# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  Follica

## nickk

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/09...n_3874644.html

Researchers say they are very close to unleashing a product that could finally draw the curtain on the dreaded comb-over.

Follica, a U.S.-based firm, claims their proprietary procedure consistently creates new hair follicles in both mice and men, The Scientist reports.

"This discovery sheds light on a novel mechanism to regenerate hair follicles and opens an exciting new avenue to develop treatments for hair loss in humans," The company's Dr. William Ju said in a press release. "Follica has developed a technology platform that is uniquely suited to support clinical translation of these new findings."

It focuses on a slightly strange-sounding process called 'skin-perturbation', in which the top layers of skin on the scalp are peeled back. The cells beneath them apparently revert to a stem-like state. Finally, a topical solution is applied that essentially re-programs those cells to be hair-producers.

Hair? Is that really you, after all these years?

And for Follica, the promise of propping up the male ego and all the societal benefits hair confers, could spell the biggest roll-up-the-rim win of all time. Especially, with the pickings so slim at the moment.

Non-invasive hair-regrowth options basically come down to minoxidil, marketed as Rogaine, and finasteride , which you may know as Propecia. The former is a vasodilator, which purports to prevent follicles from shrinking and choking off hair. Propecia aims to stop testosterone from being converted, and thus weaponized as DHT, which starves hair of vital nutrients.

You've also got the oft-ridiculed toupee option and surgeries which graft hair from other parts of your body.

That's where Follica, having licensed research from the University of Pennsylvania's Perelman School of Medicine, is looking to ride to the rescue.

Tricking, or re-programming, cells for different purposes is hardly new. Scientists have successfully coaxed the body's most flexible cell into producing muscle to mend damaged hearts and even bone.

While researchers at Follica have remained somewhat coy on exactly how the process works, The Scientist reports the procedure has already sailed through both preclinical and clinical trials.

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## KJ1982

Thanks for the link, *nickk*.  :Smile: 

Personally, Follica are behind one of the more interesting potential treatments and I'm always glad to hear more from, or about, them.

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## Artista

*Nickk*, thanks for putting this thread on here! 
 Ive never thought negatively about Follica nor have I ever thought they were over with. 
Exactly why was this reported today on the _Huffington Post?_ 
Could it be a build up for an eventual release date?* At any rate it is 
interesting! *

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## simba

Nice link, thanks.

When are follica releasing their next update?

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## Scientalk56

Finally *No* "could be on sale within *five years*" promise, Now i can say i believe this article.

It's a breakthrough for every writer - not saying this 5-years bullshit

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## Artista

*Follica* has been purposely keeping their 'cards close to their chest' for a long time.
Something had initiated this Huff' report, and yes, as *Scientalk56* has pointed out..NO mention of a _'5 year'_ release possibility.

_"(Follica)Researchers say they are very close to unleashing a product that could finally draw the curtain on the dreaded comb-over"._

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## DesperateOne

This is good news, I personally think that follica is keeping such lips is because they know that their method can be reproduced easily. The science behind it make it relatively easy to reproduce anywhere once we know the secret formula. We might be able to find it before they put it on the market.

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## clandestine

> This is good news, I personally think that follica is keeping such lips is because they know that their method can be reproduced easily. The science behind it make it relatively easy to reproduce anywhere once we know the secret formula. We might be able to find it before they put it on the market.


 Mhm you might be on to something there DesperateOne.

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## hellouser

I think they're releasing this news because they know we're onto their studies from the dermarolling thread.

I'm still sticking to my theory that dermabrasion + injections of FGF-9 will give similar results. Follica and Cotsarelis must be shaking in their boots!

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## Westonci

so is this breaking news or just an update?

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## brunobald

Hard to know what to make of this. They don't say anything they haven't said before.

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## optimisticyouth

> I think they're releasing this news because they know we're onto their studies from the dermarolling thread.
> 
> I'm still sticking to my theory that dermabrasion + injections of FGF-9 will give similar results. Follica and Cotsarelis must be shaking in their boots!


 I don't care who we get it from so long as this generation gets to be cured!  :Smile:

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## joely

I don't know whether to get excited about this or not, there has been a few times this year iv got exited thinking we are almost there and turns out we aren't, i get the impression this could be all we hear, in hoping they are close, any ideas once they do release something it will be available in the uk? Id like to hear more than vagrancies and from follica themselves such as how close is close and how wellitvwill work and if higher norwoods willbevable to benefit having found myself in the news paper a few times i know they don't always tell the complete truth! Don't want to put a downer on it could be amazing! But yet another game of wait and see if you ask this balding twenty something

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## hellouser

> Hard to know what to make of this. They don't say anything they haven't said before.


 They are in Phase II trials. It'll be a couple years at least before we see anything worth our time.

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## DesperateOne

> I don't know whether to get excited about this or not, there has been a few times this year iv got exited thinking we are almost there and turns out we aren't, i get the impression this could be all we hear, in hoping they are close, any ideas once they do release something it will be available in the uk? Id like to hear more than vagrancies and from follica themselves such as how close is close and how wellitvwill work and if higher norwoods willbevable to benefit having found myself in the news paper a few times i know they don't always tell the complete truth! Don't want to put a downer on it could be amazing! But yet another game of wait and see if you ask this balding twenty something


 Since its a USA based company I suspect it will be here before the UK, maybe about three more years it will go international if this does come out. I am also sick of press releases and articles giving no substance in relation to time, it seems all they want is the publicity. They really should be close because their since is really not as complex as others companies.

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## brunobald

I would guess there should be a patent out now or soon describing the process. Should make interesting reading, especially if we can replicate.

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## Scoots

"While researchers at Follica have remained somewhat coy on exactly how the process works, The Scientist reports the procedure has already sailed through both preclinical and clinical trials."

'Sailed through clinical trials'...is this possibly implying that the procedure they've tested has already gone through all phases? Or maybe just referring to Phase 1 and 2a as we previously knew?

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## hellouser

> "While researchers at Follica have remained somewhat coy on exactly how the process works, The Scientist reports the procedure has already sailed through both preclinical and clinical trials."
> 
> 'Sailed through clinical trials'...is this possibly implying that the procedure they've tested has already gone through all phases? Or maybe just referring to Phase 1 and 2a as we previously knew?


 Preclinical would be the research, and clinical would the safety trials in Phase I. They are now in Phase II.

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## brunobald

> Preclinical would be the research, and clinical would the safety trials in Phase I. They are now in Phase II.


 If they are using a known safe substance for the topical after wounding do they need to complete a Phase III?

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## hellouser

> If they are using a known safe substance for the topical after wounding do they need to complete a Phase III?


 Hopefully not, but the snail paced cure gatekeeping businessmen, I mean the FDA, will have a final say as to how quickly they can allow Follica to release a treatment.

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## hellouser

Here is Follica's pipeline:

http://www.puretechventures.com/pipeline.php

Its funded by PureTech Ventures, hence the not so obvious website.

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## joely

Thanks hellouser, clears it up a fraction when i first read the post i was thinking it was all but ready to go

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## baldee

If this is about Cotsarelis latest publication, its definitely not going to hit the market tomorrow. Basically they constructed a dermal epidermal composite containing neonatal foreskin keratinocytes and Human dermal papillae cells, transplanted it unto naked mice and after 8 weeks they noted hair follicle growth.

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## brunobald

> If this is about Cotsarelis latest publication, its definitely not going to hit the market tomorrow. Basically they constructed a dermal epidermal composite containing neonatal foreskin keratinocytes and Human dermal papillae cells, transplanted it unto naked mice and after 8 weeks they noted hair follicle growth.


 No not as far as I can make out. This is a wounding method combined with a known substance that expresses a certain substance in newly healing skin. This promotes the formation of new hair. Follica appear to have IP on the wounding device only? Suggesting the biological process is quite simple.

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## baldee

> No not as far as I can make out. This is a wounding method combined with a known substance that expresses a certain substance in newly healing skin. This promotes the formation of new hair. Follica appear to have IP on the wounding device only? Suggesting the biological process is quite simple.


 I hope you are right. Try to get hold a copy of this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...mal+Composites

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## locke999

This article is basically just repeating everything we already know and giving us a vague timeline, "soon." 

It sounds like the writer just read a few hair loss article and regurgitated this rubbish because they had nothing to write.

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## Thinning87

> This article is basically just repeating everything we already know and giving us a vague timeline, "soon." 
> 
> It sounds like the writer just read a few hair loss article and regurgitated this rubbish because they had nothing to write.


 That's what I'm trying to understand: has he spoken to someone at Follica more recently since June's publication, or is he just paraphrasing the June release to drive more traffic to the website?

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## deuce

Man it would be sweet if like my brother or someone I knew worked for Follica.  I would give you all the deets.  Wishful thinking

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## baldybald

> I think they're releasing this news because they know we're onto their studies from the dermarolling thread.
> 
> I'm still sticking to my theory that dermabrasion + injections of FGF-9 will give similar results. Follica and Cotsarelis must be shaking in their boots!


 That is stupid !

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## Thinning87

> I think they're releasing this news because they know we're onto their studies from the dermarolling thread.
> 
> I'm still sticking to my theory that dermabrasion + injections of FGF-9 will give similar results. Follica and Cotsarelis must be shaking in their boots!


 Haha I'm not so sure, but hey whatever reason is a good reason to me.

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## brunobald

Example 1
Method of Treatment of Skin

A method according to the present invention for effecting treatment of the skin on a human scalp is performed as follows. A subject with near complete hair loss and mild dyspigmentation on the scalp is seated in a stationary examination chair.


Next, using a programmed protocol for treating physical features that are known to be present on the subject's scalp (the practitioners having assessed the subject's scalp, determined that germane features included featureless areas of skin, age spots, terminal hairs, and sweat glands, and provided such information to the computer in order to trigger the use of an appropriate protocol), the computer positions a fractional laser above the scalp, and the laser is activated for a prescribed time and at a prescribed power for removal of a column of tissue at the target area to a depth of about 1 mm, thereby forming a channel at the location of injury. Using a protocol that is appropriate for an area in which a channel has been formed, the computer positions an applicator at a location above the scalp that corresponds to the site of injury in the second further target area. The applicator includes an inkjet-type head for delivering a composition substantially directly into the channel. A small volume (about 50 μL) of a composition comprising 6-bromo-indirubin-3′-oxime (a GSK3β modulator) and carrier comprising PEO-PPO-PEO (a thermoreversible polymer that gels when exposed to human physiological temperatures) is delivered as a fluid to the location.


The computer then uses the preprogrammed protocol to select a new target area on the portion of the scalp that is precisely 4 mm above (i.e., at a 90° angle from) the first target area. The selection of the further target area is in accordance with a preset directive that instructs the computer to select further target areas from a rectilinear grid defined by points that are separated from one another by 4 mm.


Next, using the programmed protocol for treating a scalp having the characteristics described above, the computer positions an applicator that is configured for propelling particles at a location above the scalp that corresponds to the further target area, and the applicator is activated for a prescribed time to deliver lithium-containing particles at a prescribed velocity (calculated to penetrate the skin to a depth of 1 to 3 mm) at the location of the further target area. Using a protocol that is appropriate for an area that has been bombarded with lithium-containing particles, the computer positions a second applicator at a location above the scalp that corresponds to the further target area. The applicator includes a spray nozzle for delivering a composition to the body surface. A small volume (about 50 μL) of a composition comprising aminoxidil and an appropriate excipient is delivered as a fluid to the location.


The computer again uses the preprogrammed protocol to select a new target area (a second further target area) on the portion of the scalp that is precisely 4 mm above (i.e., at a 90° angle from) the further target area. In accordance with the preprogrammed protocol for treating a scalp having the characteristics described above, the computer again positions a fractional laser above the scalp, and the laser is activated for a prescribed time and at a prescribed power for removal of a column of tissue at the second further target area to a depth of about 1 mm, thereby forming a channel at the location of the second further target area. Using the protocol that is appropriate for an area in which a channel has been formed, the computer positions an applicator at a location above the scalp that corresponds to the site of injury in the second further target area. The applicator includes an inkjet-type head for delivering a composition substantially directly into the channel. A small volume (about 50 μL) of a composition comprising 6-bromo-indirubin-3′-oxime and carrier comprising acrylate-lactate-PEO-PPO-PEO-lactate-acrylate is delivered as a fluid to the location.


The computer again uses the preprogrammed protocol to select a new target area (a third further target area) on the portion of the scalp that is precisely 4 mm above (i.e., at a 90° angle from) the second further target area. Once again using the programmed protocol for treating a scalp having the characteristics described above, the computer positions the applicator that is configured for propelling particles at a location above the scalp that corresponds to the third further target area, and the applicator is activated for a prescribed time to deliver lithium-containing particles at a prescribed velocity (calculated to penetrate the skin to a depth of 1 to 3 mm) at the location of the further target area. Using a protocol that is appropriate for an area that has been bombarded with lithium-containing particles, the computer positions a second applicator at a location above the scalp that corresponds to the third further target area. The applicator includes a spray nozzle for delivering a composition to the body surface. A small volume (about 50 μL) of a composition comprising aminoxidil and an appropriate excipient is delivered as a fluid to the location.


The described process is performed iteratively to give rise to additional target areas, wherein the additional target areas form a rectilinear grid relative to the portion of scalp.

*
Taken from Follicas most recent patent* 

http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/e...PCTDescription

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## Thinning87

There you go Hellouser do this at home  :Smile:

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## DesperateOne

So what now, they just have us the cure? Time to find those chemicals?
A small volume (about 50 μL) of a composition comprising 6-bromo-indirubin-3′-oxime and carrier comprising acrylate-lactate-PEO-PPO-PEO-lactate-acrylate is delivered as a fluid to the location.


A small volume (about 50 μL) of a composition comprising aminoxidil and an appropriate excipient is delivered as a fluid to the location.

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## TheSwingingGate

This sounds...precise.

As I understand it, it is a computer guided system?
That would answer my question of follicles being systematically placed, rather than a random 'strip the skin and pour solution on it' method that I had pictured.

Wonder what the solution will be to counter act DHT or any other triggers to the balding process? Please tell me no more Propecia!

So many questions. 

Hope it works. 

 :Smile:

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## hellouser

> Example 1
> Method of Treatment of Skin
> 
> A method according to the present invention for effecting treatment of the skin on a human scalp is performed as follows. A subject with near complete hair loss and mild dyspigmentation on the scalp is seated in a stationary examination chair.
> 
> 
> Next, using a programmed protocol for treating physical features that are known to be present on the subject's scalp (the practitioners having assessed the subject's scalp, determined that germane features included featureless areas of skin, age spots, terminal hairs, and sweat glands, and provided such information to the computer in order to trigger the use of an appropriate protocol), the computer positions a fractional laser above the scalp, and the laser is activated for a prescribed time and at a prescribed power for removal of a column of tissue at the target area to a depth of about 1 mm, thereby forming a channel at the location of injury. Using a protocol that is appropriate for an area in which a channel has been formed, the computer positions an applicator at a location above the scalp that corresponds to the site of injury in the second further target area. The applicator includes an inkjet-type head for delivering a composition substantially directly into the channel. A small volume (about 50 μL) of a composition comprising 6-bromo-indirubin-3′-oxime (a GSK3β modulator) and carrier comprising PEO-PPO-PEO (a thermoreversible polymer that gels when exposed to human physiological temperatures) is delivered as a fluid to the location.
> 
> 
> ...


 
AWESOME FIND.

I'm going to read this in full detail later on. Lets end this disease!

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## TheSwingingGate

If anyone has the grit and determination to do this, it is you Hellouser.

Good luck, the race begins!

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## brunobald

1mm in diameter is quite a large hole, the hole is also being held open by a slow dissolving gel. I wonder if this is part of the reason a dermaroller does not work as the skin will close back around the puncture wound. In contrast a 1mm permantent hole will force the skin to bridge the gap and create *NEW* tissue!

In regards to the actual laser and print cartridge technology I have a lot of experience with this stuff having built my own co2 laser cutter and I see no reason why it cannot be done. Im not proposing we build on though  :Smile:  If Follica pull this off I would be more than willing to give them my custom.

Edit reading the patent back I relise it is does say the hole is 1mm in diameter but 1mm in depth. I guess the gel may still be key to creating a bridging effect?

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## mmmcoffee

I have a lot of faith in follica but absolutely none in huffingtob post being a reliable news source. I remember reading an article on there saying a supernova somewhere in space would go off and be so bright we'd have a second sun in 2013. As someone suggested, think it was just to bring traffic in to their site. Nonetheless, still believing follica is for real

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## Scientalk56

Sry, really i am, but i stopped getting excited..
When I see a bald man growing a full head of hair, then i will get excited..

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## brunobald

> I have a lot of faith in follica but absolutely none in huffingtob post being a reliable news source. I remember reading an article on there saying a supernova somewhere in space would go off and be so bright we'd have a second sun in 2013. As someone suggested, think it was just to bring traffic in to their site. Nonetheless, still believing follica is for real


 This wasn't on April the 1st by any chance.  :Smile:

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## Thinning87

> 1mm in diameter is quite a large hole, the hole is also being held open by a slow dissolving gel. I wonder if this is part of the reason a dermaroller does not work as the skin will close back around the puncture wound. In contrast a 1mm permantent hole will force the skin to bridge the gap and create *NEW* tissue!
> 
> In regards to the actual laser and print cartridge technology I have a lot of experience with this stuff having built my own co2 laser cutter and I see no reason why it cannot be done. Im not proposing we build on though  If Follica pull this off I would be more than willing to give them my custom.
> 
> Edit reading the patent back I relise it is does say the hole is 1mm in diameter but 1mm in depth. I guess the gel may still be key to creating a bridging effect?


 You might be right. Either way I will be happy to give Follica a nice fifty k if they can cure me for good

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## DesperateOne

This is such good news, finally we can all leave this damn curse. I will try to do my part as soon as hellouser determines the hack for us, I will be a la rat for this.

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## clandestine

> This is such good news, finally we can all leave this damn curse. I will try to do my part as soon as hellouser determines the hack for us, I will be a la rat for this.


 Am I missing something?

I'm unsure as to why you're touting we can "leave this curse"?

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## DesperateOne

> Am I missing something?
> 
> I'm unsure as to why you're touting we can "leave this curse"?


 So you like your curse?

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## hellouser

> 1mm in diameter is quite a large hole, the hole is also being held open by a slow dissolving gel. I wonder if this is part of the reason a dermaroller does not work as the skin will close back around the puncture wound. In contrast a 1mm permantent hole will force the skin to bridge the gap and create *NEW* tissue!
> 
> In regards to the actual laser and print cartridge technology I have a lot of experience with this stuff having built my own co2 laser cutter and I see no reason why it cannot be done. Im not proposing we build on though  If Follica pull this off I would be more than willing to give them my custom.
> 
> Edit reading the patent back I relise it is does say the hole is 1mm in diameter but 1mm in depth. I guess the gel may still be key to creating a bridging effect?


 Just as I predicted, we need much harsher wounding to replicate Follica's methods, even the diagrams I posted in the dermarolling thread reflected that, where the wounds went down to where the follicle lives and wide enough to cover a follicle's surrounding area.

Screw the dermaroller, I'm buying a cheesegrater.

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## DesperateOne

> Just as I predicted, we need much harsher wounding to replicate Follica's methods, even the diagrams I posted in the dermarolling thread reflected that, where the wounds went down to where the follicle lives and wide enough to cover a follicle's surrounding area.
> 
> Screw the dermaroller, I'm buying a cheesegrater.


 Oh God, if I can barely tolerate the pain now, we are going to need some sort of gel to numb the area, otherwise I can't see myself doing it. Let us know on what you have decided to use in the end, Hellouser. What about if we actually just use knitting needles, they can be found at any length and width, the problem will be the amount of time it will take to do the procedure and the PAIN!

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## hellouser

> Oh God, if I can barely tolerate the pain now, we are going to need some sort of gel to numb the area, otherwise I can't see myself doing it. Let us know on what you have decided to use in the end, Hellouser. What about if we actually just use knitting needles, they can be found at any length and width, the problem will be the amount of time it will take to do the procedure and the PAIN!


 No idea, obviously I'm only joking about getting a cheesegrater, however we should really look into replicating Follica's methods as close as humanly possible. If we can do that, we could have a cure ourselves without spending thousands of dollars and without waiting many years. We just need more people looking into the research and doing a little experimentation. With a little luck, we can easily do it.

I'd love to hear more from Desmond on this, god damn... we are so close.

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

hell we are close ? is it a dream? might it happen? some rich guy pay docs and researchers and cure him self in his mansion and then post it online maybe?

i hope it will... we need it badly

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## hellouser

> hell we are close ? is it a dream? might it happen? some rich guy pay docs and researchers and cure him self in his mansion and then post it online maybe?
> 
> i hope it will... we need it badly


 We can come together as a community and beat them to the punch. We just need to continue experimenting. Its all it takes, determination and persistence. Eventually we'll get there.

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## simba

> We can come together as a community and beat them to the punch. We just need to continue experimenting. Its all it takes, determination and persistence. Eventually we'll get there.


 Are you serious about ditching the dermaroller or were you just being flippant?

I was looking forward to using it, guess its just cb and minox now

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## DesperateOne

I say we start a new community trial thread for this. I will go to the local store next week and get myself a kit of  needles and try to find some bum bing gel online. We can then have people buy other stuff and induce the wound thicker. What exactly do we have to apply afterwards? Minoxidil or that amox?

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## DesperateOne

I took what another member said on another forum, I think he summarized it nicely for those of us who don't like the abstract in this. 

 Basically the patent boils down to this: 

1. Use Laser to create a wound 1mm deep. Let's call this WOUND1
2. Inject GSK3B modulator using PEO-PPO-PEO to slow down wound healing/closure as long as possible, this essentially gives more time to apply whatever topical you are going to use to induce WIHN
3. Create another wound 4mm apart from the previous wound with a depth of 1-3 mm and apply minoxidil. Lets call this WOUND2
4. Repeat in a grid like pattern covering the whole area affected by AGA.

So what this does is this:

WOUND1's healing is essentially slowed down by gsk3b. This is a brilliant idea because it's almost like having the benefits of a big open wound in a tiny wound, it's tiny but open for a longer time, it's expressing growth factors, furthermore WOUND2 causes wnt to be expressing around it's edges, notably WOUND1 (I posted a research paper on this few pages back about how bcatenin expressed not within the wound itself, but in areas surrounding the wound). Adding minoxidil to WOUND2 further expresses bcatenin in WOUND1 (and some within wound2 before it closes quickly).

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/35381
To investigate the function of GSK-3β in fibroblasts, we generated mice harboring a fibroblast-specific deletion of Gsk3b and evaluated their wound-healing and fibrogenic responses. We have shown that Gsk3b-conditional-KO mice (Gsk3b-CKO mice) exhibited accelerated wound closure, increased fibrogenesis, and excessive scarring compared with control mice.
This is my understanding of this patent. 

I was just thinking the other day about a way to slow down microneedling wound healing to potentially further growth factor expression, and I found that capsaicin does a pretty good job, but I thought the idea for crazy 

http://www.plosone.org/article/info&#37;...l.pone.0054760
Abstract: The aim of this study was to develop a human model of acute wound healing that isolated the effects of small fiber neuropathy on the healing process. Twenty-five healthy subjects had the transient receptor vanilloid 1 agonist capsaicin and placebo creams topically applied to contralateral areas on the skin of the thigh for 48 hours. Subjects had shallow (1.2 millimeter) and deep (>3 millimeter) punch skin biopsies from each thigh on days 1 and 14. Biopsy wound healing was monitored photographically until closure. Intra-epidermal and sweat-gland nerve fiber densities were measured for each biopsy. Shallow wounds in capsaicin-treated sites healed more slowly than in placebo treated skin with biopsies taken on day 1 (P<0.001) and day 14 (P<0.001). Deep biopsies in the capsaicin and placebo areas healed at similar rates at both time points. Nerve fiber densities were reduced only in capsaicin treated regions (P<0.01). In conclusion, topical application of capsaicin causes a small fiber neuropathy and is associated with a delay in healing of shallow, but not deep wounds. This novel human model may prove valuable in the study of wound healing in patients with neuropathy.

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## PatientlyWaiting

> I think they're releasing this news because they know we're onto their studies from the dermarolling thread.
> 
> I'm still sticking to my theory that dermabrasion + injections of FGF-9 will give similar results. Follica and Cotsarelis must be shaking in their boots!


 But is any one even regrowing hair in that DermaRolling thread?

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## Koga

> But is any one even regrowing hair in that DermaRolling thread?


 I am

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## PatientlyWaiting

> I am


 Really? do you have pics?

How well does it work, and what dermaroller do you use?

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## Koga

I use the 1.5mm, hurts like hell. My whole head is covered with peach fuzz now, feels really funny, I rub it all day haha. Some thin black ones are starting to come in. If all the fuzz turns into terminal hair, I'd have a full head of hair. But I don't want to get too optimistic yet.. I'll have pics when the results become more obvious on camera.

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## Hairismylife

> I use the 1.5mm, hurts like hell. My whole head is covered with peach fuzz now, feels really funny, I rub it all day haha. Some thin black ones are starting to come in. If all the fuzz turns into terminal hair, I'd have a full head of hair. But I don't want to get too optimistic yet.. I'll have pics when the results become more obvious on camera.


 how long you have been bald?

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## DesperateOne

What I want to know is that now that we have a good lead on a cure, why are people still bothering with pointless shit like nigam, igrow, dr gho and other snake oils. This needs to be our main priority, I know some are shedding like crazy right now.

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## brunobald

Guys and Girls this is the patent we need to get hold of.

http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/e...NationalBiblio

If was published less than one month ago. 08.08.2013 there was also a euro patent filed for the same thing 6 months prior so the euro patent might appear first. Remember these patents are applied for years before they are granted/published so it would be safe to assume Follica are way ahead of anything we find in patents. Which is a good thing, who knows where they are at.

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## brunobald

Found it on google patents.

http://www.google.com/patents/US20130204238

These patents are actually quite nice to read make a change from the usuall gobbledygook.

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## brunobald

*Here is an updated scenario taken from the 2013 patent
*

Example 1 Method of Treatment of Skin by Disruption and Formation of Void Spaces

A method according to the present invention for effecting treatment of the skin on a human scalp is performed as follows. A male subject with early stage pattern hair loss is seated in a stationary examination chair. A clinician unseals a kit comprising a handpiece and a set of four containers. A first container comprises 1 mL of a composition comprising lithium gluconate. A second container comprises 5 mL of a composition comprising lithium gluconate. A third container comprises 1 mL of a composition comprising particles of lithium chloride. A fourth container comprises 5 mL of a composition comprising particles of lithium chloride.

The clinician first links the handpiece to a fractional laser generator, and then powers on the handpiece using a manual control. After a few moments, wireless communication is established between the handpiece and a computer onto which software for controlling the handpiece has previously been loaded.

The clinician asseses the scalp of the subject, and upon determination that the subject has a relatively minor degree of hair loss, selects the container comprising 1 mL of a composition comprising 8% lithium gluconate and the container comprising 1 mL of a composition comprising particles of lithium chloride. The handpiece includes two chambers for accommodating containers, and the clinician loads a container into each of the two chambers.

The handpiece is positioned about 5 cm above the surface of an area of the subject's scalp that is selected for treatment because of significantly thinning hair at that location. Using another manual control, the clinician activates a treatment protocol for disruption, formation of void spaces, and application of physiologically active composition to selected the target area. The generator activates a CO2 laser on the handpiece, and in accordance with the software protocol, the computer configures the laser so that it applies an ablative fractional pattern at 10,600 nm onto the target area. This pattern is sufficient to remove substantially all of the stratum corneum and epidermis from the portion of the target area onto which the laser is directed. The clinician moves the handpiece over the surface of the skin until an area measuring about 5 cm by 5 cm is treated. At the same time that the laser is being used to remove the stratum corneum and epidermis from the treatment area, the software protocol also directs the computer to configure the laser so that it intermittently forms a fractional ablative pattern that is effective to form void spaces in the dermis tissue at the treatment area. The void spaces are oriented at a substantially perpendicular angle relative to the surface of the skin, and extend to a depth of about 1 mm from the surface of the exposed dermis. Thus, translation of the handpiece over the surface of the skin is effective both to remove the stratum corneum and epidermis and to form void spaces by removal of dermis tissue during such translation.

The software-directed computer than commands the handpiece to deactivate the laser and a sequence begins for the application of physiologically active composition from the containers onto the injured target area. The clinician positions the handpiece about 5 cm above the surface of the injured skin, and begins translation of the handpiece over the surface of skin as the applicators are activated and begin applying physiologically active composition to the skin by spraying. The physiologically active composition is a mixture of the composition from the first container and the composition from the second container. The handpiece includes a mixing apparatus that combines the contents of the first container with the contents of the second container prior to activation of the applicator. By moving the handpiece over the injured target area, the clinician coats the exposed dermis with the mixed composition until the combined contents of the first and second containers are exhausted. When this occurs, the clinician deactivates the handpiece.

The clinician then applies a topical anaesthetic spray comprising 10% benzocaine to the injured target area. Next, a wand capable of generating ultrasonic vibration is placed in contact with the injured skin and activated. The clinician performs several passes of the wand over the entire surface of the injured target area in order to encourage penetration of the applied lithium chloride particles into the void spaces.

The preceding process is optionally performed iteratively with respect to additional target areas. Optionally, each target area is subject to injury by the fractional laser before any target area is contacted with physiologically active composition or subjected to ultrasonic vibration. Thus, the stratum corneum and epidermis may be removed and the void spaces may be formed with respect to all target areas prior to the application of any physiologically active composition or ultrasonic vibration, followed by the application of composition and ultrasonic vibration to all target areas. After ultrasonic vibration, the clinician may apply additional topical anaesthetic, antimicrobial compositions, bandaging, or any combination thereof, which marks the end of the treatment session for the subject.

----------


## the_dude78

> *Here is an updated scenario taken from the 2013 patent
> *
> 
> *A male subject with early stage pattern hair loss is seated in a stationary examination chair*


 Early stage pattern hair loss? So this is still not for the unfortunate ones? And exactly when does it stop being early stage hair loss? NW3 and up?

----------


## brunobald

> Early stage pattern hair loss? So this is still not for the unfortunate ones? And exactly when does it stop being early stage hair loss? NW3 and up?


 No it should work anywhere in any type of skin, regardless of current hair situation.

----------


## UK_

It says early stage thinning MPB.

So no hope for slick NW's.

So this is about as useful as finasteride without sides, and completely useless for anyone NW3+

 :Frown:

----------


## DesperateOne

> It says early stage thinning MPB.
> 
> So no hope for slick NW's.
> 
> So this is about as useful as finasteride without sides, and completely useless for anyone NW3+


 Wounding theory has absolutely nothing to do with the level of Norwood you're at. Assuming you don't have some weird genetic immune system desease, your body will respond the same as an early Norwood. That being said, we already have known for years that the higher Norwood you are, the harder it is to come back. I like to think of it like a farm, if you have a corn field that has been dried up for years, it will take much longer to get it there, but if it still has some crops, then it will be easier since it should still have nutrients. 

If you're a doctor coming out with a new procedure, of course you're going to choose the best candidate, it's just common sense. You are however, not allowed legally to claim it will work on worse cases simply because you didn't test on them, does that mean it will not work for NW6-7? Of course not, this procedure is about wounding, in fact you should be able to get hair in your arse if that's what you want.

Me and some of the members on another forum made real progress we believe on a new method of application. We came up with it based on the recent arise of the patents, I will be trying this new method out and will report back.

----------


## Thinning@30

I feel like this is a meaningless update.  I'm glad that Follica is still around and working on a hair loss treatment, but giving us no information about a timeline or what could be expected from a treatment is really irritating.  What does "soon" even mean anyway? A few months, a few years, sometime before the end of the current geologic era?

----------


## hellouser

> *I feel like this is a meaningless update.*  I'm glad that Follica is still around and working on a hair loss treatment, but giving us no information about a timeline or what could be expected from a treatment is really irritating.  What does "soon" even mean anyway? A few months, a few years, sometime before the end of the current geologic era?


 Seriously?

Meaningless? Rather than the timeline, they pretty much spilled the beans with their method which provides INCREDIBLE insight to it with far more value than a timeline. I can't understand why you would think its 'meaningless' Even if they provided a timeline, how would we or even they know how set that timeline would be given the fact that the FDA is so full of shit and would stall further progress anyway? Follica is in it to make money, the FDA is working against them. I wouldnt count on them giving a timeline because the FDA would somehow screw it up.

----------


## Westonci

> I use the 1.5mm, hurts like hell. *My whole head is covered with peach fuzz now, feels really funny, I rub it all day haha. Some thin black ones are starting to come in.* If all the fuzz turns into terminal hair, I'd have a full head of hair. But I don't want to get too optimistic yet.. I'll have pics when the results become more obvious on camera.


 ME TOO!!! And im not even taking, propecia, minox or anything else.

I feel so bad that I didnt start taking pictures when I started using my 1.5mm derm-stamp, its been six weeks and Im seeing my velus hair getting thicker and my hairline is starting to fill in and come back again. Im so lucky I caught the miniaturizing hairs in time.

----------


## brunobald

> ME TOO!!! And im not even taking, propecia, minox or anything else.
> 
> I feel so bad that I didnt start taking pictures when I started using my 1.5mm derm-stamp, its been six weeks and Im seeing my velus hair getting thicker and my hairline is starting to fill in and come back again. Im so lucky I caught the miniaturizing hairs in time.


 Take some pics now man. It may still improve.

----------


## brunobald

In other news Biopsy punches are quite cheap..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-5mm-8mm-...item51a4b6622c

Anyone know what lithium gluconate or lithium chloride is and its safety?

----------


## beetee133

There definitely seems to be a strong focus on the degree of hair loss, and it very clearly states that this treatment is for people with a low degree of hair loss: 

"A male subject with early stage pattern hair loss..."

"The clinician asseses the scalp of the subject, and upon determination that the subject has a relatively minor degree of hair loss..."

You can't just dismiss this very blatant fact.  Ultimately it may turn out that degree of hair loss does or does not matter, but based on what's in this patent, it would seem that at this point they think that it does matter.  Patents on medical processes are extremely carefully worded.  You can look at it and say that the fact they deliberately put this language in doesn't mean anything, but the facts are clearly stated and you can't dismiss them entirely without any equally compelling contrary evidence.  

I don't like this news either, but you can't just dismiss a fact because it's inconvenient or you don't like it.  Or I guess you can, but then you're just describing a personal fantasy and not reality.

----------


## hellouser

> There definitely seems to be a strong focus on the degree of hair loss, and it very clearly states that this treatment is for people with a low degree of hair loss: 
> 
> "A male subject with early stage pattern hair loss..."
> 
> "The clinician asseses the scalp of the subject, and upon determination that the subject has a relatively minor degree of hair loss..."
> 
> You can't just dismiss this very blatant fact.  Ultimately it may turn out that degree of hair loss does or does not matter, but based on what's in this patent, it would seem that at this point they think that it does matter.  Patents on medical processes are extremely carefully worded.  You can look at it and say that the fact they deliberately put this language in doesn't mean anything, but the facts are clearly stated and you can't dismiss them entirely without any equally compelling contrary evidence.  
> 
> I don't like this news either, but you can't just dismiss a fact because it's inconvenient or you don't like it.  Or I guess you can, but then you're just describing a personal fantasy and not reality.


 I very much doubt it has anything to do with the degree of hair loss. As seen in the publications and articles in the Dermarolling Community Trial thread, we know hair follicles are created after scalp burns, it grows after tattoo removal on arms as well as injuries on arms and then theres the 'Hairy Hand' case.

I'm of the opinion that the wording in the article is more so done as a safety measure to cover their ass should anything go wrong and not mislead people.

----------


## brunobald

http://www.drugs.com/international/lithioderm.html

8% Lithium Gluconate gel is needed to repeat whats in the patent. I think it is commonly available in france?

----------


## brunobald

> Example 1
> Method of Treatment of Skin
> 
> A method according to the present invention for effecting treatment of the skin on a human scalp is performed as follows. *A subject with near complete hair loss* and mild dyspigmentation on the scalp is seated in a stationary examination chair.


 Read the first patent again, this other guy is near bald. I would forget about it you can't draw any conclusions from this anyway.

----------


## DesperateOne

> http://www.drugs.com/international/lithioderm.html
> 
> 8% Lithium Gluconate gel is needed to repeat whats in the patent. I think it is commonly available in france?


 It seems that it is from France, Bruno, I have assigned you to find this out and where can we get it from. Focus on this and this alone for this week. 

It seems people here don't even want this procedure to work. Despite the results and the science behind it, some just refuse to accept it, I guess they're scared of success, which I know some people are.

----------


## hellouser

> Read the first patent again, this other guy is near bald. I would forget about it you can't draw any conclusions from this anyway.


 Even if, we can always repeat the treatments. Its about hair follicle NEOGENESIS. Just keep doing it on your scalp until your happy with the results.

----------


## hellouser

> It seems that it is from France, Bruno, I have assigned you to find this out and where can we get it from. Focus on this and this alone for this week. 
> 
> It seems people here don't even want this procedure to work. Despite the results and the science behind it, some just refuse to accept it, I guess they're scared of success, which I know some people are.


 Not me! I've been hammering away that we can and should replicate Follica's procedure as best as possible. With that patent being released and the method being so NICELY written out for us, holy shit, we're so damn close.

----------


## DesperateOne

> Even if, we can always repeat the treatments. Its about hair follicle NEOGENESIS. Just keep doing it on your scalp until your happy with the results.


 You're*

One of the first grammar errors I have seen from you, hellouser. That brain fog is getting to you, haha.

----------


## brunobald

Just found this from 2008  :EEK!: 

http://www.regrowth.com/hair-loss-fo...edling-method/

----------


## walrus

> In other news Biopsy punches are quite cheap..
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-5mm-8mm-...item51a4b6622c
> 
> Anyone know what lithium gluconate or lithium chloride is and its safety?


 "Lithium salts affect the central nervous system; see lithium pharmacology for more details. For a short time in the 1940s lithium chloride was manufactured as a salt substitute, but this was prohibited after the toxic effects of the compound were recognized"

----------


## clandestine

> Just found this from 2008 
> 
> http://www.regrowth.com/hair-loss-fo...edling-method/


 Guy called hatchet claiming terminal with dermabrasion and lithium.




> I did get some results with needling and lithium, but I have been experimenting with sandpaper and lithium and getting better results. By results, I mean obvious new terminal hairs where there were none before, within a confined spot (exactly within the precise area) and within a short timeframe. Extrapolated to the entire scalp, I believe the results could be pretty significant. Going full scale with the program requires some preparation and timing though (like if you have to go out in public, for example, after the dermabrasion). Of course, you could just listen to people like Going Cue Ball who never tried it. - See more at: http://www.regrowth.com/hair-loss-fo....8Y057HdF.dpuf

----------


## Hal0

> http://www.drugs.com/international/lithioderm.html
> 
> 8% Lithium Gluconate gel is needed to repeat whats in the patent. I think it is commonly available in france?


 Hi,

I live in France so i can try it,

Also I use the dermaroller since 3 weeks, so i can tell you if i see some improvement.

----------


## Thinning87

> ME TOO!!! And im not even taking, propecia, minox or anything else.
> 
> I feel so bad that I didnt start taking pictures when I started using my 1.5mm derm-stamp, its been six weeks and Im seeing my velus hair getting thicker and my hairline is starting to fill in and come back again. Im so lucky I caught the miniaturizing hairs in time.


 Please take some pictures. You're a mod so you're probably a reliable source of information.

----------


## Thinning@30

> Originally Posted by Thinning@30 View Post 
> I feel like this is a meaningless update. I'm glad that Follica is still around and working on a hair loss treatment, but giving us no information about a timeline or what could be expected from a treatment is really irritating. What does "soon" even mean anyway? A few months, a few years, sometime before the end of the current geologic era? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				Seriously?
> 
> Meaningless? Rather than the timeline, they pretty much spilled the beans with their method which provides INCREDIBLE insight to it with far more value than a timeline. I can't understand why you would think its 'meaningless' Even if they provided a timeline, how would we or even they know how set that timeline would be given the fact that the FDA is so full of shit and would stall further progress anyway? Follica is in it to make money, the FDA is working against them. I wouldnt count on them giving a timeline because the FDA would somehow screw it up.


 I admire the spirit behind your DIY approach, Hell, even if I don't share your optimism.  I'm just frustrated that we still don't have any idea of when Follica's treatment might come to market or any real idea of what this treatment could do for us.  I wish Follica could be more open the way Histogen and some others are.  I hate getting vague updates with no real information.

----------


## hellouser

> I admire the spirit behind your DIY approach, Hell, even if I don't share your optimism.  I'm just frustrated that we still don't have any idea of when Follica's treatment might come to market or any real idea of what this treatment could do for us.  I wish Follica could be more open the way Histogen and some others are.  I hate getting vague updates with no real information.


 But its a Huffington Post article, not from Follica directly. Don't worry about anyway, even if they did state a timeline, its at very minimum 2 years away (phase II and III need to be finished). In that time, WE need to replicate their theory and do it ourselves. Lets get it done man! Nothing is stopping us except for a little bit of time and money  :Smile:

----------


## thinningTooSoon

Hi all, 

I thought you might be interested to know this, whilst googling derma rolling I came across a clinic in the UK that offers this is a treatment for hair loss. Whilst doing the procedure they use a product called I use a product called AQ Solution Hair Complex. I emailed her about this and she had the following to say about it:

I use a product called AQ Solution Hair Complex - ADVANCED HAIR COMPLEX

Restores the health and regeneration of hair follicles to re-grow hair with a GF (growth factor)-technology formula
Natural, cutting-edge solution that targets the source of hair loss by restoring a healthy scalp
GF-technology returns a youthful, healthy hair cycle
Non-greasy, no unpleasant odor, and no side effects
it contains human fibroblast cells and peptides to stimulate the dormant follicles to produce hair again

I am no scientist, but this seems to be what Follica are trying to do, isn't it?

----------


## Pentarou

^ sounds like snake oil sold using impressive-sounding buzz words. Cosmetic/private medicine in the UK isn't regulated properly, beware.

----------


## gainspotter

> Hi all, 
> 
> I thought you might be interested to know this, whilst googling derma rolling I came across a clinic in the UK that offers this is a treatment for hair loss. Whilst doing the procedure they use a product called I use a product called AQ Solution Hair Complex. I emailed her about this and she had the following to say about it:
> 
> I use a product called AQ Solution Hair Complex - ADVANCED HAIR COMPLEX
> 
> Restores the health and regeneration of hair follicles to re-grow hair with a GF (growth factor)-technology formula
> Natural, cutting-edge solution that targets the source of hair loss by restoring a healthy scalp
> GF-technology returns a youthful, healthy hair cycle
> ...


 Go pay them a visit and report back if you are a nw0 after their treatment.
I will highly doubt it though.

----------


## thinningTooSoon

> Go pay them a visit and report back if you are a nw0 after their treatment.
> I will highly doubt it though.


 I asked her for any before and after photos, and unfortunately she had none so I think I won't be visiting!! Will be continuing with the Derma Roller trial though  :Smile:

----------


## gainspotter

> I asked her for any before and after photos, and unfortunately she had none so I think I won't be visiting!! Will be continuing with the Derma Roller trial though


 Sounds about right. Out of curiosity what is the clinic called?
I've been googling dermarolling lots lately but have never come across that link.

----------


## thinningTooSoon

> Sounds about right. Out of curiosity what is the clinic called?
> I've been googling dermarolling lots lately but have never come across that link.


 Diane Nivern Clinic

----------


## brunobald

Some more recent Follica articles in French I think.

http://www.maxisciences.com/calvitie..._art30728.html

http://www.topsante.com/beaute-et-so...-miracle-43969

----------


## Vox

> Some more recent Follica articles in French I think.
> 
> http://www.maxisciences.com/calvitie..._art30728.html
> 
> http://www.topsante.com/beaute-et-so...-miracle-43969


 Essentially they repeat what we already know here. There are just two details in the first article worth mentioning.

(1) They say that Follica is already conducting phase II trials on humans with success: newly generated follicles with their method turn into hair, a first as they say. Was that known already? It is new to me.

(2) The article starts by saying "American researchers announced that they are very close to commercialize a treatment that would allow hair regeneration". I am wondering, is it really so (close to commercialization) or did they need a catchy title?

----------


## Pentarou

I'd love it if the conspiracy theory turns out to be true that Aderans packed it in because they discovered that Follica would beat them to the market with a better/more permanent procedure.  :Big Grin:  If only, eh lads?

----------


## greatjob!

> I'd love it if the conspiracy theory turns out to be true that Aderans packed it in because they discovered that Follica would beat them to the market with a better/more permanent procedure.  If only, eh lads?


 I would be sooooo happy!!!

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

is here any investor big economic guy to know info from the inside to confirm our hopes?
because if cotsarelis outperforms aderans and histogen and all then who cares

----------


## greatjob!

> is here any investor big economic guy to know info from the inside to confirm our hopes?
> because if cotsarelis outperforms aderans and histogen and all then who cares


 I'm pretty sure both companies are privately funded, so the only people who would have any info like this would be large capital investors who would be under nondisclosure agreements and would be idiots for leaking info about either company.

----------


## hellouser

> I'd love it if the conspiracy theory turns out to be true that Aderans packed it in because they discovered that Follica would beat them to the market with a better/more permanent procedure.  If only, eh lads?


 Definitely very much a possibility. No point in releasing a product, spending more time, resources, funding, etc. to know your product is going to get obliterated.

----------


## UK_

> Essentially they repeat what we already know here. There are just two details in the first article worth mentioning.
> 
> (1) They say that Follica is already conducting phase II trials on humans with success: newly generated follicles with their method turn into hair, a first as they say. Was that known already? It is new to me.
> 
> (2) The article starts by saying "American researchers announced that they are very close to commercialize a treatment that would allow hair regeneration". I am wondering, is it really so (close to commercialization) or did they need a catchy title?


 The day these comments come from Follica directly I will believe them, until then, I will never believe journalists because they are just bullshitters.

----------


## HairBane

> I'd love it if the conspiracy theory turns out to be true that Aderans packed it in because they discovered that Follica would beat them to the market with a better/more permanent procedure.  If only, eh lads?


 Ooh, I like that.

----------


## Pentarou

> Ooh, I like that.


 Purely baseless speculation on my part there, and probably a 'too good to be true' outcome in reality, but if events transpire that way... a whole lot of things that happened over the last year or so would suddenly make sense.

----------


## Thinning87

Keep emotions in check guys, stay cautiously optimistic.

----------


## BoSox

I agree.. stay cautiously optimistic. I'll believe it when I can comb it.

----------


## mnhair

between this and niagam/mwamba, there's some genuine hope for the near future, maybe not next year, but 2-3

----------


## HairBane

> between this and niagam/mwamba, there's some genuine hope for the near future, maybe not next year, but 2-3


 Yeah, it seems like circa 2015-2016 there'll be some new things coming to fruition, particularly in Asia, but possibly even in the USA with follica and donor doubling. 

I think the first generations of these treatments will be far from perfect though, and won't take a Norwood 7 to a Norwood 1 and look totally normal. I would expect later iterations to be capable of that though.

It's great if you're less than Norwood 3 right now and on fin, these treatments could get you a juvenile hairline and fill in any gaps without look weird at all.

----------


## StayThick

> Yeah, it seems like circa 2015-2016 there'll be some new things coming to fruition, particularly in Asia, but possibly even in the USA with follica and donor doubling. 
> 
> I think the first generations of these treatments will be far from perfect though, and won't take a Norwood 7 to a Norwood 1 and look totally normal. I would expect later iterations to be capable of that though.
> 
> It's great if you're less than Norwood 3 right now and on fin, these treatments could get you a juvenile hairline and fill in any gaps without look weird at all.


 That's if you can tolerate fin or if you choose to take it in the first place. Not everybody is willing to take that garbage.

We need these future treatments to come sooner than later. Hormone effecting drug shouldn't be our best solution at this point. It's embarrassing.

----------


## Pentarou

> Hormone effecting drug shouldn't be our best solution at this point. It's embarrassing.


 I strongly agree, as a fin user.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> That's if you can tolerate fin or if you choose to take it in the first place. Not everybody is willing to take that garbage.
> 
> We need these future treatments to come sooner than later. Hormone effecting drug shouldn't be our best solution at this point. It's embarrassing.


 I think it's disgusting how we are encouraged to play with our hormones by HT drs and spencer - they should all be ashamed of themselves.

----------


## fred970

I told myself the same when I visited some surgeons. And they always talk like finasteride will stop your hair loss forever. All those NW3 on finasteride that have had a HT, they will lose their hair behind the transplanted area at a point. If finasteride stopped hair loss forever, that's it, we would already have a "cure".

My GP and my dermatologist were against using finasteride from the beginning. I'm still thankful they didn't prescribe it to me.

----------


## doinmyheadin

Unfortunately fin is all we have at the moment that is proven to work. I would prefer not to take it too.  But would rather keep my hair. I regret not taking it a year or so earlier as i was in denial instead of getting a transplant. Transplanted hairs are just not natural in the hairline.

 I hope some of you guys who have not tried fin dont come to regret not trying to keep what hair you have.

Hurry up Follica we need a new treatment. That works....

----------


## deuce

Man I got some bad news.  I emailed Follica and told them I was suffering, and just asked for some more information on their future products.  They said they are not in any clinical trials right now, and stay tuned to their website for updates.  I thought they were in Phase 2 trials.  WTF?  I feel like crying.  I had a horrible day today, and this was the icing on the cake.  ****KKKK BALDNESS.  Its the stupidest shit ever.

----------


## burtandernie

I would take something over nothing any day, but I would much much rather have a non invasive way to keep my hair however that can work than have to get some hair transplant kind of thing whether its cloning or whatever they do.
I want an alternative to propecia to just keep my hair like CB 03 01 is promising. If CB fails we are in deep trouble.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Man I got some bad news.  I emailed Follica and told them I was suffering, and just asked for some more information on their future products.  They said they are not in any clinical trials right now, and stay tuned to their website for updates.  I thought they were in Phase 2 trials.  WTF?  I feel like crying.  I had a horrible day today, and this was the icing on the cake.  ****KKKK BALDNESS.  Its the stupidest shit ever.


 tbh your best bet are donor regeneration surgeries or histogen.

----------


## HairBane

> Man I got some bad news.  I emailed Follica and told them I was suffering, and just asked for some more information on their future products.  They said they are not in any clinical trials right now, and stay tuned to their website for updates.  I thought they were in Phase 2 trials.  WTF?  I feel like crying.  I had a horrible day today, and this was the icing on the cake.  ****KKKK BALDNESS.  Its the stupidest shit ever.


 Didn't they start phase 2 trials a while ago? So it could be that they're just looking at their results, or preparing for 2b/3 or whatever. I wouldn't worry about that. Take comfort from the fact that if a company really comes up with the first game changing hairloss treatment, it's creators and investors will do anything to get it to market ASAP, because they'll be billionaires and go down in history. If follica's method is as good as it sounds, they won't just piss about waiting for replicel, HSC, aderans etc. to beat them to market.

----------


## deuce

I hope so man.  The lady who replied to my email said something like rest assured we are working on curing baldness.  Then she said, but there is nothing in clinical trials right now.  Check the website for updates.

----------


## HairBane

Well, Follica seem to be very secretive generally. A few guys on here do seem to know more about them though, so maybe they can give more info. I'm sure someone mentioned that they may not even need clinical trials because all the substances they use are already approved.

I'm reassured by their confidence (bordering on arrogance) that they have THE cure for hairloss.

----------


## locke999

> Well, Follica seem to be very secretive generally. A few guys on here do seem to know more about them though, so maybe they can give more info. I'm sure someone mentioned that they may not even need clinical trials because all the substances they use are already approved.
> 
> I'm reassured by their confidence (bordering on arrogance) that they have THE cure for hairloss.


 Can you link to the article that displays their confidence in having a cure.

----------


## HairBane

> Can you link to the article that displays their confidence in having a cure.


 I don't know specific articles, I'm no expert on them, I just get that feeling from everything I've read and seen of them. They say they can definitely grow hair on human skin, which is a cure.

----------


## HairlossAt15

> Man I got some bad news.  I emailed Follica and told them I was suffering, and just asked for some more information on their future products.  They said they are not in any clinical trials right now, and stay tuned to their website for updates.  I thought they were in Phase 2 trials.  WTF?  I feel like crying.  I had a horrible day today, and this was the icing on the cake.  ****KKKK BALDNESS.  Its the stupidest shit ever.


 The CEO has said that they are doing phase 2 human trials.

----------


## baldybald

if they regrew some hair, then why are they not showing us pictures ?

----------


## reckless

> if they regrew some hair, then why are they not showing us pictures ?


 My only hope is that the results are so good that they are worried that it may scare their competitors!

----------


## Hair87

Follica is under going Human Clinical Studies. 

See this link
http://www.puretechventures.com/pipeline.php

----------


## the_dude78

> if they regrew some hair, then why are they not showing us pictures ?


 because they know they have it, and maybe it'll be here sooner than we expect. I actually find it to be a positive sign when they say "soon" rather than giving us the usual 5 years crap. Maybe two years?

----------


## locke999

> because they know they have it, and maybe it'll be here sooner than we expect. I actually find it to be a positive sign when they say "soon" rather than giving us the usual 5 years crap. Maybe two years?


 They never said soon. That was what an article by Huffington Post said and they basically regurgitated information from older articles.

----------


## burtandernie

Why does a company going through trials show anyone pictures until its all said and done? Something like this is going to come out of nowhere where all these forum guys never talked about it or heard of it and its going to be a game changer. A lot of the big things on the radar will probably fizzle

----------


## Pentarou

So basically, Follica *aren't* undergoing clinical trials?

----------


## HairBane

> So basically, Follica *aren't* undergoing clinical trials?


 Conflicting reports, but apparently they are undergoing clinical trials

----------


## hellouser

> Conflicting reports, but apparently they are undergoing clinical trials


 Spencer and Joe From Staten Island both stated they are in human clinical trials and both said that Follica succesfully grew hair through NEOGENESIS.

Puretech Ventures which is funding Follica, clearly states on their website they are in Human Clinical Trials:

http://www.puretechventures.com/pipeline.php

From what I've read/heard, Follica doesn't need a complete 3 phase trials as the substances theyre using to generate new follicles are 'known substances' and apparently they only need approval for the wounding device (which, what we know from the released patents is a laser). If anyone has more concrete info, please correct me on any of the points i've made, im not 100% sure, theres too much info coming through the pipes lately with all the hair loss solutions (which, is a good thing, finally)

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Spencer and Joe From Staten Island both stated they are in human clinical trials and both said that Follica succesfully grew hair through NEOGENESIS.
> 
> Puretech Ventures which is funding Follica, clearly states on their website they are in Human Clinical Trials:
> 
> http://www.puretechventures.com/pipeline.php
> 
> From what I've read/heard, Follica doesn't need a complete 3 phase trials as the substances theyre using to generate new follicles are 'known substances' and apparently they only need approval for the wounding device (which, what we know from the released patents is a laser). If anyone has more concrete info, please correct me on any of the points i've made, im not 100% sure, theres too much info coming through the pipes lately with all the hair loss solutions (which, is a good thing, finally)


 So why is it taking AGES to get it onto market?

----------


## hiilikeyourbeard

> So why is it taking AGES to get it onto market?


 i for one think follica could really be something huge. you can't rush it. once they know it's safe and get approval on the device they use i'm sure it'll be here. exciting stuff regardless. what i really wanna know is what kind of hairs they can grow. if it's just white crappy hair that would suck. cause if it's thick terminal hair we're all cured pretty much with this procedure, unless for some reason your body rejects it

----------


## reckless

Well they were able to grow proper hair on the mice, full coverage.

We can only hope it does the same for humans.

If it's just going to give average minoxidil results then they won't have many takers.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> i for one think follica could really be something huge. you can't rush it. once they know it's safe and get approval on the device they use i'm sure it'll be here. exciting stuff regardless. what i really wanna know is what kind of hairs they can grow. if it's just white crappy hair that would suck. cause if it's thick terminal hair we're all cured pretty much with this procedure, unless for some reason your body rejects it


 Or it could be like aderans, delaying and delaying until the truth comes out.

----------


## hellouser

> So why is it taking AGES to get it onto market?


 If I had the answer for you, I'd tell you. I really don't know. But every day that Follica isn't selling their procedure is a day of lost revenue and profits. The hair loss industry is insanely gigantic, I hope they realize that the sooner they release a working product the sooner we can all stuff their revenue stream with millions upon millions of dollars (collectively). There's nothing on the market now that would compete with them, HT's would essentially be rendered stone age treatments (other than potential regeneration, which isn't verified yet either). They'd basically have the ENTIRE market to themselves, a multi-billion dollar industry to capitalize on with ZERO competitors. They better know how much theyre losing out on while not having a product.

----------


## Artha

I hope this is the real deal!

----------


## Vox

> The hair loss industry is insanely gigantic


 Indeed, this is what they say here:

_Treatments for conditions of the follicle account for a total market exceeding $10 billion annually, despite a lack of truly effective solutions._

----------


## hellouser

> Indeed, this is what they say here:
> 
> _Treatments for conditions of the follicle account for a total market exceeding $10 billion annually, despite a lack of truly effective solutions._


 What is the percentage of men that actually do something about their hair loss? I know its a rather small number, but the 10 billion dollar mark could be even higher IF there was a legitimate treatment as more men/women would be willing to actually spend the money for it, as a vast majority dont.

Lets do some math!

There are 7 billion people in the world, half of which are male. 50% of the worlds population was under 30 years of in 2012. So, we have 1.75 billion men in the world over the age of 30.  Let's assume about 50% of the 1.75B men are balding, thus: 875 million. (25-33% of men are balding before 30 years of age, and up to around 66% by around age 50). But now we need to know how many men are actually seeking hair loss treatments. In China its around 47%. Let's go with that figure seeing how china's population trumps everything else. So now we have about 437 million men worldwide battling hair loss, roughly. Lets be generous and bring it down to around HALF of that; 220 million.

Now, this isn't even taking into account women or men under 30 years of age (which is a gigantic number in its own right).

Follica needs to hurry the hell up, those many hundreds of millions of people seeking treatments will have to be divided with Histogen and Replicel and if Pilofocus/Dr. Nigams hair doubling do in fact give regeneration, Follica is going to get an even smaller piece of the pie.

They're wasting precious time.

----------


## greatjob!

> What is the percentage of men that actually do something about their hair loss? I know its a rather small number, but the 10 billion dollar mark could be even higher IF there was a legitimate treatment as more men/women would be willing to actually spend the money for it, as a vast majority dont.
> 
> Lets do some math!
> 
> There are 7 billion people in the world, half of which are male. 50% of the worlds population was under 30 years of in 2012. So, we have 1.75 billion men in the world over the age of 30.  Let's assume about 50% of the 1.75B men are balding, thus: 875 million. (25-33% of men are balding before 30 years of age, and up to around 66% by around age 50). But now we need to know how many men are actually seeking hair loss treatments. In China its around 47%. Let's go with that figure seeing how china's population trumps everything else. So now we have about 437 million men worldwide battling hair loss, roughly. Lets be generous and bring it down to around HALF of that; 220 million.
> 
> Now, this isn't even taking into account women or men under 30 years of age (which is a gigantic number in its own right).
> 
> Follica needs to hurry the hell up, those many hundreds of millions of people seeking treatments will have to be divided with Histogen and Replicel and if Pilofocus/Dr. Nigams hair doubling do in fact give regeneration, Follica is going to get an even smaller piece of the pie.
> ...


 I wonder if when a cure/treatment actually does come out how long it will take the majority of the public to believe it. Most people write everything off as bullshit because of all the years of snake oil being shoved down our throats. I know everyone on the forum communities will be lining up to get treated, but I bet their will be a significant lag in time before the general public actually buy into a cure.

----------


## HairBane

The way I see going is this: One of Follica, Replicel, Histogen or another come to market in 2015-2016. Their treatment works, but isn't great, and certainly isn't a cure from NW7-1, maybe the results look very slightly odd, or the regrowth isn't a huge amount. It will initially be used to supplement transplants, or give some very substantial filler to people with thinning or receding NW2-3 to NW1-2. It will also probably need to be re-done occasionally, and an anti-androgen taken to keep non-DHT-resistant hair.

I also think it will initially be quite expensive, somewhere between a few years supply of propecia and a hair transplant most likely.

So I don't think that it will happen in the way some of you see it happening (a single biotech hair regen company comes to market, destroys all the competition and almost all balding people get it immediately). It will be a fairly slow take-off probably - we will all improve our hair because we're all fanboys and money and anti-androgens and multiple procedures won't get in our way. But until it comes down in cost and the efficacy is pretty much perfect (probably around 2020-2025?) it will be a gradual shift towards these kind of treatments over the traditional, and most balding men still won't use them.

----------


## hellouser

> I wonder if when a cure/treatment actually does come out how long it will take the majority of the public to believe it. Most people write everything off as bullshit because of all the years of snake oil being shoved down our throats. I know everyone on the forum communities will be lining up to get treated, but I bet their will be a significant lag in time before the general public actually buy into a cure.


 There definitely will be a transitional period of time before proper treatments are widely accepted. But, I, and I'm sure you yourself will feel somewhat similar, would rather be first in line than have the rest of the world benefit from it. Obviously guys on the forums have been more progressive in finding treatments and we'll be the first to know. I hope all of us on the forums are amongst the first to get cured. I really don't want to any more time on these damn forums.

----------


## deuce

Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but why would the lady who works on follica's research team tell me they are not in trials.  People need to face the facts that a cure is long away still.  I have been coming to these sites for 3 years and nothing has come to fruition in that time.  Absolutely nothing.  PdG2 was the big thing and that fizzled out.  Follica will fizzle out.  They are not even in trials.  Hair loss sucks and is bullshit fellas.  I just want to wake up one day, and the headlines say, "Follica has cure for baldness and will be on shelves in 6 months"  I mean how unbelievable would that be?  I can only dream. It just doesnt look like its going to happen.

----------


## hellouser

> Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but why would the lady who works on follica's research team tell me they are not in trials.  People need to face the facts that a cure is long away still.  I have been coming to these sites for 3 years and nothing has come to fruition in that time.  Absolutely nothing.  PdG2 was the big thing and that fizzled out.  Follica will fizzle out.  They are not even in trials.  Hair loss sucks and is bullshit fellas.  I just want to wake up one day, and the headlines say, "Follica has cure for baldness and will be on shelves in 6 months"  I mean how unbelievable would that be?  I can only dream. It just doesnt look like its going to happen.


 Worse than your negativity is you spreading misinformation:




> Spencer and Joe From Staten Island both stated they are in human clinical trials and both said that Follica succesfully grew hair through NEOGENESIS.
> 
> Puretech Ventures which is funding Follica, clearly states on their website they are in Human Clinical Trials:
> 
> http://www.puretechventures.com/pipeline.php
> 
> From what I've read/heard, Follica doesn't need a complete 3 phase trials as the substances theyre using to generate new follicles are 'known substances' and apparently they only need approval for the wounding device (which, what we know from the released patents is a laser). If anyone has more concrete info, please correct me on any of the points i've made, im not 100% sure, theres too much info coming through the pipes lately with all the hair loss solutions (which, is a good thing, finally)


 Notice that according to Follica's backing, they are about HALF WAY through human clinical trials.

----------


## deuce

I may be negative dude, but I am a realist.  There is nothing that is coming in the next year or so.  You may not like my opinion or my ideas, but it is the truth.  Hair loss sucks man, I wish every person on here did not have to deal with this shit.  What is even worse about it is there is nothing we can do about it.  Where does it say on that website that they are in clinical trials.  The person that is on the board of researchers for  the fckin study says they have nothing in trials right now.  So how am I spreading misinformation.  I have been on here for years, and nothing has come to fruition.  Hellouser I do not mean to get anyone mad or let anybody down.  I just come here to vent man.  I hope I am wrong.  I am just sick of getting my hopes up and let down.  Cotsarelis also said 2 years ago that we could see a cure on shelves in a few years and nothing happened.

----------


## hellouser

> I may be negative dude, but I am a realist.  There is nothing that is coming in the next year or so.  You may not like my opinion or my ideas, but it is the truth.  Hair loss sucks man, I wish every person on here did not have to deal with this shit.  What is even worse about it is there is nothing we can do about it.  Where does it say on that website that they are in clinical trials.  The person that is on the board of researchers for  the fckin study says they have nothing in trials right now.  So how am I spreading misinformation.  I have been on here for years, and nothing has come to fruition.  Hellouser I do not mean to get anyone mad or let anybody down.  I just come here to vent man.  I hope I am wrong.  I am just sick of getting my hopes up and let down.  Cotsarelis also said 2 years ago that we could see a cure on shelves in a few years and nothing happened.


 You're not a prophet and thus you, nor anyone else has any idea of what is or what is not going to be available in a year or two. THATS realism. If Dr. Nigam's doubling technique is verified by Dr. Mwamba or Dr. Wesley's Pilofocus show's regeneration, we'll be set by next year. Follica won't as relative until they release their product.

And my god, the link I provided, TWICE after another member posted it CLEARLY shows they are half way through human clinical trials.

----------


## TheSwingingGate

Maybe they are not technically in trials at this moment, perhaps they are between trials.

----------


## deuce

Hellouser I hope you are right man.  I am not arguing with you or trying to get in a pissing match.  Hey if I was a prophet I sure would not be on this site.  I am just a realist, and from lack of evidence there is nothing coming out soon.  I hope it does, and what is a puretech venture.  That site is not legit.  You do not see anything on the clinicaltrials.gov about Follica.  HEy I would agree with you, BUT THE PERSON ON FOLLICA"S RESEARCH TEAM TOLD ME THERE IS NOTHING IN TRIALS RIGHT NOW.  Email them if you do not believe me.  Best wishes people.  I hope something does come out. I am just sick of false hopes.

----------


## hellouser

> Hellouser I hope you are right man.  I am not arguing with you or trying to get in a pissing match.  Hey if I was a prophet I sure would not be on this site.  I am just a realist, and from lack of evidence there is nothing coming out soon.  I hope it does, and what is a puretech venture.  That site is not legit.  You do not see anything on the clinicaltrials.gov about Follica.  HEy I would agree with you, BUT THE PERSON ON FOLLICA"S RESEARCH TEAM TOLD ME THERE IS NOTHING IN TRIALS RIGHT NOW.  Email them if you do not believe me.  Best wishes people.  I hope something does come out. I am just sick of false hopes.


 Puretech Ventures is whats driving all of Follica's finances. Theyre the ones responsible for their funding. Without them, Follica wound need to have funding elsewhere. Looking at Puretech Ventures, looks like theyre involved in a lot of healthcare ventures, which is GOOD... unlike Aderans where they just sell f**king wigs! Anyway, the site is 100% legit. The information is there and absolutely verifies where Follica is.

Ignore what the PR person said to from Follica, I'd take their word with a grain of salt anyway. However, they could be just about to be starting Phase II trials, so maybe theyre not in trials RIGHT NOW, but we do know they finished Phase I. I can't remember, but did Spencer & Joe from Staten Island say they are IN phase II trials or WILL BE in Phase II trials?

----------


## deuce

Oh ok I got ya.  I did not realize what puretech was.  Well that is good news.  I do not remember either what Spencer and Joe said it was vague.  I really hope this comes to fruition.  I wish these companies would release updates every month instead of once or twice a year. I think I am going to try to stay off the site for at least a month, and just dermaroll.  Its hard to stay off these sites though.  Hellouser and everyone else I admire your drive and passion for curing this.  I wish we could do more.  If i hit the lottery tomorrow.  I would hire a team of scientist and testters to find the right vehicle and safety of CB for everyone and make unlimited supplies of it and give it away, but hey its not going to happen.  Good luck everyone.  I will be back soon.

----------


## hellouser

> Oh ok I got ya.  I did not realize what puretech was.  Well that is good news.  I do not remember either what Spencer and Joe said it was vague.  I really hope this comes to fruition.  I wish these companies would release updates every month instead of once or twice a year. I think I am going to try to stay off the site for at least a month, and just dermaroll.  Its hard to stay off these sites though.  Hellouser and everyone else I admire your drive and passion for curing this.  I wish we could do more.  If i hit the lottery tomorrow.  I would hire a team of scientist and testters to find the right vehicle and safety of CB for everyone and make unlimited supplies of it and give it away, but hey its not going to happen.  Good luck everyone.  I will be back soon.


 Good luck man! There's still plenty of room to experiment with! I'm still a firm believer that a combination of things may help and am on the lookout for injecting FGF-9 right after wounding. Just gotta see if its safe!

----------


## Hair87

Is well known that follica is not disclosing anything right now.

Excerpt from Xconomy



> Few stories have struck a chord with Xconomys readership quite like that of Follica, the PureTech Ventures-incubated startup founded in 2006 with plans to combat male and female pattern baldness by using adult stem cells to grow new hair follicles. Unfortunately, details regarding Follicas sciencelet alone its clinical progresshave been as tough to spot as a good toupee.


 Link: http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2013/0...dness-therapy/

And there is a legit source which says Follica is indeed going through clinical trials

Excerpt from PR newswire



> The company has run a series of human clinical trials, including a Phase IIa trial, which have demonstrated follicular neogenesis in humans for the first time.


 Link: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...209914441.html

----------


## HairlossAt15

Guys the clinical trials are ongoing and the science is sound (peer-reviewed and would not be published if was found to be inaccurate). Its pointless coming on here speculating 24/7 based off your made up opinions and putting down hard-working scientists far more important and better than you......... Not to mention 100s of 100s of 100s of times smarter.....

A simple google search can prove they are in clinical trials and a bit of time spent reading there peer-reviewed, painstakingly proved scientific papers(multiple tests on 100s of mice, tabulation and interpretation of data - which none of us would be able to make any sense of) is more than enough evidence they know what there doing. If you dont like it then perhaps you should get the correct qualifications and research it yourself.... But you would rather sit here moaning about how hard you're life is whilst they dedicate there lives to others.

Any confusion is generated by the media or your own inability to see the facts....

A harsh but real truth.

----------


## TravisB

> Worse than your negativity is you spreading misinformation:
> 
> 
> 
> Notice that according to Follica's backing, they are about HALF WAY through human clinical trials.


 Wow, this Puretech site is very good news indeed! I haven't seen it before.

So this basically confirms Follica are halfway through human trials (so they probably passed phase IIa).

But as far as I know they were injecting lithium since beginning of the trials, and they came up with injecting FGF-9 only recently.

So what we don't know is if they will continue the trials with FGF9 from Phase IIb, or will they have to start them from Phase I again?

Here, I found that FGF9 was only involved in preclinical trials so far. That's not the good news I think...

http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2013/0...dness-therapy/




> [An earlier version of this story indicated that Follica used that protein, Fgf9, in its clinical trial. *Olle later clarified that the protein, Fgf9, has only been involved in Follica's preclinical work so far*].

----------


## Artha

Yeah and Puretech seem legit!

----------


## UK_

My feelings tell me Follica have just finished phase IIA and are currently looking at going into Phase IIb/IIIa which have not started yet, so technically they are not conducting trials at the moment... I think Phase IIb/IIIa will start early - mid 2014.

----------


## KJ1982

> My feelings tell me Follica have just finished phase IIA and are currently looking at going into Phase IIb/IIIa which have not started yet, so technically they are not conducting trials at the moment... I think Phase IIb/IIIa will start early - mid 2014.


 That sounds about right and, so far as I'm concerned, would make the most sense; I can't remember where exactly I've seen or heard it, but I'm sure that a couple of sources close to those doing the research have said that they'd like to release in Asian territories in 2015 if possible.

If Phase IIb starts in 2014 then it's possible that such a projected date may be achievable.  :Smile:

----------


## SOTF

I haven't looked into Follica in a while. Where are people getting this information from that they are in trials WITH Fgf9? When that xeconomy article came out people on this forum misinterpreted it as claiming they have regrown human hair with it IN trials already when the only trials they had undergone was wounding WITH LITHIUM.

----------


## hellouser

> That sounds about right and, so far as I'm concerned, would make the most sense; I can't remember where exactly I've seen or heard it, but I'm sure that a couple of sources close to those doing the research have said that they'd like to release in Asian territories in 2015 if possible.
> 
> If Phase IIb starts in 2014 then it's possible that such a projected date may be achievable.


 That's histogen and replicel aiming for an Asia  release,  not Follica.

----------


## KJ1982

> That's histogen and replicel aiming for an Asia  release,  not Follica.


 Ah, yes, of course. My mistake.  :Smile: 

Still, here's hoping!

----------


## greatjob!

> There definitely will be a transitional period of time before proper treatments are widely accepted. But, I, and I'm sure you yourself will feel somewhat similar, would rather be first in line than have the rest of the world benefit from it. Obviously guys on the forums have been more progressive in finding treatments and we'll be the first to know. I hope all of us on the forums are amongst the first to get cured. I really don't want to any more time on these damn forums.


 Oh yeah I was just speculating on the revenue figures you were posting, as I'm sure the general pubic will be behind the curve when a cure comes out.  But I really could give a shit less because all of us in the forum communities will be first in line, and as selfish as it sounds I'll get my hair back and I could careless about anyone else or the company making money, F-it I just want hair!!

And I really would love to never spend one minute on this or any other hair loss forum!

----------


## moore

> What is the percentage of men that actually do something about their hair loss? I know its a rather small number, but the 10 billion dollar mark could be even higher IF there was a legitimate treatment as more men/women would be willing to actually spend the money for it, as a vast majority dont.
> 
> Lets do some math!
> 
> There are 7 billion people in the world, half of which are male. 50% of the worlds population was under 30 years of in 2012. So, we have 1.75 billion men in the world over the age of 30.  Let's assume about 50% of the 1.75B men are balding, thus: 875 million. (25-33% of men are balding before 30 years of age, and up to around 66% by around age 50). But now we need to know how many men are actually seeking hair loss treatments. In China its around 47%. Let's go with that figure seeing how china's population trumps everything else. So now we have about 437 million men worldwide battling hair loss, roughly. Lets be generous and bring it down to around HALF of that; 220 million.
> 
> Now, this isn't even taking into account women or men under 30 years of age (which is a gigantic number in its own right).
> 
> Follica needs to hurry the hell up, those many hundreds of millions of people seeking treatments will have to be divided with Histogen and Replicel and if Pilofocus/Dr. Nigams hair doubling do in fact give regeneration, Follica is going to get an even smaller piece of the pie.
> ...


 @hellouser, I really like you math approach.
I really do, your every post seems quite reasonable.

I just have one question for you, and I want to ask it to you from a novice point of view. 
I haven't been around here as you did, so..respect to who knows more than me.

Let's take minoxidil and finasteride, the only two FDA approved substances.
Correct the following sentence if it is wrong:
"They were found to be effective against MPB by pure chance"

Let's say companies like Follica are working on a cure.

From my perspective there is an "edge" here.
The more effort is put to find a cure to MPB which is DIRECTED TOWARD IT, with associated costs, the bigger is the TOTAL RISK* to fail in the human trials (be it phase I, II, does not matter now). 

*TOTAL RISK = losing every single dollar you invested in it.

What do you think  about that?

Ps Yes, you could answer me, "one day or another, somebody will succeed".

----------


## mnhair

> @hellouser, I really like you math approach.
> I really do, your every post seems quite reasonable.
> 
> I just have one question for you, and I want to ask it to you from a novice point of view. 
> I haven't been around here as you did, so..respect to who knows more than me.
> 
> Let's take minoxidil and finasteride, the only two FDA approved substances.
> Correct the following sentence if it is wrong:
> "They were found to be effective against MPB by pure chance"
> ...


 Astressin-B would found out by chance (full hair regrowth on mice), and yet there's been no progress on that.

----------


## hellouser

> @hellouser, I really like you math approach.
> I really do, your every post seems quite reasonable.
> 
> I just have one question for you, and I want to ask it to you from a novice point of view. 
> I haven't been around here as you did, so..respect to who knows more than me.
> 
> Let's take minoxidil and finasteride, the only two FDA approved substances.
> Correct the following sentence if it is wrong:
> "They were found to be effective against MPB by pure chance"
> ...


 Well, it will happen some day. It better happen within a few years. I'll be right pissed if it doesn't. However, when and how is pure speculation, but since we're putting our hopes on Follica, it may be within a few years and we have a general idea of how it will be administered due to the publicly released patents.

The risk of them losing money now is near zero... but thats IF the hair that they claimed to be able to create with neogenesis is actually terminal hair. Spencer Kobren and Joe From Staten Island both commented and confirmed that Follica did successfully grow new hair from neogenesis in human clinical trials and are now in Phase IIb trials. But thats as much info as we know. So if its terminal hair... we can basically say 'case closed' and wait until Follica is given the green light and put snake oil salesman out of business and bury them into such a deep hole they'll never know the meaning of light... as they should.

But, I think they do have the cure. Why? Well, we saw from the barbecue head guy grew terminal hair after wounding, laser tattoo removal grew new hair, the hairy hand case and the kid with his arm that grew hair all over. All of the cases exhibited terminal hairs. So, Follica is perfecting this method and I'm fairly certain they've got it figured out.

I'm still hoping/pushing that we try to get around their procedure ourselves somehow... still believe injections or some kind of application of FGF-9 after wounding may get us there. So far, noone has been brave enough to try it. FGF-9 is available at 5mcg for $50.

----------


## Pentarou

> So if its terminal hair... we can basically say 'case closed' and wait until Follica is given the green light and put snake oil salesman out of business and bury them into such a deep hole they'll never know the meaning of light... as they should.


 I'd so like to see Follica suceed if only because it'd mean an instant end to all the worthless black market "experimental" treatments, e.g. BNP-32, TB4, whatever is being pushed at the time, far too many to list!

----------


## hellouser

> I'd so like to see Follica suceed if only because it'd mean an instead end to all the black market "experimental" treatments that go nowhere, e.g. BNP-32, TB4, too many to list!


 BNP-32 was never sold though, it was purely experimental.

----------


## locke999

When did Spencer confirm that Follica was in phase 2B? Follica website's indicate that they are still working on 2A.

----------


## hellouser

> When did Spencer confirm that Follica was in phase 2B? Follica website's indicate that they are still working on 2A.


 My bad, its so hard to keep up with all the news. Yes, they're in IIa




> To my knowledge, Follica is in Phase IIa studies;
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbJiy37BmhE
> 
> Go to the 20:00 minute mark and Joe From Staten Island says:
> 
> 'Ladies and gentlemen, for the first time in history, Follica is in Phase IIa studies. They have performed follicular neogenesis on human beings. My god.'
> 
> Spencer Kobren confirms this. Listen to the rest of the bit as well.
> ...

----------


## Kalio

How will this work? Will Follica be some kind of injectable or rather just a topical? If its applied per injection, will it be mandatory to repeat the treatment every year or so?

----------


## DepressedByHairLoss

> Well, it will happen some day. It better happen within a few years. I'll be right pissed if it doesn't. However, when and how is pure speculation, but since we're putting our hopes on Follica, it may be within a few years and we have a general idea of how it will be administered due to the publicly released patents.
> 
> The risk of them losing money now is near zero... but thats IF the hair that they claimed to be able to create with neogenesis is actually terminal hair. Spencer Kobren and Joe From Staten Island both commented and confirmed that Follica did successfully grow new hair from neogenesis in human clinical trials and are now in Phase IIb trials. But thats as much info as we know. So if its terminal hair... we can basically say 'case closed' and wait until Follica is given the green light and put snake oil salesman out of business and bury them into such a deep hole they'll never know the meaning of light... as they should.
> 
> But, I think they do have the cure. Why? Well, we saw from the barbecue head guy grew terminal hair after wounding, laser tattoo removal grew new hair, the hairy hand case and the kid with his arm that grew hair all over. All of the cases exhibited terminal hairs. So, Follica is perfecting this method and I'm fairly certain they've got it figured out.
> 
> I'm still hoping/pushing that we try to get around their procedure ourselves somehow... still believe injections or some kind of application of FGF-9 after wounding may get us there. So far, noone has been brave enough to try it. FGF-9 is available at 5mcg for $50.


 Hellouser, I am interested in that 3rd paragraph where you talk about these people regrowing hair.  Can you maybe provide some links?  I'd love to read up on them.

----------


## hellouser

> How will this work? Will Follica be some kind of injectable or rather just a topical? If its applied per injection, will it be mandatory to repeat the treatment every year or so?


 Basically:

1) Strip (wound) layer of skin on scalp
2) Slow down healing
3) Apply topicals
4) Get laid with hair

I actually had an appointment this morning with my dentist. A checkup actually in regards to the gum grafting I had done a couple months ago. He mentioned he'll need to smoothen out the excess gum tissue in a couple months with a laser. This is where it gets interesting;

Basically the laser is like a pen and vaporizes the tissue. I asked him if it could be used on skin, suppose for a tattoo removal (didn't want to mention hair loss). He said the laser pen vaporizes tissue sometimes potentially up to 3mm deep. I couldn't understand him when he said the name of the laser, but this is a good start for those of us (hopefully all of us) interested in replicating Follica's wounding method.

I need to get my hands on this laser!

----------


## hellouser

Two lasers I found:

http://www.biolase.com/products/ezlase/features.html
http://www.biolase.com/products/ilase/features.html

Hmmmm!

----------


## Kalio

> Basically:
> 
> 1) Strip (wound) layer of skin on scalp
> 2) Slow down healing
> 3) Apply topicals
> 4) Get laid with hair


 Very interesting, how often do you reckon one should repeat these steps in order to get a full head of hair?

Also, how do you slow down healing? Is that by using one of those dermarollers on the same wound before it is fully healed?

----------


## UK_

> Basically:
> 
> 1) Strip (wound) layer of skin on scalp
> 2) Slow down healing
> 3) Apply topicals
> 4) Get laid with hair
> 
> I actually had an appointment this morning with my dentist. A checkup actually in regards to the gum grafting I had done a couple months ago. He mentioned he'll need to smoothen out the excess gum tissue in a couple months with a laser. This is where it gets interesting;
> 
> ...


 Hahahaha Hellouser man I love how you always wanna figure this shit out on your own - that's what we need, not sitting on our hands waiting for something to fall into our laps.

----------


## Pentarou

> Two lasers I found:
> 
> http://www.biolase.com/products/ezlase/features.html
> http://www.biolase.com/products/ilase/features.html
> 
> Hmmmm!


 This is definitely an avenue of research worth investigating IMO.

----------


## UK_

If Nigam is actually doubling then I will go for a procedure 100&#37; and its looking more promising by the day.

Maybe we could ask Nigam to look into the Follica method to see if he is able to understand/investigate what they're doing to grow hair.

----------


## hellouser

> Very interesting, how often do you reckon one should repeat these steps in order to get a full head of hair?


 Getting laid wont regrow hair unfortunately, but that in itself is better than hair. I think the steps may need to be repeated until you're happy with the results. However, thats pure speculation as I'm unsure how the topicals applied will affect hair growth (how much of them used will probably play a role)




> Also, how do you slow down healing? Is that by using one of those dermarollers on the same wound before it is fully healed?


 Not completely sure, as I don't remember, but it may Lithium Gluconate that slows down the healing, but it needs to be a substantial wound too. I've got a feeling that we'll probably be left with scabs after on our scalp. Again, pure speculation.

----------


## Pentarou

> Spencer and Joe From Staten Island both stated they are in human clinical trials and both said that Follica succesfully grew hair through NEOGENESIS.
> 
> Puretech Ventures which is funding Follica, clearly states on their website they are in Human Clinical Trials:
> 
> http://www.puretechventures.com/pipeline.php
> 
> From what I've read/heard, Follica doesn't need a complete 3 phase trials as the substances theyre using to generate new follicles are 'known substances' and apparently they only need approval for the wounding device (which, what we know from the released patents is a laser). If anyone has more concrete info, please correct me on any of the points i've made, im not 100% sure, theres too much info coming through the pipes lately with all the hair loss solutions (which, is a good thing, finally)


 Following the recent Garza interview, I really think that one of us really needs to get in contact with PureTech to find out if Follica actually are undergoing trials (a simple yes or no answer would suffice I guess).

----------


## garethbale

> Following the recent Garza interview, I really think that one of us really needs to get in contact with PureTech to find out if Follica actually are undergoing trials (a simple yes or no answer would suffice I guess).


 Yeah I was thinking that earlier.

Will email them this weekend. They will probably disclose nothing but I will ask anyway

----------


## Artha

There a new patent that just been publish 2 days ago!

http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/WO2013142295
http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/e...PCTDescription

----------


## walrus

> There a new patent that just been publish 2 days ago!
> 
> http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/WO2013142295
> http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/e...PCTDescription


 Nice find! Includes some info on DP-2 antagonist clinical trials that could be used.

----------


## Thinning87

Notice the very last paragraph  :Smile:

----------


## Artha

> Notice the very last paragraph


 


> [00123] It will be appreciated by those skilled in the art that changes could be made to the embodiments described above without departing from the broad inventive concept thereof. It is understood, therefore, that this invention is not limited to the particular embodiments disclosed, but it is intended to cover modifications that are within the spirit and scope of the invention, as defined by the appended claims.


 That?

A little more about Dr. Cotsarelis 

_Dr. Cotsarelis is a consultant for Proctor and Gamble, Stiefel/GSK and Follica, has stock options from Follica and received 
a sponsored research agreement from L’Oreal._

----------


## NeedHairASAP

thats a boilerplate paragraph put into all patents... I'm no seeing any significants from it....

----------


## Thinning87

I think what that means is "there's more to it and we're not disclosing it but we are patenting for the foundation and what comes next is covered by the patent"

The fact that Cots has some sort of connection to large pharma is good but might not be related to his work at follica as all the leading research institutes are constantly interacting with big pharma to some degree and in the context of multiple projects.

----------


## Artha

Exactly and seeing Dr.Cost having share in his company show that he believe in it and probably will made alot of money from it (if it work for real). Money well deserve in my opinion! If he release this treatment I will probably donate him money every years of my life still just to thanks him!

----------


## baldybald

i do not believe follica, it is not the first time they say we found the cure and there is no pictures to proof anything too. am not excited about this. sorry

----------


## UK_

Pretty much  :Frown:

----------


## greatjob!

If I was a patent attorney I would kill myself having to read and write crap like that all day.

----------


## reckless

My only hope is that the reason they haven't released any pictures is because the results are so amazing that it would scare their competitors.

I'm probably wrong though!

----------


## UK_

> My only hope is that the reason they haven't released any pictures is because the results are so amazing that it would scare their competitors.
> 
> I'm probably wrong though!


 Some posts on this forum just bewilder me.

----------


## Thinning87

> Some posts on this forum just bewilder me.


 Well it's not so insane to think that the reason they have not released detailed information on the outcome of their human trials might be the fact that they have seen some success.

Anyone who wants to commercialize a product like this needs to make sure they do not set up the wrong type of expectations people like us are making with our speculation. Especially if the product is still in development.

We will just have to wait and see.

----------


## UK_

> Well it's not so insane to think that the reason they have not released detailed information on the outcome of their human trials might be the fact that they have seen some success.
> 
> Anyone who wants to commercialize a product like this needs to make sure they do not set up the wrong type of expectations people like us are making with our speculation. Especially if the product is still in development.
> 
> We will just have to wait and see.


 Reckless was talking about competitors not consumers.  Also, there's little difference in 'expectations' between releasing information entitled 'seeing success in human clinical trials' pictures or no pictures.

----------


## hellouser

I don't care for the photos. I just want to know if the hairs that Follica created are terminal. If they are, then there's really nothing left to be done for men with MPB. Simply repeat the process from Follica until the desired results are met. The hairs aren't rejuvinated, they're brand new. Unlike Histogen which may or may not work better with repeat sessions, it basically relies on existing follicles. The same as Replicel. Follica's method is MUCH more exciting... and the methodology could easily be replicated by us, there's no need for any stem cell crap, just get the right timing, wounding and substances injected and VOILA. Hair loss solved.

----------


## gainspotter

> I don't care for the photos. I just want to know if the hairs that Follica created are terminal. If they are, then there's really nothing left to be done for men with MPB. Simply repeat the process from Follica until the desired results are met. The hairs aren't rejuvinated, they're brand new. Unlike Histogen which may or may not work better with repeat sessions, it basically relies on existing follicles. The same as Replicel. Follica's method is MUCH more exciting... and the methodology could easily be replicated by us, there's no need for any stem cell crap, just get the right timing, wounding and substances injected and VOILA. Hair loss solved.


 Ahh bliss. It sounds like the wounding is the way, just wish they would hurry up. My hair can't wait.

----------


## clarence

> Ahh bliss. It sounds like the wounding is the way, just wish they would hurry up. My hair can't wait.


 It will have to wait, for a looooong time, except if this guy is lying when he says




> Follica has released all of it's scientific staff. The remaining people involved are either part of the advisory board (which is distinct from the company, and don't play a role in day to day operations of the company), part of the venture capital firm (again no role in day to day), or a CEO or VP. No one reamins to do any research. There is nobody to oversee clinical trials, and handle all the day to day stuff involved with that. So, how is it that anything would be happening? who would do the work? I don't think it looks good at all.

----------


## Artha

I don't know who is Mr.Z but this is coming from no where, I won't believe that!

----------


## Dazza

> It will have to wait, for a looooong time, except if this guy is lying when he says


 If that Quote was true, it would be over the internet by now. Doing a internet search brought up nothing at all on the subject, just his two posts. 

Unless Mr Z would like to post his source we can rule this out as just typical forum bullshit.

----------


## moore

To tell you the truth I'd prefer to rescue existing follicles first, then possibly increase density as needed. This also because:

- If a new follicle is created where or near an existing one was present (albeit miniaturized) I would not be so sure that the new hair shaft can grow correctly

- Newly generated follicles of course should have the same "genetic properties" of existing ones depending on the site (texture, growth cycles duration, etc). And these values I guess are different on each person, even on the same site. So a peek at existing follicles could be beneficial in any case.
Maybe Replice + Follica then.

As I wrote once, we should be able to have as much hair as we want, where we want it.

----------


## clarence

> If that Quote was true, it would be over the internet by now. Doing a internet search brought up nothing at all on the subject, just his two posts. 
> 
> Unless Mr Z would like to post his source we can rule this out as just typical forum bullshit.


 Three posts, now.




> Well, let me preface this post with the following: I have no inside info on this, so, nobody should be getting worked up over my post. However...
> 
> Over the years i was able to locate a lot of the scientists working at Follica on linkedin. I dug quite a bit and found numerous scientists associated with Follica. Being that they are a small company, and never had a very large staff (i think i recall reading staff count was under 20), i feel i was able to find a decent percentage of scientists who've worked for them. As of now, not one of the scientists that i tracked work for Follica any longer. Furthermore, if you try to find someone who has Follica as the current employer (at the staff level), you come up empty handed. There are none that i can find, which wasn't the case just a short while ago.
> 
> Interestingly, most of the employees left within the same 1 - 1.5 year window of time. This includes the VP of pharma development and the VP of Research - which to me, is the biggest "tell" that nothing research-wise is happening with them now; other than shoring up their intellectual property with patent filings. That they haven't filled these vacancies in the upper level postions is not encouraging. Companies will usually not operate a research department without a head guy in place i.e. VP. 
> 
> They were supposed to have been engaged in multiple avenues of research outside of MPB. I know for a fact they were looking at hair removal at some point in the past. What happened to that and How does that go on if you don't have a VP of Research or pharma development? The simple answer is, that it doesn't go on, it stops.
> 
> I'm not saying they're dead as a company. I just think that, at the moment, nothing is happening. And it could be due to funding, could roadblock in their research, or maybe their tech works great and now they shopping it around to a bigger player? I don't know. 
> ...

----------


## greatjob!

> Three posts, now.


 So all of his speculation is based around the idea that everyone who works at follica must be on linkedin or other social networking and since he can't find any one on those sites then no one works at follica any more? People need to stop trying to be amateur private investigators.

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

--------lol-----------

----------


## Dazza

> Three posts, now.


 So typical forum made up bullshit it is then! 

Fantastic.

----------


## hellouser

> So all of his speculation is based around the idea that everyone who works at follica must be on linkedin or other social networking and since he can't find any one on those sites then no one works at follica any more? People need to stop trying to be amateur private investigators.


 This is true. Certain employers may ask you to keep employees away from being in the public, a friend of mine was restricted from have a facebook account online (government job, although thats understandable). However, we all know that employment laws in both USA and Canada are a joke and they favor the employer, not the employee. So if they suggest taking off Follica related info, its pretty much guaranteed they'll get their request because here, you don't really need a solid reason to fire someone and employees are too effing scared of having backbone or losing their job.

This Mr. Z guy is useless, pay no attention to the troll nor to Garza's interview, both of their opinions are completely USELESS since Puretech Ventures confirms on their own site where Follica stands in clinical human trials: HALF WAY. So, Phase II.

End of discussion.

----------


## sdsurfin

After reading some of what has been posted on these forums, I wrote an email to follica and to the university of pennsylvania.  They confirmed that there are currently no trials underway related to Dr. Costarellis research.  Whatever it says on that puretech site is clearly related to past research that they did, or simply not up to date on the reality of the situation. I mean for real, that graph is jenky as shit anyway, I feel you hellouser, but I don't think these follica people are even within a decade of putting anything out.  I very highly doubt that there will be a drug to cure baldness, maybe in the next 50 years they will figure out enough to cure it via gene therapy or cloning hairs and then transplanting (the tsuji people are I think probably the most advanced in this respect) , but let's be serious, I am a NW2 with some thinning in the crown, as all my uncles all were at 31 yrs old, but they were all bald as shit by the time they were in their mid forties.  

Most of you guys on here seem to be balder than I am, so my advice is to stop wasting time on these forums, accept your genetics, and make something useful of your lives.  My uncles are all bald and successful and married and happy.  Hair loss is the stupidest shit ever and totally sucks, but we are so completely far away science wise to curing genetically driven conditions that trying to dermaroll your head etc etc is pretty ridiculous. It's gonna fall out soon anyway.  Propecia is poison for your body, i took it for a week and my balls hurt like a mother****er, plus headaches and general lack of clarity on all days that i've taken it.  if you can take that shit without sides go for it, it works, but i have a feeling most people just dont realize how it affects the brain until they stop, and someday will pay the price for ****ing with your enzymes.  

Hair transplants are great for those with a receding hairline, you guys are blessed, or for those just wanting to have a tuft of wisp on their domes, but for those with full baldness in their genes it's really a pretty crap option. better to just shave it off or rock the balding, most women over 40 dont give a shit anyway, and plenty of younger ladies like shaved heads.  If you're ugly, well **** it, most people are, better to get rich and useful than waste your time on here.  that's my two cents.  And trust me, I want a cure as much as anyone else, I'm just saying this cause whoever is out there banking on clowns like follica and histogen to save their hair is probably wasting their energy.  that kind of science has many decades to go.

----------


## eqvist

> Most of you guys on here seem to be balder than I am, so my advice is to stop wasting time on these forums, accept your genetics, and make something useful of your lives.  My uncles are all bald and successful and married and happy.  Hair loss is the stupidest shit ever and totally sucks, but we are so completely far away science wise to curing genetically driven conditions that trying to dermaroll your head etc etc is pretty ridiculous. It's gonna fall out soon anyway.  Propecia is poison for your body, i took it for a week and my balls hurt like a mother****er, plus headaches and general lack of clarity on all days that i've taken it.  if you can take that shit without sides go for it, it works, but i have a feeling most people just dont realize how it affects the brain until they stop, and someday will pay the price for ****ing with your enzymes.  
> 
> Hair transplants are great for those with a receding hairline, you guys are blessed, or for those just wanting to have a tuft of wisp on their domes, but for those with full baldness in their genes it's really a pretty crap option. better to just shave it off or rock the balding, most women over 40 dont give a shit anyway, and plenty of younger ladies like shaved heads.  If you're ugly, well **** it, most people are, better to get rich and useful than waste your time on here.  that's my two cents.  And trust me, I want a cure as much as anyone else, I'm just saying this cause whoever is out there banking on clowns like follica and histogen to save their hair is probably wasting their energy.  that kind of science has many decades to go.


 So true, it´s starting to get extremely clear that good treatments are not in our future. We do not even know the real reason and that sickies me the most!

----------


## Thinning87

> After reading some of what has been posted on these forums, I wrote an email to follica and to the university of pennsylvania.  They confirmed that there are currently no trials underway related to Dr. Costarellis research.  Whatever it says on that puretech site is clearly related to past research that they did, or simply not up to date on the reality of the situation. I mean for real, that graph is jenky as shit anyway, I feel you hellouser, but I don't think these follica people are even within a decade of putting anything out.  I very highly doubt that there will be a drug to cure baldness, maybe in the next 50 years they will figure out enough to cure it via gene therapy or cloning hairs and then transplanting (the tsuji people are I think probably the most advanced in this respect) , but let's be serious, I am a NW2 with some thinning in the crown, as all my uncles all were at 31 yrs old, but they were all bald as shit by the time they were in their mid forties.  
> 
> Most of you guys on here seem to be balder than I am, so my advice is to stop wasting time on these forums, accept your genetics, and make something useful of your lives.  My uncles are all bald and successful and married and happy.  Hair loss is the stupidest shit ever and totally sucks, but we are so completely far away science wise to curing genetically driven conditions that trying to dermaroll your head etc etc is pretty ridiculous. It's gonna fall out soon anyway.  Propecia is poison for your body, i took it for a week and my balls hurt like a mother****er, plus headaches and general lack of clarity on all days that i've taken it.  if you can take that shit without sides go for it, it works, but i have a feeling most people just dont realize how it affects the brain until they stop, and someday will pay the price for ****ing with your enzymes.  
> 
> Hair transplants are great for those with a receding hairline, you guys are blessed, or for those just wanting to have a tuft of wisp on their domes, but for those with full baldness in their genes it's really a pretty crap option. better to just shave it off or rock the balding, most women over 40 dont give a shit anyway, and plenty of younger ladies like shaved heads.  If you're ugly, well **** it, most people are, better to get rich and useful than waste your time on here.  that's my two cents.  And trust me, I want a cure as much as anyone else, I'm just saying this cause whoever is out there banking on clowns like follica and histogen to save their hair is probably wasting their energy.  that kind of science has many decades to go.


 Show us the email

----------


## Pentarou

> After reading some of what has been posted on these forums, I wrote an email to follica and to the university of pennsylvania.  They confirmed that there are currently no trials underway related to Dr. Costarellis research.  Whatever it says on that puretech site is clearly related to past research that they did, or simply not up to date on the reality of the situation. I mean for real, that graph is jenky as shit anyway, I feel you hellouser, but I don't think these follica people are even within a decade of putting anything out.  I very highly doubt that there will be a drug to cure baldness, maybe in the next 50 years they will figure out enough to cure it via gene therapy or cloning hairs and then transplanting (the tsuji people are I think probably the most advanced in this respect) , but let's be serious, I am a NW2 with some thinning in the crown, as all my uncles all were at 31 yrs old, but they were all bald as shit by the time they were in their mid forties.  
> 
> Most of you guys on here seem to be balder than I am, so my advice is to stop wasting time on these forums, accept your genetics, and make something useful of your lives.  My uncles are all bald and successful and married and happy.  Hair loss is the stupidest shit ever and totally sucks, but we are so completely far away science wise to curing genetically driven conditions that trying to dermaroll your head etc etc is pretty ridiculous. It's gonna fall out soon anyway.  Propecia is poison for your body, i took it for a week and my balls hurt like a mother****er, plus headaches and general lack of clarity on all days that i've taken it.  if you can take that shit without sides go for it, it works, but i have a feeling most people just dont realize how it affects the brain until they stop, and someday will pay the price for ****ing with your enzymes.  
> 
> Hair transplants are great for those with a receding hairline, you guys are blessed, or for those just wanting to have a tuft of wisp on their domes, but for those with full baldness in their genes it's really a pretty crap option. better to just shave it off or rock the balding, most women over 40 dont give a shit anyway, and plenty of younger ladies like shaved heads.  If you're ugly, well **** it, most people are, better to get rich and useful than waste your time on here.  that's my two cents.  And trust me, I want a cure as much as anyone else, I'm just saying this cause whoever is out there banking on clowns like follica and histogen to save their hair is probably wasting their energy.  that kind of science has many decades to go.


 That's just an unecessarily longwinded variant on the 'shave your head, get a tan, do weightlifting' type post we see all the time on hair loss forums.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> That's just an unecessarily longwinded variant on the 'shave your head, get a tan, do weightlifting' type post we see all the time on hair loss forums.


 Histogen is our best bet.

They released a skin product - regenica. What's stopping them from doing it with hair?

----------


## Thinning87

> Histogen is our best bet.
> 
> They released a skin product - regenica. What's stopping them from doing it with hair?


 Font change tue subject there is a Histogen thread

----------


## UK_

Histogen is our _only_ bet... everything has pretty much gone to shit.

Hopes were so high a couple of years ago for a 2015 release and now in the space of a year everything has literally fallen into pieces.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Histogen is our _only_ bet... everything has pretty much gone to shit.
> 
> Hopes were so high a couple of years ago for a 2015 release and now in the space of a year everything has literally fallen into pieces.


 I agree tbh

Ive always said it.

----------


## UK_

Meanwhile, in the Nigam camp...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LLkEG8ljmk

----------


## sdsurfin

Thank you for your interest in our research. If you have hair loss, we recommend seeing a dermatologist, as there are many causes of hair loss and some treatments are currently available.

If you are in the Philadelphia area and wish assistance with scheduling an appointment, please feel free to call the Penn Health Referral Service at 1-800-789-PENN (7366).  A Customer Service Representative or Registered Nurse will be happy to assist you from Monday through Friday from 8:30 AM to 5:00 PM Eastern Time. 

We are not performing any clinical trials at this time. The findings from Dr. George Cotsarelis study have not yet led to any clinical trials. Please refer to the National Institutes of Health clinical trial site clinicaltrials.gov for ongoing hair loss studies.


This research would not have been possible without public and private grants. If you would like support biomedical research directly, please consider supporting Penn's Dermatology research.

We wish you well. Please let us know if we may be of further assistance.

Sincerely,
Penn Medicine Web Team

----------


## sdsurfin

it has nothing to do with weights, tans, and shaving heads.

it has to do with building the important things in your life. positivity, success in business and friendships.  self acceptance. The really tough things that everyone has to build.  Whether you shave your head or not doesn't matter, i live in brooklyn and I see way more dudes with receded hairlines and bald spots than those without. and most of them are happy, have relationships and lives to live. very few of them look like vin diesel. I just saw facebook pics of my friend's friend, and the dude just married an extremely beautiful girl, and his hairloss is just about the same as prince williams'. Anyway, if you set your own value on who you can attract, then you also need to work on other things to value.  There are a lot of completely retarded and useless attractive people out there.  Use your baldness to make you tougher. I'm pretty sure kelly slater is the best surfer ever because he is bald. it made him want success more, and in return he got to bang gisele bundchen.  Pretty sure she would have never banged him if he had tons of hair and was just a normal great lookin dude from florida.  

  I choose to stay fit, and if my balding gets bad soon, ill prob shave it all off, cause i think it looks better. it usually does. but thats really all beside the point.  the point is to find the best road to happiness, and waiting for these treatments that clearly are not panning out anytime in the next two decades doesn't seem to be a good road. Hair transplants are pretty advanced, and look ok on the over 50 set, when most have thin hair anyway, but at that age i hope i won't care at all. If I do, it will probably mean i failed at other aspects of my life.

----------


## Artha

I do not agree with you UK, I don't think the Nigam doubling technique will have a superior result of follica

----------


## Pentarou

What we really need is clarification from Follica and/or UPenn directly, we can't keep going on like this. I'm as aware as anyone that they are most likely years from release and even that's not guaranteed, but the uncertainty is the bitch. Everything is completely contradictory.

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## crafter

so this video is nearly 3 years old and Cotsarellis says a treatment could be available in a few years if all goes well, so that would mean 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaLaMBHIdBs

I've emailed Follica but never got a reply.   I personally believe they are only after publicity so they can fund their pensions; not because they really believe they can release a treatment, i mean Cotsarellis must be nearing retirement age.  So, i think it's a scam.  Their clinical trials aren't even on the clinicaltrials.gov website.

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## UK_

> I do not agree with you UK, I don't think the Nigam doubling technique will have a superior result of follica


 Your name is not Dr Mwamba and you are not an ISHRS hair loss surgeon, I would rather listen to him than you thank you very much.

Why would Dr Nigam invite Dr Mwamba over to his clinic if Dr Nigam is trying to mislead people? 

Dr Nigam does the splitting in vitro - he is on to something.

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## UK_

> What we really need is clarification from Follica and/or UPenn directly, we can't keep going on like this. I'm as aware as anyone that they are most likely years from release and even that's not guaranteed, but the uncertainty is the bitch. Everything is completely contradictory.


 Forget them, you will be waiting until 2050 for Follica... we need to focus on Dr Nigam and Dr Mwamba right now... imagine how scared Follica will be when Dr Mwamba (an ISHRS surgeon) starts offering Nigams doubling at his clinic?   Follica will deserve what they get for keeping us waiting all this time!!!

If Dr Mwamba endorses what Nigam is doing then we can throw DUT and FIN in the garbage... just use toppik to conceal hair loss until we get doubling procedure which Dr Mwamba states has the potential to take NW6/7 back to NW2.

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## crafter

> Forget them, you will be waiting until 2050 for Follica... we need to focus on Dr Nigam and Dr Mwamba right now... imagine how scared Follica will be when Dr Mwamba (an ISHRS surgeon) starts offering Nigams doubling at his clinic?   Follica will deserve what they get for keeping us waiting all this time!!!
> 
> If Dr Mwamba endorses what Nigam is doing then we can throw DUT and FIN in the garbage... just use toppik to conceal hair loss until we get doubling procedure which Dr Mwamba states has the potential to take NW6/7 back to NW2.


 you really believe Dr Nigam? have you seen the questionable photos on his site?

I'll believe it when i see it.

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## hellouser

> What we really need is clarification from Follica and/or UPenn directly, we can't keep going on like this. I'm as aware as anyone that they are most likely years from release and even that's not guaranteed, but the uncertainty is the bitch. Everything is completely contradictory.


 Youre not going to get clarification from anyone other than the typical corporate answer. Even if you got clarification, it would be so vague that it would raise more questions than answers. Historically speaking, its almost always been the case.

Its best to take everything they say with a grain of salt. A very fine grain of salt.

But what we DO know is that Follica is midway in human clinical trials. Thats not really up for debate. So all the speculative talk isn't helping. Like I've said in other threads, we need to replicate their method and do wounding/healing/follicle neogenesis ON OUR OWN.

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## Pentarou

Hell, I *completely* agree with you on that.

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## locke999

> Thank you for your interest in our research. If you have hair loss, we recommend seeing a dermatologist, as there are many causes of hair loss and some treatments are currently available.
> 
> If you are in the Philadelphia area and wish assistance with scheduling an appointment, please feel free to call the Penn Health Referral Service at 1-800-789-PENN (7366).  A Customer Service Representative or Registered Nurse will be happy to assist you from Monday through Friday from 8:30 AM to 5:00 PM Eastern Time. 
> 
> We are not performing any clinical trials at this time. The findings from Dr. George Cotsarelis study have not yet led to any clinical trials. Please refer to the National Institutes of Health clinical trial site clinicaltrials.gov for ongoing hair loss studies.
> 
> 
> This research would not have been possible without public and private grants. If you would like support biomedical research directly, please consider supporting Penn's Dermatology research.
> 
> ...


 This is horrible. The only team that I had hope in aren't even in trials. I guess its really time to start accepting it. I am 23 and was hoping in at least 5-6 years there would be something so I can at least enjoy the little youth that I had left.

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## HairBane

> This is horrible. The only team that I had hope in aren't even in trials. I guess its really time to start accepting it. I am 23 and was hoping in at least 5-6 years there would be something so I can at least enjoy the little youth that I had left.


 They're in the middle of human trials for SOMETHING. They're just in between phases.

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## crafter

> Thank you for your interest in our research. If you have hair loss, we recommend seeing a dermatologist, as there are many causes of hair loss and some treatments are currently available.
> 
> If you are in the Philadelphia area and wish assistance with scheduling an appointment, please feel free to call the Penn Health Referral Service at 1-800-789-PENN (7366).  A Customer Service Representative or Registered Nurse will be happy to assist you from Monday through Friday from 8:30 AM to 5:00 PM Eastern Time. 
> 
> We are not performing any clinical trials at this time. The findings from Dr. George Cotsarelis study have not yet led to any clinical trials. Please refer to the National Institutes of Health clinical trial site clinicaltrials.gov for ongoing hair loss studies.
> 
> 
> This research would not have been possible without public and private grants. If you would like support biomedical research directly, please consider supporting Penn's Dermatology research.
> 
> ...


 when did you recieve this?  why are the news reporting they are doing phase 2 trials?

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## crafter

> They're in the middle of human trials for SOMETHING. They're just in between phases.


 but it says they're NOT doing any trials?

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## garethbale

> This is horrible. The only team that I had hope in aren't even in trials. I guess its really time to start accepting it. I am 23 and was hoping in at least 5-6 years there would be something so I can at least enjoy the little youth that I had left.


 I'm confused

Are they part of Follica?

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## crafter

> I'm confused
> 
> Are they part of Follica?


 yes - follica is Cots company

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## garethbale

> yes - follica is Cots company


 but how is that connected to the Penn Medicine Web Team...

is that Cots's Med School or something?

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## hellouser

> This is horrible. The only team that I had hope in aren't even in trials. I guess its really time to start accepting it. I am 23 and was hoping in at least 5-6 years there would be something so I can at least enjoy the little youth that I had left.


 The email clearly states its from 'Penn Medicine Web Team'

Therefor and obviously, its not from Follica, has nothing to do with Follica and should have no effect on our optimism or pessimism for Follica.

Case closed. Too many of you guys are looking for the negatives... why????

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## locke999

Because I rather be realistic than placing hope on nothing temporarily and then having a  bigger fall down the line. Penn does have something to do with it because that is where Cotsarelis, one of the leading researcher for Follica does his research.

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## hellouser

> Because I rather be realistic than placing hope on nothing temporarily and then having a  bigger fall down the line. Penn does have something to do with it because that is where Cotsarelis, one of the leading researcher for Follica does his research.


 Yeah... but for PR they're completely irrelevant. If you want answers about Follica, why would you contact UPenn? Contact Follica to see where they are. But hey, apparently the companys financial backing clearly stating theyre midway in all trials is a lie...

Why are you guys looking for negatives? Would all of you still be looking for negativity if Cotsarelis himself said 'we're halfway in human trials until we've got a commercially available product' ???

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## locke999

I just think that if Cotsarelis is representing Penn, and he is doing research there, then they would at least know a little about what is going on and what he is doing. Plus, why would they give contradictory information such as "the team are not in any trials at all", they could of just said they don't know. 

That Puretech website is not specific enough, we don't know what procedure that pipeline is for, and when was it last updated. The trials could of been a complete fail so they are back to square one and the site hasn't been updated.

I try to be as positive as I can but when things are skeptical, then I become a skeptic.

edit-

btw Hellouser, any update on how CB / RU combo is working for you. Have you progressed / digressed in the last few months?

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## hiilikeyourbeard

maybe they're jerking us around cause they know people are trying to replicate their technique

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## crafter

> The email clearly states its from 'Penn Medicine Web Team'
> 
> Therefor and obviously, its not from Follica, has nothing to do with Follica and should have no effect on our optimism or pessimism for Follica.
> 
> Case closed. Too many of you guys are looking for the negatives... why????


 FOLLICA is Cots company - the email states none of his research is undergoing trials.

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## UK_

> This is horrible. The only team that I had hope in aren't even in trials. I guess its really time to start accepting it. I am 23 and *was hoping in at least 5-6 years there would be something so I can at least enjoy the little youth that I had left.*


 Hey guess what?  That's exactly what WE were all thinking 5 years ago  :Big Grin:

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## UK_

Maybe someone should complain then about the misleading over-hyped articles they released - why hype something up in the media only for people who dig deeper to be told the cold hard truth.

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## Pentarou

> maybe they're jerking us around cause they know people are trying to replicate their technique


 I doubt strongly that they know or care what we get up to on hair loss forums.

----------


## crafter

> Maybe someone should complain then about the misleading over-hyped articles they released - why hype something up in the media only for people who dig deeper to be told the cold hard truth.


 because it gets them investors, which give them money, which keeps them a job for longer.

----------


## reckless

Just stay on fin if your body can handle it.

Don't count on any of these companies to release anything that grows hair out of nothing, via injections.

If you can't handle fin or are too far gone then just shave your head.

It's the only way you can move on with your life.

I personally wish I got on fin when I was 21 but I was unaware of its existence and found out too late.

----------


## Thinning87

I honestly can't believe the rumors that appeared online in the last couple games. 

Follica just filed two new patents a week ago. That has to signify they are working. And the xconomy article... Why would Olle go on the record and say something like that if they were closing down? 

I think from what we know and what has been rumored here they have done preclinical trials with fgf9 and they are waiting so start other trials with the new protocol.

----------


## UK_

I bloody hope so.

----------


## doinmyheadin

Maybe Spencer needs to get to the bottom of this. Interview time.

----------


## Thinning87

> I bloody hope so.


 It's honestly the only thing that makes sense to me. The article did state that human trials with fgf9 did not start yet, and that is consistent with what the email published here a couple days ago stated (the one from upenn).

----------


## locke999

If Follica really hasn't even started phase 1 yet then it will take about 10 years in order for them to get a product out.

What's the point of waiting for them when that is the timeline we are projecting for Tsuji's Lab to launch what they having going on. 

I was really hoping that we could rely on Histogen in 2-3 years, then jump on Follica in 4-5 years.

----------


## Thinning87

> If Follica really hasn't even started phase 1 yet then it will take about 10 years in order for them to get a product out.
> 
> What's the point of waiting for them when that is the timeline we are projecting for Tsuji's Lab to launch what they having going on. 
> 
> I was really hoping that we could rely on Histogen in 2-3 years, then jump on Follica in 4-5 years.


 Follica uses previously approved compounds and a wounding protocol. Their clinical trials don't require the 3 FDA phases. 

Pay attention.

----------


## locke999

> Follica uses previously approved compounds and a wounding protocol. Their clinical trials don't require the 3 FDA phases. 
> 
> Pay attention.


 I hope you are right but I thought that Fgf9 was a compound they only just discovered. They would have to go through 3 phase for it, and they haven't even started phase 1 if the email is real.

----------


## HairBane

> I hope you are right but I thought that Fgf9 was a compound they only just discovered. They would have to go through 3 phase for it, and they haven't even started phase 1 if the email is real.


 The FGF9 is a totally separate thing. I've heard they demonstrate follicular neogenesis in humans without using FGF9, so that will be what they're working on now.

----------


## deuce

> Maybe Spencer needs to get to the bottom of this. Interview time.


 Man I love Spencer, but it seems like he focuses on stupid issues lately.  Like eye transplant surgery, c'mon man really?  Get Ken Washenik on the phone to answer questions about what happened to Aderans.  ALl he does is tell Spencer that we had substatial regrowth, and we decided to shut it down.  Could not be man enough to come on air to tell us himself.  I love Spencer, but it seems to me like he focuses on current treatments and not what we could do to help those that cannot take these medications.  Also when does anyone think follica will make another announcement?  We never hear anything from them, but maybe once every two years.

----------


## Thinning87

It will be a while before we hear from them. And yeah I agree about spencer talking about things no one cares about, but at the same time things move very slow in this industry so it's not like there's a whole lot more to talk about. 

The general speculation in the forums is that follica will have to restart trials under the new protocol and although it might take some time, they will probably be able to do things faster as they will be using previously approved substances. 

Also, they might need a new round of financing to keep going, which would explain the need for talking to the public last June as it's clear that they do not like to give out much information in general. 

The fact that they are patenting things leads me to believe they are not closing down. 

Anyways, expect another two years to go by without any news unless we read they will get some additional funding. As someone said in one of the forums, the are not likely to release any results or pictures so funding news is pretty much all we can hope to find out.

----------


## Javert

> *Man I love Spencer, but it seems like he focuses on stupid issues lately.*  Like eye transplant surgery, c'mon man really?  Get Ken Washenik on the phone to answer questions about what happened to Aderans.  ALl he does is tell Spencer that we had substatial regrowth, and we decided to shut it down.  Could not be man enough to come on air to tell us himself.  I love Spencer, but it seems to me like he focuses on current treatments and not what we could do to help those that cannot take these medications.  Also when does anyone think follica will make another announcement?  We never hear anything from them, but maybe once every two years.


 Seriously. If I hear another story about how great Propecia is I'm going to vomit. It's known to cause seemingly incurable sexual side effects in countless men so please stop shoving it down our throats. It worked for you.. great, we get it. Talk about something else.

----------


## UK_

> Seriously. If I hear another story about how great Propecia is I'm going to vomit. It's known to cause seemingly incurable sexual side effects in countless men so please stop shoving it down our throats. It worked for you.. great, we get it. Talk about something else.


 1+

----------


## Thinning87

> Seriously. If I hear another story about how great Propecia is I'm going to vomit. It's known to cause seemingly incurable sexual side effects in countless men so please stop shoving it down our throats. It worked for you.. great, we get it. Talk about something else.


 +1

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## Pentarou

I can't stand the praise for Propecia either. If you can tolerate it, it won't do anything for regrowth. If you're happy being NW3 or really thinned out it's fine, if you care about not looking balding it's pathetic.

----------


## JJJJrS

> Seriously. If I hear another story about how great Propecia is I'm going to vomit. It's known to cause seemingly incurable sexual side effects in countless men so please stop shoving it down our throats. It worked for you.. great, we get it. Talk about something else.


 Agreed. Everybody is aware of the persistent, long-term side-effects of finasteride. It's not necessary going to happen to every person who takes fin but it's definitely real and a possibility for some.

Prominent people in the industry like Spencer Kobren should be a lot more careful recommending a drug with that type of profile, regardless of their personal experience on it. The last thing a young person dealing with hairloss needs is persistent sexual side-effects. Anecdotally, from my years and years following the forums, the percentage of people who get side-effects from fin are much higher than what Merck lets on.

But enough about fin  :Wink: , this is a thread about Follica.

----------


## hiilikeyourbeard

> Agreed. Everybody is aware of the persistent, long-term side-effects of finasteride. It's not necessary going to happen to every person who takes fin but it's definitely real and a possibility for some.
> 
> Prominent people in the industry like Spencer Kobren should be a lot more careful recommending a drug with that type of profile, regardless of their personal experience on it. The last thing a young person dealing with hairloss needs is persistent sexual side-effects. Anecdotally, from my years and years following the forums, the percentage of people who get side-effects from fin are much higher than what Merck lets on.
> 
> But enough about fin , this is a thread about Follica.


 
the brain fog associated with that drug I worse than any limp @&$$. poison!


I'm getting annoyed by follicas elusiveness though. wish they'd at least let us know what's going on. some people are probably considering drugs like fin because we never get any kind of update on these pipeline cures

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Seriously. If I hear another story about how great Propecia is I'm going to vomit. It's known to cause seemingly incurable sexual side effects in countless men so please stop shoving it down our throats. It worked for you.. great, we get it. Talk about something else.


 You know if Spencer or Spex have sides from propecia, I doubt they will admit it publicly as they are in the limelight.

----------


## UK_

> +1


 +1

----------


## UK_

> the brain fog associated with that drug I worse than any limp @&$$. poison!
> 
> 
> I'm getting annoyed by follicas elusiveness though. wish they'd at least let us know what's going on. some people are probably considering drugs like fin because we never get any kind of update on these pipeline cures


 The worst side effect has to be the depression.  It's crippling.

A lot of people who suffer from PFS say the sexual sides are nothing compared to the mental sides, I tend to agree.

----------


## Ted

> The worst side effect has to be the depression.  It's crippling.


 I agree! And the worst thing is that I didn't make the connection to finasteride. I just thought I had a bad day, everyday..

It took me two years and a lot of physical activity to get back to my old self.

----------


## hiilikeyourbeard

> The worst side effect has to be the depression.  It's crippling.
> 
> A lot of people who suffer from PFS say the sexual sides are nothing compared to the mental sides, I tend to agree.


 oh hands down. 

so is anyone trying wounding and lithium yet? lol

----------


## joely

Can we not turn every thread into q propecia debate

----------


## brunobald

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articl...ing-Solution-/

----------


## UK_

> Can we not turn every thread into q propecia debate


  :Big Grin:

----------


## TheJive

> I can't stand the praise for Propecia either. If you can tolerate it, it won't do anything for regrowth. If you're happy being NW3 or really thinned out it's fine, if you care about not looking balding it's pathetic.


 It actually did provide significant regrowth for me.

----------


## Javert

> I hope this is the real deal!


 This.

----------


## pioonlaser

I also found two：

https://www.pioon.com/products/denta...ft-tissue.html
https://www.pioon.com/products/medic...cal-laser.html

Haha!

----------

