# Men's Hair Loss > Introduce Yourself & Share Your Story >  Struggle To Defeat Baldness (Norwood 4-5)

## StressedToTheBald

Hello, 
This is my first baldness forum to join, I'm becoming desperate, I'd like to share my own story and learn from the experience of others.

I think I never had a good set of hair in my life. Early on, I sadly never paid too much attention to it, and now when I entered my 30s and became aware of my lack of healthy hair, I believe it might be too late as I have already lost too much. Most likely my hair was receding even before my 20s, and in my 20s I used high doses of accutane for my skin condition - that only could have added more negative potential to my poor genes that most certainly carry MPB. Now in my 30s - my frontal lines are extremely receding, what I have in front is very thin hair and my crown is very bald with only thin patch of hair remaining. I've looked at the Norwood scale - I'm at least 4 if not 5 !

[img=http://img154.imagevenue.com/loc388/th_102154609_StressedToTheBald_122_388lo.JPG] 

On and off I tried all the natural stuff out there, trying to avoid minoxidil and propecia. Again, on and off I tried saw palmetto tea, B vitamins, apple cider, shampoos, herbal lotions, teas.. nothing really worked in terms of regrowing. At best, what hair I had left might have felt stronger, but no regrowth. Some stuff I got bored with after weeks or few months, so I can't be 100% sure if something could have made a difference if I had continued to use it. I remember, on and off, I used high doses of Biotin, up to 10,000 units daily - but that didn't work for me either.

I don't think my hairs are gone, when I come extremely close in the mirror, there are barely noticable discoloured tiny hairs - but they simply don't grow nor they turn to the colour of the rest of my hair.

I'm currently on beta sitosterol, trying to go up to 480mg daily, also use MSM topical cream 10% and MSM tabs 1000mg - I ran out of those currently btw. I also try to use anti-DHT stuff, like nettle teas, I drink apple ciders with 5% extract of garlic and nettle separately, use B 100mg complex, C, full spectrum minerals etc. At times, before shower I use garlic juice topical. I'm vegan, so I eat plenty of soy too, and I use protein isolates - which include high dosages of arginine and other amino acids..

But all in all and so far, very very tough luck !
I am considering starting minoxidil 5% if I don't see any results soon with my current regimen..

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## Tracy C

You are wasting your time and money trying "natural" remedies for hair loss.  There is no legitimate evidence that "natural" products for treating hair loss can help in any way to any degree.  Your money is much better spent working with a doctor who specializes in treating hair loss.  There are treatments for hair loss that are proven to work - and they do work for most people who use them.  Spending your money on products that are not proved to work is a complete waste of money.  If you are unwilling or unable to use the medications that are proven to work, you need to come to terms with accepting your hair loss and get on with your life.

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## rajivnairr

Hi,

  I shared the same dilemma as you and was in denial about the state of my hair until it was too late or so I thought. All these "natural" stuffs have not been proven to regrow hair or arrest hairfall. I am from India and the market here is saturated with so called natural/herbal/ayurvedic hair saving formulas which unfortunately DO NOT work. As someone who can understand your current state of mind, I would suggest you do not deliberate getting on Minoxidil/Propecia, get a trichologists opinion and get on the medication asap. I am experiencing great results with the Big 3. So go with the stuff that is known to work for you rather than spending money elsewhere...

Regards,
Rajiv Nair

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## StressedToTheBald

Appreciate Your thoughts Tracy C and rajivnairr.

I tend to agree & disagree.
My money would be best spent with a good hair transplant - I'd go for that straight away if I could afford one, but at this point I cannot, and I am not willing to go for a partial or cheap one I would regret later in time.

I agree that 99% of supposed 'natural' remedies out there are complete rubish and do not work. I am the proof that they do not work. But also there are new scientific studies showcasing positive effects of saw palmetto, beta sitosterols, procyianidins etc. Effects of these might not be as good as FDA approved stuff, maybe dosage is wrong or whatever, and most certainly they are not as well popularised as minox and propecia, but the lack of side effects goes in clear favour of potential natural remedies.

FDA approved minoxidil and propecia are no miracle cures either ! Both come not only with risks but also lifetime usage and high costs, all going to corporations that thrive on desperate people like us, exploiting our baldness.

Propecia is something I would not gamble with. I want hair but not in exchange for my health in other departments. For example...

"Cure for BALDNESS causes IMPOTENCE, says new study..
8th March 2011.
The new study, carried out by Dr Abdulmaged Traish of the Boston uni medical school and his colleagues, looks into the health effects of the 5α-reductase inhibitors (5α-RIs) finasteride and dutasteride.
Dr Traish and his colleagues write:
Results: Prolonged adverse effects on sexual function such as erectile dysfunction and diminished libido are reported by a subset of men, raising the possibility of a causal relationship ...
We suggest discussion with patients on the potential sexual side effects of 5α-RIs before commencing therapy. Alternative therapies may be considered in the discussion, especially when treating androgenetic alopecia."

I'd like to give 5% minoxidil a chance, yet some of its side effects worry me too. The side effect of potential hair appearing elsewhere I don't need it. Or the unknown health issues that might arise in the future. I don't know if it can cause related heart problems, maybe not straight away but in 5 or 10 years. It is well documented that minoxidil causes death with cats or dogs - some owners thought they could treat cats' fur with minox, and result was a disaster, topical usage btw. This makes me think, if it has such effect on animals, even though it doesn't harm humans the same way, it doesn't feel as harmless substance to me, otherwise animals wouldn't end up dead.

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## Tracy C

> My money would be best spent with a good hair transplant - I'd go for that straight away if I could afford one, but...


 Sigh...  There is so much you need to learn.  You need to get your self to a doctor who specializes in treating hair loss.  Hair transplant surgery, no matter how great, does not stop the progression of hereditary hair loss.  You still need to take medications for the rest of your life to prevent your non-DHT hair from falling out.  Without using medications to manage your hereditary hair loss, your non-DHT resistant hair will continue to fall out.  This can and likely will lead to long term dissatisfaction with your hair transplant surgery.  To get the most out of a great hair transplant, it is best to use the FDA approved medications for at least one year prior to having surgery - and then continue using them for the rest of your life.  It just is what it is.  Hereditary hair loss continues to progress for the rest of your life.  Therefore you need to continue to manage it with medications for the rest of your life.  Like it or not, that’s just the way the cookie crumbles.





> I agree that 99&#37; of supposed 'natural' remedies out there are complete rubish and do not work. I am the proof that they do not work. But also there are new scientific studies showcasing positive effects of saw palmetto, beta sitosterols, procyianidins etc.


 There are no legitimate studies showing any evidence what so ever that any "natural" remedy for hereditary hair loss is helpful in any way to any degree.  Sure there are "studies" but there are no "legitimate studies".  There is a very big difference there - and too many people are falling for the hype.






> FDA approved minoxidil and propecia are no miracle cures either !


 No one said they are.  However, they are the only pill and lotion proven to work.  That is why they have been approved by the FDA for the treatment of hereditary hair loss.  That's just the way it is for now - until something better comes along.

All medications have possible side effects.  If you think "natural" remedies do not have side effects, you have a lot of learning yet to do.  If a "natural" remedy actually could provide similar benefits as Propecia, it would likely also have similar side effects as Propecia.






> It is well documented that minoxidil causes death with cats or dogs...


 Um...  Cats are naturally allergic to Minoxidil.  I don't know about dogs though.  Cats are also naturally immune to some things that humans are naturally allergic to.  You are making an uninformed comparison here.

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## StressedToTheBald

> Sigh...  There is so much you need to learn.  You need to get your self to a doctor who specializes in treating hair loss.


 For what is worth I've actually spent many days, weeks and months going through hair loss facts and researches. I sadly don't live in the Western world and here there are no hair loss specialists or clinics, only general dermatologists who I'd say have no more info nor knowledge than an average Joe here on the forum.  




> Hair transplant surgery, no matter how great, does not stop the progression of hereditary hair loss.  You still need to take medications for the rest of your life to prevent your non-DHT hair from falling out.  Without using medications to manage your hereditary hair loss, your non-DHT resistant hair will continue to fall out.  This can and likely will lead to long term dissatisfaction with your hair transplant surgery.  To get the most out of a great hair transplant, it is best to use the FDA approved medications for at least one year prior to having surgery - and then continue using them for the rest of your life.  It just is what it is.  Hereditary hair loss continues to progress for the rest of your life.  Therefore you need to continue to manage it with medications for the rest of your life.  Like it or not, that’s just the way the cookie crumbles.


 I know that surgeons prescribe FDA meds after the transplant procedure itself. But what I also recall reading, most claim that the new transplanted hairs are DHT resistant and that they do not fall out. If what You say is true and even the newly transplanted hairs are prone to DHT falling out and have to be maintained by propecia and minox for life - then those surgeons are not telling the complete story or the truth at all. Then the whole story of the transplant as permanent and complete solution becomes only one more quasi solution to baldness problem, hardly worth thousands of dollars ? 





> There are no legitimate studies showing any evidence what so ever that any "natural" remedy for hereditary hair loss is helpful in any way to any degree.  Sure there are "studies" but there are no "legitimate studies".  There is a very big difference there - and too many people are falling for the hype.


 Example
^ Prager N, Bickett K, French N, Marcovici G (2002). "A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial to determine the effectiveness of botanically derived inhibitors of 5-alpha-reductase in the treatment of androgenetic alopecia". Journal of alternative and complementary medicine 8 (2): 143–52. doi:10.1089/107555302317371433. PMID 12006122.

Depends what You consider legitimate. If You only endorce powerful corporate studies by FDA aproved manufacturers, I'd ask You - if Your main goal was profits and if Your company makes profits from lifetime bound customers, You wouldn't be in a hurry to invent a permanent one time cure or promote natural ingredients that can't be patented or bring in steady cash flow ? 





> No one said they are.  However, they are the only pill and lotion proven to work.  That is why they have been approved by the FDA for the treatment of hereditary hair loss.  That's just the way it is for now - until something better comes along.


 They are medical mainstream I agree. But they are not one time solution and they don't work on all males either. Its very important to say and as far as I know FDA doesn't regulate natural remedies whatsoever. Btw, many cutting edge doctors today consider FDA to be rigid organization. FDA still claims 60mg or something of vitamin C equals 100&#37; RDA.. I bet Doctor Pauling (Father Of Vitamin C and promoter of real needed daily doses) is turning in in hes grave because of the FDA's rigid and backward stances on similar issues.




> All medications have possible side effects.  If you think "natural" remedies do not have side effects, you have a lot of learning yet to do.  If a "natural" remedy actually could provide similar benefits as Propecia, it would likely also have similar side effects as Propecia.


 Thats the whole point, risks vs. benefits, and somehow I still believe natural remedies carry less risk. I'm currently on 480mg of beta sitosterol - You are right thar even 'naturals might have similar side effects to propecia but still it feels as more fair gamble than propecia. I hope as it has similar side effects as propecia, that it might after several months give somewhat near results.

Beta Sitosterol Side-Effects:
"Numerous clinical studies and trials of β-sitosterol have shown that it may cause side-effects, most of which are not usually dangerous. By taking more than the recommended dose, people may suffer from stomach upset, nausea, diarrhea, gas or constipation, impotence (also known as erectile dysfunction or ED), decreased sex drive.[15] β-Sitosterol should be avoided during pregnancy and breast-feeding, since not enough is known about its effects on unborn and newborn children. β-Sitosterol is also not recommended for individuals with sitosterolemia, a rare inherited fat storage disease. Because people with this condition have too much β-sitosterol and related fats in their system, taking β-sitosterol will only worsen this condition. High levels of β-sitosterol concentrations in blood have been correlated with increased severity of heart disease in men having previously suffered from heart attacks."




> Um...  Cats are naturally allergic to Minoxidil.  I don't know about dogs though.  Cats are also naturally immune to some things that humans are naturally allergic to.  You are making an uninformed comparison here.


 Talking about uninformed, allergic You say. Well thats not what the research says. It clearly says toxic, like deadly, poison like.. We're not talking allergy, skin reaction or anything like that. If this substance is able to kill living creatures by topical application, suddenly it doesn't sound as harmless as skin irritation, allergy or whatever. I wish there were further studies and research available regarding the impact of minoxidil on human health in the long run.

"Minoxidil is highly toxic to cats and may cause death with inadvertent skin contact."
^ Camille DeClementi; Keith L. Bailey, Spencer C. Goldstein, and Michael Scott Orser (December 2004). "Suspected toxicosis after topical administration of minoxidil in 2 cats". Journal of Veterinary Emergency and Critical Care 14 (4): 287–292. doi:10.1111/j.1476-4431.2004.04014.x.
^ "Minoxidil Warning". ShowCatsOnline.com. Retrieved 2007-01-18. "Very small amounts of Minoxidil can result [in] serious problems or death"

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## Tracy C

> But what I also recall reading, most claim that the new transplanted hairs are DHT resistant and that they do not fall out. If what You say is true and even the newly transplanted hairs are prone to DHT falling out and have to be maintained by propecia and minox for life - then those surgeons are not telling the complete story or the truth at all.


 Somehow you have misinterpreted what I said.  I don't understand how you did that but you did.  Let me try again.

The non-DHT resistant hair will continue to fall out.  Please note that I said non-DHT resistant hair.  Did you catch that?  I said non-DHT resistant hair.  Just to be redundantly clear, I am talking about the non-DHT resistant hair.

The transplanted DHT resistant hair should remain for many years - but the non-DHT resistant hair around the DHT resistant hair will continue to fall out.  The result can lead to long term dissatisfaction with your hair transplant.






> Depends what You consider legitimate. If You only endorce powerful corporate studies by FDA aproved manufacturers, I'd ask You - if Your main goal was profits and if Your company makes profits from lifetime bound customers, You wouldn't be in a hurry to invent a permanent one time cure or promote natural ingredients that can't be patented or bring in steady cash flow ?


 Uh...  Here we go with this nonsense again.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   It's not even worth commenting on.  Believe it or not, I am trying to help you.  But nonsense like this makes me loose patience.






> Talking about uninformed...


 Yes you are very uninformed.  Cats and dogs can consume things that are poisonous to humans.  Humans can consume things that are poisonous to cats and dogs.  This is not an uncommon thing in the animal kingdom.

Now my patience with you has come to an end.  You came to this forum, a forum that is called "The Bald Truth"...  Since you clearly have no desire to accept the truth, you are in the wrong forum.

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## StressedToTheBald

> The transplanted DHT resistant hair should remain for many years - but the non-DHT resistant hair around the DHT resistant hair will continue to fall out.  The result can lead to long term dissatisfaction with your hair transplant.


 Ok, thats a different story, I understand Your point now.




> It's not even worth commenting on.


 I was hoping You would leave a rational comment. After all, its the major issue, why with all advances in the medicine we still don't have a permanent cure for baldness, yet the pharmaceutical industries gain huge profits on long term exploatation of what is our(both Yours and mine) common baldness problem.




> Yes you are very uninformed.  Cats and dogs can consume things that are poisonous to humans.  Humans can consume things that are poisonous to cats and dogs.  This is not an uncommon thing in the animal kingdom.


 Uninformed again. You are talking consumption, cats didn't eat minoxidil as far as I know. Previously You claimed it was allergy. Topical and toxic are the right choice of words. Name me another substance please, other than minoxidil, which simply dropped on animal's skin causes death and has no such effect when applied on humans. If You can find any substance like that, I'd really like to learn and to be proved wrong !




> Since you clearly have no desire to accept the truth, you are in the wrong forum.


 Let me be the judge of what truth is. If Your version of the truth is the only one and something all members of this forum should accept per se, then whats the point ? I thought this forum is for learning, exchanging views, concepts, ideas etc. If we all have to think and feel the same, then whats the point of forum discussions at all ?

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## Winston

Stessedtothebald, it would be wise to take Tracy Cs advice. She is just trying to save you from wasting precious time and money. She is 100% correct in what she is advising you, but one thing that I have learned form these forums, is that some people just need to learn things the hard way before they come around and realize that they wasted time and money that they will never get back.

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## DAVE52

> Uh...  Here we go with this nonsense again.    It's not even worth commenting on.  *Believe it or not, I am trying to help you.  But nonsense like this makes me loose patience*..


 You appear to lose patience quite easily  :Cool: 

As I stated before show a little compassion when " trying to help " people ..

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## Tracy C

> You appear to lose patience quite easily


 Actually no.  It was quite late when I was participating here last night and my patience was already thin to begin with from another member who was dishing out a boat load of BS tin foil hat talk.  When this OP started up with his own tin foil hat talk I was simply done talking to him.  He is clearly unwilling to accept reality and my time was better spent getting some sleep than trying to help someone who is too contaminated with disinformation to be helped.

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## StressedToTheBald

Winston, You mentioned wasted time and money. Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but both minox and propecia involve time & money in lifetime terms, so hardly do they deserve to be called the cure for baldness either, and both carry significant potential hazards comparing to anything else.

They too take months to years to show significant results and hardly work for all. If I have to wait that long, use them for life and gamble with side effects, then from my perspective testing out similar natural compounds like beta sitosterol, msm etc. doesn't feel as bad alternative to try out and hope for the best. 

I btw. am not persuading anyone to follow my example, and I believe everyone should follow what they believe is the best and safest way to regrow their hair.

And thanks Dave, I agree, a little more compassion wouldn't hurt. If nothing we all here suffer from the same problem, and as I said, we should exchange thoughts and ideas, experiences and results, instead of trying to impose singularity.

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## DAVE52

Good luck in whatever you choose 

I personally don't belive there are any natural remedies that will stop, slow down or encourage hair growth . If there was we wouldn't be here

As other have recommened FDA approved minoxidil and propecia may slow down and encourage growth but you have to take them for the rest of your life . Once you stop hairloss will resume
Although some people , myself included , did experience the side effects and ceased taking the drug . It wasn't worth it IMO . As much as I wanted hair I also wanted certain parts of the body to function

HT - I look at those people with *exceptiona*l reults ( ex Spex & Joetronic ) and they had upwarsd of 4, 5 ,6 ( ? ) HT's 

If I could offer any advice , as much as I wish I could follow my own advice , buzz it and get used to it buzzed .

Hairloss sucks 
If it's destined to happen , it will happen .
We will never be able to get that full head of hair that we had as teenagers .
A HT performed by good doc will give the illusional of a full of head of hair but the real density will never be there IMO

Good luck

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## Tracy C

For the OP,

The truth is readily available to you and easy to find.  The link is over there on the right.  Just in case you are missing it for whatever reason, here it is:

http://www.americanhairloss.org/

On the off chance that you are willing to accept real evidence, here is a link to before and after photos of men who have used the two proven medications for their hair loss:

http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/medi...atient-photos/

You will never find honest legitimate before and after photos such as these of men who have used natural "treatments".  It is very important that you know that this doctor is required to be honest and ethical about before and after photos to maintain his status as a member of the American Hair Loss Association and the IAHRS.  These two organizations are patient advocacy organizations.

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## StressedToTheBald

Thanks Dave, You too.

For me, its not as much as problem of slowing down or stopping the process, it feels like where I was bald or thinning years ago, its pretty much the same today.. I don't notice any rapid progression. Major problem is regrowth itself.. the tiny colourless hair I have in bald spots simply don't grow nor get the colour of the rest of the healthy hair.

Side effects aside for a moment, problem with both FDA meds & natural remedies is also consistency. To be fair, even with natural remedies I was often bored and quit before time if no results are visible. And it all takes months if not years to see the results.

I don't want to gain hair and loose health in other department either. Your example tells a lot Dave. I wonder how many percent of people have quit due to side effects ? I mean, doctors and manufacturers by default show good results and success photos but the percentage of side effects and damage is rarely displayed along success photos.

I believe good hair transplant is good stuff. Sadly, best doctors and full transplants can end up with final cost of tens of thousands, something I cannot afford at this point in time. And as I said - bad doctor and cheap transplant with not enough grafts to achieve full density.. well thats not the solution either.

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## StressedToTheBald

I've opened a separate thread to ask if anyone might have tried infrared massagers for hair loss. That laser comb thing is said to be FDA approved, still its expensive and many dispute the benefits.. Has anyone tried it and could cheap infrared replacement have any benefits ? Essentially, massager as such can't hurt for hair loss, the only question is if infrared light comparing to laser can add up in any way ?

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## sausage

I feel the same way as you stressedtothebald.

I don't want to be bald and impotent and then die of a heart attack, my lifes crap enough as it is. I also have no confidence that Minoxidil, Propecia, etc work.

Apparently 40-50% of people maintain their hair if they use these medications!!!!

That means if tried Minoxidil I have a 40-50% chance of stopping my hair loss. And if that didn't work then I could try Propecia which has the same 40-50% chance of stopping my hairloss. Almost a 50-50 chance either way, that equates to a good chance of me keeping my hair.......apparently, yet I still see bald men everywhere and don't see these medications being talked up about in the media, in adverts etc (although Minoxidil has an advert now). I am not going to rule out they don't work in some cases but it baffles me that if they claim to be that successful why are they pretty much unknown to the general public, everyone, even people with hair would know about them if they were that good.

Also slapping a sticky, strong smelling, dangerous, and expensive liquid on your head every day, especially when you have longish hair is not fun, does not look good and makes you feel like even more of an idiot and a bit of a mug.

If you feel very negative about your hair, save up for a hair transplant, do what is necessary to save the money you need. Otherwise try to live with it. I have decided I cannot live with it and I am going down the transplant route.

At least there is clear evidence that HT's work these days.

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## StressedToTheBald

Its true, the potential of trading baldness for impotence or heart problem at some point in the future ain't a fair trade to begin with. As I have written in my first post - I had experience with a very powerful drug in my 20s called accutane(isotretinoin), I remember beeing on it on very high doses for maybe even 7 months, and although it did pretty much cure my skin problem, well not 100&#37; but I'll say cured anyway, I believe this drug might have played a major role in speeding up my male pattern baldness and has likely left side effects in terms of increased depression etc... Quote:"Adverse drug reactions associated with isotretinoin therapy include:Common: temporary or permanent hair thinning (this could start or continue after treatment)". I can't prove it, but thats what it feels like. Many of the drugs, FDA approved, carry side effects and its easy to cure one problem only to end up with another, thats why I give my vote to natural stuff before anything else.. Yes, the chances of success are smaller and indeed 99% of supposed naturals really don't work, but if You are lucky to get that 1% to work at least to some degree, then we could avoid both dangerous side effects and high costs of FDA drugs. 

And I stand with my thoughts regarding pharmaceutical industry - they are driven by profits, not humanity. With all advances in science and medicine, we still don't have proper cures for many many health problems. Hair loss industry alone turns over billions of dollars each year. Its hardly in anyone's interest in this industry to find a one time cure, let alone to develop natural cure that cannot be patented. Anyone with 2 brain cells in them is well aware of this.

Chances 40-50% are not in our favour either. And add to that the fact of lifetime maintanance, costs etc. And the worse one is on the Norwood scale, the more time it takes. Even on those proof photos of finasteride and minox success - I can see 1+ or 2+ years of constant usage and still a good number of patients who started with bad case of baldness, still have visible areas that are bald or thinning. After 2+ years, better but not cured, simply feels not good enough.   

I'd go for the transplant too and maybe at some point in the future I will be able to afford it. Let me know Your procedure went and overall number of grafts and costs. Also I see surgeons tend to prescribe minox and propecia after the procedure - I'd like to know if Your doctor will do the same and if You will use any of those after the transplant. I'd go for the maximum number of grafts, the greater the density, the better it looks - plus if some of old hairs fall out, it would still be less noticable with more hairs transplanted.

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## sausage

Well I am going to try to get the best surgeon I can and make sure I get it done as full and as dense as possible.

By the sounds of things from what I have heard....surgeons recommend Propecia. As you know I am skeptical of this medication, but I will possibly give it a try, it is supposed to work better for hair on top of the head/crown which is the hair I need to keep. 

I definately do not want to become impotent though and I don't think my heart is too good anyway with all the stress I go through each day...I keep getting these short aching pains where my heart is which I should probably go to the doctor about. When I last saw my doctor she checked by blood pressure and it was high......so I am guessing the stress of hairloss has caused that to an already anxious person.

I am still researching into Hair Transplants and plan to get some consultations done in the next few weeks. So a long way to go, hopefully if I do go through with it I will book it within the next month and get it done in April/May. 

The whole thing is pretty scary...the money...and fitting it around work.

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## StressedToTheBald

Its one in a lifetime operation, I agree, best surgeon & max. density would be my pick too. Sadly it must cost a small fortune, but better to pay more than pay less and regret it for the rest of Your life. Btw. I'd go for that individual hair graft transplant method - its more expensive but I believe much better than the other one - which includes cutting the larger skin area from the back of Your head - that one is cheaper but I'd never go for it as among things it can lead to serious tissue scarring, which I am very prone to.

They sadly seem to recommend propecia.. Anyway maybe there are alternatives. I'd like to know what Your doctor will tell You and You should mention that You have heart/pressure condition.. worst case scenario, if Your doctor insists on it, maybe you can ask to go only with 0.5mg every 2nd day or something - if nothing else that should reduce risks of serious side effects. And hopefuly he won't tell You anything like 'You'll have to use propecia for the rest of your life..' 

Keep me updated about the results and overall process.
Finding the best and dedicated surgeon is the greatest initial challenge I think.

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## sausage

Yes, I am definately going for FUE (The individual hair by hair technique).

The FUT (Strip cut out the back of your head) is completely barbaric to me. It looks a terrible process, I don't know why anyone would go with this technique its sickening to me and I am not particularly squeamish. 

I am not sure if I have heart/blood pressure problems for sure. I ideally need to get my blood pressure checked again for sure. But I believe my health must have been affected in some way for all the stress I go through, and these heart pains are a concern.

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## StressedToTheBald

Yes, I'd only go for FUE as well. FUT indeed seems barbaric and something that in my humble opinion doesn't at all belong in this century. I don't think I'd go for that one even if some surgeon would offer it free of charge. It surprises me though why high-end surgeons still do FUT and proudly enlist it along FUE. I've recently been browsing the website of whats supposed to be one of the top hair transplant clinics in Europe - and surprise, surprise - they do both methods. I understand some people might choose it for beeing a bit cheaper - but they could easily regret it when it all ends up with severe scarring. I've also read experiences of people who have chosen FUT and now bitterly regret it.

I too am under a lot of stress.
I try to combat it with B100 high complex and more than 1.000mg of vitamin C. Animals under stress are able to produce vitamin C on their own, humans cannot, so its crucial to supplement it. I soon plan to start on 100mg theanine - its natural psychoactive and supposed to kill off emotional and physical stress. It calms down but doesn't sedate - which is good as generic drugs and most supplements work against stress but also sedate which isn't at all useful during the day. St. John's Worth is also good stuff for stress btw.

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## StressedToTheBald

Regarding propecia, here is a fair description..
Its from replicel website - some new research in progress everyone is talking about here http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=5067

http://www.replicel.com/hair-loss/current-treatments/
"Propecia&#174; (Finasteride)
...There is insufficient evidence that Propecia&#174; works for receding hairlines at the temples.  Listed side effects include erectile dysfunction and depression.  Once treatment is stopped, all results will be lost within 6 to 12 months."

Half of my problem is the receding hairlines actually, side effects are scary and not worth the gamble and as minoxidil this too if it works at all only works on temporary basis otherwise you get the initial stage of baldness.

Don't know when this replicel will come out as available product, if its affordable and offers more permanent results, with hopefuly vegan content of the product, I'd be willing to try it out.

Trouble with these new researches though is that they pretty much all take years to finish and throw out some genuine product on the market. Therefore, years go by, and the FDA list remains stuck with only 2 products none of which is a genuine, complete and risk free cure for baldness..

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## StressedToTheBald

And here is the study for what I am currently on. I take 4 x 120mg of beta sitosterol daily and will give it at least 5 months to see if there will be any visible improvement in my case.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract
J Altern Complement Med. 2002 Apr;8(2):143-52.
A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial to determine the effectiveness of botanically derived inhibitors of 5-alpha-reductase in the treatment of androgenetic alopecia.
Prager N, Bickett K, French N, Marcovici G.
Source
Clinical Research and Development Network, Aurora, CO, USA.
Erratum in
J Altern Complement Med. 2006 Mar;12(2):199.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Androgenetic alopecia (AGA) is characterized by the structural miniaturization of androgen-sensitive hair follicles in susceptible individuals and is anatomically defined within a given pattern of the scalp. Biochemically, one contributing factor of this disorder is the conversion of testosterone (T) to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) via the enzyme 5-alpha reductase (5AR). This metabolism is also key to the onset and progression of benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH). Furthermore, AGA has also been shown to be responsive to drugs and agents used to treat BPH. Of note, certain botanical compounds have previously demonstrated efficacy against BPH. Here, we report the first example of a placebo-controlled, double-blind study undertaken in order to examine the benefit of these botanical substances in the treatment of AGA.
OBJECTIVES:
The goal of this study was to test botanically derived 5AR inhibitors, specifically the liposterolic extract of Serenoa repens (LSESr) and beta-sitosterol, in the treatment of AGA. Subjects: Included in this study were males between the ages of 23 and 64 years of age, in good health, with mild to moderate AGA.
RESULTS:
The results of this pilot study showed a highly positive response to treatment. The blinded investigative staff assessment report showed that 60% of (6/10) study subjects dosed with the active study formulation were rated as improved at the final visit.
CONCLUSIONS:
This study establishes the effectiveness of naturally occurring 5AR inhibitors against AGA for the first time, and justifies the expansion to larger trials.

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## StressedToTheBald

I will soon include 'ganoderma lucidum' in my daily regimen as well.
Its actually one type of Japaneese mushrooms documented to work against DHT formation. I'll include a picture below. It is said that it blocks up to 50% of 5-alpha reductase, so it ain't perfect, but hopefuly with beta sitosterol and other stuff I use, I hope it might all add up and be somewhat of a natural replica of propecia.

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## sausage

I can't see those medications doing anything, if they were capable of bringing hair back or stopping loss surely everyone would know about them?

But you never know.

Worth a try I guess, if you are positive and whilst you can't afford a HT then go for it and good luck.

I remember when I first started losing hair I read a suggestion online which said try putting garden soil on your head while you sleep. I stupidly tried it, sticking it to my head with celetape. What an idiot I was.

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## StressedToTheBald

As far as I see it those meds(minox & propecia) work for some if used lifetime, don't work for others and plenty give up on them due to side effects. I acutally think they're well known among bald people seeking solution and as doctors and pharmaceutical companies offer nothing else but those 2 meds, they are the mainstream. Potential alternatives are actually the great unknown, there are fewer studies, way less funded, and doctors and corporations don't promote them as they have no interest to do so. Other stuff out there, researches, studies, they all seem to be 5-10 years away, and after 5-10 years, they'll probably say the same - they're 5-10 years away as the same was 5-10 years ago ! I said it before, and I'll say it again, today more than ever before in history - doctors and drugs manufacturers are here not for humanity or cure but to make huge profits. Profits before patients. Hair industry earns billions of dollars each year, yet still there is no real cure ! That is the bald truth and anyone claiming otherwise is selling a big lie.

I can't afford HT now, no. Nor I am willing to trade impotence for more hair. All I'm left with is shaving off my hair completely which I won't do - or go with the strongest natural 5-alpha reductase inhibitors for which positive studies have been made. Worst of it all, that for anything it takes months if not years to show visible improvements - even those showcasing success rate of minox and propecia - patients' photos show before and after 1 or 2+ years ! But what can I do, thanks for the kind wishes, You too, let me know how the HT went in Your case and what happens after with suggested meds.

Garden soil, thats a new one.. Well, as I said, 99% of 'advice & naturals' out there is complete nonsense. We just have to do our best to find the other 1%. I try to follow what studies say. There are small studies out there that do test natural inhibitors - fingers crossed there will come a day when something does work out for me without falling to temptation of minox and propecia.

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## sausage

You keep saying 'let me know how your transplant went' I haven't had a transplant, I haven't booked one, I have not even convinced myself yet that I should have one.

Its a tough one. One day I here good things about HT's and I am really interested and quite convinced to get one but as soon as I hear something negative I take another step backwards.

I am not sure where you are from? (sorry if you have already said) I am from England and as I have posted many times on these forums before, it is Wayne Rooney's transplant that made me interested in HT's, if your from America you probably won't know who he is.

He only had it done around the 1st June last year but it does look good although I do not know if I am being conned by a concealent. Part of me wants to wait and see how his hair holds out for another year.

I am 27 now, single and the next 5 years of my life are an important time for me to find a girl and settle down although with my lack of hair and confidence I will never be able to chat up a girl until I get my hair back.

I really want to be able to say screw it, just get out there and give it ago and find a girl, but I don't see myself crossing that line. 

There is a girl I really like and if I had hair I am convinced I would be with her, I feel I need to get my hair back ideally sometime this year in order be able to ask her out. I have not seen her for 4 years and had a fairly decent head of hair when I last saw her so she may not even notice if I had anything done. 

If I could click my fingers now and have a full head of hair, I would ask her out tomorrow no problem which could lead to bigger and better things, a house together eventually and a family. Thats how much I believe hair would change my life, instead I am single and a recluse and thats the way it is until I somehow just give in to my baldness and get on with things or I get a HT and my life would be how it should be........normal.

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## StressedToTheBald

Sorry, I thought it was a done decission.
For me its about the money. If I could afford it, I'd go with the best surgeon and would pick the best method, but thats just me, if You go for it has to be Your choice.

It all depends how bad Your baldness is and how You feel about it. I mean, if I had Norwood 1-2, I wouldn't be half as worried as with my stage 4-5 on Norwood scale. It simply looks terrible unless shaved off. 

I'm way more Eastly bound. I know who Wayne is, his hair was very bad in front before the transplant - I think he had receding hairlines like I have now, not sure if he had bald spot on the crown too. Look, I think You're in the best place for transplant. If I could afford it, I'd do my transplant in England or even better - maybe in Ireland, those two place I tend to believe lead in Europe. But also, pay attention, if You choose to do it and where You do it, which doctor, clinic etc. I think Wayne's HT was like 30,000 british pounds ? Way, way out of my price range. Feels like sports car value for a set of hair, yet he could afford this price.

I know whats it like, bald hair takes away confidence and any folks saying otherwise or saying they'd be brave & confident even if they would go bald(those never do btw.) are full of crap. It matters when You look in the mirror and dislike what You see. And the balder one is, the worse the feeling. Although its not a disease, it feels like one, like lost youth or vitality, feels something ain't right.

It would be confidence boosting. I've heard a famous actor who did his transplant in Ireland btw. saying how much it meant to him, that he got new roles, movies and thats what its all about - selfconfidence.

Same goes for girls, sure one feels more confident without having to hide behind a hat or thinking - 'does she notice or what she thinks'. Most girls claim they don't care about our hair, yet I'm not sure if thats totally true. On the other side - You mentioned a future, family etc. and future also means challenges ahead - I hope the girl can appreciate beyond just hair, as there there should be more to human beeings than just full set of hair. My best wishes and best of luck.

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## sausage

Apparently England and Ireland are not renowned for HT surgery although there is one IAHRS approved surgeon here, people on this forum tend to tell me and everyone else to avoid England and Ireland. There are 2 IAHRS surgeons based in Belgium so I think thats probably the best place to go in Europe.

Anyway a bit more research to do and more decision making.

A head of hair would change my life, hopefully this year, fingers crossed.

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## StressedToTheBald

> Apparently England and Ireland are not renowned for HT surgery although there is one IAHRS approved surgeon here, people on this forum tend to tell me and everyone else to avoid England and Ireland. There are 2 IAHRS surgeons based in Belgium so I think thats probably the best place to go in Europe.
> 
> Anyway a bit more research to do and more decision making.
> 
> A head of hair would change my life, hopefully this year, fingers crossed.


 I didn't consider that fact. Good observation though, I'll look further into that matter. The prices are certainly highest in England and Ireland, 10 euros per just one single graft for example I think is the highest cost in Europe.

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## sausage

> I didn't consider that fact. Good observation though, I'll look further into that matter. The prices are certainly highest in England and Ireland, 10 euros per just one single graft for example I think is the highest cost in Europe.


 Yeah we always get ripped off here in Britain.

Rooney's was speculated to be £30,000 whether thats true or not I don't know. I doubt he even paid a penny. But if he actually did have to pay then 30k is very expensive, some papers said it cost him £12,000 so thats a bit of a difference in price.

I have also heard surgeons here are booked up for over a year, so theres huge waiting lists. In America apparently you only have to wait 4 months.

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## StressedToTheBald

Could easily be true.. for example 3,000 grafts x 10 pounds, or 4,000 grafts x 7,50 pounds plus best clinic and surgeon, it easily comes to 30,000 pounds. I'm not worried about him though - he would as easily cash out 300,000 if needed, its us average Joes who struggle to save up a fraction of the cost.

Waiting lists !? Now thats proposterous. I mean with that amount of cash for half a day's work and one has to wait for months. Utter disgrace.. People wanting to become filthy rich these days need not consider banking or politics, turns out that beeing a hair doctor is the most profitable profession in the world.

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## StressedToTheBald

I have noticed a 3-4mm length single hair on my left side of receding hairline. Its still not proper colour, but what might make it special is that appeared in the place where I am bald and never really had hair. Fingers crossed, although tiny and insignifacant, it might be a sign that I am doing something right with my regimen.

Much closer to the rest of the spots where I have hair, I think I can also notice some very tiny hairs, much smaller though, weaker and also poor in colour.

If any of these hairs develop further and gain proper colour and strength in the months ahead, I'll report any visible progress and include zoom in pictures.

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## sausage

> If any of these hairs develop further and gain proper colour and strength in the months ahead, I'll report any visible progress and include zoom in pictures.


 Sounds good, hope it keeps sprouting.

Can I ask you about the general texture of your hair, I am interested to know more about balding mens hair texture etc. I asked that grease question the other day which you helped me very much with the sebum issue....

Do you have much of a sebum issue yourself?

I find the texture of my hair is a little staw like and not as soft as when my hair was when I was 15 when it was thick and non-balding.

Do you find your hair is the same?

Thanks.

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## StressedToTheBald

> Sounds good, hope it keeps sprouting.
> 
> Can I ask you about the general texture of your hair, I am interested to know more about balding mens hair texture etc. I asked that grease question the other day which you helped me very much with the sebum issue....
> 
> Do you have much of a sebum issue yourself?
> 
> I find the texture of my hair is a little staw like and not as soft as when my hair was when I was 15 when it was thick and non-balding.
> 
> Do you find your hair is the same?
> ...


 I hope so too, even the tiny hairs if they properly grow up and get colour, it might not be much, but it would feel like a small miracle to me. I just have to hope for the best, be persistant with my natural regimen and give it time.

I believe my scalp does get more oil than it needs. With regular wash I believe its less of a problem, but put cream, lotion or dare leave it a day without a wash and I think its gets way more oily than it should. It used to be much worse I think - I had severe acne in my 20s, cured it with accutane - but its a sword with two sides - my baldness rapidly increased in the meantime.

The texture of my hair is way too soft. Even where I'm not bald and have decent hair density - even my DHT resistant hair simply isn't brush strong but featherly soft. I recall in the past - one of the first comments at the barber's was that my hair is like straw. Can't say if this is baldness related. It may or not be, most likely as we inherit baldness we also inherit the type of hair - strength, colour and what else not. Sadly, most of what we are seems to be determined in advance and fixing what ain't right would be the scientific miracle - no one really knows how to fix genes.

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## sausage

Your hairs soft but someone said it was like straw?

Sorry I am a bit confused, is your hair soft or straw like these days?

I am trying to figure out if all balding people have the same/similar hair conditions.

To sum my hair/scalp conditions up, daily hair issues....

1. I have a lot of sebum, have to wash hair daily.

2. I have a pretty much constant noticable cold sensation on the bald part of my scalp.

3. In the summer my scalp easily gets burnt.

4. My hair texture is a bit of a dry slightly straw like texture.

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## StressedToTheBald

Yes. It was always soft, still is. The word straw was used to desribe poor quality, lightweight, not thick, no consistency.. in that sense it is like straw.

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## sausage

> Yes. It was always soft, still is. The word straw was used to desribe poor quality, lightweight, not thick, no consistency.. in that sense it is like straw.


 
Soft, lightweight, thin hair does not sound straw like.

Thickish, prickly, and dry is how I'd describe mine = straw like.

I guess not all baldies have the same type of bald condition hair then.

I am going to get a transplant I think. I want it around April/May time. If it works then I am going straight to the girl of my dreams and ask her out, (thats if she's still single then). Time to be positive.

PS. I saw a gruesome image on here of a FUT transplant, someone had uploaded a graphic, hideous, sickening image of the back of someones head with a huge gash missing from their head. Yuck!!! absolutely sickening. No1 should ever get FUT.

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## StressedToTheBald

> Soft, lightweight, thin hair does not sound straw like.
> 
> Thickish, prickly, and dry is how I'd describe mine = straw like.
> 
> I guess not all baldies have the same type of bald condition hair then.
> 
> I am going to get a transplant I think. I want it around April/May time. If it works then I am going straight to the girl of my dreams and ask her out, (thats if she's still single then). Time to be positive.
> 
> PS. I saw a gruesome image on here of a FUT transplant, someone had uploaded a graphic, hideous, sickening image of the back of someones head with a huge gash missing from their head. Yuck!!! absolutely sickening. No1 should ever get FUT.


 Word interpretation aside, I surely have the opposite hair texture comparing to what You have.

Best of luck with HT. I do hope it all goes well. Also if You can find guarantees, that would be brilliant.

FUT is nightmare ! I wouldn't allow any surgeon to cut off a piece from the back of my head. It can't be done without serious scarring - then You end up having to 'cover' the scar with another transplant. Heres what I've found someone uses as a signature on another forum:

_"F@(K it! No treatments. Nothing. Im done wasting money. 
Dr. Thomas (scum) Wentland-1800 hairs, destroyed my life. 
Dr. Ron Shapiro- 176 FUE into scar. Happy with results. 
Buzzing my head no guard, happy except for the marks left from scumland, i mean Dr. wentland."_

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## sausage

> Heres what I've found someone uses as a signature on another forum:
> 
> _"F@(K it! No treatments. Nothing. Im done wasting money. 
> Dr. Thomas (scum) Wentland-1800 hairs, destroyed my life. 
> Dr. Ron Shapiro- 176 FUE into scar. Happy with results. 
> Buzzing my head no guard, happy except for the marks left from scumland, i mean Dr. wentland."_


 Not a happy chappy.

At least Dr Wentland is not an IAHRS approved surgeon otherwise that reaction would be worrying to me. + I have 100% ruled out FUT arggghh, it hurts just thinking about it.

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## clandestine

StresseddToTheBald; What's your current regime?

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## StressedToTheBald

> Not a happy chappy.
> 
> At least Dr Wentland is not an IAHRS approved surgeon otherwise that reaction would be worrying to me. + I have 100% ruled out FUT arggghh, it hurts just thinking about it.


 I fully agree.

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## StressedToTheBald

> StresseddToTheBald; What's your current regime?


 I've already posted in the visitor's messages.
Here it is again.

My latest daily regimen* roughly consists of:
- 480mg beta sitosterol
- 2 x MSM 10% cream, topical
- 6 x 1000mg MSM tablets (currently out, awaiting new pack)
- 1 x B100mg complex, all B vitamins, high concentration
- 3 x C500mg with bioflavonids, biotin etc. Time Release tabs
- 2 x Full Spectrum Minerals, high concentration
- 3000mg+ arginine, 500mg+ taurine and other potent amino acids, all via protein shakes
- 3 x Apple Cider Vinegar, orally dissolved in water & randomly topical
- Nettle, Green and Black Tea, orally & randomly green topical
- garlic juice before shower, randomly, topical
- shampoos:
No. 1 with sage, rosemary, beer, zinc etc.
No. 2 with caffeine, arginine, barley etc. 
etc.

*To be updated for time to time.

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## StressedToTheBald

Upped my dosage of beta sitosterol to 510mg, also now combined with 300mg of saw palmetto, 200mg pygeum africanum.. all daily. Some other changes as well, I will include a full list with more details soon.

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## clandestine

> Upped my dosage of beta sitosterol to 510mg, also now combined with 300mg of saw palmetto, 200mg pygeum africanum.. all daily. Some other changes as well, I will include a full list with more details soon.


 Curious what your take on saw palmetto is, StressedToTheBald. I understand it works in a similar fashion to finasteride. Can we thus assume similar sides are a possibility?

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## StressedToTheBald

> Curious what your take on saw palmetto is, StressedToTheBald. I understand it works in a similar fashion to finasteride. Can we thus assume similar sides are a possibility?


 On and off I have been taking saw palmetto in tea form in the past - haven't seen any visible improvements then, although the overall time has been short. I do believe however that saw palmetto is way less potent than beta sitosterol. I have found several articles claiming that beta sitosterol is at least 1000+ times more powerful than saw palmetto. Here are some interesting quotes I have gathered:

_"typical serving of beta sitosterol has more active ingredient than 3000 capsules of dried saw palmetto berries…
One capsule of beta sitosterol usually contains 300 mg of pure beta-sitosterol. You would have to eat 2 lbs. of saw palmetto to get the same amount of beta-sitosterol one 300 mg capsule. This is 3000 times more potent than saw palmetto."_

_"Beta-Sitosterol is 1,000 times more effective than saw palmetto and pumpkin seed. The common ingredient in most herbs, that blocks DHT, is Beta-Sitosterol."_

http://www.drugs.com/npc/beta-sitosterol.html

You are right, both saw palmetto and beta sitosterol indeed work against 5-alpha reductase, same enzyme that finasteride is fighting, but without the side effects. How do I know that there won't be any side effects - I don't have a proof but beta sitosterol is also found in avocados, canola oil, pistachios etc. - if You were to eat these in huge amounts, its all natural stuff and I haven't seen anyone who got permanent impotence from healthy foods. Also, beta sitosterol is prescribed for cholesterol treatment, even up to 6,000mg.. Although decreased libido is listed as one of the potential side effects of beta sitosterol - same as finasteride, I highly doubt that this natural compound is to be marked as hazardous as finasteride.

Beta sitosterol, saw palmetto etc. seem to have stuff in common with finasteride, but I can't say if the mechanisms of actions are exactly the same. Also all of these are used for enlarged prostate treatment - this is what dutasteride (5mg finasteride) is doing too..

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## StressedToTheBald

In this study patients were given 100mg of beta sitosterol and 400mg of saw palmetto. 60&#37; was the success rate at the end - finasteride doesn't offer better success chances than this.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12006122
http://www.hairgenesis.com/hairstudy02.pdf

_"Since AGA shares similar hormonal pathways with BPH, it was previously  recognized that the pharmaceutical agents useful against BPH may offer some potential benefit in the treatment of AGA. The modification of Proscar (finasteride 5mg initially indicated for BPH), to Propecia (finasteride 1mg new indication AGA) serves as a paradigm for this rationale (Kaufmann 1999). Like finasteride, several botanically derived substances have also demonstrated the ability to inhibit key hormonal processes associated with BPH. Importantly, these botanicals have not been linked with the spectrum of negative side effects, adverse reactions, or teratogenicity, associated with the pharmaceutically derived alternatives (Klepser and Klepser, 1999).

Recently, several clinical trials have been reported demonstrating the efficacy of botanical compounds in the treatment of a number of androgen dependent conditions, and, specifically, BPH.  For example, among 1,098 BPH patients tested in one recent study, the general safety profile of the lipsterolic extract of Serenoa repens (LSESr 320 mg/day),  or saw palmetto berry extract, compared favorably with that of finasteride, and sexual side effects were less common with the extract than with the drug. In particular the use of this extract has not been associated with erectile dysfunction, ejaculatory disturbance, or altered libido (Wilt et al. 2000a). Remarkably, in another biochemical study, it was found that LSESr was a 3-fold more effective inhibitor than finasteride (5 mg/day) at concentrations adjusted to the recommended doses for BPH treatment.  It should be noted that finasteride as indicated for AGA is dosed significantly lower (1 mg/day), suggesting, a 15-fold more potent level of inhibition at the recommended daily dose of LSESr (320 mg/day) (Delos et al. 1994)." _

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## Seb89

> I can't see those medications doing anything, if they were capable of bringing hair back or stopping loss surely everyone would know about them?
> 
> But you never know.
> 
> Worth a try I guess, if you are positive and whilst you can't afford a HT then go for it and good luck.
> 
> I remember when I first started losing hair I read a suggestion online which said try putting garden soil on your head while you sleep. I stupidly tried it, sticking it to my head with celetape. What an idiot I was.


 I honestly can say i havent laughed like that in ages. That is brilliant. Thank you for sharing.

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## sausage

> I honestly can say i havent laughed like that in ages. That is brilliant. Thank you for sharing.


 True story.

I was devastated when I started losing my hair, I don't know how I fell for that, I guess I was so desperate I tried it. Kept a tub of soil under my pillow. It was impossible to keep on my head, the cellotape did not work.

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## Morbo

> I can't see those medications doing anything, if they were capable of bringing hair back or stopping loss surely everyone would know about them?
> 
> But you never know.
> 
> Worth a try I guess, if you are positive and whilst you can't afford a HT then go for it and good luck.
> 
> I remember when I first started losing hair I read a suggestion online which said try putting garden soil on your head while you sleep. I stupidly tried it, sticking it to my head with celetape. What an idiot I was.


 



> I honestly can say i havent laughed like that in ages. That is brilliant. Thank you for sharing.


 I think the more important question to ask here is: did it work?

----------


## sausage

> I think the more important question to ask here is: did it work?


 Yeah it worked, especially when you mix it with cat piss.

Cat piss has extra DHT blockers and helps stick the soil to your head.

Give it a go.

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## Seb89

I think we all know about the devastation it causes, and can understand any straw clutching to try and save hair.

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## Seb89

You should have tried miracle grow.

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## Morbo

> Yeah it worked, especially when you mix it with cat piss.
> 
> Cat piss has extra DHT blockers and helps stick the soil to your head.
> 
> Give it a go.


 Just imagine what kind of fools you guys are going to look if that actually works.

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## sausage

> You should have tried miracle grow.


 Very good.  :Big Grin: 

Its probably better than Monoxidil.

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## sausage

> Just imagine what kind of fools you guys are going to look if that actually works.


 Let us know how it goes.

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## Morbo

> Let us know how it goes.


 I will make it so.

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## StressedToTheBald

As I am soon entering my 2nd month, I will soon update my current regimen and write down the sums of all main supplements.

----------

