# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  Complete RU58841 Usage Guide

## hellouser

*Things You'll Need:*

1) Get 10 grams of RU from Kane.

2) At the same time order off of eBay or Amazon a *0.001* gram digital scale. You NEED this to correctly measure 30-100mg of RU for each application. These typically cost between $20-30 US, heres the one I use: http://i50.tinypic.com/23j28wn.jpg

3) Buy yourself the following items at the drug store;
-1ml dropper ($2-3.00 max)
-100ml or more of propylene glycol (aka PG) (I paid $3.10 for 200ml)
-Everclear alcohol. Make sure it is 95&#37; alcohol/190 Proof. http://tinypic.com/r/246rjmd/6

4) Obtain a very small bottle that holds no more than 20ml of liquid, you'll need this to make your daily mix of RU with PG and Everclear. I use a small 'Testors' bottle (I bought it containing paint but knew I would dump it out and use it for mixing RU). Refer here for my testors bottle:
Image: http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn....os/8804T-2.jpg
http://www.newcenturyhobbies.com/Tes...4T_p/8804t.htm

Although, a company called 'Aztek' also makes small bottles, check here:
Image: http://www2.gpmd.com/image/t/tesr5330.jpg
http://www3.omnimodels.com/cgi-bin/w...=WR&I=TESR5330

5) Buy yourself a small measuring spoon, you don't need to go balls out on this, just get something cheap but SMALL even from a cheap 'Dollar Store'. You'll need to scoop up the RU powder somehow.

Note: here's an image of some of the stuff thats used in my arsenal against MPB:



*Whats is a 'Vehicle' ?*

RU powder cannot be applied directly on the scalp with the hopes of being effective. It needs to penetrate the skin and works it magic where the hair follicle lives. This can only be done when RU is mixed into a solution like Everclear or KB and dissolved completely. Your solution should end up looking completely clear. This is known as a vehicle. In this guide I show and explain how to use RU with Everclear. There is also another popular one (as mentioned previously) called KB. You can buy this in group buys or elsewhere (Kane, MPB Treatments) and mix RU in that. KB is a prepared vehicle, so you won't need to mix any alcohols and PG together which is a bonus, but the downside is you don't have control over the ratio between alcohol/pg.

*How To Mix:*

1) Using your digital scale and scoop, measure however much you'd like to use. Don't use more than 100mg *ever* although its good to start off for the first month or so at a higher dosage like 100mg only to kickstart the whole process and any potential regrowth. Make sure to use the TARE function when you've got your small plate on the scale, obviously this cannot be weighed as part of the RU powder so you'll need to be at 0.000 weight before beginning.

2) Dump the RU powder into your small bottle.

3) Using your 1ml dropper, pour 0.7ml of everclear into the bottle and let the RU mix with it for 10minutes or so. I typically mix the RU and everclear a little more by squeezing in and squeezing out the mixed solution with the dropper. Having it just sit doesn't desolve it completely. I do this for about 30 seconds though.

4) Using your 1ml dropper again, pour in 0.3ml of PG into the bottle and mix it again with the RU and everclear. I typically wait a couple minutes for it to mix in completely.

Youre ready to apply.

*Application*:

1) Its absolute BEST to apply mixed and prepared RU after youve washed your hair/scalp and your hair is completely dry. Try to apply it within 30 minutes of washing your hair because your scalp produces an oily substance called sebum which will lessen the efficacy of RU penetrating the skin and blocking DHT topically.

2) If using on your hairline, be aware that the RU solution is a bit watery so its best to apply WITHIN and behind the hairline. You'll want to preserve what may be receded but potentially also regrow any hair. This way, youre not just applying it the slick bald spots, you want to maintain as well! If you apply it just outside the hairline to regrow anything, you'll find that a lot of runs down your noggin and go to waste.

Tip: Exfoliate your scalp! This is actually good because it removes old skin and lets you fight DHT even better. Try to buy yourself an exfoliating cream. Theyre not too expensive, maybe $25 at the most but you won't use much of it anyway, just around the hairline/temples or wherever needed. I typically exfoliate before showering. Let the cream sit for about 1-2 minutes though.

Here's where I apply RU:



Red lines indicate where I drop RU. Any spots in between are usually rubbed in with finger or compensated with CB which I'm on as well.

*Storage:*

Keep your RU powder sealed and in the fridge or better yet in the freezer to have the efficacy last for as long as possible. I've read that RU can withstand several weeks in normal room temperature before it goes bad, but don't risk that and just store it in the fridge/freezer. Also, make sure it is kept AWAY from light and sealed tight blocking out air. I have mine stored in a small plastic bottle closed tight but I also put the bottle into a ziplock bag as well and in the fridge.

Notes:

Try not to buy anything thats an 'all-in-one' as the efficacy in that is pretty much crap compared to fresh daily batches of mixed RU. Its best to do this process every day, but 3-5 days worth of batches prepared is fine as well. It is tedious at first, but soon enough it will become pretty quick and you wont need to use the digital scale and you'll end up just eye-balling it.  Again, try to store it in the fridge and away from light and air. I suppose one of those old 35mm film roll containers could work quite well against light, but keep it double sealed regardless.

*How long will RU58841 last?*
It depends on the concentration. The higher concentration, the better the efficacy, the shorter it will last you and the more its going to cost you. Its also going to depend how many times a day you apply and if you apply more than 1ml per application. 10mg of RU in 1ml is useless. Don't expect results. 20mg isnt going to do much either, so don't bother. I wouldn't go below 50mg.

I've upped my dosage to 100mg/1ml and apply once daily. So, do the math;

10grams (10,000mg) / 100mg = 100 applications

Since I use RU once daily, that obviously gives me 100 days worth of usage, so a little over 3 months. If you buy from Kane, 10g will cost you $225, or $75/month.

*Results*: I've created a log of my usage with RU, Minox, Nizoral, CB and Saw Palmetto, read here for more details; http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=12390

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## youngin

Nice post hell!

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## FearTheLoss

Hell might as well write his own book and sell it on BTT ahah

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## paradigmshift

This is exactly what I am seeking. Thanks!

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## HARIRI

Great thread Hellouser, However if anyone outside US he can order the RU pre mixed product ready from www.mpbtreatments.com and spare himself from the headache  :Big Grin:

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## FearTheLoss

RU isn't as good premixed as it degrades quickly, especially when it's not stored properly. (like when it's shipped or caught in customs) Also, 1% RU from  MPB treatments isn't enough RU

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## Yunaiba

> RU isn't as good premixed as it degrades quickly, especially when it's not stored properly. (like when it's shipped or caught in customs) Also, 1% RU from  MPB treatments isn't enough RU


 FeartheLoss, how do you actually know that Ru degrades quickly?
Shipping? You mean that it degrades in 15 days or so?
Also you can get from 1 till 5% Ru in mpbtratments

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

hellouser we really apreciate and thank you for your info and guide, respect, its is trully helpfull that all the web has it as a secret how to where how much etc about these treatments.

i can see HUUUUUUGE improvement with your ru keep it like that, in a way you are saved you are rescued you avoided the curse , i am really happry for you, we will keep waiting and hoping for cb the next months , something tells me that cb will lower your hairline and boos the density more, we cant wait,



file poly kalo apotelesma , prepei na eisai paenytyxhs, sygxarhthria :Smile:

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## hellouser

> file poly kalo apotelesma , prepei na eisai paenytyxhs, sygxarhthria


 Damn! I completely forgot all greek! Youre going to have to translate, haha.

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## FearTheLoss

> FeartheLoss, how do you actually know that Ru degrades quickly?
> Shipping? You mean that it degrades in 15 days or so?
> Also you can get from 1 till 5% Ru in mpbtratments


 I read on another forum somewhere I forget..but to get 100% benefits from it you don't want to mix longer than 2 week batches...I do one week batches

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## hellouser

> I read on another forum somewhere I forget..but to get 100% benefits from it you don't want to mix longer than 2 week batches...I do one week batches


 Same here, I stick to somewhere between 5-7 days per batch.

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## StayThick

Hellouser: I currently apply 3ml of Capillogain at night. RU at 1ml would not cover my diffuse scalp, let alone both corners of hairline. Are you really just applying drops to your scalp then rubbing it in.

I find it very difficult to use 1ml to cover the entire scalp.

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## Thinning87

great thread

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## StayThick

I decided to start at 50mg of RU in 2ML of Alcohol/PG. I needed to increase the amount to cover my entire diffuse scalp.

I'm reading more and more that RU is more of preventative solution than a regrowth one. I hope I can have some success Hellouser. Wish me luck.

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## greatjob!

anyone know of a suitable vehicle alternative to propylene glycol/alcohol? That shiz gives me unbearable dandruff

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## Boldy

> anyone know of a suitable vehicle alternative to propylene glycol/alcohol? That shiz gives me unbearable dandruff


 I always use 96&#37; Ethanol + *Glycerin*  to dissolve my powders in, which doesn't give me dandruff.

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## KO1

Great guide, I bookmarked this gem.  In one post you mentioned ordering from Ontario, and here you noted Kane.  Which is preferable?

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## hellouser

> Hellouser: I currently apply 3ml of Capillogain at night. RU at 1ml would not cover my diffuse scalp, let alone both corners of hairline. Are you really just applying drops to your scalp then rubbing it in.
> 
> I find it very difficult to use 1ml to cover the entire scalp.


 Refer to my picture I posted of where i apply RU. I squeeze the dropper and then run down the scalp. In some areas I just let out drops (crown and corners of temples).

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## hellouser

> Great guide, I bookmarked this gem.  In one post you mentioned ordering from Ontario, and here you noted Kane.  Which is preferable?


 I've never purchased from Kane. OC I've heard mixed review, but I wont be buying from them again for two reasons;

1) Expensive.
2) Henry seems like an asian FOB. His responses via email aren't ensuring.

Given #2, I would hesitate to buy from him again as I question the purity.

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## growhair

where do you guys buy the everclear I read online that it isnt available in every state.

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## hellouser

> where do you guys buy the everclear I read online that it isnt available in every state.


 I got mine in Bufallo, New York

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

hellouser, is it possible to apply ru while in the army? can i do that? that everyday mix thing make me think of it that its impossible, what should i do?

i am stressed now,  i was thinking to join army and when i leave army be full of hair or at least have good hair  :Smile:   ,a bonus for me would be that they force you to have buzz cut so it will be easier to apply  :Smile:

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## Arashi

Hey Hellouser, did you read about the benefits of topical fina ? As you're the king of homebrewing: do you think it would be easy to make a topical creme out of the pills ? Since it will probably take some time before topical fina becomes FDA approved (at least a phase III study probably is required)

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## hellouser

> Hey Hellouser, did you read about the benefits of topical fina ? As you're the king of homebrewing: do you think it would be easy to make a topical creme out of the pills ? Since it will probably take some time before topical fina becomes FDA approved (at least a phase III study probably is required)


 If it dissolves fine in ethanol, it should work fine. But I've got a feeling it will still go systemic more so than RU. RU for me seems to work quite well so to hop off a working treatment just to try Fin (which I despise) is a major gamble.

I hate everything about Finasteride all the way to wishing Merck would go up in flames. They along with the men that have been on it and havent done anything to push for a superior alternative are partially to blame for why were still even talking about finasteride in 2013. We should be a LOT further.

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## hellouser

> hellouser, is it possible to apply ru while in the army? can i do that? that everyday mix thing make me think of it that its impossible, what should i do?
> 
> i am stressed now,  i was thinking to join army and when i leave army be full of hair or at least have good hair   ,a bonus for me would be that they force you to have buzz cut so it will be easier to apply


 RU58841 isnt a steroid as far as I know, so that should be fine. However, whoever finds out it may put you in a shitty situation.

I am 100% sure that applying RU on a shaved head will yield much better coverage and results. A lot of my application gets stuck in my hair rather than going onto the scalp.

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## hwildcat

> RU58841 isnt a steroid as far as I know, so that should be fine. However, whoever finds out it may put you in a shitty situation.
> 
> I am 100% sure that applying RU on a shaved head will yield much better coverage and results. A lot of my application gets stuck in my hair rather than going onto the scalp.


 Do you have any advice for applying it if you have shaggy hair?

I just ordered some mainly because of the amazing results you and a couple others have had with it, but am worried most of it will get stuck to my remaining hair and not absorb into my scalp. I have heard some complain it is really hard to spread it out over your entire scalp. 

Can you apply it right after the shower? Because that is when my scalp shows up the most.

Thank you

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## hellouser

> Do you have any advice for applying it if you have shaggy hair?


 Cut it.

10char

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## jlantern

> Cut it.
> 
> 10char


 I second that .. I cut my hair to 1'' its really easy to apply RU now.  even at 3'' most was getting caught in hair and I was using a very fine tipped dropped

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## abrorcasanova

I bought RU few weeks back, but had to leave urgently from country and left RU in the fridge, will it still be ok? 

I never opened it

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## DifferentLine

I'm on Finasteride and I'm not sure if it's going to work for me. Would RU likely work if fin failed?

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## jlantern

> I bought RU few weeks back, but had to leave urgently from country and left RU in the fridge, will it still be ok? 
> 
> I never opened it


 Yes it will be fine .. read the handling and mixing instructions .. keep the bulk in the freezer .. as long as its not out open to the air in room temp its fine.




> I'm on Finasteride and I'm not sure if it's going to work for me. Would RU likely work if fin failed?


 You're on fin and its not working?  Please explain/how long have you been on... Both together can be synergistic ..

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## DifferentLine

^I've only been on fin for 2 months. 

I know it's far too early to tell if its going to work for me. I'm kind of a pessimist, so I almost expect to be in the 10&#37; that it doesn't work for.

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## jlantern

> ^I've only been on fin for 2 months. 
> 
> I know it's far too early to tell if its going to work for me. I'm kind of a pessimist, so I almost expect to be in the 10% that it doesn't work for.


 fin can take up to a year to see results.  That is how long it took me.

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## Thinning87

> ^I've only been on fin for 2 months. 
> 
> I know it's far too early to tell if its going to work for me. I'm kind of a pessimist, so I almost expect to be in the 10% that it doesn't work for.


 you have to be really careful and take pictures if you can - I thought it wasn't working for me so well and stopped it becasue of mild side effects - but I then realized it had stopped my hair loss and actually strenghtened my hair, and noticed a huge shed in the 3 months after I quit.

So don't just quit unless you are really sure of quitting, because I would pay 2 grant to have the hair I had a year ago and to be able to take fin consistently.

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## DifferentLine

> fin can take up to a year to see results.  That is how long it took me.


 When you say it took a year to see results - do you mean it took a year to see regrowth, or it took a year for your hair fall to lessen?

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## jlantern

> When you say it took a year to see results - do you mean it took a year to see regrowth, or it took a year for your hair fall to lessen?


 I justed minox and keto for a year or so .. and it was fine .. but then I moved quickly to a nw2.. then it took a bit to get up the nerve to use fin in that time.  The first 6 months there was a light shed .. then for 2 months it stayed pretty steady, which made me happy(also thickened up my crown).  the latter 6 months up until I started RU I saw some small hairs come up.  But those hairs I could only see in bright light at a certain angle .. Nothing of notice..  

Those hairs from FIN RU made really long now.  They are not shedding and I hope to grow back thicker. Take a look at my pictures you can see what I am talking about.   The hair you see in those pictures are shedding right now.  Hopefully in am month they grow back thicker.  

Its way to early to tell if fin is working for you or not

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## DifferentLine

^ Sorry for all the questions jlantern. You mentioned you had a light shed for the first 6 months; were you shedding more than before you started fin or less during this time?

Much appreciate your help.

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## StayThick

Guys, I keep hearing varying opinions on the vehicle. Many argue K&B Solution by itself is a better vehicle, while some prefer the PG/Everclear route.

Anybody try both or have a preference in vehicle?

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## jlantern

> ^ Sorry for all the questions jlantern. You mentioned you had a light shed for the first 6 months; were you shedding more than before you started fin or less during this time?
> 
> Much appreciate your help.


 Good question.  I would say before I started fin I saw a lot of thick hairs shedding.  Once I started fin for 4 months I saw the same hairs then it went to shedding of just thin hairs.  then shedding stopped the latter 6 months

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

is there any possibility i get sexual sides from ru?

does this has anything to do with the vehicle?

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## jlantern

> is there any possibility i get sexual sides from ru?
> 
> does this has anything to do with the vehicle?


 Ive only found 1 case where someone got sides from it.  However this person also reported being hyper sensitive to fin.

I take almost 200mg a day, no sides and 1.25 mg fin, no sides

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## MrBlonde

Hellouser I have two questions for you regarding RU mixing.

When your RU arrives and you keep it in the freezer does it harden into one big lump making it hard to scoop out with your spoon?


When you make your weekly batch, you put the RU powder back in the freezer but where does your freshly mad RU mixture go?  In the fridge, bedside table, anywhere?  Is it ok for a few days from frozen to making the liquid application before the RU breaks down and efficacy is lost.

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## hellouser

> Hellouser I have two questions for you regarding RU mixing.
> 
> When your RU arrives and you keep it in the freezer does it harden into one big lump making it hard to scoop out with your spoon?


 No.




> When you make your weekly batch, you put the RU powder back in the freezer but where does your freshly mad RU mixture go?  In the fridge, bedside table, anywhere?  Is it ok for a few days from frozen to making the liquid application before the RU breaks down and efficacy is lost.


 I keep in my drawer next to my computer desk in my room. Always away from light. RU is stable for at least 1 week at room temperature.

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## zephyrprime

> When you make your weekly batch, you put the RU powder back in the freezer but where does your freshly mad RU mixture go?  In the fridge, bedside table, anywhere?  Is it ok for a few days from frozen to making the liquid application before the RU breaks down and efficacy is lost.


 I keep mine in the freezer in a eye dropper.  The solution is full of alcohol so it won't freeze even in a freezer.  I use an eye dropper because I find that is the most efficient way to apply it.  By eye dropper I don't mean the kind typically used in chemistry, I mean a little bottle like Visine is sold in.  It's much more convenient than a hand dropper.

Also, judging by RU58841's molecular structure, the reason why it is so unstable is because it has 3 fluorine atoms in it.  Fluorine is very reactive.  It probably reacts to oxygen in the air so the key to maintaining it is to keep oxygen away from it.  A tank of CO2 might be usefull.  It's pretty cheap to buy a co2 cartidge from a sporting goods store.

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## StayThick

Hellouser: I finally got everything in and I am ready to start my first RU application. My dining room table looks like a chemist lab right now.

Just to confirm for my own sake. For a 5% solution, I am going to mix 50mg of RU with 1ML of KB solution correct? (I went the KB route).

I'll make 7 bottles of these mixtures and store all of them in the fridge so I have 1 weeks worth at a time. The remaining RU powder I am going to store in the freezer with zip lock bags as you mentioned. Where do I store the unused bottle of KB solution? Fridge as well?

Am I doing this correctly? 1ML doesn't seem like it will cover my diffuse NW6 pattern head, but I'm going to start there. Thoughts?

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## Cob984

Staythick keep us updated bro, asap, especially on the sides front, for now i have ordered premixed 2&#37; to test the sides, If all goes well im going to use RU as my main treatment

Also why dont you use 25 mg per ml and use 2 ml? More scalp coverage and same RU in weight

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## FearTheLoss

I honestly think RU is the best treatment we have available right now. I had terrible sides with oral fin, and none with RU and RU is doing good for my hairline...little hairs growing everywhere. I'm a damn hair farmer.

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## MrBlonde

> I honestly think RU is the best treatment we have available right now. I had terrible sides with oral fin, and none with RU and RU is doing good for my hairline...little hairs growing everywhere. I'm a damn hair farmer.


 
Is RU the only product your on or are you using a growth stimulant like Minox?

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## StayThick

Anybody know if I need to store my unsed 250ml KB solution in the fridge? Can I leave it outside in room temperature?

Please let me know your thoughts.

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## Cob984

I think its safer in the fridge,
Have you already started RU stay thick? hows it going so far? you using 5&#37;?

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## thechamp

Ru side effects what are the side effects of ru is it safe?

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## goldbondmafia

> Great thread Hellouser, However if anyone outside US he can order the RU pre mixed product ready from www.mpbtreatments.com and spare himself from the headache


 do any of you guys buy the pre mixed from here?

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## jlantern

> do any of you guys buy the pre mixed from here?


 There are a few that have bought the premixed, but I cant remember who they are right now.  Try searching MPB RU or premix RU MPB, that might show who uses it.  The ones I know that use it have started recently with it.  Give them a few months to report good or bad results.

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## goldbondmafia

> There are a few that have bought the premixed, but I cant remember who they are right now.  Try searching MPB RU or premix RU MPB, that might show who uses it.  The ones I know that use it have started recently with it.  Give them a few months to report good or bad results.


 Fair enough man thanks for the response. It seems like it would be so much easier to use a pre mixed version rather than creating a weekly batch yourself imo.

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## jlantern

> Fair enough man thanks for the response. It seems like it would be so much easier to use a pre mixed version rather than creating a weekly batch yourself imo.


 Indeed, I think some people are concerned about the stability in a premixed.  I've heard a lot of things about how long it stays good.  we'll see

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## tdo

> Fair enough man thanks for the response. It seems like it would be so much easier to use a pre mixed version rather than creating a weekly batch yourself imo.


 I dont think its too bad to make your own batch.  Just buy KB solution and mix a weeks worth at a time.  Making daily batches is probably too tedious and not needed IMO.

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## MrBlonde

> I dont think its too bad to make your own batch.  Just buy KB solution and mix a weeks worth at a time.  Making daily batches is probably too tedious and not needed IMO.


 I just started on RU and have made two batches, my first was a daily batch and my second was to last me four days.  

I got all the equipment Hellouser suggested before hand, the first daily was a bit messy but the second four day batch was a doddle, it took less than 3 minutes to make with the KB solution.  Thats less than 3 mins for a 4 day batch, there is nothing hard about it and you are ensuring maximum efficacy of the RU

This is your hair your talking about so efficacy is key. 

Its so easy once you are prepared and have your mg doses right in your head before hand, applying also becomes quicker the more you do it, you can do it in less than a minute, and i have long hair, its easy once you have identificated the key application spots.

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## goldbondmafia

> I just started on RU and have made two batches, my first was a daily batch and my second was to last me four days.  
> 
> I got all the equipment Hellouser suggested before hand, the first daily was a bit messy but the second four day batch was a doddle, it took less than 3 minutes to make with the KB solution.  Thats less than 3 mins for a 4 day batch, there is nothing hard about it and you are ensuring maximum efficacy of the RU
> 
> This is your hair your talking about so efficacy is key. 
> 
> Its so easy once you are prepared and have your mg doses right in your head before hand, applying also becomes quicker the more you do it, you can do it in less than a minute, and i have long hair, its easy once you have identificated the key application spots.


 How much did all the materials for a months worth cost ya? Only asking to see if it would be cheaper than pre mixed

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## Hairismylife

I ordered pre-mixed RU from mpbt about 6 weeks ago, but it take quite a while to arrive :Mad:  (I am Hong Kong-er). I don't have a dropper right now so I just use my finger to apply it temporarily. My solution is 2% for side effect testing. If ok then i'll order from Kane to make myself. Up to now, no side effects :Smile:

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## yan

Hey guys, I`ve got some questions regarding RU and hope you can help me. 

Is it possible to buy PG and everclear alcohol in europe without prescription? If not, is there something else I could use? 

The more important question for me. One year ago, I took Fin 1.0mg a day for 5 months. Quit due to sides (ED issues, zero libido, slight gyno). 

Around a month ago, I started again with 0.25mg fin twice a week. No ED issues so far, only bit lower libido. But again I start to feel like a slight gyno is about to develop again...  :Frown:  I dont know what to do anymore. 

How likely is it, that I develop gyno from RU, if I obviously cant tolerate a low fin dose? 
Are there some people who had gyno issues with fin, but no issues with RU? 

Low libido is no problem for me, but gyno is. I cant tolerate having moobs.

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## FearTheLoss

> I ordered pre-mixed RU from mpbt about 6 weeks ago, but it take quite a while to arrive (I am Hong Kong-er). I don't have a dropper right now so I just use my finger to apply it temporarily. My solution is 2% for side effect testing. If ok then i'll order from Kane to make myself. Up to now, no side effects


 
definitely make yourself..MPBT has given shitty RU before

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## nliyan25

Is CB called CB-GB-2013 on the Kane's website? I wanna make sure this is the right one.

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## hellouser

> Is CB called CB-GB-2013 on the Kane's website? I wanna make sure this is the right one.


 No, its this one:

http://www.thekaneshop.com/index.php...-form-iii.html

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## goldbondmafia

> No, its this one:
> 
> http://www.thekaneshop.com/index.php...-form-iii.html


 hellouser, I remember you said you were going to use CB instead of RU in another thread, how come? Did RU not give the results you were hoping for?

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## hellouser

> hellouser, I remember you said you were going to use CB instead of RU in another thread, how come? Did RU not give the results you were hoping for?


 I don't want to meddle with hormones and DHT, CB doesn't have side effects. My libido did drop during RU but I also did double up on saw palmetto (could have been that). Besides, CB is supposed to be up to 4X as effective as RU.

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## locke999

> I don't want to meddle with hormones and DHT, CB doesn't have side effects. My libido did drop during RU but I also did double up on saw palmetto (could have been that). Besides, CB is supposed to be up to 4X as effective as RU.


 How much faith do you have in CB. I read the CB thread and there wasn't definite indication on which vehicle to use and you don't have a iontophoresis machine.

Also, you seem to be very knowledgeable in chemistry, may I ask what your profession is or how you are so familiar with this stuff?

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## hellouser

> How much faith do you have in CB. I read the CB thread and there wasn't definite indication on which vehicle to use and you don't have a iontophoresis machine.[/qoute]
> 
> Iontophoresis wouldn't be a machine, it'd be a device, you can make your own but those typically involve pans and are made for hands. The problem is zapping your scalp with it, and I've only seen ONE device like that on eBay but I've heard it junk.


 


> Also, you seem to be very knowledgeable in chemistry, may I ask what your profession is or how you are so familiar with this stuff?


 I'm in advertising and marketing (design/web/photography). Far from a chemist. However since I noticed a while back some unflattering pictures of myself a couple of years ago, I've consumed myself HEAVILY with information on anything and everything that can stop and reverse this damn disease.

I won't be happy until I can look myself in the mirror without worry and go out into society with confidence as balding and especially bald men are treated with less worth.

----------


## nliyan25

Hellouser, thanks for the response. Its great that CB happens to be somewhat cheaper than RU, as well. Do you happen to have any instructions on what to mix it with, in order to make a vehicle (i.e. PG, Everclear, etc.)?

----------


## Unsure1

Your guide was invaluable hellrouser, thank you! I just made my first batch for the next three days. I'm just a tad confused however, I regards to strength of solution, your 100mg of ru per ml works out to be what percentage In strength? Say if we were to make weekly batches following your formula, we would just times everything by 7 yea? Again thanks so much I'm very hopeful!

----------


## DesperateOne

> I'm in advertising and marketing (design/web/photography). Far from a chemist. However since I noticed a while back some unflattering pictures of myself a couple of years ago, I've consumed myself HEAVILY with information on anything and everything that can stop and reverse this damn disease.
> 
> I won't be happy until I can look myself in the mirror without worry and go out into society with confidence as balding and especially bald men are treated with less worth.


 Thank you for everything, this thread is really good. I want to ask you how much on average does it cost per month, would you say.

----------


## nliyan25

Hey Hellouser,

I received my RU58841 recently and I haven't opened it yet, but just feeling it in  the bags, it feels mushy, kind of like jello. Is it supposed to feel that way?

Also, do you have any instructions on how to use CB?

----------


## hellouser

> Hey Hellouser,
> 
> I received my RU58841 recently and I haven't opened it yet, but just feeling it in  the bags, it feels mushy, kind of like jello. Is it supposed to feel that way?
> 
> Also, do you have any instructions on how to use CB?


 RU should look and feel like regular flour, might feel like jello in a bag though. Just open it and see. Of course, it will not look anything like flour when mixed with alcohol, lol. It will dissolve completely and look as if it disappeared.

CB prep depends on the vehicle. Oleyl/PG should be the best vehicle for now, but 0.1ml of Oleyl and 0.9ml of PG. So, more or less the same way as RU.

Some people have had success with CB in ethanol/PG, but 50/50 concentration of each.

----------


## simba

> RU should look and feel like regular flour, might feel like jello in a bag though. Just open it and see. Of course, it will not look anything like flour when mixed with alcohol, lol. It will dissolve completely and look as if it disappeared.
> 
> CB prep depends on the vehicle. Oleyl/PG should be the best vehicle for now, but 0.1ml of Oleyl and 0.9ml of PG. So, more or less the same way as RU.
> 
> Some people have had success with CB in ethanol/PG, but 50/50 concentration of each.


 Could you link me to the people who have had success with CB?

----------


## hellouser

> Could you link me to the people who have had success with CB?


 I dont remember the source. Sorry.

----------


## nliyan25

> RU should look and feel like regular flour, might feel like jello in a bag though. Just open it and see. Of course, it will not look anything like flour when mixed with alcohol, lol. It will dissolve completely and look as if it disappeared.
> 
> CB prep depends on the vehicle. Oleyl/PG should be the best vehicle for now, but 0.1ml of Oleyl and 0.9ml of PG. So, more or less the same way as RU.
> 
> Some people have had success with CB in ethanol/PG, but 50/50 concentration of each.


 Would ever clear be ok instead Oleyl?

----------


## hellouser

> Would ever clear be ok instead Oleyl?


 Not as good, but possibly good enough. If youre dermarolling penetration should be significantly better.

----------


## abrorcasanova

He guys, I apologies in advance if this is a wrong or incorrect place to do so.

Due to urgent need of cash, I need sell my RU + KB solution that are 2 months old. I never opened themand kept them in a freezer) I bought them in bulk in advance, but due to financial reasons need to get rid of them. I purchased them from KANE and can show my receipt.

Again! if this A wrong place to do so, or wrong part of the forum, I would appreciate if the moderators would remove my post.

Thank you.

----------


## win200

Finally made the call to get on RU.  If I'm in the States, what's my best option for getting ahold of it?  Kane?

Thanks!

----------


## nliyan25

Can Minox and RU58841 be put on the scalp at the same time? I ask because I don't want any issues with the two mixing together.

----------


## hellouser

> Finally made the call to get on RU.  If I'm in the States, what's my best option for getting ahold of it?  Kane?
> 
> Thanks!


 Kane is best, by far.

----------


## hellouser

> Can Minox and RU58841 be put on the scalp at the same time? I ask because I don't want any issues with the two mixing together.


 Yes, both can be applied. You could potentially make a 'supermix' containing CB, Minox, ASC, AHK, PSI, etc. etc. all at the same time, there shouldnt be problems... although who knows, its probably never been done.

If youre going to apply RU and Minox separately, you should go with RU first and THEN minox. Many of the vehicles for Minoxidl use some kind of film that won't allow RU in ethanol/pg to break through as well. Although I've only read this as a suggestion elsewhere, I've always followed this rule. RU is more important than Minox anyway.

----------


## nliyan25

> Not as good, but possibly good enough. If youre dermarolling penetration should be significantly better.


 
If mixing CB with PG and Everclear, what should the ratio of both be--3 ml of PG and 7 ml of Everclear? How many mg of CB?

I'm currently mixing 100 mg of RU with 3 ml of PG and 7 ml of Everclear and dries very quickly on my scalp.

----------


## DesperateOne

> If mixing CB with PG and Everclear, what should the ratio of both be--3 ml of PG and 7 ml of Everclear? How many mg of CB?
> 
> I'm currently mixing 100 mg of RU with 3 ml of PG and 7 ml of Everclear and dries very quickly on my scalp.


 Are you planning to quit RU for CB? I think you should keep using RU at the same time because if it doesn't work then you will lose everything you gained with RU and CB is just experimental at best.

----------


## hellouser

> If mixing CB with PG and Everclear, what should the ratio of both be--3 ml of PG and 7 ml of Everclear? How many mg of CB?
> 
> I'm currently mixing 100 mg of RU with 3 ml of PG and 7 ml of Everclear and dries very quickly on my scalp.


 I'm using an equal 50/50 ratio of ethanol to PG mix. However, no one really knows what the vehicle is much less the ratio of substances inside it.

----------


## clandestine

hellouser; question re: Kane; 

Just wondering, when sending payment to Kane via western union all it requires is his first name, last name, and country? 

Seemed a bit odd to me at first that there were only three pieces of information necessary to locate his account.

----------


## clandestine

hell, you're in Toronto, where did you purchase Everclear Alcohol?

----------


## hellouser

> hell, you're in Toronto, where did you purchase Everclear Alcohol?


 Buffalo! Had to pay taxes when they asked me if im bringing any alcohol with me. My hair is worth the money though.

----------


## hellouser

> hellouser; question re: Kane; 
> 
> Just wondering, when sending payment to Kane via western union all it requires is his first name, last name, and country? 
> 
> Seemed a bit odd to me at first that there were only three pieces of information necessary to locate his account.


 Yup;

First Name, Last Name, Country & City.

Then just email him the MTCN number with your info and you'll be fine.

----------


## clandestine

> Buffalo! Had to pay taxes when they asked me if im bringing any alcohol with me. My hair is worth the money though.


 Uhg. This is the missing piece for me. There's no way you could use Rubbing Alcohol, like 95% Isopropyl right?

----------


## clandestine

I'm also having a terrible time finding PG propylene glycol, if you could tell me where you purchased that.

I've gone to Shoppers and another pharmacy, and their both saying they don't carry it..

----------


## hellouser

> Uhg. This is the missing piece for me. There's no way you could use Rubbing Alcohol, like 95&#37; Isopropyl right?


 If youre in Toronto I might be able to spare you about 500ml. I did buy extra the last time I went there. PG is easy to get, just waltz into a Shoppers Drug Mart and ask one of the pharmacists for about 200ml of it. Should only cost $5 or less.

----------


## clandestine

> If youre in Toronto I might be able to spare you about 500ml. I did buy extra the last time I went there. PG is easy to get, just waltz into a Shoppers Drug Mart and ask one of the pharmacists for about 200ml of it. Should only cost $5 or less.


 I appreciate it, hell. I'll have to pass for now, though. I caved and purchased the eth(70)/pg(30) vehicle from mpbt, as ridiculously overpriced as it is. I just don't have the time.

Honestly, I tried 3 different Shoppers, the Loblaws Pharmacy and the Walmart Pharmacy. None could help me with the PG. I guess it's different in your area for some reason, or the Shoppers you went to.

----------


## win200

> Yup;
> 
> First Name, Last Name, Country & City.
> 
> Then just email him the MTCN number with your info and you'll be fine.


 I can second this.  I was skeptical as well, but my order was just shipped.  I emailed with the MTCN number (which a kiosk or the Western Union agent will print for you) and my order number.  No problems whatsoever.

----------


## DesperateOne

I just got my RU today, it was kinda cold, very well packaged. I will put it in the freezer and wait for about 4 more months until I am done with the derma rolling trial. You guys said it will last about 1 year in the freezer right?

----------


## burtandernie

How do you guys know RU doesnt go systemic or that it penetrates well enough and stays in the right spot to be effective?

----------


## DesperateOne

> How do you guys know RU doesnt go systemic or that it penetrates well enough and stays in the right spot to be effective?


 They just know

----------


## Jazz1

Ru does go systematic I had sides over night 5% took about half hour restart my **** it wouldn't go up! Some people who are sensitive might get sides but they will go away quicker when stopped compared to propecia. I suggest start low dosage until your body adjusts.

----------


## clandestine

> Ru does go systematic I had sides over night 5% took about half hour restart my **** it wouldn't go up! Some people who are sensitive might get sides but they will go away quicker when stopped compared to propecia. I suggest start low dosage until your body adjusts.


 You must've been terribly sensitive, to have had erectile problems at 50mg. 

Have you tried fin? Are you sensitive to other aa's?

----------


## UK_

When will Iron Dragon be ready to ship CB?  He's taking forever, I'm not placing an order until it's ready to ship.

----------


## clandestine

> When will Iron Dragon be ready to ship CB?  He's taking forever, I'm not placing an order until it's ready to ship.


 I wouldn't wait on it. Just order from Kane and use an eth/PG vehicle.

Seems easier..

----------


## Cob984

Hey clandestine, did mpb ship your ethanol yet? iv got no shipment confirmation

----------


## clandestine

> Hey clandestine, did mpb ship your ethanol yet? iv got no shipment confirmation


 Just checked; I have not. This is disconcerting.

Are they entirely out of business? I understood they were out of RU, but are they slipping on everything?

Well, I think we have 30 days to file a PayPal dispute. Keep me posted, Cob. I'll do the same.

----------


## clandestine

Subject: No order confirmation? Tracking number?

Hello,

I've just ordered the Ethanol /PG vehicle in a 3 pack a couple days ago.

I've yet to receive a shipping number, or even an order confirmation to my email address.

Any clarification or insights you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,


//

Just sent this. I recommend you send something similar, but not the same.

----------


## DesperateOne

> Subject: No order confirmation? Tracking number?
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I've just ordered the Ethanol /PG vehicle in a 3 pack a couple days ago.
> 
> I've yet to receive a shipping number, or even an order confirmation to my email address.
> 
> Any clarification or insights you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
> ...


 Jus the Ethanol / PG vehicle? Or mixed with RU. I thought RU was suppose to spoil in like 2 months if premixed, that's why I bought the powder instead and it's in my freezer now.

----------


## Cob984

read somewhere another guy did the same and they did not respond,
he filed a claim too

inspite of that i ordered this cause im so fkin desperate
good hairloss is making me a retard as well, excellent,

----------


## clandestine

> read somewhere another guy did the same and they did not respond,
> he filed a claim too
> 
> inspite of that i ordered this cause im so fkin desperate
> good hairloss is making me a retard as well, excellent,


 **** that sucks. Alright well I'll give it a little bit to see if they respond.

----------


## nliyan25

> If youre in Toronto I might be able to spare you about 500ml. I did buy extra the last time I went there. PG is easy to get, just waltz into a Shoppers Drug Mart and ask one of the pharmacists for about 200ml of it. Should only cost $5 or less.


 
Hellouser, if we want to pre-make a weeks' worth of RU(meaning RU powder+everclear+PG), and keep it in a small bottle, would we have to keep that small bottle in the freezer or fridge and kept away from light? Or does that only really apply to the powder itself?

----------


## hellouser

> Hellouser, if we want to pre-make a weeks' worth of RU(meaning RU powder+everclear+PG), and keep it in a small bottle, would we have to keep that small bottle in the freezer or fridge and kept away from light? Or does that only really apply to the powder itself?


 I kept mine in my drawer next to my computer desk at home, away from light. RU is supposed to be stable for at least a few weeks, I think up to 6 weeks. I usually made 5 day batches at once so it made things significantly easier on maintenance.

The powder definitely needs to be stored in the freezer, air tight and away from light.

----------


## DesperateOne

> I kept mine in my drawer next to my computer desk at home, away from light. RU is supposed to be stable for at least a few weeks, I think up to 6 weeks. I usually made 5 day batches at once so it made things significantly easier on maintenance.
> 
> The powder definitely needs to be stored in the freezer, air tight and away from light.


 But the powder form stays good for about a year right? I still have mine unopened in the freezer, it's been around 1 week since it arrived.

----------


## hellouser

> But the powder form stays good for about a year right? I still have mine unopened in the freezer, it's been around 1 week since it arrived.


 As long as its in the freezer, it should last about a year

----------


## dan1938

> If youre in Toronto I might be able to spare you about 500ml. I did buy extra the last time I went there. PG is easy to get, just waltz into a Shoppers Drug Mart and ask one of the pharmacists for about 200ml of it. Should only cost $5 or less.


 I live in Toronto, north york region and went to Shoppers in Yorkdale mall to find some of the supplies..the only thing i found was the dropper :Confused: .could you tell me where I can find the rest?

----------


## hellouser

> I live in Toronto, north york region and went to Shoppers in Yorkdale mall to find some of the supplies..the only thing i found was the dropper.could you tell me where I can find the rest?


 Everclear you'll need to buy in Buffalo. 1L sells for about $20. When crossing the border, *if* one of the guards asks if you have alcohol, you'll end up paying about another $20 in taxes. Canadian regulation states you cannot bring back alcohol from USA without paying taxes if you've been in USA less than 48 hours. So, you'll either have to lie that you dont have alcohol and hope they don't check your car for inspections nshit, or lie and tell them you've been away for a few days.

No heres the more important question:

You've already resorted to signing up on this forum and your first question is in regards to acquiring stuff for RU applications which means you value your hair enough to go the extra step. With that said, is your hair important enough to you to go to Buffalo and spend roughly $40 for Everclear?

This is the place where I got mine:

http://www.whatsyouroutlet.com/

----------


## dan1938

> Everclear you'll need to buy in Buffalo. 1L sells for about $20. When crossing the border, *if* one of the guards asks if you have alcohol, you'll end up paying about another $20 in taxes. Canadian regulation states you cannot bring back alcohol from USA without paying taxes if you've been in USA less than 48 hours. So, you'll either have to lie that you dont have alcohol and hope they don't check your car for inspections nshit, or lie and tell them you've been away for a few days.
> 
> No heres the more important question:
> 
> You've already resorted to signing up on this forum and your first question is in regards to acquiring stuff for RU applications which means you value your hair enough to go the extra step. With that said, is your hair important enough to you to go to Buffalo and spend roughly $40 for Everclear?
> 
> This is the place where I got mine:
> 
> http://www.whatsyouroutlet.com/


 my hair is important enough, but not enough to get me in to a car, i have driving anxiety :EEK!:  is the only alternative to using everclear, KB? and which shoppers can i find PG in?
a little background on me; I have been using Fin for two years with good results but I can't deal with the sides anymore. I have been tapering off for 3 months now, however as of a week ago I started experiencing the notorious itch and crawly feeling ,so I am back on it every 3 days until I go on RU. I am intensely researching topical absorption and pharmacology, have been reading a few books. I believe any tangible solution for hair loss will come from one of these forums not from big pharma, at least not in the near future. So, I want to contribute what can here!

----------


## Travbedaman

I've live in Florida where they don't sell anything above 151 proof. Is it legal if I order everclear 190 proof online and have it shipped to me?

Maybe once customs releases my RU and I get my everclear we can get this party started, lol.

----------


## hellouser

> I've live in Florida where they don't sell anything above 151 proof. Is it legal if I order everclear 190 proof online and have it shipped to me?
> 
> Maybe once customs releases my RU and I get my everclear we can get this party started, lol.


 Here's a place you can buy some, but only a little bit:

http://anageninc.com/home-page-produ...nol-100ml.html

----------


## dan1938

I just started using RU a couple of days ago. I am using isopropanol instead of the absolute alcohol, I don't it makes much difference as there are some guys reporting success with it!

----------


## kmit028

This is probably a stupid question but can someone clarify for me the concentration calculation:

is 10% = 100mg/1ml
or 10% = 10mg/1ml 

I want to find out how much RU you get in the pre mixed solution from Anagen...

thanks guys  :Smile:

----------


## Dan26

> This is probably a stupid question but can someone clarify for me the concentration calculation:
> 
> is 10% = 100mg/1ml
> or 10% = 10mg/1ml 
> 
> I want to find out how much RU you get in the pre mixed solution from Anagen...
> 
> thanks guys


 10% = 100mg/1ml broski

I believe anagen is offering 3%, 5% and 8% (30mg/1ml, 50mg/1ml, 80mg/1ml)

5% will cost you close to 100bucks after shipping...50ml of that solution would equal 50mgX50ml = 2.5grams of RU powder. Much cheaper to order powder and liquid separately, but if your trying for the first time and want to just see if it works for you, go for the premade (or if $$$ is not an isssue)

----------


## kmit028

> 10% = 100mg/1ml broski
> 
> I believe anagen is offering 3%, 5% and 8% (30mg/1ml, 50mg/1ml, 80mg/1ml)
> 
> 5% will cost you close to 100bucks after shipping...50ml of that solution would equal 50mgX50ml = 2.5grams of RU powder. Much cheaper to order powder and liquid separately, but if your trying for the first time and want to just see if it works for you, go for the premade (or if $$$ is not an isssue)


 well I just did a calculation and the cost of 5% shipped is $67 + $35 = $102 (this is for 50mg x 50ml = 2.5gram total) therefore cost per gram is $102/2.5 = $40 

and the cost of raw RU 5gram is $180 + $35 = $215, cost per gram is $215/5 = $43 (plus you would need to pay for the vehicle on top)

so it looks like the pre-mixed solution is cheaper! (or maybe I made a mistake lol)  :Confused:

----------


## Pocco

> I live in Toronto, north york region and went to Shoppers in Yorkdale mall to find some of the supplies..the only thing i found was the dropper.could you tell me where I can find the rest?


 hey Dan,
I also live in Canada, in Alberta.  I am also using RU, and i purchased Propylene glycol from shoppers drugmart.  You will have to order it at the pharmacy counter, but it takes 2 days at the most to arrive.  It's only $15 for a liter.  I used everclear also, but am now using 95% Ethanol, which i also bought at shoppers drug mart, ordered in once again.  
If you are worried Ethanol won't work (which is pretty much what everclear is) then I found everclear at sobeys liquor.  But it was $40, and ethanol was $5 per liter

hope this helps

----------


## Dan26

5gram 180??? on kaneshop 10g is 225

----------


## lilpauly

> 5gram 180??? on kaneshop 10g is 225


 Or 190 for customers who vp( repeated customers)

----------


## dan1938

> hey Dan,
> I also live in Canada, in Alberta.  I am also using RU, and i purchased Propylene glycol from shoppers drugmart.  You will have to order it at the pharmacy counter, but it takes 2 days at the most to arrive.  It's only $15 for a liter.  I used everclear also, but am now using 95% Ethanol, which i also bought at shoppers drug mart, ordered in once again.  
> If you are worried Ethanol won't work (which is pretty much what everclear is) then I found everclear at sobeys liquor.  But it was $40, and ethanol was $5 per liter
> 
> hope this helps


  thanks for the info man, i will call a few shoppers and see if they can order the alcohol. I have already found the PG and using isopropanol right now. By the way everclear is sold only in Alberta. Ontario has the LCBO, who are a bunch of morons lol. True story they banned crystal head Vodka as they felt the skull is too graphic. By the way how much RU are u using?

----------


## win200

I use both RU and minoxidil foam at night (hate using either in the morning, as it keeps my hair greasy/damp).  Is it OK to layer them?

Also, just switched from CB to RU.  The RU is noticeably clumpier--is that normal?

----------


## robodoc

> you have to be really careful and take pictures if you can - I thought it wasn't working for me so well and stopped it becasue of mild side effects - but I then realized it had stopped my hair loss and actually strenghtened my hair, and noticed a huge shed in the 3 months after I quit.
> 
> So don't just quit unless you are really sure of quitting, because I would pay 2 grant to have the hair I had a year ago and to be able to take fin consistently.


 HAVE YOU  checked your blood work?  If you see low normal WBCs and low normal hgb, hematocrit you may have Fin induced adverse affects.  Decide if your overall health is more important.  Remember if your blood work is abnormal ie, minor anemia could cause hair loss.

No matter consider Ferrous Sulfate 325mg, Vit b12 and good B vitamin part of daily routine if on Fin.

----------


## hellouser

Some cool droppers some of you may want to consider buying:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/180834345089...84.m1423.l2649



If the listing is over, search for "Bach Flower Remedy Dropper Mixing Bottle, 30ml Glass Dosage Pippette + Label NEW"

----------


## robodoc

> I use both RU and minoxidil foam at night (hate using either in the morning, as it keeps my hair greasy/damp).  Is it OK to layer them?
> 
> Also, just switched from CB to RU.  The RU is noticeably clumpier--is that normal?


 
Helouser had very amazing and impressive results with his regimen. How about you?
Thanks.

----------


## win200

> Helouser had very amazing and impressive results with his regimen. How about you?
> Thanks.


 I just switched to RU after using 1g of CB.  Didn't notice any difference on the CB, and too early for RU, though loss seems to be down a little bit (but I also started on dutasteride at the same time, so who knows).  It's also difficult for me to tell if the regimen is reducing miniaturization, because I have a transplanted hairline that covers my natural one.  My hair behind the hairline is extremely thick, so any regrowth would be at the hairline.  I'll keep going, though.

----------


## HairBane

> I just switched to RU after using 1g of CB.  Didn't notice any difference on the CB, and too early for RU, though loss seems to be down a little bit (but I also started on dutasteride at the same time, so who knows).  It's also difficult for me to tell if the regimen is reducing miniaturization, because I have a transplanted hairline that covers my natural one.  My hair behind the hairline is extremely thick, so any regrowth would be at the hairline.  I'll keep going, though.


 Do you think CB worked for maintenance? Get any sides?

----------


## win200

> Do you think CB worked for maintenance? Get any sides?


 No sides.  Didn't notice much difference from CB, so doubt it was doing anything.  I don't shed much regardless, and didn't notice any difference when I stopped to move onto RU.  The vehicle is the problem; like others have noted, CB doesn't dissolve in ethanol--you can see tiny crystals.

----------


## lilpauly

Cosmo presentation this month

----------


## BDDFreak

> Cosmo presentation this month


 Source? And what they might be talking about?

----------


## lilpauly

> Source? And what they might be talking about?


 Cosmo gives updates regarding products. Last presentation they didn't give much info.

----------


## dan1938

anyone have access to the psk3841 studies? I have been scouring the web to come up with the human trials and couldn't come up with anything. I am particularly worried about the fact they discontinued it without disclosing any reason.Were there any side effects?

----------


## hellouser

> anyone have access to the psk3841 studies? I have been scouring the web to come up with the human trials and couldn't come up with anything. I am particularly worried about the fact they discontinued it without disclosing any reason.Were there any side effects?


 Reason was, AFAIK, it was too costly to go through further trials and dropped.

----------


## dan1938

> Reason was, AFAIK, it was too costly to go through further trials and dropped.


 ok, but that doesn't answer why they haven't made the results available to the public. I have even tried emailing them and they never replied.

----------


## Amercancer

Does anybody recommend using RU with rogaine liquid cause that's what just started after just minox. Also when I first started doing this the first night after applying I woke up with a massive headache like never b4. It was so bad I couldn't touch my temple right side. Anybody experience this. Could this b from mixing it with minox. I don't really feel like applying twice on my head at the same time when I can just use it with my rogaine mixed. Should I stick with it?

----------


## dan1938

> Does anybody recommend using RU with rogaine liquid cause that's what just started after just minox. Also when I first started doing this the first night after applying I woke up with a massive headache like never b4. It was so bad I couldn't touch my temple right side. Anybody experience this. Could this b from mixing it with minox. I don't really feel like applying twice on my head at the same time when I can just use it with my rogaine mixed. Should I stick with it?


 I don't think anybody will be able to give you the answer to that. We are all trying an experimental drug and If you experience any issues, you should definitely play it safe and apply them at different times. Your hair is not worth more than your health.

----------


## dan1938

Ru is working for me but systemic absorption is kicking my ass. I have even tried reducing the dose as well as using KB solution to no avail. are there any other vehicles currently being tried that could reduce systemic absorption?

----------


## robodoc

> Ru is working for me but systemic absorption is kicking my ass. I have even tried reducing the dose as well as using KB solution to no avail. are there any other vehicles currently being tried that could reduce systemic absorption?


 I could not find much on solubility and absorption of RU but maybe Hellouser's combo of Everclear and PEG is worth trying.  I have been dissolving the RU in IsoAlcohol 70% and the adding Minox 5% when the RU is in solution. After one week no benficial effect or sides whatsoever so hoping for something!

For the morning, I apply Minox for about 30-45 min while I get ready and then shower off.  Hydro/alcoholic solutions are generally quickly and well absorbed so perhaps a way to get the Minox twice a day.  It may reduce systemic absorption and sides but that is blowing in the wind.

----------


## dan1938

> I could not find much on solubility and absorption of RU but maybe Hellouser's combo of Everclear and PEG is worth trying.  I have been dissolving the RU in IsoAlcohol 70% and the adding Minox 5% when the RU is in solution. After one week no benficial effect or sides whatsoever so hoping for something!
> 
> For the morning, I apply Minox for about 30-45 min while I get ready and then shower off.  Hydro/alcoholic solutions are generally quickly and well absorbed so perhaps a way to get the Minox twice a day.  It may reduce systemic absorption and sides but that is blowing in the wind.


 thanks for the feedback man, it seems like nobody reads these forums nowadays. I have tried isopropanol/PG vehicle as well and it was the same. My skin is weird, it absorbs anything like sponge. I have been thinking about incorporating a vasoconstrictor before application or together with vehicle. They have been shown to prolong local effect and reduce systemic absorption in clinical studies. Liposomes are also good vehicles. I thought KB solution has a liposome and that's why I tried it. From what I have gathered it has 4 ingredients, but I haven't been able to find out what they are. do you have any info on that?

----------


## robodoc

> thanks for the feedback man, it seems like nobody reads these forums nowadays. I have tried isopropanol/PG vehicle as well and it was the same. My skin is weird, it absorbs anything like sponge. I have been thinking about incorporating a vasoconstrictor before application or together with vehicle. They have been shown to prolong local effect and reduce systemic absorption in clinical studies. Liposomes are also good vehicles. I thought KB solution has a liposome and that's why I tried it. From what I have gathered it has 4 ingredients, but I haven't been able to find out what they are. do you have any info on that?


 Liposomal? You are getting high tech and that may improve absorption which is not what you need.  To limit absorption look at this way, reduce amount of time on the skin or duration if you say you absorb well.  Maybe 3 days a week of RU may work, maybe 5 days, etc. I would approach it that way.  It is an experiment for you to find out. .  I would not mess with a vasoconstrictor..

----------


## doke

> RU isn't as good premixed as it degrades quickly, especially when it's not stored properly. (like when it's shipped or caught in customs) Also, 1% RU from  MPB treatments isn't enough RU


 wrong if mixed in kb solution premixed can last up to six months and by the way new mpb solutions will have a 10% premix soon but i suppose  it will be pricey although they have a new vip scheme i like there new site its more profesional then the old site.
I see  anagen ru is cheaper.

----------


## cookies

Doke, could you try to use punctuation? It would make your posts readable.

----------


## doke

[QUOTE=cookies;164652]Doke, could you try to use punctuation? It would make your posts readable.[/QUO

please can you not use punctuation?

----------


## dan1938

> Liposomal? You are getting high tech and that may improve absorption which is not what you need.  To limit absorption look at this way, reduce amount of time on the skin or duration if you say you absorb well.  Maybe 3 days a week of RU may work, maybe 5 days, etc. I would approach it that way.  It is an experiment for you to find out. .  I would not mess with a vasoconstrictor..


 What is your take on copper peptides and fluridil? Since my skin absorption capability is great, I thought these might work for me without the systemic sides.

----------


## doke

mpb treatments new 10% ru normal or plus version $115 would you just use 1ml a day? also its a bit costly at 100mgs a day would kane you still need kb solution and or your own mix or get anagen ru instead which is cheaper?

----------


## doke

I have already posted this news on another thread but kane has told me that he has a company in europe with ru ready mixed at 5% and 8% also the powder is on sale with kb solution so good news for us in europe.

----------


## crochetg

However there is more affordable shipping of just 23.50 at RU-solutions. When you take this into account most all products come out to be nearly IDENTICAL pricing. Also considering how questionable kane's "KB" really is... ONe time he told a fellow PG was an ingredient and was in his solution. PG most definitely is NOT part of the KB formula! lol  So equivalent price for a really well made US product or a sketch unmarked blue bottle that for some reason is *50*mls not even 60ml like any normal treatment would be (minoxidil for example) :EEK!: 

Look at the total price, divide it our by how much RU is actually in each bottle AND consider the fact that you are missing a full 10ml with Kane. Then work out the price/value of the two options.

SO lets see. For a UK customer for example lets compare value

*KANE:*              8&#37;   KBformula 104.89 + $35 Shipping = $139.69    (50ml*0.08 = *4*grams RU)  139.69/4g =  *$34.92/gram*
*RU-SOLUTIONS:*10% KBformula 115 + 23.50 Shipping = $138.5       (60ml *0.1 = *6* grams RU)    138.5/6g  = *$23.08/gram*

And you build loyalty discount points at RU-Solutions ... So... Hmm...

----------


## dan1938

> However there is more affordable shipping of just 23.50 at RU-solutions. When you take this into account most all products come out to be nearly IDENTICAL pricing. Also considering how questionable kane's "KB" really is... ONe time he told a fellow PG was an ingredient and was in his solution. PG most definitely is NOT part of the KB formula! lol  So equivalent price for a really well made US product or a sketch unmarked blue bottle that for some reason is *50*mls not even 60ml like any normal treatment would be (minoxidil for example)
> 
> Look at the total price, divide it our by how much RU is actually in each bottle AND consider the fact that you are missing a full 10ml with Kane. Then work out the price/value of the two options.
> 
> SO lets see. For a UK customer for example lets compare value
> 
> *KANE:*              8%   KBformula 104.89 + $35 Shipping = $139.69    (50ml*0.08 = *4*grams RU)  139.69/4g =  *$34.92/gram*
> *RU-SOLUTIONS:*10% KBformula 115 + 23.50 Shipping = $138.5       (60ml *0.1 = *6* grams RU)    138.5/6g  = *$23.08/gram*
> 
> And you build loyalty discount points at RU-Solutions ... So... Hmm...


 I don't know if it has to do with Kane's way of making KB, but I feel like the KB I got from him has actually worsened the systemic absorption of RU. I also believe it has a vasodilator as I am particularly sensitive to them.

----------


## crochetg

Oh wait get this. I found the message now. Back when Kane first sent people his KB he sent the ingredients to my friend and sent him polysorbate 80 instead of the luviquat FC 550. lol the guy will throw together whatever sketchy stuff he can to sell to his followers begging him to produce X,Y, or Z. He cares nothing about actually getting it right. This is likely why you experienced wired results with him as who the hell knows what your vehicle really was. Could have had DMSO in it for all we know.

----------


## lilpauly

> However there is more affordable shipping of just 23.50 at RU-solutions. When you take this into account most all products come out to be nearly IDENTICAL pricing. Also considering how questionable kane's "KB" really is... ONe time he told a fellow PG was an ingredient and was in his solution. PG most definitely is NOT part of the KB formula! lol  So equivalent price for a really well made US product or a sketch unmarked blue bottle that for some reason is *50*mls not even 60ml like any normal treatment would be (minoxidil for example)
> 
> Look at the total price, divide it our by how much RU is actually in each bottle AND consider the fact that you are missing a full 10ml with Kane. Then work out the price/value of the two options.
> 
> SO lets see. For a UK customer for example lets compare value
> 
> *KANE:*              8&#37;   KBformula 104.89 + $35 Shipping = $139.69    (50ml*0.08 = *4*grams RU)  139.69/4g =  *$34.92/gram*
> *RU-SOLUTIONS:*10% KBformula 115 + 23.50 Shipping = $138.5       (60ml *0.1 = *6* grams RU)    138.5/6g  = *$23.08/gram*
> 
> And you build loyalty discount points at RU-Solutions ... So... Hmm...


 Lets not start another fear campaign Kane's kb solution is legit and so is his ru it's been third party tested by hairykirisna . Fear campaign , shame on h Gerald I though u were not going to do this

----------


## lilpauly

U will selling ru  for 400 dollars for 10 grams and your solution was 79 makes no sense it was probably fake ru, finally the 17ap (cb cream)u are selling us 100&#37; wrong. That's for form 4 , it's also for acne not hair. You already know the results with 17ap (cb cream)were very poor because people bought 70 grams of it your cb with the acne cream and u still continue to sell it. Finally gk the only person who had results with your cb-03-01 said it was cut with something he also says the cream is 100% wrong , Gerald u like  campaigns of fear?

----------


## lilpauly

U also a group buy for rum , people purchased 2 kilos in the group buy. No had results , then go on and sell it for another 2 years and of course no else has results

----------


## crochetg

> Lets not start another fear campaign Kane's kb solution is legit and so is his ru it's been third party tested by hairykirisna . Fear campaign , shame on h Gerald I though u were not going to do this


 His RU is legit. I just recalled today an email from systemsbiology talking about what he actually received as KB. It sparked my memory

----------


## crochetg

> U will selling ru  for 400 dollars for 10 grams and your solution was 79 makes no sense it was probably fake ru, finally the 17ap (cb cream)u are selling us 100% wrong. That's for form 4 , it's also for acne not hair. You already know the results with 17ap (cb cream)were very poor because people bought 70 grams of it your cb with the acne cream and u still continue to sell it. Finally gk the only person who had results with your cb-03-01 said it was cut with something he also says the cream is 100% wrong , Gerald u like  campaigns of fear?


 Who sells CB? Im confused now.

----------


## lilpauly

> Who sells CB? Im confused now.


 U had 2 group buys for cb on stopmpb a few years ago , u did sell cb and u continue to sell the cream

----------


## lilpauly

> His RU is legit. I just recalled today an email from systemsbiology talking about what he actually received as KB. It sparked my memory


 Go sell more ru from your garage , u seem to forget done dude had heart failure on your ru. I see your shipping ru to USA customers , ha!

----------


## crochetg

repost

----------


## cichlidfort

Besides the sides, what's more effective 1 vs 1. RU or Dut?

----------


## simba

> Besides the sides, what's more effective 1 vs 1. RU or Dut?


 No one knows

----------


## lilpauly

Dut is the most powerful item for hairloss

----------


## robodoc

> thanks for the info man, i will call a few shoppers and see if they can order the alcohol. I have already found the PG and using isopropanol right now. By the way everclear is sold only in Alberta. Ontario has the LCBO, who are a bunch of morons lol. True story they banned crystal head Vodka as they felt the skull is too graphic. By the way how much RU are u using?


 I use 70% Isopropyl alcohol, about 5ml per gram of RU.  It does not take long to go into solution, 3-4 minutes I am guessing.  Many substances to not go into solution readily so let it sit, agitate if you want it dissolves.  I don't know why Hellouser uses the Everclear.  Of course, he has had great results so who's to argue his system.

As far as I know RU is soluble in most any percentage alcohol.  I would use the 90% from a pharmacy if convenient just for peace of mind.

----------


## robodoc

> What is your take on copper peptides and fluridil? Since my skin absorption capability is great, I thought these might work for me without the systemic sides.


 My take on copper peptides is they may help open wound healing but do nothing for baldness.  Fluridil, I don't know if it helps but should.  I Stick with the so called tried and tested on the forum here.  We have enough input here to get good results.

(Minox 5% twice daily, RU 50-100mg nightly, Nizoral Shampoo at least twice a week on scalp for 5 min, and maybe Fin 1.25mg daily too).  I believe the first 3 treatments the most important.  As far as I am concerned, everything else is a big Maybe, experimental stuff, supplements.  Good diet always important.

These are my regimens and cannot recommend them for anyone else nor do I have any idea what side effects may occur.  Use at your own discretion.

----------


## UK_

> Besides the sides, what's more effective 1 vs 1. RU or Dut?


 Dut obviously.

----------


## dan1938

I want to clarify what I said in a previous post.

I have no idea whether Kane's KB is real or not, I don't even know what is in it. All I can tell is that it doesn't help with systemic absorption, it actually made my situation worse. So, if you are thinking of buying Kane's KB to reduce systemic absorption, don't. However, for those of you who are not getting enough absorption, then it could work out great for you. can someone PM me or post what is suppose to be in Kane's KB...I want to know why it is not working for my purposes. thanks

----------


## lilpauly

> I want to clarify what I said in a previous post.
> 
> I have no idea whether Kane's KB is real or not, I don't even know what is in it. All I can tell is that it doesn't help with systemic absorption, it actually made my situation worse. So, if you are thinking of buying Kane's KB to reduce systemic absorption, don't. However, for those of you who are not getting enough absorption, then it could work out great for you. can someone PM me or post what is suppose to be in Kane's KB...I want to know why it is not working for my purposes. thanks


 Bro kb solution is 4 basic ingredients . People get sides with kb solution ! It's that simple ,

----------


## lilpauly

Every uses different vehicles for ru , some like Minox (buy regular brand, others kb and finally the most popular 98% ethanol and pg .

----------


## lilpauly

For me I'm going to have to drop ru movi g forward because I'm allergic to erhanol and pg is very bad for , might experiment with other non harsh vehicles

----------


## Amercancer

What do u think about RU mixed with rogaine. Anybody have good experience far as no shedding. If not what should I mix it with.

----------


## doke

has  anyone thought that hellhouser is unsociable as he picks who he talks to and although its up to him what he does its not in the vain of hairloss forums? and i notice im not the onlyone he has a problem with?

----------


## MightyMarc

Guys,

Im just starting to use RU and wandering how I should seal it. My idea is to like this:

- Open RU package en mix first portion
- Squeeze out all the air in the RU package, tape it so air cant come in and put it in the freeze

Or should I use a better way to make sure it stays stable?

----------


## hellouser

> Guys,
> 
> Im just starting to use RU and wandering how I should seal it. My idea is to like this:
> 
> - Open RU package en mix first portion
> - Squeeze out all the air in the RU package, tape it so air cant come in and put it in the freeze
> 
> Or should I use a better way to make sure it stays stable?


 I have mine in a small white plastic bottle that's somewhat air-tight. I then keep in a zip-lock bag as well and put it in the freezer.

----------


## hellouser

> has  anyone thought that hellhouser is unsociable as he picks who he talks to and although its up to him what he does its not in the vain of hairloss forums? and i notice im not the onlyone he has a problem with?


 I have a life outside the forum, I can't be on this 100% of the time even though it pretty much already seems like I am.

----------


## MightyMarc

So your put RU package in a bottle?(and then in zip back) End then just open it to get some powder out once in a while?

----------


## doke

> I have a life outside the forum, I can't be on this 100% of the time even though it pretty much already seems like I am.


 ok hell i withdraw what i said we can get the wrong end of the stick sometimes i just wish i could find something that could regrow bald areas.
Will ru which i have only been using a week regrow bald spots?

----------


## MrBlonde

> ok hell i withdraw what i said we can get the wrong end of the stick sometimes i just wish i could find something that could regrow bald areas.
> Will ru which i have only been using a week regrow bald spots?


 No, it will slow your regression.  I have been using it for months and have lost hair, it has slowed down the process but personally i got zero regrowth from it.

Hellouser also used Minox and CB so you might want to add to your program if you wnt some regrowth.

----------


## DifferentLine

Sorry if this has been asked a million times before, but can you put RU powder straight into minox liquid?

----------


## hellouser

> So your put RU package in a bottle?(and then in zip back) End then just open it to get some powder out once in a while?


 Yes, I make 6-7 day batches of RU at a time. My bottles hold about 7ml so I just make extra for the week. Saves a lot of time.

----------


## hellouser

> Sorry if this has been asked a million times before, but can you put RU powder straight into minox liquid?


 You can but AFAIK minox liquid contains water, which is very bad for RU.

----------


## hellouser

> ok hell i withdraw what i said we can get the wrong end of the stick sometimes i just wish i could find something that could regrow bald areas.
> *Will ru which i have only been using a week regrow bald spots?*


 Ive never seen it happen. I think it works best for diffuse thinners like IrishPride86, but it should significantly slow down your hair loss.

----------


## doke

many thanks hell whats your view on iron dragons cb do you think its worth using with ru.

----------


## hellouser

> many thanks hell whats your view on iron dragons cb do you think its worth using with ru.


 I wouldn't use it, only because they don't release purity results.

----------


## doke

many thanks hell what are your thoughts on scalpmed as the many videos at youtube of users report better regrowth than on just minoxidil and even bald areas regrown.

----------


## hellouser

> many thanks hell what are your thoughts on scalpmed as the many videos at youtube of users report better regrowth than on just minoxidil and even bald areas regrown.


 Never heard of it.

----------


## doke

scalpmed check out you tube videos of regrowth its minoxidil based but you first spray there nutrisol rm on before applying there vitadil agent on scalp.

----------


## HairBane

> scalpmed check out you tube videos of regrowth its minoxidil based but you first spray there nutrisol rm on before applying there vitadil agent on scalp.


 moar liek scammed am i rite

----------


## doke

speak english please?

----------


## goldnt

Been using for ru for 2 weeks from kane. 150mg/3ml and the first 2 days ethanol irritated my scalp, third day had a more than usual shed and then boom i shed a fraction of what i did without it. I literately lose as much hair as a person without mpb. Thanks for your guide hell.  :Smile:  Waiting for my thin hairs to get thicker and may combine it with minox later on.

----------


## nliyan25

I've been using RU since September and I still lose about 30-40 hairs when I apply RU to my scalp. Is this normal? I don't know if I've seen an increase in hair density or not.

----------


## MightyMarc

Guys,

Im using RU now for two weeks but I've some issues with the dissolving of my powder. Everything I mix my RU with minox some little floaks of RU keep floating around in my bottle. And I can seem to get them dissolved. 

Also after I do some RU "sinks" to the bottom. Is this a problem seen more often? And if yes, you guys have a solution for it?

Dear regards, 

Marc

----------


## lilpauly

> Guys,
> 
> Im using RU now for two weeks but I've some issues with the dissolving of my powder. Everything I mix my RU with minox some little floaks of RU keep floating around in my bottle. And I can seem to get them dissolved. 
> 
> Also after I do some RU "sinks" to the bottom. Is this a problem seen more often? And if yes, you guys have a solution for it?
> 
> Dear regards, 
> 
> Marc


 Hi man some Minox brands are not  the best vehicle , it contains to much water .  Kirkland is one of them u need to add a little ethanol 98%l

----------


## ChemicalBrother

Hellouser (or anyone else that wants to chime in)

I've been using premixed RU from anagen in PG vehicle but it seems my scalp is flaking like a 3D christmas card ...

Would it be ok for next time to get raw RU powder (as stated in your OP) ad-nd mix with butylene glycol and ethanol instead of propylene glycol to reduce the scalp flaking ?

thanks for a brilliant post.

----------


## robodoc

> where do you guys buy the everclear I read online that it isnt available in every state.


 
You don't need Everclear.  91% isopropyl and 70% works.  I use the 91%, wait about 5-7 minutes for it to go into solution and add Minox 5% to
make the concentration desired 50-100MG/ml.....results: no hair loss.
1 gram of RU dissolved in 10ml of Isopropyl Alcohol 91% and Minox 5% = 50mg/ml.  I use 2ml daily.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): Store in dark container in refrigerator.  

I also use Nizoral shampoo once a week, Minoxidil 5%, 0.25mg Finasteride daily.  I only wish I had started earlier.  It is a hassle but the results have amazed me.  For me this is the real deal and all those "experimental" products are useless and make some questionable posters some cash. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## lilpauly

> You don't need Everclear.  91% isopropyl and 70% works.  I use the 91%, wait about 5-7 minutes for it to go into solution and add Minox 5% to
> make the concentration desired 50-100MG/ml.....results: no hair loss.
> 1 gram of RU dissolved in 10ml of Isopropyl Alcohol 91% and Minox 5% = 50mg/ml.  I use 2ml daily.  Store in dark container in refrigerator.  
> 
> I also use Nizoral shampoo once a week, Minoxidil 5%, 0.25mg Finasteride daily.  I only wish I had started earlier.  It is a hassle but the results have amazed me.  For me this is the real deal and all those "experimental" products are useless and make some questionable posters some cash.


 It will take ru longer to dissolve !!!!!

----------


## Dan26

isopropyl is very harsh on the scalp!

i would go everclear pg 70/30 (please note everclear has 5% water)...you could also add more water...or do it with kirkland minox but add more ethanol if it wont dissolve

----------


## efedrez

I just got my RU from Kane and all the components suggested by Hellouser, can't wait to see some good results in a few months.

I red that some members are struggling getting Everclear in some states in the US, since its not available for sale everywhere

I'm in Florida and the only way I was able to buy it was from www.winechateau.com, I spent 15USD for a bottle plus 15 for shipment and got it in less than a week

Also found a tutorial in youtube that looks like is using exacting the same vehicle that might be helpful for those doing a batch for the first time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp_XISpHYfc

Hope this helps

----------


## robodoc

> many thanks hell what are your thoughts on scalpmed as the many videos at youtube of users report better regrowth than on just minoxidil and even bald areas regrown.


 
I "think" I know what the ingredients in Scalpmed are.  I do not believe the product does anything for virtually anyone.

I will preach the products on the website---primarily RU, minoxidil, finasteride and Nizoral are the front line products to anyone's hair loss.  Other products, copper peptides, Derm Rollers, and oral supplements may help but I believe Scalp Med is sold strictly as testamonial and experimental products such as IRON DRAGON sells are money down the drain, IMHO.

Focus on the products that are becoming the tried and true if that is not exaggerating.  Save your money and don't waste on the bs products.  The scalpers prey on newbies wanting to try their hair loss products and could give a rat's heineken about your ass.

----------


## StayThick

Guys, I received Kane's "premixed" RU and fortunately for me, the pre-mixed version has not caused eye irritation or tingly nipples after instant application like Kane's powdered version mixed in KB Solution. I'm starting to think the KB Solution was the issue with my sides, while the batch I have now is premixed in the PG and Ethanol.

My question is, how often is everyone applying and how much? Should I apply 1.5ml (enough to cover my balding areas) EOD or every day. I'm excited I'm seeing no sides, but it is early. Should I start at EOD application?

What is everyone doing. Please chime in. Thanks.

----------


## Cob984

Lol bro theres no way you are going to escape sides on eth/pg compared to KB,
Kb sides are way reduced compared to eth/pg which has no time release or film formation of any kind
but i hope somehow it works out and u escape

----------


## StayThick

> Lol bro theres no way you are going to escape sides on eth/pg compared to KB,
> Kb sides are way reduced compared to eth/pg which has no time release or film formation of any kind
> but i hope somehow it works out and u escape


 I had instant eye redness and puffy nipples on RU with KB. That has not been the case and I have applied this now 3 times in his premixed version. I'm going to use EOD and monitor sides.

This is really my last hope regarding inhibiting DHT somehow. I can't take any other anti androgen. Let's see what happens, as it's still early, but I'm liking how my body is reacting at the moment. Wish me luck. 

And I don't believe that KB protected film BS. It caused me dreadful sides. I'm not buying it just because that's what they claim.

----------


## TwoInchCircle

This may be a dumb question, but Im about to start using CB @1% from Kane, but Im only putting it on my crown. 

Ive seen in many posts people using 1ml of topicals, but they seem to be using it on large portions of their scalps. 

So Im wondering that if 1ml is a minimum or if .5ml would suffice for a smaller area like Im applying to?

----------


## DifferentLine

Got a quick question about RU storage:

Is it necessary to store RU in the freezer? How long would the powder last at room temperature in an airtight container?

I live in a shared house, so storing it in a freezer isn't really an easy option.

----------


## DifferentLine

> This may be a dumb question, but Im about to start using CB @1% from Kane, but Im only putting it on my crown. 
> 
> Ive seen in many posts people using 1ml of topicals, but they seem to be using it on large portions of their scalps. 
> 
> So Im wondering that if 1ml is a minimum or if .5ml would suffice for a smaller area like Im applying to?


 You'd be fine applying just 0.5ml to your crown

----------


## goldnt

> Got a quick question about RU storage:
> 
> Is it necessary to store RU in the freezer? How long would the powder last at room temperature in an airtight container?
> 
> I live in a shared house, so storing it in a freezer isn't really an easy option.


 Yea its necessary otherwise the ru will go bad. I know from experience. Keep it in the freezer and thats the only way it will last. At room temp maybe a couple hours till it goes bad.

----------


## hellouser

> Yea its necessary otherwise the ru will go bad. I know from experience. Keep it in the freezer and thats the only way it will last. *At room temp maybe a couple hours till it goes bad.*


 FALSE.

I clearly stated that I made several days worth of batches and RU worked perfectly fine for me.

----------


## goldnt

> FALSE.
> 
> I clearly stated that I made several days worth of batches and RU worked perfectly fine for me.


 He's talking about when its not mixed. In powder form.

----------


## hellouser

> He's talking about when its not mixed. In powder form.


 It last several days at least when its being shipped in powder form. Think about it.

----------


## DifferentLine

Guess I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and put it in the freezer. What's a good excuse to come up with if its found by someone? lol

----------


## hellouser

> Guess I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and put it in the freezer. What's a good excuse to come up with if its found by someone? lol


 You're related to Rob Ford.

----------


## goldnt

> It last several days at least when its being shipped in powder form. Think about it.


 True but it came cool when it arrived in a sealed aluminum bag.

----------


## lilpauly

Ru is stable at room temp for a very very long time , my ru got stuck in customs for weeks , and it was tested and it was still 99.99 pure .!! U can store ru in the refrig . Me personally storing ru is a no go.

----------


## DifferentLine

*I sent an email to anagen inc (where I ordered my RU from) inquiring about how long it was going to last at room temperature and in the freezer, here's the response I got:* 

_Dear friend,

Thanks for your contact!

We tested our RU solutions within room temperature (25 C degrees +-), 
it seem stable for more than 5 months. However for longer storage, 
please store the solution refrigerated (3-8 .C degrees)


We're still testing each month for stability as for long term. As for 
now results are promising with our stable ROS.

the raw powder is stable in room temperature for at least 6 months, or 
2 years at -18 C. degrees.

If you have any questions left, please contact with us directly, we 
are here 24/7 for you!
Warm regards,

Anagen inc_

----------


## FearTheLoss

hellouser or anyone else...

where is everyone ordering RU form these days, specifically to the USA? How's it working?

FTL

----------


## burtandernie

Is RU or CB safer/better to use? I would think CB would be safer even though its not fully studied yet

----------


## Boldy

@ burtandernie chronic use studies are not completed for Cb03-01. So no data on safety  on longterm either. the price is also very high and thus far there is no real proven vehicle yet.

I Just came across these results on other forum from member swooping.

Before
http://s4.postimg.org/p0slvu0l9/DSC_0019.jpg

after
http://postimg.org/image/7xq0g8yrz/



 he is +- 8 months on Ru + Minox.

there is some regrowth there in the temples  :Smile:  you don't see that often..

----------


## Mike K

> @ burtandernie chronic use studies are not completed for Cb03-01. So no data on safety  on longterm either. the price is also very high and thus far there is no real proven vehicle yet.
> 
> I Just came across these results on other forum from member swooping.
> 
> Before
> http://s4.postimg.org/p0slvu0l9/DSC_0019.jpg
> 
> after
> http://postimg.org/image/7xq0g8yrz/
> ...


 Impressive...

Do you know if he is using minox as the vehicle or if not what vehicle he is using?

----------


## cichlidfort

> @ burtandernie chronic use studies are not completed for Cb03-01. So no data on safety  on longterm either. the price is also very high and thus far there is no real proven vehicle yet.
> 
> I Just came across these results on other forum from member swooping.
> 
> Before
> http://s4.postimg.org/p0slvu0l9/DSC_0019.jpg
> 
> after
> http://postimg.org/image/7xq0g8yrz/
> ...


 Ugh I wish people knew how to take better before and after pictures. You can kind of see some improvement but based off the pictures it's hard to judge how much. Looks like something is working though.. maybe.

----------


## doke

Why on earth would you buy the powder when kane now sells premixed i am using the 5% ru pre mixed in kb solution and suffer no problems.
Its well mixed with no lumps and quite frankly fantastic thankyou anagen if your out there for producing ru at a good price and quick delivery to uk.
I do hope that anagen does a premix cb as well as i would buy it.

----------


## lilpauly

test results for ru

I am happy to inform you the results look excellent.  The compound is very pure and all the hydrogen absorptions are present at the right chemical shifts and match the correct number of hydrogens for the RU structure.



http://pdfcast.org/pdf/kane-test-100-pure

----------


## Jazz1

> Why on earth would you buy the powder when kane now sells premixed i am using the 5% ru pre mixed in kb solution and suffer no problems.
> Its well mixed with no lumps and quite frankly fantastic thankyou anagen if your out there for producing ru at a good price and quick delivery to uk.
> I do hope that anagen does a premix cb as well as i would buy it.


 I'm buying from Anagen next month, you use PayPal?

----------


## doke

> I'm buying from Anagen next month, you use PayPal?


 hi jazz yes i use paypal good luck, remember to rub the ru into the scalp.

----------


## Alias123

Hey doke, thanks for alot of good info on the site, i also live in the uk, im thinking about ordering RU aswell, i work 12 hours a day so i have no time to mix myself, so my question is:
The premixed batch you buy, is it just like buying rogaine, in other words, is it that simple that you can just apply it to your scalp? ( hairline in my case) and where is the link for the premixed RU? thanks alot

----------


## Jazz1

> hi jazz yes i use paypal good luck, remember to rub the ru into the scalp.


 Kb solution good? What solution do you use?

----------


## Potm22

I am 22 years old, started losing hair like 1,5 years ago and using RU since 3 weeks now, stacked with 0.3mg of finasteride per day. 
Im not sure about the results so far, during the day i dont really lose many hair, maybe like 30-40, but i found  quite alot of hair in the sink of where i always wash my hair before applying ru, so im really not sure.

Anyways, im gonna keep going and maybe try some premixed solution to exclude the risk of me doing sth wrong when mixing and keep ppl posted. Also i want to say a big thanks to everyone that contributes to this thread and posts updates of their results, it really helps me by giving me hope. If this turns out really working, so that i can finally stop taking finasteride that would make my life so much better, at the moment my hairloss gets me deeply depressed.

I have one question though, I only lose hair at my temples and a little bit on the back of my head, should i still apply like shown in the first post by Hellouser? Like also apply on the midscalp or is it okay if i just apply on my temples and vortex? So far i only applied on the places im losing hair, nowhere else, in case thats a mistake please tell me

----------


## cichlidfort

> I am 22 years old, started losing hair like 1,5 years ago and using RU since 3 weeks now, stacked with 0.3mg of finasteride per day. 
> Im not sure about the results so far, during the day i dont really lose many hair, maybe like 30-40, but i found  quite alot of hair in the sink of where i always wash my hair before applying ru, so im really not sure.
> 
> Anyways, im gonna keep going and maybe try some premixed solution to exclude the risk of me doing sth wrong when mixing and keep ppl posted. Also i want to say a big thanks to everyone that contributes to this thread and posts updates of their results, it really helps me by giving me hope. If this turns out really working, so that i can finally stop taking finasteride that would make my life so much better, at the moment my hairloss gets me deeply depressed.
> 
> I have one question though, I only lose hair at my temples and a little bit on the back of my head, should i still apply like shown in the first post by Hellouser? Like also apply on the midscalp or is it okay if i just apply on my temples and vortex? So far i only applied on the places im losing hair, nowhere else, in case thats a mistake please tell me


 Where on the back of your head? Be very specific. You might have retrograde alopecia. It'll be a matter of time until the hair on top starts to take it's MPB course as well.

----------


## Potm22

> Where on the back of your head? Be very specific. You might have retrograde alopecia. It'll be a matter of time until the hair on top starts to take it's MPB course as well.


  Like there is this little bald spot that every human has on the back of the head, where most of ppls hair grow in a swirl around. I think my hair start thinning around that area. I am definatly not losing any hair on the sides and lower back of my head. Losing by far most of my hair on the temples, the rest still seems okay. But the loss on the temples is killing me, bcos i used to love styling my hair so much, making different hairstyles etc(no homo lol), i love my hair so much, dont wanna lose them :-(.
 My friend told me i can go to a doctor and get a haircount done in an area and recheck like a few months later to see the difference, gonna get that done within next few days to be able to keep track and post updates of results combined with my ru treatment every 8-10 weeks.

----------


## cichlidfort

> Like there is this little bald spot that every human has on the back of the head, where most of ppls hair grow in a swirl around. I think my hair start thinning around that area. I am definatly not losing any hair on the sides and lower back of my head. Losing by far most of my hair on the temples, the rest still seems okay. But the loss on the temples is killing me, bcos i used to love styling my hair so much, making different hairstyles etc(no homo lol), i love my hair so much, dont wanna lose them :-(.
>  My friend told me i can go to a doctor and get a haircount done in an area and recheck like a few months later to see the difference, gonna get that done within next few days to be able to keep track and post updates of results combined with my ru treatment every 8-10 weeks.


 The hair swirl you're referring to is known as the crown. Good idea with the hair count but at the same time try not to do much hair counting. It will raise your anxiety.

----------


## Cob984

staythick are you still doing well on eth/pg

----------


## StayThick

> staythick are you still doing well on eth/pg


 Cob, yes. I have now gone from EOD to every day to monitor sides. I have had none which is shocking. I'm still getting my normal morning wood and my nipples aren't flaring out.

They get "slightly puffy" hours after application, but it's not severe and it looks normal hours later after that. I think my problem with RU last time around was I was mixing my own batches with KB. So either the KB solution was the culprit or maybe RU was more potent being "fresh" and not premixed. Not sure though.

But I did notice my hair felt dry and was not falling out at all when I made my own batches. With the premixed I went through a shed, but also it doesn't immediately dry my scalp or prevent hair from falling. Still strands will fall.

Results wise? Still need more time. Right now monitoring sides is key. How you doing Cob?

----------


## Cob984

Bad, iv given up, sides on everything

----------


## simco84

Hi guys, I recently purchased some RU after reading about it on this forum and a few other sites. I was ready to start using it until I started reading about guys having serious shedding, lasting months, and shedding "phases" where the shedding comes and goes. I am well aware of the typical shedding that occurs with minoxidil use, but this sounded extreme. There is no way I could mentally and emotionally handle significant thinning of my hair at this point in my life. I am very hesitant to use it now, although it sounds like it could definitely help. I would like to hear other users accounts of their shedding experience, or if they experienced any at all.

----------


## LMS

Could I get away with storing multi month (6+) amounts of RU in a minifridge freezer - its pretty shitty but enough to freeze water solid.  Probably between -2 to -8 c id guess.

Or should I be making sure I'm dropping this in like -18 c deep freeze?  Just wondering cuz with like the stability test proving pretty positive im just not sure.

----------


## hellouser

> Could I get away with storing multi month (6+) amounts of RU in a minifridge freezer - its pretty shitty but enough to freeze water solid.  Probably between -2 to -8 c id guess.
> 
> Or should I be making sure I'm dropping this in like -18 c deep freeze?  Just wondering cuz with like the stability test proving pretty positive im just not sure.


 Condensation will screw up the efficacy/longevity of RU when mixed with water.

In short: Don't do it.

----------


## LMS

Oohh also, ordered RU right before easter - lots of delays, and its coming from FLorida and now in LA (hot as **** probably).  How f'd am I?  Is my RU still gonna be alright even though its been like over a week so far.

----------


## LMS

> Condensation will screw up the efficacy/longevity of RU when mixed with water.
> 
> In short: Don't do it.


 Haha thats not what I meant sorry if I worded it weird I was high as the time. 

Basically asking is -2 to like -8 (my estimation of my mini fridge freezer temp) enough to store RU for 6+ months.  Or should I be storing it in a legit deep freezer thats like -18 c ?

----------


## hellouser

> Haha thats not what I meant sorry if I worded it weird I was high as the time. 
> 
> Basically asking is -2 to like -8 (my estimation of my mini fridge freezer temp) enough to store RU for 6+ months.  Or should I be storing it in a legit deep freezer thats like -18 c ?


 Raw powder should last for 6+ months if held in the freezer. I thought you meant (read it wrong) you wanted to mix in the vehicle and store that.

----------


## LMS

> Raw powder should last for 6+ months if held in the freezer. I thought you meant (read it wrong) you wanted to mix in the vehicle and store that.


 Awesome thanks

----------


## doke

> Kb solution good? What solution do you use?


 sorry for being late with reply just been busy lately and not being on here much, yes i use the kb solution as i think that preserves it longer and as to applying i apply 1.5mls a day all over top of scalp massaging in until its dry. :Cool:

----------


## doke

> Hey doke, thanks for alot of good info on the site, i also live in the uk, im thinking about ordering RU aswell, i work 12 hours a day so i have no time to mix myself, so my question is:
> The premixed batch you buy, is it just like buying rogaine, in other words, is it that simple that you can just apply it to your scalp? ( hairline in my case) and where is the link for the premixed RU? thanks alot


 hi Alias i apply mine at night sometimes in the morning and if using rogaine apply about 15 mins later, i have stopped regaine as i am using neogenic and ru and hair loss has stopped but bald areas only fine vellous hair at this time.
Yes premixed i use a 1ml syringe to apply 1.5mls a day and massage in till its dry so simples haha.

----------


## Potm22

> I have one question though, I only lose hair at my temples and a little bit on the back of my head, should i still apply like shown in the first post by Hellouser? Like also apply on the midscalp or is it okay if i just apply on my temples and vortex where im losing hair? So far i only applied on the places im losing hair, nowhere else, in case thats a mistake please tell me


 Can someone help me out with this question pls, wanna make sure im doing it right  :Embarrassment:

----------


## hellouser

> I am 22 years old, started losing hair like 1,5 years ago and using RU since 3 weeks now, stacked with 0.3mg of finasteride per day. 
> Im not sure about the results so far, during the day i dont really lose many hair, maybe like 30-40, but i found  quite alot of hair in the sink of where i always wash my hair before applying ru, so im really not sure.
> 
> Anyways, im gonna keep going and maybe try some premixed solution to exclude the risk of me doing sth wrong when mixing and keep ppl posted. Also i want to say a big thanks to everyone that contributes to this thread and posts updates of their results, it really helps me by giving me hope. If this turns out really working, so that i can finally stop taking finasteride that would make my life so much better, at the moment my hairloss gets me deeply depressed.
> 
> I have one question though, I only lose hair at my temples and a little bit on the back of my head, should i still apply like shown in the first post by Hellouser? Like also apply on the midscalp or is it okay if i just apply on my temples and vortex? So far i only applied on the places im losing hair, nowhere else, in case thats a mistake please tell me


 Anywhere you dont apply MPB will affect it and you'll those areas slowly disappear until youre a bald social reject.

Apply it everywhere to prevent baldness, not when its too late.

----------


## Plan C

What exactly are the advantages of using pg over kb as the vehicle? All I can find is that pg might irritate your scalp.

----------


## lilpauly

> What exactly are the advantages of using pg over kb as the vehicle? All I can find is that pg might irritate your scalp.


 It helps reduce with sides that's all, it creates a film.

----------


## lilpauly

^kb helps reduce sides .

----------


## Plan C

> ^kb helps reduce sides .


 So why use pg..

----------


## goldnt

> So why use pg..


 Because pg is much cheaper and its fine if you dont get sides. I use 150mg/3ml and i get no sides at all.

----------


## Plan C

Does anybody know if 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Isopropyl-...item1e8b0b0778

Is a suitable replacement for everclear? You can't get everclear in the UK.

----------


## goldnt

> Does anybody know if 
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Isopropyl-...item1e8b0b0778
> 
> Is a suitable replacement for everclear? You can't get everclear in the UK.


 Don't think it would work man. Well it could but it would dry your scalp terribly. There's bound to be a website like WineChateau for the UK though.

----------


## Plan C

> Don't think it would work man. Well it could but it would dry your scalp terribly. There's bound to be a website like WineChateau for the UK though.


 http://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-15105.aspx

Is this better? Or would I be better off buying some kb?

----------


## LMS

OK so last night was my first RU application 50mg in 1ml (70/30 eth/pg).

Couple questions for the veterans.

When the **** do I apply?  Last night I showered - applied stayed up for a few hours and then went to bed.  Now I woke up and showered again cause I need to shower in the morning, or else I feel unwoken and/or greasy (its a psychological thing).  

Now my question is - I heard that RU binds to the receptor for about 20 hrs - but when I shower do I have to reapply as in the receptor is no longer binded by ru?  Im about to reapply another 50mg/ml just incase. 

Basically I'm trying to figure out when/how to apply RU for maximam efficacy and so I dont have to constantly be reapplying.

I'm actually about to go to work too, and I'm going to be wearing a hat. Can this further **** shit up?

**** bros, I just want to get this right cause my only other option is a hairpiece since I'm 18 and **** being bald so early.

Also no noticeable sides so far - woke up with about a 50% stiffy.   Sometimes its 100% stiffy, sometimes a mere 0%.  SO unless today was meant to be a 100% stiffy morning I'd say no sides as of yet.

Also experimenting with application methods. 1ml  is very difficult to cover even though my hair is like a quarter inch long.  thinking of doing 25mg/ml and 2mls. or just 100mg in 2 mls. we'll see.

----------


## lilpauly

> OK so last night was my first RU application 50mg in 1ml (70/30 eth/pg).
> 
> Couple questions for the veterans.
> 
> When the **** do I apply?  Last night I showered - applied stayed up for a few hours and then went to bed.  Now I woke up and showered again cause I need to shower in the morning, or else I feel unwoken and/or greasy (its a psychological thing).  
> 
> Now my question is - I heard that RU binds to the receptor for about 20 hrs - but when I shower do I have to reapply as in the receptor is no longer binded by ru?  Im about to reapply another 50mg/ml just incase. 
> 
> Basically I'm trying to figure out when/how to apply RU for maximam efficacy and so I dont have to constantly be reapplying.
> ...


 Apply Minox in the morning and apply ru at night time . I always apy ru last , it's just my preference !!!!

----------


## LMS

> Apply Minox in the morning and apply ru at night time . I always apy ru last , it's just my preference !!!!


 Ru is my only treatment.  No minox, fin etc.  So if I apply at night and then shower in the morning is that alright? Or will I not receive the full benefit and should I then apply twice a day - once before bed and once in the morning after my shower?

----------


## brocktherock

Hey Hellouser,
  You had incredible results with ru last year but how did your results hold up after? Did they stay? Did you keep going through rough shedding and steady regrowth?

----------


## lilpauly

> Ru is my only treatment.  No minox, fin etc.  So if I apply at night and then shower in the morning is that alright? Or will I not receive the full benefit and should I then apply twice a day - once before bed and once in the morning after my shower?


 apply once. u should add minox as well, ru stops the balding process where as growth stims give the most regrowth, at your age u could probaly restore your hairline because of your young age,

----------


## robodoc

> Don't think it would work man. Well it could but it would dry your scalp terribly. There's bound to be a website like WineChateau for the UK though.


 Isoproply 70% or 91% works fine.  Just let it dissolve over 5-10 minutes, stir if you wish and refrigerate after initially dissolving it.  ie, dissolve 100gram in 10ml of Isopropyl Alc and then add minoxidil ready made soln up to 20ml for a 50mg/ml concentration.


No initial shedding of any kind with RU.  Use Nizoral 2% shampoo 1-2 a week and Minox 5% daily before  nightly application of RU.  I have had stunning results.  Good luck.

----------


## LMS

I just looked at my RU solution and there still seems to be undissolved pieces of RU if I look closely enough. I dissolved it first in ethanol then agitated it with my syringe and then finally added the PG. Is this normal or should I be worried? 

RU from anagen - as is the ethanol + PG.

Only noticeable if you look close - but its there.

----------


## DifferentLine

^ Have you shaken the solution up properly after mixing? I found that after I'd mixed it and waited a couple of hours there were still tiny lumps of RU, so I shook up the solution and left it to rest for a while and the lumps had dissolved.

----------


## lilpauly

If u are tiny ru specs just shake it and wait , 99&#37; will disdolve right away and the other 1% will dissolve when shaking , undisdolves ru will have a milky color in ethanol

----------


## lilpauly

I would also apply rogaine foam in the morning , u will get more regrowth with combo

----------


## Plan C

Can someone clarify if this

http://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-15105.aspx

Is suitable for mixing with RU please.

----------


## doke

> Can someone clarify if this
> 
> http://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-15105.aspx
> 
> Is suitable for mixing with RU please.


 Hi i used Balkan 176 which was 88% or 176 us proof from same uk company above so i think that is also good to use unless you buy  some kb solution which is ready made to mix your ru.











5

----------


## Plan C

Does anybody know if KB solution benefits from being stored in the fridge/ freezer like RU does?

----------


## hellouser

> Does anybody know if KB solution benefits from being stored in the fridge/ freezer like RU does?


 Condensation will most likely have a negative effect. Store it closed tightly in room temperature or cooler.

----------


## lilpauly

It doesn't matter. Ru is stable at room temp for for at least 6 months kb is stable  longer . I store ru in refring sometimes or room temp. I avoid the the freezer because ice crystals can form if its not tightly sealed , this will take the ru longer to dissolve

----------


## Plan C

Cheers for the pointers. One more thing - RU in KB solution before minox or minox before RU in KB?

----------


## Phatalis

So...

I've read in this thread a lot before but I'm still confused..

Does RU actually work? Did Hellouser actually figure it out...

And if so... and it gives minimal sides compared to Fin but works just as well as fin (im guessing)

why the **** arent we all using it???

----------


## Phatalis

I'm asking because i'm considering trying it out. i dont want to f with fin. my hairs thinning a bit.

I gotta say hellouser is the man regardless. him arashi and some others are ****ing amazing dudes. desmond. etc.

but anyhow.

does this shit work?? and if so why arent we raving about it? cause something that mimics fin with minimal sides is.. pretty ****in amazing. im waiting on CB but maaan i dunno if I have that long.

----------


## LMS

> I'm asking because i'm considering trying it out. i dont want to f with fin. my hairs thinning a bit.
> 
> I gotta say hellouser is the man regardless. him arashi and some others are ****ing amazing dudes. desmond. etc.
> 
> but anyhow.
> 
> does this shit work?? and if so why arent we raving about it? cause something that mimics fin with minimal sides is.. pretty ****in amazing. im waiting on CB but maaan i dunno if I have that long.


 i was on dut - and got sides (a side which was almost guaranteed to be present on fin aswell - non sexual).  so i got on ru - about to do my 6 th application/day.

no sides except itch from pg - switched to kb tonight. to early to tell results.

----------


## Plan C

I applied RU in KB solution for the first time today. I used 50mg in 1ml of KB on my hairline only. This was what I was advised to use - however, I didn't manage to cover my hairline properly. Should I use slightly more ml or try and spread it more evenly?

----------


## Amercancer

Hello, been using RU with minox. Did anybody get results and if not let me know whats best please, and how much each night is best.

----------


## efedrez

Does anybody know the best place/vendor to get KB solution? I have been trying to buy it online but don´t see it at Kane or anywhere else

Thanks

----------


## lilpauly

> Does anybody know the best place/vendor to get KB solution? I have been trying to buy it online but don´t see it at Kane or anywhere else
> 
> Thanks


 They have it in stock but not 50 ml bottles , have them ship 100ml I think the price was 38 .

----------


## efedrez

> They have it in stock but not 50 ml bottles , have them ship 100ml I think the price was 38 .


 Thanks Lilpualy, I have been going through their web site but can't find it anywhere, are you sure the still have them in stock? do you know the link to the item in their store?

----------


## Plan C

Do you lot shower before using RU? I apply it after having applied Rogaine foam twice, which probably means it doesn't penetrate as well as it could.

----------


## Mister Vod

Holy Detail Batman!!!  Awesome!

Did this stuff give you any side effects associated with Finasteride?  I am super sensitive to it and avoid it.  But it does block DHT - but only from the scalp?

Anyone have any suggestions on this?

Thanks,

Mr. V

----------


## artika

Is it safe to use RU under 18? I am 17

Also does it help retrograde alopecia (I have thinning on the sides, and the only relative who lost his hair, a greatgrandfather, lost his sides too and only maintained the back and nape, but that remained thick)?  I have no temple recession ( maybe a bit on one side). 
I have seen a derm and he said there is early miniaturization and no vellus hairs yet, but it's present everywhere, save for the back and the nape.
I will also use kirkland minox.

----------


## LMS

> Holy Detail Batman!!!  Awesome!
> 
> Did this stuff give you any side effects associated with Finasteride?  I am super sensitive to it and avoid it.  But it does block DHT - but only from the scalp?
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions on this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mr. V


 
I used dutasteride and got sides.  I used RU for 8 days and got sides aswell, much more mild than dut tho, and they disappeared within a few days.  Going to be restarting RU on a lower dose + experiment with vehicles. Hopefully RU will be my saving grace till a find a better side effect free topical.

----------


## Plan C

It's been suggested that RU works best when used soon after you take a shower. It's also been suggested that RU in kb solution creates a film that reduces the effectiveness of other topicals like minox. Therefore - taking a shower, using RU and then using minox would make minox fairly ineffective. However - taking a shower, using minox and later applying RU means that RU doesn't benefit from increased effectiveness available from taking a shower . . . Which is the correct order? 
(Sorry if this doesn't make a great deal of sense but I'm very hungover)

----------


## Swooping

> It's been suggested that RU works best when used soon after you take a shower. It's also been suggested that RU in kb solution creates a film that reduces the effectiveness of other topicals like minox. Therefore - taking a shower, using RU and then using minox would make minox fairly ineffective. However - taking a shower, using minox and later applying RU means that RU doesn't benefit from increased effectiveness available from taking a shower . . . Which is the correct order? 
> (Sorry if this doesn't make a great deal of sense but I'm very hungover)


 Just mix it into your minoxidil and apply on a dry clean scalp.

----------


## Plan C

> Just mix it into your minoxidil and apply on a dry clean scalp.


 I use foam.

----------


## robodoc

> Just mix it into your minoxidil and apply on a dry clean scalp.


 
I apply the minoxidil 5% first then the RU.  I personally do not think it matters what order they are applied since they should be applied within a minute of each other.  Definitely a clean scalp will be optimal for absorption but hydro-alcholic solns are generally very well absorbed and that is what you have with the RU soln and Minoxidil. I think the appropriate dose of RU is most important.

Most apply RU daily but I am not sure if that is necessary, ie, every other day.
Do the studies show daily use is needed to get results?

----------


## Mister Vod

Hi LMS,

What were the side effects?  And did it work for you?  Did it help your hair?

Should I use it on a dry scalp?  Or wet scalp?

Thanks so much for sharing!  Tough to trust vendors...

Mister Vod





> I used dutasteride and got sides.  I used RU for 8 days and got sides aswell, much more mild than dut tho, and they disappeared within a few days.  Going to be restarting RU on a lower dose + experiment with vehicles. Hopefully RU will be my saving grace till a find a better side effect free topical.

----------


## Swooping

> I apply the minoxidil 5% first then the RU.  I personally do not think it matters what order they are applied since they should be applied within a minute of each other.  Definitely a clean scalp will be optimal for absorption but hydro-alcholic solns are generally very well absorbed and that is what you have with the RU soln and Minoxidil. I think the appropriate dose of RU is most important.
> 
> Most apply RU daily but I am not sure if that is necessary, ie, every other day.
> Do the studies show daily use is needed to get results?


 Exactly, does not matter indeed. The original macaque study was done doing 5 applications (weekends off) I never tried every other day, although I skip 1 day sometimes 2 days in the week and that is not a problem at all.

----------


## Dan26

> Exactly, does not matter indeed. The original macaque study was done doing 5 applications (weekends off) I never tried every other day, although I skip 1 day sometimes 2 days in the week and that is not a problem at all.


 I've seen ''ru active at the AR for ~20hr'' thrown around before...you know if that is true bro?

----------


## lucrio

So I'm going to chime in here with my RU experience and also a question based on what I'm experiencing. I've been using RU for about 4 months now with good success. This thread helped out a lot learning everything I needed to know to get started so a thank you to Hellouser. I started at 1&#37; concentration and increased to 5% concentration with little to no side effects. My results have been really good; shedding/loss is now minimal, almost none, thickening all around, and even some hairline regrowth. Basically RU has been doing for me what my best case fin expectations would be. A few weeks ago I decided to up the concentration even more and am now at about 6.7%. Recently I have had some trouble getting and maintaining erections and less libido. I don't know if I just noticed this and it has been going on a while or if it just started.

However, I have also been using marijuana nearly daily in the past two months. The weekend when I really started noticing the side effects was when I smoked pretty heavily. Now I am left wondering if my side effects are due to heavy marijuana usage, or increased RU concentration. I have stopped using marijuana for around a week now but the sides have yet to improve. 

Does anyone here who has been trying RU also use marijuana? And do you think it would increase my chances of side effects? Its driving me nuts not knowing which one is to blame.(P.S I'm aware marijuana use is illegal in many places and am not encouraging it or condoning it, if the content of this post violates forum rules then I do not mind it being removed by the moderator)

----------


## Swooping

> I've seen ''ru active at the AR for ~20hr'' thrown around before...you know if that is true bro?


 Nope, never came across the actual binding time.. But yeah some people throw that around i don't know if that is true.

----------


## goldnt

> I've seen ''ru active at the AR for ~20hr'' thrown around before...you know if that is true bro?


 Id say it could be accurate, if i miss a day of ru i begin to have like this heat thumping sensation on my scalp throughout the day and it gets really itchy. Has happened for months when i had no treatments. When i used ru it completely stopped till of course i miss a day. 

Quick question, ive been buying from kane for months but decided to buy from anagen. Is their quality still good? Id rather anagen because it cheaper,shipped inside US (so no customs hold up which happened to me), faster shipping(2day) and could pay with paypal.

----------


## lilpauly

> Id say it could be accurate, if i miss a day of ru i begin to have like this heat thumping sensation on my scalp throughout the day and it gets really itchy. Has happened for months when i had no treatments. When i used ru it completely stopped till of course i miss a day. 
> 
> Quick question, ive been buying from kane for months but decided to buy from anagen. Is their quality still good? Id rather anagen because it cheaper,shipped inside US (so no customs hold up which happened to me), faster shipping(2day) and could pay with paypal.


 It's the same , I think Kane sends every1 to anageninc to Order. Customs were destroying to many packages, it's the same price on Kane shop

----------


## lilpauly

> So I'm going to chime in here with my RU experience and also a question based on what I'm experiencing. I've been using RU for about 4 months now with good success. This thread helped out a lot learning everything I needed to know to get started so a thank you to Hellouser. I started at 1% concentration and increased to 5% concentration with little to no side effects. My results have been really good; shedding/loss is now minimal, almost none, thickening all around, and even some hairline regrowth. Basically RU has been doing for me what my best case fin expectations would be. A few weeks ago I decided to up the concentration even more and am now at about 6.7%. Recently I have had some trouble getting and maintaining erections and less libido. I don't know if I just noticed this and it has been going on a while or if it just started.
> 
> However, I have also been using marijuana nearly daily in the past two months. The weekend when I really started noticing the side effects was when I smoked pretty heavily. Now I am left wondering if my side effects are due to heavy marijuana usage, or increased RU concentration. I have stopped using marijuana for around a week now but the sides have yet to improve. 
> 
> Does anyone here who has been trying RU also use marijuana? And do you think it would increase my chances of side effects? Its driving me nuts not knowing which one is to blame.(P.S I'm aware marijuana use is illegal in many places and am not encouraging it or condoning it, if the content of this post violates forum rules then I do not mind it being removed by the moderator)


 U are suffering from anti androgen sides , do u smoke cigs? Have u changed your diet?

----------


## Simonr89

Is it normal or ok to go through a shedding phase after starting RU? I've been on it for about 1 month and a half and i have seen an increase in shedding throughout. 

I'm also seeing few tiny hairs appearing ahead of my temples which is keeping me going.

This is my first anti androgen experience aside from about 2 weeks of propecia which has made me shed too. Should i stick through this?

----------


## lilpauly

> Is it normal or ok to go through a shedding phase after starting RU? I've been on it for about 1 month and a half and i have seen an increase in shedding throughout. 
> 
> I'm also seeing few tiny hairs appearing ahead of my temples which is keeping me going.
> 
> This is my first anti androgen experience aside from about 2 weeks of propecia which has made me shed too. Should i stick through this?


 Every1 goes through shedding sometimes starting a treatment can cause increase in shedding , see if u can see any smaller hairs sprouting throughout the scalp , are u on Minox? Summertime u should shed more hairs , at least for me

----------


## lilpauly

> So I'm going to chime in here with my RU experience and also a question based on what I'm experiencing. I've been using RU for about 4 months now with good success. This thread helped out a lot learning everything I needed to know to get started so a thank you to Hellouser. I started at 1% concentration and increased to 5% concentration with little to no side effects. My results have been really good; shedding/loss is now minimal, almost none, thickening all around, and even some hairline regrowth. Basically RU has been doing for me what my best case fin expectations would be. A few weeks ago I decided to up the concentration even more and am now at about 6.7%. Recently I have had some trouble getting and maintaining erections and less libido. I don't know if I just noticed this and it has been going on a while or if it just started.
> 
> However, I have also been using marijuana nearly daily in the past two months. The weekend when I really started noticing the side effects was when I smoked pretty heavily. Now I am left wondering if my side effects are due to heavy marijuana usage, or increased RU concentration. I have stopped using marijuana for around a week now but the sides have yet to improve. 
> 
> Does anyone here who has been trying RU also use marijuana? And do you think it would increase my chances of side effects? Its driving me nuts not knowing which one is to blame.(P.S I'm aware marijuana use is illegal in many places and am not encouraging it or condoning it, if the content of this post violates forum rules then I do not mind it being removed by the moderator)


 also i would not go over 5% some1 on goodlooking loser is having the same issues when he went over 5%, if sides continue try topical fin

----------


## Simonr89

> Every1 goes through shedding sometimes starting a treatment can cause increase in shedding , see if u can see any smaller hairs sprouting throughout the scalp , are u on Minox? Summertime u should shed more hairs , at least for me


 I've been on minox for 8 months but i have dropped it in january because i don't think i was responding well and it didn't make much sense using it alone. 

Im thinking about getting back on it but i wanna judge RU first by itself and also getting back on minox will probably make me shed even more.

----------


## hellouser

> I've been on minox for 8 months but i have dropped it in january because i don't think i was responding well and it didn't make much sense using it alone. 
> 
> Im thinking about getting back on it but i wanna judge RU first by itself and also getting back on minox will probably make me shed even more.


 The two together will work a LOT better. I highly recommend it.

----------


## Simonr89

> The two together will work a LOT better. I highly recommend it.


 Thanks. Are we talking long term or just like one year?

----------


## hellouser

> Thanks. Are we talking long term or just like one year?


 Forever... or until CB comes out. Or an actual cure is available.

Discontinuing will restart DHTs effects of miniaturizing your follicles.

----------


## lucrio

> also i would not go over 5&#37; some1 on goodlooking loser is having the same issues when he went over 5%, if sides continue try topical fin


 Never smoke cigs, and my diet has actually been a lot healthier lately. Less fat and sugar. I just wonder if anyone thinks marijuana use affects hormones at all. I'lll definitely go back to 5% and see if that helps. Also, can sides develop after a period of a few months when none were there to start? Results have been really good so far in terms of hair. 

Adding to the shedding question from Simonr89, I didn't get any shedding really when I started RU, maybe very minor, but I also got small hair ahead of the hairline which are thickening so it's probably working for you, just stick to it.

----------


## LeonardoD

I bought RU but canceled the order... I'm fearing that we'll lose our supplier and by then you would've been addicted to RU, so your hair will be ruined  :Frown: .

I'm only losing hair at the hairline, so RU is like a must  :Frown:

----------


## lilpauly

Saba gel is a great treatment for the hairline

----------


## lilpauly

Leonard apply Minox then Saba then watch your hairline fill in !

----------


## Paul73

> The two together will work a LOT better. I highly recommend it.


 How can you highly recommend a substance that has not been tested on humans? How can you be sure that in the long run it will not cause cancer? And who says that the company has not abandoned the project precisely because of this risk?

The truth is that many people are using RU without thinking about the serious consequences. People have used it recently and did not realize that in a few years unpleasant things may start to emerge.

I hope they rethink whether it's worth it to risk in this way.

----------


## Duke

I would really like to start with RU right away but I also have problems using a chemical that was not tested on humans at all!

Especially that it increases cellular replication rate worries me a bit since this is what I would imagine causes cancer (&#250;ncontrolled cellular growht)

Iam not an expert at all and I would be more than glad if some expert could clarifie this...

----------


## Swooping

> How can you highly recommend a substance that has not been tested on humans? How can you be sure that in the long run it will not cause cancer? And who says that the company has not abandoned the project precisely because of this risk?
> 
> The truth is that many people are using RU without thinking about the serious consequences. People have used it recently and did not realize that in a few years unpleasant things may start to emerge.
> 
> I hope they rethink whether it's worth it to risk in this way.


 Cancer most funny thing i have heard.. Anti androgens are used for anti-cancer generally, makes much sense! 

Start here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discove..._antiandrogens

If you can't research general information and draw logical conclusions from it and put effort into it, don't even start on any experimental is my advice really. 
You don't even know that it was tested in humans even till phase 2.

----------


## Duke

I did a lot of research on RU and CB so far...but I havent read anything about HUMAN trails on RU?!

Please provide a link or a source!!

----------


## Paul73

> Cancer most funny thing i have heard.. Anti androgens are used for anti-cancer generally, makes much sense! 
> 
> Start here;
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discove..._antiandrogens
> 
> If you can't research general information and draw logical conclusions from it and put effort into it, don't even start on any experimental is my advice really. 
> You don't even know that it was tested in humans even till phase 2.


 
I confess that I expected a more polite and convincing answer. Instead, you chose to be ironic. And you know why? Because nobody knows the answer to the risk of cancer involving UK.

The answer will always be without foundation and logic. Precisely because there is insufficient data to eliminate what you think is very funny.

I'm not the first to mention the possibility of cancer with the use of RU. If you are as well informed as suggest, you should know that there are tons of articles and threads talking about cancer risk on RU. So i am not the first to make this claim. If you really have not read about this before, i suspect that you are the one who needs to do a better research.

I researched a lot in different sources. Read all threads at this and other websites regarding RU. I even talked to doctors personally. And they agree that cancer is a possibility in the long run since we do not have complete human tests done.

As pointed out by Duke in his post

_I would really like to start with RU right away but I also have problems using a chemical that was not tested on humans at all!

Especially that it increases cellular replication rate worries me a bit since this is what I would imagine causes cancer (uncontrolled cellular growth)
_

Desmond commented about it in a recent post too:

_It is important to know the difference between CB & RU . Although They are both anti - androgens , RU is an active ingredient with 20-30 % systemic absorption after topical application .

CB on the other , is only active When applied to the skin . By the Time It Reaches into the lower skin layers and enters the bloodstream , specific enzymes have broken it down to que inactive chemicals are rapidly excreted from the body .

That is why so many ppl still report adverse sexual effects after using RU . So in my opinion either take micro - doses of Finasteride orally ( 0.25mg/twice per week ) or crush it up and dissolve it in the vehicle and apply it topically . At least you know the safety record of finasteride and possible long term effects . The member said earlier with the RU you are playing russian roulette or the RU Roulette LOL ._


Still think it's funny? I find disturbing and i was just trying to alert you and other guys about it. I was planning to use RU and after many weeks researching i still didn't find the answer to this question:

Could RU cause cancer in the long run?

Since we don't have the answer (and will never know because the project was abandoned), the YES to this question is also a possibility. 

I hope I'm not being rude in my answer. I admire your posts and all the excellent information you bring to this forum. But again, I expected a better response from you.

----------


## Swooping

First of all you do know how cancer works a bit don't you? If not first watch this video, it is explained easy; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qja4z1HGDQo&feature=kp 

Btw, sorry I did not mean to offend you. There are many people who use bro- science on the forums. Let's take these 2;

"I would really like to start with RU right away but I also have problems using a chemical that was not tested on humans at all!

Especially that it increases cellular replication rate worries me a bit since this is what I would imagine causes cancer (uncontrolled cellular growth)"

First of all it was tested in humans. Secondly you do know it is completely damn obvious that the cellular replication rate is going to increase (profileration of the cells) when we block the AR. We who have AGA actually lack the profileration rate in our cells (miniaturized hair) against non-aga control. Here just a movie posted about it of the hair congress, you'll understand;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEbLm_cgJKI

Although you will find tons more if you search for it. Even finasteride will increase your profileration rate because androgens (DHT) will have less chance to increase paracrine signalling alteration etc through the AR. Same with minoxidil, although through other mechanisms. For instance minoxidil, actually DECREASES P53. We know that androgens induce ROS damage through the AR and P53 gets activated and is overexpressed bald scalp. Go look up on P53 i bet you'll be insanely scared to use minoxidil now lol. We actually want to have more profileration rate in our cells, if you don't want that you better stay bald. I can link you to studies about it if you want. 

If you don't want cancer I suppose you better stop drinking, don't go outside without completely covered in UV protection, don't ever smoke, dont use fin, minox etc. But even then you ain't safe because most of it is genetically predisposed anyway. I always amaze myself, some people who live completely healthy and die at a young age of cancer and some people who smoke like a chain monster, drink every day and do drugs still do not develop cancer when they are 80+ years old. Don't you? 

Again RU action is of a anti-androgen go look up on other anti-androgens. They are used AGAINST cancer. That would be ironic if molecules for anti-androgens would induce cancer, wouldn't it?

About Desmond this 20-30&#37; systemical approach of RU, i have never read this. Show me the proof for this. I have read every study of RU pretty thoroughly and never have read this 20-30% systematical thing. But prove me wrong if this is true, ill def lower my RU dosage lol. Sorry for spelling mistakes btw wrote this pretty fast.

----------


## g0910

Have any of you long time RU users experienced any other symptoms such as muscle loss or androgen/body hair thinning (beard, armpits, chest/stomach, pubic, arms & legs)? I really would like to know how systemic this topical is.

I know that long-term Propecia use causes body hair loss because I'm a prime example. I've been on Propecia for over 10 years and lost almost all of my body hair where I used to be as hairy as a bear before hand... chest hair - stomach hair... all gone. My head hair has held up fairly well though. 

Also, I have had a hard time gaining muscle where before starting propecia, I was able to gain muscle mass so easily. Some of the reason may be age, but I think it's mostly due to the lack of DHT. (My Total T and Free T are good ) 

For these reasons, in the last couple of years I've been starting to wean my Propecia dose(1mg) from every day to 3x/week to 2x/week and now to 3/4 mg 2x/week. Does anyone think that using RU, will pickup the slack at all? I'm 50 and I'm at a NW3V/4.

I've never tried Minox or any other special shampoos or topicals. Would like to try RU only if it's not too systemic. Any advice is welcome. Thanks.

----------


## lilpauly

> Have any of you long time RU users experienced any other symptoms such as muscle loss or androgen/body hair thinning (beard, armpits, chest/stomach, pubic, arms & legs)? I really would like to know how systemic this topical is.
> 
> I know that long-term Propecia use causes body hair loss because I'm a prime example. I've been on Propecia for over 10 years and lost almost all of my body hair where I used to be as hairy as a bear before hand... chest hair - stomach hair... all gone. My head hair has held up fairly well though. 
> 
> Also, I have had a hard time gaining muscle where before starting propecia, I was able to gain muscle mass so easily. Some of the reason may be age, but I think it's mostly due to the lack of DHT. (My Total T and Free T are good ) 
> 
> For these reasons, in the last couple of years I've been starting to wean my Propecia dose(1mg) from every day to 3x/week to 2x/week and now to 3/4 mg 2x/week. Does anyone think that using RU, will pickup the slack at all? I'm 50 and I'm at a NW3V/4.
> 
> I've never tried Minox or any other special shampoos or topicals. Would like to try RU only if it's not too systemic. Any advice is welcome. Thanks.


 I think u should try Minox first!

----------


## g0910

> I think u should try Minox first!


 Thanks. I guess it's not a bad idea.  It's definitely a lot cheaper than RU. AND, I can always add RU later.

I've really been out of the loop and didn't realize until a few weeks ago that there where so many topical anti-androgen products and special shampoos. That's good news.

Is taking .75 mg of propecia twice a week unheard of?  Thx.

----------


## g0910

> I think u should try Minox first!


 lilpauly, do recommend I try Minox in combo any other topical to speed results? Saba? But I still plan on introducing RU later if results from Minox are not sufficient. Thx.


Oh, One more thing. Should I expect initial shedding from Minox if I've been on Propecia?

----------


## hellouser

> Oh, One more thing. Should I expect initial shedding from Minox if I've been on Propecia?


 Yup.

----------


## michaelmyersnyc

> Yup.


 question. 
say you bought: RU solution 50ML, 8% strength, with select carrier KB solution. how much of this stuff would you use a day for effectiveness?
would a vet please get back to me, thanks.

----------


## lilpauly

> question. 
> say you bought: RU solution 50ML, 8% strength, with select carrier KB solution. how much of this stuff would you use a day for effectiveness?
> would a vet please get back to me, thanks.


 Buy the powder it's much cheaper

----------


## lilpauly

It will also buy much longer and u can adjust the dose , I recommend not to go over 5%

----------


## lilpauly

It will also last  much longer and u can adjust the dose , I recommend not to go over 5%

----------


## michaelmyersnyc

> Buy the powder it's much cheaper


 lol i know that now but the deed is already done lol...im just looking for the answer to the question if u can help?

----------


## lilpauly

> lol i know that now but the deed is already done lol...im just looking for the answer to the question if u can help?


 It all depends really , most people they apply 1ml of ru , sometimes it's a little more , a little less if u target areas . If u bough kb apply it last ,

----------


## Paul73

> First of all you do know how cancer works a bit don't you? If not first watch this video, it is explained easy; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qja4z1HGDQo&feature=kp 
> 
> Btw, sorry I did not mean to offend you. There are many people who use bro- science on the forums. Let's take these 2;
> 
> "I would really like to start with RU right away but I also have problems using a chemical that was not tested on humans at all!
> 
> Especially that it increases cellular replication rate worries me a bit since this is what I would imagine causes cancer (uncontrolled cellular growth)"
> 
> First of all it was tested in humans. Secondly you do know it is completely damn obvious that the cellular replication rate is going to increase (profileration of the cells) when we block the AR. We who have AGA actually lack the profileration rate in our cells (miniaturized hair) against non-aga control. Here just a movie posted about it of the hair congress, you'll understand;
> ...


 Thank you for answering with so many details. I understand your view on it. But the truth is that we will only be 100% sure about RU safety regarding cancer if any company restarts the trials and conclude them. 

Like Pate commented on another thread, it is still an unaproved substance.  This fact makes cancer a possibility.

----------


## hellouser

> Thank you for answering with so many details. I understand your view on it. But the truth is that we will only be 100% sure about RU safety regarding cancer if any company restarts the trials and conclude them. 
> 
> Like Pate commented on another thread, it is still an unaproved substance.  This fact makes cancer a possibility.


 I think the LARGE number of people having used RU58841 over the years should be taken into account.

----------


## burtandernie

A lot of people used it, but its not in documented or in any kind of controlled way so its kind of useless like a bunch of personal testimonials.

----------


## Swooping

> I think the LARGE number of people having used RU58841 over the years should be taken into account.


 True imo. A Japanese company actually sold it too commercially they licensed it from Prostrakan and sold it as a over the counter solution in Japan (temporary). Also after the phase 2a trial they talked about an excellent pharmacological mechanism and no real safety issues. 

http://translate.google.com/translat...US225%26sa%3DN

Sadly pharma companies only think of profit, they don't care about you. If they don't think they can make money of it, forget about it. Seeing how finasteride is a total failure for Merck looking at the annual reports and lawsuits. No wonder nobody picked RU up. Remember when phase 2A was done that was in 2005 i think, the patent life was only 7 more years. Who would be so stupid to pick that up looking at it from a business perspective  :Wink: . If there were real safety issues they would never also try to even search for partnering discussions. They already talk about the market being "modest". Btw they wanted to sell it as a OTC solution just as minoxidil.

----------


## Paul73

> A lot of people used it, but its not in documented or in any kind of controlled way so its kind of useless like a bunch of personal testimonials.


 I agree. And we should also consider that people are using it for a short period of time. So it´s impossible to know if it brings cancer risk since tumors usually take several years to develop. 

BTW, it´s irresponsable to believe that a LOT of testimonials from hair loss forums are enough to define the safety of a substance.

----------


## wesleybelgium

I m using for couple  years, along with dutas minox and dermarolling. Doing full blood checkup at my local hospital in Belgium twice a year for vital organs chackup  and cancer screening. We are blessed to pay only 16 euro for such test because of insurance, so far so good all test shows normal values. you can ask your doctor for full checkup



Ru is my life saver,  it  maintain my  hair while on anabolic steroids, and thicken up existing  hairs , less sides then all anti androgens i tried.

Only sides I notice is dry scalp. i wil make topic with my log .



wesley

----------


## Paul73

> I m using for couple  years, along with dutas minox and dermarolling. Doing full blood checkup at my local hospital in Belgium twice a year for vital organs chackup  and cancer screening. We are blessed to pay only 16 euro for such test because of insurance, so far so good all test shows normal values. you can ask your doctor for full checkup
> 
> 
> 
> Ru is my life saver,  it  maintain my  hair while on anabolic steroids, and thicken up existing  hairs , less sides then all anti androgens i tried.
> 
> Only sides I notice is dry scalp. i wil make topic with my log .
> 
> 
> ...


 Hi Wesley,

Maybe you can check if there is systemic absorption from RU, but  
there are no tests to check if RU is putting you in the risk zone of getting cancer.

I'm sorry to say this but the tests you are doing simply don't tell you if RU is developing a tumor. 

There's no way to check that.

----------


## robodoc

> Oh wait get this. I found the message now. Back when Kane first sent people his KB he sent the ingredients to my friend and sent him polysorbate 80 instead of the luviquat FC 550. lol the guy will throw together whatever sketchy stuff he can to sell to his followers begging him to produce X,Y, or Z. He cares nothing about actually getting it right. This is likely why you experienced wired results with him as who the hell knows what your vehicle really was. Could have had DMSO in it for all we know.


 
Don't knock Kane.   I have had nothing but good service, great prices and a quality product.  His RU works for me.  Sketchy stuff?  I doubt it.

----------


## Swooping

Anyone have a good source for a dropper? My dropper broke it came with a polaris labs product but was really good (glass). I hate to apply it with the shitty droppers minoxidil kirkland gives.

----------


## robodoc

> How can you highly recommend a substance that has not been tested on humans? How can you be sure that in the long run it will not cause cancer? And who says that the company has not abandoned the project precisely because of this risk?
> 
> The truth is that many people are using RU without thinking about the serious consequences. People have used it recently and did not realize that in a few years unpleasant things may start to emerge.
> 
> I hope they rethink whether it's worth it to risk in this way.


 Let me add to the RU argument.  First I will say I use RU and it works.  There are some obvious sexual side effects.  Long term effects I do not know.  I do know this, if RU was safe it would have gone to market.  Isn't that a no brainer?

I will use it at some risk for a time or a bridge to finding something safer to use.  Cancer?  Who knows but we do know there were obvious side effects for it NOT to used on humans.  Beware.  I am in complete agreement with Paul that is ridiculous to think the side effects can not be serious.

----------


## wesleybelgium

I have great results with Ru. Will use it until true cure comes out. blood tests show all perfect! I'm very happy. will post topic soon with pictures  :Smile: . 

Wesley

----------


## Paul73

> I have great results with Ru. Will use it until true cure comes out. blood tests show all perfect! I'm very happy. will post topic soon with pictures . 
> 
> Wesley


 
Good to know that you are getting results. But again: blood tests don't tell you if RU is developing something really serious. 

There aren't tests to check this possibility. Nobody knows what can happen after 5+ years on this substance.

----------


## Swooping

> Good to know that you are getting results. But again: blood tests don't tell you if RU is developing something really serious. 
> 
> There aren't tests to check this possibility. Nobody knows what can happen after 5+ years on this substance.


 Then stay away from this topic mate, no need for your scare mongering. There are 1000's of people using RU with great success. It is even commercially available in indonesia @ 2&#37; solution.  Nobody forces you to use it, simple as that.. Just go with finasteride or dutasteride if you don't like experimentals, options enough.

----------


## wesleybelgium

yes but every 6 months checking levels of sign of cancergrow still could warn you that something is wrong

it seems that you have evidence that ru is bad for us , can you tell us what you know ?
for me all seems good

i think that using any meds at all for 10 years and beyond could give consiquenses but herbals can do this also ( higer doses then nature provides )

i think that every meds give risks in long term use... ( even if its only 0,1 &#37; )

----------


## bradpitthair

> Let me add to the RU argument.  First I will say I use RU and it works.  There are some obvious sexual side effects.  Long term effects I do not know.  I do know this, if RU was safe it would have gone to market.  Isn't that a no brainer?
> 
> I will use it at some risk for a time or a bridge to finding something safer to use.  Cancer?  Who knows but we do know there were obvious side effects for it NOT to used on humans.  Beware.  I am in complete agreement with Paul that is ridiculous to think the side effects can not be serious.


 There are tons of drugs with alot of side effects (i.e. Accutane) and they have gone to market. Safety is not an indicator. Revenue is. RU was available for licensing by ProStrakan. But when it was acquired by another pharmaceutical, they didn't want to acquire the PSK3841 licensing along with it (hair loss drugs were probably not their likely focus).

----------


## Paul73

> Then stay away from this topic mate, no need for your scare mongering. There are 1000's of people using RU with great success. It is even commercially available in indonesia @ 2&#37; solution.  Nobody forces you to use it, simple as that.. Just go with finasteride or dutasteride if you don't like experimentals, options enough.


 I was just trying to tell Wesley that there is no way to verify if RU can develop a cancer in the long run.

Of course nobody forces me to use it, but at the same time i don&#180;t think prudent that RU users recommend for every guy desperate for a solution.

As I said earlier, I intended to use RU. But after searching a lot I found many warnings about the possibility of serious damage in the long run. Even the memorable poster Bryan Shelton made important coments regarding RU safety. You will find his posts at HLH forums. 

And the most serious indicator that there is something wrong: the fact that the company abandoned the project is very suspicious. Do you really think that it was a money issue? Of course not! They woudn&#180;t be stupid at that point. They abandoned it because something related to safety was found.  

Maybe I should stay away from this topic not because you asked me to do it. But because it surprises me to see people recommending RU to everyone without considering the risks in the long run. Cancer is one of them since we don&#180;t know what this substance can do after many years.

BTW, the fact that it is commercially available in indonesia means nothing in terms of security, you certainly know that, no?

----------


## Dan26

@Paul77

Lets be honest man, if we could go back in time to before finasteride was approved by the FDA you would have thousands of people taking the chance to save their follicles.

In fact, the poster boy of BTT, Spencer Kobren, did this!

Some people don't respond well or have sides with the traditional medications, so they seek alternatives. That is why they are exprimental.

We really don't have any reason to believe RU will be harmful long term. Nor did we have any reason to beleive fin could be even after it was approved but before longterm studies were done on it.

I'm not sure if you are fear mongering or trying to convince yourself you made a good decision in not trying this experimental :S

If you see people spreading misinformation then definitely jump in and say something but otherwise I don't see your point here.

----------


## simba

> And the most serious indicator that there is something wrong: the fact that the company abandoned the project is very suspicious. Do you really think that it was a money issue? Of course not! They woudn´t be stupid at that point. They abandoned it because something related to safety was found.


 They abandoned the project because it wasnt stable in solution form.

----------


## Xoxo

> They abandoned the project because it wasnt stable in solution form.


 Why wasn't it stable in solution form? / Who said that?
In the German forum, some chemically professional guy tested the stability in solution at room temperature.
Last result was that it is absolutely stable after 231 days.
The solution used was "Bifon Haarlösung". Many guys of the German forum use it because it is similar to K&B solution and relatively cheap.

----------


## Jajaja

I got some questions regarding ru in general. I'm 20 yrs old, have been balding (noticed it) a year ago.
Some short history:
I Started out with fin where i got some minor bad symptoms, at the sixth month of fin i got chestpains/ gyno burning feelings and i had/have some hard lumps in my chest, i'm not sure it were there before or not. It probably was. 
i stopped using fin and started out minox, and have been using it for 6-7 months, but i'm afraid that it wont save my hair long enough.

Now to the questions:
Anyone that got that burning feeling in the chest from ru alone ? If anyone have had chestpains while using fin and instead started with ru? 
Or just stopped with fin from any bad symptoms, did it come back with ru?

Is the bad symptoms from fin the same as ru?

Is it possible to use the powder directly in the minoxidil liquid?

This might be some stupid questions, but i don't really know what to do in my situation   :Frown:

----------


## Scalpology

Hellouser. What do you think about mixing 6 ml Neogenic capsule with 150 of RU, then applying 1/3rd of capsule every day? That's 2 ml daily with 50 mg of RU. I can apply it pretty well, just started. Is it a good start? Might bump up to 100 mg RU daily (300 mg per capsule of Neogenic). RU dissolves completely in Neogenic.

----------


## Denda

Am I able to have a pharmacy simply order PG for me with no prescription ?

----------


## Californication

> I got some questions regarding ru in general. I'm 20 yrs old, have been balding (noticed it) a year ago.
> Some short history:
> I Started out with fin where i got some minor bad symptoms, at the sixth month of fin i got chestpains/ gyno burning feelings and i had/have some hard lumps in my chest, i'm not sure it were there before or not. It probably was. 
> i stopped using fin and started out minox, and have been using it for 6-7 months, but i'm afraid that it wont save my hair long enough.
> 
> Now to the questions:
> Anyone that got that burning feeling in the chest from ru alone ? If anyone have had chestpains while using fin and instead started with ru? 
> Or just stopped with fin from any bad symptoms, did it come back with ru?
> 
> ...


 Very similar to you. Started treating balding when I was 19.5 with fin and minox. Four months in with fin and I started getting signs of gyno (puffy nips, fat around the area, bigger areolas--> studies show the earliest cases of fin gyno show up at around 4 months so I was sensitive obviously). Went off fin, took nothing for a couple months, hopped on low dosage of RU working my way up from 15/20 mg to 50 mg. 

At 50 mg, started to get weird chest feeling that I can't describe. I think burning might be a good description, it wasn't gyno this time, but it felt bad, and I woke up in the morning (I applied RU at night) with a weird, heavy chest feeling. Didn't like it and didn't think it was worth my health to stay on RU, were a couple cases of other people who were very sensitive experiencing similar things on RU that scared me--> regardless of whether it was RU that causes these problems in other people, I knew it gave me a burning sensation and I didn't think the risk was worth it.. Got off RU for a couple months hopped on to low dosage of fin, 0.25 mg every third day (lowest recommended dosage which I worked up to). Did that for two months at which point gyno symptoms reappeared faster this time, puffy nips and all. Quit fin after 3 months, never going on it again.

Even Saw Palmetto at this point seems to give some gyno symptoms which I'm just not willing to put up with at this point anymore. If I were you I would try one of these pills, I took a hair loss vitamin with about 550 mg of Saw Palmetto a day, biotin, all that stuff and imo it could help you so long as you're not quite as sensitive as me. Still hate hair loss and probably gonna go with something unconventional (SMP) to treat it but I've probably become somewhat more accepting than I used to be about losing hair. Am on minox right now, just bought Kirkland which is minox with DHT blocking properties supposedly so will give that a go perhaps.

Basically, had a similar experience to you at a young age so thought I'd share, sorry don't have any great advice but after scouring the web, there is no solution to those very sensitive to gyno really, just put up with it, hope it stabilizes maybe, or get off the medication. It's not like libido where taking lower doses really helps since the same amount of DHT is blocked roughly speaking by fin. And yes, you can mix RU with minox.

----------


## fran

Hey can anyone help me with this? 

Had an HT 18th June, 3350 grafts. Just ordered 5% premixed RU in KB solution from anageninc. I've been using rogaine foam 2x a day since 4th July; should I apply RU after shower once my hair is dry, then Rogaine foam once RU has dried? I'm worried if I apply the foam first, the RU won't absorb properly. I was thinking of starting on .75 mls or even .5 mls for a few days before going up to 1 ml RU everyday.

Also, do you need to wash your hair every time you apply RU? I usually wash my hair every 2nd day. 

Thanks!

----------


## Jajaja

> txt!


 It really sounds that we had some similar sides. But i did not check if it really was gyno. I only had the burning feeling and some lumps, and i still got lumps left and honestly i don't know if it comes from the fin or if i just got it when i was younger. 

I didnt have any puffy nips or any other changes in that region, but i cut the fin completely a couple of days after the burn and brought a anti-gyno med that many AAS gym guys use, might have saved me. :Cool: 

Started minox at late december last year, and i've been on it since.. But i haven't seen any progress.
 Might going to try ru/propecia in very small doses, if it might help me to keep the hair a while longer, but the sides so far have been to much for me  :Mad:

----------


## robodoc

> Reason was, AFAIK, it was too costly to go through further trials and dropped.


 
I have been using RU but it does not help much.  Is it stll working for you?
I was so happy to see what RU did for you.
Thanks.

----------


## brocktherock

Hey guys, I didn't take before and after pictures but I figured Id at least tell you about my progress. I started ru back in mid april, since then Ive experienced a ton of shedding. My density hasn't come back yet, however Ive noticed a ton of new terminal hairs in my temples and small vellous  hairs that are much shorter than are just coming in. This is definitely not in my head, I was somewhat skeptical about ru but I bought it out of desperation. If Im lucky I hope to get my density back in a few more months like hellouser did. If my temples continue growing at this rate then that's incredible progress. I haven't experienced any side effects so I started using a little more than hellouser. Im thinking of adding finasteride if my density returns so I can focus on maintaining but that's a bit risky. I know without pictures you don't really care and you shouldn't but I figured Id at least contribute something.

----------


## Kudu

^Thanks for sharing! I'm hoping to get on RU soon and it's always good to hear something positive for a change.

----------


## efedrez

Hello Guys,

Just want to share my experience changing vehicles with RU.

I was using RU (on and off) with PG and everclear for over a month but was felling tenderness in my chest and sometimes something that can be describe as a burning sensation in my body (pretty odd felling).

I decided to change to the KB vehicle and bought a 3% solution from Anagen (of course I'm worry of sides so I didn't want to go over 3% for now) and so far so good

Its been only a week so nothing to report in terms of results yet but hopefully will see some improvements in about a couple of months

Does anyone knows why KB can be potentially better in terms of sides? is 3% to low to experience significant results (I'm applying 1 ml a day)?

----------


## lucrio

> Hello Guys,
> 
> Just want to share my experience changing vehicles with RU.
> 
> I was using RU (on and off) with PG and everclear for over a month but was felling tenderness in my chest and sometimes something that can be describe as a burning sensation in my body (pretty odd felling).
> 
> I decided to change to the KB vehicle and bought a 3% solution from Anagen (of course I'm worry of sides so I didn't want to go over 3% for now) and so far so good
> 
> Its been only a week so nothing to report in terms of results yet but hopefully will see some improvements in about a couple of months
> ...


 I have never used KB but from what I have heard the reason it is suspected to be better in terms of sides is because of a film that it creates on or under the skin, not sure which or how. This film is supposed to block more RU from absorbing past the skin and into the body. So in essence, the RU stays on and under the skin, but does not go any further than that so it cannot be absorbed systemically. 

I have no idea if this is true, but that is the idea. I am currently using RU 5%  in PG/everclear and feel like I may be experiencing some sides. Mainly lower libido and softer and less frequent erections. 

Out of curiosity, what percent strength were you using when you used PG/Everlcear? Also, has using KB completely eliminated your sides? I have though about perhaps trying KB or lowering my percent strength. Also, your 3% should definitely still be strong enough to see results. When i first started, I worked my way up from 1%, eventually reaching 5%, and when I was at about 2-3%, i still saw a lot less shedding and small vellus regrowth at the hairline.

----------


## efedrez

> Out of curiosity, what percent strength were you using when you used PG/Everlcear? Also, has using KB completely eliminated your sides? I have though about perhaps trying KB or lowering my percent strength. Also, your 3% should definitely still be strong enough to see results. When i first started, I worked my way up from 1%, eventually reaching 5%, and when I was at about 2-3%, i still saw a lot less shedding and small vellus regrowth at the hairline.


 I was using about 2 or 3% as well so I would say any improvements in terms of sides is not related to the amount of RU but to the vehicle.

Its been only a week for me on KB so it might be too soon to tell if sides will be gone for good but I can tell you that there is an improvement for sure.

I will post again in a couple of weeks and report on it

Thanks

----------


## Sammygirl

I've come across other RU guides. But, by far this seems the most honest and documented guide. Great work Hellouser. Many will find this useful. I second the idea that you should write a book! I will be checking out your link.

----------


## Hairismylife

Wanna know which is the best source of RU.  Kane? IG? mpbtreatment or others?
And if I use RU with CB will there be duplicated function?

----------


## doke

hi I get mine premixed from kane anagenic 5% in kb solution and im happy with it. I do not think you need to use cb with it and anyway I am not sure cb is any better than ru.

----------


## inbrugge

doke, do you have any info about topical fin? is it effective? is it good to use in combination with ru?

----------


## doke

to be honest if ru works for you why do you need finasteride although im on dutasteride oral but that's for prostate.

----------


## Jazz1

> doke, do you have any info about topical fin? is it effective? is it good to use in combination with ru?


 
 I would leave RU as last resort, topical FIN works but everyone is different if FIN and DUt fails than I would use RU as last resort.

----------


## Jazz1

> to be honest if ru works for you why do you need finasteride although im on dutasteride oral but that's for prostate.


 Wow that's some regime, how's your hair?

----------


## Hairismylife

> hi I get mine premixed from kane anagenic 5% in kb solution and im happy with it. I do not think you need to use cb with it and anyway I am not sure cb is any better than ru.


 Isn't self-made better? I heard that Ru will start to become unstable once dissolved.  It takes more than ten days to arrive and the temperature of storage on the way of transportation worries me.

----------


## doke

Ru as seen at hairsite and regrowth com is better than finasteride and side effect free non systemic that's why for many years people were trying to get hold of it.

----------


## hellouser

> Ru as seen at hairsite and regrowth com is better than finasteride and side effect free non systemic that's why for many years people were trying to get hold of it.


 It's not side effect free, I can guarantee you that. I hopped back on RU a couple weeks ago after a bit of hiatus and noticed a dull ache in my balls.

----------


## burtandernie

> Ru as seen at hairsite and regrowth com is better than finasteride and side effect free non systemic that's why for many years people were trying to get hold of it.


 How can you possibly know RU is sides free? Have you been secretly studying this stuff in your basement for the last few years or something? This is all assuming of course that RU you have is actually consistently produced to purity and potency standards if they even have any in whatever country it comes from

----------


## Hairismylife

> It's not side effect free, I can guarantee you that. I hopped back on RU a couple weeks ago after a bit of hiatus and noticed a dull ache in my balls.


 I'm more worried about it's carcinogenic.

----------


## hellouser

> I'm more worried about it's carcinogenic.


 Everything causes cancer. Including hair loss and hair growth.

----------


## inbrugge

> Everything causes cancer. Including hair loss and hair growth.


 Yes that is true, but there are different levels of carnicogens. Just driving in your car increases your chance of skin cancer, but there is a difference between that and a tanning booth. Good grief, I have a batch of RU that I was planning to start on for the first time this week, but I didn't think about this factor. I was only focused on the usual 'fin' sides. 

What testing, if any, has RU been put under? Is there any studies on it done safety (not just effectivity)? Is it being a carnicogen a real concern or are you just speculating, hairismylife?

----------


## hellouser

> Yes that is true, but there are different levels of carnicogens. Just driving in your car increases your chance of skin cancer, but there is a difference between that and a tanning booth. Good grief, I have a batch of RU that I was planning to start on for the first time this week, but I didn't think about this factor. I was only focused on the usual 'fin' sides. 
> 
> What testing, if any, has RU been put under? Is there any studies on it done safety (not just effectivity)? Is it being a carnicogen a real concern or are you just speculating, hairismylife?


 RU58841 went through some clinical trials but eventually it got the axe. It was pretty safe. I have never heard of it being a carcinogen.

----------


## Hairismylife

> Yes that is true, but there are different levels of carnicogens. Just driving in your car increases your chance of skin cancer, but there is a difference between that and a tanning booth. Good grief, I have a batch of RU that I was planning to start on for the first time this week, but I didn't think about this factor. I was only focused on the usual 'fin' sides. 
> 
> What testing, if any, has RU been put under? Is there any studies on it done safety (not just effectivity)? Is it being a carnicogen a real concern or are you just speculating, hairismylife?


 Just speculating but you know, every chemical without comprehensive testing has potential risk.  It may not be the fact but we just dont know.

----------


## Swooping

RU isn't pretty much a experimental anymore imo. There have been literally 100's probably 1000's guys who have used it. Some went as far as 400mg~ daily. Users been on it for more than 3 years while some even up to 10 years long. FDA phase 3 shit means nothing to this. 

We can all quite assume with high accuracy or actually be 100% certain that RU behaves like a normal anti androgen without off side target effects. It can definitely induce side effects in certain people though. Nothing at the moment is completely side effect free. But you'll notice it fast if it accumulates in your system because your lipid profile will change, just like any anti-androgen would do. 

I have though about production and quality risk. But we have sources which deliver 99+% so that's not a problem at all. Just look at how many people buy hormones from the underground bodybuilding labs. Winstrol, testosterone, trenbolone, turinabol, anavar etc. All made by underground labs and literally 100000'S of people buy this stuff and even INJECT certain stuff. 

I highly believe that RU is even a safer choice than propecia although we don't have evidence for this, this is just my personal opinion. But nobody can really say at this point that propecia is safer too. Fact is; everything carries a bit of risk. If you want to carry 0% risk don't go with any treatment, but we all know what that will do.

----------


## doke

I have never heard of ru causing cancer its a non steroid antiandrogen and in trials it was safe and non systemic that's why over the many years its been unavailable premixed people wanted to get hold of it.
As said by john ertel at regrowth com it is the mother of all antiandrogens and with the fact it is only working at the hair follicle non systemic in other words at the doses used in the trials.
So anyone who says they are having problems in the lower regions it will not cause that problem to be honest I got aches in my balls when not taking anything.

----------


## Hairismylife

But US Government bans RU import. Maybe US Goverment knows sth risky?

----------


## Jazz1

> But US Government bans RU import. Maybe US Goverment knows sth risky?


 Lol what a funny quote! They probably more concerned about propecia sales! You do know the US government does not ban GMO. You do know the GMO shit Monsanto created causes cancer? Why good old US does not seem to be doing much here lol.

----------


## bradpitthair

anyone who hasn't used RU shouldn't really comment on whether it's safe or systemic or not. I've used RU for a month and it went fully systemic. I've stopped RU of course, it doesn't make sense to use it long term if I'm experiencing noticeable sides so early. Before I started RU, my belief was that they didn't market it because it was a topical and it wouldn't compete against other products but after having tried it, I'm fairly certain that the side effects caused by this was one of the main causes. This is a potent androgen antagonist, belonging to the same family as the *lutamides.

----------


## inbrugge

I'm on my 4th day of a very low Ru dosage (10 mg). So far nothing but a little tingling down stairs. I'm planning to go upto 20 mg which is ideal for me in a few days. Also, I'm using Neogenic as the vehicle. I'm starting to believe the vehicle is very crucial in goong systematic or not. I have a crazy spike in body hair (arms, hands, brows) since Minox. Pretty sure that's a sign that it's going systematic.

Hellouser, I have a question for you. You're using Minox, so why not dump your Ru into your minox? But rather make a separate vehicle for it?

----------


## Illusion

Hellouser (or any other person that is on RU and/or has some knowledge about RU,

I'm 16 years old (almost 17) and because of that, propecia is out of the question (have to be 18 at least) and even when I turn 18, I dont want to **** with my development as a male by drastically reducing my DHT levels while not even fully developed yet.

Because of this, RU seems like an ideal option to me. But, what do you think about the safety of RU for young adults (or in this case, even children)? Could there be any potentional risks for me because of my age? And what are common side effects of RU in general?

RU is expensive, but at the rate I'm balding I dont have much choice, thats why I'm so interested in RU. Halting hairloss right now would be great. So what do you think? Safety-wise, could I start with RU?

Edit: I just realised that I'm blessed with my father, as he's a pharmacist. I think I could get a little help from him, so preparing my RU is going to be pretty safe.

----------


## robodoc

> Hello Guys,
> 
> Just want to share my experience changing vehicles with RU.
> 
> I was using RU (on and off) with PG and everclear for over a month but was felling tenderness in my chest and sometimes something that can be describe as a burning sensation in my body (pretty odd felling).
> 
> I decided to change to the KB vehicle and bought a 3% solution from Anagen (of course I'm worry of sides so I didn't want to go over 3% for now) and so far so good
> 
> Its been only a week so nothing to report in terms of results yet but hopefully will see some improvements in about a couple of months
> ...


 Look, I won;t claim to be the expert but I do have some background in solvents. I doubt KB is any better than Iso alcohol 91%.  Alcoholic, and I have said this before, solutions are well absorbed.

Chest pain, fullness, palpitations are caused by RU in my opinion.  There are side effects to everything so beware.  Some people are more affected than others in this regard.  We all are "playing in the dark".

----------


## doke

hi ill I know you asked hell but first of all have you seen a doctor to find out what sort of hairloss you have? as it maynot be mpb.
If its male pattern loss you have have you tried topical minoxidil as even if you use ru you will need a regrowth agent to use in combination.
I myself use ru and minox foam and found them to be a good combination you could start with topical spironolactone instead of ru or try minoxidil first with azelaic acid.
What ever you choose you need to use at least for 3-6 months for minoxidil to work.

----------


## Illusion

I've been to my GP and to a dermatologist and both told me I had MPB.

Thanks for concerning about me but RU is basically my only shot (like I said, finasteride is out of the question because of my age). I dont need to regrow any hair. I just need to keep the hair I have right now. So minoxidil isnt going to do much as minoxidil doesnt treat the underlying cause of MPB. Besides, I know a lot of people want to see pictures from persons who are on RU only, so by doing this I kind of give something back to the community too.

There's a very high chance I'll start using RU within 2 months or so and I'm pretty excited tbh. How long do I need to use it to get an idea if it's working properly or not?

----------


## inbrugge

Illusion, I don't want to be a downer but I wouldn't say RU is a safer alternative to Finasteride. The only props that I see is that it's applied topically. Chemical wise, it works pretty much the same as Fin or Dut as far as I know. Now again, I'm not the most qualified guy here.

Just an update of my situation...so about a week on Ru, my shedding was fluctuating, somedays really low. In general I felt my scalp was doing better. I had no noticable side effects except extra tingling down stairs. 

However, I did notice that my semen was unusually watery which is a total no-no for me. So, my Ru experiment has been concluded as such. I didn't have any errectile dysfunction or anything. Was waking up with morning wood, good sign. But now almost 4 days after quitting, still my semen is more liquidy than normal. 

So how long does this crap stay in the system? 

I'm hoping it clears out by next week. I don't want to be playing russian roulette with my fertility for a treatment which has limited results. I'm hoping things return back to normal, then I will see how topical fin fairs.

----------


## doke

I have said this before ru is a non systemic non steroid antiandrogen and at 5% 1 to 2mls a day which is what I use is better to me than the orals.
I have tried dutasteride and finasteride and I get more hairloss, with ru it halts the loss.
Go and look at the old post by john ertel at regrowth com on ru and he said it was the mother of all antiandrogens but anyone remember bryan Shelton who is sadly no longer with us he said ru was nothing special but with the trials many since the 1990s wanted to get to use it so there must be something good about it if its the genuine article that is.
There was stability issues and that the powder must be kept in the freezer and mixing fresh batches is good although kanes ready mixed 5% and 8% in kb solution which I use I like.
I have mixed my own and maydo again but laziness made me buy the ready mixed. :Cool:

----------


## cichlidfort

> I have said this before ru is a non systemic non steroid antiandrogen and at 5% 1 to 2mls a day which is what I use is better to me than the orals.
> I have tried dutasteride and finasteride and I get more hairloss, with ru it halts the loss.
> Go and look at the old post by john ertel at regrowth com on ru and he said it was the mother of all antiandrogens but anyone remember bryan Shelton who is sadly no longer with us he said ru was nothing special but with the trials many since the 1990s wanted to get to use it so there must be something good about it if its the genuine article that is.
> There was stability issues and that the powder must be kept in the freezer and mixing fresh batches is good although kanes ready mixed 5% and 8% in kb solution which I use I like.
> I have mixed my own and maydo again but laziness made me buy the ready mixed.


 
Wrong. It's called shedding which means it's WORKING!

----------


## Plan C

Hi all,

I'm going to switch from RU in KB solution to RU in Neogenic as I'm keen to use RU before minox and not after (KB creates a film that prevents anything else entering the scalp so this isn't currently possible).

In his original post, hellouser recommends that you apply RU straight after showering to maximise its efficacy. I was intending to do this with RU in Neo - is this wise? Isn't there a chance of systemic absorption?

Also, I'm currently using 100mg of RU a day. Should I continue with this amount in Neo?

----------


## inbrugge

Everybody is different. You're using 100 mg RU with minimal side effects. I used ru with neo only 10 mg for 1 week and had watery ejaculate. So it depends on how your body handles it.

----------


## Plan C

> Everybody is different. You're using 100 mg RU with minimal side effects. I used ru with neo only 10 mg for 1 week and had watery ejaculate. So it depends on how your body handles it.


 My thinking is that once I start using RU directly after showering, it will penetrate the skin much better (currently it has to penetrate remnants of minox and sebum first), which could result in side effects.

----------


## Illusion

Ok so I start to understand that RU probably does go systematic but in a much lesser amount than fin? Basically this is my last hope (at least until my 18th) so I'm very likely to try this anyway. Also, whenever I apply RU, females (esp pregnant onces) can absolutely NOT touch my hair, right? I thought this made sense because of the antial-androgen  effects RU has.

I've heard people say it before: to make a topical work, it has to go systematic. Now I don't necessarily know if that is true, but it would make some sense. I just really hope that RU is safe but I guess it could have the same side effects as fin (in general but also women).

----------


## doke

> Ok so I start to understand that RU probably does go systematic but in a much lesser amount than fin? Basically this is my last hope (at least until my 18th) so I'm very likely to try this anyway. Also, whenever I apply RU, females (esp pregnant onces) can absolutely NOT touch my hair, right? I thought this made sense because of the antial-androgen  effects RU has.
> 
> I've heard people say it before: to make a topical work, it has to go systematic. Now I don't necessarily know if that is true, but it would make some sense. I just really hope that RU is safe but I guess it could have the same side effects as fin (in general but also women).


 Wrong it does not have to go systemic only locally to the hair follicle and that's why ru was so good?

----------


## Illusion

> Wrong it does not have to go systemic only locally to the hair follicle and that's why ru was so good?


 Yeah you're right. I was a bit confused when I typed it lol. But even if it does go systematic it's not really a problem because of its short half life. Finasteride will be in your body for weeks (at least), RU will be out within 1-2 days. At least, that's what I heard.


Still have a few questions regarding RU, but these are mainly towards RU users because it are mostly questions of "how to?".

- What dosage should I start? I know you ,hellouser, recommend to do 100mg/day, but maybe I can use less and still get the same results? If I start with 100mg immediately while I could get the same effect using 75mg (for example), than that would be a waste of RU. I was actually thinking of starting with 50mg/day but I'd like some input on this.

- I have pretty long hair (about 10cm) on top, does that change the way of applying? I know shorter hair is easier for applying RU (or any topical really) but I was planning on keeping this hairstyle. Dont know if this is going to give any problems though?

- When you go on holiday or are away from home for some time (let's say 4 weeks), do you premix your RU for all those weeks or do you take your powder with you? I'm not necessarily afraid of customs or anything, it's more the stability of the RU-powder that worries me. When you premix RU it stays ok for quite a while on room temperature, right?

- How long does it approx take before I can notice any change in shedding (if I respond well that is)? I've heard people say that it stopped shedding cold turkey for them, which isn't that unrealistic considering how RU works (I have a general idea on how it works now).

- Last question: what kind of pictures should I be taking? With this I mean if I should photograph the hairs from a very close distant too or just the regular crown and hairline pics. (for the record, I'm a NW2 with diffuse shedding in a NW5/NW6 pattern). When my RU arrives, I'll start a thread for you guys to be able to follow my 'journey'. I'll try to get as much quality pics as possible (I have a decent camera and I'm going to ask someone to take the pics for me so I can get the best angle). 


A friend will be ordering my RU very soon so I'll be getting it before October I guess. I'd order it myself but I don't have paypal (too young). I would have bought more than 5g but I'd like to first 'try RU' to see if it isn't giving me any sides. I know it's not supposed to give me sides, but you never know. It's an experimental drug after all...

I would very much appreciate if any RU users/experts comment on my questions.

----------


## doke

I think that 50mgs twice a day or 1.5 to 2mls is a good start for at least six months then increase if you need to but a 5% mix is good.
Although kanes ready mixed goes up to an 8% in 50mls which maybe good if you have severe stage of mpb.
Or some start with a higher dose then decrease it when you have the desired result, to be honest its trial and error due to our different hormones. :Smile:

----------


## Illusion

hehe true, it's a bit of trial and error. Why 50mg twice a day though? I thought once a day was fine?

----------


## Plan C

In his original post, hellouser recommends that you apply RU straight after showering to maximise its efficacy. I was intending to do this with RU in Neogenic - is this wise? Isn't there a chance of systemic absorption?

Also, I'm currently using 100mg of RU in KB solution. Should I continue with this amount in Neo?

----------


## doke

> hehe true, it's a bit of trial and error. Why 50mg twice a day though? I thought once a day was fine?


 The idea of twice a day is that your scalp gets spaced out dht constant over many hours like minoxidil 12 hours apart twice a day.
Your scalp during and after first application of ru may get more oily during the day mine does especially at the temples and on the crown.
I suppose its best if once a day is like I do 1.5mls at night after washing hair or wipe scalp with a wet cloth to dampen scalp to make sure you have no sebum there. Myself think its better to have a complete dry scalp to apply minox or ru but that's the way  i do it.

----------


## Illusion

> The idea of twice a day is that your scalp gets spaced out dht constant over many hours like minoxidil 12 hours apart twice a day.
> Your scalp during and after first application of ru may get more oily during the day mine does especially at the temples and on the crown.
> I suppose its best if once a day is like I do 1.5mls at night after washing hair or wipe scalp with a wet cloth to dampen scalp to make sure you have no sebum there. Myself think its better to have a complete dry scalp to apply minox or ru but that's the way  i do it.


 Ah I see. I'm probably just going to apply RU right after showering though so I can get the best absorbation. I don't know how long it takes for the RU to get fully absorbed into your scalp so once I find out, I can decide if 2 times a day is convenient for me (and necessary, based on my results). Maybe even a dermaroller later on, but for now this will do.

Could you answer my questions regarding results (when did you notice that you were shedding less) and being away from home for a long time (what do you do then? Take your RU with you and mix everything on holiday / put your RU into KB solution / ???)

----------


## doke

> Ah I see. I'm probably just going to apply RU right after showering though so I can get the best absorbation. I don't know how long it takes for the RU to get fully absorbed into your scalp so once I find out, I can decide if 2 times a day is convenient for me (and necessary, based on my results). Maybe even a dermaroller later on, but for now this will do.
> 
> Could you answer my questions regarding results (when did you notice that you were shedding less) and being away from home for a long time (what do you do then? Take your RU with you and mix everything on holiday / put your RU into KB solution / ???)


 To be honest its no good asking about other peoples results as you really need to try for yourself its like minoxidil some it works for and others it does nothing.
As to my hair loss I have now zero loss when washing hair which is good and going on holiday as I use ready mixed which is in a small bottle, as I do not fly anywhere im not sure with security at airports you can take the solution in the metal bottles.

----------


## Illusion

> To be honest its no good asking about other peoples results as you really need to try for yourself its like minoxidil some it works for and others it does nothing.
> As to my hair loss I have now zero loss when washing hair which is good and going on holiday as I use ready mixed which is in a small bottle, as I do not fly anywhere im not sure with security at airports you can take the solution in the metal bottles.


 
Nice results. Does the premixed RU stay good for a few weeks on room temperature or no?

----------


## doke

Anagenic say its good up to 6 months at room temp.

----------


## Illusion

It stays good up to 6 months premixed in PG and alcohol? That's new to me...

----------


## diffuseloser

Ordered my first batch of RU from Anageninc two weeks ago. Emailed them to see what's going on and it's stuck in customs. See email reply below for some interesting info on the RU. Apparently, this new stuff doesn't degrade as quickly as the older
batches of RU. Anyone else heard anything about this? 

"please refer to our FAQ, our ru58841 won't drop in purity at all, for 1 year in room temperature, its structure is very stable. Old batches had to be kept cool, this problem has been resolved for ever with our ROS.

for more info please check our faq: www.anageninc.com/faq


Q) What is the shelf life of your research compounds?

A) Our unique ROS RU58841 is stable up to 1 year in solid form at room temperature in a cool dry place away from direct sunlight. In the freezer it is stable for at least 2 years. Our unique RU solutions are stable up to 6 months in room temperature. Keep away from direct sunlight.“

----------


## doke

That's why you should use kb solution as it keeps it stable?

----------


## diffuseloser

The way I interpret this is that this new "ROS" RU in raw powder form, will remain stable for 1 year at room temperature and the premixed RU in KB solution for 6 months. It doesn't mean that KB solution is necessary to keep it stable. This is quite an achievement and I have no idea how they've managed to do this but it's positive for us as it basically elimates the need to store RU in fridge/freezer. Personally, I'll still be storing mine in the fridge for peace of mind. Perhaps Kane/Anageninc found it necessary to find a way to prolong the lifespan of useable RU due to issues with customs. I don't care either way as long as it works. I'll be mixing mine with a small amount of isopropyl to dissolve the RU and then dump it into minoxidil and see how it goes for a few months.

----------


## doke

what I said kb solution has preservers in it im not sure about there ready mixed non kb though I think kb maybe what rousell used in the trials.
There was remember trials of the ru588412 myristate as well which was supposed to be better than non myristate ru?

----------


## diffuseloser

I'm not 100% sure mate. I'm fairly new to all this and just trying to apply the knowledge gained on these forums. Gonna give it a go with minoxidil as I'm already having fairly decent maintenance with minoxidil alone, so putting some RU in the mix can't hurt. There's so many variables, it's overwhelming. I'll give KB solution a go in the next batch I order.

----------


## Boldy

RU itself should be stable in ethanol. K&B was just designed to minimize sideffects if im not mistaken.

I have found a way to get rid of the most sides. I'm currently 2 weeks on about 0.9- 1.2% ru in a modified vehicle that should go less systematic. and experimenting with K&B with extra water.

I hope to maintain and get some thickening with this dose.

----------


## Hairismylife

> RU itself should be stable in ethanol. K&B was just designed to minimize sideffects if im not mistaken.
> 
> I have found a way to get rid of the most sides. I'm currently 2 weeks on about 0.9- 1.2% ru in a modified vehicle that should go less systematic. and experimenting with K&B with extra water.
> 
> I hope to maintain and get some thickening with this dose.


 Isn't 0.9~1.2% a too low dosage to work?

----------


## Boldy

> Isn't 0.9~1.2% a too low dosage to work?


 there are some cases on other forum where people have maintenance + bit thickening with 1% dose. for me it is too early to tell if it is working but I can tell that there is less sebum and no itching which is positive. I'm using ru only on the hairline though.

----------


## Hairismylife

> there are some cases on other forum where people have maintenance + bit thickening with 1% dose. for me it is too early to tell if it is working but I can tell that there is less sebum and no itching which is positive. I'm using ru only on the hairline though.


 I know somebody use 10%,not necessary I think.
But I will start at 2%

----------


## Boldy

i have been using 3 ml last couple days which is equal to  about 30 mg or 3% without sides or problems. my vehicle is 50% ethanol, 25% water and 25% glycerin, so less ethanol than the average person is using.

if you have a 3-5 % solution and you have sides, what you can do is dilute it with water+  pg or glycerin.

Ru58841 has a pretty short halflife in the plasma (about 1 hour) which in can be even further reduced by taking P450 enzyme inducers. a good natural candidate which is St john's wort.






> St John's wort (Hypericum perforatum) has been one of the most commonly used herbal remedies for mood disorders [1], and is also well-known as a potent inducer of cytochrome P450 (CYP) 3A [25]. A great number of studies have demonstrated the potential reduction in drug efficacy due to the decrement of plasma drug concentrations during the period of concomitant use of St John's wort [6, 7].


 
it does exactly the opposite of grapefruit juce, which inhibit the p450 liver enzyemes. 


we use topicals to directly target the receptors in the dermal papilla. the hair root is a great peneration pathway along with a good penetration enhancer which the most toppicals have (ethanol).

However depending on the vehicle, your skin type, sebum production and the molecule size, some %  of the drug will go systematic and will cause an effect where you don't want it. often seen as side-effect. something we want as less as possible.

here is a study that shows that plasma drug clearance was achieved 50% faster with addition of st-johns wort.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13129991




> A 2-fold decrease in the area under the curve for alprazolam plasma concentration vs time (P<.001) and a 2-fold increase in alprazolam clearance (P<.001) were observed following St John's wort administration. Alprazolam elimination half-life was shortened from a mean (SD) of* 12.4* (3.9) hours *to 6.0* (2.4) hours (P<.001). The mean (SD) urinary ratio of dextromethorphan to its metabolite was 0.006 (0.010) at baseline and 0.014 (0.025) after St John's wort administration (P =.26).


 


> CONCLUSIONS:
> A 14-day course of St John's wort administration significantly induced the activity of CYP 3A4 as measured by changes in alprazolam pharmacokinetics. This suggests that long-term administration of St John's wort may result in diminished clinical effectiveness or increased dosage requirements for all CYP 3A4 substrates, *which represent at least 50% of all marketed medications.
> *


 


> t St. Johns wort 
> induced P-gp, a drug transporter protein. 
> Co-administration of St. Johns wort also 
> markedly induced human CYP3A4, 
> CYP2E1 and CYP2C19 whereas it had no 
> appreciable effect on CYP1A2, CYP2C9 
> and CYP2D6


 
Now I'm not 100% sure yet  if ru is metabolized via cyp3a4, CYP2E1 and CYP2C19, but I will find out the coming weeks  :Smile:

----------


## Kudu

Thanks for posting this Boldy, very interesting. Definitely something to read up on.

----------


## Kudu

Guys, does kane accept paypal for RU? If not, how do you wire money via western union? I'm running out of time, I'll probably be a NW 4 within 6 months.

----------


## diffuseloser

Isn't RU insoluble in water Boldy? Just got my latest batch of RU from Kane and it states this on the packing slip. Made up my solution this evening and it was dead easy as I don't have to worry about RU degrading anymore. Simply dumped all 5grams of RU in a measuring jug and covered it with just enough isopropyl. Then dumped in 60ml Kirkland minoxidil. Put the covered measuring jug in the sink and filled it with hot water. Dissolved completely in under an hour with some stirring and not a crystal in sight. Then just filled up an empty Kirkland bottle with the solution. I'm good to go for a month or more. Wish me luck.

----------


## diffuseloser

Kudu, Kane now accepting PayPal.

----------


## Boldy

> Isn't RU insoluble in water Boldy? Just got my latest batch of RU from Kane and it states this on the packing slip. Made up my solution this evening and it was dead easy as I don't have to worry about RU degrading anymore. Simply dumped all 5grams of RU in a measuring jug and covered it with just enough isopropyl. Then dumped in 60ml Kirkland minoxidil. Put the covered measuring jug in the sink and filled it with hot water. Dissolved completely in under an hour with some stirring and not a crystal in sight. Then just filled up an empty Kirkland bottle with the solution. I'm good to go for a month or more. Wish me luck.


 

No, at-least not here. when i go under the 35% ethanol the solution becomes cloudy.

----------


## Kudu

> Kudu, Kane now accepting PayPal.


 Thanks man, so you order through PayPal without any issues? Just checking because I plan on ordering later today.

----------


## diffuseloser

Well I had a problem with customs with my last order but all you gotta do is contact Kane and he will send you another batch out right away. RU is no longer a nightmare to prepare either. How many grams are you ordering and what vehicle are you planning to use buddy?

----------


## joely

> Isn't RU insoluble in water Boldy? Just got my latest batch of RU from Kane and it states this on the packing slip. Made up my solution this evening and it was dead easy as I don't have to worry about RU degrading anymore. Simply dumped all 5grams of RU in a measuring jug and covered it with just enough isopropyl. Then dumped in 60ml Kirkland minoxidil. Put the covered measuring jug in the sink and filled it with hot water. Dissolved completely in under an hour with some stirring and not a crystal in sight. Then just filled up an empty Kirkland bottle with the solution. I'm good to go for a month or more. Wish me luck.


 
How would you store it?

----------


## diffuseloser

I just put the bottled solution in a ziplock bag and in the fridge to avoid contamination of food products. May be a bit OTT but gives me peace of mind. I usually take the bottle out about one hour before application to allow the solution to warm to near room temperature as I don't think applying it when cold would give the best efficacy. Basic chemistry theory that the molecules penetrate better at a warmer temperature. Either that or fill the sink with warm water and put the sealed bottle in to get the molecules moving. Of course applying it to your head cold, it wouldn't be long warming up with your body heat but I feel better applying it at a warmer temperature. Then back into the fridge immediately after application.

----------


## joely

Thanks diffuse loser, one last thing if you don't mind, do you find it works well mixing it with minox? and what type of results are you getting\?

----------


## diffuseloser

No worries mate. To be honest, this is the first time I'm giving RU a proper go. I dicked around too much before, so I can't base any results on something I didn't take seriously. I will keep you updated though because I'm giving it a proper run this time with no missed applications. The reason I'm using minoxidil as a vehicle is for two reasons. Firstly, I'm getting decent enough maintenance with minoxidil alone. I think the loss has hit a standstill. Second reason is that I work full time and I don't have time to be messing around with multiple applications of different solutions. So one application of minoxil/RU at night is what I'm going for right now. It dissolves perfectly in minoxidil with a little isopropyl to help it along. If you are having trouble just bathe the mixing container in hot water to help the process. As long as there are no RU crystals left in the solution, you're good.

----------


## diffuseloser

I use isopropyl because we can't get hold of Everclear in the UK. If you're able to obtain Everclear, go with that.

----------


## joely

Im in the UK aswell so wnt be able to get it either! how much isopropyl do you use

----------


## diffuseloser

Don't really know for sure. I try to use as little isopropyl as possible. Just enough to saturate the RU powder pretty good. Off the top of my head, it was only around 10-15ml of isopropyl with 5 grams of RU powder. Just let it sit in there for a while and swish it about. You don't want it evaporating so add in your minoxidil pretty sharpish and continue swishing it about or stirring until fully dissolved.

----------


## abrorcasanova

Hi, I am planning to start RU next month as soon as I move to UK and will certainly keep a blog and record all updates.

But I have a question and would appreciate an answer.

If I am sensitive towards ppg, what alternatives can I use to mix RU with? I could use KB solution obviously, but then when can I apply minoxidil (I am on it already, and the results aint that good)

Thank you.

----------


## kmit028

> Hi, I am planning to start RU next month as soon as I move to UK and will certainly keep a blog and record all updates.
> 
> But I have a question and would appreciate an answer.
> 
> If I am sensitive towards ppg, what alternatives can I use to mix RU with? I could use KB solution obviously, but then when can I apply minoxidil (I am on it already, and the results aint that good)
> 
> Thank you.


 You can substitute PG with BG (Butylene Glycol). A lot of people recommend this approach
So instead of 70/30 Ethanol/PG, go 70/30 Ethanol/BG

----------


## Plan C

I'm currently using 100mg RU in 3ml Neogenic ED. Would there be any advantage in using less Neogenic per application, perhaps 2ml or 1.5ml? Clearly the solution would be more concentrated, but since the amount of actual RU would remain the same, would there actually be any benefits of making this adjustment?

----------


## Swooping

> I'm currently using 100mg RU in 3ml Neogenic ED. Would there be any advantage in using less Neogenic per application, perhaps 2ml or 1.5ml? Clearly the solution would be more concentrated, but since the amount of actual RU would remain the same, would there actually be any benefits of making this adjustment?


 Good question, something you have got to try yourself though. Perhaps 5% will work better for you, who knows.

----------


## Plan C

> I use isopropyl because we can't get hold of Everclear in the UK. If you're able to obtain Everclear, go with that.


 I live in the UK too and want to start using RU in pg/ ethanol rather than in Neogenic. Do you think this stuff would be a better alternative to isopropyl? As you mentioned, everclear is probably ideal but we can't get it here.

https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-15105.aspx

----------


## Vincent777

Breaking bald!

----------


## deuce

Damn I wish I wasn't scared to take RU

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Ordered my first batch of RU from Anageninc two weeks ago. Emailed them to see what's going on and it's stuck in customs. See email reply below for some interesting info on the RU. Apparently, this new stuff doesn't degrade as quickly as the older
> batches of RU. Anyone else heard anything about this? 
> 
> "please refer to our FAQ, our ru58841 won't drop in purity at all, for 1 year in room temperature, its structure is very stable. Old batches had to be kept cool, this problem has been resolved for ever with our ROS.
> 
> for more info please check our faq: www.anageninc.com/faq
> 
> 
> Q) What is the shelf life of your research compounds?
> ...


 Where are you located? I'm worried about it coming into US customs. Has anyone got it in the states?

----------


## Illusion

So I've read a lot about RU already. I've got my RU lying in my freezer already and have the proper ingredients (pg / ethanol) to make my vehicle.

What % (dosage) should I start? 5%?

Also, I'm going to visit another country next month for a 1 week and will be away for a full month later in 2015. I'm not able to take all my stuff with me to mix it there, so I have to premix it. I've heard many people say that RU is stable for a long time nowadays on room temperature, but i assume that's the premixed RU. 

How long will RU that's dissolved in pg / ethanol be stable outside the fridge (room temperature)? And how long will it be stable inside the fridge?

If it's really unstable outside the fridge in pg/ethanol solution, I'll have to find a way to be able to mix all the stuff abroad (which is not going to be easy I guess)...

----------


## Swooping

> So I've read a lot about RU already. I've got my RU lying in my freezer already and have the proper ingredients (pg / ethanol) to make my vehicle.
> 
> What % (dosage) should I start? 5%?
> 
> Also, I'm going to visit another country next month for a 1 week and will be away for a full month later in 2015. I'm not able to take all my stuff with me to mix it there, so I have to premix it. I've heard many people say that RU is stable for a long time nowadays on room temperature, but i assume that's the premixed RU. 
> 
> How long will RU that's dissolved in pg / ethanol be stable outside the fridge (room temperature)? And how long will it be stable inside the fridge?
> 
> If it's really unstable outside the fridge in pg/ethanol solution, I'll have to find a way to be able to mix all the stuff abroad (which is not going to be easy I guess)...


 1 week it will be definitely stable, don't worry about that.

----------


## deuce

Do you have to use ethanol in the vehicle or can you use something else?

----------


## Trouse5858

^ I'm wondering the same thing.  I've already purchased my RU from Kane and it's been in my freezer for approx. two weeks now.  Next step is just pulling the trigger on a vehicle to use.  I've read Hellouser's post on his regimen (thanks btw) and the concentrations that he's been using the problem is I live in Massachusetts so I can't get my hands on Everclear.  Does this eliminate pg/ ethanol as a potential vehicle?

Also, I've read a lot of people use Neogenic as a vehicle but I'm not exactly sure how that's mixed.  KB is something I've heard about also but I couldn't find any information on it all using google.  I'm sure these questions have been answered before in various places, but some of these threads are incredibly long and I don't really have the time to sift through all of the information.  Any info would be tremendously appreciated.

----------


## goldnt

Been using RU for more or less 11 Months. Started on January, Its great! Only thing bad about RU atleast for me, is that about at the 30 something day mark it goes bad. I believe its the constant opening and closing on the plastic to retrieve the ru. I guess it doesnt react too well to new air coming in. I know it doesnt work becuase my scalp will start to itch. So i make sure to have 2 at hand. I love RU but it seriously has to come down in price. For me its an extremely expensive expendeiture runnning at 2500+ a year.  
Im a nw7 thinner, so i almost wet my whole scalp. Question is anyone's ru go bad after a while of usage? And yes i store in the freezer

----------


## hellouser

> Been using RU for more or less 11 Months. Started on January, Its great! Only thing bad about RU atleast for me, is that about at the 30 something day mark it goes bad. I believe its the constant opening and closing on the plastic to retrieve the ru. I guess it doesnt react too well to new air coming in. I know it doesnt work becuase my scalp will start to itch. So i make sure to have 2 at hand. I love RU but it seriously has to come down in price. For me its an extremely expensive expendeiture runnning at 2500+ a year.  
> Im a nw7 thinner, so i almost wet my whole scalp. Question is anyone's ru go bad after a while of usage? And yes i store in the freezer


 Just make 10 day batches. Makes calculations easy too:

7ml of Ethanol/3ml of PG and however many hundred milligrams of RU.

----------


## Swooping

> Been using RU for more or less 11 Months. Started on January, Its great! Only thing bad about RU atleast for me, is that about at the 30 something day mark it goes bad. I believe its the constant opening and closing on the plastic to retrieve the ru. I guess it doesnt react too well to new air coming in. I know it doesnt work becuase my scalp will start to itch. So i make sure to have 2 at hand. I love RU but it seriously has to come down in price. For me its an extremely expensive expendeiture runnning at 2500+ a year.  
> Im a nw7 thinner, so i almost wet my whole scalp. Question is anyone's ru go bad after a while of usage? And yes i store in the freezer


 Do you keep your RU mixed solution in the bathroom? Don't. It needs to be in a dark cool place away from light to prevent degradation. How in the hell do you manage to spend so much on RU, how much mg per day do you use?

----------


## Pelopeleon

I would like to give a try to Ru mixed with minox, so I am looking for a good and cheap website to buy it. 

Do you know this web? Is it better than anagenic or kaneshop? I have found it right now: http://www.aarc-chems.com/ru58841-raw-powder

What do you think it is the best shop for me? I have no paypal account, just a mastercard.

----------


## lilpauly

> Do you keep your RU mixed solution in the bathroom? Don't. It needs to be in a dark cool place away from light to prevent degradation. How in the hell do you manage to spend so much on RU, how much mg per day do you use?


 it makes no difference

----------


## lilpauly

> ^ I'm wondering the same thing.  I've already purchased my RU from Kane and it's been in my freezer for approx. two weeks now.  Next step is just pulling the trigger on a vehicle to use.  I've read Hellouser's post on his regimen (thanks btw) and the concentrations that he's been using the problem is I live in Massachusetts so I can't get my hands on Everclear.  Does this eliminate pg/ ethanol as a potential vehicle?Also, I've read a lot of people use Neogenic as a vehicle but I'm not exactly sure how that's mixed.  KB is something I've heard about also but I couldn't find any information on it all using google.  I'm sure these questions have been answered before in various places, but some of these threads are incredibly long and I don't really have the time to sift through all of the information.  Any info would be tremendously appreciated.


 i will post where u can get ethanol for real cheap , its located in on germany ebay

----------


## Illusion

> 1 week it will be definitely stable, don't worry about that.


 Even when being out of the fridge? Thanks for answering man

----------


## lilpauly

> Even when being out of the fridge? Thanks for answering man


  Yes of course

----------


## Boldy

> i will post where u can get ethanol for real cheap , its located in on germany ebay


 for the people who are interested in ethanol, someone posted this on other forum: 

http://www.ebay.de/itm/1L-Primasprit...item4cfaf45386

it is 96.6% ethanol  for a very low price  :Smile:

----------


## lilpauly

There is also a german site that sells something very similar to kb sokution

----------


## lmg7

is there anybody who is using kb solution with good results ?

----------


## lilpauly

> is there anybody who is using kb solution with good results ?


 Kb was used in the patent . It's good alternative for people who can't tolerate pg .

----------


## lmg7

thanks...im thinking to give it a try

----------


## lilpauly

> thanks...im thinking to give it a try


  when I get home I will give u a link to purchase it cheap . Germans use it !!!

----------


## lmg7

Thanks again, I would really appreciate it

----------


## Illusion

> for the people who are interested in ethanol, someone posted this on other forum: 
> 
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/1L-Primasprit...item4cfaf45386
> 
> it is 96.6% ethanol  for a very low price


 That's cheap? That's the same price as in my local drug store... I've heard people buying it for like 8 euros a liter, but that's just anecdotal. Wouldn't know where they got it.

----------


## lilpauly

> That's cheap? That's the same price as in my local drug store... I've heard people buying it for like 8 euros a liter, but that's just anecdotal. Wouldn't know where they got it.


 Is it 97%

----------


## Illusion

> Is it 97%


 95%, so close enough

Edit: congrats on your 1000th post btw

----------


## goldnt

> Do you keep your RU mixed solution in the bathroom? Don't. It needs to be in a dark cool place away from light to prevent degradation. How in the hell do you manage to spend so much on RU, how much mg per day do you use?


 Haha well since it usually goes bad around 30 days, I tend to buy new ru every month.

To get my whole scalp i use 3ml of ethanol and 1.0 glycerin. And 19mg of ru. I know its a lot but any less ru and it wont work well and any less eth or gly wouldnt provide enough coverage for my nw7 thinning. Now, if i shave my head,im sure id probably cover it whole with 1ml but since i have long hair its a bit harder. 

I do daily batches. But i guess by the 20th mark ill do weekly batches? To avoid having the ru go bad?

----------


## goldnt

> Kb was used in the patent . It's good alternative for people who can't tolerate pg .


 Whats the german site? I use Glycerin, its not as good as pg but it works well. 

When i get on pg first 2 days my hair feels amazing then i get insane dandruff that my keto shampoo cant keep up with.

----------


## lilpauly

> Whats the german site? I use Glycerin, its not as good as pg but it works well. 
> 
> When i get on pg first 2 days my hair feels amazing then i get insane dandruff that my keto shampoo cant keep up with.


 http://www.versandapo.de/en/9234/946...aarloesung.htm

----------


## lmg7

lilpauly 
on another forum some guy is claiming tha he is using for a vehicle  50% ethanol, 25% glycerin and 25% water to decrease the sides.
could that be possible,using water for a batch?
he is also suggesting st john wort (supplement) for no sexual sides

----------


## lilpauly

> lilpauly 
> on another forum some guy is claiming tha he is using for a vehicle  50% ethanol, 25% glycerin and 25% water to decrease the sides.
> could that be possible,using water for a batch?
> he is also suggesting st john wort (supplement) for no sexual sides


  yes man it's possible . I would use st wort and im the german kb sokution , btw u might need to add a little ethanol to it . Glycerin is not great in my eyes .

----------


## Boldy

> That's cheap? That's the same as in my local drug store... I've heard people buying it for like 8 euros a liter, but that's just anecdotal. Wouldn't know where they got it.


 That is cheap compared with 65-75 euro they charge here. Drinkable non denatured ethanol is heavily taxed in my country.

----------


## lmg7

so what dossage would you suggest?and what do you mean with using st wort in kb solution,how is that possible?i was thinking taking st wort separately as a supplement

----------


## lilpauly

> so what dossage would you suggest?and what do you mean with using st wort in kb solution,how is that possible?i was thinking taking st wort separately as a supplement


  yes take it separate . I would start maybe at 2 % and move up to more then 5 % . Use the german kb first it can only disdolve 2 % if u add little erhanol it can dissolve 5,%

----------


## Swooping

> so what dossage would you suggest?and what do you mean with using st wort in kb solution,how is that possible?i was thinking taking st wort separately as a supplement


 You can start off with RU very slowly. In monkeys it has shown to be effective at already a 0.5% dosage. The clinical trials were done with 5% though. Just start of low and assess your sides.

----------


## Amercancer

Can I ask y RU isn't dissolving in bottle? I use minox and add ethanol hoping it will help dissolve it all, but still RU will be in bottom of bottle. What should I do?

----------


## diffuseloser

> Can I ask y RU isn't dissolving in bottle? I use minox and add ethanol hoping it will help dissolve it all, but still RU will be in bottom of bottle. What should I do?


 Fill the sink with hot water. Let the bottle sit in there a while and shake it occasionally. When I say hot, I don't mean boiling. If you are using a glass bottle, you don't want it to crack and end up flushing your RU down the drain, literally. 

In future, mix your RU in the ethanol before putting it into the minoxidil. Don't let it sit too long before doing this as you don't want it evaporating. Again, putting the container in hot water speeds the process immensely and if done right, there should be no visible RU particles. Nothing a little heat can't fix.

----------


## Amercancer

Thanks, I'm going to try that

----------


## Swooping

> Can I ask y RU isn't dissolving in bottle? I use minox and add ethanol hoping it will help dissolve it all, but still RU will be in bottom of bottle. What should I do?


 What minoxidil? Kirkland? I never had problems dissolving it up to 6-7% (even without adding ethanol) in it. That said you need HARD SHAKING. Not some wussy shaking, hard shaking several times. 
Also make sure your minoxidil or whatever vehicle you are using is on room temperature.

----------


## hellouser

> What minoxidil? Kirkland? I never had problems dissolving it up to 6-7% (even without adding ethanol) in it. That said you need HARD SHAKING. Not some wussy shaking, hard shaking several times. 
> Also make sure your minoxidil or whatever vehicle you are using is on room temperature.


 Just leave it for an hour and it will dissolve on its own.

----------


## Amercancer

Ok thanks. But far as the raw RU itself I always kept it in room temp. Is that ok?

----------


## Plan C

Tried using RU in 50% ethanol, 50% PG today and noticed two things:
1. The solution takes much longer to dry than KB solution or Neogenic
2. The solution tastes a little sweet

Anybody else experienced this?

----------


## hellouser

> Tried using RU in 50% ethanol, 50% PG today and noticed two things:
> 1. The solution takes much longer to dry than KB solution or Neogenic
> 2. The solution tastes a little sweet
> 
> Anybody else experienced this?


 1) The reason why its taking longer to dry is due to the higher concentration of PG.
2) Why are you tasting it?

----------


## diffuseloser

> Tried using RU in 50% ethanol, 50% PG today and noticed two things:
> 1. The solution takes much longer to dry than KB solution or Neogenic
> 2. The solution tastes a little sweet
> 
> Anybody else experienced this?


 The solution tastes a little sweet? Please tell me you didn't ingest it.

----------


## Plan C

> The solution tastes a little sweet? Please tell me you didn't ingest it.


 Tiny bit got on my finger and I licked it. Relax guys.

----------


## Swooping

> Ok thanks. But far as the raw RU itself I always kept it in room temp. Is that ok?


 Yes, thats not a problem. Freezing it will prolong shelf-life though. Just make sure it's in a dark cool place.

----------


## Plan C

> 1) The reason why its taking longer to dry is due to the higher concentration of PG.
> 2) Why are you tasting it?


 Should I use less PG?

----------


## hellouser

> Should I use less PG?


 Most guys use around 70%/30% mixture of Ethanol and PG, so yeah, you could use a little less... bear in mind more PG will also cause more itch and shedding.

----------


## Amercancer

I just received my raw RU, should it be in freezer?

----------


## Amercancer

Ok I got it, just confused from other users.

----------


## Plan C

My RU arrived today from Anagen and the first thing I noticed is that it doesn't smell of anything, whereas the RU I bought 7 months ago from them smells strongly of chemicals. Hope they're not reducing the potency of it.

----------


## lilpauly

Some batches smell some don't

----------


## lilpauly

the solvent causes the smell.

----------


## Swooping

Indeed smell can differ due to other solvents used in the synthesis process, says nothing about purity. That said kane has been tested several times and is legit as hell don't worry.

----------


## inbrugge

Thanks for the confirmation guys. 

I just ordered a batch from Kane as well. I'm planning to switch from Topical Fin to Ru. I had initially tried Ru at a low dose (20 mg) and quit because I freaked out from the sides. But I'm getting the same sides on Topical Fin, which I'm now tolerating through, so I might as well tolerate through the sides on Ru.

What do you guys say about that? Good or Bad idea to switch from topical fin to Ru? Or keep using both? Should I ease of topical fin or cut cold turkey?

----------


## lilpauly

> Thanks for the confirmation guys. 
> 
> I just ordered a batch from Kane as well. I'm planning to switch from Topical Fin to Ru. I had initially tried Ru at a low dose (20 mg) and quit because I freaked out from the sides. But I'm getting the same sides on Topical Fin, which I'm now tolerating through, so I might as well tolerate through the sides on Ru.
> 
> What do you guys say about that? Good or Bad idea to switch from topical fin to Ru? Or keep using both? Should I ease of topical fin or cut cold turkey?


  well gyno is serious side effect

----------


## inbrugge

> well gyno is serious side effect


 well I wasn't on Ru long enough to see if Ru also gives it to me. Ru gave me problems downstairs and I quit immidieately instead of seeing how it would fold out.

For topical fin, I've been on it 5-6 weeks and downstairs is better than Ru but it does make my breast more puffy. I think my body is also very susceptible to it. However, when I lay off topical fin for 3-4 days it gets better so I know it's not permanent.

----------


## lilpauly

> well I wasn't on Ru long enough to see if Ru also gives it to me. Ru gave me problems downstairs and I quit immidieately instead of seeing how it would fold out.
> 
> For topical fin, I've been on it 5-6 weeks and downstairs is better than Ru but it does make my breast more puffy. I think my body is also very susceptible to it. However, when I lay off topical fin for 3-4 days it gets better so I know it's not permanent.


  for some people sides go away after a week or sometimes sides can develope as u get older . Many times Peopke tolerate fin for years then get sides . I have gyno presently from steroids and its really starting to hurt

----------


## Swooping

> Thanks for the confirmation guys. 
> 
> I just ordered a batch from Kane as well. I'm planning to switch from Topical Fin to Ru. I had initially tried Ru at a low dose (20 mg) and quit because I freaked out from the sides. But I'm getting the same sides on Topical Fin, which I'm now tolerating through, so I might as well tolerate through the sides on Ru.
> 
> What do you guys say about that? Good or Bad idea to switch from topical fin to Ru? Or keep using both? Should I ease of topical fin or cut cold turkey?


 I would just trial & error if I were you and assess which one works better and which one brings more sides to the table. Then decide for yourself which one is more worth it. That is what I would do.

----------


## inbrugge

> I would just trial & error if I were you and assess which one works better and which one brings more sides to the table. Then decide for yourself which one is more worth it. That is what I would do.


 I think I like the science behind Ru better than Fin. I think Ru is designed to bind to receptors where fin is designed to stop all conversion of 5-a? Thus, fin is designed to be systematic for it to be effective where Ru is designed to be localized. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So I have 2 questions:

1. Any thing I should consider if I want to make a compound mix of Minoxidil, Ru, Tretinoin, and etc.

2. What's the best vehicle? Eth+PG, KB, or Neogenic?

----------


## diffuseloser

Hard to tell. It's all trial and error and what works for some may not necessarily work for others. All you can do is take your time with the prep, whatever vehicle you use. I've just about run out of RU but will be buying another 10g and continue using with Kirkland as it certainly hasn't hurt none. I use minoxidil anyway so it's convenient for me and I've been maintaining quite well. Good luck whatever you decide.

----------


## Swooping

> I think I like the science behind Ru better than Fin. I think Ru is designed to bind to receptors where fin is designed to stop all conversion of 5-a? Thus, fin is designed to be systematic for it to be effective where Ru is designed to be localized. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> So I have 2 questions:
> 
> 1. Any thing I should consider if I want to make a compound mix of Minoxidil, Ru, Tretinoin, and etc.
> 
> 2. What's the best vehicle? Eth+PG, KB, or Neogenic?


 Yes well it binds to the androgen receptors so it will prevent androgens from binding, including DHT. It doesn't mess with 5ar2. But you are correct where RU is designed to act locally, finasteride acts systematically. I think vehicles are indeed as said more of a trial & error what works best for you.

----------


## Boldy

> Yes well it binds to the androgen receptors so it will prevent androgens from binding, including DHT. It doesn't mess with 5ar2. But you are correct where RU is designed to act locally, finasteride acts systematically. I think vehicles are indeed as said more of a trial & error what works best for you.


 swoop did you find any data that indicate the binding Time on the AR? I have not this far.

we know that it is about 1 hour in serum, and this can probably be reduced maybe to half with st johns  or other p-glycoproteine abc transporters inducers.

----------


## Swooping

> swoop did you find any data that indicate the binding Time on the AR? I have not this far.
> 
> we know that it is about 1 hour in serum, and this can probably be reduced maybe to half with st johns  or other p-glycoproteine abc transporters inducers.


 No I never discovered how long RU58841 stays bound to the androgen receptor. But I suppose it would be close to 24 hours. I tried 2 time applications a day and didn't notice a difference.

----------


## ALM

Hellouser,

Thanks for all the details regarding your RU mixture!  Would you be so kind and provide us with your CB mixture details.

----------


## Boldy

> No I never discovered how long RU58841 stays bound to the androgen receptor. But I suppose it would be close to 24 hours. I tried 2 time applications a day and didn't notice a difference.


 that could be a realistic thought looking to the itching that keeps away for at-least 1 day after an application.

----------


## Swooping

> that could be a realistic thought looking to the itching that keeps away for at-least 1 day after an application.


 Yes btw I miss applications sometimes especially in the weekend and don't notice a decline whenever that happens. So more than 1x a day would definitely be overkill.

----------


## robodoc

Yea binds for an hour but what else is affected physiologically?  I say nothing good.  Ask our fearless writer, Hellouser if it still works for him?  I have asked but not heard from him.  There are side effects to RU.

----------


## robodoc

Go to Walmart, a drug store and buy Isopropyl Alcohol 91% and agitate your Ru in about 7-10 ml of it.  It will dissolve in about 2 miutes then you can dilute with Minoxidil solution 5% to the concentration you are after.

----------


## Swooping

> Yea binds for an hour but what else is affected physiologically?  I say nothing good.  Ask our fearless writer, Hellouser if it still works for him?  I have asked but not heard from him.  There are side effects to RU.


 There can definitely be sides to RU too, however it definitely seems less than finasteride (anecdotal)

----------


## flappytom

Great topic  :Smile: 

I have a queation. Howmany times a week is this used?

----------


## Illusion

> Great topic 
> 
> I have a queation. Howmany times a week is this used?


 Almost everybody that uses RU, uses 1 application each day.

Maybe there are a few people that use it twice a day or once in a few days, but you would need a very good reason to do so.

----------


## Illusion

Guys, I need some help with mixing RU... everytime I way my RU on my scale, a lot of it just sticks to the platform I put it on... It also sticks to my measuring spoon. This way a lot of RU just gets wasted because it gets left behind. It's pretty hard to get all the RU that is stuck behind in my small bottle.

I've tried using tin foil, but it sticks as **** to tin foil too. Trying to put the RU directly from the bag into the apply bottle is not a very accurate way as a lot of RU will fall besides the opening of the bottle.

Any ideas on this? Do you guys experience the same problem? I don't think it's a purity problem either as it dissolves just fine in my ethanol/ pg solution.

Any thoughts on this?

----------


## flappytom

> Almost everybody that uses RU, uses 1 application each day.
> 
> Maybe there are a few people that use it twice a day or once in a few days, but you would need a very good reason to do so.


 Thanks  :Smile:

----------


## Plan C

I've been using RU in a 75% ethanol, 25% PG mix recently and after about 30 mins the area to which I apply the solution begins to visibly crack and flake. Is my scalp likely to adjust in the long-run or should I try a different vehicle?

----------


## inbrugge

I recommend a new vehicle , bro, as I was using Minoxidil Liquid which has basically the same composition and it was making my scalp very itchy and flakey and it didn't reslly get any better so I switched back to Foam. You could try Neogenic or KB possibly.

Also, my gyno from topical fin seems to get better after 2 days of aromase inhibitor (DIM). I will use it for a couple more days, then get off it to see if it will come back.

----------


## Justinian

> I recommend a new vehicle , bro, as I was using Minoxidil Liquid which has basically the same composition and it was making my scalp very itchy and flakey and it didn't reslly get any better so I switched back to Foam. You could try Neogenic or KB possibly.
> 
> Also, my gyno from topical fin seems to get better after 2 days of aromase inhibitor (DIM). I will use it for a couple more days, then get off it to see if it will come back.


 What topical fin are you using?

----------


## inbrugge

> What topical fin are you using?


 I was using the one from Dr. Susan. You can read about it in Jazz1's thread 'Dr Klein promox patients! Read if you need help.' But I don't think my sides are due to the source. My body is very sensitive to any anti-androgens including Saw Palmetto from my shampoo.

----------


## goldnt

> I recommend a new vehicle , bro, as I was using Minoxidil Liquid which has basically the same composition and it was making my scalp very itchy and flakey and it didn't reslly get any better so I switched back to Foam. You could try Neogenic or KB possibly.
> 
> Also, my gyno from topical fin seems to get better after 2 days of aromase inhibitor (DIM). I will use it for a couple more days, then get off it to see if it will come back.


 Hey man whats DIM? I used tamoxifen,unsurprisingly one of the main side effects from it is hairloss. I didn't lose much hair that day or the day after because i think Susans product took most of the hit but my scalped itched so bad. It wad unbearable for me. I have gyno but its still very small but i think its better i act now that wait till it gets bigger.

----------


## inbrugge

DIM is the main ingredient in over the counter estrogen blocker pills. I think it's the extract from vegetables (like broccoli, cauliflower) that are supposed to help flush estrogen out the system. I don't know much about its dosage and safety. A week later, I don't know bout its efficiency in reducing gyno either. I guess it really depends on how much your gyno has progressed. I am currently just going off anything that messes with hormones completely, including my saw palmetto shampoo.

----------


## Trouse5858

I'm in the same boat with regards to gyno.  It's probably not visible to anyone else but I'm aware of it because it's only in one nipple and it's not severe yet at all.  Anyone have any luck just reducing the dosage..? I'd really prefer not to stop using RU before it has a chance to be successful but man boobs are worse than thinning hair I guess.

----------


## Swooping

Andactrim supposedly works very good against gyno, but it's DHT gel so that sucks.

----------


## goldnt

Yeah that's the best topical I found for combating gyno but it tends to go systematic so that's a hell no.

----------


## Illusion

> Andactrim supposedly works very good against gyno, but it's DHT gel so that sucks.


 Even gyno that has already developped a bit and has been there for a few years? I don't know a lot about gyno but a lot of people say that when it is there for too long, it becomes permanent and surgery is the only solution left.

----------


## Illusion

I want to start minoxidil, but I'm not sure how to use it in combination with RU... I don't want to add my RU to my minoxidil because I make batches for 5-7 days and I have my doubts regarding minoxidil being a good vehicle for such a long time. Hence, I want to use Minoxidil _besides_ using RU (vehicle = ethanol/pg).

How do I do this? Should I do minox first and then RU? Or the other way around? And do I have to wait untill the first one (the one that is better to apply first) has dried up? If so, that could take a while.

Another possibillity is to apply minox in the morning and RU in the evening but I believe minox has to be applied two times a day so I'm not sure if that would be sufficient enough.

----------


## diffuseloser

> I want to start minoxidil, but I'm not sure how to use it in combination with RU... I don't want to add my RU to my minoxidil because I make batches for 5-7 days and I have my doubts regarding minoxidil being a good vehicle for such a long time. Hence, I want to use Minoxidil _besides_ using RU (vehicle = ethanol/pg).
> 
> How do I do this? Should I do minox first and then RU? Or the other way around? And do I have to wait untill the first one (the one that is better to apply first) has dried up? If so, that could take a while.
> 
> Another possibillity is to apply minox in the morning and RU in the evening but I believe minox has to be applied two times a day so I'm not sure if that would be sufficient enough.


 I've been using RU in minox with no issues. I make up 3 month batches then freeze them. It doesn't appear to lose efficacy for me. 

If you want to avoid using minox as a vehicle, I would definitely do the RU first then apply minox later. You should be alright using minoxidil once per day. It's not ideal but neither is using it twice a day. It's the RU that's gonna give you the regrowth so make that your priority. I don't believe using minox twice a day makes much of a difference anyway. It's gonna lose efficacy after a while however much you apply it. Go with RU in the morning and minox at night if that is most convenient for you.

----------


## Illusion

> I've been using RU in minox with no issues. I make up 3 month batches then freeze them. It doesn't appear to lose efficacy for me. 
> 
> If you want to avoid using minox as a vehicle, I would definitely do the RU first then apply minox later. You should be alright using minoxidil once per day. It's not ideal but neither is using it twice a day. It's the RU that's gonna give you the regrowth so make that your priority. I don't believe using minox twice a day makes much of a difference anyway. It's gonna lose efficacy after a while however much you apply it. Go with RU in the morning and minox at night if that is most convenient for you.


 Interesting... If you say that RU + minox, mixed in the freezer for a long time, doesn't seem to lose efficacy, I'd probably go for that. By the way, on what do you base that it doesn't loses its efficacy? Anyone else who has experience with the stabillity of RU + minox?

And yeah, RU definitely has priority over minox so it indeed would be best to apply it before minox. But if mixing RU and minox wouldn't be a problem, that would be great. 

PS: minox% doesn't matter if you're going to mix it right?

----------


## diffuseloser

I have no evidence or nothing besides my own experience to back that up with. The RU I get from Kane is apparently stable for up to a year in powder form. Where do you get your RU from? I'm just going by what works for me. I don't see any reason why mixing it in minoxidil would affect it's stability, but would also like to hear some other opinions. I freeze it just to be sure. I have 2x 60ml bottles in the freezer at the minute and one 60ml bottle I'm currently using stays in the fridge until I apply it in the evening, then straight back into the fridge again. Don't take my word for it. It works for me and I've had results with this method but I would be interested to see what others have to say. 

In the meantime, you could mix up a small batch of minox with a little RU powder to get you going for a week say.

----------


## Illusion

> I have no evidence or nothing besides my own experience to back that up with. The RU I get from Kane is apparently stable for up to a year in powder form. Where do you get your RU from? I'm just going by what works for me. I don't see any reason why mixing it in minoxidil would affect it's stability, but would also like to hear some other opinions. I freeze it just to be sure. I have 2x 60ml bottles in the freezer at the minute and one 60ml bottle I'm currently using stays in the fridge until I apply it in the evening, then straight back into the fridge again. Don't take my word for it. It works for me and I've had results with this method but I would be interested to see what others have to say. 
> 
> In the meantime, you could mix up a small batch of minox with a little RU powder to get you going for a week say.


 
I also get my RU from Kane. I haven't been using it for that long (about a month) but I base it's efficacy on how bad my itch is (which is not very reliable but better than basing it on sheds as those form a standard part of normal hair cycles). I also don't know why RU wouldn't be stable in minoxidil but that's just the problem with experimental treatments: we don't know a lot of things. But for example, I've heard that RU is less stable in water than it is in ethanol/pg. I don't know if this is true, but if it is, then that means that certain substances are better vehicles for RU than others (which is quite logically ofcourse). That's why I'm always a bit hesitant with putting RU for a prolonged period of time in vehicles that aren't ethanol/pg (actually, even with ethanol/pg I don't like the idea of making batches for longer than 1 week.


I do it like this: I store my RU powder in the freezer, and make batches once per week in ethanol/pg (70:30 ratio). I put my weekly batch in one vial. This vial I also store in the freezer. I don't know if this is good or bad, because it means that everytime that I use my RU, it's ice cold (aka straight from the freezer). I take this vial out of the freezer in the evening to apply, and then put it back into the freezer, although I sometimes forget to do that and it is out of the freezer for the night (but I don't think this is a big problem). Like I said, I'm only using RU for about one month now, so I can't really tell you if the RU is doing something for me or not. I have to say though, the past few weeks I have shed a lot less (as to 2 hairs falling out while styling it vs 20 when I wasn't on RU) and my itch is almost completely gone, but that's not enough to convince me that it's working. I want to see at least a long time of maintenance before I can tell anyone it's working great.

You say you store the bottle you're currently using in the fridge instead of the freezer, what's the advantage to that?

----------


## xLeox

I have a question: I'm currently using ru 5% and minox separated. since my schedule is really tight, it's kind hard for me to apply ru in the morning and minox at night after work. I'm wondering: how much time should pass between the 2 applications in order to keep them as effective as possible? would it be ok to apply ru and then minox after a short lapse of time, like 30 mins or an hour, or should I wait longer, like 2 hours or more? sure you guys can help me with this. thanks.

----------


## diffuseloser

> I have a question: I'm currently using ru 5% and minox separated. since my schedule is really tight, it's kind hard for me to apply ru in the morning and minox at night after work. I'm wondering: how much time should pass between the 2 applications in order to keep them as effective as possible? would it be ok to apply ru and then minox after a short lapse of time, like 30 mins or an hour, or should I wait longer, like 2 hours or more? sure you guys can help me with this. thanks.


 Half hour should be alright. I'd wait as long as possible and make sure the first treatment has dried in sufficiently.

----------


## hellouser

> I have a question: I'm currently using ru 5% and minox separated. since my schedule is really tight, it's kind hard for me to apply ru in the morning and minox at night after work. I'm wondering: how much time should pass between the 2 applications in order to keep them as effective as possible? would it be ok to apply ru and then minox after a short lapse of time, like 30 mins or an hour, or should I wait longer, like 2 hours or more? sure you guys can help me with this. thanks.


 30-60 minutes is fine. It's what I did.

----------


## Illusion

Diffuseloser, do you rub the minox in your scalp? I used to do just that with RU in ethanol/pg but was wondering if it would matter if you'd do the same with minox and RU (as I read that people don't rub minox in their hair but just drop & leave it there). It probably doesn't matter that much but I'd like to know anyway.

Also, would it really matter what minox I'd be using if I'm going to dissolve RU into it? I'm going for a 5% solution, that's for sure, but I'm not certain of the brand yet as there are slight differences in things like vehicle.


(I might be overthinking this)

----------


## diffuseloser

> Diffuseloser, do you rub the minox in your scalp? I used to do just that with RU in ethanol/pg but was wondering if it would matter if you'd do the same with minox and RU (as I read that people don't rub minox in their hair but just drop & leave it there). It probably doesn't matter that much but I'd like to know anyway.
> 
> Also, would it really matter what minox I'd be using if I'm going to dissolve RU into it? I'm going for a 5% solution, that's for sure, but I'm not certain of the brand yet as there are slight differences in things like vehicle.
> 
> 
> (I might be overthinking this)


 Hey Illusion. I always try to massage the minoxidil into my scalp, especially if there's RU in there. You definitely don't want to waste it. If you just drip it onto your scalp, you're missing spots and the shit will run down onto other areas of your scalp and your face. I find that rubbing it in a little with the tips of my fingers combats this and helps with penetration. 

As for minoxidil, I just use cheap and cheerful Kirkland 5%. I've heard a good few others using this as well with success, although I don't think it matters. Try to look for one with a lower water content.

----------


## xLeox

thanks for the answer guys. being able to put minox on after an hour makes things easier for me




> 30-60 minutes is fine. It's what I did.


 you switched to combining ru + minox or you just don't use ru anymore?




> As for minoxidil, I just use cheap and cheerful Kirkland 5%. I've heard a good few others using this as well with success, although I don't think it matters. Try to look for one with a lower water content.


 when talking about Ru and Minox combined, do you think one should stick to 10 ml batch or it's possible to make relatively bigger batches (like 30 ml, so that I wouldn't need to prepare it every week) and  still keep 100% ru effectiveness? and how much ethanol should I add for such a quantity (30 ml)?  what other minox could be good, besides kirkland, for such purpose? 

thanks once again for your feedback, much appreciated. it's hard to get ru talk here in italy.

----------


## diffuseloser

You're welcome. I would probably advise you to stick with smaller batches although I do make up large batches(3x 60ml bottles) and freeze them. 

I use as little alcohol as possible. I put the powder into a glass jug then just dump in a few capfuls of alcohol, then almost immediately in with the minoxidil.

----------


## xLeox

I see. I'm planning to make bigger mixed batches as you eventually. as for a couple months, I'll stick to 10 ml ru batches only. I've been using it for a month now and I think it caused me a little shedding, so I don't wanna risk to aggravate it switching to a different minox (currently using one with progesterone added, done by a pharmacy) that I'm using now. plus, I'm kinda paranoid about the exact quantity of ethanol to add to the solution.

----------


## Illusion

> Hey Illusion. I always try to massage the minoxidil into my scalp, especially if there's RU in there. You definitely don't want to waste it. If you just drip it onto your scalp, you're missing spots and the shit will run down onto other areas of your scalp and your face. I find that rubbing it in a little with the tips of my fingers combats this and helps with penetration. 
> 
> As for minoxidil, I just use cheap and cheerful Kirkland 5%. I've heard a good few others using this as well with success, although I don't think it matters. Try to look for one with a lower water content.


 Cheers mate, just ordered me some Kirkland 5%, I'll see how things go. 




> I use as little alcohol as possible. I put the powder into a glass jug then just dump in a few capfuls of alcohol, then almost immediately in with the minoxidil.


 You still add ethanol to the RU? I thought I could just dump the powder in a vial and then add minox to it, shake it and done. Are you adding ethanol for solubility?

----------


## diffuseloser

I use Isopropyl 99.9%. RU will dissolve in stock minoxidil without it but may take a little longer. There is alcohol present in Kirkland 5% but a few capfuls of Isopropyl helps it along for me. If I ever make another batch I'll try it without. I think the most important aspect is to use a little heat to help it dissolve. Hot water from the sink is sufficient.

----------


## Illusion

Got it. Will experiment a bit with it to see what works best. With heat you mean that you put your closed minox+RU bottle in a hot bath of water to make it dissolve faster? Or do you actually add the hot water to it? I'm not very keen on mixing with water as it's not great for dissolving (I heard), but if you say so... Again, will mess around with this a bit  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## atob

have started a separate thread, but hard to geyt traction as a new poster  :Smile: 

looking to make my own minox and ru topicals.

what would be best non pg vehicle? glycerine, iso propyl? others? what %/ ratio?

can I use same vehicle for minox? will be 2 separate preparations. do you need to use a cream base if higher than 5% minox?

finally any ideas for whare to buy minox raw powder in europe? tried china, but most suppliers wont do small amounts..or very expesnive. 

I have read through loads of threads, but still none the wiser 

thanks!

----------


## diffuseloser

> Got it. Will experiment a bit with it to see what works best. With heat you mean that you put your closed minox+RU bottle in a hot bath of water to make it dissolve faster? Or do you actually add the hot water to it? I'm not very keen on mixing with water as it's not great for dissolving (I heard), but if you say so... Again, will mess around with this a bit


 No, definitely don't add any water! What I mean is, bathe the container with the solution in hot water. I use a glass measuring jug for this and when it has dissolved completely, I fill up the empty Kirkland bottles with the minox/RU solution.

atob, you can find all the information you need about making RU at the start of this thread. Not sure about making your own minox.

----------


## atob

hi

yes have read through and seems like glycerine /ethanol is an option if no pg, but hard to see a concensus?

what would be right ratio.. 70/30, gyl/eth?

----------


## Hairismylife

Why nobody considers KB solution? I think it's good.

----------


## whatsgoingon

I have a two questions/talking points for this.
1) why does no one use RUM anymore? I think I read it's difficult to find a good distributor, but having a cream application method would be ideal. I'd hate to get RU in my eyes
2) why do companies develop this then drop this randomly? it's been picked up several times from what I've read, but it's always dropped. Is it because they realize it isn't sell-able as a hairloss drug as it topically degrades too quickly to sell and would need to be refrigerated in order to mass distribute? Or could it be that orally the sides are as bad as other similar spec'ed drugs and that coupled with the degradation makes it difficult to make profitable. 

Just a bit curious on peoples takes on those questions.

----------


## Plan C

Is ethanol/pg still considered the best vehicle for RU? Currently alternating days of ethanol/pg and neogenic but considering dropping neo altogether.

----------


## atob

from all ive read, eth/pg is the most used vehicle. from those who use neo - there didn't seem to be any specific advantage other than its ready made?

glycerine or aloe +eth to avoid scalp irritation, k and b seems to leave a film, and residue.

----------


## Illusion

First few weeks of RU usage were pure heaven for me (close to zero shedding, no MPB itch) but things have changed... I'm back to my old shedding but more important, that goddamned itch is back. I even upped my dosage but it doesn't seem to matter. It's not the RU, as I do get the sides with the higher dosage. Does anybody know what's going on? Are my AR's just completely ****ed?

----------


## Haircure

I recently bought the powder from anageninc and was wondering where do I buy the solution ingredients in canada? I couldn't find everclear and not sure where to look for propylene glycol. The solution requires ethanol, so couldn't I buy the rubbing alcohol which is 95% ethanol?

----------


## Swooping

> I recently bought the powder from anageninc and was wondering where do I buy the solution ingredients in canada? I couldn't find everclear and not sure where to look for propylene glycol. The solution requires ethanol, so couldn't I buy the rubbing alcohol which is 95% ethanol?


 Look out that the alcohol isn't denatured with something toxic. You can use a lower % alcohol too, as long as it will dissolve.

----------


## doke

Guys has anyone ordered from anagen ru powder recently as I ordered some on Thursday 22nd jan 15 and they just say on there site processing when I ordered in the past my order was sent straight away.
I wonder if they are still trading I know its part of kanes company but the service seems to have gone down.

----------


## Plan C

> Look out that the alcohol isn't denatured with something toxic. You can use a lower % alcohol too, as long as it will dissolve.


 Is this stuff alright

https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-15105.aspx

----------


## doke

Hi plan I notice that whisky exchange no longer sells balken 176 which is strong but if you search for it on google you will find it 70cl bottle a delux grain vodka its pricey about £44 a bottle but using with ru it lasts ages.
I notice that the whisky exchange is £31 for only 500mls so the 176 which is 88% slightly lower alcohol still worked for my ru I mixed.

----------


## Plan C

> Hi plan I notice that whisky exchange no longer sells balken 176 which is strong but if you search for it on google you will find it 70cl bottle a delux grain vodka its pricey about £44 a bottle but using with ru it lasts ages.


 Balkan 176 is only 88%. Spirytus is 95% and cheaper?

----------


## doke

yes but its a bigger bottle 70cl but anyway the one you mention is fine but remember you can also use pure medical grade ethyl alcohol which I think you can buy on ebay and maybe cheaper.
But I would go with the whisky exchange it is as you say stronger I may buy that as im nearly out of the balken.

----------


## doke

Hi plan you can get the spirytus 95% on ebay uk its only 100mls but only £8 a bottle I forgot I have one already.

----------


## doke

Hi plan I forgot I got a 100ml bottle of spirytus 95% on ebay uk its still for sale and only £8 I found it when looking for pure ethyl alcohol on ebay.

----------


## Illusion

Ehm spirytus isn't for internal usage? It contains methanol, which is poisonous...

----------


## doke

> Ehm spirytus isn't for internal usage? It contains methanol, which is poisonous...


 We are using for topical use not drinking the dame stuff hahaha

----------


## Illusion

> We are using for topical use not drinking the dame stuff hahaha


 Yeah but it can go systematic? I doubt an amount of methanol that small wil do much harm, but still...

----------


## Shinobi

Has anyone seen this blog : www.ru58841.net 

very interesting

----------


## Swooping

> Has anyone seen this blog : www.ru58841.net 
> 
> very interesting


 Awesome that the guy on the blog had improvement with RU after 12 years of fin usage.

----------


## doke

You can add ru to minoxidil best it is regaine or us rogaine lotion as the guy on you tube hairlossfrom steroids does I think he is adding 3grams to 30mls of minox but for a 5% per ml you can try 3 grams to 60mls of lotion.

----------


## atob

> Ehm spirytus isn't for internal usage? It contains methanol, which is poisonous...


 poloms' spiytus 95% on whisky exchange it says its supposed to be used as the base for liquers and it should be diluted.. but therefore means it is for internal use?

----------


## atob

hellouser, reading through posts, you stopped ru but then restarted? did you stop for any reason? sides? have you restarted again? any difference to approach/ amount of ru used?

thanks

----------


## NeverSleep

> I also get my RU from Kane. I haven't been using it for that long (about a month) but I base it's efficacy on how bad my itch is (which is not very reliable but better than basing it on sheds as those form a standard part of normal hair cycles). I also don't know why RU wouldn't be stable in minoxidil but that's just the problem with experimental treatments: we don't know a lot of things. But for example, I've heard that RU is less stable in water than it is in ethanol/pg. I don't know if this is true, but if it is, then that means that certain substances are better vehicles for RU than others (which is quite logically ofcourse). That's why I'm always a bit hesitant with putting RU for a prolonged period of time in vehicles that aren't ethanol/pg (actually, even with ethanol/pg I don't like the idea of making batches for longer than 1 week.
> 
> 
> I do it like this: I store my RU powder in the freezer, and make batches once per week in ethanol/pg (70:30 ratio). I put my weekly batch in one vial. This vial I also store in the freezer. I don't know if this is good or bad, because it means that everytime that I use my RU, it's ice cold (aka straight from the freezer). I take this vial out of the freezer in the evening to apply, and then put it back into the freezer, although I sometimes forget to do that and it is out of the freezer for the night (but I don't think this is a big problem). Like I said, I'm only using RU for about one month now, so I can't really tell you if the RU is doing something for me or not. I have to say though, the past few weeks I have shed a lot less (as to 2 hairs falling out while styling it vs 20 when I wasn't on RU) and my itch is almost completely gone, but that's not enough to convince me that it's working. I want to see at least a long time of maintenance before I can tell anyone it's working great.
> 
> You say you store the bottle you're currently using in the fridge instead of the freezer, what's the advantage to that?


 Hey Illusion,

I started applying RU 4 days ago, and the first thing I noticed was the itch that you speak of. Is that a sign that it is working? My scalp has been itching me from the very first application, and I wasnt sure if it was the RU causing it.

----------


## 25 going on 65

hellouser....do you pretty much stand by all of your advice in post 1 of this thread? Have you come up w/ any improvements, warnings, etc?

I know I could just read all 50 pages of this thread but do not want to. Thanks for all the work you put into the guide

----------


## burtandernie

If you bought the 50 ML from anagenic of RU and that vehicle thing they sell how long would that last you roughly? Do you just use it once per day? Why cant they just sell the stuff premixed I dont know what the hell im doing

----------


## mikes23

@burtandernie if you go on good looking loser website chris breaks down how to mix ru in minoxidil. He also breaks down how to make different percentages. And anagenic sells it pre made, I heard it's pretty good but it's more expensive in the long run.

----------


## doke

Hi mikes that's what I have said minox as per hairloss loser on youtube vid as well says mix minox with ru he chooses to make 30mls of minox with 3grams of ru, but to make a 5% ru you can add 3grams to 60mls minox I think it was he who said use regaine or rogaine for the mix as some of the generics do not work as well.

----------


## Illusion

> Hey Illusion,
> 
> I started applying RU 4 days ago, and the first thing I noticed was the itch that you speak of. Is that a sign that it is working? My scalp has been itching me from the very first application, and I wasnt sure if it was the RU causing it.


 Well, if you suddenly started noticing an itch on your scalp at the same itme you started RU, it might very well be the vehicle that gives you that itch. For example, some people have an allergic reaction to propylene glycol and thus get an incredible itch from applying that to their scalp. However, this is just an allergic reaction and has nothing to do with the baldness process.

I'm not saying the above is the case, but it might be worth considering. If it persists for a long time and if you're sure it's not related to baldness (like you're on RU for a good while and have some maintenance and slight thickening, which probably means that your balding is stabilised for now) then you could consider to switch to a different vehicle if the itch is really annoying to you. A good alternative would be to use KB as a vehicle. I can't really tell you much more about KB though as I don't use it myself...

----------


## burtandernie

Is anagenic a legit site to buy it like the premade solution? It would be nifty if someone knew the guys that researched this drug and could ask them what they thought about long term safety, if it went systemic, and stuff like that. I dont know how I feel using a completely untested chemical although propecia we know goes systemic too. The guys that worked on RU would have good guesses about its use for MPB or why it never got finished. I would believe them verses people guessing.

----------


## mikes23

@doke he said generic is fine and if it doesn't dissolve throw it in the freezer, it will dissolve then. You could also add some ethanol,  reason being minoxidil solutions have a lot of water in them. 

@burtandernie  Anagenic is legit, that's where most get there RU from. Ru goes systematic but it turns into a weaker chemical but if you use to much you may notice sides. Ru has some studies on it. Of course propecia goes systematic you take it as a pill and for propecia  to work  it needs to lower your DHT. And you will probably never find out why it did not get finished, it would be interesting to know though. But in the hairloss world alot of things that have potential are put to the side or dismissed, Aderans for example.  There's enough people using RU to know it works  but with any treatment it might not work for everyone.  You got to make that decision if it's worth to use or not.

----------


## Jazz1

I vouch for Anagen always great service from Kane, I always keep RU58841 as back up.

----------


## Illusion

I've been using RU for about 1,5 months now but I don't have the feeling it has been doing a lot... I know I should give medication more time but thing is that my hair line has got a lot of new miniaturized hairs and unfortunately, these aren't new hairs sprouting out but old hairs dying (I have pictures for comparison).

I used to make weekly batches of RU mixed with ethanol and propylene glycol, which I stored in the freezer. Sometimes I forgot to put the bottle of premixed RU back in the freezer again so it would be a night out of the freezer, though in a dark bottle (no light could reach it) and with room temperature. After this night I would put it back in the freezer again. 

Regarding mixing, I used to get my whole back of RU (10g) out of the freezer to mix my weekly batch. It would be out of the fridge for half an hour or so and it would be exposed to lamplight (never to sunlight though) with the temperature being just standard room temperature.

I apply RU once a day right before going to bed. I don't always wash my hair right before using it and sometimes there are a couple of hours between getting my RU out of the freezer and actually applying it.

Do you guys see anything in the above which could have decreased efficacy of the RU? My dosage varied during the time of using, but it varied between 25mg/2,5 ml and 70 mg/2,5ml. Would this be too low to notice an effect? I doubt it, as I did notice some systematic effects from the RU... Could it be that my hair just not responds to RU? Also, I'll now be starting to apply 70mg RU / 2ml kirkland 5% minoxidil, where I'll be making 3-day batches which I will store in the freezer. Any tips as to increase efficacy or improve something in the whole storage/mixing/applying process? Note that I have the MPB-itch pretty often still...

Again, I didn't expect to see an improvement after 1,5 months but I certainly didn't expect to see my hair line miniaturize more than it did before...

----------


## burtandernie

Why do people think this doesnt go systemic though? This study on stumptailed macaques found no systemic sides but they said it could induce them. Its hard to believe something so potent does not go systemic at all although it seems to work really well at stopping androgens

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9798729

The potency of RU58841 was comparable to that of hydroxyflutamide. From this result, topical application of RU58841, which is considered to be a potential therapy for skin diseases, may induce systemic side effects. However, RU58841, on topical application, revealed a potent increase in density, thickening, and length of hair in the macaque model of androgenetic alopecia, whereas no systemic effects were detected.

----------


## Swooping

> Why do people think this doesnt go systemic though? This study on stumptailed macaques found no systemic sides but they said it could induce them. Its hard to believe something so potent does not go systemic at all although it seems to work really well at stopping androgens
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9798729
> 
> The potency of RU58841 was comparable to that of hydroxyflutamide. From this result, topical application of RU58841, which is considered to be a potential therapy for skin diseases, may induce systemic side effects. However, RU58841, on topical application, revealed a potent increase in density, thickening, and length of hair in the macaque model of androgenetic alopecia, whereas no systemic effects were detected.


 I think in some phenotypes RU58841 might go systematic, The handy thing about RU-58841 is that it works differently than a 5ar2 inhibitor and doesn't alter hormonal levels whatsoever. Sides rapidly go away when treatment is stopped if you look at user experience. I experience the same.

----------


## burtandernie

If you buy the premixed RU from anagenic how long does it keep and can you just store it room temperature? If you apply it like once a day how long would 50ml last you?

----------


## Illusion

> If you buy the premixed RU from anagenic how long does it keep and can you just store it room temperature? If you apply it like once a day how long would 50ml last you?


 Can't really tell you much about efficacy of premixed RU compared to self-mixed RU... I believe Kane's RU (in powder form, not in mixed form!) is proven to keep it's efficacy at room temp for 6 months, you should ask someone else as a reference though.

Regarding ml/dose, it depends on your area of balding. When you only need to apply it to the hair line, I think 0,5ml is enough. However, when your whole scalp is balding you're going to need 2ml at least in my experience. It also depends on vehicle. ethanol/ppg (70/30) is a bit thicker then when you mix RU into minox, thus I feel it's easier to spread the minox-RU out over my head and thus I need less of it.

----------


## Tenma

if you choose to go with premixed ru,  the 5% concentration  1 ml= 50 mg. it should last you 50 days if you apply 1 ml per day. thats what im using now and it works great. im buying the premixed ru from anageninc. apparently it should be stable at least for 6 months. the dosing  schedule really depends on the cm2  area you want to cover.

----------


## Alclops

Hi guys, will denatured alcohol suffice as an alternative to Everclear? It contains 95% ethanol, 5% water, 0.01% denaturant. Unfortunately they don't sell Everclear in Australia. It is $3 for 1L.

----------


## burtandernie

Do most people buy from Kane or anagenic or is there a difference? I think it goes without saying that if you dont get a legit pure batch it would be pretty dangerous and probably not work too well

----------


## deuce

Man I want to try this stuff bad, but I am so nervous about it.

----------


## burtandernie

yeah its a little nerve wracking to take an experimental chemical that is made who knows where under who knows what conditions. The positive is your using this topically so its not like your drinking this stuff everyday.

----------


## Kudu

If it makes anyone feel better, I literally just finished my first application of RU a few minutes ago. I feel no different and  my dick hasn't fallen off yet, so I think I'm in good shape haha. Ordered from Anagen, the package came nicely packaged and timely, so far I'm pleased. Back to my initial question, would it hurt if I applied RU twice a day? Morning and night? What do yall think?

----------


## deuce

> yeah its a little nerve wracking to take an experimental chemical that is made who knows where under who knows what conditions. The positive is your using this topically so its not like your drinking this stuff everyday.


 Yeah man I hear ya.  Its looking like I may order some soon.  I just cannot wait another 4 years for CB or Bimatroprost.

----------


## FearTheLoss

To be honest I think RU didn't make it to market because it does go systematic. I have tried to take fin 3 different times at different dosages and have suffered side effects from it ever since. Granted, they are not near as bad now, and I'm getting slightly better as time passes, they still exist. 

I tried RU premixed from kane and had very very minor sides, nothing compared to fin, but nonetheless they were still present. I'd assume they knew this and therefore it wasn't smart to even bring it to market for the small population that would use it. 

I don't have much hope for CB because of this. I think all AA's are going to come with sides, but if CB does in fact dissolve when it hits the bloodstream, then that would be huge.

----------


## Illusion

> If it makes anyone feel better, I literally just finished my first application of RU a few minutes ago. I feel no different and  my dick hasn't fallen off yet, so I think I'm in good shape haha. Ordered from Anagen, the package came nicely packaged and timely, so far I'm pleased. Back to my initial question, would it hurt if I applied RU twice a day? Morning and night? What do yall think?


 Wouldn't hurt to apply twice a day (morning and night) but I think you'd be throwing money away tbh. I doubt applying it AM and PM is going to have a big increase in efficacy compared to AM or PM only.

Good choice starting with RU bro, it will ease your mind a bit at the very least. Hopefully you'll get some positive results soon! What dosage and which vehicle are you using?

----------


## Folfoxorack

I've tried RU for 8 months

Pics Before and After.

Before

http://hpics.li/f16fbef

After ...

http://hpics.li/c74422b

-

My old regimen : Avodart twice a day (fin doesn't work at al for me) + Minoxidil ... since 5 yo. Worked great.

When I started RU : Ru 50mg up to 100. + Minoxidil + Avodart twice a week ... I wanted to lower sexual sides effects.

I lost a lot of hair and after 8 months I give up. My scalp hurts so much.
RU is from anageninc.

Avodart is the only treatment that works on me. I'm really disappointed.

Maybe RU is great, but not for men like me who have a very agressive AGA. I can make others pcis ... but I feel so depressed each time I do ...

If your current regimen works, dont try an other ...

----------


## nliyan25

I'm still losing about 15 hairs a day on RU, which isn't bad, I think. I've been using it since September 2013. I usually skip a day per week (laziness, usually), and usually lose more than 15 hairs the next day. Does this match up with other peoples' experiences?

----------


## hellouser

> I'm still losing about 15 hairs a day on RU, which isn't bad, I think. I've been using it since September 2013. I usually skip a day per week (laziness, usually), and usually lose more than 15 hairs the next day. Does this match up with other peoples' experiences?


 You could be losing 15 or 150 hairs a day. It doesn't matter. The real evidence is in the hair that's regrown; is it thicker or continually miniaturized?

----------


## burtandernie

Someone should apply a little to their beard, or body hair somewhere like an arm to see over a few months what it does. Assuming its all working I would expect a powerful AA like RU to have some real effect on facial hair or body hair if it alters all androgens from binding with the follicles. Should work on any hair not just head hair. I mean in theory your talking almost castration levels of androgens its a pretty powerful substance although its all depending on how pure and potent the chemical they are selling actually is.

----------


## Alclops

Sorry to ask this again, but will denatured alcohol suffice as an alternative to Everclear? It contains 95% ethanol, 5% water, 0.01% denaturant. Unfortunately they don't sell Everclear in Australia.

Thanks!

----------


## diffuseloser

I miss a fair few days on RU. Usually get about 5 days in a row in, Mon to Fri then slack off a bit on the weekend. I do notice I lose a few more hairs on the day I miss. But it's working great for me. Really happy with it and don't mind using it long term until something better comes along. No sides either.

----------


## Hairismylife

> I miss a fair few days on RU. Usually get about 5 days in a row in, Mon to Fri then slack off a bit on the weekend. I do notice I lose a few more hairs on the day I miss. But it's working great for me. Really happy with it and don't mind using it long term until something better comes along. No sides either.


 What means working great? Keeping or regrowth?
I can't see regrowth having used RU for 3 months.

----------


## burtandernie

I dont think that means much either way. If you see miniaturized hairs back to full length than your onto something. So RU is legal to buy for research purposes? I still wish we had a little more on its safety. Its a pretty powerful drug if it went systemic but maybe the guy is selling diluted or fake RU anyways.
lucky for us all of MPB is a big research problem since no one knows anything about how to stop it. So every MPB treatment is kind of for research into whether it works for you or not.

----------


## deuce

> I dont think that means much either way. If you see miniaturized hairs back to full length than your onto something. So RU is legal to buy for research purposes? I still wish we had a little more on its safety. Its a pretty powerful drug if it went systemic but maybe the guy is selling diluted or fake RU anyways.
> lucky for us all of MPB is a big research problem since no one knows anything about how to stop it. So every MPB treatment is kind of for research into whether it works for you or not.


 I hear ya man. Thats the one thing about it for me.  The safety. WOuldnt it be nice if we could contact the researchers behind their study and see why it was not passed for FDA approval.

----------


## nliyan25

hellouser, honestly, I (foolishly) didn't take pictures when I first started RU, but I don't know if it's making much of a difference. I know when I first started using it, I was losing something like 50 hairs a day. Rogaine definitely didn't work for me. I'm wondering if I should try Propecia instead.

----------


## xLeox

what % do you guys use RU at ? first month I've been using it 8%, and then I switched to 5%. I think I can have noticeable results only using 8%, cause, even though I still lose less hair than before, I don't seem to have any further regrowth now that I switched to 5%.

----------


## Swooping

> what % do you guys use RU at ? first month I've been using it 8%, and then I switched to 5%. I think I can have noticeable results only using 8%, cause, even though I still lose less hair than before, I don't seem to have any further regrowth now that I switched to 5%.


 I use 5%.. Used 6-7% too but didn't really notice a difference.

----------


## burtandernie

It is legal to buy this in US then right? I dont want my house raided or go to jail in cuffs for trying this. I might try it just to use a little on the temples where hair is already miniaturized just to see if it does anything or maybe a little on my arm for a while to see if it actually does anything. I think I will see derm though and go propecia route over this because this chemical is just too unknown and unregulated.

----------


## Illusion

> It is legal to buy this in US then right? I dont want my house raided or go to jail in cuffs for trying this. I might try it just to use a little on the temples where hair is already miniaturized just to see if it does anything *or maybe a little on my arm for a while to see if it actually does anything*. I think I will see derm though and go propecia route over this because this chemical is just too unknown and unregulated.


 What

You mean put it on your arm to see if it will stop body hair growth on that particular spot first? If that's what you meant then lol, dont waste your time with that. If I were you I'd hop on fin and apply RU to the spots on your scalp where it's most needed (so if you're receding, only apply RU to your hairline/temples). That way it doesnt cost you much money and you'll have double protection.

Now ain't that great

----------


## burtandernie

Yeah I have been thinking lately about seeing a derm for propecia because my normal doc wont prescribe it but the derm costs more so hopefully my doc can refill them. RU then is legal to buy in US? My hair loss is pretty minor and slow but I have that itch in the very front and I have miniaturization going on.

----------


## lilpauly

> Yeah I have been thinking lately about seeing a derm for propecia because my normal doc wont prescribe it but the derm costs more so hopefully my doc can refill them. RU then is legal to buy in US? My hair loss is pretty minor and slow but I have that itch in the very front and I have miniaturization going on.


  U should start with fin and Minox . I get a script for DUt through the wellness center

----------


## diffuse

Hello guys, sorry for my english i'm from Hungary, Europe. My first post here. I started using RU like a week ago, got from Kane, made a 600mg batch (70/30 ethanol ppg) for 10 days so it's 60 mg daily. I'm sensitive to anti androgens but I haven't experienced any sides yet, which is weird cause a lot of users say that they have bad sides, i hope my ru isnt fake. My question is: Have you guys ever heard or used Dutasteride mesotherapy? There's doctor here who has been doing it for 7 years with some before after pics and he claims that it's working. I've started using it on my own in May, 2014, i don't afraid of needles and it's much cheaper. I've injected to the scalp 1mg of dut every month (Like the doctor), also used minoxidil and had a full head of hair!!!!, when i started using dut meso  i stopped minox and ive been trough a terrible shed and i went straight back on it and had an amazing regrowth. Around christmas my hair started shedding bad and in 1 month I lost almost all of my hair (that's why I started using RU). So I'm back where i started. Do you think it will come back?? I've seen on ************ Irishpride he had terrible sheds and he always came back from it. I upload pictures about my success and a photo of the current situation. 

http://kepfeltoltes.hu/view/150211/I...toltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes.hu/150211/febr_9...toltes.hu_.jpg

Thanks.

----------


## Illusion

Sup guys, quick question:

I mix 70mg RU with 1,5ml minox (5% Kirkland) and 0,5ml ethanol. I still have that MPB-itch though. Am I doing something wrong? I make batches for 3days and keep those batches in the fridge.

----------


## jacobus

Illusion, it might just be that you use too much shampoo every day. I hated the itch on my head and was convinced that it was from MPB, but when I couldn't shower for two days it started to go away and has not come back since I started using much less shampoo every day (two weeks already). Of course MPB-itch is real, however, I am saying that a similar itch may arise from too much shampoo. If it applies to your case, please try! - (only a little for your hairs and wash away quickly)

----------


## kaptainjack

> Illusion, it might just be that you use too much shampoo every day. I hated the itch on my head and was convinced that it was from MPB, but when I couldn't shower for two days it started to go away and has not come back since I started using much less shampoo every day (two weeks already). Of course MPB-itch is real, however, I am saying that a similar itch may arise from too much shampoo. If it applies to your case, please try! - (only a little for your hairs and wash away quickly)


 Or try a sulfate free shampoo.

----------


## Jonathan

I just decided to drop fin and will try RU instead. I use 1 ml Rogain 5% foam in the mornings, and 1ml Rogain 5% liquid at night so it would be easiest just mixing the RU with the Rogain. What do you thing about mixing RU with the liquid Minox as a 10% solution and then just apply it once a day, at night? ...and keep taking 1 ml Rogain foam in the morning without RU.

----------


## deuce

So ready to make the jump to try this.  I am just hung up on it being an experimental treatment.  I cannot find any good studies on safety.  Such as fertility and other side effects.  Man it just sucks that we don't know more.  I know a lot of people have tried it, but it is still scary putting a chemical on your head and it gets in your body systematically and you know the chemical was not made in a lab by a reputable company.  Any input would be great.  Thanks guys

----------


## Swooping

> So ready to make the jump to try this.  I am just hung up on it being an experimental treatment.  I cannot find any good studies on safety.  Such as fertility and other side effects.  Man it just sucks that we don't know more.  I know a lot of people have tried it, but it is still scary putting a chemical on your head and it gets in your body systematically and you know the chemical was not made in a lab by a reputable company.  Any input would be great.  Thanks guys


 Well you can find enough studies about anti-androgens. There are quite some studies about RU too and clinical trials have run too. Perhaps you can contact the people who were involved in this to get more information.

----------


## sdsurfin

> So ready to make the jump to try this.  I am just hung up on it being an experimental treatment.  I cannot find any good studies on safety.  Such as fertility and other side effects.  Man it just sucks that we don't know more.  I know a lot of people have tried it, but it is still scary putting a chemical on your head and it gets in your body systematically and you know the chemical was not made in a lab by a reputable company.  Any input would be great.  Thanks guys


 Deuce I think the way to go right now is to use ru like every other day and a pgd2 blocker in rotation. Or just both every day if you have the money. Every person buying RU should be asking for setipip or OC or both. I'm positive they are much safer and better maintenance treatments. And for whoever is on fin and not maintaining I think adding a pgd2 blocker is prob the way to go. I've researched the shit out of this and it all seems correct.

----------


## Illusion

> Illusion, it might just be that you use too much shampoo every day. I hated the itch on my head and was convinced that it was from MPB, but when I couldn't shower for two days it started to go away and has not come back since I started using much less shampoo every day (two weeks already). Of course MPB-itch is real, however, I am saying that a similar itch may arise from too much shampoo. If it applies to your case, please try! - (only a little for your hairs and wash away quickly)


 Thanks for the tip, will cut down on my shampoo-usage. Everything to get rid of that itch I guess, it's annoying as hell.




> Well you can find enough studies about anti-androgens. There are quite some studies about RU too and clinical trials have run too. *Perhaps you can contact the people who were involved in this to get more information.*


 This is so much harder than it sounds. Maybe I'm just a retard when it comes to finding other people online, but I searched through quite some articles on ncbi, googled every researcher of Battmann's team and even searched through Linked-In, but nothing came out of it... I highly encourage anyone to try as well though, I was hoping to get an answer as to why RU was discontinued from any further investigation. Up to this day I hope that it had something to do with finances or it being too expensive, and something with potentional (longterm) sides or its efficacy. Though I assume if it were one of the latter, we would have read more about it online.

----------


## sdsurfin

> Thanks for the tip, will cut down on my shampoo-usage. Everything to get rid of that itch I guess, it's annoying as hell.
> 
> 
> 
> This is so much harder than it sounds. Maybe I'm just a retard when it comes to finding other people online, but I searched through quite some articles on ncbi, googled every researcher of Battmann's team and even searched through Linked-In, but nothing came out of it... I highly encourage anyone to try as well though, I was hoping to get an answer as to why RU was discontinued from any further investigation. Up to this day I hope that it had something to do with finances or it being too expensive, and something with potentional (longterm) sides or its efficacy. Though I assume if it were one of the latter, we would have read more about it online.


 
Man I have struggled with the itch for two years now, and the only thing that got rid of it was topical zyrtec at night.  It's still there a little, but even after not taking zyrtec for two days it's not bad.  I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but PGD2 is the key here.  If you block the things that jumpstart inflammation, you block the itch.  I have no idea if blocking PGD2 is the way to keep your hair forever, but it definitely does not hurt.  

Evrery person on this forum should be waking up to the news that Cotsarellis' research was legit, and that companies are willing to invest money into this.  Not to mention the fact that pretty much every PGD2 blocker tested by people online has pretty much halted shedding.  Do not expect regrowth from this route, but if you want to stop losing hair, we need to start getting someone like kane to sell this at a competitive price.  Things like BIM and SM might come out in a few years and provide that means for regrowth that the blockers don't have, but until then the purpose of these forums is to makes moves ahead of time and keep what we've got.  

Every forum poster that still has hair should be emailing kane (or working to find another source) and asking his a) to sell setipiprant at a competitive price to RU, b) sell OC at a competitive price, and c) explain to him why we are more interested in setipip (because cots and kythera have worked for two years tailing different pgd2 blockers, and that is what they chose.  Tell kane that it doesn't matter if OC is stronger, it might not be as selective for hair growth as setipip is, and is surely more of a pain to apply.  I don't know about you, but ethanol does not do anything good for my scalp.

----------


## sdsurfin

and vis a vis RU, i doubt it's too unsafe to give a shot (definitely more safe than propecia), but we only have to look at the history of people online trialling it to see that it has a very variable efficacy.  It seems to work and then stop working and cause sheds, and the PGD2 blockers don't seem to do this at all.

----------


## lifelonglearning

Just wanted to post my personal experiences on RU

Ive tried it about 3 times

- first 5 percent KB for about 3 days got bad ball pain watery semen and bad erections  .I stopped but then decided to try

- A month or two later 3 percent in Neogenic after one day i got the same sides but this time made me feel more depressed and out of it. so

-finally two months later I tried 3 percent KB and still same sides but the depressed feeling was the worst

Now something that I got every time I tried it was an immediate reducing in shedding for the one or two days after applying it BUT it would then take me into a really bad shed. Every time i tried it I would have a bad shed And itch lasting one or two weeks this was more evident the second two times i tried it. It has led me to believe that blocking receptors and then unblocking can have some sort of an increased sensitivity effect.

And RU58441 when it goes into you blood and it does definitely has systemic effects even though it only blocks receptors. It took me about a week each time to recover from sides , and the sheds that I experienced made me lose a noticeable amount of density in a short time one or two weeks.

----------


## sdsurfin

Shit man.  Has anyone had a consistently good experience with RU?  I didn't know people were getting fin-like side effects.

----------


## Kudu

Hey guys, just wanted to chime in on how RU is working for me. I started using Anageninc's 5% solution a few weeks ago, I've seen a slight increase in shedding, nothing really cosmetically noticeable just the smaller hairs that were useless anyway. Overall though, my scalp is less oily and most of my itch and irritation has gone away which is funny because I thought the ethanol would cause more irritation. As for side effects? Absolutely nothing. I was really worried about it but my sex drive and everything else hasn't changed one bit.

Anyway, how can RU cause the receptor to become more sensitive? I've heard this before but I've never seen any evidence of it.

----------


## sdsurfin

So I was reading this on a forum about something totally different, but I think the same thing comes into play with androgen receptor blockers:  "

antagonists will usually cause upregulation. Block a receptor from being activated, and cascades of reactions will take place to increase receptor density. A good example is beta blockers. This is exactly the reason behind the idea of tapering off them rather than abrupt withdrawal, as given sufficient time and blockade, a large increase in receptor density will precipitate a massive catecholaminergic response, and consequential ischemia and heart attacks (which are pretty hard to treat relative to typical atherosclerotic/thrombotic ischemic events)"

This would explain why people have such fluctuating experiences with RU.  I'm not gonna use it even though I ordered some, I don't think blocking receptors is the way to go when it comes to solving any health issues, because when you stop blocking them there is going to be hell to pay.  Unfortunately the new PGD2 drugs work by blocking receptors too, but at least in that case they are not messing with your androgen receptors and your hormonal balance, and might get us over the hump to cell based treatments like replicel.

----------


## Swooping

> So I was reading this on a forum about something totally different, but I think the same thing comes into play with androgen receptor blockers:  "
> 
> antagonists will usually cause upregulation. Block a receptor from being activated, and cascades of reactions will take place to increase receptor density. A good example is beta blockers. This is exactly the reason behind the idea of tapering off them rather than abrupt withdrawal, as given sufficient time and blockade, a large increase in receptor density will precipitate a massive catecholaminergic response, and consequential ischemia and heart attacks (which are pretty hard to treat relative to typical atherosclerotic/thrombotic ischemic events)"
> 
> This would explain why people have such fluctuating experiences with RU.  I'm not gonna use it even though I ordered some, I don't think blocking receptors is the way to go when it comes to solving any health issues, because when you stop blocking them there is going to be hell to pay.  Unfortunately the new PGD2 drugs work by blocking receptors too, but at least in that case they are not messing with your androgen receptors and your hormonal balance, and might get us over the hump to cell based treatments like replicel.


 This definitely doesn't apply to non-steroidal anti-androgens like RU. It's all bro science.

----------


## sdsurfin

> This definitely doesn't apply to non-steroidal anti-androgens like RU. It's all bro science.


 How do you know swooping? Not questioning you, just curious.  It doesn't seem like RU is steady in the long run and this might explain it.  The body definitely tends to up regulate receptors if they are blocked in many cases. Please shed light.

Also intersted in this same potential with setipiprant and OC, how do we know that they are not going to basically make us more prone to PGD2 damage by blocking the receptors and making our cells basically make more receptors. this would make sense as to why people have withdrawals on cetirizine i really don't know, would love expert input.

----------


## Hairismylife

> This definitely doesn't apply to non-steroidal anti-androgens like RU. It's all bro science.


 What's the difference of being non-steroidal?

----------


## sdsurfin

So I tried ru for the first time and have not had the intense dudes I for from fin. My balls did feel kinda dull ache, but very mild. They do seem to not wanna hang like usual (sorry tmi) , do people experience this on ru? I'll say one thing, the mpb itch went away instantly. Like unreal. Been dying cetirizine which helped but nothing like this, the itch is extinct in ru in kb solution. If I can start using OC or setipip at a good price then I prob won't use ru, but maybe once in a while to kill the itch.

----------


## sdsurfin

Also has anyone been on RU for several years at this point? Interested to know what it's been like for people long term.

----------


## burtandernie

Thats my big issue with RU just lack of information on it and the reliability of the manufacturing of it. It probably works though. Its odd that so many men including me have that itch that seems related to androgens, but there has never been any actual scientific connection between the two that I know of. Right now I am just debating propecia or RU or wait for something better since I only have minor loss and its going slowly

----------


## lilpauly

> Thats my big issue with RU just lack of information on it and the reliability of the manufacturing of it. It probably works though. Its odd that so many men including me have that itch that seems related to androgens, but there has never been any actual scientific connection between the two that I know of. Right now I am just debating propecia or RU or wait for something better since I only have minor loss and its going slowly


  Jump on fin . 99.99 people don't have sides , ifs safer then aspirin

----------


## burtandernie

A little off topic but if my doc wont prescribe fin and I saw a derm instead to get it could I have my normal doc refill the prescriptions? I dont want to keep seeing a derm for cost reasons since doc is cheaper but doc wont prescribe it. I figured the cost of generic fin is like 30 a month but if I take the .25mg its a fourth of that price which isnt too bad so it might be worth trying.

----------


## sdsurfin

Ugh nut pain increasing with RU.  We really gotta get on the OC and setipip train, these anti androgens are the worst.

----------


## Illusion

> Ugh nut pain increasing with RU.


 What dosage are you using? You can always try to lower your dosage to the point the sides are getting tolerable (or to the point where you don't have sides anymore at all).

But if it's just nut pain then I'd ride it out for a couple of weeks, I recall more people reporting that side effect during the first few weeks they were on fin and it disappeared after a few weeks or a month or so.

----------


## sdsurfin

The nut pain was worse for me on fin (as well as overall lack of well-being due to 5ar inhibition. if you do research on 5ar it affects all sorts of parts in the body).  Also it didn't go away for me on fin.  It makes sense that RU would do the same, the DHT receptor that RU blocs is in your hair, your balls, your prostate, and your adrenals.  My prostate and my balls both hurt mildly, and my hair feels great.  Not sure if messing with my balls and prostate is a good idea, but i will try to ride it out for a while.  If I can get my hands on OC and BIM at a reasonable rate though I'm definitely getting off the RU. Blocking PGD2 is so much safer,  DHT basically makes your body feel manly and good.

----------


## burtandernie

There are decent reasons why I have never tried propecia or RU yet. I never really wanted to, and there are good reasons doctors dont hand out propecia or other AAs out to men like free samples. Its all there is but I still dont like the idea of internal hormone changes long term its just asking for a problem eventually it seems.

----------


## Swooping

> How do you know swooping? Not questioning you, just curious.  It doesn't seem like RU is steady in the long run and this might explain it.  The body definitely tends to up regulate receptors if they are blocked in many cases. Please shed light.
> 
> Also intersted in this same potential with setipiprant and OC, how do we know that they are not going to basically make us more prone to PGD2 damage by blocking the receptors and making our cells basically make more receptors. this would make sense as to why people have withdrawals on cetirizine i really don't know, would love expert input.


 Castration or androgen deprivation can actually lead to downregulation of AR and administering androgens subsequently blocks this effect. It isn't the other way around. Supraphysiological levels of androgens for instance can lead to upregulation of AR. Anti-androgens are furthermore used as a treatments against prostate cancer which is often hormone driven (cancer cells can mutate and adapt though). Would be a bit stupid to use them for that if they could increase AR sensitivity or expression right? RU is perfectly stable in the long turn for many people. It's just not stable for everyone, but so is finasteride. That's the bitch of androgenetic alopecia. If you want stability for everyone, castration is the only answer. Simple as that. 

I can't really answer your 2nd question, because I haven't read enough studies regarding the whole PGD2 pathway and such. I'm not that hyped for the whole PGD2 story though.  You would have to research it.




> What's the difference of being non-steroidal?


 A steroidal anti androgen like cyproterone acetate doesn't only bind to the androgen receptor, the pharmalogical activity is broader. I don't remember exactly through which mechanism and how it does, but using cyproterone acetate can actually make your testosterone levels rise while being on it, especially when going on a high dosage. Therefore they recommend to slowly taper off the treatment instead of abrupt withdrawal as that may cause a rebound effect of higher testosterone. This doesn't have to do with the binding to the AR though. Also this doesn't have the case to be for a steroidal anti androgen like CB-03-01 though obviously. The only current steroidal anti-androgen that is on the market AFAIK is cyproterone acetate.

----------


## ghostrider

Swooping explain why ru58841 is side free and FDA approved fina causing puffy nippels. Because ru58841 is similar to androgen ?




> Castration or androgen deprivation can actually lead to downregulation of AR and administering androgens subsequently blocks this effect. It isn't the other way around. Supraphysiological levels of androgens for instance can lead to upregulation of AR. Anti-androgens are furthermore used as a treatments against prostate cancer which is often hormone driven (cancer cells can mutate and adapt though). Would be a bit stupid to use them for that if they could increase AR sensitivity or expression right? RU is perfectly stable in the long turn for many people. It's just not stable for everyone, but so is finasteride. That's the bitch of androgenetic alopecia. If you want stability for everyone, castration is the only answer. Simple as that. 
> 
> I can't really answer your 2nd question, because I haven't read enough studies regarding the whole PGD2 pathway and such. I'm not that hyped for the whole PGD2 story though.  You would have to research it.
> 
> 
> 
> A steroidal anti androgen like cyproterone acetate doesn't only bind to the androgen receptor, the pharmalogical activity is broader. I don't remember exactly through which mechanism and how it does, but using cyproterone acetate can actually make your testosterone levels rise while being on it, especially when going on a high dosage. Therefore they recommend to slowly taper off the treatment instead of abrupt withdrawal as that may cause a rebound effect of higher testosterone. This doesn't have to do with the binding to the AR though. Also this doesn't have the case to be for a steroidal anti androgen like CB-03-01 though obviously. The only current steroidal anti-androgen that is on the market AFAIK is cyproterone acetate.

----------


## sdsurfin

Finasteride is also a steroidal 5ar inhibitor. RU from my experience is equally capable if giving bad sides, is highly unproven for safety, although prob doesn't have the broad cognitive etc sides that fin can have. It was enough that it made my nuts hurt tons and hide like frightened children. Scary stuff. All these treatments are pretty BS. Trying to take shots at pathways that aren't the complete picture. If replicel or setipiprant don't work, and those are huge ifs, then I don't have much hope for a reliable and easy to maintain treatment. Everything else is too big a pain in the ass for most sane men.

----------


## burtandernie

Why is shipping on anageninc 25 dollars with priority ground as only option? Why cant I pick standard ground which is a lot cheaper instead. I dont get that big waste of money there.
I think CB could be the answer going the AA route, but its clear a bunch of forum people arent going to figure it all out lose dose and everything. You need company resources so you just have to wait. Im not convinced its not powerful enough or is too expensive like people guess because the company has already went this far with it and is still pursuing it.
RU probably goes systemic still I mean it makes good sense that is why they canned it.

----------


## ghostrider

Thanks mate,

You must be very unlucky.  Hopefully stemmcell treatments arrive soon enough.The majority of dudes seem to tollerate ru58841 very well. Someone pointed out important factor about Ru58841 . The drug stays 1 hour in  in our blood. Is this because it's not androgen like propecia perhaps?

I'm having no sides or whatsoever, hair gradually improving. 





> Finasteride is also a steroidal 5ar inhibitor. RU from my experience is equally capable if giving bad sides, is highly unproven for safety, although prob doesn't have the broad cognitive etc sides that fin can have. It was enough that it made my nuts hurt tons and hide like frightened children. Scary stuff. All these treatments are pretty BS. Trying to take shots at pathways that aren't the complete picture. If replicel or setipiprant don't work, and those are huge ifs, then I don't have much hope for a reliable and easy to maintain treatment. Everything else is too big a pain in the ass for most sane men.

----------


## burtandernie

Maybe I can ask them if they can add shipping options like say amazon so I can pick standard ground and save like 10 bucks. 25 is a lot of money to ship a little container of some RU i mean the stuff itself is like 40

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## lilpauly

> Maybe I can ask them if they can add shipping options like say amazon so I can pick standard ground and save like 10 bucks. 25 is a lot of money to ship a little container of some RU i mean the stuff itself is like 40


  U should jump on fin first with minox . I guarantee this all u need .

----------


## burtandernie

> U should jump on fin first with minox . I guarantee this all u need .


 I know fin is probably the smarter choice but I dont think my doc will prescribe it. I might go that route in the near future. Im also not a big fan of the systemic hormone route for a cosmetic issue. That is the only reason for trying RU is the hope it wont go systemic very much and I dont plan on using much except at temples with a low percent like 3. If I was drinking the stuff I wouldnt touch it because its from random supplier in china but topicals make so much more sense. I agree though it could cause issues or go systemic who really knows.
Im not sure fin can hold the very front hairline which is what I want to stop the NW 1.5/2

----------


## burtandernie

Im only interested in premade stuff. Has anyone bought or ever tested RU from here - http://www.aarc-chems.com/ru58841-liquid-solution  because this stuff ships for 5 dollars in US while the other normal places most people seem to buy from cost 25 for shipping. 25 dollars to ship a bottle of liquid verses 5?

----------


## Swooping

> Finasteride is also a steroidal 5ar inhibitor. RU from my experience is equally capable if giving bad sides, is highly unproven for safety, although prob doesn't have the broad cognitive etc sides that fin can have. It was enough that it made my nuts hurt tons and hide like frightened children. Scary stuff. All these treatments are pretty BS. Trying to take shots at pathways that aren't the complete picture. If replicel or setipiprant don't work, and those are huge ifs, then I don't have much hope for a reliable and easy to maintain treatment. Everything else is too big a pain in the ass for most sane men.


 Finasteride works in 9/10 people for maintenance. Less than 10% get sides and that is on the high end. I guess you are unlucky to be susceptible to side effects too. Anyway if you don't go on either fin, dut or ru you are going to lose hair simple as that. Every second counts. Your choice to make. Read this study; 

http://www.synergypublishers.com/jms...e/view/701/347




> Media reports, Internet sites and misinformation by alternative medicine practitioners recently contributed to a negative image associated with finasteride, leading to apprehension and concern among patients taking the medication. Frequently, even dermatologists seem to be hesitant to prescribe the drug for long periods, mistakenly fearing the occurrence of long-term side effects. Finasteride, either alone or in combination with topical minoxidil, is an excellent option for men with androgenetic alopecia, reducing hair loss, and/or restoring hair growth in 9 of 10 patients. The drug can be taken at any time of the day, with or without food. There are no reports of significant drug interactions or allergies. Because it is metabolized in the liver, the drug should be used with caution in patients with liver diseases, but there is no need to indicate liver function tests frequently yet.


 





> Swooping explain why ru58841 is side free and FDA approved fina causing puffy nippels. Because ru58841 is similar to androgen ?


 RU can have sides too and can cause puffy nipples too. Nonetheless I think a topical androgen receptor antagonist has a more favorable action than systematical 5ar2 inhibition. It's more efficient and straight to the target that way and doesn't alter hormones. If you want to know more I suggest you start go reading. There is more than enough information around.

----------


## Tenma

> Finasteride works in 9/10 people for maintenance.


 Well a young men with aga has a 25-30% chance to lose some hair on fin.

the 10 year fin study showed that those with high androgen levels showed the poorest results long term.

Dont get me wrong, i think propecia should be everyone first step when it comes to aga but for some it might not be enough.

Dut seems to be a better option for those people, i think. 

According to a very recent study published by glaxo tt performed really well long term: 99% kept or improved their hair over 4 years!

----------


## Tenma

In my opinion the perfect combo is DUT+RU. It will cause a dramatic impact on dht at the hf level, even comparable to castration (in the case of ru locally, thanks god lol).

But its important to start with good hair because if dht caused too much damaged, nothing will work unless you are very lucky

----------


## Swooping

> Well a young men with aga has a 25-30% chance to lose some hair on fin.
> 
> the 10 year fin study showed that those with high androgen levels showed the poorest results long term.
> 
> Dont get me wrong, i think propecia should be everyone first step when it comes to aga but for some it might not be enough.
> 
> Dut seems to be a better option for those people, i think. 
> 
> According to a very recent study published by glaxo tt performed really well long term: 99% kept or improved their hair over 4 years!


 Very good points. I concur with you that the mean ~70% dht inhibition finasteride gives isn't suffice for some people. But as you mention then you have DUT left for those people. RU is also a possibility and combining them as you mention just is a preventative cure for everyone. Starting early is the key indeed, preventing the damage is so damn important.

----------


## burtandernie

I guess by default it means no but has anyone got RU from here -http://www.aarc-chems.com/ru58841-liquid-solution is this stuff legit or third party tested by anyone? Its a lot cheaper so I would rather try this. The biggest negative about RU is not knowing the legitimacy of the chemical your getting.

----------


## ghostrider

I wouldn't compromise when it's about my hair.
Quality is very important for ru58841 to work.
Aarc and ru solutions.com gave me this huge shedding  with increased oily itching scalp.  It is probably mixed with some cheaper chemicals. Not sure what it is.

I switched back to kanes k&b 5% which seems to work fine. 

Currently looking for some decent regrowth.  I will receive my oc next week hopefully.

Anyone combining ru+minox +pdg2?

----------


## Tenma

i buy the premixed from kane. i wasnt really hopeful at first given the ru stability debate. but its really working for me 

i have no idea about aarc chems though.

also use the ru solution over the first two months to have some peace of mind regarding precipitation issues

----------


## burtandernie

Okay so other places dont seem to be as good. My gripe is its 25 to ship on anageninc but 5 on aarc. I mean your talking stuff your buying many times over the course of years so its a lot of money long term for nothing. They also say the solution lasts about a year under decent conditions like out of sun light so I think using it in a few months is a bit too cautious.

----------


## ghostrider

Buying in bulk would be your best bet. It is very easy to mix yourself though. Powder is stable for years. You cold pop some powder in your minox and you're done  :Wink:   personally I'd preffer the k&b solution. I'm personally to lazy to mix myself but it shouldn't be that hard. Why aren't you trying fin at first. My dermatologist recommended me starting with approved treatments at first. Which I tried.

----------


## lilpauly

Burtanderine why don't u buy Susan's Minox fin formula ?

----------


## lilpauly

Burtandefine why don't u buy Susan's fin Minox formula

----------


## burtandernie

No idea what that is and I dont want minox just fin for maintaining. I would be happy simply keeping what I have without altering hormone levels long term.  RU assuming it had some reliable supplier is sadly the best there seems to be still

----------


## burtandernie

Is RU safe to use? I read some old posts from a few years ago where some guy had heart problems and thought it was from RU. That kind of thing can be kind of worrying in a drug that really isnt approved and you dont know if the stuff you took was even legit or if it was contaminated with other stuff. To me topical and targeting receptors always made a lot more sense than the propecia approach. That is what everyone wants the most powerful AA that is safe too and the only way to do that is topically.

----------


## Trouse5858

I'm on it right now. I definitely think it has given me shortness of breath after applying it and has caused mild chest pain that I would liken to heartburn. Overall, not a great sign but then again, watch a drug commercial on TV and listen to the laundry list of side effects. It's unfortunate but I since I couldn't take fin which would have helped me a ton, I'm rolling the dice on RU.

----------


## burtandernie

Yeah that doesnt sound good. Maybe I should go hassle my doc and see if I can go the finasteride route before trying RU. RU sounds like as much of a gamble as fin. I have no idea where all the no sides from RU talk comes from. Just because it targets receptors doesnt mean much of anything. Could certainly cause problems still. I really wanted to avoid fin but RU doesnt sound much safer so who knows I guess. The wonderful world of MPB

----------


## Trouse5858

Haha it really is such a pain in the ass that a medication even close to as strong as fin hasn't come out without the sexual sides.  I took propecia for literally 3 weeks before I noticed the sexual sides.  It took another 2 weeks or so after stopping that I could get erections again.  I realize that sounds like it may be too short of a time period to really gauge anything about a drug or experience full-blown side effects but this did not seem like a placebo effect.  

I've been thinking recently about switching back to fin and seeing if I can tolerate it better.  I think the reason people like myself are more comfortable with RU is because the side effects just aren't as bad. Gyno sucks but mine isn't noticeable to anyone other than myself.  ED is simply the worst thing you can have, balding or not.  If I could have the benefits of fin without ED, I'd sign up for all the brain fog and headaches it can dish out, it's just a trade-off.

----------


## RockyMtn

> i buy the premixed from kane. i wasnt really hopeful at first given the ru stability debate. but its really working for me 
> 
> i have no idea about aarc chems though.
> 
> also use the ru solution over the first two months to have some peace of mind regarding precipitation issues


 Hey Tenma, when you state "it's really working for me", how so?  What has RU done for you to date, and how long have you used it?  Thanks!

----------


## Tenma

> Hey Tenma, when you state "it's really working for me", how so? What has RU done for you to date, and how long have you used it? Thanks!


 What im seeing is a noticeable thickening all over my NW2. something hairline, which I find somewhat shocking because im using antiandrogens since 2005 and never really had much regrowth ( like most people i think) until i started using the ru.

I was on fin for 5 years and switched to dut in 2013. That change didnt really impact on any way. I continued keeping hair on dut.

The reason i added ru  was its mode of action. Antagonizing receptors is a very nice adition to every antiandrogenic treatment.

----------


## RockyMtn

Thanks, Tenma.  That's great to hear things seem to be working for you.  Is the thickening you are seeing a thickening of existing hair, or new regrowth?  Or both?

And were you using the Kane premixed solution, or making your own?  Also, how long have you been sing RU?

----------


## Tenma

Thanks! is the premixed solution from anageninc (kane us and europe office i heard).  

Im a diffuse thinner so mainly existing hair but the change is really encouraging given i started ru last january.

----------


## burtandernie

I dont know the concentrations but RU is certainly much more powerful an AA than finasteride in terms of chemical potency I think. I might be wrong but I thought it could get near castration levels of androgens so I mean in theory its much more powerful than finasteride so I dont doubt it gets real results assuming the many things like purity, potency and so on are all correct. The androgen route cant do more than maintain though.
The power of the chemical though is what makes me nervous about using it.

----------


## Swooping

> What im seeing is a noticeable thickening all over my NW2. something hairline, which I find somewhat shocking because im using antiandrogens since 2005 and never really had much regrowth ( like most people i think) until i started using the ru.
> 
> I was on fin for 5 years and switched to dut in 2013. That change didnt really impact on any way. I continued keeping hair on dut.
> 
> The reason i added ru  was its mode of action. Antagonizing receptors is a very nice adition to every antiandrogenic treatment.


 You had improvement after using dutasteride? Are you still on dut now? I find it pretty interesting that some people even if they are maintaining on finasteride or dutasteride get improvement if they add a topical anti androgen.

----------


## PinotQ

> Thanks! is the premixed solution from anageninc (kane us and europe office i heard).  
> 
> Im a diffuse thinner so mainly existing hair but the change is really encouraging given i started ru last january.


 Tenma,  Do you mean January 2015 or January 2014?  And any idea how many mg's of ru you apply daily?  Once or twice?  Thanks

----------


## Tenma

> You had improvement after using dutasteride? Are you still on dut now? I find it pretty interesting that some people even if they are maintaining on finasteride or dutasteride get improvement if they add a topical anti androgen.


 Yep. Im still on dut now. 

About the improvement, i find it odd too. the only logical explanation i can think of is the hypothesis of T playing a role in mpb too.

----------


## Tenma

> Tenma, Do you mean January 2015 or January 2014? And any idea how many mg's of ru you apply daily? Once or twice? Thanks


 Started January 2015.  

I use the 5% concentration, 1 ml (50 mg) per day

----------


## diffuse

Do u guys get sides from RU (erection problems)? I'm using it with dermaroller 1mm since the end of january 60 mg (so it's 2 month now) daily in 2ml (ethanol/pg) to cover my entire diffuse scalp. In the begining  I had a bit of nut pain but after 2 weeks it was gone and had zero sides. About a week ago i started noticing erection problems. My hair is great i have amazing results i will post pictures next months. I don't want to give up, do you think by lowering the dose down to 40mg could help??? I missed 1 application because i wanted to see what happens with my libido and erection and the sides were gone. Would it be effective if i use it every other day?

Please don't ignore me guys.

Thanks

----------


## PinotQ

> Do u guys get sides from RU (erection problems)? I'm using it with dermaroller 1mm since the end of january 60 mg (so it's 2 month now) daily in 2ml (ethanol/pg) to cover my entire diffuse scalp. In the begining  I had a bit of nut pain but after 2 weeks it was gone and had zero sides. About a week ago i started noticing erection problems. My hair is great i have amazing results i will post pictures next months. I don't want to give up, do you think by lowering the dose down to 40mg could help??? I missed 1 application because i wanted to see what happens with my libido and erection and the sides were gone. Would it be effective if i use it every other day?
> 
> Please don't ignore me guys.
> 
> Thanks


 I have been on it for 5 weeks.  I started with 100mg and didn't really notice any libido or erectile issues but I have also never had any on Fin either.  I did notice a sort of mild buzz in my head that seemed to last an hour or so that wasn't really a big deal.  But that turned a little stronger and lasted longer at about the 3 week mark so I cut back to 60mg.  Not noticing it much at all now.  My hair seemed to perk up almost immediately after I started and there seemed to be a reduction in oil on my forehead and in my scalp.  But my hair seems a little thinner now and although I don't count shed hairs, I did notice a few more after I showered (at about the 3rd or 4th week) but nothing drastic.  Did you shed at all?  Just a guess but b/c of the 1 hour half-life, it would probably be most effective when applied daily. I'm still learning and analyzing and may try a very small second application at night at the hairline.  Also, where did you buy your ru?

----------


## diffuse

I got it from Kane. I've been trough a terrible shed form December to February  lost half of my hair, now a great regrowth the hairs are still short but pigmented strong one. I loose like 5 hairs in the shower and another 5 when i apply the RU and minox i guess it's normal. If the erection problem doesn't go away by reducing the dosage i'll consider taking some mild supplement in low doses which increases free testosterone levels or an aromatase inhibitor. I think it won't harm my hair because in my scalp the dht stays blocked, but i'm not a doctor. Sorry for my english im from hungary.

----------


## RockyMtn

> Thanks! is the premixed solution from anageninc (kane us and europe office i heard).  
> 
> Im a diffuse thinner so mainly existing hair but the change is really encouraging given i started ru last january.


 Do you feel like RU is showing benefits everywhere for you?  I ask because I have diffuse thinning as well, and have decided it's RU time for me.  Are you seeing positive things throughout the crown and front?

----------


## burtandernie

Just out of curiosity has anyone using RU ever had any hormone tests to see their androgen levels before/after using it?

----------


## Tenma

> Do you feel like RU is showing benefits everywhere for you?  I ask because I have diffuse thinning as well, and have decided it's RU time for me.  Are you seeing positive things throughout the crown and front?


 i use it only in the front, all throughout nw2-3 area.

----------


## Swooping

> Just out of curiosity has anyone using RU ever had any hormone tests to see their androgen levels before/after using it?


 Some people have. Do a google search you will find them. No changes were reported by the ones who tested it. Nonetheless non-steroidal anti-androgens don't alter hormones even if they go systemic, there might be only a slight increase in testosterone.

----------


## burtandernie

So assuming you get legit RU you think its pretty safe to use long term? I know it finished phase 2 in humans and no major issues. When people report heart issues and stuff like that it really makes me hesitant to try it. I just dont like the idea of internal drugs long term. It just seems very odd to me people getting fin like sides or heart issues from a drug that in theory only affects receptors and mainly acts locally to the scalp.

----------


## burtandernie

> Some people have. Do a google search you will find them. No changes were reported by the ones who tested it. Nonetheless non-steroidal anti-androgens don't alter hormones even if they go systemic, there might be only a slight increase in testosterone.


 So you think RU is safer to use long term than say fin? There are people that have been on RU already for at least a year so I guess its time tested a little

----------


## Swooping

> So you think RU is safer to use long term than say fin? There are people that have been on RU already for at least a year so I guess its time tested a little


 Can't say. Maybe, maybe not. The longest RU user is Elevation he is a 10 year user of RU at a dosage of 100-150mg a day. That's a very big dosage by the way. I find the mechanism of topical anti-androgens just more exciting. Yeah its definitely "time tested" by many users. If you really want to bring it far you could possibly test if RU accumulates systemic in your body by having your blood screened for RU and the metabolites. Anyway I can't say which one is safer. Nonetheless there is a huge chance you won't be having any problems at all with finasteride really. If you will, you could just quit and at least you would have tried it that way. The odds of you suffering from permanent side effects from it is incredibly small.

----------


## burtandernie

Its legal than to buy RU for research purposes from somewhere like http://www.aarc-chems.com? I dont want to get arrested by DEA or something for buying it. Although I am thinking fin might be a safer first shot than RU.

----------


## ghostrider

Yes ru is concodered as legal powder. It is not classiefied as a drug.

I have never run into issues with thekandshop or www.anageninc.com

Always Swift delivery  and no authorities knocking on my door.

You'd better starting of with fin though. It's what I did in first place.

----------


## lilpauly

Burtanderine why don't u try a custom topical fin product ?

----------


## lilpauly

https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...ed-help./page2

----------


## lilpauly

If you are afraid or worried about potential sides from consuming fin then I highly suggest u try a topical formulation from the welliness center or dr Klien

----------


## Vincent777

Hellouser are you still using RU bro? I am thinking of starting.

----------


## burtandernie

I would gladly use a topical fin but where do you get it and I dont have propecia script. I dont want anything mixed with it just the fin itself. I still have pretty minor loss I just dont want the dangers of internal drugs if possible and im not sure how strong fin is at the hair line and temples where I need. RU is probably better there.

----------


## lilpauly

> I would gladly use a topical fin but where do you get it and I dont have propecia script. I dont want anything mixed with it just the fin itself. I still have pretty minor loss I just dont want the dangers of internal drugs if possible and im not sure how strong fin is at the hair line and temples where I need. RU is probably better there.


  U can get it from de Klien office I'm sure . Tbe welliness center can get U a script

----------


## burtandernie

Where is the wellness center or klien office? I dont have to physically go there right? I think topical fin is safer than oral although probably goes systemic to a less extent still

----------


## lilpauly

> Where is the wellness center or klien office? I dont have to physically go there right? I think topical fin is safer than oral although probably goes systemic to a less extent still


  no U don't go there . I know for dr Klien u fill out a paper and U get approved . Wellingness center the same thing

----------


## burtandernie

Actually maybe I will go see my local doc pretty soon and ask for fin. Once I get the script maybe I can see about getting a topical. Who makes the topical version of it or where would I go? Topical fin should be a readily available alternative to oral IMO.

----------


## nliyan25

Do you guys think I would be able to premix RU before traveling and take it on carry on luggage?

----------


## RU58841

I just traveled with it twice (in the US) with no problems. Just make sure you adhere to the TSA rules: 


"containers must be 3.4 ounces or less; stored in a 1 quart/liter zip-top bag; 1 zip-top bag per person. Larger amounts of non-medicinal liquids, gels, and aerosols must be placed in checked baggage."

----------


## nliyan25

> I just traveled with it twice (in the US) with no problems. Just make sure you adhere to the TSA rules: 
> 
> 
> "containers must be 3.4 ounces or less; stored in a 1 quart/liter zip-top bag; 1 zip-top bag per person. Larger amounts of non-medicinal liquids, gels, and aerosols must be placed in checked baggage."


 Silly question: a ziploc bag is the same thing as a zip-top bag, correct?

----------


## nliyan25

> Silly question: a ziploc bag is the same thing as a zip-top bag, correct?


 Another question, did you mix it before you took it with you traveling? I'm mixing it with PG and Everclear before I go on my trip.

----------


## RU58841

> Silly question: a ziploc bag is the same thing as a zip-top bag, correct?


 


> Another question, did you mix it before you took it with you traveling? I'm mixing it with PG and Everclear before I go on my trip.


 I just put mine in a ziploc bag, I guess it's the same thing. Although I realized afterward that I had accidentally left a big tube of hair paste stuff in my bag (not the ziploc bag) and they didn't notice or say anything about it, so I wouldn't worry too much. Only things I've ever had questioned were a full bottle of water and once a big bottle of aloe.

As for the mixing, yeah, I had mixed it before traveling. I wanted to try taking a small amount of the powder to see if it would be a problem (which I'm sure it wouldn't be, I saw a guy mention taking his in powder form through the airport before), but just for convenience I premixed it (in KB solution).

Let me know if you notice a difference in libido after a few days of using it premixed? I felt like mine was higher after using a few days of RU premixed instead of mixed fresh and applied immediately like I usually do.

Enjoy the trip!

----------


## ghostrider

Hello mates,

Finally got the test results back from the PHD. She run couple tests to determine the authenticity of ru58841. I'm currently 2 years on the ru58841, It worked great but had slightly stronger smell, so i had to be sure about the purity!

The batch is from kane and purchased in February.



*



			
				Hello Kevin, 

My utmost apologies for the drop in communication.  I have been busy in professional and personal spectres.
To answer your question I am a university professor and organic research chemist at a State University and just found out my partner has epilepsy two weeks ago.  It is the end of the semester,
 so very busy in this regard, and have been in and out of the hospital over the last two weeks regarding my partner's condition.

I have run the spectra.  It is beautiful!   Definitely 99% pure or more.  I will reduce this rate to $150.00 because I did not keep my word on timing. 
 Let me know if you would still like me to send the spectra and analysis summary.


All the Best, 


Jennifer
			
		

* 

analysis report


page1


page 2

----------


## diffuse

Have you maintained with RU? Are you on fin also or RU alone and how much do you use ?  :Smile:  

Thanks!

----------


## diffuseloser

Thanks ghostrider. Good to know Kanes gear is still legit as that's where I consistently buy my RU from.

----------


## Illusion

Would 50% propylene glycol / 30% alcohol / 20% water do the job as a vehicle for RU (low dosage, 50mg / 1ml)?

----------


## diffuseloser

Not sure about the water mate. RU is only very partially soluble, if anything, in water, so it's best to use as little as possible. Better to up the propylene glycol to at least 70% and remove the water altogether or just use cheap minox as the vehicle. RU is the only thing that has really worked for me.

----------


## Illusion

> Not sure about the water mate. RU is only very partially soluble, if anything, in water, so it's best to use as little as possible. Better to up the propylene glycol to at least 70% and remove the water altogether or just use cheap minox as the vehicle. RU is the only thing that has really worked for me.


 I know man, water is shit but I asked because my kirkland minox (AKA my cheap minox) exists of exactly those things in those concentrations but for some reason it doesn't do its job as a vehicle very good (that's likely due to the water). I have asked before in this thread about mixing RU and minox, but so far I haven't figured out if RU in minox does its job as well as RU in a steady 70/30 alcohol/pg vehicle (something I used to do before minox).

I'm glad to hear RU is working for you mate. I myself am not having that much succes with my regime or so it seems... It still seems like my hair line is thinning + receding and my whole scalp is itching like f*ck, even though I'm on 1mg fin + RU (low dose) + minox + nizoral. Here's to hoping the itching is actually from my cheap minox haha

----------


## diffuseloser

Is there really that much water in Kirkland? That's the shit I use also. I thought it was closer to 5%? Then again, I haven't bothered to read the label. It seems to be working for me in that I haven't seemed to lose any more hair. The first couple of months I was on it I had surprisingly good regrowth, but that has stopped dead in it's tracks. I use minox as a vehicle out of pure laziness, but I do add a wee but of isopropyl to help things along. Thinking of changing the vehicle but it would become a pain in the ass to apply minox and RU daily as separate solutions.

Never had any issues with itching. I use Nizoral 3x per week and it definitely helps with that. I'm surprised you aren't having good results if you're on fin too. I'd never touch the stuff myself. I'm just hoping to hold on tight with RU until, hopefully, one of these many treatments we're all talking about actually turns out to do something for once. They can't all fail forever, right? Something's gotta give.

----------


## diffuse

I don't know if it has happened to anyone else, but Kane is f *cking with my order. Ordered 2 weeks and still nothing i wrote 10+ emails they always say "we'll ship you today or tomorrow''.. They gave me a tracking number which is not working then they said sorry we've mad a mistake. I'm from Europe last time they shipped from their office in france. Now they finally admitted that "we are out of stock" but we will ship it today... that was the day before yesterday.. I'm running out of RU my hair is finally good and I don't want to loose ground..

----------


## joely

Where in Europe are you? If you are in the UK I have some spare in powder form that may see you through until James shipment arrives

----------


## diffuse

I'm from Hungary..

----------


## Illusion

> Is there really that much water in Kirkland? That's the shit I use also. I thought it was closer to 5%? Then again, I haven't bothered to read the label. It seems to be working for me in that I haven't seemed to lose any more hair. The first couple of months I was on it I had surprisingly good regrowth, but that has stopped dead in it's tracks. I use minox as a vehicle out of pure laziness, but I do add a wee but of isopropyl to help things along. *Thinking of changing the vehicle but it would become a pain in the ass to apply minox and RU daily as separate solutions*.
> 
> Never had any issues with itching. I use Nizoral 3x per week and it definitely helps with that. I'm surprised you aren't having good results if you're on fin too. I'd never touch the stuff myself. I'm just hoping to hold on tight with RU until, hopefully, one of these many treatments we're all talking about actually turns out to do something for once. They can't all fail forever, right? Something's gotta give.


 Regarding the bolded, my thoughts exactly. I used 1 ml minox + 0.4ml ethanol + 0.1ml pg (so 1.5ml total) as a vehicle for my RU for a while and it was decent, only problem was that I ran out of RU a lot quicker as I needed more RU to get the same concentration. I could make this vehicle again with the same proportions of minox:ethanol :Stick Out Tongue: g for a total of 1ml but the problem I then have is that there wouldn't be that much minox in it anymore (well, it's 'only' 0.33ml less but still, don't really wanna go below 1ml minox).


And yes, I believe there's that much water in Kirkland. You can find this information anywhere on the bottle though, I googled it and multiple sites said that Kirkland contained 30% alcohol, 50% propylene glycol and (purified) water. It didn't say how much water but as there weren't any other compounds described, I naturally assumed that it had to be 20% (purified) water.

Btw I'm surprised too! I guess it's just very aggressive mpb. I'll ride out the 1 full year as recommended but I'm already thinking of switching to dut, even though I'm not a big fan of DUT. I can also increase my RU dosage because I'm using a low dosage atm (RU is kind of expensive and I'm just a poor student), that might help too. It feels good to have at least a few backup plans, even though those backup plans aren't the most desirable ones.  

But like you said, let's hope new things come out soon!

----------


## hairbackpls

Hey quick question

I can't get 95% alcohol in my country without prescription.. What would u suggest me to use as a vehicle for RU? KB or minoxidil? or is there other way?

I could also order ready solution from anageninc wich is 8% RU in PG+Ethanol, but i have read many bad things about premixed solutions...

pls halp :,D

----------


## joely

> Hey quick question
> 
> I can't get 95% alcohol in my country without prescription.. What would u suggest me to use as a vehicle for RU? KB or minoxidil? or is there other way?
> 
> I could also order ready solution from anageninc wich is 8% RU in PG+Ethanol, but i have read many bad things about premixed solutions...
> 
> pls halp :,D


 I use anagenincs 3% solution, I order two bottles at a time and its working really well for me

----------


## Illusion

> And yes, I believe there's that much water in Kirkland. You can*'t* find this information anywhere on the bottle though, I googled it and multiple sites said that Kirkland contained 30% alcohol, 50% propylene glycol and (purified) water. It didn't say how much water but as there weren't any other compounds described, I naturally assumed that it had to be 20% (purified) water.


 whoops, typo. Just for clarification (couldn't edit my post anymore)

----------


## VegetaDBZ

I am on finasteride for 3 year now but my hair in the front is receding.

 I see that RU is very popular these days...

Anyone who is on both fin+RU..?

----------


## reedstiffer

> I use anagenincs 3% solution, I order two bottles at a time and its working really well for me


 joely could you point me in the direction to purchase that?

----------


## Illusion

> I am on finasteride for 3 year now but my hair in the front is receding.
> 
>  I see that RU is very popular these days...
> 
> Anyone who is on both fin+RU..?


 
I'm on both fin and RU but I've been too short on both to really say anything about it... Been on fin for about 2.5 months and on RU for about 5 months (although last month I didn't really keep up with it...)

Anyway I haven't really seen a lot of results as of yet but it's too soon to say anything, so I can't really help you.

Have you considered getting on dutasteride instead of going fin+RU?

----------


## burtandernie

The thing I find more appealing about RU is just that I can use however much I want in specific spots like the temples or where there is tiny hair without affecting anything else. Although I would admit fin is much less a hassle to use especially where you have hair still.

----------


## Agustin Araujo

Thank you so much for this RU58841 guide hellouser, it helped me out a lot.

----------


## Binford

Hi fellas, I'm a newbie so I'm sorry if my question is a dumb one. First thx hellouser for the wicked write up.  I'm looking to get on this as right now im only on minox and a shampoo. First question, are there reported sides from RU? And from looking at the picture and making my shopping list, i get what everything there is except cb-03-01. Any help would be great and any info on group buys of ru or seti would be even better. Thx folks

----------


## Binford

Sorry i just realized this thread is a bit old, if guys are still using RU please let me know if you experienced any sides. Thx

----------


## Seuxin

Hello,

I would like to know a thing.
Today, is there a possibility to create a one-month supply batch with good stability ?

For example, if i mix RU in a eth/pg/water, or, in a minox bootle, for one month ( 60ml for example).

If i stored the bootle in the fridge or a freezer, the ru will be good for one month ? Or i definitively need to make a batch for 3-4 days ?

Thanks  :Smile:

----------


## burtandernie

People in here say RU doesnt stay stable long but most of the sites selling premade RU solutions say its fine for 6 months in a dark cool place. I guess I would believe the guys selling it. 6 months is a whole lot longer than a week some people claim.
Where are safe places to get it? Kane and anagen but what about aarc chems that is cheaper? Its legal to buy it and I dont have to be licensed chemist? I dont want to go to jail for getting RU

----------


## Seuxin

Yes, but the real question is to know if these premade RU have the same efficacity....
We don't know i think, no ?

----------


## ghostrider

> Hello mates,
> 
> Finally got the test results back from the PHD. She run couple tests to determine the authenticity of ru58841. I'm currently 2 years on the ru58841, It worked great but had slightly stronger smell, so i had to be sure about the purity!
> 
> The batch is from kane and purchased in February.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


> Have you maintained with RU? Are you on fin also or RU alone and how much do you use ?  
> 
> Thanks!


 

thanks mates! Fin was the first thing my dermatologist prescribed me, you can find my experience in here;


https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showth...l=1#post200320





> Hi great topic. My dermatologist prescribed me propecia 3 years ago but I started developing puffy nipples shortly after. I've decided to drop fina and started experimenting with ru58841
> 
> I have been using ru58841 5% k&b from kane for almost 2 years now, and hair is still doing better.
> 
> My regime is ru minox +biotin tabs. I will add oc000459-ethanol next month for more regrowth
> 
> Looking forward to oc000459 and sepip.

----------


## VegetaDBZ

> I'm on both fin and RU but I've been too short on both to really say anything about it... Been on fin for about 2.5 months and on RU for about 5 months (although last month I didn't really keep up with it...)
> 
> Anyway I haven't really seen a lot of results as of yet but it's too soon to say anything, so I can't really help you.
> 
> Have you considered getting on dutasteride instead of going fin+RU?


 No.

I read that RU is good at hairline and it is where I recede slowly currently.....

So I go to add RU  :Big Grin:   :Big Grin:

----------


## burtandernie

The nice thing with RU is you can use it just at say the temples without risk of say shedding like hell all over your head with say propecia or some systemic AA. Although anything can happen with a purely experimental chemical I guess.
Its just a shame RU never was studied more fully or come out for acne or anything. Customs im sure is happy to see white powder of an unknown substance like RU heck they ripped apart a shampoo I bought from a different country. Those guys are ruthless but I cant blame them. I dont need the DEA kicking in my door because I got some unknown chem from china.

----------


## burtandernie

What is the legality of buying RU online where it comes from China as a research chemical? I Mean is it perfectly legal then to buy it in US?

----------


## ghostrider

Hello mates,
Anyone tried bio? Kane offers it on his site : http://www.thekaneshop.com/special-p...t-agonist.html

I read it's much more potent then smo..

Combination with ru58841 + minoxidil + oc000459 + igf1 should give stunning regrowth

----------


## burtandernie

Does anyone know if buying RU then is perfectly legal say in US? I just read some stuff that research chems are kind of a grey area of the law. I mean RU is not a controlled or banned chemical so its not considered illegal.

----------


## ghostrider

Hello mate,

I received ru many times without a problem. It's shipped from USA now days. So. No customs.

The law allow you to import research chemicals without restrictions. Lucky us.


My hair is still improving after 2 years usage. My guess ru stops inflammation and recover old hairs somehow.

----------


## burtandernie

I have no doubts RU works, but I still debate some whether fin or RU is safer to use. I read a story about a guy who had heart problems he said were from RU. What organs have androgen receptors in the body does the heart? I know prostate, hair, skin, but are there others? It makes me a little nervous what systemic RU would do all over the body or the metabolites after RU breaks down that last much longer than RU itself.
RU is androgen antagonist and a mighty powerful one at that but something that strong going systemic could be bad.

----------


## Seuxin

If you don't want systemic effect use RUM instead of RU !

----------


## diffuse

Ghostrider how much RU are you using?

Thanks

----------


## RU58841

> If you don't want systemic effect use RUM instead of RU !


 But where do you get RUM? I realized I missed the group buy on that other site and now I'm curious because I don't see it anywhere.

----------


## burtandernie

Does anyone know what organs or where androgen receptors are in the body that RU could effect? Are they found in the heart or other vital organs?

----------


## Justinian

> Does anyone know what organs or where androgen receptors are in the body that RU could effect? Are they found in the heart or other vital organs?


 Look up androgen insensitivity syndrome if you want to see the worst possible case scenario/

----------


## lukey

Is there any difference between mono propylene glycol and just propylene glycol? Is the mono version ok to use?

----------


## champpy

I have no idea Lukey. Ive been asking the same thing and nobody has really given me a definitive answer. I just ordered some FOOD GRADE pg, so hope it works.

----------


## burtandernie

I just read some study saying the heart has two androgen receptors one for T and one for DHT. Its pretty risky IMO to take a chance that you could alter receptors in heart cells long term. Maybe that cant happen or makes no difference but its scary to think about in a drug with little safety information. I am probably gonna go fin if my doc gives prescription but RU sounds so good in theory.

----------


## Plan C

> I just read some study saying the heart has two androgen receptors one for T and one for DHT. Its pretty risky IMO to take a chance that you could alter receptors in heart cells long term. Maybe that cant happen or makes no difference but its scary to think about in a drug with little safety information. I am probably gonna go fin if my doc gives prescription but RU sounds so good in theory.


 Cheers for ruining my Sunday.

----------


## SOTF

> I just read some study saying the heart has two androgen receptors one for T and one for DHT. Its pretty risky IMO to take a chance that you could alter receptors in heart cells long term. Maybe that cant happen or makes no difference but its scary to think about in a drug with little safety information. I am probably gonna go fin if my doc gives prescription but RU sounds so good in theory.


 Do more reading. At least get the correct information. You're running in circles. Do you have a problem committing to things in all areas of life? At some point, calculated risk must be taken.

The Guevedoces of the Dominican, whom are pseudohermaphrodites, lack the DHT enzyme. They are born as females and with the testosterone surge during puberty, turn into functioning males. There is no difference health wise, heart wise between them and men with DHT surging through their veins. The only difference? They have no hairline recession and can't grow beards worth a damn.

----------


## win200

Two quick RU questions:

I ordered a batch from Kane around 6-8 months ago, then put it in the freezer and forgot about it.  Is it still good?

Also, I know I read advice somewhere about whether to apply RU before or after minox (I used foam).  Can anyone remind me how to stack these treatments?

Thanks!

----------


## RU58841

> Two quick RU questions:
> 
> I ordered a batch from Kane around 6-8 months ago, then put it in the freezer and forgot about it.  Is it still good?


 Yeah. Forms from Kane say "Date of EXP one year." Also, the last batch I got (in January) came with forms identifying it as "ROS RU" and said that it would stay good for a year even at room temperature. Not sure which you have but if you had it frozen the whole time, it should be fine.




> Also, I know I read advice somewhere about whether to apply RU before or after minox (I used foam).  Can anyone remind me how to stack these treatments?


 Documentation for (liquid) minoxidil says to keep the hair and scalp dry for 4 hours after applying. RU solution usually dries in seconds, so you'd think RU then minoxidil afterward. Not sure what vehicle you're using for your RU though, if it's K&B that has like a film to it that maybe could interfere with the minoxidil, but that's just speculation. 

Personally I use the minoxidil early, take a shower later and wash my scalp, then use the RU afterward because I'm just not sure.

----------


## champpy

Can someone tell me if I did something wrong. Just applied my first RU batch tonight. Afterward my hair felt slightly sticky and coarse. It almost looked like it had a white tint to it as well. Is this just residue from the RU solution sticking to my hair or could there be something else wrong with what I did?
Thanks for any suggestions

----------


## RU58841

> Can someone tell me if I did something wrong. Just applied my first RU batch tonight. Afterward my hair felt slightly sticky and coarse. It almost looked like it had a white tint to it as well. Is this just residue from the RU solution sticking to my hair or could there be something else wrong with what I did?
> Thanks for any suggestions


 That sounds consistent with how it is for me, so I don't think you're doing it wrong.

----------


## cuprous

> If you don't want systemic effect use RUM instead of RU !


 Sorry but could you (or anyone else) elaborate on that?  I know RUM is RU myristate which I've read is the "prodrug" version of RU but I have no idea what that means.

Everything else I've read is that there's no good vehicle for it.  Plus it doesn't seem like anyone sells it so perhaps it's all a moot point.

----------


## Frankthetank

few random questions... if you discontinue using RU will you lose any progress you made on it (is it similar in that way to rogaine/finasteride)? Also, is there generally a shedding period with it?

----------


## RU58841

> Sorry but could you (or anyone else) elaborate on that?  I know RUM is RU myristate which I've read is the "prodrug" version of RU but I have no idea what that means.
> 
> Everything else I've read is that there's no good vehicle for it.  Plus it doesn't seem like anyone sells it so perhaps it's all a moot point.


 Yeah, been trying to figure this out too, but I don't see people raving about it. And I don't see it sold anywhere either. I guess if it worked nobody would be using the non-myristate version.

----------


## RU58841

> few random questions... if you discontinue using RU will you lose any progress you made on it (is it similar in that way to rogaine/finasteride)? Also, is there generally a shedding period with it?


 I'm not sure if you'll lose progress, I'll guess yes just because it seems to be that way with everything else. (Does anyone know the scientific explanation for this? Never did understand why this happens; reflex hyperandrogenicity?)

As for shedding, I don't think I've seen anyone report shedding upon starting RU. Most people seem to report a reduction in shedding very quickly upon beginning it.

----------


## VegetaDBZ

I got question.... 

What dosage do most people take.....?? 

50 milligram?

----------


## Frankthetank

Thanks for the reply RU58841.

I am definitely considering using RU but I just began Dut yesterday (made the switch after a year of finasteride). It is probably logical for me to wait a few months before experimenting with RU anyways to be able to isolate/determine the effects dut has on me

----------


## dus

Would Spectral DNCN - Nanoxidil be a suitable vehicle for RU application? Can't stand minox and am willing to give this a try.

----------


## RU58841

> I got question.... 
> 
> What dosage do most people take.....?? 
> 
> 50 milligram?


 30mg-100mg/day seems to be the range. I don't see many (if any) people going over 100mg. Start low and increase it to see how you react!




> I am definitely considering using RU but I just began Dut yesterday (made the switch after a year of finasteride). It is probably logical for me to wait a few months before experimenting with RU anyways to be able to isolate/determine the effects dut has on me


 Good strategy, I wish I were that patient when it comes to this stuff :[




> Would Spectral DNCN - Nanoxidil be a suitable vehicle for RU application? Can't stand minox and am willing to give this a try.


 What's in that? I know that RU doesn't really dissolve in solvents with water. People have mixed it successfully in Neogenic though, so if the composition of that is similar to Spectral, then maybe...

----------


## VegetaDBZ

> 30mg-100mg/day seems to be the range. I don't see many (if any) people going over 100mg. Start low and increase it to see how you react!


 Thx..!! I got RU delivered only wait for weighing scale now....

Will start with 50mg a day.

Will let know how it goes...!

----------


## xLeox

just curious regarding what % do you guys are using RU at. I've started it in December, one month 7% and then 5%.  Been working great for 5 months, now It seems it lost some effect.  I was thinking of going back to preparing it at 7%, or even a higher %.   I know a guy who tested different % and found out ru worked for him at 10% and he has been using it at that percentage for a while by now. anybody in the same situation that upped the percentage after a few months and got any stable improuvements?

----------


## RU58841

Hm, what makes you say it's lost effectiveness? Increase in shedding or something? Any change in side effects?

----------


## xLeox

> Hm, what makes you say it's lost effectiveness? Increase in shedding or something? Any change in side effects?


 I noticed side effects only for a few days back when I started ru.  I haven't seen any worth mentioning shedding, but I noticed my right temple is getting worse, returning to the same situation before I started ru.  my guess is that after some months, just like any other lotion,it loses effectiveness. same thing happened with minoxidil + antiandrogens lotion (which I'm still using), but its effectiveness lasted way longer than ru.

----------


## champpy

xLeon, can I ask how long before you noticed any benefit from using RU?

general RU question...I ordered my RU from Kaneshop, and noticed that it has a slight scent to it. I want to say it almost smells like chlorine??  Is that normal and has anyone else noticed that too?

----------


## ALM

I stay relatively low profile on this site but I have to agree with xLeox.  I've been on RU now for over 8 months and what benefit I was getting from it in the first 4 months has reversed to more shedding versus growth.  It's definitely not the answer we've all been waiting for, but I'll stay true to the regimen for another 6 months to see what happens.

----------


## xLeox

> xLeon, can I ask how long before you noticed any benefit from using RU?


 almost immediately. besides stopping the  shedding phase, rather than a real regrowth, I think RU it made my hair thicker  and stronger.




> I stay relatively low profile on this site but I have to agree with xLeox. I've been on RU now for over 8 months and what benefit I was getting from it in the first 4 months has reversed to more shedding versus growth. It's definitely not the answer we've all been waiting for, but I'll stay true to the regimen for another 6 months to see what happens.


 what % are you using RU at? I think the only way (I hope I'm wrong) to get back those progress is upping the %. considering all the downsides (chance of having sides, spending even more money on it)  if that gave me guarantee to stop for a consistent amount of time (I'm talking years, not months) the shedding process, I'd be down for it. but  what if after 6 months, things get worse again? I'm not sure it's worth doing it then.

----------


## diffuseloser

I'm in the same boat. I had almost immediate results with RU. Serious thickening of existing hair and coverage improved dramatically. Now, almost a year later, I'm back to where I was before. Maybe even worse. Scalp is showing and hair is thin all over the top. Hairline is looking pretty bad too. Depressing as hell. I'm debating what step to take from here. An increase dose? A vehicle change? Both? Shave it off and drop all treatments? I'm not getting my hopes up for any new miracle treatment either. I can't take fin so my options are very limited. I think I will up dosage to 50+mg but I haven't decided on new vehicle yet. Its between neogenic and ethanol/PG.

----------


## diffuse

> I'm in the same boat. I had almost immediate results with RU. Serious thickening of existing hair and coverage improved dramatically. Now, almost a year later, I'm back to where I was before. Maybe even worse. Scalp is showing and hair is thin all over the top. Hairline is looking pretty bad too. Depressing as hell. I'm debating what step to take from here. An increase dose? A vehicle change? Both? Shave it off and drop all treatments? I'm not getting my hopes up for any new miracle treatment either. I can't take fin so my options are very limited. I think I will up dosage to 50+mg but I haven't decided on new vehicle yet. Its between neogenic and ethanol/PG.


 Have you tried low dosage of fin? maybe 0,5 mg EOD or 1mg 3x times a week?

I'm using it for 2 weeks, 1mg finpecia ED without problems.

----------


## champpy

Wow this got depressing real quick. So nobody is really having great success with RU? And if my shedding hasnt improved by now then its not looking like this will be of any benefit for my situation. What a bummer of a day... Here i was hoping RU would at least buy me a cpl years worth of time

----------


## diffuseloser

Yeah, well I have a couple of months supply of Dr Reddy's fin in my cupboard which I haven't touched except for 1/4 of one pill 0.25mg and sadly I freaked out and haven't touched the stuff since. Psychologically, I am not a good candidate for finasteride. Don't want to take the risk even though I know I would probably respond well. I may change my mind and have been avoiding reading the horror stories. RU definitely works but I have come to the stage where I have to evaluate whether I should continue using it and if so, how will I prepare and apply it. I will definitely need to increase the dosage.

----------


## champpy

I believe this is the same thing that Hellhouser (I think it was him, might have been another poster) documented happened to him too. His hair would improve for a month or so, then shed and thin out and then regrow. It seems like it would phase in and out of working

----------


## xLeox

> I'm debating what step to take from here. An increase dose? A vehicle change? Both? Shave it off and drop all treatments? I'm not getting my hopes up for any new miracle treatment either. I can't take fin so my options are very limited. I think I will up dosage to 50+mg but I haven't decided on new vehicle yet. Its between neogenic and ethanol/PG.


 If you up the dosage, you're very likely to get improuvements again. if you do it, keep us posted on the outcome. I would rather up the ru dose than take dutasteride anyway.  if I was granted me that from upping the dose from 5% to 8%, I would regain improuvements and keep the situation stable for 2 years at least, I would do it then.  cause this is all about buying as much time as possible.  but hey, what if after 6 months, it loses effectiveness again. that would be frustrating. vehicle related, I use ethanol, I think it's totally proper. plus, having to mix ru everyday with neogenic would be a total bummer.

----------


## brocktherock

> If you up the dosage, you're very likely to get improuvements again. if you do it, keep us posted on the outcome. I would rather up the ru dose than take dutasteride anyway.  if I was granted me that from upping the dose from 5% to 8%, I would regain improuvements and keep the situation stable for 2 years at least, I would do it then.  cause this is all about buying as much time as possible.  but hey, what if after 6 months, it loses effectiveness again. that would be frustrating. vehicle related, I use ethanol, I think it's totally proper. plus, having to mix ru everyday with neogenic would be a total bummer.


  I use finasteride with RU and hopefully it stabilizes my results. I just switched to minox foam and I started shedding again, Im hoping its not from RU.

----------


## robodoc

Dude, I feel for you.  Losing your hair is devasting to many of us.  Here is my thoughts on your dilemma.

No matter how dismal your results may appear, continue what you are taking.   We all know the best products, I use that word loosely, are Fin, Minox, RU, RPC,supplements, new stem cell products and of course a good diet, vitamins.   I use Nizoral shampoo, I use CAFFEINe and most of what I have mentioned.   I still have some hair but who really knows if it all my efforts  work.

My personal experience, one year, was that RU did nothing for me.   I can't explain the side effects, it was hard to pinpoint but seemed to affect my libido.  I know the results are suppose to be dose related, meaning using a high dose may work whereas a low dose may not. I saw no improvement at 25mg/ml.

You may slow your hair loss until something like AAPE turns out to a winner and using the aforementioned in conjuction with AAPE may help to regrow some hair.   I don't read everything here but it looks like STEM cells is best remedy at the moment.   As I said in another post, our best treatment options are the kitchen sink strategy, in other words try all viable products.  I don't mean the experimental junk, I mean products that have SOME success in the literature or medical studies.   Hang in there.

----------


## VegetaDBZ

Just started out RU.....for half week now....

Hope it will thicken up hair and stabilize more..

Zero sides till now which is a good thing....!

----------


## Dench57

Noob question regarding the premade solutions:

Kane's 50mg/ml solution - roughly how long would this bottle last if I'm just applying on temples/frontal hairline? At first I thought it was roughly 2ml application a day, like with Fluridil or whatever....but I see people saying they're using 20-30mg/ml a day? How the hell are people affording like £30 a day? Or is buying powder and mixing yourself the only affordable option?

----------


## Dench57

EDIT - Deleted double-post

----------


## Illusion

> Noob question regarding the premade solutions:
> 
> Kane's 50mg/ml solution - roughly how long would this bottle last if I'm just applying on temples/frontal hairline? At first I thought it was roughly 2ml application a day, like with Fluridil or whatever....but I see people saying they're using 20-30mg/ml a day? How the hell are people affording like £30 a day? Or is buying powder and mixing yourself the only affordable option?


 20-30mg/ml says nothing about the amount of solution someone is using, it just means that for every 1 ml solution they use, there's 20-30mg RU in it.

I think most people use an amount of 1.0ml - 2.0ml. It really depends on how big of an area you need to cover with your RU solution and how efficient you can use the RU. With the latter I simply mean that people who apply a topical for the first time usually spread the stuff out unevenly or something like that. But you'll get the hang of it soon, so don't worry about that.

If you use 2.0 ml a day at a strength of 50mg/ml, it means you'll use 100mg RU a day which means one batch of 10g will last you 100 days. I don't know how much it will cost you as this will depend on shipping costs, but for this would be approx. $1.80/day.

----------


## Dench57

> 20-30mg/ml says nothing about the amount of solution someone is using, it just means that for every 1 ml solution they use, there's 20-30mg RU in it.
> 
> I think most people use an amount of 1.0ml - 2.0ml. It really depends on how big of an area you need to cover with your RU solution and how efficient you can use the RU. With the latter I simply mean that people who apply a topical for the first time usually spread the stuff out unevenly or something like that. But you'll get the hang of it soon, so don't worry about that.
> 
> If you use 2.0 ml a day at a strength of 50mg/ml, it means you'll use 100mg RU a day which means one batch of 10g will last you 100 days. I don't know how much it will cost you as this will depend on shipping costs, but for this would be approx. $1.80/day.


 Yeah that makes sense, silly me. thanks

----------


## ghostrider

Hello mates! 

anyone combining OC-ethanol + RU58841? it looks like its cutting the shedding further down to 15-25 hairs a day, hair still improving even before starting OC.

----------


## ghostrider

I want to know if people are having success mixing RU with Lipogain.

----------


## Swooping

> I want to know if people are having success mixing RU with Lipogain.


 Many vehicles will do I guess as long as there is enough ethanol in the vehicle to dissolve the RU. All a matter of preference.

----------


## Pate

> Many vehicles will do I guess as long as there is enough ethanol in the vehicle to dissolve the RU. All a matter of preference.


 I've been using RU dissolved in generic minox and it's not too bad, but nowhere near as good as the premixed stuff in KB. It seems to dissolve okay, but when I apply it, after it dries it starts to come out of solution and leaves a grainy powder on my scalp. It's not a lot of powder compared to the amount of RU going into it, but given how expensive the stuff is I don't want any left behind!

I think I will need to buy some Everclear and dissolve the RU in that, and then transfer that to the minox. I'm thinking if I had 0.5 mL of ethanol to 1ml of minox and then apply 1.5 mL per day, that should be enough ethanol to dissolve it properly. 

On the plus side, the combined RU and minox is working really well at stopping my shedding, as well as nuking my oily scalp.

----------


## YY02

hey bro  where did you get CB-03-01？why cant i found on Kane

----------


## YY02

hey bro  where did you get CB-03-01？why cant i found on Kane

----------


## Soonbald

hi guys, im just a bit concerned..I have been using RU at 100-150mg a day for 1 month now and a guy on Youtube told me that he read a study about rabbits going blind on RU and a human test subject had "no side effects" but when the doctor checked his Eyes his "retina" was damaged exactly what happaned to the rabbits... I dont know how high dose he took or for how long...I cant find the study anywhere on google...but the guy told me what to write on google to read more about this...but I just cant find it.. this is exactly what the guy wrote to me-------------

The problem is on the paper the user of RU stated he was suffering 'no sides at all', it wasent until Dr Richards ran tests on his eyes and showed the chemical had damaged the structure of his retina attachment, exactly the same as shown in the rabbit trials. Basically once you experience sides, its too late already. Look up 'RU58841 Dr Richards safety Results' on google to read more, published this year!. The danger of the stuff was originally put to attention in the initial french trials years ago, hence the reason it was never made for commercial sale and never investigated further as a legitimate treatment.

----------


## Soonbald

hi guys... there is a guy on Youtube typing this to me "New papers were released about why RU was put 'on the shelf', for causing rabbits to go blind in trials. The same traits were seen in human subjects so the testing was halted before permanent blindness occurred. Dr Roberts has put out a warning stating anyone who has used topical RU should visit a doctor immediately. 

then he typed this to me 


The problem is on the paper the user of RU stated he was suffering 'no sides at all', it wasent until Dr Richards ran tests on his eyes and showed the chemical had damaged the structure of his retina attachment, exactly the same as shown in the rabbit trials. Basically once you experience sides, its too late already. Look up 'RU58841 Dr Richards safety Results' on google to read more, published this year!. The danger of the stuff was originally put to attention in the initial french trials years ago, hence the reason it was never made for commercial sale and never investigated further as a legitimate treatment. 



BUT I CANT FIND THIS STUDY ANYWHERE ON GOOGLE???? WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS??? IM SCARED BEEN USING 100-150MG A DAY FOR 1 MONTH NOW..

----------


## diffuseloser

Wow, scary stuff. Don't panic. If it bothers you, just stop using RU immediately. As a user of RU, I'd like confirmation on this.

----------


## Swooping

Thousands of users tried RU58841 already, actual human subjects. Ranging from a few days of usage to the longest user I know who has been using it for 10 years. Many dosages have been tried too. If it were to cause blindness you would already know. Simple logical thinking, no? 

Also I can't find any information about that. I'm not even aware they tested RU58841 on rabbits. They did  test it on mice and a macaque model and then followed with human clinical trials till phase 2.

----------


## cuprous

> hi guys... there is a guy on Youtube typing this to me "New papers were released about why RU was put 'on the shelf', for causing rabbits to go blind in trials. The same traits were seen in human subjects so the testing was halted before permanent blindness occurred. Dr Roberts has put out a warning stating anyone who has used topical RU should visit a doctor immediately. 
> 
> then he typed this to me 
> 
> 
> The problem is on the paper the user of RU stated he was suffering 'no sides at all', it wasent until Dr Richards ran tests on his eyes and showed the chemical had damaged the structure of his retina attachment, exactly the same as shown in the rabbit trials. Basically once you experience sides, its too late already. Look up 'RU58841 Dr Richards safety Results' on google to read more, published this year!. The danger of the stuff was originally put to attention in the initial french trials years ago, hence the reason it was never made for commercial sale and never investigated further as a legitimate treatment. 
> 
> 
> 
> BUT I CANT FIND THIS STUDY ANYWHERE ON GOOGLE???? WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS??? IM SCARED BEEN USING 100-150MG A DAY FOR 1 MONTH NOW..


 Sounds like internet bullshit.  Some guy chatting with you on youtube...

----------


## Soonbald

but the thing is that this "guy" used topicall RU for 3 months..and then he told me he got numbness in his chest and arm that lasted for a few months until disappearing alltogether.. this was his warning to me at first..but I ignored it..then he must have looked for more info about RU and then he wrote me about the rabbits going blind in a study and shit...but I would want to see that study myself and see that it is infact real and how much MG the guy used and for how long...but the guy on Youtube just stopped replying to me its annoying..I want answers Before I stop RU but the thought of damaging my Eyes slowly but surely is scary...if its true... did any of you manage  to find the study on google??? the thing is they normally test things on RATS not "rabbits" and why would the human test subject continue to use the RU if it had damaged the Eyes of the rabbits? sounds weird to me... his name on Youtube is "acidparanoia" that name says it all dont it? huh... -_-

----------


## diffuseloser

Hahaha! Yeah well with a name like that, I wouldn't read into it too much. There are thousands of guys who used RU and still use RU, so I'm sure we would know about it by now if there were any issues.

----------


## Illusion

I made a seperate thread about this in the regular Hair Loss Treatments section but haven't got any responses yet, presumably because that forum is a bit dead and there are less people there that know about RU.

Anyway, I use finasteride 1,25mg ED and RU ED (50mg in 1ml over whole scalp) but I'm still receding and thus Im switching to dutasteride. However, I was wondering what to do with RU now I'm taking 0,5mg dut ED. As dut is already really potent, I wondered if there was still merit to taking RU? instead of applying RU over my whole scalp, maybe I could apply RU to just my hair line? 

What concentration could I best use if I proceeded with that plan (RU on hair line only)? I used to use 5% concentration (50mg) ut couldnt really up my concentration due to money issues. However, for my hair line I only need 0.5ml I think so a stronger concentration becomes more affordable. 50mg in 0.5ml is double the strength (10%) but might be overkill. Maybe something like 7% (35mg) on hair line only?

Any thoughts of you guys on this?

----------


## VegetaDBZ

Update..... 

Itch is gone and shedding is down already after 1 month.....!

Hair quality seem to be better but no sure yet...

----------


## diffuseloser

Congrats man. Hope it continues.

----------


## VegetaDBZ

Thanks me 2...

If only front head stop recede i am very happy man.. !!

----------


## Soonbald

I have been mixing RU "250mg" EOD with neogenic and sometimes with rogaine, I first start by dermarolling my whole scalp with a 1mm derma needle..then spray the liquid all over my scalp...rubb it in with a plastic thing...and let it dry..been doing this for 2 months now...I see no regrowth or thicker hair on my hairline...I use minox foam "7ml" once a day..I heat the  foam up so it melts into a liquid and spray that shit all over my scalp...as of right now...I have noticed I do lose less hairs...not sure if my treatments are working or not but I hope they AID my hair folicles and protect them from DHT and such...the reason I use RU every other day is because of cost.. I dont have any "itch" problem that many hairloss sufferers report...I find this strange to say the least...some people say they got on "finasteride" and their "itch" was GONE....I have heard this many times...is the itch really linked to the DHT in the hair folicle?? or scalp?? because I have been balding for 6 years and have a norwood 2.5 and diffuse thinning but my scalp never itches its in perfect condition feels great...despite what that guy said about RU making you go BLIND...I keep on using RU at 200-250mg...if I go blind I go blind then its suicide time for me whatever

----------


## ghostrider

Well done mate!

Your hairs will go on shedding faze at first with RU. But then they start to become darker and more healthy in 4-8 months mark. Lower your dose mate and use ED.
Adding OC-ethanol helps to reduce the shedding. Might help you!

I am looking at TM http://www.thekaneshop.com/special-p...m30089-1g.html

It has the same price as OC, anyone success with this PGD2 Blocker?

----------


## Soonbald

Hi ghostrider, thanks for the info..my hair actually do look thinner now after 2 months shedding has deffo reduced crown hair feels stronger its hard to get hairs out from there when pulling.. its strange how I dont shed at all after overdosing on minox everyday for 3 months now been using the foam and the liquid...no shedding no regrowth my hairline keeps going back especially the left corner...but all in all my har shedding has deffo reduced but my hairline just dont seem to wanna stick around =/....I know I should be using RU everyday but I figured why not one BIG dose every other day? I still use minox everyday...we dont exactly know how long the RU is attatched to the dht receptors in the scalp/hair folicles..thats the problem..24h hours vs 48h not too much of a difference I would say but yes its best to use everyday for best results... gonna have to Think about this...if I use every other day I can use "5ml" RU and 1ml minox that will give me "6ml" to apply on my whole scalp and that is enough to cover my whole diffuse head...this is the problem im diffuse thinning all over the ****ing Place and putting 2ml or even 3ml ED will not cover all the areas of my scalp...I also have like 5cm long hair.. I just simply refuse to Buzz cut it cuz I just dont wanna xD...my hair would look alot thinner then and I dont want to look shit all the time...but I solved that problem by wetting my hair with some "alcohol gel" trying not to reach the scalp...then my hair is more clumped up and I spike it UP so I see more of my scalp and by doing this I make it so the HAIR dont absorb the liquid RU that im spraying on my scalp as much...because if I had dry hair then apply the RU the hairs will INDEED absorb alot of the ru liquid that you spray on and you deffo dont want that...im gonna cut my hair a Little shorter to make it easier to apply and rubb it in...and I will deffo Think about using everyday...

----------


## Parsia

Ok , in the next week its around 2 years that hellouser made this thread. 

By the way , I still don't see that much of success stories from RU , All I see is I'm not 

sure if it works or not ! Come on guys , thats kind of expensive drug you buy it from China 

and wait couple weeks to get it and then do some work to mix it , in the other hand the 

safety hasn't approved yet , So why there is not any before and after pic ?!! 

I've got kind of disappointed .

----------


## TubZy

> Well done mate!
> 
> Your hairs will go on shedding faze at first with RU. But then they start to become darker and more healthy in 4-8 months mark. Lower your dose mate and use ED.
> Adding OC-ethanol helps to reduce the shedding. Might help you!
> 
> I am looking at TM http://www.thekaneshop.com/special-p...m30089-1g.html
> 
> It has the same price as OC, anyone success with this PGD2 Blocker?


 I may try TM too.  I heard it better than OC and more selective.  Not sure on the dosage and vehicle though.  Let me know if you have any idea.

----------


## robodoc

> Thousands of users tried RU58841 already, actual human subjects. Ranging from a few days of usage to the longest user I know who has been using it for 10 years. Many dosages have been tried too. If it were to cause blindness you would already know. Simple logical thinking, no? 
> 
> Also I can't find any information about that. I'm not even aware they tested RU58841 on rabbits. They did  test it on mice and a macaque model and then followed with human clinical trials till phase 2.


 Everyone basically have different side effects to medications.  Some more prominent and some minimal but you really take a risk with RU because the side effects are not truly known.  I tried it for a year and it did affect my libido and did nothing for hair growth but apparently it helps other.  Your choice to use...

----------


## robodoc

I don't think anyone will say much, I mean we all know the caveats of RU.  Adding another antibald med to your regimen may work or may not. 7-10%, why not?

----------


## Soonbald

well...I say this...if a person like myself cant take finasteride due to getting severely dry Eyes after just 1 month of usage...read many others get dry Eyes from fina too and some even permanently...didnt get any sexuall or mental sides it just affected my Eyes..who knows what the drug would do to me in the long run...this is why I jumped on minoxidill and RU out of desperation...I did read some guys using only RU and not fina and they claimed they kept their hair...like the guy el_duterino he has used RU mixed to neogenic for a few years now and he claims to have stopped his hairloss...im just giving this a try but as of right now the RU seems useless...and the minoxidill dont do shit for my hair either...great.... its like im doomed to go bald cuz all the treatments just seem to fail on me or cause problems... even one guy told me he read a study about rabbits going blind on RU and a human test subject got Eye damaged from it YET I use RU out of desperation to keep or slow down my hairloss...this is how much my hair means to me...if I go bald I will probably kill myself my Life sucks anyway dont care really..

----------


## Soonbald

......

----------


## Soonbald

dude it takes 4-5 Days to deliver the RU but yes its indeed expensive... I get my RU from france...

----------


## diffuseloser

What company in France do you yet your RU from? Don't let hair loss control your life man. There are many other things to be positive about.

----------


## Soonbald

dude the only reason hairloss is controlling my Life is because I cant shave it or go bald in the first Place I dont have the head shape for it and my head is small..I would look like a freak no lie..so im really scared to go bald and im desperate to sustain my hair..sucks that I cant tolerate finasteride so im gonna go bald much faster...not even sure if RU does much besides reduce my shedding...I buy my RU from "anagen inc" they send from europe "france" if you live in europe...if you live in USA they send from USA

----------


## diffuseloser

Exactly the same for me. I'm dreading when it gets to the stage where my hair becomes so thin, that the only option left will be to shave it. I don't think I could pull off a chrome dome. Sadly, just holding on for dear life and hoping for a miracle treatment in the next few years. Don't think RU is really beneficial in the long run. It's a quick fix. I got my RU from the same place. Didn't realise it was shipped from France. I'm UK based.

----------


## Soonbald

hi diffuseloser...im currently on "Herbalisers treatment" you know about it? he indeed got regrowth from it and also by drinking fresly pressed juice everyday..I just started on the oil treatment on "scalp" and the juice... but ofc I also use minox foam and RU...I also take beta-sistosterol 620mg everyday but not sure if I should continue with it..might do me more harm than good...but ofc RU deffo gets into the blood I Think..I mean minox indeed does because I have felt slightly light headed when I apply too much minox so maybe the ru also gets in the blood.. also added "boar brushing" read some ppl say it helped them so why not? there is a guy on Youtube he claims to have regrown his hairline back the same hairline when he was 15 years old LOL...and his Crown got thicker too he said he did these "scalp exercises" you know by tom hagrety...he says he did it for 7 months and he saw new hairs growing on his hairline then he added coconut oil and emu oil on his scalp...he has stopped his "MPB" thats what he tells me anyway and he seems very smart also..much more than me...I cant even argue with the guy hes like a damn professor...but ya...I find it strange that he reversed his hairloss by doing these exercises but he told me he had a "very tight scalp" and now its more loose so maybe thats why he got regrowth? not sure....but there are other guys also claiming to have stopped their receeded hairline by doing these exercises...frankly I find it weird...why does the corners of the hairline receede? but not the front hair? sure some guys lose the front hair but my front hair stays intact it grows and its thick...it dont thin out just my corners...so if it was a bloodflow problem or fibrosis problem in my hairline then why the hell does my front stay intact? I just dont get it....

----------


## ghostrider

> Hi ghostrider, thanks for the info..my hair actually do look thinner now after 2 months shedding has deffo reduced crown hair feels stronger its hard to get hairs out from there when pulling.. its strange how I dont shed at all after overdosing on minox everyday for 3 months now been using the foam and the liquid...no shedding no regrowth my hairline keeps going back especially the left corner...but all in all my har shedding has deffo reduced but my hairline just dont seem to wanna stick around =/....I know I should be using RU everyday but I figured why not one BIG dose every other day? I still use minox everyday...we dont exactly know how long the RU is attatched to the dht receptors in the scalp/hair folicles..thats the problem..24h hours vs 48h not too much of a difference I would say but yes its best to use everyday for best results... gonna have to Think about this...if I use every other day I can use "5ml" RU and 1ml minox that will give me "6ml" to apply on my whole scalp and that is enough to cover my whole diffuse head...this is the problem im diffuse thinning all over the ****ing Place and putting 2ml or even 3ml ED will not cover all the areas of my scalp...I also have like 5cm long hair.. I just simply refuse to Buzz cut it cuz I just dont wanna xD...my hair would look alot thinner then and I dont want to look shit all the time...but I solved that problem by wetting my hair with some "alcohol gel" trying not to reach the scalp...then my hair is more clumped up and I spike it UP so I see more of my scalp and by doing this I make it so the HAIR dont absorb the liquid RU that im spraying on my scalp as much...because if I had dry hair then apply the RU the hairs will INDEED absorb alot of the ru liquid that you spray on and you deffo dont want that...im gonna cut my hair a Little shorter to make it easier to apply and rubb it in...and I will deffo Think about using everyday...


 Hi mate,

You’re doing good mate. You managed to stop your hairloss and the crown hairs are getting better. The hairline has more DHT receptors so we need stronger approach there. 24hours protection.  You might wnna try RU ED at the hairline and continue EOD for other regions. I’m now on biotin tabs 5% RU + 2% OC mixed together in K&B solution. I think the OC in addition is not helping for regrowth but for thicker hair and reducing the shedding to the minimum.
Next I want to try WNT activators for the DP’s . SMO or 6BIO anyone luck getting those and what wehere the results?.

----------


## albert

Long time lurker here. Thanks OP for this very nice post. I'm going to start with RU in a week or two since Fin did nothing to me (not positive either negative) after many years and this is my last resort. Hope more guys start testing this and posting results since nowadays it's easier to get it from trusted sources.

----------


## diffuseloser

> hi diffuseloser...im currently on "Herbalisers treatment" you know about it? he indeed got regrowth from it and also by drinking fresly pressed juice everyday..I just started on the oil treatment on "scalp" and the juice... but ofc I also use minox foam and RU...I also take beta-sistosterol 620mg everyday but not sure if I should continue with it..might do me more harm than good...but ofc RU deffo gets into the blood I Think..I mean minox indeed does because I have felt slightly light headed when I apply too much minox so maybe the ru also gets in the blood.. also added "boar brushing" read some ppl say it helped them so why not? there is a guy on Youtube he claims to have regrown his hairline back the same hairline when he was 15 years old LOL...and his Crown got thicker too he said he did these "scalp exercises" you know by tom hagrety...he says he did it for 7 months and he saw new hairs growing on his hairline then he added coconut oil and emu oil on his scalp...he has stopped his "MPB" thats what he tells me anyway and he seems very smart also..much more than me...I cant even argue with the guy hes like a damn professor...but ya...I find it strange that he reversed his hairloss by doing these exercises but he told me he had a "very tight scalp" and now its more loose so maybe thats why he got regrowth? not sure....but there are other guys also claiming to have stopped their receeded hairline by doing these exercises...frankly I find it weird...why does the corners of the hairline receede? but not the front hair? sure some guys lose the front hair but my front hair stays intact it grows and its thick...it dont thin out just my corners...so if it was a bloodflow problem or fibrosis problem in my hairline then why the hell does my front stay intact? I just dont get it....


 Hey Soonbald, 

Sorry for the late reply. I haven't heard of that particular one but I've heard about pretty much all other herbal treatments and diet changes etc. Can't say I have any faith in them. Tried these myself a few years ago and it was all pretty pointless at least on the hair loss front. When you first start out on this losing battle, you will try just about anything based on something you read online. We've all been there and tried some wacky shit. Eventually, you will arrive at things like RU, which does indeed work. Hairloss patterns are very strange indeed. Some guys have carpet heads with temple recession, others like myself have hair where it should be but considerably less and also starts to recede after a while. Then you have the fellas who are chrome dome by the time they're 20. And maybe that isn't the worst thing because it happens quick and you can't fight it. It's done and you have no choice but to deal with it. It's possibly more emotionally taxing trying to hang on to every hair left on your head for a long duration of time. Every day I'm inching closer to that razor and hoping for a feeling of complete liberation, but still I continue fighting a battle I can't win. Stick with RU for a while. It worked for me but it didn't last. There are guys who have had great success with it and continue to maintain what they have and I hope you are one of them.

----------


## Swooping

Did anyone ever try EOD dosing and successfully maintained his hair?

----------


## seanway

> Did anyone ever try EOD dosing and successfully maintained his hair?


 what is EOD ?

----------


## Soonbald

swooping..I have a question when I spray the RU all over my scalp I use 5ml"250mg" of it and add just 2ml of minox to it and mix it together then spray it all over...I Always dermaroll all over my scalp with 1mm derma needle of course for better "absorption" and I do a good job doing it i do bleed slightly sometimes even...anyway...my issue is when I rubb my scalp after I spray it on...some say its "needed" to rubb the RU in is this really true? the derma Rolling does make small small holes in the scalp so the RU and the minox can seep into those small holes by itself? or do I really need to rubb it in hard for it to enter the skin/hair folicle? I dont want to have a shaved head to be able to rubb it in lol...I rubb my scalp with that "neogenic" plastic thing you know that one? Little plastic thing that u rubb the neogenic liquid on your scalp...anyway I rubb it in with that...but I noticed when I put it against the scalp and start rubbing the hairs is in the way I rubb "ON" the hairs "sometimes" and on the scalp at the same time you know..its hard to avoid this...but when doing this the hair will kind of "Clean up" the liquid RU that is on the scalp...I just want to touch the SCALP SKIN and not the hairs itself..but haha even if you have 1 CM hair length and rubb your scalp you will still rubb the hair against the scalp...the only way to avoid this is to completely shave your head or have 1-3mm hair length but I dont want to go around like that for months cuz my hair grows slowly due to "MPB" and I dont suit with that short hair actually its my head shape and size that puts me off actually.. but do you rubb the RU in every time? do you Think its REALLY necessary? I mean you Think you can get results without rubbing it in? dermarolling deffo helps the RU to enter the hair folicles because of the small holes it makes in the skin...please give me your thoughts and suggestions if you have any

----------


## Soonbald

swooping one thing more...are these results from RU really LEGIT? http://www.ru58841.info/results/ also they all have "long hairs" and apply the RU on their scalp..and they get that good of results?? so maybe Buzz cutting isnt really "NEEDED" ? sure its better so the RU gets on the scalp more than on the hair...but if those results are LEGIT then I shouldnt have to worry that much now should I?

----------


## Parsia

> what is EOD ?


 It means Every Other day , Like Monday , Wednesday , Friday.

----------


## burtandernie

What happens to RU after it enters the blood stream and passes past the many many androgen receptors found in places like skin? Where does RU get broken down and metabolized? I think its too early to say its side free. Many users dont have issues with finasteride does that mean it sides free because you cant see or notice any changes?

----------


## Einstein

> Did anyone ever try EOD dosing and successfully maintained his hair?


 I don't think that would be a correct protocol considering the short half life of RU.  It needs to be applied daily to be effective.  The day you don't take it is the day DHT will be binding to your scalp's androgen receptors causing further hair thinning/loss.  

An alternative to taking it eod would be to split your dose (if funds is an issue).  Instead of thinking about using, for example, 50mg eod use 25mg ed (every day).

----------


## Soonbald

hmm...thats not enough to cover the whole scalp...I use 250mg every other day "5ml" and it works for me...but im gonna start using 200mg everyday from now on...

----------


## Coiffio

I spent around 5 months messing with tiny, infrequent, doses of finasteride with no note worthy results. Then I added 45mg of RU in 1.5ml 5 months ago and the quality of my hair turned a complete 180. I stopped having greasy hair and my hairline exploded with black fuzz and new terminal hairs. I can dig up some pics and more details if anyone's interested. Just wanted to thank hellouser and the community that's spread across a few forums.

----------


## Soonbald

> I spent around 5 months messing with tiny, infrequent, doses of finasteride with no note worthy results. Then I added 45mg of RU in 1.5ml 5 months ago and the quality of my hair turned a complete 180. I stopped having greasy hair and my hairline exploded with black fuzz and new terminal hairs. I can dig up some pics and more details if anyone's interested. Just wanted to thank hellouser and the community that's spread across a few forums.


 
thats crazy..how long did it take to see results? and where do you order from? thekaneshop or anagen inc? and what do you mix the RU with?

----------


## Coiffio

> thats crazy..how long did it take to see results? and where do you order from? thekaneshop or anagen inc? and what do you mix the RU with?


 My hair stopped being so greasy after the first week. After 1 month I started to see some fuzz. Months 3-4 the quality of my hair completely changed. 

I got it from anagen. I've spent 3 months with KB solution and 2 months with 70/30 ethanol/pg. The KB solution feels much better and I'm able to spread it around my scalp much more efficiently. Most of my results popped up when using KB (I hope this is coincidence.) The RU dissolves on impact in ethanol, it takes a solid minute of stirring to fully dissolve in KB. I'm only using ethanol/pg now to save money.

----------


## Soonbald

> My hair stopped being so greasy after the first week. After 1 month I started to see some fuzz. Months 3-4 the quality of my hair completely changed. 
> 
> I got it from anagen. I've spent 3 months with KB solution and 2 months with 70/30 ethanol/pg. The KB solution feels much better and I'm able to spread it around my scalp much more efficiently. Most of my results popped up when using KB (I hope this is coincidence.) The RU dissolves on impact in ethanol, it takes a solid minute of stirring to fully dissolve in KB. I'm only using ethanol/pg now to save money.


 
ahh...thats cool man..been using 250mg every other day "mostly" but been using the premixed soution 5% pg/ethanol...I have dermarolled my scalp every time and sprayed that liquid all over the damn Place...I do shed less hairs my hair feels stronger but I see no damn new hairs on my hairline...it just keeps receeding pretty much. I have had a norwood 2.5 for around 5 years so that hair is just DEAD I bet...too late to save them...anyway I read that mixing yourself is best I guess..but the issue is that I dont know what to mix it with..I can get ethanol but that PG I dunno where to get in my country "sweden"... but it says on their site that the premixed are stable for 6 months and I use up my bottles in 1 month...and I have read 2 guys getting "fuzz" on their hairline after using "KB 5% premixed solution from anagen" so it must be effective but maybe not as strong as freshly mixed I dunno...nobody "truely" knows to be honest..but I use up my premixed fast anyway so I dont Think its much of a problem..but ordering a Little bag with White powder in it seems risky...I hope they dont Think its cocaine or something..there are no tull from france to sweden but im still afraid they will wonder what it contains since its just some powder...thats why I have been afraid of ordering the powder... been thinking of ordering 5% "KB" premixed this time and not pg/ethanol...and use 200-250mg of it everyday this time instead of everyday...it will cost me 235 dollar for 1 month supply because I use "5ml" of RU everyday...I do have kinda long hair I dont want to Buzz cut it...thats why I use more "ML" to cover my whole scalp...how long is your hair btw? in mm or cm? please tell me...and do you "dermaroll" every time you apply it? and do you RUBB it in hard?? please tell me its important for me to know this thanks!

----------


## Coiffio

Looking back I started losing hair about 4 years ago. A shaggy cut and ignorance hid it from me until a vicious year of accelerated hair loss really woke me up and I took action. One side was a full blown diffusing NW3, the other was a thick NW2.5. If RU keeps it up I'll have a thick NW2 and a diffuse-ish NW2. But in any event, the quality of my hair is incredible compared to the start of the year.

I actually have the opposite problem. PG is easy but I can't buy anything higher than 150 proof in store. I have to get 200 proof from labs on ebay and trust their word that they aren't denatured with weird stuff. It's so much cheaper than KB, though. I used the premix my first month so I think it's fine. I make 10-15 day batches at a time and apply it every day. And I agree, the white powder can look sketchy.

I don't dermaroll and my hair isn't buzzed down, 5-7cm or so. It is a bit difficult sometimes with the hair soaking it up, but I've gotten better at it. I rub it in the best I can but try not to be too harsh. What really helps applying it through hair is dragging a 1 ml syringe along the scalp (no needle obviously.) I can usually cover the whole NW6 pattern with only 1.5ml this way.

----------


## Soonbald

hmm...I have been using 250mg every other day premixed 5% RU from anagen for 3 months now...I have got no new hairs what so ever.. I use "5ml" then add 1ml minox so "6ml" then shake it and spray it onto my scalp all over the place... I have only noticed decreased hairloss so far... and 250mg is a huge dose...I should get much better results shouldnt I.... -_- I have also dermarolled my scalp often...this is why I bought the "KB" solution just to try it and I will use 200mg "everyday" from now on...the way I apply my RU is that I first soak my hair in "alcogel 85%" to make my hair clump up and make it wetter..so when I spray the liquid RU the hair wont absorb much of the RU at all..since the hair is already wet from the "alcogel" and I see alot better when my hair is more "wet" I try not to reach the scalp with the alcogel but 85% alcohol is the highest I can find...maybe its better to buy some ethanol and just wet the hair a Little I dunno will have to see about that..but this is a good option for you I Think...try it and see how u like it...I have had zero sides I even used 400mg of RU today...and rubbed it in...I just dont get any sides...hopefully its not because its "premixed" maybe I get sides from freshly mixed but I doubt it tbh...people report sides with just 50mg of RU and they make it "fresh"...and I have used 400mg of premixed and I have zero sides..I Believe 250-400mg of premixed is more potent than 50mg freshly mixed lol...I still have read 2 guys using the premixed and they got regrowth of hair..and also some guy got side effects from "premixed" so its deffo potent enough...but I just dont get any sides no matter how much I use lol lucky me I guess but I need better results than what I got..this is why I order x3 bottles now for 235$ each month..will see in a couple of months how this goes...

----------


## Coiffio

Well you're absolutely using enough RU to get results haha. That's also a pretty interesting way of getting it to the scalp. I'm sure you're getting it done!

RU saves hair ultimately the same way as finasteride - as in less dht is binding to hair. I feel like I've read every fin/dut/ru account on these forums and for many people all these medications do is maintain. Most don't see any real cosmetic regrowth until 6+ months in (if ever.) I've seen many 3+ year long finasteride forum journals (with pics) and it didn't even seem to slow down some of these poor guys hair loss. The truth is all of these medications kind of suck and RU has the hardest group to please (guys that fin/dut didn't work for, stopped working for, or gave them horrible sides.) The absolute best you can hope for is to turn the clock back 2 years, make your remaining hair healthier, and maintain from there. Combine that with side effects and the hassle of these meds... it's no surprise they were a commercial flop.

As for the sides, I first started out with propecia 1mg a day without knowing much about the online madness. The first week I was fine, 2nd week the downstairs wasn't working right, 3rd week the downstairs completely shut down. It was the only side effect I experienced but it was pretty scary once I learned about the extent of the online hysteria. That led me to tiny fin doses and then to RU. Like you, I've had zero side effects with RU. I've even accidentally breathed in a bunch of this stuff back when I was terrible at mixing the powder haha.

All of this is why I'm so appreciative of the great results I've gotten so far. It's given me my life back for now, and that's why I wanted to sign up to say thanks to everyone.

----------


## losthair85

what dose of RU have been using Coiffio?

Sorry if I missed it....

I'm about to start using it, just waiting to get my 190 proof booze, lol

----------


## Coiffio

> what dose of RU have been using Coiffio?
> 
> Sorry if I missed it....
> 
> I'm about to start using it, just waiting to get my 190 proof booze, lol


 I make a 3% solution and use 1.5ml a day. So that's 45mg. Good luck!

----------


## Soonbald

coiffio u take a small dose of fin dont you? maybe thats why you got fast results with RU I mean 3% RU and just 45mg and 1.5ml...thats insane to get such fast results..but I Think lowering dht in the blood from finasteride has helped you gain faster and better results dont u Think? im not sure if ur on FIN or not but you said "small dose of fin"

----------


## Coiffio

I agree that RU and fin could have a nice synergetic DHT blocking effect because of the different modes of action... unless there's more about up regulation we don't know about. For 5 months I took .25mg of fin twice a week with random 1 week breaks. I got no cosmetic results. 

When I switched to RU I stopped taking fin for several weeks. Then I started back up taking .25mg about once (rarely twice) a week because I can handle it and agree that it could help RU do its job. The whole timeline of things and RU ending my 4 year battle with itchy greasy hair almost instantly makes me think RU is doing some heavy lifting. My older brother said he was going to start RU some time ago. It's the only treatment he's ever used for hair so it'll be interesting to watch. I'll ask him about it.

As for the 45mg dose of RU being low, El DUT and some others have been using 20mg a day for over a year now. 50-100mg a day is the standard. More wouldn't hurt at all as long as you're not getting sides. I just don't want to spend much money haha. The day something grows every last hair back onto my head is the day I empty the life savings account.

----------


## Soonbald

thats the thing...about duterino using only 20mg a day...and he says it maintained his hair and thats a very low dose...you should use at least 50-100mg...I know this..if 250mg of RU a day dont work for me in 2-3 months then I should just give it up or well not really it does infact reduce my shedding I barely lose any hairs now..but my hairline still got weak hair there and is not growing stronger even though I have sprayed RU there and dermarolled my hairline like crazy and rubbed it in very hard...I used RU mostly every other day...with a Little minox but I rarely used it everyday..anyway I feel like cutting my hair even shorter its like 5cm...maybe go 3 or so I just dont wanna Buzz cut because I wanna see results from RU Before I do anything stupid that I will regret... as of yet no hair growth at least not on the hairline but who knows maybe somewhere else that I cant see? anyway wish me Luck this time with 250mg a day of KB solution I use 5%.. but you know I Heard el duterino Went back on FIN? he said it himself at 2012 not sure if he quit again? he said that RU was good but it wasnt enough anymore to stop his hairloss because of getting older thats what he said

----------


## Swooping

> swooping..I have a question when I spray the RU all over my scalp I use 5ml"250mg" of it and add just 2ml of minox to it and mix it together then spray it all over...I Always dermaroll all over my scalp with 1mm derma needle of course for better "absorption" and I do a good job doing it i do bleed slightly sometimes even...anyway...my issue is when I rubb my scalp after I spray it on...some say its "needed" to rubb the RU in is this really true? the derma Rolling does make small small holes in the scalp so the RU and the minox can seep into those small holes by itself? or do I really need to rubb it in hard for it to enter the skin/hair folicle? I dont want to have a shaved head to be able to rubb it in lol...I rubb my scalp with that "neogenic" plastic thing you know that one? Little plastic thing that u rubb the neogenic liquid on your scalp...anyway I rubb it in with that...but I noticed when I put it against the scalp and start rubbing the hairs is in the way I rubb "ON" the hairs "sometimes" and on the scalp at the same time you know..its hard to avoid this...but when doing this the hair will kind of "Clean up" the liquid RU that is on the scalp...I just want to touch the SCALP SKIN and not the hairs itself..but haha even if you have 1 CM hair length and rubb your scalp you will still rubb the hair against the scalp...the only way to avoid this is to completely shave your head or have 1-3mm hair length but I dont want to go around like that for months cuz my hair grows slowly due to "MPB" and I dont suit with that short hair actually its my head shape and size that puts me off actually.. but do you rubb the RU in every time? do you Think its REALLY necessary? I mean you Think you can get results without rubbing it in? dermarolling deffo helps the RU to enter the hair folicles because of the small holes it makes in the skin...please give me your thoughts and suggestions if you have any


 Personally I start with a glass dropper on the front of my head and then tilt my head back so the solution runs over my head. Then I massage it in. I don't know if rubbing helps with penetration though, doubt it. 

And yes these results are real. However some use minoxidil in combination with the RU, so some of these results come off a synergistic effect. 

Also RU works primarily for maintenance. Some will notice an increase in hair growth and thickening, but not everyone. You should expect maintenance everything else would be a plus. Unfortunately some can even continue to lose with RU, it's definitely possible. Hope that helps.

----------


## VegetaDBZ

Hi guys..... 

Now full frontal stop & increase thickness

So happy.. But no regrowth unfortunately? 

Do I need to increase dose..?

----------


## Soonbald

you can try to increase the dose I use 300mg a day! no problems

----------


## Pate

> I agree that RU and fin could have a nice synergetic DHT blocking effect because of the different modes of action... unless there's more about up regulation we don't know about. For 5 months I took .25mg of fin twice a week with random 1 week breaks. I got no cosmetic results. 
> 
> When I switched to RU I stopped taking fin for several weeks. Then I started back up taking .25mg about once (rarely twice) a week because I can handle it and agree that it could help RU do its job. The whole timeline of things and RU ending my 4 year battle with itchy greasy hair almost instantly makes me think RU is doing some heavy lifting. My older brother said he was going to start RU some time ago. It's the only treatment he's ever used for hair so it'll be interesting to watch. I'll ask him about it.
> 
> As for the 45mg dose of RU being low, El DUT and some others have been using 20mg a day for over a year now. 50-100mg a day is the standard. More wouldn't hurt at all as long as you're not getting sides. I just don't want to spend much money haha. The day something grows every last hair back onto my head is the day I empty the life savings account.


 I use 40mg a day and it works fine. I used 50mg for a while but I was having trouble dissolving it in the minox I was using as a vehicle. Not enough ethanol I suspect. As it evaporated it would leave a white powdery substance on my scalp.

So I dropped it to 40mg and it still nukes my oily scalp. The minox provides good regrowth (well, as good as you can expect from minox) so overall this is the best single treatment I've ever used.

----------


## burtandernie

How would someone continue to bald even using a high dose of RU? What would be the mechanism of that then because nearly all androgens are rendered inactive you would assume.

----------


## warner8

for those of you who are on RU now, how long did you decide to take the plunge after being in din/dut? i ask because I have been on fin for over a year and a half and have not gotten the results i hoped. current hair count is being maintained, slowly dropping off. I used minox in the past with great regrowth for a number of years until my DHT got too high, and the minox stopped working. would going to RU help my minox work again?
thanks

----------


## Soonbald

The only thing you can do is experiment and see how things go...the longest I could take fin was 1 month until my Eyes got severely dry so I had to stop it ...then I started minox and RU..been on "minox" for 4-5 months no results whatsoever maybe slightly less shedding but I didnt see any new hairs at least not on my hairline so I figured it barely works...so I might drop that and now im gonna just use 300mg of RU everyday for a few months and I will ONLY use RU...this is a good test because many people use RU and minox so its hard to determine which one that works the best...I used 250mg of RU every other day for 3 months but all I got was less shedding but no regrowth on my hairline this time I will use everyday at 300mg and in KB solution this time instead of ethanol/pg..I will surely keep you all updated after my test run!

----------


## Swooping

> How would someone continue to bald even using a high dose of RU? What would be the mechanism of that then because nearly all androgens are rendered inactive you would assume.


 It doesn't block all DHT.

----------


## VegetaDBZ

> you can try to increase the dose I use 300mg a day! no problems


 300 MG...!?? So much..!!!!!!!!

I will try 100 MG....

Very happy already but hope for regrowth!!!!!!

----------


## Soonbald

Vegeta how short is your hair in mm or cm??? and do u mix the ru with minox or just ethanol/pg mixture?

----------


## chongmet

Guys,
I am on Minox for 6 years. Never touched Fin and not gonna (too afraid). So RU is like the last chance for me to somehow block DHT with minimal sides. 

Got a question for you, users of RU - Could you maintain your results for the long term using RU? I've read in certain places that the effect of RU is very short - few months, and then it becomes slightly uneffective. Are there some fellows that have been on RU for few years now and can say that it helps maintaining hair state?

Thanks a lot

----------


## PinotQ

> Guys,
> I am on Minox for 6 years. Never touched Fin and not gonna (too afraid). So RU is like the last chance for me to somehow block DHT with minimal sides. 
> 
> Got a question for you, users of RU - Could you maintain your results for the long term using RU? I've read in certain places that the effect of RU is very short - few months, and then it becomes slightly uneffective. Are there some fellows that have been on RU for few years now and can say that it helps maintaining hair state?
> 
> Thanks a lot


 Personally, I think you have to discount much of the feedback where people say their medication showed benefit or stopped working within the first 4th months. My doctor (very reputable and well know) told me that in over 20 years of practice, no matter the medication, any benefits from treatment don't generally start to show themselves until the 6th thru 12th months.  And typically, you can expect some degree of shedding for the first 3 to 4 months.  This doesn't mean people don't think they see regrowth and they absolutely could see less greasy or more lively hair.  But you can't "see" maintenance except by having the same amount of hair over a longer term and you likely wouldn't see any new regrowth for a least 4 months.  Here is another quote from another well known hair physician's website (Dr. Bernstein) saying basically the same thing regarding dutasteride:  "During the first six months on dutasteride, one may note some thinning of ones existing hair. This may be due to either progression of your hair loss before finasteride has had a chance to work, or some shedding of miniaturized hair that makes way for the new healthy hair to grow. It is important to be patient during this period. You should continue the medication for at least one year before you and your doctor can assess its benefits."

----------


## Swooping

> Guys,
> I am on Minox for 6 years. Never touched Fin and not gonna (too afraid). So RU is like the last chance for me to somehow block DHT with minimal sides. 
> 
> Got a question for you, users of RU - Could you maintain your results for the long term using RU? I've read in certain places that the effect of RU is very short - few months, and then it becomes slightly uneffective. Are there some fellows that have been on RU for few years now and can say that it helps maintaining hair state?
> 
> Thanks a lot


 I am 2 years now on it still maintaining. One guy maintained on it for 10 years and then it stopped working for him a bit he said.

----------


## Soonbald

> I am 2 years now on it still maintaining. One guy maintained on it for 10 years and then it stopped working for him a bit he said.


 
Swooping so I assume you dont use any internall dht blockers such as fin/dut/palmetto? JUST ru? if you use FIN/minox...then you can never know if RU works or not.. im currently just using RU as a stand alone treatment gonna give it a few months..but im doubtfull tbh

----------


## warner8

Are Kane and Anagenic the same company? and if so is the quality of product high

I am thinking of ordering a bottle of the pre-made RU in solution

http://anageninc.com/on-sale/ru58841-solution-50ml.html

I wanted to know what is the difference between the % RU, 3, 5 AND 8%. What is the most commonly used, and which one is best for begginers?

Also, which is the better solution the PG and Alcohol, or this KB solution?
thanks

----------


## warner8

Are Kane and Anagenic the same company? and if so is the quality of product high

I am thinking of ordering a bottle of the pre-made RU in solution

http://anageninc.com/on-sale/ru58841-solution-50ml.html

I wanted to know what is the difference between the % RU, 3, 5 AND 8%. What is the most commonly used, and which one is best for begginers?

Also, which is the better solution the PG and Alcohol, or this KB solution?
thanks

----------


## Soonbald

Yes it is the same Company "I Believe" on the package I recieve it says "ANAGENINC KANE" I currently use x3 premade 5% KB solution.. I use 5ml a day last me 1 month...and I only use RU no minox and no fin...will give this a shot for a few months

----------


## Swooping

> Swooping so I assume you dont use any internall dht blockers such as fin/dut/palmetto? JUST ru? if you use FIN/minox...then you can never know if RU works or not.. im currently just using RU as a stand alone treatment gonna give it a few months..but im doubtfull tbh


 Soonbald, I have dropped minoxidil a few months ago. I have tried finasteride in the past too as a small trial. Now I'm just on RU.

----------


## champpy

Chongmet, i too have been using RU off and on for about 3 months. I believe I was getting some side effects with it so I cut back my dosage a lot. even stopped using it for a while. the time I did use it regularly I didn't notice any benefit but again I was only using regularly for like a month and a half. I did not notice any less shedding but my hair did seem less greasy in the mornings.

----------


## Soonbald

No offense champpy but I dont Believe that RU gives you any side effects..its a "topicall" afterall...how much of it actually reach the blood? not much if at all...I use 250mg ED and dermaroll my scalp every time I apply it and I spray it all over my scalp and rubb it in carefully and there is no side effects...RU in my opinion is ALOT safer than fin/dut obviously since its a topicall...I also dont Believe much in the results from RU..some people mix the RU with minox and Think its the RU that does the job but infact it could just be the minox that is giving results... or maybe when people started adding RU they got better results? I dunno.. but not many actually JUST use "RU" we got 1 guy here that only use RU or two...including ME...if RU dont work for me in a few months then its safe to say that RU is a bullshit chemical that dont work for hairloss it should work on me because I have slow hairloss and very slow recession over the years...but still we all react differently to Chemicals and pills so some guys will get good results while others wont..thats Life...im not saying people that get results from RU imagine it...but many use RU and minox..not necessarily "blend" them together well some do...but they still use both treatments..so when they get slight regrowth it could just be from the minox..thats all im saying...because we know that minox can grow hair but we dont really know if RU "alone" can grow hair...or do we?

----------


## telogen

RU sucks...minox+ topical spiro did more in slowing down my hairloss then RU ever did. I've been on RU for like 8 months now and i've been upping the dosage for 4 months, from 30mg/ml to 50mg/ml and now 80mg/ml and i'm still losing hair. It doesn't seem like increasing the dosage really helps, RU just appears to lose it's effect over a shorter period of time. On minox and spiro i could atleast maintain properly for about 12 months, RU only gave me like 4-5 months.

----------


## warner8

where do you guys store your premade ru solutions from kane/anagenic? in the fridge or just a dark coo place?

----------


## Soonbald

I store my bottles in the refrigerator so it dont get "too Cold" I asked anageninc if that was okey and they said yes its okey the RU will be stable longer in the refrigerator..

----------


## Tenma

> I store my bottles in the refrigerator so it dont get "too Cold" I asked anageninc if that was okey and they said yes its okey the RU will be stable longer in the refrigerator..


 good info. thanks

----------


## cbpl12

can anyone comment on AARC 
http://www.aarc-chems.com/ru58841-raw-powder

Thinking about getting my RU from them over Kane/anagen

----------


## VegetaDBZ

> can anyone comment on AARC 
> http://www.aarc-chems.com/ru58841-raw-powder
> 
> Thinking about getting my RU from them over Kane/anagen


 http://www.ru58841.net/where-to-buy/

Recommend everywhere to buy from anageninc/kane....

I buy anageninc.. but price same..!

----------


## ghostrider

I still guess k&b solution is keeping the chemical composition more stable. I found old bottle with 5%ru which  I've had lost for over a year and guess what it still works. No subum or itching.

----------


## desininja

will ever clear 151 proof work for mixing with propylene glycol as a vehicle for ru ? i am not able to find 190 proof in michigan. please suggest

----------


## warner8

does RU cause shed at the beginning of treatment, sort of like minox?

----------


## Trouse5858

I wouldn't recommend RU.  It probably helped the quality of my hair but I wouldn't say it led to any re-growth and I now have gyno remaining from 3 month period of usage starting last January in my right nipple.   I'm planning on taking 30 mg of Raloxifene per day for two months to reduce it.  RU isn't super expensive, but mixing it's a pain and anything from China is sketchy in my opinion.

----------


## diffuseloser

Agree with Trouse. In the long term, RU is a waste of money. Of course there are a handful of guys on forums who had reported amazing regrowth, myself included, but as I say in the long term you're just back to where you started again. I was blown away initially by the regrowth or illusion of regrowth when I started out using RU. Then, after a while, it just stopped dead in its tracks and even though I kept on it to maintain, ultimately I'm back to where I was before. There's no doubt it improves the quality and perhaps the thickness of existing hair. If you want a quick fix, go for it but don't expect it to stay that way for very long because it won't. My advice would be to save your money.

----------


## Tenma

> In the long term, RU is a waste of money.


 Are you a long term RU user?

If so, how long you been taking it?

----------


## Unsure1

Do you believe RU looses its efficacy with long term use? I believe this is due to the bodies ability to adapt to its continual use by producing more androgens. In order to avoid this perhaps cycling dosages throughout the week/fortnight/month may be a viable option in order to avoid tolerance build up.

----------


## diffuseloser

I used it steady for over a year. Perhaps this is not long enough to base an opinion on. However, I can tell you that after as little as a month, I began to see major improvements. It was shocking. My hair filled in dramatically to the point where you wouldn't really notice I was losing hair. I'm not sure if this was regrowth. I do think that my hair thickened up considerably,  lost it's steel wool properties and began to resemble something that felt like healthy hair. This continued for several months. Around about the 6 month mark, things started to go pear shaped again and it simply lost efficacy. I kept on it anyway but it was a fruitless endeavour. Looks like it was the same for Hellouser and a few others I can think of. There's a reason they aren't on RU anymore after experiencing pretty mindblowing results and I suspect that it's because it simply stopped working. This is only my experience and everyone is different. For me, it didn't take very long to see improvements, but those improvements also came to a head rather quickly. For others, it may take some time and when you do get results, they may stick around longer than they did for me. No two bodies are the same.

----------


## Swooping

> I used it steady for over a year. Perhaps this is not long enough to base an opinion on. However, I can tell you that after as little as a month, I began to see major improvements. It was shocking. My hair filled in dramatically to the point where you wouldn't really notice I was losing hair. I'm not sure if this was regrowth. I do think that my hair thickened up considerably,  lost it's steel wool properties and began to resemble something that felt like healthy hair. This continued for several months. Around about the 6 month mark, things started to go pear shaped again and it simply lost efficacy. I kept on it anyway but it was a fruitless endeavour. Looks like it was the same for Hellouser and a few others I can think of. There's a reason they aren't on RU anymore after experiencing pretty mindblowing results and I suspect that it's because it simply stopped working. This is only my experience and everyone is different. For me, it didn't take very long to see improvements, but those improvements also came to a head rather quickly. For others, it may take some time and when you do get results, they may stick around longer than they did for me. No two bodies are the same.


 Interesting diffuseloser. Did you actually manage to stay at baseline and maintain though?

----------


## Tenma

Thanks for the response diffuseloser. 

Its surprising you got that kind of results from an antiandrogen. most people see improvement after 6-8 months and results tend to stabilize a few months later.

i started RU last january and things are working pretty good. Good maintenance and some rethickening of the nw 2-3 area

Maybe a little offtopic but i think the reason hellouser stopped ru was because of sides.

Keep in mind that maintaining hair is still a success but i understand is somewhat dissapointing to lose the gains.

----------


## diffuseloser

@Swooping 

Swoop, my hair was in pretty bad shape before I started RU. Hair loss was a typical diffuse pattern with recession at the temples. Scalp was very visible and had very noticeable difference in appearance to the sides and back of head which were dark and thick. This accentuated the loss I was suffering on top. All in all, a pretty dire state of affairs. I did not document my experience on RU with photos, but I can tell you that after a very short period of time, the top of my head began to blend in considerably well with the  back and sides. Almost to baseline but not quite. I managed to maintain for quite a few months, then started losing again. Maybe this was shedding, but I did persevere and those initial results didn't return. My hair returned to the state it was in prior to RU and I was unable to maintain. I'm not sure what happened. There were too many variables to put a finger on. I was somewhat slapdash with regards to my RU preparation. I often forgot to put it back in the freezer and such. This experience may have been down to my own carelessness. 

@Tenma

You're welcome. It's good to share the experiences we've had and come up with solutions. As I say, it was quite surprising that I experienced positive results with RU right off the bat. I may be incorrect in saying RU is a waste of money. I think there are many things I could have done better to give it a chance of succeeding. I am willing to give it another bash though and may do so now in the coming months. This time I will take a bit more care in the preparation and storage of RU to see if it makes any difference. My mixing method was lazy and did not require me to make very exact measurements. I generally mixed all my RU and minox from the start and stored the mixed bottles rather than preparing weekly doses. So this was my experience and wouldn't read into it too much as I don't think it's fair to say this is a very reliable experience. I wish you all the best of luck with your own and please do keep us posted.

----------


## Swooping

Thanks diffuseloser, interesting indeed. For me RU is still working after 2 years. However it did reach a plateau before the 1 year mark. Didn't notice any improvement after that. A user (Elevation) used RU58841 for 10 years before it stopped working for him. Just shows how people can react differently to treatments. I think everyone should realistically just expect only to maintain on a longer time period whether that is with a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor or an anti-androgen. Everything better than that is a plus. And some unlucky individuals won't even be able to maintain. RU58841 doesn't block all DHT binding from the androgen receptor. So just like some people are not able to maintain with finasteride not everyone will be able to maintain on RU.

----------


## warner8

Hi Swooping, are you using Ru with Minox? if so, how do you apply both? ru first till it dries, and then the liquid minox? once or twice a day? i am using 5% Ru in ethanol.glycol 





> Thanks diffuseloser, interesting indeed. For me RU is still working after 2 years. However it did reach a plateau before the 1 year mark. Didn't notice any improvement after that. A user (Elevation) used RU58841 for 10 years before it stopped working for him. Just shows how people can react differently to treatments. I think everyone should realistically just expect only to maintain on a longer time period whether that is with a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor or an anti-androgen. Everything better than that is a plus. And some unlucky individuals won't even be able to maintain. RU58841 doesn't block all DHT binding from the androgen receptor. So just like some people are not able to maintain with finasteride not everyone will be able to maintain on RU.

----------


## Swooping

> Hi Swooping, are you using Ru with Minox? if so, how do you apply both? ru first till it dries, and then the liquid minox? once or twice a day? i am using 5% Ru in ethanol.glycol


 I used it with kirkland minoxidil at 6%. Just mix it into it and apply once a day. Now I use it with ethanol/PG. Dropped minoxidil.

----------


## warner8

any reason why you dropped the minox? forgive me if I'm wrong as I'm new to this, but i thought Minox would enhance Ru, much like taking minox with fin





> I used it with kirkland minoxidil at 6%. Just mix it into it and apply once a day. Now I use it with ethanol/PG. Dropped minoxidil.

----------


## xLeox

just like diffuse loser, I've had the similar problem.  I've been using ru powder 5% 1 ml for 9 months on hairline and mid. (I also use fin 1 mg +  minox+antiandrogens lotion  1 hour after ru application). First 2-3 months I've had really good results. hairloss stopped, hair thickening and a moderate regrowth. after that, situation getting worse again. just last week switched to 8% 0,5 ml per day. let's see if I get improvements, although I doubt it.

----------


## warner8

results that fast between 2-3 months? I've been using it since sept 26 th, so approaching a month. not seeing anything yet, maybe even shedding as the scalp looks more bare than it did months prior. also on fin, and a 15% minox cream that I started in july of this year. wondering if th send is due to the higher strength minox or not....or is my DHT still overpowering my scalp despite being on it for over a year.




> just like diffuse loser, I've had the similar problem.  I've been using ru powder 5% 1 ml for 9 months on hairline and mid. (I also use fin 1 mg +  minox+antiandrogens lotion  1 hour after ru application). First 2-3 months I've had really good results. hairloss stopped, hair thickening and a moderate regrowth. after that, situation getting worse again. just last week switched to 8% 0,5 ml per day. let's see if I get improvements, although I doubt it.

----------


## xLeox

> results that fast between 2-3 months? I've been using it since sept 26 th, so approaching a month. not seeing anything yet, maybe even shedding as the scalp looks more bare than it did months prior. also on fin, and a 15% minox cream that I started in july of this year. wondering if th send is due to the higher strength minox or not....or is my DHT still overpowering my scalp despite being on it for over a year.


 yes, in such a short amount time I've had the best results. in just 2 weeks hairloss stopped and hair started get thicker.  my girlfriend made me notice that.  lasted few months, then temples and front thinning process took its tool again...

----------


## warner8

was yours from kane or anagogic?




> yes, in such a short amount time I've had the best results. in just 2 weeks hairloss stopped and hair started get thicker.  my girlfriend made me notice that.  lasted few months, then temples and front thinning process took its tool again...

----------


## Swooping

> any reason why you dropped the minox? forgive me if I'm wrong as I'm new to this, but i thought Minox would enhance Ru, much like taking minox with fin


 Jup it certainly did for me. I'm someone who responds good to minoxidil too. I dropped it because I changed my strategy (maintenance + HT). Don't necessarily need minoxidil now.

----------


## ghostrider

> results that fast between 2-3 months? I've been using it since sept 26 th, so approaching a month. not seeing anything yet, maybe even shedding as the scalp looks more bare than it did months prior. also on fin, and a 15% minox cream that I started in july of this year. wondering if th send is due to the higher strength minox or not....or is my DHT still overpowering my scalp despite being on it for over a year.


 
First month's you will deff notice some shedding. Weakened follicles will shed first just like with FINA. Month 3-6  you will notice stabilisation & perhaps slight thickening. Oc000459 is helpful against shedding from my experience & perhaps seti too.  Hope it helps mate

----------


## VegetaDBZ

> just like diffuse loser, I've had the similar problem.  I've been using ru powder 5% 1 ml for 9 months on hairline and mid. (I also use fin 1 mg +  minox+antiandrogens lotion  1 hour after ru application). First 2-3 months I've had really good results. hairloss stopped, hair thickening and a moderate regrowth. after that, situation getting worse again. just last week switched to 8% 0,5 ml per day. let's see if I get improvements, although I doubt it.


 Hi.....

Have you also had shed from month 1-9? 

I have more increase thickness front and stabilized.. But now I am shedding.

----------


## xLeox

> was yours from kane or anagogic?


 always from anagen. but I heard it's the same company, just with a different name.





> Hi.....
> 
> Have you also had shed from month 1-9? 
> 
> I have more increase thickness front and stabilized.. But now I am shedding.


 nope, I haven't noticed any sheeding during my first months of ru usage

----------


## VegetaDBZ

> nope, I haven't noticed any sheeding during my first months of ru usage


 Hmm.. Ok thank you.. Will just wait then...!

Hope it resolves fast! 

What vehicle did you use......?

----------


## garbage

I am on RU for 2 years now. Treatment has proved its effectivness for me. It stoped further loss, thickened existing hair, and even grew some of the hair back . It also helps weakened hair to grow longer than they could before. Ru is very good treatmen in my opinion, especially if you start using it eary enough. 

Ru platoued at 1.5 year mark, since then its maintaining.
One thing amazed me also, Ru manage to grow a single hair 2 cm below my current hairline (a place where my original hairline started), and hair is very thick and capable of growing a very high lenght.

----------


## warner8

can i ask what % ru you are using, and whether u mix yourself or buy it pre mixed. also were do you buy yours? 

I'm on the 5% pre mix from anagogic inc


 w


> I am on RU for 2 years now. Treatment has proved its effectivness for me. It stoped further loss, thickened existing hair, and even grew some of the hair back . It also helps weakened hair to grow longer than they could before. Ru is very good treatmen in my opinion, especially if you start using it eary enough. 
> 
> Ru platoued at 1.5 year mark, since then its maintaining.
> One thing amazed me also, Ru manage to grow a single hair 2 cm below my current hairline (a place where my original hairline started), and hair is very thick and capable of growing a very high lenght.

----------


## VegetaDBZ

Shedding stopped...! Hair seem fuller again.

Adding neogenic as vehicle now...!

Anyone know how long RU solution is stable for?

----------


## burtandernie

Its kind of funny how powerful AAs prove how strong androgens actually are in the MPB process. I mean even propecia is not a perfect ideal AA so more powerful AAs prove the extent to which MPB is androgen mediated process. Just a shame we dont have stronger/safer ways to do it topically or something verses blowing up someones entire endocrine system. Even RU is not for sure how safe it is from a systemic stand point

----------


## Mpbaway

Hey all 
I'm new to this forum hope you guys could enlighten me on treatments that actually work right now I'm using Finasteride lipogaine alone.. It's maintaining whatever that's on me right now what intrigues me is the ru58841 topical solution actually.. Just wondering since I'm really far off in Singapore right now will shipping ru be ideal I heard that ru doesn't last as long and 2 weeks so I'm having second thoughts to it. Any suggestions on this guys ? If I get a pre-mixed solution I highly doubt its efficacy by the time it reaches here.. However if I get the powder shipped here and it takes longer than usual 2 weeks will it still be effective if I mix it myself compared to getting the pre mixed solution ? Hope I get advises from all of you  :Smile: 

Cheers

----------


## Soonbald

I have heard results of guys using the "premixed" solution...it lasts more than 2 weeks u can Count on it.. I got a friend that got results from "premixed" im using premixed myself since I cant get my hands on the other ingredients here in sweden..we dont have strong alcohol here and I doubt I can get PG here even...I read a guy using the "ru powder" for 8 months and he didnt get ANY results whatsoever... I asked the Company that sells the "premixed" and they say its "stable for 6 months" in room temperature.. it even says that on the bottle...false information or not...I dunno...but I use up my RU bottle in like 1 week anyway...

----------


## doke

> I have heard results of guys using the "premixed" solution...it lasts more than 2 weeks u can Count on it.. I got a friend that got results from "premixed" im using premixed myself since I cant get my hands on the other ingredients here in sweden..we dont have strong alcohol here and I doubt I can get PG here even...I read a guy using the "ru powder" for 8 months and he didnt get ANY results whatsoever... I asked the Company that sells the "premixed" and they say its "stable for 6 months" in room temperature.. it even says that on the bottle...false information or not...I dunno...but I use up my RU bottle in like 1 week anyway...


 I have made my own ru and the premixed and find the premix better from kane shop as it uses the same mix as in the rousell French trials and also kane says the premix shelf life is 6 months you can also store it in the fridge if you say buy 2 bottles 5% is best to start with but they also do an 8%.
I find it can dry your scalp a bit so you can get over this with some conditioner after hair washing.
As to how many mls a day I use 1.5 to 2mls a day im also on finasteride which I take 5mgs twice a week.

----------


## Mpbaway

But the question is I live in Singapore shipping over may take weeks probably even 2-3 with shipping condition could the efficacy still even be present ? I'm curious pardon me for asking..

----------


## Cantona

Here you can read an interesting article: http://www.ru58841.info/ 

they clearly advice to be very careful with ru solutions, better to order the powder and make the mix

----------


## ghostrider

I have same experience as you doke.


Ru58841 is ultra  stable in solution form just like topical finasteride 

While back I found a 5% k&b solution  I had lost for over 6 months that had survived hot Dubai holiday.. It's still potent as hell. When I apply the solution it give same sides , also it kills the sebum  :Smile: 


I store my solutions just like minox at room temp.


I came across some user on hlh he used premixed 5& kb solutions with crazy thickening. 

People can experience sides shedding while on anti andeogens. Because they don't protect against external factors such as stress. Bad foods etc. For such sheddings pgd2 blockers are awsome. Combined with ru they stop overall sheddings.


I'm doing last batch oc . waiting it to run out, next week I replace with seti

----------


## diffuseloser

Time to hop on the RU bandwagon again. Will be starting this month at a higher %, 10 grams mixed to Kirkland minoxidil. Going in all guns blazing this time. Will let you all know how it goes. If this fails, it's definitely razor time.

----------


## bulli103

somebody who has hairloss, normally don`t only lose his hairs on top of the head, he loses all over the head (only on top, they don`t grow back so easily)....so how can ru58841 stop hairloss, when only the top of the head is treated......??....don`t makes much sence.....for me....

----------


## Soonbald

> somebody who has hairloss, normally don`t only lose his hairs on top of the head, he loses all over the head (only on top, they don`t grow back so easily)....so how can ru58841 stop hairloss, when only the top of the head is treated......??....don`t makes much sence.....for me....


 
im giving a last attempt with the RU.. im currently using 5% "kane" premixed RU 200mg a day "4ml" that I spray "all over my scalp" everywhere since im a diffuse thinner..I also dermaroll with a 2mm derma needle before applying the RU for better absorption.. im gonna give it at least 7-8 months.. if it fails well then im doomed...and this is the ONLY treatment I will be on...im not on FIN cuz my Eyes gets ****ed up from it!

----------


## doke

Hi guys im also using essengen 6% minoxidil that contains 0.5% finasteride and no az acid as I do not like formulas with az in they are too greasy and sticky.

----------


## Mpbaway

Hey guys.. recently posted on the efficacy of ru58841 but not sure if my question got skipped ? 
Anyway I decided to purchase ru58841 premixed solution from Kane shop as I heard good reviews about it but just to make sure can anyone here answer me on this? As I live in Singapore shipping ru here may take 3 weeks maybe even 4 will it lose its efficacy by the time it reaches here ? 

Will really appreciate it if someone could reply me so I could have a peace of mind and just go ahead with Kane shop solution.
And also what vehicle would go along well with the ru58841 pre mixed solution ? 

Hope to hear from you guys  :Smile:

----------


## burtandernie

What about buying RU from -http://www.aarc-chems.com/ru58841-liquid-solution since its a whole lot cheaper? Has anyone used it from here and had any results or tests to verify it? The kane/anagen website costs 25 to ship which is a bit high IMO when ground shipping is like 5-10 bucks.
I bet customs has a field day with this stuff ripping these apart to check that its a legit. I had some shampoo from germany I bought get ripped apart in the quest for drugs. I dont mind though its just part of their job and with the amount of drugs moving through there they have no choice

----------


## doke

> What about buying RU from -http://www.aarc-chems.com/ru58841-liquid-solution since its a whole lot cheaper? Has anyone used it from here and had any results or tests to verify it? The kane/anagen website costs 25 to ship which is a bit high IMO when ground shipping is like 5-10 bucks.
> I bet customs has a field day with this stuff ripping these apart to check that its a legit. I had some shampoo from germany I bought get ripped apart in the quest for drugs. I dont mind though its just part of their job and with the amount of drugs moving through there they have no choice


 I do know that a guy on another web site uses aarc but buys the ru raw powder and makes his own I have not used them as I like to use kanes premix that is in kb solution which I think was used in the French trials in the late 90s on stump tale monkeys.

----------


## ghostrider

> I have same experience as you doke.
> 
> 
> Ru58841 is ultra  stable in solution form just like topical finasteride 
> 
> While back I found a 5% k&b solution  I had lost for over 6 months that had survived hot Dubai holiday.. It's still potent as hell. When I apply the solution it give same sides , also it kills the sebum 
> 
> 
> I store my solutions just like minox at room temp.
> ...


 Hello mate mpbaway,

Your question wasn't ignored mate. See my last post.

I have tried several mixtures. Minox, raw powder in minox and premixed k&b solutions.


Premixed or self made kb solution remain the best for me. While of solutions give huge sheddings.

----------


## Amercancer

> im giving a last attempt with the RU.. im currently using 5% "kane" premixed RU 200mg a day "4ml" that I spray "all over my scalp" everywhere since im a diffuse thinner..I also dermaroll with a 2mm derma needle before applying the RU for better absorption.. im gonna give it at least 7-8 months.. if it fails well then im doomed...and this is the ONLY treatment I will be on...im not on FIN cuz my Eyes gets ****ed up from it!


  Do you think ru mess with eyes? I don't know but my eyes get blurry sometimes and irritating. Don't know what to do

----------


## gchr

i am not sure what to think, from other threads i read that RU is controlled mainly by 1 person overseas and generally there is no validity such as lab tests besides the occasional group buy.

How are we suppose to know we are getting the real deal besides taking someone's word on it?

seems like some users registered to promote usage of RU and no honest review yet

----------


## burtandernie

You dont. Its all a guessing game, but a few people tested the batches and they came back good. Its really all based off a few samples that got tested, but you still never know.

----------


## Swooping

> Time to hop on the RU bandwagon again. Will be starting this month at a higher %, 10 grams mixed to Kirkland minoxidil. Going in all guns blazing this time. Will let you all know how it goes. If this fails, it's definitely razor time.


 Diffuse, when I used kirkland with RU I managed to dissolve a maximum of  6-7% RU per ml. So in a bottle of 60ml kirkland this would be 3.6-4.2 gram of RU. The ethanol concentration of kirkland isn't really high. 6-7% is already really high though.

----------


## diffuseloser

Thanks Swoop. I got all I need here but haven't mixed it up yet. Just running things through in my head about what dosage to aim for and some other variables. I'm going to remove 3ml from each bottle of Kirkland and aim to replace this with about 3 gram of RU, maybe a little more. I used ethanol last time to boost the process but if it's not necessary, I'll not bother this time. What's your experience of using Kirkland a vehicle in a nutshell?

----------


## Swooping

> Thanks Swoop. I got all I need here but haven't mixed it up yet. Just running things through in my head about what dosage to aim for and some other variables. I'm going to remove 3ml from each bottle of Kirkland and aim to replace this with about 3 gram of RU, maybe a little more. I used ethanol last time to boost the process but if it's not necessary, I'll not bother this time. What's your experience of using Kirkland a vehicle in a nutshell?


 Kirkland worked well for me actually. Dirt cheap minoxidil, plus the vehicle didn't bother me at all (high amount of propylene glycol). Happy new year btw  :Smile: !

----------


## jamesst11

> Kirkland worked well for me actually. Dirt cheap minoxidil, plus the vehicle didn't bother me at all (high amount of propylene glycol). Happy new year btw !


 Swooping, 
   While we are on topicals, I though I'd ask your opinion, because you seem like a veteran of this and I know this may not be the appropriate thread but.. S5 cream (hairloss talk brand) ?  I know people have asked about this all over the boards, but I wanted to ask your opinion, as the others are so varied and few and far between. Have you tried it? Do you think the cream alone is enough to deliver transdermally, and, if so, do you think it's properties are strong enough to actually hold off other androgens? Finally, have you encountered any members that have verifiable proof of it working?  I am still so curious about spironolactone as a cream.. I do use it, and all I know is it helps eliminate scalp sensations.

----------


## diffuseloser

> Kirkland worked well for me actually. Dirt cheap minoxidil, plus the vehicle didn't bother me at all (high amount of propylene glycol). Happy new year btw !


 It worked well for me before so it makes sense to stick with it. Applied my first application last night so here's hoping I get some serious regrowth. Happy New Year man!

----------


## Swooping

> Swooping, 
>    While we are on topicals, I though I'd ask your opinion, because you seem like a veteran of this and I know this may not be the appropriate thread but.. S5 cream (hairloss talk brand) ?  I know people have asked about this all over the boards, but I wanted to ask your opinion, as the others are so varied and few and far between. Have you tried it? Do you think the cream alone is enough to deliver transdermally, and, if so, do you think it's properties are strong enough to actually hold off other androgens? Finally, have you encountered any members that have verifiable proof of it working?  I am still so curious about spironolactone as a cream.. I do use it, and all I know is it helps eliminate scalp sensations.


 James,

Spironolactone orally works very well as gauged by anecdotal evidence. But that will turn you slowly into a woman, so that isn't a really viable solution I guess lol.

I never used S5 cream, but I don't think it's strong enough. The anecdotal evidence of S5 cream is often that it slows down hair loss somewhat but isn't really potent enough to maintain. How did it work for you then? Do you feel that it has slowed your hair loss somewhat aside from the elimination of scalp sensations? 

And aren't you on finasteride? How are you doing with that?

----------


## jamesst11

> James,
> 
> Spironolactone orally works very well as gauged by anecdotal evidence. But that will turn you slowly into a woman, so that isn't a really viable solution I guess lol.
> 
> I never used S5 cream, but I don't think it's strong enough. The anecdotal evidence of S5 cream is often that it slows down hair loss somewhat but isn't really potent enough to maintain. How did it work for you then? Do you feel that it has slowed your hair loss somewhat aside from the elimination of scalp sensations? 
> 
> And aren't you on finasteride? How are you doing with that?


 My hair is such a cluster f*ck and I am taking too many things to properly gauge what works and what does not.  I have been on finasteride for almost 10 months now and my hair has simply become horrible diffused thin all over, to the point where it's almost impossible to style.  While on finasteride, the entire time I have experienced 1) hair line itch and small open sores 2) crawling feeling wherever the hair loss is initiated 3) extreme thinning of crown, to the point where it's now impossible to even comb over it.  

     That being said, at night when these sensations are at their worst, I apply minox to the area that's impacted the most by them, then spiro, straight out of the fridge about 5 minutes after.  The feeling definitely goes away completely for the night, then starts all over again in the morning.  I have only been doing this for a couple months, so it's hard to determine the exact impact it's having.  I know for fact that shedding has gon from about 80-100 hairs per day down to 30-50, because I am so damn meticulous and OCD that I count them.  Also "pull tests" reveal 1-2 hairs now, while before 5-6.  So, who know's right?  With our current treatments anything is somewhat of a guess. :/

----------


## Swooping

> My hair is such a cluster f*ck and I am taking too many things to properly gauge what works and what does not.  I have been on finasteride for almost 10 months now and my hair has simply become horrible diffused thin all over, to the point where it's almost impossible to style.  While on finasteride, the entire time I have experienced 1) hair line itch and small open sores 2) crawling feeling wherever the hair loss is initiated 3) extreme thinning of crown, to the point where it's now impossible to even comb over it.  
> 
>      That being said, at night when these sensations are at their worst, I apply minox to the area that's impacted the most by them, then spiro, straight out of the fridge about 5 minutes after.  The feeling definitely goes away completely for the night, then starts all over again in the morning.  I have only been doing this for a couple months, so it's hard to determine the exact impact it's having.  I know for fact that shedding has gon from about 80-100 hairs per day down to 30-50, because I am so damn meticulous and OCD that I count them.  Also "pull tests" reveal 1-2 hairs now, while before 5-6.  So, who know's right?  With our current treatments anything is somewhat of a guess. :/


 Damn that sucks mate. So finasteride doesn't seem to stabilize your hair at the moment.. I have seen some people that said that it took them 1 year before being stable with finasteride. It's perhaps an option to perform a HT in the future when you have stabilized your hair loss? I have seen some great results from good surgeons on people who lose their hair in a diffuse manner. Good luck man!

----------


## Mpbaway

Hi guys
I'm going ahead with purchasing ru58841 , 50ml in 5% K&b solution as carrier.. Anyone used this solution from Kane before and has experienced good results from it ? Alternatively your comments on this would help me a lot please advise me further also could the solution be mixed with minoxidil together and apply it one shot ? 

If we use ru and minoxidil together which solution goes first ? Ru applied on scalp topically first and wait for 15-20 mins before minoxidil application is that the procedure.

----------


## jamesst11

> Damn that sucks mate. So finasteride doesn't seem to stabilize your hair at the moment.. I have seen some people that said that it took them 1 year before being stable with finasteride. It's perhaps an option to perform a HT in the future when you have stabilized your hair loss? I have seen some great results from good surgeons on people who lose their hair in a diffuse manner. Good luck man!


 Hey swooping,
    Did these other people report drastic hair loss while on the medication for the first 10 months though?  I have never lost hair so fast in my life, it was like a perpetual TE.  The only conclusion I can draw from this is finasteride triggered aggressive feed back mechanisms, like hyperandro, or even something else.  I am not too surprised given my recent luck with my hair.  It literally feels like there is some God out there that is spiting me for being vain, and the more and more I try to remedy the situation, the worst it gets.  I am trying DUT now, which is something i never thought I would do.  Having a bad transplant, with a 5" scar on the back and losing most your hair in one year is the hardest thing I have ever dealt with, and I have been through some crazy shit.  It's a perpetual f*cking nightmare that won't end.  
     I am going to be using DUT .5mg every day and dermarolling with a compounded minoxidil cream that contains 15% minox, hydrocortisone, progesterone, .1% fin, and azeliac acid.  If that doesn't work in 8-10 months, then I am taking every ounce of my savings, shaving my head flying to turkey and doing one massive FUE with Erdogon.  Since I have dark, coarse hair and good donor, I would want him to create a decently thick hairline and then go diffused thin all the way back. I could live with that.  It would be A LOT better than what I have now.  time will tell.  My f*cking luck has to change at some point.

----------


## xLeox

> Hey swooping,
>     Did these other people report drastic hair loss while on the medication for the first 10 months though?  I have never lost hair so fast in my life, it was like a perpetual TE.  The only conclusion I can draw from this is finasteride triggered aggressive feed back mechanisms, like hyperandro, or even something else.  I am not too surprised given my recent luck with my hair.  It literally feels like there is some God out there that is spiting me for being vain, and the more and more I try to remedy the situation, the worst it gets.  I am trying DUT now, which is something i never thought I would do.  Having a bad transplant, with a 5" scar on the back and losing most your hair in one year is the hardest thing I have ever dealt with, and I have been through some crazy shit.  It's a perpetual f*cking nightmare that won't end.  
>      I am going to be using DUT .5mg every day and dermarolling with a compounded minoxidil cream that contains 15% minox, hydrocortisone, progesterone, .1% fin, and azeliac acid.  If that doesn't work in 8-10 months, then I am taking every ounce of my savings, shaving my head flying to turkey and doing one massive FUE with Erdogon.  Since I have dark, coarse hair and good donor, I would want him to create a decently thick hairline and then go diffused thin all the way back. I could live with that.  It would be A LOT better than what I have now.  time will tell.  My f*cking luck has to change at some point.


 Hey James. I can imagine you're going through a tough time. plus having a scar result of a bad past transplant definitely does not help. I read you're taking dutasteride. I'm not an expert on the subject and I can't really give any advices, but: if you're really sure about taking dut, you should consider lighting up the dose.  I heard people take one pill of dut every 5 days cause that's the active cycle of one single pill.  taking 5 mg every day is just too much and not necessary. I think if you ask doctors or even hair transplants surgeons, they'll tell you that. Now, I don't know your situation, but I would stick to finasteride and save for a future mega session fue (or, considering you already had one, a scar revision and a strip from an expert in the field like dr. wong or feriduni).

----------


## Swooping

> Hi guys
> I'm going ahead with purchasing ru58841 , 50ml in 5% K&b solution as carrier.. Anyone used this solution from Kane before and has experienced good results from it ? Alternatively your comments on this would help me a lot please advise me further also could the solution be mixed with minoxidil together and apply it one shot ? 
> 
> If we use ru and minoxidil together which solution goes first ? Ru applied on scalp topically first and wait for 15-20 mins before minoxidil application is that the procedure.


 Some people just get the powder and mix it into their minoxidil. Alternatively you can just wait between applications yes.




> Hey swooping,
>     Did these other people report drastic hair loss while on the medication for the first 10 months though?  I have never lost hair so fast in my life, it was like a perpetual TE.  The only conclusion I can draw from this is finasteride triggered aggressive feed back mechanisms, like hyperandro, or even something else.  I am not too surprised given my recent luck with my hair.  It literally feels like there is some God out there that is spiting me for being vain, and the more and more I try to remedy the situation, the worst it gets.  I am trying DUT now, which is something i never thought I would do.  Having a bad transplant, with a 5" scar on the back and losing most your hair in one year is the hardest thing I have ever dealt with, and I have been through some crazy shit.  It's a perpetual f*cking nightmare that won't end.  
>      I am going to be using DUT .5mg every day and dermarolling with a compounded minoxidil cream that contains 15% minox, hydrocortisone, progesterone, .1% fin, and azeliac acid.  If that doesn't work in 8-10 months, then I am taking every ounce of my savings, shaving my head flying to turkey and doing one massive FUE with Erdogon.  Since I have dark, coarse hair and good donor, I would want him to create a decently thick hairline and then go diffused thin all the way back. I could live with that.  It would be A LOT better than what I have now.  time will tell.  My f*cking luck has to change at some point.


 Damn man seems like you have had a very rough road james. Through the years I have seen some anecdotal reports of increased hair loss of people being on finasteride or dutasteride accompanied with androgenic side effects. Dench is a guy who is around these forums who has experienced that too to some extent and is left now with increased inflammation. Pretty crazy. I find it quite fascinating, seriously I have no idea why that happens. Did you find out the probable cause for such a reaction? I would be interested in hearing that. 

Hope you will find relieve eventually, I am sure you will mate. It's excellent that you have coarse donor hair. That can make such a BIG difference in terms of coverage when the grafts are transplanted. Keep strong!

----------


## cardib

Does freshly made RU (dissolved yourself) give better results than pre-made (mixed) versions. Anyone have any experience with this?

----------


## jamesst11

> Hey James. I can imagine you're going through a tough time. plus having a scar result of a bad past transplant definitely does not help. I read you're taking dutasteride. I'm not an expert on the subject and I can't really give any advices, but: if you're really sure about taking dut, you should consider lighting up the dose.  I heard people take one pill of dut every 5 days cause that's the active cycle of one single pill.  taking 5 mg every day is just too much and not necessary. I think if you ask doctors or even hair transplants surgeons, they'll tell you that. Now, I don't know your situation, but I would stick to finasteride and save for a future mega session fue (or, considering you already had one, a scar revision and a strip from an expert in the field like dr. wong or feriduni).


 that's .5mg a day - 5mg would be insane!

----------


## jamesst11

> Hey James. I can imagine you're going through a tough time. plus having a scar result of a bad past transplant definitely does not help. I read you're taking dutasteride. I'm not an expert on the subject and I can't really give any advices, but: if you're really sure about taking dut, you should consider lighting up the dose.  I heard people take one pill of dut every 5 days cause that's the active cycle of one single pill.  taking 5 mg every day is just too much and not necessary. I think if you ask doctors or even hair transplants surgeons, they'll tell you that. Now, I don't know your situation, but I would stick to finasteride and save for a future mega session fue (or, considering you already had one, a scar revision and a strip from an expert in the field like dr. wong or feriduni).


 Those are amazing HT docs, but have already decided that if I am going in for a mega session it would be with Erdogon.. his results and prices are indisputable. (no, I obviously am not affiliated with him)

----------


## Swooping

> Does freshly made RU (dissolved yourself) give better results than pre-made (mixed) versions. Anyone have any experience with this?


 Prostrakan wanted to launch RU actually in a topical formulation. Would be pretty stupid of them to realize afterwards that it is not stable in a solution. One of the closest compounds structurally similar, nilutamide is very stable too in a liquid suspension. Besides that a German forum member tested RU-58841 in solution and found it to be stable for 6 months. 

So yeah, there should be no difference. Getting the powder is cheaper and gives you more flexibility in the concentration though.

----------


## Seuxin

Never heard about nilutamide.
Some poeple use it for hair ??

----------


## burtandernie

Is Prostrakan still actively looking into launching RU in a topical like that? It seems a bit silly RU never released anywhere even in other parts of the world I mean the stuff seems to work. I just worry a little about the quality, and the safety since its more unknown than propecia really in the long run. In theory it should be safe, but who knows
I guess in my boat I just want prevention at the temples/hairline and fin doesnt seem to work that well there.

----------


## jamesst11

Hellouser,
     I am sure you've answered this somewhere in these hundred page's, but I can't read through all of them - You've been on RU now for a few years, correct?  can you briefly share your experience with it?  Do you believe it has helped you maintain what you have?  Any regrowth?  inflammation?  I want to pull the trigger on this and use as my primary topical WITH DUT, which is insane, but I have no damn choice anymore.  I am going out swinging. ANY personal experience details are appreciated man!!  :Smile:

----------


## jamesst11

Hellouser,
     I am sure you've answered this somewhere in these hundred page's, but I can't read through all of them - You've been on RU now for a few years, correct?  can you briefly share your experience with it?  Do you believe it has helped you maintain what you have?  Any regrowth?  inflammation?  I want to pull the trigger on this and use as my primary topical WITH DUT, which is insane, but I have no damn choice anymore!  I am going out swinging. ANY personal experience details are appreciated man!!  :Smile:

----------


## burtandernie

Has anyone on RU had before/after hormone tests and seen whether RU actually goes systemic at all or not? Hopefully a company takes RU and does a little more research on it or finishes it. Where have all the topicals gone?

----------


## jamesst11

> Has anyone on RU had before/after hormone tests and seen whether RU actually goes systemic at all or not? Hopefully a company takes RU and does a little more research on it or finishes it. Where have all the topicals gone?


 Good question

----------


## Boldy

Anyone else noticing difference in terms of sides with the ST johns wort protocol? I started 25-30MG/ a day again this week only at the hairline. I had to take a break from all treatments for the past months, and this is definitely noticeable behind the HT hairline.
25-30 Mg seems fine if i take about 900-1200 Mg st johns (brand name: Eclectic Institute).

----------


## jamesst11

Has anyone stopped fin or dut, because they are non-responders, and switched soley to just RU and minoxidil?  Have you read any accounts of this?  I am in a horrible spot.  Fin literally f*cked my hair to all hell, for 11 months.  I have been using DUT for a month now and just have this gut feeling it will make things worst.  I also have RU and 15% minox in my aresenal.  Should I just drop the orals and go topical?

----------


## mic28

Hi James, 

As you know I am in a very similar situation to yourself. Losing a lot of hair on finasteride and stopped. Hair improved briefly when I stopped and then I lost a lot and gained a bald spot over a couple months. I am now off finasteride about 5 months and things have stabilised in the last couple of months.
I have been on RU for around a month and a half, although I have been playing about with different concentrations and mixtures. I had some brief success over a few days where I halted hair loss, no itching at all. Then it started up again however I don't seem to be too badly off and may even be improving slightly. Will stick with my regime for a couple more months before i make conclusions.

Was going to see how yourself and Ziggy faired on DUT and possibly give that a try

----------


## jamesst11

it's too early to tell, but I am still losing.  It's only been about a month on DUT.  I am just losing my damn mind here.  My hair is horrible, like not effin normal anymore.  It has become too much work to conceal all the thinning areas.  I just got my RU and am going to pick up the alcohol tomorrow (have everything else).  I need to shave my f*cking head bald.  I am so f*cking exhausted and frustrated.  I don't know how people survive through this shit, especially after having a transplant.

----------


## mic28

I know how you feel James, I am going to get my hair cut again today and dreading looking at the top of my head in the mirror. I firmly believe this is seborrheic Dermatitis from the change in hormones from the finasteride. How to get rid of it is beyond me. I've tried everything

----------


## jamesst11

> I know how you feel James, I am going to get my hair cut again today and dreading looking at the top of my head in the mirror. I firmly believe this is seborrheic Dermatitis from the change in hormones from the finasteride. How to get rid of it is beyond me. I've tried everything


 Mic, you have any issue fully dissolving your RU in solution?? I don't know if it's because I keep the PG and alcohol in the fridge or what.  I mixed my first batch today, and while most dissolved, I still had some floaters.  I am praying that by leaving it in the freezer, it won't re-solidify.  That sh*t is expensive.

----------


## mic28

Yeh James I still get the odd floaters but I'm not sure if that matters too much since most of it is dissolved. 
Anyway, got my hair cut and I seem to keep losing. I upped my RU to 100mg over 2ml so going to see how that goes for a bit...go in hard.

----------


## mic28

I am also yet to get back on topical minoxidil. Want to give RU another couple of months so I know what is working etc before I throw that in.

----------


## jamesst11

100mg/2ml is only 5%... were you on a smaller dose before?  I personally think it's good to start off higher and kick start the process then gradually reduce.  Perhaps my thinking is backwards though....

----------


## mic28

I understand what you mean. The way I see it though is it is more about quantity of RU getting to the scalp rather than %. The only reason I have gone with 2ml is to get full coverage that I can't get off 1ml. 
I am getting the odd positive days where RU is having an effect, however these are overshadowed by days with high hair loss.
Definitely the more I think about it, the it hire my head gets therefore I believe so much of it is psychological

----------


## xLeox

I quit using ru.  I've been using it for one year and 2 months by now.  stopped working 6 months ago at least. started using at 5%. last 3 months been using it at 8%, situation kept getting worse. too bad, cause first 3/4 months it gave me great results.

----------


## Seuxin

Does this change correspond to another RU batch ??

----------


## jjo

> I quit using ru.  I've been using it for one year and 2 months by now.  stopped working 6 months ago at least. started using at 5%. last 3 months been using it at 8%, situation kept getting worse. too bad, cause first 3/4 months it gave me great results.


 where were you buying it from? maybe you got a bad batch

----------


## xLeox

> where were you buying it from? maybe you got a bad batch


 always bought it from the same supplier, anageninc.  it's not a problem of batch. in my case, after a few months, just stopped working, simple as that.

----------


## hairsugeon

ANy guys who maintained on ru for more than 2 years? I'm thinking about buying it from purlab and mixing it in ethanol myself...

----------


## jamesst11

I am having an issue getting Kane's RU to dissolve in solution!! anyone help?? My solution consists of a 70/30 alcohol to PG ratio and I am using 96% alcohol.  I had it in the freezer for the first weeks batch and when I got to the end of it, I found a lot of it all clumped up at the bottom... waste of damn RU and a waste of a damn week.  What gives???

----------


## mic28

James, 

I don't seem to have this problem with dissolving. I leave mine in the freezer aswell. Are you still having success? Mine worked for a while (couple days) and then back to normal. Trying to work out where I have gone wrong

----------


## jamesst11

> James, 
> 
> I don't seem to have this problem with dissolving. I leave mine in the freezer aswell. Are you still having success? Mine worked for a while (couple days) and then back to normal. Trying to work out where I have gone wrong


 Who knows... I suppose I will just stop counting hairs and re-evaluate in a couple months.  I left the alcohol at room temp and it seemed to dissolve better.

----------


## mic28

I saw a massive difference in the couple of days that I stopped shedding. Literally not a single hair fall and no itchiness whatsoever. Good for the couple of days that it lasted. I could really tell yeh difference between shedding and not shedding

----------


## MindfluX

I am able to buy RU58841 and CB-03-01 from a vendor in China for $ 150 and $ 800 respectively for 10 G each.

Is this a good price?

Is it possible to buy a great vehicle for CB-03-01 if I am not a member of the private forum. Or,... where can I get the best vehicles for both products at this moment?

I already have a professional 0.1mg analytical balance Mettler Toledo, and I am used to working with chemicals.

----------


## MindfluX

I am able to buy RU58841 and CB-03-01 from a vendor in China for $150 and $800 respectively for 10 G each, no groupbuy needed. Is this a good price?

Is it possible to get a goood vehicle for CB-03-01 if I am not a member of the private forum here? Or,... where can I get an effective vehicle for this one.

I already have a professional 0.1mg analytical balance Mettler Toledo, and I am used to working with chemicals.

----------


## hairsugeon

Hello guys, i'm having trouble getting ethanol in my country... Can't find anything, its forbidden to sell it here... Any ideas if rubbing alcohol would be good? I found a place to buy it, but they are saying that it is dangerous and you should always wear gloves when working with it... So maybe that would be too harsh on my scalp? any other ideas for vechile?

----------


## jamesst11

> I am able to buy RU58841 and CB-03-01 from a vendor in China for $150 and $800 respectively for 10 G each, no groupbuy needed. Is this a good price?
> 
> Is it possible to get a goood vehicle for CB-03-01 if I am not a member of the private forum here? Or,... where can I get an effective vehicle for this one.
> 
> I already have a professional 0.1mg analytical balance Mettler Toledo, and I am used to working with chemicals.


 The question is - do you trust that it's pure?

----------


## Swooping

> Hello guys, i'm having trouble getting ethanol in my country... Can't find anything, its forbidden to sell it here... Any ideas if rubbing alcohol would be good? I found a place to buy it, but they are saying that it is dangerous and you should always wear gloves when working with it... So maybe that would be too harsh on my scalp? any other ideas for vechile?


 Do you live in NA or EU?

----------


## hairsugeon

Eu..

----------


## Swooping

> Eu..


 You can order here; http://www.ebay.de/itm/1L-Primasprit...QAAOxycmBS2SnZ

Or here;

https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/p/...irit-95-polmos

----------


## hairsugeon

Swoop, i have manated to get my Ethanol, my PG is arriving but i got some KB so i'm mixing Ehanol with KB right now, how can i know if RU58841 is effective for me? Or how can i know if i even legit RU? First day i used around 4 ml ( i made 10 ml with 250mg of RU) no sides, yesterday before sleep i used 2 ml, and today's morning i used 2ml. No sides still.

----------


## diffuseloser

> Swoop, i have manated to get my Ethanol, my PG is arriving but i got some KB so i'm mixing Ehanol with KB right now, how can i know if RU58841 is effective for me? Or how can i know if i even legit RU? First day i used around 4 ml ( i made 10 ml with 250mg of RU) no sides, yesterday before sleep i used 2 ml, and today's morning i used 2ml. No sides still.


 There is no way to know except to get it independently tested. If you got it from Kane or Anagen Inc, I wouldn't worry. You have just got to stick with it to find out if it works for you. I've never had any sides off RU.

----------


## hairsugeon

Did it work for you btw?

----------


## Swooping

> Swoop, i have manated to get my Ethanol, my PG is arriving but i got some KB so i'm mixing Ehanol with KB right now, how can i know if RU58841 is effective for me? Or how can i know if i even legit RU? First day i used around 4 ml ( i made 10 ml with 250mg of RU) no sides, yesterday before sleep i used 2 ml, and today's morning i used 2ml. No sides still.


 10ml with 250mg equals to a 2.5% solution. So if you use 2ml that is 50mg and 4ml 100mg. Many people don't get side effects on RU. 

You just need to use it longer and evaluate how well it works for you. I personally use a 5% solution though. 2.5% is quite weak. The human clinical trials were run with a 5% solution also.

----------


## diffuseloser

> Did it work for you btw?


 First time round, it definitely worked at least for a while but I got sloppy with my applications and that's probably why it lost efficacy. I've been back on it again now for several months and my hair certainly hasn't gotten any worse but I don't see any noticeable regrowth as yet. It's too early to tell but I will keep you updated.

----------


## Iron

Diffuse have you aggressive hair loss? For how many years are you balding? I'm struggling shall I go for fina or ru58841. Fina give shedding to hairline first months.. Will ru give similar shedding at start ?
Much questions sorry  :Smile:

----------


## iaskdumbquestions

I bought the premixed solution with PG> Is it recommended to store in freezer?

----------


## diffuseloser

> Diffuse have you aggressive hair loss? For how many years are you balding? I'm struggling shall I go for fina or ru58841. Fina give shedding to hairline first months.. Will ru give similar shedding at start ?
> Much questions sorry


 Not so much in the beginning. I reckon I was around 23 when I first noticed it. Over the next 4 years or so, I gradually lost hair at my temples and hair started to get wispy and unhealthy on the top. It worsened and really started bugging me when my scalp became really visible. I had been on minoxidil for a couple of years but can't say it did much of anything except cause a mess. During this time, I did as much research as I can but it was a minefield and hearing too many conflicting reports about various drugs and potions, I decided to ride it out and try to educate myself a bit and assess my options. I settled on RU as it seemed to be the best of very few options at the time. I prefer topical treatments over pills and the results some people have had speak for themselves. I can't say I've achieved quite the same results, but I'm sticking with it. I'm 30 now. I can't advise you on which is best for you but you have to decide if you're willing to take the risk with fin. Maybe RU also has its risks although less documented. I personally have heard very little negative about it. As for the shedding, you have to be prepared for that to happen on either treatment. Different people react differently. I didn't shed so much but also didn't see great regrowth. Some people shed a lot in the beginning then experience great regrowth.

----------


## Iron

> Not so much in the beginning. I reckon I was around 23 when I first noticed it. Over the next 4 years or so, I gradually lost hair at my temples and hair started to get wispy and unhealthy on the top. It worsened and really started bugging me when my scalp became really visible. I had been on minoxidil for a couple of years but can't say it did much of anything except cause a mess. During this time, I did as much research as I can but it was a minefield and hearing too many conflicting reports about various drugs and potions, I decided to ride it out and try to educate myself a bit and assess my options. I settled on RU as it seemed to be the best of very few options at the time. I prefer topical treatments over pills and the results some people have had speak for themselves. I can't say I've achieved quite the same results, but I'm sticking with it. I'm 30 now. I can't advise you on which is best for you but you have to decide if you're willing to take the risk with fin. Maybe RU also has its risks although less documented. I personally have heard very little negative about it. As for the shedding, you have to be prepared for that to happen on either treatment. Different people react differently. I didn't shed so much but also didn't see great regrowth. Some people shed a lot in the beginning then experience great regrowth.


 Thanks for long explanation dude!

How do you mix your ru ' with k&b?

I try to avoid pg because bad skin reaction

----------


## Soonbald

been using RU for like 4 months now it doesnt seem to do anything...hairline continues to receede...I use up to 300mg of RU everyday..and I pretty much drain my scalp with it..dermaroll and rubb it in hard no results at all..I doubt this RU even works.. some say it works "Amazing" and some say it doesnt work at all or that it stops working.. minoxidill doesnt work for me either..and finasteride ruins my Eyes...I cant take anything to stop my hairloss this really sux...

----------


## VegetaDBZ

Hi......

Been using RU last months and a am very pleased with... Hair much thicker and no hair loss anymore...  

But last month i am shedding very much. 

Can anyone help who has been in same situation??? Thank you..

----------


## Soonbald

vegeta..whats your routine? how much RU do you use and what do you mix your RU in? ethanol/pg? and do you dermaroll your scalp? you are probably shedding because RU stopped working seems to happen to many guys I read...

----------


## telogen

300 mg each day?? Damn son, be carefull, that's a lot. In my experience upping the dose doesn't work. When RU start to lose it's effect, it's over. Initially, i managed to maintain on 30 mg, but months after it was all downhill from there with whatever dose i was using. I'm now starting on CB.

----------


## VegetaDBZ

> vegeta..whats your routine? how much RU do you use and what do you mix your RU in? ethanol/pg? and do you dermaroll your scalp? you are probably shedding because RU stopped working seems to happen to many guys I read...


 Hi Soonbald...

RU 1 time daily 100mg 2ml in ethanol & PG... 

My hair is doing well again now maybe it was temporary shedding...? 

You use with dermaroll? Is for better absorption..?

----------


## Mickael

I have been on RU 5% pg for the last 3 month and I my hair is now thicker.

I tried RU in the K&B solution for about 10 months prior and I had absolutely no results. I only started to see immediate regrowth when I switched to pg + ethanol. K&B solution doesn't provide enough absorption to be effective from my experience, everyone should absolutely use the PG + ethanol solution if you hope to make RU effective, don't lose your time like I did with K&B.

I haven't experienced any obvious side effects yet.

From what I understand, RU works in cycle of about 6 months. You won't see any results after 6 months until months later, this might be why some people think RU become ineffective.

----------


## PinotQ

> I have been on RU 5% pg for the last 3 month and I my hair is now thicker.
> 
> I tried RU in the K&B solution for about 10 months prior and I had absolutely no results. I only started to see immediate regrowth when I switched to pg + ethanol. K&B solution doesn't provide enough absorption to be effective from my experience, everyone should absolutely use the PG + ethanol solution if you hope to make RU effective, don't lose your time like I did with K&B.
> 
> I haven't experienced any obvious side effects yet.
> 
> From what I understand, RU works in cycle of about 6 months. You won't see any results after 6 months until months later, this might be why some people think RU become ineffective.


 Michael, Where do you get your RU and what is the mixture of ethanol to PG....70% to 30%?  And do you mix daily?

----------


## Mickael

I'm using the premixed version from anagen. I always keep the bottle in the fridge.

----------


## VegetaDBZ

This month I try to do 150mg in 2ml.... 

Hope I will get more improvement.

Someone know maybe if I can travel with RU? How to do this......?

----------


## Iron

I have purchased 3% k&b solution because I can't handle the ppg. I have found most people use 5% strength  is there reason for this choice?

----------


## MindfluX

It seems to be that particles of medium size penetrate deeper into the hair follicles than smaller or larger particles. Anyone here know what the particle size is of RU58841 in nm?

----------


## MindfluX

Are you guys 100% sure the RU58841 dissolves 100% without heating it up?

Did anyone here ever tried to heat up the ethanol and RU58841?

Like with a magnetic stirrer with heat up function using a borosilicate spout up to 45 °C / 113 °F.

----------


## Swooping

> Are you guys 100% sure the RU58841 dissolves 100% without heating it up?
> 
> Did anyone here ever tried to heat up the ethanol and RU58841?
> 
> Like with a magnetic stirrer with heat up function using a borosilicate spout up to 45 °C / 113 °F.


 RU58841 should dissolve in pure ethanol pretty easily.

----------


## Logan

Hi Swoop

I am thinking of starting RU regime because i took fin for 7 days and i hvn't got slightest of erection during that time. So i quit fin, it may be nocebo effect or whatever can't take risk.
So my question is that is RU still working for you ? How long you have been on it ? I will mix my RU in 60ml minoxidil. How much shud i mix?

----------


## doke

Hi I mixed my latest ru powder with Kirkland minox and then shake bottle for 5 mins then put into the fridge overnight then before using give it a shake before every application.

----------


## Logan

How much RU powder did you put in minox ( 60ml) ?

----------


## doke

> How much RU powder did you put in minox ( 60ml) ?


 Hi Logan I put in 3 grams=5% ru the only problem has been that I got some ice in the minox the next day so maybe Kirkland minox may have less pg in it and water froze also some dissolve problems.
I think that a good shake solves this everytime but its not as clear as a premix pure ru I have made with ethanol alcohol so next batch I make I may go back to that mix.
I wonder if rogaine lotion would have mixed better but that's expensive and Kirkland seems less greasy to me.
I asked kane about a premix of ru I bought that was 8% and when dryed on scalp it left a white residue and he said that at the higher strength it does this I am getting a slight residue with the minox mix but not too bad.
I remember using minoxidil with progesterone and that left white powder on scalp which was worse than ru so putting that on and going out was like having a white scalp.

----------


## Logan

> Hi Logan I put in 3 grams=5% ru the only problem has been that I got some ice in the minox the next day so maybe Kirkland minox may have less pg in it and water froze also some dissolve problems.
> I think that a good shake solves this everytime but its not as clear as a premix pure ru I have made with ethanol alcohol so next batch I make I may go back to that mix.
> I wonder if rogaine lotion would have mixed better but that's expensive and Kirkland seems less greasy to me.
> I asked kane about a premix of ru I bought that was 8% and when dryed on scalp it left a white residue and he said that at the higher strength it does this I am getting a slight residue with the minox mix but not too bad.
> I remember using minoxidil with progesterone and that left white powder on scalp which was worse than ru so putting that on and going out was like having a white scalp.


 Hi doke,

Thanks for your reply. I am also in two minds of whether buying a premixed one 5% or mix myself. I guess i will try premix first for few days and see if it works, if not may be i will mix myself. 
I was being lazy to apply two topicals so thought of mixing both into one.
How it is going for you ? any improvement in hairs after using RU ?

----------


## doke

As im in my 50s and receading like a horse shoe since my 20s im lucky to have some hair still but over the years my topicals were on and off application wise due to being lazy fed up with applying twice a day.
But I am beginning to cease hair in the drain again with the minox with ru mixed which is easy all in one and still use the threadome lh80 laser helmet.
I had a scalp infection which has also been a problem which I think is linked to pattern loss which my gp prescribed benovate steroid and that lotion helps.
I think that inflammatory problems is part of mpb and if this could be cured long term then hair may recover so jak inhibitors or the arthritis drug maybe what we need and perhaps minox and ru will be forgotten.
Like many here and on other hairloss sites we really want a cure and to grow back what we have lost which what im using is not doing,that guy that had alopecia  and the derma prescribed arthritis drug for psoriasis he was shiny bald all over scalp and regrew a thick head of hair in over three weeks which was amazing. But will it work for mpb we are not sure yet and due to the cost of these drugs and maybe a safety issue unless we can apply it topically its a shame its many years away for many of us.
Im wondering now is ru and cb topical dht inhibitors any good at all although some have had good results with ru with minoxidil they also had mass shedding at times.
I for many years have just got more confused what to keep using when results are not seen until we see someone like i said get a massive hair regrowth.
I will keep you informed of any changes to my hair regrowth and keep using my minox ru combo and theradome.

----------


## Logan

Okay. Baldness runs in my family. My father and younger brother are bald. I have saved my hair with minox but it could not stop my thinning. So i tried fin for 7 days but i was too anxious and was continuously thinking about sides. Haven't got erections during those days. Can be due to anxiety but i quit it anyway. So was searching for another option which i can try to decrease the rate of my thinning. Only RU seems promising. Man we reached Moon but we don't know how to grow hair, damn.

----------


## Swooping

> Hi Swoop
> 
> I am thinking of starting RU regime because i took fin for 7 days and i hvn't got slightest of erection during that time. So i quit fin, it may be nocebo effect or whatever can't take risk.
> So my question is that is RU still working for you ? How long you have been on it ? I will mix my RU in 60ml minoxidil. How much shud i mix?


 Try lowering your dosage man with finasteride, perhaps that will help. 0.2mg ED or 0.5mg EOD. 

Yes, I used RU for a total of over 2 years now in various dosages. Maintenance + thickening.

And yeah doke already explained how to mix  :Smile: , you can also make smaller batches if you want.

----------


## Logan

Thanks for the advise Swoop.

----------


## burtandernie

Swoop what are your thoughts based off everything you know about the long term safety of fin? Things like say inhibiting neurosteroids in the brain, and some of the negative things about it in recent studies. I am still a little nervous about the idea of using it.

----------


## Swooping

> Swoop what are your thoughts based off everything you know about the long term safety of fin? Things like say inhibiting neurosteroids in the brain, and some of the negative things about it in recent studies. I am still a little nervous about the idea of using it.


 Don't really have much thoughts about that. I guess some get side effects, but upon discontinuation they almost always resolve. In extremely rare cases then perhaps it can be long lasting.. Hard to say.

----------


## burtandernie

Okay so overall you think its still pretty overwhelmingly safe to use long term then.

----------


## 79BirdofPrey

Hello men,

I'd like to explore using RU58841. I have a decent amount of hair left, but I have thinned greatly. I also like to wear my hair long. Please see the attached pictures.

How do I properly apply the product in a case like this, so that it reaches the scalp evenly and doesn't just sit on the hair? Thank you!

----------


## Jasari

Not sure if this has been posted, but I did a quick google of RU58841 and I found this site: http://anageninc.com/ru58841-solution-50ml.html - Is this a pre-mixted ready to use solution?

I am absolutely hopeless at science/chemistry, so there isn't much chance that I would mix my own batches, but if there was something available to buy [And ready to use]- I would really love to get off fin.

----------


## RU58841

> Not sure if this has been posted, but I did a quick google of RU58841 and I found this site: http://anageninc.com/ru58841-solution-50ml.html - Is this a pre-mixted ready to use solution?
> 
> I am absolutely hopeless at science/chemistry, so there isn't much chance that I would mix my own batches, but if there was something available to buy [And ready to use]- I would really love to get off fin.


 
See my post about this here: https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/thread...l=1#post238336

----------


## Jasari

> See my post about this here: https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/thread...l=1#post238336


 Interesting. The price seems to have dropped significantly. I remember when it was something like $500 for a weeks worth.

----------


## darkknight12

Hi Guys, 
Apologies for the slight change in subject but I'm praying one of you genius' can provide some insight at your earliest convenience! 

So I had my first hair transplant 4 days ago (1500grafts), at the farjo clinic and it went very well. For the past 9 months I have been on Ramatroban and touch wood, it has stopped pretty much all of my shedding. 
The big question is, when should I continue to use it? 
I have been using on the specific areas that don't have grafts around however the transplant was around the front of my head/ hairline and there are number of areas which haven't needed to be grafted on but I can't put the Ramatroban on due to the surrounding grafts. In the mean time I am using propecia for these next couple of weeks to try and prevent any further loss. (I don't usually use the propecia due to awful past side effects) 


Apologies for the long message and any advice would be hugely appreciated.

----------


## dm90

In the medical community fin is considered such a benign drug.  Almost anyone looking to get a script for it can because of this reason.  I always find it strange that the consensus is "doctors don't know anything about hairloss" in truth they know more than anyone, unfortunately its just not really taken seriously by most.  Medical training is unlike anything in developing critical thinking based on hard science.  So many refrain from taking fin because of potential unproven side effects when its such a effective hairloss treatment.  Yes Fin is GREAT at treating hairloss.  And persistent sexual side effects aren't something that's completely new.  Look at SSRI's.  Those are KNOWN to cause persistent sexual sides in some individuals.

----------


## dm90

Part your hair and use a minoxidil applicator.  If you feel the liquid make contact with your scalp youre good.  Do a few lines from top to back and rub it in.

----------


## Pasbrillantebrunette

Hi Guys, 

Sorry for my bad english, i am a french young girl ( a brunette) and i would like to try RU. I'am already on minox one a day (for a girl i find it too hard to put it on morning, especially if you have long hair). I'd like to know if any girl on this forum is on RU and if so, what can you tell me about side effects ? Are they different for women ? 
I must admit I don't understand everything on this forum because my english is not good, for instance I don(t know how to get RU, dosage, etc. But I am ready to do efforts and get it if it's also efficient on girls (and at long term !). 

Thank you for your help and good luck everybody.

Pasbrillantebrunette

----------


## Hairless84

Hello

im in same position as you. i have read maybe 100 threads about this last couple of days and i will make my order tomorrow. I still have some question unanswered but i hope they will until the product arrives. I live in sweden and dont know how long time it will take. 

http://www.thekaneshop.com/

You can order from there, a lot of people recommend Kane

----------


## Pasbrillantebrunette

Hey Hairless84, 

Just read that CB is cheaper better than RU and with no side effects... Maybe we should have started with that, no ?

----------


## Hairless84

> Hey Hairless84, 
> 
> Just read that CB is cheaper better than RU and with no side effects... Maybe we should have started with that, no ?


 Better how? and what is CB? Im a male 32 years old so i prefer not taking anything that can mess with my hormones...what is the sides of RU?

----------


## JDW

Ok to the experts out there, couple of quick questions. I've purchased the pre-mixed version from anageninc and plan on applying it once a day. How much should I be applying a day? I've read the guide at the start but this is obviously not pre-mixed so will be different. Anyone got any experiences with the pre-mixed? tips etc? Cheers in advance

----------


## Pasbrillantebrunette

"Ok to the experts out there, couple of quick questions. I've purchased the pre-mixed version from anageninc and plan on applying it once a day. How much should I be applying a day? I've read the guide at the start but this is obviously not pre-mixed so will be different. Anyone got any experiences with the pre-mixed? tips etc? Cheers in advance " + 1

Besides, I have some questions you (Hellouser, Swooping, all the big boss of RU) will be really kind to help me with. Since I am a girl, girls who share my problem don't really communicate about it. There is less solidarity I think. 

If I purchase the premixed version from Anageninc, can I mix it with my Minoxidil, so I coold apply it all at once (can't put things on my head in the morning and tehn got o work/ I have long hairs, it's really ugly just after minox) ?
If not, can I put RU on my head and put the minoix right after, or the other way ? 
What size of dermaroller should I purshase ? Don't you fear, by dermarolling, all those products finally go systemic ?

Think you all for the answer you can get me. I'm really lost, and in France less people are willing to try things (don't know why), especially the girls.

----------


## Swooping

@Pasbrillantebrunette,

The human clinical trial of RU58841 was ran at a 5% concentration. Just do a google search and you'll find tons of information.

Have you looked into E2 angle?

----------


## Pasbrillantebrunette

@swooping

Hello. What's E2 angle ? 
To my mind, the problem is there are too much informations about everything, we can't manage to do the right and safe choice. 
I am gonna purchase the premixed anageninc RU and to put it to my scalp 3 hours after Minox. Hope i'll some regrowth, cause right now it's really bad. 

Thank you

----------


## Pasbrillantebrunette

@ Swooping

You seem to know well RU. 

Here is my problem : 
Can I buy RU powder from anageninc, put 3g in 60ml Minox 5 % bottle (keeping the bottle in the freege) and apply 2ml per day at night ;

OR should I purchase premixed RU from anageninc, and put 1ml per day on my sclap, like 1 hour I've put 2 ml minox (or is that too much). 
I don(t even know if I really can buy RU from anageninc since I am in France. 

Thank you for answering me and all the advices I can get.

----------


## oldschoolplaya

> Someone should apply a little to their beard, or body hair somewhere like an arm to see over a few months what it does. Assuming its all working I would expect a powerful AA like RU to have some real effect on facial hair or body hair if it alters all androgens from binding with the follicles. Should work on any hair not just head hair. I mean in theory your talking almost castration levels of androgens its a pretty powerful substance although its all depending on how pure and potent the chemical they are selling actually is.


 I tried this with RU on a patch of arm hair for four months.  One drop was applied to the same spot once a day.  No hair was shed.  I would think that would be plenty of time for the follicle to shed once in the telegen phase if RU blocks testosterone.  

I'm beginning to think it does not block testosterone.  Maybe only blocks the specific form, DHT.

----------


## kadze

Hi guys, i was taking ru for half a year (fairly low dosages). As a result I got agglutination of semen. So if you on the hedge, bear in mind that it does affect your semen

----------


## Swooping

> @swooping
> 
> Hello. What's E2 angle ? 
> To my mind, the problem is there are too much informations about everything, we can't manage to do the right and safe choice. 
> I am gonna purchase the premixed anageninc RU and to put it to my scalp 3 hours after Minox. Hope i'll some regrowth, cause right now it's really bad. 
> 
> Thank you


 Sorry not on this site often anymore. E2= estrogen.

----------


## JulioGP

I´m thinking about to try Anagen Inc RU58841 Solution 50ML. Anyone here got good results with this or only the Kane´s RU is good?

Thank you.

----------


## Soonbald

> I´m thinking about to try Anagen Inc RU58841 Solution 50ML. Anyone here got good results with this or only the Kane´s RU is good?
> 
> Thank you.


 anagen inc is KANE. when I get my package from anagen inc it says something like "anagen inc kane"

----------


## UK_

Seems the RU bandwagon has kind of gone quiet - not sure why!   None of the old posters who tried the stuff years ago are posting anymore.

----------


## JulioGP

> Seems the RU bandwagon has kind of gone quiet - not sure why!   None of the old posters who tried the stuff years ago are posting anymore.


 This is really weird. I would love to see the results. This post started in 2013 and so far, there are no recent photos of results.

----------


## Soonbald

> This is really weird. I would love to see the results. This post started in 2013 and so far, there are no recent photos of results.


 well...yes its not good news. if RU worked GOOD then the posters would come back here and tell everybody about their results either maintenance or regrowth. I gave up on RU after just 2 months my hair got thinner. but im giving RU a second chance now and this time I will use it for more months. at least a year or so. I use a lot of RU when I apply and I rubb it very hard on the skin. but I never get side effects from RU no matter how much I use.. Before I even dermarolled my scalp then applied RU, by doing this the RU will indeed enter the blood. but I still had no side effects even when using up to 400mg of it. and some people are complaining about side effects from RU...hmmm... I buy my RU from kane or anagen inc both are the same company anyway. when I ordered from anagen inc it says on the package "anagen inc KANE" indeed it does. you guys Think the results from RU are all fake? I read a guy on Youtube saying that he had great results with RU for a year but then it stopped working for him. =/

----------


## UK_

> This is really weird. I would love to see the results. This post started in 2013 and so far, there are no recent photos of results.


 It was an experimental treatment/chemical wouldn't be surprised if most of them are dead.

Hellouser hasn't posted since last year if RU was so great why aren't we hearing the results?  *cough cough* "long term" results....

----------


## ALM

The reason nobody is posting is because it doesn't work.  I've been using this formula precisely according to direction for over a year now and I'm losing more hair today than I was before I started it.  DHT inhibitors are only a small portion of curing MPB.  I honestly believe the true cure is hiding somewhere else in our DNA code because I can guarantee you Propecia, Dutasteride, Minoxidil, and RU aren't the answer.  I've been on Propecia and Minox since they first came out and have been mixing Dutasteride in for the past 8 years.  Have they helped?  Probably so.  The problem is after longterm use they become less and less effective.  The body has an amazing ability to adapt.  That's why I believe unless we alter the DNA code of a cell it will always seek the path in which it was destined to follow.  Science has to push in another direction because DHT inhibitors in my opinion are a dead-end!

----------


## UK_

> The reason nobody is posting is because it doesn't work.  I've been using this formula precisely according to direction for over a year now and I'm losing more hair today than I was before I started it.  DHT inhibitors are only a small portion of curing MPB.  I honestly believe the true cure is hiding somewhere else in our DNA code because I can guarantee you Propecia, Dutasteride, Minoxidil, and RU aren't the answer.  I've been on Propecia and Minox since they first came out and have been mixing Dutasteride in for the past 8 years.  Have they helped?  Probably so.  The problem is after longterm use they become less and less effective.  The body has an amazing ability to adapt.  That's why I believe unless we alter the DNA code of a cell it will always seek the path in which it was destined to follow.  Science has to push in another direction because DHT inhibitors in my opinion are a dead-end!


 Science has to push in directions of curing real illnesses not feeding your self-absorbed narcissistic desire to remain forever young.

Altering DNA code to cure hair loss?  Nearly fell off my chair laughing at that, coming from someone who's happy to spend a year applying an untested chemical to his scalp from God knows where, a number of forum members actually died of heart failure from RU, just wondering why the bandwagon has gone completely silent after 3 years.

----------


## ALM

I find it strange how anyone on this forum would consider someone who's losing their hair and wanting a cure to be considered narcissistic.  If you don't have a problem with being bald then maybe you should consider spending your time elsewhere.  The fact remains that everyone here has the same desire - to keep their hair.  Regarding DNA, tell me why some people get cancer and other's don't?  It's in the DNA genetic makeup of each individual.  Sure, if one chooses to smoke it's highly likely at some point in their lifetime they'll end up with lung cancer.  However, that person has a choice and other's just draw the short stick.  I'm not comparing being bald to having cancer.  At least being bald won't kill you.  But I can attest to the fact that balding at a young age can be emotionally devastating.  You watch your youth fall before your eyes and guess what, you're still young.  It's not a desire to remain forever young, but it is a desire to remain a healthy attractive individual a long as you can.

----------


## Soonbald

> The reason nobody is posting is because it doesn't work.  I've been using this formula precisely according to direction for over a year now and I'm losing more hair today than I was before I started it.  DHT inhibitors are only a small portion of curing MPB.  I honestly believe the true cure is hiding somewhere else in our DNA code because I can guarantee you Propecia, Dutasteride, Minoxidil, and RU aren't the answer.  I've been on Propecia and Minox since they first came out and have been mixing Dutasteride in for the past 8 years.  Have they helped?  Probably so.  The problem is after longterm use they become less and less effective.  The body has an amazing ability to adapt.  That's why I believe unless we alter the DNA code of a cell it will always seek the path in which it was destined to follow.  Science has to push in another direction because DHT inhibitors in my opinion are a dead-end!


 

I want to ask you.. how often did you apply RU? what did you mix it with alcohol/pg? did you mix it yourself? and how many "ML" did you apply on your scalp each time? how many "MG" of also where did you apply it on the scalp and did you rubb it in HARD or tried dermarolling too? tell me in details how you applied it PLEASE...I used RU and dermarolling for 2 months hair was thinner no thickening no reduction in hairloss at all. I used like 5-7ml at ONCE. which is like 200-250-300mg of RU. I had no sides either strangely. strange how FIN and DUT and minox and RU hasnt stopped your hairloss bro.

----------


## Guildenstern

Question has probably been asked many times before, but...

Will applying dry shampoo before using RU work to clear off all the sebum that
hinders proper absorption into the scalp?

I actually don't wash my hair that often and i'm afraid that not doing so might
somehow impair the efficacy of my solution.

Glad to get any tips regarding that matter.  :Smile:

----------


## Soonbald

guys...the thing that worries me the most about RU58841 is the Heavy metals that it contains. sure its small amounts but Heavy metals gets stored in the body the body cant get ridd of it, maybe from some treatment I dunno. but RU58841 isnt totally "PURE" and when you apply RU you get small Heavy metals each time and that adds up into ALOT after a few years. I just used around 300-400mg of RU and rubbed it in very hard on my scalp. I Think I do get slightly lower libido on RU. when I was off RU for a few Days my libido was higher all of a sudden I never thought that RU lowered my libido but it seems that it does. and my penis kinda lose abit sensitivity.

----------


## Patrickfegan

Hey,

I just seen this thread, never heard of RU before.  I live in Ireland, how hard would it be to acquire these ingredients?  Also is RU better than Spiro?  After its discontinuation I need something to combine with Revivogen and Propecia.  What about making your own Spiro?

----------


## Patrickfegan

Would anyone have a guide on creating Spiro?  I know it another treatment, sorry, new here.  Im interested in RU now, its a pity about S5 cream.  The conbination of it, Propecia and Revivogen really worked for me.  I also use Nizaral, Alpecin, Nourkin tabs, and lazer comb.  I loved the Spiro cream as after applied I would take excess cream out with towel and then sprinkle some fibres on,  it attached even better after the spiro and give strength and volume to hair.  #I used the cream and messiness usually associated with S5 cream to my advantage.  Now it been discontinued grrrr

----------


## Swooping

> Would anyone have a guide on creating Spiro?  I know it another treatment, sorry, new here.  Im interested in RU now, its a pity about S5 cream.  The conbination of it, Propecia and Revivogen really worked for me.  I also use Nizaral, Alpecin, Nourkin tabs, and lazer comb.  I loved the Spiro cream as after applied I would take excess cream out with towel and then sprinkle some fibres on,  it attached even better after the spiro and give strength and volume to hair.  #I used the cream and messiness usually associated with S5 cream to my advantage.  Now it been discontinued grrrr


 AFAIK S5 cream is coming back soon with a month or so.

----------


## Soonbald

I hear more and more about heart damage and RU. here is a post on yotuube I just read from a guy im deffo dropping RU..it still makes my hairline itch when I apply it. and dont or barely itches when im off it.



A friend of mine took this back in 2013 purchased from the same website you got yours from, over 6 months after being exposed to the chemical he developed heart problems - shortness of breath and tightness in his chest - he couldn't work properly due to constant dizzyness and shortness of breath - he was diagnosed with a rare form of heart failure and is on around 8 different medications daily now. I'd delete this video, have your entire house chemically cleaned and pray you havent caused yourself long term heart damage. Just to let you know, the company that was developing this chemical as a drug dropped it suddenly during their trials, nobody knows why.

----------


## Patrickfegan

Holy Shit, no hair worth that.  I thankfully haven't purchased it yet.  I was informed about the S5 cream, its great news as Spiro, or at least the S5 cream worked for me.  Thank God as I am not sacrificing my heart for my hair.

----------


## UK_

Isnt Spiro used by transgenders?   That stuff has feminizing properties.

----------


## ALM

I used the same formula originally posted by Hellouser and have applied it once a day approximately 5 days a week for at least a year and a half - everclear 95% grain alcohol mixed with pharmaceutical grade PG and 300mg of RU.  Fortunately for me I really haven't experienced any adverse side effects but I've also been losing mad amounts of hair for the past 6 months.  I may be wrong here but my theory is our bodies are adaptable.  In essence, they build up an immunity over time.  Take alcohol for example.  Say you go 6 months to a year without a beer or glass of wine - you drink one glass and you're feeling the buzz factor.  But if you drink daily it takes more and more to create the same feeling.  I'm no scientist but I am a strategist and logical thinker.  Our bodies are highly sophisticated organisms.  Don't get me wrong, we've got some smart research doctors out there chipping away at our complex DNA code but we all know those brilliant minds are just at the tip of the iceberg.  With that said, I'm still hopeful.  But if you're hoping RU is the answer, it hasn't been for me.

----------


## Patrickfegan

Hi beginning to get that burning sensation on my scalp again since S5 cream run out.  I combine it with Revivogen and Propecia..... not to mention the other complementary treatments. (Expensive fighting hair loss)  I am desperate to get Spiro back.  I tried Follione and even though the makers are trying to create a DHT blocker with natural ingredients (that the FDA cannot regulate) it definitely is not Follione.  For anyone thinking about trying it, don't waste your money, stick to Revivogen or another proven DHT blocker until Spiro comes back.

----------


## UK_

Why dont you stop chemically castrating yourself and live with your hair loss?  Hereditary hair loss is not a health condition, you dont need drugs designed for prostate cancer patients to treat it, it's incredibly dangerous and beyond the realms of stupidity IMO.

As for RU58841 being safe, that's a laugh, cancers usually take years to develop 5+ years etc so to take that risk is also beyond stupid, chronic lymphomas for instance can appear after patients have been completely asymptomatic for over a decade yet always carried the disease until they discover they're stage 4 and on their death beds within 12 - 18 months.

The fact that this is a topical treatment, also puts everyone in your household at risk for exposure, why do you think there are NO topical anti-androgens approved by the FDA?  Too expensive to market?  Not effective enough?  LOL whoever came up with that theory was monkey-stupid.  Imagine a topical finasteride used for 6 months or less within a household of 5 people, talk to a chemical expert he/she will tell you any topical brought into the home is exposed to everyone in some way or another eventually, just the a common cold.

----------


## burtandernie

No one in the household is exposed to RU because you put it on your head. I dont know what logic your using to figure that. Tiny particles of RU on say carpet are not enough to absorb through someones skin and make any real difference in blood levels to do anything. Assuming the person using RU wiped it all over the place.

----------


## UK_

Yes you put it on your head, rub it on your fingers then wash your hands and it's all gone lol.

You have no idea of how dangerous topicals are, they're far more dangerous than pill drugs for this exact reason, you'll touch taps, door handles, bannisters, eat/prepare food and meet/greet people with that chemical still on your hands, just because it's naked to the human eye doesn't mean it's not there, why do you think when someone brings home a cold virus, there's an obvious chance of infecting everyone else in the household?  A cold lasts 3 - 5 days and it can infect an entire household in less than that time, you're applying this chemical for months on end and you think there's no risk of cross-contamination?  Viruses are also safer in this regard as they inactive after 12 or so hours, chemicals can remain 'on surface' and "active" for years, even decades.

You also have no idea regarding the background of this chemical, some chemicals can be carcinogenic at a millionth of a gram, some are even deadly at that level.  

Welcome to the wonderful world of chemicals, I take it, given your lack of knowledge and respect for their powers, you are not a chemist, contact a bio-chemist via email at a university, they will give you the low-down.

----------


## oldschoolplaya

> Hi beginning to get that burning sensation on my scalp again since S5 cream run out.  I combine it with Revivogen and Propecia..... not to mention the other complementary treatments. (Expensive fighting hair loss)  I am desperate to get Spiro back.  I tried Follione and even though the makers are trying to create a DHT blocker with natural ingredients (that the FDA cannot regulate) it definitely is not Follione.  For anyone thinking about trying it, don't waste your money, stick to Revivogen or another proven DHT blocker until Spiro comes back.


 Revivogen proven DHT blocker? What ingredient in Revivogen makes it proven?  That's gotta be the funniest think I've heard in a long while.  Don't let the snake oil salesmen steal your money.  There is no proven topical DHT blocker until Breezula is released, which is undergoing phase 2 trials.

----------


## oldschoolplaya

> As for RU58841 being safe, that's a laugh, cancers usually take years to develop 5+ years etc so to take that risk is also beyond stupid, chronic lymphomas for instance can appear after patients have been completely asymptomatic for over a decade yet always carried the disease until they discover they're stage 4 and on their death beds within 12 - 18 months.
> 
> The fact that this is a topical treatment, also puts everyone in your household at risk for exposure, why do you think there are NO topical anti-androgens approved by the FDA?  Too expensive to market?  Not effective enough?  LOL whoever came up with that theory was monkey-stupid.  Imagine a topical finasteride used for 6 months or less within a household of 5 people, talk to a chemical expert he/she will tell you any topical brought into the home is exposed to everyone in some way or another eventually, just the a common cold.


 The fact that RU is topical makes it safer than any other "internal" DHT blocker like finasteride or dutasteride.  Hmm would rubbing alcohol be safer on your skin or digesting it? DUH!   Lighten up a bit.

----------


## cuprous

> Yes you put it on your head, rub it on your fingers then wash your hands and it's all gone lol.
> 
> You have no idea of how dangerous topicals are, they're far more dangerous than pill drugs for this exact reason, you'll touch taps, door handles, bannisters, eat/prepare food and meet/greet people with that chemical still on your hands, just because it's naked to the human eye doesn't mean it's not there, why do you think when someone brings home a cold virus, there's an obvious chance of infecting everyone else in the household?  A cold lasts 3 - 5 days and it can infect an entire household in less than that time, you're applying this chemical for months on end and you think there's no risk of cross-contamination?  Viruses are also safer in this regard as they inactive after 12 or so hours, chemicals can remain 'on surface' and "active" for years, even decades.
> 
> You also have no idea regarding the background of this chemical, some chemicals can be carcinogenic at a millionth of a gram, some are even deadly at that level.  
> 
> Welcome to the wonderful world of chemicals, I take it, given your lack of knowledge and respect for their powers, you are not a chemist, contact a bio-chemist via email at a university, they will give you the low-down.


 Bud, this isn't polonium we're talking about here.  RU is unstable at room temperature, probably more so on top of a 98 degree head. Your statement "chemicals can remain 'on surface' and "active" for years, even decades." is just ridiculous.  I would agree if you have a pregnant woman, baby or child in the house you should be careful about storage and use of RU but your claims are totally unsubstantiated.

There are hundreds if not thousands of chemicals that end up in your household products without any risk assessment.  

I agree we have limited data on RU thanks to it being shelved but the *ONLY* data point (that I know of) saying its risky was on the topical application to a pregnant rabbit.  Well, ok.  That would be like smearing Avodart on a pregnant woman.  Obviously a bad idea!  

And your comparison to viruses (which you erroneously state are all inactive after 12 hours) is dubious at best.

----------


## UK_

> The fact that RU is topical makes it safer than any other "internal" DHT blocker like finasteride or dutasteride.  Hmm would rubbing alcohol be safer on your skin or digesting it? DUH!   Lighten up a bit.


 You couldn't be more wrong, Finasteride and Dutasteride would NEVER be approved to be sold in a topical solution for exactly the reasons I've explained, the risk for cross-contamination is too high, if you broke up a Finasteride pill and handled the dust you'd have a near similar effect on DHT levels as you would if you swallowed the pill.

Rubbing alcohol is essentially harmless, you'd need to rub a large quantity to experience any toxic effect - nobody is going to bathe in hand gel - all of the chemicals in your household are non-toxic, or else they wouldn't make it to market - however you've decided to purchase a *research chemical* as a topical which hasnt been approved by the FDA or marketed by a pharmaceutical company.  Forgive me if you feel I'm being paranoid, however, RU58841 shares a similar chemical structure to drugs [approved] for prostate cancer patients, the list of side effects for those drugs is horrendous, including risk of long term heart failure (circa <2%) just because the supplier of your chemical has refused to research it on guinea pigs first and tell you about the side effects doesn't mean there arent any, every drug on this planet has a side effect.  The long term side effects are the ones to worry about; 10 - 15 years down the road.

----------


## UK_

> Bud, this isn't polonium we're talking about here.  RU is unstable at room temperature, probably more so on top of a 98 degree head. Your statement "chemicals can remain 'on surface' and "active" for years, even decades." is just ridiculous.  I would agree if you have a pregnant woman, baby or child in the house you should be careful about storage and use of RU but your claims are totally unsubstantiated.
> 
> There are hundreds if not thousands of chemicals that end up in your household products without any risk assessment.  
> 
> I agree we have limited data on RU thanks to it being shelved but the *ONLY* data point (that I know of) saying its risky was on the topical application to a pregnant rabbit.  Well, ok.  That would be like smearing Avodart on a pregnant woman.  Obviously a bad idea!  
> 
> And your comparison to viruses (which you erroneously state are all inactive after 12 hours) is dubious at best.


 Not all viruses, however it's a given that the majority of viruses have a shorter on surface half life than chemicals - half lives for chemicals are determined in a lab setting, nobody knows what the half life for RU58841 is, could be a few weeks, could be a few years.  We dont know what the half life in the human body is either, we don't know if RU58841 distrupts B-Lymphocytes causing a slow growing lymphatic cancer which rears its head after a decade - it's well known that endocrine distruptors are associated with cancers of the lymphatic system:




> _Endocrine disruptors are chemicals that, at certain doses, can interfere with endocrine (or hormone) systems. These disruptions can cause cancerous tumors, birth defects, and other developmental disorders.[1] Any system in the body controlled by hormones can be derailed by hormone disruptors. Specifically, endocrine disruptors may be associated with the development of learning disabilities, severe attention deficit disorder, cognitive and brain development problems; deformations of the body (including limbs); breast cancer, prostate cancer, thyroid and other cancers; sexual development problems such as feminizing of males or masculinizing effects on females, etc.
> 
> Staff (2013-06-05). "Endocrine Disruptors". NIEHS_

----------


## Swooping

> You couldn't be more wrong, Finasteride and Dutasteride would NEVER be approved to be sold in a topical solution for exactly the reasons I've explained, the risk for cross-contamination is too high, if you broke up a Finasteride pill and handled the dust you'd have a near similar effect on DHT levels as you would if you swallowed the pill.


 Damn I really need to have the stuff you are smoking lol...

----------


## bluewater

There is a "Compounding Pharmacy" close to me. They make prescriptions , rather than talking pre-made pills from a manufacturer and reselling them. My Vet prescribes a solution for a cat that needs to be made up and these places do that.  Is this a formula they can make and legally sell to me? I am a bit intimidate by the whole process spelled out here. Thank you.

----------


## Notgivingup2

> There is a "Compounding Pharmacy" close to me. They make prescriptions , rather than talking pre-made pills from a manufacturer and reselling them. My Vet prescribes a solution for a cat that needs to be made up and these places do that.  Is this a formula they can make and legally sell to me? I am a bit intimidate by the whole process spelled out here. Thank you.


 If you purchase the RU in powder form then yes, they could probably make it for you. I'm not sure they would though as it's probably illegal for them to do so for you.

----------


## doke

Advice regards putting ru58841 in kirkland or any 5% minoxidil is to maybe mix if putting into 60mls of minox 3 grams of ru in a small amount of pure alchohol and shaking the bottle until the ru is clear then add to your minox.
I say this as i wasted a whole bottle of 60mls of minox and ru as you have to leave in  fridge i had ice particals in my mix and also due to water in minox the ru never mixed.
I Have made batchs in pure 50mls alchohol which are ok but can dry out the scalp thats why kb solution is better.
My next mix will be in either 30mls minox or 60mls but as said mix ru first.

----------


## bluewater

Doke: How is this stuff working for you? Seriously. I have heard everything . It works it doesn't, it's dangerous.. I can't determine if its worth getting involved in. Minox has not worked and I am now trying that dema roller . The question is. Does it grow hair for you in the places you need it to be?

----------


## doke

> Doke: How is this stuff working for you? Seriously. I have heard everything . It works it doesn't, it's dangerous.. I can't determine if its worth getting involved in. Minox has not worked and I am now trying that dema roller . The question is. Does it grow hair for you in the places you need it to be?


 Hi Bluewater im not sure what hair you have still but you could try minoxidil + antiandrogen medroxyprogestorone which in my early days which was  when I was in my middle 30s using that 5% minoxidil did really thicken my hair up I did use about 1.5ml twice a day.
You can see my post of where to buy this med on progesterone thread, as to ru being dangerous I do not think so but I cannot say its safe due to it being experimental although I have used it and other hairloss forum members have but its no cure.
As I have tried many naturals and drugs for hairloss including oral dutasteride you can always ask on this forum before you waste your money on scams that are out there.

----------


## bluewater

I have tried minox. Used it for years. Didn't do anything. Finally gave up. I also tried Fin. That stopped my progression. But the skin doctor that wrote me the prescription said to take like .05mg a day. Way to much. Then that whole scare about the physical repercussions came out.I couldn't tell if the sexual sides were real or imagined. And if they were real, were they med related or age related as I was in my late 50's already when I took it. It did affect my temperament though. I became easily agitated. My wife was calling it "snapping". I had no patience for anything so  I stopped that as well. Now my hair is receding and thinning and I am looking for something else.   Hearing mixed things about RU. I can't tell if it is snake oil or not.

----------


## doke

Hi Blue did you use minox on its own? if so which brand? and did you use with an antiandrogen? if not the that's the problem.
I do not really like using drugs but at this time I do feel that minoxidil with an added antiandrogen is the best treatment I myself did not get any results from proscar and dutasteride although I did not use topical minoxidil with them I would rather use topicals then oral anyway.
I did try lipogaine minoxidil but I did find any minoxidil with az acid in sticky so im now on minoxidil 5% with medroxyprogestorone and also added a natural topical progesterone as well.

----------


## bluewater

I used Kirkland Minox. It was affordable and I wasn't aware that there might be any difference between it and any other brand. The foam caused irritation so I stuck with the liquid. Did not use it with a antiandrogen. I had not heard of it or that it was a recommendation. Is medroxyprogestorone a pill or cream? I looked that up and it sounds pretty scary. Many possible and negative side effects for men. Suggested it should be used under the care of a doctor. Did you do that? I read they give it to sex offenders to kill sex drive. Can be hard on the liver as well. A great DHT blocker though. Tell me about your experience with it. I am still wondering if RU should be something to consider. For me it falls into the category of UFO's . Some swear they exists some don't. Most people don't know.

----------


## doke

Bluewater minox mixed with medroxyprogestorone has been on sale in many hairloss clinics in uk since the 1990s and it can help in mpb.

----------


## doke

Hi Swooping i have just found a web site that talks about ru58841 and they mention the bald truth and your name crops up as a scammer for kane anagenic shop as you have a connection to this company or they offered you and other people on this forum  glowing reports of ru from this company in exchange for feebies.
Now they also say a usa company is better and more trustworthy to buy your ru from and that the premix solutions by the time you receive  them have little ru in them.
Now they also say that you get your ru from a iso reg company which kane shop is not i thought you should have a right of reply to this web site which you may already know about.

----------


## bluewater

I haven't heard of it. Is there a brand name I need to look for? Or ask for? How do I go about finding this. I am in the USA.

Thanks

----------


## doke

Blue there is the wimpole clinic London also the Norton clinic and Dr Alan robinson chemist which I put his uk tel number on the thread progesterone.
I think that some may post to usa but you will have to find out.

----------


## bluewater

I found Spironolactone 2%  for sale. How might this work?

----------


## funkville

> Blue there is the wimpole clinic London also the Norton clinic and Dr Alan robinson chemist which I put his uk tel number on the thread progesterone.
> I think that some may post to usa but you will have to find out.


 
Hey doke I rang the number but it was just ringing out. I went online and sourced the upper beeding pharmacy where he works. 01903 813218. I will try again tomorrow morning. How much does he charge per bottle?

----------


## doke

They maybe closed for Christmas I know he will supply 120mls which he does 4% and 5% minoxidil with progesterone I think its better for you to buy 6 months supply due to postage.
The wimpole clinic in London sells 120mls for £55 last time I bought 120mls from Dr Robinson it was £47 but cheaper as said if you buy six months not sure what postage is to you.

----------


## Cantona

> I haven't heard of it. Is there a brand name I need to look for? Or ask for? How do I go about finding this. I am in the USA.
> 
> Thanks


 I got last month my RU58841 from purityprod.com and so far so good... Sebum is virtually gone as did my original result on RU58841 self made solution. The price is also crazy less expensive than what it was previously on the market, its a good thing for us and wish it will it will continue to move down  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## Paindemonium

> Why dont you stop chemically castrating yourself and live with your hair loss?  Hereditary hair loss is not a health condition, you dont need drugs designed for prostate cancer patients to treat it, it's incredibly dangerous and beyond the realms of stupidity IMO.
> 
> As for RU58841 being safe, that's a laugh, cancers usually take years to develop 5+ years etc so to take that risk is also beyond stupid, chronic lymphomas for instance can appear after patients have been completely asymptomatic for over a decade yet always carried the disease until they discover they're stage 4 and on their death beds within 12 - 18 months.
> 
> The fact that this is a topical treatment, also puts everyone in your household at risk for exposure, why do you think there are NO topical anti-androgens approved by the FDA?  Too expensive to market?  Not effective enough?  LOL whoever came up with that theory was monkey-stupid.  Imagine a topical finasteride used for 6 months or less within a household of 5 people, talk to a chemical expert he/she will tell you any topical brought into the home is exposed to everyone in some way or another eventually, just the a common cold.


 Hairloss is actually linked to a pletora of disseases. It is an indicator of shitty genes.

I've tried it all except RU and im still balding, my scalp itches. There's no hope. Time to look for a wig I guess.

----------


## Patrickfegan

Hi I was just wondering about where is the best place to buy ru.   I bought ru powder from Kane and the Kb solution. I have used it for a short while but I'm still feeling like my hair is being attacked by dht.   I also apply revivogen an hour later.   I have heard ru is strongest topical.  Suppose I'm asking how long would it take to work and is ru from Kane known for being reliable.  Just so I will know that if it doesn't work it isn't down to dodgey purity .  Sorry if this has been covered on the thread before I don't have time to go through them all and wondering whether buy more .

----------


## zurich

I used RU from Kane for 3months. Caused more thinning and hair was like straw. Gave up on it. I'd like a reputable company to do so tests on it. Havent seen any independent proof it works. 

I started balding at about 25 and maintained for 15 years with minoxidil and propecia. Side effects from propecia were subtle but gradually just lost interest in sex and was losing muscle tone.  Stopping propecia started the thinning again. Body in great shape though. Now Using Spectral DNC-s and Spectral DNC-Astressin, Revita, Minoxidil and Viviscal.

----------


## PaulAnds

I am using RU for 2 months now, combined with Minox (which i use since 2 years). Yesterday i took a closer look at the mirror and saw some thin (new?) hair. Hope it will become thick and more. Buyed the RU from AndroChem (cheapest so far?). After next month i will tell you if i continue with RU or quit.

----------


## PaulAnds

*Update*
The RU seems to work fine for me (RU+Alc+PG). I started dermarolling as well. So at the moment I use RU and Minox topical (Minox just every 3rd day as a booster) and derma roller 1 session/week.
Feels good so far, no sideeffects noticed.

----------


## PaulAnds

*Update*
The RU seems to work fine for me (RU+Alc+PG). I started dermarolling as well. So at the moment I use RU and Minox topical (Minox just every 3rd day as a booster) and derma roller 1 session/week.
Feels good so far, no sideeffects noticed.

----------


## zurich

> *Update*
> The RU seems to work fine for me (RU+Alc+PG). I started dermarolling as well. So at the moment I use RU and Minox topical (Minox just every 3rd day as a booster) and derma roller 1 session/week.
> Feels good so far, no sideeffects noticed.


 I posted a few months ago that readymade RU from Kane wasn't working for me. I since got the powder and mix it with Stemoxidine 50mg and getting some thin new hairs along the hair line. Nothing has done that for me before - not minox, DNC-Spectral, propecia etc.

I dermaroll 0.3mm before use and apply once a day at night.

----------


## markusbdc

Does anyone know what ever became of ol' Hellouser?  He was one hell of a prolific blogger in his day   I wonder if he still has hair or just gave it all up...??

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## robodoc

> I posted a few months ago that readymade RU from Kane wasn't working for me. I since got the powder and mix it with Stemoxidine 50mg and getting some thin new hairs along the hair line. Nothing has done that for me before - not minox, DNC-Spectral, propecia etc.
> 
> I dermaroll 0.3mm before use and apply once a day at night.


 What is Stemoxidine??  How are the "new hairs"?

----------


## doke

> *Things You'll Need:*
> 
> 1) Get 10 grams of RU from Kane.
> 
> 2) At the same time order off of eBay or Amazon a *0.001* gram digital scale. You NEED this to correctly measure 30-100mg of RU for each application. These typically cost between $20-30 US, heres the one I use: http://i50.tinypic.com/23j28wn.jpg
> 
> 3) Buy yourself the following items at the drug store;
> -1ml dropper ($2-3.00 max)
> -100ml or more of propylene glycol (aka PG) (I paid $3.10 for 200ml)
> ...


 Hi Hell a  question about ru instead of prop glychol why not try mix ru in alcohol and a small amount of dmso which is we a penetration enhancer and also can reduce inflammation for the ru to get to the follicle.
Now as said i wonder if a 50/50 of alcohol to dmso would be ok or a smaller amount?

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## zurich

Has Hellrouser posted in the last few years? Be interesting to get an update. I assume no news is not a good sign.

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## dustovshio

> Hi Hell a  question about ru instead of prop glychol why not try mix ru in alcohol and a small amount of dmso which is we a penetration enhancer and also can reduce inflammation for the ru to get to the follicle.
> Now as said i wonder if a 50/50 of alcohol to dmso would be ok or a smaller amount?


 No that is too high concentration of dmso. I'd do as close to 100% isopropyl or ethanol then follow up with some kind of lotion to moisturize it.

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## bluewater

After getting the glycol and ever clear, I decided to go the minoxidil route. It never worked for me so when I stopped using it, I had 4 bottles of it left over. When I went to the liquor store to get the ever clear a big bottle was like $25 and they were all out. The guy said that it was no longer going to be available. Thie is the EVERCLEAR brand 151 proof. I bought a pint for $10. So be aware this product might no longer be available. I have 2 questions as I begin use of this .1. I have read conflicting information about RU. Some info says it grows new hair, while others say its like Fin and just retains it. Which is it? 2. How often. Some say once a day, some say twice. I just started yesterday so we will see what happens.

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## markusbdc

> Has Hellrouser posted in the last few years? Be interesting to get an update. I assume no news is not a good sign.


 Yeah I always wonder what became of this guy....probably became a bald headed accountant somewhere...

----------


## markusbdc

I would think that DMSO would tend to drive the compound deep enough as to become systemic which isn't what you really want to happen..

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## icloroxi

> Has Hellrouser posted in the last few years? Be interesting to get an update. I assume no news is not a good sign.


 He has a youtube channel and is still using RU with a better hairline than when he started.

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## markusbdc

> Has Hellrouser posted in the last few years? Be interesting to get an update. I assume no news is not a good sign.


 I would guess that he is probably running around looking like the cueball as he was destined to be....

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## markusbdc

Is the youtube channel something recent or is it all just his old stuff...?

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## icloroxi

> Is the youtube channel something recent or is it all just his old stuff...?


 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utaUvUFvWb8 idk if im allowed to post links like this but this is him and it is recent. I'm guessing he stopped using this site because he's already spread as much info as is needed or isn't looking for another cure.

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## markusbdc

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utaUvUFvWb8 idk if im allowed to post links like this but this is him and it is recent. I'm guessing he stopped using this site because he's already spread as much info as is needed or isn't looking for another cure.


 Wait, that is not Hellouser- thats Derek from "More Plates More Dates" who has probably taken some of Hellouser's old stuff and made up his own formulation....

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## icloroxi

> Wait, that is not Hellouser- thats Derek from "More Plates More Dates" who has probably taken some of Hellouser's old stuff and made up his own formulation....


 Yeah that is weird, my bad. Somewhere along the way I was given the idea that it's the same dude I guess maybe he's done what you said then :/ a lot of these guys seem like they're just being paid to advertise this stuff. I started using it last week so I'm planning to make a thread myself in 4-6 months (if it works at all for me) with photos and stuff because it was so hard finding actual info from trustworthy types of people so I figured I'll just do it myself and not mention any websites I used to purchase it.

----------


## markusbdc

> Yeah that is weird, my bad. Somewhere along the way I was given the idea that it's the same dude I guess maybe he's done what you said then :/ a lot of these guys seem like they're just being paid to advertise this stuff. I started using it last week so I'm planning to make a thread myself in 4-6 months (if it works at all for me) with photos and stuff because it was so hard finding actual info from trustworthy types of people so I figured I'll just do it myself and not mention any websites I used to purchase it.


 Yeah I did a fair amount of research and am not a paid shill or anything. I decided to just order the powder from anagen ( I was afraid of the pre-mixed solution because they say it degrades rather fast and Hellouser always said to make small batches) and an RWS gram scale from Amazon. I mix it up in 30 ml or so of everclear 151 proof using about 1500 grams RU and dump it in half a jug of minoxidil. Not sure how great its working but at least there is no apparent shedding for now and I seem to be holding the status quo hairwise...but sadly I am sure it eventually is going to go as all you can do is slow down the inevitable...

----------


## icloroxi

> Yeah I did a fair amount of research and am not a paid shill or anything. I decided to just order the powder from anagen ( I was afraid of the pre-mixed solution because they say it degrades rather fast and Hellouser always said to make small batches) and an RWS gram scale from Amazon. I mix it up in 30 ml or so of everclear 151 proof using about 1500 grams RU and dump it in half a jug of minoxidil. Not sure how great its working but at least there is no apparent shedding for now and I seem to be holding the status quo hairwise...but sadly I am sure it eventually is going to go as all you can do is slow down the inevitable...


 Yeah exactly right mate, i'm doing it pretty much the same but i'm using PG instead of minox with the RU and I use minox foam separately 30 mins after my RU has dried. Also I have 2 different batches from different websites just to compare them against eachother. So far my shedding has probably halved which is a good sign (and with the batch I didn't expect much from), hopefully it'll be down to 2-5 hairs again soon since minox only saved me for 12 months before the shedding slowly increased again lol. 

Also aslong as you can hold onto your hair for like 1-3 years (yeah a long time =/ ) Replicel is looking pretty promising right now and finish their phase 2 trials in feb and will release the results for the actual "cure"..their words. They're also working on skin rejuvenation , tendon rejuvenation and something else i believe all using cells from your own body. Take a look for yourself if you haven't already. I think they're releasing it in japan then europe and then onto america/Aus once and IF it's FDA approved and say they should have it available worldwide by 2020 and thats for the last of countries to receive it, so ours could be 2018 or 19 who knows.. https://replicel.com/product-pipelin...-regeneration/

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## Plan C

Hi all,

Apologies for resurrecting this thread. I have been using 85mg RU58841 in 0.5ml PG & 1.25ml ethanol every other day for several years, and it dawned on me that whilst the mg amount of RU is quite high, the concentration % is only around 4.9%.

If I begin to use 1ml of solution, this will rise to 8.5%. Will it therefore be more effective? Or is it the mg amount of RU that matters?

Also, is there any consensus on whether minoxidil is a suitable carrier for RU? I've seen concerns raised over the water content. Does anyone disolve RU in a 10% or 15% minoxidil solution?

----------


## SongBird

> Hi all,
> 
> Apologies for resurrecting this thread. I have been using 85mg RU58841 in 0.5ml PG & 1.25ml ethanol every other day for several years, and it dawned on me that whilst the mg amount of RU is quite high, the concentration % is only around 4.9%.
> 
> If I begin to use 1ml of solution, this will rise to 8.5%. Will it therefore be more effective? Or is it the mg amount of RU that matters?
> 
> Also, is there any consensus on whether minoxidil is a suitable carrier for RU? I've seen concerns raised over the water content. Does anyone disolve RU in a 10% or 15% minoxidil solution?


 What matters is not the concentration, but the amount of RU powder that you use. Think about it.

1ml solution, 50mg RU = 5% concentration.
3ml solution, 50mg RU = 1.6% concentration.

The difference is just that you have more solution to spread across your scalp with 3ml. What matters is that all 3ml is put on your scalp, meaning 50mg of RU is still going to be present in your scalp, it just was spread among 3ml, instead of 1ml, but its still 50mg that is put on your scalp.

----------


## bluewater

How effective has RU been for you guys? I have been using it in a Minox solution for almost a year September. I have receding and temple loss and I haven't gotten any noticeable regrowth. I have a few random hairs on the totally bald areas. I am also using it on the places i have hair to hopefully decrease loss and gain some additional growth in the productive area. I have been using Minox as the base simply because it is easier and less expensive. Was not aware  that it may not be the right thing to do. What do you advise?

----------


## Aminar

Thank you it was really helpful.

----------


## Plan C

Anyone know where in the UK it is possible to buy suitable ethanol? The place I was getting it from in Germany is no longer exporting to the UK.

----------


## Ljames

> Anyone know where in the UK it is possible to buy suitable ethanol? The place I was getting it from in Germany is no longer exporting to the UK.


 I'm from the UK and have found somewhere, it's call receptor chem. From what I can see they seem pretty legit, I've not ordered from there yet but am planning to tonight as it's payday and am taking the RU plunge.

I'm looking at getting some pre mixed RU. If anyone could share an opinion it would be much appreciated as I'm not to experienced with it

"M.Wt: 369.34
Formula: C17H18F3N3O3
4-[3-(4-hydroxybutyl)-4,4-dimethyl-2,5-dioxoimidazolidin-1-yl]-2-(trifluoromethyl)benzonitrile
Solubility: Polyglycols, Aqua, Ethanol
Purity: >99%"

----------


## mustang2

I've just bought some from Anagen (KB solution)

I am on topical dutasteride with great success (zero hair loss for 4 months, no sides) after having bad sides with both oral and topical finasteride. It reduced my shedding to 3 hairs a day from 50 and hair is much thicker after 4 months. Best part is I only apply it once a week

I will be going on TRT next month and I'm worried about test causing hair loss so I will test RU before doing so and after going on Test

----------


## HairGuru

> I've just bought some from Anagen (KB solution)
> 
> I am on topical dutasteride with great success (zero hair loss for 4 months, no sides) after having bad sides with both oral and topical finasteride. It reduced my shedding to 3 hairs a day from 50 and hair is much thicker after 4 months. Best part is I only apply it once a week
> 
> I will be going on TRT next month and I'm worried about test causing hair loss so I will test RU before doing so and after going on Test


 Where do you buy topical Dutasteride?

----------


## robodoc

> *Update*
> The RU seems to work fine for me (RU+Alc+PG). I started dermarolling as well. So at the moment I use RU and Minox topical (Minox just every 3rd day as a booster) and derma roller 1 session/week.
> Feels good so far, no sideeffects noticed.


 This comment was from 2017....how is it working today??  It is not working you will say I am sure.  None of this crap works except for topical Fin, Minox. and some caffeine.  Right?

----------


## robodoc

> How effective has RU been for you guys? I have been using it in a Minox solution for almost a year September. I have receding and temple loss and I haven't gotten any noticeable regrowth. I have a few random hairs on the totally bald areas. I am also using it on the places i have hair to hopefully decrease loss and gain some additional growth in the productive area. I have been using Minox as the base simply because it is easier and less expensive. Was not aware  that it may not be the right thing to do. What do you advise?


 Exactly....sorry it does not work, save your dough and health.

----------


## robodoc

> If you purchase the RU in powder form then yes, they could probably make it for you. I'm not sure they would though as it's probably illegal for them to do so for you.


 They will not compound anything using one's own ingredients.  They will not compound anything not FDA approved or they would be in deep sh*t.

----------


## dthcore

> I've just bought some from Anagen (KB solution)
> 
> I am on topical dutasteride with great success (zero hair loss for 4 months, no sides) after having bad sides with both oral and topical finasteride. It reduced my shedding to 3 hairs a day from 50 and hair is much thicker after 4 months. Best part is I only apply it once a week
> 
> I will be going on TRT next month and I'm worried about test causing hair loss so I will test RU before doing so and after going on Test


 
Hows trt treating your hair bro?

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## dthcore

> Exactly....sorry it does not work, save your dough and health.


 Wait what part of that doesnt work?

----------


## mustang2

> Hows trt treating your hair bro?


 First 4 weeks no hair loss
Then 3-4 weeks of maybe 30-40 stands a day. Topical dutasteride did not fully protect me.
Added 0.5mg finasteride 3 days a week and still using topical dutasteride once a week. Hair loss is down to 10 strands a day which is OK with me... 

Sides of finasteride are much milder as I have test now. 175mg a week 

I will be adding mesotherapy with dutasteride once a week or once every 2 weeks and continue to check.

RU is my last weapon and resource with oral dutasteride. 

I dont want to nuke my DHT. I like to have it below 250 but still have some. 

Without TRT I had zero hair loss AND
Zero sides with topical dutasteride.

----------


## dthcore

> First 4 weeks no hair loss
> Then 3-4 weeks of maybe 30-40 stands a day. Topical dutasteride did not fully protect me.
> Added 0.5mg finasteride 3 days a week and still using topical dutasteride once a week. Hair loss is down to 10 strands a day which is OK with me... 
> 
> Sides of finasteride are much milder as I have test now. 175mg a week 
> 
> I will be adding mesotherapy with dutasteride once a week or once every 2 weeks and continue to check.
> 
> RU is my last weapon and resource with oral dutasteride. 
> ...


 

Damn man not bad! Im on dutasteride .5 every day and RU58841 everyday with minox! And I still lose Atleast 25 hairs a day! Not on trt too!!! I wish! But not so sure what would happen to my hair. Lol

----------


## HairGuru

Thanks for this thread amazing.

----------


## stefkampen

> First 4 weeks no hair loss
> Then 3-4 weeks of maybe 30-40 stands a day. Topical dutasteride did not fully protect me.
> Added 0.5mg finasteride 3 days a week and still using topical dutasteride once a week. Hair loss is down to 10 strands a day which is OK with me... 
> 
> Sides of finasteride are much milder as I have test now. 175mg a week 
> 
> I will be adding mesotherapy with dutasteride once a week or once every 2 weeks and continue to check.
> 
> RU is my last weapon and resource with oral dutasteride. 
> ...


 
Hey,

I am currently also on TRT. Currently on 50 mg test-e 3 times a week subq. Do you use HCG with your TRT? ? When i don't use HCG, I will feel like i have lowish testosterone levels, whuilst i am using 150 mg, which should put you at the top range right? At 150 mg i have minor hair loss, but as soon as i throw in HCG, i do feel great, gains wise and mentally/cognitive wise, but it's so ****ing harsh on the hair line... It evaporates my hair line lol.  I tried topical finasteride, which worked great in stopping my hair loss, but i do get brain fog from it, so i had to quit, since i couldn't get any tasks done..

I also didn't have any hair loss prior hormone use. I used to cycle in the past, but the last 3 years i am only on TRT, still finding the sweet spot, where my gains are great, my mental clarity is on spot and my hair loss is minimal/non existent.

Why do you see RU58841 as a 'last resort'? When you use exogenous androgens, i don't see the problem right? I recently ordered RU58841 from a European vendor (actifolic.com), so i am going to try that out. Hope to have no side effects from RU58841, otherwise i have the option to go the CB0301 route, but i have read it isn't as potent as RU58841, right?

----------


## mustang2

> Hey,
> 
> I am currently also on TRT. Currently on 50 mg test-e 3 times a week subq. Do you use HCG with your TRT? ? When i don't use HCG, I will feel like i have lowish testosterone levels, whuilst i am using 150 mg, which should put you at the top range right? At 150 mg i have minor hair loss, but as soon as i throw in HCG, i do feel great, gains wise and mentally/cognitive wise, but it's so ****ing harsh on the hair line... It evaporates my hair line lol.  I tried topical finasteride, which worked great in stopping my hair loss, but i do get brain fog from it, so i had to quit, since i couldn't get any tasks done..
> 
> I also didn't have any hair loss prior hormone use. I used to cycle in the past, but the last 3 years i am only on TRT, still finding the sweet spot, where my gains are great, my mental clarity is on spot and my hair loss is minimal/non existent.
> 
> Why do you see RU58841 as a 'last resort'? When you use exogenous androgens, i don't see the problem right? I recently ordered RU58841 from a European vendor (actifolic.com), so i am going to try that out. Hope to have no side effects from RU58841, otherwise i have the option to go the CB0301 route, but i have read it isn't as potent as RU58841, right?


 If I go back on TRT I will use HCG, 250iU 3 times a week and would be on a 120mg test dose twice a week.

Topical Dutasteride won't give you sides like topical finasteride. I use it once a week, 2ml at 0.1%. 

RU is my last resource because it will prevent hair loss from testosterone. Even if you have zero DHT levels (which you don't want) test will also miniaturization. CB is good if you use it at 8% which is very expensive. RU58841 would be the only option.

Not sure why HCG gives you problems

----------


## stefkampen

How does topical dutasteride not give side effects? Because of the molucular weight? 

Honestly, my hair is pretty resistant to any androgen, except the DHT androgens, so dht, winstrol, masteron etc. So i do not worry about testosterone miniaturiazation.

Is the topical dutasteride working great for you?

----------


## jakesmith101

https://customhobbydecals.com/

----------


## throwaway5700

> I hear more and more about heart damage and RU. here is a post on yotuube I just read from a guy im deffo dropping RU..it still makes my hairline itch when I apply it. and dont or barely itches when im off it.
> 
> 
> 
> A friend of mine took this back in 2013 purchased from the same website you got yours from, over 6 months after being exposed to the chemical he developed heart problems - shortness of breath and tightness in his chest - he couldn't work properly due to constant dizzyness and shortness of breath - he was diagnosed with a rare form of heart failure and is on around 8 different medications daily now. I'd delete this video, have your entire house chemically cleaned and pray you havent caused yourself long term heart damage. Just to let you know, the company that was developing this chemical as a drug dropped it suddenly during their trials, nobody knows why.


 Hey mate,

I don't know if you are still active but is this story true?

If so, why are you still using it yourself at such high dosages?

How is your friend? Is he still with us?

This is honestly so tragic and appears to be a second anecdotal case of "heart failure" caused by this horrible drug.

----------


## Lee12345

Hi Throwaway5700 how are you now, a year later? Any or much improvement? Thanks

----------


## mann7789

anyone knows if you can travel with RU mixed in minoxidil bottle? Someone asked me who wants to travel to other country from US. He is researching on it and planning to mix it in minox bottle and take in carry on or checked in baggage. Thanks in advance.

----------

