# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments >  Anyone who had eliminated side effects of finasteride with lower dose

## chrisis

Title pretty much sums up this topic. I always do a lot of research before posting a question, but I'd like some more feedback on this if possible.

Are there any guys who have experienced side effects on the recommended dosage of finasteride (1mg-1.25mg), and then successfully eliminated them with a lower dose?

If so:

1) What was your new dose? 
2) What did you notice in terms of your hair?
3) Did the side effects go away completely? Or is it a compromise?

My story:

Started taking finasteride in November.
Side effects hit me in February: fewer erections, less volume and thinner consistency of semen, lower libido/interest in sex.
Stopped taking finasteride this week and waiting for my libido to return before considering my options. I am still applying minoxidil and using Nizoral shampoo, as I assume they aren't responsible for the sides.

Thanks  :Smile: 

P.S. I don't really want a debate on whether finasteride causes side effects or not! I've heard both sides of the argument and I'm simply interested in a solution to my situation  :Smile:

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## 25 going on 65

The risk of finasteride side effects does seem to correlate, at least to some extent, with dosage. The rates of side effects for 5 mg users are significantly higher than for 1 mg users. This is especially true for loss of libido (which is something like 2-3% for 1 mg users but 18+ % for 5 mg users).

It would probably be worth experimenting with lower doses if 1 mg side effects are intolerable. Maybe try 1/2, and if that doesn't help, maybe 1/3 or 1/4. But at a certain point there will be almost no positive effect from the drug; 0.1 mg seems to do virtually nothing for DHT inhibition when you look at blood tests.

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## chrisis

Thanks. Going from the studies and charts I think 0.25mg would be an acceptable compromise. Waiting for my libido to come back first before I touch it again though. It's actually scared me a bit  :Frown: 

It's been 2-3 days. I guess it could take a few weeks.

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## 25 going on 65

Definitely see a doctor if your libido doesn't return to normal (but I'm sure you know that already).

If you start taking the drug again at lower doses, maybe consider having your DHT levels tested before you start, and then every so often after that. This will help give you an idea of how much DHT is being suppressed and whether it's worth continuing.

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## mattj

2-3 days isn't that long after stopping so it's not a bad sign that the side effects haven't improved yet.

The actual length of time it takes can vary - much like the time it takes for them to appear. Many users who experience side effects notice them much sooner than you did. Some users report that the side effects improved in a week while for others it can take longer.

I'm saying this so you don't go and read a post from someone was back to normal in a week and then worry when you aren't.

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## willy

My story:

I've been taking 1 - 1.25 mg per day since 1998. I'm 34 now. Over the years I've had no problems sexually besides a slight lower libido, watery semen and things like no morning wood. I honestly didn't care because I could rise to the occasion easily and to me that wasn't a problem. Sometimes I took supplements to increase libido and that seemed to help actually. You can get lots of natural supplements online. I won't post any name brands cuz I'm not a shill.

I did start to have depression / anxiety problems over the last several years and lately its been particularly bad. Just problems focusing and concentrating. I just rolled with it and didn't let it bother me but now I'm sick of feeling spaced out. Sometimes I would feel fine but other times just totally out of it. I live a healthy lifestyle with eating and exercising but I still would get the foggy feeling. I've taken anti-depressants that didn't really help but I noticed that taking clonazepam really helped clear my head though.

I'm hoping to lower my fin dose but I might just quit altogether as I'd rather be able to think straight. I don't know if fin is to blame for my psychological state but perhaps over the long-term it has played a role.

My plan is to quit for a while (probably lose hair  :Frown: ..) and attempt a natural regimen. Once my head is straight I will probably start fin at a lower dose. 

I think you can gauge the level of how much fin is affecting you by whether you have morning wood or not.

I don't like the idea of being off fin because I think it has really helped my hair over the years! So hopefully I can get a lower dose that works for me.

I'm also NOT yet convinced that my mental state is from fin because:

1. All my docs including psychiatrist have said it wouldn't give me depression/anxiety
2. I have friends on it and are fine 
3. I have depression / anxiety in my family

Anyway I'll be checking to see if you find a good dosage. I read that .2mg every 3 days is pretty good.

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## 2020

since 1998??? Fin has maintained your hair for 14 years?

You should do some tests to see what could be causing those side effects... It might be Propecia but it might be not!

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## willy

But my anxiety is bad and it's becoming more important than my hair :Frown:  fml

Anyway, the good news is I found some pics I took on exactly Feb 2, 2002 and just took one right now for comparison. Again, I started Propecia close to when it came out in 1998. The GP hadn't even heard of it when I went to the clinic.

Over the years I've taken nothing but fin (1mg then later 1.25mg). In the last 5 years I've been using a Ginger Scalp shampoo with Piroctine olamine in it that I honestly think has done wonders for my hair. I used to be paranoid about my hair until I starting using that shampoo.

I tried minox for about 3 months in 2004 but hated it so I stopped. 

Before and after shots. (white shirt is 2002, grey is today)

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## 2020

wow you barely lost any hair between 2002 and 2012  :EEK!: 

Can you imagine what would happen if you stop using it?

Go see a doctor about those side effects! It could be a thyroid problem which in some cases CAN be triggered by Propecia!

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## jayth

Hey Chrisis I know what you mean. When you ask a simple question around here you get bombarded with everything but a simple answer to you question. Oh well. I just started Fin last week and am hoping for the best. If I have the sides that everyone speaks of I will stop taking it. Let me know if a smaller dose decreases your side effects. Good luck.

PS: it seems to me that a lot more than 2% of men get side effects from Fin. Let the smart-ass useless comments begin!!

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## ryan555

Willy -

Please take my advice and be VERY careful with the clonazepam.  It is the hellish withdrawal from that drug and the resultant neurological damage that forced me to quit taking fin and all other meds.  It has been over two years since I stopped and I am still not well.  Trust me, benzodiazepine withdrawal is far more hellish than any side effect fin could ever cause.

2020 - 

I was on fin for 14 years and maintained ALL of my hair, even regrew my juvenile hairline.  I stopped almost two years ago and the hairline has been slowly creeping up.

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## 2020

> Hey Chrisis I know what you mean. When you ask a simple question around here you get bombarded with everything but a simple answer to you question.


 Dude I gave him advice - go see a doctor. Don't expect your side effects to go away once you discontinue Propecia because those "side effects" may not even be from Propecia!




> PS: it seems to me that a lot more than 2% of men get side effects from Fin. Let the smart-ass useless comments begin!!


 it seems?? Of course it SEEMS that way because only those who DO get side effects post on the Internet... that's just how it is.

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## 25 going on 65

Just to correct something I wrote in this thread, the rate of reduced libido for 5 mg finasteride users was actually 10%. The 18% (18.5 to be exact) was for impotence.
But, I also see that all participants in the 5 mg study were over 55 years old (compared to the study for 1 mg finasteride, which used men 18-41), so at least part of the higher rate of impotence was for that reason. In fact 12.2% of the control group (taking only placebo) in the 5 mg study also reported impotence.

That does still suggests 5.3% of cases resulted from finasteride, compared to less than 1% who experienced E.D. in 1 mg trials (using the same formula of subtracting the control group from the finasteride group). So there is still definitely correlation between dosage and the rate of (at least some) side effects.

Hopefully that all makes sense to somebody besides myself.

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## 2020

> Just to correct something I wrote in this thread, the rate of reduced libido for 5 mg finasteride users was actually 10%. The 18% (18.5 to be exact) was for impotence.
> But, I also see that all participants in the 5 mg study were over 55 years old (compared to the study for 1 mg finasteride, which used men 18-41), so at least part of the higher rate of impotence was for that reason. In fact 12.2% of the control group (taking only placebo) in the 5 mg study also reported impotence.
> 
> That does still suggests 5.3% of cases resulted from finasteride, compared to less than 1% who experienced E.D. in 1 mg trials (using the same formula of subtracting the control group from the finasteride group). So there is still definitely correlation between dosage and the rate of (at least some) side effects.
> 
> Hopefully that all makes sense to somebody besides myself.


 which study was that? Post the link

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## 25 going on 65

The results I posted were for the MTOPS study.  I'm now noticing that other 5 mg studies are showing much lower rates of side effects and I'm not sure why (maybe has to do with the patient samples used). 

http://www.drugs.com/pro/proscar.html

The PLESS study shows no difference between the control and finasteride groups RE: impotence (and some other sides) after year 1. Hmm.

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## 2020

> The results I posted were for the MTOPS study.  I'm now noticing that other 5 mg studies are showing much lower rates of side effects and I'm not sure why (maybe has to do with the patient samples used). 
> 
> http://www.drugs.com/pro/proscar.html
> 
> The PLESS study shows no difference between the control and finasteride groups RE: impotence (and some other sides) after year 1. Hmm.


 It also shows that people on placebo got the same side effects at almost the same rate as people on Propecia....

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## 25 going on 65

Yeah that's what I meant. After year 1 the rates get very similar (even identical for some sides) in the PLESS study.

Just to be clear, these studies are for 5 mg finasteride tablets (Proscar) and not 1 mg Propecia tablets.

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## chrisis

How does someone who has suffered side effects interpret this study? I assume it means they may as well have been given sugar pills and the probability of having side effects would have been virtually the same.

Correct?

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## 25 going on 65

The study indicates that in years 2-4, the rate of side effects between the control and finasteride groups became extremely similar (not quite equal).
I haven't read the complete study, so there are probably factors we're not considering. 
This doesn't mean that your sides were unrelated to finasteride or that they were psychosomatic. But it does seem to suggest that they have a high chance of resolving themselves if you continue on the medication. (Consider the side effect rates of year 1 vs. years 2-4 in that study).

That said, I don't see anything wrong with lowering your dose for the short term and seeing how you feel.

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## chrisis

I'm not sure we know enough about these studies.

What if the people who took the finasteride and experienced lower libido withdrew from the study? That would lower the % after 2 year. Heck, some may have withdrawn before the first year. 

Not trolling. Serious questions...  :Confused:

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## 25 going on 65

The full study should mention any participants it lost track of before the 4-year mark. I would read it myself but I'm being a lazy bastard.

But you're right, the full text will have relevant details we can't see from the table.

And we know you aren't trolling. Believe me, the last couple weeks have given us a heavy dose of what actual forum trolling looks like.  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## superdudeo

Hi.

I also started in November like chrisis and noticed lack of libido almost straight away but have persisted to see if they subside. Unfortunately they haven't and I think I will stop taking it now. 

How long do you think you should persevere for before calling it a day?

Thanks

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## 25 going on 65

> Hi.
> 
> I also started in November like chrisis and noticed lack of libido almost straight away but have persisted to see if they subside. Unfortunately they haven't and I think I will stop taking it now. 
> 
> How long do you think you should persevere for before calling it a day?
> 
> Thanks


 According to the PLESS study we were discussing, it seems that the rate of side effects drops to near-placebo levels during the second year. I don't know how long between the end of year 1 and the end of year 2 it would take.
There is a chance that you will have side effects for as long as you take the drug, and there is also a chance that the sides may resolve before the end of year 1. Everyone is different. In the end, the choice to quit or continue the drug is up to you.
You might consider speaking to a doctor about your decreased libido in the meantime. Good luck.

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## superdudeo

Thanks for the prompt reply. 

If I gamble on waiting a year to see if they subside could this damage me more in the long term if they don't subside?

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## 25 going on 65

You're welcome.
There's no scientific evidence concluding that finasteride causes any kind of irreversible damage. 
There is evidence that a small percentage of men take months to recover from side effects after quitting (although this study was performed on older men using 5 mg tablets instead of 1 mg). Some of them had not recovered at the six month mark (although this was true of some men in the placebo group also).
There are anecdotal reports of side effects lasting many years for an extreme minority of past users (after quitting), but there's no way to tell if finasteride caused this. I'm guessing it will be studied more over time. 

Almost nothing is 100% certain with pharmaceuticals, but the answer to your question is most likely, "no."

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## StressedToTheBald

> Thanks for the prompt reply. 
> 
> If I gamble on waiting a year to see if they subside could this damage me more in the long term if they don't subside?


 Its a gamble I wouldn't recommend. If You have side effects, stop now and don't play with Your health any more. Both Boston & Washington study, Dr. Traish and Dr. Irwig report that propecia may cause permanent erectile dysfunction and much more - also including high grade prostate cancer.. if permanent ED happens, Dr. Traish relates it with the fact that propecia can change 5-alpha reductase in the brain, and this impact may be permanent - no cure is available ! I'd never gamble with that, its one of the reasons why I never started propecia treatment. Its a hazardous drug that will either get banned or risks and warnings will be upgraded to extreme health hazard level, in order to reflect the reality and latest findings about this drug.

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## 2020

> Its a gamble I wouldn't recommend. If You have side effects, stop now and don't play with Your health any more. Both Boston & Washington study, Dr. Traish and Dr. Irwig report that propecia may cause permanent erectile dysfunction and much more - also including high grade prostate cancer.. if permanent ED happens, Dr. Traish relates it with the fact that propecia can change 5-alpha reductase in the brain, and this impact may be permanent - no cure is available ! I'd never gamble with that, its one of the reasons why I never started propecia treatment. Its a hazardous drug that will either get banned or risks and warnings will be upgraded to extreme health hazard level, in order to reflect the reality and latest findings about this drug.


 Don't listen to him!!!!! He's a well known troll here

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## 25 going on 65

superdudeo,

Please don't allow StressedToTheBald's fear mongering to worry you. The studies he's referencing are not controlled scientific studies. He has been spamming the forum for weeks with hysterical posts about finasteride, which he has never used.

Anyway, feel free to ask any further questions you may think of.

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## chrisis

superdudeo, so I'm in the same boat as you exactly! I withdrew nearly a week ago, and I'm waiting for normality. 

I wouldn't recommend staying on the drug if you've had side effects.

And I wouldn't recommend listening to people who haven't had symptoms who basically suggest it's psychological or psychosomatic.

There are enough of us on these forums to suggest otherwise.

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## 2020

> There are enough of us on these forums to suggest otherwise.


 yes but do you know how POPULAR finasteride is??? BRAND NAME PROPECIA alone makes about $400 million a year... god knows how many millions are made from generics.

Millions of people use this drug every day and for the most part they stay quiet about their success. A couple people on this forum don't mean jack amongst millions

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## chrisis

> A couple people on this forum don't mean jack amongst millions


 You betray your bias right here. Enough men have experienced side effects to convince this legal firm to publish a pamphlet about it:

http://www.ihlaw.com/content/propecia-lawsuits-0

It's great you've not (yet?) had any side effects (that you've at least noticed), but stop letting your personal experience cloud your ability to think rationally and misinform men who you may inadvertently harm.

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## 2020

google these:

Lipitor lawsuit
Advair lawsuit
Viagra lawsuit
.......

every drug is being sued!!

here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bestselling_drugs

try to find a drug without any ongoing lawsuits and active forums where people claim that their lifes were ruined by that drug....

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## StressedToTheBald

> You betray your bias right here. Enough men have experienced side effects to convince this legal firm to publish a pamphlet about it:
> 
> http://www.ihlaw.com/content/propecia-lawsuits-0
> 
> It's great you've not (yet?) had any side effects (that you've at least noticed), but stop letting your personal experience cloud your ability to think rationally and misinform men who you may inadvertently harm.


 And its not the only one. 
Here is an excellent article :

http://injurylawsuitnews.com/2012/02...st-a-lifetime/

*Propecia Sexual Side Effects Can Last a Lifetime*
February 13th, 2012 | Posted in Propecia Lawsuits

A number of patients have been filing Propecia lawsuits after discovering side effects associated with the hair loss drug. These patients have chosen to contact a Propecia lawyer after experiencing long-lasting side effects such as Propecia erectile dysfunction and other sexual side effects associated with the hair loss drug.

*Propecia linked to permanent conditions*
Propecia, or finasteride, was introduced to the United States’ pharmaceutical market in 1992 as a prostate drug, but was later approved by the Food and Drug Administration for use in the treatment of male pattern baldness. As use of the medication became more widespread, more and more men began reporting side effects, including Propecia sexual side effects like erectile dysfunction, loss of libido, testicular pain, impaired sexual sensation, and decreased semen output. These conditions can not only have a profound effect on the self esteem of a patient but can also be permanent in many men.

A number of studies have shown a definitive link between Propecia and sexual side effects, and some studies have indicated that almost *40 percent* of men could experience Propecia sexual *side effects* while taking the medication. A 2003 study showed that about *half* of men who develop *sexual side effects* associated with Propecia will *continue to suffer* from them long after they discontinue use of the medication.

*Permanent side effects lead to Propecia lawsuits*
A number of men have taken steps towards filing Propecia lawsuits, and now drug maker Merck finds itself at the center of a number of plaintiffs seeking compensation for their drug-related side effects. One Propecia lawsuit was brought in 2011 by an Ohio man who began experiencing Propecia side effects after taking the medication in 2001. Paul Richmond, according to the lawsuit filed by his Propecia lawyer, not only experienced sexual side effects but also cognitive impairment and depression, two side effects that have also been linked to Propecia.
Another lawsuit was brought by plaintiff Michael Zocchi, who claims that Merck did not adequately warn patients about the risk of developing erectile dysfunction and other long-lasting conditions.
It is still unclear how many Propecia lawsuits have resulted in settlements from Merck, but the pressure on the drug maker continues to build as more and more Propecia patients become plaintiffs.

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## chrisis

> every drug is being sued!!


 So what? A group of people tried to sue McDonalds.

It's not simply about whether Propecia is going to court, it's about the uncertainty as to the safety of the drug in general. Going to court is part of that investigation and litigation process.

Nobody knows if the 2&#37; figure is right, but indications (and my personal experience) suggest it isn't. Merck have already been wrong about whether the side effects could be permanent in some men, and had to revise their warning label. It's possible they will have to revise it again, *if they're lucky enough to keep it on the market.*

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## 2020

> So what? A group of people tried to sue McDonalds.


 the point is that lawyers will attempt to sue ANYONE if there is a possibility that the other side will settle.




> Nobody knows if the 2&#37; figure is right, but indications (and my personal experience) suggest it isn't.


 what indications.... some blog?? Do I have to refer you to PubMed again?

I said it before: 
ONLY PEOPLE WITH SIDE EFFECTS COMPLAIN ON THE INTERNET!!!
PEOPLE WITHOUT SIDE EFFECTS STAY QUIET.

^ with that in mind, it's understandable why there is so much negative info about this drug. Why can't you understand that?

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## chrisis

> ONLY PEOPLE WITH SIDE EFFECTS COMPLAIN ON THE INTERNET!!!
> PEOPLE WITHOUT SIDE EFFECTS STAY QUIET.


 This is just not true.

I came to this forum before I even tried the drug. I had no side effects for at least 2 months until I noticed them creeping up on me a few weeks ago. I now acknowledge the side effects as being real and more than placebo. If it was just a placebo effect the side effects would have kicked in when I started taking the drug, *NOT 2-3 months later out of the blue.* 

There will be plenty of people who experience side effects who go to their doctor, rather than post on a forum.

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## chrisis

It's also fact that a lot of men don't like to visit their doctors or talk openly about medical stuff, therefore they may be a large number who stop taking Propecia without reporting the side effects. 

There may also be a group of men who think it's a compromise and again, don't report the side effects.

There will be men who don't notice, may think they're just getting old.

Fact of the matter is you're guessing and you don't know enough to advise on the safety of this drug.

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## 2020

ok.... so if you took Propecia and it worked for you(no side effects), what would be the reason to post about it on the Internet? What would you even say? "Hi, my name is bob and I had no side effects while on Propecia!".... no.

However, if you do get side effects you would post about it on the Internet!
You now have questions: are those side effects permanent? should I reduce dosage? what are the alternatives to Propecia?
People with side effects HAVE A REASON to post about it because they need further help.

Is it that hard to believe that millions of people are taking this pill everyday and don't say anything to anyone?

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## chrisis

> ok.... so if you took Propecia and it worked for you(no side effects), what would be the reason to post about it on the Internet? What would you even say? "Hi, my name is bob and I had no side effects while on Propecia!".... no.


 Isn't this exactly what you're doing?  :Confused:  :Confused:  :Confused: 

 :Cool:

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## 2020

> I was just banned on this forum.


 yeah, I reported you many times. 




> Obviously freedom of speech does not apply here, only insults and promoters of hazardous drugs.


 freedom of speech.... you were spewing nonsense! You were doing harm to this forum and that's why you got banned.

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## 2020

> Isn't this exactly what you're doing?


 not really... I might have mentioned that I'm currently on Propecia without side effects but that's it.
I'm only here to research hair loss treatments and help other people.

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## Jcm800

For what it's worth, I've been in touch with a guy for about four years who has been taking Finasteride. He just mailed me today with an ever depressing update and he is having suicidal thoughts, he's in a right state. I really feel for the guy. He took the plunge back then and I didn't.
He's on anti depressants now and his Dr doesn't know what the hell is going on with him. 
Lately I've been contemplating Fin, but his plight scares the life out of me.
If only Fin wasn't Russian roulette.

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## chrisis

Has he gone off the propecia now, JCM800?

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## Jcm800

He took his last tab first week in Jan apparently. he's had 'fits',is emotional, has a constant weird metallic taste in his mouth-and has had enough. Lost his job, ever spiralling downfall.

I recall he used to be upbeat but not now. Said he's had his bloods done and nothing is showing up. Dr has recommended if anti depressants don't help next stop is a neurologist for further investigation.

Seems to me he was going downhill steadily over the last year. 

I'm neutral- not pro or bashing Fin, just wish it was fkn less risky.

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## chrisis

That's sad to hear  :Frown: 

Mine have just been related to my libido. I do feel a bit down, but that's down to my hair!  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Jcm800

Yeah he lost his girlfriend too. Anyway, hope things pick up for him. 

Same for you as well bud, ****ing hairloss is enough to get anyone with a sense of self pride in their appearance down, its so annoying seeing fat slobs with full heads of hair-but then again I wouldn't wish them to lose it either.

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## chrisis

Haha yeah I know what you mean! It's really shallow to say this, but when I see any unattractive guy with a full head of hair I feel a bit robbed. Hopefully I'll find a way to get it back, and you!

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## khan

> For what it's worth, I've been in touch with a guy for about four years who has been taking Finasteride. He just mailed me today with an ever depressing update and he is having suicidal thoughts, he's in a right state. I really feel for the guy. He took the plunge back then and I didn't.
> He's on anti depressants now and his Dr doesn't know what the hell is going on with him. 
> Lately I've been contemplating Fin, but his plight scares the life out of me.
> If only Fin wasn't Russian roulette.


 This is really scary and sad. Do you know how long he was on Propecia before this started to happen?

Been on Finasteride for almost a year now, and doing fine! But jeez, these stories of sides sometimes bring about this moment of extreme fear! I really hope this person and everyone else recover soon. 
I believe the incidence of these side are very small, but they are pretty crazy sides.

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## chrisis

So tonight I asked my friend who recommended finasteride to me whether he had any side effects that he hadn't mentioned.....



It's only a few people on forums thought, right?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## the_charger

> its one of the reasons why I never started propecia treatment


 Wait wait wait... so you never even took the stuff and you are more of a diehard anti finasteride fanatic than even the people that believe they have been permanently damaged by it?

Your posts actually make a lot of sense to me now, I think i have you all figured out. You had obviously struggled with the idea of taking propecia because of what you had read onlineafter much deliberation, you decided not to start treatment out of fear... now as a way to justify your decision, you convince yourself that the stuff is poison and refuse to entertain any evidence that doesn't directly support your beliefs.

Now to top it off, you are on a quest to keep others from taking it no matter what... "Since im doomed to go bald, everyone else should too!

Dont get me wrong. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion. But you have a very skewed perception of the subject and ive seen you lie in almost every one of your posts. You think its okay to lie and stoop to any level to get others not to take propecia, yet Merck is the big evil heartless corporation? I honestly think people like you are the main reason why this whole PFS thing isnt taken seriously online..

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## Jcm800

@khan he was on it around four yrs and sides started coming in after around one looking back. I've got all his old mails-he had constant lower back ache that was never explained quite early along with ball ache, fog, gyno and even strange blisters on his scrotum. 
sides that we all read about. He declared he'd stay away from forums when he started as well. I could almost say I told you so to him now, but it'd be adding insult to injury.
Some are luckier than others, strikes me. Ironically it never did much for his hair either, still have his photo updates that he'd periodically send me for my opinion.

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## SoothSayer

> You think its okay to lie and stoop to any level to get others not to take propecia, yet Merck is the big evil heartless corporation?


 
I didn't see any posts where he lied, but I'm pretty certain he didn't kill anybody.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...estimates.html

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2011/N...-civ-1524.html

In another five to ten years, you'll see news releases of this sort for Propecia.

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## khan

> @khan he was on it around four yrs and sides started coming in after around one looking back. I've got all his old mails-he had constant lower back ache that was never explained quite early along with ball ache, fog, gyno and even strange blisters on his scrotum. 
> sides that we all read about. He declared he'd stay away from forums when he started as well. I could almost say I told you so to him now, but it'd be adding insult to injury.
> Some are luckier than others, strikes me. Ironically it never did much for his hair either, still have his photo updates that he'd periodically send me for my opinion.


 Dude! you're really scaring me man. I am about the 1 year mark too, and doing fine so far, but this is scary cause as you say, it happened to him all of a sudden after being totally fine for the first year.
This suicidal stuff really freaks me out. I knew someone in my university that had those thoughts (wasn't on Fin, had other issues), anyways he went ahead with it and it was really hard for his family and friends. So this kind of stuff really scares me.

I think I am gona take sometime off hairloss forums too. Everytime I come here something more depressing happening to someone shows up, which is really sad.

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## Jcm800

Sorry man not intending to scare anyone, just chimed in about someone I know that is having a bad time. Seems to me that possible side effects kick in after people quit Finasteride more often. But hey I don't even take it so I can't comment on that with any conviction. Just wish we could see before taking it if we would be susceptible to any negative effects. After all many men take it and seem fine, and others suffer ill effects.

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## Daneeka

Okay just made an account to pitch in... this is purely personal opinion...

For about 3 years I've taken Propecia through the Boots hair loss program. Though these days you can just order it online and have it delivered. For me it undoubtedly helped. Hair loss pretty much stopped and became much thicker. I ceased worrying about it. Save for the nagging doubt that it Propecia might not be healthy.

There was a break of about 6 months after I moved to Edinburgh while money was tight, during which the loss returned. I tried to stave it off with Alpecin shampoo but that stuff makes my hair lifeless and scalp dry (must be the caffeine). I resumed taking it about 9 months ago, taking 1 pill every other day. The loss slowed down again, but after the break I guessed it would take longer to achieve the same cumulative effect at a lower dose.

Two weeks ago I stopped because of exactly the same symptoms. I'd noticed the libido thing quite a while ago, but it wasn't really an issue, I could still perform... It was the physiological effect of finding it harder to get an erection, less semen. I'd had slight ache in my testicles (pain in the b***ocks!) for a couple of days; maybe psychosomatic, maybe not. Regardless it's made me reassess.

I've been worried about it since then. Though morning wood has returned. And ejaculate is pretty much normal. Quantity wise I guess that depends on a lot of things, so I'm keeping an eye on it.

Sorry for all the detail, hopefully it's of use.

chrisis -I'd be interested to hear how you're getting on with the Minoxidil. Are you using Nizoral because it makes your scalp itch? Can't stand that! I've got some minoxidil on order, and have never used it. Did you experience accelerated loss at first? This never happened to me with Propecia -so it's a concern.

I definitely want kids so that's me done with Propecia...

----------


## alex82

> Title pretty much sums up this topic. I always do a lot of research before posting a question, but I'd like some more feedback on this if possible.
> 
> Are there any guys who have experienced side effects on the recommended dosage of finasteride (1mg-1.25mg), and then successfully eliminated them with a lower dose?
> 
> If so:
> 
> 1) What was your new dose? 
> 2) What did you notice in terms of your hair?
> 3) Did the side effects go away completely? Or is it a compromise?
> ...


 
Hi Chrisis

Looks like we're in a simmilar situation regards Fin and hairloss type. How are you getting on with the sides after stopping cold?

I started proscar (5ths 1mg) in beginning nov '11 and soon developed same sides as you after 1-2 months. Worst thing being the testicular pain and hard to get erection.

Reduced dosage gradually rather than stopping cold and now on approx 0.25mg every day as best I can measure :Wink:  Sides are better but not 100&#37; I'd say compared to before Fin. Still shedding too :Frown:

----------


## ryan555

I think some guys attribute everything that happens to them to this drug, especially those who anticipate side effects because they read these horror stories online.  I experienced a pretty long bout of depression when I was younger before I ever took fin.  In fact, I've had all kinds of weird, unexplained ailments during my life.  Some of them happened before I took the drug, some happened during and then went away while I was still on it.  The human body is not a perfect machine and things go wrong sometimes.

I am sure that this drug has more common side effects than originally stated by Merck.  I had several side effects while on the drug but I never gave them a second thought because I never read any of these terrible stories and I assumed the drug to be safe.  And I was fortunate that the effects all went away shortly after I stopped the drug.  However, I can tell you for certain that many, MANY drugs on the market are much more dangerous than this one and that it is not uncommon to experience side effects long after you stop them.  Common tranquilizers that Americans pop like candy can cause horrific neurological syndromes and take years to recover from.  Anti-depressants can wreak havoc on people and make depression worse for months after stopping.  Birth control pills cause hormonal side effects in almost 100% of women who take them.  There is an entire class of antibiotic drugs that are widely known to cause severe neurological damage in 5 - 10% of people who take them and they are still on the market.  There are dozens of drugs that are commonly prescribed that have "black box" warnings because they can cause deadly rejection syndromes.  Many psychiatric drugs have long been known to cause permanent neurological twitches in most people who take them long term and they are still prescribed.  And more people die from Tylenol every year than just about any drug on the market.

The point is, taking a drug is a serious decision and you generally have to accept some side effects.  You have to weigh the cost vs. the benefit.  However, in the scheme of things, this drug is really pretty benign for the vast majority of people who take it.

----------


## chrisis

> Hi Chrisis
> 
> Looks like we're in a simmilar situation regards Fin and hairloss type. How are you getting on with the sides after stopping cold?
> 
> I started proscar (5ths 1mg) in beginning nov '11 and soon developed same sides as you after 1-2 months. Worst thing being the testicular pain and hard to get erection.
> 
> Reduced dosage gradually rather than stopping cold and now on approx 0.25mg every day as best I can measure Sides are better but not 100% I'd say compared to before Fin. Still shedding too


 Still got my sides, which is weird because it's supposed to be "all in my head" so surely they should have stopped by now......................  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Glad to hear your sides are better with 0.25mg dose! How much better are they? What do you notice in terms of the difference between 1mg and how you felt before taking it at all?

----------


## khan

> Still got my sides, which is weird because it's supposed to be "all in my head" so surely they should have stopped by now...................... 
> 
> Glad to hear your sides are better with 0.25mg dose! How much better are they? What do you notice in terms of the difference between 1mg and how you felt before taking it at all?


 Chris, I know it can be extremely tough, coping with side and waiting for them to go away. And maybe its not my place to comment here, since I haven't had any (yet), but just as a friendly suggestion, why don't you take some time off worrying. Hanging around these threads listening to people talk about them isn't going to make things better, its definitely not going to make side go away. I know someone who recovered in about 3 months time, and he said it was very gradual road to recovery. 
Anyways, its up to you man, you know whats best.

----------


## bob13

I quit for 6 months after being on it for 5 years.
I had no difference except my hair started to thin.

Don't worry about it.
It's mostly in guys heads.

----------


## chrisis

> I 
> Don't worry about it.
> It's mostly in guys heads.


 Speak for yourself. Not everyone is the same.

Khan: I don't think I'm around these threads enough for them to manifest in my sexual life, but I appreciate the advice. I was hanging around this forum for awhile *before* my side effects kicked in.

I _know_ the drug itself made a difference.

----------


## jayth

> Chris, I know it can be extremely tough, coping with side and waiting for them to go away. And maybe its not my place to comment here, since I haven't had any (yet), but just as a friendly suggestion, why don't you take some time off worrying. Hanging around these threads listening to people talk about them isn't going to make things better, its definitely not going to make side go away. I know someone who recovered in about 3 months time, and he said it was very gradual road to recovery. 
> Anyways, its up to you man, you know whats best.


 Great advice khan. I think I'm gonna do just that. If a bunch of people tell you that you WILL have sides the chances are you will. I noticed after reading on here that the day I started Fin I was convinced I could'nt get a hard on lol Guess what. I had difficulty getting an erection that night. What are the chances of sides on day 1?? I would say slim to none.

----------


## chrisis

I don't mean to be rude but some of you are pretty clueless.

Consider the following:
almost total lack of penis sensitivity
pitiful amount of semen
interest in sex virtually NONE to the extent that even masturbating is a chore

It's not just an issue of not popping a boner one day.

I experienced the above side effects 2-3 months after taking finasteride. I stopped taking it 3 weeks ago and I'm slowly but surely getting back to normal. If, as some of you suggest, the side effects were purely psychological then this presents the question as to why a psychological issue about taking a drug would take *weeks* to resolve. It *strongly* suggests that the drug has a has a very real impact on the body's hormonal system to the extent that the drug manifests *physical* side effects.

I can only conclude that some of you are willingly sticking your head in the sand. Fine, but if you're one of the men susceptible to side effects you *will* suffer them regardless.

----------


## khan

Yes they are probably not psychological but in such a situtation, the only person that can help you is a Doctor, and positive thinking. Listening to people like STTB, telling people they are screwed and will now "never" recover cause they injested poision, is not going to help combat side effects.

There are worse drugs that people take and recover 100&#37; in time. I don't understand how telling people there life is screwed forever helps anyone (and thats what people like STTB have been doing). Even John Crisler has the same attitude. 



> I don't mean to be rude but some of you are pretty clueless.
> 
> Consider the following:
> almost total lack of penis sensitivity
> pitiful amount of semen
> interest in sex virtually NONE to the extent that even masturbating is a chore
> 
> It's not just an issue of not popping a boner one day.
> 
> ...

----------


## 25 going on 65

I am quite suspicious of Dr. Crisler's intentions.

----------


## chrisis

> Listening to people like STTB, telling people they are screwed and will now "never" recover cause they injested poision, is not going to help combat side effects.


 Well I agree. We need to strike a balance between advocating the use of finasteride to prevent hair loss and warning about potential side effects.

----------


## DepressedByHairLoss

I agree with this Chrisis.  I think that constant trolls on here who are very extreme in their anti-Propecia stances give guys like you and me a bad name (sensible guys who are truly experiencing side effects from Propecia).  I myself am experiencing side effects from Propecia yet I continue to take it because I am absolutely scared to death of going bald.  But I know Propecia is causing side effects with me, and I really do believe with strong conviction that Propecia does cause side effects in way more than 3% of men (the number that Merck gives us).  When you drastically curtail the production of an essential male hormone throughout the entire body, the body is not just going to have no reaction whatsoever, I believe.

----------


## DepressedByHairLoss

And also as a sidenote, I started taking Propecia well before I even started researching its side effects on the web.  I've been taking Propecia since mid 2010 and I didn't even sign up on here until 2011.

----------


## chrisis

Indeed! Well I'm happy to say that my side effects are pretty much gone now I think. I will soon be trialing finasteride again at 0.25 or 0.5mg. What dose you on, DepressedByHairLoss?

----------


## Jcm800

Where do you get your Fin from? I was tempted a couple of years ago to go on the Boots hair retention programme, bottled out tho. I even asked my GP about Fin and he said "go for it". He was of the opinion at the time that many patients took Proscar and didn't complain, so Fin shouldn't be a worry.

----------


## chrisis

My friends recommended this site but I can't vouch for it. I bought it before discovering this forum. I'll be using a different source with my next batch, just to be on the safe side.

----------


## Jcm800

IF i tried Fin i'd try Finpecia out of all the generic's available. Spex alway's seem's to recommend that brand (if i remember correctly) But like yourself, i'd be thinking of a low dosage. Just seems like Russian roulette to me tho and can't afford to potentially screw myself up.

----------


## DepressedByHairLoss

> Indeed! Well I'm happy to say that my side effects are pretty much gone now I think. I will soon be trialing finasteride again at 0.25 or 0.5mg. What dose you on, DepressedByHairLoss?


 Hey man, I'm on 1mg of Propecia right now, and have been since mid 2010.  I'm also afraid to go to a lesser dose because again I'm scared to death of losing hair.  Hell, I'm still losing hair on 1mg.  But that could be because I've been a big weight-lifter my whole life and perhaps have more free testosterone floating around, which in turn gets converted to more DHT.  I sure as hell wish I caught my hair loss much earlier.  It's just that I never even thought hair loss could even happen to me so it was never even on my radar.  Yourself and lots of other guys I see on here caught hair loss very very early on and I wish to God that I did too.

----------


## Maradona

> Hey man, I'm on 1mg of Propecia right now, and have been since mid 2010.  I'm also afraid to go to a lesser dose because again I'm scared to death of losing hair.  Hell, I'm still losing hair on 1mg.  But that could be because I've been a big weight-lifter my whole life and perhaps have more free testosterone floating around, which in turn gets converted to more DHT.  I sure as hell wish I caught my hair loss much earlier.  It's just that I never even thought hair loss could even happen to me so it was never even on my radar.  Yourself and lots of other guys I see on here caught hair loss very very early on and I wish to God that I did too.


 hey depressedbyhairloss im thinking on getting on fin again at a lower dose.
Can I ask if you had mental side effects?
At what norwood did you realize you were losing your hair?

I firmly believe replicel will work on follicles that are still alive even if minituarized so I think you're doing good man, wish I had a regimen to stop/slow my hairloss  :Frown:

----------


## Maradona

> My friends recommended this site but I can't vouch for it. I bought it before discovering this forum. I'll be using a different source with my next batch, just to be on the safe side.


 hey bro i would recommend 4rx.com and unitepharmacies, i ordered finpecia from them and well I got the sides lol, so it must be legit.

----------


## chrisis

> Yourself and lots of other guys I see on here caught hair loss very very early on and I wish to God that I did too.


 Oh believe me I feel the same. My photos probably make mine look a lot better than it is in reality. It just kinda creeps on you.  :Frown: 




> hey bro i would recommend 4rx.com and unitepharmacies, i ordered finpecia from them and well I got the sides lol, so it must be legit.


 Haha, it's quite something when you know something's real because it breaks  your dick. I'll give 4rx I try I think, at 0.25mg. It's been the biggest relief my side effects going away  :Smile:  I think it'll be ok to give it a try again on that basis.

----------


## khan

I have been posting on this thread for so long without even reading the topic.

Anyways, I use 0.5mg everydays except for 1mg only on Mondays (for almost a year now). But I never tried the full dose so can't comment on that. I am basically a grad student that lives of a stipend and TA/RA money, so the saved money by using 0.5mg is good for me. Its $54 here in Canada for 30pills.

I think its a strong possibility of lesser sides from lower does. A lot people will argue that it lowers the same amount of DHT, but maybe its not the DHT that causes the sides, perhaps its some other path, that can be significantly lessened by using a lower dose. Anyways I am not an expert so I will stop here. But its worth a try, 0.25mg would be a substancial reduction from the fill dose. Its 1/4 the chemical.

----------


## Maradona

> I have been posting on this thread for so long without even reading the topic.
> 
> Anyways, I use 0.5mg everydays except for 1mg only on Mondays (for almost a year now). But I never tried the full dose so can't comment on that. I am basically a grad student that lives of a stipend and TA/RA money, so the saved money by using 0.5mg is good for me. Its $54 here in Canada for 30pills.
> 
> I think its a strong possibility of lesser sides from lower does. A lot people will argue that it lowers the same amount of DHT, but maybe its not the DHT that causes the sides, perhaps its some other path, that can be significantly lessened by using a lower dose. Anyways I am not an expert so I will stop here. But its worth a try, 0.25mg would be a substancial reduction from the fill dose. Its 1/4 the chemical.


 hey bro and how are the results on .5mg? u stopped the hairloss? shedding?

 any sides?

got morning wood? 

I'll go for .5mg everyday depending on replicel results.

----------


## khan

> hey bro and how are the results on .5mg? u stopped the hairloss? shedding?
> 
>  any sides?
> 
> got morning wood? 
> 
> I'll go for .5mg everyday depending on replicel results.


 Hey Maradona,

I am fine in that Dept., it was never an issue, (thankfully), and I really hope it stays that way. The only side I've had is the occasional mild nut ache, which cleared away after 2months.

My hair are definitely better than they were an year ago. I also shed less hair, but I can't be certain at this point if I have stopped the loss. Only time will tell. So I would be cautious of saying anything beyond, its made my hair much better.

----------


## khan

I forgot to mention the shed. It lasted for about 1.5months. At night when I would put minox there would be 200+ hair in the sink. I once almost cried seeing all those hair. Before Fin, I would see about 70-100. Now I see around 30-50.
But I still can't say I have halted the hairloss. That I'll only know with time.

----------


## DepressedByHairLoss

> hey depressedbyhairloss im thinking on getting on fin again at a lower dose.
> Can I ask if you had mental side effects?
> At what norwood did you realize you were losing your hair?
> 
> I firmly believe replicel will work on follicles that are still alive even if minituarized so I think you're doing good man, wish I had a regimen to stop/slow my hairloss


 Hey Maradona, I'm not sure what Norwood I was or even what Norwood I am now.  I've never had any mental side effects while taking Propecia but I've had a distinct couple of physical/bodily side effects.  
BTW, is that you in the photo?  I'd give my left nut for that head of hair and it doesn't look like you have any hair loss whatsoever.  No one would notice it at all.  
Anyway, it probably won't hurt you to get on fin on a lesser dose, but if that's you in the photo, I don't think you need to worry about your hair at all bro.

----------


## Maradona

> Hey Maradona, I'm not sure what Norwood I was or even what Norwood I am now.  I've never had any mental side effects while taking Propecia but I've had a distinct couple of physical/bodily side effects.  
> BTW, is that you in the photo?  I'd give my left nut for that head of hair and it doesn't look like you have any hair loss whatsoever.  No one would notice it at all.  
> Anyway, it probably won't hurt you to get on fin on a lesser dose, but if that's you in the photo, I don't think you need to worry about your hair at all bro.


 haha thats not me man. It's a football player who had a lot of hair, well still does.

yeah i might try .5mg of propecia but im scared of permanent mental sides... :Frown:  I feel like it could be one of the biggest mistakes I could make, certainly not the biggest though  :Big Grin:  .

I'll see what replicel has to say then I'll make a decision, thanks for your reply  :Embarrassment:

----------


## Losing_It

I have been on fin since May of 2011. I first noticed hairloss in 2010, well I knew something was up, but it did'nt hit me until the beginning of 2011. The first month I definetly had brain fog which went away after the second or third month. In January of this year I started to get less morning erections, so I lowered my dose to .5mg first every second day and now every morning. Well I now got my morning erections back, although I hope that half the dose will be as effective as 1mg. 

I will see how it goes and report back. By the way I am 32 in 3 months and I suppose my hairloss is not that bad. I think I caught it early and hope to manage it going forward.

----------


## chrisis

Good to hear you resolved your issue Losing_it. Hoping I can do the same, but I'm still scared to touch finasteride if I'm honest. I don't think I'm 100% back to normal, and it's been around a month since I stopped  :Frown: 

I do wonder if those who consistently stick their heads in the sands about the side effects of finasteride are reading these posts that keep coming up. It's like they have selective bias and stick their fingers in their ears - la la la I can't hear you!!!  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## khan

^Chris, people that have sides are much more likely to come to forums and report them. Just think of how many people that take this drug and the number of people that come to these forums with complaints.
So you are right, there is a bias.

----------


## Maradona

> Good to hear you resolved your issue Losing_it. Hoping I can do the same, but I'm still scared to touch finasteride if I'm honest. I don't think I'm 100% back to normal, and it's been around a month since I stopped 
> 
> I do wonder if those who consistently stick their heads in the sands about the side effects of finasteride are reading these posts that keep coming up. It's like they have selective bias and stick their fingers in their ears - la la la I can't hear you!!!


 Hello chris i think i know why you have side effects.

You said your hair loss was very slow right? it could be because even though your follicles were sensitive to DHT, you had a low DHT all this time since yours 20 and thats why you still have lots of hair now.

So your body has to work with that low DHT and finasteride took it away...you know? so thats why you had side effects.

Imo, it could take you up to a year to get back your normal self.

When I took fin and got sides i recovered quickly because I have very very high DHT.

just a thought bro, just wait and don't stress out.

----------


## NotBelievingIt

If you had very high DHT and had sides, I'm curious what the rest of your figures were for things like free test, estradiol and SHBG.

----------


## chrisis

> ^Chris, people that have sides are much more likely to come to forums and report them. Just think of how many people that take this drug and the number of people that come to these forums with complaints.
> So you are right, there is a bias.


 Wasn't the case with me. My sides came after I joined the forum. I know people offline who have sides and haven't posted to any forums about it. I rarely see people creating posts complaining just about sides, normally it's just a remark. People come to this forum for answers about their hair loss, not to specifically complain about finasteride. Also any bias is more than offset by the fact that many men won't mention it at all because they're either embarrassed or have learned to deal with it or compromise. 




> just a thought bro, just wait and don't stress out.


 Thanks mate. Sounds like a plausible theory  :Smile:

----------


## rjg1

> Title pretty much sums up this topic. I always do a lot of research before posting a question, but I'd like some more feedback on this if possible.
> 
> Are there any guys who have experienced side effects on the recommended dosage of finasteride (1mg-1.25mg), and then successfully eliminated them with a lower dose?
> 
> If so:
> 
> 1) What was your new dose? 
> 2) What did you notice in terms of your hair?
> 3) Did the side effects go away completely? Or is it a compromise?
> ...


 hi Chrisis, 

I'm new to this forum, have you since noticed any side effects subsiding?

Thanks!

----------


## clandestine

chrisis; found a post that might be of some interest to you.





> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15913872
> 
> Use the link above and see for yourself. Claritan (Loratadine) has been clinically determined to solve erectile dysfunction in men. I suffered from sexual dysfunction for many years after discontinuing propecia and stumbled upon this by accident. I tried Claritan for an allergy and the next day I noticed that I had regained full erectile function. Try it please and never give up hope.

----------


## chrisis

> hi Chrisis, 
> 
> I'm new to this forum, have you since noticed any side effects subsiding?
> 
> Thanks!


 Yeah very slowly! I still have less sensitivity and take longer to... you know. 

There's not a single doubt in my head that it's 100% down to finasteride.




> chrisis; found a post that might be of some interest to you.


 Thanks clandestine. I'm just giving it time and hoping it'll all go back to normal. I'm about 80% function maybe. I try not to obsess on it, because that probably won't help. I can't forget about it though. The symptoms are as obvious to me as asking an amputee to forget he has a missing leg. I've no doubt given my experience that finasteride is a dangerous drug and one day I'll be vindicated. There's no way to know if you'll be in the % affected, so roll the dice: you feeling lucky punk?

----------


## fab

I took Finasteride 1mg for 10 years, I wanted to write my experience.

I'm also suffering from ED, loss of libido, lack of sex drive. Never had a problem that i noticed before, only noticed a year back it was slowly becoming a problem.

What I want to add is: Please go see a doctor, urologist, what ever it is, and do all the blood work for everything including thyroid function (there is a list of exams you can google), prostate ultrasound, urine exams, everything that can be done to see the root of the problem. Then come here and report your findings.

In my case, I took Finasteride and after 10 years I had problems, googled and assumed it's finasteride, but I'm going to do the exams to confirm that theory. And then come here and report.

I believe that Finasteride aggravates and/or generates problems that will cause the sexual dysfunction and these needs to be addressed.

I believe I have prostatitis (don't know how i acquired that). I'm going to do an ultrasound and will let you all know. This might have an effect on my ED, on top of finasteride.

My free T was also low, this as well has something to do.

So, in conclusion, It's not only Finasteride, it can be many other factors.

----------


## tizzle

I made the account only to share this. 

I startet losing hair very quick so i started to take finasteride 1.25 mg each day. My Doctor told me that sexual sides are often only in the head. But i took it over two months with no sides an i didnt give it another thought. So when i started to get less hard erections, it was definitely caused by Fin.

So i lowered the dose to 0.6 and within 1 week i got all my "strenght" back  :Smile: 
I guess i came back so fast because i have been taking it for only 3 month before reducing the dose.

I am aware that on the DHT scale, 0.6 ist reducing DHT almost as much as 1mg. Therefore sides should be the same, since the sides are caused by lowering DHT right?

But nevertheless i wanted to share that in my case reducing the dose made all my sides go away

Unfortunately i think my hair loss isnt much better yet. Since reducing the dose i started Minoxidil too out of despair  :Frown:  But i only startet in january, i guess i have to hang in there

----------


## chrisis

Thanks for creating your account to share that Tizzle.

The more people who come forward, the more it becomes quite clear that the study numbers do not reflect reality.

I'm glad you managed to resolve your side effects.

fab, I will probably see a doctor and endocrinologist soon. I have to say though, I had no issues with my sexual health whatsoever until 2 months after taking this drug. I'd be shocked if it was something else.

----------


## the_charger

> I made the account only to share this. 
> 
> I startet losing hair very quick so i started to take finasteride 1.25 mg each day. My Doctor told me that sexual sides are often only in the head. But i took it over two months with no sides an i didnt give it another thought. So when i started to get less hard erections, it was definitely caused by Fin.


 how did you know they were definitely caused by fin? just because sides might be in your head it doesnt mean that you even consciously know its happening... when your doctor says its in your head, he didnt mean people fake them or consciously decide to have side effects, its a subconscious thing actually





> So i lowered the dose to 0.6 and within 1 week i got all my "strenght" back 
> I guess i came back so fast because i have been taking it for only 3 month before reducing the dose.
> 
> I am aware that on the DHT scale, 0.6 ist reducing DHT almost as much as 1mg.


 i saw a DHT scale too, I am trying to find it again, but I remembe rthe difference between 0.5mg and 1mg is only a cople percentage difference.. I remember DHT is lowered by like 56% on 0.5 and by 60% on 1mg. this is almost insignificant, especially because your hormones fluctuate by even more than this throughout the day.. 

another thing to consider is side effects in men on 1mg compared to 5mg are pretty much exactly the same.. so as long as you are taking enough of the drug to lower DHT (again by that scale I think this was somewhere around 0.3mg or something) then the effect on your body is pretty much the same.





> Therefore sides should be the same, since the sides are caused by lowering DHT right?


 no, it is pretty clear that sides arent caused by lowering DHT alone. one example that this isnt the case is that there is another drug similar to finasteride called dutasteride, but that drug lowers DHT by 95%, but side effects are almost exactly the same as men who take finasteride and lower DHT by 60%

but yes, thanks for sharing your story with us, it is interesting to learn all these different experiences!

----------


## tizzle

Thank you for your explenations. 

Well i guess i cannot be 100% sure it was Fin, but there are several things i did not mension in my first post, because I primarely wanted to share my good reaction to a lower dose.

It wasnt only erection problems but libido as well. I had no interest in sex and believe me when i say that i was horny all the time and my erections were extremely hard (Sorry for the dirty talk  :Big Grin:  ) When i took my mind of the sexual aspect while being in bed with my girlfriend (lets say closing the blinds) the erection instantly became "weaker". 

I am glad to learn that sides do not seem to be caused only by the low DHT. So i can still hope that 0.5 will do something for my hair i guess. (its more like 0.625 mg since i cut a proscar into 8 pieces)

----------


## the_charger

> Thank you for your explenations. 
> 
> Well i guess i cannot be 100% sure it was Fin, but there are several things i did not mension in my first post, because I primarely wanted to share my good reaction to a lower dose.
> 
> It wasnt only erection problems but libido as well. I had no interest in sex and believe me when i say that i was horny all the time and my erections were extremely hard (Sorry for the dirty talk  ) When i took my mind of the sexual aspect while being in bed with my girlfriend (lets say closing the blinds) the erection instantly became "weaker".


 Check this out: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...563.x/abstract

It isnt a huge study, only done on around 100 guys, but it is still a very relevant example of those mental side effects.. it shows both ed and libido are effected by being told about the side effects.

though obviously propecia does cause side effects, because when studies are done properly with a placebo people who take propecia have around 2% higher rates of side effects.. but the study shows that its probabably much more likely if someone is having side effects its because its in their mind. fyi too, this isnt my theory, I learned about this from a doctor who had an interview with spencer about a year ago, and I completely agree with her.

but what I dont know if you can just snap out of it, or does this keep happening based on your mood, or if it happens is it there to stay until you stop taking the medication? this I dont know, maybe if we have some doctors or especially anyone that knows a lot about psychology reading this they can shine some light on it.






> I am glad to learn that sides do not seem to be caused only by the low DHT. So i can still hope that 0.5 will do something for my hair i guess. (its more like 0.625 mg since i cut a proscar into 8 pieces)


 in all likelyhood it should help your hair just the same! because your DHT is being lowered almost the same as if you were taking a full 1mg dose... but im not sure if there are any studies done on a lower dose to prove how effective it is

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## chrisis

The Charger, starting to think you must have a vested interest in defending Propecia. The amount of time you devote to interrogating people who've suffered from side effects is not normal. Let people have their say.

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## fab

> Check this out: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...563.x/abstract


 Hi charger, this is good to know and I had an idea about it, but from my experience, when I 1st took this drug, years ago, my doc warned me and I read the label, I knew about the sexual side effects, I took it anyways, I had no problems, but i've always noticed that something was wrong (sometimes i'd have problems in getting it hard but didn't care about it because I thought it could be something else, but the truth is, Fin indeed got me a bit, but i could get by, and i also noticed a high incidence of anxiety, forgetfulness, emotional sensibility, depression, these last ones i didn't know what was. After years I went to know that these may also be caused/aggravated by Fin). And just recently they changed the label for this drug.

So just recently, i lots libido completely and ED has affected me, just out of the blue. I know it's hard to believe in that, and that's why I'm still investigating what could be.. As I said Fin has an affect on it, but it could also be something else, (some people say the problems are only Fin related but I want to confirm that before, people are different and one thing I learned, this drug affects different people in different ways) Read my other post here: http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthr...?t=8246&page=9

There is no studies about it long-term, over 10-15 years.

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## fab

So, just wanted to add and explain better, this is really interesting, as i said, something was always wrong with me and I always thought it was something else. As i said, anxiety, forgetfulness, emotional sensibility, depression, i had no idea what was, just thought i was always like that, but when I stopped Fin they went away (the sexual sides remain). So while on Fin, these sides were for years with me, i would have really bad anxiety issues, and everything related to that.

There are studies (example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17026771), which proves that Finasteride mechanism of action also diminishes neurosteroids that regulate anxiety and depression. This is interesting also: http://www.baldingblog.com/2006/04/1...from-propecia/ so these are all side-effects that can happen, not only the sexual ones, very interesting.

And this is not all, prostate cancer is also one: http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/S.../ucm258529.htm

The truth is, the side effects may be there, but you get by, or not, even the sexual sides might strike you a bit, in some part of your life, but they might not disturb you enough for you to notice or care about it.

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## bob13

> The Charger, starting to think you must have a vested interest in defending Propecia. The amount of time you devote to interrogating people who've suffered from side effects is not normal. Let people have their say.


 The same could be said about you. At Least Charger backs it up.

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## gutted

> *My free T was also low, this as well has something to do.*


 in my opinion the sides from fin are 100% related to hormone levels- tesosterone and/or dht.
They both are low on individuals that are affected from sides.

This may be of some benefit -> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12659241

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## tizzle

my personal experience is that the low dht level is not the only reason for sideeffects. i reduced my dose to 0.6mg daily (from 1.25) mg daily and my sides disappeared very quickly. And even though placebo effect is extremely complex, i do believe that my side were caused by Fin. But thats just my experiece, i cant back that up with science

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## chrisis

> The same could be said about you. At Least Charger backs it up.


 You can trace my posts back from when I started at this forum. I had nothing negative to say about Propecia until I experienced sides, and even then I wasn't very critical until they persisted after months. All I've ever done is describe my experiences and advise other people accordingly. I totally get that you disagree with me doing that, but I'm going to continue anyway!  :Smile: 

Also, just because you disagree with what I've said, doesn't mean I haven't backed myself up. Maybe it's time to start making some contributions yourself, instead of clinging to the coat tails of other people you agree with. Offering nothing but your own positive testimony on Propecia is pretty useless, and harassing those who have suffered side effects for the sake of it is pretty sick - as others have already pointed out.

In short, either offer something constructive to the discussion or stfu.

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## bob13

Grow instead of telling somebody to ***off.

You suffer moderately , quit blaming everybody that doesn't.

I felt sorry from you but now I dont believe you cause you would have gotten help from a MD.

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## chrisis

> .
> You suffer moderately , quit blaming everybody that doesn't.


 Can you quote me blaming you or anybody?

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## seattle30

This is anecdotal but for whats its worth I went to half a pill after getting the sides from propecia shortly after and it didn't change anything.  I still have the persistent sides almost four years later

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## 25 going on 65

> 0.1 mg seems to do virtually nothing for DHT inhibition when you look at blood tests.


 I know I said this quite awhile back but I still feel the need to correct myself. When I wrote that I was thinking of .01 mg, because I was referencing an inhibition curve chart from memory. 
.1 mg, which is 10x the dose, actually does seem to have a noticeable inhibition effect. Obviously not as strong as higher doses, but it's there.

Apologies for the misinformation.

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## seattle30

> in my opinion the sides from fin are 100% related to hormone levels- tesosterone and/or dht.
> They both are low on individuals that are affected from sides.
> 
> This may be of some benefit -> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12659241


 That may be true in some cases but from what I have read that is not the truth.  I know in my cases I have had t and dht tests done and they are perfectly normal and within range.  My dht level was 56 ng/dl and the range at the lab was 27-75.  My doctor put me on testim treatment even when my t numbers were not even on the low end of the range and this didn't really do anything to alleviate the persistent low libido and ed caused by propecia.  The persistent sides are caused by something very complex, possibly something epigentic. 

What is also interesting is that my 3 alpha diol levels were tested.  3 alpha diol is a neurosteroid and metabolite of testosterone.  The test results were that my 3 alpha diol level was at 695 ng/dl, the range is  340-2200, so definitely at the low end of the range.  I found this interesting becuase of how the testosterone metabolism to this neurosteroid works.

"Testosterone undergoes metabolism to neurosteroids via two distinct pathways. Aromatization of the A-ring converts testosterone into 17beta-estradiol. Reduction of testosterone by 5alpha-reductase generates 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT), which is then converted to 3alpha-androstanediol (3alpha-Diol), a powerful GABA(A) receptor-modulating neurosteroid with anticonvulsant properties."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2837610

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15489042

3 alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase is the enzyme which converts dht to the neurosteroid 3 alpha diol.  It is also responsible for the conversion to the neurosteroids allopregnanolone and THDOC.  I did not have my 3 alpha diol numbers tested before I went on propecia so I don't know if you can really draw any conclusions from this but nonetheless it is pretty interesting.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8440186

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## fab

Very interesting seattle30. This is also interesting: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8883822

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## seattle30

Nice find fab, thanks for posting

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## gutted

> That may be true in some cases but from what I have read that is not the truth.  I know in my cases I have had t and dht tests done and they are perfectly normal and within range.  My dht level was 56 ng/dl and the range at the lab was 27-75.  My doctor put me on testim treatment even when my t numbers were not even on the low end of the range and this didn't really do anything to alleviate the persistent low libido and ed caused by propecia.  The persistent sides are caused by something very complex, possibly something epigentic. 
> 
> What is also interesting is that my 3 alpha diol levels were tested.  3 alpha diol is a neurosteroid and metabolite of testosterone.  The test results were that my 3 alpha diol level was at 695 ng/dl, the range is  340-2200, so definitely at the low end of the range.  I found this interesting becuase of how the testosterone metabolism to this neurosteroid works.
> 
> "Testosterone undergoes metabolism to neurosteroids via two distinct pathways. Aromatization of the A-ring converts testosterone into 17beta-estradiol. Reduction of testosterone by 5alpha-reductase generates 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT), which is then converted to 3alpha-androstanediol (3alpha-Diol), a powerful GABA(A) receptor-modulating neurosteroid with anticonvulsant properties."
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2837610
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15489042
> 
> ...


 
woow, using propecia and messing with these complex pathways is really not a good idea.

if 3 alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, converts dht to 3 alpha dio then it could be that dht is low in individuals suffering from sides, as not enough is being converted.

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## 25 going on 65

> woow, using propecia and messing with these complex pathways is really not a good idea.


 Depends on your priorities.

I would rather have 8 more years of good hair, and then sudden death or horrible chronic illness, than 80 more years as a bald guy. Literally.

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## seattle30

propecia definitely messes with pathways

http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cont...5-524-f02.jpeg

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## seattle30

In the Dr. Traish paper in the JSM it says propecia is 50 times weaker at inhibiting 5a-R1  than 5a-R2

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## tizzle

i keep staring at the dht inhibition chart where it says that the dht is lowered by a single dose of Fin for at least 2 days without a change.

Why is it recommended to take fin everyday if dht level in the serum will stay the same?

EDIT: I`m sorry to post a link from that shitty propeciahelp site but its the only one i found where the chart is the first post.

http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/vi...php?f=8&t=1170

I have to add that i take 0.5mg every day but i want to reduce it as much as i can

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## fab

no worries tizzle, i'm posting it here..  good question!

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## tizzle

Thx for posting!

i guess for people who have no sideeffects at all, there is no reason to take it every other day if there is even the slightest chance that the effect is not as good as it would be with everyday use.

But for people who are unlucky and do experience sides, taking it every other day seems to be a very good alternative.

I reduced my dose from 1.25 to 0.625 and eliminated sides. But now (a few weeks later) i think its getting e little bit worse (not bad but not perfect either, it might be in my head only though)

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## willy

I just logged back in to this site and thought I'd post an update in case anyone reads over this dead thread. It looks like its been about a year since I've been here. 

Anyway, I stopped fin totally since March and to be honest the mental sides are still there but WAY less and still getting better. I was on fin for so many years I think it will take a while to get back to normal. I've noticed I've got slight gyno too... but not too bad.

I've been taking Clonazepam ( under psychiatrist supervision) at .5 mg twice per day and it has TOTALLY eradicated the brain fog. I quit taking SSRIs and feel fine as I wasn't depressed. I think fin helped my hair but the sides are not worth it. At this point if things ever go downhill I'll just go for a HT.. or HST (if that's for real).

I feel MUCH better mentally and i'll never go back on fin. My hair is doing great and I don't notice much change if at all. I use emu oil on occassion and work out regularly. I also use the Body shop ginger shampoo. No more irritation. 

Overall I'm happy the fog is gone, I enjoy life again.

cheers
Willy

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## baldozer

> But my anxiety is bad and it's becoming more important than my hair fml
> 
> Anyway, the good news is I found some pics I took on exactly Feb 2, 2002 and just took one right now for comparison. Again, I started Propecia close to when it came out in 1998. The GP hadn't even heard of it when I went to the clinic.
> 
> Over the years I've taken nothing but fin (1mg then later 1.25mg). In the last 5 years I've been using a Ginger Scalp shampoo with Piroctine olamine in it that I honestly think has done wonders for my hair. I used to be paranoid about my hair until I starting using that shampoo.
> 
> I tried minox for about 3 months in 2004 but hated it so I stopped. 
> 
> Before and after shots. (white shirt is 2002, grey is today)


 You don't even have MPB, you have been needlessly feeding poison to your body.

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## seattle30

glad to hear your brain fog is gone Willy and that you are doing better now that you are off the fin.

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## cs2257

delete post

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## thechamp

Any one been able to control weight gain on propecia ?

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## StayThick

> Any one been able to control weight gain on propecia ?


 Yes, by simply quitting!!

I know I couldn't while on it and I worked out 4-5 days a week...extremely difficult to lose the weight caused by Propecia usage while on the treatment.

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## thechamp

It's better being a little bit chubby than being bald!!

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## StayThick

You seeing results from Propecia theChamp?

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## thechamp

I get amazing results with fin but weight gain is the problem

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## thechamp

I am thinking of taking fin every nine days I might be able to not gain weight and keep my hair I have noticed it takes about tweaks to loose what hair i gained with fin.

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## thechamp

Can propecia disturb your thyroid ??

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## Glawre

I have been using Propecia for a year, .5mm every day which is half the reccomended dose. Pretty soon after I statred using the drug I got a degree of side effects but continnued using the drug because it did make a difference in my hair.  I was using Propecia 10 years ago at the reccomended 1mm per day dose and stopped because of the side effects which were severe.  Recenently I disscontinued the drug for 30 days and got my DHT level tested.  Now I have a baseline. I started back on the drug at .5mm everyother day and after 30 days I will get my DHT tested again to see what effect .5mm every other day makes on my DHT level.  I can get back to you.

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