# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  How does Dr. Wesley's Scarless Pilofocus work?

## FlightTL

I looked on his website, and on the Pilofocus website, but it doesn't say anywhere exactly how it works....


Anyone know how it works????

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## PatientlyWaiting

I want to ask some questions about it too. Like is it as good as an FUT but only scarless, or is it like the FUE but only without the "white dots"? Because if it gives results like FUT then that would be pretty interesting.

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## Tracy C

The graft survival rate seems to be at least on par with FUT.  This in addition to the prevention of scarring is good news for those who can afford to have this procedure.  It's not great news but it is good news.

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## PayDay

I listened  to the bald truth last night and I can confirm Spencer Kobren said he believes that this will change everything in hair transplantation. He also said that the grafts that were being extracted with Wesley's technique were as substantial as FUT grafts and that theoretically regeneration is possible, but has not been fully tested yet.

Spencer  stated  Wesely will freely share his technique, and said the  if everything that he was shown is duplicatable than this is it,  scarless hair transplants are here!

The implications of this are HUGE!

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## HARIRI

> I listened  to the bald truth last night and I can confirm Spencer Kobren said he believes that this will change everything in hair transplantation. He also said that the grafts that were being extracted with Wesley's technique were as substantial as FUT grafts and that theoretically regeneration is possible, but has not been fully tested yet.
> 
> Spencer  stated  Wesely will freely share his technique, and said the  if everything that he was shown is duplicatable than this is it,  scarless hair transplants are here!
> 
> The implications of this are HUGE!


 Well Said PayDay, Im excited as Hell from this. Hopefully it will available in 2014 with European surgeons after my scar revision with Feriduni this year.

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## didi

iF SPECNCE   says its good it must be good, normaly he is very sceptical about cutting edge technologies

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## didi

How much does dr wesley charges per fue graft?

When is he going to offer this procedure?

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## Zao

> I listened  to the bald truth last night and I can confirm Spencer Kobren said he believes that this will change everything in hair transplantation. He also said that the grafts that were being extracted with Wesley's technique were as substantial as FUT grafts and that theoretically regeneration is possible, but has not been fully tested yet.
> 
> Spencer  stated  Wesely will freely share his technique, and said the  if everything that he was shown is duplicatable than this is it,  scarless hair transplants are here!
> 
> The implications of this are HUGE!


 Man this is really exciting! I agree that if Spencer says this can work, then it must be something very special and innovative.

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## stayhopeful

guys, let's be real.  This is HUGE.. sure we need to get more evidence and facts.  But #1, the fact that Spencer has intimate knowledge of this technology and is praising it is huge, and #2, scarless hair transplant for real?? I am farrr more likely to undergo a scarless FUE procedure with the same density as FUT and farrr less invasive... this is huge.

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## jgold

Yeaaap, this is baum. Super baum.

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## HARIRI

> iF SPECNCE   says its good it must be good, normaly he is very sceptical about cutting edge technologies


 I agree with you Didi, Spencer is the biggest critic in the hair loss industry and I trust his opinion and words 100%. After what he said in the last US episode, I'm excited as ever for this new FUE technology and willing to delay my FUE surgery till its available in the European HT market hopefully with Bisanga or Feriduni.

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## 534623

> I agree with you Didi, Spencer is the biggest critic in the hair loss industry and I trust his opinion and words 100&#37;. After what he said in the last US episode, I'm excited as ever for this new FUE technology and willing to delay my FUE surgery till its available in the European HT market hopefully with Bisanga or Feriduni.


 Even it would be "scarless" (wasn't it Spencer Kobren who told you guys that EVERY incision causes "scarring"?) - the moth-eaten effect is still there ...

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12643610.jpg

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## FearTheLoss

I don't understand why you are all excited about this Gho has been doing scarless surgery for years.

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## HARIRI

> Even it would be "scarless" (wasn't it Spencer Kobren who told you guys that EVERY incision causes "scarring"?) - the moth-eaten effect is still there ...
> 
> http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12643610.jpg


 I know this Bro, once you are cut you are cut. He kept saying this for years but just based on what he said in the last episode he looked amazed and confident about this Pilofocus thing and said that it will change the FUE industry for real. I mean it wont be like HST where hair will grow in the donor. I think it will be more like this Acell stuff where you will have an empty areas but without fibrotic tissue. It will be just like a normal skin which will be a healthier environment to FUE here to it. This is my observation. You may have greater knowledge than me.

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## didi

to avoid moth eaten effect you simply shave sides and back, nobody will ever be abe to tell you had HT. It awsome. Yield is on par of FUT, right?

Iron man i beleive you wont be able to do that since you have strip scar at the back

How abt putting SMP into these scarless gaps, this will be great..hope pilofocus spreads like a virus

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## didi

Spence is not easy man to impress, you cant fool an old fox like him..


yes he used to say 'once you cut you cut' BUT thats before Pilofocus arrived

from now one he wont be saying it



by the way he talks you can tell Spencer beleives more in  Dr Wesleys work than he does in Dr Ghos

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## Kiwi

> I don't understand why you are all excited about this Gho has been doing scarless surgery for years.


 Wake up man.

While Gho has been doing something for years he's been a greedy little piglet and hasn't shared it with the hairloss community. 

He's been paid 1000x over for his research it's time for the rest of the world to catch up and move on.

I actually hope this and Nigram leave Gho for dead. Only time will tell  :Smile:

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## 534623

> He's been paid 1000x over for his research it's time for the rest of the world to catch up and move on.


 Is there someone or something what stopped during the past 50 years the remainder in the hairloss industry to do something better or similar than just transplanting small skin grafts from A to B - as they do it still today?

And didn't you notice that just since Dr. Gho appeared with more conclusive evidence (scientifically and anecdotally due to independent patient reports) of his HST technique that ALL OF A SUDDEN some other clowns like Nigam claim to have "better solutions"?? All of a sudden ...

And are YOU someone of these 1000x times who paid Dr. Gho "something" for his research?

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## aim4hair

This is a great improvement to the current FUE technique. Scarless procedure is very important whether there is regeneration (like gho's HST) or there is no regeneration. It's time for patients to have the option of going through HT without losing the option of shaving their head and move on if things get worst along the line.
However, don't forget that dr. Wesley is a member of IAHRS so of course spencer will give this more attention regardless if it's better or worse than what Gho offers.

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

i think it should be scarless and doubling at the same time the gold standar ...


that is a good enaough solution for us the sufferrers if this is world wide avail the next year and have greater grafts done at a procedure.

when we will learn about scarless fue? how its done etc

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## UK Boy

> Is there someone or something what stopped during the past 50 years the remainder in the hairloss industry to do something better or similar than just transplanting small skin grafts from A to B - as they do it still today?
> 
> And didn't you notice that just since Dr. Gho appeared with more conclusive evidence (scientifically and anecdotally due to independent patient reports) of his HST technique that ALL OF A SUDDEN some other clowns like Nigam claim to have "better solutions"?? All of a sudden ...
> 
> And are YOU someone of these 1000x times who paid Dr. Gho "something" for his research?


 I gotta agree with Ironman on this one, it certainly appears as Dr. Gho's work has given the hair transplant industry the kick up the arse it needed. It's very likely that Dr.Wesley set out to provide scarless surgery because Dr.Gho said he could do it. However I also think Kiwi is tight, Gho chose making money for himself rather than changing the industry for everyone and that seems kinda selfish.

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## Zao

> I gotta agree with Ironman on this one, it certainly appears as Dr. Gho's work has given the hair transplant industry the kick up the arse it needed. It's very likely that Dr.Wesley set out to provide scarless surgery because Dr.Gho said he could do it. However I also think Kiwi is tight, Gho chose making money for himself rather than changing the industry for everyone and that seems kinda selfish.


 This is like the chicken or the egg argument. Let's face it, if it wasn't for Woods showing Spencer Kobren FUE we would not have it in The US or Europe  since Woods was also unwilling to share it with other doctors, and it was Kobren who pushed the concept and basically forced the hair transplant industry to take notice and start doing it.

If it were not for Woods and Kobren, Gho certainly would not be doing what he is doing. So who cares what prompted Wesley to invent this?  If it works it's great news for everyone, especially since he is going to share it.

Everyone should be very happy about this, including Ironman. If this works out, it will only prove to further support what Gho is doing, if it is at all similar, and make other techniques obsolete in time.

Let's keep this thread focused on what Wesley is doing and I hope Spencer will be able to share updates with us as soon as he can.

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## NeedHairASAP

I wonder how much wesley is charging.

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## didi

Just listened to the show and spencer said this technique is 'fkn mindblowing';
Dr Wesley is willing to share it with everyone, What a great doc

It can expand your donor by 25-30&#37;, it will allow doctors to be more adventurous with harvesting, you could extract hair outside safe zone

Say you are young guy  in 20s who is destined to become nw6 you could harvest hairs outside permanent safe zone and enjoy hair till 50s when it starts to thin out, in meantime you could shave and not worry abt white dots

It should be available before the end of this year

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## Winston

This is a thread was started by a user wanting to learn more more about Dr. Wesley's Pilofocus technique. 

As stated before, BTT intends to fully comply with Dr. Gho's request to discourage and moderate inappropriate, inaccurate, disparaging, intentionally argumentative and defamatory commentary concerning his colleagues, and other available hair restoration techniques (FUE/FUT) in relation to HST or Dr. Coen Gho himself.

Also, in direct response to Dr. Gho's request, all baseless and false accusations or disruptive posts on both HST related threads and non Gho/HST threads will no longer be hosted on baldtruthtalk.com

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## NeedHairASAP

I want to learn about Dr. Wesley's technique and why Spencer is advocating it. To me, it's similar, if not worse, circumstance as Gho, but Wesley seems to be getting the benefit of the doubt. I'd like to learn what about Dr. Wesley's technique and spencer's opinion.

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## hellouser

> Just listened to the show and spencer said this technique is 'fkn mindblowing';
> Dr Wesley is willing to share it with everyone, What a great doc
> 
> It can expand your donor by 25-30%, it will allow doctors to be more adventurous with harvesting, you could extract hair outside safe zone
> 
> Say you are young guy  in 20s who is destined to become nw6 you could harvest hairs outside permanent safe zone and enjoy hair till 50s when it starts to thin out, in meantime you could shave and not worry abt white dots
> 
> It should be available before the end of this year


 Unless theres donor regeneration/doubling/whaterver, I don't care about any of this news. So far from the replies in this thread it sounds like a clean FUE procedure (boring).

That said, in BLUNT SIMPLE TERMS, can someone tell me what Dr. Wesley's procedure does?

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## HARIRI

> Just listened to the show and spencer said this technique is 'fkn mindblowing';
> Dr Wesley is willing to share it with everyone, What a great doc
> 
> It can expand your donor by 25-30&#37;, it will allow doctors to be more adventurous with harvesting, you could extract hair outside safe zone
> 
> Say you are young guy  in 20s who is destined to become nw6 you could harvest hairs outside permanent safe zone and enjoy hair till 50s when it starts to thin out, in meantime you could shave and not worry abt white dots
> 
> It should be available before the end of this year


 Dr. Wesely is a man of ethics. Sharing this with everyone is a brave step with zero greed. God Bless you Carlos. I have a feeling that Acell is involved in his technique which will lead to regeneration of hair in the extracted area. I couldn't sleep well since watching the last episode. I thank God that I delayed my FUE session for my crown.  I think I will just stick with my strip scar revision performed by Feriduni and then in the vary future will go SOLID FUE for my revised scar and balding areas. I feel confident now to use my beard hair, I pray so much that Bisanga will apply Dr. Wesely technique one day. I think strip patients are very lucky now if this technique is successful and every patient who didn't have his FUE done yet. :-)

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## hellouser

> Unless theres donor regeneration/doubling/whaterver, I don't care about any of this news. So far from the replies in this thread it sounds like a clean FUE procedure (boring).
> 
> That said, in BLUNT SIMPLE TERMS, can someone tell me what Dr. Wesley's procedure does?


 Anyone? Anyone?

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## didi

http://www.pilofocus.com/technology.html


Its just scarless FUE...Imagine FUE with no scars and FUT yield

There are no details as to how its done

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## hellouser

> http://www.pilofocus.com/technology.html
> 
> 
> Its just scarless FUE...Imagine FUE with no scars and FUT yield
> 
> There are no details as to how its done


 Pft.

NEXT!

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## Artista

Didi listen to Spencer's live show from last Tuesday Ep. 69  4/9/13.

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## youngin

> Pft.
> 
> NEXT!


 Harvest all the usable hair from your body with 0 scarring. PFFT NEXT.  :Confused:

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## Artista

Youngin--



you should ALSO listen to Spencer's live show from last Tuesday Ep. 69 4/9/13.

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## youngin

> Youngin--
>  you should ALSO listen to Spencer's live show from last Tuesday Ep. 69 4/9/13.


 I did listen. I think its a great step forward giving people more options. I'm just mocking Hellouser.  :Big Grin:

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## Artista

LOL ok I'm glad You are not being negative as well. I can't wait to see what Dr Wesley's technic shows us. Spencer has seen it and spoke with the doctor. He came away from that very very impressed. Spencer is not one to promote any particular Treatment types So for him to sound as positively Impressed as he did Says a lot!

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## youngin

I think the guy who called in had the right idea. Probably has to do with a specific tool to go down into the existing follicle hole and remove the hair without punching a hole.

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## Artista

You must be referring to Sam. I remember That Sam spoke as if He factually knew what Dr. Wesley's New approach was. Of course no one on The Bald Truth Website forum really knows Except for Spencer and he cannot talk about the specifics. For Spencer to say That he was Very impressed and that this could be a game changer means a LOT. I am not criticizing Sam So don't get me wrong When I say That he is just speculating.  We all are

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## Zao

> For Spencer to say That he was Very impressed and that this could be a game changer means a LOT.


 I've been a listener since the late 90's and I have only heard Spencer state that the hair  transplant industry was in for a huge change two times. The first time was when he had one of Dr. Wood's patients come to his studio so he could inspect his hair transplant and after he did, he promised on the radio that  he will make sure that FUE is the future of hair transplants even though the industry turned its back on Woods, and threatened not to work with Spencer if he did so, and on last Tuesday's show talking about Dr. Wesley.

We all know Spencer made good on his FUE promise, so my money is on whatever Kobren says. I just hope that he still feels this way after he sees more evidence from Dr. Wesley, but like he said, there is no reason at this point not to believe what he saw.

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## Artista

Well said Zao! I am in agreement with you 100%

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## Ted

> I think the guy who called in had the right idea. Probably has to do with a specific tool to go down into the existing follicle hole and remove the hair without punching a hole.


 This would mean that you can only extract one hair at the time and not a whole graft

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## hellouser

> I did listen. I think its a great step forward giving people more options. I'm just mocking Hellouser.


 You mocking me has ZERO effect on me. So what if its scarless? That doesn't change the fact that everyone is still eventually completely SCREWED without a legitimate cure. Instead of pushing our way for the really WEAK baby steps, why are we not demanding that something is made available from Dr. Lauster's work? Or Tsuji? Or Aderans to hurry the fvck up?

You mentioned body hair as well. Ok, and how many people have enough body hair to add enough density? Is the procedure for body hair going to be completely out of reach as Dr. Umar's with his fvcking insane prices, $8 per graft and most of those grafts are SINGLE hairs? Problem with body hair is that often times HALF of the implanted grafts fail to grow.

Yeah, great that theres a small step forward... but the reality is still BULLSHIT.

Unless theres any kind of regeneration, this news is mostly MEH.

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## Dees Dab

> You mocking me has ZERO effect on me. So what if its scarless? That doesn't change the fact that everyone is still eventually completely SCREWED without a legitimate cure. Instead of pushing our way for the really WEAK baby steps, why are we not demanding that something is made available from Dr. Lauster's work? Or Tsuji? Or Aderans to hurry the fvck up?
> 
> You mentioned body hair as well. Ok, and how many people have enough body hair to add enough density? Is the procedure for body hair going to be completely out of reach as Dr. Umar's with his fvcking insane prices, $8 per graft and most of those grafts are SINGLE hairs? Problem with body hair is that often times HALF of the implanted grafts fail to grow.
> 
> Yeah, great that theres a small step forward... but the reality is still BULLSHIT.
> 
> Unless theres any kind of regeneration, this news is mostly MEH.


 Agreed, I am disgusted at some of the prices these guys charge. Everyone should complain.I got a quote for a FUE. With tax about 15 grand (3000 grafts)with no guarantee of good density, no guarantee of no white dots, kids doing the surgery, plenty of disclaimers, I could go on. 


Does anyone know what a rocket scientist or brain surgeon makes because I think these guys are closing the gap.

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## gc83uk

USA are lagging behind big time man. Pathetic

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## UK Boy

I think this is really exciting news, I actually had initial contact with Dr. Wesley's office weeks ago but have been taking my time to correspond with them cos I still feel scared about any hair transplant surgery and at the mo I can still style my hair to hide my hair loss but having heard Spencer's reaction to this has really made me happy. I totally get what you guys are saying - if it's just scarless then what's the big deal but this is huge to me, I have previously had keloid scarring so before this hair transplant was def not and option for me, people will say "well you could go to Gho then cos he does scarless" but Gho's scarless has not been officially proven and Gho even admitted in interview that his procedure does cause "a change" to the tissue in the follicle - so basically there is some fibrosis of tissue with Gho which could cause trouble for me. If Dr. Wesley's procedure is exactly as he claims then it 'should' be ok for me. I also have quite a lot of body hair so maybe I could use that instead of my donor. Plus did you not listen to Spencer - he said theoretically there should be the possibility of regeneration with this. If there is no scaring and regeneration plus recipient results to match FUT and this is shared with every hair doc how can you not see this as being HUGE! Everyone agrees that Doctors like Dr. Feriduni and Hasson and Wong do great hairline work with dense looking results - but they use traditional methods which cause scarring and no regeneration but imagine this treatment being done by them if it works as Spencer hopes it will. Of course we still want Histogen and Aderans to come out but this is gonna happen A LOT sooner and I think it's great news. 

So intrigued as to how Dr. Wesley does this.

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## gc83uk

> I think this is really exciting news, I actually had initial contact with Dr. Wesley's office weeks ago but have been taking my time to correspond with them cos I still feel scared about any hair transplant surgery and at the mo I can still style my hair to hide my hair loss but having heard Spencer's reaction to this has really made me happy. I totally get what you guys are saying - if it's just scarless then what's the big deal but this is huge to me, I have previously had keloid scarring so before this hair transplant was def not and option for me, people will say "well you could go to Gho then cos he does scarless" but Gho's scarless has not been officially proven and Gho even admitted in interview that his procedure does cause "a change" to the tissue in the follicle - so basically there is some fibrosis of tissue with Gho which could cause trouble for me. If Dr. Wesley's procedure is exactly as he claims then it 'should' be ok for me. I also have quite a lot of body hair so maybe I could use that instead of my donor. Plus did you not listen to Spencer - he said theoretically there should be the possibility of regeneration with this. If there is no scaring and regeneration plus recipient results to match FUT and this is shared with every hair doc how can you not see this as being HUGE! Everyone agrees that Doctors like Dr. Feriduni and Hasson and Wong do great hairline work with dense looking results - but they use traditional methods which cause scarring and no regeneration but imagine this treatment being done by them if it works as Spencer hopes it will. Of course we still want Histogen and Aderans to come out but this is gonna happen A LOT sooner and I think it's great news. 
> 
> So intrigued as to how Dr. Wesley does this.


 UK Boy your condition intrigues me.

I have scarring alopecia, which according to one doctor maybe still active making me unsuitable for a tranplant because it may re-start my condition.  I decided to take a calculated risk and go for HST. I've had 3 hst's so far. And planning my 4th later this year.

Please tell me why you would consider pilofocus over HST especially as your from the UK? I'm intrigued. Am I missing something?

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## DepressedByHairLoss

> You mocking me has ZERO effect on me. So what if its scarless? That doesn't change the fact that everyone is still eventually completely SCREWED without a legitimate cure. Instead of pushing our way for the really WEAK baby steps, why are we not demanding that something is made available from Dr. Lauster's work? Or Tsuji? Or Aderans to hurry the fvck up?
> 
> You mentioned body hair as well. Ok, and how many people have enough body hair to add enough density? Is the procedure for body hair going to be completely out of reach as Dr. Umar's with his fvcking insane prices, $8 per graft and most of those grafts are SINGLE hairs? Problem with body hair is that often times HALF of the implanted grafts fail to grow.
> 
> Yeah, great that theres a small step forward... but the reality is still BULLSHIT.
> 
> Unless theres any kind of regeneration, this news is mostly MEH.


 Amen Hellouser, I totally agree with you.  Although I do applaud Dr. Wesley for bringing innovation to a field that has been sorely lacking in innovation for the longest time, a traditional hair transplant (with or without a scar) is still a very limited procedure that cannot give anyone anything close to a full head of hair.  And these body and beard hair transplants are just an absolute joke.  I don't think they'd even appeal to 5% of hair loss sufferers.  We really need a non- or minimally-invasive hair regrowth procedure that actually stimulates regrowth of hair follicles and doesn't just simply move them from one place to another.

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## UK Boy

> UK Boy your condition intrigues me.
> 
> I have scarring alopecia, which according to one doctor maybe still active making me unsuitable for a tranplant because it may re-start my condition.  I decided to take a calculated risk and go for HST. I've had 3 hst's so far. And planning my 4th later this year.
> 
> Please tell me why you would consider pilofocus over HST especially as your from the UK? I'm intrigued. Am I missing something?


 I understand your query totally GC, it would be a lot easier for me to have a procedure with HASCI in the UK, London isn't far at all. I was particularly interested in HSI and originally thought that was the treatment you had had. I know yours isn't HSI but rather HST but sligtly different when it comes to placement in the recipient.

I've been emailing Deborah who informed me HSI is still some years away so my initial reaction was to hold off for that. I recently emailed Deborah to ask if she thought HST would be safe for me and she asked to see pictures of the keloid scarring I suffered to gauge the severity. Thing is my keloid scarring happed after an operation over 12 years ago and I had the scars treated but it was an ordeal  - first steroid injections that didn't work, then the keloids removed surgically with radiation therapy to avoid them returning but they still did in one area but these were luckily treated with steriod injections. I'm still waiting to see what Deborah says but the fact that they wanted to know the severity makes me think that there is still a risk of keloids occuring with HST.

From what Spencer says in the latest show Dr. Wesley is claiming no absolutely no scarring and he's going though clinical trails to prove it. I still don't know for sure but I will have a Skype consultation with him to see what he thinks.

Incidentally it was your individual case that got me to contact HASCI so thank you for all the time and information you've put into the forum and I'm glad you've had such goood results.

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## NeedHairASAP

still not clear on why spencer thinks wesley's is scarless, but ghos leaves micro scarring.

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## Kiwi

> still not clear on why spencer thinks wesley's is scarless, but ghos leaves micro scarring.


 There are lots of things that you're not clear on. Why tell us your problems... or just "ask" politely what the differences are. 

Maybe Spencer would participate on threads if people were not so ****ing hostile and such dick heads.

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## HARIRI

> still not clear on why spencer thinks wesley's is scarless, but ghos leaves micro scarring.


 OH pls Buddy, don't mention GHO name in this thread. A big fight will occur again by the GHO advocates  :EEK!: 

Anyways its a good question though. What I know is that Dr. Gho takes the graft split it into two, one part to be implanted in the recipient slit (balding area) and the other implanted back to the donor slit. It is an easy concept but slow and time consuming.

However Dr. Wesely's technique totally different. I have been thinking about it since last Tuesday and couldn't get any clue. Maybe there is a genius member right here that can crack the code.

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## NeedHairASAP

> OH pls Buddy, don't mention GHO name in this thread. A big fight will occur again by the GHO advocates 
> 
> Anyways its a good question though. What I know is that Dr. Gho takes the graft split it into two, one part to be implanted in the recipient slit (balding area) and the other implanted back to the donor slit. It is an easy concept but slow and time consuming.
> 
> However Dr. Wesely's technique totally different. I have been thinking about it since last Tuesday and couldn't get any clue. Maybe there is a genius member right here that can crack the code. Spencer knows about it but doesn't want to share it


 It doesn't sound like you understand what Gho is doing. Please stop mis-informing. I know you're not doing it on purpose, but you are doing it.


anyway, I would love to hear how Dr. Wesley's technique works. I highly doubt its "totally different" other than it doesn't offer regeneration.

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## UK Boy

Spencer implied Dr. Wesley was 'truly' scarless as in no scaring - not even micro scaring like Gho. I'm interested in your last paragraph though where you say you're not allowed to mention something, is that implying that you've spoken to Dr. Wesley and know more but are not allowed to divulge?

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## PayDay

> still not clear on why spencer thinks wesley's is scarless, but ghos leaves micro scarring.


 How can it not be clear when it was Gho who described the micro scarring during the last Kobren/Gho interview?  

Kobren is obviously privy to what Dr. Wesley is doing and is impressed. So what's the issue with that? He was privy to what Gho was doing and let us know about the micro scarring even before Gho discussed it, which leads me to believe that he knows what he's talking about when it comes to this new technique. Also, I never remember him saying that micro scarring was such a bad thing, so what's the issue? 

Kiwi makes a great point, your hostility is uncalled for and completely counterproductive. Grow up!

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## UK Boy

I've been going through old discussions of Dr. Wesley's technique, there was quite a lot back in 2011 when he first asked for trial participants. A couple of guys who saw his presentation then gave some info about the technique. It sounds like it could have aspects of HASCI's HSI technique because they said the grafts spend literally only minutes outside the body and there's very little trauma to the follicles. If it wasn't for the fact that everyone acts as if it's something completely different I would assume he's doing the same kinda thing as Gho, would explain why Spencer thinks that theoretically there could be regen. Arista back in Jan you said you were going to arrange a chat with Dr.Wesley, did you do so? Any hints that you can give about the technique?

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## 67mph

...are we all about to have Kim Jong Un hair styles?

On a serious note, this seems like a nice big step in the right direction, good luck Dr Wesley, good luck everyone.

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## HARIRI

I think Dr. Wesely technique is simply 

(Invivo without hole but by plucking partial follicle with twizer)  :Big Grin: 

I hope I am right one day. Been thinking of it long time.

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## PayDay

This might give us some clues on how it works:

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20130096600

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## youngin

Nice find!!!

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

thats explains everything wow,
thanks

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## youngin

Low down is: Incision made in skin, machine goes underneath the skin, ultrasound camera on top, graft is removed from underneath the skin and sucked out into a container. Looks like the container might separate the grafts by mass for the surgeon. Badass! Time for Spencer to talk now  :Smile:

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## youngin

GAME CHANGER for hair surgery. This could be incredible combined with something like Nigams donor doubling (if he proves it 100%).

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

hair transplant industry is going to change soon brothers and we will be benefited a lot

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## Ted

Seems great! 

Has Dr. Wesley said anything about how fast the procedure is compared to regular fue?
I also wonder how he knows how deep he should put the grafts and in what direction when he doesn't have the hair strand to guide him.

I really hope this gets successful!

----------


## PayDay

> Low down is: Incision made in skin, machine goes underneath the skin, ultrasound camera on top, graft is removed from underneath the skin and sucked out into a container. Looks like the container might separate the grafts by mass for the surgeon. Badass! Time for Spencer to talk now


 Badass is the word! Kobren called it once again and I think this is extremely exciting!

This is the best of all worlds. It's scarless and it will make blind harvesting FUE from the outside obsolete. This is really a big deal!

----------


## The Alchemist

> Badass is the word! Kobren called it once again and I think this is extremely exciting!
> 
> This is the best of all worlds. It's scarless and it will make blind harvesting FUE from the outside obsolete. This is really a big deal!


 

I must say, it's a pretty innovative approach!   Should be the KO punch for big ear to ear smiley scars and for the scattered white dotting of FUE.   And from the sounds of it, yields should increase by significant amount.  And no head shaving necessary for the procedure.

This is definitely a step in the right direction.  Still need to overcome the limited donor supply issue though.  Would love to see Dr Nigam nail it, but, i'm still highly sceptical of him and not expecting much.  Time will tell.  But this is great!

----------


## youngin

> Seems great! 
> 
> Has Dr. Wesley said anything about how fast the procedure is compared to regular fue?
> I also wonder how he knows how deep he should put the grafts and in what direction when he doesn't have the hair strand to guide him.
> 
> I really hope this gets successful!


 The grafts still have the hairs attached. He just pulls them out from underneath.

----------


## Ted

> The grafts still have the hairs attached. He just pulls them out from underneath.


 I see. Thanks for clarifying!

Edit
Even the part of the hair strand that is above the skin surface?
In that case I guess you have to shave

----------


## J_B_Davis

This is groundbreaking beyond what I had imagined. Brilliant!

----------


## J_B_Davis

I think the most impressive part of this is that blind FUE harvesting will be a thing of the past. Doctors will be able to actually see the entire hair follicle and cut out the most important part from the bottom up without damaging it. It makes total sense. Much more sense than going in blind and leaving visible scars on the skin. Very impressive!

----------


## stayhopeful

Guys, I am a major HT newb, can anyone offer a concise analysis of what exactly this innovation means?  Will it result in more natural looking hairline and expanded donor supply?  I want to know if this will be possible to repair my hairline as soon as this comes out, assuming histogen provides convincing evidence that it is effective and for sure coming to market in 3 years

----------


## 534623

> This might give us some clues on how it works:
> 
> http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20130096600


 *"[0170] After the desired number of intact FUs have been effectively removed from the patient, the barrier device and endoscope 1100 may be removed from the visual cavity beneath the patient's scalp. Afterwards, the incision into which the endoscope and its attachments were introduced is sutured closed using, for example, 5-0 nylon sutures in a continuous running suture so as to leave a nearly imperceptible scar in a hidden post-auricular zone. The scar may be linear, curved, lobular, zig-zag, radiate, or other shape."*

No war without "collateral damage" - _IF_ this leaves the only "collateral damage".

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Guys, I am a major HT newb, can anyone offer a concise analysis of what exactly this innovation means?  Will it result in more natural looking hairline and expanded donor supply?  I want to know if this will be possible to repair my hairline as soon as this comes out, assuming histogen provides convincing evidence that it is effective and for sure coming to market in 3 years


 This.

What's so good about scarless fue?

----------


## HARIRI

PayDay, you have successfully decoded Dr. Wesley's scareless technique. Good job Buddy. It makes now a lot of sense. Its indeed a breakthrough although it leaves scars but nealry imperceptible. I would like to see the opinion of top FUE surgeons like Dr. Bisanga, Dr. Koray Erdogan, Dr. Feriduni and Dr. Lorenzo about this one.

534623 makes a sense here, No war without "collateral damage"  :Big Grin:

----------


## Kiwi

> What's so good about scarless fue?


 you're an idiot - scarless FUE is going to become the gold standard of FUE.... you should Gho away and stop being such a party pooper. You know there is a Gho thread for Gho fanboys... you should Gho away now.

----------


## Dees Dab

> *"[0170] After the desired number of intact FUs have been effectively removed from the patient, the barrier device and endoscope 1100 may be removed from the visual cavity beneath the patient's scalp. Afterwards, the incision into which the endoscope and its attachments were introduced is sutured closed using, for example, 5-0 nylon sutures in a continuous running suture so as to leave a nearly imperceptible scar in a hidden post-auricular zone. The scar may be linear, curved, lobular, zig-zag, radiate, or other shape."*
> 
> No war without "collateral damage" - _IF_ this leaves the only "collateral damage".


 Maybe not scarless after all. And how big is this possible scar? O.K, where is the best hidden post-auricular zone on your head? I prefer my scar a lightning bolt if possible. 

Still, light years ahead of the ear to ear scar and white dotting mothra. Good to see advances are coming and butchering is going.

----------


## Jasari

> Maybe not scarless after all. And how big is this possible scar? O.K, where is the best hidden post-auricular zone on your head? I prefer my scar a lightning bolt if possible. 
> 
> Still, light years ahead of the ear to ear scar and white dotting mothra. Good to see advances are coming and butchering is going.


 I've had a regular FUE treatment and the scars are essentially invisible with a shaved head. I'm guessing any scarring with Dr. Wesley's treatment will be invisible to the naked eye.

My question regarding the treatment is whether this version of FUE can be performed as fast as regular FUT - That would be brilliant. If it can also extract upwards of 4000 grafts in a treatment that would be even better.

----------


## Ted

Anyone know how much this will cost and how much a normal fue costs with Dr. Wesley?

----------


## youngin

> My question regarding the treatment is whether this version of FUE can be performed as fast as regular FUT - That would be brilliant. If it can also extract upwards of 4000 grafts in a treatment that would be even better.


 It has the potential to be as fast as FUT. I think Spencer mentioned that Dr Wesley said he would be able to get the same amount of grafts as FUT. Seems like a great system. Have assisstants load the hairs into Choi implanter pens as you go and just knock that shit out in no time  :Smile:

----------


## PayDay

> PayDay, you have successfully decoded Dr. Wesley's scareless technique. Good job Buddy. It makes now a lot of sense. Its indeed a breakthrough although it leaves scars but nealry imperceptible. I would like to see the opinion of top FUE surgeons like Dr. Bisanga, Dr. Koray Erdogan, Dr. Feriduni and Dr. Lorenzo about this one.
> 
> 534623 makes a sense here, No war without "collateral damage"


 From what I can understand from the patent there will be no scars where the grafts are removed. I'm assuming the scar being described would be a tiny scar probably a centimeter or so where the tool enters to go under the scalp. I'm sure most people can live with that knowing that the doctor has complete visibility of what they are doing and that they can still shave their heads in the future if they want to. Most people have a nick or two on their heads anyway. This is a huge advancement if it works well.

----------


## ejj

I wonder if this machine when burrowing under the scalp has the ability to move up and over, and around the tissue and vessels it will encounter in its path. Just because you may not be able to see tissue trauma does not mean it has not occurred.

I think I will pass on this one.

Regards

ejj

----------


## youngin

> I wonder if this machine when burrowing under the scalp has the ability to move up and over, and around the tissue and vessels it will encounter in its path. Just because you may not be able to see tissue trauma does not mean it has not occurred.
> 
> I think I will pass on this one.
> 
> Regards
> 
> ejj


 Pass before you even know how it works? lol. Then move on. It will be a superior method if it comes to fruition.

----------


## kaandereli

We should also learn if regeneration takes place and by what percentage

Hope this advancement compels other doctors to dump old fue

----------


## youngin

> We should also learn if regeneration takes place and by what percentage
> 
> Hope this advancement compels other doctors to dump old fue


 Very very doubtful. I'm almost 100% certain no regeneration would occur. All stem cell areas will be taken with the hair. In Gho's or Nigam's technique they can bisect it in vivo or in vitro and separate the stem cell areas to double the follicle.

----------


## 534623

> I wonder if this *machine when burrowing under the scalp has the ability to move up and over, and around the tissue and vessels it will encounter in its path.* Just because you may not be able to see tissue trauma [at the skin's surface] does not mean it has not occurred.


 I didn't read all patent claims in detail (so I'm not 100&#37; sure) - but THAT'S what I understand how this approach should (basically) work:

Contrary to the removal of the grafts/FU's from above the skin's surface (simply making incisions with a hollow punch/needle in the skin and pulling out the grafts thereafter) - they extract the grafts from BELOW the skin's surface.

Indeed, interesting approach, but I think the whole procedure (extraction of the grafts from BELOW the skin) may -eventually- cause *more trauma and scar tissue below the skin*, than removal of the grafts simply at the skin's surface.
If I understand it right, the "endoscope including the attached devices" (to make the follicle bulbs visible in the subcutaneous layer AND to extract the grafts via suction) must always "tunnel" under the skin - from one graft to the other and so on. To avoid this, they blow up the whole donor area like a balloon. That means, the whole scalp must be detached from the skull during the whole process and the healing process (as soon as "balloon-step" is over) is questionably. Furthermore, everybody knows that  the follicle bulbs in the subcutaneous layer are all randomly splayed-apart in this layer. That means, the person who extracts the grafts from below the skin doesn't know which bulb belongs to which graft/FUE to keep the integrity of a certain and real "follicular unit".

These are just my first thoughts.

----------


## ejj

> Pass before you even know how it works? lol. Then move on. It will be a superior method if it comes to fruition.


 
Highly doubt it. The material associated with the patent show how it works, enough to form an opinion, as I have. 

ejj

----------


## PayDay

> I didn't read all patent claims in detail (so I'm not 100% sure) - but THAT'S what I understand how this approach should (basically) work:
> 
> Contrary to the removal of the grafts/FU's from above the skin's surface (simply making incisions with a hollow punch/needle in the skin and pulling out the grafts thereafter) - they extract the grafts from BELOW the skin's surface.
> 
> Indeed, interesting approach, but I think the whole procedure (extraction of the grafts from BELOW the skin) may -eventually- cause *more trauma and scar tissue below the skin*, than removal of the grafts simply at the skin's surface.
> If I understand it right, the "endoscope including the attached devices" (to make the follicle bulbs visible in the subcutaneous layer AND to extract the grafts via suction) must always "tunnel" under the skin - from one graft to the other and so on. To avoid this, they blow up the whole donor area like a balloon. That means, the whole scalp must be detached from the skull during the whole process and the healing process (as soon as "balloon-step" is over) is questionably. Furthermore, everybody knows that  the follicle bulbs in the subcutaneous layer are all randomly splayed-apart in this layer. That means, the person who extracts the grafts from below the skin doesn't know which bulb belongs to which graft/FUE to keep the integrity of a certain and real "follicular unit".
> 
> These are just my first thoughts.


 You actually have some good points and food for thought here, but I'm hoping that Dr. Wesley has a full understanding of the anatomy of the scalp and has looked at all possible roadblocks or potential complications when it comes to using this instrument.

It's going to be interesting to see how things unfold.

----------


## Joker

This approach seems quite invasive and I'm not entirely sold on it. I also have no idea why Spencer thought this could possibly lead to donor regeneration. This procedure does not seem to comport with any of the theories advanced by Gho, Nigam or Cole. Seems silly that we have to wait for the big unveil now that the patent had been published. I wish Dr. Wesley could come address our concerns.

----------


## PayDay

> This approach seems quite invasive and I'm not entirely sold on it. I also have no idea why Spencer thought this could possibly lead to donor regeneration. This procedure does not seem to comport with any of the theories advanced by Gho, Nigam or Cole. Seems silly that we have to wait for the big unveil now that the patent had been published. I wish Dr. Wesley could come address our concerns.


 It doesn't seem any more invasive than say liposuction of the chin, but in the end if there is no visible scaring and all of the follicles can be removed without damage, it seems to be a superior form of FUE.

The only thing I can think of concerning regeneration is that it might be easier, since you can actually see the hair bulbs, to remove a small amount of tissue and cells  and leave the rest to regenerate. 

Hey, like Spencer said, it might not work the way it was presented at all, but it does seem very impressive at this point.

----------


## 534623

> I also have no idea why Spencer thought *this could possibly lead to donor regeneration*.


 Ohhhhh, this just depends on WHAT EXACTLY they extract from below the skin.

According to the patent claims, they always try to extract follicles "INTACT" - that's the reason why I highlighted this part ("INTACT FOLLICLES") in my previous posts. Intact follicles simply means "intact follicles" - that means, everything is still attached to the HAIR SHAFTS like the complete follicle bulb (including the DP), the complete inner- and outer root sheaths, as well as the dermal sheaths (the glassy outermost layer which surrounds every single follicle). In simple words, ALL hair producing cells.

A really cool approach would be the following (patented by IronMan):

Instead of simply plucking out hair shafts (hair follicle stem cells are still attached to plucked hair shafts!!) from above the skin's surface - simply leave the dead and coarse hair shafts behind in the skin, and "_pluck in_" and remove all the remaining parts/hair follicle producing follicle tissue/cells from below the skin.

That means, you would see absolutely NOTHING at the skin's surface after the procedure (there is not even the need to shave the donor area!), because you only extract hair follicle producing tissue from BELOW the skin's surface, while the HAIR SHAFTS itself (including the still attached follicular stem cells) still stick in the skin.

In more simple words ...

... doing exactly what Dr. Gho is doing - but everything just from BELOW the skin. Doing this is -in theory- not unrealistic at all, because with SUCH an approach, you just "denude" somewhat the dead and coarse hair shafts below the skin (just to get enough follicle tissue from them), while the dead coarse hair shafts itself still stick in the skin. The still attached follicle tissue to the hair shafts, will completely regenerate the follicle (very fast!) in the donor area, and the extracted grafts/follicle tissue (these grafts do not contain the dead and coarse hair shafts as you can clearly see them in normal extracted FUE grafts!) will produce also hair (after implantation) in the recipient area.

----------


## stayhopeful

> Ohhhhh, this just depends on WHAT EXACTLY they extract from below the skin.
> 
> According to the patent claims, they always try to extract follicles "INTACT" - that's the reason why I highlighted this part ("INTACT FOLLICLES") in my previous posts. Intact follicles simply means "intact follicles" - that means, everything is still attached to the HAIR SHAFTS like the complete follicle bulb (including the DP), the complete inner- and outer root sheaths, as well as the dermal sheaths (the glassy outermost layer which surrounds every single follicle). In simple words, ALL hair producing cells.
> 
> A really cool approach would be the following (patented by IronMan):
> 
> Instead of simply plucking out hair shafts (hair follicle stem cells are still attached to plucked hair shafts!!) from above the skin's surface - simply leave the dead and coarse hair shafts behind in the skin, and "_pluck in_" and remove all the remaining parts/hair follicle producing follicle tissue/cells from below the skin.
> 
> That means, you would see absolutely NOTHING at the skin's surface after the procedure (there is not even the need to shave the donor area!), because you only extract hair follicle producing tissue from BELOW the skin's surface, while the HAIR SHAFTS itself (including the still attached follicular stem cells) still stick in the skin.
> ...


 Waiiit..  Are you saying this will expand donor supply?

----------


## Joker

IM, I think I understand what you're saying. That is something we really need an answer on ASAP. Dr. Wesley should read up on the Gho technique and its applicability to this new process.

----------


## youngin

Do not become hopeful about this donor doubling idea. Nothing in the patent says the machine will have enough control to stop after the stem cell bulge at the bottom of the follicle and CUT the hair. Everything in the patent refers to punching and pulling out the whole hair.

----------


## Joker

I'm not hopeful that it will work, but I think you may want to read the patent again. Section 100 states that incisions of variable size and locations may be made. I'm just wondering if there are enough stem cells in the dissected portion to regrow a hair without an additive (like Nigam uses). Perhaps IM can address this.

----------


## youngin

> I'm not hopeful that it will work, but I think you may want to read the patent again. Section 100 states that incisions of variable size and locations may be made. I'm just wondering if there are enough stem cells in the dissected portion to regrow a hair without an additive (like Nigam uses). Perhaps IM can address this.


 Section 100 is referring to the incision made to put the tool under your scalp.

----------


## Follicle Death Row

Bloody hell! I had thought about this type of way of doing it before but didn't actually think it was possible. Fantastic!!!

So in short, laproscopic follicle removal. Nice, very nice. Sounds quite labour intensive but a damn sight better than current methods. Will follow this closely.

----------


## 534623

> Waiiit..  Are you saying *this* will expand donor supply?


 That depends on what exactly do you mean with "this".

Anyway, whatever you try (Wesley's removal of INTACT follicles or partial removal FROM UNDER THE SKIN - so-called "follicular unit splay" in the subcutaneous layer (fat layer) ....


...causes the biggest hurdles. When you look at the pic above, to remove/extract follicular units (FU's) from BELOW the skin (!) - doing this could, in fact, require bigger extraction tools to grasp all follicle bulbs intact from below the skin.

----------


## hellouser

I still don't get why so many of you guys are so excited with this when theres no regeneration and we're still limited by about 6,000 grafts (on average) of donor grafts?

All this does is give scarless results, which Rahal/H&W/Gho have already achieved. So whats the big deal?

----------


## aim4hair

> I still don't get why so many of you guys are so excited with this when theres no regeneration and we're still limited by about 6,000 grafts (on average) of donor grafts?
> 
> All this does is give scarless results, which *Rahal/H&W*/Gho have already achieved. So whats the big deal?


 What do you mean Rahal and H&W achieved this ?
H&W only do FUT (strip), and Rahal does traditional HTs (FUT, FUE)..

----------


## 534623

> Sorry your English language doesn't work. I didn't say FOLLICULAR BULGE. I said "stem cell bulge at the bottom" rephrased to mean *"bulge of stem cells at the bottom"*. Do you want me to define the word BULGE for you? Trolling piece of shit.


 No - that's necessary, because there simply is no such thing like "bulge of stem cells at the bottom" of hair follicles nor a "stem cell bulge at the bottom" of hair follicles.

----------


## youngin

> All this does is give scarless results, which Rahal/H&W/Gho have already achieved. So whats the big deal?


 Rahal and H&W can do scarless?????? Its exciting cause its innovative. It's probably faster and more accurate than traditional FUE. Which hopefully means cheaper.

----------


## youngin

> No - that's necessary, because there simply is no such thing like "bulge of stem cells at the bottom" of hair follicles nor a "stem cell bulge at the bottom" of hair follicles.


 There are obviously stem cells at the bottom, which I referred to as a bulge. I'm so sorry you disliked my wording.

----------


## hellouser

> What do you mean Rahal and H&W achieved this ?
> H&W only do FUT (strip), and Rahal does traditional HTs (FUT, FUE)..


 AFAIK, H&W and Rahal do FUE with minimal scarring (or unnoticeable anyway).

Seriously, who gives a FVCK if we're still limited, this is NOT a solution to AGA.

----------


## PayDay

> I still don't get why so many of you guys are so excited with this when theres no regeneration and we're still limited by about 6,000 grafts (on average) of donor grafts?
> 
> All this does is give scarless results, which Rahal/H&W/Gho have already achieved. So whats the big deal?


 Neither H&W or Rahal claim to give scarless results and Gho still cuts blindly from the outside of the scalp, but leaves very minimal scars from what I can tell.

I'm also assuming that it is easier to punch through the fat  from under the follicles with a blunt tool especially  when you have full visibility, which lessons the likelihood of transection. The surgeon might be able to maneuver the splayed follicle into a blunt punch easier and not cause any damage. There is also some suction involved according to the patent so maybe this helps to straighten the splay once it is cut a little? 

I would think that boring in from the top blindly would make extraction of a  whole or a specific part of the follicle even more difficult than coming from under it with full visibility.

----------


## amadeus

> Do not become hopeful about this donor doubling idea. Nothing in the patent says the machine will have enough control to stop after the stem cell bulge at the bottom of the follicle and CUT the hair. Everything in the patent refers to punching and pulling out the whole hair.


 I really hate to agree with Ironman :Smile: , but I think this is what Spencer was eluding to when he said that theoretically there could be regeneration. It makes perfect sense.  This part of the surgery does not have to be listed on the patent. It really has nothing to do with the device itself. 

Fingers crossed! With or without regeneration this is major!

----------


## Follicle Death Row

> I still don't get why so many of you guys are so excited with this when theres no regeneration and we're still limited by about 6,000 grafts (on average) of donor grafts?
> 
> All this does is give scarless results, which Rahal/H&W/Gho have already achieved. So whats the big deal?


 I think a lot of people would be suitable for more than 6000. Consider a donor area of 7cm x 32cm = 224cm2. Let's assume a donor density of 85fu/cm2. That gives 19040FU. I think because of the cluster of scarring and white dotting with traditional FUE you can push it to about 35% extraction or 6664. Let's say 6500. I do believe past this and the donor is shot. With this new method surface scarring will be eliminated so we don't need to worry about the clustering unsightly effect. I think 45% extraction might look not so bad. So 8568 may be possible.

So I'm guessing we're looking at maybe an increase from say 6000 to 8000. But that's just a guess. We'll have to wait and see.

----------


## Breaking Bald

Kind of off topic, but I wonder if a device like this, if it is truly scar less will be used for hair removal from unwanted areas?? Like something more effective than electrolysis.

----------


## hellouser

> I think a lot of people would be suitable for more than 6000. Consider a donor area of 7cm x 32cm = 224cm2. Let's assume a donor density of 85fu/cm2. That gives 19040FU. I think because of the cluster of scarring and white dotting with traditional FUE you can push it to about 35% extraction or 6664. Let's say 6500. I do believe past this and the donor is shot. With this new method surface scarring will be eliminated so we don't need to worry about the clustering unsightly effect. I think 45% extraction might look not so bad. So 8568 may be possible.
> 
> So I'm guessing we're looking at maybe an increase from say 6000 to 8000. But that's just a guess. We'll have to wait and see.


 That sounds good, but still unacceptable in 2013. Full out cure should have been a reality at least a decade ago.

That said, Gho should use this technique and increase the number of grafts per session for complete reversal. If even half the grafts regenerate out of 8,000, then we still have another 4,000 to use for a combined 12,000 grafts. That alone is ALMOST complete coverage for a full NW7

Average balding around is between 250-300cm2. For decent density, at 50 grafts/cm2, you need 15,000 grafts. At 250cm2, 12,500 grafts.

Its a damn shame Gho isnt doing much lessen the need for 7 visits over a span of 5+ years to get complete reversal with his HST method.

Regardless and I'll repeat, unacceptable in 2013.... ALL of todays methods and findings. Cure should have been here A LONG TIME AGO. To boast about these small incremental improvements is to fall privy to naivety and ignorance.

----------


## PayDay

> That sounds good, but still unacceptable in 2013. Full out cure should have been a reality at least a decade ago.
> 
> That said, Gho should use this technique and increase the number of grafts per session for complete reversal. If even half the grafts regenerate out of 8,000, then we still have another 4,000 to use for a combined 12,000 grafts. That alone is ALMOST complete coverage for a full NW7
> 
> Average balding around is between 250-300cm2. For decent density, at 50 grafts/cm2, you need 15,000 grafts. At 250cm2, 12,500 grafts.
> 
> Its a damn shame Gho isnt doing much lessen the need for 7 visits over a span of 5+ years to get complete reversal with his HST method.
> 
> Regardless and I'll repeat, unacceptable in 2013.... ALL of todays methods and findings. Cure should have been here A LONG TIME AGO. To boast about these small incremental improvements is to fall privy to naivety and ignorance.


 With all do respect, there is no point to hammering your opinion of where we should be in terms of a "cure", since this is where we are, and to be so negative about such a huge leap  is just a waste of all of our time. Let's stay focused on the positives shall we. This type of negativity is getting so old. 

This could be a wonderful treatment if it works well. If it's not good enough for you, then I guess you'll just have to figure something else out. It's unacceptable to all of us that there in no cure in 2013, why do you think we are on this forum?

----------


## hellouser

> With all do respect, there is no point to hammering your opinion of where we should be in terms of a "cure", since this is where we are, and to be so negative about such a huge leap  is just a waste of all of our time. Let's stay focused on the positives shall we. This type of negativity is getting so old. 
> 
> This could be a wonderful treatment if it works well. If it's not good enough for you, then I guess you'll just have to figure something else out. It's unacceptable to all of us that there in no cure in 2013, why do you think we are on this forum?


 I didnt say the procedure is unacceptable, or least meant that, I am trying to paint the picture that this only being available NOW while all other solutions are not, is unacceptable. I'm an NW3 myself so I could definitely get an HT or HST, but thats not important in the grand scheme of things since there are MANY men that have been CHEATED with the long-overdue proper treatment.

And no, this isnt a huge leap. Aderans being released today would be a huge step.

This is just incremental, nothing more, a bandaid to a much larger problem.

----------


## Jasari

> It has the potential to be as fast as FUT. I think Spencer mentioned that Dr Wesley said he would be able to get the same amount of grafts as FUT. Seems like a great system. Have assisstants load the hairs into Choi implanter pens as you go and just knock that shit out in no time


 In that regard due to the ease of use it should be cheaper than FUE and hopefully on par with FUT - If the cost is something ridiculous like $7 per graft then it really won't be too big of a step forward.

----------


## topcat

Sure this might be the next best thing since sliced bread but just as many have learned if you read history you don’t want to be the first to try something and you want to see a body of work showing results that warrant the excitement I see in this thread.

So yeah if it works great but more often than not it's about making money from your patented device and yes people that own the patents would love to share the technology with everyone the more the better that's why they own the patent.

Desperation often results in not liking to have to read or deal with reality.

----------


## 534623

> I didn't read all patent claims in detail (so I'm not 100&#37; sure) - but THAT'S what I understand how this approach should (basically) work:


 Okay, at the moment I'm "studing" Dr. Wesley's patent in detail, and as far as I can ascertain - seems I was right with my first thoughts ...

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpos...7&postcount=85

For example, this is *basically* the "main approach" or "main idea" or "main difference", contrary to traditional FUE:
*
"20. The system of claim 14, wherein the extraction module is configured to subcutaneously extract a hair follicle."*

That means, everything happens basically from BELOW the skin.

Furthermore, as you can read in the quote above, the extraction of the follicles/grafts happens "*subcutaneously*". That means in the layer below the dermis, which contains all the bigger blood vessels and nerves (which are also connected to ALL hair follicles in the whole donor area!) - what caused my first "headaches" after reading that ...

Now I try to figure out how Dr. Wesley tries to overcome these and some other "hurdles" with this (pretty interesting) approach ...

----------


## 534623

> Okay, at the moment I'm "studing" Dr. Wesley's patent in detail, and as far as I can ascertain - seems I was right with my first thoughts ...


 UPDATE
At the moment, I stopped reading, because I got even more headaches... :Embarrassment: 

Anyway, IF I'm not completely wrong - everything sounds so far like creating a huge, bloody "massacre" under the skin to get the follicles/FU's from below the skin; because there is, of course, ALWAYS cutting necessary through the whole  donor area to 1) separate the tissue layers (to always get a big enough  "cavity" for all the needed tools which must "tunnel" below the skin/between tissue layers) and finally 2) cutting out the follicles/grafts from below the skin.

For example, to get a big enough cavity enlarged under the skin for all the needed tools under the skin:

*"[0104] For example, the enlarged visual cavity may be created by 

- humidified insufflation, 
- external traction, 
- or balloon expansion."* 

So I wonder what degree of "trauma" just this action causes blow the skin - besides all the necessary cutting steps.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

On the other hand, maybe everything "just sounds more dramatic" than it is ...

----------


## The Alchemist

> UPDATE
> At the moment, I stopped reading, because I got even more headaches...
> 
> Anyway, IF I'm not completely wrong - everything sounds so far like creating a huge, bloody "massacre" under the skin to get the follicles/FU's from below the skin; because there is, of course, ALWAYS cutting necessary through the whole  donor area to 1) separate the tissue layers (to always get a big enough  "cavity" for all the needed tools which must "tunnel" below the skin/between tissue layers) and finally 2) cutting out the follicles/grafts from below the skin.
> 
> For example, to get a big enough cavity enlarged under the skin for all the needed tools under the skin:
> 
> *"[0104] For example, the enlarged visual cavity may be created by 
> 
> ...


 
Plastic surgeons routinely detach skin from it's underlying stuctures in facial cosmetic surgery with no problems what so ever.  If it's a non issue for someone's face, then i highly doubt it will be a problem for the back of a head; even more so when you consider the area is obscured with hair.

Will be interesting to see the results from his trials.

----------


## 534623

> *Plastic surgeons routinely detach skin from it's underlying stuctures in facial cosmetic surgery with no problems what so ever.*  If it's a non issue for someone's face, then i highly doubt it will be a problem for the back of a head; even more so when you consider the area is obscured with hair.


 Sure, you're right - they do similar procedures every day. BUT to the best of my knowledge,  even these rather "harmless" procedures cause very often unpredictable complications and damage - shit happens EVERY DAY in the hands of plastic surgeons -you just can't read about all these (true) stories, because all these "plastic surgeons" try always to avoid -in advance and mostly with lots of money involved-  these stories to appear in public.

Anyway - here are the good news and the last patent claim:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_[0193] "Other advantages of the system described herein include 

- the reduction or elimination of residual scarring,
- elimination of the need for a patient to shave their head in preparation for the procedure, 
- reduction of recovery time and discomfort, 
- decrease in the incidence of infection, and 
- decreased trauma to the underlying vasculature.

Further, this procedure is available and appropriate for a larger patient population, as patients with same-color hair and skin, curly hair, and those who do not wish to shave their heads are now candidates for hair follicle harvesting."_
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I have NO DOUBTS about most of the claims - but the thingy in red is still a big questionmark... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## 534623

> I have NO DOUBTS about most of the claims - but the thingy in red is still a big questionmark...


 Ops - I forgot to mention the most important part ...

Here is what I think about Dr. Wesley's work:

http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...-Box/focus.gif

----------


## john2399

> Ops - I forgot to mention the most important part ...
> 
> Here is what I think about Dr. Wesley's work:
> 
> http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...-Box/focus.gif


 lol thats a good one

----------


## JJJJrS

I don't know how well this method will work in practice but it does sound very interesting in theory. The idea of extracting the grafts beneath the skin and with the instruments described is very interesting. If you can 1. ensure no/minimal visible scarring and 2. "unblind" the FUE extraction process, like Dr. Wesley claims, then the benefits are huge, especially if it's going to be shared with the hair restoration community. Although the attention has been on scarlessness, unblinding the FUE process is equally as important in my opinion. Such a device could drastically improve the survival rates and yield of FUE procedures.

So the questions I have are:

1. How labour intensive/seamless is the extraction process? Is there any chance that the instrumentation could increase the number of grafts that can be extracted by FUE in a session? 

2. At some point, the instrument has to penetrate the skin. In addition, if I understand things correctly, the instrument has to be able to traverse under the skin. What type of trauma/scarring will this cause?

3. Spencer had eluded to possible donor regeneration. This is the most exciting part to me. Technically, such instruments should be compatible with partial follicular extractions, as described by Gho and in academic literatue. In fact, it could drastically improve the practicality of the techniques by unblinding the extraction process. Is there any more information on this, i.e., has Dr. Wesley tested this out? I think it would be great if Spencer could get Dr. Wesley in touch with Dr. Gho. Both would benefit from this.

----------


## Follicle Death Row

Won't be much of a problem creating the cavity. The layers are well defined and they should be able to get in there pretty easily. Have a look at dissection videos on youtube. Visualising the follicles is actually not that hard.

----------


## Zao

Spencer brought FUE to the U.S and Europe which changed the hair transplant industry forever and if he is getting behind this, then this is a huge innovation. There is no question about it.

I don't think it would even matter if he brought Wesley and Gho together, since I have a feeling that Spencer sees much more potential with this technique. He has been talking about Gho on TBT since I've been listening and he has never spoken with the same kind of confidence that he did about Woods' FUE and now Wesley's new technique. This is a big deal!

----------


## 534623

> Such a device could drastically improve the survival rates and yield of FUE procedures.


 Indeed, this point is also mentioned in the patent - but you will be surprised when a read on which (old) principles the improvement is based (read below)... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 




> So the questions I have are:
> 
> 1. How labour intensive/seamless is the extraction process? Is there any chance that the instrumentation could increase the number of grafts that can be extracted by FUE in a session?


 It appears that all this just depends on how fast the user is able to move the devices (endoscope including all the other attached devices) beneath the patient's skin as well as depending on the follicle structrue beneath a patient's skin which varies from patient to patient. And NO - you can't "increase" a certain follicle number for extractions within a given ("safe") donor area. This point is also mentioned in the patent. That means, everything is basically the same as with traditional FUE - the difference is only that you extract the follicles from beneath the skin instead of from above the skin's surface. So you can't "increase" a certain number of follicles you have.




> 2. At some point, the instrument has to penetrate the skin. In addition, if I understand things correctly, the instrument has to be able to traverse under the skin. What type of trauma/scarring will this cause?


 This is snippet from the patent:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
[0013] 
Without cutting or altering the overlying skin surface, the design described herein enables a precisely-controlled extraction/harvest of desired tissue that accounts for the borders of the desired tissue, the angle and direction of the tissue (e.g. hair follicle) as it is positioned beneath the skin surface, and the depth of penetration of the desired tissue *all while effectively avoiding inclusion of undesirable surrounding tissue in the harvest or injuring vital vessels or nerve plexes in the process.* 
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
THAT is the claim I highly doubt ... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 




> 3. Spencer had eluded to possible donor regeneration. This is the most exciting part to me.


 "Donor regeneration" can't happen with this technique, because the main focus of this technique is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
[0011] The technique described herein allows for: 

1) the *isolation of an intact hair follicle with maximal tissue (both dermal and subcutaneous) surrounding the stem cell-containing portion of the follicle* without traumatizing the overlying skin surface;

[0192] … Further, for hair follicle harvesting for subsequent transplantation, the system can described herein *can include a larger amount of vital tissue structure around the hair follicle during extraction, which will enhance follicle viability and survival.*
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

According to these patent claims, a main focus of this technique is also to remove MAXIMAL TISSUE around the hair follicles, to enhance follicle viability and survival. In simple words - to get rather very "chubby" FUT grafts and NOT extremely "skinny" (HST) grafts.

----------


## Ted

Edit..............

----------


## Dees Dab

O.K. trying to guess how can the donor regenerate. If Dr Nigam can perfect his doubling technique invitro with safety, can they insert one fu in donor under the skin or must they make a slit on the skin like traditinal FUE, I  quess that would require shaving the donor? 

One advantage is almost no failed/transected extractions in the harvesting process.

----------


## Follicle Death Row

I think if you followed a hair restoration plan using Pilofocus for the bulk of the job (say conservatively popping 6000 on top, maybe more) and then looked into Cooley's plucking then you could top up some density potentially and have a really nice non scarring result.

Spencer seems very positive about Pilofocus. Also in Cooley's presentation, it did look like his plucking technique was having some efficacy (at least to my eyes anyway) with the key there being that the plucked hair has to be placed beside healthy terminal DHT resistant hair.

Might be an interesting combo for the maximum result.

----------


## Artista

> Spencer brought FUE to the U.S and Europe which changed the hair transplant industry forever and if he is getting behind this, then this is a huge innovation. There is no question about it.
> 
> I don't think it would even matter if he brought Wesley and Gho together, since I have a feeling that Spencer sees much more potential with this technique. He has been talking about Gho on TBT since I've been listening and he has never spoken with the same kind of confidence that he did about Woods' FUE and now Wesley's new technique. This is a big deal!


 Excuse me Zao but Spencer DID NOT 'bring FUE to the US/Europe' he merely REPORTED  it to all of us.
Of course Spencer had expressed how impressed he was with FUE and he was roundly CRITICIZED for it too.   
FUE eventually DID turn out to be as innovative as Spencer viewed  it to be.  Keep in mind, regardless to what the 'haters have said in the past, Spencer has *ALWAYS BEEN RESPECTFULLY OBJECTIVE* in his reporting here at BTT/TBT.
So for him to express his genuine excitement for Dr Wesley's new approach as he has done  for FUE surgery goes a long way.

----------


## Zao

> Excuse me Zao but Spencer DID NOT 'bring FUE to the US/Europe' he merely REPORTED  it to all of us.
> Of course Spencer had expressed how impressed he was with FUE and he was roundly CRITICIZED for it too.   
> FUE eventually DID turn out to be as innovative as Spencer viewed  it to be.  Keep in mind, regardless to what the 'haters have said in the past, Spencer has *ALWAYS BEEN RESPECTFULLY OBJECTIVE* in his reporting here at BTT/TBT.
> So for him to express his genuine excitement for Dr Wesley's new approach as he has done  for FUE surgery goes a long way.


 Actually Artista, Spencer did much more than "merely" report about FUE. I've been listing to TBT since the late 90s. I remember a show when Dr. Feller discussed how Kobren  not only  introduced U.S.  doctors to it but described Woods' FUE to him and several other doctors including Dr. Cole because Dr. Woods would not share it with them. 
They would not have experimented with it if Spencer didn't  push it and shed light on it. I think Spencer deserves much more credit than just saying he reported on it.

----------


## Artista

Zao, My main point is this - "...regardless to what the 'haters have said in the past, Spencer has ALWAYS BEEN RESPECTFULLY OBJECTIVE in his reporting here at BTT/TBT.
So for him to express his genuine excitement for Dr Wesley's new approach as he has done for FUE surgery goes a long way."

----------


## Shan

Spencer is the man!!!

----------


## Zao

> Zao, My main point is this - "...regardless to what the 'haters have said in the past, Spencer has ALWAYS BEEN RESPECTFULLY OBJECTIVE in his reporting here at BTT/TBT.
> So for him to express his genuine excitement for Dr Wesley's new approach as he has done for FUE surgery goes a long way."


 I agree  Artista, but I think if  people understood the real history of  the hair transplants and Spencer's integral role in all of the advancements he would't  have any "haters" :Smile:  When I first started listening most doctors were not  even doing FUT. They were doing plugs and mini grafts and Spencer single handedly changed that so that everyone did FUT.  I remember another show when Dr. Feller said that too and so did Dr. Bernstein (my doctor). 

I'm a super fan because of how he changed my life and I have followed him ever since.  I believe that we would still be seeing most doctors doing mini and micro grafts and no FUE if it was not for Spencer Kobren and Dr. Gho and Dr. Wesley would have never started doing FUE if Spencer didn't make it a priority for everyone to learn, that's the truth. So his haters are just ignorant and should really be thanking him. If I were Spencer I would have said **** you to these jerks a long time ago, but he just keeps helping all of us. He is a great man and I think he deserves credit where credit is due. I don't know where I would be if I hadn't found him and that is the truth.

----------


## JJJJrS

> And NO - you can't "increase" a certain follicle number for extractions within a given ("safe") donor area. This point is also mentioned in the patent. That means, everything is basically the same as with traditional FUE - the difference is only that you extract the follicles from beneath the skin instead of from above the skin's surface. So you can't "increase" a certain number of follicles you have.


 I think you can be a little more liberal working outside the safe area if there's no scarring. But I didn't mean increasing the safe donor area, which can only really be done with donor regeneration, but rather increasing the number of grafts for an average FUE session.

For example, if you reduce the scarring and trauma and if the instruments simplify the extraction process, then there is a possibility you can extract more grafts per session than a standard FUE procedure, which is typically limited due to labour and trauma.





> Spencer brought FUE to the U.S and Europe which changed the hair transplant industry forever and if he is getting behind this, then this is a huge innovation. There is no question about it.
> 
> I don't think it would even matter if he brought Wesley and Gho together, since I have a feeling that Spencer sees much more potential with this technique. He has been talking about Gho on TBT since I've been listening and he has never spoken with the same kind of confidence that he did about Woods' FUE and now Wesley's new technique. This is a big deal!


 As great as a scarless procedure and unblinding the FUE extraction process is, donor regeneration is still the "holy grail" of hair transplants. There's no mention of donor regeneration in the patent but Spencer has mentioned this possibility on his show.

I respect Dr. Wesley's work. Anybody trying to move this slow industry forward deserves praise. But if you can theoretically tailor his instrument to include some donor regeneration as well, then you have a huge game changer and the best of both worlds.

----------


## Zao

> As great as a scarless procedure and unblinding the FUE extraction process is, donor regeneration is still the "holy grail" of hair transplants. There's no mention of donor regeneration in the patent but Spencer has mentioned this possibility on his show.
> 
> I respect Dr. Wesley's work. Anybody trying to move this slow industry forward deserves praise. But if you can theoretically tailor his instrument to include some donor regeneration as well, then you have a huge game changer and the best of both worlds.


 This is a patent for an instrument, why would it include anything about regeneration? When you file a patent you file it in the broadest terms possible. If Spencer says that there is a theoretical possibility that there can be regeneration, I'm sure he knows something that we don't and that is not included in the patent. 

If he's betting on Wesley, there is good reason and I would trust his instincts over anything else.

----------


## 534623

> I think you can be a little more liberal *working outside the safe area* if there's no scarring.


 Of course, you can do this - as you can do this with normal FUE also. But exactly there is the problem:

You can do this - if you're fully aware about that you can also end up once upon a time ....

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpos...0&postcount=52

... like the guys in the pic. 
You will lose all these hairs also, if transplanted, in the recipient area.




> For example, if you reduce the scarring and trauma and if the instruments simplify the extraction process, then there is a possibility you can extract more grafts per session than a standard FUE procedure, which is typically limited due to labour and trauma.


 Nope. Why should Dr. Wesley's technique be lesser labour and trauma intensive? I can't find not even 1 reason why and how this could happen.

Concerning "trauma" and "scarring":
So everything just happens beneath the skin - contrary to normal FUE.
And contrary to FUE everything what remains (should remain) intact, is just the the very thin (in comparison) *stratum corneum layer* - the most superficial layer of the epidermis. In simple words, the only (very thin) reason, why you will not see anything at the skin's surface thereafter. That's the only (very thin) argument contrary to normal FUE ...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
[0095] ... In endoscopic surgical hair restoration, or piloscopy, individual intact hair follicles or follicular units are removed *with minimal or no disruption of the stratum corneum* 210 by an endoscopic device inserted beneath the scalp. 

[0096] Referring to FIG. 2, a cross-section of a hair follicle 202 shows the native tissue surrounding a hair follicle 202. Spanning three separate layers of the skin--an epidermis 204, a dermis 206, and a fat-containing, subcutaneous layer 208--the follicle 202 protrudes through the skin surface at *the most superficial layer of the epidermis 204, the stratum corneum* 210. The intact hair follicle 202 includes the components that enable self-renewal of the follicle after it is transplanted into viable autologous tissue. 
The two critical regions in which stem cells abound are 

- a bulge region 212 located near an erector pilli muscle 226 and 
- a follicular bulb 214 which contains a dermal papilla 216.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

All that means, that, of course, exactly the same happens in the skin, as with normal FUE. The only difference, concerning "removal of tissue" is that with Wesley's technique the very thin (in comparison) stratum corneum layer remains completely intact - you know, the most superficial layer of the skin which you can touch with your fingers.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
Everything below this thin (keratinized) layer will be removed as with normal FUE. And as soon as lots of tissue is removed in the skin, this gap/hole or whatever you call it in the skin after removal of the grafts, will be REPLACED - with what exactly? 
With air? Milk? Honey? Water? Right - SCAR TISSUE (fibrous tissue) - sorry, what else ...

----------


## Joker

Now that the cat's out of the bag, I really wish Dr. Wesley or Spencer would get in here with some facts. 

At this point, I tend to agree with Iron Man that Dr. Wesley's procedure is going to produce A LOT more trauma than FUE (even if it is not visible). I also can't see how any of this could even theoretically lead to donor regeneration, although I really hope Dr. Wesley has some plans in place to try and get follicles to regrow.  

There HAS to be some information we are lacking.

----------


## Artista

Hey there members, At this present time Dr Wesley has NOT presented his findings nor has he shared any of his photographic proof relating specifically to his 'Scar-less' technique. He WILL be doing that soon. 
Speculation is normal but dont make any decisions on the outcomes until Dr Wesley HIMSELF  provides ALL of the information. 
Im not stating that anyone here is wrong in their assessments BUT none of us are 100&#37; educated on all of the facts as yet.
 Lets be fair-minded about this.  Negative connotations may be viewed as facts by others and that is not fair.

----------


## Carlos Wesley, MD

Hello, everyone. Thank you, again, for all of your interest in this topic.  You can start to see why this has continued to capture my passion, hold my dedication, and inspire all of my "after hours" work since I began development of this technique over five years ago.  The questions and concerns that many of you raised are good ones and issues that I and the increasing members of my team at Pilofocus have continued to address and optimize prior to the official disclosure of our product.

A primary maxim in medicine, _Primum non nocere_, or "First, do no harm," drives every decision as we bring the pilosocpe from bench to bedside.  Advancing the development of this project carefully over the many years has helped ensure that our device and the novel approach used are both safe and effective when made available.  Earning approval from both the Investigational Review Board (IRB) before we performed the clinical trials and the Food & Drug Administration (FDA) before making this available to all patients are essential steps that are not to be compromised.

I would also like to thank the numerous patients of mine for their respectful discretion over the months and years.  Even after learning all of the exciting details and witnessing the evolving functionality of our novel technique (which eclipse any formal patent), those patients who came in for an in-depth discussion with me remained, and continue to remain, respectfully discrete (whether they opted for FUT, FUE, or to participate in the next clinical trial).  I do look forward to sharing the full details with the community.  Therefore, I applied for a formal presentation to my fellow physicians at this October's ISHRS Conference in San Francisco, CA.  Hope to meet a few of you there!

----------


## Artista

Dr. Wesley,, THANK YOU  so much for your contribution to this thread. 
I look forward to your presentation in October 2013.
 (MY Birthday month by the way! ) Based on just how impressed Spencer was with your technique certainly means a lot to us all.   All my best to you (and US too )

----------


## UK Boy

Sorry but I am so disappointed to hear this news, I've been away so only just read all about the patent. This procedure sounds horrendous - fishing around under the scalp, using balloons to stretch the scalp etc. It sounds horribly invasive, much more so than FUE. And it's not scarless, the scars are just 'hidden'. I agree with all of what Ironman says in regards to the procedure. I'll give Dr. Wesley the credit that it's definitely innovative but this does not appeal to me at all and I was really interested in it before. Back to hoping for Dr. Gho's HSI along with Histogen etc. For me then.

----------


## stayhopeful

Wait this still needs to go through full clinical trials... How long is that supposed to take?

----------


## HARIRI

> Sorry but I am so disappointed to hear this news, I've been away so only just read all about the patent. This procedure sounds horrendous - fishing around under the scalp, using balloons to stretch the scalp etc. It sounds horribly invasive, much more so than FUE. And it's not scarless, the scars are just 'hidden'. I agree with all of what Ironman says in regards to the procedure. I'll give Dr. Wesley the credit that it's definitely innovative but this does not appeal to me at all and I was really interested in it before. Back to hoping for Dr. Gho's HSI along with Histogen etc. For me then.


 I second my vote with Ironman this time. It does not worth it really. This type of surgeries does really have collateral damage. I would just go for talented FUE surgeons like Bisanga who use 0.7mm-0.8mm punch tools. Its much safer and guaranteed. After all Spencer is right, Once you are CUT you are CUT  :Frown:

----------


## stayhopeful

> I second my vote with Ironman this time. It does not worth it really. This type of surgeries does really have collateral damage. I would just go for talented FUE surgeons like Bisanga who use 0.7mm-0.8mm punch tools. Its much safer and guaranteed. After all Spencer is right, Once you are CUT you are CUT


 No offense, but I think you two are overreacting a bit.. My judgement rest with Dr. Wesley who claims the procedure is the least invasive, and Spence who alludes this is revolutionary

----------


## youngin

Wow. Iron Man brings the drama and everyone gets sucked right in. Show me somewhere that says the ballooning will happen every time please. Of course there will be SOME scar tissue where the skin is punched. Under the skin where its not visible. The patent also shows a way to select different sizes of punches. Did you not read Dr Wesley's post? Do you really think he would invest alot of money in this and go through FDA approval if the procedure left worse damage than FUT or FUE? And I guess Spencer (who at this point knows more than us about it) was just teasing us all. Quit being pessimistic. Does no one understand that patents are claims for much more possibilities than what you may actually use?? The tool may look entirely different than we think.

----------


## Artista

Stayhopeful, I have to agree with you..*NOBODY KNOWS* any specific details as yet regarding Dr Wesley's ( & company ) new innovative 'scar-less' technique. No one should make judgement calls here until that time when we are all *100% informed* of it . THEN  you can FAIRLY add your personal opinions on it. Until then it is very much ONLY speculation! 
 Dr Wesley has respectfully stated here on BTT  that he _WILL_ be sharing his *'Pilofocus'*  findings and technique at October's ISHRS Conference in San Francisco, CA. 
I am hoping that this new technique might possibly do away with strip surgery--BUT I DO NOT KNOW and it is only an expression of  hope. 
Basically if his *'Pilocofus'* method can successfully yield the same amount of grafts that an FUT can , as mentioned in theoretic conversations, then why would anyone stick with a SCARRING strip method? 
Dr Wesley , i apologize if I am being too verbose on this.

----------


## Artista

Youngin--another response of* COMMONSENSE* !! Thank you my BTT/TBT  brother !!!

----------


## youngin

> Youngin--another response of* COMMONSENSE* !! Thank you my BTT/TBT  brother !!!


  :Smile:  Yes lets continue to use our brains and common sense Arista.

----------


## PayDay

> I second my vote with Ironman this time. It does not worth it really. This type of surgeries does really have collateral damage. I would just go for talented FUE surgeons like Bisanga who use 0.7mm-0.8mm punch tools. Its much safer and guaranteed. After all Spencer is right, Once you are CUT you are CUT


 First of all, like youngin said, do you really think that Dr. Wesley intends on causing more damage than current FUE methods? That's ludicrous! His technique  would never take off and he would never be able to sell his device. His years of research and development would be a complete waste it of time.

@ Hariri  aren't you the guy who signed up with Nigam? Based on that fact I think that your judgment is somewhat questionable (no offense). If I were you I would probably rethink going to Nigam and wait till you have the facts before judging Wesley's technique.

----------


## 534623

> Yes lets continue to use our brains and common sense Arista.


 I think thats a good idea. 

The following pic shows the difference....

...between traditional FUE (either full-thickness extraction method or FIT with plucked proximal parts) versus Dr. Wesley's Pilifocus technique, as very detailed described in his patent.

So lets use YOUR brains and common sense and explain how can you extract/remove such grafts 

 *from beneath the skins surface*.


without leaving any scarring *beneath the skin*?  :Confused: 

How big must be the tool(s) for extraction *beneath the follicle bulbs* to get such grafts?

And how can you extract follicles/grafts *from beneath the skin*

if the follicles are curly or even wavy in the skin?

----------


## Artista

Winston,,i want to THANK YOU for what you have done recently and for your due diligence in keeping BTT topics CIVIL.

----------


## youngin

Another useless and misleading Iron Man post. No one said there wouldn't be scarring beneath the skin. It would obviously be a superior technique for curly hair, read the damn patent. Quit asking stupid questions that are answered in it.

----------


## Artista

From Dr Wesley's website: 
Claims that he plans to backup with factual DATA in October...
1) Demands a high surgical skill level 	
2) Maximal transplanted hair survival by minimizing FU transection upon harvesting 	
3) Eliminates the stigma of small punctate scars 	
4) Broadens patient candidacy* (curly hair)*  
5) Easy and comfortable post-operative recovery process as compared to "strip" surgery 	
6) Patients can wear their hair at any length they would like prior to surgery 	
7) Eliminates folliculitis from "buried" grafts 	
8) Subsequent surgeries are not hampered by fibrotic tissue from a prior session 	
9) FU are immediately stored in a viability-enhancing solution. 	
10) The handling of FU is limited to only gentle placement; thus enhancing survival 	
11) The protective tissue around each FU is maximized; thus enhancing survival. 	
12) Careful selection is the specific type and caliber of FU can be achieved; thus tailoring each session to fit the patients needs

 "An initial clinical trial was conducted during the fall of 2011. The clinical trial had three (3) main objectives. To demonstrate:

A) This surgical approach is safe for patients.
B) There is no visual evidence of scarring in the donor area from which the hair follicles are harvested.
C) The survival of the transplanted hair follicles harvested by this novel technique are as good if not better than the current methods of hair follicle harvesting: follicular unit extraction (FUE) and the traditional strip harvest (FUT).

You can speculate all you want-pro or con but WAIT until you hear directly from this respected Doctor before you decide that it wont work or that it will be ineffective. 
Carlos is a good man and Spencer is a good man. This very well MAY BE a good thing.

----------


## 534623

> So let’s use YOUR brains and common sense and explain how can you extract/remove such grafts …
> 
> 
> …without leaving any scarring *beneath the skin*?


 And I have an additional question ...

*"The current relatively-invasive surgical approaches are also accompanied by a 4.7&#37; complication rate, which include: enlarged scars, necrosis (dead tissue) in the donor area, hematomas, prolonged nerve hypersensitivity, and infection."*

... because I have the following problem with tissue removal beneath the skin:

*Surgical anatomy*
_"The five layers of the scalp, from superficial to deep, can be easily memorized by using the mnemonic SCALP. The Skin of the scalp is the thickest of the human body [increases in thickness from the frontal to the occipital region], measuring up to 8 mm in thickness and contains approximately 100.000 hairs. 
Hair lines make scalp reconstruction difficult because the hair lines have to be respected to get a satisfying aesthetic result.[3] The subCutis is a layer of fat, enclosed in compartments formed by rigid fibrous septa. Their inelasticy prevents bleeding vessels to collapse and retract under the skin to achieve haemostasis. All large blood vessels and nerves of the scalp are located in this layer.[4] The next layer [below the subCutis] is the galea Aponeurotica, which separates the underlying bone and the overlying layers. The large blood vessels and nerves of the scalp don’t pierce this layer.[3] Loose connective tissue between the periostium and the aponeurosis makes these two rigid structures easily slide over each other and contributes to skin movement. Thus, if vascular and nervous anatomy is respected, the skin, subcutaneous tissue and galea aponeurotica can be lifted off the skull with minimal bleeding, nerve damage, or chance of necrosis. This method was first described by Orticochea in 1967, but has been updated to minimize scarring.[5] The fifth layer is the Periosteum of the skull, also referred to as pericranium. It can be separated from the skull, except near the sutures. The skull consists of an inner and outer table, with spongy bone in between known as diplo&#235;."_

That means, even if "subcutaneous tissue and galea aponeurotica can be lifted off the skull with minimal bleeding" (to get the "visual cavity" for the tools enlarged by techniques like "humidified insufflation, external traction, or balloon expansion") - you must always CUT (or drill) through all large blood vessels and nerves which are located above these layers - in the *subCutis*, to get the grafts. 

That would mean (besides damaging large blood vessels and nerves), that grafts would have lots of tissue attached beneath the follicle bulbs - which adds absolutely nothing for hair growth in the recipient area. 

But that's actually not what Dr. Wesley describes in his patent (lifting off the skull the subcutaneous tissue and galea aponeurotica layer to prevent damage to the vessels and nerves) ...

This is what he describes ...
*"20. The system of claim 14, wherein the extraction module is configured to subcutaneously extract a hair follicle."* 

... namely, movements of the tools as well as extraction of hair follicles straight within and through the large blood vessels and nerves containing *subCutis layer*!  And doing this, can cause:

- enlarged scars, 
- necrosis (dead tissue) in the donor area, 
- hematomas, 
- prolonged nerve hypersensitivity, 
- and infection.

----------


## Artista

Interested in finding out?  
Dr Wesley's words-
*"I applied for a formal presentation to my fellow physicians at this October's ISHRS Conference in San Francisco, CA. Hope to meet a few of you there!"_*_________________
*Carlos Wesley, MD*

If its possible, i will be there!! 
Winston,,hopefully your still keeping an eye on this thread

----------


## 534623

> Interested in finding out?  
> Dr Wesley's words-
> *"I applied for a formal presentation to my fellow physicians at this October's ISHRS Conference in San Francisco, CA. Hope to meet a few of you there!"_*_________________
> *Carlos Wesley, MD*


 And that's exactly the reason, why I try to discuss everything *IN ADVANCE* what's already known about this NOVEL technique. 

To address some concerns IN ADVANCE - I don't think this is a bad thing.

*"Criticism is healthy!"*  :Smile:

----------


## UK Boy

I never said anything about Dr. Wesley's approach being ineffective, I said it was innovative but it's not for me and I think to call it scarless is a falsity. Just because the scarring is all nicely hidden away does not make it scarless and does not make it applicable to my situation in the way I hoped it would. I also personally find the idea of someone poking around under my scalp far more invasive than minimal depth FUE like HST/HSI. I don't nerd to wait to hear more info from Dr. Wesley, I know enough from the patent to know that I find the concept scary and not something I'd be inclined to do.

----------


## Artista

Spencer,admins, fellow members, 
I want to tell you all that , today, *Dr Wesley* and I have had a great private conversation this morning!  
I would like to publicly state that i am in total AGREEMENT with Spencer Kobren's explanation,his impressions and his analysis of what Dr Wesley's upcoming new procedure will provide to us all. 
Dr Wesley was _VERY_ gracious to include me into that same power point presentation of his 'scar-less' technique  as he had with Spencer.  
I promised Dr Wesley that I would not talk about the specifics but he did allow me to let you all know of our discussion and how i have been completely and truly _IMPRESSED_. This WILL BE a *'Game Changer'* my friends. There is no doubt in my mind of that. 
When you all see the public presentation you too will be impressed, excited and happy!! 
 Thank you Dr Wesley for talking with me, for being so innovative in your research and for all the time spent on refining your instrumentation and technique!!  (its on-going)

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

at least something good  :Smile:  thanks,

Artista my friend , does this method give more of what? (scarless ok,yield?,density?,donour possibilities?)  
if ofcourse you can share any info like that, :Embarrassment:

----------


## Artista

Hello 'Young , I cannot be specific But I can say This new technique will potentially provide a high-yield and density to the recipient areas of your head comparable to FUT surgery! (Without the use of a strip ) And just to repeat what Spencer had said before, there IS anecdotal evidence to show  the possibility of regenerative regrowth In the donor areas too!!  I am well aware of why that is , I promise you!  Don't let negative speculation rule your thought process on this. Dr. Wesley will make it all very clear to everyone in due time. I am extremely and sincerely excited my friends. Hang in there.. I am

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

we will ,, so that makes me choose to wait and if i am going to have ht to have this new one ofcourse  :Smile: 

i feel positive  :Smile:  :Smile:

----------


## john2399

Im guessing you can't tell us the price range of the procedure right?

----------


## stayhopeful

> Spencer,admins, fellow members, 
> I want to tell you all that , today, *Dr Wesley* and I have had a great private conversation this morning!  
> I would like to publicly state that i am in total AGREEMENT with Spencer Kobren's explanation,his impressions and his analysis of what Dr Wesley's upcoming new procedure will provide to us all. 
> Dr Wesley was _VERY_ gracious to include me into that same power point presentation of his 'scar-less' technique  as he had with Spencer.  
> I promised Dr Wesley that I would not talk about the specifics but he did allow me to let you all know of our discussion and how i have been completely and truly _IMPRESSED_. This WILL BE a *'Game Changer'* my friends. There is no doubt in my mind of that. 
> When you all see the public presentation you too will be impressed, excited and happy!! 
>  Thank you Dr Wesley for talking with me, for being so innovative in your research and for all the time spent on refining your instrumentation and technique!!  (its on-going)


 Artista,

I hope this is as great as you say because this is riling us all up and I hate to get my hopes let down.... As a 22 year old I am very curious how this procedure would benefit me because I refuse to take propecia or minox.... Something tells me that the combo of scarless FUE and histogen (pray they launch phase iii) will be effectively a cure for all of us to get back in the game and even the playing field with anyone out there.
Any word on when this will become commercially available?  In the next 1-2 years or is it far off?

----------


## HARIRI

Great news Artista, Now that you know all the secrets of this technique, Is part of what 534623 saying in his last thread is right? "humidified insufflation, external traction, or balloon expansion" because honestly I WOULD NOT want to get any of these scary techniques...

----------


## Artista

HARIRI, it was a special honor to be allowed to speak frankly with Dr Wesley. I am not at liberty to be specific but I can say this my friend, those concerns that you have would not be an issue regarding Dr Wesley's approach.  I have no idea of the eventual cost guys. We will all find that out later on. Dr Wesley is truly passionate about this new technique of his and it shows in the results thus far.  I'm very positive about this too

----------


## john2399

> HARIRI, it was a special honor to be allowed to speak frankly with Dr Wesley. I am not at liberty to be specific but I can say this my friend, those concerns that you have would not be an issue regarding Dr Wesley's approach.  I have no idea of the eventual cost guys. We will all find that out later on. Dr Wesley is truly passionate about this new technique of his and it shows in the results thus far.  I'm very positive about this too


 Did he say when we can get it done? 2013?

----------


## Artista

Possibly later this year according to what Spencer had provided us. Keep in mind that Dr Wesley will be making his presentation at the October conference.

----------


## Artista

To my true members here, remember what I said earlier today?   "...Don't let negative speculation rule your thought process on this. Dr. Wesley will make it all very clear to everyone in due time".  That was a FACTUAL statement of mine .

----------


## PayDay

> To my true members here, remember what I said earlier today?   "...Don't let negative speculation rule your thought process on this. Dr. Wesley will make it all very clear to everyone in due time".  That was a FACTUAL statement of mine .


 Believe me Artista,  most reasonable members here know that your being truthful!  I know that this can only be a good thing, I  just wish I got to see what you saw.  What was it that convinced you most that this is the real deal?

----------


## Artista

FACTUAL data Payday , factual data. I appreciate your candor

----------


## JJJJrS

> And just to repeat what Spencer had said before, there IS anecdotal evidence to show  the possibility of regenerative regrowth In the donor areas too!!  I am well aware of why that is , I promise you!


 I know you don't want to reveal too much from your private conversation, but would it be possible to elaborate at all on this point? Did Dr. Wesley mention donor regeneration as a possibility and was there any evidence of donor regeneration in his powerpoint presentation?

Again, I know you want to respect confidentiality, so please only share what you're comfortable sharing.

----------


## Artista

Hi JJJJ  I appreciate your friendly request for a bit more info. 
I dont feel that i can elaborate specifically on any of the specifics. Thank you for understanding. 
Ill tell you this much, when I was shown how donor regeneration was possible I was excited because I have already had some insight on the particulars.   I am glad to have  to have been brought into a discussion with Dr Wesley specifically about Pilofocus' 'scar-less' technique my friends.
Ive been so upbeat since yesterday guys. 
This  will be a 'Game Changer' as Spencer has defined it to be. Keep in mind that Spencer Kobren is pressured to  stay unbiased on TBT/BTT  when it comes to all treatments and treatment possibilities.

----------


## Artista

Please excuse my earlier bad grammar-"... specifically on any of the specifics" 
LOL-i had just woke up drinking my first coffee of the day prior to posting..

----------


## topcat

I wish all the best with new procedure and hope it works out. Something I would like Dr. Wesley to seriously consider in absolutely not offering this procedure to anyone less than 35 years of age. I believe young guys are just too desperate and there is just too much risk to cause damage both physically and psychologically with unproven techniques as it has happened to many of us who have been around. Maybe once the procedure has proven itself with at 1000 patients the age requirement can be lowered. With more age comes a better understanding of risk along with hopefully being better equipped mentally if things dont go as planned. Makes sense wouldnt you agree?

----------


## Phatalis

> Hi JJJJ  I appreciate your friendly request for a bit more info. 
> I dont feel that i can elaborate specifically on any of the specifics. Thank you for understanding. 
> Ill tell you this much, when I was shown how donor regeneration was possible I was excited because I have already had some insight on the particulars.   I am glad to have  to have been brought into a discussion with Dr Wesley specifically about Pilofocus' 'scar-less' technique my friends.
> Ive been so upbeat since yesterday guys. 
> This  will be a 'Game Changer' as Spencer has defined it to be. Keep in mind that Spencer Kobren is pressured to  stay unbiased on TBT/BTT  when it comes to all treatments and treatment possibilities.


 I'm gonna be honest. This whole... non-transparency thing in the hair industry is absolutely ****ing retarded.

"i'm not at liberty to say.." blah blah.. why the **** not. Get the message out sooner. No industry is this ****ing retarded as the hair industry.

What if I wanted to get a procedure done now but would've waited if I knew more about this one? I could wait.. but if it didn't pan out I could get one now somewhere else. 

What if I did this and it ****ed me later when I wanted to do Wesley's technique??

It's just absolutely ****ing stupid. I'm sorry. Everyone needs to get over themselves and just be transparent... come out with a good ****ing product, and make money. Stop being douchebags.

----------


## Phatalis

Maybe people don't want to wait for a stupid ****ing conference in November when the results are already basically in. If you know these "facts" ... or The Dr himself does... then ****ing let people know.

Stop being dick bags that potentially ruin someone else and also cost you a customer.

Just ridiculous.

----------


## Phatalis

Hay gaiz i cured baldness trust me ill show you we have this new technique... But you cant get it til later and i can't tell you shit about it.

Just trust me!

----------


## PayDay

I can understand your frustration, but there is no reason to be so hostile. We're all waiting to find out if this technique will work as hoped, but not being able to divulge trade secrets is not exclusive to the hair industry. That's  just ridiculous.

I think Topcat's suggestion is a good one.

----------


## Phatalis

> I can understand your frustration, but there is no reason to be so hostile. We're all waiting to find out if this technique will work as hoped, but not being able to divulge trade secrets is not exclusive to the hair industry. That's  just ridiculous.
> 
> I think Topcat's suggestion is a good one.


 I know I'm sorry. It's just built up frustration. Not targeting anyone specific because everyone does it. I guess I'm just fed up.

----------


## splitting hairs

Artista, ignoring the potential for donor regeneration with this procedure, as there is only anecdotal evidence of this, will this procedure increase the number of grafts that can be harvested compared to FUE? 

The reason I ask is dr Wesley's website says: future surgeries are not hampered by fibrotic tissue. 

To me that means more grafts can be extracted??

----------


## Artista

Hi 'Splitting hairs'. Thanks for asking that question. With Dr. Wesley's upcoming new NEW technique, along with the instrumentation that he had designed (and is currently refining), the answer is YES !  This type of grafting results will be comparable to a full blown FUT strip, if not better. The data that I was privvy to IS amazing.. Especially the technique. In October Dr Wesley will be presenting the findings to the public.

----------


## splitting hairs

Thanks for your reply, that's good news for us all.  I take it Dr Wesley probably only has examples of small cases of 100-200 grafts at this stage??

----------


## Artista

Yes that's right Splitting' BUT these studies are VERY significant.  To clarify on an earlier concern here, there are certain legal parameters attached to this Pilofocus technique that will not allow for specifics .. for right  now. That's why Spencer and I could not expand on what we both had witnessed through Dr Wesley's PowerPoint discussion. I'm very excited about all of this. October will be a great month I feel

----------


## joely

TopCat,

You say this should only be available to over 35's which i appreciate and can see your reasons behind but what about someone in my position at 25 years old who is one strong wind away from being norwood 6, what is the point in me waiting ten years ill still be nw6 but gone ten years longer and all my twenties with little to no hair

----------


## joely

Artista is Dr wesley saying this is a scarless FUT procedure with full donor regenration?

----------


## Artista

It is an advanced type of FUE surgery Joely...there is a good possibility of donor regrowth/regeneration due to Dr Wesley's method

----------


## Artista

Listen to Spencer's show from a few weeks ago . He has explained it much better than I ever could

----------


## joely

A good posibility? does that mean there is a 50% chance of 10% donor regen or a 90% chance off 100% regen? or anywhere inbetween?

----------


## garethbale

Hi Artista

Do you know if the procedure would be available in the UK?

Thanks

----------


## Artista

I couldn't really say just how good or bad it will be , what we currently know of that part of this surgery is anecdotal , but positive.

----------


## Artista

Hi there Garethbale , if this new Pilofocus 'Scar-less' FUE technique is as successful as I think it will be then YES it will be introduced into the UK. We are talking about a potential 'Game-Changer' in the HT community   bro.

----------


## 534623

> We are talking about a potential 'Game-Changer' in the HT community   bro.


 Perhaps "we"  - but IM knows already it's potential 'hot air' in the HT community - bro.

----------


## Breaking Bald

> Perhaps "we"  - but IM knows already it's potential 'hot air' in the HT community - bro.


 Because Iron Man knows everything... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Artista

LOL Breaking'   It's ok though Everybody has their own opinions , as long as no one is highly insulting. No harm, no foul. Hey 534623, October isn't that far away..I understand what your saying.  You WILL be pleasantly surprised once you actually see what Spencer and I have seen

----------


## 534623

> You WILL be pleasantly surprised once you actually see what Spencer and I have seen


 I know what you and Spencer could see - namely nothing, because there is nothing to see when someone operates below the skin. I mean, it's practically the same when a surgeon performs a liposuction procedure - there is not much to see ...

----------


## garethbale

> Hi there Garethbale , if this new Pilofocus 'Scar-less' FUE technique is as successful as I think it will be then YES it will be introduced into the UK. We are talking about a potential 'Game-Changer' in the HT community   bro.


 Thanks mate!

----------


## john2399

It prob wont be out until 2015.

----------


## Artista

John , It will be available either by the end of this year or beginning of next year. Keep In mind , it is NOT a cure. It is a new innovative HT procedure.  Garethbale' your welcome brother

----------


## FearTheLoss

I really am trying to stay cautiously optimistic with this technique..I don't want to start assuming things and think that it's gonna be a game changer when we already have a "scarless" procedure, HST, that has (some) donor regeneration...whatever that number may be (I guess 50-80%)

----------


## Artista

Hey there Fear the Loss, I can unequivocally say to you that Dr Wesley's  new Pilofocus FUE method is NOTHING like the current 'scar-less' procedures that you are aware of to date.  When Dr Wesley had shared with me the actual PowerPoint presentation along with many photos/documents , was shown his innovative instrumentation , I was blown away by it. I would have never expected to see what I saw that day. As Spencer has said before , Dr Wesley will share this technique with other Doctors

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Hey there Fear the Loss, I can unequivocally say to you that Dr Wesley's  new Pilofocus FUE method is NOTHING like the current 'scar-less' procedures that you are aware of to date.  When Dr Wesley had shared with me the actual PowerPoint presentation along with many photos/documents , was shown his innovative instrumentation , I was blown away by it. I would have never expected to see what I saw that day. As Spencer has said before , Dr Wesley will share this technique with other Doctors


 Well I wish I were you and got to see it, this sucks waiting until October to know if this is something that may or may not impress me....

but thanks for the information Artista!

----------


## FearTheLoss

I mean it will be cool to see this technique and how it's scarless and what not, but there are numerous doctors now around the world that are documenting donor regeneration (Gho, Cole, Mousseigne) ...I feel like anything that isn't regeneration isn't that big of a deal..

----------


## Artista

I understand what your saying Fear' ..I wish I could share more of what I know of all of this . I promised Dr Wesley that I would not be too descriptive here on the forum . (Legal reasons) He does have an innovative treatment  that is very good to offer us soon.  You'll be surprised that this wasn't thought of long before,,as Spencer said

----------


## greatjob!

As of now there is only one doctor performing a truly scarless procedure and that is Dr. Gho, and to date I have yet to see a good result from Dr. Gho. He may or may not be achieving 85% regeneration, but the ultimate judge of a HT is the recipient results and if you look at Dr. Gho's own website his results are severely lacking. Dr. Wesley has been achieving good results for a long time so if he can achieve the same results in the recipient area with no scarring then I would definitely say it is a game changer.

----------


## Kiwi

> I understand what your saying Fear' ..I wish I could share more of what I know of all of this . I promised Dr Wesley that I would not be too descriptive here on the forum . (Legal reasons) He does have an innovative treatment  that is very good to offer us soon.  You'll be surprised that this wasn't thought of long before,,as Spencer said


 How much will the procedure cost Artista?

----------


## Jasari

> How much will the procedure cost Artista?


 I'm sure an estimated price per graft would be something a lot of people would love to know.

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

people why we say with the posibility of regen?

if this unique device has ultrasound viewing of the folicle root why not to also be able to extract only part of it and leave the rest to regen-heal?

----------


## Artista

Kiwi, Jasari , There was never any conversation about the cost. It was a PowerPoint discussion about the effectiveness and the factual data connected to it.

----------


## sausage

Is this treatment a lot faster than a FUE transplant?

What is the maximum amount of grafts that can be obtained in a session? - just after an estimate.

Can it regenerate?

When is it available?

Where will it be available?

What date in October is Dr Wesley doing his thing?


If this treatment can do 3000+ grafts, with no scaring, and with better yield than FUT/FUE then I am in, depending on price....

It would be useful if someone could tell me if this Pilofocus is capable of doing at least 2500 grafts in one session or over a few days.........If it can't I might as well book a FUE session now.

Dr Gho's regeneration technique sounds good but he can only do 1400 grafts a year, which sucks complete donkey's ass when you're a NW6. It would take 5-6 years to get a head of hair back.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> people why we say with the posibility of regen?
> 
> if this unique device has ultrasound viewing of the folicle root why not to also be able to extract only part of it and leave the rest to regen-heal?


 This device sounds very promising.

Dr Wesley is a reputable surgeon it seems and Spencer likes what he is doing.

If he manages to regenerate hair + scarless FUE, it will make HT an attractive option for those individuals who can't/won't tolerate propecia.

----------


## sausage

Is there a specific date in October that has been scheduled for whatever is going to happen? is it just an announcement?

October couldn't come sooner enough.

----------


## hellouser

> This device sounds very promising.
> 
> Dr Wesley is a reputable surgeon it seems and Spencer likes what he is doing.
> 
> If he manages to regenerate hair + scarless FUE, it will make HT an attractive option for those individuals who can't/won't tolerate propecia.


 It's also a huge step forward and for me would basically allow me to completely restore my hair in one shot, pilofocus is supposed to be able to yield greater amounts of hair. If thats the case, one session of about 3-4,000 grafts (with regeneration) would have me 'cured' (hairline restored to a respectable level and density greatly increased). NW3/4 and below will find this a huge boost.

I really, REALLY hope regeneration is a possibility though, otherwise its not really that much of a game changer.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> It's also a huge step forward and for me would basically allow me to completely restore my hair in one shot, pilofocus is supposed to be able to yield greater amounts of hair. If thats the case, one session of about 3-4,000 grafts (with regeneration) would have me 'cured' (hairline restored to a respectable level and density greatly increased). NW3/4 and below will find this a huge boost.
> 
> I really, REALLY hope regeneration is a possibility though, otherwise its not really that much of a game changer.


 Yes the key is regeneration.

If it can regenerate hair then HT will be made accessible by everyone.

----------


## hellouser

> Yes the key is regeneration.
> 
> If it can regenerate hair then HT will be made accessible by everyone.


 Lets hope it doesnt cost a lot. I'm more than willing to pay the price that Gho charges, hell I'll pay a little more if it means 3,000+ grafts.

----------


## Artista

Friends, I will be sharing my experiences with you beginning around Oct/Nov when Dr Wesley schedules my phase testing date. 
I was very impressed and excited with all of the facts and figures that Dr Wesley shared with me last May. I agree with Spencer 100%. 
I cant wait.

----------


## hellouser

> Friends, I will be sharing my experiences with you beginning around Oct/Nov when Dr Wesley schedules my phase testing date. 
> I was very impressed and excited with all of the facts and figures that Dr Wesley shared with me last May. I agree with Spencer 100%. 
> I cant wait.


 Wait, are you going to be one of his test candidates for pilofocus?

----------


## Artista

Yes I am one of his test patients..I have been informing everyone here about that for a while now.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Lets hope it doesnt cost a lot. I'm more than willing to pay the price that Gho charges, hell I'll pay a little more if it means 3,000+ grafts.


 It will be expensive.

But the good news is , if you are mid-late 20s and a NW2 with hardly any thinning (especially around the crown); true in my case. You should be able to save up.

Even if you have very mild crown thinning in your mid 20s, it is unlikely you will be slick bald before your early 30s. Happens to be the case with my work colleague, bald spot started appearing at 24, he is now 29 , has thick hair, but a thinning crown.

From posting on here over the years, the NW6s, are normally guys who get hit hard with diffuse hairloss in their late teens/early 20s.

I will add to this and tell every young man reading this, to not let hairloss consume them and work hard in their career. Money is what is going to fund these treatments, and when you do get a woman, eventually she will want to start a family with you. Aesthetics only goes so far as you grow older.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Friends, I will be sharing my experiences with you beginning around Oct/Nov when Dr Wesley schedules my phase testing date. 
> I was very impressed and excited with all of the facts and figures that Dr Wesley shared with me last May. I agree with Spencer 100%. 
> I cant wait.


 Has Dr Wesley said he is seeing regeneration?

And when is he expecting this to come onto the market?

He does not need to go through FDAs does he?

----------


## hellouser

> Yes I am one of his test patients..I have been informing everyone here about that for a while now.


 Any word on regeneration??

----------


## Artista

The 'rule of thumb' has always been *not to* decide on a HT based only on the cost. If you do that then you usually get what you pay for.

----------


## Artista

I have spoken about the donor area regrowth before,,yes there is anecdotal evidence to show impressive regrowth/regeneration of the donor areas...Ive seen it.

----------


## hellouser

> Has Dr Wesley said he is seeing regeneration?
> 
> And when is he expecting this to come onto the market?
> 
> He does not need to go through FDAs does he?


 FearTheLoss said Pilofocus should be available mid 2014, with a small clinical trial leading up to that.

----------


## hellouser

> I have spoken about the donor area regrowth before,,yes there is anecdotal evidence to show impressive regrowth/regeneration of the donor areas...Ive seen it.


 Cant. Wait.

Thanks Artista!

Just out of curiousity, where is Dr. Wesley located?

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I have spoken about the donor area regrowth before,,yes there is anecdotal evidence to show impressive regrowth/regeneration of the donor areas...Ive seen it.


 You have seen pictures showing regeneration?

What was the % for donor regeneration?

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> FearTheLoss said Pilofocus should be available mid 2014, with a small clinical trial leading up to that.


 I think to be honest, this is how its going to pan out in the hairloss industry:

Surgical regeneration

then 

drug based treatments. (histogen etc)

----------


## Artista

Dr Wesley is out in NY ,,,There have been quite a bit of test phase studies going on at Pilofocus.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Cant. Wait.
> 
> Thanks Artista!
> 
> Just out of curiousity, where is Dr. Wesley located?


 New York.

http://www.drcarloswesley.com/

He also is Princeton/Yale educated and has a full set of hair  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

One thing I fear; is that this doesn't turn into another marketing gimmick like Acell did.

----------


## Artista

I wouldnt give out any % numbers (I cant) but I can say this,,i was* very IMPRESSED* with those study results of the donor areas ,,Spencer would concur with that.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I wouldnt give out any % numbers (I cant) but I can say this,,i was* very IMPRESSED* with those study results of the donor areas ,,Spencer would concur with that.


 Did you see photos?

Or just read documentation?

----------


## Artista

Tell you what YeahYeahYeah...in October 2013 - Dr Wesley will be presenting  it all at the conference in San Francisco. This is no gimmick  ,,Dr Wesley is very sincere in his approach.

----------


## Artista

I was presented with the PowerPoint presentation and discussion on Skype with Dr Wesley last May.  The same thing shown to Spencer.

----------


## hellouser

> I think to be honest, this is how its going to pan out in the hairloss industry:
> 
> Surgical regeneration
> 
> then 
> 
> drug based treatments. (histogen etc)


 I'm fine with that. I think even if Histogen we're to release a product, or replicel or aderans (fingers crossed) I dont think any of those can grow full density on slick bald scalp, so an HT, I have a feeling, will still be needed but the treatments via Histogen and Replicel will be used as maintenance. I have a feeling they have the potential to function as permanent finasteride. So essentially: HT with pilofocus w/ regeneration + replicel = FINISHED FOR LIFE. Bye bye Finasteride & KO1.

----------


## Artista

I do feel that this just may be the Game-changer in hair restoration surgery that Spencer spoke of .

----------


## hellouser

October is going to be an interesting month. More hair presentations, Dr. Nigam's results + Dr. Mwamba meeting, Pilofocus & Replicels Phase II trial start.

Awesome, awesome, awesome.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Tell you what YeahYeahYeah...in October 2013 - Dr Wesley will be presenting  it all at the conference in San Francisco. This is no gimmick  ,,Dr Wesley is very sincere in his approach.


 Artista, I hope you are right, I am just so sick and tired of charlatans in this industry.

I remember when the Acell hype came out, everyone thought it was a game changer, but it wasn't.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> October is going to be an interesting month. More hair presentations, Dr. Nigam's results + Dr. Mwamba meeting, Pilofocus & Replicels Phase II trial start.
> 
> Awesome, awesome, awesome.


 Dr Nigam, I really don't trust him.

----------


## Artista

> I'm fine with that. I think even if Histogen we're to release a product, or replicel or aderans (fingers crossed) I dont think any of those can grow full density on slick bald scalp, so an HT, I have a feeling, will still be needed but the treatments via Histogen and Replicel will be used as maintenance. I have a feeling they have the potential to function as permanent finasteride. So essentially: HT with pilofocus w/ regeneration + replicel = FINISHED FOR LIFE. Bye bye Finasteride & KO1.


 I think that is a good way to look at it all Hellouser

----------


## hellouser

> Dr Nigam, I really don't trust him.


 He's a maverick pushing experimental stem cell treatments NOW. You have to applaud that.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I'm fine with that. I think even if Histogen we're to release a product, or replicel or aderans (fingers crossed) I dont think any of those can grow full density on slick bald scalp, so an HT, I have a feeling, will still be needed but the treatments via Histogen and Replicel will be used as maintenance. I have a feeling they have the potential to function as permanent finasteride. So essentially: HT with pilofocus w/ regeneration + replicel = FINISHED FOR LIFE. Bye bye Finasteride & KO1.


 KO1 doesn't even use propecia anymore, I think he got sides. Remember reading it on here.

It is time we moved away from propecia. The potential sides are not worth the hassle.

----------


## hellouser

> I think that is a good way to look at it all Hellouser


 Personally, I'd go for the triple punch:

Replicel first with growth factors from Histogen to encourage growth of replicel's injected cells along with existing miniaturized follicles. Then Pilofocus to cover any remaining bald spots.

All this imo will probably work even better if given a DHT free environment supplemented by prior treatment from Finasteride, RU & CB while using a dermaroller for maximum absorption.

Hopefully there are no side effects from this.

----------


## Artista

YeahYeahYeah  ,,in regards to Acell..keep in mind that it is STILL in its 'infancy stage' when talking about hair treatments. 
Acell has done some wondrous things, historically speaking.
Dont dismiss Acell just yet. It is all a matter of progression.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> He's a maverick pushing experimental stem cell treatments NOW. You have to applaud that.


 Sure.

But it will never take simply due to the fact that he is a maverick. It will just be like Gho.

If Dr Wesley's procedure works, don't be surprised if other top doctors adopt it, due to his reputation. Which is a good thing because I want top surgeons like Rahal etc using it as I need hairline work done.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> YeahYeahYeah  ,,in regards to Acell..keep in mind that it is STILL in its 'infancy stage' when talking about hair treatments. 
> Acell has done some wondrous things, historically speaking.
> Dont dismiss Acell just yet. It is all a matter of progression.


 Dr Rassman didn't find regeneration using it.

----------


## hellouser

> Sure.
> 
> But it will never take simply due to the fact that he is a maverick. It will just be like Gho.
> 
> If Dr Wesley's procedure works, don't be surprised if other top doctors adopt it, due to his reputation. Which is a good thing because I want top surgeons like Rahal etc using it as I need hairline work done.


 I don't see why so many people are so hung up on Rahal when speaking about future treatments. I agree, he's the best, but what I don't get too worried about is someone else restoring my hairline.... whatever any other doctor does to my hairline cannot possible be any worse than what it is right now; a pathetic McDonalds logo shape. I'll take ANY new hairline over what I have now.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Personally, I'd go for the triple punch:
> 
> Replicel first with growth factors from Histogen to encourage growth of replicel's injected cells along with existing miniaturized follicles. Then Pilofocus to cover any remaining bald spots.
> 
> All this imo will probably work even better if given a DHT free environment supplemented by prior treatment from Finasteride, RU & CB while using a dermaroller for maximum absorption.
> 
> Hopefully there are no side effects from this.


 Histogen is the best future treatment in the works.

But I have a feeling it may never make it onto the market.

It is not in the HT industry to let that happen, because what could happen people could just get top ups at the early stages of their hairloss - eradicating the need for HT surgery.

Less money will be made.

----------


## hellouser

> Histogen is the best future treatment in the works.
> 
> But I have a feeling it may never make it onto the market.
> 
> It is not in the HT industry to let that happen, because what could happen people could just get top ups at the early stages of their hairloss - eradicating the need for HT surgery.
> 
> Less money will be made.


 
We'll see what happens. Otherwise, I'm buying a mesogun and replicating their treatment on my own. I want to know the names of people that oppose Histogen though, I swear to go I will hunt them down and make their first born disappear.

----------


## Artista

Does it really matter to us what Dr Rassman thinks or says about it? 
I use to read his site all the time but when I realized that he seemed not to be so OBJECTIVE i spent my time else where

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I don't see why so many people are so hung up on Rahal when speaking about future treatments. I agree, he's the best, but what I don't get too worried about is someone else restoring my hairline.... whatever any other doctor does to my hairline cannot possible be any worse than what it is right now; a pathetic McDonalds logo shape. I'll take ANY new hairline over what I have now.


 I have a M shape too. I absolutely hate it, limited to wearing bangs when I used to push my hair up.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Does it really matter to us what Dr Rassman thinks or says about it? 
> I use to read his site all the time but when I realized that he seemed not to be so OBJECTIVE i spent my time else where


 I just want something to work, outside of him, I have not heard it working. The only one that goes on about it , is Dr Cooley who invented it.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> We'll see what happens. Otherwise, I'm buying a mesogun and replicating their treatment on my own. I want to know the names of people that oppose Histogen though, I swear to go I will hunt them down and make their first born disappear.


 What norwood are you?

Got pics?

How old are you?

----------


## Artista

Dr Cole has been very aggressive in Acell's  usage , He seems to be progressing quite well with it .

----------


## hellouser

> What norwood are you?
> 
> Got pics?
> 
> How old are you?


 I'm 29 and a NW3 with some thinning (but not visually noticeable).

----------


## Artista

By the way Dr Cooley did NOT invent Acell...Dr. Alan R. Spievack and his team created Acell many years ago. It was not initially invented for hair.
By the way, RIP Dr. Alan R. Spievack.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Dr Cole has been very aggressive in Acell's  usage , He seems to be progressing quite well with it .


 I have heard this but havent seen much evidence.

----------


## Artista

Dr Cole will be at the October conference in San Francisco too. 
Maybe he will be presenting his Acell findings then..

I wanted to reiterate that *Dr Cooley did NOT invent Acell*. 

Dr. Alan R. Spievack did and created Acell Inc.

----------


## hellouser

> Dr Cole will be at the October conference in San Francisco too. 
> Maybe he will be presenting his Acell findings then..


 Whats been going on with Acell? Is it still something thats in the works or something that people are continously getting while Cole experiments on?

----------


## Artista

Acell is very much still in the works..dont count it out..Dr. Alan R. Spievack created something amazing many years ago,,it was just introduced into the  hair culture relatively recent.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Dr Cole will be at the October conference in San Francisco too. 
> Maybe he will be presenting his Acell findings then..
> 
> I wanted to reiterate that *Dr Cooley did NOT invent Acell*. 
> 
> Dr. Alan R. Spievack did and created Acell Inc.


 But he is offering it as a service. One that many doctors are struggling to get working.

If Dr Cole is going to do that, then he is onto something. He is a no nonsense guy, so I trust his judgement.

----------


## sausage

> I have spoken about the donor area regrowth before,,yes there is anecdotal evidence to show impressive regrowth/regeneration of the donor areas...Ive seen it.


 WOW! Not sure why everyone has gone off on a tangent, talking about acell and Histogen when this has just been stated!!!

"Impressive regrowth/regeneration"     YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For a NW6 who only has maybe 4000 grafts max worth of donor this is huge news. Along with the fact that it is scarless and retainment of grafts is supposed to be very impressive.

I can now get a decent head of hair back......if this is all true.

Although knowing my luck the cost will be ridiculous so I won't be able to go near it.

Artista.......is Pilofocus a quicker way of transplanting hair than FUE?

----------


## hellouser

> Although knowing my luck the cost will be ridiculous so I won't be able to go near it.


 Spend the money, you live once, you aint taking those dollars to your grave, better to enjoy the short time your on this planet than to die rich and miserable.

If the procedure works with regeneration, I'm 100% game and will definitely be going for a treatment.

----------


## sausage

> Spend the money, you live once, you aint taking those dollars to your grave, better to enjoy the short time your on this planet than to die rich and miserable.
> 
> If the procedure works with regeneration, I'm 100&#37; game and will definitely be going for a treatment.


 Spend the money?

If it's say $5 a graft it would cost $40,000 dollars..........&#163;26,000

If it's say $8 a graft it would cost $64,000 dollars.......&#163;41,666

who has that kind of dollar to spend.

I am hoping at best the process is less time consuming and requires less human input than FUE........and therefore the prices are affordable.

$9.99 for 8000 grafts seems fair.  :Smile:

----------


## hellouser

> Spend the money?
> 
> If it's say $5 a graft it would cost $40,000 dollars..........£26,000
> 
> If it's say $8 a graft it would cost $64,000 dollars.......£41,666
> 
> who has that kind of dollar to spend.
> 
> I am hoping at best the process is less time consuming and requires less human input than FUE........and therefore the prices are affordable.
> ...


 I doubt its going to cost more than Dr. Umar's Body Hair Transplant.

----------


## Artista

Hi Sausage , I really dont know what the surgery time frame may be as to  this new technique of Dr Wesley's.
 It is still in its phase testing and he is refining what he has begun.
 Keep in mind it is still defined as an FUE surgical method. I think he did say that the time frame may be quicker than normal FUE surgery.

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

guys i am getting anxious, why to be so expensive?  :Frown:

----------


## sausage

> Hi Sausage , I really dont know what the surgery time frame may be as to  this new technique of Dr Wesley's.
>  It is still in its phase testing and he is refining what he has begun.
>  Keep in mind it is still defined as an FUE surgical method. I think he did say that the time frame may be quicker than normal FUE surgery.


 Cheers Artista,

I hope so.......I hope that Pilofocus is available at the end of this year/beginning of next. I hope to that it will be something I could afford.

There is usually some kind of down side.

----------


## 534623

> I have spoken about the donor area regrowth before,,yes there is anecdotal evidence to show impressive regrowth/regeneration of the donor areas...Ive seen it.


 Seriously - could you please stop OVERHYPING something what isn't, in fact, not even worth to discuss.

btw - you and Dr. Wesley say (I have nothing against Dr. Wesley and definitely nothing against new approaches aka "simply let's *try* it") -  "*I'm surprised that nobody else ever thought about it!"* - or something like that ...

Yeah, guess why ...

If I'm not completely wrong (and I'm extremely rarely completely wrong) - this procedure will be never ever a "game changer".

But feel free to bookmark this post...you know... "for later reference"... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Seriously - could you please stop OVERHYPING something what isn't, in fact, not even worth to discuss.
> 
> btw - you and Dr. Wesley say (I have nothing against Dr. Wesley and definitely nothing against new approaches aka "simply let's *try* it") -  "*I'm surprised that nobody else ever thought about it!"* - or something like that ...
> 
> Yeah, guess why ...
> 
> If I'm not completely wrong (and I'm extremely rarely completely wrong) - this procedure will be never ever a "game changer".
> 
> But feel free to bookmark this post...you know... "for later reference"...


 Iron man, you never seem to say anything positive about anything.

X person releases a new procedure -" it is shit "
Y person releases a new procedure -" it is shit "
Z person releases a new procedure -" it is shit "

----------


## garethbale

> Seriously - could you please stop OVERHYPING something what isn't, in fact, not even worth to discuss.
> 
> btw - you and Dr. Wesley say (*I have nothing against Dr. Wesley* and definitely nothing against new approaches aka "simply let's *try* it") -  "*I'm surprised that nobody else ever thought about it!"* - or something like that ...
> 
> Yeah, guess why ...
> 
> If I'm not completely wrong (and I'm extremely rarely completely wrong) - this procedure will be never ever a "game changer".
> 
> But feel free to bookmark this post...you know... "for later reference"...


 you have something against anyone that isn't Dr Gho

----------


## john2399

Its going to cost same as fue or even cheaper. I doubt a brand new procedure is going to cost an absurd amount with it being so new and all and Dr wesley trying to draw in new patients.

----------


## Dees Dab

> Its going to cost same as fue or even cheaper. I doubt a brand new procedure is going to cost an absurd amount with it being so new and all and Dr wesley trying to draw in new patients.


 O.K. If you are going out on a limb saying the cost will be the same as FUE or cheaper, then I will say regeneration will happen and rival Dr Gho at 50-85%.

You heard it here first.

----------


## hellouser

Is Dr. Wesley presenting pilofocus next year at the World Congress for Hair Research in Korea?

If so, would it be way to early to guess he'd be one of the speakers during the regeneration talk?

There is a session dedicated to it, click here for the program schedule: http://hair2014.org/images/Program_01_pop.jpg

----------


## greatjob!

> Seriously - could you please stop OVERHYPING something what isn't, in fact, not even worth to discuss.
> 
> btw - you and Dr. Wesley say (I have nothing against Dr. Wesley and definitely nothing against new approaches aka "simply let's *try* it") -  "*I'm surprised that nobody else ever thought about it!"* - or something like that ...
> 
> Yeah, guess why ...
> 
> If I'm not completely wrong (and I'm extremely rarely completely wrong) - this procedure will be never ever a "game changer".
> 
> But feel free to bookmark this post...you know... "for later reference"...


 Dude if you posted this in the Dr Nigam thread I wouldn't even object because I haven't seen any proof of what he claims, I'm thankful for what he's trying to do and hopeful since boldy is now involved, but Dr. Wesley is a very good, well respected doctor. His reputation is much better than your demigod Dr. Gho. I question the claims of regeneration and eagerly await proof of those claims, just like I eagerly await proof of Dr. Gho's claims of consistent 80-85% regeneration. However regardless of regeneration Dr. Wesley's technique still has the possibility of greatly advancing hair restoration and I suspect because of his reputation has a greater chance of being adopted by a large number of hair transplant surgeons than any new advancement. 

so like you I'll make a prediction. I predict that Dr. Wesley's procedure will be more widely adopted and more widely available than Dr. Gho's technique will ever be.

so you can "feel free to bookmark this post...you know... "for later reference"..." :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## sausage

He is trying to piss everyone off, that is Ironman's aim. Don't know why he is hated on here, as I have not been a member for long.........but it is sad that he feels he has to rant about something he knows nothing about just to annoy others.


Aristas seems to know what he's talking about....although I don't know him, or if he has standing/respect around these forums but I believe him.

----------


## greatjob!

> He is trying to piss everyone off, that is Ironman's aim. Don't know why he is hated on here, as I have not been a member for long.........but it is sad that he feels he has to rant about something he knows nothing about just to annoy others.


 It's because he is a bald, angry, bitter little man. He used to be a very constructive, knowledgeable member of the forums. Then Dr. Gho came along and he went full retard, never go full retard, never.

----------


## Artista

Hello all,  
*Thank you Sausage* for that positive comment. There will  always be a percentage of people out there who will comment negatively like the one you had mentioned.  It is in  our best interest to stay positive though.  
We all know that eventually some type of regenerative hair treatment will become available to us. Until that time has come, we should either utilize what is available to us now or individually reassess how we look at ourselves. Reason being- *None of us wants life to 'pass us by'.*
As far as Dr Wesley's new approach to FUE surgery is concerned, 
I was privileged enough to get insight to his technique through the PowerPoint presentation containing all of its current data, photographic evidence and a viewing of his innovative new instrumentation which is awaiting an OK from the FDA . 
Keep in mind guys, I am a regular member here just  as you are. 
I have been doing extensive research on hair loss treatments for quite a while. In the past , thankfully, I had not jumped on something right away that seemed to be a good thing. Research research research, will either prove or disprove what you had hoped for. 
I know that you must keep your mind objective and realistic  when doing so, and I have.  There is nothing wrong with staying positive about Dr Wesley's upcoming technique because he WILL be presenting all of it at the ISHRS Conference  this October anyway.
When I am scheduled as a patient for Dr Wesley's phase testing later this year, I will be glad to do so but dont think I wont have a little bit of apprehension attached. Who wouldnt? We are talking about surgery of course. 
I have confidence in Dr Wesley though. He is a sincere guy and I could sense that he really wants to take hair surgery on up to the next level.
Don't allow negativity to infect you but dont be naive either. 
Cheers.

----------


## medion1

> It's because he is a bald, angry, bitter little man.


 Did you really just mock someone for being bald, on the BALDtruth forums?????

Aren't we all bald here?...Oh wait I'm sorry.... I forgot that most of you on this website are paranoid 21 year olds who actually have full heads of hair.

If your not bald then get of the f***ing forum!

----------


## sausage

I contacted Pilofocus......I got this response:

_The scarless surgery technique that Dr. Wesley pioneered is still in the early clinical trial phase and - thanks to a recent $1.5M research grant - is now scheduled to be made available with FDA Approval in late 2013.

Please be aware that the clinical trial will likely involve very small sessions (less than 400 grafts) at first before much larger sessions are realized the following year.  Once results are consistently reproduced, the device will be made available for all practices specializing in surgical hair restoration.

Dr. Wesley has been invited to present his research findings related to this novel hair follicle harvesting technique at the International Society of Hair Restoration Surgery (ISHRS) Conference held in San Francisco, CA, in October of 2013._


Right....first I don't understand why they state that the device is scheduled for availability later this year but then go on to mention the following year when talking about larger trial sessions. Do you know what they mean Arista?

The other thing that I don't get is that they call it 'the scarless technique' and don't mention anything about regeneration, yield etc.........is it's best feature that it is scarless, if it is good at regenerating, I would place regeneration above scaring, seeing as scaring would be covered by new hair growth. Makes me worry that they are not mentioning anything about regen.

The email also went on to say that if you want a consultation Dr Wesley is available to do a consultation in relation to Pilofocus and can give you a price based on what you need.........a consultation costs $100, as I am in the UK it is too costly for me to come over.......is anyone in USA going to check this out.....it could be useful in getting more information about Pilofocus before October......including prices.

----------


## greatjob!

> Did you really just mock someone for being bald, on the BALDtruth forums?????
> 
> Aren't we all bald here?...Oh wait I'm sorry.... I forgot that most of you on this website are paranoid 21 year olds who actually have full heads of hair.
> 
> If your not bald then get of the f***ing forum!


 Hi! Thanks for opening your mouth when you have not a clue what you're talking about. IM is an angry little troll, and that is why I made that comment.

As for me, you probably shouldn't make assumptions about people based on nothing, especially considering my situation is probably 1000 times worse than yours. I started loosing my hair right after puberty, I was a NW 3 by my sophomore year of high school, and by 20 I was a very diffused NW 5/6. The story goes on and gets worse, but I am now 30 and I think you get the picture. So please shut the f**ck up and don't act like you know anything about me.

----------


## 534623

> Hi! Thanks for opening your mouth when you have not a clue what you're talking about. IM is an angry little troll, and that is why I made that comment.
> 
> As for me, *you probably shouldn't make assumptions about people based on nothing...*.


 hmmm, I wonder WHO is the angry little troll ... what a psychopathic loser ...

----------


## sausage

> Hi! Thanks for opening your mouth when you have not a clue what you're talking about. IM is an angry little troll, and that is why I made that comment.
> 
> As for me, you probably shouldn't make assumptions about people based on nothing, especially considering my situation is probably 1000 times worse than yours. I started loosing my hair right after puberty, I was a NW 3 by my sophomore year of high school, and by 20 I was a very diffused NW 5/6. The story goes on and gets worse, but I am now 30 and I think you get the picture. So please shut the f**ck up and don't act like you know anything about me.


 Don't reply to Ironman, I don't want yet another thread full of arguments with him. Just report him, everyone pissed off with him should report him.

----------


## greatjob!

> hmmm, I wonder WHO is the angry little troll ... what a psychopathic loser ...


 My assumptions of you aren't based on nothing, they are in response to your entire body of online posts, which clearly point to you being an "angry little troll"

----------


## 534623

> My assumptions of you aren't based on nothing, they are in response to your entire body of online posts, which clearly point to you being an "angry little troll"


 Sure, everybody is an "angry little troll" as soon as he is saything things (more accurate FACTS) losers like you don't want to hear. What else ...

----------


## hellouser

> Sure, everybody is an "angry little troll" as soon as he is saything things (more accurate FACTS) losers like you don't want to hear. What else ...


 Losers like you are detrimental to online discussions. Please leave.

----------


## huawei

> I contacted Pilofocus......I got this response:
> 
> _The scarless surgery technique that Dr. Wesley pioneered is still in the early clinical trial phase and - thanks to a recent $1.5M research grant - is now scheduled to be made available with FDA Approval in late 2013.
> 
> Please be aware that the clinical trial will likely involve very small sessions (less than 400 grafts) at first before much larger sessions are realized the following year.  Once results are consistently reproduced, the device will be made available for all practices specializing in surgical hair restoration.
> 
> Dr. Wesley has been invited to present his research findings related to this novel hair follicle harvesting technique at the International Society of Hair Restoration Surgery (ISHRS) Conference held in San Francisco, CA, in October of 2013._
> 
> 
> ...


 
Judging from the email you have received it seems as if there is going to be a degree of continuing R&D into the device after its initial launch which isn't a bad thing.

Because it's not approved to regrow hair but as a scarless technique. Much in the same way rogaine doesn't advertise results on the temples only the crown because that's all it is "proven" for scientifically. Furthermore as there is only anecdotal evidence of donor regrowth it's expected that they remain rather coy until its repeatable and consistent. Otherwise it just remains a possible bonus effect to complement the scarless treatment. An added incentive.


Everyone should just chill out about this, we have a member who is getting the treatment done and believes in it wholeheartedly from what he has seen that we haven't and that should be enough for us to understand that even if it won't regrow the donor that it's still one hell of a step up from FUE. So everyone should relax and take any info we receive from Artista or that comes out of Pilofocus in the meantime as bonuses leading up Dr. Wesley's presentation only a few months from now where all of our questions will be answered.

----------


## sausage

Arista - when do you start the trial?

----------


## Artista

Sausage, Based on what Dr Wesley has stated , I will be scheduled for either  October or November.

----------


## sausage

> Sausage, Based on what Dr Wesley has stated , I will be scheduled for either  October or November.


 So, are the trails you are going to be entering a 2nd phase? I understand other trials have been done or are in progress. Do you know the difference between the earlier trials and the trials you are entering into?

Thanks.

----------


## Artista

I can only speculate that it may be the advanced phase trial test based upon how long he has been involved with this now. Of course it could also be that a certain # of test patients have to be utilized for the instrumentation approval  phase .. In other words. I don't know Sausage. LOL

----------


## sausage

ok, cheers anyway.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

Thank you for your request.  Let me begin by saying that you are approaching this personal issue in the correct manner: actively reaching out to a physician trained in the specialty of hair loss rather than by solely relying on information obtained passively online.



The scarless surgery technique that Dr. Wesley pioneered is still in the early clinical trial phase and - thanks to a recent $1.5M research grant - is now scheduled to be made available with FDA Approval in late 2013.  Not only will new patients benefit from this technique, but even patients undergoing current techniques will benefit from this novel approach in a subsequent session.  Dr. Wesley will be happy to discuss with you the details surrounding this novel method and he will be able to answer your specific questions about how this surgical technique may benefit you through a careful in-person examination of your hair characteristics as well as a review of your medical history.  Appropriate candidates will also be invited to take part in a more advanced clinical trial scheduled to take place later this year.  



Please be aware that the clinical trial will likely involve very small sessions (less than 400 grafts) at first before much larger sessions are realized the following year.  While there is evidence from other investigative studies that suggest donor regeneration is possible based on this approach, the upcoming clinical trial will focus on this aspect.  It has, however, not yet been proven unequivocally.  Dr. Wesley has been invited to present his research findings related to this novel hair follicle harvesting technique at the International Society of Hair Restoration Surgery (ISHRS) Conference held in San Francisco, CA, in October of 2013.  Therefore, patients interested only in learning only about the scarless surgery technique are strongly encouraged to tune in during the fall of 2013 when Dr. Wesley will fully disclose the various details of scarless surgery on the various hair loss forums.  You will receive an emailing alerting you when that public disclosure does take place.

----------


## sausage

just sent some consultation photos over to him, hopefully he can let me know something about any regeneration he has come across.

Yield we know so far looks a lot better than current FUE.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> just sent some consultation photos over to him, hopefully he can let me know something about any regeneration he has come across.
> 
> Yield we know so far looks a lot better than current FUE.


 So has regeneration been proven or what?

----------


## sausage

> So has regeneration been proven or what?


 I don't know......that's why I said I asked him.

All I have heard is rumors, no facts. Arista has stated there IS regeneration....and he knows a lot more than I do. I don't think anything has come from Pilofocus themselves about regeneration. Probably won't know until october.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> I don't know......that's why I said I asked him.
> 
> All I have heard is rumors, no facts. Arista has stated there IS regeneration....and he knows a lot more than I do. I don't think anything has come from Pilofocus themselves about regeneration. Probably won't know until october.


 Artista can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is basically what we know now:

-the procedure is as good as or better than FUT FOR SURE...

-there is NO scarring, not even microscopic

-there has been some evidence of regeneration, and so instead of releasing the pilofocus technique at the end of 2013..it's going to be mid 2014 because Dr. Wesley is doing another clinical trial to find out how much hair he can regenerate and if he can regenerate this hair consistently.

-hair can be worn at ANY length for surgery 

...from my understanding we will know everything in October, including what the regeneration may be.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Artista can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is basically what we know now:
> 
> -the procedure is as good as or better than FUT FOR SURE...
> 
> -there is NO scarring, not even microscopic
> 
> -there has been some evidence of regeneration, and so instead of releasing the pilofocus technique at the end of 2013..it's going to be mid 2014 because Dr. Wesley is doing another clinical trial to find out how much hair he can regenerate and if he can regenerate this hair consistently.
> 
> -hair can be worn at ANY length for surgery 
> ...


 How can we know what the regeneration will be when he is conducting clinical trials?

----------


## Artista

Hello all,  I felt compelled to post here after calling in to Spencer's live show yesterday, 7/30/13. It was a very good show with great call in members.
(not counting me-LOL)  
Anyway, after talking with Spencer and Joe too, Id like to reiterate to everyone that although Dr Wesley's new method seems to be  very promising , none of us should put all of our hopes just on this venture.
Im not saying that you should not feel POSITIVE about the future because you *SHOULD*!  Especially you younger guys out there. 
*As Spencer has said on the show, the exact method of how Dr Wesley extracts the follicles in conjunction with the treatment applied to the donor area afterwards is very promising but anecdotal.* 
*Dr Wesley's placement to the recipient area is grade-A professional and artful too.*   The possibility of having an FUE that RIVALS or even out does  FUT surgery minus a strip scar is a GREAT *possibility.* 
I look forward to Dr Wesley's presentation in October as you do. 
I respect the man and look forward to being a part of his phase testing around that time.  
Stay upbeat my friends. 
 :Big Grin:

----------


## sausage

For me personally, all my hope is with Pilofocus.....

I am approaching 30, my young life has been ruined by hairloss. I would at least like to enjoy my late 20's and my 30's with hair, I cannot wait 5, 10, 15 years. I need to get something done within the next year......and I don't see anything other than Pilofocus being an improvement in the hairloss world in the next year..........ppl talk of Nigam, but that seems like bullshit to me.

----------


## Artista

Hi Sausage, i I understand And empathize my brother. Being that you are in your 30s I realize The significance that this latest method holds for you, You hang in there man! You will be impressed in October As I was last May After discussing It all with Dr. Wesley. Sausage.. Do you live here in the United States?

----------


## sausage

> Hi Sausage, i I understand And empathize my brother. Being that you are in your 30s I realize The significance that this latest method holds for you, You hang in there man! You will be impressed in October As I was last May After discussing It all with Dr. Wesley. Sausage.. Do you live here in the United States?


 I am not in my 30's....yet. I am in my late 20's.

I am in the UK. I am waiting til October and I hope it is positive.......if so and if Pilofocus is available soon, then I will be getting it straight away....as long as the price isn't ridiculous.....if Pilofocus doesn't work out, then standard FUE + SMP will have to do.

----------


## didi

Pilofocus will be very expensive if done by Dr Wesley, that's for sure.
He is based in NY, how much does he charges for FUE graft?


Hope he sells licence to reputable Indian or Turkish doctor

----------


## KeepHoping

I messaged their office expressing my interest in scarless surgery and got a reply email saying that it is scheduled to be made available with FDA approval by late 2013, so I would say it is something to get excited about.  Whether or not hair regeneration will occur is up in the air however, the procedure seems VERY promising and they got a generous research grant that backed their research AND on top of that Spencer actually believes in its efficacy.

What I hope is that this doctor has the same artistic ability and can make a hairline like Rahal can because if that ever becomes the case we are in for a good time late 2013 and I will try to get it done at the end of this year or early 2014.   Lastly, and I think this is an important aspect, with this procedure you can leave your hair at any length so you can more quickly get back to doing the day to day (work, relationships etc etc.)

Stay hopeful.

----------


## Artista

Hi there Keep' You had post a very equitable response In regards to all of that.  Sausage, I apologize for mis-reading what you said of your age. I'd like to converse  with you further Sausage .. About hair treatment and about England.  My wife and I will be out to your country sometime next year.  I'll request to befriend you here on the forum bro.

----------


## The Alchemist

> *As Spencer has said on the show, the exact method of how Dr Wesley extracts the follicles in conjunction with the treatment applied to the donor area afterwards is very promising but anecdotal.*


 Hmmm, that treatment applied afterwards to the donor area sounds supiciously like acell   :Smile:

----------


## TheSwingingGate

I am waiting with great interest as well.
If Dr. Wesley's approach proves successful, and I am hopeful it will with regeneration, I am there!

Looking forward to October!

Let's go Sausage!

----------


## Javert

> For me personally, all my hope is with Pilofocus.....
> 
> I am approaching 30, my young life has been ruined by hairloss. I would at least like to enjoy my late 20's and my 30's with hair, I cannot wait 5, 10, 15 years. I need to get something done within the next year......and *I don't see anything other than Pilofocus being an improvement in the hairloss world in the next year*..........ppl talk of Nigam, but that seems like bullshit to me.


 Word.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> For me personally, all my hope is with Pilofocus.....
> 
> I am approaching 30, my young life has been ruined by hairloss. I would at least like to enjoy my late 20's and my 30's with hair, I cannot wait 5, 10, 15 years. I need to get something done within the next year......and I don't see anything other than Pilofocus being an improvement in the hairloss world in the next year..........ppl talk of Nigam, but that seems like bullshit to me.


 I agree.

If pilofocus fails, I think our generation may be the last one to be bald.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I am waiting with great interest as well.
> If Dr. Wesley's approach proves successful, and I am hopeful it will with regeneration, I am there!
> 
> Looking forward to October!
> 
> Let's go Sausage!


 If his technique has no regeneration it is useless for most of us.

No point getting a HT.

----------


## hellouser

> I agree.
> 
> If pilofocus fails, I think our generation may be the last one to be bald.


 Well theres something to look forward to.

I swear to god I want to tear someone a new asshole for the lack of a cure for this god damn disease.

----------


## hellouser

> If his technique has no regeneration it is useless for most of us.
> 
> No point getting a HT.


 This is true. What good will 4,000 grafts do if hair loss continues and you end up with an island of hair 5 years later? This really is only an upgrade for those that are good candidates for an HT. Everyone else is still fvcked.

Replicel really needs to hurry up. 2015 can't come soon enough... I can't believe Im saying this, but I actually want time to fly... pissing away 2 years of my life in exchange for hair. What a miserable disease this is.

----------


## sausage

> If his technique has no regeneration it is useless for most of us.
> 
> No point getting a HT.


 This will be a MASSIVE boost if it has some decent regeneration....and of course this is very important for me personally but if not......

Pilofocus by the looks of things has a much higher percentage of recipient growth, so it could produce 20-30% more hair. 

That would be enough for me to opt for Pilofocus over standard FUE.....

But I hope to god there is at least 30% regeneration, ideally 50% +

----------


## sausage

> Hi there Keep' You had post a very equitable response In regards to all of that.  Sausage, I apologize for mis-reading what you said of your age. I'd like to converse  with you further Sausage .. About hair treatment and about England.  My wife and I will be out to your country sometime next year.  I'll request to befriend you here on the forum bro.


 Cheers Arista. I appreciate your help. I have accepted your friendship  :Smile:

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> This will be a MASSIVE boost if it has some decent regeneration....and of course this is very important for me personally but if not......
> 
> Pilofocus by the looks of things has a much higher percentage of recipient growth, so it could produce 20-30&#37; more hair. 
> 
> That would be enough for me to opt for Pilofocus over standard FUE.....
> 
> But I hope to god there is at least 30% regeneration, ideally 50% +


 To be honest bro, like you I am approaching my 30s. I ****ing hate how some guys have like zero hairloss at all. By that, no recession.

The other day when i was out with my friends, they were making fun of guys starting to bald or balding. The poor guys.

It's not fair that we have to experience hairloss. I know you might think I have nothing to worry about because I have thick hair. But a good hairline frames your face. When it starts to receed, the face starts to look longer. It's like torture.

----------


## hellouser

> To be honest bro, like you I am approaching my 30s. I ****ing hate how some guys have like zero hairloss at all. By that, no recession.
> 
> The other day when i was out with my friends, they were making fun of guys starting to bald or balding.
> 
> It's not fair that we have to experience hairloss. I know you might think I have nothing to worry about because I have thick hair. *But a good hairline frames your face. When it starts to receed, the face starts to look longer.*


 Youre being very generous with that statement. When it starts to recede, your face starts to look like SHIT and only gets worse there after.

Good luck getting laid as easily with that fvcking gift from god.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Youre being very generous with that statement. When it starts to recede, your face starts to look like SHIT and only gets worse there after.
> 
> Good luck getting laid as easily with that fvcking gift from god.


 Yeah, I am basically contemplating taking fin.

But this is it, I ****ing hate the fact that in order to not be ridiculed, I have to take a drug that could potentially **** my endocrine system.

----------


## Artista

*YeahYeahYeah,  Hellouser*, 
As it has been said,,HTs are not for everyone but for those that ARE good candidates for HTs, everyone's needs are completely individualistic. 
Now keep in mind, If you were to review doctor's 'photo albums'  like say, that of *Hasson and Wong*, you would see fantastic work with the use of FUT strip surgery.  Keep in mind that HTs are *no where near being  'cures*'  but realistically speaking they are *IMPROVEMENTS.*
My personal view is that H&W has set the gold-standard regarding strip surgery (not to take anything away from all the other great IAHRS doctors, like Dr Panine)  FUT surgery historically will give you so much more than a conventional FUE could. Less expensive too.
But having  a great strip surgery IMPROVEMENT would still leave you with  strip scarring and depending on the patient, that could be a real headache.
 Dr Wesley approaches this new Pilofocus FUE procedure in such a way as to *RIVAL or even out do FUT HT*s.  Regardless as to how well the donor  regrowth/regeneration  turns out to be guys , Dr Wesley's new method just may be the HT game-changer we have spoken of so many times before.  Don't expect miracles and dont expect disasters. It is all going to be ok.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

The other day was chatting to a woman, I just told her:

"Why should I accept hairloss, when you women are so obssessive over your hairstyle? How would you like it if you lost your hair and couldn't have the same hairstyles as the girls in cosmo"

She understood.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> *YeahYeahYeah,  Hellouser*, 
> As it has been said,,HTs are not for everyone but for those that ARE good candidates for HTs, everyone's needs are completely individualistic. 
> Now keep in mind, If you were to review doctor's 'photo albums'  like say, that of *Hasson and Wong*, you would see fantastic work with the use of FUT strip surgery.  Keep in mind that HTs are *no where near being  'cures*'  but realistically speaking they are *IMPROVEMENTS.*
> My personal view is that H&W has set the gold-standard regarding strip surgery (not to take anything away from all the other great IAHRS doctors, like Dr Panine)  FUT surgery historically will give you so much more than a conventional FUE could. Less expensive too.
> But having  a great strip surgery IMPROVEMENT would still leave you with  strip scarring and depending on the patient, that could be a real headache.
>  Dr Wesley approaches this new Pilofocus FUE procedure in such a way as to *RIVAL or even out do FUT HT*s.  Regardless as to how well the donor  regrowth/regeneration  turns out to be guys , Dr Wesley's new method just may be the HT game-changer we have spoken of so many times before.  Don't expect miracles and dont expect disasters. It is all going to be ok.


 So does that mean I have to take fin and kill my dick to make the scarless procedure wothwhile?

----------


## sausage

> To be honest bro, like you I am approaching my 30s. I ****ing hate how some guys have like zero hairloss at all. By that, no recession.
> 
> The other day when i was out with my friends, they were making fun of guys starting to bald or balding. The poor guys.
> 
> It's not fair that we have to experience hairloss. I know you might think I have nothing to worry about because I have thick hair. But a good hairline frames your face. When it starts to receed, the face starts to look longer. It's like torture.


 Man, I am bald as ****.........imagine how I feel, balding at 16, day in day out worrying about my baldness, getting abuse regularly, becoming reclusive, hating having my photo taken, now I am approaching the age where you really need to settle down with a girl, get married........but I am in a mess, too embarrassed, low self-esteem, to be able to go find someone. 

Yes it is annoying seeing 50-60 year old men with thick heads of hair......it is fecking annoying.......not cos I want them to be bald.....but the fact god has allowed them to have a thick head of hair at 50 years old and me to lose mine at 16. They are all probably laughing inside when they see young bald people when they at 50 still have as much hair on their heads they could make a fur coat out of it.

----------


## hellouser

> The other day was chatting to a woman, I just told her:
> 
> "Why should I accept hairloss, when you women are so obssessive over your hairstyle? How would you like it if you lost your hair and couldn't have the same hairstyles as the girls in cosmo"
> 
> She understood.


 Thats not even bringing up the countless magazines that cater to women's obsession on aesthetics, both for themselves and the review of men not ONLY on hair. Shoes, clothes, makeup, jewelry, etc.

Take away a woman's hair and she'll be RIGHT PISSED.

Perhaps they should have the privilege of being BALD/BALDING since women's needs are **ALWAYS** addressed seriously and with empathy which turns to RESULTS. Nobody, EVER give a rats FVCK about men.

God DAMN IT this disease is pissing me off! I'm not depressed because of it, I'm god damn FURIOUS.  :Mad:

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Man, I am bald as ****.........imagine how I feel, balding at 16, day in day out worrying about my baldness, getting abuse regularly, becoming reclusive, hating having my photo taken, now I am approaching the age where you really need to settle down with a girl, get married........but I am in a mess, too embarrassed, low self-esteem, to be able to go find someone. 
> 
> Yes it is annoying seeing 50-60 year old men with thick heads of hair......it is fecking annoying.......not cos I want them to be bald.....but the fact god has allowed them to have a thick head of hair at 50 years old and me to lose mine at 16. They are all probably laughing inside when they see young bald people when they at 50 still have as much hair on their heads they could make a fur coat out of it.


 I am empathetic mate.

Have you thought about wearing a wig, you have nothing to lose.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Thats not even bringing up the countless magazines that cater to women's obsession on aesthetics, both for themselves and the review of men.
> 
> Take away a woman's hair and she'll be RIGHT PISSED.
> 
> Perhaps they should have the privilege of being BALD/BALDING since women's needs are **ALWAYS** addressed seriously and with empathy which turns to RESULTS. Nobody, EVER give a rats FVCK about men.
> 
> God DAMN IT this disease is pissing me off! I'm not depressed because of it, I'm god damn FURIOUS.


 Yeah such bullshit.

And the worse thing is women will discriminate against guys that are losing their hair. How the **** would they like it, if it happened to them, with guys than telling them "no hun, you are not hot enough for me - you are bald."

****ing hair transplant doctors, and scientist. All full of shit for not working hard enough to bring a better alternative to propecia out.

----------


## sausage

> I am empathetic mate.
> 
> Have you thought about wearing a wig, you have nothing to lose.


 My reply to that, in the greatest respect.

F*CK THAT!!!!!

I couldn't think of anything more humiliating than wearing a wig.

I'd rather run around the street repeatedly shouting "look at me I am a ****ing bald twat"

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## yeahyeahyeah

> My reply to that, in the greatest respect.
> 
> F*CK THAT!!!!!
> 
> I couldn't think of anything more humiliating than wearing a wig.
> 
> I'd rather run around the street repeatedly shouting "look at me I am a ****ing bald twat"


 I understand. 

Elton John wears one, looks quite good.

Just use it to get a wife, then ditch it. If girls can deceive us wearing make up, why shouldnt you.

----------


## hellouser

> Yeah such bullshit.
> 
> And the worse thing is women will discriminate against guys that are losing their hair. How the **** would they like it, if it happened to them, with guys than telling them "no hun, you are not hot enough for me - you are bald."
> 
> ****ing hair transplant doctors, and scientist. All full of shit for not working hard enough to bring a better alternative to propecia out.


 I have one of my coworkers telling me on occassion I have little hair, in regards to my hairline, but I know im thinning as well. She says it likes its nothing.

If I say *anything* about her being fat or her greying hair, I'll be fvcking CASTRATED and FIRED for my comment. But women, yeah... its TOTALLY fine for them to trash you for it. Fat bitches could easily hit the treadmill or get a dye for their hair or makeup to cover the ugly. There is NOTHING we can do about our genetics, yet they feel as if they are allowed to SHIT ON MEN without repercussions. Double standards bullshit. I hate everything about this shit. My parents know im balding, and while my dad is 53 and has a full head of hair, the ignorant dumbass says 'its no big deal'... yeah, im only single and 29 and looking worse each year... its NO BIG DEAL.

----------


## sausage

Yes women can be as bad as men in commenting on hairloss, especially one that has been drinking........if you said something negative about them they would fecking hate it....but it is alright for them to say sh*t to you.

Same with blokes at work, they mention something to do with my hair now and then. I just play along or block it out, although inside I am thinking "you di*ks". 2 of them are obese and eat shit loads of junk food, if I said something about them being fat fecking bastards I don't think they would take it well. I may try it out oneday to see what reaction I get.

I am not one for taking the piss out of people to their face, yeah I'd say something behind their back.....everyone does. But saying something to someone's face about their looks is out of order. I feel awkward making people feel bad........why do so many people enjoy it.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I have one of my coworkers telling me on occassion I have little hair, in regards to my hairline, but I know im thinning as well. She says it likes its nothing.
> 
> If I say *anything* about her being fat or her greying hair, I'll be fvcking CASTRATED and FIRED for my comment. But women, yeah... its TOTALLY fine for them to trash you for it. Fat bitches could easily hit the treadmill or get a dye for their hair or makeup to cover the ugly. There is NOTHING we can do about our genetics, yet they feel as if they are allowed to SHIT ON MEN without repercussions. Double standards bullshit. I hate everything about this shit. My parents know im balding, and while my dad is 53 and has a full head of hair, the ignorant dumbass says 'its no big deal'... yeah, im only single and 29 and looking worse each year... its NO BIG DEAL.


 tell me about it.

I am a NW2 atm, but I reckon I will probably settle down with the next girl I find as I know I have an expiry date. If I had a full head of hair, like these women - I would be playing the field and taking my time.
**** you hairloss. **** you.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> tell me about it.
> 
> I am a NW2 atm, but I reckon I will probably settle down with the next girl I find as I know I have an expiry date. If I had a full head of hair, like these women - I would be playing the field and taking my time.
> **** you hairloss. **** you.


 To add, I am so pissed off at Aderans.

They had 10 ****ing years. 

So much investment and still ****ed up.

----------


## hellouser

> Yes women can be as bad as men in commenting on hairloss, especially one that has been drinking........if you said something negative about them they would fecking hate it....but it is alright for them to say sh*t to you.
> 
> Same with blokes at work, they mention something to do with my hair now and then. I just play along or block it out, although inside I am thinking "you di*ks". 2 of them are obese and eat shit loads of junk food, *if I said something about them being fat fecking bastards I don't think they would take it well. I may try it out oneday to see what reaction I get.*
> 
> I am not one for taking the piss out of people to their face, yeah I'd say something behind their back.....everyone does. But saying something to someone's face about their looks is out of order. I feel awkward making people feel bad........why do so many people enjoy it.


 Do it. You're saying it to a man, you won't get written up. Employment laws benefit women (except financially, theyre screwed there as they dont get equal pay)

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Do it. You're saying it to a man, you won't get written up. Employment laws benefit women (except financially, theyre screwed there as they dont get equal pay)


 Socially women have the upper hand in like every way.

Dating.
Employment laws.

Blame feminism guys.

----------


## hellouser

> To add, I am so pissed off at Aderans.
> 
> They had 10 ****ing years. 
> 
> So much investment and still ****ed up.


 Yup. 10 years is incompetence at its best. And to think their slacking wouldnt come with consequences... and when it did, they didn't think to have a backup plan for investors and funding.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Yup. 10 years is incompetence at its best. And to think their slacking wouldnt come with consequences... and when it did, they didn't think to have a backup plan for investors and funding.


 I reckon a lot of these start ups are scam.

It wont surprise me if Ken Washenik deliberately delayed things so that he could pocket money out of the venture.

----------


## sausage

I don't know if I get picked on more than the average bald man or if it's...

Something to do with my personality....I don't react to the shit I get so they think it's ok.

Or 

I just happen to be around the wrong people at the wrong time.

Or

My hairloss stands out more that people feel they have to say something.

Or

People think I am good looking for a bald guy that it won't offend me by saying rude things.

I doubt it is the latter.

It is probably a simple fact that all bald guys get regular abuse.

----------


## hellouser

> I don't know if I get picked on more than the average bald man or if it's...
> 
> Something to do with my personality....I don't react to the shit I get so they think it's ok.
> 
> Or 
> 
> I just happen to be around the wrong people at the wrong time.
> 
> Or
> ...


 The simplest answer is usually the right one.

----------


## TheSwingingGate

I don't want to hijack this thread, but a few points to round out what is being discussed. 

Fellas, I completely understand and agree to some end about women being judgmental towards male hair loss. It can be maddening and discouraging at times, and the truth is, not fair...i.e. If I woman says "I don't like bald guys", we couldn't turn around and say, "I don't like flat chested women"! There is a double standard.

However, I am a hair colourist, been in the business for 17 years. I have several female clients and co-workers with some degree of hair loss, diffused thinning, receding hair lines, even male pattern baldness on female heads. It might not be as common or to the degree of our loss, but it does affect their confidence, styling options, self image, etc. just like us. It is not just a male problem! They turn to me for answers, I point them in the same direction that we are going.

I work with some HOTT women who date guys with receding hairlines, thinning, etc., they are in their 20's and 30's, and could not care less! However, don't know if this makes you feel better or worse, but they might be judging the size of his wallet, bank account, home, or other attributes, detriments, that have nothing to do with hair!  :Wink:  I guess, we really need to be rich above most things!!!

I personally have been dating a cute girl, who has diffuse thinning in a MPB pattern, she wears her hair long and straight, and does not care! She has never mentioned it, carries herself with confidence, and goes about her day. I don't judge her on her hair, it is not something she can change. I judge her on other things, like when she might cancel a date or something.  :Smile:  

I am not trying to minimize our disease, struggles, or frustration, just wanted to give you some insight from the other side of the fence. It affects men and women, and it is also completely off the radar for SOME women.

We will be judged for life, but not just for hair, for everything topical, money, height, body, accents, beliefs, sense of humour, etc. If hair was the only battle we were fighting, then we would be lucky!

We are all in this together.

Ramble is over!  :Smile:

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I don't want to hijack this thread, but a few points to round out what is being discussed. 
> 
> Fellas, I completely understand and agree to some end about women being judgmental towards male hair loss. It can be maddening and discouraging at times, and the truth is, not fair...i.e. If I woman says "I don't like bald guys", we couldn't turn around and say, "I don't like flat chested women"! There is a double standard.
> 
> However, I am a hair colourist, been in the business for 17 years. I have several female clients and co-workers with some degree of hair loss, diffused thinning, receding hair lines, even male pattern baldness on female heads. It might not be as common or to the degree of our loss, but it does affect their confidence, styling options, self image, etc. just like us. It is not just a male problem! They turn to me for answers, I point them in the same direction that we are going.
> 
> I work with some HOTT women who date guys with receding hairlines, thinning, etc., they are in their 20's and 30's, and could not care less! However, don't know if this makes you feel better or worse, but they might be judging the size of his wallet, bank account, home, or other attributes, detriments, that have nothing to do with hair!  I guess, we really need to be rich above most things!!!
> 
> I personally have been dating a cute girl, who has diffuse thinning in a MPB pattern, she wears her hair long and straight, and does not care! She has never mentioned it, carries herself with confidence, and goes about her day. I don't judge her on her hair, it is not something she can change. I judge her on other things, like when she might cancel a date or something.  
> ...


 To be honest, it isnt about women for me. I feel like I am losing my identity losing hair, in the same way your female clients do.

I did not ask for this shit.

----------


## hellouser

> I don't want to hijack this thread, but a few points to round out what is being discussed. 
> 
> Fellas, I completely understand and agree to some end about women being judgmental towards male hair loss. It can be maddening and discouraging at times, and the truth is, not fair...i.e. If I woman says "I don't like bald guys", we couldn't turn around and say, "I don't like flat chested women"! There is a double standard.
> 
> However, I am a hair colourist, been in the business for 17 years. I have several female clients and co-workers with some degree of hair loss, diffused thinning, receding hair lines, even male pattern baldness on female heads. It might not be as common or to the degree of our loss, but it does affect their confidence, styling options, self image, etc. just like us. It is not just a male problem! They turn to me for answers, I point them in the same direction that we are going.
> 
> I work with some HOTT women who date guys with receding hairlines, thinning, etc., they are in their 20's and 30's, and could not care less! However, don't know if this makes you feel better or worse, but they might be judging the size of his wallet, bank account, home, or other attributes, detriments, that have nothing to do with hair!  I guess, we really need to be rich above most things!!!
> 
> I personally have been dating a cute girl, who has diffuse thinning in a MPB pattern, she wears her hair long and straight, and does not care! She has never mentioned it, carries herself with confidence, and goes about her day. I don't judge her on her hair, it is not something she can change. I judge her on other things, like when she might cancel a date or something.  
> ...


 Your point would be more valid if an equal percentage of women suffered from hair loss as men.

----------


## sausage

great, so cos I am bald and poor...............I am TRULY F*CKED!!!

----------


## TheSwingingGate

YeahYeahYeah, it is not about women for me either my friend. In fact, the get rich, get a tan, get buff thing - I am not a fan of that mantra.

It is about confidence, and the fact that I like having my hair!

So, I agree with you - my point is that, there are women having the same struggle too. Usually, it is about how the feel about themselves as well.

Hellouser, interesting enough, about as many women suffer as males. The difference is the degree. I see miniaturization, recession, diffuse thinning in nearly the same percentages that we experience. However, they might not experience the same AMOUNT of miniaturization or recession - most of my clients do not even realize what is happening to their hair over the years beyond the usual comment of, my hair doesn't "do what it used to". As such, yes, the stigma is not attached.

However, I find it interesting that the hair loss phenomena is affecting everyone.

In any event, I enjoy reading both of your posts, just thought I would chime in.

----------


## sausage

Girls, confidence, self-esteem, no abuse, and a warm protected head.......is what all us baldies want bck.

----------


## hellouser

> Girls, confidence, self-esteem, no abuse, and a warm protected head.......is what all us baldies want bck.


 Funny how hair takes all of that away.  :Mad:

----------


## sausage

> Sausage, I apologize for mis-reading what you said of your age. I'd like to converse  with you further Sausage .. About hair treatment and about England.  My wife and I will be out to your country sometime next year.  I'll request to befriend you here on the forum bro.


 Yo Artista,

Anything you wanna know about England, I assume you are coming here for a holiday? where abouts are you going?

----------


## Joker

Quick question for Artista:

I know this has been beat to death, so feel free not to answer, but I wanted to clarify something about Dr. Wesley's method of regeneration. On past programs, Spencer consistently calls it "theoretical" and says that - after seeing the presentation - he recommended that Dr. Wesley try for regeneration. Dr. Wesley reportedly said something like "Good idea, that might work." From my understanding of your experience, you said the regeneration was "anecdotal," which means it actually was shown in the presentation, we just don't know if it works on everyone. 

So, my question is: is regeneration through this method only "theoretical" or is it actually "anecdotal"? 

Thanks for being such a good help to all of us. Hope we get good information soon!

----------


## Artista

*Hi Joker, It is definitely anecdotal.* Anecdotal because it is still going through its phase testing.  It certainly *is not* theoretic at this point.
Consistency is the big question for this technique. 
Please keep in mind that ,donor hair regrowth has always been a secondary idea during this great new technique of Dr Wesley's.  
By the way everyone,,I just started using *Finasteride* *TODAY*.
I had a great conversation with my regular doctor, he was very *POSITIVE* of its use. I was surprised to hear that he has prescribed it to many of his patients for MPB and he states that *all* (not some) of those patients have had some type of RESULTS.
Some patients had a very minor change and some had  great IMPROVEMENT due to Fin' usage.    
He said that the only side effects present were a small % of his patients experiencing lessening of their ejaculate, but that's all.
Nothing worse than that.
After 3 months I will have my check-up to see how everything is with my health. 
Sorry guys, i don't mean to hijack this thread.   Ill start  my own thread on this topic..I am just so excited to start using Fin' and Ill be sharing that experience with you all too. (im at work ,got to go)

----------


## Pentarou

> By the way everyone,,I just started using *Finasteride* *TODAY*.
> I had a great conversation with my regular doctor, he was very *POSITIVE* of its use. I was surprised to hear that he has prescribed it to many of his patients for MPB and he states that *all* (not some) of those patients have had some type of RESULTS.
> Some patients had a very minor change and some had  great IMPROVEMENT due to Fin' usage.    
> He said that the only side effects present were a small % of his patients experiencing lessening of their ejaculate, but that's all.
> Nothing worse than that.


 That is wise advice, and consistent with the finasteride ten year study.  :Smile:

----------


## Joker

Thanks Artista, that is truly great news. Fingers crossed that things work consistently. A scarless FUT transplant w/ significant regeneration is not a "cure" per se, but damn close in my opinion. Hopefully this is it.

----------


## john2399

> Thanks Artista, that is truly great news. Fingers crossed that things work consistently. A scarless FUT transplant w/ significant regeneration is not a "cure" per se, but damn close in my opinion. Hopefully this is it.


 Lets settle down with the word cure. People get too excited way too fast. It is going to hopefully be a better option and thats it.

----------


## Joker

Fair enough. I agree it's always best to approach any new treatment with caution, and we don't want to be let down if everything isn't perfect, because even if there is no regrowth it's still a huge step forward.

----------


## sausage

Artista has said:

"I have spoken about the donor area regrowth before,,yes there is anecdotal evidence to show impressive regrowth/regeneration of the donor areas...Ive seen it."

But recently he seems to be playing down our expectations so we don't get too excited........I am beginning to thin regen hasn't quite worked out.

----------


## Joker

Sausage, that's going a little overboard. Artista has no way of knowing the most recent results of Dr. Wesley's tests and his comments have stayed quite consistent in my opinion. I just think he is trying to be responsible because with medicine you never know how things will turn out.

----------


## Artista

Hey there *Sausage*,  No worries bro, I have been keeping myself consistent throughout in my approach to this topic. 
Thanks to *Joker* for clarifying as well.
Sausage, I just dont want anyone here to feel as if I have been trying to promote some type of '_cure'._
That is not the case. When I had spoken to Spencer recently he did point out that there are many members here that are paying close attention to my every  word. 
I have been quite honest of my experiences here to date. I really dont want everyone to think that Dr Wesley is preparing to sell some type of 'cure' to you ..
Yes I was and still am very impressed with what I have witnessed but I personally am not expecting a 'cure' of sorts. 
I am hoping for this  great new approach to bring FUE hair transplantation to a higher level of achievement. (a game-changer) If in the process the donor area can achieve REGROWTH as well..FANTASTIC. 
You must keep in mind that I cannot share everything shared with me about that particular process.  The Dr will do that himself in October. 
Hang in there guys,,we are all in this together.

----------


## Artista

By the way *Sausage*, My wife and I plan to fly into London (LHR),
 of course.
From there we may drive out to Bristol and then up to Manchester. I would like to be around the regular Brits and not spend a huge amount of time in the touristy areas of England.

----------


## sausage

No worries, I get ya, some ppl maybe were going over the top.

I am impatient as hell. Whatever the news in October.....that is when I make a decision whether to have standard FUE, have Pilofocus, or if the worst comes to the worst......consider SMP.


That is interesting that you are coming over more for a social thing than for sightseeing......It is also interesting that you mentioned Bristol but not Bath, which as you probably know is very close to Bristol.....Bath is probably the, or one of the most beautiful City's we have.....but I guess it is fairly touristy.

----------


## clarence

> Thanks Artista, that is truly great news. Fingers crossed that things work consistently. A scarless FUT transplant w/ significant regeneration is not a "cure" per se, but damn close in my opinion. Hopefully this is it.


 Pilofocus, unfortunately, is nothing like a FUT. A FUT leaves you with density very close to the original density in the donor, despite no regeneration.

----------


## Artista

Clarence, Current FUE surgery by any clinic has not been comparable to FUT surgery, you are correct. Apparently you might be unaware as to what Dr Wesley has been developing for many many months now.  When October is here you might be quite surprised as to what Pilofocus may have available to us all. Dr Wesley will be making his presentation at the San Francisco conference .

----------


## clarence

> Clarence, Current FUE surgery by any clinic has not been comparable to FUT surgery, you are correct. Apparently you might be unaware as to what Dr Wesley has been developing for many many months now.  When October is here you might be quite surprised as to what Pilofocus may have available to us all. Dr Wesley will be making his presentation at the San Francisco conference .


 Artista, I was referring to issues with the donor area, when I said "unfortunately". Some of us simply value the hair density in the donor area too much to ever have a FUE, *even if it would be scarless and provide 100&#37; yield*.

Forum members just seem to forget about this fact when they keep telling me FUT surgeons are butcherers and FUT should be banned, as some like to tell me. But those who don't mind too much the reduction in hair density in the donor area will be thrilled to have Dr. Wesley's pilofocus as an option.

----------


## hellouser

I'd trade my hair density up top and hairline for the entire back of my neck and sides in a heart beat. Perhaps thats what Pilofocus could do, essentially? Remove so much from the donor all around as to leave it thinning but have the top at NW2 level?

----------


## Artista

I seriously  contemplated having FUT surgery done by a well qualified and experienced IAHRS surgeon very recently.  I almost went through with it. When I had been  educated through Dr Wesley's PowerPoint presentation this past May, I decided to hold off.  Qualified IAHRS doctors are not butchers , regardless of which type of surgery they do. There are plenty of butchers out there though and if one does not use their due diligence in researching HT docs they will get what they paid for

----------


## clarence

> I'd trade my hair density up top and hairline for the entire back of my neck and sides in a heart beat. Perhaps thats what Pilofocus could do, essentially? Remove so much from the donor all around as to leave it thinning but have the top at NW2 level?


 With FUE, unlike with FUT, you always have that trade-off. Too bad the last two decades have given us little improvement in reducing the visibility of the strip scar. (Otherwise I might have a FUT - in a heartbeat)

----------


## sausage

Decided to watch Spencer Kobren's show which focused on Dr Wesley's new technique......wow! Spencer was very positive about it and sounded fairly confident in regeneration being likely and the regeneration potentially being very good. He thinks it's a game changer!

The technique apparently is so simple he wonders why no1 else has thought of it before. I have tried to think up ideas for what it could be but have no idea....I looked up scarless surgery and it came up with a technique where surgeons enter a natural orifice to get to the particular area......I can't see how that would work with a HT though. I doubt Pilofocus involves sticking something up your rectum to get to your donor area.

I do wonder if more grafts are taken at once, instead of the painstaking graft by graft extraction of current FUE. It would be great if a machine could extract 5000 grafts in one go.

I just hope it is as positive as Spencer thinks it will be......and then hope it is affordable. Even though technically (without financial restraints) I could potentially have as much donor as I wanted transplanted.........with financial restrictions, 5000 grafts with a possible 100&#37; retention rate should be able to give my NW6 head a good make over.

He also talked about the benefit of there being no scaring, although that is a great benefit to have......I think SMP into a FUE scarred donor area would be a decent cover up of the scarring and add density to the donor area. If I was to get current FUE I would like to think that a surgeon would be happy to extract more donor than usual if I was happy to fill in the scarred and bare areas with SMP. This would be quite important to me being a NW6 with below average donor.

I would like to get on Dr Wesley's waiting list asap before it gets flooded with people wanting Pilofocus.

----------


## hellouser

> Decided to watch Spencer Kobren's show which focused on Dr Wesley's new technique......wow! Spencer was very positive about it and sounded fairly confident in regeneration being likely and the regeneration potentially being very good. He thinks it's a game changer!
> 
> The technique apparently is so simple he wonders why no1 else has thought of it before. I have tried to think up ideas for what it could be but have no idea....I looked up scarless surgery and it came up with a technique where surgeons enter a natural orifice to get to the particular area......I can't see how that would work with a HT though. I doubt Pilofocus involves sticking something up your rectum to get to your donor area.
> 
> I do wonder if more grafts are taken at once, instead of the painstaking graft by graft extraction of current FUE. It would be great if a machine could extract 5000 grafts in one go.
> 
> I just hope it is as positive as Spencer thinks it will be......and then hope it is affordable. Even though technically (without financial restraints) I could potentially have as much donor as I wanted transplanted.........with financial restrictions, 5000 grafts with a possible 100% retention rate should be able to give my NW6 head a good make over.
> 
> He also talked about the benefit of there being no scaring, although that is a great benefit to have......I think SMP into a FUE scarred donor area would be a decent cover up of the scarring and add density to the donor area. If I was to get current FUE I would like to think that a surgeon would be happy to extract more donor than usual if I was happy to fill in the scarred and bare areas with SMP. This would be quite important to me being a NW6 with below average donor.
> ...


 Here's the best part about all this:

Consider Pilofocus with regeneration for an overall touch up.

Then consider CB for regrowth of miniaturized follicles.

Then consider dermarolling and wounding with minoxidil.

All that together could and hopefully WILL bring back at least 2 norwood levels of hair relatively QUICKLY.

----------


## sausage

Pilofocus with say 80% regeneration would do it for me personally, no need for any other crap.

TBH I don't know much about the other things you mentioned but my feeling is they are all a load of crap.

I mean, when you have a HT technique that can obtain the donor hair you need to give you a decent head of hair then that is enough for me.

I am not fussed about having the thick head of hair I once had, as long as I get decent coverage, can style it and it looks natural that's it......I am good to go.

If that happens I'll be off on a rampage asking girls out here there and everywhere, I'd be like stuff this, I am making up for the past 5 or so years.

I hope this time next year....that is what I will be doing.

----------


## hellouser

*QUESTION FOR ARTISTA:*

Has Dr. Wesley not considered weekly dermarolling/wounding POST Pilofocus procedure to induce WNT proteins much like Histogen in the donor region?

Has anyone thought of that angle to improve regeneration???

----------


## garethbale

> Pilofocus with say 80% regeneration would do it for me personally, no need for any other crap.
> 
> TBH I don't know much about the other things you mentioned but my feeling is they are all a load of crap.
> 
> I mean, when you have a HT technique that can obtain the donor hair you need to give you a decent head of hair then that is enough for me.
> 
> I am not fussed about having the thick head of hair I once had, as long as I get decent coverage, can style it and it looks natural that's it......I am good to go.
> 
> If that happens I'll be off on a rampage asking girls out here there and everywhere, I'd be like stuff this, I am making up for the past 5 or so years.
> ...


 
you can add a bit of concealer for added density

----------


## FearTheLoss

> you can add a bit of concealer for added density


 screw concealer... get SMP

----------


## sausage

Yeah, I am not a fan of concealer, I'd worry I'd get found out, it's time consuming and messy?

I'd rather have thin hair than have to put concealer on everyday and worry if it looks ok.

----------


## Kiwi

> screw concealer... get SMP


 Would you use it for scar revision?

----------


## sausage

I would if I had a FUT scar.....of course.......it is a cheap and effective way to hide it.......as I said, SMP is ideal for filling in depleted donor and hiding the scars.

Now we have Pilofocus........FUT and FUE could be effectively redundant......no scarring, amazing use of donor hair.

Not sure why people are flooding the Nigam and some random other threads when Pilofocus sounds so positive.....and the positivity is coming from a legit surgeon and Spencer Kobren......baffles me.

----------


## sausage

I am starving myself, selling my Xbox, cancelled my Gym membership, and probably have to sell my car for this Pilofocus.........so in a few months time when it's available I have as much money as possible.

----------


## Artista

Hi *Sausage* .. I understand completely your current point of view. You are very POSITIVE which is a good thing!!
My fingers are also crossed that Dr Wesley's _modus operandi_  will be very successful at some point.(sooner than later) 
Once it does comes to fruition, just like any other procedure, we can expect to see it advance and be improved upon.
* Dr Wesley is very motivated and sincere.*
When it comes to creativity in general terms I think about what Thomas Edison had once said- "I didn't fail. I just found 2,000 ways not to make a light-bulb; I only needed to find one way to make it work". 
The light-bulb was NOT his only achievement as we all know.   :Big Grin:

----------


## sausage

True, but I can't wait for it to be developed further, as you know I am after something asap.

I already have a decent amount of savings but realise this surgery is going to cost me a fair amount of money. I am going to take the positive vibes about Pilofocus and from now on I am going to be motivated to get my body in good shape, build my muscles, and save as much money as I possibly can......until the October announcement, hopefully it will be positive and then I will make a decision on whether I just have standard FUE or I have Pilofocus, book the surgery and keep on with the fitness and money saving regime, so that when I have the surgery/when my hair is back, I am in a reasonable shape financially and physically, looking forward to a positive future.

I just hope this all turns out this way, so that I can get on with my life.

----------


## Artista

Not to mention, Sausage,  that you would probably have to fly out to the states.

----------


## StayThick

> True, but I can't wait for it to be developed further, as you know I am after something asap.
> 
> I already have a decent amount of savings but realise this surgery is going to cost me a fair amount of money. I am going to take the positive vibes about Pilofocus and from now on I am going to be motivated to get my body in good shape, build my muscles, and save as much money as I possibly can......until the October announcement, hopefully it will be positive and then I will make a decision on whether I just have standard FUE or I have Pilofocus, book the surgery and keep on with the fitness and money saving regime, so that when I have the surgery/when my hair is back, I am in a reasonable shape financially and physically, looking forward to a positive future.
> 
> I just hope this all turns out this way, so that I can get on with my life.


 Sausage, how can you work on your muscles if above you mentioned you are canceling your gym membership? I don't think this procedure is going to be in the GHO territory... But I am unsure.

Either way, I agree with all your points. Currently, this is what I am waiting for so I can get it done and move on with my life. Never visit this forum again or search for random, unproven chemicals to mix in my living room.

I really hope Pilfocus is the real deal. My only concern would be hiding the fact I got this done from my co-workers. I wouldn't want anyone to know I got a HT (embarrassing for a 27 yr old) and also because people in my office are clowns and I would instantly be the butt of jokes.

That is my only concern, concealing a procedure from friends and co-workers.

----------


## sausage

> Not to mention, Sausage,  that you would probably have to fly out to the states.


 hmmm, maybe, although isn't Wesley going to be offering this to clinics all around the world?

I would rather get it done by Dr Wesley's clinic, but it all depends on price, waiting time etc.

Clinics usually pay something towards traveling to America so hopefully that would be the case if I came to the USA.

----------


## sausage

> Sausage, how can you work on your muscles if above you mentioned you are canceling your gym membership? I don't think this procedure is going to be in the GHO territory... But I am unsure.
> 
> Either way, I agree with all your points. Currently, this is what I am waiting for so I can get it done and move on with my life. Never visit this forum again or search for random, unproven chemicals to mix in my living room.
> 
> I really hope Pilfocus is the real deal. My only concern would be hiding the fact I got this done from my co-workers. I wouldn't want anyone to know I got a HT (embarrassing for a 27 yr old) and also because people in my office are clowns and I would instantly be the butt of jokes.
> 
> That is my only concern, concealing a procedure from friends and co-workers.


 How can I build muscles without a gym membership?........I have my own weights at home, can run down the street to keep fit, etc.......

Gho territory?.....Gho, I am unsure about, people question his regeneration percentages, his prices are sky high, he can only do on average 1400 grafts a session and won't do more than one session a year......ok if you have a small area to fill, but for me as a NW6......it is no good. The only way I could see it being a benefit is if I get 3000-4000 grafts FUE with another clinic, which is probably my limit.....then go to Gho and see if he will be willing to use up more donor seeing as he is supposed to be able to regenerate most of it....and get 1400 grafts into the crown......but as I said, 1400 grafts as far as I remember is like £7,000+. That on top of the 3000-4000 grafts is going to be waaay to much for my liking.

Pilofocus by the sounds of it, simply based on graft retention and the fact it doesn't scar, means that you can use more donor hair than standard FUE, how much more, I don't know, but even if it is just 500 grafts, then that + 20-30% extra graft retention than standard FUE is going to give people an extra 1500 grafts worth of coverage. That is a decent improvement in the world of HT's. If on top of that there is just 20% regeneration, then that with the benefits I mentioned above would be enough for me to cover my NW6 sufficiently with about 6000 grafts. If regen is much higher than 20%, then hallelujah my brother, hallelujah......

----------


## Artista

Your right *Sausage*, 
Dr Wesley will not withhold any training once it is all said and done. 
Hey man there is something that Id like to tell you about travel but not on this thread.  If you have any way that I could contact you, let me know bro'

----------


## StayThick

> How can I build muscles without a gym membership?........I have my own weights at home, can run down the street to keep fit, etc.......
> 
> Gho territory?.....Gho, I am unsure about, people question his regeneration percentages, his prices are sky high, he can only do on average 1400 grafts a session and won't do more than one session a year......ok if you have a small area to fill, but for me as a NW6......it is no good. The only way I could see it being a benefit is if I get 3000-4000 grafts FUE with another clinic, which is probably my limit.....then go to Gho and see if he will be willing to use up more donor seeing as he is supposed to be able to regenerate most of it....and get 1400 grafts into the crown......but as I said, 1400 grafts as far as I remember is like £7,000+. That on top of the 3000-4000 grafts is going to be waaay to much for my liking.
> 
> Pilofocus by the sounds of it, simply based on graft retention and the fact it doesn't scar, means that you can use more donor hair than standard FUE, how much more, I don't know, but even if it is just 500 grafts, then that + 20-30% extra graft retention than standard FUE is going to give people an extra 1500 grafts worth of coverage. That is a decent improvement in the world of HT's. If on top of that there is just 20% regeneration, then that with the benefits I mentioned above would be enough for me to cover my NW6 sufficiently with about 6000 grafts. If regen is much higher than 20%, then hallelujah my brother, hallelujah......


 Sausage...lets say regeneration is greater than 20%, are you stating the possibility of getting 6,000 grafts in one mega session? Or like GHO, do you think Wesley would cap out the number grafts he would do and you would have to return for multiple sessions?

I'm currently a diffuse NW2.5 at the moment, but if I can avoid "multiple" HT sessions I would definitely like too. I can't deal with the shaving and embarrassment more than 1 time.

If I do Pilofocus, what from you gather and my current NW, would it be possible to have one large session under this technique or like standard FUE will I need to comeback for more grafts???

Jesus, I just want to fill in my hairline and dense back the top of my scalp. If I could do that in one session I would essentially be cured for the time being...

----------


## hellouser

> Jesus, I just want to fill in my hairline and dense back the top of my scalp. If I could do that in one session I would essentially be cured for the time being...


 If dermarolling and CB pull through,  you may only need the hairline work  :Smile:

----------


## StayThick

> If dermarolling and CB pull through,  you may only need the hairline work


 True. But I don't have much faith in CB Hellouser.

Nobody knows the correct vehicle and its just another experimental that I believe will also die down like RU.

I was going to try it from Iron Dragon, but I don't even know how it will arrive (premade or powder form). I want a permanent fix and CB is way too unknown.

Are you on CB currently? Would you buy it from ID?

----------


## sausage

> Your right *Sausage*, 
> Dr Wesley will not withhold any training once it is all said and done. 
> Hey man there is something that Id like to tell you about travel but not on this thread.  If you have any way that I could contact you, let me know bro'


 For some reason your not allowed to pass on contact details on the forum. So I am not sure how we can get around that  :Confused:

----------


## sausage

> If I do Pilofocus, what from you gather and my current NW, would it be possible to have one large session under this technique or like standard FUE will I need to comeback for more grafts???


 To be honest I have no idea about how many grafts Pilofocus may be capable of doing in one session. I would like to think it is at least as much as current FUE, so around 3000-4000 grafts. If it's limited like Gho's technique, then I am pretty screwed. 

Artista knows more about it than me, he went to a conference about it. He can tell us small details......Hopefully he is able/aloud to tell us how many grafts are possible to transplant in one session?

----------


## Westonci

At my current hairloss level, Pilofocus+ CB-031 would cure my baldness.

----------


## Sogeking

Hey guys so the announcment is due in Octover?
If this pulls through I am getting this done, and then I am travelling to Japan or South Korea to woo young beautiful Asian women. Well not treally I'm going to find one special  :Big Grin:   :Big Grin: .
Man I would really like this to be something, but past experiences have thought me that life of MPB sufferers is a life of disappointments.  :Smile:

----------


## sausage

> Hey guys so the announcment is due in Octover?
> If this pulls through I am getting this done, and then I am travelling to Japan or South Korea to woo young beautiful Asian women. Well not treally I'm going to find one special  .
> Man I would really like this to be something, but past experiences have thought me that life of MPB sufferers is a life of disappointments.


 Your off to get a Thai Bride?

----------


## hellouser

> Your off to get a Thai Bride?


 Make sure its a woman.

----------


## Artista

> To be honest I have no idea about how many grafts Pilofocus may be capable of doing in one session. I would like to think it is at least as much as current FUE, so around 3000-4000 grafts. If it's limited like Gho's technique, then I am pretty screwed. 
> 
> Artista knows more about it than me, he went to a conference about it. He can tell us small details......Hopefully he is able/aloud to tell us how many grafts are possible to transplant in one session?


 My experience with Dr Wesley was specifically  from his PowerPoint presentation. I didn't go to a conference Sausage. I have been in contact with him as well.  
If you have heard Spencer Kobren's speak about his impressions of the same 'PowerPoint' presentation on his live show,  I would say that I am in total agreement with Spencer.
I would suggest to everyone that you not speculate too much as yet. 
Dr Wesley will be explaining it all at the conference in October. 
I UNDERSTAND all of your frustrations brothers!  
I do FEEL that Dr Wesley will offer something special to us all based on what I have witnessed. 
(it would be great if the Finasteride did a great job to improve my scalp! Enough so that i wouldnt feel the need for surgery, but I will not speculate either-lol)

----------


## Sogeking

> Your off to get a Thai Bride?


 Nope. Japanese or South Korean. Please no follow up questions why not North Korean. Thats a stale joke  :Big Grin: .

@hellouser
Trust me if I get Japansese or South Korean bride it will definetly be a woman  :Big Grin: .

@Artista
I get it man. And honestly being a pessimist that I am, I am expecting a move forward but I am still expecting the problem with limited donor, and really small donor regen. I am sorry. But it is still a move forward. We'll see in October, till then good luck with your treatments. I am not taking Finasteride didn't want to risk it. But wish you all the luck with it.

----------


## Artista

Hi Sogeking  I completely understand your point of view on this. 
Regardless as to  what degree it takes us all exactly, it certainly may be a *positive move forward in hair restoration. 
*

----------


## sausage

Yo Guys,

Dr Wesley got back to me:

"Thanks for your inquiry.  While I do believe that piloscopy will ultimately enable patients to wear their hair even shorter than the current length that you have it, it will still be a few more months until we can even begin to use it for small sessions (50-100 grafts).  I anticipate FDA clearance for the device at some point towards the end of this year.  At that point, we will perform small sessions (50-100 grafts at most) to analyze the growth of transplanted hair and the possible regeneration in the donor area.  During my initial trial in the fall of 2011 I was not able to look at donor regeneration.  Since then, all work has been performed on cadaveric tissue.  So, we haven't been able to gauge any donor regeneration.  While there are other studies performed by other physicians that strongly suggest donor regeneration will work with this method, I'll only know when we have closely investigated it. 

Finally, regarding price, I honestly haven't looked into that at all.  I imagine that it will very closely reflect FUE prices currently charged. I can also tell you that any physician/surgeon who has demonstrated great competence in using this device will be able to perform surgical hair restoration with this method and device.  My goal is not to restrict use of piloscopy to my practice, but rather allow patients to benefit from it in any doctor's practice they feel most comfortable with. "



My feelings about this:

1. Who are these other physicians he mentions, are they working for him, coincidently working on something similar or physicians who have tested something similar in the past? or maybe he means Dr Gho?.....the technique may be similar to his.


2. For me personally, seeing that I need to get something done asap, what worries me the most is the fact studies need to take place to see how much regeneration can be achieved, how long will that take? ......seeing as it supposedly takes 12 months to see the full result of a hair transplant, does that mean they will not know the regeneration possibilities until a year after these trials start?

Artista.....any idea how long you are going to be involved in the trial for?

----------


## Artista

*Sausage,* I do not know what the length of time will be for me..Ill be scheduled in a few months for the trial session but thats all I know right now. It was very nice of Dr Wesley to have sent you a response..thanks for sharing it.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> *Sausage,* I do not know what the length of time will be for me..Ill be scheduled in a few months for the trial session but thats all I know right now. It was very nice of Dr Wesley to have sent you a response..thanks for sharing it.


 How will Dr. Wesley speak on the regeneration aspect in October if the next trail session won't even be started yet?

----------


## sausage

> How will Dr. Wesley speak on the regeneration aspect in October if the next trail session won't even be started yet?


 Based on what he wrote to me.......he obviously won't be announcing that Pilofocus can regenerate, unless they are planning on testing some people a few weeks before, and can somehow see regeneration within those few weeks, but that would be a bit of a rush......very unlikely.

I have a feeling we won't be told much more than we already know, I am guessing the only main thing we will learn is how Pilofocus works ie. How grafts are extracted.

It sounds like it won't be available until sometime next year. Depends on how long these trials for regeneration take or whether they are happy to start using Pilofocus earlier, and not wait for the regeneration results, so anyone who is not too fussed about regeneration can go and have scarless surgery.

From my point of view, I think it is pretty much certain that:

1. It is scarless.
2. The graft retention is good, better than FUT and current FUE.

Any other bonuses like surgery time, amount of grafts in a session, regeneration and yet to come to fruition.......

----------


## Joker

Hmmm.... Dr. Wesley's response suggests he hasn't looked into donor regeneration at all. Artista, are you sure you saw what you saw?

----------


## hellouser

> Hmmm.... Dr. Wesley's response suggests he hasn't looked into donor regeneration at all. Artista, are you sure you saw what you saw?


 It suggests someone else has looked into donor regeneration...

----------


## Joker

My interpretation of Dr. Wesley's statement is that the other doctors are doctors like Gho, Cole, Nigam and Mousseigne, not doctors who have used the Pilofocus procedure. The problem is that all doctors who have claimed donor regeneration have not shown convincing proof of true regeneration (i.e. full follicle growth in both donor and recipient areas). Based on the results of these doctors, unless Dr. Wesley has done a lot more research into this area than he is letting on, I think people will be pretty disappointed if they are hoping for donor regeneration (those with more reasonable expectations should still be pretty excited).

----------


## sausage

> I wouldnt give out any % numbers (I cant) but I can say this,,i was* very IMPRESSED* with those study results of the donor areas ,,Spencer would concur with that.


 Yeah, I am a little confused now......

Dr Wesley's email to me said he hadn't looked at the donor area......but Artista said he was impressed by the studies on the donor area. ???

----------


## Artista

Hey guys keep in mind that The donor regeneration  I have witnessed, Which is the same thing that Spencer had witnessed From the very same PowerPoint presentation Is still very much anecdotal. We have said that all along. I have also said that donor regeneration was never Dr. Wesley's main focus. Scarless FUE done in a new and innovative way IS His main focus. One that may give you The same volume if not more As an FUT surgery would WITHOUT Strip scarring...I'm not trying to minimize the idea of regeneration/regrowth of the donor area.  The type of treatment he's doing for the donor area is still In it's study phase.  The doctor is only going to discuss what he feels comfortable in discussing,, Just like anybody else.  That's where I come into the picture. If Dr. Wesley were to Schedule me for the beginning of next year, It would not shock me.  Most everything hinges on the FDA as you know. That can change the timeframe in anything planned.. No worries My friends. I saw what I saw presented to me And so did Spencer Kobren Along with a handful of doctors As I was told...

----------


## Joker

Not to belabor the point, but I guess what I'm saying is I don't know how there is even anecdotal evidence if he hasn't tested it yet.

----------


## Joker

And as always Artista, thanks for being attentive to this thread and keeping us updated.

----------


## Artista

Hi Joker, I would imagine that Dr. Wesley Doesn't really want this discussed right now. All I can tell you is this, What Spencer Kobren had said on the live show About the regenerative aspect of the treatment, I'm in 100% agreement. Maybe I shouldn't say anymore about that particular topic~ LOL

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Not to belabor the point, but I guess what I'm saying is I don't know how there is even anecdotal evidence if he hasn't tested it yet.


 have you ever considered the fact that Dr. Wesley isn't allowed to say much in that aspect? and that he isn't going to go around advertising it until he knows what the rate can be consistently?

----------


## hellouser

> have you ever considered the fact that Dr. Wesley isn't allowed to say much in that aspect? and that he isn't going to go around advertising it until he knows what the rate can be consistently?


 Jackpot.

Just like Aderans, Replicel, Histogen and especially Follica have kept very quiet about all their findings. Shit, even Dr. Roland Lauster has been very quiet even since he's basically found the holy grail.... FOR THREE YEARS.

Octoboer and the months following, however, will be very interesting months for us.

----------


## sausage

Everything sounds great.......but I really fear for me on a timescale of when this will be available, with trials still to do, training and implementation, then what will the waiting list be like......will the price be reasonable....etc.....

Could be 1-2 years before I can get this.

I am thinking of possibly saying feck-it I can't wait that long, and that I should just get standard FUE as I can get that within 2 months, but then I'll only be able to extract 3000-4000 hairs and that will be it, the rest will have to be SMP.......Although, in the future, if regeneration is like 80%+ with Pilofocus, I may be able to top up my head with it. But it would have to be at least 80% regen.

Everyone my age right now is getting married, having kids, I am being left behind because of this disease.

----------


## garethbale

> Everything sounds great.......but I really fear for me on a timescale of when this will be available, with trials still to do, training and implementation, then what will the waiting list be like......will the price be reasonable....etc.....
> 
> Could be 1-2 years before I can get this.
> 
> I am thinking of possibly saying feck-it I can't wait that long, and that I should just get standard FUE as I can get that within 2 months, but then I'll only be able to extract 3000-4000 hairs and that will be it, the rest will have to be SMP.......Although, in the future, if regeneration is like 80%+ with Pilofocus, I may be able to top up my head with it. But it would have to be at least 80% regen.
> 
> Everyone my age right now is getting married, having kids, I am being left behind because of this disease.


 It is a pain but if there is regen I would wait, or get some light coverage with Gho in the meantime

Sausage, how old are you?

----------


## Axel

> It is a pain but if there is regen I would wait, or get some light coverage with Gho in the meantime
> 
> Sausage, how old are you?


 He must be 30+... I can relate

----------


## huawei

> Everyone my age right now is getting married, having kids, I am being left behind because of this disease.


 I can tell you right now that you're wrong if you think what's holding you back is your lack of hair.

Get fit, hit the gym, take up some hobbies, work on yourself in general while earning decent money and you will have a far greater chance of getting a women while bald than you would as you are now with a full head of hair.

Thats the bald truth.

----------


## Axel

> I can tell you right now that you're wrong if you think what's holding you back is your lack of hair.
> 
> Get fit, hit the gym, take up some hobbies, work on yourself in general while earning decent money and you will have a far greater chance of getting a women while bald than you would as you are now with a full head of hair.
> 
> Thats the bald truth.


 Well put brah... That's totally true. I workout like a beast and generally speaking it compensates the situation... Also work on your personality and financial indepence and you'll get a decent formula against baldness...

----------


## hellouser

> Well put brah... That's totally true. I workout like a beast and generally speaking it compensates the situation... Also work on your personality and financial indepence and you'll get a decent formula against baldness...


 Money wise theres not much you can do in north america, its very regulated so working the system isnt easy unless you become your own boss. Most business fail.

Gaining weight and muscle isnt possible for everyone either. I've got an extremely fast metabolism... doesnt matter what I do or eat, I can't  bulk up.

----------


## sausage

> I can tell you right now that you're wrong if you think what's holding you back is your lack of hair.
> 
> Get fit, hit the gym, take up some hobbies, work on yourself in general while earning decent money and you will have a far greater chance of getting a women while bald than you would as you are now with a full head of hair.
> 
> Thats the bald truth.


 What!?

I am pretty fit, I have hit the gym, yeah, you can always get fitter and bulkier, yeah I could put on some henchness cos I am not particularly muscley, I don't earn decent money and very likely never will, please don't tell me I can earn good money, no I can't, unfortunately I am not as intelligent and confident as others.

Yes, hair is holding me back, I think I know what is holding me back, also yeah you are right.....my job is also something that is holding me back too because.....

Bald head + shit job = I am ****ed.

Yes, I could try to push myself to go out there and find someone but my confidence because of hair IS holding me back + I am 100% certain it has stopped girls approaching me. When I had hair they were coming to me......pretty regularly at one point over a few years. Now....nothing......although I am not exactly meeting as many people as I did then, In fact I don't meet many woman, job is full of men, housemates, all men, rarely go out drinking.

I am going to try to push myself more to get on with it and do something about it, but I am going to find it hard as my hairloss HAS held me back.

----------


## sausage

> It is a pain but if there is regen I would wait, or get some light coverage with Gho in the meantime
> 
> Sausage, how old are you?


 28 and a half.

----------


## sausage

Went to see Dr Raghu Reddy this evening guys, for a consultation........

Man, London is busy, nice warm day, packed full of tourists, walked from Waterloo to Westminster, London's a great City, so many pretty girls everywhere too.......was thinking to myself, why can't I just get someone like her (to every pretty girl I saw), maybe if I grew some balls I could find someone I'd be happy with............anyway, onto the consultation............

Pretty much just a chat really, on reflection I thought there would be more of a study of my hair, to check for things like minaturisation, I would have thought you would need to look closely for this? He did put a microscope type thing up against my donor region and showed me the density on screen though, maybe he could tell if there was minaturisation with that?

Basically he thinks I only have 1500 grafts worth of donor hair, which when I am a NW6 is obviously not good lol. I was hoping he would say at least 3000. But I am not shocked as I was going into the consultation open minded, not really knowing what donor I had available.

He did mention SMP before I was going to mention it.......he said he recommends it, he agreed with me that hairlines don't look natural with SMP and that he would be happy to give me 1500 grafts into the hairline and then have SMP to do most of the work.......this is just a consideration for me, something I really need to think about, I am definitely not jumping at getting it done, I am very cautious. The only good thing about only having 1500 grafts available is the cost of getting all this done is going to be a lot cheaper than I envisaged although I am not going to get what I had hoped.

I did mention Pilofocus to him, he hadn't heard of it. He seemed reluctant on bringing anything new into his clinic but you never know, if it's easy to implement and clearly a step forward then I am sure he will definitely consider it.

I guess overall Pilofocus is very crucial for me in terms of regeneration if I want to get a good coverage of hair. Ideally I need regeneration to be at least 60% otherwise I think it is game over for me......for a long while, until something finally helps me out.

Depending on the news Dr Wesley brings us in October will make me decide whether I get Pilofocus, get 1500 FUE +SMP, or I just think feck it - I will stay bald.

----------


## FearTheLoss

I don't understand how some people like sausage can only have 1500 grafts available and other people like Jotronic can get 10k grafts....when Jotronic had extreme hair loss

is your density and laxity that bad?

----------


## sausage

> I don't understand how some people like sausage can only have 1500 grafts available and other people like Jotronic can get 10k grafts....when Jotronic had extreme hair loss
> 
> is your density and laxity that bad?


 I was looking at getting FUE, not FUT.

I am a NW6....going onto NW7. Every online consultation I have had came back with comments like 'below average donor'. 

I also just quickly searched Jotronic's hair and his donor looked pretty thick.

TBH I thought I had seen some results that guys had had who seemed to have similar donor density to me and they had at least 3000 grafts.....don't count me on that, I'll have to have a look. Surgeons should have a better eye for it than me though. If I had 3000 grafts available I am sure Dr Reddy would have said so.......whether other surgeons think I have more, I don't know.

If I push Dr Reddy on trying to get 2000 grafts then at a guess he may be happy to do that seeing as he knows I would be getting SMP as well and could fill in the donor with it.

It sucks, but there we go. I am not interested in FUT, it is barbaric IMO, and it won't yield a good enough result for me.

Pilofocus has my focus from now on.

I really need to get myself out of this rut I am in.

----------


## Phatalis

> Money wise theres not much you can do in north america, its very regulated so working the system isnt easy unless you become your own boss. Most business fail.
> 
> *Gaining weight and muscle isnt possible for everyone either. I've got an extremely fast metabolism... doesnt matter what I do or eat, I can't  bulk up.*


 I call bullshit. You CANNOT have a faster metabolism than I do. It's not possible. In the least we're the same man.

It's ****ing HARD but you need to train your body. I'm not huge but I used to be super ****in skinny. 

You need to eat every three hours. I don't know how much you weigh but probably around 3200+ cals a day. 6+ meals a day. wake up eat. 6 9 12 3 6 9 12 sleep.

I cheat and use MRP's and shit. 2-3 and eat meals.. small snacks.

You can gain weight. You're just a hard gainer. Go hit the gym too and lift. Your body will gain and over time become accustomed to the weight gain and you will permanantly be bigger marginally. Maitaining weight is also easier than gaining.

----------


## sausage

This Pilofocus is non-invasive.......

So just been thinking about how it works.......

I came up with.

1. Hair + follicle is sucked out.......not sure if that is possible, would have to be a bloody good suction tool.

2. The tools are so small and thin that they can pick the hair and follicle out without taking any skin away. In other words: It slides down the shaft of the hair so tightly that when it reaches the skin it is hugging the hair so much that it fits down the gap where the hair comes out the skin without taking any skin with it. I stole this idea from someone else who mentioned this.

TBH I think sucking sounds more likely out of these two, even though it sounds far-fetched...

anyone else have any ideas how it may work?

----------


## sausage

Guys, my mind goes round in circles.........

I change my mind weekly on what I want to do to my head....

I am now no longer going to wait for the announcement on Pilofocus, even if it has 100% regeneration it is going to be way to expensive for me.

I have almost decided that I am going to get 1500 or so grafts into my hairline and then get some Micro-pigmentation over my head.

----------


## FearTheLoss

Artista, you may not be able to answer this and maybe Dr. Wesley could...but since this is a scarless procedure, couldn't a norwood 6 get 30ish% or more of his hair from his entire back and sides removed and moved to the top?

It takes 50% of hair lost to notice thinning...and FUE doctors are comfortable removing 30% at least from the donor...so if this was possible it would be able to give _most_ nw6's results like bobman or even better....(obviously hair caliber, color and texture all play factors in how results look too)

sorry if this has been asked..I think this is an idea worth talking about though

----------


## sausage

> Artista, you may not be able to answer this and maybe Dr. Wesley could...but since this is a scarless procedure, couldn't a norwood 6 get 30ish% or more of his hair from his entire back and sides removed and moved to the top?
> 
> It takes 50% of hair lost to notice thinning...and FUE doctors are comfortable removing 30% at least from the donor...so if this was possible it would be able to give _most_ nw6's results like bobman or even better....(obviously hair caliber, color and texture all play factors in how results look too)
> 
> sorry if this has been asked..I think this is an idea worth talking about though


 a personal guess of mine would be .........

that you would be able to take more hair than usual FUE but how much who knows, I guess different surgeons would have different opinions. I think it would also depend on how long you wanted to keep your back and sides.

I have always said that if you are happy to have SMP into the donor area after surgery then a surgeon would hopefully be prepared to take an extra 10%+ from the donor.

I think a NW6 needs at least 5000 grafts get a reasonable look.......which will cost at least £20,000.

----------


## didi

> a personal guess of mine would be .........
> 
> that you would be able to take more hair than usual FUE but how much who knows, I guess different surgeons would have different opinions. I think it would also depend on how long you wanted to keep your back and sides.
> 
> I have always said that if you are happy to have SMP into the donor area after surgery then a surgeon would hopefully be prepared to take an extra 10%+ from the donor.
> 
> I think a NW6 needs at least 5000 grafts get a reasonable look.......which will cost at least £20,000.


 
5000 to get reasonable look?  Its more like 8 000+

----------


## Kiwi

> Guys, my mind goes round in circles.........
> 
> I change my mind weekly on what I want to do to my head....
> 
> I am now no longer going to wait for the announcement on Pilofocus, even if it has 100% regeneration it is going to be way to expensive for me.
> 
> I have almost decided that I am going to get 1500 or so grafts into my hairline and then get some Micro-pigmentation over my head.


 That is not a good idea. If I was you I'd shave down... get the 1500 spread evenly around and then I would get SMP around that over your head. 

That is what I WISH I'd done!!!

----------


## Tomb10

artista,

i was thinking. is it with this methode possible to replace hair of your scalp (not from your back, donor) to your receding hairline? 
Ofcouse the hairs are not resistant against dht, but when you take finasteride en minox you can protect your hair for at least a couple of years. 

when this is possible you don't use your donor, and when balding goes further it looks more natural.

----------


## sausage

> 5000 to get reasonable look?  Its more like 8 000+


 I said reasonable look.......ok I'll say 5000 may be a bit low but 6000 IMO would be enough to make a good enough improvement. 

It's simple....

High hairline......3000 grafts takes you half way to covering the scalp or you could probably stretch it slightly further...

Then 3000 grafts into back half of head.......this area doesn't need to be thick. Just have a thin crown.

----------


## sausage

> That is not a good idea. If I was you I'd shave down... get the 1500 spread evenly around and then I would get SMP around that over your head. 
> 
> That is what I WISH I'd done!!!


 As well as creating a hairline I would be sprinkling the hair over the frontal region.

I am not too fussed about the crown, although I'd rather have a sprinkle there as well. I do still have a small amount of hair in the crown as it stands.

So have you had SMP done.........you don't sound too happy?

Surely you could sprinkle hair on top of the SMP.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I said reasonable look.......ok I'll say 5000 may be a bit low but 6000 IMO would be enough to make a good enough improvement. 
> 
> It's simple....
> 
> High hairline......3000 grafts takes you half way to covering the scalp or you could probably stretch it slightly further...
> 
> Then 3000 grafts into back half of head.......this area doesn't need to be thick. Just have a thin crown.


 Never undestand why people think its ok to have a balding crown.

Women will still see that person as balding with one. The same goes with the HT where the hair is thin.

Defeats the whole point of a HT.

But that's the problem with the HT industry, because they cannot restore men to a NW0, they use the excuse of age related hair to justify their work. When balding is balding.

EDIT: 

The other week I heard a female mate criticise a friend of ours. He is not bald, just has had some hairloss - thinning hair. She goes "men should shave it off".

The trouble is, you have guys getting HT to look like they are balding which makes no difference to their appearance. She will probably think that about you after the HT.

----------


## didi

> Never undestand why people think its ok to have a balding crown.
> 
> Women will still see that person as balding with one. The same goes with the HT where the hair is thin.
> 
> Defeats the whole point of a HT.
> 
> But that's the problem with the HT industry, because they cannot restore men to a NW0, they use the excuse of age related hair to justify their work. When balding is balding.
> 
> EDIT: 
> ...


 

sucks balls when you spend money to sport combover and chick tell you its better off to shave it down....but you cant due to scars

women hate balding head of hair and guys who desperately try to maintain a few hairs...sign of insecurity and weakness

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> you spend money to sport combover and chick tell you its better off to shave it down....but you cant due to scars
> 
> women hate balding head of hair and guys who desperately try to maintain a few hairs...sign of insecurity and weakness


 Only time HT work is if you have minimal loss:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=13047

Like him. He is probably a NW3.

If you are NW3+ the game is over, forget it.

----------


## sausage

> Never undestand why people think its ok to have a balding crown.
> 
> Women will still see that person as balding with one. The same goes with the HT where the hair is thin.
> 
> Defeats the whole point of a HT.
> 
> But that's the problem with the HT industry, because they cannot restore men to a NW0, they use the excuse of age related hair to justify their work. When balding is balding.
> 
> EDIT: 
> ...


 
What, well it's not ok to have a blading crown, I didn't say it was. But when you have limited donor and you don't have enough money to get a massive amount of grafts what are you going to do.......remain bald? Is that better than having a thin crown?

A thin crown really is not a massive issue, if you get your hairline thick and can style it, then you are going to look vastly better than being a bald arsed baboon, The crown can be styled to make it look better, use concealer if you must.

As for defeating the point in a transplant......umm no, you will have hair on your head......that is the point.

By the way I am not getting 5000-6000 grafts done like that......

I have eff all to play with.....2000 grafts is all i can obtain.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> What, well it's not ok to have a blading crown, I didn't say it was. But when you have limited donor and you don't have enough money to get a massive amount of grafts what are you going to do.......remain bald? Is that better than having a thin crown?
> 
> A thin crown really is not a massive issue, if you get your hairline thick and can style it, then you are going to look vastly better than being a bald arsed baboon, The crown can be styled to make it look better, use concealer if you must.
> 
> As for defeating the point in a transplant......umm no, you will have hair on your head......that is the point.
> 
> As for your other comment I don't know what the hell you are on about......of course I'll still be bald after the hair transplant I am only planning on getting a small area covered.
> 
> As for making a difference to my appearance.......sticking a turd on my head would be enough to improve my appearance.


 It's your choice bro, but after having cosmetic surgery myself (other areas):

a) it is painful
b) it is painful
c) it is painful

I just dont want you to go in, have it done, and then find it makes no difference with women after spending x amount. When women think of a guy with a good set of hair, it is normally men with thick hair that can style it. Otherwise unless the balding look suits the guy, they would think that he looks old.

Have you ever thought about wigging it?

----------


## sausage

> It's your choice bro, but after having cosmetic surgery myself (other areas):
> 
> a) it is painful
> b) it is painful
> c) it is painful
> 
> I just dont want you to go in, have it done, and then find it makes no difference with women after spending x amount. When women think of a guy with a good set of hair, it is normally men with thick hair that can style it. Otherwise unless the balding look suits the guy, they would think that he looks old.
> 
> Have you ever thought about wigging it?


 You have totally opposite views to me. 

I don't know what you mean by painful.....short term, long term, what surgeries have you had?

A buzzed full head of hair is a hell of a lot better than a bald head. How can you not think so? 

It is not just about appealing to women, it is about self esteem.

Having a hairline to frame my face would make a massive difference to me.

Wigs........no chance. Wigs repulse me.

----------


## TwoInchCircle

> Never undestand why people think its ok to have a balding crown.


 Ya I don't get that either. I read guys talking all the time on here about how all they care about is their hairline and how they could care less about the crown. As a a guy with thinning only on his crown and nowhere else, I can assure you that it sucks hard too. A receding hairline sucks, sure, but people _always_ consider you "bald" if you have even a little crown loss. 

But hey, if my hairline was going too I'd probably be just as devastated about it too.

----------


## Javert

Soooo about Pilofocus...

----------


## hellouser

> sucks balls when you spend money to sport combover and chick tell you its better off to shave it down....but you cant due to scars
> 
> women hate balding head of hair and guys who desperately try to maintain a few hairs...sign of insecurity and weakness


 Tell the **** to keep using the paintroller to cake on the makeup and hit the gym to lose her fat ass.

See how she feels when the same criticism is launched at her. fvcking hypocrites.

----------


## Westonci

> Tell the **** to keep using the paintroller to cake on the makeup and hit the gym to lose her fat ass.

----------


## hellouser

> 


 LMAO! I love this gif.

But seriously, at least women have SOCIALLY ACCEPTED ways of improving their looks. If a guy does it, its so badly frowned upon. The fvck is that?!

----------


## garethbale

> LMAO! I love this gif.
> 
> But seriously, at least women have SOCIALLY ACCEPTED ways of improving their looks. If a guy does it, its so badly frowned upon. The fvck is that?!


 To be fair, the only (supposed) socially unacceptable thing for guys is hairloss. If a guy gets his teeth fixed, has Botox etc it's accepted.

Are you sure you're just not being a bit over reactive

----------


## hellouser

> To be fair, the only (supposed) socially unacceptable thing for guys is hairloss. If a guy gets his teeth fixed, has Botox etc it's accepted.
> 
> Are you sure you're just not being a bit over reactive


 Teeth apply to both sexes and aren't dependant on sex and neither is botox. However a guy getting botox WOULD be frowned upon.

I'm not being overreactive...... society is.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Teeth apply to both sexes and aren't dependant on sex and neither is botox. However a guy getting botox WOULD be frowned upon.
> 
> I'm not being overreactive...... society is.


 Same with nose jobs etc.

Women don't have to know if you get work done.

----------


## sausage

> See how she feels when the same criticism is launched at her. fvcking hypocrites.


 +1.

If a girl has negative comments to you or others as bald men tell her about her pitfalls. The f**king moose.

----------


## Tomb10

artista,

i was thinking. is it with this methode possible to replace hair of your scalp (not from your back, donor) to your receding hairline? 
Ofcouse the hairs are not resistant against dht, but when you take finasteride en minox you can protect your hair for at least a couple of years. 

when this is possible you don't use your donor, and when balding goes further it looks more natural.

----------


## Artista

Hi *Tomb10*,  Im sorry but I would have no idea if that were possible or not..
It was my personal decision to begin taking _Finasteride_. Of course I did ask* Dr Wesley* if it was alright that i started using the med since i would be a Pilofocus test patient of his later this year. 
He said it would be no problem and if fact he also said that it was a good idea that i give it a try.

*Hey all*, I just wanted to let you all know that I really have nothing  to add to this discussion *at this time.*
Ive shared with you, all that I could actually say about it..there are some aspects of Dr Wesley's method that I (and Spencer Kobren) cannot speak about due to a *confidentiality agreement*.
I cant wait for the time that I will be scheduled for that Pilofocus test later this year...*fingers crossed for us all*.

----------


## adam k

> *Hey all*, I just wanted to let you all know that I really have nothing  to add to this discussion *at this time.*
> Ive shared with you, all that I could actually say about it..there are some aspects of Dr Wesley's method that I (and Spencer Kobren) cannot speak about due to a *confidentiality agreement*.
> I cant wait for the time that I will be scheduled for that Pilofocus test later this year...*fingers crossed for us all*.


 Hey Dave thank you for sharing your experience when Dr. Wesley schedules your phase testing date in Oct/Nov. From what I have heard Dr. Wesley seems to be a gentleman and a scholar. I hope this paves the way for scarless surgery as in the unfortunate case that I progress to a NW 5/6 it is nice that I will be able to consider this.

I hope you enjoy your visit to the UK. Btw I listened to Dear God by XTC today, pretty good!

----------


## Artista

Thank you *Adam*, I feel positive about what can be available for us...
*Adam*,,YES, "Dear God" was one of *XTC*'s more prominent tunes.
Give "Towers Of London" "I'd like That" "Your Dictionary" and  "Books Are Burning"  a listen..you'll like them all my British friend.
By the way, XTC's  *Andy Partridge* is a hair loss SUFFERER  too.

----------


## garethbale

> Thank you *Adam*, I feel positive about what can be available for us...
> *Adam*,,YES, "Dear God" was one of *XTC*'s more prominent tunes.
> Give "Towers Of London" "I'd like That" "Your Dictionary" and  "Books Are Burning"  a listen..you'll like them all my British friend.
> By the way, XTC's  *Andy Partridge* is a hair loss SUFFERER  too.


 XTC's best song is 'Senses working overtime'

----------


## Artista

*garethbale*  I could not agree more ,,thanks!

----------


## Kiwi

> Thank you *Adam*, I feel positive about what can be available for us...
> *Adam*,,YES, "Dear God" was one of *XTC*'s more prominent tunes.
> Give "Towers Of London" "I'd like That" "Your Dictionary" and  "Books Are Burning"  a listen..you'll like them all my British friend.
> By the way, XTC's  *Andy Partridge* is a hair loss SUFFERER  too.


 So it must be more than just scarless FUE????

----------


## Artista

Kiwi     We just have to wait and see..I personally feel confident about what Dr Wesley has been working on.

----------


## Kiwi

> Kiwi We just have to wait and see..I personally feel confident about what Dr Wesley has been working on.


 I'm glad you feel confident... I'm just having a bad day man! 

At some point can you please raise pricing with the doc - I wonder if we can even get some kind of TBT discount or something.

----------


## Artista

To be honest with you Kiwi,  I too have been having a *few bad* days.. Not all of it related to my hair loss but a good portion , yes.   I'm staying positive though ...

----------


## didi

> My experience with Dr Wesley was specifically  from his PowerPoint presentation. I didn't go to a conference Sausage. I have been in contact with him as well.  
> If you have heard Spencer Kobren's speak about his impressions of the same 'PowerPoint' presentation on his live show,  I would say that I am in total agreement with Spencer.
> I would suggest to everyone that you not speculate too much as yet. 
> Dr Wesley will be explaining it all at the conference in October. 
> I UNDERSTAND all of your frustrations brothers!  
> I do FEEL that Dr Wesley will offer something special to us all based on what I have witnessed. 
> (it would be great if the Finasteride did a great job to improve my scalp! Enough so that i wouldnt feel the need for surgery, but I will not speculate either-lol)


 


Artista 

Can you tell us more about this, now you can talk freely since dr wesley publicly presented information at ishrs conference, its just that we dont know what he said there and when it will be availaible, limitations, etc

----------


## Kiwi

> Artista 
> 
> Can you tell us more about this, now you can talk freely since dr wesley publicly presented information at ishrs conference, its just that we dont know what he said there and when it will be availaible, limitations, etc


 Guess not  :Frown:

----------


## Artista

Hello all,,(just woke up- USA time) 
I was never given an 'OK' to speak in depth after Dr Wesley made his presentation in San Fran' guys. 
I would imagine that he is still at the conference ,of course.
 Hopefully  we will be hearing reports from the conference on all of the subjects SOON. 
I remember that Dr Rassman had given rundowns of past conferences on his website,,I wonder if he will do the same regarding  San Fran'.. 
 At some point afterwards, I should be hearing from Dr Wesley once again...(phase testing is coming up!)
Ill share what I can my friends.

----------


## didi

It would be nice to hear from Dr Wesley himself, he could upload presentation on his website or TBT. 


Technique promises to make FUT/FUE obsolete yet no doc  is getting too excited about it.

----------


## Arashi

> Hello all,,(just woke up- USA time) 
> I was never given an 'OK' to speak in depth after Dr Wesley made his presentation in San Fran' guys. 
> I would imagine that he is still at the conference ,of course.
>  Hopefully  we will be hearing reports from the conference on all of the subjects SOON. 
> I remember that Dr Rassman had given rundowns of past conferences on his website,,I wonder if he will do the same regarding  San Fran'.. 
>  At some point afterwards, I should be hearing from Dr Wesley once again...(phase testing is coming up!)
> Ill share what I can my friends.


 Isn't that weird ? He's told the whole world about his technique now, but you're not supposed to share anything at all ? It sounds to me you don't know anything either. Anyway, yes, we should hear something soon, Dr Nigams was there, I know another guy who was there and hopefully some other doctors will report too.

----------


## Artista

I agree with* Didi* ,
_"It would be nice to hear from Dr Wesley himself, he could upload presentation on his website or TBT."_

The PowerPoint discussion that I had with* Dr Wesle*y was held in confidence regarding certain aspects of his technique.
Just as *Spencer Kobren* was also held in confidence.
It is a matter of respect *Arashi*, if I could speak openly I would.

----------


## didi

_"He's told the whole world about his technique now, but you're not supposed to share anything at all"_



His master didnt give him green light to talk but master told the whole world...

----------


## sausage

I thought everything was being revealed this month.......isn't that what we have been waiting months for........complete joke.

----------


## Delphi

You people are ridiculous. The conference is still going on. Do you really think they are rushing to release this information to a bunch of crybabies on a hair loss forum. We'll all find out soon enough. Either way, its not going to change any of our lives today, so what's the rush?

----------


## Arashi

> You people are ridiculous. The conference is still going on. Do you really think they are rushing to release this information to a bunch of crybabies on a hair loss forum. We'll all find out soon enough. Either way, its not going to change any of our lives today, so what's the rush?


 Hehe. If you don't care about info regarding the (near) future in terms of hair loss solutions, then why participate in this section of the forum ?

Dr Wesley's presentation ended yesterday morning. Of course we're all dying for information here, even though I expect pretty much nothing in terms of regrowth, it will still be interesting to hear more about his technique.

----------


## Delphi

> Hehe. If you don't care about info regarding the (near) future in terms of hair loss solutions, then why participate in this section of the forum ?
> 
> Dr Wesley's presentation ended yesterday morning. Of course we're all dying for information here, even though I expect pretty much nothing in terms of regrowth, it will still be interesting to hear more about his technique.


 We're all interested, but come on, we'll get the information when we get it.

----------


## crafter

WELL I HAVE TWEETED EVERY SURGEON ON TWITTER ATTENDING THE MEETING and none have replied with info about Dr Wesley's talk  :Frown:

----------


## Arashi

> We're all interested, but come on, we'll get the information when we get it.


 It all is just one big wet fart. All this tension build up, "24 october Dr Wesley is going to tell the world about his revolutionary technique" we've heard that for months. And then that date passes and ..... nothing. Just silence.

----------


## Number47

For me best remedy for the waiting is talking and assuming about it again lol.

Lets check the patent again and the pictures and we can dream or despair  :Big Grin: 

https://www.google.ch/patents/US2013...ed=0CDgQ6AEwAA


For me the things that comes to my mind is that its like liposuction for follicles or FUE from beneath.

Basically the way i see it Carlos took the principles of suction something like the Neograft machine and used its benefits vice versa! The supposed benefit of the Neograft machine is to use its blades to cut around the follicle and then use suction to remove the follicle without the blades reaching the root where manual FUE supposedly can damage it during the extraction. So basically suction does the rest after cutting the dermis. The obvious drawback is that it still has FUE dot scarring and many surgeons think that suction can damage the follicle while its being pulled

Wesley on the other hand he used the suction principle to suck the hair from underneath ,(there seems to still be something underneath from the way i read the patent that uses blades to isolate and cut around the root of the follicle to allow the force of suction to do the rest) and then uses suction to be able to take them without having to reach the dermis so the superficial scar(white dot) is avoided and the graft ends up in his collection device out of our head. The suction in this case has an easier job to do cause it sucks from the root and the hair just slip through its point of exit back to our head and in his tube and then collector device.

What i dont understand and maybe its because i am reading things wrong from the patent is how you precise the blades from underneath to cut around the follicle root so that suction can do its job? Sounds like blind harvesting at its best.

----------


## Kiwi

> For me best remedy for the waiting is talking and assuming about it again lol.
> 
> Lets check the patent again and the pictures and we can dream or despair 
> 
> https://www.google.ch/patents/US2013...ed=0CDgQ6AEwAA
> 
> 
> For me the things that comes to my mind is that its like liposuction for follicles or FUE from beneath.
> 
> ...


 They use MRI scanning technology. Apparently.

----------


## Arashi

I think if this was something really interesting, we would have heard something by now ...

----------


## fred970

+1 Arashi. I think this was just an other excuse to push for people to delay a classic FUE. "Wait for pilofocus!", "wait for hair cloning!"...

----------


## Javert

Be patient guys! Maybe something will leak soon?

----------


## 67mph

Stiiiill waaaaaaaaiting...

----------


## hellouser

Pilofocus.com should have been updated by now with new relevant information.

----------


## crafter

DR Nigam responded yesterday about Dr WEsleys ishrs presentation.  He said it doesn't create new donor hair and seemed to imply that it is nothing revolutionary.  Afraid I can find the link but I think it's on this forum.

----------


## Javert

> DR Nigam responded yesterday about Dr WEsleys ishrs presentation.  He said it doesn't create new donor hair and seemed to imply that it is nothing revolutionary.  Afraid I can find the link but I think it's on this forum.


 So he's inferring that spencer was excited for no reason? Not sure I'm buying what Nigam is saying..

----------


## john2399

> So he's inferring that spencer was excited for no reason? Not sure I'm buying what Nigam is saying..


 I like dr.nigam but ofcourse he is not going to say anything great about another competitor. Dr.wesley method is atleast scarless, which is better then the regular fue.

----------


## hellouser

> I like dr.nigam but ofcourse he is not going to say anything great about another competitor. Dr.wesley method is atleast scarless, which is better then the regular fue.


 Scarless or not, its still insignificant. If there was enough donor area to bring me back to an NW1 from NW6 or NW7 I'd take even FUT with the strip scar.

Why? Because all the hair I've got will cover it anyway, rendering the scar irrelevant.

So... its time to either demand donor regeneration or tell these butcher surgeons to piss off.

----------


## Number47

> Scarless or not, its still insignificant. If there was enough donor area to bring me back to an NW1 from NW6 or NW7 I'd take even FUT with the strip scar.
> 
> Why? Because all the hair I've got will cover it anyway, rendering the scar irrelevant.
> 
> So... its time to either demand donor regeneration or tell these butcher surgeons to piss off.


 You couldn't be more wrong in this my friend. Scarless can be a revolution, for virgin scalps. The greatest drawback of hair transplants in high norwood's is the scars that make you have to keep your donor area up to a certain length to cover them. Its worst with strip by far but its still an issue with FUE. Leaving the donor long enough(even mm's matter)will always make the top look thin where there in only transplanted hair.

Scarless can give the option to nw6 guys to leave the crown untouched completely. You have some hair on top and in front and you buzz down the sides and crown to the shortest grade to have  a marine style look! The density on top even low will always look thick compared to the closely buzzed sides with no scars.

Maybe a marine look its the only one option but hell you can have a hairline again to frame the face without worrying about the crown and scars showing cause you just buzz it to 0 if its scarless.

----------


## Joker

Dr. Nigam said he wasn't personally impressed with Dr. Wesley's presentation and that regeneration was a secondary goal (something Artista expressed several times) that concerns the use of Acell (something others had guessed beforehand). 

Honestly, I'm disappointed with the whole "Acell" aspect. Dr. Wesley and Spencer intimated there was "strong evidence" that donor hair could be regrown based on studies conducted by other doctors. This is not true. There is no evidence - none - provided by any doctor that suggests Acell can regrow donor hair. 

Believe me, HT's with no donor scars are a HUGE improvement. Revolutionary, honestly. But if Dr. Wesley is delaying the use of Pilofocus in his clinic until he determines whether or not Acell can regrow donor hair, I'm willing to save him a lot of time and effort and very simply say: "No. It will not."

----------


## Joker

Again, maybe there's something I'm missing because Artista said he saw donor regeneration with his own eyes, and I generally trust Artista, but I really feel like maybe there was a miscommunication somewhere in the data/presentation. (Remember that on this forum Dr. Wesley was quoted as saying he had not gauged any donor regeneration to date.)

Who knows - let's all just hang in there and try to wait patiently until the next update. I trust that Dr. Wesley is trying to help us.

----------


## youngin

> Believe me, HT's with no donor scars are a HUGE improvement. Revolutionary, honestly. But if Dr. Wesley is delaying the use of Pilofocus in his clinic until he determines whether or not Acell can regrow donor hair, I'm willing to save him a lot of time and effort and very simply say: "No. It will not."


 Dr. Cole says he is seeing some regeneration using ACell. He's a pretty trustworthy guy too. See his video on youtube.

----------


## Joker

Youngin', I saw Dr. Cole's YouTube video awhile back and I also saw a picture of a donor area that he said regrew with the help of Acell. I saw a very clean looking donor area, but I saw no donor regeneration. 

Dr. Mousseigne was the only person who showed true donor regeneration, but his business partner disappeared before providing any proof of recipient regrowth. No Acell was involved.

----------


## didi

I heard from credible sources that dr wesleys technique is *'amazing' BUT* there are still some barriers ...dont know why dr nigams wasnt impressed, maybe its not on par with his doubling but this surgeon in particular was impressed.

Spence, pls organize interview with dr wesley.

----------


## hellouser

> You couldn't be more wrong in this my friend. Scarless can be a revolution, for virgin scalps. The greatest drawback of hair transplants in high norwood's is the scars that make you have to keep your donor area up to a certain length to cover them. Its worst with strip by far but its still an issue with FUE. Leaving the donor long enough(even mm's matter)will always make the top look thin where there in only transplanted hair.
> 
> Scarless can give the option to nw6 guys to leave the crown untouched completely. You have some hair on top and in front and you buzz down the sides and crown to the shortest grade to have  a marine style look! The density on top even low will always look thick compared to the closely buzzed sides with no scars.
> 
> Maybe a marine look its the only one option but hell you can have a hairline again to frame the face without worrying about the crown and scars showing cause you just buzz it to 0 if its scarless.


 Thats unacceptable.

Basically what your saying is

'Yes, you can get hair, but not enough to wear it long, you'll have to buzz it down.'

I wont accept anything other than a complete solution of any kind. Its 2014 almost and still no cure or legitimate treatment.

----------


## Number47

> I heard from credible sources that dr wesleys technique is *'amazing' BUT* there are still some barriers ...dont know why dr nigams wasnt impressed, maybe its not on par with his doubling but this surgeon in particular was impressed.
> 
> Spence, pls organize interview with dr wesley.


 Hey Didi any info on these barriers?

----------


## Kiwi

acell is bullshit... i had a fut and i think acell was new and its all just a crock of horse dung... i don't think i've got 3700 grafts and i've got a scar. 

pilofocus would be awesome. fut scars suck... simple as that :P

----------


## cp9

Hey Kiwi, where did you get your FUT done? I'm from NZ as well... Did you do it here?

----------


## Artista

*Kiwi*  - "...i had a fut and i think acell was new..."

When *exactly* did you have your FUT surgery done?

----------


## Joker

Artista, anything else you can impart? Looks like we're losing hope fast in here...

Hearing from doc Wesley (or seeing the presentation you viewed) would be really huge.

----------


## StayThick

If it was revolutionary or even a slight game changer, we would have heard something by now.

Propecia and Rogaine. That's all we got folks for the immediate future. Terrible.

----------


## hellouser

> If it was revolutionary or even a slight game changer, we would have heard something by now.
> 
> Propecia and Rogaine. That's all we got folks for the immediate future. Terrible.


 I'm going to vomit at the thought of Finasteride and Minoxidil... 2014 and this garbage is still our best option?

What a god damn failure... these scientists and researchers have got to be some of the most incompetent I've heard of... 30+ years in trying to find a solution and they still haven't got it? You can only laugh at these guys.

----------


## StayThick

> I'm going to vomit at the thought of Finasteride and Minoxidil... 2014 and this garbage is still our best option?
> 
> What a god damn failure... these scientists and researchers have got to be some of the most incompetent I've heard of... 30+ years in trying to find a solution and they still haven't got it? You can only laugh at these guys.


 Couldn't agree more. I'd argue we will see a cure for cancer before scientists can crank the bald gene code.

It's just too complicated for these guys. We hear hints and clues what seems to be every 8-12 months on a possible "cure" yet nothing ever comes to fruition or the companies magically vanish. In fact, I'd go as far and say that information is purposely leaked to inform baldies "hey, we are on it" simply to provide hope. I'd say that makes everything worse because than a false expectation is created. BS. Tired of it. Tired of all of it.

Aside from Propecia, the best available treatments for me were the same ones available prior to my arrival on this earth in the 80's. Disgusting.

----------


## Artista

Hi *Joker* my friend!
First of all, I can understand that  many many many of us here are desperate to fix our hair loss.
I *SO WISH* that one of the upcoming regenerative treatments were available to us all  NOW!!
That being said,,Ive read some of the negative views related to *Dr Wesley's* imminent new Pilofocus method.
Ive also read *Dr Nigam'*s remarks too.
Im not one to get into negative debates or arguments here because it serves no use to any of us.
Ill soon be one of *Dr Wesley's* phase test patients and i cant wait..(maybe next month) 
I wrote to him this morning and am awaiting his response..Until that time I respect the agreement I made with him not to talk in specifics.
*Joker*, dont lose hope brother .. quite frankly Im wondering if *Dr Nigam* saw the SAME presentation that I did? 
Dr Wesley may have only focused on the new tools he has been developing (still is) for this new 'scar-less' procedure.. I have no idea.
None of us were there to back up or to dismiss any of it.
I was and still am very IMPRESSED with Dr Wesley's technology and of its factual outcomes.  *Spencer Kobren* was completely *CORRECT* in his assertions and impressions. :Smile:

----------


## didi

> Hi *Joker* my friend!
> First of all, I can understand that  many many many of us here are desperate to fix our hair loss.
> I *SO WISH* that one of the upcoming regenerative treatments were available to us all  NOW!!
> That being said,,Ive read some of the negative views related to *Dr Wesley's* imminent new Pilofocus method.
> Ive also read *Dr Nigam'*s remarks too.
> Im not one to get into negative debates or arguments here because it serves no use to any of us.
> Ill soon be one of *Dr Wesley's* phase test patients and i cant wait..(maybe next month) 
> I wrote to him this morning and am awaiting his response..Until that time I respect the agreement I made with him not to talk in specifics.
> *Joker*, dont lose hope brother .. quite frankly Im wondering if *Dr Nigam* saw the SAME presentation that I did? 
> ...


 
Artista

Can you ask Dr wesley for permission to talk about scarelss fue since he isnt releasing any info to general public even though he did piloficus presentation at ISHRS meeting. 

Somebody can contact Spencer to talk about it on next radio show, its been a week since ishrs conf and this so called revolutionary ht technology didnt make any news headlines. 

We would like to know whether pilofocus is completly scarless and can you harvest more hair(outside so called safe zone)  compared to FUE/FUT?
 Is it possible to evenly harvest 40&#37; of donor, that would be enough to pull *'marine'* look which most bald guys would be happy with, something which is imposible with fue/fut ...

----------


## tbtadmin

You can all check out the exclusive public premier of Dr. Wesley's Piloscopy presentation LIVE on tonight 's The Bald Truth @ 8pm EST/ 5pm PST.

----------


## Artista

_WHEW_ ,,thanks* Admin*' !!! 
Im glad that it will be a topic of discussion on the live show!!
I may call in if it is possible.. :Smile: 
*Didi,,*will you be able to listen tonight?

----------


## didi

Artista
Ill try, have to see time diff, it will be posted on TBT soon after anyway..

Good if you call in and ask some questions such as when will it go mainstream, price, possibilities and limitations, training other docs, etc

Dr Cole was very impressed with pilofocus, will see

----------


## hellouser

> You can all check out the exclusive public premier of Dr. Wesley's Piloscopy presentation LIVE on tonight 's The Bald Truth @ 8pm EST/ 5pm PST.


 Will this be uploaded to youtube for later viewing? I might not be able to watch it live...

----------


## Number47

Artista can i ask you, did Dr. Wesley ever tried this procedure before on volunteers or are you gonna be from the first people to do it.

----------


## Artista

*Didi,*,are you in England? Spencer's show will be on podcast ,usually a few days after airing but,,I and others will post anything of value asap here on the forum.
*Number47*, (i like that name)
Oh no my friend,,i would not be the first one of this procedure.
There have been many phase test patients , Ive seen the factual data/before and after photos   etc during our *PowerPoint presentation!* 
*Dr Wesley* is still improving upon his tools and mechanics that is why I will be yet another phase test patient..
Im so glad that The Bald Truth live show will be having the * exclusive public premier of Dr. Wesley's Piloscopy presentation*

----------


## Sogeking

Can't watch it, will there be a published recording on baldtruth.com?
I hope it will.
AS for the pilofocus method... Well just having no scars from FUE won't help us much. I am just too sceptical...

----------


## Artista

Hi *Sogeking*, more than likely TBT will publish a section of tonight's show.
Nothing wrong with being skeptical my friend..just as long as your mind is open to all possibilities. 
Quite frankly,This new method  isn't at all just about a 'scar-less' procedure.
 There is a LOT more to it than you know.
This new science of being able to go underneath the skin  in such a way as to* microscopically view a hair follicle's dermal papilla,bulb,the outer root sheath and all of the corresponding stem cells  minutely enough to be able to remove the follicle  as to leave behind enough STEM CELLS that would PROMOTE the regrowth/regeneration of the removed follicle.* (That in conjunction with a particular treatment applied *-Acell!* ) 
The removal of hair follicles in this way has never been done before..The implications and the findings are amazing.
As Didi  has said here,,Dr Cole was IMPRESSED with Dr Wesley's technique.
*Before anyone begins to down play Acell*,,There has been a long standing *negative view* of Acell..
For those that are not aware of Acell.. It has been around *WAY BEFORE* being introduced into hair treatment possibilities.
It has PROVEN to regrow finger tips..muscle, internal organs etc etc..
The introduction of Acell to hair treatment possibilities was just a few years ago. Great doctors like Dr Cole have been working on its application to treatment for hair...but It is still in its adolescents stage guys!
*Some have stated that Dr Cooley CREATED Acell,,but that is FURTHEST from the truth.*
I believe *Dr Cooley* was possibly the first to introduce Acell to hair treatment BUT *he did NOT create Acell*....*The late great Dr. Alan Spievack(RIP) co-created it with his team of experts many years ago now.*
In fact Dr Spievack's brother, *Lee Spievack* was the first person to have had his finger _REGROWN_ after losing it during a mishap.
 He accidentally chopped off that finger by the propeller of a model plane at his hobby shop.
Alan's *"Pixie Dust"* as they lovingly called it, was applied for months and low and behold ,,his finger *REGREW*. *That is factual.*
In 2010 '60 Minutes' had an expos&#233; on *Acell.* The military uses Acell when needed to our wounded veterans from those damned wars of ours. For instance-  They have SAVED damaged muscles that would normally have been removed.  
 Check it out here-
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6711905n

At any rate,,do not dismiss Acell based on loose information  or speculations that you have heard before.
Dr Cole in-particular  is doing a great job at improving upon  its usage.
By the looks of Dr Wesley's before and after photos that I have seem at the PowerPoint presentation he shared with me , the donor hair regrowth/regeneration was *breathtaking!!*  
I dont feel that I am exaggerating..I try to keep myself very objective.

----------


## Number47

Oh man you really let the cat out of the bag with this one...

----------


## sdsurfin

It seems like in essence dr. wesley and nigam are trying to do the same thing, and i'm skeptical but hopeful that either one works.  Pilofocus would essentially be splitting the hair follicle in a way that leaves enough material for regrowth.  I'm assuming Dr. Nigam is not excited about a method that essentially does what his doubling may or may not do, but from the inside.  I personally believe that Nigam has good ideas, but makes way larger claims than what he is actually capable of doing at the moment.  

On a positive note, I think that if Nigam's doubling does work, it may lead to insights as to how to split follicles in the most effective way, and those findings could be used in developing new mechanical technology that works with something like pilofocus.  I'm also not sure what Nigam is injecting or adding to the re-inserted bisected follicle, but it is probably better than Acell, and if Nigams technique proves to work, I think that the hairloss community should demand that pilofocus and NIgams technologies and methods should be used together, instead of branching out and creating two less effective techniques.

On a third note, I wonder why Christiano's findings and engineering of DP groups cannot be used to promote the growth of bisected follicles for now, instead of always trying to grow new ones.  If a 3d grouping of DP cells can grow a new hair with 22 percent gene expression, then why can't such a grouping of cells be injected next to a follicle bisected by Pilofocus or Nigams- surely it would act to make new hair, and the remaining cellular material might make up for the remaining necessary genes.  We would still be left with moving hair from the back of the head to the top, but essentially there would be a cure.  

I would love to have answers from the real researchers concerning these questions, or at least get them to read this, is anyone in contact with people like Jahoda or Christiano or Wesley?

----------


## Artista

Well, i believe that *Spencer* will be very specific on *Pilofocus' new technique.*
I also conversed with him about the possibility of my talking a little more about it here on the forum. 
although I have not heard back from *Dr Carlos Wesley* as yet today, I guess it will be OK with him. I really respect Dr Wesley. He is attempting to bring hair surgery to the next level and I feel he will.
Guys, i must get back into my studio,,much work to do right now but I will be ready for the live show..hang in there brothers!!

----------


## FearTheLoss

What time is the live show and how do we tune in? I want to hear this!

----------


## Number47

> Well, i believe that *Spencer* will be very specific on *Pilofocus' new technique.*
> I also conversed with him about the possibility of my talking a little more about it here on the forum. 
> although I have not heard back from *Dr Carlos Wesley* as yet today, I guess it will be OK with him. I really respect Dr Wesley. He is attempting to bring hair surgery to the next level and I feel he will.
> Guys, i must get back into my studio,,much work to do right now but I will be ready for the live show..hang in there brothers!!


 I understood that you had some go ahead eitherwise you wouldn't let all this out, i am not talking about that when i said the cat out of the bag... but "regeneration" i thought we were waiting for a scarless procedure. That changes the game significantly. Lets hope its not another false promise just for the buzz.

----------


## crafter

can't listen to this in England Can someone please comment on here about it once its over?  thanks

----------


## didi

Pilofocus is same as nigams doubling invivo, the only diff is that dr wesley takes grafts from underneath the scalp and bisects it, top part keeps growing, bottom part gets transplanted...

but if he gets regen wouldnt normal FUE extraction be enough? grafts regrows anyway, hence no scarring

----------


## crafter

> Pilofocus is same as nigams doubling invivo, the only diff is that dr wesley takes grafts from underneath the scalp and bisects it, top part keeps growing, bottom part gets transplanted...
> 
> but if he gets regen wouldnt normal FUE extraction be enough? grafts regrows anyway, hence no scarring


 sounds good.  Is this what he said on Spencer's show?

----------


## mnhair

> Pilofocus is same as nigams doubling invivo, the only diff is that dr wesley takes grafts from underneath the scalp and bisects it, top part keeps growing, bottom part gets transplanted...
> 
> but if he gets regen wouldnt normal FUE extraction be enough? grafts regrows anyway, hence no scarring


 if this is the case, then we have a de facto cure that'll be launched in 2014

----------


## stayhopeful

woah. what are these lofty declarations posters are asserting?....  any substantiating evidence?

----------


## 534623

> woah. what are these lofty declarations posters are asserting?....  any substantiating evidence?


 Of course, the substantiating evidence in this thread has even a name: didi

----------


## hellouser

> *Pilofocus is same as nigams doubling invivo, the only diff is that dr wesley takes grafts from underneath the scalp and bisects it, top part keeps growing, bottom part gets transplanted...*
> 
> but if he gets regen wouldnt normal FUE extraction be enough? grafts regrows anyway, hence no scarring


 Was this said on The Bald Truth's show last night? Can you source this info? This if the first time I've heard anywhere that Pilofocus bisects grafts...

----------


## didi

This makes me think dr nigams doubling is legit. Bisecting follicle at correct length is the key to regeneration.

The logical question to ask is why bother going underskin or scalp  harvesting grafts when you can do it  Nigams way (standard FUE), regeneration will eliminate any scarring anyway.   Makes it milion  easier to corectly bisect graft invitro than to do it by going  under the scalp.

----------


## Joker

I don't know if I would characterize Dr. Wesley's Pilofocus presentation in the same way as didi. 

Yes, Pilofocus has the ability to bisect grafts in a very precise and accurate fashion. 

However, we still do not know if the amount of stem cells removed is enough to generate a full follicle in the recipient area and if the amount of residual stem cells is enough to generate a full follicle in the donor area. Until we know this with certainty - something Dr. Wesley will test in the upcoming trial - we can't call it a functional cure or solution. 

I, personally, am skeptical. Still, Artista has more information on this than I do and he has stated that he really believes he has seen anecdotal evidence of regrowth. Let's all hope he is right. 

Just so everyone is aware, the ISHRS presentation only gave a limited overview of the "regenerative" aspects of this technology. The majority of the presentation concerned the shortcomings of current methods and the genesis of the Pilofocus.

----------


## crafter

Nigam or Wesley for a cure 2014

Yay  :Big Grin:

----------


## Javert

> Was this said on The Bald Truth's show last night? Can you source this info? This if the first time I've heard anywhere that Pilofocus bisects grafts...


 ^ This

----------


## Javert

> woah. what are these lofty declarations posters are asserting?....  any substantiating evidence?


 ^And that

----------


## didi

My gut feeling is that dr wesley isnt getting nowhere near 100&#37; regen with bisecting  method so Im not surprissed dr Nigams wasnt impressed but Im surprissed that dr gho didnt try this method at some point?Or maybe he did and it didnt work....

----------


## Javert

> My gut feeling is that dr wesley isnt getting nowhere near 100% regen with bisecting  method so Im not surprissed dr Nigams wasnt impressed but Im surprissed that dr gho didnt try this method at some point?Or maybe he did and it didnt work....


 Hey there now don't go all gut feeling on us. Let's wait until we get more info. This seems promising?

----------


## Arashi

> My gut feeling is that dr wesley isnt getting nowhere near 100&#37; regen with bisecting  method so Im not surprissed dr Nigams wasnt impressed but Im surprissed that dr gho didnt try this method at some point?Or maybe he did and it didnt work....


 My gut feeling is that ALL graft wounding procedures are the same: they're just FUE and do NOT lead to regeneration. First HASCI claimed they could do it, it turned out that wasn't true. Then Nigams could all of a sudden do it but never produced any convincing evidence, only some photoshopped pictures. Then Mousseigne said he was very far producing results but then disappeared into nowhere. Then Mwamba got interested because HASCI, Mousseigne and Nigams supposedly could do it (he said that's why he got interested in Nigams). And then we read that Pilofocus MAYBE caused regen too ... Of course I might be wrong here but up till now* the simple fact is that we have not seen a single credible regeneration case from ANY of those doctors* ...

----------


## didi

Dr Cole also claimed donor regeneration but as you said none of them produced anything yet. 

I would bet money that Dr Gho tried dr Nigams donor doubling and it didnt work and now everyone thinks they could do it.

The worst part about dr nigam is that we didnt see 1 decent fue, fut, hm, doubling from him...photo gallery on his website is pathetic at best.How is that possible you have wonder and people STILL go to him

----------


## Arashi

> Dr Cole also claimed donor regeneration but as you said none of them produced anything yet. 
> 
> I would bet money that Dr Gho tried dr Nigams donor doubling and it didnt work and now everyone thinks they could do it.
> 
> The worst part about dr nigam is that we didnt see 1 decent fue, fut, hm, doubling from him...photo gallery on his website is pathetic at best.How is that possible you have wonder and people STILL go to him


 I don't have much faith in Nigams anymore. All this time, only words and promises, not a single credible case that proves anything beyond reasonable doubt. I think Mwamba just got interested because all of a sudden 'everybody' claimed they were able to do it and now is testing if it really works (which I think it wont). 

Nobody could produce evidence. That's quite weird the least, isn't it.

----------


## Arashi

> The worst part about dr nigam is that we didnt see 1 decent fue, fut, hm, doubling from him...photo gallery on his website is pathetic at best.How is that possible you have wonder and people STILL go to him


 And Didi, how many times die we catch Nigams cheating, manipulating photo's and blatantly lying ? I really lost track. All in all, no, I don't have much hope anymore regarding him. But I've made that point more than enough times. I just keeps amazing me how, just like you said, people are still visiting his clinic ...

----------


## Artista

Hi *Arashi,* i want to thank you for your recent kind words on another thread.
_I do understand the frustrations of many._
We all want to have had a great treatment _YESTERDAY_.  
I DO feel very positive that something good will be available possibly sooner than we know.
As far as *Dr Wesley's* work is concerned, I feel even more positive than ever that he IS about to revolutionize the  hair transplant field.
*Dr Wesley* contacted me TODAY in fact.  He told me of a great experience at the recent conference and has the full support of the  surgical community after having witnessed his presentation in San Fran'. *Dr Cole* was very supportive in-particular. As you know Dr Cole is very busy in refining the use of the _Acell Matrix application_.
Apparently he was impressed with Dr Wesley's progress.
It will not be a let down for us all..
I can sense that. Oh by the way,Dr Wesley did say that he will be setting up my phase test experience soon. :Smile:  !! I cant wait and I will share my experiences with everyone here. 
Again,,thank you* Arashi* for your positive response earlier at the other thread.
Everyone,we all must hang in there..Listen to and trust  Spencer Kobren's thoughtful advice that he has given to us many many times. Live your lives, allow a better treatment to *SURPRISE* you. Cheers all

----------


## TheSwingingGate

> Live your lives, allow a better treatment to *SURPRISE* you. Cheers all


 That is the plan.

Thank you for keeping us updated my friend.

----------


## hellouser

> Live your lives bald, allow a better treatment to *SURPRISE* you. Cheers all


 Fixed.

----------


## Artista

Good morning *TheSwingingGate* (US time) 
We must stay positive. Obviously you know that too.
Negativity only brings us all down and serves no purpose in living out our individual lives.
Regarding hair loss treatments in general ..there ARE GOOD treatments on our  horizon. One being a revolutionary new surgical treatment and the others being regenerative.
Especially for our young men here..you will benefit from it the MOST.
That is a fact.  That is why I said -
*"Live your lives, allow a better treatment to SURPRISE you"*. 

About a week ago I actually had a dream that I *DID shave my head.*
The idea of doing that has been on my mind recently, hence the dream.
In the dream I was alone and decided to finally shave my head without a mirror present.  When i walked up to a mirror I was pleasantly surprised  to see that I didn't look 'that bad'- in my eyes!
Of COURSE, I was semi surprised.
I thought about the emotional ramifications once I met up with others when they FOCUSED on my head and would make the comments.
I decided that I would *DISMISS* any speculations or concerns as to how they may  view me or what they would  internally  think about ME being a shaved headed guy.
*Really- WHAT DOES IT MATTER?* What really MATTERS is how I feel and think about it all. After-all, We ARE our own* worst critics. * 
At the end of the day,,they probably would not think at all about my shaved head in the long run,  it would not be a life long topic of theirs either. 
If a person 'close to me' would be so highly critical of me because of my hair loss or my shaved head , how truly close were they to begin with??? 
How much do they really care about me as a person??
If a truly  close friend or family member didn't like the shaved head look they would *OVERLOOK  it and accept it anyways*,,right?
Don't WE always do that for others that we are close to and care for , be it an affliction, hair loss, a missing body part etc etc???? 
If it were not for the fact that I am currently on Fin' and that I will be a phase test patient for a great Doctor, I may have shaved my head already.
Who knows? 
Of course with age comes wisdom but you must always be objective. 
Ok ,,enough of my rambling. Hang in there my brothers!!!!!     :Smile:

----------


## Javert

> That is the plan.
> 
> Thank you for keeping us updated my friend.


 +1

----------


## FearTheLoss

Artista, do you think it is safe to say we are going to see some amount of regeneration from pilofocus, we just don't know the exact number yet? Also, do you have any idea of when Dr. Wesley will announce a release date and all information surrounding the surgery (such as regen %)...

Thanks for taking your time to keep us all informed!

-FTL

----------


## hellouser

> Artista, do you think it is safe to say we are going to see some amount of regeneration from pilofocus, we just don't know the exact number yet? Also, do you have any idea of when Dr. Wesley will announce a release date and all information surrounding the surgery (such as regen %)...
> 
> Thanks for taking your time to keep us all informed!
> 
> -FTL


 You should read my comment from another thread:




> If Pilofocus can be done on body hair, a lot of people will be set. My legs are really hairy, and all the hairs are just as thick and long as the hair on my head. I like my hair typically around 1-2 inches in length.
> 
> Does anyone know if a BHT with Pilofocus could be done? That plus safe donor zone hair should give some serious options for some people.
> 
> As for the regeneration bit, here's a screenshot from the presentation of the possible regeneration:
> 
> 
> 
> Now, if that photo is legit, then regeneration DOES happen... with Acell. Let's hope Cooley and Wesley pull it off. They do that, I'm making a large 'donation' to the both them in the form of copious amount of champagne and other alcohol.
> ...

----------


## Artista

HI FTL !!  I'm currently at a restaurant with my wife having dinner (Oakbrook, IL). To answer your first question... YES I feel it is safe to say that we will experience regrowth/regeneration in our donor areas.  % wise I wouldn't really want to guess . I'm hoping for the best of course. Dr Wesley is such a great guy and he is 100% sincere in what he is attempting to do. I can't wait to meet him and go through the process of phase testing. I'll share my experiences with all of you. Of course!!!!

----------


## deuce

I do not get how this works.  Will fin be necessary to keep remaining hair like other transplants?

----------


## hellouser

> I do not get how this works.  Will fin be necessary to keep remaining hair like other transplants?


 If youre not experiencing sides from Finasteride, I'd continue using it.

----------


## deuce

No Hel,  I am asking if this technique, which I am new to will require Finasteride to maintain remaining hairs like fue or fut transplants?  I am new to this technique i have been working 13 hour shifts so I do not have much time to research.  Thanks for the quick reply though

----------


## greatjob!

> I do not get how this works.  Will fin be necessary to keep remaining hair like other transplants?


 Your still going to lose hair so yes it would be in your best interest. It's essentially an endoscope that removes hair from beneath the skin, from what I understand

----------


## hellouser

> No Hel,  I am asking if this technique, which I am new to will require Finasteride to maintain remaining hairs like fue or fut transplants?  I am new to this technique i have been working 13 hour shifts so I do not have much time to research.  Thanks for the quick reply though


 Youre not guaranteed to go fully bald without an ant-dht, nor are you guaranteed to experience hair loss and stop at some point (somewhat like my case).

Assuming your hairloss will be progressive (likely that it will be) then YES, you'll need Fin to keep existing hair and slow down/halt further hair loss.

Its a shitty deal, but I'd recommend getting on RU/CB as an alternative.

----------


## maxhair

Does anyone know if access to body hair with pilofocus will be as easy as scalp hair?

Does the same naturally occurring pocket exist for the pilofocus to move between the layers of tissue beneath beard hair, chest hair, abdomen hair, and leg hair etc?

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Does anyone know if access to body hair with pilofocus will be as easy as scalp hair?
> 
> Does the same naturally occurring pocket exist for the pilofocus to move between the layers of tissue beneath beard hair, chest hair, abdomen hair, and leg hair etc?


 This is a great question I would like answered as well. Also, Artista, have you found out when you are starting your phase trial yet?

----------


## Kiwi

> Does anyone know if access to body hair with pilofocus will be as easy as scalp hair?
> 
> Does the same naturally occurring pocket exist for the pilofocus to move between the layers of tissue beneath beard hair, chest hair, abdomen hair, and leg hair etc?


 And does it cause shedding?

----------


## hellouser

> Does anyone know if access to body hair with pilofocus will be as easy as scalp hair?
> 
> Does the same naturally occurring pocket exist for the pilofocus to move between the layers of tissue beneath beard hair, chest hair, abdomen hair, and leg hair etc?


 I think someone has mentioned it doesnt work, but I personally think Dr. Wesley hasn't tried. Considering the amount of hair I have on my legs and the length I like to have my hair on my head, removing even half the hair on my legs would be a complete cure for me (I'm an NW3). I'm pretty hair there.

Still, more important are the regeneration claims, because this way you can use and reuse donor hair that will match your normal hair and grow to any length you want... body hair will remain quite short.

However, I wouldnt say no to body hair! Combine that with donor hair and you potentially have enough for complete coverage from NW6 to NW1!

----------


## Artista

_ Originally Posted by Maxhair 
Does anyone know if access to body hair with pilofocus will be as easy as scalp hair?
Does the same naturally occurring pocket exist for the pilofocus to move between the layers of tissue beneath beard hair, chest hair, abdomen hair, and leg hair etc?_
Hi *Maxhair* I wouldnt have any information on this specific question at this time. In 2014, Im sure that more info will come our way.




> This is a great question I would like answered as well. Also, Artista, have you found out when you are starting your phase trial yet?


 Hi *FearTheLoss*  
Yes , Dr Wesley had recently told me that I would be at his lab in early Spring 2014 !  I cant wait to be involved in this new technology. Thanks for asking bro

----------


## PayDay

I keep seeing people here talking about "regeneration claims"What regeneration claims? There is talk about possible regeneration, but from the video it's just about the surgical technique and that it would be scarless on the surface of the skin. Just a little talk about possibly being able to work towards regenerating donor hair.

I think we should look at this as a potentially better way to do FUE not a surgical cure for male pattern baldness.  At least for yet.

----------


## Kalio

> I think someone has mentioned it doesnt work, but I personally think Dr. Wesley hasn't tried. Considering the amount of hair I have on my legs and the length I like to have my hair on my head, removing even half the hair on my legs would be a complete cure for me (I'm an NW3). I'm pretty hair there.
> 
> Still, more important are the regeneration claims, because this way you can use and reuse donor hair that will match your normal hair and grow to any length you want... body hair will remain quite short.
> 
> However, I wouldnt say no to body hair! Combine that with donor hair and you potentially have enough for complete coverage from NW6 to NW1!


 Doesn't leg hair completely fall out after a certain age? Just like arm hair?

----------


## Artista

Hi* PayDay* 
You do make a good point. 
Ive said this before, any hair regeneration/regrowth that results from
* Dr Wesley's* new method of *Pilofocus* would be a bi-product of his overall intentions.
Not to say that donor hair regrowth could not be attained.
2 members here , Spencer Kobren and me- Artista, out of only a few people overall(doctors included), have witnessed the factual results during the *PowerPoint presentation* many months ago. 
The presentation that Dr Wesley had shown at the Doctors San Fran' meeting is not the same PowerPoint...
Proof of Dr Wesley's results are fantastic but anecdotal at this point in time.
Dont lose hope anyone. 
We are talking about a new method of hair transplantation that I feel will be a new gold standard. Cheers all,

----------


## Hairismylife

> Hi* PayDay* 
> You do make a good point. 
> Ive said this before, any hair regeneration/regrowth that results from
> * Dr Wesley's* new method of *Pilofocus* would be a bi-product of his overall intentions.
> Not to say that donor hair regrowth could not be attained.
> 2 members here , Spencer Kobren and me- Artista, out of only a few people overall(doctors included), have witnessed the factual results during the *PowerPoint presentation* many months ago. 
> The presentation that Dr Wesley had shown at the Doctors San Fran' meeting is not the same PowerPoint...
> Proof of Dr Wesley's results are fantastic but anecdotal at this point in time.
> Dont lose hope anyone. 
> We are talking about a new method of hair transplantation that I feel will be a new gold standard. Cheers all,


 So you mean Pilofocus is nothing but a scarless hair transplant?

----------


## Artista

*Hairismylife*  No I was not implying that at all.

----------


## FearTheLoss

Artista has clearly stated many times that it was originally made to be scarless, that was the first goal. However, regeneration has proved to be possible and now Dr. Wesley is doing another phase to see how much and how consistently he can get it. 


Artista, you say you are starting in spring 2014..does this mean pilofocus won't be available until 2015 now? or when can we expect it to be offered and final regeneration results to be announced?

----------


## Artista

Hi Fear'  Oh no, I believe his new tech will be available in 2014 , he is going through the finishing touches regarding instrumentation. 
Im sure he will share everything once it is a go

----------


## hellouser

> Hi Fear'  Oh no, I believe his new tech will be available in 2014 , he is going through the finishing touches regarding instrumentation. 
> Im sure he will share everything once it is a go


 If the procedure takes significantly less time, what would justify the cost to be as much as an FUE from Dr. Rahal?

----------


## Kiwi

> If the procedure takes significantly less time, what would justify the cost to be as much as an FUE from Dr. Rahal?


 Its not going to be as much. Remember the $5K pilofocus thread I started and the power of positive affirmation. Sheesh man! :P

----------


## Artista

Sorry guys , I have no way of knowing what the cost could or would be.
I can understand why those questions would be asked here but for myself I do not focus so much on the costs.  At least not at this time.

----------


## losthair85

Based on conversation with Dr. Wesley, Pilofocus won't be available until 2015, due to ongoing work on instrumentation, technique, and regeneration aspect.


Despite this unfortunate news, based on what I have seen personally, it will be indeed a game changer.

----------


## Artista

Hi *Losthair85*, 
Did you have a conversation with Dr Wesley directly? 
When I talk with him it is primarily about my upcoming involvement as a phase test patient of his.

----------


## Artista

Hey *FearTheLoss*  
I just wanted to say hello and to express my appreciation for your objectiveness here at the forum. Thanks Fear'..
We have a lot of good members here by the way.
I am always so concerned for our younger guys who are suffering  with hair loss at such an early age!!
When I was in my late 20s, I did notice that my hair was 'maturing' complete with a higher hair line but I did not allow that to scar me within.
 Mainly due to the fact that I still had a 'full head' of hair- albeit thinner. 
I never focused on the back of my head. 
Later in life when I was in my late 30s there were pictures taken at a family wedding reception in which I could clearly see the back of my head. (My father's NW6 was always in the back of my mind by the way)
I was so thankful to see in the photos that I still had not had a bald spot at the crown...yet.
My mid to late 40s brought the CHANGE-LOL.
So back to our young members , I am concerned for them because I know that it would have been overwhelming for me too at times if I had experienced the same.
I do feel that  young men are LUCKY because, even though a GOOD treatment isn't yet available NOW,, it WILL BE and I dont think it will be a 10 year wait.
The focus for  hair loss 'cure'/great treatment is at an all time high.
More than ever, Huge investments have been and are being made as time progresses. 
We all need to support each other here...this is our community.

----------


## hellouser

> Based on conversation with Dr. Wesley, Pilofocus won't be available until 2015, due to ongoing work on instrumentation, technique, and regeneration aspect.
> 
> 
> Despite this unfortunate news, based on what I have seen personally, it will be indeed a game changer.


 Who are you and why is a forum noobie making such a statement as if it were confirmed date?

----------


## baldymcgee

I wonder if it would be possible to combine Piloscopy with something like FUT:
- cut three sides of a square from the scalp
- fold the section back
- perform "FUE" from inside the folded section of scalp
- close

Obviously you'd still have a bit scar *but* with no tension so the scar should heal well with no risk of stretch.

----------


## hellouser

> I wonder if it would be possible to combine Piloscopy with something like FUT:
> - cut three sides of a square from the scalp
> - fold the section back
> - perform "FUE" from inside the folded section of scalp
> - close
> 
> Obviously you'd still have a bit scar *but* with no tension so the scar should heal well with no risk of stretch.


 Man thats like being skinned alive.

*shudder*

Interesting concept though.

----------


## Kiwi

> I wonder if it would be possible to combine Piloscopy with something like FUT:
> - cut three sides of a square from the scalp
> - fold the section back
> - perform "FUE" from inside the folded section of scalp
> - close
> 
> Obviously you'd still have a bit scar *but* with no tension so the scar should heal well with no risk of stretch.


 Yeah interesting for sure but why? What'd be the benefit over normal Pilofocus?

----------


## Kiwi

Arista - can you please ask about**:

1) shock loss
2) use of body hair
2a) maybe volunteer to try this  :Wink:

----------


## baldymcgee

> Yeah interesting for sure but why? What'd be the benefit over normal Pilofocus?


 1) Faster: because you're not doing things endoscopically, and because the bottoms of the follicles are clearly visible the doctor can take larger numbers of grafts more quickly.

2) Cheaper: new instrumentation isn't required and it's faster.

3) Availability: physicians should be able to start doing this today because there's no wait for new instrumentation.

----------


## losthair85

> Hi *Losthair85*, 
> Did you have a conversation with Dr Wesley directly? 
> When I talk with him it is primarily about my upcoming involvement as a phase test patient of his.


 Yes I did. Perhaps you can give us another update when you talk to him.

----------


## losthair85

> Who are you and why is a forum noobie making such a statement as if it were confirmed date?


 
I am a prospective patient, nothing is confirmed. Hopefully it gets moved up.

----------


## Artista

Hi *Losthair85* 
That certainly is my intention. Being a senior member here I will do my best to update all on *Dr Wesley's* progress.
*Kiwi*,,I will ask about that for you no problem.

----------


## hellouser

> I am a prospective patient, nothing is confirmed. Hopefully it gets moved up.


 LOL, I could say I'm a 'prospective' patient too. I can't take your words too seriously.

----------


## hellouser

> Hi *Losthair85* 
> That certainly is my intention. Being a senior member here I will do my best to update all on *Dr Wesley's* progress.
> *Kiwi*,,I will ask about that for you no problem.


 Body hair would be flipping awesome. Imagine the thousands of individual hairs from your legs/arms moved to your head to densify the areas or even add them to the finer areas on the hairline to add a more 'fine' look for a smooth transition from thin to thick hair rather than the hairline being packed with thick hair.

I did some simple estimates of the total number of hairs on my legs and its around 10,000 hairs. That is approximately 4,000 grafts! Couple that with approximately 4,000 donor grafts and you've potentially got a decent amount of coverage. I'd take the hairs from my legs and move them to my head STRICTLY to add some density. It'd be such an amazing alternative... and why not? Apparently Pilofocus is supposed to allow for much better harvesting and much better survival rates of grafts. I know that many of Dr. Umar's BHT treatments have relatively low yield rates so Pilofocus could make BHT a legitimate treatment.

----------


## losthair85

> Hi *Losthair85* 
> That certainly is my intention. Being a senior member here I will do my best to update all on *Dr Wesley's* progress.
> *Kiwi*,,I will ask about that for you no problem.


 
Yes, I have followed your reports closely, it is what prompted me to go meet him originally.


I stay in touch with him, but I haven't pushed for anymore updates recently. He is busy at work, and truly believes in this, and his sincerity makes me believe in him. 

I am fairly certain he could have launched this earlier and made money, but the man truly wants the best results for ALL of his patients, and so he is not willing to cut corners or make claims.

I am looking forward to your meeting with him. Thanks for all you do for this forum.

----------


## FearTheLoss

dang, so this actually isn't going to be available until 2015 than? that sucks

----------


## hellouser

> dang, so this actually isn't going to be available until 2015 than? that sucks


 Didn't you or someone else say it'd be available mid 2014?

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Didn't you or someone else say it'd be available mid 2014?


 It was supposed to originally be available in the end of 2013. Then Dr. Wesley added another 6 month study to figure out the regeneration aspect, now this new poster is claiming he talked to Wesley and it's 2015. Which is news to me and apparently news to Artista, who also confirmed 2014 as the release..and he is in the trial.

----------


## hellouser

> It was supposed to originally be available in the end of 2013. Then Dr. Wesley added another 6 month study to figure out the regeneration aspect, now this new poster is claiming he talked to Wesley and it's 2015. Which is news to me and apparently news to Artista, who also confirmed 2014 as the release..and he is in the trial.


 I don't remember discussions about it being available end of 2013, all of us we're waiting on the San Francisco ISHRS meeting in October and then for further details about release.

----------


## Artista

*Hellouser*
 the possible 2013 release was discussed on Spencer Kobren's Live show earlier this year.  Keep in mind that Spencer has had discussions  with Dr Wesley in addition to the specialized PowerPoint presentation.
End of 2013 was* only a possibility* based on Dr Wesley's discussions.
With *any* new technology in the makings, release dates are never exactly known until all the *t's are crossed and the i's are dotted* .
Pilofocus phase testings are ongoing as you know, the focus is more or less on updating/improving upon the instrumentation needed for the best results.
Currently 2014 is *more than likely* the year of public availability- but not officially confirmed.

----------


## hellouser

> *Hellouser*
>  the possible 2013 release was discussed on Spencer Kobren's Live show earlier this year.  Keep in mind that Spencer has had discussions  with Dr Wesley in addition to the specialized PowerPoint presentation.
> End of 2013 was* only a possibility* based on Dr Wesley's discussions.
> With *any* new technology in the makings, release dates are never exactly known until all the *t's are crossed and the i's are dotted* .
> Pilofocus phase testings are ongoing as you know, the focus is more or less on updating/improving upon the instrumentation needed for the best results.
> Currently 2014 is *more than likely* the year of public availability- but not officially confirmed.


 Well, either way... 2015 is only a little more than a year away. I'm still hoping on the regeneration, that should be a top priority. If we could get regeneration rates high enough to allow a person to have a full head of hair, scarring wouldnt be an issue as the head would be covered with hair to conceal it. You'd NEVER be able to tell unless you shaved to a low enough grade. But why would you considering your after MORE hair if only to shave it?

I'm looking forward to 2014 though.

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## FearTheLoss

Artista, is there any way Dr. Wesely would allow other members or BTT as a community to see the presentation you and Spencer saw? I guess I don't understand his reasoning for not letting us see it. 

I really wish we could find out what kind of regen he was seeing factually in early trials. We all understand that they are trials and the final procedure may not reflect early results, but it would be nice to know what may be possible. Especially since it looks like we will be waiting a lot longer than imagined to have this treatment available.

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## Javert

> Well, either way... 2015 is only a little more than a year away. I'm still hoping on the regeneration, that should be a top priority. If we could get regeneration rates high enough to allow a person to have a full head of hair, scarring wouldnt be an issue as the head would be covered with hair to conceal it. You'd NEVER be able to tell unless you shaved to a low enough grade. But why would you considering your after MORE hair if only to shave it?
> 
> *I'm looking forward to 2014 though.*


 *
*

Couldn't agree more.

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## hellouser

A question about Acell:

Apparently it allows donor regeneration, well, at least Dr. Cole wants us to believe. He stated that it doesnt work as well as it should due to 'leakage'. He talks about the leakage here (go to the 7:00 minute mark)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khVm4wSpzjo

More interesting are his thoughts on the follicle extraction, he says that the reason for regeneration is due to certain stem cells that surround the extraction are able to create a regenerated follicle along with ACELL so as long as the extraction is limited to as little of the follicle as possible (minimal harvesting). This is an interesting point because...!! If you you know about Pilofocus from Dr. Wesley, than you know harvesting is dead accurate, follicle survival rate is higher and extraction sites are much less invasive... which, when coupled with ACELL, *also* regenerated follicles! Interesting sh*t! 

Now, if leakage is in fact a problem, how would it be addressed with Pilofocus? I guess it wouldn't leak if it were packed underneath the skin and just spread itself around in extracted sites...??

Any thoughts on this?

If this does in fact work the way that it does in the presentation, we'd all need 3 mega-sessions to get to complete coverage with GOOD density... or full density on lower norwoods.

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## Artista

:Wink:  *Hellouser-* a wink for you.
*FearTheLoss*  I will contact Dr Wesley and ask him for you. 
I would imagine that his website would provide that info ,if not now, later when patients are needed to apply.
Its possible that he has the number of patients needed but I will speak with him. Cheers

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## JDW

I've somehow avoided this potential route/topic up til now, just having a look now...So is this something that we're generally positive about going forward?

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## locke999

> I've somehow avoided this potential route/topic up til now, just having a look now...So is this something that we're generally positive about going forward?


 The only person who has been in close contact with Dr. Wesley from this forum is Artista and he says that he saw some regeneration earlier but its all "anecdotal evidence."

Dr. Wesley has yet to publish any real photos of regeneration and based on history, of all the many doctors who are claiming regeneration and has still yet to provide evidence, I wouldn't put too much hope into it.

Take your finasteride and rogaine if you can handle them, I really don't think we will have anything for at least 3 years.

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## Kiwi

> *Hellouser-* a wink for you.
> *FearTheLoss*  I will contact Dr Wesley and ask him for you. 
> I would imagine that his website would provide that info ,if not now, later when patients are needed to apply.
> Its possible that he has the number of patients needed but I will speak with him. Cheers


 That wink seemed a little too all knowing!! So is that true acell from the inside??

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## Javert

> A question about Acell:
> 
> Apparently it allows donor regeneration, well, at least Dr. Cole wants us to believe. He stated that it doesnt work as well as it should due to 'leakage'. He talks about the leakage here (go to the 7:00 minute mark)
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khVm4wSpzjo
> 
> More interesting are his thoughts on the follicle extraction, he says that the reason for regeneration is due to certain stem cells that surround the extraction are able to create a regenerated follicle along with ACELL so as long as the extraction is limited to as little of the follicle as possible (minimal harvesting). This is an interesting point because...!! If you you know about Pilofocus from Dr. Wesley, than you know harvesting is dead accurate, follicle survival rate is higher and extraction sites are much less invasive... which, when coupled with ACELL, *also* regenerated follicles! Interesting sh*t! 
> 
> Now, if leakage is in fact a problem, how would it be addressed with Pilofocus? I guess it wouldn't leak if it were packed underneath the skin and just spread itself around in extracted sites...??
> ...


  :Smile:

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