# Men's Hair Loss > Men's Hair Loss: Start Your Own Topic >  Hairloss in brothers

## sausage

I am aware of others around my age that are losing their hair. I am 27, I have a brother a year older than me. He started balding at about 16 years old, I noticed and within a year it was happening to me too, you would expect this as we have the same genes.

There are 2 other guys I know that are balding but they both have brothers who are not balding. I find this a bit odd myself.

The brothers:

First pair:
29 year old, been balding around 9 years.
his brother 27 not balding at all.

Second pair:
27 year old, been balding around 7 years.
his brother 29 not balding at all.

Why do some brothers get away with it.

I have 2 younger brothers who are an age where I was in early balding. I also think one of them has started balding too. I expect all 4 of us brothers will be baldies.

Is it more common for brothers to bald at a similar sort of age or is that actually not that common and there can be vast differences in the balding age of brothers.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

----------


## StressedToTheBald

I'm no expert, but I think only twins share the exactly same state of hair - both end with hair or both end up bald. In all other cases, brothers might be different in the sense of having different dominant genes. I've found somewhere that we only share 50%, more or less, of genes with our parents and brothers and sisters. If thats the case - good chances are that half may inherit baldness and half not. Just a theory anyway..

"Genes

Common baldness cannot occur without the presence of specific inherited genes. These genes can be passed on by either parent. A gene is a single bit of chemically encoded hereditary instruction that is located on a chromosome and actually represents a tiny segment of DNA. Chromosomes occur in pairs (humans have 23 pairs), and every individual gets one set of chromosomes from each parent. Hair loss in men is now felt to involve more than one gene. When several genes govern a trait, it is called polygenic.

Genes that are located on the X or Y-chromosomes are call sex-linked. Genes on the other 22 pairs of chromosomes are called autosomal. It is felt that the genes governing common baldness are autosomal (not sex linked). This means that the baldness trait can be inherited from the mothers side of the family or the fathers side with equal frequency. The commonly held notion that baldness comes only from the mothers side of the family is incorrect, although for reasons not fully understood, the predisposition inherited from an affected mother is of slightly greater importance than that inherited from an affected father.

The term, dominant means that only one gene of a pair is needed for the trait to show up in the individual. A recessive gene means that both genes need to be present in order for the trait to be expressed. The genes involved in balding from androgenetic alopecia are felt to be dominant.

Just because one has the genes for baldness, it doesnt mean the trait will manifest itself. The ability of a gene to affect ones characteristics, i.e. be visible in a particular individual, is called expressivity. Gene expression is related to a number of factors, the major ones being hormones and age, although stress and other factors can be reasons for hair loss and balding in some individuals.

It is of interest that, although genes for some types of male hair loss have been mapped, none of the genes for male pattern baldness have yet been identified. This suggests that any kind of genetic engineering to prevent common baldness is still many years away."

----------


## sausage

I suspect both my parent had the balding gene, my dad lost his hair in his late 20's I think. I only noticed from old photo's. Plus my mum looked into our family history and found out that we were related to a professional footballer who is totally bald (he is retired now). So it was inevitable that my hair would disappear. 

This weekend = time to have a good look at my hair in the mirror, buzz it to grade 0 and if I absolutely cannot stand the way I look, it is time to book a transplant.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> I suspect both my parent had the balding gene, my dad lost his hair in his late 20's I think. I only noticed from old photo's. Plus my mum looked into our family history and found out that we were related to a professional footballer who is totally bald (he is retired now). So it was inevitable that my hair would disappear. 
> 
> This weekend = time to have a good look at my hair in the mirror, buzz it to grade 0 and if I absolutely cannot stand the way I look, it is time to book a transplant.


 Then all chances were sadly against You.
Similar story here. I actually think us bald people need look no further but our father, essentially it feels like somewhat of a mirror, we all end up as replica of our father's baldness.

I never really go to grade 0. Worst case I set up scale 1 on the Philips trimmer.. whats annoying is that even what I cut my hair closest to zero - I can still notice the balding in the crown, in front it doesn't look as bad at it does in the back.

----------


## sausage

> I never really go to grade 0. Worst case I set up scale 1 on the Philips trimmer.. whats annoying is that even what I cut my hair closest to zero - I can still notice the balding in the crown, in front it doesn't look as bad at it does in the back.


 Trouble for me is I never look at myself in the mirror, I just can't do it.

So I was just buzzing it to a grade 2 all the time, but I got the courage to look in the mirror last weekend and it looked terrible. My hair left on top is thin so compared to my surrounding horseshoe hair it looked awful. Thick horseshoe hair that is too long (even grade 2) looks horendous when you have thin nothingness on top especially when your only 27.

So it had to be buzzed down to a grade 1 but I still thought it looked pretty damn bad so this weekend I may buzz to a grade 0 to get rid of that thick to thin contrast on my head so it just blends in. But I will still look like an idiot.

Just need to buy a digital camera and i can start getting some consultations done for surgery as I cannot cope.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

I hate it too.
Whats really annoying, I've trimmed my hair to 1 in the past and still balding areas are clearly visible. Further more - when I see bald people who shave, yes do their hair with razor, their balding lines are still visible and that sucks big time.
Still I'll have to go shortest once again.. the longer my hair is, the more ridicolous is looks, also applying anything on the hair is more difficult.

How do You range on Norwood scale ?
I think I am at least 4, maybe even 5, or in between.
I see some people even here on the forum beeing scared and in panic although they seem to have full sets of hair, I doubt they're even Norwood 1, the real misery starts with 3, 4 and guys with Norwood 7 - they probably feel even worse than I do.

----------


## michael85

Every gene has a recessive and a dominant version of itself in the body.. the gene causing MPB(male pattern baldness) also has its recessive and dominant versions... 

So basically MPB gene is of 2 types. D(dominant) and R(Recessive). the dominant gene will always rule over the recessive gene when both are present as part of a persons genetic make up... 

A person will have either of these combinations in his body:

D,D--> (truly dominant, no MPB, kid can never have MPB as always the D gene is passed over)
D,R--> (Dominant, No MPB, but kid could have MPB if the R gene is passed over)
R,D--> (Dominant, No MPB, but kid could have MPB if the R gene is passed over)
R,R--> (Recessive, will have MPB, kid could have MPB since R gene is passed over)

This above is the genetic make up of one person(the male)

The same will also be present in women... se too would have either a DD, DR,RD, or RR in her body...


When these 2 have kids(siblings), the MALE could share either his dominant or recessive gene, and so will the FEMALE... 

The siblings, if they have MPB, then have the RR combination, whereas the other brother who does not have MPB, has the DD,or DR,RD ..

so if one brother has MPB there is no guarantee that the other brother will have it too, but there is a likely hood, as the family does possess the R strain of the gene ...

----------


## sausage

> How do You range on Norwood scale ?
> I think I am at least 4, maybe even 5, or in between.
> I see some people even here on the forum beeing scared and in panic although they seem to have full sets of hair, I doubt they're even Norwood 1, the real misery starts with 3, 4 and guys with Norwood 7 - they probably feel even worse than I do.


 On the Norwood scale I am probably around a 4a. I think I may be like you.

I have receded a fair bit at the temples and the rest of my hair on top is very thin but I have no bald patch. 

I didn't shave it to grad 0 this weekend as I needed to take some photos to send to surgeons for consultation and I guessed if I gave my hair a grade 0 they would not really be able to get a good idea of the state of my hair.

Next weekend a grade 0 is needed and it will stay that way as my hair is too far gone to even have it at grade 1.

If the surgeons don't come back with a decent reply then I think thats it, I will just have to face life bald and hope some other more successful 'cure' comes out asap. At least I will be safe in the knowledge that my £25,000 is safe in my bank for now, thats the one thing that keeps me going.

Its sooooo depressing knowing that if I had hair I would 100% have a girlfriend and be giving her a good old seeing too but no my lifes screwed I am single and I don't think I will be able to ever ask a girl out. I will just have to force myself to get on facebook and ask this girl out I fancy, but believe I have no chance looking like this. But you never know, I would be on such a high if I could get her.

Many people my age that have lost their hair have found girlfriends. I wish I could get on with life and somehow find a girl that won't care that I am bald. There is one guy in particular that looks totally awful who has lost his hair, he has hair like a monk and is my age, and he is married with a kid.

Might just have to grin and bear it....

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Sounds like You might be slightly better than me, at least half on the Norwood scale, because I also have a bald crown. Maybe I'm 4b or 5a..

Good idea not going 0 before consultations, surgeon sadly has to see the worst version, to determine number of grafts etc.

It would be tough if You expect those money back guarantees, surgeons are in it for the money and I doubt anyone out there is in money back mood. Anyway I hope it works out, that You get both guarantees and good results so there won't be any need for asking the money back. I'd like to hear the results first hand. 

Its a lot of money though. I'd have to save my whole life to pack that much. Then I might think.. I've saved all my life, is it worth it.. Theres always doubts. 

As for the girls, don't know how much they find it important. There are/should be more important things. Some girls might not want us regardless if we have hair or not, so thats something to always have in mind. But the selfconfidence is a powerful thing also, no one likes to be bald, I don't either, I guess we're all here trying to get our hair back.

----------


## sausage

> As for the girls, don't know how much they find it important. There are/should be more important things. Some girls might not want us regardless if we have hair or not, so thats something to always have in mind. But the selfconfidence is a powerful thing also, no one likes to be bald, I don't either, I guess we're all here trying to get our hair back.


 I will keep you posted, down to the surgeons responses now.

I don't really want to be paying over 17k but with how far I am gone I probably will have to pay a lot more.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> I will keep you posted, down to the surgeons responses now.
> 
> I don't really want to be paying over 17k but with how far I am gone I probably will have to pay a lot more.


 Thanks, I'd appreciate that.

Maybe if You can find a good surgeon and a cheap flight to USA.. dollar is still considerably weak, especially comparing to british pound - its like 1,5+ dollars for 1,0 pound. You'll get more value for Your money. Sadly, Europe is way too much expensive, transplants are overpriced as well. The disadvantage however is that its far away, for check ups, consultations etc.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Have You heard about this .. ?
http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7370

Its FUE, but latest FUE, backed by some new robotics stuff.. I hope it becomes mainstream, high tech can only help to perfect the procedure.

----------


## John777

Back to the original post, my younger brother is 19 going on 20, and I can see a similar pattern forming in his crown.  I probably started about the same age.  I haven't had the heart to tell him yet.  I'm hoping his girlfriend or someone else will notice first.  

And I truly believe that any woman worth your time or effort will not give a damn about your hair (just like my brother's girl won't, just like the girl I just started seeing doesn't).  In fact, I see bald guys, fat guys, bald fat guys, ugly guys, bald fat ugly guys, all the time with very attractive woman.  I think the key is just to not give a damn and be confident.  Obviously much easier said than done.

----------


## sausage

> Thanks, I'd appreciate that.
> 
> Maybe if You can find a good surgeon and a cheap flight to USA.. dollar is still considerably weak, especially comparing to british pound - its like 1,5+ dollars for 1,0 pound. You'll get more value for Your money. Sadly, Europe is way too much expensive, transplants are overpriced as well. The disadvantage however is that its far away, for check ups, consultations etc.


 I had some consultation feedback today, sounds like I need FUT (strip surgery) which I am not sure I will able to go through with.

The cost is the only good thing about it, although ridiculously expensive, it is a lot cheaper than FUE.

May have to be done in 2 sessions with possibly a year gap in between. Which does not sound good to me, could you go for a year with half a transplanted head and massive scar showing in the back of your head? I couldn't. 

If I can get it done for under £15,000 in one mega session then I may go for it.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> I had some consultation feedback today, sounds like I need FUT (strip surgery) which I am not sure I will able to go through with.
> 
> The cost is the only good thing about it, although ridiculously expensive, it is a lot cheaper than FUE.
> 
> May have to be done in 2 sessions with possibly a year gap in between. Which does not sound good to me, could you go for a year with half a transplanted head and massive scar showing in the back of your head? I couldn't. 
> 
> If I can get it done for under £15,000 in one mega session then I may go for it.


 I bet most surgeons suggest FUT not because its better, but easier for them to perform, and accordingly fewer surgeons are experts in FUE.

It is cheaper, but for what its worth, as I said earlier I wouldn't go with FUT even if someone would give it away for free. Scarring is scarring - and way too many people also report the misfortune of having to undergo new procedures just to cover the scar on the back on their heads. Worst case scenario - keloid might form ! Imagine having a thick mass tissue visible on the back of Your head.. keloids are also extremely tough to get rid of.. I wouldn't go through that, no, and with all that time in between, You wouldn't even have full set of hair this year as You expected.

Have You read about ARTAS ?
Its FUE but latest stuff, backed by technology, and seems to be the latest FDA approved procedure. Its 8 dollars per graft - very expensive, yet still cheaper than UK or Ireland. 
http://www.hsccolorado.com/
http://www.restorationrobotics.com/p...inal_doc2x.pdf

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> Back to the original post, my younger brother is 19 going on 20, and I can see a similar pattern forming in his crown.  I probably started about the same age.  I haven't had the heart to tell him yet.  I'm hoping his girlfriend or someone else will notice first.


 Maybe its more fair to tell him. I mean I wish I had someone to warn me early on. If he doesn't mind about his hair thats a different issue, but if he does - its gonna be easier to fight the problem early on.  




> And I truly believe that any woman worth your time or effort will not give a damn about your hair (just like my brother's girl won't, just like the girl I just started seeing doesn't).  In fact, I see bald guys, fat guys, bald fat guys, ugly guys, bald fat ugly guys, all the time with very attractive woman.  I think the key is just to not give a damn and be confident.  Obviously much easier said than done.


 Some girls don't care, others might, while some wouldn't like us regardless if we have hair or not. Other things are more important beyond doubt, but first impression when it comes to first impression sadly comes from the ouside. We watch and both guys and girls are at first visual beeings. Selfconfidence is important, no one likes to go bald -  we should reflect on the outside how we feel on the inside and I have to say that it doesn't feel right that us young people in 20s and 30s have lost hair like people in their 60s or 70s.. its how I feel too, and it simply doesn't feel right, it doesn't even feel natural regardless of what evolution theories tend to speculate.

----------


## sausage

> I bet most surgeons suggest FUT not because its better, but easier for them to perform, and accordingly fewer surgeons are experts in FUE.


 I feel similar to you about FUT, its does seem quite desperate to want to have a big chunk of the back of your head cut off to be stuck on top of your head. I guess that people losing their hair are desperate as they don't have any other options to help restore their hair to a decent results. People that have the option between the 2 procedures that choose FUT are a bit crazy.

It looks like I personally have no choice, but I will ask whats the best that can be done for me with FUE as I am so put off by FUT.

I have heard about that Artas thing but it does not look like any big improvement really, just makes it easier for the surgeon, does not really help the patient much, only in terms of time.

There is a buzz around Replicel on this forum as that looks like a possible cure in the near future. The fact that this possibly could become huge is another factor putting me off any FUT procedure.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> I feel similar to you about FUT, its does seem quite desperate to want to have a big chunk of the back of your head cut off to be stuck on top of your head. I guess that people losing their hair are desperate as they don't have any other options to help restore their hair to a decent results. People that have the option between the 2 procedures that choose FUT are a bit crazy.


 I'm desperate too but I'd never be desperate enough to go with FUT - it involves adding a potentially serious scarring problem to worry about, as if the hair problem itself isn't enough and also there would be the results of HT to worry about.




> It looks like I personally have no choice, but I will ask whats the best that can be done for me with FUE as I am so put off by FUT.


 Theres always a choice. I'd try contacting as many surgeons out there - and especially those who claim to be experts in FUE. FUT is still mainstream procedure and most doctors are traditionalists !




> I have heard about that Artas thing but it does not look like any big improvement really, just makes it easier for the surgeon, does not really help the patient much, only in terms of time.


 I think as high tech is involved - the scanning or whatever is more precise, in my humble opinion this will become mainstream with FUE. It might not be now, as theis tech equipment probably costs big time. 




> There is a buzz around Replicel on this forum as that looks like a possible cure in the near future. The fact that this possibly could become huge is another factor putting me off any FUT procedure.


 I don't raise my hopes too high. Theres plenty of claims out there and all seem to be years away or not proven. If replicel makes it with permanent solution and stuff, the cost would be much lower than HT, so I'd be the first to sign up.. but, theres always but, who knows when or even if replicel would become reality.

----------


## sausage

> I don't raise my hopes too high. Theres plenty of claims out there and all seem to be years away or not proven. If replicel makes it with permanent solution and stuff, the cost would be much lower than HT, so I'd be the first to sign up.. but, theres always but, who knows when or even if replicel would become reality.


 FUE can still be a possibility for me, it would just cost me a fortune.

I would only go for it if somehow I managed to get hold of a lot of money.

I may not have enough grafts and worryingly I have been told this wouldn't be able to be determined until day of surgery. That means I could put a deposit down for surgery, fly to America, enter the surgery and be told 'Sir, we cannot help you'. I mean what the hell? That is just plain crazy.

I have also been told it would take many sessions over a long time period to get to the final result, although I think there could be other surgeons that would be willing to do mass FUE sessions over a shorter time. But this may not be the case, I will find out.

Otherwise...

FUT is the only real option for me as much as I hate it. I could go through with the procedure its just the aftermath.

I could get away with having FUE done in terms of work as no-one would notice, until it started growing back which is fine.

But with FUT I will go back with a huge scar, everyone will notice unless I grow my hair long and look like a monk for months which I am not prepared to do. If there is something out there that could conceal such a scar I would like to know about it. I am not sure how common that scar issue you mentioned is, if its common it would be an added thing to put me off.

There are huge consequences with FUT:

*If it works:*
I get a decent looking head of hair back, my life would change, I would have a life again, I would be confident of getting a girlfriend which would lead onto a better life, a house etc....

*If it doesn't work:*
I will be even more depressed than I am now, £15,000+ of my hard earned money which was mean't for a house would be gone for nothing. I would have a prominent scar in the back of my head and no way of covering it up as my hair needs to be short otherwise I will look like a monk.

I have been told by one clinic that their results are never worse than some patients having a slightly thinner area than the rest of their hair. This is one of the best clinics there are and they have a good reputation. So by the sounds of things it should all be fine.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> FUE can still be a possibility for me, it would just cost me a fortune.
> 
> I would only go for it if somehow I managed to get hold of a lot of money.


 It is a fortune and money's becoming harder and harder to earn these days, I assume even in UK money doesn't fall off from trees.. Can't say what I would do in Your place as my situation financially is ways much worse. I guess if the money in question wasn't all my life's savings and if I had a housing and other issues solved, then it would be easier to say good bye to such huge amount of money..  




> I may not have enough grafts and worryingly I have been told this wouldn't be able to be determined until day of surgery. That means I could put a deposit down for surgery, fly to America, enter the surgery and be told 'Sir, we cannot help you'. I mean what the hell? That is just plain crazy.


 That sounds terrible ! Especially if You go to States. The only reason why Europe might be better - You could book a local cheap flight, have consultations and see where You stand. Otherwise it might easily end up like a walk in the dark !




> I have also been told it would take many sessions over a long time period to get to the final result, although I think there could be other surgeons that would be willing to do mass FUE sessions over a shorter time. But this may not be the case, I will find out.


 I noticed some people indeed have multiple sessions over time. Benefits - You could devide the costs and stuff - bad really bad thing - You wouldn't have full result anywhere near in time frame that You have set for this Year.




> FUT is the only real option for me as much as I hate it. I could go through with the procedure its just the aftermath.
> 
> I could get away with having FUE done in terms of work as no-one would notice, until it started growing back which is fine.
> 
> But with FUT I will go back with a huge scar, everyone will notice unless I grow my hair long and look like a monk for months which I am not prepared to do. If there is something out there that could conceal such a scar I would like to know about it. I am not sure how common that scar issue you mentioned is, if its common it would be an added thing to put me off.


 Think of the result, the procedure itself is less important.
I'd never go with FUT, I'm prone to scarring and I believe even people who aren't can end up badly. Let me tell You - there is no such thing as invisible scar !!! You will get one if You go with FUT, the only difference based on the skill of the surgeon Your scar may be more or less noticable, but You would get one for sure ! And worst case scenario You could end up with keloid or even if not - You can end up having to pay for additional FUE just to 'cover' the scar.

There are creams and covers for scars, in skin colour.. but do ask Yourself if you really want to apply consealers for the rest of Your life.




> There are huge consequences with FUT:
> 
> *If it works:*
> I get a decent looking head of hair back, my life would change, I would have a life again, I would be confident of getting a girlfriend which would lead onto a better life, a house etc....
> 
> *If it doesn't work:*
> I will be even more depressed than I am now, £15,000+ of my hard earned money which was mean't for a house would be gone for nothing. I would have a prominent scar in the back of my head and no way of covering it up as my hair needs to be short otherwise I will look like a monk.
> 
> I have been told by one clinic that their results are never worse than some patients having a slightly thinner area than the rest of their hair. This is one of the best clinics there are and they have a good reputation. So by the sounds of things it should all be fine.


 Weigh in carefuly, once You decide there is no way back. Are You ready to accept the possible outcome of what happens if it doesn't work.. If the money's planned for the future house, girl, family.. Be wise, don't loose both, those would be my fears too.

----------


## sausage

> Think of the result, the procedure itself is less important.
> I'd never go with FUT, I'm prone to scarring and I believe even people who aren't can end up badly. Let me tell You - there is no such thing as invisible scar !!! You will get one if You go with FUT, the only difference based on the skill of the surgeon Your scar may be more or less noticable, but You would get one for sure ! And worst case scenario You could end up with keloid or even if not - You can end up having to pay for additional FUE just to 'cover' the scar.


 Unfortunately I am yet to have a response from Dr Feriduni who I sent a consultation form to and was the one surgeon I was hoping to hear back from, although the other surgeon I have in mind gives me confidence and I think I could get a good result being his patient.

Just a bit more research needed. I ideally need to know what can potentially be done for me BEFORE I book any surgery. I need to know what I am paying for and travelling thousands of miles for before I get there. Hopefully there are surgeons that can do this. I am not prepared to put down a 20% deposit (£2500) pay £1000 for accommodation and flights, fly to America to be told I am a poor candidate. Who would do that, its madness.

As far as I am aware £15k should pay for it, which would leave £10k in my bank which I could deal with. My parents don't know that I am considering doing this but they have both offered to help me financially when I come to buy a house so that should also help the blow of losing £15k to get some hair back. I would not tell them I had it done until it started growing and then they will feel sorry for me and possibly help me out even more. So overall in the longer term say 3-4 years away with my parents help and my continued saving I should re-coup that £15k+. I like a bit of a gamble so maybe I should just chuck one of my £1000's on a 15-1 bet.  :Confused: 

Next step for me is to get a few more questions answered + get a few photos of myself taken posing with a grade 0 haircut and see if I can cope with the way I look, if I decide that I look ok then I may not bother with surgery. If I hate the way I look then I think surgery is the only option.
We will see.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Keep me updated, think I saw that name before, where is Dr. Feriduni located ?

It would be the ideal situation to know what can and cannot be done and how much it costs in advance. Going far off without this, You might loose a good deal of money for nothing and that wouldn't be good.

Sounds fair enough if You can give a portion and save the other as You said, and with parents help, that sounds like a plan.

Best of luck.

PS. Grade 0 haircut - would that be like complete head shaving, with razor ? I've never gone that far, although recently I shaved a bit of parts where my receding lines are in good hope that something might grow up again.

----------


## sausage

> PS. Grade 0 haircut - would that be like complete head shaving, with razor ? I've never gone that far, although recently I shaved a bit of parts where my receding lines are in good hope that something might grow up again.


 No, Grade 0 is the lowest cut on an electric hair trimmer. Basically its without any plastic guard, just the bare clippers themselves.

Not quite a razor shave (I could not do that).

I am currently grade 1 so grade 0 isn't too much different.

You can still see the hairs (well only just) with a grade 0, With razors the hairs gone completely and your just left with a head of skin.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Ok, I know what you mean now. I tend to keep the plastic guard on the trimmer,  my trimmer is pretty precise and without the guard it barely leaves visible hair so that would feel very similar to shaved head.

----------


## sausage

> Ok, I know what you mean now. I tend to keep the plastic guard on the trimmer,  my trimmer is pretty precise and without the guard it barely leaves visible hair so that would feel very similar to shaved head.


 I think a grade 0 is better than a grade 1 when you don't have much left on top, especially when your still in your 20's.

When the hair on top is so far gone that the side and back hair in contrast stands out.

Need to blend it in more and go for a grade 0.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> I think a grade 0 is better than a grade 1 when you don't have much left on top, especially when your still in your 20's.
> 
> When the hair on top is so far gone that the side and back hair in contrast stands out.
> 
> Need to blend it in more and go for a grade 0.


 I don't have much left on the crown and in the front I have receding hairlines. This is still visible with grade 1. I might go with grade 0, but would have to stay in for a few days.. Think I've done something half way similar once by mistake. Its hard to blend in, thats not really possible, not even with a razor - when I look at people who shave their heads - I can still clearly notice the lines of their baldness - even though their heads are clean shaved - it still shows !

----------


## sausage

> I don't have much left on the crown and in the front I have receding hairlines. This is still visible with grade 1. I might go with grade 0, but would have to stay in for a few days.. Think I've done something half way similar once by mistake. Its hard to blend in, thats not really possible, not even with a razor - when I look at people who shave their heads - I can still clearly notice the lines of their baldness - even though their heads are clean shaved - it still shows !


 It will still show that I am bald lol of course it will. There is no way of covering that up. I will see what a grade 0 looks like.

Jason Statham does not look like he shaves his head to a grade 0, in most pictures it looks like grade 1 or 2. He is one of the lucky ones that looks ok with a balding head. But of course would look very good with hair.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

This guy has very similar front to mine ! Don't know if he has a balding crown too ? My balding crown ain't visible from the front either.

----------


## sausage

> This guy has very similar front to mine ! Don't know if he has a balding crown too ? My balding crown ain't visible from the front either.


 I think this may have been taken a few years ago as his hair has almost disappeared from the top now.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> I think this may have been taken a few years ago as his hair has almost disappeared from the top now.


 I can only hope not to end up the same way.. I feel bad enough as it as.
Honestly, Norwood 4 or 5 already feels like a disaster to me, can't even imagine what I would do if I had Norwood 6 or 7. This way at least still feels I stand a chance.

----------


## sausage

Update on my mission to potentially get a HT:

I am getting so many different opinions from Surgeons about what they recommend. 

-One has said have FUT done 2000-3000 grafts to build a hairline and thicken up the rest.

(I am not sure what exactly they think the result of that would be, to me that number of grafts seems far to low, maybe they see my existing hair differently from other surgeons :S)

-One has shown me a photo of a guy who had 6000 FUT grafts done in one session to echo what he thinks I need.

(This is ideally what I am looking at)

-One has said that I need to have 6000 ish grafts, one session then another session a year later.

(2 sessions + a year gap = madness!)

Still more research to do.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Sounds confusing. Has anyone recommended FUE ?
As for the number of grafts, look I'm no expert - but I'm at least 1 stage further on the Norwood and I don't think that even I would need 6,000 grafts.. that sounds more like for Norwood 6 or 7 from my perspective. And that would cost a fortune, no way You could do that many grafts in Europe or USA for 15,000 pounds.

----------


## sausage

> Sounds confusing. Has anyone recommended FUE ?
> As for the number of grafts, look I'm no expert - but I'm at least 1 stage further on the Norwood and I don't think that even I would need 6,000 grafts.. that sounds more like for Norwood 6 or 7 from my perspective. And that would cost a fortune, no way You could do that many grafts in Europe or USA for 15,000 pounds.


 I am too far gone for FUE, as you say 6000 FUE would cost a fortune.

My haor is worse than I originally thought as I do not look in the mirror ever. I took a few photos with my hair at grade 1 under bright light and it looked very thin, you could pretty much only see scalp.

I think partly due to me having my hair at grade 1 made it look pretty bad, I have been asked to grow it longer and take some new photos, I think it will look vastly different if I have it a cm longer. But then again I am not sure why surgeons take what already exists into account when the hair is so thin anyway and will fall out at some point, I'd like to have surgery with the fact that those hairs will not be there in a few years.

6000 grafts can be obtained from 1 strip surgery so I should be able to just get that done all in one session.

I think it will be about £15,000.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Sorry to hear that. So, You're sure about going ahead with FUT ?

----------


## sausage

> Sorry to hear that. So, You're sure about going ahead with FUT ?


 Possibly, still so much to figure out, it is hard to get the information I need quickly, a lot of surgeons advisers take a few days to reply and sometimes have to wait to talk to the surgeon himself before getting back to me, so its a long game of ping pong at the moment. I need to find out what exactly I can get done which is difficult. I want to be certain of what can be achieved before I make a decision and pay for anything.

So much for buzzing my hair to grade 0 I need to grow it a bit as I said and take more photos to get a more precise view from the surgeon.

One thing I do not understand is......Pretty much every young balding man will end up with none to virtually nothing left on the top of their heads even if they use Minoxidil or Propecia (even if these work they seem to stop working at some point).......

Why do surgeons even let people get FUE done at all when most will run out of donor hair and will one day get to a point where they run out of this donor hair but still have original hair left which will then fall out and leave a stupid looking patch of baldness that cannot be filled in.

Theres many people on here who have hardly receded at all but have had dense packing to fill in their hairlines, these people will be the ones that have an odd looking patch when they are older, yet the surgeons go ahead with these surgeries. If I had done the same thing I would now be at the stage where I would have ran out of donor hair and have a very thin patch.

This makes no sense to me. I can only think its about money. I guess if the patients are balding relatively slowly then at least they should have a full head of hair for the 1st 10 years of balding if they keep going back for transplants, after that time they will have to shave it off or look stupid.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Why not go directly to some clinic in UK and see first hand what they'll tell You. You don't have to do the procedure there, but it might help to meet any surgeon directly ! This way if all Your feedback is via online consultations, its not really tangible !

I don't think all balding people end up with nothing. Many might, but I believe many also get stuck with receding hairlines and balding crown, good degree of baldness but still don't loose everything completely.

Regardless if its FUE or FUT - there is a risk of the non-transplanted hairs to fall out at some point or to some degree.. unless You replace every single DHT non resistant hair with the donor DHT resistant hair, but I'm not even sure if and how You plan to do that ? You are not Norwood 7.. with Norwood 4a, You still have good amount of hair that will remain after the procedure and these hairs may or may not fall out in the future.

----------


## sausage

> Regardless if its FUE or FUT - there is a risk of the non-transplanted hairs to fall out at some point or to some degree.. unless You replace every single DHT non resistant hair with the donor DHT resistant hair, but I'm not even sure if and how You plan to do that ? You are not Norwood 7.. with Norwood 4a, You still have good amount of hair that will remain after the procedure and these hairs may or may not fall out in the future.


 Apparently a surgeon can tell what hairs will remain if you send them a photo.


I was thinking today of possibly just having a thin density of hair transplanted throughout my head including re-establishing my hairline. A density that would only work with having short hair. I say this because as you know I am not keen on FUT and FUE won't give me full dense coverage.

I think a thin coverage may work if kept short, especially when the donor hair is thinned out due to extraction as this can help make the surrounding hair thinner and blend in with the thin new hair on top.

I will see if this is possible and see if I can get any examples of people who have had a similar thing done (if any).

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> Apparently a surgeon can tell what hairs will remain if you send them a photo.


 But how can they know that ? Its like predicting future..




> I was thinking today of possibly just having a thin density of hair transplanted throughout my head including re-establishing my hairline. A density that would only work with having short hair. I say this because as you know I am not keen on FUT and FUE won't give me full dense coverage.
> 
> I think a thin coverage may work if kept short, especially when the donor hair is thinned out due to extraction as this can help make the surrounding hair thinner and blend in with the thin new hair on top.
> 
> I will see if this is possible and see if I can get any examples of people who have had a similar thing done (if any).


 That sounds interesting. It something that crossed my mind too. Trouble is, even if this case, to cover the basics in front and in my case in the back as well, still You would need certain density, otherwise it would look weird or thin. I guess with the short haircut this would look better and less grafts required - maybe You could cover the front like that with 1500 grafts ? That would save You a lot of money, but still You would have to go with short haircut always.

----------


## sausage

> But how can they know that ? Its like predicting future..
> 
> *I see what you mean, Its what I have been told, think its something to do with looking at the thickness of the hair or something, not sure really.*
> 
> That sounds interesting. It something that crossed my mind too. Trouble is, even if this case, to cover the basics in front and in my case in the back as well, still You would need certain density, otherwise it would look weird or thin. I guess with the short haircut this would look better and less grafts required - maybe You could cover the front like that with 1500 grafts ? That would save You a lot of money, but still You would have to go with short haircut always.
> 
> For myself I do not want the existing hair to be taken into consideration. If I got a surgeon to do it, I would want him to imagine I am totally bald on top and go from there.
> 
> It would look thin, thats the idea, I would prefer it to be as thick as possible but that is not going to be possible with FUE because of the extent of my hair loss. Its just a way of getting myself away from the hellish FUT. It would also look a lot better than a bald scalp. It would probably look like a thinning scalp but I could deal with that.


 *Take another look at that guy I posted a pic of that was balding, just imagine that sort of thinness throughout the top of the scalp, I think it would look reasonable as long as it was evenly done, and as I said with the donor areas being thinned out then it will blend in better. I have tried to find a photo of a guy with thinning hair on top - not receding just thinning throughout the top of the head to see what it looks like, but I can't find a photo.*

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Looking forward to hear the outcome, I mean its an interesting idea ! I wonder how much grafts would be required for something like that.. for the most basic density. I might follow Your example in some years time if I savew up the money.. it would still require much less money for a small number of grafts.

But You would still be relying on Your existing hair. Surgeon would only fill in the empty spots to make the equal density with Your existing hair. You won't have bald spots any more but equal thinning hair everywhere. I hope the non-transplanted hair won't fall off in the future, as that would still put the effects of transplant in danger or You would have to do more filling in the future.

----------


## sausage

> Looking forward to hear the outcome, I mean its an interesting idea ! I wonder how much grafts would be required for something like that.. for the most basic density. I might follow Your example in some years time if I savew up the money.. it would still require much less money for a small number of grafts.


 Its just an idea, it will probably get ripped apart by surgeons. It also might still need a lot of grafts. I am not sure what amount of grafts they can obtain via FUE I expect a lot, but they just don't like doing it as it aches their arms after a while. + us patients don't like it if it gets to that stage as it means it is costing us a fortune.

I have been told you get around 6000 grafts out of a FUT strip which is about enough to fill the top of a bald head with a reasonable density.

I think I will probably be left knowing FUT is my only option, I ideally want to get this moving but with trials of other treatments results coming out soon maybe I need to wait a few more months before booking anything.

Its such a hard life knowing and thinking daily that I could and possibly would be with this girl I like if I had not lost my hair, it feels like she's there in my reach but I cannot quite grab her as my hairloss is pulling me back. Its so depressing.

If hairloss is affecting you as much as it is affecting me then why don't you take out a loan for a hair transplant, do whatever you can to save or make money and you could get one no problem.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Its Your money, Your idea.. if they don't wanna do it.. I'd find someone who would. FUE's surely harder for them to do, they wouldn't charge more otherwise. I don't think donor hair is really a problem, we all have plenty of hair, only not at the bald and thinning spots.

6,000 grafts is a lot, you'd cover whole head surely, but if its FUT, I wouldn't do it to be honest. As for the new trials and research treatments, I'd give anything for them to become reality, but I strongly doubt anything is months away.. no one even knows if it will be just some years, as some doctors say decades - I hope they're wrong.

Don't have to loose a girl. If she's the right one, do short haircut, buy a great hat and give it a go. If its meant to be, You can do transplant in the meantime, further more - if she hears You're doing it for her - she should be honoured.

My situation is much worse, I live in one of the poorest countries.. I barely can afford much more basic stuff, let alone transplant. Loan's no option, wouldn't get one nor I would be able to pay it back.. But still, maybe in a few years, maybe I move out, wishful thinking at least for now !

----------


## sausage

> My situation is much worse, I live in one of the poorest countries.. I barely can afford much more basic stuff, let alone transplant. Loan's no option, wouldn't get one nor I would be able to pay it back.. But still, maybe in a few years, maybe I move out, wishful thinking at least for now !


 I know, we both hate FUT, every time I think of it I see a scalpel crunching its way through the back of my head. Yuck!! But I would probably still go through with it if I decide I cannot stay bald, my baldness will only get worse and worse and I will get more and more depressed.

I understand there is no chance treatments will come out in a few months, but an announcement is going to be made by Replicel, if they have had amazing results they may announce a date that the product could come to market. If they were pretty certain of getting something out in a few years time then I would not get a HT, I would just wait for Replicel. So its probably worth me waiting until April to see what happens with it.

Although I ideally want to get something done ASAP. I think If I got a HT in the next few months then I could have hair by the summer, my aim is to get hair then get this girl, time is running out as she may find another guy before then. I know there are other girls out there but this girl is perfect for me.

I am sorry you don't come from a rich country, I guess you have to hope for a more affordable cure, or just try to get on with life. Although even if you had the money right now, you are possibly too far gone for FUE, or it would not be a good idea as one day you will have a bald patch that you cannot fill, the only way to fill it would be by FUT which is a no-no for you.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

FUT is a big no for me, I agree even if I had the money, further more even if someone would offer it for free, I wouldn't sign up for FUT. Baldness is bad enough for selfconfidence, but having a scar on the back of the head, its just not worth it.

You don't know that You're going to go down the road and get more and more bald. I don't think it has to happen. I have been in the same stage for years ! Today I'm not any worse than I was a few years ago.. and with all the supplements and what else not, I only could have got a tiny bit better.. maybe nothing visible, but still, my baldness hasn't progressed. And the stuff I'm using now, hey - if in 6 months I have visible regrowth - even if its not too much, it would still feel like a miracle.

When is the announcement by Replicel due to happen ? April ?
I hope You're right, it would be brilliant. 

Even if You do HT in the next few months, are You would have hair ready for the summer ? I thought there was like 4 months in between when hair might fall off and then some period of up to 12 months for regrowth ? Also, don't know why - but some people report having problem with regrowth.

I wouldn't risk loosing the girl though. If its worth it, You might not have a 2nd chance. Also, best/worst case scenario, You said You'd be willing to wait for Replicel if their announcement is positive, still the cure would be a few years away - long waiting time.

Life's a ... I sadly ended up poor and in the poor country. Yes, the affordable cure would be the solution for me, but in the meantime, I still fight.. I take natural 5-alpha reductase inhibitors, currently on 510mg of beta sitosterol, 300mg of saw palmetto and bunch of other stuff ! It takes 6-12 months to see more visible improvement. Just have to be very patient. If it works out - it will pay off big time !

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Interesting picture .. 3,000 grafts :
http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/album.p...pictureid=2563

----------


## sausage

The only thing that worries me about the scar is in the time after surgery when  having long hair will make me look stupid and having short hair will show the scar, if there is something out there that will cover the scar up during the time inbetween surgery and the new hairs coming through that would be ideal.

I think now that I have forced myself to look in the mirror I am gradually getting used to my baldness, I still hate the way it makes me look, as I said before I need to grow it out to take some more photos for a surgeon to look at which is not a good look as my hair is thin. I would like to shave it down to a grade 0 and see how that looks. I will look a lot better with grade 0 and I probably should bulk my muscles up too.

Good luck with your medication routine. I'd like you to keep me updated with that.

With me, I am still waiting for answers to questions I have asked surgeons, will send them a few more photos, see what they say, then I will grade 0 my hair and make a decision on surgery or not.

----------


## sausage

> Interesting picture .. 3,000 grafts :
> http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/album.p...pictureid=2563


 Yep, looks very good, I need a lot more than that though.

Thats by Feriduni who I was hoping to hear from, He was the first surgeon I sent my consultation to but have heard nothing from him after 2 weeks, its very disappointing.


One other thing that is making me really want a HT is the fact my receding hairline where I have gone completely bald at the temples is sooooo sensitive to temperature, a lot of the time I really notice it, it feels like I have cold tingling on these areas, do you get this?

Its sooooooo frustrating.

I also hate how when I frown you can clearly see where my hair used to be, you can see the edge of where my hairline used to be.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> The only thing that worries me about the scar is in the time after surgery when  having long hair will make me look stupid and having short hair will show the scar, if there is something out there that will cover the scar up during the time inbetween surgery and the new hairs coming through that would be ideal.


 I'd worry much more about the scarring. You can easily google up people who had to undergo another procedure just to cover the scar. Worst case scenario - if keloid forms, keloids look absolutely repulsive. And there is no such thing as invisible scar - even with the best surgeon in the world.

There are ways to cover up the scar, well to some degree at least, but I don't recommend it. Plus You'd have to put the stuff at least once daily.. There are scar consealers, for example: http://www.colortration.com But with this, it would much harder to apply without leaving a trace on Your hair as well ! Plus if a scar is raised and not just discoloured.. trust me, You're gonna have a hard time hiding it.




> Good luck with your medication routine. I'd like you to keep me updated with that.


 Thanks, I will, same to You with HT, I'd like to stay informed too, even if its not something I can afford right now, if I ever do it in the future - its good to learn from the experience of others.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> Yep, looks very good, I need a lot more than that though.
> 
> Thats by Feriduni who I was hoping to hear from, He was the first surgeon I sent my consultation to but have heard nothing from him after 2 weeks, its very disappointing.


 Well that guy seems very bald in the front ! To be honest I think he might be even worse than me, although he has no balding crown - I have a problem with that as well. 

That is dissapointing. I way trying to find Feriduini website - he doesn't even seem to have a website - which is surprising to say the least !




> One other thing that is making me really want a HT is the fact my receding hairline where I have gone completely bald at the temples is sooooo sensitive to temperature, a lot of the time I really notice it, it feels like I have cold tingling on these areas, do you get this?


 No, not really. I only hate the way it looks like. I never really had a strong hairline in the front to begin with, I guess I must have started balding very very early in my life. I'd be much less unhappy if my crown was all right.. this way it feels like I have a double balding problem.. it somehow feels like a have to invest double efforts to face or regrow both my front and frontal hairlines.

----------


## sausage

> I'd worry much more about the scarring. You can easily google up people who had to undergo another procedure just to cover the scar. Worst case scenario - if keloid forms, keloids look absolutely repulsive. And there is no such thing as invisible scar - even with the best surgeon in the world.
> 
> There are ways to cover up the scar, well to some degree at least, but I don't recommend it. Plus You'd have to put the stuff at least once daily.. There are scar consealers, for example: http://www.colortration.com But with this, it would much harder to apply without leaving a trace on Your hair as well ! Plus if a scar is raised and not just discoloured.. trust me, You're gonna have a hard time hiding it.


 People that undergo more treatment to cover up the scar are people that want to keep their hair short. I am going to keep my hair long enough to cover any scar and if I did want to one-day fill in the scar then that would be no problem as I doubt it costs that much. I don't think the scar itself shows, its the fact that where the scar is the hair does not blend in, so your left with a line of missing hair. So scar concealers are not really what I am after, I need something that will fill in that thin bald line somehow. I have just read that Dermatch, a hairloss concealer can work.

----------


## sausage

> That is dissapointing. I way trying to find Feriduini website - he doesn't even seem to have a website - which is surprising to say the least !


 http://www.hairdocs.info/seite_engl/index.htm




> No, not really. I only hate the way it looks like.


 Your lucky, I cannot stand the sensitivity of it, it drive me nuts.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> http://www.hairdocs.info/seite_engl/index.htm


 Yes thats it. Although it doesn't seem very much updates. Under prices info.. it still dated back fro 2009. and no prices are actually shown.

----------


## sausage

> Yes thats it. Although it doesn't seem very much updates. Under prices info.. it still dated back fro 2009. and no prices are actually shown.


 Exactly what I thought.....it looks dated, the photos on their look dated, the whole website is poorly designed. Yet Feriduni is supposed to be one of the top surgeons. 

It is very concerning this clinic would take no care whatsoever in marketing their website.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> Exactly what I thought.....it looks dated, the photos on their look dated, the whole website is poorly designed. Yet Feriduni is supposed to be one of the top surgeons. 
> 
> It is very concerning this clinic would take no care whatsoever in marketing their website.


 One can only be cautios. I hope the procedure quality doesn't follow the quality and freshness of the website. And You said You haven't received an answer for a long time - that would probably make me think twice - I mean if they haven't got the time for patients - what do they have time for ? I get it that surgeon is busy or doesn't want to bother sitting in front of the computer 24/7, but hey, with all the huge money beeing made, is it really that hard to hire a good consultant who will pay respect to potential patients and also give a timely response !

----------


## sausage

> One can only be cautios. I hope the procedure quality doesn't follow the quality and freshness of the website. And You said You haven't received an answer for a long time - that would probably make me think twice - I mean if they haven't got the time for patients - what do they have time for ? I get it that surgeon is busy or doesn't want to bother sitting in front of the computer 24/7, but hey, with all the huge money beeing made, is it really that hard to hire a good consultant who will pay respect to potential patients and also give a timely response !


 I have been told by someone on here that recently had a HT with Feriduni, that exactly the same thing happend to him, and he recommended I emailed the clinic, which I will be doing once my hair has grown a bit and I can take some photos to send over.

This HT research etc. is taking time, I have learn't a lot but getting answers to questions can be pretty hard. I am still trying to understand what can be done for me within my £15,000 budget both via FUE and by FUT.

Again every time I think about FUT I cringe and I doubt I could go through with it, I am desperate to get my hair back as it has ruined my life but I still have my limits and FUT is probably going too far. Its all down to these new photos and what the surgeons make of them I guess, then I can finalise a decision.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

FUT's a killer, not for me, even if I had money. Surgeons like to cut stuff.. none of them I believe became hair surgeon first - they were previously cutting in other areas and at some point became hair surgeons. Wouldn't let anyone carve a square on the back of my head, even for hair loss, there are limits, and too much is too much.

I think I have some tiny hairs growing just below my receding hairlines.. I'm still roughly in my first month - I've read 6 months is a minimum, or up to 12 recommended for results to be visible. If my progress is further developing by passing of each month, the efforts would be worth it, even if I don't get significant density in a year - if I develop new hairs and push the hairline at least half an inch lower to where it should be.. it would pay off in the long run..

----------


## sausage

> FUT's a killer, not for me, even if I had money. Surgeons like to cut stuff.. none of them I believe became hair surgeon first - they were previously cutting in other areas and at some point became hair surgeons. Wouldn't let anyone carve a square on the back of my head, even for hair loss, there are limits, and too much is too much.
> 
> I think I have some tiny hairs growing just below my receding hairlines.. I'm still roughly in my first month - I've read 6 months is a minimum, or up to 12 recommended for results to be visible. If my progress is further developing by passing of each month, the efforts would be worth it, even if I don't get significant density in a year - if I develop new hairs and push the hairline at least half an inch lower to where it should be.. it would pay off in the long run..


 Where did you get your hair restoration regimen from?

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> Where did you get your hair restoration regimen from?


 I've spent huge amount of time researching on-line.
By doing so I've gathered the best of resources, information, studies..

DHT=Cause of baldness
Stop DHT=Stop baldness
Propecia/Finasteride/Dutasteride=Anti-DHT but with potential serious risks
Solution=Natural DHT & 5-Alpha Reductase inhibitors
Time=Even with drugs treatment takes 6+ months, 1+ years, 2+ years

----------


## folliclefollies

DNA/genetics are not rational or fair, it's just luck. My several years older brother has literally no hair loss whatever, and I have rapidly expanding crown balding, etc. In the last 6 months, it's accelerated on steriods. He has no issues at all. 

In fact, my vertex is already in worse shape in just a few years than my well into his 90's maternal grandfather, and father.

MPB is caused by DHT sensitive follicles which are determined by birth or before. If you do not possess the genetics, you escape, even with lots of DHT in your scalp.

Age is obviously not much relevant, despite the public opinion associating baldness with advancing years. It's genetics, the time of follicle failure, degree of ultimate Norwood scale depth, and rate once it starts. You cannot control it, it's not fair, etc.

I have  young face, etc. and up until the past 5 years if you put my brother up against me and asked a stranger which was older, they would have said him. Now if you see my crown, you'd hear folks assume he was younger, despite the years he's in front of me.

Sucks, but it's reality and totally unfair.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Its true, we inherit hairs that are not resistant to DHT. And people with healthy, full set of hairs, they also have DHT but their hairs are resistant so they'll never get bald, they have no reason to worry about. Its very unfair reality - that we are so much marked by something that is programmed in advance, something we can't influence !

All the info is the genes, but as we cannot fix genes(maybe in decades they'll invent some kind of gene altering although I don't know if this is going to be a safe thing to do), there is only one solution - stop DHT. We can block DHT by blocking 5-alpha reductase (enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT) or by blocking androgen receptors - cells that act as keylocks for DHT.

Propecia works by blocking DHT but it carries a dangerous side effects.
Other stuff in nature are proven to block DHT.. BUT without side effects and these I am using - my current regiment incorporates 510mg of beta sitosterol, 300mg of saw palmetto etc..

----------


## sausage

I think that makes it even harder, although its not nice to wish baldness on someone it must make it even more depressing when a brother gets away with hairloss but you get screwed over. We all think 'why me' when it comes to balding but that is emphasised when a brother is singled out.

If my brother got away with no hairloss it would have probably added more agony to the whole situation, I would think everything is against me.

My brother has lost his hair too and he started at the same age as me which I think may be unusual as the brothers that I know...one has balded the other hasn't at all.

I think with a grade 0 head and a beefing up of my shoulders I could look ok bald. But hopefully I can get something done via FUE to make it look a bit better.

----------


## sausage

Hi stressedtothebald, Just thought I'd catch up, how are things going in your life?

I think its shave my head to grade 0 or FUT for me.

I will be shaving to a grade 0 soon and will see how I feel with that.

I am quite happy to look at myself in the mirror now that I forced myself to do it, my hair is bad but I feel although its bad I think I still look ok with it.

If I was self employed I probably would just go straight for FUT. But work causes problems, worrying about what people will think, my main concern is people at work knowing and then the HT not working, that would be totally embarrassing. If it works I'd have no problem. The people I work with are mainly young guys in their 20's I think I just need a bald conversation to start or a Rooney HT conversation to start and mention that I am thinking of getting something done, I think it could go down ok and people will just have some banter over it and have a laugh in a friendly way and that could make it easier for me.

I am only a temporary worker but I want to work there permanently but someone else will need to leave so in a few months I may not be working there if no1 leaves so will be a good time to go off to get a HT done as no1 will know about it.

We will see.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

I'm still sticking with my beta sitosterol and saw palmetto regimen. I can report seeing new hairs under my receding hairline, more noticable on left side where I can count several hairs which are more visible. Although its still just a very few and tiny hairs, fingers crossed - its been barely a month and if they keep coming out - I'm on the right road, in 6 or 12 months.. I could actually have a better frontal hairline for the first time in my life ! I was receding I think since early teen.. and having more hairs in the front for the first time in my life would be a miracle.

I'm considering to make a photo at the end of each month. I didn't exactly count days since I started, but I could mark the end of the first month when my current bottle of saw palmetto & beta ends.. In that sense I should follow Your example - shave to 1 or 0 soon. I need to shave(trim) anyway, long hair on a bald guy simply does not look good... 

Some days ago, I had to submit a photo for a document but I didn't know for sure if I could submit my own photo or if I would be asked to take my hat off and have my picture taken there at the spot.. there was a line and many people waiting behind me.. I felt like shit ! .. cause if asked to take off my hat - my hair was longer than usual and with so much balding in front and back - its not that so many people would see how pathetic I look - but I also would hate beeing seen in that state. Luck in it all, I was able to give in one of my old photos.. Saved from embarrassment !!!! Life is tough for bald men. 

Everyone has a right to make themselves better - physical, educational, emotional, spiritual.. improvement is improvement ! Transplant too ! Hey, if those guys were bald, they'd do it themselves ! I'd worry about the transplant and that the results are ok.. if its ok, looks good, no FUT scars etc. then people would could only be astonished with the results !!!

----------


## sausage

> I'm still sticking with my beta sitosterol and saw palmetto regimen. I can report seeing new hairs under my receding hairline, more noticable on left side where I can count several hairs which are more visible. Although its still just a very few and tiny hairs, fingers crossed - its been barely a month and if they keep coming out - I'm on the right road, in 6 or 12 months.. I could actually have a better frontal hairline for the first time in my life ! I was receding I think since early teen.. and having more hairs in the front for the first time in my life would be a miracle.
> 
> I'm considering to make a photo at the end of each month. I didn't exactly count days since I started, but I could mark the end of the first month when my current bottle of saw palmetto & beta ends.. In that sense I should follow Your example - shave to 1 or 0 soon. I need to shave(trim) anyway, long hair on a bald guy simply does not look good... 
> 
> Some days ago, I had to submit a photo for a document but I didn't know for sure if I could submit my own photo or if I would be asked to take my hat off and have my picture taken there at the spot.. there was a line and many people waiting behind me.. I felt like shit ! .. cause if asked to take off my hat - my hair was longer than usual and with so much balding in front and back - its not that so many people would see how pathetic I look - but I also would hate beeing seen in that state. Luck in it all, I was able to give in one of my old photos.. Saved from embarrassment !!!! Life is tough for bald men. 
> 
> Everyone has a right to make themselves better - physical, educational, emotional, spiritual.. improvement is improvement ! Transplant too ! Hey, if those guys were bald, they'd do it themselves ! I'd worry about the transplant and that the results are ok.. if its ok, looks good, no FUT scars etc. then people would could only be astonished with the results !!!


 Good luck with your medication routine, stick with it, at least if it does not get results you still have that hope for now.

I understand the whole photo issue. Since I started balding I have hated it whenever someone whips out a camera. Usually on nights out, Xmas do's etc then the photos get passed round at work.

I had to have my photo taken for a work security pass and hated that, I looked awful in the photo but I had to carry this card to work with me everyday to scan it on the door to get in. I stuck some tape over my face so I could not see my awful hair.

I recently had to renew my passport and as the photo in it was from when I was 16 (with hair) I felt that I had to update it because I now have little hair and have therefore changed a lot. I hated going to a photo booth and everything, absolutely hated it!

Hairloss really screws up your life on so many levels.

I think the guys at work would be cool with me getting a HT, we are like mates and I could happily laugh along with them aslong as I was happy with the result, if not I will be devastated and humiliated.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

I'm sticking with it all right. I can't afford the transplant and I don't want to end up impotent because of propecia.. so this is the best alternative. Even for propecia.. those success photos are 1+ or 2+ years..

The only solution for a bald guy to look anything decent on a photo is with trimmed or shaved hair. Everything else.. I hate my own balding photos. I find it surprising that some people simply don't care.. some even grow long hair and wear it in the back although in the front they're bald as eagle..

----------


## sausage

> I'm sticking with it all right. I can't afford the transplant and I don't want to end up impotent because of propecia.. so this is the best alternative. Even for propecia.. those success photos are 1+ or 2+ years..
> 
> The only solution for a bald guy to look anything decent on a photo is with trimmed or shaved hair. Everything else.. I hate my own balding photos. I find it surprising that some people simply don't care.. some even grow long hair and wear it in the back although in the front they're bald as eagle..


 Haha, this guy is a bit crazy looking. Do you know who he is? He does some work for the BBC in the UK reporting on The Arts/Culture (I think) thats probably why he goes for the crazy look.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Yeah, I saw he's with the BBC. He doesn't seem to be at all bothered with it.. I'd feel really really stupid with so much baldness yet with long 'haircut' style.. maybe this guy is one in a billion on whom it doesn't look completely ridiculous, maybe thats why he is keeping it.

----------


## sausage

> Yeah, I saw he's with the BBC. He doesn't seem to be at all bothered with it.. I'd feel really really stupid with so much baldness yet with long 'haircut' style.. maybe this guy is one in a billion on whom it doesn't look completely ridiculous, maybe thats why he is keeping it.


 It does look ridiculous. 

I just think he gets away with it because he is an Arts reporter.

I googled him and came across a website called c**ts corner and he gets lots of abuse, made me laugh though.

----------


## sausage

Just seen a guy on TV with no arms or legs and thought to myself I just need to grow some balls and get on with thing. Things could be worse.

But then again the minority that go through that kind of hell and I feel I should be like the masses and have hair so I am still bitter.

I am moving forward if only slightly, like I said I can look in the mirror now.

I think it gets a bit easier in away when you just shave your head, the hairs on the pillow aren't as noticeable, you don't have to gel your hair and end up with hair in your hands. You don't have that awful receded look anymore and most of all you don't have to go through the whole stress trying to hide it under carefully gelled hair as it is no longer possible to cover up, your bald everyone knows it, you know it, you just get on with it.

I hink I might get on my weights and bulk up a bit.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Theres always worse, people are sick, going through wars, poverty.. 
If it serves as any example, I'm poor and can't afford transplant, yet what can I do, have to live on or whatever.. and there are people doing much worse than me.

Yeah, those would be advantages, still I can still see my baldness even with trimmed hair, so it doesn't make me feel much better to be honest.. but neither does long bald hair.. both ways I feel miserable, feels like one sword with two blades.

----------


## sausage

Its just a huge dilemma whether to go for a Hair Transplant or not.

Such a massive decision.

Its still taking a lot of time to get the information I need to know exactly what I am getting into and what can be done for me.

I just want to know as quick as possible so I can start making a decision.

I think if I was working alone ie. Self Employed, I could quite easily take 2 weeks off and get it done without anyone knowing. As I work with 20+ people it is going to be a little awkward at work. Yet I suppose I go around with a hideous bald head everyday which everyone surely has a negative opinion on and everyone is bound to think feck me he's only in his 20's and he is bald as a egg. So getting a HT and turning up at work with possible signs of that with scaring and new hair to start with is probably just as bad as being bald anyway.

Can't you move to a more prosperous country and get paid better?

I am currently on a ridiculously low wage here in the UK but I am just lucky to have lived with parents and save money. I did run a very successful business for a year and I also won a decent amount of money too which has helped. These savings were supposed to be for a deposit on a house but half of it may have to go on a HT, that's how crap life is. If I had hair I would have a house, as I don't have hair I have to spend it on something else.

Maybe if I don't get a hair transplant I will buy myself a nice new VW Golf.

VW Golf or hair? hmmmmm?

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> Its just a huge dilemma whether to go for a Hair Transplant or not.
> 
> Such a massive decision.
> 
> Its still taking a lot of time to get the information I need to know exactly what I am getting into and what can be done for me.


 It is a massive decision. No doubt. For me its money issue. If I were rich and had more on the side, I'd do it, no questions asked. But then again, I guess even if one has money, its not a small amount to say good bye to..




> So getting a HT and turning up at work with possible signs of that with scaring and new hair to start with is probably just as bad as being bald anyway.


 I agree. I mean its bad enough going around bald and feel bad about it. How much worse can it be going around scarred with a HT but knowing that the better day and hair day is just around the corner. Besides if You want to avoid beeing around people with very visible scarring.. if I were You, I'd take one week off, maybe also around holidays and with weekends added.. the worst of swelling and scarring won't be as visible.




> Can't you move to a more prosperous country and get paid better?


 I'm pretty much screwed in that sense.. You have no idea how hard and impossible it is to emigrate from a non-EU country. Its not about moving, its about no one wants to give a non-EU citizen a work permit. Simple as that. If it were any different, You'd see me in UK, Ireland or USA right now and I'd be choosing a HT surgeon too. 




> I am currently on a ridiculously low wage here in the UK but I am just lucky to have lived with parents and save money. I did run a very successful business for a year and I also won a decent amount of money too which has helped. These savings were supposed to be for a deposit on a house but half of it may have to go on a HT, that's how crap life is. If I had hair I would have a house, as I don't have hair I have to spend it on something else.


 I still fail to understand why we are asked to pay a fortune for HT. I mean theres plenty of other cosmetic surgery procedures which fade in price comparing to HT. Plenty of those other procedures might be much more complicated, require full sedation, or materials - like with breast implants that women do.. Yet, we are required to deliver a fortune for something that shouldn't cost that much. Transplants should cost a few thousand max. For God's sake, the price of a small apartment in this country nearly matches the price of a good and full hair transplant in the West. So, I get Your point, You saved for a house.. and now You're supposed to give half of the house for a hair transplant.




> Maybe if I don't get a hair transplant I will buy myself a nice new VW Golf.
> 
> VW Golf or hair? hmmmmm?


 All depends on what Your future prospects are. You are blessed to live in a free and rich country.. If You can anticipate that You'll keep Your job or have other money aside or coming in the future.. then why not do it. If You can live with Your hair loss.. thats another issue, a car would be something to enjoy as well. Its hard for me to say really, I've never had the option of choosing between 2 goods, I usually only have the option of choosing between 2 evils, 2 have nots instead between 2 haves.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Btw, both You and me - we were right about propecia all along.
Here is the latest article about the 'proven' drug. Turns out propecia does much better in causing permanent sexual impotence, cancer and depression than it does treat the hairloss.. and look at the website propecia.com - they've disabled their own website, saying damaged people to complain to FDA..

http://www.examiner.com/courts-in-ba...#ixzz1mLgDjzw3

----------


## sausage

> So, I get Your point, You saved for a house.. and now You're supposed to give half of the house for a hair transplant.


 My money would not even get me half a house, it would just act as a deposit to get me on the property ladder. With that deposit and the low wage I earn I could only get a pretty small, crappy 1 bedroom flat which cost around £130,000 here in the south of England. And of course I'd have to borrow £100,000+ but thats all a bank. 

If I had a girlfriend to move in with and she had a little bit of money too then we could get a decent house together, thats what I hope for in the next few years.

So although It may be easier for me to save money in this country it is still ridiculously expensive to buy things.

But I guess I should be happy about living in a 'prosperous' country. Although at the moment our economy is not looking too great.

This is a random question but do you get much English TV where you are from?

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Yes, I understood that, I know property prices in UK are sky high. I was saying it in a sense - that the money which was supposed to go as initial foundation for the house now might end up for hair transplant.

I only watch English channels to be honest; have cable tv, same stuff You have there, I probably have here as well..

----------


## Tracy C

> Btw, both You and me - we were right about propecia all along.


 No you were not.

----------


## sausage

> Btw, both You and me - we were right about propecia all along.
> Here is the latest article about the 'proven' drug. Turns out propecia does much better in causing permanent sexual impotence, cancer and depression than it does treat the hairloss.. and look at the website propecia.com - they've disabled their own website, saying damaged people to complain to FDA..
> 
> http://www.examiner.com/courts-in-ba...#ixzz1mLgDjzw3


 I don't really know what to think about propecia and all that crap.

I can only guess that not many men use those products as I still see balding men everywhere.

Maybe cos its too expensive, or cos they don't want to risk any of those horrendous side effects.

I started taking something 9 years ago, I cannot remember what it was, I bought it online, it was possibly fake but I spent £300 on it, what a waste of money that was. I could not do with the expense at the time being a student and I could not be bothered popping pills everyday.

I thought to myself, if this really works a lot less people would be bald, so I never bothered with it, and never will.

60%+ of men will save their hair according to those pills if they take them.

But why does nobody take the bleeding things?

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> I don't really know what to think about propecia and all that crap.
> 
> I can only guess that not many men use those products as I still see balding men everywhere.
> 
> Maybe cos its too expensive, or cos they don't want to risk any of those horrendous side effects.
> 
> I started taking something 9 years ago, I cannot remember what it was, I bought it online, it was possibly fake but I spent £300 on it, what a waste of money that was. I could not do with the expense at the time being a student and I could not be bothered popping pills everyday.
> 
> I thought to myself, if this really works a lot less people would be bald, so I never bothered with it, and never will.
> ...


 Well, for one - the worst thing about it is that one is required to trade the potential of more hair with the potential of permanent impotence, depression or cancer. These risks are real and serious, yet many still gamble and end up on the loosing side.

Its not miraculous cure by any chance. It doesn't work with all people. And with those where it works - people can take this drug 1+ or 2+ years and although they achieve better density, they don't restore full density.

The price is a rip off too. 1 bottle costs nearly 100$. I mean its 1200$ per year, in 10 years one spends 12,000 dollars - better save up that and do a transplant or whatever.

The drug is also so 'proven' that one has to use it for life ! Yes, lifetime, otherwise baldness reappears !

The greatest recent disgrace - manufacturer Merck has disabled their own website propecia.com. With top 2 US Universities studies, professors and MDs finally speaking out what this drug really is and what it does - including permanent ED, cancer and depression.. its just a matter of time before everyone becomes informed and this drug will become history.. where it belongs, it deserves everything but the title 'the only proven baldness drug'.. Its repulsive how paid and unpaid propecia promoters praise and advertise this drug - even here on this forum ! And people who are desperate accept it without even checking the facts and reality - only to end up badly damaged and impotent for life. Imagine trying to cure Your baldness.. and ending up impotent with no way to fix it !

----------


## 25 going on 65

> Btw, both You and me - we were right about propecia all along.
> Here is the latest article about the 'proven' drug. Turns out propecia does much better in causing permanent sexual impotence, cancer and depression than it does treat the hairloss.. and look at the website propecia.com - they've disabled their own website, saying damaged people to complain to FDA..
> 
> http://www.examiner.com/courts-in-ba...#ixzz1mLgDjzw3


 This latest scare tactic can be ignored.

http://www.thebaldtruth.com/hair-los...eride-syndrom/

----------


## Tracy C

> I can only guess that not many men use those products as I still see balding men everywhere.
> 
> 60&#37;+ of men will save their hair according to those pills if they take them.
> 
> But why does nobody take the bleeding things?


 
I realize this may be difficult for you to accept but believe it or not many (possibly most) men are totally O.K. with being bald.  The last stats I read showed that less than 10% of balding men are bothered enough by their hair loss to try treating it.  That is not very many.  Most men I know in my personal life are totally fine with being bald.

----------


## sausage

> I realize this may be difficult for you to accept but believe it or not many (possibly most) men are totally O.K. with being bald.  The last stats I read showed that less than 10&#37; of balding men are bothered enough by their hair loss to try treating it.  That is not very many.  Most men I know in my personal life are totally fine with being bald.


 Well thats a load of rubbish, no1 wants to be bald.

Who in this world would choose to go bald, no1 would.

If god offered a man &#163;100,000 to suddenly be bald forever, no1 except very poor people would do that. People would not choose to go bald for &#163;1million.

That 10% stat may be true but its not low cos men are not bothered by it, they are bothered by it but there are no convincing treatments out there, nor can people afford Hair transplants and Hair Transplants themselves have a bad reputation generally.

If there was something out there that cost under &#163;1000 that was simple and easy to do that you only have to do once that got your hair back permanently EVERY man out there would be seeking treatment.

Its the current treatments that are the problem.

----------


## DAVE52

> Well thats a load of rubbish, no1 wants to be bald.
> 
> Who in this world would choose to go bald, no1 would..


 You have to understand that not everyone is affected by hair loss like those of us that come to this site for support.

To some people , it happens , and they deal / accept it and move on with their life. They are not all consumed by their hair loss 

Some of us , and I am one of them , it psychologically f*cks s up 

Google search

Sly bald guys

It is a very good site if you are looking for support in accepting your hairloss by means other than surgery, pills and or potions ...........in otherwords buzzing your head

----------


## Tracy C

> Well thats a load of rubbish...


 No it isn't.  I told you it would be difficult for your to accept - but it is the truth.  I have absolutely no reason or motivation to lie to you.






> Who in this world would choose to go bald, no1 would.


 Choosing to be bald and being able to accept that you will be bald are not the same thing.  Your response here indicates that you feel they are the same.  They are not the same.  Many (possibly most) men are able to accept it.






> That 10&#37; stat may be true but its not low cos men are not bothered by it...


 Some men do not want to invest the time to treat it - even if their hair loss bothers them.  Some men do not want to or are unbable to invest the money to treat it - even if their hair loss bothers them.  Some men simply do not want to be bothered with treating it - even if there hair loss bothers them.  Some men are simply not bothered enough by their hair loss to be bothered with treating it.  Not every balding man is as bothered by his hair loss as you are.  Only a small fraction of balding men are bothered enough by their hair loss to try to do something about it.






> If there was something out there that cost under &#163;1000 that was simple and easy to do that you only have to do once that got your hair back permanently EVERY man out there would be seeking treatment.


 Maybe.  We won't know for sure until such a thing actually exist.






> Its the current treatments that are the problem.


 This is true to some degree - but not to the degree you think it is.  Treating hair loss is a pain in the butt.  No argument there.  But really, it is not as much of a pain in the butt as you want to make it out to be.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> Well thats a load of rubbish, no1 wants to be bald.
> 
> Who in this world would choose to go bald, no1 would.
> 
> If god offered a man £100,000 to suddenly be bald forever, no1 except very poor people would do that. People would not choose to go bald for £1million.
> 
> That 10% stat may be true but its not low cos men are not bothered by it, they are bothered by it but there are no convincing treatments out there, nor can people afford Hair transplants and Hair Transplants themselves have a bad reputation generally.
> 
> If there was something out there that cost under £1000 that was simple and easy to do that you only have to do once that got your hair back permanently EVERY man out there would be seeking treatment.
> ...


 I agree. And its usually people who have full set of hairs who claim that they wouldn't care if they would end up bald like we are. The fact is, its not the same, it hurts and one also has to be a man to admit that baldness kills selfconfidence. Its usually expected from us guys to act tough.. so few would dare go out in public and talk about their baldness related feelings, but just because people don't speak about it publicly - it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt them or they wouldn't like a cure for this condition.

And very true also, that the current treatments are a load of balls to be honest. They are either utterly unsafe & health hazard like propecia or require a fortune like HT. Either way, nothing easy, affordable or straightforward !

I hope propecia gets officially banned. It deserves to get ditched out of the market for so many reasons - first beeing the fact that it ruined the life of thousands. Its a man-poison as one guy said at another thread, and now when all the cards are out and 2 university studies gone public - manufacturer has taken down its own website ! I hope all the damaged people to gather around and sue them for the every single penny they've made on this 'proven drug'..

As for the HTs.. Not even the expensive transplants are straightforward enough. One might pay a fortune and end up with poor results. And even more importantly - profits again come before anything. Ordinary people, even in the developed world are struggling to afford the enormous costs that transplant surgeons demand. Not to mention the sad cases like myself who are born poor and live in poor countries, for us transplant still exists only as a distant dream and wishful thinking !

----------


## Tracy C

StressedToTheBald,

You are without question the most misinformed person in this forum.  You are doing a great disservice the members of this forum.  You should just go away.

----------


## Maradona

> I agree. And its usually people who have full set of hairs who claim that they wouldn't care if they would end up bald like we are. The fact is, its not the same, it hurts and one also has to be a man to admit that baldness kills selfconfidence. Its usually expected from us guys to act tough.. so few would dare go out in public and talk about their baldness related feelings, but just because people don't speak about it publicly - it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt them or they wouldn't like a cure for this condition.
> 
> And very true also, that the current treatments are a load of balls to be honest. They are either utterly unsafe & health hazard like propecia or require a fortune like HT. Either way, nothing easy, affordable or straightforward !
> 
> I hope propecia gets officially banned. It deserves to get ditched out of the market for so many reasons - first beeing the fact that it ruined the life of thousands. Its a man-poison as one guy said at another thread, and now when all the cards are out and 2 university studies gone public - manufacturer has taken down its own website ! I hope all the damaged people to gather around and sue them for the every single penny they've made on this 'proven drug'..
> 
> As for the HTs.. Not even the expensive transplants are straightforward enough. One might pay a fortune and end up with poor results. And even more importantly - profits again come before anything. Ordinary people, even in the developed world are struggling to afford the enormous costs that transplant surgeons demand. Not to mention the sad cases like myself who are born poor and live in poor countries, for us transplant still exists only as a distant dream and wishful thinking !


 I kinda agree with ya man but propecia does work for most people with no side effects. I am not one of them but propecia is like playing russian roulette, the problem is the number of people that get shot from propecia is so small it will stay on the market for A LONG TIME.

its like 1 out of 1000, for permanent f'd up side effects.

----------


## sausage

> No it isn't.  I told you it would be difficult for your to accept - but it is the truth.  I have absolutely no reason or motivation to lie to you.


 I'll re-quote what you said:




> I realize this may be difficult for you to accept but believe it or not many (possibly most) men are totally O.K. with being bald. The last stats I read showed that less than 10% of balding men are bothered enough by their hair loss to try treating it. That is not very many. Most men I know in my personal life are totally fine with being bald.


 1. Just because 10% of balding men choose to do something about it DOES NOT mean the other 90% have accepted being bald.

2. As I said its nothing to do with men being bothered by it, its the fact there is nothing out there good enough to treat it.

3. If 9 of my friends started balding today according to you all 9 of them would accept it and be happy about it. That is definately not right. There is no chance any of my friends would be 'totally fine' with going bald. Absolutely no chance. Especially one of them who looks at himself in the mirror 24/7.

----------


## Tracy C

> I'll re-quote what you said:


 You are ignoring reality.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> I kinda agree with ya man but propecia does work for most people with no side effects. I am not one of them but propecia is like playing russian roulette, the problem is the number of people that get shot from propecia is so small it will stay on the market for A LONG TIME.
> 
> its like 1 out of 1000, for permanent f'd up side effects.


 Propecia is a health hazard. I've been telling it all along and sadly I was right all along. Its official now, two top 2 US Universities studies are out, Boston and Washington, Dr. Traish and Dr. Irwig have exposed the hazards of propecia. Percentages of side effects are much higher than presented by Merck ! And its not just temporary side effects, both doctors are pointing out to permanent ED, and the drug is also linked to cancer and depression. Merck website is down and lawyers are preparing for first class lawsuits ! People will be pressing charges all over the place.. and I for can't blame them.. by now its probably thousands whose lives have been ruined by propecia.

http://www.examiner.com/courts-in-ba...#ixzz1mLgDjzw3

This drug is finished. The news is out there and soon everyone will know. Merck will soon be forced to pay damages and settlements, its now in the legal system and theres no way back. I'm glad this man-poison as one guy called it is finally going to see its final hours.

----------


## 2020

> Propecia is a health hazard. I've been telling it all along and sadly I was right all along. Its official now, two top 2 US Universities studies are out, Boston and Washington, Dr. Traish and Dr. Irwig have exposed the hazards of propecia. Percentages of side effects are much higher than presented by Merck ! And its not just temporary side effects, both doctors are pointing out to permanent ED, and the drug is also linked to cancer and depression. Merck website is down and lawyers are preparing for first class lawsuits ! People will be pressing charges all over the place.. and I for can't blame them.. by now its probably thousands whose lives have been ruined by propecia.
> 
> http://www.examiner.com/courts-in-ba...#ixzz1mLgDjzw3


 **** off....

----------


## sausage

> You are ignoring reality.


 I really am Tracy, I really am.

None of my 9 friends would give 2 craps about going bald, you are totally correct. In fact they actually all wish they could be bald right now.

----------


## Tracy C

Now you are twisting things around.

----------


## DAVE52

> None of my 9 friends would give 2 craps about going bald,..........


 Your sample size is too small

There are millions of people who are bald or who chosen to shave their head 

Some people actually do liek the shaven head look and feel 

Tehy have accepted their gentic fate

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> Its still taking a lot of time to get the information I need to know exactly what I am getting into and what can be done for me.
> 
> I just want to know as quick as possible so I can start making a decision.


 If You decide to go with the transplant, what kind of a front line are You going to ask to be done ? I see pictures of some transplants and seems plenty of surgeons are doing roundish frontal line, curved ones.. although this looks better, it still reminds me of the receding shapes way too much.. For example:


If possible I'd ask for a full straight frontal line going as low as possible.. Something like this:

----------


## Tracy C

> If possible I'd ask for a full straight frontal line going as low as possible...


 Generally doctors reconstruct a normal and natural looking mature male hair line.  Doctors will do the hair line you want for male patients who are transgendered.  However, there is really no benefit to doing it for male patients who are not.

----------


## sausage

> If You decide to go with the transplant, what kind of a front line are You going to ask to be done ? I see pictures of some transplants and seems plenty of surgeons are doing roundish frontal line, curved ones.. although this looks better, it still reminds me of the receding shapes way too much.. For example:
> 
> 
> If possible I'd ask for a full straight frontal line going as low as possible.. Something like this:


 Not sure.

I am waiting for several consultations to come back as I sent out a new set of photos.

I want to see how much surgeons opinions vary. I will probably have to go for a higher hairline than my original. I'd prefer it to be straightish. but will probably go for a slightly curved hairline. I would not particularly want one as 'v' shaped as that first photo. Maybe something inbetween those two.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> Not sure.
> 
> I am waiting for several consultations to come back as I sent out a new set of photos.
> 
> I want to see how much surgeons opinions vary. I will probably have to go for a higher hairline than my original. I'd prefer it to be straightish. but will probably go for a slightly curved hairline. I would not particularly want one as 'v' shaped as that first photo. Maybe something inbetween those two.


 All right. Please report back on what they say, I'm really interested to know what the overall stance on this is.. I'd personally go with straight line, line in the 2nd picture, people with best hair density and overall looks of the hair I believe have this expressed low and full straight hairline.. I guess its all genetic trait, few are blessed to be born with it.

----------


## sausage

> All right. Please report back on what they say, I'm really interested to know what the overall stance on this is.. I'd personally go with straight line, line in the 2nd picture, people with best hair density and overall looks of the hair I believe have this expressed low and full straight hairline.. I guess its all genetic trait, few are blessed to be born with it.


 This is pretty exhausting. Not really getting anywhere with it at the moment. Some surgeons/clinics don't bother to reply. I sent Feriduni an email 2 weeks ago and have nothing back from him.

Getting fed up to be honest.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> This is pretty exhausting. Not really getting anywhere with it at the moment. Some surgeons/clinics don't bother to reply. I sent Feriduni an email 2 weeks ago and have nothing back from him.
> 
> Getting fed up to be honest.


 I can only assume, with so much at stake.. plenty of money, potential outcomes.. it must be stressful as hell. If they don't reply.. I wouldn't bother, I'd ditch those straight away.

Have You contacted Dr. Cole ? He's is in USA though.. but pretty much does only FUE. I've talked with him here on the forum, and what I like about him is that he really pays attention to details, knows a lot and follows latest stuff and researches.. Plus, he's not ignoring people, he talks both transplant and wider issues and always gives an honest answer about what can and cannot be done.

----------


## sausage

> I can only assume, with so much at stake.. plenty of money, potential outcomes.. it must be stressful as hell. If they don't reply.. I wouldn't bother, I'd ditch those straight away.
> 
> Have You contacted Dr. Cole ? He's is in USA though.. but pretty much does only FUE. I've talked with him here on the forum, and what I like about him is that he really pays attention to details, knows a lot and follows latest stuff and researches.. Plus, he's not ignoring people, he talks both transplant and wider issues and always gives an honest answer about what can and cannot be done.


 Yeah I emailed him 2 days ago so hoping for a reply soon.

It is very exhausting for me personally as my case is not simple as I need a lot of work to restore my hair to some reasonable level. I am very skeptical so have a lot of questions. Many surgeons and advisors have differing opinions about various things which is confusing. You think you are making a step forward with decisions and feedback to then take 2 steps back. On top of that surgeons not replying at all makes it incredibly frustrating.

I just want to be able to make a decision on surgery or no surgery or at least have someone make that decision for me. Then I can move forward, at the moment I am no where near making any sort of decision.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> Yeah I emailed him 2 days ago so hoping for a reply soon.
> 
> It is very exhausting for me personally as my case is not simple as I need a lot of work to restore my hair to some reasonable level. I am very skeptical so have a lot of questions. Many surgeons and advisors have differing opinions about various things which is confusing. You think you are making a step forward with decisions and feedback to then take 2 steps back. On top of that surgeons not replying at all makes it incredibly frustrating.
> 
> I just want to be able to make a decision on surgery or no surgery or at least have someone make that decision for me. Then I can move forward, at the moment I am no where near making any sort of decision.


 I'm sure he'll reply, unlike other surgeons he spends lots on time on the forum as well, I was pleasantly surprised someone actually takes time to talk with potential patients.

I'd have lots of questions too. Its expensive and complicated stuff.. and the results are crucial. Yeah, I can assume different surgeons have different attitudes towards stuff, so You'll get plenty of different answers..

This reminded me, I've read at another thread - someone mentioned that if replicel works.. the price might be 10,000$... Now, thats way beyond what I hoped for.. I thought it was planned for it to be like a one time affordable cure.. much cheaper.. but no, not gonna happen. And worst of it all.. even if it works, all right - its still cheaper than transplant - but will it really be permanent and one time cure or again something of a half way solution.. if so, then its not gonna be worth it.

----------


## sausage

> I'm sure he'll reply, unlike other surgeons he spends lots on time on the forum as well, I was pleasantly surprised someone actually takes time to talk with potential patients.
> 
> I'd have lots of questions too. Its expensive and complicated stuff.. and the results are crucial. Yeah, I can assume different surgeons have different attitudes towards stuff, so You'll get plenty of different answers..
> 
> This reminded me, I've read at another thread - someone mentioned that if replicel works.. the price might be 10,000$... Now, thats way beyond what I hoped for.. I thought it was planned for it to be like a one time affordable cure.. much cheaper.. but no, not gonna happen. And worst of it all.. even if it works, all right - its still cheaper than transplant - but will it really be permanent and one time cure or again something of a half way solution.. if so, then its not gonna be worth it.


 I think its supposed to be a permanent solution.

10,000$ is a bit steep, the hair transplant industry will be screwed if it does work. I am not sure where that figure has come from so I am not sure if you should take that price seriously.

Hopefully we will hear good news in April.

Maybe by the time I am 30 that will be available and I can live the rest of my life in happiness.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

They all are meant to be permanent solutions, but hardly anything ever becomes one. Plenty promote propecia and minoxidil, saying they are proven - even though they hardly work for everyone and side effects can be devastating.

I don't know how accurate that figure is. At Replicel thread one guy claims that CEO of Replicel mentioned the price of 10,000$ if treatment is proven.

----------


## Tracy C

> I think its supposed to be a permanent solution.


 If Replicel's treatment can immunize hair follicles from the damaging effects of DHT as well as repair follicles that have already been damaged, it will be a permanent solution.  Only time will tell.

The cost for Replicel's treatment is expected to be competitive or at least in-line with hair transplant surgery.  Even if it is not truly permanent but it does repair damaged hair follicles, I feel it would be worth it.

----------


## sausage

If its 10,000$ for a non permanent solution then screw that.

Do I want to go through the process of losing my hair again?

Not really especially for that price.

If its not permanent it should be much much much less in price than that.

----------


## Tracy C

Keep in mind that this is a feminine opinion...

Even if it is not permanent, it will still be worth it to me to repair my damaged hair follicles so I can get the density back that I once had.  I now know how to manage my hair loss with meds and the meds work.  So even if the treatment itself is not a permanent solution, I won't loose my hair again.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

> If its 10,000$ for a non permanent solution then screw that.
> 
> Do I want to go through the process of losing my hair again?
> 
> Not really especially for that price.
> 
> If its not permanent it should be much much much less in price than that.


 My point as well. If its not one time and permanent solution, then giving so much would be the complete waste of money..

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Do You have something similar to this ?
http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/album.p...pictureid=1842

----------


## sausage

Something similar.

From finally getting courage to look in the mirror, I notice light, thin, soft, short, blonde hairs on my temples, not sure why these hairs are there, is that my old hair that is minaturised?

I think everyone gets these types of hairs around their hairline, not sure exactly what they are, I wonder if I died them brown they would stand out and make it look like I have more hair.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

My baldness is very similar to previous picture.

I have those tiny blonde hairs too. But more importantly I've regrown a few that actually got proper colour ! I just need more of them, much more. The problem is not as much to colour them, but to make them grow..

----------


## sausage

> My baldness is very similar to previous picture.
> 
> I have those tiny blonde hairs too. But more importantly I've regrown a few that actually got proper colour ! I just need more of them, much more. The problem is not as much to colour them, but to make them grow..


 If they are the hairs that are supposed to be revived by Propecia, I would not see the pointe personally as I have a lot more of them on my right temple so if they all grew I'd have one temple thicker than the other.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

What needs to be revived are those hairs that we might not see at all.. I actually think I now have a few more hairs on the left but that also might be light related.. also some time ago, I took a razor and shaved just a bit a bit of the already bald areas in the receding hairlines.. in tiny hope that something might regrow a bit better..

Propecia's not worth it, side effects can be devastating.. plus.. doesn't even work for many... imagine using it for 5 years with no visible regrowth whatsoever.. I was reading several guys comments on this very forum.

----------


## sausage

> What needs to be revived are those hairs that we might not see at all.. I actually think I now have a few more hairs on the left but that also might be light related.. also some time ago, I took a razor and shaved just a bit a bit of the already bald areas in the receding hairlines.. in tiny hope that something might regrow a bit better..
> 
> Propecia's not worth it, side effects can be devastating.. plus.. doesn't even work for many... imagine using it for 5 years with no visible regrowth whatsoever.. I was reading several guys comments on this very forum.


 It is overhyped, many people on here religiously take it and stand by it. 

I can understand people taking it if they still have a lot of hair, but for me there is no point.

For people that want kids in the near future again its not worth them bothering with until they stop having kids.

For young people just starting to lose hair I can see a reason for giving it a go, but taking it for 5 years and seeing no growth, why? after 2 years would be enough to see your waisting your time.

Its time a proper treatment turned up.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Its indeed all that. And this bottle of half-empty promise and full set of potential side effects - 'only' costs around 100$ per month !

I too fail to understand why some people use it for years, even though theres no regrowth.. I actually know why, for some people, saving what they have seems worthy enough - if they're half bald, they like staying half bald and think the drug helps.. it makes no sense whatsoever, but thats what they think anyway.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Just saw the weirdest most likely record number of grafts !!!
Man, I mean... this guy's probably a millioner as transplant this large would be exceeding 50,000$+

Check this out: 7355 follicular units: 12,836 hairs transplanted
http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/album.p...pictureid=1012

----------


## Tracy C

> I too fail to understand why some people use it for years, even though theres no regrowth...


 The reason you fail to see it is simple.  You see, you are stupid.  You refuse to understand what is needed to slow down, stop or reverse hereditary hair loss.  It is really sad to see someone so foolish.  It is even more sad to see how contagious your foolishness is.

----------


## sausage

> Just saw the weirdest most likely record number of grafts !!!
> Man, I mean... this guy's probably a millioner as transplant this large would be exceeding 50,000$+
> 
> Check this out: 7355 follicular units: 12,836 hairs transplanted
> http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/album.p...pictureid=1012


 Yep must be rich.

Lets try not to mention Propecia again.

Some people on here love the stuff so much I am beginning to think they must be getting paid to promote the stuff.

Propecia can cause very serious harmful side effects FACT. Maybe it happens to few people but it still happens, if you are taking the stuff you are at risk FACT.

Some people love the stuff some hate the stuff, some have wasted money on the stuff, some it has worked for, some have been made impotent by the stuff. 

I would not recommend anyone taking the stuff as I would not want to risk anyone impotency. I would feel so guilty if that happend.

People can choose to take it at their own risk and own expense.

End of.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

I agree, a group of people who praise propecia here and suggest it on every single thread, they promote it in such fashion that it feels like they've been paid to do the marketing regardless of anything.

And excellent point You've made.. with so much serious and permanent risks involved.. how can these people so easily advise it with a claim of how safe it is. If worst happens, they won't take the blame or responsibilty for false advertising and peoples' lives beeing ruined. No quilt, no remorse, its proposterous !

----------


## 2020

> I agree, a group of people who praise propecia here and suggest it on every single thread, they promote it in such fashion that it feels like they've been paid to do the marketing regardless of anything.


 ok... and you bash Propecia is such fashion that it feels like you've been paid to do the marketing by one of its competitors... Merck doesn't even make money from generics, what would be the point?!?

All I was trying to do was help him MAKE a decision on whether to use Propecia or not.
I pointed him to many valid scientific studies and if he decided not use Propecia based on that then that's fine.
He shouldn't make that decision based on your ramblings...




> And excellent point You've made.. with so much serious and permanent risks involved.. how can these people so easily advise it with a claim of how safe it is. If worst happens, they won't take the blame or responsibilty for false advertising and peoples' lives beeing ruined. No quilt, no remorse, its proposterous !


 every forum has its crazies... *** has squegee, HairSite has hanginginthere and BaldTruth has you.... congratulations!

So far YOUR theories hasn't been proved. There are no permanent side effects. Cite a legitimate source that says it ain't so.

----------


## 25 going on 65

> Yep must be rich.
> 
> Lets try not to mention Propecia again.
> 
> Some people on here love the stuff so much I am beginning to think they must be getting paid to promote the stuff.
> 
> Propecia can cause very serious harmful side effects FACT. Maybe it happens to few people but it still happens, if you are taking the stuff you are at risk FACT.
> 
> Some people love the stuff some hate the stuff, some have wasted money on the stuff, some it has worked for, some have been made impotent by the stuff. 
> ...


 If you look at the posting histories of those who routinely recommend finasteride on this forum, it is absurd to suggest they are paid to promote Propecia. Take my example:
1. I made an account in 2010 to vent about my depression due to hair loss.
2. I was inactive on the forum for something like a year, or close to it.
3. I returned to report good results from quartered, generic 5 mg finasteride tablets (not Propecia or even Proscar) and ketoconazole (also not Propecia or Proscar).
4. I bring up dutasteride on a regular basis as a viable hair loss treatment, which if anything undermines Merck's products.

On the other hand, STTB seems to bring up bogus finasteride "hazards" in virtually every active thread, _whether or not anyone is discussing it._ He also regularly pushes treatments known not to work, whether or not they relate to the thread he is posting in. If you want to find a paid advertiser on the forum, check his profile. (Though personally I think he's just a misinformed, depressed guy with tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.)

Aside from all that, there is currently no scientific evidence that finasteride causes permanent side effects.
Do I recommend it routinely? Yes, absolutely, for the following reasons:

1. We now have a decade and a half of scientific data demonstrating high rates of success (i.e. maintaining and improving existing hair, sometimes with noticeable regrowth as well) and low rates of side effects, which contrary to the fear mongering on this forum, DO subside when quitting the drug. (If side effects can be permanent, there is no evidence as of yet.)
2. The only successful method yet discovered for addressing the cause of MPB is DHT suppression. There are currently only two products that do this: finasteride and dutasteride. I recommend the former as a first approach because there is less data about long-term use of the latter in treating hair loss.
3. For almost anyone considering a transplant, DHT suppression is a must. 

In fact, that is one of the most unethical aspects of STTB's posts (other than lying about finasteride and pushing useless products on balding people): he recommends hair transplant surgery *while also telling people to avoid DHT suppression.* Any idiot on this forum knows that this is a HORRIBLE idea in 9/10 cases, and will inevitably lead to an awful-looking head of hair as native hairs continue falling and leave the transplanted hairs as the only ones standing.

Sorry, but STTB has contributed very little to this forum other than terrible advice and scare mongering. If you think he's saying anything useful, by all means follow his directions... maybe someday you can equally bald.

----------


## chrisis

It's amazing how powerful our own personal experiences are in order to form our opinions. Anecdotal evidence is frowned upon scientifically, unless it's rigorously controlled and in great number. This is because we are susceptible to forming biases that are *not*  appropriate when trying to form a scientific understanding of a given subject.

There are definitely a few people on this forum who are are either too pro-propecia, or too anti-propecia. Can't we all just accept that finasteride *can* cause sexual health issues in *some* men? The number is up for debate, but going off my research on the forums, it's significant enough to demand people take note. 

I'm sure I speak for many when I say I'm getting irritated by the pointless back and forth in this debate. Nobody really knows how significant the risks are, so while it's important to remind men to be cautious, constantly attacking or defending propecia is absolutely pointless and counter-productive for a community aspiring to find solutions to the hair loss problem we all face! 

Peace out.  :Smile:

----------


## 25 going on 65

Chris, I like you and you seem like a truly nice guy, but let's get real for a moment. Almost all the "back and forth" on this forum in recent times has stemmed from StressedToTheBald's hijacking of nearly every active thread with completely rubbish rhetoric about finasteride vs. "natural" supplements that have either not been proven to work, or have been proven not to work.

He found an article on examiner.com about a doctor who sent an Arizona Sexual Experience questionnaire to several dozen members of propeciahelp.com, and then spammed the entire forum with it non-stop for several days, claiming "it is now official: finasteride is a public health hazard."
If you can't see what's wrong with that, you might be too nice for your own good. Which I guess is a positive testament to your character. 
But those of us who have been fighting hair loss for awhile (anywhere from 2 to 15+ years) have little patience for such blatant nonsense. What STTB is doing is unethical, whether or not he realizes it. A bald man trying to drag the whole forum down the NW scale with him shouldn't expect to get a warm reception.

Now he's even suggesting to people that they get hair transplants without suppressing DHT, which is an absolutely disgraceful piece of advice. If we want to talk about "ruining men's lives" (one of his favorite stories about finasteride), his ideas will do a very good job of it.

----------


## 2020

> Can't we all just accept that finasteride *can* cause sexual health issues in *some* men? The number is up for debate, but going off my research on the forums, it's significant enough to demand people take note.


 of course the people who are not happy with a drug will be more vocal... but that doesn't mean anything.

read this: http://************/6p7zpte





> Nobody really knows how significant the risks are, so while it's important to remind men to be cautious, constantly attacking or defending propecia is absolutely pointless and counter-productive for a community aspiring to find solutions to the hair loss problem we all face!


 yes we do.... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

----------


## Tracy C

> ...every forum has its crazies... *** has squegee, HairSite has hanginginthere and BaldTruth has you.... congratulations!


 It's the village idiot syndrome (VIS).

----------


## chrisis

2020, we really don't know. 

When I started taking it, I thought the odds of having sexual issues were around 2%. Lo and behold I now know I'm in that 2%.  Maybe it's just bad luck though, yeah?

One problem: I also know another guy who took finasteride and has issues. 

What are the odds that 2 random men would be in the 2% who are affected by the drug? 2% x 2% = 0.0004%.

Something tells me the data is wrong.

----------


## 2020

> 2020, we really don't know. 
> 
> When I started taking it, I thought the odds of having sexual issues were around 2%. Lo and behold I now know I'm in that 2%.  Maybe it's just bad luck though, yeah?
> 
> One problem: I also know another guy who took finasteride and has issues. 
> 
> What are the odds that 2 random men would be in the 2% who are affected by the drug? 2% x 2% = 0.0004%.
> 
> Something tells me the data is wrong.


 yes but there are *multiple*, *international* studies done by separate institutions and somehow they all ended up with similar results... how is THAT possible?

----------


## amadeus

Both 25 going on 65 and Chrisis make good points. I can understand the frustration of a lot of the guys here when they read all of these spammy and frankly stupid posts made by StressedtobeBald. I think he is very misguided and probably very immature for an adult, but he is entitled to his opinion. I think these threads add to the entertainment value of the forum. Im here because of my hair loss like the rest of you, but sometimes its interesting to see such differing views and how people go about expressing them. I personally believe Propecia is a very safe drug as far as drugs go. All drugs come with risks, many being life threatening in a small number of people. So far Propecia has not killed anyone so I would say its safer then most.  Hair loss ****s with our minds, and I say that at least for me, has made me a little more susceptible to being a little paranoid at times. We have no clue what the mental states are of the people who have such severe side effects from Propecia. I tend to believe that the  clinical trials including the latest Japanese trial pretty much says it all. Sexual side effects can happen. They do not happen to most men who take Propecia. Most men, meaning, over 90% have no problems taking it and it helps them keep their hair longer. If you dont want to take it dont take it. Its a choice. But I believe that if people were just allowed to make the decision to take it, without all of the crazy warning everybody on every thread, we would see far less people complaining about side effects.

----------


## Tracy C

> But I believe that if people were just allowed to make the decision to take it, without all of the crazy warning everybody on every thread, we would see far less people complaining about side effects.


 That is probably true.  All this fear mongering can and likely will increase the number of men who experience side effects.

----------


## chrisis

Sorry, 25 going on 65 - didn't see your post.

I include both sides of the spectrum when criticising people arguing about propecia  :Big Grin:

----------


## chrisis

> All this fear mongering can and likely will increase the number of men who experience side effects.


 I'd agree this may have been possible in my case, *if* my side effects were *just* loss of libido, because it could be argued a psychological response. However, if someone experiences physical manifestations of sexual side effects, e.g. much lower volume of semen, how can this be rationalised as a psychological consequence of reading too many horror stories on a forum? Possible maybe, but unlikely in my opinion.

----------


## Tracy C

> Possible maybe, but unlikely in my opinion.


 It is more possible and likely than you realize.

----------


## chrisis

*Do not read if you are easily offended
*

Are you honestly, totally comfortable with the belief that within 2 months, I go from someone who shoots a big load, to a pathetic dribble, because I may have read a few posts on a forum? Despite the fact that I took propecia dismissing the potential side effects as unlikely? Are you so confident in this belief to confidently tell me it's all in my head?

You have balls  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## amadeus

If you consider that a serious side effect then you might have more issues then you think.

----------


## 25 going on 65

I will say this much: I am open to the possibility that more than 2% of men experience side effects on finasteride. I'm even open to the possibility than a tiny percenage of men experience side effects that persist after quitting the drug (very unlikely to be permanent, but perhaps persistent for a number of months).

But granting the possibility is as far as we can go until we have real scientific data. It's a far cry from saying that there is more than a 90% chance of side effects, or that you will get permanent ED from finasteride, or that it's an "official health hazard soon to be pulled from the market," or that unregulated herbal remedies are effective alternatives with no side effects whatsoever.

----------


## Tracy C

> Are you so confident in this belief to confidently tell me it's all in my head?


 You are reading too much into what I said...  Now think about that for a minute or two...

----------


## chrisis

> If you consider that a serious side effect then you might have more issues then you think.


 Lacking sexual libido isn't a serious side effect?  :Confused: 

Tracy C, I'm confused. I simply explained in graphic detail what your opinion means in a very real sense to a guy who is experiencing sexual side effects as a consequence of taking finasteride. You did say that it's "more likely than I realise" that fear mongering causes such side effects. It's fine to have that opinion, but I'm really not sure you can be so confident that it's *correct*. I have more qualification to not be so confident.

----------


## Tracy C

> Tracy C, I'm confused.


 You read too much into what I said...  Think about it for a few days or so...

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Take no notice of what they're saying chrisis.. 
Even if people were to start dropping dead all over the place as a side effect, they'd still keep on promoting propecia and claim how perfectly safe this drug is. They had their humanity and compassion surgically removed and now work for Merck's advertising department.

----------


## 25 going on 65

> Take no notice of what they're saying chrisis.. 
> Even if people were to start dropping dead all over the place as a side effect, they'd still keep on promoting propecia and claim how perfectly safe this drug is. They had their humanity and compassion surgically removed and now work for Merck's advertising department.


 I've already explained why your conspiracy theory makes no sense. But as evidenced in the thread Zao posted in, you don't take the time to read posts anymore - you just spam, move on, and spam some more.

You are hurting people who are actually serious about treating their hair loss. Telling them "quit suppressing DHT and save the money for a transplant" - how unethical are you? Now _that_ is a lack of humanity and compassion.
Just because you went bald on alternative remedies doesn't mean the rest of the population has to jump off the cliff with you. Leave them alone and let them keep their hair.

----------


## amadeus

> Take no notice of what they're saying chrisis.. 
> Even if people were to start dropping dead all over the place as a side effect, they'd still keep on promoting propecia and claim how perfectly safe this drug is. They had their humanity and compassion surgically removed and now work for Merck's advertising department.


 Okay, that settles it, we are dealing with a Class A moron here! Carry on.

----------


## sausage

I understand people saying that the medication that Stressed is taking is pointless.

But I just let him get on with it, it makes him feel better trying it, it does not harm anyone else. He does not have the money to afford other treatments.

I also do not believe anyone on these forums would take his advice so not sure what the fuss is about.

----------


## 25 going on 65

I do believe some readers on this forum will take his advice. That's the main reason I don't leave it alone.
I honestly wouldn't mind if he said, "I'm not willing to risk side effects from finasteride, so I'm experimenting with alternative remedies."

Instead, what he says is, "finasteride is an official public health hazard that will soon be pulled from the market! There is more than a 90% chance of side effects, including permanent ED and problems with brain chemistry! Natural alternatives are proven to work and have no side effects! Anyone who disagrees with any of that is just a paid advertiser from Merck! And you should get a transplant without a DHT inhibitor [so that in a few years your native hair falls out and leaves nothing but the transplanted grafts on top of your head]!"

On a side note. I don't see how he can afford 6-8 alternative remedies at a time, but not generic 5 mg finasteride tablets.

----------


## sausage

> I do believe some readers on this forum will take his advice.


 I doubt it.

If people do take his advice then (no offense to stressed) they are naive, no-one should take the advice of one person, they should take the time to research.

If someone takes one persons advice and thats it then they deserve any downfall that comes their way.

----------


## 25 going on 65

> I doubt it.
> 
> If people do take his advice then (no offense to stressed) they are naive, no-one should take the advice of one person, they should take the time to research.
> 
> If someone takes one persons advice and thats it then they deserve any downfall that comes their way.


 I don't doubt it. I recall how desperate I was when I first started looking into hair loss treatments, and how I almost wasted money on scams like Provillus.

I agree it would be naive to rely on one person's advice. But if we can change even one naive person's mind and allow him (or her) to stop losing hair, it's worth the trouble. I wouldn't wish baldness on anyone except people who really deserve it, like Vladimir Putin.

----------


## StressedToTheBald

Unlike with propecia promoters here, my stance is actually backed by research and latest risk studies, so people can check for themselves instead of putting blind faith in manufacturer's claims and their marketing agents here.

----------


## 2020

> Unlike with propecia promoters here, my stance is actually backed by research and latest risk studies, so people can check for themselves instead of putting blind faith in manufacturer's claims.


 you cannot be serious!?!??

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

----------


## 25 going on 65

> Unlike with propecia promoters here, my stance is actually backed by research and latest risk studies, so people can check for themselves instead of putting blind faith in manufacturer's claims.


 You haven't provided a legitimate scientific study for the following claims:

-That 90+ % of finasteride users experience side effects.
-That finasteride causes permanent ED and other permanent side effects.
-That natural remedies are a viable alternative in preventing the progression of genetic alopecia.

Sorry, ranking a few dozen members of propeciahelp.com on the Arizona Sexual Experience Scale doesn't qualify.

On the other hand, people on this forum _have_ linked you to 15+ years of scientific studies that contradict your claims about finasteride.

----------


## sausage

> I don't doubt it. I recall how desperate I was when I first started looking into hair loss treatments, and how I almost wasted money on scams like Provillus.
> 
> I agree it would be naive to rely on one person's advice. But if we can change even one naive person's mind and allow him (or her) to stop losing hair, it's worth the trouble. I wouldn't wish baldness on anyone except people who really deserve it, like Vladimir Putin.


 There is so much bollox out there, its impossible to police it.

I think I bought fake hairloss pills off the internet ages ago and got ripped off £300. That was my own naive fault. People just need to research, research and research.

----------


## 25 going on 65

> There is so much bollox out there, its impossible to police it.
> 
> I think I bought fake hairloss pills off the internet ages ago and got ripped off &#163;300. That was my own naive fault. People just need to research, research and research.


 You are right, research is key, and the final decision lies with each individual. But if you asked us, "should I buy these hair loss pills online for 300 pounds?" Most of us on this forum would have advised you not to, and would have been happy save you the trouble.  We certainly wouldn't have pushed you to spend hundreds or thousands on remedies that show no promise of working.
That's a big part of what this forum is for in my opinion: guiding people towards legitimate options (which they may or may not take advantage of) and away from snake oil.

----------


## baldozer

> The term, dominant means that only one gene of a pair is needed for the trait to show up in the individual. A recessive gene means that both genes need to be present in order for the trait to be expressed. The genes involved in balding from androgenetic alopecia are felt to be dominant.


 So you mean that if either the father or mother passes the balding gene, the son will be bald. If that is the case, then how come I know a family where the father is bald, but none of his children are. Secondly, if a man is bald, how many percentage chances are that he would pass the gene?

----------

