# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  Aderans

## yeahyeahyeah

http://www.aderansresearch.com/presentation/

They are looking to launch their product in 2014 and are nearing the completion of their phase 2 trials, which will be completed by next year. And to top it off, have huge investment behind them.

They have regrown terminal hair, why is nobody talking about them?

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## iHope

My english isn't good enough, so I didn't understand everything....so...this is about hair transplatation of newly created hairs? Like, hair has to grow somewhere in labaratory and then they'll transplate it into client's scalp, right?

I'm scared how much expencive this procedure might be  :Big Grin:

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## yeahyeahyeah

> My english isn't good enough, so I didn't understand everything....so...this is about hair transplatation of newly created hairs? Like, hair has to grow somewhere in labaratory and then they'll transplate it into client's scalp, right?
> 
> I'm scared how much expencive this procedure might be


 They take your hair from the donor area, multiply it in a lab, then put it back in your scalp.

Price should go down as more and more adopt this technology.

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## kaandereli

aderans isn't presenting themselves in media and forums frequently like replicel and histogen.for example , dr.ziering had been to this forum and had answered to the questions from everyone.and replicel has been very informative in their progress.
even though they might appear in the market first , it shouldnt be suprising that anyone heard of them

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## yeahyeahyeah

> aderans isn't presenting themselves in media and forums frequently like replicel and histogen.for example , dr.ziering had been to this forum and had answered to the questions from everyone.and replicel has been very informative in their progress.
> even though they might appear in the market first , it shouldnt be suprising that anyone heard of them


 They will be out first IMO.

They have had more then enough time, and as I wrote previously have the financial muscle power to make it happen. They recently for example got a 100m investment.

I am also sure they would want to beat histogen to being the first product in the market.

The future looks bright for hairloss sufferers. 

I think their technology works on NW6s too.

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## BoSox

How can they release so soon? I thought they had problems with hair angles and stuff?

Hopefully they worked out all the kinks, this is amazing. I feel more optomistic about the near future.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> How can they release so soon? I thought they had problems with hair angles and stuff?
> 
> Hopefully they worked out all the kinks, this is amazing. I feel more optomistic about the near future.


 Soon?

LOL.

You do know that Aderans have been working on their technology for like 10 years?

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## BoSox

Where does it say that they are releasing in 2014? From what I've heard, Aderans hasn't been able to achieve cosmetically appeasable results?

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Where does it say that they are releasing in 2014? From what I've heard, Aderans hasn't been able to achieve cosmetically appeasable results?


 Timeline is in the video, where did you read that?

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## yeahyeahyeah

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/3/prweb9338650.htm



> Clinical Study Enrollment
> 
> Aderans Research reached a major milestone this month with the completion of enrollment in one of its key Phase 2 clinical protocols.
> 
>  ShareThis   Email   PDF  
> 
> Were thrilled to reach this landmark in our research, said Vern Liebmann, Aderans Research Chief Operating Officer. We are looking forward to sharing the advances weve made in the field of hair regeneration.
> Atlanta, GA (PRWEB) March 28, 2012
> 
> ...

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## hellouser

> I think spending money on training, marketing, equipment etc is too risky now.  It would be foolish for any company to invest in these areas before they know when (or heaven forbid, if) a product will be released.  As soon as they know that they have something ready to hit the market the spending on those areas will commence.
> 
> I agree though, that they have spent millions on this.  I can't see them not wanting to reach the finishing line now.  I don't care if they are greedy or money motivated.  I am perfectly happy to part with my hard earned cash provided their treatment will work.


 They probably already know how well their treatment works and will have a better idea once Phase III trials are done now. I can't see them getting prepared at the last minute though. If theyre serious about the 2014 date, they'll need to get their organization ready now for a release. If they start doing all the necessary work next year, that 2014 date is not going to happen.... at least thats how I see it. Well, maybe late 2014.

I wonder if they'll have something like a 'pre-order' where we can sign up for the procedure in advance and have a secured spot.

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## 534623

> I agree though, that they have spent millions on this.  I can't see them not wanting to reach the finishing line now.  I don't care if they are greedy or money motivated.  I am perfectly happy to part with my hard earned cash provided their treatment will work.


 The good news I predict - you can keep your hard earned cash also in future!! 

As you can see, I'm always optimistic - even for others.  :Smile:

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## Conpecia

2014 will probably be too soon. If they have to go through Phase III, then deal with the FDA, 2015 seems like the absolute earliest. I'd love to think this product will be available in just a little over a year, but it just doesn't seem likely.

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## StinkySmurf

I'm convinced there will be another trial in April, and it may only be six months, but that doesn't mean it will be a Phase 3 trial, and even if someone mentioned Phase 3 to me in passing, I wouldn't put too much weight on it because outside of Aderans, I don't think the people who work on these trials are necessarily aware of what Phase the trial they're working on is in.

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## BoSox

Thank you all for the responses. Now that I have an idea of a release date.. 

Should i be concerned about my current state of MBP ( NW 2.5 )? Considering it will slowly get worse in the next 3-5 years while I stall it with Fin? Do you guys think Aderans will be a solution for us regardless of what state hair loss we are?

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## hellouser

> Thank you all for the responses. Now that I have an idea of a release date.. 
> 
> Should i be concerned about my current state of MBP ( NW 2.5 )? Considering it will slowly get worse in the next 3-5 years while I stall it with Fin? Do you guys think Aderans will be a solution for us regardless of what state hair loss we are?


 I'm in the same position as you are dude. My hair line has crept back some, but my widows peaks are so far back to make it a NW3 although its definitely at least an NW2. I've got diffuse thinning going on as well.

I'm just as hopeful as you are but I'm planning on fighting hairloss for the next 2 years with RU, Minox, Saw Palmetto, Nizoral and getting HST from Dr. Gho for my hairline/temples and to thicken up the rest with remaining grafts.

Lets keep our fingers crossed  :Smile:

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## garethbale

> The good news I predict - you can keep your hard earned cash also in future!! 
> 
> As you can see, I'm always optimistic - even for others.


 go away you annoying little prick  :Smile:

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## UK_

> go away you annoying little prick


 Lol well said.

I dont know why he's worried about curing hair loss - he's probably an ugly prick with/without hair.

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## StinkySmurf

So here is the question I wanna know.   Lets say this is not Phase 3.   

Why would Aderans switch to a six month trial if it's just gonna be another Phase 2 trial?

Why change now?

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## hellouser

> So here is the question I wanna know.   Lets say this is not Phase 3.   
> 
> Why would Aderans switch to a six month trial if it's just gonna be another Phase 2 trial?
> 
> Why change now?


 You probably shouldnt worry about them extending their Phase II trials. Its not likely to happen and they havent mentioned going down this route either, its always been Phase II -> Phase III

This Phase IIb stuff is just speculation and a rumour started by someone on this forum. Of course, its entirely possible that Aderans extends their Phase II trials, but unlikely at this point.

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## StinkySmurf

I confirmed myself what people on the internet found.  I'm almost certain there is another trial coming.  One person suggested the next trial would test for a different baldness pattern so this makes me wonder if they aren't doing a final Phase 2 to cover people outside the NW3V to NW5 range they've been testing so far.

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## StinkySmurf

The other question mark I have is the clinicaltrials website and the previous 11 phase 2 trials.  I've read it suggested before that Aderans added a final 2 trials to test genetic markers so I wonder the same as I believe Desmond suggested.  I wonder when does the clinical trials website update their pages when a new Phase 2 trial is added?

Or is it untrue they added 2 more trials a year and a half ago?

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## FearTheLoss

I wish they would ****ing update us more

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## Desmond84

> The other question mark I have is the clinicaltrials website and the previous 11 phase 2 trials.  I've read it suggested before that Aderans added a final 2 trials to test genetic markers so I wonder the same as I believe Desmond suggested.  I wonder when does the clinical trials website update their pages when a new Phase 2 trial is added?
> 
> Or is it untrue they added 2 more trials a year and a half ago?


 The updates are instant BUT the company has to inform them first! 

In their last update (Jan 2012), they announced that Phase 2 trials should conclude by the end of 2012. But then they added 2 more trials which extended Phase 2 to April 2013! This happened at around the same time as when they were employing a geneticist so some guys put 2 & 2 together!

I'm 80% sure April will be the end of Phase 2! My 20% uncertainty is based on the fact that Washenik gave no indication that Phase 2 will be close to completion at the November Stem Cell Conference! That worried me a bit...

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## 534623

> Youre a little bit overoptimistic.
> 
> http://www.aderansresearch.com/presentation/
> 
> 
> In this presentation (June 2010), Dr. Washenik is talking about Ji Gami *CN*  the final product. 
> CN is THE product, which works best of all (9 all in all) the other protocols (N, C, etc). In his old timeline table (2010), Dr. WASHENIK (not me or someone else, of course!) calculated the duration for every phase 2 or phase 3 trail with *around 15-18 month*  again, according to Washeniks *BLACK ARROWS* in his old timeline table.
> 
> But the phase 2 clinical trail for Ji Gami CN  
> ...


 The 18 month thingy (Washenik's BLACK arrows in the timeline table) per trail/phase, seems to be correct:

Here is the list of ALL trails (completed and still running):
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=Aderans

Just for example - this one:
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/N...search&rank=10
*******************
Estimated Enrollment: 	43
Study Start Date: 	May 2010
Primary Completion Date: 	January 2012 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure) 
*******************
So that's 18 month (Start to Completion Date).
I have not checked all the other trails in the list (1st link), but it seems that they always calculate 18 month per trail/phase. And yes, Washenik calculated also around 18 month (black arrow) for a phase 3 trail in his timetable. To get approval for phase 3 trails at all (most other studies in general fail in phase 2 trails) needs positive data concerning safety AND effectiveness. If we don't hear something this year (2013) about a phase 3 START - that would be not so good ...

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## Desmond84

> * If we don't hear something this year (2013) about a phase 3 START - that would be not so good* ...


 I think since Aderans is being Aderans, we have to try and speculate the possible outcomes of this *long journey* ourselves. Their updates have been minimal at best and their presentations mostly involve pre-clinical data (a ball of hair) with very little hard information regarding their actual observations in over 11 Phase 2 trials and 400 trial subjects!

We have recently seen for the very FIRST time photos of 2 trial subjects with regrowth at the edge of their balding areas without any indication regarding its staying power!

This brings us to the most important question of all. Does Aderans have a product that can *at least* compare to Propecia?

_I'm interested to read everyone's opinion! As you know power of prediction is generally by numbers! SO let's all discuss this important matter!_

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## Desmond84

What we know so far is that MPB is not due to a single hormone, protein, prostaglandin or malfunctioning cell!

It is a combination of all these in a 3-dimensional layer within the dermal/epidermal layer! (Iron_Man is correct when he says that)

The ultimate cure would involve complete replenishment of this area via follicular transplant. Something along the lines of what Tsuji lab achieved in Dec 2011...

Unfortunately, this method will NOT be in our grasp till 2020 and beyond which brings us back to our current fascination: Aderans.

Aderans is secretive at its best. No body is 100% sure what is in Ji Gami. Furthermore, no one can say with 100% certainty its ultimate potential. 

They don't hype up their treatment and lay low. In the latest ISHRS gathering, Dr. Washenik presented a topic regarding Permanent Sexual side effects associated with Propecia rather than discussing Aderans! 

It's frustrating at best and makes you feel so powerless.

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## Desmond84

I tried to figure out at least scientifically what it might be capable of doing and I'm sure you've all read them over and over again. 

But as we all know, scientific theories don't always turn into reality and clinical trials are there for that specific reason! 

So, 

- Will we be able keep our remaining hair with Ji Gami or NOT?

- Will Tsuji Lab finally start "First in Man trials"?

- Does Histogen really give back 30&#37; of your lost hairs?

- Replicel may have had minimal regrowth! BUT, did the hairs become DHT-resistant? i.e. Did the hairloss cease?

It is now February 2013 and unfortunately we still don't have answers to any of these questions!

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## Desmond84

So what now?

As patients awaiting cutting edge treatments we have 2 choices:

1) We turn our obsession into our fascination! We enrol in a post-graduate study and try and solve this mystery! This is going to be our ultimate triumph over MPB!

_(To my surprise, there's a great pool of scientists on these forums continuously updating us on hairloss science - People along the lines of Boldy, Science, Gangster_Boy, etc, etc)_

2) Accept what science can do for us *today* and live our life to the fullest until something better comes along!

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## Desmond84

As we age, our bodies will NOT be the way they used to be and hanging on to the past is not only foolish but detrimental to our health!

Acceptance is the first step to abandon our despair and the path to ultimate happiness!

I truly believe that humans are social animals and forums like these should be where ppl find comfort and acceptance. 

This is where I disagree with Iron_Man's approach! (I really respect your scientific opinions btw brother). But shattering ppl's dreams by shear negativity is simply inhumane and cowardly! 

We should all be here trying to get our fellow brothers through this horrible mess rather than simply telling them you've lost! it's over!

Love you all...

-Desmond

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## Conpecia

I am attempting to go with route 2 in Desmond's scheme. Which brings me to a couple questions:

Des, do you think .25mg of Fin per week will do anything as far as maintenance, or is the half life too short? It's the only dose I can take without gyno flaring up (chest still hurts but pain subsides to minimal levels after a week). I also use Niz 2% 1/wk. 

What do you think about Keratene pills? Seems more legitimate than most alternatives to Fin out there. Would I be better served to give it a shot than waste time taking low Fin doses, or would you stick with the Fin until more results come from Keratene?

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## amibald

hmm, kinda sucks, I just turned 19 a week ago and am NW2 with a little bit of crown thinning. 

Kinda sick of hair loss, but while I have a weak chin i've got perfect head shape and I already wear a 3 buzz anyway. Going to gradually fill in a light beard and then just buzz it lower and lower....then bic it!

Desmond you reckon by 2020 we'll have something? why doesn't everyone just continually get HST? Either way I think i'll just accept it, lift heavy ,take a multi and grow a beard lol . 

If something comes out in 10 or so years and I have dough, then ill still be pretty young ( 30 ish ) so maybe i'll only have to endure 5-6 years of baldy

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## FearTheLoss

> I think since Aderans is being Aderans, we have to try and speculate the possible outcomes of this *long journey* ourselves. Their updates have been minimal at best and their presentations mostly involve pre-clinical data (a ball of hair) with very little hard information regarding their actual observations in over 11 Phase 2 trials and 400 trial subjects!
> 
> We have recently seen for the very FIRST time photos of 2 trial subjects with regrowth at the edge of their balding areas without any indication regarding its staying power!
> 
> This brings us to the most important question of all. Does Aderans have a product that can *at least* compare to Propecia?
> 
> _I'm interested to read everyone's opinion! As you know power of prediction is generally by numbers! SO let's all discuss this important matter!_


 

With the funding aderans has and the amount of research they have done, they would not release a product that wasn't at least comparable to propecia...they would get laughed at. I would say if they release a product anytime soon it will be slightly better than propecia.

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## StinkySmurf

> This brings us to the most important question of all. Does Aderans have a product that can *at least* compare to Propecia


 Desmond, Do you or does anyone else have a few before and after photos they can share of what Propecia does to the crown?   It doesn't have to be your hair.  I just want to know what kind of results are we up against because the only people I know on Propecia have receding hairlines... 

I've never seen what Propecia does to a bald spot, and I read the other day actually that Propecia works better on the crown than the hairline.  Is that true?

There are actually three before and after photos in the Aderans video, and they are all taken at six months or less so we have never seen a photo at 54 weeks.

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## hellouser

> Desmond, Do you or does anyone else have a few before and after photos they can share of what Propecia does to the crown?   It doesn't have to be your hair.  I just want to know what kind of results are we up against because the only people I know on Propecia have receding hairlines... 
> 
> I've never seen what Propecia does to a bald spot, and I read the other day actually that Propecia works better on the crown than the hairline.  Is that true?
> 
> There are actually three before and after photos in the Aderans video, and they are all taken at six months or less so we have never seen a photo at 54 weeks.


 Finasteride (propecia) works *way* better on the crown than it does on the hairline. And it works damn well.

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## 534623

> ...does anyone else have a few before and after photos they can share of what Propecia does to the crown?   It doesn't have to be your hair.  I just want to know what kind of results are we up against because the only people I know on Propecia have receding hairlines... 
> 
> I've never seen what Propecia does to a bald spot, and I read the other day actually that Propecia works better on the crown than the hairline.  Is that true?


 I can only report what I tried with Propecia ...

In the late 90s, I tried Propecia the 1st time in my life (1mg/day) for around 3 years or so, and this stuff didn't really work in the front/mid-scalp areas, I think, because after around 3 years - everything I noticed was that I still lost more hair during these 3 years. Interestingly, the crown/tonsure area, wasn't affected at all during these 3 years.

A few years later (I stopped Propecia in the meanwhile), suddenly I noticed also thinning in my crown area. Of course, I tried Propecia again for around 2 years, in an effort to "rescue" at least the crown area with Propecia.

And what happened?
You can see the result in the photo above...  :Embarrassment: 

Let me guess: "You're just a bad responder...!"  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Anyway, then I stopped Propecia again. The pic above is now exactly 3 years old. In the meanwhile, I noticed that the crown-area (~55 cm&#178 :Wink:  isn't bigger than 3 years ago. I really hope this is "end-state" ...  :Embarrassment:

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## Desmond84

> I am attempting to go with route 2 in Desmond's scheme. Which brings me to a couple questions:
> 
> Des, do you think .25mg of Fin per week will do anything as far as maintenance, or is the half life too short? It's the only dose I can take without gyno flaring up (chest still hurts but pain subsides to minimal levels after a week). I also use Niz 2% 1/wk. 
> 
> What do you think about Keratene pills? Seems more legitimate than most alternatives to Fin out there. Would I be better served to give it a shot than waste time taking low Fin doses, or would you stick with the Fin until more results come from Keratene?


 Conpecia, 

From August to October 2012 (when I took Propecia for the first time), I took 0.25mg every 5 days and it definitely was working! I went through a shed phase followed by regrowth!

I then slowly increased the dose to 0.25mg TWICE A WEEK and I am still taking that dose to this date! My hairloss has been halted for now and my temples have stopped thinning!

With regards to chest pains, in a finasteride trial, patients taking 5mg/day were 4 times more likely to develop breast cancer compared to placebo (0.4% vs. 0.1%). 

Obviously your health comes first. So I would take 0.25mg every 5 days and see how I go for the first 3 months. If the pain persists or gyno develops, just drop fin and never look back again!

If all went well, try and at least take it every 3-4 days  :Wink:

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## clarence

> And what happened?
> You can see the result in the photo above... 
> 
> Let me guess: "You're just a bad responder...!"


 Hmmm from I read earlier, your hair loss is not exactly typical, judging from the age at which the whole pattern began to express itself. Or maybe rather, judging from my experiences with friends, relatives and mirror images, whose patterns often have been visible since their early 20s.

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## Thinning87

> I can only report what I tried with Propecia ...
> 
> In the late 90s, I tried Propecia the 1st time in my life (1mg/day) for around 3 years or so, and this stuff didn't really work in the front/mid-scalp areas, I think, because after around 3 years - everything I noticed was that I still lost more hair during these 3 years. Interestingly, the crown/tonsure area, wasn't affected at all during these 3 years.
> 
> A few years later (I stopped Propecia in the meanwhile), suddenly I noticed also thinning in my crown area. Of course, I tried Propecia again for around 2 years, in an effort to "rescue" at least the crown area with Propecia.
> 
> And what happened?
> You can see the result in the photo above... 
> 
> ...


 So is this why you go around this forum and spread negativity for no reason?

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## 534623

> So is this why you go around this forum and spread negativity for no reason?


 Is there something positive to spread? Did I miss something??
If so, please let me know!

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## StinkySmurf

HST is positive  :Smile: 

How is your HST coming along?

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## 534623

> HST is positive 
> 
> How is your HST coming along?


 Right now, this is not the question in this thread - THIS is the question right now...



> Desmond, Do you or *does anyone else have a few before and after photos they can share of what Propecia does to the crown?*   It doesn't have to be your hair.  I just want to know what kind of results are we up against because the only people I know on Propecia have receding hairlines... 
> 
> *I've never seen what Propecia does to a bald spot ...*


 Seems, so far, I'm the only idiot who shared his Propecia story - even with a photo. And guess what - I've never seen what Propecia does to a bald spot either (besides my own case)!

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## Conpecia

> Conpecia, 
> 
> From August to October 2012 (when I took Propecia for the first time), I took 0.25mg every 5 days and it definitely was working! I went through a shed phase followed by regrowth!
> 
> I then slowly increased the dose to 0.25mg TWICE A WEEK and I am still taking that dose to this date! My hairloss has been halted for now and my temples have stopped thinning!
> 
> With regards to chest pains, in a finasteride trial, patients taking 5mg/day were 4 times more likely to develop breast cancer compared to placebo (0.4% vs. 0.1%). 
> 
> Obviously your health comes first. So I would take 0.25mg every 5 days and see how I go for the first 3 months. If the pain persists or gyno develops, just drop fin and never look back again!
> ...


 
Thanks Des! I am going to stick with .25 mg of Fin a week for a couple months and see if this Keratene stuff is all it's cracked up to be, then make the switch. Do you know anything about DIM to combat estrogen-related sides? I think a combo of Fin at low doses and DIM might be a good holdover for 2015...

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## Thinning87

> Right now, this is not the question in this thread - THIS is the question right now...
> 
> Seems, so far, I'm the only idiot who shared his Propecia story - even with a photo. And guess what - I've never seen what Propecia does to a bald spot either (besides my own case)!


 why don't you try the propecia threads........

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## hellouser

I remember Maradona saying he would be going with a Gho procedure in the near future and waiting for an Aderans or Histogen procedure once available on the market.



My question is; is this feasible? I ask because I'm curious if implanting grafts into the donor area damages any follicles that aren't growing hair. I mean, suppose I myself got a Gho HST procedure done to fix my hairline and temples and then went in for a procedure with Aderans that also focused on my hairline and temples. Would it be reasonable to expect further growth in that area or would the only possibility be for another HST procedure in order to thicken up that area?



A secondary question; if the hair we are able to regrow using CB, RU, etc, could we expect to keep it stopping all medication AFTER an Aderans procedure? There's been a lot of talk and assumptions that Aderans acts as a permanent halt to further hairloss.

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## nativer

It was 1984 and I am 7.  I see a commercial" for the "Hair club for men"  Rogaine

13 (1997) years later, there is a pill (approved by the FDA) that will give you back your hair.  

16 years later, Pill has been proven to also take some peoples dick away.  

We are due for a break through, or the no dick thing was the break through.   If the no dick thing is the break through we are ****ed for another decade.

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## paradigmshift

> Is there something positive to spread? Did I miss something??
> If so, please let me know!


 You look not bad. May be lose some weight and cut the hair short?

As far as the positive: if Lauster and Aderans can grow so little as a single hair in vitro, then it's only a matter of time before someone industrializes the process. I am more worried about greedy patent hogs than the science at this point. Remember the transistor and Moore's Law (transistor density doubles every 10 years). Are we the last generation to grow bald? Because that would be terrible luck.

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## hellouser

> It was 1984 and I am 7.  I see a commercial" for the "Hair club for men"  Rogaine
> 
> 13 (1997) years later, there is a pill (approved by the FDA) that will give you back your hair.  
> 
> 16 years later, Pill has been proven to also take some peoples dick away.  
> 
> We are due for a break through, or the no dick thing was the break through.   If the no dick thing is the break through we are ****ed for another decade.


 Youre being modest, we are *long* overdue for a breakthrough.

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## 534623

I have some questions concerning ADERANS…

Aderans shows always just “success photos” at presentations/meetings/videos – right?

For independent VIEWERS, such photos do not allow them to analyze these photos – contrary to Histogen, for example:
********************************
http://youtu.be/khVm4wSpzjo

"When Dr. Cole returned from the Bahamas, he told me about the Histogen presentation he attended there. He was unimpressed because of the before and after images. Many of you are familiar with the strategy of obscuring details with a photo flash in before images and presenting the after images without photo flash. This of course should be avoided at all costs, especially if you are trying to promote a breakthrough medical technology. This statement should not be taken to imply that representatives of Histogen deliberately presented misleading photo evidence of hair growth. On the other hand if you ever present a medical breakthrough to a sophisticated audience like doctors, by all means present the highest quality images available.
Here is the link to Histogen's PDF they have posted:

http://www.histogen.com/downloads/si..._HSC_Final.pdf

Now this *PDF is really a huge pixel dimension document*. When opened and rasterized in PhotoShop, it reveals some relatively large dimension before and after images. To many people PhotoShop is synonymous with photo fakery. That is not necessarily the case. PhotoShop CAN be used to fake photos, but the newer versions have advanced technology that can find pixels obscured by a flash for instance. So PhotoShop has some very important and legitimate uses.

Histogen may very well be a breakthrough product, but Dr. Cole was unimpressed with the presentation because of the photo flash on the before images …"
***********************************

Why I’m mentioning all this?
Because Aderans, contrary to Histogen for example, they do not publish “really huge pixel dimension documents” or photos on their website – I have never seen any.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Anyways, so I’ve tried the following…

http://youtu.be/l_JHbtXJ0a8

Here is Washenik’s presented photo in the video enlarged…

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/...RI-results.jpg

If you don’t like my enlarged photo…

http://www.alopezie.de/fud/index.php/fa/10806/ 

…a user in a German hairloss forum tried the same.

So here are my questions:

Why is the black dot/marker in the after photo much bigger than in the before photo? In my opinion, it looks like the after photo is just zoomed?

Does the after photo show the same trail subject or at least the SAME area at all?

Why don’t they publish on their website a good *high resolution photo* of these presentation photos?

Is Aderans aware about a guy named IronMan, who is doing photo analysis and that’s the reason why they don’t publish high resolution photos? That’s THE question …  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## hellouser

> Why is the black dot/marker in the after photo much bigger than in the before photo? In my opinion, it looks like the after photo is just zoomed?


 Skin has a tendency to stretch and contract, hence why undesirable women have stretch marks (booyah, I'll get hated by Tracy on this comment).

Also, tattoos don't stay exactly the same on forever anyway. I wouldnt be worried about it too much.

----------


## hellouser

> Here is Washeniks presented photo in the video enlarged
> 
> http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/...RI-results.jpg
> 
> If you dont like my enlarged photo
> 
> http://www.alopezie.de/fud/index.php/fa/10806/ 
> 
> a user in a German hairloss forum tried the same.


 This method is *extremely flawed*. Simply enlarging a photograph does a number of things;

1) enlarges the pixels
2) smooths out pixelation (photoshop does this)
3) sharpens the end result which gives a false representation

Youre enlarged photographs should be canned from this conversation, scaling rasterized images up always degrades the quality. Unless you have the original photographs in higher resolution, there is nothing here to discuss further.

But this also goes back to my point about photographic evidence being a job of its own; resolution and image sizes are two separate things take form one element. You'd basically have to have a digital media specialist (like myself) creating the presentations for the public ensuring everything is up to even the highest nitpicking standards like the ones you yourself are expecting... and theres nothing wrong with that, its just that I highly doubt that these companys think about what format and pixel density images are taken and how important consistent lighting is.... and you know why? Because this isnt their speciality, so I would *not* hold this against them.

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## Desmond84

Wow! I just listened to the BTT Show this week, and realised how upset Joe is with me and my posts on this forum! 

Just wanted to say (particularly to Joe), I'm really sorry if my posts really offended you brother or anyone else for that matter. When I joined this forum late last year, there was minimal information on this forum about what Aderans is or what it can do. So, I spent a lot of time to gather information and show ppl through scientific journals what its potentials may be!

I just thought having hope will help you fight another day!

As of today, I will be holding back on my posts until major breakthroughs! 

All the best to all my brothers and sisters out there.

- Desmond

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## Jcm800

That's a shame Desmond. Personally I find your posts very informative and a good read  :Smile:

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## UK Boy

I really find Desmond's posts informative and enjoyable to read as well. I don't get why anyone would find them upsetting, well maybe the one the other week when he went majorly pessimistic and said we were all doomed - is that what upset Joe. If we're going to talk about someone upsetting people on the forum Desmond definitely isn't who comes to mind though. Why didn't Joe have anything to say about Ironman and his constant putting everything and everyone down?

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## clarence

Jeez you could at least have switched the quality to maximum in youtube's panel...

Much better, see?

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## 534623

> This method is *extremely flawed*. Simply enlarging a photograph does a number of things;
> 
> 1) enlarges the pixels
> 2) smooths out pixelation (photoshop does this)
> 3) sharpens the end result which gives a false representation
> 
> Youre enlarged photographs should be canned from this conversation, scaling rasterized images up always degrades the quality. Unless you have the original photographs in higher resolution, there is nothing here to discuss further.
> 
> But this also goes back to my point about photographic evidence being a job of its own; resolution and image sizes are two separate things take form one element. You'd basically have to have a digital media specialist (like myself)...


 Sure, I know what you mean – and THAT’s exactly the reason, why they don’t publish high resolution photos (and this IS possible!), because nobody should be able to ANALYZE them!

As explained in another thread, in an adult, a given hair structure is like a FINGERPRINT. That means, if you publish a good quality photo of your hair structure TODAY, and you publish a photo 30 years later from the same area – you will see almost exactly the same hair growth pattern.

For example, these completely “virgin” photos (straight from the patient's  digital camera) are just 9 month later (after his 2nd HST) of gc’s 3rd HST in the same donor area, posted by gc himself:

*BEFORE extractions (12 hours BEFORE gc’s 3rd treatment)*
http://www.fileden.com/files/2011/9/...2013%20057.JPG

*2 days after extractions*
http://www.fileden.com/files/2011/9/...3/DSCN1531.JPG

*8 days after extractions*
http://www.fileden.com/files/2011/9/...week%20027.JPG

******************************
Okay, now I simply did the following:

I marked *just 1 single extraction site in all photos* und labelled this extraction site with #12. Number 12 is easy to find above gc’s birthmark, and you can see EVERYTHING and each and every detail in ALL photos when you CLICK INTO THE PHOTOS TO ENLARGE THEM…

*BEFORE extractions (12 hours BEFORE gc’s 3rd treatment)*
http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/...before-HST.jpg 

*2 days after extractions*
http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/...days-after.jpg 

*8 days after extractions*
http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/...days-after.jpg

Here is the whole HISTORY of extraction site *#12* at a glance – THE voodoo-photo:


Different photo-angles or different light conditions of such complete photos, are completely irrelevant for making a detailed analysis…


As you can see, sometimes I had to turn some photos somewhat (but without any loss of quality!), just so that VIEWERS are more easily able to compare the marked and analyzed observation/monitored areas (*blue squares* in the photos).

So everything you need is just a cheap digital camera and you can’t fake such photos!
So feel free to encircle and to label all the other extractions sites of your choice around or below or above or on the left side or on the right side of extraction site number 12 – which serves as a MARKER for you, so to speak. Oh, and don’t forget to report the percentage (%) of regrowth sites.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## StinkySmurf

> Wow! I just listened to the BTT Show this week, and realised how upset Joe is with me and my posts on this forum!


 I hate to be such a newb, but can someone fill me in.  Who is Joe and what was it he said that we are injecting into this conversation?

For me it's kind of simple.  Desmond brought to my attention the role the androgen receptors play in cultured DP and how this might effect ongoing maintenance with HM while Iron Man brought to my attention the leakage argument and the risk of patchiness.

I really wish people would put their big kid pants on before they come into these Aderans, Replicel, or Dr. Nigam threads.  This really is about science folks!!!  

I've said this before, but I'm 37 years old which means I'm more or less gonna have this same haircut in three years when I'm 40.  This is a good time for me to consider HT or HM sure, but none of this is make or break for me because I sorta like my hair, and it's not really changing.

If I was really suffering from hair loss, and I know it is a very BIG DEAL so please don't think i'm trying to belittle it, but if I was really suffering right now I probably would have made an appointment with Dr. Gho because the evidence gets more convincing all the time that HST works.

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## StinkySmurf

> So here are my questions:
> 
> Why is the black dot/marker in the after photo much bigger than in the before photo? In my opinion, it looks like the after photo is just zoomed?
> 
> Does the after photo show the same trail subject or at least the SAME area at all?
> 
> Why don’t they publish on their website a good *high resolution photo* of these presentation photos?
> 
> Is Aderans aware about a guy named IronMan, who is doing photo analysis and that’s the reason why they don’t publish high resolution photos? That’s THE question …


 Haha!  Well, They should be aware of it, but I don't know for sure yet if it means they are  :Smile: 

Have you tried zooming the other photo or is there a way to un-zoom this one.  Is there not at least an inexact way to compensate for this and get a better look at what happened before and after?

I have seen a tattoo needle hit a hair follicle in a way that later caused something almost like an ingrown hair the way it swelled up and grew into a big black spot.  I'm not saying that explains this, but just throwing ideas out there.

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## garethbale

Who is this Joe from Staten Island and why was he so upset?

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## Kirby_

> Wow! I just listened to the BTT Show this week, and realised how upset Joe is with me and my posts on this forum! 
> 
> Just wanted to say (particularly to Joe), I'm really sorry if my posts really offended you brother or anyone else for that matter. When I joined this forum late last year, there was minimal information on this forum about what Aderans is or what it can do. So, I spent a lot of time to gather information and show ppl through scientific journals what its potentials may be!
> 
> I just thought having hope will help you fight another day!
> 
> As of today, I will be holding back on my posts until major breakthroughs! 
> 
> All the best to all my brothers and sisters out there.
> ...


 C'mon man, screw the haters. We *need* your infectious optimism here.

(Besides, didn't Joe from Staten Island get overexcited about Neogenic last summer?)

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## UK_

> Wow! I just listened to the BTT Show this week, and realised how upset Joe is with me and my posts on this forum! 
> 
> Just wanted to say (particularly to Joe), I'm really sorry if my posts really offended you brother or anyone else for that matter. When I joined this forum late last year, there was minimal information on this forum about what Aderans is or what it can do. So, I spent a lot of time to gather information and show ppl through scientific journals what its potentials may be!
> 
> I just thought having hope will help you fight another day!
> 
> As of today, I will be holding back on my posts until major breakthroughs! 
> 
> All the best to all my brothers and sisters out there.
> ...


 That's total bullshit - I find your posts incredibly informative and insightful - cant believe someone like you is being attacked and we have idiots like Tracy C with her thousands of posts of arrogant condescending argumentative bullshit to put up with.

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## hage

I'm just an interested lurker here but Desmond84 is the only poster I could name and the only poster whose posts I look for.

Undoubtably my favourite poster.

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## FearTheLoss

> Wow! I just listened to the BTT Show this week, and realised how upset Joe is with me and my posts on this forum! 
> 
> Just wanted to say (particularly to Joe), I'm really sorry if my posts really offended you brother or anyone else for that matter. When I joined this forum late last year, there was minimal information on this forum about what Aderans is or what it can do. So, I spent a lot of time to gather information and show ppl through scientific journals what its potentials may be!
> 
> I just thought having hope will help you fight another day!
> 
> As of today, I will be holding back on my posts until major breakthroughs! 
> 
> All the best to all my brothers and sisters out there.
> ...


 bro don't listen to the haters, I love you informative and optimistic posts!

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## JJJJrS

'Joe from Staten Island' is an idiot. I wouldn't be too worried what he thinks, Desmond. A lot more people on here value your opinions than his.

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## Gjm127

> Wow! I just listened to the BTT Show this week, and realised how upset Joe is with me and my posts on this forum! 
> 
> Just wanted to say (particularly to Joe), I'm really sorry if my posts really offended you brother or anyone else for that matter. When I joined this forum late last year, there was minimal information on this forum about what Aderans is or what it can do. So, I spent a lot of time to gather information and show ppl through scientific journals what its potentials may be!
> 
> I just thought having hope will help you fight another day!
> 
> As of today, I will be holding back on my posts until major breakthroughs! 
> 
> All the best to all my brothers and sisters out there.
> ...


 I don't post much, but you've been a great poster and I always look for your posts because they make sense and they're optimistic. We all need that. Please keep on posting dude!  :Smile:

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## Kiwi

> I don't post much, but you've been a great poster and I always look for your posts because they make sense and they're optimistic. We all need that. Please keep on posting dude!


 Desmond I love your posts!! You're one of the winners mate. Don't Gho! (see what I did there  :Wink: )

Don't worry about joe. He doesnt even post in the threads - the old geezer just moans to Spencer and is too good for us lot.

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## UK Boy

There's a whole lotta love for you Desmond lol. I don't wanna diss Joe from Staten Island  but he doesn't actually contribute to the forum, all he does is call in on the show each week and complain. Even Spencer looks like he zones out while Joe rants, he sits there going "umm" and "uh huh" and then occasionally says something back. Maybe years ago Joe used to be an active contributor to the forum but now he's just a novelty element for the show, people listen each week partly just to hear what crazy rant he's going to go off on. I'll probably get slated now but I've worked in television and radio and know how much producers love "characters" like Joe. At the end of the day BTT wants to keep it's ratings up like any other radio show. I do know Joe has problems and has been ill but I don't think that gives him the right to randomly attack forum members who make contributions that so many others find helpful. Desmond may be not always be right but he researches what he's talking about and posts in a positive manner that clearly helps a lot of us. What are the chances that this defence of Desmond will be discussed on BTT? 0%? Lol.

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## Desmond84

Wow guys  :Smile:  you have all blown me away with all your love and support! I was speechless this morning!

Believe me when I say I have been in a much happier place ever since I joined this community compared to a year ago  :Smile: 

I'm definitely gonna stick around and Joe if you disagree with any of my posts brother, just let me know! I think this whole thing is just a misunderstanding!

Btw, we're not far from a MAJOR Histogen update! Merely weeks away!!! Let's hope they got even more regrowth!

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## john2399

> Wow guys  you have all blown me away with all your love and support! I was speechless this morning!
> 
> Believe me when I say I have been in a much happier place ever since I joined this community compared to a year ago 
> 
> I'm definitely gonna stick around and Joe if you disagree with any of my posts brother, just let me know! I think this whole thing is just a misunderstanding!
> 
> Btw, we're not far from a MAJOR Histogen update! Merely weeks away!!! Let's hope they got even more regrowth!


 Keep doing your thing desmond..let the haters hate. Anyway, is there an exact date of when the histogen news will be out?

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## UK Boy

Dunno if this has already been seen but Ironman recently posted a screen shot of a page from an article which summerised the events of the ISHRS meeting. In the bit about Aderans it states that they were in already in the process of getting approved for phase III testing and that was back in October. So looks like Aderans are certain they have something worth spending the money on to continue through trials and bring to market. I don't have a link but just look on the Histogen thread and it's within the last few pages of posts.

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## Desmond84

I never thought I'd ever say this but here it goes: 

*"Iron_Man ur a LEGEND"*

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## Thinning87

> Dunno if this has already been seen but Ironman recently posted a screen shot of a page from an article which summerised the events of the ISHRS meeting. In the bit about Aderans it states that they were in already in the process of getting approved for phase III testing and that was back in October. So looks like Aderans are certain they have something worth spending the money on to continue through trials and bring to market. I don't have a link but just look on the Histogen thread and it's within the last few pages of posts.


 That's good news if it's true, let's hope it is. Moving on to phase 3 is a big step. The other day, I was talking to a guy who works for a large pharmaceutical company and oversees drug testing procedures. FDA can be a bitch, or not, really depending on how well things are done during phase 2 and 3. However, it's very common for drugs to take years to complete phase 2, but that doesn't mean they can't move on to commercialization relatively quickly. 

A lot of speculation about timelines on this forum must be taken as what it is, speculation. Let's see what happens, in the meantime stay cautiously optimistic everyone, don't give in to the trolls, but don't put your lives on hold assuming you will have all your hair back in a couple years.

----------


## UK Boy

I try to keep having faith in Aderans but I'm losing hope that they're gonna be a worthwhile treatment. We now know that the treatment only rejuvinates existing follicles, it doesn't create new ones. The treatment only works in 60% of people but you have to have a slice of skin off your scalp to find out either way. Then I'm sure Washnik said that about 40% were getting regrowth similar to or better than existing treatments - so thats 40% of 60% that are getting the same regrowth you get from Propecia. We don't yet know if it's compoundable either. As for the hope that it may make hair immune to DHT, again we have noh idea yet. It just all sounds a bit hopeless to me.

----------


## Thinning87

> I try to keep having faith in Aderans but I'm losing hope that they're gonna be a worthwhile treatment. We now know that the treatment only rejuvinates existing follicles, it doesn't create new ones. The treatment only works in 60% of people but you have to have a slice of skin off your scalp to find out either way. Then I'm sure Washnik said that about 40% were getting regrowth similar to or better than existing treatments - so thats 40% of 60% that are getting the same regrowth you get from Propecia. We don't yet know if it's compoundable either. As for the hope that it may make hair immune to DHT, again we have noh idea yet. It just all sounds a bit hopeless to me.


 Stop being so EMO about it, if it comes through good; if it doesn't, life goes on. We'll have to just wait and see what happens, there's nothing else to do.

----------


## UK_

> Stop being so EMO about it, if it comes through good; if it doesn't, life goes on. We'll have to just wait and see what happens, there's nothing else to do.


 Yes I mean it could be a lot worse we could be sitting here with **** all to talk about.

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## NeedHairASAP

> ya'll need to chill out and understand that if anything positive comes out it will be in the news or on the websites. Stop spending 5 hour a day in this thread.
> 
> I remain cautiously optimistic as there are reputable folks out there who have also been affected by mpb. They are doing a lot of work and investors are pouring good money in this research, which means someone's gotta be on to something.
> 
> I know this won't make everyone happy in here after the new wave of skepticism i just read. But i recommend everyone just take a step back and hit the bars tonight.
> 
> In the meantime, i suggest buzzing the hair really short. I did this for the first time 4 days ago to see approximately what i will look like when bald. Well, girls dig it. Seriously, i would have never imagined it. And i don't even have a fully symmetric, well shaped skull. But yeah, definitely much better than i thought, i had my hair like ryan gosling and i wish i could continue to have it that way but, guess what, as long as i look decent i'm good because as it's been repeated a thousand times looks are not all in a man. I got some compliments which makes me feel good and i'm gonna hit the clubs all weekend to see how many phone numbers i can get with the new look. I am optimistic!
> 
> So again chill out folks. Stay calm and carry on. If you are really depressed about the new insights on the forum, go out to the bars tonight and have an intense swim tomorrow. Get off the forum for a few days and cool off everyone. And buzz the hair really short, i feel awesome i accepted my self for what i will look like in 2 years and moved on. I don't have the thought in the back of my mind anymore! I'll take propecia twice a week just in case something will come out, and if it doesn't work **** it i already feel good about what i'll look like!


 
stay calm. Everything is going to be alright....

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## SebaURU

Any news about this? we are already in 2016
Is this similar to Repicel?

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## Trouse5858

> Any news about this? we are already in 2016
> Is this similar to Repicel?


 Ya this company is legitimately dead. They liquidated their assets and everything I'm pretty sure, totally defunct. The science didn't pan out. On to the next one.

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## SebaURU

> Ya this company is legitimately dead. They liquidated their assets and everything I'm pretty sure, totally defunct. The science didn't pan out. On to the next one.


 Really? this makes me doubt all . They tell you have wonderful results in their studies and then the lab closed. I 'm doubting Replicel , Histogen etc etc  :Frown: 
I am so depressed

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## allTheGoodNamesAreTaken

> Really? this makes me doubt all . They tell you have wonderful results in their studies and then the lab closed. I 'm doubting Replicel , Histogen etc etc 
> I am so depressed


 There are encouraging differences though... one being that both Histogen and Replicel (or rather, Replicel's method, recently purchased by a big company) are both making bold statements, and actions, regarding 2018 release dates in specific countries, as well as commencing further trials soon if not already. Histogen has recently managed to raise millions of dollars too, so that's encouraging. Plus Histogen definitely can regrow noticeable amounts of hair if they have not added fake hair to the scalps in their photographs (ie. if they've faked them, the typical 'different lighting/combing/camera angle' tricks that scams use cannot explain the amount of regrowth their photos appear to show). And those purported results are from a single treatment when multiple ones should presumably do better. And they need to see what happens if they vary the doses. Things are still uncertain and too much hope is dangerous but I don't see any reason to write them off at this moment, just the opposite if anything.

----------


## SebaURU

> There are encouraging differences though... one being that both Histogen and Replicel (or rather, Replicel's method, recently purchased by a big company) are both making bold statements, and actions, regarding 2018 release dates in specific countries, as well as commencing further trials soon if not already. Histogen has recently managed to raise millions of dollars too, so that's encouraging. Plus Histogen definitely can regrow noticeable amounts of hair if they have not added fake hair to the scalps in their photographs (ie. if they've faked them, the typical 'different lighting/combing/camera angle' tricks that scams use cannot explain the amount of regrowth their photos appear to show). And those purported results are from a single treatment when multiple ones should presumably do better. And they need to see what happens if they vary the doses. Things are still uncertain and too much hope is dangerous but I don't see any reason to write them off at this moment, just the opposite if anything.


 
Could be. But what it seems strange to me is that they show their results with only one picture. If the trials the did really works, why don`t the show more pictures. Because the regrowth of hair in a single subject could be by chance and don't necessary means that works in other people.

----------


## allTheGoodNamesAreTaken

> Could be. But what it seems strange to me is that they show their results with only one picture. If the trials the did really works, why don`t the show more pictures. Because the regrowth of hair in a single subject could be by chance and don't necessary means that works in other people.


 There's more than one picture available, I don't know if you've been looking at at an old presentation. I've not looked in quite a while but can remember one picture with a blonde woman that had her receded hairline restored, and one where a dark haired man with major loss at the front and on top showed crazy thickening in the after picture, and also there's a close-up shot of a coin-sized region of scalp. It probably doesn't work the same for everyone and they will of course have only shown their best responders, but they don't yet know the optimum dose, or best number of treatments, or how long to wait between successive treatments, or what the final result is after 18 months or 2 years or whatever, or who the best-suited candidates for treatment are.

Something interesting is that there are 3 things now that are being claimed to be released somewhere in the world in 2018 - Histogen, Replicel (via Shiseido), and also one of these topical drugs currently being trialled (can't remember which one now). So I think that at least one of them might have something that works and the other two are worried about it, and they're in a race to get their product out first. And it was Histogen who first came out with this 2018 talk if I'm not mistaken.

----------


## SebaURU

> There's more than one picture available, I don't know if you've been looking at at an old presentation. I've not looked in quite a while but can remember one picture with a blonde woman that had her receded hairline restored, and one where a dark haired man with major loss at the front and on top showed crazy thickening in the after picture, and also there's a close-up shot of a coin-sized region of scalp. It probably doesn't work the same for everyone and they will of course have only shown their best responders, but they don't yet know the optimum dose, or best number of treatments, or how long to wait between successive treatments, or what the final result is after 18 months or 2 years or whatever, or who the best-suited candidates for treatment are.
> 
> Something interesting is that there are 3 things now that are being claimed to be released somewhere in the world in 2018 - Histogen, Replicel (via Shiseido), and also one of these topical drugs currently being trialled (can't remember which one now). So I think that at least one of them might have something that works and the other two are worried about it, and they're in a race to get their product out first. And it was Histogen who first came out with this 2018 talk if I'm not mistaken.


 Yes, I saw the same pictures that you mentioned. I still are few. But I agree with your explanation. I hope it works at least one of those options. But since 20 years ago that labs are promising alopecia cure in 3 or 4 years. I think that most of those announcements are for publicity. I hope you are right and the cure will be available in 2018. I doubt it.

----------


## allTheGoodNamesAreTaken

> Yes, I saw the same pictures that you mentioned. I still are few. But I agree with your explanation. I hope it works at least one of those options. But since 20 years ago that labs are promising alopecia cure in 3 or 4 years. I think that most of those announcements are for publicity. I hope you are right and the cure will be available in 2018. I doubt it.


 Yep it has always been said to be only a few years away but eventually something will work and that 'few years away' claim will turn out to have been accurate. It's possible that we're in that time now, who knows. Hair follicles can only hold so many secrets and they're much better-understood now than they were 20 years ago.

Something else that's encouraging about Histogen is that their founder and CEO, Dr. Gail Naughton, seems to be a serious career woman with an impressive CV, and I'm almost certain I've read about her having brought other working products (unrelated to hair) to market before. She sounds like the real deal to me.

Oh, by the way, the third group claiming a 2018 release is Follica. So we shall see.

----------


## SebaURU

> Yep it has always been said to be only a few years away but eventually something will work and that 'few years away' claim will turn out to have been accurate. It's possible that we're in that time now, who knows. Hair follicles can only hold so many secrets and they're much better-understood now than they were 20 years ago.
> 
> Something else that's encouraging about Histogen is that their founder and CEO, Dr. Gail Naughton, seems to be a serious career woman with an impressive CV, and I'm almost certain I've read about her having brought other working products (unrelated to hair) to market before. She sounds like the real deal to me.
> 
> Oh, by the way, the third group claiming a 2018 release is Follica. So we shall see.


 
I hope you are right. About Dr. Gail Naughton I heard another Dr. saying that in a conference she said that Histogen made hair growth in a scar. And thats not possible because scar is dead tissue. 
One thing I would really know is if all this products and treatments that supposed to be launched beyond 2018 would work in people who did hair transplant. In the receptor zone I mean, to gain density.

----------


## SebaURU

Don`t forget that Shiseido said in 2005 that its product ADENOGEN was 94% effective for alopecia. And did`t work.

----------


## allTheGoodNamesAreTaken

Urgh, well we'll see soon enough then...

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## julia09

Good evening. There is nothing wrong with the contract. When I rented part of the house I also signed a tenant agreement and it's a certainty that no one will cheat you. If you are worried, you can read this article which tells you what a lodger's contract is. It explains everything in detail there. Good luck with that!

----------

