# Men's Hair Loss > Men's Hair Loss: Start Your Own Topic >  FDA busting ALL 15% Minoxidil? Expiry dates?

## Xandroxuser

It looks as though both perfect image solutions and, most recently, minoxidil max have gone the way of Richard Lee/minoxidil solutions. FDA bust.

Does anyone have 'expert' knowledge of 'use by/expiry' dates for 5% and 15% solutions similar to ******* (minoxidil and azeliac acid)?

Dr Lee's generally had around a two year expiry period on the label.

'Dr Park' had no labels, but in an email reply wrote to me: 'Well over a year, closer to two years'.

Does anyone have 'expert' knowledge on whether it makes a difference if stored differently, or once opened?

What did 'Perfect Image Solutions' say on the bottle. I have no knowledge of their products?

Any comments would be gratefully received.

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## Dr. Glenn Charles

Most of those products will still work well beyond the expiration date. It is possible that when the product gets very old it will start to loose some of its effectivenss. Remember the companies who make this stuff want people to throw out any of the remaining product at its expiration date and buy more right away.

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## bluewater

I just found out Perfect Image Solutions is closed. Is this permenently? If so what are the other sources for 15% Min?

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## Dr. Glenn Charles

Every compounding pharmacy I know or have heard of has been shut down or ordered to stop making any Finasteride of more than 5%.

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## bluewater

I am only into my second bottle of 15%, what can I expect differently from the 5%? I think it was to early to tell if the 15% was being effective.

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## Tracy C

I am quite sure Dr. Charles meant to say Minoxidil rather than Finasteride.

Anyways, there is likely a darn good reason for shutting down these "providers".   The strongest strength of Minoxidil permitted by the FDA without a prescription is 5&#37;.  There is a reason for that.  Increasing strength does not equate to increasing the effectiveness.  However, increasing the strength does equate to increasing the possibility of experiencing negative side effects.

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## Xandroxuser

> I am quite sure Dr. Charles meant to say Minoxidil rather than Finasteride.
> 
> Anyways, there is likely a darn good reason for shutting down these "providers".   The strongest strength of Minoxidil permitted by the FDA without a prescription is 5%.  There is a reason for that.  Increasing strength does not equate to increasing the effectiveness.  However, increasing the strength does equate to increasing the possibility of experiencing negative side effects.


 Dr Lee did 'prescribe' - with a 'prescription'. The FDA closed him down, but we have no evidence that it was because he 'prescribed' 15% minoxidil for some patients. He believed - as did many of his patients - that it was more 'effective' for some of his patients than 5%, other things being equal. A major difference between Dr Lee's products and recent internet providers is that any possible and actual negative side-effects could be discussed with Dr Lee and a decision taken accordingly. I wouldn't want to idealise the man - he was, of course, in business, but I do think his operation should not be equated with Ebay, Amazon and snake oil sellers. We need another Dr Lee!

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## BaldMike

> I am quite sure Dr. Charles meant to say Minoxidil rather than Finasteride.
> 
> Anyways, there is likely a darn good reason for shutting down these "providers".   The strongest strength of Minoxidil permitted by the FDA without a prescription is 5%.  There is a reason for that.  Increasing strength does not equate to increasing the effectiveness.  However, increasing the strength does equate to increasing the possibility of experiencing negative side effects.


 Then why does Rogaine report the statistical results of the 15% solution in their commercials as a market campaign for their over priced 5% solution? The study showed better results with a 15% solution compared to a 5% solution.

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## bluewater

Commercials are you reffering to? I have been doing the 15% for just a couple of months, not long enough to know if it is working. I am, stuck now, I guess going to the 5% stuff. I was never able to find any information supporting the higher concentrations effectiveness, other than word of mouth.

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## BaldMike

> Commercials are you reffering to? I have been doing the 15% for just a couple of months, not long enough to know if it is working. I am, stuck now, I guess going to the 5% stuff. I was never able to find any information supporting the higher concentrations effectiveness, other than word of mouth.


 Just the generic commercial for Rogaine they report 89% of men regrow hair. When I first looked into the 15% solutions, that I ran across while trying to find less expensive 5% solutions, I read the actually study that the 89% statistic comes from and (if my memory serves my correctly) that was for the 15% solution not the 5% solution. I will look for the study again and post a link when I find it.

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## bluewater

If true . That would be very revealing. I'd say that would constitute false advertising. So what, which , if either are you using? If I could have anticipated this, I would have stocked up on the PIS 15%. I saw that a bottle of that stuff on Amazon   is now running close to $300! I would not have sold it for that. I would have kept it to use it to get me through the next few months to see if it was of any value. I am a better person that that.

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## Tracy C

> Then why does Rogaine report the statistical results of the 15% solution in their commercials as a market campaign for their over priced 5% solution?


 That is a pretty serious accusation.  Can you back that up with legitimate and verifiable sources?

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## BaldMike

> That is a pretty serious accusation.  Can you back that up with legitimate and verifiable sources?


 I understand it is, and the false advertising issue I recall was the first thing that popped into my mind while reading the study. As I stated before when I find the article I will post it, until then take it with a grain of salt.

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## BaldMike

> If true . That would be very revealing. I'd say that would constitute false advertising. So what, which , if either are you using? If I could have anticipated this, I would have stocked up on the PIS 15%. I saw that a bottle of that stuff on Amazon   is now running close to $300! I would not have sold it for that. I would have kept it to use it to get me through the next few months to see if it was of any value. I am a better person that that.


 I started with 15% from Perfect Image LLC, then tried PHP LLC (No PG), then finally Ideal Image Solutions LLC with the intent on ordering 3-6 months worth of the product I liked the best. I also didn't know the FDA was putting the AX down on these so when I went to place my larger order (Ideal Image Solutions was my choice, PHP was the worst) I was surprised when I couldn't. 

I use a generic 5% solution in the morning both vertex and crown and the 15% solution before bed and 15% 2x a day on days I won't be going out. I also use a very light hair product (I have curly frizzy hair) that uses the same chemical solvents as the generic 5% so I also add some (a lot) to that.

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## bluewater

If you ask me. And I had no idea that selling the high octane version was illegal. I gues I will get my old self some 5% and see how that goes. I have less than a half a bottle of the 15% left. How is the 5% working for you?

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## BaldMike

> If you ask me. And I had no idea that selling the high octane version was illegal. I gues I will get my old self some 5% and see how that goes. I have less than a half a bottle of the 15% left. How is the 5% working for you?


 Still doing 5% in the morning and 15% at night. I can defiantly see new hair growth in my hair line, hair looks thinker and I see less of it falling out in the shower, and I have been told that I have new hairs on the vertex of my scalp. So I would say pretty well. Don't get scared or discouraged if your hair starts to fall out more at first, mine did then stopped and then I started to see new hairs. And let me know if you find someone selling 15% online!

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## bluewater

Treating my hairline as well. I have spent hours over the past few days looking for the 15% solution . All I have been able to find is outdated information about products that are no longer available. I will keep looking and will let you know if I find anything. I am hoping that eventually somebody fills the void.

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## badhair

Looks like Minoxidil Max is fully back. I ordered from them recently. I received my order in 10 days, which is not bad at all for an international order.

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## bluewater

Where did you get it? I have not heard of that brand of 15% soulotion before.

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## Xandroxuser

The last thing I knew was that ************ was supplying to all but the USA. Just order through their website.

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## ThinningB420

Interesting, the first dermatologist I saw said they could mix up to 20% minoxidil for me.  To me he seemed all about the $$$. He charged $425 for the consultation alone.

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## JLTSKFL

I don't know how much trouble you want to go through, but Minoxidil is a crystalline powder dissolved in the water/alcohol solution, and it has a very high melting point and decomposition point. If one were to boil off 2/3 of the liquid, you would be left with a 15% solution.

Furthermore, just applying 3 ml would probably have the same effect.

In addition, it might be more beneficial to increase the dose to 1 ml of 5% 6 times a day vs two 1 ml applications of 15%. Only a study would say for sure.

Edit: Wait, I just read that due to solubility issues, the concentration of Minoxidil in water/ethanol without additives cannot exceed 7%. One can still apply more 5% solution at once, though.

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