# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments >  There are no hairloss treatments.

## yeahyeahyeah

We are all wasting our time. There are no viable treatments.

Propecia - your penis can get ****ed

Minoxidil - In many cases not effective.

The others are just shit.

Yesterday, I as out, a friend pointed out that my hair was growing in a triangle, then remarks, "oh you probably have lost a bit of hair at the temples" and then points at it.

I felt SHIT

**** this hairloss SHIT

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## Orca

I know how you feel man.
My mate pointed out my temple hair loss and it made me feel a bit shit too. At the end of the day though, that's all it is. I'm happy enough being a norwood 2, and just hope propecia maintains what I have. Yeah I can't pull off every hairstyle, and my hair looks silly when it's wet, but you gotta roll with the punches. 
It does make it harder sometimes when it seems that every young person around me still has all their temple hair, but what can you do

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## yeahyeahyeah

How long have you been on propecia? Is it working?

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## UK_

> How long have you been on propecia? Is it working?


 I wouldnt if I were you.

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## Tracy C

> We are all wasting our time. There are no viable treatments.


 Both Propecia and Rogaine work for most people who use these medications correctly and properly.  Unfortunately, they do not work for everyone - nothing does.  Also, many males are using these medications on their hair lines.  The hair line is the area that is least likely to respond to any treatment other than transplant surgery.  Males are genetically programmed to loose their adolescent hair lines and develop an adult male hair line.  I am very well aware that the majority of the guys here do not want to accept that reality - but it is the truth.  To proclaim that these treatments do not work at all because they did not work on your hair line is flatly false.

During this past Sunday's BTT broadcast, Spencer pointed out that many guys are using these treatments simply to try to restore their hair lines.  Yes, some males can restore some of there hair line with medications - but most males cannot.  That does not mean the treatments don't work.  These treatments do work on the vertex and mid-anterior for people who use them properly.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> I wouldnt if I were you.


 Can you tell me why not?

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Both Propecia and Rogaine work for most people who use these medications correctly and properly.  Unfortunately, they do not work for everyone - nothing does.  Also, many males are using these medications on their hair lines.  The hair line is the area that is least likely to respond to any treatment other than transplant surgery.  Males are genetically programmed to loose their adolescent hair lines and develop an adult male hair line.  I am very well aware that the majority of the guys here do not want to accept that reality - but it is the truth.  To proclaim that these treatments do not work at all because they did not work on your hair line is flatly false.
> 
> During this past Sunday's BTT broadcast, Spencer pointed out that many guys are using these treatments simply to try to restore their hair lines.  Yes, some males can restore some of there hair line with medications - but most males cannot.  That does not mean the treatments don't work.  These treatments do work on the vertex and mid-anterior for people who use them properly.


 I havent jumped onto treatments because everyone tells me I have a mature hairline. 

HOWEVER

I am shit scared, especially after yday comment

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Both Propecia and Rogaine work for most people who use these medications correctly and properly.  Unfortunately, they do not work for everyone - nothing does.  Also, many males are using these medications on their hair lines.  The hair line is the area that is least likely to respond to any treatment other than transplant surgery.  Males are genetically programmed to loose their adolescent hair lines and develop an adult male hair line.  I am very well aware that the majority of the guys here do not want to accept that reality - but it is the truth.  To proclaim that these treatments do not work at all because they did not work on your hair line is flatly false.
> 
> During this past Sunday's BTT broadcast, Spencer pointed out that many guys are using these treatments simply to try to restore their hair lines.  Yes, some males can restore some of there hair line with medications - but most males cannot.  That does not mean the treatments don't work.  These treatments do work on the vertex and mid-anterior for people who use them properly.


 And what difference is the mature hairline from balding.

Who is to say it wont progress?

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## Tracy C

Maybe it is just an adult hair line, maybe it is more.  I can't see you so I don't know.  However, if others guys are teasing you because you have an adult hair line and they don't, don't worry, because they will have adult hair lines themselves before too long.

If all you have going on is an adult male hair line and no thinning in your crown or mid-anterior areas, there is not much point in trying to treat it.  If you do have thinning in your vertex and/or mid-anterior areas and that bothers you, you probably should talk to your doctor about treating it.






> And what difference is the mature hairline from balding.


 This is a grey area.  If you also have thinning in your vertex and/or mid-anterior, you are balding.  Otherwise only time will reveal if it is actually balding or not.






> Who is to say it wont progress?


 There is no way to predict that.  The best thing you can do is take good quality photos of your scalp every six months to help you keep an eye on it and catch it early if it is actually is balding.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Maybe it is just an adult hair line, maybe it is more.  I can't see you so I don't know.  However, if others guys are teasing you because you have an adult hair line and they don't, don't worry, because they will have adult hair lines themselves before too long.
> 
> If all you have going on is an adult male hair line and no thinning in your crown or mid-anterior areas, there is not much point in trying to treat it.  If you do have thinning in your vertex and/or mid-anterior areas and that bothers you, you probably should talk to your doctor about treating it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a grey area.  If you also have thinning in your vertex and/or mid-anterior, you are balding.  Otherwise only time will reveal if it is actually balding or not.
> ...


 So why wait until I lose more hair? When I can maintain now

This mature hairline sounds like a myth to make guys feel better.

Sigh feel so frustrated

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## Tracy C

> This mature hairline sounds like a myth to make guys feel better.


 The vast majority of guys want to believe that this is a myth.  It isn't a myth.  This is one of those natural and normal male physical traits that differs from females like bigger hands, bigger feet, deeper voice, wider shoulders and so on.

Whether you wait to treat it or not is entirely up to you.  It is your decision alone and no one can or should make it for you.  You can only try to predict what will happen but you cannot know for sure what will happen.  You need to look at your male relatives from both sides of your family to try to determine if it is likely to get worse or not.

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## 25 going on 65

I understand the frustration with current treatments. I would love to stop taking hormone medication if something newer would come out.
That said, finasteride really is a better hair loss treatment than the reputation it seems to have on these forums. When reading the scary posts about guys who got side effects, we often forget that less than 5% of all men who take this drug will experience sides over a 5-year period. 
And the thing is, it works. It doesn't regrow a teenage rock star head of hair, but it can be the difference between adjusting to a new self-image every 6-12 months vs. looking the same for many years.
Let me make it clear: I want to stop taking hormone drugs. I would love for something better to come out so I could quit fin. But other than dutasteride, it's the only way to actually fight MPB right now. It's let me keep a NW2 and reverse my thinning--had I not taken it, I would have visible diffuse loss in at least a NW3v pattern right now. 
And then there's Spencer, who I believe is a NW3. The dude started balding more than 2 decades ago... without treatment he would be at least a NW5 right now, probably more like a NW6.

So in closing: I agree, we need better treatments. But I'm still glad to have current ones. When it comes down to it, you want to be able to live comfortably today, not "in another 5 years."

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## yeahyeahyeah

> The vast majority of guys want to believe that this is a myth.  It isn't a myth.  This is one of those natural and normal male physical traits that differs from females like bigger hands, bigger feet, deeper voice, wider shoulders and so on.
> 
> Whether you wait to treat it or not is entirely up to you.  It is your decision alone and no one can or should make it for you.  You can only try to predict what will happen but you cannot know for sure what will happen.  You need to look at your male relatives from both sides of your family to try to determine if it is likely to get worse or not.


 Thats the thing we dont have many high norwoods.

And I dont know why you keep calling this a male trait, because there are so many guys like tom cruise or brad pitt that keep their juvanile hairline

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## yeahyeahyeah

> I understand the frustration with current treatments. I would love to stop taking hormone medication if something newer would come out.
> That said, finasteride really is a better hair loss treatment than the reputation it seems to have on these forums. When reading the scary posts about guys who got side effects, we often forget that less than 5% of all men who take this drug will experience sides over a 5-year period. 
> And the thing is, it works. It doesn't regrow a teenage rock star head of hair, but it can be the difference between adjusting to a new self-image every 6-12 months vs. looking the same for many years.
> Let me make it clear: I want to stop taking hormone drugs. I would love for something better to come out so I could quit fin. But other than dutasteride, it's the only way to actually fight MPB right now. It's let me keep a NW2 and reverse my thinning--had I not taken it, I would have visible diffuse loss in at least a NW3v pattern right now. 
> And then there's Spencer, who I believe is a NW3. The dude started balding more than 2 decades ago... without treatment he would be at least a NW5 right now, probably more like a NW6.
> 
> So in closing: I agree, we need better treatments. But I'm still glad to have current ones. When it comes down to it, you want to be able to live comfortably today, not "in another 5 years."


 Would starting at .25 be wise.

How long have you been on propecia, have you had any sides?

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## Tracy C

> And I dont know why you keep calling this a male trait, because there are so many guys like tom cruise or brad pitt that keep their juvanile hairline


 Open your eyes and look around while you are out and about in the real world.  I could go to any high school in the country and find that well over half of the young guys attending those schools have an adult male hair line.  Most of them will get worse during their lifetime, some of them won't.  It is very rare for a male to keep his juvenile hair line.  These who do keep their juvenile hair lines are the anomalies, not you.






> Thats the thing we dont have many high norwoods.


 Do any of them have thinning in their vertex and/or mid-anterior?

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## 25 going on 65

> Would starting at .25 be wise.
> 
> How long have you been on propecia, have you had any sides?


 I've been on it for about 21 months as well as keto shampoo (which I started at least 6 months before fin....maybe longer than that). In the beginning I did notice a slight change in ejaculatory fluid (sorry for too much info), which seemed to resolve itself pretty quickly. I'm not positive it was from finasteride, but it definitely could have been my body going through a drug adjustment period.

As for starting at .25 and working up, I think this may reduce your risk of side effects. I don't think it's necessary for most men, but I also see nothing wrong with "tapering up" this way. If it makes you feel safer than starting at 1 mg or 1.25 mg, I would say go for it.

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## Tracy C

> As for starting at .25 and working up, I think this may reduce your risk of side effects. I don't think it's necessary for most men, but I also see nothing wrong with "tapering up" this way.


 For what it's worth, pretty much every time I have had to go on a medication, I have gone through a taper up period before settling into the dose my doctor specified.

There are others things anyone and everyone can do to reduce their chances of experiencing negative side effects from any medication.  Mainly, it is about being as healthy as you can possibly be.  It is a well known medical fact that a very healthy person is less likely to experience negative side effects than a person who is not so healthy.  Armed with that information, it does not hurt to spend six months or so working on becoming as healthy as you can be before starting.  There are really only five simple rules you need to follow and live by to achieve that.  They are:  Rule #1) Get enough exercise.  Rule #2) Drink plenty of water.  Rule #3) Eat healthy.  Rule #4) Get plenty of sleep.  Rule #5) Follow these five rules at least five days a week for the rest of your life.  Pretty simple really.

Having said that, it is also important to note that if a person is deathly terrified of the possible side effects of any medication, that person is far more likely to experience the possible negative side effects.  The mind is funny that way.

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## worried

Some Sides can be presistent its written on the propecia website and they can appear in less 2% of users 

You are lucky if you didnt feel the sides or got away from the sides

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## BaldinLikeBaldwin

I don't know if "lucky" is the right word to describe those who don't have persistent sides...

I would say those who have are extremely unlucky though.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Open your eyes and look around while you are out and about in the real world.  I could go to any high school in the country and find that well over half of the young guys attending those schools have an adult male hair line.  *Most of them will get worse during their lifetime, some of them won't.  It is very rare for a male to keep his juvenile hair line.*  These who do keep their juvenile hair lines are the anomalies, not you.


 
Well then it is not a mature hairline, it is a slow form of MPB.





> Do any of them have thinning in their vertex and/or mid-anterior?


 They are NW6s.

I have one uncle who has hairloss and it has stopped. But his started when he was in his 40s.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> I've been on it for about 21 months as well as keto shampoo (which I started at least 6 months before fin....maybe longer than that). In the beginning I did notice a slight change in ejaculatory fluid (sorry for too much info), which seemed to resolve itself pretty quickly. I'm not positive it was from finasteride, but it definitely could have been my body going through a drug adjustment period.
> 
> As for starting at .25 and working up, I think this may reduce your risk of side effects. I don't think it's necessary for most men, but I also see nothing wrong with "tapering up" this way. If it makes you feel safer than starting at 1 mg or 1.25 mg, I would say go for it.


 Does it help with the hairline?

Read guys saying their hairline worsens after taking this.

And will I shed?

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## DepressedByHairLoss

I understand your frustration with the current treatments as well.  I will concede that finasteride does slow down hair loss to the point that I'm taking it myself.  But in terms of regrowth, the options that we have out there now are utterly pathetic.  I haven't seen minoxidil regrow anything other than vellous hairs and for most people, I don't think that it regrows a damn thing.  To call it a hair regrowth stimulant is an absolute joke, just like I laugh when people refer to "The Big 3" as minoxidil, finasteride, and some dipshit shampoo like Nizoral.  I will concede that finasteride is effective in slowing down hair loss, but the other two (minoxidil and nizoral) are really just a joke and show how pathetic our options are today for regrowing our hair.  As I've said so many times before, for an issue that affects our lives so drastically and negatively (hair loss), it's really unconscionable that we have such limited options to treat it.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> I understand your frustration with the current treatments as well.  I will concede that finasteride does slow down hair loss to the point that I'm taking it myself.  But in terms of regrowth, the options that we have out there now are utterly pathetic.  I haven't seen minoxidil regrow anything other than vellous hairs and for most people, I don't think that it regrows a damn thing.  To call it a hair regrowth stimulant is an absolute joke, just like I laugh when people refer to "The Big 3" as minoxidil, finasteride, and some dipshit shampoo like Nizoral.  I will concede that finasteride is effective in slowing down hair loss, but the other two (minoxidil and nizoral) are really just a joke and show how pathetic our options are today for regrowing our hair.  As I've said so many times before, for an issue that affects our lives so drastically and negatively (hair loss), it's really unconscionable that we have such limited options to treat it.


 Have you had any sides etc etc?

How long have you been on it for and at what dosage

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## 25 going on 65

> Does it help with the hairline?
> 
> Read guys saying their hairline worsens after taking this.
> 
> And will I shed?


 Yes it helps with the hairline. However I believe my corner recession progressed a bit before fin stopped it, during the first 6 months or so. (Those hairs would have gone without fin anyhow, so, oh well.) 
Since then though, the hairline is holding for me.
Most guys do go through an initial shed when starting hair loss treatments, including finasteride, so you probably will too. The important thing is to ride it out at least  a full year before even thinking about quitting.

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## DepressedByHairLoss

I've been on 1mg of Propecia for about 2 years now.  I have noticed sides as well yet I continue to take it because I'm scared to death of living life as a bald man.  It's helped to lessen hair loss but it hasn't completely stopped it (I still see hair on my bathroom floor although that may be because I have long hair).  If Propecia was much more effective (if it regrew a substantial amount of hair), then I'd be way more tolerant of the side effects.  But give it a try man, I'd take side effects any day over living life as a bald man.  I dunno, ask me in 5 years again though!

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## yeahyeahyeah

> I've been on 1mg of Propecia for about 2 years now.  I have noticed sides as well yet I continue to take it because I'm scared to death of living life as a bald man.  It's helped to lessen hair loss but it hasn't completely stopped it (I still see hair on my bathroom floor although that may be because I have long hair).  If Propecia was much more effective (if it regrew a substantial amount of hair), then I'd be way more tolerant of the side effects.  But give it a try man, I'd take side effects any day over living life as a bald man.  I dunno, ask me in 5 years again though!


 Well this is my hair:











As you can see it is thick. Which is why I am scared to death to start fin and worsen it. Given there hasn't been significant changes to my hair over the past year. 

I am 26.

But the problem is the hairline, it is forcing my hair to grow in the centre, forming a triangle in my head. Hence my friends comment about my temples. If my hair stays the same, I will be a happy man, but I dont know if I should hold out until better treatments come out on start fin.

Sigh I feel so sad about this shit.

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## 25 going on 65

If you have MPB, finasteride is not going to make you lose any hair that you wouldn't lose without it.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> If you have MPB, finasteride is not going to make you lose any hair that you wouldn't lose without it.


 based on the photos, would you start using fin?

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## 25 going on 65

Only if you have MPB, which is hard to tell from your pics. If you have it, the earlier you start fin, the more hair you will save. If you don't have it, fin is pointless.

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## jpm

Dude you are not that bad at all!! better than like 85% of people on here!

To anyone who wasn't concerned with balding they wouldn't even bat an eyelid at your hairline.

personally i would start on a low does of fin.

but thats my opinion, im sure others will warn you off!!!

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Only if you have MPB, which is hard to tell from your pics. If you have it, the earlier you start fin, the more hair you will save. If you don't have it, fin is pointless.


 See this is my dilemma, I just don't know if it is worth fretting about or not.

I sent my pics to Rahal for a consultation, the rep was like - you have a mature hairline. Don't sweat over it.

But - that's it, I know I have lost hair, but I don't know if I will lose anymore hair. For the life of me I want to avoid meds at all cost.

Mu hairline was more rounded before.

I am 26 for anyone interested in my age.

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## 2020

****'s sake.... there should be an automatic ban for anyone who even begins typing "mature hairline". No such thing. You are balding. Yes it's in early stages but you're still balding. Start treating it now.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> ****'s sake.... there should be an automatic ban for anyone who even begins typing "mature hairline". No such thing. You are balding. Yes it's in early stages but you're still balding. Start treating it now.


 Exactly like this guy too:



Sucks BALLS. Wish I could pull it off like him.
Currently using toco 8 and niz.

Shedding has decreased with toco. 

Remains to be seen if it is effective. Maintainence will be enough.

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## Kirby_

Yeah3, you may have lost hair compared to you when you were 16, but a NW2 isn't _balding_ balding. It's mild MPB or pre-MPB MPB that 99.9&#37; of the population won't be able to spot, or consider 'wrong'. Not that that fact should mean one doesn't need to treat it , or at least plan to treat it, but it's not past the point of no return just yet.

I agree with you about the general point that existing hairloss treatments are utterly terrible. No wonder so few men actually use them. They're treading water at best. Just hope that they let us tread water for long enough for the big guns to arrive on the market...*

* or via other means of acquiring them, at least.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Yeah3, you may have lost hair compared to you when you were 16, but a NW2 isn't _balding_ balding. It's mild MPB or pre-MPB MPB that 99.9&#37; of the population won't be able to spot, or consider 'wrong'. Not that that fact should mean one doesn't need to treat it , or at least plan to treat it, but it's not past the point of no return just yet.
> 
> I agree with you about the general point that existing hairloss treatments are utterly terrible. No wonder so few men actually use them. They're treading water at best. Just hope that they let us tread water for long enough for the big guns to arrive on the market...*
> 
> * or via other means of acquiring them, at least.


 Yeah, dont know wtf to do. Sent hassan and wong a consultation, see what they say. May go to a dermatologist for extra measures.

On one hand, I fancy my chances of holding onto my NW2 for 5 years at least (when the big boys come out) - given you have guys like my brother, pierce brosnan, jordan knight, john terry with similar hairlines and thickness. Whose hair seem to be stable.

But at the same time, I am very stressed out over this. Because - you just don't know.

Do you know that if you lose hair, you will become a high norwood? Are there cases where it goes back a bit and stops?

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## ryan555

> See this is my dilemma, I just don't know if it is worth fretting about or not.
> 
> I sent my pics to Rahal for a consultation, the rep was like - you have a mature hairline. Don't sweat over it.
> 
> But - that's it, I know I have lost hair, but I don't know if I will lose anymore hair. For the life of me I want to avoid meds at all cost.
> 
> Mu hairline was more rounded before.
> 
> I am 26 for anyone interested in my age.


 I don't know why you are fretting and Rahal is not going to touch you right now with that hairline.  When I first started losing hair in my hairline, I was about 20 and I became obsessed with it.  I was sure I'd be bald soon and every time I saw hair fall out my heart sank.  Then I got on Propecia as soon as it came to the market and my juvenile hairline regrew almost completely so I never thought about it for 12 years.  Two years ago, had to stop Propecia cold turkey and I assumed my hair loss would "catch up" and I'd be bald within a few months.  After several months off the drug, my hairline slowly started inching backward but it has gone to basically a Norwood 2, maybe a tiny bit more receded than yours but not much (*knocking on wood*).  I am now 35 years old.  I have recently seen a well-known hair transplant doctor, not because I want a HT but because I wanted him to evaluate my hair.  He found that there was very little miniaturization behind my hairline and told me that my hairline was mature, that he thinks I never needed Propecia, and that I should not restart it.  Why am I rambling on about this?  Well, I think there are a few take-aways from my story that are relevant to you:

1) Stop fretting and go see a doctor who can look for miniaturization with a microscope.  They can see where your hair loss is headed and tell you definitively if you need to be on meds or if your loss is likely to stop soon.

2) The mature hairline is NOT a myth.  Someone whose hairline recedes a little may indeed end up becoming bald later in life, but it may stop for many years, or it may never resume again.  I promise you I have men in my family in their 60's and 70's with Norwood 2 hairlines that they've had since their 20's.  

3) If you are really unable to accept your hairline, which appears to be natural for an adult male and does not at all look like that of a balding man, then the meds do often work to bring your hairline back down.  It certainly did for me.

4) I seriously doubt that your friends are making as many comments as you think they are.  Nobody is staring at your hairline except for you and people will not ever think of you as balding unless your loss becomes cosmetically significant, which it absolutely is not.

Stop paying attention to the neurotic lunatics on the internet who tell you that losing a centimeter or two off your hairline is then end of the world.  Go get your hair checked, formulate a plan, and move on with life.  Seriously.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> I don't know why you are fretting and Rahal is not going to touch you right now with that hairline.  When I first started losing hair in my hairline, I was about 20 and I became obsessed with it.  I was sure I'd be bald soon and every time I saw hair fall out my heart sank.  Then I got on Propecia as soon as it came to the market and my juvenile hairline regrew almost completely so I never thought about it for 12 years.  Two years ago, had to stop Propecia cold turkey and I assumed my hair loss would "catch up" and I'd be bald within a few months.  After several months off the drug, my hairline slowly started inching backward but it has gone to basically a Norwood 2, maybe a tiny bit more receded than yours but not much (*knocking on wood*).  I am now 35 years old.  I have recently seen a well-known hair transplant doctor, not because I want a HT but because I wanted him to evaluate my hair.  He found that there was very little miniaturization behind my hairline and told me that my hairline was mature, that he thinks I never needed Propecia, and that I should not restart it.  Why am I rambling on about this?  Well, I think there are a few take-aways from my story that are relevant to you:
> 
> 1) Stop fretting and go see a doctor who can look for miniaturization with a microscope.  They can see where your hair loss is headed and tell you definitively if you need to be on meds or if your loss is likely to stop soon.
> 
> 2) The mature hairline is NOT a myth.  Someone whose hairline recedes a little may indeed end up becoming bald later in life, but it may stop for many years, or it may never resume again.  I promise you I have men in my family in their 60's and 70's with Norwood 2 hairlines that they've had since their 20's.  
> 
> 3) If you are really unable to accept your hairline, which appears to be natural for an adult male and does not at all look like that of a balding man, then the meds do often work to bring your hairline back down.  It certainly did for me.
> 
> 4) I seriously doubt that your friends are making as many comments as you think they are.  Nobody is staring at your hairline except for you and people will not ever think of you as balding unless your loss becomes cosmetically significant, which it absolutely is not.
> ...


 Thanks, thats very informative.

What does your hairline look like now - is it similar to mine?

Also, why are you still here, if your hairloss is stable?

Cheers

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## ryan555

> Thanks, thats very informative.
> 
> What does your hairline look like now - is it similar to mine?
> 
> Also, why are you still here, if your hairloss is stable?
> 
> Cheers


 My hairline is about like yours, maybe even a tad bit more receded, but it doesn't look like I'm balding.  The hair loss seems to be pretty stable - I rarely notice any shedding or anything like that.  Will I continue to lose hair in the future?  Quite possibly, but luckily there are good treatments out there and better ones on the way.  The doctor who saw me recently told me that most adult men just do not keep the same hair they had as a teenager and that half of his consultations are with guys who are freaking out because they are seeing changes.  He said in addition to the whole "mature hairline" phenomenon, a lot of guys just lose a bit of thickness, texture, etc.  This doctor has no reason to lie to me about these things.  In fact, it seems that he could easily make a lot of money convincing these men to have a HT.  

I still read this board occasionally for a few reasons.  First, I am a fairly large investor in one of the much-discussed companies working on new treatments and I like to see what people are saying about it.  Second, I like to hear about all the new treatments out there, in case I ever end up needing them.  Third, this forum needs more people speaking in a rational, adult tone to drown out all the crazy neurotic people who are spreading hysteria and misinformation.

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## ryan555

> I agree with you about the general point that existing hairloss treatments are utterly terrible. No wonder so few men actually use them.


 Where do you get your information?  Millions of men are on Propecia and I would assume even more than that are on Minoxidil.  I know of at least 10 of my friends who take Propecia and it has maintained their hair.  I took it for 12 years and I kept the hair of a 12-year-old boy the entire time I was on it.  These meds work well and for the vast majority of men they do not cause major issues.  You would never know this by reading these boards because there is absolute hysteria being spread about them.

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## ryan555

> ****'s sake.... there should be an automatic ban for anyone who even begins typing "mature hairline". No such thing. You are balding. Yes it's in early stages but you're still balding. Start treating it now.


 Yes, I'm sure there is a conspiracy where all the hair loss doctors in the world have decided to make this up even though they would all benefit financially were it not true.  I am glad 2020 from the bald truth forums knows better than the medical community.  By the way, my grandfather who died at 82 with a thick Norwood 2 hairline would disagree with your assessment.

After spending some time on this board, I'm starting to think that IQ and emotional stability are somehow contained within hair follicles.

----------


## Kirby_

> Where do you get your information?  Millions of men are on Propecia and I would assume even more than that are on Minoxidil.  I know of at least 10 of my friends who take Propecia and it has maintained their hair.  I took it for 12 years and I kept the hair of a 12-year-old boy the entire time I was on it.  These meds work well and for the vast majority of men they do not cause major issues.  You would never know this by reading these boards because there is absolute hysteria being spread about them.


 I didn't mean to come across as hysterical - I didn't mean that the existing treatments make you drop dead or lose your penis within a month or whatever, just that they have limited usefulness. Regrowth in even the best case scenarios is unfortunately not magnificent in terms of quantity of hair. The existing mass-market treatments are at best just to maintain, and only for a finite amount of time. That is better than nothing, yes, but there certainly needs to be advancements in treatment options.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Yes, I'm sure there is a conspiracy where all the hair loss doctors in the world have decided to make this up even though they would all benefit financially were it not true.  I am glad 2020 from the bald truth forums knows better than the medical community.  By the way, my grandfather who died at 82 with a thick Norwood 2 hairline would disagree with your assessment.
> 
> After spending some time on this board, I'm starting to think that IQ and emotional stability are somehow contained within hair follicles.


 Was your grandad born with the norwood 2, or did he develop it?

And what was the shape of the norwood 2 like? Was it like ours?

And yes you are right, it makes more sense of a HT dr to just perform a HT - they make more cash that way.

----------


## ryan555

> I didn't mean to come across as hysterical - I didn't mean that the existing treatments make you drop dead or lose your penis within a month or whatever, just that they have limited usefulness. Regrowth in even the best case scenarios is unfortunately not magnificent in terms of quantity of hair. The existing mass-market treatments are at best just to maintain, and only for a finite amount of time. That is better than nothing, yes, but there certainly needs to be advancements in treatment options.


 Sorry, I wasn't calling you hysterical, just referring to the hysteria that is spread about these meds in general.  They aren't perfect but they are much better than many on this forum would have you believe.

----------


## Kirby_

> Sorry, I wasn't calling you hysterical, just referring to the hysteria that is spread about these meds in general.  They aren't perfect but they are much better than many on this forum would have you believe.


 Well, I agree that there's a lot of negativity around the safety of the existing medications. I put off starting fin by three months as I was terrified to death by the stories I was coming across on hairloss forums.

----------


## ryan555

> Was your grandad born with the norwood 2, or did he develop it?
> 
> And what was the shape of the norwood 2 like? Was it like ours?
> 
> And yes you are right, it makes more sense of a HT dr to just perform a HT - they make more cash that way.


 Of course he developed it.  Nobody is born with a Norwood 2.  Teenage boys pretty much always have a low hairline like their female counterparts.  Then in the late teens or twenties, a lot of guys start receding.  Some of these men have aggressive MPB, which is generally apparent by their mid- to late-twenties when it is going to move to an advanced pattern of baldness.  Some of them stay that way for many years and then advance in their hair loss slowly (usually to a less advanced balding pattern).  Some others stay that way forever, or only experience very minor additional loss when they are much older (go look at Mitt Romney - do you think he's ever going to be bald?).  Then there are a minority of men who are indeed lucky enough to keep the childhood hairline.  People look at celebrities and say "look at those NW1 hairlines," but you don't know who has had work done.  I can think of a few actors with NW1 hairlines (George Clooney and Sean Penn are examples) who have had their hairlines transplanted from NW2's to NW1's.  The guys who refuse to accept the notion of a mature hairline are most likely guys with more severe baldness who want everyone to be as miserable as they are.  Or, they are neurotic OCD types who get some sort of weird satisfaction out of freaking themselves and everyone else out completely.

----------


## Tracy C

> Well then it is not a mature hairline, it is a slow form of MPB.


 You are not paying attention.






> They are NW6s.


 This conflicts with what you said before.






> Does it help with the hairline?
> 
> Read guys saying their hairline worsens after taking this.


 Why are you not paying attention?






> And will I shed?


 Again, why are you not paying attention?

Maybe it is best for you stop here and go talk to a specialist.  Talk to a few specialists.  Take a tape recorder with you - or at least write down what the doctor says word for word.

I can see from the poor quality pictures you have provided that you are beyond a normal adult male hair line.  You are a Norwood 2.  I cannot tell from these poor quality photos if you are thinning in the vertex or mid-anterior.

----------


## lilpauly

> The vast majority of guys want to believe that this is a myth.  It isn't a myth.  This is one of those natural and normal male physical traits that differs from females like bigger hands, bigger feet, deeper voice, wider shoulders and so on.
> 
> Whether you wait to treat it or not is entirely up to you.  It is your decision alone and no one can or should make it for you.  You can only try to predict what will happen but you cannot know for sure what will happen.  You need to look at your male relatives from both sides of your family to try to determine if it is likely to get worse or not.


 i had a mature hairline 2 years ago and i looked like an old man .

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> You are not paying attention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This conflicts with what you said before.
> 
> 
> ...


 You told me before it was a matrure hairline, now you are telling me it is beyond that - which is it?

----------


## Tracy C

> ****'s sake.... there should be an automatic ban for anyone who even begins typing "mature hairline". No such thing.


 Before you say another world of this nonsense.  Get away from your computer, get out into the real world, open your eyes and look around.  Men have a very different hair line than women.  Women usually keep their juvenile hair lines, men usually don't.  Open your eyes.

----------


## Tracy C

> You told me before it was a matrure hairline, now you are telling me it is beyond that - which is it?


 I did not tell you that you had an adult male hair line.  You did not provide a picture before.  So how could I tell you that without seeing you?  Pay attention.  If you are not going to pay attention, you are not going to get much help here.  Go see a specialist - and pay attention while you are there.  Do whatever you need to do to make sure you understand what you are being told.

----------


## Jcm800

Tracy C you make me smile with your posts, you remind me of a school teacher with your manner, no offence meant  :Smile:

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## yeahyeahyeah

> I did not tell you that you had an adult male hair line.  You did not provide a picture before.  So how could I tell you that without seeing you?  Pay attention.  If you are not going to pay attention, you are not going to get much help here.  Go see a specialist - and pay attention while you are there.  Do whatever you need to do to make sure you understand what you are being told.


 Yes you did - here:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7256

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

2nd post:

"looks like a mature hairline"

I asked you questions then, and you was telling me the same thing. but now are telling me something different. This is precisely why I am confused.

This thread was created a while back.

****s sake, this shit is depressing. You know its bad, when tracy thinks you are balding.

----------


## Tracy C

> i had a mature hairline 2 years ago and i looked like an old man .


 Maybe neither of you actually knows what an adult male hair line looks like.  Here is a clue.  If your hair line looks like a girls hair line, you do not have a mature male hair line.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Maybe neither of you actually knows what an adult male hair line looks like.  Here is a clue.  If your hair line looks like a girls hair line, you do not have a mature male hair line.


 So if you have a NW6, you have a mature adult hairline?

----------


## Tracy C

> So if you have a NW6, you have a mature adult hairline?


 It is painfully obvious that you are not paying attention.  If you are not going to pay attention I cannot waste any more of my time on you.  Go see a specialist.

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## lilpauly

> Maybe neither of you actually knows what an adult male hair line looks like.  Here is a clue.  If your hair line looks like a girls hair line, you do not have a mature male hair line.


 i'm working on restoring my hairline. i HAD a mature hairline and i looked terrible

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## Tracy C

> Yes you did - here:


 Different photos.  Still poor quality.  In that first photo from back then, it does look like a mature male hair line.  In the additional photos you have provided today, I can see more.  The quality of the photos you provide can make a very big difference.

Now really.  You are not paying attention and as a result you are wasting my time.  Go see a specialist.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> It is painfully obvious that you are not paying attention.  If you are not going to pay attention I cannot waste any more of my time on you.  Go see a specialist.


 You clearly didnt check my thread.

I will see a specialist, looks like very few people on here can accurately diagnose hairloss.

One minute mature hairline, the next minute, beyond the adult mature hairline. Can someone provide pics of how a mature hairline looks like?

Rahal turned me down because he thought it was a mature hairline based on photos. Anyway sent a pic to hasson and wong.

Also - be a lot nicer to people, I am clearly quite distressed over this whole thing, so its natural to feel a bit frustrated. I am potentially going to be taking propecia and ****ing around with my hormones, which isnt a beautiful thought.

----------


## mpb47

You guys are always arguing over semantics. You may not agree 100% but you are almost saying the same thing. My understanding (from Dr. Proctor) is that the mature hairline does in fact exist and is technically separate (for the moment) from mpb. In most(but not all) cases mpb does follow at some point in the future..though that can be many years down the road (for me it was around 20 years).

Also I was reading a F>M board this past weekend and saw them discussing this very issue. It was brought up that virtually all women who take testosterone get this same hairline change as well, even if they do not ever go bald. Just guessing but it sounds like it's more of a side effect of testosterone than DHT.

----------


## mpb47

> Different photos.  Still poor quality.  In that first photo from back then, it does look like a mature male hair line.  In the additional photos you have provided today, I can see more.  The quality of the photos you provide can make a very big difference.
> 
> Now really.  You are not paying attention and as a result you are wasting my time.  Go see a specialist.


 Tracy,
I think they are just trying to push your buttons..

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## lilpauly

> You clearly didnt check my thread.
> 
> I will see a specialist, looks like very few people on here can accurately diagnose hairloss.
> 
> One minute mature hairline, the next minute, beyond the adult mature hairline.
> 
> Rahal turned me down because he thought it was a mature hairline based on photos. Anyway sent a pic to hasson and wong.
> 
> Also - be a lot nicer to people, I am clearly quite distressed over this whole thing, so its natural to feel a bit frustrated. I am potentially going to be taking propecia and ****ing around with my hormones, which isnt a beautiful thought.


 i take everything dut, fin, cb-03-01, asc j9, myristate rum, ahk copper peptides, Bimatoprost, proxiphen, rogaine, OC000459 -CRTH2- Antagonist  soon, neosh 101 soon. i got 200mg of mdv3100 thats my last resort

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Tracy,
> I think they are just trying to push your buttons..


 No, we just dont know what she means by mature hairline. It's ambiguous.

I wish she could provide pictures.

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## Tracy C

> i'm working on restoring my hairline. i HAD a mature hairline and i looked terrible


 You guys really need to learn how to provide good quality photos.






> Rahal turned me down because he thought it was a mature hairline based on photos. Anyway sent a pic to hasson and wong.


 So it's not just me.  Do you understand the importance of taking and providing good quality photos now?






> My understanding (from Dr. Proctor) is that the mature hairline does in fact exist and is technically separate (for the moment) from mpb. In most(but not all) cases mpb does follow at some point in the future..though that can be many years down the road (for me it was around 20 years).


 This is correct.






> Also I was reading a F>M board this past weekend and saw them discussing this very issue. It was brought up that virtually all women who take testosterone get this same hairline change as well, even if they do not ever go bald. Just guessing but it sounds like it's more of a side effect of testosterone than DHT.


 Didn't know that but it does make sense.  I only know one M>F but she already had a male hair line before she transitioned.  She transitioned in her early 20's, so her male hair line was already very well established by that time.  Her estrogen shots did not fill it back in, even after her surgery.

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## lilpauly

http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t...rline-regrowth

page 1 shows little hairs

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## yeahyeahyeah

> You guys really need to learn how to provide good quality photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So it's not just me.  Do you understand the importance of taking and providing good quality photos now?


 I did not send him that photo!

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## Tracy C

> Also - be a lot nicer to people, I am clearly quite distressed over this whole thing, so its natural to feel a bit frustrated.


 Being "nicer" is not appropriate when it is obvious that the other person is not paying attention.  I will not be talking to you anymore.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Being "nicer" is not appropriate when it is obvious that the other person is not paying attention.  I will not be talking to you anymore.


 You are overreacting.

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## 2020

> http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t...rline-regrowth
> 
> page 1 shows little hairs


 "Critical Information

You have been banned from this forum."

----------


## Johny.track131

lilpauly, i'm planning on an all out assualt (hopefulyl without fin/dut) but willing to go for nearly everything else. Can you give me approximate costs on the whole setup per month (or year) and if it's feasable/normal and how much time it takes from your day? or if you can give the best of the best in your regimen, can you suggest which and how i should get/apply them?  :Embarrassment:

----------


## 2020

dude, the reason lilpauly is using so much stuff is because he is also on steroids which accelerates hair loss 5000%. DUT and some androgen blocking topical would be more than enough

----------


## irreverent ambiguity

The balding process has begun for me. My vertex is thinning. I started shedding about six months ago, and now I am beginning to notice a difference. If I start using minoxidil now, will it shed out my healthy hairs on my vertex in addition to the fine and thin ones? And if it does, can I expect them to grow back? Or is that something I have to leave up to chance?

----------


## greatjob!

> You clearly didnt check my thread.
> 
> I will see a specialist, looks like very few people on here can accurately diagnose hairloss.
> 
> One minute mature hairline, the next minute, beyond the adult mature hairline. Can someone provide pics of how a mature hairline looks like?
> 
> Rahal turned me down because he thought it was a mature hairline based on photos. Anyway sent a pic to hasson and wong.
> 
> Also - be a lot nicer to people, I am clearly quite distressed over this whole thing, so its natural to feel a bit frustrated. I am potentially going to be taking propecia and ****ing around with my hormones, which isnt a beautiful thought.


 Holy sh*t man I missed the thread with your pictures in it. I only have one question for you. Why the hell are you even on this site? Your hair is perfect. I would literally kill someone for your hair, shoot I would have killed for your hair when I was like 17 yrs old. I really don't understand why you are distressed over anything or why you are on this site or why you are even consulting with hair transplant surgeons, you hair is perfect.

----------


## lilpauly

> lilpauly, i'm planning on an all out assualt (hopefulyl without fin/dut) but willing to go for nearly everything else. Can you give me approximate costs on the whole setup per month (or year) and if it's feasable/normal and how much time it takes from your day? or if you can give the best of the best in your regimen, can you suggest which and how i should get/apply them?


 kane sells ru 10g for 280 thats the best price! any1 who uses ru should be using the kramer bohn solution! it was the solution used in studies. the solution will sold http://www.mpbtreatments.com/. i bought my asc j9 from kane. it was tested to 99.99 pure. it 150 per gram which is a 6 month supply. it might i a have a whole seller  immortal hair wil be selling ahk copper peptides.

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## lilpauly

my regimen:bim,CRTH2 antagonis,ascj9,dut,finn,proxiphen,myistate rum,CB-03-01 , AHK-Cu peptide-copper complex, rogaine , SWAMI RAMDEV PATANJALI KESH KANTI HAIR CLEANSER SHAMPOO,Herbal Chumket Hair Re-Growth Shampoorevita shampoo, SBM Indra Neeli Hair Oil , SBM Pure Leaf Juice Shampoo(Thiruthaali,swanson hair revitaling formula,msm, garlic pills, mens vitamin,bhringaraj oil Silica complex, glutathione, blck caster oil,garlic pills, aloe vera, almond oil, sesa oil,parachute ayur vedic hair oil, neosh101

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## yeahyeahyeah

Hasson and Wong got back to me.

Apparently I am a NW2. And they are willing to lower my hairline to I guess a NW1.

A bit surprised tbh given that they are conservative.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Holy sh*t man I missed the thread with your pictures in it. I only have one question for you. Why the hell are you even on this site? Your hair is perfect. I would literally kill someone for your hair, shoot I would have killed for your hair when I was like 17 yrs old. I really don't understand why you are distressed over anything or why you are on this site or why you are even consulting with hair transplant surgeons, you hair is perfect.


 If my hair stays stable - then I wouldn't fret. Truth is nobody knows. Guess it's safe to say that given the hairline has been stable for 2 years, I won't go significantly bald any time soon.

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## lilpauly

> If my hair stays stable - then I wouldn't fret. Truth is nobody knows. Guess it's safe to say that given the hairline has been stable for 2 years, I won't go significantly bald any time soon.


 your hairline is nw 1.85. bottom line its receding a little! does your hairline bother u? if it does then i would jump on treatment

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## yeahyeahyeah

> your hairline is nw 1.85. bottom line its receding a little! does your hairline bother u? if it does then i would jump on treatment


 how did you get the figure nw 1.85? lol

So i take it the mature hairline is a myth

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## lilpauly

> how did you get the figure nw 1.85? lol
> 
> So i take it the mature hairline is a myth


 its a myth in my eyes.

----------


## Tracy C

> its a myth in my eyes.


 That's because your eyes are closed.  It isn't a myth.

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## greatjob!

> Hasson and Wong got back to me.
> 
> Apparently I am a NW2. And they are willing to lower my hairline to I guess a NW1.
> 
> A bit surprised tbh given that they are conservative.


 Dude your hair looks fine. In my opinion the last thing you need is a transplant. I don't see any reason to scar yourself up when you show barely any sign of hairloss. You have more hair than the vast majority of the population. Normally I never say anything like this because when something really bothers you, you don't believe it, but this is all in your head. There is know reason for you to be so worried about your hair.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Dude your hair looks fine. In my opinion the last thing you need is a transplant. I don't see any reason to scar yourself up when you show barely any sign of hairloss. You have more hair than the vast majority of the population. Normally I never say anything like this because when something really bothers you, you don't believe it, but this is all in your head. There is know reason for you to be so worried about your hair.


 My hairline has gone back though.

Saying that yeah, its pretty much the same - here is a pic of my hairline in June 2010 - I was 24 at the time:



Here is a pic of it today - 2012:



I just hope it holds out until better treatments are out.

I am not on fin, so I guess ths is a positive sign...just using toco 8, organic shampoos, and now niz.

If say I did get FUE, would I avoid scarring?

----------


## greatjob!

Those pics do show some recession, but your hair is still great. Fue is going to still leave some scarring in the donor area. If I was you I would not get a transplant your hair is amazing. I would get on Fin though. My biggest regret was that I didn't take it sooner. I started balding very early, like 14yrs old, I contemplated taking fin when I was 19 but was scared off by the sides. I lost a lot of hair and I'm on Fin now anyway and have zero sides.

----------


## lalala

This thread is ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason for this guy to be posting shit like this. He doesn't have any hair loss or any reason to be acting like he is. He is Scorpion II. 

He's probably just here so that everybody can tell him what great hair he is, blah, blah, blah, etc, etc, etc. 

Go away OP.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> This thread is ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason for this guy to be posting shit like this. He doesn't have any hair loss or any reason to be acting like he is. He is Scorpion II. 
> 
> He's probably just here so that everybody can tell him what great hair he is, blah, blah, blah, etc, etc, etc. 
> 
> Go away OP.


 I have obvious recession. Only because I am not a NW6 does not mean that I haven't lost hair.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Those pics do show some recession, but your hair is still great. Fue is going to still leave some scarring in the donor area. If I was you I would not get a transplant your hair is amazing. I would get on Fin though. My biggest regret was that I didn't take it sooner. I started balding very early, like 14yrs old, I contemplated taking fin when I was 19 but was scared off by the sides. I lost a lot of hair and I'm on Fin now anyway and have zero sides.


 Sigh been trying to avoid fin, I've been hoping that my hairline went back a bit and stopped. 

Sucks that there are no better treatments out there.

How long have you been on it? Did your hairloss pattern follow the same as mine?

I remember when I first started losing hair, I was told that losing hair at the front was normal and that all I was developing was a mature hairline, never been convinced.

Worst thing about this , is that I sm not even shedding - lost 0 hairs in the shower today.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

BTW greatJob or anyone else, have I lost any ground on my hairline since 2 years ago, cheers.

----------


## greatjob!

Your hair looks pretty much the same to me in both pics. I don't want to sound like a d*ck but I think you maybe overreacting a little. Your hair looks great. You hairloss pattern is not following mine. I never had as much hair as you have now. I was prob a NW 4 or so by the time I was 24. Things could be much worse. If you are really concerned I would look into Fin. If you are scared of the sides I know some guys are getting by with lower dosages.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Your hair looks pretty much the same to me in both pics. I don't want to sound like a d*ck but I think you maybe overreacting a little. Your hair looks great. You hairloss pattern is not following mine. I never had as much hair as you have now. I was prob a NW 4 or so by the time I was 24. Things could be much worse. If you are really concerned I would look into Fin. If you are scared of the sides I know some guys are getting by with lower dosages.


 Thanks greatjob!

I have been thinking about a taking a lower dosage.

What dosages are your friends taking?  For how long? And what is their hair situation since starting fin. Did they maintain or regrow?

Cheers mate.

----------


## greatjob!

I was just talking about people on the forums. Search around here and other forums. Search for posts by spex I know he has a thread talking about starting gradually for people who have had sides and I think it has worked for some. I have seen people taking 1mg but only three times a week, also seen people taking .25mg everyday. Not sure which country you're in but if you do get on Fin cheapest way is to get 5mg generic proscar and cut it. My pharmacy price matches Walmart here in the states so I 4 months supply for $9.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I was just talking about people on the forums. Search around here and other forums. Search for posts by spex I know he has a thread talking about starting gradually for people who have had sides and I think it has worked for some. I have seen people taking 1mg but only three times a week, also seen people taking .25mg everyday. Not sure which country you're in but if you do get on Fin cheapest way is to get 5mg generic proscar and cut it. My pharmacy price matches Walmart here in the states so I 4 months supply for $9.


 
1mg 3 times a week - is that effective?

----------


## greatjob!

Well I tried to post some links to another forum about the topic but it blocked the url. The forum is hair restoration network .com There are a lot of negative views of that forum on this site, but as most are transplant patients almost all of them are on fin so you can get some good feedback about it. Type "1 mg 3times a week fin propecia" and "propecia" with the poster as spex and you will get some good posts about reduced dosage.

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

If you're consistent, Finasteride and Rogaine/or Minoxidil Foam, would do your hair pretty good.

My hair certainly has not gotten worse while on Finasteride. I wouldn't say it has gotten better, but it stopped my hair loss.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> If you're consistent, Finasteride and Rogaine/or Minoxidil Foam, would do your hair pretty good.
> 
> My hair certainly has not gotten worse while on Finasteride. I wouldn't say it has gotten better, but it stopped my hair loss.


 yeah at the risk of sides right

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

> yeah at the risk of sides right


 No side effects for me. 1 year and a half.

----------


## clandestine

yeahyeahyeah; Sorry if this is harsh, but quit whining bro. You're not even really balding. NW1.5 maybe.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> yeahyeahyeah; Sorry if this is harsh, but quit whining bro. You're not even really balding. NW1.5 maybe.


 Was told I was NW2 by hasson and wong

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

> My hairline has gone back though.
> [/IMG]
> 
> I just hope it holds out until better treatments are out.
> 
> I am not on fin, so I guess ths is a positive sign...just using toco 8, organic shampoos, and now niz.
> 
> If say I did get FUE, would I avoid scarring?


 
It's gone back just a liiiiiiiiiiitle bit, it actually isn't really that noticeable. You have really thick hair. I have a receding hairline and thinning hair at the top, plus AA.

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

Yeahyeahyeah, or i'm just gonna call you Triple-Y, name is too long. Anyway, your hair looks good, and I see you're lifting your hair to show your hairline. Last time I was doing that, I was a teenager. I'd wish to have enough hair on top, that I could cover my receded hairline.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Yeahyeahyeah, or i'm just gonna call you Triple-Y, name is too long. Anyway, your hair looks good, and I see you're lifting your hair to show your hairline. Last time I was doing that, I was a teenager. I'd wish to have enough hair on top, that I could cover my receded hairline.


 Hey, thanks everyone.

Yeah noticable when I lift it up. I think I will put off taking propecia for now, given it is extremely slow pace MPB - if it is. Hopefully better treatments will be out in a few years.

I keep my hair short now, can't really grow it out anymore because it clumps up in the middle.

I feel for you patiently waiting, I mean I am fretting over a tiny bit of recession - must be difficult for you.

How old are you and was your hairline recession similar to mine?

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

Trust me I feel for myself too. Especially since there's limited treatments for AA, and the limited treatments have limited results. I'm also welcoming a new member to my head, part of the Alopecia Areata team. It has a week in training, now it's ready to come out. It's a new bald spot right in the the middle of my hairline. 

I'm currently 23 years old. Honestly i've been balding for years, it started with the hairline receding. I had very aggressive hair loss. It wasn't slow like yours. And it hit me really hard. It started slowly at 15, at 16 family members were telling me I have the corners of a hairline that is about to recede, my mother was telling me it's okay, it's normal "It's just a mature hairline", at 17-18 my hairline was receding but my hair looked so good I didn't care, it didn't effect me yet. Then in late December of when I was 18, and throughout 19, it got me brutally. And even though finasteride stopped the hairloss, I haven't been able to recover.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Trust me I feel for myself too. Especially since there's limited treatments for AA, and the limited treatments have limited results. I'm also welcoming a new member to my head, part of the Alopecia Areata team. It has a week in training, now it's ready to come out. It's a new bald spot right in the the middle of my hairline. 
> 
> I'm currently 23 years old. Honestly i've been balding for years, it started with the hairline receding. I had very aggressive hair loss. It wasn't slow like yours. And it hit me really hard. It started slowly at 15, at 16 family members were telling me I have the corners of a hairline that is about to recede, my mother was telling me it's okay, it's normal "It's just a mature hairline", at 17-18 my hairline was receding but my hair looked so good I didn't care, it didn't effect me yet. Then in late December of when I was 18, and throughout 19, it got me brutally. And even though finasteride stopped the hairloss, I haven't been able to recover.


 That's the problem with early loss, you don't know if it is just a mature hairline or what.

What was your actual hairline pattern like - was it the same as mine when you first noticed?

I hope to god, they cure this shit for good. It's so unfair how some guys get hit by it, whilst others dont.

Is it just me, but does aggressive loss really hits younger guys?

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

I think aggressive MPB can hit any age, it can go from a stabled "Mature hairline" one year, to a massive shed the next year.

I'm not sure if I had your pattern, but I can tell you it did start with the hairline appearing "matured".

This is my cheap hairline now[Today]. I have some ointment on it, treating the AA spots.

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

That stupid black mark on my forehead there, from wearing baseball caps every time I go out. I hate it. I don't know what can get that off. I just can't stop wearing hats.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> That stupid black mark on my forehead there, from wearing baseball caps every time I go out. I hate it. I don't know what can get that off. I just can't stop wearing hats.


 Man I think the problem with the mature hairline, is everyone receeds will have a mature hairline at one point or the other.

Like - how do you define it - it such an ambigious term.

Gets further complicated when indeed some guys do receed and then it stops - pierce brosnan, jordan knight being 2 examples.

You have a good head shape, and good skin tone man.

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

A matured hairline is people being nice to those with a slightly receded hairline. They don't want to call it a "slightly receded hairline", so they just called it a matured hairline.

It's like calling wigs, "hair systems". They just don't want to call it a wig.

The skin tone is more because of the lighting. My skin seems to get highly influenced depending on the lighting.

This is my skin[and side of my hairline and temple] under my room's dull white light.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> A matured hairline is people being nice to those with a slightly receded hairline. They don't want to call it a "slightly receded hairline", so they just called it a matured hairline.
> 
> It's like calling wigs, "hair systems". They just don't want to call it a wig.
> 
> The skin tone is more because of the lighting. My skin seems to get highly influenced depending on the lighting.
> 
> This is my skin[and side of my hairline and temple] under my room's dull white light.


 yeah I think you are right - matured hairline is just another name for mild receeded hairline.

Can you show me your hairline from the front?
BTW I have noticed that those type of glasses you are wearing suit bald guys.

Moby for example.

Were you shedding a lot when you were losing hair?

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

I didn't shed a lot until about 18-19 years old.

Lol the glasses, you know, I picked these glasses thinking nobody wears them. I wanted something different, well apparently thick frames are what is in style now. And I hate being in style. I don't watch TV unless it's baseball or boxing, so I wouldn't know about what is in style. Lol.

Like what angle, looking straight at the camera, or my hairline from the top?

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I didn't shed a lot until about 18-19 years old.
> 
> Lol the glasses, you know, I picked these glasses thinking nobody wears them. I wanted something different, well apparently thick frames are what is in style now. And I hate being in style. I don't watch TV unless it's baseball or boxing, so I wouldn't know about what is in style. Lol.
> 
> Like what angle, looking straight at the camera, or my hairline from the top?


 Front, tilted down  - by shedding a lot, how much hairs were you shedding do you remember.

Sorry for the questions, I am such a noob! :Embarrassment: 

Nah the best thing a bald guy can do, is to be ****ing stylish and own his look. A bald guy who dresses well, is in a much better position then one that doesn't.

Take a look at sting for example




Noticeable balding, but looks great. His dress sense actually detracts attention away from his hairline. First thing I noticed in that photo was his pin striped blazer and glasses!

Another example:



Tom ford - he isn't even trying. Such a don.

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

My hair on the top looks terrible, with the MPB+AA.

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

Those two guys are all suited up, they have money, and can stay looking clean everyday. I can't  :Frown:

----------


## clandestine

@Patiently; who is the person in your profile pic?

----------


## gmonasco

> @Patiently; who is the person in your profile pic?


 http://www.comicvine.com/lex-luthor/...0/105-1548314/

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

Lex Luthor from Smallville. The actor's name is Michael Rosenbaum.

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

> http://www.comicvine.com/lex-luthor/...0/105-1548314/


 Michael Rosenbaum made that show what it was, followed by Kristin Kreuk of course <3

After he left the show, I think in season 8, it went a bit downhill from there. Though Tom Welling was not bad as Clark Kent. It's just that you can't have Clark without Lex.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> My hair on the top looks terrible, with the MPB+AA.


 See what you mean dude.

I take it that you are taking propecia in prep for future treatments right

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

Yeah, i'm holding on to whatever I have now. Been doing that successfully for a couple of years now. I'm switching to Dutasteride at the end of this year.

I'm a full time college student, I won't afford any expensive treatments. If I could, I would have just done a FUT.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Yeah, i'm holding on to whatever I have now. Been doing that successfully for a couple of years now. I'm switching to Dutasteride at the end of this year.
> 
> I'm a full time college student, I won't afford any expensive treatments. If I could, I would have just done a FUT.


 Why are you switching to DUT if Fin is working

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

> Why are you switching to DUT if Fin is working


 Because all fin has done is stop the hair loss, look at my hair, it looks like sh*t. Maintaining hair would be good for you, you have a lot of hair. Don't let it get out of hand and wish you had get on fin earlier.

I need regrowth, not just something that would stop my hair loss. I need something that would give me back enough hair that I would stop wearing baseball caps to go outside. If Dut can give me just a little bit of regrowth, I would be happy at this stage of my hairloss.

----------


## chrisis

Hi yeahyeahyeah, sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I can't recommend finasteride on the basis of my terrible experience with it, I can only urge caution. Many guys seem to tolerate it well but, though I may be biased, the risk just doesn't seem worth it. It's Russian Roulette and if you are in the unlucky group who get side effects, it's a cruel experience.

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

From the pictures i've shown in this thread, what Norwood would you guys say I am? Ignore the AA spots and look at the MPB pattern and receded hairline and go from there please. Obviously the AA spots make it look worse.

----------


## 2020

NW 3.2?

edit: have you tried sulfazine for AA?

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

No, i've never heard of that.

Hmm, I googled NW3 in images..those guys look a lot more advanced than me, and they all seem to have a very strong M shape as a hairline.

----------


## 2020

> No, i've never heard of that.


 wth dude?

http://www.modernmedicine.com/modern.../detail/666211 *[Sulfasalazine may be effective in alopecia areata treatment]*




> Twenty-two of 26 patients completed the study. Overall, results showed that 68.2 percent (15 of 22) of patients responded to therapy *with 27.3 percent (six of 22 patients) and 40.9 percent (nine of 22 patients) demonstrating a complete hair re-growth and a partial hair re-growth, respectively.*


 AA has so many treatments... I would definitely try doing something 




> Hmm, I googled NW3 in images..those guys look a lot more advanced than me, and they all seem to have a very strong M shape as a hairline.


 mhm I don't know then... you look like a low NW3 to me

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

I've gotten corticosteroids injections, use topical clobetasol. The injections gave me partial regrowth, like half. But not full regrowth.

I'm not good at telling NW's, so maybe you're right, i'm a NW3. But what google images show as an NW3, is not what I see in my pictures. I don't have an M-shaped hairline.

Where can I get Sulfasalazine? My dermatologists have never told me about this treatment. Is it out for AA?

----------


## 2020

> Where can I get Sulfasalazine? My dermatologists have never told me about this treatment. Is it out for AA?


 doctor's don't know jack... why do people even go to them? Whatever they learned 20 years ago is outdated and irrelevant right now. 
As soon as technology comes up with a thing that "tests your blood" over the internet, doctors won't be needed at all.

anyways, sulfazine is also popular among arthritis people so I'm sure some online pharmacy must sell generics of it or something. Google -> buy sulfazine

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

About MPB, I learned that myself, doctor's don't know much about that.

About AA, the only treatments they have put on is, steroid injections, clobetasol ointment, and Protopic ointment. Only the injections partially worked.

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

I don't know about buying it from an online pharm. I put in search, in the pharmacies I do trust, and they don't have it.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

Dr ferundi (SP?) has got back to me 1800 - 2200 grafts to lower hairline.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

Apparently I have good donor area.

----------


## BaldinLikeBaldwin

that's a lot of grafts for a relatively small area...how many grafts can usually be taken from the average donor area, isn't it around 6-7k?

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

> Dr ferundi (SP?) has got back to me 1800 - 2200 grafts to lower hairline.


 How much will that cost?

So you only want to lower your hairline? Why not start from the back, in the vertex? It's gonna look weird when you start going thin on top. Start from the back and work your way down the hairline, with 2-3 HT's. If you can afford it of course.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> How much will that cost?
> 
> So you only want to lower your hairline? Why not start from the back, in the vertex? It's gonna look weird when you start going thin on top. Start from the back and work your way down the hairline, with 2-3 HT's. If you can afford it of course.


 Im not thinning behind the hairline.

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

Yeah, I know, that's why I said when you start thinning back there. If you have MPB and aren't taking fin, you'll thin in the vertex and middle eventually. But i'm sure you'll just get HT's there when it does happen right?

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Yeah, I know, that's why I said when you start thinning back there. If you have MPB and aren't taking fin, you'll thin in the vertex and middle eventually. But i'm sure you'll just get HT's there when it does happen right?


 Hopefully better treatments are out by then, plus - aren't there many cases where guys receed a bit and then it stops?

Pierce brosnan, Gary oldman, John terry, Jordan knight being examples of this?

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

> Hopefully better treatments are out by then, plus - aren't there many cases where guys receed a bit and then it stops?
> 
> Pierce brosnan, Gary oldman, John terry, Jordan knight being examples of this?


 With celebs, you can never tell if they're just that lucky to only have a matured hairline in to their 60s, or if they have done some kind of HT or have a wig.

If you replace the celebs you just mentioned, with Bob from right around the corner, or your next door neighbor John, or Bill from down the block...if these guys are hit with MPB, they will be hit entirely. But with celebs, you can never be too sure what they have done to their hair.

Good luck if you get the HT though.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> With celebs, you can never tell if they're just that lucky to only have a matured hairline in to their 60s, or if they have done some kind of HT or have a wig.
> 
> If you replace the celebs you just mentioned, with Bob from right around the corner, or your next door neighbor John, or Bill from down the block...if these guys are hit with MPB, they will be hit entirely. But with celebs, you can never be too sure what they have done to their hair.
> 
> Good luck if you get the HT though.


 Yeah, its hard to predict TBH.

But I think a poster here wrote earlier (ryan555) how his grandad matured to a NW2 in his 20s, and kept it till he died.

God, so frustrating.

TBH if I do get a HT, I will try a low dose of fin first.

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

> Yeah, its hard to predict TBH.
> 
> But I think a poster here wrote earlier (ryan555) how *his grandad matured to a NW2 in his 20s, and kept it till he died.*
> 
> God, so frustrating.
> 
> TBH if I do get a HT, I will try a low dose of fin first.


 Would that even be classified as MPB?

All MPB'ers start with a matured hairline. Then it gets worse in a year or two. Diffuse thinners I think thin all over? Without a receding hairline.

But then again all hairlines mature sooner or later. Unless you're John Cena, with his juvenile hairline. I guess a matured hairline can go two ways. You can keep going to a classic MPB, or you can keep that matured hairline.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Would that even be classified as MPB?
> 
> All MPB'ers start with a matured hairline. Then it gets worse in a year or two. Diffuse thinners I think thin all over? Without a receding hairline.
> 
> But then again all hairlines mature sooner or later. Unless you're John Cena, with his juvenile hairline. I guess a matured hairline can go two ways. You can keep going to a classic MPB, or you can keep that matured hairline.


 Sigh. God knows.

My hairline has been stable for 2 years without fin or anything. I know that much.

Older brother, same hairline, year older - same rate of 'balding'. His hair is still very very thick.

----------


## greatjob!

Yeah,
Imo getting a hair transplant in your case would be a big mistake. You have little to no visible loss right now. Getting a hair transplant to lower your hairline to NW 0 or 1 at a young age is risky. Sure there seems to be great treatments on the horizon but there is no guarantee that they will come to fruition. There is also no way to 100% tell what the future holds for you in terms of hair loss. If you end up experiencing aggressive hair loss in the future and none of the future treatments come to market you are going to have a strip of hair at your juvenile hairline and not enough grafts to cover your head. Granted that would be the worst case scenario, but the risk vs. reward in your case is not favorable. You have great hair right now.

To be frank with you, you would probably be better off spending time and money trying to figure out why you are so consumed by your hair loss. Most of the people on this forum have a reason to be so depressed, from looking at your pictures I don't see why you are freaking out. If I was you I wouldn't even know these forums existed because you have no need for them. I don't want to be a dick but come on man your hair is amazing. This thread is 14 pages long with you freaking out about being bald, and if I saw you on the street I wouldn't even consider you to have lost one hair. In fact I would look at you like I do all the other guys I see with great hair, with envy.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Yeah,
> Imo getting a hair transplant in your case would be a big mistake. You have little to no visible loss right now. Getting a hair transplant to lower your hairline to NW 0 or 1 at a young age is risky. Sure there seems to be great treatments on the horizon but there is no guarantee that they will come to fruition. There is also no way to 100&#37; tell what the future holds for you in terms of hair loss. If you end up experiencing aggressive hair loss in the future and none of the future treatments come to market you are going to have a strip of hair at your juvenile hairline and not enough grafts to cover your head. Granted that would be the worst case scenario, but the risk vs. reward in your case is not favorable. You have great hair right now.
> 
> To be frank with you, you would probably be better off spending time and money trying to figure out why you are so consumed by your hair loss. Most of the people on this forum have a reason to be so depressed, from looking at your pictures I don't see why you are freaking out. If I was you I wouldn't even know these forums existed because you have no need for them. I don't want to be a dick but come on man your hair is amazing. This thread is 14 pages long with you freaking out about being bald, and if I saw you on the street I wouldn't even consider you to have lost one hair. In fact I would look at you like I do all the other guys I see with great hair, with envy.


 Yeah I understand GreatJob!

I guess the problem with hairloss is exactly that, it is unpredictable. I have great hair right now, but who knows what the future holds. The fact that I have lost a little bit of hair, demonstrates one thing; I carry the hairloss gene. It just hasn't expressed itself aggressively...I have cousins, who have lost ZERO hairs at 30.

This is why I am depressed, because hair - no matter how minor the loss is, forms apart of your identity.

----------


## mpb47

> The vast majority of guys want to believe that this is a myth.  It isn't a myth.  This is one of those natural and normal male physical traits that differs from females like bigger hands, bigger feet, deeper voice, wider shoulders and so on.
> 
> Whether you wait to treat it or not is entirely up to you.  It is your decision alone and no one can or should make it for you.  You can only try to predict what will happen but you cannot know for sure what will happen.  You need to look at your male relatives from both sides of your family to try to determine if it is likely to get worse or not.


 Maybe this will help your case if you call it a secondary sexual trait like this Dr. mentions in his article. Sorry for the improper citation format:
 Sinclair -Male androgenetic alopecia
       JMHG Vol. 1, No. 4, pp. 319327, December 2004

"Androgenetic  alopecia,  also  known  as  com-
mon baldness, hereditary baldness and andro-
genic alopecia is the most common cause of
hair loss in men. It is distinctive due to the
pattern of progression of the scalp hair loss.
Genetically predisposed men initially develop
bitemporal  recession.  Next  they  develop  dif-
fuse frontal loss and thereafter a bald patch
over the vertex of the scalp. Ultimately all the
hair over the crown is lost. The pathogenesis
involves androgen-induced miniaturisation of
terminal  hairs  into  vellus  hairs  in  affected
regions of the scalp. Some degree of follicular
miniaturisation and consequential hair loss is
universal and is considered to be a physiologi-
cal  *secondary   sexual   characteristic*.


So I take this to mean that some loss of hair is supposed to happen just like beard growth. It may be the first sign of mpb but it is going to happen whether you end up with mpb later or not (most likely unfortunately IMHO)

Now as to how common mpb is , he went on to say this:

" Those with a strong predisposition bald in
 their teens, and those with a weak
 predisposition may not bald until
 they are in their 60s or 70s. *Fewer
 than 15% of men have little or no
 baldness by the age of 70* ."


So it sounds like mpb does follow most of the time at some point.
So Yea you should consider temple recession normal and it sounds like your family keeps their hair for a long time anyway. I can tell you firsthand that you can keep your mature hairline for a long time. I stayed  that way for nearly 20 years before my mpb started to appear.

So just monitor it with pics like the others have said and you should be fine.

----------


## nick9278

Dear Diary,

WHYYY MEEEE?!!?!

Yours truly,

yeahyeahyeah

----------


## Tracy C

> Some degree of follicular
> miniaturisation and consequential hair loss is
> universal and is considered to be a physiologi-
> cal  *secondary   sexual   characteristic*.
> 
> 
> *So I take this to mean that some loss of hair is supposed to happen just like beard growth.*


 That is 100% true.  However, some males do not experience this.  It is very rare though.  These who do not experience this are the anomaly, not the norm.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> That is 100&#37; true.  However, some males do not experience this.  It is very rare though.  These who do not experience this are the anomaly, not the norm.


 Its more common then you think.

Again, you are going to tell me to go outside and look.

I personally have 4 uncles with ZERO hairloss at 50. They dont take any meds.

Explain that?

I know others who have zero hairloss too.

The fact that a mature hairline often progresses to MPB, means that it IS IN FACT MPB

----------


## lilpauly

update http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t...rline-regrowth

mature hairline=mpb

----------


## 2020

> update http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t...rline-regrowth
> 
> mature hairline=mpb


 1) every single person on the internet and their mothers have seen your hairline pictures... why do you keep posting them again?
2) you're on steroids. MPB is at 10x speed.
3) you're using products that are unattainable for most
4) you take crappy pictures

why oh why!

----------


## lilpauly

> 1) every single person on the internet and their mothers have seen your hairline pictures... why do you keep posting them again?
> 2) you're on steroids. MPB is at 10x speed.
> 3) you're using products that are unattainable for most
> 4) you take crappy pictures
> 
> why oh why!


 2020 the photo clearly shows a hairline filling in! i just took the pic yesterday and im geting gret results from asc j9!. u on the hand have no photos showing your progress my photos might be crappy but they are better than no photos. 2020 u know the same sources as i do for every sinlge treatment i'm using.

----------


## Tracy C

> Explain that?


 If you would pay attention, you would know that I already have.  Several times.






> The fact that a mature hairline often progresses to MPB, means that it IS IN FACT MPB


 No it isn't.  Pull your head out.  If you need help with that, call a proctologist.






> mature hairline=mpb


 No it isn't.  The mature adult male hairline is natural and normal virilization.  Sometimes MPB does follow it eventually - years after the fact - but not in every case.  I order for it to _be_ MPB it would have to lead to MPB in _every_ case - but it doesn't.  Now get yourself to a real doctor before you do irreversible harm to yourself.

----------


## 25 going on 65

I'm not sure why it's now popular to say mature hairlines don't exist.
Most men will experience some degree of recession in their teens or 20s; since most men also eventually experience MPB, I guess people are mistaking one for the other.

We've all known men who lose hair at the corners/temples as young adults but then experience no further hair loss for decades--or ever, in some cases. That is not MPB. MPB is a progressive condition that doesn't magically stop on its own for 35 years (not even fin or dut will maintain your hair that long, though of course neither was around 35 years ago).

That said, something like 2/3 of us have MPB before our 40th birthday. So just because your hairline matures and stops for a long time, doesn't mean you're in the clear. Statistically, you will most likely start losing more hair, whether the MPB kicks in at 30 or 60.

----------


## Tracy C

> I'm not sure why it's now popular to say mature hairlines don't exist.


 It's mass denial.  Nothing more.  Just mass denial.  In most cases, this denial certainly isn't likely to cause much harm - but it also isn't doing anyone any good to keep denying it.  Some of these young men are unknowingly harming themselves by taking unnecessary risks with questionable treatments to try to combat it - because they deny the reality of it.  The day will come when most of these young men will regret doing what they've done to themselves - all because they were in denial about it.  It is much better to wake up to reality.

----------


## mpb47

> update http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t...rline-regrowth
> 
> mature hairline=mpb


  mature hairline = most likely mpb in future.

Will have to say it looks like you are getting your teenage hairline back.
You must have caught it very early and be on something really strong to pull that off.

----------


## Tracy C

> Will have to say it looks like you are getting your teenage hairline back.  You must have caught it very early and be on something really strong to pull that off.


 Have you seen the list of the treatments in his chemistry set?  He is going to be a gelding in no time - if he isn't already.

----------


## 25 going on 65

pauly is on fin+dut+keto+minox (and a bunch of experimental stuff). Heavy artillery for sure--even I would be paranoid about sides at that point, but I guess big risks can bring big rewards. He has apparently advanced his hairline which is very difficult to do with meds.

Another interesting fact about MPB vs. mature hairlines: some men retain their juvenile hairlines but experience MPB in the form of diffuse or crown loss. Talk about DNA playing a practical joke on you.

----------


## Tracy C

> Another interesting fact about MPB vs. mature hairlines: some men retain their juvenile hairlines but experience MPB in the form of diffuse or crown loss. Talk about DNA playing a practical joke on you.


 This is true.  They look almost exactly like they have female patterned hair loss.  This is proof that the All Mighty has a very odd sense of humor.  But at least this is still treatable with medications.

----------


## lilpauly

> mature hairline = most likely mpb in future.
> 
> Will have to say it looks like you are getting your teenage hairline back.
> You must have caught it very early and be on something really strong to pull that off.


 yes, slowly my receding hairline is filling in! i attack hairloss from every angle1 i declared war on my hairline!

----------


## mpb47

> Have you seen the list of the treatments in his chemistry set?  He is going to be a gelding in no time - if he isn't already.


 No but I figured anything that could basically reverse puberty like that must be something really really strong and maybe not too safe. Certainly experimental-proceed at your own risk kind of thing.

I just went and looked at my temple area. I lost the hair there so long ago that you can't really tell I ever had hair there. With light at the right angle you can see my skin in that area  is  shiny so you can kinda see a contrasting outline compared to the areas below it that never had hair. The skin is more white there as well. 

 Wonder if this is typical?

----------


## mpb47

> pauly is on fin+dut+keto+minox (and a bunch of experimental stuff). Heavy artillery for sure--even I would be paranoid about sides at that point, but I guess big risks can bring big rewards. He has apparently advanced his hairline which is very difficult to do with meds.
> 
> Another interesting fact about MPB vs. mature hairlines: some men retain their juvenile hairlines but experience MPB in the form of diffuse or crown loss. Talk about DNA playing a practical joke on you.


 A friend of a friend is a Dr in his late 50's who works next door to me. He also never lost his teenage hair. But about 2 years ago he started thinning in the back. Less than a year later it was gone.  For some reason I got the impression that drs don't care about mpb/use fin, but guess some do.

----------


## UK_

> Have you seen the list of the treatments in his chemistry set?  He is going to be a gelding in no time - if he isn't already.


 I agree, even if they cure mpb there's no way id want the hair line of a 14 year old.

----------


## lilpauly

> I agree, even if they cure mpb there's no way id want the hair line of a 14 year old.


 my regimen is VERY safe! in fact every treatment passed clinical studies.

----------


## greatjob!

> I agree, even if they cure mpb there's no way id want the hair line of a 14 year old.


 F-that I started loosing my hair when I was 14. I would like my 10 year old hairline back please, lol.

----------


## UK_

> my regimen is VERY safe! in fact every treatment passed clinical studies.


 I dont know your regimen - I replied previously to the wrong comment - I understand that RU is fairly safe, just very tough to get hold of, if there was a company selling RU id definately buy some.

----------


## WarLord

> We are all wasting our time. There are no viable treatments.
> 
> Propecia - your penis can get ****ed
> 
> Minoxidil - In many cases not effective.
> 
> The others are just shit.
> 
> Yesterday, I as out, a friend pointed out that my hair was growing in a triangle, then remarks, "oh you probably have lost a bit of hair at the temples" and then points at it.
> ...


 Man, are you sane? You don't use any treatment and you are whining here like if you were Norwood7!

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## yeahyeahyeah

> Man, are you sane? You don't use any treatment and you are whining here like if you were Norwood7!


 It's all relative.

Losing hair is shit regardless of norwood scale.

The fact that I would like to treat my MPB, only for the existing treatments to be shit.

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## WashedOut

> It's all relative.
> 
> Losing hair is shit regardless of norwood scale.
> 
> The fact that I would like to treat my MPB, only for the existing treatments to be shit.


 All you gotta do is hold on to what you got now until the better options come out. The only way to do that is the treatments you mentioned so it's your choice.

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## yeahyeahyeah

> All you gotta do is hold on to what you got now until the better options come out. The only way to do that is the treatments you mentioned so it's your choice.


 I will probably hold on for another 2 years without treatment.

But this is a piss poor industry. Forcing guys to play around with their hormones.

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## alex82

Agree wholely with yeahyeahyeah. Calling the available options "treatments" is bs. Finasteride has done absolutely nothing for me but thin my hair considerably and give me some pretty uncomfortable side effects. Lets just hope something better comes out soon. There must be so many people willing to give their all to fighting hairloss but sadly the options are pathetic  :Mad:

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## alex82

> yes, slowly my receding hairline is filling in! i attack hairloss from every angle1 i declared war on my hairline!


 Pauly would you mind sharing your regimen? seems so rare to hear results like this...

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## 2020

> Pauly would you mind sharing your regimen? seems so rare to hear results like this...


 oh god don't.... he's using like 50 products so you're not really sure what's working plus he's on steroids so it's confusing...

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## Tracy C

> my regimen is VERY safe!


 _NOT!!!_

If I were a guy, there is absolutely no way I would be doing what you are doing.  You are insane.

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## lilpauly

> Pauly would you mind sharing your regimen? seems so rare to hear results like this...


 my regimen: august2012 (quanitiy per week)
NEOSH101: 7 
OC000459: 7 
Equol: 7 
fin:7: 
dut:7 
proxiphen:2
hydrocortisone:7
cb-03-01: 2 
asc j9:7 
minox:7 
Bimatoprost:7 
AHK-CU: 7 
SWAMI RAMDEV PATANJALI KESH KANTI HAIR CLEANSER SHAMPOO,Herbal Chumket Hair Re-Growth Shampoorevita shampoo, , SBM Pure Leaf Juice Shampoo(Thiruthaali,swanson hair revitaling formula,msm, garlic pills, mens vitamin,bhringaraj oil Silica complex, glutathione, blck caster oil,RejuvePlex topical,garlic pills, aloe vera, almond oil, sesa oil,parachute ayur vedic hair oil.
 my goal is to attack hairloss from every anlge! this is my regimen going forward. i have had some success. i have gained .5 norwood and i have restored my hair density. my goal is to be a nw1 by october. in janurary i might get a fue. i recenlty added asc and the resu;ts have been good

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## 2020

equol??? Are you actually taking a synthetic equol?

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## lilpauly

> equol??? Are you actually taking a synthetic equol?


 Yes sir. I'm hoping to have it buy August

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## UK_

> Yes sir. I'm hoping to have it buy August


 Have you heard of saw palmetto? :Big Grin: 

Might wanna add it to your regimen :Big Grin:

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## 2020

> Yes sir. I'm hoping to have it buy August


 link to where you're buying it from?

yeah you do realize that if you become equol producer and consume soy regularly that would cure MPB 100%? Are you planning on becoming an equol producer at all?

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## lilpauly

> link to where you're buying it from?
> 
> yeah you do realize that if you become equol producer and consume soy regularly that would cure MPB 100%? Are you planning on becoming an equol producer at all?


 Smitty smiity is buying it. Ill find out for u

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## UK_

> Smitty smiity is buying it. Ill find out for u


 What roids do you take?

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## lilpauly

> What roids do you take?


 test e stacked with t-bol and anavar. no more cycles for a long time.

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## chrisis

> my regimen: august2012 (quanitiy per week)
> NEOSH101: 7 
> OC000459: 7 
> Equol: 7 
> fin:7: 
> dut:7 
> proxiphen:2
> hydrocortisone:7
> cb-03-01: 2 
> ...


 This is over the top.

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## BaldinLikeBaldwin

> This is over the top.


 he's reversed MPB whilst using steriods... it's his money to spend.

kitchen sink regime - MPB 1-0

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## yeahyeahyeah

> This is over the top.


 Still, what I don't understand, how does he find the time to follow that regime?

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## chrisis

> he's reversed MPB whilst using steriods... it's his money to spend.
> 
> kitchen sink regime - MPB 1-0


 At what cost? He's consuming more drugs and herbs, many of them with unknown consequences alone, let alone synergistically.




> Still, what I don't understand, how does he find the time to follow that regime?


 Who knows. Maybe he's just trolling.

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## clandestine

> Who knows. Maybe he's just trolling.


 Seen him over at HLH, different username. Pretty sure his regimine claims are legit.

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## lilpauly

> At what cost? He's consuming more drugs and herbs, many of them with unknown consequences alone, let alone synergistically.
> 
> 
> 
> Who knows. Maybe he's just trolling.


 My regimen cost me 1400 dollars for the experimental drugs! Small price to pay for looking 100% better! I mix couple treatments I apply 4 topicals a day. I only apply experimental treatments to the hairline.

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## UK_

> I wouldnt if I were you.


 Because hair loss will seem a breeze in the park when you encounter the sides of propecia.

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## UK_

> My regimen cost me 1400 dollars for the experimental drugs! Small price to pay for looking 100&#37; better! I mix couple treatments I apply 4 topicals a day. I only apply experimental treatments to the hairline.


 Tbh, there's probably only two drugs in your arsenal that are actually working, which are Fin and Minox, the two that are FDA approved, you cant prove that any of the other treatments are working unfortunately.

By taking all the steroids, the finasteride, the unapproved drugs, I beg wonder what damage you're doing to your endocrine system, you are almost guaranteed to be heading for a massive endocrinal crash - your body will eventually stop regulating 'the system' as it once did being as though it has a newly acquired manager in place, you may find when you come off these drugs - THAT'S when the problems will start.

As a side, the steroids, the concerns about hair loss, me thinks an aura of insecurity exists here?

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## NotBelievingIt

To be THAT obsessed with hair needs therapy.

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## lilpauly

> Tbh, there's probably only two drugs in your arsenal that are actually working, which are Fin and Minox, the two that are FDA approved, you cant prove that any of the other treatments are working unfortunately.
> 
> By taking all the steroids, the finasteride, the unapproved drugs, I beg wonder what damage you're doing to your endocrine system, you are almost guaranteed to be heading for a massive endocrinal crash - your body will eventually stop regulating 'the system' as it once did being as though it has a newly acquired manager in place, you may find when you come off these drugs - THAT'S when the problems will start.
> 
> As a side, the steroids, the concerns about hair loss, me thinks an aura of insecurity exists here?


 That's y I'm cutting back with steroid cycles. Hairloss treatments are safe.

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## 2020

> That's y I'm cutting back with steroid cycles. Hairloss treatments are safe.


 hey so what's happening with equol? That shit is probably better than DUT with ZERO side effects

----------


## lilpauly

> hey so what's happening with equol? That shit is probably better than DUT with ZERO side effects


 We are moving forward with equal. Smitty smitty is looking for the best possible price. It's not expensive

----------


## 2020

> We are moving forward with equal. Smitty smitty is looking for the best possible price. It's not expensive


 will you be buying it from some lab or is there some company that already manufactures it?

It would seriously be worth getting it made cheaply especially since it's probably more effective than fin/dut

----------


## lilpauly

> will you be buying it from some lab or is there some company that already manufactures it?
> 
> It would seriously be worth getting it made cheaply especially since it's probably more effective than fin/dut


 I don't know the details but smitty smitty would.

----------


## UK_

> We are moving forward with equal. Smitty smitty is looking for the best possible price. It's not expensive


 Lol are they?  Google the term "propecia crash" as I beg to differ.

----------


## UK_

> hey so what's happening with equol? That shit is probably better than DUT with ZERO side effects


 In what manner is it 'better than DUT'?  At blocking DHT?  If that's the case, then why would we not see similar side effects?  Does Equol replace the removed DHT with another alien androgen or something?

----------


## 2020

> In what manner is it 'better than DUT'?  At blocking DHT?  If that's the case, then why would we not see similar side effects?  Does Equol replace the removed DHT with another alien androgen or something?


 equol simply attaches to DHT and neutralizes it without touching 5AR meaning no homeostasis so it will never wear off

----------


## Tracy C

> That's y I'm cutting back with steroid cycles. Hairloss treatments are safe.


 _Your_ hair loss treatment regimen is not safe.  You are insane.

----------


## lilpauly

> _Your_ hair loss treatment regimen is not safe.  You are insane.


 whats not safe in my regimen tracy?

----------


## 25 going on 65

> Because hair loss will seem a breeze in the park when you encounter the sides of propecia.


 Can I ask what makes you think he is particularly prone to sides?

----------


## BaldinLikeBaldwin

Lot of ill will and hate towards people who have had success with fin and experimental treatments on this forum...

jealousy?  :Confused:

----------


## KeepHoping

lilpauly, I am a diffuse thinner with a bit of recession at the hairline but my hairline is pretty low overall, I'd like to grow that back first before focusing on the rest however I cannot dedicate myself to that big of a regiment, seems like it's a bit too much time and money for me.  What would you say is the most important factor of the regiment to get regrowth?  I'm on Fin already BTW and it seems to have stopped my loss for the time being. Also how did you get OC000459 and Neosh101!?

----------


## lilpauly

> lilpauly, I am a diffuse thinner with a bit of recession at the hairline but my hairline is pretty low overall, I'd like to grow that back first before focusing on the rest however I cannot dedicate myself to that big of a regiment, seems like it's a bit too much time and money for me.  What would you say is the most important factor of the regiment to get regrowth?  I'm on Fin already BTW and it seems to have stopped my loss for the time being. Also how did you get OC000459 and Neosh101!?


 bro psi440 is the best hairloss treatment. i'm looking for a source for it! one memener in in the germany forum sveral years ago 

Hey guys, looks like the group of germans got PSI and are now using it. They're up to the 12th day and  they report vellous all the way to his teen age hairline, and terminal hairs in areas of recession.
 Those of you who have done your homework regarding this peptide know that it is entirely possible. Those who haven't, do so now.

----------


## lilpauly

also look into ru in the k b solution.

----------


## KeepHoping

Please keep me posted lilPauly, would love to try something like this as I still have most of my hair it's just thinning.

----------


## greatjob!

> bro psi440 is the best hairloss treatment. i'm looking for a source for it! one memener in in the germany forum sveral years ago 
> 
> Hey guys, looks like the group of germans got PSI and are now using it. They're up to the 12th day and  they report vellous all the way to his teen age hairline, and terminal hairs in areas of recession.
>  Those of you who have done your homework regarding this peptide know that it is entirely possible. Those who haven't, do so now.


 pauly do you have any links to the threads or forums these guys are updating on? I would love to follow their progress. neosh 101 and psi 440 are the same thing correct?

----------


## KeepHoping

How can I get my hands on some PSI 440?

----------

