# Men's Hair Loss > Introduce Yourself & Share Your Story >  Thinning crown but hairline is not receding.

## Feyd

So a little background about myself. I'm a 28 year old male with a family history of thinning hair and baldness. 

- My maternal grandfather was bald and my paternal great grandfather was bald. Both lost their hair at fairly young ages. 

- My older brother went completely bald at the top and front of his head by age 25, leaving only the 'horseshoe' appearance. I would say he's probably a VI on the Hamilton-Norwood scale. His hair loss occurred very quickly. 

- My mother has fairly thin and weak growing hair as she entered her 50s and so do some of her sisters. 

People on my mom's side either have nice thick hair well into old age or are lacking hair/bald. There does not seem to be much of a middle ground. Consequently, I'm fairly paranoid about hair loss.

Over the years, I've tried to keep an eye out for hair loss by paying attention to my hairline. I thought I might be spared from significant hair loss until my cousin pointed out that I had a bald spot with thinning hair at the back of my head. 

That definitely caught my attention. Unfortunately, I don't have any good pictures of the back of my head from years past to compare. If I am thinning, it has been gradual enough to escape my attention. I have not noticed clumps of hair in my pillow or anything like that. I do not take any drugs or medication, so I can at least rule out that as a source of hair loss. 

I've taken a few pictures of my hair, washed only with water. My biggest concern right now is the crown. A thinning spot is definitely noticeable. My family and friends think I'm being paranoid but to me the crown does look thin. 

What I find strangest of all is that my hairline has not changed at all. I still have a widow's peak and nothing has receded as far as I can tell. I always thought hair loss began at the front since that was the case for my brother and other family members with MPB. So what are your thoughts? Is this the beginning of MPB or something else? Should I consider trying a regimen of some kind or take my chances and see if it gets worse?

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

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## dex89

> So a little background about myself. I'm a 28 year old male with a family history of thinning hair and baldness. 
> 
> - My maternal grandfather was bald and my paternal great grandfather was bald. Both lost their hair at fairly young ages. 
> 
> - My older brother went completely bald at the top and front of his head by age 25, leaving only the 'horseshoe' appearance. I would say he's probably a VI on the Hamilton-Norwood scale. His hair loss occurred very quickly. 
> 
> - My mother has fairly thin and weak growing hair as she entered her 50s and so do some of her sisters. 
> 
> People on my mom's side either have nice thick hair well into old age or are lacking hair/bald. There does not seem to be much of a middle ground. Consequently, I'm fairly paranoid about hair loss.
> ...


 You should see a dermatologist or a hair specialist first before taking on a regime. If was in your shoes, propecia/proscar would be suitable. Use one treatment at a time before using  a whole regime to know which treatment is working for you.

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## elnino

i think its slightly patchy at the crown but fine at the front, just a mature hairline. this is where its tricky, its not that noticable so im not sure about going on meds to correct something that small or whats possibly natural. get a professional opinion.

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## Feyd

> You should see a dermatologist or a hair specialist first before taking on a regime. If was in your shoes, propecia/proscar would be suitable. Use one treatment at a time before using  a whole regime to know which treatment is working for you.


 Right, I definitely want to see a specialist before trying anything. So is Finasteride the generic form of propecia/proscar? 




> i think its slightly patchy at the crown but fine at the front, just a mature hairline. this is where its tricky, its not that noticable so im not sure about going on meds to correct something that small or whats possibly natural. get a professional opinion.


 To be honest I am a bit worried about or potentially making the hair situation worse through medications. I feel like I'm in a limbo state where it's not quite so bad to justify something like fin, but not okay enough to justify ignoring it. I'm just starting to read about hair loss in a more serious manner and the problem is I think my thinning has been gradual enough to catch me off guard. It's hard to say how "natural" it is.

So what does it mean if you have thinning hair at the crown but no receding hairline. Am I still a candidate for classic MPB? Also, how quickly does MPB manifest itself? Is it variable from person to person?

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## mpb47

> Right, I definitely want to see a specialist before trying anything. So is Finasteride the generic form of propecia/proscar? 
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest I am a bit worried about or potentially making the hair situation worse through medications. I feel like I'm in a limbo state where it's not quite so bad to justify something like fin, but not okay enough to justify ignoring it. I'm just starting to read about hair loss in a more serious manner and the problem is I think my thinning has been gradual enough to catch me off guard. It's hard to say how "natural" it is.
> 
> So what does it mean if you have thinning hair at the crown but no receding hairline. Am I still a candidate for classic MPB? Also, how quickly does MPB manifest itself? Is it variable from person to person?


 MPB has different variations and I have read in various places that it can start in the back rather than the front. My dad never lost any noticeable hair up front yet had a spot in the back in old age. I have seen several older men who looked almost like NW0's except for having spots in the back.
The spread of your mpb can change over time. It can come on fast...then stop for a good while..then start slowly... It is variable ...

Take pics every 3-6 months and see if you notice any changes. If you do, go to your dr and get on meds as it is easier to stop it, than regrow lost hair. Good luck!

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## konfusion

very nice frontal hair, I don't think you are a candidate for classic MPB considering your age, about the area on the back, it might be your natural swirl or maybe only little thinning. Only a dermo can tell you that, go and see one, what's the harm?

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## Feyd

Update:

Hello all, getting close to 3 years since those last pictures (taken in August). I went to see a dermatologist shortly after posting this thread and he recommended I take a wait and see approach before committing to anything.

Over the last 3 years I have noticed a gradual diffuse thinning of the scalp. Still no Recession of the hairline but I feel like it's not going to get any better.

I saw a dermatologist today who recommended I try Minoxidil for a few months before committing to Fin but still gave me a prescription for 1mg Propecia. 

Question: thoughts on starting Fin right away as opposed to waiting? Is it worth trying just Minox first as the dermatologist recommended? My prescription was submitted online for CVS... is there a cheap generic option that CVS offers?

I've attached pics I took a few days ago under very bright light.

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## Johny41

Hello Feyd,
Some men lose their hair in a faster way. You are lucky that 3 years has passed, but you still have full head of hair. 
As about the treatment, as I always say, everything is individual and for some men Minoxidil works, for others not. The only option to find it out is to try. I started the treatment with finasteride and I'm glad with this choice.
I can't say anything about the CVS pharmacy, as I buy generic finasteride from ok-pharmacy, but you can always contact them to find out whether the generics are available.

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## Feyd

Yeah it could be worse I suppose but in the end diffuse thinning results in the same thing as MPB as hair coverage simply diminishes on top of the scalp. I expect at this rate, I will be at NWVI in 5 years or so.

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## Johny41

You are right Feyd, thinning will result in MPB, that is why the sooner you start the treatment, the better.

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## TinTin

Hey Feyd, I'm in exactly the same situation as you are, no receding hairline but thinning which began at the crown and is beginning now to spread outwards over the vertex more as the years roll by.

Because of this I only really discovered it via people commenting on it whenever I was kneeling down or sat down and they were stood over me, I would get the odd comment and be like 'no I'm not going bald' as I never noticed until I did the double mirror thing and looked at my crown properly.

Been looking at Propecia for the last few months, read all the horror stories so literally crapping myself but at the same time wishing I would just pluck up the courage before it's too late to even bother thinking about saving my hair.

What have you done since the last post on here? You on fin yet?

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## Lyte

Greeting Feyd, my hair condition is essentially the same as yours. I want to compare my situation with yours so it'd be nice if you could answer the following questions:
Do you have Vitamin D deficiency?
Do you have scalp acne and/or dandruff?
Do you also notice almost no hairloss? E.g after sleeping/showering or if you pull your hair?
Do you sweat easily especially on the head?
Does your hair get greasy very quickly?
Did you or do you masturbate frequently? I know this question may sound stupid, but in the early days I masturbated like 3-4 times a day and I can't rule out that the hair thinning isn't related to it.

Best regards

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## TinTin

> Greeting Feyd, my hair condition is essentially the same as yours. I want to compare my situation with yours so it'd be nice if you could answer the following questions:
> Do you have Vitamin D deficiency?
> Do you have scalp acne and/or dandruff?
> Do you also notice almost no hairloss? E.g after sleeping/showering or if you pull your hair?
> Do you sweat easily especially on the head?
> Does your hair get greasy very quickly?
> Did you or do you masturbate frequently? I know this question may sound stupid, but in the early days I masturbated like 3-4 times a day and I can't rule out that the hair thinning isn't related to it.
> 
> Best regards


 Hey Lyte, I'm not Feyd but I posted on here due to similar circumstances.

1. I don't know about Vitamin D deficiency, how do you test for that?
2. Dandruff? Yes for most of my adult life - If I stop using Head&Shoulders I'm buggered basically.
3. Noticing Hairloss - Same as you, I notice almost no hair loss when I wake up, shower (granted I don't look when showering) or when putting in hair wax.
4. I sweat hugely on the head and also armpit sweat is a huge issue since puberty, not the smell but the fact my pits would be soaking wet.
5. As per number 4 I sweat and get greasy very quickly on my head/hair - I can skip one day of shampooing, but the day in which I skip, my hair is very greasy indeed.
6. Yes I masturbate once or twice a day. Years prior when I was also very gradually diffuse thinning I would masturbate 2 or 3 times a day. I masturbate slightly less now but now I'm 34 and not 26 so naturally 'time' probably affects that frequency.

My brother who is 1.5 years older than I am, he is suffering exactly the same hair loss pattern and progression as I do, (not sure how much he 'yanks his plank' and I'm not going to ask) but I would think that it's some nature of male pattern baldness.

Again I'm not Feyd but most likely we are in a similar boat.

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## Lyte

Hey TinTin, it's always better to know someone who's sharing the same fate as oneself rather than suffering on your own  :Big Grin: 

1. To test for Vitamin D deficiency a blood sample must be taken. The downside to it is that you most likely have to pay for it. Vitamin D is a versatile Vitamin and a deficiency will bring about several symptoms including hair thinning and abnormal sweating (abnormal as in sweating very quickly and amount of sweat). Although the human can produce it by being exposed to the sun, we don't absorb enough sun rays especially in the modern times, where we tend to work till afternoon and don't have the time for a nice walk outside. 
That's just a brief summary to what Vitamin D is, I guess google will bring you more information.
I've read that Vitamin D deficiency can result in hair thinning, but I do not know, if it only involves the crown area. From what I understand/interpret the thinning should be diffuse. 
2. Dandruff can prevent the new hair from growing, but that's just one in a million and a weak excuse for hair loss. I do not think that dandruff heavily affects ones hair loss. I had excessive scalp acne (and still have to a certain degree) and the scratching may have lead to scars so hair growth wouldn't be possible.
3. It seems like we have an unusual male pattern baldness (like Zidane). Is your front hairline also not affected?
4. I'm the same as you. I also sweat really, really easily. I just have to run for like 3 minutes and I'm already covered in sweat. 
5. Same. My problem is that I have to shower everyday, if I go outside, because my bedhair shows my scalp. But showering many times will activate the sebum production which results in greasy hair.  Brushing doesn't do any good (it looks so flat then) although I have straight hair. It's like a vicious cycle...
6. I do not know if hair loss / thinning is linked to masturbation. There are some articles and forums that are discussing the possible connection. Like excessive masturbation spikes your Testosterone production which leads to more Dihydrotestosterone which leads to hair loss. Google it, if you're curious. Fact is I masturbated a lot and as mentioned earlier I can't rule it out for sure. I have to say I'm already on the ''no masturbation'' challenge for one week and will post here. If I can save my hair that way, I'll just have to adapt to it.

Does your brother also show the symptoms?

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## TinTin

> Hey TinTin, it's always better to know someone who's sharing the same fate as oneself rather than suffering on your own 
> 
> 1. To test for Vitamin D deficiency a blood sample must be taken. The downside to it is that you most likely have to pay for it. Vitamin D is a versatile Vitamin and a deficiency will bring about several symptoms including hair thinning and abnormal sweating (abnormal as in sweating very quickly and amount of sweat). Although the human can produce it by being exposed to the sun, we don't absorb enough sun rays especially in the modern times, where we tend to work till afternoon and don't have the time for a nice walk outside. 
> That's just a brief summary to what Vitamin D is, I guess google will bring you more information.
> I've read that Vitamin D deficiency can result in hair thinning, but I do not know, if it only involves the crown area. From what I understand/interpret the thinning should be diffuse. 
> 2. Dandruff can prevent the new hair from growing, but that's just one in a million and a weak excuse for hair loss. I do not think that dandruff heavily affects ones hair loss. I had excessive scalp acne (and still have to a certain degree) and the scratching may have lead to scars so hair growth wouldn't be possible.
> 3. It seems like we have an unusual male pattern baldness (like Zidane). Is your front hairline also not affected?
> 4. I'm the same as you. I also sweat really, really easily. I just have to run for like 3 minutes and I'm already covered in sweat. 
> 5. Same. My problem is that I have to shower everyday, if I go outside, because my bedhair shows my scalp. But showering many times will activate the sebum production which results in greasy hair.  Brushing doesn't do any good (it looks so flat then) although I have straight hair. It's like a vicious cycle...
> ...


 1. I've just had a blood test, not sure if it included Vitamin D but I'll ask when I get the results on Friday, but I don't personally think that a Vitamin D deficiency would specifically cause crown/mid scalp thinning only, usually hairless outside of MPB happens anywhere and sometimes everywhere on the scalp.

3. Front hairline doesn't seem to be affected (touch wood).

4. I sweat a lot with exercises but no more than anyone else who exercises really, however my armpit sweat issue (which I've had way before the hair loss started) is related to anxiety/nerves as opposed to temperature i.e. I can be wearing a t-shirt it in zero Celsius temperature and have soaking wet armpits.

5. Washing hair frequently is never good for the hair. My hair felt amazing when I went an entire 2 weeks without washing it back in 2007, once I had washed it, it didn't get greasy for another 2 weeks. That was 8 years ago when my hair was thicker still and as you said, our bed-hair now shows our baldness so not washing our hair frequently is no longer a luxury we can enjoy.

6. I really do not see that there can be a link between masturbation and hair loss, nothing legitimate anyway. I mean if that were the case then every 18 year old would be shiny bald in a matter of months haha

My brother has the exact same hair loss pattern as myself, he's never had the excessive armpit sweating issue like myself though.

Annoyingly, both myself and my brother seem to be the the first ones in our family that suffer from baldness this early on in life (late 20's early 30's). My grandad on my mums side wasn't balding till about age 65/70 and my dad right now has a thicker crown than me at age 60. I think my grandad on my dad's side however might be the culprit, as he was definitely bald from what I remember as being a little kid, although I don't know how early he started balding as I wasn't on planet earth yet to see that occurring.

I think that we are quite simply victims of male pattern baldness as with others, however unlike the typical norwood scale I believe we suffer from *DPA* which stands for 'Diffuse Patterned Alopecia' - give it a google

It's weird for people like ourselves, because we only really notice that we are beginning to go bald when we sit down or kneel down and someone says hey 'are you going bald?' and initially our response is 'no! what are you talking about', whereas the typical Norwood receding hairline types see it immediately happening in the mirror each day. And as we don't see it each day we (well at least myself) convinced myself that it was not actually happening, but now my crown is very thin so there's 'no two ways about it'.

I miss the care-free days of not waking up and the fist thing I do is check whether or not I'm showing a bald spot on my vertex due to how my hair has fallen. Getting older is a bummer, no doubt about it.

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## Lyte

Hey, yeah, I don't fully believe in the masturbation hair loss link either, but it's just me clinging to the last ray of hope and avoiding the realitiy  :Big Grin:   :Big Grin:  Anyway, I'll just give it a try, can't hurt. The only thing I will demonstrate is that my mind is indeed above my body and I am in full control of it haha  :Big Grin: 
I googled DPA and I'm wondering if it always starts at the crown area. My hair isn't diffuse at all. In fact its still thick at the front and back, but that doesn't mean I don't believe that I might have DPA. If that's true, Finasterid is the way to go, but I'm still sceptical about using it...

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## TinTin

> Hey, yeah, I don't fully believe in the masturbation hair loss link either, but it's just me clinging to the last ray of hope and avoiding the realitiy   Anyway, I'll just give it a try, can't hurt. The only thing I will demonstrate is that my mind is indeed above my body and I am in full control of it haha 
> I googled DPA and I'm wondering if it always starts at the crown area. My hair isn't diffuse at all. In fact its still thick at the front and back, but that doesn't mean I don't believe that I might have DPA. If that's true, Finasterid is the way to go, but I'm still sceptical about using it...


 You could go to your doctor to get his evaluation of your hair loss. My loss started at the crown like yours so that's by far the most bald area at this point, that was noticeable about 5 or 6 years ago but the top was still thick so I was in-denial about the whole thing. But now for me it's the entire top area that is thinning, I just did't realise about the front as much until I put my hair in a centre-parting and was like ohhh crap I'm full on going bald here.

I am also sceptical about gong on finasteride, or should I say nervous rather, because of possible side effects. Again your doctor might be able to comment on taking fin. My doctor said that he had seem some very impressive results from people taking fin, but he said to me "when do you stop taking it?" haha, I was like 'I don't know'.

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## Lyte

I've been once to a doctor and it took her a whole 5 seconds to determine "yeah you're getting bald". Upon closer inspection she ripped about 10 hairstrings from my scalp and said something which I cant remember anymore, but it was something highly indicating that I was getting bald. She recommended me Regaine which I used for about 7 months, but I never had the shedding phase nor did it improve my crown area at all. It didn't get any worse though either, so thats when I stopped with Regaine.

On a side note: The visit to the doctor was 1.5 year ago and back then I took pictures of my crown and it hasnt changed much since then. 

Do you have pictures of your crown when you first noticed the thinning and now? I'd like to see how much it has changed. You don't have to upload them here, ofc.. You can pm me if you like.
If you want I can show mine as well.

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## TinTin

Yeah it sounds similar to my visit to the doc's, other than my doctor stopped me on the way out of his room and said I'll give you some blood tests, so I went and got them done and will find out the results of them this coming Friday when he calls me up.

Yeah Regaine probably does help some people for a period of time, but I've heard that if you are serious about stopping hair loss from MPB then fin is the only way forward. I've not tried either as yet.

I don't have any pics from years ago as like I said I was in full-on denial stage, I didn't even bother to check the hair loss out myself despite getting the odd comment from work colleges and girlfriend, I couldn't see it from my usual frontal view in the bathroom mirror so in my mind it wasn't actually happening.

These days I'm literally scared crap-less to take a photo of my crown, as looking at the photo makes me feel physically sick :/ I do check my head weekly now though and if I start fin then I will defo be taking some photos in consistent lighting and with the same camera each time so I can judge any progress, should I have any.

Just wish there weren't any risks to using fin and I would have got in it months ago, but reading all this crap on the internet just plays on my mind so I keep putting it off. Such a bummer, you're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

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## Lyte

I really feel you. It's always such a huge letdown to see a bright patch on your crown fully knowing that if you can see it will, too and the only thing you can do is pathetically styling your hair in a way so the bald spot is somewhat hidden or just wearing a hat.... well, there goes the self esteem.  

Yeah, I've also read that fin is the only reliable medicament right now.. unfortunately. Sure regaine may work for some people, but the success stories and photos didn't impress me nearly as fin did. 

Guess all we can do is wait for a gen theraphy haha  :Big Grin:  Though I don't think it will happen soon. The pharmaceutical industry doesn't give a damn about us, guess it's much more profitable to treat the balding rather than curing it.

I really hope your blood test will bring bad results, not in a mean way, just so your hair thinning is not because of genetics, but other factors.  :Big Grin:  Also ask your doc about your thyroid and Vitamin D levels.

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## TinTin

Haha I'm not sure how long I will be able to wait until it will become pointless to treat... even fin won't grow back a completely bald crown.

Yeah one of the blood tests was definitely for thyroid as I mentioned to him the fact that my mum has an underachieve thyroid, but I'm not sure what the other tests were for now.

I'll see what he tells me over the phone this Friday then I'll post back on here.

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## TinTin

Ok mate, I just got off the phone to my doctor regarding the blood tests, I'd had 2 tests, one for 'thyroid' and one for 'ferritin' (which is iron storage protein).

He said my thyroid is fine, but my ferritin levels are too high which can be related to various things including stress, virus, genetics and from consuming high amounts of alcohol, which is something I do, I drink most evenings, not to get drunk but just when making dinner as a creative thing, but I can drink quite a bit some nights. I obviously told him about my drinking and he said yeah it would be a good idea to cut down the drinking, which I will happily do.

In terms of the hair loss though, he said that having high ferritin levels will not be related to it. And the fact that my brother doesn't drink much compared to me and has the exact same pattern of hair loss rules that out too.

So yeah male hair loss for me, looks like it's try fin or accept my balding fate, can't say I'm at surprised.

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## Lyte

I'm sorry for responding so late, but I had some issues... 

It's good to hear that you don't have any health problems. When I had my blood sample taken I also had too high ferritin levels, but it wasn't too severe so I don't pay too much attention to it. 

Regarding the hair loss... well, unfortunately it seems like it's indeed the work of your genes. Did you consider using the laser hair growth therapy? I can't say for myself whether it's working or not, but it sounds promising and there's little to no side/after-effects compared to fin. It's quite expensive, but in the long run it'd be cheaper (if it's working...) than fin. 

Well, I honestly don't know what to say... it frankly just sucks seeing yourself aging, but I wish you best of luck. I for now will wait and see how my hairline is progressing since I'm too afraid of fin's side-effects and ''just'' 25 years old. Who knows, maybe I'm lucky and I can keep my hair as it is now, but I'm not expecting too much. If you're considering using fin or any other product keep me updated.

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## Feyd

> Greeting Feyd, my hair condition is essentially the same as yours. I want to compare my situation with yours so it'd be nice if you could answer the following questions:
> Do you have Vitamin D deficiency?
> Do you have scalp acne and/or dandruff?
> Do you also notice almost no hairloss? E.g after sleeping/showering or if you pull your hair?
> Do you sweat easily especially on the head?
> Does your hair get greasy very quickly?
> Did you or do you masturbate frequently? I know this question may sound stupid, but in the early days I masturbated like 3-4 times a day and I can't rule out that the hair thinning isn't related to it.
> 
> Best regards


 Been a while. Still haven't had the courage to jump on fin but I have been trying just Minox these past few months. Results are about the same. No worse but not really any better. Existing hairs seems thicker but I have not seen any regrowth. I also never had a big shed that people often talk about.

I am using the foam Minox. Could it be my hair is too long and its not getting absorbed into the scalp all that well?

*Do you have Vitamin D deficiency?
Do you have scalp acne and/or dandruff?*

Answering these two together is they are related. I did in fact have a D deficiency. For years now I was having acne on my shoulder blades and upper back. Nothing I did made a difference even when I completely stopped eating refined sugars. A couple months ago, based on some advice, I started taking Magnesium, Zinc, and 800 IU of D3 along with a megadose of D3 once a week to get my levels up. Complete transformation. I no longer get acne except for the occasional small bump.

I used to have bad dandruff and an itchy scalp and use anti-dandruff shampoo every day. With this vitamin regimen, my scalp feels healthier and I am gradually reducing the # of days I shampoo. 

It may not make a huge difference for thinning but is something to consider for scalp health anyways.

*Do you also notice almost no hairloss? E.g after sleeping/showering or if you pull your hair?*

Yeah, generally I've never noticed massive sheds. My hairloss has been diffuse and very gradual. It's hard to say when it started. It could have been in my mid 20s for all I know.

*Do you sweat easily especially on the head?*

I sweat and overheat very easily. 

*Does your hair get greasy very quickly?*

If I go longer than a day, like camping, my hair becomes a greasy mess. Although with the vitamin regimen I mentioned above seems to have changed this but I haven't gone camping since I started it.

*Did you or do you masturbate frequently? I know this question may sound stupid, but in the early days I masturbated like 3-4 times a day and I can't rule out that the hair thinning isn't related to it.*

Don't think it has anything to do with it. For me it is much less than my early twenties.

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## Lyte

I have to say looking at your photos is like watching myself in the mirror.... especially the first pic I can relate. It looks particularly patchy when exposed to sunlight and viewing from a certain angle. 
The problem for me is that the hair in the crown is  thin compared to the others, still dense though. Also my hair in that area (I don't know how it is for you) is really, really soft - like baby hair and not bristled like e.g. in the back or front.

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## Lyte

So it has been more than two years, are there any updates from your side Feyd? I am very curious what happened

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