# Men's Hair Loss > Hair Loss Treatments > Cutting Edge / Future Treatments >  Hellouser's RU Log (with Minox, CB Nizoral and Saw Palmetto)

## hellouser

Many of you have seen me post and boast about RU and many of you have also inquired about my progress... well, here is my log.

I noticed my hair going bad.. I mean really bad back in around March of 2011. I didn't notice it thin out or anything, but rather my hair line go waaaay back than what it used to be. I noticed this after I was at a club with friends and had some pictures of myself taken. The lighting on my face was rather harsh and it exposed a lot of scalp behind the hairline which made the hairline look higher than it actually is. This is where my life started going downhill..... its when I realized I looked fvcking weird and it was my hair. By this time I was already an NW2-3, but I never really took much notice into my hairline.. I didn't care about it before, I thought I looked normal (I mean I still do, but society is full of shithead assholes so no, by their standards I dont look normal).

*February, 2011* - Before Regimen
So I started reading about things that can be done. I learned about Saw Palmetto, Nizoral, Finasteride, hair transplants and Replicel. I read about Finasteride castrating men and giving many side effects and it was a complete write off. It still is and its a dangerous drug which no man should take. I'm not saying I'd take it away from those who are already on it with results, but Finasteride is pure bullshit. My first line of defense? Saw Palmetto, and even with that I was hesitant as I ready about mild effects. But the bad breathe issue was the worst problem. It subsided eventually though.

Here's what my hair looked like then (these are from a club, so apologies for the crappy quality). Mind you, I used to use a good but 'wet' product called Bedhead by Tigi. This makes hair look quite thin as it climps hair real close together, hence it looking thin below.







So here's where I start fighting this disease that nobody cares about;

*April, 2011*
I start taking saw palmetto. Did my research, relatively small sides if any, much safer than finasteride, 1 pill a day (eventually moved up to 2 pills a day, 160mg each). Also started using Nizoral.

*June, 2011*
I start taking Kirkland's Minoxidil 2&#37;, twice a day. I suppose in the pics below I shed a bit however I don't remember freaking out about hairs in the tub or on my pillow.





*October, 2011*
Ordered 5grams of RU from Ontario Chemicals and start using in 1ml application of 0.7ml isopropyl (wrong vehicle) and 0.3ml of PG. Concentration of RU was probably about 10mg. USELESS. At this dosage, almost impossible to get side effects more so since I was using isopropyl.
RU is now applied once daily, Minoxidil once daily as well.

*March, 2012*
In the picture below I am 5 months into using 1ml of RU with about 1-2% concentration (10-20mg) with about 1ml of Minoxidil at 2%. I should mention that while I'm on this regimen, I often used only 0.5ml total per day which all went into my hairline. The rest of my pathetic head I battled with Minox.



*September, 2012*
Ran out of 5g of RU (yeah, after 11 months). Order 10g of RU from Ontario Chemicals again, still using Isopropyl but upped the dosage of RU to 5% concentration per 1ml (so 50mg per 1ml) and used once daily. Still on Minoxidil 2% once daily, still on Saw Palmetto and Nizoral.

No further loss, no shedding still but no regrowth either.

*October, 2012*
Below we can see I've had regrowth!





*December, 2012*
Ran out of 2% Minoxidil from Kirklands, changed it to Kirklands 5%.

MASSIVE SHEDDING (therefor, major loss in density).

Hair got thinner immediately in the following weeks.
Still on RU at 5% in 1ml, Saw Palmetto and Nizoral.

*January, 2013*
Below is a photo of my hair RIGHT after a lot of Minox was applied all over and we see a drastic change for the worse. The shedding from the switch to Minoxidil at 5% is evident and things look terrible. Mind you in the photos below I am using between 1.5-2ml of Minoxidil and these pictures are IMMEDIATELY after application hence my hair looks wet and thin.





*February 6th, 2013*
Photos below show whats going on:



*February 15th, 2013*
STILL SHEDDING and most likely due to going from 2% to 5% minoxidil. Shedding is common and usually a sign of efficacy. Ran out of RU, got 10g again of RU, but also purchased Everclear to fix the vehicle. Upped the dosage of RU to about 100mg per 1ml (thus 10% solution) once daily.



Below it is very VERY clear I've lost a lot of density.




*March, 2013*
Shedding slowing down significantly. No regrowth yet however small hairs have shown up around the hairline.

*April 19th, 2013*
Havent had a haircut since January/February so hair is quite long. Still shedding. But: LOTS of new hairs have sprouted around the hairline and the small hairs at hairline visible 1 month prior are now longer, but only visible when seen up close. I hope the same holds true for the vertex and crown to hold onto my hair until Aderans/Histogen is out. 





*April 20th, 2013*
Day of haircut! Behold! Density is back!





*Currently:*
Today is May 1st, and I recently added CB once daily at 1% (1-1.5ml) thus the new regimen is now:

100mg RU in 1ml, once daily
10-15mg CB in 1ml or 1.5ml, once daily
Minoxidil 5% at about 1.5ml, once daily
Saw Palmetto (320mg - 550mg daily, depending on available pills)
Nizoral 2%

I'm also using some shampoos with Saw Palmetto and am planning on acquiring MiN New York hair products (a clay which contains saw palmetto and azelaic acid, probably useless but better than nothing).

I've also noticed THICK and DARK terminal hairs show up at the hairline! These are hairs I dont remember seeing from a while back and potentially havent been around in years! There aren't many, maybe about 20, but its a clear sign things are working.

Future treatment:

I recently acquired Lubrajel, the same vehicle used in the study for BNP-32 as a topical treatment for hair loss. You can read about this peptide here or my general summary here

I have quite a bit of cash saved up for a surgical treatment for Dr. Gho, but if the guys from other forums already experimenting with BNP-32 get results, I will be buying some BNP-32 myself and using my lubrajel to regrow the temples and entire scalp. If that fails, its Gho time (or someone else that can offer regeneration).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

I do want to say though that the last two years of my life have EASILY been the most depressing, most angry, most lacking. I'm trying to wait very patiently for a treatment from Histogen and Aderans.

If anyone is curious about how effective is CB? I don't know yet, its too soon to tell.

As for side effects? None from RU as far as I can tell. No brain fog, no limp-finasteride-dick however I have experienced many drops in Libido from Saw Palmetto. Whats weird is that sometimes my libido is RAGING high and I'll be getting random stiffies at work too. Though I suppose the reduced libido could also be due to physical inactivity and general depression.

I hope this helps. I'll post more in the future.

Also, if anyone wants to know how to acquire, mix, apply, etc RU, I've made a complete guide here; http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?p=120497

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## FearTheLoss

LOL at people like Tracy who say RU doesn't work for people with "actual" MPB.

Not to downgrade Tracy because she is very helpful to a lot of people on the forum, but the days of propecia being the only good treatment are over.

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## hellouser

> LOL at people like Tracy who say RU doesn't work for people with "actual" MPB.
> 
> Not to downgrade Tracy because she is very helpful to a lot of people on the forum, but the days of propecia being the only good treatment are over.


 She's part of the reason why I made the log public. I got tired of her FDA dickriding. This will hopefully shut her up.

But I've said it before, that if a drug was released for women that compromised the use of her snatch, she'd be singing a different tune. Oh who am I kidding, if a drug was released for women, it'd be a cure. Nobody cares about mens health. Sigh.

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## UK_

LOOL Tracy said RU doesnt work?  Ive been on the stuff for 6 months and its done absolute wonders.

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## greatjob!

Thank you for this brotha!! This is some of the best documentation and results I've seen of these treatments so far. I have had my doubts about all of these treatments, and since I have experienced no sides from fin I didn't see the need for them, however after this thread I think I am gonna have to give this a go. Good work and congrats on your gains!!

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## UK_

Hellouser - in your honest opinion what do you think has been the most effective treatment from your regimen?

I know we all take the piss out of saw palmetto - but its effects on DHT levels have been readily observed and it's clear it has some effect on hair loss (almost like a very weak finasteride).

Its also quite amazing the difference between the picture taken in February 2013 to the one taken in April 2013, is that due to the length of the hair?

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## hellouser

> Hellouser - in your honest opinion what do you think has been the most effective treatment from your regimen?
> 
> I know we all take the piss out of saw palmetto - but its effects on DHT levels have been readily observed and it's clear it has some effect on hair loss (almost like a very weak finasteride).


 Seeing how I've been on Saw Palmetto for a long time, or since the beginning (2 years ago) its evident that its done next to nothing given the recent shed and April, 2013's results.

I'm thinking of ditching saw palmetto to increase my libido. I left for Europe last year for 2 months and didnt take my saw palmetto pills with me. After about 1 months my libido was very high.

Oddly enough though, my libido was also REALLY high during December, 2012 while on saw palmetto. I suppose it could be RU though.

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## PatientlyWaiting

I see the thickness in your hair in that latest pic. Keep at it and keep this thread updated. RU needs as much users with before and after pics as possible.

Congrats on the success and I hope you continue to get great results.

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## The Alchemist

Wow, you've gone through some major swings in hair density!  That's got to be rough on the mental health.  But, the good news is that you've found something that works for you.  Keep at it and good luck.

Did you get the RU through a group buy?  I've always been too afraid to try it.  I'm very sensitive to finasteride and will never go near that crap again or anything like it.

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## FearTheLoss

I don't understand why people are skeptical about RU...in clinical trials it out performed Finasteride by a good amount at 6months

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## clandestine

Wonderful gains, seriously. And good documentation. 

I envy your ability to muck 100mg RU/day!

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## hellouser

> Wow, you've gone through some major swings in hair density!  That's got to be rough on the mental health.  But, the good news is that you've found something that works for you.  Keep at it and good luck.
> 
> Did you get the RU through a group buy?  I've always been too afraid to try it.  I'm very sensitive to finasteride and will never go near that crap again or anything like it.


 I actually bought it from a guy that was opting out of meds and going for an HT. He sold me his RU, which is what I've been using. He got it from a group buy.

Best $200 I've ever spent, lol.

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## UK_

> Wonderful gains, seriously. And good documentation. 
> 
> I envy your ability to muck 100mg RU/day!


 Why? because of side effects ?  cost?

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## UK_

> I actually bought it from a guy that was opting out of meds and going for an HT. He sold me his RU, which is what I've been using. He got it from a group buy.
> 
> Best $200 I've ever spent, lol.


 You can get the 1% bottle from MPB treatments and its ready-mixed.

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## PatientlyWaiting

> You can get the 1% bottle from MPB treatments and its ready-mixed.


 About 2 weeks ago I wanted to buy it from them, but i'm in the U.S. and that seems to be one of the products they don't ship to us. I wonder when they will ship RU over here.

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## hellouser

> You can get the 1% bottle from MPB treatments and its ready-mixed.


 1% is way too weak, especially premixed as you dont know how long its been sitting premixed and how long it could be stuck in customs. If its been in the solution for more than 6 weeks (which sometimes can be in customs for that long) then your risking it. Regardless, I wouldnt even bother with RU at 1%.

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## FearTheLoss

I agree with Hell..the minimum I've seen RU work at, and by work I mean stopping further loss, is 20mg daily....to be safe I would use at least 50mg daily.

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## PatientlyWaiting

So 50mg a day is the least you should use for it be effective enough to thicken up your hair? So does any one know what would be the safest dose to actually get regrowth? Maybe 80mg a day?

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## UK_

> 1% is way too weak, especially premixed as you dont know how long its been sitting premixed and how long it could be stuck in customs. If its been in the solution for more than 6 weeks (which sometimes can be in customs for that long) then your risking it. Regardless, I wouldnt even bother with RU at 1%.


 Is there a guide for mixing this stuff yourself?  MPBTreatments say they mix on the day of dispatch but I guess the customs issue is a concern, id much prefer to self-mix because I think stability and dosage differences is the main problem when buying pre-mixed solutions.

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## hellouser

> Is there a guide for mixing this stuff yourself?  MPBTreatments say they mix on the day of dispatch but I guess the customs issue is a concern, id much prefer to self-mix because I think stability and dosage differences is the main problem when buying pre-mixed solutions.


 dude, come on! LOL, i posted a thread about a usage guide AND a link to this thread at the bottom of my post in THIS thread!

Anyway, click here: http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=12391

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## clandestine

> Why? because of side effects ?  cost?


 Side effects.

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## StayThick

> dude, come on! LOL, i posted a thread about a usage guide AND a link to this thread at the bottom of my post in THIS thread!
> 
> Anyway, click here: http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=12391


 Some of you guys really need to read the thread and stop skimming through information, especially when somebody takes the time to write a detailed description on their progress.

Nice job Hellouser. I personally appreciate the time you put in outlining your battle with hairloss and the pictures that detail your regimen and progress. This is only going to assist me and others as they try to find a solution/treatment that works for them. Awesome stuff.

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## StayThick

> *March, 2012*
> In the picture below I am 5 months into using 1ml of RU with about 1-2&#37; concentration (10-20mg) with about 1ml of Minoxidil at 2%. I should mention that while I'm on this regimen, I often used only 0.5ml total per day which all went into my hairline. The rest of my pathetic head I battled with Minox.


 You increased your dosage from this and have recommended starting at 50mg (5%) solution of RU, yet for 5 months you used a 1-2% concentration. Wouldn't that be a concentration I should start with considering I am prone to sides with FIN and want to ease myself into this?

I mean 5 months is a long time at that solution. Is it that 5% you found the most success with limited to no side-effects, which is why you recommend starting at that dosage?

Just curious. Again, awesome write-up.

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## FearTheLoss

> Side effects.


 Try using RU with KB man...I haven't heard of hardly anyone who's had side effects with the KB vehicle...it was designed to eliminate sides

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## mmmcoffee

So if I were to consider RU...should I quit fin or use them conjunctively? I haven't noticed any hit to my libido using .5mg of fin a day but also no outstanding results.

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## hellouser

> So if I were to consider RU...should I quit fin or use them conjunctively? I haven't noticed any hit to my libido using .5mg of fin a day but also no outstanding results.


 Actually, if I were on fin without side effects, id add RU into the mix as well and see what the two combined can do along with minox.

Yeah it'd be a bit of extra work but would be really interesting to see how much DHT is suppressed and how much regrowth one would get.

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## hellouser

> You increased your dosage from this and have recommended starting at 50mg (5%) solution of RU, yet for 5 months you used a 1-2% concentration. Wouldn't that be a concentration I should start with considering I am prone to sides with FIN and want to ease myself into this?
> 
> I mean 5 months is a long time at that solution. Is it that 5% you found the most success with limited to no side-effects, which is why you recommend starting at that dosage?
> 
> Just curious. Again, awesome write-up.


 You could, and perhaps its best if you start low and work your way up until you notice side effects. I wouldnt go higher than 10% though (100mg/1ml).

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## Hairismylife

Why Gho? You've got good regrowth!

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## bananana

mpbtreatments.com has 5% RU strength, I'm thinking about trying it, you have a very similar mpb to me and you really got a great regrowth..

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

hellouser congrats

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## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

can you post some pics? thanks. lol tracy looks like she works for a company its ridiculus


> LOOL Tracy said RU doesnt work?  Ive been on the stuff for 6 months and its done absolute wonders.

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## MrBlonde

I nominate Hellouser for poster of the year.

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## Pentarou

> I don't understand why people are skeptical about RU...


 Difficulty getting a reliable supply, and suppliers. Plenty of people have had their fingers burnt in the past, sadly.

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## clandestine

> Try using RU with KB man...I haven't heard of hardly anyone who's had side effects with the KB vehicle...it was designed to eliminate sides


 Thanks, but I do use RU with KB. I'm just very (very) prone to side effects. Fin, saw palmetto, RU, whatever aa; doesn't matter.

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## WarLord

> LOL at people like Tracy who say RU doesn't work for people with "actual" MPB.
> 
> Not to downgrade Tracy because she is very helpful to a lot of people on the forum, but the days of propecia being the only good treatment are over.


 In Europe, we have a good anti-androgen topical called Alpicort F. It is produced by a certain German doctor. It consists of estradiol and corticosteroids. I used it in 1997-99, before switching to minoxidil completely. No regrowth, but a very reliable maintenance. The only problem lies in potential side effects: atrophy of the skin.

What is very interesting is the fact that I observed no problems during switching from Alpicort F to minoxidil. I think that if I made a switch in the opposite direction, it would end up as a disaster.

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## WarLord

> Difficulty getting a reliable supply, and suppliers. Plenty of people have had their fingers burnt in the past, sadly.


 It is insanely expensive, even from China. I got an offer 320 USD for 1 g. I don't know, how MPBtreatments can sell 3 g for 79 USD.
http://www.mpbtreatments.com/#/shop/...lution/1716974

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## WarLord

> mpbtreatments.com has 5% RU strength, I'm thinking about trying it, you have a very similar mpb to me and you really got a great regrowth..


 But take into consideration that his regrowth was very probably thanks to RU *and* minoxidil.

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## hellouser

> But take into consideration that his regrowth was very probably thanks to RU *and* minoxidil.


 The insane shed I went through from December 2012 -February 2013 was without a doubt at the hands of Minoxidil.

It remains to be seen how well RU works in the coming months but so far things look great.

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## BaldJerry

I hope RU works for a while.  I have read 2 different people where it works for 5months to a year then a nasty shed takes place and it stops working.  This is my biggest concern as my hair has gotten much thicker on it.  In the mean time I am looking into CB and ASC-J9

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## hellouser

> In Europe, we have a good anti-androgen topical called Alpicort F. It is produced by a certain German doctor. It consists of estradiol and corticosteroids. I used it in 1997-99, before switching to minoxidil completely. No regrowth, but a very reliable maintenance. The only problem lies in potential side effects: *atrophy of the skin.*
> 
> What is very interesting is the fact that I observed no problems during switching from Alpicort F to minoxidil. I think that if I made a switch in the opposite direction, it would end up as a disaster.


 Isnt atrophy a common side effect from topical steroids?

I'm curious though, if CB will have a similar effect if at all given that it only requires to be used at 1&#37; concentration.

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## Cob984

Hellouser, has the CB done anything or is it too early to tell?
im still skeptical of RU cause of sides,
is CB worth it right now?

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## Conpecia

wow, awesome post hellouser. this might have single-handedly convinced me to try ru and see what happens. considering i'm already on 5% minox and looking at your results in these pics, it seems like a pretty incredible combination. unfortunately i'm like clan and have horrible sides to fin. but maybe i can get away with a kb vehicle? might as well give it a shot, nothing to lose but more hair that will be lost anyways, right? i can always stop if the sides get bad.

only concerns are potential longterm sides and the potential loss of efficacy, that 5 months then massive shed without any gains rumor scares me. but if i get regrowth even close to yours and it doesn't lose efficacy, there's no way i won't make it to 2015. 

this plus bnp-32 on the rise! i'm telling you guys, the next gen of treatments is going to come from the forums many, many years before the big companies release similar products. 

anyways, great job and thanks for taking the time.

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## WarLord

> I hope RU works for a while.  I have read 2 different people where it works for 5months to a year then a nasty shed takes place and it stops working.  This is my biggest concern as my hair has gotten much thicker on it.  In the mean time I am looking into CB and ASC-J9


 If they don't post photos, then it didn't happen. I have been lurking about internet forums for about a year, and one big lesson for me was that these forums are full of nuts that are borderline mentally ill. They whine, how they lose ground, how nothing works and how their hair is in the worst state ever - and if you ask them for a photo, you will get a head full of thick hair and no visible traces of hairloss.

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## hellouser

> If they don't post photos, then it didn't happen. I have been lurking about internet forums for about a year, and one big lesson for me was that these forums are full of nuts that are borderline mentally ill. They whine, how they lose ground, how nothing works and how their hair is in the worst state ever - and if you ask them for a photo, you will get a head full of thick hair and no visible traces of hairloss.


 There are some of us that dont fall into that category.

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## UK_

I would laugh if RU minox had nothing to do with regrowth and it was all down to saw palmetto  :Big Grin:

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## LongWayHome

Hellouser my little yoda...
Thank you for that, I just started RU 5% from mpb's and thinking of ordering 1 month from now from Kane.
I started 15% minox too, and I want to have 3 things for a boost up, so I'm starting in a few days Neogenic, which is a cute bullshit, but still, kind of a booster, just in case...

I've used 15% minox before for like 8 months and nothing special happened, so if something is going to happen now it would be because of the RU.
(I'm not even gonna mention Neogenic, HAHA...maybe 1 hair though)

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## hellouser

> I would laugh if RU minox had nothing to do with regrowth and it was all down to saw palmetto


 That was my first attempt at fighting hairloss and its still in my regimen, but clearly its done next to nothign. I'm thinking of getting off of it completely.

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## Cob984

> Hellouser my little yoda...
> Thank you for that, I just started RU 5% from mpb's and thinking of ordering 1 month from now from Kane.
> I started 15% minox too, and I want to have 3 things for a boost up, so I'm starting in a few days Neogenic, which is a cute bullshit, but still, kind of a booster, just in case...
> 
> I've used 15% minox before for like 8 months and nothing special happened, so if something is going to happen now it would be because of the RU.
> (I'm not even gonna mention Neogenic, HAHA...maybe 1 hair though)


 Finally you show up, any sides bro on the RU? like keratene?
Also neogenic seems to be quite praised on HLH as a complementary treatment, and the guys there arent easy to please trust me

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## LongWayHome

Well...I just started the RU, like a week ago, so nothing to report..
About neogenic, really?? is that so...
Can you post the link to that topic?
I only see a topic that ends on january 2013.
I guess it can do something, not much, but something.
After all that claiming they did with the "1700 new hairs" it has to do something better than aminexil. I hope.

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## mm05035

where do you buy RU from brother?

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## BaldJerry

> wow, awesome post hellouser. this might have single-handedly convinced me to try ru and see what happens. considering i'm already on 5&#37; minox and looking at your results in these pics, it seems like a pretty incredible combination. unfortunately i'm like clan and have horrible sides to fin. but maybe i can get away with a kb vehicle? might as well give it a shot, nothing to lose but more hair that will be lost anyways, right? i can always stop if the sides get bad.
> 
> only concerns are potential longterm sides and the potential loss of efficacy, that 5 months then massive shed without any gains rumor scares me. but if i get regrowth even close to yours and it doesn't lose efficacy, there's no way i won't make it to 2015. 
> 
> this plus bnp-32 on the rise! i'm telling you guys, the next gen of treatments is going to come from the forums many, many years before the big companies release similar products. 
> 
> anyways, great job and thanks for taking the time.


 The 5 months massive shed thing only happened to 1 guy and he admitted it could have been bad RU.  So I don't want these "rumors" to get to much credibility.  I know many people that used RU for 4-5 years.  This is just a concern of mine cause I got great results as well from the drug.

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## BaldJerry

> If they don't post photos, then it didn't happen. I have been lurking about internet forums for about a year, and one big lesson for me was that these forums are full of nuts that are borderline mentally ill. They whine, how they lose ground, how nothing works and how their hair is in the worst state ever - and if you ask them for a photo, you will get a head full of thick hair and no visible traces of hairloss.


 Yeah I probably should not have even post that cause people take everything as truth.  Point is RU clearly works as evidenced by Hell's pics.

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## jlantern

I dont know how anyone can say RU doesn't work.  If anything ill let "RU may or may not work slide"  Hellouser and I both are getting gains from it.  I am noticing results in just 2 months out.   When it comes to CB the Jury is still out too.

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## UK_

Hellouser call me a lazy bastard for not reading but where are you getting your CB from?  I thought Cosmo had patented that molecule.

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## hellouser

> this plus bnp-32 on the rise! i'm telling you guys, the next gen of treatments is going to come from the forums many, many years before the big companies release similar products.


 If that happens, that is going to be a colossal failure for all the other players with their team of 'experts'.

What the hell have they been doing for 5, 10, 20 years? Aderans has been researching and running trials for 10 years. That is a STUNNING length of time to be bullshitting around. I'm all for Aderans releasing a product, but they have failed utterly in hitting a reasonable deadline.

10+ YEARS and theyre just scraping by with finishing phase TWO... just NOW, in 2013?

*What the ****** has Aderans been doing for the last ten years?!*

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## hellouser

> Hellouser call me a lazy bastard for not reading but where are you getting your CB from?  I thought Cosmo had patented that molecule.


 Group Buy. But its the wrong form (form 1), thus doesnt completely dissolve.

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## LMS

> Group Buy. But its the wrong form (form 1), thus doesnt completely dissolve.


 Wait do you know about the type kane sells?  I was/am going to buy RU from kane in the near future.

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## hellouser

> Wait do you know about the type kane sells?  I was/am going to buy RU from kane in the near future.


 Wrong form as well I think. He doesnt currently sell CB, he took it off the store.

I'd give it time.

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## BaldJerry

think he is getting CB within a week.

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## Boldy

Wohw, Nice improvemant hellouser..


here is a post of ziom1990 on HLH of his 10 weeks RU journey.


http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...VIEWTMP=Linear 

[IMG]http://s18.postimg.org/q2jjfu1x5/*******2.jpg[/IMG]

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## UK Boy

I think that it's clear from Hellouser's pictures that RU does have a positive effect but why is it that there seems to be flucuations of the positive effects? In Hellouser's pics his hair gets visably better in the first few months but at the start of this year his hair was looking worse again until quiet recently when it thickened up again. Looking at Irish Prides photo log his hair also seemed to flucuate over the course of his log too. Also just looking at that link to HLH there's a guy on the thread saying his effects flucuate. So why is this?

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## UK Boy

> LOOL Tracy said RU doesnt work?  Ive been on the stuff for 6 months and its done absolute wonders.


 What effects have you seen from RU UK? Just maintenance? Regrowth? Do you buy Your's from Kane?

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## Pocco

Hi hellouser,
First up.  Awesome job on documenting your results.
I am currently using Ru from Kane. Started 4 weeks ago. I was using k&b solution, but found it was hardly dissolving, was left with crystals of ru on receiving areas.  I the  tried rubbing alcohol, but after reading your thread you said isopropyl didn't work for you, so I have just purchased everclear.
My question is, you mentioned you noticed small hairs in April, then in march your hair thickened up dramatically.  We're these hairs you had tiny vellus hairs that all of a sudden had a growth spurt, or were they terminal hairs from the start of their growth?
I have small hairs I can see, but they look like they aren't going to grow anytime soon. I am using 80mg/ml. 
How did you find OC ru.  I got Kane's but am considering OC as I live in Canada and with the heat don't want to risk it going bad on delivery.
Sorry if this is a tad long.
Thanks

----------


## UK_

> What effects have you seen from RU UK? Just maintenance? Regrowth? Do you buy Your's from Kane?


 mpb treatments.

Ive avoided the need to take finasteride/dut.

Waiting for Replicel/Aderans (hopefully Aderans with their new technique that Desmond was talking about).

----------


## UK_

> I think that it's clear from Hellouser's pictures that RU does have a positive effect but why is it that there seems to be flucuations of the positive effects? In Hellouser's pics his hair gets visably better in the first few months but at the start of this year his hair was looking worse again until quiet recently when it thickened up again. Looking at Irish Prides photo log his hair also seemed to flucuate over the course of his log too. Also just looking at that link to HLH there's a guy on the thread saying his effects flucuate. So why is this?


 Might be the length of the hair, overall I think if he were to be put through clinical trial he would have shown  a vast increase in density, especially in the crown.

Thing is he is also taking minoxidil, but I honestly cant see minox doing all this alone.

----------


## WarLord

> Might be the length of the hair, overall I think if he were to be put through clinical trial he would have shown  a vast increase in density, especially in the crown.
> 
> Thing is he is also taking minoxidil, but I honestly cant see minox doing all this alone.


 It is already well known that minoxidil potentiates the effect of antiandrogens. On minox alone, I kept my hairline perfectly for many years, but I have never regrown any appreciable amount of hair. Only after I started to experiment with antiandrogens, I finally experienced the magic of regrowth. 

The shed that this guy experienced after the switch from 2% to 5% minoxidil is nevertheless very unusual. It was brutal, really. 

I switched from 2% to 5% minoxidil in 2008, after 11,5 years on 2% minox, but I haven't noticed anything unusual. The only case, when my hair reacted inappropriately, was in 2011, when I was trying 15% minoxidil in my temples. It virtually burned out my hair follicles. It was too strong for me, apparently. Perhaps he is an excellent responder to minoxidil. Or the combination with RU had a synergistic effect.

----------


## secrethero89

> It is already well known that minoxidil potentiates the effect of antiandrogens. On minox alone, I kept my hairline perfectly for many years, but I have never regrown any appreciable amount of hair. Only after I started to experiment with antiandrogens, I finally experienced the magic of regrowth. 
> 
> The shed that this guy experienced after the switch from 2% to 5% minoxidil is nevertheless very unusual. It was brutal, really. 
> 
> I switched from 2% to 5% minoxidil in 2008, after 11,5 years on 2% minox, but I haven't noticed anything unusual. The only case, when my hair reacted inappropriately, was in 2011, when I was trying 15% minoxidil in my temples. It virtually burned out my hair follicles. It was too strong for me, apparently. Perhaps he is an excellent responder to minoxidil. Or the combination with RU had a synergistic effect.


 Did yo use topical or internal anti-androgens?

----------


## hellouser

I haven't taken my 550mg pills of Saw Palmetto in about a week.... libido is going nuts. I'm getting sexual drives everywhere; shower, in the car, at work, at church.....

This is _nuts._

----------


## Vox

> I haven't taken my 550mg pills of Saw Palmetto in about a week.... libido is going nuts. I'm getting sexual drives everywhere; shower, in the car, at work, at church.....
> 
> This is _nuts._


 Not sure if I follow you. When you say "libido is going nuts" what exactly do you mean? That you have, for example, spontaneous erections? Or just an increased appetite for sex?

Saw Palmetto is included in formulas for improving the male functions, mostly prostate, and this especially for men above 50. If it impairs libido, how can it be effective in improving the sexual function of older men? I don't understand; something does not add up.

----------


## WarLord

> Did yo use topical or internal anti-androgens?


 I currently use finasteride and dutasteride.

----------


## hellouser

> Not sure if I follow you. When you say "libido is going nuts" what exactly do you mean? That you have, for example, spontaneous erections? Or just an increased appetite for sex?


 Both.




> Saw Palmetto is included in formulas for improving the male functions, mostly prostate, and this especially for men above 50. If it impairs libido, how can it be effective in improving the sexual function of older men? I don't understand; something does not add up.


 SP is known to reduce libido in a lot of men. Its not 100% side effect free for everyone.

----------


## MrBlonde

> Wohw, Nice improvemant hellouser..
> 
> 
> here is a post of ziom1990 on HLH of his 10 weeks RU journey.
> 
> 
> http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...VIEWTMP=Linear 
> 
> [IMG]http://s18.postimg.org/q2jjfu1x5/*******2.jpg[/IMG]


 
It looks like density was down at the 4-5week mark.  Is there always this initial shed with RU?

----------


## marikeo

This is an amazing thread!

I can't get over the progression from what looks like almost a total loss back in January, to what I would consider significant coverage now. Unbelievable. 

I don't know how you rode out that shed and stayed sane. Congrats my friend your hair looks very, very nice.

So I am about to pull the trigger. My question is to the rest of the RU users.

If I don't change anything else, but add around 60/mg RU in about 2ml of Minox applied 1/daily, should I expect a significant shed? Minox sheds are well documented and I have experienced these. But are RU sheds also common?

Thank you as always

----------


## Hair87

Hellouser, the hair you have now are by far the best you had since 2011. Very well..Keep on using RU... :Smile:

----------


## jlantern

> It looks like density was down at the 4-5week mark.  Is there always this initial shed with RU?


 That depends on your condition.  Thin or miniaturized hairs are going to shed.  If you dont have a lot of thin hair as it is .. then maybe you wont get a lot of shedding.  If you respond well they will shed faster which is good in the long run.  The hair may have to shed multiple times before it gets thick or terminal.  I am in month 2 and started a second shed already.  With the second shed I can still see my gains still.  The only hair that is shedding is very very thin hair so its not really hurting my over all appearance.

----------


## marikeo

> That depends on your condition.  Thin or miniaturized hairs are going to shed.  If you dont have a lot of thin hair as it is .. then maybe you wont get a lot of shedding.  If you respond well they will shed faster which is good in the long run.  The hair may have to shed multiple times before it gets thick or terminal.  I am in month 2 and started a second shed already.  With the second shed I can still see my gains still.  The only hair that is shedding is very very thin hair so its not really hurting my over all appearance.


 One approach may be to stagger the parts of my scalp to which I apply RU to offset shed cycles should they occur. So perhaps start at my hairline for a couple of weeks before trying on the crown and interior. 

That raises a question. I know the recommended dosage is at least 50mg/daily. But I assume if I am covering a smaller area then I would use a smaller amount? Or is that garbage math based on the science of absorption.

----------


## MrBlonde

Thanks for the replies guys.  I am thinking of pulling the trigger on this due to all the good words.

I presume RU is for life and as soon as you stop you shed what you gained quickly?

Also had anyone in the UK or Ireland had trouble getting RU through customs?  The stopped my fin shipment when I was crazy enough to consider it

----------


## jlantern

> One approach may be to stagger the parts of my scalp to which I apply RU to offset shed cycles should they occur. So perhaps start at my hairline for a couple of weeks before trying on the crown and interior.


 This sounds real stupid to me.  Just use it, stick it out, let it work.  It has to get worst before it can get better.

----------


## SoClose

> Wohw, Nice improvemant hellouser..
> 
> 
> here is a post of ziom1990 on HLH of his 10 weeks RU journey.
> 
> 
> http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...VIEWTMP=Linear 
> 
> [IMG]http://s18.postimg.org/q2jjfu1x5/*******2.jpg[/IMG]


 This is absolutely incredible and truly inspiring as this is the haircut I'm going to be going for.

Anybody know if this guy is on Fin?

----------


## marikeo

> This sounds real stupid to me.  Just use it, stick it out, let it work.  It has to get worst before it can get better.


 Well, I think you mean "overly cautious" and not "stupid", right  :Wink: 

I have been fighting hairloss for a very long time. For the most part I have been able to hold off what was a very aggressive hair loss in my 20s right into my 40s. 

However, last time I made a sudden switch I paid dearly for it. I switched from Dr. Lee's ******* to Rogaine Foam (no choice). When I did, I lost 1/3 of my hair in under a month. I am sure you all can imagine the pain that caused!

Right now, about 90% of the hair on my head is there because it is being treated with topicals. But those hairs are all still in some form of miniaturization. Growing very, very slowly and dormant most of the time.

So, if I move blindly into anything, I risk triggering a shed that could theoretically push out most of the hair I have! No place to hide if that happens.

Hope that helps you understand my caution and my question on the correct amount of RU if I am treating a smaller area of my head. Should I use less than the promoted 50mg?

Thanks everyone. Great forum.

----------


## jlantern

> Well, I think you mean "overly cautious" and not "stupid", right 
> 
> I have been fighting hairloss for a very long time. For the most part I have been able to hold off what was a very aggressive hair loss in my 20s right into my 40s. 
> 
> However, last time I made a sudden switch I paid dearly for it. I switched from Dr. Lee's ******* to Rogaine Foam (no choice). When I did, I lost 1/3 of my hair in under a month. I am sure you all can imagine the pain that caused!
> 
> Right now, about 90% of the hair on my head is there because it is being treated with topicals. But those hairs are all still in some form of miniaturization. Growing very, very slowly and dormant most of the time.
> 
> So, if I move blindly into anything, I risk triggering a shed that could theoretically push out most of the hair I have! No place to hide if that happens.
> ...


 Comparing Starting RU and Switching to Rogain from ******* is comparing apples and oranges.  

You went from a strong treatment to a lesser treatment.  Here you are adding to which will help stop DHT.  If you have a lot of miniaturization it could shed fast I would imagine.  You can start with 50mg I dont know how well it will work with less no one to my knowledge has tested.

----------


## marikeo

> Comparing Starting RU and Switching to Rogain from ******* is comparing apples and oranges.  
> 
> You went from a strong treatment to a lesser treatment.  Here you are adding to which will help stop DHT.  If you have a lot of miniaturization it could shed fast I would imagine.  You can start with 50mg I dont know how well it will work with less no one to my knowledge has tested.


 OK thanks. If all the data is dose dependent on 50mg for a given vehicle then it is what it is. Worse case I can just hit the smaller area with the standard dose.

I don't think moving to a lesser treatment was the issue. If I quit ******* cold turkey I would not have shed that fast. The problem was I sent a new signal to my hair follicles and they reacted accordingly. Then the lesser treatment Foam, I agree, could not promote regrowth. I think I only recovered about 40% of what I shed out.

----------


## jlantern

> OK thanks. If all the data is dose dependent on 50mg for a given vehicle then it is what it is. Worse case I can just hit the smaller area with the standard dose.
> 
> I don't think moving to a lesser treatment was the issue. If I quit ******* cold turkey I would not have shed that fast. The problem was I sent a new signal to my hair follicles and they reacted accordingly. Then the lesser treatment Foam, I agree, could not promote regrowth. I think I only recovered about 40% of what I shed out.


 thats a scary story, but I think there is more to it .. but hell I have no idea what your condition is or what is looks like.   so all i can say is just use it on the hair line see what happens then go all over.  A cascading treatment application doesn't sound like a promising way to go.  Good luck .. keep us updated

----------


## Vox

This was perhaps already addressed and I missed it, but would RU be any good for a slick bald head? Or do you need a good amount of hair still present for that to work, like in hellouser's case?

----------


## bananana

1 question: DOES IT LAST?

What happens when you quit RU? All that is gained will be lost?

----------


## thatkidd

So in summary it looks like we have two well documented cases of RU use now between Hell and the other famous guy...however the treatments are not just RU in either case and treatments change pretty rapidly for both. Makes it a bit hard to say it is the RU, and it is only two cases.

Results looks great though. I think I will try it fairly soon.

----------


## jlantern

> This was perhaps already addressed and I missed it, but would RU be any good for a slick bald head? Or do you need a good amount of hair still present for that to work, like in hellouser's case?


 


> 1 question: DOES IT LAST?
> 
> What happens when you quit RU? All that is gained will be lost?


 


> So in summary it looks like we have two well documented cases of RU use now between Hell and the other famous guy...however the treatments are not just RU in either case and treatments change pretty rapidly for both. Makes it a bit hard to say it is the RU, and it is only two cases.
> 
> Results looks great though. I think I will try it fairly soon.


 Very simple explanation here, for me hellouser lilpauly irish hell el dut etc .. RU has proven to be a powerful "anti-dht" Treatments like Minox are not powerful enough to keep up with DHT in our cases.  In all of our cases we stacked treatments.  1 or 2(or 3) anti DHT elements i.e. fin dut or RU, keto. Growth stimulators minox, AHK, capillogain and also hair heath supports like oils, biotin shampoos.  I  can tell you right now RU is the foundation of hellouser lilpauly and my stack.  without it I would not have the success I am having now.  

At first minox worked well for me .. then I started losing faster.  adding fin .. keto .. figuring out what worked and what didn't.  In the meantime I lost some ground(I just recently started RU, should have started a year ago.)  Its not too bad and I am showing signs of regrowth.  One can assume if I stop RU I will see the same symptoms as before.  Will my hair fall out all at once .. No.. but will DHT catch back up with it yes!  As for stoppping minox, you have to realize it only helps your hair regrow to beat the affects DHT.  That is why when you stop you LOSE fast, DHT has already been at work for a while with those follicles. 

That being said treating hair loss is a multi tier process.. DHT suppression, regrowth stimulant, hair support.  The last I think a lot of people forget about because the things we use to treat hair loss is bad for your hair.. All the alcohol and chemists in it all the time.  

You need to really take your own approach to what you think will work best.   Honestly with some treatments like AHK, RU biotin etc there isnt enough research definitively to really say if it works well and how much.  Additionally, MPB is a big business so you will have a lot of scams.  

That leads us to why we are here.  Start your treatment .. start a log, document it and share what you honestly think works.  I think RU for me is working really well.  On the other hand I think fin only slowed my loss down.  I am using both for synergetic results.  I plan on quiting  fin when I stop seeing gains from both ru and fin.

----------


## Conpecia

I am very close to purchasing and experimenting with RU. So much work to prepare but I just can't risk losing what I have it would crush me. 

How would I go about applying Rogaine foam and RU in the same day? Which should I apply first, and when (morning/evening)?

----------


## clandestine

> I am very close to purchasing and experimenting with RU. So much work to prepare but I just can't risk losing what I have it would crush me. 
> 
> How would I go about applying Rogaine foam and RU in the same day? Which should I apply first, and when (morning/evening)?


 Just apply them a few hours apart, ideally. And be consistent.

----------


## Conpecia

Doesn't matter which goes on first?

----------


## hellouser

> Not sure if I follow you. When you say "libido is going nuts" what exactly do you mean? That you have, for example, spontaneous erections? Or just an increased appetite for sex?
> 
> Saw Palmetto is included in formulas for improving the male functions, mostly prostate, and this especially for men above 50. If it impairs libido, how can it be effective in improving the sexual function of older men? I don't understand; something does not add up.


 Update:

Its getting worse. Seriously, I can't go for 5 minutes without a raging boner. Its been about 7-14 days without saw palmetto. I was getting annoyed with the sexual overdrive and took a 550mg pill of Saw Palmetto yesterday to keep it down... seems like its somewhat working today, I think it kicked in about 12 hours later and im able to sit somewhat still at work. Thank god, lol.

----------


## StayThick

> Doesn't matter which goes on first?


 I was told to apply the Minox FIRST then the RU, due to PG in the RU creating a barrier on the skin. Meaning it would block ample absorbtion of the MINOX if used after...not sure how concrete that is, but I am applying it first..waiting 30 mins, then applying the RU.

----------


## jlantern

> I was told to apply the Minox FIRST then the RU, due to PG in the RU creating a barrier on the skin. Meaning it would block ample absorbtion of the MINOX if used after...not sure how concrete that is, but I am applying it first..waiting 30 mins, then applying the RU.


 I apply RU first then Minox, I am going to switch it the other way around and see if anything changes

----------


## JJacobs152

HU, nice pics and awesome log. Not sure if you answered this, but how much did it cost you initially to get everything setup, and how much after to get a continuous supply of the products...

----------


## hellouser

> HU, nice pics and awesome log. Not sure if you answered this, but how much did it cost you initially to get everything setup, and how much after to get a continuous supply of the products...


 Prices are listed on the first page.

----------


## Pocco

Hey marikio.
Just sharing my experience using RU.
I started 4 weeks ago.  I've been using minox for years, used fin but that didn't help.  I was having a bad shed and decided I'll try Ru.  Since Ru I noticed a huge reduction in shedding, from maybe 70 hairs a day to 20.  And I am now seeing a lot of tiny hairs,all over my area of application, sprouting.  The diameter of the hairs seem to be gettingthicker, and longer. And a lot of hairs that Weren't quite growing on minox have shot up.  I am quite confident right now that Ru will grow back all these miniaturized hairs that we all look at and hope will one day grow, which never do just on minox.  I started on my front hair line, and after seeing improvements used it all over.  I started on 50 mg at the front, but knocked it up to 80mg on my hairline, and 50mg on the rest of my head. My hairline is really thin right now, so I guess I want to make sure it doesn't lose more :/
I advise to try Ru.  Regardless of pessimists, I can see it really working.  I will keep and update on progression and possibly make a thread like hellouser, documenting improvements once they are obviously noticeable

----------


## Dees Dab

Congrats Hellouser, some nice regrowth and good pics. Wondering if you could post pic of your current hair wet to compare with your early wet pics.

Do you know the longest anyone has been on RU, and what are the worst sides?

----------


## clandestine

> Do you know the longest anyone has been on RU, and what are the worst sides?


 Sides, when experienced, at worst mimic those experienced on typical aa's. Incidence of sides experienced, however, appears (anecdotally) less.

----------


## hellouser

> Congrats Hellouser, some nice regrowth and good pics. Wondering if you could post pic of your current hair wet to compare with your early wet pics.
> 
> Do you know the longest anyone has been on RU, and what are the worst sides?


 I'll post pictures eventually, to be honest that initial post took a lot of time as did my RU Guide, so I really don't feel like posting any current pictures at the moment.

I'm still hoping to try BNP but waiting on the results from current individuals that are on it.

----------


## jlantern

> I'll post pictures eventually, to be honest that initial post took a lot of time as did my RU Guide, so I really don't feel like posting any current pictures at the moment.
> 
> I'm still hoping to try BNP but waiting on the results from current individuals that are on it.


 anything of note from CB so far?

----------


## hellouser

> anything of note from CB so far?


 Nope! I'll post later on though  :Smile:

----------


## Vox

> Update:
> 
> Its getting worse. Seriously, I can't go for 5 minutes without a raging boner. Its been about 7-14 days without saw palmetto. I was getting annoyed with the sexual overdrive and took a 550mg pill of Saw Palmetto yesterday to keep it down... seems like its somewhat working today, I think it kicked in about 12 hours later and im able to sit somewhat still at work. Thank god, lol.


 OK, this is strange. Did you have previously also (before starting any treatment with saw palmetto) such a high sex drive?

I never had anything like that naturally occurring when I was young. I can get though some random boners during the day when I feel sleepy  :Big Grin: , but I believe not related to sex drive.

----------


## UK_

Ive been using the 2&#37; solution from mpbtreatments but will probably get the 5% solution next month - in all honesty I think a solid 10% solution of RU would do the job - but im not much of a chemist.

Also, is RU not available to US customers because it has not been FDA approved for AGA yet?

----------


## Cob984

> Ive been using the 2% solution from mpbtreatments but will probably get the 5% solution next month - in all honesty I think a solid 10% solution of RU would do the job - but im not much of a chemist.
> 
> Also, is RU not available to US customers because it has not been FDA approved for AGA yet?


 Hey UK, does the 2% work for you? Also, I just ordered some mpb myself, also where do you store the product and does it stay stable over extended periods?

thanks

----------


## UK_

> Hey UK, does the 2% work for you? Also, I just ordered some mpb myself, also where do you store the product and does it stay stable over extended periods?
> 
> thanks


 Yes they make the solution the day they ship but I'm thinking of learning to do it myself like Hellouser has done, just need to get the time to learn it really.

----------


## marikeo

> Hey marikio.
> Just sharing my experience using RU.
> I started 4 weeks ago.  I've been using minox for years, used fin but that didn't help.  I was having a bad shed and decided I'll try Ru.  Since Ru I noticed a huge reduction in shedding, from maybe 70 hairs a day to 20.  And I am now seeing a lot of tiny hairs,all over my area of application, sprouting. .....


 Pocco, thanks for your reply. It sounds like you and i are in a very similar position. My frontal hairline is very diffuse and full on weaker hairs. That said, I do still get some cosmetic benefit. My hope is that with RU, I can strengthen these hairs, reduce the premature shed, and get them back to being terminal. I know that is a lot hope for.

----------


## Cob984

> Yes they make the solution the day they ship but I'm thinking of learning to do it myself like Hellouser has done, just need to get the time to learn it really.


 Where do you store the RU? in the fridge?

----------


## Boldy

.

----------


## hellouser

> .


 Excellent contribution. Bookmarked for future reading.

----------


## CurlyBird

> Excellent contribution. Bookmarked for future reading.


 I know. Talk about earth shattering.  :EEK!:

----------


## jlantern

> .


 


> Excellent contribution. Bookmarked for future reading.


 


> I know. Talk about earth shattering.


 Any reason this was edited? Mod edit? ?? Can someone fill me in on what this was.. heh

----------


## thatkidd

How's it going Hell? Seems like you haven't posted in about a week. Hope all is still going well!

----------


## growhair

does anyone know shipping days from Kane to the west coast US?

----------


## Californication

Hey, for those of you in the US, have any of you ever needed to fill out a TSCA form? 

Did you just check off the POSITIVE CERTIFICATION?

(''I certify that all chemical substances in this shipment
comply with all applicable rules or orders under TSCA
and that I am not offering a chemical substance for
entry in violation of TSCA")

And for the use,( WHAT IS THE PRODUCTS COMPLETE, EXACT. INTENDED
USE? IF RESEARCH OR LABORATORY USE, WHAT KIND?) did you just say meant to treat hair loss? It's probably best to be honest with these things rather than make up a research reason, but just checking.

----------


## jlantern

> Hey, for those of you in the US, have any of you ever needed to fill out a TSCA form? 
> 
> Did you just check off the POSITIVE CERTIFICATION?
> 
> (''I certify that all chemical substances in this shipment
> comply with all applicable rules or orders under TSCA
> and that I am not offering a chemical substance for
> entry in violation of TSCA")
> 
> ...


 No ive never had to fill one out.  I also did a quick search on a few other forums and doesn't seem like anyone else has/asked about it either.

----------


## thatkidd

Where is hell? been two weeks now I believe...

----------


## hellouser

> Where is hell? been two weeks now I believe...


 I ran out of RU a while back. Been on Minox & CB (Form I). Haven't noticed any loss of density, in fact things seemed to have improved a little. Hair certainly feels thicker.

----------


## Cob984

Hey Hell im sure you know this but there is form 3 available now at Kane, says its the right one and easily dissolvable now, might be worth trying this you think?
buy some kb and this stuff

----------


## UK_

> Hey Hell im sure you know this but there is form 3 available now at Kane, says its the right one and easily dissolvable now, might be worth trying this you think?
> buy some kb and this stuff


 I saw that too, 1g for $200 - have no idea how long that will last lol.

But CB is probably the main one I've been waiting for - it eliminates DHT at the follicle and doesnt mess with serum DHT.

Just need to know how to mix it all now,  I think there was a guide on Hairlosshelp I saw a few weeks back, will post if I find it.

Hell, do you have any idea of how Kane manages to get hold of these chemicals?

----------


## Cob984

Kane says this form dissolves in K+B solution so that should work,

1g will last 100 days with 1&#37; solution

----------


## hellouser

> I saw that too, 1g for $200 - have no idea how long that will last lol.
> 
> But CB is probably the main one I've been waiting for - it eliminates DHT at the follicle and doesnt mess with serum DHT.
> 
> Just need to know how to mix it all now,  I think there was a guide on Hairlosshelp I saw a few weeks back, will post if I find it.
> 
> Hell, do you have any idea of how Kane manages to get hold of these chemicals?


 Cosmos' trials were successful even at 1%, if using 1ml it would last you 100 days (10mg per application).

----------


## Dan26

> Cosmos' trials were successful even at 1%, if using 1ml it would last you 100 days (10mg per application).


 
This is true, but it was 1% with *iontophoresis*  So 1% with a topical vehicle may not be delivering the same amount of CB. Although, since tehre wasn't a huge difference between 1% and 5% with ionto, for all we know 0.5% could have worked just as well too, and 1% in a topical will be fine.

----------


## Cob984

Think i am ordering this CB form 3 soon, use in everclear/pg vehicle,
Also my 2&#37; mpb Ru is on its way + neogenic, hopefully these 3 work for my hair w/o sides

----------


## EDB

Would 1 ml be enough for full coverage of the scalp though? I do 1.25 ml of ru and that covers my hairline and the center of my crown

----------


## clandestine

> Think i am ordering this CB form 3 soon, use in everclear/pg vehicle,
> Also my 2% mpb Ru is on its way + neogenic, hopefully these 3 work for my hair w/o sides


 Don't bother with Neogenic; entirely useless product.

----------


## clandestine

> Would 1 ml be enough for full coverage of the scalp though? I do 1.25 ml of ru and that covers my hairline and the center of my crown


 If you apply properly 1ml can cover entire NW7 area.

----------


## UK_

> Cosmos' trials were successful even at 1&#37;, if using 1ml it would last you 100 days (10mg per application).


 10mg mixed with 1ml kb solution for each application?

is that what you do Hellouser?

----------


## UK_

I think I will do the same, drop RU and buy 2 grams of CB which should last me 5 - 6 months.

Hopefully this way I can avoid taking finasteride.

Hellouser, do you think the KB solution would work just as well as the everclear/PG vehicle for CB?

----------


## Cob984

Guys i got hold of pg, but i cant find everclear alcohol anywhere, is there a substitute?

----------


## hellouser

> 10mg mixed with 1ml kb solution for each application?
> 
> is that what you do Hellouser?


 No, I've never used KB and don't plan on it either. I use only ethanol/PG. I'm waiting to receive Oleyl but its been a while.

----------


## Cob984

Can i use only PG? i cant find everclear? can i just use a strong vodka as a replacement?

----------


## hellouser

> Can i use only PG? i cant find everclear? can i just use a strong vodka as a replacement?


 No to either. You'll need ethanol, dmi/dmso or oleyl. PG only slows down the drying time of the alcohols, it does not pass through skin. Vodka won't pass through skin either and the strongest type of vodka is probably a Polish rectified spirit, around 95/96% alcohol. It is a grain alcohol like Everclear and might work, but dont take my word for it, i'm only guessing. IF you cant find everclear I doubt you'll be able to find a polish rectified spirit.

----------


## Cob984

I guess im just going to have to order KB then? where did you get your everclear from,
what is oleyl and where is that available?

----------


## yan

> Can i use only PG? i cant find everclear? can i just use a strong vodka as a replacement?


 Just use KB solution...

----------


## hellouser

> No to either. You'll need ethanol, dmi/dmso or oleyl. PG only slows down the drying time of the alcohols, it does not pass through skin. Vodka won't pass through skin either and the strongest type of vodka is probably a Polish rectified spirit, around 95/96% alcohol. It is a grain alcohol like Everclear and might work, but dont take my word for it, i'm only guessing. IF you cant find everclear I doubt you'll be able to find a polish rectified spirit.


 Just asked on another hair loss forum if a rectified spirit will work instead of Everclear and the answer is 'yes, definitely'

Seeing how its slightly stronger than everclear at 96% (192 Proof) it could work a bit better.

----------


## hellouser

> I guess im just going to have to order KB then? where did you get your everclear from,
> what is oleyl and where is that available?


 Just get KB.

Oleyl is whats often used in cosmetics. I ordered it in a group buy. You can't buy this stuff over the counter anywhere.

----------


## Cob984

i cant find any of this stuff, i mean where do i look for this? i went to my local alcohol shop and they were like 45&#37; is the max strength we have 

KB is bloody expensive,

----------


## hellouser

> KB is bloody expensive,


 If you value your hair, you'll pay up.

----------


## Cob984

Question, im torn between ordering RU from Kane or the CB form 3,
I already have some mpb treatments RU on its way but given their woeful shipping its almost been a month without any signs of the product, im sick of waiting and want to order something, would you gamble on the CB in this case?

----------


## hellouser

> Question, im torn between ordering RU from Kane or the CB form 3,
> I already have some mpb treatments RU on its way but given their woeful shipping its almost been a month without any signs of the product, im sick of waiting and want to order something, would you gamble on the CB in this case?


 I've got CB and will be buying RU as well to make a final regimen of RU + CB + Minox all once a day, every day.

I know its almost overkill but I don't want to take any chances with hair and try to retain as much as possible until either Aderans or Histogen comes out. Having said that, i'm still seriously contemplating a procedure with Gho to fix the hairline/temples and continue with my regimen. My density right now is more or less what it used to be 3-4 years ago which is thick enough and nowhere near thin enough for anyone to say im balding, only my receding hairline is now a problem.

----------


## Cob984

So you believe the CB is doing something good? cause i recall you werent so sure earlier, i plan to order the new form 3 from kane and make it with KB

----------


## Phatalis

> I've got CB and will be buying RU as well to make a final regimen of RU + CB + Minox all once a day, every day.
> 
> I know its almost overkill but I don't want to take any chances with hair and try to retain as much as possible until either Aderans or Histogen comes out. Having said that, i'm still seriously contemplating a procedure with Gho to fix the hairline/temples and continue with my regimen. My density right now is more or less what it used to be 3-4 years ago which is thick enough and nowhere near thin enough for anyone to say im balding, only my receding hairline is now a problem.


 Dude im the same and I AM gettnig a procedure with Gho. I'm just... how do you not fear any bad effects from these things when they are relatively untested??? I want to retain more in the years after my hst until something good comes out but not sure where to go besides minox. im not ****ing with fin

----------


## StayThick

> No, I've never used KB and don't plan on it either. I use only ethanol/PG. I'm waiting to receive Oleyl but its been a while.


 What's your reasoning for not using KB? More expensive?

It's also less hassle to make your batches of RU considering it's used by itself vs what you're currently doing with ethanol/PG... curious to your reasoning here.

----------


## hellouser

> What's your reasoning for not using KB? More expensive?
> 
> It's also less hassle to make your batches of RU considering it's used by itself vs what you're currently doing with ethanol/PG... curious to your reasoning here.


 Price isn't an issue. If I'm contemplating a procedure with Gho, I can easily fork out the dough for KB.

Reason is because I've never felt like ordering it on MPBTreatments and prefer the control of the ratio of Ethanol/PG when doing it on my own.

----------


## StayThick

> Price isn't an issue. If I'm contemplating a procedure with Gho, I can easily fork out the dough for KB.
> 
> Reason is because I've never felt like ordering it on MPBTreatments and prefer the control of the ratio of Ethanol/PG when doing it on my own.


 Understood, but you purchase RU from Kane.. That's where I bought my K+B Solution so not sure why MBP treatments would be your place of purhase.

Either way, I understand your last comment on the ratio. Although I'd argue KB based on the research I've done online seems to be a better vehicle for RU.

----------


## hellouser

> Understood, but you purchase RU from Kane.. That's where I bought my K+B Solution so not sure why MBP treatments would be your place of purhase.
> 
> Either way, I understand your last comment on the ratio. Although I'd argue KB based on the research I've done online seems to be a better vehicle for RU.


 No, I've purchased RU twice from Ontario Chemicals (5g and 10grams) and another 10grams from a member on another forum that sold it to me from a group buy.

I'm now looking at buying from Kane.

----------


## Cob984

hey hellouser bro please keep us updated on the CB, i realize you are currently only on CB without RU so u could really let us know if its worth it

----------


## goldbondmafia

Hey hellouser, after reading your other thread, why did you add CB in addition to RU? 
But more importantly, where did you buy everclear alcohol? I noticed on the picture you showed in the Complete RU Usage Guide you have a bag with the Canadian government logo. I thought everclear wasn't sold here?

----------


## whitegold

Hellouser, thank you for posting the "complete RU58841 usage guide", it has been very helpful and made me order some RU to try.

What is the difference between using this method versus using Kane's K+B solution?

What is the process of using the K+B solution? I am assuming I would I still need the scales, droppers, and most of the same utensils needed in the do it yourself method? I searched the forum with no luck..

----------


## StayThick

> Hellouser, thank you for posting the "complete RU58841 usage guide", it has been very helpful and made me order some RU to try.
> 
> What is the difference between using this method versus using Kane's K+B solution?
> 
> What is the process of using the K+B solution? I am assuming I would I still need the scales, droppers, and most of the same utensils needed in the do it yourself method? I searched the forum with no luck..


 I use the K&B Solution personally. From what I gather it helps with absorption and creates a thin film on the scalp to prevent transfer of RU to a female, etc for sides reasons. Apparently it's a better vehicle compared to PG and Alcohol based on absorption but I do not know how concrete that is.

The process Hellouser outlined would be the same with the KB Solution. The only difference is now you have the benefit of mixing the RU with one vehicle vs measuring and applying of two. Follow the same steps, I measure a weeks worth of RU, dispose off in a small plastic bottle, then disperse 7ml of KB Solution with my eye dropper in the bottle. Shake and I have my weeks worth. That easy.

----------


## thatkidd

> I use the K&B Solution personally. From what I gather it helps with absorption and creates a thin film on the scalp to prevent transfer of RU to a female, etc for sides reasons. Apparently it's a better vehicle compared to PG and Alcohol based on absorption but I do not know how concrete that is.
> 
> The process Hellouser outlined would be the same with the KB Solution. The only difference is now you have the benefit of mixing the RU with one vehicle vs measuring and applying of two. Follow the same steps, I measure a weeks worth of RU, dispose off in a small plastic bottle, then disperse 7ml of KB Solution with my eye dropper in the bottle. Shake and I have my weeks worth. That easy.


 You really make that sound easy! Fin has started to fail me, really excited to try some RU and possibly CB in the future.

----------


## Kiwi

A couple of years ago I tried minox 5% foam and got crazy shedding.

Hell - do you think RU + CB without minox would give me results without a shed? Also what are the direct links to the RU and CB products you buy?

Thanks in advance mate  :Smile:

----------


## hellouser

> A couple of years ago I tried minox 5% foam and got crazy shedding.
> 
> Hell - do you think RU + CB without minox would give me results without a shed? Also what are the direct links to the RU and CB products you buy?
> 
> Thanks in advance mate


 Not sure, but something tells me 'no' because I don't see a whole lot of growth from Finasteride on its own. I would imagine it'd be the same for RU and CB on their own. Should work for halting hairloss. I think Minox should be in EVERY regimen for regrowth.

----------


## Kiwi

> Not sure, but something tells me 'no' because I don't see a whole lot of growth from Finasteride on its own. I would imagine it'd be the same for RU and CB on their own. Should work for halting hairloss. I think Minox should be in EVERY regimen for regrowth.


 What about starting on RU + CB and then adding minox for growth. 

Perhaps its possible that RU and CB would have stabilised things which might mitigate the dreaded minox shed?

----------


## whitegold

> What about starting on RU + CB and then adding minox for growth. 
> 
> Perhaps its possible that RU and CB would have stabilised things which might mitigate the dreaded minox shed?


 I am waiting on my RU to arrive so I can start it after discontinuing Fin. I too have been leery of trying Minox because I am afraid of the initial shed. 

Hellouser, are you mixing your CB with your RU, or how are you using it?

----------


## hellouser

> I am waiting on my RU to arrive so I can start it after discontinuing Fin. I too have been leery of trying Minox because I am afraid of the initial shed. 
> 
> Hellouser, are you mixing your CB with your RU, or how are you using it?


 I don't mix them, I don't know how you came to this conclusion, I've never stated that anywhere on this forum.

Thanks to Winston theres no way of editing my initial post in this thread so I know things will get ugly with updates, otherwise I'd just keep adding more info with newer timelines in the first post.

Anyway, I was running out of RU a couple months ago, around April actually. I think I have about 5-10 days worth left but I haven't used any of my RU anyway. I did receive in April my CB but in the wrong form (it doesnt completely dissolve). When I had both, I was applying like this:

- Wake up in the morning, wash hair with either Nizoral or Saw Palmetto/L-Arginine shampoo. Dry hair and style, go to work.
- Finish work around 6pm. I first apply RU at around this time (1ml w/ 100mg)
- Wash hair around 11:30pm and between this time and 12:00am I would apply CB (1ml w/ 10mg)
- At around 12:30am I then apply Minoxidil (1-1.5ml @ 5%, thus 50-75mg)
- Sleep.

But since around January I've only been on CB and haven't noticed much hair loss. Everything is pretty much fine.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> I don't mix them, I don't know how you came to this conclusion, I've never stated that anywhere on this forum.
> 
> Thanks to Winston theres no way of editing my initial post in this thread so I know things will get ugly with updates, otherwise I'd just keep adding more info with newer timelines in the first post.
> 
> Anyway, I was running out of RU a couple months ago, around April actually. I think I have about 5-10 days worth left but I haven't used any of my RU anyway. I did receive in April my CB but in the wrong form (it doesnt completely dissolve). When I had both, I was applying like this:
> 
> - Wake up in the morning, wash hair with either Nizoral or Saw Palmetto/L-Arginine shampoo. Dry hair and style, go to work.
> - Finish work around 6pm. I first apply RU at around this time (1ml w/ 100mg)
> - Wash hair around 11:30pm and between this time and 12:00am I would apply CB (1ml w/ 10mg)
> ...


 what do you mean you've only been on CB since january? don't you mean RU?

----------


## hellouser

> what do you mean you've only been on CB since january? don't you mean RU?


 Whoops, I meant on CB since April/May, not January. I was on 100mg of RU from February-April

----------


## StayThick

> Whoops, I meant on CB since April/May, not January. I was on 100mg of RU from February-April


 Still don't know why you stopped RU. Doesn't make much sense if you had such success with it to begin with.

Sides and low libido the main reason why??

----------


## marikeo

> Whoops, I meant on CB since April/May, not January. I was on 100mg of RU from February-April


 Looking at your log, its not clear to me that RU made any difference. It appears you switched to a more potent Minox before you started RU and god  bad shed. Would make sense that if that was the case your gains could just be the regrowth of those lost hairs. 

Assuming you must be thinking this as well or why else would you stop RU after seeing your hair thickness come back so dramatically. I would be thrilled to regain a thickness like that and the last thing I would do is stop after such a short stint.

----------


## hwildcat

Is PG necessary to mix with RU?

I have just been mixing with everclear so far and was under the impression that PG was optional

But if it limits the effectiveness without PG then I will add it in

----------


## Californication

So I finally got my hands on some RU, couldn't get the liquid though. I don't have any everclear alcohol (isn't sold where I live) so do you think mixing the appropriate dosage (gonna start around 40-50 mg) with regular Rogaine liquid minox is ok?

I know some people have done this, but wanted to make sure.

----------


## hwildcat

> So I finally got my hands on some RU, couldn't get the liquid though. I don't have any everclear alcohol (isn't sold where I live) so do you think mixing the appropriate dosage (gonna start around 40-50 mg) with regular Rogaine liquid minox is ok?
> 
> I know some people have done this, but wanted to make sure.


 I have heard people say this works
supposedly some have gotten results with RU while mixing it with minox

I started doing that but switched to everclear
For some reason the RU/minox combination kept sticking to my hair and hardening like glue or some sort of super dense hair gel

It got to the point where I could not really comb my hair without pulling a bunch of hairs out in the process

----------


## secrethero89

Hello hellhouser,

Can you make a comparison between RU and CBform3?

----------


## MrBlonde

> Wohw, Nice improvemant hellouser..
> 
> 
> here is a post of ziom1990 on HLH of his 10 weeks RU journey.
> 
> 
> http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...VIEWTMP=Linear 
> 
> [IMG]http://s18.postimg.org/q2jjfu1x5/*******2.jpg[/IMG]


 Was this guy using any growth factors such as minox along side RU?

I am currently about the 7th week mark and not seeing these results, I loke more like the 2nd picture.  I realise it may take longer for some but also wonder should I add a growth factor

----------


## Boldy

> Was this guy using any growth factors such as minox along side RU?
> 
> I am currently about the 7th week mark and not seeing these results, I loke more like the 2nd picture.  I realise it may take longer for some but also wonder should I add a growth factor


 His quote on HLH:




> regimen: 
> RU 50mg 
> min sulfate 70mg 
> 
> Inflammation issue: 
> -only tretinoin (from wk.0 to wk.4) give me lot on inflammation due to increasin tgf-beta 
> -so i added hydrocortisone (from wk.4 to wk.7), great results with inflammation but my body is very week after using betamethasone 
> -cant handle any amount of corticosteroids so switched to tretinoin+EMU+essential oils thats why there is some redness on scalp on wk.10 but i think inflammation is under control now. Anyway corticosteroids works wonder on inflammation it is hard to replace ;/ 
> -thinking also about adding ~10-20% saw palmetto topically (it give some benefits 2-3 years ago). 
> ...

----------


## MrBlonde

Min sulfate = minox ?

Never heard to it referred to this way before

----------


## marikeo

> Was this guy using any growth factors such as minox along side RU?
> 
> I am currently about the 7th week mark and not seeing these results, I loke more like the 2nd picture.  I realise it may take longer for some but also wonder should I add a growth factor


 Does that mean you have lost ground as this person did in the second picture? Anyone understand what the round dark circles are on his head and why they move around in each picture?

----------


## Julian P

> Anyone understand what the round dark circles are on his head and why they move around in each picture?


 I'm not sure, but I guess it's inflammation. I experienced something similar when I started out with a topical containing some anti-androgens.

----------


## MrBlonde

> Does that mean you have lost ground as this person did in the second picture? Anyone understand what the round dark circles are on his head and why they move around in each picture?


 So far I would say yes.  Although there is usually an initial shed with any product that works.  My fear is the Ru is getting caught in my hair and not getting to the problem areas, as my hair is longish.

I use k&b which is supposed to improve efficacy.  It creates a film after applying so the RU cant be spread by people touching your hair.  I don't know how long that film lasts and I don't wash in between each application so the film may be blocking the RU on the next application.

I would hope this film lasts no more the 12 hrs but it could be hardening on the scalp?  I am not seeing and flaky residue so it doesn't  seem like it is but I can't honestly say either way.

----------


## Boldy

> Min sulfate = minox ?
> 
> Never heard to it referred to this way before


 = Minoxidil Sulphate, stronger than normal minox, you can buy it in powder form, from ebay , and china etc, its very cheap..

----------


## MrBlonde

> = Minoxidil Sulphate, stronger than normal minox, you can buy it in powder form, from ebay , and china etc, its very cheap..


 
What vehicle is best suited to this?  Also is there a reliable source such as Kane to avoid bad batches?

----------


## Hairismylife

> Not sure, but something tells me 'no' because I don't see a whole lot of growth from Finasteride on its own. I would imagine it'd be the same for RU and CB on their own. Should work for halting hairloss. I think Minox should be in EVERY regimen for regrowth.


 Hellouser, can u teach me how to prepare CB and where did you get it? Kane?

----------


## TO YOUNG TO RETIRE

any news on cb Hell? :Smile: 


> Whoops, I meant on CB since April/May, not January. I was on 100mg of RU from February-April

----------


## zephyrprime

> Is PG necessary to mix with RU?
> 
> I have just been mixing with everclear so far and was under the impression that PG was optional
> 
> But if it limits the effectiveness without PG then I will add it in


 Not absolutely necessary but it increased effectiveness because it reduces running and prevents the alcohol from evaporating faster.  Alcohol just evaporates too fast without it.  That's the reason why topical medications aren't as effective as ingested ones.

----------


## yeahyeahyeah

What happened to TracyC?

----------


## Jcm800

> What happened to TracyC?


 Prob got tired of the abuse?

----------


## clandestine

> Prob got tired of the abuse?


 Truth.

All she would do is tout fin and minox, though. Like a broken record, really.
We're in search of better solutions.

----------


## Californication

Hey, third day of RU application at 25 mg, does anyone else get kind of strong headaches pretty much immediately upon application? When I used minox liquid with ppg, I did get fairly severe flaking so maybe I'm allergic to the propylene glycol (although no flaking now with RU). Could it be the ethanol, the ppg, or the RU?

----------


## secrethero89

> Hey, third day of RU application at 25 mg, does anyone else get kind of strong headaches pretty much immediately upon application? When I used minox liquid with ppg, I did get fairly severe flaking so maybe I'm allergic to the propylene glycol (although no flaking now with RU). Could it be the ethanol, the ppg, or the RU?


 it is ppg.use foam minox, mix ru with kb and add T/Gel

----------


## marikeo

> it is ppg.use foam minox, mix ru with kb and add T/Gel


 Agreed. PPG will cause those exact reactions. I am using RU with Minox but luckily am not having that issue.

----------


## samdee

> She's part of the reason why I made the log public. I got tired of her FDA dickriding. This will hopefully shut her up.
> 
> But I've said it before, that if a drug was released for women that compromised the use of her snatch, she'd be singing a different tune. Oh who am I kidding, if a drug was released for women, it'd be a cure. Nobody cares about mens health. Sigh.


 FDA dick riding ... LOL

----------


## Hairismylife

Hellouser what's your regime right now?

----------


## hellouser

> Hellouser what's your regime right now?


 Only Minoxidil (Kirkland's 5%). Once a day. I've been shedding a lot in the last few weeks though, I'm expecting some serious regrowth in the coming months. Density has dropped a little but things dont look terrible. Only visible hair loss is my hair line and temples.

I'll be getting back on RU and CB soon along with a 1.5mm dermaroller.

On top of that, I'm thinking of buying that finasteride based shampoo and getting some hair paste to style my hair which includes saw palmetto. I might get back on saw palmetto pills as well, but may actually try taking a few pills of finasteride once I start the dermarolling trial, just to kick start things.

I'm still using Nizoral thougy, roughly twice a week.

----------


## Hairismylife

Actually why you temporarily quit RU & CB?

----------


## hellouser

> Actually why you temporarily quit RU & CB?


 Ran out of RU and CB was the wrong form (wouldnt dissolve, hence wouldnt penetrate skin, hence ineffective).

I'll get back on my full regimen soon.

I'm happy to say though that my libido has come back to normal levels (morning wood is so strong some times it hurts).

----------


## Hairismylife

So RU & CB is just like Fin, need to use continously to keep the hair even regrowth

----------


## hellouser

> So RU & CB is just like Fin, need to use continously to keep the hair even regrowth


 More or less, yes. RU has significantly fewer side effects and CB is supposed to have ZERO side effects as well as being far more effective.

Here's Cosmo's results on CB:

----------


## Hairismylife

I asked Kane and they suggested KB to be the vehicle.  But you know, the penetrating power hasn't been proved to be sufficient.  This discourage me to purchase CB, I believe its effect though.

----------


## hellouser

> I asked Kane and they suggested KB to be the vehicle.  But you know, the penetrating power hasn't been proved to be sufficient.  This discourage me to purchase CB, I believe its effect though.


 Dermarolling should help with penetration.  :Smile:

----------


## hellouser

Update:

These pics we're taken July 1st, 2013. The progress has is ONLY from Minoxidil from April until this day, RU has been discontinued since then. Am planning to go balls out very soon by adding pure form III CB from Kane along with RU, also will be using a dermaroller and with this may add BNP-32 for actual penetration. Skin doesn't allow anything to pass through with a molecular weight of more than 500 dalton, BNP-32 is 3,400, nearly 7 times more. Hopefully the creation of holes 1.5mm deep will allow BNP to actually do something.





I've been shedding a LOT since these photos we're taken. My scalp wasn't very visible when hair was styled when these pics were taken, but now it has gone back to a stage more similar to 2011-07-04, however my crown is  denser than that.

----------


## Hairismylife

Temple recession since RU discontinued.  But crown area still looks good, much better than mine :Frown:

----------


## simba

Hey hellhouser, could you make a usage guide for CB similar to the one you did for ru?

----------


## hellouser

> Hey hellhouser, could you make a usage guide for CB similar to the one you did for ru?


 Its basically the same as RU. Just use either DMI/DMSO or Oleyl/PG as the vehicle (use 10% oleyl and 90% PG). For both you shouldn't use more than 20% concentration of CB, results were more or less identicle between 1% and 5%, so per 1ml of application, you only need 10mg. 1g of CB from Kane costs $200, so that will last you 100 days of single daily applications, just a little over 3 months. If CB works as well or better than Finasteride, that is absolutely fantastic given the fact that there are no side effects.

----------


## hellouser

> Temple recession since RU discontinued.  But crown area still looks good, much better than mine


 Here's an old photo of me in *2006* when my hair loss ramped up, you can clearly see my McDonald's logo hairline. Since then, it hasn't changed much, and you can even see some loss in density as well as scalp is somewhat visible.



This is the best and earliest photo I can find of myself when my hair loss got bad. I never made anything of it back then, I simple didn't notice my hairline going bad. My hair in 2005 was significantly better than it is today, especially in terms of density (I could get a nice faux hawk going all around and have it stick straight up with ease, where as now it just falls flat).

If CB and dermarolling + minoxidil & inducing pge2/fgf9 can add density, I'll be THRILLED. If I can achieve that it only means less surgical intervention in the future and basically only hairline work.. and if Dr. Wesley does get regeneration, then all the better.

----------


## simba

> Its basically the same as RU. Just use either DMI/DMSO or Oleyl/PG as the vehicle (use 10% oleyl and 90% PG). For both you shouldn't use more than 20% concentration of CB, results were more or less identicle between 1% and 5%, so per 1ml of application, you only need 10mg. 1g of CB from Kane costs $200, so that will last you 100 days of single daily applications, just a little over 3 months. If CB works as well or better than Finasteride, that is absolutely fantastic given the fact that there are no side effects.


 Are you sure those vehicles will work or will they only work with the use of a dermaroller? Desmond84 said they used an ionopheresis device to apply the cb in the study they did so I'm guessing you're just hoping for the best.

Also, I thought this was a once/twice weekly application, wouldn't 100 applications last a year(or two), that's ridiculously cheap if true.

----------


## hellouser

> Are you sure those vehicles will work or will they only work with the use of a dermaroller? Desmond84 said they used an ionopheresis device to apply the cb in the study they did so I'm guessing you're just hoping for the best.
> 
> Also, I thought this was a once/twice weekly application, wouldn't 100 applications last a year(or two), that's ridiculously cheap if true.


 I believe the iontopheresis application by cosmo is true, and used 1-2 times weekly.

In terms of the vehicle, nobody knows which one works best. You should dermaroll REGARDLESS, theres really no excuse for not using it with topicals given the positive results as well as the obviousness of absorption.

And yes, if 1gram were to be used with iontopheresis then yes it would last a VERY long time. But I have my doubts on its shelf life.

----------


## yan

I read in one of the older cosmo presentations, that they used the iontopheresis device in order to save money and time in the small proof of concept study. 
They used it twice a week. That study is now 3 years old.

Last year, they tested various vehicles and apparently found the right one. But the thing is, they dont say which vehicle it is exactly. There is only an old presentation from 2010 I think, where they listed the various vehicles which come into question.


Cosmo Website: 

In 2012, a skin permeation test was performed on two different CB-03-01 formulations:
– CB-03-01 5&#37; anhydrous solution
– CB-03-01 5% aqueous solution.

On the basis of skin permeation test results and of stability test results, CB-03-01 5% anhydrous solution was selected as the candidate drug product for the treatment of alopecia.

----------


## hellouser

> I read in one of the older cosmo presentations, that they used the iontopheresis device to save money and time in the small proof of concept study. 
> They used it twice a week. That study is now 3 years old.


 I want to know what device they used for iontopheresis for the SCALP! According to this: http://www.mattioliengineering.com/v...att=18&prod=69

Using iontopheresis allows you to pass a substance much higher than 500 dalton, but says it needs to be below 10,000. If thats the case, that would mean we'd actually have a legitimate method of applying BNP-32, as its molecular weight is 3,400, much higher than the 500 mark that skin allows to pass through.

If anyone knows of a iontopheresis device usable on the scalp, PLEASE let me know!




> Last year, they tested various vehicles and apparently found the right one.
> 
> 
> Cosmo Website: 
> 
> In 2012, a skin permeation test was performed on two different CB-03-01 formulations:
> – CB-03-01 5&#37; anhydrous solution
> – CB-03-01 5% aqueous solution.
> 
> On the basis of skin permeation test results and of stability test results, CB-03-01 5% *anhydrous solution was selected as the candidate drug product for the treatment of alopecia.*


 Do you have a source for this?

We may need to find out how to make/acquire this solution. Although its still possible for a acqueous solution with dermarolling to be effective.

----------


## yan

> Do you have a source for this?
> 
> We may need to find out how to make/acquire this solution. Although its still possible for a acqueous solution with dermarolling to be effective.


 Sure. 

http://www.cosmopharma.com/~/media/F...25JAN13_v5.pdf

Page 58

----------


## hellouser

> Sure. 
> 
> http://www.cosmopharma.com/~/media/F...25JAN13_v5.pdf
> 
> Page 58


 Awesome! Thank you!

----------


## thatkidd

> More or less, yes. RU has significantly fewer side effects and CB is supposed to have ZERO side effects as well as being far more effective.
> 
> Here's Cosmo's results on CB:


 
Hell, I'm getting some sides from 20mg of RU a day (Gyno, still taking 1mg finasteride daily though, however it NEVER gave me sides alone).

Is it time to give CB a try instead? I've never seen numbers behind RUs results...these numbers for CB look really good.

And what is the appropriate vehicle? Thanks!

----------


## hellouser

> Hell, I'm getting some sides from 20mg of RU a day (Gyno, still taking 1mg finasteride daily though, however it NEVER gave me sides alone).
> 
> Is it time to give CB a try instead? I've never seen numbers behind RUs results...these numbers for CB look really good.
> 
> And what is the appropriate vehicle? Thanks!


 Nobody knows what the proper vehicle for CB is. Cosmos states it will be an anhydrous vehicle though. In the trials it stated 'ol/pg' which you could guess means oleyl/pg.

If you dont have access to oleyl, Everclear/PG should work, but if I were you, I'd dermaroll just to make sure absorption is that much better.

Make sure you don't apply CB right after dermarolling (assuming youre going the wounding route) because afaik, CB goes benign once it hits the blood stream. Apply CB the next day.

I never really felt any sides from RU, though I'm pretty sure my libido did drop.

----------


## thatkidd

> Nobody knows what the proper vehicle for CB is. Cosmos states it will be an anhydrous vehicle though. In the trials it stated 'ol/pg' which you could guess means oleyl/pg.
> 
> If you dont have access to oleyl, Everclear/PG should work, but if I were you, I'd dermaroll just to make sure absorption is that much better.
> 
> Make sure you don't apply CB right after dermarolling (assuming youre going the wounding route) because afaik, CB goes benign once it hits the blood stream. Apply CB the next day.
> 
> I never really felt any sides from RU, though I'm pretty sure my libido did drop.


 Yeah man, I got some gyno. I tried Avodart in the past and got gyno too. Propecia never gave me any gyno or libido sides.

So now I have some pretty serious gyno...which really sucks.

What dermaroller do you use? I do want to buy one. I read through the community trial but didn't see any instructions really. How do you do it?

Thanks for all of your help man. I'm dropping RU down to 10mg today to help the sides dissipate.

----------


## hellouser

> Yeah man, I got some gyno. I tried Avodart in the past and got gyno too. Propecia never gave me any gyno or libido sides.
> 
> So now I have some pretty serious gyno...which really sucks.
> 
> What dermaroller do you use? I do want to buy one. I read through the community trial but didn't see any instructions really. How do you do it?
> 
> Thanks for all of your help man. I'm dropping RU down to 10mg today to help the sides dissipate.


 I use a gold plated titanium dermaroller i bought off amazon. its got 192 needles and theyre 1.5mm long. i posted a couple videos on how to use it, check out the video in the thread from 'hairlossfromsteroids'

----------


## thatkidd

I dont see this thread anywhere...link?

----------


## hellouser

> I dont see this thread anywhere...link?


 http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=13420

Read from start to finish, there is a LOT of great info on dermarolling, including a couple articles i posted from Dr. Cotsarelis that supports new hair follicle growth from wounding + minoxidil as well as another article suggesting that wounding induces WNT proteins, the same stuff Histogen is using in their treatment.

----------


## UK_

Dermarolling is incredibly effective, you're utilising your bodies own WNT pathway to promote healing in diffused areas, it's bound to have an impact in terms of reducing/repairing the damage done to surrounding follicles due to DHT.  The only thing is, humans lack FGF9 to induce new hair follicle growth after an area is wounded, we simply lost the ability during our course of evolution.

I still maintain the same hope in Histogen that I had 3 years ago.  I know they can do it, but seriously, **** all you people who didnt want to help with raising funds for Histogen, none of you deserve to have access to the next best treatment.

We should have a fund for every major company working on a treatment for hair loss, most of the money is spent on equipment and enrolling trial patients so dont give me that garbage about how it would be used to pay salaries, in 2009 Gail was running Histogen off her credit cards b/c of the lawsuit from Skinmedica.  Sorry for going off topic.

----------


## thatkidd

> Dermarolling is incredibly effective, you're utilising your bodies own WNT pathway to promote healing in diffused areas, it's bound to have an impact in terms of reducing/repairing the damage done to surrounding follicles due to DHT.  The only thing is, humans lack FGF9 to induce new hair follicle growth after an area is wounded, we simply lost the ability during our course of evolution.


 So you're saying it is good for diffuse areas because the follicles are still present, but isn't good for slick bald areas because we can't induce new hair follicle growth after the wounding? Upon first read I thought you were completely contradicting yourself, but I think you're saying it helps a lot but isn't the cure-all.

----------


## hellouser

> So you're saying it is good for diffuse areas because the follicles are still present, but isn't good for slick bald areas because we can't induce new hair follicle growth after the wounding? Upon first read I thought you were completely contradicting yourself, but I think you're saying it helps a lot but isn't the cure-all.


 AFAIK, the follicles are always present but dormant. You could assume that dorman follicles could be turned into vellus or terminal, who knows.

Time will tell though, perhaps results depend on consistency? PrettyFly83 was able to grow hair follicles on slick bald areas... maybe the creation of follicles does exist but only for as long as your dermarolling?

----------


## thatkidd

> AFAIK, the follicles are always present but dormant. You could assume that dorman follicles could be turned into vellus or terminal, who knows.
> 
> Time will tell though, perhaps results depend on consistency? PrettyFly83 was able to grow hair follicles on slick bald areas... maybe the creation of follicles does exist but only for as long as your dermarolling?


 Well I can roll some needles on my head once a week if it even helps 1%! ha

So bottom line at this point is we roll once a week, use a PGD2 inhibitor to block PGD2, and use PGE2 to increase FGF9...seems pretty solid to me if that is truly what the Follica study shows works. I see the PGE2 on Kane's website, not sure what the PGD2 inhibitor is though. And what type of vehicle would we use for these/how often?

I'm on RU 10mg right now, but might have to get off from some sides. Don't know if I want to try CB or PGD2+PGE2, both will occur with rolling.

I'm already taking monthly pictures as I just started RU a month ago.

----------


## hellouser

> Well I can roll some needles on my head once a week if it even helps 1%! ha
> 
> So bottom line at this point is we roll once a week, use a PGD2 inhibitor to block PGD2, and use PGE2 to increase FGF9...seems pretty solid to me if that is truly what the Follica study shows works. I see the PGE2 on Kane's website, not sure what the PGD2 inhibitor is though. And what type of vehicle would we use for these/how often?
> 
> I'm on RU 10mg right now, but might have to get off from some sides. Don't know if I want to try CB or PGD2+PGE2, both will occur with rolling.
> 
> I'm already taking monthly pictures as I just started RU a month ago.


 AFAIK, and don't take this as 100% truth, is that minoxidil raises PGE2 levels after rolling. PGE2 levels are about half in balding men compared to non-balding, so they definitely need to go up. PGD2 levels in balding men are significantly higher, and that needs to be suppressed.

Your logic is definitely on track though with PGD2 and PGE2.

DHT imo should still be inhibited. Minox should be in everyones regimen I think.

I'm just curious what these initiatives could do to Replicel, suppose the missing link for Replicel is a growth factor, something as simple as minox? I'm sure they've ONLY done trials on their own method alone, but who knows what a combination of things could do... for example, FIN + Minox is a great combo, I bet nobody saw that coming.

----------


## thatkidd

> AFAIK, and don't take this as 100% truth, is that minoxidil raises PGE2 levels after rolling. PGE2 levels are about half in balding men compared to non-balding, so they definitely need to go up. PGD2 levels in balding men are significantly higher, and that needs to be suppressed.
> 
> Your logic is definitely on track though with PGD2 and PGE2.
> 
> DHT imo should still be inhibited. Minox should be in everyones regimen I think.
> 
> I'm just curious what these initiatives could do to Replicel, suppose the missing link for Replicel is a growth factor, something as simple as minox? I'm sure they've ONLY done trials on their own method alone, but who knows what a combination of things could do... for example, FIN + Minox is a great combo, I bet nobody saw that coming.


 Yeah definitely. I've been on fin and minox for a while now. Just added RU a month ago. What you're saying though is that even with PGD2 inhibition and a PGE2 increase, we still need to block DHT. I'm on fin and RU plus minox, might switch RU for CB. Either way, I should be blocking DHT.

So my treatment now is 
Fin + RU + Minox

And my treatment might soon be
Fin + CB + PGD2 +PGE3 + Minox + Rolling or
Fin + RU + PGD2 +PGE3 + Minox + Rolling or

Blocking DHT alone doesn't seem to help me a ton. I think that's one reason I might need to bring in something that helps in a different way, and that would be PGD2 and PGE3. I'm just not sure if there are any studies on these, or what vehicle to use...

----------


## hellouser

> Yeah definitely. I've been on fin and minox for a while now. Just added RU a month ago. What you're saying though is that even with PGD2 inhibition and a PGE2 increase, we still need to block DHT. I'm on fin and RU plus minox, might switch RU for CB. Either way, I should be blocking DHT.
> 
> So my treatment now is 
> Fin + RU + Minox
> 
> And my treatment might soon be
> Fin + CB + PGD2 +PGE3 + Minox + Rolling or
> Fin + RU + PGD2 +PGE3 + Minox + Rolling or
> 
> Blocking DHT alone doesn't seem to help me a ton. I think that's one reason I might need to bring in something that helps in a different way, and that would be PGD2 and PGE3. I'm just not sure if there are any studies on these, or what vehicle to use...


 Try the standard ethanol/PG vehicle or alternate between something else. I think if your dermarolling it wont matter a whole lot as youre going to get much better penetration.

----------


## hellouser

I got my dermaroller in the mail today, here it is:





Will be doing my first 'roll session' today. No minox until 24 hours later  :Smile:

----------


## clandestine

Needle width /penetration?

----------


## hellouser

So I took out some of my remaining RU from earlier this year. Exfoliated scalp, showered, gently used my dermaroller and then applied 1ml with 100mg of RU followed by Minoxidil (1.5ml @ 5%)

I'm shedding a LOT today, mostly smaller finer hairs. However I've been shedding quite a bit in the last month. The odd thing is, is that my hair density still isn't as bad as it used to be a year and a half ago when my hair was really thin. I'm definitely fluctuating which is pissing me off.

I've been looking at Finasteride's efficacy in terms of DHT inhibition as well how long until DHT levels come back to normal. Its typically about 7 days. Spencer Kobren takes Finasteride *once a week* and he's maintained with that more or less for many years. DHT doesn't need to be kept at minimum every day, it takes a while for the body to reproduce it. I'm giving it SOME thought to go this route with RU, Minox, CB and Dermarolling all added into the regimen.

I'm going to be doing another strong dermarolling session tomorrow, much more vigorous than last weeks, going to induce much more bleeding. I didn't notice much redness out of my scalp last time, so things should pick up.

I've been giving SABA gel some though as well to use around my hairline. That as well as those growth factors lilpauly has mentioned, growth was around 10% for women and sometimes up to 30%, I suspect these numbers will be similar if not better for men.

It's time to NUKE the scalp.




> Needle width /penetration?


 Sorry, I don't know.

----------


## hellouser

Not sure if RU went systemic or not, but my testicles feel odd ever since I thought about them shrinking due to previous use of RU. Could just be placebo.

God I hate this disease, no matter what you do to battle this fvcking shit, theres always a downside.... and doctors don't give a single fvck about getting a cure out the door for people, its as if society would rather have us bald and miserable.

----------


## StayThick

> So I took out some of my remaining RU from earlier this year. Exfoliated scalp, showered, gently used my dermaroller and then applied 1ml with 100mg of RU followed by Minoxidil (1.5ml @ 5&#37
> 
> I'm shedding a LOT today, mostly smaller finer hairs. However I've been shedding quite a bit in the last month. The odd thing is, is that my hair density still isn't as bad as it used to be a year and a half ago when my hair was really thin. I'm definitely fluctuating which is pissing me off.
> 
> I've been looking at Finasteride's efficacy in terms of DHT inhibition as well how long until DHT levels come back to normal. Its typically about 7 days. Spencer Kobren takes Finasteride *once a week* and he's maintained with that more or less for many years. DHT doesn't need to be kept at minimum every day, it takes a while for the body to reproduce it. I'm giving it SOME thought to go this route with RU, Minox, CB and Dermarolling all added into the regimen.
> 
> I'm going to be doing another strong dermarolling session tomorrow, much more vigorous than last weeks, going to induce much more bleeding. I didn't notice much redness out of my scalp last time, so things should pick up.
> 
> I've been giving SABA gel some though as well to use around my hairline. That as well as those growth factors lilpauly has mentioned, growth was around 10% for women and sometimes up to 30%, I suspect these numbers will be similar if not better for men.
> ...


 Wait...are you actually considering taking the Devil's drug Propecia? I mean even for once a week dose...to me that's messing with fire. 

I just couldn't do it. The sides were that bad.

----------


## hellouser

> Originally Posted by hellouser
> 
> 
> So I took out some of my remaining RU from earlier this year. Exfoliated scalp, showered, gently used my dermaroller and then applied 1ml with 100mg of RU followed by Minoxidil (1.5ml @ 5%)
> 
> I'm shedding a LOT today, mostly smaller finer hairs. However I've been shedding quite a bit in the last month. The odd thing is, is that my hair density still isn't as bad as it used to be a year and a half ago when my hair was really thin. I'm definitely fluctuating which is pissing me off.
> 
> I've been looking at Finasteride's efficacy in terms of DHT inhibition as well how long until DHT levels come back to normal. Its typically about 7 days. Spencer Kobren takes Finasteride *once a week* and he's maintained with that more or less for many years. DHT doesn't need to be kept at minimum every day, it takes a while for the body to reproduce it. I'm giving it SOME thought to go this route with RU, Minox, CB and Dermarolling all added into the regimen.
> 
> ...


 Desperate times call for desperate measures. I need to get CB immediately though. Thank christ I have Oleyl to penetrate skin better than ethanol.

----------


## Californication

Been on RU for about 3 weeks now. Had early gyno symptoms on fin as well as some side fat gain, so started at only 25 mg of RU, now at 35, crossing my fingers that I can get up to 50 without gyno/fat flaring up too bad.

Continued to shed, but I'm not using that high a dosage, so that's to be expected.

----------


## win200

Has anyone had any trouble with ordering from Kane using the Western Union or bank transfer methods?  I've never done either of those things before, and it looks like we simply confirm our order, then send an email notifying them that we've wired payment--is that accurate?  Also, what's the typical wait time to receive the shipment?  I'm in Seattle, WA.

----------


## hellouser

> Has anyone had any trouble with ordering from Kane using the Western Union or bank transfer methods?  I've never done either of those things before, and it looks like we simply confirm our order, then send an email notifying them that we've wired payment--is that accurate?  Also, what's the typical wait time to receive the shipment?  I'm in Seattle, WA.


 I just sent payment to Kane via Western Union through a kiosk. I couldnt send online, everytime I tried to complete a transfer I would get an error. Just go to a WU kiosk, give them his full name, country and city. Make sure you send funds in US dollars. You'll get an MTCN number from Western Union for which you will need to give to Kane through email so he can accept the payment.

It sounds complicated, but its pretty easy.

----------


## nliyan25

Hellouser, is it ok to use both RU58841 and Minox twice a day? And is it ok if you do dermarolling once a week while using both?

----------


## hellouser

> Hellouser, is it ok to use both RU58841 and Minox twice a day? And is it ok if you do dermarolling once a week while using both?


 RU twice a day isn't necessary. If youre dermarolling I wouldn't use RU, I'd go with CB, as RU can get into your bloodstream (and probably will after dermarolling) and go systemic with side effects similar to Finasteride.

----------


## nliyan25

> RU twice a day isn't necessary. If youre dermarolling I wouldn't use RU, I'd go with CB, as RU can get into your bloodstream (and probably will after dermarolling) and go systemic with side effects similar to Finasteride.


 OK, so it would be ok then to use CB once a day, Minox twice a day, and dermaroll once a week?

----------


## hellouser

> OK, so it would be ok then to use CB once a day, Minox twice a day, and dermaroll once a week?


 Bingo, thats going to be my regimen starting TODAY as I just received 98% pure CB-03-01 from Kane. I've still got some RU left so I'll use it around 5+ days after dermarolling ensuring that skin is thick enough to not let it go systemic. Any and all help I can get for a BOOST will be good.

Keep a close eye on the dermarolling thread as I've been reading LOTS about the theory and in talks across all the major hair loss forums, hopefully we can all pull together and find a solution through trial and error  :Smile: 

Good luck!

----------


## hellouser

I got my CB from Kane today, 2grams in total with another 4 grams coming in later on from another source. If used at 10mg/day it would last me almost two years (6000mg / 10 = 600 applications). I'm gonna be using about 15mg/day most likely at 1.5ml per application, at a 10&#37; concentration. I want to make sure I'm protecting my ENTIRE head from DHT hence the 1.5ml but also create regrowth at the hairline and HOPEFULLY fill in the corners.

First things first;

Payment with Kane went fine. Cost was $450 with shipping for only 2 grams. Payment was made through Western Union at a kiosk and then provided Kane the MTCN number via email. CB was shipped the next day and CB arrived in under a week, a day ahead of schedule actually, was supposed to arrive tomorrow according to the tracking number. I'm happy.

Packaging looks like this:



Opened up and theres another small package inside:



Opening up the smaller package lead to this:



I put this away for a few hours (in the freezer) and did more reading on wounding and all that. So now, lets get dissolving!

The setup and CB, which arrived in an airtight silver pouch:



As you can see the CB powder is in another small zip lock bag. Up close you can see the refined powder:



Again, the CB powder is provided in ANOTHER zip lock bag (looks like Kane tries pretty hard to keep it airtight)



Here's the CB in raw form in the bag:



So for my first batch I'm going to premix about 50mg of it in 2ml of ethanol with 2ml of propylene glycol for a total of 4ml. Therefor the 50mg in 4ml makes it a 12.5% concentration. A little below my desire 15% target, but it should do.



Here's the CB completely exposed on my digital scale:



I'm first going to use an Ethanol/PG vehicle, I'll try Oleyl in the coming days. However, the next photo is the CB in my really small glass jar which holds about 8-9ml total. In this photo, the CB has only been in the Ethanol (Everclear, 95%) for about 15-30 seconds and its ALREADY dissolving:



Here's the CB in the ethanol from outside the jar:



And after a 5-10 second light shake, the CB has dissolved COMPLETELY:



I gotta say, this stuff dissolves even faster than my RU58841. It looks pure as the driven snow.

I hope this helps!

----------


## hellouser

I'm at work at my desk, usually what I do whenever I'm struggling with work or something is bugging me i brush my hands through my hair. Typically this has an effect that I shed a bunch of hairs, sometimes 5-10.

Today, after ONE dose of CB: One hair shed. Just one.

Also, in the morning, shedding was significantly reduced when washing my hair. However, so please don't take this as gospel, it needs to be said that I did skip my application of minoxidil yesterday which could ALSO be the cause of less shedding as that shit is a BITCH to manage.

All in all, no noticeable side effects from CB at all.

----------


## win200

> I'm at work at my desk, usually what I do whenever I'm struggling with work or something is bugging me i brush my hands through my hair. Typically this has an effect that I shed a bunch of hairs, sometimes 5-10.
> 
> Today, after ONE dose of CB: One hair shed. Just one.
> 
> Also, in the morning, shedding was significantly reduced when washing my hair. However, so please don't take this as gospel, it needs to be said that I did skip my application of minoxidil yesterday which could ALSO be the cause of less shedding as that shit is a BITCH to manage.
> 
> All in all, no noticeable side effects from CB at all.


 I'm dermarolling, so I'm going to take your advice and use CB rather than RU; can you post Kane's link to CB sales?  I wasn't sure which product was the CB.

I figure with CB + dermarolling + minoxidil + finasteride + transplant (already had) I will have done as much as humanly possible to combat hair loss.

----------


## hellouser

> I'm dermarolling, so I'm going to take your advice and use CB rather than RU; can you post Kane's link to CB sales?  I wasn't sure which product was the CB.


 Sure:

http://www.thekaneshop.com/index.php...-form-iii.html




> I figure with CB + dermarolling + minoxidil + finasteride + transplant (already had) I will have done as much as humanly possible to combat hair loss.


 Well, theres other stuff thats out there that never made it to market but did go through clinical trials, like PSI, its a peptide that grew a lot of hair AND at the hairline. It got scrapped by Leo Pharma when they bought out the company that was working on it. Blame the fat business man asshole for that being killed off.

Then theres other stuff like emu oil, saba gel, PGD2 inhibitors, PGE2 promoters, etc. However, I've got a feeling that a synthetic form of FGF-9 injected to the scalp post wounding could give significant results.

----------


## hellouser

> I'm at work at my desk, usually what I do whenever I'm struggling with work or something is bugging me i brush my hands through my hair. Typically this has an effect that I shed a bunch of hairs, sometimes 5-10.
> 
> Today, after ONE dose of CB: One hair shed. Just one.
> 
> Also, in the morning, shedding was significantly reduced when washing my hair. However, so please don't take this as gospel, it needs to be said that I did skip my application of minoxidil yesterday which could ALSO be the cause of less shedding as that shit is a BITCH to manage.
> 
> All in all, no noticeable side effects from CB at all.


 Day 2:

After applying CB, then Minoxidil and 0.5ml of RU just at my hairline, shedding has decreased. Looks like CB is slowly taking effect but the Minox shed is still pushing forward. Blah.

I'll try a higher concentration and Oleyl/PG as the vehicle. See what works best.

----------


## Borealis

Just had a proper look at the top of my head and my hairloss is even worse than I thought it was. Give it a year and I'll probably be a NW5... at 21 :/

I really, REALLY don't want to try finasteride, I'm thinking the next option is one of RU or CB, but I don't really know how to go about it. Is ID's CB a viable option? Or am I going to have to mix my own?

----------


## hellouser

> Just had a proper look at the top of my head and my hairloss is even worse than I thought it was. Give it a year and I'll probably be a NW5... at 21 :/
> 
> I really, REALLY don't want to try finasteride, I'm thinking the next option is one of RU or CB, but I don't really know how to go about it. Is ID's CB a viable option? Or am I going to have to mix my own?


 I'd go with Kane's to be honest, you know what youre getting with his.

----------


## brunobald

What are the dangers of CB if any?

----------


## hellouser

> What are the dangers of CB if any?


 Skiny atrophy and cortisol levels. However in regards to skin atrophy it is weaker than the weakest of steroids that cause skin atrophy and your only using 10mg, which is a small amount.

As for cortisol levels, CB goes benign once in the blood stream so it should be rendered ineffective.

----------


## brunobald

> Skiny atrophy and cortisol levels. However in regards to skin atrophy it is weaker than the weakest of steroids that cause skin atrophy and your only using 10mg, which is a small amount.
> 
> As for cortisol levels, CB goes benign once in the blood stream so it should be rendered ineffective.


 
Thanks Hellouser you are wealth of info  :Big Grin:  Just looked at your pics in this thread for the first time and your hair growth from base line is impressive mate well done. It must have been hard to stick with the treatment through that shed you had in the middle.

----------


## HARIRI

> Skiny atrophy and cortisol levels. However in regards to skin atrophy it is weaker than the weakest of steroids that cause skin atrophy and your only using 10mg, which is a small amount.
> 
> As for cortisol levels, CB goes benign once in the blood stream so it should be rendered ineffective.


 Hellouser, how about the RU sides and dangers? I'm planning to add it to my Minoxidil regime once every evening.

----------


## hellouser

> Hellouser, how about the RU sides and dangers? I'm planning to add it to my Minoxidil regime once every evening.


 Same side effects as Finasteride *if* it goes systemic. Although RU is supposed to have a very short half life and the chances of it going systemic are somewhat low. Just don't dermaroll with RU58841, that pretty much guarantees it going to the bloodstream.

----------


## hellouser

Update:

3rd day in on CB, last night I skipped taking CB and shedding at my desk is more or less back to normal. So far it looks like this stuff needs to be taken DAILY.

I'll be trying out oleyl/pg tomorrow.

----------


## The Dark Knight

> Same side effects as Finasteride *if* it goes systemic. Although RU is supposed to have a very short half life and the chances of it going systemic are somewhat low. Just don't dermaroll with RU58841, that pretty much guarantees it going to the bloodstream.


 How many applications would it take to go systematic? I was taking 1ml 5&#37; RU everyday and got very bad sides

----------


## hellouser

> How many applications would it take to go systematic? I was taking 1ml 5% RU everyday and got very bad sides


 Too many variables; thickness of skin, concentration of alcohol, sebum production, etc. It could only take ONE application for it to go systemic. It most likely did for me after I; exfoliated, showered and gently dermarolled. This made it ridiculously easy for RU to get through the skin.

----------


## yan

> Update:
> 
> 3rd day in on CB, last night I skipped taking CB and shedding at my desk is more or less back to normal. So far it looks like this stuff needs to be taken DAILY.
> 
> I'll be trying out oleyl/pg tomorrow.


 If you take CB some more weeks or months, you should be able to even skip a whole month. 

The math is easy: 

After stopping fin, your system needs approx. 1-2 weeks to rebuild DHT. After those 2 weeks, DHT begins to attack your hair follicles. But the thing is, it needs like 3-6 months till you see hair loss, bcs DHT does damage over time to your hair follicles, so you won`t lose your hair instant. 

Only difference with CB is the 1-2 weeks. After skipping a CB day, DHT is instantly back at the hair follicle and starts attacking it. But you won`t lose your hair, it takes the same 3-6 months. 

So in theory, you should lose your hair approx 3-6 months after quiting fin and 2.5-5.5 months after quiting CB.

But of course, you take other stuff like minox and RU, so my math is quite useless in your case.

----------


## hellouser

> If you take CB some more weeks or months, you should be able to even skip a whole month. 
> 
> The math is easy: 
> 
> After stopping fin, your system needs approx. 1-2 weeks to rebuild DHT. After those 2 weeks, DHT begins to attack your hair follicles. But the thing is, it needs like 3-6 months till you see hair loss, bcs DHT does damage over time to your hair follicles, so you won`t lose your hair instant. 
> 
> Only difference with CB is the 1-2 weeks. After skipping a CB day, DHT is instantly back at the hair follicle and starts attacking it. But you won`t lose your hair, it takes the same 3-6 months. 
> 
> So in theory, you should lose your hair approx 3-6 months after quiting fin and 2.5-5.5 months after quiting CB.
> ...


 But thats when taking finasteride orally. The body stops producing it where as on CB your only blocking DHT at the follicle and DHT is abundant all day, EVERY day.

----------


## The Dark Knight

> Too many variables; thickness of skin, concentration of alcohol, sebum production, etc. It could only take ONE application for it to go systemic. It most likely did for me after I; exfoliated, showered and gently dermarolled. This made it ridiculously easy for RU to get through the skin.


 Interesting, guess I'm just to sensitive to bloccking DHT

Also, thanks for what your're doing for all of us, hope you and the other guys working on this can find a suitable vehicle so we can atleast keep what we got on our heads

----------


## hellouser

> Interesting, guess I'm just to sensitive to bloccking DHT
> 
> Also, thanks for what your're doing for all of us, hope you and the other guys working on this can find a suitable vehicle so we can atleast keep what we got on our heads


 KB solution, a vehicle for RU is supposed to eliminate the side effects as.. you could try mixing RU in that?

----------


## yan

> But thats when taking finasteride orally. The body stops producing it where as on CB your only blocking DHT at the follicle and DHT is abundant all day, EVERY day.


 Hell thats exactly what I described in my post!? That doesn`t matter! 

1-2 weeks after fin orally, DHT levels are back to normal. But you won`t lose hair after 1-2 weeks. It takes some months. 

I took 1mg fin daily for 5 months. It took about 3-4 months after quiting fin till I saw hair loss.

----------


## hellouser

> Hell thats exactly what I described in my post!? That doesn`t matter! 
> 
> 1-2 weeks after fin orally, DHT levels are back to normal. But you won`t lose hair after 1-2 weeks. It takes some months. 
> 
> I took 1mg fin daily for 5 months. It took about 3-4 months after quiting fin till I saw hair loss.


 Yeah but noticeable hair loss isn't immediate anyway. Just like regular hair loss is only noticeable when about HALF your density has been lost. The same would apply to quitting fin or CB, you'd start losing immediately but you wouldnt notice it immediately.

----------


## Avacfc

Hellouser if your already seeing CB stopping your shedding can we say this is an early positive as not many treatments out there do this so quickly. 
I'm ready to jump on the bandwagon but I'm unsure whether or not to use enthanol or oleyl.

----------


## hellouser

> Hellouser if your already seeing CB stopping your shedding can we say this is an early positive as not many treatments out there do this so quickly. 
> I'm ready to jump on the bandwagon but I'm unsure whether or not to use enthanol or oleyl.


 Ethanol is easy to get, start off with that at least and while your on CB wiht ethanol, work on trying to get oleyl. Don't waste time by allowing AGA to progress.

----------


## yan

> Yeah but noticeable hair loss isn't immediate anyway. Just like regular hair loss is only noticeable when about HALF your density has been lost. The same would apply to quitting fin or CB, you'd start losing immediately but you wouldnt notice it immediately.


 Well I saw hairs at my hairline which disappeared after 3-4 months. DHT needs time, a hair gets weaker and weaker, but this is a process of weeks / months. So I guess you could skip CB for lets say 2 weeks holidays and you wouldn`t lose any hairs you gained through CB / fin...  :Wink:

----------


## Phatalis

This might sound annoying but I'm jut going to say it.

I don't get it. Does RU work? Does CB actually work? The home-made versions? I'm asking because every thread I see this being done on has 50million different ways to prepare it.

Not only that but the people doing it on here are also on a plethora of other shit so I can't actually take it seriously when they say it works. It's not like they just use CB alone.

It's always CB, RU, Minox, Fin and then they say CB works but how the **** do they actually know?? You can't perform a test that way it makes no ****ing sense.

I would be on CB now as I think it's our hope but I'm still not convinced it works. And even then Kane had a bad version out for a while and people used that and said it works when it wasn't even the real CB.

So seriously, DOES CB WORK? Which version of it? How is it prepared actually the proper way? Has it been tested alone and by itself without all the other crap also?

I appreciate and love that you guys do this, you're amazing... but at the same time all this stuff was so messy that I just didn't take it seriously and was waiting for Cosmo to release theirs in a few years.

----------


## hellouser

> This might sound annoying but I'm jut going to say it.
> 
> I don't get it. Does RU work? Does CB actually work? The home-made versions? I'm asking because every thread I see this being done on has 50million different ways to prepare it.


 50 million ways = ethanol/pg, oleyl/pg, dmi/dmso, iontophoresis? So... 4 ways is 50 million? Ok.

Hold on, lets try... CB in KB or ethatnol/oleyl/pg... so a maximum of 6 ways.




> So seriously, DOES CB WORK? Which version of it? How is it prepared actually the proper way? Has it been tested alone and by itself without all the other crap also?
> 
> I appreciate and love that you guys do this, you're amazing... but at the same time all this stuff was so messy that I just didn't take it seriously and was waiting for Cosmo to release theirs in a few years.


 There have been a few members that I've seen with results equal to finasteride and better, but those who have been able to use CB were forking out serious cash to have it done. Only recently has CB come to a relatively low price.

Youre not going to see the results YOU want in such a short amount of time when damn near all of us just got the right form of it recently. As you know, hair grows damn slow so its going to be many weeks before most users of CB will see an improvement, and thats not even takign into consideration any possible shed.

----------


## Phatalis

> 50 million ways = ethanol/pg, oleyl/pg, dmi/dmso, iontophoresis? So... 4 ways is 50 million? Ok.
> 
> Hold on, lets try... CB in KB or ethatnol/oleyl/pg... so a maximum of 6 ways.
> 
> 
> 
> There have been a few members that I've seen with results equal to finasteride and better, but those who have been able to use CB were forking out serious cash to have it done. Only recently has CB come to a relatively low price.
> 
> Youre not going to see the results YOU want in such a short amount of time when damn near all of us just got the right form of it recently. As you know, hair grows damn slow so its going to be many weeks before most users of CB will see an improvement, and thats not even takign into consideration any possible shed.


 I'm more just trying to halt further loss tbh... thats all I care about.

----------


## Phatalis

> 50 million ways = ethanol/pg, oleyl/pg, dmi/dmso, iontophoresis? So... 4 ways is 50 million? Ok.
> 
> Hold on, lets try... CB in KB or ethatnol/oleyl/pg... so a maximum of 6 ways.
> 
> 
> 
> There have been a few members that I've seen with results equal to finasteride and better, but those who have been able to use CB were forking out serious cash to have it done. Only recently has CB come to a relatively low price.
> 
> Youre not going to see the results YOU want in such a short amount of time when damn near all of us just got the right form of it recently. As you know, hair grows damn slow so its going to be many weeks before most users of CB will see an improvement, and thats not even takign into consideration any possible shed.


 Sorry I wasn't trying to be offensive. Just had a moment of frustration. You're the shit bro. I appreciate what you and everyone does.

----------


## HARIRI

Hellouser, after reading thru your whole thread. I found out that RU is quite risky so I decided to go with CB and Minox regime since CB has zero sexual sides. So in this way, could you tell me briefly whats the best way to prepare it at home? The Kane Shop will deliver 1 gram of CORTEXOLONE 17ALPHA PROPIONATE FORM III. I'm planning to choose Ethanol/PG as a vehicle since its not sticky to the hair as Regaine using it as vehicle too.

Could you please tell me how much mg of CB I should put into how much ml of Ethanol and ml of PG???

----------


## win200

> Sure:
> 
> http://www.thekaneshop.com/index.php...-form-iii.html
> 
> 
> 
> Well, theres other stuff thats out there that never made it to market but did go through clinical trials, like PSI, its a peptide that grew a lot of hair AND at the hairline. It got scrapped by Leo Pharma when they bought out the company that was working on it. Blame the fat business man asshole for that being killed off.
> 
> Then theres other stuff like emu oil, saba gel, PGD2 inhibitors, PGE2 promoters, etc. However, I've got a feeling that a synthetic form of FGF-9 injected to the scalp post wounding could give significant results.


 Thanks, hellouser.  I'm ordering CB tomorrow and I'll add it to my regimen.  I'm lucky in that I've got, post transplant, a full head of hair--I'm *not* going to lose it, goddammit.

----------


## hellouser

> Hellouser, after reading thru your whole thread. I found out that RU is quite risky so I decided to go with CB and Minox regime since CB has zero sexual sides. So in this way, could you tell me briefly whats the best way to prepare it at home? The Kane Shop will deliver 1 gram of CORTEXOLONE 17ALPHA PROPIONATE FORM III. I'm planning to choose Ethanol/PG as a vehicle since its not sticky to the hair as Regaine using it as vehicle too.
> 
> Could you please tell me how much mg of CB I should put into how much ml of Ethanol and ml of PG???


 Cosmo used 1% and 5% concentrations in their iontophoresis trials. Thus, per 1ml you should use 10mg - 50mg. I'm currently using around 13mg/1ml.

If CB proves more effective than RU, there will be no reason to use RU anymore.... unless there are side effects which we aren't aware of from CB, though the same can be said for RU. Its kind of a gamble.

----------


## nliyan25

> Cosmo used 1% and 5% concentrations in their iontophoresis trials. Thus, per 1ml you should use 10mg - 50mg. I'm currently using around 13mg/1ml.
> 
> If CB proves more effective than RU, there will be no reason to use RU anymore.... unless there are side effects which we aren't aware of from CB, though the same can be said for RU. Its kind of a gamble.


 Hey Hellouser, I see that you bought an extra 4 grams of CB from somewhere outside of Kane. Where exactly did you purchase that from?

----------


## hellouser

> Hey Hellouser, I see that you bought an extra 4 grams of CB from somewhere outside of Kane. Where exactly did you purchase that from?


 It was a 'group buy' on another forum. I've yet to receive my CB from it as it hasn't been made yet, thus, I dont know what the source is.

----------


## hellouser

****UPDATE****

I got my Oleyl and PG.

Prepared 4 batches of it again at 12.5mg of CB per 1ml.
I used 3.6ml of PG and 0.4ml of Oleyl for a total of 4ml, therefor, for every 1ml application, I have 0.9ml of PG and 0.1ml of Oleyl.

Here's a shot of Kane's CB in PG *only*. This has been stirred and mixed with my dropper. Actually what I do to mix CB (or RU) in liquids is by squeezing and letting go with the dropper pretty quickly, basically sucking in and out until its mixed. As you can see, CB does dissolve but *slowly* in PG:



The next shot is of CB in PG and Oleyl after its been added and mixed a little again. As you can see its not 100% dissolved (unless we're seeing small bubbles). Its actually difficult to distinguish CB from the little air bubbles when you mix it up, PG is pretty oil as is Oleyl.



The next shot we see that CB dissolves completely in PG and Oleyl when we wait for a couple minutes:



So, after my first application of 1ml I can say the following:

1) Its pretty greasy.
2) Its itchy.
3) It has a very mild burning sensation when spread around the scalp.
4) Oleyl smells like fish oil supplement pills.

As for my progress so far... well, obviously its way too early as hair grows DAMN SLOW, however I can say this: every time I've applied CB, the next day I've noticed a significant decrease in shedding when I was using it in an ethanol/PG vehicle (50/50 concentration). Does it work? Well, it stops shedding, lol. We'll see if it regrows like the Cosmo claims.

----------


## Californication

What do you guys make of chest discomfort with RU?

I don't know whether it's the cause, but I'm a young fit guy, and I've been having slight chest pain last two weeks or so. Researched and it does seem there is a small precedent for it, a guy by the name of Maradona even posted about it on baldtruth talk. Gonna go see the doc tomorrow, make sure everythings ok.

Most concerning was this Spanish thread that Maradona posted: http://www.ganarpelo.org/foro/viewto...p?f=12&t=31889

In it, the guy who claims RU gave him heart failure also. He also says he was in correspondence with Boldy and that Boldy said the following: "Boldy by email has told me "CB destroyed my heart"."

It'd be great if Boldy could give some insight on this as other antiandrogen blockers are supposedly known to cause heart failure/problem (?).

Not to alarm anyone, CB is supposed to be without side effects, and this RU effect must be rare, but still, figured it was my duty to share what I'd been experiencing/read.

----------


## JJacobs152

hellouser, when can we expect a future picture update?  :Smile:

----------


## HARIRI

Hellouser, what is your opinion on Minoxidil 10&#37;? I'm already using Minoxidil 5% once a day before bedtime and found out last week that MPB treatments are selling plain standard Minoxidil (custom strength): http://www.mpbtreatments.com/#/shop/...ength)/2140606

Whats your advice upon that? Would I upgrade my intake to Minoxidil 10% once a day instead of 5% once a day? Need your golden advice Bro.

----------


## The Dark Knight

> KB solution, a vehicle for RU is supposed to eliminate the side effects as.. you could try mixing RU in that?


 Interesting, but I think I've had it with RU, I may just try CB. If I do, I'll make a thread showing any results

----------


## Atum

Think that i'm gonna give this a try.
I don't use minox, so it should give a indication if it works or not without minox.

Just to be clear, is the product called: Cortexolone 17alpha propionate Form III on the Kane website?

----------


## hellouser

> Just to be clear, is the product called: Cortexolone 17alpha propionate Form III on the Kane website?


 Yes.

----------


## Californication

Anyone in contact with Boldy? He's a trustworthy member so did he actually say "CB destroyed my heart" as the guy on the spanish forum who suffered from heart failure while on RU claim?

This is important information for anyone looking to take the drug.

----------


## yan

If you search the internet, you will find some of boldys statements:

"Do you notice irregular heartbeat + chest pressure/ PAIN with CB? If so, I would drop it. that was the reason I quit CB. "

So it seems like boldy had heart problems. But I searched the net for like 10 mins and he is the only person reporting that kind of side effect... Even if he is trustworthy, he`s just one person who used CB in wrong form and with the wrong vehicle. Cosmo tested this stuff on dozens of persons in a phase 2 european pilot study (http://intrepidthera.com/wp-content/...ifu-et-al-.pdf), in several pre-clinical trials and and and... They never reported ANY systemic side-effects. In early 2014 we will have phase 2 acne results. So by then, we will know even more about possible side-effects... 

From the phase 2 european pilot study document:
"Regarding systemic tolerability, no clinically important abnormalities were detected in any treated group in haematology, clinical laboratory, urinalysis, vital signs and other observations related to safety"

----------


## thatkidd

> Yes.


 Hey Hell, getting in a little late here where did you get your Oleyl? Does it need to be 99%? What I've seen is damn expensive (obviously, money is no object in this game though)

Thanks for everything you do. RU gave me sides so is a no go...hoping to try CB.

Thanks!

----------


## UK_

> Anyone in contact with Boldy? He's a trustworthy member so did he actually say "CB destroyed my heart" as the guy on the spanish forum who suffered from heart failure while on RU claim?
> 
> This is important information for anyone looking to take the drug.


 So he was able to type and send an email with a "destroyed heart".

Incredible.

----------


## HARIRI

Guys, what is your opinion on Minoxidil 10&#37;? I'm already using Regaine Minoxidil 5% once a day before bedtime and found out last week that MPB treatments are selling plain standard Minoxidil (custom strength): 

http://www.mpbtreatments.com/#/shop/...ength)/2140606

Whats your advice upon that? Would I upgrade my intake to Minoxidil 10% once a day instead of 5% once a day? 

Need your golden advice.

----------


## Avacfc

Hows the CB going hellouser, you been on it about a week now. Just placed my order with kane. Also how are you storing the powder form mate?

----------


## hellouser

> Hows the CB going hellouser, you been on it about a week now. Just placed my order with kane. Also how are you storing the powder form mate?


 I'm still shedding, quite a lot actually. 30-50 hairs in the shower and probably another 50 throughout the day.

I've got my CB stored in the freezer.

----------


## hellouser

****small update****

Its been well over a week since I've started my CB regimen, and its gone like this:

Days 1-4: Ethanol/PG Vehicle: Shedding immediately decreased
Days 5-9: Oleyl/PG Vehicle: Shedding increased with each passing day
Days 10-12: Ethanol/PG Vehicle: Shedding decreased dramatically

I don't think Oleyl/PG is feasible, the amount of hair that I was shedding by the fourth day was terrible, between 30-50 hairs in the shower alone and more throughout the day.

A couple days ago I got back on the ethanol/pg vehicle and my shedding has decreased significantly. It takes more effort finding the hairs on my hands through the shampoo. Sometimes I'll wash my hair in the sink, which is actually a good way to tell how much hair is leftover. Can't do that in the shower as everything goes down the drain or gets scattered in the tub.

I don't think I'll be using oleyl/pg anymore. My scalp got VERY VERY itchy after the 4th application, it was getting worse with each day. The only positive about it was that it spread across the scalp under all my hair much better.

I'm still dermarolling weekly and applying Kirkland's 5% minoxidil 1-2 times a day and Nizoral 2-3 times a week.

We'll see how things go  :Smile:

----------


## simba

Ethanol and pg is what ID is selling isn't it?

----------


## hellouser

> Ethanol and pg is what ID is selling isn't it?


 Yes, but I don't know what the concentration is. I'm using a 50/50 mix.

----------


## clandestine

hell where did you pick up PG propylene glycol?

----------


## clandestine

Should I try eBay for PG?

----------


## UK_

> Ethanol and pg is what ID is selling isn't it?


 You're better off buying from Kane and buying pg/ethanol mix from mpbtreatments.

I wouldnt trust ID from past experiences.

----------


## HARIRI

> You're better off buying from Kane and buying pg/ethanol mix from mpbtreatments.
> 
> I wouldnt trust ID from past experiences.


 Interesting remark UK_, Could you please explain more about it? I pre ordered 3 bottles from ID. Which ID past experiences did you mean? Thx.  :Confused:

----------


## cleverusername

> Should I try eBay for PG?


 You can get it from a local pharmacy, and if they don't have it they can order it for you, that's what I did. I got 500ml for around $7.

----------


## clandestine

> You can get it from a local pharmacy, and if they don't have it they can order it for you, that's what I did. I got 500ml for around $7.


 I've tried 4 different local pharmacies now; none willing to sell or order PG.

Can't say what's going on.

----------


## Troy

> I've tried 4 different local pharmacies now; none willing to sell or order PG.
> 
> Can't say what's going on.


 The same happened to me...just get it on Ebay or Amazon!

----------


## simba

> I've tried 4 different local pharmacies now; none willing to sell or order PG.
> 
> Can't say what's going on.


 Not worth the effort for such small price

----------


## hellouser

> Not worth the effort for such small price


 The Shoppers Drug Mart I went to I simply said to one of the pharmacists:

'Hi, I have a cream based treatment that my mom uses but its much too harsh. Would you be able to sell me some polypropylene glycol? I don't need much, just about 200ml will do.'

I've never had issues, they always had it stored in a container ready to be supplied.

----------


## Cob984

I stopped trying to wait for those clowns at ID

express shipped the vehicle from mpb trtmnts

Just emailed ID again and they said no clue on arrival date yet, stringing us along for months now, f that

----------


## HARIRI

> I stopped trying to wait for those clowns at ID
> 
> express shipped the vehicle from mpb trtmnts
> 
> Just emailed ID again and they said no clue on arrival date yet, stringing us along for months now, f that


 So what is the solution now? Do we have to wait for our pre mixed CB order from ID or cancel the order and ask for refund!!!

Is ID worth the wait or we should order CB powder from Kane shop and PG/Ethanol vehicle from MPBtreatment which will be much more expensive!!!

Any opinions???  :Confused:  :Confused:  :Confused:

----------


## clandestine

Kane might be releasing a CB premixed eventually but I doubt you'd want to wait.

I'd say order CB from Kane, and just get PG and Ethanol yourself, do your own mixing.

----------


## nliyan25

This is sweet. I've been using Ru58841 for a week and a half now, and after a few days of slight extra shedding(not that much more than usual), I only lost about thirty hairs yesterday compared to a usual 100-200 hairs. I hope this gets better. I'm also using rogaine-5%, one time a day. This is the third time I'm using it in the past 2 years. Previously, when I used minoxidil, I shed more than 200 hairs a day for a few months but after using minoxidil for two weeks now, that hasn't happened this time. I'm hoping the thin hair in the middle and front of my scalp grows back thicker the next few months. Wish me luck!

----------


## simba

> This is sweet. I've been using Ru58841 for a week and a half now, and after a few days of slight extra shedding(not that much more than usual), I only lost about thirty hairs yesterday compared to a usual 100-200 hairs. I hope this gets better. I'm also using rogaine-5%, one time a day. This is the third time I'm using it in the past 2 years. Previously, when I used minoxidil, I shed more than 200 hairs a day for a few months but after using minoxidil for two weeks now, that hasn't happened this time. I'm hoping the thin hair in the middle and front of my scalp grows back thicker the next few months. Wish me luck!


 Sounds good man keep at it and keep us updated.

----------


## nliyan25

> Sounds good man keep at it and keep us updated.


 Yeah dude, for sure. I'm hoping things thicker up on top, that's my main concern.

----------


## DesperateOne

So hellouser you would say that once you up the antee to 100mg of RU a day with the correct vehicle, you saw regrowth of RU in about four months? I am wondering because I got my RU today and thinking about using it soon.

----------


## The Dark Knight

Sorry for asking this here but how do I pay Kane? How does Western Union or Bank Wire Transfer work?

----------


## hellouser

> So hellouser you would say that once you up the antee to 100mg of RU a day with the correct vehicle, you saw regrowth of RU in about four months? I am wondering because I got my RU today and thinking about using it soon.


 Was actually in LESS than four months. I was shedding between December - February, got on RU @ 100mg/1ml and started to regain density from March - May. Then quit RU in May as well. Started shedding again in July and I'm still going with shedding, though its finally reduced somewhat since starting CB about 2 weeks ago. However, I did use oleyl in my vehicle for CB and it caused great scalp irritation, burning, itching and shedding. I've switched to ethanol/PG for CB, hopefully I'll get back to baseline and then some in due time.

My libido is off the charts the last week or so. Erections are rock hard and am getting easily turned on. Booyah.

I'm contemplating buying another 10grams of RU but this time applying it between 20-50mg at 1.5ml using my Kirkland's Minoxidil as the vehicle as well as at least 2-3 days after dermarolling (don't want it to go systemic, dermarolling will significantly increase the chances of that).

10g of RU while using only 30mg/1.5ml would last me 1-2 years considering I'd be doing it 3-4 times a week instead of every day. Not a bad way to spend $200 bucks on hair loss treatments for nearly 2 years! I may opt to get just 5 grams, I highly doubt it will still be good after 1 year... nevermind 2 years!

----------


## HARIRI

> Was actually in LESS than four months. I was shedding between December - February, got on RU @ 100mg/1ml and started to regain density from March - May. Then quit RU in May as well. Started shedding again in July and I'm still going with shedding, though its finally reduced somewhat since starting CB about 2 weeks ago. However, I did use oleyl in my vehicle for CB and it caused great scalp irritation, burning, itching and shedding. I've switched to ethanol/PG for CB, hopefully I'll get back to baseline and then some in due time.
> 
> My libido is off the charts the last week or so. Erections are rock hard and am getting easily turned on. Booyah.
> 
> I'm contemplating buying another 10grams of RU but this time applying it between 20-50mg at 1.5ml using my Kirkland's Minoxidil as the vehicle as well as at least 2-3 days after dermarolling (don't want it to go systemic, dermarolling will significantly increase the chances of that).
> 
> 10g of RU while using only 30mg/1.5ml would last me 1-2 years considering I'd be doing it 3-4 times a week instead of every day. Not a bad way to spend $200 bucks on hair loss treatments for nearly 2 years! I may opt to get just 5 grams, I highly doubt it will still be good after 1 year... nevermind 2 years!


 1st question

How do you manage to apply these three (CB,RU,MINOXIDIL) in one day? Which to use first? Whats the sequence? Im really curious.

2nd question

As soon I will get my CB mixed with Ethanol/PG, which to apply first before bedtime? CB or Minoxidil and how long do I need to wait before applying the other?

Thank a lot Hellouser. You are out expert  :Cool:  :Cool:  :Cool:

----------


## hellouser

> 1st question
> 
> How do you manage to apply these three (CB,RU,MINOXIDIL) in one day? Which to use first? Whats the sequence? Im really curious.


 I only use CB and Minox right now, and before it was only RU and Minox. Usually I apply Minoxidil around 6pm (after work) and then RU at around midnight before bed.




> 2nd question
> 
> As soon I will get my CB mixed with Ethanol/PG, which to apply first before bedtime? CB or Minoxidil and how long do I need to wait before applying the other?
> 
> Thank a lot Hellouser. You are out expert


 Ideally I think 8 hours between applications is good, depending on how fast the topical dries. Sometimes I would use Minox at 6pm, RU at 11pm, and Minox again at midnight. I never apply minox first because its pretty heavily and wont allow (imo) RU in ethanol/PG to pass through it.

----------


## Jazz1

Would lipogaine be a good vehicle for RU, it contains ethanol and pg?

----------


## hellouser

> Would lipogaine be a good vehicle for RU, it contains ethanol and pg?


 Depending on the concentration of ethanol to PG, yeah it should be fine. I was using around 0.6ml - 0.7ml of ethanol and 0.3ml - 0.4ml of PG for RU. Worked well for me. Would be an interesting combo: RU/Minox/Azelaic Acid in a single dose.

----------


## DesperateOne

> Was actually in LESS than four months. I was shedding between December - February, got on RU @ 100mg/1ml and started to regain density from March - May. Then quit RU in May as well. Started shedding again in July and I'm still going with shedding, though its finally reduced somewhat since starting CB about 2 weeks ago. However, I did use oleyl in my vehicle for CB and it caused great scalp irritation, burning, itching and shedding. I've switched to ethanol/PG for CB, hopefully I'll get back to baseline and then some in due time.
> 
> My libido is off the charts the last week or so. Erections are rock hard and am getting easily turned on. Booyah.
> 
> I'm contemplating buying another 10grams of RU but this time applying it between 20-50mg at 1.5ml using my Kirkland's Minoxidil as the vehicle as well as at least 2-3 days after dermarolling (don't want it to go systemic, dermarolling will significantly increase the chances of that).
> 
> 10g of RU while using only 30mg/1.5ml would last me 1-2 years considering I'd be doing it 3-4 times a week instead of every day. Not a bad way to spend $200 bucks on hair loss treatments for nearly 2 years! I may opt to get just 5 grams, I highly doubt it will still be good after 1 year... nevermind 2 years!


 In a post somewhere you mentioned that you shouldn't go lower than 50mg/1ml a day because it wouldn't do shit. I also heard on the show that if you miss just one day of RU application, you will Shed like crazy, is this true? Since I am on fin already I would assume I should be able to miss a day or two while I use the derma roller and not get excessive shedding.

----------


## baldee

hellouser, did you ever use fin ? If yes, did you get any results ? I'm interested in starting RU or CB, after loosing most of my hair while on the Big 3. How likely is it to respond to a topical anti-androgen if you did not respond to a systemic...

----------


## hellouser

> hellouser, did you ever use fin ? If yes, did you get any results ? I'm interested in starting RU or CB, after loosing most of my hair while on the Big 3. How likely is it to respond to a topical anti-androgen if you did not respond to a systemic...


 Never used Fin. Would rather see Merck go completely bankrupt.

----------


## marikeo

> Was actually in LESS than four months. I was shedding between December - February, got on RU @ 100mg/1ml and started to regain density from March - May. Then quit RU in May as well. Started shedding again in July ....


 I really cannot understand why you are off of RU if you had success and no sides. I have to think that all your time and effort spent is worth the $300 you need to pay to get RU from Kane. Worst case, you would only need to use until you know for certain there is a viable alternative (which you have not found yet). 

I know $100/month (assuming 100/mg) sounds like a lot but is it really if you had such success? $25 bucks a week or $6 a day. I would think that price to keep/grow your hair back is a steal.

----------


## hellouser

> I really cannot understand why you are off of RU if you had success and no sides. I have to think that all your time and effort spent is worth the $300 you need to pay to get RU from Kane. Worst case, you would only need to use until you know for certain there is a viable alternative (which you have not found yet). 
> 
> I know $100/month (assuming 100/mg) sounds like a lot but is it really if you had such success? $25 bucks a week or $6 a day. I would think that price to keep/grow your hair back is a steal.


 I wasn't side free, my libido was definitely down. Keep in mind I was on 160-320mg of Saw Palmetto per day which may have been the cause of it. I am contemplating getting back on it at 20-50mg/day, 3-4x a week (after dermarolling).

----------


## marikeo

> I wasn't side free, my libido was definitely down. Keep in mind I was on 160-320mg of Saw Palmetto per day which may have been the cause of it. I am contemplating getting back on it at 20-50mg/day, 3-4x a week (after dermarolling).


 Wow, that is a lot of SP. I can understand how that could cause the effect when combined. 

I take it you are not on that amount any longer. I would bring back in RU like to said at a low dose and ease back in. My guess is you won't have libido issues this way. Or you can throttle back to the point where you don't. 

Not sure about derma-rolling with RU. I think RU is relatively safe below 100mg based on what I have read, but if you open up your blood stream to RU I think you are going into uncharted territory. Not sure it is necessary with the right vehicle. Particularly since you know you already had success.

----------


## hellouser

> Wow, that is a lot of SP. I can understand how that could cause the effect when combined. 
> 
> I take it you are not on that amount any longer. I would bring back in RU like to said at a low dose and ease back in. My guess is you won't have libido issues this way. Or you can throttle back to the point where you don't. 
> 
> Not sure about derma-rolling with RU. I think RU is relatively safe below 100mg based on what I have read, but if you open up your blood stream to RU I think you are going into uncharted territory. Not sure it is necessary with the right vehicle. Particularly since you know you already had success.


 160-320mg of Saw Palmetto really isnt much. Its a very weak AA.

One other member needs some RU as well who also lives in Toronto, theres a chance we're going to split the cost of a 10g order.

----------


## HARIRI

Guys, I got great news. The CB pre mixed formula is already available for real at Iron Dragon. They sent me an Email stating that its already shipped!  :Big Grin: 

Iron Dragon Research Peptides and Chemicals
------------------------------------------------------
Order Number: 76158
Detailed Invoice: https://www.iron-dragon.com/account_...order_id=76158
Date Ordered: Sunday 25 August, 2013

The comments for your order are

Your order has been updated to the following status.

New status: Shipped

Please reply to this email if you have any questions.

----------


## The Dark Knight

> Sorry for asking this here but how do I pay Kane? How does Western Union or Bank Wire Transfer work?


 Anyone?

----------


## DesperateOne

> Anyone?


 What bank do you have, every bank does it a little different. Essentially you login to your bank website and go to transfer funds, there should be a submenu with "wire transfer" option. There you will need to provide all of Kane's info, which he gives you when you're about to complete your order, during payment option. You then select the amount you want to transfer and in a day, it should transfer.

----------


## The Dark Knight

> What bank do you have, every bank does it a little different. Essentially you login to your bank website and go to transfer funds, there should be a submenu with "wire transfer" option. There you will need to provide all of Kane's info, which he gives you when you're about to complete your order, during payment option. You then select the amount you want to transfer and in a day, it should transfer.


 Thanks! Just finished paying, it was a bit of a hassle but hopefully worth it in the end

----------


## win200

Just got my CB from Kane.  Ordered 1g--such a tiny package, hard to believe that's good for a few months.  Now I just have to get ahold of some PG to much with ethanol to use as a vehicle.

----------


## win200

Also: um, why is Kane's website down?  That's slightly disconcerting.

----------


## nliyan25

I think I'm losing more hair now on RU, maybe this was bound to happen after using it for more than 2 weeks now. I'm losing maybe 70 hairs per day as of today, after losing about 30 or 40 pieces a day for a week or so. That's still a lot less than when I was using Minoxidil twice per day. In fact, I stopped using Minoxidil since I'm not convinced it ever did anything for me, even when I was using it for 6 months straight, twice a day. All I noticed was a lot of shedding that never stopped with no gains.

----------


## lilpauly

> Also: um, why is Kane's website down?  That's slightly disconcerting.


 An upgrade . It will be back up.

----------


## lilpauly

Guys we do not know a vehicle for cb! Wrong approach

----------


## doke

> Many of you have seen me post and boast about RU and many of you have also inquired about my progress... well, here is my log.
> 
> I noticed my hair going bad.. I mean really bad back in around March of 2011. I didn't notice it thin out or anything, but rather my hair line go waaaay back than what it used to be. I noticed this after I was at a club with friends and had some pictures of myself taken. The lighting on my face was rather harsh and it exposed a lot of scalp behind the hairline which made the hairline look higher than it actually is. This is where my life started going downhill..... its when I realized I looked ****ing weird and it was my hair. By this time I was already an NW2-3, but I never really took much notice into my hairline.. I didn't care about it before, I thought I looked normal (I mean I still do, but society is full of shithead assholes so no, by their standards I dont look normal).
> 
> *February, 2011* - Before Regimen
> So I started reading about things that can be done. I learned about Saw Palmetto, Nizoral, Finasteride, hair transplants and Replicel. I read about Finasteride castrating men and giving many side effects and it was a complete write off. It still is and its a dangerous drug which no man should take. I'm not saying I'd take it away from those who are already on it with results, but Finasteride is pure bullshit. My first line of defense? Saw Palmetto, and even with that I was hesitant as I ready about mild effects. But the bad breathe issue was the worst problem. It subsided eventually though.
> 
> Here's what my hair looked like then (these are from a club, so apologies for the crappy quality). Mind you, I used to use a good but 'wet' product called Bedhead by Tigi. This makes hair look quite thin as it climps hair real close together, hence it looking thin below.
> 
> ...


 hi hell many thanks for this post i only just found it and holy cow there is a massive improvement have you tried spironolactone 5% cream? and im now wondering whether to reuse my 5% mpb treatments ru plus with 5% minox not sure if i can afford cb as well.
If i could get back what you have done i would be very happy to what i have now although im a lot older than you hell.
This shedding you went through looks the same as irishpride had but turned it around like you,if we have to keep going through major sheds it will suck.
Do you think you have the right combo now hell?

----------


## doke

Is cb like ru?

----------


## HARIRI

> Is cb like ru?


 I asked the same question and two members answered me well:-

yan answer:-

"In preclinical studies, CB-03-01 was shown to be rapidly metabolized by the skin to the parent compound cortexolone, which is a physiological steroid lacking anti-androgen activity and is completely safe." 

"Cortexolone has good penetrative properties, making it suitable for topical use, and while effective locally it is metabolized into a harmless, inactive parent compound prior to circulating systemically" 

RU keeps its anti-androgen property, even after passing the skin and going systemic.

Lothar99 answer:-

CB-03-01 is an androgen receptor blocker, meaning that it will bind to androgen receptors and therefore prevent other things from binding (mostly we are concerned with DHT binding). There are other medications that have this method of action, but what makes CB-03-01 unique is that it is quickly metabolized when it enters the bloodstream. Ideally, you apply the CB-03-01 to the scalp, and as it passes through the skin, it binds to the androgen receptors there. Any CB-03-01 that passes all the way through to the blood will metabolize into a substance that doesn't block androgen receptors. Because it is so quickly metabolized, the CB-03-01 should never reaches other parts of the body where it would cause androgen related side effects.

----------


## The Dark Knight

Does anyone know where to get ethanol in the UK? It seems everclear alcohol is illegal here and there is no way to import it

----------


## HARIRI

> Does anyone know where to get ethanol in the UK? It seems everclear alcohol is illegal here and there is no way to import it


 That is the biggest challenge. Where to get Ethanol/PG online? Unfortunately MPB Treatments looks like they are a rip off as COB984 ordered several bottles from them but didn't get any while his credit card got deducted already. I hope one member may become kind enough to search online for them.

----------


## moore

> Lothar99 answer:-
> 
> CB-03-01 is an androgen receptor blocker, meaning that it will bind to androgen receptors and therefore prevent other things from binding (mostly we are concerned with DHT binding). There are other medications that have this method of action, but what makes CB-03-01 unique is that it is quickly metabolized when it enters the bloodstream. Ideally, you apply the CB-03-01 to the scalp, and as it passes through the skin, it binds to the androgen receptors there. Any CB-03-01 that passes all the way through to the blood will metabolize into a substance that doesn't block androgen receptors. Because it is so quickly metabolized, the CB-03-01 should never reaches other parts of the body where it would cause androgen related side effects.


 This is one of the best and clearer explanation I've ever read.
Wonder if someone has ever raised the question: DHT blockers would stop DHT from miniaturizing follicles not already fallen to the vellus stage (right or wrong?). 
What about the already vellus ones?
I know maybe this is not the right thread where to ask..sorry.
Every time I read about this very subject I'm frightened by words such as 'fibrosis':

http://www.hairloss-research.org/Lin...osis11-10.html

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/m...&threadid=6316

http://www.*****************/interact...an-be-reverted

----------


## Avacfc

> Does anyone know where to get ethanol in the UK? It seems everclear alcohol is illegal here and there is no way to import it


 I live in the uk and had a hard time finding ethanol or a high percent alcohol since its not sold above 40% here. However i dug deep and found a 95% polish vodka for 30 quid online. Not sure if im aloud to give out website on here

----------


## doke

> I live in the uk and had a hard time finding ethanol or a high percent alcohol since its not sold above 40% here. However i dug deep and found a 95% polish vodka for 30 quid online. Not sure if im aloud to give out website on here


 i found same problem had to buy polish vodka and its expensive.

----------


## HARIRI

> i found same problem had to buy polish vodka and its expensive.


 I think the only way to get it is from MPBtreatments, they sell each bottle of ethanol/PG for $7 only. My forum friend COB984 received a confirmation of shipping from them just today. I hope he could share more info about it. Seems like they are legit but slow!!!

----------


## The Dark Knight

> I live in the uk and had a hard time finding ethanol or a high percent alcohol since its not sold above 40&#37; here. However i dug deep and found a 95% polish vodka for 30 quid online. Not sure if im aloud to give out website on here


 Yeah, its ridiculous how hard it is to find here but thanks! I searched 95% vodka online and I think I've found it

----------


## doke

Now guys reflecting on cb 03-01 a drug that may be helpful for acne and alopecia androgenica but i remember this antiandrogen talk for many years with what some called the mother of all antiandrogens ru58841 now we have some access to it with a ready made mpb treatments formula and kanes powder its gone off the boil so i like others went out and bought some powder and also mpbs ready made is it a miracle no its not and this maybe the same hard to get hold of and is it the right mix we will not be sure until cosmo makes it available.
Talk has it that for acne tretinoin  is a better treatment and we know that cannot be used if you go out in the sun so best apply at night spectral dnc L has it in its formula and also dr lewenbergs famous 2% minoxidil+tretinoin formula that has many regrow there hair on.
I Think it better to wait until the hype dies down and see if anyone regrows hair back with cb i hope it does work.

----------


## Avacfc

> Yeah, its ridiculous how hard it is to find here but thanks! I searched 95% vodka online and I think I've found it


 http://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-15105.aspx
This is what i got

----------


## hellouser

> http://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-15105.aspx
> This is what i got


 That will work  :Smile:

----------


## HARIRI

Here you go Guys, I got this link from the Kane Shop:-

http://anageninc.com/carriers.html

They do have both:-

PHARMA GRADE 98% ETHANOL 50ML...$7 Only

PHARMA GRADE 98% ETHANOL 100ML... $11 Only

 :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:

----------


## nliyan25

Hellouser, is it normal to be losing about 50 hairs a day on RU after two weeks? Should this decrease with time? Also, is RU supposed to thicken existing hair that is thin?

----------


## doke

> Here you go Guys, I got this link from the Kane Shop:-
> 
> http://anageninc.com/carriers.html
> 
> They do have both:-
> 
> PHARMA GRADE 98% ETHANOL 50ML...$7 Only
> 
> PHARMA GRADE 98% ETHANOL 100ML... $11 Only


 many thanks hariri can you use kb solution for cb?

----------


## hellouser

> Hellouser, is it normal to be losing about 50 hairs a day on RU after two weeks? Should this decrease with time? Also, is RU supposed to thicken existing hair that is thin?


 50 hairs a day without treatments is on the low end of shedding. I think its more or less normal, although hard to say because, how do you know if the 50 hairs a day you lose are being replenished with new hairs?

In order to maintain density, you need to regrow the same amount.

----------


## The Dark Knight

> http://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-15105.aspx
> This is what i got


 Great, got mine ordered





> Here you go Guys, I got this link from the Kane Shop:-
> 
> http://anageninc.com/carriers.html
> 
> They do have both:-
> 
> PHARMA GRADE 98% ETHANOL 50ML...$7 Only
> 
> PHARMA GRADE 98% ETHANOL 100ML... $11 Only


 This is even better, I'll look into getting that next time depending on shipping

----------


## PatientlyWaiting

> Hellouser, is it normal to be losing about 50 hairs a day on RU after two weeks? Should this decrease with time? Also, is RU supposed to thicken existing hair that is thin?


 The average person sheds 50-150 hairs a day. It's just that a person who has MPB, does not get those hairs back as strong, and every time the hair falls out it comes back weaker unless you're treating your hair loss.

----------


## Cob984

Hey Hellouser hows it going on the CB man?
Uv been on it the longest?
Anything?
Shedding? hair health?

----------


## doke

it does not work period right just use minoxidil and az acid my hair is regrowing this experimental shite does zilch these twits will get you into wasting money and also the bald truth forum has become a click of people that beleave some of this hype.

----------


## Cob984

i cant use minox, im badly allergic, heart palpitations etc

And RU works very well, its just that it also gives me fked up weight sides just like fin

----------


## hellouser

> it does not work period right just use minoxidil and az acid my hair is regrowing this experimental shite does zilch these twits will get you into wasting money and also the bald truth forum has become a click of people that beleave some of this hype.


 That's a very misleading comment. Even some of the finasteride dickriders would agree with me that treatments can take 6+ months before results are seen. How would any of us (me especially) know if CB works or not? I've been on it for only 3-4 weeks and with what we can most likely assume is also the wrong/weak vehicle (ethanol/PG). So why would you throw the treatment under the bus before knowing what it can or can't do before having any proof of that?

----------


## Cob984

so hellouser ? not doing well on the cb then?

----------


## hellouser

> so hellouser ? not doing well on the cb then?


 It hasnt even been a full month, man! Come on!!!

I didn't see results on 100mg of RU until 3 months in. Give it time. I'm not expecting results this fast.

----------


## Cob984

dude trust me i want this to work, i have some on the way,
With Ru i can tell its working cause straight away my hair has more life strenght, stands up when i comb it rather than wimp around,

How does your hair feel after a cb application,

Are you atleast maintaining ground using only cb?

----------


## win200

> That's a very misleading comment. Even some of the finasteride dickriders would agree with me that treatments can take 6+ months before results are seen. How would any of us (me especially) know if CB works or not? I've been on it for only 3-4 weeks and with what we can most likely assume is also the wrong/weak vehicle (ethanol/PG). So why would you throw the treatment under the bus before knowing what it can or can't do before having any proof of that?


 Re: the vehicle, I'm also doing a 50/50 everclear/PG mix.  Is this basically the best we have at this point, or is there an alternative?

----------


## hellouser

> Re: the vehicle, I'm also doing a 50/50 everclear/PG mix.  Is this basically the best we have at this point, or is there an alternative?


 DMI/DMSO, Oleyl/PG and Ethanol/PG.

I've tried Oleyl but it burns the scalp and causes incredible amount of shedding.

----------


## win200

> DMI/DMSO, Oleyl/PG and Ethanol/PG.
> 
> I've tried Oleyl but it burns the scalp and causes incredible amount of shedding.


 Well, that sounds just delightful.  I assume ethanol is the same as the pharmaceutical grade product that someone posted above?

----------


## clandestine

Any idea if I can dissolve RU in Rubbing Alcohol (95% ethanol) for the Ethanol portion of eth/pg?

----------


## doke

Im saying this because most of these experimental and unproved by human safety trials are just hearsay because there is not much proof to back them up as yet as in psi by neosil  it was said to regrow hair in under a month and some did get hold of it many years ago but the next batch they brought it was no good and recently labpe is selling psi in 200 and 400mgs and again some tried it but it did nothing thats the problem whatever we buy even from kane which i have brought from there is no proof that that powder will regrow any hair.
Now with propecia and even dutasteride and minoxidil it has been produced by a drug company with many years testing and some good proof they work by fda.
It is some of our responsability to say this as spencer says take these forum posts with a pinch of salt as there is a guy from hairlossfight that keeps putting up the same pics and he is on so many topicals that must cost him a fortune and i cannot see any improvment a couple he is on are capillogain and ru and pgd2 and for the life of me i cannot see any improvement infact habs on cg210 looks better than this guy on all these experimental shite.

----------


## doke

> Any idea if I can dissolve RU in Rubbing Alcohol (95% ethanol) for the Ethanol portion of eth/pg?


 I would not bother ive tried ru from kane and mpb treatments and i nealy lost all my hair that was nov 2012 and my hair is just about recovering with minox with az acid  and dutasteride and some biotin silica.

----------


## hellouser

> dude trust me i want this to work, i have some on the way,
> With Ru i can tell its working cause straight away my hair has more life strenght, stands up when i comb it rather than wimp around,
> 
> How does your hair feel after a cb application,
> 
> Are you atleast maintaining ground using only cb?


 Meh, hair after any applications feels like crap; its a liquid topical application that makes my hair wet and look thin. Once it dries it looks thicker but only because of the leftover substance in it. But since I wash my hair in the mornings this makes zero of an impact and my hair. I apply my topicals (CB and Minox) between 6pm and 1am.

----------


## win200

> I would not bother ive tried ru from kane and mpb treatments and i nealy lost all my hair that was nov 2012 and my hair is just about recovering with minox with az acid  and dutasteride and some biotin silica.


 I think this is probably an outlier experience.

----------


## HARIRI

> Meh, hair after any applications feels like crap; its a liquid topical application that makes my hair wet and look thin. Once it dries it looks thicker but only because of the leftover substance in it. But since I wash my hair in the mornings this makes zero of an impact and my hair. I apply my topicals (CB and Minox) between 6pm and 1am.


 Hellouser, since its your thread could you please tell me how do you store the CB powder? For example I would receive 1g of CB and will use 0.25mg as a start, where will I store the balance in order to use it again? I dont think the freezer is a good option as it will get moist and sticky?  :Confused:

----------


## win200

> Hellouser, since its your thread could you please tell me how do you store the CB powder? For example I would receive 1g of CB and will use 0.25mg as a start, where will I store the balance in order to use it again? I dont think the freezer is a good option as it will get moist and sticky?


 I keep mine in the freezer.  If you keep it sealed in bags (Kane ships in two bags plus a pouch; I just keep it in those) it won't get moist/sticky--it'll just stay very cold.

----------


## pat

Hellouser

I noticed from a post on *** Forums that you're from TO.. I'm pretty close, and I was just wondering if you've had any sort of problems with Canada customs when ordering from Kane?

----------


## hellouser

> Hellouser
> 
> I noticed from a post on *** Forums that you're from TO.. I'm pretty close, and I was just wondering if you've had any sort of problems with Canada customs when ordering from Kane?


 None! CB came in under a week  :Smile:

----------


## thatkidd

Hell...It would be really nice if you created a complete users guide to CB thread. There is the CB thread which wasn't created by you and your info is spread in there.

The RU thread has some information on your CB, but so hard to find with so many pages.

Honestly, I would LOVE if you got a sticky where you and only you could post into it telling us your vehicle, results, etc. Maybe talk to a mod about that? That would be great.

So with CB it sounds like you aren't using Oleyl anymore and are just using everclear and PG? What mix? Thanks man.

----------


## hellouser

> Hell...It would be really nice if you created a complete users guide to CB thread. There is the CB thread which wasn't created by you and your info is spread in there.
> 
> The RU thread has some information on your CB, but so hard to find with so many pages.
> 
> Honestly, I would LOVE if you got a sticky where you and only you could post into it telling us your vehicle, results, etc. Maybe talk to a mod about that? That would be great.
> 
> So with CB it sounds like you aren't using Oleyl anymore and are just using everclear and PG? What mix? Thanks man.


 I nearly got my ass handed to me by the mods before and put me into moderation mode, essentially all my comments would get approved before posted. I don't think I'll get that kind of privilege although it would certainly be nice to at least have the ability to edit my comments as I've thought about my guide thread and log thread being updated on the FIRST page rather than continually adding more all over the place and confusing readers. Sticky threads could easily be made but I dont think something like a 'How To Guide' deserves more prominence over other developing news. I think that aspect is fine, but updating a thread's first entry would make things so much easier to follow for readers.

----------


## hellouser

****update***

I've made a 6 day batch of CB at 1ml per application and around 24mg of CB per 1ml. I used up around 144mg in total for the 6 days. We'll see if this helps with shedding.

----------


## DesperateOne

> ****update***
> 
> I've made a 6 day batch of CB at 1ml per application and around 24mg of CB per 1ml. I used up around 144mg in total for the 6 days. We'll see if this helps with shedding.


 Maybe that will do the opposite, looking at your recent pics I noticed your hair is super thin, most likely those follicles are destined to jump ship. So I would not be surprised if that happens, but you need to stay consistent.

Hellouser, how would you feel in becoming the new Joe from Staten Island? If he passes away, I think you should call in and fill in for him.

----------


## hellouser

> Hellouser, how would you feel in becoming the new Joe from Staten Island? If he passes away, I think you should call in and fill in for him.


 Eh.... I'd rather have hair.

----------


## doke

I transferred to using lipogain 5% minoxidil combined with oral avodart 0.5mgs a day and noticed when i did not use either within a few days hair loss was noticed in drain and when returning to the treatment next day zero hair in drain i am also on oral silica and biotin.
I notice lipogaine is much better to use than plain rogaine as it does have dht inhibitors in the formula.

----------


## Jcm800

Doke, did your gp prescribe you avodart for prostate issues? Just curious, as I'm seeing my gp this week, not sure if he'll suggest the same for me.

----------


## doke

hi jc yes my gp has me on it due to my age and waterworks problems although i did have to buy it before and have used up to 2.5mgs in the past but due to cost had to go back to 0.5mg which still lowers dht more than finasteride and also as you may know it is a type one and two blocker.

----------


## Jcm800

> hi jc yes my gp has me on it due to my age and waterworks problems although i did have to buy it before and have used up to 2.5mgs in the past but due to cost had to go back to 0.5mg which still lowers dht more than finasteride and also as you may know it is a type one and two blocker.


 Thanks doke, I'm having to get up at night to pee and it's peeing me off,  it sure that'll qualify my for the same treatment, have to see what he says. 

Do you have any sides from it? It's a potent drug dude. Think I'd be scared to take it if he prescribes it.

----------


## Jcm800

> Thanks doke, I'm having to get up at night to pee and it's peeing me off,  it sure that'll qualify my for the same treatment, have to see what he says. 
> 
> Do you have any sides from it? It's a potent drug dude. Think I'd be scared to take it if he prescribes it.


 Jeez sorry for typos in last reply, too late to correct. Anyway  it should have said - not sure if my issues will qualify me for that treatment *

----------


## doke

hi jc i have been on it quite a while and no side effects and just had a psa test with my gp and all is normal which is good to know i do notice drier skin on scalp and face which has helped with my acne.
I was scared of taking finasteride years ago and dutas but touch wood im lucky to have had none although you would need to ask your gp if you wanted to start a family.
My gp wanted me to use flowmax with dutas but that did give me side effects big time a very painful jaw and tooth ache which can be an effect of flowmax so he told me just to use avodart.
I did buy some avodart called dutas a few years ago on an online pharmacy with no prescription and im sure it was a fake drug as i opened one and it was a grey cream and avodart is a liquid in a capsule.
There was talk on another forum of a guy using one 0.5mg cap a day mixed in a small amount of aloe vera pure gel and was said it turned white when mixed and  applied as a topical   he got his hair back again but im not sure if its any better than oral i cannot remember if he used minox as well.
There is a company selling a topical finasteride and dutasteride which i was going to try it is a 60ml bottle of liquid dutas 0.5mg per ml and its about $55 so not too expensive.

----------


## Cob984

So hellouser, your hair is worsening on the cb?
i thought you said shedding is down

----------


## HARIRI

I posted a post this morning but wasnt posted!!! Anyways, my question to Hellouser, you have made a 6 day batch of CB at 1ml per application and around 24mg of CB per 1ml. So that means 2.4%? Why did you choose this percentage particularly? 

Also some members added 0.6g to a 60ml bottle in advance which 60 days supply! Is it fine or the efficiency may get less with time? What is the maximum number of days we can do without losing CB efficiency? 

I once read that RU should not be pre mixed 14 days before! How about CB? Thanks Hellouser. I appreciate you contribution in this Hair Loss Community.

----------


## Jcm800

Doke - thanks for the reply, I'll get shouted at for hijacking this thread before long. Thanks for sharing tho mate, and good luck with the treatment. 

Ps do you feel the avodart has helped with your hair?

----------


## hellouser

> I posted a post this morning but wasnt posted!!! Anyways, my question to Hellouser, you have made a 6 day batch of CB at 1ml per application and around 24mg of CB per 1ml. So that means 2.4%? Why did you choose this percentage particularly?


 I kind of got careless with how much I weighed on my scale, it was too much and by that point I was like 'meh'. Also, my Testors bottle can only hold about 7ml and I didn't want to over do it. So I decided on 6. Plus, I wanted to see if the extra concentration would be beneficial (so far, I can't really say it is).

I know others are planning on using 50mg/1ml.. 5% of CB should be pretty damn effective. Cosmo apparently may suggest twice daily applications. Thats a bit unsettling.

Also some members added 0.6g to a 60ml bottle in advance which 60 days supply! Is it fine or the efficiency may get less with time? What is the maximum number of days we can do without losing CB efficiency? 




> I once read that RU should not be pre mixed 14 days before! How about CB? Thanks Hellouser. I appreciate you contribution in this Hair Loss Community.


 I dont know who said that, but... I'm fairly certain its shelf life should be at least 14 days. In any case, I'm only making 6 days batches, well under the 14 day suggestion.

----------


## yan

> Cosmo apparently may suggest twice daily applications.


 Where did you hear that? I really hope not. I would do that for my hair, but it would suck. 

I know there a possible side effects and long-term-risks of fin, but I`m feeling great and its so damn easy to take a pill twice weekly, I would hate to apply something twice daily.

----------


## thatkidd

> Where did you hear that? I really hope not. I would do that for my hair, but it would suck. 
> 
> I know there a possible side effects and long-term-risks of fin, but I`m feeling great and its so damn easy to take a pill twice weekly, I would hate to apply something twice daily.


 Must be nice, I take fin every day and it's stopped doing anything over the past 5 years.

HELL, what is your CB vehicle right now?? I'm not sure what to mix..I have PG and Everclear for RU...

----------


## win200

Wow, a 5% CB solution?  That's really expensive.  You'll blow through that shit in no time.

----------


## doke

> Doke - thanks for the reply, I'll get shouted at for hijacking this thread before long. Thanks for sharing tho mate, and good luck with the treatment. 
> 
> Ps do you feel the avodart has helped with your hair?


 JC i think thak dutasteride is the one that keeps my hair and at 56 its not too bad but if i had started when i was about 30 i think i would in conjuntion with the minox we have available today had even kept all my hair,but the answer is yes to dutas and i think its even better than any of the ru and other experiemental stuff at this time the thing you have to look at is the trials with the twins one on nothing the other on avodart and it was amazing results the only thing i would say is nothing we have at this time is a miracle and with finasteride and avodart its still a very slow process of recovery and may take more than a year if your mpb is advanced but some do get results in six months or less when combined with minoxidil as said im using lipogaine and x5 hair laser seeing very fine regrowth in bald frontal areas but slow progress.

----------


## Jcm800

Thanks doke, I'm 44,not sure if I'm too 'young' to be having prostate issues, but, I'm definitely having night time awakenings due to a full bloody bladder two or three times thru the night. 

I've seen the twins blog, quite amazing. I'll see what the quack says mate..

----------


## doke

> Thanks doke, I'm 44,not sure if I'm too 'young' to be having prostate issues, but, I'm definitely having night time awakenings due to a full bloody bladder two or three times thru the night. 
> 
> I've seen the twins blog, quite amazing. I'll see what the quack says mate..


 ask to have a pee pressure test its not torture you just pee into a bucket that tests your flow and if you also dribble after peeing a lot then you could ask to have dutas.

----------


## Jcm800

> ask to have a pee pressure test its not torture you just pee into a bucket that tests your flow and if you also dribble after peeing a lot then you could ask to have dutas.


 Cheers doke, yeah I do dribble sometimes, hard to say if it's prostate or not, gp should know tho eh

----------


## doke

> Cheers doke, yeah I do dribble sometimes, hard to say if it's prostate or not, gp should know tho eh


 hi jc ask to have a pressure test i had to go to a nhs clinic to have mine.

----------


## Jcm800

> hi jc ask to have a pressure test i had to go to a nhs clinic to have mine.


 Thanks doke, too late mate just seen him. I've gotta have a full blood screening, he's not convinced it's prostate, and suggested I wait for results before thinking about fin etc, which is a good move.

----------


## doke

yes jc a psa test i was lucky  my gp knows as well about mpb and when i asked him about finast to dutas he said i could go onto avodart as finast did not help with my mpb.

----------


## doke

i forgot to say that with prostate problems check your family history as it can run in families cancer that is and even if the psa blood test is normal as you get over 40 finast or avodart may help prevent future prostate problems im not sure about the natural dht products because i was told a few years ago that even if they work you may need to take a lot of the product which maybe not as great as a small dose of 1mg finast and 0.5mg of avodart.

----------


## Jcm800

Thanks doke, my dad passed away aged 50 sadly, no idea if he suffered prostate issues. 

I'm being tested for, thyroid, diabetes, psa, testosterone, quite a few things. 

My gp isn't pro hair retention, he has loads himself, git. 

But, if my psa is dodgy, and if he needs to put the rubber glove on and check prostate size, maybe if he doesn't suggest Avo, maybe I could. 

I'd still be scared taking it mind you.

----------


## Cob984

someone needs to setup Private messages on this forum
this is fkin ridiculous

----------


## Jcm800

Tough, there ain't private messaging and doke has been helping me. 

(thanks to everyone else that hasn't moaned, appreciate it)

----------


## doke

jc there are things in life that may frighten us but taking a small amount of 0.5mg a day avodart should not be one of them i know there are the anti hair loss drugs guys and the guys talking about experimental drugs that come out of china and yes i own up i have bought various powders from these sources but for one would you rather take a med that has been in use many years and had thousends of people trials before unleashing on the public than taking these experimental untested drugs that we do not know what they may do to humans and thats why the drug companies do the many years trials to give us some peace of mind that they will be fairly safe and we do know that even these can cause some side effects in some of us so nothing is 100%.
But for me avodart i take along with silica,biotin and some other vits at the same time every day and hair loss has ceased and i as said before am getting very fine white hairs and some existing hair i had already is turning darker and growing slightly quicker.
Also i have changed as said from ordenary minox to lipogaine and i have had some pimples again which i apply hydrocortizone gel to scald before minox once a day at night and thats cured that problem.

----------


## doke

> Thanks doke, my dad passed away aged 50 sadly, no idea if he suffered prostate issues. 
> 
> I'm being tested for, thyroid, diabetes, psa, testosterone, quite a few things. 
> 
> My gp isn't pro hair retention, he has loads himself, git. 
> 
> But, if my psa is dodgy, and if he needs to put the rubber glove on and check prostate size, maybe if he doesn't suggest Avo, maybe I could. 
> 
> I'd still be scared taking it mind you.


 sorry to hear about your dad dying so young mine died when he was 64 he worked everyday of his life was in raf in second world war and i can never remember him taking a sick day off work in his life very sad.
But anyway you can ask your gp for avodart but be wary of saying its for hair loss as you know its not been reg for that at this time although my gp did look it up in his little drug bible when i mentioned hair loss and it did give some info on hair loss trials.
But concentrate more of the dribble and say thay you tried finast and it did not help so please can you let me try avodart if he says no try another gp in the practice as i did have to badger mine to let me try it.

----------


## Jcm800

It's okay doke, was a long time ago.. Shame about your dad too, mine was also in RAF but not in ww2. 

My GP knows I haven't tried Fin, but I have asked him about it.. He'll sus me out if I ask for Avo I reckon, but if he suspects enlarged prostate then I'll ask him about it I think. 

Thanks for your replies mate.

----------


## nliyan25

Hey guys,

Just an update, I've been using RU58841 since the end of August and I am still losing about 40 strands of hair after I apply Ru58841. That's actually not bad considering how much I used to shed. However, if I forget to apply it one day, I suffer the next day with increased shedding  :Smile: . When I cut my hair more than a month ago, my hair was thicker. Hopefully, when I get my next hair cut my hair will be even thicker.

----------


## simba

> Hey guys,
> 
> Just an update, I've been using RU58841 since the end of August and I am still losing about 40 strands of hair after I apply Ru58841. That's actually not bad considering how much I used to shed. However, if I forget to apply it one day, I suffer the next day with increased shedding . When I cut my hair more than a month ago, my hair was thicker. Hopefully, when I get my next hair cut my hair will be even thicker.


 How much have you been using per day?

----------


## Jazz1

> Hey guys,
> 
> Just an update, I've been using RU58841 since the end of August and I am still losing about 40 strands of hair after I apply Ru58841. That's actually not bad considering how much I used to shed. However, if I forget to apply it one day, I suffer the next day with increased shedding . When I cut my hair more than a month ago, my hair was thicker. Hopefully, when I get my next hair cut my hair will be even thicker.


 Shedding is a good sign, a guy on hairlosshelp has documented pictures he shed a Lot now you need to see his amazing growth and temple growth from using RU.

----------


## MrBlonde

> Shedding is a good sign, a guy on hairlosshelp has documented pictures he shed a Lot now you need to see his amazing growth and temple growth from using RU.


 Have you got a link?  I ask because I am coming to the end of my second batch of RU and I have lost lots of ground.  My crown and temples have lost a lot of hair and what is left is very thin.  There is no sign of regrowth.

----------


## nliyan25

Simba, I'm using about .9 grams a day. I might start using .75 a day. I used rogaine 5% for a year, and I lost easily at LEAST 100 strands whenever I would apply it and I would apply it twice a day. I never thickened any existing hair or grew back any lost hair outside of some long and super-thin strands (very, very few). RU58841 really does seem to be working, at least based on the first hair cut I had. Hopefully, when I cut my hair this time, I'll notice a bigger difference. 

I am also curious as to the proof that shedding is good.

----------


## inbrugge

This is out of the blue, but are there any studies on RU? Was it discovered accidentally or what? 

I know the story about CB a bit, and I'm aware there has been research and trials going on. But nothing about RU?

I'm against most antiandrogens, especially oral ones. I'm more inclined towards RU because it's topical. But I'm still skeptical about side effects (and pricing).

Really, can anyone tell me why RU is safer than Fin/Dut apart from it being topical?

----------


## lilpauly

> Simba, I'm using about .9 grams a day. I might start using .75 a day. I used rogaine 5% for a year, and I lost easily at LEAST 100 strands whenever I would apply it and I would apply it twice a day. I never thickened any existing hair or grew back any lost hair outside of some long and super-thin strands (very, very few). RU58841 really does seem to be working, at least based on the first hair cut I had. Hopefully, when I cut my hair this time, I'll notice a bigger difference. 
> 
> I am also curious as to the proof that shedding is good.


 


> This is out of the blue, but are there any studies on RU? Was it discovered accidentally or what? 
> 
> I know the story about CB a bit, and I'm aware there has been research and trials going on. But nothing about RU?
> 
> I'm against most antiandrogens, especially oral ones. I'm more inclined towards RU because it's topical. But I'm still skeptical about side effects (and pricing).
> 
> Really, can anyone tell me why RU is safer than Fin/Dut apart from it being topical?


 Bro it's a experimental drug . Elder posted studied on hlh I will find them about ru . Cb is safter but we don't have a vehicle . Asc j9 is another anti androgen without a vehicle . Both are in trials now

----------


## doke

> This is out of the blue, but are there any studies on RU? Was it discovered accidentally or what? 
> 
> I know the story about CB a bit, and I'm aware there has been research and trials going on. But nothing about RU?
> 
> I'm against most antiandrogens, especially oral ones. I'm more inclined towards RU because it's topical. But I'm still skeptical about side effects (and pricing).
> 
> Really, can anyone tell me why RU is safer than Fin/Dut apart from it being topical?


 RU58841 was discovered by french rousell drug company and although it had trials for alopecia and was said to be none systemic and safe did not come to anything i think it was also said it was 100% dht blocker like topical flutamide but without the systemic side effects.
I remember on one forum it was called the mother of all antiandrogens but i think that the mix and the half life of ru is the problem some batches worked and some did not and due to that and of course another company postraken took over ru which i think is based in scotland they dropped the trials and no one knows why was it money or there just not interested in alopecia.

----------


## Atum

So is it safe to say that Rogaine doesn't work, but that it actually makes your hair worse?
I've read multiple bad posts regarding Rogaine and i am using it on and off, cause i'm not sure about it.

----------


## win200

> So is it safe to say that Rogaine doesn't work, but that it actually makes your hair worse?
> I've read multiple bad posts regarding Rogaine and i am using it on and off, cause i'm not sure about it.


 Not safe to say that.  Rogaine works for a majority of users.  Some people get only marginal benefits from it, but most people see SOME positive results.  It's very unusual for Rogaine to make you worse off than you were before you started using it.  

Also, DON'T use it off and on.  It only works if you use it on a consistent, steady basis.  Off-and-on use could exacerbate your problem; Rogaine usually causes a shed when you first start using it, as the weaker hairs fall out and grow back stronger.  If you're going back and forth, you could be causing the weak hairs to fall out without providing them the nourishment needed to grow back stronger.  Use it or don't use it, but make a firm decision.

----------


## Imalmostbald

RU works great for me and at 200mg it really thicked up my hair to where aga all started. It is really a beast of a treatment.

----------


## nliyan25

> RU works great for me and at 200mg it really thicked up my hair to where aga all started. It is really a beast of a treatment.


 Imalmostbald, is it safe to go above 100 mg? In Hellouser's guide, he suggests never to go above 100 mg, I thought.

----------


## Imalmostbald

> Imalmostbald, is it safe to go above 100 mg? In Hellouser's guide, he suggests never to go above 100 mg, I thought.


 Evaluate such things for yourself. I myself did up to 250-300 mg. I think hellouser mentioned not going above 100mg because it is not probably more favourable than doing 200mg. You surely do increase anti androgenic side effects with a bigger dosage your going. Another guy from a forum did upwards 400mg if im not mistaken, but said it did not differ that much from 100mg. 

I got long hair so thats why i also use more to ensure a minimum of 100mg gets in contact with my scalp.

----------


## Atum

> Not safe to say that.  Rogaine works for a majority of users.  Some people get only marginal benefits from it, but most people see SOME positive results.  It's very unusual for Rogaine to make you worse off than you were before you started using it.  
> 
> Also, DON'T use it off and on.  It only works if you use it on a consistent, steady basis.  Off-and-on use could exacerbate your problem; Rogaine usually causes a shed when you first start using it, as the weaker hairs fall out and grow back stronger.  If you're going back and forth, you could be causing the weak hairs to fall out without providing them the nourishment needed to grow back stronger.  Use it or don't use it, but make a firm decision.


 I only used it on the spot where some vellus hair is popping out, in the hope it starts growing again. Never used it on my 'normal' hair before, for the reason that i don't want a shed on the front.

----------


## nliyan25

> Evaluate such things for yourself. I myself did up to 250-300 mg. I think hellouser mentioned not going above 100mg because it is not probably more favourable than doing 200mg. You surely do increase anti androgenic side effects with a bigger dosage your going. Another guy from a forum did upwards 400mg if im not mistaken, but said it did not differ that much from 100mg. 
> 
> I got long hair so thats why i also use more to ensure a minimum of 100mg gets in contact with my scalp.


 Imalmostbald, is it normal to have an increase in shedding if you increase the mg of RU used? I moved up from 80 mg to 150 mg and I think I noticed an increase in shedding.

----------


## doke

> Many of you have seen me post and boast about RU and many of you have also inquired about my progress... well, here is my log.
> 
> I noticed my hair going bad.. I mean really bad back in around March of 2011. I didn't notice it thin out or anything, but rather my hair line go waaaay back than what it used to be. I noticed this after I was at a club with friends and had some pictures of myself taken. The lighting on my face was rather harsh and it exposed a lot of scalp behind the hairline which made the hairline look higher than it actually is. This is where my life started going downhill..... its when I realized I looked ****ing weird and it was my hair. By this time I was already an NW2-3, but I never really took much notice into my hairline.. I didn't care about it before, I thought I looked normal (I mean I still do, but society is full of shithead assholes so no, by their standards I dont look normal).
> 
> *February, 2011* - Before Regimen
> So I started reading about things that can be done. I learned about Saw Palmetto, Nizoral, Finasteride, hair transplants and Replicel. I read about Finasteride castrating men and giving many side effects and it was a complete write off. It still is and its a dangerous drug which no man should take. I'm not saying I'd take it away from those who are already on it with results, but Finasteride is pure bullshit. My first line of defense? Saw Palmetto, and even with that I was hesitant as I ready about mild effects. But the bad breathe issue was the worst problem. It subsided eventually though.
> 
> Here's what my hair looked like then (these are from a club, so apologies for the crappy quality). Mind you, I used to use a good but 'wet' product called Bedhead by Tigi. This makes hair look quite thin as it climps hair real close together, hence it looking thin below.
> 
> ...


 Hi hell i am guessing you are in your 30s and my hair loss was like yours and minoxidil+progestorone 4% seemed to help and after six months my hair was quite thick but not as much as i would like so i wonder if combining cb or ru with minox and progestorone would be a good thing to try.
I must say we must thankyou for your pics and info thats a great help to what may and maynot work the shedding at times seems the same as irish pride on the other forums he had on and off great results with minox ans ru but at times massive sheds and then totall regrowth its terrible this affliction and even though many know im in my 50s now im still seeking something to regrow my hair im lucky i still have some left but for me since my late 20s its been devistating.
Have you tried topical spironolactone with minox or tretinoin.

----------


## Amercancer

Is it ok to mix RU and rogaine all over top of scalp?

----------


## Amercancer

I just received my RU, and a bottle of ethanol 98%. I also ordered a bottle that's H20, Ethanol, Cremophor RH410, Luviquay FC 550. What should I go whith his and which and tell me if I need anything else. Please help me put this together in the best way. Thanx will appreciate it.

----------


## doke

by the way has anyone got an email from mpb treatments they are saying they are soon restarting there products again.

----------


## strife91

> Is it ok to mix RU and rogaine all over top of scalp?


 Yeah mixing ur ru with rogaine should be fine

----------


## Jazz1

> by the way has anyone got an email from mpb treatments they are saying they are soon restarting there products again.


 It's joke, if people in past started using their products with success then for months they out stock, one would lose ground fast. I would never buy from them again souly based on their products being out of stock.

----------


## doke

> It's joke, if people in past started using their products with success then for months they out stock, one would lose ground fast. I would never buy from them again souly based on their products being out of stock.


 its been ureliable but im wondering was the company hit by negative remarks here and on other hair loss web sites as when i ordered from them when they set up the company i got my products quickly in uk im not sure who started the company but i thought it was that guy on you tube vid that tells you how to make ru am i right or wrong.
Anyone know why they have not been trading for a few months or is anyone from mpb here to answer questions, i will try and contact them for an answer.

----------


## lilpauly

The person in the video is in med school now. I suggest every1 use 98% ethanol for ru !!!

----------


## strife91

Doesn't 70:30 ratio work well ?

----------


## hellouser

> Doesn't 70:30 ratio work well ?


 It is what most people use. I've switched to 60/40 to slow down the drying time.

----------


## doke

does anyone know if mpb treatments was a sham company and who was behind it.

----------


## Atum

What is the best solution for RU? Was it P&G?

----------


## nliyan25

> It is what most people use. I've switched to 60/40 to slow down the drying time.


 Hellouser, just for clarification purposes, do you say not to use more than 100 mg of RU per day purely for side effect reasons? Could using 150 mg a day potentially increase the positive effects of RU (i.e. thicken thinning hair)?

----------


## hellouser

> Hellouser, just for clarification purposes, do you say not to use more than 100 mg of RU per day purely for side effect reasons? Could using 150 mg a day potentially increase the positive effects of RU (i.e. thicken thinning hair)?


 Everyone reacts differently and has a different tolerance. El Duterino on another forum used 400mg in one day just to test it out; he had no side effects. He claims 30mg (more or less) is effective enough for him.

I base it on keeping side effects to a minimum and not wasting your money either.

----------


## nliyan25

I accidentally left my Ru58841 powder sitting outside for about a day, should I be ok? I just put it back in the freezer.

----------


## doke

I think ru is not a miracle or cure for mpb as it seems to cause sheds like when starting minox but it does this in phases every few months  we need a cure not a crutch.

----------


## doke

we need to try something like dr cotsarelis pgd2 blocker which maybe available in a few years as it has regrown hair on mice which i know we have heard before but as it worked on every mouse they are confident enough to bring it to market on humans i also presume it has been used on humans as well by now.
The only problem is the scalp skin has to be roughed up or slightly damaged for the treatment to work and it does not mean using a cheese grater on your scalp and thats our problem what would we need to do or will the finished product not have to  have damaged skin for it to work.

----------


## lilpauly

> I accidentally left my Ru58841 powder sitting outside for about a day, should I be ok? I just put it back in the freezer.


 yes man its stable for 6 months at room temp

----------


## Jazz1

> I think ru is not a miracle or cure for mpb as it seems to cause sheds like when starting minox but it does this in phases every few months  we need a cure not a crutch.


 My personal view is if Fin fails due to up regulated androgens, Ru slightly higher dose works because you need to up the game from 1mg.

----------


## lilpauly

> I think ru is not a miracle or cure for mpb as it seems to cause sheds like when starting minox but it does this in phases every few months  we need a cure not a crutch.


 its not. dut is superior by far

----------


## doke

i have posted on the cb thread about mpb treatments it seems they must be reading our thoughts as i had an email today from them saying they too are suffering from hair loss and are restucturing there customer service and will be back again within next few weeks and as i do not want to dupicate the thread you will have to go to cb thread to read what they say on cb cream they will have to mix your own they say that they will give you instuctions on how to make it if you ask them as it seems you may have to heat it and keep it at a certain temp before mixing.
It seems a bit of a hassle to me though im using spiro cream myself and progestorone in minoxidil premixed.

----------


## nliyan25

Hellouser, currently I am washing my hair with shampoo every night before applying RU. Is this necessary, or is just rinsing your hair with water adequate?

----------


## nliyan25

Just a quick update on progress.

I have been on RU for about 3.5 months now and am shedding about 50 hairs a day, most of it after applying RU. Is this normal? Not really sure if my hair is getting thicker or not.

----------


## shredder

just for the record:

I started with 1 ml RU 5% (premixed from anagen) about 1.5 weeks ago. I apply it to the vertex and crown in the evening after showering my hair (with some decent water pressure), but without using shampoo. This is because I wash my hair with shampoo (nizoral once every 4 days and the nanogen and keratene shampoos in between) in the morning, don't want to wash it twice per day (because I don't want to dry out my skin), and because I have found that when I apply RU in the morning, my hair looks a bit greasy - this might be due to the fact that I use glycerin+ethanol instead of PG or KB solution.

so far no libido issues, no ED, nothing else worth mentioning - I may have a slight "feeling" in my inguinal area, but that may actually just be in my head because I know that something like that may occur when using antiandrogens (I had discomfort in this area while on fin, together with a massive libido loss as well as moderate ED).  

no results so far, still shedding quite a lot when I wash/shampoo my hair.

----------


## blmars french

Hi hellouser
alors ça donne quoi ? 6mois après?

----------


## blmars french

sorry,
then what happens? After 6 months?
actuellement quel est votre véhicule pour CB?

----------


## rdawg

Hey Hellouser how old are you man? Was your hairloss really aggressive or gradual?

----------


## doke

> just for the record:
> 
> I started with 1 ml RU 5% (premixed from anagen) about 1.5 weeks ago. I apply it to the vertex and crown in the evening after showering my hair (with some decent water pressure), but without using shampoo. This is because I wash my hair with shampoo (nizoral once every 4 days and the nanogen and keratene shampoos in between) in the morning, don't want to wash it twice per day (because I don't want to dry out my skin), and because I have found that when I apply RU in the morning, my hair looks a bit greasy - this might be due to the fact that I use glycerin+ethanol instead of PG or KB solution.
> 
> so far no libido issues, no ED, nothing else worth mentioning - I may have a slight "feeling" in my inguinal area, but that may actually just be in my head because I know that something like that may occur when using antiandrogens (I had discomfort in this area while on fin, together with a massive libido loss as well as moderate ED).  
> 
> no results so far, still shedding quite a lot when I wash/shampoo my hair.


 hi shredder do you know where anagen is based are they us and have you choose the ru 5% in kb solution? as im wondering which vehicle to chose.

----------


## doke

has anyone noticed that hellhouser had quite good results on 2% minoxidil with ru at 5% and then decided to go onto 5% minox which decimated his hair where most of us would have stopped using that and return to the 2%  minox.
Now to me he had the guts to carry on and got great regrowth later only to still not be satisfied and go onto cb.
Again many people on hairloss web sites have been trying for many years to get ru58841 just because the trials were successfull in stopping and regrowing hair with no systemic side effects and now cb comes along and it maybe as good or better than ru but im thinking that ru is still king but also a premixed ru is what many have wanted for many years.
I am surprised to be honest with the success hell had and then to abandon ru for cb.

----------


## blmars french

or buy reliable RU58841?
provider in the United States?
I'd like to try.
what is the best vehicle if I preprare all myself.
I am in France.

----------


## Jmf8

Wow, 43 pages and I made it. Lots of info to go through. Thanks, Hellouser for all the info.  I too refuse to take fin and didn't feel like I got any use from minox. I'm on a bunch of natural subs and just read that too much SP will make your libido go down. I'm on a 560mg dose. Plus Beta Sit and I think that brought my libido down. I was off of it for a couple weeks during xmas and things were up. I get enough beta in the avocados and nuts I eat, so may drop it again. I don't think my scalp likes the PG as it iches a lot. 

I used a combo of fin/minox years ago and then stopped after a while. The cost just wore me down after a while and I didn't believe it was doing much. Anyway, doesn't matter. I tried minox again recently for almost a year and was unhappy with results. At that time I went all natural and don't want toxic chems in my body, so I got all the natural sups for hair - saw palmetto, stinging nettle root, pumkin seed oil, beta sitosterol, biotin, some essential oils, cleanse with witch hazel, blah blah. It's hard to say right now what's working as it's been less than a year, and I've gotten off of the minox part way thru, but some people have said my hair seems thicker.

Anyhow, I want to add RU or CB into the program. But def don't want PG in there. I made a spray concoction that I've only started up last night that consists of pumpkin seed oil, apple cider vinegar, liquid SP, essential oils and witch hazel all combined for a nightly spray massage. I'm just wondering if this would be a good vehicle for the RU/CB to be added into. Pumpkin Seed Oil is supposed to be great and easily absorbed, right? I'm guessing I may be hit with the "try it and see" response. 

And for all of you who will hit me with the crap about natural being BS and unproven and blah blah. Save it, please. I've read it all. There's a lot of contradiction out there and anecdotal stuff and this is what I'm trying. I may add minox again, but without the PG. And personally, I think we should all stop buying the drugs so that the companies lose money and maybe develop something substantial for us and stop blocking new products from coming about. Merck probably buys companies developing something great and puts them out of business. That's the way big business works. 

Also, what's the update with your progress, hellouser? How's the CB going, I'm guessing it's been about/close-to 6 months by now.

----------


## doke

so i have just found out kane sells premade ruin 5% and 8% strengths which is sold by there europe company so thats great and they have kb solution for us in uk to make our own.

----------


## doke

What good service from kane date of order for premixed 5% ru in kb solution was ordered sat 8th feb and received today wed 12th feb and kouting purity paperwork in with order.
Just heard that the shipping price for uk has been reduced as well?

----------


## MightyMarc

Guys,

Awesome posts here!

Im reading also a lot about mixing RU with minox. Does anybody know whether there is a significant difference between mixing RU with minor or mixing RU with everclear en prop?

Dear regards, 

Marc

----------


## doke

holy cow i ordered more ru on wed 12th feb and received the premix on friday 14th even quicker than last order and also received a free 1gram ru packet i will be using 5% kirkland minox once per day at nights.

----------


## Jcm800

From the states doke?! Obviously is am amazed at the speed tho!!

----------


## doke

hi jc look at my new thread i have posted your thread and explained its in europe where the orders come from.

----------


## Borealis

Feeling ****ing depressed atm and seriously thinking of ordering the 5&#37; RU in K&B solution. Got a couple of questions though.

Has there actually been any success with it?
How would I apply it and how much should I apply how many times a day?
Also, can it be used with minox?

----------


## doke

> Feeling ****ing depressed atm and seriously thinking of ordering the 5% RU in K&B solution. Got a couple of questions though.
> 
> Has there actually been any success with it?
> How would I apply it and how much should I apply how many times a day?
> Also, can it be used with minox?


 Hi Borealis although not a cure ru58841 as i said at the new jcm thread check   that out  in cutting edge treatments, ru is an antiandrogen and a strong one better than topical flutamide in the trials but its also no miracle.
Its not an overnight or miracle in that sence, it should after applying 1.5 to 2mls a day of 5% ru begin to help with reducing dht at the follicle so you also may need to use a regrowth agent with it like minoxidil and for at least 4 to six months.
I do think if you are shiny bald then it may not do nothing but using a derma roller with it may or may or maynot help as there is no proof that will its worth a try.

----------


## lilpauly

> holy cow i ordered more ru on wed 12th feb and received the premix on friday 14th even quicker than last order and also received a free 1gram ru packet i will be using 5% kirkland minox once per day at nights.


 kirkland land minox is not the best vehicle,

----------


## strife91

Just dissolve in half ethanol then add the Kirkland minox

----------


## doke

> kirkland land minox is not the best vehicle,


 im not going to use kirkland as i am just using ru on its own i decided may use some revitalash hair conditioner i already have and maybe some procapil.
My ru is premixed in kb solution?

----------


## simba

Its been nearly a year, can you post updated pics? How has it been working?

----------


## hellouser

> Its been nearly a year, can you post updated pics? How has it been working?


 I've been more or less at the same density/hairline since starting treatments a few years ago. I've taken a break from everything in the last month or so. No RU, no CB or even Minox. Truthfully, sometimes I get the feeling that Minox has caused me to shed BADLY since starting but never having fully recovered.

I've looked at some photos of me from 8 years ago, and already back then I was an NW2. I'm an NW3 more or less today. It's clear as mud that my hair loss progressed a long time and either slowed down to a crawl or stopped dead in its tracks a long time ago. An HT right now would take me back to where I was pretty much a decade ago. I'm seriously considering an HT with 2,000 grafts or more and continue taking RU and CB without the damn minox. At the pace my hair loss has been going, it should hold me over for a long time to come... enough for a Histogen or Replicel treatment should the two lazy biotechs actually release a product (or better yet, Follica).

----------


## Seuxin

What do you think about CB hello'user ?

----------


## TwoInchCircle

I just ordered some CB from Kane and I can't wait to use it. 

So quick question: I know you're supposed to freeze the raw powder, but how do you store the pre-mixed solution? As in, after I've mixed CB with the vehicle, do I store it in the fridge or can I just store it in a cool dark place like my drawer for a week?

----------


## iwealth

> I'm seriously considering an HT with 2,000 grafts or more and continue taking RU and CB without the damn minox. At the pace my hair loss has been going, it should hold me over for a long time to come... enough for a Histogen or Replicel treatment should the two lazy biotechs actually release a product (or better yet, Follica).


 It's comforting to have this option in your back pocket. I'm committed to an HT once my temples recede to an uncomfortable point. Like you it should hold me over for years at my rate of recession. Pulling the trigger will be difficult though.

Now if I start seeing thinning in the crown, I'll be on finasteride the next day.

----------


## burtandernie

So they sell premade RU or CB in tested working vehicles? Are the chemicals pure? I dont know I would kind of worry about them going systemic since they are not well studied

----------


## lilpauly

> So they sell premade RU or CB in tested working vehicles? Are the chemicals pure? I dont know I would kind of worry about them going systemic since they are not well studied


 No working vehicle for cb as for ru I'm testing it again , last three batches were 99% , I'm also testing alldaychemist fin

----------


## robodoc

> Seeing how I've been on Saw Palmetto for a long time, or since the beginning (2 years ago) its evident that its done next to nothing given the recent shed and April, 2013's results.
> 
> I'm thinking of ditching saw palmetto to increase my libido. I left for Europe last year for 2 months and didnt take my saw palmetto pills with me. After about 1 months my libido was very high.
> 
> Oddly enough though, my libido was also REALLY high during December, 2012 while on saw palmetto. I suppose it could be RU though.


 
Looking at your pics you have a nice hair texture and your "new" fullness brings me some vicarious joy.  You know, there is that concealer called "Derm Match".  If you used a touch of the Medium brown in any remaining thin spots people will start telling you "what a thick head of hair you have" based on my experience.  I laugh, inside, when people tell me I have so much hair.
LOL.  

Nice posts.

----------


## JulioGP

hellouser, impressive results. congratulations.

I would like to ask you, you had a worsening of the results as from 2% to 5% Minoxidil. Why did you keep this concentration of 5% today?

----------


## nliyan25

> I've been more or less at the same density/hairline since starting treatments a few years ago. I've taken a break from everything in the last month or so. No RU, no CB or even Minox. Truthfully, sometimes I get the feeling that Minox has caused me to shed BADLY since starting but never having fully recovered.
> 
> I've looked at some photos of me from 8 years ago, and already back then I was an NW2. I'm an NW3 more or less today. It's clear as mud that my hair loss progressed a long time and either slowed down to a crawl or stopped dead in its tracks a long time ago. An HT right now would take me back to where I was pretty much a decade ago. I'm seriously considering an HT with 2,000 grafts or more and continue taking RU and CB without the damn minox. At the pace my hair loss has been going, it should hold me over for a long time to come... enough for a Histogen or Replicel treatment should the two lazy biotechs actually release a product (or better yet, Follica).


 hellouser, you're not alone. I used Minox for 1 year and even at the end I was still losing 100 hairs a day at least. With Ru, I am losing between 25-40 hairs a day--big difference. I also use this mexican shampoo called folicure para caspa which makes my hair look thicker when I use it. Out of curiosity, how many hairs do you lose a day?

----------


## JulioGP

Hellouser, 

I saw you use paraphernalia to make the RU at home. Have you seen this?

http://anageninc.com/home-page-produ...tion-50ml.html

RU solution .

----------


## Scalpology

Hellouser. What do you think about mixing 6 ml Neogenic capsule with 150 of RU, then applying 1/3rd of capsule every day? That's 2 ml daily with 50 mg of RU. I can apply it pretty well, just started. Is it a good start? Might bump up to 100 mg RU daily (300 mg per capsule of Neogenic). RU dissolves completely in Neogenic.

----------


## Denda

hellouser nothing but respect for you don't give up ! Im glad to see RU is still doing its job which should help to dispel some rumors that it only works up to 18 months. BTW who is you're avatar? I love it!!!

----------


## Denda

I have heard statements that RU loses its effectiveness after sometime. If anyone has information as to whether this is accurate or not please feel free to share...

----------


## Denda

I'm thinking it could potentially down regulate although in most cases that is certainly reversible

----------


## Thinning92

I've been passively reading on this site for a little over a year, but I decided to sign up tonight and become involved in the discussion.  My first question has already been mentioned  once or twice before, but I was curious as to how y'all feel about the legitimacy of RU. I know that Kanes had been independently tested and proven to be legit, but all it takes I one bad batch. I mean ordering 10g at a time, 50-100mg daily you could effectively be not treating your hairloss for 100-200 consecutive days. Is anyone testing every batch they receive?

----------


## Thinning92

My second question is when applying RU how many of the posters are cover the whole scalp? How localized is the benefit believed to be? I read somewhere that spiro cream is absorbed in about an inch radius around the application site, however reliable that is, do members here believe that this is the case with RU?

Sry for the long posts, just excited to be getting started on the forum.

----------


## Thinning92

Has anyone's else received letters from usps about signing for your package from the Kane shop? I was going to check his website for a reference, but when I did i got an error code trying to enter the website, seems really fishy.

----------


## Swooping

I really think if you kept momentum with RU + minoxidil and added in a corticosteroid to upregulate sulfotransferase with retin-a you would have been a solid NW2 by now. Why did you ever stop your regimen which brought you success? How is your situation now btw?

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> I just ordered some CB from Kane and I can't wait to use it. 
> 
> So quick question: I know you're supposed to freeze the raw powder, but how do you store the pre-mixed solution? As in, after I've mixed CB with the vehicle, do I store it in the fridge or can I just store it in a cool dark place like my drawer for a week?


 You're talking about thekaneshop.com?  Have a look... There's no "About Us" page and nothing about their quality control or manufacturing process.  A whois search indicates a registrant origin in the Province of Shanghai China.

[Edit]  Found old About US page:
http://www.thekaneshop.com/index.php/about-us 

The Website is too low profile and secretive IMO.  Couldn't find a Chinese language version.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## 35YrsAfter

In the forums we constantly hear about doing research before settling on a hair transplant doctor.  Research is a solid concept.  I can't make a judgement one way or the other about thekaneshop.com but I would never use any of their products because of unaddressed safety concerns.

Pollution in China

Article on fake drugs.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## Jazz1

> In the forums we constantly hear about doing research before settling on a hair transplant doctor.  Research is a solid concept.  I can't make a judgement one way or the other about thekaneshop.com but I would never use any of their products because of unaddressed safety concerns.
> 
> Pollution in China
> 
> Article on fake drugs.
> 
> 35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
> The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
> Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck


 I beleve he's been around for a long time, I ordered from him and so many others are having success of his products, success where FIN and DUT failed them.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> I beleve he's been around for a long time, I ordered from him and so many others are having success of his products, success where FIN and DUT failed them.


 "For shipping fake anti-malaria drugs to Nigeria, the Peoples Republic of China, has sentenced six of its nationals to death, the Director-General of the National Agency For Food, Drug Administration and Control (NAFDAC), Dr. Paul Orhii, has said."

Fear of the death penalty may act as a deterrent to manufacturing and selling fake drugs.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## ALM

Hellouser, I'm curious to know if you're still on the same regime and having success?  Also, do you think substituting the 190 Proof Everclear with 150 Proof would alter the efficacy?  The reason I ask is because the highest proof that can be purchased in the stat of Florida is 150.

----------


## Jazz1

> "For shipping fake anti-malaria drugs to Nigeria, the Peoples Republic of China, has sentenced six of its nationals to death, the Director-General of the National Agency For Food, Drug Administration and Control (NAFDAC), Dr. Paul Orhii, has said."
> 
> Fear of the death penalty may act as a deterrent to manufacturing and selling fake drugs.
> 
> 35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
> The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
> Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck


 Also ask yourself how many approved FDA drugs have killed people  :Smile: , I can post a lot of links.

----------


## kantian

Hellouser, have you continued your CB regimen? Is it showing any signs of working?

----------


## burtandernie

You would need to be some form of dumb to order an experimental chemical from some random website in a different country not under FDA regulation. I wont argue though I mean if someone wants to argue the earth is flat I am not going to waste my time explaining to them why they might be wrong.

----------


## kantian

Indeed! The FDA knows all, and everybody outside of the US who is not under direct control by the FDA is out to kill us.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> Also ask yourself how many approved FDA drugs have killed people , I can post a lot of links.


 I agree with you.  More people die every year from legally prescribed drugs than illegal street drugs.  My father's death was related to a prescription medication and so was my mother in law's.  Yesterday I spoke with the CEO of a medical device company.  He told me in recent years, there has been a great deal of damned if you do, damned if you don't regulation coming out of the FDA.  Kind of like the story of the California couple who, in an attempt to avoid a $500 fine for watering their lawn, were slapped with a $500 fine because not watering their lawn made the grass turn brown.

 35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## Hairismylife

Can anyone suggest me a trustworthy source of RU?
Thanks

----------


## nliyan25

> Can anyone suggest me a trustworthy source of RU?
> Thanks


 
Google "The kane shop" and purchase the 10g version

----------


## burtandernie

> Also ask yourself how many approved FDA drugs have killed people , I can post a lot of links.


 Thats really distorting the truth. I mean yeah lots of people die from FDA approved drugs but how many people have serious conditions that require those kinds of drugs? I mean lots of drugs have bad side effects because they are trying to treat such difficult diseases. Lets see you make a drug that treats late stage cancer with few if any minor sides. Its just not possible so yeah the sides can cause deaths but they might die sooner without the drugs anyways. It all depends on the specific condition but the FDA certainly isnt responsible in most cases. Yes the FDA has made mistakes but its impossible not to with such an inexact and complex job. You cant study something until its perfectly safe. People abusing legal drugs is not anyone fault but their own too.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> Thats really distorting the truth. I mean yeah lots of people die from FDA approved drugs but how many people have serious conditions that require those kinds of drugs? I mean lots of drugs have bad side effects because they are trying to treat such difficult diseases. Lets see you make a drug that treats late stage cancer with few if any minor sides. Its just not possible so yeah the sides can cause deaths but they might die sooner without the drugs anyways. It all depends on the specific condition but the FDA certainly isnt responsible in most cases. Yes the FDA has made mistakes but its impossible not to with such an inexact and complex job. You cant study something until its perfectly safe. People abusing legal drugs is not anyone fault but their own too.


 A healthy diet and exercise could eliminate a lot of FDA Approved drug use/abuse.  On the positive side, the FDA did catch the dangers of Thalidomide that caused major birth defects when given to pregnant women in Europe. Thalidomide was never legally available in the US.  On the other hand, the federal government today in the US has become punitive to the degree that it's agencies stifle productivity and prosperity.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## lilpauly

> A healthy diet and exercise could eliminate a lot of FDA Approved drug use/abuse.  On the positive side, the FDA did catch the dangers of Thalidomide that caused major birth defects when given to pregnant women in Europe. Thalidomide was never legally available in the US.  On the other hand, the federal government today in the US has become punitive to the degree that it's agencies stifle productivity and prosperity.
> 
> 35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
> The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
> Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck


  Hi 35yearafter , I was going to get a a minor hairline procedure with dr cole unfortunately his prices are very very high !!!!

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> Hi 35yearafter , I was going to get a a minor hairline procedure with dr cole unfortunately his prices are very very high !!!!


 Were you looking into scalp or body hair?

Chuck
Dr. Cole's

----------


## FearTheLoss

Hell, hows RU going for u?

----------


## hellouser

> Hell, hows RU going for u?


 I'm on Kane's RU... I think comparing it to PHG's RU, its crap... I keep shedding a lot, even without Minox. thankfully there's a group buy in place for PHG's RU and i'm thinking of buying 20 grams, should last me close to half a year.

----------


## Kudu

> I'm on Kane's RU... I think comparing it to PHG's RU, its crap... I keep shedding a lot, even without Minox. thankfully there's a group buy in place for PHG's RU and i'm thinking of buying 20 grams, should last me close to half a year.


 Why do you think it's crap compared to PHG's? Do you think there is a serious quality difference?

----------


## hellouser

> Why do you think it's crap compared to PHG's? Do you think there is a serious quality difference?


 PHG's RU seemed to work much quicker than Kane's.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> PHG's RU seemed to work much quicker than Kane's.


 is it at least maintaining your hair?

----------


## robodoc

Try Ron Shapiro in Minneapolis "Shapiro Clinic".  He is considerably less expensive and equally competent.  I know both...

----------


## robodoc

I don't know if it works.  I started in March at hellouser's concentration, 50mg/ml and used about 2ml at bedtime.  A month later I started increased fall out that has lasted for about 4 months.  About 2 months ago I increased to 75mg/ml and about 3ml daily at bedtime.  So after 6-8 weeks at the higher dose fallout has finally decreased.

This sounds clearly like the higher dose took time to work but  Really I have no idea if the higher dose worked or current reduced loss is just something cyclic.  It has only been 2 weeks since fall out has significantly stopped.   I often have little loss in fall to spring and this could be the situation.  I will keep at a daily dose of 225-300mg daily and report back.  I have read, many have said, higher doses make the difference but weigh that with possible side effects.  I worry about the side effects.

----------


## lifelonglearning

What do you guys think about mixing RU with this http://lorealprofessionnel.co.uk/pro...yl/denser-hair its basically neogenic just cheaper and comes in one bottle instead of small little capsules

----------


## Seuxin

Serioxyl Denser hair is note cheaper than neogenic ! Serioxil is 90 ml....It's the SAME price that neogenic  :Wink:

----------


## robodoc

> PHG's RU seemed to work much quicker than Kane's.


 Kane's RU does nothing for me if that is commentary on his quality.  I tried about 20 grams and noticed no changes in hair.

----------


## robodoc

I would guess RU would work fine in Serioxyl since I presume the solvents are H2O/alc base but minoxidil is so cheap.

----------


## Kudu

Does kane sell premixed RU? Or just powdered form?

----------


## Jazz1

> Does kane sell premixed RU? Or just powdered form?


 Both, Anagen Inc his sister site sells it.

----------


## Illusion

What exactly is PHG? I see you guys talking about PHG's RU but I can't find anything named PHG that is even relevant to hair loss products (or chemicals), let alone RU...

But supposedly PHG is the best RU suplier out there, with Kane coming in as 2nd?

----------


## lilpauly

no tha is not true ru has been tested countless times!

----------


## doke

I second that what is phg ru ? also I have a liquid spiro at 5% it does smell of chemical a bit but goes away after a while what about mixing ru into this? as I do not like minoxidil due to the itching what about inox with isotretinoin as I can get a liquid of that and its supposed help.
Some have regrown there hair with tretinoin and minox with better results than ru, as bryn Shelton used to say ru is no miracle and due to bad batchs and stability isues it was hit and miss with some.
I still have two bottles of anagen premixed ru 5% and may start again with spiro as im not no longer tacking dutasteride.

----------


## Shinobi

> What exactly is PHG? I see you guys talking about PHG's RU but I can't find anything named PHG that is even relevant to hair loss products (or chemicals), let alone RU...
> 
> But supposedly PHG is the best RU suplier out there, with Kane coming in as 2nd?


 I use RU58841 from kane since a few times with good result, my hairloss is now under control.. Kane has been tested to be 99% pure and its what really matter. As a result my experience is really positive.. not sure who are phg but I wouldnt switch anything with my 5% bottle.

----------


## PinotQ

> I use RU58841 from kane since a few times with good result, my hairloss is now under control.. Kane has been tested to be 99% pure and its what really matter. As a result my experience is really positive.. not sure who are phg but I wouldnt switch anything with my 5% bottle.


 Shinobi,  How long have you been using this?  Did it cause any shedding and have you seen any sign of regrowth?

Thanks

----------


## Shinobi

> Shinobi,  How long have you been using this?  Did it cause any shedding and have you seen any sign of regrowth?
> 
> Thanks


 Hi PinotQ,

For now its my only treatment, and yes i got a shedding which is normal for anti androgen, but now my hairloss is under control. I cant say if i have regrowth, but my hair look thicker definitely

----------


## burtandernie

How many people have had their androgen levels tested like DHT before/after using the RU for a period of time to show it actually works?

----------


## Swooping

> How many people have had their androgen levels tested like DHT before/after using the RU for a period of time to show it actually works?


 It doesn't change DHT levels, or any hormonal levels. That is actually a major advantage in my opinion.

----------


## burtandernie

I think what I meant is did anyone check to make sure its not systemically changing any androgen levels? If it blocks receptors then there is more free androgens that were normally binding so it does still seems it would change androgen levels just a smaller amount. Without any test though how do you know its working as it should. Arent there androgen receptors all over in the skin and it doesnt affect anything but the scalp?

----------


## FearTheLoss

> It doesn't change DHT levels, or any hormonal levels. That is actually a major advantage in my opinion.


 
Then why do people report the same sexual sides associated with finasteride?

----------


## lilpauly

> Then why do people report the same sexual sides associated with finasteride?


  I agree with this statement . Some people get sides . In clinical trials propecia said 99% don't get sides I think that is off

----------


## lilpauly

That's why I think studies are always skewed

----------


## Swooping

> Then why do people report the same sexual sides associated with finasteride?


 People vary in systematic absorption from topicals, for example in toxicology studies absorption from minoxidil was 0.7% to 4.7% if i remember correctly.Not only that also metabolism is different in everyone and lastly everyone triggers a different response obviously in terms of side effects.

In short, RU can get systematic in some, and systematical androgen receptor antagonizing will obviously also bring sexual side effects to some people. RU just competitively binds to the androgen receptor though. The major advantage of this is that contrary to finasteride, RU cannot basically (permanently) alter your hormonal profile (and neuroactive steroid levels as has been shown in a study recently). Although rare, people have been permanently changed by finasteride for the worse.

----------


## FearTheLoss

> People vary in systematic absorption from topicals, for example in toxicology studies absorption from minoxidil was 0.7% to 4.7% if i remember correctly.Not only that also metabolism is different in everyone and lastly everyone triggers a different response obviously in terms of side effects.
> 
> In short, RU can get systematic in some, and systematical androgen receptor antagonizing will obviously also bring sexual side effects to some people. RU just competitively binds to the androgen receptor though. The major advantage of this is that contrary to finasteride, RU cannot basically (permanently) alter your hormonal profile (and neuroactive steroid levels as has been shown in a study recently). Although rare, people have been permanently changed by finasteride for the worse.


 Swooping, are you a doctor or scientist?

----------


## Swooping

> Swooping, are you a doctor or scientist?


 Sorry missed this question! No, just genuinely interested  :Smile: .

----------


## FearTheLoss

> Sorry missed this question! No, just genuinely interested .


 Oh, well where did you see that it doesn't change the dh levels or hormonal levels? I'm interested in trying it if that's actually the case. I had horrific sides on oral fin, and bad sides on topical fin.

----------


## Swooping

> Oh, well where did you see that it doesn't change the dh levels or hormonal levels? I'm interested in trying it if that's actually the case. I had horrific sides on oral fin, and bad sides on topical fin.


 http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...erapy-prostate




> Antiandrogens, which are drugs that compete with androgens for binding to the androgen receptor. By competing for binding to the androgen receptor, antiandrogens reduce the ability of androgens to promote prostate cancer cell growth. *Because antiandrogens do not block androgen production, they are rarely used on their own to treat prostate cancer.* Instead, they are used in combination with orchiectomy or an LHRH agonist. Use of an antiandrogen drug in combination with orchiectomy or an LHRH agonist is called combined androgen blockade, complete androgen blockade, or total androgen blockade.


 Do you understand this? It only occupies the receptor so that androgens will have trouble binding. But it doesn't mess with the production of hormones. You can also find some stories of people who have done blood tests before using RU and during RU usage and they had no changes in hormonal profiles. Just google "RU58841 blood test". All the studies of RU including the clinical trials showed no alteration in hormones too btw. If you have any other questions let me know.

----------


## Justinian

Is there any risk involved in RU binding to androgen receptors not in the scalp? Androgen receptors are located throughout the body as far as I know.

I'm thinking that most of it will bind where applied, and so little would reach other receptors that it's basically a non issue?

----------


## FearTheLoss

> http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...erapy-prostate
> 
> 
> 
> Do you understand this? It only occupies the receptor so that androgens will have trouble binding. But it doesn't mess with the production of hormones. You can also find some stories of people who have done blood tests before using RU and during RU usage and they had no changes in hormonal profiles. Just google "RU58841 blood test". All the studies of RU including the clinical trials showed no alteration in hormones too btw. If you have any other questions let me know.


 

Thanks for the info swooping!

----------


## Gjm127

i've been searching but can't seem to find the answer to the following question:

-Why hasn't RU been approved by the FDA?
-What was the company that ran those trials and in which year? Why did it fail, did they give a reason for stopping the clinical trials?

I'm in my 3rd year balding and I'm 23. I want to do something to save the hair I have as I'm slowly turning NW2.5 with a receding hairline and frontal density loser. 

I haven't done anything to save my hair yet. I do have a prescription for Propecia and Minox 5% foam is sitting in my cupboard. I'm a hypochondriac though, too scared I'll get the sides and that they remain permanent. I've been thinking NON-STOP about taking fin or not for the past 2 months. I've literally turned crazy over it. Can't find the right balance to go ahead and take it. 

I need to convince myself to take the plunge, now RU is interesting if I can get that peace of mind.

----------


## rdawg

> i've been searching but can't seem to find the answer to the following question:
> 
> -Why hasn't RU been approved by the FDA?
> -What was the company that ran those trials and in which year? Why did it fail, did they give a reason for stopping the clinical trials?


 - it stopped at phase II because the company didnt see the monetary value of it.

it's essentially the same as fin(probably a little more powerful in the right dose), yet FIN is a pill you just have to take once a day(if you take DUT you can take that even less often!) RU is a more complicated topical, so it's a tougher sell to the general population. 

It was just a tough sell, RU isn't the most stable chemical and it just wasnt worth it to pursue a drug that essentially has the same effect as fin, still might cause sides(unlike CB) and may not be as stable or as easy to produce. no monetary value for the company. 

CB on the other hand is being deemed as a side-effect free type of drug and potentially much more powerful, plus it has a much richer company backing it.

you also have potentially other options coming in such things as BIM which has just finished phase IIB

----------


## lilpauly

> i've been searching but can't seem to find the answer to the following question:
> 
> -Why hasn't RU been approved by the FDA?
> -What was the company that ran those trials and in which year? Why did it fail, did they give a reason for stopping the clinical trials?
> 
> I'm in my 3rd year balding and I'm 23. I want to do something to save the hair I have as I'm slowly turning NW2.5 with a receding hairline and frontal density loser. 
> 
> I haven't done anything to save my hair yet. I do have a prescription for Propecia and Minox 5% foam is sitting in my cupboard. I'm a hypochondriac though, too scared I'll get the sides and that they remain permanent. I've been thinking NON-STOP about taking fin or not for the past 2 months. I've literally turned crazy over it. Can't find the right balance to go ahead and take it. 
> 
> I need to convince myself to take the plunge, now RU is interesting if I can get that peace of mind.


 junp on fin and Minox first . Fin stops the balding process and gives regrowth sometines and Minox will grow the hair

----------


## Gjm127

> junp on fin and Minox first . Fin stops the balding process and gives regrowth sometines and Minox will grow the hair


 The Big-3 has always interested me but I always told myself I was too scared of the sides from each (dark circles, ED, scalp irritation...), but now that my baldness is really bugging me and that my genetic background  almost certainly confirms that I'll lose all my hair in 2 year if I don't do anything, I can't take not helping my hair.

That's why I bought 2% Nizoral last week and juuust ordered Minox 5% foam from eBay.

I have a dermatologist's and private doctor's appointment this week. If they are able to reassure me about FIN sides, I will get on 1mg FIN as I already have the prescription. I'm just too scared about FIN now... Too many horror stories, articles, studies, and on top of that I'm a fk'in hypochondriac.

----------


## Gjm127

> - it stopped at phase II because the company didnt see the monetary value of it.
> 
> it's essentially the same as fin(probably a little more powerful in the right dose), yet FIN is a pill you just have to take once a day(if you take DUT you can take that even less often!) RU is a more complicated topical, so it's a tougher sell to the general population. 
> 
> It was just a tough sell, RU isn't the most stable chemical and it just wasnt worth it to pursue a drug that essentially has the same effect as fin, still might cause sides(unlike CB) and may not be as stable or as easy to produce. no monetary value for the company. 
> 
> CB on the other hand is being deemed as a side-effect free type of drug and potentially much more powerful, plus it has a much richer company backing it.
> 
> you also have potentially other options coming in such things as BIM which has just finished phase IIB


 Yes it RU certainly looks like it delivers... when did the company attempt to develop it? Who was it?

Lol I'm gonna ask my dermatologist about RU... I'm sure by the law he's supposed to advise against it but who knows!

----------


## rdawg

> Yes it RU certainly looks like it delivers... when did the company attempt to develop it? Who was it?
> 
> Lol I'm gonna ask my dermatologist about RU... I'm sure by the law he's supposed to advise against it but who knows!


 you're gonna have to buy the stuff and mix it yourself, Doctors cant really prescribe this stuff off-label or anything(like dut or bim for example) and many wont know anything about it. Gotta get a few grams for example and mix it yourself 

cant remember when, it was early-mid 2000's and it was under a different name.

----------


## Justinian

> you're gonna have to buy the stuff and mix it yourself, Doctors cant really prescribe this stuff off-label or anything(like dut or bim for example) and many wont know anything about it. Gotta get a few grams for example and mix it yourself 
> 
> cant remember when, it was early-mid 2000's and it was under a different name.


 I believe it was PSK-3841 http://www.examiner.com/article/an-e...dness-ru-58841

----------


## Gjm127

> you're gonna have to buy the stuff and mix it yourself, Doctors cant really prescribe this stuff off-label or anything(like dut or bim for example) and many wont know anything about it. Gotta get a few grams for example and mix it yourself 
> 
> cant remember when, it was early-mid 2000's and it was under a different name.


 yeah yeah no worries, I know about the mixing and sketchiness about it lol that's why I said he probably can't advise me to try it by the law...

It's really the sketchiness that worries me... I mean, the label up front that says NOT FOR HUMAN TESTING is already pretty freaky itself lol

----------


## lilpauly

> yeah yeah no worries, I know about the mixing and sketchiness about it lol that's why I said he probably can't advise me to try it by the law...
> 
> It's really the sketchiness that worries me... I mean, the label up front that says NOT FOR HUMAN TESTING is already pretty freaky itself lol


  RU would require a prescription . That's why it says not human use .

----------


## Swooping

> i've been searching but can't seem to find the answer to the following question:
> 
> -Why hasn't RU been approved by the FDA?
> -What was the company that ran those trials and in which year? Why did it fail, did they give a reason for stopping the clinical trials?


 Most likely $$$.. Really a shame. This says enough I guess;

----------


## Gjm127

I went to the derm yesterday. Surprisingly enough he didn't rule out RU! He said as a certified doctor, he can only suggest me to take what's approved on the market, but he didn't seem overly stunned at my attempt of asking him what he thinks about RU. He did say doses are so minimal that sides would not be apparent compared to FIN but did make the analogy with the fact that tar applied on skin could be found in your urine so the skin is porous and anything CAN theoretically make it in your bloodstream and system and since we don't know the effects of RU in the body, it could be toxic/dangerous.

Btw, he's a private dermatologist that has VERY good knowledge (he actually appears on TV and is a very reputable doctor in my city), he knew about RU, he knew about the research center in Vancouver's UBC about derm and hair loss. He gave me very good insight on hair loss, one that a normal GP would NOT give. When asked about FIN, he told me he's much more worried about the lack of studies made for prostate and breast cancer than the sexual side effects.

----------


## hellouser

> I went to the derm yesterday. Surprisingly enough he didn't rule out RU! He said as a certified doctor, he can only suggest me to take what's approved on the market, but he didn't seem overly stunned at my attempt of asking him what he thinks about RU. He did say doses are so minimal that sides would not be apparent compared to FIN but did make the analogy with the fact that tar applied on skin could be found in your urine so the skin is porous and anything CAN theoretically make it in your bloodstream and system and since we don't know the effects of RU in the body, it could be toxic/dangerous.
> 
> Btw, he's a private dermatologist that has VERY good knowledge (he actually appears on TV and is a very reputable doctor in my city), he knew about RU, he knew about the research center in Vancouver's UBC about derm and hair loss. He gave me very good insight on hair loss, one that a normal GP would NOT give. When asked about FIN, he told me he's much more worried about the lack of studies made for prostate and breast cancer than the sexual side effects.


 A doctor that knows something about hair loss? That's rare.

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> I went to the derm yesterday. Surprisingly enough he didn't rule out RU! He said as a certified doctor, he can only suggest me to take what's approved on the market, but he didn't seem overly stunned at my attempt of asking him what he thinks about RU. He did say doses are so minimal that sides would not be apparent compared to FIN but did make the analogy with the fact that tar applied on skin could be found in your urine so the skin is porous and anything CAN theoretically make it in your bloodstream and system and since we don't know the effects of RU in the body, it could be toxic/dangerous.


 Sounds like you found a good doctor.

Vitamin A and Iodine for example are toxic at certain levels but necessary for a healthy body at their recommended levels.  Urushiol (oil from poison ivy) is considered one of the most toxic substances on the planet. About 85% of all humans are allergic to the oil but animals are apparently unaffected.  A lot of guys are using RU.  If there is a toxicity threshold with RU, there should be some similar reported side effects making their way into the hair loss forums.  Lots of variables to consider though.  For example lung cancer from cigarette smoking may not show up in a smoker for decades.


35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

----------


## Illusion

@Chuck, what does Dr. Cole think of RU?

----------


## 35YrsAfter

> @Chuck, what does Dr. Cole think of RU?


 I haven't been able to find any information related to the actual reason Roussel Uclaf Corporation didn't pursue marketing and approval for RU58841.  Only speculation.  PubMed.gov has an article from 1994 presenting RU as a hopeful treatment for androgenic alopecia.  Names of researchers are listed as:
Battmann T, Bonfils A, Branche C, Humbert J, Goubet F, Teutsch G, Philibert D.
Perhaps one of these guys could be contacted and asked whether there were safety concerns.  Might have to read between the lines.

Referenced RU58841 Article

I'm fairly certain Dr. Cole's opinion of RU58841 would be heavily influenced by its non-FDA approval status.

Chuck

----------


## Amercancer

Hello, for anyone using RU powder. Do u place the powder on freezer all the time. I was just putting the mix in there and keeping the powder on a shelf. Did I kill the RU powder?

----------


## lilpauly

> Hello, for anyone using RU powder. Do u place the powder on freezer all the time. I was just putting the mix in there and keeping the powder on a shelf. Did I kill the RU powder?


  No it's stable in room temp for a very very long time !

----------


## Amercancer

So why do people always say they keep the RU powder before they mix it in the freezer? I know u put it in freezer after u do the mixing.

----------


## lilpauly

> So why do people always say they keep the RU powder before they mix it in the freezer? I know u put it in freezer after u do the mixing.


  no I dont . I store my mine in the refrig

----------


## Amercancer

So u put the raw RU in fridge and after u mix it in freezer?

----------


## lilpauly

> So u put the raw RU in fridge and after u mix it in freezer?


 I keep RU in refring , and make batches that last approx 2 weeks and keep at room temp

----------


## Amercancer

Well I've been keeping the RU in room temp. and the bottles in freezer. Was I doing it wrong?

----------


## Boldy

> Well I've been keeping the RU in room temp. and the bottles in freezer. Was I doing it wrong?


 doesn't really matter if you are going to use it up in certain time. I keep the powder at room temp (about 21 Celsius) and the solutions too which I mix 60 ML each time lately. it stays effective. one of the side effects is very dry facial skin due to less sebum and or  shrinkage of the sebaceous glans which remains no matter how  or how long i store the solution.

----------


## Illusion

Hellouser, have you actually been doing CB? Maybe I've missed it but I haven't really heard you talking about CB as of late. If you haven't started CB yet, why not? If you have started CB, what dosage and how much is it costing you per month? If I recall correctly, one of the main problems of CB was that the dosage needed to be fairly high and at the $/gram it is today, it would be crazy expensive...

----------


## inbrugge

> Hellouser, have you actually been doing CB? Maybe I've missed it but I haven't really heard you talking about CB as of late. If you haven't started CB yet, why not? If you have started CB, what dosage and how much is it costing you per month? If I recall correctly, one of the main problems of CB was that the dosage needed to be fairly high and at the $/gram it is today, it would be crazy expensive...


 I think CB is out of the picture for now as an off the market solution. The discussions earlier kinda concluded that we don't really know the dosage required to be effective. If it's around 5% then it's way too expensive to be reasonable. If there's any hope from CB, it will be once their newly started phase 2 trials conclude.

----------


## yayay

Hi, I'd need a little advise, I'm planning to use RU with KB and also neogenic. My question is, should I take them one after another, or mix both of them ? 
Thank's a lot.

----------


## Boldy

i would use Neogenic first because it dries up pretty fast, and K&B is supposed to leave a layer  on your scalp.

----------


## abrorcasanova

Hellouser, could you please give an update on your current state with the RU usage? Thank you.

----------


## robodoc

> http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...erapy-prostate
> 
> 
> 
> Do you understand this? It only occupies the receptor so that androgens will have trouble binding. But it doesn't mess with the production of hormones. You can also find some stories of people who have done blood tests before using RU and during RU usage and they had no changes in hormonal profiles. Just google "RU58841 blood test". All the studies of RU including the clinical trials showed no alteration in hormones too btw. If you have any other questions let me know.


 
Here is my take on RU: I doubt it works and if it did then it would be marketed or if it does work no drug company was willing to promote or distribute it because of side effects.  Securing FDA approval costs serious money for testing but it is not worth any drug company's time....  Money talks and there is no money in RU for any drug company...I will pass on its use for myself unless there are bonafide studies that indicate efficacy and safety.....I have not seen such reports.

----------


## Trouse5858

I'm about 3 weeks into RU and am wondering if I am having side effects or if it's all in my head. I've read on this thread that gyno is the most common side effect.  I have what is a fairly small but firm lump just outside of my right nipple that is somewhat tender to touch, but really a non issue otherwise.  Does this sound indicative of gyno??

I'm planning on making a thread after my 3 month mark with before and after photos, but obviously that's assuming this doesn't become a legitimate issue that worries me.

----------


## hellouser

> Here is my take on RU: I doubt it works and if it did then it would be marketed or if it does work no drug company was willing to promote or distribute it because of side effects.


 Aderans worked and it got pulled by the corporate suits just to keep selling wigs. What's your explanation for that?

RU works.

----------


## abrorcasanova

Hi Hellouser,

Just asking once again, would you mind giving an update how it is going with RU for you?

Thanks!

----------


## hellouser

> Hi Hellouser,
> 
> Just asking once again, would you mind giving an update how it is going with RU for you?
> 
> Thanks!


 I hopped off RU for a while and lost some density. I recently got back on it, was shedding a LOT for a few months and things have somewhat stabilized, however hair is thin and hairline has receded further in the last couple of years.

----------


## unbalding

I saw that you are doing RU once a week now. Do you think that is working as well as once a day did for you? Did reduce the interval because of side effects? If so, are they still a problem using it once a week?

----------


## unbalding

Ok. Nevermind.

----------


## Swooping

> I hopped off RU for a while and lost some density. I recently got back on it, was shedding a LOT for a few months and things have somewhat stabilized, however hair is thin and hairline has receded further in the last couple of years.


 How about minoxidil? Are you still on it?

----------


## BiqqieSmalls

Great regrowth my friend! 

Couple questions: 1) Are you still using CB? How would you rate its efficacy? 2) Are you still on Minoxidil 5%? 3) Have you gotten more regrowth since 2013?

----------


## FearTheLoss

hell, did you ever end up using CB and did you get any results?

----------


## robodoc

Let me guess, RU stopped working or is not effective.....my experience is such.

this is awful to say, AAPE, VPA, Finasteride,Nizoral, Minox, caffeine is starting to work for me......premature I would say but that is the deal after one month.  Of course I will report back if there is progress.  From shedding to minimal loss that is a movement forward but way too early to talk about it.

----------


## diffuseloser

I'm off RU about a month now. No shedding my hair actually seems to look a little better. Not sure what to make of RU but can't justify paying out for it right now if it's not really doing much for me. I did have what appears to be decent re-growth not long after initially using it, but it seems to just stop working after a while unfortunately. A quick fix but not much else. Just beginning to accept that nothing will work any time soon and not holding out for anything but great if something does come along. Don't get your hopes up guys just get on with your life as best you can and enjoy it because you'll look back and regret stressing and wasting time worrying about hair loss.

----------


## robodoc

I tend to think RU works for some for a period of time.  I THINK it is temporary but love to be wrong on this.  Good luck.

----------


## diffuseloser

Works for sure but only for a while. I'd keep on it if it want so f'ing expensive.

----------


## Illusion

Yeah I feel the same about RU, it worked pretty good the first few months but it seemed like it got less effective after a while. I'm now almost at 8 months of usage and my hair line is thinning in new places.

However it's really hard for me to say anything about the efficacy of RU as I also use finasteride (1.25mg) and minoxidil once a day

----------


## robodoc

Ok, it has been over 2 years now.  Does RU still work?  I am thinking not and it does have some side effects, correct? 

(Ruislip,Mdsx)

----------


## Seuxin

Why RU would be just effective for a while ? Disapointing  :Frown: 

Maybe with CB it will be the same.... :\

----------


## markusbdc

> I currently use finasteride and dutasteride.


 Wow- That would seem to be a seriously castrating combination...Are you still doing them both? and if so how is your libido and mental status etc...? I have been on dutasteride for about a year now and it has been tough on me mentally...

----------


## robodoc

RU does not work.  If it did we all would  be using it...maybe it worked for a little while?  Drug companies would sell it if it worked without sides.  Someone who has used RU for over 2 years and had regrowth or no more loss, please speak up.

----------


## robodoc

> http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...erapy-prostate
> 
> 
> 
> Do you understand this? It only occupies the receptor so that androgens will have trouble binding. But it doesn't mess with the production of hormones. You can also find some stories of people who have done blood tests before using RU and during RU usage and they had no changes in hormonal profiles. Just google "RU58841 blood test". All the studies of RU including the clinical trials showed no alteration in hormones too btw. If you have any other questions let me know.


 With all due respect your explanation is simplistic.  Your post is many years old.  I suspect reality has tempered your love of RU.

----------


## robodoc

> I don't understand why people are skeptical about RU...in clinical trials it out performed Finasteride by a good amount at 6months


 So is it working for you?

----------


## Swooping

> With all due respect your explanation is simplistic.  Your post is many years old.  I suspect reality has tempered your love of RU.


 What is exactly the simplistic explanation?

----------


## Beauh

Hi hello user. Thanks for your services. I'm wondering if you've had any experience with tm30089? Have you tried it or do you know anyone who's tried it who said it works.

----------


## 5000

> Many of you have seen me post and boast about RU and many of you have also inquired about my progress... well, here is my log.
> 
> I noticed my hair going bad.. I mean really bad back in around March of 2011. I didn't notice it thin out or anything, but rather my hair line go waaaay back than what it used to be. I noticed this after I was at a club with friends and had some pictures of myself taken. The lighting on my face was rather harsh and it exposed a lot of scalp behind the hairline which made the hairline look higher than it actually is. This is where my life started going downhill..... its when I realized I looked fvcking weird and it was my hair. By this time I was already an NW2-3, but I never really took much notice into my hairline.. I didn't care about it before, I thought I looked normal (I mean I still do, but society is full of shithead assholes so no, by their standards I dont look normal).
> 
> *February, 2011* - Before Regimen
> So I started reading about things that can be done. I learned about Saw Palmetto, Nizoral, Finasteride, hair transplants and Replicel. I read about Finasteride castrating men and giving many side effects and it was a complete write off. It still is and its a dangerous drug which no man should take. I'm not saying I'd take it away from those who are already on it with results, but Finasteride is pure bullshit. My first line of defense? Saw Palmetto, and even with that I was hesitant as I ready about mild effects. But the bad breathe issue was the worst problem. It subsided eventually though.
> 
> Here's what my hair looked like then (these are from a club, so apologies for the crappy quality). Mind you, I used to use a good but 'wet' product called Bedhead by Tigi. This makes hair look quite thin as it climps hair real close together, hence it looking thin below.
> 
> ...


 Wonderful, looks amazing but you need to share your experience as of today. alot of people can get help from you. kindly post your current updates regarding hairloss and effectiveness of its treatment you were following

----------


## robodoc

> What is exactly the simplistic explanation?


 Thanks for your great reply.  Very useful I am sure.  Where do you get all that great info on cancer treatment?  It is good we have medical genius' here to enlighten us.  I may have about 10 times more medical training that you, perhaps.

I will say again, RU is not produced by a drug company.  Why?  Very safe?  Very effective? I doubt neither.  

Thanks, hope that was not too simplistic for you but you never know.

----------


## bluewater

UK_ What does "absolute wonders" mean? Does it me you re regrowing hair or just maintaining what you have?

----------


## Nigel Thornberry

Wait, what is CB?

----------


## LAMB

Anyone ever used Topical Dusteride-D5A or bimatoprost-FR10 reason am asking both of these i have brought online and just been on it for less then a month and although am a long way from seeing any results as am norwood 5-6 so i got long battle ahead , The company that manufactures it are based in miami USA and is made in USA so no doubt it is legit so just wanted to see if anyone used such treatments. Many thanks

----------


## SteamFenix

> Anyone ever used Topical Dusteride-D5A or bimatoprost-FR10 reason am asking both of these i have brought online and just been on it for less then a month and although am a long way from seeing any results as am norwood 5-6 so i got long battle ahead , The company that manufactures it are based in miami USA and is made in USA so no doubt it is legit so just wanted to see if anyone used such treatments. Many thanks


 I have the same doubt. The FR-10 look likes a good product, but I didnt see anybody with some results.

----------


## LAMB

> I have the same doubt. The FR-10 look likes a good product, but I didnt see anybody with some results.


 I first had doubt but after a lot of researching the main company and manufacturing is based in USA under sapphire health miami USA so naturally they are inspected by the relevant authorities the retailer i brought it from stated although it is made in USA they are not allowed to sell them directly from USA due to red tapes but can be brought from offshore they used to be called Polaris , I been on the treatment about a month looks promising but too early to see major results i will upload a picture in about 3-4 months.

----------


## SteamFenix

> I first had doubt but after a lot of researching the main company and manufacturing is based in USA under sapphire health miami USA so naturally they are inspected by the relevant authorities the retailer i brought it from stated although it is made in USA they are not allowed to sell them directly from USA due to red tapes but can be brought from offshore they used to be called Polaris , I been on the treatment about a month looks promising but too early to see major results i will upload a picture in about 3-4 months.


 Yes, they changed their name. Before was Polaris and now Follics. I bought the FR-16 some months ago, but the product was send from China. At least 3 months to arrive in Brazil. Wherever, for me this company has the good knowledge to manufacture this kind of product. 

Im thinking about to try this one.

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## LAMB

The website i brought it from (There is only 1 based in UK) has no option for brazil on there website but did say if anyone is willing to wait for the package as it takes anywhere between 6-10 weeks sometimes even longer to get delivered to brazil by standard tracked mail then they are more then willing to ship and will provide an custom invoice to make payment.

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## baldkiwi

Please keep us updated LAMB on your progress.
Im interested to try this product, I see FR10 is available from minoxidilexpress.com

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## LAMB

Hi there, Don't know why my post is not getting posted but here is a close up on my frontal area see attachment picture as you can see the old hairs which are longer and thicker and sparsely started and the new ones are starting to get thicker but it is still short and slow in growth my regime was once a night I used Topical dutasteride D5A and every other night I used to apply FR10 but due to high demand for FR10 and since the COVID-19 the production has stopped and will resume by the end of the year as that is what I have been told by the website I buy my product so currently for the last 2-3 months I been using D5A once a night and FR16 cream twice a week I do not use both on the same night followed by 0.75mm derma rolling which can be painful at first but as soon as you apply the cream or D5A the derma rolling sensation subdues so am not sure which product is making the most effect.

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