# Men's Hair Loss > Men's Hair Loss: Start Your Own Topic >  Dutasteride

## mark-1

Hi everyone

Has anyone tried Dutasteride? The reason I ask is that Fin isn't working for me. I want to try Dutasteride to see if I respond to it. Few questions:

1) Does it work better than fin?
2) Which version should I get? I notice on inhouseparmacy there is Dutagen, Dutas and Avodart. The price differences between these is fairly substantial.

PS: Is inhousepharmacy a reputable source for these meds?


Thanks in advance

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## Shan

How long have you been taking Fin?

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## drybone

Hi and welcome. I am kinda in the same boat as you are. 

I have been on fin for almost 3 months. I have had two minor sheds but combined my frontal hair looks thinner. However, I had a hair transplant so some of it could have been shock loss right behind the implants. 

Someone on here has also suggested I switch to DUT .However, I went through minor side effects on Fin and now have none, and I am not sure about chucking that out the window for an even stronger med. 

I too am wondering just how much better DUT is and if it will actually regrow hair

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## Shan

> Hi and welcome. I am kinda in the same boat as you are. 
> 
> I have been on fin for almost 3 months. I have had two minor sheds but combined my frontal hair looks thinner. However, I had a hair transplant so some of it could have been shock loss right behind the implants. 
> 
> Someone on here has also suggested I switch to DUT .However, I went through minor side effects on Fin and now have none, and I am not sure about chucking that out the window for an even stronger med. 
> 
> I too am wondering just how much better DUT is and if it will actually regrow hair


 I think you should consider yourself lucky that your sides went away, and will probably get worse ones on a stronger medicine.

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## Aames

Hey, OP. 25 going on 65, PatientlyWaiting, and I all use duta and have logs up if you care to make a search. I can personally attest to the validity of Dr. Reddy's Dutas from inhouse. I have a blood test in my log that shows that I have the DHT levels of a child, obviously indicating that the medicine is working and is legitimate. No sides to report with just over two months under my belt.

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## mark-1

> Hey, OP. 25 going on 65, PatientlyWaiting, and I all use duta and have logs up if you care to make a search. I can personally attest to the validity of Dr. Reddy's Dutas from inhouse. I have a blood test in my log that shows that I have the DHT levels of a child, obviously indicating that the medicine is working and is legitimate. No sides to report with just over two months under my belt.


 So inhousepharmacy is legit?

Would you recommend the generic?  The real thing costs too much.

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## PatientlyWaiting

I'm 1 month in using Dutagen 0.5 a day from Inhouse, along with fin 1.25/day [Dr Reddy's], and Rogaine twice a day. The results so far are not what I expected with just 1 month of use, and I mean that in a good way. I'm having to use less Toppik now [hair concealer]. I would say the Dutasteride has to be a big part of this good thickening i'm getting, because I have been on Rogaine twice a day and 1.25mg fin/day in the past and didn't see the results i'm getting now, until like months and months of use.

I was expecting to see what i'm getting now, in like 6 months. My plan was to update my thread with pics in 6 months, but with the results i'm getting i'll have to bring the date down to 3-4 months, and i'm even tempted to show you guys the before and after pics I have now. But i'll wait till I get more thickening.

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## ChrisM

People who are thinking of Dutasteride should maybe consider the following:

Dutasteride is the stronger cousin of Finasteride. If you have side effects from Finasteride they will only more than likely worsen with Dutasteride as they share the same chemical profile and both stop the prostrate and testes from creating the dihydrotestosterone giving your hair the space it needs to recuperate.

If you had no gains with Finasteride it is a 50/50 gamble that Dutasteride will work that is if the miniaturized hairs are not too far gone based on the time they have been in that state and the arrector pilli muscle pushing the hair up the shaft has not atrophied to the point of being gone.  That will determine if under the right conditions if the vellus "peach fuzz" hairs will stay that way or with Minoxidil become terminal hairs and grow out fuller with consistent use of Finasteride, Minoxidil and Nizoral.. you need all three for success.

I have used Finasteride ten months now and seen slow but successful results over time  but patience is needed. Three months you won't see anything  no one would so that is unrealistic no matter what product you used. Restoration from hair loss is a long and involved process that would take at least on the outside if at the least 8 months to a year to see anything. Most say it would take a year or more to see something definitive in terms of changes.

I am Norwood 5 with the classic horseshoe pattern and yet the hairs are sprouting up and darkening on the crown and the vertex that were vellus hairs and the density is increasing after starting my use of the drug since last July going to my tenth month  but even this will take time and I have experienced minimal shedding so far. 

But shedding is not or does not automatically equal  a bad thing. People think automatically this is the worst. No it means the medication is working to push out the dead hair that can not be revived out for new growing hair through the follicle shaft.

If you use Finasteride as a primer you can always go to Dutasteride later on if you wish to improve results but if you start with Dutasteride you can not go back to Finasteride as that is a step downward it would be like the analogy of going from the 800 pound gorilla in the room down to the 20 pound monkey.

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## PatientlyWaiting

> *Three months you won't see anything  no one would so that is unrealistic no matter what product you used.* .


 That does it.

Explain what is going in here then. 

Click the picture to see larger version: 

Before pic: March 29th, 2013.

After pic: Today [4/26].

Before:


After:

take screen shot

Less than 1 month. So explain that? The pictures aren't the best quality, but it is clear as day that my vertex was damn near hair less on March 29th, and now there's hair today. That's one month buddy. So what you said is false. Same hair cut, both pics in the bathroom under the same light, same angle, same spot.

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## PatientlyWaiting

Like seriously, why would I even lie to myself? Give my self false hope. Why? There's no point in that. Not a big deal, but the pictures show obvious thickening in less than one month.

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## ChrisM

Also using both at the same time is pretty stupid. I have my happy and healthy kids already so I am not jeopardizing my ability to procreate by bringing a about a side effect like erectile dysfunction or low ejaculate and sperm count. Even so I started off with Finasteride to see if the side effects would take shape which in the beginning they did happen and then stopped altogether and my erections came back strong as ever. You wean yourself off of _one drug_ Finasteride before using the other Dutasteride that is just plain common sense because the mixture of both could set off god knows what in your system.

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## PatientlyWaiting

If you get no side effects on either, who the f-ck cares...

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## ChrisM

> That does it.
> 
> Explain what is going in here then. 
> 
> Click the picture to see larger version: 
> 
> Before pic: March 29th, 2013.
> 
> After pic: Today [4/26].
> ...


 *
YOU ARE USING BOTH.. which one is working and which one isn't ? How can YOU know for sure ?* You were only on Fin for a few months what a little over 3 months  and it is frankly bullshit to think that a drug could work on MPB that fast. 

That said you have only been using Dutasteride for a month. One month of cycling into your system along with Minoxidil and other things I am sure. How can you say in earnest which combination was effective and which was not effective  ? So you aren't lying but you can't flat out say Fin didn't work for you or doesn't work for anyone else that is the only thing that I am skeptical of.. not your results. You didn't give it a chance to work before jumping onto the next drug.

So you have great results.. good luck and hope you maintain them but there are guys on this site that would have you pour all kinds of concoctions on your head and shell out over 200 dollars buying digital scales, powders and Everclear. Or get  hair transplants immediately for 2000 plus dollars without giving the person the facts that their internal chemistry and hormones/DHT  will reduce that hair all over again and if Propecia Finasteride or Dutasteride doesn't work then you have only reset the clock to it falling out all over again  in the next few years.

To that effect I believe in giving people the proper balanced information based on not only my experiences but the scientific facts as they have been presented to me  by Spex and others far more knowledgeable that either of us.

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## ChrisM

> If you get no side effects on either, who the f-ck cares...


 It is irresponsible and dangerous which is why someone the **** cares. You can go down a dangerous road if you want but don't encourage people to follow you and then you get to shrug your shoulders while you are ok and while they are ****ed up as a result. *THAT* by definition is irresponsible. :Mad:

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## PatientlyWaiting

> *
> YOU ARE USING BOTH.. which one is working and which one isn't ? How can YOU know for sure ?*


 But you said no product can give you results at 1 month?




> You were only on Fin for a few months what a little over 3 months


 Before starting Dutasteride 0.5mg/day, I was on fin 1.25mg for 3 years. Don't know where you got 3 months from.




> and it is frankly bullshit to think that a drug could work on MPB that fast.


 Well it just did. 




> That said you have only been using Dutasteride for a month. One month of cycling into your system along with Minoxidil and other things I am sure. How can you say in earnest which combination was effective and which was not effective  ? So you aren't lying but you can't flat out say Fin didn't work for you or doesn't work for anyone else that is the only thing that I am skeptical of.. not your results. You didn't give it a chance to work before jumping onto the next drug.


 Like I said in a previous post, in the past, I used fin 1.25mg/Rogaine and didn't get these results this fast.




> So you have great results.. good luck and hope you maintain them but there are guys on this site that would have you pour all kinds of concoctions on your head and shell out over 200 dollars buying digital scales, powders and Everclear. Or get  hair transplants immediately for 2000 plus dollars without giving the person the facts that theIR internal chemistry and hormones/DHT  will reduce that hair all over again and if Propecia Finasteride or Dutasteride doesn't work then you have only reset the clock to it falling out all over again  in the next few years.


 Thank you.




> To that effect I believe in giving people the proper balanced information based on not only my experiences but the scientific facts as they have been presented to me  by Spex and others far more knowledgeable that either of us.


 That is very caring of you. Keep at it. But I have to counter the information you are giving out, with my own experience and results, if I don't do not agree with it. What ever the scientific facts, spex or any hair loss expert says, I can only go by my own experiences and help people according to my own knowledge. With that said, Spex is a very helpful guy and I refer a lot of guys to his informative threads often.

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## PatientlyWaiting

> It is irresponsible and dangerous which is why someone the **** cares. You can go down a dangerous road if you want but don't encourage people to follow you and then you get to shrug your shoulders while you are ok and while they are ****ed up as a result. *THAT* by definition is irresponsible.


 Exactly. It is also irresponsible to scare some one away from these drugs without even telling them to try it. They could be missing out on possibly curing their hair loss because some one told them their d-ck will fall off.

There's nothing wrong with suggesting hair loss sufferers FDA approved drugs that worked for you.

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## Shan

> That does it.
> 
> Explain what is going in here then. 
> 
> Click the picture to see larger version: 
> 
> Before pic: March 29th, 2013.
> 
> After pic: Today [4/26].
> ...


 the first photo has flash on your bald spot and the second has no flash so does not look as bad

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## ChrisM

> But you said no product can give you results at 1 month?
> 
> 
> 
> Before starting Dutasteride 0.5mg/day, I was on fin 1.25mg for 3 years. Don't know where you got 3 months from.
> 
> 
> 
> Well it just did. 
> ...


 You mentioned you are currenly using both Dut at 0.5 mg and Fin at 1.25 mg now so you never answered my question how do you know what is working ? You never stopped using one for the other or the answer would be quite clear. Number two you are using Rogaine in addition regardless of what drug internally you are taking so your responsiveness albeit as you have mentioned might have been fast but that is not atypical based on scientific or clinical trials. 
  One month is usually not enough for either to determine a consistent result and particularly when there is a shedding process to come in upcoming months in which case five months from now you might not be as eager to show a picture result of yourself.

 Secondly and this is being polite from the pictures the improvement you are showing  is not that appreciable  as your head is shaved down and your head is at a different angle in the lighting. You still have a diffuse pattern of baldness showing a horseshoe pattern of baldness at about the beginning of NW4.

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## ChrisM

> the first photo has flash on your bald spot and the second has no flash so does not look as bad


 Exactly Shan it is the same pattern of baldness with different lighting and angles. The meds did nothing substantial for him at this point. He is a Norwood 3 advancing into 4 on the scale of MPB.

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## PatientlyWaiting

> the first photo has flash on your bald spot and the second has no flash so does not look as bad


 There's no flash on either. Same BB Torch 5mp camera. The after pic is in the day time, the before pic is in the night time. I'll take one later in the night.

The after pic should be worse, it is exposed to more light.

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## Shan

> There's no flash on either. Same BB Torch 5mp camera. The after pic is in the day time, the before pic is in the night time. I'll take one later in the night.
> 
> The after pic should be worse, it is exposed to more light.


 maybe there is no flash, but definite lighting on the bald spot

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## PatientlyWaiting

I have lots and lots of before and after pictures that show improvement, I just showed two of like 100 i've taken within a month. 

I was actually not sure if I should show my pics at all, because in the past I always see some one complaining about something in the pics of people who show their progress, like if they are liars or doing some kind of scam.

So honestly, i'm not sure if I will stick around and help any one. Because there is too much negativity and always a group of naysayers. Showing pics or not showing pics, it's damn if you do, damn if you don't. So I will not stick around that long, I will show more pictures at 4-6 months and leave, because honestly I can not stand the negativity on the FDA approved drug son this site.

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## PatientlyWaiting

> maybe there is no flash, but definite lighting on the bald spot


 So you are telling me that you feel that without this "light", that there would be hair where there appears obvious skin with no hair?

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## ChrisM

> There's no flash on either. Same BB Torch 5mp camera. The after pic is in the day time, the before pic is in the night time. I'll take one later in the night.
> 
> The after pic should be worse, it is exposed to more light.


 Its the same as Shan pointed out. Your progress as your pointed out seems dubious at best. I didn't have to discredit what you ust said.. you did that to yourself.

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## Shan

> So you are telling me that you feel that without this "light", that there would be hair where there appears obvious skin with no hair?


 Sorry bro, not trying to be negative and putting your hair down, i was just stating that in the first photo there is an obvious light which I'm sure you can see yourself

Im not doubting that Dut has not worked for you.
Good luck with your progress

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## PatientlyWaiting

> Its the same as Shan pointed out. Your progress as your pointed out seems dubious at best. I didn't have to discredit what you ust said.. you did that to yourself.


 The truth is, there will be no light showing anymore. Because the light bulb was so strong on my bare skin, now there is hair there. No matter what picture I take from now on, there will be no light bulb reflecting off of my scalp.

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## Widowmaker

Wow!  Looks like Dut. is working great!  Camera flash on the before pic isn't going to misrepresent things *that* much...so, clearly there is improvement.  At the very least you can be more confident any current loss has been stabilized.

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## PatientlyWaiting

I'll take one later in the night when there is no sunlight. I will try my best to get this light bulb to show right on my crown in the same spot, i'll take as many as I can. But the light bulb will no longer reflect off of the scalp because there's actually hair there now. In order to get the light bulb to reflect again, i'd have to shave that part of the crown with a zero.

I'm not the only one that notices though, I don't tell any one but my mother about the medications i'm taking and some how my friend who knows nothing about my meds, only knows I use toppik, he visited me a couple days ago when I had just showered and had no toppik on and he asked me why do you have the toppik in the crown only. I told him I don't have toppik at all, I just showered. He said "the back of your head looks like it has more hair".

But who knows though, maybe the light bulb was reflecting on my crown and he was just seeing things.

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## PatientlyWaiting

> Wow!  Looks like Dut. is working great!  Camera flash on the before pic isn't going to misrepresent things *that* much...so, clearly there is improvement.  At the very least you can be more confident any current loss has been stabilized.


 Oh it definitely has stabilized. I went from seeing 10-20 hairs on my hand when shampooing, soon as I introduced dut, it went down to 2-3 in a week. Now if I see 1-2 it's rare.

But I have to be careful about saying outrageous claims like these though. They are apparently unbelievable.

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## Shan

Bro if you are genuinely convinced that you are growing hair, and if other people are noticing it then thats great and I'm glad for you.

You shouldn't have to post pics here and convince people, because some people will try to put you down however saying that there does seem to be an improvement

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## PatientlyWaiting

> Bro if you are genuinely convinced that you are growing hair, and if other people are noticing it then thats great and I'm glad for you.
> 
> You shouldn't have to post pics here and convince people, because some people will try to put you down


 The only reason I post here is to try to help others. I already know what to use and what not to use, i've been a member of hair loss forums since 2009. I'm not an expert or a doctor, but I know what to use and what to stay away from. So I just stick around to help. But I will probably move on eventually. I can not see myself staying here for years reading the cutting edge section. That would drive me crazy.

And no, I don't think they want to put me or anyone down. It's just that some people want to be skeptic, some want to expose something and be a hero.

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## Shan

> The only reason I post here is to try to help others. I already know what to use and what not to use, i've been a member of hair loss forums since 2009. I'm not an expert or a doctor, but I know what to use and what to stay away from. So I just stick around to help. But I will probably move on eventually. I can not see myself staying here for years reading the cutting edge section. That would drive me crazy.
> 
> And no, I don't think they want to put me or anyone down. It's just that some people want to be skeptic, some want to expose something and be a hero.


 well i hope you know i wasn't trying to be "that" guy
Peace bro

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## ChrisM

As I said good luck to you earlier I meant it. I don't believe you( I have my own reasons for retaining skepticism.. it is healthy and natural to be skeptical of this at the beginning if you believe anything you will fall for everything) but then it isn't your job up to try to convince me one way or the other pictures or not.  What matters is what you believe in terms of the outcome.

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## PatientlyWaiting

@Shan I understand, I see the light bulb you are talking about that "makes it look worse". But there is no way I can replicate that light bulb shine in any of my after pictures now. It's impossible because that part of the scalp is no longer that hairless. So every one who sees that before pic with any new picture will all think the lack of the reflecting light is part of the "improvement".

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## 25 going on 65

> Also using both at the same time is pretty stupid. I have my happy and healthy kids already so I am not jeopardizing my ability to procreate by bringing a about a side effect like erectile dysfunction or low ejaculate and sperm count. Even so I started off with Finasteride to see if the side effects would take shape which in the beginning they did happen and then stopped altogether and my erections came back strong as ever. You wean yourself off of _one drug_ Finasteride before using the other Dutasteride that is just plain common sense because the mixture of both could set off god knows what in your system.


 I take them both. Same as PatientlyWaiting, .5mg dut and 1.25mg fin.

I would never want to be irresponsible and promote this experimental regimen to others. However let me just say....if you want to be cool+popular+successful+have a great sex life, you 100&#37; must use fin and dut together. 
I'm especially talking to all you kids out there, all you guys who have not finished developing yet. Dut+fin is *the coolest.* If you are not doing it, your peers probably don't respect you.

Edit: It makes me feel like Superman.

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## ChrisM

> I take them both. Same as PatientlyWaiting, .5mg dut and 1.25mg fin.
> 
> I would never want to be irresponsible and promote this experimental regimen to others. However let me just say....if you want to be cool+popular+successful+have a great sex life, you 100% must use fin and dut together. 
> I'm especially talking to all you kids out there, all you guys who have not finished developing yet. Dut+fin is *the coolest.* If you are not doing it, your peers probably don't respect you.
> 
> Edit: It makes me feel like Superman.


 Uh huh.  Well it might be that for you and Patiently Waiting. Everyone's biochemistry is not the same all things being equal based on age, genetics and other variables. Someone is going to try that combo and come back screaming at the both of you for taking your advice  for using and Fin and Dut and the combination turning off their nuts and giving them wet limp linguini dick. And that their  respective girlfriends dumped them for not being into pasta that night or any night after that. And when those guys come look for you. I am just going to smile and stand aside and let you and Patiently Waiting take the heat pasta man.

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## PatientlyWaiting

> Uh huh.  Well it might be that for you and Patiently Waiting. Everyone's biochemistry is not the same all things being equal based on age, genetics and other variables. Someone is going to try that combo and come back screaming at the both of you for taking your advice  for using and Fin and Dut and the combination turning off their nuts and giving them wet limp linguini dick. And that their  respective girlfriends dumped them for not being into pasta that night or any night after that. And when those guys come look for you. I am just going to smile and stand aside and let you and Patiently Waiting take the heat pasta man.


 I think it's safe to say his post when over your head.

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## ChrisM

> I think it's safe to say his post when over your head.


 That would be *went* over you head. 


And no I answered his condescending sarcasm appropriately. The same pharmaceutical combination that works for you and a lucky few  might not work for others therefore while ok to encourage others based on results the same might not work for them and if it causes them injury though accountability falls on them.. you encouraged it without being a doctor or having the degree of a chemist or knowing valuable key factors about their biology that resulted in erectile dysfunction etcetera.


 What works for you is great and that is awesome but it might not work for the next guy.  Usually people use Dutasteride or Finasteride and not both at the same time.  They wean themselves off of one drug and start the other letting it cycle out of their system.

That would be doing the majority here a disservice to say its ok guys just try this  and f-ck the consequences.  That's not cool man.

 Because the consequences  if they do fall on those guys it will be on their heads and not yours. So while I am happy for your results I am not as appreciative of the overall message you are sending that everyone should do this method or approach. Your experiences led you there cool and it happened to produce a good result that was noteworthy still it is worth mentioned to those noobs out there reading this  that you are blending two drugs one FDA approved and the other not both which cause a host of sexual side effects alone by themselves let alone being used at the same time.

 And it reminds me  of the extreme guys on the hairlosshelp.com site where guys are using dutasteride, finasteride, topical spiro, Nizoral, Minoxidil, biotin and saw palmetto along with RU  all at the same time and say f-ck it  and then they  are a) surprised at the side effects b) develop gyno, man boobs and have leaking nipples c) basic accuse the other posters in those threads  of causing  their chemical castration by following such a regimen or d) develop erectile dysfunction for the next 4-5 years before getting an erection back.

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## PatientlyWaiting

> That would be *went* over you head. 
> 
> 
> And no I answered his condescending sarcasm appropriately. The same pharmaceutical combination that works for you and a lucky few  might not work for others therefore while ok to encourage others based on results the same might not work for them and if it causes them injury though accountability falls on them.. you encouraged it without being a doctor or having the degree of a chemist or knowing valuable key factors about their biology that resulted in erectile dysfunction etcetera.
> 
> 
>  What works for you is great and that is awesome but it might not work for the next guy.  Usually people use Dutasteride or Finasteride and not both at the same time.  They wean themselves off of one drug and start the other letting it cycle out of their system.
> 
> That would be doing the majority here a disservice to say its ok guys just try this  and f-ck the consequences.  That's not cool man.
> ...


 I feel bad for anyone who would take my suggestion and blame me if something goes wrong. It is pretty obvious when you are on a forum that 95% of the members there are not professionals, so you have to take advice at your own risk.

If a member tells me to take Durtasteride 0.5mg a day, and I do it and get all kinds of negative side effects, I can not blame that person because I know he/she is not a doctor. Nobody here is an 8 year old being offered candy from a stranger. We're all trying to help each other according to what worked for us. Doctors are labeled here, and if they are not labeled doctors or consultants then it's your duty as a poster to look out for yourself and pick and choose what advice you want to take.

If I go ahead and buy "TRX2" or "Neogenic by Loreal" and none of them work and I spend a lot of money on these products over a course of a year, I can not blame those guys who hyped it up for me wasting money, I have to blame myself.

I think you should show your peers more respect in their knowledge, nobody here is a 6 year old kid who can not think for themselves. Every one should know to check the dangers of certain FDA approved drugs, and should know they are taking a risk no matter who suggests it to them, whether it's a doctor or John Doe. This is a hair loss forum, people sign up to seek help from hair loss sufferers all around the world. You need to stop acting as if i'm purposely suggesting some to poison and kill themselves. We are all only trying to help each other and find a solution to our hair loss.

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## ChrisM

You are making a huge assumption there. I never said you were deliberately trying to poison people here. What I said was that the advice you were doling out was misguided and might send people down the wrong path and do more harm than good. That's all. Just as you are entitled to your opinion and are free to express it within the hair loss forum as we are adults here as you have said. Then within that same context I am free to disagree with you and hold my own opinion and state the reasons why I disagree with your statements. People here on the forum can then judge for themselves based on the posts and doing their own research and homework and follow their own conclusions.

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## WarLord

I don't see any reason, why the combination of fin and dut should be "poisonous". I only think that it is unnecessary. I have been on this combination for 11 weeks already, because it turned out that finasteride did NOTHING in me (well, except incessant shedding). In fact, it was an utter joke, as for the suppression of my DHT levels. 

After those 11 weeks, my DHT levels FINALLY started to decline on the level that is typical for average finasteride users (from 25-32 ng/dl to 17 ng/dl). And it took 1.25 mg fin + 0.25 mg dut! The next week, I will jump on 0.375 mg dut + 1.25 mg fin, which would roughly equal to the effect of 0.5 mg dut. In the next months, I plan to quit finasteride completely, but I still have 20 pills (=80 days), so it would be unreasonable to throw it into a scrap basket. 

On my example, you can see that finasteride is completely ineffective in some men. The reason obviously lies in the large standard deviation of DHT suppression, as this graph demonstrates:



The average is more or less the same in all studies (-70&#37; DHT), but some guys can experience -90% suppression, while others less than -50%. On sufficiently high dutasteride doses, these differences quickly disappear. Therefore, I keep telling young people: Don't waste your time with finasteride. It was a breakthrough at its time, but now it is an outdated drug. There is no rational reason, why you should start finasteride as the first treatment.

BTW, the only side effects that I have noticed on dutasteride are increased libido and acne on my back.

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## 25 going on 65

> After those 11 weeks, my DHT levels FINALLY started to decline on the level that is typical for average finasteride users (from 25-32 ng/dl to 17 ng/dl). And it took 1.25 mg fin + 0.25 mg dut! The next week, I will jump on 0.375 mg dut + 1.25 mg fin, which would roughly equal to the effect of 0.5 mg dut.


 What form does your dut come in that lets you measure out exact doses? I buy Avodart and it comes in sealed gel capsules.

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## 25 going on 65

> Uh huh.  Well it might be that for you and Patiently Waiting. Everyone's biochemistry is not the same all things being equal based on age, genetics and other variables. Someone is going to try that combo and come back screaming at the both of you for taking your advice  for using and Fin and Dut and the combination turning off their nuts and giving them wet limp linguini dick. And that their  respective girlfriends dumped them for not being into pasta that night or any night after that. And when those guys come look for you. I am just going to smile and stand aside and let you and Patiently Waiting take the heat pasta man.


 I was just joking when I made that post, I actually have no idea what dut+fin might do to me in the long term. I just take them both because 1) I was too paranoid to quit fin when I started dut, & 2) I can not think of a documented side effect that is worse to me than hair loss

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## Aames

If you respond to both fin and duta, fin in the presence of duta is pretty much useless. I, and the others that do it, only take them both for extra insurance. Consequently, taking them both is no more dangerous than taking duta.

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## WarLord

> What form does your dut come in that lets you measure out exact doses? I buy Avodart and it comes in sealed gel capsules.


 I also use Avodart capsules. But I dose it flexibly.

1 pill every other day = 0.25 mg/day

2 pills every 3 days = 0.33 mg/day

3 pills every 4 days = 0.375 mg/day etc.

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## ChrisM

> I don't see any reason, why the combination of fin and dut should be "poisonous". I only think that it is unnecessary. I have been on this combination for 11 weeks already, because it turned out that finasteride did NOTHING in me (well, except incessant shedding). In fact, it was an utter joke, as for the suppression of my DHT levels. 
> 
> After those 11 weeks, my DHT levels FINALLY started to decline on the level that is typical for average finasteride users (from 25-32 ng/dl to 17 ng/dl). And it took 1.25 mg fin + 0.25 mg dut! The next week, I will jump on 0.375 mg dut + 1.25 mg fin, which would roughly equal to the effect of 0.5 mg dut. In the next months, I plan to quit finasteride completely, but I still have 20 pills (=80 days), so it would be unreasonable to throw it into a scrap basket. 
> 
> On my example, you can see that finasteride is completely ineffective in some men. The reason obviously lies in the large standard deviation of DHT suppression, as this graph demonstrates:
> 
> 
> 
> The average is more or less the same in all studies (-70% DHT), but some guys can experience -90% suppression, while others less than -50%. On sufficiently high dutasteride doses, these differences quickly disappear. Therefore, I keep telling young people: Don't waste your time with finasteride. It was a breakthrough at its time, but now it is an outdated drug. There is no rational reason, why you should start finasteride as the first treatment.
> ...


  First off no one said anything about "_ poisonous_" save your counterpart  Patiently Waiting. I said it was _unwise_ to mix the taking of two oral DHT inhibitor where both have in some cases a variety of sexual side effects that come with them. That's it. *It was unwise to do so  based on logical and reasoned common sense choices.* That's my opinion here.

Now as to your other statement about Finasteride being an outdated 20 year drug whose time has past is a subjective opinion of your own that you are trying to import to others as a fact. That is patently false as a general statement that is made as if you were an expert in the field. 

That is your opinion like my own which you are free to have based on your own subjective experiences but it is hardly a known fact. Scientific clinical trials would beg to differ with you in terms of evidence showing that Finasteride still after 20 years has a lot of mileage to go in terms of  it positive hair regrowth in men over all of that time. 

And it still is one of the most widely prescribed or generically distributed DHT inhibitors to this day. It would not be if the majority of bald men so no results whatsoever.

 It would have failed in the first 5 years of its introduction or less in the market had it not shown tested and proven results over a period of time and not been around for as long as it has so far.

* It has worked and continues to work for others here on this forum board.* 

And you also would just mention like Patiently Waiting you are actively now using *both and taking both in your systems right now*.  It has worked for me and reversed out a considerable area of baldness after 10 months and I am looking to see what it does past 10 months and into a year and past that hopefully. If it doesn't I can wean myself off of Finasteride and start Dutasteride safely which is what I am promoting here. Cycling off of one drug safely before starting the next one. Period.

*So if  Fin were that useless in efficacy then why are you both still taking it in combination with Dutasteride right now ?* That makes no sense as you would just be taking Dutasteride followed with whatever regimen of topical you might use in concert with that. Your actions contradict your use of charts and your previously made statements.... negating them actually.
If there was a total confidence on your part in Dutasteride alone as the goto drug  and that Fin was a waste of time then neither of you would still be taking Finasteride today mixing any dosages and you would just be on Dutasteride.  From what you are saying then you are both throwing money away on one product while the other is producing your gains and results.

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## ChrisM

Video of propecia's results over time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y2KkO9ILOw


Clinical studies information


the chart can be seen here

http://www.*****************/hair-los...ride-doses.pdf

Clinical studies on the effects of oral finasteride, a type 11 5(x-reductase inhibitor, on scalp hair in men with male pattern baldness 
Introduction  
Ever since the clinical observations of James Hamilton over fifty years ago, investigators have sought the identification of the specific androgens responsible for the development of male pattern baldness (Androgenetic Alopecia). In 1974, the description of men with genetic deficiency of type II 5a-reductase shed further light on this issue. These men were found to have low serum dihydrotestosterone, normal or slightly elevated serum testosterone, and no prostate enlargement or male pattern baldness. This led to the search for 5a-reductase inhibitors as potential pharmacologic agents for treatment of disease in man.  
Clinical studies Finasteride, an orally-active type 11 5a-reductase inhibitor, was the first such agent developed for clinical use in man. Clinical trials conducted for the treatment of men with benign prostatic hyperplasia established the excellent safety profile of this compound. Studies were subsequently initiated for the treatment of men with male pattern baldness. Concurrently, finasteride administration was shown to result in increased hair growth in the stumptail macaque, and to lower scalp skin dihydrotestosterone in balding men. We conducted two separate, placebo-controlled clinical trials to evaluate the safety and efficacy of finasteride in men age 18 to 35 years old with Hamilton classification III vertex and IV male pattern baldness. Finasteride 5 mg/day or placebo was administered orally for 12 months in one study, while finasteride 1 mg, 0.2 mg, or 0.01 mg/day or placebo was administered for 6 months in a second study.   
Materials and methods  
Objective improvement in hair growth in men with male pattern baldness was determined by analysis of haircounts from macrophotographs taken of a 1 

inch diameter circle (5.1 cm) of scalp hair centered at the leading edge of the vertex bald spot.- Subjective improvement was determined by analysis of: 1) a self-administered patient hair growth questionnaire (HGQ); 2) investigator clinical assessment (ICA) of hair growth; and 3) assessment of global photographs (GPA) by a panel of expert dermatologists.   
Results  
Table 1 summarizes the results of these studies.

 Patients treated with finasteride at 5 mg, 1 mg or 0.2 mg/day showed improvement in hair growth at 6 months (M6) or at 12 months (M12), while treatment with 0.01 mg/day was similar to the placebo. Serum dihydrotestosterone (DHT) was reduced to castrate levels in patients receiving finasteride at 5 mg, 1 mg or 0.2 mg/day, while serum testosterone (T) remained in the normal range. No significant safety issues were identified in patients receiving finasteride at any dose.   

Conclusions  
In these studies, oral treatment with finasteride at doses from 0.2 to 5mg/day resulted in clinically significant improvement in hair growth in men with male pattern baldness. These studies are currently ongoing at the 1mg dose of finasteride to obtain longer-term data.

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## mark-1

So inhousepharmacy is legit?

Which of the 3 alternatives of avodart would you recommend? I can't really afford the most expensive one.

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## ChrisM

> So inhousepharmacy is legit?
> 
> Which of the 3 alternatives of avodart would you recommend? I can't really afford the most expensive one.


  A one month supply 30 pills of Avodart where I am buying my Finasteride currently is about 39.95 USD (dollars) so forty dollars plus tax . Two months is going to be about slightly over 80 dollars and up from there.  Dutasteride is about as cost effective as I have seen most medications that are generics or prescription based.

 Hell... when I started Minoxidil when it first hit the scene in the early to mid 
1990's  Upjohn sold an aerosol can probably with 12 fluid ounces or less for over  60 dollars closer to 70. 

Now that was expensive! And the aerosol can barely got you through the month!

 And it wasn't even the Minoxidil concentration we have today where you can get  the  5 percent foam or liquid now . The Minoxidil then was probably barely two percent.

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## BigThinker

> I don't see any reason, why the combination of fin and dut should be "poisonous". I only think that it is unnecessary. I have been on this combination for 11 weeks already, because it turned out that finasteride did NOTHING in me (well, except incessant shedding). In fact, it was an utter joke, as for the suppression of my DHT levels.


 This is my biggest fear.  I've been shedding like fkn crazy lately, and whether I get my hair stabilized is to be determined.

How long did you wait before you decided fin wasn't doing anything?

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## Shan

> This is my biggest fear.  I've been shedding like fkn crazy lately, and whether I get my hair stabilized is to be determined.
> 
> How long did you wait before you decided fin wasn't doing anything?


 You should give Fin at least a year

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## PatientlyWaiting

> So inhousepharmacy is legit?
> 
> Which of the 3 alternatives of avodart would you recommend? I can't really afford the most expensive one.


 Before I purchased Dutagen, I googled their manufacturer Ranbaxy, from a quick glance at their website and clicking trough it, they seemed legit to me. They are a huge billion dollar Indian pharmaceutical company, no reason to think their Dutasteride are illegitimate. Their Dutasteride is the cheapest in inhouse so I got theirs because I could not afford Dr Reddy's or GSK [manufacturer for Avodart] for a full year.

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## WarLord

> This is my biggest fear.  I've been shedding like fkn crazy lately, and whether I get my hair stabilized is to be determined.
> 
> How long did you wait before you decided fin wasn't doing anything?


 The timeline of my ordeal with finasteride is as follows:

*26th June 2012* - started fin, 1 mg/day
*Early August 2012* - an explosive regrowth along my hairline; big joy! 
*September/October 2012* - regrowth suddenly stopped; nothing to report
*Late October 2012 - March 2013* - my hairline in temples is hit very brutally; losses, losses, losses. After 3 months, my left temple was borderline transparent to the depth of 1-1,5 cm. I felt like a medieval martyr.
*Late November 2012* - I increased my fin dosage to 1.25 mg/day, but without any effect
*December-January 2012* - Blood tests betray that my DHT is not as suppressed as one would expect in the average finasteride user (25-32 ng/dl). In other words, fin apparently doesn't work in me properly. I realized that the summer regrowth may have been due to the concurrent use of SARMs that I was taking during July-August. There still exists the possibility that my shed is only temporary, but perhaps, the quitting of SARMs may have caused some adverse hormonal reaction???
*9th February 2013* - I couldn't handle the incessant losses anymore and added dutasteride, starting on 0.5 mg every 4th day
*March 2013* - hairloss in temples finally slowed down
*Mid-April 2013* - hair in temples stabilized, but still nothing remarkable to report with regard to regrowth (although one small area of my left temple largely regrew almost overnight). Some parts of my temples have thinned to such a degree that I can't imagine that they would fully regrow back, but I will see. 

My DHT was 17.7 ng/dl on 11th April, after 3 weeks on fin+0.25 mg dut/day. This shows that I am on the right track! I must get the DHT down to 10 ng/dl in the following weeks.

Currently I take 1.25 mg fin/day + 0.375 mg dut/day (3 capsules every 4 days). This dosage should roughly equal to 0.5 mg dut/day.

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## Dannyfire

I have just started taking 1mg of Propecia a day, if i was to add 0.5mg of Dustasride to my regime would this be daily or every 4 days?

And out of the 3
Dutagen
Dutas
Avodart

Which one should i buy? They look the same but are differenct prices?

Thanks alot.

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## WarLord

> I have just started taking 1mg of Propecia a day, if i was to add 0.5mg of Dustasride to my regime would this be daily or every 4 days?
> 
> And out of the 3
> Dutagen
> Dutas
> Avodart
> 
> Which one should i buy? They look the same but are differenct prices?
> 
> Thanks alot.


 In theory, it shouldn't matter. Here you can see DHT levels after a single dose of dutasteride (GI198745). 




And here you have another study, testing various doses, in various intervals, including 2.5 mg dut/week:




Based on these data, I think that dosing once in 3-4 days should be fine. Using once a week can already produce some fluctuations, although they are still very small. Look at the variance in DHT levels in finasteride!

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## Dannyfire

Thanks alot for the reply mate, im thinking of ordering Dutagen and taking one 0.5mg tablet every 3-4 days is the ok or would you recommend Avodart instead?

Also shoukd i get some Retin A cream? Thanks

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## WarLord

> Thanks alot for the reply mate, im thinking of ordering Dutagen and taking one 0.5mg tablet every 3-4 days is the ok or would you recommend Avodart instead?
> 
> Also shoukd i get some Retin A cream? Thanks


 You can't get a recipe for Avodart? I wouldn't trust internet pharmacies.

Rather, I order it from China. I plan to buy about 5 grams of dutasteride powder from a Chinese supplier. I will quickly know from my blood profile, if it is legit. I think that I will need higher dosages than 0.5 mg/day to achieve my goals.

If you were not satisfied with the results, you can add minoxidil, but it is a life-long commitment.

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## Woodyy

Just ordered some Dr Reddy's Dutas from InHouse, I'm just going to take the kitchen sink approach to this thing now, I don't even care.

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## BigThinker

> Just ordered some Dr Reddy's Dutas from InHouse, I'm just going to take the kitchen sink approach to this thing now, I don't even care.


 Keep us posted.  I've been thinking the same thing increasingly as each day passes.

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## Woodyy

> Keep us posted.  I've been thinking the same thing increasingly as each day passes.


 Will do. 2 questions for anyone that can help:

1. Considering I'm on finasteride at the moment (which didn't cause me a shed) moving onto dut is less likely to cause me a shed compared to if I'd gone straight on dut right? I mean my DHT levels are only going to drop another 20/30% or so and so I hope I should be alright.

2. Looking at the graphs there doesn't seem to be much benefit on taking Dut every day, would taking it EOD or MWF be almost as effective?

Cheers brahs.

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## Soxfaninfl

> That does it.
> 
> Explain what is going in here then. 
> 
> Click the picture to see larger version: 
> 
> Before pic: March 29th, 2013.
> 
> After pic: Today [4/26].
> ...


 Nice results PatientlyWaiting! I look forward to seeing your results in the coming months. Keep us posted.

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## JimmyJones

> That does it.
> 
> Explain what is going in here then. 
> 
> Click the picture to see larger version: 
> 
> Before pic: March 29th, 2013.
> 
> After pic: Today [4/26].
> ...


 I guess that just means you are very lucky. I think ChrisM's comments were generalising but every one is different and every man's body will react differently to medicines. So you are fortunate that it impacts so quickly, others probably won't be so fortunate. But take an average of people like you and people who see results in 1 year and then you have the middle line which is what gains are measured by, usually.

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## JimmyJones

> You can't get a recipe for Avodart? I wouldn't trust internet pharmacies.
> 
> Rather, I order it from China. I plan to buy about 5 grams of dutasteride powder from a Chinese supplier. I will quickly know from my blood profile, if it is legit. I think that I will need higher dosages than 0.5 mg/day to achieve my goals.
> 
> If you were not satisfied with the results, you can add minoxidil, but it is a life-long commitment.


 Wouldn't trust internet pharmacies but you will trust buying powder from China? Could be Rhino horn or ground up tiger balls. How do you check your blood profile? and you can check your blood profile even if you buy form internet pharmacies to see if it's legit. Of course unless it's much cheaper form China. Would be helpful if you have somewhere you can get this powder form to share with the rest of us..  :Smile:

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## WarLord

> Wouldn't trust internet pharmacies but you will trust buying powder from China? Could be Rhino horn or ground up tiger balls. How do you check your blood profile? and you can check your blood profile even if you buy form internet pharmacies to see if it's legit. Of course unless it's much cheaper form China. Would be helpful if you have somewhere you can get this powder form to share with the rest of us..


 I choose suppliers very carefully. It takes several weeks, until I make my final decision. And so far I have never been scammed. Actually, last time, when I ordered some powder from China, it was seized by customs. They did a lab test and the powder contained exactly the stuff that I had ordered  :Smile:  (The darker side of this story is that subsequently they destroyed it, I lost 300 USD and had to pay a penalty in addition :P )

I must laugh, when I see that people order from internet "pharmacies" for outrageous prices - 10-20 times higher than from China. For your information: I just ordered 5 grams of dutasteride powder for 220 USD including shipping. This equals to 0.022 USD for 0.5 mg. In an internet "pharmacy", you can buy it for 0.50-1.00 USD at best.  :Big Grin:  The funniest thing is that even Avodart from my local pharmacy is cheaper than most of these internet "generic dutasterides".

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## JimmyJones

> I choose suppliers very carefully. It takes several weeks, until I make my final decision. And so far I have never been scammed. Actually, last time, when I ordered some powder from China, it was seized by customs. They did a lab test and the powder contained exactly the stuff that I had ordered  (The darker side of this story is that subsequently they destroyed it, I lost 300 USD and had to pay a penalty in addition :P )
> 
> I must laugh, when I see that people order from internet "pharmacies" for outrageous prices - 10-20 times higher than from China. For your information: I just ordered 5 grams of dutasteride powder for 220 USD including shipping. This equals to 0.022 USD for 0.5 mg. In an internet "pharmacy", you can buy it for 0.50-1.00 USD at best.  The funniest thing is that even Avodart from my local pharmacy is cheaper than most of these internet "generic dutasterides".


 How do you use the powder then? New to that idea - just wash it down like?  :Confused:  but then like you say, the risk can be great ordering 'white powder' from abroad. And if you take into account the 300 + penalty you lost that's 520 USD for 5 grams..  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
Problem also with local pharmacies is needing a prescription.

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## WarLord

> How do you use the powder then? New to that idea - just wash it down like?  but then like you say, the risk can be great ordering 'white powder' from abroad. And if you take into account the 300 + penalty you lost that's 520 USD for 5 grams.. 
> Problem also with local pharmacies is needing a prescription.


 It was a different stuff, not dutasteride. I was too bold (not bald  :Smile:  ) I ordered 100 grams at once, which was stupid. The customs suspected that it was narcotics  :Smile: 

Before, I had no problems with 10-50 grams of any powder. But if I am on some "black list" now, then they will check all my parcels. Therefore, I am really thrilled, if the dutasteride goes through. 

I reckon with that I will either mix it in alcohol or that I will make 1 mg capsules. Of course, regular blood tests in 3-4 weeks' intervals will be necessary to verify, if it is legit. Currently I take 0.375 mg dut/day + 1.25 mg fin/day. I plan to go up to 1 mg dut/day and quit fin completely. 

The Chinese company has been on the internet market for 4+ years and it is verified by the staff of Alibaba.com. The length of the stay on the market is the most important thing, if you want to judge their credibility.

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## JimmyJones

> It was a different stuff, not dutasteride. I was too bold (not bald  ) I ordered 100 grams at once, which was stupid. The customs suspected that it was narcotics 
> 
> Before, I had no problems with 10-50 grams of any powder. But if I am on some "black list" now, then they will check all my parcels. Therefore, I am really thrilled, if the dutasteride goes through. 
> 
> I reckon with that I will either mix it in alcohol or that I will make 1 mg capsules. Of course, regular blood tests in 3-4 weeks' intervals will be necessary to verify, if it is legit. Currently I take 0.375 mg dut/day + 1.25 mg fin/day. I plan to go up to 1 mg dut/day and quit fin completely. 
> 
> The Chinese company has been on the internet market for 4+ years and it is verified by the staff of Alibaba.com. The length of the stay on the market is the most important thing, if you want to judge their credibility.


 Ok, interesting. That means sinking some spirit (vodka?) each time though - not so good on your liver long term  :Big Grin:  How the hell you gonna have blood tests each month?

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## 25 going on 65

> The funniest thing is that even Avodart from my local pharmacy is cheaper than most of these internet "generic dutasterides".


 How is this unless insurance will cover it? All the pharms around here seem to carry it for around $400 (3 month supply)
I am in USA BTW.

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## WarLord

> How is this unless insurance will cover it? All the pharms around here seem to carry it for around $400 (3 month supply)
> I am in USA BTW.


 I am from Europe. I don't understand it, but the usual price for 90 capsules in a pharmacy is ca. 100 USD. I found a certain pharmacy that sells it for 46 USD. I don't know, why they have it so cheap. I have it on prescription, but still, it seems that normally I would have to pay the whole 100 USD.

P.S.: It seems that I will have more dutasteride than I need. The Chinese company sent me 10 grams instead of 5 grams "by mistake". Now I have a problem, because I won't use such an amount. I would have to pay additional money, or send it back to China. 

But if it goes through customs, I could sell it to someone here, who is from EU. So if you are interested, you can send me a private message. But I will do blood tests at first to check, if it is legit.

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## WarLord

> Ok, interesting. That means sinking some spirit (vodka?) each time though - not so good on your liver long term  How the hell you gonna have blood tests each month?


 The method of use actually worries me. I just found a discussion on some internet forum, where some man failed to fully dissolve 500 mg dutasteride in 100 ml vodka (40&#37; ethanol). This is 5 mg on 1 ml vodka (or 12,5 mg on 1 ml of ethanol in it). At the same time, 44 mg dutasteride should dissolve in 1 ml of ethanol. 

I would like to mix only 0.5-1 mg per 1 ml. I like accuracy of dosing  :Smile:  I would prefer capsules, but if it fails, then I will probably have to buy pure ethanol. 

But all these speculations are still premature. 10 grams of powder won't escape Roentgen rays, and it will depend on customs, if they let it go.

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## 25 going on 65

> I am from Europe. I don't understand it, but the usual price for 90 capsules in a pharmacy is ca. 100 USD. I found a certain pharmacy that sells it for 46 USD.


 That is for brand name Avodart?? rx medicine is so expensive here.

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## WarLord

> That is for brand name Avodart?? rx medicine is so expensive here.


 Yes. Genuine Avodart. It is the only 5-AR blocker that is doing something for me. Fin was ridiculous.

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## Dan26

markin dis thread!

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