# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments >  My before and after 8 week igrow progress

## thechamp

My before and after 8 week igrow progress been using minoxdill five percent twice a day for 7 months added igrow two months in  positive results you be the judge.

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## UK_

**** off.

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## thechamp

This is my before igrow pic my top post is today's pic

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## thechamp

> **** off.


 Have a look at both pics before telling me to **** off ok the bottom pic is before the one at the top is after

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## thechamp

This pic is another before I added the igrow my hair is feeling and looking thicker

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## Jazz1

Nice result.

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## Jazz1

> **** off.


 Nice eh,  :Big Grin:  shocking response lol.

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## thechamp

I think igrow maybe effective for people with hair loss that's not aggressive like me so I think it makes hair thicker like your experiencing jazz I just wonder how long the effect will last.

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## Jazz1

> I think igrow maybe effective for people with hair loss that's not aggressive like me so I think it makes hair thicker like your experiencing jazz I just wonder how long the effect will last.


 Carry on using it, :Big Grin: .

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## thechamp

> Carry on using it,.


 Jazz post some pics I'm really confident in the igrow and I think people should stop bagging this product

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## Mike K

This is impressive. Will you please keep us posted? I've thought about trying this thing honestly the main thing stopping me is that I work 2 weeks out of the month on an oil rig and stay in a trailer on site. I don't think I could hide using it from coworkers and I would get some ribbing because of it.

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## Notcoolanymore

> **** off.


 lol

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## Jazz1

I'm not posting nothing yet as I have alopecia areata come up again! Something's working who knows rest hair feels thicker but again I started promox same time.

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## Notcoolanymore

Your hair does appear thicker in the after pic.  Your arm hair that is.

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## thechamp

> Your hair does appear thicker in the after pic.  Your arm hair that is.


 lol honestly I can't believe how thick my hair is feeling I'll post pics in a few months if this continues . I just pinching my self ATM because it's working

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## Notcoolanymore

> lol honestly I can't believe how thick my hair is feeling I'll post pics in a few months if this continues . I just pinching my self ATM because it's working


 Good thing you can take a joke, unlike many around these parts.  If it working and you are seeing results, keep using it.

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## thechamp

> Good thing you can take a joke, unlike many around these parts.  If it working and you are seeing results, keep using it.


 Man look how uk treated me telling me to **** off, I honestly think you can call igrow part of  the big 4 !

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## Jazz1

> Man look how uk treated me telling me to **** off, I honestly think you can call igrow part of  the big 4 !


 How much did you pay? Mine was 700! Something is working today was the 12th person who said my facial hair is dyed!!!!! Either laser or promox or both in conjunction Is doing something even to my facial hair!

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## greatjob!

Are there even any people suffering from mpb on tbt? Seriously champ you spend a crazy amount of time on these forums and have an amazing head of hair wtf!! Are you related to yeahyeahyeah?

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## thechamp

> How much did you pay? Mine was 700! Something is working today was the 12th person who said my facial hair is dyed!!!!! Either laser or promox or both in conjunction Is doing something even to my facial hair!


 I paid the same as you apparently doke got it cheaper and staythick got it cheap too

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## Notcoolanymore

> Man look how uk treated me telling me to **** off, *I honestly think you can call igrow part of  the big 4 !*


 So you are saying at $700, the igrow is worth every penny?!

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## thechamp

> So you are saying at $700, the igrow is worth every penny?!


 He'll yeh man it's Working I'm positive more people on this forum will see results

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## Jazz1

I'm talking pounds! Not bloody dollars lol, like I've said once my stupid alopecia areata from stress grows back il post pictures. Promox works for me great but in February I started the igrow and Promox sprays must be both in conjunction I don't know. But I'm more confident in Promox as prior I was using the  lotion with good success for a year. I only bought the laser as I heard it works on woman so I thought it might help in conjunction with the procures I'm currently holding my hair.

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## Notcoolanymore

> I'm talking pounds! Not bloody dollars lol, like I've said once my stupid alopecia areata from stress grows back il post pictures. Promox works for me great but in February I started the igrow and Promox sprays must be both in conjunction I don't know. But I'm more confident in Promox as prior I was using the  lotion with good success for a year. I only bought the laser as I heard it works on woman so I thought it might help in conjunction with the procures I'm currently holding my hair.


 Damn, that's over a grand here in the US!

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## Jazz1

> He'll yeh man it's Working I'm positive more people on this forum will see results


 No point getting hopes up for people as lasers are crap if people are not holding their hair with DHT blockers. The key is to have success on the big 3 then maybe try lasers, can't guarantee it to work on everyone just like meds. Reason it works better on woman is their hairloss not worse  as men. I'm just half fed up and I agree most the forum is, we get bulshit stuff coming out and still carrying on slowly losing hair. It pisses me of they can't come up with something we can buy regular that can for life maintain every hair we have without bloody slowly receding. The whole hairloss industry just like bloody cancer is a Business makes sense why we never have a cure and always read the crap about how they are 5 years away, I bet they have the cure but corporations need money profit through treatments.

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## Jazz1

> Damn, that's over a grand here in the US!


 Bloody UK! It's a joke and if I order from America I get hit by stupid customs! The device itself defiantly does not look to be worth 700 pounds the quality looks bloody cheap, just hope the bloody thing works!  I look like an idiot from a star trek film lol.

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## Jazz1

Just using the helmet now as I type, one thing I noticed if I put my hand flat just below the device on my forehead I can feel some slight very slight heat.

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## Notcoolanymore

> Bloody UK! It's a joke and if I order from America I get hit by stupid customs! The device itself defiantly does not look to be worth 700 pounds the quality looks bloody cheap, just hope the bloody thing works!  I look like an idiot from a star trek film lol.


 The level of our desperation dictates the price.  The thing is I wouldn't mind the price if I knew the shit was going to work.  These devices usually come with a 6 month money back guarantee.  Is 6 months even long enough to determine if it really works?

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## Jazz1

> The level of our desperation dictates the price.  The thing is I wouldn't mind the price if I knew the shit was going to work.  These devices usually come with a 6 month money back guarantee.  Is 6 months even long enough to determine if it really works?


 To be honest I wouldn't give into their sales tactic bullshit, they make it seem like every other bullshit on the market it's a cure. Maybe it helps slightly if your doing well on the big3 but don't expect a miracle like they claim.

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## Notcoolanymore

That right there is the reason why I will not buy one of these.  I just cannot justify spending over $1000 on something that will give me a subtle change.

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## Jazz1

> That right there is the reason why I will not buy one of these.  I just cannot justify spending over $1000 on something that will give me a subtle change.


 Don't fund them best way, all these greedy jerks are scamming us off by making cure claims all the time. The pharmaceutical industry is the biggest jerks, they rob nature and sell it to us!

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## thechamp

Well maybe my hair loss is not as rapid  of the guys on here that's why it's working for me the build quality looks cheap but I'm getting results simple as that

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## Jazz1

> Well maybe my hair loss is not as rapid  of the guys on here that's why it's working for me the build quality looks cheap but I'm getting results simple as that


 Do you feel you can feel very slight heat? When it's on check with your top hand under laser.

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## StayThick

Hey guys, I didn't get mine cheap. I paid retail for the igrow. I paid $700 exactly, shipped to my house. For $700 it is pricey and the thing looks and feels cheap as hell, but whatever. The hairloss industry is a joke and makes a living off desperate people like me willing to do anything to save their hair.

So far I have been using it almost 2 weeks EOD. I hope to see some results, as I am not bald, but diffuse at the moment. There is a 6 month money back guarantee that I have referenced on here that if it doesn't work within 6 months I can return it and be refunded all but $140 restocking fee. $140 is not much to me to try something 6 months and evaluate it's result. I've always wanted to see if lasers were truly a scam personally, so now is my chance.  

I will post pics of my progress during this time.. if there is any. I'm currently using this along with minox and premixed RU. Let's see what happens...

PS: I have no clue how I'm going to hide this from my girlfriend when she eventually moves in, no way can I look at her in the face and explain a beaming, red blazing space cap on my head. Total embarrassment. 

And one last thing, I may not have movie star locks, but if you have any sort of "game" and personality or show some confidence (albeit hair provides that) you can date a smoke show model. My girl is completely smoking and she does not care about my hair thinning, then again she hasn't seen me in water...lol! Just have confidence and personality fellas!! I hate hearing that as much as the next guy, trust me, but it's what she always tells me she loves the most. Hopefully a cure will come in the near future!

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## Jazz1

> Hey guys, I didn't get mine cheap. I paid retail for the igrow. I paid $700 exactly, shipped to my house. For $700 it is pricey and the thing looks and feels cheap as hell, but whatever. The hairloss industry is a joke and makes a living off desperate people like me willing to do anything to save their hair.
> 
> So far I have been using it almost 2 weeks EOD. I hope to see some results, as I am not bald, but diffuse at the moment. There is a 6 month money back guarantee that I have referenced on here that if it doesn't work within 6 months I can return it and be refunded all but $140 restocking fee. $140 is not much to me to try something 6 months and evaluate it's result. I've always wanted to see if lasers were truly a scam personally, so now is my chance.  
> 
> I will post pics of my progress during this time.. if there is any. I'm currently using this along with minox and premixed RU. Let's see what happens...
> 
> PS: I have no clue how I'm going to hide this from my girlfriend when she eventually moves in, no way can I look at her in the face and explain a beaming, red blazing space cap on my head. Total embarrassment. 
> 
> And one last thing, I may not have movie star locks, but if you have any sort of "game" and personality or show some confidence (albeit hair provides that) you can date a smoke show model. My girl is completely smoking and she does not care about my hair thinning, then again she hasn't seen me in water...lol! Just have confidence and personality fellas!! I hate hearing that as much as the next guy, trust me, but it's what she always tells me she loves the most. Hopefully a cure will come in the near future!


 
Good luck I'm also using it since February along side Promox, il be buying Ru soon as back up but I'm currently doing well on the big 3. Recently my hair seems thicker since adding Promox and laser but I'm more pin pointing it to Promox as the lotion last year thickened and regrew some hairs. Anyhow the part I'm annoyed my hair was so perfect until recently I had major stress and I have 5 bloody alopecia areata patches I'm now treating! Had them in the past they always grew back with garlic mixture  takes time but hope these ones come back!

My girlfriend seriously does not care, she said she would love me even if I was bald, but I love my hair  :Frown: . Funny thing she laughs because I send her pictures when I use the igrow lol I'm very open about my hairloss with her and she supports me 100%.

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## Buster

> PS: I have no clue how I'm going to hide this from my girlfriend when she eventually moves in, no way can I look at her in the face and explain a beaming, red blazing space cap on my head. Total embarrassment.


 Star Trek convention?

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## thechamp

[QUOTE=StayThick;169983]Hey guys, I didn't get mine cheap. I paid retail for the igrow. I paid $700 exactly, shipped to my house. For $700 it is pricey and the thing looks and feels cheap as hell, but whatever. The hairloss industry is a joke and makes a living off desperate people like me willing to do anything to save their hair.

So far I have been using it almost 2 weeks EOD. I hope to see some results, as I am not bald, but diffuse at the moment. There is a 6 month money back guarantee that I have referenced on here that if it doesn't work within 6 months I can return it and be refunded all but $140 restocking fee. $140 is not much to me to try something 6 months and evaluate it's result. I've always wanted to see if lasers were truly a scam personally, so now is my chance.  

I will post pics of my progress during this time.. if there is any. I'm currently using this along with minox and premixed RU. Let's see what happens...

PS: I have no clue how I'm going to hide this from my girlfriend when she eventually moves in, no way can I look at her in the face and explain a beaming, red blazing space cap on my head. Total embarrassment. 

And one last thing, I may not have movie star locks, but if you have any sort of "game" and personality or show some confidence (albeit hair provides that) you can date a smoke show model. My girl is completely smoking and she does not care about my hair thinning, then again she hasn't seen me in water...lol! Just have confidence and personality fellas!! I hate hearing that as much as the next guy, trust me, but it's what she always tells me she loves the most. Hopefully a cure will come in the near future![/ 

Man I'm telling you it may look cheap but I'm getting results

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## Notcoolanymore

> So far I have been using it almost 2 weeks EOD. I hope to see some results, as I am not bald, but diffuse at the moment. There is a 6 month money back guarantee that I have referenced on here that if it doesn't work within 6 months I can return it and be refunded all but $140 restocking fee. $140 is not much to me to try something 6 months and evaluate it's result. I've always wanted to see if lasers were truly a scam personally, so now is my chance.  
> 
> PS: I have no clue how I'm going to hide this from my girlfriend when she eventually moves in, no way can I look at her in the face and explain a beaming, red blazing space cap on my head. Total embarrassment.


 How quickly are you suppose to see results with laser therapy?  If it is suppose to take longer then 6 months, then they kind of have you by the balls.   When you call them they will say you need to use it longer to see results.  What will you do then, return it and never know if it truly works?

As far as your girlfriend moving in.  Just find a place to hide your helmet and use it when she isn't there.  If that is not an option then just use it in a different room and lock the door.  If she asks you whats up just tell her you are looking at online porn and masturbating.  Tell her that you have a very high sex drive and need to relieve yourself EOD, for around 30 minutes(or how ever long you need to use the device).  If she loves you she will understand.

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## StayThick

> How quickly are you suppose to see results with laser therapy?  If it is suppose to take longer then 6 months, then they kind of have you by the balls.   When you call them they will say you need to use it longer to see results.  What will you do then, return it and never know if it truly works?
> 
> As far as your girlfriend moving in.  Just find a place to hide your helmet and use it when she isn't there.  If that is not an option then just use it in a different room and lock the door.  If she asks you whats up just tell her you are looking at online porn and masturbating.  Tell her that you have a very high sex drive and need to relieve yourself EOD, for around 30 minutes(or how ever long you need to use the device).  If she loves you she will understand.


 Hahahahahaha! This is some sound advice right there my friend. I literally spit my water out reading that last paragraph. I think I'll follow through on your recommendation there.

Regarding the helmet, they say results can be seen in as little as 6 weeks so I am not sure. I think 6 months is ample time to test this thing out. If it works, I will know it is due to the helmet. So I'll keep everyone posted. 

Great response not cool!

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## UK_

> Man look how uk treated me telling me to **** off, I honestly think you can call igrow part of  the big 4 !


 Yeah... right... I'm sure if you placed this useless contraption on the head of a NW7 he would be a NW1 after 6 months of usage.

Yeah... right.

This shit doesnt grow new hair or prevent MPB... it just makes your hair appear fuller/thicker because you're running a charge over your scalp, you people can go ahead and waste another $700 of money you slaved over for though.  The human race is nearly a century of research away from being able to even come close to curing MPB, we're too stupid... I mean look at us... look at this thread... it just shows why we havent cured MPB yet... we're all ****ing stupid.

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## thechamp

> Yeah... right... I'm sure if you placed this useless contraption on the head of a NW7 he would be a NW1 after 6 months of usage.
> 
> Yeah... right.
> 
> This shit doesnt grow new hair or prevent MPB... it just makes your hair appear fuller/thicker because you're running a charge over your scalp, you people can go ahead and waste another $700 of money you slaved over for though.  The human race is nearly a century of research away from being able to even come close to curing MPB, we're too stupid... I mean look at us... look at this thread... it just shows why we havent cured MPB yet... we're all ****ing stupid.


 You can say what you want uk but I can't wait to upload more pics in a few months and rub my results in your face dickhead

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## thechamp

Here is a pic of my hair today my hair has got better from the igrow now look at my hair you can see improvement for me igrow is working

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## baldybald

what are you doing in the forum thechamp?

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## thechamp

> what are you doing in the forum thechamp?


 Go to the start of this topic and look at my before pics

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## baldybald

i did before i post, and still what are you doing here?
you have a little bit of thinning which no need to get concerned.

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## thechamp

> i did before i post, and still what are you doing here?
> you have a little bit of thinning which no need to get concerned.


 Yes it is it's the start of mpb and I can't take fin because of sides

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## baldybald

here we go, the same song" because of side effect"
good luck bro but remember that laser cap will not save your hair for long time.

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## thechamp

> here we go, the same song" because of side effect"
> good luck bro but remember that laser cap will not save your hair for long time.


 I do get side effects major weight gain can not take fin

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## Mike K

Don't listen to him the champ your results look great thank you for keeping us all posted I hope this continues to work well for you I may even try it myself someday. Best of luck.

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## baldybald

am not saying it does not look good, it looks much better, but sooner or later it will be out of control. propecia gets useless but after 5-10. always hairloss win!

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## Mike K

Well, maybe he can get 5-10 out of the laser hat? And maybe by then something good will be out that he can take without side effects? There's really no reason for him not to use the hat its obviously working even if it is only short term at least he will buy some time. And personally, I hope he continues to post because this looks encouraging and I would like to see how well it works and for how long. Aren't you at least curious?

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## baldybald

curious? no. because i know the what is going to happen. the main problem is your hormone, if you did not stop it it will attack your hair till gets smaller and smaller till it disappear. laser does not stop your hormone neither rogaine.

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## Mike K

Well I'm curious. Until recently I thought this laser business was a joke, but there seems to be a lot of legitimate results online. If people do get long term results on it I might hop on this.

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## thechamp

> curious? no. because i know the what is going to happen. the main problem is your hormone, if you did not stop it it will attack your hair till gets smaller and smaller till it disappear. laser does not stop your hormone neither rogaine.


 I have had so many mixed opinions about my hair loss from doctors one saying I have mpb the other saying I have hair loss due to stress , if minoxdill 5 percent stops working I'll bump it up to ten percent

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## Notcoolanymore

thechamp has KO'd his hair loss.  Keep up the good work.  Champ, Do you dermaroll by any chance.  I know there are plenty of guys that are against dermarolling immediately before applying minoxidil, because of absorption into the bloodstream.  I cant say I disagree with them, but I wonder if the result would be improved if you DM'd, applied minox, then immediately used laser therapy.

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## thechamp

> thechamp has KO'd his hair loss.  Keep up the good work.  Champ, Do you dermaroll by any chance.  I know there are plenty of guys that are against dermarolling immediately before applying minoxidil, because of absorption into the bloodstream.  I cant say I disagree with them, but I wonder if the result would be improved if you DM'd, applied minox, then immediately used laser therapy.


 Did you read the killer stack for baldness on cutting edge the guy clams he cured his baldness with dermorolling laser  minoxdill if my hair loss gets worse I might dermoroll

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## Notcoolanymore

> Did you read the killer stack for baldness on cutting edge the guy clams he cured his baldness with dermorolling laser  minoxdill if my hair loss gets worse I might dermoroll


 Yes I did read that thread.  The dude wasn't very convincing and provided no pics so I dismissed what he had to say.  I am not saying I am sold on laser just yet.  Just throwing ideas out there.  It will be interesting to see how things turn out for you.  It would be even more interesting to see somebody with advanced hair loss get results with laser therapy.

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## Cob984

guys dont delude yourselves, yes hairlaser adds to result but only if on minox or AA

thechamp would 100&#37; not get these results if minox wasnt in the regimen.

Solo laser will not do anything

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## greatjob!

> guys dont delude yourselves, yes hairlaser adds to result but only if on minox or AA
> 
> thechamp would 100% not get these results if minox wasnt in the regimen.
> 
> Solo laser will not do anything


 It doesn't look like it did anything for him either. He had a perfect head of hair in both the before and afters, in fact I can't believe he spends so much time on here or that he's here at all. I'm starting to think there aren't even any bald people on tbt

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## Jazz1

> guys dont delude yourselves, yes hairlaser adds to result but only if on minox or AA
> 
> thechamp would 100% not get these results if minox wasnt in the regimen.
> 
> Solo laser will not do anything


 I agree on this as most woman getting laser success were on minoxidil.

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## thechamp

> guys dont delude yourselves, yes hairlaser adds to result but only if on minox or AA
> 
> thechamp would 100% not get these results if minox wasnt in the regimen.
> 
> Solo laser will not do anything


 But the igrow is a great addition to the big 3 so basically add the igrow to the big 3 and get better results  :Smile:

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## Jcm800

May as well just use minox?

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## thechamp

> May as well just use minox?


 There no point posting positive  results on this site people are always  negative

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## Jcm800

Your hair looks as thick as it did two or three years ago? Have you even got MPB?

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## thechamp

> Your hair looks as thick as it did two or three years ago? Have you even got MPB?


 I have been diagnosed with mpb from two diffrent doctors and I have also been diagnosed with stress from hair loss from another hair specialist so I don't know

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## Notcoolanymore

> But the *igrow is a great addition to the big 3* so basically add the igrow to the big 3 and get better results


 =The big 4

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## Notcoolanymore

> I'm starting to think there aren't even any bald people on tbt


 I do, and it doesn't look good.

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## Bocaj

> guys dont delude yourselves, yes hairlaser adds to result but only if on minox or AA
> 
> thechamp would 100% not get these results if minox wasnt in the regimen.
> 
> Solo laser will not do anything


 I agree that to use LLLT alone is insane..but I don't think minox or fin are your only choices  :EEK!:

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## Notcoolanymore

> I agree that to use LLLT alone is insane..but I don't think minox or fin are your only choices


 You are probably right.  The problem with other treatments is that there really isn't much documentation that they work.  I am talking about long term results, years later perhaps.

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## Hair Bear

I can tell you that there are bold people on this forum, I think everyone sees themselves as worse of than the next person.
I personally haven't posted images of my head but can tell you that what I have going on is not a good look at all, retrospectively I probably should have gotten onto minoxodil early and salvaged my hair because honestly everything I have tried over the years has been absolute rubbish and pack of lies.
The only success I can report is that I managed to find a shampoo/conditioner which does not irritate my scalp, but even purchasing this shampoo/conditioner is a pain as its not available locally.

I'd like to purchase a theradome and see how it compares but its not available locally as I suspect it is in the process of getting TGA approved.

Btw I use Revita Shampoo/Conditioner and live in Australia.

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## thechamp

[QUOTE=Hair Bear;170200]I can tell you that there are bold people on this forum, I think everyone sees themselves as worse of than the next person.
I personally haven't posted images of my head but can tell you that what I have going on is not a good look at all, retrospectively I probably should have gotten onto minoxodil early and salvaged my hair because honestly everything I have tried over the years has been absolute rubbish and pack of lies.
The only success I can report is that I managed to find a shampoo/conditioner which does not irritate my scalp, but even purchasing this shampoo/conditioner is a pain as its not available locally.

I'd like to purchase a theradome and see how it compares but its not available locally as I suspect it is in the process of getting TGA approved.

Btw I use Revita Shampoo/Conditioner and live in Australia.[/QUOTE

I'm in Perth Australia you can order the thermadome online man

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## Hair Bear

Cool, I have seen it available from one store which charges well over retail price and that is also putting into consideration the exchange rates and shipping.
The website I have seen is selling them for over $1000, correct me if I am mistaken but does this sound familiar.

The Theradome device has not yet officially been launched in Australia.

On a side note your hair is looking fantastic as always, I would suggest you get another opinion on this hair loss thing because you are looking pretty sharp, even back in the day of the trx2 threads your hair looked good but its always hard to tell online and if this new program is keeping you happy then I am happy for you.

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## Bocaj

They made the Theradome so great they had to update/grade it already. So much for the genius NASA guy behind the operation.

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## Hair Bear

hahaha, what did they update on it? You seem to know a lot more about this than I do. 
I want to purchase a laser helmet but always have my reservations, both igrow and Theradome seem to have their drawbacks.

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## Bocaj

See the salesman's post at ************. Any suc...I mean ppl.. who bought the thing or will soon are paying for them to get it right. Hilarious. I've responded to a bit of what's been going on over at hairlossfight. All I know is some of us have found out more about things than someone who's buddies with the CEO- even visited the place. Or more likely he just doesn't want us to know. 

I think they all have their pluses and minuses. The LaserCap is cool- but expensive, and you still have to get it through a Dr. or salon or something I think. Although..I have seen it on those korean/chinese mega-sites but didn't inquire about the cost. Then what do you do if it goes out on you...

Then there's the Laserfish http://www.lllt-therapy.com/ - see his reviews on his competitors. There's OMG's. Etc etc.

The thing Igrow has for them is they actually have at least a bit of evidence to back up their product with. Theradome has no such thing- they received FDA approval via the MEP-90, with is an entirely different unit- diff lasers etc.  Then they say the Igrow did better than that clinical unit MEP-90....go figure.

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## Bocaj

Actually his review page mentions that Chinese sourced LaserCap- at the bottom: http://www.lllt-therapy.com/laser_he...ser_cap_review

It has more lasers and is $1200, according to him.  Cut that in half and they'll fly off the shelves...

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## Hair Bear

At the end of the day the OMG laser helmet is by far the very best however it needs to be refined so it doesn't look like some mad scientist contraption.  :Big Grin: 
I am now considering buying an igrow laser helmet topped with the fact that they are similarly priced in Australia well..

The only thing is I don't understand the need for LED's and just see it as a means to create an illusion of great luminescent power to the casual observer, the other factor is the lack of actual lasers and am concerned about how much coverage it will actually have.

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## Bocaj

I always thought the same about Igrow- thought it was gimmicky etc. But you can't argue with a study, even if that doesn't mean it's going to work for you or everybody. Then...here's some info, some on LED's..that a mari0s posted in another forum:

**Compilative studies** about current research and scientific principle behind LLLT
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t8x82i9809...tment%20of.pdf
http://www.escholarship.org/uc/item/1jt041t2

**Clinical studies**
- Coreans (Oaze) https://www.dropbox.com/s/66fm4kjfk7...%2024-Week.pdf
- Americans (igrow) https://www.dropbox.com/s/wn7rg07czn...ible%20Red.pdf

**Others* wawelengths/LED**
- Europeans (LDS100 - infrared) http://www.corporacioncapilar.es/pdf/LDS100.pdf
- University of Baghdad (  :Big Grin: ) for AA, infrared http://www.healthpointlaser.com/wp-c...iode_Laser.pdf
- McDaniels (LED) abstract/patent http://www.baumanmedical.com/Portals...hairgrowth.PDF http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20100055789.pdf

________________________

And then I recently came across that Japanese helmet/device which seems to be LED-based..the HairRepro. 

And this: http://www.google.com/patents/EP2508228A1?cl=en

----------


## Hair Bear

Extremely interesting, thanks so much Jacob! You are always a remarkable source of information.

----------


## StayThick

Hey guys, is everyone using their iGrow every other day per instructions? Also, I noticed the 2 suction cup type branches that extend from the front land right on my much needed temporal region. Are these auction cups equipped with lasers or they strictly there to hold the device in place.

It sucks because that's the area that needs the most attention and I feel the lares aren't hitting the corners. Thoughts?

Also, any progress from any using this helmet?

----------


## Hair Bear

Any progress from anyone here regarding the igrow helmet?

----------


## thechamp

> Any progress from anyone here regarding the igrow helmet?


 For my hair ATM best money I have ever spent on my hair it's done what it's advertised to do thicker stronger hair I'm happy hair loss has halted

----------


## Jcm800

I have difficulty believing that champ.

----------


## goldnt

> For my hair ATM best money I have ever spent on my hair it's done what it's advertised to do thicker stronger hair I'm happy hair loss has halted


 I *REALLY* want to believe you and I *REALLY* do but i just have a gut feeling that its not what you make it seem.

----------


## Jcm800

Fact is champ doesn't even appear to have hair loss, tho for the last several yrs he's been saying he has.

----------


## thechamp

> Fact is champ doesn't even appear to have hair loss, tho for the last several yrs he's been saying he has.


 Fair Enough jc I'll post before and after pics in about 3 weeks it will be 16 weeks like the igrow study but my hair isucj thicker and fuller since adding the igrow to nizoral and minoxdill believe me or not .

----------


## StayThick

> Any progress from anyone here regarding the igrow helmet?


 Guys, unlike champ I have clear hairloss and I am a diffuse thinner. I'm I believe 5-6 weeks into my igrow helmet and so far have noticed added thickness to my crown and mid-scalp. Nothing along the hairline where I need it most.

Now I'm not going to say this is a cure or will show continued results, I'm not that naive, but I will say I have seen cosmetic improvement which makes me a tad, emphasis on tad, excited about what continued use with thing will yeld moving forward.

I have pictures from before igrow and will take additional photos after 3 months. Bottom line, coverage has increased in crown and mid-scalp. Hair feels thicker and I judge this by how it feels obviously, appearance under a hand mirror overlooking the top of my scalp, and when my hair is wet. How much scalp I see.

It's enough for me to be a tad optimistic. I did have a shed for a few weeks when I started guys and I never get sheds with any treatments. I did with this, but now in realizing it was a good sign.

I'll relay any progress as time goes on. Thought I'd chime in because I do have hairloss and am a regular on these forums.

Good luck everyone.

----------


## Notcoolanymore

Looks like this thing really does work.  I look forward to seeing your guys pics.  The Igrow is officially part of the big 4.

----------


## Jcm800

OK champ, I'll also look forward to everyone's pictures, although champ your hair always looks decent.

----------


## thechamp

Have a look at this igrow result fingers crossed this is the real deal

----------


## Hair Bear

> Have a look at this igrow result fingers crossed this is the real deal


 If this were to be a true indication then I would be happy to achieve such results, in all honesty my baldness can be best compared to this gentlemen's hair in a way if not a slight bit worse but very similar.

I would also like to thank everyone contributing to this thread.
If I do purchase an igrow helmet I shall have to devise my findings evenly as I am currently experimenting with Minox so I will have to wait until I get to a stable point as to which I can draw clear conclusions on the matter as I always aim to be as honest as possible, its a matter of honor, integrity and not only respect to oneself but to others here which are fighting the same fight we all are. There is no room for lies and you won't ever see me spinning them.

Time will tell where this all leads, there is always a period of hype but fortunately for everyone here I am at a point where I am really pushing to achieve results (within a safe responsible manner).

----------


## Hair Bear

Just an update to inform everyone that I have purchased an igrow Laser helmet. Keep up the fight everyone and be well.  :Wink:

----------


## thechamp

I just wanted to point out if you google over macho grande he makes the laser messiah and says his product is far superior to the igrow, but he has no before and after pics I can see I'm wondering if the igrow has gotten results from the led lights in it ?

----------


## thechamp

Red light from Laser and LED devices emitting 650-670nm wavelength light can stimulate cells within the follicle, as part of an effective LLLT hair treatment. The Laser light produces a specific wavelength that is believed to stimulate the hair follicle cells. The LED light uses a broader beam of gentle light energy to cover a wider area of the scalp. Combining the Lasers and LEDs offers the benefit of both light sources for men with androgenetic alopecia (thinning hair).

----------


## joely

I tried to order one from the Igrow website yesterday and I have just had an email saying they have voided the sale!

Any ideas where I can buy one in the UK?

----------


## Bocaj

http://www.igrowlaser.co.uk/

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hands-free-IGROW/dp/B004J58WI4

----------


## Bocaj

> Red light from Laser and LED devices emitting 650-670nm wavelength light can stimulate cells within the follicle, as part of an effective LLLT hair treatment. The Laser light produces a specific wavelength that is believed to stimulate the hair follicle cells. The LED light uses a broader beam of gentle light energy to cover a wider area of the scalp. Combining the Lasers and LEDs offers the benefit of both light sources for men with androgenetic alopecia (thinning hair).


 Yeah there's a lot of ridiculing of LEDs..yet there is a bit of evidence they can actually do something.

----------


## joely

thanks bocaj any idea why in America its $695 and the uk£695 why the difference in price?

----------


## Bocaj

I guess to cover their costs..I dunno. Maybe they use the same #'s thinking they're fooling people  :Wink:

----------


## Bocaj

Have you tried the regular Amazon site or other places to see if they'll ship to you?

----------


## joely

Im just having  look round now, may see if I can get a second hand one of ebay

----------


## thechamp

My name is Jonathon Graff with Apira Science- makers of the iGrow Hair Growth System.  Your email was forwarded to me and I'll be happy to answer what I can for you.

I'm not sure where you heard that LED is not effective for hair loss, but the most direct answer is that it's simply not true.  Certainly in the early days of Low Level Light Therapy (or "LLLT" for short) it was thought that one needed the focused intensity of laser delivery to be effective, but that was many years ago and, given about ten years of scientific evidence to the contrary, is long outdated. 

The clinically proven, optimally effective LLLT range for hair loss is 650-670nm light delivered at 3-4 Joules per cm2, and the use of both lasers and LED delivery is accepted, routine and supported by the research teams of every major clinical study over the last decade.  It's also recognized by, among others:  the American Academy of Dermatology, the Intl. Society of Hair Restoration Surgeons, the American Society for Lasers in Medicine &  Surgery, the Wellman Center for Photomedicine, Harvard Medical School, the US Dept. of Health, the USFDA and the Canadian Ministry of Health.

The iGrow itself uses a combination of 21 lasers and 30 clinical-grade LED at 655nm . Given that the iGrow's award-winning clinical trials showed the highest re-growth of any FDA-cleared hair loss treatment, a better question than why the iGrow uses LED is why others don't.

I hope this has been helpful.  Since what I can say in a few minutes can take a half hour to type into a coherent email, please feel free to give me a call if I can be of further assistance or answer any questions for you. Below is my contact information and the office number rings directly to my desk. 

Thank you,

Jonathon Graff
Director of Sales
Apira Science Inc.
2601 Main Street, Suite 530
Irvine, CA 92614 U.S.A.
+949.732.1163 office 
+949 258.5376 fax
www.iGrowlaser.com


Apira Science, Inc.
A Global Leader in Aesthetic Light-Based Therapies
Makers of the iGrow Hair Growth System

----------


## Hair Bear

I just wanted to tune in and inform everyone that my igrow helmet arrived today.
I was a bit concerned about the power adapter but it is not a concern as it is a multi plug which can be has adapters to conform to a large range of countries so even if I wanted to take this overseas (unlikely) I could use it at no inconvenience.
I was a bit surprised at the 30pin ipod connection to the controller.

The headphones have that rubbish paper thin pleather earphones so I expect them to fall apart after continuous use as with every pleather earphones I have ever had.  :Frown: 

Have not tested it yet but will look forward to adding this to my treatment.

I am still not falling for the hype and will wait and see what becomes of this.

I remember reading somewhere someone asking about the placement of the little suction caps, I believe someone asked if they had a laser underneath as the placement was strange I can now confirm that they do not have a laser directly beneath them however I do not feel it will affect the overall results too greatly be they positive or negative.

----------


## doke

As many may know i am in uk and bought my igrow on ebay uk for £250 which is good for a brand new helmet and lucky.
But as im in my 50s i wish they had this when i was in my late 20s and it may have saved my hair,anyway my hairloss has ceased using the helmet and i no longer use minoxidil or at this time dutasteride.
I seemed to have worse hairloss using the drugs which is strange i am using biotin and horsetail which is silica daily and glucosamine powder but i have onlt just started that i am using ru pre mixed from anagen but only just restarted that and not using every day only about two to there times a week.
Also the igrow company sent me a new plug from usa and did not charge me so its a good aftersales company even though i did not pay much for it.
Is it a miracle no but it does stop hairloss and thicken up existing hair and make it grow faster and i am going to keep on using as its so relaxing to use.

----------


## doke

I forgot to add i have bought a product not a drug and waiting for delivery its a topical that contains adenogen and other ingredience to enhance the igrow and will report if it helps me more.
I still have over 3 months of trx2 to use but i really want to hold on restarting that as for one its pricey and also i want to give what im using more time to work.
I am tempted to start scalpure clay again but i make my own with benonite clay and acv with tea tree oil.

----------


## hairchaser

I've had experience with LLLT for a long time... and I know for a fact that your results have nothing to do with the igrow with your hair at that length. 

I bought the igrow a long time ago, before I got educated!

I now use a vlasyproject 54 laser unit. It's the most affordable thing i could find for the number of diodes it has. of course it is silly to think that laser works by itself. I use it in conjunction with 5% minoxidil topically twice a day(whatever brand suites u)
btw most effective when you use LLLT with the minoxidil on your scalp.

you also have to get your DHT blocking right!

i take resveramix tablets twice a day (resveratrol antioxidant)
saw palmetto 500mg twice a day
nettle is also really good!

hope this helps...remember, don't just use 1 treatment at a time because different treatments attack hair loss from completely different angles that are not in conflict with one another!

----------


## thechamp

> I've had experience with LLLT for a long time... and I know for a fact that your results have nothing to do with the igrow with your hair at that length. 
> 
> I bought the igrow a long time ago, before I got educated!
> 
> I now use a vlasyproject 54 laser unit. It's the most affordable thing i could find for the number of diodes it has. of course it is silly to think that laser works by itself. I use it in conjunction with 5% minoxidil topically twice a day(whatever brand suites u)
> btw most effective when you use LLLT with the minoxidil on your scalp.
> 
> you also have to get your DHT blocking right!
> 
> ...


 How long did you use the igrow before you got educated I think a lot of people think more diodes the better, but I think what makes igrow effective is the led lasers did you actually use the igrow, or just thought because everyone-says more diodes better ?

----------


## mpbsucks

> As many may know i am in uk and bought my igrow on ebay uk for £250 which is good for a brand new helmet and lucky.
> But as im in my 50s i wish they had this when i was in my late 20s and it may have saved my hair,anyway my hairloss has ceased using the helmet and i no longer use minoxidil or at this time dutasteride.
> I seemed to have worse hairloss using the drugs which is strange i am using biotin and horsetail which is silica daily and glucosamine powder but i have onlt just started that i am using ru pre mixed from anagen but only just restarted that and not using every day only about two to there times a week.
> Also the igrow company sent me a new plug from usa and did not charge me so its a good aftersales company even though i did not pay much for it.
> Is it a miracle no but it does stop hairloss and thicken up existing hair and make it grow faster and i am going to keep on using as its so relaxing to use.


 Do you have to have a buzz cut to use this thing, can you have mid length hair and it still be effective?

----------


## Hair Bear

How often do people use their igrow helmet once every day or once every second day?

----------


## thechamp

> How often do people use their igrow helmet once every day or once every second day?


 4 times a week good results people knocking it anoy me I feel bad it makes me not want to post before and after pics because every one thinks it doesn't work

----------


## thechamp

Ok this is before I started igrow

----------


## thechamp

And this is today look how much fuller and thicker darker my hair looks after reasearching lllt I believe igrow works because it has 30 led lasers no other lllt uses led, everyone says more diodes the better but I think igrow got it right with led :Smile:  use be the judge

----------


## the_dude78

> Ok this is before I started igrow


 


> And this is today look how much fuller and thicker darker my hair looks after reasearching lllt I believe igrow works because it has 30 led lasers no other lllt uses led, everyone says more diodes the better but I think igrow got it right with led use be the judge


 Is this some kind of joke? Sarcasm? 

I see absolutely no difference, just two pictures of a guy with a full head of hair. The only difference is that the first picture is slightly more blurry.

----------


## thechamp

> Is this some kind of joke? Sarcasm? 
> 
> I see absolutely no difference, just two pictures of a guy with a full head of hair. The only difference is that the first picture is slightly more blurry.


 Get ****ed you dick head this is a hair loss forum

----------


## the_dude78

> Get ****ed you dick head this is a hair loss forum


 It seems I have offended you, and I apologize for that. But as you said, this is a hair loss forum and these photos, come on, they show nothing.

As a diffuse thinner, I know that hair loss can be difficult to see in a picture, but still.. how can anyone judge anything from those photos? The way the photos are taken just doesn't show us anything to back this product up.


But I'm glad that you are happy with the results, and you seem to be, and that's all that matters.

----------


## Notcoolanymore

Yeah champ I believe you, but if you want to convince others you are going to have to get some better pics up.  I use my cheap phone to take pics of my head and sometimes I have to take 20+ pics just to get a good one.

----------


## thechamp

I'll go threw my iPhone see what I got I got a few more pics I'll post some tommrow

----------


## joely

My igrow has arrived this morning, didn't have chance to look at it properly before leaving for work! But i have a few hours when i get in, will keep you all updated how i get on over the coming months! Just so you are aware in using the igrow to try and complement my ht from 6 weeks ago, was always my intention to try either lllt or minox after the ht to try and improve results! Will keep you all informed

----------


## thechamp

Ok this is my before igrow now I know I am early stages of hair loss I just think igrow is a great addition too the big 3 since I can't take fin I'm only on niz and minoxdill , and the results are from the igrow.

----------


## thechamp

This is my hair now :Smile:

----------


## Hair Bear

I also have the igrow helmet and can take pictures of the device for anyone interested or try to answer and questions.
I have always been pretty strict about using more than one treatment at a time in that it may skew my results therefore I'll have to assess my hair and scalp with the knowledge that it could either be minox (Foligain foam) or the igrow helmet.

I have jumped the gun and began using the igrow helmet and thus far my observations are limited as it is far too early to say, I can however say that my hair has become less brittle and more manageable but having said that I do seem to be experiencing a shed at the moment which as you can expect is distressing to see particularly when you have long hair as they are easily noticeable and tend to stick to you like a spiders web  :Big Grin:  (I may joke but it is sad)

In regards to the champ's and his picture I have to agree with Notcoolanymore, perhaps better pictures would be ideal, I suspect the flash in the first picture is too harsh, try to take some pictures in the same position and in the same lighting conditions or as near to the other as possible.
I should actually take a picture of myself now and review it next month as I failed to take one prior  :Frown:  but I guess if there are any results to be seen they will be evident enough.

----------


## the_dude78

> Ok this is my before igrow now I know I am early stages of hair loss I just think igrow is a great addition too the big 3 since I can't take fin I'm only on niz and minoxdill , and the results are from the igrow.


 It's really hard for me to see if it is the light reflecting or the scalp I can see through the hair - maybe a bit of both. But yes, it does look like the scalp is a bit more visible in the first picture. I hope to see more pictures from other users.

----------


## joely

I used my igrow today for the first time, my question is how often should i use it for maximum efficacy? Every other day or three times a week?

----------


## thechamp

4 times a week do 25 min sessions

----------


## Notcoolanymore

If your hair is the same length, then I would say you are getting some pretty good results.  Can see less scalp on the second pic.

----------


## Hair Bear

> I used my igrow today for the first time, my question is how often should i use it for maximum efficacy? Every other day or three times a week?


 I believe the manual suggests every other day, once desirable result are achieved you can down regulate it to less.
I am currently working under that premise and have applied setting three on the controller which happens to be the highest setting as my hair loss pattern sadly more closely reflects that image.

----------


## joely

> I believe the manual suggests every other day, once desirable result are achieved you can down regulate it to less.
> I am currently working under that premise and have applied setting three on the controller which happens to be the highest setting as my hair loss pattern sadly more closely reflects that image.


 Me to. Unfortunately l,

Thanks for the advice team

----------


## AfterHair

igrow helmet, as in laser treatment?

----------


## Hair Bear

Yes that is correct. It is a laser/led treatment.

----------


## hdude46

> I just wanted to point out if you google over macho grande he makes the laser messiah and says his product is far superior to the igrow, but he has no before and after pics I can see I'm wondering if the igrow has gotten results from the led lights in it ?


 Anyone have experience with this guy or his products?

----------


## Jcm800

> Anyone have experience with this guy or his products?


 Err,  you mean thechamp?!

----------


## hdude46

> Err,  you mean thechamp?!


 Are they the same guy?

----------


## Jcm800

> Are they the same guy?


 Nah thechamp has been around here for years..

----------


## UK_

> guys dont delude yourselves, *yes hairlaser adds to result but only if on minox or AA*
> 
> thechamp would 100% not get these results if minox wasnt in the regimen.
> 
> Solo laser will not do anything


 That doesnt make any sense.

----------


## thechamp

User jazz is reporting results in his regime and igrow is part of his regime, I want igrow to make a more powerful version of the igrow, it's the led lasers getting the results I'm so certain if we could get a igrow helmet with double the led lasers and normal lasers we could see results with higher norwoods!

----------


## doke

Omg web site tells you how to make a laser helmet but only more lasers than the igrow and no led, as many think its the lasers that do the work.
More lasers in the theradome which may be better than the igrow even though i as you know have an igrow.
I think i would try the tharadome if at the right price also check out lazerfish web site.

----------


## thechamp

> Omg web site tells you how to make a laser helmet but only more lasers than the igrow and no led, as many think its the lasers that do the work.
> More lasers in the theradome which may be better than the igrow even though i as you know have an igrow.
> I think i would try the tharadome if at the right price also check out lazerfish web site.


 My whole point is the igrow got it right clinical led lasers is the key to lllt so I higher powered igrow would blow all the comp away probly already does

----------


## doke

Hi Champ LEDS are not lasers the lasers we need are cold fire lasers for hairloss and really more lasers and no leds.

----------


## Jazz1

No no no, your getting my results mixed up! I started igrow in January I saw no results in regrowth at all I used it every other day. When I added Dactokart cream like Saba gel and Promox spray DMi alongside derma roller in April  that's when hairs started growing. You can't be claiming igrow souly grows hairs etc, my understanding your using minoxidil that's more powerful than the igrow, maybe the igrow helps alongside minoxidil but I bet you and I dare you to stop minoxidil see if the igrow maintains your hair.........

----------


## thechamp

> No no no, your getting my results mixed up! I started igrow in January I saw no results in regrowth at all I used it every other day. When I added Dactokart cream like Saba gel and Promox spray DMi alongside derma roller in April  that's when hairs started growing. You can't be claiming igrow souly grows hairs etc, my understanding your using minoxidil that's more powerful than the igrow, maybe the igrow helps alongside minoxidil but I bet you and I dare you to stop minoxidil see if the igrow maintains your hair.........


 Mate it takes 4 to 6 months for igrow to show results I know you need minoxdil but don't underestimate the igrow

----------


## Jcm800

thechamp use igrow alone,  with nothing.. Then come and tell us how good it is?

----------


## thechamp

> thechamp use igrow alone,  with nothing.. Then come and tell us how good it is?


 Man I know you don't use it alone but with minoxdil or fin it's awsome what other treatment options do we have jc

----------


## Jcm800

Just think your pinning your hopes on this thing,  and in fact it's the minox or fin working..

----------


## thechamp

Well my twin brother is using it and he's hair is much better he was having no results with fin and minoxdil

----------


## Jcm800

. You also said trx2 was stopping his hair from going grey didn't you?! 

And that's the biggest scam currently running..

----------


## thechamp

Everyone believe what they want I don't care

----------


## thechamp

All I'm saying is igrow is a good product and I honestly think the LEDs re the key, no other laser uses them that the reason people are getting results

----------


## Jcm800

Well if I see believable proof,, I may investigate further..

----------


## thechamp

Here is igrow before and after http://diyhairrestoration.com/my-8-m...growth-device/

----------


## Jazz1

Look iv used Promox lotion for a year great results, I added Promox spray ontop, plus Dactokart was recommended by a friend who had AA and all his hair started growing back so my opinion stands and I know 100% it's the cream and Promox spray working on the regrowth not the igrow. I don't think our statements are fair on people on this forum giving them false hopes a laser helmet will cure and stop AGA, I'm sorry but nothing beat the big 3, lasers are just the icing on the cake don't expect regrowth not even maintaining unless your saving your hair from the big 3. How many trials have they done on people who have severe MPB alone on the igrow, come on man it's like saying the igrow can grow every NW7 bald scalp....never. I'm saying this again it's not the igrow that has worked on me it's the cream and Promox.

----------


## Jazz1

From the looks of it you don't have sever MPB, your using minoxidil so you can not claim the igrow is working on you..... As I got thickening and regrowth from minoxidil. If you really believe and want to Proove yourself wrong I dare you to stop minoxdidol, il bet you the igrow will do nothing saving your growth hairs. I'm not having a dig at you as you seem like a great guy and you have good results but you need stop sounding like the igrow is a cure, people here have wasted enough time, false hopes and plenty money etc it's not fair. 

So let's sum things up, if you guys have halted hairloss from the big 3 then yes laser helmets may help to some extent just dont expect the following:

Lasers alone won't save your hair

Laser maintain hair 

Lasers stimulate vellus hairs

Lasers are not the cure

Lasers are just an addition the super treatments like fine, minoxidil, ketoconozole.

----------


## thechamp

Michael,

Well, Ive found a little time so I have the short AND the longer answer for you. I actually gave a presentation on this very subject at a medical convention a few weeks ago, so fortunately I already have some of it handy.  I know that anything I say might be seen as a little biased, but Ill try to limit most of it to general information on the technology that you may find useful. 

The short answer is that what this Overmachogrande is saying about both the use of LED and power levels for this technology is simply not true, though Im sure its no surprise that someone selling a different machine recommends against the iGrow. I come across the more lasers means better results argument from time to time, and its usually a good indication that the person speaking is not particularly educated on the underlying technology, especially when the supporting evidence they give seems to consist mainly of pointing out that everyone knows it.  Personally, I prefer to think hes probably just misinformed rather than deliberately spreading misinformation. 

Heres the longer, more in-depth answer:

Low Level Light Therapy (or LLLT for short) has been used by medical doctors for years to treat not only hair loss but a variety of conditions such as acne, hyperpigmentation, wound healing, inflammation and minor pain management.  Just as drugs have appropriate dosages, there is an optimal wavelength and power for each condition which yields the best results.  The optimally effective LLLT range for treating hair loss is 650-670nm wavelength delivered at 3-4 Joules per cm2 using non-thermal laser diodes, high-output LED, or a combination of the two.  The effects are cumulative, and require consistent treatment over time but there is no evidence that increasing the power ratio, regardless of number of diodes used, increases results- in fact, studies indicate that there can be a sharp drop-off in efficacy with overstimulation of the cells.

Its true that in the early days LLLT it was thought that one needed the focused intensity of laser delivery to be effective, but that was many years ago and, given about ten years of scientific evidence to the contrary, is long outdated and all clinical LLLT treatments for skin disorders used in dermatology practices contain only LED. The use of both lasers and LED delivery is accepted, routine and supported by the research teams of every major clinical study over the last decade.  Specific to treating hair loss, its also recognized by, among others:  the American Academy of Dermatology, the Intl. Society of Hair Restoration Surgeons, the American Society for Lasers in Medicine &  Surgery, the Wellman Center for Photomedicine, Harvard Medical School, the US Dept. of Health, the USFDA and the Canadian Ministry of Health.

The iGrow itself uses a combination of 21 lasers and 30 clinical-grade LED at 655nm wavelength to produce 4 joules per cm2. Given the above and the fact that the iGrow's award-winning clinical trials showed the highest regrowth of any FDA-cleared hair loss treatment, a better question than why the iGrow uses LEDs is why doesn't everyone?

There is no shortage of LLLT devices on the market of varying quality and cost. When looking for a product or treatment device, its very easy to get lost wading through such things as specifications, number of lasers, power, etc., and Ive found its easier to just boil it all down to whats important. Essentially, results for LLLT do not depend on the number of diodes used, whether they are laser or LED or many other distractions often raised. Instead, all the recent scientific data on light therapy for hair loss shows that the best results rely on three things:

1)      Using  the right wavelength (650-670nm),
2)      at the optimal power output (3-4 joules per cm2), and finally
3)      consistent treatment over time.

Taken together, this means it really just comes down to finding a device that has #1 & #2, and doing #3 for long enough to see results. (Naturally purchasing a well-made device from a company which stands behind it for warrantees, customer service, etc. isnt a bad idea either.)

This isnt to say that the device Mr. Overmachogrande sells wont work- it might work very well for all I know but I simply dont have much information about it other than its got a lot of lasers.  Id certainly be happy to compare the iGrows clinical trial results and medical efficacy clearances against his if he would care to provide them for review.

In conclusion (it does seem like a speech, doesnt it?), Apira Science is not new to the industry, having produced the worlds most widely used clinical hair laser (the Revage670) for over 12 years. We designed the iGrow as a convenient way to provide LLLT at home by combining the most effective wavelength at the optimal power delivery in an easy-to-use package, then subjected it to clinical trials which showed the best results of any device or treatment in the industry. These studies were double blind, placebo-controlled, vetted, reviewed and cleared by the USFDA and Health Canada then published in peer-reviewed medical journals.  The iGrow also comes with a six-month Satisfaction Guarantee to allow someone to give it a fair trial to evaluate whether this type of treatment is effective for them.

I hope this covers what you needed. Below is my contact info and the office number rings directly to my desk.  Please give me a call if I can be of further assistance.

Sincerely,

Jonathon Graff


Director of Sales
Apira Science I

----------


## akai

Is there any more surefire way of making money than creating some scam product that claims to cure or treat hair loss? Even with all the information out there people continue to buy overpriced supplements, shampoos, devices, etc. that do nothing at all to address hair loss. 

This entire thread is an experiment in the power of cognitive dissonance. I understand the desperation associated with hair loss, but some of you take a pragmatic look at this issue and not be so eager to open your wallet.

----------


## thechamp

Michael,

Well, Ive found a little time so I have the short AND the longer answer for you. I actually gave a presentation on this very subject at a medical convention a few weeks ago, so fortunately I already have some of it handy.  I know that anything I say might be seen as a little biased, but Ill try to limit most of it to general information on the technology that you may find useful. 

The short answer is that what this Overmachogrande is saying about both the use of LED and power levels for this technology is simply not true, though Im sure its no surprise that someone selling a different machine recommends against the iGrow. I come across the more lasers means better results argument from time to time, and its usually a good indication that the person speaking is not particularly educated on the underlying technology, especially when the supporting evidence they give seems to consist mainly of pointing out that everyone knows it.  Personally, I prefer to think hes probably just misinformed rather than deliberately spreading misinformation. 

Heres the longer, more in-depth answer:

Low Level Light Therapy (or LLLT for short) has been used by medical doctors for years to treat not only hair loss but a variety of conditions such as acne, hyperpigmentation, wound healing, inflammation and minor pain management.  Just as drugs have appropriate dosages, there is an optimal wavelength and power for each condition which yields the best results.  The optimally effective LLLT range for treating hair loss is 650-670nm wavelength delivered at 3-4 Joules per cm2 using non-thermal laser diodes, high-output LED, or a combination of the two.  The effects are cumulative, and require consistent treatment over time but there is no evidence that increasing the power ratio, regardless of number of diodes used, increases results- in fact, studies indicate that there can be a sharp drop-off in efficacy with overstimulation of the cells.

Its true that in the early days LLLT it was thought that one needed the focused intensity of laser delivery to be effective, but that was many years ago and, given about ten years of scientific evidence to the contrary, is long outdated and all clinical LLLT treatments for skin disorders used in dermatology practices contain only LED. The use of both lasers and LED delivery is accepted, routine and supported by the research teams of every major clinical study over the last decade.  Specific to treating hair loss, its also recognized by, among others:  the American Academy of Dermatology, the Intl. Society of Hair Restoration Surgeons, the American Society for Lasers in Medicine &  Surgery, the Wellman Center for Photomedicine, Harvard Medical School, the US Dept. of Health, the USFDA and the Canadian Ministry of Health.

The iGrow itself uses a combination of 21 lasers and 30 clinical-grade LED at 655nm wavelength to produce 4 joules per cm2. Given the above and the fact that the iGrow's award-winning clinical trials showed the highest regrowth of any FDA-cleared hair loss treatment, a better question than why the iGrow uses LEDs is why doesn't everyone?

There is no shortage of LLLT devices on the market of varying quality and cost. When looking for a product or treatment device, its very easy to get lost wading through such things as specifications, number of lasers, power, etc., and Ive found its easier to just boil it all down to whats important. Essentially, results for LLLT do not depend on the number of diodes used, whether they are laser or LED or many other distractions often raised. Instead, all the recent scientific data on light therapy for hair loss shows that the best results rely on three things:

1)      Using  the right wavelength (650-670nm),
2)      at the optimal power output (3-4 joules per cm2), and finally
3)      consistent treatment over time.

Taken together, this means it really just comes down to finding a device that has #1 & #2, and doing #3 for long enough to see results. (Naturally purchasing a well-made device from a company which stands behind it for warrantees, customer service, etc. isnt a bad idea either.)

This isnt to say that the device Mr. Overmachogrande sells wont work- it might work very well for all I know but I simply dont have much information about it other than its got a lot of lasers.  Id certainly be happy to compare the iGrows clinical trial results and medical efficacy clearances against his if he would care to provide them for review.

In conclusion (it does seem like a speech, doesnt it?), Apira Science is not new to the industry, having produced the worlds most widely used clinical hair laser (the Revage670) for over 12 years. We designed the iGrow as a convenient way to provide LLLT at home by combining the most effective wavelength at the optimal power delivery in an easy-to-use package, then subjected it to clinical trials which showed the best results of any device or treatment in the industry. These studies were double blind, placebo-controlled, vetted, reviewed and cleared by the USFDA and Health Canada then published in peer-reviewed medical journals.  The iGrow also comes with a six-month Satisfaction Guarantee to allow someone to give it a fair trial to evaluate whether this type of treatment is effective for them.

I hope this covers what you needed. Below is my contact info and the office number rings directly to my desk.  Please give me a call if I can be of further assistance.

Sincerely,

Jonathon Graff
Director of Sales
Apira Science I

----------


## Jcm800

Whats Promox?

----------


## Jazz1

> Whats Promox?


 Mixture of finesteride, progesterone, azelaic acid and minoxidil in topical form, best form is the DMI spray version and I also use the tretinoin lotion on temples only.

----------


## Jcm800

Thanks,  I've since seen it,  Dr Klein? It's only available from him in the States? I'm in the UK,  too expensive with shipping on top..

----------


## doke

> Look iv used Promox lotion for a year great results, I added Promox spray ontop, plus Dactokart was recommended by a friend who had AA and all his hair started growing back so my opinion stands and I know 100% it's the cream and Promox spray working on the regrowth not the igrow. I don't think our statements are fair on people on this forum giving them false hopes a laser helmet will cure and stop AGA, I'm sorry but nothing beat the big 3, lasers are just the icing on the cake don't expect regrowth not even maintaining unless your saving your hair from the big 3. How many trials have they done on people who have severe MPB alone on the igrow, come on man it's like saying the igrow can grow every NW7 bald scalp....never. I'm saying this again it's not the igrow that has worked on me it's the cream and Promox.


 Hi Jazz can you tell me the antifungal cream i still have some how do you use it? do you use it neat or mix it with something? do you use any retina a? also i have some lipogaine minox i may use it with have you tried that minox?

----------


## Jazz1

> Thanks,  I've since seen it,  Dr Klein? It's only available from him in the States? I'm in the UK,  too expensive with shipping on top..


 If you can't afford the tretinoin version lotion try finding a tretinoin cream with 0.25% in it that should do.

----------


## Jazz1

> Hi Jazz can you tell me the antifungal cream i still have some how do you use it? do you use it neat or mix it with something? do you use any retina a? also i have some lipogaine minox i may use it with have you tried that minox?


 I hated lipogaine made my hair worse, just use regular regaine foam is good, I cant say much about the anti fungal cream alone as one I'm using has 1&#37; hydorcortisone in it. Best is use the cream I'm using and get some 0.25% tretinoin use derma roller like I said and minoxdidol. Once once you started getting regrowth you can cut them cream to once a week or maybe twice from what I read that's what Dr brown recommended for the Saba gel.

----------


## doke

> I hated lipogaine made my hair worse, just use regular regaine foam is good, I cant say much about the anti fungal cream alone as one I'm using has 1% hydorcortisone in it. Best is use the cream I'm using and get some 0.25% tretinoin use derma roller like I said and minoxdidol. Once once you started getting regrowth you can cut them cream to once a week or maybe twice from what I read that's what Dr brown recommended for the Saba gel.


 Many thanks jazz i have just found some Daktacort cream Hydrocortisone and miconazole nitrate mix,its ony a 15g tube i wonder how long that should last for do you apply it neat all over the scalp? and can i mix retina a with it or should i apply that just to shiny bald spots ie: temple and crown? and do you apply minox foam before or after the cream.

----------


## Jazz1

No need apply cream all over, just apply small spots slightly around mid points etc. I apply cream first then half hour later minoxidil, get the prescription Dactokart cream as I don't know if the over the counter is any good plus you need store it in the fridge.

----------


## doke

Many thanks jazz is your promox the 5% or higher strenght minox version?

----------


## Jazz1

> Many thanks jazz is your promox the 5% or higher strenght minox version?


 I used first the lotion 15% tretinoin only temples and I got growth, then this year when I had alopecia areata I decided to buy his kits. So now I use lotion in the morning and night before bed I use the DmI 10% spray as I didn't want to use the tretinoin spray on the whole scalp as tretinoin can be irritating so be carefull how much you use etc. But the quality of my hair has got much better, chris from hairlosshelp unsigned Promox and he tried everything the DMI version working on him his scalp filled in. It's only worth adding these is your doing good on finesteride as finesteride only removes 60 odd percent internally I guess using topical helps remove the rest.

----------


## doke

I notice there was a trial of tretinoin with minoxidil and that a 0.5% strength showed good results, so that strength maybe better to use if 0.25% is causing irritation remember guys do not apply retina a during daytime as you should not go out into sunlight best used at nights.

----------


## thechamp

> I notice there was a trial of tretinoin with minoxidil and that a 0.5% strength showed good results, so that strength maybe better to use if 0.25% is causing irritation remember guys do not apply retina a during daytime as you should not go out into sunlight best used at nights.


 Where can I buy minoxdil with tretinoin or retina a is it the same thing I know doctor Klein sells it ?

----------


## doke

hi champ i think mintop is one that has retina a in also spectral 5% minoxidil has retinal in it but it does not say what percent.
Many have gone off the market as in the late 80s and 90s there was a lot of minox with tretinoin in.
The problem is it only a once a day at night application due to not being able to go out in sunlight or even using a sunbed when you have applied tretinoin.
We need to ask spectral what percent is in there formula? another is perfect solutions minoxidil whicg has retina a in and loads of other ingredience but does not say again what percent.
Then there is Dr Lewenbergs formula which is 2% minoxidil + tretinoin 0.25% which he has a sensitive formula, which we know has to be applied 3-4 times a day for at least a year, and if you get regrowth it can then be applied less.
There again its  pricey as you need at least 3 bottles a month although he does have a discount on 10 bottles and also he has a contact scheme of 2-3 bottles a month which is a bit cheaper.
He has his followers and seems to have had some good success i did try his normal formula and it made my scalp sore so im not sure of the sensitive one.
I may have been applying it wrong as you are supposed to keep it at about 8-9inchs away from the scalp and just use it like a hair spray and not even supposed to rub it in.

----------


## thechamp

> hi champ i think mintop is one that has retina a in also spectral 5% minoxidil has retinal in it but it does not say what percent.
> Many have gone off the market as in the late 80s and 90s there was a lot of minox with tretinoin in.
> The problem is it only a once a day at night application due to not being able to go out in sunlight or even using a sunbed when you have applied tretinoin.
> We need to ask spectral what percent is in there formula? another is perfect solutions minoxidil whicg has retina a in and loads of other ingredience but does not say again what percent.
> Then there is Dr Lewenbergs formula which is 2% minoxidil + tretinoin 0.25% which he has a sensitive formula, which we know has to be applied 3-4 times a day for at least a year, and if you get regrowth it can then be applied less.
> There again its  pricey as you need at least 3 bottles a month although he does have a discount on 10 bottles and also he has a contact scheme of 2-3 bottles a month which is a bit cheaper.
> He has his followers and seems to have had some good success i did try his normal formula and it made my scalp sore so im not sure of the sensitive one.
> I may have been applying it wrong as you are supposed to keep it at about 8-9inchs away from the scalp and just use it like a hair spray and not even supposed to rub it in.


 Should I buy remox 3 perent minoxdil or 5 percebt with retina a is the 3 percebt less chance of sides ?

----------


## Jazz1

> Should I buy remox 3 perent minoxdil or 5 percebt with retina a is the 3 percebt less chance of sides ?


 I would avoid the retina version all over the scalp it could sting, use the DMI version if your buying Dr kleins spray form. If your also adding the lotion use the tretinoin lotion on the temples.

----------


## thechamp

Stay thick up date with your igrow ?

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## thechamp

How's everyone's igrow doing my hair is still looking very positive ATM no shedding , and still thick any one updates ?

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## Jazz1

I'm thinking of doing a test on my mum to see if this helmet actually is doing anything or not! She's very thin ontop and losing hair, I'm thinking of testing the igrow documenting the pictures, I'm going to ask her and see but this will be the only treatment she will be using  :Smile: .

----------


## thechamp

Jazz I'm sure igrow is contributing to your success and thickness of your hair, my hair has deferentially majorly thicken up from igrow.

----------


## cthulhu2

> My before and after 8 week igrow progress been using minoxdill five percent twice a day for 7 months added igrow two months in  positive results you be the judge.


 your hairloss is hardly noticeable, which is why I can't really tell a difference between the two. In my opinion, you don't really need minoxidil or any type of hair loss treatment because your stage of hairloss is so minor.

----------


## Jcm800

Champs hair looked the same 3-4 years ago.

----------


## Notcoolanymore

It is just really hard to judge improvement unless your match your after pictures with the before.  I am talking same hair length, lighting and angle.  I thought I noticed some improvement in thechamp's last pics, but with some hair types, styles, lengths, it is difficult.

----------


## Jcm800

I hear you,  but I've seen his pics several different times,, I never see a bald spot developing.. I've got one tho since 4 yrs ago  :Smile:

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## Jazz1

Guys I wouldn't say lasers are a scam as theres plenty scientific evidence to back them up, but hell no can a laser helmet or any other device halt or regrow hair! I reckon it might help in conjunction with other treatments, no way is it better than minxoxidol that's my verdict. I use Promox kits and that has always thickened my hair, I'm just using the laser helmet for the sake of the studies. 

Recently it's got me thinking for us forum members I'm going to do a proper study on my mum and document this, she's losing hair and thinning I'm going to get her to use this helmet without any other treatments, purely based on the helmet results, than that will tell us if these lasers actually work, what do you guys reckon shall I document it  :Smile: ?

----------


## Jazz1

> Jazz I'm sure igrow is contributing to your success and thickness of your hair, my hair has deferentially majorly thicken up from igrow.


 
There's only one way to find out, I'm going to document my mum with just the Igrow nothing else, this will Proove if lasers are bullshit or help  :Smile:

----------


## thechamp

> Guys I wouldn't say lasers are a scam as theres plenty scientific evidence to back them up, but hell no can a laser helmet or any other device halt or regrow hair! I reckon it might help in conjunction with other treatments, no way is it better than minxoxidol that's my verdict. I use Promox kits and that has always thickened my hair, I'm just using the laser helmet for the sake of the studies. 
> 
> Recently it's got me thinking for us forum members I'm going to do a proper study on my mum and document this, she's losing hair and thinning I'm going to get her to use this helmet without any other treatments, purely based on the helmet results, than that will tell us if these lasers actually work, what do you guys reckon shall I document it ?


 Why don't you stop igrow I garentee you will loose thickness

----------


## thechamp

Igrow works full stop look at these guys results he's documented it your not going to grow a full head of hair but early stage hair loss add igrow http://diyhairrestoration.com/my-8-m...growth-device/

----------


## Haircure

> Igrow works full stop look at these guys results he's documented it your not going to grow a full head of hair but early stage hair loss add igrow http://diyhairrestoration.com/my-8-m...growth-device/


  Yea did you forget to mention that the guy in the link you provided is using other treatments? Seriously man stop promoting these half baked treatments and then promising results, when first off you barely even have hairloss and yet you claim it's only because of Igrow that you achieved results, even though you are using minox. Have you maybe stopped to think that laser treatments just make you hair look fuller and not actually grow hair? You keep posting these anecdotal evidence, but there isn't any to prove its as effective as you claim, and it's sure as hell not worth the $600-1000. You can keep arguing how it's worked for you but I guarantee that once you stop minox and use ONLY Igrow, you will see that Laser treatments are not worth it (assuming you even have hairloss)

----------


## thechamp

> Yea did you forget to mention that the guy in the link you provided is using other treatments? Seriously man stop promoting these half baked treatments and then promising results, when first off you barely even have hairloss and yet you claim it's only because of Igrow that you achieved results, even though you are using minox. Have you maybe stopped to think that laser treatments just make you hair look fuller and not actually grow hair? You keep posting these anecdotal evidence, but there isn't any to prove its as effective as you claim, and it's sure as hell not worth the $600-1000. You can keep arguing how it's worked for you but I guarantee that once you stop minox and use ONLY Igrow, you will see that Laser treatments are not worth it (assuming you even have hairloss)


  Listen I'm not stopping minoxdill all I'm saying I have add great results adding igrow so why would I lie ,  igrow to minoxdill had given me thicker hair better results so stop being ignorant , igrow will provide better results with minoxdill then minoxdill it's self , also I wouldn't use igrow as a stand alone treatment , people rave about nizoral I use also but let me tell you igrow is more effective then nizoral full stop

----------


## Jazz1

> Why don't you stop igrow I garentee you will loose thickness


 Why don't you stop minoxidol lol I PROMISE you will lose ground  :Smile: .

----------


## Jazz1

Look guys after I am HONEST there's only one way to get the honest opinion on this shit, test it on my mum! She uses nothing currently and is thinning etc, Im going to start this week and document pictures, this will Proove if these lasers work on someone who is using NOTHING besides this helmet.

----------


## Jazz1

> Listen I'm not stopping minoxdill all I'm saying I have add great results adding igrow so why would I lie ,  igrow to minoxdill had given me thicker hair better results so stop being ignorant , igrow will provide better results with minoxdill then minoxdill it's self , also I wouldn't use igrow as a stand alone treatment , people rave about nizoral I use also but let me tell you igrow is more effective then nizoral full stop


 I'm glad it works, but I'm going to test it on my mum, that's the only way we will know if this shit works or not. My opinion still stands nothing beats the big 3, but we all have different views. I said this from day on I will never promote any product unless it works, I made it clear I saw nothing with the igrow but then again I use other stuff. So the only way to test this shit is on my mum as she using completely nothing  :Smile: .

----------


## Notcoolanymore

The only way to find out is to test it on your mum.

----------


## thechamp

Interesting article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-William.html

----------


## Haircure

> Interesting article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-William.html


  Uhh you do realize this is a daily mail article and not some credible source of information right? News websites like these always post articles with misleading titles and misleading information, without any real evidence. You can literally do a google search and you will find a new "hairloss cure" article every month from sites like these.

----------


## Jazz1

Guys have you lot seen that disappointing theradome thread the guys at 26 weeks or more and his hair is the same.

----------


## Haircure

> Guys have you lot seen that disappointing theradome thread the guys at 26 weeks or more and his hair is the same.


  I'm not surprised, I mean laser treatments have been around for more than a decade, and if there was any definitive proof that it was effective, everyone here would know about it, and it would be a recommended treatment along with Fin and Minox.

----------


## Jazz1

This is why Champ is wrong, I always say it 100 times nothing beats the big 3, I got more my results from Promox and Dactokart cream, Champ still thinks its the lasers when I told him I saw no results!

http://theradome.weebly.com/

----------


## thechamp

> This is why Champ is wrong, I always say it 100 times nothing beats the big 3, I got more my results from Promox and Dactokart cream, Champ still thinks its the lasers when I told him I saw no results!
> 
> http://theradome.weebly.com/


 Ok jazz if your so certain that igrow is doing nothing why do you still use it ?

----------


## thechamp

Jazz just throw your igrow in the bin I'll continue to use it with minoxdill

----------


## Jazz1

> Ok jazz if your so certain that igrow is doing nothing why do you still use it ?


 
The reason is because I payed 800 Uk pounds for this thing, unless you willing to pay me 600 il sell it  :Smile: ?

----------


## Jazz1

> Jazz just throw your igrow in the bin I'll continue to use it with minoxdill


 You don't need minoxidol, why! Just stick with the igrow  :Smile: .

----------


## thechamp

> You don't need minoxidol, why! Just stick with the igrow .


 Stop using the igrow jazz for about 6 to 8 weeks see what happens honestly stop using igrow and see if your hair stays thick

----------


## Jazz1

> Stop using the igrow jazz for about 6 to 8 weeks see what happens honestly stop using igrow and see if your hair stays thick


 I know it will stay thick because I use Promox  :Smile: , ok I'm willing to stop it if you stop minoxidol? I'm telling you now my thickness is from Promox and Dactokart cream not igrow.

----------


## thechamp

> I know it will stay thick because I use Promox , ok I'm willing to stop it if you stop minoxidol? I'm telling you now my thickness is from Promox and Dactokart cream not igrow.


 I'm not stopping minoxdill I'm going to buy 10 percent minoxdill with saw plamento it's a bit expensive but azlic acid doesn't agree with me ,propecia doensnt agree with me so I want to add 10 percent minoxdill with saw plamento

----------


## Jazz1

> I'm not stopping minoxdill I'm going to buy 10 percent minoxdill with saw plamento it's a bit expensive but azlic acid doesn't agree with me ,propecia doensnt agree with me so I want to add 10 percent minoxdill with saw plamento


 I would avoid saw palmetto that shit made me horny and lose more hair, Dr Klein prescribes 10% or alternatively so does the belgravia center in the uk  :Smile: .

----------


## thechamp

> I would avoid saw palmetto that shit made me horny and lose more hair, Dr Klein prescribes 10% or alternatively so does the belgravia center in the uk .


  Dr kliens website is down you can't even get his products up in the site

----------


## doke

Hi champ i noticed that i wonder has the fda closed it down?

----------


## Jazz1

No they still open I needed more products, since posting my thread there seems to be a high demand for Dr kleins products. They run out on ingredients and sorting that out hence why they removed things from the site to stop orders until they sort out ingredients and phone lines etc. Dr lee was shut down because he never obtained FDA approval, the reason why others remain open like Klein, proctor etc is because they filed approval with the FDA.

----------


## Bocaj

Jazz...any evidence for that- that Klein and Proctor filed approval with the FDA?

----------


## doke

Many thanks for finding out jazz although i get my minox+medpro in uk which is much cheaper.

----------


## Jazz1

I'm only going by what they say, the reason Lee was shut because he never filed for approval. I'm also from London the belgravia clinic do the same mixtures but expensive. Dr Klein works out cheaper as I buy bulk for the whole year and never use like he suggests so lasts me ages  :Smile: .

----------


## Bocaj

Jazz..they can say all they want- Proctor makes up all kinds of crap. Remember those 2 ads from the 80's- the 3 and then 4 year "clinical study" etc? And that was just the beginning. 

We don't even know what all is in something like Proxiphen- I doubt the FDA knows about that. Maybe he's not a big enough fish for them to worry about. He's so in the past that his website talks about taking Polaroid pics for cripes sake.

----------


## thechamp

> I'm only going by what they say, the reason Lee was shut because he never filed for approval. I'm also from London the belgravia clinic do the same mixtures but expensive. Dr Klein works out cheaper as I buy bulk for the whole year and never use like he suggests so lasts me ages .


 Yeh got a quote from belgravia so expensive , I'll wait until dr Klein reopens jazz can you buy 10 percent minoxdill from doctor Klein without azelic acid?,have you herd of a product called minoxytop it's 10 percent some guy on YouTube had great results with it.

----------


## Jazz1

> Yeh got a quote from belgravia so expensive , I'll wait until dr Klein reopens jazz can you buy 10 percent minoxdill from doctor Klein without azelic acid?,have you herd of a product called minoxytop it's 10 percent some guy on YouTube had great results with it.


 I'm sure he can as I had Promox spray formulated without tretinoin, and went for DMI instead.

----------


## Jazz1

> Jazz..they can say all they want- Proctor makes up all kinds of crap. Remember those 2 ads from the 80's- the 3 and then 4 year "clinical study" etc? And that was just the beginning. 
> 
> We don't even know what all is in something like Proxiphen- I doubt the FDA knows about that. Maybe he's not a big enough fish for them to worry about. He's so in the past that his website talks about taking Polaroid pics for cripes sake.


 I didn't see a diffence in his stuff I bought 6 vials of his prescription stuff, used them for 6 months had bad rash come up. When I finally decided to drop it, I saw no loss neither did I gain anything from Dr proctors stuff. Only persons stuff I saw results and I still use is Dr Klein.

----------


## Bocaj

Jazz..I noticed you-know-who making up crap(as well) again instead of just answering questions etc. I'm not at that Theradome weebly site..but am not surprised even Theradome supporters and those just neutral on it have had enough of him. 

BTW..maybe this site- the admin(s) could do a Q&A with Dr. Proctor(I'm being serious). No one has the answers and yet they say to just email and/or call him. They claim he's so easy to get answers from and yet years go by and even they themselves cannot just provide them. Plenty of us have contacted him and got nothing- in the past and most recently..so the excuse that we're just not willing to ask him ourselves is childish nonsense.

----------


## Jazz1

> Jazz..I noticed you-know-who making up crap(as well) again instead of just answering questions etc. I'm not at that Theradome weebly site..but am not surprised even Theradome supporters and those just neutral on it have had enough of him. 
> 
> BTW..maybe this site- the admin(s) could do a Q&A with Dr. Proctor(I'm being serious). No one has the answers and yet they say to just email and/or call him. They claim he's so easy to get answers from and yet years go by and even they themselves cannot just provide them. Plenty of us have contacted him and got nothing- in the past and most recently..so the excuse that we're just not willing to ask him ourselves is childish nonsense.


 I mean I'm straight up and honest, I tried everything out there I have proof and I document everything, check my thread. I know what's works and what does not work etc, his treatments did nothing for me, I didn't gain any hairs nor did I lose any hairs when I stopped. The only downside was the skin rash, he did reply to my emails but again he would not disclose any information or products inside his Vials. 

But remember its not to say it didn't work on me it won't work on others, it's just like finesteride etc. I know he adds spiro so that is proven to work on hairloss all depends how aggressive MPB strikes. Also lasers is another scenario, they won't work alone in MPB, yet they might help alongside other treatments, although I'm convinced nothing beats the big 3 first, then the extras like topicals and lasers are the icing on the cake.

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## Ricons

Great thread thanks

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## Blushark

if you sign up with bedbathandbeyond.com you'll get 20% off coupons by email regularly (almost immediately if not a couple of days after sign-up).  They sell igrow on their online website, so you can then apply this 20% to your purchase of an igrow and it will cost you *$556* (before taxes) with the discount applied.

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## mariaabril

> if you sign up with bedbathandbeyond.com you'll get 20% off coupons by email regularly (almost immediately if not a couple of days after sign-up).  They sell igrow on their online website, so you can then apply this 20% to your purchase of an igrow and it will cost you *$556* (before taxes) with the discount applied.


 what do you want to say here?

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## mariaabril

> if you sign up with bedbathandbeyond.com you'll get 20% off coupons by email regularly (almost immediately if not a couple of days after sign-up).  They sell igrow on their online website, so you can then apply this 20% to your purchase of an igrow and it will cost you *$556* (before taxes) with the discount applied.


 what do you want to say here? this thread is about hair treatment.

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## Blushark

It was previously noted in this thread how expensive the helmet was, so I was trying to be helpful to anyone interested in getting a better deal on it. I have not benefit from it, I was just passing on how I got mine at a discount, and so could others.

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