# Hair Transplants > Hair Transplant: Start Your Own Topic >  Had my first HT what next / NW6

## vinnytr

After a lot of research, i finally managed to get my HT done 3 weeks ago ( october 2012) by Dr Hakan Doganay in Turkey . 
He planted 4016 grafts (around 1000 of these being beard hair grafts) using choi implanter pen and i am super happy with the result at the age of 36 although i have a small 1000-1500 graft section on my crown that is still quite bald. I may have another session using beard hair again some day as i am not keen on having my hair donor used for that. Plus beard seems to heal 5 times faster compared to hair donor area .

Anyway , its been 3 weeks since the HT and the shock loss has already started so everything seems to be going as it should . 
My question here is regarding the long term maintenance of it all. 
I want to make sure i dont loose my native hair and in the meantime strengthen the tranplanted hair . 
I am not going anywhere near propecia but would consider other treatments. The cost is not the priority either ,but health and safety is !! 

At this point i am only using 5mg biotin a day and nothing else . 
I have got 2 bottles of revivogen and 3 bottles of rogaine foam which i have not touched since the HT . 

Could/should i use nizoral 2% at this point (3 weeks after HT) 
If so ,how often should i use it ?

Thanks in advance for the replies  :Smile: 

p.s : will add pics later

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## vinnytr

here are pics showing before and 1 week after the HT.

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## Winston

The work looks very good at this point. Good luck!

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## gillenator

vinny, I would give it more time post-op before applying any topicals that could induce a shed.  Your scalp is still recovering from the trauma so adding anything that could potentially affect the initial regrowth should be avoided  at this point in time IMHO.

Best wishes to you!  :Wink:

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## dex89

It looks really good  :Big Grin:  how much was this procedure?

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## vinnytr

Thanks for the replies guys ,yes very early days to comment really because most HTs i have seen look similar for a while. I am hoping all those grafts will return back to me starting from 3.5 month onwards  :Smile: 

Like i said i have done my research before i made the decision who gets to de-virginize my donor area. lol
The surgeon that HT ed me has a real good reputation and yield.
I have not only looked at before and after pictures but physically went over to see a few random HT patients of his in flesh in may . 

Dex , that depends on the amount of grafts,whether some will be BHT(beard)  and days they will have to spend for you . But it was no where even near US or Europe prices.

Gill , yes i have noticed a few teenager spots on my scalp which i am hoping they will go on their own soon . I wont be taking anything for a while ,in my experience the grafted hair does come out regardless of what you use .
i.e : friend of mine never took a thing after HT ,he was only fully happy with the result at the 10th month. Up untill then he though the grafts were dead.

But i still will need something ,one major medicine/topical etc to keep maintain my native hair for the future . Perhaps by the time i start worrying about that ,the real cure will be out there .Here is hopin  :Smile:  :Smile:

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## kundun

I was in Turkey on holiday. I read about this Dr Doganay and his hair transplants from beard hair. On a rainy day I have visited the clinic. Clinic looked good. Not design like clinics I saw in Istanbul. But who cares about that.
Dr Doganay was very friendly and took all the time to explain everything to me. You have to stay in the hospital for 2 days. 

@ vinnytr do you have photo's of the beard area after extraction of the beardhair as I wonder if there are no scars ?

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## Breaking Bald

Can you give me more info about this Dr? How experienced is he? What made you choose him?

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## vinnytr

Here is the beard area couple hours after extraction . I have been told by the nurses i have not bled as much and i believe thats down to me being a non smoker etc .
After a week i could not even tell where the beard grafts were taken from .
Its been a  month now and i will take a close up picture after i have a fresh shave.

@breakingbald 

Hakan doganay had/has a good reputation on the internet over in Turkey ,that was the thing which attracted my attention at first . Obviously that was not on its own enough to go ahead so i started my research ,learning about his work , finding people that had HT done by him and ask about their experiences . 
I was extremely skeptical about anyone that i would allow to touch my hair .I needed to be 110% sure before i could make a choice especially after seeing people that had their lives destroyed by butchers out there  :Mad: 
I would rather remain bald than become worse .

Other things that made me choose him were ;
- Him doing the entire implanting himself (4016 grafts in my case)
- Choi implanter technique ; When i asked even on here ,i had really bad replies regarding the use of a choi pen . However this guy seemed to make wonders with it . I am quite good with mechanics and how things work . To me ,the use of choi implanter made perfect sense .Because he was not making slits or holes to plant grafts in them .He was injecting the graft as the whole was being made with the same pen !! Making the gap smaller hence less bleeding and faster healing .  
I still dont understand why people think choi implanter is crap ??? 
The only downside i have seen is that it requires a lot of staff . This Dr had 7 nurses present on my HT . 
- Beard hair transplant , i have a large recipient area to cover and not a great donor as you can see . It would be impossible to even consider HT if he did not do beard hair.

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## kundun

Vinnytr thanks for the info.
Dr Doganay had drawn my attention after I had seen a HT from someone in Antwerpen (who apparently also knows you...) He posts pics on a regular basis. Have to admit it looks very good.
Both of you speak Turkish which is an advantage. I had problems contacting them due to language problems. When I visited them to asked a translator to help.
What worries me is if there remain scars in the beard area. Both of apparently don't have any.

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## vinnytr

Ok here are 1 month beard donor area pictures after a cleanish shave .

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## vinnytr

> Vinnytr thanks for the info.
> Dr Doganay had drawn my attention after I had seen a HT from someone in Antwerpen (who apparently also knows you...) He posts pics on a regular basis. Have to admit it looks very good.
> Both of you speak Turkish which is an advantage. I had problems contacting them due to language problems. When I visited them to asked a translator to help.
> What worries me is if there remain scars in the beard area. Both of apparently don't have any.


 Language should not be an issue , Dr Doganay told me he is recruiting a german/english speaker just to deal with patients from outside Europe . 
When i was over there for my HT last month he sounded very enthusiastic about sharing his work on various international forums. 
I am awaiting some pictures from his other patients mainly local ones where he can track their progress regularly and take pics .
I will share them on the forum as well as my own .

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## kundun

Thanks for the pics. Looks good.

I don't see any scars in the beard area only some irritation from wrong growing hair but that will disappear.
When I was there a few weeks ago Dr Doganay told me that a translater was starting in January.

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## kundun

@ Vinnytr : I read the postings from you before your HT regarding the Choi implanterpen.
Do you know how Dr Doganay handles multiple grafts with the pen ?

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## vinnytr

> @ Vinnytr : I read the postings from you before your HT regarding the Choi implanterpen.
> Do you know how Dr Doganay handles multiple grafts with the pen ?


 Yes those were the times i was researching about his technique and i was shocked by the amount of negative views regarding choi implanter . However i am a quite mechanically minded guy myself and after seeing how it works the use of a choi implanter pen compared to cutting slits on your scalp to insert grafts in made more sense to me. I have also seen Dr Doganay s results with lots of patients which did help too .
I think i found the answer to the question "why does not other ht surgeons use choi implanter pen ?"  From what i have seen the simple answer is ,this technique requires a larger team of nurses to seperate / clean grafts and constantly  re-fill the choi pens during translant.


He uses different diameter pens for different grafts , max diameter was 0.9mm if i remember correctly .

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## kundun

Vinnytr thanks for your info.

I have seen a video where they used the choi pen. I saw several people filling the pen. Much more people were needed compared with traditional slits.

Probably it is still to realy to say something about your status ?

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## vinnytr

you are welcome  :Smile: 

Yeah very early days for me still . I am reaching 2 month mark and as you can guess its the hardest .Most of the planted hair has fallen off ,the rest kept growing in unequal lengths . Now encouraging part is ,i can see various hair follicules coming out of the scalp ,like for the first time  :Big Grin: 

I think , like it happened to most dr doganay patients ,quite a big percentage of hairs will be coming out around 4 month mark and go on .
He recommends starting proscar 1.25 mg 1  month before the HT to help reduce shock loss of planted hairs . I never used fin ,i never will .
Currently all i am using is zinc,biotin and rogaine foam (after 1 month of HT)

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## Jairus

Good lad Vinny, Im having my first HT in a few months and its nice to see someone who will not be using Fin post operation. I am of a similar opinion.

I am an NW3 but I have relatively thick hair from the middle of my scalp backwards. I will prob need another procedure before Histogen/Aderans arrive but I think I can cover up with Toppik until then. My rate of hair loss is pretty slow.

Good Luck

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## kundun

I used Fina for a half year, years ago. But stopped due to too many side effects. Think that stuff can't be healthy.
On Sunday I will visit a belgian guy who had his HT with Dr Doganay in June.
Am very curious to see it and if there are no scars in the beard area.
Seems to mee Doganay uses beard area with most patients.

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## gillenator

Would love to see more pics of final beard results.

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## vinnytr

> Would love to see more pics of final beard results.


 There is absolutely nothing i can see on the beard area to be honest but i dont have a clean shave that often . lol 
I will get one soon and get pics up for you no probs .

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## gillenator

> There is absolutely nothing i can see on the beard area to be honest but i dont have a clean shave that often . lol 
> I will get one soon and get pics up for you no probs .


 Look forward to it!

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## kundun

@ Vinntr : how does your donor look now ? On your pics from 11-1-12 it looks as of your is heavily picked. It looks very poor afer the HT. Did it recover ? Do you have pics of how it looks now ?
I am thinking about a treatment at Aspendos. Visited this weekend someone who had a treatment in June to look at his beard area. Someone I know will have a treatment at the end of the month and is very interesedted in your donor now.

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## vinnytr

Sorry peeps been busy , i will get you new pics in a few days  :Smile:

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## vinnytr

Ok here are my 2 months update .These are the hardest times i think ,it just feels like they are never gonna come back . But hopefully they will . 

Had a hair cut to number 2 at the top and 1.5 at the sides and back . 
The barber i go to once every 2 months or so have not noticed a thing ,i tried hard to tip him by mentioning i am getting too many spots on my scalp etc  but no i dont think he has got a clue  :Smile: 

After seeing the pics i am quite happy with the donor areas myself  :Smile:  

Pics

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## kundun

It looks good to me. And no scars in the beard. But that was also what I saw last Sunday at the Belgium guy in Antwerp. I think Dr Doganay does good work.
Be a bit patient. I think in a month time they will start to grow.
Thanks for the pics.

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## Artista

Vinny, those were great 2 month photos you've provided to us. 
                      No 'Post-Op Blues' for you ,I bet!
When I see great HT progressions and great outcomes (which you obviously will have) I become even more emboldened to have a hair transplant (1 or 2 sessions) applied to myself.  Please keep the updates coming Vinny..Im glad for you brother.

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## vinnytr

Thanks for the positive words guys . 
Believe it or not i still do have the post op blues . Time doesnt seem to go fast enough . I should find things to keep me occupied .

Wish you all the best , i will keep sharing my progress  :Cool:

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## Artista

Understood Vinny but from this vantage point though, that your HT looks great.  Believe me when i say  that it is very obvious that you will regain the confidence lost from your earlier hairloss.  I'm actually a bit surprised that you are experiencing 'post-op blues' albeit minor. Then again, I have yet to experience what you are going through first hand...YET.  Thanks again

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## Delphi

So far so good. The work looks nice.

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## drybone

> Thanks for the positive words guys . 
> Believe it or not i still do have the post op blues . Time doesnt seem to go fast enough . I should find things to keep me occupied .
> 
> Wish you all the best , i will keep sharing my progress


 Hey Vinny. I hear you bud. I just had my first HT on Nov 17th. Its one month ago today and I still try to look at it every 5 min in the mirror. Perhaps I will have a full head of hair 5 min from now better go check ~~  :Big Grin: 

I had 1333 grafts done in the front of my head . Most of it has fallen out by now but my scalp is still pink . 

I will also share my photos before and after so everyone can see it.

Yours looks great so far. You will have a great head of hair when it all grows in.

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## kundun

Hi Vinny,

Any news ?
When did the transplanted hair fall out ?
I made an appointment at Aspendos for May.
Quite a problem when you don't speak Turkish.
Someone who had his treatment there in September was very helpfull and did the translating for me.

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## vinnytr

Transplanted hairs started falling out after 2 weeks ,it was sad but just before my 3.5 months is coming now i can see more and more of them little devils coming out of the scalp  :Smile:  


Done a good job booking your HT  with dr doganay , all the best of luck .
Keep us posted as well .

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## drybone

Question: 

I have 2 months in and i can see some of the hairs like little fleas poking out of the skin they look like dots. But there only seem to be like 100 of them at most. 

Is it possible to have some of them fall out, some just sit still, and others not fall out at all before they all start growing? 

A combo?

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## gillenator

drybone,

It sounds like things are starting earlier for you than most of us. Congrats.  It will be interesting to see how both vinny and you come along in the next several months.

And they sprout intermittently, so there's more to come!  :Smile:

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## drybone

> drybone,
> 
> It sounds like things are starting earlier for you than most of us. Congrats.  It will be interesting to see how both vinny and you come along in the next several months.
> 
> And they sprout intermittently, so there's more to come!


 Thanks dude. And while I am at it, thanks for all kinds of advice of yours I have read here on dozens of threads. 

You have helped us a lot  :Smile:

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## gillenator

Thanks drybone, that's very humbling.

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## kundun

Hi Vinny,

Any news ? Is it starting to grow ?

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## arkeye

Hi vinny do u mind me asking how much the fue cost? All looking really good and giving me more confidence to book myself in for fue

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## kundun

€ 1  for normal hair. € 1.50 for beard hair.
Perhaps you have to pay more because prices went up this year. For that reason I made the appoinment already last year.
They are booked full for 3 months. So If you decide to go you have to make an appointment in time.
You have to ask someone to translate the mails for you into Turkish because they don't speak English.
When I visited the clinic in October I had to wait till a translater came.

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## vinnytr

Just gone past the 4 month mark , its very promising and still looking very natural as ever  :Smile:  I can see and feel with my fingertips more hairs sprouting from the scalp as well  :Smile:  
Will be sharing a picture soon . 

Kundun , they are not great english speakers . Thats the main reason Dr Doganay himself asked me to work for him in order to act as a uk/europe representative as I am based in the uk myself .

If anyone on here thinking of a fue with the doctor and finding the language barrier an issue . Feel free to drop me a line at schakax@hotmail.com

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## vinnytr

picture taken at 4 months

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## drybone

Wow Vinny that looks great !!!!  :Smile:  I am almost at the 3 month mark and I am starting to see the smallest little sprouts poke through !!! I can see it best with the natural light . Under light bulbs they become invisible again  :Frown: 

I am taking pics once a month , then at 6 months am going to put them all up. 

Before hair transplant, then surgery, post op, one month two etc.... :Cool: 

Keep posting pics !!! They inspire the rest of us !!!

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## ray1

> Just gone past the 4 month mark , its very promising and still looking very natural as ever  I can see and feel with my fingertips more hairs sprouting from the scalp as well  
> Will be sharing a picture soon . 
> 
> Kundun , they are not great english speakers . Thats the main reason Dr Doganay himself asked me to work for him in order to act as a uk/europe representative as I am based in the uk myself .
> 
> If anyone on here thinking of a fue with the doctor and finding the language barrier an issue . Feel free to drop me a line at schakax@hotmail.com


 Hi, i tried to email you but the address didnt work.

was hoping to ask you a few questions as i am in touch with Dr Hakan.

Regards.

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## baldozer

> here are pics showing before and 1 week after the HT.


 It looks amazing. As far as I now, one graft from head equals to 2-3 hair, but 1 graft of beard only 1 hair. Is it dense enough to be equal to 2-3 hair of the head? Secondly, how much this procedure costed you?

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## gillenator

Although facial hair is primarily established with single hair FUs, the caliber is almost always more coarse providing excellent visual coverage.  :Wink:

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## drybone

> It looks amazing. As far as I now, one graft from head equals to 2-3 hair, but 1 graft of beard only 1 hair. Is it dense enough to be equal to 2-3 hair of the head? Secondly, how much this procedure costed you?


 I dont know about Vinny , but mine cost $3 per graft. There is a guy in colorado who charges $2 per graft now. 

Hopefully one day it will be $1 and even .50 cents per graft with mechanical punch grafts to cut down on labor. 

 :Smile:

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## vinnytr

> Hi, i tried to email you but the address didnt work.
> 
> was hoping to ask you a few questions as i am in touch with Dr Hakan.
> 
> Regards.


 Whats your email address ray ?

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## vinnytr

Just an update as I am reaching 6 months after HT in a  few days. 
I will upload a new picture tonight or tomorrow and from what I can see I am about 99% happy with having an HT in terms of natural look improvement etc. 
However at this point I am only 60% happy with the density but this might well be to do with human nature getting greedier with whatever he/she is given !! 

At the end of the day I have had 4000 grafts to a NW6 area and had to leave the crown untouched due to lack of grafts . 

I know the story about yield results changing from person to person and it longing up to a year or even longer SO ,
My question to the FUE veterans ; 

REALISTICLY !!  Should I expect any more new hairs coming from under the scalp or would this be pretty much it ? 

Also I have been keeping an eye on this 1 particular hair graft on my hairline which seems to be growing a mm a month or so  . Its a nice thick graft of hair but doesnt seem to grow as fast as others around . 
Can anybody think of an explanation as to why this is happening ?  :Confused:

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## gillenator

IMHO, you definitely have more regrowth coming.  On average at six months post-op, about two-thirds of the regrowth has occurred.

There are still some follicles waiting to sprout and the speed of the growth varies as well.

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## vinnytr

6 months since the HT .

I am hoping this is just the 2/3 of the hairs and I will have more density like you say Gillenator 

Fingers + toes all crossed  :Smile:

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## kundun

Vinny it will further improve. Be patient.
I had 2 years ago a HT with GHO. Biggest part started to grow after 8 months.

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## drybone

Looks good Vinny !!!  :Smile:

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## gillenator

> 6 months since the HT .
> 
> I am hoping this is just the 2/3 of the hairs and I will have more density like you say Gillenator 
> 
> Fingers + toes all crossed


 I do not ever gamble but if I did, I would bet the farm that you have more coming!  :Big Grin:

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## kundun

Hi Vinny,

Is there any news on your status ?

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## 35YrsAfter

> Vinny it will further improve. Be patient.
> I had 2 years ago a HT with GHO. Biggest part started to grow after 8 months.


 One of the toughest things about hair restoration surgery is patiently waiting for the hair to grow and produce acceptable coverage.  It's tough for patients and it's frustrating for me as well. I have lost count of the number of hair restoration surgeries I've had since I was 27 years old.  I believe it's around eleven.  I really hated losing my hair and that's why I can relate to guys in their early 20's asking why they have to wait until they're 29 to restore their hair.  I would be a slick Norwood 6 if it weren't for the grafts.  I always have a little anxiety related to growth, but it has always grown. Even the early surgeries that later had to be repaired because my hair didn't look natural.  Six months ago, I had 500 beard grafts placed into two stubborn areas on top of my head.  It seems like it has taken forever for it to grow, but it is growing.  I also have a tendency to be too careful with the scabs/crusts even at day 12.

35YrsAfter works at Dr. Cole's office
www.forhair.com

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## gillenator

35yearsAfter,

How long have the beard grafts grown in length?  Although it's only been six months, how would rate the yield so far out of the 500 grafts?

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## 35YrsAfter

> 35yearsAfter,
> 
> How long have the beard grafts grown in length?  Although it's only been six months, how would rate the yield so far out of the 500 grafts?


 A fair amount of my beard is white.  It looks like Dr. Cole cherry-picked some black hairs.  The hair length so far varies.  Most of the hairs at this point are about 5mm in length. One white hair stands out at about 3.5 cm.  The beard hairs look thick and should offer some decent coverage even at a lower density.

The beard hairs seem slower at emerging than other hair I have had moved.  I believe there is some truth to the idea/theory that certain areas of scalp are more resistant to hair growth.

35YrsAfter works at Dr. Cole's office
www.forhair.com

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## gillenator

I think we both are close in age and some of my transplants are losing pigmentation.  But it is gradual so it does not look unnatural.  Even if some of those darker grafts turn white, it should still look good because of the additional coverage.

When you say "thick", I presume you mean thick in caliber?

And time will tell on your yield from it, wish you a good result including longer length.

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## kundun

I had my treatment with Doganay a month ago.
I had several Hairtreatments earlier (2 Fut's) and a HST with GHO.
The last one gave a very disappointing result. 
I was worried about my donor and become interested in Doganay because he uses beardhair. 
About half of the grafts came from the beard.
It al made a very good impression on me.
Very modern Private Clinic.
Due to these pens they use to implant the grafts the recovery time was very quick.
Most surprising was the recovery in the beard area. After 3 days I shaved and you saw nothing anymore. Although the skin still felt sensitive for another few days.
The day after the treatment they put a special body lotion from Bayer on my head and beard for 45 minutes. This I also had to do the next days twice a day to remove the crusts. After the bodylotion I had to wash the hair very carefully.
I am now a month later mosts of the grafts have fallen out.
Now the waiting has started.

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## gillenator

kundun,

Congrats on your berad grafts.  Hope they grow well for you and let us know how the yield goes.

When you state "implanter", did they use the "Choi Implanter" or was it one that another doctor developed?

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## kundun

Yes they used these Choi Implanter Pen.
In the afternoon 2 doctors were injecting the hair. 5 ladies filling the Choi Pens.
In Europe this would be impossible to do because it is too work intensive.

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## gillenator

> Yes they used these Choi Implanter Pen.
> In the afternoon 2 doctors were injecting the hair. 5 ladies filling the Choi Pens.
> In Europe this would be impossible to do because it is too work intensive.


 I was just curious to see if any other clinics were using the Choi Implanter which I understand that DHI developed sometime around 2003.

Wishing you the best in regrowth and the final result. Thanks for sharing your case with us.  :Wink:

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## kundun

I don't think many clinics use the Choi pen due to the work intensity.
I know GHO is experimenting with injection of hair roots.
When I had my transplant there 2 years ago he injected a few. It could have been a Choi pen. For sure it was not a high tech equipment.
With the prices GHO has and the small treatment he does you can do it with a Choi pen.

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## kundun

@Vinnytr : do you have an update ?

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## vinnytr

> @Vinnytr : do you have an update ?


 
Still not very happy with the density at 8.5 months.

I will share a photo soon .

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## KO1

Awesome, looking forard to it.

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## ericjasonp

Are you using Rogaine?  My doctor said it helps thicken the hair.

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## kundun

Vinny, it will further improve.
When I had my treatment with Gho 2 years ago it also took very long.
I understood you were in Turkey. Have you visited the clinic ?

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## vinnytr

Photo taken today .

Not using rogaine as liquid version gave me a bad itch and dandruff .
Taking biotin from the beginning .

@Kundun ; Yes but didnt have a chance to visit the clinic .

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## KO1

Looks decent, it was a slick bald area from the start. Have you tried styling your hair differently, eg comb forward.

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## kundun

From top of the head it looks always worse than from the front is my opinion.
Made a pic of my head yesterday. Was shocked how bald I am...
Am now on 7 weeks after HT.
DR. Doganay advised biotine against shockloss. I was already using it over a year but still main part fell out.
I started using minox 5 weeks as adviced by Dr. Doganay. Have no dandruff. 
Perhaps you should try the foam.

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## vinnytr

> From top of the head it looks always worse than from the front is my opinion.
> Made a pic of my head yesterday. Was shocked how bald I am...
> Am now on 7 weeks after HT.
> DR. Doganay advised biotine against shockloss. I was already using it over a year but still main part fell out.
> I started using minox 5 weeks as adviced by Dr. Doganay. Have no dandruff. 
> Perhaps you should try the foam.


 I totally agree ,it looks good from the front  :Smile: 

I used foam before and I never had problems , might go back to that .

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## kundun

I started using Keratene a few days ago.
Don't know if it will do something.
Read on the forum that someone whose blood was tested had no drop in DHT level.

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## KO1

you should experiment with concealer like Toppik, it will really help you IMO.

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## vinnytr

I quit liquid minox a while ago because it was giving me a super nasty itch and dandruff . 2 weeks after I quit all was good again.
 I thought I should make use of the remaining minox and gave it another shot a few days ago . Applied at night before bed and applied again in the morning . That day my head was itching like mad . Needless to say I washed head and quit right away :-/

Ordered minox foam which I have used in the past without problems .
Will start that as soon as it arrives .

I also started taking proscar a week a go , I am sort of roughly breaking 1 pill in to 8 pieces giving me 0.6 mg ish a day . No side affects so far and if I see the slighthest of side affect ,I will quit immediately !!

I would really love to be able to get a DHT test before this but I could not manage to find a place in the uk that will do a proper DHT test  :Frown:  
Anyone with ideas ?? 

@KO1 : 
I have got Caboki which is similar to Toppik but it gets really messy while applying and it comes off in my hand when i touch my hair . 
How do you manage to get undetectable use out of it ?

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## kundun

I was sing toppik before HT.
Was using the spray applicator.
No mess  in that way.

I used fine years ago but had rightaway serious sides .

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## KO1

I use it lightly. The goal isnt to give you a full head of hair, but just improvement IMO. Don't depend on it too much, just dust it lightly to add volume. Toppik doesn't come off the hair as easily I think.

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## vinnytr

> I use it lightly. The goal isnt to give you a full head of hair, but just improvement IMO. Don't depend on it too much, just dust it lightly to add volume. Toppik doesn't come off the hair as easily I think.


 
No of course I would be  after a little improvement not a full head of hair with caboki/toppik. But i cant seem to get it right whatever i tried and gave up .

The spray applicator thing KUNDUN ,mentions might be a bit more useful though.

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## 35YrsAfter

> No of course I would be  after a little improvement not a full head of hair with caboki/toppik. But i cant seem to get it right whatever i tried and gave up .
> 
> The spray applicator thing KUNDUN ,mentions might be a bit more useful though.


 At Dr. Cole's office our patients seem to like like Nanogen brand concealer products.  Some patients who need to return to work a few days after FUE surgery will opt for a non-shaven procedure and use Nanogen concealer to keep their HT surgery private when returning to an office setting.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
www.forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.  Ask for Chuck

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## vinnytr

9 months

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## KO1

I think the result is decent and what you can expect for covering a large area. Do you have plans on getting another round? I think to fill up the midscalp could be good.

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## kundun

To me it looks as if there are spots with few/no hair. Only the crown was not treated. It seems to me that not all grafts have produced hair (yet).
What does Dr. Doganay say ? Wait till the first 12 months have passed ?

----------


## vinnytr

Here is a photo taken under better daylight. 
I think the yield hasn't been great considering I had 4000 grafts. 
Dr Doganay said to wait for the full 12 months to pass.

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## kundun

You have another 3 months to go.
Let's hope it improves.
But have the impression the after care of this clinic is not good once you have paid .

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## Artista

Vinny,,thank you! I know that you will be a HAPPIER man in a few months time

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## sausage

Hows this going Vinny?

It looks good buzzed down in your original photos of after the transplant.......the latest pics look quite patchy grown out. Your hair is jet black.....is that your natural colour?

Hope the rest grows out......maybe best to keep it buzzed?

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## 35YrsAfter

> Here is a photo taken under better daylight. 
> I think the yield hasn't been great considering I had 4000 grafts. 
> Dr Doganay said to wait for the full 12 months to pass.


 One thing to remember too is, people don't often get a view straight down at the top of your head.  Those situations bring to mind escalators, an upper mall level or passengers just taking off in a hot-air balloon.  People mostly will remember your appearance from the front and side angles. 

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.  Ask for Chuck

----------


## vinnytr

Buzzed it yesterday and took a photo today . It looks worse when its buzzed down in my opinion . 
I have been in touch with the doctor and sent him photos too though and he agrees some grafts did not survive by the looks of things .

He thinks this might be down to insufficient blood flow and nutritional deficiency.
Does this make sense ? Could some of my planted grafts die because of this ?

I dont know whether to have anything checked based on this information , like a blood test perhaps ? What can I do to stop this from happening again if i have another HT in the future ?

@Sausage , Yes jet black is my natural colour although I have a lot of greys on both sides  :Frown: 

Here is a photo taken today .

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## aim4hair

If you did not have a strip HT. i suggest to buzz it down to grade 1 or 1/2.
I think that would look the best since your face is framed and grade 1 or 1/2 on top will make the bald or thin spots look much better

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## DAVE52

> If you did not have a strip HT. *i suggest to buzz it down to grade 1 or 1/2.
> *I think that would look the best since your face is framed and grade 1 or 1/2 on top will make the bald or thin spots look much better


 +1
Agree
It looks neater buzzed down
Post a pic from the front , not the top .

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## steve66

Hi vinnytr an hair laser comb could thicken your hair, ive got 1 and its the 21
laser from laser gain, this could help you without useing all the other stuff.

so have a look, and see what you think

 laa the best   steve

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## vinnytr

> Hi vinnytr an hair laser comb could thicken your hair, ive got 1 and its the 21
> laser from laser gain, this could help you without useing all the other stuff.
> 
> so have a look, and see what you think
> 
>  laa the best   steve


 Steve , The impression I had was that the laser combs were a total waste of time and money . Have you personally had any gains from this yourself ? 
What makes you recommend it over all the other stuff ?

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## sausage

get another hair transplant. That is my 2 cents.

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## steve66

Hi vinnytr yeah i dont mean the laser. is better than all the other stuff, as such

 ive been useing the laser now, for over a year, and it as thickened the hair up alot. 

what i use is
1 5% MINOXIDIL
2 5% FINATERIDE
3 2% NIZAROL
4 laser gain 3 times aweek half an hour each time.

and biotin and vitamin tablets, m 55 yearrs old, and ive been looseing my hair, from the age of 18, ive tryed everything possible, to keep my hair, and at the moment, this seems to work for me. it just may help you, you know in the fight,
against hair loss, youve got to it it, at all angles, if you know, what i mean..??

whish you all, the best mate

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## 35YrsAfter

> Buzzed it yesterday and took a photo today . It looks worse when its buzzed down in my opinion . 
> I have been in touch with the doctor and sent him photos too though and he agrees some grafts did not survive by the looks of things .
> 
> He thinks this might be down to insufficient blood flow and nutritional deficiency.
> Does this make sense ? Could some of my planted grafts die because of this ?
> 
> I dont know whether to have anything checked based on this information , like a blood test perhaps ? What can I do to stop this from happening again if i have another HT in the future ?
> 
> @Sausage , Yes jet black is my natural colour although I have a lot of greys on both sides 
> ...


 Good blood circulation does help hair to a degree.  There are medications that can cause hair loss.  Google, over the counter meds as well as any others you are using just to be sure.  If you are taking a medication your doctor has determined necessary for your health, ask him about an alternative.

Hair loss caused by nutritional deficiency is relatively rare these days.  In my opinion, you should avoid GMO foods and too much fast food.  If in doubt, take a good multi-vitamin and/or an organic supplement like Raw Meal.  At this point, you shouldn't be timid about brushing your hair.  A medium-stiff hair brush can stimulate circulation.  Only hairs that are ready to come out will come out as long as you avoid ripping a brush through your hair.  With short hair that is unlikely.

These are my opinions and should not be interpreted as medical advice.  I'm not a doctor.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
Cole Hair Transplant
Atlanta
Phone 678-566-1011
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.  Ask for Chuck

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## kundun

Vinny, did Dr Doganay propose to give you another HT to improve the result or was the answer just the reason is blood flow and nutrition bad luck for you ?

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## vinnytr

> Good blood circulation does help hair to a degree.  There are medications that can cause hair loss.  Google, over the counter meds as well as any others you are using just to be sure.  If you are taking a medication your doctor has determined necessary for your health, ask him about an alternative.
> 
> Hair loss caused by nutritional deficiency is relatively rare these days.  In my opinion, you should avoid GMO foods and too much fast food.  If in doubt, take a good multi-vitamin and/or an organic supplement like Raw Meal.  At this point, you shouldn't be timid about brushing your hair.  A medium-stiff hair brush can stimulate circulation.  Only hairs that are ready to come out will come out as long as you avoid ripping a brush through your hair.  With short hair that is unlikely.
> 
> These are my opinions and should not be interpreted as medical advice.  I'm not a doctor.
> 
> 35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
> Cole Hair Transplant
> 1045 Powers Place
> ...


 
Thanks for the reply. 
I am not on any medications at all or have any health issues 
I have been using biotin 5000 daily since the 
HT . I have started using FIN in the form of proscar roughly cut into 7-8 pieces since beginning of July. So that's between 0.6-0.7 mg a day. 
So far I have not seen any side affects but , I am having a massive shed on the native hair. Shedding hairs are really thin and lifeless. I am hoping they will return back thicker ???
I am also back on rogaine foam since the 1st of July.

Are there any other known / logical reasons for only some of the grafts to die but the rest to survive ?

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## steve66

Hi vinnytr, thats why i told you, about the laser gain, it will strenthen the hair follicles. and make the strands of hair thicker.? ive been useing it, over 12 months now, and it as thickened my hair. and im 55 years old, and allso tryed everything, thats on the market, with no results and a waste of money. in fact i was goin to give, all hair treatments a miss, because there all conmen, selling this and that, and it does not work. but i decided, to give it, another go...

and now im on

1 5mg finasteride
2 nizarol 2%
3 5% minoxidil
4 biotin tabs just started useing
5 laser gain  use 3 times a week

 and with this programe, it all seems to be working, for me.
  but ive been on it, for over a year. and so far its working, for me. but if i was you, i would give the laser, a try and you may find, some good results, with it........

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## 35YrsAfter

> Thanks for the reply. 
> I am not on any medications at all or have any health issues 
> I have been using biotin 5000 daily since the 
> HT . I have started using FIN in the form of proscar roughly cut into 7-8 pieces since beginning of July. So that's between 0.6-0.7 mg a day. 
> So far I have not seen any side affects but , I am having a massive shed on the native hair. Shedding hairs are really thin and lifeless. I am hoping they will return back thicker ???
> I am also back on rogaine foam since the 1st of July.
> 
> Are there any other known / logical reasons for only some of the grafts to die but the rest to survive ?


 I just spoke with Dr. Cole about your questions.  He mentioned several things that can have an impact on yield.  Diet in some individuals can play a role.  The temperature at which the grafts are temporarily stored can impact graft survival.  Rough/improper handling of the grafts can reduce yield.  Studies show that in some individuals, placing the grafts above 40 per sq cm can lower yield to 70% or below.  Epigenetics is a factor to consider.  A skin disorder could be a factor in lower yield.  These are just a few of many possibilities.  Good photos taken before the procedure and photos taken just after surgery can be compared to photos taken at 12 months.  Sometimes patients in the higher Norwood categories forget the fact that their pre-teen head had a great deal more hair than is possible with today's technology to replace.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
Cole Hair Transplant
Atlanta
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.  Ask for Chuck

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## sausage

So, this is a failure by an IAHRS surgeon.......maybe not his fault......but it shows that failures are probably relatively common. I hope Doganay can do something to help you fill in the patchy areas.

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## gillenator

vinny,

It sounds like you started finasteride initially at the beginning of July along with resuming minoxidil.

This could be why you are experiencing the shed at this point in time.

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## 35YrsAfter

> So, this is a failure by an IAHRS surgeon.......maybe not his fault......but it shows that failures are probably relatively common. I hope Doganay can do something to help you fill in the patchy areas.


 Some patients are late bloomers.  Hair transplant failures related to growth are rare.  Failures related to unnatural appearance are by far, more common.  Some heads are just tougher to grow hair on.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
Cole Hair Transplant
Atlanta
Phone 678-566-1011

Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

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## vinnytr

Just to clarify , Dr Doganay accepted liability on this and offered me a free of charge HT on the same area to increase density  . 
At this point the idea is to use beard and chest hair in order not to use more head hair as I might need them later in life .

Would be nice to know what to do to avoid low yield this time  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## vinnytr

> vinny,
> 
> It sounds like you started finasteride initially at the beginning of July along with resuming minoxidil.
> 
> This could be why you are experiencing the shed at this point in time.


 This is always a good sign right ? The returning hairs will be thicker ?

Also ,very strange thing has happened . I can only put down to FIN .
I have never ever in my life seen a gray hair shed before where as in the last week I have seen at least 3 of them in my hand after applying minox etc  :EEK!: 

What does this mean ??

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## sausage

> Just to clarify , Dr Doganay accepted liability on this and offered me a free of charge HT on the same area to increase density  . 
> At this point the idea is to use beard and chest hair in order not to use more head hair as I might need them later in life .
> 
> Would be nice to know what to do to avoid low yield this time


 glad to hear it, that is great news. Good on him.

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## kundun

I started with minox 2 minox and have also suddenly much more grey hair. Hardly had them before. I read it can cause change in colour of hair.

Good that Doganay wants to make a correction.

I would not do to many changes just before and a year after the operation like stopping with fina or minox.

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## vinnytr

> I started with minox 2 minox and have also suddenly much more grey hair. Hardly had them before. I read it can cause change in colour of hair.
> 
> Good that Doganay wants to make a correction.
> 
> I would not do to many changes just before and a year after the operation like stopping with fina or minox.


 hows your HT coming along ?

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## kundun

I am almost on 3 months now. Had enormous shedding. Have never been so bald. Perhaps also due to the start of minox two weeks after the ht as adviced by dr doganay.
I feel a lot of hard hair coming out on my head. Probably the beardhair which starts to grow.
Had a facial treatment this afternoon. My beautyspecialist saw a lot of dark spots. So it starts to grow. To early for conclusions.

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## gillenator

> This is always a good sign right ? The returning hairs will be thicker ?
> 
> Also ,very strange thing has happened . I can only put down to FIN .
> I have never ever in my life seen a gray hair shed before where as in the last week I have seen at least 3 of them in my hand after applying minox etc 
> 
> What does this mean ??


 Vinny,

The native hairs that are "returning" or that have cycled through their growth phases come back weaker each cycle period.  It's the slow progression of MPB to those hairs that are DHT receptive.

On the other hand, the transplanted hair should regrow without the debilitating effects of DHT.  So they should bear similar characteristics to where they were harvested from, namely the donor zones.

As far as the loss of pigmentation to some of your hair, there really are no studies that I am aware of that would support that the use of hairloss drugs like finasteride would diminish pigmentation levels.

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## vinnytr

> As far as the loss of pigmentation to some of your hair, there really are no studies that I am aware of that would support that the use of hairloss drugs like finasteride would diminish pigmentation levels.


 I think you misunderstood me .
I was not saying FIN have caused my hair to go gray , I have a lot of gray hairs already but before I started taking FIN , I have never witnessed a single gray hair shed . Somehow gray hairs have always been much thicker compared to black hairs on my head too . 
I remember reading on forums ,some fin users experiencing their existing (non gray)  hairs getting darker. So I was sort of suggesting may be fin is somehow shedding those gray hairs and they will come back darker  ?  
Obviously I cant track individual hair grafts , so its just an optimistic assumption at this point  :Smile:  

But for me shedding of gray hairs is quiet something  :Confused:

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## vinnytr

Ok I got a HT date from Dr Doganay and his idea is to retrieve as many grafts as possible (3000grafts)  from beard and chest areas to cover the patchy areas and add density .  
But my worry is the possibility of the same happening again and ending up with another poor result . So I would like to figure out what went wrong in the first place and prevent it from happening next time .

Any ideas people ?  :Confused:

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## gillenator

Sorry about that Vinny, yes I did misunderstand you.

And you brought up something that just clicked with me.  I also am greying and been on low dose finasteride since 1996.  I have also noticed that when I shed hair, it's always the hair with color and never really notice any white hair shedding, just the dark hair shafts.

And it's true that hair that loses color for some reason is more coarse.  I have not however noticed hair losing pigmentation coming back darker with each cycle period.

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## vinnytr

> Sorry about that Vinny, yes I did misunderstand you.
> 
> And you brought up something that just clicked with me.  I also am greying and been on low dose finasteride since 1996.  I have also noticed that when I shed hair, it's always the hair with color and never really notice any white hair shedding, just the dark hair shafts.
> 
> And it's true that hair that loses color for some reason is more coarse.  I have not however noticed hair losing pigmentation coming back darker with each cycle period.


 
I have got a bit of dandruff at the moment and I have a little shake now and again . Today i also found 2 hairs about a cm long , 1/4 from the root/scalp end is gray and it goes darker going towards the other end . In fact black half way through . 
Now does this suggest these hairs are turning from gray to black or the other way around ?

I remember when I was searching about FIN ,I have read people reporting their hairs going darker ,although they were not talking about gray hairs but the ones with their original colour. I would not mind FIN turning my grays back to black  :Smile:  

How much FIN do you take a day  ? do you get any sides at all ?

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## gillenator

Well if finasteride does return pigmentation to grey hair, I will take it all day long.  :Wink: 

I cut proscar and take roughly one quarter daily. Sometimes the pill does not cut evenly but it's no big deal because it's still buying me time.

I do wonder how much more hair I would have lost had I not started low dose finasteride back in 1996.

No side effects... :Wink:

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## diaios1

> I am almost on 3 months now. Had enormous shedding. Have never been so bald. Perhaps also due to the start of minox two weeks after the ht as adviced by dr doganay.
> I feel a lot of hard hair coming out on my head. Probably the beardhair which starts to grow.
> Had a facial treatment this afternoon. My beautyspecialist saw a lot of dark spots. So it starts to grow. To early for conclusions.


 Kundun did you have HT  with  Dr Doganay? If so,  have you got any updates?

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## vinnytr

update on my situation ;

I have had the 2nd HT from Hakan Doganay a few weeks ago . Everything was absolutely free of charge as promised . They even picked me up from the airport as before and I stayed in the hospital for 3 days including 2 days of HT . As before only pain i had was the first couple of minutes where he is doing injections ,nothing at all afterwards . As most of the hair was used from the beard area i had a great nights sleep after both days of HT and i refused the pain killer injection they offered at the end of each day to keep you pain free overnight .

Dr Doganay  planted 2400 grafts in 2 days , 1800 beard grafts the 1st day and 515 hair grafts + 76 chest graft the 2nd day .

Its very early days to talk of the result of course but i can feel planted hairs growing all over amongst my longer native hair from the 1st HT.
On the other hand shock loss has started (day 17 today ) and whenever i have a shake using tips of my fingers ,I get about 10 beard grafts on the white sheet.

here is a photo of the shock loss ,i will add photos of the HT after I go through them.

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## gillenator

Hey Vinny,

Congrats on your recent procedure!

There looks to be some crusts among the hair shafts which appear to be some of the grafts shedding.

Awesome count on the beard grafts.  Looking forward to seeing your results as usual.

Now you can lay back and wait for the regrowth my friend!  :Wink:

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## kundun

@Daiaios : I am now on 5 months after the Hairtransplant.
After 2.5 months I noticed already that the hair started to grow. Density on the top of the head is very good. Crown has also improved but is running behind but seems to be normal. I still feel a lot of hair starting to grow. So hope crown will still improve in the coming months.
I had about 50% from beard and 50% from back of the head.
Am using Keratene and minox (2 times a day).

@ VinnyTR: Really hope for you you have a better result this time.

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## kundun

Hi Vinny,

I am now on 7 months. Am very happy with the result. 

How is your status now ?

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## vinnytr

> Hi Vinny,
> 
> I am now on 7 months. Am very happy with the result. 
> 
> How is your status now ?


 Hi mate ,

I have not reached 3 months yet so I cant comment much at this time but so far so good  :Smile:  I will be putting before and afters at 3 and 4 months 

somehow i can see hairs that are not growing more than 1-2 mm ,confused as to what to expect from them  :Confused: 

share some before and after photos please ?

----------


## NWoods

> Hi mate ,
> 
> I have not reached 3 months yet so I cant comment much at this time but so far so good  I will be putting before and afters at 3 and 4 months 
> 
> somehow i can see hairs that are not growing more than 1-2 mm ,confused as to what to expect from them 
> 
> share some before and after photos please ?


 Those are straggler's they'll either fall out over time or they'll pop out when the new hair is coming through, I'm about 5 months post FuE and for the first 2 months I had quite a lot of those hairs still stuck firmly in but not growing or showing signs of leaving, some did fall like my HT rep said, some have remained although no were near as many, probably about 20 or so remain but they'll just grow or shed on there own when they start coming through.

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## boricotico

> get another hair transplant. That is my 2 cents.


 +1

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## levi

Hi Vinnytr,
Some news ? How is your status now ?

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## gillenator

Looks like it's been several months since the last update and hope he is seeing improvement... :Smile:

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## vinnytr

hi guys , sorry for the late reply . 
I have been extremely busy with work etc .

Its been 5 months since the 2nd ht and i have seen an improvement since although it has not been amazing so far in my opinion . On the other hand I think i am becoming greedier now  :Embarrassment: 
Either way i am well happy compared to what i was like before all this  :Stick Out Tongue: 

I will post 5 month pics soon .


ALSO HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE ONES IN THE KNOW PLEASE  :Smile: 
On the other hand I have been on the fin since the beginning of july (0.8mg everyday )  At first I had no shed etc for 6-6.5 months but after that I have been seeing a big shed and the shedding hair is mainly from the sides (I can tell this due to their length as i have sides cut number 2 ) 
The shedding hair are really thin and weak ones . Are they going for good or will they come back thicker ? 
Also pulled a hair from my chest today , the top half is grey ,bottom half (root end ) is all black ! 
So its turning back to black from White ?  :EEK!: 

Any input on this greatly appreciated

----------


## Artista

whoa,,really? Thats interesting

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## gillenator

vinnytr,

The shed you are experiencing may indeed be the result of the finasteride especially if you got on it for the first time last August.  Very hard to know if the shed hairs are weak but if you meant that they are thinner in hair shaft diameter (caliber), then they might be diffusing hair shafts.  This happened to me some years ago when I switched from liquid minoxidil to the Rogaine foam when it first came to market.  I quit using the product altogether.  But the shedding period was about nine months.

You can always take a closer look under magnification.  If the shed hair shafts compared to terminal hair shafts are noticeably thinner in caliber, then chances are you are experiencing some diffusion.  If they appear similar in caliber, then it's probably just generalized thinning from the shed cycle.  

Will they come back?  You won't know until the shed cycle has stopped and you should begin to notice an increased level of visual density in those zones.  But remember it takes on average 30 days for the hair shafts to grow 1/2 inch in length.  Not sure how old you are but if you are under 40 years of age, I doubt that it is donor zone thinning.

Also look for changes in the coloration of the shedded hair shafts.  If the pigmentation is fading, then that hair may be in the diffusion process.  The fatter hair shafts will undoubtedly cycle back and grow new ones.

I have also noted loss of pigmentation to mostly my facial hair that starts at the end of the hair shaft and works its way downward to the surface.  It could be that part of the hair shaft closest to its source (follicle) retains the pigmentation longer.  That's just a guess on my part though... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Looking forward to your updated progress pics... :Wink:

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## gillenator

One other thing.  Every time my hair loses pigmentation, it becomes more coarse which is not necessarily a bad thing.

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## vinnytr

here are daytime photos

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## levi

Hi Vinny , it's really improved this is the result that you have to get in the first intervention .You had to pass two times through the discomforts that it brings a hair transplant to get an acceptable result.
I'm in the same situation as you were. I had a hair transplant with Dr. Doganay in July 2013. Now I'm 8 months after the surgery and still is not visible any significant improvement compared to the situation before.

----------

