# Men's Hair Loss > Men's Hair Loss: Start Your Own Topic >  Starting dutasteride

## 25 going on 65

Switching from finasteride tomorrow, after years of good results. Already have the capsules. I am nervous but science is on my side.
Thank you Big Pharma. You are unethical and greedy for money, but less greedy than I am for hair.

Wish me luck. I will update the forum like I did with fin and keto shampoo.

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## drybone

Good luck to you !!!  :Smile: 

I just started finasteride. Why did u switch? What is this dutasteride?

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## BigThinker

Best luck,  man.

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## 25 going on 65

*Update*
First dose was 12 hours ago. Hair is now a fully dense Norwood 1, however, penis has fallen off.
Overall assessment: worth it.

but seriously, thank you guys for your well wishes.




> Good luck to you !!! 
> 
> I just started finasteride. Why did u switch? What is this dutasteride?


 Dutasteride is the active ingredient in Avodart. It blocks more 5-alpha reductase than finasteride, and 5-ar is the enzyme that forms DHT by combining with testosterone (DHT is the hormone that causes follicles to miniaturize). It is better for maintenance than regrowth (like fin) but I am hoping for the best.
I switched basically because I am trying to build on my results from meds. I want to avoid any kind of surgery as long as possible. I am NW2 with slight diffuse loss....my hair looks quite good when styled (people do not know I have MPB and I want it to stay that way), and I have meds to thank for that because I was rapidly thinning 4-5 years ago. My honest opinion, you are on the right track by starting fin.

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## drybone

Thanks . 

When can I expect the shedding to start. Its been almost 2 weeks. Or is the shedding gradual like the MPB was so I dont necessarily notice it in the shower but will notice it in the mirror ?

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## Aames

Hi, are you using actual avodart, dutas, dutagen, or some other generic? I'm toying with the idea of ordering some dutas and taking it with fin until I run out of fin.

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## 25 going on 65

> Thanks . 
> 
> When can I expect the shedding to start. Its been almost 2 weeks. Or is the shedding gradual like the MPB was so I dont necessarily notice it in the shower but will notice it in the mirror ?


 Everyone is different man. Some people do not notice a shed, some others say they shed badly for a year or more before things improve. If you are going to have a shed I would think it would start within the first 5 months or so but I am not a doctor.
I feel like I went through several "cyclical" sheds while on finasteride, but they were never too bad. I don't worry about the hair in my shower as long as the hair on my head looks ok

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## 25 going on 65

> Hi, are you using actual avodart, dutas, dutagen, or some other generic? I'm toying with the idea of ordering some dutas and taking it with fin until I run out of fin.


 I use actual Avodart from a licensed pharmacy, about 400 dollars for 3 months supply. I understand the cost concerns but I am not willing to gamble with my hair in any way. If 130-140 dollars a month is the difference between NW2 and NW4+, it is worth it to me.
I am also taking it with fin for the first few months. I have no idea if this is wise or unwise and do not necessarliy recommend this to anybody else. I choose to do this in hopes of bridging the transition period between the drugs, so that (with luck) I can avoid serious shedding. Again I have no idea if this will work or what the risks are (I really am not worried about my health but others might not want to risk it). I will completely taper off fin within 6 months or less I think.

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## BigThinker

> I use actual Avodart from a licensed pharmacy, about 400 dollars for 3 months supply. I understand the cost concerns but I am not willing to gamble with my hair in any way. If 130-140 dollars a month is the difference between NW2 and NW4+, it is worth it to me.
> I am also taking it with fin for the first few months. I have no idea if this is wise or unwise and do not necessarliy recommend this to anybody else. I choose to do this in hopes of bridging the transition period between the drugs, so that (with luck) I can avoid serious shedding. Again I have no idea if this will work or what the risks are (I really am not worried about my health but others might not want to risk it). I will completely taper off fin within 6 months or less I think.


 Well, it sounds like you are treading into parts relatively unknown.  I hope you maintain your health, and wish you all the luck in this endeavor.  Your experience will undoubtedly be valuable for everyone.

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## Aames

> I use actual Avodart from a licensed pharmacy, about 400 dollars for 3 months supply. I understand the cost concerns but I am not willing to gamble with my hair in any way. If 130-140 dollars a month is the difference between NW2 and NW4+, it is worth it to me.
> I am also taking it with fin for the first few months. I have no idea if this is wise or unwise and do not necessarliy recommend this to anybody else. I choose to do this in hopes of bridging the transition period between the drugs, so that (with luck) I can avoid serious shedding. Again I have no idea if this will work or what the risks are (I really am not worried about my health but others might not want to risk it). I will completely taper off fin within 6 months or less I think.


 So you actually convinced a doctor to write you a script? I've heard a lot of people have problems with that. I'd love to use actual Avodart but online pharmacies are charging like 3.50 usd per pill which is just insane. Also, I have a theory that the brand name stuff is more likely to be faked. Who is going to go through the trouble of faking generics when they cost pennies to manufacture? It would be like selling a fake Timex watch.

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## 25 going on 65

> So you actually convinced a doctor to write you a script? I've heard a lot of people have problems with that. I'd love to use actual Avodart but online pharmacies are charging like 3.50 usd per pill which is just insane. Also, I have a theory that the brand name stuff is more likely to be faked. Who is going to go through the trouble of faking generics when they cost pennies to manufacture? It would be like selling a fake Timex watch.


 I have very little concern about a licensed pharmacy selling me fake Avodart but I guess anything is possible. I have heard that some counterfeit generics have been found in licensed pharmacies, including fin, but I never tried to research this myself. From my understanding the pharmacies were not necessarily in on the counterfeit, it was the manufacturers that were to blame.
There is no generic for dutasteride recognized in the US as far as I know. Maybe in other countries....I have no idea.
As far as getting a rx for Avodart, hair loss specialists are much easier to work with. At one time I tried getting a prescription from my GP and then a dermatologist, but neither one was comfortable writing it or even heard about dut for hair loss. Most doctors honestly do not know jack about alopecia
I think I had an especially easy time getting the rx because I have been on fin for years without suffering problems from it.

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## baldesswonder

> I have very little concern about a licensed pharmacy selling me fake Avodart but I guess anything is possible. I have heard that some counterfeit generics have been found in licensed pharmacies, including fin, but I never tried to research this myself. From my understanding the pharmacies were not necessarily in on the counterfeit, it was the manufacturers that were to blame.
> There is no generic for dutasteride recognized in the US as far as I know. Maybe in other countries....I have no idea.
> As far as getting a rx for Avodart, hair loss specialists are much easier to work with. At one time I tried getting a prescription from my GP and then a dermatologist, but neither one was comfortable writing it or even heard about dut for hair loss. Most doctors honestly do not know jack about alopecia
> I think I had an especially easy time getting the rx because I have been on fin for years without suffering problems from it.


 nothing wrong with getting a generic proscar/propecia online most of us are doing that.

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## 25 going on 65

I keep thinking I am imagining things but I cant help but share. I am not shedding at all. I can make no sense of it, it's much too early for dut to be doing anything (it has been less than a week). But since I started I notice maybe 4-6 hairs coming out the entire day, including when I shower. I have never been a "shed hair counter" but I always noticed hairs coming out while I was on fin. Nothing extreme, I just figured it was the normal hair cycling that would happen with or without MPB (for example I would see maybe 15-20 in the shower alone). But now it is like everything is glued to my scalp or something.
I feel this must be a coincidence because there is no way I have had dut in my system long enough to change my shedding. Does anyone else have any kind of experience like this to share?
(now watch, in 8 weeks I will shed out to a NW5)

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## Widowmaker

I started on Dut a bit before January 1.  Prior to that I was on Fin 1mg everyday for around 2 years.  I clipper my hair pretty short so I am not sure if I shed or not.  It seems I would go through periods of seeing more scalp, and periods of satisfaction.  That could just as well be attributed to psychological factors.  I am pretty sure Fin was just retaining what I had, but part of me would have liked to see a shed...from what I've seen, most people who see gains experience a shed.

Anyway, back to the Dut...I think I've had a rather minimal diffuse shed.  I see a bit more scalp, but it's not really noticable.  I have also noticed a lot more faint baby/vellus(?) hairs sprout up along my recessed temple hairline.  They aren't very noticable except up close.  Sorta reminds me of a hair graveyard.  I'm hopeful, but not convinced they will thicken up.  Didn't have sides on Fin and haven't noticed any on Dut.  I get my Dutas from InHouse.  I'll probably stay on Dut to see how it goes and if I see no gains I may go back to Fin.  I figure Fin was holding ground and it should be widely available as a generic (and a lot less $) by then.

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## drybone

I have to agree with 25/65 

I have been on fin for over two weeks, maybe 3 weeks and I got no side effects nor any shedding. 

The only thing I can think of is that I am still shedding at the same rate so I dont notice any shedding at all.  :Confused: 

According to what I have read, I have blocked out 90% of the DHT to my hair, but that wont show up in results for up to 12 months.

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## Aames

> I started on Dut a bit before January 1.  Prior to that I was on Fin 1mg everyday for around 2 years.  I clipper my hair pretty short so I am not sure if I shed or not.  It seems I would go through periods of seeing more scalp, and periods of satisfaction.  That could just as well be attributed to psychological factors.  I am pretty sure Fin was just retaining what I had, but part of me would have liked to see a shed...from what I've seen, most people who see gains experience a shed.
> 
> Anyway, back to the Dut...I think I've had a rather minimal diffuse shed.  I see a bit more scalp, but it's not really noticable.  I have also noticed a lot more faint baby/vellus(?) hairs sprout up along my recessed temple hairline.  They aren't very noticable except up close.  Sorta reminds me of a hair graveyard.  I'm hopeful, but not convinced they will thicken up.  Didn't have sides on Fin and haven't noticed any on Dut.  I get my Dutas from InHouse.  I'll probably stay on Dut to see how it goes and if I see no gains I may go back to Fin.  I figure Fin was holding ground and it should be widely available as a generic (and a lot less $) by then.


 My dutas from inhouse is in the post. I'll be taking it and fin at the same time until I run out of fin. I'm also hoping for temple regrowth.

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## 25 going on 65

Still practically no shedding on most days, except a few since I have started where there was minor shedding. When I used my keto shampoo the other day I noticed closer to the normal amount of hairs coming onto my hands in the shower. Most days though I can hang my head and vigorously rub my scalp and see 0, 1 or 2 hairs on the bathroom floor. Same when I wash my hair (other than keto days)
I assumed using dut+fin together would not be more effective than using just dut, I was just doing it for a transition period. Now I am getting a little nervous that when I drop fin I will start shedding more. I wonder what my actual DHT levels are vs what they will be when I quit fin. Maybe should get a blood test....

But it is still so early in the process that I probably am just overthinking things.

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## dex89

I'll be monitoring your thread, very curious how DUT works for you. I've been on Fin for 1 year and 5 months but I see no regrowth around the temple area that is thinning. I haven't shed like I used to but still worry that my hairline is receding to It's "mature hairline" slowly. I might make the switch soon, not sure if I should for 2 year mark.

I saw this really interesting link, I don't know if anyone has seen this. I posted it yesterday on another thread.  

http://www.twinshairloss.com/dutasteride.htm

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## drybone

Hey dex

Have you seen regrowth in the crown or top of your head with the fin? 

Is it just the temples where there is no regrowth?

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## dex89

> Hey dex
> 
> Have you seen regrowth in the crown or top of your head with the fin? 
> 
> Is it just the temples where there is no regrowth?


 I'm not loosing hair on the crown or top, It's more of a receding issue and a minor diffuse right temple. The temple is a no regrowth, the corner of my temples are thinning. Fin does work but it probably would not regrow hair around the hairline area like DUT would.

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## baldozer

> I'm not loosing hair on the crown or top, It's more of a receding issue and a minor diffuse right temple. The temple is a no regrowth, the corner of my temples are thinning. Fin does work but it probably would not regrow hair around the hairline area like DUT would.


 I have seen your pictures. You have almost no hair loss. You should really not be using dangerous drugs like finasteride for such negligible hair loss.

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## Aames

Check this post out: http://www.*****************/interact...read.php/48633

This is what inspired me to get on dut. Really hoping it works as well as it did for him. Just got it today, not sure when I'll start it.

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## drybone

> I'm not loosing hair on the crown or top, It's more of a receding issue and a minor diffuse right temple. The temple is a no regrowth, the corner of my temples are thinning. Fin does work but it probably would not regrow hair around the hairline area like DUT would.


 Wow. No wonder you have little hair loss. The fin is definitely working for you. Good job.

You say DUT actually regrows burnt out follicles at the temple area? What exactly is DUT ?

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## Aames

> Wow. No wonder you have little hair loss. The fin is definitely working for you. Good job.
> 
> You say DUT actually regrows burnt out follicles at the temple area? What exactly is DUT ?


 DUT=Dutasteride (Avodart)

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## drybone

> DUT=Dutasteride (Avodart)


 thanks. Ive been doing some reading on it and it appears to be some pretty heavy duty stuff.

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## Aames

> thanks. Ive been doing some reading on it and it appears to be some pretty heavy duty stuff.


 I guess so. If you look at the studies though, the incidences of side effects aren't all that different from fin.

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## chrisis

> I guess so. If you look at the studies though, the incidences of side effects aren't all that different from fin.


 Makes you wonder if the data is reliable....

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## Aames

> Makes you wonder if the data is reliable....


 Chrisis, while I really feel for you, I'm far more inclined to believe the results found by actual scientists than a band of anonymous faces on the internet that say fin/dut gave them persistent sides.

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## chrisis

> Chrisis, while I really feel for you, I'm far more inclined to believe the results found by actual scientists than a band of anonymous faces on the internet that say fin/dut gave them persistent sides.


 I'm more inclined to believe people who don't have any financial incentive to lie and present biased information. I _know_ because of my personal experience that there are very really dangers - you're taking drugs that interfere with hormone interactions which nobody fully understands - not even "actual scientists".

"Drugs are tested by the people who manufacture them, in poorly designed trials, on hopelessly small numbers of weird, unrepresentative patients, and analysed using techniques which are flawed by design, in such a way that they exaggerate the benefits of treatments. Unsurprisingly, these trials tend to produce results that favour the manufacturer. When trials throw up results that companies don't like, they are perfectly entitled to hide them from doctors and patients, so we only ever see a distorted picture of any drug's true effects. Regulators see most of the trial data, but only from early on in a drug's life, and even then they don't give this data to doctors or patients, or even to other parts of government. This distorted evidence is then communicated and applied in a distorted fashion. In their forty years of practice after leaving medical school, doctors hear about what works through ad hoc oral traditions, from sales reps, colleagues or journals. But those colleagues can be in the pay of drug companies – often undisclosed – and the journals are too. And so are the patient groups. And finally, academic papers, which everyone thinks of as objective, are often covertly planned and written by people who work directly for the companies, without disclosure. Sometimes whole academic journals are even owned outright by one drug company. Aside from all this, for several of the most important and enduring problems in medicine, we have no idea what the best treatment is, because it's not in anyone's financial interest to conduct any trials at all. These are ongoing problems, and although people have claimed to fix many of them, for the most part they have failed; so all these problems persist, but worse than ever, because now people can pretend that everything is fine after all."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Pharma

See that bit about "unrepresentative patients"? I've asked time and time again for a study showing how safe Propecia is for men of a young age or with less advanced balding. I have yet to see anything that satisfies that basic question.

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## BigThinker

"Actual scientists" aside, I still think the anecdotal evidence from pro-fin people vastly outweighs that of the anti-fin people. Not taking fin, going bald, and looking back wondering "what if" would be more painful than sides.

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## chrisis

> "Actual scientists" aside, I still think the anecdotal evidence from pro-fin people vastly outweighs that of the anti-fin people. Not taking fin, going bald, and looking back wondering "what if" would be more painful than sides.


 We don't have any numbers for how many men have sides. Men are *notorious*  for not seeking medical help or talking about personal issues. I'm quite open and it took me almost a year to seek help.

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## clandestine

> Not taking fin, going bald, and looking back wondering "what if" would be more painful than sides.


 This is the dominant mode of thought by most. Interestingly (and unfortunately) once sides are experienced, a dramatic shift in paradigm occurs; people often regretting ever having taken fin in the first place.

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## chrisis

> This is the dominant mode of thought by most. Interestingly (and unfortunately) once sides are experienced, a dramatic shift in paradigm occurs; people often regretting ever having taken fin in the first place.


 All kinds of excuses are put out there as to why the sides might be psychological in nature. This an important topic and it's treated with the due diligence of topics we find middle aged men discussing in a bar. 

I hear time and time again that men who worry they'll suffer sides will most likely suffer them. What is this based on? Plucked from the ether, apparently! 

I want to make it quite clear that I was confident this drug wouldn't give me sides. I actually even dismissed any sides I did notice, until they were so evident that I couldn't deny it any longer. I believe most men are very in tune with their sexual health, and have a good idea if something has dramatically changed biologically; something separate from the mind. But dismissing sides as "in the head" is a soothing comfort for those who have been lucky enough to avoid them.

If I had avoided sides, maybe I'd be dismissing them too - such is the emotional connection when it comes to keeping our hair and the biases we are subject to.

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## dex89

> Chrisis, while I really feel for you, I'm far more inclined to believe the results found by actual scientists than a band of anonymous faces on the internet that say fin/dut gave them persistent sides.


 Aames, where do you purchase your DUT?

Seeing that link you posted motivated me to make a switch. I understand this drug might be more potent then FIN and the sides are higher but I'm pretty sure I won't be affected.

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## Aames

> Aames, where do you purchase your DUT?
> 
> Seeing that link you posted motivated me to make a switch. I understand this drug might be more potent then FIN and the sides are higher but I'm pretty sure I won't be affected.


 I got Dr Reddy's Dutas from inhouse. Check my duta log in about a month. I'm going to get a blood test to confirm it's legit. If it isn't, which I highly doubt, I'll seek an actual prescription despite the ridiculous cost.

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## dex89

> I got Dr Reddy's Dutas from inhouse. Check my duta log in about a month. I'm going to get a blood test to confirm it's legit. If it isn't, which I highly doubt, I'll seek an actual prescription despite the ridiculous cost.


 Thanks for the reply,

Your taking the same stuff his guy has been on (http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...VIEWTMP=Linear)

Seems legit.

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## drybone

> "Actual scientists" aside, I still think the anecdotal evidence from pro-fin people vastly outweighs that of the anti-fin people. Not taking fin, going bald, and looking back wondering "what if" would be more painful than sides.


 This 

To add to it, the fin sides are mild compared to the dut is a more powerful kind of DHT blocker. 

I havent had any sides on the fin, but I am going to talk to several doctors about upping it to dutasteride and the pros/cons. 

The main goal is to keep my hair. Its a lot easier to keep it than to transplant it.

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## drybone

> This is the dominant mode of thought by most. Interestingly (and unfortunately) once sides are experienced, a dramatic shift in paradigm occurs; *people often regretting ever having taken fin* in the first place.


 This is horsecrap and spreading lies. Less than 4% of people even experience noticeable side effects so saying 'people often' is an outright lie.

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## chrisis

> This is horsecrap and spreading lies. Less than 4% of people even experience noticeable side effects so saying 'people often' is an outright lie.


 4% based on a few studies with methodical flaws and conducted/supported by drugs companies with a financial incentive and track record for lying/hiding inconvenient data.

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## Aames

> 4% based on a few studies with methodical flaws and conducted/supported by drugs companies with a financial incentive and track record for lying/hiding inconvenient data.


 Millions of men have used fin. I'm guessing that most of the people with persistent sides eventually find their way to propeciahelp, which has around 2k members IIRC. What does that tell you?

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## chrisis

> Millions of men have used fin. I'm guessing that most of the people with persistent sides eventually find their way to propeciahelp, which has around 2k members IIRC. What does that tell you?


 Actually 2671 which for the sake of your argument would be 15&#37; of the membership of Bald Truth Talk, for example. If 15% of men have an issue taking this drug, we have a problem.

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## Aames

> Actually 2671 which for the sake of your argument would be 15% of the membership of Bald Truth Talk, for example. If 15% of men have an issue taking this drug, we have a problem.


 This argument will never end. Our biases are too great to overcome. You were greatly affected by fin's side effects and want to warn others. I try to forget about them because I desperately want to save my hair. Merck has added persistent side effects to the label now, it's all on whether or not the individual wants to roll the dice.

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## drybone

> Actually 2671 which for the sake of your argument would be 15% of the membership of Bald Truth Talk, for example. If 15% of men have an issue taking this drug, we have a problem.


 85% of men having no issues with the drug is a huge success. Its well higher than that, but even by your own standards the fact is the 15% can stop taking the medicine if they experience these side effects you are so hell bent on ranting about over and over like EVERYONE gets them. 

I am certain 10% of people who take ASPIRIN get side effects. The warning is right on the label of the bottle. 

I dont see huge million man marches trying to stop the evil makers of Aspirin. 

Why do you have to TROLL this place like you are some authority to speak for all men. You aint. 

If you had issues with Finasteride then it sucks to be you. For the other 96% of us.............oh Im sorry, 85% of us, let us use it in peace and trying to rain on our parade.

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## chrisis

Hi drybone,

To summarise, since joining a year ago, my posts pretty much work like this:
learning about hair loss solutions
describing my use of finasteride and minoxidil, both widely promoted by BTT
describing post finasteride problems, quitting the drug and advocating caution to others
my decision making process about hair surgery, 

This is my 1000+ genuine and honest experience, as a 28/29 year old guy, going through hair loss and looking for answers. I'm not some anti-Propecia whacko, using the forum to further some non-disclosed interest I have (which would be what exactly? Is there money in advocating ethical safety with drugs?) If any of my posts have been interpreted as "trolling", then I think you either don't understand the word or are using it provocatively because you disagree with me. 

Another false assumption - I have never advocated the banning of this drug. I have suggested Merck might pull it, but that's a genuine opinion based on falling sales and rising expenses associated with litigation. I want men to be properly and fairly informed, which often they are not. I listened to two BTT talk shows recently, and the amount of air time used to defend the drug concerned me. What I think we need is men to do thorough research and doctors/drug companies/hair loss consultants to take side effects more seriously, rather than dismissing them with half baked theories about psychology. This is after all, a real drug that interacts with the male hormonal system in ways we do not fully understand. I've yet to read or hear anything on this website about ways this community is acknowledging and supporting sufferers in meaningful ways. We're just quickly dismissed and then the conversation moves on to Histogen or Dr Gho. 

I don't claim that the figure is 15&#37;. I don't know what the figure is; nobody does and I'd be wary of of those that claim to know. My point was that if we're going by membership of forums to indicate how serious this problem is, then the number on Propeciahelp.com is comparatively high. 

We don't know how many men are suffering from Propecia side effects. The membership of forums is no indication, neither is the amount of traffic/posts dedicated to these topics on forums such as this. Men tend not to talk openly about medical problems, especially of a sexual nature. Of the millions said to be taking this drug, we cannot draw any conclusions about how many have experienced any adverse reaction. It's entirely unknown.

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## chrisis

> 1000+


 I meant 1000+ posts!

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## 25 going on 65

My scalp seems to be producing much less oil. I am not sure how to express that in medical/scientific terms but my hair seems not to get nearly as much of a "greasy" texture in between washes.
Shedding is mild on some days, almost nonexistent other days. Definitely less shedding than when I was on fin so far. This must be temporary since the body needs to shed x amount of hairs over time as the follicles go through their natural phases, but in a way it feels reassuring to shed so little

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## WarLord

> 4% based on a few studies with methodical flaws and conducted/supported by drugs companies with a financial incentive and track record for lying/hiding inconvenient data.


 Finasteride does nothing bad. DHT is a useless hormone and the change in testosterone levels is so minute that you won't notice it.

It's only you, hysterical hypochondriacs, who spread all the bullsh*t in the internet. It is quite obvious that some of you even don't read leaflets carefully, and get a puffy face on finasteride and impotence on minoxidil. LOL You are clowns.

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## baldozer

> DHT is a useless hormone


 Really? And by the way, Finasteride doesn't stop DHT, it actually inhibits 5 alpha reductase which combines with Testosterone to produce DHT. So it does inhibit DHT, but not directly. 5 alpha reductase is an important enzyme in the body, which does more than just make DHT. And DHT is not useless either. Useless for girls, gays and transgenders, but not men.

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## WarLord

> Really?


 Oh, no. Of course. It will make you bald, it will enlarge your prostate, it will cause prostate cancer, it will contribute to dermatological problems (from acne to dermatitis) - and all other joys, without which a true man can't live.

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## El Nino

> Oh, no. Of course. It will make you bald, it will enlarge your prostate, it will cause prostate cancer, it will contribute to dermatological problems (from acne to dermatitis) - and all other joys, without which a true man can't live.


 Do you know that some Doctors prescribe Finasteride for Transgenders who want the full surgery to become a WOMAN?

It makes sense because they wouldn't mind being chemically castrated (they're going to be chopped anyway), grow breasts, lose muscle and have a more feminine body.

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## 25 going on 65

Wow....just had my first big shed since starting dut. Took a shower and saw 50-60+ hairs come out. Including the ones I did not see, who knows how many I lost. Maybe part of it is I had not washed my hair since the day before yesterday, and today was also a keto day, but wow. After a month straight of seeing no more than 15 hairs come out (many days I would see something like only 2-5), this one was a little shocking. Hope it is not a sign of things to come!!

On an unrelated note.....chrisis is not a hypochondriac or a clown, he is a good guy dealing with a very long recovery from fin sides. He and I have very different views of things like fin, but he is very open about his experiences on meds and with surgery, more so than 90&#37; of people on this forum. I respect that.
Be decent to each other, we are all here for the same basic reasons

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## Aames

> Wow....just had my first big shed since starting dut. Took a shower and saw 50-60+ hairs come out. Including the ones I did not see, who knows how many I lost. Maybe part of it is I had not washed my hair since the day before yesterday, and today was also a keto day, but wow. After a month straight of seeing no more than 15 hairs come out (many days I would see something like only 2-5), this one was a little shocking. Hope it is not a sign of things to come!!
> 
> On an unrelated note.....chrisis is not a hypochondriac or a clown, he is a good guy dealing with a very long recovery from fin sides. He and I have very different views of things like fin, but he is very open about his experiences on meds and with surgery, more so than 90% of people on this forum. I respect that.
> Be decent to each other, we are all here for the same basic reasons


 I'm sorry to hear about your shed. I would probably have a panic attack if I were to lose that many hairs at once. My shedding is up and down. Some days I seem to be able to tug on my hair all I want without losing much, if any. Other days, I notice a fair amount of shedding when applying minox. Never over 10 hairs, though. God, that would freak me out.

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## WarLord

> Do you know that some Doctors prescribe Finasteride for Transgenders who want the full surgery to become a WOMAN?
> 
> It makes sense because they wouldn't mind being chemically castrated (they're going to be chopped anyway), grow breasts, lose muscle and have a more feminine body.


 A good educational thread:
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...ighlight_key=y

You are all borderline psychotic hypochondriacs. I am curious, what "side effects" you make up this year. What about the mad cow disease? It is a nice side effect, what do you think?

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## WarLord

> Wow....just had my first big shed since starting dut. Took a shower and saw 50-60+ hairs come out. Including the ones I did not see, who knows how many I lost. Maybe part of it is I had not washed my hair since the day before yesterday, and today was also a keto day, but wow. After a month straight of seeing no more than 15 hairs come out (many days I would see something like only 2-5), this one was a little shocking. Hope it is not a sign of things to come!!
> 
> On an unrelated note.....chrisis is not a hypochondriac or a clown, he is a good guy dealing with a very long recovery from fin sides. He and I have very different views of things like fin, but he is very open about his experiences on meds and with surgery, more so than 90% of people on this forum. I respect that.
> Be decent to each other, we are all here for the same basic reasons


 Oh, the good ole counting hairs in the shower again! You should realize that the number of hairs in the shower doesn't matter. What matters is the hair on your head. If I counted my hair every day, I would have to conclude that I have been balding since the age of 12!

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## WarLord

I have been using dutasteride for 4,5 weeks, by the way. But only two pills a week, in addition to my finasteride regime. In any case, I would recommend to start very slowly, because the reports mentioning shedding are quite frequent. On the other hand, you shouldn't be paranoid and count hairs every day.

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## dex89

Have you gotten any major sides?

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## 25 going on 65

> I have been using dutasteride for 4,5 weeks, by the way. But only two pills a week, in addition to my finasteride regime. In any case, I would recommend to start very slowly, because the reports mentioning shedding are quite frequent. On the other hand, you shouldn't be paranoid and count hairs every day.


 Yeah I have never really been a shed hair counter. I just happen to notice when a lot of hairs come out in the shower because during a typical wash I see so few. In general, as long as the hair on my head looks fine, the hair in my drain is no problem

Since that day my visible shed hairs dropped back down to normal. I guess it was just a lucky evening.  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## 25 going on 65

> Have you gotten any major sides?


 It has been less than 6 weeks so these are early days, but I see no significant changes as far as sides are concerned. I feel like my libido has risen a bit....but that is not necessarily because of dut. Also this is more than you want to know, but "ejaculatory volume" has increased whereas when I started fin I believe it decreased a little. No idea if it is drug related or down to other factors?
One thing to keep in mind, I am still on fin (down to 1.25 mg daily from 2.5), which could be muddying the effects of dut. My plan is to taper off fin during the next few months

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## dex89

> It has been less than 6 weeks so these are early days, but I see no significant changes as far as sides are concerned. I feel like my libido has risen a bit....but that is not necessarily because of dut. Also this is more than you want to know, but "ejaculatory volume" has increased whereas when I started fin I believe it decreased a little. No idea if it is drug related or down to other factors?
> One thing to keep in mind, I am still on fin (down to 1.25 mg daily from 2.5), which could be muddying the effects of dut. My plan is to taper off fin during the next few months


 I see, thanks for the response. Have you had any major sheds lately?

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## 25 going on 65

> I see, thanks for the response. Have you had any major sheds lately?


 Just that one recent day when I saw 50-60 or more come out in the shower. Otherwise shedding has been minimal since starting dut.
My whole reason for tapering off fin slowly while starting dut was the hope of minimizing the initial shed. I thought maybe fin could help bridge the process....no idea if it has any chance of working, but I saw no harm in trying.

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## 25 going on 65

Update time at almost 4.5 months.

The biggest thing that encouraged me to write this was that my right temple is expanding. There are hairs growing beyond the temple line that were definitely not there before, and not the worthless blond vellus kind that I have in my hairline corners. However these hairs are not that thick nor are there many of them. Cosmetically they are not really viable at this point....I still comb my hair forward in that region to conceal
This may also be happening on the left side, but if so it is less obvious (however my left side was stronger to begin with)

As I mentioned already I have a ton of midget blond vellus hairs all the way up to nearly my juvenile hairline. Cosmetically they are worth nothing, they might as well not be there IMO

I feel my hairline corners have taken a bit of a hit in density, especially on one side. Nothing drastic but there is precious little room for error when styling at this time. The hairs that remain there seem thick, so I am hoping whatever has shed will come back stronger (or equally strong at least!)

My crown seems the same. It was not bad to begin with, 2.5+ years of fin and keto did a good job in that region. However I would ideally like it to fill in a bit more because it is still dependent on styling to look normal.

My mid scalp (on top) is the one area I am quite happy about right now vs baseline. It feels thicker than when I started dut. This does give me an extra dimension in my limited styling options, however the disparity in density between it and other scalp areas is annoying

I do not notice sides. Early on I noticed a few things that might or might not have been related to dut: dryer skin, higher libido, maybe something else I forgot. My skin seems better now, but I am drinking major amounts of water so this might have something to do with it. Libido seems around the same I guess....maybe less lately because I have been stressed. Also I have been kind of depressed although it has gotten better the last couple days.

I still take .5mg Avodart every day, 1.25mg fin every day, and use 2&#37; keto shampoo every 3 days. That is basically my whole regimen.

Edit: When I look up close I feel my temples might have taken a slight hit in density like my hairline corners. Strange because the actual temple line is starting to advance, at least on one side, but behind that there might have been a bit of diffuse shedding.
Annoying. I do not like the thought of losing any more of the frame around my face, I am already handcrafting it as is..

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## baldymcgee

For those for whom fin doesn't work (like me), does that mean that we are still getting lots of DHT from type I 5AR?

I mean, fin blocks out most of the DHT from the type II stuff so does it follow that dut would be really effective when fin isn't?

Or is there another source of DHT or another cause of patterned hairloss unrelated to DHT?

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## 25 going on 65

> For those for whom fin doesn't work (like me), does that mean that we are still getting lots of DHT from type I 5AR?
> 
> I mean, fin blocks out most of the DHT from the type II stuff so does it follow that dut would be really effective when fin isn't?
> 
> Or is there another source of DHT or another cause of patterned hairloss unrelated to DHT?


 Hair loss can come from other causes but the vast majority of men who experience hair loss just have MPB.

It is not clear to me if inhibiting type 1 5-ar actually has any purpose in fighting MPB. I believe Spex once said Merck ran trials on a drug that exclusively blocked type I, and it apparently had no effect on MPB. (However I think they were testing it for acne or something else unrelated to hair)

Either way dut blocks more type II 5-ar than fin, so even if it blocked 0% of 5-ar type 1, it would still theoretically be stronger than fin for MPB. It is also more dose dependent....there is not much difference in taking 1 mg fin vs. 5 mg fin for hair. However there is a definite difference between different dut doses

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