# Hair Transplants > Hair Transplant: Start Your Own Topic >  Jason Gardiner's Hair Transplant with Dr. Craig Ziering

## tbtadmin

IAHRS accepted member Dr. Craig Ziering discusses the hair transplant that he and his team performed on "Dancing On Ice" star Jason Gardiner.

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## bullitnut

I think the results looked great........... here is a link to a UK interview he did on a British Tv programme. Well done Jason for talking about Hairtransplants on National TV, hopefully it will get rid of some of the social stigma attached with these types of procedures. 

Well done Dr Zeiring..... Nice job!!!

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## thejack

Everything is right about this job apart from he paid $10 per graft for a strip procedure!

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## CVAZBAR

> Everything is right about this job apart from he paid $10 per graft for a strip procedure!


 I actually thought he looked good bald but I also understand he obviously preferred hair. The job was well done unfortunately it is too much money for a HT and the scar is included. I'm glad he had great results though. Yes, you can do something about it but at what cost? They can't even guarantee maximum results. ****en rats! Doc z is cool though.

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## Bakez

He is probably better looking bald, which sort of backs up my feelings in that I don't give a shit what I look like, the hair is just part of your identity which is why its so hard.

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## CVAZBAR

> He is probably better looking bald, which sort of backs up my feelings in that I don't give a shit what I look like, the hair is just part of your identity which is why its so hard.


 If I was him, I wouldn't even get a HT. The guy looked good bald. I would have just waited for something new to come out that would not involve scars. You can buy a ****en car with that money ha.

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## Spex

BIG kudos to him for coming out - well done! In my opinion he is wearing a great deal of concealer. No one can get full coverage from 3500 session in just 8 months. Shame they didn't disclose the actual result and the fact he was wearing concealers in my opinion. Many will assume thats a legit result when concealers are involved, in my opinion.

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## clee984

I'd be interested to know how much concealer he's wearing. He looks good though, best of luck to him.

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## Winston

> I'd be interested to know how much concealer he's wearing. He looks good though, best of luck to him.


 Concealer or no consealer he looks really good. He seems very happy and thats whats important.

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## bullitnut

concealor or no concealor the result looks great and Jason deserves loads of credit for talking about his procedure on TV, hes a damn site braver than me. Well done mr Gardiner, you have my respect!!

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## Jotronic

The more I think about this the more irritated I get. Don't get me wrong, I think the result looks quite good and more importantly Jason deserves credit for coming out so publicly like this. It can only shed a more positive light on this field when celebrities like Jason come out and discuss it openly from beginning to end. I wish more celebrities would come forward.

However, make no mistake, this was a planned PR opportunity from the start and while it is actually a good thing in general the overall final presentation is misleading and in fact dangerous. 

Jason is wearing tons of concealer in the "This Morning" interview. I agree 100% with Spex that there is no way, none, nada, zilch, that 3501 grafts will give a NW6 this much coverage much less density. The danger in presenting this "remarkable" result is that anyone that sees this, and trust me, there are a lot of people that have seen this, will think that if they have aggressive hair loss then 3500 grafts should take care of them in one go. 

The sad reality is that as most experienced members and patients know, closer to double this amount will give a NW6 anything resembling acceptable coverage but even 7000 grafts will not give this kind of density (mainly the crown) as it appears in the video that the density is near native (100%).

This is not a slam against Jason Gardiner. Again, I think it was very commendable for him to come forward. I could see it in his eyes that he was very forthcoming about how his hair loss affected him and how the hat he has worn over the 8 months of recovery became a psychological crutch. I've been there myself so I know how it feels and to be honest, I don't think he realizes the misrepresentation that he is providing by using concealer in an interview solely about his new hair. Regardless of whether or not HE realizes it, others do and the presentation of his hair transplant result as being ONLY from a surgical treatment will lead other uninformed television viewers to think that they too can get 3500 grafts on their NW6 hair loss patterned heads and get full density and full coverage.

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## Winston

> The more I think about this the more irritated I get. Don't get me wrong, I think the result looks quite good and more importantly Jason deserves credit for coming out so publicly like this. It can only shed a more positive light on this field when celebrities like Jason come out and discuss it openly from beginning to end. I wish more celebrities would come forward.
> 
> However, make no mistake, this was a planned PR opportunity from the start and while it is actually a good thing in general the overall final presentation is misleading and in fact dangerous. 
> 
> Jason is wearing tons of concealer in the "This Morning" interview. I agree 100% with Spex that there is no way, none, nada, zilch, that 3501 grafts will give a NW6 this much coverage much less density. The danger in presenting this "remarkable" result is that anyone that sees this, and trust me, there are a lot of people that have seen this, will think that if they have aggressive hair loss then 3500 grafts should take care of them in one go. 
> 
> The sad reality is that as most experienced members and patients know, closer to double this amount will give a NW6 anything resembling acceptable coverage but even 7000 grafts will not give this kind of density (mainly the crown) as it appears in the video that the density is near native (100%).
> 
> This is not a slam against Jason Gardiner. Again, I think it was very commendable for him to come forward. I could see it in his eyes that he was very forthcoming about how his hair loss affected him and how the hat he has worn over the 8 months of recovery became a psychological crutch. I've been there myself so I know how it feels and to be honest, I don't think he realizes the misrepresentation that he is providing by using concealer in an interview solely about his new hair. Regardless of whether or not HE realizes it, others do and the presentation of his hair transplant result as being ONLY from a surgical treatment will lead other uninformed television viewers to think that they too can get 3500 grafts on their NW6 hair loss patterned heads and get full density and full coverage.


 If this was a planned PR opportunity from the start then kudos to Dr. Ziering! I think its fantastic for all of us who are going through this, as it only brings light to a subject that has been in the shadows too long. Im sure Jason wears consealer because it makes him feel better. Yes it is a little misleading if this is not explained to the pubic, but the bottom line is that he is happy. I dont think he would have come out publically if he wasnt absolutely thrilled with his results. I do see Jotronic and Spexs point, but I think its irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things. I guess I could be wrong, but I think this is a good thing.

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## Jotronic

I don't mean to sound like a doom and gloom spreader. Far from it but I've busted my ass (as have Spex, Spencer and some others) for years trying to educate patients about what is realistic with hair restoration. Then comes Jason Gardiner and his hair transplant of only 3501 grafts making the million or so people that watched the show think that the cure for aggressive hair loss is here.

I'll tell you one thing, if I were to ever show a result from Hasson & Wong, of myself or any other patient, with even a hint of Toppik or some other concealer you guys would have my hide up on a wall for trying to pass it off as a natural result. Think about it.

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## CVAZBAR

Do concealers make that much of a difference? How do they apply it? On scalp or hair? You keep saying aggressive hair loss, do you mean those people are not good candidates for HT?

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## Winston

> I don't mean to sound like a doom and gloom spreader. Far from it but I've busted my ass (as have Spex, Spencer and some others) for years trying to educate patients about what is realistic with hair restoration. Then comes Jason Gardiner and his hair transplant of only 3501 grafts making the million or so people that watched the show think that the cure for aggressive hair loss is here.
> 
> I'll tell you one thing, if I were to ever show a result from Hasson & Wong, of myself or any other patient, with even a hint of Toppik or some other concealer you guys would have my hide up on a wall for trying to pass it off as a natural result. Think about it.


 I think that you and Spex and some of the others  who work for the top clinics are held to a higher standard when you show results on the forum and I think that you should be. This is a celebrity on television. He doesn't have to play by the same rules and probably does not even understand that he is being misleading in any way.  I think he should be commended not criticized for coming out about his hair transplant, but I do understand your points and they are valid.

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## mg39

> I don't mean to sound like a doom and gloom spreader. Far from it but I've busted my ass (as have Spex, Spencer and some others) for years trying to educate patients about what is realistic with hair restoration. Then comes Jason Gardiner and his hair transplant of only 3501 grafts making the million or so people that watched the show think that the cure for aggressive hair loss is here.
> 
> I'll tell you one thing, if I were to ever show a result from Hasson & Wong, of myself or any other patient, with even a hint of Toppik or some other concealer you guys would have my hide up on a wall for trying to pass it off as a natural result. Think about it.


 Excellent response Jotronic, and I totally agree with you.  Six months ago I would have totally believed that these results were attainable and the 3500 grafts that Jason Gardiner received would have simply been an arbitrary number to me.  Having researched HT procedures, and taken in the information that is available on this forum, I know that is simply not the case.  Unfortunately, when presented with a desperate situation like MPB, people tend to act too quickly without doing the proper research and there are doctors out there that will prey upon their insecurities and desperation.  I was in a similar situation just 6 months ago, and thankfully found this site where I could research the process and just as importantly the work of physicians performing hair transplants.  This site is riddled with people who have been duped into procedures without being given any guidance on "realistic" outcomes, and unfortunately a great number are going to see Jason's results and think all their problems will be solved at once, only to be disappointed with the outcome.

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## genius130

They said that was 3501 grafts, that looks like a lot more.  Can 3500 grafts make that much of a different for a guy who was basically a norwood 6?

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## CVAZBAR

So he still getting a 2nd procedure? Does this mean that he is paying for a Mercedes now? 70gs?

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## Spex

Hi Dr Ziering, 

I appreciate your reply and please do not take mine or Jotronics posts as an attack, its more an observation and stating the obvious really based on experience and daily interaction with actual patients who expectations  require constant grounding. As i stated previously, kudos to Jason for coming out. No mean feat - takes courage and balls!  :Cool: 

Seeing some "cold light of day" pictures from you will help compare and also please upload immediate post op pics too to see coverage and placement that will help -  however I strongly believe concealers were worn on the TV interview. If not then where is a another surgery going to be placed..? :EEK!:  Why the need? There appears to be no room judging by the sheer coverage and density achieved from round one of only 3500. :Wink: 

The general point i was making and Joe backed me up on here is that at only 8 months it's highly unlikely that density and coverage from only 3500 grafts can be achieved and seems interesting Jason is familiar with concealers such as Toppik and chose to use on "Dancing on Ice" yet disclosed to you he had nothing "on" on "This morning" the TV interview,  even though his appearance displayed classic signs ie. full thick coverage.

 I have also seen 1000's of ht's in person had 8 surgeries myself and to this day never seen such overwhelming density and coverage from just 3500 grafts. I think Jason was telling you a porky pie (lie) if he said he had no concealer on as you have acknowledged. 

The millions viewing the show have now been lead to believe that thats what can be achieved from a HT alone in one session from 3500 grafts from your clinic, which is in my opinion (and Joe's) not the case. If you guys had disclosed the concealer and the need for Jason to embark on a second surgery to the public it would have been a great informative piece.

 I appreciate the PR campaign to get the awareness up but from a mentors perspective ( myself and Jotronic ) who deal with patients daily its a shame the real actual life results weren't disclosed - hopefully you can display some pictures of what his hair actually looks like via pictures. 

This is only my opinion.

Regards
Spex

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## Spex

Doc, 

I am based in the UK - A great way for me and others to be proven wrong and come back on here publicly with an apology is if you can line me up a 1:1 meeting with Jason on his terms (time and location.) I would very much like to view his results even for 1 minute (and meet him as i really like him) in person and report back here and on other forums where speculation resides. The results appear remarkable and i would love to be given the opportunity to see them up close and personal and report back - i hope i can be given the opportunity.  :Cool: 

Best 
Spex

email :support@spexhair.com

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## Jotronic

Dr. Ziering,

What Spex said was spot on and I appreciate his efforts to clarify his (our) position on this. I too am not attacking because as I have said numerous times Jason looks quite good now and his celebrity status, along with his result, can only help give the HT field the proper exposure it deserves. I could genuinely see his sincerity in his eyes when he was describing what is was like to lose that hat that had been a psychological crutch for the past eight months.

I also have had multiple surgeries, two of which were pluggy 90's tech and four subsequent procedures to correct the old work and to satisfy my hair greed on my NW6 + noggin. To date I have almost three times the amount of transplanted hair as Jason does so I have a pretty good handle on what can be achieved with 3500 grafts.

However I am quite confident that Jason was not being as forthcoming with you/us as he could have been regarding his appearance on "This Morning". I will also like to challenge Jason to a gentlemen's wager. If he can prove publicly that his hair is as full as it was during his initial unveiling without the use of hair concealers then I'll give 1000.00 to the charity of his choice. In exchange he will give 1000.00 to the charity of my choice if it is revealed that his hair is not as full without the use of concealers. 

Again, I think Jason's experience is good for the industry (and obviously for him) and I truly wish more celebs would come forth with supporting comments about their own hair restoration experiences. In the meantime we should ultimately embrace the fact that we have taken this small step forward with the open support of someone like Jason Gardiner. In the end we all owe Jason some gratitude. I know I do.

Btw, I will be in London as well in early May so if Jason wants to take me up on my friendly challenge we can get Spex involved too :Smile:

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## PayDay

Spex and Jotronic, I am a fan of the both of you and Ive always been impressed with your knowledge on the forum and have been motivated by seeing your great hair transplants, but  this is getting ridiculous! To me it sounds like nothing more then sour grapes. Everyone knows that you both work for doctors who go to the UK to sell hair transplants. You yourselves are consultants in the UK. Calling a celebrity out to prove something to, with all due respect, two hair transplant salesman, is a little over the top dont you think? Why would he meet with two perfect strangers to prove anything? It just seems comical. While you're at it why not see if you can meet up with Lindsay Loahan to prove if her boobs are real or not. Rumor has it that theyre fake. :Smile: LOL

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## Spex

In respect to this its far from sour grapes. I for one comment and give kudos all over the place to all docs i feel warrant it, run a search.

 However you are missing the point Payday. 

This result revealed on the TV show,  seen by millions portrays this result in a way that is potentially not actually real yet thickened up significantly by means on concealers. If concealers are being used surely they need to be mentioned. If a clinic posted pictures of a patient similar covered in concealer to enhance the result would that not be seen as false representation?


See the video of Jason on the interview. See the density of his hair and how great it appears. Its truly WOW! Any experienced vet knows that 3500 grafts can not give FULL coverage at maximum density as it appears. NO mention of concealers were implied or discussed so people are lead to believe that thats what you can achieve, when in fact it isnt. If concealers had been mentioned , no issue. But they were not.

Hopefully you see the point. We are stating the obvious and trying to help educate -  Throwing back at us we are HT salesman is cheap and unfounded. I think Joe and i have proven over the years to be far from that. I do not need to meet him now as i have seen these pictures and its pretty clear concealers were utilised on TV.

See the pics below attached of Jason from the doc site : 

You can see that the coverage may well be there , however there is NO top shot, just a slight tilt, so hard to tell but we can see its nowhere near as thick as when he was on TV and thats the point. Therefore if concealers were used should it not be disclosed or should we now expect to see clinics using concealers also to increase and enhance the apperance of an after result without mentioning it?



Regards
Spex

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## blowmeup

> Spex and Jotronic, I am a fan of the both of you and Ive always been impressed with your knowledge on the forum and have been motivated by seeing your great hair transplants, but  this is getting ridiculous! To me it sounds like nothing more then sour grapes. Everyone knows that you both work for doctors who go to the UK to sell hair transplants. You yourselves are consultants in the UK. Calling a celebrity out to prove something to, with all due respect, two hair transplant salesman, is a little over the top dont you think? Why would he meet with two perfect strangers to prove anything? It just seems comical. While you're at it why not see if you can meet up with Lindsay Loahan to prove if her boobs are real or not. Rumor has it that theyre fake.LOL


 Very true and VERY funny payday lol I can see it now, Spex and Jotronic meet with Mr. Gardiner in the back room of a pub, sit him in a chair with two bright lights and start interrogating him all the while taking HD video. Ha, ha,ha :Smile: 

Personally I have much respect for this guy and I also appreciate that Doc Z takes time out of his busy day to answer our questions. Most doctors just have their staff come on here. He really seems to care.

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## UK_

That is a great result, I had no idea Dr Ziering was behind Jason's whole media hair loss story lol..  Looks great!

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## Spex

Spin this in whichever direction you want guys. It is what it is.  :Smile:  

For the record - We were making newbies and others aware that if they are high NW scales and go for full coverage with 3500 grafts then their result will fall short of Jasons results displayed on TV. Thats the fact of the matter. 

I will leave it here. Jasons result is GREAT, no disputing it. Dr Z has done a great job. All we wanted was clarification to help others,  however we are now the enemy here. Its no skin off our noses however some people might well be disappointed who believe 3500 grafts is going to achieve what is being portrayed here from HT's alone , thats all. :Cool: 



Peace out.
Spex

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## PayDay

I do get it Spex, and maybe I was a little harsh by calling you a salesman, but essentially thats what you do for Dr. Feller right? Why try to sugar coat it? There is nothing wrong with being a salesman especially for a doctor like Dr. Feller who is great. For the record I do respect both you an Jotronic, but your posts seemed  unprofessional and petty from what I am used to seeing from you and it does come across as sour grapes. Just my opinion, no disrespect intended.

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## Jotronic

I'm not sure how this could be construed as "sour grapes". I think I've mentioned several times that this is a good result. I mean, think about this for a moment. As Spex said, if we were to present a result that had concealer mixed in we'd be strung up and lynched. That is a fact. For Jason, we called him out for the concealer, not the result and the image that Spex has linked to just proves our point. Kudos to the doctor for having the true images on his site. It just shows that it is still a good result even without concealer.

 And my "bet" was not made with any real expectation of it being met. I mean come on, I'm not so vain to think that anyone would actually take it very seriously. So, with that said, I consider this case closed. Well done by the doc, good on Jason Gardiner for discussing his case and good on all of you for participating in this discussion. It has certainly been interesting.

And with regards to Lindsay Lohan; brother, there is no such thing as fake boobs. Real skin equals real boobs :Smile:  BOOYAH!!

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## UK_

> Spin this in whichever direction you want guys. It is what it is.  
> 
> For the record - We were making newbies and others aware that if they are high NW scales and go for full coverage with 3500 grafts then their result will fall short of Jasons results displayed on TV. Thats the fact of the matter. 
> 
> I will leave it here. Jasons result is GREAT, no disputing it. Dr Z has done a great job. All we wanted was clarification to help others,  however we are now the enemy here. 
> 
> All the very best
> Spex


 Exactly, thats why if you need a HT, you go to Dr Ziering, like he said, he has an artistic approach - doesnt just bung hair from one region to another, credit to the guy, he did a fantastic job.

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## CVAZBAR

I think everyone here has a point. I mean it's true what spex says and the pics prove his hair did not look like that. So I understand their argument. I also can't say I can blame doc Z for anything, since he said he explained everything just like he did hear. He did a great job and can't really say anything more.

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## blowmeup

I think its good that people in the UK have another good doc to go to now. I think the only other one in the IAHRS is Farjo. One question, why did he have to fly to California if Doc Z in also in the UK?

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## clee984

I think one thing we can all agree on, concealor or no, Dr Z has done a fantastic job with Mr Gardiner. And that Dr Z is willing to come onto this forum and answer questions and criticisms (polite and valid though they are) speaks volumes for his integrity as a doctor, imo.  

Also, has anyone considered that perhaps the make-up people from the 'This morning' tv show applied concealor for the interview, not Mr Gardiner?

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## bhoys

I agree it is very clean and top quality work carried out by Dr Ziering and that he got the absolute maximum in terms of results from the grafts he had at his disposal. However I cannot for one second believe that Jason Gardiner is not using a significant and I do mean significant amount of concealer. It is not sour grapes in my eyes from either joe or spex and I dont care who they work for or promote. If that is the result with just 3500 grafts on a norwood 6 then that is a cure right there. C'mon guys we all want this to be a typical result for all patients but it so clearly is not the case. The Dr said Jason had excellent hair characteristics, well all i can say is that they must be the best characteristics in the history of human kind. This in my opinion is being portrayed as a normal result and I believe that to be grossly misleading.

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## gillenator

Dr. Craig Ziering is a former "long term" HT doctor with Medical Hair Restoration, which was officially acquired by Bosley last year.  People keep asking me what happened to MHR.  I am shocked that more folks are not aware that the former two hair mills in this country are now one huge, and I do mean HUGE chain.  Buyer Beware!

Craig Ziering, D.O. was the former Medical Director of MHR for Matt Leavitt.  Ziering worked in large cities such as Chicago and most recently in Manhattan, NY before he left MHR and headed for the coast.

$10.00 per strip graft?!  You have to be kidding.  That's even more than straight FUE or BH!  Old habits die hard?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

There are so many independent veteran HT docs, and especially in this community of IAHRS, who do absolutely awesome work at half that cost.

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## blowmeup

> Dr. Craig Ziering is a former "long term" HT doctor with Medical Hair Restoration, which was officially acquired by Bosley last year.  People keep asking me what happened to MHR.  I am shocked that more folks are not aware that the former two hair mills in this country are now one huge, and I do mean HUGE chain.  Buyer Beware!
> 
> Craig Ziering, D.O. was the former Medical Director of MHR for Matt Leavitt.  Ziering worked in large cities such as Chicago and most recently in Manhattan, NY before he left MHR and headed for the coast.
> 
> $10.00 per strip graft?!  You have to be kidding.  That's even more than straight FUE or BH!  Old habits die hard? 
> 
> There are so many independent veteran HT docs, and especially in this community of IAHRS, who do absolutely awesome work at half that cost.


 I  have read on the net that Dr. William Rassman from baldingblog was the medical director for Bosley before he opened his own business? Does that make him a bad doctor?   What does any of this have to do with this thread? Doc Z said that he charges the same rates as all of the doctors  that Ive contacted in the IAHRS, about $5 per graft. Isn't that the norm?

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## gillenator

Go back and watch the program again.  The price quote was $35,000 for 3500 grafts.  You do the math.

And for the record, I never said he was a bad doctor.  I consider any doctors entire history in the industry good or bad.  I put more weight on that than one single example of his/her work.

And it's very interesting that you use Dr. Rassman in an example.

I am only stating the facts as they are.

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## blowmeup

According to Doc Z he charges the same as other doctors. This is what Doc Z  wrote in this thread.

I Would like to clarify a few things if I may ...
1. Price: Jason paid 35,000 USD which is my charge for maximum harvest and closing the office down to all other patients and consults.
I typically do 2 cases per day at 5-7 USD per graft.

I thought  Dr. Rassman was a very highly regarded as a hair transplant doctor and he was the medical director for Bosley at one time right? . Why would you say it was interesting to use Dr. Rassman as an example? Isnt he good?

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## gillenator

I don't think Dr. Rassman was the director for Bosley, Lee Bosley, the founding doc was.  Rassman was in practice with Bob Bernstein out of NYC for many years and he was affiliated with another large national franchise but right off hand, I forget the name of it.  It had a horrible reputation like MHR.

It sounds like Jason paid an exorbant fee since he was the sole patient of the day and had to cover the clinic's missing revenue?!  What the doctor calls "his maximum charge for maximum harvest for the day?!"  That appears very unfair to me.

The video quoted $35,000.00 at $10.00 per graft.  The doc later brought down his price quote once patients started questioning the exorbant price in this thread.

Typical MHR practice IMHO.

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## Don'tDoIt

Dr. Ziering performed my HT in the late 1990's.  He promised me the moon but did not deliver.  I was naive.

Dr. Ziering's job gave me a pluggy looking hairline made of minigrafts.  He left me with a wide strip scar across the back of my head.  He said that no one would ever notice my strip scar.  What a joke.  You can see this thing from a mile away.  You can guess my opinion of Dr. Ziering before I even encountered this thread.

I agree with all the above commenters that Jason Gardiner had a ton of concealer on his head during that program.  And Dr. Ziering knows it.  Yet he still feigns ignorance.  That tells you something right there.

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## gillenator

[QUOTE=Don'tDoIt;25750]Dr. Ziering performed my HT in the late 1990's.  He promised me the moon but did not deliver.  I was naive.

Dr. Ziering's job gave me a pluggy looking hairline made of minigrafts.  He left me with a wide strip scar across the back of my head.  He said that no one would ever notice my strip scar.  What a joke.  You can see this thing from a mile away.  You can guess my opinion of Dr. Ziering before I even encountered this thread.

I agree with all the above commenters that Jason Gardiner had a ton of concealer on his head during that program.  And Dr. Ziering knows it.  Yet he still feigns ignorance.  That tells you something right there.[/QUOTE



Don'tDoIt,

Thank you for your honesty and bravery in coming forth.  Believe me, you're not alone.  You must have been one of Ziering's Chicago patients?

I agree with you concerning the concealers and how deceptive they are in pics.  AND OF COURSE EVERYBODY IN THE OFFICE KNEW ABOUT IT!!!

Again I say, BUYER BEWARE!

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## bhoys

I was never one of the people who were overcome with hysteria about Histogen but I was quietly optimistic, I currently no longer feel very optimistic.

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## Spex

Interesting info Gill - i was not aware of that.




> I will post some clinical pictures(within the next 24 hours ) on that site at about 8 months post op that are styled to expose the thin areas .


 Dr Z, 

Do you still intend to post true life pictures exposing the thin areas? be good to still see them to compare.

Regards
Spex

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## gillenator

Spex,

Are you referring to Dr. Ziering's history with Medical Hair Restoration?  When Dr. Matt Leavitt founded MHR, I believe it was started in Chicago and Ziering was one of the founding docs in the beginning years.  He was with MHR for quite some time and IMHO, had a major influence in how the company was run in day-to-day operations.

Not very many people are aware of this.

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## 67mph

WOH!

took me a while, but i got there in the end, i got to the end of the thread and here i am...

some interesting battles happening between posters, all makes for very interesting reading.

Many valid points and some (i feel) misplaced opinions, but anyway, to keep it light, first and last point to be raised by me and that's the respect i have for a person like Jason Gardnier, whatever the result (quite good), him using concealar (quite a bit), him not mentioning the concealer (perhaps should have), the price he paid (do your research guys), who with (...do your research guys!) the fact this guy came forward and told his story to us all, then that warrants everyones respect and i have no doubt helps hairloss sufferers the world over!

regards, and hey ...can't wait for the next 'celeb' to come out, bring on the thread,
57mph

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## CVAZBAR

> I was never one of the people who were overcome with hysteria about Histogen but I was quietly optimistic, I currently no longer feel very optimistic.


 ****! Histogen was the first thing that came to my mind as well. Now I don't know what to think. This is a shitty industry. Hopefully Doc Z is not playing us and I'm sure Spencer would probably do something about this also. Hopefully he has been honest with his information and if he is not, KARMA is a bitch.

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## Spex

Yes Gill, I was not aware of his association with MHR. He is now the director of The Hospital Group in the UK, which i was not aware of either... 

Which if anyone runs a search against that particular place within the forum community they will see the patient feedback. Its the Uk's equivalent to MHR and Bosley IN MY OPINION. It is what it is.

Shame also we have not had any further updates on pictures from Dr Z as assured we would do.

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## UK_

> Yes Gill, I was not aware of his association with MHR. He is now the director of The Hospital Group in the UK, which i was not aware of either... 
> 
> Which if anyone runs a search against that particular place within the forum community they will see the patient feedback. Its the Uk's equivalent to MHR and Bosley IN MY OPINION. It is what it is.
> 
> Shame also we have not had any further updates on pictures from Dr Z as assured we would do.


 The hospital group do all sorts of plastic surgery procedures, if I was to go for a HT i'd go to a specialist, Dr Ziering would be on my list of surgeons for sure, the thing is, surgery and HT's are highly complicated and the outcomes can vary.  Nobody, not you, me or anyone on this planet can claim to have a 99% success rate with transplants, and people always focus on the 'bad HT's' whilst neglecting the hundreds of positive cases produced.

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## UK_

> ****! Histogen was the first thing that came to my mind as well. Now I don't know what to think. This is a shitty industry. Hopefully Doc Z is not playing us and I'm sure Spencer would probably do something about this also. Hopefully he has been honest with his information and if he is not, KARMA is a bitch.


 Why?  They havn't even started trials yet, the trials start at the end of May so the earliest update will be toward the beginning of september.

And compared to the likes of Follica, Histogen have been a God-send in terms of how much information they share with the hair loss community.

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## UK_

Does anyone have any knowledge on the effect of damage to the scalp and the activation of WNT proteins in the healing process and how this may lead to the prevention/regeneration of hair follicles?

Does this work?

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## Don'tDoIt

[/QUOTE]

Don'tDoIt,

Thank you for your honesty and bravery in coming forth.  Believe me, you're not alone.  You must have been one of Ziering's Chicago patients?
[/QUOTE]

In fact, yes, I was one of Dr. Ziering's patients in Chicago.  Ziering was with MHR at that time.  Boy, you sure know the history of this industry!

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## CVAZBAR

> Why?  They havn't even started trials yet, the trials start at the end of May so the earliest update will be toward the beginning of september.
> 
> And compared to the likes of Follica, Histogen have been a God-send in terms of how much information they share with the hair loss community.


 No doubt but when you hear shit like this, it's hard not to think the other way. I mean i feel like you when it comes to Histogen but all this is very strange. Doc Z seems very sincere but all this doesn;t make him look good at all. Who can you trust?

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## SpencerKobren

The honest and free exchange of patient experiences and ideas are the cornerstone of any legitimate online community.  As we all know, hair loss is an overwhelmingly emotional issue, and those who participate in various discussions on our forum can, at times, become extremely passionate about their beliefs, whether these beliefs are based on fact or hearsay.

As someone who has a unique perspective of the true history and the behind the scenes complexity of this field, I think its important that I state the facts when it comes to some of the misleading statements and disappointing innuendo that are being presented in this thread. 

What readers need to understand is that the vast majority of todays most revered hair transplant surgeons would have never made the grade, so to speak, back in the late 1990s. In fact, only a handful of todays online heroes were even considered for inclusion in the first edition of my book, _The Bald Truth._

When I was writing the manuscript for _The Bald Truth_ back in 1996-97, the general complexion of the hair transplant field was pretty grim. Most honest experts admit that the late 1990s, was for the most part, still the dark ages of the industry. 

In total, only eleven hair transplant surgeons (out of about one thousand practicing in North America at the time) were accepted for inclusion in the first published recommended list of hair transplant physicians, and for the record, there was no fee required for the accepted listing.

While the field as a whole despised the notion that a very public and clear distinction was being made between the skilled and ethical surgeons and all the rest, the more forward thinking doctors viewed this as an opportunity to evolve the industry standard and to meet, and to even exceed the bar set by the true leaders of the profession.

As the first person to publically expose the hair transplant industry, and to go head-to-head (at my own professional and financial risk) with the large chain clinics, I have gained intimate knowledge of whose who, when it comes to the good, the bad and the ugly in this field. 

Its certainly no secret that Dr. Ziering cut his teeth in the old school world of the large chain hair transplant clinic, but very few in the know can deny that Dr. Craig Ziering has proven himself to be one of the good guys in this field. 

Dr. Ziering  has been in private practice for about a decade and currently employs state of the art follicular unit hair transplantation. He has a full-time staff of well trained technicians, and was personally recommended for inclusion into the IAHRS by several accepted members, who include two of the most respected and revered hair transplant surgeons in the world, Dr. Ron Shapiro, and Dr. Paul J. McAndrews.

I think our user Blowmeup made a great point when he referenced Dr. Bill Rassmans association with Bosley Medical. While Dr. Rassman wasnt their medical director as Blowmeup mistakenly posted, he was in fact the President of Bosley from 1988-1990, and according to Dr. Rassmans CV, his role was to "Structure controlled growth for multi-million dollar surgical business," it also states he was "Responsible for national marketing and advertising."

When I was conducting my initial interviews for my book, many of Dr. Rassman's peers expressed their reservations about him based on his past affiliation with Bosley, and what some considered his over zealous promotion of a flawed surgical technique, which interestingly enough is today s gold standard - follicular unit transplantation.

Could you imagine how irresponsible it would have been if I chose not to write about Bill Rasman and his relentless pursuit to evolve this field based on the word of a few jealous, ill-informed, old guard surgeons? The result would have been profound and ultimately it is likely that the industry would have never developed into what it is today.

The work of Bobby Limmer, Bill Rassman and Bob Bernstein is what spawned my drive to spread the word to the masses that there was a significantly better surgical option available than what the large chain clinics, and most independents were offering at the time. The publication of _The Bald Truth_ has been referenced as the single most important catalyst for positive change in this field, and it is my firm belief that I could not have effected such powerful change if I chose to ignore Bill Rassmans role as a pioneer based on his past relationship with Bosley Medical and the grumblings of his many detractors.

The bottom line is that I have thoroughly researched Dr. Ziering and the quality of his current work. He has countless happy patients who believe that their lives have been greatly improved by Dr. Ziering and his staff. Those in the field who endorse his recommendation are some of the most respected, skilled and ethical surgeons that this profession has to offer. 

Its also important to note that even the most respected online heroes of this field have unhappy patients. Cosmetic surgery is not an exact science and patients have to be aware of the entire scope and possible pitfalls associated with any procedure they elect to have in an effort to improve their appearance.

I hope this clears up some of the inaccuracies, hearsay and disappointing negative innuendo that were presented in some of the postings in this thread.

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## Jotronic

Damn. This thread is done. Nuff said.

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## blowmeup

I knew Rassman worked for Bosley, but I had no idea he was the President of the company. I guess Gillenator doesnt know everything huh? I give you so much credit Spencer for everything that you have accomplished and for the classy way you always handle yourself.

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## Spex

Indeed Joe. Thanks Spencer for your detailed reply and clarification. Dr Ziering is clearly performing solid work and i hope more of it filters onto the forums from present and new patients.

Regards
Spex

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## PayDay

> I knew Rassman worked for Bosley, but I had no idea he was the President of the company. I guess Gillenator doesnt know everything huh? I give you so much credit Spencer for everything that you have accomplished and for the classy way you always handle yourself.


 Great post Spencer. blowmeup is right, you're are all class! You read so much bullshit on all of the forums from people who make it out that they are experts, its always good to hear the real history and behind the scenes stuff. I bet 99.9% of the people out there had no idea that Rassman was the president of Bosley. that was a real shocker! Much respect my friend,  you know Ive been following you for years and you always just tell it like it is. By the way, I tried to tune into your radio show on Sunday and I couldnt get it, will you be on this week? You know it my weekly therapy :Smile:

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## gillenator

Don'tDoIt,

Thank you for your honesty and bravery in coming forth.  Believe me, you're not alone.  You must have been one of Ziering's Chicago patients?
[/QUOTE]

In fact, yes, I was one of Dr. Ziering's patients in Chicago.  Ziering was with MHR at that time.  Boy, you sure know the history of this industry![/QUOTE]

Don'tDoIt,

Listen my friend.  I pretty much know the type of work that was done back then by all types of HT doctors so I have a good idea of what you went through.  MHR was in their infancy back then.

I truly hope you have had some success in getting some corrective revisions to your situation because the field has come such a long way.  There are now far more options that did not exist back then.  And at present day, there are some very honest, hard working, passionate physicians who are producing some amazing transformations.  I see so many examples across the board and the field continues to improve.  That's from a technological point of view, along with skills and instrumentation (reduced trauma).

Human character however has not changed.  We all know that.  And it's so important to distinguish the two (skill and ethics) because both can and will affect the outcome of the care received.  The doctor can be extremely skilled and confident yet I still hear patients being taken advantage of financially or patients who OBVIOUSLY are not ideal candidates for surgical hair restoration yet are being "sold" and pressured into surgery.   Or guys who are not responding favorably to hairloss meds, are continuing to lose hair and have advanced classes of hairloss in their family histories, are way too young, etc still being sold, "because they can afford it".

That's the fatal mistake they make from the beginning is telling the clinic that they have enough money to spend.  I still see this happen WAY too much.  Our emotions must be dealt with BEFORE we go to the consultation.  Resolve must be based on reality, prudent consideration within one's limitations, and planning over one's lifetime, not how much one has in the bank.

I am sure you are well aware of all of this now that we have fast-forwarded to 2011.  I wish you the best in the future and thank goodness we have the internet now to do our research!  Take care....

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## gillenator

> I knew Rassman worked for Bosley, but I had no idea he was the President of the company. I guess Gillenator doesnt know everything huh? I give you so much credit Spencer for everything that you have accomplished and for the classy way you always handle yourself.


 
Dude,

Yes, you're absolutely correct, I do not know everything and I'll be the first to state it! :Wink:

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## zo1279

Spex...you hit it right on the head (no pun intended lol).  He DEF has a concealer...as there is NO WAY to cover an entire balding head with 3,500 FU's.  However, with that said, even with the concealers, he looks amazing...what a dramatic difference hair makes.  I also think though that he looked really good as a bald man...either you have the "bald look" or you don't...and he def had that good bald look...I would look like i have 2 weeks left to live if i had to shave my head!  If I was him i would have just left it...but again, you can see the power of wanting hair especially in this situation in that he was fine without it and I'm certain he did well with the ladies...but he still wanted hair.  Good for him as he would have been a winner either way!

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## clee984

> I'm certain he did well with the ladies...


 I'm fairly certain that he didn't.

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## DAVE52

> I'm fairly certain that he didn't.


 lol....hair or no hair , he had no interest in the opposite sex. .......lol

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## hair leaving

I understand that Dr. Ziering may have had good transplants and bad ones. My question is where are the pics of the results since they results are so great?
If i had painted a masterpiece and everyone wanted to see my paintbrush I would have it framed for everyone to see. The fact that the Dr. replied to people on the site, not to fully back up his words (or pics) are allowing us to believe these results are not real. I do applaud Spencer for saying he did his background check on this guy because that was going to be my next question. If he is on here posting fake results then he shouldn't be allowed to be a member. Anyway my conclusion is no further pics = fake results until otherwise proven

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## 67mph

Jason G is back on our (UK) screens tonight at 6.15, on Dancing on Ice.

I'm tuning in, after 2 HTs and plenty of tele concealer i'm going to predict it looks outstanding.

Tune in if you can!

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