# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  custom growth factors

## lilpauly

http://i40.tinypic.com/2powt9v.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2ducrgi.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2ducrgi.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2lszajn.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/mrbon7.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/2cfqnp2.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/10eklft.jpg

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## youngin

whos got the growth factors marky mark?

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## lilpauly

> whos got the growth factors marky mark?


 ^^^^ kane will be supplying the growth factors!

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## lilpauly

> whos got the growth factors marky mark?


 kane will have it monday

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## idontwant2bebalding

> kane will have it monday


 Tell the whole story. Please?!

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## lilpauly

> Tell the whole story. Please?!


 I told u exactly what is produced, the only trusted source (Kane) , what else would u like to know

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## StayThick

> I told u exactly what is produced, the only trusted source (Kane) , what else would u like to know


 Lilpauly u haven't been around this forum in months...and then all of a sudden pop up with Kane "growth factors."

What the hell am I looking at in your photos? What exactly is Kane receiving? How will the substance be applied? A post with weird pics doesn't help anyone, which explains your lack of responses and why most likely everybody rolls their eyes when they opened up this thread.

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## lilpauly

> Lilpauly u haven't been around this forum in months...and then all of a sudden pop up with Kane "growth factors."
> 
> What the hell am I looking at in your photos? What exactly is Kane receiving? How will the substance be applied? A post with weird pics doesn't help anyone, which explains your lack of responses and why most likely everybody rolls their eyes when they opened up this thread.


 Yes man I agree I don't know all info yet. I asked to make fgf9 and his engineers recommend this product . Tomorrow I will know all the info

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## StayThick

> Yes man I agree I don't know all info yet. I asked to make fgf9 and his engineers recommend this product . Tomorrow I will know all the info


 Got you. Keep us posted man.

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## mari0s

> Yes man I agree I don't know all info yet. I asked to make fgf9 and his engineers recommend this product . Tomorrow I will know all the info


 but according the slides you posted the average grow of hair is under 10%, more or less the same with minoxidil and they even use microneedle + electroporation. 
Sound nothing special, i'm i missing something?

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## hellouser

> but according the slides you posted the average grow of hair is under 10%, more or less the same with minoxidil and they even use microneedle + electroporation. 
> Sound nothing special, i'm i missing something?


 Results were anywhere between 0-29% in hair number and hair thickness was anywhere between 0-27%.

I think the results are also for women. I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers were higher in men. Don't know why anyone would bother with female pattern baldness as its so much less frequent.

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## scrumb

> I think the results are also for women. I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers were higher in men. Don't know why anyone would bother with female pattern baldness as its so much less frequent.


 I've been lurking around here for a while now (couple years reading the Cutting Edge section), but this reply caused me to finally register so I could post this. The callousness and inhumanity displayed with this statement are simply beyond belief.

Personally, I'm 35, but started on Propecia when I was 18. It's saved me for the most part. I'm still a good 2 on the Norwood scale thanks to that drug (my father and two of my brothers were completely bald by this age). Beyond this though, I made the choice at ~19 to just start buzzing my hair (about 1/16th to 1/8th inch) and have kept it that way ever since. Makes everything so much more manageable.

However, about 4 years ago now, my girlfriend began losing her hair (same age as I am). THAT is why people "bother" also working with women.

Though it's true that men are more (frequently) affected by hairloss than women (over 50% compared to ~20%... yes, about 2 in 10 women are affected) I can speak from first hand experience (since I've dealt with it myself as well) that it is MUCH more devastating to a woman than it is a man. We aren't assaulted non-stop by advertisements every day telling us the importance of our hair. We don't have to go through checkout lines at the supermarket unable to escape nothing but racks of magazines devoted to nothing but hair or displaying some model with the new "in" style "you SHOULD HAVE". We have the (extremely acceptable socially) option of buzzing our hair close should we chose to, and no one will ever look at us twice. Tons of guys on here THINK their lives will come to an end if they buzz their hair, but at least we HAVE THE OPTION. If my girlfriend tries this, she suddenly will become the subject of stares from everyone she walks by due to the norms of our society. And wigs? Yeah, they aren't exactly FUN.

On top of having to deal with all that, when WE go to the doctor concerned about hairloss, we (at least for those of us on here who decide to give it a shot - personally after 17 years, I'm GRATEFUL for it) are IMMEDIATELY offered up Propecia if we want it. A drug which in 8 or 9 out of 10 men WILL halt hairloss for a considerable amount of time. When women go to the doctor concerned about hairloss (I've been to all of them with her), they are put into a treadmill of testing for everything under the sun prior to anyone considering genetic hairloss as a possibility. Even AFTER months have been wasted at great expense and the only possible explanation is just genetic hair loss, THEN begins the arduous task of trying to get something prescribed to (maybe) help. More months wasted going to 3 different doctors before one will FINALLY prescribe Spironalactone. All through that... crying every night along the way.

After 4 years, we've both pretty much come to terms with it... and I surely don't love her any less because of it. If anything else it's brought us closer together.

Until you have some personal experience with one of these "bothers", why don't you give some more thought to your statements before writing off 51% of the population?

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## hellouser

> I've been lurking around here for a while now (couple years reading the Cutting Edge section), but this reply caused me to finally register so I could post this. The callousness and inhumanity displayed with this statement are simply beyond belief.
> 
> Personally, I'm 35, but started on Propecia when I was 18. It's saved me for the most part. I'm still a good 2 on the Norwood scale thanks to that drug (my father and two of my brothers were completely bald by this age). Beyond this though, I made the choice at ~19 to just start buzzing my hair (about 1/16th to 1/8th inch) and have kept it that way ever since. Makes everything so much more manageable.
> 
> However, about 4 years ago now, my girlfriend began losing her hair (same age as I am). THAT is why people "bother" also working with women.
> 
> Though it's true that men are more (frequently) affected by hairloss than women (over 50% compared to ~20%... yes, about 2 in 10 women are affected) I can speak from first hand experience (since I've dealt with it myself as well) that it is MUCH more devastating to a woman than it is a man. We aren't assaulted non-stop by advertisements every day telling us the importance of our hair. We don't have to go through checkout lines at the supermarket unable to escape nothing but racks of magazines devoted to nothing but hair or displaying some model with the new "in" style "you SHOULD HAVE". We have the (extremely acceptable socially) option of buzzing our hair close should we chose to, and no one will ever look at us twice. Tons of guys on here THINK their lives will come to an end if they buzz their hair, but at least we HAVE THE OPTION. If my girlfriend tries this, she suddenly will become the subject of stares from everyone she walks by due to the norms of our society. And wigs? Yeah, they aren't exactly FUN.
> 
> On top of having to deal with all that, when WE go to the doctor concerned about hairloss, we (at least for those of us on here who decide to give it a shot - personally after 17 years, I'm GRATEFUL for it) are IMMEDIATELY offered up Propecia if we want it. A drug which in 8 or 9 out of 10 men WILL halt hairloss for a considerable amount of time. When women go to the doctor concerned about hairloss (I've been to all of them with her), they are put into a treadmill of testing for everything under the sun prior to anyone considering genetic hairloss as a possibility. Even AFTER months have been wasted at great expense and the only possible explanation is just genetic hair loss, THEN begins the arduous task of trying to get something prescribed to (maybe) help. More months wasted going to 3 different doctors before one will FINALLY prescribe Spironalactone. All through that... crying every night along the way.
> ...


 More funding goes towards womens health than mens.

End of argument.

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## PayDay

> I've been lurking around here for a while now (couple years reading the Cutting Edge section), but this reply caused me to finally register so I could post this. The callousness and inhumanity displayed with this statement are simply beyond belief.
> 
> Personally, I'm 35, but started on Propecia when I was 18. It's saved me for the most part. I'm still a good 2 on the Norwood scale thanks to that drug (my father and two of my brothers were completely bald by this age). Beyond this though, I made the choice at ~19 to just start buzzing my hair (about 1/16th to 1/8th inch) and have kept it that way ever since. Makes everything so much more manageable.
> 
> However, about 4 years ago now, my girlfriend began losing her hair (same age as I am). THAT is why people "bother" also working with women.
> 
> Though it's true that men are more (frequently) affected by hairloss than women (over 50% compared to ~20%... yes, about 2 in 10 women are affected) I can speak from first hand experience (since I've dealt with it myself as well) that it is MUCH more devastating to a woman than it is a man. We aren't assaulted non-stop by advertisements every day telling us the importance of our hair. We don't have to go through checkout lines at the supermarket unable to escape nothing but racks of magazines devoted to nothing but hair or displaying some model with the new "in" style "you SHOULD HAVE". We have the (extremely acceptable socially) option of buzzing our hair close should we chose to, and no one will ever look at us twice. Tons of guys on here THINK their lives will come to an end if they buzz their hair, but at least we HAVE THE OPTION. If my girlfriend tries this, she suddenly will become the subject of stares from everyone she walks by due to the norms of our society. And wigs? Yeah, they aren't exactly FUN.
> 
> On top of having to deal with all that, when WE go to the doctor concerned about hairloss, we (at least for those of us on here who decide to give it a shot - personally after 17 years, I'm GRATEFUL for it) are IMMEDIATELY offered up Propecia if we want it. A drug which in 8 or 9 out of 10 men WILL halt hairloss for a considerable amount of time. When women go to the doctor concerned about hairloss (I've been to all of them with her), they are put into a treadmill of testing for everything under the sun prior to anyone considering genetic hairloss as a possibility. Even AFTER months have been wasted at great expense and the only possible explanation is just genetic hair loss, THEN begins the arduous task of trying to get something prescribed to (maybe) help. More months wasted going to 3 different doctors before one will FINALLY prescribe Spironalactone. All through that... crying every night along the way.
> ...


 I think this is a really important post! There is so much bullshit posted on these forums, but this is really a meaningful and long needed message.

As much as I have suffered in my life due to my hair loss, being a young woman with hair loss has to be devastating and is not an issue that society and science should ignore. We are men and society will accept us with or without hair, but it's so much more difficult and shameful for women.

You're a good man scrumb, I wish there were more members like you around this forum and you are right when you say that we have a drug that we can take that works. Women really don't, they will almost always lose the battle, while we can maintain indefinitely in some cases.  Nice post!

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## hellouser

> I think this is a really important post! There is so much bullshit posted on these forums, but this is really a meaningful and long needed message.
> 
> As much as I have suffered in my life due to my hair loss, being a young woman with hair loss has to be devastating and is not an issue that society and science should ignore. We are men and society will accept us with or without hair, but it's so much more difficult and shameful for women.
> 
> You're a good man scrumb, I wish there were more members like you around this forum and you are right when you say that we have a drug that we can take that works. Women really don't, they will almost always lose the battle, while we can maintain indefinitely in some cases.  Nice post!


 There's NOTHING shameful for either men or women about hairloss. The shame comes from ASSHOLES in society taking advantage of our unfortunate loss of hair only to mock, ridicule and deem us with less worth.

Regardless of the Propecia's effectiveness, it is the devil's drug, its old, dated and has many known temporary and permanent side effects. There is NO EXCUSE for this shit to still be offered 20 years after its commercialization. We should have had a full out cure a long time ago, or at least a solid treatment.

The day hair multiplication comes to market without donor loss is when both men and women will be cured. That is what the aim should be.

However, and this really needs to said and drilled into the minds of some people:

*PRIORITY*

Is the key word here. Women are a fraction of the hair loss world. Women already receive wide variety of treatments for cosmetic purposes. But more importantly for them, breast cancer is given a stunningly disproportionate amount of awareness, where as men's prostate cancer is left in the dark, underfunded and.. for the most part, men's testicular/prostate problems are often times turned into a joke. Try that on women, see how far you get. The NFL even had a month designated towards breast cancer awarenes, pink ribbons were worn, etc. Where is the equality for men... in a MANS league?

Yet men die 6 years before women. In fact, a large number of medical studies are done on men as the volunteers, from prison and military, essentially taking one for the team.

I won't stand AT ALL for the blatant disregard to men. I sympathize for anyone going though hair loss, but there is NO reason to put more emphasis on men when the numbers clearly prove that the priority should be made for them... at least for this, I'm fvcking tired of being socially crippled and mocked for it, nobody would dare to do that to a woman.

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## scrumb

> I won't stand AT ALL for the blatant disregard to men. I sympathize for anyone going though hair loss, but there is NO reason to put more emphasis on men when the numbers clearly prove that the priority should be made for them... at least for this, I'm fvcking tired of being socially crippled and mocked for it, nobody would dare to do that to a woman.


 What blatant disregard to men? Most trials are being conducted almost exclusively ON MEN. The hell are you talking about?

If you can't acknowledge that there's a clear societal acceptance difference between bald women and bald men, I don't know what more to say. It is ABSOLUTELY easier to be a bald man in our society than it is a bald woman. They ARE looked upon as "weird" by a lot of people. People WILL stare when they see bald women. The same DOES NOT go for men. We're just "another bald guy" to people. I'd venture to say that a lot of the mocking and humiliation that people on here think is occurring is largely self-induced, and the general public is not thinking anything close to what you've built up in your own minds. In the past 4 years (since I've become extremely sensitive to public reaction for my GF) I don't recall ever seeing anyone staring at a bald guy's head out in public. And the the 13 years prior, no one's been staring at my buzzed head either. Why? Because it's "accepted" in our society. I'm not saying MORE money should be spent on womens' hair loss. But the fact that you seem to irrationally have an issue that ANY is being spent, or that they were even in a trial at all, is what pisses me off.

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## StayThick

Scrumb I agree with a lot of your points. Women who are "bald" are definitely looked upon as weird in society... But that's simply because it just not common, regardless of the figures you throw out there.

Women who are bald are viewed as most likely someone going through chemo or having an underlying medical condition. It's just not the norm to see women bald or balding...so of course you can expect stares. You're argument is really based on comparing apples to oranges.

Unfortunately, a large percentage of men develop some sort of baldness by the time their are 50...so obviously men who are bald are more "accepted" and I use that term loosely...and it's simply because its a genetic curse that affects so many men worldwide. The numbers don't lie. Bald men everywhere.

I sympathize with your situation and GF. Having hairloss is devastating point blank. I don't care if a man or woman is experiencing it. It's terrible on both sides.

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## hellouser

> What blatant disregard to men? Most trials are being conducted almost exclusively ON MEN. The hell are you talking about?
> 
> If you can't acknowledge that there's a clear societal acceptance difference between bald women and bald men, I don't know what more to say. It is ABSOLUTELY easier to be a bald man in our society than it is a bald woman. They ARE looked upon as "weird" by a lot of people. People WILL stare when they see bald women. The same DOES NOT go for men. We're just "another bald guy" to people. I'd venture to say that a lot of the mocking and humiliation that people on here think is occurring is largely self-induced, and the general public is not thinking anything close to what you've built up in your own minds. In the past 4 years (since I've become extremely sensitive to public reaction for my GF) I don't recall ever seeing anyone staring at a bald guy's head out in public. And the the 13 years prior, no one's been staring at my buzzed head either. Why? Because it's "accepted" in our society. I'm not saying MORE money should be spent on womens' hair loss. But the fact that you seem to irrationally have an issue that ANY is being spent, or that they were even in a trial at all, is what pisses me off.


 You really believe its socially 'accepted' to bald? Have you been living under a rock all your life? Don't tell me the mockery is self induced, I get shit from my female coworker about my hair often... and too bad I can't say anything in response because 1) I'm a guy and any complaint I make will go overlooked 2) I'll immediately be seen as a weak BITCH. Something women despise equally as much as balding.

So I have to basically take the flack.

AND THANK GOD for most trials being conducted on men! Its *largely* our problem anyway. Don't think for a second that I'm against women deserving of a treatment, but they are NOT a priority in this ordeal. And hair loss is just one health issue men have and the way I see, its the ONLY one where men have the leg up on this. Marty Nemko wrote an interesting piece on the gender pendulum a while back. He found in PubMed over 3,000 medical journals in the last 60 years and for every 43 studies there were on women.... ONLY ONE WAS ON MEN. *43 to 1 studies in womens favour.* FOURTY THREE. That is downright disgusting. You don't think its about time men got *some* attention?

And I feel for women having to go through this shitty disease, I'm one of the victims... I know EXACTLY how it feels... only I get called out for publicly right to my face and silently when I notice peoples eyes go up my forehead. So what, men aren't capable of feeling shitty about it? Don't downplay AGA.

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## StayThick

> I feel for women having to go through this shitty disease, I'm one of the victims... I know EXACTLY how it feels... only I get called out for publicly right to my face and silently when I notice peoples eyes go up my forehead. So what, men aren't capable of feeling shitty about it? Don't downplay AGA.


 This is spot on. I can relate...

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## greatjob!

hellouser you contribute a lot to this community, but right now you sound like a chauvinist prick who enjoys playing the victim

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## hellouser

> hellouser you contribute a lot to this community, but right now you sound like a chauvinist prick who enjoys playing the victim


 What, we're not victims of AGA?

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## greatjob!

> What, we're not victims of AGA?


 I'm not talking about that kind of victim, I'm talking about the "oh women have it so easy, not like us poor men, everyone picks on us, my life is over boo hoo" kind of victim.

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## hellouser

> I'm not talking about that kind of victim, I'm talking about the "oh women have it so easy, not like us poor men, everyone picks on us, my life is over boo hoo" kind of victim.


 No. My complaint is with people not giving a shit about mens health. Hair loss included.

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## lilpauly

Small update the growth factors only need to be applied once every 2 weeks

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## garethbale

lilpauly

what is the exact website?  I can't find it on google by searching.

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## lilpauly

> hellouser you contribute a lot to this community, but right now you sound like a chauvinist prick who enjoys playing the victim


 


> lilpauly
> 
> what is the exact website?  I can't find it on google by searching.


 It's not on his web page yet. I will let u know.

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## scrumb

> Scrumb I agree with a lot of your points. Women who are "bald" are definitely looked upon as weird in society... But that's simply because it just not common, regardless of the figures you throw out there.
> 
> Women who are bald are viewed as most likely someone going through chemo or having an underlying medical condition. It's just not the norm to see women bald or balding...so of course you can expect stares. You're argument is really based on comparing apples to oranges.


 First, unlike others, thanks for being rational in your discussion. However, just wanted to say that I'm actually comparing apples to apples. Take a look at the statistics:

http://www.statisticbrain.com/hair-loss-statistics/

The hair loss numbers for women are only slightly over a third less than men. And as age increases, women actually surpass men (diffuse thinning... which is just as devastating. Trust me.)

The real number that's the problem here is those that seek treatment. You can see for yourself that less than 1/35 (if that were only men, which it's not) of men are even seeking treatment in the first place. Why do we expect drug companies to be working overtime to help us when people aren't seeking help in the first place (obviously most on this board have/do... I mean the general hair loss populous)? Sure, there's 35 million men losing their hair... but, even with an incredible effective drug like Propecia, if less than several hundred thousand men are even bothering to get that... what's their incentive financially to spend tens of millions on a new treatment? THAT'S the problem unfortunately.

Also, not directed toward you, but just wanted to point out that perhaps the reason that there's a lot of pubmed women's hairloss studies is because they are STILL testing anything they can to find something that works. At present there is no treatment anywhere near Propecia's efficacy. We have it way better than them on that front in that it's at least an option. Finally, hair transplants are another option we have that women don't in most cases. They are more often than not diffuse thinners and don't have any viable donor zone.

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## hellouser

> Sure, there's 35 million men losing their hair... but, even with an incredible effective drug like Propecia, if less than several hundred thousand men are even bothering to get that... what's their incentive financially to spend tens of millions on a new treatment? THAT'S the problem unfortunately.


 The 35 million figure is an indication youre from USA. There are areas inhabited by mankind outside your borders. Also, there are *far* more than 35 million balding men in the world.

You also need to be far more aggressive and not so passive about the lack of a treatment in 2013. There's a reason why there isn't incentive to take Propecia; its because for the (significantly large) most part IT SUCKS. It rarely ever gets any guy a full norwood level back, it can halt hair loss but not always and usually only slows it down, so to most balding men theyre going to be bald anyway..... and to meddle with hormone screwing durgs that could permanently damage you is playing with fire considering the drug may potentially NOT work for you in the long run or stop working later on as well. Bill Burr (famous comedia) joked about Propecia and his baldness too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxLCvZxsqGg

HOWEVER

You give men a viable treatment; hair multiplication or a one time procedure to completely stop further loss with no side effects *will* give men the incentive to do something about it. There isnt incentive now because the current crop of treatments is bullshit. So women and men have it equally shitty in the end as theres no _real_ treatment unless your a guy who wants to take a serious risk of many potential side effects.... thats the ONLY benefit we have but I dont see it at all as a benefit.

Even the chart you posted shows a Sugrical hair restoration worldwide revenue worth $1.87 Billion... do you have any idea how high that number would be, if propecia was replaced with a legitimate and superior alternative? Its mostly men who go for surgical too so the number would increase even more as women would then have an actual solution as well.

You know... on second though, since people give more of a shit about womens problems (because anything that happens to a guy is considered funny, hence the socially accepted mockery of balding men) maybe it would be a good idea for women to start some bitching about hair loss... cuz lord knows that all the men combined in the world won't make a lick of a difference any time soon, which is what our generation RIGHT NOW needs.

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## scrumb

> The 35 million figure is an indication youre from USA. There are areas inhabited by mankind outside your borders. Also, there are *far* more than 35 million balding men in the world.


 Sorry for not being clearer. That was meant only as a statistic in the percentage sense (male to female ratio). I'd venture that the ratios are similar in most developed countries.

I realize that you hate Propecia (as is clear in previous posts through the years), but your statement of "it can halt hair loss but not always and usually only slows it down, so to most balding men theyre going to be bald anyway" just doesn't make sense. It DOES halt hairloss for ~ 8 or 9 out of 10 men who take it. Yes, that's "not always", but that's an extremely high ratio for a simple once a day treatment. And yes, it just "slows it down"... but as I've stated (and this is personal experience) it's slowed the progression over 17 YEARS from complete baldness to a strong Norwood 2. That's pretty fantastic efficacy. No, it doesn't regrow (which is why, for myself even, I'm interested in this forum in the first place) for the most part... but if men choose to take it when they first start balding, their odds of keeping what they have for YEARS are extremely high.

The vitriol against Propecia, near as I can tell, really took off following the GWU study published a couple years back. A study that questioned men solicited from propeciahelp.com   OBVIOUSLY the reported side-effect percentages from that group are going to be through the roof. It's like publishing a study saying that Samsung is the most unreliable electronics manufacturer in the world... as reported by the board members of samsungsucks.com

I'm not saying there isn't the chance of side-effects. There is, roughly 2-3%. And for those that suffer from them, the VAST majority will see the side-effects disappear once they discontinue use. There is surely a group that might have permanent side-effects... but, yes, it's a prescription drug. These are known quantities. The side-effect rate for Propecia is much lower than anti-depressants and people often take those without giving them a second thought (not saying that's any justification, just wondering how many on here have frightened themselves from taking the most potent drug against hairloss available today... yet take a drug, Prozac, which can cause a permanently swollen tongue.) 

You know what else has the same exact side effect rate as Propecia (again, sorry for the US numbers, but it's the percentage that I'm demonstrating... likely similar in developed nations)? Having a baby:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/birthdefects/data.html

Let's just stop that too... it's the devil. Life is measured risk.

I do disagree with you on "thats the ONLY benefit we have but I dont see it at all as a benefit" as well. As I mentioned before, men at least have the option (given the typical MPB Norwood pattern) of hair transplants. Women, by and large, given the diffuse, and thus useless, donor area, do not. Like it or not, that is another option men have that women don't for at least temporary restoration.

But again, my real issue with your statement is the assertion that seemingly ANY research on female hairloss is a useless thing because they are "the minority". If you're basing research purely on numbers games, then I assume all diabetes research should stop in lieu of Alzheimer's funding, because the diabetes death rate is 2/3 that of Alzheimer's Or likewise for heart disease over any further cancer research?

It affects more people after all.

Sorry to everyone else for hijacking this thread. Hopefully this will be the end of things (this will be my last post on this), and the topic can go back to its original purpose.

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## lilpauly

fellas the growth factors are ready! 7 of us twill be using the factors this week!

http://anageninc.com/

its cooperation between kane and the gf lab~~~

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## StayThick

> fellas the growth factors are ready! 7 of us twill be using the factors this week!
> 
> http://anageninc.com/
> 
> its cooperation between kane and the gf lab~~~


 Lilpauly, can you elaborate on how it is applied, does it need to be mixed with a vehicle, etc?

I have no clue what this is, how it arrives, or how to apply it. I'm interested in this but could you provide more information???

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## hellouser

> Lilpauly, can you elaborate on how it is applied, does it need to be mixed with a vehicle, etc?
> 
> I have no clue what this is, how it arrives, or how to apply it. I'm interested in this but could you provide more information???


 AFAIK, its applied only once a week. Not sure about the vehicle.

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## clandestine

> fellas the growth factors are ready! 7 of us twill be using the factors this week!
> 
> http://anageninc.com/
> 
> its cooperation between kane and the gf lab~~~


 Do these need to be used indefinitely to be effective, as with over treatments?

Is there any potential incidence of sides?

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## lilpauly

> Lilpauly, can you elaborate on how it is applied, does it need to be mixed with a vehicle, etc?
> 
> I have no clue what this is, how it arrives, or how to apply it. I'm interested in this but could you provide more information???


 yes man im still getting info from kane as we speak.. the vehicle is a nano solution

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## clandestine

Hey lilpauly; would you be able to address my questions? Thanks mate

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## StayThick

> yes man im still getting info from kane as we speak.. the vehicle is a nano solution


 Is it premixed in the Nano solution Lilpauly??

I might roll the dice with this as long as I can gather enough information that it won't cause cancer or tumors. Not sure if that's even possible..

I'm attacking my baldness hard. Dermarolling 2x week, which blood is now occurring which is crazy, using Minox, Neogenic, and Capillogain which I just canned for Lipogaine as (PM solution). I would like to add CB and these growth factors once we figure out the nuts and bolts of the correct vehicle for CB and I gather a little more info on these growh factors.

Lets do this.

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## lilpauly

> Do these need to be used indefinitely to be effective, as with over treatments?
> 
> Is there any potential incidence of sides?


 hi man i dont know. like 7 of uswill be using the factors this week and i have each one of them keep progress on this thread.

----------


## lilpauly

> Is it premixed in the Nano solution Lilpauly??
> 
> I might roll the dice with this as long as I can gather enough information that it won't cause cancer or tumors. Not sure if that's even possible..
> 
> I'm attacking my baldness hard. Dermarolling 2x week, which blood is now occurring which is crazy, using Minox, Neogenic, and Capillogain which I just canned for Lipogaine as (PM solution). I would like to add CB and these growth factors once we figure out the nuts and bolts of the correct vehicle for CB and I gather a little more info on these growh factors.
> 
> Lets do this.


  yes man it's premixed . We will have people using it. Trust me man I hope this is the best growth stim out there . I paid 600 so people can apply to the hairline only and they must post results

----------


## clandestine

> yes man it's premixed . We will have people using it. Trust me man I hope this is the best growth stim out there . I paid 600 so people can apply to the hairline only and they must post results


 Sounds exciting, thanks for setting it all up lilpauly.

Hopefully there are no sides to be had.

----------


## Pentarou

> hi man i dont know. like 7 of uswill be using the factors this week and i have each one of them keep progress on this thread.


 Good luck bro.  :Cool:

----------


## Boldy

> fellas the growth factors are ready! 7 of us twill be using the factors this week!
> 
> http://anageninc.com/
> 
> its cooperation between kane and the gf lab~~~


 


Nice job PaulyD! :Stick Out Tongue: 

I'm documenting my progress(hairline fix + donor progress..). Nigams work + low dose gfs.(10th the dose of what mark offers). Healing is unbelievable so far. :Smile: , the transplanted hairs, are growing,  don't seem to shed yet after 3 weeks.

----------


## Dan26

I will be documenting results ~~~

----------


## rdawg

hopefully you guys dont get sides! keep updating

----------


## lilpauly

> hopefully you guys dont get sides! keep updating


 Factors are safe

----------


## hellouser

> Factors are safe


 Can you post the list of ingredients?

----------


## 2020

> Factors are safe


 hey you still haven't addressed as to why should anyone bother for - at best - 10&#37; increase in hair count which is actually much less than that because it's 10% of your current hair and not original hair. Are there any better studies?

----------


## hellouser

> hey you still haven't addressed as to why should anyone bother for - at best - 10% increase in hair count which is actually much less than that because it's 10% of your current hair and not original hair. Are there any better studies?


 It was 29% increase 'at best' and that was for women. Average increase was 10%. Men respond to hair treatment much better than women, you could take a wild guess and assume we could get higher numbers in increase.

----------


## 2020

> Men respond to hair treatment much better than women, you could take a wild guess and assume we could get higher numbers in increase.


 where did you get that? It's completely opposite of that. Women have much less DHT and much more estrogen - these are all pro-hair growth conditions. Even Gail said that Histogen works "very well" for women versus men.

----------


## Dan26

2020 keep in mind in the trials this was only used once every 2 weeks, some trialists will be using it weekly or even more often

----------


## lilpauly

> hey you still haven't addressed as to why should anyone bother for - at best - 10% increase in hair count which is actually much less than that because it's 10% of your current hair and not original hair. Are there any better studies?


 10% in hair count and 10% in hair thickness thats preet impressive~

results imo, the 2nd one is just a follow-up of the first one and with only 10 applications such results are pretty damn nice. Also take in account those people ain't on a anti-androgen, minox or whatsoever. A combination of growth factors + anti androgen+ minox or so would yield even better results.Also it's well described that using noggin will block bmp4 > induce shh that induces WNT-10B

some people  reached 29% regrowth and almost 28% thickening.

----------


## lilpauly

> Can you post the list of ingredients?


 they contain VERY VERY Expnsive growth factors like the ones in histogen! 

FGF,IGF-1,VEGF,stem cell factors, KGF-1,superroxide dismutase adn Noggin

----------


## hellouser

> they contain VERY VERY Expnsive growth factors like the ones in histogen! 
> 
> FGF,IGF-1,VEGF,stem cell factors, KGF-1,superroxide dismutase adn Noggin


 FGF?

As in... FGF-9? If so, that will never penetrate the skin, its molecular weight is 23,000 dalton. Human skin only allows up to around 500 dalton to pass through it.

----------


## lilpauly

> FGF?
> 
> As in... FGF-9? If so, that will never penetrate the skin, its molecular weight is 23,000 dalton. Human skin only allows up to around 500 dalton to pass through it.


 I'm not a 100% sure hellouser I will ask Kane , it's a special nano solution vehicle as well

----------


## lilpauly

Is says just fgf in the trials

----------


## hellouser

> Is says just fgf in the trials


 Hmmm... FGF-9 is what Follica is supposedly using to create new hair follicles with wounding. Its very well possible that wounding plus these growth factors COULD lead to growth of hair, but FGF-9 specifically would be key. However, I think it'd work best if injected using a diabetic needle or a mesogun.

----------


## lilpauly

helluser Basic fibroblast growth factor . its on the webpage

----------


## lilpauly

what is the nano solution?
As most growth factors in normal situations are very unstable and vehicle wouldnt penetrate our skin, weve encapsulated them in nano particles. 
These little particles carry the growth factors past the epidermal layer.


How long are the growth factors stable?

Whereas growth factors are normally stable for a limited period of time we made sure ours are extremely stable in the specialized nano vehicle.
The Nano solutions are stable for 3 months at room temperature, however, once received, we recommend the solutions refrigerated at 2-8 Celsius. Under those conditions the solution should be stable for a minimum of 12 months

----------


## StayThick

This sounds extremely interesting....

Any concern for cancer of any kind? That's my only hold up with this.

----------


## Boldy

> This sounds extremely interesting....
> 
> Any concern for cancer of any kind? That's my only hold up with this.


 

sounds like more than a valid question to me. I have ordered this btw, Tracking it says shipping from UK. so it should be here any day or so..



regarding this study, they show what happens when FDA approved more than 100  higher dosed gfs than found in cosmetics, and that on ulcers etc (open wounds..)

regarding this publication, they don't seem concerned about a balanced low dosed gfs.


http://www.gvi.com.mx/Skinmedica/Pub...ayo%202009.pdf

Potential Risks of Growth Factors
Growth factors are key to the control of cellular proliferation
and differentiation and, if unregulated, could mediate carcinogenic transformation of cells. The presence of receptors for
some GFs on melanoma cells and the expression of certain
GFs by cancerous cells55have raised concerns about the potential for topically applied GFs to stimulate carcinogenesis. The
effects of receptor presence or their increased expression on
tumor cells are not yet defined. However, a recent FDA investigation suggests that chronic administration of high concentrations of recombinant PDGF directly into debrided diabetic pressure wounds may result in increased mortality from various
types of malignancies that were remote from the site of treatment.56 The prescription product that was the subject of this
FDA investigation contains a more than 1 million-fold higher
concentration of PDGF than the highest levels detected in topical cosmeceutical products. In addition, the prescription prod
 uct is applied directly to dermal tissue of a debrided wound,
bypassing the epidermal barrier. It appears unlikely that effects
observed after applying an extremely high concentration of a
single, unbalanced growth factor directly to the dermis can be
extrapolated to a topical cosmeceutical product, containing a
physiological balance of growth factors applied to essentially
intact epidermis. The effects of a physiologically balanced mixture of multiple GF are proposed to be restorative, rather than
therapeutic, in nature. One could also propose that the use of
a physiologically balanced GF mixture, rather than individual
unopposed GFs, might reduce or eliminate the risk of uncontrolled cell growth. We believe that the levels of GFs in skin after
application to the epidermis are not significantly higher than
are those following pro-inflammatory events such as chemical
peels, laser resurfacing or skin infections.

----------


## rdawg

> sounds like more than a valid question to me. I have ordered this btw, Tracking it says shipping from UK. so it should be here any day or so..
> 
> 
> 
> regarding this study, they show what happens when FDA approved more than 100  higher dosed gfs than found in cosmetics, and that on ulcers etc (open wounds..)
> 
> regarding this publication, they don't seem concerned about a balanced low dosed gfs.


 Stuff worries me too much to try it myself, it's very early in the research of these things, even though they are very promising.

I applaud you guys for taking the risk though! hopefully it works out!

----------


## StayThick

> Stuff worries me too much to try it myself, it's very early in the research of these things, even though they are very promising.
> 
> I applaud you guys for taking the risk though! hopefully it works out!


 Same. I did ask more than a valid question, but I'd be just way to nervous to do this without knowing the possible risks.

My hair isn't worth possibly tumors, etc.

----------


## lilpauly

It's safe they did it in trials

----------


## Jcm800

> It's safe they did it in trials


 How long was that.. A month or two?!

----------


## lilpauly

> How long was that.. A month or two?!


 I'm not certain bro I will find out. There is risk to any experimentals but growth factors seem to one of the safer ones compared to ru, asc , etc

----------


## Jcm800

Cool man, seems interesting, does it help in hairline loss do you know?

----------


## hellouser

> Cool man, seems interesting, does it help in hairline loss do you know?


 We won't know until its tested on men. The growth factors were trialed on women. Men typically respond better to hair loss treatments.

----------


## Jcm800

> We won't know until its tested on men. The growth factors were trialed on women. Men typically respond better to hair loss treatments.


 Ok thanks, have to see how it goes then..

----------


## StayThick

Hope you guys post us on your progress with this. I'm following this thread closely.

Lilpauly, not to go off topic, but do you still use Capillogain? I didn't see much from 5 months use.

----------


## lilpauly

Yes man they must ......

----------


## Cob984

Im gona buy this too,
this is the gf nano solution 30g correct?

----------


## Cob984

Just ordered it as well

----------


## StayThick

> Im gona buy this too,
> this is the gf nano solution 30g correct?


 How much is everyone applying? Anybody use it for the first time yet?

I'm interested in seeing what this can do after a dermarolling session...

----------


## Imalmostbald

I ordered too, will post my findings here. Going to use it 2-3 times a week , 2 ml a day (1 time in the morning 1 time evening) with a dermaroller of 0.5mm. I am probably going to induce some wounding too with a 1.5mm and right after apply these growth factors.

----------


## hellouser

> I ordered too, will post my findings here. Going to use it 2-3 times a week , 2 ml a day (1 time in the morning 1 time evening) with a dermaroller of 0.5mm. I am probably going to induce some wounding too with a 1.5mm and right after apply these growth factors.


 lilpauly mentioned once a week application should suffice. Also, if youre going to go down the experimental route, I would recommend to try deep dermarolling/wounding FIRST and then applying the growth factors as the penetration through skin will be MUCH easier and perhaps (and most likely) a synergistic effect between wounding/healing/growth factors.

----------


## Imalmostbald

> lilpauly mentioned once a week application should suffice. Also, if youre going to go down the experimental route, I would recommend to try deep dermarolling/wounding FIRST and then applying the growth factors as the penetration through skin will be MUCH easier and perhaps (and most likely) a synergistic effect between wounding/healing/growth factors.


 Yeah i will, but i  dont know if wounding with a 1.5mm and the next day after dermarolling with a 0.5mm wont interfere with the healing process etc, have to read about that. I know 0.5mm is enough for those growth factors to reach up past the skin and exert a biological activity. I do agree that wounding could have a synergistic effect with growth factors + minoxidil (b catenin expression, vccg turn off >fstl1 >bmp4 antagonist, pge2 inducer, damn minox is great lol!) + will be using RU too. So my regimen will be RU + growth factors + minoxidil+ wounding.

I want to get better results as the study, and thats why i will be using it 2-3 times a week 2 times a day. I'm not worried myself about cancer risk or other side-effects, as this seems to be a pretty balanced growth factor mixture. Plus the dosage is pretty safe too imo, just look at that regranex gel with a PDGF concentration of 100ug/ml. Passed the fda though it has a risk warning, we are talking about a single exogenous growth factor directly applied to a wound on a mega dosage. This is a way loser dose + more balanced.

----------


## hellouser

> Yeah i will, but i  dont know if wounding with a 1.5mm and the next day after dermarolling with a 0.5mm wont interfere with the healing process etc, have to read about that. I know 0.5mm is enough for those growth factors to reach up past the skin and exert a biological activity. I do agree that wounding could have a synergistic effect with growth factors + minoxidil (b catenin expression, vccg turn off >fstl1 >bmp4 antagonist, pge2 inducer, damn minox is great lol!) + will be using RU too. So my regimen will be RU + growth factors + minoxidil+ wounding.
> 
> I want to get better results as the study, and thats why i will be using it 2-3 times a week 2 times a day. I'm not worried myself about cancer risk or other side-effects, as this seems to be a pretty balanced growth factor mixture. Plus the dosage is pretty safe too imo, just look at that regranex gel with a PDGF concentration of 100ug/ml. Passed the fda though it has a risk warning, we are talking about a single exogenous growth factor directly applied to a wound on a mega dosage. This is a way loser dose + more balanced.


 Be very, VERY careful with dermarolling and RU. The easy penetration could lead RU to go systemic which may (or may not) give you bad side effects. This is why CB should be a far better option; it binds to the recept and blocks DHT at the follicle, goes benign if enters the blood stream and does not inhibit product of DHT.

I would stick to wounding once a week, I posted in my dermaroller thread that the healing process is typically over after about 10 days, so dermarolling more than once a week may not allow for all the growth factors to be induced ON TIME, which Follica even suggests that timing is a factor.

----------


## Conpecia

> I would stick to wounding once a week, I posted in my dermaroller thread that the healing process is typically over after about 10 days, so dermarolling more than once a week may not allow for all the growth factors to be induced ON TIME, which Follica even suggests that timing is a factor.


 there are some who strongly disagree with this statement hell. i think one was stoic at *******. he thinks wounding every few days is better but of course now i've forgotten his reasoning, but at the time it made sense.

----------


## hellouser

> there are some who strongly disagree with this statement hell. i think one was stoic at *******. he thinks wounding every few days is better but of course now i've forgotten his reasoning, but at the time it made sense.


 Here's what I'm basing it off (mind you, I'm not saying wounding more than once a week will give worse or better results, none of us are sure yet)






> These results imply a regulatory network in hair follicles wherein PGD2 inhibits, whereas PGE2/F2a promote, hair follicle function.
> PGs are key inﬂammatory mediators involved in wound. We also found that during wound healing, the capacity of tissue to generate PGE2 and PGD2 is separated over time, thus providing evidence consistent with the distinct functions of PGs. These results are similar to those observed after incisional wound healing in DBA/I mice (Kapoor et al., 2007). In C57Bl/ 6J and DBA/I strains and models of wound healing, PGE2 is the more abundant product during the early phases of wound healing. Elevated levels of PGE2, a potent immune activator, are consistent with progressing inﬂammation (Sakata et al., 2010). Whereas, at later stages, when inﬂammation is resolving, PGE2 levels taper off and PGD2 becomes the predominant PG.


 Read more here: http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpos...&postcount=547

----------


## lilpauly

2 or 3 times week it needs to be applied.

----------


## StayThick

> there are some who strongly disagree with this statement hell. i think one was stoic at *******. he thinks wounding every few days is better but of course now i've forgotten his reasoning, but at the time it made sense.


 It's all experimental at this point, regardless of the study.

I do it 2 times a week because I heal fairly quickly, and I think I could benefit more from that extra day. I have no scientific proof that proves that though. That's just my personal choice. I don't think dermarolling 2-3 times a week will have less than an impact vs just doing it 1 time a week. Logic doesn't make any sense to me on how that can be.

----------


## lilpauly

Some1 is using the growth factors in the Dutch forum I will post the thread

----------


## Arashi

> Some1 is using the growth factors in the Dutch forum I will post the thread


 http://www.haarweb.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=32621

----------


## StayThick

> http://www.haarweb.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=32621


 How many people on this forum can understand or speak Dutch? Thread link useless. 

Lilpauly, are they experiencing results? What's the feedback like?

----------


## lilpauly

> How many people on this forum can understand or speak Dutch? Thread link useless. 
> 
> Lilpauly, are they experiencing results? What's the feedback like?


 There is approx 12 of us and none have gotten the grow th factors yet , boldy might get them tommorow , u can google translate it or I will post it english

----------


## hellouser

> There is approx 12 of us and none have gotten the grow th factors yet , boldy might get them tommorow , u can google translate it or I will post it english


 Something tells me the growth factors with VIGOROUS wounding (2-3mm dermaroller) may give Histogen like results.

----------


## Arashi

> How many people on this forum can understand or speak Dutch? Thread link useless.


 Never heard about google translate ?
http://translate.google.nl/translate...D32621&act=url

----------


## hellouser

> Never heard about google translate ?
> http://translate.google.nl/translate...D32621&act=url


 Its not very accurate.

----------


## Arashi

> Its not very accurate.


 Actually I'm always amazed at how good it is. Of course it's not perfect especially not if users make typo's (like unfortunately quite a few of the users in that thread do), but it's good enough to see what they're talking about and that there's no interesting info there just yet (Wesley just received his growthfactors). Hopefully soon to come.

----------


## lilpauly

> Something tells me the growth factors with VIGOROUS wounding (2-3mm dermaroller) may give Histogen like results.


 It could be a game changer , I am asking every 1 who is using the growth factors to keep every1 updated

----------


## StayThick

> It could be a game changer , I am asking every 1 who is using the growth factors to keep every1 updated


 I'm most interested in these growth factors at the moment. 

Like Hellouser mentioned, after a dermarolling session these growth factors could be huge. Keep thinking about pulling the trigger, but I think it's best I wait it out. Histogen like results would be amazing, especially if we can get some hairline growth.

Dermarolling + Growth Factors + CB (correct vehicle) = Game Changer

----------


## lilpauly

> I'm most interested in these growth factors at the moment. 
> 
> Like Hellouser mentioned, after a dermarolling session these growth factors could be huge. Keep thinking about pulling the trigger, but I think it's best I wait it out. Histogen like results would amazing, especially if we can get some hairline growth.
> 
> Dermarolling + Growth Factors + CB (correct vehicle) = Game Changer


 Yes man hold back and wait tell people starting reporting , we will know approx 6 weeks how good they are

----------


## DesperateOne

> Yes man hold back and wait tell people starting reporting , we will know approx 6 weeks how good they are


 How do people know that CB is the correct vehicle? We need to get that growth factor and fast!!! How can those chemical engineers take so freaking long to just copy something that is happening in the body, it's not like they have to invent it. Just see what it's made of,  clone it and they should be done. 

and don't give me that BS about it being hard, that's what you studied for, Software engineering is hard and you don't hear people complaining about how hard it is.

----------


## hellouser

> How do people know that CB is the correct vehicle? We need to get that growth factor and fast!!! How can those chemical engineers take so freaking long to just copy something that is happening in the body, it's not like they have to invent it. Just see what it's made of,  clone it and they should be done. 
> 
> and don't give me that BS about it being hard, that's what you studied for, Software engineering is hard and you don't hear people complaining about how hard it is.


 Software engineering is easy actually. Computer engineering is hard.

Stem Cell research takes a dump on both combined as we barely know anything about the human body in the grand scheme of things. Regenerative medicine is just starting to get its wings, it'll be some time before it flies.

----------


## lilpauly

> Software engineering is easy actually. Computer engineering is hard.
> 
> Stem Cell research takes a dump on both combined as we barely know anything about the human body in the grand scheme of things. Regenerative medicine is just starting to get its wings, it'll be some time before it flies.


 I am not a engineer lol

----------


## lilpauly

I think we should start a track progress thread for the growth factors

----------


## Dan26

> I think we should start a track progress thread for the growth factors


 I will take baselines and start a thread as soon as I get the gf's ~~~

----------


## DesperateOne

Let's say that his works really well, how much would they be able to drop the price for the regular consumer? I want to try it but right now it seems like they're charging quite a bit. Also, how long does that $239.00 solution last? A month?

----------


## hellouser

> Let's say that his works really well, how much would they be able to drop the price for the regular consumer? I want to try it but right now it seems like they're charging quite a bit. Also, how long does that $239.00 solution last? A month?


 lilpauly says up to a year  :Smile:

----------


## lilpauly

> lilpauly says up to a year


 If u apy to the hairline only 30 grams would last a very long time. I apply topicals to the hairline only and they last forever

----------


## DesperateOne

> lilpauly says up to a year


 Thanks bro, for some reason I just got chills of happiness running down my neck. I am getting a good feeling about all this we are doing this month with dermaroller, this and all. It may not be the cure but I think this will be enough for now. WE CAN DO THIS!!!

----------


## lilpauly

> Let's say that his works really well, how much would they be able to drop the price for the regular consumer? I want to try it but right now it seems like they're charging quite a bit. Also, how long does that $239.00 solution last? A month?


 Well growth factors are very very expensive, this basically has the same ingredients as histogen , they also take forever to produce. I highly suggest u wait for people in trials to post results

----------


## DesperateOne

> Well growth factors are very very expensive, this basically has the same ingredients as histogen , they also take forever to produce. I highly suggest u wait for people in trials to post results


 Alright thanks man, will wait for you guys to finish. On a tangent note, but not completely irrelevant, do you think this would work for growing a mustache or a beard? It should be the same theory, right?

----------


## hellouser

> Thanks bro, for some reason I just got chills of happiness running down my neck. I am getting a good feeling about all this we are doing this month with dermaroller, this and all. It may not be the cure but I think this will be enough for now. WE CAN DO THIS!!!


 I've been reading more about the dermarolling method in regards to the wounding theory from follica, I think theres a lot more to explore but I think it NEEDS to be pointed out that we're very, VERY close to finally cracking it. We just need to keep pushing experimentation with wounding of all sorts of devices. Dermarolling with some wounding with 1.5mm microneedles most likely wont get us anywhere near NW0 but it should help. I think we need to wound more. One member on another forum pointed out this:




> For Follica style wounding you need a wound that is deep enough to remove the epidermis and reach the dermis. It has to large enough so that it can't close on itself. The skin faces a decision, *"Do I become a follicle or do I become skin?"*. By promoting the correct molecular signals, the idea is that we can push the intrafollicular epithelial stem cells (Not HF bulge cells btw). Two are known to upregulate this process - Wnt and FGF9.


 Which is more or less what mitosis is: cell splitting, but not actually splitting cells in half, but the cells actually replicate themselves. If you cut yourself, cells in your skin should multiply to cover up the damaged area. But here's the problem: we're not doing that at the follicle level!!

----------


## lilpauly

Hellouser off topic what do u think of fgf9 I might add this to my regimen

----------


## hellouser

> Hellouser off topic what do u think of fgf9 I might add this to my regimen


 Something tells me it might be the holy grail to follicle neogenesis. However, I'd first like to see what results people might get with dermabrasion alone, then with the growth factors and finally, potentially the most potent substance of all, FGF-9.

I think all of our efforts should be put into the dermarolling/dermabrasion methods and make a SERIOUS attempt to crack it. Get some guys on heavy wounding on the skin, see what happens when certain topicals are applied and hopefully watch hair GROW.

KO1 knows LOTS about this, I'd get his input on this.

I'm 30 next year, I don't want to spend my 30s balding/receding anymore. Greying hair is going to be cured next year, but bald men are going to continue being demonized by other men but especially by women. I'm fvcking tired of time, time to get busy with figuring out Follica's method and doing something about this ourselves.

----------


## StayThick

Any update by those trying the growth factors?? I'm sure somebody has tried it a week or so already.

All I hear is crickets at the moment..like everything else.

----------


## rdawg

> Any update by those trying the growth factors?? I'm sure somebody has tried it a week or so already.
> 
> All I hear is crickets at the moment..like everything else.


 nothing will take a week to work man, this along with probably anything else will take at least a month or so to take notice.

Plus you have to factor in that we may be using the wrong vehicle, or maybe the wrong growth factors, there's alot we could be doing wrong or right!

We do know that this stuff works to some extent as it's used in Histogen and Histogen has shown positive results with them.

We also know wounding has a possibility of working.

We are getting closer to a cure(or something that works well), definitely not farther.

----------


## lilpauly

mine arrived today and im very excited to use them~~~~

----------


## lilpauly

> nothing will take a week to work man, this along with probably anything else will take at least a month or so to take notice.
> 
> Plus you have to factor in that we may be using the wrong vehicle, or maybe the wrong growth factors, there's alot we could be doing wrong or right!
> 
> We do know that this stuff works to some extent as it's used in Histogen and Histogen has shown positive results with them.
> 
> We also know wounding has a possibility of working.
> 
> We are getting closer to a cure(or something that works well), definitely not farther.


 we are using the same exact vehicle they used in the studies ....

----------


## lilpauly

in the studies there were no sides reported but with every experimental hair loss treatments the risk is unknown . i want make this very clear. i hope people will be posting results! im going to take a break from forums for while , in 2 weeks or so i will post pictures

----------


## DesperateOne

> mine arrived today and im very excited to use them~~~~


 That is great news, what are you mixing it with again as a vehicle? 
So you made a wire transfer to cane in order to purchase the CB 3?

Lastly, I suggest that you do a new thread when you're about to post your results as all the posts are getting long confusing.

----------


## lilpauly

> That is great news, what are you mixing it with again as a vehicle? 
> So you made a wire transfer to cane in order to purchase the CB 3?
> 
> Lastly, I suggest that you do a new thread when you're about to post your results as all the posts are getting long confusing.


 It's already in the vehicle, I will make a new thread and can Some 1 recommend a good camera

----------


## Jazz1

I found you bro lol.

----------


## lilpauly

> I found you bro lol.


 you u are my brother. jazz u are just like me !

----------


## Jazz1

> you u are my brother. jazz u are just like me !


  :Smile:  not hard find you bro, this forum seems wicked.

----------


## lilpauly

> not hard find you bro, this forum seems wicked.


 yes man baldtruthtalk is the most active forum. experts, scientist come to this site!

----------


## Jazz1

Bro what's the latest on this cb stuff is it a cure? You got promox yet? I used proxiphen again today hairline. Oh and iron dragon going to sell cb soon.

----------


## lilpauly

> Bro what's the latest on this cb stuff is it a cure? You got promox yet? I used proxiphen again today hairline. Oh and iron dragon going to sell cb soon.


 hi jazz with cb we only gotta find the vehicle and then we are set! my promox should arrive anyday now! i paid over a week ago

here is my regimen"
promox-daily
proxiphen-3x week
capillogain-daily
growth factors-4x week
ru-daily
saba daily

----------


## Jazz1

This cb sounds promising? It's like it blocks it all at the skin right? So like a cure treatment?

----------


## hellouser

> This cb sounds promising? It's like it blocks it all at the skin right? So like a cure treatment?


 Not a cure, but on paper its a fantastic and superior alternative to Finasteride. I've been on it for about a week. I'll be posting results in the coming months when/if hair has regrown.

----------


## Jazz1

> Not a cure, but on paper its a fantastic and superior alternative to Finasteride. I've been on it for about a week. I'll be posting results in the coming months when/if hair has regrown.


 Has it stopped hairloss  :Smile: ?

----------


## Conpecia

Jazz you should post here it is a better forum than *** or HLH... Much more active with experimentals

----------


## lilpauly

> Jazz you should post here it is a better forum than *** or HLH... Much more active with experimentals


 *** is a good forum ,

----------


## Jazz1

> Jazz you should post here it is a better forum than *** or HLH... Much more active with experimentals


 Yea I am now  :Smile:  like this more already. I follow Mark as he's a legend helped me out alot.

----------


## hellouser

> Has it stopped hairloss ?


 Not in 1 week, lol. I can say with certainty my shedding has decreased. And I've skipped a couple days as well to make sure it wasn't a fluke. During showers I still shed quite a bit but throughout the day its a significant improvement. I'm still trying to figure out if I should use Oleyl/PG or Ethanol/PG.

----------


## Jazz1

> Not in 1 week, lol. I can say with certainty my shedding has decreased. And I've skipped a couple days as well to make sure it wasn't a fluke. During showers I still shed quite a bit but throughout the day its a significant improvement. I'm still trying to figure out if I should use Oleyl/PG or Ethanol/PG.


 Just but some lipogaine and throw it inside their, it has good carrier vehicle. I wonder how iron dragon are going to make their vehicle.

----------


## lilpauly

Jazz in 3 or months we are going to have nw0

----------


## JJacobs152

Lilpauly, what can you recommend for the temples?

----------


## StayThick

> Jazz in 3 or months we are going to have nw0


 I'd like in on that statement lilpauly...

----------


## Jazz1

> I'd like in on that statement lilpauly...


 Mark joking he probably referring to CB.

----------


## Jazz1

> Lilpauly, what can you recommend for the temples?


 I use promox and proxiphen but proxiphen EOD, I had temple regrowth, sometimes the big 3 isn't enough you need topicals in small amounts to target these areas etc.

----------


## DesperateOne

> Not in 1 week, lol. I can say with certainty my shedding has decreased. And I've skipped a couple days as well to make sure it wasn't a fluke. During showers I still shed quite a bit but throughout the day its a significant improvement. I'm still trying to figure out if I should use Oleyl/PG or Ethanol/PG.


 Hellouser, so I have some money now, I want to try something before it's too late for me. If you were in my shoes, which one would you give a try, to CB or to the growth factors?

----------


## lilpauly

> Hellouser, so I have some money now, I want to try something before it's too late for me. If you were in my shoes, which one would you give a try, to CB or to the growth factors?


 hi man i would like to answer the question forhellouser lol. with cb we must find a proper vehicle. with the nano solution we have approx 12 that have either started using them this week or will begin to. i highly suggest u wait and see the progress people report before making any decision.  i believe 100&#37; believe in the growth factors. on a side note:  take a look at the dermaroller study on this site it has over 75000 views! perphaps u could use a dermroller first before making a decision regarding any experimental.

----------


## Dan26

> Hellouser, so I have some money now, I want to try something before it's too late for me. If you were in my shoes, which one would you give a try, to CB or to the growth factors?


 No one could give you a straight answer on that man. If I were you I would wait a little bit until more people start using, but if you really want to roll the dice with one of them, hard to say which. Atleast with the growth factors you can use them exactly as the studies suggest, whereas CB we are still trying to figure out an effective vehicle, and the Cosmo trials that had great success were using iontophoresis not a topical vehicle. CB has an excellent safety profile, and we don't know much about growth factors but there were no adverse affects in the trials.

----------


## DesperateOne

> hi man i would like to answer the question forhellouser lol. with cb we must find a proper vehicle. with the nano solution we have approx 12 that have either started using them this week or will begin to. i highly suggest u wait and see the progress people report before making any decision. farrel on hairlosshelp is 100% against experimentals and has ridiculed me for having the growth factors produced . i believe 100% believe in the growth factors. on a side note:  take a look at the dermaroller study on this site it has over 75000 views! perphaps u could use a dermroller first before making a decision regarding any experimental.


 Ok, that sounds like a good answer, what about RU. The thing is that I have been shedding like crazy and I gotten to the point where if I don't try anything soon, I will most likely not have anything more at the pace I am. I still can't believe that two months ago I had a lot of more hair, and then in weeks it went to shit. So do you think that RU would be better for me? I am already on fin and minox.

----------


## Jazz1

> Ok, that sounds like a good answer, what about RU. The thing is that I have been shedding like crazy and I gotten to the point where if I don't try anything soon, I will most likely not have anything more at the pace I am. I still can't believe that two months ago I had a lot of more hair, and then in weeks it went to shit. So do you think that RU would be better for me? I am already on fin and minox.


 How long you been on fin? Ru is good you can possibly mix with lipogaine.

----------


## DesperateOne

> How long you been on fin? Ru is good you can possibly mix with lipogaine.


 Well I have been on it for about a month now but I was on it for about 2 years before I made the switch to Dut and I think it was only sugar pills because I got them online and my hair went to shit. So now I got a prescription for fin and taking the real deal. So if I use lipgaine, I should stop using minox? because I read that the ingredients are minox 5%.
Also, if I buy RU, what should I mix it with, I know the post is here but it's like 90 pages long, I don't want to read the whole thing to know the best mixed at the end. If I order RU I am thinking about getting it from Kane and using the dermaroller with RU at the same time.

----------


## lilpauly

> I use promox and proxiphen but proxiphen EOD, I had temple regrowth, sometimes the big 3 isn't enough you need topicals in small amounts to target these areas etc.


 how long did it take for promox to arrive?

----------


## Jazz1

> Well I have been on it for about a month now but I was on it for about 2 years before I made the switch to Dut and I think it was only sugar pills because I got them online and my hair went to shit. So now I got a prescription for fin and taking the real deal. So if I use lipgaine, I should stop using minox? because I read that the ingredients are minox 5%.
> Also, if I buy RU, what should I mix it with, I know the post is here but it's like 90 pages long, I don't want to read the whole thing to know the best mixed at the end. If I order RU I am thinking about getting it from Kane and using the dermaroller with RU at the same time.


 I use regaine foam morning and just started lipogaine at night, I have RU as back up in the fridge aswell asthe iron dragon pdg2 and Dut. Iv Been on fin 2 years doing fine. The pdg2 works on my work friend, but lipogaine has good carrier ethonal and pg so RU would be ideal, but allow the mixture to dissolve 24 hours, make weekly batches so example is you want 5% you would mix 350mg ru in 7Ml lipogaine and leave for 2504 hours then apply 1ml a day for you weekly batch.

----------


## Jazz1

> how long did it take for promox to arrive?


 I think I took a month because at that time the storm happend in USA, but it won't take long once the pharmacy has made it they will ship straight. I'm going order some more in October as I have 3 left. I just use proxiphen again bro.

----------


## lilpauly

> I think I took a month because at that time the storm happend in USA, but it won't take long once the pharmacy has made it they will ship straight. I'm going order some more in October as I have 3 left. I just use proxiphen again bro.


 Very good my brother . Jazz what camera should I buy to shut up the haters .

----------


## Jazz1

> Very good my brother . Jazz what camera should I buy to shut up the haters .


 I wouldn't bother mate even if you buy a new camera you still get ignorant people, I for one have nothing to proove if someone never beleive me screw them lol as they losing out on top advice.

----------


## DesperateOne

> I use regaine foam morning and just started lipogaine at night, I have RU as back up in the fridge aswell asthe iron dragon pdg2 and Dut. Iv Been on fin 2 years doing fine. The pdg2 works on my work friend, but lipogaine has good carrier ethonal and pg so RU would be ideal, but allow the mixture to dissolve 24 hours, make weekly batches so example is you want 5% you would mix 350mg ru in 7Ml lipogaine and leave for 2504 hours then apply 1ml a day for you weekly batch.


 Okay, that sounds good, do you think dermal rolling should be used for better absorption? Also, RU is so expensive at Kane shop, about $100 a month. God dammit, anyone have any extra RU they can spare?

----------


## clandestine

> Okay, that sounds good, do you think dermal rolling should be used for better absorption? Also, RU is so expensive at Kane shop, about $100 a month. God dammit, anyone have any extra RU they can spare?


 What dosage are you using RU at?

----------


## lilpauly

Guys on the forums do not mention other websites forum including public ones. It makes sense as well. The group buys do not save and they have been a headache as well .

----------


## clandestine

> Guys on the forums do not mention other websites forum including public ones. It makes sense as well. The group buys do not save and they have been a headache as well .


 lilpauly; how long would 10g from Kane typically last?

----------


## lilpauly

> lilpauly; how long would 10g from Kane typicall last?


 A very long time. 10 grams to the hairline last all year , 2 vials of proxiphen last all year and I'm only one my second bottle of capillogain since November . I only apply topicals to the hairline

----------


## Winston

Please note, the sale or resale of medication by users is not permitted on this forum. 

Thank you.

----------


## lilpauly

> I wouldn't bother mate even if you buy a new camera you still get ignorant people, I for one have nothing to proove if someone never beleive me screw them lol as they losing out on top advice.


 im going to buy a camera, its only thing thats proves if a treamtent works or not. the i phone camera sucks

----------


## Jazz1

> im going to buy a camera, its only thing thats proves if a treamtent works or not. the i phone camera sucks


 Your two hater friends are apologising to you on HLH oh and they both said proxiphen works.

----------


## lilpauly

> Your two hater friends are apologising to you on HLH oh and they both said proxiphen works.


 Donnie was the worst . He always demanding more pics, etc . They all should apologize to me. John freeman said I like up the poop shot! Morgan and hungry didn't realize the lion zion would return.......did they say sorry? Farrel is a good person always helping newbies , I should apologize to him

----------


## Jazz1

Lol you joker, bro why ain't you tried the iron dragon stuff? Pdg2? It's working on my mate I have it as back up. Also they going to sell CB soon I think their products are legit stuff man.

----------


## lilpauly

> Lol you joker, bro why ain't you tried the iron dragon stuff? Pdg2? It's working on my mate I have it as back up. Also they going to sell CB soon I think their products are legit stuff man.


 Yes man maybe I will get the cb but I'm applying proxiphen, promox, capillogain , ru, growth factors , Saba gel, lipogaine mixed with DUt and bical, dr y topical

----------


## Jazz1

How you mix RU in lipogaine?

----------


## lilpauly

> How you mix RU in lipogaine?


 In kb . Jazz in 4 months if we don't have a nw0 do u wanna go get a fue with dr rahal?

----------


## StayThick

> In kb . Jazz in 4 months if we don't have a nw0 do u wanna go get a fue with dr rahal?


 Lilpauly, I thought you were considering a HT with Dr. Nigiam??

I like how you ask Jazz about getting an FUE so painlessly...almost like you're asking him to join you to go out to a bar on a Friday night...hey let's get a FUE, no big deal. Lol.

----------


## lilpauly

> Lilpauly, I thought you were considering a HT with Dr. Nigiam??
> 
> I like how you ask Jazz about getting an FUE so painlessly...almost like you're asking him to join you to go out to a bar on a Friday night...hey let's get a FUE, no big deal. Lol.


 Yes man I like both dr's . I'm convinced I'm related to jazz . We share the same descendants somewhere lol stack thick right now I'm starting 4 new products it my final stand . Dr y topical, dr Klien promox,growth factors , dht destroyer ****tail

----------


## lilpauly

I got lazy and lost so much ground , I'm gaining again , I bought a new camera tonight . In also applying ru, Saba gel and proxiphen ~~~~

----------


## DesperateOne

> I got lazy and lost so much ground , I'm gaining again , I bought a new camera tonight . In also applying ru, Saba gel and proxiphen ~~~~


 paul, can you tell me how can I pay to kane with Bank of America?
I am going to order RU, that seems like the only I can do right now. I wen to the wire transfer section but it's not the same as the information kane provides to be filled in. Or how did you do it yourself? Do I have to send an electronic check, so it can be mailed to him?

----------


## Jazz1

> Lilpauly, I thought you were considering a HT with Dr. Nigiam??
> 
> I like how you ask Jazz about getting an FUE so painlessly...almost like you're asking him to join you to go out to a bar on a Friday night...hey let's get a FUE, no big deal. Lol.


 Who's better? Fue?

----------


## lilpauly

> Who's better? Fue?


 Yes in 4 months we will get a transplant . I'm talking to dr right now

----------


## Jazz1

Haha which doctor I won't get it as I'm doing ok and I have pdg2 as back up and RU, but this cb sounds promising. Everyone on hairsite, HLH and my friend all have the same success with pdg2 iron dragon, complete stop on hairloss.

----------


## Jazz1

Haha check this bro Farrell has banned me because I try helping the rats, what a goon, he allows people to post about RU an un approved drug and others but when I mention iron dragon he goes on about unknow side effects etc.
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...&enterthread=y

----------


## lilpauly

> Haha check this bro Farrell has banned me because I try helping the rats, what a goon, he allows people to post about RU an un approved drug and others but when I mention iron dragon he goes on about unknow side effects etc.
> http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...&enterthread=y


 yup i know man i got banned as well! jacbob from hlf the moderator got banned, so didi a bunch of people. bryan no longer post there cuz he donest like where the forum is heading

----------


## lilpauly

> in the studies there were no sides reported but with every experimental hair loss treatments the risk is unknown . i want make this very clear. i hope people will be posting results! im going to take a break from forums for while , in 2 weeks or so i will post pictures


 like i said this is expeimental hairloss product!

----------


## Stevo1

Thanks lilpauly, Hellhouser and Adam K for your contributions;

New to contributing but see my history below for hopefully some credibility..chuckle

Quick question...why do think this Growth Factor will be any different than the following

1. AQ growth factors (see below..used on & off since 1/2010..met inventor...nice guy...answers all my scientific questions...initially great results, but less effective now. Hence my friendly suggestion is not to over use the Anagen ones and built up a tolerance too them like it seems like I did with A&Q GF's))
2. ReGenrXx with nano growth factors
3. Caregen Growth Factors

Thanks for your time in advance

----------


## lilpauly

> Thanks lilpauly, Hellhouser and Adam K for your contributions;
> 
> New to contributing but see my history below for hopefully some credibility..chuckle
> 
> Quick question...why do think this Growth Factor will be any different than the following
> 
> 1. AQ growth factors (see below..used on & off since 1/2010..met inventor...nice guy...answers all my scientific questions...initially great results, but less effective now. Hence my friendly suggestion is not to over use the Anagen ones and built up a tolerance too them like it seems like I did with A&Q GF's))
> 2. ReGenrXx with nano growth factors
> 3. Caregen Growth Factors
> ...


 hi man these factors were used in the studies last year. alot of the factors in itare also used in histogen. Anagen clearly states how much factors are in the solution. as for ersults only time will tell. lol im hoping they are as good as the studies

----------


## Stevo1

Thanks for the reply lilpauly,

I try to do my homework 1st(not be lazy) and read all the prior post 1st before asking specific questions.....Hence, 

1) based on your response you are talking about the one the univesity did (on your 1st post...I thought maybe you were referring to a different one) that Anagen is re-duplicating?

2) Sounds like Anagen is adding a few other things in addition...ie Histogen. Hence, what are the other things Histogen used that the above study did not use....and that Anagen may be adding?


I was trying to compare all the growth factors between Anagen, Histogen, AQ, GenerXx to see what the difference was...I will try and do a little more digging

Either way I was going to order today.


I did not realize my profile did not show up at the bottom of my original message to you...here it is...I think this would be helpful for some?


Biography 
-Started losing hair at 15, now 50. Should of been slick bald by 25.
-NW7 pattern outline, but still have active/alive miniturezed diffused blond hairs in balding area due to using list below.STRONG DHT genetics...products eventually lose effectiveness
-Followd hair forums since 1999. Stopped contributing yrs ago due to rudeness..sorry
1. Minoxidil s/1986, Dutrastride s/2002 
2. Proxiphen on/off since 1990,otherwise would of been slick bald by 30..thanks Dr. P
3. AQ hair growth factors on/off since 2010,Met Doctor-good guy. Just ordered Anagen GF
4. Iron-Dragon Indo/Chromo since 11/12...Ordered Pre-Mix ID CB-03-01
5. Dermrolling again..harder

----------


## hellouser

> 1. Minoxidil since 1986


 When I say hair loss sufferers are complacent, as is the general public, this is EXACTLY what I mean. To be on the same fvcking inferior treatment for nearly 30 years without anything superior is a monumental failure.

God DAMN IT, why are we still relying on Minox and oral DHT inhibitors in 2013?!

----------


## lilpauly

> Thanks for the reply lilpauly,
> 
> I try to do my homework 1st(not be lazy) and read all the prior post 1st before asking specific questions.....Hence, 
> 
> 1) based on your response you are talking about the one the univesity did (on your 1st post...I thought maybe you were referring to a different one) that Anagen is re-duplicating?
> 
> 2) Sounds like Anagen is adding a few other things in addition...ie Histogen. Hence, what are the other things Histogen used that the above study did not use....and that Anagen may be adding?
> 
> 
> ...


 Hi man I also like proxiphen it's one of the best treatments for hairlines . Dr p knows he's stuff.

----------


## Stevo1

Hi Hellhouser..

I agree with your assessment....for me let me expand a little...chuckle

•	Biography 
-Started losing hair at 15, now 50. Should have been slick bald by 25.
-NW7 pattern outline, but still have larg qty of active/alive miniaturized diffused blond hairs in balding area due to using product list below. 
-STRONG DHT genetics... NOTE..all products below eventually lose effectiveness for ME and thus need to rotate.
-Followed hair forums since 1999. Stopped contributing yrs ago due to rudeness..sorry. Back on again if civil, since exciting recent stuff and may have something to add from experience.

Regimen History:

1. Minoxidil s/1986 off label pre FDA.. including Lewenberg, Promox, NOTE: Once my hair miniaturized to a certain point I cannot use any product with ALCHOLAL. My hairs are not healthy enough to take it.
2. Finastride 1998-2002-off label pre FDA,Dutastride s/2002 off label 
3. Proxiphen on/off since 1990, otherwise would of been slick bald by 30..thanks Dr. P….he was way ahead of his time…ie inflammation.
4. AQ hair growth factors on/off since 2010, met Inventor..good guy. 


Current Regimen:

5.	MinAgent (Minoxidil) ADVANCED now with nano x200 penetration.
6.	Iron-Dragon Indo/Chromo since Nov 2013…. NOTE: stopped there OTHER PDG2 blockers (Ramotron/Cloperstal), not effective…like everyone else reported. NOTE: I think this is due to them using alcohol unlike Indo/Chromo.
7.	Dermrolling again.. pressing harder now and only once a week like recent study.

	Future Additions:

8.	Just ordered Anagen-Nano GF..sounds good but the KEY is activating “progenitor cells”, otherwise stem cells will not be activated. See may studies including visiting “stemcelex” read the scientific section. Hence, why I think AQ growth factors (#4) lost its dramtic positive effect after a few weeks.
9.	Pre-Ordered Iron Dragon CB-03-01-pre-mixed…I know it’s made with alcohol, but maybe if used only once or twice a week It will be ok for ME due to #1 above?. I will let everyone know.

----------


## StayThick

> Future Additions
> 
> 8.	Just ordered Anagen-Nano GF..sounds good but the KEY is activating progenitor cells, otherwise stem cells will not be activated. See may studies including visiting stemcelex read the scientific section. Hence, why I think AQ growth factors (#4) lost its dramtic positive effect after a few weeks.
> 9.	Pre-Ordered Iron Dragon CB-03-01-pre-mixedI know its made with alcohol, but maybe if used only once or twice a week It will be ok for ME due to #1 above?. I will let everyone know.


 How do you plan on activating the "progenitor cells" with the GF's?? Curious to how you plan on achieving this...

----------


## Jazz1

> When I say hair loss sufferers are complacent, as is the general public, this is EXACTLY what I mean. To be on the same fvcking inferior treatment for nearly 30 years without anything superior is a monumental failure.
> 
> God DAMN IT, why are we still relying on Minox and oral DHT inhibitors in 2013?!


 That's Because they don't want to cure you but treat you, make more money through treating.

----------


## Jazz1

> Hi Hellhouser..
> 
> I agree with your assessment....for me let me expand a little...chuckle
> 
> •	Biography 
> -Started losing hair at 15, now 50. Should have been slick bald by 25.
> -NW7 pattern outline, but still have larg qty of active/alive miniaturized diffused blond hairs in balding area due to using product list below. 
> -STRONG DHT genetics... NOTE..all products below eventually lose effectiveness for ME and thus need to rotate.
> -Followed hair forums since 1999. Stopped contributing yrs ago due to rudeness..sorry. Back on again if civil, since exciting recent stuff and may have something to add from experience.
> ...


 

How's the pdg2 work for you? 

My friend is using Indo chromo too and he has stopped all hairloss since 2 months now. I ordered it as back up all four, keep me posted on this cb stuff please. Have you tried using all four pdg2 blockers together seeing if that helps better?

----------


## Jazz1

I recently ditched proxiphen thinking it was bullshit and lost some ground slightly. Loads people have reported the same but now I'm back on proxiphen I should regaine my hair as people reported regaining it back once they resumed it.

----------


## Imalmostbald

I got the growth factors, nothing to report atm. Absorbs nicely though, and no side effects here (as suspected)

----------


## Stevo1

> How's the pdg2 work for you? 
> 
> My friend is using Indo chromo too and he has stopped all hairloss since 2 months now. I ordered it as back up all four, keep me posted on this cb stuff please. Have you tried using all four pdg2 blockers together seeing if that helps better?


 Hello Jazz1

Probably not clear in item#6 in my original post. Let me clarify.

1) Have used Cromoglycate & Indomethian combo since Nov/2012. Like most everyone, seemed to stop my hairloss and was starting to thicken up based on synergistic effect of other items I use in my original post.

2) Since Ramatroban & D-Cloprostenal are TRUE PDG2 BLOCKERS I used this when they became available ~April/May/2013....With just two applications it destroyed my hair and made my hair very weak. Hence, confirming in my original history post why after 35 years of balding I cannot tolerate any product with high alchohol content anymore. Make sure you check my history section as this is very PERTINANT TO MANY users on the forums.

3) Went back on cromo/indo but does not seem to be as effective for May, June, July. Part of this may have been leaving it in my car one day when it was hot. Thus, maybe changing composition. 

4) The last batch from July is doing a little bit better but no where like when I 1st started using. Have started to use more squirts the last few days and that does seem to help a little more.

As indicated in orginal post, I have ordered the Pre-Mixed CB-03-01. From I have heard it is mixed with alcohol/PG. Hence, I may be ok if I only have to use 1 or 2 times a week. It was suppose to be shipped the 1st week of August, but as you know it has been delayed. I am ok with that if they are still tweaking it.....which I suspect is the case.

Hope that helps?

2) As indicated in History section of my post...many items have worked and then start to loose their effectiveness due to explanation also in my History section above.

----------


## Stevo1

> I recently ditched proxiphen thinking it was bullshit and lost some ground slightly. Loads people have reported the same but now I'm back on proxiphen I should regaine my hair as people reported regaining it back once they resumed it.


 Jazz1,

Like my original post indicated w/long history, I have VERY STRONG DHT genetics. Hence, that is why most products work for ME (some more than others) then they lose their effectivenss over time. This happened with PROXIPHEN after a few years. Most other lose their effectiveness after a few months.

Now I have to alternate months on/off to reduce tolerance with Proxiphen. The only way it worked for so long is because it had so many different ingrediants. Once of the reasons Proctor said his product works better and delays/avods tolerance. 

He was even nice enough to give me some other special stuff he holds back for cases just like mine (Being a client for over 22 yrs and flew down to see him).  Helped a little for awhile, but then again lost effectiveness. 

All in all, it is still my tried & true constant when I go back on it after tolerance has subsided.

You may want to check out MinAgent ADVANCED. Just came out in July and had some good response. No alcohol, uses time-released nano with 200x penetration. Some other good ingredients in there too.

----------


## Stevo1

> How do you plan on activating the "progenitor cells" with the GF's?? Curious to how you plan on achieving this...


 Hi staythick,

Let me get back to you on this one after I talk with 3 different inventors of GF's I have befriended. 

I need to do a better job of explaining on why current GF's dont work to there full potential.....hence progenitor cells play a key role in giving the right "signal" to the stem cells.

Bottomline I do not want to sound like I am talking out of the side of my arse...let me get the info (I have since forgotten, but printed out an explanation one time) before I re-explain better. This topic has also been brought up before on many forums. Hence, why I do not think we have gotten great long results from GF's upto this point.

----------


## Stevo1

> I got the growth factors, nothing to report atm. Absorbs nicely though, and no side effects here (as suspected)


 Imalmostbald,

Thanks for letting us know. 

See my long history post above.


I am hoping the nano delivery will make a big difference. 

Specifically, I got AWESOME initial results with A&Q hair growth factors but results started fading. It looks like nano will help with penetrationn and I am not positive but it may appear to have more/stronger growth factors than A&Q. 

As you can see in my earlier posts I do not mind spending the money experimenting or being the guinna pig...chucke.

----------


## Jazz1

Stevo how would you suggest cycling proxiphen then? 4 months on 1month off? Also are the pdg2 iron dragon stuff working on you?

----------


## Imalmostbald

> Imalmostbald,
> 
> Thanks for letting us know. 
> 
> See my long history post above.
> 
> 
> I am hoping the nano delivery will make a big difference. 
> 
> ...


 Well yeah the nano delivery should work in theory because the individual particle size should be small enough to pass the skin. However i do recommend dermarolling for everyone who is going to use growth factors, as that is pretty awesome in terms of penetration with macromolecules and it has been proven that a commercial 0.5mm dermaroller is sufficient to drive compounds up to 72kDa through the skin. 

Interesting that you got initial great results with a&q hair growth factors. I can't seem to find a exact specification on what growth factors they use and at what dosage in their formulation.. Did you get any information about this? Anyways i used bfgf, kgf, wnt7a, noggin, shh and took the plunge with this formulation now (anageninc). I like the composition of it, especially noggin as that indirectly also induces shh and wnt (antagonize bmp4). I feel they work more as a sort of a anagen pusher especially in diffused hairloss areas. 

All those factors in the formulation are pro anagen pushers, and while they might work very good in diffused hairloss areas i doubt they will really regrow totally bald spots. I didn't manage to regrow my temples with bfgf, kgf, wnt7a and noggin and i doubt this formulation will, but who knows  :Smile: ! At least my hair on crown etc is top notch now.

----------


## hellouser

> Well yeah the nano delivery should work in theory because the individual particle size should be small enough to pass the skin. However i do recommend dermarolling for everyone who is going to use growth factors, as that is pretty awesome in terms of penetration with macromolecules and it has been proven that a commercial 0.5mm dermaroller is sufficient to *drive compounds up to 72kDa through the skin.*


 We know Cotsarelis is meddling with FGF-9 post wounding to create new hair follicles. We know FGF-9 has a molecular weight of 23kDa.

If this method of passing large molecules through skin works, I'd *love* to see FGF-9 in this vehicle post wounding.

----------


## clandestine

Imalmostbald;

So you've achieved much regrowth with growth factors?

Any negative sides? And you've managed to retain the regrowth? Are you on fin?

Cheers.

----------


## Californication

> All those factors in the formulation are pro anagen pushers, and while they might work very good in diffused hairloss areas i doubt they will really regrow totally bald spots. I didn't manage to regrow my temples with bfgf, kgf, wnt7a and noggin and i doubt this formulation will, but who knows ! At least my hair on crown etc is top notch now.


 I'm a diffuse thinner and would love to get some regrowth in my crown at a minimum as would a lot of other people I'm sure.

Can you explain your regimen in detail, where to buy these factors, safety if if you know of anything, your norwood status/how long youve been fighting the fight, photos if you have any and are comfortable sharing them. Thanks

----------


## Stevo1

> Stevo how would you suggest cycling proxiphen then? 4 months on 1month off? Also are the pdg2 iron dragon stuff working on you?


 Jazz1,

Response to your two questions:

After 35 yrs of experience with products here is my personal two cents:

1) Knowing what I know now. I would follow what Dr. Q advocates from A & Q.

First, I would not use any product every single day. Hence, use every other day.

Second, after six weeks of every other day, take a break for 1 month. and then resume  6 week regimen again. 

2) As far a my results with ALL Iron-Dragon Products...please see my other DETAILED post to you above about my experience.

Respectfully,

Stevo1

----------


## Stevo1

> Well yeah the nano delivery should work in theory because the individual particle size should be small enough to pass the skin. However i do recommend dermarolling for everyone who is going to use growth factors, as that is pretty awesome in terms of penetration with macromolecules and it has been proven that a commercial 0.5mm dermaroller is sufficient to drive compounds up to 72kDa through the skin. 
> 
> Interesting that you got initial great results with a&q hair growth factors. I can't seem to find a exact specification on what growth factors they use and at what dosage in their formulation.. Did you get any information about this? Anyways i used bfgf, kgf, wnt7a, noggin, shh and took the plunge with this formulation now (anageninc). I like the composition of it, especially noggin as that indirectly also induces shh and wnt (antagonize bmp4). I feel they work more as a sort of a anagen pusher especially in diffused hairloss areas. 
> 
> All those factors in the formulation are pro anagen pushers, and while they might work very good in diffused hairloss areas i doubt they will really regrow totally bald spots. I didn't manage to regrow my temples with bfgf, kgf, wnt7a and noggin and i doubt this formulation will, but who knows ! At least my hair on crown etc is top notch now.


 Iamalmostbald,

Thanks for the detailed reply. Let me see if I can add a few things.

1) Yes, I know the benefits of nano technology..see my bio about other new product Agent Advanced. Yes, I dermarolled with A & G growth factors as even the inventor suggested....see my lenghty bio above. In addition, he suggested his patients got even better results when they lasered after application.

2) My Growth Factor Summary- A&Q was originally called A & G...as in Amend Quintani and Greg Maguire as partners. They since split and Amend is on his own...hence A & Q.
Greg Maquire started BioRegenerative Sciences. Furthermore, Dr. Leatherman was also involved with Dr. Q then split off and created CyGenx. Bottomline, they all produce hair growth factors on their own. Each a little different ingrediant delivery method

A&Q ingredients:
Water (Aqua), Human Fibroblast Conditioned Media, Propylene Glycol, Lonicera Caprifolium (Honeysuckle) Flower Extract, Lonicera Japonica (Honeysuckle) Flower Extract, 1,2-Hexanediol, Caprylyl Glycol.....seems weak compared to your stuff now.

Cygenx technology: HE CYGENX&#174; TRI-MIX BLEND OF GROWTH FACTORS ORIGINATES FROM HUMAN FIBROBLAST, HUMAN ADIPOSE DERIVED STEM CELL AND INDUCED HUMAN ADULT PLURIPOTENT STEM CELL CONDITIONED MEDIA WHICH ARE NATURALLY SECRETED. THESE GROWTH FACTORS ARE DELIVERED IN GREATER CONCENTRATIONS AND DIVERSITY THAN THOSE PRODUCTS DERIVED FROM ONLY A SINGLE SOURCE OF CONDITIONED MEDIA.
THE ACTIVES IN REGENRXX&#174; ARE HIGHLY POTENT SIGNALING MOLECULES AND ARE ENVELOPED INTO THE ENCAPSULATING NANO-TECHNOLOGY KNOWN AS PENETRATION PLUS™. THIS TECHNOLOGY ALLOWS FOR THESE POTENT ACTIVE INGREDIENTS TO PENETRATE MORE DEEPLY INTO THE SKIN FOR EVEN GREATER DELIVERY POTENCY. THIS INCREASED POTENCY LOGICALLY TRANSLATES INTO FASTER AND BETTER DESIRED RESULTS.

Bio-Regenerative Sciences:The unique nature of the stem cell released molecules technology (SRM TechnologyTM) centers on the identification, selection, culture, and stimulation of the appropriate stem cells, and then the capture of those molecules released from the stem cells. In this manner, proprietary and patent-pending technology is used in the BioRegenerative Science (BRS) laboratory to capture what the stem cells normally release in the body. This is a systems based approach where, instead of a reductionist approach where one or two molecules are used for treatment, all of the molecules from the stem cells act together as they normally do in order to deliver the emergent properties of the system of all molecules. Further, BRS uses a technology that mimicks the manner in which the body heals itself whereby two or more types of stem cells become resident at the site of injury, and the two types of stem cells release their molecules into the tissue in concert, producing an emergent, synergistic healing effect. The use of two or more stem cell types to produce the SRM is known as BRS' S2RM Technology.TM

bottomline...it would appear the Anagen Inc product is much more powerful. Hence, why I am excited to try...since I initally got great results with A & Q.

Respectfully,

Steve

----------


## Conpecia

> Imalmostbald;
> 
> So you've achieved much regrowth with growth factors?
> 
> Any negative sides? And you've managed to retain the regrowth? Are you on fin?
> 
> Cheers.


 I'd also like to know the answers to these.

Have you continued losing hair at all Imalmostbald or did it completely stop along with the regrown crown? A lot of us would be pretty much set with crown/diffuse regrowth + a dense frontal transplant. 

Thanks for sharing.

----------


## Imalmostbald

> Imalmostbald;
> 
> So you've achieved much regrowth with growth factors?
> 
> Any negative sides? And you've managed to retain the regrowth? Are you on fin?
> 
> Cheers.


 
Pretty much however it is more of a multi angle approach as im on RU and minoxidil also. I surely know they contributed to thickening and regrowth though in my diffuse areas. 

So as i said while they were pretty good and acted like a sort of minoxidil on steroids in my diffuse areas, they did not manage to regrow my totally slick bald temples, only very minor regrowth there. No negative sides of using them, had 0 side effects. I managed to keep the regrowth, i think RU is pretty good at doing that and I advise everyone to go with any anti-androgen when using those growth factors. I don't lose hair at all at my top, front and crown area now, it is stable like hell, dense, and got pretty thick too. Temples remain hard though.

----------


## Cob984

Guys how much are you applying and how often? I have no sense of measurement given that the container is rather small and its like a jelly

----------


## Imalmostbald

> Guys how much are you applying and how often? I have no sense of measurement given that the container is rather small and its like a jelly


 im applying this 1ml a day 3-4 times in the week, try to draw it in a oral syringe. Dermarolling before applying with a 0.5 mm dermaroller.

----------


## lilpauly

when my digital camera arrives i will post pics. i believe though my results are mostly from proxiphen and capillogain at this time. when i dropped/ cut back i lost alot of ground.

----------


## Cob984

though its very early, i dont think this does anything unfortunately,
With stuff like RU i can tell immediately the stuff works, with this no

----------


## lilpauly

> though its very early, i dont think this does anything unfortunately,
> With stuff like RU i can tell immediately the stuff works, with this no


 they attack hairloss differently . at the 6-8 week mark we can get a good indication of how will it works based on the studies. westly has been using the growth factors for the longest and his report seem somewhat promising

----------


## DesperateOne

> though its very early, i dont think this does anything unfortunately,
> With stuff like RU i can tell immediately the stuff works, with this no


 If you're on RU, what happens if you don't use it for a while or you skip a few days? Also, if I am on propecia should I even bother with RU?

----------


## DesperateOne

> they attack hairloss differently . at the 6-8 week mark we can get a good indication of how will it works based on the studies. westly has been using the growth factors for the longest and his report seem somewhat promising


 Can you link me to the studies? Or where was the numbers.

----------


## lilpauly

> If you're on RU, what happens if you don't use it for a while or you skip a few days? Also, if I am on propecia should I even bother with RU?


 ^ my take ru can target area s like hairlines better then propecia . 10 grams last me a year when applied to the hairline only

----------


## lilpauly

> Can you link me to the studies? Or where was the numbers.


 http://i40.tinypic.com/2powt9v.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2ducrgi.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2ducrgi.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2lszajn.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/mrbon7.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/2cfqnp2.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/10eklft.jpg

----------


## DesperateOne

> ^ my take ru can target area s like hairlines better then propecia . 10 grams last me a year when applied to the hairline only


 oh I see, thanks for the answer. I ordered the RU 10 grams and it was really expensive to say the least, not to mention the fees. lilpauly can you do me a favor and take a look  at my pics and tell me if you think RU will help my particular hair loss. I am planning to also apply on the sides, I don't know how much I should use every day and how long will it last, I don't think those 10 grams will last me more than 3 months. I plan to use it with dermaroller and lipogaine. Or maybe just continue on the derma trial for 4 more months and store the RU in the freezer.

You can see it here. 
http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthr...727#post144727

Also, if I miss a day with RU, you think I will shed really bad?

----------


## DesperateOne

> http://i40.tinypic.com/2powt9v.jpg
> 
> http://i40.tinypic.com/2ducrgi.jpg
> 
> http://i40.tinypic.com/2ducrgi.jpg
> 
> http://i43.tinypic.com/2lszajn.jpg
> 
> http://i44.tinypic.com/mrbon7.jpg
> ...


 oh yes, I remember those pics now  :Big Grin:  . Any gain will still be welcomed.

----------


## lilpauly

> oh I see, thanks for the answer. I ordered the RU 10 grams and it was really expensive to say the least, not to mention the fees. lilpauly can you do me a favor and take a look  at my pics and tell me if you think RU will help my particular hair loss. I am planning to also apply on the sides, I don't know how much I should use every day and how long will it last, I don't think those 10 grams will last me more than 3 months. I plan to use it with dermaroller and lipogaine. Or maybe just continue on the derma trial for 4 more months and store the RU in the freezer.
> 
> You can see it here. 
> http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthr...727#post144727
> 
> Also, if I miss a day with RU, you think I will shed really bad?


 Hi man I'm not sure how long it will last u cuz u will be applying throughout the scalp. Your hairline is perfect . For some peoe ru stops hairloss completely but u still need something to grow hair such as Minox , lipogaine is good, rogaine foam is good well

----------


## DesperateOne

> Hi man I'm not sure how long it will last u cuz u will be applying throughout the scalp. Your hairline is perfect . For some peoe ru stops hairloss completely but u still need something to grow hair such as Minox , lipogaine is good, rogaine foam is good well


 So RU won't do crap for regrowing hair? I am already on fin and minox, only seen results now that I added derma rolling. Yes, my hairline is good, but everything else is shit  :Frown:  .

----------


## BudskiiHD

> Imalmostbald,
> 
> Thanks for letting us know. 
> 
> See my long history post above.
> 
> 
> I am hoping the nano delivery will make a big difference. 
> 
> ...


 Hey, You said you got awesome initial results with A&Q hair growth factors, a few questions, if you could answer will be much appreciated

1) Were you able to maintain/keep the results from A&Q GF's using stuff like Fin/DUT or RU58841 ?

2) How long before results started fading?

3) I'm interested in trying out the A&Q GF's. I understand that they come with 5 vials each with roughly 6 ml?( I tried reading he number off a screenshot on google of a vial, hard to see). Could you tell me how often you applied the GF's? every day? If this was the area you had to cover http://i.imgur.com/eFexPlO.png how many ml would you use? ( on the website, on directions tab it says apply small amounts of serum, i'm not sure how small they are talking ). Also did you cover the treatment in courses? for example the first vial is 1 course and once you finished it you waited maybe a month before starting another one.

4) "Awesome initial results", how awesome are we talking?

5) I'm guessing they are safe?

6) you said results started fading, that's with continued treatment right? If so, why would results start fading? Does your body build tolerance to it or something? Would same happen with other growth factor treatments like Histogen?

----------


## lilpauly

> So RU won't do crap for regrowing hair? I am already on fin and minox, only seen results now that I added derma rolling. Yes, my hairline is good, but everything else is shit  .


 Ru can target areas better then fin but u need something to grow the hair

----------


## DesperateOne

> Ru can target areas better then fin but u need something to grow the hair


 Okay thanks, I will be waiting your results of the growth factors.

----------


## Stevo1

> Hey, You said you got awesome initial results with A&Q hair growth factors, a few questions, if you could answer will be much appreciated
> 
> 1) Were you able to maintain/keep the results from A&Q GF's using stuff like Fin/DUT or RU58841 ?
> 
> 2) How long before results started fading?
> 
> 3) I'm interested in trying out the A&Q GF's. I understand that they come with 5 vials each with roughly 6 ml?( I tried reading he number off a screenshot on google of a vial, hard to see). Could you tell me how often you applied the GF's? every day? If this was the area you had to cover http://i.imgur.com/eFexPlO.png how many ml would you use? ( on the website, on directions tab it says apply small amounts of serum, i'm not sure how small they are talking ). Also did you cover the treatment in courses? for example the first vial is 1 course and once you finished it you waited maybe a month before starting another one.
> 
> 4) "Awesome initial results", how awesome are we talking?
> ...


 BudskiiHD,

Regarding your questions:

1) I got an intial great burst of strength & growth the first 2-4 weeks of use, then tapered off. Each cycle after that was just ok, nothing special...NOTE: See my history and other comments starting with page 18.. My problem is no matter what GF's I use, I have VERY STRONG DHT genetics, and thus I think in MY case that will always be the bigger over riding factor. Again see my complete history for what I have, am, and will be using to fight the DHT factor.

2) Each vial was good enough for ~5 applications.  You do NOT need to use one vial per session as they INITIALLY recommended. Hence, my protocal as oked by inventor is to use every other day. Hence, in my case the 5 vials would last me ~50 days or everyother day x 25 times. Then, they recommend taking a ~6 week break. I would strongly recommend this as also directed by inventor so not to built up tolerance or overstimulate. In fact, one time I ran out of some other product and was using everyday for about 1 month and definetly built up a strong tolerance for a while. Hence, had to take a 3-4 break as of May of this year.

If you are not in panic mode, you may want to hold off until I share my experience with the Anagen GF's which APPEAR to be much stronger than A&Q. They should be arriving early next week.

Also, I pre-oredered the CB-03-01 pre-mix from Iron-Dragon. I am hoping this will be the best DHT blocker I have used upto this point, and thus not be over-riding the GF's. 

Lastly, I have used a micro-needle on/off for many years. But, now after only two weeks of using only once a week stonger with more time rolling each time, my hair is really starting to anchor much better. See other threads on New Needling Study/Results.

The best balding test (PULL TEST) is the one DR. Proctor told me about..Stongly pull on a tuft of hair and see how many come out. If more than 1-3, then your miniaturizing. For me this is right on the money when thing are working or not.

Hope that helps?

Respectfully,

stevo1

----------


## BudskiiHD

> BudskiiHD,
> 
> Regarding your questions:
> 
> 1) I got an intial great burst of strength & growth the first 2-4 weeks of use, then tapered off. Each cycle after that was just ok, nothing special...NOTE: See my history and other comments starting with page 18.. My problem is no matter what GF's I use, I have VERY STRONG DHT genetics, and thus I think in MY case that will always be the bigger over riding factor. Again see my complete history for what I have, am, and will be using to fight the DHT factor.
> 
> 2) Each vial was good enough for ~5 applications.  You do NOT need to use one vial per session as they INITIALLY recommended. Hence, my protocal as oked by inventor is to use every other day. Hence, in my case the 5 vials would last me ~50 days or everyother day x 25 times. Then, they recommend taking a ~6 week break. I would strongly recommend this as also directed by inventor so not to built up tolerance or overstimulate. In fact, one time I ran out of some other product and was using everyday for about 1 month and definetly built up a strong tolerance for a while. Hence, had to take a 3-4 break as of May of this year.
> 
> If you are not in panic mode, you may want to hold off until I share my experience with the Anagen GF's which APPEAR to be much stronger than A&Q. They should be arriving early next week.
> ...


 Thank you so much for taking your time to answer, much appreciated.

I don't know If I want to try Anagen GF's. My only worry is possible side effects. I don't want to be a Guinea pig, I just have a minor receding hairline, don't want to risk anything. A&Q have been on sale for some time, they appear to be safe.

I will try the A&Q GF's. Will use 0.5ml for every application which will give about 12 applications for each vial. I will apply every other day .. so one vial will last me 24 days. Then after every vial I plan to take a month break. So will last for about 10 months.

Do you think A&Q GF's will stay stable for such a long time, will putting them in fridge buy me some more time?

But once again thanks, you've pretty much given all the info I needed.

----------


## Dan26

I took baseline pictures last week and just started taking GF's. Three times a week once on day of wounding (with 1.5mm roller) and the other times with 0.5mm roller.

I will keep everyone posted on my results~~~

----------


## hellouser

> I took baseline pictures last week and just started taking GF's. Three times a week once on day of wounding (with 1.5mm roller) and the other times with 0.5mm roller.
> 
> I will keep everyone posted on my results~~~


 SWEET!!  :Smile: 

How hard are you dermarolling though? Just 'mild erythema' or enough to cause bleeding?

----------


## Dan26

> SWEET!! 
> 
> How hard are you dermarolling though? Just 'mild erythema' or enough to cause bleeding?


 F*ck 'mild erythema' bro, I'm gushing blood all over the place! :P

Lol, I'd say the result of my rolling is similar to yours, blood aint streaming down my scalp put I am drawing quite a bit of it.

----------


## DesperateOne

> F*ck 'mild erythema' bro, I'm gushing blood all over the place! :P
> 
> Lol, I'd say the result of my rolling is similar to yours, blood aint streaming down my scalp put I am drawing quite a bit of it.


 
That's awesome dude, you're taking one for the team. What other things are you on?

----------


## Dan26

> That's awesome dude, you're taking one for the team. What other things are you on?


 Been on RU for 6 months, and it has done nothing. Started a low dose of fin and also minox 6 weeks ago (but not on entire scalp so there is an area where only GF's are being used). Don't think I respond well to AA's, hair continued declining on RU and zero changed since starting fin hair and side-effect wise.

----------


## DesperateOne

> Been on RU for 6 months, and it has done nothing. Started a low dose of fin and also minox 6 weeks ago (but not on entire scalp so there is an area where only GF's are being used). Don't think I respond well to AA's, hair continued declining on RU and zero changed since starting fin hair and side-effect wise.


 It sounds like you're desperate to try anything at this point. What Norwood are you? Good luck on the growth factors

----------


## Dan26

> It sounds like you're desperate to try anything at this point. What Norwood are you? Good luck on the growth factors


 Yes kitchen sink approach is the way to go, I'm nw2.5. 

What is your NW and treatment regimen bro?

----------


## StayThick

Any update for those on the GF's? It's been long enough I believe for those to update us on any possible sides and overall experience with this.

Is it easily applied, are most of you applying 2-3x week? If so, how much per application? Thanks gentlemen.

----------


## Dan26

> Any update for those on the GF's? It's been long enough I believe for those to update us on any possible sides and overall experience with this.
> 
> Is it easily applied, are most of you applying 2-3x week? If so, how much per application? Thanks gentlemen.


 Most are applying 2-3 times a week. I am only one week in to applications and have nothing to report.

----------


## doke

here we go again yet more experimental treatments that have not been safety tested and could harm humans oh it may regrow hair on mice? nanogen has vegf growth factors so does dermaheal how many con products that will regrow no more hair than minoxidil and propecia? and whoever said finasteride is an old treatment well its been around for prostate problems for a good few years and thats how it came to light it could be trialed for mpb and so we ended up with the 1mg a day which quite frankly is hardly nothing and if this can help young hair loss sufferers i think we should say so combined with minoxidil and nizoral twice a week some have kept there hair and if lucky regrown more so please do not knock it.
I have tried the so called experiemental treatments such as a&g growth factors and they never worked just empted my wallet and dermaheal which also has a uk product la science serum which also did nothing ru58841 caused me more hair loss where i nearly lost all my hair its recovered now but still some never regrew.
And as to men and woman we all suffer just as much in some cases except some me just shave there heads and are happy with it and yes i have had some things said like your going bald mate and slap head which now im older does not worry me but i still try to keep what i have got.
Im saying this here to educate newbe to the forum not to get taken in with science which sounds good on paper but does little to prove they will grow any hair.
I also listioned to spencer saying much what i say here that he suffered as we all do with this disease and he kept his hair with propecia and minox and some have great regrowth with these drugs and they maybe safer than experimental products that people just buy off chinese web sites.
And i have bought stuff from some of these sites and im not saying they are a fraud but i have just lost ground by stopping whats proved at this time by all the major hair loss fraternity and that is minox and propecia and although many just hate drugs as i do they maybe safer as they have been trialed on humans.

----------


## Dan26

> here we go again yet more experimental treatments that have not been safety tested and could harm humans oh it may regrow hair on mice? nanogen has vegf growth factors so does dermaheal how many con products that will regrow no more hair than minoxidil and propecia? and whoever said finasteride is an old treatment well its been around for prostate problems for a good few years and thats how it came to light it could be trialed for mpb and so we ended up with the 1mg a day which quite frankly is hardly nothing and if this can help young hair loss sufferers i think we should say so combined with minoxidil and nizoral twice a week some have kept there hair and if lucky regrown more so please do not knock it.
> I have tried the so called experiemental treatments such as a&g growth factors and they never worked just empted my wallet and dermaheal which also has a uk product la science serum which also did nothing ru58841 caused me more hair loss where i nearly lost all my hair its recovered now but still some never regrew.
> And as to men and woman we all suffer just as much in some cases except some me just shave there heads and are happy with it and yes i have had some things said like your going bald mate and slap head which now im older does not worry me but i still try to keep what i have got.
> Im saying this here to educate newbe to the forum not to get taken in with science which sounds good on paper but does little to prove they will grow any hair.
> I also listioned to spencer saying much what i say here that he suffered as we all do with this disease and he kept his hair with propecia and minox and some have great regrowth with these drugs and they maybe safer than experimental products that people just buy off chinese web sites.
> And i have bought stuff from some of these sites and im not saying they are a fraud but i have just lost ground by stopping whats proved at this time by all the major hair loss fraternity and that is minox and propecia and although many just hate drugs as i do they maybe safer as they have been trialed on humans.


 Start with and stick with what is proven, so long as you suffer no sides. If you do, or if they are ineffective, it is perfectly reasonable to seek alternative solutions. I can guarantee if fin was not approved for hairloss people would still seek it out. Pretty sure Spencer did that? Yes there are studies on fin aswell as dut, but no FDA trials for eg. proving duts long term safety for young users, yet people still take it. There are studies on humans with these growth factors. They are small, but conclusion was they were well tolerated and effective. We are just trying to replicate these studies and see if the results translate for us.

----------


## Imalmostbald

So updates from people? 

I'm into this 2/3 weeks. Absorbs very good, and makes my hair look healthy. No particular regrowth or so though, but thats to early anyway.

----------


## lilpauly

here is a small update. results are based on growth factors, capillogain, proxiphe, ext. i stopped capillogain and prox over the summer BIG BIG mistake!!!!!

----------


## DesperateOne

> here is a small update. results are based on growth factors, capillogain, proxiphe, ext. i stopped capillogain and prox over the summer BIG BIG mistake!!!!!


 Which one is the before image? Did you see any response?

----------


## lilpauly

> Which one is the before image? Did you see any response?


 just got my camera today so will be updating every week

----------


## Conpecia

the pics look good mark, and there's definitely regrowth going on!

----------


## wesleybelgium

i'm using also custom factors from anageninc.com

i have dont 3 hairtransplants
1x fut , and 2x fue (second is hairdoubling @ nigams )

i feel allready alot of bumps all over my head at 1,5 month after transplant , there is something going on here , sinds this happens more between 2 - 3 months mark , so the factors do speed up hairgrowth and hairgeneration ...
i have allready some grafts popping out the skin , but as far i can see it only a few....

from my experience the factors do speed up the healing and growthprocess...
intresting stuff...

keep you posted

wesley from belgium.

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## clandestine

Nice pics lilpauly.

&Thanks Wesley.

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## lilpauly



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## thinningTooSoon

Are you using the Derma Roller aswell?

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## lilpauly

yes i use a derma roller, i will re post pics

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## lilpauly



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## pat

Really considering getting this. I have some questions if some of you don't mind...

It's a growth stimulant, correct? And do I HAVE to dermaroll if I use this?

Also, if applying to my hairline & temples only, how long should the 30g solution last?

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## pat

Also i don't see growth factors on Kane's website? Unless I'm blind, could someone link me to it?

I only see it on the AnagenInc website. Will it be just as good from there?

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## hellouser

> Also i don't see growth factors on Kane's website? Unless I'm blind, could someone link me to it?
> 
> I only see it on the AnagenInc website. Will it be just as good from there?


 AnagenInc = Kane

Its a sister site, more or less. You'll be fine.

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## pat

> AnagenInc = Kane
> 
> Its a sister site, more or less. You'll be fine.


 
Good to know, thanks man

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## lilpauly

some more phots

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## pat

> some more phots


 
Could you or someone  *please* take a photo of the bottle that growth factors solution comes in from Kane/AnagenInc....? I'd really appreciate it

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## frankzukini

Thank you for posting this, lilpauly, I wish I would have seen your thread earlier. It was about time the AGA community requests growth factors with a vehicle that makes sense. I've ordered a jar and will update progress in this thread. Will be applying all over the scalp, without derma rolling (using RU).

PS : Just throwing my $0.02 here : chemical engineers, at least in North America, are not those involved in the synthesis nor the development of chemicals - this is the job of chemists. Saying "Kane's engineers are working on this [...]" isn't correct, AFAIK. Doesn't mean they can't have a B. Ing. degree either, but their actual title should be "chemist" (this comes from a dude who has done a major in chemistry and has started studying in engineering).

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## Dan26

Frank you must dermaroll with 0.5mm roller to use these GF's....The MW is very high. I'm using RU aswell, and if you are worried about systemic aborption then skip applying RU the same day you use the GF"s/...Im wounding with 1.5mm roller aswell and I apply GFs right after then RU the following day and no problems. Though I;'ve thought about skipping RU the day aftrer woudning and im sure it would be fine

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## Dan26

They come in a really nice glass jar type of thing, like an expensive womans cream would come in...i will try to post a picture later tonight

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## frankzukini

> Frank you must dermaroll with 0.5mm roller to use these GF's....The MW is very high.


 I understand that GF's alone have no chance to penetrate skin, but they do pretend that their encapsulation method/delivery system allows it. I just ordered a derma roller as well anyway... will give that a try. Thanks for the feedback !

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## lilpauly

> I understand that GF's alone have no chance to penetrate skin, but they do pretend that their encapsulation method/delivery system allows it. I just ordered a derma roller as well anyway... will give that a try. Thanks for the feedback !


 Correct the nano solution plays a big role , dr n used growth factors post surgery .

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## pat

> I understand that GF's alone have no chance to penetrate skin, but they do pretend that their encapsulation method/delivery system allows it. I just ordered a derma roller as well anyway... will give that a try. Thanks for the feedback !


 So you don't think the nano solution for GFs allow for a good enough penetration or no? Do you think derma-rolling is a MUST if using GFs? Or could something like emu oil help in the GFs getting absorbed?

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## lilpauly

> So you don't think the nano solution for GFs allow for a good enough penetration or no? Do you think derma-rolling is a MUST if using GFs? Or could something like emu oil help in the GFs getting absorbed?


 Dude the same growth factors that Kane had produced was in the Korean trials . They work , hoping in the next few weeks people start reporting results

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## pat

> Dude the same growth factors that Kane had produced was in the Korean trials . They work , hoping in the next few weeks people start reporting results


 did they dermaroll in the Korean trials for it to work? sorry I never read/saw those trials before

also, this might be a dumb question but growth factors is considered a growth stimulant, correct? compared to stuff like RU or CB which are mainly anti-androgens?

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## Dan26

> did they dermaroll in the Korean trials for it to work? sorry I never read/saw those trials before
> 
> also, this might be a dumb question but growth factors is considered a growth stimulant, correct? compared to stuff like RU or CB which are mainly anti-androgens?


 Yes to all that pat. (studies used dermaroller, in fact there are some separate papers on how dermarolling can effectively aid penetration for large MW substances)

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## pat

> Yes to all that pat. (studies used dermaroller, in fact there are some separate papers on how dermarolling can effectively aid penetration for large MW substances)


 Perfect, thanks for the clarification. Also whenever you have time I would really appreciate if I could see a picture of the glass jar you mentioned the GFs come in  :Smile:

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## clandestine

Dan how's your hair feel with the GF's; anything to note?

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## Dan26

Nothing to note unfortunately man...

 :Frown:

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## pat

> Nothing to note unfortunately man...


 may i ask what you're currently on? saw your pics/post on SAGA

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## Dan26

> may i ask what you're currently on? saw your pics/post on SAGA


 low dose fin, minox, RU (i ran out though), and GF's....i use GF's on only once side of hairline and minox/GF on the other side so i can compare..i need to wait a couple weeks and take more and better pictures and make an actual thread with detailed explanations.

If anything I do feel for the first time i am noticnig somethign and its on my left temple which are the pics i posted on saga

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## StayThick

> Correct the nano solution plays a big role , dr n used growth factors post surgery .


 LilPauly: can you answer the below questions for me man? I ordered the GF but have questions regarding application.

1) How many days a week are you applying and how much? Are you measuring?
2) Have you noticed regrowth from using the GF? Your temples always look the same to me and I know you're using other topicals. Have you noticed additional improvement upon using this?
3) Are you storing the GF's in the fridge/freezer after use?
4) Ar you applying the GF's after using a 1.5mm dermaroller? 

Your answers would be much appreciated.

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## lilpauly

> LilPauly: can you answer the below questions for me man? I ordered the GF but have questions regarding application.
> 
> 1) How many days a week are you applying and how much? Are you measuring?
> 2) Have you noticed regrowth from using the GF? Your temples always look the same to me and I know you're using other topicals. Have you noticed additional improvement upon using this?
> 3) Are you storing the GF's in the fridge/freezer after use?
> 4) Ar you applying the GF's after using a 1.5mm dermaroller? 
> 
> Your answers would be much appreciated.


 hi stay thick
1. i apply the growth factors at least 4x week and i dont measure
2. i lost alot of ground when i stopped treatments over the summer when i got sick. my regimen is at full strength and i believe my results are synergy
3. store the growth factors in the refrig
4. i apply the growth factors are i dermaroll.

i wish u success!

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## pat

> low dose fin, minox, RU (i ran out though), and GF's....i use GF's on only once side of hairline and minox/GF on the other side so i can compare..i need to wait a couple weeks and take more and better pictures and make an actual thread with detailed explanations.
> 
> If anything I do feel for the first time i am noticnig somethign and its on my left temple which are the pics i posted on saga


 Oh ok thanks. I wasn't sure if you were using minox & fin or not. I think I got you confused with another poster who tried CB or GF but didn't use fin or minox. I'm personally not using it just yet

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## pat

> hi stay thick
> 
> -


 Do you think I could still get results from Growth Factors without dermarolling? Perhaps could I use emu oil and Retin-A to increase absorption instead?

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## DesperateOne

> Do you think I could still get results from Growth Factors without dermarolling? Perhaps could I use emu oil and Retin-A to increase absorption instead?


 Emu oil is useless for absorption, maybe you can mix it with lipogaine.

Also, guys give this thread a rest, paul will keep on updating us as will the rest. It has been said countless times that we can't expect any results in a month, give it four at a minimum.

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