# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments >  anyone worried by this video?

## thejdizzle

can any medical professionals on the site care to comment?

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## level

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZsgCQ2-ZS8
> 
> can any medical professionals on the site care to comment?


 Yeah Dude!!! Totally! That's some pretty scary stuff!

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## KeepTheHair

Of course we are...


But we are MORE worried about society ridiculing us for a lack of hair.

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## Layercake

terrifying....I was totally against ****ing with my hormones....but when hair-loss finally sent me spiraling into depression it occurred to me I was either going to have to take finasteride or some powerful anti-depressants.....which also have their potential for crazy side effects. 

luckily after more than a year and two months now, I have no real side effects.

That having been said, I had a weird burning sensation in my pecks the day I started the stuff.  

Also, I micro dose. 1 mg every other day. Maybe it's only 80% as effective or whatever, but lasts me twice as long, so its 50% cheaper. Can't argue with numbers like that.

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## Layercake

also, just another thought. I believe that until a few years ago it was a common for menopausal women to take hormonal supplements to alleviate their various symptoms....   that is until studies unearthed a significant correlation between those women taking hormones the development of breast cancer.....often of the highly aggressive variety.  There are no free lunches.  :Confused:

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## KeepTheHair

Finasteride definitely has positives than negatives... I can't not take it... 

I do think however that it probably isn't best to stay on it for life. That is why I just plan on using it until some cure or something better comes along. But I really have no choice. I much older already...and crap.

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## Vanzzzz

I wonder how many people have decreased penis size after taking fin..

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## teg_101

Notice how the guy preaching the 'wrongs' of taking fin has a FULL head of hair.. I'm sure if he were suffering from hair loss, his thoughts wouldn't be quite the same..  Something to think about.

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## mlao

I thought the exact same thing.

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## thejdizzle

from my research, i think it is the people who take fin for months/years with symptoms that have long term problems when they eventually quit.

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## rtpatter

Agreed. From most of the side effects I have read about people experience symptons but then continue to take the drug and then have more drastic sides when they finally quit.  It is confusing to me.  However, I do beleive there are serious sides with this drug and I can't see taking it for life so it begs the question why even start?

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## KeepTheHair

These types of videos/people scared me away from the drug for months. My hair got worse, looked extremely bad and I just thought I had no choice. I cannot live a life with worse hair... It is/was already devastating enough. It changes your WHOLE appearance. It chances how people perceive you, how they treat how and how much they respect you. This is very real and not just in my head. I don't want to be the inferior guy that everyone makes bald jokes about.

Euuughhhhhh. This is all quite disgusting.


I am in a much better mood today, thankfully. But it is only because I am having a good hair day! It seems the better my hair the better my mood!

I can't help that... Just the way it is.


Propecia definitely is worth taking for me. I have no other choice. I could scare myself a lot more with a hair loss video than a propecia side effect video. So there you have it...

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## seraphix

Fair point, I saw a bit of the video and to be honest I think it is largely unfounded. A lot of reputable doctors prescribe propecia and it is also approved by FDA. If it was so bad, I hope it wouldn't have been approved in the first place.

What do the doctors here think?

Another point, if propecia side-effects were permanent, then surely its benefits will also be.

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## canigetawitness

I heard that taking saw palmetto is better than propecia.  I dont know.  Well there are side effects to any type of prescription medication.

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## thejdizzle

saw palmetto results are negligible at best. hopefully prp will show some results for me this summer.

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## level

> These types of videos/people scared me away from the drug for months. My hair got worse, looked extremely bad and I just thought I had no choice. I cannot live a life with worse hair... It is/was already devastating enough. It changes your WHOLE appearance. It chances how people perceive you, how they treat how and how much they respect you. This is very real and not just in my head. I don't want to be the inferior guy that everyone makes bald jokes about.
> 
> Euuughhhhhh. This is all quite disgusting.
> 
> 
> I am in a much better mood today, thankfully. But it is only because I am having a good hair day! It seems the better my hair the better my mood!
> 
> I can't help that... Just the way it is.
> 
> ...


 I get what you're saying and I'm sorry that "these type of videos" scared you away, but I did a little research on this guy-John Crisler-and he is arguably the leader in testosterone replacement therapy. He seems to know a lot about hormonal imbalances. 

Think about it... Dr. Crisler-and people in his industry-would benefit from an extra pool of hormonally messed up people, which they could extract revenue from. So why would he speak out against Propecia? He has nothing to gain from it. 

I'm not trying to make people shy away from their regiment. I, myself, am considering taking fin, due to the increase in shedding I have recently experienced. However, I think to simply overlook something because it doesn't coincide with your views is a bit of a mistake. One should be fully informed and aware of the product they're ingesting. At the very minimum, it lets you know what to expect, if you happen to experience side effects. 

Like thejdizzle, I'm giving PRP a try soon; I made an appointment for June. I started a thread a couple of weeks ago and I'll be posting my bi-weekly progress. I haven't updated it with pics because of work and stuff, but I will be doing so soon.

 Although my expectations are modest, I hope PRP produces good results. Hopefully I can use the treatment as an alternative to fin. If PRP fails, I'll be forced to get on fin-hopefully with no side effects-until a real solution for hair loss comes out (if it ever does...).

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## thejdizzle

> Another point, if propecia side-effects were permanent, then surely its benefits will also be.


 the drug could have multiple mechanisms therefore that comment is a loose  assumption  :Wink:

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## Mane Man

Ok damn it I watched that stupid video and now it has me all worried.  I started the Fin on May 21st and have experienced no side effects.  How can I not be worried though?  As much as I enjoyed having hair, I don't want to mess with my hormones on a long term basis.  I don't like the sounds of these possible side effects at all and would rather live my life with a shaved head.  I started to let my hair grow back in and my wife told me she prefers my hair cut short (buzzed) anyway.  

My plan was to stay on the prescribed fin and keep my hair short until a better alternative came about.  Ahhhh!  Now I have to make a decision whether or not is is worth it to me to stay on the fin.  I really don't want to mess with my hormones and my ability to perform athletically and sexually. At the same time, of course I'd like to keep the remaining hair I have.  Not sure what to do.

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## rtpatter

Mane Man 

I will be interested in your progress on propecia as I have been on the fence about it as well and I'm close to your age. The sides have keep me away up to this point and I don't see taking it for life so from one married man to another. I have a hard time justifying the risk of the sides when at best it seems to only delay the inevitable?

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## Mane Man

Yeah- ok it would be one thing if I were 20 and wanted to hold onto my hair through college and dating.  I can totally empathize with some of the younger members here as being young and in the dating world can be intimidating even when you are confident in the way you look. To them, the risks of keeping hair through medication might seem worth it.  Everybody has to weigh out the pros and cons of the options and ultimately decide for themselves.

I was not expecting any miracles with propecia/fin anyway.  I'm 34, and have been married for eight years.  My wife is very nice about my hair loss, considering she met me before I showed any signs. What is the point of me risking my sexual health and possibly other sides if the fin loses its effectiveness and people stop taking it after five years?

I'm on the fence, but I'm already on the pill.   It felt good to finally do something about the hair loss, but I'm not sure about my decision now.  I don't want to constantly be worrying about this.  I'm going to make a decision in the next day or two.

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## whyyyyyyyyyyy

I watched the first couple seconds of the video and turned it off. We already know what the side effects are. The last thing I need is another person freaking me out about something I'm doing to improve the quality of my life. If I wanted that, I'd spend all day reading the posts at Propeciahelp.com going hysterical at all the crazy stories going on over there.

The simple fact of the matter is that the drug works for people. If you're someone like me who's just starting to notice their hairloss, you've got two options:

1) Do nothing and see how long it takes for your hair to fall out, or
2) Take action, see if it works, and risk getting side effects

It's not hard to find people who've used it for years and haven't experienced any sides (they're higher in number on sites that don't specialize in hair loss), and that's enough peace of mind for me to go ahead and start using it myself. Maybe I'll be lucky, maybe I won't. Those odds are much better than being just plain unlucky.

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## Buckerine11

Finasteride caused me to have painful nipples. I was scared, so I quit. I was on it for about 7 months, but didn't see any regrowth. It really varies by the person.

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## Mane Man

So I woke up this morning and had no problem taking another 1/4 pill of fin.  I got myself all in a panic yesterday (because of the negative talk of propecia) and was checking threads on here for a few hours.  I decided that it was too early to pull the plug on a pill that can help me out with something that bothers me- hair loss.  I also did something else.  I went to the barber and got my hair taken down short to a 1 1/2.  Part of me is accepting my balding and is willing to rock the bald look.  The other part of me wants to believe that I can keep the hair I have, and maybe even someday regrow the hair I have lost.  For me, stoping the fin is giving up the hope of keeping hair. I'm not quite ready to give up that hope.  I'll continue to take the fin and will try not to worry so much about sides, but will see what happens.  I'm two weeks in with no issues other than being a chicken little  :Smile: .

I wanted to thank the level headed people on here that spoke to me more than the negative people who post here.

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## William Reed, MD

This is a very disturbing video.  Unfortunately, it makes many generalizations and accusations that are not referenced to allow examination of its claims.  I would hope that the authors of this video would supply their references.

I will be posting a poll I am conducting of fellow hair transplant surgeons.  I will post the final tabulation but at the moment, I have estimates totaling 20,000 patients from 12 surgeons who have been prescribing finasteride since it received approval in the late 90s.  At the moment, THERE ARE NO REPORTED SIDE EFFECTS reported that persisted after the patients stopped the medication.  Very strange, indeed, that these findings are at such odds with the video.  I will be sure that the reporting physicians do not sell finasteride in their practices or have any other bias motivating distortion of their data.

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## KeepTheHair

> This is a very disturbing video.  Unfortunately, it makes many generalizations and accusations that are not referenced to allow examination of its claims.  I would hope that the authors of this video would supply their references.
> 
> I will be posting a poll I am conducting of fellow hair transplant surgeons.  I will post the final tabulation but at the moment, I have estimates totaling 20,000 patients from 12 surgeons who have been prescribing finasteride since it received approval in the late 90s.  At the moment, THERE ARE NO REPORTED SIDE EFFECTS reported that persisted after the patients stopped the medication.  Very strange, indeed, that these findings are at such odds with the video.  I will be sure that the reporting physicians do not sell finasteride in their practices or have any other bias motivating distortion of their data.


 This makes me feel better about the whole thing.

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## Winston

This is a great idea Dr. Reed! Thanks for doing this. These videos are really disturbing and I think they provide bogus claims that are unnecessarily frightening all of us who take Propecia and those who would like to start.

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## mlao

I agree with Winston there is too much fear mongering on the web that is never properly back up by reputable, experienced doctors.

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## William Reed, MD

An update on the informal survey that I have been doing regarding the frequency of long term side effects even after the discontinuation of finasteride: None of the 17 surgeons reporting on over an estimated 30,000 patients begun on finasteride report having received feedback that the medicine has ever created long term, irreversible side effects of any sort.

A healthy discussion is always beneficial.  I would encourage the authors of this very disturbing film to respond to this data that could not be further from supporting their contention of irreversible dangers from taking finasteride.  A good start would be for them to publish their references that they feel support their positions.  I shall try to tract down the physician who is shown on the video and will get back to you about his response.

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## tbtadmin

IAHRS accepted member William H. Reed, M.D. discusses his findings of an informal study in which he polled 17 hair restoration practices that have treated more than 30,0000 patients with Propecia.

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## EDVictim

Mr. Reed, 

With all due respect sir, you are providing false information to the public.  There are many doctors who are aware of the permanent side effects that finasteride(5 alph reductase II inhibitor) has caused to many individuals.

As you may know(since you went to medical school), finasteride blocks DHT(5 alpha reductsase II receptor *70% of DHT*), and also lowers allopregnolone levels along with inhibiting a very important neurosteroid called "GABA".  TSH,T4, Free T3, Reverse T3 have come back abnormal after discontinuing the drug.

Putting that aside, I truely question your ethics on this board. Well reknowned doctors such as Dr. Goldstein, Dr. Jacob, Dr. Crisler, Dr. Irwig and some others acknowledges the long term permanent side effects this drug has caused.  Many of these doctors have seens 100's of sufferers*including me* who discontinuted the drug and have not recovered from these side effects which include: (Hypothyroidsm, Erectile Dysfunction, Watery Ejaculate, Depressed Testosterone levels: Depressed LH & FSH, High Estrogen, and Gynocomestia.

You can also find videos on youtube, and blogs regarding these side effects. YES, they are very real..

In conlusion, I must say I'm completely shocked along with many other who are suffering side effects with your post.  We are losing extreme faith in the U.S. medical system due unethical and dishonest actions.

Regards,

Steve

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## bostonusa2009

> I agree with Winston there is too much fear mongering on the web that is never properly back up by reputable, experienced doctors.


 After you have the pill for 6 months. Ask yourself, Is sex as good as used to be? Do you desire sex as much as you used to?

Be painfully honest with yourself, Are you experiencing vision problems, slight memory loss. I'm giving you the warning signs before the really bad stuff starts. 

The propeciahelp forum has 1,500 + users and there probably double that number that are reading the forum, but aren't yet members. 

Don't just ignore these things. Go on that forum read a few of the stories, so you know what to look for in case you also begin experiencing the same things.

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## William Reed, MD

Dear Steve, 

I am not providing any information other than what the 17 doctors that I have contacted have given me.  I, too, am a bit shocked that there have been no long term side effects in our practices where over 30,000 patients have received finasteride; I'm especially shocked when I contrast these results to the videos on UTube.

I would imagine that the doctors you cite are familiar with issues in medicine being unclear and in there being a difference of opinion on many  different medical issues.  I would hope they find this informal survey of interest to help them put the situation into a perspective enriched by this large number of patients treated by their colleagues.

Since you don't know me, I won't take offense at your questioning my ethics.  I know many people who could reassure you.  I have no interest of any sort in promoting or berating finasteride.  I just want to know how to help people manage hair loss and to understand the tools available as well as possible.

I am sorry that you are a sufferer of finasteride use.  I hope that you can find this informal study reassuring that your symptoms are not as permanent as you fear.  I should add that one patient in the 30,000 patients did feel that impotence resulted even after stopping finasteride  but that this perception disappeared after a year.  I hope that this will be the case for you and for others who suffer.

Best regards, 

William Reed, MD

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## EDVictim

Mr. Reed,

Thanks for your reply. Healthy conversation regarding this condition is very important.  I invite you to our website, create a username and browse through the hormone/blood section so you can get a better glimpse & understanding on this serious matter.

What will interestingly strike you on there is the amount of individuals who are still suffering after 6+ years and have not recovered.  You will also see a pattern of blood test results showing unhealthy hormone levels/thyroid levels which can also lead to another serious condition: An increase risk of stroke.  Poor vascular health is a contributor to this.

After reviewing this section of our website, you will see a lot of previously healthy individuals are now on TRT for life.  Unfortunately, they were forced into this life long treatment because their hormonal profile never recovered naturally after stopping finasteride. 

I do have a question for you Mr. Reed regarding the informal survey, are these doctors solely specializing in hairloss? Are they monitoring their patients Testosterone levels, Estrogen levels, Free Testosterone, Bioavailable testosterone, Thyroid(full thyroid, not just TSH) on an ongoing basis?  Would these doctors be interested in completing a formal survey with their patients and releasing it to the public?

In summary, I can respect your willingness to bring this informal survey to the public.  The validity behind it however, remains unknown.  I'm not 100% understanding what your motive is still, all I know is we are in a very tough economy, and losing clients is the last thing you would want to happen. However, what is known to the public are a bunch of consistent blood tests on www.propeciahelp.com website which shows many individuals who are struggling with hypothyroidism, extreme fatigue, brain fog, and severe erection dysfunction(including an abscence of nocturnal erections).

Regards,

Steve

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## Winston

EDVictim,
If you would like Dr. Reed to take you seriously, you might want to refer to him as Dr. Reed, not Mr. Reed. Im not sure if this was an oversight on your part or if youre trying to be intentionally disrespectful?
I don't see how it would be in the best financial interest of a hair transplant surgeon to promote the use of Propecia when in fact he would make much more money if his patients skip the drugs and just go for repeated surgeries.

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## Dr JN

Hello,

I am Dr JN, and am both a medical doctor and sufferer of the horrific side effects of finasteride for over 9 years.

I want to add weight to the fact that Propecia is a dangerous medication to take.  I am not interested in arguments or contrasting opinion but feel I have a personal and professional duty to alert all men who wish to save their hair that Propecia could potentially devastate their lives.

I took 1mg finasteride per day for 6 months as a 4th year medical student and have since suffered horrific physical, psychological and sexual symptoms, only partially alleviated with supraphysiological androgen therapy.

Common physiological parameters amongst sufferers include:

Low 3 alpha androstanediol glucuronide levels
Low Vitamin D levels

indicating permanent irreparable damage to the Type 2 5AR enzyme and/or vital steroid pathways.

I am currently working on the theory of clinical hypothyroidism, with abnormalities in reverse T3 levels; possibly a physiological, cortisol-induced response to finasteride-  A 'stress' response.

If you take Propecia I wish you the best of luck and hope you are not one of the few longterm sufferers of a very debilitating condition.  

As a person I feel I have a responsibilty to warn all finasteride users or potential users. As a professional, I encourage further scientific analysis of the possible mechanisms of destruction of finasteride on the human body.

For further information please visit www.propeciahelp.com

Many thanks

Dr JN, MBCHB FACEM

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## John-

Dr. Reed, regarding your comment as follows:




> "A good start would be for them to publish their references that they feel support their positions.


 The references were shown at the end of the video, and are also available under the video's description, which is viewable by clicking the expandable vertical >> arrows, (below the video clip, left of "number of views"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZsgCQ2-ZS8

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## John-

Further to the above, below are links to substantiate the claims of men negatively affected by Finasteride use. 

According to the manufacturer's website:

_"A small number of men had sexual side effects, with each occurring in less than 2% of men. These include less desire for sex, difficulty in achieving an erection, and a decrease in the amount of semen. These side effects went away in men who stopped taking PROPECIA because of them. In addition, these side effects decreased to 0.3% of men or less by the fifth year of treatment."_

The manufacturer states that a small number of men had sexual side effects, including less desire for sex and difficulty in achieving an erection. The manufacturer also states that all side effects will resolve upon discontinuation of Propecia. 

Unfortunately, an unknown number of men worldwide have acquired permanent hypogonadism (loss of Testosterone metabolism) from use, resulting in persistent sexual, mental and physical side effects long after quitting. Some medical professionals are now beginning to suspect these men may have acquired partial androgen resistance as a result of androgen deprivation (loss of DHT) from usage of the medication.

Below are some links which provide additional information on these topics. As was mentioned by some posters in this thread, there seems to be a perception that posting such information is simply for the purpose of "fear mongering"; however, this could not be further from the truth. 

The public deserves to have access to as much information as possible about the medication they are consuming, in order to make an informed decision about usage. Beyond FDA labelling and the manufacturer's claims, anecdotal reports and real-world experiences, coupled with emerging reports from medical professionals, provide additional knowledge and potential to weigh the risks of undergoing androgen deprivation therapy by taking a 5AR2 inhibitor, to treat what is ultimately a cosmetic, vanity-related and emotional issue (hair loss). 

--------

1. 2010 - Dr. Irwig @ George Washington University conducting clinical study into persistent Propecia side effects
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/do...ile.php?id=365


2. UK - MHRA: Permanent ED a reported outcome of use
http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/groups/p.../con054522.pdf

- Under Undesirable Side Effects, pg. 7, section 4.8: 
"Persistence of erectile dysfunction after discontinuation of treatment with PROPECIA has been reported in post-marketing use." 


3. UK MHRA - Male Breast Cancer now an official side effect

http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?I...nMethod=Latest

"Cases of male breast cancer have been reported for finasteride, and the review suggested that an increased risk of male breast cancer associated with finasteride use cannot be excluded... on the basis of the review, it was recommended that a warning on the risk of breast cancer should be included in the product information for all medicines containing finasteride." 


4. Swedish Medical Products Agency -- Male breast cancer now an official side effect

http://www.lakemedelsverket.se/PageF...inasteride.doc

"Breast cancer has been reported in men taking finasteride 1 mg during the post-marketing period."

"In addition, the following have been reported in postmarketing use: persistence of erectile dysfunction after discontinuation of treatment with Propecia; male breast cancer (see section 4.4 Special warnings and precautions for use). has been reported in post-marketing use."

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## John-

5. Swedish Medical Products Agency
http://www.lakemedelsverket.se/SPC_P...blet%20ENG.doc

Under "Special Warnings and Precautions for Use ", pg. 2, section 4.4: 

"Long-term data on fertility in humans are lacking, and specific studies in subfertile men have not been conducted. The male patients who were planning to father a child were initially excluded from clinical trials. Although, animal studies did not show relevant negative effects on fertility, spontaneous reports of infertility and /or poor seminal quality were received post-marketing..." 

- Breast cancer has been reported in men taking finasteride 1 mg during the post-marketing period. 


Under "Undesirable Side Effects", pg. 3, section 4.8: 

- persistence of erectile dysfunction after discontinuation of treatment with PROPECIA 
- male breast cancer "


---

6. Youtube - Swedish TV Investigation into permanent Propecia side effects
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nXWVTStnHs

7. Youtube - PERMANENT ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION NOW OFFICIAL IN EUROPE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIDM2N1MuWw

8. Youtube - Dr. John Crisler speaking about permanent Finasteride side effects
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEGCTMtlgoc

8. Hair loss medicine may cause permanent erection problems 
http://translate.google.ca/translate...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

---

9. Dr. Alan Jacobs - A Neuroendocrine Approach To Finasteride Side Effects In Men 
http://blog.alanjacobsmd.com/alan-ja...ts-in-men.html

10. Dr. Alan Jacobs - The Plot Thickens, Along With The Hair, When You Mess With Dihydrotestosterone 
http://blog.alanjacobsmd.com/alan-ja...tosterone.html

11. Dr. Alan Jacobs -  A Proposed Mechanism For Prolonged Sexual Side Effects From Finasteride 
http://blog.alanjacobsmd.com/alan-ja...nasteride.html

12. Italy - Alarm for baldness drug 
http://translate.google.ca/translate...3Doff%26sa%3DN

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## martinM

> This is a very disturbing video.  Unfortunately, it makes many generalizations and accusations that are not referenced to allow examination of its claims.  I would hope that the authors of this video would supply their references.
> 
> I will be posting a poll I am conducting of fellow hair transplant surgeons.  I will post the final tabulation but at the moment, I have estimates totaling 20,000 patients from 12 surgeons who have been prescribing finasteride since it received approval in the late 90s.  At the moment, THERE ARE NO REPORTED SIDE EFFECTS reported that persisted after the patients stopped the medication.  Very strange, indeed, that these findings are at such odds with the video.  I will be sure that the reporting physicians do not sell finasteride in their practices or have any other bias motivating distortion of their data.


 I am a registered user at propeciahelp.com. You can find me under this same username. 

Here are a few questions to ask yourselves:

1) No reported side effects to whom? I have reported long term sides multiple times to both Merck and the FDA as have other former FINASTERIDE users on propeciahelp. Merck tells me every time there is no suggested time on how long their stated side effects (ED) take to go away. They wouldn't even say within 5 years. 

2) How closely are you paying attention to the state of your body? The side effects (beyond ED) for me took years to develop and worsen before they came to crises. I visited multiple doctors trying to figure out what was wrong. The standard line was "we don't know". It was only after 4+ years of  worsening symptoms, when ED finally set in at age 27, that I realized how bad it had gotten. I slowly gained water weight, lost energy, lost mental acuity, and became depressed. 

3) How do you track the claims of the disbelieved? I have spent thousands on doctors and blood tests trying to get someone interested in my case. Many doctors have refused to look at me because long-term side effects are not listed in the packaging of propecia. 

4) Statement: Doctors don't tend to sell propecia at their practices. They write scripts for it and get kickbacks from pharma for doing so. Any doctor "saving men's hair" has a bias to prescribe propecia. Doctor's prescribing Propecia cannot be unbiased.

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## mlao

4) Statement: Doctors don't tend to sell propecia at their practices. They write scripts for it and get kickbacks from pharma for doing so. Any doctor "saving men's hair" has a bias to prescribe propecia. Doctor's prescribing Propecia cannot be unbiased.[/QUOTE]

I would like to hear from some of the doctors who regularly post on this forum. In response to this unsubstantiated allegation. 
when I started using Propecia I was not pressured in any way. My doctor talked about possible sides and I made my own decision.

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## martinM

> 4) Statement: Doctors don't tend to sell propecia at their practices. They write scripts for it and get kickbacks from pharma for doing so. Any doctor "saving men's hair" has a bias to prescribe propecia. Doctor's prescribing Propecia cannot be unbiased.


 I would like to hear from some of the doctors who regularly post on this forum. In response to this unsubstantiated allegation. 
when I started using Propecia I was not pressured in any way. My doctor talked about possible sides and I made my own decision.[/QUOTE]

Good for you. Doesn't mean your doctor didn't get a kickback. Doctors are the “sales men” for these drugs -they and the drug companies are business partners. Due to the information asymmetry between doctors and patients, the patients are not in a good position to make the best decision in these kind of situations. Humans are driven by economic incentives, and doctors are no exception.

Read "Overdo$ed America" for another viewpoint about how much profit is made from the pills you're swallowing that can rob you of your functional penis.

http://www.overdosedamerica.com/

Don't forget, none of the Doctor's here are LEGALLY OBLIGATED to tell you about incentives or interaction they have with drug companies. If you prefer to let the propecia sales people (your doctors on this board who have prescribed to over 30,000 people) be your sole source of information about what you're taking be my guest. Just remember that for every dollar profited one will be spent to clean up the mess.

http://news.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/0...escribe-drugs/

http://ww.scu.edu/ethics/publication...escribing.html

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/r/21106691/detail.html

http://www.jsonline.com/features/health/37397284.html

These are the first few hits on google. Do a little research before crying "unsubstantiated claims". Furthermore, why wouldn't you ask me to substantiate? After all, I'm the one who made the claims, right?

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## mlao

The articles you provided give good insight into drug company practices. And while I'm sure they exist, 
I just wanted some of the doctors who frequent this forum to voice their opinion about their relationship with Merck.
In my case I have a GP who is very hesitant to prescribe medication. She did not pressure me at all in regards to a script for Propecia.
I did not mean to show any disrespect to you or your opinions.

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## martinM

> The articles you provided give good insight into drug company practices. And while I'm sure they exist, 
> I just wanted some of the doctors who frequent this forum to voice their opinion about their relationship with Merck.
> In my case I have a GP who is very hesitant to prescribe medication. She did not pressure me at all in regards to a script for Propecia.
> I did not mean to show any disrespect to you or your opinions.


 No problem. But keep in mind the Doctors who post here have material interest in promoting Finasteride at their practices to save hair and are NOT LEGALLY OBLIGATED to disclose their relationships with any pharma.

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## John-

Update from Dr. Jacobs on persistent Finasteride side effects:

*Another Piece of the Post-Finasteride Hypogonadism Puzzle?*
http://blog.alanjacobsmd.com/alan-ja...sm-puzzle.html


*The persistence of male sexual side effects (hypogonadism) after discontinuation of finasteride is a serious problem for a significant subset of men who use the drug.  I  had previously written about whether the propensity of finasteride to cause lasting hypogonadism could be due to the development of partial androgen resistance and whether this relates to the number of CAG repeats in exon 1 of their androgen receptor genes.*

Recently, a patient of mine brought to my attention a research paper from Csoka, et al.(J Sex Med 2008;5:227-233) titled "Persistent Sexual Dysfunction after Discontinuation of Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors".  They added 3 well-characterized case reports to the half dozen or so that were already in the literature and cited studies probing underlying mechanisms for the problem.  Their fourth proposed mechanism relates to a growing field that has caught my attention in a big way, the field of epigenetics.   They note that antidepressants can cause complex changes in the expression of genes.  They cite animal research that has linked SSRI treatment during youth to permanantly decreased sexual behavior that persits into adulthood and that has explored underlying mechanisms for this including brain epigenetic changes at the molecular level. 

Epigenetics is a field that concerns the complex web of proteins that surround our DNA.  These proteins include histones, which help package and unpackage our genes to either turn on or turn off their function. "Acetylation" and "methylation" are chemical reactions that alter the histone's function, which in turn alters the expression of our genes.  Within this emerging field may lie a new mechanism by which a drug can cause persistent changes in gene expression that can influence sexual behavior.

*This brings up the idea that there is a common epigenetic mechanism that may apply generally to medications that cause persistent sexual dysfunction.  It may be the case with finasteride that a common epigenetic effect interacts with a less common variant in the androgen receptor gene CAG repeat profile to cause its syndrome of crippling persistent post-finasteride hypogonadism.*

Human research in this area has yet to be done, but holds promise for new therapies to treat this troublesome side effect of finasteride and other widely used medications.

----------


## mechephd

I'm still a little incredulous to the propeciahelp claims--I'm sure, like any drug, there are side effects and that in a small & of the population these might be exacerbated.

However so far the only mounting evidence to substantiate the claims are anecdotal, youtube clips and blogs. The research and clinical gold standard are randomized and double (or triple) blinded clinical studies with results published in a peer reviewed journal--so far I haven't seen any publications that are indicative of the propeciahelp claims. 

I'm not doubting that some men out there are indeed suffering but personally I'd attribute to those to psychosomatic or nocebo effects.

----------


## Johnny_B

This is an excellent thread. A big thank you to all that have contributed. I myself, have had many misgivings about taking fin. I took anabolic steroids for years and through hairloss and other side effects decided enough was enough. I went to see an endocrinologist and tested low for both test and gh. I have been off steriods for a long time and my test levels are still low.

From my experiences, I should have learned to be careful with anything that alters hormones but took the plunge on fin without issue as my hairloss and iminent HT to address it was so important to me.

I am 6 months post op and doing okay and have been taking fin for 10 months now. I have had no problems so far on fin but I have the greatest respect for the the potential effects it may have on my body, so much so that I will stop when my HT reaches 12 months and switch to minox and nizoral.

I'm very mixed on the subject, it hasn't affected me (yet) but who knows what the future lies when I try to come off...coming off steriods was not a nice thing.

I may take some arimidex to counter any oestrogen issues. I may also end up on TRT as a result of my steriod use anyway.

I have always lived for today but please take my advice and treat steriods or any hormone/antagonist-blocker with the utmost respect and before you take the plunge, do your research as you have done with your hairloss.

----------


## 25 going on 65

Let me just say this: I have heard all kinds of horror stories about finasteride.  There seems to be a very vocal, very persistent core of internet users who blast their scary message all over YouTube and other forums.
But from what I can see, most men who use this drug don't experience side effects, let alone "permanent" ones.  I may have a 5% chance (give or take) of experiencing temporary sides, but without a DHT blocker like finasteride or dutasteride, *there is a 100% chance I will keep losing my hair.*  The same is true of any MPB sufferer.
It's one thing to quit Propecia after noticing side effects, but don't avoid trying it in the first place unless your doctor gives you a valid reason.  Otherwise you'll be kicking yourself down the line when you think about how much hair you could have kept.

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## davidwilsoon

> I thought the exact same thing.


 from my research, i think it is the people who take fin for months/years with symptoms that have long term problems when they eventually quit.


_______________________
watch movies online

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## marc5477

To the fear mongers on this thread, I'm not a doctor but I am a bio-engineer with significant knowledge in various scientific fields so let me give you little advice; grow up!

By stating that your problems are 100&#37; correlated to a drug that effects maybe 1 out of 1000 users in the ways you describe and claim is absolute (and excuse my engineering lingo) BS!

I'm sorry but neither you or the people you site are smart enough to make the claims you describe. I am not supporting the doctors either but I do know a few things about the human body and one of those is that our body chemistry is so complex that the only real way to get anywhere in this discussion is with user feedback. If only 1 in 100 people have side effects you describe then I would say you need to point that out in your fear mongering before scaring people away. I have a feeling that people with side effects number much less than 1%. So grow up! 

If you had a problem with it, it doesn't mean that its a bad drug. It just didn't work for you. Sorry for being harsh and sorry you had side effects but thats life and its unfair. Stop using it, and move on. Last time I checked breathing air is also carcinogenic and is the direct cause of aging and death to humans. Are you all trolling the boards telling people to stop breathing while walking around with oxygen packs on your back? You can easily add 10-20 years of life if you did that so why are you not crying about it? How about how toxic our water is? What about eating meat? Or vegetables grown on the planet earth? They are all toxic! And thats not all, did you know that you are dying from the day you were born? Lets all make a ruckus about how we shouldnt have kids & maybe we can recommend propecia to lower birth rates! Oh the absurdity that is life.

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## bluewater

I have been taking a 5mg tablet every other day, thats 3 times a week for longer than I can remember. I skip the weekends, and I don't take it with me when I travel, which isn't often, but I have been off it for up to 10 days in a row. In any event, I have not noticed any negative side affects that I can put my finger on. I am going to tun 61 next month, I have plenty of energy as I run up to 85 miles a month. I still pump iron 2-4 days a week, depending on time available. I have always had a problem sleeping well. I don't feel particularly depressed but I am happier some days than others. My libido has decressed slightly over time, but I associate that with age and a mostly unwilling partner (wife). Let me tell you if my wife looked like she did 30 years ago and/or was willing to have sex regularly, I'd be all over it. The rare ocassion that she does, I have no problem. My pec's look normal, I am benching 165 lbs.  I have recently noticed a slightreduction in erection stiffness, but I associate that with age as well. I do notice that sperm volumn increases slightly during those short periods I am off the stuff, but hell, I started taking the stuff in my late 50's well beyond any intent on my part to have any additional children and it doesn't affect sexual pleasure. 

As far as hair loss is concerned, its hard to tell. My hair loss is mostly the receeding from the temples type. My hair has thinned over time, but I think a ceratin amount of that with age is to be expected, and the change is not dramatic, noticable to other people. I don't notice hair on the pillow, in the shower  on the brush, hell we have a lot obvious cat hair in this 
house. I haven't been off the stuff long enough to know how my hair would be if I weren't on it. People have commented that I have a lot of hair "for my age". I have two brothers. One has a great head of hair, similar to what it was when he was younger, my other brother has great hair also. Out of the three of us, I have the most obvious temple loss. 

This video freaked me out as well, but I have no regrets and I hope my experience is of some assurance to you.

----------


## CIT_Girl

> 4) Statement: Doctors don't tend to sell propecia at their practices. They write scripts for it and get kickbacks from pharma for doing so. Any doctor "saving men's hair" has a bias to prescribe propecia. Doctor's prescribing Propecia cannot be unbiased.
> 
> I would like to hear from some of the doctors who regularly post on this forum. In response to this unsubstantiated allegation.
> when I started using Propecia I was not pressured in any way. My doctor talked about possible sides and I made my own decision.


 The relationship between physicians and pharmaceutical companies is HIGHLY regulated, at least in the US.  Dr. Cole and other physicians are definitely not getting any kickbacks for the prescriptions they write.  To be completely honest, dealing with prescriptions is more of a hassle for them than anything and therefore they wouldn't be writing them if they didn't believe that these prescriptions were beneficial to, and safe for, hair loss patients.  

Anti-kickback laws are highly explicit and pharmaceutical companies and physicians stand to lose billions if they're violated.  Sure, there was a day when physicians were wined and dined by pharmaceutical sales reps but nowadays the reps cannot so much as hand a physician a pen with their logo on it.  

The only potential gray area that I see between physicians and pharma companies in this industry is that some physicians do dispense drugs like Propecia from their office.  In this case, they will sometimes mark up the price they charge to patients and clearly there could be some questionable incentives there.

----------


## skipstah70

> This is a very disturbing video.  Unfortunately, it makes many generalizations and accusations that are not referenced to allow examination of its claims.  I would hope that the authors of this video would supply their references.
> 
> I will be posting a poll I am conducting of fellow hair transplant surgeons.  I will post the final tabulation but at the moment, I have estimates totaling 20,000 patients from 12 surgeons who have been prescribing finasteride since it received approval in the late 90s.  At the moment, THERE ARE NO REPORTED SIDE EFFECTS reported that persisted after the patients stopped the medication.  Very strange, indeed, that these findings are at such odds with the video.  I will be sure that the reporting physicians do not sell finasteride in their practices or have any other bias motivating distortion of their data.


 Tell me honestly though (since you are a doctor).  Don't you think it is ethically irresponsible for a company like Merck to say that only 2&#37; of men will have sexual side issues with the drug, when it is quite realistically more like at least 20% or more?  I had been prescribed Propecia by probably about 5 doctors over the last 12 years.  I've had two of them in particular ask me about any sexual side effects, to which I sheepishly reported both times that I hadn't noticed any (I had of course), and both doctors told me that the percentage of men who report sexual problems with the drug is way higher than 2%.  These were fricking PROFFESIONAL DOCTORS TELLING ME THIS!  
    There is something severely wrong in a system that allows a company like Merck to fund it's own trials to get approval through the FDA. The FDA should be the one screening and scrutinizing the test results, not the company that has a dollar interest in bringing it to market.  This is insane!!!

----------


## skipstah70

There was an interesting segment last week on CBC radio's "Quirks and Quarks" (canadian science show) called "Human Guinea Pigs". It was an enlightening look at the shadowed world of drug testing trials..  listen here.. and be more than a little worried!!

----------


## bluewater

What were the "sexual side effects" that you noticed? I haven't noticed any. But, maybe I am not aware of it. A little more detail about youe experience will certainly help me.  :Confused:

----------


## skipstah70

My side effects were of the standard ED sort.  Over several years of using, I noticed that my "natural" erections were less frequent, to eventually non existent.  I did not have a serious loss of libido however.  I still wanted to perform, but my guy would not sustain a hard erection.  Also, I noticed a steady (over years again) gradual loss of sensation in my penis.  This was the most anoyying thing.  After a while, it felt like I was losing nerves in my penis of something.  All this led to a catch 22 depression about my state. For years I debated, should I quit completely or still put up with this (I was still happy with effects it was delivering to my hairline of course).  I attributed some of the ED and loss of sensation effect to just general aging (I took this drug from ages 29-40.  Now after quitting it, and feeling a complete change in my body after quitting the drug 3 months ago.. I can honestly tell you it is 100&#37; the fricking drug.  I started waking up with raging hardons.. which hadn't happened in like 7 years... and I have all the sensitivity down there as I had before the drug.  The scarry part, was that the bad side effects about the drug (I surmise) are as slow in coming as the benefits of taking the drug. You really won't be able to pin down the day your dick didn't work.. but warned .. it will IMO.

----------


## ryan555

> Tell me honestly though (since you are a doctor).  Don't you think it is ethically irresponsible for a company like Merck to say that only 2% of men will have sexual side issues with the drug, when it is quite realistically more like at least 20% or more?  I had been prescribed Propecia by probably about 5 doctors over the last 12 years.  I've had two of them in particular ask me about any sexual side effects, to which I sheepishly reported both times that I hadn't noticed any (I had of course), and both doctors told me that the percentage of men who report sexual problems with the drug is way higher than 2%.  These were fricking PROFFESIONAL DOCTORS TELLING ME THIS!  
>     There is something severely wrong in a system that allows a company like Merck to fund it's own trials to get approval through the FDA. The FDA should be the one screening and scrutinizing the test results, not the company that has a dollar interest in bringing it to market.  This is insane!!!


 Why did you keep taking the drug for 12 years if you were having side effects?

----------


## skipstah70

Vanity, PURE VANITY.

----------


## ryan555

> Vanity, PURE VANITY.


 Fair enough.  I'm glad you bounced back.

----------


## F67

> My side effects were of the standard ED sort.  Over several years of using, I noticed that my "natural" erections were less frequent, to eventually non existent.  I did not have a serious loss of libido however.  I still wanted to perform, but my guy would not sustain a hard erection.  Also, I noticed a steady (over years again) gradual loss of sensation in my penis.  This was the most anoyying thing.  After a while, it felt like I was losing nerves in my penis of something.  All this led to a catch 22 depression about my state. For years I debated, should I quit completely or still put up with this (I was still happy with effects it was delivering to my hairline of course).  I attributed some of the ED and loss of sensation effect to just general aging (I took this drug from ages 29-40.  Now after quitting it, and feeling a complete change in my body after quitting the drug 3 months ago.. I can honestly tell you it is 100% the fricking drug.  I started waking up with raging hardons.. which hadn't happened in like 7 years... and I have all the sensitivity down there as I had before the drug.  The scarry part, was that the bad side effects about the drug (I surmise) are as slow in coming as the benefits of taking the drug. You really won't be able to pin down the day your dick didn't work.. but warned .. it will IMO.


 Thanks for your story.

I started taking Propecia when I was about 31 - I'm now 43 and have been on it for 12 years. I had erection problems within days of taking Propecia, but vanity has kept me taking it. The effects on my hair were simply amazing. If I never took Propecia, I'm sure I would be a NW5/6 by now, whereas I'm a NW3/4, right now. I want to get off Propecia, but I'm afraid my hair will fall out. I'm a professional male and what I'm doing is irrational, yet I continue.

Are you okay with continued hair loss now that you're off Propecia?

Are you married? kids?

----------


## ryan555

> Thanks for your story.
> 
> I started taking Propecia when I was about 31 - I'm now 43 and have been on it for 12 years. I had erection problems within days of taking Propecia, but vanity has kept me taking it. The effects on my hair were simply amazing. If I never took Propecia, I'm sure I would be a NW5/6 by now, whereas I'm a NW3/4, right now. I want to get off Propecia, but I'm afraid my hair will fall out. I'm a professional male and what I'm doing is irrational, yet I continue.
> 
> Are you okay with continued hair loss now that you're off Propecia?
> 
> Are you married? kids?


 Why don't you try backing down to a smaller dose?  A lot of guys claim the same effect at .25 mg with fewer side effects.

----------


## norc

I am actually about to take FIN. But after watching this video, it scared me a lot. I mean really a LOT!  Now I am totally confused. I am 31 years old and really really want to control MPB and thinning on temple. However, my body systems are also important to me......I hope to hear from some fair doctors as well...

WHy is MERCK not even releasing updates on their drug?

I need help very badly to decide.... thanks

----------


## F67

> I am actually about to take FIN. But after watching this video, it scared me a lot. I mean really a LOT!  Now I am totally confused. I am 31 years old and really really want to control MPB and thinning on temple. However, my body systems are also important to me......I hope to hear from some fair doctors as well...
> 
> WHy is MERCK not even releasing updates on their drug?
> 
> I need help very badly to decide.... thanks


 my sexual performance was significantly compromised. In the last few years my semen has become very watery and now almost non-existent. This is what scares me the most. I know I should be getting of this drug...

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## F67

> Why don't you try backing down to a smaller dose?  A lot of guys claim the same effect at .25 mg with fewer side effects.


 I may try that, but what happens if that doesn't work? I think I'm either going to get completely off it or just stay on it.

I'm still waiting to hear back from *skipstah70* on his thoughts on what happens after being off Propecia ...continued hair loss? better erections? increase in semen...

----------


## bluewater

Age maybe? How old are you? We all age differently. What has it done for your  hair loss? Has it grown new hair in places you didn't have it? thicken it in others? What are the benefits as you already may know the draw backs? I can't tell if it is doing anything for me either way.

I haven't grown hair in the front and temple areas. I don't have balding on the top or in the back. The most I can claim is that it has slowed the process.

----------


## F67

> Age maybe? How old are you? We all age differently. What has it done for your  hair loss? Has it grown new hair in places you didn't have it? thicken it in others? What are the benefits as you already may know the draw backs? I can't tell if it is doing anything for me either way.
> 
> I haven't grown hair in the front and temple areas. I don't have balding on the top or in the back. The most I can claim is that it has slowed the process.


 read my previous posts from a few days ago for those answers. Propecia definitely works on the hair, but it works on destroying your penis function. At 31, when i first took Propecia, I could got all day/night long. Soon after taking it, my gf said it destroyed my sexual performance, which became non-existent. I'm not saying this will happen to everyone, that's what happened to me.

I'm not hear to tell others to get off Procpeia, that's their choice. I'm more interested in hearing from those that got off it and were able to get back to 'normal' function.

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## bluewater

Got it. This may sound like a stupid question given you would be fixing a problem that was caused by a drug with another drug , but have you tried any of the legal ED products that are out there?

----------


## skipstah70

> Thanks for your story.
> 
> I started taking Propecia when I was about 31 - I'm now 43 and have been on it for 12 years. I had erection problems within days of taking Propecia, but vanity has kept me taking it. The effects on my hair were simply amazing. If I never took Propecia, I'm sure I would be a NW5/6 by now, whereas I'm a NW3/4, right now. I want to get off Propecia, but I'm afraid my hair will fall out. I'm a professional male and what I'm doing is irrational, yet I continue.
> 
> Are you okay with continued hair loss now that you're off Propecia?
> 
> Are you married? kids?


 Hey F67, sounds like we are about in the same boat with respect to how long we've taken Propecia.  I too believe that I have had great results keeping hair on Propecia, and am quite sure that I will quickly progress to a more advanced bald stage now that I am off the drug..perhapst to a N4 or N5.  I'd rate myself a N3 now and going downhill fast.  I'm terrified at the way this will all play out with respects to losing hair.  I've always taken a great amount of pride in my looks, and am often thought to be around 30 when I'm actually 40!  Losing this type of powerful "currency" with the opposite sex has always been my motivation for staying on the drug, as I am still single.. but plan to find someone and settle down.  

With respects to having kids.. which I as of yet am still undecided, but want the option.  As I understand it, being on propecia is not advisable if you are trying to conceive.  I've heard conflicting opinions on this, and if anyone knows for sure about conception and propecia, please post info!! (seems rarely talked about).  I once had a hair consultation with a Dr. Rob Jones in Oakville, Ont. (yeah.. the one Kobren bashes regularily).  When I told him I was on already on propecia and had questions about having kids while on the drug, he almost gleefully told me that Merck or someone had just recently approved the drug in this respect and there were no issues or worries!! (this was like 2004/05).  I don't know if this is true, so if someone else does.. please elucidate!  All sensibility would tell me being on propecia and conceiving a child would NOT be advisable!!

As for being alright with not being on propecia, well.. no I'm not alright with it, but look at my options. Feels fricking GREAT to have my dick back and working fine, and I have a noticable and surprising rise in aggression, like as I remember in my 20s (feels great, but we'll see how long it lasts).  I knew my logic was ****ed when I started taking another drug to counteract the effects of the first drug I was taking (cialis for propecia).  That was the last straw for me, I thought.. this is ****ing insane.. I can't live like this anymore.

$.02

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## F67

> Got it. This may sound like a stupid question given you would be fixing a problem that was caused by a drug with another drug , but have you tried any of the legal ED products that are out there?


 Yup - i was taking ED meds to offset the challenges from Propecia. However, it was never the same. Besides, do you want to be taking a drug just before you want to have sex? For me, this is not the way to go.

What concerns me now is that my semen is very water and almost non-existent. It decreased when is started taking Propecia, but over the years, it's gotten even worse.

----------


## F67

> Hey F67, sounds like we are about in the same boat with respect to how long we've taken Propecia.  I too believe that I have had great results keeping hair on Propecia, and am quite sure that I will quickly progress to a more advanced bald stage now that I am off the drug..perhapst to a N4 or N5.  I'd rate myself a N3 now and going downhill fast.  I'm terrified at the way this will all play out with respects to losing hair.  I've always taken a great amount of pride in my looks, and am often thought to be around 30 when I'm actually 40!  Losing this type of powerful "currency" with the opposite sex has always been my motivation for staying on the drug, as I am still single.. but plan to find someone and settle down.  
> 
> With respects to having kids.. which I as of yet am still undecided, but want the option.  As I understand it, being on propecia is not advisable if you are trying to conceive.  I've heard conflicting opinions on this, and if anyone knows for sure about conception and propecia, please post info!! (seems rarely talked about).  I once had a hair consultation with a Dr. Rob Jones in Oakville, Ont. (yeah.. the one Kobren bashes regularily).  When I told him I was on already on propecia and had questions about having kids while on the drug, he almost gleefully told me that Merck or someone had just recently approved the drug in this respect and there were no issues or worries!! (this was like 2004/05).  I don't know if this is true, so if someone else does.. please elucidate!  All sensibility would tell me being on propecia and conceiving a child would NOT be advisable!!
> 
> As for being alright with not being on propecia, well.. no I'm not alright with it, but look at my options. Feels fricking GREAT to have my dick back and working fine, and I have a noticable and surprising rise in aggression, like as I remember in my 20s (feels great, but we'll see how long it lasts).  I knew my logic was ****ed when I started taking another drug to counteract the effects of the first drug I was taking (cialis for propecia).  That was the last straw for me, I thought.. this is ****ing insane.. I can't live like this anymore.
> 
> $.02


 Thanks for your 2 cents, much appreciated.

Funnily, we're quite similar. I, too, look in my early 30s. Most of the girls I date are between 21 and 32 - not bad for a 43year old. However, like you, who the hell wants to take frickin' ED meds to bang girls. I feel like it's  a sham.

There is a big part of me that wants to be natural and accept hair loss. For me, the final straw was the non-existent sperm. If there was any ejaculate, it as very watery. I'm also single, but would like to have kids and I can't see myself being able to father a child went I'm shooting blanks!

Do you have any strategy to guide you through this impending hair loss? I'm still on Propecia and thinking getting my hair cut very shot (almost head shaved, but not quite). There is no way I'll wear a wig...

F67

PS. Are you in Ontario? I'm in Alberta

----------


## dfoz

> can any medical professionals on the site care to comment?


 That is very unfortunate. If anyone is waiting for a CURE, you wont find it from big pharma, im sorry you wont. they arent after a cure because if there's a cure, you wont be a customer anymore. im sorry, its the sad truth. as you can see they are looking out for themselves, not for us and our health. I did find a way to cure myself and it was through nutrition. it cost me nothing. no products, no treatments. i have written how i did it on my health blog here: http://rockmybody.wordpress.com/2010...i-got-it-back/

it was 100% safe, no side effects no nothing. There arent many people on this diet who are bald. ive heard one guy say he was balding until he started this diet and his hair stopped receding. my hair, my skin, my health is amazing now. i have thick hair, glowing skin and i dont remember the last time i was sick. i really, really, really hope it helps. all the information is free and i will be adding to it as i find more information so stay tuned to that post.

----------


## ryan555

> That is very unfortunate. If anyone is waiting for a CURE, you wont find it from big pharma, im sorry you wont. they arent after a cure because if there's a cure, you wont be a customer anymore. im sorry, its the sad truth. as you can see they are looking out for themselves, not for us and our health. I did find a way to cure myself and it was through nutrition. it cost me nothing. no products, no treatments. i have written how i did it on my health blog here: http://rockmybody.wordpress.com/2010...i-got-it-back/
> 
> it was 100% safe, no side effects no nothing. There arent many people on this diet who are bald. ive heard one guy say he was balding until he started this diet and his hair stopped receding. my hair, my skin, my health is amazing now. i have thick hair, glowing skin and i dont remember the last time i was sick. i really, really, really hope it helps. all the information is free and i will be adding to it as i find more information so stay tuned to that post.


 I don't think it's a conspiracy.  The only way to "cure" baldness is by altering genetics and there are indeed companies working on that.  Even the new tissue regeneration products are not meant to be a cure, just another treatment option. 

Not to crap on your point, but I have been on nearly the exact diet you advocate for over 15 years and it did not stop my hair from falling out.  Propecia is the only thing that ever helped with that.

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## dfoz

hi ryan,

no worries man, you didnt crap on any point. im not here to be right, im here to learn and help and share information.

im really curious what kind of diet were you on for 15 years? im sorry to hear it didnt help. are you sure it was my diet? as in a raw vegan diet? or was it a diet with lots of vegetables but everything was cooked and you still ate meat, and drank coffee and ate pasta and bread?

oh btw, becareful with the word 'conspiracy'. that word can be used to throw information out the window without first actually looking at it. if you look at the information you'll find its effective business, thats all. is it a conspiracy that finasteride is bad for us? no, that stuff is very bad for us, true fact.

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## Gubter_87

I believe nutrition is underrated when it comes to a lot of things. 
The recommended daily intake of a vitamin or mineral is merely based on a figure where 98 % of the population will not get deficiency symptoms. It is NOT based on the accurate measure to provide health benefits nor is it based on the upper lever for toxicity.

I have spoken to professors who are reseraching in the field and according to them nutrition  can actually go into cells and change gene expression. So if you say that your diet helped with your hair loss, then I believe you. However I don't believe it will work for everyone, and I would never recommend that someone who feels really depressed gets off finasteride to try it.

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## dfoz

> I believe nutrition is underrated when it comes to a lot of things. 
> The recommended daily intake of a vitamin or mineral is merely based on a figure where 98 % of the population will not get deficiency symptoms. It is NOT based on the accurate measure to provide health benefits nor is it based on the upper lever for toxicity.
> 
> I have spoken to professors who are reseraching in the field and according to them nutrition  can actually go into cells and change gene expression. So if you say that your diet helped with your hair loss, then I believe you. However I don't believe it will work for everyone, and I would never recommend that someone who feels really depressed gets off finasteride to try it.


 Thanks man, I totally agree with you with everything you said. I always mention that this might not work for everyone. As long as people are aware of the dangerous effects of finasteride, as well as the positives and dangers of other treatments, they are completely free to choose whatever they want. Im not against that at all, im just providing another alternative.

do the professors you have spoken to have any papers out on the subject or anything i can read or find more information about? sounds really interesting. when you say they are in the field, do you mean hair field or general gene field?

cheers man!

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## Gubter_87

The professor that held the lecture I had in mind is reseraching different aspects of nutrition. I am really just starting to get into it in my studies, so can't really be of much hellp. But I am sure you can find loads of information about it out there.

An example would be that Zink and carbohydrates will affect neural transmittors and hormones, which in the end will affect how genes are expressed.

And once again I just want to say that I do not believe that balding is caused by bad diet or deficiencies. However I do believe that by changing your diet you can affect how your genes are expressed, and that can both be inhibiting and aggravating when it comes to balding.

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## ryan555

> hi ryan,
> 
> no worries man, you didnt crap on any point. im not here to be right, im here to learn and help and share information.
> 
> im really curious what kind of diet were you on for 15 years? im sorry to hear it didnt help. are you sure it was my diet? as in a raw vegan diet? or was it a diet with lots of vegetables but everything was cooked and you still ate meat, and drank coffee and ate pasta and bread?
> 
> oh btw, becareful with the word 'conspiracy'. that word can be used to throw information out the window without first actually looking at it. if you look at the information you'll find its effective business, thats all. is it a conspiracy that finasteride is bad for us? no, that stuff is very bad for us, true fact.


 I've been a vegan for 20 years.  Over the past 15, I have eliminated almost all refined sugar, alcohol, caffeine, etc.  A few years ago, I also discovered I was allergic to soy and eliminated that as well.  

As far as the "conspiracy" point, I don't believe it's safe to make a blanket statement that finasteride is "bad for us."  I personally don't feel any different since I stopped taking the drug several months ago so I'm not sure it was harming me.  While I will agree that the natural state is ideal, that doesn't mean that most guys are harmed by taking it.  For guys with BPH or who are at risk of prostate cancer, one could make the argument that the medication is actually good for them.  Even for those who take it for cosmetic purposes, they might be better off than living with the extreme anxiety and depression that some experience over hair loss.  Again, all drugs have side effects, the benefit vs risk is what determines if the drug is a good treatment or not.

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## Gubter_87

ryan555; Spot on!
For me the anxiety, depression, social phobia, sleep disturbance and lack of life energy and all the other symptoms my hair loss is causing is way more detrimental to my health than finasteride could ever be...

I wish that I had started finasteride earlier and that I had been consistent in my use of it - because then it is likely that my hair would be in a better state than it is right now.

Sure there are risks involved in everything we do, and I am not saying that finasteride may not cause permanent side effects or whatever. It's just that the risk/benefit ratio, for me, makes being on finasteride a no brainer.

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## Halo7557



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