# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments >  Snake oil?

## Herbaliser

I've almost only seen negative responses regarding natural "snake oil" treatments.
How many of you have actually tried these natural remedies as long as the medical "FDA" approved treatments? 
The industry gains enormous amount of money due to peoples fear of loosing hair, and therefore the desperation to fit in today's stereotypical appearance.
I´t would be harsh for the industry if there is a natural (approved) way to solve it, and also feel good as a bonus.
My hair loss stopped and new hair is growing with natural ingredients as posted in other posts.

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## epipapilla

Hi, thanks for your post.

Do you have any before and after pictures that show your hair regrowth which you say has resulted from using herbal remedies?

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## Trenblastoise

How would something natural solve it? We know it is caused by genetics and hormones.

And if there were something natural that gets discovered that would be a cure, it would get massive attention because it could back up its claims.

The time to believe something is when it has been demonstrated to be true. Make a study, get it peer reviewed, have the results reproduced and confirmed independently.

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## warner8

what are you using?




> I've almost only seen negative responses regarding natural "snake oil" treatments.
> How many of you have actually tried these natural remedies as long as the medical "FDA" approved treatments? 
> The industry gains enormous amount of money due to peoples fear of loosing hair, and therefore the desperation to fit in today's stereotypical appearance.
> I´t would be harsh for the industry if there is a natural (approved) way to solve it, and also feel good as a bonus.
> My hair loss stopped and new hair is growing with natural ingredients as posted in other posts.

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## epipapilla

I think he is using this http://www.ivlproducts.com/Health-Li...ent-Superfood/

and this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfLkf5hn9aM

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## Herbaliser

We bought a slow juicer recently for health beneficial reasons, and many of the green recipes stated to be good for the hair also. 
I started the green tea coconut treatment mostly for experimental reasons, aside my juicing and the chlorella as a boost.
The response was surprisingly quick since I or rather my wife noticed new hair on my scalp inside 6 weeks.
I have been suffering with hair loss a long time (about 15 years) and i tried minoxidil many years ago but the side effects got me, so i gave up.
I fully understand the skepticism regarding natural treatments, since there are no real evidence or proof.
Pictures are coming soon as i took a couple of of days ago, and i don´t have any good old pictures since i gave up my hair loss initially.
Since the hair grow is quiet rapid, i´m going to put pictures here inside two weeks so you can see my progress.
Three pictures from the same angle to justify it.

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## Herbaliser

Tried to take a close up picture of my crown.
Hard to catch the baby hair that is sprouting, but quiet many of them already outgrows my sleepy darker hair.
The new hair growing, is a lot blonder that i used to have before.
I also gained a lot on my temple area, and i´m going to wait a couple of weeks for them to thicken more and show as a reference to the one i took a couple of days ago.

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## warner8

whats the recipe? can u list it for us




> Tried to take a close up picture of my crown.
> Hard to catch the baby hair that is sprouting, but quiet many of them already outgrows my sleepy darker hair.
> The new hair growing, is a lot blonder that i used to have before.
> I also gained a lot on my temple area, and i´m going to wait a couple of weeks for them to thicken more and show as a reference to the one i took a couple of days ago.

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## warner8

recipe:


This is a wonderful smelling creamy All natural Coconut Shampoo focused to help stop Thinning Hair! I have used this on myself and others and have seen improvements with hair growth in thinning areas within 1- 2 months. 
Ingredients:
Castile soap- 4-5 tsp, 1 Green tea bag, Coconut milk 3 tsp, Olive oil- 3 tsp, Emu oil 1 tsp,
Lavendar oil 1 tsp, Castor oil1 tsp, Virgin Coconut oil 2-5 tsp.

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## WanderingOracle

I wasted about a year and a half, sprinkling magical pixie dust on my hair, and it continued to fall out in clumps. I lost about 2/3 altogether.
Then, I actually learned about how hair loss works, and realized that DHT inhibition(Propecia in my case) was literally the only way to prevent hair loss.

The most you could even hope to get from natural topicals, or ingestibles, is anti-inflamation. Which Nizoral and Piroctone Olamine(both shampoos) will already handle. 

You can also see a very temporary boost from things like Biotin. The problem is, it doesn't actually prevent your hairs from dying. It just makes your dying hairs grow faster, temporarily covering the problem(much like Minox).

If used with something to block or inhibit DHT, then it can be a useful supplement. But in the absence of DHT prevention, you will lose your hair.

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## Herbaliser

Some of the ingredients blocks the DHT like the green tea, therefore the effectiveness (not medically proven) like all natural ingredients.
Generations in my family suffers from hair loss and i almost gave up , but this works for me.
The emu oil is also important helps the ingredients to penetrate faster to your skin.

I use 2 tsp chlorella powder in water every morning on an empty stomach instead of pills, because you need at least 6-10 pills to gain the same benefit.
Remember to clean the scalp with tea tree oil before (anti-bacterial), and i use a water moist cotton pad and about 5 drops tea tree oil.
I highly recommend to use the chlorella also, due to it´s amount of essential vitamins and minerals.

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## WanderingOracle

> Some of the ingredients blocks the DHT like the green tea, therefore the effectiveness (not medically proven) like all natural ingredients.


 Green Tea has such a minimal impact on DHT, it won't prevent hair loss. At best, it will slow it down. Green Tea reduces DHT by %20. It may even cut your hair loss in half. But you will still go bald.




> The emu oil is also important helps the ingredients to penetrate faster to your skin.


 Again, this is one of the problems with the natural approach. The natural stuff actually DOES grow a few more hairs. But they do nothing to prevent DHT related death. So you boost hair growth for a short time, all the while, DHT is killing every hair on your entire head.
Emu Oil is almost like a weak Minox. It will wake a few sleeping hair follicles up. But it does nothing to prevent DHT related death. Those newly woken hairs will eventually suffer DHT related death, as will other hairs that are already awake.

Add Minox, RU, Nizoral, piroctone olamine, Emu Oil, Green Tea, Taurine, ACV. All of these will help. But with the exception of Nizoral and Green Tea, do nothing for DHT. And neither of them, do enough. Saw Pal is no alternative. It doesn't do enough(or anything) for most men.

But these things have to be coupled with a DHT blocker like Propecia, Fin, or Dur. Failing to do this, will result in long-term hair loss.

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## Herbaliser

Do you have a scientific proof? Neither do i since there is no money involved regarding natural treatments.
As stated before the industry feeds on peoples desperation with nice white suits to tell people, we have a solution for your hair loss to get your self confidence back.

This remedy helped me and probably a lot more people, but is not FDA approved and therefore not valid.

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## WanderingOracle

I've read enough of these threads, over the past few years educating myself.
Nearly every natural dude has one thing in common. They all say they lost their hair on natural products.
All of them.

I have yet to find ONE dude, who kept his hair on a natural treatment, for ten years. 10+ year Propecia users with hair are east to find.

I understand that you want to fight the power. Pharmaceutical companies are bad, and the FDA is keeping the little guy down! But that has nothing to do with hair loss. 

Saying there is no scientific study to prove natty doesn't work, is illogical. There is also no scientific study that proves that drinking a whole 2 liter of Fanta every day, won't prevent hair loss.
I suppose if I suggested this, you'd go try it?
We know how hair loss works. The things you're suggesting, cannot prevent hair loss, long-term.

You're leading guys down a bad path. And you will wake up to this in the near future, with less hair. You are not a special snowflake, nor have you found hidden wisdom, that will save everyone. People have been taking what you take, for decades, and all of them lost their hair.

Herbal medicine is actually MORE expensive than the pharm grade stuff. You know how much I spent on Fin this year? $6.
I got a one month supply, but taking it at 0.25 dose every other day, means it will last for 3 years.

Herbal medicine is every bit as commercialized pharmaceuticals. They are still selling you stuff. And the stuff they sell, is mostly ineffective. You tell me the natural treatment that could give me the results I got from $6 of "big phrama" products, that would give me equal results?

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## Herbaliser

We know how hair loss works?
This remedy works for me, and the side effects that many suffers from is actually the opposite with this treatment.
The herbal (medicine?) is actually home made and none commercialized.
Regards, Snowflake

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## epipapilla

> Do you have a scientific proof? Neither do i since there is no money involved regarding natural treatments.
> As stated before the industry feeds on peoples desperation with nice white suits to tell people, we have a solution for your hair loss to get your self confidence back.
> 
> This remedy helped me and probably a lot more people, but is not FDA approved and therefore not valid.


 There are many natural cures out there and most drugs are developed from a natural source in the first place.

Also, the FDA is not the overseer of the World's health! I live in the EU and the FDA has no jurisdiction over any medical treatment in the EU. I am sick and tired of people referring to FDA approval like it is some form of Gold Standard for the World, it isn't!! The FDA has approved many dangerous and lethal drugs which made pharmaceutical companies billions of Dollars at the expense of real human lives. 

Thank you for posting about your hair regrowth with natural solutions, not everyone is fixated on taking a drug for every ailment they get.

Let the Americans care about the FDA, it has nothing to do with any other nation!

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## Herbaliser

I think my approach is quiet modest regarding trying something different.
I´m not trying to convince or give people false hope with a snake oil treatment, it´s an alternative method when the drugs gives side effects.
As mentioned by epipapilla regarding pharmaceutical companies, and there gain at our expense is false hope in my opinion because your stuck with a drug treatment.

As an example i used to have severe pollen allergy and i for that i had to take pills, eye drops and nose spray every day.
Then i read about a person that used mussel oil instead with good result, and it worked perfect for me.
My point is that there is a lot of natural ingredients, that our bodies digests with effective results.
I think our bodies react more than we think to artificial ingredients, and i´m not a tree hugger but i stay away from processed food for example, that also plays a part in our general health that also effects the hair. 
At the end this is only my opinion and i´m not trying to convert people to think likewise.

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## warner8

mussel oil? can you tell me more about it please. 




> I think my approach is quiet modest regarding trying something different.
> I´m not trying to convince or give people false hope with a snake oil treatment, it´s an alternative method when the drugs gives side effects.
> As mentioned by epipapilla regarding pharmaceutical companies, and there gain at our expense is false hope in my opinion because your stuck with a drug treatment.
> 
> As an example i used to have severe pollen allergy and i for that i had to take pills, eye drops and nose spray every day.
> Then i read about a person that used mussel oil instead with good result, and it worked perfect for me.
> My point is that there is a lot of natural ingredients, that our bodies digests with effective results.
> I think our bodies react more than we think to artificial ingredients, and i´m not a tree hugger but i stay away from processed food for example, that also plays a part in our general health that also effects the hair. 
> At the end this is only my opinion and i´m not trying to convert people to think likewise.

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## Herbaliser

http://kurera.se/musselolja-istallet-for-mediciner-2/ (Lyprinol)
Unfortunately it´s in Swedish but you can use google translate to get a picture. 
Use the dosage as described on the package and for best results a month before the pollen season begins.
It helps big time also during the season also, and it was a huge relief for me as my tears, itch, and nose run stopped.
You can probably find it close to your destination.

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## Ostash

> Green Tea has such a minimal impact on DHT, it won't prevent hair loss. At best, it will slow it down. Green Tea reduces DHT by %20. It may even cut your hair loss in half. But you will still go bald.
> 
> Again, this is one of the problems with the natural approach. The natural stuff actually DOES grow a few more hairs. But they do nothing to prevent DHT related death. So you boost hair growth for a short time, all the while, DHT is killing every hair on your entire head.
> Emu Oil is almost like a weak Minox. It will wake a few sleeping hair follicles up. But it does nothing to prevent DHT related death. Those newly woken hairs will eventually suffer DHT related death, as will other hairs that are already awake.
> 
> Add Minox, RU, Nizoral, piroctone olamine, Emu Oil, Green Tea, Taurine, ACV. All of these will help. But with the exception of Nizoral and Green Tea, do nothing for DHT. And neither of them, do enough. Saw Pal is no alternative. It doesn't do enough(or anything) for most men.
> 
> But these things have to be coupled with a DHT blocker like Propecia, Fin, or Dur. Failing to do this, will result in long-term hair loss.


 how does green tea react when you drink it?

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## warner8

how long have you been on the mussel oil? i read its an anti inflammatory agent much like fish oil, so how does it help with allergies exactly? the studies spoke about it helping with joint pain/arthritis




> http://kurera.se/musselolja-istallet-for-mediciner-2/ (Lyprinol)
> Unfortunately it´s in Swedish but you can use google translate to get a picture. 
> Use the dosage as described on the package and for best results a month before the pollen season begins.
> It helps big time also during the season also, and it was a huge relief for me as my tears, itch, and nose run stopped.
> You can probably find it close to your destination.

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## Herbaliser

About three years.
But i only use half of the recommended dosage now, since i got a lot better.
Probably there are no major studies made why it helps allergies and asthma, as you mentioned it´s anti inflammatory and it clears the airway.

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## Pboy101

These snake oils with pseudo-science as backup to their claims should not be trusted.  We know the science behind how hair loss works and using an anti-androgen such as finasteride or dustasteride is the only way to keep hair loss at bay.  Only after you have given these meds a try and find them not suitable because of side effects, then you go to the unproven, "natural vitamins and minerals" bullshyt because by that point you have nothing to lose.  For 98% of us, however, fin or dut will be enough to stop the loss.  To suggest these unproven and usually very expensive alternatives as primary or first lines of defense is ridiculous.

If this stuff really worked, then the person who discovers it will have no issue going through the laborious task of getting it approved for hair loss because it would be a gold mine that will last for hundreds of years.

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## Notcoolanymore

> If this stuff really worked, then the person who discovers it will have no issue going through the laborious task of getting it approved for hair loss because it would be a gold mine that will last for hundreds of years.


 Exactly.  They could create their own "all natural" cure and make millions.  It is what it is.  There is NO NATURAL CURE for hair loss.  It is not like people haven't been searching for a natural cure, they have, for many years.

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## Herbaliser

There has been thousands of natural hair loss cures like you mention with skeptical or non results.
There will either be valid natural hair loss treatment due to the ingredients, because there is no legitimate scientific evidence to support it´s efficacy.
I was also skeptical regarding the before and after videos, but i gave it a shot anyway.

I believe that the oral intake plays a big part for hair loss.
People that eat or juice a lot greens for health benefit, don't pay that much attention to the hair since there is no label confirming the benefits.
There are many cases though with aha experience that had hair issues before.
Chlorella for example has shown really good results (at least they claim so) and combining these with the snake oil gave me aha experience, i feel a nice kick in the head when i drink them.

I someone dares or wants to try it, the only side effects are a major energy boost, good base for Thai food and a nice collection of moisturizing skin care oils.
This is my experience and i´m not trying to convince anybody.
I took pictures a week ago as reference and i´m going to post soon the development.

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## Herbaliser

> These snake oils with pseudo-science as backup to their claims should not be trusted.  We know the science behind how hair loss works and using an anti-androgen such as finasteride or dustasteride is the only way to keep hair loss at bay.  Only after you have given these meds a try and find them not suitable because of side effects, then you go to the unproven, "natural vitamins and minerals" bullshyt because by that point you have nothing to lose.  For 98% of us, however, fin or dut will be enough to stop the loss.  To suggest these unproven and usually very expensive alternatives as primary or first lines of defense is ridiculous.
> 
> If this stuff really worked, then the person who discovers it will have no issue going through the laborious task of getting it approved for hair loss because it would be a gold mine that will last for hundreds of years.


 I´m just amazed by some of the aggressive posts, when i approach in a modest way as a alternative method.
I know your (as you mentioned us Fin users) drugs are FDA approved and therefore valid and only minor 2% with side effects, and those 2% are probably only placebo, because of all the stupid horror stories.  http://www.drugwatch.com/dangerous-drugs.php

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## Seuxin

Natural is bullshit for fighting MPB.....

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## burtandernie

If you think supplements and diet can stop MPB there were plenty of guys on the immortal hair program that im sure lost plenty of hair over the years going the route since that is what he pushed for years on hair loss regrowth forums. I wouldnt say its impossible it could work just that I have never seen much evidence or before/after where it made a big difference.
Everyone in prison eats the same crap for decades and hair loss is there and varied just like it is here with people eating much healthier diets. Its just hard for me to believe but anything is possible.

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## Pboy101

> I´m just amazed by some of the aggressive posts, when i approach in a modest way as a alternative method.
> I know your (as you mentioned us Fin users) drugs are FDA approved and therefore valid and only minor 2% with side effects, and those 2% are probably only placebo, because of all the stupid horror stories.  http://www.drugwatch.com/dangerous-drugs.php


 The reason why we don't trust unproven "natural" remedies is because they don't have a good track record of success.  You say that the drug companies are the ones making money off of fear, but they have a large amount of scientific research behind their claims.  These snake oil salesmen on the other hand, prey upon the fear of side effects that are stated by the drug companies and jump in with their "natural vitamins and minerals" BS with no scientific backing and sell them to you for $50 per bottle per month or whatever.  

Now I understand that you are probably not trying to sell or advertise anything, but do respect our time because for hair loss sufferers, time = hair.  If you really believe what you are promoting, then take the effort to document the process and let us know when you have some decent before and after pictures to show.  One picture of a balding head with no time stamp and then a lot of words isn't going to convince anybody, just saying.

By the way, there are lawsuits against every single drug out there, even the simple everyday ones like tylenol and ibuprofen.  It is a rather lucrative way of making money because these people who bring forth the claims lose practically nothing if they lose the case and win millions if they win.  I believe there are risks to taking every medicine, albeit very very small risks, but unless you wanna go all natural and go back 1000 years to eating herbs, plants, and prayers, I think we should trust our modern day science and medicine.

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## Herbaliser

> The reason why we don't trust unproven "natural" remedies is because they don't have a good track record of success.  You say that the drug companies are the ones making money off of fear, but they have a large amount of scientific research behind their claims.  These snake oil salesmen on the other hand, prey upon the fear of side effects that are stated by the drug companies and jump in with their "natural vitamins and minerals" BS with no scientific backing and sell them to you for $50 per bottle per month or whatever.  
> 
> Now I understand that you are probably not trying to sell or advertise anything, but do respect our time because for hair loss sufferers, time = hair.  If you really believe what you are promoting, then take the effort to document the process and let us know when you have some decent before and after pictures to show.  One picture of a balding head with no time stamp and then a lot of words isn't going to convince anybody, just saying.
> 
> By the way, there are lawsuits against every single drug out there, even the simple everyday ones like tylenol and ibuprofen.  It is a rather lucrative way of making money because these people who bring forth the claims lose practically nothing if they lose the case and win millions if they win.  I believe there are risks to taking every medicine, albeit very very small risks, but unless you wanna go all natural and go back 1000 years to eating herbs, plants, and prayers, I think we should trust our modern day science and medicine.


 Your last sentences proves my point.
For me hair loss is not science.

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## Trenblastoise

> Your last sentences proves my point.
> For me hair loss is not science.


 Not that I speak for the individual you just quoted. But for most users certainly(I would hope) we are interested in what can be *demonstrated to work*.


So if you got some ideas that does not work, you will not be able to demonstrate that they do work through scientific studies and get them independently verified.


The reason I surely hope most of the users here go with science, is because *science works.* It is demonstrable, and our best tool. To toss out science is to toss out the best ideas every made by humankind and is highly irrational, it will lead to superstition, like taking snake oil salesmen on face value/Faith (*Faith*:_A firm, stoic, and sacred conviction which is both adopted and maintained independent of physical evidence or logical proof_.) . At best maybe it works somewhat(In which case it can be demonstrated) or does nothing, worst case it can damages you. 

And that's why we get stuff tested first. Like vaccines and other sorts of medication. I do want to point out that I find it extraordinary to have someone admit openly that they don't think hair loss is science. Perhaps you don't know what science is? I find it so utterly remarkable that someone can be so irrational with so much information available at their fingertips. 

*Science* is defined as:

_the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment._

Or:

_The use of evidence to construct testable explanations and predictions of natural phenomena, as well as the knolwedge generated through this process._


Doesn't this makes sense to you? This is how we figured out electricity, medication, biology, physics, pretty much all our knowledge that I can think of, well formulated into* scientific theories:*


_A theory is a unifying principle that explains a body of experimental observations and the laws that are based on them.
Theories can also be used to predict related phenomena, so theories are constantly being tested._

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## Herbaliser

> Not that I speak for the individual you just quoted. But for most users certainly(I would hope) we are interested in what can be *demonstrated to work*.
> 
> 
> So if you got some ideas that does not work, you will not be able to demonstrate that they do work through scientific studies and get them independently verified.
> 
> 
> The reason I surely hope most of the users here go with science, is because *science works.* It is demonstrable, and our best tool. To toss out science is to toss out the best ideas every made by humankind and is highly irrational, it will lead to superstition, like taking snake oil salesmen on face value/Faith (*Faith*:_A firm, stoic, and sacred conviction which is both adopted and maintained independent of physical evidence or logical proof_.) . At best maybe it works somewhat(In which case it can be demonstrated) or does nothing, worst case it can damages you. 
> 
> And that's why we get stuff tested first. Like vaccines and other sorts of medication. I do want to point out that I find it extraordinary to have someone admit openly that they don't think hair loss is science. Perhaps you don't know what science is? I find it so utterly remarkable that someone can be so irrational with so much information available at their fingertips. 
> ...


 Probably you didn't read my other posts.
For me, no hair loss is not science because hair loss suddenly became science for beneficial reasons (do you get my point?)
Thank you for clearing the definition of science, now i´m as patronizing as you are and at the same level.

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## Pboy101

Science is observable, repeatable, and/or testable, falsifiable, and explains our world in a natural (instead of supernatural) way.  Science can be applied to anything that exhibits these characteristics; it's not a choice of the subject whether or not it can be considered science.  You are a certified nut if you somehow consider our knowledge of hair loss not science.  Regardless, I do believe most people are sane enough to put their trust in what can be shown to work.  Good luck getting anybody to believe you without scientific backing.

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## Herbaliser

> Science is observable, repeatable, and/or testable, falsifiable, and explains our world in a natural (instead of supernatural) way.  Science can be applied to anything that exhibits these characteristics; it's not a choice of the subject whether or not it can be considered science.  You are a certified nut if you somehow consider our knowledge of hair loss not science.  Regardless, I do believe most people are sane enough to put their trust in what can be shown to work.  Good luck getting anybody to believe you without scientific backing.


 The thing is i´m not trying to convince anybody like you are.
And now you begin with sarcasm also, well that tells a lot and it would be horrifying for you if a natural treatment works.

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## Guinny Pig

Complete Newbie here, but I have to say that I agree and disagree. A lot of scientific discoveries have come from or mirror observations of nature, like aspirin for example. To quote wikipedia:

"Plant extracts, including willow bark and spiraea, of which salicylic acid was the active ingredient, had been known to help alleviate headaches, pains, and fevers since antiquity. The father of modern medicine, Hippocrates (circa 460 – 377 BC), left historical records describing the use of powder made from the bark and leaves of the willow tree to help these symptoms"

So everything natural isn't bad. But just saying "Hey, this works, try it!" is also wrong. You know you have something, so why not try to start measuring and recording results? I'm trying to do the same thing with S-equol in my thread (could really use some support though):

https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...finitive-proof

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## Herbaliser

> Complete Newbie here, but I have to say that I agree and disagree. A lot of scientific discoveries have come from or mirror observations of nature, like aspirin for example. To quote wikipedia:
> 
> "Plant extracts, including willow bark and spiraea, of which salicylic acid was the active ingredient, had been known to help alleviate headaches, pains, and fevers since antiquity. The father of modern medicine, Hippocrates (circa 460 – 377 BC), left historical records describing the use of powder made from the bark and leaves of the willow tree to help these symptoms"
> 
> So everything natural isn't bad. But just saying "Hey, this works, try it!" is also wrong. You know you have something, so why not try to start measuring and recording results? I'm trying to do the same thing with S-equol in my thread (could really use some support though):
> 
> https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...finitive-proof


 Thank you for sharing yours.
I have posted many times that i´m going put pictures as this was mostly accidental (experimental), because of my diet change.
Started a new thread regarding this (start your own topic) make your own conclusion.

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## Herbaliser

And by the way i said this works for me.

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## VegetaDBZ

Natural treatments are shit unless one has deficiency in something.

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## Guinny Pig

Not necessarily. "Natural" should just mean that it's found in nature and that you can get it without having to synthesize it, like vitamins. Not saying it should be as potent as if it was synthesized or boosted in a lab, just that it's naturally occurring. 

Maybe my definition is wrong...

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## epipapilla

> You are a certified nut if you somehow consider our knowledge of hair loss not science.  Regardless, I do believe most people are sane enough to put their trust in what can be shown to work.  Good luck getting anybody to believe you without scientific backing.


 This statement shows that you are indeed very naive because from a scientific prospective, not much is actually known about human hair loss. I don't need to get into a argument with you or anyone else about this, but to accuse him or to suggest that he is a "certified nut" is totally out of order!

If science is so good and has all the answers, let's see pictures of your hair which you have regrown due to "science". Yep, I guessed correctly, you are either too embarrassed or too scared to post pictures of your own hair loss (or hair regrowth, which I doubt you have anyway....)

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## epipapilla

@ Pboy101,

I see that you wrote on 16 December 2014 in another thread:




> Using anything that's unproven will eventually lead to snake oil results as history indicates. We know how hair loss works and that is the conversion of T --> DHT in your body and DHT weakens hair follical until they are virtually nonexistent. Without an antiandrogen like finasteride/dustasteride to combat this process, the battle for hair loss will eventually be lost. Please don't be a fool and fall for the "all natural vitamins and minerals" bullshit. Learn the science behind it and if there's no antiandrogen properties, it's probably useless. I would recommend getting a second look into finasteride because it's one of two products that are FDA approved for hair loss. Side effects can happen but it's very rare. I (and many others on this forum) have been on finasteride for the past 7 months and there are very little to no sides to speak of. Whatever you do, please do your research first and don't fall for expensive snake oil....


 So, if you have continued with using Finasteride thus far then you should be at or near the 1 year mark of taking this FDA approved hair loss treatment, which is the time many people say that you should start seeing results. So, let's see pictures of your hair regrowth that you have obtained due to "science"!

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## Herbaliser

> This statement shows that you are indeed very naive because from a scientific prospective, not much is actually known about human hair loss. I don't need to get into a argument with you or anyone else about this, but to accuse him or to suggest that he is a "certified nut" is totally out of order!
> 
> If science is so good and has all the answers, let's see pictures of your hair which you have regrown due to "science". Yep, I guessed correctly, you are either too embarrassed or too scared to post pictures of your own hair loss (or hair regrowth, which I doubt you have anyway....)


 My pictures comes next week.
Have to let the new born to thicken a little for more dramatic effect (only 2 weeks between the pictures)
By fluke actually i discovered that the food intake was the key.
But it will never be scientifically approved because there is no money gain.

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## Herbaliser

> This statement shows that you are indeed very naive because from a scientific prospective, not much is actually known about human hair loss. I don't need to get into a argument with you or anyone else about this, but to accuse him or to suggest that he is a "certified nut" is totally out of order!
> 
> If science is so good and has all the answers, let's see pictures of your hair which you have regrown due to "science". Yep, I guessed correctly, you are either too embarrassed or too scared to post pictures of your own hair loss (or hair regrowth, which I doubt you have anyway....)


 Next week i will post new pictures from the same same angle, and these where taken 9 days ago.
Hair loss is not science, and thanks epipalilla.

----------


## Aonyx262

I wanted to avoid this thread, but there is just too much nonsense. Hair loss itself is not science. The study of hair loss and potential treatments of hair loss IS science. Just like having a myocardial infarction is not science, but the study of cardiovascular disease and pathology is science. I can't even believe that this is a discussion. As mentioned previously, there are numerous medications that were originally discovered in nature, such as digitalis (digoxin), morphine, and penicillin. In fact, there are versions of FSH and LH for women that are collected from the urine of postmenopausal women and horses. These drugs became "legitimate" through years of testing and demonstrating that they worked, over and over and over and over and over and over and over, not because they worked in one person. There very may likely be some herb or micronutrient in the environment that has the effect of stopping androgenetic alopecia and growing hair back, but until that substance undergoes randomized double-blind controlled trials, it can't be considered a legitimate treatment. Forget the FDA, just have any legitimate organization of scientists test the natural substance in a large group of hair loss sufferers. If your hair loss is being cured by your regimen, then great. Find a researcher to study it for you, maybe you have a cure, but just saying you're using something and then posting only after pictures without a standard of comparison doesn't mean anything. You can post before pictures, it still means nothing. Why? Because you can't cure hairloss through a message forum.

----------


## Herbaliser

> I wanted to avoid this thread, but there is just too much nonsense. Hair loss itself is not science. The study of hair loss and potential treatments of hair loss IS science. Just like having a myocardial infarction is not science, but the study of cardiovascular disease and pathology is science. I can't even believe that this is a discussion. As mentioned previously, there are numerous medications that were originally discovered in nature, such as digitalis (digoxin), morphine, and penicillin. In fact, there are versions of FSH and LH for women that are collected from the urine of postmenopausal women and horses. These drugs became "legitimate" through years of testing and demonstrating that they worked, over and over and over and over and over and over and over, not because they worked in one person. There very may likely be some herb or micronutrient in the environment that has the effect of stopping androgenetic alopecia and growing hair back, but until that substance undergoes randomized double-blind controlled trials, it can't be considered a legitimate treatment. Forget the FDA, just have any legitimate organization of scientists test the natural substance in a large group of hair loss sufferers. If your hair loss is being cured by your regimen, then great. Find a researcher to study it for you, maybe you have a cure, but just saying you're using something and then posting only after pictures without a standard of comparison doesn't mean anything. You can post before pictures, it still means nothing. Why? Because you can't cure hairloss through a message forum.


 Just showing the pictures i took before.
The problem is like i stated so many times before, is that a natural regimen will never be proven because there is to much money involved. 
You are using the word cure and hair loss in the same sentence, and that´s why people suffer from hair loss .

All i can say is that i been loosing hair since 15 years ago, and it suddenly stopped and new hair is growing dramatically.

----------


## Pboy101

> This statement shows that you are indeed very naive because from a scientific prospective, not much is actually known about human hair loss. I don't need to get into a argument with you or anyone else about this, but to accuse him or to suggest that he is a "certified nut" is totally out of order!


 Perhaps when I said that he is a nut that was out of line and a bit of an ad hominem, for which I do owe the guy an apology.  It is true that we don't know all that there is to know about hair loss, but that does not invalidate what we do know about hair loss.

What we do know:
1.  Hair loss is mostly hereditary and caused but DHT weakening the hair follicles.
2.  Finasteride/Dustasteride are anti-androgens that have been shown to block DHT attacking the hair follicles.

What we don't know:
1.  Why people have varying degrees of success with finasteride.
2.  The cure for hair loss.

Truth is that what do we know (finasteride) works.




> If science is so good and has all the answers, let's see pictures of your hair which you have regrown due to "science". Yep, I guessed correctly, you are either too embarrassed or too scared to post pictures of your own hair loss (or hair regrowth, which I doubt you have anyway....)


 Why are you so quick to answer your own question?  Did you really bank on it that I can't provide pictures? lol...  Pictures of when I started to notice hair loss and pictures taken moments ago are below, my friend.  I have pictures taken the 1st of every month, documenting the shedding and regrowth as predicted by the big 3.  Next month (around the 20th) will be my exact 1 year on finasteride and around which time I will post my full story and every picture so that the forum can see.

Then




Now

----------


## Pboy101

By the way, there seems to be confusion or at least some degree of discussions that are not relevant to what we are talking about.  The world natural here that I'm using just means something that's not supernatural (i.e. claims without evidence).  If you find some substance that's found in nature (not lab created) that helps hair loss, that's cool.  Document your usage and results and it will be independently verified by others and it will eventually become science.  Instead of debating the definition of science,  we should really be talking about what you are claiming and and evidence or reasons you got to make such claims and so far I see no good evidence to believe the OP's post on what he thinks works.

----------


## Notcoolanymore

This is just another anti propecia thread.  Nothing new to see here.  We can fight over the meaning of science or the FDA or any other nonsense and it isn't going to matter.  It's not like this hasn't been tried countless times.  Especially with all the anti propecia hype going around.  Most of us have tried some type of natural remedy as our first response to hair loss and the majority of us just ended up losing even more hair.  If you have some type of nutritional deficiency then yes this could possibly make a difference, but if you don't you are wasting precious time. 

This shouldn't even be a debate of natural vs propecia.  It should be a debate of what works vs what doesn't work.  I have yet to read one instance of it working that wasn't suspect(anti propecia propaganda).  I hate taking a prescription med to save my hair.  I have no problem saying that at all, but it is what I have to take to try to prevent from going bald.  If somebody wishes to try this natural treatment I will not steer them away from it.  Go for it and please take plenty of pics of your progress.  It will be a learning opportunity for us all.

----------


## epipapilla

@ Pboy101,

when I first took a glance at you pictures I instantly thought, "Oh my days, where is the hair loss?"

At further detailed inspection of your pictures, the only hair loss that appears visible is that of what appears to be thinning hair in your right temple. But then, I noticed the direction of the light shinning onto your right temple, and I know that this can make your hair there appear like it it suffering more from hair loss...Next, I looked at the lighting in the 2 sets of pictures, and they are totally different, so I don't know how you can even make a "scientific comparison" from this one set of before and after pictures. Next, if you look at the angles of your head in all the comparison before and after, in the pictures of your left and right temples, the head angles are totally different. Lastly, your hair length in your 2 sets of pictures are totally different! Hair loss can easily be masked with longer hair in the "after" pictures....

So, for someone who totally seems obsessed with "science" well your before and after pictures, in my honest opinion, are not very "scientific".

Anyway, I don't want to sound like someone who is here to bash you. Hair loss is something that can affect peoples self confidence and outlook on life. Much of hair loss treatments depends on how you personally feel how it is working for you. If you feel that Finasteride is working for you then that is all that matters, just the same like if *Herbaliser* feels that his natural solution is working for him. There is not, and has never been a "one-fits-all" solution to any medical ailment and people should not be put down for believing that a natural solution is working for them.

Enjoy your hair, enjoy your life!

----------


## Pboy101

> @ Pboy101,
> 
> when I first took a glance at you pictures I instantly thought, "Oh my days, where is the hair loss?"
> 
> At further detailed inspection of your pictures, the only hair loss that appears visible is that of what appears to be thinning hair in your right temple. But then, I noticed the direction of the light shinning onto your right temple, and I know that this can make your hair there appear like it it suffering more from hair loss...Next, I looked at the lighting in the 2 sets of pictures, and they are totally different, so I don't know how you can even make a "scientific comparison" from this one set of before and after pictures. Next, if you look at the angles of your head in all the comparison before and after, in the pictures of your left and right temples, the head angles are totally different. Lastly, your hair length in your 2 sets of pictures are totally different! Hair loss can easily be masked with longer hair in the "after" pictures....
> 
> So, for someone who totally seems obsessed with "science" well your before and after pictures, in my honest opinion, are not very "scientific".
> 
> Anyway, I don't want to sound like someone who is here to bash you. Hair loss is something that can affect peoples self confidence and outlook on life. Much of hair loss treatments depends on how you personally feel how it is working for you. If you feel that Finasteride is working for you then that is all that matters, just the same like if *Herbaliser* feels that his natural solution is working for him. There is not, and has never been a "one-fits-all" solution to any medical ailment and people should not be put down for believing that a natural solution is working for them.
> ...


 I think much more clarity will come when I organize and post every picture and tell my story in about a month.  It is true that I never got very far in my hair loss (NW2, maybe?)and so it will be somewhat difficult to see the difference, but it never got far because I decided to do something about it.  I no longer cut my widow's peak a millimeter or 2 just to give an illusion of an even hairline (as I did in the before picture).  To be honest, if I had just kept my hair as it was a year ago and never lost anymore, I would be fine with it, but we know hair loss is progressive and so that's not the case.  I first noticed the hair loss and shaved completely to see how bad it was (my first post, look it up) and it's clear that I have hair loss.  For me, the most important thing is maintenance and any regrowth is extra, which is precisely what has happened.  Thank you, big 3.

And although maintenance is what's really important to me, I think you are grabbing straws if you think that length, lighting, and angle have that much to do with the hair regrowth seen in these pictures especially when the now pictures are so much brighter than the before pictures.  Notice that I took these current pictures with my phone with a poor frontal camera just on the fly so I can have something to show you.  No matter, I will try to satisfy all your conditions and cut my hair to the exact length that it was in the before picture and take photos in the same spot, same lighting, same angles, before I post my story next month.  

I'm not trying to put down anybody and I am very happy with my current hair and so I don't really visit these forums much anymore.  I check in every now and then to see what's on the horizon and when to expect a cure to hit the market.  While I'm here, I want to help my fellow men because hair loss affected my confidence and I want others to have success as I did.  I think that the first step in the right direction is to not take a step in the wrong direction, or at least in this case the unproven direction.  It is true that there's no one-size-fits-all remedy for hair loss but the percentage of success on the known medicines is so high that you should try them before going other routes.  I just want everyone to be informed on their decision.

If Herbaliser thinks his natural remedies are working for him, that's perfectly fine.  There's just a little more burden (the burden of proof) when you go out and make claims that this as a good remedy with little to no evidence to back it up.  Other people might try this and end up wasting their their time and losing more hair if it ends up not working like the other "natural" remedies as shown by history, and that's not a good thing for the community.  So all that I (and some others) am asking for is some evidence for his claims, and I don't think that's unreasonable.  That's all I got to say.  Good luck.

----------


## epipapilla

> I think you are grabbing straws if you think that length, lighting, and angle have that much to do with the hair regrowth seen in these pictures especially when the now pictures are so much brighter than the before pictures.  Notice that I took these current pictures with my phone with a poor frontal camera just on the fly so I can have something to show you.


 I am not grabbing at straws at all. It appears that you have a tendency to come with many accusations at people for some reason!

I have been taking many pictures of my own hair loss and hair regrowth over the last 9 months and know that hair loss can easily be made to look worse or better with different lighting and with different angles that the head is positioned. If you look at many before and after pictures by companies selling hair loss products you will often see that the after picture has longer hair in it. These are deceptive practises that are common in the hair loss industry and done to make hair regrowth appear better than it actually is. When taking pictures that are meant to help ascertain whether you have hair regrowth progress, especially where your hair loss is not so visible, it is desirable to try to take pictures with the same length, same lighting and same head angles. 

I am done responding or even reading anything you have to write, you are only fixated on Finasteride and Minoxidil. You bring nothing new to the table and seem to have a distinct inability to think outside of the box, unlike *Herbaliser*. Many people on this forum are looking for hair loss solutions that are different from taking or using Finasteride and Minoxidil. 

Science does not exist in a vacuum, neither does hair loss. Hair loss solutions need to be applicable to real life and people need to be comfortable using them. For example, a highly significant percentage of women with cancer, up to 10%, refuse to undergo chemotherapy because they do not want to have the hair loss that is associated with it. You can explain the "science" about chemotherapy and cancer all day long to such women, but they don't care about the science, they care more about their hair! 

That's Life!!

----------


## Trenblastoise

> Probably you didn't read my other posts.
> For me, no hair loss is not science because hair loss suddenly became science for beneficial reasons (do you get my point?)
> Thank you for clearing the definition of science, now i´m as patronizing as you are and at the same level.


 I have read several of them.

You deny that hair loss is science that's fine, it is not science in your opinion and you are entitled to have that. I just wanted to make sure that it is in fact science and you deny that, regardless of "beneficial reasons" whatever that is.

The reason why I provide definitions in a rational discussion is to make sure we are talking of the same things. And here it was as my post stated very extraordinary to see someone claim hair loss isn't science, I thought perhaps you had twisted definition of the word "science". It is not about showing superiority or arrogance, and I do not think you should consider yourself at the same level if you deny facts, that will again be your opinion. We might be at the same level that we understand the definitions provided :Smile:  

I see no reason to comment further so I'll let you have the last word. And wish you a great life, maybe we cross each other in some other thread! :Smile:

----------


## Sondra

I've seen many natural products like olive oil, coconut oil, almond oil, essential oils and herbs working like magic on hair.  It's a slow and steady process that needs patient. Most of the time these things work.

----------


## Pboy101

> I've seen many natural products like olive oil, coconut oil, almond oil, essential oils and herbs working like magic on hair.  It's a slow and steady process that needs patient. Most of the time these things work.


 Contrary to how I've been baselessly accused of in this thread, I'm actually not closed minded and I'm very open to the possibility of new hair loss treatments, even the natural ones.  The only thing that it would take to convince me would be some evidence.  The process of becoming an acceptable treatment is actually very easy to understand.

1.  Find a treatment that you find effective.
2.  Document your usage and results.
3.  Have the same treatment tested and independently verified by others.
4.  Become widely accepted by the hair loss community because of repeated success either with FDA approval (finasteride, minoxidil) or without (RU, CB, Ketoconazole).

It seems to me that you guys are unable to understand this concept and just want to make claims and have them accepted without any pictures, results, testing, whatsoever.  Most of us are skeptical and that's a good thing.  If someone in the street gave you some yellow water and said it's the elixir of life and that you should drink it, I would hope that you would be skeptical about that.  The principle is no different in this case.  Now if you bring some pictures of some progress, then we can start talking.  Until then, snake oil remains snake oil until vindicated by evidence.

----------


## Herbaliser

I put my progress in a new thread: https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...icing-progress

----------


## Herbaliser

> Contrary to how I've been baselessly accused of in this thread, I'm actually not closed minded and I'm very open to the possibility of new hair loss treatments, even the natural ones.  The only thing that it would take to convince me would be some evidence.  The process of becoming an acceptable treatment is actually very easy to understand.
> 
> 1.  Find a treatment that you find effective.
> 2.  Document your usage and results.
> 3.  Have the same treatment tested and independently verified by others.
> 4.  Become widely accepted by the hair loss community because of repeated success either with FDA approval (finasteride, minoxidil) or without (RU, CB, Ketoconazole).
> 
> It seems to me that you guys are unable to understand this concept and just want to make claims and have them accepted without any pictures, results, testing, whatsoever.  Most of us are skeptical and that's a good thing.  If someone in the street gave you some yellow water and said it's the elixir of life and that you should drink it, I would hope that you would be skeptical about that.  The principle is no different in this case.  Now if you bring some pictures of some progress, then we can start talking.  Until then, snake oil remains snake oil until vindicated by evidence.


 For me the treatments has gone way to far.
I was actually shocked going thru this forum, and there has to be a dictionary soon regarding all the medical terms for hair loss.

The companies are only seeing dollar bills, while the victims suffer due to our effort to fit in our shallow society that created this.
I found my way by accident and health (even if it was so called hereditary) , but it will never progress further and nobody will try it anyway.

They succeeded by making this a big market, and keep people on hold.

----------


## Herbaliser

> I am not grabbing at straws at all. It appears that you have a tendency to come with many accusations at people for some reason!
> 
> I have been taking many pictures of my own hair loss and hair regrowth over the last 9 months and know that hair loss can easily be made to look worse or better with different lighting and with different angles that the head is positioned. If you look at many before and after pictures by companies selling hair loss products you will often see that the after picture has longer hair in it. These are deceptive practises that are common in the hair loss industry and done to make hair regrowth appear better than it actually is. When taking pictures that are meant to help ascertain whether you have hair regrowth progress, especially where your hair loss is not so visible, it is desirable to try to take pictures with the same length, same lighting and same head angles. 
> 
> I am done responding or even reading anything you have to write, you are only fixated on Finasteride and Minoxidil. You bring nothing new to the table and seem to have a distinct inability to think outside of the box, unlike *Herbaliser*. Many people on this forum are looking for hair loss solutions that are different from taking or using Finasteride and Minoxidil. 
> 
> Science does not exist in a vacuum, neither does hair loss. Hair loss solutions need to be applicable to real life and people need to be comfortable using them. For example, a highly significant percentage of women with cancer, up to 10%, refuse to undergo chemotherapy because they do not want to have the hair loss that is associated with it. You can explain the "science" about chemotherapy and cancer all day long to such women, but they don't care about the science, they care more about their hair! 
> 
> That's Life!!


 Thank you again for thinking clearly, and the approach regarding hair loss.

----------


## epipapilla

> Contrary to how I've been baselessly accused of in this thread, I'm actually not closed minded and I'm very open to the possibility of new hair loss treatments, even the natural ones.  The only thing that it would take to convince me would be some evidence.  The process of becoming an acceptable treatment is actually very easy to understand.
> 
> 1.  Find a treatment that you find effective.
> 2.  Document your usage and results.
> 3.  Have the same treatment tested and independently verified by others.
> 4.  Become widely accepted by the hair loss community because of repeated success either with FDA approval (finasteride, minoxidil) or without (RU, CB, Ketoconazole).
> 
> It seems to me that you guys are unable to understand this concept and just want to make claims and have them accepted without any pictures, results, testing, whatsoever.  Most of us are skeptical and that's a good thing.  If someone in the street gave you some yellow water and said it's the elixir of life and that you should drink it, I would hope that you would be skeptical about that.  The principle is no different in this case.  Now if you bring some pictures of some progress, then we can start talking.  Until then, snake oil remains snake oil until vindicated by evidence.


 Haha!

Okay! I will post pictures of my hair regrowth progress in July 2015 in order for you to observe how good natural hair loss treatments can be. 

Why July 2015? Well, because I have been using this natural hair loss treatment since July 2014 and I think that 1 year is adequate time to evaluate if it is working. Well, actually, on 28 April 2015, I knew that this "non scientific" and "non-FDA approved" treatment was effectively working to regrow the hair in my vertex. But, I don't want to commit hubris just yet, so I will wait until July to show you.

I will not currently reveal more about the hair loss treatment I am using, I will only do so in July.

Make sure you come back to this thread in mid July 2015!!

----------


## Herbaliser

> Haha!
> 
> Okay! I will post pictures of my hair regrowth progress in July 2015 in order for you to observe how good natural hair loss treatments can be. 
> 
> Why July 2015? Well, because I have been using this natural hair loss treatment since July 2014 and I think that 1 year is adequate time to evaluate if it is working. Well, actually, on 28 April 2015, I knew that this "non scientific" and "non-FDA approved" treatment was effectively working to regrow the hair in my vertex. But, I don't want to commit hubris just yet, so I will wait until July to show you.
> 
> I will not currently reveal more about the hair loss treatment I am using, I will only do so in July.
> 
> Make sure you come back to this thread in mid July 2015!!


 My progress went over my expectation as posted in a another thread and so will yours.
Only a couple were surprised over the result, for that short of time, and the rest is surely in a denial mode because the drugs would be unnecessary.
Probably i went to far by quoting this?

----------


## Herbaliser

These pictures are 12 days between.
I found a natural treatment that reg-rowed my hair and gave me health benefit also.

----------


## Herbaliser

> I have read several of them.
> 
> You deny that hair loss is science that's fine, it is not science in your opinion and you are entitled to have that. I just wanted to make sure that it is in fact science and you deny that, regardless of "beneficial reasons" whatever that is.
> 
> The reason why I provide definitions in a rational discussion is to make sure we are talking of the same things. And here it was as my post stated very extraordinary to see someone claim hair loss isn't science, I thought perhaps you had twisted definition of the word "science". It is not about showing superiority or arrogance, and I do not think you should consider yourself at the same level if you deny facts, that will again be your opinion. We might be at the same level that we understand the definitions provided 
> 
> I see no reason to comment further so I'll let you have the last word. And wish you a great life, maybe we cross each other in some other thread!


 No worries.
It´s always good to have different opinions, because then we learn from each other.

----------


## Herbaliser

One year old pictures.

----------


## Y gwningen llwyd

If you want to go down the natural route, then that is your decision. As for me, however, I prefer to stick to my regimen of Dut and Minox.

I’d like if you would report back to this exact thread with photos in ten years from now, and we will see how effective your all-natural regimen has been over that ten-year period.

Maybe you will be that special snowflake, or maybe you will be in the 99.99999% of genetic hair loss sufferers who have tried to fight nature with nature and who have continued to go naturally bald.

----------


## Herbaliser

Exactly,it is my decision to go the natural way and i am happy that it works for me.
I am so tired of all of those people who as soon as they hear the word ''natural'' they go ballistic.Let's go with minox,dut and don't give a damn  about the sides effects.What the hell,at least the hair grows,right? 

I read comments where guys were sharing their stories about how they experienced side effects of different drugs for hair loss and they received answers that they should continue using it.So yeah,i would rather be a special snowflake that grows hair the natural way.I am not addicted to minox,dut,etc. and i respect other people's choices.

----------


## Herbaliser

My progress.
New ones still growing.

----------


## burtandernie

You went to a doctor and got a diagnosis that you had MPB to begin with and not something else like diet related issues? Its hard to tell anything in pictures with different lighting, backgrounds, and stuff. You should find one consistent place, lighting, and everything for all pictures otherwise its like an infomercial where they have the dude grow his hair longer and smile to show he has more hair when its clearly not true.

----------


## Herbaliser

> You went to a doctor and got a diagnosis that you had MPB to begin with and not something else like diet related issues? Its hard to tell anything in pictures with different lighting, backgrounds, and stuff. You should find one consistent place, lighting, and everything for all pictures otherwise its like an infomercial where they have the dude grow his hair longer and smile to show he has more hair when its clearly not true.


 I just took a pictures with normal light.
You have already decided not to not see any difference, based on what i´m using, so it wouldn't matter if i had a full set of hair.
I´m going to use the bathroom as usual, but it really docent matter.

The reason why i posted also was for those that already use Fin or minox etc...  to maybe try it out, and use it with their current treatment as a boost.
Like i said hair loss is in both sides of my family and no i didn't go to the doctor, because it´s hair loss and not something that i have to treat or cure.

----------


## Herbaliser

Whats the point with this forum, when everything gets trashed if it´s not Fin or minox (auto reply would be just fine) for newbies.
We dream of the next upcoming magical pill or cure, that our friendly scientist or doctor creates for us.
It is easy to blame genetics and believe my it´s pure gold for the industry, too keep us on the drugs and not think for our selves.

I used to take multivitamin pills before, because it was so easy to get all my needs in a one single pill!
Our bodies think otherwise and i (we) noticed that big time when we started juicing fresh greens instead due to the enzyme breakdown.

I have no clue if it is my topical home made snake oil, or my intake that has the most impact but i´m going to keep on them both  
because for me hair regrowth is in symbiosis with health and not the opposite.

----------


## Herbaliser

> I just took a pictures with normal light.
> You have already decided not to not see any difference, based on what i´m using, so it wouldn't matter if i had a full set of hair.
> I´m going to use the bathroom as usual, but it really docent matter.
> 
> The reason why i posted also was for those that already use Fin or minox etc...  to maybe try it out, and use it with their current treatment as a boost.
> Like i said hair loss is in both sides of my family and no i didn't go to the doctor, because it´s hair loss and not something that i have to treat or cure.


 New pictures.

----------


## burtandernie

> I just took a pictures with normal light.
> *You have already decided not to not see any difference, based on what i´m using*, so it wouldn't matter if i had a full set of hair.
> I´m going to use the bathroom as usual, but it really docent matter.
> 
> The reason why i posted also was for those that already use Fin or minox etc...  to maybe try it out, and use it with their current treatment as a boost.
> Like i said hair loss is in both sides of my family and no i didn't go to the doctor, because it´s hair loss and not something that i have to treat or cure.


 I dont remember saying that anywhere or saying anything that would imply that. Good luck I guess then with your method.

----------


## Notcoolanymore

I am not trying to be negative, but you are not really slick bald in any of your "before" pics.  Your temples are recessed, but it appears you have coverage everywhere else.  Can you post current pics from the same angle as the "before" pics?  Temple regrowth would be a huge gain.

----------


## Herbaliser

I zoomed in the picture taken the 16th last month and a new one today on my temple.
Highlighted the areas where my new hair starting to show on the old one, and the new one (today) with my dark dead hair showing under the new hair.

The new one is during day time under light and the other probably (afternoon i´m assuming due to the darker background) under light.
The reason i joined this forum was because my sudden hair regrowth but i had no clue that this was such a delicate matter.

I should have read more posts on this forum and taken another approach , before posting.
I don´t have permission to shave my head again (it became a must for me for convenience) , since my wife suddenly became shallow because i´m growing new hair  :Smile: 
But i do have a better understanding now, how forums like this works due to our society.

----------


## Herbaliser

Good luck for everyone of you, and that you had to put up with a snowflake (wannabe) like me.
I really hope you will find your solution either by hair or just shaving it off since i don´t give a f..k (sorry) about our shallow society, but i still have to listen to my wife anyway.

I hope you got my point at least that i think hair (regrowth) is in symbiosis with health, and not drugs to handle a disease.

----------


## Herbaliser

> Good luck for everyone of you, and that you had to put up with a snowflake (wannabe) like me.
> I really hope you will find your solution either by hair or just shaving it off since i don´t give a f..k (sorry) about our shallow society, but i still have to listen to my wife anyway.
> 
> I hope you got my point at least that i think hair (regrowth) is in symbiosis with health, and not drugs to handle a disease.


 Sorry i forgot.
No supplements for me either, even if it is snake oil or drugs.

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## Herbaliser

Managed to find a better old picture from last year.
Took a nasty close up picture on my crown.

Had to wet the hair because it´s light blond now, and split it to show that there is still regrowth.

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## dimpy3157

> recipe:
> 
> 
> This is a wonderful smelling creamy All natural Coconut Shampoo focused to help stop Thinning Hair! I have used this on myself and others and have seen improvements with hair growth in thinning areas within 1- 2 months. 
> Ingredients:
> Castile soap- 4-5 tsp, 1 Green tea bag, Coconut milk 3 tsp, Olive oil- 3 tsp, Emu oil 1 tsp,
> Lavendar oil 1 tsp, Castor oil1 tsp, Virgin Coconut oil 2-5 tsp.


 Thanks for hair this recipe. I will try. I am also suffering from hair loss problem. I am using coconut oil but i have no information regarding Coconut Shampoo.

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## Herbaliser

> Thanks for hair this recipe. I will try. I am also suffering from hair loss problem. I am using coconut oil but i have no information regarding Coconut Shampoo.


 Hi dimpy,

It´s a mixture that i refined a little.
I put it in a another forum since the majority here, are a bit negative towards natural treatments.
If you are interested: http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t...icing-progress

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## dimpy3157

> Hi dimpy,
> 
> It´s a mixture that i refined a little.
> I put it in a another forum since the majority here, are a bit negative towards natural treatments.
> If you are interested: http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t...icing-progress


 Thanks

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## Dank

Just read through this entire thread. There are some great things being said here by both camps. Finasteride is a fantastic drug and I was optimistic about starting it. Upon using it for 5 months, I began developing some nasty sides last month and I've decided it's time to get off. Of course, I understand that any MPB regimen without a DHT-inhibitor is useless; therefore, I am considering turning to the DHT-blockers proposed by hairloss-research.org (for example, see http://www.hairloss-research.org/Upd...cktea7-09.html). The other inhibitors he proposes are Super Absorbable Soy Isoflavones, Green Tea Extract, and Natural Prostate Formula. 

This is an honest, innocent inquiry geared to those in this thread that have dismissed natural treatments on the grounds of there not being enough scientific research. Just click on the above link...is that research? Is that scientific enough? Click around on the site (if you haven't already); is that credible research? This is an honest question. 

Again, I want to stay on fin because I KNOW it works for SO many people, but, it's not for everyone, and my body has been telling me it's not for me. As I said, I'm considering natural DHT-inhibitors but I want to ensure that the research done here is legitimate and scientific. How do we feel about this site? 

Thanks, everyone!

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## Herbaliser

> Just read through this entire thread. There are some great things being said here by both camps. Finasteride is a fantastic drug and I was optimistic about starting it. Upon using it for 5 months, I began developing some nasty sides last month and I've decided it's time to get off. Of course, I understand that any MPB regimen without a DHT-inhibitor is useless; therefore, I am considering turning to the DHT-blockers proposed by hairloss-research.org (for example, see http://www.hairloss-research.org/Upd...cktea7-09.html). The other inhibitors he proposes are Super Absorbable Soy Isoflavones, Green Tea Extract, and Natural Prostate Formula. 
> 
> This is an honest, innocent inquiry geared to those in this thread that have dismissed natural treatments on the grounds of there not being enough scientific research. Just click on the above link...is that research? Is that scientific enough? Click around on the site (if you haven't already); is that credible research? This is an honest question. 
> 
> Again, I want to stay on fin because I KNOW it works for SO many people, but, it's not for everyone, and my body has been telling me it's not for me. As I said, I'm considering natural DHT-inhibitors but I want to ensure that the research done here is legitimate and scientific. How do we feel about this site? 
> 
> Thanks, everyone!


 I´m not going to tell you that my remedy works for you since it not proven.
But there is a reason why Fin got an approval, and i read a lot about this with an open mind.
The simple reason is money, and natural ingredients will never be approved https://www.facebook.com/AceitePuroD...44501935622213
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/why...ral-substances

I found my way, and you can make your own conclusion.
http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t...icing-progress

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## Dank

> I´m not going to tell you that my remedy works for you since it not proven.
> But there is a reason why Fin got an approval, and i read a lot about this with an open mind.
> The simple reason is money, and natural ingredients will never be approved https://www.facebook.com/AceitePuroD...44501935622213
> http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/why...ral-substances
> 
> http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t...icing-progress


 So weird how that had nothing to do with my post. I'm asking for those that dismiss natural alternatives to comment on a specific website that presents scientific data/research behind these treatments. For instance, in the link I provided, he shows that while finasteride reduces DHT by 71%, Black Tea Extract reduces it by 72%. My question is directed to those that gainsay the efficacy of natural treatments: are these findings not credible? is it just more biased propaganda?

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## Herbaliser

> So weird how that had nothing to do with my post. I'm asking for those that dismiss natural alternatives to comment on a specific website that presents scientific data/research behind these treatments. For instance, in the link I provided, he shows that while finasteride reduces DHT by 71%, Black Tea Extract reduces it by 72%. My question is directed to those that gainsay the efficacy of natural treatments: are these findings not credible? is it just more biased propaganda?


 You didn't get my point.
Keep calculating.

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## Pboy101

> Just read through this entire thread. There are some great things being said here by both camps. Finasteride is a fantastic drug and I was optimistic about starting it. Upon using it for 5 months, I began developing some nasty sides last month and I've decided it's time to get off. Of course, I understand that any MPB regimen without a DHT-inhibitor is useless; therefore, I am considering turning to the DHT-blockers proposed by hairloss-research.org (for example, see http://www.hairloss-research.org/Upd...cktea7-09.html). The other inhibitors he proposes are Super Absorbable Soy Isoflavones, Green Tea Extract, and Natural Prostate Formula. 
> 
> This is an honest, innocent inquiry geared to those in this thread that have dismissed natural treatments on the grounds of there not being enough scientific research. Just click on the above link...is that research? Is that scientific enough? Click around on the site (if you haven't already); is that credible research? This is an honest question. 
> 
> Again, I want to stay on fin because I KNOW it works for SO many people, but, it's not for everyone, and my body has been telling me it's not for me. As I said, I'm considering natural DHT-inhibitors but I want to ensure that the research done here is legitimate and scientific. How do we feel about this site? 
> 
> Thanks, everyone!


 That is some very interesting information my friend.  I am not a websites expert so I cannot tell you whether or not the site is trustworthy nor am I able to retrieve the original study by Harvard from which they based this article.  However, if the information is true, the only thing missing is the studies of this black tea done on humans instead of mice and if that would have similar results to finasteride.  

Sorry that Fin did not work out for you.  If you really have nothing to lose and want your hair, perhaps you can try this black tea stuff and let us know how it goes?  Better yet, if you haven't started, might I recommend getting a blood test to check your DHT level and within a month or two of usage, get another blood test to see if DHT level has really decreased.  Good luck.

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## Y gwningen llwyd

Any natural treatment that reduces DHT enough to halt the balding process will have side-effects just like Fin does. You need to reduce your DHT levels to at least 60-70% in order to effectively treat your hair loss, so just use Fin. You'll get the same side-effects from any natural alternative anyway. In any case, there are no natural treatments that have been proven to reduce DHT to anywhere near that amount anyway. Black Tea Extract does not reduce DHT to anywhere near 72%.

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## Dank

> Any natural treatment that reduces DHT enough to halt the balding process will have side-effects just like Fin does. You need to reduce your DHT levels to at least 60-70% in order to effectively treat your hair loss, so just use Fin. You'll get the same side-effects from any natural alternative anyway. In any case, there are no natural treatments that have been proven to reduce DHT to anywhere near that amount anyway. Black Tea Extract does not reduce DHT to anywhere near 72%.


 Concerning your claim about DHT reduction, many, including the authors (yes, a plurality) of the above site would disagree on the grounds of the DHT inhibition coming from a different mechanism, thus avoiding the side effects. In fact, they claim that, in the 3 DHT inhibitors I provided (from them) above, sexual function actually improves.

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## Y gwningen llwyd

If your body is being starved of DHT, it is being starved of DHT. It doesn't matter what molecule is responsible for removing this DHT, so long as it is removing enough DHT to cause the side-effects. The side-effects from using a DHT blocker are entirely the result of the actual reduction of DHT in your body, not the result of the specific mechanism by which the DHT blocker interacts with other molecules in order to cause this DHT reduction.

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## Herbaliser

You are over calculating like posted before, since my remedy is non supplemental.
I went back to basics instead of using synthetic treatment, and i´m convinced when it´s pure natural our body adapts to it.

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## Herbaliser

Update on my progress.
I still have a nice regrowth on my temple.
Had to darkened the picture a little on my temple, since my blond hair is almost the same color as my scalp.

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## Herbaliser

I added fresh coriander due to it´s properties.

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## Herbaliser

> I added fresh coriander due to it´s properties.


 Already mentioned sorry.
Been away too long.

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## burtandernie

> If your body is being starved of DHT, it is being starved of DHT. It doesn't matter what molecule is responsible for removing this DHT, so long as it is removing enough DHT to cause the side-effects. The side-effects from using a DHT blocker are entirely the result of the actual reduction of DHT in your body, not the result of the specific mechanism by which the DHT blocker interacts with other molecules in order to cause this DHT reduction.


 Yeah I agree this seems most likely from what is known. I think the problem with most naturals that could work is simply the strength and dosage just arent nearly enough

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## Herbaliser

Strength and dosage are not enough?
Well the main issue when you use drugs is that you change your whole functional system, and therefore side effects is common because your body thinks otherwise. 

My success is based on the ingredients itself that your body absorbs naturally, and those 99% who tried the natural way is supplemental.
Herbs or greens by itself is way more complex than a supplement, because supplements only hopefully triggers what the label states, and therefore supplements need (friends) which natural ingredients already have.

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## Herbaliser

I use a pastel now to crush the green tea and coriander, and as soon the coriander leaves breaks the enzyme progress begins.
When i put it on my scalp with the oils it oxides during the 20 minutes, from light green to dark green since it releases it´s nutrients.

The coconut milk has it´s own benefits, and the other oils are binary to help the progress.

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## Herbaliser

http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t...icing-progress

Make your own decision, but this worked for me and as above mentioned i think it is about the enzyme, oxidation progress that is the key for me at least.

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