# Hair Transplants > Hair Transplant: Start Your Own Topic >  New user; 7-weeks post-procedure

## win200

Hello, all. I've been lurking around here for a few weeks and figured it was time to introduce myself. I'm a 29-year-old in Seattle, and had 1450 grafts via strip with Dr. Niedbalski exactly 7 weeks ago, including PRP and ACell. I consulted with two docs in Seattle, which probably was a bit light, and I'm kicking myself for only discovering Drs. Hasson and Wong AFTER my procedure (they're only 2 hours away in BC). But I was generally impressed with Dr. Niedbalski, and at 7 weeks I obviously have no results yet, so no reason to suspect a bad outcome. 

Prior to surgery I had a mild NW3 with miniaturization only at the hairline; Niedbalski used a scope all over my head and found no miniaturization anywhere but the edge of the frontal hairline. Both docs predicted that I'm programmed for a NW3 pattern. Neither doctor recommended Propecia, and I'm not sure I'd be comfortable taking it, regardless. I'm not using minoxidil. 

Pictures are attached; the first three are before surgery, 'Postop' is about a week after the operation, and '7weeks' were taken a few minutes ago. Thoughts/comments welcome. I'm obviously at the depths of the 'ugly duckling' phase and had a little shock loss at the forelock, but nothing that I felt was alarming and based on the number of hairs on my hands following shampooing, loss has subsided to pre-op levels.

----------


## win200

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

I'm particularly curious if anyone has any experience or familiar with Dr. Niedbalski. Again, I have no reason at all at this stage to suspect that I didn't receive good work, but obviously finding out about IAHRS _after_ the fact is a little confidence-shaking.

----------


## bigonefive

It's hard to tell during the doldrums, since the transplanted hair is resting, but I'm very curious to see how things develop.  Definitely post some pictures down the road once the transplanted hair begins to poke through.  Do you have any immediate post-op pics?  That would give us a better idea.

----------


## Delphi

Its really hard to tell whats going on at this point.  Dr. Steve Gable is actually an incredible hair transplant surgeon and hes an IAHRS doctor in Seattle and of course as you mentioned there is Hasson and Wong, so if you are concerned you should go see one of them to have them check you out. They might make you feel better about your decision. Even though it was a very small amount of grafts it looks like the skin is healing well so Im sure youll come out fine.

----------


## win200

Thanks to both of you--I really appreciate it. Like I said, there's really no objective reason to be worried. Both the doctor and his office have been very responsive to calls/emails (including giving his home number), and I got a very nice call today from his assistant, who told me that 7-8 weeks is when lots of patients get antsy/fearful because they haven't seen growth, and they like to check in and answer questions or provide reassurance.

I also liked Niedbalski because I walked into his office for my consult wanting to completely cover my receded temples and push towards a quasi-juvenile hairline, and he talked me out of it and into a smaller, more conservative procedure. He said that he prefers to move incrementally to let people adjust to a new hairline rather than installing a drastic change that someone might regret. I really appreciated that, because he essentially turned down graft proceeds and accepted the possibility that I'd be happy with a smaller procedure and never return. (He also gave me ~250 free grafts, for a total of 1450 instead of the contracted-for 1200) I know that that kind of honesty doesn't necessarily translate into surgical competence, but I think it probably has some correlation to caution and genuine care about a patient's welfare, which probably leads to better handling of grafts and lower likelihood of transplant failure.

I've attached a few more postop pics that show the grafts. I think these are about seven days out, so not immediate post-op pics, but better than nothing. Thanks!

----------


## bigonefive

The post-op photos look fine.  It tends to take most people a good 3 months to begin to see some of the transplanted hairs to grow back in, and you may not see significant results until the 6 month mark.  I wouldn't worry too much yet...it's looking fine to me.

----------


## J_B_Davis

Its just a waiting game now. The placement looks ok so things should work out.

----------


## kd

All I would say is after 7 weeks you can not even tell you had anything done, like scar or mark wise.

7 weeks is way to early to tell. I am still in the waiting game. Cant wait to see your results.

----------


## win200

Thanks for the encouragement, guys; like everyone else, the waiting is killing me, and the paranoia isn't fun (did my transplant fail? etc.).

I'd love a little reassurance re: shock loss, even though I know most of the info. I'm at 8 weeks now, and I'm definitely experiencing a little shock loss. Before my HT I would find about 10-20 hairs on my hands between shampooing and conditioning, and now I'm at about 30-35, although it varies a little every day. It's not freaking me out, but it does make me a little uncomfortable, and there's that nagging worry in the back of my head that, although I know native hairs typically regrow after exiting the resting phase, I'll somehow be the exception and end up worse off than before my HT. I'm a little reassured about the shower loss because my hair is pretty long and thick (see original pictures), so when I shed the normal ~100 hairs throughout the day, most don't leave my head and just stay trapped by the bulk (I also use a sticky molding paste). My hairline had been receding at the temples very, very slowly over the past few years (I'd say 3 millimeters tops since about '04). 

Anyway, I know that every says shock loss occurs within the first three months, but does that mean it usually stops in its tracks at three months, or that it should be tapering off around two month-ish? I.e., when does most of the shock loss typically occur within that window?

As always, I really appreciate encouragement/comments/etc. You guys are great, and I'm thankful every day that I found this forum.

----------


## win200

My digital camera ran out of batteries, so no pictures today; they'll be up shortly, though. 

My growth is pretty good, though I had a recent check-in with my surgeon and when I asked if most of the grafts had sprouted yet, he said "not by a long shot." Which is good news, because while I like what I'm seeing in terms of growth so far, it's not the density I'd hope for. But I'm not even at four months, so I know that most of the growth is yet to come.

What concerns me is that I'm still seeing more shedding than I'd like to, even now that we're outside of what's considered the shock loss window. I posted earlier that I'd lost some density in the forelock area. On two follow-up appointments, the doctor said that will recover. I know that we always notice these things more than others, but it's thin enough there that I've been wearing my hair down over my forehead every day to cover it (that also covers the messy area where growth is starting). When I shampoo/condition, I'm seeing a varying amount of shedding--some days 15 hairs, some days 40. And they're not all miniaturized hairs, which is sort of alarming. The problem is that before my procedure, I wasn't really paying that much attention to my shedding and density, so it's hard to compare. I'd sort of glance at my hands to see how much hair was there, but I'd never count and pull hairs out of the suds. And I never paid much attention to density on the top of my head, and I'm concerned that it's thinning out now. It seems just a tad thing when I pull my hair apart and look through it, but I never did that before the surgery so I don't know if I've lost anything. I'm just very, very concerned that the surgery touched off shedding throughout the top of my head that didn't exist before. I asked the surgeon about the shedding by email yesterday, and he said any heightened shedding should resolve "within the next few weeks." How would he know that--and what if it doesn't?

I also started Propecia one week ago at .25mg every other day. I really want to stabilize this shedding, because it's causing me lots of stress. I know the doldrums is a tough period and everyone goes through a rough time, but I just have this lingering worry about my shedding. And because my hair is pretty long on top, it's going to take the new growth longer to integrate. I'm just scared to cut my hair short for fear of revealing thinness at the top of the head.

I've been trying to get in to see Dr. Gabel, but his staff doesn't seem to have any clue when he's going to be in his Seattle office next, which is a little frustrating. They told me September, then October, now they just don't know.

----------


## win200

I'm not sure if anyone is following this thread, so I may be sending these out to no one, but I guess writing them down helps.

After my surgery I've focused solely on my hairline, where the grafts were placed. My forelock became fairly thin after the surgery, and my surgeon has looked at it twice and assured me that it would recover. I hate looking at it, but the reassurances were enough to get me through.

However, I've still had heightened shedding of non-miniaturized hairs, which I assumed were coming from the front, like protracted shock loss. Today I carefully went through my top and crown area, and discovered--to my horror--that it's visibly thinned. If I part my hair, you can see back through the parted hair. You could never do that before. Both surgeons that examined me before the surgery said I had no thinning in my top/crown. So what is going on? Why am I losing NON-MINIATURIZED hair from these areas? There were no grafts placed there. Is this going to stop? I'm pretty close to panicking; I had 100% density in those areas with a nice thick head of hair, and it's starting to flatten with the thinness. I've got awful visions of going to a NW6-7 by the time I'm 12 months from surgery. I mean, if this continues... 

Thankfully, Dr. Gable worked me in this week, so hopefully--fingers crossed--he can give me some answers. Because this is hard to take. If *anyone* has any thoughts about this, I'd really appreciate it.

----------


## hairG

Shock loss sucks! The waiting sucks :Frown:  But I am sure you will recover from it! 

I am 2.5 weeks into my HT & am also super anxious about it! But try and remember that anxiety could also lead to additional hair-loss & at least that is one aspect that is seemingly in our control! So good luck to you & do keep us posted!

----------


## rev3

propecia sometimes initially causes thinning as well

so be aware of that

this all comes back

----------


## win200

Just an update:

Appt. with Dr. Gabel was great--just an outstanding guy, and the type of personality that really resonates with me. He was methodical, precise, and gave me nearly two hours of his time. Without implying anything unduly negative about my doctor, I can see the IAHRS difference in action. I don't want to speak specifically about Dr. Gabels thoughts about my surgeon's work out of courtesy for his professional relationships, but he said he didn't observe anything to cause alarm. He was thankful I'd gone on Propecia, and highly encouraged me to get on Rogaine. He said that 4 months really is too early to really evaluate the surgery thoroughly and accurately, but he suspected that I may want the hairline thickened.

I liked his conservatism, first and foremost. I shared that both doctors I saw said I wasn't "programmed" for loss beyond a NWIII, and he was pretty upset that a doctor would share that view with a patient. He said there's simply no way to know, and that while certain patterns expressed at certain ages can be predictive, a doctor can't offer that evaluation with certainty. Consequently, he strongly advise me NOT to have my hairline transplanted any lower, because I'll need as many grafts as possible to cover the vertex and crown in case I lose it. 

Anyway, he made me feel much, much better, and volunteered to do another appointment when I'm a year out from surgery and can see final results.

I'd recommend him without hesitation.

----------


## inspects

Hi Win,

I just noticed your thread, I'm glad to read you finally received some answers to your questions from a different point of view.

I'm going on four months come the 16th of this month, my new hairs are in various stages of growth, most are 1/4 in long, some slightly longer, and I been noticing more popping up in the last week.

You should begin to see some real growth any day now. I started to have small like pimples on my head, then in a day or two out pop more hairs. I think it has to do with the depth of the follicle, although they used an instrument set at a certain depth, some follicles grew faster than others.

I have also noticed the front was the _slowest_ to begin growth. Now I'm experiencing more small pimples at the front, so I guess more follicles are getting ready to sprout.

I started on the 1 mg Propecia right after my TP, my loss stopped within a week or two, I started using Minoxidil after about three weeks post op. I think you'll see great results with those two medications. They certainly helped me, and I mean they stopped loss completely from what I see towel drying my hair over a white sink. I see maybe one hair a week in the sink, to me that's as good as it gets.

I wish the best for your new hair, in a couple weeks you'll see it all coming together nicely, not worrying helps immensely too, I'm glad the doctor put things into perspective...!

Cheers,

Dale

----------


## win200

> Hi Win,
> 
> I just noticed your thread, I'm glad to read you finally received some answers to your questions from a different point of view.
> 
> I'm going on four months come the 16th of this month, my new hairs are in various stages of growth, most are 1/4 in long, some slightly longer, and I been noticing more popping up in the last week.
> 
> You should begin to see some real growth any day now. I started to have small like pimples on my head, then in a day or two out pop more hairs. I think it has to do with the depth of the follicle, although they used an instrument set at a certain depth, some follicles grew faster than others.
> 
> I have also noticed the front was the _slowest_ to begin growth. Now I'm experiencing more small pimples at the front, so I guess more follicles are getting ready to sprout.
> ...


 Thanks, Dale.  I actually saw growth pretty early--there's about one inch of growth all throughout the front. I'm a little worried because the growth that's there is really thin--unacceptably thin. Hopefully it'll fill in more. And hopefully the Propecia/Rogaine will help out, although they certainly haven't stopped any shedding yet.

----------


## inspects

> Thanks, Dale.  I actually saw growth pretty early--there's about one inch of growth all throughout the front. I'm a little worried because the growth that's there is really thin--unacceptably thin. Hopefully it'll fill in more. And hopefully the Propecia/Rogaine will help out, although they certainly haven't stopped any shedding yet.


 Win,

Did you lose all your transplanted hair before regrowth?

I noticed many hairs didn't shed and so did my doctor, when I asked about this he said some people don't shed all the transplanted hair, but they didn't grow either, they stayed dormant until the others sprouted, now I have hair in various stages of growth. The hairs which didn't shed in the first couple months might be shedding now when I see one in the sink every once in a while.

Possibly you have others which have not started to grow yet, hopefully that's the case, then you will have the thicker hair you wanted.

I too wish I would have known about this forum prior to my procedure, but after reading many threads and seeing my results I'm sure my procedure went as planned.

Next year I'll get 1,000 in the front and top, then I should be where I want to be.

The medication should be halting your loss soon...it all takes time and everyone is different, if your like me, I'm a little impatient, but I've learned to be patient after finding this forum and reading other experiences, similar to yours.

Be well my friend, it will only get better...!!

Dale

----------


## win200

Just took these. Looking at them, my heart sinks. My hairline has completely disintegrated since the procedure, and the entire hairline is a total mess. The surgery isn't integrating, and I'm losing heavily behind the grafts. If this continues, I'll have lots of space behind the new (too thin) hair. 

Has anyone ever seen a result like this at 5 months before? I have a hard time thinking of this as anything other than a disaster, particularly when compared to my original, pre-op pics. Any thoughts are welcome.

----------


## inspects

Hi Win,

Perhaps just shock loss...my hair is at exactly four months today, I can see new hairs still sprouting this past week in the temples. I think if you give it a couple more months it will only get better.

Mine was a mess compared to you, and I mean really a mess compared to what I've gained in such a short period, they said we really need to be patient, in a year everything will be grown, then I'll head back for another session, hopefully you won't need to.

----------


## inspects

> Just took these. Looking at them, my heart sinks. My hairline has completely disintegrated since the procedure, and the entire hairline is a total mess. The surgery isn't integrating, and I'm losing heavily behind the grafts. If this continues, I'll have lots of space behind the new (too thin) hair. 
> 
> Has anyone ever seen a result like this at 5 months before? I have a hard time thinking of this as anything other than a disaster, particularly when compared to my original, pre-op pics. Any thoughts are welcome.


 Win,

Looking at your pictures close it looks to me like you have more small hairs sprouting in too...!

----------


## win200

> Win,
> 
> Looking at your pictures close it looks to me like you have more small hairs sprouting in too...!


 Thanks, inspects.  I'm not complaining about the grafts--I'm definitely seeing growth, and they've still growing in. I'm worried about all the loss of native hair. If too much of that goes, I'm going to have a very, very strange-looking hairline when all is said and done.

----------


## inspects

> Thanks, inspects.  I'm not complaining about the grafts--I'm definitely seeing growth, and they've still growing in. I'm worried about all the loss of native hair. If too much of that goes, I'm going to have a very, very strange-looking hairline when all is said and done.


 Take a trip to your surgeons office, hopefully they can put it into perspective for you so your not so depressed-stressed and/or anxious.

Are you on Fin or Minox?

I don't remember now without reading though the posts, if your not, they stopped loss for me anyway....and I mean to a DEAD HALT...!

I'm new to this TP gig...but I would have to say, the Meds helped immensely.

----------


## win200

> Take a trip to your surgeons office, hopefully they can put it into perspective for you so your not so depressed-stressed and/or anxious.
> 
> Are you on Fin or Minox?
> 
> I don't remember now without reading though the posts, if your not, they stopped loss for me anyway....and I mean to a DEAD HALT...!
> 
> I'm new to this TP gig...but I would have to say, the Meds helped immensely.


 I started finasteride exactly three months after my surgery, and minoxidil four months after.  I've been on the finasteride for two months and the minoxidil for one, and no slowing in the shedding yet, I'm afraid.

----------


## inspects

> I started finasteride exactly three months after my surgery, and minoxidil four months after.  I've been on the finasteride for two months and the minoxidil for one, and no slowing in the shedding yet, I'm afraid.


 Has to be related to shock loss Win..give it some time, you should get the hair back without any problems, but go see your doctor, I know I can walk into my doctors office anytime of the day, I might have to wait a few minutes but he will see me, free of course, if you have a good surgeon he should only want to help with your concern.

----------


## rev3

> I started finasteride exactly three months after my surgery, and minoxidil four months after.  I've been on the finasteride for two months and the minoxidil for one, and no slowing in the shedding yet, I'm afraid.


 totally related to minox

minox causes shedding of native hair in the first few months of treatment

this will all grow back even thicker

you will see

----------


## win200

I'll push through the minox shed.

Also went to the derm today, and she checked my ferritin levels, which she said were low. She put me on an iron supplement, so hopefully that will help a bit.

----------


## win200

Just another update. The recipient area has really grown in / thickened up in the last month (I'm at 6.5 months now). I really hated what my hair looked like when I last posted pictures; it was wispy and didn't integrate with my native hair. At this point I'm fairly positive that I had a decent amount of shock loss, which is NOT growing back, and at this point I don't expect it to. However, based upon my balding pattern and looking at my brother, whose loss is more extensive, I'm pretty certain that this loss was going to occur anyway. Essentially, I've traded, at least in the hairline / frontal area, a more defined, lower hairline for some density. That trade is fine by me. I can now, for the first time since my surgery, wear my hair "up" with the hairline exposed and feel comfortable doing so. It's a little thin, but not thin enough to be noticed. It falls in that realm of things that no one but me will realize exist.

I've attached three pictures; these were taken with sunlight streaming in onto the hair, so the hairline is relatively "lit up."

Love to hear feedback.

----------


## inspects

Damn Win, looks incredible...really natural...you have a winner...!

----------


## win200

> Damn Win, looks incredible...really natural...you have a winner...!


 Thanks! I'm pretty happy with it. After having that soft / ragged type of hairline that you get with recession, it's awesome having a defined hairline... you know, that's an actual LINE. That's the most visually striking part of it for me.

----------


## gillenator

win200,

At only 6.5 months post-op is awesome.  You still have a way to go my friend!

Again, thanks for sharing these updates.  :Wink:

----------


## win200

> win200,
> 
> At only 6.5 months post-op is awesome.  You still have a way to go my friend!
> 
> Again, thanks for sharing these updates.


 Thanks, gillenator! It's amazing how your results can turn a corner relatively quickly; about 1.5-2 months ago, I was really disappointed and considered the surgery a relative failure. But now I'm happy with it, and I know it'll only improve in the months to come. I actually think it looks even better in person.

----------


## gillenator

win200,

And just think, after the regrowth has fully completed, hair shaft maturation will improve the appearance of coverage even after 12 months!

Hair shaft maturation can continue up to 18 months post-op for some patients.

If you are ever in the greater Washington DC area, let me know as I would like to see your matured result in person.  And if you have not toured DC, there's lots to see.

Plus my wife is an awesome cook!  :Wink:

----------


## Getsome

Win, 
I am three months and one week post op.  I had a substantial amount of shock loss in my hairline.  I was wandering did your shock loss recovery and if so around what month post op did you notice?  I can feel a lot of stubble in my hairline.  Thanks.

----------


## win200

> win200,
> 
> And just think, after the regrowth has fully completed, hair shaft maturation will improve the appearance of coverage even after 12 months!
> 
> Hair shaft maturation can continue up to 18 months post-op for some patients.
> 
> If you are ever in the greater Washington DC area, let me know as I would like to see your matured result in person.  And if you have not toured DC, there's lots to see.
> 
> Plus my wife is an awesome cook!


 Thanks for that offer! If I'm around DC, I'll definitely take you up on it!

----------


## win200

> Win, 
> I am three months and one week post op.  I had a substantial amount of shock loss in my hairline.  I was wandering did your shock loss recovery and if so around what month post op did you notice?  I can feel a lot of stubble in my hairline.  Thanks.


 I don't think my shock loss has recovered, for the most part. I was under 30 when I had my procedure, which is the age most susceptible to shock loss, and I wasn't on Propecia. So I think I lost a fairly extensive amount of hair that was going to be lost eventually, and at 7 months, I doubt it'll return.

----------


## Getsome

Win,
  You have had good results!  Do you think it is all from new transplanted hair filling in bald spots and shock loss areas?  Is there a way to tell the difference between shocked hair that has come back or if the new hair is transplanted hair?  
What makes you think your shock loss has not recovered even to a small degree?  Thanks,
Getsome

----------


## rev3

wow!

7 months and only 1450 grafts?!

fantastic transformation

hairline now frames your face great!

you can always add more to beef up if you want more density

but really great use of such a small amount of grafts in the hairline

congrats

----------


## win200

> wow!
> 
> 7 months and only 1450 grafts?!
> 
> fantastic transformation
> 
> hairline now frames your face great!
> 
> you can always add more to beef up if you want more density
> ...


 Thanks! I'm appreciating every day how resourceful my surgeon was. There's a very visible different in my hairline that frames my face well, but wasn't so drastic that people noticed; I don't think one person figured out I'd had work done. (Of course, I was barely a NW 2, at most, so most people couldn't tell I was losing hair anyway.)  I got what I wanted, which was a different hairline, but he didn't blow through lots of grafts and he left me options moving forward. I also like that the edge of the hairline is relatively straight; everyone has their own opinion on this, but I prefer the straighter, more "fixed" hairline over the jagged, varriegated types that have a more "natural" look. There's something incredibly clean about the edge of my hairline now; straight and even.

----------


## win200

Hey guys,

Just wanted to post an eight month update.  No pics tonight, but I'll post some soon.

If you read through the thread history, at a few intervals I was really freaking out about shock loss.  Well, no more.  I decided to cut my hair short, and was frankly terrified about it.  I thought a short cut would reveal tons of thinning, and that the front would be incredibly sparse and see-through.  Well, I chopped it all off a few weeks ago, and it looks incredible.   The transplant has really thickened up in the last two months, and the density in the hairline is incredible; there is zero--ZERO--evidence of thinning.  I wear my short hair styled up, so the hairline is fully exposed and the hair is pulled back--the easiest way to expose a thinning hairline.  It's undetectable.   I simply don't look like I have hair loss.

I got a relatively low transplant; the tip of the widow's peak touches just a millimeter or two above my juvenile hairline, and the temples are just a little more than a centimeter above the juvenile line.  Essentially, I have a mature hairline that isn't even fully mature at the widow's peak.

I've come to appreciate how relatively lucky I am.  I hadn't looked back at my pre-transplant pictures in awhile, and looking at them now, I realize I really hadn't had much loss.  And that's my level of loss at *30*, not 25.  So I'll tentatively hypothesize that I dodged somewhat of a bullet and inherited fairly minor loss.  My poor brother, who's four years younger than me, got hit much harder--he's 26 and has a rapidly thinning NW3.  Just to be on the safe side, I've been on Propecia and minoxidil for 5 months now, and they seem to be working.  My shedding has reduced a lot, but it's tough to tell how much is due to the meds and show much is due to loss from the surgery subsiding.  (I had a scalp biopsy that came up positive for TE, so it looks like the surgery induced a heavy shed that's recovering.)

I'll update more later.

----------


## win200

I'll post some close-ups of the hairline later, but this'll let you see how it looks when combined with my face.  

The only problem now is that I'm tempted to get another procedure to drop down the temples a little bit...  although I probably should just leave well enough alone.

----------


## gillenator

You look awesome win!

Hard to improve a result like that. Congrats again.  :Wink:

----------


## JJacobs152

> I'll post some close-ups of the hairline later, but this'll let you see how it looks when combined with my face.  
> 
> The only problem now is that I'm tempted to get another procedure to drop down the temples a little bit...  although I probably should just leave well enough alone.


 holy shi*t this is an amazing outcome. even with your 2nd/3rd picture post about the hairline disintegrating, i was thinking, "it's not that bad". however, these pictures are really good...

i can't wait to finish my boards, hopefully do well, and get a procedure done. are you on any meds?

----------


## win200

> holy shi*t this is an amazing outcome. even with your 2nd/3rd picture post about the hairline disintegrating, i was thinking, "it's not that bad". however, these pictures are really good...
> 
> i can't wait to finish my boards, hopefully do well, and get a procedure done. are you on any meds?


 Thanks! I'm really pleased; it's just so disarming when you're going through the "ugly duckling" phase... I was genuinely convinced that there was no way the results could turn around to the extent they have. Just remarkable.

I'm in 1mg Propecia, minoxidil at night, and Regenepure 2x per week; so the Big 3.  Not much to do beyond that...

All in all, I'm incredibly happy with my result, especially given that I went to a non-IAHRS doctor. Just shows that there are great surgeons who aren't members; in my case, my doc has been doing HTs for twenty years and has thousands and thousands of procedures under his belt, so he's well-versed in his field.

----------


## JJacobs152

> Thanks! I'm really pleased; it's just so disarming when you're going through the "ugly duckling" phase... I was genuinely convinced that there was no way the results could turn around to the extent they have. Just remarkable.
> 
> I'm in 1mg Propecia, minoxidil at night, and Regenepure 2x per week; so the Big 3.  Not much to do beyond that...
> 
> All in all, I'm incredibly happy with my result, especially given that I went to a non-IAHRS doctor. Just shows that there are great surgeons who aren't members; in my case, my doc has been doing HTs for twenty years and has thousands and thousands of procedures under his belt, so he's well-versed in his field.


 Your hair is amazing! Did your take the bar yet? I pushed my boards back. It's a pain, because I keep pushing my HT back. However, I've been on the big 3 as well, but also using rogaine in the morning and night. I'm pretty pleased with the results so far, but having the temples filled in for a mature hairline would be awesome. 

Just curious, but why are you trying to do a FUE procedure now? If you don't mind, can you take close macro- shots of your hairline?

----------


## drybone

Wow. I just came across this thread and read the whole thing. 

Fantastic !!!  :Smile:  

Thanks for sharing this.

----------


## jetfan11

Win,

I also had HT with Niedbalski and prp acell.  I have had a horrific amount of shock loss. I am 3 months 2 weeks out from surgery and very little recovery. I mean beyond devastating.  Did your shock loss ever grow back?  Also I have heard prp and acell treatments can cause hairloss.  Please advise.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I'll post some close-ups of the hairline later, but this'll let you see how it looks when combined with my face.  
> 
> The only problem now is that I'm tempted to get another procedure to drop down the temples a little bit...  although I probably should just leave well enough alone.


 Very symmetrical face - are you a model?

----------


## win200

> Very symmetrical face - are you a model?


 Haha, thanks!  Nope, I'm a corporate lawyer (nearly as sexy a career, obviously).  I just got lucky in the genes department.

----------


## win200

> Win,
> 
> I also had HT with Niedbalski and prp acell.  I have had a horrific amount of shock loss. I am 3 months 2 weeks out from surgery and very little recovery. I mean beyond devastating.  Did your shock loss ever grow back?  Also I have heard prp and acell treatments can cause hairloss.  Please advise.


 Hi Jet,

Some of my shock loss grew back, some didn't.  Keep in mind that my age (under thirty), active hair loss, and the fact that I was not on meds put me in the highest risk category for shock loss.  I doubt my shock loss will fully recover, but if those hairs were on their way out anyway, that's to be expected.

I've never heard that PRP and ACell cause hair loss; where'd you come across that?  Some folks, like Niedbalski, Jerry Cooley, and others, believe that it can invigorate weakened follicles.  But I've never heard a claim that it INCREASES hair loss; I'd be curious about that.

Why don't you post some clear before and after pics, as well as background about yourself?  I'd love to see another example of Niedbalski's work.  Also, are you in the greater Seattle/Tacoma area?

----------


## win200

Also, Jet, if you'd like to chat more, please email me at winfield.martin@gmail.com.

----------


## gillenator

It's very probable that when some patients state that PRP/Acell treatments caused them some additional hairloss, they are experiencing some temporary shedding.  I have not heard of this myself but it's my guess that was the culprit, some of the follicles retreating into telogen.  But they do rest and re-enter the growth phase once again.  :Smile:

----------


## jetfan11

Win,

Thanks for your response.  When did you notice shock loss startng to recover? Also could you tell the difference between shock loss recovering and new grafts growing in?

----------


## win200

> Win,
> 
> Thanks for your response.  When did you notice shock loss startng to recover? Also could you tell the difference between shock loss recovering and new grafts growing in?


 It's really tough to say on both counts.  The hardest thing about the process is that it's so gradual that you can't tell it's happening until you notice, one day, that there's been some recovery.  It also helped that I chopped my hair short, which caused it to fall forward in the direction that the follicles grow, which kept the hair from being pulled back and exposing any thinness to view.  I think it's worth mentioning that I have *not* recovered to full, pre-op density, nor do I expect to.  I was probably destined for some thinning in my forelock, and the procedure just shocked out hair that was going to go soon anyway.  So while it's annoying, I don't really mind and it's not very noticeable.  I do wish I'd been on Propecia *beforehand* rather than only after, because it's fairly well established that being on Propecia can help prevent shock loss.  That's my only real beef with Dr. Niedbalski, who I like and trust--that he didn't encourage me to stabilize my hair loss with medications before going under the knife.  Having active loss without medication adds a huge element of uncertainty to a procedure and increases the chance of a bad outcome, in my opinion.

----------


## jetfan11

Well I'm glad it worked out OK for you.  Unfortunately I've lost a ton of hair and its very noticeable to say the least.  I can only hope that some of it comes back. I think its unethical of Niedbalski to not warn people of shock loss when they are working in areas with lots of hair.  Also my ignorance for not looking into it on my own.  I have heard terminal hair comes back and most of my loss were grafts so we shall see.

You have EXTREMELY thick hair that certainly did not look weak or thin I woulda thought yours would have grown back.

So of shockloss that actually recovered for you at what month did it start to improve. Like I said I'm at about 3 and not much recovery going on.

----------


## win200

> Well I'm glad it worked out OK for you.  Unfortunately I've lost a ton of hair and its very noticeable to say the least.  I can only hope that some of it comes back. I think its unethical of Niedbalski to not warn people of shock loss when they are working in areas with lots of hair.  Also my ignorance for not looking into it on my own.  I have heard terminal hair comes back and most of my loss were grafts so we shall see.
> 
> You have EXTREMELY thick hair that certainly did not look weak or thin I woulda thought yours would have grown back.
> 
> So of shockloss that actually recovered for you at what month did it start to improve. Like I said I'm at about 3 and not much recovery going on.


 I'm very sorry to hear that you're having bad shock loss.  You should post some pictures and you'll get some good feedback.  If you don't want to post them publicly, I'd be happy to take a look if you send them to my email listed above.  And FYI, I have no association with Dr. Niedbalski beyond my status as a patient of his.  I'm happy with his work, but I also recognize that all experiences vary and I have no vested interest in trying to improve your opinion of him--just in providing helpful feedback.  I think I only saw improvement around the six-month mark.  It's a very long and protracted process, and I looked like crap (to my eyes at least; we're all our own worst critics) until six, six-and-a-half months.  At three months you're at the point where most post-op patients look the absolute worst, so hold off final judgment for awhile.  Usually, 18 months is considered the point at which the "final" result is visible, so you've got a long way to go.

----------


## jetfan11

I'm confused. Your shock loss never fully recovered and you never got back to your pre op density, but your happy with his work? How is that?

----------


## win200

> I'm confused. Your shock loss never fully recovered and you never got back to your pre op density, but your happy with his work? How is that?


 Part of it is accepting reality: I have MPD.  Therefore, I'm gonna lose some of my hair.  Specifically, in my case, in the forelock area.  Shock loss is an inherent risk in a hair transplant, and there's frequently little to nothing that a surgeon can do about it.  A surgeon needs to be careful not to transplant too far back into the existing hairline, but I don't think Niedbalski did in my case.  The bottom line is that his hairline design was natural, my scar is barely visible, and he used a conservative design that didn't blow through a lot of grafts but still got me what I wanted.  A minor sacrifice in the immediate frontal density--of hair that I was going to lose anyway--is perfectly acceptable to me.  I have no reason to think that that shock loss wouldn't have happened with any other surgeon.  These guys are incredibly talented, but they're not magicians, and they can't control your body's normal reactions to a surgical procedure, nor can they necessarily predict it.

----------


## jetfan11

Well I think there lies the difference. Most of your grafts were not in areas where there was hair. All of. My grafts were in areas where there was hair.  My procudure blew out almost all of the hair. In those areas. Sounds to me like you lost some density where he put new grafts but most of your grafts were not placed in areas of existing hair and grew in nicely.

Sound right?

----------


## win200

> Well I think there lies the difference. Most of your grafts were not in areas where there was hair. All of. My grafts were in areas where there was hair.  My procudure blew out almost all of the hair. In those areas. Sounds to me like you lost some density where he put new grafts but most of your grafts were not placed in areas of existing hair and grew in nicely.
> 
> Sound right?


 That's true. If you look at my one-week post op pics, you can see that the grafts lowered my hairline and went barely into the existing hairline.  My existing hairline sort of retreated a bit, like it was recoiling from the incisions--which is entirely consistent with shock loss; the scalp reacts to being sliced and diced.

That being said, it is *not* necessarily irresponsible of a surgeon to transplant into existing areas that are diminishing in density.  I'm seen work from some of the very best surgeons, like Dr. Feller, who transplant into areas where there's currently hair in order to "beef up" density.  It's just such a case-by-case evaluation.

How old are you, BTW?

----------


## jetfan11

I didn't say it was unnethical for him to put grafts where I have density. I said as a surgeon you need to warn people of the risks associated with it.  Its commonplace that placing hair where there is hair has significant risk.  I also think destroying ALL of exisitng hair where you placed new hair without question the sign of bad work. Especially if the hair lost in my case is previously grafted hair.  

I don't think Niedbalski is in same league as Feller or many other doctors. I've read several posts including yours of people who had terrible shock loss with Niedbalski.

I liked him. I thought we was a good guy. I chose to go with him. But my result is w/o question the sign of bad work and to not mention shock loss especially when transplanting heavy into existing hair is not right. Make no mistake I am responsible as well. Didn't do enough research. Hopefully all this shock loss recovers. If not it may well have ruined my life.

----------


## win200

> I didn't say it was unnethical for him to put grafts where I have density. I said as a surgeon you need to warn people of the risks associated with it.  Its commonplace that placing hair where there is hair has significant risk.  I also think destroying ALL of exisitng hair where you placed new hair without question the sign of bad work. Especially if the hair lost in my case is previously grafted hair.  
> 
> I don't think Niedbalski is in same league as Feller or many other doctors. I've read several posts including yours of people who had terrible shock loss with Niedbalski.
> 
> I liked him. I thought we was a good guy. I chose to go with him. But my result is w/o question the sign of bad work and to not mention shock loss especially when transplanting heavy into existing hair is not right. Make no mistake I am responsible as well. Didn't do enough research. Hopefully all this shock loss recovers. If not it may well have ruined my life.


 I think that's fair.  That being said, give it time.  As any transplant patient will tell you, it's impossible to tell what quality of work you received at 3 months.  If you read this thread history, you can tell that I was freaked out at 3 months, and basically declared it a botched job.  Now, I'm completely happy and multiple other posters have pointed out that I received excellent work.  It's completely possible that you might have gotten awful work, but you can't say that "without question" at this point.  I've seen some cases of just horrendous shock loss that had recoveries that seem almost miraculous.  I know it's really tough, but try to find a distraction and give it time to recover.

----------


## jetfan11

Man I hope that's the case.  This has been roughest 3 months of my life. I do feel better that you had shock loss and got some recovery.  I'm wondering if shock loss only starts to recover at 3/4 months or should be well on its way to being recovered by then.

If it just starts to regrow at 3/4 months then I have to buck up and cope for a while longer.

I truly hope I have an amazing recovery. Much is riding on that. Plus I'm def out of donor hair.  Kind of a kick in the nuts to have 2 great transplants with Bosley.  Then on a 3rd small procudure have it knock out all your old grafts expose your scar and be out of donor hair. Tough pill to swallow if it soed not recover.

----------


## gillenator

Some native hair that is shocked out can potentially recover a little bit quicker than the transplants themselves.

Any way that you look at it, hair follicles that go into the telogen phase will rest for 3 months on average and then re-enter the growth phase.  That's the scientific reality of how our follicles behave.

Hang in there, and before you know it, you'll start to see the new growth manifest.  :Wink:

----------


## jetfan11

Thanks Gill. I truly hope you are right. Hopefully these next 3 months will be a recovery.  I appreciate your response.  With that being said I've been trolling these sites for 3 months searching for some answers.  Truth is you Spex and all these other folks are hair transplant salesman. I'm in sales as well no disrespect to that.  You are on here looking for guys who want hair transplants hence sales for you. As a result every response you guys give on here to shockloss or any other potential problem is comically positive becuase you sell ht's.  To the conntrary every ht horror story I've read from actual patients is exactly same as mine-shock loss. Patient responses are 50/50. Sometimes it grows back sometimes it doesn't they have horrific scar and their life is ruined.

I pray mine recovers but at same time hard to put faith in the "oh. It will grow back" from someone who job and reason for being on this site is to sell ht's.

Fair?

Again appreciate the response and hope you are right.

----------


## gillenator

jetfan,

You are very welcome yet I must correct you about your category of myself as a HT salesman.  I do not sell HTs, nor am I employed by any doctor/clinic, nor do I handle any money, nor do I sell anything.  I do not have a website because I do not promote anything but help to others.

Yes there was a point more than a decade ago when I did work inside the clinic and yes I did sell HTs back then.  But after quickly learning how money oriented the industry is was the prime basis for my quitting and becoming an independent self-employed advocate. In other words, I am not under the direction or control of any employer but myself.

The amount of money that my endorsing doctors pay is menial and covers the monthly operating costs of my office and nothing more.  I operate it like a non-profit entity and fully report every penny on my tax return.  I do not earn commissions or referral fees, do not pay myself a salary.  My total income is 1200/month.  You are welcome to come anytime and look at my books.  I privately help many guys who are in need of repair and unbiased direction.  I say privately because most of these individuals do not join or participate in posting but they do read and surf the various forums diligently.  I have never nor do I ever intend to charge any patient for my help/support. 

Maybe take some time and read my past posts on any hairloss forum.  You will see that I endlessly advise/warn many patients against HT surgery, especially the younger newer more emotionally driven patients. You will see that I am truly looking to help other hairloss sufferers just like yourself without bias.  And I also have suffered hairloss over many years and had multiple procedures as a patient so I bring both personal as well as professional/clinical experience to the forums.

FYI, I spend the majority of my time as a licensed/commissioned Chaplain and spend endless hours volunteering my time in hospitals, nursing homes, juvenile detention centers, jails, and private homes offering hospice support to individuals mostly dying of late-stage cancer.  I make myself available and on call 24/7.  You see jetfan, I almost died of terminal stage lung cancer myself so I am called to minister to people who are in a place of suffering, and request my support.

Not that I am not patting myself on the back because my pastoral ministry is something personal between the Lord and myself.  As I said, I do it without taking any compensation whatsoever.  "It is better to give than to receive". Please take note that I never comment/promote about myself and that I never use the forums as a soapbox.  I do not commercially promote any of my supporting doctors either. 

My advice is to be slow to judgement and quick to offer consolance to others the same way that you yourself have received it in these forums.  Even though many doctor's reps/consultants/sales people do participate in these forums, it does not take long to see who are there to help and those who are there to promote their employers.

Take the time to get to know someone before you just label them as you never know who or what you will find.   :Wink: 

I wish you the very best in your journey my friend and truly hope you find the resolve that you are seeking.  Peace be unto you!  :Smile:

----------


## jetfan11

Gill,

I'm sorry I didn't realize all of that. It wasn't a judgement on you or your character. I mean everyone is kind of faceless on the Internet. I assumed you were making commissions of the people on this site who eventually get hair transplants with the Drs that sponsor it.  You sound like a very good person.  I've just been through hell last 3 months and if this shock loss is permanent my life may never be the same because of 1 bad decision. Can't imagine going through the rest of my life looking the way I look now or with this gigantic pulsating inch and a half bright red scar around my head. 3 months ago I had ver decent head of hair mainly transplants from 2 Bosley procedures. I got greedy went for another 1 and now 3.5 months later look worse than ever. Didnt mean to rush to judgement.  Apologies.

----------


## gillenator

jetfan,

Thank you for your kind words.  Don't worry my friend, you have not been the first one to call me a HT salesman, and you probably won't be the last.  And it's perfectly understandable that new members that do not know my history would see my presence as surfing for patients for financial gain.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

I actually intended to leave the industry completely after I left my last clinical position who's main clinic is based in Atlanta.  But several of the doctors that left that clinic at the same time were the ones that encouraged me to be an independent advocate.  In fact one of them became my first endorsing physician and here I am ten years later still helping patients.

You see, even though my intentions were to start small business management consulting, and even chartered a new company, the calls and emails from patients kept coming and found myself consoling and guiding them to whatever resolve could potentially help them.  I spent endless evenings on the phone with patients while trying to make a new business venture.

There is a certain psyche that accompanies hairloss which I experienced myself as a patient.  And many of the guys that I assist already had their surgery and typically in need of repair.  Many of them live a life under a ball cap and/or have very low self esteems.  Some of them rarely leave their homes other than for work.  My heart goes out to them.

I have always spoken out against the corruption and how I got the nickname of "Gillenator" which a less than ethical doctor gave me many years ago.  I kept the name when I joined the forums long before I became a minister. 

And maybe my emotions got the better of me as I had just got back to my office to resume my work day and see who may be requesting help on the forums.  That's when I read your post and said to myself, "If this guy only could see where I had just been this morning".

It's very humbling to spend the last days of someone's life and assist them in their death which ends up almost always, imminent.  There's a man named Chris and dying of stage 4 melanoma cancer, has a wife and three children desparing over their husband and father.  Yet I get to live and so many end up dying.  I leave the hospital, look up to the sky towards heaven and ask for His divine mercy on this man and his precious family.  Chris has lost all of his hair from the chemo and so I presently look at my own hairloss much differently.  I lost my own hair after chemo but it did grow back, but not Chris. 

I look at life much differently now.  I know that I am living on borrowed time and am thankful for every person that is put in my path.  I also have a very loving, supportive, wonderful, kind wife.  She has a heart very similiar to mine and she makes some of these visits with me on the weekends.  We make just enough money to pay our bills and we like it that way.  We try to make a difference in a world corrupt with the love of money and power.

When I go to bed at night, nothing makes me more blessed and content than knowing that I may have made a positive difference in someone's life today and am humbled and thankful for it. I apologize for rambling but I rarely discuss what I do outside of the forums and never ever thought that my life would turn out this way.

Still, you have your own challenges as we all do and want you to know that my postings to you regarding your shockloss were well intended.  Your own dilemma and feelings are just as geniune as anyone else.  This is why I continue to wish you the very best in this life and sincerely hope everything works out for you my dear friend.  :Wink:

----------


## jetfan11

I hear ya Gill. My mistake. I'm not really thinking clearly these days.  If you're not too offended I'd love your opinion on my situation.  I had 1000 grafts done by a medicore surgeon 3.5 months ago in my frontal 1/3.  Almost all of the existing hair was grafts from procedures in 04 and 08.  That whole area has been "chewed" out from graftingthe doc did. Looks way way worse than before. Also had prp and acell the day of the surgery. At 3.5 months I've seen some regrowth but no where near where I was pre op. Along with minimal regrowth some areas have thinned worse where he didn't graft. I'm 35 been on propecia/finestride for 10 years.

I'm hoping my shock loss recovers but getting worries at 3.5 months I'm not recovering like I should.

Do you think I'm behind in my recovery or to be 3.5 months out and still nott seeing major upswing I still have time for improvement.

----------


## gillenator

jetfan,

No problem my friend.  Listen, yes I have seen many cases over the years similiar to what you are experiencing, although there are variables with each case.

I have a question upfront.  Did the last doctor who did your most recent procedure shave your recipient area prior to the procedure?  The reason I ask is because whenever new grafting is being done in an area that has exisitng hair, it is crucial that the surgeon see the angulation of the exisitng hair when making new recipient sites.  The new recipient incisions must follow the direction and angulation of the exisitng hair otherwise transection of that exisitng hair can be at risk.  Transection meaning that the new incisions actually damage the underlying existing follicles beneath the scalp.  Transection is permanent damage to other nearby follilces within the area being grafted.  Transection can also occur if the grafts are not microscopically dissected and prepared. 

Now please understand, I am not saying that happened not knowing who your latest surgeon was and what exactly occurred during your procedure.  If you went to a reputable proven surgeon, then I doubt that transection is the culprit.  I do believe that some of the hair that fell out is in fact shockloss and at 3.5 months post-op, it's way too early to assume that it will not grow back.  And yes the shockloss can impact the neighboring areas even where no grafting occurred as rare as it is.

Also, having two prior procedures implies that the blood supply within the recipient area is already compromised from prior scarring.  So it is not unusual for the regrowth to take a bit longer to manifest on subsequent procedures.  I think you will see some gains in regrowth in the next 3-6 months to come.  Even with first time procedures the regrowth does not typically show itself until you get between the third and fourth month where you are right now.

Not sure what you meant when you stated that the area was "chewed out".  Did you mean from the recent procedure or the previous ones?  And did you mention which doctor did you last procedure 3.5 months ago?

As hard as it can be, give it more time as many others concur, and I think things will improve in the coming months.  Keep us posted on your progress and wish you the best. :Wink:

----------


## jetfan11

Gill,

Thanks for your response.  No they did not shave recipient area.  The Dr was a Dr. Niedbalski from Seattle Washington.  He worked for MHR for several years prob close to 10 and now has his own practice. He used right size blade and microscope dissection and all that.  So its not like I went to some 3rd world country to have it done. At the same time I've seen some mixed reviews on him so clearly not best surgeon in the world.

What do you think?

----------


## jetfan11

Oh and "chewed out" just means really really thin.

So my frontal 1/3 was pretty thick with mostly previous grafts not native hair and not its super thin. Basically see through.

----------


## win200

My hunch is that if the surrounding hair is all previously transplanted hair, you're going to see significant improvement.  Permanent shock loss is caused when the hair is already on its way out due to MPB, and the trauma from surgery just makes the hair permanently shed a bit sooner than it otherwise would. But if the hair is transplanted from the permanent zone, it's not susceptible to MPB.  Unless there was a HUGE amount of transection, which would cause permanent loss as Gill said, there's no reason to think that the shocked out prior-transplanted hair won't regrow once it's exited the telogen phase that was instigated by the surgery.  And take this as encouragement: I also had a procedure with Niedbalski, and if I experienced transection, it certainly wasn't minor, as I didn't have a drastic amount of hair fall out afterwards without recovery.  So it's unlikely that he would somehow commit widespread transection in your case.  Also, while he is not one of the elite surgeons, he's also not a rookie; he's been doing HTs for over fifteen years, I believe.  With that volume of procedures, I'd be fairly shocked if he hadn't become fairly adept at avoiding transection, which I think is a fairly rookie mistake committed by surgeons who aren't very experienced with HTs.  (Gill, may be useful for your to chime in on that point.)

Also, given how worried you are, I'd seek out a second opinion.  Steven Gable is an IAHRS surgeon in Portland.  Hasson & Wong is nearby in Vancouver.  Make an appointment, and simply ask that they examine your work and give a frank assessment.  Dr. Gable did that for me with no problem, and it was an enormous load off my mind.  He took a thorough look at my work, gave his opinion of my recovery, things he would have done differently or similarly, etc.  Second opinions never hurt, particularly if you're alarmed about the work you've received.

----------


## jetfan11

Win,

Hey buddy.  Thanks for your interest.  Im really confused about your post you said:

"I also had a procedure with Niedbalski, and if I experienced transection, it certainly wasn't minor, as I didn't have a drastic amount of hair fall out afterwards without recovery."

If it wasn't minor than that would imply you did lose a lot of hair without recovery???

Did you mean to say it certainly WAS minor?

Please clarify.  Sorry Im frikkin sensitive these days.  

You bring up a good point on transection.  Niedbalski has been around the block and back he's not elite but uses latest techniques and been doing it for 15 years.  So I guess the question is transection when planting amongst existing hairs something that only really sleazy or inexperienced surgeons do to patients or is it something a middle of the road guy like Niedbalski could do on a bad day.  You bring up a great great point there!  Is transection only likely with a really bad surgeon?

----------


## win200

Oops, I mis-typed; I meant to say any transection that I may have experienced wasn't *major*.  My mistake.

----------


## gillenator

> Oops, I mis-typed; I meant to say any transection that I may have experienced wasn't *major*.  My mistake.


 That is encouraging to hear Win.  :Smile:

----------


## gillenator

I remember him joining MHR just before I left.  I had never ever seen MHR use any scopes to dissect whatsoever and had visited and observed their clinic locations in several states.  IMHO, I would rate his results similiar to a Dr. in the same area or even a Dr. Ziering, another former MHR doctor who practices in California.

My guess then is that he instituted scopes in his private practice.  IMHO, cutting down the hair length within the recipient area is the best way to note direction and angulation.  The longer the hair length, the more gravity pulls the hair shafts downward and can be misleading.  Many docs will buzz the area down to about a 1/4 inch in length to see the acute angulation of the shorter hair shafts.   

I would still give it time and see how the overall yield manifests.  I feel better about Win's comments who also had the same doctor.

----------


## gillenator

I think it was a Dr. Melvin Meyer that also was an MHR doctor in the Seattle and Portland area and I think he was with MHR when Dr. Niedbalski started with MHR.

You see, Bosley bought out MHR several years ago and not sure if Dr. Mel Meyer went with them or if he is now retired.  From what I remember, Dr. Meyer was a good guy.  :Wink: 

My impression of Dr. Niedbalski is that he is a professional, but I have not seen much of his work other than what is at his website.

----------


## jetfan11

Hair wasn't cut, but did use microscopes to dissect new grafts and make recipient holes.

I don't think new grafts will grow in as don't remember them even being there.  I wasn't really looking for them but they didn't stay in very long.

My only hope is for shock loss of my previous grafts to grow in. Otherwise I'm screwed for life.

----------


## jetfan11

I know most of history.

My question is with a surgeon of his caliber what are chances he transected the follicles.  Or maybe just having tough shock loss through 3.5 months.  

Is transection done by only whe worst surgeons or can anyone outside the elite really screw up and damge follicles?

----------


## gillenator

> I know most of history.
> 
> My question is with a surgeon of his caliber what are chances he transected the follicles.  Or maybe just having tough shock loss through 3.5 months.  
> 
> Is transection done by only whe worst surgeons or can anyone outside the elite really screw up and damge follicles?


 It really depends on each individual doctor and how meticulous their approach is when grafting within an area that has exisitng hair.  Again I think someone like Dr. Niedbalski would be conscious and aware of that risk.  Just the fact that he is using scopes when MHR did not, is a good sign.  :Wink: 

Does the name Dr. Mel Meyer sound familiar?

----------


## jetfan11

No don't know the name.

This better grow back or I'm screwed.

----------


## win200

Just an update.  I visited a surgeon yesterday to consult on a potential follow-up procedure, and I thought I'd share the comments.  Out of consideration for the doctor's privacy, I'll say he's uniformly regarded as one of the very best surgeons in the world, but I'll stop short of identifying him.

I sat down with this clinic's consultant first, who participates on this forum, and his eyebrows shot up when I told him who had done my first procedure. "Niedbalski did that?"  I nodded.  "I have to be honest: that is far and away the best result I've ever seen from him."  He brought the doctor in.  "I've got a shocker for you--Niedbalski did that work."  The doctor walked over and took a closer look at my hair.  "Wow," he murmured.

The consultant sat down and looked me with a serious expression.  "Look, Win, we don't say this lightly... but that's superb work."  The doctor leveled his eyes at me and said, "You'd be crazy to touch it."  They asked if I was on Propecia.  When I said yes, the consultant told me, "Your hair loss worries are behind you."

All of this, obviously, was incredibly gratifying to hear.  I've never seen another transplant patient in person, so I have no idea how to compare results.  I really like my hairline, but I didn't have much concept of where this falls in the context of quality of work.  Now that I've got one of the best docs in the world telling me that's it's so good that I shouldn't tamper with it, I'm going to take his advice.  All I was curious about, anyway, was just dropping the temple corners a bit.  But no one would look at the hair on my head now and ever guess I'd experience hair loss--I'm in NW1 territory.  

And the doc is right--even in the hands of a great surgeon, something can always go wrong in a procedure.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  I'll definitely keep posting here, and I'll follow up with pictures soon, but I'm pretty much "over" hair loss.

----------


## jetfan11

> Just an update.  I visited a surgeon yesterday to consult on a potential follow-up procedure, and I thought I'd share the comments.  Out of consideration for the doctor's privacy, I'll say he's uniformly regarded as one of the very best surgeons in the world, but I'll stop short of identifying him.
> 
> I sat down with this clinic's consultant first, who participates on this forum, and his eyebrows shot up when I told him who had done my first procedure. "Niedbalski did that?"  I nodded.  "I have to be honest: that is far and away the best result I've ever seen from him."  He brought the doctor in.  "I've got a shocker for you--Niedbalski did that work."  The doctor walked over and took a closer look at my hair.  "Wow," he murmured.
> 
> The consultant sat down and looked me with a serious expression.  "Look, Win, we don't say this lightly... but that's superb work."  The doctor leveled his eyes at me and said, "You'd be crazy to touch it."  They asked if I was on Propecia.  When I said yes, the consultant told me, "Your hair loss worries are behind you."
> 
> All of this, obviously, was incredibly gratifying to hear.  I've never seen another transplant patient in person, so I have no idea how to compare results.  I really like my hairline, but I didn't have much concept of where this falls in the context of quality of work.  Now that I've got one of the best docs in the world telling me that's it's so good that I shouldn't tamper with it, I'm going to take his advice.  All I was curious about, anyway, was just dropping the temple corners a bit.  But no one would look at the hair on my head now and ever guess I'd experience hair loss--I'm in NW1 territory.  
> 
> And the doc is right--even in the hands of a great surgeon, something can always go wrong in a procedure.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  I'll definitely keep posting here, and I'll follow up with pictures soon, but I'm pretty much "over" hair loss.


 
Wish I didn't read this as I am still no where near back to pre op from all my shock loss.  From what I've heard Niedbalski is garbage as well.  I should go there and ring his neck.  

Also I don't say this to be mean or bc my situation sucks but the fact you even risked a transplant in the 1st place and checked in about another is crazy. You have a completely full head of hair.

----------


## win200

> Wish I didn't read this as I am still no where near back to pre op from all my shock loss.  From what I've heard Niedbalski is garbage as well.  I should go there and ring his neck.  
> 
> Also I don't say this to be mean or bc my situation sucks but the fact you even risked a transplant in the 1st place and checked in about another is crazy. You have a completely full head of hair.


 Well, I'm glad I took the plunge and did it, because I have a result I'm thrilled about.

But something to keep in mind: I was *pissed* about the way my hair looked until about 7-8 months.  Most people claim that you start looking decent at 3 months, but that certainly wasn't the case for me.  I was *positive* that I'd had a botched procedure.  So don't lose hope--you can have horrible-looking results at 3-4 months that look beautiful in double that time.  So wait until at least August until you decide to wring his neck.  :-p

----------


## john2399

> Well, I'm glad I took the plunge and did it, because I have a result I'm thrilled about.
> 
> But something to keep in mind: I was *pissed* about the way my hair looked until about 7-8 months.  Most people claim that you start looking decent at 3 months, but that certainly wasn't the case for me.  I was *positive* that I'd had a botched procedure.  So don't lose hope--you can have horrible-looking results at 3-4 months that look beautiful in double that time.  So wait until at least August until you decide to wring his neck.  :-p


 Im curious to see a better before picture of your hairloss, the first couple of pics did not reveal too much. If you could post a clear before pic and a now pick, btw it looks really good. congrats.

----------


## gillenator

win,

Awesome feedback from your recent consultation.

And I agree, "why fix something that is not broken?"

Enjoy your new look my friend!  :Wink:

----------


## win200

Thought I'd resurrect the thread and post some new pics, given that it's been over three months since my last update.  I got my hair buzzed to a 3 grade this morning, which made me SUPER nervous.  My hair has been really long, which, as we all know, can hide thinning, leaving a stomach-churning surprise for the poor guy who buzzes down to an unforgiving length.  I've been on Propecia since October, and while my loss has reduced, it hasn't ground to a halt.  So I was a little nervous that the buzz was going to reveal either (a) thinning immediately behind the transplants, or (b) thinning elsewhere, like in the crown or vertex.  But all went well, and I *love* the buzzed look.  The transplanted area is definitely thinner than the density behind it, unsurprisingly, and I didn't like how my hair look when it was swept back, because standing the hair at my hairline straight up had a bit of a "see-through" effect, particularly given my skin tone and dark hair color.  You can see that there's lower density at the forelock in the pics where my head is tipped down, but it's not a *drastic* difference.  The nice thing about the buzz cut is that at this length, you see scalp even at 100% density, so when some scalp shows through in the transplanted area, it seems wholly normally.  No one will notice the thinner area at the front.  

All in all, I continue to be completely happy with the hairline design and graft placement.  Honestly, I think this looks like a mature hairline, with maybe a very slight touch of recession at the corners.  My goal with a procedure was to have a hairline that didn't look like it had suffered any MPB, and I think I got that.  What would you guys call this?  NW1.5?  NW2?

Now I just have a rhinoplasty to look forward to in August...

----------


## J_B_Davis

I would call it a full head of hair! You look great!

----------


## win200

Thanks!  I'm pretty happy with it!

----------


## J_B_Davis

> Thanks!  I'm pretty happy with it!


 You should be! I never heard of your hair transplant surgeon, but he obviously knows what he is doing.  Keeps us posted on how life is going for you. It's always cool to see how people get on after they feel better about themselves.

I see all of these guys spending so much time in the cutting edge section, all very unhappy people, fighting about doctors offering this BS or that BS. They are all trying to avoid doing what you have done for yourself and that's moving forward with your life with the proven stuff that we have today, like transplants and Propecia.

It's great that you're happy with everything!

----------


## win200

> You should be! I never heard of your hair transplant surgeon, but he obviously knows what he is doing.  Keeps us posted on how life is going for you. It's always cool to see how people get on after they feel better about themselves.
> 
> I see all of these guys spending so much time in the cutting edge section, all very unhappy people, fighting about doctors offering this BS or that BS. They are all trying to avoid doing what you have done for yourself and that's moving forward with your life with the proven stuff that we have today, like transplants and Propecia.
> 
> It's great that you're happy with everything!


 Thanks again, and I agree.  I go to the cutting edge section every now and then to sort of keep an eye on any developments, but it's too easy to get sucked in and go down that rabbit hole.  I do have the luxury of having minimal loss and having had a procedure that brings me essentially to a full head of hair, so it's easier for me than for many others to simply shrug and go my own way.  But I can't spend hours a day on the forums parsing over every shred of data about every possible new treatment.

----------


## inspects

Hi Win,

I haven't been around lately, been in South America building some Condos.

Anyway, I just wanted to tell you your hair look really magnificent.

I don't have any recent photos, I have one from Breckenridge Colorado in April and one from about a week after my transplant in August of last year...going on my 12 month in a few weeks.

Been saying I need to make a profile with pictures from start to finish like you and others did, I will in the near future, I promise, I been really busy the last several months with different business ventures



This past April in Breckenridge Colorado.



Anyway, I'm happy with the results...I had 2500 FUT, I'm on Propecia and Minoxidil. I don't see any hair loss now, and I'm very happy with the results, like you. 

You do have MUCH more hair than I. I'll be 57 in November, so not having a really thick head of hair doesn't bother me.

BUT, I'm getting another procedure done this fall or winter, my doctor said another 1,000 grafts should completely fill in everything nicely. So what the hell, may as well do it, what's a couple-five Grand, better living the life we want than caring about a few grand.

Anyway, be well my friend.

Cheers,

Dale

----------


## drybone

Hey Dale. 

Your hair looks great dude!!

 :Smile:

----------


## santos

Win: That looks Great! I live in Kent WA. So thanks for the info on this Doc.

----------


## gillenator

I think your result looks very natural Dale.

We are very close in age and even your density looks natural.

Best wishes to you on your upcoming touch-up procedure.  :Wink:

----------


## ukw

This has been an illuminating thread.

The author of the thread stated that long after the surgery he was still taking Propecia. Is he still on Propecia? What would happen if you stop it? Is it really necessary 2-3 years post-op?

----------


## win200

Well, this old thread just got reactivated.

Yes, I'm still taking Propecia, and I'm also taking Avodart, which is its more-potent cousin.  I continued to lose some, albeit not much, hair on Propecia, but Avodart basically stops my loss.

It's been 26 months since my procedure and the work continues to look great.  I wear it long on top and swept back, and I'm thrilled with the results.  

To answer your question, YES, you need to continue to use Propecia after you have a procedure.  If you stop using it, you will lose all the native hair that you would have lost while you were on the medication.  As a result, Propecia is particularly important for guys that have had transplants... if you bald normally without a transplant, you'll just look like a bald guy, but if you bald normally WITH a transplant, you'll have a very funny look going on.

----------


## ukw

> To answer your question, YES, you need to continue to use Propecia after you have a procedure.  If you stop using it, you will lose all the native hair that you would have lost while you were on the medication.  As a result, Propecia is particularly important for guys that have had transplants... if you bald normally without a transplant, you'll just look like a bald guy, but if you bald normally WITH a transplant, you'll have a very funny look going on.


  ... but still better than a bald look, surely? Isn't it possible to distribute the grafts in such a way that, while not all that dense, they still provide good cosmetics even in case of any other hair loss?

What I'm hearing you say is that an HT "without consequences" is indicated only for those who are at the very end of the balding process.

In any other case, what's the difference between HT+Propecia vs. just Propecia?

----------


## hairguy77

your first post is where I am at now but older and been on propecia for years and foam last 8 months.. i want to do a procedure to thicking my frontal hair, docs saying 1500 to make it look good
but i am terrified of shock loss, having a hard time with it

----------

