# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments >  Finasteride 0.25 mg twice per week. Works for me.

## Loomings

Greetings all,

This is my first post on this forum after months of lurking and doing my research.

I decided to take the Propecia Plunge after weighing up a number of things:

- Lack of hard scientific evidence on serious risks associated with taking this drug (all research seems to indicate a small subset of men having problems- Negative views on Propecia seem mostly anecdotal).

- Erwig study flawed in my view. Biased sample from Propecia Help, research conducted via phone interviews.

- Propecia has been on the market since 1997(?). That's a long time. I must say that conflicts of interest between medicine and profit are a concern of mine. When there is a lot of money to be made, things can be distorted (how does Mercke justify price difference between Proscar and Propecia? Blatant price gouging and it's insulting to the consumer). However, most arguments against Propecia seem to be ad hom/ancedotal at this stage. John Crisler does not do the cause against Propecia use any favours.

- I've weighed up quality of life Risks vs Benefits. My balding was effecting my quality of life. I've been depressed about it, obsessively checking for signs of hairloss progression, constantly comparing my hairline to other guys, starting to resent the Full Head of Hair on display from other men (smug bastards!). This is no way to live. In the opinion of many, I'm a very good looking guy (i'd say a 9 out of 10) and I have plenty of reason to maintain this advantage in life. I'm currently in a well paid job, successful with women, easily make friends, am looked up to by many as a leader etc. 
However vain/arrogant this may sound, I think it is an important point to make in my decision to tackle my baldness.

Despite the above points, there are enough people reporting side effects that I decided to be prudent and start on 0.25mgs of Propecia (non-generic) every Thursday and Sunday morning- Just to see what would happen, and expecting no results.

I have taken 2 doses of 0.25mgs to date- and am due for my 3rd tomorrow morning.

My baldness is more frontal- early stages. Thinning in front half of head, receding hairline. The crown is also getting more exposed. I am 25 years old. My hair is very dark brown and I have quite pale skin, so thinning is more visible with this combination of my natural pigments. 

I think it's been about 2 years now knowing that my baldness was progressing, but I'd been hoping it would slow down. There have also been elements of being in denial about my fate. My indicator to my recession is a small mole close to my hairline. My indicator to my thinning was feeling the front half of my head versus the back half. Noticeable difference. Front half feels thinner, whispier, can feel the scalp more easily.

Now for the results of being a week in to 2X doses of 0.25 mg of Finasteride (taken Thursday morning and Sunday morning):

Amazing effects a week in- I have stopped losing hair. Previously I would run my hands through the front portion of my head and come up with 4 or 5 loose hairs consistently. Worse was in the shower when shampooing- Often 10 to 15 hairs in my hand at any one time. The hairs were very thin and miniaturized. Worse still I was starting to get comments from girlfriend, friends, family about. I think that's when you know you're ****ed. 

A week into my treatment I can run my hands through the front of my hair and come up with 1 hair if I'm lucky. No only that, my hair feels/looks thicker and healthier. I am aware that this speed of efficacy is unusual and not typical for the majority of Finasteride users. Most users seem to count on results appearing 6-12 months into treatment.

I am already maintainig and thickening at the front (also unusual as Finasteride is meant to be less effective in the frontal region). My girlfriend of 2 years agrees and thinks my hair looks visibly better (and she speaks her mind, had no problem telling me my hair previously looked like shit, was constantly making bald jokes). 

My endocrine system is clearly very sensitive to this drug.

Now for the bad news. I am experiencing side effects. Not severe, but not mild either. Some are physical, some are psychological.

First the physical:

- My dick feels weird/ less sensitive. Slight twinges throughout the day around the knob. I'm getting those twinges in both my nuts too. Could be psychological (I've read a lot of stuff on testicle and penis atrophy on this drug- true or not, it's not a nice thing to read. I have a nice dick in terms of length and girth and I want to keep it that way. It is definitely one of my assets). 

- Erections are weaker. Could also be psychological. My erections are more transient than usual, however my erections have always been transient when I focus on them. I have suffered performance ED in the past with new partners when I worry about whether I can get hard or not. 
That being said, I am still masturbating every night (Girlfriend and I don't have sex that often these days- I'd lost a bit of sexual interest in her prior to taking this drug). Had a massive wank session last night, so I am inclined more towards thinking my mild ED is psychological. I am the type of guy who can psych myself out of erections easily.

Now for the psychological:

- General malaise, bit anxious, bit more depressed, bit less focused. I work as a recruitement consultant so changes in my mental faculties are easy to measure. I'm making more spelling errors in emails, bit more forgetful, bit less talkative and witty in the office, loss of energy.

SIDE NOTE ABOUT MY WORKPLACE: several people in the office have asked if I've had a haircut. I haven't, my hair just looks better. How about that? 

Back to the side effects. I am naturally inclined to anxiety and depression. I can be moody from time to time, but I definitely feel less emotionally settled at the moment. It could be because I am very worried about the effect this drug might be having on other things aside my hair (androgens, penile function, prostate, neurosteroids). The jury still seems to be out on this stuff in the medical world.

Because I have responded to Finasteride so quickly, I think it is safe to assume that I am very sensitive to this drug, and probably do not need to increase my dose. 

My original treatment plan was to eventually work my way up to 0.5mg every other day. I don't think that's necessary for the moment.

What are your thoughts guys? I know there are a lot of very intelligent people on this forum and I would like the input of anyone who finds my unusal experience with Finasteride interesting.

For the moment, I am undecided if the benefits outweigh the risks. I would say I am leaning towards continuing with this drug for the time being. I am due for my third dose of 0.25mg tomorrow.

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## mpb47

> Greetings all,
> 
> This is my first post on this forum after months of lurking and doing my research.
> 
> I decided to take the Propecia Plunge after weighing up a number of things:
> 
> - Lack of hard scientific evidence on serious risks associated with taking this drug (all research seems to indicate a small subset of men having problems- Negative views on Propecia seem mostly anecdotal).
> 
> - Erwig study flawed in my view. Biased sample from Propecia Help, research conducted via phone interviews.
> ...


 I was doing the same 25 but every 2 weeks. But I had to take a PSA exam and fin messes up the tests so I backed off. I have another test in Jan so have until to start back. keep a it!

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## Loomings

Any sides? forgot to mention- I've noticed I lose my temper much more easily as well. Feel like having angry outburst  :Wink: 

Maybe due to extra testosterone?

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## skipstah70

Buddy, you must be a completly dellusional to think that 2 weeks or even 2 months on this drug is going to make a noticable positive difference in the look of your hair, or especially how anyone else is going to perceive it.  Does anybody even READ the experiences of others in here who have taken propecia??? I've taken this drug mostly on and sometimes with small breaks off of it for the better part of 13 years, and seriously.. with regards to the visible difference the drug is making to your hair in such a short period as 3 weeks time.. it's ridiculous.  If anything, what you will begin to notice when you build up enough of the drug in your system, is that you will start to shed more hair than normal (that's *lose* way more) .  This is a sign that the drug is working by encouraging the telogen hairs to shed, and stimulating the folicles to enter a new anagen stage of growth (this is a *good* sign). 

     I do believe it is possible to experience any sexual side effects much quicker than you will notice any benefit to your hair.. and I noticed mine within 2 weeks to a month, whereas my hair showed no real noticeable difference until about 4 to 5 months.  You may notice that your hair has what I call more "lift" or gets puffier at about a month though, and is less flat looking. This I believe is because the thicker shafts of hair are less eager to lay flat on your head.  Again, this is subtle and I don't think you see obvious benefits till several months in.  Get a camera, take pictures and document your experience objectively, don't ask others (gf) who are eager to please you if they think your hair looks any different or better (people aren't always objective, cameras are).  My experiences here were also with 1mg a day of finast, so I find it especially difficult to see how you are noticing anything with .25 mg as intermittent as 2 times a week.

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## skipstah70

After reading your post again, I see that you do think you are noticing some sexual side effects on that very small .25mg doseage you are taking.  As someone who completely believes that this drug does have a major negative impact on your dick (sensitivity, erectile problems, less ejaculate semen, lower libido), I'll tell you that if you are showing any problems this early on and on such a small dose, that is not a good sign.  My best advice, find out if this is real or in your head by taking a regular 1mg dose for two weeks to a month.. then you will know what you are really dealing with.  You will be able to sort out much better what is "in your head" and what isn't because the changes will be that much more dramatic. 

    My reasons personally for stopping use of the drug will come down to my inability to any longer deal with the negative side effects. They are very real for me.

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## Loomings

Skipstah, I made full acknowledgement that my experience on Finasteride is very unusual.  I can acknowledge that because I have read the experiences of many other users, and none seem to see results like mine.

Objectively, my hair has stopped falling out. There is no way I'm imagining that. I run my hand through the front of my hair and come up clean of loose hairs. Before Finasteride I would get a reliable 4 or 5 hairs.

My girlfriend, who is a straight shooter, will back this up. She's as surprised as I am.

At the very least Finasteride is already starting to maintain my hair. 

Trust me, I had zero expectations of this drug having any effect at 0.25mgs twice a week. The reason I started at this dose was to see if I could preempt side effects and stop using Finasteride before I risked permanent damage.

The surprising part was the immediate effect it has had on my hair. And I must correct you, I have only been on Finasteride for a week and have taken a total of 2X 0.25mg hits (Thursday morning and Sunday morning).

I have no agenda or reason to make this up. I'm extremely worried about negative effects of this drug, the unexpected surprise is how powerful it actually is in halting hair loss for me. 

What is clear is that everyone responds differently to this drug. I am glad I started on this low dose, because 1mg per day would definitely be overkill for me.

The only unfortunate part of this experience for me is that while it seems to be very effective on my hair, it does seem to be exerting a negative influence on my dick and brain.

If it persists and my body does not adjust to this drug in a way that is acceptable for my libido/ sense of well being, I will discontinue using it.

The being said, I felt much better today than I have since starting, although I am due for my next hit tomorrow morning.

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## skipstah70

'Your experience with the drug'?? What ****ing experience? You haven't even taken a milligram of the stuff over the course of 3 weeks yet!? LOL   Do you even know the basics about how this drug works in your body, judging by what you are saying, I know the answer is no.  Get real man.

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## Loomings

No need to be belittling. 

I do believe the jury is still out on the full mode of action of this drug.

Some people take one dose, and they swear it has messed them up for life.

Others like Spencer have been taking it for years with no issues.

Some people find their baldness accelerated on this drug and some grow breasts.

Nobody really knows why results vary.

I will state a simple truth: My hair has stopped falling out on a dose of 2X 0.25mgs of Finasteride in one week. My hair stopped falling out on the days between the first (Thursday morning) and second (Sunday morning) dose. I may not be thickening, but I am maintaining.

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## skipstah70

I'm not belittling you, I'm just stating a simple fact...  That don't know what you are talking about with regards to the drug.

As another point.  Have you ever considered the following (and I have NO idea exactly what is going on your life in this regard, but can guess quite accurately that you are fairly high stress and hair obsessed by details of your first post).  We all know that stress can be a major factor in hairloss as well.  There are many times in a persons life when extreme stress can cause hairloss in people with or without typical allopecia.  College exams, sickness or death of a loved one, physical trauma, *obsessive worrying*.  When you took that first .25mg pill you either consciously or unconsciously told yourself that.. "this will stop my hairloss", or something even simpler "now I'm dealing with this problem".  As an immediate effect, this could immediately lower your stress levels and hence ameliorate your hair loss.  I want to point out that this effect is very real, but has NOTHING to do with the actual taking of the drug.  It's the placebo effect of taking medication, which is something I think you may have overlooked.

The other point is, that you are dealing with a whole hormonal system in your body which works in phases that are impossible to manifest in physical appearance so quickly.  It's not just my opinion, it's medical science. If you do your research on this drug, you will understand exactly what I am saying.  This drug doesn't instantly work like magic, which is what you seem to be describing.

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## khan

Loomings, after reading your post, I think you might be setting yourself to believe you are getting sides. You stated in your post that you are experiecing mild issues, but you are doing fine on your own every night.

Try not to think too much about taking this drug. My sincere advice is to stay away from hairloss websited the first 6-12months of taking the drug. It will only make matter worse, you will be thinking of it 24/7.

As for the nut discomfort, you can do a simple search on bald truth forum. Most people get this early on, and it goes away. 

Whatever you decide it should be your decision. I am not telling you to take the drug or not take the drug. But just know that if you do decide to continue with the drug you are not helping yourself my over analyzing the situtation.

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## chrisis

> I'll tell you that if you are showing any problems this early on and on such a small dose, that is not a good sign.  My best advice, find out if this is real or in your head by taking a regular 1mg dose for two weeks to a month.. then you will know what you are really dealing with.  You will be able to sort out much better what is "in your head" and what isn't because the changes will be that much more dramatic.


 This is absolutely shocking advice. Do not take Propecia at all if you suffered sides on 0.25mg every few days. You were cautious and discovered it's not good for you, so back the heck away from it. Anything else would be sheer lunacy.

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## Loomings

Guys,

Thanks for your input.

Skipstah, I do not believe my hairloss is stress-related. I do have a stressful job, but my pattern is following that of my father's who is now totally bald (wheels fell off for him well and truly at 30). I have his genes. I can track his progression through photos.

Khan, thanks mate. My balls feel better today. I know how much libido/erections depends on psychology- Fearing sex is not sexy and it's a downward spiral.

Chrisis, I've followed your posts in the past with keen interest. I know you have had some serious problems with this drug. I take that very seriously hence my low dose regime. I agree that upping my dose to 1mg to test for more severe side effects is a bad idea. 


Have taken 3rd dose of 0.25mg this morning.

This is the first day where side effects seem to have abated. Pretty normal day, feel calm.....I would say I'm presently in a good mood.

Hair  looking, feeling better at the front. This is subjective.

Hair has stopped falling out. This is objective.

I know it sounds ridiculous, but Finasteride has taken effect very quickly in at leats halting my progression (thinning). At present (fingers crossed) I think starting this treatment was an excellent choice.

Had sex with my girlfriend last night and definitely lost a bit of wood mid-insertion from time to time, but ultimately got the job done to normal standards and she was happy. I think my loss of wood was purely psychological, and not a result of finasteride. I think the less I think about it, the better I'll perform (easier said than done).

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## chrisis

No worries Loomings. By all means continue if you think your sides may be related to psychological factors, but I'd stick at the dose you're at unless you're absolutely sure about moving up. I think at max you could get away with 0.25mg daily. I don't really see the benefit in anyone being at 1mg, because for the minor comparative difference, the risks of upping dose just aren't worth it.

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## mattj

I'm glad you feel that you're benefiting from the treatment already, although to be honest I doubt if your hair could actually look thicker at such an early stage. The reduction in hair fall is a good sign, though, and also very early.

The side effects could possibly be entirely psychological and I'm glad you're aware that this might be the case.  I'm by no means dismissive of the side effects related to this drug but it's genuinely possible to bring on side effects by thinking about them too much, or to imagine them, and this can happen to completely reasonable and intelligent people.

If the drug is causing side effects at such a low and infrequent dose then this could mean that you're especially sensitive to it so I would definitely advise against increasing the dose.

Good luck with it!

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## gutted

I beleive you can have such results in a short space.
I experienced something similar.

Im keen to follow your experience on fin.

Monitor your shed levels for the next 3/4 weeks VERY carefully, and i would be greatful if you could report back. Also how oily your current scalp and then after the 3/4 weeks.

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## Loomings

Gutted, I'm glad you think these fast results are possible.  My results seem to be totally counter to everything I have read about typical Finasteride results.

I'm really trying to avoid the Wishful Thinking trap. My goal is to gather as much truth about this drug as possible.

Not to hammer a point I have already made, but my total halting of further hairloss on this drug cannot be my imagination. I am constantly running my hand through my hair to see if I can pick up loose hairs.....I am coming up clean. It is almost too good to be true. I did not expect this. Especially as my balding is primarily frontal.

There is no question that since taking this drug I have stopped losing hair.

If I can maintain what I have now- I will be very happy and this drug will have been a success for me.

I am very wary about coming across as embellishing my results. I want to give as honest account of my experience as possible. If it goes downhill, I will be back to report immediately.

Fingers crossed about sides effects. Something I have noticed is that if I start thinking about them, then they seem to manifest. There is definitely a dangerous placebo paranoia associated with this for me. In between my first and second dose, I was positive I was a candidate for negative side effects.
Now- I am definitely more pragmatic. Definitely feel like there has been a change in my body, but it is becoming more elusive and I pretty sure there is a psychological component to it. If not, my body seems to be adjusting and taking it on board. 

What I can say is that my side effects are now mild enough to beg the question as to whether it is in my head or not.

Definite physical symptoms are still the odd twinge and discomfort in my ball sack. Things do feel different down there and I am not prepared to readily dismiss this as psychological, but I am trying to keep level-headed about that. I am expecting that discomfort in my genitals will start to subside.

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## gutted

> Gutted, I'm glad you think these fast results are possible.  My results seem to be totally counter to everything I have read about typical Finasteride results.
> 
> I'm really trying to avoid the Wishful Thinking trap. My goal is to gather as much truth about this drug as possible.
> 
> Not to hammer a point I have already made, but my total halting of further hairloss on this drug cannot be my imagination. I am constantly running my hand through my hair to see if I can pick up loose hairs.....I am coming up clean. It is almost too good to be true. I did not expect this. Especially as my balding is primarily frontal.
> 
> There is no question that since taking this drug I have stopped losing hair.
> 
> If I can maintain what I have now- I will be very happy and this drug will have been a success for me.
> ...


 Its very possible to note a total stop, i remember experincing the same. 
The hairs felt more tightley anchored to the scalp too. So i belive its very possible and you are experiencing the same.
And IMO most fin users experience the same but dont have the observational awareness neccassary to perceieve such benefits as either, they are "taught" results are not expected for another 6/12 months hence dont pay attention OR they have short hair so this effect becomes difficult to note.

The question is will this effect remain forever?...imo i doubt it will last, and the point at which this drug causes increases in hair shedding, i expect it to be at the 3rd/4th week, hence why im asking you to pay very close attention in the upcoming weeks.

hope it works out, keep us updated.

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## Loomings

Gutted- Interestingly, you have described exactly what's happening in terms of hairs feeling more tightly anchored to my scalp.

I'd really like to escape a dramatic shed (even though I know it means the drug is probably working).

I've read a few horror stories about guys who just keep shedding (even for 8-10 months). Seems like coping with the shed requires a lot of discipline, especially if it persists for months.

How did your shedding phase go? How did you cope with it.

I still have a lot of hair and can cope with a bit of shedding, but if I can keep my hair exactly where it's at now I'd be thrilled.

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## gutted

> Gutted- Interestingly, you have described exactly what's happening in terms of hairs feeling more tightly anchored to my scalp.
> 
> I'd really like to escape a dramatic shed (even though I know it means the drug is probably working).
> 
> I've read a few horror stories about guys who just keep shedding (even for 8-10 months). Seems like coping with the shed requires a lot of discipline, especially if it persists for months.
> 
> How did your shedding phase go? How did you cope with it.
> 
> I still have a lot of hair and can cope with a bit of shedding, but if I can keep my hair exactly where it's at now I'd be thrilled.


 I never took fin, although i took some dht blockers which IMO were potent enough to mimic fin for me anyway.

Yes i noted the exact same effects as you almost within 1/2weeks of starting
- an undoubtable, MAJOR reduction in hairs that would fall out
- Hair much much more anchored to the scalp

This was short lived though and by the 4th week, i eventually started to shed very badly but did stick with it until the 4/5 months, when i eventually decided to stop, as i got some sides, and the sheds(or hair loss) was still continuing.

I say "hair loss" as i suspected "reflex hyperandorgencity" to occur, i dont know if you are aware of what this is? googling it should bring you up to scratch on it just for future referece.

You could be fine on propecia, the studies indicate it works for a significant amount of men so the statistics are on your side, but just keep an eye out on the sheds in the next few weeks, many men report them and some "claim" they are part of the treatment process.

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## Loomings

Thanks Gutted,

My research into reflex hyperandorgencity all seems to indicate that it is very rare.

I've found nothing to suggest that this is something I should count on happening.

One source called Dr Patel actually mentions that this condition seems to manifest more in people using alternate DHT blockers. 

Just a quick update on my hair. Have noticed a tiny bit of shed...but all the hairs that come out seem to be very short, stumpy and very thin. Not long ones. Maybe my scalp is ditching the crappy hairs to make way for more luxurious ones?

There is not much shedding at all though, very mild. In all hair still looks fuller, healthier and getting better all the time.

Update on sides- they have lessened. Still odd twitches and pangs in my testicles, but libido still there. If anything Fin is helping me last longer. Was going at it with my gf for 1.5 hours on the weekend. Lost wood a few times but not significant, got back into it quickly.

In all, side effects not noticeable enough for me to question much...yet.

Still very happy with obvious positive effect on my hair.

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## skipstah70

> This is absolutely shocking advice. Do not take Propecia at all if you suffered sides on 0.25mg every few days. You were cautious and discovered it's not good for you, so back the heck away from it. Anything else would be sheer lunacy.


 Oh, I know..   What SHOCKING advice... that I tell him to STFU and take the prescribed dosage for a short period to EVALUATE ACCURATELY ANY SIDE EFFECTS before coming to a forum and cawing about how taking only 3 doses of .25mg finasteride has cured his hair loss!!!!   Positively SHOCKING!!!! Isn't it even more shocking that the doctor gave him a prescription in the first place with the advised doseage of 1mg/day?  That's just shocking!!!

Really.... are you guys for real?  Do they even teach science and rational thinking in schools anymore?

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## Loomings

> Oh, I know..   What SHOCKING advice... that I tell him to STFU and take the prescribed dosage for a short period to EVALUATE ACCURATELY ANY SIDE EFFECTS before coming to a forum and cawing about how taking only 3 doses of .25mg finasteride has cured his hair loss!!!!   Positively SHOCKING!!!! Isn't it even more shocking that the doctor gave him a prescription in the first place with the advised doseage of 1mg/day?  That's just shocking!!!
> 
> Really.... are you guys for real?  Do they even teach science and rational thinking in schools anymore?


 You seem pretty certain on this drug's mode of action. You're doing better than most, if not all (Doctors included) in your understanding of this drug.

That's enough for me to call into question your motives for posting in my thread- Especially as your wording indicates to me you're having a bit of a tantrum.

It seems very apparent to me (and I'm not alone) there is still a lot we don't know about how this drug is effecting us- for better or worse. I'm inclined to think it is doing something negative to my genitals- but that's pure conjecture. 

Perhaps it upsets you that thus far I am experiencing very good results (touch wood). There is plenty of evidence to suggest that a one-size-fits-all 1mg dose is going to be too little for some, just right for others, and far too much for yet another proportion of users.

I suspect, without doing any tests, that my endocrine system is more finely balanced than most other users (would explain my naturally depressive tendancy, mood swings etc)- perhaps this is coupled with my hair being extremely sensitive to DHT and therefore being more responsive to its suppression- Again this is unqualified conjecture on my part. Put simply, I don't know why this is happening to me. I was hoping to find an answer here.

I care about my dick and my brain and I was prudent in my intial dose. I did not expect results from the current levels of Finasteride I am taking. The dose of 0.25mgs twice a week was purely to test for side effects.

I won't spend too much time trying to convince you otherwise. I will spend it enjoying my current results instead! 

The purpose of this post was to let other people who are considering a smaller dose know that 0.25mg twice a week has worked for me.

I will be posting immediately if things take a turn for the worse- and believe me, I'm prepared for that if/when it happens!

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## gutted

> Thanks Gutted,
> 
> My research into reflex hyperandorgencity all seems to indicate that it is very rare.
> 
> I've found nothing to suggest that this is something I should count on happening.
> 
> One source called Dr Patel actually mentions that this condition seems to manifest more in people using alternate DHT blockers. 
> 
> Just a quick update on my hair. Have noticed a tiny bit of shed...but all the hairs that come out seem to be very short, stumpy and very thin. Not long ones. Maybe my scalp is ditching the crappy hairs to make way for more luxurious ones?
> ...


 
glad to hear it loomings, hope the progress continues without any adverse sides. As for Reflex hyperandrogenicty, its possible it only occurs in a minority of people who take the drug and you will probably be fine on it. The fact that you are taking a lower dose than usuall may help alot to avoid this issue.

Keep us updated.

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## Jcm800

Gutted have you ever contemplated taking Finasteride?

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## gutted

> Gutted have you ever contemplated taking Finasteride?


 NEVER!!! 

IMO its a pointless drug. It doesnt work the way people think it works...
it alters your natrual hormonal balance (which takes time 1/2 years) and *IMO* makes you at increased risk of reaching advanced stages of mpb...not proven of course. 

Topical Fin/dut is probably a better option.

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## CurlyBird

I have been considering the same thing as Loomings. Not only to save money, but because 1/4mg is about 6/7 as effective as 1mg/5mg in terms of the dose-response curve. 

I too got side effects right away. My understanding lately has been that estrogen dominance leads to sexual side effects, and that inhibiting the aromatase enzyme may alleviate the side effects.

Henceforth, I have purchased 200 x 60mg zinc orotate and I think I am going to go for it. Arimidex would be my next option. I don't like the idea of taking multiple enzyme inhibitors but I don't like the idea of losing my hair either. Like at all.

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## chrisis

> I have been considering the same thing as Loomings. Not only to save money, but because 1/4mg is about 6/7 as effective as 1mg/5mg in terms of the dose-response curve. 
> 
> I too got side effects right away. My understanding lately has been that estrogen dominance leads to sexual side effects, and that inhibiting the aromatase enzyme may alleviate the side effects.
> 
> Henceforth, I have purchased 200 x 60mg zinc orotate and I think I am going to go for it. Arimidex would be my next option. I don't like the idea of taking multiple enzyme inhibitors but I don't like the idea of losing my hair either. Like at all.


 Curlybird can you let me know how you get on. I'd prefer email: 19chris83@gmail.com.

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## CurlyBird

> Curlybird can you let me know how you get on. I'd prefer email: 19chris83@gmail.com.


 I will probably post my results publicly. 

I have read a couple accounts that those with post-finasteride sexual side effects feel some relief by taking zinc. It is really quite cheap, I suggest you pick up a bottle of orotate and experiment.

As of right now, I am slowly weaning myself onto the Zinc. I haven't begun taking any finasteride yet.

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## Loomings

I've been taking 1X25mg dose of Zinc directly after each dose of 0.25mg of Fin.

Also, quick update- I appear to be starting a shed. However, all the hairs that are coming out are really fine and crappy. I don't appear to be losing density. Most noticeable shed when i shampoo- A lot of loose hairs in my hands after rubbing scalp (between 6-10 hairs). 

As for sides- I'm still getting odd pains/pangs in my testicles. Still masturbating heaps (3 times last Saturday) so no obvious effect on libido. Penis does feel a bit less sensitive- But could be all in my head though. The mind is indeed powerful.

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## chrisis

> I will probably post my results publicly. 
> 
> I have read a couple accounts that those with post-finasteride sexual side effects feel some relief by taking zinc. It is really quite cheap, I suggest you pick up a bottle of orotate and experiment.
> 
> As of right now, I am slowly weaning myself onto the Zinc. I haven't begun taking any finasteride yet.


 Fair enough. Any reason it needs to be orotate? Something to do with better absorption?

----------


## chrisis

Curlybird, could you also clarify how many mg you take? Is it 25? or 60?

----------


## CurlyBird

Ya orotate is supposedly better absorbed by the body as the molecule has a more neutral charge.

I think 60mg orotate = 10mg elemental zinc. Right now I am only taking 60mg orotate but plan to increase that. To what I am not yet sure, but I believe I will be taking as much as 240mg zinc orotate/day, which will be about 40mg elemental zinc per day. That is if there are not side effects from doing so. 

Also, I have some chelated copper as zinc and copper compete for absorption. But haven't started taking that yet.

----------


## chrisis

> Ya orotate is supposedly better absorbed by the body as the molecule has a more neutral charge.
> 
> I think 60mg orotate = 10mg elemental zinc. Right now I am only taking 60mg orotate but plan to increase that. To what I am not yet sure, but I believe I will be taking as much as 240mg zinc orotate/day, which will be about 40mg elemental zinc per day. That is if there are not side effects from doing so. 
> 
> Also, I have some chelated copper as zinc and copper compete for absorption. But haven't started taking that yet.


 Thanks I think I may copy  :Wink:  I had some success on zinc I think. Since I stopped I haven't felt as good.

----------


## thechamp

> Ya orotate is supposedly better absorbed by the body as the molecule has a more neutral charge.
> 
> I think 60mg orotate = 10mg elemental zinc. Right now I am only taking 60mg orotate but plan to increase that. To what I am not yet sure, but I believe I will be taking as much as 240mg zinc orotate/day, which will be about 40mg elemental zinc per day. That is if there are not side effects from doing so. 
> 
> Also, I have some chelated copper as zinc and copper compete for absorption. But haven't started taking that yet.


 Do you gain weight on propecia because of estrogen levels?

----------


## inspects

I been taking Propecia for six months now, prior to even taking the product I had no idea there were Hair Loss Forums, no idea of possible side effects of Propecia, my transplant doctor suggested I take the drug so I did. He also said to take a good multi vitamin and mineral supplement, so I purchased what I considered a good manufacturer of health products made by Usana.

After reading this thread I looked at the bottle ingredient which have 10 mg of Zinc Citrate in the Usana Chelated Mineral Supplement, along with the Usana Mega Antioxidant Supplements, which has everything from 7,600 IU Beta-Carotene to Chromium and 15 other mineral ingredients. I also take 10,000 mcg Biotin once daily.

I have no side effects whatsoever, possibly because I didn't know they existed, or I'm lucky. But I can relate to the OP thread, my hair loss stopped at an amazing rate after starting the Propecia at 1 mg from the beginning, and then daily. 

Since I didn't have any sides because I didn't know there was such a theory, I'm absolutely fine and plan on continuing the product not paying attention to all the people experiencing sides.

Hopefully this was just some information which could help others.

----------


## Jcm800

OP can we have an update on your progress please?, thanks.

----------


## inspects

I found this paragraph on a link within Wiki regarding Propecia interesting.




> Finasteride produces a rapid reduction in serum DHT concentration, reaching 65% suppression within 24 hours of oral dosing with a 1-mg tablet.


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finasteride

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsa...788s018lbl.pdf

----------


## thechamp

The lowest on it I tried is 1mg per week got weight gain, so I wanna try it's hard to cut but half a qauter tablet twice,a week and what supplments I could take to stop estrogen levels?

----------


## Jcm800

Loomings, how are you getting on dude?

----------


## Papillion

_Loomings, how are you getting on dude?_

Probably 'having a massive wanking session' again pmsl

Is this guy for real?


On a serious note, I think most of the stuff is in looming's head at this stage. I support the theory that sides and benefits come in time.
I've taken it for 10 years, you could say at the rate of loss I was having before taking it to rate of loss I had since, proves that it saves hair but how you'd qualify that as efficiency over time I have no idea. One thing is for sure, it took 8 years until the sides became apparent and I'm absolutely incredulous at the statistics given regarding likelihood of side effects. If the actions of the ever changing warning material is anything to go by (it seems to be changed regularly) then I'd take the alleged low chance of sides with a pinch of salt.

----------


## Loomings

Guys I have returned after 7 months with an update. Please find the photo attached.

----------


## Loomings

> Loomings, how are you getting on dude?


 Sorry for being so late getting back to you mate. For some reason I stopped getting email updates for new posts on this thread so I thought people had lost interest in my hairloss so I stopped checking in.

Please see my pic above.....hopefully you will agree that my propecia use has been effective for me. The before shot is about a month before starting propecia. The after shot was taken just now.

I have upped my dosage about 4 months ago and I now take 0.5mg of Fin twice a week (instead of 0.25mg). Sunday and Thursday mornings. I have been incredibly disciplined with this routine and have never missed a dose aside day when I was traveling in China and I forget to take a dose in the morning....so I took it in the afternoon. That's my only slip up thus far.

Propecia has been more effective on my middle and crown area. I would say it's maintained my front hairline with slight thickening at the very least, but definitely more effective at the back with a lot of visible regrowth as you can see.

Side effects. Hmmmmm. To be perfectly honest if they are there, they are not very obvious. I also smoke a lot of weed so that plays with libido, mood etc. All I can say is I still masturbate, and still have sex with as much effectiveness as I did before taking propecia. My ejaculatory volume appears to have decreased....maybe....but my cum isn't watery and still looks normal. Honestly, if i am slightly less horny these days then it's probably not such a bad thing. I am a borderline sex addict anyway so chasing women already takes up far too much of my time.

What I can sincerely say is that the trade off of hair v possible side effects was worth it. I am not nearly as worried about my hair these days and obsessing over my baldness was a completely shitty, depressing experience.

----------


## Shan

I'm glad you've had good results bro, keep it up

----------


## Jcm800

Cheers for the update, seeing progress there. Nice one.

----------


## Loomings

> Cheers for the update, seeing progress there. Nice one.


 Cheers. I think catching my baldness relatively early was key. Hopefully this proves that a lower dose is effective not just for maintaining, but re-growing too.

----------


## Jcm800

> Cheers. I think catching my baldness relatively early was key. Hopefully this proves that a lower dose is effective not just for maintaining, but re-growing too.


 Could be the key mate. I'm one of the older guys around here, 44 tomorrow, started losing around age 27 very very slowly luckily. Think even if I get on fin now it'd be too late.  
I have a lot or hair left tho, and even at this age/stage I care about my looks as I'm still looking good for my years. 

On the other hand may just be wiser to say screw it, had a good run and buzz it, dunno really.

----------


## ChrisM

> Could be the key mate. I'm one of the older guys around here, 44 tomorrow, started losing around age 27 very very slowly luckily. Think even if I get on fin now it'd be too late.  
> I have a lot or hair left tho, and even at this age/stage I care about my looks as I'm still looking good for my years. 
> 
> On the other hand may just be wiser to say screw it, had a good run and buzz it, dunno really.


  That depends man. Passing your thirties the testosterone level in your body reduces considerably thus the dihydrotestosterone conversion is lessened but by that  time a good deal of damage is already done. But it depends on  your Norwood scale of pattern baldness and what you plan of attack is. I am a NW5 and so far I am gradually reversing out my MPB over near 10 months on Finasteride with coverage returning to the front and crown of my head which were nearly see through bald with sparse peachfuzz hair coverage. Now this hair is darkening and thickening up so at this rate past a year and perhaps sailing onto Dutasteride next I will probably reverse my hair loss back to a NW3  or if I am lucky 2.5 on the scale which frankly would be a success story of epic proportions. The key though is whatever you try to maintain consistency.

----------


## Shan

> That depends man. Passing your thirties the testosterone level in your body reduces considerably thus the dihydrotestosterone conversion is lessened but by that  time a good deal of damage is already done. But it depends on  your Norwood scale of pattern baldness and what you plan of attack is. I am a NW5 and so far I am gradually reversing out my MPB over near 10 months on Finasteride with coverage returning to the front and crown of my head which were nearly see through bald with sparse peachfuzz hair coverage. Now this hair is darkening and thickening up so at this rate past a year and perhaps sailing onto Dutasteride next I will probably reverse my hair loss back to a NW3  or if I am lucky 2.5 on the scale which frankly would be a success story of epic proportions. The key though is whatever you try to maintain consistency.


 When will you start Dutasteride?

----------


## ChrisM

> When will you start Dutasteride?


 More likely in July after a year of gains on Finasteride and seeing responsiveness in the hair I have regained and grown back  but still that hair has grown back on my vertex and crown though darkened and grown past the vellus peach fuzz stage has still not caught up in thickness or in density of the hair that was unaffected by baldness in the receptors that  had no such DHT sensitivity.  That is why I am making that conscious decision to take it up a notch.

But I will also cycle out and wean myself off of Finasteride  in the month or two  previous to that so that my system is clear for the new drug to take effect and hopefully work its magic

----------


## Shan

If you have maximum results on Fin, then what can Dut do?
Can it take you to up another NW level.

----------


## ChrisM

Dutasteride is shown in clinical trials to be far more powerful that Finasteride. Whereas Finasteride blocks out and inhibits 75 percent of DHT and prevents the 5ar enzyme from doing its dirty work.

 Dutasteride blocks 95 percent of DHT and it blocks two types of the 5AR enzyme that contribute to DHT  both type I and II . Finasteride only engages type I and not II.  And therefore results on Dutasteride from those who have gone from Finasteride with marginal results and no side effects have been great to amazing in terms of hair coverage overall.

And that  makes all the difference. I  don't think that ten months has shown me the maximum results yet. But if it has then graduating to Dutasteride might make all the difference to raising the stakes of the fight.

----------


## Shan

Why is Dut then not FDA approved for hairloss?

----------


## ChrisM

> Why is Dut then not FDA approved for hairloss?


  I  really don't know to be honest with you.
 I grabbed this particular answer just now from yahoo and copied and pasted it here.



Best Answer - Chosen by Asker

Dutasteride is FDA approved for benign prostate hypertrophy or prostate enlargement problems. The reason why it is not yet approved by the FDA for male pattern hair loss (MPTL) is because it is still in its testing stages. However, there are already doctors who prescribe this medication, especially for those who have tried and failed with finasteride.

 Side effects of dutaseride include an increase in libido, but with a lowered sperm count. It is found to have a greater effect on the treatment of MPTL but of course, with more potent side effects.

 The dosage will depend on what your doctor will prescribe for you, if he deems that you need it. The length of taking it will also depend on your condition. It is best to check with your doctor on this.

 It is suggested to take finasteride first. If this does not work, then you can switch to dutasteride, but all with the advice and monitoring of your doctor.

----------


## chrisis

I wonder if they're unwilling to risk selling a stronger drug for male pattern baldness when there's already uncertainty about the safety of finasteride.

If they don't seek FDA approval for it but make it available off label, then the risk lies with the doctor and patient.

----------


## Shan

Thanks for answering bro

----------


## Loomings

I dunno why anyone would want to use DUT and further erode their prostate. You'd end up with a prostate the size of a shriveled sultana using that kinda stuff.

0.5mg of Fin twice a week is as much a compromise as I'm willing to make, and I already notice a change in my sex drive at this amount (although I do concede that being a bit less horny is actually kinda liberating).

Nevertheless I am keeping an eye on these lawsuits that are being filed against Mercke and seeing how they turn out. If the lawsuits start winning I will be reassessing....however it's likely Mercke will pull the drug if they start losing.

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

I don't know why so many people find it hard to believe that finasteride works so fast on slowing down/halting hair loss. I actually thought it was normal for hair loss to stop within a month since that's what always happened to me when I was on and off Propecia. It would be pretty noticeable and it was not stress related at all because stress related hair loss happens on the whole head, not in a receding hairline or horseshoe pattern.

----------


## WarLord

> This is absolutely shocking advice. Do not take Propecia at all if you suffered sides on 0.25mg every few days. You were cautious and discovered it's not good for you, so back the heck away from it. Anything else would be sheer lunacy.


 He has no sides. He is completely delusional.

----------


## WarLord

> More likely in July after a year of gains on Finasteride and seeing responsiveness in the hair I have regained and grown back  but still that hair has grown back on my vertex and crown though darkened and grown past the vellus peach fuzz stage has still not caught up in thickness or in density of the hair that was unaffected by baldness in the receptors that  had no such DHT sensitivity.  That is why I am making that conscious decision to take it up a notch.
> 
> But I will also cycle out and wean myself off of Finasteride  in the month or two  previous to that so that my system is clear for the new drug to take effect and hopefully work its magic


 What? You want to interrupt the use of finasteride for 1-2 months? Then allow me to say "Good bye!" to your hair.

----------


## Loomings

> He has no sides. He is completely delusional.


 How is anyone supposed to take seriously the comments of a supposed War Lord?

----------


## WarLord

> How is anyone supposed to take seriously the comments of a supposed War Lord?


 Your hair loss stopped after two doses of 0.25 mg fin, sure. I am sorry, but I can't take anything of what you write seriously. Not since the moment you have written this nonsense.

----------


## WarLord

> 0.5mg of Fin twice a week is as much a compromise as I'm willing to make...


 You can't be real. You came to this forum to make fun of us.

----------


## Loomings

> You can't be real. You came to this forum to make fun of us.


 Hopefully the photos I have posted showing my progress over the passed 7 months demonstrates that my modest dose of 0.5mg twice a week works (at least in the crown area, can't see much effect at the front unfortunately).

I'm not interested in making fun of people here as the prospect of baldness has been one of the most distressing things i have faced in my life so far. So chill out Kojak, we're all brothers here.

----------


## WarLord

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

----------


## WarLord

> Hopefully the photos I have posted showing my progress over the passed 7 months demonstrates that my modest dose of 0.5mg twice a week works (at least in the crown area, can't see much effect at the front unfortunately).
> 
> I'm not interested in making fun of people here as the prospect of baldness has been one of the most distressing things i have faced in my life so far. So chill out Kojak, we're all brothers here.


 Then go to a specialist. They will list you in medical literature as a genetic freak. 

I don't believe that 0.5 mg twice weekly could do anything significant. Your posts indicate that you seriously delusional.

You should post your DHT levels, by the way.

----------


## Loomings

................

----------


## Loomings

> Then go to a specialist. They will list you in medical literature as a genetic freak. 
> 
> I don't believe that 0.5 mg twice weekly could do anything significant. Your posts indicate that you seriously delusional.
> 
> You should post your DHT levels, by the way.


 How do you explain the visibly shrunken crown i have achieved in the past 7 months? surely that warrants some merit as proof this dose has made a difference.

2 other members have posted in agreement that there is visible progress. 

You should be happy with this result and adopt my dose Warlord. 1mg of Fin a week instead of 7mg will save you a heap of cash. You're welcome.

----------


## WarLord

> How do you explain the visibly shrunken crown i have achieved in the past 7 months? surely that warrants some merit as proof this dose has made a difference.
> 
> 2 other members have posted in agreement that there is visible progress.


 I see a head full of hair and no visible signs of hairloss.

----------


## Loomings

> I see a head full of hair and no visible signs of hairloss.


 There's no disputing the first photo and the skunk strip of thinning hair striped across the top of my head.

----------


## drybone

> Hopefully the photos I have posted showing my progress over the passed 7 months demonstrates that my modest dose of 0.5mg twice a week works (at least in the crown area, can't see much effect at the front unfortunately).
> 
> I'm not interested in making fun of people here as the prospect of baldness has been one of the most distressing things i have faced in my life so far. So chill out Kojak, we're all brothers here.


 Are you sure it isnt 5mg twice a week? I am taking 5mg pills and chop them into 4 and take a piece daily. This would mean you taking almost exactly what I am. 

.5mg seems pretty darn low to me. Perhaps you misread it.

----------


## Loomings

> Are you sure it isnt 5mg twice a week? I am taking 5mg pills and chop them into 4 and take a piece daily. This would mean you taking almost exactly what I am. 
> 
> .5mg seems pretty darn low to me. Perhaps you misread it.


 It sounds like you take Proscar.

I take Propecia which is a 1mg pill. I bought a month's supply (28 pills) and funnily enough I am still on my first pack....although I'm now down to my last pill. I'm about ready to buy my second ever packet of Propecia (which in Australia is about 100 bucks a pack).

----------


## Jcm800

Loomings, how's it going? How's progress?

----------


## UK_

> Any sides? forgot to mention- I've noticed I lose my temper much more easily as well. Feel like having angry outburst 
> 
> Maybe due to extra testosterone?


 The excess in testosterone is expected, your HTPA system is compensating for the reduction in DHT with extra testosterone.

I dont want to scare you, but this string of drug induced messages associated with the HTPA system is often what sets off the endocrinal 'crash' when coming off the drug, your body has nothing to do with the extra testosterone but to convert it into estrogen which usually results in the feminising effects of the drug.  Now if you were to take an estrogen blocker you'd just end up with high endogenous levels of testosterone which could damage your liver - the fact that your testosterone levels are consistently high due to the effects of this drug is what sometimes causes a total shutdown of endogenous testosterone production when coming off the drug, setting you up for a lifetime of hypogonadism.

I also wouldn't trust the 2&#37; side effects statistic being that Merck also stated that _"DHT does not have much use in the male body"_ - I have been rolf'ing at that for a few years now.

DHT is one of the most important male hormones, the very fact that it determined your gender when you were in a foetal state should indicate that.

Good luck.

----------


## WarLord

> The excess in testosterone is expected, your HTPA system is compensating for the reduction in DHT with extra testosterone.
> 
> I dont want to scare you, but this string of drug induced messages associated with the HTPA system is often what sets off the endocrinal 'crash' when coming off the drug, your body has nothing to do with the extra testosterone but to convert it into estrogen which usually results in the feminising effects of the drug.  Now if you were to take an estrogen blocker you'd just end up with high endogenous levels of testosterone which could damage your liver - the fact that your testosterone levels are consistently high due to the effects of this drug is what sometimes causes a total shutdown of endogenous testosterone production when coming off the drug, setting you up for a lifetime of hypogonadism.
> 
> I also wouldn't trust the 2% side effects statistic being that Merck also stated that _"DHT does not have much use in the male body"_ - I have been rolf'ing at that for a few years now.
> 
> DHT is one of the most important male hormones, the very fact that it determined your gender when you were in a foetal state should indicate that.
> 
> Good luck.


 Fearmongering! The increase of testosterone induced by 5-AR is small, much smaller than e. g. in anti-estrogens that are capable to elevate your testosterone levels by more than 100%. Hence the risk of gynecomastia is small as well, about 1.3%. 

And as for DHT, it has no important function after adolescence - if you don't consider baldness, prostate enlargement and prostate cancer as things without which you can't be alive.

----------


## Jcm800

Loomings, where are you? Are you still taking Fin?

----------


## JulioGP

taking 0.25 mg 1 or 2 times a week to no avail. 

I've done a series of blood tests and Finasteride has a short half-life of about 8 hours. The next day after you ingest these 0.25 mg, and did not reduce DHT consistently, you will still cause a rebound effect and your body will further increase the level of DHT in the other day to balance. 

You do this 2 times a week, only confuses your body and the hormonal part no use at all for baldness. 

I do not approve the use of Finasteride, especially in this way. 

If you want to do something less harmful, it is better to further fractionate the dose, but take every day and not be creating a rebound effect.

----------


## Jcm800

Makes sense ,  JulioGP,  but other people claim success with this? Desmond for example.. Tho after several requests for updates he hasn't given any.. 

Would this amount 3 times per week be beneficial then I wonder? I certainly see what you mean regarding confusing the hormones, and have wondered about it.

----------


## WarLord

> Makes sense ,  JulioGP,  but other people claim success with this? Desmond for example.. Tho after several requests for updates he hasn't given any.. 
> 
> Would this amount 3 times per week be beneficial then I wonder? I certainly see what you mean regarding confusing the hormones, and have wondered about it.


 Take it either daily - as recommended - or don't take it all, and show your shiny skull to the whole world. The clownery you are doing is worthless.

----------


## Jcm800

> Take it either daily - as recommended - or don't take it all, and show your shiny skull to the whole world. The clownery you are doing is worthless.


 Lol, words of wisdom.

----------


## JulioGP

> Makes sense ,  JulioGP,  but other people claim success with this? Desmond for example.. Tho after several requests for updates he hasn't given any.. 
> 
> Would this amount 3 times per week be beneficial then I wonder? I certainly see what you mean regarding confusing the hormones, and have wondered about it.


 I've read the case of Desmond . It turns out that the clinical examination , thus taking Finasteride does not show any efficacy . Even using 1mg every other day , it was an old thread , whether or not worked , the clinical examination showed no reduction in DHT .

I remember Desmond had made ​​no examination of DHT . It may be that the follicles were not very sensitive to DHT in his case, and any dosage made ​​a small difference , because no one knew what was the level of DHT that he had , maybe it was already extremely low .

In my examination which showed effectiveness have used was 0.5 mg daily . Perhaps using 0.25 mg daily also do some effect . 

Only you have to be daily, because if the half-life of finasteride is 8 hours , a few hours after you take it , your DHT already back to normal level , ie you will get about 1 /3 of day with the lowest DHT , and the rebound effect of the body to compensate for this decrease in DHT , in my opinion , can further aggravate the AAG , in this case to take every other day or so diluted in the week .

I think the best thing to do would be to lower the dose, but always take daily.

----------


## Jcm800

Thanks bud. So you think half a Mg daily could be alright? Would you recommend tapering onto it? Or just starting daily?

----------


## Dan26

> Thanks bud. So you think half a Mg daily could be alright? Would you recommend tapering onto it? Or just starting daily?


 JCM consider that in Merks trial 0.2mg/daily was pretty solid. Not as good results as 1mg/day, but I think only 20% worse (in terms of haircount, the important stat!)

Id say disregard what everyone is yammering about as far as fin dosing goes and focus on the only tangible statistic we have which is hair count. I am unaware of any study that shows haircount from something other than a daily dose!

----------


## burtandernie

There probably isnt much proof to go off of, but if I were on propecia I think I would take it everyday consistently at about the same if I could. I dont see any problem using .25mg that is what I would do why take more risk then you need too?

----------


## JulioGP

> Thanks bud. So you think half a Mg daily could be alright? Would you recommend tapering onto it? Or just starting daily?


 0.5 mg daily can certainly give some result. I would start straight, taking every day. Remember that using any dose, there is still the risk for side effects.

----------


## WarLord

> Greetings all,
> 
> This is my first post on this forum after months of lurking and doing my research.
> 
> I decided to take the Propecia Plunge after weighing up a number of things:
> 
> - Lack of hard scientific evidence on serious risks associated with taking this drug (all research seems to indicate a small subset of men having problems- Negative views on Propecia seem mostly anecdotal).
> 
> - Erwig study flawed in my view. Biased sample from Propecia Help, research conducted via phone interviews.
> ...


 Yes, I was curious, if you experience some "side effects" on this dose. LOL

Man, you are completely delusional. My advice: Don't ridicule yourself here.

----------


## kissmyscalp

I'm on 0.25 mg EOD from 4 month and it completely stop my hair loss so stop saying sh*t. It works, probably not for everyone, but it works.

Fin reduce DHT for 48h at almost the same amount so no problem and 0.25mg is at least 50% as powerful as 1mg.

And I have some sides too: testicular pain, breast sensibility and weight gain.

----------


## thechamp

> I'm on 0.25 mg EOD from 4 month and it completely stop my hair loss so stop saying sh*t. It works, probably not for everyone, but it works.
> 
> Fin reduce DHT for 48h at almost the same amount so no problem and 0.25mg is at least 50% as powerful as 1mg.
> 
> And I have some sides too: testicular pain, breast sensibility and weight gain.


 Weight gain was the side effect I got had to stop my ass hips stomach what sort of weight gain u get

----------


## kissmyscalp

> Weight gain was the side effect I got had to stop my ass hips stomach what sort of weight gain u get


 Yes, I look like Kim kardashian now. I plan to stop this crap. This is not a viable solution.

----------


## burtandernie

You cant have your cake and eat it too. If you take enough propecia to work then you can get sides I doubt there is anyway to dose your way around that. Less sides just its less effective its a game you really wont win you just settle on some compromise your comfortable with.
The rest of this is pointless its different for everyone with no right or wrong answers because no one has any idea what lower levels of DHT during certain times or days really does. I dont take propecia but if I did and said I gained 2 lbs who really cares? Its not gonna happen for you the same way

----------


## Jcm800

Thing is if you ask someone like Spex he says in his experience of Fin users in real life not many at all report sides. Yet reports are common place on here. 

What's the truth? Are side suffering users a minority that voice their opinions here.. Are there many more unaffected out there that we don't here about? 

Spex and Spencer have been taking it for over ten years, happily. It's confusing.

----------


## Notcoolanymore

> Yes, *I look like Kim kardashian now*. I plan to stop this crap. This is not a viable solution.


 
Nice, mmmm hmmm.

----------


## JulioGP

> I'm on 0.25 mg EOD from 4 month and it completely stop my hair loss so stop saying sh*t. It works, probably not for everyone, but it works.
> 
> Fin reduce DHT for 48h at almost the same amount so no problem and 0.25mg is at least 50&#37; as powerful as 1mg.
> 
> And I have some sides too: testicular pain, breast sensibility and weight gain.


 
I'm sorry but you are wrong. 

You did not actually read the package insert for Finasteride?

Pharmacokinetic data

Bioavailability
63% 

Metabolism
Hepatic 

*Half-life
Elderly: 8 hours
Adults: 6 hours* 

Excretion
Feces (57%) and urine (39%) as metabolites

----------


## Jazz1

I tested FIN every third day was fine, anything over 3 days my itch would come back. Iv been on FIN EOD and been doing fine.

----------


## kissmyscalp

From a doctor on another website:

The average serum "half-life" of finasteride 1mg is about *5 hours in young men and 8 hours in older men*. This does not mean that half of the medicine is out of your body in that time period though. The finasteride molecule is distributed throughout the body where it binds to the type II 5-alpha-reductase enzyme, thereby inhibiting conversion of testosterone to dihydrotesterone. Serum DHT is reduced about 65%, and less DHT means less balding. But several studies show that a *single dose of finasteride suppresses serum DHT for 7 days or more* (Eur J Drug Metab Pharmacokinet. 1991 Jan-Mar;16(1):15-21, J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1990 Apr;70(4):1136-41, Prostate. 1989;14(1):45-53). So the finasteride is leaving the bloodstream, entering the tissue throughout the body, and binding to the typeII 5AR enzyme, resulting in long lasting DHT suppression.

I do not "recommend" my patients take finasteride daily, every other day, twice weekly, etc. Rather I feel it is my duty as their doctor to advise them of the known facts about this medication. Most of my patients choose to take it on a Mon-Wed-Fri schedule, which is rational from my point of view. Many of my younger patients take it daily 'just to be sure' while my older patients are happy to take it two or three times a week. There are no clinical studies showing that less than daily dosing is as effective at treating hair loss as daily dosing and for obvious financial reasons, the pharmaceutical company making finasteride has no incentive to fund such a study.

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## JulioGP

Look, doctors can say what they want. I've done the blood test (serum) taking finasteride every other day and 1 day after taking the dose, the DHT was already on high again. 

People may feel some improvement and I believe, for 7 days a week if you use 2 times a week, you'll be the other 5 with high DHT. At least 2 days of the week you will remove some DHT. This gives 96 days per year, which is not bad. 

Some people even using Finasteride every day (and doing tests to find it) can download the DHT to an acceptable level, who uses 1 or 2 times a week, will never achieve this. 

Here I make a bet with you. 
Who want to use this way, MAKE TESTS BLOOD. Then post the results here. You will see that does not work.

Talking about A or B without doing any blood work and believe that it works, is the same as believing in Santa Claus, I'm sorry.

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## Jcm800

So Julio, have you had persistant side effects after quitting Finasteride?  How many times have you tried the drug yourself? 

I like your posts and believe you talk sense,  do you work in the medical field at all?

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## kissmyscalp

Something is wrong with your blood test. With 1mg ED you have a strong decrease in testo and an increase DHT. This is a complete non sense.

Maybe you are playing too much with your hormones and different products.

And DHT does not return to its baseline in only 24h.

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## JulioGP

> So Julio, have you had persistant side effects after quitting Finasteride?  How many times have you tried the drug yourself? 
> 
> I like your posts and believe you talk sense,  do you work in the medical field at all?


 I tried using the product 3 times. I do not work in the medical field. I believe I managed to recover about 85% of what I was before the medication, and it took at least another 6 months. There are many people on the forum here in Brazil (over 8000 participants) had irreversible side effects and still failed to recover.

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## Jcm800

I see thanks,  yeah persistant sides are a big worry for me. 

What sides did you experience that made you try it three times unsuccessfully?

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## JulioGP

> Something is wrong with your blood test. With 1mg ED you have a strong decrease in testo and an increase DHT. This is a complete non sense.
> 
> Maybe you are playing too much with your hormones and different products.
> 
> And DHT does not return to its baseline in only 24h.


 kissmyscalp , DHT returns to its level before 24 hours. Both testosterone and the DHT hormones are very dynamic , they vary quickly up and down.

If you collect the blood in the morning and afternoon , may be surprised at the difference in the results because all day these hormones rise and fall, so without having to use any medication.

Of course there is much good sense in believing in the package leaflet saying that the half - life of the drug is about 6-8 hours.

When you use Finasteride and suppresses DHT , you can have an increase in testosterone or 17 beta - estradiol . Generally the testosterone that was not converted to DHT by the 5AR turns into a bit of estradiol and it is easy to be felt by some, which is the famous Gynecomastia .

I had no drop in testo used as Finasteride , however , in my tests, at the time I used 0.5 mg of finasteride every day, I had an increase in testosterone by 32&#37; .

Want further proof that DHT quickly returns to its original level within a few hours ? I'll give you an example . Female Contraception .

The Contraceptive contains " ingredients " that reduce the release of follicle- stimulating and luteinizing hormones . *If the woman does not take all day ( even at the right time ) , does not work properly* . It is very similar to DHT. The body does not take days to raise their level, it does not exist.

What could perhaps be used for a "long period" would be this: 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome...-baldness.html

But there chances of you having side effects for years, since the drug is in your body all this time.

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## Dan26

Julio you are ONE person...We cannot take your blood test results and say the same will be true for everyone else.

We have scientific literature that proves opposite of what you are saying...So either that stuff is wrong, you are wrong, or you are both right and it is different for each individual.

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## JulioGP

I agree with you. 

I concluded that the literature does not work for everyone. Have to take the test and do blood tests. You can not just rely on the literature.

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## mowingdown

Just browsing old threads. Is this still working for you?

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## Sam01

Loomings an update bro?

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## Pike1

Hello everyone

It's my first post on this forum, I have read this discussion with interest as I  contemplated taking finasteride for the last couple of years as I was advised to do so by a well known HairLoss centre here in UK, after reading tons of information on the net I decided to start taking a dose of 0.5mg daily on the 21st Dec 2017, on the very same day I experienced a mild pain in the nuts which on and off persisted on a daily basis, after 3/4 days I noticed my morning erections stopped and I can sincerely say that after 7/8 days I had serious difficulties to have sex with my wife.  I am not sure if I fall in the 1 or 2% stats but surely this was enough to scare the hell out of me and stopped this stuff last week. My plan is to go back to a dermatologist and start from basics again (blood tests eccetera..) and see where things are wrong .

I find incredible that after 20 years there are still arguments on the effectiveness and the correct usage of this drug. Don't you all agree?

On the other hand I am also very interested how did it work out for Loomings.....

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## hairykevin

It depends on the person. I've seen studies that show 0.25 mg is good enough. Unless you have sides you should go with the recommended amount of 1mg. I've seen .25 mg help regrow hair on humans heads. You can consult your Doctor. I'm currently taking 0.5mg Fin and it works well.

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## arg26

Hi Kevin,

How long you been on 0.5mg Fin for? did you start at 1mg.

I've been on 1mg for 2 years. works well. hair on the head. INterested in lowering the dose as - while it might just be my anxiety or a placebo, I do feel a decrease in the strength and durations of my erections.

As reference, I'm 34 y/o Norwood Type II

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## anarki

Is it true that finasteride is only effective on the top and crown area? I've read that it could make the hairline/temples even worse. What's your experience? I'm taking it mainly to keep my hairline (on my 2nd week)
Hope it won't make more damage than benefits
36 yo guy with NW 2.5-ish

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## puro1212

> Greetings all,
> 
> This is my first post on this forum after months of lurking and doing my research.
> 
> I decided to take the Propecia Plunge after weighing up a number of things:
> 
> - Lack of hard scientific evidence on serious risks associated with taking this drug (all research seems to indicate a small subset of men having problems- Negative views on Propecia seem mostly anecdotal).
> 
> - Erwig study flawed in my view. Biased sample from Propecia Help, research conducted via phone interviews.
> ...


 Hi Loomings,

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience back in 2012.  It is almost 6 years now.  I am wondering if you are still taking Finasteride 0.25 mg twice per week and how well it is working now for you. I am very interested to start taking Finasteride.  I just want to make sure that I take the correct dose and the correct frequency. 

Thanks
Scott

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## Manochoice

yeah, I'd be curious too how your situation went on...

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