# Other Discussions > Hair Loss Rants >  Has anyone successfully beaten BDD?

## Aames

I am going insane with this. I used to see a therapist but he really did not help me at all. He was close to retirement and may have been just mailing it in. Anyway, I cannot stop looking in mirrors (especially checking my hair and acne). Since I've upgraded to the new iPhone, I also use that reverse camera thing to look at myself at every opportunity. I am not exaggerating when I say that I spend at least a half hour per day looking at my reflection/image in some way. My appearance is all that I think about. It is preventing me from thinking about things that matter: studies, friends, family, girls, etc. I don't really know where else to turn. Any advice, brahs?

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## Davey Jones

Right off the bat, you should get rid of every mirror you own aside from your bathroom mirror.  If your iPhone is encouraging that behavior, you should consider changing phones too.  I know that iPhones are sick.  If I wasn't saving for a big move, I'd get me one.  But it's obviously encouraging a behavior that you know is interfering with your life.  How much is getting on with your life worth to you?

Every time you look at yourself, it reinforces the thought pattern that you _need_ to look at yourself.  Basically an "Oh no, I look like shit, good thing I checked."  Or an "Oh man, I look great, good thing I checked."  It's operant conditioning.  You need to remove the rewarding/punishing stimuli to start extinguishing the product behavior.

That's a long way from fixing BDD, but you know that cliche thing they say: every journey starts with one step.

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## BigThinker

Well said, Davey.

I had to force myself not to analyze/count every single hair on my head, not check my hairline close-up for 20 minutes a day, etc.  Just like you said, some days I was chill with my hairline's look or I wouldn't see any hair on my hand in the shower -- those days felt great.  Even though it had a positive impact on my mentallity short term, it set me up just to knock me down when I saw hair on my hand in the next day or two.  It was just re-enforcing the habit, even when I felt good.

I read this thread last night, and even though I've somewhat overcome my own BDD, I had no idea how to answer his inquiry.

Great post, mang.

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## Aames

Thanks for the support guys. Davey, your advice is very sound and rational, especially on the tail-end of a psychology exam in which I studied conditioning and the like. I really want to make a conscious effort to not look in the mirror so much but one of my major issues is that my skin gets stupidly oily. As such, I usually have to go to the bathroom once every few hours to wipe it so I don't look all greasy and disgusting. It's while I'm there that I typically also look at my hair and other things.

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## baldozer

> Thanks for the support guys. Davey, your advice is very sound and rational, especially on the tail-end of a psychology exam in which I studied conditioning and the like. I really want to make a conscious effort to not look in the mirror so much but one of my major issues is that my skin gets stupidly oily. As such, I usually have to go to the bathroom once every few hours to wipe it so I don't look all greasy and disgusting. It's while I'm there that I typically also look at my hair and other things.


 What are you studying? Which degree?

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## BigThinker

> Thanks for the support guys. Davey, your advice is very sound and rational, especially on the tail-end of a psychology exam in which I studied conditioning and the like. I really want to make a conscious effort to not look in the mirror so much but one of my major issues is that my skin gets stupidly oily. As such, I usually have to go to the bathroom once every few hours to wipe it so I don't look all greasy and disgusting. It's while I'm there that I typically also look at my hair and other things.


 I had greasy skin and bad acne from like age 14-17 or something like that.  I remember every day thinking how I would be such a happier, better person if it'd go away.

Fast forward 7-8 years: I take my skin for granted every single day -- I've almost totally forgotten how much it blows to have acne.  Now, instead I think how much happier I would be and how much better life would be if I wasn't balding.

I think that's what it is about guys like us.  We're never happy.  After hanging with a girl for a week or two, I go from total infatuation to utter disinterest.  If there's a way to learn to be content, but still motivated to better oneself, I would love to know.  I will say I'm definitely better than I used to be, but so far yet to go.

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## TheLaughingCow

Aames, how old are you?  You remind me of myself in a strange way.

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## Aames

> What are you studying? Which degree?


 I want to be a pharmacist so I plan to get a bachelor's degree in chemistry.



> I had greasy skin and bad acne from like age 14-17 or something like that.  I remember every day thinking how I would be such a happier, better person if it'd go away.
> 
> Fast forward 7-8 years: I take my skin for granted every single day -- I've almost totally forgotten how much it blows to have acne.  Now, instead I think how much happier I would be and how much better life would be if I wasn't balding.
> 
> I think that's what it is about guys like us.  We're never happy.  After hanging with a girl for a week or two, I go from total infatuation to utter disinterest.  If there's a way to learn to be content, but still motivated to better oneself, I would love to know.  I will say I'm definitely better than I used to be, but so far yet to go.


 God man, yeah acne is ****ing terrible. Especially at my age, it just shouldn't be there. I want to go on Accutane so bad but I fear hair loss similar to what happened/is happening to Highlander. He plans to get a HT soon but I won't be able to afford one until I am out of school and I really do not want to have one if it is avoidable. 

I'm also really afraid that I will never be happy. My biggest fear is achieving my goals but still being depressed. If that happens, I'll probably just kill myself. I wonder if happiness is impossible for some people.




> Aames, how old are you?  You remind me of myself in a strange way.


 21, man. I'm sorry to hear that you struggle with things such as this. Hopefully we can conquer this and move on some day.

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## BigThinker

> My biggest fear is achieving my goals but still being depressed. 
> 
> I wonder if happiness is impossible for some people.


 Gotta set and reach benchmarks in your life.  It's necessary.  Academics and career development are aspects of your life you have immediate, total control over.  Happiness will follow as you find success.  Snow ball your confidence.

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## baldozer

> I am going insane with this. I used to see a therapist but he really did not help me at all. He was close to retirement and may have been just mailing it in. Anyway, I cannot stop looking in mirrors (especially checking my hair and acne). Since I've upgraded to the new iPhone, I also use that reverse camera thing to look at myself at every opportunity. I am not exaggerating when I say that I spend at least a half hour per day looking at my reflection/image in some way. My appearance is all that I think about. It is preventing me from thinking about things that matter: studies, friends, family, girls, etc. I don't really know where else to turn. Any advice, brahs?


 Common man, it shouldn't be so bad. Look at me, I started balding at 13 and was a NW6 when graduated from university. All my classmates had full heads of hair. Imagine what a freak I used to look like, bald at such a young age. It was really embarrassing for me, but life went on, and I did very well academically. When I was in my early 20s, people thought I was a 35 year old guy. You at least have hair!

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## Aames

> Gotta set and reach benchmarks in your life.  It's necessary.  Academics and career development are aspects of your life you have immediate, total control over.  Happiness will follow as you find success.  Snow ball your confidence.


 This is what I hope for. Thanks again.



> Common man, it shouldn't be so bad. Look at me, I started balding at 13 and was a NW6 when graduated from university. All my classmates had full heads of hair. Imagine what a freak I used to look like, bald at such a young age. It was really embarrassing for me, but life went on, and I did very well academically. When I was in my early 20s, people thought I was a 35 year old guy. You at least have hair!


 I have nothing but sympathy for you, man. I know I am obsessive but, given my past failings and wastes, I just want a shot at being happy for the first time since childhood and I have it ingrained in me that I need to be as good-looking as I possibly can be to do so.

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## mpb47

> I am going insane with this. I used to see a therapist but he really did not help me at all. He was close to retirement and may have been just mailing it in. Anyway, I cannot stop looking in mirrors (especially checking my hair and acne). Since I've upgraded to the new iPhone, I also use that reverse camera thing to look at myself at every opportunity. I am not exaggerating when I say that I spend at least a half hour per day looking at my reflection/image in some way. My appearance is all that I think about. It is preventing me from thinking about things that matter: studies, friends, family, girls, etc. I don't really know where else to turn. Any advice, brahs?


 FWIW - Some of those mobile device cameras can sort of distort reality and make you look worse than reality. A few days ago I was with a much younger (late 20's ), pretty co worker at a Windows 8 demo. The camera on the the device made her look older - no she has loads of hair , but it still made her look older- esp around her eyes. She noticed it too and wondered if she really looked like that. No she doesn't in real life, but the device certainly made it appear that way.

I have no idea why this can happen , but I saw it first hand Thursday afternoon so just remember that some cameras can distort reality.

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## Iambannana

id never heard of this, but this is exactly me too. i look in the mirror constantly every chance i can at my hairline and how bad its getting, and the ol iphone front facing camera trick too. i dont even know what im looking for. hair is shit, just as it was yesterday and as it will be tomorrow, but i feel the need to just constantly look at it?

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## Aames

> Tell me this, how many people on bodybuilding.com reached their goals and felt unhappy? *None.* It feels amazing to know you smashed your goals and become aesthetic for it. There is no difference between this and cosmetic surgery, removing acne, getting an HT.
> 
> It's fear mongering from the fat, ugly, bald NW7's of BTT. Don't let them get to your brother. Stay strong.


 Thanks for the reminder, man. The more I think about it, the more I realize that aesthetics are one of the very few driving forces remaining in my life. I am very near to giving up on personal relationships and hobbies; while devoting myself to complete physical and intellectual perfection (I think, for people like us, "mental" or "emotional" perfection is impossible).

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## PatientlyWaiting

> I want to be a pharmacist so I plan to get a bachelor's degree in chemistry.
> 
> God man, yeah acne is ****ing terrible. Especially at my age, it just shouldn't be there. I want to go on Accutane so bad but I fear hair loss similar to what happened/is happening to Highlander. He plans to get a HT soon but I won't be able to afford one until I am out of school and I really do not want to have one if it is avoidable. 
> 
> I'm also really afraid that I will never be happy. My biggest fear is achieving my goals but still being depressed. If that happens, I'll probably just kill myself. I wonder if happiness is impossible for some people.


 If you get an HT with the hairline you have now [if the doctor even allows you to have one], I think you'd be a NW -7.

Seriously, you do not need an HT for the time being. If you can just keep what you have for years to come, you'll be good to go.

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## Aames

> If you get an HT with the hairline you have now [if the doctor even allows you to have one], I think you'd be a NW -7.
> 
> Seriously, you do not need an HT for the time being. If you can just keep what you have for years to come, you'll be good to go.


 I hope so, friend. That is why I am treating it so aggressively. On a semi-related note, if Winston allows signatures; I want you and 25 to be co-leaders of the Duta crew with me.

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## PatientlyWaiting

Sounds good.

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## Woodyy

Sometimes I think I have BDD, there's always something I have to be concentrating on. Back in December - Feb, before my hairloss, I'd reached my goal physique, my hair was fine etc... Nothing major going on but I still found myself obsessing over these tiny little blackheads I had on my nose, I bought all sorts of creams, oils etc to get rid of them. 

Now that im going through chit with my hair it's all I obsess about, I bet once I overcome this hairloss (and I'm doing everything to make sure I do) I'll find something else wrong with myself.

Vicious circle.

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## mature

Always I have learned that any root of obession or emotional conflict the content is NOT what is important, it is not the sense of hair loss that is distressing, or the way you look etc.. It is always something deeper such as fear of not being good enough, feeling inferior or be little d, comparative to others, self criticism etc... 

People have a tendency to obsess over what is wrong or to wish they had something they don't, if it is not hair loss it could be something different.. Maybe you lost you're eye sight, a limb, etc.. Maybe a pyschological basis such as major depression  or generalized anxiety disorder. 

Let me tell you from personal experience, I had been under the illusive suffering of the worst ends of OCD, Generalized Anxiety, Severe hours lasting panic attacks, and De personalization... Literally went from hell to back again multiple times... There is a sort of appreciation and intimacy with life that people gain going through severe circumstance and coming out the other end... I had studied and became very well educated on the nature of things like anxiety and depression, then I applied everything I learned and failed and failed again... It was a very up and down process but I have since fully recovered and will not fall into the mental trap of stuff like that again because I understand it.  BDD actually falls under the category of anxiety spectrum dysfunctions and is very curable.. The constant checking and obsessing you are mentioning are exactly what is keeping the cycle going, you don't need to change to another faulty self image or anything ridicolous like that you just need to see yourself as you really are, without the judgement and analyze of you're own mind..  

My guess is there are some deeper emotional issues going on that are being manifested into this BDD you are experiencing, instead of pushing it away and getting in a vicious cycle look into it and see whats really going on and needs to be absolved. 

Most importantly every type of suffering produced is caused from the central point of mind or ego, It is the ways we go against the strides of what is really true and our delusions that lead us to suffering, self judgement being one of those.. If you are interested check out a book from Adyashanti on google called Way of Liberation and read the E book.. May give you exactly what you need if you are willing to try and fully apply it and see what happens. 

On another note no one should be that seriously concerned here about going bald permanently; true we are all at different stages of hair loss but by the looks of it in the next few years there will be a cure in the form of something so no need to fret.

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## NotBelievingIt

Since you clearly go to bb.com - you probably spend an inordinate amount of time in the 'mirin section of the guys even if you won't admit it.  NO HOMO right?  That has to be the god damn stupidest ****ing idiotic phrase that only sexually insecure little boys say - its quite funny how the first time I saw it with any regularity was on bb.com though.

Anyway - Stop going to BB.com 'mirin. Right. Now.

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## Aames

> Always I have learned that any root of obession or emotional conflict the content is NOT what is important, it is not the sense of hair loss that is distressing, or the way you look etc.. It is always something deeper such as fear of not being good enough, feeling inferior or be little d, comparative to others, self criticism etc... 
> 
> People have a tendency to obsess over what is wrong or to wish they had something they don't, if it is not hair loss it could be something different.. Maybe you lost you're eye sight, a limb, etc.. Maybe a pyschological basis such as major depression  or generalized anxiety disorder. 
> 
> Let me tell you from personal experience, I had been under the illusive suffering of the worst ends of OCD, Generalized Anxiety, Severe hours lasting panic attacks, and De personalization... Literally went from hell to back again multiple times... There is a sort of appreciation and intimacy with life that people gain going through severe circumstance and coming out the other end... I had studied and became very well educated on the nature of things like anxiety and depression, then I applied everything I learned and failed and failed again... It was a very up and down process but I have since fully recovered and will not fall into the mental trap of stuff like that again because I understand it.  BDD actually falls under the category of anxiety spectrum dysfunctions and is very curable.. The constant checking and obsessing you are mentioning are exactly what is keeping the cycle going, you don't need to change to another faulty self image or anything ridicolous like that you just need to see yourself as you really are, without the judgement and analyze of you're own mind..  
> 
> My guess is there are some deeper emotional issues going on that are being manifested into this BDD you are experiencing, instead of pushing it away and getting in a vicious cycle look into it and see whats really going on and needs to be absolved. 
> 
> Most importantly every type of suffering produced is caused from the central point of mind or ego, It is the ways we go against the strides of what is really true and our delusions that lead us to suffering, self judgement being one of those.. If you are interested check out a book from Adyashanti on google called Way of Liberation and read the E book.. May give you exactly what you need if you are willing to try and fully apply it and see what happens. 
> ...


 Great post. I know in my case, it likely stems from my depression and my desire for revenge. I spent my high school years fat and got no attention from girls. Now, after realizing I had an attractive face underneath the fat, I'm trying to maximize my aesthetic potential to both help my confidence and to get back at those that rejected me or would have rejected me. It's sick but I can't help but feel this way. And I realize I am a hypocrite, I want to punish others for being superficial but yet I am probably more superficial than they are. I'll check out that book sometime now that it's summer. I want to continue my journey but I would like to be somewhat happy along the way.




> Since you clearly go to bb.com - you probably spend an inordinate amount of time in the 'mirin section of the guys even if you won't admit it.  NO HOMO right?  That has to be the god damn stupidest ****ing idiotic phrase that only sexually insecure little boys say - its quite funny how the first time I saw it with any regularity was on bb.com though.
> 
> Anyway - Stop going to BB.com 'mirin. Right. Now.


 Are you insinuating that I'm gay? Just because I appreciate a physique for its form and beauty doesn't mean I am sexually-attracted to it. Truthfully, I think the male form is superior to the female form as art (something to appreciate visually) but, again, I feel no attraction towards it. And yeah, that's a world that's steeped in a lot of homo-eroticism. People discovering it for the first time have to say "no homo" because, to an outsider, it really does seem like a bunch of homosexuals are parading around and complementing each other.

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## NotBelievingIt

No, definitely not dude.  Just that you're likely spending "too much" time looking at photos of guys striving for something that you may likely never have and are holding yourself to an ideal that is just not realistically attainable by most.

And a nekkid fem body is far more attractive as art then a guy, come on!! heh

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## mature

[QUOTE=Aames;124432]Great post. I know in my case, it likely stems from my depression and my desire for revenge. I spent my high school years fat and got no attention from girls. Now, after realizing I had an attractive face underneath the fat, I'm trying to maximize my aesthetic potential to both help my confidence and to get back at those that rejected me or would have rejected me. It's sick but I can't help but feel this way. And I realize I am a hypocrite, I want to punish others for being superficial but yet I am probably more superficial than they are. I'll check out that book sometime now that it's summer. I want to continue my journey but I would like to be somewhat happy along the way.




You can be happy, always, regardless of outer circumstance the physical body included.. What you are stating about revenge and such look deeper into that.. Do you think anyone really cares about all of these antics? Can't you just let it go and focus on better and more important things? I will let you in on a lil secret nobody really cares that much about other people in the realm of judgement and criticism everyone is too focused on themselves anyways.. People might say an off comment to people here and there but its just a bunch of nonsense, it is way better to just be unreactive and not care about what others think.. You can improve yourself but do it for you, let a deeper more stable confidence shine through you, something tempered and forged through some adversity and to completely disregard external opinions or judgements.  

You're depression sounds like it stems from self esteem issues as well, but that is all illusive as it is... Self Image is totally made up and doesn't exist the second you stop thinking it into life.   Did you know that if people saw a clone of them selves walk by them they would not even recognize them? It is because our image of ourselves even when we look in a mirror is completely distorted to how it actually is in reality.   You keep projecting being happy to future goals and bringing the sense of lack or anger onto you're looks when you should be focused on whats going on in the inside.    You are a young person, you do not want to live the rest of you're life like this do you? It sounds to me like you are alive but not doing very much ACTUAL living, there is too much conflict, turmoil, and attachment to actually go out and enjoy yourself. 


I will tell you here and now the exact thing that is going on and how to fix it.. You have a distorted view and opinion about yourself and the people around you, it is nothing to do with whats going on in you're "life" that is causing you suffering, You're suffering right now is caused by you're beliefs and illusions of whatever thoughts you are falling into and believing as perceived notion of reality. This is why I suggest you do some inner searching and find each and every way you are deceiving yourself to arrive at this state of inner strife and emotional conflict, through self inquiry and contemplation.   I think talking to the right person would help you immensely, life is no fun living when all you are obsessing and thinking about is how to keep things perfect and controlled. 

Maybe check out the movie Peaceful Warrior on Netflix too when you get the chance. 


Depression and anxiety both arise from a belief or distortion of thinking and reality that starts in the head, once it happens and symptoms start up it can be a downward spiral from there until you learn exactly how you are causing yourself to get caught in the vicious cycle to drop it.

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## drybone

> Common man, it shouldn't be so bad. Look at me, I started balding at 13 and was a NW6 when graduated from university. All my classmates had full heads of hair. Imagine what a freak I used to look like, bald at such a young age. It was really embarrassing for me, but life went on, and I did very well academically. When I was in my early 20s, people thought I was a 35 year old guy. You at least have hair!


 Ok. This explains a lot.

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## Aames

[QUOTE=mature;124565]


> Great post. I know in my case, it likely stems from my depression and my desire for revenge. I spent my high school years fat and got no attention from girls. Now, after realizing I had an attractive face underneath the fat, I'm trying to maximize my aesthetic potential to both help my confidence and to get back at those that rejected me or would have rejected me. It's sick but I can't help but feel this way. And I realize I am a hypocrite, I want to punish others for being superficial but yet I am probably more superficial than they are. I'll check out that book sometime now that it's summer. I want to continue my journey but I would like to be somewhat happy along the way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can be happy, always, regardless of outer circumstance the physical body included.. What you are stating about revenge and such look deeper into that.. Do you think anyone really cares about all of these antics? Can't you just let it go and focus on better and more important things? I will let you in on a lil secret nobody really cares that much about other people in the realm of judgement and criticism everyone is too focused on themselves anyways.. People might say an off comment to people here and there but its just a bunch of nonsense, it is way better to just be unreactive and not care about what others think.. You can improve yourself but do it for you, let a deeper more stable confidence shine through you, something tempered and forged through some adversity and to completely disregard external opinions or judgements.  
> 
> You're depression sounds like it stems from self esteem issues as well, but that is all illusive as it is... Self Image is totally made up and doesn't exist the second you stop thinking it into life.   Did you know that if people saw a clone of them selves walk by them they would not even recognize them? It is because our image of ourselves even when we look in a mirror is completely distorted to how it actually is in reality.   You keep projecting being happy to future goals and bringing the sense of lack or anger onto you're looks when you should be focused on whats going on in the inside.    You are a young person, you do not want to live the rest of you're life like this do you? It sounds to me like you are alive but not doing very much ACTUAL living, there is too much conflict, turmoil, and attachment to actually go out and enjoy yourself. 
> 
> ...


 Your posts are very enlightening, mature. Your choice of screen-name is incredibly appropriate. Could it be that my life is stagnating since I am trying to better myself out of hate and anger rather than self-love? I'm finding it incredibly hard to get over these feelings of bitterness and resentment for others for not accepting me for how I used to be. I feel that I must maximize my aesthetic potential to hurt them and prove them wrong. I feel that I must obtain this state before I can go out into the world and be truly happy. Perhaps I should look into therapy again but I find it so hard to open up in front of a live person. I more or less faked a recovery the last time I saw a therapist so I didn't have to see him any more. It's a lot easier for me to post my problems on the internet where I am a only a representation of my real self. What you are suggesting I do is CBT, is it not? Altering my thought patterns to be more positive?

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## gldngamer

[QUOTE=Aames;125210]


> Your posts are very enlightening, mature. Your choice of screen-name is incredibly appropriate. Could it be that my life is stagnating since I am trying to better myself out of hate and anger rather than self-love? I'm finding it incredibly hard to get over these feelings of bitterness and resentment for others for not accepting me for how I used to be. I feel that I must maximize my aesthetic potential to hurt them and prove them wrong. I feel that I must obtain this state before I can go out into the world and be truly happy. Perhaps I should look into therapy again but I find it so hard to open up in front of a live person. I more or less faked a recovery the last time I saw a therapist so I didn't have to see him any more. It's a lot easier for me to post my problems on the internet where I am a only a representation of my real self. What you are suggesting I do is CBT, is it not? Altering my thought patterns to be more positive?


 
My outlook towards life is very similar to yours Aames. how are you doing now btw?  i know what your going through, its depressing and it sucks. Just wanted to say that i've got a skype account now, i tried messaging you but for some reason its blocked or something. Sorry for littering your post and going off topic but i hope to contact you soon mate,take care.

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## Aames

[QUOTE=gldngamer;125228]


> My outlook towards life is very similar to yours Aames. how are you doing now btw?  i know what your going through, its depressing and it sucks. Just wanted to say that i've got a skype account now, i tried messaging you but for some reason its blocked or something. Sorry for littering your post and going off topic but i hope to contact you soon mate,take care.


 Yeah, I think walls are disabled now. Check my profile for my skype name. Hope to talk soon.

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## mature

[QUOTE=Aames;125210]


> Your posts are very enlightening, mature. Your choice of screen-name is incredibly appropriate. Could it be that my life is stagnating since I am trying to better myself out of hate and anger rather than self-love? I'm finding it incredibly hard to get over these feelings of bitterness and resentment for others for not accepting me for how I used to be. I feel that I must maximize my aesthetic potential to hurt them and prove them wrong. I feel that I must obtain this state before I can go out into the world and be truly happy. Perhaps I should look into therapy again but I find it so hard to open up in front of a live person. I more or less faked a recovery the last time I saw a therapist so I didn't have to see him any more. It's a lot easier for me to post my problems on the internet where I am a only a representation of my real self. What you are suggesting I do is CBT, is it not? Altering my thought patterns to be more positive?


 
Thanks lol, Well I am stating rather then alter perceptions or change you're opinions just drop the whole thing, look at the ways you crucify yourself and burden yourself with the negative cycles of thought you get caught in.. You do not need to alter it to positive thinking you just need to learn not to be swayed by the ego and let it control and dictate you.. Just observe the patterns and then see when you can just drop it, enter into simply being present without thinking more and more. You are just putting external expectations and limitations on yourself that really seem to be never ending, once one goal is done then another is placed indefinitely and you won't be happy till you do them all.. That means you would be stuck in a permanent cycle of cynical limited potential and a life of mental shackles and chains.. Just drop all of it instead, Just say you are perfect and fine here and now and understand that happiness is an inner job. Definitely talk to someone if you feel up to it, opening up and being vulnerable is the only true courage after all, its easy to close yourself and put up walls everyone does it, go in the opposite direction and overcome the insecurities once and for all.

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## Aames

[QUOTE=mature;125271]


> Thanks lol, Well I am stating rather then alter perceptions or change you're opinions just drop the whole thing, look at the ways you crucify yourself and burden yourself with the negative cycles of thought you get caught in.. You do not need to alter it to positive thinking you just need to learn not to be swayed by the ego and let it control and dictate you.. Just observe the patterns and then see when you can just drop it, enter into simply being present without thinking more and more. You are just putting external expectations and limitations on yourself that really seem to be never ending, once one goal is done then another is placed indefinitely and you won't be happy till you do them all.. That means you would be stuck in a permanent cycle of cynical limited potential and a life of mental shackles and chains.. Just drop all of it instead, Just say you are perfect and fine here and now and understand that happiness is an inner job. Definitely talk to someone if you feel up to it, opening up and being vulnerable is the only true courage after all, its easy to close yourself and put up walls everyone does it, go in the opposite direction and overcome the insecurities once and for all.


 Your post makes a lot of sense but is this possible while still desiring self-improvement? I look at myself and I want to improve constantly, but I do not want it to consume me.

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## mature

[QUOTE=Aames;125373]


> Your post makes a lot of sense but is this possible while still desiring self-improvement? I look at myself and I want to improve constantly, but I do not want it to consume me.


 Here is where it is simple but can either make you suffer or just relax and enjoy things. IF you are trying to improve and strive for perfection this is delusional because it is in context to self image which is made up and whether it is good or bad its still illusive. The physical body is just like an empty vessel that you inhabit while here, there is no identification without self image. If you drop everything and forget about yourself you can still work on the body and do certain things, however there is no identity or sense of self involved in it. It is okay and perfectly fine to halt hair loss and be preventive, to work out and improve the physical vitality and strength, to better work the mind in IQ and intelligence, however its all just seen as kind of a game and you are completely unattached to it all. If you are constantly seeking improvement in the form of comparison or because of a slight feeling of being less then or inferior then it becomes neurotic and you get obsessive and compulsive. This turns something that should just be seen as fun and kind of a game into mental chains and shackles and a definite prescription of suffering. There are three ways human beings trick themselves into suffering, first is the false sense of needing to control everything. The second is wishing things were different, and the third is arguing with what is.  

There is nothing wrong with wanting to improve the functioning or keep aesthetics as long as you are completely unattached and realize it is not you. Once there is no identity or sense of self there is no emotional turmoil or psychological suffering.  You have to see the impermanence of things and realize everything comes to a pass, in terms of body when we age we all lose our looks that is just something that happens with age, you will not look as good at 70 as you did at 25.    

Hope this makes sense, it can seem a little too far over some heads if a person is too identified with their personal or collective conditioning.

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## Aames

[QUOTE=mature;125427]


> Here is where it is simple but can either make you suffer or just relax and enjoy things. IF you are trying to improve and strive for perfection this is delusional because it is in context to self image which is made up and whether it is good or bad its still illusive. The physical body is just like an empty vessel that you inhabit while here, there is no identification without self image. If you drop everything and forget about yourself you can still work on the body and do certain things, however there is no identity or sense of self involved in it. It is okay and perfectly fine to halt hair loss and be preventive, to work out and improve the physical vitality and strength, to better work the mind in IQ and intelligence, however its all just seen as kind of a game and you are completely unattached to it all. If you are constantly seeking improvement in the form of comparison or because of a slight feeling of being less then or inferior then it becomes neurotic and you get obsessive and compulsive. This turns something that should just be seen as fun and kind of a game into mental chains and shackles and a definite prescription of suffering. There are three ways human beings trick themselves into suffering, first is the false sense of needing to control everything. The second is wishing things were different, and the third is arguing with what is.  
> 
> There is nothing wrong with wanting to improve the functioning or keep aesthetics as long as you are completely unattached and realize it is not you. Once there is no identity or sense of self there is no emotional turmoil or psychological suffering.  You have to see the impermanence of things and realize everything comes to a pass, in terms of body when we age we all lose our looks that is just something that happens with age, you will not look as good at 70 as you did at 25.    
> 
> Hope this makes sense, it can seem a little too far over some heads if a person is too identified with their personal or collective conditioning.


 I think I understand what you are saying. I should attach no importance to aesthetics as they are fleeting and not actually a representation of me? I can pursue them if I recognize my body as only a vessel and I separate my mental/emotional being from my physical being? You have really helped me think about things differently, mature. I have to thank you yet again for your detailed responses.

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## mature

[QUOTE=Aames;125761]


> I think I understand what you are saying. I should attach no importance to aesthetics as they are fleeting and not actually a representation of me? I can pursue them if I recognize my body as only a vessel and I separate my mental/emotional being from my physical being? You have really helped me think about things differently, mature. I have to thank you yet again for your detailed responses.


 Exactly, but it is one thing to believe something and to apply it in that way, a complete other to know and realize that you are not that and to have no wavering distress or conflict through anything at least internally... Hair loss is extremely distressing and painful to ego not you, that's why some people get massively insecure and depressed over hair loss and others don't care about it at all.. It's just that different people find different things important but that's all in the form of mind and self image and whatever threatens that is heavily painful, even moving beyond it and letting it go..

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## mature

I highly suggest checking out a book called Falling into Grace by Adyashanti when you get the chance Aames, it will do far more for you then a bit of talk therapy I feel...

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## Aames

[QUOTE=mature;125827]


> Exactly, but it is one thing to believe something and to apply it in that way, a complete other to know and realize that you are not that and to have no wavering distress or conflict through anything at least internally... Hair loss is extremely distressing and painful to ego not you, that's why some people get massively insecure and depressed over hair loss and others don't care about it at all.. It's just that different people find different things important but that's all in the form of mind and self image and whatever threatens that is heavily painful, even moving beyond it and letting it go..


 Oh, absolutely. If I could only apply the knowledge that I have, I would likely be completely happy. The application of these things is the most difficult part.





> I highly suggest checking out a book called Falling into Grace by Adyashanti when you get the chance Aames, it will do far more for you then a bit of talk therapy I feel...


 I absolutely will; I have a ton of free time and really enjoy reading. Thank you so much, mature. Your comments have really helped me analyze myself and my behaviors that cause me distress. I think I now know the path that I need to follow.

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## 25 going on 65

BDD is awful. Many times I think I am through with the worst of it, but it always seems to come back. This month has been bad

Aames, I have read about your experience growing up....would you say your BDD was triggered by going from fat guy to good looking? (No offense, this is a serious question)
That exact type of situation is what set mine off I think. I was an awkward kid from about age 12  until 15 or 16....bad skin, no style, etc. Girls pretty much never noticed me, but nearing the end of puberty my looks took a 180.

This was when I realized, life is infinitely better when you have female attention/validation. It seriously is like night and day to me. & I think this transition is what mentally f*cked me up for the long haul. Ever since then I have had so much more to lose....when MPB hit (before I realized how well meds could work) I thought it was all over, like I was dead already

Does this ring a bell for you? When you have experienced both sides of the coin, how can you possibly go back?? Seriously, I feel like I would rather die than go back to being in that awkward kid's shoes man. I would do anything to stop that from happening

I think this is why I feel like crap when I feel starved for validation. I can feel my younger self creeping back to the surface, it puts me back in that mind set.

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## Aames

> BDD is awful. Many times I think I am through with the worst of it, but it always seems to come back. This month has been bad
> 
> Aames, I have read about your experience growing up....would you say your BDD was triggered by going from fat guy to good looking? (No offense, this is a serious question)
> That exact type of situation is what set mine off I think. I was an awkward kid from about age 12  until 15 or 16....bad skin, no style, etc. Girls pretty much never noticed me, but nearing the end of puberty my looks took a 180.
> 
> This was when I realized, life is infinitely better when you have female attention/validation. It seriously is like night and day to me. & I think this transition is what mentally f*cked me up for the long haul. Ever since then I have had so much more to lose....when MPB hit (before I realized how well meds could work) I thought it was all over, like I was dead already
> 
> Does this ring a bell for you? When you have experienced both sides of the coin, how can you possibly go back?? Seriously, I feel like I would rather die than go back to being in that awkward kid's shoes man. I would do anything to stop that from happening
> 
> I think this is why I feel like crap when I feel starved for validation. I can feel my younger self creeping back to the surface, it puts me back in that mind set.


 I completely understand where you are coming from. Now that I have tasted what it feels like to experience the world as an attractive person, I could never go back. I agree completely. That is why MPB sent me on this spiral into caring about aesthetics so much. I would rather be dead than to go back to how it used to be. Attention, both female and male, just feels too good. I try to convince myself that I do all this just for me, but I don't really think that's true. The fat kid that just wants attention and people to like him is still inside of me.

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## BigThinker

> I completely understand where you are coming from. *Now that I have tasted what it feels like to experience the world as an attractive person*, I could never go back. I agree completely. That is why MPB sent me on this spiral into caring about aesthetics so much. I would rather be dead than to go back to how it used to be. Attention, both female and male, just feels too good. I try to convince myself that I do all this just for me, but I don't really think that's true. The fat kid that just wants attention and people to like him is still inside of me.


 Genuine inquiry: What have you done to make yourself "attractive"?

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## Aames

> Genuine inquiry: What have you done to make yourself "attractive"?


 Lost 75 lbs mostly. It's hard to see your facial shape when you hold fat in your face. Also my acne was non-existent for a time. This is the period when I had a gf and got a lot of female attention. I regained 20 lbs thanks to BED/bulimia and my acne came back within the last year. Struggling to get it back under control. I suspect binging and acne are related.

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## BigThinker

> Lost 75 lbs mostly. It's hard to see your facial shape when you hold fat in your face. Also my acne was non-existent for a time. This is the period when I had a gf and got a lot of female attention. I regained 20 lbs thanks to BED/bulimia and my acne came back within the last year. Struggling to get it back under control. I suspect binging and acne are related.


 Wow, well congrats on losing the 75 lbs (assuming they were excess weight) -- that's actually quite an accomplishment.  I can't even shake this belly fat I've accrued over the winter.

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## 25 going on 65

> I completely understand where you are coming from. Now that I have tasted what it feels like to experience the world as an attractive person, I could never go back. I agree completely. That is why MPB sent me on this spiral into caring about aesthetics so much. I would rather be dead than to go back to how it used to be. Attention, both female and male, just feels too good. I try to convince myself that I do all this just for me, but I don't really think that's true. The fat kid that just wants attention and people to like him is still inside of me.


 Yes it is definitely about validation and acceptance from others, I would say. 
I also have this nightmare scenario of people seeing me and saying "remember how that guy used to be? Look at him now!" That went through my head a thousand times when I realized I had MPB. 

I have known guys like this who completely let themselves go in the last 10 years or just had terrible luck with genetics (MPB is the biggest possible image destroyer in your 20s besides self neglect or freak accidents/diseases). When I see how people talk about those kinds of guys I think, "if people ever speak about me like that it would be the worst depression spiral known to man"

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## 25 going on 65

> I also have this nightmare scenario of people seeing me and saying "remember how that guy used to be? Look at him now!" That went through my head a thousand times when I realized I had MPB.


 Maybe this was not clear, this is not something that happens to me now, but it is something I DREAD happening in the future (can no longer edit the post)

The worst part is, no matter what we do, we all lose our image eventually if we live long enough.

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## Aames

> Maybe this was not clear, this is not something that happens to me now, but it is something I DREAD happening in the future (can no longer edit the post)
> 
> The worst part is, no matter what we do, we all lose our image eventually if we live long enough.


 Yeah, I think I share a lot of your fears. I feel I still have room to improve and that I haven't peaked yet. I don't want mpb to prevent me from reaching my potential.

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## Aames

> Wow, well congrats on losing the 75 lbs (assuming they were excess weight) -- that's actually quite an accomplishment.  I can't even shake this belly fat I've accrued over the winter.


 Thanks, man.

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