# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  Final Days: Chinese Scientists Have Solved the DP Culturing Problem! (2014)

## Desmond84

Hi Guys,

The scientists @ Nanfang Hospital of Southern Medical University in China just published this article. They confirmed that the expression of several genes and proteins associated with hair follicle inductivity of DP cells, such as NCAM, Versican and α-SMA were maintained using this 3D Matrigel Culturing Method. 

THREE DIFFERENT TEAMS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD HAVE MANAGED TO CRACK THIS ISSUE IN THE LAST 3 MONTHS  :Smile:  Jahoda/Christiano, Taiwan Uni & Now the Chinese. We are so close  :Smile:  Here's the abstract:

*Controllable production of transplantable adult human high-passage dermal papilla spheroids using 3D Matrigel culture*

We have succeeded in culturing *human* dermal papilla (DP) cells spheroids and developed a three-dimensional Matrigel (basement membrane matrix) culture technique that can enhance and restores DP cells unique characteristics in vitro. 

When 10000 DP cells were cultured on the 96 well plates pre-coated with Matrigel for 5 days, both passage 2 and passage 8 DP cells formed spheroidal microtissues with a diameter of 150-250 μm in an aggregative and proliferative manner. We transferred and re-cultured these DP spheroids onto commercial plates. Cells within DP spheres could disaggregate and migrate out, which was similar to primary DP. Moreover, we examined the expression of several genes and proteins associated with hair follicle inductivity of DP cells, such as NCAM, Versican and α-SMA, and conﬁrmed that their expression level was elevated in the spheres compared with the dissociated DP cells. To examine hair-inducing ability of DP spheres, hair germinal matrix cells and DP spheres were mixed and cultured on Matrigel. Unlike the dissociated DP cells and hair germinal matrix cells co-cultured in two dimensions, hair germinal matrix cells can differentiate into hair-like fibers under the induction of the DP spheres made from the high passage cells (passage 8) in vitro. 

We are the first to show that passage 3 human hair germinal matrix cells differentiate into hair-like fiber in the presence of human DP spheroids. 

These results suggest that three-dimensional Matrigel culture technique is an ideal culture model for forming DP spheroids and that sphere formation partially models the intact DP, resulting in hair induction, even by high passage DP cells.

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs....TEA.2013.0547

__________________________________________________  _______________

My brothers are getting the article for me  :Smile:  Once I read it I'll update you guys  :Wink:

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## hellouser

Now for the agonizing part of clinical trials! Let's hope some biotech can do them in Japan, no way in hell should they be done in USA with the FDA's tortured process.

Thanks Desmond!  :Smile:

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## youngin

Correct me if I'm wrong but they did not expand the DP cells in culture. Expanding them is the key isn't it?

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## Arashi

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT  :Big Grin:   :Big Grin:   :Big Grin: 

So hairloss is solved, at least at the theoretical level !?!?! Wow that's some news Desmond, you made my day  :Smile:  Now they need to test it on humans to confirm it

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## Boldy

> Correct me if I'm wrong but they did not expand the DP cells in culture. Expanding them is the key isn't it?


 expansion could be done with the conversational methods in 2d culture. with fbs/bio/bmp. or just fgf/bmp. to retain the instinctive properties back again, the cells can be aggregated by one oth the methods (allot options here and matrigel is one of them).


It is now time to test these protocols( aggregation with epithelial cells ) properly in a controlled matter. ASAP.

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## CAlex

Hey Desmond, So this is basically in your opinion, whats needed for them to begin to create a treatment form? So in reality this, even if the last hurdle, its still realistically about 10 years from creating a treatment.

companies would begin to use this and then start trying to go about new treatments with proof of concept etc. a few years for that and then at least 5 years for trials in Asia(more like 10) in North America.

A) Does this new progress help any of our current companies like histogen, follica, replicel?

B) If it doesnt help our current hopes lets hope theres a company ready and willing to immediately start using these new breakthroughs towards researching a HL treatment. There might not be any companies ready financially to utilize this new information.


Sounds like good news but Im not believing the cure is just around this corner. Follicas 2008 killed that naive part of me.

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## Arashi

> Sounds like good news


 LOL, that's some understatement. This is the best news we've EVER had man.

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## hellouser

> A) Does this new progress help any of our current companies like histogen, follica, replicel?


 I believe this wont help any of the current biotechs unless they wish to take a new direction with the new finding and RESTART their clinical trials, thus prolonging the process AGAIN.

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## youngin

> expansion could be done with the conversational methods in 2d culture. with fbs/bio/bmp. or just fgf/bmp. to retain the instinctive properties back again, the cells can be aggregated by one oth the methods (allot options here and matrigel is one of them).
> 
> 
> It is now time to test these protocols( aggregation with epithelial cells ) properly in a controlled matter. ASAP.


 Again, I haven't studied this procedure much so correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like they just took DP cells and made them spheroidal, compared the genetic structure, and confirmed. They did not expand -> spheroid -> confirm. How do we know expanding them won't "dilute" them in some way.

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## Jasari

Heres to hoping we will.have a solid maintenance/regrowth solution in the next 6 years. I just rolled the dice and got an FUT (After a poor density FUE) taking me back to a norwood 2. I've had to do what I've held out on for the past 7 years and jump on fin/minox aswell.

Seriously risky lol. Keep the good news coming though.

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## 534623

> Face it IM these asian guys are killing the game right now, *way more intelligent, capable and dedicated compared to most euro/NA researchers*


 Not really. Oh, and why I called all this "trash science":

European researchers did this ...



> To show the DP cells didnt lose their follicle inducing ability (like normally happens when culturing DP cells), they even induced *some hair like fibers. But all in a dish !!* This is TOTALLY different than growing REAL hair (like Tsuji did) on skin. This doesnt somehow show the *Chinese failed (like you make it look) at all.*


 ...while I, IN FACT, said this concerning the latter part (ADHD is still a big problem these days lol) ...



> The Chinese scientists "failed" insofar (*it wasn't their intention to produce with this approach fully functional hair follicles*) and produced just "hair-like fibers", because their source lacked the proper instructions ...


 ...already in 2005:

"*Reorganization of hair follicles* in human skin organ culture induced by cultured human follicle-derived cells" - "Experimental Dermatology" (Bd. 14, S. 580; August 2005)

So they didn't just produce "hair-like fibers" in a petri dish (again, it wasn't the intention of the Chinese scientists to produce fully functional hair follicles, as already mentioned!!), they even produced real growing and functional  "VELLUS-LIKE  *HAIR*" in a petri dish. And to accomplish the latter, of course, they could also already retain the DP cells (and others) HF inducing capability (otherwise no hair at all!) - *in 2005!*

btw - Even the title of the European scientists paper is pretty similar to the papers' title from the Tsuij lab scientists: 
It's all about "how-to" REORGANIZE/RECONSTRUCT hair follicles; the European scientists did it simply *in vitro* (in a petri dish) and the Tsuij lab guys did a simlar approach finally *in vivo* (after some pre-culturing in vitro); in this case in a mouse to produce at least "a" wispy hair.

Furthermore, the ADHD-guy is still thinking that using INTACT dermal papilla's (or plural "papillae") is completely the same thing than using just CELLS of intact dermal papilla's  ...lol

On the other hand, it doesn't matter anyhow, because many don't even know what "reconstruction" or "reorganization" of something actually means ...lol

Anyway, now almost 10 years later (after publication of the European paper, for example), I always find it amusing when some baldies get excited when some "scientists" on this planet create some hairs in a petri dish - or "a" wispy hair on a mouse's back.... and start "the final cure is near" trash.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## tonypizza

I really believe if a blueprint for a cure is found, things will progress much faster than anyone would expect.   The first country to offer this treatment would see a ton of investment from drug companies looking to be auxillary as part of the regimen, to hair clinics looking to legally offer the treatment.   Universities will boom with research grants looking into production and packaging of the product.  Medical tourism will skyrocket.

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## hellouser

> Anyway, now almost 10 years later (after publication of the European paper, for example), I always find it amusing when some baldies get excited when some *"scientists"* on this planet create some hairs in a petri dish - or "a" wispy hair on a mouse's back.... and start "the final cure is near" trash.


 If these are some 'scientists' what does that make 'Dr. Gho' ??

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## Atum

> I really believe if a blueprint for a cure is found, things will progress much faster than anyone would expect.   The first country to offer this treatment would see a ton of investment from drug companies looking to be auxillary as part of the regimen, to hair clinics looking to legally offer the treatment.   Universities will boom with research grants looking into production and packaging of the product.  Medical tourism will skyrocket.


 Indeed, if this get's released in china in 1 or 2 years time, i better start learning chinees, cause I will be there.

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## ytterligare

why? I'm speaking Swedish, English and German that has to be enough  :Smile:  Better THEY brace themselves, because baldies from abroad are coming. Actually you'll only need to put your finger on the spots where you want more hair  :Big Grin:

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## 534623

> why? I'm speaking Swedish, English and *German* that has to be enough  Better THEY brace themselves, because baldies from abroad are coming. 
> 
> Actually you'll only need to put your finger on the spots where you want more hair


 Right - as they said this in 2005/2006 already (actually since decades). But I think you (and most other guys here) 
will rather end-up like the guy in the bottom right corner in this article ...

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## Jazz1

All I can say is the western world especially Uk most guys shave it and don't give a fu*k. The Chinese however take pride in their appearance, nice skin, features and especially hair. Chinese are know for their beautifull hair and skin, but these days somehow they are balding, blaming the western diet etc. I reckon they care more about their hair than any western country, hence why I can see them being more desperate for a cure.

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## hellouser

> All I can say is the western world especially Uk most guys shave it and don't give a fu*k. The Chinese however take pride in their appearance, nice skin, features and especially hair. Chinese are know for their beautifull hair and skin, but these days somehow they are balding, blaming the western diet etc. I reckon they care more about their hair than any western country, hence why I can see them being more desperate for a cure.


 Good, the faster they come out with a commercial product, the faster we can fly our bald heads to china and dump some serious cash into their economy.

I'll stay longer and do some touring while im there too, so they'd kill two birds with one stone.

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## DesperateOne

The trials really shouldn't take that long as well, which is a good thing. There is no placebo test or anything. I would like it to be a trial with people with different color hair, see how they respond. Transplant the hair and in 4 months, bam, hair retries all nice. The only problem I can see is the so called hairloss shock after a transplant.

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## nameless

> Well keep in mind that:
> 1) Tsuji labs already proved that this is the last step
> 2) Jahoda grew hair on human skin, but his method needed improvement to retain gene expression
> 3) These Chinese solved that last part.
> 4) That Taiwanese group is starting *clinical* trails with 3d cultured DP cells NOW, you can bet that they take info like this into account.
> 
> So the future does look bright. Very bright indeed !


 Arishi, I see where you're going with Items 1 - 4 and I hope you're right that the Taiwanese group takes this new info into account. And how do you think this new info will play in combination with the other recent information coming out of the University of Pennsylvania team with Cotseralis? Here is that information:

http://www.sciencecodex.com/converti...m_cells-126870

Does all this information combined equal a cure for hair loss and are the Taiwanese paying attention to this new information? If they aren't noticing this new information perhaps it would be a good if we informed them about all of these new recent events so they could incorporate all of the new information into their studies?????

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## nameless

> Poor tonypizza... underestimating the power of "if", when he refuses to submit himself to Dr. Nigam's experiments... among a wealth of other "unapproved treatments". I doubt nobody is going to get a free pass, unless there are many women in jarjarland who find mental illness appealing.


 At least I have a mental capacity. You have none.

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## nameless

> On the other hand, maybe it's just that his brain cells are severely minituarized. So there will be plenty of options for him in the competition of women, when Dr. Nigam is finally able to photoshop hair on his head.


 If a breakthrough is announced and Nigam starts using it then I will wait to see if he has success and if he does I'll be flying to get the treatment unless other options become available. You can stay bald and marry your hand.

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## nameless

If a cell-based breakthrough is announced soon what are our options to get the treatment?  The way I see it there are two options:

1. Wait 6 - 8 years for the treatment to come to main markets.

2. Press Nigam to incorporate the new information, get him to test the new treatment, and if he proves he can follow the script then we could get treatment from him within a year or so. 

If anybody else can think of any other options I would like to see those other options. If all posters do is attack and insult I'll report the attack/insult posts to the moderator(s) and ignore them because if all a poster does is attack/insult that means it's obvious he doesn't have another option so his post is in effect an endorsement of option #1 - waiting 6 - 8 years for it to get to main markets.

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## Thinning@30

No one should believe a word Nigam says after everything that has happened.  He was caught posting fake pics and offered us a ridiculous explanation.  Forum members traveled to India for procedures with him and have nothing to show for it but a messed up donor region and a much lighter pocketbook. He injected people with animal serum!!!  And let's not even get into all that shadiness involving the weight loss business and the rival HT doctor.  If the Indian police are having trouble finding Nigam at least now they know where he'll be in April.

I'm shocked that Nigam is speaking at the conference.  I can only imagine that they didn't do much vetting of speakers.  Sadly, scientific fraud is all too common, and sometimes even the most respectable scientists have trouble recognizing it.  Just look at what happened with the Japanese scientist who published an amazing breakthrough involving stem cells and then retracted it.  She even got published in the journal Nature.

It is too bad the conference is being held in Korea.  It would be great if Tom or one of Nigam's other "patients" could attend and present themselves as a case study!  I would love to see that guy exposed for what he is.

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## nameless

To everyone reading this post consider that at least I have the guts to put forth my thoughts.  My thoughts are that if a breakthrough is announced then we will have 2 basic options:

1. Wait 6 - 8 years for it to hit the regular market.

2. Press Nigam to incorporate the breakthrough information into his cell-based protocols and get him to do some open testing to see if he can follow the script. If he can do things correctly then we could get early treatment from him.

I know when I post these above 2 options I'm going to get bashed, but at least I say what I think. I put the only true present options 
on the table for everyone to consider. but my critics are weak because they criticize but they do not offer any 3rd option. All they do is
attack. They attack the possibility of a "Nigam" option. So clearly they reject the Nigam possibility.  That only leaves the option of waiting
6 - 8 years. It's obvious that their plan is for all of us to wait 6 - 8 years but they don't have the guts to come out and say that because 
they know that other posters will be negative about that plan of theirs. At least I have the guts to come out and say what our options will be
(if a breakthrough is announced) and ask people for any other potential options. My critics have no guts. Like I said they know that by 
rejecting the Nigam possibility they're saying that we should all just wait 6 - 8 years because that's the only other option, but they don't
have the guts to come out and say it.  

I'll ask again, if a cell breakthrough is announced soon does anyone see any options other than the 2 options I've listed? I'm open to suggestions but it looks to me like the 2 options I've listed are the only realistic options we have.

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## hellouser

> It is too bad the conference is being held in Korea.  It would be great if Tom or one of Nigam's other "patients" could attend and present themselves as a case study!  I would love to see that guy exposed for what he is.


 Email the congress with photographic evidence and all the bullshit Nigam has posted on the forums. They need to ban that piece of shit from the congress.

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## nameless

> No one should believe a word Nigam says after everything that has happened.  He was caught posting fake pics and offered us a ridiculous explanation.  Forum members traveled to India for procedures with him and have nothing to show for it but a messed up donor region and a much lighter pocketbook. He injected people with animal serum!!!  And let's not even get into all that shadiness involving the weight loss business and the rival HT doctor.  If the Indian police are having trouble finding Nigam at least now they know where he'll be in April.
> 
> I'm shocked that Nigam is speaking at the conference.  I can only imagine that they didn't do much vetting of speakers.  Sadly, scientific fraud is all too common, and sometimes even the most respectable scientists have trouble recognizing it.  Just look at what happened with the Japanese scientist who published an amazing breakthrough involving stem cells and then retracted it.  She even got published in the journal Nature.
> 
> It is too bad the conference is being held in Korea.  It would be great if Tom or one of Nigam's other "patients" could attend and present themselves as a case study!  I would love to see that guy exposed for what he is.


 
All doctor's have bad outcomes. All of them. I had a hair transplant by a world-renowned highly regarded hair transplant specialist and I did get some cobblestoning. And while Nigam has some bad outcomes he also has some good outcomes. And the world-renowned hair transplant doc I went to also only puts his best results in the news as far as I can tell. They're all embellishing and trying to make themselves look like they always get great results, but it's bs. So maybe we should reject all hair doctors and just stay bald.

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## SOTF

> So then you will run the risk of staying bald up to 10 years longer than you have to. That's fine with me because then you'll be a "bye" in the competition for women.  If I get my hair back and you don't have yours then you will be a "free pass" when it comes to competing for women.


 Just what the hell are you rambling on about? Judging by this one post alone, with or without hair, you aren't going to be at the top of the pecking order for women. Take a hint, see all the bald men with beautiful women? What do they have that you don't: confidence and power. This is ultimately what women seek. If the strands of dead fiber on your scalp give you ultimate confidence, superb. Otherwise grab a grip.

If Nigam offers "this" procedure "10 years" before anyone else, I will absolutely NOT go to him. Want to know why? BECAUSE IT WON'T BE LEGITIMATE so your point is null and void!

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## nameless

> Email the congress with photographic evidence and all the bullshit Nigam has posted on the forums. They need to ban that piece of shit from the congress.


 
Go ahead and email the congress. And if they don't ban him then what?

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## HairBane

> No one should believe a word Nigam says after everything that has happened.  He was caught posting fake pics and offered us a ridiculous explanation.  Forum members traveled to India for procedures with him and have nothing to show for it but a messed up donor region and a much lighter pocketbook. He injected people with animal serum!!!  And let's not even get into all that shadiness involving the weight loss business and the rival HT doctor.  If the Indian police are having trouble finding Nigam at least now they know where he'll be in April.
> 
> I'm shocked that Nigam is speaking at the conference.  I can only imagine that they didn't do much vetting of speakers.  Sadly, scientific fraud is all too common, and sometimes even the most respectable scientists have trouble recognizing it.  Just look at what happened with the Japanese scientist who published an amazing breakthrough involving stem cells and then retracted it.  She even got published in the journal Nature.
> 
> It is too bad the conference is being held in Korea.  It would be great if Tom or one of Nigam's other "patients" could attend and present themselves as a case study!  I would love to see that guy exposed for what he is.


 If it's all bullshit he won't last long. Science is very competitive, if you present nonsense and claim to have cured baldness to a bunch of industry professionals, you can guarantee that if there are holes in the theory, they'll find them and rip him apart. Hopefully this will bring about a conclusion to the whole saga.

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## hellouser

> How is that exactly ? If those Chinese can really culture DP cells, while retaining gene expression and can get those disassociated cells to form agglomerates, then we can create HF's from a bunch of cells and that IS a pre-clinical cure.
> 
> And again, once the science is out on how to do this, I'll bet the farm that there will be doctors offering this in less regulated countries WAY before official  trials in the Western world ended. *It's a great and easy opportunity to make a sh*t load of cash for them.*


 That's also an insane amount of money GUARANTEED for the next '10-20 years' while the FDA and other health ministries stall and crap all over biotechs ability to progress their trials at an acceptable pace.

We could help fund a clinic and competent doctor do this through crowdfunding itself. It'd be an amazing opportunity for them get a business started FOR FREE and then earn cash after as well!

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## nameless

> exactly, and we still don't even have a pre-clinical cure. the fact that they can *maybe* restore more inductivity than jahoda did last year is great.


 Where is the proof that any of the presenters have stated that they improved on the degree of inductivity Jahoda announced last year?

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## sdsurfin

> How is that exactly ? If those Chinese can really culture DP cells, while retaining gene expression and can get those disassociated cells to form agglomerates, then we can create HF's from a bunch of cells and that IS a pre-clinical cure.
> 
> And again, once the science is out on how to do this, I'll bet the farm that there will be doctors offering this in less regulated countries WAY before official  trials in the Western world ended. It's a great and easy opportunity to make a sh*t load of cash for them.


 Again, dig your optimism, but that statement has a lot of assumptions tied to it. No one has shown that this chinese team can retain FULL gene expression, all the paper says is that improved levels of certain genes have been shown using their method.  Also, "creating HFs from a bunch of cells" is more complicated than just getting DP cells to show full expression and inductivity.  Even IF they show full expression, that doesnt necessarily mean that they can be used to make a completely functional follicle. Look back at the tsuji threads, they stated that they have a ton of work to do even after knowing how to make engineered follicles.  No one knows or has studied how these new follicles will thrive in bald scalp, how to get them to grow in the right ways, etc.  We have a theoretical possible way to cure baldness, that is all, and some good advances into the way that follicle cells work. which is why people with money ,like yourself, should be getting other people with money to help fund the efforts of the big teams.

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## Arashi

> Look back at the tsuji threads, they stated that they have a ton of work to do even after knowing how to make engineered follicles.


 Of course, that was in 2012, when nobody could expand DP cells while getting those cells to from Hair follicles and grow hair ! Jahoda solved that part a year later. And now, another year later, several research groups have been working on improving that method and who knows, those chinese might have cracked it. So yeah, you can say we are damn close.

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## nameless

> Of course, that was in 2012, when nobody could expand DP cells while getting those cells to from Hair follicles and grow hair ! Jahoda solved that part a year later. And now, another year later, several research groups have been working on improving that method and who knows, those chinese might have cracked it. So yeah, you can say we are damn close.


 What do you mean "who knows, those chinese might have cracked it."? According to you they definitely did crack it. 

Will you please get your story-line straight? Either they did or they didn't. And if your posit is that they did will you please post the text that confirms that they did?

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## DesperateOne

> Of course, that was in 2012, when nobody could expand DP cells while getting those cells to from Hair follicles and grow hair ! Jahoda solved that part a year later. And now, another year later, several research groups have been working on improving that method and who knows, those chinese might have cracked it. So yeah, you can say we are damn close.


 Arashi, what are your thoughts in the melatonin study, do you see even a slight chance of some merit?

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## tonypizza

> That's also an insane amount of money GUARANTEED for the next '10-20 years' while the FDA and other health ministries stall and crap all over biotechs ability to progress their trials at an acceptable pace.
> 
> We could help fund a clinic and competent doctor do this through crowdfunding itself. It'd be an amazing opportunity for them get a business started FOR FREE and then earn cash after as well!


 Keep in mind you'd be subject to taxes of the foreign country plus that of your citizenship.   Also keep in mind you'd be earning money in the Indian Rupee, which is about 1:40 the American Dollar, and you'd have to spend part of that to convert it back to the American Dollar.  

Also, medical professionals seeking licensure in another country have to sit that country's exams, and once having passed them (no easy task when you're in a foreign country and do not know their testing system or emphasis), you're going to lose your licensure in your home country at the end of the year, as you have to be actively practicing for a certain number of days in that province/state (depends state-to-state) the prior year, in addition to completing CE credits.  

Also, no Canadian or American company is going to cover you for malpractice insurance while you practice in another country.  

So there's that...

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## garethbale

> *Keep in mind you'd be subject to taxes of the foreign country plus that of your citizenship.*   Also keep in mind you'd be earning money in the Indian Rupee, which is about 1:40 the American Dollar, and you'd have to spend part of that to convert it back to the American Dollar.  
> 
> Also, medical professionals seeking licensure in another country have to sit that country's exams, and once having passed them (no easy task when you're in a foreign country and do not know their testing system or emphasis), you're going to lose your licensure in your home country at the end of the year, as you have to be actively practicing for a certain number of days in that province/state (depends state-to-state) the prior year, in addition to completing CE credits.  
> 
> Also, no Canadian or American company is going to cover you for malpractice insurance while you practice in another country.  
> 
> So there's that...


 
No, you would probably get some kind of double taxation relief which would be at the lower of the tax on foreign gains and the tax liability in your home country.

This is offered by the UK government and probably operates in other jurisdictions as well.  No way would two governments tax you as it would depend on where your gains were remitted to.

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## hellouser

> Keep in mind you'd be subject to taxes of the foreign country plus that of your citizenship.   Also keep in mind you'd be earning money in the Indian Rupee, which is about 1:40 the American Dollar, and you'd have to spend part of that to convert it back to the American Dollar.  
> 
> Also, medical professionals seeking licensure in another country have to sit that country's exams, and once having passed them (no easy task when you're in a foreign country and do not know their testing system or emphasis), you're going to lose your licensure in your home country at the end of the year, as you have to be actively practicing for a certain number of days in that province/state (depends state-to-state) the prior year, in addition to completing CE credits.  
> 
> Also, no Canadian or American company is going to cover you for malpractice insurance while you practice in another country.  
> 
> So there's that...


 This is all very true.

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## garethbale

> This is all very true.


 Not all of it.

You wouldn't be taxed on the same income twice. It would be either at the foreign rate or your own country's rate.

You'd most likely get double taxation relief if taxed twice.

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## Jasari

TBH if you aren't attracting beautiful women it's because they don't find you attractive; if you we're they would pursue you without question.

That being said the worst thing guys can do is delude themselves into thinking they are a 9/10. Go work on talents, make money, improve your personality to try & bridge the gap. Simple.

There is a section for venting too - So hopefully back onto topic.

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## cichlidfort

> You have stated repeatedly in other threads that you are "tall and good looking" and quite frankly it is pretty annoying and kinda weird.
> 
> I hope we can get back to the topic of the thread now. If you guys want to go vent about your feelings, you are all aware that there is a forum section purposely built for that.


 Cool bro

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## nameless

> This forum reeks of something awful. So many of you are going to be disappointed when you have a head full of hair and there are still no women in your life. Our entire society is consumed by weakness. 
> 
> The quality of women you seek is sub-par and you're setting yourself up for extreme disappointment. Do you wish to entertain yourself by listening to a girl babble about pretty little liars endlessly? Are you so lonely and desperate for acceptance by half-wits?
> 
> I am average in height and balding. I have no issue with women because I don't act like a woman. Please men, get a grip on your lives. Negative emotions are for the weak. Hair will not be fixing these issues you're cultivating.


 Since you do not have issues with women then why do you want hair?  Are you some girly-man who wants to look pretty and needs to look pretty to feel beautiful?  LOL!

I want hair because women like the men with hair. I can get more and better women when I have a full head of hair. If I had no issues with women then I would not be concerned about my hair because unlike yourself I don't need to be pretty in order to like myself.

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## Buckerine11

Being tall and goodlooking is obviously very helpful, but you still need substance to back it up. Once you're beyond a certain age group, you can't rely on just looks. This is especially true if you want attractive professional women, who likely will not date or marry down. Their top priority is to find a mate of equal or higher social status. If and only if you meet that criteria, will they evaluate your appearance.

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## fred970

Well, this topic will definitely not go back to the subject. Maybe because there is no news about this anymore?

You want to marry a "professional" woman?



Yep, truly every man's dream.

You seem to care way too much about what women think of you. "Only if you meet that criteria". "They will not date down."

Men like you breed this sense of entitlement a lot of Western women have today.

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## Notcoolanymore

> Well, this topic will definitely not go back to the subject. Maybe because there is no news about this anymore?
> 
> You want to marry a "professional" woman?
> 
> Yep, truly every man's dream.
> 
> You seem to care way too much about what women think of you. "Only if you meet that criteria". "*They will not date down*."
> 
> Men like you breed this sense of entitlement a lot of Western women have today.


 Why would it be considered "dating down" if a "professional woman" dates/marries a man who is not as successful financially as she is?  There are many men(doctors, lawyers, etc.) that marry women based on their looks alone.  Are these men also dating down?  Screw this, I'm moving to Brussels!

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## Buckerine11

> Well, this topic will definitely not go back to the subject. Maybe because there is no news about this anymore?
> 
> You want to marry a "professional" woman?
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, truly every man's dream.
> 
> You seem to care way too much about what women think of you. "Only if you meet that criteria". "They will not date down."
> ...


 I didn't say I wanted to only marry professional women. I was responding to the other people who brought it up. I just shared my observations - that is all.

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## Buckerine11

> Why would it be considered "dating down" if a "professional woman" dates/marries a man who is not as successful financially as she is?  There are many men(doctors, lawyers, etc.) that marry women based on their looks alone.  Are these men also dating down?  Screw this, I'm moving to Brussels!


 Not the same standards for men and women.

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## efedrez

what happen with the initial focus of this post? I was really looking forward to get more information about it but it looks like if has become a post to talked about the difficulties of loosing your hair in our society

For sure this is very important my friends but there are plenty of other post to talk about our frustration...does anyone by any chance have some additional information regarding the DP culturing problem?

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## hellouser

> *I was really looking forward to get more information* about it but it looks like if has become a post to talked about the difficulties of loosing your hair in our society
> 
> For sure this is very important my friends but there are plenty of other post to talk about our frustration...*does anyone by any chance have some additional information regarding the DP culturing problem?*


 Everything there is to know for the public is in this thread. There's nothing else out there.

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## joely

> I give you a piece of advice. Take fin if you can tolerate it and get off this forum. Look forward to the Shiseido trial with the Replicel-method, stop worrying that much and maybe check things put once per week as I do. If you are really 2young2bald, just try fin with a positive attitude and hope for the best. Just because we do not get any updates, does not mean that nothing happens. Replicel posts a lot of interesting stuff on their Twitter-page.


 Pretty much on the money there

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## IAmAce

I'm not too up to date with this but, roughly how long are we looking until we have a long term solution for halting hairloss beyond just fin?

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## cichlidfort

> I give you a piece of advice. Take fin if you can tolerate it and get off this forum. Look forward to the Shiseido trial with the Replicel-method, stop worrying that much and maybe check things put once per week as I do. If you are really 2young2bald, just try fin with a positive attitude and hope for the best. Just because we do not get any updates, does not mean that nothing happens. Replicel posts a lot of interesting stuff on their Twitter-page.


 What's the Shiseido trial?

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## hellouser

> What's the Shiseido trial?


 Shiseido bought the rights to sell the Replicel treatment in in Asian countries, however they are going to be running their own Phase II clinical trials alongside Replicel's Phase II clinical trials in Europe.

I wonder though, if Shiseido's clinical trials are a test trial for them to see if the procedure actually works. They spent 30 million on them... that's peanuts for them as they hold billions of dollars. Is it not possible they thought 'Well, heres a small project we could toy with and potentially make a huge return... why not?'

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## FearTheLoss

> Shiseido bought the rights to sell the Replicel treatment in in Asian countries, however they are going to be running their own Phase II clinical trials alongside Replicel's Phase II clinical trials in Europe.
> 
> I wonder though, if Shiseido's clinical trials are a test trial for them to see if the procedure actually works. They spent 30 million on them... that's peanuts for them as they hold billions of dollars. Is it not possible they thought 'Well, heres a small project we could toy with and potentially make a huge return... why not?'


 
I'd be they are having Shiseido run a trial of there own so they could release in Asia after phase II.

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## hellouser

> I'd be they are having Shiseido run a trial of there own so they could release in Asia after phase II.


 Yes, but that's basically saying they know it works.

The other thing I don't understand is this: why culture DP cells and inject them when follicles never die anyway and the DP Cells from existing follicles are there already? Could DSC cells actually be the missing link that Replicel's been working on?

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## hgs1989

I wonder if dp cells or replicel dsc cells when cultured in embryonic like conditions(similar to that histogen applies to fibroblasts: low oxygen and low gravity) would maintain hair inductive properties.histogen says thatt embryonic genes are upregulated using their method. jahoda's is trying to make a follicle,wouldn't embryonic conditions be the ideal way to do it. after all our hair follicles develop in 9 week old embryos. I wonder if they looked at it at some point

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## sdsurfin

> I wonder if dp cells or replicel dsc cells when cultured in embryonic like conditions(similar to that histogen applies to fibroblasts: low oxygen and low gravity) would maintain hair inductive properties.histogen says thatt embryonic genes are upregulated using their method. jahoda's is trying to make a follicle,wouldn't embryonic conditions be the ideal way to do it. after all our hair follicles develop in 9 week old embryos. I wonder if they looked at it at some point


 I think this is incredibly important, and I'm not sure which researchers are dealing with it.  here is a recent article from washenik about recreating human skin with follicles: 

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs..._pub%3dpubmed&

Interestingly they only were able to grow follicles when neonatal cells were used, but not with adult skin cells.  I have said this many times, there is probably no way for adult hair cells to induce hair the way that embryonic cells do it.  The answer may lie in programming new DP cells to have the characteristics of neo natal DP cells.  With IPS cell technology this should be possible, but they need to figure out what makes neonatal hair cells different from adult hair cells.  I hope someone is on that, but you guys on here should ask researchers about this (gardner, Xu, christiano, etc).  My hunch is that if the questions are good, they will read them, even if you might not get an answer.  

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24017993

I recommend that article too (might have to buy it) to get a picture of where we're at. Washenik essentially says that if vellus hair still exists, then cells seem to combine with existing structures (very promising in my view, and essentially what replicel is after).  He says if the area is scarred, then its more complicated, but that methods such as Tsuji's may be possible.  Essentially it seems like he thinks that a cell based solution to alopecia is coming relatively soon.  I would put all my money on the fact that this will be the last generation to not have a cure, which is crazy and pretty upsetting, but unfortunately we live right on the cusp of insane medical progress in general.  Hopefully it will benefit us before we are ancient.  Even if I can get all my hair back when I'm 50 it will be pretty cool.  Washenik also says that the lack of an existing scalp model is holding back experimentation, but hopefully with all the push for skin regeneration they will have that soon too.  I think it's very hard for them to know how to proceed without injecting these things into humans, and obviously the results could be terrible.  

I really do think that the difference between neonatal and adult cells is incredibly crucial though, and hop that the scientists aren't getting too excited about culturing adult DP cells when it might be in vain.

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## sascha

> Yes, but that's basically saying they know it works.
> 
> The other thing I don't understand is this: why culture DP cells and inject them when follicles never die anyway and the DP Cells from existing follicles are there already? Could DSC cells actually be the missing link that Replicel's been working on?


 The phase 1 trial lasted for 6 month, the data they presented was "6 month-data", in reality the looked at the results again after 12+ months and we do not know about that data. There is no doubt in my mind that they got great results with the treatment and that Replicel will be enough for most NW3, maybe NW4 and below.
Plus, we may do not have to wait until the trial is finished. Could be that they release the treatment after 6,9 or 12 . Who knows. We will have to wait and see as always.

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