# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  50 grafts patch test in Vitro Hair Doubling as requested by GC @Dr. Nigam's

## drnigams

Dear Friends,

As requested by GC and few others at TBT presenting before picture taken today 28th March 2013, for 50 graft patch test for in Vitro donor doubling on this MPB case. GC has also requested the same from HST and want to compare the two technique regarding the donor and recipient regeneration. 

Any other modification required in this case study, feel free to communicate to me.

Hope GC will do the independent documentation and digital follow up of donor and recipient growth. 

Below are the before pictures for tomorrows 50 grafts patch test including one short video. 6 tattoos have been made on the recipient and 6 tattoos have been made on the donor shaved scalp.

As requested by GC and others we will take out mostly triplets and double grafts.

Tomorrow i.e., 29th March 2013, we will post the Day 0 pictures.


Links for the pictures

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/01.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/02.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/03.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/04.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/05.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/06.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/07.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/08.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/09.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/10.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/11.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/12.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/13.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/14.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/15.jpg

Video link

http://youtu.be/78QDCNGQ2lc

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## youngin

Thanks Dr. Nigam.

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## 534623

> ... to compare the two technique regarding the donor and recipient regeneration.


 Sorry, but there is absolutely nothing to compare, because besides your photoshopped photos on your website, you couldn't prove so far not 1 growing hair neither in the donor area nor in the recipient area - not even 1 hair!

btw - I thought you bought a $1000 camera? 
It doesn't seems so...
... the (useless) photos rather look like as taken by a cheap mobile phone camera.

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## hellouser

> btw - I thought you bought a $1000 camera? 
> It doesn't seems so...
> ... the (useless) photos rather look like as taken by a cheap mobile phone camera.


 EXIF data on the jpegs provided in the current photos as well as previous show a camera model 'GM-60D'. Most likely a Canon 60D, so yes, about $1000.

And no, they dont look like a cheap mobile phones results.

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## cocacola

way to go nigam, if u want to prove somehting on this forum pics or it didnt happen  :Big Grin:

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## 534623

> And no, they dont look like a cheap mobile phones results.


 Yeah, you're right - they look like $1000 super-duper high quality photos ... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## hellouser

> Yeah, you're right - they look like $1000 super-duper high quality photos ...


 The pictures are fine. All cameras will exhibit noise when using a high ISO, including the 60D, it may have been set to 3200 ISO or higher.

I know youre a total noob when it comes to photography, so this is an area where you should keep quiet.

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## PatientlyWaiting

How come 534623 is allowed to troll on this site continuously? Does this site have no moderator?

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## Jasari

I am highly skeptical of the legitimacy of these treatments but I've been on message boards like these for near on a decade and no doctor has been as open with their treatments.

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## JJJJrS

> Yeah, you're right - they look like $1000 super-duper high quality photos ...


 The pictures are excellent. 

For example, with this picture, if you click and zoom-in, you can count all the hairs very easily and see exactly how many hairs are in each unit.

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## HARIRI

Great pictures Dr. Nigam, we appreciate your patience and efforts in meeting the demands of the forum members. Looking forward to your results.

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## The Alchemist

> How come 534623 is allowed to troll on this site continuously? Does this site have no moderator?


 Just ignore him; he's nothing more than background noise.

Nice work Dr. Nigram, this is a good start and more than we've seen from any Dr. to date.  Hopefully the follow up photos will be as thorough and of as high a quality as the initial set.  Good luck!

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## 25 going on 65

> How come 534623 is allowed to troll on this site continuously? Does this site have no moderator?


 I have wondered this for awhile.

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## 534623

> I know youre a total noob when it comes to photography, so this is an area where you should keep quiet.


 Excuse me, but are you the one,
who is able to make such photos with cheap digital cameras
http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/...View-Day-3.jpg 

 or even such a series of real close-up photos
http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpos...2&postcount=16

 or is it me?

And are you the one,
 who documented *the worlds 1st day-by-day donor hair regeneration process* at all 



 or is it me? 

Nobody, I mean really NOBODY on this planet has ever such photos and documentations concerning hair follicle regeneration! NOBODY!

So I think you or one of the other completely useless jerks in thread are definitely NOT the one who can tell ME, what are good or bad photos(-documentations) or who should rather be the one who should keep quiet.

AND, in addition, most guys, who have always been interested in such procedures  without me, *they would still know A SHIT* about anything at all!  just to let you psychiatric idiots know.

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## hellouser

You're still a total amateur when it comes  to photography and have zero knowledge about the technical side about photography. You just proved my point in that response too, you didn't mention anything relevant and only boasted about how you documented 'amazing' pictures. So what, because you have an amazing opinion of some pictures makes you an expert photographer? You know nothing of shutter speeds, iso, aperture, depth of field or even *proper controlled off camera flash lighting*

Take a seat ironman, for all your criticisms of everyone about basically everything, this is one area where I know for sure you know jack sh*t.

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## 534623

> *You know nothing* of shutter speeds, iso, aperture, depth of field or even *proper controlled off camera flash lighting*
> 
> Take a seat ironman, for all your criticisms of everyone about basically everything, *this is one area where I know for sure you know jack sh*t.*


 _pfffffffft..._should I?
Sorry, but did I mention anywhere that I'm an expert concerning "shutter speeds, iso, aperture, depth of field or even *proper controlled off camera flash lighting"??

What an idiot ...  :Big Grin: 

What helps knowledge about "shutter speeds, iso, aperture, depth of field or even *proper controlled off camera flash lighting" when neither patients nor doctors are able to show us (but what I DID!) WHAT WE WANT TO SEE ??

Excuse me, but can you idiot explain me in detail, how your superb knowledge about "shutter speeds, iso, aperture, depth of field or even *proper controlled off camera flash lighting" can help me to see what I want to see in the end?
Thanks in advance.

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## 534623

I have a much better question for you:

Can your superb “shutter speeds, iso, aperture, depth of field or even *proper controlled off camera flash lighting*” knowledge help me and tell me …

Day 3 *FULL SIZE*
http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/...Area-Day-3.jpg

Day 7 *FULL SIZE*
http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/...Area-Day-7.jpg

… the *percentage of donor regeneration* in my HST treated occiput area?

No? Yes?
Can you *see* any hairs regrowing at all with such photos?
Or is it rather true...
http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=11858

... what individuals like "Dr" Nigam fraudulently claims?

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## Jasari

Why a doctor actually communicating on an online community frustrates people has me confused. It should give us much better idea of the capabilities of HM & Donor Doubling regardless of whether the treatment is successful (unlikely) or not.

I don't think any rational balding person has a vested interest in who 'wins' the race to cure or significantly improve MPB - People just want it fixed (Whether that comes from Histogen, Gho or Batman - Who cares); and doctors being more available and transparent online only serves to help.

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## drnigams

Dear Friends,

As requested by GC and few others at TBT presenting before picture taken today 28th March 2013, for 50 graft patch test for in Vitro donor doubling on this MPB case. GC has also requested the same from HST and want to compare the two technique regarding the donor and recipient regeneration. 

Any other modification required in this case study, feel free to communicate to me.

Hope GC will do the independent documentation and digital follow up of donor and recipient growth. 

Below are the before pictures for tomorrows 50 grafts patch test including one short video. 6 tattoos have been made on the recipient and 6 tattoos have been made on the donor shaved scalp.

As requested by GC and others we will take out mostly triplets and double grafts.

Tomorrow i.e., 29th March 2013, we will post the Day 0 pictures.































For large images follow the below URL :-

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/large/01.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/large/02.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/large/03.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/large/04.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/large/05.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/large/06.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/large/07.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/large/08.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/large/09.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/large/10.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/large/11.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/large/12.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/large/13.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/large/14.jpg

http://www.drnigams.net/images/rtn/large/15.jpg





> Dear Friends,
> 
> As requested by GC and few others at TBT presenting before picture taken today 28th March 2013, for 50 graft patch test for in Vitro donor doubling on this MPB case. GC has also requested the same from HST and want to compare the two technique regarding the donor and recipient regeneration. 
> 
> Any other modification required in this case study, feel free to communicate to me.
> 
> Hope GC will do the independent documentation and digital follow up of donor and recipient growth. 
> 
> Below are the before pictures for tomorrows 50 grafts patch test including one short video. 6 tattoos have been made on the recipient and 6 tattoos have been made on the donor shaved scalp.
> ...

----------


## 534623

> Dear Friends,
> 
> As requested by GC and few others at TBT presenting before picture taken today 28th March 2013, for 50 graft patch test for in Vitro donor doubling on this MPB case.


 Excuse me, are you able to explain IN DETAIL what, exactly, are you going to do at all in this case?

1) How do you intend to extract the grafts in the donor area?
   1a) With a rambo knife?
   1b) With a cavitation laser machine?
   1c) With a X-ray apparatus
   1d) With a conventional "punch" - and if "yes" - which size?

2) In which way do you intend to "split" in vitro "the thing" you extracted from the patients' donor area? 

3) How will "the thing" you intend to extract look like at all after extraction?

4) What exactly (4a) and in which way (4b) do you intend to implant into the patients' recipient area?

5) Are you able, for example, ...

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/...Area-Day-3.jpg

... to take such a photo from the patients' donor area so that viewers are *also* able to see what's going on BEYOND the tattooed area?

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## One

Guys what do you say to open a thread where we ask to moderation a ban for Iron Man? He's just a troll and he ruin any discussion with the dott.Nigam.

* The facts say if Nigam will be a flop or not.* It's useless to put too much pressure and do  nerd troll.

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## 534623

> Guys what do you say to open a thread where we ask to moderation a ban for Iron Man?


 I think that's a good idea - as they did on HS and as I can see the outcome today:

Banning the knowledgeable guys and just leaving all the biggest jerks behind - yup, great idea and works great... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## didi

> I think that's a good idea - as they did on HS and as I can see the outcome today:
> 
> Banning the knowledgeable guys and just leaving all the biggest jerks behind - yup, great idea and works great...


 

I agree, IronMan needs to be banned ,at least temporary for a month or 2 and then we will see if his behavior improves

in meantime IM can go to HRN site and try to promote HASCI, I wonder how long would he last on HRN :EEK!: 


I beleive Dr Nigam is doing his best to help us and is the only Dr who is actually talking and listening to us

He needs more respect from hairloss losers like Ironman
he wouldnt be wasting his time and money if he doesnt beleive it might work

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## 534623

> I agree, IronMan needs to be banned... 
> 
> He needs more respect from hairloss losers like Ironman


 Excuse me, but aren't you the guy "moopookoo" at HairSite...


... who has been one of the first who exposed Dr. Nigam as fraudster?

And are you the same person who now tries to lick this fraudsters ass, 
just because you heard so much about his Mother Teresa hair transplant costs for losers who would sell their mother for some hairs?

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## didi

> Excuse me, but aren't you the guy "moopookoo" at HairSite...
> 
> 
> ... who has been one of the first who exposed Dr. Nigam as fraudster?
> 
> And are you the same person who now tries to lick this fraudsters ass, 
> just because you heard so much about his Mother Teresa hair transplant costs for losers who would sell their mother for some hairs?


 
I was the the first who exposed dr nigam and his fake images BUT now its different story, he is trying his best, we had NVN guy ho went there and we have to wait and see how he turns out, 
dr nigam is willing to do many free tests for us whereas gho just agreed to do 1 test  in 10 years ..nigam has been around only 4 months...plus gho ignored emails from dr cole who wanted to learnd about technique..how ethical is that?

i dont care where HM/real doubling comes from, as long as it works and price is cheap. Gho prices are TOO high plus time needed 

Whtever gho is doing is not rocket science, im sure dr nigam can copy him or even make it better for fraction of price...yes i want it cheap..i dont like spending 50k on hst and have nice thin combover, its insane

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## 534623

> ...plus gho ignored emails from dr cole who wanted to learnd about technique..*how ethical is that?*


 It is as ethical as explaining a useless stupid jerk like you ...

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpos...&postcount=170

...simple things over and over again.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## One

> It is as ethical as explaining a useless* stupid jerk like you* ...
> 
> http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpos...&postcount=170
> 
> ...simple things over and over again.


 I would advise you to save screen shots of Iron Man and  you do 	civil complaint. There isn't  anyone lawyer in this forum? You pay your next ht with the compensation money!

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## gc83uk

How did it go today Dr Nigam? It's nearly 8pm your local time now, right?

When will you be uploading the photos of today's 50 grafts patch test? 

Thanks

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## 534623

> I would advise you to save screen shots of Iron Man and  you do 	civil complaint.


 Yes, that's something he should do and he should tell his laywer (in addition to the screenshot) the following:

"The bad guy IronMan called me on the baldtruthtalk forums 'useless stupid jerk'."

Anyway, if I would be his laywer, I would immediately think "What a useless...."  :Big Grin:

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## Kirby_

Do we KNOW that Never say never isn't just a Dr Migams sock puppet?

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## One

> Yes, that's something he should do and he should tell his laywer (in addition to the screenshot) the following:
> 
> "The bad guy IronMan called me on the baldtruthtalk forums 'useless stupid jerk'."
> 
> Anyway, if I would be his laywer, I would immediately think "What a useless...."


 Now with the global spread of Internet are made ​​thousands of complaints in one day for online defamation against people like you, so nothing strange with that. And with an insult so obvious you would be sentenced to 100&#37; and you should pay $ 1000 + costs of process. Laugh, laugh...

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## 534623

> And with an insult so obvious you would be sentenced to 100% and you should pay *$ 1000 + costs of process*. Laugh, laugh...


 ahh, good to know ...



> Iron man needs brain transplant

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## clandestine

> Excuse me, are you able to explain IN DETAIL what, exactly, are you going to do at all in this case?
> 
> 1) How do you intend to extract the grafts in the donor area?
>    1d) With a conventional "punch" - and if "yes" - which size?
> 
> 2) In which way do you intend to "split" in vitro "the thing" you extracted from the patients' donor area? 
> 
> 3) How will "the thing" you intend to extract look like at all after extraction?
> 
> ...


 These should be addressed by Dr. Nigam.

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## clandestine

Also, not cool to reveal people's personal information. ****** off with that, post reported.

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## youngin

Uh oh. Now you have his name. Although I think its not right to post that picture, it obviously was an accident. India doesn't have the same privacy rules as America, and there are thousands of Kunal Patel's there.

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## Kirby_

> Uh oh. Now you have his name. Although I think its not right to post that picture, it obviously was an accident. India doesn't have the same privacy rules as America, and there are thousands of Kunal Patel's there.


 What's wrong with Iron Man exposing a sock puppet account scam? There's enough of those scams and shills out there, they all need exposing.

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## 534623

> And with an insult so obvious you would be sentenced to 100% and you should pay *$ 1000 + costs of process*. Laugh, laugh...


 hmmm, and what do you estimate how much will something like this cost...

...I mean, if you exclude the death threat?

Anyway, according to the writing and posting skills,
I guess "G-Man13" is one of Dr. Nigam's gang - because who else could be so extremely pissed??  :Big Grin:

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## didi

Sounds like John Smith

very common name

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## gc83uk

> What's wrong with Iron Man exposing a sock puppet account scam? There's enough of those scams and shills out there, they all need exposing.


 There is nothing wrong with Iron Man exposing a sock puppet account scam, however NSN (KP) is legit, he is a regular user just like you and me who has been treated by Gho and Nigam.

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## drnigams

GC,
 can you please upload on TBT my 15 graft test patch study for you posted by myself at HS.
Can you do independent documentation for me if i mail u the pics.




> How did it go today Dr Nigam? It's nearly 8pm your local time now, right?
> 
> When will you be uploading the photos of today's 50 grafts patch test? 
> 
> Thanks

----------


## 534623

> There is nothing wrong with Iron Man exposing a sock puppet account scam, however NSN (KP) is legit, he is a regular user just like you and me who *has been treated by Gho* and Nigam.


 Are you 100&#37; sure?

Or are you just "sure" about that, because "nsn told me that"?

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## 534623

> GC,
>  can you please upload on TBT my 15 graft test patch study for you posted by myself at HS.


 I'm not gc, but I have just upoaded one of your HS photos ...

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpos...8&postcount=84

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## gc83uk

> Are you 100% sure?
> 
> Or are you just "sure" about that, because "nsn told me that"?


 I am 100% sure and not just because he told me that.

It wouldn't be fair for me to state my reasons why, anything else on this matter would have to come from NSN.

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## aim4hair

I don't think that's neversaynever cause in the image it says the guy had 2000 grafts while nsn only had 1028 as reported by dr. Nigam.
Anyways, i hope that's not him cause nobody deserves to have his identity revealed unless he wants to..

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## gc83uk

> GC,
>  can you please upload on TBT my 15 graft test patch study for you posted by myself at HS.
> Can you do independent documentation for me if i mail u the pics.


 Dr Nigam, I'm off out now, but feel free to mail me the pics g10wtt @ yahoo.com and I'll take a look later this evening. Thanks

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## 534623

> I don't think that's neversaynever cause in the image it says the guy had 2000 grafts while nsn only had 1028 as reported by dr. Nigam.


 But you should think that - because even the URL/link contains "neversaynever" - and no other name. And concerning the 1028 versus 2000 grafts thingy:

It was the intention of the whole "neversaynever procedure" to get twice as much grafts for the recipient area due to "doubling"...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

And just because a bottle is labeled with "marmalade" - it doesn't mean that the bottle indeed contains "marmalade" - better known as "Jam".

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## Kirby_

> There is nothing wrong with Iron Man exposing a sock puppet account scam, however NSN (KP) is legit, he is a regular user just like you and me who has been treated by Gho and Nigam.


 How naive...

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## 534623

> How naive...


 Why? 
"Neversaynever is a 'Senior Member'" !! - as very often mentioned this by Dr. Nigam... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

When neversaynever is a "Senior Member" - let me guess:
I must be the "President Member" or "VIP Member"? lol

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## 534623

> When neversaynever is a "Senior Member" - let me guess:
> I must be the "President Member" or "VIP Member"? lol


 And here is what the "Senior Member" had to say just a few month ago:

*
"I've been on forums for a year..."* - and what exactly do you guys know about this "Senior Member"?

Here is, at least, what I know about this "Senior Member":
http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpos...4&postcount=16

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## didi

NSN cant be dr nigams shill as dr nigam started posting on forums about 5 months ago

NSN is legit, no need to be paranoid for no reason

Where is he now? I wish he is more active

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## 534623

> NSN cant be dr nigams shill as dr nigam started posting on forums about 5 months ago ...


 That makes him even more suspect - like you:

Spanish Dude disappeared at the same time as you appeared on hair loss forums.

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## gc83uk

> How naive...


 What information do you have to suggest I'm naive? I can't wait for this!

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## gc83uk

> NSN cant be dr nigams shill as dr nigam started posting on forums about 5 months ago
> 
> NSN is legit, no need to be paranoid for no reason
> 
> Where is he now? I wish he is more active


 Precisely.  Too many retards in here.

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## didi

yes but my writing style is different to spanish dude
besides when i started i was more of neutral leaning towards beleiver..now im more of a sceptic

my opinion evolved since i started on forums

NSN is legit, will nigams doubling work or not its another question..


did dr nigam stop offering FUT/FUT/biofibre at his clinic?

things are changing so fast i find it hard to follow,new techniques on a weekly basis..

at this rate within a year dr nigam will be cloning humans

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## drnigams

didi,
Not just fut/fibre.. we will stop offering FUE at our clinic from april 2013.
Fue will only be offered to non affordable patients :Smile: 




> yes but my writing style is different to spanish dude
> besides when i started i was more of neutral leaning towards beleiver..now im more of a sceptic
> 
> my opinion evolved since i started on forums
> 
> NSN is legit, will nigams doubling work or not its another question..
> 
> 
> did dr nigam stop offering FUT/FUT/biofibre at his clinic?
> ...

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## gc83uk

> didi,
> Not just fut/fibre.. we will stop offering FUE at our clinic from april 2013.
> Fue will only be offered to non affordable patients


 Dr Nigam,

Seen your latest batch of photos on HS, thank you. Photos are not amazing to be honest, but still good enough for the analysis and the quantity of photos is commendable, you've really made the effort.

The links to the photos on HS, do you have larger images than this? The 15 extraction sites in the donor, I suggest you notate the size of the FU for each extraction and the same again for the recipient area assuming you have this information?

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## didi

dr nigam

thats awsome, 

so what exactly will you be offering from April?
Only DonorDoubling in vivo/in vitro? 
WHat else...HM is still in testing phase I guess

What about prices/discounts/special deals for shills/foes(IronMan)

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## drnigams

GC,
Yes i have the larger size images,
Are you asking about the number of single/double/triple grafts per extraction or the size  the punch used for each FU extraction.
I will be uploading videos and more pics of graft bisection and dp cell isolation tomorrow.




> Dr Nigam,
> 
> Seen your latest batch of photos on HS, thank you. Photos are not amazing to be honest, but still good enough for the analysis and the quantity of photos is commendable, you've really made the effort.
> 
> The links to the photos on HS, do you have larger images than this? The 15 extraction sites in the donor, I suggest you notate the size of the FU for each extraction and the same again for the recipient area assuming you have this information?

----------


## 534623

> ... dp cell isolation tomorrow.


 Can you please explain me in detail why are you so obsessed about the Dermal Papilla SHIT?

What do you know about the human hair follicle's dermal papilla at all??

----------


## gc83uk

> GC,
> Yes i have the larger size images,
> Are you asking about the number of single/double/triple grafts per extraction or the size  the punch used for each FU extraction.
> I will be uploading videos and more pics of graft bisection and dp cell isolation tomorrow.


 Can you tell me the difference between extraction sites: 1, 2, 3, 4, 15 and 14 vs the rest? Perhaps extraction 12 too, seems too blurry! Going off this photo http://www.drnigams.net/images/Ratan/large/04.jpg

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## gc83uk

> GC,
> Yes i have the larger size images,
> Are you asking about the number of single/double/triple grafts per extraction or the size  the punch used for each FU extraction.
> I will be uploading videos and more pics of graft bisection and dp cell isolation tomorrow.


 I honestly don't care too much about the size of the punch, that is the least important thing at the moment.

I'm talking about the extraction points, e.g extraction 1 = double? etc

----------


## drnigams

Didi,
I hope i will stop offering HAIR/DONOR DOUBLING by same time next year.
The real thing is HM.
We are missing the dp culture and dp implant in our armory for MPB with stemcell hair multiplication.
At present the missing dermal papilla can be compensated with body hair dermal papilla isolation and injection or a part of follicle like we get in bisection of grafts.
At present i am working on isolating dermal papilla from body hair and injecting the same with donor scalp stemcells as improvement in our present HM.
This option in the interim period should give good results.
As you know Dr Gerd has created the dermal papilla and proto hair in the lab 2 years ago,but have not done clinical trials.
He may shortly join as consultant to my biotech team,than creating a dermal papilla should not be big problem in next 6 months.But we are talking to regulatory authorities here,only if we succeed to convince them ,we can offer to patients or patients will be part of clinical trial for dermal papilla implant,though dermal papilla culture does not have long regulatory issue.
I value the contributions made by you all on speeding up my research,
If not challenged i would have been slow.
Money is not an issue with me,(there are 90 plus people from 3 forums who want to do procedure with me,but i have asked them to wait 6 weeks more as i perfect my dp culture) specially with people who have been helping me in my work including you and GC.
Don't forget i am just 4 and 1/2 month old in any forum and you introduced TBT to myself and vice versa. 



> dr nigam
> 
> thats awsome, 
> 
> so what exactly will you be offering from April?
> Only DonorDoubling in vivo/in vitro? 
> WHat else...HM is still in testing phase I guess
> 
> What about prices/discounts/special deals for shills/foes(IronMan)

----------


## garethbale

> Didi,
> I hope i will stop offering HAIR/DONOR DOUBLING by same time next year.
> The real thing is HM.
> We are missing the dp culture and dp implant in our armory for MPB with stemcell hair multiplication.
> At present the missing dermal papilla can be compensated with body hair dermal papilla isolation and injection or a part of follicle like we get in bisection of grafts.
> At present i am working on isolating dermal papilla from body hair and injecting the same with donor scalp stemcells as improvement in our present HM.
> This option in the interim period should give good results.
> As you know Dr Gerd has created the dermal papilla and proto hair in the lab 2 years ago,but have not done clinical trials.
> He may shortly join as consultant to my biotech team,than creating a dermal papilla should not be big problem in next 6 months.But we are talking to regulatory authorities here,only if we succeed to convince them ,we can offer to patients or patients will be part of clinical trial for dermal papilla implant,though dermal papilla culture does not have long regulatory issue.
> ...


 
Thank you Dr Nigam

I applaud your transparency and hope that you will be successful in your trials.  I would come and have procedure in India if tests prove efficacy in the treatment :Smile:

----------


## drnigams

Yes ,as i mentioned in the earlier post i will be posting pics of each of the 15 graft extracted and bisected.
With counts of extraction 1-double etc.




> I honestly don't care too much about the size of the punch, that is the least important thing at the moment.
> 
> I'm talking about the extraction points, e.g extraction 1 = double? etc

----------


## 534623

> *What do you know about the human hair follicle's dermal papilla at all??*


 Actually, I have a much better question for you:

In your ridiculous "COMPARING DR.NIGAM's & DR.GHO’s DONOR/HAIR DOUBLING FOR/BY HT DOCTORS & MEMBERS" thread at HairSite, you posted another series of photos about "something" or about a "something case report".
Anyway, here is a snippet of the posting I'm talking about**:


So can you please explain me a few things:

1) From which study did you use this scientific pic (red questionmarks)?
2) What's the author's name?
3) What's the graphic all about? What exactly does it explain?
4) In which context is this pic at all with all the other  "doubling" procedure photos you posted in this HS thread (see the snippet of this post above)?

I mean, I could with ease answer YOU all these question - but I think all the other users here are more interested to hear what you have to explain.

Thanks in advance.

----------


## drnigams

GC, pretty good point.
I will show the same to the photographer tomorrow and would get larger size picture with more clarity and mail you the same
,the right side needs to be more clear.  



> Can you tell me the difference between extraction sites: 1, 2, 3, 4, 15 and 14 vs the rest? Perhaps extraction 12 too, seems too blurry! Going off this photo http://www.drnigams.net/images/Ratan/large/04.jpg

----------


## drnigams

Ironman,
mail me at dr.rahul1970@ gmail.com.
We should speak on skype because our discussions will be really long.
I am serious ,and expect the same from you.
May be some interesting research provoking thought ,may come out of our discussion.



> Can you please explain me in detail why are you so obsessed about the Dermal Papilla SHIT?
> 
> What do you know about the human hair follicle's dermal papilla at all??

----------


## 534623

> Ironman,
> mail me at dr.rahul1970@ gmail.com.
> We should speak on skype because our discussions will be really long.


 hmmm, maybe, but I don't think that answering of at least pkt 1) and 2) will be that long. So please answer at least pkt. 1) and 2).

----------


## gc83uk

> Ironman,
> mail me at dr.rahul1970@ gmail.com.
> We should speak on skype because our discussions will be really long.
> I am serious ,and expect the same from you.
> May be some interesting research provoking thought ,may come out of our discussion.


 This would be Epic!

Record the conversation or stream it live!

Purely for educational purposes of course  :Smile:

----------


## 534623

> hmmm, maybe, but I don't think that answering of at least pkt 1) and 2) will be that long. So please answer at least pkt. 1) and 2).


 hmmm, seems you need some help ...  :Big Grin: 



> So can you please explain me a few things:
> 
> 1) From which study did you use this scientific pic (red questionmarks)?
> 2) What's the author's name?
> 3) What's the graphic all about? What exactly does it explain?
> 4) In which context is this pic at all with all the other  "doubling" procedure photos you posted in this HS thread (see the snippet of this post above)?


 The author's name is Dr. S. Millar and published the study (including the pic you used) in 2002.
So what's the papers TITLE?
...and so on and so on.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

I mean, seriously:
You post *unlabeled scientific pics* on your website and hair loss forums, and it seems that you don't even know anything about the pics.

----------


## didi

Iron man

since you are so knowledgable on the subject  of hair loss why dont you offer to work for dr nigam,be his chief advisor for europe?
maybe you can speed up the process and bring the cure earlier

----------


## 534623

> Iron man
> 
> since you are so knowledgable on the subject  of hair loss why dont you offer to work for dr nigam,be his chief advisor for europe?


 That is easy to explain:

I'm incorruptible on one hand, unaffordable on the other hand.

What part of this don't you understand?

I mean, not even the NASA has been able to get me...

----------


## UK Boy

Dear Dr. Nigam

Thank you for all your posts and updates but I but just reading through a thread on Hairsite and I noticed that your were supposed to be visiting the German scientists in Berlin again in March. We're now entering into April and I did not see you mention this trip at all, in fact with all the posts you've been making I do not see that you would have had time  :Smile:  

So did you visit Berlin or not? and if not do you intend to go soon? If you did visit in March what came out of the visit? How is their research coming along? Do they intend to start clinical studies soon? 

Apologies if you did indeed mention the visit somewhere, all I've seen is information about are your case studies.

IThanks in advance for your answer.

----------


## drnigams

UK Boy,
Dr Gerd will be joining our team as a biotech consultant in april.He is the one who created world's microhair follicle or hair germ in the world including dermal papilla for implantation.First we will do mini trial with permission from authorities.If it shows hair regeneration we will go for world's first such clinical trial in india,for hair germ or microfollicle implant.The mini trial at the clinic as medical procedure should start by nov/dec.2013.And we will know early results in 3 to 6 months of injections of microfollicle and than the clinical trials will start.I am also in touch with indian authorities as new bill on clinical research is about to be presented in the indian parliament by this year end.
Till that time the next thing is finishing our dp culture in next 2 months and moving towards dp implant development .
Till that time i am utilising dp cells and body dermal papilla with my autologous stemcell solution.,Which is equally good with some limitation on number of follicle developed on a bald scalp.We will be meeting the german team in scotland hair research conference on may 4th,5th and 6th 2013.
If i get time, may fly to their lab at berlin,Their main focus is no more hair follicle creation as they have already created and now it is for people like us to do trials and get into the market place.They are now into  development of human physiology on a microchip which cam be used for drug testing and speed up molecular development for new drugs.Which is an ambitious project.  




> Dear Dr. Nigam
> 
> Thank you for all your posts and updates but I but just reading through a thread on Hairsite and I noticed that your were supposed to be visiting the German scientists in Berlin again in March. We're now entering into April and I did not see you mention this trip at all, in fact with all the posts you've been making I do not see that you would have had time  
> 
> So did you visit Berlin or not? and if not do you intend to go soon? If you did visit in March what came out of the visit? How is their research coming along? Do they intend to start clinical studies soon? 
> 
> Apologies if you did indeed mention the visit somewhere, all I've seen is information about are your case studies.
> 
> IThanks in advance for your answer.

----------


## drnigams

Gc,Didi,
did you have a look at birthmark pics of nsn showing 8 extraction regrowth out of 9 visible.Also gc kindly mail me or post your mail id so that i can mail you large pics,you had posted your mail id before,i am not getting that post.

----------


## didi

Yes, I have seen the pic on HS,

You sayiing 80&#37; regrowth, 
we need to know what was extracted(type of grafts) and compare it to what is growing back(do 3 hair grafts grow as 3 hair grafts)

also do you know where you planted those grafts in recipient? 

its good to see you are about to crack Ghos technique, 


can you upload the pictures on TBT forum please, HS is pain to navigate

----------


## drnigams

Didi,I have mailed before (large ) pics of donor to NSN including the before pics of birth mark.
Not just 2 follicle grafts but he may get extra regeneration both at donor and recipient because we injected dp cells,dp,activated stemcells,growth factors and ecm.
BTW it is not 80% ,one graft is not in the view in the photo,90% regeneration  is what i am expecting around birth mark and am i waiting for the last extraction and would like to watch it some more time.
Some times due to human error technician may end up extracting the whole graft.You can see the healing which is clean and very quick.
Theoretically donor regeneration has to be 100%,practically due to human error it may range between 90 to 95% donor regeneration.
More imp is to watch the recipient regeneration,because it contains the bisected graft without the dermal papilla and blood supply. 

You sayiing 80% regrowth, 
we need to know what was extracted(type of grafts) and compare it to what is growing back(do 3 hair grafts grow as 3 hair grafts)

also do you know where you planted those grafts in recipient? 

its good to see you are about to crack Ghos technique, 


can you upload the pictures on TBT forum please, HS is pain to navigate[/QUOTE]

----------


## didi

Im impressed with regrowth in donor area(around bmark),
wow..90&#37; regrowth ,it beats hst thats for sure...

I can see power shift...from Holland to India

----------


## UK Boy

Dr. Nigam, sorry to bother you again but I just wanted clarification.

When you talk about doing DP culturing is that the same as what Aderans do? I know you have different regulations hence why you can do this but I to ask how you think you can make this work when Aderans have spent years and years and millions of dollars and still only have a 60% response rate with only 40% getting any sort of cosmetically viable regrowth. What do you plan to do to make it work better?

In terms of going hair germs I wish you the best of luck, it would be excellent if you have success with this and could get the hair germs to sprout in vivo. Will Dr. Gerd be working in your lab in India full time or just consulting from Germany? If you have success what will be the next step? The treatment will be available in India but surely if will be wanted worldwide.

Thanks for your answers Dr. Nigam.

----------


## UK Boy

> Dr. Nigam, sorry to bother you again but I just wanted clarification.
> 
> When you talk about doing DP culturing is that the same as what Aderans do? I know you have different regulations hence why you can do this but I to ask how you think you can make this work when Aderans have spent years and years and millions of dollars and still only have a 60% response rate with only 40% getting any sort of cosmetically viable regrowth. What do you plan to do to make it work better?
> 
> In terms of going hair germs I wish you the best of luck, it would be excellent if you have success with this and could get the hair germs to sprout in vivo. Will Dr. Gerd be working in your lab in India full time or just consulting from Germany? If you have success what will be the next step? The treatment will be available in India but surely if will be wanted worldwide.
> 
> Thanks for your answers Dr. Nigam.


 Also why did you not consider DP culturing years ago when Aderans and Intercytex first mentioned it?

Will you also try culturing Dermal Sheath Cup Cells like Replicel as well or do yoy not think thst those cells will work? Are you allowed to/able to culture DSC cells? 

Sorry if you have previously mentioned all this elsewhere. The cell growth side of your work is of more interest to me than all the hair transplant stuff.

----------


## drnigams

UKBoy,
Aderans are into autologous stemcell solution injections 6weeks apart.
We already have similar solution with similar results like aderans as on today.But these results need to be improved.
Aderans i think but not sure have recently also started dp culturing,i am not sure is the dp culture part of their clinical trial or not.Some one can find out and help me with that.
According to me the number one guy is the german Dr.Gerd than comes aderans,histogen,replica etc. who has already created hair germ in the lab and published that paper.
Since he is not a surgeon neither  they are into clinical trials at present hence the effort has not resulted into commercial availability of hair germ implant.May be most probably i will take their work foraard into clinical trials or if hopefully get a sanction from indian regulators to allow me to use hair germ as part of medical procedure rather than as adrug ,in that case in 2014 we should be able to offer to the patients from our clinic in BOMBAY,India.
Another Scientist i am impressed with and will meet him this year is Takashi Tsuji, a regenerative medicine specialist of Tokyo university of science who created 95% growth on mice after injecting human hair stemcells.
Ofcourse the brilliant UK researcher Jahoda ,whom i am meeting in may2013, he injected  his dp cells on his wife's arm and got 2 growing follicles.
Regarding regulations if you want to launch any stemcell product for mass use in the market...the full process of clinical trials has to be completed but if you are offering in a limited way under monitoring of doctors from ones clinic or hospital than in certain counties it is given permission as a medical procedure rather than  classified as a drug.
We have the clearance from Independent Institutional committee for stemcell research and therapy with minimum manipulation as medical procedure from our specific clinic at mumbai and also clearance from Independent ethics Committee.
We have also register ourself with the regulatory authorities and informed the details of our process ,
we also need to summit all the records of the patients with followup to the regulatory authorities.
All our materials should be sourced from the FDA registered manufacturers or distributors including imported products .Which we comply with the bills and invoices.
Dr Gerd will help us as a consultant shortly and will also visit the mumbai lab when we finalize our contract next month.


With the help


> Dr. Nigam, sorry to bother you again but I just wanted clarification.
> 
> When you talk about doing DP culturing is that the same as what Aderans do? I know you have different regulations hence why you can do this but I to ask how you think you can make this work when Aderans have spent years and years and millions of dollars and still only have a 60% response rate with only 40% getting any sort of cosmetically viable regrowth. What do you plan to do to make it work better?
> 
> In terms of going hair germs I wish you the best of luck, it would be excellent if you have success with this and could get the hair germs to sprout in vivo. Will Dr. Gerd be working in your lab in India full time or just consulting from Germany? If you have success what will be the next step? The treatment will be available in India but surely if will be wanted worldwide.
> 
> Thanks for your answers Dr. Nigam.

----------


## UK Boy

> UKBoy,
> Aderans are into autologous stemcell solution injections 6weeks apart.
> We already have similar solution with similar results like aderans as on today.But these results need to be improved.
> Aderans i think but not sure have recently also started dp culturing,i am not sure is the dp culture part of their clinical trial or not.Some one can find out and help me with that.
> According to me the number one guy is the german Dr.Gerd than comes aderans,histogen,replica etc. who has already created hair germ in the lab and published that paper.
> Since he is not a surgeon neither  they are into clinical trials at present hence the effort has not resulted into commercial availability of hair germ implant.May be most probably i will take their work foraard into clinical trials or if hopefully get a sanction from indian regulators to allow me to use hair germ as part of medical procedure rather than as adrug ,in that case in 2014 we should be able to offer to the patients from our clinic in BOMBAY,India.
> Another Scientist i am impressed with and will meet him this year is Takashi Tsuji, a regenerative medicine specialist of Tokyo university of science who created 95% growth on mice after injecting human hair stemcells.
> Ofcourse the brilliant UK researcher Jahoda ,whom i am meeting in may2013, he injected  his dp cells on his wife's arm and got 2 growing follicles.
> Regarding regulations if you want to launch any stemcell product for mass use in the market...the full process of clinical trials has to be completed but if you are offering in a limited way under monitoring of doctors from ones clinic or hospital than in certain counties it is given permission as a medical procedure rather than  classified as a drug.
> ...


 All sounds very interesting and exciting Dr. Nigam. If your work with Dr. Gerd is successful it will be a huge leap forward and bring to hair loss sufferers a treatment that was not expected for another 10 years. You seem to good to be true Dr. Nigam and that worries me si I won't get my hopes up too much but I think that what you preach is very true - we will beat hair loss by working TOGETHER. By getting in touch with the other doctors who are workung on this problem and trying to work with them you are taking the industry forward hugely. It's ridiculous that it's taken someone so long to do this.

----------


## Boldy

> All sounds very interesting and exciting Dr. Nigam. If your work with Dr. Gerd is successful it will be a huge leap forward and bring to hair loss sufferers a treatment that was not expected for another 10 years. You seem to good to be true Dr. Nigam and that worries me si I won't get my hopes up too much but I think that what you preach is very true - we will beat hair loss by working TOGETHER. By getting in touch with the other doctors who are workung on this problem and trying to work with them you are taking the industry forward hugely. It's ridiculous that it's taken someone so long to do this.


 Good to see someone has the balls  to step forward from the already well paid ht solutions, and trying something new that is the cure. (if its in real world as nice as mice/ paper)

 :Stick Out Tongue: 

@ nigams, arent the germcells created by 3d culture by putting dp and epithelial cells together? this procedure should allow new hair where its never excited before (from nw0 to nv negative for example) I remember a study where they combined epthelial cells + dp cells to create hair on a mice ear.
where DP cells alone couldn't do it since there where no KC cells.

Important to always do *PCR screening* to check for mutations, although they were not found in some studies even after 90 passages, its still a must.

regarding the procedure you are doing nigams, there is nothing special about it, its just basic cell culture/ biology if you ask me, so I wonder why the **** we had to wait all these years, while this procedure is known for at least 15 years.....

it makes me thinking that drug companies are behind this slow process....

If you bring this forward, even the haters on this forum will love you,

I'm sure  :Big Grin:

----------


## drnigams

Boldy,
Your knowledge of the subject fascinates me. 
Can you mail me the links regarding 3d culturing studies for hair germ creation.I  had discussed 3d culture with Dr Gerd.
We do culture Keratinocyte stemcells present in the bulge of follicle.
Can you elaborate more on the KC cell requirement for hair germ formation.
Regarding PCR screening ,yes we do process the samples in thermocycler and watch cells in GELDOC for any mutation.
You are right any biotec will understand regarding HM cell culturing is nothing big,and the real challenge is ahead to create  potent dp culture,dp implant and hair germ invitro creation and regrowth of the same on human scalp.




> Good to see someone has the balls  to step forward from the already well paid ht solutions, and trying something new that is the cure. (if its in real world as nice as mice/ paper)
> 
> 
> 
> @ nigams, arent the germcells created by 3d culture by putting dp and epithelial cells together? this procedure should allow new hair where its never excited before (from nw0 to nv negative for example) I remember a study where they combined epthelial cells + dp cells to create hair on a mice ear.
> where DP cells alone couldn't do it since there where no KC cells.
> Regarding PCR screening ,yes we do process the samples in thermocycler and watch GELDOC for any mutation.
> You are right any biotec will understand regarding HM cell culturing is nothing big,and the real challenge is ahead to create  potent dp culture,dp implant and hair germ invitro creation and regrowth of the same on human scalp.
> 
> ...

----------


## 534623

> Ofcourse the brilliant UK researcher Jahoda ,whom i am meeting in may2013, he injected  his dp cells on his wife's arm and got 2 growing follicles.


 Dr. Nigam,
your knowledge of the subject - doesn't fascinate me.

----------


## drnigams

I am hungry for more facts ,
Ironman go ahead give more facts about jahoda's work,dermal papilla cells/potent culture and it's potential to create follicle,you seem to think that only cd34+ alone can create new follicles.
Talk about solutions ,let's help each other and work together.I know you know all and you won't need anybody's help..
By the way i will ask jahoda himself when i meet him in first week of MAY2013 and learn more about about his experience of effects and potential of dp cells/culture and doubling.
Ironman share your wisdom and help the industry to find MPB cure.
What do you suggest should the researchers focus on to create hair germ or in any other way create new follicles.You know doublings are interim procedures till we reach at successful invivo or invitro HM.




> Dr. Nigam,
> your knowledge of the subject - doesn't fascinate me.

----------


## didi

Whats the deal with dr Jahoda?
How come he hasnt progressed much since his discoveries

----------


## UK_

Iron_Man, why are you having such a tough time accepting your defeat? 

Take it like a man dude, move on!  

Dr Nigam is a hair loss surgeon working with some of the best names in the industry, and you're.... some loon on a hair loss forum?

----------


## drnigams

Didi,
Researchers like Jahoda ,Gerd,Takashi and others are lab researchers and  they  it leave for applied researchers like us,aderans to work on it clinically and offer to the  the patients or sell their research to companies like aderans to monetize it.Applied researchers are key to integrate various different aspects of  research for a new invention which should also be commercially viable. 
Didi, basically the work of HT will today or tomorrow shift from HT doctors to Biotechs.
Because of this reason not lot of  HT docs are interested to research on stemcells and even if they want unfortunately they are not trained in the field of biotechnology and they will need help of biotechs and will also need a lab.
Remember we SURGEONS LOVE SURGERY, without surgical process most of us feel incomplete, with few exceptions.
On the other hand biotechs can't inject anything on apatient as they are not licensed doctors and they will need help of HT docs for procedure and clinical follow up unless they are capable enough financially to risk in expensive clinical trials.
That's why even at the age of43 ,i enrolled for masters in biotech and finished my masters last year which definitely helps me
 integrate the experience and knowledge as an HT doctor with the tissue engineering expertise  , and ofcourse having a  euippedFDA certified lab and clinic with HT patients together,  does help .
I am just taking forward  my thoughts and the research of great scientists forward by  studying their published studies,interacting with them and applying some commonsense. 

Lot of these researchers are not entrepreneurs but are  employees and have no direct benefit commercially,many do research publish and sell their research and they may or may not have know how, as how to monetize their research and fund it further.
Unlike aderans who while developing on stem cell HM have already acquired bosley HT clinics ,they can use those clinics for trials and feeback and will have access to ready patients in 90 clinics across AMERICA when their HM product/process hits the market, thus they can survive with long term research with monetizing process in place unlike other talented scientists but without commercial vision.  



> Whats the deal with dr Jahoda?
> How come he hasnt progressed much since his discoveries

----------


## didi

dr nigam
 thats where enteprenuers like yourself come in to take care of applied science..
You could employ those scientists to work for you company, they dont have to physicaly relocate...you need some real brains..fast

I wonder why dr gho didnt make much progress in the past 8 years, he came up with HST which in reality is a form of FUE but nothing since then..he calls its stem cell transplantation but you could call FUE stemcell transplant...
im sure he tried to deliver true HM but didnt work in practice and now his focus is HSI..still not HM..just another flavour of HST

I lost hope in Aderans, i still remembr bout 6 years ago they said on their website to deliver HM before the end of decade(2010)...now it is 2013 ans still nothing..
i think you have better chances than aderans, 
5 years  from now is the best case scenario..in  meantime we need cheap scarless doubling procedure

----------


## gc83uk

With all due respect to Dr Nigam he has still proved nothing yet.

It's a shame it was only 15 grafts instead of the suggested 50.

It would also be good to get NSN after pic of his donor, but this is really his decision on whether he will be wanting to share or not.

I hope you can document soon a large area of extractions, just like that great picture you took of NSN 468 extractions which you circled near his left ear. If we could do something like that again and follow it up with an after photo then it will be conclusive for me.

Regarding the invivo and invitro, are you suggesting that the invitro brings better results in the donor and recipient than the invivo?

What is the differences in terms of time for the procedures perhaps with some examples. And the price of each procedure is the same?

The invitro you need to take a larger punch, is that correct?

The only reason you would do invivo would be if the patient was concerned about scarring of the invitro? But surely you would tell them after the injections there would be no scarring right?

Please confirm the above. Also please paragraph your answers or use line breaks, thanks.

----------


## drnigams

I hope , i can get in the UK scientist Jahoda as our lab consultant,Gerd will be with us from next month , in june I will visit Tokyo university of science to meet Takashi Tsuji, and i have a gut feeling max. by early next year we should be able to offer hair germ injections to volunteers of clinical trial,and follow the early results same time next year(just a gut feeling or the critics will come down heavily), 
Which will be possible, only if i can convince Indian authorities to allow the hair germ injections as a part of medical procedure and not drug.
Although regulatory challenge will be tough for hair germ even in India.
But our close friends of forum can be the volunteers of clinical trial have benefit from it if they wish after thoroughly understanding the pros and cons.

Didi, today a very interesting observation came to my mind.
Let me share it with you for your neutral comments.
Today I measured safe donor area of 3 patients(nw7) which was on the avg. 40 cms in length and 8cms in width(avg. of sides and back of scalp).
Now on the avg. if nw7 have 40 grafts per sqcms at donor.
We will have 40 x320(40x8)= 12800grafts from safe donor area.
If we perform invivo hair/donor doubling  from the donor (with my new hair ultrasound  guidance machine)
We can get all 12800 partial grafts from the donor with donor undamaged, with intact dermal papilla with its blood supply which will regrow back within a month.
So now we can have 12800 grafts for recipient,
worst come worst if if we achieve 70% regeneration at the recipient , we will now have 70% of 12800grafts=8960 regenerated grafts at the recipient.
Repeat this procedure after 6 months and you have ......grafts after 6 months ,so this is how donor regenerates ..and we keep using it.
If some(nw7) has a density of 50 at the donor than in one sitting he can be converted to nw2.
This thought came to me today as i got access to special hair ultrasound for USG guided(there is only one such ultrasound machine with my radiologist friend in mumbai) doubling procedure yesterday ,wherein now i can SEE an extract partial follicle from the level i want from the donor invivo with the bulge and part of outer root sheeth instead of blind procedure of invivo donor doubling as on today.
Plus the booster of stemcells,prp,ecm,dpcells,dp injections.
I will start doing hair ultrasound guided procedure from next week( ours i believe should be the first and only clinic using USG hair for extractions and implantations at exact positions and reduce transections)  and than i will do a small patch test and subsequently go for one case with nw7 to nw2 documented study.

  QUOTE=didi;114233]dr nigam
 thats where enteprenuers like yourself come in to take care of applied science..
You could employ those scientists to work for you company, they dont have to physicaly relocate...you need some real brains..fast

I wonder why dr gho didnt make much progress in the past 8 years, he came up with HST which in reality is a form of FUE but nothing since then..he calls its stem cell transplantation but you could call FUE stemcell transplant...
im sure he tried to deliver true HM but didnt work in practice and now his focus is HSI..still not HM..just another flavour of HST

I lost hope in Aderans, i still remembr bout 6 years ago they said on their website to deliver HM before the end of decade(2010)...now it is 2013 ans still nothing..
i think you have better chances than aderans, 
5 years  from now is the best case scenario..in  meantime we need cheap scarless doubling procedure[/QUOTE]

----------


## didi

are you suggesting you can extract 12 000 grafts from NW7 in one session?

i think 12k procedure will be to large and there is concern grafts will not grow as good, in bot areas.

Plus possibility of scarring...bc you taking so many grafts it will be traumatic for body to heal.

I mean, you can try as im certain you could find people in India who would be willing to volonteer for such a mega procedure as long as you dont charge

dr gho limits his procedures to less than 1500 grafts on average, i feel he is been overly cautious..and waiting time of 9 months to 1 year is unecesarry in my opinion since hairs regenerate withing 1 month after procedure..Ghos technique is extremly time consuming+pricey..no wonder it never got popular 

*first thing we should do is to find out exact regeneration/regrowth rate and that can be acomplished by couple of small 50 graft tests
Once we know that its easy to play with number of grafts and time between procedures.*

----------


## drnigams

Gc 
 15 graft test will take to time to prove the exact confirmed % regeneration,i have mentioned the same on HS, as we both are aware the graft has been taken out from the scalp and has been removed from it's blood and nerve supply.Some may shed now, some later...Out of the 15 grafts ,a5 grafts will have proximal portion with visible shaft which may or may not shed and we can't say with confirmation which one and which one not.
But the other bisected part which is growing did not have visible shaft , and if we can see more than 50% grafts ,the over and above the 50% are definitely regeneration even on 6th day.Kindly have alook at the videomicroscopic pics which will be posted shortly and revert, what regen you can see with confirmation and what regen is doubtful as it is too early to expect.

I had to do 15 grafts  because it was easy to document with tatto,if you want i can increase it to50 within the tatto mark on the same guy may be with invivo technique.
I am also thinking to use his tatto and do a patch test of invivi technique on the same guy  just outside the horizontal tattoo line.
But you should help me in documentation and marking, it takes hell lot of time instructing the photo grapher,graphic guy and my secretary.
Why don't you or did come for the patch testand document for me.
Good news is i have enrolled to more forum members for megasession of doubling,one will come april end and other in may(from usa) and they both have agreed to document their cases.3more forum viewers are coming in april but they won't document and don't want to take pics.BTW they are paying full amount,so that i can use in my research back.
Let me see a patient and respond to your other querry on invitro and invivo hair doubling.




> With all due respect to Dr Nigam he has still proved nothing yet.
> 
> It's a shame it was only 15 grafts instead of the suggested 50.
> 
> It would also be good to get NSN after pic of his donor, but this is really his decision on whether he will be wanting to share or not.
> 
> I hope you can document soon a large area of extractions, just like that great picture you took of NSN 468 extractions which you circled near his left ear. If we could do something like that again and follow it up with an after photo then it will be conclusive for me.
> 
> Regarding the invivo and invitro, are you suggesting that the invitro brings better results in the donor and recipient than the invivo?
> ...

----------


## Arashi

On the one hand Dr Nigams, I love a lot of what you said and a lot of what you're saying makes sense. For example adding 'eyes' (or 'ears' in this case) to performing the in vivo extraction using ultrasound does seem like a very interesting idea. It does give me hope you're serious about all this. 

On the other hand you keep failing miserably at proving your technique(s). Like Gc83uk noted, you did a nice job at circling NSN's donor after extraction. We would need a photo like that pre-op as well and if NSN would shoot his post-op pictures himself in that same way, it would be very easy to at least monitor donor regrowth. Monitoring a small section like that mole proves nothing cause that section is WAY to easy to cheat (if your intentions were bad). Same goes for doing any test on staff members. That might be interesting for your own research, but as proof to us it's quite useless.

----------


## Arashi

> .Ghos technique is extremly time consuming+pricey..no wonder it never got popular


 Really ? What makes you think Gho is not popular ? Go ahead and call them and tell them you want an appointment within 4 weeks and tell us what they said ok ?

Didi really, you're by far the biggest troll I've ever seen on these forums. All you do is bash Gho, hail Nigams and for what ? You're not even interested in getting any procedure done yourself.

----------


## gc83uk

I feel as if Didi is ruining Dr Nigams credibility, it's a shame, the constant Gho bashing is distracting.

----------


## 534623

> dr nigam
>  thats where enteprenuers like yourself come in to take care of applied science..
> You could employ those scientists to work for you company, they dont have to physicaly relocate...you need some real brains..fast
> I wonder why dr gho didnt make much progress in the past 8 years, [B]he came up with HST which in reality is a form of FUE but nothing since then..he calls its stem cell transplantation but you could call FUE stemcell transplant...
> im sure he tried to deliver true HM but didnt work in practice and now his focus is HSI..still not HM..just another flavour of HST
> 
> I lost hope in Aderans, i still remembr bout 6 years ago they said on their website to deliver HM before the end of decade(2010)...now it is 2013 ans still nothing..
> i think you have better chances than aderans, 
> 5 years  from now is the best case scenario..*in  meantime we need cheap scarless doubling procedure*


 Yeah - Dr. Gho thought the same in the past ...

...and now *he knows* it will be the best thing for *many* more years to come - and that's exactly what he found out during the past 8 years. lol

----------


## Arashi

> I feel as if Didi is ruining Dr Nigams credibility, it's a shame, the constant Gho bashing is distracting.


 At least he's ruining his own credibility with all of his pointless lies (now all of a sudden Gho is not 'popular' ?), his pointless, factless hailing of Nigams and when asked when he's going to get his own procedure done he just never answers that question. I really don't think I've ever seen a bigger troll on these forums than this guy. And he's the one defending Dr Nigams ? With such friends you don't need enemies ...

----------


## didi

considering gho is the only clinic who offers HST(stem cell tranplant) procedure we can all agree that it is  not popular..

if fue/strip was offered by only 1 clinic im sure there would be 5 years plus  waiting list.. :Smile: 

cant beat that

----------


## didi

just pointing out the facts guys...keep it civilized, no personal insults pls..

----------


## Arashi

> considering gho is the only clinic who offers HST procedure we can all agree that it is  not popular..
> 
> if fue/strip was offered by only 1 clinic im sure there would be 5 years plus  waiting list..
> 
> cant beat that


 So the fact that Gho's waiting list is 2-3 months (and that is only if you're not interested in which of the 4 clinics you get treated) instead of 5 years means he's not popular ? When I contacted one of the most famous FUE clinics in the world, they told me I could get an appointment within 3 weeks.

----------


## Arashi

> just pointing out the facts guys


 OH COME ON !!!! If there's anybody not even remotely interested in facts it's you.

----------


## didi

FUE/fut is offered by 1000s of Drs.....hair multiplication-hst is offered by single clinic...

since they market it as hair multiplication im not impressed with waiting list..also Jakarta clinic can be booked 1-2 weeks ahead, confirmed.


arashi you are fanboy but you shd know there is something fishy abt this hair multiplication claims by dr gho..

if it was real he would have monopolized HT market by now and would have clinic in every city..and doctors would be lining up to get trained for 60ks..bargain...even dr Woods said its bargain and he would be willing to pay if its real..

----------


## gc83uk

> just pointing out the facts guys...keep it civilized, no personal insults pls..


 Why don't you take your own advice pal

----------


## 534623

> considering gho is the only clinic who offers HST(stem cell tranplant) procedure we can all agree that it is  not popular..


 IF Dr. Gho would cut the costs per HST procedure in half - I guess it would be still too pricey for girls like you, but definitely not for those who are seriously interested in hair transplants.

----------


## drnigams

GC,
Regarding your querry on invitro versus invivo.
The last post was typed very fast, as i was multitasking.
As i was missing the visibility in invivo before but not anymore with the access to hair ultrasound and doppler.
Invivo will become preferred choice, as against when it was blind (even fue is blind and fut is partially blind).
Why because now i can bisect the graft at exact level where i want.
Invivo will now have only advantages
1)the most important part(do no harm),the donor cannot be damaged and will regrow in totality(except if the doc accidentally takes out the graft with the root), since the dermal papilla with its blood supply is intact(same what happens when a girl pluck's her eyebrow every month and it regrows with same diameter ).
So now we can have unlimited donor every 4 to 6 months.
I  benevolently diiffer with didi's observation that some people say that blood supply will be compromised if too much donor is extracted.
We can always compare with 30cms x1.5cms strip(45sqcms) removal by FUT surgeons, wherein the blood vessels and nerves are totally cut off.
Still they all redo second fut after  6 months.
Specially if we can use less invasion by not going too deep and plucking the graft out under USG.
We will see how many maximum grafts are safe to extract in one session.
Not to forget the boosters for wound healing like stemcells,ecm,angiogenesis growth factors we use.

----------


## Arashi

> arashi you are fanboy


 Maybe I'm a bit of a fanboy. But if so, that's only because HST undeniably is the best thing out there. No other technique out there has proven donor regrowth. I'm just extremely happy this is available right now and I can get hair transplanted without sacrificing most of my donor.




> but you shd know there is something fishy abt this hair multiplication claims by dr gho.. if it was real he would have monopolized HT market by now and would have clinic in every city..and doctors would be lining up to get trained for 60ks..bargain...even dr Woods said its bargain and he would be willing to pay if its real..


 When I called them for my procedure I told them I wanted dr Gho himself to operate on me. They said fine, but you'll have to wait 5 months. I then said, ok, what about another doctor. They checked their schedule and I could get an appointment in Maastricht within 11 weeks.

If you had gotten a HST yourself you'd understand how extremely difficult the procedure is to do. The drills are extremely small. When my technician took a break, another technician took over (still in training) but her success-to-failure ratio was horrible. You need years of experience to become good at it. That is what is keeping Gho back at opening clinics at the speed of light.

----------


## 534623

> With all due respect to Dr Nigam he has still proved nothing yet.
> 
> It's a shame* it was only 15 grafts instead of the suggested 50*.


 ...and as far as I remember - he could only find one 3-hair graft.

didi must be pissed ...  :Big Grin:

----------


## didi

'If you had gotten a HST yourself you'd understand how extremely difficult the procedure is to do'

Thats not true, hasci tech extracts 300-400 grafts per hour...on par with FUE+no magnifying needed..naked eye is good..so how the hell can it be more difficult than FUE?
I know hasci told you its so difficult...

dr woods is extracting follicles with  magnification and it takes him 2-3 hours to get 500 grafts but you know all his grafts will grow..the rest of procedure is exactly the same as fue

----------


## Arashi

> 'If you had gotten a HST yourself you'd understand how extremely difficult the procedure is to do'
> 
> Thats not true, hasci tech extracts 300-400 grafts per hour...on par with FUE+no magnifying needed..naked eye is good..so how the hell can it be more difficult than FUE?


 I'm really getting tired of you Didi. Is it really that difficult to understand that the smaller the drill is, the more difficult it will be to extract a graft ?

----------


## didi

> ...and as far as I remember - he could only find one 3-hair graft.
> 
> didi must be pissed ...


 

Next test I will instruct dr nigam to extract 50 3 hair grafts and we will monitor both areas.

----------


## Arashi

> Next test I will instruct dr nigam to extract 50 3 hair grafts and we will monitor both areas.


 And also instruct him he'd need to do it on an independent person, if you want us to take the results seriously.

----------


## 534623

> 'If you had gotten a HST yourself you'd understand how extremely difficult the procedure is to do'
> 
> Thats not true, hasci tech extracts 300-400 grafts per hour...on par with FUE+no magnifying needed..naked eye is good..so how the hell can it be more difficult than FUE?
> I know hasci told you its so difficult...
> 
> dr woods is extracting follicles with  magnification and it takes him 2-3 hours to get 500 grafts but you know all his grafts will grow..the rest of procedure is exactly the same as fue


 Sure, you're THE extractions expert ...  :Big Grin: 

And NO, I didn't know that all Woods-grafts grow. Do you have any proof? I guess no ...

----------


## drnigams

Arashi,
Ask im,donor regen is not an issue with my invivo technique as the dermal papilla is intact with it's blood and nerve supply.
Thereal thing which you should focus to monitor is recipient, and i have posted good clear pics of recipient.
In nsn case i was little unorthodox, wherein i placed him in left lateral position so that one doc extract the other bisects and the third implants ,thus graft will have minimum time to be outside scalp.
Photographer took regular standard pics when we place the patient in supine like other patients and focussed on back of the scalp.
He had already done one procedure in the same area which i came to know later or else i would have taken the partial grafts from the back of the scalp.
And please arashi, lets stop bashing anyone , i have stopped even after instigation,and focus on contributing to cure.
We all are hair to get our follicles back or else there are enough interesting things to do before we die(i hope you watch this show on Discovery network)

And by the way we do 150 transplants per month(ask nsn), even if we do 300 shortly by dec2013 hopefully, patients will be able to get appointment within a week.




> On the one hand Dr Nigams, I love a lot of what you said and a lot of what you're saying makes sense. For example adding 'eyes' (or 'ears' in this case) to performing the in vivo extraction using ultrasound does seem like a very interesting idea. It does give me hope you're serious about all this. 
> 
> On the other hand you keep failing miserably at proving your technique(s). Like Gc83uk noted, you did a nice job at circling NSN's donor after extraction. We would need a photo like that pre-op as well and if NSN would shoot his post-op pictures himself in that same way, it would be very easy to at least monitor donor regrowth. Monitoring a small section like that mole proves nothing cause that section is WAY to easy to cheat (if your intentions were bad). Same goes for doing any test on staff members. That might be interesting for your own research, but as proof to us it's quite useless.

----------


## Arashi

> Do you have any proof?


 Asking didi to produce proof is like asking a chimpanzee to explain Einstein's relativity theory: nothing will happen.

----------


## gc83uk

> Next test I will instruct dr nigam to extract 50 3 hair grafts and we will monitor both areas.


 Instruct? Give me a break. English clearly isn't your first language.

----------


## didi

I dont have any proof abt Woods but everyone knows he is one of the best when it comes to yield with small numbers of grafts.

We need to find someone who is willing to travel to india...
*if he gets 40+ 3 hair grafts to grow in recipient+donor....im buying tickets to delhi*

----------


## Arashi

> Arashi,
> Ask im,donor regen is not an issue with my invivo technique as the dermal papilla is intact with it's blood and nerve supply.
> Thereal thing which you should focus to monitor is recipient, and i have posted good clear pics of recipient.
> In nsn case i was little unorthodox, wherein i placed him in left lateral position so that one doc extract the other bisects and the third implants ,thus graft will have minimum time to be outside scalp.
> Photographer took regular standard pics when we place the patient in supine like other patients and focussed on back of the scalp.
> He had already done one procedure in the same area which i came to know later or else i would have taken the partial grafts from the back of the scalp.
> And please arashi, lets stop bashing anyone , i have stopped even after instigation,and focus on contributing to cure.
> We all are hair to get our follicles back or else there are enough interesting things to do before we die(i hope you watch this show on Discovery network)
> 
> And by the way we do 150 transplants per month(ask nsn), even if we do 300 shortly by dec2013 hopefully, patients will be able to get appointment within a week.


 I'm not bashing you Dr Nigams. I'm just saying you haven't provided any proof at all. If you want us to take you seriously, then THAT is what you will have to do. All these words about ultrasound etc sound very interesting but it won't make me even consider to come to your clinic. Proof on the other hand will.

----------


## Arashi

> Thats what i heard anyway


 And that is all Didi needs to become a fanboy ...

----------


## gc83uk

> I dont have any proof abt Woods but everyone knows he is one of the best when it comes to yield with small numbers of grafts.Thats what i heard anyway, never saw single bad result from him.
> 
> 
> We need to find someone who is willing to travel to india...
> *if he gets 40+ 3 hair grafts to grow in recipient+donor....im buying tickets to delhi*


 OK Dr Nigam, it's there in black and white. All you have to do is get 40 x 3 hair grafts from a donor area and show 40 x 3 hair grafts in the recipient and Didi will come to you.

At least we now know, it took a few days, but we got there in the end  :Big Grin:

----------


## didi

> Instruct? Give me a break. English clearly isn't your first language.


 Spot on GC, its my 4th language :EEK!: 

Btw, how bt you provide me those photos we talked abt  but it never happen?I wanna analize your recipinet area

----------


## drnigams

Have a look at the video microscopic  much clearer pic to be posted shortly at HS tonight which is infront of me (just 7th day pic) and tomorrow recipient.
Lets see who will be off.

114281]...and as far as I remember - he could only find one 3-hair graft.

didi must be pissed ...  :Big Grin: [/QUOTE]

----------


## Arashi

> Have a look at the video microscopic  much clearer pic to be posted shortly at HS tonight which is infront of me (just 7th day pic) and tomorrow recipient.


 Dr Nigams, I don't think most people are taking your 15 graft test seriously. Doing it on a staff member gave you tons of way to cheat. It might be interesting for your own research, but to us (at least to me) it means nothing.

You need to do a 50 graft test on an independent patient. And if succesful, Didi will come to your clinic too  :Smile:

----------


## drnigams

Don't worry didi, just post from hs to tbt the videomicroscopic pics which i will post in 15 min , lets hear from im...
 How sad im is praying this technique doesn't work...



> Next test I will instruct dr nigam to extract 50 3 hair grafts and we will monitor both areas.

----------


## gc83uk

> Spot on GC, its my 4th language
> 
> Btw, how bt you provide me those photos we talked abt  but it never happen?I wanna analize your recipinet area


 I can tell it's your 4th language.

What is the point of me showing you more photos? You don't answer anything on here about yourself, so why should I go to all the effort for someone like you?

You show no gratitude whatsoever. You were once a sound person, but now you've turned in to a complete gimp!

As for asking to keep it civilised, do you have any idea how hypocritical that is coming from you? You bash Gho constantly, even calling him a hermit and also asking for people to be banned. That is *Pathetic* behaviour, call yourself a man?

You'll never see me bash Gho or Nigam.  The only time I had a problem with Dr Nigam was when he posted those outrageous photoshopped phots.

If I was Dr Nigam I'd be asking you to calm down, your fanatical behaviour is making him sound too good to be true.  That isn't helping him.

----------


## 534623

> I dont have any proof abt Woods but everyone knows he is one of the best when it comes to yield with small numbers of grafts.


 Why did you edit/remove the part "I've never seen a bad result"??

Anyway - here is THE reason, why you never can see bad results ...

----------


## gc83uk

Yes Dr Nigam, please don't waste anymore time talking about the 15 graft test.

Please put your effort in to a much bigger test on a forum member.  I think Didi should be this candidate, I know Arashi doesn't agree because he thinks he'll be biased, but it will be great viewing.

Get it done correctly and we will all say your were right all along.

----------


## Arashi

> I know Arashi doesn't agree because he thinks he'll be biased


 For sure. I'm not sure what happened to Didi. He started out as somebody sincerely interested in all this. Now it's like it's become personal or something. He keeps talking about how Dr Nigams is going to 'crush' dr Gho, like it's become some kind of game for him and it's now all about 'winning' that came to him. I'm afraid he's even willing to lie and cheat now, to 'win' that game.

----------


## didi

IM 

every doc has skeletons in their closet, even dr woods..actually I ve seen in person some bad BHT cases from some of these top docs and that put me off considering BHT...but thats bht, 
thats why i dont get why gho and nigam do bht if multiplication/doubling is real?

GC
we need someone who is willing to fly to Delhi to get 50 graft test done, it cant be me as Im too biased in nigams favour(according to some of you)

----------


## gc83uk

> For sure. I'm not sure what happened to Didi. He started out as somebody sincerely interested in all this. Now it's like it's become personal or something. He keeps talking about how Dr Nigams is going to 'crush' dr Gho, like it's become some kind of game for him and it's now all about 'winning' that came. I'm afraid he's even willing to lie and cheat now, to 'win' that game.


 I know, it's so sad. 

Surely we want them both to succeed. 

He says things like Nigam will be the leader and Gho will go bankrupt (or along those lines), which is ludicrous or perhaps just wishful thinking by Didi.

----------


## Arashi

> I know, it's so sad. 
> 
> Surely we want them both to succeed.


 Exactly !! If Dr Nigam can produce solid proof of a procedure that is BETTER than Gho's, than I'm really going to consider going to India (although honestly I still don't feel too good about these growth factors etc). But I'd salute Nigams for sure.

Didi on the other hand wants to see dr Nigams succeed AND Gho fail. That's just pathetic.

----------


## didi

guys 
.i dont care who wins this battle as long as we have access to cheap  doubling/hm ..gho will never beat nigam on price 

competition is healthy, whoever wins it will be us patients who will win..

im not the only on who dislikes the way gho behaves, besides im against monopolizing market...any market for that mattr..


imagine having VW or ford as the only automaker in da world..that woulkd suck..boring modles, high prices....customer lose...you get my drift

----------


## Arashi

> guys 
> .i dont care who wins this battle as long as we have access to cheap  doubling/hm ..gho will never beat nigam on price 
> 
> competition is healthy, whoever wins it will be us patients who will win..
> 
> im not the only on who dislikes the way gho behaves, besides im against monopolizing market...any market for that mattr..
> 
> 
> imagine having VW or ford as the only automaker in da world..that woulkd suck..boring modles, high prices....customer lose...you get my drift


 EVERYBODY here is interested in having more options than just Gho. YOU on the other hand are interested in a world which ONLY consists of Dr Nigams, because you seem to hate Gho (for reasons that are really beyond me).

----------


## didi

i dont hate anyone, im only encouriging competition...you see gho offered free test bc nigams has been offering us free procedures/tests...

gho knows he has to match dr nigam...

now gho camp will be feeling the heat coming from east...

----------


## 534623

> considering BHT...but thats bht, 
> thats why i dont get why gho and nigam do bht if multiplication/doubling is real?


 Dr. Gho is doing body hair transplants (mostly) for burn victims only who don't have a "donor area" as such (or simply not enough) anymore on the back of their heads - with better success than others due to his special preservation medium.

Dr. Nigam is doing BHT because it sounds good on hair transplant doctors website.




> GC
> we need someone who is willing to fly to Delhi to get 50 graft test done, it cant be me as Im too biased in nigams favour(according to some of you)


 I thought we have found the perfect candidate already?

It's YOU!

So start to post good high quality photos of your donor and recipient area!
Thanks in advance.

----------


## gc83uk

> guys 
> .i dont care who wins this battle as long as we have access to cheap  doubling/hm ..gho will never beat nigam on price 
> 
> competition is healthy, whoever wins it will be us patients who will win..
> 
> im not the only on who dislikes the way gho behaves, besides im against monopolizing market...any market for that mattr..
> 
> 
> imagine having VW or ford as the only automaker in da world..that woulkd suck..boring modles, high prices....customer lose...you get my drift


 
That's the thing though Didi. No single person will win or lose this battle.

There are doctors still doing FUT for god sake, have they lost the battle? NO

There will always be people willing to have an FUT because either they don't know better or don't want to travel to Europe or India.

The market is big enough for loads of players and as a consumer I encourage that.

I would never make predictions such as Company A will lose/bankrupt/whatever.  

Some people actually prefer to spend more money because they think the cheaper option is too cheap and therefore it can't work or it's inferior. This happens all the time.

Quite often I'll be shopping for something and if I'm not sure between option A/B, I'll often just pick the more expensive option.

----------


## Arashi

> i dont hate anyone, im only encouriging competition...you see gho offered free test bc nigams has been offering us free procedures/tests...


 I'm getting SO tired of your lies. You know as well as I do, that when I asked Kristel about the 50 graft test, she replied very swiftly, wanted to have our guy come in to check his scalp and after she saw him, she replied that she was willing to participate AND do it all for free. Only THEN dr Nigams also suddenly came up with his 15 graft test. This had nothing to do with Kristel's decision.

Difference is of course that we have an INDEPENDENT patient, whereas Nigams did the test on his staff member which basically invalidates his whole test, because of the tons of options that gave him to cheat.

Anyway, I really don't know why you keep making up these lies.





> now gho camp will be feeling the heat coming from east...


 Again, in your pathetic little world, this is some kind of competition between the 'gho camp' and you. It's not. We all want dr Nigams to succeed and we all want better/cheaper options than just Gho. Is that really that hard to understand ?

----------


## 534623

> gho knows he has to match dr nigam....


 I guess Dr. Gho would be thrilled if he could find or see something with what he could match-up his results - but he is completely unable to find or to see something ... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## 534623

> guys 
> .i dont care who wins this battle as long as we have access to cheap  doubling/hm ..*gho will never beat nigam on price*


 Seems even nigams pricing can't motivate you to buy a nigam-doubling-procedure.  :Big Grin: 

How pathetic ...

----------


## drnigams

Kindly find below clearer Donor Regeneration pics of 15 G In-Vitro Hair Doubling Patch Test (Day 7)

We have extracted 15 grafts from the donor area and were bisected to make it to 30 grafts. 15 grafts were implanted back into the donor area and 15 grafts were implanted into the recipient area.

There were 8 Single grafts, 6 Double grafts & 1 Triple grafts, so 23 follicles were used in this procedure.


































> Dear Friends,
> 
> As requested by GC and few others at TBT presenting before picture taken today 28th March 2013, for 50 graft patch test for in Vitro donor doubling on this MPB case. GC has also requested the same from HST and want to compare the two technique regarding the donor and recipient regeneration. 
> 
> Any other modification required in this case study, feel free to communicate to me.
> 
> Hope GC will do the independent documentation and digital follow up of donor and recipient growth. 
> 
> Below are the before pictures for tomorrows 50 grafts patch test including one short video. 6 tattoos have been made on the recipient and 6 tattoos have been made on the donor shaved scalp.
> ...

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

why you think Dr Nigams product pathetic? high price or what? you seem to know things for Gho,is gho offering injections? 


> Seems even nigams pricing can't motivate you to buy a nigam-doubling-procedure. 
> 
> How pathetic ...

----------


## Arashi

> why you think Dr Nigams product pathetic? high price or what? you seem to know things for Gho,is gho offering injections?


 He means that until today, Didi always refused to answer the question "WHen are you going to Dr Nigams". Today he did so for the first time though ! If Nigams does a 50 graft test on an independent person and get 40 tripples to grow in both recipient and donor, then Didi will go to India  :Smile:

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

that sounds nice . so we will have didi to give as feedback from the patient side.didi please be kind to answer all our Qs(if Dr N does that)


> He means that until today, Didi always refused to answer the question "WHen are you going to Dr Nigams". Today he did so for the first time though ! If Nigams does a 50 graft test on an independent person and get 40 tripples to grow in both recipient and donor, then Didi will go to India

----------


## 534623

> that sounds nice . so we will have didi to give as feedback from the patient side.didi please be kind to answer all our Qs(if Dr N does that)


 Exactly - please do it, didi!!

----------


## didi

Yes, Im happy to answer all your questions..as i said before, I wanna see 40 3s growing as triplets in recipient+donor..out of 50 FUs transplanted...thats fair...assuming his scarring is on par with HST or better...
tbh guys, what gho is offering isnt something complicated(even if his claims are true)..see pix of dr nigam..day 7 and all is growing well...

dr nigam

Im happy with your donor area regrowth, seems to be working

----------


## gc83uk

Yes Didi please do it.

----------


## Arashi

Go for it Didi !!

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

:Smile:   :Smile:   :Smile:   :Smile:   :Smile: 


> yes, im happy to answer all your questions..as i said before, i wanna see 40 3s growing as triplets in recipient+donor..out of 50 fus transplanted...thats fair...assuming his scarring is on par with hst or better...
> Tbh guys, what gho is offering isnt something complicated(even if his claims are true)..see pix of dr nigam..day 7 and all is growing well...
> 
> Dr nigam
> 
> im happy with your donor area regrowth, seems to be working

----------


## gc83uk

Didi, if Dr Nigam pays for your flight would you be this guy who does the 40 triples?

Come on man. It has to be you.

----------


## Arashi

> Didi, if Dr Nigam pays for your flight would you be this guy who does the 40 triples?
> 
> Come on man. It has to be you.


 On the one hand I'd love to see this test being done on Didi. But on the other hand, will it be true proof ? I'm afraid that I'm still going to be skeptical if it's performed on Nigam's biggest fanboy. I just want to see solid, hard proof that nobody can deny anymore.

----------


## didi

Flight+virgin woman bodyguard for protection, Gadaffi style lol

Guys you wouldnt beleive me anyways, I know IM would say..'didi cheats,he is nigams fanboy, didi this didi that'

Im gonna get full procedure done once I see dr nigam is real deal

How abt we send our Gho test man to India...its gonna be free, nigam might offer to pay for his flights....and we can compare 50 GHo grafts vs 50 nigam grafts on ONE head

----------


## Arashi

> How abt we send our Gho test man to India...its gonna be free, nigam might offer to pay for his flights....and we can compare 50 GHo grafts vs 50 nigam grafts on ONE head


 This actually would be awesome. But I doubt he's interested in having a trip to India, but who knows. Hopefully he'll start his thread on HS today, so you can ask him this question  :Smile:

----------


## didi

arashi

think dutch dude will be perfect, hes been to turkey so it means he doenst mind travelling to these countries...on top of that ill have a word with dr nigam to give him full procedure for free and have 50 graft test done in his forehead/hairline/temple....somewhere where we can count hairs, slick bald spot

----------


## didi

when we tell him abt  free procedure he ll be jumping on da plane...

he will be our topcat, guy who had free HT by belgium clinic

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

didi this didi that lol



> Flight+virgin woman bodyguard for protection, Gadaffi style lol
> 
> Guys you wouldnt beleive me anyways, I know IM would say..'didi cheats,he is nigams fanboy, didi this didi that'
> 
> Im gonna get full procedure done once I see dr nigam is real deal
> 
> How abt we send our Gho test man to India...its gonna be free, nigam might offer to pay for his flights....and we can compare 50 GHo grafts vs 50 nigam grafts on ONE head

----------


## Arashi

> arashi
> 
> think dutch dude will be perfect, hes been to turkey so it means he doenst mind travelling to these countries...on top of that ill have a word with dr nigam to give him full procedure for free and have 50 graft test done in his forehead/hairline/temple....somewhere where we can count hairs, slick bald spot


 I do agree this would be THE perfect test to compare Gho vs Nigam !! Just not sure if our test person is willing to travel to India and also not sure if Nigams would want to pay for everything. But I am sure that if Nigams can show us good regeneration on this guy's scalp, that he'll definitely shut me up and I'll be come his fan too  :Wink:

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

if he is real deal i will do it too . 

when i had eye surgery prk (dont want to say why i chose that over lasik but i researched so much lol)

i told to the doctor hey if you are not sure about me take the money and dont do the laser   :Wink:  he refused. now i see like an eagle , counting 3 years  :Smile:

----------


## JJJJrS

> Kindly find below clearer Donor Regeneration pics of 15 G In-Vitro Hair Doubling Patch Test (Day 7)
> 
> We have extracted 15 grafts from the donor area and were bisected to make it to 30 grafts. 15 grafts were implanted back into the donor area and 15 grafts were implanted into the recipient area.
> 
> There were 8 Single grafts, 6 Double grafts & 1 Triple grafts, so 23 follicles were used in this procedure.


 These are some interesting photos drnigams. It definitely seems that the hairs are regenerating from the extractions.

Please continue to update us with your results, particularly in the the recipient area.

----------


## Arashi

> These are some interesting photos drnigams. It definitely seems that the hairs are regenerating from the extractions.
> 
> Please continue to update us with your results, particularly in the the recipient area.


 Come on JJJJrS, I had expected a bit more skepticism from your part. Surely the photo's show us growth but for all we know, Nigams didn't even touch the grafts at all.

----------


## didi

arashi

you really think dr nigam is just bored rich man who wanna waste his time and money


when you analized GCs donor you were jumping in the air when you saw hair growing from extraction sites...whn dr nigam produces the same you seem unmoved.
do we see hair growing from sites? yes.it means donor is regenerating.HST recipient was never tested and you endorsed it, just like IM

----------


## Arashi

> arashi
> 
> you really think dr nigam is just bored rich man who wanna waste his time and money


 Like explained, if you can trick 125 people to come your clinic, you've made a million USD, enough by Indian standards to retire. After all the photoshopping and lies I'm just extremely skeptical, I think any rational person should be just that.




> when you analized GCs donor you were jumping in the air when you saw hair growing from extraction sites...whn dr nigam produces the same you seem unmoved.


 Yep. And if doctor Nigams had performed his procedure on an independent patien, like gc83uk, I'd be 'jumping in the air' as well if he'd show those results. Instead, he performed it on a staff member which gave him tons of possibilities to cheat.




> do we see hair growing from sites? yes.it means donor is regenerating.HST recipient was never tested and you endorsed it, just like IM


 Just take a look at gc83uk's recipient. Sure we don't know an exact number but here's a hell of a lot new hair there, can't deny that.

----------


## drnigams

That's a good one arashi...but than where did the follicles come from at the recipient which is near slick bald,with daily videos with news paper with date showing clear scalp.
By the way have you not noticed we took in total 23 follicles(8 singles,6 doubles and 1 triplet) from the donor and bisected into two.
So we should have not more than that in total at donor and recipient combine as per your  day dreaming skepticism .
But sadly for you, we already got 30 plus follicles in donor itself and count how many at recipient tomorrow.
As per you the independent  member colleague showed 8 out 9  grafts regenerating as doubles , verified by all, should also be viewed as suspicion.
A new disease has to be listed with World health organisation called
' Arashi's hair regrowth phobia ' :Smile:

----------


## didi

_"Just take a look at gc83uk's recipient. Sure we don't know an exact number but here's a hell of a lot new hair there, can't deny that"_

its a very weak argument,we need to count it, I requested pictures but everyone seems to be happy ignoring it...most important part.
we analized dono area  169 times by now but i was the only one to go for recipient and I found hair per grafts to be 1.35 way bellow advertised 2.5!!......now it would be good to know how many  hairs grow in hst1 and 2.

----------


## Arashi

> That's a good one arashi...but than where did the follicles come from at the recipient which is near slick bald,with daily videos with news paper with date showing clear scalp.


 You only did 15 grafts, it's VERY easy to hide 15 extraction points, divided all over the donor, under all that hair. 



> A new disease has to be listed with World health organisation called
> ' Arashi's hair regrowth phobia '


 I must say you behave very weirdly for someone we're supposed to trust.

----------


## Arashi

> _"Just take a look at gc83uk's recipient. Sure we don't know an exact number but here's a hell of a lot new hair there, can't deny that"_
> 
> its a very weak argument,we need to count it, I requested pictures but everyone seems to be happy ignoring it...most important part.
> we analized dono area  169 times by now but i was the only one to go for recipient and I found hair per grafts to be 1.35 way bellow advertised 2.5!!......now it would be good to know how many  hairs grow in hst1 and 2.


 gc83uk, can you supply Didi with photo's of your recipient ? If he wants to count them, that should be interesting.

----------


## JJJJrS

> Come on JJJJrS, I had expected a bit more skepticism from your part. Surely the photo's show us growth but for all we know, Nigams didn't even touch the grafts at all.


 I understand that and I never said this was proof that his procedure works. They could be transections for all we know. This is why I asked drnigams to continue to provide us donor and recipient photos.

But the quality of the documentation from Nigam has improved dramatically and he's very open to suggestions online. I'm always skeptical of course. I was very dismissive earlier but I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt for now and we'll see what he can show us.

----------


## Arashi

> I understand that and I never said this was proof that his procedure works. They could be transections for all we know. This is why I asked drnigams to continue to provide us donor and recipient photos.
> 
> But the quality of the documentation from Nigam has improved dramatically and he's very open to suggestions online. I'm always skeptical of course. I was very dismissive earlier but I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt for now and we'll see what he can show us.


 Agreed, his photo's surely improve. Now if he can provide us photo's of independent patients, THEN it will start to get interesting.

----------


## drnigams

It was on a lighter note arashi as was your skepticism...

----------


## Arashi

Again Dr Nigams, I want to make it clear that I'm not here to bash you. I can easily forgive the things that happened in the past with the photoshopping and for all I know, what you said might be true (that you didn't know anything about it, although I must say I DO find it a bit hard to believe, but ok). 

I'm just saying we need SOLID proof in order to take your technique seriously.

----------


## drnigams

jjjr,
 I have posted daily video's with news paper showing the date ,showing clear scalp all over with comb over.
How can you get 50 plus follicles(donor plus recipient) from 15 grafts  with 23 follicles in all.Even transection can't give that.Plus clear video daily showing no other mark on any part of scalp with clear combing over video to see through every part of scalp.
If stemcells,dp cells can't even do this than why are all of us including aderans,tsuji,gerd ,jahoda talikg about regenerative potential of stemcells and dp cells and why do regen companies make growth factors for,if they can't regenerate...
But for our dear friend arashi, there is lot more to come including documented  work on forum members,
Dear arashi one member just now enrolled for the procedure from my favorite country netherland..may be he can satisfy you...




> I understand that and I never said this was proof that his procedure works. They could be transections for all we know. This is why I asked drnigams to continue to provide us donor and recipient photos.
> 
> But the quality of the documentation from Nigam has improved dramatically and he's very open to suggestions online. I'm always skeptical of course. I was very dismissive earlier but I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt for now and we'll see what he can show us.

----------


## Arashi

> jjjr,
>  I have posted daily video's with news paper


 I only watched your first video and saw you didn't comb the area below the extraction site. But even if you did: if you took 15 grafts divided all over the donor area and put a little of that pimple-hiding make-up over the extraction sites, then there's no way it would show visible on your video. Resolution is way too low and you're not close enough with the camera.

Fact is, you need an independent patient for us to believe you.

----------


## didi

arashi 
you are pain in the ass.

dr nigam is doing the best he can with patients he got..

ok you can send him 5  independent/uncorrupted people from holland and he will do test for free...
in meantime sit back and enjoy

----------


## Arashi

> arashi you are pain in the ass.


 Now then tell me Didi, why don't YOU go RIGHT NOW and get your procedure done ? Really, tell me ! If this is all the 'proof' YOU need, then what are you waiting for ?

----------


## Arashi

Thought so, silence again.

----------


## drnigams

Independent forum member is coming on 25th april2013, he is ready to document, he applied for indian visa the day before, but will u believe him or he will  be scared away like what im did to the last forum member who did procedure with me.
It is natural sometimes i will doubt your intentions.
Why is the guy from netherland coming all the way from to india , he is another forum member who took personal consultations with HST(mentioning the name courtsey your skepticism) and decided to come to us.
If you desire i can show the the part below the graft extraction on video or just have a look at the guy all over the scalp, let him wash his hair on skype .
Criticise, doubt,but be logical and except others also sometimes if they are ready to go the extra mile to clear all your possible doubts directly face toi face with patient on skype...as you want.
Sorry ,i have a right to defend myself as you have the right to be skeptic and confuse others with or without intention with wierd imaginative skepticism.Don't feel bad ,what you give thy shall recieve.




> I only watched your first video and saw you didn't comb the area below the extraction site. But even if you did: if you took 15 grafts divided all over the donor area and put a little of that pimple-hiding make-up over the extraction sites, then there's no way it would show visible on your video.
> 
> Fact is, you need an independent patient for us to believe you.

----------


## didi

I said, when I get more proof i will go...i never said i wanna be test mouse..

nigm is fair Dr ,he offers test for free..all you need to do is find ppl wlling to go to him...NSN did it...when nigam gets his man then arashi says 'dr nigam cheats, its his man, its all set up'...

show some respect

----------


## Arashi

> I said, when I get more proof i will go...


 But why do you need more proof ? What's wrong with his current 15 graft test ? Can you explain that to me please ?

----------


## Arashi

> Independent forum member is coming on 25th april2013, he is ready to document, he applied for indian visa the day before, but will u believe him or he will  be scared away like what im did to the last forum member who did procedure with me.


 IM didn't scare anybody away, haha, you really think NSN stops visiting these forums because of IM ? LIke you said, he lost a family member, had tons of work, so it's only logical he needs some time.

But about this new forum member, will I believe him ? It depends who it is of course.




> Why is the guy from netherland coming all the way from to india , he is another forum member who took personal consultations with HST(mentioning the name courtsey your skepticism) and decided to come to us.


 I'm not sure what you're saying here ?

----------


## didi

IM is Gho shill, arashi used to be fair and balanced poster then he changed for worse

constructive criticism is welcome but gho fanboys are getting paranoid these days


dr nigam

you gonna have some dutch man on 25th of april? what is he getting, test or full procedure? can you get him to post on this forum

----------


## Arashi

> IM is Gho shill, arashi used to be fair and balanced poster then he changed for worse
> 
> constructive criticism is welcome but gho fanboys are getting paranoid these days


 Are you on any medication ?

----------


## Arashi

By the way, I'm thinking, if you can get some random guy from the Netherlands to come to your clinic for the test, have him fly back within 1-2 days after the test, I can meet up with this guy, check his scalp and verify everything is good. THAT should be solid proof then, and that's what we all want, right ?

----------


## drnigams

Didi, on 25th april the guy who is coming is from east asia and also a forum member, he agreed to document his case,he has done 2 to 3 transplants in the past.
The guy who enrolled today is a dutch, he is also a forum member,( not a random guy) he will confirm his dates ,he will come in may 2013.And fully aware of our conversations and ready to document.
Plus there are 6 more forum guys for next two months with confirmed bookings ,one from usa and one from canada, they are  also forum members.
Most of them  ready to document.How can i guarantee the quality of pics taken by them at their homes. 

I can't put tattoo on them ,luckily nsn had a birth mark.
And it's already proven 90&#37; regen around  birth mark in his case, who is an independent member.


There is another forum


> IM is Gho shill, arashi used to be fair and balanced poster then he changed for worse
> 
> constructive criticism is welcome but gho fanboys are getting paranoid these days
> 
> 
> dr nigam
> 
> you gonna have some dutch man on 25th of april? what is he getting, test or full procedure? can you get him to post on this forum

----------


## didi

thats what we need, we gotta find that man.
if arashi says its all good ..it means dr nigam is legit

you gonna switch sides if its real?

----------


## gc83uk

Dr Nigam,

The reason why Arashi is finding the 15 graft test difficult to take as solid evidence is this:

Imagine those 15 extractions in the donor area are ALL transections.

Now imagine how EASY it would be to extract 15/30 hair grafts from ALL OVER the head on the same day 0. And then implant those 15/30 grafts from around the head into the recipient.

Later you show us video back combing the long hair, yes this is great, but nobody could ever see or be able to find 15 extractions in those long hairs.

Do you understand now?

I know it seems crazy that anybody would do this, probably Arashi and almost certainly myself don't really believe you would go to these lengths, however I need to be 100&#37; sure, not 99.9% sure.  This is the difference between a Yes and a No.

Even Didi your biggest fan is not convinced, surely this tells you everything you need to know!

Personally my other reason for being so doubtful is because 15 grafts for documentation is such a small number.  Theoretically you can take your time with these 15 grafts in a pain staking way, however when your doing sessions of 2000 and your being less careful because each graft is not being scrutinised and analysed by the word, it's then I wonder how many will regrow in the donor and the success of the grafts in the recipient.

These are my reasons.

I honestly hope you can convince us all with larger documented procedures, which I'm sure you will in the coming weeks. Until then I don't believe there is anything to talk about on this.

----------


## Arashi

> you gonna switch sides if its real?


 How many times do I have to explain to you this is not a game. There are no 'sides'. If Dr Nigams can proof he has a therapy that's better than Gho's, I'm going to salute him for that and will speak only good of him. Why wouldn't I ? I really don't understand your point of view, like it's a game between Gho Vs nigam and there has to be a winner and loser or something.

----------


## Arashi

> Dr Nigam,
> 
> The reason why Arashi is finding the 15 graft test difficult to take as solid evidence is this:
> 
> Imagine those 15 extractions in the donor area are ALL transections.
> 
> Now imagine how EASY it would be to extract 15/30 hair grafts from ALL OVER the head on the same day 0. And then implant those 15/30 grafts from around the head into the recipient.
> 
> Later you show us video back combing the long hair, yes this is great, but nobody could ever see or be able to find 15 extractions in those long hairs.
> ...


 Thanks for summing that up, GC, these are exactly my thoughts. And very good point regarding Didi.

----------


## drnigams

GC , you are right regarding human error when a surgeon does large procedure.
Will you similarly agree with that if i shave this guy(of course i hope i will be able to convince him)than you can clearly rule out the possibility of extraction from any other site ,since his case is only 7 days old ,any other mark of extraction will be visible.
Of course next week i am into next step forward with the next documentation with more improved version.



> Dr Nigam,
> 
> The reason why Arashi is finding the 15 graft test difficult to take as solid evidence is this:
> 
> Imagine those 15 extractions in the donor area are ALL transections.
> 
> Now imagine how EASY it would be to extract 15/30 hair grafts from ALL OVER the head on the same day 0. And then implant those 15/30 grafts from around the head into the recipient.
> 
> Later you show us video back combing the long hair, yes this is great, but nobody could ever see or be able to find 15 extractions in those long hairs.
> ...

----------


## Arashi

> GC , you are right regarding human error when a surgeon does large procedure.
> Will you similarly agree with that if i shave this guy(of course i hope i will be able to convince him)than you can clearly rule out the possibility of extraction from any other site ,since his case is only 7 days old ,any other mark of extraction will be visible.
> Of course next week i am into next step forward with the next documentation with more improved version.


 Shaving would already be a lot better proof. But I think it would be a truely solid case if you have your Dutch patient fly back within 1-2 days of extraction and let me meet up with him in the Netherlands the day after that. That would really be a solid case, far beyond shooting a video.

----------


## drnigams

Arashi,
He will be doing doubling of 1000 grafts plus take HM and dp injections.
How will you analyse.
I am not sure any member would like to disclose his personal identity,he has been advised by me to keep his hair long so that he can cover up his shaved donor, he does not even want anyone to know he got any ht done.
How will you analyse such a case.
I have an office at hague(netherland), would you accept any of my staff who keeps travelling hague to mumbai every month,with your grace he may get a free procedure.




> Shaving would already be a lot better proof. But I think it would be a truely solid case if you have your Dutch patient fly back within 1-2 days of extraction and let me meet up with him in the Netherlands the day after that. That would really be a solid case, far beyond shooting a video.

----------


## gc83uk

> GC , you are right regarding human error when a surgeon does large procedure.
> Will you similarly agree with that if i shave this guy(of course i hope i will be able to convince him)than you can clearly rule out the possibility of extraction from any other site ,since his case is only 7 days old ,any other mark of extraction will be visible.
> Of course next week i am into next step forward with the next documentation with more improved version.


 I think you should leave your poor staff guys hair alone  :Big Grin: 

I don't think he would be happy for you shaving all his hair.

After 7 days most of my extraction sites had completely cleared up, so I think this would be a waste of time anyway.

Honestly Dr Nigam I think the best way forward is to start a fresh on a new patient, preferably somebody who already shaves their head or someone who will need to shave their head for the Doubling procedure.

I admire your efforts in listening to the forum members, I've never known anything like this in my life.

----------


## Arashi

> Arashi,
> He will be doing doubling of 1000 grafts plus take HM and dp injections.
> How will you analyse.
> I am not sure any member would like to disclose his personal identity,he has been advised by me to keep his hair long so that he can cover up his shaved donor, he does not even want anyone to know he got any ht done.
> How will you analyse such a case.
> I have an office at hague(netherland), would you accept any of my staff who keeps travelling hague to mumbai every month,with your grace he may get a free procedure.


 I misunderstood, I thought you were doing a 50 graft test here. 

If you're going to perform 1000 grafts doubling, then I don't even need to meet up with him. All we need are good highres pre-op photo's of the donor area you're going to take the grafts from and post-op photo's of the same. And then same for recipient.

However, if you're willing to have your staff member travel from Mumbai to The Hague, then yes, this would be PERFECT. However to make this a solid case, you'd have to agree to certain things. Like that he flies back within 2 days of extraction (so I wouldn't have any problems detecting other extraction points) and we'd need to do a little skype meeting on the day of extraction, so I could see his recipient is still untouched at that time. Not very difficult to arrange I think and yes, that would be SOLID proof.

----------


## Arashi

> After 7 days most of my extraction sites had completely cleared up, so I think this would be a waste of time anyway.


 Yes, that's why time is of essence and he'd need to get on the plane to the Netherlands the day after the test.

----------


## gc83uk

I should also add that if you can persuade NSN to do an AFTER picture of those 468 grafts then I think this will be extremely valuable.

I understand we do not have a pre-extraction photo of that area, but at least we will be able to see how many of those 468 sites have regrown.

I know he is busy and it's his prerogative to get on with his life or not want to share with the community, if this is the case, then you just need to get a new patient like NSN, give him a free week holiday in a nice resort in India where he can relax. On the 1st day he has his procedure, On the 7th day ask him to come back into the office and take a good after photo.  Don't worry, you really don't need a tattoo. You just need to map the hair grafts, the same way JJJrS / IM did.

I know you have doubts about me being able to find those 468 sites, but it's really not that difficult, even 6 months later it would still be easy.

----------


## Arashi

So yeah, there are options to show SOLID proof here. Would be very interesting to see if Dr Nigams is going to take them  :Smile:

----------


## drnigams

I have  a doctor from my hague office who will be coming to mumbai next month.
I can do a patch test of 50 grafts on him.
You can visit him at hague and check his scalp.
Yes you can have a skype chat with him on the day of procedure,
 i can't guarantee you whether he will do the procedure just one day before he flies to hague,I can't change a millioner's travel schedule like this doctor,who is a resident of Netherland.
Well i am also enjoying and destressing with you guys.




> So yeah, there are options to show SOLID proof here. Would be very interesting to see if Dr Nigams is going to take them

----------


## gc83uk

Dr Nigam,

I don't know if this has been asked before...

Lets assume everything you say is correct, what % of invivo is likely to regrow?  Is the % dependant on which size punch you use?

Also have you tested re extracting previously extracted FU's to see if they regrow a 2nd or 3rd time? If yes, how many months do you suggest waiting inbetween procedures to guarantee it will regrow just like the first procedure?

----------


## Arashi

> I have  a doctor from my hague office who will be coming to mumbai next month.
> I can do a patch test of 50 grafts on him.
> You can visit him at hague and check his scalp.
> Yes you can have a skype chat with him on the day of procedure,
>  i can't guarantee you whether he will do the procedure just one day before he flies to hague,I can't change a millioner's travel schedule like this doctor,who is a resident of Netherland.
> Well i am also enjoying and destressing with you guys.


 Like GC83UK noted, within a few days extraction points become invisible so if he can't get the plane the next day, then it's not going to be any good unfortunately.

----------


## Arashi

But I do like the change of tone in this thread. Rather than accusing each other and playing this yes/no game, why don't we all try to figure out a way to produce SOLID proof.

----------


## Arashi

Thinking about it though, most important at this moment would probably to just shoot good photo's of the cases you're going to do in the next few weeks (like you've just told us). If you can shoot good en useful pre-op en post-op photo's of donor and recipient, then that would be a great start.

----------


## drnigams

GC,
Percentage is dependent on at the exact level we bisect the follicle.I will not disclose the exact level, niether have i shown that in pics as of now.
As you know the follicle is approx. 4.12mm deep as per various morphometry studies where the root/dermal papilla lies.
I need a particular point where in i can get both epithelial and mesenchymal stemcells inherent in the follicle(i am not claiming i extract stemcells ,they are inherent in the follicle :Smile: ) 
We don't need a large punch as the large punch is required for the deep root extraction wherein the roots are diverging into various directions.
We don't need to go deep.
Even going 1mm to 2mm deep and than plucking will do
And accidentally if we extract the full follicle , we implant it back at the donor,we preserve also the unsuitable graft which is a complete follicle.
We need not more the one drill, as.. even if we get a transected follicle without being bisected at the right level,we are still not doing any harm to the donor.
I tilted towarsd's invivo the moment i discovered eyes(copied from arashi) of ht, the ultrasound of hair with special probes. 
Regarding previously extracted graft for re extraction and suitable time for  the same,theoretically should not be a problem to re extract after 3 months but the real data with evidence, i can show you when i start collecting the same from this month. But personally i feel the time has come ...keep extracting or plucking from the donor every 3 to 4 months and have unlimited hair,
*does a beautiful girl loses her eyebrow,
 although she plucks her eyebrow every month and the eyebrow regrows with similar thickness and with same speed,*
Still that's a good point to analyse in coming weeks.

QUOTE=gc83uk;114488]Dr Nigam,

I don't know if this has been asked before...

Lets assume everything you say is correct, what % of invivo is likely to regrow?  Is the % dependant on which size punch you use?

Also have you tested re extracting previously extracted FU's to see if they regrow a 2nd or 3rd time? If yes, how many months do you suggest waiting inbetween procedures to guarantee it will regrow just like the first procedure?[/QUOTE]

----------


## JJJJrS

> I have  a doctor from my hague office who will be coming to mumbai next month.
> I can do a patch test of 50 grafts on him.
> You can visit him at hague and check his scalp.
> Yes you can have a skype chat with him on the day of procedure,
>  i can't guarantee you whether he will do the procedure just one day before he flies to hague,I can't change a millioner's travel schedule like this doctor,who is a resident of Netherland.
> Well i am also enjoying and destressing with you guys.


 drnigams, I admire the lengths that you are willing to go to provide evidence for your procedure and how accommodating you are to the requests of forum posters. It certainly lends you credibility.

For now, I'd encourage you to continue posting the results of your 15 graft test. Hopefully neversaynever will also update us. Later on, perhaps you can do a 50 graft test on a forum poster.

----------


## Arashi

> drnigams, I admire the lengths that you are willing to go to provide evidence for your procedure and how accommodating you are to the requests of forum posters. It certainly lends you credibility.


 Hehe. I keep being skeptical. Basically he says: yeah we can do the test but not in such a way that fraud is impossible.

Maybe I'm a bit harsh on Dr Nigam. But after all that happened, he must surely understand that we need SOLID proof ... If he's really willing to 'go to lengths' to proof his technique then this shouldn't be that hard, should it ? There are other way's as well.

----------


## gc83uk

> GC,
> Percentage is dependent on at the exact level we bisect the follicle.I will not disclose the exact level, niether have i shown that in pics as of now.
> As you know the follicle is approx. 4.12mm deep as per various morphometry studies where the root/dermal papilla lies.
> I need a particular point where in i can get both epithelial and mesenchymal stemcells inherent in the follicle(i am not claiming i extract stemcells ,they are inherent in the follicle) 
> We don't need a large punch as the large punch is required for the deep root extraction wherein the roots are diverging into various directions.
> We don't need to go deep.
> Even going 1mm to 2mm deep and than plucking will do
> And accidentally if we extract the full follicle , we implant it back at the donor,we preserve also the unsuitable graft which is a complete follicle.
> We need not more the one drill, as.. even if we get a transected follicle without being bisected at the right level,we are still not doing any harm to the donor.
> ...


 Thank you for answering my questions.

Can you tell me why you say 


> I will not disclose the exact level?

----------


## 534623

> GC,
> Percentage is dependent on *at the exact level we bisect* the follicle. I will not disclose the exact level, niether have i shown that in pics as of now.


 Didn't you know that practically it's IRRELEVANT and NEEDLESS to know that?
The reason why it's irrelevant and needless - oh, THAT's indeed rocket science, because "the exact level" (aka 'perfect level') varies from patient to patient and even from follicle to follicle anyhow (in the same patient!)...that means, you know a shit anyhow about the "exact level" ...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 



> As you know the follicle is approx. 4.12mm deep as per various morphometry studies where the root/dermal papilla lies.


 hmmm, I didn't know that scientists and hair researchers needed various "morphometry studies" to find out "where the root/dermal papilla lies".

Check this out ...

The pic shows a typical Gho-petri-dish with typical Gho-HST-grafts and this pic is taken straight from Dr. Gho's website: http://www.hasci.com/en/rates/
And just in case of any doubts ...

...I couldn't see something different in my OWN petri-dish - could you, gc?

Anyway, the point is: 
Even the dumpest hair transplant doctor out there is able to show you in the first pic (with red arrows or something) "where the root/dermal papilla lies" - WITHOUT "morphometry studies"... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## 534623

> GC,
> Percentage is dependent on at the exact level we bisect the follicle.I will not disclose the exact level, niether have i shown that in pics as of now.
> As you know *the follicle is approx. 4.12mm deep* as per various morphometry studies where the root/dermal papilla lies.


 By the way - WHO (author) found it out?

Or is that just something you found at hairsite in one of my posts?  :Big Grin:

----------


## drnigams

The all knowing great scientist, ironman,
Here we are discussing locating the dermal papilla below the skin and not when it is lying outside the scalp as in your petri dish.
Do you understand the most intelligent researcher mr im.
I will prefer to use world's first ultra sound to locate the exact level of bisection...Because i do not have eyes of a scientist like you ,which can give me vision under the skin,and exacatly so because different follicles have different length and different angle...that's why if you follow blind procedure ,you will lower regen &#37;, grow up...!.
Now i hope the dumbest will understand why it is the only relevant thing in invivo technique.


E=534623;114502]Didn't you know that practically it's IRRELEVANT and NEEDLESS to know that?
The reason why it's irrelevant and needless - oh, THAT's indeed rocket science, because "the exact level" (aka 'perfect level') varies from patient to patient and even from follicle to follicle anyhow...that means, you know a shit anyhow about the "exact level" ...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 


hmmm, I didn't know that scientists and hair researchers needed various "morphometry studies" to find out "where the root/dermal papilla lies".

Check this out ...

The pic shows a typical Gho-petri-dish with typical Gho-HST-grafts and this pic is taken straight from Dr. Gho's website: http://www.hasci.com/en/rates/
And just in case of any doubts ...

...I couldn't see something different in my OWN petri-dish - could you, gc?

Anyway, the point is: 
Even the dumpest hair transplant doctor out there is able to show you in the first pic (with red arrows or something) "where the root/dermal papilla lies" - WITHOUT "morphometry studies"... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): [/QUOTE]

----------


## drnigams

The great scientist ,you can just google and type hair morphometry studies and you will get the author...nothing rocket science like...extraction of stemcells... ..preservation media to activate and multiply follicles...!




> By the way - WHO (author) found it out?
> 
> Or is that just something you found at hairsite in one of my posts?

----------


## Arashi

> GC,
> 
> *does a beautiful girl loses her eyebrow,
>  although she plucks her eyebrow every month and the eyebrow regrows with similar thickness and with same speed,*
> Still that's a good point to analyse in coming weeks.


 Maybe I'm missing your point here, how is a girl plucking hairs related to splitting grafts ?

----------


## 534623

> I will prefer to use world's first ultra sound to locate the exact level of bisection...Because i do not have eyes of a scientist like you ,which can give me vision under the skin,and exacatly so because different follicles have different length and different angle...that's why if you follow blind procedure ,you will lower regen &#37;, grow up...!.


 hmmm, didn't you know that -in theory- you can make a complete hair follicle just from 1 single (hair follicle-)cell?? Just from one!

So who cares about any "bisection level" IF you know how to create a brand new complete follicle just from 1 (hair follicle-) cell.

THE reason why most researchers out there  always get just "mixed results" from bisection studies is just due to lack of knowledge about what I have just explained... and yeah, so it's not surprising that, of course, they get always better results the more "cells" they extract and implant the greater the success. And the lesser the "mass of cells" the greater the failure - but all that is just one reason why most HT docs still prefer to extract and to transplant "the whole mass" of something - as with heart or kidney transplants ...lol

----------


## Arashi

> hmmm, didn't you know that -in theory- you can make a complete hair follicle just from 1 single (hair follicle-)cell?? Just from one!
> 
> So who cares about any "bisection level" IF you know how to create a brand new complete follicle just from 1 (hair follicle-) cell.
> 
> THE reason why most researchers out there  always get just "mixed results" from bisection studies is just due to lack of knowledge about what I have just explained... and yeah, so it's not surprising that, of course, they get always better results the more "cells" they extract and implant the greater the success. And the lesser the "mass of cells" the greater the failure - but all that is just one reason why most HT docs still prefer to extract and to transplant "the whole mass" of something - as with heart or kidney transplants ...lol


 But in your opinion, what exactly causes that 20% of donor in the Gho procedure doesn't regrow ? Did they extract too much of the graft ? You're basically saying that that shouldn't matter ? Or am I missing something here ?

----------


## gc83uk

> But in your opinion, what exactly causes that 20% of donor in the Gho procedure doesn't regrow ? Did they extract too much of the graft ? You're basically saying that that shouldn't matter ? Or am I missing something here ?


 I would hazard a guess it's because only 80% to 90% of hairs are in anagen phase.

----------


## drnigams

We do not split grafts.
When a girl plucks her eyebrow (mostly a single follicle),
A part of follicle comes out with breakage or bisection under her skin.
Does not the follicle of the eyebrow grows back immediately and with same thickness even if you pluck after an interval (although these plucked hair are partial follicles with various length).
This also proofs that if you pluck a hair follicle(provided it is not plucked from the root), it will regenerate back again and again.
That's why i say we can pluck the follicle every 3 to 4 months and have great supply of hair to convert nw7 to nw1/2 in 2013 itself.
Yes we can improve the quality of plucking by giving eyes to the technique by using special hair ULTRASOUND.
And most importantly we will have to support the partial follicle with dp cells,stemcells and growth factors.
All the above skill and ingredients will define the regenerative % at recipient,
but no way any damage to donor which is safe and intact.
Here the partial graft acts like a semi hair germ with which stemcells and dp cells can talk and repair regrow the follicle.
Thus this becomes the interim solution for MPB total cure till hair germ is successfully developed in lab and is successfully implanted.



> Maybe I'm missing your point here, how is a girl plucking hairs related to splitting grafts ?

----------


## 534623

> But in your opinion, what exactly causes that 20&#37; of donor in the Gho procedure doesn't regrow ?


 Oh, the answer to this question is rocket science for Dr. Nigam ...

The 10-20% "failure rate" with Gho's HST technique reflects just the percentage of follicles in TELOGEN versus  ANAGEN in every human scalp.

So it has nothing to do with any "technical failure" per se.

----------


## gc83uk

> Oh, the answer to this question is rocket science for Dr. Nigam ...
> 
> The 10-20% "failure rate" with Gho's HST technique reflects just the percentage of follicles in TELOGEN versus  ANAGEN in every human scalp.
> 
> So it has nothing to do with any "technical failure" per se.


 Dr Nigam, how do you avoid this very problem to get 100% regrowth?

Or do you also agree that because of Telogen, it can cause 10% or 20% of grafts not to regrow?

----------


## drnigams

IM is Totally wrong, if you compare with my donor regen which is much higher than 100%, *the true invivo stemcell follilce multiplication.*
I should also have less regen if im is to be believed, as my patients will also have follicles in anagen and telogen,
That's why i say, if you don't share  and pronounce your invention as secret,  you are definitely not confident of your own technique, and can be exposed...,but still will be.
I would like to quote the word's of *DR WESLEY..when you find something exciting ..you can't resist sharing.He also said the invention was nothing but common sense,and he wondered why nobody found till now ..this was regarding his trial on scarlesss procedure.*
Arashi it is because many a times they extract complete follicles for implantation at recipient as seen in petri dish as shown by ironman that anyone can easily see dermal papilla in the extracted grafts in ironmans petri dish(again im force's me speak)



> Oh, the answer to this question is rocket sience for Dr. Nigam ...
> 
> The 10-20% "failure rate" with Gho's HST technique reflects just the percentage of follicles in TELOGEN versus  ANAGEN.

----------


## gc83uk

> IM is Totally wrong, if you compare with my donor regen which is much higher than 100%, *the true invivo stemcell follilce multiplication.*
> I should also have less regen if im is to be believed, as my patients will also have follicles in anagen and telogen,
> That's why i say, if you don't share  and pronounce your invention as secret,  you are definitely not confident of your own technique, and can be exposed...,but still will be.
> I would like to quote the word's of *DR WESLEY..when you find something exciting ..you can't resist sharing.He also said the invention was nothing but common sense,and he wondered why nobody found till now ..this was regarding his trial on scarlesss procedure.*
> Arashi it is because many a times they extract complete follicles for implantation at recipient as seen in petri dish as shown by ironman that anyone can easily see dermal papilla in the extracted grafts in ironmans petri dish(again im force's me speak)


 I'm sorry, but how can you have higher than 100% regen in the donor?

Am I missing something?

----------


## 534623

> IM is Totally wrong, if you compare with my donor regen which is much higher than 100&#37;, *the true invivo stemcell follilce multiplication.*


 erm, excuse me, but what exactly can be "higher than 100%"??
Let me guess:
You extract 10 grafts and 15 grafts will regrow in the donor area - am I right?
Or you extract 10 single follicles and 17 single follicles will regrow in the donor area - am I right?

I mean, THAT would be "much higher than 100%" regrowth. lol

So can you prove (scientifically or anecdotally or photoshopically) where YOU got "much higher than 100%" regrowth?

----------


## 534623

> I'm sorry, but how can you have higher than 100% regen in the donor?
> 
> Am I missing something?


 Yes, you missed something:
Dr. Nigam had big problems at school with percentage calculations.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Arashi

So now we have 2 different explanations for the 20&#37; failed donor regrowth, interesting  :Smile:  From my point of view, the IM explanation does make a lot more sense though. Because if Nigams explanation was right, then that 20% number should highly vary, with the skill of the technician. It doesn't seem to happen and the number is quite steady at rougly 20%, which would make a LOT of sense if it was due to the phase cycling telogen/anagen, cause that speed is the same for everybody and hence you will always have the same percentage in telogen/anagen.

----------


## drnigams

GC, Arashi,
Today the discussions are very constructive,and arashi good you raised the point of lower regen of donor at ironmans clinic,or i would have been accused of biased comment.
Lower regen at donor and recipient is also, because as believed by most of the surgeons ,( as seen in im's histopath slide of transverse bisected fu)
im extracts 1 or 2 complete follicles from a 3 follicle graft,that's why you can clearly see intact follicles at the petri dish and ironman himself posted that any dumb surgeon can see the dermal papilla(the root) in the follicles lying in the petri dish..
Of course partially transected few follicles may grow.
But let me tell you with full confidence that ..the so called ..PRESERVATION media is an ILLUSION and and does not have the power to multiply follicles.
IM just posted IN THEORY,1 follicle can generate many follicle and he is successfull in that, than why not 100% regen at donor and recipient.
Aderans , we and many others have millions of stemcells to inject,which includes virtually all possible stem cells present in a follicle, still we cannot claim new follicle regen will be their in all scalps with our powerful stemcell solution injections.

But yes in theory ironman can create multiple follicles with his stemcell invivo hair multiplication....!




> IM is Totally wrong, if you compare with my donor regen which is much higher than 100%, *the true invivo stemcell follilce multiplication.*
> I should also have less regen if im is to be believed, as my patients will also have follicles in anagen and telogen,
> That's why i say, if you don't share  and pronounce your invention as secret,  you are definitely not confident of your own technique, and can be exposed...,but still will be.
> I would like to quote the word's of *DR WESLEY..when you find something exciting ..you can't resist sharing.He also said the invention was nothing but common sense,and he wondered why nobody found till now ..this was regarding his trial on scarlesss procedure.*
> Arashi it is because many a times they extract complete follicles for implantation at recipient as seen in petri dish as shown by ironman that anyone can easily see dermal papilla in the extracted grafts in ironmans petri dish(again im force's me speak)

----------


## Arashi

> ironmans clinic


 Hehe. Ironman seems to be quite knowledgable on the subject but if he's working for Gho then I'm going to eat my shoes  :Smile:

----------


## drnigams

GC,
 actually im claims invivo hair multiplication with stemcells.
He should ideally have more than 100&#37; regen as he can multiply follicles with his preservation medium etc.
GC,
more than 100% regen means when dp mesenchymal cells,activated stemcells from various parts of follicle plus growth stimulating growth factors are injected into a bisected or wounded follicle there is enough stuff to create new follicles than originally present..
or else dr nigams,aderans and all others should not have any result from their stemcell solution when injected even on a normal non wounded scalp without any proto bisected hair structure.

Please have a closer look at the donor pics of patch test i posted today .
Ideally the test patch case should not have more than 46 follicles in total as there were only 23 follicles in the extracted 15 grafts.
But you can clearly count even at the 7th day we have 30 plus follicles at the donor regenerating and clearly visible,watch out for the recipient regen tmr,follow this case for 3 months.
Tmr itself if it shows more than 46 follicles in donor and recipient....you are already at more than 100% regrowth both at donor and recipient .
I can tell you even in nsn recipient you will see near 100% regen.




> I'm sorry, but how can you have higher than 100% regen in the donor?
> 
> Am I missing something?

----------


## gc83uk

> GC, Arashi,
> Today the discussions are very constructive,and arashi good you raised the point of lower regen of donor at ironmans clinic,or i would have been accused of biased comment.
> Lower regen at donor and recipient is also, because as believed by most of the surgeons ,( as seen in im's histopath slide of transverse bisected fu)
> im extracts 1 or 2 complete follicles from a 3 follicle graft,that's why you can clearly see intact follicles at the petri dish and ironman himself posted that any dumb surgeon can see the dermal papilla(the root) in the follicles lying in the petri dish..
> Of course partially transected few follicles may grow.
> But let me tell you with full confidence that ..the so called ..PRESERVATION media is an ILLUSION and and does not have the power to multiply follicles.
> IM just posted IN THEORY,1 follicle can generate many follicle and he is successfull in that, than why not 100% regen at donor and recipient.
> Aderans , we and many others have millions of stemcells to inject,which includes virtually all possible stem cells present in a follicle, still we cannot claim new follicle regen will be their in all scalps with our powerful stemcell solution injections.
> 
> But yes in theory ironman can create multiple follicles with his stemcell invivo hair multiplication....!


 Do Hasci claim the preservation medium multiply follicles? This is news to me. Surely it's called Preservation medium because it does just that: preserve!

I still don't understand how you can have more than 100% regen in the donor. Please explain this to me Dr Nigam.

Let's use this example, you extract 100 single FU's from the donor, and all 100 of these single FU's grow back in the donor, then you have 100% - The maximum. How can you get more in the donor than 100%?

----------


## Arashi

> I still don't understand how you can have more than 100% regen in the donor. Please explain this to me Dr Nigam.


 I think what he says is that if you add the right mixture of stem cells to the graft, it will generate extra follicles.

----------


## 534623

> Let's use this example, you extract 100 single FU's from the donor, and all 100 of these single FU's grow back in the donor, then you have 100&#37; - The maximum. How can you get more in the donor than 100%?


 Exactly - how can you get more in the donor than 100%??  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## gc83uk

> GC,
>  actually im claims invivo hair multiplication with stemcells.
> He should ideally have more than 100% regen as he can multiply follicles with his preservation medium etc.
> GC,
> more than 100% regen means when dp mesenchymal cells,activated stemcells from various parts of follicle plus growth stimulating growth factors are injected into a bisected or wounded follicle there is enough stuff to create new follicles than originally present...or else dr nigams,aderans and all others should not have any result from their stemcell solution when injected even on a normal non wounded scalp without any proto bisected hair structure.


 What Iron Man claims in terms of his knowledge on Hair Multiplication and what Hasci/Gho do is completely separate. I hope you understand this.

Ok, so your saying you can increase the number of hairs in each FU than there originally was.

The thing is, I'm not talking about the number of hairs, I'm talking about the FU's.  Surely it's possible that you extract a graft that is in telogen?

For example, NSN only shows 80% regrowth of the regrown FU's around his birthmark.

----------


## gc83uk

> I think what he says is that if you add the right mixture of stem cells to the graft, it will generate extra follicles.


 Yes I get this, but it's distracting from the original question IMO

----------


## Arashi

So wait. According to you guys, IM and GC, the failed regrowth is due to extraction of grafts that are in the telogen phase. Which makes a lot of sense, since it would explain that 20% being pretty contstant.

According to Dr Nigam on the other hand, failed regrowth is due to imperfect cutting of the graft. He's going to try to do that better with his ultrasound gear. But if this is not even a factor, like GC and IM claim, then what's the point of using ultrasound technology anyway ?

----------


## gc83uk

> So wait. According to you guys, IM and GC, the failed regrowth is due to extraction of grafts that are in the telogen phase. Which makes a lot of sense, since it would explain that 20&#37; being pretty contstant.
> 
> According to Dr Nigam on the other hand, failed regrowth is due to imperfect cutting of the graft. He's going to try to do that better with his ultrasound gear. But if this is not even a factor, like GC and IM claim, then what's the point of using ultrasound technology anyway ?


 Well I think so, but I think we should hear it from the horses mouth.  Maybe some admittance from Dr Nigam, that it is indeed possible to mistakenly extract a FU which is in telogen. If this happens then this FU is likely to not regrow and a hairless gap will exist. If he can confirm this or disprove it that would be interesting.

----------


## Arashi

> Well I think so, but I think we should hear it from the horses mouth. .


 Should be very interesting. Cause if you guys are right, then everything that Dr Nigams has been doing and saying here pretty much was total BS. Using ultrasound technology won't make ANY difference at all in that case.

----------


## drnigams

gc,
nsn shows 8 fu growing as doubles out of the 9 visible in the photo posted ,one extraction site was outside the frame of the photo,you can confirmt he same.
Which means 90&#37; regeneration at donor.
1graft did not show up as on today because in most probability it was extracted from the root as a complete follicular unit as in fue.
Yes we may extract a graft in telogen like any fue/fut procedure can also have the grafts in telo and anagen.
IN in vivo one can loose grafts at the donor when a complete fu is extracted or would seem to have lost the fu at donor or recipient  when certain fu may be in telogen,but will  only seem to have been lost ,it will come back when it comes to anagen phase.
it may be new to you about their claim of regen with preservation media..just read their patent..preservation media contents have been claimed to activate stemcells and multiply follicles...than what are we wasting time in labs and working towards creating a hair germ in the lab to create new follicles..because im has invented a preservation media to do that and im can also extract the impossible stemcell from the follicle in vivo with his special triple waved needle and create new follicles...
If only extracted or activated stemcells at bulge that is cd34+ can create new hair than aderans dr nigam would have been 100% successful with our hm solution injections with millions of such cells and more.... 





> What Iron Man claims in terms of his knowledge on Hair Multiplication and what Hasci/Gho do is completely separate. I hope you understand this.
> 
> Ok, so your saying you can increase the number of hairs in each FU than there originally was.
> 
> The thing is, I'm not talking about the number of hairs, I'm talking about the FU's.  Surely it's possible that you extract a graft that is in telogen?
> 
> For example, NSN only shows 80% regrowth of the regrown FU's around his birthmark.

----------


## 534623

> But let me tell you with full confidence that ..the so called ..PRESERVATION media is an ILLUSION and and does not have the power to multiply follicles.


 That is correct! 
Dr. Gho's preservation medium doesn't have the power to multiply follicles. The medium has just the power to keep the enclosed (but significantly reduced) cells within the follicle tissue not just alive - the medium has also the power to trigger healthy cell-proliferation/division in the grafts (aka "in vivo hair stem cell multiplication). All that (including some additional factors patients' get orally before and after the procedure) is Dr. Gho's rocket science ... lol ... often tried to copy - but never reached ...

----------


## gc83uk

> gc,
> nsn shows 8 fu growing as doubles out of the 9 visible in the photo posted ,one extraction site was outside the frame of the photo,you can confirmt he same.
> Which means 90% regeneration at donor.
> 1graft did not show up as on today because in most probability it was extracted from the root as a complete follicular unit as in fue.
> Yes we may extract a graft in telogen like any fue/fut procedure can also have the grafts in telo and anagen.
> IN in vivo one can loose grafts at the donor when a complete fu is extracted or would seem to have lost the fu at donor or recipient  when certain fu may be in telogen,but will  only seem to have been lost ,it will come back when it comes to anagen phase.
> it may be new to you about their claim of regen with preservation media..just read their patent..preservation media contents have been claimed to activate stemcells and multiply follicles...than what are we wasting time in labs and working towards creating a hair germ in the lab to create new follicles..because im has invented a preservation media to do that and im can also extract the impossible stemcell from the follicle in vivo with his special triple waved needle and create new follicles...
> If only extracted or activated stemcells at bulge that is cd34+ can create new hair than aderans dr nigam would have been 100% successful with our hm solution injections with millions of such cells and more....


 hehe ok, but you don't really believe Iron Man works for Hasci do you?

I think your smarter than that.

He has nothing to do with Hasci, so whatever Iron Man claims he can do, which maybe he can, but still they aren't the words of Hasci.

----------


## Arashi

> gc,
> media..just read their patent..preservation media contents have been claimed to activate stemcells and multiply follicles....


 Do you have an URL/link please ?

----------


## gc83uk

> That is correct! 
> Dr. Gho's preservation medium doesn't have the power to multiply follicles. The medium has just the power to keep the enclosed (but significantly reduced) cells within the follicle tissue not just alive - the medium has also the power to trigger healthy cell-proliferation/division in the grafts (aka "in vivo hair stem cell multiplication). All that (including some addition factors patients' get orally before and after the procedure) is Dr. Gho's rocket science ... lol ... often tried to copy - never reached ...


 There you go Dr Nigam - Dr. Gho's preservation medium doesn't have the power to multiply follicles.

Straight fron Iron Man.

You must have misunderstood him somewhere to claim otherwise.

----------


## JJJJrS

> Should be very interesting. Cause if you guys are right, then everything that Dr Nigams has been doing and saying here pretty much was total BS. Using ultrasound technology won't make ANY difference at all in that case.


 I'm not familar with the technology and how well it can be applied for hair transplants, but theoretically, a device that could "unblind" the extraction process would be very useful. Even for HST, you would be able to avoid extracting hairs in the telogen phase.

----------


## drnigams

Common IM , explain this to Arashi..you know it...If the lower regen in im's procedure was due to 20% fu being in telogen,than don't you understand the  traditional fue and fut procedure will also have 20% fu in telogen...which means no transplantation in the world can create more than 80% regrowth of transplanted fu...a good way to cover up your technique flaw of lower regen...





> That is correct! 
> Dr. Gho's preservation medium doesn't have the power to multiply follicles. The medium has just the power to keep the enclosed (but significantly reduced) cells within the follicle tissue not just alive - the medium has also the power to trigger healthy cell-proliferation/division in the grafts (aka "in vivo hair stem cell multiplication). All that (including some addition factors patients' get orally before and after the procedure) is Dr. Gho's rocket science ... lol ... often tried to copy - never reached ...

----------


## Arashi

> I'm not familar with the technology and how well it can be applied for hair transplants, but theoretically, a device that could "unblind" the extraction process would be very useful. Even for HST, you would be able to avoid extracting hairs in the telogen phase.


 But Dr Nigams never spoke about the telogen phase. He was only interested in cutting the graft at the right point. That's what I'm trying to say. If IM and GC are correct here, then Dr Nigams has been talking quite a bit of BS.

----------


## 534623

> gc,
> nsn shows 8 fu growing as doubles out of the 9 visible in the photo posted ,one extraction site was outside the frame of the photo,you can confirmt he same.
> Which means 90&#37; regeneration at donor.


 Could we see a high quality BEFORE photo of the birthmark area? No.

Could we see what exactly you extracted (just the follicles' tips??) around the birthmark area? No.

So far, you have proven absolutely NOTHING. Zilch, zero, nada <--that is much lesser than 100%! Just in case you have problems to understand ... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## drnigams

Does im bets on this...just google european patents by dr gho..there are few 2 to 3 such papers and you will find the following...
details about ecm like collagen ,laminin in preservation media to activate cd34+ stemcells in the extracted fu.
Roleof hdmc cell line in preservation medium,role of granulators like calcium chloride to speed up the activation process.
Nowhere as against the claim in their website  the invention in the patent paper mentions that they extract stemcell by their triple wave needle.

Now our friend im, has gone to the last resort the oral medications given before  and after the procedure  is the secret ingredient...i did not think the im the surgeon ...will become im the physician depending on his oral prescription to multiply follicles... 



> There you go Dr Nigam - Dr. Gho's preservation medium doesn't have the power to multiply follicles.
> 
> Straight fron Iron Man.
> 
> You must have misunderstood him somewhere to claim otherwise.

----------


## JJJJrS

> But Dr Nigams never spoke about the telogen phase. He was only interested in cutting the graft at the right point. That's what I'm trying to say. If IM and GC are correct here, then Dr Nigams has been talking quite a bit of BS.


 Maybe this image will clear things up:

----------


## 534623

> But Dr Nigams never spoke about the telogen phase. He was only interested in cutting the graft at the right point. That's what I'm trying to say. If IM and GC are correct here, then Dr Nigams has been talking quite a bit of BS.


 Do you think that, for example, someone like Dr. Cole would try to tell you BS concerning this issue?

----------


## hellouser

> Maybe this image will clear things up:


 That should clear things up for those going through shedding; it takes a minimum of 2 months to see a difference, and considering hair grows about 10cm/year then even after 3 months you'd still only see 1cm of hair, hence why noticeable (desired) results only come in at around 6 months or more. What also needs to be taken into account is that shedding doesnt start and stop all of a sudden, its a continuous process; we could be shedding from minoxidil/fin/ru/cb for sometime until things stabilize and we get consistency.

----------


## Arashi

> Maybe this image will clear things up:


 Actually, it only confuses me more: if Telogen is 5 weeks and anagen on average 4 years, then it doesn't explain the 80&#37; . 

5/(4*52) = 2.5% failed regrowth instead of 20%.

----------


## drnigams

gc, read the bold letters,
IM himself says the preservation medium triggers cell proliferation/cell division..please understand only one type of cells that is stemcells can proliferate..
That.s why he says his process is called hair stemcell.
And at the begining he says preservation medium does not multiply...im does not understands ..multiplication..cell division...proliferation ...is the same thing..!



> That is correct! 
> Dr. Gho's preservation medium doesn't have the power to multiply follicles. The medium has just the power to keep the enclosed (but significantly reduced) cells within the follicle tissue not just alive - *the medium has also the power to trigger healthy cell-proliferation/division in the grafts (aka "in vivo hair stem cell* multiplication). All that (including some additional factors patients' get orally before and after the procedure) is Dr. Gho's rocket science ... lol ... often tried to copy - but never reached ...

----------


## drnigams

Arashi,
I have it stored in my e drive,will post all the links of claims in patent as against claims mentioned on the website tmr.



> Do you have an URL/link please ?

----------


## Arashi

> Arashi,
> I have it stored in my e drive,will post all the links of claims in patent as against claims mentioned on the website tmr.


 I'm think I'm just reading it. You mean this, right: http://www.google.com/patents/EP1957...ed=0CDcQ6AEwAA

----------


## drnigams

Arashi is smart..just let everybody read it and say what do they claim from thier preservation medium...remember you cannot hide anythting when you submit a paent application for a process...and compare with all the rubbish im is talking.. to misguide the members...



> I'm think I'm just reading it. You mean this, right: http://www.google.com/patents/EP1957...ed=0CDcQ6AEwAA

----------


## 534623

> Does im bets on this...just google european patents by dr gho..there are few 2 to 3 such papers and you will find the following...
> details about ecm like collagen ,laminin in preservation media to activate cd34+ stemcells in the extracted fu.
> Roleof hdmc cell line in preservation medium,role of granulators like calcium chloride to speed up the activation process.
> Nowhere as against the claim in their website  the invention in the patent paper mentions that they extract stemcell by their triple wave needle.


 Oh, really?


Just because an idiot like you can't find the proper information - it doesn't mean that something doesn't exist.

----------


## drnigams

IM , just read was arashi is readind in the link provided by her..this needle thing is just about grafts harvesting or do you believe you can harvest stemcells with this...stick to the point in discussion..losers lose their temper when they have nothing to talk...it says method 
*Read it properly .of harvesting the hair for  transplant ( not harvesting stemcells)* 




> Oh, really?
> 
> 
> Just because an idiot like you can't find the proper information - it doesn't mean that something doesn't exist.

----------


## hellouser

> Oh, really?
> 
> 
> *Just because an idiot like you* can't find the proper information - it doesn't mean that something doesn't exist.


 Unnecessary and uncalled for.

----------


## 534623

> IM , just read was arashi is readind in the link provided by her..this needle thing is just about grafts harvesting or *do you believe you can harvest stemcells with this*...stick to the point in discussion..losers lose their temper when they have nothing to talk..


 What an incompetent question ...seriously...

Is here anywhere a layman who believes that someone can extract with a special needle a part of these with markers labeled stem cells  ...

http://www.hasci.com/en/science/  (scroll down to THE pic!)

... he found within hair follicles in previous studies? No?

----------


## Arashi

I'm getting quite a bit confused by reading that HASCI patent.

A graft contains follicles and follicles produce hair. I always was under the impression that the main idea of Gho's technology was that if you don't tranplant the whole graft but only a part, then both parts will regenerate using stem cells.

However reading that patent they're talking about transplanting the hair (the dead material), when stem cells are still connected to it and that these stem cells are activated by the medium and hence start growing new hairs ? I'm very confused here. How can stem cells generate hair ? Stem cells can generate grafts and follicles, which in turn can generate hair.

It's getting late here and am probably reading things wrong and should probably stop posting at this point  :Wink:  See you tomorrow  :Smile:

----------


## drnigams

EP 1957092 B1
Abstract  (text from WO2007061291A2)

A method is described for the reproduction of hair by removing hair in the anagen phase in such a way that the hair stem cells which are responsible for hair growth are still attached to the hair removed, bringing these into contact with extracellular matrix components or substitutes therefor, and implanting the hair in the scalp. The application of extracellular matrix components or substitutes therefor for the reproduction of hair is also described.



> Arashi is smart..just let everybody read it and say what do they claim from thier preservation medium...remember you cannot hide anythting when you submit a paent application for a process...and compare with all the rubbish im is talking.. to misguide the members...

----------


## Arashi

So basically what HASCI says is that a mixture of stem cells, hair and their activation medium can generate new grafts ? Is that it ?

----------


## 534623

> EP 1957092 B1
> Abstract  (text from WO2007061291A2)
> 
> A method is described for the reproduction of hair by *removing hair in the anagen phase in such a way that the hair stem cells which are responsible for hair growth are still attached to the hair removed*, bringing these into contact with extracellular matrix components or substitutes therefor, and implanting the hair in the scalp. The application of extracellular matrix components or substitutes therefor for the reproduction of hair is also described.


 And? What part of this don't you understand?
Is it "the way" how to do it you don't understand? lol

So WHICH hair stem cells should be still attached to the hair you remove?
Right, those hair stem cells, which are responsible for har growth. lol

----------


## drnigams

It is the claim...but niether there does stemcell have any role in thier procedure ... neither their preservation medium even remotely can activate any stemcells...



> So basically what HASCI says is that a mixture of stem cells, hair and their activation medium can generate new grafts ? Is that it ?

----------


## Arashi

> It is the claim...but niether there does stemcell have any role in thier procedure ... neither their preservation medium even remotely can activate any stemcells...


 I'm confused by the technology. I love it from the pratical point of view, the results, but the science is quite confusing at least to me  :Smile:  

I'm off for today ..

----------


## drnigams

Than call it such a way hair transplant...why does im calls...stemcell transplant...this way even fue and fut are stemcell hair transplant... as they also carry the inherent stemcells with the follicles when transplnated at the recipient....



> And? What part of this don't you understand?
> Is it "the way" how to do it you don't understand? lol

----------


## 534623

> It is the claim...but niether there does stemcell have any role in thier procedure ... neither their preservation medium even remotely can activate any stemcells...


 Excuse me, but how do you know that Dr. Gho's preservation medium is unable to activate stem cells??

Did you ever try out his preservation medium? Did you steal it from his lab or what??

----------


## drnigams

If you are ready to be neutral for some time...there will be shocking hews for you..regarding your question..my friend im..



> Excuse me, but how do you know that Dr. Gho's preservation medium is unable to activate stem cells??
> 
> Did you ever try out his preservation medium? Did you steal it from his lab or what??

----------


## 534623

> Than call it such a way hair transplant...why does im calls...stemcell transplant...this way even fue and fut are stemcell hair transplant... as they also carry the inherent stemcells with the follicles when transplnated at the recipient....


 Here you show just again your incompetence ...

If Mr. Walt Disney doesn't have a problem with that - Dr. Gho could even market his HST procedure as "Mickey Mouse Transplantation". The scientific name for the HST technique is "Partial Longitudinal Follicular Unit Transplantation" (PL-FUT).
Do you also have a problem with this name/term??

Concerning that even FUE and FUT _"are stemcell hair transplant... as they also carry the inherent stemcells with the follicles when transplnated at the recipient"_ - yeah, as the heart, liver, kidney and many other organs in the human body, the hair follicle IS also one of these ORGANS, even it is just very small. So if a surgeon is able to transplant just *a part* of the heart or  liver or kidney OR hair follicle - would you still consider such a ("crazy") procedure as "organ transplant"??

No serious scientist out there would still call such a procedure "organ transplant".

----------


## UK_

> Here you show just again your incompetence ...
> 
> If Mr. Walt Disney doesn't have a problem with it - Dr. Gho could even market his HST procedure as "Mickey Mouse Transplantation". The scientific name for the HST technique is "Partial Longitudinal Follicular Unit Transplantation" (PL-FUT).
> Do you also have a problem with this name/term??
> 
> Concerning that even FUE and FUT _"are stemcell hair transplant... as they also carry the inherent stemcells with the follicles when transplnated at the recipient"_ - yeah, as the heart, liver, kidney and many other organs in the human body, the hair follicle IS also one of these ORGANS, even it is just very small. So if a surgeon is able to transplant just a part of the heart or  liver or kidney OR hair follicle - would you still consider such a ("crazy") procedure as "organ transplant"??
> 
> No serious scientist out there would still call such a procedure "organ transplant".


 Yes and before Histogen released their phase 2 trials which showed growth in temporal regions you were on the forums saying we might aswel invent a "liver stimulating complex".

----------


## drnigams

IM,
There is nothing to steal, when it is an ILLUSION.
In the last posts you said PRESERVATION MEDIUM DOES NOT MULTIPLY FOLLICLES...and now you ask the questions how do i know that PRESERVATION MEDIUM is unable to activate stemcells....
My dear friend nothing on planet earth as on today known to mankind can in any significant way activate stemcells...all are theories..One of the main reason is..unless and until hair stemcells are first isolated or removed from the sorrounding cells including all types of cells even in a follicle..They cannot be converted to progenitor or active stemcells....secondly a such a small dose of stemcells present in afollicle cannot play any role in creating or boosting proliferation ...why me, aderans have to culture the same for atleast 6 weeks to create a sufficient high dose of active stemcells in the lab...patent paper also mentions this....Patent says..that the partial follicle ...has inherent stemcell(which are also their in transected fue,) and may be the preservation medium can activate it...remember MAY BE...which is an ILLUSION.
I have masters in biotechnology...ask in other biotech you know..atleast you will believe then....
If you see a rope as a snake ...what can i do ..except to tell you this is an ILLUSION.. wake up and don't be afraid...




> Excuse me, but how do you know that Dr. Gho's preservation medium is unable to activate stem cells??
> 
> Did you ever try out his preservation medium? Did you steal it from his lab or what??

----------


## drnigams

Now you have accepted it is a technique called and it's actual name  is......'Partial Longitudnal FOLLICULAR( not follicle,another ILLUSION) UNIT TRANSPLANT.... but for marketing ... ...im calls it the rocket science...STEMCELL HAIR TRANSPLANT...as if ...im.. is extracting..implanting..multiplying stemcells and thus follicular unit...
Also remember no follicle is bisected ..the follicular unit is bisected..ultimately it is in vivo bisection of follicles and nothing more..im can  always add something in his illusionary preservation medium and keep upgrading it's name ...to stemcell hair transplant to differentiate itself from others for.. im's own benefit..
Wake up ironman...! Face the truth..for only truth shall prevail.. 
I never wanted to speak...but i told you, i will have to speak out..if you continuously and without logic and in a biased way,  instigate me..I than have the  full rights to defend myself....




> Here you show just again your incompetence ...
> 
> If Mr. Walt Disney doesn't have a problem with that - Dr. Gho could even market his HST procedure as "Mickey Mouse Transplantation". The scientific name for the HST technique is "Partial Longitudinal Follicular Unit Transplantation" (PL-FUT).
> Do you also have a problem with this name/term??
> 
> Concerning that even FUE and FUT _"are stemcell hair transplant... as they also carry the inherent stemcells with the follicles when transplnated at the recipient"_ - yeah, as the heart, liver, kidney and many other organs in the human body, the hair follicle IS also one of these ORGANS, even it is just very small. So if a surgeon is able to transplant just *a part* of the heart or  liver or kidney OR hair follicle - would you still consider such a ("crazy") procedure as "organ transplant"??
> 
> No serious scientist out there would still call such a procedure "organ transplant".

----------


## drnigams

The stuff i mentioned is also *may be*...the real thing which i add is activated stemcells and the mesenchymal dp cells...
IM is trying to activate stemcells(previous decade technology) and the somewhere far from im someone is injecting activated and multiplied high therapeutic dosage of stemcells and dp cells...




> I heard about a guy from India, who mentioned almost in every post he made at hair loss forums that he "injected stuff to activate hair stem cells". Sorry, but I can't remember his name anymore ...

----------


## 534623

> Oh, really?


 By the way ...
*"...harvesting hair for transplants by SPLITTING A DONOR HAIR FOLLICLE IN ITS LENGTH DIRECTION"*

Yeah, that's exactly what Dr. Gho is doing with his HST procedure; because he DOES, intentionally, damage the critical atomical portions of hair follicles.

And here is Dr. Rassman's hair transplant/needle patent *for normal FUE*:

http://www.google.com/patents/US6572625 
*"The harvesting of hair for a hair transplant procedure employs a hollow drill with an imaging system which permits alignment of center of the cutting edge of the needle with the axis of the follicular unit to be removed. The diameter of the needle is chosen such that when properly aligned, a follicular unit is removed without damaging critical anatomical portions of the follicles."*

Sure, because with normal FUE (extraction and transplantation of complete hair follicle organs), the intention has always been to extract the grafts without damaging the follicles - exactly the contrary to Gho's HST.

So everything is clear like the sky - no? lol

----------


## drnigams

IM,
I remember your name.
You do mechanical engineering with the follicle(era of 1940's) fortunately we are into regenerative tissue engineering(the era of the future  medical science) of hair follicle.
You cut whichever way you want to cut the follicular unit and damage whichever critical part/s of the follicle or FU you want.(precisely you are interested in mid follicle bulge, to injure it and get cd34+ cells,which by the way is not seen even with naked eye in humans as against in mouse)

(This can also be done better  than with blind technique of yours, by using imaging ultrasound or  imaging camera with bio-optic fibre like Dr rassman)
You yourself said every follicle alignment,length,and orientation differs patient to patient and also within a patient,still you want to remain blind even if you want to access a specific part of the follicle under the skin,it's better to give eyes to your technique)

Now, do you in your wildest optimistic imagination think that by damaging the critical part of a follicle ,and even with getting the part of FU of your choice,
suddenly inherent stemcells of the bulge of the follicle will get activated and become progenitor stemcell and that too in quantities in millions in 2 hours in your preservation medium, and without the dermal papilla and that too without  potent dermal papilla culture...you can multiply follicle in vivo(which is an ILLUSION and paradoxically you yourself claim 80&#37; donor regen and may be 70% recipient regen ,which you hardly show.
Use common sense..aderans, myself have all the above,which you do not have to create follicles or multiply them(not just bulge cd3+ but all other stemcells of outer root sheath,dermal cup sheath,mesenchymal dermal cells,dp culture,all imp serum free growth factors, still with pure HM we are approx. 50% successful.
As i told before we are into Regenerative tissue engineering of hair follicle and not mechanical damaging of hair follicle except one bisection with plane simple incision.
When we cam pluck a follicle/FU under imaging and regenerate donor completely(except 2 to 3% human error) and recipient 80 to 90%,patient can  come for 2 visits in 4 months and get converted to nw1/2 from nw6/7
which you will see on forum members shortly.
Why should i go back to mechanical engineering of the follicle and unnecessary make regen complicated ,slow and expensive,in multiple sittings.
Now i understand why im does not discuss or face questions much about his technique...because there is nothing more than special way longitudnally damaging of follicle/FU and all the stemcell regen is ILLUSON  for positioning...and differentiation. 
people have also tried HT with dermaroller to activate stemcells by wounding with little success.
Im whatever regen you are getting is only because of invivo bisection of the follicle/follicular unit.
Add activated and multiplied stemcells,dp cells,dp and see the regen..as i showed in the regen of nsn birth mark,and 15graft patch test ...,more to come !




> By the way ...
> *"...harvesting hair for transplants by SPLITTING A DONOR HAIR FOLLICLE IN ITS LENGTH DIRECTION"*
> 
> Yeah, that's exactly what Dr. Gho is doing with his HST procedure; because he DOES, intentionally, damage the critical atomical portions of hair follicles.
> 
> And here is Dr. Rassman's hair transplant/needle patent *for normal FUE*:
> 
> http://www.google.com/patents/US6572625 
> *"The harvesting of hair for a hair transplant procedure employs a hollow drill with an imaging system which permits alignment of center of the cutting edge of the needle with the axis of the follicular unit to be removed. The diameter of the needle is chosen such that when properly aligned, a follicular unit is removed without damaging critical anatomical portions of the follicles."*
> ...

----------


## didi

we have some interesting discussion here...

dr nigam destroyed IM...

so we came to conclusion 'Gho juice' is an illusion, preservation medium does not have any magic powers to activate stem cells

HST is just another version of FUE, I said it before, you could call FUE/FUT stem cell transplant.....
clever marketing trick, who says Gho is a bad businessman?


I wanna mention that GHos HST dsnt regenerate 80% as claimed,

respected member JJJJrS analized GCs transplant and found that only 50%  of FUs FULLY regenerated, 30% partialy or with thinner hairs and 20% didnt regenerate at all....
so if we count number of HAIRS (not FUs) in donor region then regeneration is 65%....not 80....

JJJJr can confirm exact % of regeneration...


I also analized recipient and theres 1.35 hair/graft instead of 2.5 as claimed on website...

These are the facts, it cant be disputed..I know IM gets angry when talking abt these numbers...he prefers coping and pasting some Gho mambo jumbo....

----------


## didi

DrNigam


do you find it hard to beleive that 8 years after HST started by dr gho there is no single NW5/6/7  to nw 2/1 transformation? HASCI clinics have 2-3 patients per day for the past 7-8 years...thats many 1000s of patients so far...


With their hair multiplication technique you would think that there would be many cases out there with high density  recipient, yet dr gho is giving conservative hairlines 

_Hair Stem Cell Transplantation&#174; (HST) is a procedure developed and patented 
by the Hair Science Institute. It doesn’t actually involve hair transplantation but rather hair multiplication._



WHat is your explanation

----------


## Joker

Dr. Nigam, 

Please do not bring Dr. Gho into this. It will only create more problems and slow down your progress. There is no need to get agitated over anything that Iron Man says on these forums. Absolutely no one takes him seriously. You should not either. 

Keep your hands clean, and just focus on your own research. We really need you to be successful and we cannot afford to have you stuck in litigation against Dr. Gho. That is exactly what your detractors want. DON'T DO IT. 

Thanks again for all of your work, 
Joker

----------


## Arashi

> I also analized recipient and theres 1.35 hair/graft instead of 2.5 as claimed on website...


 Hehe. I thought you were going to do a useful count. Like counting the amount of HAIRS in the extracted grafts vs the amount of added HAIRS in the recipient. That would mean something. Comparing the average hair/graft in a specific patient to the average, how is that useful exactly ?

I myself have unfortunately a lot of 1 hair grafts in my donor (and am really jealous of for example NSN, who has tons of 3 hair grafts). It obviously varies between patients so comparing a patient to the average is pretty useless. But comparing harvested hairs/graft in donor vs new hairs/graft in recipient, THAT would be interesting (and I was under the impression you were going to research THAT).

----------


## Arashi

> Dr. Nigam, 
> 
> Please do not bring Dr. Gho into this. It will only create more problems and slow down your progress. There is no need to get agitated over anything that Iron Man says on these forums.


 Totally agreed. You keep talking to IM like he's working for HASCI. Did you see the picture of his scalp ? Now try to pinpoint him on the HASCI website where they show employees ok ? http://www.hasci.com/en/the-institute/who-we-are/

 It's plain crazy to suggest IM works for HASCI, he would do the company a lot more harm than good. And I think you know pretty damn well that he doesn't work for HASCI. 

I'd say, show us PROOF of your technique. Like shoot some good pre-op & post-op photo's of the patients you're going to treat soon, like that guy from the Netherlands. THAT will be useful to people here. All that mambo jambo talk about cd34+ cells, progenitor cells etc, sounds very nice and all, but who cares, it's RESULTS we want to see.

----------


## blowmeup

Don't worry about IM Dr. Nigam, nobody takes him seriously. He's obviously a really antisocial recluse who needs the attention he gets on the forums.  I can only imagine how sad his real life must be.

----------


## Arashi

> I wanna mention that GHos HST dsnt regenerate 80&#37; as claimed,
> 
> respected member JJJJrS analized GCs transplant and found that only 50%  of FUs FULLY regenerated, 30% partialy or with thinner hairs and 20% didnt regenerate at all....
> so if we count number of HAIRS (not FUs) in donor region then regeneration is 65%....not 80....
> 
> JJJJr can confirm exact % of regeneration...


 This actually, Didi, is a very good point and we have to thank JJJJrS for analysing and finding this. However 65% regeneration is still 65% more than FUE. 

If Dr Nigams could for example show us proof of 80% REAL regeneration, than that would be huge. But for now all we've seen are:

1) photoshopped photo's
2) photo's from his staff member, which for several reasons outlined are not valid at all
3) a photo of the few grafts surrounding NSN's birthmark. He magically disappeared after this, never showed us another photo. And you Dr Nigams never supplied us with any pre-op photo's either.

Again, I'm not here to bash you. But I merely want to point out: focus on proving YOUR technique and stop arguing with people over Gho. We KNOW what Gho's numbers are. Now we want to find out yours.

----------


## UK_

Whats the issue with the birthmark photo?  I thought we had established 80% regeneration - or have we all changed our minds now?

----------


## Arashi

> Whats the issue with the birthmark photo?  I thought we had established 80&#37; regeneration - or have we all changed our minds now?


 Yeah 80% regenerated around the birthmark but it's very weak proof, since IF dr Nigam wanted to cheat, he'd obviously do so around the birthmark area, since he'd know we'd focus on that. That is why we need to see a photo of the rest of NSN's donor. If that shows us 80% regeneration, then that's a great thing. We of course cant establish the TRUE regeneration (or let's call it hair regeneration instead of graft regeneration), cause we never got to see pre-op photo's of the area. But at least we'd know that regeneration really occurs to a certain extend.

----------


## UK_

> Yeah 80&#37; regenerated around the birthmark but it's very weak proof, since IF dr Nigam wanted to cheat, he'd obviously do so around the birthmark area, since he'd know we'd focus on that. That is why we need to see a photo of the rest of NSN's donor. If that shows us 80% regeneration, then that's a great thing. We of course cant establish the TRUE regeneration (or let's call it hair regeneration instead of graft regeneration), cause we never got to see pre-op photo's of the area. But at least we'd know that regeneration really occurs to a certain extend.


 Cheat?  You mean if he tried to fool us by implanting other hairs into the extraction sites around the birthmark?  Sorry but that just doesnt sit right with me - it'd be too hard to pull off and far too obvious given how clear the images are.  

If Gho can produce 80% regeneration I dont see why other doctors cant do the same for a lower price.  This looks like the next leap in hair transplantation surgeons have been expecting for years, the next will be cell based transplantation (HM).

----------


## Arashi

> Cheat?  You mean if he tried to fool us by implanting other hairs into the extraction sites around the birthmark?  Sorry but that just doesnt sit right with me - it'd be too hard to pull off and far too obvious given how clear the images are.


 No, it's really easy to pull that off. Just extract small portion of the skin and leave the grafts in tact, that's all.

Again, I want to make it clear: I am NOT suggesting he did this. But I AM suggesting that after the photoshopped pictures, I'm extremely skeptical and I want to see SOLID proof, like a photo of the whole area and not just the birthmark.




> If Gho can produce 80&#37; regeneration I dont see why other doctors cant do the same for a lower price.


 Maybe, maybe not. I haven't studied all this so I don't know how hard it is and how important his 'preservation medium' really is. All I do know is Gho publicized several scientific articles in peer magazines. We've seen NOTHING from Dr Nigams in the scientific world. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean he can't pull it off. Again, I'm not educated enough on the subject to make a good guess about it. 

I'm just saying: show us SOLID proof.

----------


## didi

Maybe, maybe not. I haven't studied all this so I don't know how hard it is and how important his *'preservation medium' really is. All I do know is Gho publicized several scientific articles in peer magazines.* We've seen NOTHING from Dr Nigams in the scientific world. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean he can't pull it off. Again, I'm not educated enough on the subject to make a good guess about it. 

I'm just saying: show us SOLID proof.[/QUOTE]


preservation medium is fertilizer which helps with growth in recipient area, thats my understanding... does it really help and to what degree it helps?? ;
as for publishing articles; it doesnt mean sh!t, spence said on his show tht anybody can publish anything, there are some good material and some rubish..

----------


## Arashi

> preservation medium is fertilizer which helps with growth in recipient area, thats my understanding... does it really help and to what degree it helps??


 That's exactly my question and we both really are not in any position to make a good estimate about it. Even Dr Nigams isn't cause he doesn't know what's in it. Maybe it's just a bunch of crap. Maybe it isn't. I don't know and frankly I don't even care. We KNOW Gho's numbers. Now we want to find out Nigam's numbers. That's all.




> as for publishing articles; it doesnt mean sh!t, spence said on his show tht anybody can publish anything, there are some good material and some rubish..


 You can publish an article yourself. Gho however got his articles published in the "British journal of Dermatology". They won't publicize it if you just mail them a bunch of crap, you know that.

I'm just saying I find it very weird we haven't seen any scientific articles form this doctor in India who all of sudden supposedly is offering the very best technique in the world. Again, not saying it's imposisble but it does feed my skepticism. Hence again, just show us SOLID proof. A photo of NSN's donor would be a VERY VERY good beginning, I think we can all agree on that, right ?

----------


## didi

actually Ghos preservtion medium in not secret, its been published. Iron man can post ingredients of it

Gho makes it sound its all abt medium and he said in interview that  FUE docs dont use  that medium and  yield is only 60&#37;.
FUE drs use saline solution i think


You can publish an article yourself. Gho however got his articles published in the "British journal of Dermatology

This still doesnt mean sh1t, what does british journal know , they didnt test it??, they see interesting study and publish it, it doesnt mean it works as claimed 
Spencer talked abt this issue on his last show.

----------


## Arashi

> actually Ghos preservtion medium in not secret, its been published. Iron man can post ingredients of it
> 
> Gho makes it sound its all abt medium and he said in interview that  FUE docs dont use  that medium and  yield is only 60%.
> FUE drs use saline solution i think
> 
> 
> You can publish an article yourself. Gho however got his articles published in the "British journal of Dermatology
> 
> This still doesnt mean sh1t, what does british journal know , they didnt test it??, they see interesting study and publish it, it doesnt mean it works as claimed 
> Spencer talked abt this issue on his last show.


 Look, we can keep playing this yes/no game about pretty much everything. I'm not interested in it. I want to see SOLID proof. A picture of NSN's donor would be a good start and if, for reasons beyond me, NSN does not want to post that picture, then Dr Nigam should try to get his next patients to do just that. I find it stunning that after giving a patient $5000 discount on the price, for participating in a TEST, that all of a sudden the patient doesn't want to participate anymore.

Just show us proof. All the rest I don't care about.

----------


## didi

What happened to OBI?

NVN had some family issues ,  I dont think NSN has been bribed by dr nigam..even though they are both indians ..i beleive NSN result will be make or break for nigam

if NSN says, no regrowth, donor depleted it will be end of dr nigam...if he is happy, good yield+regeneration then it will be great

----------


## Arashi

> What happened to OBI?
> 
> NVN had some family issues ,  I dont think NSN has been bribed by dr nigam..even though they are both indians ..i beleive NSN result will be make or break for nigam
> 
> if NSN says, no regrowth, donor depleted it will be end of dr nigam...if he is happy, good yield+regeneration then it will be great


 OBI's result would take 6 months to become visible according to Nigams, so we'd have to wait a few more months.

NSN had family issue's and I can understand he doesn't feel like visiting the forums a lot. But then again, he DID visit the forums to post comments and photo's of his birthmark. All we need is 5 minutes of his time to shoot and post a photo of his donor.

----------


## 534623

> if NSN says, no regrowth, donor depleted it will be end of dr nigam...if he is happy, good yield+regeneration then it will be great


 And then you will buy it - right?

Anyway, deleting all my previous posts - yeah, pretty good idea ...

----------


## Ginkgo

Hi,

After having one procedure with HASCI, i'm planning my next move which could be a second visit with them or a future alternative.

I've been following the development of this thread, and have found it informative and amusing in parts. Anyway I'm sure I read somewhere about Dr Nigams plan to open in UK but can't seem to locate it. 

If someone or Dr Nigam could provide this information and what may be offered, that would be really appreciated. I understand that due to certain UK restrictions stem cell injections may not be possible and it could only be doubling?

----------


## 534623

> If someone or Dr Nigam could provide this information and *what may be offered*...


 Perhaps a "something procedure" *for free* if you allow Dr. Nigam to post fraudulent claims about your HST procedure - as in neversaynever's case:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=11858

----------


## drnigams

Ginkgo,
I will shortly open PATIENT INFORMATION ,COORDINATION(PRE&POST),AND RESULT FOLLOWUP office at london,should finalizewhen i visit london in 1st week of may2013.
Gradually i will talk to stemcell regulatory bodies and medical practice regulatory authorities on what can i use as boosters at recipient and what i won't be able to use.Meeting jahoda,the famous uk stemcell hair regen scientist will also clear regulatory issues.
We may do every thing thier ,but i don't think you will mind going to india,mumbai in the morning and come back by night flight or the next morning,and yes we will pay for your trip.This is to give you stemcell,growthfactor injections on newly bisected grafts at the recipient.
Imagine if one patient result is less than expected ,how will i be bashed up and my credibility can be destroyed.(although many of the members don't scrutinize others with the same yardstick,and just go be name,marketing,papers etc.)
So when i take a forum guy as my patient ...i will go that extra mile.
It would be amazing to compare in your case the HST results of your previous procedure provided you have taken good quality pics as required by GC.
Money is the least consideration for me from forums for atleast 3months with 5 independent documentations,those who are ready to document their case properly.On 23/24th april i am doing megasession of doubling and hm on a forum member.
QUOTE=Ginkgo;114752]Hi,

After having one procedure with HASCI, i'm planning my next move which could be a second visit with them or a future alternative.

I've been following the development of this thread, and have found it informative and amusing in parts. Anyway I'm sure I read somewhere about Dr Nigams plan to open in UK but can't seem to locate it. 

If someone or Dr Nigam could provide this information and what may be offered, that would be really appreciated. I understand that due to certain UK restrictions stem cell injections may not be possible and it could only be doubling?[/QUOTE]

----------


## drnigams

IM,
Do you know ,inspite majority members asking me not to communicate with you,i am still.
Because you are biased and hardest possible critic and many a times without logic...yes sometimes the research papers you post saves my time,also more you post, more easily without being blamed as fellow colleague of a doctor  i am forced to speak get easy chance to expose certain expects of a particular technique.
I will be most satisfied the day your scalp will filled up dense hair.Not multiple small sessions just to camou
flage baldness.
And take my word ...it will happen..!



> Perhaps a "something procedure" *for free* if you allow Dr. Nigam to post fraudulent claims about your HST procedure - as in neversaynever's case:
> 
> http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=11858

----------


## didi

How abt opening clinic in Turkey, India will be too far to fly for some, not convinient

Dr nigam 

you started doubling about 6 months ago

How many doubling procedures are you performing per day/week/month?

----------


## didi

Dr nigam, 

we need procedure that will overcome  HSTs limitations, (very small sessions spaced at least 9 months apart), for high NWs is just not practical...I mean, who can wait 6+ years to finish process...plus prices which are sky high, taking advantage of unlucky sufferers

Iron man will be 60 years old by the time he receives 10 000 hst grafts..no wonder he  exibits psychopathic/anti-social behavior

----------


## Ginkgo

> Ginkgo,
> I will shortly open PATIENT INFORMATION ,COORDINATION(PRE&POST),AND RESULT FOLLOWUP office at london,should finalizewhen i visit london in 1st week of may2013.
> Gradually i will talk to stemcell regulatory bodies and medical practice regulatory authorities on what can i use as boosters at recipient and what i won't be able to use.Meeting jahoda,the famous uk stemcell hair regen scientist will also clear regulatory issues.
> We may do every thing thier ,but i don't think you will mind going to india,mumbai in the morning and come back by night flight or the next morning,and yes we will pay for your trip.This is to give you stemcell,growthfactor injections on newly bisected grafts at the recipient.
> Imagine if one patient result is less than expected ,how will i be bashed up and my credibility can be destroyed.(although many of the members don't scrutinize others with the same yardstick,and just go be name,marketing,papers etc.)
> So when i take a forum guy as my patient ...i will go that extra mile.
> It would be amazing to compare in your case the HST results of your previous procedure provided you have taken good quality pics as required by GC.
> Money is the least consideration for me from forums for atleast 3months with 5 independent documentations,those who are ready to document their case properly.On 23/24th april i am doing megasession of doubling and hm on a forum member.


 Dr Nigram,

Thank you for the response, your promptness is refreshing!

It sounds as if London may only be a base for consultations rather than treatment in the initial instance? I wonder if your results from doubling without stemcell boosters/growth factors is comparable to HASCI, and could this therefore be available shortly in the UK? As others have mentioned I'm not sure how comfortable I am regarding long-term safety of certain injections, but I'm sure this could be proved over time.

Thanks

----------


## drnigams

Ginkgo,
Regarding ingredients of product used,
we explain and show international documentation and studies to the patient and FDA recommendationsof pros and cons for the patients  who wants to know about it. 
And after his consent we reduce or increase the products used for hm and doubling.
I have done it on myself ,my sister,there are lot of checks in place,any way what i am offering will be legal in next 5 years once aderans ,histogen and others get the clearance of regulatoy authorities.
Better than HASCI results at half  because i have the advantage of dp cells and dp whic have no prob's regarding regulations, it's an innovative approach others will also offer shortly after visiting the forums.
But i would not go back into other techniques when we have better option,i am looking for blueseed.co.in which is outside usa international water border with open regulations.for usa market.This is the place for innovators.

=Ginkgo;114831]Dr Nigram,

Thank you for the response, your promptness is refreshing!

It sounds as if London may only be a base for consultations rather than treatment in the initial instance? I wonder if your results from doubling without stemcell boosters/growth factors is comparable to HASCI, and could this therefore be available shortly in the UK? As others have mentioned I'm not sure how comfortable I am regarding long-term safety of certain injections, but I'm sure this could be proved over time.

Thanks[/QUOTE]

----------


## drnigams

DIDI,I was there in turkey few months back,
I met few doctors and they will mail me regarding the regulations ,they had no idea what i wwas talking they were traditional fut/fue surgeons.
DIDI ,GC,arashiu,IM,
your comments required 
on the patch test i am performing the day after
NAME of the procedure-STEMCELLS-PLUCK & IMPLANT ....the new MPB solution.
USP of the procedure--100% guarantee of donor regen,no punch,no needle use,no mark, donor,repeat use of donor in 1month,most cost effective.Conversion of nw7 to nw1/2 in 2 sessions i month apart each session of 3 to 4 days.
 As you see in the picture before this is the picture of the same guy of 15 G patch test .

As you can see the safe donor area of most of the patient is spread between a length of 40 to 45 cm an average width of 8 cm. 

That means we have total safe donor area of 320 to 360 sq cm.

Density of various people may range from 30 to 90 graft per sq cm at the safe donor area. 

For Donor Density of 30 graft per sq cm patient we have access to 9600 graft and 
For 40 graft per sq cm we have 12800
For 50 graft per sq cm 16000

Now since we are not even giving a pin prick at the donor but plucking the hair like eye brow (but yes in a special way with special equipment so that I should have at least 3 mm part of hair follicle from the skin surface under ultra sound guidance.

Even if we get 50% regeneration (Although i expect at least 70% regen at the recipient after refinement of technique) with addition of activated stem cells, DP Cells, DP, ECM, PRP, Growth factors. The plucked follicle will have bulge area of stem cells which are rich in CD 34 + stem cells and they can be considered as partial hair. The DP part which is missing in the plucked follicle will be compensated by DP cells and DP injection from the few body hair.

Like eye brow plucking where the donor cannot be damage I can easily pluck 4000 grafts per day and can implant at the recipient. Hence in 3 days we can have 12000 grafts. NW7 to NW2 lesser NW will require lesser time. With 50% regeneration the procedure can repeated after one month, the time when the donor grafts is re-visible again for plucking.



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/M...t/Large/01.JPG



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http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/M...t/Large/02.JPG



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http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/M...t/Large/07.JPG



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/M...t/Large/08.JPG

stemcells


> Dr nigam, 
> 
> we need procedure that will overcome  HSTs limitations, (very small sessions spaced at least 9 months apart), for high NWs is just not practical...I mean, who can wait 6+ years to finish process...plus prices which are sky high, taking advantage of unlucky sufferers
> 
> Iron man will be 60 years old by the time he receives 10 000 hst grafts..no wonder he  exibits psychopathic/anti-social behavior

----------


## UK Boy

> Ginkgo,
> Regarding ingredients of product used,
> we explain and show international documentation and studies to the patient and FDA recommendationsof pros and cons for the patients  who wants to know about it. 
> And after his consent we reduce or increase the products used for hm and doubling.
> I have done it on myself ,my sister,there are lot of checks in place,any way what i am offering will be legal in next 5 years once aderans ,histogen and others get the clearance of regulatoy authorities.
> Better than HASCI results at half  because i have the advantage of dp cells and dp whic have no prob's regarding regulations, it's an innovative approach others will also offer shortly after visiting the forums.
> But i would not go back into other techniques when we have better option,*i am looking for blueseed.co.in which is outside usa international water border with open regulations.for usa market.This is the place for innovators.*=Ginkgo;114831]Dr Nigram,
> 
> Thank you for the response, your promptness is refreshing!
> ...


 [/QUOTE]

You're certainly researching a lot of avenues Dr. Nigam and that is both extremely refreshing and exciting. It says that Blueseed will hopefully launch between Q2 and Q3 next year so by the end of 2014 you could have your own clinic offering all your procedures in US waters, is that correct? Will you be seeking FDA and other regulatory approval whilst offering these treatments to those who want to travel out of regulatory jurisdiction? 

Dr. Nigam how are you finding the time to do all this stuff!?  :Smile:  and then come on and answer all our questions so promtly, maybe you're further along in cloning than we realise and you've cloned yourself  :Smile:  

Given that regualtions are different in India why are there not other India doctors working on this? Or why haven't companies such as Aderans and Replicel done work in India?

Please continue to update us on all your new ventures and good luck with everything Dr. Nigam.

----------


## drnigams

You're certainly researching a lot of avenues Dr. Nigam and that is both extremely refreshing and exciting. It says that Blueseed will hopefully launch between Q2 and Q3 next year so by the end of 2014 you could have your own clinic offering all your procedures in US waters, is that correct? Will you be seeking FDA and other regulatory approval whilst offering these treatments to those who want to travel out of regulatory jurisdiction? 

Dr. Nigam how are you finding the time to do all this stuff!?  :Smile:  and then come on and answer all our questions so promtly, maybe you're further along in cloning than we realise and you've cloned yourself  :Smile:  

Given that regualtions are different in India why are there not other India doctors working on this? Or why haven't companies such as Aderans and Replicel done work in India?

Please continue to update us on all your new ventures and good luck with everything Dr. Nigam.[/QUOTE]

----------


## caddarik79

Dear Dr Nigam,

You seem promising and very confident with the future of hair multiplication>
At this moment, I still need some more proofs and that you become more mainstream>>> but for sure, if you become the reference and if all what you claim is becoming concrete, approved and real, i will not mind flying to India to get my hair restored at a reasonnable fare and reasonnable rythm>

Can you summarise a bit about where we are TODAY and what you are sure you will reah withing 2 or 3 years?

Thank you

----------


## drnigams

That's why i like you all,you all are much more street smart mba's than big degree holders.
I believe in being a street smart doctor,I am a fan of american way of looking at problems.
We all know ,the best way of getting rid of a problem is to SOLVE IT.
DARKNESS IS ILLUSION AND NOTHING BUT ABSENCE OF LIGHT..
You are correct ,aderans who have bought 90 clinics of bosley clinics in USA,which were also created by a HT doctor,
I Will be mailing to aderans next week and asking them if they are open to collaborate for indian market with my chain of clinics in india and my lab or take over my company or some share holding,if not than dr gerds /lauster's team would be best option ,so that i can focus on research and move in life after the cure of MPB is found.
I am banking on next year parliamentary elections in INDIA,there are high chances ,the person very close to me ,the main contender to the PRIME MINISTER post in india,and his open to lot of ideas and is an innovating politician,he has transformed one state of india ,and is chief minister of that state.
It is better if forum members communicate to washniek and ceo of aderans and they come to me.Selling oneself is difficult than liaisoning guys presenting me and my company.
Aderans clinical trials have high chances of acceptance in india if they atleast had few indian patients in their clinical trial.
You're certainly researching a lot of avenues Dr. Nigam and that is both extremely refreshing and exciting. It says that Blueseed will hopefully launch between Q2 and Q3 next year so by the end of 2014 you could have your own clinic offering all your procedures in US waters, is that correct? Will you be seeking FDA and other regulatory approval whilst offering these treatments to those who want to travel out of regulatory jurisdiction? 

Dr. Nigam how are you finding the time to do all this stuff!?  :Smile:  and then come on and answer all our questions so promtly, maybe you're further along in cloning than we realise and you've cloned yourself  :Smile:  

Given that regualtions are different in India why are there not other India doctors working on this? Or why haven't companies such as Aderans and Replicel done work in India?

Please continue to update us on all your new ventures and good luck with everything Dr. Nigam.[/QUOTE]

----------


## UK Boy

> DIDI,I was there in turkey few months back,
> I met few doctors and they will mail me regarding the regulations ,they had no idea what i wwas talking they were traditional fut/fue surgeons.
> DIDI ,GC,arashiu,IM,
> your comments required 
> on the patch test i am performing the day after
> NAME of the procedure-STEMCELLS-PLUCK & IMPLANT ....the new MPB solution.
> USP of the procedure--100% guarantee of donor regen,no punch,no needle use,no mark, donor,repeat use of donor in 1month,most cost effective.Conversion of nw7 to nw1/2 in 2 sessions i month apart each session of 3 to 4 days.
>  As you see in the picture before this is the picture of the same guy of 15 G patch test .
> 
> ...


 Wow Dr. Nigam, if you master 'Plucking' you really will have the cure for baldness. Have you studied all of Dr.Cooley's work regarding plucking? There was a lot of excitment about this procedure back in 2011, a number of long standing hair transplant doctors in the US did plucking trials in their clinics and the outcome was that the recipient yield was no good. Do you really think the DP injections will be the key to the recipient survival? How long will we have to wait to truely evaluate the recipient? You're giving so much hope to so many people Dr. Nigam, I once suffered keloid scaring and am therefore terrified to ever try a normal hair transplant in case I got keloid scaring but with doctors such as yourself, Dr. Gho and Dr. Wesley working on ways to perform hair transplants with no risk of scaring I'm starting to get hope that the future will offer me several options if I decided to have a hair transplant. Obviously yours is most exciting as it offers greatest chance of donor regeneration and therefore unlimited donor.

One thing is that your say girls can pluck their eyelashes over and over again without damage but don't you believe there is a limit? We know with head hair that people can end up with bald spots from traction alopecia, so if you pluck the hairs too many times won't they stop growing?

----------


## drnigams

Kindly find below the microscopic images of Day 7 Donor and Day 9 recipient of 15 G patch test of in-vitro hair doubling.

We have extracted 15 grafts from the donor area and were bisected to make it to 30 grafts. 15 grafts were implanted back into the donor area and 15 grafts were implanted into the recipient area.

There were 8 Single grafts, 6 Double grafts & 1 Triple grafts, so 23 follicles were used in this procedure.

Visibility of 46 follicles means 100&#37; regrowth anything less or more is accordingly.

Final results can be analysed after 6 months to see if some more hair regrow which may be in Telogen or in development stage.

GC, Didi & Ironman can do independent marking on the same. Because shortly the marks on the donor and recipient will disappear.

*Donor microscopic images*



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...er/Large/1.jpg



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http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...er/Large/2.jpg



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*Recipient microscopic images*



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http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...nt/Large/1.jpg



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> Dr nigam, 
> 
> we need procedure that will overcome  HSTs limitations, (very small sessions spaced at least 9 months apart), for high NWs is just not practical...I mean, who can wait 6+ years to finish process...plus prices which are sky high, taking advantage of unlucky sufferers
> 
> Iron man will be 60 years old by the time he receives 10 000 hst grafts..no wonder he  exibits psychopathic/anti-social behavior

----------


## drnigams

We have sent a proposal to Blue Seed outside USA for a small stem cells lab and small clinic. They will get back to us regarding regulation. Blue Seed is dominated by silicon valley professionals and innovator.

Let me tell you forum members know more about stem cells and hair doubling than many non-western doctors. When I advertise Hair Doubling and Donor Doubling in newspaper forget about patient it is a alien language for even doctors.  

You will be shocked stem cells regulatory body is not formed still in many country and in India it is in early phase and director are yet to be appointed. If I am little fortunate I will be in the advisory board of Indian Stem cells regulatory body. I have served as an Adviser to my State FDA regarding International regulatory advice on cosmoceuticals (which are neither classified as drug nor classified as over the counter non-prescription product)
My term as an FDA adviser expired five year ago because I cannot give so much time. But this stint as an FDA advisor helped me to understand pros & con of regulatory procedures and how one can work around it as a doctor with new therapeutic clinic based invention or procedures.


You're certainly researching a lot of avenues Dr. Nigam and that is both extremely refreshing and exciting. It says that Blueseed will hopefully launch between Q2 and Q3 next year so by the end of 2014 you could have your own clinic offering all your procedures in US waters, is that correct? Will you be seeking FDA and other regulatory approval whilst offering these treatments to those who want to travel out of regulatory jurisdiction? 

Dr. Nigam how are you finding the time to do all this stuff!?  :Smile:  and then come on and answer all our questions so promtly, maybe you're further along in cloning than we realise and you've cloned yourself  :Smile:  

Given that regualtions are different in India why are there not other India doctors working on this? Or why haven't companies such as Aderans and Replicel done work in India?

Please continue to update us on all your new ventures and good luck with everything Dr. Nigam.[/QUOTE]

----------


## Arashi

Dr Nigams, I must admit, it's hard to not get excited when you read your postings. But please understand, we need to see solid results. 

I really don't understand why NSN all of a sudden doesn't visit the forums anymore. Yes he had personal problems but that didn't keep him from posting. His case would be the first in hopefully a row of solid proof of your techniques. Please understand that this 15 graft test you're performing can't be considered as reliable proof because you're doing it on a staff member.

----------


## drnigams

Didi,

We do approximately 8 cases a day, all are stem cells hair multiplication + DP culture and atleast 1 a day. In-vivo donor doubling with stem cells.

As told to you we have stopped doing FUE unless we have to do free to those who did not get stem cells result. Because donor doubling takes lots of time and since for FUE we require 2 staffs and for Donor Doubling we require 6 staffs.

Didi my in-vivo hair doubling with stem cells + DP cell & DP injection require 2 sessions of 3 days each 4 to 6 months apart should be sufficient to convert NW7 to NW2. Hopefully we will be able to document the same in coming months. 

Lets see what happen with plucked hair transplant with stem cells in coming 15 to 30 days.

Yesterday I did 2100 grafts donor doubling in-vivo to 4200 grafts. This patient is from other state of India. I will post his photos and also will update the photos of 5000 grafts doubling to 10000 graft on a HT doctor from Delhi post 1 month procedure. His other pictures are already posted on HS thread.





> Dr nigam, 
> 
> we need procedure that will overcome  HSTs limitations, (very small sessions spaced at least 9 months apart), for high NWs is just not practical...I mean, who can wait 6+ years to finish process...plus prices which are sky high, taking advantage of unlucky sufferers
> 
> Iron man will be 60 years old by the time he receives 10 000 hst grafts..no wonder he  exibits psychopathic/anti-social behavior

----------


## drnigams

GC knows the answer why NSN is not posting due to certain forum members specially IM. GC knows the good progress of the recipient of NSN case directly from NSN.

Let us leave him alone, after all he is now my patient. His privacy is important. He is no more only a forum member to me but also a patient. I am embarrassed because of silly mistakes of my staff. Although wrong identity of his but still Ironman did very bad to him by posting his wrong identity pictures on the forum. If the same will happen to you and me do you think we will still remain the forum? I sincerely apologize to NSN for the same.




> Dr Nigams, I must admit, it's hard to not get excited when you read your postings. But please understand, we need to see solid results. 
> 
> I really don't understand why NSN all of a sudden doesn't visit the forums anymore. Yes he had personal problems but that didn't keep him from posting. His case would be the first in hopefully a row of solid proof of your techniques. Please understand that this 15 graft test you're performing can't be considered as reliable proof because you're doing it on a staff member.

----------


## Arashi

> GC knows the answer why NSN is not posting due to certain forum members specially IM. GC knows the good progress of the recipient of NSN case directly from NSN.
> 
> Let us leave him alone, after all he is now my patient. His privacy is important. He is no more only a forum member to me but also a patient. I am embarrassed because of silly mistakes of my staff. Although wrong identity of his but still Ironman did very bad to him by posting his wrong identity pictures on the forum. If the same will happen to you and me do you think we will still remain the forum? I sincerely apologize to NSN for the same.


 ??? I'm confused here. Iron Man posted name and address of NSN ?

----------


## drnigams

Caddarick79,
You must have noticed ,i am not selling or calling members myself,it is a big responsibility.
Things will be clear with documentation of independent senior forum members.I am not even charging them for patch test.
Still those who believe me as adoctor with gut feeling and little documentation are booking themselves.
I have 90plus enquires from forum members and viewers,i told them to come from july,except 5 to 6 who will be coming for large grafts in april and may.
I would love to recieve you in india after 2 months,with more documentations and improvements.



> Dear Dr Nigam,
> 
> You seem promising and very confident with the future of hair multiplication>
> At this moment, I still need some more proofs and that you become more mainstream>>> but for sure, if you become the reference and if all what you claim is becoming concrete, approved and real, i will not mind flying to India to get my hair restored at a reasonnable fare and reasonnable rythm>
> 
> Can you summarise a bit about where we are TODAY and what you are sure you will reah withing 2 or 3 years?
> 
> Thank you

----------


## Arashi

> GC knows the answer why NSN is not posting due to certain forum members specially IM. GC knows the good progress of the recipient of NSN case directly from NSN.
> 
> Let us leave him alone, after all he is now my patient. His privacy is important. He is no more only a forum member to me but also a patient. I am embarrassed because of silly mistakes of my staff. Although wrong identity of his but still Ironman did very bad to him by posting his wrong identity pictures on the forum. If the same will happen to you and me do you think we will still remain the forum? I sincerely apologize to NSN for the same.


 Seriously Dr Nigams, I don't know what to think of all this. If I understand your post correctly your staff members revealed photo's of NSN's face to IronMan who posted them ? If that's true I can imagine NSN is pissed at you. But still, he should also understand that there are tons of people out there interested in his results.

I just don't know what to think of this. I WANT to believe you but again, the skepticism in me just takes over. I find it very weird that by now we still haven't seen any pictures (except that mole, which is no proof at all without the rest of the donor).

----------


## didi

i think dr nigam posted pic where nsn name was written or smthing...IM made sure it spreads, its fake name anyway but IM likes to rub it in...

----------


## hellouser

> ??? I'm confused here. Iron Man posted name and address of NSN ?


 If he did, thats a major concern for someones privacy and a DICK move for him to take aways someones anonymity online.

----------


## 534623

> GC knows the answer why NSN is not posting due to certain forum members specially IM. GC knows the good progress of the recipient of NSN case directly from NSN.
> 
> Let us leave him alone, after all he is now my patient. His privacy is important. He is no more only a forum member to me but also a patient. I am embarrassed because of silly mistakes of my staff. Although wrong identity of his but still Ironman did very bad to him by posting his wrong identity pictures on the forum. If the same will happen to you and me do you think we will still remain the forum? I sincerely apologize to NSN for the same.


 Yeah, everybody could see *how* important it is for you... your patients' "privacy"...


As I said: once a fraudster - always a fraudster.

Anyway, sorry mister, 
but I'm NOT the one who posted everywhere neversaynever's identity!

By the way:
How much did you pay the "consumer advocate" who still allows you to post all your fraudulent claims?

----------


## Arashi

> Yeah, everybody could see *how* important it is for you... your patients' "privacy"...
> 
> 
> As I said: once a fraudster - always a fraudster.
> 
> Anyway, sorry mister, 
> but I'm NOT the one who posted everywhere neversaynever's identity!
> 
> By the way:
> How much did you pay the "consumer advocat" who still allows you to post all your fraudulent claims?


 I don't get it. What did he upload ? Was NSN's face visible ?
"Kunal Patel" was the name he used for that Indian patient by the way.

----------


## 534623

> I was the the first who exposed dr nigam and his fake images *BUT now its different story*, he is trying his best...


 Yeah, of course it's now "a different story" - I mean, for you.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Arashi

> i think dr nigam posted pic where nsn name was written or smthing...IM made sure it spreads, its fake name anyway but IM likes to rub it in...


 His name wasn't spread. The name "Kunal Patel" was visible, but that's not NSN's name. They used that name for that Indian Guy on their website. I know cause I can see in my browser cache:
http://www.drnigams.net/images/kunal_patel/01.jpg
(picture now is gone, but it was the picture of that Indian guy)

----------


## Arashi

So ironman, tell me, why is NSN mad ? Did the pictures show his face ?

----------


## 534623

> I don't get it. What did *he* upload ?


 Instead of simply saying "he" - mention ALWAYS the *NAME* instead of simply "he"!
Because "he" could be for a reader "Spencer Kobren" or "Donald Duck" - you know ...

Anyway - what "he", Dr. Nigam, uploaded - I have still everything documented, I mean, what "he" uploaded.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## 534623

> So ironman, tell me, why is NSN mad ? Did the pictures show his face ?


 The answer is - NO.

But neversaynever KNOWS exactly *who* loaded up what exactly... because someone else, like me, CAN'T know anything about somebody, if not another guy -in this case Dr. Nigam- uploaded the patients data. So what's is so complicated?

And yeah, of course, in the meanwhile Dr. Nigam -as expected- REMOVED all these photos from his website.

----------


## Arashi

> Instead of simply saying "he" - mention ALWAYS the *NAME* instead of simply "he"!
> Because "he" could be "Spencer Kobren" or "Donald Duck" - you know ...
> 
> Anyway - what "he", Dr. Nigam, uploaded - I have still everything documented, I mean, what "he" uploaded.


 Since we were talking about a picture that Dr Nigam uploaded, I think you knew what I meant. So, what's the problem here, NSN is now angry at Dr Nigams because he uploaded a picture showing his face and thus violating NSN's privacy ?

----------


## Arashi

> The answer is - NO.


 Pfff I don't get it anymore. Then why does Dr Nigam say that NSN is now angry at you ?

----------


## Arashi

Let me resume. When I asked for NSN's pictures, this is what Nigams said:




> GC knows the answer why NSN is not posting due to certain forum members specially IM. GC knows the good progress of the recipient of NSN case directly from NSN.
> 
> Let us leave him alone, after all he is now my patient. His privacy is important. He is no more only a forum member to me but also a patient. I am embarrassed because of silly mistakes of my staff. Although wrong identity of his but still Ironman did very bad to him by posting his wrong identity pictures on the forum. If the same will happen to you and me do you think we will still remain the forum? I sincerely apologize to NSN for the same.


 So, his 'staff member' places the name of that Indian guy under NSN's picture. Why would that all of a sudden be a reason for him to decide not to post donor pictures. And furthermore, why does Dr Nigams suggest that we should just leave NSN alone ? This is getting weirder and weirder ...

----------


## Arashi

Oh and by the way, when I asked GC about NSN, he said:



> I don't really have any update from NSN, we have emailed back and to a little over the last couple of weeks, but he hasn't updated me on his donor area nor has he sent any photos of his donor area.


 So he knows NOTHING about NSN's progress, unlike Dr Nigams suggested ...

----------


## drnigams

Never any pics,but a dummy name for the patient on the graft bottle got accidentally uploaded as members wanted pics soon.. for few minutes which im copied,and you know what he did...
That is also one reason ,i will counter im and expose his claims ..he can bash me..but not my patient.




> Since we were talking about a picture that Dr Nigam uploaded, I think you knew what I meant. So, what's the problem here, NSN is now angry at Dr Nigams because he uploaded a picture showing his face and thus violating NSN's privacy ?

----------


## Arashi

> Never any pics,but a dummy name for the patient on the graft bottle got accidentally uploaded as members wanted pics soon.. for few minutes which im copied,and you know what he did...
> That is also one reason ,i will counter im and expose his claims ..he can bash me..but not my patient.


 Again, why would placing a dummy name offend NSN ? This just seems very weird. And now he doesn't want to update any more after you gave him $5000 discount on his procedure for being a TEST PERSON !??!?!

----------


## Arashi

And why would you place a dummy name on NSN's graft bottle in the first place ?  Pfff this is getting weirder by the minute ...

----------


## didi

IM didnt reveal NSNs identity?


Why would NSN be angry with IM...im confused

----------


## didi

Also GC is suppossed to be in touch with NSN but it seems like there no cummunication going on between two of them

----------


## 534623

> Pfff I don't get it anymore. Then *why does Dr Nigam say that NSN is now angry at you ?*


 Do you know what it means "to turn the tables"?

Doing this - it's "the nature" of fraudsters.

----------


## Arashi

> Do you know what it means "to turn the tables"?
> 
> Doing this - it's "the nature" of fraudsters.


 I must say all this is at least VERY WEIRD. I'm not going to call him a fraudster just yet, but we really need him to explain wtf is going on here ...

----------


## drnigams

To send the grafts to the lab,naming is important as in any blood test sample.
You must have understood why i countered im the day before without sleeping and was awake answering him till morning.
IM spoilt my saturday and sunday hard work on nsn.
Since he could not beat me in technique..im did this in vengeance.. 





> And why would you place a dummy name on NSN's graft bottle in the first place ?  Pfff this is getting weirder by the minute ...

----------


## Arashi

> To send the grafts to the lab,naming is important as in any blood test sample.
> You must have understood why i countered im the day before without sleeping and was awake answering him till morning.
> IM spoilt my saturday and sunday hard work on nsn.
> Since he could not beat me in technique..im did this in vengeance..


 First of all, STOP IMPLYING IRONMAN WORKS FOR GHO FOR GOD'S SAKE !!! Compare the photo's of his scalp to the employees on Gho's website: http://www.hasci.com/nl/instituut/wie-wij-zijn/

Secondly, now explain us: why are you implying that NSN is angry at IronMan, when he is not angry at him at all ? 
And thirdly: if that's not the reason for NSN's absence, then what is ? Why are you saying we should leave poor NSN alone ?
And fourthly: why were you saying that GC knows about the 'good progress' on NSN, while GC states he doesnt know ANYTHING AT ALL?

----------


## 534623

> Oh and by the way, when I asked GC about NSN, he said:
> 
> *"I don't really have any update from NSN, we have emailed back and to a little over the last couple of weeks, but he hasn't updated me on his donor area nor has he sent any photos of his donor area."*
> 
> So he knows NOTHING about NSN's progress, unlike Dr Nigams suggested ...


 Hey man, are you "didi-2" or what??

How long does it take for you to know that Dr. Nigam simply makes claims out of his ass??

----------


## Arashi

Man this dr Nigams character is starting to drive me crazy

----------


## didi

IM ruined dr nigams weekend bc IM revealed NVNs  identity?
After all that was NVNs real name as Nigam has to use real names when sending grafts to the lab....am i correct?

----------


## drnigams

Read gc's post earlier in the thread,i will search for you...when he mentioned thatnsn may or may not post due to PRIVACY issue and may be drnigam can convince him,he also talked about 468 extractions at the donor near left ear and asked these are the quality of pics ,i should take which can be mapped even after 6 months and no tattoo will be required by mapping the area . 


> First of all, STOP IMPLYING IRONMAN WORKS FOR GHO FOR GOD'S SAKE !!! Compare the photo's of his scalp to the employees on Gho's website: http://www.hasci.com/nl/instituut/wie-wij-zijn/
> 
> Secondly, now explain us: why are you implying that NSN is angry at IronMan, when he is not angry at him at all ? 
> And thirdly: if that's not the reason for NSN's absence, then what is ?
> And fourthly: why were you saying that GC knows about the 'good progress' on NSN, while GC states he doesnt know ANYTHING AT ALL?

----------


## Arashi

> IM ruined dr nigams weekend bc IM revealed NVNs  identity?
> After all that was NVNs real name as Nigam has to use real names when sending grafts to the lab....am i correct?


 As I posted earlier, when he uploaded pictures of that Indian guy, he did so using THAT name and since it's clearly an Indian name, I'm 100&#37; sure this is NOT the name of NSN. Dr Nigams even said so himself when he was talking about him posting 'wrong identity' of NSN.

----------


## Arashi

> Read gc's post earlier in the thread,i will search for you...when he mentioned thatnsn may or may not post due to PRIVACY issue and may be drnigam can convince him,he also talked about 468 extractions at the donor near left ear and asked these are the quality of pics ,i should take which can be mapped even after 6 months and no tattoo will be required by mapping the area .


 Privacy issue ? What privacy issue ? He agreed being your test person for which you in return gave him $5000 discount, isn't that right ?

----------


## didi

I thought NSN is UK born Indian?

Anyway, as long as his face and name wasnt made public i see no problems with privacy ..on the other hand if K Patel was his real name then i can see why NSN would be angry

----------


## drnigams

Arashi,
He is not just a forum member to me anymore..I am a doctor and he is my patient.
Didn't before this episode he posted and promised to more shortly,he was there on hs.
Didnot i mentioned to gc to give his mail and i will send pics to document.
Didnot i mentioned to gc that i have mailed more pics tonsn and will mail more..but i will wait for him..may be he will respond ,i also called him and mailed him.. i am waiting.

----------


## 534623

> To send the grafts to the lab,naming is important as in any blood test sample.
> You must have understood why i countered im the day before without sleeping and was awake answering him till morning.
> IM spoilt my saturday and sunday hard work on nsn.
> Since *he could not beat me in technique*..im did this in vengeance..


 Sorry, I didn't know that you have one?? lol

But please let me explain YOU a little bit about your so-called "techniques":

http://www.mid-day.com/specials/2011...indian-men.htm

According to this article YOU did the following things (besides other crap) until the year 2011 (just 2 years ago):

*"Dr Nigam is a busy cosmetic surgeon flying through 27 hair transplants every month; that's one surgery a day. And the bustle at the Dr Nigam Hair Transplant Clinic, which he co-runs with wife Dr Divya, is proof that business is good. 
[...]
For young Indian men troubled by hair loss, the surgeon dishes out a plate of services. Plasma Cell Therapy involves extracting a client's blood, zeroing in on special plasma cells and later injecting them into the scalp in a bid to help nourish the roots. Three sessions over three months will make your hair denser by 20 per cent, promises the doctor. For those who fancy a slice of Western treatment, Mesotherapy requires you to take an injection every week for a month, followed by one a month for 11 months. "It's packed with anti-oxidants and is imported from Singapore. Each shot costs Rs 2,500." 
[...]
And while Dr Farjo refrains from recommending the procedure to younger men "because their expectations are too high",* *[age hardly matters for Dr Nigam who says post-surgery dizziness and soreness that could last for two weeks is the only risk you take. No wonder then that the 40 year-old is readying himself for a Bio Fibre Artificial Hair Transplant surgery later this year for his thinning crown.*"

----------


## didi

IM, thats very old article, 3 yrs+

----------


## Arashi

> Arashi,
> He is not just a forum member to me anymore..I am a doctor and he is my patient.


 At this point I think I'll just stop posting here. I'm really starting to lose interest in you. You're a smooth talker and really know how to get people excited, people waiting for a cure, but you obviously have no intention at all to show us solid proof. "He is not just a forum member to me anymore..I am a doctor and he is my patient" REALLY ??? WTF ???!?! You gave him $5000 discount, his case would be a demonstration of what you can do and now all of a sudden you want to 'protect' him because he's your patient and thus you can't show his pictures !??!?!?! And then you're lying about him being angry and about GC having seen proof ?

Sorry, but I can't draw any other conclusions than that IM was right. Again. You're just a fraud. Started out with photoshopped pictures and now you're just continuing with your lies and deceit .. It's just sad.

----------


## didi

Why would nigam wanna protect him ?..NSN have access to internet , he can update us..

----------


## 534623

> IM, thats very old article, 3 yrs+


 Come on - everybody knows that you have troubles with your IQ...

By: Yolande D'mello 	  	Date:  2011-04-10 	  	Place: Mumbai
http://www.mid-day.com/specials/2011...indian-men.htm

So - really?

----------


## drnigams

HS and tbt were also requested to delete his pics as requested by him ,i had to remove his pics from hs thread..after this episode..
You have nothing to say to im..thats great..after all he is your fellow member.
What more could i do..except calling him on his phone ..sending few mails and requesting him..what would have you done..after all it was also a mistake from my side.




> At this point I think I'll just stop posting here. I'm really starting to lose interest in you. You're a smooth talker and really know how to get people excited, people waiting for a cure, but you obviously have no intention at all to show us solid proof. "He is not just a forum member to me anymore..I am a doctor and he is my patient" REALLY ??? WTF ???!?! You gave him $5000 discount, his case would be a demonstration of what you can do and now all of a sudden you want to 'protect' him because he's your patient and thus you can't show his pictures !??!?!?! And then you're lying about him being angry and about GC having seen proof ?
> 
> Sorry, but I can't draw any other conclusions than that IM was right. Again. You're just a fraud. Started out with photoshopped pictures and now you're just continuing with your lies and deceit .. It's just sad.

----------


## didi

sounds like NSN is pissed off at everyone and will not share anything anymore.

----------


## Arashi

> HS and tbt were also requested to delete his pics as requested by him ,i had to remove his pics from hs thread..after this episode..
> You have nothing to say to im..thats great..after all he is your fellow member.
> What more could i do..except calling him on his phone ..sending few mails and requesting him..what would have you done..after all it was also a mistake from my side.


 I just want you to be honest. You have a new story every time. If you can't reach NSN, then just tell us so, instead of making stuff up. Some part of me still wants to give you the benefit of the doubt, but man ... It's just crazy.

----------


## bananana

Gentlemen, this is starting to look like a spanish soap opera.

Stop arguing and wait for neversaynever to show up and/or write him an email.

This thread is becoming pointless with all your arguing and blaming each other on a high school level.

----------


## Arashi

> Gentlemen, this is starting to look like a spanish soap opera.
> 
> Stop arguing and wait for neversaynever to show up and/or write him an email.
> 
> This thread is becoming pointless with all your arguing and blaming each other on a high school level.


 The only reason why I've still SOME interest in this is: Why would NSN not post anymore if his result was bad ? yeah Dr Nigam could have given him a large sum to shut up but that just seems way too far out. So I still have some hope that NSN will show up here.

But I'm just getting really p*ssed at the way Dr Nigams is acting here. All those lies about NSN and GC, those crazy accusations at Gho (with that  totally ridiculous picture he drew with those circles of NSN's scalp) and the way he just KEEPS implying that IronMan = dr Gho, while IM shot tons of pictures of his scalp and he looks as much like Dr Gho as Silvester Stallone looks like president Obama.

A spanish Soap opera you say ? Well yeah ,but a REALLY REALLY bad one  :Wink:

----------


## 534623

> HS and tbt were also requested to delete his pics as requested by him ,i had to remove his pics from hs thread..after this episode..
> You have nothing to say to im..thats great..after all he is your fellow member.
> What more could i do..except calling him on his phone ..sending few mails and requesting him..what would have you done..*after all it was also a mistake from my side*.


 Please let me tell you a little bit about your so-called "mistake":

In your attempt to (fraudulently) blame another doctor, in this case Dr. Gho...

...you tried *as fast as possible* to upload neversaynever's treatment-photos everywhere (also here at the baldtruth)- WITHOUT looking more closely what you actually uploaded! 
Furthermore, your thread-title *itself* explains already your intentions:

*"Plucked Hair Doubling Procedure @ Dr. Nigam (Neversaynever - Ex-HST patient)"*

And your intention was:
"Look guys, a former Dr. Gho patient came to ME - and not to Dr. Gho anymore - TO ME, DR.NIGAM!!"

So what YOU actually did - YOU *abused* a patient to blame others just for fame and glory and to mislead others. THAT is what you did!

And here again ...

This pic just shows my and others 1st impressions about what you did!
"...is currently very busy..." lol ... with blaming and misleading others.

----------


## Boldy

I think its great that we will be seeing results of plucked hair soon. (or not?)

this is a step forward in the market..

Its just so bad someone in india tries to move the cure fast forward  :Big Grin: , it seem not to come without bullshit posters.


My advice, what they say in dutch:"Geduld is een schone zaak". Time will tell if this will be a Go or no go.

speculations and other bullshit post won't give any of us extra hair, get your shit to gather and spare your energy guys.

in my opinion its very simple. the theory is there, its proven. In practice if a particular clinc can do it or not, can be proven with pics or video's. 


so if this MSM post pics, than nice, if he wont for some reason?, its not happened, or some other reason, what ****ing sense will it make to make 500 posts about it? 


its about facts.

----------


## clandestine

neversaynever has all but disappeared from the boards. He used to be very active prior to this, weird.

----------


## didi

he became very strange since he had procedure, something dnt seem right

I dont like when people volonteer to share results and once they have HT they dissappear...why put hand up in the first place?

there was a thread abt this phenomenon  on other forum

----------


## The Alchemist

> he became very strange since he had procedure, something dnt seem right
> 
> I dont like when people volonteer to share results and once they have HT they dissappear...why put hand up in the first place?
> 
> there was a thread abt this phenomenon  on other forum


 It's pretty odd that he's completely disappeared.  Though, he did return to cover his tracks with a few posts, so to speak.  I would think that someone who took part in a cutting edge treatment that could potentially change the hair transplant industry would have quite a bit to say.  Not OBI and not Neversaynever.  I would have to say that this is not a good sign for Dr Nigam.

I'm losing interest in following this saga.  It's gonna be up to Nigam to document this properly.  If he can truly double the donor like he claims, then we will be able to see grown out results sometime at the end of the summer and it will be very obvious.  If by then we're still unclear or getting the run around and patient cases that start and no follow up, or poorly documented, then Dr. Nigam will end up in the dust bin with the rest of them that have come and gone.

I hope he proves his case and does it well.

----------


## drnigams

Dear All,

Kindly find below 
1. Before picture of every extraction and recipient 12th Day picture of every extraction and recipient microscopic large & zoomed picture. Now we can easily follow the case by keeping an eye on the surrounding hair. 

We have started with 15 G extraction at the donor area (6 Single, 8 Doubling & 1 Triple follicle) total 23 follicles in between 6 tattoo marks.

Believe it or not, it is surprise to me too that we can see on 12th day 46 growing follicle at Donor and 34 growing follicles at recipient, regenerating themselves with additions of new follicles formation. Total 80 follicles re-grown from 23 follicles extracted. 

If there is any counting mistakes please correct. Still it will be much more than doubling. We have already posted videos with comb over of the whole scalp with daily newspaper date video.

Remember we have also injected stem cells, dp cells, dp growth factor, ECM + PRP. Hence new follicle regeneration also as a part of our stem cells hair multiplication therapy. In the months to come we will follow the rate of growth and also the thickness of the follicles.

*SPECIAL OFFER FOR 1 FORUM MEMBER FROM HS OR BT*

to prove my technique of In-vitro hair doubling and in-vivo hair doubling with activated stem cells, I offer to select 1 forum member who is good in documentation and neutral and credible and mutually accepted by all the members of HS and BT selected by themselves who will undergo following with all expenses borne by me including return air ticket (Economy), accommodation for documentation which he/she will document in forums across the world including English, German, Arabic, etc and procedure as below

1. The member will receive test patch of in-vivo hair doubling
2. The member will receive patch test of in-vitro hair doubling
3. The member will receive patch test of plucked hair doubling
4. The member will receive pure stem cells hair multiplication + plus DP Cells

This will cost me$4000 + my & staff time but imagine if this member document the case properly and get the results as mentioned in this post of 15G patch test study in forum across the globe. This will be international news which will make you and me extremely happy. 

member should meet the following Criteria

1. Mutually accepted by BT and HS senior members as a credible member
2. member should be good in documentations & should not run away after the procedure
3. member should be ready to buy $120 video scope and should have a DSLR Camera
4. Member should be ready to stay for 3 days in Mumbai (Most welcome to stay 7 days and enjoy hair tourism with Bollywood party :-), Transcendental meditation and movies)
5. member should be ready to document from day 0 to full 1 year in talk multi-language forums across the globe with the true results.
6. We will give free total scalp coverage of the maximum hair possible in him in his second visit with whichever technique he chooses.


We will start posting new case study of NW 7 which we will convert to NW2 in next 6 days with In-vivo Hair Doubling 


Note: 
TD1 - TD 6 are tattoos of donor around 15 extraction sites and surrounding existing hair for monitoring

TR 1 - TR 6 are tattoos of recipient around 15 implantation sites and surrounding existing hair for monitoring

Green circle numerical (1-15) are extraction and recipient sites of regenerating hair and new follicles formed.
Picture of Day 0 of Donor and Recipient are provided for reference purpose followed by Day 12 microscopic videoscope image with zoom.

Now further we will follow up keeping a close eye on surrounding hair as the extraction and donor area will get healed in few days.

*Donor Area Day 0 picture for reference*



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...onor/donor.jpg

*Donor extraction Day 12 Microscopic pictures*



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ge/Donor/1.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ge/Donor/2.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ge/Donor/3.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ge/Donor/4.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ge/Donor/5.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ge/Donor/6.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ge/Donor/7.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ge/Donor/8.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ge/Donor/9.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...e/Donor/10.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...e/Donor/11.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...e/Donor/12.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...e/Donor/13.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...e/Donor/14.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...e/Donor/15.jpg


*Recipient Area*



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D.../ricipient.jpg

*Recipient extraction Day 12 Microscopic pictures*



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...icipient/1.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...icipient/2.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...icipient/3.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...icipient/4.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...icipient/5.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...icipient/6.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...icipient/7.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...icipient/8.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...icipient/9.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...cipient/10.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...cipient/11.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...cipient/12.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...cipient/13.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...cipient/14.jpg



click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...cipient/15.jpg

----------


## Conpecia

regardless of whether this ends up working, nigam definitely has balls. no one can dispute that.

who should we nominate? i think Pate would be a good candidate supposing he's interested at all. seems trustworthy, smart, and i believe he's a high NW who has tried experimental stuff.

----------


## Arashi

> regardless of whether this ends up working, nigam definitely has balls. no one can dispute that.
> 
> who should we nominate? i think Pate would be a good candidate supposing he's interested at all. seems trustworthy, smart, and i believe he's a high NW who has tried experimental stuff.


 I must also conclude that this is a very hopeful move by  Dr Nigams !
About the candidate: Best candidate would be someone who was active on these forums before Dr Nigams registered on Hairsite. Also someone who has shown to have at least a critical mind. Perfect candidate would for example even have expressed himself in favour of Gho, that would make him in my eyes very trustworthy, but this last part if of course not necessary.

Again, this is a very interesting development.

----------


## The Alchemist

> I must also conclude that this is a very hopeful move by  Dr Nigams !
> About the candidate: Best candidate would be someone who was active on these forums before Dr Nigams registered on Hairsite. Also someone who has shown to have at least a critical mind. Perfect candidate would for example even have expressed himself in favour of Gho, that would make him in my eyes very trustworthy, but this last part if of course not necessary.
> 
> Again, this is a very interesting development.


 
How about you?

----------


## hellouser

I'd go myself if I wasn't in Canada. I already got the camera gear to take photos. If Nigam was closer I'd just get one of my photographer friends to take all the photographs.

Bah.

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

guys sorry to ask sth noobish, i saw you talk about plucked hair and if it works , can someone explain me what it is?

----------


## Arashi

> How about you?


 Nah I'm sure we can find somebody who won't have to fear for Dr Nigam sending a hitman after him  :Wink:

----------


## JJJJrS

> *Donor Area Day 0 picture for reference*
> 
> 
> 
> click below link to see enlarged close up of the above pic
> http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...onor/donor.jpg


 Dr. Nigam, could you please take a picture like this again? The macro photos are very interesting but another picture like this would be nice for a before and after comparison.

----------


## JJJJrS

edit - double

----------


## drnigams

Sure jjjjr.



> Dr. Nigam, could you please take a picture like this again? The macro photos are very interesting but another picture like this would be nice for a before and after comparison.

----------


## HARIRI

We appreciate you efforts and patience Dr. Nigam. Asia is proud of you. Keep up the good work. We have a big hope on your NSN Donor regeneration technique and Dr. Wesely Scareless FUE technique. Wishing for more to come :-)

----------


## drnigams

To JJJJrS
I hope these are the Pictures You wanted me to upload if u need anything else then please revert.  



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...icipient/1.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ge/Donor/1.jpg

----------


## UK_

> regardless of whether this ends up working, nigam definitely has balls. no one can dispute that.
> 
> who should we nominate? i think Pate would be a good candidate supposing he's interested at all. seems trustworthy, smart, and i believe he's a high NW who has tried experimental stuff.


 I also think Pate would be a great candidate if we're after good impartial feedback.

At the moment - if you are considering a hair transplant, I dont see any reason why you wouldnt go with Dr Nigam (or even Gho) - they have both demonstrated donor regeneration.  You'd have to be crazy to have a traditional FUT.

----------


## Kiwi

I would take one for the team and take the docs challenge. I always seek the truth and fight speculation  :Big Grin:

----------


## Arashi

> I would take one for the team and take the docs challenge. I always seek the truth and fight speculation


 You'd have my vote, Kiwi ! Your account was active way before Dr Nigams came to the forums, which makes it credible. You're active quite a lot here, which gives me hope you won't run away after the test and you seem genuinely interested in the truth.

----------


## Ted

> I would take one for the team and take the docs challenge. I always seek the truth and fight speculation


 You'd have my vote also

----------


## Kiwi

Thanks team. I need to shave my head for a year right?

----------


## didi

Kiwi

What NW are you?
Keep it shaved, that we know procedure is scarless :Smile: 

are you getting FREE HT by Nigam or just patch test

----------


## drnigams

To begin with till the documentation is completed the patch test...and on his second visit free complete procedure..whosover is selected by you all.




> Kiwi
> 
> What NW are you?
> Keep it shaved, that we know procedure is scarless
> 
> are you getting FREE HT by Nigam or just patch test

----------


## drnigams

KIWI,didi,boldy,gc,hariri,banana,justone,uk....
Kindly start a new thread on voting.
'VOTING FOR MEMBER FOR PATCH TEST SPONSORED BY DRNIGAM'
Kindly mention the prospective nominated names and than people can have a system on the thread to vote and also mention when the voting closes and what is the member required to do.What procedures patch will be done on him/her.
If possible same at the HS.
thanks



> Thanks team. I need to shave my head for a year right?

----------


## drnigams

*Day 18 - 15 Grafts Patch Test of In-Vitro Hair Doubling @ Dr. Nigam's.*

Please find below the pictures including comb-over video of Day 18. We can see the regeneration of 90 follicles from 23 follicles

Recipient - 38 Follicles (F)
Donor - 52 Follicles (F)

*Recipient Area*:-

*Day 0 & Day 18*



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D.../Recipient.jpg

We can see the Recipient regeneration of 

*Recipient Videoscope Image*



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...nt/Large/1.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...nt/Large/2.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...nt/Large/3.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...nt/Large/4.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...nt/Large/5.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...nt/Large/6.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...nt/Large/7.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...nt/Large/8.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...nt/Large/9.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...t/Large/10.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...t/Large/11.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...t/Large/12.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...t/Large/13.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...t/Large/14.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...t/Large/15.jpg

*Donor Area* 

*Day 0 & Day 18*

The surrounding hairs were trimmed for better view of the donor regeneration area.



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...arge/Donor.jpg

*Recipient Videoscope Image*



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...or/Large/1.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...or/Large/2.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...or/Large/3.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...or/Large/4.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...or/Large/5.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...or/Large/6.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...or/Large/7.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...or/Large/8.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...or/Large/9.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...r/Large/10.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...r/Large/11.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...r/Large/12.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...r/Large/13.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...r/Large/14.jpg



Please click on the link below for the larger view
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...r/Large/15.jpg

Video Link:

Comb-Over Video - Day 18 

http://youtu.be/JZRc6dR-drM

----------


## Joker

The macro photos of this 15-graft in-vitro test were posted on HS by Dr. Nigam, showing total regrowth in 18 days. Macro photos of NSN's 10-graft in-vivo test showed 90% regrowth. 

And Spencer still won't even consider talking to Dr. Nigam? I'd say this is enough proof to establish that the guy is doing at least something out of the ordinary. It fits right within Dr. Wesley's and Dr. Gho's research (both of whom Spencer has taken an interest in) and might even help both.

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

cannot agree more


> The macro photos of this 15-graft in-vitro test were posted on HS by Dr. Nigam, showing total regrowth in 18 days. Macro photos of NSN's 10-graft in-vivo test showed 90% regrowth. 
> 
> And Spencer still won't even consider talking to Dr. Nigam? I'd say this is enough proof to establish that the guy is doing at least something out of the ordinary. It fits right within Dr. Wesley's and Dr. Gho's research (both of whom Spencer has taken an interest in) and might even help both.

----------


## UK_

> The macro photos of this 15-graft in-vitro test were posted on HS by Dr. Nigam, showing total regrowth in 18 days. Macro photos of NSN's 10-graft in-vivo test showed 90% regrowth. 
> 
> And Spencer still won't even consider talking to Dr. Nigam? I'd say this is enough proof to establish that the guy is doing at least something out of the ordinary. It fits right within Dr. Wesley's and Dr. Gho's research (both of whom Spencer has taken an interest in) and might even help both.


 Totally agree, there is clear regrowth here - I find it almost absurd that Spencer has not even acknowledged this yet.

Perhaps we should find another forum?

----------


## 534623

> The macro photos of this 15-graft in-vitro test were posted on HS by Dr. Nigam, showing total regrowth in 18 days. Macro photos of NSN's 10-graft in-vivo test showed 90&#37; regrowth. 
> 
> And Spencer still won't even consider talking to Dr. Nigam? I'd say this is ...


 Sure, YOU would say - more experienced guys surely not; or *could you see what happened with the extracted part(s)??*

Because to create (for photos) "small extractions wounds" and to show idiots "100% regrowth"!!" thereafter ...

http://www.haarweb.nl/forum/showpost...3&postcount=10

... every idiotic HT doc out there can show that.

By the way: Didn't you notice that he just shows "donor regrowth photos of extremely small areas? And who says that these pics belong to "the" discussed patient?

Ahh, I know - you think Nigam is just unable to make photos of the WHOLE (or at least big parts) of a patients donor area?

Here is the the proof that he IS able to take such photos ...

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=11858

... and everybody could see these photos which show almost the whole donor area.

----------


## Joker

Give it a rest, guy. Not everyone on earth is your sworn enemy, and not everyone on earth responds well to the sarcasm and aggression you bring to every conversation. I'm not proclaiming Dr. Nigam as the messiah. I'm saying that every physician - including Gho - deserves an opportunity to present their advances without being heckled. I understand you don't like Nigam, and that's your prerogative, but you also impede his ability to communicate his methods with other users who might not share your opinions. That's not fair.

----------


## Henkeh91

Thanks Dr Nigams for sharing

----------


## Arashi

> Give it a rest, guy. Not everyone on earth is your sworn enemy, and not everyone on earth responds well to the sarcasm and aggression you bring to every conversation. I'm not proclaiming Dr. Nigam as the messiah. I'm saying that every physician - including Gho - deserves an opportunity to present their advances without being heckled. I understand you don't like Nigam, and that's your prerogative, but you also impede his ability to communicate his methods with other users who might not share your opinions. That's not fair.


 Maybe you believe in Dr Nigams, maybe you don't. But IronMan has of course a point here, you can't take NSN's birthmark area seriously as proof. A picture of the WHOLE donor area, now that would be interesting. But NeverSayNever magically disappeared from all forums all of a sudden ... Now a critic might think that he made a deal with Dr Nigam. Maybe that if regrowth failed dr Nigam would pay all made expenses, like plane, hotel etc, if NSN just would never return to the forums again. I don't know. It's just beyond me why an active forum member here wants to travel all the way to India, just to completely disappear shortly thereafter. But hey, thats just me.

Main point is: you can't blame Spencer for not taking Nigams seriously YET. This might change in the future, I might be wrong about Nigams, let's all hope so, but I'm afraid I'm spot on ...

----------


## paradigmshift

Arashi, Your NSN theory sounds more like a unlikely conspiracy than anything. 

For any individual member, activity on this forum happens in bursts for a few weeks and ceases for some time (this is likely correlated with how depressed and self-conscious the person is feeling at the point in his life). May be NSN is really ecstatic about his results right now... and that's why he is not online every day like you and me. He might be enjoying life.

IronMan is a very special exception. He often raises good points, but they completely drowned out by his hateful, sarcastic, and immature (surprising for his age) rants. If he raises his objections a little more dispassionately, people might not be so annoyed by him. If he becomes incrementally more caring, people might even like him (like they do Desmond). We can't know what he has been through in life... after all, he is on this forum pretty much all the time.

----------


## Arashi

> Arashi, Your NSN theory sounds more like a unlikely conspiracy than anything. 
> 
> For any individual member, activity on this forum happens in bursts for a few weeks and ceases for some time (this is likely correlated with how depressed and self-conscious the person is feeling at the point in his life). May be NSN is really ecstatic about his results right now... and that's why he is not online every day like you and me. He might be enjoying life.
> 
> IronMan is a very special exception. He often raises good points, but they completely drowned out by his hateful, sarcastic, and immature (surprising for his age) rants. If he raises his objections a little more dispassionately, people might not be so annoyed by him. If he becomes incrementally more caring, people might even like him (like they do Desmond). We can't know what he has been through in life... after all, he is on this forum pretty much all the time.


 Of course you might be right. But the thing that bothers me, that this wasn't a 'normal' case, he was performing a TEST for Dr Nigams. In a normal situation, yes, it would make sense that a person is just happy with his result and leaves the forums. But in a test ? It just doesn't make any sense to me ...

And regarding Ironman, I agree. He's a valuable source to these forums, with often very good info, but his sarcasm just makes you hate him at times ...

----------


## drnigams

Day 53 Update In-Vitro Doubling of 15 G patch test @Dr. Nigam's

Dear friends,

Kindly find Day 53 update of donor and recipient of 15 graft patch test of in-vitro hair doubling along with tattoos marks and one shot video.

results
Donor - On Day 0 total 23 follicles were extracted from 15 grafts (Single - 8, Double - 6 & Triple - 1)

On Day 53 by Videoscopic & Macro images of Donor shows - 37 follicles as against 52 follicles on Day 18 may be some must have gone into shedding or some may have not regenerated. Although still better than 23 follicles which were extracted from the donor which mean the gain of 14 follicles at the donor which means as on today (Day 53) regeneration is 160&#37;, may become less or more, actual donor regeneration will come to know in 6 to 9 months. You must be wondering how come more than 100% regeneration that is becuase of stem cells, dp cell, growth factor were injected into the donor and recipient. You can clearly see even after using large punch to extract the graft from the donor like in FUE...... THERE IS NO WHITE DOT OR SCAR MARK. This proves if FUE doctors start using ECM, concentrated PRP and / or growth factor, stem cells, DP cells, visible FUE scar can be avoided. As the above have important role in wound healing. Hence no white dot or scare.

Recipient shows 23 follicles as against 38 follicles on Day 18 but still 100% recipient regeneration as 23 bisected follicle were implanted at the recipient, may be the 15 follicles is not seen on Day 53. May be they must have gone into shedding or they must have not regenerated. Actual recipient regeneration will be known after 6 to 8 month. 

observe the pigmentation and thickness of Donor and Recipient re-growth to analyze the diameter of new hair.

WCHR 2013, Edinburgh, UK, had 2 paper presentation on unlimited hair transplant. One Japanese paper were shown which was earlier confirmed by Jahoda that ........ 
Freshly isolated DP cells which is trichogenic, if implanted at the base of upper half of the amputated / bisected follicles, new dermal papilla or new follicle with similar characteristic of the donor will be created.
Another study confirm that upper half of the hair follicle if amputed and extracted with outer root sheath stem cells minimum and great if extracted with matrix stem cells can create it's own dermal papilla. 

The study also confirmed that the lower dermal papilla when imputed from its upper half of the follicle can create it's own shaft and rest of the follicle.

Cotsarelis had published one paper called "De-Differentiation of stem cells" in which bulge stem cells (epidermal) can become matrix germ stem cells and dermal stem cells and similarly dermal stem cells can become epidermal stem cells if required, this is called stem cell De-Differentiation.

With my experience of 4 to 5 month of in-vitro and in-vivo technique, as on today I come to conclusion that in-vitro hair doubling or donor doubling will give higher donor & recipient regeneration with better quality of hair than in-vivo donor doubling.

since in in-vivo donor doubling the major issues is that its a blind technique and not one can bisect the follicle at the matrix germ cells level or dermal cup sheath level. In-vivo technique has disadvantages....
1. since it's a blind technique, precise bisection which we want cannot happen
2. Becuase precise bisection cannot happen some extraction cannot suitable hence multiple extraction need to be done
3. Because it is blind technique hence it will be more expensive 
4. The hair re-growth at the recipient will be much lesser than the in-vitro technique because only part of upper follicle is being extracted hence hair at the recipient could be thinner.


Both In-vitro and in-vivo technique will be scarless but the role of injecting stem cells, dp cells, growth factor, ECM, as per my observation is very important for donor and recipient re-growth and thickness of hair.

I remember what Washneik said that in the 1st phase hair multiplication will be used as a adjunct to the hair transplant. This is what I feel too, by the time in coming months we will get consistent result when we will add 3d spheroidal aggregated capsulated, growth factor secretarine trichogenic, good dose of dp cells and / or what Dr. Gerd and Tsuji Lab did that is co-culturing of epithelial stem cells and trichogenic dp cells to create proto hair or micro follicle as named by Gerd for real CELLULAR HAIR IMPLANT or if Histogen succeeds and as believed by Ralf Paus of UK as he told to me in WCHR 2013 that dormant 100000 hair follicles lying also in the slick bald scalp in Telogen phase with partial fibrosis can be activated with stem cells, DP cells, Growth factors, Noggin, WNT7A, etc. in-vivo.

I would advice all the patient of AGA doing or not doing hair transplant, doubling or HM should start with mast cells supressor (Oral or topical) OC-03-01, anti-androgen preferably topical will come in the market, antioxydent like melatonin. Oral good dose of antioxidents and smoker should start L-Cystine and biotin in good doses orally and / or topically to counter the follicle damage of nicotine.

By next month I will have topical vascular endothelial growth factor FGF and others which can be applied topically for the medical AGA prescription but these topical gels are not available to the patient directly but only to the bio-tech labs.
For prevention of AGA I am working on how to reduce on micro inflammation due to multiplication at and around hair follicle and androgenic TGF - Beta-catenine topical or injectible to reduce mast cell released histamines. Reducing DHT concentration on scalp, countering prostaglandin, interlukine 1 & 6 concentration on scalp and products to up regulate PGE2, insulin growth factor, products to prevent apoptosis of stem cells, products to convert dormant stem cells to progenitor stem cells in-vivo through ioantophoresis, electoporation, nano particulate transdermal targetted delivery, chitosan, etc capsulated vehicle.

These medical prescription will also helps my HM results if patient starts this medical prescription, same for the regular transplant.

If I had movable photon microscope costing US $1 million, my HM result would have increase significantly. Since with movable photon microscope applied on patient scalp. I can see telogen follicles on the human scalp and inject the stem cells directly into it specially when they are fibrosed, partially or totally, normal stem cells injection could be difficult to them. In movable photo microscope, I can see cells of epidermis and dermis and also upward & downward movement of stem cells.

As you remember I had mentioned the use of photon micro-scope in cellular regeneration micro imaging study, same was highlighted by 2 presenters with their paper titled "Imaging in hair generative therapies"

Elian Fuchs in her paper presentation "Stem cells in silence and in action" showed upward & downward descent video of moving stem cells in a hair follicle in-vivo

Hope fully I have to do some research in Gerd lab in Berlin which is having fixed photon microscope and bio-reactors, etc to find the answer that why HM doesn't response on all the scalp? and we know HM respond on some scalp and in these responding scalp the results are really good and acceptable.

*Donor Count line*


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...-countline.jpg

*Recipient IMG* 

Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D.../Recipient.jpg



Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ecipient/1.jpg


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ecipient/2.jpg


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ecipient/3.jpg


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ecipient/4.jpg


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ecipient/5.jpg


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ecipient/6.jpg


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ecipient/7.jpg


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ecipient/8.jpg


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ecipient/9.jpg


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...cipient/10.jpg


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...cipient/11.jpg


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...cipient/12.jpg


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...cipient/13.jpg


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...cipient/14.jpg


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...cipient/15.jpg

*Donor IMG*

Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...onor/Donor.jpg


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ge/Donor/1.jpg


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ge/Donor/2.jpg


Click the below link for enlarge image
http://www.drnigams.net/images/RTN/D...ge/Donor/3.jpg


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Day 53: video link

http://youtu.be/pzfpTTMtlak

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

this is unbelievable, please Dr give us proof of large sessions of 4k grafts of that kind :EEK!:

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## Gjm127

The dude's a hustler, never seen this before! Props to you Dr. Nigam.

Thank you!

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

we must make a donate page and donate him for his research, lets all help curing this shit...


i mean really this guy is going to get kidnapped with the things he is achieving,  respect

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## FearTheLoss

Lol, you guys need to relax until things are proven. There are so many scammers in the hair loss industry, obviously you guys are new members so you haven't learned this and done your research yet. (not saying whether Nigam is a scammer or not, I would like to believe he's the real deal) You guys just need to calm yourselves and wait for proof before getting all excited and jumping to conclusions.

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

so some of us must get there and document this, bring it to the news etc,

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## FearTheLoss

yeah, I mean it's your decision, but be careful.

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## oppenheimer82

keep it coming dr nigam. very nice results indeed!

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## One

Dr Nigam what do you pay to user of forum your in vitro technique?

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## veca

The results are impressive indeed, but we still have not seen a classic transformation NW7 to NW1-2 ...
Dr. Nigam
Can you find one forum member who NW7 and turn gau NW1-2? To conclude, once and for all whether you are able to really achieve! Everything revolves around the theory and the "small" evidence. I do not want to be negative, to the contrary, I am very excited about the results but before I sit on a plane to Mumbai I want to see this transformation ...

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## didi

Dr Nigam

Can you find true slick nw6/7 and give him 5 000-6000 grafts in one session, 
shave his head to see if regeneration occurred and recipient will be easy to asses 

Give these guys free procedure +accommodation+flights...if success it will be the best investment ever..you know that already...so just DO IT

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## Arashi

> Dr Nigam
> 
> Can you find true slick nw6/7 and give him 5 000-6000 grafts in one session, 
> shave his head to see if regeneration occurred and recipient will be easy to asses 
> 
> Give these guys free procedure +accommodation+flights...if success it will be the best investment ever..you know that already...so just DO IT


 Not sure what happened Didi but lately i'm agreeing a lot to what you say  :Smile:  This indeed would be a GREAT way to show us proof of your technique, Dr Nigams.

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## santos

> Not sure what happened Didi but lately i'm agreeing a lot to what you say  This indeed would be a GREAT way to show us proof of your technique, Dr Nigams.


 I think its because we all want his "Dr.Nigams" procedure to work as claimed... so we all come together.  :Smile:

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## veca

That is what i am talking about, great Didi !!! Dr. Nigam just do that for us...

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## drnigams

One member from HRN,who joined before me..who is from mumbai..is slick bald..NW6 should be getting his doubling plus HM ..next month end...
Let's first focus on Tom Vercetti,a forum member and forum coordinator at french forum...results..
Procedure is on monday..and mat be repeat touch up for density on wednesday...

update  latest pics...of approx.5000G doubling to 10000G, all at recipient...done on an HT doc..in another thread...in a fortnight..

Plus another guy from malaysia ..is being followed up at another thread..who is around NW6..to be converted to NW2..in coming months..
 Regards your suggestion,
I have in mind ..one senior member from canada..who will shoot documentary and great photos..i will be doing at cost to cost for him..he will shortly working on my new website...

May be one day..you will understand..i am not here for bussiness or investment..i would rather invest on photon microscope..and research on HM, as we are still some distance from finding true cure through HM.
As per the visits planned by forum members..we will have one member every month..i think by this year end ..you will have sufficient independent documentation..




UOTE=didi;124868]Dr Nigam

Can you find true slick nw6/7 and give him 5 000-6000 grafts in one session, 
shave his head to see if regeneration occurred and recipient will be easy to asses 

Give these guys free procedure +accommodation+flights...if success it will be the best investment ever..you know that already...so just DO IT[/QUOTE]

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