# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  PDG2 Stuff

## BudskiiHD

A few weeks ago lots of people were hyping about PDG2 inhibitors and such and on other forums I even read that it stopped hair loss completely for quite a few people who tried it. But the problem was it also inhibited PGE2 which was needed for hair growth. Iron dragon had some RAMATROBAN PDG2 receptor antagonist which didn't interfere with PGE2, isn't that the solution we want?? I haven't really been catching up with this PDG2 stuff lately, but no one talks about it anymore? Are people waiting for some sort of PDG2 inhibitor which will get clinically tested so that it is proved safe?

----------


## KO1

I'm using ID's Ramatroban's solution once daily. Nothing to speak of yet. Frankly, not expecting anything but maintenance.

----------


## BudskiiHD

> I'm using ID's Ramatroban's solution once daily. Nothing to speak of yet. Frankly, not expecting anything but maintenance.


 Even maintenance would be amazing, there would no need for propecia and thus eliminates those scary side effects. But, I guess the question now is whether romatroban is safe or not. Could you please keep us updated with your progress, sides etc

----------


## Pentarou

I get the strong impression that genuine PGD2 inhibitors will work (once dosage/purity/vehicle issues are sorted and agreed upon) BUT affecting that specific prostaglandin and crth2 receptor is only a piece in the puzzle, and won't do much on its own even in ideal situations, whatever those end up being.

----------


## HairlossAt15

Its hard to know how just how genuine home experiences are unfortunately. Along with the chance of the drugs being duds, wrong concentration/vehicle etc there is also the powerful effect of placebo.

----------


## KO1

Big concern is we don't know if the drug is penetrating the scalp enough....

----------


## bibz

I'm going to order Chromo/Indo from ID this week, Im NW1.5, and already have some vellu hair in the little reciding spot of my temples thanks to minox, I will post the result of the maintaining/VellusRegrowth results!

----------


## BudskiiHD

> I'm going to order Chromo/Indo from ID this week, Im NW1.5, and already have some vellu hair in the little reciding spot of my temples thanks to minox, I will post the result of the maintaining/VellusRegrowth results!


 I don't think it would do much for hair dependant on minox

----------


## bigentries

I have a hard time believing the claims that it stopped their shedding

There are people on forums that have used several compounds over the years and they claim all of them "at least stopped their shedding"

It is too difficult to validate something like that, I've been using fin for 3 years, and I'm pretty sure I haven't regrow any new hair, but I have no idea if I have maintained or not

----------


## bibz

> I don't think it would do much for hair dependant on minox


 Got a friend(NW2probably) who used Minox/MSM for a while and had a moderate result until he had Indo/Chromo(6 month ago) and let me tell you that i never seen a better hair quality(globaly) in my life, today hes like NW1.3, so i guess that the combinaison Minox/Indo+Chromo is a huge combo, but this kind of results are only possible for young guys with NW <= 2-2.5 for sure

----------


## Borealis

What's all this talk about Indo/Chromo completely inhibiting hair growth though? As in, the hair doesn't grow any longer?

----------


## bibz

> What's all this talk about Indo/Chromo completely inhibiting hair growth though? As in, the hair doesn't grow any longer?


 If you have some bald spots, Indo/Chromo will never regrow hair, but if you have a little reciding hairline THATS THE BEST SOLUTION! It will totally stop your hairloss. I just want to advice all young mbp sufferers, if you want to keep ALL your hair until the coming of a potential cure just go for PDG2 blockers! With fin and minox you will still loss some hair, more slowly thats sure but you will loss them(and you will totally **** your hormones and your p*nis)

----------


## TravisB

What the hell is this Indo/Chromo and where to buy it?

I did a little search in Google and I see only few people promoting it, so I'm guessing it's a scam and someone wants to make some money on desperate baldies.

----------


## bibz

> What the hell is this Indo/Chromo and where to buy it?


 PGD2 Blockers:Indo/Chromo, Ramatroban, D-Cloprostenol
It will probably not regrow your hair, BUT as i said if you are NW1.5-2.5 thats the better solution ever, it will 100% STOP your hairloss, that's the best way to keep your hair and all your precious hairline until the Graal comes out

----------


## bibz

Only few peoples promoting it cuz the only thing that they want is REGROW HAIR cuz the big majority of peoples realize that they're suffering of MBP a way too late. Thanks to god a realized it at NW1.5. I just say that PGD2 is the best solution for YOUNG guyz like me cuz it totally stop this ****ing disease.

----------


## bibz

And that's a thing that I never understood, peoples realize that they're losing their hair only at the moment when they have the temples of Vegeta.. or a big asteroid crater in the vertex spot...

----------


## BudskiiHD

> Only few peoples promoting it cuz the only thing that they want is REGROW HAIR cuz the big majority of peoples realize that they're suffering of MBP a way too late. Thanks to god a realized it at NW1.5. I just say that PGD2 is the best solution for YOUNG guyz like me cuz it totally stop this ****ing disease.


 Ok lets say it does totally stop the hairloss, but how do you know its safe? What if it is harmful longterm? Side effects?

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

guys enlighten the balding sufferers , where we get this indo chrono thing? any more info about it?

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

Chromoglycate

A compound called disodium cromoglycate, or also known simply as cromoglicic acid or chromoglycate, has been shown to be highly effective in inhibiting mast cell production and release of various prostaglandins, including prostaglandin D2[1].

PGD2 and Baldness

In 2012, Garza and Cotsarelis implicated prostaglandin D2 as a primary or main causative factor in male pattern baldness (androgenic alopecia)[2].  Prostaglandin D2 is an inflammatory prostaglandin (read more here: http://www.iron-dragon.com/product_i...roducts_id=230) found throughout the body and with multiple convergent roles, including immune function, inflammation, and central nervous system functions such as sleep and circadian rhythms [3].  Prostaglandin D-synthase or PGDS is an enzyme that has been shown to convert arachidonic acid (AA) into prostaglandin (PGs). 

L-PGDS vs H-PGDS

Two known types of PGDS have been discovered that are functionally convergent, meaning that they have a similar function (to convert AA into PGD2) but developed through evolutionary mechanisms independently of one another to act in separate physiological niches [4].  Lipocalin-type PGDS or L-PGDS exists primarily in the central nervous system and acts to upregulate levels of PGD2 for purposes of sleep regulation [3].  Hematopoetic-type PGDS or H-PGDS is found in the skin, blood, skeletal system, and in smooth and skeletal muscle, and is involved in immune response and inflammation [4].

Al-Waili et al write:

[it is] hypothesized that the overproduction of PGs is responsible for immunosuppression and secondary anemia in conditions associated with increased PG synthesis, such as pathologic inflammation, malignancy, trauma, and injury, and (2) that PG inhibitors reverse immunosuppression and secondary anemia, thereby enhancing the immune response. [5]

It is unlikely that disodium cromoglycate reduces physiological L-PGDS, CNS-involved prostaglandins, or interferes with the CNS or circadian rhythm roles of PGD2.

MPB as Inflammatory/Autoimmune Disorder

H-PGDS appears to be the main or only PGDS that could potentially play a role in the generation of local prostaglandins and induce androgenic alopecia.  H-PGDS acts within a specialized type of immune cell called a mast cell to convert the downstream product of arachidonic acid (PGH2) into PGD2:

PGD(2) is formed from arachidonic acid by successive enzyme reactions: oxygenation of arachidonic acid to PGH(2), a common precursor of various prostanoids, catalyzed by cyclooxygenase, and isomerization of PGH(2) to PGD(2) by PGD synthases (PGDSs). PGD(2) can be either pro- or anti-inflammatory depending on disease process and etiology[6]

Mast cells exist in red blood cells, skin, the gastrointestinal tract, and the vascular system.  Functioning mast cells are part of a normal, health immune system and also play roles in wound healing, but overactive mast cells are implicated in various immunological or inflammatory disorders as well as other diseases; PGD2 is a key component in some of these conditions:

Prostaglandin (PG)D(2) is a key mediator in various inflammatory diseases including allergy and asthma. It is generated by activated mast cells after allergen exposure and subsequently orchestrates the recruitment of inflammatory cells to the tissue. PGD(2) induces the chemotaxis of Th2 cells, basophils and eosinophils, stimulates cytokine release from these cells and prolongs their survival, and might hence indirectly promote IgE production. PGD(2) mediates its biologic functions via 2 distinct G protein-coupled receptors, D-type prostanoid receptor (DP), and the chemoattractant receptor-homologous molecule expressed on Th2 cells (CRTH2) [7]

If Cotsarelis and Garzas findings that PGD2 is a causative factor in human male pattern baldness are replicated, male pattern baldness may come to be regarded as an inflammatory or autoimmune disorder.

Citations

[1]Shichijo M, Inagaki N, Nakai N, Kimata M, Nakahata T, Serizawa I, Iikura Y, Saito H, Nagai H. The effects of anti-asthma drugs on mediator release from cultured human mast cells.  Clin Exp Allergy. 1998 Oct;28(10):1228-36.

[2] Garza LA, Liu Y, Yang Z, Alagesan B, Lawson JA, Norberg SM, Loy DE, Zhao T, Blatt HB, Stanton DC, Carrasco L, Ahluwalia G, Fischer SM, FitzGerald GA, Cotsarelis G. Prostaglandin D2 inhibits hair growth and is elevated in bald scalp of men with androgenetic alopecia. Sci Transl Med. 2012 Mar 21;4(126):126ra34.

[3] Wei-Min Qu et al.  Lipocalin-type prostaglandin D synthase produces prostaglandin D2 involved in regulation of physiological sleep. PNAS 103(47), 1794917954. Nov 2006.

[4] Urade Y, Eguchi N. Lipocalin-type and hematopoietic prostaglandin D synthases as a novel example of functional convergence. Prostaglandins Other Lipid Mediat. 2002 Aug;68-69:375-82.

[5] Al-Waili NS, Saloom KY, Al-Waili T, Al-Waili A, Al-Waili H. Modulation of prostaglandin activity, part 1: prostaglandin inhibition in the management of nonrheumatologic diseases: immunologic and hematologic aspects. Adv Ther. 2007 Jan-Feb;24(1):189-222.

[6] Joo M, Sadikot RT. PGD synthase and PGD2 in immune resposne (sic). Mediators Inflamm. 2012;2012:503128. Epub 2012 Jun 25.

[7]Schuligoi R, Sturm E, Luschnig P, Konya V, Philipose S, Sedej M, Waldhoer M, Peskar BA, Heinemann A. CRTH2 and D-type prostanoid receptor antagonists as novel therapeutic agents for inflammatory diseases. Pharmacology. 2010;85(6):372-82. Epub 2010 Jun 16.




http://www.iron-dragon.com/product_i...28d398907b2c93

----------


## bibz

Really dude, don't you know anything about PGD2?
About side effect, no big one reported yet in different forums, my friend didn't report side effect yet, and there is nothing worst than finastereide for young guyz, playing with your Hormone Level a this ages its like playing with the fire, Fin had totally killed my penis for a loooong time..

----------


## BudskiiHD

> guys enlighten the balding sufferers , where we get this indo chrono thing? any more info about it?


 iron-dragon.com

bibz, isn't ramatroban better to use than chromo/intro since ramatroban doesn't interfere with PGE2 which is needed for hair growth.

----------


## bibz

Chromo/Indo is a powerful PGD2 inhibitor thats why its so efficient for stoping hairloss, but in the other hand it also inhib PGE2, and PGE2 is important for growing hair

----------


## bibz

Yeah, but my friend just got stunning results with that so i want to give it a try before ramatroban, but PGD2 blockers are definitly the way to go for all young dudes

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

so bibz if i apply that topical i will stop the loss and i wont need to visit the barber again?

----------


## Dan26

bibz stop trolling us man post some legit evidence this stuff STOPS loss!I'm young NW2 save me !

----------


## ar50

> Really dude, don't you know anything about PGD2?
> About side effect, no big one reported yet in different forums, my friend didn't report side effect yet, and there is nothing worst than finastereide for young guyz, playing with your Hormone Level a this ages its like playing with the fire, Fin had totally killed my penis for a loooong time..


 Bibz whats up brother?

Where can i get this stuff and how can I use it?

bless you

----------


## bibz

lol trolling?
@Dan 
Its just an advice... I'm going to order it next week, i will post pics of my temples and i will show you the evolution.
I don't really care of density cuz I have a good one, my only goal is to stop the MBP, was on propecia during 2 years, that shit totally blew my hormone level, and im on rogaine since 3 years, pretty good stuff but i'm noticing a loss of effiency

----------


## bibz

> Bibz whats up brother?
> 
> Where can i get this stuff and how can I use it?
> 
> bless you


 On HLH and HS forums there is many posts about Chromo/Indo and ramatroban, go read them,
Chromo/Indo, ramatroban, Cloro on Iron dragon and OC000459, ramatroban and TM on the kane shop, but its powder on Kaneshop

----------


## bibz

As I said peoples dont really promote PGD2 blockers cuz i think its because they're not really efficient for regrowt hair, but its a powerful weapon for stopping the loss, and my friend told my that it stopped his loss like immediatly, so i'm going to try

----------


## bigentries

> Really dude, don't you know anything about PGD2?
> About side effect, no big one reported yet in different forums, my friend didn't report side effect yet, and there is nothing worst than finastereide for young guyz, playing with your Hormone Level a this ages its like playing with the fire, Fin had totally killed my penis for a loooong time..


 People in the spanish forum have tried indomethacin for 7 months and haven't got any results

Some of them did reported side effects, headaches and irritation

----------


## bibz

> People in the spanish forum have tried indomethacin for 7 months and haven't got any results
> 
> Some of them did reported side effects, headaches and irritation


 1. That's why i talk about about Indo... + CHROMO
2. SOME OF THEM had headaches and irritation... wooooh worst than a penis turing into a vagina that's sure..

----------


## bigentries

> 1. That's why i talk about about Indo... + CHROMO
> 2. SOME OF THEM had headaches and irritation... wooooh worst than a penis turing into a vagina that's sure..


 It was serious enough for them to stop using indo. 

And how can a penis turn into a vagina?

----------


## Boldy

> It was serious enough for them to stop using indo. 
> 
> And how can a penis turn into a vagina?


 he probably means, its better than fin sides that (androgen sides like fina dick..)

----------


## bibz

> It was serious enough for them to stop using indo. 
> 
> And how can a penis turn into a vagina?


 When your libido is so damn low(cuz of fin) that you can't even have an erection with a hot girl, for me its like a penis turning into a vagina lol.
Anyway I'm gonna try Indo/Chromo combo next week, I really feel like PGD2 blockers are the best way to fight efficiently MBP and I surely don't want to wait 10 years for FDA approval etc etc etc.... I will do everything to never reach the NW3 step!

----------


## Boldy

> When your libido is so damn low(cuz of fin) that you can't even have an erection with a hot girl, for me its like a penis turning into a vagina lol.
> Anyway I'm gonna try Indo/Chromo combo next week, I really feel like PGD2 blockers are the best way to fight efficiently MBP and I surely don't want to wait 10 years for FDA approval etc etc etc.... I will do everything to never reach the NW3 step!


 Indo/Chromo are *cox* blockers and no direct crth2 antagonists .. final results will be also lower Pge2 probably, so dont forget your minox.

----------


## KO1

Yeah you should use Ramatroban or TM.


Although I believe Indo is also an antifibrotic due to mast cell degranulation.

----------


## bibz

> Indo/Chromo are *cox* blockers and no direct crth2 antagonists .. final results will be also lower Pge2 probably, so dont forget your minox.


 Thanx for the advice fellow, but between Ramatroban and I/C wich one would you take?

----------


## ar50

> Thanx for the advice fellow, but between Ramatroban and I/C wich one would you take?


 yoow bibz.

could you please tell me:

1. what exactly u are gonna use?
2. in which proportion?
3. where can i buy them?

If the sides are only headache and irritation, im willing to try it. It isbetter than a penis that doesnt work.

----------


## bibz

> yoow bibz.
> 
> could you please tell me:
> 
> 1. what exactly u are gonna use?
> 2. in which proportion?
> 3. where can i buy them?
> 
> If the sides are only headache and irritation, im willing to try it. It isbetter than a penis that doesnt work.


 1.Ramatroban or Indo/Chromo
2. 2 squirts of ramatroban on my hairline daily after shower(OR same for Indo/Chromo), and continue rogaine one daily in all my scalp after shower
3.IronDragon website sell premixed Rama and I/C, or you can buy to the kane shop but it's powder, i'm gonna buy at ID website.
 :Smile:

----------


## Boldy

> Thanx for the advice fellow, but between Ramatroban and I/C wich one would you take?


 I have tried both rama and OC. OC stopped my shedding at lower dose than ramatroban. Currently im without treatments  :Frown:  I have tried litterly everything in the past.. I got insomnia from evry crth2 antagonist. My body is to senstive.. thats why Im focussing on the cure (dermal papilla culture)

its the cure, and should be side free. perfect for hyper sensitive people.

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...hreadid=103913

here is some more info about OC : https://www.google.nl/webhp?sourceid...w=1440&bih=785

----------


## ar50

> 1.Ramatroban or Indo/Chromo
> 2. 2 squirts of ramatroban on my hairline daily after shower(OR same for Indo/Chromo), and continue rogaine one daily in all my scalp after shower
> 3.IronDragon website sell premixed Rama and I/C, or you can buy to the kane shop but it's powder, i'm gonna buy at ID website.


 cool man ty.

what is the site of irondragon? i typed it in in google and i got some runscape site

----------


## BudskiiHD

If Ramatroban or Indo/Chrome get absorbed too much systemically, could it do some serious damage? I'm surprised people try stuff like this without knowing the possible side effects..

----------


## bibz

> If Ramatroban or Indo/Chrome get absorbed too much systemically, could it do some serious damage? I'm surprised people try stuff like this without knowing the possible side effects..


 Yeah buddy cuz rama or Indo/chromo etc... are pretty new in the MBP game, but all i know for now is that no one reported big side effects, my friend told me that he's scalp was a little more dry but that's all.. I ordered Indo/Chromo this morning, so i will see for evantual side effects. When you are in your 20s i think that the sexuel dysfunction is the worst side ever, poping some viagra at my age was probably the saddest thing that i done..

----------


## bibz

> If Ramatroban or Indo/Chrome get absorbed too much systemically, could it do some serious damage? I'm surprised people try stuff like this without knowing the possible side effects..


 And we can wait for trials or fda approvals which take like a decade, but your hair will not wait, they will fall one by one everyday... And when the drug will finally get approved, it would certainly be no more efficient for your MBP degree.......

----------


## KO1

> cool man ty.
> 
> what is the site of irondragon? i typed it in in google and i got some runscape site


 www.iron-dragon.com

that wasn't so hard.

----------


## bibz

But careful, the shipping cost is damn high, I'm living in Paris and i paid 66$ for it, like 75$ Indo/Chromo + 66$Shipping=141$ for 2.5-3month=56-60$/month, pretty expensive, so i'm going to work all the summer -_-

----------


## BudskiiHD

Hmm, look at this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1510057/

is this why caffeine stimulates hair growth because it increases output of PGF2 and PGE2?

----------


## bibz

Guyz i received my Indo/Chromo from Iron dragron this morning.
I received it very quickly(3 days).
I used it for the first time this morning before going to the university, and had no irritation scalp or burning scalp felling all the day, i will send some pics for guyz who want.

----------


## clandestine

Start a log, bibz.

Take baseline pictures, front middle back, and keep in a folder on your comp. repeat every 2 months.

----------


## Pentarou

> Start a log, bibz.
> 
> Take baseline pictures, front middle back, and keep in a folder on your comp. repeat every 2 months.

----------


## bibz

> 


 Yeah i will do it immediatly after my exam period, but for a quick update and especially for ar50, dude just go for pdg2blocker.... this shit is absolutely a good stuff(for the moment?), after 3 days i really have this impression of no more loss, and i say that cuz when i apply minox to my temples there is no more hair in my hand, its a ****ing goood sensation!

----------


## ar50

yOO BIBZ brother

how are you doing man? 
when are you going to give us your results?

----------


## bibz

How can i post some pictures???

----------


## BudskiiHD

> How can i post some pictures???


 Upload them to some image upload site like Imageshack and then post the link to it here

----------


## bibz

I will start a new thread of my result monday after my last exam -_-...
Just want to say that i'm gonna add some emu oil to my treatment, wich is also a little pgd2 blocker, and it will permit a better absorption of my actual Indo/Chromo and minox.

Indo/Chromo twice daily.
Rogaine twice daily.
0.25mg Fin once daily.
Nizoral twice weekly.
Emu oil once daily before going to sleep.

----------


## Phatalis

you guys use too much stuff at once to know what works and what doesnt

----------


## Conpecia

> you guys use too much stuff at once to know what works and what doesnt


 yep, especially with fin in the mix.

----------


## bibz

And you blame me for that?
I'm on rogaine and fin for a while, and I clearly noticed some difference between the last month and today, since i added ChromoIndo. You'll notice it too when i'll post some pics don't worry  :Smile:

----------


## walrus

No, but to find out if this stuff really works it needs to be used systemically almost like an experimental design.

----------


## bigentries

> yep, especially with fin in the mix.


 At least fin takes a long of time to see something

The worst mistake is people who start minox with any other "alternative" treatment. Everyone experiences at least some peach buzz that never grows longer on minox, yet they still want to believe their snake oils (or a legit potential treatment) is making little hairs grow

----------


## ar50

> I will start a new thread of my result monday after my last exam -_-...
> Just want to say that i'm gonna add some emu oil to my treatment, wich is also a little pgd2 blocker, and it will permit a better absorption of my actual Indo/Chromo and minox.
> 
> Indo/Chromo twice daily.
> Rogaine twice daily.
> 0.25mg Fin once daily.
> Nizoral twice weekly.
> Emu oil once daily before going to sleep.


 
Is it possible to stop you hairloss by using all these drugs you listed, except the fin?

I dont want the sides man thats why im asking.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Is it possible to stop you hairloss by using all these drugs you listed, except the fin?
> 
> I dont want the sides man thats why im asking.


 No one can answer that truthfully, that's why these are "experimentals". The only known FDA approved drug to stop hairloss is fin. 

Most of us are here to try and find a fin alternative...if we knew one that worked all the time for everyone...none of us would be here because we would be on that and a transplant and be golden...never to visit the site again.

----------


## CurlyBird

> I have tried both rama and OC. OC stopped my shedding at lower dose than ramatroban. Currently im without treatments  I have tried litterly everything in the past.. I got insomnia from evry crth2 antagonist. My body is to senstive.. thats why Im focussing on the cure (dermal papilla culture)
> 
> its the cure, and should be side free. perfect for hyper sensitive people.
> 
> http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...hreadid=103913
> 
> here is some more info about OC : https://www.google.nl/webhp?sourceid...w=1440&bih=785


 I am experiencing the same thing with TM-30089. Even at a dose of 0.15mg topically I get insomnia. I realize it's ultra potent but come on! Not to mention the other strange side effects I have been experiencing. Jesus Christ this is ****ing depressing. Setipiprant will probably do the same thing. I am quickly running out of options here. I am going to lower the dose even more, which is going to be hard because my scale can only measure amounts so small. I am also considering every other day dosing, due to the drug's long half life. GOD HELP US ALL!

----------


## ShookOnes

Lol reading this thread as a fin user and it's literally making me sigh

----------


## Dench57

> I am experiencing the same thing with TM-30089. Even at a dose of 0.15mg topically I get insomnia. I realize it's ultra potent but come on! Not to mention the other strange side effects I have been experiencing. Jesus Christ this is ****ing depressing. Setipiprant will probably do the same thing. I am quickly running out of options here. I am going to lower the dose even more, which is going to be hard because my scale can only measure amounts so small. I am also considering every other day dosing, due to the drug's long half life. GOD HELP US ALL!


 Even the slightest change in chemical structure can completely change a drug's effects on the body. TM has never been tested in humans so use it at your own risk. Setipiprant has been through several safety trials with no serious adverse effects. If sleeplessness is a problem then dose it in the early evening.

----------


## CurlyBird

> Even the slightest change in chemical structure can completely change a drug's effects on the body. TM has never been tested in humans so use it at your own risk. Setipiprant has been through several safety trials with no serious adverse effects. If sleeplessness is a problem then dose it in the early evening.


 I don't think changing the timing is going to matter. I have insomnia+fatigue at the same time, like I'm tired but I can't fall asleep. The half life is the substance really is too long and it is too powerful.

----------


## Dench57

> I don't think changing the timing is going to matter. I have insomnia+fatigue at the same time, like I'm tired but I can't fall asleep. The half life is the substance really is too long and it is too powerful.


 A dissociation half-life of 13.5 years on a substance never tested in humans. Sounds scary enough to me.

----------


## allTheGoodNamesAreTaken

What?! If you take one dose of this stuff, 13.5 years later your body still contains half of that dose? How can this be true?

----------


## Boldy

> I don't think changing the timing is going to matter. I have insomnia+fatigue at the same time, like I'm tired but I can't fall asleep. The half life is the substance really is too long and it is too powerful.


 Hi curly,

sounds very familiar unfortunately. i had these sides with OC and tm. while OC has been found to be as safe as placebo in the linical trials, however they used it oral 100 or 200Mg tabs twice a day. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/resul...&Search=Search

You don't really need  better scales to measure lower doses. If you take 1ML 0.1% solution and put it in 9 ml solution, you would get 0.01% solution by diluting it. So you can play with the doses very easy with this method. Trying OC in the morning did not solve the sides for me back then by the way.

I was very sensitive to Ru too but have managed to get the sides under control if I take it in the morning combined with high dose st johns wort. It might have same effect with crth2 antagonists, but never tried!

more about st johns and sides: https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/thread...l=1#post192505


I'm curious if st johns will help you with the sides!

----------


## CurlyBird

> Hi curly,
> 
> sounds very familiar unfortunately. i had these sides with OC and tm. while OC has been found to be as safe as placebo in the linical trials, however they used it oral 100 or 200Mg tabs twice a day. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/resul...&Search=Search
> 
> You don't really need  better scales to measure lower doses. If you take 1ML 0.1% solution and put it in 9 ml solution, you would get 0.01% solution by diluting it. So you can play with the doses very easy with this method. Trying OC in the morning did not solve the sides for me back then by the way.
> 
> I was very sensitive to Ru too but have managed to get the sides under control if I take it in the morning combined with high dose st johns wort. It might have same effect with crth2 antagonists, but never tried!
> 
> more about st johns and sides: https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/thread...l=1#post192505
> ...


 I know I can dilute it further but I will need a larger container at this point. Thanks for the advice though. Have you tried seti at all? One guy I talked to got insomnia from OC but has been taking seti and says he's fine on that point.

----------


## burtandernie

How many years until seti comes out if the new cures bill can help speed it up?

----------


## mossirgyevot

been doing a lot of reading on pdg2 inhibitors and hair loss, at the age of 58, my hair has turn grey and thin on top to the point of being bald, one week ago i started a new diet with veg and fruit. and then i started taking rutin, Quercetin, and artichoke capsules. one aday to start with. Then i made my own mix of olive oil,onion extract with a juice machine i own, Fresh Atrichoke extract, Cinnamon leap oil, to help with the smell,black cumin oil. I mix it up and put it in a spray bottle, good for one week.  I take Apple cider vinegar with cotton ball's and wipe my bald spots down along with the rest of the top of my head, wait 10 min then i wash with coco nut and water shampoo, then I applied the mix from the spray bottle and leave it on for 15min to 45 min. Each night then wash it off with coco nut and water shampoo. I have been looking each day with a strong Mirror for results. it has been one week. Surprisingly there are new hair and a lot more than i thought. I'am going to start taking one more capsule of Luteolin which is a another inhibitor. I plan on doing this for about 3 months to see what happens, I feel like i didn't lose my hair over night so it may take some time to work.  I cut all of my hair off so i can see result. will keep you updated.

----------

