# Hair Transplants > Hair Transplant: Start Your Own Topic >  Scar Grafting with Dr Cole

## northeastguy

On Monday I began repairing the two large scars I have from prior Strip surgeries. My research to repair them started back in December. I simply wanted to buzz my hair short but had the issue of the scars being visible. In my opinion, someone who is going bald looks very good with a short buzz cut. I felt like I had come to terms with my every thinning scalp and just wanted to move on with this chapter of my life. So I looked into Micro-pigmentation, Revisions, and finally FUE into the scars which ultimately I felt was going to give me the most natural look. I met with numerous physicians and spoke with many others via E-mail and phone. Dr Feller, Dr Bernstein, Dr Charles, Dr Wasserbauer, Dr True, Dr Shapiro, H & W, Dr Basanga, Dr Umar, Bosely, Dr DiStefano, and Dr Cole. Most if not all the other folks I mentioned were extremely helpful in my research and I personally want to thank them.
Ultimately I went with Dr Cole. Once I ruled out a revision, I felt I had the best chance of successful scar grafting with Him. Since I was going to do FUE I wanted to go with someone who primarily focuses on this technique and had consistent success grafting into scars. I also had an interest in using PRP and Acell to increase the survival rate of the grafts. 

From 1993 to 2000 I had 5 total strip procedures leaving me with 2 large scars on the back of my head. Top scar was 19.5cm x .5cm and bottom was 15.5 x .5cm. Within the last year, my decision to cut my hair extremely short (#2 clipper) became more and more of an interest. I felt it would be the best look considering I was continuing to lose hair. The shortest I was able to previously cut was a #6. My goal is a #2. Obviously the problem with doing this was the exposure of the scars as you can see in the photo.   

This past Monday we began the process of reversing a poor decision I made as a 22 y/o. Most likely to get full effects from the grafting, Ill need 2 procedures. Ill know more in 8 months time. The hardest part now is going to be waiting
Mondays procedure produced a little over 1200 scalp grafts. About 720 were placed in the 2 scars and 500 grafts were placed along the hairline and top to blend some density into the sides. Dr Cole used primarily a .8mm punch for removing most of the donor grafts. The current hairline was OK but it did need a little softening. Both PRP and Acell were used. Based on those numbers, we have about 40 grafts per cm2 in the scars. At this point (day 3) everything seems to look good. For those who have had a HT, they will probably agree the most difficult part is the local anesthesia. Because of all the scar tissue I have from previous procedures, I was expecting it to be quite uncomfortable. The use of a blunt tip cannula was used to limit the discomfort and I have to say it was a big improvement over my previous procedures. 

As for my experience with Dr Cole and his staff, I have nothing but great things to say. My experience was nothing less than what I would expect for anyone going though procedures like this. His staff was friendly, professional, and genuinely concerned for my comfort and care. Dr Cole spent a very large amount of time with me pre-procedure going over our goals and expectations. He does the entire graft removal and recipient cuts. He did do some of the graft placementhow much I dont know. I was there for almost 10 hours so there was a lot to remember. We spent a good amount of time discussing the HT industry. Overall I received a pretty good education on the science of a Hair transplant. 

As time goes on, Ill update this post with photos of my progress and hope to answer any questions people may have. 

Photo 1 - #2 cut
Photo 2 - Pre-procedure
Photo 3 - haircut I'm hoping to achieve and area on top we grafted as well. 
Photo 4 - Day 2 donor site. 

Thanks for reading

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## El Nino

Good luck with the results NEguy. 

I don't blame you for not trying and risking a scar revision.

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## topcat

Look forward to seeing your updates, best wishes on achieving the outcome you hope for.

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## Spex

well done and all the very best - Heal and grow well!  :Cool:

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## gillenator

I wish you the best as well NEguy.  Your scalp then did not have the laxity for a revision or did you just not want to risk the same thing happening?

Getting 40cm2 into the scar is a great start.  Hopefully, most of the grafts will survive.  I agree that two sessions of FUE will be needed.  Please keep us in the loop.

Thanks for sharing your case with us and I personally wish you the very best in the results.   :Wink:

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## northeastguy

Thanks Guys. I'll update with some pics at Day 7. Gotta say the PRP leaves a mess. Now that most of the stuff is removed I can really see the scars. He really packed them in. Little raised and red at this point which is to be expected. I started using Aloe gel today on all the grafted areas to help with the redness and healing....I'll be using that going forward. For the last few months I've been taking Biotin 5000mcg, tocomin suprabio Vit E, and MSM. I did stop 10 days prior to procedure but started back up few days ago. Sorry Top, no liver for me! I will say my hair is growing outragously fast. it's already at 1/8" and its only been 4 days post. Once I get to 1/2" I'll be all set till the grafted hair grows. man if there was only a way to bypass the 3 month dormant stage. 

@ gillenator.... I did inquire about doing a revision but the answer I got was it may be 50% smaller or 50% bigger. Plus I have 2 scars. If I did them is sections which was suggested by the NY doc it would take me 5 sessions with 8 months between revision. A lot of people are getting great results with grafting so it seemed the best approach for me. Besides, I just didn't want to go through the strip healing again.  Been there 5 times. I was done. I had a good donor supply for FUE plus can always tap into Beard for filler if I need.

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## ejj

looks good , look forward to the updates , the aloe defo helps i got a plant and break the leaf off , really helped the donor area heal 
now just the long wait !

all the best 

ejj

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## Winston

Looks good, youre in good hands with Dr. Cole. Thanks for keeping us posted  and I look forward to seeing your progress.

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## northeastguy

7 Days post-op.... so far so good. Bottom scar is a little angry as you can see. Both are very raised compaired to the pre photo's. Obviously way to early to evaluate the donor area but there's a good look at a large quantity of them. Have to say it's nice to actually feel hair in the scar areas.... To bad I'll be saying by to them shortly.

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## CIT_Girl

Northeastguy,

Thank you for your nice comments. Your scar area is healing well and looks fine for the first week post-op. We are glad that you had a pleasant experience here at our clinic. We look forward to seeing more photos in the next few months.

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## ron solo

Good luck buddy!  Your story is VERY similiar to mine, so if you don't mind..I'm very interested in this process.  Hopefully I'll be doing it soon myself and could use any advice or knowledge that you have gained from this experience.  Take care!

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## northeastguy

Thanks Ron.... Feel free to ask me anything you'd like. Sorry your in the same position I'm in. Hopefully this turns out the way I hope and it will be a good alternative to many of those in our situation. It's not a quick path but with the right help and a little patience I'm feeling quite confident. 

Today is day 21... sheading much of the hair at this point. I've included a few photo's including inside and outside light. Top scar is still slightly raised but improving each day. Bottom scar is being a bit stubborn. I've started adding a little antibiotic ointment and hydrocortizone cream 2%. Working close with Dr Cole and seems it's going to be a wait and see approach at this time. Keeping a close watch on it and as long as I see a slight improvement each day I'll be fine. Just wasn't expecting it to be this red and raised at this point post procedure. Donor still looks very good and areas along hairline and top where he grafted looks very natural as well.

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## northeastguy

I am at Day 30 today and other than the slight redness which is taking it's time, most everything is going as planned. Photo's include the upper and lower scar as well as a shot of the back to show a little of the donor area. After a couple more weeks my hair should be long enough to hide the scars again. 

My plan is to still go as short as I can with my haircut once this is completed. Realisticly I am looking at a 2nd session and possible Laser to smooth out the texture and blend color between my scalp and scars. I haven't ruled out the use of SMP in the far future if others outcomes continue to show positive results.

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## northeastguy

Only used aloe on the donor area for first week or so. Healed very fast. No signs of dotting at this point. Lower scar I've used antibacterial ointment and hydrocortisone cream..... not much helped. Decided to leave it alone and eventually it has improved. It is still slightly raised and red at this point but improved.

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## Stevie R

Hey Northeastguy, looking good man. How is the growth coming? What did you take before the surgery again to help? Is your lower scar improving? Is the upper one pink? I really think that the scars will be difficult to make out at your current length at the end of this and it seems that they were placed in a perfect angle...Anyway man hope all is well.

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## northeastguy

Update....

Right now I am just over 2 months so 1 more to go before I start seeing some growth. Really not much to report regarding photo's so I'll save those for month 3. The top scar is basically returned to its normal texture and condition. the bottom scar has improved greatly. the right side is flush with the scalp and the left is only slightly raised. Still slightly red. Interesting to note. If I press out that aspect of the scar, it actually flattens out for a while. I feel pretty good it should return to it's original state over the next month. If not, I'll address it at that point.

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## Stevie R

Hey Northeastguy. how those scars looking? Any hairs of yet? Have they flattened out? Is the bottom one back to the original color? Have you looked into the cortisone shots? Anything new to report? Well hope you start seeing hairs soon, take it easy.

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## northeastguy

> Hey Northeastguy. how those scars looking? Any hairs of yet? Have they flattened out? Is the bottom one back to the original color? Have you looked into the cortisone shots? Anything new to report? Well hope you start seeing hairs soon, take it easy.


 Nothing to report yet in terms of hair growth. To soon. It'll be 3 months on 9-18.... although I will say I have been hoping to see some early growth. Had the FUE's been done on virgin scalp I'd be totally confident at this point. Because it is scar work I have to say there is a little anxiety to the whole process. Top scar is completely returned to normal. Bottom is still slightly pink and raised at certain points. I will look into cortisone shots come November if there is no impovement.

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## Stevie R

Hey Northeast Guy, I  am sure you will be fine as Cole's work looks legit. Sorry if I ask a lot  of questions, just trying to figure out the whole redness thing and all so I know what to expect. Also go slow with the cortisone as I may have told you as it did shrink my up quite a bit my scar may be different than yours, also ask about the Elocon cream...I explain all the sites in the others forum website you know the one. I'm exited for ya though man.

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## Stevie R

Oh and Northwest guy I almost forgot, did the hair grow back in the area he took them from, the acell thing, I mean did you regrow those beard hairs and that scalp hair? Thanks again.

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## northeastguy

I won't really know if I got any type of donor regeneration for some time. First problem is getting in there to evaluate myself is difficult.... my hair is longer right now. Also, I am hoping to see Dr Cole this spring for a follow-up. I'll let him do a full evaluation on that. Very hard to see any white dotting even when I'm looking for it.

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## ejj

think it takes longer to grow in scar , i still have hair pokin through at 16 month post op , know what you mean about trying to see things , its in an awkward place difficult trying to arrange mirrors to see the back of your head !

all the best 
ejj

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## Stevie R

How many do you think are coming in at this point ejj? Do you think that hairs from triothetic closure may take just as long? I was told that it may take 2 years or longer for the hairs to grow through and it seems about half the docs agree and I think the ones that don't may just be trying to get me in their chair, what do you guys think, or do ya know? Thanks again fellas.

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## ejj

theres a few still breaking the surface , i too was told can take up to 2 years, and  2 yrs also with a tricho closure  
hope this helps 
ejj

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## Stevie R

Thanks ejj, I figured it was true and that is good news as I may not need as many FUEs to fill er up, my middle and much of my left has so many hairs growing through it is very hard to find, it is also the smallest part and flattest. I hope that when my far left and right flatten out more and thus shrinking a bit that more hairs will grow through, that would be great. Yet everyone I have talked to (HT docs, dermatologists, and 2fraxel ladies) say it will shrink. But thanks again ejj.

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## Stevie R

Can't wait to see them updates man but thought this would cheer ya up I saw another guy with a scar that seems bigger than yours and his result looks good check it out http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...&enterthread=y gotta figure man the darkest hour is just before the dawn, another pass and I would say he is fixed.

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## ejj

Hi Stevey

All ok got back last night will update soon as get pics from clinic .

Northeast guy , keep the updates coming all the best 

ejj

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## northeastguy

Thanks ejj... I'll update on day 90... I'm going to see what I can do about getting some good photos but may need some help on that. Glad to hear your most recent procedure went well... Looking forward to seeing those photos!

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## northeastguy

I'm a little late with my 90 day update.... I have attached a few photo's. I'm expecting to start seeing some good growth over the next month or 2. Still no white dotting that is visible even under inspection. Not that I can see anyway. My hair is now back to the length that hides the scars..... at least till there is good growth to attempt a shorter cut. 
Top scar looks good in terms of color and texture. the bottom one is still a little pink  and raised. and I'm going to use a silicone base product for now. I'll look into cortisone injections down the road if there is no improvement and once the grafts have grown.

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## northeastguy

I should also say that the work we did around the hairline is coming in nicely...

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## Stevie R

Looks good so far man, seems that the bloodflow is really helping that scar tissue's color out. It will be exciting as time moves along, thanks for the update NEguy.

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## northeastguy

Well I wasn't really planning to post any new updates untill my 4 month mark but I am seeing some great growth at this point and wanted to share some photo's. The pics are of my upper scar and I also included a nice before shot. The lower scar has rediculous growth and I wonder if it's because it stayed pink and had good blood supply the entire time? I'll post photo's of that at 4 months.

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## Stevie R

Good stuff NEguy, thanks for showing us the before pic as we can see the improvement you have made thus far. The left side I don't think you can even tell a difference between the HT hairs and the real hairs, is the scar thinner on the left where you took the pic? Looks great though man and I think the scars color looks even better than the previous weeks, one more pass and I think you will have that 1 grade for sure.

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## John P. Cole, MD

Coming along nicely.  It has been my experience that grafting into strip scars really does improve the color.  Grafting can also help reduce the chronic pink color that often results from strip harvesting in some individuals.  Hypopigmented scars gain a more normal appearance too.

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## northeastguy

Thanks Doc for chiming in..... I am at 4 months now. I have a few photo's that show the upper and lower scar. I also posted new cuts with #5 guard (formally #6 was my limit.) at the top and blended down to a #1 guard at the bottom. As far as the scar grafting goes, I'm getting great results and only assume there will be more growth and healthier shafts as time  goes on. One thing I notice mostly because my hair over the last 4 months has never been this short is the areas outside of the scars that have decreased density. I am thinking this might be a form of permanent shock loss from the previous strip surgeries? It is this issue that has me thinking of using some aspect of Tricopigmentation to ultimately blend all the work we do together. Still very early and still have another procedure with Dr Cole before I make a decision on that.

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## Stevie R

Wow bro, that looks great! I am happy for ya and only 4 months, another year and you will be done for good. At this point though no one would ever notice those scars at a 2 guard, must feel great for ya, thanks for uploading those pics man, take care.

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## Stevie R

True story NE guy, but what grade are you at...it looked like a 2 grade...

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## northeastguy

she uses a #5 at the top and blends it down to a #1 at the bottom.

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## Stevie R

Since the lowest you wanna wear your hair is a 1 guard I feel you almost have an advantage with two scars as the eye doesn't focus on either one if that makes since. If that is a 1 at the bottom then I have been covering my scar with a 1 guard not a 1 1/2 so that's good news but still it looks like it is close to a 2 guard to me by the scars..... but either way it doesn't matter as it is coming along nicely and I think another round will end the HT thing for ya for good, how much more growth can be expected? If 50 percent more or so I think you may be able to take it down to a 1 guard after this scar grafting...

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## northeastguy

On December 18th I'll have hit the 6 month mark. My last haircut I was able to take my hair down with a #4 guard. Prior to the Grafting I was able to use a 6 guard and that's about it. All in all, good progress. 
The top scar remains pretty flat and the color is good. Bottom scar is still slightly raised but the color has improved somewhat. My plan right now is to use a derma roller for a while to see if I get color improvement. I tried using silicone gel but it makes to much of a mess. After 8 months I'll consider seeing a plastics MD to do Steroid injections in the scar if he feels it will improve the scars height. Another option is to do nothing with the scars since they are going to go another round of grafting. 
I'll take some photo's after my next cut. I may consider taking my hair down with a 3 guard at the 8 month period but I notice a lot of inconsistent density from the strip surgery's so it might be hard to hide that. This is were I think Trico might be helpfully if I still plan to use a 1 guard. I can't see any other option to blend the density other than using a large number of beard grafts and right now I don't think that's a road I want to go down. Times on my side right now so no need to rush my options at this point.

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## Artista

WOW, Northeast'  Dr Cole did a fantastic job,,it is obvious that those scars will be somewhat taken care of

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## topcat

Personally I would probably opt for beard hair if you have the donor, otherwise it is looking much better at this point.

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## Artista

Topcat, I certainly agree.  Maybe Northeast is comfortable with how his scalp improvement has developed.

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## gillenator

> On December 18th I'll have hit the 6 month mark. My last haircut I was able to take my hair down with a #4 guard. Prior to the Grafting I was able to use a 6 guard and that's about it. All in all, good progress. 
> The top scar remains pretty flat and the color is good. Bottom scar is still slightly raised but the color has improved somewhat. My plan right now is to use a derma roller for a while to see if I get color improvement. I tried using silicone gel but it makes to much of a mess. After 8 months I'll consider seeing a plastics MD to do Steroid injections in the scar if he feels it will improve the scars height. Another option is to do nothing with the scars since they are going to go another round of grafting. 
> I'll take some photo's after my next cut. I may consider taking my hair down with a 3 guard at the 8 month period but I notice a lot of inconsistent density from the strip surgery's so it might be hard to hide that. This is were I think Trico might be helpfully if I still plan to use a 1 guard. I can't see any other option to blend the density other than using a large number of beard grafts and right now I don't think that's a road I want to go down. Times on my side right now so no need to rush my options at this point.


 So nice to hear of your continued improvement Northeastguy and I still think you have more potential for improvement as the months pass!

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## ejj

looks fantastic , not a better feeling than thinking those strip scars are hidden  , the tissue appears to almost normalise with the hair growth , its like getting back to normal !

all the best 

ejj

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## northeastguy

@ Gillenator ..... I can only hope your right. If I've had this much growth at 6 months, I'm excited to see what I'll end up with at 12. I'm also going expect the texture of the hair to improve. It's a little fine right now but as it grows I'm thinking I should see some improvement. 

@ Topcat ..... Far from making this decision yet but I'm still not 100&#37; sold on using high quantity of beard hair. Both the longterm healing of the face and the how it will blend with my existing scalp hair are my hold ups. Not sure if others have seen the show airing on The Discovery Channel. It's called Beard Wars. In a nutshell it a bunch of guys competing for the longest beard. Really bad show but My point? every one of them displays how vastly different in texture, wave, and color beard hair is to scalp hair. Honestly I'm hoping we can tap into scalp hair one more time and be done. I do expect to use beard hair in my second pass at some level. How much will be up to Dr Cole. Right now I have time. 

@ Artista ..... thanks for the compliment. I am happy so far but I'm looking to make these scars history. I still have a couple more steps and one includes another pass with FUE. Ever paint a room and after the first coat you look and think wow that looks great, I may not even need another coat! Then you go ahead and hit it with a 2nd coat and the improvement is night and day..... that's what I'm shooting for. Right now I toy with options I might have after the 2 procedures mostly because I have a lot of time between now and then. 

@ ejj ..... your completely correct. It's nice knowing that no one has a clue there are big scars back there. I do notice the difference in scar color as time passes. especially the top one. it almost completely blends.

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## John P. Cole, MD

Everyone's reaction to their strip scars is different.  Some don't care.  Others have wide scars that developed after several strip procedures and they are bothered by them.  The seek action.  The desired action also varies.  I had one patient with a wide strip scar that we placed 200 hairs off the side of his thigh back in 2003.  He had a very nice yield, which is totally unpredictable with body hair transplants (except Beard hair), and was completely satisfied with his results.  He quit treating the scar and turned to moving body hair to the top even though his strip scar had only a thin covering of thigh hair.  Then there are other guys who want the scar to look similar to what it did prior to surgery.  These guys will often make multiple passes although they are progressively smaller in size because there is less surface area to treat.  Then you have everyone else in between these extremes.  

You should have more growth to come, but you should also be over 50% by now.  Scars do accept grafts quite well.  Scars take on an appearance more like native skin and if the scar was red, grafting is the only way to reduce the color typically.  

Beard works very well and is quite predictable.  the problem with beard hair is that it can look so wavy and coarse that some people don't like the appearance of beard hair.  Some love it.  Again, the reaction has two extremes.  

I'd give it to the one year mark and then decide.

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## ejj

Have you moved hair from the stomach area as i have plenty there and little on my chest ? i wonder if the yeild would be worth giving it a go , would  love to see some photos of the thigh hair if poss 

I saw Dr Panine  did a patient with strip were he removed underarm hair, either arm ,two strips i always wonder what happened as never got an update any thoughts on this ?

thanks Dr 

ejj

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## northeastguy

Thanks for the input Doc. 6 months and all is going great..... Had my second cut with a 4 guard and it looks much better than it did just 2 weeks ago. I want to say it looks like 80% growth at this point but I'm sure I'm being a little optomistic or just extremely happy with how it's progressing at this point. It's impressive since we used 1 and 2 hair grafts. I have no regrets with my decision to graft into the scars rather than do a revision. I've included a video but the quality is so so. I'll give it a go outside in some sunlight soon.

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## northeastguy

..... well if anyone knows how to upload a film clip, let me know.

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## northeastguy

Here it is....

http://youtu.be/LuxG4OIeVQ8

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## VictimOfDHT

Looks really good especially in the pic on the right. Just wondering, what was the total number of grafts from the 5 previous HTs?

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## inspects

> Looks really good especially in the pic on the right. Just wondering, what was the total number of grafts from the 5 previous HTs?


 I also agree, looks Great, Dr Cole did a fantastic job...!

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## ejj

said it earlier , the growth looks great , you look normal again , outstanding result !

ejj

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## northeastguy

> Looks really good especially in the pic on the right. Just wondering, what was the total number of grafts from the 5 previous HTs?


 I had about 900 grafts taken from the lower scar using micro and mini grafts in the early to mid 90's. then a little over 2000-2100 grafts done via FUT over 2 procedures from 98-2001. I may be off by a year or so. As far as I'm concerned, 5 procedures and only 3000 grafts is a complete waste of donor.... And I had a great donor supply. By far the worse is 900 grafts over 3 strip procedures.

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## Artista

Amazing work -thank you for sharing

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## chrisdav

Well done Northeastguy.

Looks much improved.

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## 534623

> I also had an interest in using PRP and Acell to increase the survival rate of the grafts. 
> 
> From 1993 to 2000 I had 5 total strip procedures leaving me with 2 large scars on the back of my head. Top scar was 19.5cm x .5cm and bottom was 15.5 x .5cm.


 Hey northeastguy,
unfortunately, I have a similar story to report ...

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/...ip-Scars-1.jpg

The only differences are

- that I started with FUT procedures 2 years earlier than you;
- having 1 scar more than you;
- and at least 2 scars of them are -interestingly- not as wide than your scars - but still wide enough for being "just pencil thin scars".  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Anyway, 3 days ago I have started (experimental) to fill them up with at least 10 test grafts into the fattest scar (visible in the photo on the left side, buttom scar). Even if these grafts grow indeed in the scar, and even if I would fill the scar up completely (~35-40 grafts/cm&#178; or so), I doubt that the scars will be "undetectable" when I wear the hair very very short as I wear it now.
The problem is, I think, that as soon as I get a scar, my scars are always almost WHITE like snow.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

So the only way I can see to fix such scars safely, is to fill them up with normal scalp hair (as tested now with 10 scalp hair grafts) and tattooing them thereafter - or doing nothing and wear my hair always long enough until I die. On the other hand, until recently, I have never ever shaved my whole head, but in the meanwhile, I've just start liking my new style ...  :Embarrassment: 

So, what?

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## Stevie R

Man that looks great, I think your off on the grades though, that looks like a 3 grade or lower!  :Wink:  Honestly, if your color is good I think after next time you can get down to a zero if you wanted, but I know you don't care about that so I'd say your definitely gonna get what you want man, I saw a little space but the linear line is long gone brother, congrats. What percentage does Dr. Cole think you have growing at the moment? Cause if you got only like 60 percent, you may be fixed without a second session man, anyway, great stuff, keep us in the loop.

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## VictimOfDHT

> I had about 900 grafts taken from the lower scar using micro and mini grafts in the early to mid 90's. then a little over 2000-2100 grafts done via FUT over 2 procedures from 98-2001. I may be off by a year or so. As far as I'm concerned, 5 procedures and only 3000 grafts is a complete waste of donor.... And I had a great donor supply. By far the worse is 900 grafts over 3 strip procedures.


 
Well, don't feel bad. My first HT was done by the thieves and crooks at Bosley long time ago. Believe it or not those bastards were more than happy to do 300 grafts and charge me $ 3000 for it even though back then I virtually had a full head of hair except maybe less than 1/5 of an inch on either side of my temples.

I've had 5 HTs in the following 10 years after that and the biggest was 1700 grafts. The rest were all 700-800. The most recent one only a week ago (750 grafts). So, in total 6 HTs (including that small one at Bosley) but altogether around 5000 grafts. Luckily, I had thick black hair that hid the scar pretty well, well, until I came to H&W when dr.Wong brought it to my attention that the scar was actually wide (it was a result of HT done by another doctor). Thankfully, he fixed my scar when I had my HT with him a few years ago and even did more work on it -even though it wasnt that bad- last week when I went for another HT. Thanks dr. Wong.

But yeah, when you keep going in for smaller HTs it makes things harder and more frustrating. The thing is, there was no way in hell I was going to wait for my head to look bald before I started doing something about it.

I'm glad things worked out well for you and now you look you never got any HTs even though I know it must have cost a lot to just do the repair.

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## northeastguy

@434623 ... best of luck with your repair. I have no doubt the test will go as  planned. who is doing your work? Your absolutely correct in saying the scars will never be completely undetectable at a o guard....no way. I do believe SMP can play a big role in those who do want to go that short but it has to be a balance of both hair and smp....it's the only way a 3D effect is seen. I have no interest in going that short....don't have the head for it and don't want to show any signs of scars. I have no doubt after my second session with Dr Cole, I'll be able to comfortably get to a 2 guard and hopefully even a 1 (ultimate goal)....regardless, I always plan to have some look of hair. 
As far as your scars being white..... expect them to blend in tone once you have hair growing in them. over time, they will look similar to the surrounding scalp. It's amazing what a little blood flow can do.  keep us posted with your progress...

@ Stevie...... He feels I should have at least 50% growth at this point with improvement each month. 

@ Victim .... I don't feel bad, I'm pissed! Only thing that justifies things at this point is the fact Dr Cole has done wonders in the first stage of this process. It's first step toward freedom from the poor choice I made years ago. If there is one thing I want to come from this thread is to inform others in our situation that the scars do not need to stay. If a HT surgeon says to expect 30% growth in a scar, he means HE can only produce 30% growth in a scar and it's time to continue your search. I'm a Cole fan for obvious reasons .... he gets results. There are other very good FUE docs out there to choose from as well. Do your homework. My opinion? don't choose a strip Doc to do FUE..... As far as your choice to use Dr Wong for FUT.... He'd be one of my top choices. It just wasn't a road I wanted to go down again. Thanks for your input and best of luck!

----------


## Artista

Fantastic results !
 I spoke with Dr Cole's office today, 12/17/2012

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## 534623

> @434623 ... best of luck with your repair. I have no doubt the test will go as  planned. who is doing your work? Your absolutely correct in saying the scars will never be completely undetectable at a o guard....no way. I do believe SMP can play a big role in those who do want to go that short but it has to be a balance of both hair and smp....it's the only way a 3D effect is seen. I have no interest in going that short....don't have the head for it and don't want to show any signs of scars. I have no doubt after my second session with Dr Cole, I'll be able to comfortably get to a 2 guard and hopefully even a 1 (ultimate goal)....regardless, I always plan to have some look of hair. 
> *As far as your scars being white..... expect them to blend in tone once you have hair growing in them. over time, they will look similar to the surrounding scalp.* It's amazing what a little blood flow can do.  keep us posted with your progress...


 Thanks for your response.

Here is a better photo quality ...
http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/...-Scar-View.jpg

A few centimeters above the upper strip scar (click in the photo for full resolution!), there is a little white scar (no idea what happend), and interestingly, there is *a 3-hair FU* which grew out of this little white scar. Can you see it?
Anyway, unfortunatelly, the surrounding scar tissue, which surrounds the 3-hair FU, is still white like snow.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

And THAT exactly is my problem; I think that as soon as the strip scars are filled up with enough grafts (and hopefully the majority of them will grow in this useless tissue) - the only way to get rid of the white tissue, which will still surround the grafts, is tattooing (SMP) these areas somewhat with a correct/proper tone. We will see ...

----------


## topcat

Northeastguy looks really good at this point. I dont think you are going to need another pass or tattooing. I also agree with your 30% comment when a clinic says that they are speaking specifically about themselves no different when they say low yield on fue they speak of their own skill. Not a big deal for those that have been around the block but it does cause those with little to no information to sometimes make bad decisions.

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## SL

Congratulations Northeastguy, looks much improved.

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## Stevie R

@Northeastguy, every time I see your case it impresses me, any updates? Man, if it is only 50 percent growth thus far, I think a 1 may be within reach. I mean after seeing Bisanga's case on a guy with 412 grafts and a fairly large scar he was able to take it to a 1 guard with minimal signs of an HT, I think you can at least expect that, if not a better result due to color of the scar an all as Bisanga's case seemed to have started off with a much whiter scar than yours I think. I think your right though, if you find a top FUE doc that has done hundreds of repairs your in good hands. But it is impressing that just a few hairs can break up a scar like that but that is what I have been saying. It is a shame their is so few examples of scar repair cases, but the repair cases done within the last 3-5 years all seem much improved over the ones a few years prior, just as the FUE technique has been improved. I will be interested to see the scar wet at the year mark as well as seeing how low you can go, but I bet you'll get the result you want, couldn't have happened to a nicer guy! Lol

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## northeastguy

Thanks Stevie.... the best is yet to come! 

not much else to report. improvement every month. I'm still doing another final pass to blend the density as even and perfect as we can get it. There's no doubt the 2nd pass will be a much smaller session. From there I'll focus on blending the scar color and texture as needed. pulse dye laser, cortisone shots, maybe Recell? long way off and still doing research. but now that the scars don't prevent me to cut my hair short I have all the time in the world. Although I'm hoping to wrap this all up in a year and a half. 

One things for sure, the top scar is blending and healing far better than the lower.

Goal is still a 1 guard.

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## Stevie R

Well I don't know if you seen the recell scar results like here http://www.examiner.com/slideshow/am...slide=blank-21 on pictures 15 and 16 and others it is simply amazing. The doctors I have been talking to at separate clinics say that a better result can be expected on the scalp compared to anywhere on the body as the scalp heals better. They use the Co2 Fractional laser from what I understand to peel the top layer of skin off, approximately 0.02mm of skin and then spray on skin that they get from somewhere on your body, behind the ear, leg, hip, whatever you prefer but I am told behind the ear is best, and they spray recell on that also so you don't scar there. Everyone agrees it doesn't dislodge hairs yet I am still looking into that myself as you can never be too careful. However, I think this is it, I mean the biggest challenge in my opinion with fixing these scars is the color, and recell looks to eliminate the whiteness if you will in scars, then it is just a matter of placing the hairs in. Yet I think I will make sure my density is just right because I will have them recell my fue dots (if I can find any) at the same time they recell the scar. I ask if perhaps I can improve the scar even further by doing fraxel or the roller before the recell and it seems only if those shrink the scar, which perhaps they do a small bit, but not too much to worry about it as he explains that that shouldn't matter. I think the Feriduni scar case could have been much improved with recell, in fact invisible to the eye if his recell result would have been like that womans scar you see there at that link with the scar on her neck. Yet, I am not sure I will need it but I am researching it just in case, let me and everyone else if you find anything else out about the recell process, I find I have to dig deep as only 5,000 people have done recell from what I understand and that includes burns, scars, acne scarring and all sorts of other cosmetic damages. Yet this seems to be the far superior method of fixing scars, far ahead of fraxel or the derma roller in my opinion.

----------


## northeastguy

I've attached a couple new videos to show both scar area and side donor area. The videos aren't the best quality but they do help a bit. I did see a plastics specialist who does Fraxel regarding the slight raised lower scar. In short, he said to do nothing. Said it was only slightly raised and theres a good chance in may continue to resolve over the next few months. Said to give it a full year. Since I'll be doing a second pass with FUE, it will be much longer than a year before I look into this again. Good news I guess and maybe I'm being to impatient. In the mean time, I'll just use a dermaroller and see if that improves things while I wait to do my next procedure. Top scar looks unreal. I am having a hard time even finding it. Texture, color are all good. Keep in mind, I wonder if the fact that both scars were created by 2 very different Md's. One was a Dermatologist (top scar) and the lower was created by an ophthalmologist. Only makes sense since I have to believe that very little suturing is done by an ophthalmologist during their residency or fellowship.  :Mad: 

My latest cut in these videos is a 4 guard at the longest and a 1 guard at the shortest. 

Back - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU8O0245IKI

Side donor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xGetSEYqgk

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## sp8rky

coolio :Smile: ..

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## topcat

Huge improvement, good for you.

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## Stevie R

Ya man I can't see a thing, looks great. Do you think you can go lower? I bet you can, but no rush. I am happy for ya man, there is no reason to go lower but you may have 40 percent more growth brotha, that's awesometown I know you will get to your goal of a 1 guard at least. Thanks for the updates man your yet more proof that FUE is the right way to go, take it easy man.

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## inspects

Incredible results...big time congratulations....!!

You chose a good Doctor...!!!

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## gillenator

NEGuy, wow, what a journey that you are traveling.  Huge difference fron when you started repair.

I bet that you compare your first pre-op pics to the most current ones.  Your hair quality is good and makes a big difference.

So glad to see that you are realizing more and more freedom all along the way my friend.  :Wink:

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## northeastguy

Thanks all for the great complements. I'll update as things progress. Planning to see Dr Cole in early March to go over everything and our options for the second pass. Not sure when that'll be. Really depends on a number of factors, most important... when is a safe time to proceed.

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## northeastguy

@ Stevie.... It would be pushing it to go lower. After the second pass, I'm pretty sure I'll have a whole lot of options. Honestly, with a 4 guard right now, it looks pretty good. It's a nice clean look. No complaints here.

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## Stevie R

Hey Northeastguy how's it all coming along, any more updates on lower lengths? How is the derma rolling coming? Does Dr. Cole give you a year after the fue grafting before you can laser the scar? I know you said that the lower scar was real red and that it may still be pinkish but how is the upper scar doing? Can you see the scar if you look at it with two mirrors and the hair held up? Have you and Cole decided when your next pass will be? How early into the FUE does Dr Cole think that derma rolling is okay as well as creams such as mederna and lemon juice (I hear lemon juice improves the scars flatness and plus it smells good lol)? I cannot remember did your fur hairs get dipped in ACELL before hand? Anyway look forward to hearing updates about your case and once you get that second pass it will be real interesting as I have just seen like two guys post pics of more than one pass.

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## northeastguy

I had my follow-up visit with Dr Cole last week. He was happy with the growth and we discussed my goals and planned for a second pass. Looks like I'm going to need to tap into beard hair. I do have a good supply left on the sides of the head and we will be using that region as well. Seems as though I have no visible signs of scarring or thinning at all from the sides. After 5 strips and a large FUE session, I need and want to be carefully using any more of the back. Besides, I have a very good beard supply to tap into. I'm very comfortable using beard hair as long as it is blended with scalp hair. In this case, it should provide a very productive and cosmetically positive result. 
Top scar looks fantastic and has blended well with the surrounding scalp. Bottom one is slightly raised. We are not sure why but it is what it is. However, Good news is my hair stylist mentioned to me today my scar looks much whiter than it did. it's hard to get a perspective looking at something every day as apposed to every couple weeks. it was a positive statement on her part so I guess the scar IS improving but taking it's time.
Over the last few months I've looked into options to assist in the healing of the scar with the ultimate goal to blend it better with the surrounding scalp. Cortisone is one option. However, I came across this info which leads me to think this might be a better and safer option...

http://palomarmedical.com/treatments...r-removal.aspx

http://www.aboutlasertreatments.com/...cne-Scars.aspx

http://www.realself.com/question/cor...rtrophic-scars 

Dr Seckel's comments on the last thread are most interesting.

... the biggest question I have is doing FUE first or Laser. Or do ONE pass with cortisone now, then FUE. I'm leaning toward FUE first to wrap that process up then use the Laser to blend the scar. My concern is Doing Laser and having the second session of FUE cause the same effect, thus needing to do laser all over again. I'd rather do the FUE first then wrap up once with Laser. BTW, yes the laser is very safe on the hair folicles.... the depth of the laser does not go deep enough to harm them. I have confirmed this with multiple MD's and waiting to get a response from Palomar themselves. 
I was hoping to do the FUE session within the next month but My work schedule and personal commitments are preventing this. Looks like I'll wait a few and set something up in the summer. 

Topcat and others who used beard donor.... how many days after the procedure would you say it was hard to tell anything in the beard area was done? Obviously, the concern is returning to work too soon and having people staring at my face wondering what the hell I did.

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## topcat

Speaking just for myself I felt very comfortable going out for dinner the next day after each procedure. This is with have a couple hundred beard grafts extracted each time but in a fairly concentrated area. Here is a picture after 3 days to me it looks perfectly fine but others may differ. Good luck and I'm sure you will be fine.

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## northeastguy

That is unbelievible... worst case, a little concealer would do the trick if needed I suppose. a procedure on Friday should allow for a return on Monday I'm guessing. 

Thanks for the info...

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## Stevie R

Nice finds Northeastguy, and good to hear all is well with your repair thus far. I am impressed by the palmor laser, however, I still think recell may be the better route as it replaces new skin.... but I am definitely looking into it and it is better than anything else out there it seems except for perhaps recell...but we'll see. I would do this first then recell if needed but the recell doc said that would be pointless... what is the cost of it? When you planning on doing the second session, 9 months or a year? What does Cole say about using the laser after surgery, how long should you wait?  I don't think you will even be able to tell you will have beard in your scar though, can't wait to see some more pics from ya, thanks again for posting man.

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## Stevie R

Also Northeastguy what does Cole say about using the derma roller after the fue grafting, I mean is 4 months okay? Or 6 or should we wait more? Thanks again Northeastguy.  :Smile:

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## 35YrsAfter

> Also Northeastguy what does Cole say about using the derma roller after the fue grafting, I mean is 4 months okay? Or 6 or should we wait more? Thanks again Northeastguy.


 I work at Dr. Cole's office and I just asked him about the derma roller.  Dr. Cole sees a benefit in using it and the version available to the public can safely be used about a month after FUE.  The derma roller version available to doctors has longer needles and can slice long hair. Dr. Cole prefers to use this version on patients with a shaved head.  

-35YrsAfter works at Dr. Cole's office

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## Stevie R

Thanks for the info but just to be clear, you can use a derma roller over a strip scar that has been fue'd into just one month after?

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## 35YrsAfter

> Thanks for the info but just to be clear, you can use a derma roller over a strip scar that has been fue'd into just one month after?


 You should ask your doctor just to be safe.  Derma rollers come with needles of varying length. The common sizes are, .5mm, 1.0mm and 1.5mm.  On another forum, a guy posted his results after using the derma roller and they were impressive.  I want to give the derma roller a try myself.  Dr. Cole told me that in his opinion, there is a definite benefit in doing these treatments.  I think ACell and PRP derma-rolled could be very effective.  

I don't know if I'm allowed to post a link to a competing forum, but if you search Google:
derma roller needle depth hair transplant strip scar

You should be able to find the forum post near the top of the search.

-35YrsAfter works at Dr. Cole's office

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## Stevie R

Hey thanks for the info but I think I have already seen the case your talking about, is his name on the internet LM? The thing is is that my fue doc doesn't know much about the roller I'm afraid so he said don't do it for a year in the hopes that I would not mess anything up...but Northeastguy has been doing it for awhile now and he is not at his year mark and it hasn't effected his negatively....I can wait it's just my scar is a little raised being only 3 months out and a little red and when I used the roller before for only a month I saw great results, but I will wait if it i a risk.

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## jetfan11

NE guy,

Congrats happy for you. I'm in same situation.  I had 2 great transplants with Bosley and was thrilled.  3 months ago I went to a Dr Niedbalski in Seattle area and he completely butchered me. Lost 80% of my hair in frontal third most if not all were old  grafts.  I am praying for a hair miracle and shock loss recovery but I fear the worst.

In any event my scar is very visible raised and red.  Can I still get grafts into a scar that is only say a year old and raised and red?  Were your scar flat? stretched? Also what type of laser should be used so NOT to damage existing hair around the scar? I would probably go with Cole for sure.

Great results btw. I'm sure you'll look great with buzz and I hope to be in your shoes sooner then later.

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## samdee

Thanks for posting. Mind me asking, how did you live your life after this? did you always wear a hat? did you prefer getting the bald cut or letting the hair grow out a bit?

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## jetfan11

I'm not really living a life anymore. Have a very high profile job visisble job as well. I'm on the brink of nervous breakdown.  I've gotten through last 3 months on sheer will.  I use dermatch for my very visible scar toppiks for what's left of my hair and pray to God my hair grows back.  From what I've read 3 months to 6 months would be the time if I see recovery much of it will happen.  My only back up is to get beard hair or body hair put into the scar so I can cut my hair short with some shred of dignity.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> I'm not really living a life anymore. Have a very high profile job visisble job as well. I'm on the brink of nervous breakdown.  I've gotten through last 3 months on sheer will.  I use dermatch for my very visible scar toppiks for what's left of my hair and pray to God my hair grows back.  From what I've read 3 months to 6 months would be the time if I see recovery much of it will happen.  My only back up is to get beard hair or body hair put into the scar so I can cut my hair short with some shred of dignity.


 I found myself in a similar place.  My hair became very thin all over.  I was taking an antihistamine for chronic hives that had many complaints in the forums by users experiencing hair loss. They believed their hair loss was caused by this antihistamine drug.  I stopped using this medicine and began using Rogaine and my hair improved.  Eight years later my hair looks at least twice as dense as it did.  

After I read your post, I went down to the surgery area and asked Dr. Cole about your raised red scar.  He suggested consulting with a local doctor regarding steroid injections.  Once you have been able to improve the scar, you should have a consultation related to having the scar grafted into. Beard hair works very well for this when scalp donor is in short supply.

As far as the shock loss goes,  it nearly always grows back in the recipient area.  We had a patient in today who had a small area of permanent shock loss at the end of his strip scar.  It was about an inch and a half long and a half inch high.  May have been caused by restricted blood supply to the area when the scalp was pulled tight together after the strip was removed. 

Again, in most cases the type of shock loss you have experienced grows back.  Rogaine helps blood supply and so does exercise if appropriate for you.  Don't expose your head to the sun, don't smoke cigarettes and avoid stress as much as possible.  Recent studies show that coffee is beneficial to hair growth as well. 

-35YrsAfter works at Dr. Cole's office

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## topcat

jetfan thanks for posting your story. This is a serious procedure and not to be taken lightly.

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## jetfan11

35 years after,

Thanks for your response.  I will definitely do what I can with cortizone injections.  Also looking into laser.  I appreciate your story on the strip scar shock loss growing back but mine is recipient area shock loss.

Basically I had 1000 grafts placed in my frontal 1/3 which had ton of previous grafts.  Its 3.5 months later and very minimal signs of regrowth. I hope this Dr did not transect those follicles.

At 3.5 months post surgery do you still think I have a chance for shock loss recovery?

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> 35 years after,
> 
> Thanks for your response.  I will definitely do what I can with cortizone injections.  Also looking into laser.  I appreciate your story on the strip scar shock loss growing back but mine is recipient area shock loss.
> 
> Basically I had 1000 grafts placed in my frontal 1/3 which had ton of previous grafts.  Its 3.5 months later and very minimal signs of regrowth. I hope this Dr did not transect those follicles.
> 
> At 3.5 months post surgery do you still think I have a chance for shock loss recovery?


 I had shock loss once.  Back in the stone ages of hair transplantation, I had a scalp reduction which consisted of a 3/4 inch wide, 6 inch long strip being removed from the top of my head.  nearly all of the hair on top of my head went into the resting phase.  It was depressing for me to see my head look so bald at only 29 years old.  It took about a year for the hair to grow back. All of the hair grew back pretty much the way it was.

I doubt that the doctor transected the previously placed hair follicles.

BTW, I personally don't see growth after HT surgery until about the 6th. month.  Some see growth sooner.  Some don't see growth until around the 12th. month.

-35YrsAfter works at Dr. Cole's office

----------


## northeastguy

Hi Jetfan..... really sorry to hear about your setback. Any reason why you switched Doctors if you were happy with the results  you got from Bosely? Regardless, its water under the bridge at this point. My scars were not really raised. maybe the bottom one was slightly.  9 months later my top scar has healed quite well. The bottom has been a little frustrating. it is slightly raised mostly on the left side..... and we are really not sure why. It was also slightly pink for quite some time. Just 2 weeks ago my hair stylist told me the scar is much whiter now (that was her way of saying it looks more like my scalp color. Despite this slow return to it's original state, I got outstanding growth from the grafts. In addition to Cortisone injections for the scars raised state, look into Pulse dye laser, 1540 fractional laser, and IPL laser for redness. Here's a little info from a Plastics MD: Dr Seckel

http://www.realself.com/question/cor...rtrophic-scars

My plan is to graft one more time (may), let everything heal, then use laser to smooth and blend the tissue. I have been told by numerous Md's that both lasers I'm looking into will not harm the follicle. 

I hope this helps...

----------


## northeastguy

This should give you a good look at the scars pre-procedure.

@ jetfan..... Have you been using Rogaine foam? May aid in stimulating the regrownth of that shock loss. Can't hurt.

----------


## northeastguy

On MayTh I will be going to see Dr Cole for my 2nd and hopefully last session to graft into the scars.  It will be 11 months from the 1st session. This time all the focus will be on the scars only. I have limited donor from the sides of my head and the rest will come from the beard. After 5 strips, 2 scars, and a 1000 Fue procedure, my donor (mostly Back) is pretty much exhausted. I'm hoping to grab 2 and 3 hair grafts from the sides and all the singles from the beard. Pack those scars in one more time and make them history.

----------


## gillenator

> On MayTh I will be going to see Dr Cole for my 2nd and hopefully last session to graft into the scars.  It will be 11 months from the 1st session. This time all the focus will be on the scars only. I have limited donor from the sides of my head and the rest will come from the beard. After 5 strips, 2 scars, and a 1000 Fue procedure, my donor (mostly Back) is pretty much exhausted. I'm hoping to grab 2 and 3 hair grafts from the sides and all the singles from the beard. Pack those scars in one more time and make them history.


 I continue to wish you the very best in your repair journey and let us know how everything turns out.  Your making some great progress to date.  :Wink:

----------


## northeastguy

Thanks Gill for all your support. Very much appreciated. May 17th is the Date... noticed the typo on my post.

Few Photo's to post.....

First Photo is #6 guard. It was the shortest I could cut my hair. When wet, everything was visible. 

Second photo was taken just prior to being shaved down At Dr Cole's office for the procedure. It is a #2 guard cut. My ultimate goal..... shorter if we can make it happen.

Third photo was taken at Dr Cole's office 3 weeks ago. It is a #3-#4 guard cut.

----------


## jetfan11

NE Guy,

I am so happy for you. Going to cole to do the same thing.  Question for you the 3rd photo (where you look great btw) where your at 3/4 guard.  Exactly how many scar grafting surgeries with Cole and how many grafts total.  

Thanks again for posting and sharing very selfless.  Its a huge help to me personally.

----------


## northeastguy

> NE Guy,
> 
> I am so happy for you. Going to Cole to do the same thing.  Question for you the 3rd photo (where you look great btw) where your at 3/4 guard.  Exactly how many scar grafting surgeries with Cole and how many grafts total.  
> 
> Thanks again for posting and sharing very selfless.  Its a huge help to me personally.


 That is after 1 session of 720 grafts total in both scars. They were mostly single and double hair grafts. Knowing this, I should need no more than 1/2 that to create a consistent density within the scars and scalp around them. Say 200-350? Whatever it takes to wrap this up. obviously, that'll be up to Dr Cole once I'm in the chair and certain factors.....how many 2 and 3 hair grafts we get from the sides and the fact beard hair has a larger diameter than scalp hair.  

detailed image of the scars...

----------


## northeastguy

> NE Guy,
> 
> I am so happy for you. Going to cole to do the same thing.  Question for you the 3rd photo (where you look great btw) where your at 3/4 guard.  Exactly how many scar grafting surgeries with Cole and how many grafts total.  
> 
> Thanks again for posting and sharing very selfless.  Its a huge help to me personally.


 When are you going for your appointment?

----------


## jetfan11

NE guy,

Thats amazing to fill 2 scars with 7 just 720 grafts.  If you do 1 more pass you may have completely eliminated the scars altogether.  

Regardless if my shockloss comes back I am totally doing this with Cole.  I am petrified to use my donor hair as after this latest disaster surgery my donor looks a bit thin for sure.  

I wonder if Cole could do my entire scar with beard hair.  Oddly my beard hair is identical to my hair-coarse and wiry.  Plus they are super thick.  If they grew I could see them providing awesome coverage.  

If anyone from Cole's office knows if you could do an entire strip scar with beard hair I would love to know.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> NE guy,
> 
> Thats amazing to fill 2 scars with 7 just 720 grafts.  If you do 1 more pass you may have completely eliminated the scars altogether.  
> 
> Regardless if my shockloss comes back I am totally doing this with Cole.  I am petrified to use my donor hair as after this latest disaster surgery my donor looks a bit thin for sure.  
> 
> I wonder if Cole could do my entire scar with beard hair.  Oddly my beard hair is identical to my hair-coarse and wiry.  Plus they are super thick.  If they grew I could see them providing awesome coverage.  
> 
> If anyone from Cole's office knows if you could do an entire strip scar with beard hair I would love to know.


 I just asked Dr. Cole about only using beard hair to fix your scar.  He said 100% beard hair should be fine.  He recommends ACell with this type of repair.

35YrsAfter works at Dr. Cole's office

----------


## northeastguy

Thanks for chiming in 35yrs. I have to believe there are a lot of people out there who use beard hair only for scar grafting and do just fine. If you have it, and it's similar to your scalp hair, use it! Beard hair is larger in diameter than scalp hair so you actually get more coverage. 

Interesting video....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7vSrxvJwgA

I don't know this MD, but the information is helpful for those interested in grafting with beard hair. I can accurately say I did a hell of a lot better than 67-80% survival rate with the work I had done with Dr Cole. 35 yrs.... would be nice to see you guys put together an education video like this. maybe include the benifits of Acell?

----------


## Stevie R

Looking good NE guy, I bet this next pass can get you at a 1 guard. I have been noticing a lot of difference every week now as I am coming on 4 months, I will cut a little piece of around my donor area to a zero, about the size of a penny and see if I have any white dotting but I can't see any with a 2 guard and when I look as I pull back my hair, have you thought of doing that as well? Have you decided on doing recell yet or are you gonna go with the palomar laser? I was thinking of doing the palomar laser first then recell as those results look good with the palomar...not sure yet though...I was wondering though, you said the hairs at the bottom of your scar that go up give you hesitation when thinking about going down real low because they pop out at the eye and so on, have you thought about FUEing them out and then putting hairs in where they were? I bet this would be a good idea if the doc in in sync with ya, not that I can see it at a 3 guard or even a 2 and I realize you may not want a 0 but just for others out there that may be thinking the same thing, what do you think?

----------


## northeastguy

Hey Stevie..... I like the idea of shaving down a small area to a zero guard. I have no interest of ever going down to a zero guard at any point in my life so see no reason to test it. 1 guard would be it.........and that is long down the road. Besides, any white dotting can be fixed by grafting a beard hair into it. 
It's funny you mention extracting the hairs that are angled up along the lower scar and redirecting them. I have thought about it but doubt I'll go down that road. Not now anyway. The reality is, should I get to a 2 guard with absolutely no visible signs of scaring after I complete my second round and laser..... I'm a winner. 
Yes, I plan to use the Palomar laser.... It seems the best and safest option to debulk and blend the lower scar. I doubt I'll go down the road of recell. Don't think I'll need it after this particular laser.

----------


## Stevie R

Ya I hear ya, sorry for badgering ya on the 0 guard thing lol, but there are many dudes who have relatively small scars that are younger that want to go to a 0 guard, I at the moment don't have that desire but I may eventually so I will do recell in between my next FUE session, if i do another session, but I think the recell fixes look amazing and belive a 0 guard can be achieved. It's looking great though man, couldn't happen to a nicer guy!

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## ITNEVERRAINS

northeast guy,

I was there Friday for a little touch up, gotta agree 100% with the blunt tip, 1000% less painful! The staff was great, did 1300 FUE non shaven, 387 to front, the rest crown/mid scalp. Even put two beard grafts in my strip so I can see healing of beard, as well as taking to previous strips.

I'll keep track of your progress, I see 1000 beard grafts in my strips from Cole sometime next year.

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## jetfan11

> Hey Stevie..... I like the idea of shaving down a small area to a zero guard. I have no interest of ever going down to a zero guard at any point in my life so see no reason to test it. 1 guard would be it.........and that is long down the road. Besides, any white dotting can be fixed by grafting a beard hair into it. 
> It's funny you mention extracting the hairs that are angled up along the lower scar and redirecting them. I have thought about it but doubt I'll go down that road. Not now anyway. The reality is, should I get to a 2 guard with absolutely no visible signs of scaring after I complete my second round and laser..... I'm a winner. 
> Yes, I plan to use the Palomar laser.... It seems the best and safest option to debulk and blend the lower scar. I doubt I'll go down the road of recell. Don't think I'll need it after this particular laser.


 NE guy,

Gotta super important question for you. Aren't you afraid the laser will damage not only the hair follicles in the scar AND the surrounding hair follicles?  I want to do cortisone and laser before I see Cole but I am petrified the laser will destroy the hair around it.  For you it would be worse because you have hair growing out of the scar. 

Is this Palomer laser something you researched a lot if so who did you talk to?

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## jetfan11

> Ya I hear ya, sorry for badgering ya on the 0 guard thing lol, but there are many dudes who have relatively small scars that are younger that want to go to a 0 guard, I at the moment don't have that desire but I may eventually so I will do recell in between my next FUE session, if i do another session, but I think the recell fixes look amazing and belive a 0 guard can be achieved. It's looking great though man, couldn't happen to a nicer guy!


 Stevie,

I didn't think recell was offered in the US. Have you talked to anyone about it like a consultation? How do you know it would even work for ht scar?

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## Stevie R

Jetfan, it is not offered yet in America but I have talked to a couple recell docs in Germany, the UK and Australia. The results on scars I have seen are amazing, I have just seen one on a strip scar and the after pic was dark so I could not tell but it looked skin like, yet he did not fue before so their was a lack of hair. I have also seen a guy fix his fue scarring of approximately 100 dots to now not being able to tell by him putting in head hairs into the dots and then recelling the dots and no hair was lost do to the recell procedure. Also, many have done fraxel or even co2 lasers with no hair being destroyed so don't worry about that, yet you obviously need to go to a good clinic to make sure your in good hands. If you want the pics contact me here http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/c...lcache=5440142 on a personal message then I will send you pics via email of these cases if you like so  you can see the benefits of recell. But honestly a scar is a scar is a scar, I mean from what I have been told a HT scar is no different than others scars and the results I have seen from recell on scars are amazing, so don't buy into the BS that it only helps burn victims. Check out my thread here as I post a lot on recell, fraxel, co2, the derma roller and I give links to all the dudes who have had successful results as well as the reason why lasers (other than hair REMOVAL lasers) are not suppose to remove hairs. I think NE guy had an excellent find on the palomar, but I believe recell is better cause it sprays on REAL skin, your own skin. I am only debating whether to do palomar before recell to improve the results of recell, but I have not reached a conclusion to that yet. The key to fix this mistake in my opinion is A. getting a doc who has experiance doing scar grafting and gives the most limited scarring and B. getting the color of the scar to match the surrounding skintone which I belive only guys with light skin can acheive mos of the time. I am lucky that my hair is not going upwards at the scars bottom or top, I just need to fill in the scar (which is thin) then get the color perfect. I think the derma roller has helped my color and I did cortizone shots first which made the scar smaller and flatter, but dont do it unless your scar is raised as it can make your scar indented if it isn't raised which can be a problem to flatten out as opposed to a raised scar. Anyway if you are interested in those pics contact me, but I would suggest that you read that thread of mine and try to contact others who are knowledgeable on this as well but dont take a HT docs opinion as golden as they are HT docs not dermatologists.

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## 35YrsAfter

> getting the color of the scar to match the surrounding skintone which I belive only guys with light skin can acheive mos of the time. I am lucky that my hair is not going upwards at the scars bottom or top, I just need to fill in the scar (which is thin) then get the color perfect. I think the derma roller has helped my color and I did cortizone shots first which made the scar smaller and flatter, but dont do it unless your scar is raised as it can make your scar indented if it isn't raised which can be a problem to flatten out as opposed to a raised scar. Anyway if you are interested in those pics contact me, but I would suggest that you read that thread of mine and try to contact others who are knowledgeable on this as well but dont take a HT docs opinion as golden as they are HT docs not dermatologists.


 Good advice.  For me, the hypopigmentation of my shotgun scars makes them stand out slightly more than the lack of hair in them.  Perhaps one or two hairs per 4mm round scar will help eliminate the appearance of scarring.  I'm still a month or two short of seeing a semi-mature result of the beard hair grafts into my scars and crown.  There was one row of shotgun scars that three month ago I was not able to hide.  At this early point they are not nearly as visible.  I can feel the new hairs as they are beginning to grow.  They are coarser than scalp hair and should offer decent coverage.  My donor area below my jaw where 500+ grafts were removed remained slightly pink for longer than I expected.  The actual extraction sites are not visible, but a general pink appearance has remained for about two months.  Dr. Cole told me that ACell causes a lingering slight pink appearance.

Dr. Cole placed a new study on my desk on Friday related to a new treatment for creating a scalp environment that is more suitable for healthy hair growth.  It's one of those medical study reports that should be read several times.  Sounds promising and the study photos were encouraging.

35YrsAfter works at Dr. Cole's office

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## Stevie R

Interesting, can you tell us more about this report? Take a look at that link I sent where I write about recell and I leave many links their including many convos with a top recell doc and so on. I think if you hair around the scar is going the right way and angle then it is just about the color cause a good FUE doc should be able to match the density fairly easy and if your scar is not too big I think the scarring would be minimal if not invisible. Every scar case I have seen that is not fixed is do to the color not the density of th ehair in the scar, yet sometimes I think that the lack of hair can also add to the lack of color matching as I have noticed my hairs inside the scar make the scar less noticable in those parts and blend the surrounding scarred area, I only hope recell can make my case unnoticeable at a 0 like Daveone and the guy who got his FUE dotting fixed by recell, it's great you guys have a concern for fixing these scars I imagine the technology will continue to get better with more and more research.

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## jetfan11

StevieR,

Thanks for all that info much appreciated.

What's you personal scar situation and what methods have you done so far?

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## Stevie R

Hey man I did 125 grafts three months ago (315 hairs) into the scar wgich is about 4 1/2 inches long inbetween 0.5mm and 2 mm wide or so. Before that I did derma rolling for a month which helped the color fade and I used all types of creams and before that I did the cortizone shots which helped the width shrink in half in many parts and helped the color as well and made it flatter. My scar improves everyday as I am getting closer to the 4 month mark. In 6 month I will probably do recell, maybe 8 months, then I will wait 6 months and see if another pass if needed. The areas of my scar that are 0.5 mm look as they are almost fixed already with just 3 months growth and thin hairs within the scar, I can't wait til the hairs thicken up and I get a few months down the road to see my results as every guy with a scar my size who went to a top FUE doc who has done many scar cases can get it to a 1 guard or close to without a problem. Before my FUE pass I could go to a 2 guard and that is what I have now and it is improving, look at that thread I detail my whole story their as I have forgotton much of the detail of the cortizone shots and the derma roller and other things of that nature, take care.

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## jetfan11

Awesome stuff. Where did you get a derma roller? Ill buy 1 right now.

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## Stevie R

I think I got a Dr Roller and a 1.0 mm first then later I got a 1.5, but look at my thread to make sure, it was like 40 dollars I think.

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## Stevie R

I got it on Amazon.com.

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## gillenator

> I got it on Amazon.com.


 Who would have ever thought of purchasing a derma roller on Amazon and I bet it's much cheaper from there as well.

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## northeastguy

> NE guy,
> 
> Gotta super important question for you. Aren't you afraid the laser will damage not only the hair follicles in the scar AND the surrounding hair follicles?  I want to do cortisone and laser before I see Cole but I am petrified the laser will destroy the hair around it.  For you it would be worse because you have hair growing out of the scar. 
> 
> Is this Palomer laser something you researched a lot if so who did you talk to?


 I was assured by a few MD's and laser professionals that pulse dye laser or palomar fractional laser will not do damage to the existing hair or the follicles. laser hair removal and laser skin resurfacing is completely different. Talk to Md's in your area who do laser for skin resurfacing. I will continue to research this and assure myself that your concern is will not be a possibility in any way. Otherwise I will not risk it. I am reaching out to another MD as well as the makers of this laser. 

little information...

http://www.palomarmedical.com/treatm...r-removal.aspx

http://saveyourface.com/whatsnew/200...n-resurfacing/

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## jetfan11

Gotcha i have appts with well respected laser places in Seattle and 1 in New Your City.  I actually think Pulse dye was the 1 they rec in my initial consultation.  Still scary though I mean I have to get this scar in better shape before I let any hairs get put in them but at the same time if that laser causes hair loss its game over.  For you i wouldn't even risk it I mean you look great after that 2nd pass with Cole you'll be golden.

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## northeastguy

> Gotcha i have appts with well respected laser places in Seattle and 1 in New Your City.  I actually think Pulse dye was the 1 they rec in my initial consultation.  Still scary though I mean I have to get this scar in better shape before I let any hairs get put in them but at the same time if that laser causes hair loss its game over.  For you i wouldn't even risk it I mean you look great after that 2nd pass with Cole you'll be golden.


 Please update us on this thread after your appts. the feedback will be quite helpful. 

I don't remember or think my lower scar was raised at all. I don't want to have all this laser work done, go have the second round of FUE only to have the scar raise again. AS LONG AS ITS SAFE, I will have the laser done after the grafts have grown from the second session..... minimum 8 months post. It's strange, the scar 2 cm above it, looks great in all aspects. One of those things I guess.

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## northeastguy

> northeast guy,
> 
> I was there Friday for a little touch up, gotta agree 100% with the blunt tip, 1000% less painful! The staff was great, did 1300 FUE non shaven, 387 to front, the rest crown/mid scalp. Even put two beard grafts in my strip so I can see healing of beard, as well as taking to previous strips.
> 
> I'll keep track of your progress, I see 1000 beard grafts in my strips from Cole sometime next year.


 Glad your experience was a good one....  :Smile:

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## El Nino

> Thanks Gill for all your support. Very much appreciated. May 17th is the Date... noticed the typo on my post.
> 
> Few Photo's to post.....
> 
> First Photo is #6 guard. It was the shortest I could cut my hair. When wet, everything was visible. 
> 
> Second photo was taken just prior to being shaved down At Dr Cole's office for the procedure. It is a #2 guard cut. My ultimate goal..... shorter if we can make it happen.
> 
> Third photo was taken at Dr Cole's office 3 weeks ago. It is a #3-#4 guard cut.


 Looks 100 times better already NE guy, congrats.

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## Stevie R

Hey Northeastguy, I had a question for ya cause I don't remember if you did it or not, but did Dr. Cole use ACELL, did he soak the frafts in ACELL before placing them into your scar? The reason I ask is because a buddy of mine FUE'd his scar about a month back or so and he used ACELL and he says his scar feels much softer and the area is not raised, he can hardly feel a difference at all he says, which is great for just 1 month post op from my knowledge on the subject. So if you did do ACELL did you get similar results? I mean it is suppose to take a year or at least a few months for the full effect of ACELL to kick in right? I wonder about this for my next round of FUE's if I need them and whether I should do ACELL before recell...If you have no info on this I understand but maybe someone else would like to chim in then...The way I see it is that if ACELL makes the scar flatter and more skin like it just gets it that much closer to fixing the problem and then why does not everyone use ACELL then? My experiance is that the areas where my scar is most visable is in the areas where it is raised. Also when I did my cortisone shots into my scar not only did it flatten the scar alot but it also made it smaller so I can't help but to think the raisedness and width are some how interlinked, what baffles me is that I have not heard anyone before link the two as I am doing now, I wonder why....Thoughts anyone? Northeastguy? Dr. Cole?

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## jetfan11

> Well I don't know if you seen the recell scar results like here http://www.examiner.com/slideshow/am...slide=blank-21 on pictures 15 and 16 and others it is simply amazing. The doctors I have been talking to at separate clinics say that a better result can be expected on the scalp compared to anywhere on the body as the scalp heals better. They use the Co2 Fractional laser from what I understand to peel the top layer of skin off, approximately 0.02mm of skin and then spray on skin that they get from somewhere on your body, behind the ear, leg, hip, whatever you prefer but I am told behind the ear is best, and they spray recell on that also so you don't scar there. Everyone agrees it doesn't dislodge hairs yet I am still looking into that myself as you can never be too careful. However, I think this is it, I mean the biggest challenge in my opinion with fixing these scars is the color, and recell looks to eliminate the whiteness if you will in scars, then it is just a matter of placing the hairs in. Yet I think I will make sure my density is just right because I will have them recell my fue dots (if I can find any) at the same time they recell the scar. I ask if perhaps I can improve the scar even further by doing fraxel or the roller before the recell and it seems only if those shrink the scar, which perhaps they do a small bit, but not too much to worry about it as he explains that that shouldn't matter. I think the Feriduni scar case could have been much improved with recell, in fact invisible to the eye if his recell result would have been like that womans scar you see there at that link with the scar on her neck. Yet, I am not sure I will need it but I am researching it just in case, let me and everyone else if you find anything else out about the recell process, I find I have to dig deep as only 5,000 people have done recell from what I understand and that includes burns, scars, acne scarring and all sorts of other cosmetic damages. Yet this seems to be the far superior method of fixing scars, far ahead of fraxel or the derma roller in my opinion.


 Hey Steve,

I see you always posting on recell.  What did they have to say when you had your consultation?  You realize it's not available in the us right? I mean based off the photos I would get on a plane tomorrow if it worked like that.  What actual contact have you had with those folks? What did they say?

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## Artista

Amazing product

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## Stevie R

Okay so I have talked to a few clinics, there is one is particular I am just about set on. From what I understand the best we can expect is the scar being invisible, perfect in my opinion. What they do is take a biopsy form your ass, hip, head or wherever they offer and you like then they put that slice of skin into some formula or something and then they spray it on your scar after they hit the scar up with some type of laser, in this docs case that I like it is a kind of CO2 laser, but not the one you heard of. Then they rap your head for three days and your done and the results take up to a year to be in full effect, it also may be red for months, and yes I realize it isnt in the states but it is in Canada (I think) Europe, the UK and Australia. I dont know how much more info you want so look at my be patient thread here http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...y&STARTPAGE=10 in the Hair Transplant Repair column. In their I have showed my journey to fix this scar of mine as I learn as I go along. But in that thread I list just about every conversation via email me and the Recell doc I have been in contact with has said. I also post numerous articles and experiences with the recell which all have been good to my knowledge. Personally I hope the scar is perfect but expect to see something after 2 FUE passes and a recell session, I hope not but am thinking I may see a difference, not something others will ponder on but just something that is their if one looks hard enough something a little better than this http://www.hairlossexperiences.com/v...90&forum_id=26 but I am hoping better as my scar was smaller, I will have done two sessions and recell, so much more work than he did in this pic, but still I am trying not to get my hopes up too much, but every day it gets better as I will soon be 5 months post op. If you want to ask me questions about the Recell doc and where he is located send me a private message on that site as I dont know how to do it here, yet I am not positive he is the one just so you know, but I am 95 percent certain. Also, if you send me a private email in hopes to see pics of my scar I will do that as well, just let me know. But if I was you and if you did your FUE passes I would go get the recell done after some studying on it as I dont think there is anything to lose and if I understand the recell doc right I dont even have to shave my scarred area, which would be great.

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## Stevie R

Artista, do you have any experience with recell?

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## northeastguy

Been a long time and I am sorry for that. I did see another MD regarding the 1540 laser today and didn't really come away with a solid answer. He was completely honest which I wanted. He has done many treatments on mens faces and abdominal area and stated that none had any hair loss issues. With that being said, He did mention my situation was a little more delicate and would rather do a very small area on the scar first and evaluate it after a few weeks. He did state that the frequency of the laser used for scars is very different that that of hair removal. Again I am a loooooong way from this aspect of my treatment and will continue to gather information as the time passes. 

That being said, I see Dr Cole 2 weeks from this Friday for my second session. I'm actually getting a little excited as apposed to last time. I think the fear of it not working is no longer in the picture so I'm viewing it all a little different this time around. Hoping to pack those scars in one more time and begin the 90 day stopwatch to normalcy

Stevie.... He did soak the grafts in a solution. I know he is not a believer of keeping the grafts out of the body too long. The exact solution might be better explained by 35yearsafter. It helps fight off free radicals. Acell may have been in the solution as well but much of the product was applied to the scalp after the grafts were placed. Acell was mostly used for the donor area. PRP was used on the Recipient sites.

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## Stevie R

Thanks for the response Northeastguy, but ya I have gotten a lot of blank responses with the recell at least at the beginning but none lead to them saying that hair would be eliminated, just kind of a scrathing of the head as they have not tried to heal such a scar before. Yet I have only had doubt not any evidence saying it can knock out hairs and most guys on the recell side guarantee that no hair will be removed and all dermotoligists have said that it wont either, that hair removal is the only one that can remove hairs. I had the hair removal laser on my front hairs as I want a total reversal and even many of those grow back as I have been twice, so I am sure there is no risk but of course I may be wrong so I will no doubt ask these questions a few more time and a few more dermotoligists just to make sure. The question I have at this point is when will the redness subside, how much more hair will I get, how close in color is the scar and surrounding skin, that way I will know if I need recell first or a second pass before recell...though I think I will do a second pass because I am close to Feriduni now and will be leaving this continent soon as the FUE is more of a hassle than the recell with days after and it would e more of a pain to come back. From what I understand to do recell you don't even have to shave down, which is great but I am having a Skype consultation worth the doc in a few days to confirm that, but he did say on an email to me that he does not have to. But if I do do recell second I may do 1540 laser before I do recell although IDK yet.

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## Artista

Hi Stevie..to answer your question..No I have no experience or needed with the ReCell treatment (thankfully) 
I remembered hearing of it before..the photos that you have posted are great, and the article sounds good. 
"Back in 1992, Fiona Wood and Marie Stoner, a medical researcher, developed a groundbreaking new implement of medical science. Called ReCell, the spray-on skin aimed to revolutionize the healing process for damaged human skin...."

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## 35YrsAfter

Hey northeastguy:
It was great meeting you Friday.  Thank you for being an encouragement in this forum to other men in a similar situation regarding scar repair.  I shot some video of our surgical tech running a comb up the back of your head over the area that was once bare scar tissue.  It's truly amazing how grafting into a scar, improves scar tissue appearance aside from the hair growth itself.  At this point really, the only issue is one of increasing the density of hair growing in your scars a little more to match the surrounding hair.  I hope your procedure last Friday exceeds all of your expectations.

While you were at our office, I was stunned while listening to you tell me how you were discouraged by "experts" related to expected FUE yield.  One doctor even told you that FUE into scar tissue would be a complete waste of money.  Also, I hadn't considered that a doctor would offer FUE as a marketing gimmick to get someone in the chair so they could then try to persuade them into having a strip procedure.

35YrsAfter works at Dr. Cole's office

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## Artista

Ive always respected Dr Cole and his achievements since I had first learned of his works. 
'Northeastguy' is a friend of mine and we have talked together on his experiences. 35years' this goes out to  Dr Cole..keep up the great work Dr and I look forward to an update of your ongoing research with Acell.

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## topcat

Yes 35 years and this point bears repeating as I have spoken to too many guys that went in thinking they were having FUE only to be told at the very last minute after time was arranged, expenses were paid, deposits were made that they don’t seem to be a candidate for FUE after a few extractions and at that point they were told strip is the only option. This is what happens when you are dealing with a doctor that has a very low level of skill or simply does not want to perform that particular procedure for whatever reason. To put a patient in this position is unconscionable and in my opinion only a scumbag would do this and that would include the rep. I would also add that anyone that would associate with those that would do this can probably consider themselves the same, scumbags. If this is a negative message so be it, we all have our own opinions and frankly sitting around boozing it up and talking about all the medications one is taking I find to be 100 times more negative as those that partake seem to like to toss that phrase of being negative around so much. If you ever find yourself in this position just get up out of the chair and leave. You simply can’t make a rational decision under those circumstances. Leave, go home and think first.

Good to hear the result in this case posted by NEguy has turned out well as it is good for everyone and hopefully it makes the industry better at least for those that are truly trying.

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## northeastguy

Hey all. I had the pleasure (except with the lidocaine injections) Of being with Dr Cole and his staff on Friday. Just a good group of people. We made a second pass with little over 200 grafts to the lower and upper scar. We again used only scalp grafts since I had enough donor on my sides to do so. All the grafts were soaked in an Acell solution and each donor site was injected with viscous Acell gell. This limits the solution from oozing out. We also treated the lower scar with steroid injections to see if we can settle it a little. I'll know more in time as the healing goes on. Plan is to see how this all blends and use beard grafts to even out the density. 
All in all it was a small procedure but should result in more improvements. Far less involved compared to the first procedure. 

35 yrs.... it was nice meeting you and enjoyed the conversations. I'm looking forward to seeing those videos. As I mentioned and Topcat would clearly agree..... people need to do their homework and research as many outcomes of FUE and Strip as they can. This is not something one should rush into. My philosophy is that anyone considering a transplant should do the Big 3 for 1 full year and during that time research what is best for them. This allows them to halt the balding process, possibly regrow or strengthen fine or lost hair and establish a better long term plan. Most importantly it prevents any rushed decisions. 

pictures were taken in Dr Cole's office and include pre procedure 11 months ago at a #2 guard, 11 months post at a #2 guard. and 3 days post op of lower scar. No concealers or modifications done. just hi res images...

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## gillenator

NEGuy,

Congrats again on this latest procedure.  The area looks very clean post-op and not traumatized.  I like that it was not overly packed which will promote the yield overall.

Thanks again for the ongoing updates and pics.  And as always, I wish you another great result and yield!  :Wink:

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## Artista

NE'Guy  great photos,,i cant wait to see the progress!!

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## Stevie R

That's looks great bro, I don't think anyone would notice, I wouldn't notice unless you said "hey can you see my scars?" I think one more pass and you got a 1 guard, then it just comes down to recell or whatever skin treatment you do and if the white dotting blends in or not if you ever want a 0 guard. I know you don't so I would say your fixed already and it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, I am happy for ya and thanks for the updates.

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## Granastasis

Nice work man.

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## 35YrsAfter

> Hey all. I had the pleasure (except with the lidocaine injections) Of being with Dr Cole and his staff on Friday. Just a good group of people. We made a second pass with little over 200 grafts to the lower and upper scar. We again used only scalp grafts since I had enough donor on my sides to do so. All the grafts were soaked in an Acell solution and each donor site was injected with viscous Acell gell. This limits the solution from oozing out. We also treated the lower scar with steroid injections to see if we can settle it a little. I'll know more in time as the healing goes on. Plan is to see how this all blends and use beard grafts to even out the density. 
> All in all it was a small procedure but should result in more improvements. Far less involved compared to the first procedure. 
> 
> 35 yrs.... it was nice meeting you and enjoyed the conversations. I'm looking forward to seeing those videos.


 northeast guy:
I finished and uploaded the video today.  You can see it HERE

-35YrsAfter works at Dr. Cole's office

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## northeastguy

came out pretty good ..... I don't have much to share at this point. All I can say is I healed extremely fast. Thanks to the non-shaven technique I was out in public with no hat 1 week later and there was no sign of anything done. All I needed was a tad bit of concealer on the sides where we took the grafts. My hair was extremely short and not really ideal for the non shaven technique but they worked with me. I'll post some detailed photos at month 3 and month 4 at a lower guard cut and see how things improved.
I also got a good effect from the steroid injections we did into the lower scar. I think the 4 month photos will display this area well since I fade my cut pretty short down there...... 
It is so great to be able to just enjoy this summer as apposed to last. I was in a hat all summer last year due to the size of the procedure we did, and electing to shave the entire head.

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## jetfan11

Ne Guy,

Congrats on all your progress.  I am going to see Dr. Cole next moth about grafting my scar.  Your case has given me hope.  If you dont mind I had a couple of questions for you:

1)Were your scars completely flat or a bit raised?

2)How wide were your scars like how many millimeters?

3) Can you get to a 3 clip without it being noticeable?

Again thank you and I appreciate you sharing your story

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## northeastguy

Hey Jet...... Thanks. I'm looking forward to seeing how things look come October. Go to the first posting I made when I started this thread. I believe it has all my scar details. For the most part, my scars were 5mm wide. The top scar was pretty flat. the Bottom was slightly raised.....only on certain parts. We hit that area with a steroid injection in May and I have to say it made a difference. I'll have him hit the raised areas again next time I see him if its not to do any more grafting. 
I tried going to a Number 3 clip once and my stylist said it looked good. However, I know what to look for and felt I was pushing it a bit.... I stick with a 4 right now. The photos on this page show me prior to anything at a 2 guard, then 11 months post 1 procedure at a 2 guard. 
Be patient with this process. you will need at least 2 passes if your plan is to get down to a 1-2 or maybe 3 guard if your scars are as wide as mine were. Someone who is only dealing with a 2 mm wide scar is far more likely to reach that goal with one pass. Still, 2 is recommended. Trust me, 4 guard is a far better and cleaner look than a 6 guard that I was stuck with. Goal in October is to play around with a 2-3 guard.
My advise is to cut your hair down to your goal length the day of your procedure. it gives a clear goal and great before photos. your going to be shaven down after that anyway so why not.....unless you do the unshaven method then your going to need to keep it long. 

For me my next pass my plan is to buzz my head with a 1 guard and have him hit all the decreased density areas and simply blend the scars and entire area with single hair beard grafts. I don't know how many it will take but I don't think many. Beard hair has a larger diameter than scalp hair so you actually get better coverage. I also need to address the "horses tail" effect I have from my bottom scar. there is a row of hairs that are actually growing upward...ya sucks. I didn't factor that into my original goals but I'm looking for near perfection so I may need to address it somehow. I'll be reaching out to him soon to start that dialogue. 

sorry for the long post....

Get some photo's up here if you don't mind.... would love to get a look.

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## jetfan11

Thanks for responding.  I am all about the patience part and understand it may take 2 or 3 passes.  I just hope it works on me.  I kinda feel like its a bit of luck whether or not you can get hairs to grow out of your scars.  I really hope I can.  

My scar is mostly 5mm but as much as 7mm in some spots. Im almost flat all the way around and went from red to pink.

I have done 2 rounds of cortisone shots.  Planning 2 more and the vbeam pulse dye laser.  The derma place here in seattle has these guards to protect the laser from hitting the hairs around the scar and even have a buddy coming with to make sure they don't!

This crap is a nightmare.  At least since my last surgery.  

I never realized how being bald is not a big deal at all!!!  Now I am having surgery to become bald.  

Shoot I think I would look good bald.  

Choices we make.......!

Anyway of talked to Dr Cole and hes been very cool to me.  Im excited to flatten the rest of this damn scar and get process started.

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## 35YrsAfter

> Thanks for responding.  I am all about the patience part and understand it may take 2 or 3 passes.  I just hope it works on me.  I kinda feel like its a bit of luck whether or not you can get hairs to grow out of your scars.  I really hope I can.  
> 
> My scar is mostly 5mm but as much as 7mm in some spots. Im almost flat all the way around and went from red to pink.
> 
> I have done 2 rounds of cortisone shots.  Planning 2 more and the vbeam pulse dye laser.  The derma place here in seattle has these guards to protect the laser from hitting the hairs around the scar and even have a buddy coming with to make sure they don't!
> 
> This crap is a nightmare.  At least since my last surgery.  
> 
> I never realized how being bald is not a big deal at all!!!  Now I am having surgery to become bald.  
> ...


 Jetfan11:
Looking forward to meeting you when you come in.  Scars can be frustrating to live with.  I have quite a few myself.  Gradually getting them fixed.  I have the round shotgun scars scattered all over my donor.  Strip scars are at least a straight shot, isolated to one area in the case of a single strip scar.  Hair does grow in scars.  I have seen the worst of donor hair in my case continue to grow in my scars.  The worst of donor hair being leg and arm hair.  The leg hair for me seems to grow better in the scars than it did on top of my head.  That was before ACell, PRP and ATP were used. 

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011

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## jetfan11

35years,

I am looking forward to coming in as well!

Question.  How flat do the scars have to be in order for grafts to take?  I am getting there but def not entirely flat.

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## 35YrsAfter

> 35years,
> 
> I am looking forward to coming in as well!
> 
> Question.  How flat do the scars have to be in order for grafts to take?  I am getting there but def not entirely flat.


 Northeastguy had a slightly raised lower strip scar.  The 11 month, first pass, post-op photo below shows what appears to be consistent growth.  The upper scar was wider.

----------


## northeastguy

I had noticed this issue in the shaved down photos from my first procedure but have not really noticed the effects of it till recent. I now cut this area as short as a #2 guard so it becomes more obvious. The angulation of the hair at the scar changes drastically the more procedures that are done. Dr Cole calls it Horses tail since it resembles the upward first then downward growth of the tail. It essentially causes the same effect as a cowlick where hair comes together at different angles. 

For me this is aggravating since it is going to put me back in the chair yet one more time. The treatment is to remove the hairs and replace them at the proper angle. If I plan to cut my hair down to a 1 guard, I have no choice but to address it. 

here is a photo of my lower scar. Notice the direction of the hairs at the bottom edge of the scar.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> I had noticed this issue in the shaved down photos from my first procedure but have not really noticed the effects of it till recent. I now cut this area as short as a #2 guard so it becomes more obvious. The angulation of the hair at the scar changes drastically the more procedures that are done. Dr Cole calls it Horses tail since it resembles the upward first then downward growth of the tail. It essentially causes the same effect as a cowlick where hair comes together at different angles. 
> 
> For me this is aggravating since it is going to put me back in the chair yet one more time. The treatment is to remove the hairs and replace them at the proper angle. If I plan to cut my hair down to a 1 guard, I have no choice but to address it. 
> 
> here is a photo of my lower scar. Notice the direction of the hairs at the bottom edge of the scar.


 Repair work can often take more work than expected.  How is your lower scar?  Does it feel less elevated?

----------


## Stevie R

Hey Northeastguy, what was the reason the redness stayed so long in your lower scar? Did anyone say anything about why it stayed red for long? I was just wondering cause the bottom scar of yours stayed red and was smaller than teh top scar and my scar is red and is small, does that have anything to do with it I wonder...Any help? I am sure it will go down eventually but was just curious if you got any info on it...take care.

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## John P. Cole, MD

Strip scars can be white, pink, or red following the healing process.  The redness can last indefinitely.  We have found that grafting these scars is the only way to eliminate the redness.  I honestly don't know why they stay red or pink after they heal.  I also don't know why the redness fades when we graft them.  Grafting also adds a more normal color to white scars.  We know that red implies more blood flow.  Scars typically have good blood flow even when they are white, however.

----------


## Stevie R

Thanks Dr. Cole, I realize that grafting a white scar, reddish or pink scar can be helped by grafting as the color improves alot and varies how well form person to person but was just wondering if size have anything to do with it. My scar is thin and Northeastguys bottom scar is thinner than his top one so I wondered if the thinness of a scar had something to do with it. I am not worried about my redness as I am going for another pass soon and I know it will be red again. I was wondering what knowledge you have on lasers such as fraxel, the palomar laser, and V-Beam to improve redness and overall to blend the scar into a normal skin color? Also what do you know about recell? I ask because it has been my experience that many HT docs are fairly naive on these methods but it seems you may have some experience or knowledge you can share with us?

----------


## John P. Cole, MD

Pulsed dye lasers are effective for improving red scars. There is no data re their effect on newly transplanted hair follicles but we know there is No effect at all on pigmented terminal hair follicles.

For white scars there are some excimer lasers that with multiply treatments help repigment skin. The problem is maintenance treatments are needed.

Summary
Pulsed dye laser are excellent for red scars. Excimer lasers are somewhat effective and require maintenance for white scars.


Recel is interesting primarily for adding pigment, but unavailable here in the USA at this point.  I think sometimes you substitute slightly red for white scars though.  I don't think it will be beneficial in red scars, but who knows.  I think it is mostly used with skin grafts and dermabrasion.  Strip scars are often very deep, but it makes sense to add some normal cells to the scars to make them look better.  I think the follicle grafts we add to scars do something similar by adding melanocytes, keratinocytes, elastin, and hair follicles to make the scar look more like a scar.  

I have no patients that responded well to lasers.  I'm just giving you what is supposed to happen with lasers.  That does not mean what is supposed to happens is what happens.

----------


## Stevie R

Hello again, thanks for the reply, my scar is not exactly red, it is similar to the skin tone but perhaps a little whitish, however after grafting, their is redness around the scar, more so on the bottom. Again, I am not worried and like you say it will go away but I was just wondering why is is red around the scar? Sorry if I didn't make that clear but it is nice to hear your insight on the V Beam and other lasers and so on. But do you understand what I mean by the scar being red around it, and if so is it common? I am 7 months post op and am a bit surprised it is still red as many have told me their redness has gone away long before 7 months, thanks again for sharing your experience and knowledge with us all, it's nice to hear it.

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## John P. Cole, MD

The V Beam is a pulsed dye laser.  It can help with color issues.  I honestly don't know how it works on strip scars.  I just know it can help with pigment problems including redness.  I don't personally use lasers.  

I'm sorry to have avoided your question.  You have redness around a scar.  Are you saying the scar was grafted already?  Redness around any scar would suggest possible follicullitis.  This might sound bad, but it would probably be limited to some ingrown hairs that might easily be removed with forceps or a needle.  If the scar were grafted, perhaps the doctor also added grafts in the surrounding area.  While this might seem prudent, it probably is not because all it does is increase the density around the scar so that the contrast between scar and the surrounding area is of greater contrast in terms of hair density.  I don't recommend grafting around a scar unless there are tiny white marks usually resulting from the insertion of the needle during the suturing process. 

A good photo of the problem might be beneficial.

----------


## Stevie R

Hello Dr Cole, I did do my first pass already 7 months ago and no worries about not responding as I did not word it well. I don't know how to post pics up here but I am not real worried just waned to hear your opinion on it as the redness was dying down but in a year in a half I will do something like the V Beam to fix the redness (I imagine I will have some more after my second pass in 5 months late as well) and then I will do recell after it, or I may just do recell because I am sold that it is the best to improve my case. But honestly my scar is so small in some areas it is hard to tell if it is red just under the scar or on the bottom of the scar...but redness seems to just be in the bottom and yeah I think he did graft below the scar a bit and perhaps above it a bit as well. The reason why this interests me is because the color of my scar is so close to skin, yet with fewer density of course, but not that much fewer in places where my scar is less half or more of 1mm and the hairs put in already have met the density or nearly have, however what gives the area off according to my wife and others I have shared pics with is the redness, at least in the areas where I don't need many more hairs, and my wife and all else agree the redness is just below the scar...Can it be perhaps that what you consider is a red scar is just below the scar and in fact the scar itself is not reddish? I don't mean to call your experience or professionalism out, I am just asking because we may just misunderstand each other. I don't think it is follicullitis and I may have some small dots here and their but not many and honestly it is very hard to see since the lowest I have ever went is a one guard but my wife says I don't have them, yet I may have small train tracks, but that to is hard to see because my scar is smallish and I have not had the opportunity to shave down lower than a 1 guard, if you can't give any other opinion on the subject due to the lack of a picture I fully understand.

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## John P. Cole, MD

No worries.  It is hard to understand exactly what is going on with your redness.  I apologize for that.  Here is a strip scar that is red.  Note that some of the redness extends in the upper part above the scar where hair is apparent.  Then you see a 8 month result after low density grafting.  Maybe the pulse dye laser can reduce redness, but grafting is the only way that I've been able to personally get the red out  of these scars.  

I think that redness in the lower margin of your scar suggests some sort of irritation.  I did have one patient with a hypertrophic scar and an angry redness.  I tried to reduce his scar as there was alot of hair growing in the margins of the scar.  I thought the hair growing in the scar might be the culprit of the angry look and hypertrophy so i revised the scar.  By the way, I did not perform his strip procedure.  Grafting alone would have left the raised scar so i thought perhaps it was just bad work and I might be able to make it much better revising it.  After the revision, the scar was much better, but it came back still raised and angry red.  Thus, I elected not to graft it because I assumed that any surgery to it would just make it more angry.  I began a series of steroid injections.  I began at 10mg/cc of kenalog and raised this to 20 mg/cc of kenalog over time.  After several injections, i was able to get the red out and the scar flat.  Some areas responded faster than other areas.  It just goes to show that there are many reasons for a pink or red scar.  One has to look at the individual scar and treat it on an individual basis.  It may be that something else is going on with your scar as most pink or red scars are not angry looking.  They are just pink or red.  

It sounds like your problem is not terrible.  That's a good thing.

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## Stevie R

Yes I was not too worried just liked to hear what you had to say since you were commenting on here. However, my scar was not red before my FUE and it is below the scar mainly where it is red, not on the scar, his scar after more closely resembles my scar even in color as the redness surrounding is not that bad even, but that being said it is the main thing from getting my scar fixed at the moment but I imagine it needs more time for whatever the reasonhich shouldn't matter anyway because I will go for my second pass in 5 months. But my scar is slightly raised on the right, where the redness is more prevalent ,which I don't think is a coincidence because when I shot them up with steriod injections about a year ago it flattened some of the scar out very well and the biggest parts were red so it seems their is some connection, yes? I know it is hard without pics but honestly even if I took pics the scar is so small it is hard to get even with a high resolution camera. The reason I say that the redness is the main problem also is when I use the derma roller and then the scar becomes red it blends in with the redness below the scar and it is nearly impossible to find in the places where the density is near perfect already. I think however, this conversation has to be a kind of stab in the dark for ya as it is hard to know what to say without a pic but I was just interested what you think about my assessment of it. Also do you think some more steroid injections might help the redness and raisedness at the moment? The reason I ask is because when I did the first set they worked so well that I was planning on waiting 3 months and doing another round but was urged not to by a different dermatologist than the first I saw that was away on vacation because she felt the scar my strecth as the skin felt thin she said and it may stretch the scar, of course I was cautious and then about two months later I did my FUE pass without ever consulting the first dermatologist but I have had doubts when she was scarred of it stretching, did her caution make sense to you and do you think I may benefit from another round of steroid injections and if so how many months post op is sufficient, 10, 12 14? Not for this time of course since I will do the next round in 5 months but to keep in mind for next time, unless you think it may benefit my next pass? One thing is for sure those first steroid injections really helped my scar.

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## Stevie R

Any thoughts Dr. Cole? If not I understand your pretty busy and thanks for your input on those last posts, anyone else have any input on my last post? I think I just need to heal and that I am over complicating it though.

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## John P. Cole, MD

Yes, grafting a scar will make it turn red.  The redness will generally fade over 3 months.  Redness below the scar is difficult to explain.  It is one of those things that you'd like to see and you would also like to see the before grafting photos.  Hopefully some good ones were taken.  

I do not think steroid injections make scars widen; I have never seen them cause a scar to widen.  It is ok to inject a 10mg/cc kenalog concentration in the elevated areas again.

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## Stevie R

Actually after looking at it today it seems that both top and bottom are red, just around the edges, perhaps because it is raised? Sorry if I thought it was just the bottom, but it seems less on the top, hard to see due to the hair more easily concealing it. Oh okay, I thought it was odd when she said it would stretch, but I was of course cautious as I know little about these shots of course, I think I will look into getting another shot then, thank you. Just curious and for everyone else here, how long after is the shortest time to get a steroid injection after FUE into a scar? And do you think injections would benefit me for my next FUE pass in 5 months in any way?

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## northeastguy

[QUOTE=35YrsAfter;132544]Repair work can often take more work than expected.  How is your lower scar?  Does it feel less elevated?

Sorry for the late reply. Seems I missed quite a discussion. The lower scar is doing well. it is still raised in some areas but doing much better than it did after the first pass. I think the kenolog injections certainly helped. We will be able to do another pass with the steroid when I deal with the horses tail. all in all it less raised and not as red. Should start seeing growth in about a month now....

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## northeastguy

Coming up on 3 months on the 18th so looking forward to cutting down to a 3 guard. Going to try to get some good photos. This is when I wish i was a little closer to Dr Coles office. Its hard to beat those quality images for comparision. 
Definately getting growth because I get the occational pimple effect along the scars.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> Coming up on 3 months on the 18th so looking forward to cutting down to a 3 guard. Going to try to get some good photos. This is when I wish i was a little closer to Dr Coles office. Its hard to beat those quality images for comparision. 
> Definately getting growth because I get the occational pimple effect along the scars.


 Looking forward to seeing your progress.

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## gillenator

> Coming up on 3 months on the 18th so looking forward to cutting down to a 3 guard. Going to try to get some good photos. This is when I wish i was a little closer to Dr Coles office. Its hard to beat those quality images for comparision. 
> Definately getting growth because I get the occational pimple effect along the scars.


 It's so nice to hear about your continued progress NEGuy.

Looking forward to your updated pics as well!  :Wink:

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## northeastguy

Thanks Gill.... very much appreciated. 

OK... as promised. these photos where taken today immediately after my hair was cut. the bottom is a 1 guard blends to a 2 guard and the longest area is a 4 guard. Once I'm past the 3 month mark, which is in 10 days, I will experiment with a 3 guard and go from there. 
If you zoom in on the close up, you can see the issue with the "horses tail" caused by the multiple strip procedures. 





...To say "I'm itching to go with a 1 guard" is the understatement of the century right now.

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## John P. Cole, MD

You are making progress.  

Strip surgeons never mention anything other than the scar as the complication of strip harvesting.  Strips marry coarse, dark hair to fine lighter hair.  They marry one angle of hair growth to another angle of hair growth.  They cause follicles below the scar to grow in a more elevated direction similar to a horse's tail.  

Sometimes these complications are worse than the scar itself.  It looks like you could be home free other than some minor imperfections.  I wonder if they will be worth bothering with.  I hope you are home free.

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## jetfan11

NE Guy,

Man impressive stuff.  I am in similar situation and this is inspiring as corny as it sounds.  I have a doosy of a strip scar 5 to 8mm.  I met with Cole and his people and they were very gracious to me. Was very appreciative.   

Dr. Cole did mention I might want to do a scar revision 1st as its a bit wider than yours but certainly could just go ahead and graft the scar.  

I am basically tormented by this decision because I am not crazy about having my scalp cut open again but at the same time I don't want to use up my donor hair for the scar and have it not grow and then I would kick myself for not putting the hair up top.

I mean if I could get my hair to look like yours the nightmare is over Id just shave my head and be bald guy with that amount of coverage on sides and back.  Then again Ive some scar grafting fail miserably and that would suck. 

My question is how wide is your scar?  I believe you said 5mm.  Is that correct?

Man if you got that close guard 1 to 4 with 2 scars why couldnt I get there with 1 scar thats 3mm wide in some spots....
Tough decisions!

Let me know what you think.

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## John P. Cole, MD

When a strip scar is 2 to 5 mm wide, a scar revision may or may not be of benefit.  The first thing to recognize is that the average strip scar following a single procedure is 2 to 5 mm wide.  A physician really has to work hard to get a scar that is wider than 5 mm.  In other words, they have to do things during a strip harvest and I have no idea how to perform.  It must how they harvest, how they close, or some form of magical recipe because no strip scar should be more than 5 mm in diameter if the harvesting is performed properly and closed properly.  You will hear physicians say that a wider scar results when the tissue is closed under too much tension.  I don't really know exactly what that means because there is no gauge measuring tension on closure.  I think it is more likely that the physician got greedy, extracted too wide of a strip, closed haphazardly, and got the resulting wide scar.

When a strip is initially removed, the width of the scar rarely is improved with a multiple layer closure.  When you do a second strip, a two layer closure may help reduce the width of a scar.  If you have a wider strip scar, you may try a revision with a two layer closure provided this has not been done before by a qualified strip surgeon.  If a qualified strip surgeon has already tried a two layer closure, you are unlikely to benefit from a scar revision.  

A good scar revision will result in a strip scar that reduces in width by 50%.  There is a risk that the scar can become wider on revision.  I hear of this often, but i personally never had it happen.  I did have them return to their original width after proper closure initially (2-5mm).  In other words, when you've tried everything and done it well, you are unlikely to have further improvement.  Strip scars that were not closed with multiple layers initially will generally improve 50% with a two layer closure.  

Two layer closures really help on the second harvest.  They are of little help with scar width on the initial harvest.

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## 35YrsAfter

> Thanks Gill.... very much appreciated. 
> 
> OK... as promised. these photos where taken today immediately after my hair was cut. the bottom is a 1 guard blends to a 2 guard and the longest area is a 4 guard. Once I'm past the 3 month mark, which is in 10 days, I will experiment with a 3 guard and go from there. 
> If you zoom in on the close up, you can see the issue with the "horses tail" caused by the multiple strip procedures. 
> 
> ...To say "I'm itching to go with a 1 guard" is the understatement of the century right now.


 northeastguy:
Looks excellent!  A lot more growth to come.

jetfan11:
It was great meeting you at our office. Scar revision can be a tough decision.   Your hair on top really looks great BTW.  I remember you had concerns about shock loss.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
Cole Hair Transplant - Atlanta
Phone 678-566-1011

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## northeastguy

> NE Guy,
> 
> Man impressive stuff.  I am in similar situation and this is inspiring as corny as it sounds.  I have a doosy of a strip scar 5 to 8mm.  I met with Cole and his people and they were very gracious to me. Was very appreciative.   
> 
> Dr. Cole did mention I might want to do a scar revision 1st as its a bit wider than yours but certainly could just go ahead and graft the scar.  
> 
> I am basically tormented by this decision because I am not crazy about having my scalp cut open again but at the same time I don't want to use up my donor hair for the scar and have it not grow and then I would kick myself for not putting the hair up top.
> 
> I mean if I could get my hair to look like yours the nightmare is over Id just shave my head and be bald guy with that amount of coverage on sides and back.  Then again Ive some scar grafting fail miserably and that would suck. 
> ...


 Hi Jetfan,

Try to look at it a different way. One advantage you have over me was you have one scar. I have 2...... if you want to call it an advantage. my upper scar was 1-2mm on the sides then got as wide as 5-6 mm in the middle. the lower scar was a consistent 5-6 mm from end to end. The reason I decided to not do a revision was the need to address both scars and it would have taken up to 2 years before I could have grafted. factor in my scalp is pretty tight I wasn't sure the results would have improved any. These were my scars just before we got heavily involved in the first procedure...



 

I was comfortable that I had enough scalp donor to address the scars and the ability to use beard hair should I need additional density. I was no longer interested in addressing the top (although we did soften the hairline). Should cloning come make its way to the industry in the future, I'll address the top and front then. My #1 issue was to fix these scars so I could buzz my hair short and live a normal life. I can pretty much say we achieved that. As far as I'm concerned, the rest is gravy. Will I address the little imperfections? probably, because I had a specific goal and I am still shooting for it. 

When I was still considering a revision, there were 3 individuals I liked. Dr Linsey because he is not only a Strip surgeon but also has a plastics background. Dr Wong because of his reputation as a strip surgeon and the limited issues I had read about their donor sites. And lastly Dr Frechet because of his claim of an invisible scar closure technique... this was what he said regarding my situation:

"The trychophitic closure technique( TCT) is very different to the invisible scar technique( IST). 
The TCT does not improve significantly scars.
The ICT is very efficient on previously" virgen scalps"
In your case, with previous scars, you need an other approach I  have worked on . If you heal normally your scar will be  1.5 mm wide or less after revision.
I can only remove one scar at a time and I would start by your top scar.
After If the result pleases you ,I shall take care of your lower scar.
No one in the US performs this technique. 

Best regards

Doctor P Frechet"

You can certainly research all three and others should you decide to go the route of revision. Like Dr Cole said, there's just no guarantee how well the scar will heal. My top scar was closed by a very well known and respected HT surgeon in the industry and it still stretched. Maybe your scalp is loose and might fair better....this is something you have to decide. 
Just keep in mind, if you go FUE, your going to need 2 passes. its not a 1 and done deal to make it right. Some do but it often takes 2 passes. I can say this, the healing for FUE is night and day easier then strip. We even did a modified version of the shaveless technique and it allowed me to attend a function little over a month post op with no signs of surgery. I can't speak well enough about Dr Cole. His results speak for themselves. 

..... ask any questions you have, I'll answer the best I can. you can also reach me at northeastguy14@gmail.com

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## jetfan11

Dr. Cole,

Thanks for the thoughtful response. And thats damn damn good work on NE guy.  Very tough decision.  If I go the revision route first.  How long should I wait from last surgery? I am about 8 months out now.

I have consult with Dr Hasson on 8/23.  Figured I would check it out as I am in Seattle.  WHat do you think of him for a revision?

35 years,

Top of my head has come a long way.  Never quite made it back to where I was before last surgery but its passable.  Great def not.  But thx you.  

NE Guy,

I will check out this Dr Frecht guy.  Sounds interesting. THX YOU FOR THE HEADS UP.

The really tempting piece of this whole thing is that I think i am 1000 to 1500 grafts away from a result I would cry tears of joy for.  And if I were to go to a rockstar like Cole have him revise the scar pull out a 1000 grafts or so with it I could end up with better scar and enough to fill mid scalp and refine hair line.  Done and done.  Freedom with hair!!

BUT LAST TIME I HAD A HT 8 MONTHS AGO EVERY DAMN HAIR ON MY HEAD FELL OUT!!!! (WITH PRP AND ACELL)  I COULD HAVE SHOCK LOSS AGAIN MAYBE PERMANENT THIS TIME AND END UP WITH SAME CRAPPY SCAR BECAUSE I GOT GREEDY FOR GRAFTS. ESPECIALLY SINCE I HAVENO BALD AREAS JUST AREAS WITH PREVIOUSLY PLACED GRAFTS AND NATIVE HAIR. TEMPTING AS ALL HELL. 

We shall see thanks all for responding.

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## John P. Cole, MD

Quite honestly, I have nothing but good things to say about Dr. Hasson.  I like Dr. Wong better only because the two of us get along better and he gets great results too.  You see Dr. Hasson and I are like oil and water.  He loves his strips and I hate them.  My view on strips is that you can put all the lipstick you want on a pig and it's still a pig.  I don't think Dr. Hasson has much compassion for that perspective.  As a strip surgeon, I think he is one of the finest. He is very detailed in his approach.  I've seen him work once and I was VERY impressed.  Not many impress me.  He did.  

Dr. Frechet probably popularized the trichophytic closure in 2005.  He is a true gentleman.  I love him to death, but his graft work is horrible (minis and micros that look like minis).  He's a scalp reduction guy and probably the best at it.  Unfortunately, that sort of aggressive procedure often leads to big problems in the best of hands, which he's become a master of resolving.  If you had a midline scalp reduction scar and needed to resolve the angle issues in your crown as a result, i'd recommend him.  He might be great at a scar revision.  Actually, he might be spectacular, but what do you do with the hair the revision removes?  I would not toss it in the trash and I'd never let him graft it.  If he ever stepped up to "follicular unit and single hair grafts", I'd recommend him for scar revisions, but thus far I can't.  Stick with Dr. Hasson to revise the scar first. If you had a frechet extender leading to a scalp reduction scar in the crown area, i'd recommend him for a triple flap revision.  The name says it all....aggressive procedure that leaves major problems that require a major procedure to resolve those problems provided that all hell does not break loose and you wind up in one hell of a sticky situation.  

Look, I think i was really good a revising scars at one time.  I just don't do it that much any longer so I just can't recommend myself.  You know I see these guys talking about their FUE skills at times and I wince because they do one or two a month or they use a robot.  I just can't get behind that because how can you get good at something you do a handful of times each year and we know the robot is not as good as great hands. Now, even though I've closed over 8000 strips, I just can't recommend myself any longer.  In comparison, I'm sure I'm better at strip scar revision than the FUE performed by a guy whose done 100 lifetime FUE cases based on the number of strips I've closed, but someone like Dr. Hasson does strip closure every day.  I did not do a single one last year.  Now, they are easy in my opinion and I was good at them, but it's a no brainer.  I'm sure Dr. Hasson would recommend me for a FUE procedure over himself and I can't possibly argue that he is a better choice to revise your scar than I am at this point in my life.  

I think your top looks great.  Ok, you can be better.  Who can't be 10% better.  Give it some more time and see it things don't fill in better.  I hear you about wanting to be better, but you are pretty close to the top already.  I often use the analogy of a jar of marbles.  If the jar is empty and you add 50, anyone will look better, but what if you have 800 marbles and we add 50, there is not much change.  Don't expect miracles at this point.  Anyone with major hair loss would love to have your hair.  Ok, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  850 is better than 800.  

The scar.  Most are final at 3 months though there is some movement up to 6 months.  They continue to heal to 12 months but widening is mostly  done at the 3 month mark.  Hair on top?  Wait a year at the minimum.  In a year, the top may look so good that you forget about the scar.  I'm Praying for you, brother!

You know what I love about you guys?  You want perfection.  I'd say that 90% of those who get a hair transplant are ok with mediocre.  I'm a perfection guy.  I want the patient who sees a single hair out of place.  I want the 10% that see every flaw and I love the 3% who would rather die than have a hair out of alignment.  That's my kind of patient.  


The key to any scar revision, in my opinion, is to minimize the width of excision to the normal margins of the scar and the scar itself.  The margin of a typical scar will be about 30 cm from ear to ear.  Boy that sounds ugly doesn't it?  Yet it is true.  Follicular density is reduce on the margins of the scar so you should get a total of about 200 grafts when you take clean margins.  Prior to you first strip this margin would have contained about 580 grafts, but stretching  the skin to cover the excised surface area reduces follicular density.  If there is a huge number of grafts, your physician took a margin much wider than necessary.  This may result in a wider scar following revision.  The next key is to place a deep suture to avoid stretch back in a scar revision.  If done properly, a revision should be at least 50% better to the same.  If done improperly, the scar might be wider based on my experience.  

Don't expect a scar revision by trichophytic method to totally conceal the scar.  It most likely will not, but let me know if it does so I can bring this to the attention of other patients.  This is not to say that a scar revision that produces more than 300 grafts will not heal better than the original scar. A properly closed wound that yields more than 300 grafts might heal fine, but it is a risk because it might heal worse.  It is far better to stay on the safe side near 200 grafts than to try for 2000 grafts and a scar revision at the same time. The two are incongruous.  In other words, if you are looking for 2000 grafts don't expect the optimal scar.  If you are comfortable with 200 grafts, look for a better scar.  If you don't get it, you know what you have to do at that point.  You have to graft it.  The other alternative is to graft it right off.  It sounds like you are comfortable revising it first so look for 50% better or the same.  In good hands and with a conservative approach, it should be 50% better or the same by next year. You should have a good idea of the width by 3 months as most scar widening occurs in the first 3 months.  Three months means 90 days plus, not 89 or even one day less.  Keep us posted.

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## northeastguy

On Saturday I had reached the 3 month mark on my 2nd procedure. Although early, I was still interested in trying out a 3 guard with a 1 guard above the ears and neck area. My hair grows supper fast so went for it. I took these photo's outside to get the best lighting. Its funny, some angles you can't see much, when looking straight on, you can see the issue of the permanent shock loss I received below each scar from the strips. Even if I still have Dr Cole touch up the scars or any dotting and small density issues with beard hair, I will still have this issue. This is where I think the Trico would be so beneficial until I am all grey. once that happens, the contrast between my scalp and hair won't be so noticeable. One big value of not being permanent, as I grey, won't need it as much. 
Then there's the horses tail..... 
It's still so very early from the second procedure to evaluate but it gives me time to decide the next step.

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## jetfan11

Dynamite dude.  Id say you are really really really close to being perfect.  At 3 months Id say at 6 or 8 you'll be damn close to perfect.

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## baldesswonder

Ive heard a lot of good things about cole he seems well known on the net.

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## fauxhawk

Any photo updates (I know it's only been about 2 more months)? I am fascinated by these results and thread as I am contemplating on doing this myself.

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## chicago99

We would all love to see update photos. So far looks great!

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## northeastguy

My next haircut I'll have the stylist take some photo's. I definitely need to do a session with beard hair this winter if I want to safely go to a 1 guard. It's my goal and I want to achieve it. I could leave things alone and be ok with a longer cut but it isn't what I set out to do. 
I also need to work on the lower scar in regards to the "horses tail" caused by the strip surgeries and pinkness that remains. I most likely will be using a combination of Kenalog injections and Pulse dye laser treatments. 
I'll start with a test pass soon from my neck to determine what type of scaring I may receive from beard grafting then do a large pass in the winter while treating the lower scar.

----------


## topcat

I thought Kenalog has been known to cause hair loss? I remember reading a post from a patient that was trying to reduce ridging. It worked on the ridging but in the process he lost hair.

Just writing what I have read I have no experience with it. I do have ridging but after reading that one experience I don't think I would ever risk it.

Thought I would pass this along but maybe you have more information and if so I would be interested in reading it.

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## northeastguy

I think with any corticosteroid in "high doses" you have the risk of side effects. Hair loss being one of them. It is a hormone so it isn't out of the question. I met with a Plastic surgeon recently for this particular reason and he did not mention the risk of hair loss. The only connection I could find between kenalog and hair loss was in those who took it on a regular basis or had multiple high dose injections. 
I have already had one pass with the injections and did not have an issue. Dr Cole did not mention this as a risk.

I welcome more feedback on this ... it certainly would be a concern. MD's experiences?

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## northeastguy

Ok... took some photos this am in the sun. I would say its a 1 guard low to a 2/3 guard high... mid area is a 2 guard. Its funny because in this kind of light it looks great! 

I will be seeing Dr Cole Next month to test some beard hair. I'm confident the grafts will grow, I'm more interested in what to expect from the extraction site. Considering its my face I'm taking it much more couscous approach. While there we will make another pass of Steroid over the lower scar. Prior to the procedure, I may go shorter with the cut, either way, there will be good photos from Coles office. Also, I want to follow the donor site on my beard closely for not only myself but others who might be considering using beard hair and are concerned of facial scarring. As I've mentioned before, there just isn't enough photos out there regarding beard harvesting in my opinion.

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## chicago99

Looks fantastic! Very happy for you. Thanks for keeping us up to date. It gives all of us some hope

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## Stevie R

That looks great man, how many more months do you have of growth from that second pass? The great thing is is that you are already fixed at what you want, anything else is a bonus really. How many beard hairs are you thinking of?

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## northeastguy

My second pass was in may so its early. It wasn't a large session so not really expecting a huge result. I am only doing a 25 beard graft test next month to evaluate any scaring I might be suseptable to. If all goes well ill do a larger session in the winter at least 8 months apart from the second pass. How much depends on how things look after I buzz down to a 1 guard.

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## Stevie R

Oh okay, well it looks great man, and your strategy makes perfect sense, do you or Cole have any guess estimate of beards hairs you might well use?

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## 35YrsAfter

Northeastguy is here today to test beard hairs (25) to evaluate scarring for a third pass on the overall back of the head using beard hair.  This should improve consistent density.
We took some progress photos today and as you can see he is making great progress.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
I am not a doctor and the content of my posts are my opinions, not medical advice.
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.  Ask for Chuck

----------


## Stevie R

I'd say, looks fantastic, are the first and last pics the same length?

----------


## John P. Cole, MD

It's coming.  Beard hair came out easy and went in easy.  Lower scar looks great except some hair growth direction issues.  Upper scar needs some fill in at the shorter hair lengths to get it right.  We might want to change some hair growth direction issues on the lower scar, but you have to look close to see this thankfully.  It (hair growth directional distortion) is not as bad as it could have been or as bad as i've seen.  we are hoping the injections of steroids help the raised lower scar sit down.  It's a little bit elevated.  This can occur from hypertrophy of the scar (usually) or volumetric displacement (by grafts).  I've not seen FUE grafts cause this before, but strip FUT grafts can because doctors leave more fat on the grafts and this extra volume causes elevation of the tissue around the graft.  This is more consistent with scar hypertrophy as the entire scar is elevated rather than only around the grafts.  One option is to cut holes with a punch to place grafts in rather than placing the grafts in slits if you are worried about volumetric expansion.  In other words, before you drop the rock in the glass of water, you take out some water so that the rise in water is equal to the original level before the rock was put in.

----------


## northeastguy

As always, I had a great visit on Thursday with Dr Cole and his staff. It was so hard to not jump into a large session while I was there but stuck with my intent which was to evaluate facial scaring from beard FUE. I'll post photo's of that area in addition to a video after the 3 day period. Today I will show some photo's taken in his office on Thursday. 
as Dr Cole mentioned, I have some hair growth direction issues ( there's a clump of hair that looks real off but that is not accurate. I'm pretty sure that's from the seat on the plane and car during my travel ) Regardless, there is some adjusting we will do in the future to correct this. I'm too much of a perfectionist to go through what I am going through to leave that alone.

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## northeastguy

> I'd say, looks fantastic, are the first and last pics the same length?


 Hey Stevie. the first pic is a 2 guard over the entire head. The last pic is mostly a 2 guard with a 1 guard around the nap and over the ears. Just above the top scar is a 3 guard. I could probably do a 2 guard according to my stylist but i'm not comfortable with it yet. Besides, the issue I have of using a 2 guard over my whole head is the direction of the hair growth on top from the strip surgeries. It just looks off. that's why I need to either be at a 1 guard over the whole head or long enough on top so it lye's flat. 
So to answer your question, it is mostly a 2 guard but a little longer over the top scar.

One other thing I noticed on Thursday is the effects I am getting from using Rogaine and Nizoral shampoo on a regular basis since my first procedure in June of 2012. my hair is fuller and not as fine as it was. mostly noticed in the areas around the crown and top back.

----------


## northeastguy

On Thursday we tested 28 beard grafts. I've posted some photos of Pre to day 3. We used a .75 punch and extracted via CIT. Once I get my hands on the video, I will post the actual extraction process.
Post care involved cleaning with soap and water and a consistent application of Neosporin a few times a day.

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## Stevie R

Looks amazing, you have come a long way. I can't see you not fixing it when you do some more beard at a 1 guard or maybe even lower (though I know you don't want to go lower, just saying it is incredible work by Cole from where you started). The line is either non existent or so faint that it would not draw attention, was that how low your hair was when you went it for this 28 beard hair pass?

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## jetfan11

> On Thursday we tested 28 beard grafts. I've posted some photos of Pre to day 3. We used a .75 punch and extracted via CIT. Once I get my hands on the video, I will post the actual extraction process.
> Post care involved cleaning with soap and water and a consistent application of Neosporin a few times a day.


 Thanks for posting this stuff. Awfully damn helpful. Impressive stuff by Cole. You get to a 2 clip all the way around ill officially be jealous!

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## jetfan11

> Looks amazing, you have come a long way. I can't see you not fixing it when you do some more beard at a 1 guard or maybe even lower (though I know you don't want to go lower, just saying it is incredible work by Cole from where you started). The line is either non existent or so faint that it would not draw attention, was that how low your hair was when you went it for this 28 beard hair pass?


 Congratulations your a normal bald dude. My scar is 5 to 11mm all the way around. I'm pretty sure I'm just going to graft it but man part of me wants to go for a revision.

But man you're scar was 2 to 5mm but you had 2 scars. 

This is damn good result.

Tough tough decision.

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## jetfan11

> It's coming.  Beard hair came out easy and went in easy.  Lower scar looks great except some hair growth direction issues.  Upper scar needs some fill in at the shorter hair lengths to get it right.  We might want to change some hair growth direction issues on the lower scar, but you have to look close to see this thankfully.  It (hair growth directional distortion) is not as bad as it could have been or as bad as i've seen.  we are hoping the injections of steroids help the raised lower scar sit down.  It's a little bit elevated.  This can occur from hypertrophy of the scar (usually) or volumetric displacement (by grafts).  I've not seen FUE grafts cause this before, but strip FUT grafts can because doctors leave more fat on the grafts and this extra volume causes elevation of the tissue around the graft.  This is more consistent with scar hypertrophy as the entire scar is elevated rather than only around the grafts.  One option is to cut holes with a punch to place grafts in rather than placing the grafts in slits if you are worried about volumetric expansion.  In other words, before you drop the rock in the glass of water, you take out some water so that the rise in water is equal to the original level before the rock was put in.


 That's frikkn impressive Dr Cole. 2 scars down to an almost perfect 2 clip with not that many graft. Makes me not want to get a revision.

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## greatjob!

> Congratulations your a normal bald dude. My scar is 5 to 11mm all the way around. I'm pretty sure I'm just going to graft it but man part of me wants to go for a revision.
> 
> But man you're scar was 2 to 5mm but you had 2 scars. 
> 
> This is damn good result.
> 
> Tough tough decision.


 Holy hell! 5-11 mm!!

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## 35YrsAfter

> That's frikkn impressive Dr Cole. 2 scars down to an almost perfect 2 clip with not that many graft. Makes me not want to get a revision.


 Jetfan11:
How have you been?  I remember you reported some shock loss a while back.  It looked like a lot filled in later when I met you during your consult.  Did most of the hair return?  


35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
I am not a doctor and the content of my posts are my opinions, not medical advice.
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.  Ask for Chuck

----------


## northeastguy

> Congratulations your a normal bald dude. My scar is 5 to 11mm all the way around. I'm pretty sure I'm just going to graft it but man part of me wants to go for a revision.
> 
> But man you're scar was 2 to 5mm but you had 2 scars. 
> 
> This is damn good result.
> 
> Tough tough decision.


 Hey jet.  Ya, it's not an easy decision. I forget who closed your last scar but I just feel in the right hands you can improve that scar substantially. 5-11mm is pretty wide. In the long run, you'll save a lot of grafts to use for better use. Worse case, if it doesn't work you can graft into it anyway.

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## northeastguy

> Looks amazing, you have come a long way. I can't see you not fixing it when you do some more beard at a 1 guard or maybe even lower (though I know you don't want to go lower, just saying it is incredible work by Cole from where you started). The line is either non existent or so faint that it would not draw attention, was that how low your hair was when you went it for this 28 beard hair pass?


 Yes.  My hair was cut the day prior.

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## jetfan11

> Hey jet.  Ya, it's not an easy decision. I forget who closed your last scar but I just feel in the right hands you can improve that scar substantially. 5-11mm is pretty wide. In the long run, you'll save a lot of grafts to use for better use. Worse case, if it doesn't work you can graft into it anyway.


 I agree it would be a much easier job with a narrower scar and I am tempted to do that.

Problem is my donor hair below the scar is really really weak after 3 surgeries.  I also have been told by docs i have a ridiculously elastic scalp and it would probably stretch back out.

I dont really mind if it stretches back out.  My concern is I will have MORE permanent shock loss of hair around the scar and the jig is up.  If you saw my donor hair youd get it.  

Also I am prone to hypotrophic red scars and i donor see common sense wise why i would all of a sudden get this great scar regardless of how good a job the doc does.

I will say Cole and their staff have been very cool with me answering questions while I waffle back and forth on the decision. 

The other reality is a lot of my shock loss grew back...not all of it.  I can throw some toppiks in my hair and put on a pretty damn good show so as much as I really really want to fix this scar I dont want to go backwarsds.

But its tempting also because while I wouldnt "go" for more grafts but I would get a couple of hundred grafts with a revision and that few grafts in my hairline if they grew would make a big difference....but last time I got a transplant every damn hair in my head fell out...so kinds stuck.

So again tough decision.

You look dynamite though. Happy for ya.

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## northeastguy

Thanks Jet for the kind words. I am truly seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. As for your own situation, unfortunately only you can make the final choice. 
you mentioned you have a very elastic scalp.... I am confused why they feel that is the cause of the stretching... usually its the opposite. However, If the current scar is flat and you have enough donor via scalp and beard hair then maybe jump into FUE. Try not stressing, I can assure you in the long run you'll be far better off than you are now. Set up a goal and game plan and make it happen.

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## northeastguy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd7e...ature=youtu.be

Thought it would be interesting to view the actual test procedure done on 11/14/2013. Again we used a .75mm punch (which I was very happy about).

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## northeastguy

Here is a Day 9 Photo of the Beard area we tested...

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## Stevie R

Hey Northeastguy have you seen this one of yourself?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5vC6jKkf4c     That is AMAZING, also the right side as seen in 0:37 is perfect and can probably be cut alot lower, and Dr. Cole if I need another 30-70 beard hairs for my final session I will definitely hit you up for that pass, great work guys!

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## northeastguy

Ha! I guess that's one what to get on youtube! I'll post an update in the next day or so. I am getting a haircut tomorrow so I'll post one without that Bed head thing going on. the effects of a 3 hour flight and hour drive showed itself...
Next time I'm there, I'll be at a 1 guard, 8 months out from my 2nd procedure. Not sure how that'll look but it'll give us a very good idea of what area's we need to focus on to put this to rest.

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## Stevie R

Well still that looks excellent, but do you think I am right when I think that the right side, the last inch and a half or so seems to be perfect on both scars? The rest looks nearly so as well, but the right looks particularly good wouldn't ya say? Anyway I am pretty stoked to see you at a 1 guard man as I am sure others are as well, it just looks so good. But here is a question for Dr. Cole, how many guys send back pics of their scars you graft? I just wonder because I bet it is very very low, most people have a stigma of having no one see it, even if it is the back of our heads an no one would know...But I think it is important because many who research FUE into scars are discouraged because their is not too many examples, and many are older which don't seem to equal the newer work, such as your job on Northeastguy here. Yet, it seems all the newest FUE into scar cases I see are amazing, whether from you or a couple other notable guys, not downplaying your work at all cause this is the best case for a scars Northeast's size I have seen repaired. Do you have anything to add on this? I feel it will help others to see what your opinion is on this, cause my experience after having my first pass with very good results is that it must be that like 1 percent of the repairs are online, thanks again guys.

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## northeastguy

Sorry for the delay. 30 days have come and past and I want to post photos of the Beard area I used to test for scarring. Pretty sure its safe to go ahead and do a good size session. I'll be seeing Dr Cole in January to have this done and update at the time. My Goal with this procedure is to:

1. Fix the horses tail.
2. Add density to the scars.
3. Add density to the general area of the strip scars that have uneven density from multiple procedures.
4. Maybe do another injection of Kenolog to the lower scar if its safe at this time. 

My plan is to buzz my hair down prior to the procedure to a 1 or 1.5 guard so it will be easy to see exactly what areas need work. 

Photo includes post test, 30 day post shave, 30 day plus 1 day growth with flash and 30 day plus 1 day growth without flash...

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## northeastguy

Here is a non edited photo 30 days to allow for zoom viewing....

.75 mm punches via CIT

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## jetfan11

you,re my hero.  hope my result are half as good as yours.  doing 75 beard tests in January with Cole.  My scar is a lot bigger than yours but excited to give something a try.  How many beards are you doing next time around?

Also at what point did the extractions become passable?  Ive got to get back to work after my procedure and not rocking a turtle neck!

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## gillenator

> Sorry for the delay. 30 days have come and past and I want to post photos of the Beard area I used to test for scarring. Pretty sure its safe to go ahead and do a good size session. I'll be seeing Dr Cole in January to have this done and update at the time. My Goal with this procedure is to:
> 
> 1. Fix the horses tail.
> 2. Add density to the scars.
> 3. Add density to the general area of the strip scars that have uneven density from multiple procedures.
> 4. Maybe do another injection of Kenolog to the lower scar if its safe at this time. 
> 
> My plan is to buzz my hair down prior to the procedure to a 1 or 1.5 guard so it will be easy to see exactly what areas need work. 
> 
> Photo includes post test, 30 day post shave, 30 day plus 1 day growth with flash and 30 day plus 1 day growth without flash...


 Awesome plan, AWESOME RESULTS!   :Wink:

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## northeastguy

On Friday 1\31 I spent the day in Alphretta Ga with Dr Cole and his staff. Over all we place 891 beard grafts in to the 2 scars and in general areas around the scars that needed some density work. He also addressed a few hairs from the horses tail. We didn't focus a lot of time on that issue but hopefully the ones we addressed will make a difference. PRP and Acell were used. We also made another pass with the Kenolog over the lower scar. It certainly helped the last time we used it. I did buzz my hair down to a 1 guard for the procedure but ultimately we decided to go to a 0 guard on the back side to make some of the work a little easier to see. Theres a lot going on back there and thankfully I can where a hat when I work.... 
I have to say i LOVED the 1 guard cut. It worked and I loved the look. I am praying the work we are doing with thesed scars and any laser I add to the journey will allow me to achieve my goal. 
Beard donor area is healing well. I might have been a little too aggressive cleaning the area today as it is a little angry with me. A few days and we sould be good. currently using a lot of bacitracin, sometimes a steroid ointment to assist with the redness. 
I will post pictures as things progress. Right now, I am going to let things cool down a bit. I promise lots of photo's to come including the beard area.

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## 35YrsAfter

> I did buzz my hair down to a 1 guard for the procedure but ultimately we decided to go to a 0 guard on the back side to make some of the work a little easier to see. Theres a lot going on back there and thankfully I can where a hat when I work.... 
> I have to say i LOVED the 1 guard cut. It worked and I loved the look. I am praying the work we are doing with thesed scars and any laser I add to the journey will allow me to achieve my goal.


 Northeastguy:
It was great to see you again. You are correct sir, your hair looks great short.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## Stevie R

> On Friday 1\31 I spent the day in Alphretta Ga with Dr Cole and his staff. Over all we place 891 beard grafts in to the 2 scars and in general areas around the scars that needed some density work. He also addressed a few hairs from the horses tail. We didn't focus a lot of time on that issue but hopefully the ones we addressed will make a difference. PRP and Acell were used. We also made another pass with the Kenolog over the lower scar. It certainly helped the last time we used it. I did buzz my hair down to a 1 guard for the procedure but ultimately we decided to go to a 0 guard on the back side to make some of the work a little easier to see. Theres a lot going on back there and thankfully I can where a hat when I work.... 
> I have to say i LOVED the 1 guard cut. It worked and I loved the look. I am praying the work we are doing with thesed scars and any laser I add to the journey will allow me to achieve my goal. 
> Beard donor area is healing well. I might have been a little too aggressive cleaning the area today as it is a little angry with me. A few days and we sould be good. currently using a lot of bacitracin, sometimes a steroid ointment to assist with the redness. 
> I will post pictures as things progress. Right now, I am going to let things cool down a bit. I promise lots of photo's to come including the beard area.


 
Sounds great man, I didn't realize you were gonna do so many beard hairs...I bet those scar will be invisible at a 0 guard now, even though I know you don't want to cut your hair that low. Can't wait to see those pics, thanks for the update Northeastguy, I am sure all will be well in a year with that amount of grafts, good stuff!

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## gillenator

northeastguy,

What an awesome update...glad to hear all went well and that you are healing well.

As always, wish you the best in results and looking forward to your update photos as those grafts come through.

Now take some time and relax my good friend... :Wink:

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## northeastguy

Thanks guys, so far so good. Ill post photos of the donor area first. Isn't much to show in the scars as of yet. Once that starts growing, I'll be testing the limits with a 2 guard as soon as I can.

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## chicago99

Congrats on the latest procedure.  Can't wait to see pics!

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## northeastguy

I'm now 10 days post op and all looks great. Other than some residual redness and elevation in the lower scar, its hard to tell I had anything done. I need a couple more weeks for my hair to grow out to get back to a length I am comfortable with. We went to a 0 guard for the procedure. At month 4 I'll start testing new lengths.... 
I'm switching over all my photos to a new computer so once that's done I'll post photos of the donor area. 

Currently to speed up the hair growth rate I am taking a multivitamin, extra Biotin, Using Rogaine on the recipient area, and applying Therapy G to the scalp to increase blood flow.

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## northeastguy

> Sounds great man, I didn't realize you were gonna do so many beard hairs...I bet those scar will be invisible at a 0 guard now, even though I know you don't want to cut your hair that low. Can't wait to see those pics, thanks for the update Northeastguy, I am sure all will be well in a year with that amount of grafts, good stuff!


 Stevie, Its interesting you say that because when we hit the scars with the 0 guard, the upper scar was almost difficult to see. Its in far better shape than the lower scar.

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## jetfan11

> Stevie, Its interesting you say that because when we hit the scars with the 0 guard, the upper scar was almost difficult to see. Its in far better shape than the lower scar.


 I have to admit I am jealous!

Couple questions:

1) Beard looks ok after 891 grafts? Not too much scarring?

2) Was Cole able to get all 891 from below the jawline?

3) Do you think you have more beard grafts available after the 891 below the jaw or would you have to go into the face for more beards?

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## gillenator

Amazing how many potential beard grafts that can be harvested.

Still waiting to see some consistent yields from beard hair cases whether repair or not.

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## topcat

Consistent yields are there, only a few doctors have the skill though to achieve these high yields. Unfortunately it's just not something anyone can do.

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## northeastguy

> I have to admit I am jealous!
> 
> Couple questions:
> 
> 1) Beard looks ok after 891 grafts? Not too much scarring?
> 
> 2) Was Cole able to get all 891 from below the jawline?
> 
> 3) Do you think you have more beard grafts available after the 891 below the jaw or would you have to go into the face for more beards?


 Hey Jet...

1) No scarring. Just some residual redness. I'll post some detailed photos once I do a good wet shave.

2) Yes... see photos below

3) I have many more as we didn't even take from the area below the chin yet. There has to be at least 1000 hairs in that area alone. Maybe more. your welcome to count them on the photos I posted in the test session. we didn't even take from that area (chin to Adams apple)

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## northeastguy

Below are photo's of the area we extracted from. Each side below the Jaw line had about 440 grafts taken. He did some repair on the horses tail so I'm sure that factored into the tally.

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## topcat

You have plenty of beard donor that is for sure...............has to give you some confidence that it is all just a matter of time.

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## Stevie R

I think it looks great, I am happy for ya...but when you say "Stevie, Its interesting you say that because when we hit the scars with the 0 guard, the upper scar was almost difficult to see" do you mean that you think you might be able to get that upper scar to a 0 now? I know you don't care much but after seeing this Mwamba case http://www.**********************.co...rafting-2.html and as you know a few others...I can then see no reason you can not achieve similar results at the same length...It is great to see that there is no scarring, I can only imagine how far the scars will come in a years time...I can't wait to see it. Being just 2 months after my second pass and the redness having died down a great deal already, and seeing the scar gives me great hope as it is very very small now and no hairs have even grown...likewise your scar had come along way and it seemed to me that the upper scar on the right was near invisibility already...I am just wondering what your thinking because you sound much more confident than before of it getting there, even at the 0 guard.

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## northeastguy

I agree topcat.... once we pass the 3 month mark and I see the benefits using beard hair has, and of course high yields, I'll feel pretty good. 

Stevie, Key work in that sentence is "almost". I just don't feel anyone can go to a 0 guard and not think it won't show. I'm not saying someone shouldn't make it their goal... It just might be a tough one to achieve. Every individual I've seen who has long strip scars no matter what they do, I can detect the scar. My goal is to go as short as I can and not have any signs of scaring... 2 guard? I'll be there in 4-5 months I feel. 6 most definitely. for me going from a 6 guard to a 2 guard is a victory. I want to be as short as I can, have someone standing or sitting behind me and know they can't see a thing. Even someone who has had a transplant. 
That being said, my goal is to get to a 1-1 1/2 guard. I loved the look. But it will take more work. I have a scar that is slightly raised.... one reason a 0 guard is out of the question. It is also slightly pink and always has been. Both these issue I will attempt to address using the Palomar non ablative laser. it is the only laser I have research that will address hypertrophic red scars in addition to being safe on hairborn tissue. 
There are so many factors that play a role in the ability to get to a 0 guard with a scar. scar condition, texture, and color. High yields of FUE, Hair direction above and below the scar. My hair direction underneath my lower scar is horrible by the way. Basically what I am saying is even if we continue to pack in the scars ( and we will ), address the scars texture, I am going to be limited to a certain hair length. That's a simple fact. What that length will be is an unknown right now... and I'm ok with that. 

first things first.... heal and grow.

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## Stevie R

Oh okay, I mean I see your point but when I look at the Mwamba case and Daveones case I see them getting down to 0 guards just fine, after just 1 or 2 passes...I understand what you are saying and if you think you can't get there I won't argue, maybe you can't...though, I still think it may be closer than you think, the good thing is that you want only a 1-1 1/2...I myself think that if the hair direction is right, the color is close, and not too many hairs needed it can be done...I will continue to pack it and do what I can to get that 0 guard....until I have exhausted all measures, even though I probably won't ever go that low. I just wasn't sure what you were trying to convey on that previous post, either way I wish you the best and am sure you will be really happy in a years time, take care northeastguy.

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## 35YrsAfter

> That's a simple fact. What that length will be is an unknown right now... and I'm ok with that. 
> 
> first things first.... heal and grow.


 The toughest part of the whole process for many, is waiting for the hair to grow.  In some cases beard hair takes a little longer than scalp hair.  The one reliable constant I have repeatedly seen is; repair patients improve with every pass.  Dr. Cole really nailed the scars this time.  

Chuck
Dr. Cole's office

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## Stevie R

> Stevie R, with all due respect it is very hard to judge the Dr. mwamba's results as the angle of the donor is not the same in the after shoot as the before, in the before the head is straight and in the after it is pulled up. also the before photo is blurry and the after photo is darker, where is the close up photo?
> A proper before and after is important if you want to evaluate the results.
> I attached a good example of before and after photos  showing scar grafting by Dr. Cole:


 First off I am not promoting Dr. Mwamba, Umar, De Reys, or anyone else, but I know each one of them have fixed cases at a 0 guard or a 0.5 guard, that particular case I feel shows enough and I am sure Dr Cole could have gotten a similar result. I am not sure what your getting at by showing me that pic...I think it is great and further proves my point...because that was just one pass by Cole and it is a 1 guard...Idk what it will look like at a 0 guard, perhaps the patient is like Northeastguy an wants only a 1 guard cut, IDK, but I bet he can probably get it to a 0.5 guard as I see no trace of it at a 1 guard like I said, and after another pass I would bet he could get to a 0 guard...but surely it is not guaranteed, I never said that anyone is guaranteed to get so low, I just don't see the reason why some are so ready to shoot down the fixes at a 0 guard being not proof enough when their are 4 or 5 cases of guys being fixed at a 0guard and many after just one pass getting to a 1 or 1 1/2 guard with no problems, and not just by doctors themselves. So, it seems logical to me that these scars with time, multiple FUE passes into the scar, and perhaps recell or the palomar laser can allow people to get their scars fixed at a 0 guard, at least the guys who have a similar scar to skin tone, hairs are going the right way, and have a fairly thin scar, as long as they go to one of the top FUE guys out their, like Cole, Feriduni, Bisanga, De Reys and so on. Also, I felt that the Mwamba case was a very clear photo, and the resolution very good, I suppose the head is tilted slightly more....but I don't think that really matters when the resolution is so good, we should still see something if it was indeed not fixed.

I hope you are not trying to bash Mwamba's clinic on here as I feel he has a lot to offer to people in his area (Europe I mean) and some may not want to travel all the way to Georgia, spending a lot of money on a plane ticket in the process. Also, I think you might gve people pause to visit Dr Cole that live near by in using such tactics. It seems to me that the work of Mwamba, Cole, Feriduni and Dr De Reys amongst others are all very similar and that individuals should decide based on closeness and comfort ability with their certain guy. I think the case you showed and Northeastguy are both great cases but you force me to point out that the case you displayed, ironically, did not show the length of the hair at a 1 guard before and after, it showed a 0 guard before, and a 1 guard after, the Mwamba case showed a 0 guard before and a 0 guard after...so in short, I wouldn't go throwing stones....Also, their are plenty of other cases out on the internet, including a case from Dr True (I am not promoting True in any way, I know little of him) that shows a patient in many more angles, sides, before and after that show that the patient was able to get to a 1 or 1 1/2 guard, after just one pass, and many agree in his case, as a case of Dr Feriduni has on the internet that another pass would fix either.


Also, in my own experience with my scar after doing just one pass ( I am 2 months into my second pass so no growth yet, this is why I say I have only had one pass as I only see those results) that the scar in areas was invisible, before the redness accompanied by the second pass. Why should I not believe after a second pass that I will be able to get to a 0 guard after my own experience from the two passes and results of the first pass as well as my deep research into the experience of others who have similar scars, with similar hair colors, similar texture to their scars and so on? If you want me to be frank, I believe that many who are not likely to reverse their scars to a 0 guard due to horrible scars or personal doubts will not let themselves believe (even when the evidence proves the contrary) that these HT scars can't be fixed at a zero, in order to not get too down when they likely don't get back to a 0 guard. But like I said, if not too bad, and if all is in their favor as I have mentioned above such as color, size, texture and so on, then these scars can indeed be fixed...in my opinion and from my experience.

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## Stevie R

> You said "First off I am not promoting" but it seems you take it very personally with this long reply. well, i know and worked with Dr. Mwamba and i actually like him very much as a person. 
> Getting a scar grafted and camouflaged to 0 guard is something that is very hard to achieve,  scars tend to have a different pinkish color because of the scar tissue, hair direction is also a problem on scar tissue and hair doesn't always grow well on scars. so to talk like it can work on any patient is not true. scars are unpredictable, some patient have great results and some less.
> i am not trying to take anything from this results of dr. mwamba, but i think that it is not right to claim that the patient is on 0 guard after scar grafting while not showing photos with the same angle, same light and close up...the pictures are not good and blurry. Of course it is good work there, but for this claim - "0 guard" you need good pictures, that's all.


 If I take it personal (which I don't) it is because I know many that don't even want to go through the repair process unless they can get a 0 guard, and many skeptics knock down clear success stories. That Mwamba case was only 1 pass by Mwamba, even if it wasn't fixed at a 0 guard, another pass would surely improve it further, and once again the pics you showed did not present that much better pictures at all, in fact I might argue that Mwamaba's pics are better, though it is close as he showed the grafting of the scar and so on, and a 0 guard in both before and after shots. I never said a 0 guard can work on any patient, I am merely trying to announce to the repair cases around the globe, that if your scar is not too bad, and in some cases, even if it is, there is hope for a 0 guard, and better hope the better your scar is as much evidence has shown, from Daveone, to the Mwamba case, to many others, as well as my own personal experience. You would have known that I never said that anyone can achieve a 0 guard if you would have read my prior posts I make it very clear. I am not going to keep going in circles here on this forum, I am merely trying to convey to the many who look on these forums and don't respond that there is hope for a 0 guard...it is never personal for me on this forum.

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## northeastguy

Guys do me a favor, please don't turn this thread into a verbal sh$t storm. I started this thread to share my repair journey and help those along the way that are looking to address the same issues.

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## gillenator

A couple of comments.  Scars and the results in repairing them can and do vary quite a bit between patients, something that I have observed for many years.  Many of the guys that I do hear from are complex repair cases involving either strip scars and/or past open donor procedures (plugs).

For example, how individuals respond to future corrective procedures do vary in how the patient responds in the healing process.  Regrowth through scar tissue varies primarily because of the variance in the composite of the scar tissue itself.  Varying degrees in collagen levels can impact the coloration of the tissue even after complete healing has taken place, and sometimes it can seem to linger forever and ever, etc., etc.

In addition, beard hair and other types of BH also have variances in their growth cycles so patience between corrective procedures is important.

My observation is that northeastguy for example has and continues to respond very favorably in both healing and regrowth in his past strip scars.

And I cannot commend him enough for his transparency and courage in sharing his journey with us.  Especially to those other patients who are in need of repair and are quietly following these repair threads yet never post.

One last issue, and I am clearly not seeking a debate on the subject.  I have in the past and continue to inform anyone considering a HT procedure whether it's their first or subsequent procedure, that there is a chance great or small, that they may never be able to "shave down" their scalps or even "buzz down" that low to a number 1 guide without some visual effects of HT surgery showing.

Some heal very well, go to a competent talented surgeon, and come out just great.  Others can go to the same surgeon and may not have the best physiological make-up, and do not respond as favorably.  Sometimes they may have other health issues that can compromise the final result. Sometimes they have been taking medications for years and must stay on them, like diabetics need to.  Or they have P.A.D. and need to be on Plavix for the rest of their lives.  I am one of those individuals and living with eight double stents in my body from four separate past angioplasty procedures.  I am required to take low dose aspirin daily for the rest of my natural life.  I could go on and on but I won't.

And this is why it is absolutely critical that the clinic take a full comprehensive medical history on every potential HT patient before ever scheduling a HT procedure.  The medical history must include past and current health issues along with their "complete" medication list.  IMHO, the surgeon should review and sign off on every potential patient prior to making any decisions on moving forward with a surgical procedure including all other forms of cosmetic surgery.   

Every concern including having the relative written consent/approval of other pertinent health care providers and medical specialists should be explained to the patient beforehand because sometimes the HT surgeon may need to temporarily pull the patient off certain meds like blood thinners, anti-coagulants, beta blockers, etc. before the procedure.

And diabetics do not heal as favorably in general terms so all of these factors need to be considered and weighed because they can potentially have a bearing on the final result.  I know this firsthand having chronic diabetes myself.  This is why the attending medical staff will want to get an accurate blood sugar reading on their diabetic patients before surgery ever commences.  Not all patients take their prescribed meds as directed and even if they do, blood sugars can jump around unpredictably. 

Just my two cents for those interested.... :Wink:

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## northeastguy

great stuff! As always, Thank you for your input. It is so rare to see someone who has such scars, shave down with a bic or even a 0 guard and expect to achieve a goal of total undetectable results. Like you said, individual physiology plays such a role. Does that mean they shouldn't shoot for that goal? absolutely not, and I think that is what Stevie might be driving at. If they have the patience and determination at the very least they will make substantial improvements. Just don't see the end result as a pass / fail. Even if someone goes from a long hairstyle due to scaring to a 2 or 3 guard they should consider it a victory..... and hopefully find peace with the results. 

again, thanks Gill... :Smile:

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## gillenator

You're welcome northeast... :Wink: 

The only other thing I wanted to add is that I get a lot of requests for opinions about scar revisions from past strip procedures and I really cannot comment since I am not a doctor nor have the actual hands on experience, only clinical observations from countless past cases presented to me with pics.

Overall, revisions to past strip scars, especially wider ones, usually do not come out favorably and each and every individual seeking repair should be physically examined for such a procedure.

Again, just my two cents for whatever its worth... :Wink:

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## gillenator

And we must remember that the original intention or goal of getting the HT procedure in the first place was to fill in the thin balding areas, not necessarily to achieve the goal of seeing how short one can wear a future hair style length... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Stevie R

> great stuff! As always, Thank you for your input. It is so rare to see someone who has such scars, shave down with a bic or even a 0 guard and expect to achieve a goal of total undetectable results. Like you said, individual physiology plays such a role. Does that mean they shouldn't shoot for that goal? absolutely not, and I think that is what Stevie might be driving at. If they have the patience and determination at the very least they will make substantial improvements. Just don't see the end result as a pass / fail. Even if someone goes from a long hairstyle due to scaring to a 2 or 3 guard they should consider it a victory..... and hopefully find peace with the results. 
> 
> again, thanks Gill...


 Well, ya I think people (if they have the patience) should try and get to a 0 guard, because I think anyone can achieve it, even yourself. Again, I am not saying it WILL happen, just saying it can...and if we look at the cases where scars are thin and multiple FUE passes have been attempted about half get to a 0 guard....from what I have seen. The problem is is that many don't document their scars on the internet after the second pass, probably because they are satisfied and the whole deal is forgotten and surely most would not send the ex-doc pics...surely it is the furthest thing from ones mind. That being said I have seen a couple cases fixed at a zero guard with just one pass, and a few very very close (not all on the internet like the Mwamba case or Daveone or the Umar case on video), I myself was close for much of my scar after my first pass as well...and it wasn't even really packed in all that good for much of the scar. I am not trying to start a "sh$t storm" here, but this is a public forum and I really do think a 0 guard can be reached for many patients if 2,3 or with bigger scars 4 passes were attempted, but often these attempts aren't made, nor is recell or other things to alleviate the issue of the whiteness that often subsides. 

Perhaps your mind has been so far from thinking of a 0 guard because you have had multiple FUT's, your hair direction issues, the size of the scars or what have you that you cannot see these clear signs of success in others, and perhaps you don't really pay attention as much as I would to smaller scars with okay hair direction and color. My scar seems similar to Daveone's two small scars that he fixed with just 2 FUE passes...when I picked his brain about it and he was convinced that it was fixed at a 0 guard, maybe even at a shave but he didn't want too do that. I also look at similar scars in others, for example the Mwamba's patients scar that he fixed with just one FUE...I use to think a 0 guard wasn't possible but I have seen too many success' and not many examples to begin with to ignore. IDK...I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one, no hard feelings or anything...either way it seems that we all agree that you will likely get your 1 guard...and I suppose that is all that matters in your case, so heal well bro.

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## gillenator

When it comes to repair, it calls for stepping outside the box at times, but like northeast stated earlier, many have room for improvement... :Smile:

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## northeastguy

Love your passion Stevie. If most had your resolve while dealing with the repair process, the end result would at very least be a huge improvement.... hopefully enough to move on with their lives. 
I concur, we can agree to disagree. I do have this challenge though. present us with clear, "hi-res", same lighting and angles of before and after photos at a true 0 guard and I will withdraw my opinion that one with strip scars can not achieve that goal.  :Wink: 

For me, I have a very good before photo of me just prior to a 2 guard. I've attached that image below. I am looking forward to the same photo in 6 months or so after 3 procedures. If it looks great, I'll play around with a 1 guard...

Now I do believe that might limit those who have limited damage and flat white scars but it would still be great to see if it truly is achieved. I do think one intangible is that each persons opinion of what is perfect is going to be very different. Regardless, this will be fun to follow. 

Have you thought of buzzing down to a 1 guard at this point? How many months are you post 2nd procedure? sometimes the best way to determine where you are in the repair process is to take the plunge and see what your dealing with...

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## VictimOfDHT

Since I'm losing my hair again after my 6th HT, I'm considering cutting my hair very short but there's the scar problem of course. I don't think transplanting into the scar is an option for me -due to financial reasons and also the possibility they too won't grow- so I don't know what else to do. I thought about SMP but I'm not sure I want to keep going back forever..

The other thing I'm seriously thinking about is to get a regular large tattoo into the scar at the back of my head. Would that work? I've seen people with such tattoos and I've seen people with tattoos over scars on their bodies as a way to disguise them. 

Can someone PLEASE comment on this. I feel my life is over. I'm going crazy not knowing how to continue with this hell I'm living. But I keep telling myself I'll just get a tattoo ....

I just need to mention that the scar in the back of my head doesn't seem to be too bad. It's not wide from what I can see but I'm not sure since it's always covered by my hair.

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## DAVE52

Are you willing and able to post some pics ?

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## northeastguy

> Since I'm losing my hair again after my 6th HT, I'm considering cutting my hair very short but there's the scar problem of course. I don't think transplanting into the scar is an option for me -due to financial reasons and also the possibility they too won't grow- so I don't know what else to do. I thought about SMP but I'm not sure I want to keep going back forever..
> 
> The other thing I'm seriously thinking about is to get a regular large tattoo into the scar at the back of my head. Would that work? I've seen people with such tattoos and I've seen people with tattoos over scars on their bodies as a way to disguise them. 
> 
> Can someone PLEASE comment on this. I feel my life is over. I'm going crazy not knowing how to continue with this hell I'm living. But I keep telling myself I'll just get a tattoo ....
> 
> I just need to mention that the scar in the back of my head doesn't seem to be too bad. It's not wide from what I can see but I'm not sure since it's always covered by my hair.


 For starters start with the simplest approach. If you say your scar isn't that bad, go to a hairdresser and have her cut your hair short..then shorter. see how short you can go. you might like it and be able to live with it. Most don't even try this. If your scar isn't bad. you may get away with a 2 or 3 guard.... even a 4 guard looks good. So start there. 

Post a few pics to let people give you options.

FUE into scars do work so that is an option. Find a MD that will work with your financial situation and has experience with scar grafting.

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## Stevie R

> Love your passion Stevie. If most had your resolve while dealing with the repair process, the end result would at very least be a huge improvement.... hopefully enough to move on with their lives. 
> I concur, we can agree to disagree. I do have this challenge though. present us with clear, "hi-res", same lighting and angles of before and after photos at a true 0 guard and I will withdraw my opinion that one with strip scars can not achieve that goal. 
> 
> For me, I have a very good before photo of me just prior to a 2 guard. I've attached that image below. I am looking forward to the same photo in 6 months or so after 3 procedures. If it looks great, I'll play around with a 1 guard...
> 
> Now I do believe that might limit those who have limited damage and flat white scars but it would still be great to see if it truly is achieved. I do think one intangible is that each persons opinion of what is perfect is going to be very different. Regardless, this will be fun to follow. 
> 
> Have you thought of buzzing down to a 1 guard at this point? How many months are you post 2nd procedure? sometimes the best way to determine where you are in the repair process is to take the plunge and see what your dealing with...


 
Northeastguy, I had my hair at a 2 guard or 1 1/2 guard before I did anything at all and have a 2 guard right now...you know my case quite well and of course I know yours...I am almost positive that after the first pass I can cover my scar at a 1 guard...however as you know the redness for months after is a problem...like I said I am 2 months post op right now after my second. Daveone, the Mwamba case and Umar's video camera shot are all good enough evidence from me....though I agree it is tough and was in the same thinking say 8 moths ago...but like I said I have seen so many cases now that are near fixed and fixed at a 0 or 0.5... that, in combination with recell (than none of these guy s have done) and I think we may be talking in a couple years of it being a flux for guys with smallish scars to NOT get to a 0 guard...De Reys was confident that I would get a 0 guard...and it isn't like I badgered him on it or anything, I just asked how low I could go and he was extremely confident in telling me a 0 guard and that I would need nothing else, and if you look at the scar when the hairs are sitting in their 4 days post op...well I see no scar...It's okay though, like I said, for you it doesn't matter...and for me too really...I just want to achieve that for everyone else more than anything, to show people it can be done, I mean it isn't like I am promoting a doctor or procedure...if I thought the tattoo worked I would give it a go. Anyway, your helping a lot of people bro, and due to this thread it is likely lots will give it a go and may or may not get a 0 guard, but I see few if any regretting it as FUEing the scar no doubt makes the scar situation better.

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## northeastguy

I hope you don't get offended of I take what Dr Reys says with a grain of salt. Remember, at one time, these were the same people that told us "it will look 100&#37; natural", "the scar will be as wide as a pencil line", and my all-time favorite "I'll be as wide as the creases in the palm of your hand". So until Dr Reys or anyone else can provide me or this forum with clear, hi-res, detailed, multiple angle images, I have to say getting to a 0 guard without any visibility of the scar is a very long shot if not impossible. I've said this before, I want people to set those goals. It holds the surgeon accountable and at the very least, drives them to be better surgeons.... and that's something we all benefit from. 
If there is one thing I've learned is most of us and including me are our own worse enemies. since my repair process began, I've opened up and shared to more people about this than the 20 years I kept it a secret. Every single one of them including my hair dressers have said only I see what is going on back there. they do not see the same thing. Most say had I not brought it to their attention, they never would have known. I think its important that we also focus on rewiring the way we think. To be happing with the improvements we've made rather than those we didn't achieve. 
Set your goals, be patient, follow through, but accept the improvements you make more valuable than those you didn't achieve. 
I just can't tell people at this stage of the game that a 0 guard cut without the signs of scaring is a possibility. There are just to many variables. That's at no disrespect to you and your opinion. But what I will say is that with the right people in your corner, a realistic game plan, and patience, the results you do achieve will be life changing.

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## Stevie R

Ya I hear ya, and I agree on most of that. However, De Reys has a hi res photo at a 0.5 guard on the German sites as he is more popular their...alot of ity is just hard to find, like that one tattoo place in Italy that is easily the best one (not the Milena that did Spex but the other one if you remember???). I don't think it is in every angle though I was just showed on by a friend...But ya I hear ya and of course there is no hard feelings, we all have our own views, my views are constantly changing and evolving so maybe one day I will be more inclined to agree with you, but I would wager you would hope I am right on this one. No matter what your scar has taken a huge leap in appearance and you should be very happy, but it will only get better which is great news for you and everyone. I think it is also good we talked about this as well so people can see and make decisions on their own on what to expect and how to plan it, rather than just hearing from some doc...I hear ya on what De Reys said, however, I will say he is different than every other HT doc I have talked to (outside of Feriduni who also told me a 0 guard was very possible) in the huge discount he gave, the hotel he set me up in, doing it on his day off, inviting me into his home and so on...sometimes you just have a feeling for a guy that is telling you the truth, not that I believe that I will have a 0, but just the fact that these guys are saying it is a big statement to me, but I understand if your skeptical and if others are as well...you definitely have a right and a reason to be skeptical.

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## northeastguy

I believe you might be referring to these guys... 

http://www.tonibelfatto.org/tricopigmentation.html

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## Stevie R

Ya that is it, I am just saying that the tattoooing their is by far the best and would blow many people away I think, in the same way I think that this is where the FUE into the scar technique is with many doctors, many just don't realize it yet cause they can't believe their eyes and need like you said a hi resolution photo from many different angles and so on. So ya if some guys are skeptical fine, but look at the leaps in the tattooing and FUE in the past 5 years, it is inevitably getting better from tattooing to FUE and even such things as recell...guys should feel pretty good about their options I'd say.

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## VictimOfDHT

Thanks for the reply, northeastguy. I was thinking to shave my hair off (0) not just cutting it really short but I know that would be impossible because of the scar. That's why I thought getting a regular tattoo to hide my scar might be my best option. To be honest, after 6 HTs and over $22000 I really don't want nothing to do with this industry. FUE isn't an option like I said because there's no way in hell I'm going to pay another $5000 or even more to just to hide my scar. And I don't have the resources to do it. I thought about SMP but I think I'd be butchered too if I get it since I'd have to keep going back forever. 

I don't know. I'm living a real nightmare to which there's no end. 

By the way, I didn't mean to hijack the thread but just wanted to ask here since you're talking about something relevant.

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## Stevie R

I do think their is an end to your nightmare dude, it may not be perfection but their is light at the end of the tunnel. I understadn where you are coming from though, I too was thinking the same thing awile back but I wouldn't do it now after doing the fue into the scar, hope you find some peace in all of this, northeastguy I am sure can give some great advice, you may wanna take a look at that tattoo place right above my prior post that he put up their.

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## VictimOfDHT

Thanks, stevie. Would you please tell me what options I have? I'm not sure if you meant I could do an FUE but if that's what you meant then like I said I don't think that's an option for me at this point if only because of the expense and the travelling needed, which I cannot afford any more as I'm hardly working now. Is there anything I can do other than actually getting a regular tattoo into the scar? What scares me more is if I shave my head would there be bumps where the transplants had been placed once?

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## 35YrsAfter

> Since I'm losing my hair again after my 6th HT, I'm considering cutting my hair very short but there's the scar problem of course. I don't think transplanting into the scar is an option for me -due to financial reasons and also the possibility they too won't grow- so I don't know what else to do. I thought about SMP but I'm not sure I want to keep going back forever..
> 
> The other thing I'm seriously thinking about is to get a regular large tattoo into the scar at the back of my head. Would that work? I've seen people with such tattoos and I've seen people with tattoos over scars on their bodies as a way to disguise them. 
> 
> Can someone PLEASE comment on this. I feel my life is over. I'm going crazy not knowing how to continue with this hell I'm living. But I keep telling myself I'll just get a tattoo ....
> 
> I just need to mention that the scar in the back of my head doesn't seem to be too bad. It's not wide from what I can see but I'm not sure since it's always covered by my hair.


 I know someone that never had hair transplant surgery, who shaved his head and had it tattooed all over.  You can see his tattoo even when his hair is cut short.

Several months ago while waiting in line a Lowes, I noticed a guy in front of me with his girlfriend who had his strip scar tattooed.  He wore his head shaved.  Not SMP, but large wings like the Harley wings logo without the emblem over the top of the scar.  I could still see the scar.  It camouflaged it about 70%.  I thought it was a rather bold solution to the strip scar issue.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## Stevie R

> Thanks, stevie. Would you please tell me what options I have? I'm not sure if you meant I could do an FUE but if that's what you meant then like I said I don't think that's an option for me at this point if only because of the expense and the travelling needed, which I cannot afford any more as I'm hardly working now. Is there anything I can do other than actually getting a regular tattoo into the scar? What scares me more is if I shave my head would there be bumps where the transplants had been placed once?


 I was just saying that I would say FUE into the scar is our best option but if you don't want to do it...but the second best bet would be that temp tattoo place that Northeastguy put up their but I am not sure I was just saying check it out...if you don't want to do the tat IDK, maybe Northeastguy can help as I was saying or someone else cause I am not too sure what other advice to give. Though if I had to give advice I would say wait until something more comes out of until you can get yourself up to do the FUE in the scar, as I think it is the best option and a necessity if we want to improve our scar situations.

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## northeastguy

Victum..... If you can post some photo's it would really help. Also, if your worried about any bumps, you'd be able to see them .... you don't need to have your hair short to see it. I still think your best solution right now is to go to a barber or stylist hand have them cut your hair short in stages. Start at a 5 guard, then a 4, then a 3. leave the top a little longer.... its the best way to find out where you stand in regards to the severity of the scar and still keep it hidden. 

How wide is the scar? length? Again, if you can post a few photos of your current style it would help.

I would start putting away a little money each week and eventually you will have enough to graft that scar with FUE. SMP is a good complement to that but I wouldn't do it as your primary resource. Also, you can look into permanent SMP as well. Places Like HIS have a decent reputation. Only issue I have about them is the ink is permanent which can lead to a lot of issues. 

save for FUE for now and in the meantime, test cut your hair and see how short you can go.... you may find peace in a shorter style.

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## VictimOfDHT

Thanks for the reply, northeastguy. Man, you're scaring the hell out of me now and I'm even more depressed and paranoid now that you told me the bumps are going to be visible. What the hell am I supposed to do now? So I'm f**ked and disfigured. I'm completely out of options. Whether I shave or accept baldness I'll still be left with visible bumps. I was worried about the scar but now I have this sh*t (bumps) too to worry about. My life really is over. I'll just live like a hermit, as if I weren't living as one already.

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## northeastguy

I was saying IF you have bumps, you'd be able see them whether your hair was short or long... All you need to do is look. You don't need to get a buzz cut to evaluate that issue. The very fact you don't notice them now is a good sign you most likely don't have them. How would I know if you had bumps? 
You need to relax a bit dude. Your making this far more serious than it really needs to be. Step 1, get a short cut and evaluate. Step 2, do step one first. 

And post photos....

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## Stevie R

@Victum of DHT, I use to have bumps but after I laser-ed the hairs out they went away, some hairs remain, maybe 10 percent or less, but they are thin and like I said the area is flat now. It was pretty apparent to me that I had bumps (even though my wife didn't think so) so I was worried...now all I do is pluck like 10 hairs, maybe more, but I think I pluck original hairs. I agree with everything Northeastguy is saying here and I understand your pain, but this can be remedied. I will probably laser those remaining hairs off a couple more times just so it doesn't bother me and it is one less thing to do or worry about, but like Northeast says if you don't see em you probably don't have them.

I don't wanna rush you to do anything as you have to make an informed decision after some deep research and talking to a few guys, but the sooner you do some lasering out of hairs, fue into the scar or whatever step you need to take to fix your situation you will feel alot better and can take a breather knowing for a year that you have done all you can do.

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## VictimOfDHT

Hey Stevie. I don't understand, what "laser" are you talking about? Are these the ones (helmets, brushes....) some people use on their heads or are you talking about going to a skin clinic or a dermatological center where they do cosmetic surgeries and procedures....? Also, the "10&#37; hair" that's still there, is that transplanted hair? So you're actually trying to get rid of those hairs?

Yes I have bumps. I can see them now that my hairline is thin again. But there are areas in between where there used to be hair along the hairline that are completely smooth as if they've never been transplanted. I don't know what the hell is going on. 

If it ever gets to the point where all my transplanted hair is lost I think my only option would be a full head tattoo and I'm not talking the rip-off they call "SMP" but actual tattoo (designs..). If I'm going to look like a freak (due to scars and bumps) then I might as well be a total freak but do it my way- tattoo my head.

If any body knows the answer, does a biopsy show if someone has an autoimmune problem or not? When I had mine before my last HT it didn't show anything. How can I know if the transplanted hair I keep losing I actually lose because of an autoimmune problem???

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## DAVE52

Pics ?
It's probably not as bad as you think it is

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## Stevie R

> Hey Stevie. I don't understand, what "laser" are you talking about? Are these the ones (helmets, brushes....) some people use on their heads or are you talking about going to a skin clinic or a dermatological center where they do cosmetic surgeries and procedures....? Also, the "10% hair" that's still there, is that transplanted hair? So you're actually trying to get rid of those hairs?
> 
> Yes I have bumps. I can see them now that my hairline is thin again. But there are areas in between where there used to be hair along the hairline that are completely smooth as if they've never been transplanted. I don't know what the hell is going on. 
> 
> If it ever gets to the point where all my transplanted hair is lost I think my only option would be a full head tattoo and I'm not talking the rip-off they call "SMP" but actual tattoo (designs..). If I'm going to look like a freak (due to scars and bumps) then I might as well be a total freak but do it my way- tattoo my head.
> 
> If any body knows the answer, does a biopsy show if someone has an autoimmune problem or not? When I had mine before my last HT it didn't show anything. How can I know if the transplanted hair I keep losing I actually lose because of an autoimmune problem???


 


I was saying I lasered the hairs out three times (the transplanted hairs) and that about 10 percent still remain. I was trying to convey that lasering them out is fairly easy and straightforward...It is hard for me to help you because you don't want to FUE your scar and you have a problem with your transplanted hairs but you don't want to remove them. I think it may be best for someone else to help you as I only know about cortisone shots (flattening raised scars), the derma roller (improving the color and texture of the scar), creams and gels, and FUEing into the scar, at least I only know about those by experience. 

I will say however that you seem to be getting into your own head, you need to relax. I would not tattoo your head, if I was you I would do exactly what Northeastguy is doing, besides perhaps putting more hairs on top, as you may want to rectify those bumps up top first, I think you can smooth it out though I just can't remember what it is called, perhaps someone here can help...

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## VictimOfDHT

Thanks for the reply, Stevie. But still would like to know what laser you're talking about? I'm assuming you mean skin care clinics where they do cosmetic stuff...

The reason why I won't consider an FUE into my scar because I simply cannot afford to lose any more money on this. I've already paid over $22,000 for my HTs and it may be for nothing (if I eventually lose all my transplanted hairs) and I cannot spend another $6000 or god knows how much on my scars when I'm barely surviving on my income. And, what if I lose those FUE hairs too? It IS a possibility. 

The problem I'm having with my transplanted hairs is that I keep losing a good portion of them (probably 1/2). Why would I want to remove the rest? I'd still be happy if I could keep what I have left even though it's already thin. I -and my doctor too- don't think putting in more hairs especially in the hair line is an option any more. In a year they'd be gone too. I've already done more than 4500 grafts in the frontal 1/3 of my head over the years and especially the hair line ends up getting thin again and again and again. I'm not bald on the crown but it's thinning but I'd say I still have 60% of my pre-thinning hair.

What are cortisone shots used for? 


To those who are bothered by hair loss, the experience is hellish as it is. To someone who has BDD (body dysmorphic disorder), the experience is only a trillion times more traumatic...and I think that's an understatement. You have no idea what this past month has been like. 

Sorry guys. Taking a pic is one of the hardest things for me to do. I'm trying to avoid the reality of my situation.

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## gillenator

Victim,

I have been silently reading the dialogue in this thread and really feel that it is time to offer my thoughts.  We have dialogued in times past regarding your lost of grafts from several procedures.

I remember when you had the biopsies and they turned up negative, meaning, there was no damage to the underlying follicles, etc.  Please correct me if I am misunderstood as it can be a challenge to remember all of the details.

A couple of things.  I do not believe to my knowledge that a biopsy would indicate any relevance to your autoimmune system.  That is normally done via a blood test with conclusive lab analysis.  As you know, I am not a doctor, yet that is what I have observed and also in my own personal experience.

Cortisone is a steroid and something that would take advice from an experienced HT repair doctor and/or dermatologist.

What you may be experiencing is necrosis in that area and the level of necrosis can vary throughout any zone.  That could be the problem of why your grafts are not surviving.  Again, just my observation and I may have stated that in our past dialogue.

For whatever my thoughts may be worth, I would not recommend that you have more surgery in that area.  It could potentially compromise your frontal recipient zone further and no amount of cortisone injections will help IMHO.  Even if it did, steroids do not have a long term or lasting effect and that in itself can potentially just add further dilemma to the issue.

It is complex, yet after listening to patients who had multiple procedures over the years pretty much experience a decrease in overall yield when a subsequent pass is made within the same surface area.  Why?  Because the same recipient zone continues to be compromised with added scar tissue and possibly some level of dead tissue, namely necrosis.  As you know, we all heal differently.

And even though a biopsy may show life under the surface, the more impending issue is, to what degree?  In other words, is there enough life sustaining blood flow to your grafts for them to survive the long term?

And in the more severe/chronic cases of necrosis, the dead tissue must be removed because it can potentially begin to be infected and also begin to impede the surrounding tissue. 

So could further incisions to the same area do more damage that what it's worth?  It's possible.  Again, not a doctor but I have read some cases and the last thing you want to do is compromise the limited blood supply that you have at present.

I consider you a friend.  If I was in your situation and I had to have a head of hair, then give some serious thought to a quality hair system.  I know, it's not your hair growing out of your scalp yet hair systems have come a long way.  I ran into a old friend not long ago who became a class 7 before he hit age 30.  I knew he had some hair loss but did not know he was wearing a system until he asked me what I had been doing over the years.  When I told him I had four HT procedures, he was shocked.  He then confided in me and told me he was wearing a full hair system.

Honestly, his hairline looked sooo good and I know what to look for because I wore them for a decade when they were not natural.

Yes they cost money too but at least you can custom tailor the system for appropriate levels of density and a mature placed hairline.  That's what he did.

And you already know the other option which is to wear your hair short.

Lastly, I have been wanting to mention these things to you and yet trying to be more of a listener and friend who will stand the ground with you my friend.  Even if this is not what you wanted to hear, I don't want to see you end up in a worse situation.

My hair is not what it once was especially after chemo yet I am trying to look for the blessings in my life that does not involve having the head of hair that I always wanted.  Aint gonna happen for me and I have come to terms with it.  Life is much better and meaningful and I wish the same for you dear friend.

You can always call me if you want to talk more about some of the points mentioned or if you just need someone to listen.

Always sending you best wishes my friend.

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## VictimOfDHT

Thank you very much Gillenator for sparing the time to write your reply. I really appreciate that. I've been keeping this whole thing to myself since day one. No one even knows what I've gone through (HTs...) and I still can't talk to any one.
 Since my last visit to my HT doctor over a month ago I've been living a nightmare. I don't think I've ever felt worse (about my hair loss problem) since in the past I would always tell myself I'd get more HTs. But now, that's not an option any more. So, I'm facing the biggest fear ever -going bald, and not only that, but having a scarred head, which to someone with BDD is unimaginable hell. I don't know what the hell I'm going to do. Thought about going homeless as I can't have any kind of social life or get a job (I only do little work now and then on my own but it's hard physical work and my body cant handle it any more with all the back pain and other pains...). But where I live it's always raining and a life on the streets won't be easy. I even thought about doing drugs or drinking to help me forget about my pains (mental) and anxiety. So now what?

I don't know about this necrosis thing. My hair seem to grow just fine for some time (1-4 years) and then suddenly it just starts falling off! The last 2 HTs only lasted 1 year each though. Previous ones lasted a few years. I don't understand this f*cking thing. WHY? Why my last HTs won't last as long?
I went to see a doctor and I have an appointment with a dermatologist but here in Canada you wait forever to see a specialist. My appointment is still more than 2 months away (been waiting a month already)!! and I'm losing more hairs every day. This is really f*cked up.

I'm just dying to know what is happening and why. But the anxiety is killing me because I don't know if this loss will stop or if it'll continue until all my transplanted hair is gone. I've lost a lot of wait and can't eat or sleep much at all. I'm also waiting for someone to call me for counseling, but again god knows how long it'll be. Meanwhile, I'm just living like a prisoner (in my basement). Life is beautiful !! Yeah. Sure.

One thing, I've been wearing a baseball cap literally every day for the past couple of decades even when I had a full head of hair. I just hate my hair. I sometimes wonder if it has something to do with the loss of the transplanted hairs. But then if it did, why they last 1-4 years? 

I don't think a hair system is something that would work for me. My hair is thick and too wavy I'm not sure they have anything that would match. But the ridiculous cost and maintenance required makes me steer away. Not to mention knowing that I have FAKE hair..

I pray to god that I keep what I have now. If it goes, I think the only option left is like I said - a full head tattoo. 

Thanks again, gillenator. Nice to know someone cares and I really appreciate it. I wish you the best too.

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## northeastguy

Gill that is some great advise and options. I think what DHT needs to do at this point is go talk to someone. 
I'm not being insulting. I am truly offering my opinion. You really need someone to help break the unrealistic thought pattern your in. Go get some counseling. At this point your fortune telling. Nobody knows the future. Nobody. homeless, drugs.... are you really listening to yourself? Shit, life without hair is NOT a death sentence so you need to move on from that. You don't have cancer, ALS, MS .... or some other life debilitating disease. There are over 1 billion men in the world who are bald. over 40 million alone in the states. think about those numbers.
I would really like to see you actually take a step to do something that those on this forum have advised. You haven't even done the short hair cut yet! If that doesn't have the look you can live with, you most definitely can go with a quality hair system... that will DEFINATELY hide your issue. Yet you already write that off.... without even consulting with someone who deals with them. BTW, they do wavy hair. 
Do us a favor and start doing something.... get your hair cut as short as you can this weekend and evaluate that ( save the clippings because you will need those so the people you chose to make your systems can match texture, color, and wave). 
Do us another favor and post photo's. enough with the excuses about it being hard to look at. I've been posting photos for 2 years and have been able to do it without compromising my identity. I've also been about to do it without getting down every time I am reminded of the shit storm on the back of my head. You can make it happen.... you will also get some valuable advise from both experience patients and MD's. they all chime in. make them clear, detailed photo's. 

I hope you don't feel I'm being cruel, I'm not. I'm trying to get you to get off the couch, make a move and stop wasting time. start living your life. Tomorrow, I'd like to see some photo's posted with your hair cut as short as you can and still cover the scars. 

till then...

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## northeastguy

Dr. Cole, perhaps you have some insight of why transplanted hair is falling out 1-4 years post surgery?

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## VictimOfDHT

Northeastguy, first of all thanks for the reply. I don't think you're being cruel or anything. I know you're trying to help but what might work for some doesn't necessarily work for all. This is something I wish people would understand. 

Anyway, about seeking counseling, that's exactly what I said I was going to do (in my last post). Like I said, I've already seen a doctor and I'm just waiting for them to call me for an appointment with a counselor.

As for cutting my hair short, I think I'm going to wait on that. I'm trying to convince myself to feel ok with what I have left (in the hair line/front), but if it gets thinner then I will most likely cut it short. I've never had my hair short and I'm not sure it'll suit me and it really terrifies me to even think about it. That's why I'm reluctant. I'm also hoping against all odds to get some of the lost hairs back. I know that's a long shot but I'm thinking maybe. 

The hair system, at this moment I'm not even going to consider it. I'm not going to consider anything that requires an on-going financial commitment. I've seen people who were using hair systems at one time and who could afford them quit all of a sudden. I don't think they're practical or affordable (for me anyways). 


Now, here's the argument that I really hate, " you don't have cancer or MS... it's just hair"! I'd expect this from people with full heads of hair but not from someone who's obviously been through a lot of sh*t to try and remedy his problem with hair loss. There are 7 billion people on this planet and the overwhelming majority of them do not have cancer, MS ...but just because they don't have cancer that doesn't mean they should all be dancing and singing. There are a billion other problems and then some that can make our lives miserable and unlivable hell. One million people around the world commit suicide each year and countless millions attempt to. Countless millions use drugs and alcohol as a way to ease their pains or as a way to try and escape the reality of their situation...and I guarantee you the vast majority of these people DON'T have cancer or any terminal illnesses. 

The simple fact is that millions of men have had their lives completely ruined by this curse. We just don't hear about them because 1) men's suffering in general is always overlooked and marginalized and 2) they usually go live "under a rock" because they don't want to be ridiculed (by society) for being "whiney wimps" or "vain",.... If hair loss wasn't such a big deal to men -at least those who are emotionally affected by it- this site wouldn't exist, and neither would the other 100's of sites and the millions of members and men wouldn't be spending billions of dollars on snake oil products or legitimate ones to try and keep their hair. Just happened to finish reading an article that said British men see hair loss as worse than being financially broke or not having a partner in life. It also quoted some doctors saying some of their patients were suicidal (because of their hair loss). I'm pretty damn sure some of the men on this site know exactly what they mean.

So, no I don't have cancer and that's why I wouldn't know what it's like to have cancer...and that's exactly why to me my hair loss and the consequent problems is the worst thing that has happened to me. And this is coming from a guy who's seen all kinds of sh*t, tragedies and hardships ever since I was a child. Like I once told Spencer -through massaging on the Sunday show- " hair loss is our cancer", and he actually liked what I said. The other thing I want to mention is that about 4 years ago I was told by a specialist that I had MS. I was devastated but I can say not as much as I am now with this hair loss sh*t. (MRI showed negative results later).
The other thing, like I said before we're different and our reactions to the same problems are also different. There are men who don't give a crap about hair loss or even being disfigured. Others do. I don't know why but I happen to be in the latter. It's not that I choose to be miserable about it. If I could deal with hair loss I wouldn't have spent over $22,000 and 6 HTs and wouldn't have put my whole life on hold and lived like a hermit. And for the 3rd time, I happen to have BDD. Ask a psychologist what this can do to someone...

Anyway, I don't want to make this any longer and I don't want to turn this into a lecture but I really hope people would stop always quoting the " it's not cancer it's just hair loss...". For all I know hair loss can be more devastating (mentally) than anything and it can turn someone into a lifeless shell of a human.

----------


## northeastguy

I am going to wish you well with this journey. There are so many things we disagree on we would be just going in circles. However, I can't compare Cancer with Hairloss. I'm sorry, hairloss is NOT our cancer. There are so many people on this forum who have dealt with hairloss, got diagnosed with cancer and I assure you, none of them felt like they did when the Dr informed them of their potential death sentence. 
How we accept baldness is all about our personal perception. How we accept it is going to pave the path how we live our lives. plain and simple. Rewire that thought process and your going to be a lot happier long term.

Be well...

----------


## jetfan11

> I am going to wish you well with this journey. There are so many things we disagree on we would be just going in circles. However, I can't compare Cancer with Hairloss. I'm sorry, hairloss is NOT our cancer. There are so many people on this forum who have dealt with hairloss, got diagnosed with cancer and I assure you, none of them felt like they did when the Dr informed them of their potential death sentence. 
> How we accept baldness is all about our personal perception. How we accept it is going to pave the path how we live our lives. plain and simple. Rewire that thought process and your going to be a lot happier long term.
> 
> Be well...


 NEguy,

Any update on those beard hairs? ANy growth?  Also just to confirm you did 790 grafts of scalp then 891 of beard?  Do I have that right?

----------


## northeastguy

Hey Jetfan.... We did 891 beard grafts. It's only been a month so too soon to see effects of this procedure. I will say I am getting the occational pimple in the recipient areas so that's a good sign. End of May and I'll be seeing some effects.

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## 35YrsAfter

> Hey Jetfan.... We did 891 beard grafts. It's only been a month so too soon to see effects of this procedure. I will say I am getting the occational pimple in the recipient areas so that's a good sign. End of May and I'll be seeing some effects.


 Related to other beard hair cases, we recently had a patient return for additional beard grafts, 7 months after his previous necrotic scar repair surgery. Beard hair was used in both surgeries.  The major focus was a slick bald area in his lower donor area about the size of an ear.  Our patient had a strip surgery years ago and suffered necrosis, or death of tissue in that area.  He speculates it may have been caused by lack of adequate blood supply after the strip incision was stretched shut.

Word gets back to me that some doctors tell our patients when they are in the consult phase, that scalp hair barely grows in scar tissue if it grows at all.  

Scalp hair consistently/reliably grows with a decent yield in scar tissue when the surgery is properly performed.

Beard hair consistently/reliably grows with a decent yield in scar tissue when the surgery is properly performed.  ACell and PRP contribute to an optimal outcome.

This particular patient is the first of our patients I'm aware of to have beard hair grafted into slick bald formerly necrotic skin. At seven months we are seeing excellent growth and our patient is thrilled with his repair work.

Just wanted that to be an encouragement to men with limited traditional scalp donor seeking repair.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## jetfan11

> Related to other beard hair cases, we recently had a patient return for additional beard grafts, 7 months after his previous necrotic scar repair surgery. Beard hair was used in both surgeries.  The major focus was a slick bald area in his lower donor area about the size of an ear.  Our patient had a strip surgery years ago and suffered necrosis, or death of tissue in that area.  He speculates it may have been caused by lack of adequate blood supply after the strip incision was stretched shut.
> 
> Word gets back to me that some doctors tell our patients when they are in the consult phase, that scalp hair barely grows in scar tissue if it grows at all.  
> 
> Scalp hair consistently/reliably grows with a decent yield in scar tissue when the surgery is properly performed.
> 
> Beard hair consistently/reliably grows with a decent yield in scar tissue when the surgery is properly performed.  ACell and PRP contribute to an optimal outcome.
> 
> This particular patient is the first of our patients I'm aware of to have beard hair grafted into slick bald formerly necrotic skin. At seven months we are seeing excellent growth and our patient is thrilled with his repair work.
> ...


 Ne guy

Sorry to as again. What's the total graft count you've Hardin scars?

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## gillenator

northeast,

I can hardly wait to see your last BHB procedure to fully manifest.  I always wish you the best results my friend as you have come such a long way.  And as I have stated before, your transparency and willingness to share your story and repair journey is invaluable to hundreds of men seeking the same resolve.  And you are so humble about it my good friend.  Thank you.

Victim,

I think the point that northeast was making, and please NE correct me if I misunderstood, is that there is more to life worth living then our hair.  Now please let me be so humble to inform you that I experienced both.  MPB and terminal stage lung cancer.  I truly believe the reason was so that I could reach out to others who are suffering whether it be hair loss, cancer, or anything else that can beset us in life.  My prayer is that you get effective counseling and glad to read that you are taking the steps to get some.  You can still call me as one of my undergraduate degrees is in psychology with an emphasis in counseling.

But the larger reason is to share with you first hand how it sometimes takes something like terminal lung cancer in order for us to see that life in itself is precious.  Our hair loss is secondary to that.  Trust me, once the doctors tell you that you will not survive and the cancer is going to take your life, you begin to see that faith, family, and being a beacon in life is what matters the most.  Trust me, I have assisted a number of late stage cancer patients who have passed on.  Every one of them lost 100&#37; of their hair from chemo and/or radiation.  

Not one of them ever expressed any concern from their hair loss.  They all want to live and not die.  That's it.  Even the women who we would think would be devastated with hair loss from chemo never mention it because they are thinking more about the impact of their death on their family.  They say, "if only I could have more time to say the things that I have not said, and do the things that I should have done".

Until we see that life and our loved ones are the true "back drop" in our lives, any of the trials and tribulations that come our way should never take us down the path of desolation, unless we allow them to do so.  It is a choice.

Don't turn to drugs and/or alcohol.  I also work with homeless teens and homeless vets that live under bridges.  And a fair number of them are addicted to meth, heroin, and alcohol.  They are on a road to nowhere unless they are willing to forgive and accept themselves in life.  Willing to receive help.  I always ask them one on one if they want a change.  That takes courage when you live in a dark world for years on end.  For some, it's the normal.  It's sad.  And every time I leave to go back home, I thank God that I have a home, a sweet wife, another chance in life.

There are approximately 1800 homeless teen heroin addicts in Portland, OR living on the streets.  These are kids man!  None of them truly want to be there.  But their world is addiction and where they are going to get the next bag of heroin or else they are going to get really sick.  They panhandle and then go to the dope man.  That's it.  They know nothing else.

Trust me, there is more to life than that and until we can really see how bad life can get, do we begin to see our blessings in life.  Yes hair loss is hell but cancer, heroin addiction, homelessness is far worse.  You have blessings in your life.  You just are not willing to see them and count them.

You know when I lost my hair from chemo, my sweet wife told me that I looked good with a bald head.  I thought she was just trying to make me feel better but I eventually got used to it.   Later I came to grips with my appearance because I would rather be bald and be alive to love my family then to be buried with a full head of hair.  When my hair did start growing back, she told me that she liked me better bald with a goatee and she was not lying.  Even my barber told me I looked like I was breaking bad!

It's all perspective my friend.  When you can forgive yourself and then accept yourself for who you are not what you are, then hair loss is not the main issue in life and it never should be IMHO.  As I stated, my hair did eventually grow back but not as thick.  I don't care anymore.  I care so far more about bringing hope to those individuals who have none.  I care more whether my wife is happy or sad.  I care more about whether my 14 year old pug dog is suffering with his arthritis.  I care more if these homeless teens and Vietnam vets have enough to eat.

Remember, it isn't until the doctor says that you are going to die that you realize that there is more to life worth living than hair loss.

I am always as close as your phone my good friend... :Wink:

----------


## northeastguy

Gill you hit it right on the head. Great advise here and thank you for sharing your personal experiences. Recently I read a book titled the miracle of mindfulness. Its a great read for anyone who gets obsessed or finds themselves focused on irrelevant aspects of their life. When we do this, it often leads to anxiety and depression. From there it often snowballs. hair loss for so many can lead them down this path. Much of what DHT and anyone who struggles with hair loss does is get obsessed with the future and what baldness might do to them. Or how its might effect them. Instead life is passing them by. Live in the moment and try to enjoy the good things we are part of. 
Its not easy to do but for crying out loud, you have to try. Nothing drives me more insane than when someone is dealing with an issue and never puts any plan in motion. worrying does nothing but create more worries. Regarding hair loss, Set a plan, put it in autopilot, and focus on other positive things in your life. Or better yet, accept hair loss for what it is and move on. 

Gill, again thank you. And yes, I more than anyone will be eager to share the results from this BHT. Just letting time do its thing right now....

----------


## northeastguy

> Ne guy
> 
> Sorry to as again. What's the total graft count you've Hardin scars?


 920 scalp grafts and 891 beard grafts to date.... oh ya, there's 25 beard test grafts in there somewhere.

----------


## jetfan11

> 920 scalp grafts and 891 beard grafts to date.... oh ya, there's 25 beard test grafts in there somewhere.


 Thanks NE guy,

You are pretty much home.  I am doing my whole scar with beard hair with Cole soon.  Hope I get results like you did.  My scars just over a year old so I am doing everything I can do get scar as flat and smooth as possible before I go.  Had multiple cortizone shots and 1 session of vbeam.  Going to do 3 more vbeams to get the red out and maybe 1 last round of steroids to flatten for sure and giving it a go.

----------


## jetfan11

Victim,

I wouldnt rush to judge on hair systems.  Ive seen in person amazing results.  Completely undetectable. At least give it a try.  There is no permanent negative   drawbacks.  If it looks like crap or you dont like it just take it off.

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## gillenator

Northeast,

You're a good man hands down and it is so encouraging to read your posts.  You say it like it is and yet you're humble in spirit...that inspires me brother!

jetfan,

Wish you much success and nice to see that you're putting everything on your side before your upcoming procedure.

Hope you will share some pics like NorthEastGuy is doing so that it brings additional hope and resolve to many guys in need of the same type of repair.

There are far more guys in need of repair who are surfing these forums then actively posting.

The impact of transparency and success from both of you guys is far more reaching then we would ever imagine!

----------


## northeastguy

Jetfan.... I'm guessing you researched the safety of V beam? What did the clinic say? can you share what they get per session? I'm pretty sure it is a pulse dye laser which should be safe on hair born skin. Obviously your first concern would be doing damage to the hair follicles. I do know it helps with the redness mostly and may change the texture a little. I contacted the palomar group who has the 1540 erbium non ablative laser. They confirmed it is safe for the scalp and will not harm the hair follicles.

----------


## jetfan11

Gillenator,

You're absolutely right there are surely far more men seeking repair and guys like ejj and neguy are courageous and selfless for doing that. I will do the same.

Before you implore my sense morality and responsibility to post pics you may want to look in the mirror.  You are on this site and are paid by HT docs and promote strip surgeries.  Which in my guess at least 50% end in failure, disappointment or life altering scars both mental and physical.  This victim guy on here and countless others have suicidal thoughts and never regain their sense of self after these surgeries.  It has the highest rate of suicide than any other plastic surgery procedure in the world.  Tons of men hiding in shame and in wigs for the rest of their lives.   Its hard to see you here playing the compassionate voice of reason when youre promoting strip surgeries and being paid by the docs.  I know you fancy yourself a religious man and it sounds like you do want to help people here, but the best advice you can give is to encourage people not to do this at all.  Its very hypocritical of you. 

Make no mistake some man on here swayed by your expertise is going to get a strip surgery then end up desperate for repair combing through websites and pics to be repaired and you will have had a hand in his demise. Some other man may be swayed by your advice and have an absolutely flawless transplant but thats not the likelihood especially in the long run.  Regardless its an unnecesary procedure that has an extreme likelihood in failure.  10 good transplants dont outweigh the 10 tortured souls who end up desperate and scarred for life.  

I have no doubt that you have done a lot of good in your life and believe you are not doing anything wrong.  Id suggest you take a long deep look at yourself and what youre doing on this site. 

I will make deal with you.  I will post all my pics starting now and through my entire repair win lose or draw if you start advocating FUE or against doing strip.  Sound like a deal?

----------


## jetfan11

> Jetfan.... I'm guessing you researched the safety of V beam? What did the clinic say? can you share what they get per session? I'm pretty sure it is a pulse dye laser which should be safe on hair born skin. Obviously your first concern would be doing damage to the hair follicles. I do know it helps with the redness mostly and may change the texture a little. I contacted the palomar group who has the 1540 erbium non ablative laser. They confirmed it is safe for the scalp and will not harm the hair follicles.


 NEguy,

Did a ton of vbeam research.  Im 1 of those guys who gets red scars.  I broke both bones in my forearm playing football 25 years ago and its still a bit red.  I never got a 100% it wont harm hair follicles but I think Ive taken some good precautions.  I did 3 test patches on the scar first and had 3 gorgeous derm ladies holding all my hair away from the scar and holding guards above the hair as well.  Kind of embaressing.  I did my first full vbeam 6 weeks ago and it reduced the redness a bit and had no hairloss.  Planning on 3 more.  Then gonna give Cole a crack with the beard hair. In your case you look so good now I wouldn't risk it especially with all that hair in your scar.  You look awesome.  And with 891 beard hair on the way your home free.  

I doubt I will get as good a result as you as my scar is 5 to 12mm.  Awesome I know...but if I could get to a 3 or 4 clip with say 800 grafts 3 times a year apart I would sign up for that fate.  Im not up for a revision I have a ridiculously loose scalp and am prone to scar stretching and my donor is pretty week.  I dont think my donor hair could take another full blown cut.

----------


## topcat

One really has to appreciate the honesty in this thread.

Good luck to all the repair patients.

----------


## northeastguy

> NEguy,
> 
> Did a ton of vbeam research.  Im 1 of those guys who gets red scars.  I broke both bones in my forearm playing football 25 years ago and its still a bit red.  I never got a 100% it wont harm hair follicles but I think Ive taken some good precautions.  I did 3 test patches on the scar first and had 3 gorgeous derm ladies holding all my hair away from the scar and holding guards above the hair as well.  Kind of embaressing.  I did my first full vbeam 6 weeks ago and it reduced the redness a bit and had no hairloss.  Planning on 3 more.  Then gonna give Cole a crack with the beard hair. In your case you look so good now I wouldn't risk it especially with all that hair in your scar.  You look awesome.  And with 891 beard hair on the way your home free.  
> 
> I doubt I will get as good a result as you as my scar is 5 to 12mm.  Awesome I know...but if I could get to a 3 or 4 clip with say 800 grafts 3 times a year apart I would sign up for that fate.  Im not up for a revision I have a ridiculously loose scalp and am prone to scar stretching and my donor is pretty week.  I dont think my donor hair could take another full blown cut.


 I think if you hit that scar with 3 sessions your going to do a lot better than a 4 guard. The first session will tell it all. you'll get a good idea of what to expect from the following 2. Keep in mind that beard hair has a larger diameter than scalp so your going to get much more coverage. I'm not sure why you don't think you'll get similar results.... no reason you shouldn't. 
again, thanks for the support. very much appreciated.

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## jetfan11

Thx NE guy,

I hope so.  The following docs told me "no way" hair would grow in that scar:

Bernstein
Hasson
Feller


So it kind of makes me less optimistic. When I look at your pics I want to cancel the vbeams and just go do this tomorrow!  If I could get somewhere between a 2 and 4 clip even if it took 3 or 4 years I would be ecstatic.  Doesnt even have to look perfect just enought to move on from this would be just fine with me!

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> Thx NE guy,
> 
> I hope so.  The following docs told me "no way" hair would grow in that scar:
> 
> Bernstein
> Hasson
> Feller
> 
> 
> So it kind of makes me less optimistic. When I look at your pics I want to cancel the vbeams and just go do this tomorrow!  If I could get somewhere between a 2 and 4 clip even if it took 3 or 4 years I would be ecstatic.  Doesnt even have to look perfect just enought to move on from this would be just fine with me!


 I just put a side by side image together for our recent patient who had a rather large scar from necrosis (tissue death).  He is not photo release, so I can't currently post the image.  In the email I just sent, I'm going to see if he will allow me to post the photo.  Beard hair is growing in this area very well at only 7 months post-op.  Dr. Cole went with a low density the first pass to play it safe.  I have no doubt Dr. Cole could get beard hair to grow in your scar tissue.  I remember you from when you came in for your consultation.  Don't let naysayers lower your expectations.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## gillenator

jetfan,

Well thanks for the kind words and also for expressing your convictions regarding FUE.  Yet I will need to also state the "facts" regarding what I do relative to this area of hair restoration whether we are discussing FUHT or FUE.

Let me first make it clear to you that I do not promote FUHT or FUE.  I do not favor one over the other.  IMHO, they both have their place.  You show one post or thread where I am "promoting FUHT".  You can't because they don't exist.  I truly believe both methods still have benefits depending on each individual patient's case which includes their "goals and objectives".  Anyone who comes out with a terrible strip scar is obviously a nightmare I agree however most patients who do their homework including carefully choosing the right surgeon do not come out with those bad scars including myself.  Yet your choice of words never consider what others want, only what you think.

I have to date been through four separate FUHT procedures and still only have one thin and acceptable strip scar and was able to view it in its entirety when I lost all of my hair.  I say acceptable to me because my decisions and goals are quite different from yours.  And there are countless other FUHT patients with great results who are of the same opinion as myself.  And BTW, I never intend to wear my hair cropt or buzzed at any point in my life, and whether you realize it or not, there are still many men that feel the same way, especially those 35 years of age and older.  

The issue you are wrestling with is that because your strip scars were terrible by your own words not mine, you immediately take the position that FUHT is immoral.  You are wrong about that and it's okay with me that you disagree.  Who do you think you are to play judge and jury and impose your own convictions on the rest of us?  Myself and tons of other patients would rather have FUHT than FUE and that's our decision, not yours.  Get it?

But of course you are going to feel the way you do.  An extremely high percent of patients who have unbearable scarring from FUHT are going to have that opinion.  But what you don't get and may never get is that there are many of us FUHT patients that are very happy with our results and could not give a hoot about the linear scar in the back of our heads because again we never intend to buzz our scalps, and the strip scar is very fine and ok to us.  Quite frankly, we don't care what you think about our goals.  You have no right to push your opinions on others by tagging it with accusations and demeaning statements.  That only displays your immaturity.

Now in an extremely high percent of the cases where strip scars came out bad, it is without a doubt related to the incompetence of the surgeon.  In a smaller percent it's the physiology of the patient which may very well be the case of Victim.  Yet some of those individuals that went to an incompetent doctor never take any responsibility for making that poor uninformed choice.  And I am not trying to attempt to condemn your own decisions however "if" your strip scars came out thin and fine like many of us, your opinions would be very different, and you know it.

Look, before FUE was ever an option, the dialogue in the online communities was more related to end results, and who did the best work, dense packing, etc, etc.  Oh sure, every now and then when someone's results were poor and had visible scarring, the dialogue was then confined to bashing the doctor who did the procedure.  But rarely if ever did anyone bash FUHT methods because FUE was not known except in Australia.  A very small number of guys would bash doing "any" hair HT procedures and call all HT doctors bad.  They simply blame their own ignorance on the industry as a whole.

And the other very important fact that you fail to comment on is the fact that there are plenty of very poor FUE results!  Again, it is more attributable to the competence of the surgeon but then should the patient who got a bad FUE result bash FUE like you bash FUHT?  That's crazy!  Get a reality check.

By the way, you falsely accuse me of promoting surgery to others yet my posts are overwhelming informing patients to wait, use caution, or not do the procedure at all.  And I also told Victim "not to do any more surgery" and it does not matter whether it's FUHT or FUE.

Now, another clarification.  You don't have a clue what I do in this industry.  And I don't get paid to push HTs either.  I am a independent advocate and I spend an extremely high percent of my time offline as well as online helping patients in need of repair.  REPAIR.  Why in the world do you think that I reached out to Victim many times which takes endless hours of typing time to try and help him in his suffering?  You don't see me jumping on other threads trying to surf for business as you imply and I detest your accusations.  They have no merit and you know it.  Just read my posts on "any thread" or topic.

I am here to help those in dilemma, PERIOD.  I know who I am.  I sleep with a good conscience.  I have no problem looking in the mirror buddy.

And by the way, the five doctors at my signature "endorse" what I do to help other patients.  I don't earn a salary.  I don't earn commissions or bonuses.  I am not employed by any of them.  But they are men of high integrity and they do have the patient's best interest in mind, every time, and they have my highest respect.  And for your information, they all do both FUHT and FUE.  They offer both methods.  

I am not in this for the money because if I was, don't you think I have the background and ability to get rich in this industry "if" I wanted to?  Get real man.  The only and I repeat the only reason they support me is so that I never have to charge any patient for my help and/or support.  I have been doing this for a long time, ten years next month, and I have never charged anyone one red cent for it, and I never will.  When I take on a case, I have to get written consents, copies of B4 and after pics, there's a fair amount of phone and mail expense involved.

Now why don't you put your money where your mouth is and come to my office so you can see for yourself firsthand what I do rather then just ignorantly and falsely make your baseless accusations?  I promise to show you my bank account and the tax return that I file for my advocacy.  What you will discover is that I take in a mere $1150 per month to cover my overhead.  That's it buddy.  And I will show you every tax return for the past ten years so that you will also see that my words are true.

And just what do you think these other "doctor reps" make including their bonuses if any?  Ever think about that?  Yet they are in fact employees of the clinic and I will guarantee you that they make far, far more money "in salary", and other incentives.

Got any other questions?  Now look, obviously I am a little peeved right now having to spend my time explaining to you and anyone else who thinks I may be here to "sell" HTs.  But every now and then someone who got whacked from their own decision, not mine, decides to take their aggression out on someone else who is sincerely trying to help other hair loss sufferers so that they can get on with their life.  What I do in these forums has the same motives whether I am helping someone dying from cancer or someone addicted and homeless.  You don't see anyone else doing it for free do you?

If I offended you, I am sorry, yet you types get under my skin sometimes.

You know I do believe in God but please realize it's not you.

----------


## gillenator

jetfan,

One other thing.  I joined this community six years ago.  My YTD posts are 1200.  Divide 6 years into 1200 and you get 200.  Divide 200 by 12 months and you get 16.67 posts per month or 4 posts per week.

Someone who posts an average of 4 posts per week is hardly someone interested in earning an income from it.

Even the math tells all... :Wink:

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## VictimOfDHT

Thanks again, Northeast and thanks Gillenator for sharing your story and for offering to help. I just want to say that I'm not saying that hair loss is worse than cancer because I know it isn't, however, this is what my point is : I don't have cancer. What that means is that I DON'T know and I'd NEVER know what it would be like to have cancer UNLESS it happens to me. It is not possible for someone who doesn't have something to feel it. But what he will feel is what he actually has (whatever ailment or whatever that's causing his suffering). That's just the way we are. This is like telling someone who's lost a finger to not cry and complain because the guy next to him lost half of his arm. And telling the guy who lost half his arm not to complain because another guy lost his whole arm, and telling the guy who lost his arm to just be happy and thankful because another guy lost both of his hands..... It just doesn't work this way. Yes, the guy who lost a finger is in a much better place compared to the guy who lost both hands BUT at the end of the day he doesn't know what it feels like to have lost both hands, and the fact that someone else has lost both hands doesn't actually take away the fact he's lost a finger and he'd have to deal with the consequences and his own problems....

If we all sat down and just started comparing our problems with those of others around us we would have NO problems any more and suddenly our lives would be cream and peaches. Yeah so what I'm blind in one eye? That guy is blind in both. So what I've lost 2 kids? That guy lost 3 kids.... Right? No. I don't think that's how things work no matter what people say. Yes I know, some people are much stronger and can take sh*t and still have a smile but not all of us can. This is just another fact. Again, if hair loss hadn't bothered me in the way it did I would not have run to get HT after another and spent $22000.

And yes I don't have cancer but I've already lost my life (in many other ways). You guys don't know the amount of suffering and hardships -not hair loss related- I've gone through just about all my life, yet I kept going although barely. But this hair loss hell is the one I cannot deal with. I have been living like a hermit for many many long years. No social life or whatsoever. No dating and no women. Not even male friends except one. Looking for a decent job isn't even an option for me because I'm held hostage by my battle with hair loss and all the HTs... Like I said before, my whole life has literally been on hold for the past 15 years and now looks like forever. I can't go into all the details about all the things that are happening in my life and that are a direct outcome of my hair loss hell but all I can say is my life isn't better than a life of a prisoner. Yes, he's alive (in a cell) but what good is that? Add the mental anguish (in my case). 

I know we could go back and forth on this forever and neither one would probably accept the other's opinion but unfortunately, for me it is what it is. Yesterday I went to see my doctor and told him about what's happening for the first time. He prescribed some anti-depressant and he's going to try to find my a psychiatrist but he said it would take a long time to see someone, if ever. Meanwhile I'm waiting for some counseling. I don't know if any of that will help though if I continue to lose my hair...

Anyway, I'd still would love for a doctor here to give his opinion/advice on what's happening in my case and if there's anything at all I can do to try and hold on to the hair I have left. 

Thanks all for the replies. I hope we all realize we're here to at least talk about problems whether we agree on how we see things or not.

----------


## gillenator

Victim,

It takes a lot of courage to share you inner feelings in the place that you are.

And listen my friend, that's a good start.  As hard as it is, and believe me I know firsthand, things will get better.

One thing that I have observed from folks that suffer from hair loss, is that there is a broad range of psyche involved.  The same is true about people dying of cancer or someone who has lost both legs.

Roughly two years ago I met a young man at Walter Reed Nat'l Medical Center here in DC who was 32 years old, an Army Sergeant who lost both legs and one arm from an IED explosion in Afghanistan. 

For the first year or so, all I did was sit in silence, no words.  I waited and silently just prayed.  He clearly was not interested in conversing but eventually every time I asked him if he wanted to be alone, most times he shook his head no.  So I stayed.

One day, his wife stopped me as I walked my way down the corridor to the elevators , and she said, that was a huge step for him to acknowledge his feelings.

She was an angel.  She knew and believed he would eventually talk but it had to be on his terms.  So we all waited.

Eventually he said hi to me and said thank you.  That's it.  But that was enough for him and certainly enough for his wife.

I still visit him but now he has prosthetics and going through some very difficult physical therapy.  Present day he is talking and even has a dry sense of humor.  

He has come a long way and still has a long way to go.  

Just start from wherever you are and try to keep your mind focused on getting better.

It's a start Victim, don't worry about tomorrow too much because tomorrow will come and each day is a move in the right direction.

I wish you peace my good friend.  And you have two friends now... :Wink:

----------


## gillenator

Victim,

One other thing that you may want to consider when you are ready.  Your handle is "Victim".  As long as you call yourself Victim, might there be the chance that you will always see yourself as a victim?

If you give yourself a more positive name, it may help you to see yourself as someone different such as "MovingFoward" or "FormerVictim".

Just a thought...

----------


## jetfan11

I am not trying to start some argumentative thread here but we can agree to disagree on a lot of things.  You get paid 1100 dollars a month by HT docs who perform a surgery that has an extremely high probability of ending in disaster. Some right away some down the line. Because you dont make much money doing does not absolve you.  Maybe it makes you feel important or knowledgeable?  Maybe you want to help people?  Either way its irrelevant.   There is no question about that.  I mean this site is paid for by the docs to promote hair transplants and its littered with tortured souls trying desperately to live a normal life.  You need to take a good look at yourself and stop justifying your role here.  To quote my last post "some guy here is going to be swayed by your advice and end up regretting the rest of his life you will have played a hand in his demise"

And if you sleep at night knowing your presence on here is without a doubt swaying people to get this procedure thats on you.  Because its veiled as "patient advocate" or "do your research" means nothing.  Every high profile doctor have patients that get bad growth and bad scars.  If you blame it on the patient then shame on you thats very low.  If you have been on here 10 years and can only imagine the # of guys who got horrible results because of your input here. You can get angry, deny that very fact but its true.  Completely true. Strip surgeries are a dirty dirty business.  Many end in failure or a ruined life.  Thats a fact.  Nobody knows this better than you being in around the business for so long. 

I realize there are fantastic results.  But for every amazing result Id venture to guess there is at least 1 disaster.  The good result doesnt outweigh what this surgery can do to peoples lives.  Look at this Victim guys thread.  

Is it ok NE guy has 2 scars on his head probably never probably had a decent look with 5 transplants because someone else had a good result?

Is it ok this victim guy wants to kill himself because somebody else had a good transplant?

You need to look in the mirror and ask yourself these questions as you promote transplants for these docs.   

As for the scars most of it is not due to surgeon skill.  Its do to patient physiology.  My brother in law is a prominent NYC plastic surgeon and he has confirmed this.  I have also done much research and talked to lots of high end HT docs and they agree.  Why do you think the best surgeons can have some amazing scars and some horrible scars. Moreover very few people get 1 transplant.  Opening and closing those scars 2 3 times is asking for disaster no matter how good surgeon is.  

Look I do believe that you think you are doing a good deed here.  And there is some merit to researching this surgery beforehand and having someone like you be knowledgeable about the risks and conveying that.  But doing these surgeries is very risky its a game of russian roulette.  Ive read your posts and they are much more to side of promoting transplants than playing russian roulette.   

If you want to be an honest advocate here are the things that can go wrong and go wrong everyday in strips feel free to use this exact list when you are acting as an "independent patient advocate":

1-poor growth
2-need for multiple surgeries
3-stretched scars inability to cut hair short
4-shock loss of existing hair that may not grow back
5-shock loss of donor hair
6-thinning of donor hair reduced blood flow beneath the scar
7-Once you do a strip you may never be able to cut your hair short
8-you may lose the rest of your hair irregardless of propecia
9-if you maintain propecia your dick could stop working and the hair around your transplants can fall out
10-transplants are not permanent donor zone hair thins too
11-most people dont have enough donor hair 8000 grafts max over 2 or 3 surgeries wont give you a full head of hair

I could probably make the list a lot longer and you know it.

Bottomline this is risky business and all I ask of you is to take a long hard look at your role here and see it for what it really is.  We all have to be challenged by other people to see the truth. You seemed very angry in your response.  Sometimes those who anger us and challenge us do the most good for us in our lives. I believe you are a good person and I believe you think you are doing good here.  The reality is you are doing more harm than good.  You can dismiss me and get angry or you can challenge yourself to see the truth in what I am saying.  

Again Id implore you to take a big step back and ask yourself the question

"How many men on here took my advice and ended up getting a transplant and how many of them are miserable because of it?"

----------


## chicago99

I vote that we get back on target with what this thread is about.  We are lucky that NEguy is willing to share his story and I would hate to see him walk away from this thread because it has turned into a debate about strip vs fue or any other topic other than grafting into strip scars

----------


## northeastguy

> Thx NE guy,
> 
> I hope so.  The following docs told me "no way" hair would grow in that scar:
> 
> Bernstein
> Hasson
> Feller
> 
> 
> So it kind of makes me less optimistic. When I look at your pics I want to cancel the vbeams and just go do this tomorrow!  If I could get somewhere between a 2 and 4 clip even if it took 3 or 4 years I would be ecstatic.  Doesnt even have to look perfect just enought to move on from this would be just fine with me!


 Jetfan, I was told the same thing. Hair grows in scars. Period. At a high yield too. When a transplant Doctor tells you hair doesn't grow in scars, he's saying He can't get hair to grow in scars. One of my consults involved a Doctor to remain nameless, that told me the exact same thing you were told. He then proceeded to discuss doing another strip surgery that would increase the with and length of the upper scar. Your doing the right thing.

----------


## northeastguy

> I vote that we get back on target with what this thread is about.  We are lucky that NEguy is willing to share his story and I would hate to see him walk away from this thread because it has turned into a debate about strip vs fue or any other topic other than grafting into strip scars


 I won't be walking away anytime soon... I certainly don't mind debates that arise. It's healthy. I just wish these forums existed 20 years ago. 

Anyway, I'll soon be posting some donor site photo's of my neck. I won't have any shots of my head for 3-4 months so certainly don't mind other topics popping up.

----------


## jetfan11

> Jetfan, I was told the same thing. Hair grows in scars. Period. At a high yield too. When a transplant Doctor tells you hair doesn't grow in scars, he's saying He can't get hair to grow in scars. One of my consults involved a Doctor to remain nameless, that told me the exact same thing you were told. He then proceeded to discuss doing another strip surgery that would increase the with and length of the upper scar. Your doing the right thing.


 Im in.  Just want to get this scar in the best position possible for growth first.  The way I see it if I get good growth over a few procedure and I can cut my hair short I dont want to look back and say I wish I took my time and got the red out 1st.  So Im sold I think its my best option.  I like Dr Cole.  Im giving it a go.

----------


## jetfan11

> I vote that we get back on target with what this thread is about.  We are lucky that NEguy is willing to share his story and I would hate to see him walk away from this thread because it has turned into a debate about strip vs fue or any other topic other than grafting into strip scars


 Thats cool didnt mean to hijack the thread.  Just cant stand to see this guy play the concerned soldier here and take money HT surgeons and promote them at the same time on other parts of this site.  Hes obviously long since justified this to himself and doesnt realize the hypocrisy of it so we'll just leave it alone. And I agree these threads are great a lot of good guidance for repair.

----------


## jetfan11

> Jetfan, I was told the same thing. Hair grows in scars. Period. At a high yield too. When a transplant Doctor tells you hair doesn't grow in scars, he's saying He can't get hair to grow in scars. One of my consults involved a Doctor to remain nameless, that told me the exact same thing you were told. He then proceeded to discuss doing another strip surgery that would increase the with and length of the upper scar. Your doing the right thing.


 I remember you saying that earlier in the thread how hair wouldnt grow in the scar. Im all in.  Im going to give it a shot.  The way I look at it. If I do a test patch and have permanent scars then I just stop and then do a revision.  If I do a 1000 graft session and get a 30% yield Ill just stop.  In those scenarios I cant go backwards.  I cant make my situation worse.  

If it doesnt work thats ok.  No harm no foul. 

A revision that could a make my scar worse or B shock out more donor hair is too scary for me at this point.  

Even if i did 4 beard hair sessions and it took 4 years to cut my hair short...Im ok with that just some patience and no risk of making it worse. 

Seriously though thanks for posting this stuff.  I honestly get down sometimes and stare it your pics with a 2 guard to cheer myself up.....and i fancy myself a tough guy!

----------


## northeastguy

> I remember you saying that earlier in the thread how hair wouldnt grow in the scar. Im all in.  Im going to give it a shot.  The way I look at it. If I do a test patch and have permanent scars then I just stop and then do a revision.  If I do a 1000 graft session and get a 30% yield Ill just stop.  In those scenarios I cant go backwards.  I cant make my situation worse.  
> 
> If it doesnt work thats ok.  No harm no foul. 
> 
> A revision that could a make my scar worse or B shock out more donor hair is too scary for me at this point.  
> 
> Even if i did 4 beard hair sessions and it took 4 years to cut my hair short...Im ok with that just some patience and no risk of making it worse. 
> 
> Seriously though thanks for posting this stuff.  I honestly get down sometimes and stare it your pics with a 2 guard to cheer myself up.....and i fancy myself a tough guy!


 Hmmm I don't remember saying hair won't grow in a scar. Perhaps it was misread? Anyway, take it slow in the first pass and evaluate growth and scarring. If all goes well, you can always pick up the pace with the subsequent passes.

----------


## northeastguy

Got a good laugh at this....

http://screen.yahoo.com/comedy/bald-...213441012.html

----------


## jetfan11

> Hmmm I don't remember saying hair won't grow in a scar. Perhaps it was misread? Anyway, take it slow in the first pass and evaluate growth and scarring. If all goes well, you can always pick up the pace with the subsequent passes.


 Sorry NEguy I meant to say I remember you saying that prominent drs told you hair wouldnt grow in a scar not you saying that.  You are living proof of it!

----------


## jetfan11

how do you send a private message here?

----------


## northeastguy

Jet... do you have the ability to post a few photos of your scar? wet your hair first as it will make the scar easier to see. if someone can snap it while you hold up the hair all the better. you can even use tape to hold it up.

----------


## gillenator

jetfan,

Like I said my posts "speak for themselves" and that's the proof of what I do here along with my documentation to prove I do not benefit financially.  At least I can prove what I do and how I do it.  And you think I am angry?  Give me a break!

You could not put up even one thread or post where I am promoting strip surgery or promoting my endorsing docs because like I stated , "they don't exist".  So rather than run with your baseless accusations, let's see just one.  You can't and you know it.  Yet you conveniently play up to where you think you will be getting your next procedure.  How accommodating of you.

Why not just come here and hang out?  No you won't because you refuse to believe that anyone would actually have the right motives and reasons for being here.  And who is being the deceitful one?  PLEASE!!!!

Of course I need some level of support because I have bills associated with this. But at least I am not here to get rich or financially benefit off of anybody.   Like I said, I could have many years ago started my own community and built it up making a financial empire.  Or I could choose to work directly for a clinic on commissions and still make a lot of money.  Yet the reason I only charge $1100 total is because it just pays the bills of my office.  And I can prove that I don't pay myself any salary.  But you won't come to see will you?!  No, you would rather try and slam good ethical people and doctors to earn some free or discounted surgery right?  Do you think we are stupid here?  It's an old game you are playing.

But that's okay because I know what I do and yes it is by my choice to remain independent so that I am not "controlled" by a paycheck. 

You remind me of a guy who no longer posts in the forums who also insisted the same thing things playing judge and jury.  And as soon as he got his free surgery, he disappeared.  And yet you would rather swing your baseless axe, why, to try and show you are some kind of forum warrior?  Get a life.  People like you just cannot admit when they are wrong or like I said, there is some other motive behind it... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  

And although your types surface every now and then,  I really don't care because like I said, I never recruit people for strip or FUE.  And you can't even take someone else's own words of gratitude but insist they are being deceived.  That's pretty low.

Both techniques have their advantages, both have their disadvantages, period.  You just have not seen enough good FUHT work, nor will you ever take any other FUHT patient's satisfaction for what they state.  So you are going to just discount all of the other happy strip patients for the sake of tooting your horn and not admit there are plenty of bad FUE procedures being done.

You base your viewpoints on your own personal experience whether it was ignorance or physiology.  And I did state the latter to be the reason too in some cases.  That was not being cruel as you judge because some guys who get whacked do admit they rushed into it and blindly chose the doctor who swayed them.  

Those are their own words and take a lot of courage for someone to admit when they are wrong, something you seem allergic to.

----------


## gillenator

Don't think for one nanosecond that I don't know that you are being put up to what you are doing and who is really behind it!

----------


## jetfan11

Nobody's put me up to anything I've Always felt this way about your posts.  Instead of. Being upset or Angry or wielding some conspiracy theory just realize deep down you know I'm right and thats why you are upset.

It's hypocritical to promote these surgeries on 1 side of the forum and console patients on the other. That's all my friend and my point is plain as day.

Again instead of getting defensive see my point.

I have no clue what. You are talking about with free surgeries I make a ton of money and is the least of my concerns.

I don't think you are a bad person that's not my hunch at all.

----------


## jetfan11

One last thing. I'm not promoting fue or strip. I think both are an unnecessary risky endeavor!

I'm talking about you. You personally and the hypocrisy of promoting a surgery that most likely ends badly and then supporting the victims of that same surgery.

I dont have a problem with the sales people on here selling strip hell about half. People will probably end up thrilled.  At least they are honest.

Try this if I promote smoking cigarettes citing that not everyone gets sick and dies of cancer and then try to console the people with lung cancer that's being a hypocrite.

Let's stop going back and forth it's silly.

Give me your phone number or email and when possible I will come see you and say all this to your face.

Cool?

----------


## gillenator

jetfan,

Look, I hate these conflicts just as much as you.  Yet when I am accused of something that I know is not true, it gets very old.  If you were accused of being a terrorist and you know that you are not, would you keep your mouth shut?  I doubt it.  If you were wrongly charged with a crime that you were innocent of, would you hire an attorney and fight the charge or would you lay down?  My reputation means everything to me and not just in the world of surgical hair restoration.

I don't smoke anymore and the lung cancer was something that I brought upon myself and I take full responsibility for it.  I don't blame anyone including God.  It was my own will to refuse the good advice of my doctors and my loved ones.  I knew better but I still put those awful cigarettes in my mouth.  And you have to be told that you are going to die from it to appreciate the value of life itself.  I help people dying of cancer because I know what it is like to be dying.  That's it.  I am called to it.

But what I don't get is why you think I am promoting strip.  Why can't you just put up any post where you state that I am?  It's not true on any forum.  In addition, most of the posts that I contribute are to guys that already had their procedure.  Or I am always warning people of the risks of HT surgery, especially the young guys who are ready to dive into it.  None of my posts have ever promoted any part of the industry.  I did not give myself the handle "Gillenator".  Another doctor did because of my reputation to go after crooked docs and expose the unethical practices of the industry, especially the large hair mills who were and still are ruining many lives.  He said I was a terminator but used my name in the title.  That's the truth.

Look, it was not even my initial idea to be an independent advocate.  It was another HT doctor, Paul Rose who told me to do it because after quitting my last position working for a HT doctor clinic.  He said he would sponsor me so that I would be available to help patients, especially those in need of repair.  When I quit my last position in early 2004, I told Dr. Rose that I would never again work or be employed by any HT doctor or clinic.  Actually we both quit along with another doctor who now practices in Belgium and does very good work.  He was a tech at the time in the US and went to work for Dr. Rose in Florida.  We all quit at the same time for which I believe were for the same reasons.

Look, if I could afford the expenses myself, I would do it, in a heartbeat.  But most of the guys are broke after spending their entire bank on the procedure they are trying to get fixed.  

My background is in small business management and consulting and that was what I decide to do.  Actually I do not spend the majority of my time as an advocate.  Yet I kept getting emails and phone calls from guys that were disfigured from HT surgery or wanted their plugs and/or scars corrected.

When FUE was first being practiced and even up until this day, I still see both bad surgeries from "both FUHT and FUE".  You just have not seen enough bad FUE cases and pics or seen bad FUE in person like I have.  

Yet I am not against FUE as long as it is done with competence and integrity.  I am not against strip because there are many guys who have had great success with it including me.  We did our homework and chose the right talented doctors.  You have to let people decide what is best for their own situations, not our opinions.  My point is it has to be an informed decision.  My God, I tell guys all of the time that if they choose FUHT, there is always a chance they could end up with a bad strip scar and there is an extremely high chance they will never be able to buzz their scalp or even wear a short hair style.  That's what my posts state over ten years time.  They have never changed because my values never change.

When you come, I will show you my thin strip scar and you will have a hard time finding it.  The guys who do have physiological issues are indeed FUE candidates or if they want to wear a very short hair style.  That's what my posts state.

So is it any wonder why I am so very highly suspicious of why you attack me?  And you would feel any different?

Here's my number (703) 250- 1311.  Call me anytime.  I do a schedule C on my taxes.  I am totally transparent.

One last thing that affirmed my decision to be an independent advocate.  There was a guy named Joe from the Boston area that got whacked really bad from one of the hair mills.  He was ready to commit suicide over it.  I stayed up until 3 am consoling him.  My wife will attest to this unless you think she is a liar.  I helped him get 3 corrective procedures from a very honest talented strip doctor in MPLS.  FUE was not available back then and not even known. He got all three corrective procedures for free and the doctor even paid for his airline tickets all three trips and even paid for his hotel and food.

We did not have to help this guy.  It would have been easy for most people to turn a deaf ear to him.  Most of the so-called best docs turned him away because Joe was broke.  Somebody had to help him.

Believe it or not, there are still a few good men in this world that will try and help someone else who is suffering.  I don't know of anyone else that extends themselves in that way in this industry.  And I am not trying to toot my horn either.  But my God someone has to be willing to help another human being and not expect anything is return for it.

If we all took on those values and practiced them, this world might just be a better place.

I still wish you the very best in your upcoming procedure.  I truly hope you experience the same type of success that NEGuy has.

And look, this thread is supposed to be about his case, and the hope that it can bring to many guys like yourself.

This type of dialogue is not helping those who want to throw up reading it.

Peace to you my friend.... :Wink:

----------


## John P. Cole, MD

Gillenator had several strip surgeries that he is quite pleased with.  I've known him since well before FUE was available outside of Australia.  At that time, all we had was strip surgery so it's no wonder that the Gillenator had strip procedures.  He happens to have a very good result.  He is a good friend of mine, as well.  

Jetfan echoes the problem many strip patients have however.  One can easily sympathize with his perspective because he lives with a bad strip scar result.  One can understand his anger toward anyone associated with strip surgery.  

Gillenator is correct that there are many very bad FUE results today simply because physicians are not bothering to get training on how to perform FUE well.  Many FUE surgeons just by a Robot or hire a tech with no formal medical training to do their FUE work.  In that these physicians have no FUE experience, such physicians will make all the mistakes that have already been made.  Those who really understand FUE have made those mistakes over a decade back and they have discovered ways to avoid them.  When the physician does not do the surgery, the physician will never understand what is causing the mistakes and they have not sought training on how to avoid such mistakes.  They are not even aware of all the mistakes they are making.  In short, not all FUE is the same.  

Not all strips were the same either.  I had a predominance of fine strip scars.  Still on occasion, I had a strip scar that was 5 mm wide and there was no way to prevent it.  Other physicians get strip scars over 1 cm wide and I have idea how they cause such hideous results.  

While Gillenator has tremendous strip experience and a fine strip result, I think he is very much like I was way back in 2002 when I did not recognize all the values of FUE that make FUE hands down a better surgery than strip surgery.  I don't fault him for that.  I also recognize that he is not alone as most strip advocates in general dismiss the advantages of FUE or they do not recognize them.  

When you are happy with a result like Gillenator is, it is easy to understand how he can promote his results and the procedures that created them.  

Still, I stand strongly against strip surgery.  I find no rational reason to ever have one.  Physicians today offer FUE only because patients are demanding FUE.  Physicians are not taking the time to learn FUE.  Physicians are not making the time to learn how to properly perform good FUE.  They just want the money.  

If you venture back to look at what I said over 10 years ago about physician acceptance of FUE, you will see that what I said was dead on accurate.  At that time 10 years ago only 4 physicians in North America were interested in FUE; only one physician was doing FUE in Europe.  One physician was doing FUE in Australia.  Two US physicians who improperly named the procedure FUE were very much against FUE.  I stated at that time that FUE offered tremendous advantages over strip surgery.  I further stated that physicians would in general refuse to recognize these advantages.  Rather, it would take patient demand for FUE to inspire physicians to learn FUE.  That is exactly what happened.  Patients began to refuse to have physicians perform a strip so the physicians finally decided to offer FUE one way or the other.  

What I failed to expect was that physicians would be so greedy to make money that they would hire unlicensed individuals with no medical training to perform FUE rather than make the time to learn FUE from an experienced physician.  I did not expect a robotics company to manufacture a robot without making the time to learn about FUE from those who had the most FUE experience.  I did not assume that physicians would be so focused on making money that they would take all the wrong short cuts.  I guess I just forgot about why we have so many bad hair transplant results in general.  Physicians want money more than they want to provide quality results.  

Still there is very good FUE out there today.  One can avoid strip surgery altogether.  One can avoid bad FUE physicians and they can avoid bad strip physicians.  With good FUE, one can avoid all the bad complications of bad FUE.  With good strip surgery, one can't avoid the complications of strip surgery.  One can avoid these strip problems by avoiding strip surgery altogether.  The winner hands down is FUE.  

No matter what I say, there will always be some who feel strips are superior.  There will always be some who refuse to recognize the problems strips cause.  Most hair transplant physicians in general fall into these categories.  As such, I don't think anyone can blame someone who is happy with his strip results when he promotes strip surgery.  He is in the majority rather than the minority.  

Patients will over time continue to force more and more physicians to accept FUE.  What is unclear is whether physicians will at some point have enough pride in their work to get the proper training to do FUE well.

----------


## jetfan11

Geez.  I wish I never said anything this whole thing is counter productive at this point.  

To put a point on this thing my post to you Gillienator had nothing to do with strip vs fue or even good HT results versus bad ones.  Its a risky endeavor regardless of how great the doctor is and thats not debatable.   

My point was that I find it hypocritical of you to promote strip surgeries on this site and then turn around and console the victims of the very surgery you advocate thats all.  

You still dont seem to understand that.  Heres another analogy if you deal drugs to kids all day then turn around and help people in recovery youre a hypocrite.  Its a simple point.  

So to your point how you stayed up till 3am convincing someone not to kill themselves because of their butchered transplant does not absolve you from promoting it when you were a strip salesman or an independent advocate.  Nor does it tarnish the effort you made to help someone. 

Im sure you are an honest guy who believes he has done no harm.  I really do. 

My whole point was the hypocrisy of your actions.

Please just leave it at that.  Its clear you dont think you promote strip surgeries even after 9 years as a strip salesman and how many years being pro transplant on this site.  So lets just leave it alone.  

In the end my issue is my fault and my responsibility and ironically I have a lot of hair albeit it not perfect.  We all make mistakes we fix them the best we can and move on.

----------


## northeastguy

Been away from this post for a while.... did I miss anything? 

Anyway, I am Sorry for not getting these photos up soon enough. I was having issues with ingrown hairs and pimples. Still a little there but almost gone. I didn't want to display anything sooner due to concerns some would associate that with scaring. Its not. What I've learned is my skin is super sensitive and healed at a slower rate than I expected. Next pass I'll approach the post days much different. I see no signs of scarring via white dots or pitting what so ever. 981 grafts. Fingers are crossed they all grow. 

Here we are...

first photo is of course day of procedure. next three are 45 days post procedure pre and post shave.

----------


## gillenator

Awesome NE, very good extraction sites and bet they healed really well.

Can hardly wait for the regrowth pics as this could be it, meaning, achieving your goal... :Wink:

----------


## gillenator

Dr. Cole,

Very well stated.  I do think surgical hair restoration will eventually evolve to the isolated extraction techniques but as you already know, it's slow coming.  I remember when we used to work together and you showed me one of the first FUE results that some other doctor did.  It was horrifying and both of us were shocked at the result.  Yet FUE was in it's infancy then but had a huge impact on the viability of the methodology.  Then I believed you traveled overseas and witnessed some very good FUE work which I believed had a huge bearing on your outlook of FUE.  From my observation, you were clearly inspired.

And yes I am very happy with my strip results hands down.  I am from an era where the buzzed short hairstyle was not popular like it is today.  I still wear my hair length at 3 inches or so and maybe more like 4 inches on top.  I never intend to wear it any shorter.  And I continue to hear from guys who like me, are very happy with their strip procedure.

One of the things you pointed out was that there are still bad FUE results and I see them all of the time.  And it is because surgeons are still learning the technique, and as you know, does not develop overnight.  If you would be so kind to reply to a dilemma that I see from time to time.  Every now and then someone that had bad FUE emails his pics and his donor zone is so chewed up from large punches, sloppy extraction methods, etc, etc.  Some of them have so much collateral damage from bad FUE that the surrounding neighboring FUs appear damaged to the point that they may not be harvested for future coverage.  It is obvious that it is related to a lack of competency and skill.

I realize that strip excisions can do collateral damage as well but I think the point that you are making is physician competence and ethics in not perfecting their techniques.  I have for some time known you to be a 100% advocate of FUE over strip and when someone like yourself has demonstrated his FUE method and superb skills, it's no wonder to me why you are of this opinion. 

But here's the deal as well.  I have also seen more than several guys who went to a good established FUE doc and still their occipital zone looked horrible.  Was it physiological?  I really don't know but I do know that the surgeon does consistently good FUE work with many examples.  An example: there is a doctor in India, not Poswal, who opened his own clinic.  I will call him Dr. B so as to not invoke any controversy.  He only does FUE, no strip and he never learned strip to my knowledge.   

A good friend of mine here in DC recently got a 2800 graft FUE from him.  Actually he works for my wife.  He came to my office and the work is clean and he healed very well.  This was in January and he is just now beginning to show some mild regrowth.  I saw the work in person which is far better as you know that photos.

At roughly the same time, I received a PM and multiple emails from another patient of his who is also of Indian descent and lives in the country.  His results are worlds apart from my friend here.  And he is slamming the same doc.  His donor region looks very red, swollen, and the extraction sites are raised and puffy in appearance.  He cannot figure out why and neither can I.  

He swears that he made a huge mistake having the procedure.  My friend is singing about his procedure.

My opinions regarding either method are based on results.  What I don't know know is how can two different individuals of the same ethnic background go to the same doc and come out with opposite results?  I really cannot think of anything other than the physiological factor.  And I am not a physician like you so could it be a compromised auto-immune system, meds, who knows.  The same thing happens with strip only surgeons.  The same doc can have a horrible outcome and who knows why.  It does not matter if they are in the US or have an outstanding reputation in Canada.  It happens.  Yet some strip clinics have an overwhelming percent of happy FUHT patients, something that you or I cannot deny.

I always and I mean always tell guys both publicly and privately that whether they have FUHT or FUE, they may never be able to wear a short hair style.  There are no guarantees of the outcome.  Do the research on both methods to fully understand the risks associated with both.  And if the individual does want to wear a short or buzzed look, then FUE is the answer hands down.  I also state this on the forums.

But I am careful to respect the patient's goals and not impose my own.  Just because I am happy with my strip results including the one you did on me, does not mean others will be happy with it.  Obviously the ones who had bad strip scars will think strip is a crime.  And I clearly disagree.

But only at the present time.  When or if good competent FUE becomes firsthand in this field, then I will be convinced that it is the way to go and no other.  But overall I still see far better FUHT results than FUE, especially in overall yields.  Let me say this.  FUE in the right hands is the best way to go for anyone as long as they do not have other issues.  But who can always know that 100% percent of the time??

The truth of the matter is that I tell mature guys all of the time that HT surgery should be a last resort "if they must have hair".  So to me, it's not even so much an issue of whether having FUHT or FUE, it's more of an issue of do you understand what can go wrong and are you willing to take on that risk?  They must understand and accept the fact that scarring can occur and they may never be able to wear a short hair style in their lifetimes regardless of the method.

Lastly, keep up the good work my good friend and I sincerely thank you for your continued passion and desire to make this field a better one.

You always were a decade ahead of the times.. :Wink:

----------


## gillenator

jetfan,

The more that I read your posts the more I understand your hostile psyche.  You are not the first FUHT patient that is unhappy with their result that comes on these forums and attempts to criminalize strip or anyone "you think" promotes it.

Yet you selectively target me when there are others who are in fact employed by 100% FUHT clinics but you don't attack them.  And before you again start with your hypocritical rants, come to my office so you can see for yourself.  But you won't.  You just need someone to take your anger out on.  I've seen it a hundred times and more.  Go ahead if it makes you feel better.

As I said, I hope everything works out for you so that you can move on with your life... :Wink:

----------


## wylie

> One last thing that affirmed my decision to be an independent advocate.  There was a guy named Joe from the Boston area that got whacked really bad from one of the hair mills.  He was ready to commit suicide over it.  I stayed up until 3 am consoling him.  My wife will attest to this unless you think she is a liar.  I helped him get 3 corrective procedures from a very honest talented strip doctor in MPLS.  FUE was not available back then and not even known. He got all three corrective procedures for free and the doctor even paid for his airline tickets all three trips and even paid for his hotel and food.
> 
> We did not have to help this guy.  It would have been easy for most people to turn a deaf ear to him.  Most of the so-called best docs turned him away because Joe was broke.  Somebody had to help him.


 That's really nice to hear. I commend you and the doctor for taking a personal interest in helping this victim of an unscrupulous industry that, more often than not, puts profits before patients.

----------


## jetfan11

> jetfan,
> 
> The more that I read your posts the more I understand your hostile psyche.  You are not the first FUHT patient that is unhappy with their result that comes on these forums and attempts to criminalize strip or anyone "you think" promotes it.
> 
> Yet you selectively target me when there are others who are in fact employed by 100% FUHT clinics but you don't attack them.  And before you again start with your hypocritical rants, come to my office so you can see for yourself.  But you won't.  You just need someone to take your anger out on.  I've seen it a hundred times and more.  Go ahead if it makes you feel better.
> 
> As I said, I hope everything works out for you so that you can move on with your life...


 

I am not hostile.  And these are not rants.  Your responses seem irrational and from the psyche of someone that has devoted much of his life to something that has brought a great deal of misery to many people and has since justified this beyond recognition.  Moreover you are not answering any of my questions or even reading my responses.

I am not attacking the people who promote strip because they do just that. At least its an honest non hypocritical stance. They are here to promote the services of their clinics.   I am not deeming anyone evil or bad that promotes transplants. I have never said that.  A good transplant can be an amazing life changing experience and if you do FUE you can probably still go back to bald if it doesnt take which is why its gaining popularity and will probably take over.  

I have an issue with YOU promoting surgeries you know have a very high probability in failure and then consoling the victims from some high moral ground.  Its the essence of being hypocritical.  This is my point to you. In fact its the only point I am making.  

You actually proved my points in your last post.  Its almost laughable.  You say youve seen angry disfigured guys "a 100 times and more".  I dont doubt it!!! Being in the business of promoting strip surgeries for 9 years (I think you said 9) and advocating them here I bet its in the 10s of thousands!  You also proved my point with the 2 patients who had a 2 surgeries from the same doc and 1 turned out great the other not so much.  Whoa so you are saying HT strips are risky and may not work regardless of how good the doc is?  Interesting point for sure. Maybe it makes more sense to get FUE so you dont have irrepairable scarring...maybe....

As for coming to your office please give me a small break.  I work 80 hours a week and cover 4 states for my job i am not flying out to see some random guy on the internet who thinks its ok to promote strips and then console the victims and paint himself on some high moral ground.  Have much better things to do with my time.  Id be happy to talk on the phone or you can come out and see me. 

Your responses are very long drawn out and filled with anger.  Much of that anger and hostility comes from the fact that you have devoted much of your life to something that is very risky, often has failed outcomes and youve been called out on it and deep down you see the hypocrisy of advocating something dangerous for 20 some years and then consoling the victims of the very procedure you advocate.  

Lets please take this offline its a great thread NEguy is on his way and its very helpful. We could go back and forth for days and you are now just making stuff up like I am angry or I hate the whole HT industry neither of which is true.  Its very immature of you to do that.  You can email me at jetfan11@hotmail.com if you want.

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## gillenator

Look jetfan, you initiated the attack.  I responded to you and you keep feeding it.  That's on you.  Think whatever you want.  I know who I am and why I do what I do.  If you think it's hypocritical, then think that.  That's your prerogative.

But like I said, I understand your psyche, I have seen it many times before and that's my view of you whether you agree with it or not.

Peace...

----------


## gillenator

> That's really nice to hear. I commend you and the doctor for taking a personal interest in helping this victim of an unscrupulous industry that, more often than not, puts profits before patients.


 Thanks Wylie.  You know he never even thanked the doctor who helped him but that's not uncommon.  Helping others is not done because we expect a thank you.  It's done because it's the right thing to do... :Wink:

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## jetfan11

> Look jetfan, you initiated the attack.  I responded to you and you keep feeding it.  That's on you.  Think whatever you want.  I know who I am and why I do what I do.  If you think it's hypocritical, then think that.  That's your prerogative.
> 
> But like I said, I understand your psyche, I have seen it many times before and that's my view of you whether you agree with it or not.
> 
> Peace...


 
Wasn't an attack just i point I felt compelled to make.  I have no ill will or bad feelings about the discussion or you as a person.  Wish the best.  Glad you made it through your battle with cancer.

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## gillenator

> Wasn't an attack just i point I felt compelled to make.  I have no ill will or bad feelings about the discussion or you as a person.  Wish the best.  Glad you made it through your battle with cancer.


 Thanks for the kind words jetfan and I do truly wish you the best as well.  

This whole thing reminded me of something that was my fault.

When I was dying of cancer, I continued to check my emails and barely could crawl to my office to do so.  My precious wife kept telling me to give it up (ministry) and that my health was far more important.  I did not listen to her good advice.

Then one morning I went into my office and abruptly found that my computer was removed.  It was gone.  It made me very angry that she would do such a thing behind my back.  She had no right to do that!  I felt violated, I mean I really did.  

At the time she was running an errand and when she got home, I let her have it.  I told her it was morally wrong what she did, etc, etc.  I told her that when she was once very sick with an abdominal disorder, that she would still go into work and not rest herself as her doctor ordered, and she was being a hypocrite.

Then she started to cry.  And I mean she really cried and I could not console her for some time.  Later, she said it was not a matter of morals but that she simple was thinking of my leading myself into a grave. She said that I just did not understand why she did what she did.

She was right and I was wrong.  I learned that we cannot judge the hearts of others because there is always a chance that we might be wrong.

I reflected on who she was and not always what she did.  Because at the end of the day, we all make mistakes and who am I to judge her and cast the first stone?  She's a good woman and I probably would be dead if not for her.

Anyways, I sincerely hope that we can both allow this thread to be about FUE repair and I eagerly as you too await the results of NEGuy's last procedure.

I know that we both wish him the best in his long journey of repair.

----------


## northeastguy

Thanks guys...

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## jetfan11

> Thanks guys...


 
Neguy,

Hope your doing well.

Any signs of growth from those beard hairs?

----------


## northeastguy

Hi Jetfan... May 1 will be about 3 months so it's early. I do get the occasional pimple due to a blocked hair in the scars so I'd say that's a good sign of things growing. At month 4 post op ill experiment a little with my haircut. 
On another note, I met with a dermatologist who does laser and also did HT years ago. Confirmed with me pulse dye laser is the way to go. It will debulk, smooth, and improve the redness of the scar without harming any hair follicles. I will start with those treatments at month 4 or 5.

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## topcat

NEguy when you say debulk..............does that mean flatten or something else?

Thank you.

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## jetfan11

> NEguy when you say debulk..............does that mean flatten or something else?
> 
> Thank you.


 Neguy,

Thanks for update. Pimples at 3 months def a good sign for sure.

I completed two heavy rounds of vbeam and scar is dramatically less red.

It was redder than the devil.

For whatever my opinion is worth I wouldn't do the beam.

You look awesome right now and are close to being done I don't think it's worth the risk.

Also vbeams eliminate red by decreasing blood flow, which is very counter productive to grafts growing.

IMO you look awesome now worth the risk.

----------


## chicago99

Hey jet, did you get your fue into scar with dr. Cole?  If so, how many grafts? Thanks

----------


## jetfan11

> Hey jet, did you get your fue into scar with dr. Cole?  If so, how many grafts? Thanks


 
Hey Chicago,

Haven't hone to him yet. Trying to get this scar past mutant status 1st.

Also Im doing all beard hair.

Long way from home.

----------


## northeastguy

Topcat... yes debulk refers to the scars raised texture. it will essentially smoothen it out. it is by no means a keloid scar but the left side of the lower one is raised to the point it bothers me. I'm looking to achieve a smoother transition when I run my finger over it. 
Jet, Regarding the redness, I have to do the pulse dye laser. the shorter my hair is, the more visible this scar is due to the color variation between scalp and scar. Keep in mind the pink or redness is coming from superficial capillaries near the surface and those will not effect the circulation that is supplying the follicles.  Trust me, I asked him 3 different times..... "will this laser damage any hair that is in or around the scar?" No.

----------


## jetfan11

> Topcat... yes debulk refers to the scars raised texture. it will essentially smoothen it out. it is by no means a keloid scar but the left side of the lower one is raised to the point it bothers me. I'm looking to achieve a smoother transition when I run my finger over it. 
> Jet, Regarding the redness, I have to do the pulse dye laser. the shorter my hair is, the more visible this scar is due to the color variation between scalp and scar. Keep in mind the pink or redness is coming from superficial capillaries near the surface and those will not effect the circulation that is supplying the follicles.  Trust me, I asked him 3 different times..... "will this laser damage any hair that is in or around the scar?" No.


 You've done a great job neguy. Def looking good. I'm sure you'll be fine with beam. Maybe do a test patch of scar and let it sit for a month.

Keep seeing some amazing smp results on a shaved head. I think hair is better and who he'll knows what tattoo will look like in 10 years but seen some good pics.

----------


## Stevie R

> Topcat... yes debulk refers to the scars raised texture. it will essentially smoothen it out. it is by no means a keloid scar but the left side of the lower one is raised to the point it bothers me. I'm looking to achieve a smoother transition when I run my finger over it. 
> Jet, Regarding the redness, I have to do the pulse dye laser. the shorter my hair is, the more visible this scar is due to the color variation between scalp and scar. Keep in mind the pink or redness is coming from superficial capillaries near the surface and those will not effect the circulation that is supplying the follicles.  Trust me, I asked him 3 different times..... "will this laser damage any hair that is in or around the scar?" No.


 Debulk the hell out of that scar NE guy! Good hearing an update from ya, onward and upward bro!

----------


## northeastguy

Hey All... been a while. Unfortunately during the wait and grow stage there isn't much to report. I will post some photo's at the 6 month post beard grafting. I will say that the donor site looks fine. There is no way anyone would notice anything what so ever was done there.

----------


## pauldrew

I've heard so many controversial patients's stories about dr.cole. I saw some pictures and reviews from his patients, and didn't like attitude and responses. he seems to entitled nd charges too much. not for me

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> I've heard so many controversial patients's stories about dr.cole. I saw some pictures and reviews from his patients, and didn't like attitude and responses. he seems to entitled nd charges too much. not for me


 You mentioned leg hair grafts in another thread.  Living in the LA area did a Southern California doctor perform your surgery?  If so what is his name?

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## northeastguy

While reading Paul's very informative and educational post I realized its been sometime since I posted a good photo update. I did my own cut about 5 days ago. I'll post 6 month post beard grafting photos right after I have a professional cut my hair..... in the mean time. here's 5+ months. basically a 1,2, and 3 guard.

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## chicago99

Looks absolutely fantastic NE!  Thanks for the photo update.  Do you think you could pull off a 1 guard all over?  Looks like you could.

----------


## northeastguy

Well, without doing a little laser to even out the color It would be tough. I still don't think I have gotten close to full benefits from this last procedure yet...Beard grafting can take up to a full year to start growing. I will say this, I am very close to a 2 guard. very. I am positive if I did a one guard in 6 months or so, did a few passes with Pulse dye laser, and added Tricopigmentation ( temporary SMP) I will, without question get away with a 1 guard. 

Regarding Trico, I have been in communication with Dr Shapiro's facility who is now doing Trico. they have been for over a year now. I simply feel, if I want to achieve my goal, this will have a big impact. I'll know more over the next few months. I have an open dialogue with Nicole who has been very helpful. Whoever I choose will have extensive experience in this. For me that is invaluable. 
I will not risk doing permanent SMP. Way to risky. And from the feedback regarding Trico, I don't see why anyone would go any other route. Simply put, if someone has a problem with permanent SMP, it would be catastrophic.

----------


## gillenator

NE,

Your result from beard grafts continue to improve and definitely see more regrowth in both scars.

And I agree, there will be more regrowth coming since you are still barely halfway there in terms of time passing post-op.

Amazing results my good friend and very happy for you!

----------


## sweetpotato

OK.  I have lurked enough.  I have the same problem NE Guy and I am trying to do something about it.  I have 2 strip scars on the back of my head as well.  I am in my 40's.  I don't care that I am loosing hair anymore.  I just want to be a normal guy.  I want to be able to cut my hair short and look normal -  without the harsh fake front hairline and the freakin Frankenstein scars on the back of my head.  Here is what I do not understand:

You can find on the internet right now pictures of guys that have done scar grafting with amazing results.  One picture from Cole indicates the dude had only 80 grafts.  Another DR. has a picture of a guy that had 101 grafts in his strip scar.  Looking at the pictures, there is complete coverage  of the  strip scar.  Looks great and they have short, short haircuts!  However, you have had around 900 grafts in your 2 scars and it is not enough.  I don't understand.

Here is the kicker: seems like when the Dr.'s are in control of the messaging, the outcomes are great and the graft count is low - marketing!  But when the patient is in control of the messaging, the outcome is not so great and the graft count is much, much higher.  You are not the only example of this on the internet.

This is BaldTruth.  I would like some truth.

----------


## sweetpotato

northeastguy,

Since I got no response in a thread that otherwise seems pretty active, let me go at it a different way.

There are examples on the internet of guys getting their strip scars seemingly covered to the point that they can get very short hair cuts.  Some of these cases involved a much lower graft count into the scar.  There is a case that involved 80 grafts.  There is another case that involved 101 grafts - and this guy had really short hair... like 1 or 2 guard.  There are others, but lets just focus on those.

My thinking is that these guys got grafts made up of 3-4 hairs per graft into the scar.  Doing the math, that would give them about the same number of hairs that you are getting NE Guy (400ish per scar).  Seems like you are getting 1 hair grafts due to your objective.  Is that right?

----------


## chicago99

Hey NE, hope you have been well.  Any photo updates?  Any closer to doing the 1 guard?

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## gillenator

Hopefully, we will get some more updated pics from NEGuy soon... :Wink:

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## 35YrsAfter

> Hopefully, we will get some more updated pics from NEGuy soon...


 I haven't seen you post for a while.  Hope everything is good.

chuck

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## gillenator

I was wondering the same Chuck...it seems like the volume of activity has slowed down since the format here recently changed.  I liked the former format much better.

No longer receive email notices when new posts are made on these threads which is a nice feature especially when tracking certain thread topics.

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## northeastguy

Hey Guys. Sorry for the absence. Been a busy summer and I just wanted to take a break from this for a while..... just let things grow. I am at 7 months post beard grafting. I've been playing around with different hair cuts but tempt a 1 guard when the time is right. Tomorrow I am booking my first PDL... pulse dye laser appointment. I have to say, the lower scar's color is much improved. Not sure I'll need that many passes with the laser. I will do 2 to start as I am looking to improve the scars texture anyway. Once that is completed it is on to Trico with Dr Shapiro's group. I would like to do that early December. 

I am getting a cut this Saturday. I will have my hairdresser take a few photos to post. 

@ sweetpotato. I understand your confusion. Had I been happy with longer hair, I could have stopped after 1 session. I believe I went from a 6 guard to a 4 guard with full coverage. Once you get down to a 2 and 1 guard, you see much more of the scalp and any flaws that exist. I would venture to guess if these individuals who had 80-100 grafts buzzed to a 1 guard, you'd see it. Obviously they were happy with the results they got with one pass and didn't see themselves ever going shorter with a cut. That being the case, why do more. 
It's also about the area needing to be covered. Basic math..... Top scar was 19.5cm x .5cm and bottom was 15.5 x .5cm. that is 17.5 sq. cm. total. Based on my hair density, I would multiply that number by hairs needed per sq. cm to create a consistent blend of density at a short scalp visible cut. I did get a consult from Dr. Umar when I began this and he suggested 1500-1600 grafts would be needed and I think that's pretty much where I am. Hope this helps you and I wish you luck in your journey. If I can help out with any other questions please ask. 

again guys, so sorry for the absence.... Pics by Saturday.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> Once you get down to a 2 and 1 guard, you see much more of the scalp and any flaws that exist. I would venture to guess if these individuals who had 80-100 grafts buzzed to a 1 guard, you'd see it.


 You would see it.  You cut hair 1/8" long and every scalp imperfection shows.  The degree to which you see the scalp depends upon hair density, lighting and angle.  We had a patient in recently with an excellent strip scar.  His hair was approximately a #2 guard (1/4") length.  You couldn't see the scar when he held his head at certain angles.  When his head angle allows looking directly down the hair shafts, the scar became visible.

Actual hair length/clipper guard varies a little among clipper brands.

See guard = inches article.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## northeastguy

Ok, fresh from a haircut. Asked her to do a tighter fade. So photos are showing a 1 guard over the lower scar and a 2 guard over the upper scar. Hair on top is maybe a 3 but that was done to blend into my top hair which is a little longer. In certain lighting I can see a density difference, but that is because I am looking for it. the light area below the lower scar is a result of the "horses tail" Because the scalp was pulled up 3 times, the hair is no longer angled downward. It basically comes straight out. Giving the elusion of decreased density. In reality, that area has the same number of hairs per sq cm than the surrounding area. Just doesn't look that way do to angulation of the hair. This is where the Trico will make all the difference. Using it will fix up that issue no problem. In my case, a little will go a long way.  Long and short, photos at month 7 post beard grafting with a 1 and 2 guard....

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## chicago99

Hey NE, looks fantastic!  I can't believe the difference from when you started.  I could never tell you had any strip surgeries.  Quick questions:

1.  You mentioned you are getting PDL done to get rid of some of the redness.  I don't see any redness.  Where do you see it?  Is it more noticeable in person?

2.  Is the redness continuing to go down, or have you noticed that the redness has stayed the same for a while?  If so, at what point did the redness stop fading?

3.  Do you see a big difference between your pre-beard session and post?  It seems your results pre-beard sessions were equally fantastic.

4.  How did you get info about trick from Shapiro Clinic?  Their website gives no info.  It seems you have made the decision to go with them.  What did they tell you that convinced you to go with them?

Sorry for all the questions.  I greatly appreciate your input.   Thanks

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## topcat

Looks excellent..................I think you are pushing it with the ink.............but good luck.

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## chrisdav

Looks much better Northeastguy. Well done!

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## 35YrsAfter

> Long and short, photos at month 7 post beard grafting with a 1 and 2 guard....


 Not sure if Dr. Cole has any stats on a final result timeline for beard hair.  Speaking with patients, it seems to take longer than scalp hair.  One patient told me 14 months, another told me 2 years.

Anyway, there should be a lot more growth to come.

Chuck

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## hairlosskills

> Ok, fresh from a haircut. Asked her to do a tighter fade. So photos are showing a 1 guard over the lower scar and a 2 guard over the upper scar. Hair on top is maybe a 3 but that was done to blend into my top hair which is a little longer. In certain lighting I can see a density difference, but that is because I am looking for it. the light area below the lower scar is a result of the "horses tail" Because the scalp was pulled up 3 times, the hair is no longer angled downward. It basically comes straight out. Giving the elusion of decreased density. In reality, that area has the same number of hairs per sq cm than the surrounding area. Just doesn't look that way do to angulation of the hair. This is where the Trico will make all the difference. Using it will fix up that issue no problem. In my case, a little will go a long way.  Long and short, photos at month 7 post beard grafting with a 1 and 2 guard....


 hi NE guy, your scars look certainly undetectable to someone who doesn't know what to look for.

I have a strip scar, and im curious about what you mentioned above^^^

how many strips does it take to create the horses tail effect?

I see many people with only one strip surgery not have the horses tail effect.

does this flaw only apply to those who have had multiple strips from back in the day.? or is it more of a random occurrence.

thanks in advance.

----------


## northeastguy

Thanks all...

@ Chicago... the redness might look more obvious in person. I will say it seems to get better and better as time when on. Also, the shorter I go with my hair, the more I feel it can be seen. As far as a difference with beard, its hard to tell, its also very early and hoping I get a big growth over the next couple months. I knew Shapiro's group was doing SMP and more importantly Trico which is the temporary. it is the ONLY form of smp I would utilize. I contacted them and began communicating with the girl who does it for them. Second important factor for me is experience, and she has it. Its a good combo for me. 

@ hairlosskills... I don't have an answer to that question. I will say I am sure it has a lot to do with the surgeon's skill and amount of procedures. In my case, the lower scar was caused by 3 procedures and done by Peter J, Embriano. He was an optometrist gone HT surgeon so obviously lacking in the closure department. I don't know how much exposure an Optometrist gets closing wombs. My upper scar was done by Bernstein. He did 2 passes and there is no sign of a horses tail from his work. He is a dermatologist. Hope that helps. 

Yesterday I did my first pass with Laser. On the table for 2 passes. So I did end up trimming down to a 0 guard over the lower scar..... doesn't get much closer that this...

Photos include 1 pre photo with a 0 guard and 3 post procedures....

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## hairlosskills

Thanks for uyour reply NEguy. Your scars truly do look like theres been a significant improvement. I have to agree with topcat about smp, but you knoww whats best for you.  NEguy have you ever thought about going for a recell treatment? The results seem superior to any other scar treatment. I plan on recelling my scar. As of yesterday recell is moving along in the fda to be approved in the states

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## randomnolo

Hello to all.  Been following this thread and thought I'd share my experience.  I'm 38.  I first had a HT at age 23, after a bad break up made me totally self conscious about losing hair in my right temple area.  I felt it looked like a dog took a chunk right out of my hair.  At that age, I should have never done one.  I did my "research" on my webTV, since the internet still wasn't what it was today.  As you can imagine, I went into it with probably not the greatest knowledge of what I was getting into.  At that age, price was a big factor as well.  So I found a place down in Tampa Florida that I'm pretty sure was called Hair and Scalp Laser Clinic.  I went down there believing the whole thing was done via laser only to find out they only cortirized the incision and graft sites with a laser.  They did the initial incision "too low" closer the nape of the neck.  Inititally I was satisfied.  He established a hairline that wasn't too low for future hair loss but as we all know (now) that hairloss is a progressive thing and eventually I needed a second HT which I got done at age 29/30.  That yielded a fine, natural look and was performed by a local Dr. who was very forthcoming in expected results, scarring etc.  Didn't make promises as too scarring because everyone heals differently.  Again, hairloss is progressive and I was left with what seemed like horseshoe of hair on the front of transplanted hair, with receding hair behind it.  The right temple again was the biggest culprit (hair always seemed to thin out on that side first).

Of course at 23 and 30 years of age I was single without kids, so by now my biggest factor in not taking corrective action was financial, as I am now married with a 4 and 3 year old, and all I kept thinking about how that is money that could go toward them.  I went to the second dr. a couple of times.  Initially when he did my second surgery he was part of medical hair restoration group.  Since then he had gone solo and is ISHRS accredited.  I met with him about a year and a half ago, and because he was honest in relation to my goal which was to buzz down and the cost I put it off.  Anyways because of threads like this one and experiences shared here, I opted to have FUE into the scar two days ago.  Wish I knew how to post pics.  My goal is to get down to a four guard all over.  I don't plan on going on the same journey as Northeast guy as his was one extra ordinary journey.  If I'm not totally happy with the results of the FUE I will consider tatooing for the 3D effect with someone who has done it.  My Dr. had a couple of numbers but he insisted I let it heal as he feels pretty confident I will get close to what I told him my goal was.  The lastest (and last) procedure was 1000 grafts FUE with 260 going into the scar.  My scar had stretched 7mm at the corners.  We discussed scar revision with a tricophytic closure but he was sure I would get some stretching due to looseness/elasticity of my scar.  I have a scar on my elbow that was very telltale for him.

I hope that wasn't too over the place, just wanted to introduce myself and thank everyone who participated in this thread especially northeastguy, stevie r, the Dr. and others.  Like many here I just wanted some normalcy and I hope this provides it.  If I could turn back the clock I would have definitely not had the first one done, but what is done is done and then you have to decide what you are going to do.  I was blessed to have a supportive wife who encouraged me to shave despite the scar, but I just couldn't go that route.  She supported me every step of the way.  Once again, thanks to all of you.

----------


## northeastguy

thanks Randomnolo for the great post and sharing your story. Far too many of us out there in this situation. Sucks but in the end your going to find It'll all work out. One thing that sticks out is the support your getting from your wife. As shallow as some people are, I have noticed that women seem to be pretty supportive of this. Actually doesn't factor one way or another to be honest. We are our own worse critics. Be patient with the scar grafting. You may even want to do another pass after 8 months to a year. 4 guard is very doable and a reachable goal. even a 3 guard is...

once the photo's are on your computer, you can upload them using the attachment button above the box your typing in. Looks like a paperclip.

@ hairlosskills .... I do research Acell but there are simply not enough before and after photos for me to be convinced yet. If I get good results with my laser treatments, I basically get the same outcome. I do understand the SMP debate.... I follow it closely. Keep in mind, I am not talking about permanent ink SMP done at places like HIS. I would only use the temporary version. I would also only use what is necessary to blend the scar areas. I am not interested at all in doing my entire head. Thanks again!

----------


## randomnolo

Thanks, I have a google chrome book and an android phone.  If you or anyone has any idea how to do the picture thing with my devices I'll give it a shot.  I've always sucked at transfering pictures etc.  The Dr. I used is Dr. Scott Boden, I use his name because searching the site I saw that he is listed here.

As for my wife, I told her I had a HT while we were dating.  The only thing she made me promise was that I would never get a comb over.  As it got thinner recently and she knew I was unhappy with the appearance she would encourage me to "just shave it", "who cares about the scar I don't".  Problem is if you have ever dealt with this, you know you kind of become a prisoner to the scar.  I literally became more self conscious about the scar than the thinning front.  Dr. Boden suggested we could get a lot more density with another strip surgery, but I recently wasn't interested in that.  I really just want to conceal/camouflage the scar so I can buzz down evenly.  If I get to a three I would be ecstatic.  I try to be realistic about this.

So I'm learning here SMP is not permanent? Are there cancer risks associated with this as I stumbled upon on another thread on this site.  If the FUE grafting is close to what I want, I would consider a permanent tattoo that would blend in for that 3D look of no scar, but I'm nowhere near that stage.  Again this thread was wealth of information from so many contributors.  Thanks a bunch to all.

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## Somitsa

Your scar area is healing well and looks fine for the first week post-op. We are glad that you had a pleasant experience here.

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## chicago99

Hey northeast, hope you're doing well.  Any updated photos? How did laser turn out?

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## northeastguy

I have to say the laser has worked out great. Even with just one pass. scar is smoother and redness is all but gone. Oh, and no hair loss from it. So anyone concern about that can put that to rest. Going to make one more good pass on Oct 23rd. After the holidays, it'll be 1 guard and trico. by then I should have almost full growth from the beard grafting. it's been slow but with every cut it looks fuller.

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## chicago99

Great to hear! Thanks for the update

----------


## northeastguy

Had my 2nd, and most likely final pass with the Pulse dye laser Oct 23. Every day that passes the lower scar looks better and better. Only thing I am going to have to except is the horses tail and angulation of the hair below the scar from being pulled up and improperly closed over the course of 3 strip procedures. I'm hoping at a 1 guard or .5 guard in that area, it won't matter. Most likely will but should be ok. It'll look more like a skin fold. 
I will say this, beard hair takes a long time to grow. It does not abide by the 3 month dormant rule. 
Currently going to put together a date in January to visit Shapiro Medical Group and blend things using Trico pigmentation. 

I will post a few updated photo's in a couple weeks. After which, the next photo's will be before and after Trico using a .5-1 guard.

----------


## chicago99

Great to hear you are doing well NE!  Looking forward to seeing the updated pics.  How did the donor area heal in beard area?  Can you see any evidence of extraction from that area?  Thanks in advance.

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## northeastguy

There is no way anyone can tell I had any grafts taken from my beard. I can't even tell close up. early on if the lighting was right, I could tell a slight texture difference after I shaved but I can't even see that anymore. I'll post a photo of my neck area as well.

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## chicago99

Great to hear NE.

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## ejj

I know how it feels to get some peace of mind with these strip scars

all the best ne guy

ejj

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## gillenator

NEGuy,

Interesting to hear your experience with the beard grafts and the corresponding growth cycles of that particular donor source.  This may be why we are not hearing from many guys who had beard grafts used. Time will tell and hope the growth cycle last as long as possible.

BTW, if you get down to a .5 or even a number 1 guide, that's a great achievement IMHO.

Thanks again for the update... :Wink:

----------


## Have Hope3

Hello to everyone in this thread, 

Wow! It is such a relief, to know that there are options out there for guys like me who hate our strip scars. Reading through this thread has been very informative, and has given me a true vote of confidence that it is possible to do something about my scar. I am very happy for NorthEastguy and the many others who have had success with the coverage of their scars. Northeastguy, outstanding work! It looks great! As I get older (approaching 38) it is apparent that I must cut my hair shorter due to my continuous hair loss. Right now, my scar is visible if I go any shorter than a 6 guard. My goal is to get down to a 3 or 4 guard so I can cut my hair shorter on top. I have gone back and forth on what I should do. I have decided to go with the Fue into the scar method. I think my scar is about 5mm. I went for a pre-op and the doctor thought the first pass should be about 200-250 hairs. He didn't think that a scar revision would be beneficial for me.  After reading about the success NorthEastguy had with the Pulse dye laser, I was wondering if anyone thinks I should do that before the surgery? Is it better to do the Fue first or does it really not make a difference? I also want to go to a doctor who puts the hair follicles in ACELL before placing them into the scar. I know that each case is a little different, but do you think I can get down to the 3/4 guard after 2 passes?  Thanks for any info that any of you can pass along! 

-Have Hope3

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## dub

Have Hope,

Whether or not you need to treat your scar with a laser or other methods before or after and FUE into the scar depends on your scar. If you have a scar that is level with the surrounding scalp and is scalp coloured or slightly pink I would just graft into it as the FUE may help to reduce any pinkness. You should consult with a few doc's that have a track record of grafting into scars and only them. Off the top of my head you have Cole, Feriduni, Mwamba, Bisanga and Lorenzo if you read around there is a lot more top docs that you could also contact. There is cases out there of all types and sizes of scars getting a substantial improvement from FUE grafts.

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## Have Hope3

Hey Dub, Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I did consult with Dr. Cooley back in 2012. He was very open and honest with me. He thinks it might take a couple of passes to get down to the 3 guard. My scar still has some pink in it, so I was hoping that the first round of FUE would help with that. It is a little uneven in one small area but other than that seems to be pretty level. After reading about Northeastguys experience, it appears that I can possibly use the laser at a later date without effecting the transplanted hairs. I am hoping to get the first round of FUE sometime in February.

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## dub

Ya I follow northeastguy's results however I am not that active on this forum compared to others where my handle is dubhain if you look around you will find my blog. I had my scar grafted into in July of this year. In the run up to it I was concerned about a slight pinkness that I still had in my scar. I went to meet a plastic surgeon who does fraxel and we did a test patch a couple of months before my FUE. He said for my scar the fraxel would only speed up what would naturally happen to the pinkness over time, as that was my only concern I decided not to continue with it. 
It did indeed fade quite a bit in the run up to my procedure naturally. After the procedure however it went quite red again and really only started fading properly after 2.5 to 3 months post op. I am not sure how long you should wait post op to do laser treatments if you still feel they may be of help but I would definitely wait until the grafts are established before considering it.

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## Have Hope3

Dub, your 4 month post op pics look great! It is growing in very nicely. I think our stories are similar, and I am also looking to put this whole experience behind me. I don't want to have to think about this scar any more. I am a little nervous starting off with 400 Fue grafts. I was thinking of starting in the 225-250 range. Did you feel that the silicone gel helped?

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## dub

Only do what your comfortable with and if that is 200+ then there is nothing wrong with that I don't think. I am not sure if the silicone helped or not it may have but hard to know for sure. I did have very slightly raised scar tissue on the left in one small section that I could feel (maybe 1cm in length) the needling I did helped with that a bit and carried little risk once you use it properly. I think what was left leveled out the remainder with the fue

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## Have Hope3

I am looking to get my first round of FUE sometime in February. I have narrowed it down to Dr. Cole and Dr. Cooley.  Both of these doctors seem to have great reputations with scar repair. I will base my decision on availability, price, and convenience. Is it possible to get a repair without exposing the scar and shaving down all my hair in the back? Also, I have heard that the price has come down in the last year or two. Is that true? I will have to go right back to work the following Monday and would like to keep this matter private.  Hoping I can put this whole think behind me soon! Thanks

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## chicago99

Hey NE, hope you have been well.  Just wondering how the second laser treatment went?  Did it get rid of all the redness?  How long was the healing process?  Any pics?  Thanks in advance!

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## northeastguy

Hey All.....today I spent the morning with Nicole at Dr Shapiro's clinic to do a test with the temp SMP or Trico. Hopefully if all goes well we will go to town on monday. I will post some before and after photo's to see how SMP can compliment Not only scar repair but FUE in general. I'm exited about getting close to the final step of this journey. As for the beard grafting I did a year ago, its been a slow grow. It's early and some don't see much till 18-24 months so my fingers are crossed. At the very least, the SMP buys me time till that happens. I am currently sporting a .5-1 guard cut so not much hiding going on......stay tuned. 

chicago..... the second pass did great. really not much redness at all if any on that lower scar.

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## Stevie R

Hey Northeastguy! Man you have come a long way, and your scar looked awesome at the 7 month post op point so I bet your looking even greater now. Did you have to go to a 0 guard for the laser treatment? What exact laser did you do again and how many passes of laser did you get? Do you feel that head hair can take 18 months to grow as well? Or do you think it may take 18-24 for the hairs to get to the right thickness in the scar even with head hair? Anyway looking great man and as always thanks for posting your story on here, it looks amazing bro and I am sure I can speak for everyone when I say we are all happy for you.

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## chicago99

Hey Northeast, really happy things are coming along so well.  Looking forward to hearing about your experience with amp and pics.  Best of luck with the full session of amp if you the test turns out well.

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## Nicole007

> Hey All.....today I spent the morning with Nicole at Dr Shapiro's clinic to do a test with the temp SMP or Trico. Hopefully if all goes well we will go to town on monday. I will post some before and after photo's to see how SMP can compliment Not only scar repair but FUE in general. I'm exited about getting close to the final step of this journey. As for the beard grafting I did a year ago, its been a slow grow. It's early and some don't see much till 18-24 months so my fingers are crossed. At the very least, the SMP buys me time till that happens. I am currently sporting a .5-1 guard cut so not much hiding going on......stay tuned. 
> 
> chicago..... the second pass did great. really not much redness at all if any on that lower scar.


   Good morning northeast guy and friends, just wanted to pop in and say hi and express that we are very excited to be a part of finalizing this journey with you northeast. I'm Nicole the SMP specialist for Dr. Ron Shapiro and SMG.  If any of you have questions about trichopigmentation (temporary SMP), please feel free to contact me. I am trained in both permanent and trichopigmentation (temporary) SMP technique, and, am happy to provide everyone information as a neutral resource. We actually just got back from completing some advanced training with Milena in Italy so we are very excited about the year to come and to share any new advancements, etc. You can email me directly at nicole@shapiromedical.com. And, I'll do a better job of keeping up with questions on here at well.  I look forward to talking to you all and will be excited to discuss northeasts progress with you all along the way.

 Trichopigmentation is more of a process than a "one and done treatment" and it may take multiple treatments to achieve the desired result. Northeast completed Day 1-2 of his treatment process and we are anticipating that we will see him two more times. Day 1 we  really did more of a test patch than a treatment. We wanted to watch how his skin reacted to the pigmentation and see what kind of swelling he was going to experience.  We had him rest over the weekend and then completed day 2. Generally speaking we space each scar treatment 4 weeks apart. We give the skin a full skin shedding cycle to heal. His Day 2 we considered really just the first pass. We like to move very slowly so that we are careful to avoid any type of pigment migration that may result from over treating the skin.   Also, scar tissue (as I'm sure has been said) is extremely unpredictable from a pigmentation standpoint. Because of the FUE and laser treatments he is in a good position to start this process because he has better circulation and collagen production. 
What we are monitoring for before we move on is: 
1. Migration - we anticipate that the dots will grow approximately 10% with healing so we plan ahead and space the dots a correct distance apart to allow for some growth. Yet, keep them very still as micro-representations of hair follicles. It is very important that the dots stay tight and individual. 
2. Pigment Retention: we do no blending in the first sessions because sometimes the scar will reject all the pigment and if we have put pigment into the healthy tissue surrounding the scar and it all takes  it can create a highlight! This is the more common phenomena  in trichopigmentation. 
We will double and then triple his density at the next sessions. . . . . . . . . . . .
                                                                                          . . . . . . . . . . . . 
                                                                                           . . . . . . . . . . . . . 
This is a rough example, but, say that is the base. Now you see I have room to add more between these dots. Dots are never placed on top on one another, always next to and between to add darkness and density.  This creates an irregular and natural pattern. (I know those look like straight lines and that pigmentation does not do that --  bear with me on that example). 

The first session doesn't make a huge difference, it's really just the beginning and setting him up for success in the next treatments.  We expect that after the third treatment is when it will be most desirable. 

Thank you everyone, 

Nicole

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## Nicole007

. . . . . . . . . . . . 
 . . . . . . . . . . . . 
. . . . . . . .  . . . . .

This is what the diagram was supposed to appear like  :Smile:

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## northeastguy

Hey All,

Spent a good part of the day Friday with Nicole getting the second pass done. Here is a pre-photo I took outside just prior to the session. Once everything calms down and settles a bit I'll post a photo of the results from that session. I will be seeing her for 2 more visits... those however will be back to back in April. My current cut is a .5 up the back to a 1 guard on top mostly. I will not know what length I will be able to get away with till all sessions are done..... it is a process. 
Also, I feel a have A LOT of beard growth to come.

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## northeastguy

Thought I'd throw this in.... this is a magnified view of the test pass we did last month. shows how small the dots are.

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## northeastguy

Photo is Post 2nd pass SMP at day 5. hair is between a .5 guard and a 1 guard. I ended up trimming this cut a little shorter after the session so it might look a little different in length from the above photo. Also, the ingrown hair is gone   :Wink:  I will still post in a week or so after everything calms down and I do a fresh 1 guard cut for a good comparison.

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## sweetpotato

Wow.  That's short.  Looks so much better. With your hair that short I now think the people better understand why you insisted on SMP - especially looking at the small thumbnail picture (though If it were a little longer I don't think you would need it).

So cool that you are sharing.  You  have helped a lot of people by doing this.  

I ended up getting Dr. Cole to put in around 500 in my 2-ish scars - about 250 per scar.  Did this back in Sept. 2014.  Now, it looks soooooooo much better. 

I am down from an 8 guard to a 5 guard, and its strong.  Here is what I mean when I say "strong" : before the procedure I used a 8 guard and it was weak.  That is to say that if the hair gaped, gathered, or moved - a NAKED scar line would be exposed.  After the procedure, I am down to a strong 5 guard.  If the hair moves, the scar is still covered since hairs are in it.   I go down to 4 guard in areas but keep it at 5 in the scar areas.

In the past, when my wife or my daughters or anyone, would touch the back of my head I would quickly react, cover, move away.  Now... I'm good.  Also, in church I do not worry about people staring at the back of my head.  I could go on and on.  Anyway, what I am saying is that Dr. Cole and team has given me a certain freedom back and the angst is over... finally.

I DON'T THINK  I WOULD HAVE HAD THE GUTS TO DO IT WITHOUT YOUR THREAD HERE.  THANKS!!!

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## northeastguy

Sweetpotato thanks for the feedback and love hearing that other people with scars are finding a little relief. You are very correct... when I am at a 2 guard the scar is totally unnoticeable. I would stay here but the hair on the top of my head from older grafting stands up a little funny and isn't a good look. I need to be at a 1 guard or just grow out and do a fade to longer length on top so it rests flat. I see Nicole 1 more visit and hope to put this to rest for a while. In the mean time, I'm sure the beard grafting will give me a little more growth.

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## northeastguy

Was playing around with some Dermmatch (very little used) over the weekend. That's a 1 guard folks and this is the result. I look at this and feel very optimistic about my next visit with Nicole. This should be the look I end up with..... hoping anyway. I see her 1st week in April. Photo's to follow.

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## robodoc

Dr Cole did an excellent job on me but his staff had much to desire.  I was pressured into having body hair, one tech asked embarrassing questions, another little girl seemed like she was not trained as well as some others but the cake was the man I paid.  He was unpleasant, unsmiling and got a serious attitude from him.   His staff let me down and I would have second thoughts about going there, besides the "house" for lack of a better word was small, cramped and really not suited to do medical procedures......having said that Cole himself did impressive work so go knowing some of the pitfalls.    Oh, and Cole charged me $2800 for body hair grafts and none grew in which I was not told in advance.  There was in my case some pressure to have as much work done as possible.

Cole would not be for everyone and he never offered, I did not expect, to repay me for the failed body hair grafts he did NOT tell me do not grow....Glad the NEGuy had a good experience....it just is not a classy operation.

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## sweetpotato

> ... when I am at a 2 guard the scar is totally unnoticeable. I would stay here but the hair on the top of my head from older grafting stands up a little funny and isn't a good look. I need to be at a 1 guard or just grow out and do a fade to longer length on top so it rests flat.


 OK. Try this.  It sounds stupid but works.  Wet/wash your hair.  Slowly and carefully pull a  stocking cap over your head... leaving your face out of course (I am sure your wife has some hose you can use to make it).  Black guys do this all the time.  It makes the hair lay down against your scalp.  Do this first thing in the morning when you are getting ready.  Then, brush teeth, shave, dress, eat, etc.  Pull the stocking off here and there and put it on again.  This avoids odd stick ups or whatever!  After about 20 minutes or so, hair lays down (time depends on hair texture and the initial wetness helps with the process).  Some black guys sleep with the stocking cap.  It works.  Simply and cheap.  My grafts stick up at a 90 degree angle so I do this to make my hair lay forward.  My top is a 4 guard but it should work at a 2 guard.

Yeah... go ahead and laugh... but try it.

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## sweetpotato

Don't leave us hanging northeastguy.  How did the 3rd session turn out?

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## gillenator

robodoc,

Are you a repair patient?  If not, than you definitely want to stick with scalp donor with FUE.  Sorry, don't know anything about your case so I don't want to make any assumptions.

Anyways, do some extensive research on BH and you'll find the information you need because BH should only be considered as a last resort including repair.

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## northeastguy

So finally I am posting After photos of the entire process. I am hopeful I have a lot more FUE growth to come, mostly from the beard session....another 10 months will be the full 2 years on that. 
I saw Nicole at Shapiro Medical Group almost 2 weeks ago for my final pass of Temporary SMP. I wanted everything to settle a bit before I posted the final photo's. I had a great experience with her and the staff I met. I can't say enough good things about my experience and how appreciative I am for all they did. The same goes for my experience with Dr Cole. 
The results are a product of FUE grafting, pulse dye laser, and Temporary SMP.... 2 years and 10 months to the day tomorrow... I am convinced that proper repair of strip scars should involve not only a combination of 2 or more of what I utilized but those cases that involve very wide scars, scar revision should be used. The most important however, is FUE. NOTHING is going to replace the look of real growing hair coming from the scalp. everything else enhances this effect and camouflages the scar even more. Without the SMP, I would not be able to cut my hair as short as it is right now. After experimenting with various lengths, it was a purchase of a 1.5 guard ( 3/16" or 4.5mm length) that worked best for me.... I included a pre 2 guard cut just prior to any work done.

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## sweetpotato

Looks amazing! Judging from the photo no one would ever know.  I would really like to see an updated video.  I say this because photos do not always show what the eye can see in real life - nor does a video (unless HD) but it comes closer.  You must be so relieved now that this is behind you.  On another note, have you lost weight?  Your head/neck looks as though you have.  But maybe its just camera behavior.

Congrats!!!  And thanks again for sharing!!!

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## sweetpotato

Northeastguy. I cut my hair down to a 4 guard in the scar areas and saw what you were talking about in some of your previous posts.  It looks OK but if I look real hard in strong light I notice thinned areas. Guys like us that have had numerous strip procedures have a lot of stretched scalp on the back of our heads.  In certain spots  around the scars it seems like the hair is noticeably thinner due to the stretched skin/increased amount of spacing between the hairs (I don't have the dove tail thing that you talked about).  Only SMP can help with some of those issues.  

It's been quite a journey for you and what you have learned and shared with others is a big, big help to all.  I am sure you are ready to get on with your life and enjoy not having to think about scar coverage all the time.  Oh, and forget the request for a video.  I again read you "final" post (even your photos are titled "final").  I am sure your are wanting to move on.  THANKS AGAIN!

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## Aztec

Dear Northeastguy, thank you for all of your help, guidance, and knowledge. You are one of the few who always took the time to respond and offer genuine feedback that was extremely helpful. Your transformation is simply inspiring and you look awesome. In my honest opinion, you defeated all odds and conquered the nightmare. Thanks again for everything pal and I will spread the love. Peace and all the best to you. Gillenator, Topcat, StevieR, I am forever greatful to all of you as well!

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## Nicole007

Hey northeast, here are all your photo's from SMG! Better late than never! You were amazing to work with. We appreciated your patience and understanding in that tricopigmentation is indeed a process. Working with scar tissue is as Dr. Cole stated - unpredictable. It's better to work slow and stay ahead of any anticipated problems than try to work backwards and try to correct! "Do no harm" always our motto.

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## chicago99

Great results, especially after 3rd session.  Nicole, what number guard is his hair cut at in those pictures? Thanks

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## aim4hair

Northeastguy, 
U've came along way. The result is amazing and now your donor looks clean. 
How short you keep your hair now in the recepient area? And are you planning to do anything on recepient area to fix the angles lf transplanted hair and make them not stick up?

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## northeastguy

Had a haircut today so wanted to post an update. This is a 1 guard cut. taken with flash. I'll try getting an outside photo with natural light over the next day or so. next to it is the 2 guard cut I did before Dr Coles first session. Without the combination of both treatments, I would not be able to cut this short. Absolutely no way. Even the laser helped and to be honest, every little bit was needed. I still have a ways to go but for now I will let everything grow and use SMP to blend. Thanks for the posting Nicole.... and all your help. aim4hair those lenghs range from .5 to 1.5 guard. .5 will be my goal and hope to make another pass maybe late fall with SMP at a .5 guard and see what we end up with. that would also be almost 20 months post beard grafting and more time for the scars to heal up.

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## jekas

You can get a Hair Tattoo from ********* in Toronto to put an end to your baldness

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## pusheject

Hi Jetfan, came across this post as I too might be visiting Dr Cole for beard and scalp into scar. Did you ever go through with it ? How are you doing ?

Best,

Push.

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## pusheject

You look great NEguy.......what a great thread. Thanks for sharing.

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## robodoc

SMG was half of Cole fee and maybe just as good.  Been to both.

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## northeastguy

OK.... so I guess its time for an update. I need to be a lot better with this thread going forward. In a way I've been trying not to focus so much on the repair process and live my life but lately there has been to much action regarding my repair so its time to update. during the SMP sessions with Nicole I have developed a very good relationship with Dr Ron Shapiro. We ended up putting a different plan together that involved combining additional FUE to the scar and incorporating the semi permanent SMP. My scar edge is very dense so it made sense to remove the FU's from that area to assist in evening out the density. I did one small FUE session Back in September followed by SMP into the scar this past January. This Thursday and Friday I will do another SMP throughout the scalp to blend followed by another FUE session the next day. I will be sporting a .5 guard cut for this one. Next month we are going to add the 12,000 FU we cloned..... Just kidding. But seriously people, what the hell is taking so long!

I have been beyond lucky to have been helped out by both Dr Cole and Dr Shapiro. I could not have been in better hands each time.  

As for SMP, here is my opinion.... Trico or Temporary SMP is great. I loved it. It addend just enough density and helped blend the scar. Problem for me is it didn't last nearly as long as I was hoping. about 6 months. Personally I think its a great way for someone to introduce themselves into the idea. It gives them a chance to evaluate how they like it without the commitment. I liked it enough to move into the more semi permanent process.... should last up to 3-4 years. Again, allows me to change my mind as I get older. My opinion is the permanent is a horrible idea. We just don't know enough about it long term and God forbid something goes wrong. With the newer Semi-permanent it doesn't make sense. My idea of the perfect Hair replacement plan involves SMP at some level. Especially in scar repair. 

I'm a bit more nervous about this go around. not sure why. I think I'm putting a lot of hope the removal of the FU along the hair line will make a big difference. Time will tell..... about 8 months worth. I promise to get more photos as the healing progresses. 

So Thursday it's SMP with Nicole and Friday its FUE with Dr Ron.....

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## Therealdeal23

I have been following this thread very closely for a long time. I too, have a similar strip scar and this thread has been very helpful. Northeast guy, with enough scar grafting (multiple sessions) and the combo of SMP into the scar, does the scar look good at different hair lengths? I understand smp looks best at a 0 guard because it most closely mimics the stubble and when the hair grows out, the 2d smp and 3D hair don't blend well. However, in your experience, with the FUE into the scar, there is also hair growing out of the scar to give it the 3D look. Therefore, can you wear your hair at a 1, 2, and 3? This is the only thing stopping me from going this same route. I want to be able to cut my head to a 0 but also won't be maintaining it every week so want to know if the hair still looks good grown out to other lengths.

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## southeastguy

Northeastguy...do you recommend FUE with Cole or Shapiro? I am beginning the journey you just finished and need a place to start. I have a 25cm strip scar that is .5cm wide that I got from a 2007 surgery with Dr Feller. I got only 1,600 grafts and I was 20 years old. Really dumb surgery and I was completely mislead by Doctor Feller. I have not had any surgeries since then and am really unhappy with the front work and even more unhappy with the scar. 

Also, do you recommend to try temporary SMP or FUE into scar first? I wanted to try SMP to see how it looked before I jump into the more invasive FUE.

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## northeastguy

Hi Southeast guy. Sorry for the delay and hope you're doing well. Also sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience with Dr. Feller. In regards to your question,  you named two outstanding physicians. I honestly think you would be safe with both. ironically, I will be at Dr. Schapiro's clinic at the end of next week. We will be doing temporary SMP or Trico pigmentation. We will post some before and after photos. Yes, I do feel SMP has a big impact on Scar repair and camouflage.  Nothing is going to replace FUE into the scar and should be the primary task. The  SMP or Trico essentially ties it all together.  Be patient as you will likely need a few passes of FUE over a course of about two years.  I am sort of coming to the end of my journey with this. I will likely just do Traco going forward.  Doing more FUE has not been beneficial. I seem to be very safe now at a 1.5 (with Trico) or two guard length. Be careful with  permanent SMP. It did not match my skin tone at all and I needed to have it removed. That set me back almost 9 months. I had some shock loss from the laser. Lately I've noticed things are improving  substantially. Reach out if you have any questions be happy to help.

https://youtu.be/LRAWRKafXZE

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## northeastguy

zero God is extremely difficult to achieve if you have a scar. I have not seen anyone who has been able to completely hide it at that length. You can achieve great improvement but you will ultimately still  be able to see it. There is often scar raising or depression, that may have a lot to do with it. When your hair is slightly longer 1 to 2 guard, that seems to resolve the issue.  For me I have learned the magic number is 1.5 to 2 guard. Now that we added some FUE between the sides and the top a 2 guard is a nice look.  I am very happy with that length as it is still a nice short cut. I will post some photossoon. I see Dr. Schapiro next week for SMP work. 

QUOTE=Therealdeal23;254035]I have been following this thread very closely for a long time. I too, have a similar strip scar and this thread has been very helpful. Northeast guy, with enough scar grafting (multiple sessions) and the combo of SMP into the scar, does the scar look good at different hair lengths? I understand smp looks best at a 0 guard because it most closely mimics the stubble and when the hair grows out, the 2d smp and 3D hair don't blend well. However, in your experience, with the FUE into the scar, there is also hair growing out of the scar to give it the 3D look. Therefore, can you wear your hair at a 1, 2, and 3? This is the only thing stopping me from going this same route. I want to be able to cut my head to a 0 but also won't be maintaining it every week so want to know if the hair still looks good grown out to other lengths.[/QUOTE]

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## southeastguy

Thanks for the reply Northeastguy. Your thread has been an inspiration to change my life so I want to thank you for being so honest about your experience. I am planning on going with Shapiro medical for my first pass of FUE with Dr. David Josephitis. They recommended about 30 hairs/cm2 in the first pass. I plan on using only scalp hairs since I have a good donor. How many total hairs/cm2 did you use to get to the result you are at today? Also, how many passes did you do on the scar?

I recently did a session of Trichopigmentation and while the session was successful, the contrast of missing hair with a 1 or 2 guard is very noticeable. I hope that the hair from FUE will be the answer to this problem. Im not a big fan of a 0 guard so I hope that I can follow your path and be content with a 1 or 2 guard.

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## northeastguy

Stick with scalp hair. If you're curious have him do about 10 beard grafts in the scar to see how well it takes. I did not have success with beard hair in the scar. We did test beard hair on the scalp and I think I had some success.  I  had 10 placed on the scalp and we will count out what took on Thursday. The other issue I had with beard grafting was ingrown hair's and it left bumps in the area where the extractions we're done. Right now, unless you are completely depleted with scalp hAir,  I would stay away from beard grafting. Again, it's OK to test and see how well it takes in your scar. You're already having a procedure so why not test.  If you make your goal a 2 guard, you're setting yourself up for likely success. That is an extremely reasonable goal. Again, be patient and do "multiple" passes. Then, by adding the temporary pigmentation you Will likely achieve your goal.  Honestly, if you have success with the grafting and stick with a two guard, you may not even need pigmentation. Cross that road in a couple of years. Good luck.

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## wylie

You know, I have had about 10 strip surgeries from the early 1990's to 2000, and while the surgeries themselves cost me around $50,000 to repair, using beard hair and scalp hair (mainly beard hair), at least the butcher doctor left me with nice thin strip scars. 

But the problem was I had all that bald space where the strip scars were and I had to grow my hair long in the back to cover them up. I had Dr. Cole add about 500 beard hair to my scars, which grew well, but I needed much more work. That's where Dr. Umar came in, because about the only thing I would trust Cole with is working on a scar. His history in repairing patients hair who have been disfigured is an ugly one, and I'm not going into detail, other than to say I have first hand experience and realized he is not proficient in repairing your hair. I had that part done by Dr. Umar, who also dropped close to 2000 beard hair grafts into all the scars (over multiple sessions) and the results were amazing. But you are still dealing with less hair in the scars than the surrounding area, so what one needs to do is camouflage the area with SMP. I had Nicole at Shapiro add this to my scars and it gave the confidence to shave my hair to a #1 in back, and I have 100% confidence in my appearance, at least regarding my 10 strip scars. 

This is the reason I'm commenting on this thread: Shaving my hair in back to a #1 guard has actually proved to be better than leaving it long in back. If I had it long in back I would not only have the wiry beard hairs sticking out but it would be noticeably thinner in spots. With it cut very close like I have it, the beard hair helps fill in the gaps but the SMP makes it look like there is hair in the scars and fills in the areas without beard hair. So my advice to anyone wanting to fix their scars is:

First step: Add beard hair to the scars. There is no substitute for actual growing hair when it comes to concealment. Beard hair works great, it is thicker than scalp hair and gives more coverage. The problem with this is there is only one doctor that I know of in the U.S. I trust with this, and that is Dr. Umar. I'm fairly sure there are plenty more doctors in the U.S. who have gained experience since I completed my repair (2014) but I don't know who they are. If you go with someone without the requisite experience you waste valuable resources: $$ and beard hair, and one (maybe both) are finite resources. You dont want to waste either. 

Second step: Now you need camouflage to the scars to fill in the gaps left by the beard hair addition. I personally would never recommend permanent SMP. That can easily create new, and permanent, problems. The risks far outweigh the gains. Temporary SMP works great, and touchups cost $400. They say you can go for a year between sessions but I go for two, and I'm going to go three on this one. 

It's fairly simple: Add hair and camouflage. And when both are added, you might be surprised to find out cutting your hair *shorter* provides better concealment to your scars than having long hair that is noticeably thinner in some areas. It did for me.

Also, northeastguy, you started this thread 5 years ago and you are still working on this? What is preventing you from finishing up your scar repair? I wish you the best and hope you come to a conclusion soon. I never thought that I would cut my hair to a #1 guard, but then again I never thought I would go out in public without wearing my hat. Without beard hair, I would be doing neither. I barely had enough scalp hair to repair my hairline, and the rest was all beard, over 5000 grafts. Not to sound dramatic here, but the truth is, beard hair saved my life. I didn't know how much longer I could keep wearing a hat after 20 years of doing so.

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## southeastguy

I want to thank both of you (Northeast and Wiley) for sharing your story. There is at least hope out there for guys with strips that wan't to cut their hair short.

To all the guys who have had their strip scars repaired (Northeast and Wiley) I was wondering how many grafts/cm2 do you guys have in your scar to get to where you are today. Native hair is 80/100 grafts cm2. I am just wondering how close you need to get to that figure for the hair to blend nicely at a #1-#2. Also, how many passes did it take for you to get there. I am assuming I will need at least 2 passes of maybe 30 grafts/cm2 each. That would get me to around 60 grafts/cm2 if they all grew. Do you think that is enough to get the job done if I supplement with Trichopigmentation?

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## Therealdeal23

I am so glad that you responded to this thread I was afraid you stopped checking. Every SMP place I have called has said that it looks best shaved down or at a 0 guard so that the SMP most closely matches the stubble. They said keeping your hair at a 1 or 2 guard would deem it noticeable. These are the opinions of Matt Lullo from scalp micro USA and Jae Pak from NewHair (some of the best known and most successful SMP providers in the entire business and their results speak for themselves). I've also spoke to another clinic and they told me the same thing. While they say it will still be noticeable if one is examing and scrutinizing the scalp, about 90% camo is achieved and it will go fairly unnoticed by just about any casual observer. I asked if I were to pack the scar with hair would it look okay grown out at different lengths and they said yes while it may help, grown out at a 1 or 2 guard would still be more noticeable than 0 guard and probably not achieve the camo you would want and def draw more attention. That is why I am so intrigued with you actually having gone through it saying a 1 or 2 is better than a 0 (assuming you have hair in it). Northeast guy is there any way I would be able to speak over phone or email? You've been a complete inspiration to many patients like myself I just needed some insight and help from someone who has been trough the journey. I've gotten many different opinions from many different people and just need some clarity. Please let me know.

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## Therealdeal23

Pictures like this make me skeptical of Dr. Cole's work. The description says 447 grafts were added + 3 sessions of SMP. That strip scar is compleltey unnnoticeable and just seems to good to be true. Is that photoshop perhaps? I would LOVE for it not to be but man..what do you guys think? Dr. Cole has many cases of FUE into scar where the coverage is outstanding..I can recall two other cases also where the scar seems to be tremendously camoflauged and just about gone. How can such a result be possible? Pictures like this give me hope and I pray these are the actual results Dr. Cole has produced and not some form of editing because that would be downright wrong.

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## southeastguy

@Therealdeal23...

I did temporary smp so I can speak to that part of this. If you are planning on shaving every single day then temporary smp is a good option by itself and grafts may not help all that much. However, if you plan on having any length of hair at all, you will need to graft into the scar and supplement with temporary smp. Do the temporary smp first. Its quick and easy and will give you some immediate relief.

We notice scars because of the contrast of hair, then a bald spot, and then more hair. I am soon to go in for my first FUE into scar and I am strongly convinced that I will have tremendous success at a #2 and hopefully a #1 if the grafts grow. Speak to Eric at Aheadink. He will explain wll of this to you and his results were incredible.

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## Therealdeal23

So technically speaking, it is possible to 0 guard (or shave whatever looks best with SMP) and then let the hair grow to a 1 and 2 with little problem if you have SMP and a scar pretty densely packed with hair? So you would be able to for example go to a barber and get a 0 and then let it grow and not maintain a 0 every couple of days assuming you have hair in it and it would look good? I mean, ultimately that is the dream because that would be like almost being back to normal.

Personally, knowing what I now know, I would never reccomend FUT to anyone but that is just my personal opinion. FUE or no transplant at all.

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## southeastguy

Its really up to your level of comfort. I personally think you are going to be safer with getting a number 1 and letting that grow out for a week or two. I feel that a 0 will be more obvious than a 1 or 2. I agree that you should do FUE or nothing. The only guys who should be getting strips are guys over 50 years old who know with 100% certainty they will never want to go below a #4. To get good scar coverage you will probably need 2 or 3 smaller sessions of no more than 25 grafts/cm2 on the first session. Make sure you find the right Doctor for the FUE into scar. I am happy to share my results with you in the coming months.

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## Therealdeal23

I completey agree. My hair loss wasn't hereditary or due to male pattern baldness. I suffered from traction alopecia as a result of the way I tied my hair under my turban (I'm Sikh very common in Sikh males) and it took my hair loss to a Norwood 3 with my temples also losing some hair. There is no extreme hair loss in my family either so FUE literally was designed for something like my case but I let a surgeon sell me on FUT and he left a wide scar (3-5mm) too low on my head under the occipital bump. I completely agree with you...if you're of older age and advanced hair loss and have gone 40-50 years without ever really wearing your hair short..then by all means go for it. In just about any other case, I wouldn't recommend it to my worst enemy.

I would love for you to keep us updated with your repair. If you don't mind, would you be able to email me some pics of your SMP and how it looked? I will be starting my repair journey soon and hope to keep you all updated also.

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## Therealdeal23

I've narrowed my FUE into scar down to Dr. Umar, Dr. Cole, and maybe Tejinder Bhatti in India (price of $1.5 a graft and proven results/ISHRS recommended and best surgeon in India in my opinion.). Price, to me, is the last thing on my mind but if you can get a bargain and great results no harm. I'm leaning Umar because of his extensive work and proven documented results. Even Dr. Cole seems to be a great option but his pictures seem TOO good to be true and I'm just not sure..would you care to comment on that northeastguy? Do you think all the cases he posts himself are legit and not edited? It is VERY easy to edit pictures..I can edit anyone's strip scar to disappear in about 2 minutes in photoshop.

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## southeastguy

Im not sure how to send photos in the forum. Just make sure for SMP you go to someone who uses temporary SMP and is using "Beauty Medical" Products from Milenna Lardi. You can look that up on the internet who uses her products.

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## Therealdeal23

Southeastguy, have you thought of getting a scar revision first? Much easier to graft into and SMP a thin scar. I read in your profile that it is .5cm (same as mine). Have you ever considered going to a top doctor who's really good in closures like Dr. Wong, Dr. Lindsey, etc and see if they can reduce it? I'm planning a scar revision first only problem is it's a bit low on my head and it may not improve. If your scar is at/above the occipital bump, the best doctors are usually VERY confident they can improve it. They told me of laxity is good and it is not too low on the head, very rarely do they not get an improvement. But yes, there is always risk and some guys just don't even wanna go through the process of getting cut open again but in my opinion if the doctor is confident they can get an improvement it is worth it to try.

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## southeastguy

I wouldn't touch a scar revision with a 10-foot pole. I have spoken to nearly a dozen doctors (including Lindsey) and not one could give me a guarantee that a scar revision would make it better. If I had a 1cm+ scar in width I would consider it out of a lack of other options. But with a .5cm width the idea should be immediately thrown out. After all, what made the scar go to .5cm in the first place.

My suggestion to you is:

1. Get temporary SMP into scar immediately (2-3 sessions - cheap, painless, immediate results)
2. Find an FUE into scar doctor that has proven success. I am getting my FUE with Shapiro Medical Group in MN. They said 80% of the grafts grow in the scar. I visited them in person and think that they run a very honest, competent practice. You should check them out. *I have not had the procedure done so I can't speak for my results at this time.
3. Assuming the grafts grow, go back for a 2nd session 12 months later.

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## Therealdeal23

I'm going to graft the scar and wait for the SMP afterwards but I completely understand doing SMP first as it does give you results right away. Technically speaking, isn't it possible to keep packing the scar with grafts to achieve a higher density? I understand for most average wife scars about .5cm you might need 600-700 grafts in total to give you a solid result..but what if you continued to pack it with say, 900-1000+ (assuming donor isn't an issue). What if you wanted to even pack it with 1200? This is all hypothetical and I'm not saying someone should use all that donor for a scar but technically speaking if someone wanted to, woould it give an even better result or is it not really going to make a noticeable difference? Imaging packing a scar with 1000 grafts and SMPing it...would anyone really be able to notice there was a strip scar there??

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## southeastguy

From what I have learned, you probably want to get to around 50-60 grafts/cm2 and then SMP should make up the difference. Native hair is 80-100 grafts/cm2. It depends on how long your scar is. My scar is 25cm long X .5cm which is 12.5 grafts/cm2. If you do the math I am probably looking at 500-600 grafts over two sessions. My guess is that at some point you will get diminishing marginal returns and it just won't make sense to keep grafting, not to mention each graft is another tiny scar. The scar will always be there, but the idea is that you are making it tough for the average person to notice it in a social situation. I am not trying to trick a hair transplant doctor that I don't have a strip scar....I am trying to trick the average person who sits behind me at a concert or walks past me at the mall.

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## Therealdeal23

That makes sense. I'm leaning more towards the semi permanent SMP. I think getting touch ups every 2-3 years would be perfect as it isn't too often but at the same time isn't completely permanent. I might try temporary first though to see how I like it but ultimatley I want something that lasts a little longer. 

It sucks that we have to go through this. I'm rooting for you and please keep us updated southeastguy. We need more of these cases online. Also, northeastguy please do not stop updating this thread even if people are not responding. There are countless people who aren't users that constantly are on forums reading threads like these and hoping for updates as I was one for the longest time. I hope we all can get to the point where we can style our hair how we want and not constantly dread what we have done to ourselves.

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## southeastguy

@Northeastguy...who at Shapiro has done your FUE into scar? I am scheduled with Dr. Josephitus and don't know much about him. Do you have any insight? I know Dr. Ron is a legend, but do you think Dr. Joe can get the job done?

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## Therealdeal23

Also, northeastguy when they did your SMP into the scar did they do it with ur hair shaved down to a 0 to most closely resemble the stubble or did they do it with your hair at the length you wanted (1.5-2 guard)? If you were to go a 0, would the SMP still match up with the surrounding stubble?

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## southeastguy

@Therealdeal23. Eric at Aheadink, who did mine, told me that its the same procedure whether your hair is a 0 or a 2. He is just making tiny dots. I did my procedure at a 0 which makes it easier for the practitioner to work because there is no hair in the way that obstructs their view. Right now I keep my hair at a 1.5-2 guard and there is so much volume loss from the scar it is difficult to even see the SMP. There is no question that the SMP looks best when you shave everyday. With longer hair it is almost unnoticeable. I am hoping the FUE will solve that problem. Hope this helps.

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## Therealdeal23

Southeastguy, would you mind exchanging emails privately so I can see pictures of your procedure? It would be a tremendous help. I can't find out how to send a private message on this site...not even sure it lets me.

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## southeastguy

-

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## northeastguy

Hi Wylie,

glad to hear from you. Sorry for the delay in replying... I think we agree on a few things. first, nothing replaces the effects you get from real hair. Nothing. The SMP does a great job camouflaging the rest of the scar. So we agree on that. I do recommend however, If someone chooses to use beard hair, I recommend a good test. have them Implanted into the scar and wait a year. If there is growth before.... your good to go. I unfortunately did not wait for growth. was more concerned about scaring around the neck area so once that was safe I went with the beard grafting. I did not have success with grafting beard hair into the scar. I did have success with it growing into my scalp. That info leads me to your other question.... why after 5 years am I still working on this. Well, I lost a full year waiting for the beard hair to grow. I also lost a good 10 months waiting to have to Semi-permanent SMP to be removed and the shock loss to reverse. The tone was a very bad match for my skin tone. We learned the Temporary SMP was best. That's almost 2 years! I am also a perfectionist and its taken me this long to realize I will have to settle for a length that might be longer than I was hoping for but still achieve my goal of hiding the scar with a buzz cut. During this period, we removed hair along the scar line that was very dense and added it to the top sides to pull everything together. All in all I likely have about 1500 grafts in my scars. The rest is SMP. 

I am so happy you found the right combination to reach the point your at. The very fact you can go with a 1 guard and walk around in comfort is astounding. Congrats 
I had great results with Cole

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## northeastguy

> @Northeastguy...who at Shapiro has done your FUE into scar? I am scheduled with Dr. Josephitus and don't know much about him. Do you have any insight? I know Dr. Ron is a legend, but do you think Dr. Joe can get the job done?


 my work was done by BOTH Dr Josephitus and Dr Ron. I had one small pass of grafts into the upper scar. the larger work was removing the denser hairs along the scar line to even out the density and adding FUE onto the top sides to connect everything together. Yes, I trust Dr Joe.

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## northeastguy

> Also, northeastguy when they did your SMP into the scar did they do it with ur hair shaved down to a 0 to most closely resemble the stubble or did they do it with your hair at the length you wanted (1.5-2 guard)? If you were to go a 0, would the SMP still match up with the surrounding stubble?


 I would never go to a 0 guard. Can't stand the look and I just don't believe it hides the scar enough. you need some length... at least .5 or 1 guard to give it dimension. depth. the SMP adds to the camouflage. Keep in Mind, EVERYONE will have different results with different lengths. You need to experiment with what works for you. Don't always go with what others are doing.... yours might be completely different. Just use what others have done as a "guide".

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## northeastguy

> From what I have learned, you probably want to get to around 50-60 grafts/cm2 and then SMP should make up the difference. Native hair is 80-100 grafts/cm2. It depends on how long your scar is. My scar is 25cm long X .5cm which is 12.5 grafts/cm2. If you do the math I am probably looking at 500-600 grafts over two sessions. My guess is that at some point you will get diminishing marginal returns and it just won't make sense to keep grafting, not to mention each graft is another tiny scar. The scar will always be there, but the idea is that you are making it tough for the average person to notice it in a social situation. I am not trying to trick a hair transplant doctor that I don't have a strip scar....I am trying to trick the average person who sits behind me at a concert or walks past me at the mall.


 If you get 50-60 grafts/cm2 in your scar you just kicked its A##. Those are very good results. Do keep in mind, hair that grows out of the scar is often less dense. over time, it should increase in density.

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## northeastguy

I want to start with this photo as a reminder of where I started. this was taken the day prior to my first procedure with Dr Cole. It is a 2 guard cut. 

the last couple of years I have been experimenting with SMP at Shapiro's clinic with Nicole. She is exceptional at SMP. We learned the best option for my situation is using the Temporary SMP. It is a better fit for my skin tone. That will be used going forward unless there are changes. 
I also did some FUE work with Dr Ron and Dr Joe. We did one small pass into the upper scar but most of the work was to thin out the hair along the scar line and add hair to the Top sides to pull everything together. I am only 8 months from that procedure so I have a few more months of growth to go. Unless there is ever the ability to clone, I am done with surgery. Temping to add beard to scalp areas but that wasn't what I started out trying to achieve during the scar repair. The focus will be on SMP going forward.



This photo is Pre SMP on 10/17. It is all FUE work.... hopefully it continues to improve and fill in as time goes on. 



Took this 2 days post SMP. 






Took these today after a haircut one with flash. again, it is a 1.5 guard length. 4.5mm

I will let it grow for a week and get a 2 guard cut to compare results..... I will share them here in a week or so.

..... hope this helps

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## Therealdeal23

So happy for you man I'm glad you have finally conquered this. Temporary SMP seems great it just kinda sucks you need 1-2 touch ups a year would be super cool if you got something that matched your skin tone for 2-3 years. Either way you've come such a long way I don't think anyone can really tell there was a scar there at the length you keep it at. How does it look at a 0.5 or 1 guard? Is it noticeable?

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## Therealdeal23

Would you be able to post a video of how it all looks? Pictures sometimes don't show it looks in real time/real life. I feel like videos capture that a bit better. If you don't mind that is of course. This has been such a help.

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## wylie

> So happy for you man I'm glad you have finally conquered this. Temporary SMP seems great it just kinda sucks you need 1-2 touch ups a year would be super cool if you got something that matched your skin tone for 2-3 years. Either way you've come such a long way I don't think anyone can really tell there was a scar there at the length you keep it at. How does it look at a 0.5 or 1 guard? Is it noticeable?


 You're getting yourself all worked up over nothing. No one said you have to go back once or twice a year, other than the practitioner, who is interested in doing as many sessions on you as they can. Don't opt for permanent SMP. Find an experienced practitioner who can do Milena Lardi SMP. Nicole at Shapiro is who I've been to.

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## wylie

> Would you be able to post a video of how it all looks? Pictures sometimes don't show it looks in real time/real life. I feel like videos capture that a bit better. If you don't mind that is of course. This has been such a help.


 He doesn't need to reply with a video, because THAT IS WHAT HE LOOKS LIKE. Those pictures don't lie, they are clear and reveal just how much his scar has disappeared. I don't even see any evidence there was one there, and NEITHER DOES ANYONE ELSE.

When someone spends night and day obsessing over something stupid like a strip scar, you go to bed every night with visions of strip scars dancing in your head. When there is a traffic jam on the way to work, it's because there is a giant strip scar in the middle of the road holding everyone up. When your boss smiles at you as he walks away, he is secretly laughing at your strip scar.

What I think might be beneficial for a lot of people is to either grow a pair or go see a counselor in addition to repairing their strip scars, dependent on how affected they are by it. Why don't you post a picture of your strip scar so we can see if it is even visible?

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## Therealdeal23

Not sure why you're attacking me and getting worked up. There's not many cases of this sort so i was just curious to see how well it all came together. I applaud NEguy for sharing this journey and he doesn't have to post a video I never said he did. I simply asked because he has been documenting his journey and helping thousands of patients for years. I'm not saying he doesn't look great and it's not notticeable in those pictures but pictures never tell the whole story. That's why a lot of guys are in this mess because they see transplant pictures that look great. Shit I can take a picture and it seems like I have a full head of hair and I'm not even trying to manipulate it to look like that but it's not the case in real life. Just like SMP places take pictures and it seems like the scar is gone. If NEguy is happy with it that's all that matters I was just simply curious to see how well it truly holds up. It's amazing that he's come this far.

You're right though people who stress about strip scars are losers and need to grow a pair. I shouldnt let it prevent me from having the super low haircut I want despite how hideous it looks. That'll show people I have balls and am not a loser.

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## wylie

Actually it sounds like you are the one getting worked up, not me. Your sarcasm is duly noted. I should have used kid gloves, I forgot. Please accept my apologies. Why don't you post a picture of your hair so we know what it looks like? Northeast guy was nice enough to do so, so maybe you can too? That way we can better understand what we are dealing with.

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## Therealdeal23

You're right man.

I'm not here to go back and forth on such a great thread. Thanks for all the updates NEguy.

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## southeastguy

Dr. Feller is a total dirtbag and a coward for giving me a 25cm scar for 1,600 grafts and not apologizing. I wouldn't go to Feller to get a hair transplant on my dog's stuffed animal chew toy.

I just got my fue into scar today with Dr. Joe at Shapiro Medical Group. 390 grafts to cover a 25cm nightmare.  I can't comment on the growth, but I can say that Dr. Joe was a class act. If you are a guy with a Strip Scar that keeps you up at night, call Shapiro Medical Group and give them a chance. I was almost ready to accept my fate of hopelessness. I feel confident that after this session I will go from a #5 to a #2.

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## bullitnut

I had my scar repaired with Shapiro Medical as well. It was a long time ago and i only had a scar revision with no SMP like people are getting these days, but still i'm very happy indeed with how things turned out and would highly recommend them to anyone wanting scar work. 

I had repair work done by Shapiro Medical after getting screwed over by an unscrupulous UK clinic when i was very young. Thankfully i found the forums after spending years living with a butchered head and bad scarring and received help from several great people including Dr Ron, Dr Paul, Bigmac, Janna and Spencer Kobren to name a few. Shapiro Medical changed my life around and gave me back the confidence to do things with my family that most people take for granted.....and for that i will be eternally grateful. I'll add a few pics to see my scar before and after and at various lengths.

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## southeastguy

I am 19 days post-op from my 390 grafts. On Day 5, i almost didnt see any scar because of the little hairs and scabs that made things blend. However, by the second week most of the hairs started falling off with the scabs and now the scar appears similar to what it did before the surgery.

Neguy. Does this sound similar to your experience?

At this point its just a waiting game. I am going to try to grow my hair long to give me some relief until the hairs grow in.

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## southeastguy

I got a question for Wiley and Northeastguy. I am at day 57 waiting for my fue into scar to grow. I am trying to debate is it better to wear your hair long and hide a scar or keep it short and wear a hat? At this point my scar is too disfiguring to go out in public at a 1 guard. I am trying to be a man about it but I'm not sure which is the better evil. I hope I get good growth because at this point I refuse to grow my hair long when I look 10X better with short hair.

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## fueforme333

Hi northeast guy,

Does your beard area still look good this day (no dot scars)?

Did Dr Cole ever tell you why your beard hair never grew into your scar? Im scared this will happen to me, except mine are FUE scars, not FUT scars. I simply want to get rid of dot scars.

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## Atlas20

Northeast guy, thanks for sharing, do you have any updates on your progress??  

I am considering the same path.  I am worried the FUE extracting will leave scarring, I am considering 150-200 scalp FUE into the scar.  Did your FUE leave noticeable scars?

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## Atlas20

Bump

How is your progress southeastguy??

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## southeastguy

I am 9 months post op. The FUE Scars i can't even notice at a .5 guard and I did 390 grafts. I am doing another session, but the growth I got is around 75%. This FUE has given me some hope that I can get to a 1 guard someday and be at peace.

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## Atlas20

Good to hear southeast guy.  You mentioned you can't see the FUE scars at .5 length but then said you wish to get to a 1 guard length- does this mean your FUE was extracted from a location you shave at a lower grade??  Or did you previously shave to a .5 to evaluate your results??

I have a scar that is very thin, maybe 1-2mm, but it's  ear to ear.  I am nervous about FUE and the possibility of more scars on my head.  I was considering a test of 10 beard grafts first.  

It sounds like grafting into your scar has been beneficial, would you say there is a significant improvement in concealment ??

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## southeastguy

Atlas20,

I said that the FUE scars I can't see at all. I know what to look for and I can't see them. It looks like a hair was tweezed and it never grew back. I don't even see any scars. Maybe at a 0 guard you can see something, but other than that there is really nothing. Its not even in the same stratosphere as a strip scar. Don't do beard hairs. I would go to a trusted Doctor, I went to Shapiro medical, and have them do a couple hundred scalp FUE into your scar. The FUE scars, if you want to call them that, don't make a difference either way. It usually takes 2-3 sessions to get a great result because of a number of factors (lower density, upper edge of scar hair too thick). Yes, it helped. Im still a long way to go but I'm a lot better than when I started.

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## Atlas20

Thanks again for the reply southeastguy,

Why would you suggest against beard grafts??  My scar is so thin i feel it is even two follicles wide at some parts, but the linear shape draws the attention.  Either way, I think I'd have to do a 10 graft FUE test session to check how it would scar before proceeding with 100+ grafts.

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## southeastguy

I just think if you have the scalp available it will have a better chance to survive and match the other hairs on your head. NEguy said his beard didnt grow. Regardless of how wide or thin it is you need the hair in there to break it up. My point was even 300-400 FUE scars aren't even noticeable to a trained eye. So if you did 150-200 it won't make a mouse fart of a difference. If you want to try 10 go ahead. But my suggestion is go for the 150-200 and try to make some progress rather than waiting a year to see that 7 out of 10 hairs grew and your back at square one.

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## Atlas20

Sounds good,  

The graft test session would be just to see the donor scarring from FUE,  if it's subtle and unnoticable on me then I'd be ok with 150-200 grafts.  I wish I could see in person someone that has done it.

I saw SMP in person last week in NYC on someone getting scar treatment, I thought it looked good at blending the scar.  Although I will say I could see the difference in texture of the scar vs normal skin when in bright light.  This was at a permanent SMP location, it seems everyone here vouches for temporary SMP.  Is there a strong argument against permanent SMP?

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## southeastguy

I did SMP and was disappointed because it frankly was a waste of time before you do the FUE. I would only try SMP with Nicole at SMG or Eric at Aheadink. SMP doesn't address volume loss and really only answers maybe 10% of the problem if that much. 90% of the problem is the volume loss which the fue addresses.

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## Atlas20

I've had two consults with HT doctors up here in the New York area, both suggested against beard or body hair for scar grafting.  I'm not ready to try scalp FUE as surgery and pinpoint white scars sway me away from that approach, I'd really need to see someone who's had FUE in person to properly gauge how considerable the FUE scarring is...

I have a Fraxel test session in about a month.  I've come across positive feedback on that, I'll be sure to share my outcome. 

Northeast guy, can you share where you went to for pulse dye laser?? Was this Vbeam?  This type of laser seems a lot more rare to come by.  I have a consult at the end of this month for Vbeam, although they probably haven't seen many strip scars, would be good to check with a place that has experience.  Thanks.

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## Mouse

Hi southeastguy for your valuable feedback , i am in same situation as you were , I have a FUT scar and i wanna conceal it ..with Fue 

I would be starting my journey most probably from next month ..I just wanted to know your final result .

Is your scar better now ?
Are you able to cut your hairs very short ?
How much % growth you see ?
Your hairdresser able to notice anykind of linear scarring ?

Please help me with above question... 



Hiw

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## southeastguy

The hair is growing in the scar at like 75% rate i would say. Best decision i have made in my life. I will probably need 3rd fue but its worth it. I will cut to a 1 guard one day and do it with dignity.

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## Mouse

Thanks man ..really happy for you 

Is it possible for you to share your before and  current pics please .. i want to see how similar scar we have

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## southeastguy

I don't know how to do photos. I went with Dr. Joe at Shapiro Medical. I would say a 1 guard is a possible goal. Below that is going to be very difficult. Even at a 1 guard it likely won't be perfect. But it will be to the point where you can go out in public and hopefully it won't stand out in the crowd.

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## southeastguy

My scar was similar to NEGUY top scar. It really doesn't matter what you have. Big, small who gives a crap. Just do a couple of sessions and hope for the best result.

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## beansysbro

Guys, my ultimate goal is fue into scar but for some immediate relief if I get temporary smp into the scar will it not make it difficult for the doctor to place fue into my scar in say a few months from now ?

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## southeastguy

I would not do SMP. I did 3 FUE into scar with Dr. Joe at Shapiro. The results are great and im very happy. Message me back with any questions.

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## southeastguy

But to answer your question it would not impact the doctor at all, but I would advise against SMP because it sucks and its a waste of money. Do an FUE.

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## beansysbro

Thanks for the reply man. It would be great if I could hear more about your experience. Sent you a friend request as I assume that's how I can send you a pm?

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## southeastguy

Well you made it to this thread so you are already on the path to success. What other questions do you have?

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## beansysbro

Did you consider scar excision such as a trichophytic closure? I started reading though this thread and NE guy mentioned a 50/50 chance for improvement in his. Don't like those odds! 

My scar is slightly raised (though I'm sure that is normal for scars ?) Did you get injections or anything to make your scar flat and soft before fue?

Did you use anything supplementary such as things like prp, acell , cortisone shots etc?

My scar is about 4cm long by 1cm wide. Do you reckon it would take more than 1 session ? the grafts required have been in the 100-300 range. I'm in Europe and and have been in touch with bisanga and lorenzo amongst others. Lorenzo has some very good scar repair videos on youtube which gives me confidence!

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## southeastguy

Did not consider excision. I would not do that as it could make it worse. I did nothing for the scar other than FUE and smp (which was a waste if time/money).

The doc used acell I think. 100-200 sounds right but u may only get like 60-70% growth. So it usually takes 2 or 3 sessions to get it matching density.

Also, when you graft into a scar it will make your scar healthier by increasing blood supply. This will make it resemble normal skin more than it does in its current state.

I dont know those doctors and can only comment on my experience with dr Joe at Shapiro.

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## beansysbro

Thanks dude

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## northeastguy

Its been so long since I've followed up here. Basically i moved on with my life i suppose. At some point enough was enough. These are most recent and Un-doctored. The outside photo is a one guard Almost a little too short and if you look you can see something. I get away best with a 1.5 guard. If I use temporary micro pigmentation, it blends perfectly However, I need to repeat it often Im just not willing to go through it. If there are questions Ill do my best to respond on a regular basis.

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## scarremorse

@northeastguy - just stumbled on this thread, not sure how I missed it previously, but its definitely given me some newfound optimism. Congrats on your progress and thank you for documenting over the years!

For you and anyone else - Im a little stuck and wanted to throw something out there 

I had 2000 FUT about a dozen years ago, looking (like most on this particular thread) to keep it short. 

Here's where I'm at: 

Where I started:


After SMP: 


After 300 FUE's into scar: 
#1 Guard
  

.5 Guard
  


At #1 guard, I'm happy with the right third of the scar
At #.5 guard, I'm happy with the left third of the scar

I'm curious about attacking just part of the scar, in an attempt to break up or distort that long linear line. 

Couple things that crossed my mind: 
1. Do another FUE, but target the hairs directly in, above, and below the scar? There are hairs that have grown back through the original scar (trico closure) thicker and at a different angle. Maybe removing some of those in one section would break up the line. 

2. Possibly have a very small (<1") FUT in the center - cut out the most problematic part of the scar. Live with a tiny bare scar (lots of people have small visible scars on their shaved heads). Again, this is an attempt to break up that long scar. 

3. Something else? 

Thinking maybe attacking just a section would at least help break up that long straight, unnatural line. 

Appreciate this thread, and appreciate any thoughts or inputs. Thank you--

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## northeastguy

Do not do FUT. Im assuming you have not done anything as of yet?  IF the scar is flat start FUE. have them remove some of the grafts from heavy density areas along scar lines and evenly place them. Rest from donor area. Plan on minimum 2 passes. 3 will be best. 

My advice, stick to a 1 guard.with the grafting in the scar at that length it hides the best and still a clean look.

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## northeastguy

Did you Trico or SMP?

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## scarremorse

> Do not do FUT. Im assuming you have not done anything as of yet?  IF the scar is flat start FUE. have them remove some of the grafts from heavy density areas along scar lines and evenly place them. Rest from donor area. Plan on minimum 2 passes. 3 will be best. 
> 
> My advice, stick to a 1 guard.with the grafting in the scar at that length it hides the best and still a clean look.


 
Appreciate that. Yes I have already done SMP and then a small (250) FUE into the scar.

SMP helped, but still noticeable.

FUE helped even more, still noticeable but got to a point where I was actually somewhat comfortable.

Next I'd like to focus on a way to break up the long continuous line. My previous two procedures have helped, and I'm even happy with sections of it at certain lengths, but it's still a long straight arbitrary line...

My thought for next time is to attack just a section of it, say, the right third of it. Remove some thru FUE on the right third, use those to fill in the left third, don't touch the middle.

While I want to go for coverage and blending the scar, I also want to focus on something - anything - that will help break up, blur, section off, or in any way disrupt that long straight line. 

So my thought is: 
Focus on removing hairs from in and around the right third of the scar. the right third would have FUE dots/scars that would help blur the line (while also removing clumpy hairs within the scar).

Use those hairs to better fill in the left third of the scar (could use more in there).

Leave the middle. I can live with it in the middle, just not if it stretches up to my ears.


To me it's worth exploring attacking this scar in sections to help break up the line. Can't seem to find much data or examples of it though.

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## northeastguy

First and foremost, get that ink out of your head. If its temporary then let it absorb on its own. If its permanent There is laser you can do to remove it and its instant. Stick to FUE in the scar only right now.

Your overthinking the processWhoever is Doing the work, have them add FUE where it is needed evenly throughout the scar. Do the entire scar at the same time. Theres no benefit in doing it in sections. Let them add graphs where they are needed each time. Youre going to need minimum two passes possibly three to achieve your goal. You will get there. Just be patient and dont overthink it. It takes a couple of years minimum to really see the full effects of multiple passes

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## northeastguy

> First and foremost, get that ink out of your head. If its temporary then let it absorb on its own. If its permanent There is laser you can do to remove it and its instant. Stick to FUE in the scar only right now.
> 
> Your overthinking the processWhoever is Doing the work, have them add FUE where it is needed evenly throughout the scar. Do the entire scar at the same time. Theres no benefit in doing it in sections. Let them add graphs where they are needed each time. Youre going to need minimum two passes possibly three to achieve your goal. You will get there. Just be patient and dont overthink it. It takes a couple of years minimum to really see the full effects of multiple passes


 .grafts. Sorry i use voice recognition to much.

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