# Men's Hair Loss > Men's Hair Loss: Start Your Own Topic >  Temple points are crucial

## 25 going on 65

It seems to me as if most hair restoration surgery ignores temple points or treats them like luxuries instead of necessities. This is wrong. Look at good cases of temple point restoration....the difference in how the face is framed is HUGE

I have reached a point where aggressive hairline restoration w/o temple work depresses me. The lost opportunity is just crazy.....obviously the patient still looks much better,  but the addition of youthful temples would add major points.

Do temple points take a lot of grafts to restore or something? Why do they get ignored this often?

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## UK_

Temple points are a luxury - you're damn right though, temple points are incredibly important - surgeons will only be able to restore temple points if they can get hold of enough grafts.

Nigam+doubling FTW.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> It seems to me as if most hair restoration surgery ignores temple points or treats them like luxuries instead of necessities. This is wrong. Look at good cases of temple point restoration....the difference in how the face is framed is HUGE
> 
> I have reached a point where aggressive hairline restoration w/o temple work depresses me. The lost opportunity is just crazy.....obviously the patient still looks much better,  but the addition of youthful temples would add major points.
> 
> Do temple points take a lot of grafts to restore or something? Why do they get ignored this often?


 Totally agree.

Without good temple points, your forehead basically ends up looking wider.

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## PatientlyWaiting

I definitely made this a point to the HT doctor I want to get an HT with next year. He said I will need 200 grafts on each. I tried to picture myself with a decent hairline and my current faded temples, and it just doesn't look good. Maybe it's okay on older men, but I don't think it looks natural on a younger guy.

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## Dan26

Agree big time. Funny cause I see the odd bald guy who for whatever reason still has very strong temples, even that makes for a slightly better look with shaved stubble head.

I know many, especially surgeons would disagree, but if you do FUE, i dont see whats wrong with giving someone solid temples even if they end up with further loss and have to shave their head. Shaved to a 1 with something to frame your face (could also consruct decent hairline), but a lot of crown loss, is better than shaved to a 1 without that IMO. 

My decimated right temple F's up my whole facial symmetry. I find I have two options that somewhat help. Have the hair at a decent length to try and cover it, or go zero-1 on the sides and back (crew cut, fade, etc); i think you need decently 'strong' facial features for this though.

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## capitan

I wouldnt walk away from an FUE without temple points.

Thank God I still have mine though, probably one of the main reasons I can still look at my face in the mirror.

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## UK_

> I wouldnt walk away from an FUE without temple points.
> 
> Thank God I still have mine though, probably one of the main reasons I can still look at my face in the mirror.


 Jesus God help us.

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## Tracy C

> It seems to me as if most hair restoration surgery ignores temple points or treats them like luxuries instead of necessities. This is wrong.


 Actually, it is not wrong.  It is completely normal for males who are not balding to lose their temple hair.  Whether you like it or not, or accept it or not, that is the honest truth about it.  That is the reason why hair restoration doctors typically will not restore the temples for a male unless he is transgendered.






> Do temple points take a lot of grafts to restore or something? Why do they get ignored this often?


 It is because it does not look natural for males to retain a youthful hairline.  It's as simple as that.  However, if a male patient is trangendered the doctor will fill in the temples.

If you would take the time to interview dozens of reputable hair restoration doctors about it, they will give you the exact same answer I just gave you.  So don't beat me up for telling you the truth about it.  I did not write the guidelines, I'm just telling you what they are.

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## Tracy C

> I wouldnt walk away from an FUE without temple points.


 Then make sure to go to your appointment with the hair restoration doctor in drag.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Actually, it is not wrong.  It is completely normal for males who are not balding to lose their temple hair.  Whether you like it or not, or accept it or not, that is the honest truth about it.  That is the reason why hair restoration doctors typically will not restore the temples for a male unless he is transgendered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is because it does not look natural for males to retain a youthful hairline.  It's as simple as that.  However, if a male patient is trangendered the doctor will fill in the temples.
> 
> If you would take the time to interview dozens of reputable hair restoration doctors about it, they will give you the exact same answer I just gave you.  So don't beat me up for telling you the truth about it.  I did not write the guidelines, I'm just telling you what they are.


  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Most non balding people have temple points

case in point:





When a man balds, those triangle things disappear, making the forehead wider. Might not sound like a big deal, but when you are having photos of your profile taken, IT IS a big deal.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Then make sure to go to your appointment with the hair restoration doctor in drag.


 Can you stop being obnoxious towards everyone on the forum.

You have serious depression/anger issues, I bet you are unhappy in your life so vent it on here.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Most non balding people have temple points
> 
> case in point:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When a man balds, those triangle things disappear, making the forehead wider. Might not sound like a big deal, but when you are having photos of your profile taken, IT IS a big deal.


 Balding man

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## Tracy C

> Can you stop being obnoxious towards everyone on the forum.


 If you honestly think telling the truth is obnoxious you do not posses the mental capacity to deal with reality.

I did not write the guidelines.  Barking at me is NOT going to change them.  I am just telling you what they are.  So if you want your temples filled in, you need to convince your hair restoration surgeon that you are transgendered.  A good way to do that is to girl it up for your appointment with your hair restoration doctor.  If you want your temples filled in bad enough, you will do it.






> You have serious depression/anger issues, I bet you are unhappy in your life so vent it on here.


 On the contrary it is you who has the problem not me.  Stop this foolish nonsense.  You will never get better so long as you insist on being so wrong headed.

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## 25 going on 65

Ok this thread does not need to turn into an argument.....I can see it coming already

To answer your point Tracy. I think we are looking at 2 different areas of hair. I was referring not to the hairline corners but to the points of the temples themselves, & below (down to the sideburn area)
See the guy yeahyeahyeah posted w/ the strong temple points....even if his hairline corners backed up to give him a more angular/mature look to his forehead, as long as his temple points stayed intact, he would still have a very good facial frame

Then look at the 2nd guy....an aggressive HT to restore his hairline would help but, if his temples stayed untouched, his facial frame would still be lacking. The line from his sideburn to his hairline corner is almost vertical....this is what I am referring to. This makes a major difference in appearance

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Ok this thread does not need to turn into an argument.....I can see it coming already
> 
> To answer your point Tracy. I think we are looking at 2 different areas of hair. I was referring not to the hairline corners but to the points of the temples themselves, & below (down to the sideburn area)
> See the guy yeahyeahyeah posted w/ the strong temple points....even if his hairline corners backed up to give him a more angular/mature look to his forehead, as long as his temple points stayed intact, he would still have a very good facial frame
> 
> Then look at the 2nd guy....an aggressive HT to restore his hairline would help but, if his temples stayed untouched, his facial frame would still be lacking. The line from his sideburn to his hairline corner is almost vertical....this is what I am referring to. This makes a major difference in appearance


 This.

Really affects your side profile when you dont have them.

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## Tracy C

> More belligerent nonsense.


 You will never get get over it if you continue to insist so belligerently on being so dead wrong about it.  Barking at me IS NOT going to change reality.  It is what it is and it is not going to change just because you refuse to accept it.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> You will never get get over it if you continue to insist so belligerently on being so dead wrong about it.  Barking at me IS NOT going to change reality.  It is what it is and it is not going to change just because you refuse to accept it.


 You shouldn't give people misinformation by saying "it happens to all men", I have posted pictures of 2 men, one has his temple points intact, the other doesn't. Incidentally, the second guy is balding.

The only reason why they dont do it is because of limited donor hair.

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## Tracy C

> Misquoting me AGAIN!


 You are such a belligerent lier.  I *DID NOT* and _NEVER HAVE_ said it happens to all men.  I said it happens to most men, especially caucasian males, which is 100% true.

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## Tracy C

> To answer your point Tracy. I think we are looking at 2 different areas of hair.


 No.  Maybe you but not Yeahyeahyeah.  Yeahyeahyeah has a big fat hard on to bark at me for any possible reason, even if it means mis-reading what I have said and mis-quoting what I say.

To get on to your point, contact and interview a dozen hair restoration doctors about it.  If you are talking about the area I am talking about _(which is also the area Yeahyeahyeah is talking about)_, you will get the exact same answer from the doctors that I have given you.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> You are such a belligerent lier.  I *DID NOT* and _NEVER HAVE_ said it happens to all men.  I said it happens to most men, especially caucasian males, which is 100% true.


 "It is because it does not look natural for males to retain a youthful hairline. It's as simple as that. However, if a male patient is trangendered the doctor will fill in the temples."

Well whatever, the statement above is untrue. Christiano Ronaldo looks amazing with his hairstyle. Ginobbli on the other hand looks like shit.

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## greatjob!

To be fair Tracy, usually you're right about most things, but you're not entirely correct on this one. Most men do lose their temple points with age that is correct, but saying that the only way a doctor will restore your temple points is if you're transgender is just flat wrong.

The only factors that matter with temple points is if you have adequate donor supply and that your temple points won't recede further leaving a triangular island. Usually doctors won't restore the temple points until the very end of a restoration plan, but I have seen 100's of examples of temple point work and it is becoming more common, hell even Jotronic had his temple points worked on.

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## UK_

> It is because it does not look natural for males to retain a youthful hairline.  It's as simple as that.  However, if a male patient is trangendered the doctor will fill in the temples.
> 
> If you would take the time to interview dozens of reputable hair restoration doctors about it, they will give you the exact same answer I just gave you.  So don't beat me up for telling you the truth about it.  I did not write the guidelines, I'm just telling you what they are.


 Omfg you're so dumb - just shut up please shut up.

Anyway.. guys I really agree with the importance of temple points.... Denzel Washington is nearly 60 and has intact temple points - he looks 20 years younger than his actual age.

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## ccmethinning

Tracy is right, most caucasian males lost at least some of their temple points as they age. 

I really wish people on this forum would stop constantly referencing Christianaldo Rinaldo's hair as if it is the norm - it's not.

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## Dan26

id donor regenerates we can have our precious temple pointz muahahahaaha

it is true, you seldom see guys over 35 that can rock those kind go young dude harcuts ie faugh hauk, buzzed sides long top etc

but temple recession does make the forehead look odd, and like 25 goin on pointed on, which is a great point, you can have those temple points and be likt a nw2 and it still boosts ur appearance. u dont have to be nw0 juvenile hairline or anythig

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Tracy is right, most caucasian males lost at least some of their temple points as they age. 
> 
> I really wish people on this forum would stop constantly referencing Christianaldo Rinaldo's hair as if it is the norm - it's not.


 I know PLENTY of guys that are older who have hair just as good as his. Both my work colleagues have a great set of hair and they are in their 30s.

Balding is a sign of bad genes.

Only because it's common does not make it OK.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Omfg you're so dumb - just shut up please shut up.
> 
> Anyway.. guys I really agree with the importance of temple points.... Denzel Washington is nearly 60 and has intact temple points - he looks 20 years younger than his actual age.


 Morgan Freeman is 76 and his are still intact  :Big Grin:

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## drybone

If you get your temples filled in, your forehead shirnks, and your shoulders look bigger. You look younger. 

In fact, guys who are BALD on top but temples at the sides are filled in still somehow look more symmetrical  

I just had my second HT and I got even more temple hair filled in 

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

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## Dan26

^^^yes this is what ive been saying, even a buzzed head nw3+ would look much better with filled in temples..

i even made a topic askign surgoens if they would do that, and why not? what is to lose, as long as its FUE? u end up losing more and shaving it still looks better

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## ccmethinning

> I know PLENTY of guys that are older who have hair just as good as his. Both my work colleagues have a great set of hair and they are in their 30s.
> 
> Balding is a sign of bad genes.
> 
> Only because it's common does not make it OK.


 Anecdotes don't make a rule.

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## capitan

This thread is making me feel better about my MPB.

I might by a NW2 at best but I got fabulous temple points. I've been taking them for granted, just tried imagining myself without them and my whole head looks bigger.

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## greatjob!

> Anecdotes don't make a rule.


 You can't reason with him, he lives in an alternate reality

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## PatientlyWaiting

> Actually, it is not wrong.  It is completely normal for males who are not balding to lose their temple hair.  Whether you like it or not, or accept it or not, that is the honest truth about it.  That is the reason why hair restoration doctors typically will not restore the temples for a male unless he is transgendered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is because it does not look natural for males to retain a youthful hairline.  It's as simple as that.  However, if a male patient is trangendered the doctor will fill in the temples.
> 
> If you would take the time to interview dozens of reputable hair restoration doctors about it, they will give you the exact same answer I just gave you.  So don't beat me up for telling you the truth about it.  I did not write the guidelines, I'm just telling you what they are.


 If they have some form of MPB, yes their temples recede. Either that or, the person is 60+ yeas old.

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## Dan26

> This thread is making me feel better about my MPB.
> 
> I might by a NW2 at best but I got fabulous temple points. I've been taking them for granted, just tried imagining myself without them and my whole head looks bigger.


 If you notice them starting to go, hit em with a topical AA (ie RU)...fin doesn't always save the temples and hairline recession.

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## burtandernie

> Tracy is right, most caucasian males lost at least some of their temple points as they age. 
> 
> I really wish people on this forum would stop constantly referencing Christianaldo Rinaldo's hair as if it is the norm - it's not.


 This NW 0 though is what some guys want and I think its understandable since its the ideal hair with zero loss. If you want the more common rounded hair with some hair loss then fine that should be your option though not forced upon someone with the excuse that most men simply get it. If the point is trying to stop hair loss and get back more hair then the end goal is perfection which is NW 0 before you lost any hair at all which for some men is this NW 0 even if most adult men have some baldness.
I do know some men that have no MPB that do not have any temple recession or mature hairlines they have what I had when I was 18 perfect hair. Saying most men bald to some degree and saying who cares because its common we may as well say who cares about baldness in general if most men go bald whether its NW 2 or NW 7 if whether its common or not is the threshold for accepting it

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## burtandernie

> If you notice them starting to go, hit em with a topical AA (ie RU)...fin doesn't always save the temples and hairline recession.


 I would try CB before RU but neither one is safe to use because they were never fully studied hence never FDA approved. I wish we had CB because targeting receptors might actually stop MPB especially if combined with fin or dut might stop MPB completely.

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## capitan

> If you notice them starting to go, hit em with a topical AA (ie RU)...fin doesn't always save the temples and hairline recession.


 What makes you say Fin doesn't always save temples and hairline recession?

And why would RU work instead?

If I were to go with a topical it _would_ be RU, however.

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## Dan26

> What makes you say Fin doesn't always save temples and hairline recession?
> 
> And why would RU work instead?
> 
> If I were to go with a topical it _would_ be RU, however.


 Some will say otherwise, but Testosterone also effects hairloss, specifically the hairline/temple region. Your T raises while on fin so it can become even more of an issue. Not saying this will happen to you, but if you end up being someone who maintains well on fin in the crown/vxerte, but still experiences further recession (happens to a lot), RU stops both T and DHT at the AR(androgen receptor).

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## burtandernie

Yeah the latest buzzword is always DHT this or that because that is all anyone knows about. DHT is just one form of a potent male androgen of which T is much more abundant. If men with MPB have higher receptor counts then men without as claimed by cosmo website that make CB 03 01 then T must also harm your hair.
The only big problem with RU is safey, vehicle, and getting consistently pure batches of it which means a reliable source to buy it from. I worry a lot about that with experimental chemicals that were never fully studied. Yes RU has some studies, but it was never released to the public for reasons.

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## capitan

I've read of many guys using RU with good results, and they go into pretty explicit detail on how they went about it so I don't think the "how-to" would become a problem.

Where is there any evidence that Testosterone causes hair loss specifically in the hairline region?

I'm not debating you guys, I genuinely want to read about this!

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## DAVE52

> *This NW 0 though is what some guys want and I think its understandable since its the ideal hair with zero loss. If you want the more common rounded hair with some hair loss then fine that should be your option though not forced upon someone with the excuse that most men simply get it.* If the point is trying to stop hair loss and get back more hair then the end goal is perfection which is NW 0 before you lost any hair at all which for some men is this NW 0 even if most adult men have some baldness.


 Even with a HT , do you not think that a NW 0 is impossible to achieve , as we only have so much hair

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## didi

How about this

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## UK_

^^^^LOOOOL if Tracy C did hair transplants that's how her patients would end up looking... even if we had doubling/stem cells etc - she is so stupid - I dont know why she thinks she considers herself an authority on mens hair loss....

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## yeahyeahyeah

> ^^^^LOOOOL if Tracy C did hair transplants that's how her patients would end up looking... even if we had doubling/stem cells etc - she is so stupid - I dont know why she thinks she considers herself an authority on mens hair loss....


 She can be stubborn and as a rest annoying when she doesn't get her way.

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## Kalio

I've never really thought about the way temple points frame one's face. This makes me wonder, since mine are fading a bit, would it be wise to apply minoxidil on the temple points and are there people here who have done so with positive results?

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## win200

> I've never really thought about the way temple points frame one's face. This makes me wonder, since mine are fading a bit, would it be wise to apply minoxidil on the temple points and are there people here who have done so with positive results?


 Question seconded.  Mine are a touch soft, but not much; I've thought about whether minoxidil would help.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Question seconded.  Mine are a touch soft, but not much; I've thought about whether minoxidil would help.


 Wondered too.

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## PatientlyWaiting

Well minoxidil and dutasteride brought mine back earlier this year. They are faded, but faded is better than non existent. I had no temples in December 2012, they were really back there. It's easy for me to tell because I have a tiny dot birthmark on one side of my temples and saw it gradually become covered with hair in the summer. So it does work.

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## greatjob!

The only place I know for sure minox did anything was on my temple points. It won't work miracles or anything but it will most likely improve them. The triangle points were pretty much gone on me before and now I have some semblance of that triangle.

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## PatientlyWaiting

greatjob, it's too bad there's no messages allowed here, I woulda asked you some questions about a post you made a while back. I'll have to tell you through here. You remember when you said how cheap Indian FUE doctors are and you mentioned Bhatti, Dogonay[?], and Erdogan(sorry if misspelled). Well after you made that post I looked the doctors up, saw some of their patients results and actually contacted Dr Bhatti for an appointment in May 2014. 

Really if it wasn't for that post of yours I would have thought U.S./Eastern Europe=Best HT doctors. It is so expensive here man, $8-10 per FUE graft. The amount of grafts for my FUE with Bhatti would cost me an arm here. Thank you for that post! Oh and my question is have you gotten an HT in India? Or did you just recommended those doctors out of word of mouth/friends you have?

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## greatjob!

> greatjob, it's too bad there's no messages allowed here, I woulda asked you some questions about a post you made a while back. I'll have to tell you through here. You remember when you said how cheap Indian FUE doctors are and you mentioned Bhatti, Dogonay[?], and Erdogan(sorry if misspelled). Well after you made that post I looked the doctors up, saw some of their patients results and actually contacted Dr Bhatti for an appointment in May 2014. 
> 
> Really if it wasn't for that post of yours I would have thought U.S./Eastern Europe=Best HT doctors. It is so expensive here man, $8-10 per FUE graft. The amount of grafts for my FUE with Bhatti would cost me an arm here. Thank you for that post! Oh and my question is have you gotten an HT in India? Or did you just recommended those doctors out of word of mouth/friends you have?


 I have not had a hair transplant there, I had one disappointing one in the states and about 9 months ago I had a procedure with Dr. Rahal in Canada. I recommend them based on me living on transplant and hairloss forums for the past years, I have seen a lot of great work coming from them.

Just to clarify Dr. Bhatti is the only one in India the others are in Turkey. If the doctors in Turkey offered strip I probably would have traveled to see them, but since my first procedure was strip I already had a scar and I don't have the density to get enough grafts from fue. Go over to the hair restoration network forum and you can see a bunch of patient and doctor submitted cases from those doctors.

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## Notcoolanymore

That dude in the picture didi posted would look like shit even with temple points.  Temple points are the least of his problems.

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## PatientlyWaiting

Yeah sorry, I know they are from Turkey, IDK why I bunched them all together. Yes, that's the exact website I saw their work in. Not one negative comment on Dr Bhatti is what impresses me, in relation to his asking price. I saw more than enough full documentations of his patients from pre-op to 8-12 months and he really does seem to be one of the best doctors. It's too bad politics runs every field and he is still not "recommended". Well at least that I know of. 

He upped his deposit price to $500 this year, it was $250 one day on his website, then literally the next day it was $500. I guess because he's getting so many patients he raised the deposit price. Still, I won't mention any names, but that's a lot cheaper than a $2,500 deposit here in the U.S. from well known reputable doctors. That is a heartbreaker, when you struggle to save up $10-12k for a HT, then find out last minute that you need $2.5k more just to make the appointment.

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## greatjob!

> Yeah sorry, I know they are from Turkey, IDK why I bunched them all together. Yes, that's the exact website I saw their work in. Not one negative comment on Dr Bhatti is what impresses me, in relation to his asking price. I saw more than enough full documentations of his patients from pre-op to 8-12 months and he really does seem to be one of the best doctors. It's too bad politics runs every field and he is still not "recommended". Well at least that I know of. 
> 
> He upped his deposit price to $500 this year, it was $250 one day on his website, then literally the next day it was $500. I guess because he's getting so many patients he raised the deposit price. Still, I won't mention any names, but that's a lot cheaper than a $2,500 deposit here in the U.S. from well known reputable doctors. That is a heartbreaker, when you struggle to save up $10-12k for a HT, then find out last minute that you need $2.5k more just to make the appointment.


 Yeah $2500 is about what most western docs charge for deposit, pretty crazy Bhatti is only charging $500 and I can't believe he used to charge only $250. I heard he charges like $1/graft, is that still his price?

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## drybone

In my opinion, men lose their temple hair as a sign of aging. 

I have seen guys with toupees , wigs , hair systems and the evidence is clear. guys with full heads of hair do not have this WIDE forehead with no temple hair. 

I have seen men who have receded back but kept their temple hair. They look pretty damn cool in my opinion. It frames the face. Here is a famous example........

[IMG][/IMG]

Notice no matter how much a guy balds, his temple hair frames his face and he looks better? I am very surprised more doctors dont do temple hair but I guess donor supply is an issue quite often.

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## PatientlyWaiting

> Yeah $2500 is about what most western docs charge for deposit, pretty crazy Bhatti is only charging $500 and I can't believe he used to charge only $250. I heard he charges like $1/graft, is that still his price?


 Yeah, $1 per graft - economy package only April and March I think. $1.20/graft, standard package, it says (recommended) next to it. And premium package $1.40/graft. 12.36% sales tax. So if you get quoted let's say 3,000 grafts at $1.20, you pay $3,600 + $445 sales tax + $500 deposit = $4,545. 

And lucky me, my sister is a flight attendant, she is allowed to give 8 free flights a year, so guess who is getting free flights to and from India?  :Big Grin:

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## didi

How about this guy, no temple points and looks normal with great head of hair

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## Dan26

> Yeah, $1 per graft - economy package only April and March I think. $1.20/graft, standard package, it says (recommended) next to it. And premium package $1.40/graft. 12.36% sales tax. So if you get quoted let's say 3,000 grafts at $1.20, you pay $3,600 + $445 sales tax + $500 deposit = $4,545. 
> 
> And lucky me, my sister is a flight attendant, she is allowed to give 8 free flights a year, so guess who is getting free flights to and from India?


 Is that for Dr.Bhatti bro?

if it is i need to PM you some how...let me know if you have an account on a site that allows PMs

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## drybone

> How about this guy, no temple points and looks normal with great head of hair


 Is there another photo of him without pushing his forehead down? 
I guy will a full head of hair like that and no temple points is very rare indeed.  I am sure there are exceptions to every rule . 

Every guy I see who has a transplant or wig or hair system gives themselves away with no temple points.

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## 25 going on 65

> How about this guy, no temple points and looks normal with great head of hair


 His hair is meh, that is kind of a flattering pic

http://www.barcaforum.com/showthread...ario-Mandzukic

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## greatjob!

> His hair is meh, that is kind of a flattering pic
> 
> http://www.barcaforum.com/showthread...ario-Mandzukic


 You consider this guys hair to be "meh":








You wouldn't be related to yeahyeahyeah by any chance would you? LOL...

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## 25 going on 65

> You consider this guys hair to be "meh":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You wouldn't be related to yeahyeahyeah by any chance would you? LOL...


 His hair is pretty good styled. What is meh is the area I described before....from sideburn to hairline corner. Even slight temple points would help him out, right now his left side has practically nothing (& he needs to keep an eye on that left hairline corner)
edit- look at the link I posted & see his hair when he is sweaty from playing

His strong low forelock is his saving grace

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## greatjob!

> His hair is pretty good styled. What is meh is the area I described before....from sideburn to hairline corner. Even slight temple points would help him out, right now his left side has practically nothing (& he needs to keep an eye on that left hairline corner)
> edit- look at the link I posted & see his hair when he is sweaty from playing
> 
> His strong low forelock is his saving grace


 That dude is like a NW 0. Also the pictures didi and me posted are not flattering, the picture in the link you posted is an unflattering picture taken in the *rain*, not just sweat. 

If anyone is on this forum and thinks this guy has bad hair, then I feel bad for them, because they are either crazy and/or have an unrealistic idea of what constitutes good hair. That guy is suffering from no evident signs of mpb.

I have a sneaking suspicion you are yet another guy who has perfect hair and shouldn't even be wasting your time here.

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## didi

marios got perfect full head of hair and no temple points and it look completly natural, temple points are not that important as we can see in his case, some people need to get a life

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## win200

The temple point thing is definitely crucial, and a bit weird; has anyone noticed that some guys with otherwise perfect heads of hair just don't have temple points?  It's like their hairline at the temples just naturally falls farther back.  

Look at this picture of Chris Colfer (from that obnoxious show Glee).  Kid has a remarkable head of hair, but just no temple points.  Looks fine now, but it'll hurt him if he starts to recede.

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## PatientlyWaiting

> Is that for Dr.Bhatti bro?
> 
> if it is i need to PM you some how...let me know if you have an account on a site that allows PMs


 Yeah it is Dr.Bhatti. And also if you are hellbent on getting an ISHRS recommended surgeon, Dr Doganay from Turkey is an ISHRS member and is also dirt cheap with the FUE's, 2 euro per graft ($2.71). There's also Dr Erdogan, though I cannot talk about pricing for him because he doesn't have it on his page so there's no way to know unless you contact that clinic.

Sure. I am at Hair loss talk, I am JimmyNeutron, join date of 2009, same avatar.

I would link you but I don't know if the site moderator would edit and  remove it.

Here is a thread by Dr Doganay on Bald Truth.

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=13779

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## PatientlyWaiting

I'd like to correct myself, I was wrong on Dr Bhatti not being recommend by the ISRHS. He indeed is.

http://www.iahrs.org/hair-transplant...jinder-bhatti/

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## drybone

> The temple point thing is definitely crucial, and a bit weird; has anyone noticed that some guys with otherwise perfect heads of hair just don't have temple points?  It's like their hairline at the temples just naturally falls farther back.  
> 
> Look at this picture of Chris Colfer (from that obnoxious show Glee).  Kid has a remarkable head of hair, but just no temple points.  Looks fine now, but it'll hurt him if he starts to recede.


 There is no doubt that the guy in your photo is losing his hair. 

I have been studying temple hair since 1986 . Every time I see a guy like that at 22 or 26 (as the soccer player is) they are losing their hair at 30 and then 40. 

Guys who keep their hair always have temple points. Guys who have transplants at age 30 or 40 and have no temple points does not look realistic. Show me a guy who at age 40 has a full head of hair but no temple points and I will show you a guy with a toupee or hair transplant.

I put up the photo of Nicholson to show  everyone how a guy can have MPB  but if he still has his temple points he can still frame his face.

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## 25 going on 65

> marios got perfect full head of hair and no temple points and it look completly natural, temple points are not that important as we can see in his case, some people need to get a life


 If he had a perfect head of hair he would have temple points. Admittedly he gets away w/ lack of temple hair better than most but I think it is because his face is almost comically narrow....this helps w/ the problem of the forehead looking "too broad"

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## BudskiiHD

> There is no doubt that the guy in your photo is losing his hair. 
> 
> I have been studying temple hair since 1986 . Every time I see a guy like that at 22 or 26 (as the soccer player is) they are losing their hair at 30 and then 40. 
> 
> Guys who keep their hair always have temple points. Guys who have transplants at age 30 or 40 and have no temple points does not look realistic. Show me a guy who at age 40 has a full head of hair but no temple points and I will show you a guy with a toupee or hair transplant.
> 
> I put up the photo of Nicholson to show  everyone how a guy can have MPB  but if he still has his temple points he can still frame his face.


 100% agree with this

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## win200

> There is no doubt that the guy in your photo is losing his hair. 
> 
> I have been studying temple hair since 1986 . Every time I see a guy like that at 22 or 26 (as the soccer player is) they are losing their hair at 30 and then 40. 
> 
> Guys who keep their hair always have temple points. Guys who have transplants at age 30 or 40 and have no temple points does not look realistic. Show me a guy who at age 40 has a full head of hair but no temple points and I will show you a guy with a toupee or hair transplant.
> 
> I put up the photo of Nicholson to show  everyone how a guy can have MPB  but if he still has his temple points he can still frame his face.


 Yikes.  That guy is only 23, according to Wikipedia.  And he has ZERO temple points.

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## drybone

> Yikes.  That guy is only 23, according to Wikipedia.  And he has ZERO temple points.


 You think thats bad. I started losing my temple points at age 20. Its the first thing to go and a sure fire way of knowing you have MPB. 

MPS causes hair to fall out, including temple points.

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## win200

> You think thats bad. I started losing my temple points at age 20. Its the first thing to go and a sure fire way of knowing you have MPB. 
> 
> MPS causes hair to fall out, including temple points.


 Now that I look at the picture of him again, it does look like he's receding a bit in the temples.  I hope he's taking medication; for a TV star, it'll be BRUTAL for him if he loses a significant amount of hair before he's 30.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> You think thats bad. I started losing my temple points at age 20. Its the first thing to go and a sure fire way of knowing you have MPB. 
> 
> MPS causes hair to fall out, including temple points.


 Jordan knight has lost his.

He still has a good set of hair.

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## drybone

> Jordan knight has lost his.
> 
> He still has a good set of hair.


 I have done some research on Knight. He had very nice temple points when he was young and has slowly lost them. He still has some of it but they have thinned out.

His hair has receded but somehow the hair he has remains thick as ever and its not the norm. Its highly unusual. So he is most likely using thickeners , hairspray, mousse, and other methods . Probably rogaine and fin as well. 



This guy is 43 , has MPS but is losing his hair slowly because he started out with so much to begin with.

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## whatsgoingon

> I have done some research on Knight. He had very nice temple points when he was young and has slowly lost them. He still has some of it but they have thinned out.
> 
> His hair has receded but somehow the hair he has remains thick as ever and its not the norm. Its highly unusual. So he is most likely using thickeners , hairspray, mousse, and other methods . Probably rogaine and fin as well. 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy is 43 , has MPS but is losing his hair slowly because he started out with so much to begin with.


 whats MPS?

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## yeahyeahyeah

> I have done some research on Knight. He had very nice temple points when he was young and has slowly lost them. He still has some of it but they have thinned out.
> 
> His hair has receded but somehow the hair he has remains thick as ever and its not the norm. Its highly unusual. So he is most likely using thickeners , hairspray, mousse, and other methods . Probably rogaine and fin as well. 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy is 43 , has MPS but is losing his hair slowly because he started out with so much to begin with.


 
Tbh mate some people receed slightly and then stop naturally.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Tbh mate some people receed slightly and then stop naturally.


 Gary oldman is another one.

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## drybone

I think you guys are here directly for the sake of arguing. 

You guys are pointing to one or two guys out of millions . They also happen to be famous and have a direct conflict of interest to use concealers or whatnot. How do you plan to prove its all their hair?  You dont. They have no doubt had work done or use concealers.

Its a weak to non existent argument.



Oh yeah. This guy has never had any work done on his balding head. lol.  If you cant see that then I dont know what to tell you. 

p.s. Looks like Oldman hung onto his temple points while he balded over time.

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## drybone

> Tbh mate some people receed slightly and then *stop naturally*.


 Nobody STOPS male pattern baldness .

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## greatjob!

> I think you guys are here directly for the sake of arguing. 
> 
> You guys are pointing to one or two guys out of millions . They also happen to be famous and have a direct conflict of interest to use concealers or whatnot. How do you plan to prove its all their hair?  You dont. They have no doubt had work done or use concealers.


 Dude you can't reason with people who think celebrities are the norm or their life is ruined because they are a NW 1/2 at 30, I gave that cause up

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## Ohionin

Hey Drybone 

I never thought about it before but now that you mention it;seems like guys who are bald have no temple hair. Then i see guys with wigs and they have this big mop of hair but no temple points. 

I just started noticing it now. It's true. They make you look younger because young guys have them.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Nobody STOPS male pattern baldness .


 I have been posting on here for a while.
Some people lose hair and it stabilizes. I.e. Get to Norwood 2 and stay there.


I have seen it in my family.

Not every uncle with hairloss is slick bald.

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## drybone

> *Dude you can't reason with people* who think celebrities are the norm or their life is ruined because they are a NW 1/2 at 30, I gave that cause up


 In this case its belligerence. He is  arguing any point for the sake of arguing. When defeated he  simply spins to some new angle that increasingly has nothing to do with the subject at hand. I put him on ignore.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> In this case its belligerence. He is  arguing any point for the sake of arguing. When defeated he  simply spins to some new angle that increasingly has nothing to do with the subject at hand. I put him on ignore.


 Chill the **** out.

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## win200

> Hey Drybone 
> 
> I never thought about it before but now that you mention it;seems like guys who are bald have no temple hair. Then i see guys with wigs and they have this big mop of hair but no temple points. 
> 
> I just started noticing it now. It's true. They make you look younger because young guys have them.


 My appear is helped hugely by my temple points.  I had a transplant (taking me from a NW 2 to a NW .5-ish), and my temple points were crucial in the whole thing framing my face.  My points are just a little soft, but they've been that way for ten+ years.  If they go more, I'd definitely consider a transplant JUST to that area.  Pic attached.

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## California786

> Yeah, $1 per graft - economy package only April and March I think. $1.20/graft, standard package, it says (recommended) next to it. And premium package $1.40/graft. 12.36% sales tax. So if you get quoted let's say 3,000 grafts at $1.20, you pay $3,600 + $445 sales tax + $500 deposit = $4,545. 
> 
> And lucky me, my sister is a flight attendant, she is allowed to give 8 free flights a year, so guess who is getting free flights to and from India?


 Hi PatientlyWaiting,

Just wanted add one quick clarification here. Your calculation seems to add the $500 deposit amount in addition to the proecedure cost. Please note that the $500 deposit does get applied to the total cost. So, the figures in your example should be $500 less. Total of $4045. Lucky you....free flights to India.....doesn't get better than that  :Smile: 
(Actually, flights to India are not too expenseive in the off season, which is pretty much most of the year.....around $1100 range for return tickets)

Thanks,
California786

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## drybone

> My appear is helped hugely by my temple points.  I had a transplant (taking me from a NW 2 to a NW .5-ish), and my temple points were crucial in the whole thing framing my face.  My points are just a little soft, but they've been that way for ten+ years.  If they go more, I'd definitely consider a transplant JUST to that area.  Pic attached.


 Me too. I just had my second procedure done and I specifically had them do my temple points.  They shrink your forehead and frame the face nicely. 

 :Smile:

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## drybone

> Hey Drybone 
> 
> I never thought about it before but now that you mention it;seems like guys who are bald have no temple hair. Then i see guys with wigs and they have this big mop of hair but no temple points. 
> 
> I just started noticing it now. It's true. They make you look younger because young guys have them.


 We get hair transplants because young guys have hair and it makes us look better, why not fill in the temple points so the hair looks more realistic?  :Smile:

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## PatientlyWaiting

> Hi PatientlyWaiting,
> 
> Just wanted add one quick clarification here. Your calculation seems to add the $500 deposit amount in addition to the proecedure cost. Please note that the $500 deposit does get applied to the total cost. So, the figures in your example should be $500 less. Total of $4045. Lucky you....free flights to India.....doesn't get better than that 
> (Actually, flights to India are not too expenseive in the off season, which is pretty much most of the year.....around $1100 range for return tickets)
> 
> Thanks,
> California786


 I had no idea about this at all. I thought it was an additional cost.

Thanks for clarifying.

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## PatientlyWaiting

California786, I think I have seen you on another website as a different name. You post in the hair restoration website right? That is where I saw all of Dr. Bhatti's patients and I remember seeing a representative post there who was from California, does this happen to be you? Good job on being on that one immediately (my false comments). Sorry I really didn't know, but i'm glad you cleared that up. Not like Dr. Bhatti had to become $500 cheaper for me, but he just did. Well good news. And again thanks for correcting me promptly.

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## yeahyeahyeah

I photoshopped my temple points for a photo, ended up getting 100 likes on facebook.

I basically look like a model with no hairloss.

**** my life.

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## BigThinker

> I photoshopped my temple points for a photo, ended up getting 100 likes on facebook.
> 
> *I basically look like a model with no hairloss.*
> 
> **** my life.


 Lol. You photoshop pics for facebook?  Sounds a bit neurotic

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Lol. You photoshop pics for facebook?  Sounds a bit neurotic


 Girls do it too.

Facebook is a marketing tool. Dont be deluded to think otherwise.

But the main point to take away here, I am ****ing pissed off at the lack of treatment options.

My hair to be fair isnt bad, it just looks awkward when I grow it out. So after seeing the shot, I realised that I need to keep it short from now on.

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## Marshmalo

> A
> 
> My decimated right temple F's up my whole facial symmetry. I find I have two options that somewhat help. Have the hair at a decent length to try and cover it, or go zero-1 on the sides and back (crew cut, fade, etc); i think you need decently 'strong' facial features for this though.


 Can I ask why one side is worse thasn the other? Could it be the way you sleep?

I sleep on my right side and my right temple area is much worse than the left.

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## Dan26

> Can I ask why one side is worse thasn the other? Could it be the way you sleep?
> 
> I sleep on my right side and my right temple area is much worse than the left.


 I sleep on my right side too and it is worse...but don't know if it is because I sleep on that side.

I def noticed the right side declining first and then a year later the left started dying too lol

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## BigThinker

> Facebook is a marketing tool. Dont be deluded to think otherwise.


 You're crazier than I originally thought.  Do you have any diagnosed mental illnesses?

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## BigThinker

> I sleep on my right side too and it is worse...but don't know if it is because I sleep on that side.
> 
> I def noticed the right side declining first and then a year later the left started dying too lol


 No, it's not uncommon to bald asymmetrically.  My right temple is way worse than left, but my left hairline and overall mid-anterior are worse than my right in regards to density - anecdotal.

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## Notcoolanymore

> *Girls do it* too.


 Exactly.  I understand looks are important on our society but come on dude.

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## greatjob!

> You're crazier than I originally thought.  Do you have any diagnosed mental illnesses?


 Do you really need to ask?

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## Notcoolanymore

> Do you really need to ask?


 lol

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Exactly.  I understand looks are important on our society but come on dude.


 I guess that I am a bit narcissistic, but that's because I take pride of my appearance. I remember when I was growing up, losing hair was the one thing that I did not want to happen, would rather have acne.

****.
Hairloss.

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## Dav7

> It seems to me as if most hair restoration surgery ignores temple points or treats them like luxuries instead of necessities. This is wrong. Look at good cases of temple point restoration....the difference in how the face is framed is HUGE
> 
> I have reached a point where aggressive hairline restoration w/o temple work depresses me. The lost opportunity is just crazy.....obviously the patient still looks much better,  but the addition of youthful temples would add major points.
> 
> Do temple points take a lot of grafts to restore or something? Why do they get ignored this often?


 How many grafts as a rough estimate would it take to restore the temple points would anybody know?

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## 25 going on 65

> How many grafts as a rough estimate would it take to restore the temple points would anybody know?


 No idea, it depends on each case I am sure

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## ccmethinning

> How many grafts as a rough estimate would it take to restore the temple points would anybody know?


 I've seen pretty radical transformations done with as few as 400 on each side, and more moderate ones done with as few as 200 on each side.

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## Dav7

> I've seen pretty radical transformations done with as few as 400 on each side, and more moderate ones done with as few as 200 on each side.


 If the figure can be this low (400), then why are HT surgeons so hesitant about adding temple points considering how important they are in framing the face, I don't get it.  :Confused:

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## 534623

> If the figure can be this low (400), then *why are HT surgeons so hesitant about adding temple points* considering how important they are in framing the face, I don't get it.


 Basically, there are 2 main reasons;

1) Most bald guys try basically to get their hair back at the front and/or vertex/tonsure area and as dense as possible as well - but mostly there is (>NW5) simply a LACK of sufficient donor hair.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

2) Even there is still sufficient donor hair... 

http://s14.directupload.net/images/140104/nrft556j.jpg

...this is still the second main problem. That means, to get a sufficient number of hairs with finer caliber, but still PERMANENT hair.

Anyway, I will also try to start to restore my *temple peaks* during my 3rd HST procedure. btw - the guy in the photo/link I posted is another HST patient and (unfortunately) not me, because the guy has still lots of natural hair  :Wink:

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## drybone

For guys who catch their MPS early enough , or guys  like myself who at 47 are still a NW 3 , the doctors have no problem with the temple hair. 

What they dont want is to waste the donor hair on temples when their clients need it on the top or crown.

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## burtandernie

> I guess that I am a bit narcissistic, but that's because I take pride of my appearance. I remember when I was growing up, losing hair was the one thing that I did not want to happen, would rather have acne.
> 
> ****.
> Hairloss.


 Yeah probably because hair does not grow back by itself and has no remotely decent treatments. Acne does.

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## burtandernie

Very hard to quantify the importance of hair. I sometimes question if its even more important then most people even on here seem to think. NW 0 makes a guy look very young for his age, and most actors or models do have NW 0 hair. Looking younger is hard to view as a bad thing to me at least but I guess some guys think otherwise.

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## Dav7

> Very hard to quantify the importance of hair. I sometimes question if its even more important then most people even on here seem to think. NW 0 makes a guy look very young for his age, and most actors or models do have NW 0 hair. Looking younger is hard to view as a bad thing to me at least but I guess some guys think otherwise.


 Why do so many keep bringing up the term NW0, it doesn't even exist on the Norwood scale? Doesn't NW1 essentially mean zero hair loss (hence why they are unsuited for HT's), with recession beginning at a NW2 with the hairline becoming more rounded with miniaturised peak loss occurring as opposed to the more squared off look with the NW1 hairline of younger people?

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## burtandernie

You might be right I dont know if there is a NW 0 or not I guess you could argue some hair loss is shown on the NW 1 picture in that chart? Those charts are not that accurate or great depending on what one you look at or how the pictures are drawn or use real life pictures.

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## 25 going on 65

Forum users came up w/ "NW0" because some feel that the NW1 sketch shows minor recession. As I have said before....this chart should not be taken as gospel. it is a bunch of rough sketches done many years ago. All that matters is, are you losing hair or not? If yes then how far are you from when you had no hair loss?

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## Dav7

> Forum users came up w/ "NW0" because some feel that the NW1 sketch shows minor recession. As I have said before....this chart should not be taken as gospel. it is a bunch of rough sketches done many years ago. All that matters is, are you losing hair or not? If yes then how far are you from when you had no hair loss?


 Good point.  However if a HT surgeon says he will restore you to a NW2, does that mean the appearance of a somewhat normal hairline in a 25+ years of age male, or would most HT's be limited to crappy hairlines with widows peaks?

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## 25 going on 65

> Good point.  However if a HT surgeon says he will restore you to a NW2, does that mean the appearance of a somewhat normal hairline in a 25+ years of age male, or would most HT's be limited to crappy hairlines with widows peaks?


 Depends on the surgeon & surgery. Most HT's I feel the hairline is too high or the temples are not restored enough. However I understand why they do this because grafts are limited
You can ask him to show you what he means by NW2. Ask him to draw the line on your forehead, or at least on a pic of you

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## msnyc15

> You will never get get over it if you continue to insist so belligerently on being so dead wrong about it.  Barking at me IS NOT going to change reality.  It is what it is and it is not going to change just because you refuse to accept it.


 What does this even mean? First of all it does not happen to all men, try for instance James Brolin

https://www.google.com/search?q=jame...2F%3B280%3B350

This is like telling every woman who wants perky breast, less forehead wrinkles, tighter tummy that they just shouldn't do it because it isn't natural.

CLEARLY HTS are best and IMHO ONLY good if the temple points are fixed.  The HTS I see with receded temple points that go straight up and then a straight across hairline look like what they are; hair transplants no matter how 'good' the work is. I'd opt for not going lower and or slightly less density to get the temples fixed. And no, it wouldn't make me look 'transgender', it would make my ht look natural and me look younger. Clearly YOU have some issue with that.

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## msnyc15

> Balding man


 Quick mock-up of ht w/o temples and with. Does that look like a transgender male?

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## msnyc15

Do super low hairlines and super thick head of hair count as an arugment against temple points? Heck if any Doctors could turn NW4 on to that no one would be discussing temple points

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## thejack

https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...al-2-Sessions&

Some great temple work by Shapiro there

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## Dr. Baubac Rep

This is an older thread, but is such a great discussion and a very important topic that is often overlooked in today's hair restoration world. Temple points are a critical component to a natural looking hairline that is often either ignored by the surgeon or just over looked. 

I posted a few examples of Dr. Baubac's hairline restorations below where the temple points were recreated. A critical factor when it comes to facial framing and a natural looking hair transplant. 

example #1 

example #2 

example #3

----------

