# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  Good News -- I just called Aderans Research Institute in Atlanta

## Westonci

A user by the name of Roger_that on the forum Hairsite contacted Aderans and here is the reponse.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just called them this morning, and spoke with someone in their Regulatory Affairs department. I asked him a number of questions and he was kind enough to answer.

I asked him if Aderans Research Institute (ARI) was being liquidated, and he said *"no, we are definitely not being liquidated."* He said ARI continues to exist and their work continues.

He said enrollment for the clinical trails has closed, and now the results and data are being evaluated. He could not give me any numbers. He said *"the results are encouraging"*, but, "that's all I can say".

He said the acquisition of Hair Club for Men and Women was a totally separate business decision by the parent company, Aderans USA (and Aderans of Japan), and, to his knowledge, it has nothing to do with Aderans Research Institute or Ji Gami. He said ARI doesn't get involved in those decisions.

He said yes, they are selling off some of their lab equipment (not all of it), but specifically said it *does not mean the company (Aderans Research Institute) is closing or that Ji Gami has failed.*

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## hellouser

10+ years of research with results only to shut down? Theyre probably just selling off to upgrade equipment or put more cash into covering the costs of actually launching the product.

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## k3nk3n

If this is true, it's definitely great news! At least now we know we have another option back in the game!

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## csoul

July 09, 2013 07:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time  
BioSurplus To Host Liquidation Auction For Aderans Research Institute 


Lab Equipment Located In Marietta GA, Online Auction To Take Place July 1118, 2013 


http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...arch-Institute

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## Boldy

hehe, the research has been done, the composition that will be injected is known.

trials have been preformed. dermal/ epidermal composition, in the right frequency is the cure. 

its a matter of time.

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## hellouser

> hehe, the research has been done, the composition that will be injected is known.
> 
> trials have been preformed. dermal/ epidermal composition, in the right frequency is the cure. 
> 
> its a matter of time.


 When do you think they'll have it ready for the public as a commercial product? I was hopeful they'd stick to their 2014 timeline but it doesn't look like its going to happen. Perhaps 2015?

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

Boldy you sound smart. 

please tell us is it all these happenings and facts enough for as getting bald at 24 to start and relax thinking of the cure to come soon?

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## oppenheimer82

> Boldy you sound smart. 
> 
> please tell us is it all these happenings and facts enough for as getting bald at 24 to start and relax thinking of the cure to come soon?


 Boldy is THE man.  :Wink:

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## Dazza

> Boldy you sound smart.


 Jeopardy smart

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## bibz

see??? Now pleaaaaase just stop speculate like bitches!

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## BoSox

Well, put that in your juice box and suck it. Aderans is back.. but then again, they were always there.

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## Thinning87

they still have to do phase 3 people

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## hellouser

> they still have to do phase 3 people


 Phase II was supposed to end in March/April. They may have already started Phase III, unless theres a waiting period between phases.

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## Thinning87

If they have been able to do so that'd be amazing, but I highly doubt it.

Their equipment sell off/change is probably a sign that they are preparing for it

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## hellouser

> If they have been able to do so that'd be amazing, but I highly doubt it.
> 
> Their equipment sell off/change is probably a sign that they are preparing for it


 I'd be willing to bet they already bought new equipment and just need to get rid of the old stuff, thus no downtime without any equipment at all (or less). Its like being a photographer about to upgrade: do you sell your current gear and have nothing to work with, or buy new gear, continue shooting and THEN sell?

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## sausage

So any idea when we can expect the outcome of these results to be published?

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## Boldy

> Boldy you sound smart. 
> 
> please tell us is it all these happenings and facts enough for as getting bald at 24 to start and relax thinking of the cure to come soon?


 I don't dare to tell when they feel its oke to release it, But i hope for everyone soon. My suspection is that it will be after  2016- 2017, after the phase 3 results...

If you can't wait, for aderans, wait some months until some others on this forum like nigams, release their results with a dermal/epithelial composition.(similar approach).

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## john2399

Thanks to all the a holes who brought the speculation of aderans closing down. Thanks for the positive news to the poster who posted this.

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## hellouser

> Thanks to all the a holes who brought the speculation of aderans closing down. Thanks for the positive news to the poster who posted this.


 Yup, as soon as I heard the panic my hair started to fall out....  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## joely

What will a phase 3 trial include and what has been achieved so far in the first two phases! I'm guessing that we are jumping the gun a fraction calling this the cure????

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## hellouser

> What will a phase 3 trial include and what has been achieved so far in the first two phases! I'm guessing that we are jumping the gun a fraction calling this the cure????


 Phase I - Safety
Phase II - Efficacy
Phase III - Perfection of Efficacy on Large Scale

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## joely

So its safe to say this is going to work on some scale?

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## clandestine

This forum tends to be rather bipolar; keep that in mind.

Aderans was dead just last week.

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## hellouser

> So its safe to say this is going to work on some scale?


 It already has.

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## Westonci

> This forum tends to be rather bipolar; keep that in mind.
> 
> Aderans was dead just last week.


 I gotta give a shout out to Spencer and JoefromStatenIsland for calling it like it is.

Theres a lot of unecessary speculation on this forum, and we should take everything with a grain of salt.

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## UK_

I know, everyone thought it was doomsday - but I have to say, can you blame them?  Lol.

I mean we really want a better treatment, I dont blame anyone for reacting the way they did, we're only human.

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## sausage

could this work on a NW6 baldy?

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

lots of qs!!!!

when are they releasing ther phase update and dets?

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## hellouser

> could this work on a NW6 baldy?


 It should, but may not restore your hair completely, and probably wont.... here's an OLD before/after photo:

[IMG]http://www.*************/hair-loss/img/uploaded/2879_image1232.jpg[/IMG]

Some people are assuming it will work best on diffuse thinners, or guys at NW3 and below.

*NOTE*

Replace the asterisks with hairsite . com

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## sausage

> It should, but may not restore your hair completely, and probably wont.... here's an OLD before/after photo:
> 
> [IMG]http://www.*************/hair-loss/img/uploaded/2879_image1232.jpg[/IMG]
> 
> Some people are assuming it will work best on diffuse thinners, or guys at NW3 and below.
> 
> *NOTE*
> 
> Replace the asterisks with hairsite . com


 
That photo looks like it was taken in the 1970's with the shittest camera available.  :EEK!: 

The 2nd photo shows ever so slightly more hair in places, byt also shows further hairloss in places....

What is the bald line going from scalp to hairline all about?

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

i dont think you can see much from this foto, we dont know what this foto shows either so.....

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## TravisB

Aderans results were terrible.

It will be nowhere near a cure and most likely will not help baldies. Maybe it will work for people with diffused hair to some extent

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## KO1

The treatment is expected to look like a good responder to finasteride and minoxidil. Basically the "transition zone" of miniaturized hair will shrink which is exactly what happens with good responders to meds.

I don't believe the current treatment they are trialing is expected to generate follicles de novo on virgin scalp, but rather thickening of miniaturized hairs.

As you can imagine, it's likely best if you continue taking finasteride or dutasteride in conjunction with this treatment for best results.

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## Boldy

> As you can imagine, it's likely best if you continue taking finasteride or dutasteride in conjunction with this treatment for best results.


 Indeed!

the injected cells, will have more success if injected in a postive envinronment, instead of a apoptic, negative environment (pgd2, p53, dkk1) (aga scalp) just one of the negative factors..

so I can imagine patients who are taking anti androgens (at least 1-2 month before and after the (FCI) treatment, that it will yield in to bigger success  :Smile: .

or the combination with a histogen- clone-gf-mix + FCI, can even yield into a bigger success rate, in theory.


*FCI = Follicular Cell Implantation
*

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## hellouser

> Indeed!
> 
> the injected cells, will have more success if injected in a postive envinronment, instead of a apoptic, negative environment (pgd2, p53, dkk1) (aga scalp) just one of the negative factors..
> 
> so I can imagine patients who are taking anti androgens (at least 1-2 month before and after the (FCI) treatment, that it will yield in to bigger success .
> 
> or the combination with a histogen- clone-gf-mix + FCI, can even yield into a bigger success rate, in theory.
> 
> 
> ...


 How about Aderans + Replicel and then adding Histogen's growth factors, all while being on a combination of Minox/RU/FIN/CB/CET

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## Westonci

> How about Aderans + Replicel and then adding Histogen's growth factors, all while being on a combination of Minox/RU/FIN/CB/CET


 Throw in some Follica, and you'll have hair like a caveman.

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## FearTheLoss

> How about Aderans + Replicel and then adding Histogen's growth factors, all while being on a combination of Minox/RU/FIN/CB/CET


 Follica and RepliCel are both working for "The Cure"....they would be a stand alone treatment.

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## Phatalis

swear to god. if one of these companies fixes this shit. ill suck some dicks. the whole company.

line em up. free blowjobs down the line of every employee.

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## Westonci

> swear to god. if one of these companies fixes this shit. ill suck some dicks. the whole company.
> 
> line em up. free blowjobs down the line of every employee.


 My sides they hurt, I havent laughed this hard in weeks.  :Big Grin:

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## TheSwingingGate

Reminds me of the bar scene from 'Horrible Bosses.'

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## BoSox

Follica found the cause of baldness and now able to grow new hair.. Honestly, what does it matter if Aderans or whoever come out with. Follica's approach seems much better, they have the real cure. Will be on the market soon, I can sense it.

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## Boldy

> Follica found the cause of baldness and now able to grow new hair.. Honestly, what does it matter if Aderans or whoever come out with. Follica's approach seems much better, they have the real cure. Will be on the market soon, I can sense it.


 
explain yourself. They still have 0% proof on humans. the fgf9 story is not verified yet.

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## FearTheLoss

> explain yourself. They still have 0% proof on humans. the fgf9 story is not verified yet.


 They have grown NEW hair follicles on humans, they just believe fgf9 will boost results.

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## Boldy

> They have grown NEW hair follicles on humans, they just believe fgf9 will boost results.


 You mean the patent, with SHH and or gsk3b inhibitor addition?

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## Conpecia

> Follica found the cause of baldness and now able to grow new hair.. Honestly, what does it matter if Aderans or whoever come out with. Follica's approach seems much better, they have the real cure. Will be on the market soon, I can sense it.


 i just want to know why you think it will be on the market soon. you realize how long costarelis goes between updates, right? i'm thinking 2020.

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## Westonci

> explain yourself. They still have 0&#37; proof on humans. the fgf9 story is not verified yet.


 http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2013/0...dness-therapy/

According to this article by boston based Xconomy

They've already grown new hair on human patients, which is a worlds first.

The editor of that article Ben Fidler interviewed Follica co-founder and PureTech (the company thats funded follica) principal Bernat Olle.

Bernat said himself, in hiw own words.
*
“We’ve been able to consistently show that we create substantial new hair follicles in humans, and that’s something that no other approach in hair loss as far as I am aware has been able to achieve,"*

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## Vox

> The editor of that article Ben Fidler interviewed Follica co-founder and PureTech (the company thats funded follica) principal Bernat Olle.
> 
> Bernat said himself, in hiw own words.
> *
> Weve been able to consistently show that we create substantial new hair follicles in humans, and thats something that no other approach in hair loss as far as I am aware has been able to achieve,"*


 Wow, that's a pretty hefty statement. "Consistently" and "substantial" are here the two keywords with much weight. Looks like they really are onto something but for some reason they go into stealth mode. Any guess why is so?

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## Westonci

Follica is a real mystery, Im willing to bet my house and car that they will be the first ones to come out with a real cure for baldness.

They are backed by Penn Medecine and over $20 million in venture capitalist funding.

Cotsarelis, and Sarah Miller are some of the smartest researchers in the world, and the techniques and methods they use in their research make Aderans and Histogen look like childs play. (to be fair when your backed by a Univesity, you get some really bright people and lots of tools)

These guys will crack it, no question about it.

The question is when?

You can download the paper in the link below

http://www.mediafire.com/download/r0...r+wounding.pdf

http://www.mediafire.com/download/a8...tary+info..pdf

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## john2399

> Follica is a real mystery, Im willing to bet my house and car that they will be the first ones to come out with a real cure for baldness.
> 
> They are backed by Penn Medecine and over $20 million in venture capitalist funding.
> 
> Cotsarelis, and Sarah Miller are some of the smartest researchers in the world, and the techniques and methods they use in their research make Aderans and Histogen look like childs play. (to be fair when your backed by a Univesity, you get some really bright people and lots of tools)
> 
> These guys will crack it, no question about it.
> 
> The question is when?
> ...


 Totally agree. Follica has to be the one to crack this.

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## Kiwi

> Follica is a real mystery, Im willing to bet my house and car that they will be the first ones to come out with a real cure for baldness.
> 
> They are backed by Penn Medecine and over $20 million in venture capitalist funding.
> 
> Cotsarelis, and Sarah Miller are some of the smartest researchers in the world, and the techniques and methods they use in their research make Aderans and Histogen look like childs play. (to be fair when your backed by a Univesity, you get some really bright people and lots of tools)
> 
> These guys will crack it, no question about it.
> 
> The question is when?
> ...


 Are you insane? Follica have grown hair on mice. That's it. What if their technique doesnt work on humans. That would mean Aderans FTW. Follica Epic Fail.

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## Westonci

> Are you insane? Follica have grown hair on mice. That's it. What if their technique doesnt work on humans. That would mean Aderans FTW. Follica Epic Fail.


 I dont think you've read the article properly.

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## john2399

> I dont think you've read the article properly.


 Kiwi is a troll. He has no clue what he is saying.

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## Kiwi

> Kiwi is a troll. He has no clue what he is saying.


 Ouch! Okay I'll read the article. But up until today I've seen nothing from Follica except articles written about growing hair on mice. 

Also I'm not actually a troll. I've been here telling everybody to relax... actually screw it I'd rather be a troll then a scaremonger and freak everybody out :P

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## walrus

> Ouch! Okay I'll read the article. But up until today I've seen nothing from Follica except articles written about growing hair on mice.


 And the reason for this is that mice are a good model for humans with a well characterised hair cycle.

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## UK_

Regarding trolls, if you're new to this website, I must say I'm rather pleased with the individual who started this thread, if it had been started by someone with 1 post I wouldnt have even opened it.  Thanks for clearing the air Westconi.

5* thread.

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## hiilikeyourbeard

i think the reason follica is so quiet is because they're the ones actually onto something, just waiting to release this shit and blow our ****ing MINDS

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## BoSox

> i think the reason follica is so quiet is because they're the ones actually onto something, just waiting to release this shit and blow our ****ing MINDS


 Exactly.

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## hellouser

> i think the reason follica is so quiet is because they're the ones actually onto something, just waiting to release this shit and blow our ****ing MINDS


 From what I know, they require a device that wounds your scalp in order to get FGF9 to make follicles. Apparently it requires pretty deep wounding and theyre thinking of using lasers. FGF9 is already used in certain products, afaik, which means it doesnt require clinical trials.

Sounds promising  :Smile:

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

deep wounding? like what will be then the distance between fgf9 injections? arent the incisions for the fgf material injection enough in terms of wounding?

where can we learn more on this?

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## TravisB

Follica's procedure would have to look like this:

Make a suitable wound that is deep enough (I think a single wound would be similar to FUE punch) -> inject FGF9 in suitable moment into the wound (I guess it would have to be done pretty fast before the healing processes start)-> repeat it thousands of times, because in theory one wound + one injection would create one graft.

So they would have to create some kind of machine that would be doing that fast.

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

thats hi end i think. can you just imagine? no need for donour, i think the problem here will be how close can the wounds be done=density


> Follica's procedure would have to look like this:
> 
> Make a suitable wound that is deep enough (I think a single wound would be similar to FUE punch) -> inject FGF9 in suitable moment into the wound (I guess it would have to be done pretty fast before the healing processes start)-> repeat it thousands of times, because in theory one wound + one injection would create one graft.
> 
> So they would have to create some kind of machine that would be doing that fast.

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## hellouser

Why not use an instrument like the they do for implanting recipient hairs? Would that not be enough for the Follica procedure?

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## KO1

> Follica's procedure would have to look like this:
> 
> Make a suitable wound that is deep enough (I think a single wound would be similar to FUE punch) -> inject FGF9 in suitable moment into the wound (I guess it would have to be done pretty fast before the healing processes start)-> repeat it thousands of times, because in theory one wound + one injection would create one graft.
> 
> So they would have to create some kind of machine that would be doing that fast.


 No. Follica's procedure according to all in so far is totally different from what you said. There isn't going to be tons of tiny little punches. (try needling your scalp). Once you push skin into an embryonic state, you can instruct it to create follicles, and increase them via downregulating PGD2 and upregulating FGF. Follica theorizes you can even modify the characteristics of the neogenic follicles, such as making female follicles by applying topical estrogen. Obviously this needs to be proven.


Assuming Follica is still alive.


It is more likely going to be a large, open wound, such as dermabrasion done with a laser or abrasives, then application of a topical.

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## TravisB

> Assuming Follica is still alive.


 Apparently they ARE alive.

They made that FGF9 update in June, duh

But yeah, it might be also like you said - large open wound then apply all the needed stuff on the whole scalp at once. It would be even easier

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## Pentarou

> Assuming Follica is still alive.


 KO1, I respect your knowledge on MPB, what makes you think that Follica aren't currently "alive"?

They do seem very opaque, if anything. Have they ever carried out human trials?

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## KO1

> KO1, I respect your knowledge on MPB, what makes you think that Follica aren't currently "alive"?
> 
> They do seem very opaque, if anything. Have they ever carried out human trials?


 I am not as knowledgeable as you kindly suggest, but my opinion:

- Follica's team has had a lot of turnover the past few years. Many of their senior staff like Prouty, Barman have left. 

- A number of lower level employees have also left the team. 

- They ran clinical trials three years ago, and haven't ran another one since then. At least if they have that info is not public. A three year gap is pretty substantial IMO.

- Some people have tried similar dermabrasion protocols with topicals like lithium and gefitinib, and haven't gotten any notable regrowth. People used to do that on Hairsite in 08-09. Given that Follica's treatment is dermabrasion+lithium gel, it makes me a little suspicious.

- Last year Garza released a paper showing that PGD2 inhibited HF neogenesis. Since Follica didn't inhibit PGD2 in their clinical trial, I wonder how successful they were.

- Follica wasn't even trying to grow terminal hairs, but rather "neogenic-like" hair follicles, which are smaller than vellus hairs. How do those become terminal?

- Simply put, we just don't think the past procedure of Dermabrasion+Li is enough to create follicles. There has to be more to it. We likely will need to upregulate FGF, inhibit PGD2, and perhaps add estrogen to make them resistant to DHT. But those are all guesses.


I respect Follica's team and the work they do, but, obviously I'm happy to be wrong. In a sense, I suspect the FGF9 study (which they knew years ago btw) was a subtle way of announcing that they are still alive.

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## Thinning87

I think it's pretty safe to say Follica is on to something, they may end up being wrong I guess there's always a chance, but folks if they went out and made the kind of statements they have made so far it means they must have pretty solid evidence to back up what they are saying, I can't believe everyone here is always assuming these researchers are so reckless when they talk.

And as far as all the deadlines, no one can say for sure but I think it's pretty safe to assume if anyone of these companies ends up having a final cure or good substitute, it will be within 5-10 years at most.

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## Pentarou

> I am not as knowledgeable as you kindly suggest, but my opinion:
> 
> - Follica's team has had a lot of turnover the past few years. Many of their senior staff like Prouty, Barman have left. 
> 
> - A number of lower level employees have also left the team. 
> 
> - They ran clinical trials three years ago, and haven't ran another one since then. At least if they have that info is not public. A three year gap is pretty substantial IMO.
> 
> - Some people have tried similar dermabrasion protocols with topicals like lithium and gefitinib, and haven't gotten any notable regrowth. People used to do that on Hairsite in 08-09. Given that Follica's treatment is dermabrasion+lithium gel, it makes me a little suspicious.
> ...


 Thank you for that. Some of that I didn't know, like the fact that they carried out human trials (with an earlier protocol?). Had heard about people's DIY attempts at replicating the Follica technique at home, hope there's a piece in the puzzle missing (PGD2 inhibition?) and it yields results, but I'm not going to be too optimistic for the sake of it.

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## Desmond84

Hey guys  :Smile:  Did Spencer mention anything about Aderans? I missed the show!

Cheers.

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## tom vercetti

> Hey guys  Did Spencer mention anything about Aderans? I missed the show!
> 
> Cheers.


 
Hi desmond84, I would like to ask about your expertise, what do you think is the best way to inject the 3D DP cells into the scalps ? I mean, about the deap etc.. In order to not damage the bulge and to reach a large area of hair ? Any ideas ?

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## JJJJrS

> Hey guys  Did Spencer mention anything about Aderans? I missed the show!
> 
> Cheers.


 He talked about it on yesterday's show.

He said he had a long conversation with Ken Washenik and that the rumors are true. The Aderans board has decided to stop funding the Aderans Research Institute (ARI). Apparently the people involved with ARI want to keep going but they will now have to receive funding from other sources. Spencer alluded to the idea of a possible kickstarter in the future to raise funds.

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## hellouser

> He talked about it on yesterday's show.
> 
> He said he had a long conversation with Ken Washenik and that the rumors are true. The Aderans board has decided to stop funding the Aderans Research Institute (ARI). Apparently the people involved with ARI want to keep going but they will now have to receive funding from other sources. Spencer alluded to the idea of a possible kickstarter in the future to raise funds.


 What? Is this serious or a joke?

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## JJJJrS

> What? Is this serious or a joke?


 100% serious. When the show gets uploaded, you'll be able to confirm it for yourself if you like.

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## hellouser

> 100&#37; serious. When the show gets uploaded, you'll be able to confirm it for yourself if you like.


 So unless someone else is willing to fund Aderans, they're out of the race which leaves only Replicel and Histogen?

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## UK_

*LOL Kickstarter from a company owned by a multi-million $ enterprise.  What bullshit.*

I think it's incredibly shameful of the company not to put out a public anouncement about their closure, we've been following them for the best part of a decade and they cant even tell us that they have failed?

Ridiculous.  Obviously the parent company isn’t happy with the results and is refusing to throw more money at ARI – the thing is, nobody in their right mind will be buying their stupid Hair Club hair replacement products.

I would rather spend a bit more money and go to the HASCI INSTITUTE.

As for the first post, the guy who phoned Aderans was clearly fobbed off with some bullshit by some semi-exec that wanted him off the phone.

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## UK_

Has anyone emailed the company about this and had a response?  I sent one the other day but they're so ignorant they NEVER respond to emails.

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## hellouser

This is easily going to be the worst news of the year  :Frown: 

I'd take their treatment even if the results we're poor, if only it could act like permanent finasteride without the god damn side effects.

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## JJJJrS

> So unless someone else is willing to fund Aderans, they're out of the race which leaves only Replicel and Histogen?


 Spencer seems to believe it wouldn't be too hard to raise the money that they require to move ahead, particular if they do a kickstarter, which he hinted at. Now that Aderans is no longer involved in the project, he believes it may even speed up the process of the treatment reaching the market.

Maybe he's trying to soften the blow of the news but that was his opinion. I personally would not get my hopes up for any of these companies (ARI, Replicel, Histogen) until they show something more concrete. 





> *LOL Kickstarter from a company owned by a multi-million $ enterprise.  What bullshit.*


 It's not owned by a multi-million $ enterprise anymore. Aderans has cut all the funding. ARI is off on their own now it seems.

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## UK_

> It's not owned by a multi-million $ enterprise anymore. Aderans has cut all the funding. ARI is off on their own now it seems.


 Yeah and they've cut ties because of the lackluster results and the constant pushing back of timelines and false promises, ARI havent shown anything concrete - ever.

LOL@"making waves in Hawaii":

http://www.aderansresearch.com/pdfs/PR_01_24_12.pdf

Also, STILL NO FORMAL PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT ON THEIR WEBSITE.  It's disgraceful behaviour, we're hearing about this through a phone call to a radio host, how unprofessional of them.

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## JJJJrS

> Yeah and they've cut ties because of the lackluster results and the constant pushing back of timelines and false promises, ARI dont deserve a penny of our money.


 Overall, when you look at the big picture: Aderans pulling out of the project; auctioning off all the equipment; ~60% success rate of the treatment; lack of photos showing clear hair growth; things don't seem to be too promising.  :Frown:

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## 534623

> He talked about it on yesterday's show.
> 
> He said he had a long conversation with Ken Washenik and that the rumors are true. 
> *The Aderans board has decided to stop funding the Aderans Research Institute (ARI).*


 lol...seems they read my posts at HS ...  :Big Grin: 

Actually, that's not funny:
It took them 11 years to find out what Dr. Gho found out (under high pressure) within a few years.

"Cell-based therapy" ...yeah, sure ...

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## UK_

> Overall, when you look at the big picture: Aderans pulling out of the project; auctioning off all the equipment; ~60% success rate of the treatment; lack of photos showing clear hair growth; things don't seem to be too promising.


 No shit.

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## TheSwingingGate

Maybe they should go on Shark Tank for funding.

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## UK_

No point in funding them.

DP cells wont work!!!  ICX failed and now Aderans!!!  We're wasting time on this.

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## rdawg

Hard to be super negative when it's not like they showed amazing results in the first place.

They had an intriguing product but never really did anything, I'm not gonna be depressed over a product that barely showed results in the first place.

now if Histogen all of sudden collapsed I'd be mad, because it seems like they have at least somewhat of a working product.

----------


## Thinning87

I totally agree. Maybe in 2004 I would have put a lot of hope in them. But now, who cares, I can't see how anyone could have cared after what they (didn't) show last year. 

Go Follica

----------


## garethbale

Joke company, with disgraceful communication skills!

Are they that much of a loss?

Hopefully if Ji Gami does continue it will be run by a company that's a bit more open and honest.

----------


## hellouser

> Joke company, with disgraceful communication skills!
> 
> Are they that much of a loss?
> 
> Hopefully if Ji Gami does continue it will be run by a company that's a bit more open and honest.


 More important is the release date... they had plans for next year to have a commercial product.

----------


## garethbale

> More important is the release date... they had plans for next year to have a commercial product.


 Doubt that was ever viable. I just hope that the research doesn't go to waste. Then again if nothing comes of it, it probably wasn't that promising in the first place.

----------


## KO1

So now...mass suicide?

This was by far the best funded, and most sophisticated operation. Replicel is a joke compared to ARI.

Unless Nigam can figure it out, we're going to be waiting for many many years gentlemen. (I'm ignoring Follica as I have no knowledge of them).

MPB just doesn't have the pipeline to justify any optimism. No large pharma invests in MPB, the rest is left to tiny operations like Follica or Replicel and a wig company funding ARI.

----------


## Breaking Bald

> So now...mass suicide?
> 
> This was by far the best funded, and most sophisticated operation. Replicel is a joke compared to ARI.
> 
> Unless Nigam can figure it out, we're going to be waiting for many many years gentlemen. (I'm ignoring Follica as I have no knowledge of them)


 What about Histogen?

----------


## KO1

> What about Histogen?


 Histogen will help, but I don't think it's a game changer.

----------


## Breaking Bald

Yeah maybe so, really sucks about Aderans but let's move on. Still don't really get Dr Nigams but I hope he is onto something, why do you think he 'panders' to us on the forums? As Spencer puts it. When most other surgeons, scientists stay clear of them.

----------


## Pentarou

How do we know that Aderans didn't kill off ARI because because it worked too well and threatened their wig and HT interests?

----------


## garethbale

> So now...mass suicide?
> 
> This was by far the best funded, and most sophisticated operation. Replicel is a joke compared to ARI


 what are you basing that on?

I saw nothing from Aderans to suggest they were any better than Replicel

----------


## Breaking Bald

> How do we know that Aderans didn't kill off ARI because because it worked too well and threatened their wig and HT interests?


 Seems very plausible  :Big Grin:

----------


## KO1

> what are you basing that on?
> 
> I saw nothing from Aderans to suggest they were any better than Replicel


 What do you find so great about Replicel? ARI had invested much more than Replicel, and had a more sophisticated understanding of the science. Rep was a similar technology just based on the idea that DSC cells would prove superior.

----------


## garethbale

> What do you find so great about Replicel? ARI had invested much more than Replicel, and had a more sophisticated understanding of the science. Rep was a similar technology just based on the idea that DSC cells would prove superior.


 I don't find anything particularly great about Replicel, but at least HM(or some form of follicle creation) seems their main goal.

Aderans had a number of interests, which leads me to believe Ji Gami wasn't that high on their list of priorities and they're perhaps not so concerned by its (apparent) failure

----------


## UK_

> How do we know that Aderans didn't kill off ARI because because it worked too well and threatened their wig and HT interests?


 Obvious to me  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:

----------


## Pentarou

> I don't find anything particularly great about Replicel, but at least HM(or done dory of follicle creation) seems their main goal.
> 
> Aderans had a number of interests, which leads me to believe Ji Gami wasn't that high on their list of priorities and they're perhaps not so concerned by its (apparent) failure


 The point is that ARI had major serious financial backing that NONE of the competitors, certainly not Replicel, have or had. Big Pharma doesn't want us to have a 'cure'.

----------


## UK_

There's no conspiracy here, the results were shit and that's that.  Obviously the people funding ARI felt the results of Phase II didnt justify a Phase III.

DP cells wont work, I dont even know if DSC cells (Replicels technique) will work either, as their phase I results were hardly amazing.

Everything now rests on Replicels Phase II results which are a year away and whatever Histogen can pull out.  I think we're a long long way off a cure guys.

----------


## hellouser

Would it not be possible to see a combination of Aderans and Replicel now? One procedure following the other? That could give some interesting results.... suppose Replicel or Shiseido decided to buy them out?

----------


## garethbale

> The point is that ARI had major serious financial backing that NONE of the competitors, certainly not Replicel, have or had. Big Pharma doesn't want us to have a 'cure'.


 Hmm...not sure I buy all those conspiracy theories. Why would Aderans invest so much money into something to only then stop it because it threatens their wig and transplant interests. Makes no sense

They probably just discontinued it because they don't feel it's worth it financially to continue

----------


## KO1

> Would it not be possible to see a combination of Aderans and Replicel now? One procedure following the other? That could give some interesting results.... suppose Replicel or Shiseido decided to buy them out?


 No. ARI's solution was more comprehensive than Replicel. No benefit to combining them.

Replicel = DSC cells
ARI = DP and HF bulge cells. TWO cell types create crosstalk.

----------


## KO1

> No. ARI's solution was more comprehensive than Replicel. No benefit to combining them.
> 
> Replicel = DSC cells
> ARI = DP and HF bulge cells. TWO cell types create crosstalk.


 I think Nigam is ahead of Replicel btw. He is doing 3D DP culture, and using bulge cells. Nobody has done that to my knowledge...

----------


## 25 going on 65

> The point is that ARI had major serious financial backing that NONE of the competitors, certainly not Replicel, have or had. Big Pharma doesn't want us to have a 'cure'.


 Fin & minox are commercial failures so I do not see the motivation to kill off new treatments that might actually make good money

----------


## FearTheLoss

hopefully replicel and histogen release their products even if they aren't a "cure".... 

I just hope histogen gets the funding and can start phase IIb already so we can get HSC on the market in 2015 for nonwestern countries....histogen, from what we have seen so far, blows propecia and minox out of the water..that's a good start....also it would be very interesting to see what HSC injections could do for donor regeneration in surgery..the growth factors could create great regeneration..kind of like what Dr. Nigam's is claiming to do with his donor doubling and growth factors right now..

----------


## KO1

Histogen and Propecia are COMPLEMENTS. It does not blow propecia out of the water. I still don't understand how Histogen's hair is going to be DHT resistant, maybe somebody can explain it to me.

----------


## greatjob!

> The point is that ARI had major serious financial backing that NONE of the competitors, certainly not Replicel, have or had. Big Pharma doesn't want us to have a 'cure'.


 Why would big pharma not want us to have a cure? You are venturing into tin foil hat territory my friend

----------


## Breaking Bald

> Histogen and Propecia are COMPLEMENTS. It does not blow propecia out of the water. I still don't understand how Histogen's hair is going to be DHT resistant, maybe somebody can explain it to me.


 No I don't think they will be DHT resistant, you will probably need top ups.

----------


## FearTheLoss

I'm not positive where I read this, but somewhere I remember it saying HSC doesn't make hairs DHT resistant...it's just DHT doesn't have an affect on the hairs because they are too healthy and there is too many growth factors keeping the hair healthy enough that DHT can't weaken the follicle...

That being said I'm sure they are complimentary and you could achieve better results being on propecia as well, but if you're just looking for some regrowth and maintenance than HSC will do that for you. 

Again, my main interest lies in what it could do for donor regeneration.

----------


## hellouser

> I'm not positive where I read this, but somewhere I remember it saying HSC doesn't make hairs DHT resistant...it's just DHT doesn't have an affect on the hairs because they are too healthy and there is too many growth factors keeping the hair healthy enough that DHT can't weaken the follicle...
> 
> That being said I'm sure they are complimentary and you could achieve better results being on propecia as well, but if you're just looking for some regrowth and maintenance than HSC will do that for you. 
> 
> Again, my main interest lies in what it could do for donor regeneration.


 It was probably me that said it. Essentially the strength of growth factors from histogens HSC is too much for DHT to have any kind of effect on the hair follicle.

Lets hope its true.

I really hope that one less player in the race doesn't give Histogen and Replicel the idea that they can relax and take longer to release a product without any competition taking away from their sales.

I've got my cash ready to spend on a treatment with either unless theyre going beyond 10k.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> It was probably me that said it. Essentially the strength of growth factors from histogens HSC is too much for DHT to have any kind of effect on the hair follicle.
> 
> Lets hope its true.
> 
> I really hope that one less player in the race doesn't give Histogen and Replicel the idea that they can relax and take longer to release a product without any competition taking away from their sales.
> 
> I've got my cash ready to spend on a treatment with either unless theyre going beyond 10k.


 It very well may have been, I think a few of us had a long conversation about it on PHG...but I don't think they are seeing it that way, they want their product out there so they can make there money....and also, don't forget about follica being back in the game.

In the end I still have my highest hopes in CB being a definite product coming to the market in 2016-2017....

hopefully we can get histogen or replicel in 2015

----------


## hellouser

> It very well may have been, I think a few of us had a long conversation about it on PHG...but I don't think they are seeing it that way, they want their product out there so they can make there money....and also, don't forget about follica being back in the game.
> 
> In the end I still have my highest hopes in CB being a definite product coming to the market in 2016-2017....
> 
> hopefully we can get histogen or replicel in 2015


 CB release in 2016+ won't matter if we can get a decent fvcking source, the whole purity debacle is nuts. I got my Oleyl and PG, all I need is some proper CB and I can tackle this lousy disease with ease.. add a Gho procedure and I'll look normal in the eyes of society without gimping me just because I have a lousy hairline. Shallow fvcks.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> CB release in 2016+ won't matter if we can get a decent fvcking source, the whole purity debacle is nuts. I got my Oleyl and PG, all I need is some proper CB and I can tackle this lousy disease with ease.. add a Gho procedure and I'll look normal in the eyes of society without gimping me just because I have a lousy hairline. Shallow fvcks.


 yeah bro I feel you...but I'm sure cosmo will have a vehicle that is superior to oleyl and pg...it would be nice if they could have started these ****ing trails for hair already...

but can't they start at phase II because CB will already be FDA approved for acne? 

CB has already proven much better than propecia and no sides...we need this now, it's a game changer...especially for people who won't or can't take fin. 

Cosmo says soonest for their hair product is 2016...so we may as well bank on 2017 because I'm sure something will go wrong..as usual.

----------


## hellouser

> yeah bro I feel you...but I'm sure cosmo will have a vehicle that is superior to oleyl and pg...it would be nice if they could have started these ****ing trails for hair already...
> 
> but can't they start at phase II because CB will already be FDA approved for acne? 
> 
> CB has already proven much better than propecia and no sides...we need this now, it's a game changer...especially for people who won't or can't take fin. 
> 
> Cosmo says soonest for their hair product is 2016...so we may as well bank on 2017 because I'm sure something will go wrong..as usual.


 When is their acne product supposed to be released?

Once that is out, I have a feeling labs would have an easier time replicating it... as well us us being able to find a proper vehicle as well.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> When is their acne product supposed to be released?
> 
> Once that is out, I have a feeling labs would have an easier time replicating it... as well us us being able to find a proper vehicle as well.


 I'm sure the dosage and vehicle will be different for acne and hair though? acne is supposed to be out end of 2014-2015....

hair best case scenario is 2016..for the official product.

----------


## KO1

CB is again, another antiandrogen, no different from RU. To the guys who are already taking RU or fin or dut, it is not a game changer.

But it's nice to have. The main advantage is that it is not systemically active, but RU is not that systemic either.


Introduction of CB will simply allow you to complete the antiandrogen portion. Reduce DHT w/ Finasteride, and degrade AR's with CB.

----------


## KO1

I'm not expecting much in the way of growth stimulants better than minox, the pipeline just isnt there. I think cell treatments are more likely. Mostly because of Nigam, or if Replicel somehow releases in Japan after P2. But as of now, Replicel is the only company doing "Hair Multiplication" as it was originally envisioned...o well.

Even if ARI only got 60&#37; growth, I'd try it. I don't get growth off minox.

----------


## Pentarou

> CB is again, another antiandrogen, no different from RU. To the guys who are already taking RU or fin or dut, it is not a game changer.
> 
> But it's nice to have. The main advantage is that it is not systemically active, but RU is not that systemic either.
> 
> 
> Introduction of CB will simply allow you to complete the antiandrogen portion. Reduce DHT w/ Finasteride, and degrade AR's with CB.


 CB (the real stuff, not black market) will be a game changer!  :Smile:  It'll help longer term maintenance without requiring a switch from Fin to Dut, and would appeal too millions of men who either don't treat hairloss due to fear of Fin (however generally unfounded) or who wouldn't previously be aware of hair loss treatment as a viable option.

----------


## FearTheLoss

CB also has great anti inflammatory properties which is another contributing factor of hair loss.

----------


## FearTheLoss

and the initial proof of concept trial showed a 40% increase in density...that kicks the shit out of fin. 

CB addresses more issues than fin that's the thing...without sides...game changer for many.

----------


## hellouser

> and the initial proof of concept trial showed a 40% increase in density...that kicks the shit out of fin. 
> 
> CB addresses more issues than fin that's the thing...without sides...game changer for many.


 Its actually more than 40%. At 1% concentration Cosmo saw 71 grafts/cm2 jump to 109 and at 5% concentration the jump was marginally better from 73 to 111.

*The increase in density was roughly 54-55%.*

Also, hair diameter went from 0.41mm thickness to 0.88mm.

All without f.cking around with a guys hormones, unlike finasteride garbage.

----------


## Arashi

> Its actually more than 40%. At 1% concentration Cosmo saw 71 grafts/cm2 jump to 109 and at 5% concentration the jump was marginally better from 73 to 111.
> 
> *The increase in density was roughly 54-55%.*
> 
> Also, hair diameter went from 0.41mm thickness to 0.88mm.
> 
> All without f.cking around with a guys hormones, unlike finasteride garbage.


 Where can we read more about these results ?

----------


## Desmond84

OMG so we were right about Aderans! <SIGH>

If we don't hear from Histogen by September, there is enough reason to be concerned about them too.

----------


## hellouser

> OMG so we were right about Aderans! <SIGH>
> 
> If we don't hear from Histogen by September, there is enough reason to be concerned about them too.


 When and if for sure Aderans folds, Histogen should release a big update and steal the spotlight and in turn gain more awareness once theyre ready to release a product.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> OMG so we were right about Aderans! <SIGH>
> 
> If we don't hear from Histogen by September, there is enough reason to be concerned.


 I don't think so, Gail Naughton said 3 years to release in nonwestern countries at the end of 2012. So that would give them all of 2013 to find an investor and plan the phase IIb trails...which would then be 18 months and the release would be right after that.

And do you really think they won't be able to find a partner to bring this product to the market after the got the results they had? and let's not forget that they haven't even done their dose ranging trial so those results can improve... 

They have had better results than any company to date (that we know of), so they should easily get a partner.

----------


## hellouser

> Where can we read more about these results ?


 

Taken from Cosmo's release. Those numbers are awesome.

----------


## Desmond84

On a more positive note, just because Ji Gami's cell treatment didn't work doesn't mean new companies will NOT tackle the problem from a new angle!

We live in the age of cell therapies gentlemen, better treatments will come out! It is getting cheaper and cheaper to replicate stem cells, perform genetic testing, screen for trichogenicity and pluripotency, etc! 

Future trials will be far more cost-effective than the ones Aderans ran in the last decade. They laid the foundations for the new guys to build on. As we unravel the mysteries of stem cells in the next 5 years, researchers will take advantage of the new possibilities and will try again. 

We will have our hairs back to NW1 eventually, just have to be patient and find a current treatment that works for us today until these better treatments come along.

----------


## Arashi

> Taken from Cosmo's release. Those numbers are awesome.


 That's indeed extremely encouraging !! Was there more in the release paper ? I can't seem to find anything on Cosmo's site ..

----------


## hellouser

> That's indeed extremely encouraging !! Was there more in the release paper ? I can't seem to find anything on Cosmo's site ..


 Thats basically the only page worth reading. Those numbers are the reason why I'm dying to get on CB.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> On a more positive note, just because Ji Gami's cell treatment didn't work doesn't mean new companies will NOT tackle the problem from a new angle!
> 
> We live in the age of cell therapies gentlemen, better treatments will come out! It is getting cheaper and cheaper to replicate stem cells, perform genetic testing, screen for trichogenicity and pluripotency, etc! 
> 
> Future trials will be far more cost-effective than the ones Aderans ran in the last decade. They laid the foundations for the new guys to build on. As we unravel the mysteries of stem cells in the next 5 years, researchers will take advantage of the new possibilities and will try again. 
> 
> We will have our hairs back to NW1 eventually, just have to be patient and find a current treatment that works for us today until these better treatments come along.


 
I completely agree. Also, this whole ordeal may be tackled from a surgical perspective, if we can get 50% donor regeneration it's only a matter of time before we get that up to 100% and I see that being not far away. Not to mention we have follica who could have a treatment out whenever..they have been silent, but they are obviously on to something big. 

That being said I sure wish HSC and CB were out on the market today, I'd get a hairtransplant and hairloss would be a thing of the past for me.

----------


## Desmond84

> When and if for sure Aderans folds, Histogen should release a big update and steal the spotlight and in turn gain more awareness once theyre ready to release a product.


 


> I don't think so, Gail Naughton said 3 years to release in nonwestern countries at the end of 2012. So that would give them all of 2013 to find an investor and plan the phase IIb trails...which would then be 18 months and the release would be right after that.
> 
> And do you really think they won't be able to find a partner to bring this product to the market after the got the results they had? and let's not forget that they haven't even done their dose ranging trial so those results can improve... 
> 
> They have had better results than any company to date (that we know of), so they should easily get a partner.


 Who would have thought that the one that is producing the best results will find it hardest to find an investor! 

Oh BTW regarding the Asian release, I have a friend in Singapore that works in the Pharma industry and she was telling me that Singapore still requires a Phase 3 trial but what they allow the companies to do is to use the patients data from Phase 1 & 2 trials as part of Phase 3. So in other words, if you need 1500 trial subjects for your Phase 3 trial, and you have already tested it in 500 subjects in Phase 2 trial, you're allowed to submit your Phase 3 data for the first 1000 of your trial subjects in order to gain product approval. 

So pretty much Singapore still requires a Phase 3 but you might gain approval 1-2 years earlier, both because you don't need as many trial subjects to complete the protocol and the fact that their drug approval process is much faster than Western countries. 

So I think we should definitely try and clarify this with Gail if she ever comes to see Spencer again.

----------


## Arashi

> Thats basically the only page worth reading. Those numbers are the reason why I'm dying to get on CB.


 I haven't been following CB. But this chemical is currently not available on the market ? It's patented by Cosmo and thus we'll have to wait till its FDA approved ?

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Who would have thought that the one that is producing the best results will find it hardest to find an investor! 
> 
> Oh BTW regarding the Asian release, I have a friend in Singapore that works in the Pharma industry and she was telling me that Singapore still requires a Phase 3 trial but what they allow the companies to do is to use the patients data from Phase 1 & 2 trials as part of Phase 3. So in other words, if you need 1500 trial subjects for your Phase 3 trial, and you have already tested it in 500 subjects in Phase 2 trial, you're allowed to submit your Phase 3 data for the first 1000 of your trial subjects in order to gain product approval. 
> 
> So pretty much Singapore still requires a Phase 3 but you might gain approval 1-2 years earlier, both because you don't need as many trial subjects to complete the protocol and the fact that their drug approval process is much faster than Western countries. 
> 
> So I think we should definitely try and clarify this with Gail if she ever comes to Spencer again.


 
What about places like India? I'm sure they could release there right away...I'm sure there are places far less strict than Singapore..

----------


## hellouser

> I haven't been following CB. But this chemical is currently not available on the market ? It's patented by Cosmo and thus we'll have to wait till its FDA approved ?


 No, you'll get it the same way you would with RU. Black market, so to speak.

----------


## Desmond84

> I completely agree. Also, this whole ordeal may be tackled from a surgical perspective, if we can get 50% donor regeneration it's only a matter of time before we get that up to 100% and I see that being not far away. Not to mention we have follica who could have a treatment out whenever..they have been silent, but they are obviously on to something big. 
> 
> That being said I sure wish HSC and CB were out on the market today, I'd get a hairtransplant and hairloss would be a thing of the past for me.


 Yeah HT is a decent option as well! Dr Wesley's scarless FUE is also very interesting...

I would personally wait till late 2015 to have another look @ the MPB forecast before going ahead with a hair transplant though. 

By 2015, we should have a clear picture of:
CB-03-01 release date
Replicel's efficacy
Follica's trial results
Histogen's release date
Tsuji lab's progress
Dr Wesley's Scarless FUE launch

----------


## Desmond84

> What about places like India? I'm sure they could release there right away...I'm sure there are places far less strict than Singapore..


 Not too sure about India. Dr Nigam would be the best person to ask that question from! Don't forget that a lot of their regulatory systems were based on Britain so it may not be as easy as we think!

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Not too sure about India. Dr Nigam would be the best person to ask that question from! Don't forget that a lot of their regulatory systems were based on Britain so it may not be as easy as we think!


 Well if he's doing what he's saying he's doing on here than I'm sure histogen would be able to release...it seems Dr. Nigams is using some of the same growth factors as histogen...

Also, we will know basically everything about Dr. Wesley's technique this October when he presents at the hair conference...assuming he's still doing that, I know he is running another trail to figure out the regeneration aspect.

----------


## hellouser

Oh how I wish we had more evidence of Dr. Nigams work being credible... I'd go in a heartbeat to be socially accepted.

----------


## Desmond84

> Well if he's doing what he's saying he's doing on here than I'm sure histogen would be able to release...it seems Dr. Nigams is using some of the same growth factors as histogen...
> 
> Also, we will know basically everything about Dr. Wesley's technique this October when he presents at the hair conference...assuming he's still doing that, I know he is running another trail to figure out the regeneration aspect.


 No way!!!!! He's trying the regeneration theory? What a champion man  :Smile:

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Oh how I wish we had more evidence of Dr. Nigams work being credible... I'd go in a heartbeat to be socially accepted.


 Hell check out my post in the Gho section, there are some things to consider....I am holding off on my treatment with Gho now until after new years when we know what pilofocus and nigam have to offer...as well as GC's documented case on HST..then we will know the actual donor regeneration figure from Gho..

----------


## FearTheLoss

> No way!!!!! He's trying the regeneration theory? What a champion man


 I don't know if you have paid attention to the thread on here regarding it...or if you listened to the show when spencer talked about it...but right now there is anecdotal evidence showing a substantial amount of regrowth in the clinic trails he has had..

The scarless technique was supposed to be released to the public the end of this year, but because of the regeneration he was seeing in patients...he has decided to run another trial the end of this year to see what the regeneration number could consistently be and if they can continuously do this with every patient..


that is what I have gathered from everything I have read on it...but from what spencer has seen presented to him he said this could be a "game changer"

----------


## hellouser

> I don't know if you have paid attention to the thread on here regarding it...or if you listened to the show when spencer talked about it...but right now there is anecdotal evidence showing a substantial amount of regrowth in the clinic trails he has had..
> 
> The scarless technique was supposed to be released to the public the end of this year, but because of the regeneration he was seeing in patients...he has decided to run another trial the end of this year to see what the regeneration number could consistently be and if they can continuously do this with every patient..
> 
> 
> that is what I have gathered from everything I have read on it...but from what spencer has seen presented to him he said this could be a "game changer"


 When would we be able to get pilofocus with regeneration? Any idea how much it'd cost?

----------


## FearTheLoss

> When would we be able to get pilofocus with regeneration? Any idea how much it'd cost?


 We need to wait and see if this last trial confirms the regeneration continuously at a good number...but then it should be less than a year until it's out...mid 2014. 

I have no idea of the cost though.

----------


## hellouser

> We need to wait and see if this last trial confirms the regeneration continuously at a good number...but then it should be less than a year until it's out...mid 2014. 
> 
> I have no idea of the cost though.


 Mid 2014? That fast? Wow... I might hold off on the idea of a Gho procedure as well. Something tells me you and I both need about 3-4,000 grafts to be back to a NW1 with full density?

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Mid 2014? That fast? Wow... I might hold off on the idea of a Gho procedure as well. Something tells me you and I both need about 3-4,000 grafts to be back to a NW1 with full density?


 Exactly, that's why I canceled the procedure I had planned..I want to wait and see how things play out with this and Nigam...

and I need about 2500 grafts to be nw1 and good density. I have blonde hair and fair skin so I don't actually need a lot of grafts for it to look dense. 

but god would I love to have my hairline done by Dr. Rahal...he's an artist

----------


## JJJJrS

They're replaying the show here if anyone wants to hear the Aderans news for themselves:

http://www.thebaldtruth.com/watch-live/

(there's a brief moment during the broadcast where the sound doesn't work btw)

----------


## hellouser

> They're replaying the show here if anyone wants to hear the Aderans news for themselves:
> 
> http://www.thebaldtruth.com/watch-live/
> 
> (there's a brief moment during the broadcast where the sound doesn't work btw)


 There's a part of me that hopes you heard something wrong or took something out of context...

*fingers desperately crossed*

----------


## JJJJrS

> There's a part of me that hopes you heard something wrong or took something out of context...
> 
> *fingers desperately crossed*


 Definitely not the case unfortunately

----------


## Desmond84

Things will get better guys. But we must be realistic. True cell-based hair multiplication will be coming *after 2020*...Everything else in the pipeline (apart from HT) will be to maintain and provide slight regrowth.

Take Finasteride and/or use Minoxidil....get a haircut you are happy with and live  the next 7+ years as best as you can!

As much as ppl down-play the discussions on the forums, its collective voice is actually quite a powerful tool in terms of assessing what is happening in the field of hair loss and Research & Development. 

From the Histogen & Replicel results, to Dr Gho's rate of regeneration and the Aderans headquarters closing down, the best and most thorough analysis came from the forums! I mean we had ppl doing vellus and terminal hair counts on Histogen's trial photos back in October 2012, which was showing similar hair counts in before and after photos, which was later admitted by Histogen in June 2013 that hair count only increased by 2.5% (at least in the temples)! They emphasised the fact that they were referring to the change of vellus hairs to terminal count increasing by 20% rather than total hair count itself!

----------


## TheSwingingGate

> That being said I sure wish HSC and CB were out on the market today, I'd get a hairtransplant and hairloss would be a thing of the past for me.


 ^This.

----------


## KO1

The other reason fin/dut/RU/other antiandrogens is important even if these treatments do come out is that they will tend to work better for miniaturized hair, or if your loss is not too much. As Desmond pointed out, Histogen's treatment is thickening up miniaturized hairs rather than gneerating new growth. Keep your follicles alive even if you need to put on life support!

I think the science we have is good and holds strong potential. But to put it into an actual treatment pipeline is a different story. So for Cell based treatments, I think Nigam is now the frontrunner.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> The other reason fin/dut/RU/other antiandrogens is important even if these treatments do come out is that they will tend to work better for miniaturized hair, or if your loss is not too much. As Desmond pointed out, Histogen's treatment is thickening up miniaturized hairs rather than gneerating new growth. Keep your follicles alive even if you need to put on life support!
> 
> I think the science we have is good and holds strong potential. But to put it into an actual treatment pipeline is a different story. So for Cell based treatments, I think Nigam is now the frontrunner.


 
Than again, Nigam claims he can turn a nw7 to a nw2 just by donor doubling...so I guess every company out there working on hair cloning is pretty much wasting their time if you believe Nigam.

----------


## x4342

> Things will get better guys. But we must be realistic. True cell-based hair multiplication will be coming *after 2020*...Everything else in the pipeline (apart from HT) will be to maintain and provide slight regrowth.
> 
> Take Finasteride and/or use Minoxidil....get a haircut you are happy with and live  the next 7+ years as best as you can!
> 
> As much as ppl down-play the discussions on the forums, its collective voice is actually quite a powerful tool in terms of assessing what is happening in the field of hair loss and Research & Development. 
> 
> From the Histogen & Replicel results, to Dr Gho's rate of regeneration and the Aderans headquarters closing down, the best and most thorough analysis came from the forums! I mean we had ppl doing vellus and terminal hair counts on Histogen's trial photos back in October 2012, which was showing similar hair counts in before and after photos, which was later admitted by Histogen in June 2013 that hair count only increased by 2.5% (at least in the temples)! They emphasised the fact that they were referring to the change of vellus hairs to terminal count increasing by 20% rather than total hair count itself!


 
I think your advice is absolutely excellent and it's what Spencer preaches.  Hope for the best, but live for today.  Still, I can't ignore that an individual's situation plays a big role in how easy it is to take this approach.  From what you've said your own loss is essentially minimal, more in the "mature" range and you are reasonably young.  I'm in worse shape, though admittedly far better shape than many other posters.  Sadly, it will be much easier for some people to take the whole "just stabilize and forget about it" approach then others.

Take two situations.  One guy is 24 with extremely minor hair loss that he has managed to stabilize.  Socially, most people don't even notice.  He doesn't like it, but it's not exactly killing his looks.  It shouldn't be hard for him to simply move on with his life knowing that he'll eventually have his perfect hair back while he's still relatively young.
On the other hand you have some 50+ year old guy with horrible hair loss.  Telling him "just stabilize and wait" just doesn't work as well.  First his hair loss is going to be constantly effecting his day to day life and second there will be a point where getting it back will probably be somewhat bittersweet.
Imagine some 65 year old guy who has been bald since 25 returning to his original teenage hair.  I'd bet he'd be happy, yet also feel bittersweet about the whole thing.  What's he going to do, run back to the beach and try and relieve his lost prime years?

Joe from Staten Island is obviously a bit off, but I can emphasize with him simply because I feel his desperation.  If I was that old and in that bad shape, I can't imagine how I would be encouraged by hearing "things will be different in 10 years."

----------


## hellouser

> Than again, Nigam claims he can turn a nw7 to a nw2 just by donor doubling...so I guess every company out there working on hair cloning is pretty much wasting their time if you believe Nigam.


 NW7 - NW2 is 5 stages of Norwood.

From what I've seen on the forum, each norwood level is about 1,500 grafts.

5 x 1,500 = 7,500 grafts.

If thats the case, he could easily turn an NW3 into an NW0 or even NW1 for a normal mature hairline on anyone over the age of 30.

God damn am I ever tempted to go for doubling with Nigam. Is his procedure scarless?

----------


## Desmond84

> I think your advice is absolutely excellent and it's what Spencer preaches.  Hope for the best, but live for today.  Still, I can't ignore that an individual's situation plays a big role in how easy it is to take this approach.  From what you've said your own loss is essentially minimal, more in the "mature" range and you are reasonably young.  I'm in worse shape, though admittedly far better shape than many other posters.  Sadly, it will be much easier for some people to take the whole "just stabilize and forget about it" approach then others.
> 
> Take two situations.  One guy is 24 with extremely minor hair loss that he has managed to stabilize.  Socially, most people don't even notice.  He doesn't like it, but it's not exactly killing his looks.  It shouldn't be hard for him to simply move on with his life knowing that he'll eventually have his perfect hair back while he's still relatively young.
> On the other hand you have some 50+ year old guy with horrible hair loss.  Telling him "just stabilize and wait" just doesn't work as well.  First his hair loss is going to be constantly effecting his day to day life and second there will be a point where getting it back will probably be somewhat bittersweet.
> Imagine some 65 year old guy who has been bald since 25 returning to his original teenage hair.  I'd bet he'd be happy, yet also feel bittersweet about the whole thing.  What's he going to do, run back to the beach and try and relieve his lost prime years?
> 
> Joe from Staten Island is obviously a bit off, but I can emphasize with him simply because I feel his desperation.  If I was that old and in that bad shape, I can't imagine how I would be encouraged by hearing "things will be different in 10 years."


 Brother I completely understand and I wish I had an answer for this horrible dilemma Joe and others in his age group are in. 

I think we need to form a new thread just for those 40+ year olds that are suffering from hair loss and how they are coping with it! Their maturity and wisdom may also add huge benefits to the forum in general.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> NW7 - NW2 is 5 stages of Norwood.
> 
> From what I've seen on the forum, each norwood level is about 1,500 grafts.
> 
> 5 x 1,500 = 7,500 grafts.
> 
> If thats the case, he could easily turn an NW3 into an NW0 or even NW1 for a normal mature hairline on anyone over the age of 30.
> 
> God damn am I ever tempted to go for doubling with Nigam. Is his procedure scarless?


 The crown definitely takes more grafts though...I'd say if you're a nw7 you need at least 11k grafts+ for decent density...but Nigam claims donor doubling is "unlimited donor" so I guess anything is doable. 

Yes, his procedure is supposed to be "scarless" but it's not scarless in the aspect that Dr. Wesley's will be...there is still micro-scarring and always the potential for visible scarring even with Dr. Gho...

but Dr. Wesley's new technique is COMPLETELY SCARLESS...like not even any micro-scarring.

----------


## hellouser

Seriously, where the fvck is Dr. Lauster?!

Dude cracked it THREE YEARS AGO and we've heard fvckall from him! Why isn't there anything available for us from his method?!

----------


## hellouser

> The crown definitely takes more grafts though...I'd say if you're a nw7 you need at least 11k grafts+ for decent density...but Nigam claims donor doubling is "unlimited donor" so I guess anything is doable. 
> 
> Yes, his procedure is supposed to be "scarless" but it's not scarless in the aspect that Dr. Wesley's will be...there is still micro-scarring and always the potential for visible scarring even with Dr. Gho...
> 
> but Dr. Wesley's new technique is COMPLETELY SCARLESS...like not even any micro-scarring.


 Could Dr. Nigam use pilofocus for doubling?

----------


## x4342

> Seriously, where the fvck is Dr. Lauster?!
> 
> Dude cracked it THREE YEARS AGO and we've heard fvckall from him! Why isn't there anything available for us from his method?!


 





Sorry, couldn't resist.

 :Smile:

----------


## hellouser

Aside from Aderans, we've still got Replicel and Histogen along with Follica (debatable though).

Given Aderan's slow ass progress, seeing how it took them a decade to get through two phases, I've got more faith in Replicel to bust through their second phase and have an Asia release in 2015, they haven't been around for long and already passed Phase I. Histogen only needs one more phase for an Asia release as well.

It aint over until they're out of the picture as well.

----------


## KO1

> Than again, Nigam claims he can turn a nw7 to a nw2 just by donor doubling...so I guess every company out there working on hair cloning is pretty much wasting their time if you believe Nigam.


 Not exactly. Dr Nigam has been clear (I think) that doubling will only give the illusion of a NW2 and not true density, for that you will need HM.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Not exactly. Dr Nigam has been clear (I think) that doubling will only give the illusion of a NW2 and not true density, for that you will need HM.


 yes because hair transplants can only give illusion of full density..grafts can't be placed close enough together even with unlimited donor to achieve complete teenage density for some...

but he claims that donor doubling is unlimited donor...and you can keep going in an re-harvesting the donor because it regenerates 100%+

----------


## hellouser

> yes because hair transplants can only give illusion of full density..grafts can't be placed close enough together even with unlimited donor to achieve complete teenage density for some...
> 
> but he claims that donor doubling is unlimited donor...and you can keep going in an re-harvesting the donor because it regenerates 100%+


 Then go for two sessions and youre done.

An NW4 or less would basically just need filler rather than starting from nothing. Only issue is: scarring! I wouldnt want the back of my head to look like Hiroshima after a procedure... its like 'Get hair on top, FUBAR the back of head'

----------


## hiilikeyourbeard

anyone know nigams pricing?

----------


## x4342

> Brother I completely understand and I wish I had an answer for this horrible dilemma Joe and others in his age group are in. 
> 
> I think we need to form a new thread just for those 40+ year olds that are suffering from hair loss and how they are coping with it! Their maturity and wisdom may also add huge benefits to the forum in general.


 
My doctor said something about how people like that essentially needed to "make peace" with their hair loss.  As much as I don't like my hair I am *extremely* grateful I am not one of those people who went bald in the 80s.  First there was nothing they could do to stop it and they just had to accept watching the process rather than fighting back.  Second, they know that even if they do eventually get full heads of hair back they will be too old to fully take advantage of it.  -Definitely puts things in perspective when I am whining about my hair situation.

----------


## hellouser

> My doctor said something about how people like that essentially needed to "make peace" with their hair loss.  As much as I don't like my hair I am *extremely* grateful I am not one of those people who went bald in the 80s.  First there was nothing they could do to stop it and they just had to accept watching the process rather than fighting back.  Second, they know that even if they do eventually get full heads of hair back they will be too old to fully take advantage of it.  -Definitely puts things in perspective when I am whining about my hair situation.


 Its all relative so using the past as something to be happy about is redundant. It doesn't help the situation and you're still going to get screwed by society's shallowness.

----------


## hellouser

Aderans finally had their Clinical Trials entries updated:

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/result...&Search=Search

Interesting that all of the trials got completed. Now here's the thing to think about**:

Phase I and II are both complete. Why not market this in Asia right NOW as they dont require Phase III?

----------


## KO1

It would suck to get your hair back in your 70s. Once you cross 50, there is no point with hair. I wouldn't mind being bald at all over 50, I think it looks weirder for older men to have a lot of hair.

So even if you get your hair back...you need to avoid the mental and emotional damage that comes with hair loss.

----------


## x4342

> Its all relative so using the past as something to be happy about is redundant. It doesn't help the situation and you're still going to get screwed by society's shallowness.


 
Oh, I agree that it's all relative.  I generally find it annoying when someone always tries to point to worse situation.

"You should be grateful you are only missing one arm, when you could be missing two arms!"

"You should be grateful you are only missing two arms, when you could be missing two arms and a leg!"

"You should be grateful you are only missing two arms and a leg when you could be missing both arms and both legs!"

etc..
I still think a bit of perspective helps, but I agree that ultimately it is what it is, and it still sucks.

----------


## x4342

> It would suck to get your hair back in your 70s. Once you cross 50, there is no point with hair. I wouldn't mind being bald at all over 50, I think it looks weirder for older men to have a lot of hair.
> 
> So even if you get your hair back...you need to avoid the mental and emotional damage that comes with hair loss.


 
Well,  i don't agree with that.  I think it depends on how well you take care of the rest of yourself and where the rest of your looks are at.  I highly doubt Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise would feel that way. 

What I do agree with is that as you get older it's less and likely to matter.  Hair loss bothers people because it essentially accelerates their loss of attractiveness and aging.  At some point in life everything falls apart.  Technology is slowing aging, but nobody expects to be in their prime when they are 70.  When a 25 year old guy goes bald it's devastating because it has the effect of making him go from "prime" to "obviously past his prime" far too quickly.  There are no 80 year old men saying "man, I am just as good looking as ever except for my hair.  If only I had my perfect hair, I'd still be a 10." 

So, yeah, there's definitely a decreased need for hair as you age, but I'd always rather have perfect hair than anything.  My father doesn't take care of himself at all, but his hair is a non-issue.  Ronald Reagan never had to worry about his hair. Eventually everything fell apart but he always knew that his hair was never dragging him down.

----------


## Vox

> I think it looks weirder for older men to have a lot of hair.


 I have seen one or two old men (let's say 70+) with much hair, white of course. And when I say "much hair" I mean not only density but also juvenile hairline, like 16 years old. It was pretty clear in my eyes that it was natural, but also really weird because we are not used (or trained if you wish) to such sight.

----------


## Vox

> Well,  i don't agree with that.  I think it depends on how well you take care of the rest of yourself and where the rest of your looks are at.


 Well, I am the living example among the forum members for this. Despite my age (around 45) and baldness stage (NW7), I still have very juvenile looks - nearly perfect skin condition and slender body. It is in fact embarrassing: I was told this year that under my hat I look like a graduate student! Obviously I am among the unfortunate guys that started balding during the 80's very early in their life, when there was nothing to fight back this curse.

So yes, give me my hair back even when I hit 50, and I will be very happy.

----------


## x4342

> Well, I am the living example among the forum members for this. Despite my age (around 45) and baldness stage (NW7), I still have very juvenile looks - nearly perfect skin condition and slender body. It is in fact embarrassing: I was told this year that under my hat I look like a graduate student! Obviously I am among the unfortunate guys that started balding during the 80's very early in their life, when there was nothing to fight back this curse.
> 
> So yes, give me my hair back even when I hit 50, and I will be very happy.


 Yes, I understand and I agree.  Hair loss is a net negative.  By itself it doesn't guarantee anything but there's no reason to not want it.  It's like money.  Money doesn't guarantee happiness but there's really no good argument for not wanting to be rich other than sour grapes arguments.  A rich man can live like a poor man if he wants but a poor man can never live like a rich man.  
A man with a full head of hair can shave his head slick bald.  He can even shave the horseshoe pattern if he wants!  
Some people aren't very attractive.  Having hair probably isn't going to help them at any age.  That doesn't change the fact that it's always better to have hair because it simply eliminates the issue.
I'd rather be a poor 20 year old man than a rich 80 year old.  But obviously I'd rather be a rich 20 year old than a poor 20 year old and a rich 80 year old than a poor 80 year old.  
   I'd rather be Jason Statham than Michael Moore.  You can be bald/balding and very popular with the ladies.  It doesn't change the fact that I would rather be Jason Statham with a full head of hair than current Jason Statham.

The issue is simply making it a non-issue!
When I was 22 I was busy and stressed.  I was studying during the day and working at night.  I also had a full head of hair.  Did I obsess over it and spend hours combing it?  No, I just never thought about it.  It was a non-issue.  That's where I want to be again.  Whether I'm 21 or 60 I don't want to think about my hair.  Obviously, like money, you enjoy it more when you are younger but it's always better to simply not have to deal with the issue.

----------


## KO1

Meh. If I'm 70+ and my biggest concern is MPB....I will be happy. At some point you need to accept that your looks will fade. And presumably I won't be trying to bang 20 yo girls....though it would be nice lol.

----------


## UK_

Wtf is everyone talking about now?

When are they going to upload the God damn show where Spencer talks about Aderans' "phone call"?

Fat chance of getting a kickstarter up & running.

I tried that for Histogen and got practically ignored by everyone.

Useless.

----------


## Pentarou

> Wtf is everyone talking about now?
> 
> When are they going to upload the God damn show where Spencer talks about Aderans' "phone call"?
> 
> Fat chance of getting a kickstarter up & running.
> 
> I tried that for Histogen and got practically ignored by everyone.
> 
> Useless.


 Dead depressing that the patents for ARI's Ji Gami will be locked away in some vault, figuratively speaking, never to see the light of day. Makes me concerned for what will be the eventual fate of Histogen, Replicel, etc...  :Frown:

----------


## Thinning87

> Dead depressing that the patents for ARI's Ji Gami will be locked away in some vault, figuratively speaking, never to see the light of day. Makes me concerned for what will be the eventual fate of Histogen, Replicel, etc...


 Pentarau your constant pessimism and self pity make you too much of a f.aggot anyways, all the hair in the world wouldn't help you, you'll always be this way. You don't deserve to be cured.

----------


## KO1

> Pentarau your constant pessimism and self pity make you too much of a f.aggot anyways, all the hair in the world wouldn't help you, you'll always be this way. You don't deserve to be cured.


 Meh, let's be serious, we're all depressed to some extent.

----------


## Thinning87

> Meh, let's be serious, we're all depressed to some extent.


 yeah but there's no need to act like a f.aggot all the time

----------


## Pentarou

> Pentarau your constant pessimism and self pity make you too much of a f.aggot anyways, all the hair in the world wouldn't help you, you'll always be this way. You don't deserve to be cured.


 LOL, thanks bro, that cheered me up no end.  :Smile:  I should really get a custom t-shirt printed saying "Too much of a f.aggot, I don't deserve to be cured". With a whimsical blue penguin on it.

----------


## hellouser

> I should really get a custom t-shirt printed saying "Too much of a f.aggot, I don't deserve to be cured". With a whimsical blue penguin on it.


 Can I get one in a size medium? Thanks.

----------


## UK_

> LOL, thanks bro, that cheered me up no end.  I should really get a custom t-shirt printed saying "Too much of a f.aggot, I don't deserve to be cured". With a whimsical blue penguin on it.


 I'll take a medium too, and possibly a cap to cover up my NW.

----------


## KO1

I need a Large, and I'll order a brown paper bag to cover my head.

----------


## hellouser

Can this thread's title be renamed to 'Terrible News -- I just....'

----------


## UK_

Please God can some company buy ARI and continue research into Phase III?

----------


## UK_

> Can this thread's title be renamed to 'Terrible News -- I just....'


 Hey Hellouser - KaneShop is such a nightmare to order off dont you think?  Why doesnt he just use Paypal?  Did you do a bank transfer to pay for your RU?

----------


## hellouser

> Hey Hellouser - KaneShop is such a nightmare to order off dont you think?  Why doesnt he just use Paypal?  Did you do a bank transfer to pay for your RU?


 I've never purchased from Kane... I might soon though.

----------


## UK_

> I've never purchased from Kane... I might soon though.


 Where do you get your RU from?  Im after the pure powder form - I looked at Ontario chemicals but there's no purchase function just a search engine for different chems.

----------


## hellouser

> Where do you get your RU from?  Im after the pure powder form - I looked at Ontario chemicals but there's no purchase function just a search engine for different chems.


 I don't trust OC, Kane has a much better reputation.

----------


## KO1

> I don't trust OC, Kane has a much better reputation.


 Where do you currently order from?

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

Can you guys please keep this on topic; I hate checking this thread for good news, only to hear guys talk about RU - which imo is a pain in the ass if you have a lifestyle which requires you to travel.

----------


## UK_

> Can you guys please keep this on topic; I hate checking this thread for good news, only to hear guys talk about RU - which imo is a pain in the ass if you have a lifestyle which requires you to travel.


 Lol every thread on here ends up being a conversation about RU.

----------


## UK Boy

So have Aderans officially announced that they've thrown in the towel now or what? People seem to be talking on the other thread as if they have but I haven't seen it actually stated anywhere.

----------


## Breaking Bald

Yes Spencer spoke to Washenik and the new board has decided to cut their funding, so they are on halt unless they can get funding elsewhere. It was on the most recent show which hasn't been uploaded yet.

----------


## Breaking Bald

> Lol every thread on here ends up being a conversation about RU.


 Or fin...

----------


## Artista

Hi* BreakingBald,* 
Do we know why Aderans had lost the original fundings needed? Based on their earlier findings Aderan's studies showed them to be on a very good path.
Could it be that the loss of funding has nothing to do with the science?

----------


## Breaking Bald

> Hi* BreakingBald,* 
> Do we know why Aderans had lost the original fundings needed? Based on their earlier findings Aderan's studies showed them to be on a very good path.
> Could it be that the loss of funding has nothing to do with the science?


 Not too sure Arista and I don't think Spencer was very sure either if I recall. I know it makes no sense really considering that they were getting results.

----------


## Artista

Ok thanks Breaking' I had just uploaded The latest live show. I will give it a listen this evening.

----------


## Thinning87

> LOL, thanks bro, that cheered me up no end.  I should really get a custom t-shirt printed saying "Too much of a f.aggot, I don't deserve to be cured". With a whimsical blue penguin on it.


 Yeah it would suit most people in here perfectly. Follica announces the stuff they announced and not only do you argue they will go nowhere, but you assert ARI is closing down because "Big Pharma doesn't want a cure" - who gives a rat's ass about Aderans and their "optimized hair transplants"!

When they find the cure, you should get a custom shirt saying "I was too much of a f.aggot and instead of doing something about myself I wrote 25 messages per minute on a hair loss forum to convince everyone in there that we were all doomed so I would get other people to pity themselves with me so I could feel better about my self knowing others were in the same boat".

----------


## Breaking Bald

> Ok thanks Breaking' I had just uploaded The latest live show. I will give it a listen this evening.


 You uploaded the show? You're not a mod are you? The new US still hasn't been uploaded.

----------


## Pentarou

> Yeah it would suit most people in here perfectly. Follica announces the stuff they announced and not only do you argue they will go nowhere, but you assert ARI is closing down because "Big Pharma doesn't want a cure" - who gives a rat's ass about Aderans and their "optimized hair transplants"!
> 
> When they find the cure, you should get a custom shirt saying "I was too much of a f.aggot and instead of doing something about myself I wrote 25 messages per minute on a hair loss forum to convince everyone in there that we were all doomed so I would get other people to pity themselves with me so I could feel better about my self knowing others were in the same boat".


  :Smile:

----------


## Desmond84

Hey guys,

Heres the segment on liquidation of Aderans Research Institute if you missed the show:

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Hey guys,
> 
> Heres the segment on liquidation of Aderans Research Institute if you missed the show:


 To be honest, ARI had 10 years to produce a product, what did they expect?

Ken is just being positive, but the fact that he didn't come on - shows that he knows its over.

----------


## garethbale

haha

that guy sounds like he's about to jump off a cliff.  Someone better put him on suicide watch for the next few days!

----------


## Kiwi

> To be honest, ARI had 10 years to produce a product, what did they expect?
> 
> Ken is just being positive, but the fact that he didn't come on - shows that he knows its over.


 Results is what they expected... The thing is its better than Fin! It exists you just can't sell it and ****ing American FDA dragged its heals until this product died.

Assuming its dead.

----------


## k3nk3n

Hey guys I'm not sure if this has been asked and answered before but since Aderans has done phase 1 and 2, couldn't they release this product in Asia right away? 

And also, did Aderans release their phase 2 results? If the were results were good it wouldn't be hard to get fundings, since spencer has mentioned on the show that they don't need a hell lot to continue the project.

----------


## hellouser

Aderan's not funding ARI because they dont see any return on their investment? Bullshit.

Its more than likely that it would cannibalize their sales of their wigs and surgical hair treatments. Of course from a board of dickhead business men perspective they would NEVER  allow that.

----------


## Pentarou

> Results is what they expected... The thing is its better than Fin! It exists you just can't sell it and ****ing American FDA dragged its heals until this product died.
> 
> Assuming its dead.


 The crushing this is, that unlike RU 58841, which also had the plug pulled before it went to phase 3/was released, we can't exactly get some labs to rustle up some Ji Gami on the grey market.

----------


## Pentarou

> Hey guys I'm not sure if this has been asked and answered before but since Aderans has done phase 1 and 2, couldn't they release this product in Asia right away?


 IIRC it's a myth that Asian countries don't need a phase 3, I think the truth is that they require a shorter phase 3 than required by the FDA, but don't quote me on that.

----------


## hellouser

> IIRC it's a myth that Asian countries don't need a phase 3, I think the truth is that they require a shorter phase 3 than required by the FDA, but don't quote me on that.


 AFAIK its not a myth as Replicel is targeting a 2015 release after Phase II and Histogen is targeting a 2015-16 release after Phase IIb, both in Asia.

However, Aderans being released was going through FDA approvals and not the approvals of any asian health ministries. Only way that Aderans Phase II could be approved in an asian country was if that countries health ministry recognized FDA trials and approvals without any hoops to jump through.

----------


## k3nk3n

> AFAIK its not a myth as Replicel is targeting a 2015 release after Phase II and Histogen is targeting a 2015-16 release after Phase IIb, both in Asia.
> 
> However, Aderans being released was going through FDA approvals and not the approvals of any asian health ministries. Only way that Aderans Phase II could be approved in an asian country was if that countries health ministry recognized FDA trials and approvals without any hoops to jump through.


 But i guess if Aderans could release the ARI in Asia, they would have done it already.

----------


## hellouser

> But i guess if Aderans could release the ARI in Asia, they would have done it already.


 No, they basically JUST finished Phase II. There were never any plans for them to release in Asia in 2014 (those were their initial plans on a release date, and that was for USA).

----------


## hellouser

It needs to be said though, that if Aderan's didn't see this coming given their abysmal turnaround time, they failed miserably at having a backup plan for funding from another entity.

As an investor, waiting 10+ years with another clinical trial remaining and the most costly would piss me off. But if that meant at the expense of wigs and surgical procedures which their stem cell treatment could provide, hell no would those businessmen assholes ever allow that. They don't give a shit about balding men, they have ZERO empathy for anyone, they care about one thing only; DOLLARS.

----------


## Kiwi

> The crushing this is, that unlike RU 58841, which also had the plug pulled before it went to phase 3/was released, we can't exactly get some labs to rustle up some Ji Gami on the grey market.


 LOL...

Actually that's exactly why I think they failed. Perhaps it actuàlly costs them too much to make it. It didn't turn out to be consumable...

----------


## UK_

I dont understand why another company doesnt just buy them out and continue on to phase III?

If they're getting results surely this is a company that will sell.

----------


## garethbale

> I dont understand why another company doesnt just buy them out and continue on to phase III?
> 
> If they're getting results surely this is a company that will sell.


 That's what I thought, but Aderans are idiots so I wouldn't be surprised if they just did nothing

----------


## hellouser

> That's what I thought, but Aderans are idiots so I wouldn't be surprised if they just did nothing


 Their own success depends on an investor, I'm sure they're scrambling right now.

----------


## KO1

Hmmm....on this note, keep in mind that Cosmo's Methylene Blue product is garnering interest from big pharma and seems to be their primary "star" drug. (But I could be wrong).

If Big Pharma buys Cosmo with view to getting access to the MB product, given they've shown no interest in MPB, it wouldn't surprise me if they killed CB in the pipeline.


God, I'm such an asshole.

----------


## Pentarou

> Hmmm....on this note, keep in mind that Cosmo's Methylene Blue product is garnering interest from big pharma and seems to be their primary "star" drug. (But I could be wrong).
> 
> If Big Pharma buys Cosmo with view to getting access to the MB product, given they've shown no interest in MPB, it wouldn't surprise me if they killed CB in the pipeline.
> 
> 
> God, I'm such an asshole.


 Being honest about what could happen to derail/bury a viable treatment before it 'makes it' doesn't make you or anyone an asshole. I wish more people here took on board that we're guaranteed that none of these treatments will ever be released. Unfortunately.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Being honest about what could happen to derail/bury a viable treatment before it 'makes it' doesn't make you or anyone an asshole. I wish more people here took on board that we're guaranteed that none of these treatments will ever be released. Unfortunately.


 then what are you doing here? just being a troll? if you know none of these products are ever going to be released then why don't you get off here and get on with your life instead of sitting on here trying to make everyone feel sad and pathetic like you?

----------


## garethbale

> Being honest about what could happen to derail/bury a viable treatment before it 'makes it' doesn't make you or anyone an asshole. I wish more people here took on board that we're guaranteed that none of these treatments will ever be released. Unfortunately.


 Guaranteed how exactly?

----------


## UK_

> That's what I thought, but Aderans are idiots so I wouldn't be surprised if they just did nothing


 Or... maybe he was _*facepalm*_ not telling the complete story when he said "we're having good results".

Man this is really ****ed up, Shiesedo just invested a massive amount into Replicel, I dont see why the same cant happen with Aderans???  They're even closer to market than Replicel!

It just looks like no progress has been made and we're back to 2007.

----------


## UK_

I will be immensely surprised if a company doesnt buy out Aderans.

I mean if Shisedo can spend millions on Replicel and they have only just finished Phase I, then I'm sure a company will be willing to buy Aderans who is heading into Phase III with two successful trials backing them and a working protocol.

Why on earth does MILLIONS get spend on worthless make-up products for women and when the cure for baldness is in question nobody seems to give a ****.

----------


## hiilikeyourbeard

the cure for baldness must be really really really hard to find

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I will be immensely surprised if a company doesnt buy out Aderans.
> 
> I mean if Shisedo can spend millions on Replicel and they have only just finished Phase I, then I'm sure a company will be willing to buy Aderans who is heading into Phase III with two successful trials backing them and a working protocol.
> 
> Why on earth does MILLIONS get spend on worthless make-up products for women and when the cure for baldness is in question nobody seems to give a ****.


 You guys have to look at it this way; why would Aderans back out of ARI if they had a product that could potentially make billions.
There is something fishy going on.

I bet the chances are , they did grow hair, but it was of poor quality.

----------


## hellouser

> Why on earth does MILLIONS get spend on worthless make-up products for women and when the cure for baldness is in question nobody seems to give a ****.


 Because nobody gives a FVCK about mens health!

----------


## garethbale

> You guys have to look at it this way; why would Aderans back out of ARI if they had a product that could potentially make billions.
> There is something fishy going on.
> 
> I bet the chances are , they did grow hair, but it was of poor quality.


 Yeah probably just a crap product.

Looking at their results they were very average (like Replicel's so far)

If it wasn't yielding results then probably wasn't worth continuing and arguably not a huge loss.

That said though, hopefully someone can but them out and carry the work on

----------


## UK_

> You guys have to look at it this way; why would Aderans back out of ARI if they had a product that could potentially make billions.
> There is something fishy going on.
> 
> I bet the chances are , they did grow hair, but it was of poor quality.


 Yup, but they did quote good percentages for terminal hair...

----------


## hellouser

> Yeah probably just a crap product.
> 
> Looking at their results they were very average (like Replicel's so far)
> 
> If it wasn't yielding results then probably wasn't worth continuing and arguably not a huge loss.
> 
> That said though, hopefully someone can but them out and carry the work on


 At the stage we're in and the treatments currently available, Aderans would have been a huge boost regardless.

----------


## Pentarou

> Or... maybe he was _*facepalm*_ not telling the complete story when he said "we're having good results".
> 
> Man this is really ****ed up, Shiesedo just invested a massive amount into Replicel, I dont see why the same cant happen with Aderans???  They're even closer to market than Replicel!


 Maybe someone (Shiesedo?) will buy the rights to ARI and combine the process with Replicel? I mean, they essentially work in a very similar fashion to each other. Wishful thinking and groundless speculation, yes, but not impossible.

I very much hope that Spencer's reassurances that it wouldn't require a huge investment to get the ARI process through phase III turn out to be correct.

----------


## UK_

> At the stage we're in and the treatments currently available, Aderans would have been a huge boost regardless.


 Hellouser, have you considered Fluridil + RU + CB + MINOX?  This is what I'm looking at as I'm not a great fan of gyno oh I mean Fin.

----------


## UK_

> Maybe someone (Shiesedo?) will buy the rights to ARI and combine the process with Replicel? I mean, they essentially work in a very similar fashion to each other. Wishful thinking and groundless speculation, yes, but not impossible.
> 
> I very much hope that Spencer's reassurances that it wouldn't require a huge investment to get the ARI process through phase III turn out to be correct.


 I think TBT should buy the rights to Aderans, I'd invest &#163;1000 if this website was backing ARI  :Big Grin:

----------


## idontwant2bebalding

A wig company decided that they were more comfortable with the ROI and business model of Bosely than with a research team (ARI). Most likely has zero to do with the state of research. My question is, does Aderans have rights to the research? That is what could really hold things up. Does Aderans own the rights to the research that ARI has done and would like to continue to do?  :Confused:

----------


## mlao

It's a good question over who actually owns the research. i was thinking however that if they do bring a product to market at least it won't be offered exclusively thru Bosley.

----------


## idontwant2bebalding

I think we can assume that Aderans, at the least, owns the lab and equipment (hence the fire sale). What about the intellectual property?

----------


## Desmond84

> Hey guys,
> 
> Heres the segment on liquidation of Aderans Research Institute if you missed the show:


 You know what, every time I listen to this I actually fear more sorry for Joe than everyone else (myself included)! He's so sad about the news, it's heart breaking  :Frown: 

A big shout out to Joe for expressing exactly how we all felt about the news! I hope Aderans Board of Director watch this video with a great burden of guilt

----------


## Desmond84

> Hmmm....on this note, keep in mind that Cosmo's Methylene Blue product is garnering interest from big pharma and seems to be their primary "star" drug. (But I could be wrong).
> 
> If Big Pharma buys Cosmo with view to getting access to the MB product, given they've shown no interest in MPB, it wouldn't surprise me if they killed CB in the pipeline.
> 
> 
> God, I'm such an asshole.


 Uh man! Trusting our luck, this is exactly what will happen!

----------


## hiilikeyourbeard

don't say that, guys!!

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Uh man! Trusting our luck, this is exactly what will happen!


 come on guys, no need to get down. We have many new products in the pipeline and one of them is going to make it out in the next 3-5 years..

let's focus on the good news from Histogen instead of Aderans bad news, we all knew Aderans didn't have anything great anyway.

----------


## Desmond84

> come on guys, no need to get down. We have many new products in the pipeline and one of them is going to make it out in the next 3-5 years..
> 
> let's focus on the good news from Histogen instead of Aderans bad news, we all knew Aderans didn't have anything great anyway.


 Very true! Let's put the past behind us...it's a new day anyways

----------


## x4342

> You know what, *every time I listen to this I actually fear more sorry for Joe than everyone else* (myself included)! He's so sad about the news, it's heart breaking 
> 
> A big shout out to Joe for expressing exactly how we all felt about the news! I hope Aderans Board of Director watch this video with a great burden of guilt


 
Yeah, I totally agree.  Spencer has said something like "there's a bit of Joe in all of us."  He's a bit off, but he epitomizes the sufferer in all of us.  He's a lot older and you can really feel his desperation.

----------


## hiilikeyourbeard

I love joe. I truly feel with him, he's so honest about his suffering

----------


## hellouser

> Very true! Let's put the past behind us...it's a new day anyways


 How about trying to support the research and get ARI the funding they need?

Maybe we can try and think of ways to persuade potential investors? For example (and this is a long shot) Elon Musk seems to love dabbling with various projects, from SpaceX, to electric cars, to that bullet train thing he's just revealed. Dude had a hair transplant himself not too long ago... the guy is loaded with money, so forking out a bit of cash to ARI to fund a project which could benefit himself and make a return for him in dollars isn't far fetched.

----------


## Desmond84

OMG he did too! I never knew him before his HT <MIND BLOWN>

I love Elon and to tell you the truth knowing his track record, he might even get the ball rolling with Tsuji Lab  :Smile: 

That would be the story of century!

----------


## hellouser

> OMG he did too! I never knew him before his HT <MIND BLOWN>
> 
> I love Elon and to tell you the truth knowing his track record, he might even get the ball rolling with Tsuji Lab 
> 
> That would be the story of century!


 Well I doubt he'd go so far, I mean he's basically got celebrity status. I supported ATA (american tinnitus association) a while back and made some suggestions about getting celebs to support the cause, but the PR chick replied to me and said that they have done this, most noticeably William Shatner. He's almost committed suicide because of it. I suffer from tinnitus as well so I know where he's coming from.

The problem is that public figures dont want to make them selves look 'weaker' in the spotlight. So whoever funds this, will need to be very, VERY discrete about it... assuming its someone of popularity.

Elon Musk would be awesome as he's a visionary (far more than fvcking steve jobs who just stole ideas, branded them as his own and slapped a high price tag on it).

----------


## Desmond84

I feel your pain bro.

Elon Musk would definitely point things in the right direction! I've finally realised that AGA R&D is in complete disarray with very few researchers actually involved in it! Its amazing when you see the same names coming up in almost every single published AGA journal!

And once someone comes up with an idea...no one wants to give it the light of day!

Funding AGA would be pocket change for Elon Musk! Imagine if he ever did decide to join the fight...

I think we have to write him a very emotional letter asking him to give us some support and highlighting some of the recent breakthroughs that will literally cure AGA...Lauster & Tsuji for example

----------


## hellouser

> I feel your pain bro.
> 
> Elon Musk would definitely point things in the right direction! I've finally realised that AGA R&D is in complete disarray with very few researchers actually involved in it! Its amazing when you see the same names coming up in almost every single published AGA journal!
> 
> And once someone comes up with an idea...no one wants to give it the light of day!
> 
> Funding AGA would be pocket change for Elon Musk! Imagine if he ever did decide to join the fight...
> 
> I think we have to write him a very emotional letter asking him to give us some support and highlighting some of the recent breakthroughs that will literally cure AGA...Lauster & Tsuji for example


 I'd take the initiative to reach out to another level;

Massive online campaign. Try to make it witty and funny and make it go viral. Don't only focus on men, and not only on women that are losing hair, but also target women who prefer men WITH hair as it benefits them having an aesthetically pleasing partner.

Do that and the whole initiative brings a level of credibility. I'd love to shoot a video that pokes fun at balding but with the intent of finding a cure. Don't make it all sappy and depressing like cancer or multiple sclerosis research projects. Just look at 'Movember' for mens prostate cancer; fun, engaging and massively viral. That campaign spread like wildfire because of its positive nature.

I know its weird for me to support the positive outlook via a campaign like this given my harsh realistic approach to things, but its clear as mud what works with convincing the public (at least to me). But this is all part of my experiences within my field (marketing and advertising).

----------


## Desmond84

That sounds really cool actually! Remember Kony2012! One single positive video campaign and the world was ready to reign down on Kony! 

It could be done...but we have to do it carefully with tactful skillz...this is where you come into play Hellouser.

Remember anything is possible! Its such about how badly you want it...right?  :Smile:

----------


## hellouser

> That sounds really cool actually! Remember Kony2012!
> 
> One single positive video campaign and the world was ready to reign down on Kony! It could be done...but we have to do it carefully with tactful skillz...this is where you come into play Hellouser.
> 
> Remember anything is possible! Its such about how badly do you want it...right?


 Yes, exactly.

Producing a video of this calibre will require some work... you'll need actors, cameraman and someone who can edit and design the end result (I can do the digital part no problem, im not going on camera though, my hairloss is more or less NW3 with some thinning but noone can notice that, its just my hairline). Then you gotta find guys that are willing to BE in the video, to BE in the spotlight and then theres us.... the guys that want to make this popular, but that also requires our identity to be revealed (using facebook, twitter, etc to support the cause).

Of course, you can pitch the campaign to various places, like The Bald Truth, the hair conference, etc. but also local newspapers and other media channels. That requires a massive group effort. Before thats even done, it needs to be planned out, revised, revised, revised, revised, executed, revised again and then rolled out after being ironed so much that its perfect and ready for the big stage. No cutting corners.

----------


## Desmond84

Here's an idea!

We should make a thread on MPB graphic arts!

Ppl can make posters and we can use it I suppose! There's a lot of untapped talent on this forum...believe me

----------


## Desmond84

> Yes, exactly.
> 
> Producing a video of this calibre will require some work... you'll need actors, cameraman and someone who can edit and design the end result (I can do the digital part no problem, im not going on camera though, my hairloss is more or less NW3 with some thinning but noone can notice that, its just my hairline). Then you gotta find guys that are willing to BE in the video, to BE in the spotlight and then theres us.... the guys that want to make this popular, but that also requires our identity to be revealed (using facebook, twitter, etc to support the cause).
> 
> Of course, you can pitch the campaign to various places, like The Bald Truth, the hair conference, etc. but also local newspapers and other media channels. That requires a massive group effort. Before thats even done, it needs to be planned out, revised, revised, revised, revised, executed, revised again and then rolled out after being ironed so much that its perfect and ready for the big stage. No cutting corners.


 There are so many pages on facebook! CrazyVideos, ViralVideos, PartyVideos, etc etc...

If its as awesome as we think, you can send the link to them and they'll spread it like wildfire all over facebook and twitter! Without anyone having  to disclose their identities...ppl will just share it as an awesome video (no strings attached) lol

----------


## hellouser

> Here's an idea!
> 
> We should make a thread on MPB graphic arts!
> 
> Ppl can make posters and we can use it I suppose! There's a lot of untapped talent on this forum...believe me


 Its not just this forum though either! There's many hair loss forums, we could even make it a cross-forum effort, get the artists to come up with ideas for a poster, logo/icon, while others can pitch in help for a cool slogan.

Some members here are pretty crafty, i still love the username 'balding like baldwin'. How funny would that be to use Alec Baldwin as the face of a campaign, eventhough he's not balding (or maybe he is?) and run it as a joke... kind of like the song 'Duck Sauce - Barbra Streisand' (link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu_zwdmz0hE)

----------


## Desmond84

> Its not just this forum though either! There's many hair loss forums, we could even make it a cross-forum effort, get the artists to come up with ideas for a poster, logo/icon, while others can pitch in help for a cool slogan.
> 
> Some members here are pretty crafty, i still love the username 'balding like baldwin'


 or "Breaking Bald"  :Big Grin:  LOL

Dude we can do this! Hellouser start a forum thread on this (in Cutting Edge) when you get the chance ...you'll be far better at elaborating on what is required and expected! 

It can be done man! If KONY guys could pull it off so can we

----------


## Desmond84

> How funny would that be to use Alec Baldwin as the face of a campaign, eventhough he's not balding (or maybe he is?) and run it as a joke... kind of like the song 'Duck Sauce - Barbra Streisand' (link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu_zwdmz0hE)


 Bahahahahhaah I think we're done!  :Big Grin:

----------


## hellouser

> Bahahahahhaah I think we're done!


 I think I'll make a thread later on this week, gonna gather my thoughts as to how it should be done.

I could put some money towards buying a domain name, I've already got hosting and we could put up a simple wordpress website and fill it with information, we could even buy a template for about $50, for example: http://www.organicthemes.com/themes/

----------


## hiilikeyourbeard

I have a friend who is honestly the best at editing and producing film I have ever seen. I could talk to him about maybe helping edit... here's something he's done just messing around http://youtu.be/8wy9Y_-kt-Y

----------


## hellouser

> I have a friend who is honestly the best at editing and producing film I have ever seen. I could talk to him about maybe helping edit... here's something he's done just messing around http://youtu.be/8wy9Y_-kt-Y


 AWESOME. Camera work is fantastic, very very smooth and you can tell they know what theyre doing since theres no camera shake at all in the airplane.

----------


## Vox

> Don't only focus on men, and not only on women that are losing hair, but also target women who prefer men WITH hair as it benefits them having an aesthetically pleasing partner.


 If you are going to do anything like this, please make a favor all the _bald community_ and don't talk about _only_ the aesthetic issue. Talk also about the singular form of disability induced by the lack of natural protection of the head. People need to understand that if you don't have hair on your head, your life becomes significantly more complicated, since you need to continuously take protection measures: drizzle, rain, cold, snow means you will wear a hat; sun means you will perhaps wear a hat; but a bald scalp perspires too much when it is hot, torrents of sweat on your face, so you will rather not wear one, but then you risk a sunburn on the top of the head and the subsequent changes in the skin. Scratches? Yes, them too, they appear very fast, even under a hat. Bald guys are in unusual physical disadvantage in front of the normal guys, before considering anything aesthetics-related.

We so often see this problem downgraded to an aesthetic one, which is only half of the story. I believe this makes part of the fact that no one cares and there is so little motivation to solve it. People need to realize that this causes problems in everyday life, because it leaves the skin of your head exposed. This is huge by itself. Of course this is of concern for a fraction only of bald/balding men (say beyond NW4-5), but I believe that it needs to finally be pointed out. Clearly and loudly.

----------


## hellouser

> If you are going to do anything like this, please make a favor all the _bald community_ and don't talk about _only_ the aesthetic issue. Talk also about the singular form of disability induced by the lack of natural protection of the head. People need to understand that if you don't have hair on your head, your life becomes significantly more complicated, since you need to continuously take protection measures: drizzle, rain, cold, snow means you will wear a hat; sun means you will perhaps wear a hat; but a bald scalp perspires too much when it is hot, torrents of sweat on your face, so you will rather not wear one, but then you risk a sunburn on the top of the head and the subsequent changes in the skin. Scratches? Yes, them too, they appear very fast, even under a hat. Bald guys are in unusual physical disadvantage in front of the normal guys, before considering anything aesthetics-related.
> 
> We so often see this problem downgraded to an aesthetic one, which is only half of the story. I believe this makes part of the fact that no one cares and there is so little motivation to solve it. People need to realize that this causes problems in everyday life, because it leaves the skin of your head exposed. This is huge by itself. Of course this is of concern for a fraction only of bald/balding men (say beyond NW4-5), but I believe that it needs to finally be pointed out. Clearly and loudly.


 Good points Vox, and I would definitely not only attribute it to aesthetics either as that is only part and parcel of the cause of depression. But aesthetics play a huge part and definitely a significantly larger one in day to day situations. Apart from the women aspect, society also treats us less equally, we're the butt of all jokes, we're seen as older and inferior, etc. The aesthetic issue leads to a greater problem: belonging and acceptance in a community, and that my friend is a basic human need. Watch the movie 'Harold', its about a kid in school who's basicaly a slick bald NW6 and he's basically tossed aside from everyone else. But this happens in adult life as well.

But yes, I fully agree that the physical health aspects are an important one too. I remember back in 2008 when I went to Cuba for a week, I had applied sun screen on my face and came back with a sun burn on my temples. Back then I didnt make anything of my hairline, didn't even realize i was balding. The ignorance on men's part could be addressed to. Oh, and should this happen, you can be sure I'll take a shot at Finasteride, if only to piss off KO1. Enough waiting, enough empty promises, enough of stone age finasteride and its side effects, enough of the media attention whoring from Cotsarelis and his repetitive 'within 5 years' bullshit... time to get something not only completed but rolled out to the masses. Its long overdue. They've sent a man to the moon, cloned a sheep, made processors with millions of transistors, smashed atoms at near light speed... its about time someone grows a fvcking hair follicle... oh wait, Dr. Lauster's already done it... but again, enough of the wait, he's been far too quiet and we've been far too complacent about it. We should be demanding a treatment rather than sitting on our asses and making replies on forums like the one im writing NOW.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Good points Vox, and I would definitely not only attribute it to aesthetics either as that is only part and parcel of the cause of depression. But aesthetics play a huge part and definitely a significantly larger one in day to day situations. Apart from the women aspect, society also treats us less equally, we're the butt of all jokes, we're seen as older and inferior, etc. The aesthetic issue leads to a greater problem: belonging and acceptance in a community, and that my friend is a basic human need. Watch the movie 'Harold', its about a kid in school who's basicaly a slick bald NW6 and he's basically tossed aside from everyone else. But this happens in adult life as well.
> 
> But yes, I fully agree that the physical health aspects are an important one too. I remember back in 2008 when I went to Cuba for a week, I had applied sun screen on my face and came back with a sun burn on my temples. Back then I didnt make anything of my hairline, didn't even realize i was balding. The ignorance on men's part could be addressed to. Oh, and should this happen, you can be sure I'll take a shot at Finasteride, if only to piss off KO1. Enough waiting, enough empty promises, enough of stone age finasteride and its side effects, enough of the media attention whoring from Cotsarelis and his repetitive 'within 5 years' bullshit... time to get something not only completed but rolled out to the masses. Its long overdue. They've sent a man to the moon, cloned a sheep, made processors with millions of transistors, smashed atoms at near light speed... its about time someone grows a fvcking hair follicle... oh wait, Dr. Lauster's already done it... but again, enough of the wait, he's been far too quiet and we've been far too complacent about it. We should be demanding a treatment rather than sitting on our asses and making replies on forums like the one im writing NOW.


 I feel your pain. I am a Norwood 2 with thick hair, but being powerless with knowing how to treat my hairloss safely is annoying me. I am now facing the prospect of seeing my hairline slowly receed as I do not want to take propecia!

Hairloss is always on my mind, I often think about how I would look if I had no recession, as my hairline will than frame my face perfectly. I currently have to do a Jude law style comb forwards to hide my hairline.

I'm also always in fear over further recession. I know for a fact that if I didn't have hairloss, it will be like a weight lifted off my shoulders.

But what can I say guys, life does not owe us anything. The girl, the job , the looks etc It is designed to be unfair. The fittest only survive. If you are born with shit cards, all you can do, is the best with them.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

Some of you guys are also very lucky. I've had to live with facial disfigurement for a large portion of my life. I am 27 now , and my face is finally fixed.

So remember guys, things can always be worse.

----------


## hiilikeyourbeard

we're all in this fight together

----------


## hellouser

> Some of you guys are also very lucky. I've had to live with facial disfigurement for a large portion of my life. I am 27 now , and my face is finally fixed.
> 
> So remember guys, things can always be worse.


 Its all relative though. I've got tinnitus as well, had surgery on my gums last week, my shins feel weird often times, possibly shin splints, etc. on top my hair loss. The other things don't bother me anywhere near as much as my hair. I just want to be socially integrated rather than treated or approached as inferior.

Although tinnitus does worry me, I hope it doesn't get worse.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Its all relative though. I've got tinnitus as well, had surgery on my gums last week, my shins feel weird often times, possibly shin splints, etc. on top my hair loss. The other things don't bother me anywhere near as much as my hair. I just want to be socially integrated rather than treated or approached as inferior.
> 
> Although tinnitus does worry me, I hope it doesn't get worse.


 Baldness for me is a kick in the balls to be honest. After 3 operations on my face, I can't seem to enjoy it with a NW1. The worse thing is I would do something about it if there was something safe out there; histogen would have been perfect for me as I just have slight recession around my temples.

 Feel hard done.

And yes it's relative, I used my case as an example because like hairloss it is around the face region - the first thing people judge. 

I was truly unlucky. 

Other things you can hide. It can be worse lads.

----------


## garethbale

> Baldness for me is a kick in the balls to be honest. After 3 operations on my face, I can't seem to enjoy it with a NW1. The worse thing is I would do something about it if there was something safe out there; histogen would have been perfect for me as I just have slight recession around my temples.
> 
>  Feel hard done.
> 
> And yes it's relative, I used my case as an example because like hairloss it is around the face region - the first thing people judge. 
> 
> I was truly unlucky. 
> 
> Other things you can hide. It can be worse lads.


 Can I ask why you had operations on your face?

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Can I ask why you had operations on your face?


 I needed orthodontic work. In the process it turned out my face was very assymetric/disproportioned; jaw was out of position; chin was recessed, septum in my nose was deviated (crooked nose) and yes my teeth were shit. My face was basically crooked.

It was horrible living like under those conditions, I did manage to get a pretty girlfriend, but it was basically after a lot of hard work chasing her. Annoying - because she would easily give her number out to other guys who did a fraction of the work.

Life for ugly people is terrible. To get the same results, especially with women - you have to work twice as hard, and even then she may dump you quicker then the time you got her.

Hairloss is just a kick in the balls to be honest. Unlike the other shit, this is no easy fix - can't enjoy my new face properly.

----------


## greatjob!

> I needed orthodontic work. In the process it turned out my face was very assymetric/disproportioned; jaw was out of position; chin was recessed, septum in my nose was deviated (crooked nose) and yes my teeth were shit. My face was basically crooked.
> 
> It was horrible living like under those conditions, I did manage to get a pretty girlfriend, but it was basically after a lot of hard work chasing her. Annoying - because she would easily give her number out to other guys who did a fraction of the work.
> 
> Life for ugly people is terrible. To get the same results, especially with women - you have to work twice as hard, and even then she may dump you quicker then the time you got her.
> 
> Hairloss is just a kick in the balls to be honest. Unlike the other shit, this is no easy fix - can't enjoy my new face properly.


 No disrespect man but you put way too much value on looks. And I have seen your hairloss and it is all but non-existent, I don't see how being a NW1 could be a kick in the balls. Honestly when you posted pics of your loss I couldn't believe that you where the same person who posts on here talking about how hairloss had ruined your life, if I saw you in real life I wouldn't even classify you as someone who had lost any hair.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> No disrespect man but you put way too much value on looks. And I have seen your hairloss and it is all but non-existent, I don't see how being a NW1 could be a kick in the balls. Honestly when you posted pics of your loss I couldn't believe that you where the same person who posts on here talking about how hairloss had ruined your life, if I saw you in real life I wouldn't even classify you as someone who had lost any hair.


 Im a NW2 not a NW1.  Dr Ferundi diagnosed me as that.

Yes, I have a lot of hair, but I have a V shape hairline, and for me anyway, I am looking to maintain more than anything. Not being able to maintain without using propecia is why its a kick in the balls.

----------


## garethbale

> Im a NW2 not a NW1.  Dr Ferundi diagnosed me as that.
> 
> Yes, I have a lot of hair, but I have a V shape hairline, and for me anyway, I am looking to maintain more than anything. Not being able to maintain without using propecia is why its a kick in the balls.


 do you have a pic of your hair you could share?

I'm interested to see how far others have receded, as i am a receder

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> do you have a pic of your hair you could share?
> 
> I'm interested to see how far others have receded, as i am a receder


 

temple points going is annoying.

----------


## Pentarou

Kinda looks like my hairline, bro, perhaps better objectively. Never thought it had anything 'wrong' with it, assumed it was my normal hairline but my face and forehead had elongated with age or something stupid like that. Like of was a kick in the balls when I realized I'd lost hair, had physically aged essentially. Really harms your sense of self in a big way.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Kinda looks like my hairline, bro, perhaps better objectively. Never thought it had anything 'wrong' with it, assumed it was my normal hairline but my face and forehead had elongated with age or something stupid like that. Like of was a kick in the balls when I realized I'd lost hair, had physically aged essentially. Really harms your sense of self in a big way.


 I naturally have a long face, but yeah, my face has got longer...I used to wear it up - ross from friends, but now I have to wear bangs  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## garethbale

> temple points going is annoying.


 yours is probably a bit more forward than mine, which i kind of comb forward to hide my loss

are you sure you have MPB though?  It may be natural recession as your hair looks quite strong

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> yours is probably a bit more forward than mine, which i kind of comb forward to hide my loss
> 
> are you sure you have MPB though?  It may be natural recession as your hair looks quite strong


 Thats the problem with mpb, you dont know.

What I do know, that it wasnt always like this.

----------


## UK_

Thats how my hair line used to be, you cant see the thinning in the crown when the hair is long too, but it's there, you can bet your ass it's there, but after a while it starts showing through.

By then it's usually too late to do anything.

----------


## medion1

> temple points going is annoying.


 Jeez....do I have to say it again........

You're not bald, so get the f&*k off the forum you paranoid fool.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Thats how my hair line used to be, you cant see the thinning in the crown when the hair is long too, but it's there, you can bet your ass it's there, but after a while it starts showing through.
> 
> By then it's usually too late to do anything.


 How old are you?

I don't seem to have any crown thinning , even when I cut my hair short I can't see it.

Normally that area feels thinner if you are thinning.

----------


## Jcm800

> How old are you?
> 
> I don't seem to have any crown thinning , even when I cut my hair short I can't see it.
> 
> Normally that area feels thinner if you are thinning.


 Perhaps you don't see it because it's not there in the first place.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Perhaps you don't see it because it's not there in the first place.


 Mate I just hate hairloss. 

If I knew for sure I won't go significantly bald until my 40s I won't be on here .

The lack of safe treatments for maintainence is pissing me off.

I know that I have a good set of hair right now.

----------


## UK_

> How old are you?
> 
> I don't seem to have any crown thinning , even when I cut my hair short I can't see it.
> 
> Normally that area feels thinner if you are thinning.


 When you say short - do you mean buzz to a grade 2 or lower?

----------


## Jcm800

UK_ have you started fin again yet dude?

----------


## Jcm800

> Mate I just hate hairloss. 
> 
> If I knew for sure I won't go significantly bald until my 40s I won't be on here .
> 
> The lack of safe treatments for maintainence is pissing me off.
> 
> I know that I have a good set of hair right now.


 Yeah i hear you, i used to have even thicker hair than yours, one things for sure - it'll fall out eventually, so yeah it's an arse that even maintenance is limited or fraught with risks of crappy sides.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Yeah i hear you, i used to have even thicker hair than yours, one things for sure - it'll fall out eventually, so yeah it's an arse that even maintenance is limited or fraught with risks of crappy sides.


 So I don't just have a mature hairline?

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> When you say short - do you mean buzz to a grade 2 or lower?


 Basically a very short ceaser haircut

----------


## Jcm800

> So I don't just have a mature hairline?


 
I dont know, just keep an eye on certain hairs at the corners, I can remember seeing certain ones vanish years ago at the onset, they eventually gave up the fight and never returned, I had masses of hair and didn't think anything of it at the time. 

Do you even think you're losing/thinning then?  If not, you may be lucky and keep it for a long time yet. But if you've seen gradual loss, you don't need me to tell you it's likely to get worse over time.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I dont know, just keep an eye on certain hairs at the corners, I can remember seeing certain ones vanish years ago at the onset, they eventually gave up the fight and never returned, I had masses of hair and didn't think anything of it at the time. 
> 
> Do you even thunk you're losing/thinning then?  If not, you may be lucky and keep it for a long time yet. But if you've seen gradual loss, you don't need me to tell you it's likely to get worse over time.


 I first noticed my loss in 2009, it went back in a spurt between 09/11 and now for the past 2 years it's been stable.

I am not on any treatments.

I am 27 now

Older bro (1 year older) has the same hairloss pattern, he isn't thinning.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I dont know, just keep an eye on certain hairs at the corners, I can remember seeing certain ones vanish years ago at the onset, they eventually gave up the fight and never returned, I had masses of hair and didn't think anything of it at the time. 
> 
> Do you even think you're losing/thinning then?  If not, you may be lucky and keep it for a long time yet. But if you've seen gradual loss, you don't need me to tell you it's likely to get worse over time.


 

This is the top of my head under very bright lighting.

Sigh - this is why Aderans has pissed me off! 

Guys like me, who are just looking to maintain, are forced to live in fear.

----------


## clandestine

Uhgg fukc you yeahyeahyeah and your hair.

Go live life or something.

----------


## garethbale

> Uhgg fukc you yeahyeahyeah and your hair.
> 
> Go live life or something.


 bit unnecessary

but i don't think you should be worrying.  You have so much hair.  Even I have quite a lot of hair and often wonder why i spend time on this site.  You have a lot of hair and you can style it...

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> bit unnecessary
> 
> but i don't think you should be worrying.  You have so much hair.  Even I have quite a lot of hair and often wonder why i spend time on this site.  You have a lot of hair and you can style it...


 To be honest mate, my hairline means that I can only wear bangs. Which does not suit me that much. Ross gellar hair style is what always did.

When it is windy/raining its a nightmare to keep my hairstyle in place.

I'm pretty frustrated because I would happily restore my hairline (straighten it out) if there was a decent product on the market that maintains. I have high hopes for histogen and only really check this section of the site.

It's been 10+ years since propecia came out. I can't believe there is nothing better out yet.

Edit:

Last night when I was out, I heard my friends make jokes towards bald people. It was terrible hearing it.

----------


## clandestine

> bit unnecessary
> 
> but i don't think you should be worrying.  You have so much hair.  Even I have quite a lot of hair and often wonder why i spend time on this site.  You have a lot of hair and you can style it...


 I'm just jelly.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I'm just jelly.


 You should be jealous of the guys that have 0 hair loss.

----------


## garethbale

> To be honest mate, my hairline means that I can only wear bangs. Which does not suit me that much. Ross gellar hair style is what always did.
> 
> When it is windy/raining its a nightmare to keep my hairstyle in place.
> 
> I'm pretty frustrated because I would happily restore my hairline (straighten it out) if there was a decent product on the market that maintains. I have high hopes for histogen and only really check this section of the site.
> 
> It's been 10+ years since propecia came out. I can't believe there is nothing better out yet.
> 
> Edit:
> ...


 funnily enough i actually prefer to wear my hair forward rather than spiked up.  However since I have started receding (albeit slowly and not aggressively) I can't really style it forwards or up as I'd like.  I find there's too much of my temples showing which I don't like.

If I was confident that an effective treatment would come out in say 3-5 years I would probably get a transplant for the front.  If Dr Wesley's pilofocus proves effective I may go for that.  But the uncertainty of not knowing what the future holds, in terms of my own loss and market releases, worries me.  I am hoping Nigam is on to something but the more bad pics I see the more I am disappointed.

I really think in ten years we will have some effective treatments and hope my hair does hold till then.

The fact that your mates made bald jokes in your presence should show you that noone can notice your own loss.

Are you UK based yeahyeahyeah?

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> funnily enough i actually prefer to wear my hair forward rather than spiked up.  However since I have started receding (albeit slowly and not aggressively) I can't really style it forwards or up as I'd like.  I find there's too much of my temples showing which I don't like.
> 
> If I was confident that an effective treatment would come out in say 3-5 years I would probably get a transplant for the front.  If Dr Wesley's pilofocus proves effective I may go for that.  But the uncertainty of not knowing what the future holds, in terms of my own loss and market releases, worries me.  I am hoping Nigam is on to something but the more bad pics I see the more I am disappointed.
> 
> I really think in ten years we will have some effective treatments and hope my hair does hold till then.
> 
> The fact that your mates made bald jokes in your presence should show you that noone can notice your own loss.
> 
> Are you UK based yeahyeahyeah?


 Yes, like you I am waiting too see how Dr Wesleys treatment pans out for exactly the same reason.

Like you too, I am hoping that my hair holds out until better treatments come onto the market.

I am also UK based.

My friends don't really notice it, due to how I style my hair. But it was uncomfortable listening to it for obvious reasons. They were basically saying how people are looking ugly and old due to MPB.

That's my greatest fear, like those guys - turning into the subject of ridicule.

----------


## greatjob!

> This is the top of my head under very bright lighting.
> 
> Sigh - this is why Aderans has pissed me off! 
> 
> Guys like me, who are just looking to maintain, are forced to live in fear.


 Seriously dude you have no reason to spend so much time on here. I don't think your problem is hairloss, I think that your problem is that you're obsessed with looks.

----------


## StayThick

> This is the top of my head under very bright lighting.
> 
> Sigh - this is why Aderans has pissed me off! 
> 
> Guys like me, who are just looking to maintain, are forced to live in fear.


 I'm starting to think I'm the only one that actually suffers from hairloss on this forum. YeaYea something is seriously wrong with you if that is seriously your hair. Maintain?? Dude you have a mop.

Wtf....

----------


## hellouser

> This is the top of my head under very bright lighting.
> 
> Sigh - this is why Aderans has pissed me off! 
> 
> Guys like me, who are just looking to maintain, are forced to live in fear.


 Are you fvcking kidding me? How can you spend as much time on this forum as you have hair? Youre nowhere near balding.

----------


## john2399

Dam i hate you whoever posted that pic of hair. Screw you.

----------


## greatjob!

Body dismorphic disorder anyone?

----------


## Nerve

> This is the top of my head under very bright lighting.
> 
> Sigh - this is why Aderans has pissed me off! 
> 
> Guys like me, who are just looking to maintain, are forced to live in fear.


 Why are you living in fear?

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Why are you living in fear?


 In case I lose density/hairline recedes further.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Are you fvcking kidding me? How can you spend as much time on this forum as you have hair? Youre nowhere near balding.


 My hairline has receeded mate.

I never understand why other hairloss sufferers don't take low norwoods seriously.

----------


## UK_

Well in all honesty if I were 27 years old with that amount of hair I wouldnt be on this site, I'm surprised how little hair you've actually lost (NW1.5 for a 27 year old is better than average), especially considering how active you are on here.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Well in all honesty if I were 27 years old with that amount of hair I wouldnt be on this site, I'm surprised how little hair you've actually lost (NW1.5 for a 27 year old is better than average), especially considering how active you are on here.


 Are higher norwoods bald earlier?

----------


## sausage

> 


 WTF.

Why are you posting a picture of your full head of ridiculously thick hair on here?

What are you trying to show us? that you have the best hair in the world?

If you do have a receding hairline show that instead, hold your hair back and take a photo.

Posting a photo of the finest head of hair in the world doesn't make sense.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> WTF.
> 
> Why are you posting a picture of your full head of ridiculously thick hair on here?
> 
> What are you trying to show us? that you have the best hair in the world?
> 
> If you do have a receding hairline show that instead, hold your hair back and take a photo.
> 
> Posting a photo of the finest head of hair in the world doesn't make sense.


 
I already did:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpos...&postcount=272

Here.

----------


## sausage

fair enough, there looks to be some minor recession.....

I would not worry, your hair is bloody thick. It will be at least 3-4 years before your hairloss becomes noticeable to others....even then it won't be that bad....

If a cure comes out in 5-10 years like is expected.....then you are sorted.

Go out and get some punani.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> fair enough, there looks to be some minor recession.....
> 
> I would not worry, your hair is bloody thick. It will be at least 3-4 years before your hairloss becomes noticeable to others....even then it won't be that bad....
> 
> If a cure comes out in 5-10 years like is expected.....then you are sorted.
> 
> Go out and get some punani.


 Should I take fin?

----------


## Jcm800

> Should I take fin?


 Personally I think I should have taken finasteride ten years ago, when my hair was thick.  For you, it'd be worth it I think, but I can't recommend it as I'm doubting taking it daily, I think it'd be worth it in my case still as well, just read too many bad reports and am put off.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> Personally I think I should have taken finasteride ten years ago, when my hair was thick.  For you, it'd be worth it I think, but I can't recommend it as I'm doubting taking it daily, I think it'd be worth it in my case still as well, just read too many bad reports and am put off.


 How old are you?

----------


## Jcm800

> How old are you?


 I was 27 when I started losing, am 44 now, if you're lucky like me your loss will be very slow - but it'll catch up one day, it's catching me up now.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I was 27 when I started losing, am 44 now, if you're lucky like me your loss will be very slow - but it'll catch up one day, it's catching me up now.


 Yeah, I think my loss is v slow.

By the time i am 44 I hope that there will be better treatments. That is 17 years away.

----------


## hellouser

Is there any way to find out exactly how much much cash ARI needs for funding their Phase III trials?

----------


## idontwant2bebalding

> Is there any way to find out exactly how much much cash ARI needs for funding their Phase III trials?


 In his show, Spencer guessed about $5-$7 million.

----------


## hellouser

> In his show, Spencer guessed about $5-$7 million.


 That really isn't that much if you have multiple investors pitching in.

The kickstarter effort is a crapshoot, better to do an awareness campaign asking for funding and reaching out to investors.

----------


## idontwant2bebalding

I would like to know if ARI was cut loose with no ties to Aderans or if Aderans still own the rights to whatever ARI comes out with?


Another thing that has crossed my mind, Shiseido has invested in Replicel, does that have any impact on this decision? Is Aderans out of the research business or out of the direction of ARI?

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

> I would like to know if ARI was cut loose with no ties to Aderans or if Aderans still own the rights to whatever ARI comes out with?
> 
> 
> Another thing that has crossed my mind, Shiseido has invested in Replicel, does that have any impact on this decision? Is Aderans out of the research business or out of the direction of ARI?


 You guys need to forget about Aderans.

It's over.

----------


## samdee

> WTF.
> 
> Why are you posting a picture of your full head of ridiculously thick hair on here?
> 
> What are you trying to show us? that you have the best hair in the world?
> 
> If you do have a receding hairline show that instead, hold your hair back and take a photo.
> 
> Posting a photo of the finest head of hair in the world doesn't make sense.


 You need to relax Sausage, stop hating because he's not bald, he may be receding and he is concerned.

----------


## UK_

> That really isn't that much if you have multiple investors pitching in.
> 
> The kickstarter effort is a crapshoot, better to do an awareness campaign asking for funding and reaching out to investors.


 *Dude, feministFrequency was able to raise nearly $200,000 using a kickstarter and she only asked for $6,000!!!

It can work!!! We need Spencer to set it up for us, just this one favour for ALL us bald guys, all us visitors to your forum Spencer, all we are asking is for you to set up an official Kickstarter and make sure every penny goes toward the team at ARI!!!

All we ask, from all the people devoted to your forum and show is this ONE favour!!!

And just imagine the extra updates, knowledge and reports we would get if WE AS A FORUM WERE THE CONTRIBUTORS TO ARI!!!!!*

----------


## hellouser

> *Dude, feministFrequency was able to raise nearly $200,000 using a kickstarter and she only asked for $6,000!!!
> 
> It can work!!! We need Spencer to set it up for us, just this one favour for ALL us bald guys, all us visitors to your forum Spencer, all we are asking is for you to set up an official Kickstarter and make sure every penny goes toward the team at ARI!!!*


 Grow a pair of tits and people will bleed their hearts for you. Otherwise, not going to happen.

----------


## UK_

> Grow a pair of tits and people will bleed their hearts for you. Otherwise, not going to happen.


 Rolf most of us on FIN already have!! :Big Grin:

----------


## Arashi

If ARI was any good, they'd have no trouble finding a huge investor. Just like Replicel did. Kickstarter remains the last option when their technology sucks and they need to prey on the desperation of baldies.

----------


## hellouser

> If ARI was any good, they'd have no trouble finding a huge investor. Just like Replicel did. Kickstarter remains the last option when their technology sucks and they need to prey on the desperation of baldies.


 Thats worded as if its happened before. I wouldn't hold this as complete truth.

----------


## Arashi

> Thats worded as if its happened before. I wouldn't hold this as complete truth.


 Just look at the american stock market. It's currently hovering around its all time high !! People are desperate to jump in and investors are continually looking for interesting projects. If ARI can't convince anybody in this investment climate, then I sure as hell won't invest in them.

----------


## UK_

> If ARI was any good, they'd have no trouble finding a huge investor. Just like Replicel did. Kickstarter remains the last option when their technology sucks and they need to prey on the desperation of baldies.


 The team at ARI are adament that the technology works, and there's always room for improvement if they can be given the chance to go into a Phase III.  We would also be showing them that there is a market for even a product that could halt further hair loss (the investors may have ONLY been interested in a protocol that could grow substantial amounts of new hair, however you and I know that even if they could provide a treatment like Finasteride without the side effects it would be worthwhile).

----------


## hellouser

> Just look at the american stock market. It's currently hovering around its all time high !! People are desperate to jump in and investors are continually looking for interesting projects. If ARI can't convince anybody in this investment climate, then I sure as hell won't invest in them.


 Stock market is relatively recently back up to this point and its taken a good long while (thanks to that piece of shit stem celling stalling asshole known as George Bush).

Besides, they just got dumped, its not like their turnaround is going to be a couple days or weeks. This shit is going to take time to resolve. Filing, lawyers, approvals, meetings, contracts, banking, etc. Not going to be that quick.

----------


## Arashi

> The team at ARI are adament that the technology works, and there's always room for improvement if they can be given the chance to go into a Phase III.  We would also be showing them that there is a market for even a product that could halt further hair loss (the investors may have ONLY been interested in a protocol that could grow substantial amounts of new hair, however you and I know that even if they could provide a treatment like Finasteride without the side effects it would be worthwhile).


 I don't know man. I'm just a stock trader  :Wink:  But I do know something about investments and I do know that all of the big investors and pharma's have research departments with talented people who are much better at deciding whether something is likely to be a success than you and I. The mere fact that ARI can't find an investor in an extremely good investment climate like this, is a very red flag to me.

----------


## hellouser

> The mere fact that ARI can't find an investor in an extremely good investment climate like this, is a very red flag to me.


 You don't really expect them to find a new investor overnight, do you? They JUST lost their funding.

----------


## Arashi

> You don't really expect them to find a new investor overnight, do you? They JUST lost their funding.


 Well, what I mean is: if ARI's technology is likely to be successful, they'll find an investor. If not, they'll need to turn to us, desperate baldies.

----------


## UK_

> I don't know man. I'm just a stock trader  But I do know something about investments and I do know that all of the big investors and pharma's have research departments with talented people who are much better at deciding whether something is likely to be a success than you and I. The mere fact that ARI can't find an investor in an extremely good investment climate like this, is a very red flag to me.


 I know, especially after two successful clinical trials, no safety issues and a 70&#37;+ response rate.

What's the world coming to eh?  People would rather support a feminist vlogger than potentially resolving alopecia.

----------


## UK_

> Well, what I mean is: if ARI's technology is likely to be successful, they'll find an investor. If not, they'll need to turn to us, desperate baldies.


 So I take it Histogen are also doomed, given that Gail agreed to accept help from the forum :Confused: .

----------


## hellouser

> Well, what I mean is: if ARI's technology is likely to be successful, they'll find an investor. If not, they'll need to turn to us, desperate baldies.


 I'd agree, but us desperate baldies wont fund it, raising 5-7 million dollars publicly isn't going to be easy. Not sure if the FDA would even allow that. Microtransponder (tinnitus treatment research) declined funding from individuals whos earnings were less than $250,000 in the last year, which basically means, if youre a joe schmoe, you can't pitch in.

Lets just hope they DO get funding.

----------


## Arashi

> So I take it Histogen are also doomed, given that Gail agreed to accept help from the forum.


 Look mate, I want a cure as much as you do. Possibly even more. But I'm telling you how the investment world works. You don't have to believe me, but I'm not going to throw any money at them if they can't find an investor themselves.

----------


## UK_

> Look mate, I want a cure as much as you do. Possibly even more. But I'm telling you how the investment world works. You don't have to believe me, but I'm not going to throw any money at them if they can't find an investor themselves.


 I know, God knows how mankind was able to invent before the stock market :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): .

----------


## Arashi

> I know, God knows how mankind was able to invent before the stock market.


 I know how people like you feel they want to help out and do something. But really, especially in the smaller pharma's there are a lot of crooks. I see it so many times, management paying themselves huges salaries, huge stock options, free shares and whenever their stock has sunken too much, they just reverse split it and keep doing stock emissions. Not saying ARI is like that, I don't know, but I do know that there are people in this world who are much better at making that call than you and I and if they're not convinced, I'm not either.

----------


## brunobald

There seems like a lot of experimental members in this forum. Why not start an open source hair treatment, just like the 3d printer, or computer software opensource projets which rely on forum members to do the work and improve the product. The sort of money needed to fund Adreans would go a long way if we did it ourselves. You never know with the right press we might be able to get universitys to donate some PHD's time in the labs.

----------


## hellouser

Looks like Aderans' website took a hit:

http://www.aderansresearch.com/

Its a mess... and their IT guy also seemed to get the boot in April:

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/scott-lee/14/182/5b2

My god.. how incredibly poorly managed Aderans must have been to be taken to Phase II and then have its funding pulled at the very last Phase... incompetence at its finest. Their product was SUPPOSED TO be available early 2014... a few months from now. These guys failed miserably.

----------


## JulioGP

I do not believe in Timeline, unfortunately. 

Not wanting to be pessimistic, but these predictions do not work. Whenever we get an excess of expectation and the thing usually takes twice as predicted.

----------


## Thinning87

> Looks like Aderans' website took a hit:
> 
> http://www.aderansresearch.com/
> 
> Its a mess... and their IT guy also seemed to get the boot in April:
> 
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/scott-lee/14/182/5b2
> 
> My god.. how incredibly poorly managed Aderans must have been to be taken to Phase II and then have its funding pulled at the very last Phase... incompetence at its finest. Their product was SUPPOSED TO be available early 2014... a few months from now. These guys failed miserably.


 It's been like that for a while dude

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## rdawg

Could care less about this company+product, they never showed positive results.

Just because they are a company working to fight against hairloss doesnt mean we should care when they cant get it together. These guys needed to give up long ago.

I'm far more worried about histogen which has proven efficacy.

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