking out out of your ass!!! loooool

minutrisation is a term used to describe progressiev thinning of hair follciles and only occurs in mpb.

You arent understanding what minutrisation means. There is no minuturisation going on in the hair cycle. There is only decreased and increased growth/proliferation of hair cells during the different cycles.

After the telogen cycle - and during the "early anagen" the new hair follcile that is formed in MPB is minutuarised. This is progressive in mpb.

Stop going on about histogen. Histogen can last forever, if you know your stuff.

----------


## gutted

> that is the assumption for most of you, but I'm saying no. Why would they be able to regenerate again? PGD2 is still there and it probably supresses all the natural growth factors that your body provides... this is getting hopeless but no one understands me


 this is why i said if you address the inflammation which is why there is elevated pgd2 in the first place the histogen hairs will last forever.

----------


## 2020

> You arent understanding what minutrisation means. There is no minuturisation going on in the hair cycle. There is only decreased and increased growth/proliferation of hair cells during the different cycles.


 miniaturization, shrinkage whatever. Read this post:
http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpos...7&postcount=52

FOLLICLE SIZE naturally changes as it goes from cycle to cycle. DO YOU AGREE?

----------


## 2020

> this is why i said if you address the inflammation which is why there is elevated pgd2 in the first place the histogen hairs will last forever.


 if you remove PGD2 you would get full regrowth anyways due to your natural growth factors operating as usual without Histogen so I don't see why you would need Histogen at all...

My point is that Histogen WON'T reverse your MPB but rather just provide your follicles with one last cycle. I wasn't planning on using MPB treatments after Histogen injection so this sucks

----------


## gutted

> miniaturization, shrinkage whatever. Read this post:
> http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpos...7&postcount=52
> 
> FOLLICLE SIZE naturally changes as it goes from cycle to cycle. DO YOU AGREE?


 dude i dont think im going anywhere with you. Link me to the spurce of that info.

----------


## 2020

> dude i dont think im going anywhere with you. Link me to the spurce of that info.


 right, so I'm guessing 100% of people didn't know that actual follicle size changes from cycle to cycle... that makes Histogen and all other stimulants useless

http://www.hairdoc.com/book/Chapter_...ss_answers.pdf

----------


## Hairismylife

> right, so I'm guessing 100% of people didn't know that actual follicle size changes from cycle to cycle... that makes Histogen and all other stimulants useless
> 
> http://www.hairdoc.com/book/Chapter_...ss_answers.pdf


 That means Histogen-created follicles won't last for long?

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## 2020

> That means Histogen-created follicles won't last for long?


 exactly one anagen phase. Once it falls out, you will lose it for good. Since ~100 hairs fall out each day, you will lose those 100 hairs permanently.... scientists are ****ing stupid that's all I have to say

----------


## ccmethinning

The histogen charade is over  :Frown:

----------


## 2020

> The histogen charade is over


 exactly why the **** didn't Spencer ask this question during their 40 minute interview:

what makes you think a follicle will start a second cycle after growth factors for the first cycle stop working?

I changed my position from optimistic to we're all ****ed...

----------


## ccmethinning

> exactly why the **** didn't Spencer ask this question during their 40 minute interview:
> 
> what makes you think a follicle will start a second cycle after growth factors for the first cycle stop working?
> 
> I changed my position from optimistic to we're all ****ed...


 There's still Gho.

----------


## Hairismylife

> exactly why the **** didn't Spencer ask this question during their 40 minute interview:
> 
> what makes you think a follicle will start a second cycle after growth factors for the first cycle stop working?
> 
> I changed my position from optimistic to we're all ****ed...


 Aderans still here

----------


## Ryan333

I don't think it's a question of blocking PGD2 completely, it's about stopping it binding to a certain receptor, the receptor that OC000459 targets, so you won't be affecting its positive effects on hair cycling.

----------


## neversaynever

> I don't think it's a question of blocking PGD2 completely, it's about stopping it binding to a certain receptor, the receptor that OC000459 targets, so you won't be affecting its positive effects on hair cycling.


 But that doesnt deal with the fact there is excessive PGD2 around balding follicles. So maybe itll help early to moderate baldness. In which case, discussions should halt until people start trying it.

There is too much missing pieces to know how long HSC would last. Too be honest, if the price is right, if one HSC treatment buys you at least 2 years...id be happy.

And they are getting great results, better than anything we've ever seen in hair loss treatments, so I find it hard to be negative about them.

----------


## neversaynever

> But that doesnt deal with the fact there is excessive PGD2 around balding follicles. So maybe itll help early to moderate baldness. In which case, discussions should halt until people start trying it.
> 
> There is too much missing pieces to know how long HSC would last. Too be honest, if the price is right, if one HSC treatment buys you at least 2 years...id be happy.
> 
> And they are getting great results, better than anything we've ever seen in hair loss treatments, so I find it hard to be negative about them.


 Unless maybe its that binding to the receptor that causes the malfunction, and pgd2 is over expressed? That would indicate that blocking this receptor is the key!

----------


## neversaynever

Nice interview with Dr Cots....

http://www.aad.org/dermatology-world...etic-alopecia-

----------


## gutted

> right, so I'm guessing 100% of people didn't know that actual follicle size changes from cycle to cycle... that makes Histogen and all other stimulants useless
> 
> http://www.hairdoc.com/book/Chapter_...ss_answers.pdf


 dude you are misinterpreting what they are saying.

They miean minuturisation as the follcile starts to *stop* production and begins to "regress" or "minuturise".

When its time to regenerate during early anagen the hair *follcile* begins to grow back to normal size but in mpb individuals the size of the follicle develops/regenerates partially minuturised and not to full size.

histogen will last a decent length of time if inflamation is addressed. If not it will last probably 2/3 hair cycles, until it becomes dormant again.

----------


## gutted

> exactly why the **** didn't Spencer ask this question during their 40 minute interview:
> 
> what makes you think a follicle will start a second cycle after growth factors for the first cycle stop working?
> 
> I changed my position from optimistic to we're all ****ed...


 i think i know what you are trying to say with histogen.

Your saying that because histogen supplied the initial growth factors for the hairs to regrow/regenerate then we would need to continuously supply the hairs with those histogen growth factors for it to regenerate again?

----------


## 2020

> Your saying that because histogen supplied the initial growth factors for the hairs to regrow/regenerate then we would need to continuously supply the hairs with those histogen growth factors for it to regenerate again?


 yes, because your body provides those growth factors naturally before hair enters anagen phase. For bald people that doesn't happen and that's why those hairs stay permanently in telogen phase.

Histogen CAN provide those growth factors to artificially simulate another anagen phase for you, but after that phase is over your body couldn't reproduce those growth factors again for another phase so you would need Histogen growth factors again....

Histogen == +1 extra hair cycle which actually sucks really bad I'm not sure if they know it themselves

----------


## 2020

> When its time to regenerate during early anagen the hair *follcile* begins to grow back to normal size but in mpb individuals the size of the follicle develops/regenerates partially minuturised and not to full size.


 right so something went permanently wrong when your body can't reproduce follicles again at normal size....




> histogen will last a decent length of time if inflamation is addressed. If not it will last probably 2/3 hair cycles, until it becomes dormant again.


 now where did you get that number? Are you saying that Histogen's growth will wear off due to DHT/PGD2 or because they only last one phase?

----------


## gutted

> right so something went permanently wrong when your body can't reproduce follicles again at normal size....
> 
> 
> 
> now where did you get that number? Are you saying that Histogen's growth will wear off due to DHT/PGD2 or because they only last one phase?


 
im confident histogen will last quite some time and not one cycle. It will stimulate the body to cycle dormant hairs again. Only time will tell though.

----------


## ovoxo

> Histogen CAN provide those growth factors to artificially simulate another anagen phase for you, but after that phase is over your body couldn't reproduce those growth factors again for another phase so you would need Histogen growth factors again....


 so you would need histogen injection like once a year or so?

----------


## 2020

> im confident histogen will last quite some time and not one cycle. It will stimulate the body to cycle dormant hairs again. Only time will tell though.


 I'm not confident about that at all.... are you saying that Histogen hairs will last as long as it takes for DHT to shrink it or will it at last as long as when Histogen growth factors wear off?

----------


## 2020

> so you would need histogen injection like once a year or so?


 one anagen phase so 2-3 years. Depending on how fast you shed, that fallen hair won't grow back...

----------


## ovoxo

and is it really a problem that you would get histogen treatment every 2-3 years?

----------


## 25 going on 65

If I had to get re-injected every 24-36 months I would still do it.

Still a hell of a lot more convenient than twice-daily minox. Or getting a chunk of scalp sliced out the back of my head.

----------


## gutted

> I'm not confident about that at all.... are you saying that Histogen hairs will last as long as it takes for DHT to shrink it or will it at last as long as when Histogen growth factors wear off?


 dude, we dont know the details, all you can do is speculate, i personally think once the hair starts growing through histogens injection, the body will takeover and cycle the hairs normally.

If your unlucky and your adrogen levels havent balanced out through age, those hairs will minuturise again. So yes "dht" levels are still a factor with histogen.

----------


## 2020

> and is it really a problem that you would get histogen treatment every 2-3 years?


 .... your MPB is still progressing though... more and more follicles will fail to enter anagen phase and you will need more and more injections and then you will become a NW6 and you won't be able to keep up with the injections it's going to be ridiculous.

yes this is a HUGE problem

----------


## gutted

> one anagen phase so 2-3 years. Depending on how fast you shed, that fallen hair won't grow back...


 dude you cant say that, when hairs are proliferating i.e growing, growth factors are continually being secreted every single day, theres no reason to think histogen will wear off unless you have not addressed your underlying problems.

Histogen probably works through stimulating wound regeneration, is it a coicidence that acell is used for wound regeneration too and grows at least some hair in some individuals...

----------


## 2020

> dude, we dont know the details, all you can do is speculate, i personally think once the hair starts growing through histogens injection, the body will takeover and cycle the hairs normally.
> 
> If your unlucky and your adrogen levels havent balanced out through age, those hairs will minuturise again. So yes "dht" levels are still a factor with histogen.


 ok let's say you get a 1000 histogen injections and now you're a thick NW1. Then you get castrated. Will Histogen's hair fall off eventually? Yes or No?
My guess is that it will since they should only last one phase due to your follicles not being able to control cycling....

----------


## 2020

> dude you cant say that, when hairs are proliferating i.e growing, *growth factors are continually being secreted every single day*, theres no reason to think histogen will wear off unless you have not addressed your underlying problems.


 exactly! But that mechanism is broken in balding people and I don't think Histogen will be able to TRULY reverse it. Yeah it will be able to mimic those growth factors to simulate another hair phase but that growth is "fake" since your follicle is still "broken" and won't be able to repeat that anagen phase again...

----------


## gutted

> ok let's say you get a 1000 histogen injections and now you're a thick NW1. Then you get castrated. Will Histogen's hair fall off eventually? Yes or No?


 NO

10char

----------


## gutted

> exactly! But that mechanism is broken in balding people and I don't think Histogen will be able to TRULY reverse it. Yeah it will be able to mimic those growth factors to simulate another hair phase but that growth is "fake" since your follicle is still "broken" and won't be able to repeat that anagen phase again...


 NO, once *stimulated* the body will cycle it normally.

----------


## 2020

> NO
> 
> 10char


 for it to be like that, PGD2 has to be THE RESULT of MPB and not really the cause...

someone mentioned that perhaps PGD2 just puts hair into telogen phase and the actual follicle shrinkage is meaningless since follicle size goes up and down depending on the phase?

----------


## 2020

> NO, once *stimulated* the body will cycle it normally.


 well to really prove it they would have to do long term studies since anagen hair usually lasts about 2-3 years... a good study to prove their permanent growth effects would be to do this on castrates with NW2 or NW3. Regrow their hairlines with HSC and then come back in 5 years to see if it lasted

----------


## LPSboxing

> Histogen == +1 extra hair cycle which actually sucks really bad I'm not sure if they know it themselves


 LOL! 

sorry dude, I have respect for you because I think you are one of the best contributors here, but you think you know better than them at Histogen?

If you think so, I think you should make some phone calls to them and explain the problem. 

It'll save a lot of time and the product will be out early.

----------


## 2020

> LOL! 
> 
> sorry dude, I have respect for you because I think you are one of the best contributors here, but you think you know better than them at Histogen?
> 
> If you think so, I think you should make some phone calls to them and explain the problem. 
> 
> It'll save a lot of time and the product will be out early.


 read my previous posts in this thread. Doesn't my theory make perfect sense? I hope it's not true really but at the moment for me it looks like it might be true...

----------


## gutted

> for it to be like that, PGD2 has to be THE RESULT of MPB and not really the cause...


 what are you talking about???? 

how many times do i have to say it, pgd2 is probably involved in hair follicle cycling!!! 

*Excess* levels are present in balding scalp due to the inflammatory sites within the follcile. Ths is why dr cots found excess pgd2.

----------


## 2020

> what are you talking about???? 
> 
> how many times do i have to say it, pgd2 is probably involved in hair follicle cycling!!!


 and I then proposed: hm... bald scalp == hairs in telogen phase. I wonder if all follicles that are in telogen phase have excess PGD2 and maybe that's what the purpose of PGD2 is: put hair into telogen phase.

Bald scalp === all hairs in telogen phase.
PGD2 === moves hair in telogen phase

And yes, prostaglandins are involved in hair cycling I know that




> *Excess* levels are present in balding scalp due to the inflammatory sites within the follcile. Ths is why dr cots found excess pgd2.


 and I said: Prostaglandins such as PGD2 have DIFFERENT FUNCTIONS throughout the body depending where are they put in.
Just because PGD2 is responsible for inflammation in asthma, doesn't mean that it will be responsible for inflammation in MPB.

----------


## gutted

> Prostaglandins such as PGD2 have DIFFERENT FUNCTIONS throughout the body depending where are they put in.
> Just because PGD2 is responsible for inflammation in asthma, doesn't mean that it will be responsible for inflammation in MPB.


 inflammation is a *major* factor in mpb. This has been consistently shown in studies, we also know pgd2 levels are high in inflammtory sites. connect the dots...

just concentrate on inhibiting pgd2 with the pgd2 inhibitor asap.

----------


## 2020

> inflammation is a *major* factor in mpb. This has been consistently shown in studies, we also know pgd2 levels are high in inflammtory sites. connect the dots...
> 
> just concentrate on inhibiting pgd2 with the pgd2 inhibitor asap.


 well if that's the truth then we're all ****ed... what makes you think that inflammation won't persist after HSC injections?

I don't think the mechanism is so dumb. PGD2 is simply signaling hair to stop growing and move into telogen phase. I bet if you tested a bald scalp on a castrated person, you would find 3x more PGD2 as well due to his hair being in telogen phase....

----------


## ovoxo

hmm, I thought that theory was that because of inflammation pgd2 is elevated and inhibits hair growth. So if you lower pgd2 hair starts to grow, but inflammation is still present

----------


## LPSboxing

> read my previous posts in this thread. Doesn't my theory make perfect sense? I hope it's not true really but at the moment for me it looks like it might be true...


 well... I think that, unfortunately, this balding process is too complex to be solved just by taking random studies from the internet and doing a lot of guess-work to connect the dots.

It's actually sad that we have to turn ourselves into scientists to figure this shit out just because the real scientists can't solve shit/don't give a shit about us.

but, keep up the good work guys.

About Histogen, we don't even know what they are putting inside the product so how can we speculate what effects it will have and for how long etc ...?

I think they are aware of the fact that if you don't solve the underlaying cause, the new hair won't last long.
Maybe they will put some anti-inflammatory mediators in the product? we have no way to know.

I also think we shouldn't go from excess optimism to except 'we are all ****ed' pessimism. Just let's keep it balanced.

----------


## gutted

> well if that's the truth then we're all ****ed... what makes you think that inflammation won't persist after HSC injections?
> 
> I don't think the mechanism is so dumb. PGD2 is simply signaling hair to stop growing and move into telogen phase. I bet if you tested a bald scalp on a castrated person, you would find 3x more PGD2 as well due to his hair being in telogen phase....


 loooool i give up.

----------


## 2020

> loooool i give up.


 bald person who was castrated after he went bald. If you measured his PGD2 levels on his bald scalp, would you find PGD2 levels elevated?

----------


## gutted

> bald person who was castrated after he went bald. If you measured his PGD2 levels on his bald scalp, would you find PGD2 levels elevated?


 dude ive went over my theory on hairsite before and i STILL stand by that theory.

no they wont find elevated levels of pgd2.

----------


## 2020

> dude ive went over my theory on hairsite before and i STILL stand by that theory.


 your theory sucks. I don't believe your body is that dumb at dealing with MPB and I don't think MPB is that complicated.





> no they wont find elevated levels of pgd2.


 I bet they would!

----------


## gutted

> I bet they would!


 betting doesnt get you nowhwere...

----------


## neversaynever

Was reading a bit about PGd2. Two things strike me....its released during allergic reactions, and in the brain, PGD2 produces normal physiological sleep and lowering of body temperature.

Currently suffering like mad from hayfever and ive always had sleep problems  :Big Grin: 

No relevance. Obviously we're dealing with PGD2 produced locally within the follicles.

Is it produced by a gene? PTGDS? I imagine in response to inflammation. inflammation caused by DHT maybe?

I still feel theres a piece missing. I cant seem to find any info about what happens to PGd2 in the body once its not needed...Does the body send something else to neutralize the pgd2? Everything in the body is about balance, so there must be something...

Perhaps that is a problem. PGD2 is produced as normal, but the system to clears PGd2 is broken.

Either that or its just PGd2 and inflammation. Somehow other pathways become blocked, and we have lost hair. Caspase-1 is also higher in AGA scalps ive read. Is capase-1 not involved in he inflammatory process?

"These results indicate that both PDGF-AA and -BB are involved in the induction and maintenance of the anagen phase in the mouse hair cycle" growth factors and other molecules might then explain why HSC works. 2020 might just have a point, that it might only last one hair cycle...but I dont care! I believe that means a hair can be around for 2-7 years. Sounds good to me!

The more I read, the more I feel there is some kind of infection, causing inflammation. And our body fights it, which unfortunately...leads to us losing hair.

pro-inflammatory prostaglandin (PG) E2
anti-inflammatory PGD2 and its metabolites

E2 promotes hair growth, but is pro inflammatory. D2 halts hair growth but is anti inflammatory....

There is more to this than just blocking PGd2.

----------

