Retrograde Alopecia...Big 3

[BottleCap]

Hello All!
I started receeding when I was about 21, I'm now 26. It slowly receeded to a Norwood 2 and then in Febuary the whole forelock thinned out, the temporal points and behind the forelock thinned even more than that, making way for a very noticeable island pattern characteristic of MPB.
So I guess it's looking like a very thin at the front Norwood 3, definitely past the point of acceptable looking.

I also have noticed considerable thinning of the sides, sideburns and abover the ears. This I think is 'retrograde alopecia' I think unlike DUPA this is still an Androgenic hair loss so i'm hoping propecia will work.

My Hair looked really thick on top before I shaved my head, now it's shaved it looks like I also have a Norwood 6ish pattern forming, although this could be the lighting.
If I can stablilise the loss, I would consider a hair transplant. However, unfortunately my grandparents were NW2's at most when they died. My Dad is Norwood 3 at 60 (was still norwood 2 at 50) and my uncle is Norwood 2 at 65. Only my older brother also has similar hair loss as me. His is slightly better due probably to him being a fitness freak and healthy eater...I am not.
But this means I have no idea where I will end up. I think judging by the sides I'm doomed to something beyond the norwood scale!!

I tried Fin a couple of months ago, but had some sides and then Propeciahelp.com scared me shitless so I quit. A little later I 'Manned up' and shaved my head. Unfortunatly my head shape is really ugly and weird looking from various angles so I NEED my hair back!! So now i'm back on Propecia 1mg ED with the addition of Rogaine foam in morning, Kirkland liquid at night and Revita shampoo and conditioner.

What do you guys reckon?
Is it retrograde?
If so will Finasteride still work?
By the look of my Norwood pattern, do you think this could thicken up to get back to Norwood 2?
Anything else you can think of to add to my regime?
And is there anything I can do to counter any side effects? (zinc?)

I'm hoping the temporal regions will fill in as there still is a bit of hair left to an extent, very miniaturized. But mostly the forelock and behind the forelock.
But as long as it's not slick bald, I have a chance at some hair growth, yes?

Thanks

[BottleCap]

Sorry images are so big!

[jamesst11]

I don't know man... looks like MPB to me, but I am not a doctor. Uniform thinning of temples and small thinning spot in back. Is the hair around your ears and down by your neck thinning too? what makes you think this is retrograde? You're one of the lucky ones that can rock the shaved head. I would say just shave it and be free, but I know people hate to hear that.

[BottleCap]

Yea it's definitely MPB, due to the receding at the temples. But above the ears and sideburns is really thin as well, you can see the hairs really miniaturised on the side picture with hair long, not so obvious when it's buzzed. Nape of neck isn't thin at all yet. However my brother who has a similar pattern as me, his thinning is above the ears and around the nape. So I really think it is retrograde. What I'm wondering, is Retrograde alopecia still Androgenic Alopecia? will fin help?

The small circle on the crown which looks like crown loss. That's the same density as the rest of my head, it's just a bump in my scull. However in that picture it also looks like a Norwood 6 diffused pattern is forming. But could just be the lighting as you can see when hairs long, that's still very thick.

Do you think the very miniaturised hair could thicken back up with fin and minox? If they do I'm saved.

Also sadly I really can't rock the shaved look. Although that side picture of me isn't tooo bad it is unfortunately just a flattering picture at a good angle, still a little bit shit. Front on doesn't look to bad either but most angles looking at me and my head shape is horrendous. I think it looks seriously ugly, got me down worse than the hairloss I think. I tried to just shave and move on but god my head is so ****ing ugly! I really need to thicken up at the front, so I can grow it out more.

[jamesst11]

Most people have the tendency to believe they are "uglier" than they actually are. I don't even want to know what my head looks like shaved, hopefully, I'll never find out, haha. I don't really know too much about the condition you mention. A derm would be your best bet. The hair on the sides and back is supposedly a lot less susceptible to DHT induced miniaturization anyways, so I am unsure if fin would be your weapon of choice.

[BottleCap]

Yea hopefully you don't have to shave!!! it is depressing, some people say it's liberating, and I think it would be if you have the right shape head and have been obsessing over hair loss. I was obsessing like a lot of us, shaved it to hopefully take control of that situation as it was getting in the way of sorting out my depression that I have anyway. But unfortunately I am absolutely obsessing over the shape of my head. I really hate it, It really makes me feel ugly as hell.
I think actually I have body dysmorphic disorder over the shape of my head, even that side shot looks a little shit, but I wouldn't post any other angle shots because I wouldn't want anyone to agree with me.

This is why I MUST get my hair back to an extent. Just to a NW2.5 and maintain would be ideal.
Unfortunately i'm not very optimistic about getting much regrowth, or even maintaining. I just know I would never be lucky enough to be a good responder to Fin and Minox. And actually probably unlucky enough for it to do nothing!!

The main reason I'm pessimistic about getting results is that I read a study that the people who generally have success on Finasteride are the ones who have above average body hair, they also generally don't get much in the way of side effects.
This is because these people have higher than normal DHT levels.

The non responders generally have low body hair and do get side effects, this is because they have normal DHT levels but sensitive hair follicles.

I have low body hair and I got sides last time I tried Fin

I'm thinking of going to see a Derm, but apparently in the UK Dermatologists have little knowledge on hairloss.

[jamesst11]

I don't know where you read that, but that is not true, and bro science at it's best. The internet is your worst enemy when it comes to treating hair loss. 1) you will find a MILLION scam artists trying to sell you garbage and feeding of your vulnerabilities. 2)FEAR MONGERING will consume your mind... I have seen several accounts of fin working with all sorts of different people and the body hair thing has not even been studied or properly statistically analyzed. If you have MPB, you have receptors that are impacted by circulating DHT. IF you take medication to somewhat inhibit the enzyme that catalyzes the reaction in which DHT is formed, then you reduce circulating DHT (for most people). Reduce circulating DHT, in scalp, prevent hair loss. It's a reaction within your body. How your personal physiology responds to it can not be dependant on body hair, it just doesn't add up. If you are really afraid of losing your hair and if you have minimal side effects from fin, that is really your only option right now. I started off 1mg EOD for first 2 months, then jumped up to 1mg a day. You have to try it to see and you have to wait a minimum of 8 months to gauge results. As with all things in life, it's a hard decision and you have to balance the pros and cons. For me, hairloss was severely impacting my life. It was a hard choice and took me 2 years to try it.

[BottleCap]

Cheers James. I will definitely give fin a go, It's the only real weapon we have. I'm just gutted that I'm beyond the acceptable amount of loss. I didn't look into balding treatments because I was in a loving relationship for 6 years. The relationship ended in January, soon after my hairline thinned out considerably. I went from a NW2.5ish to where I am now. Hairloss is really impacting my life as well, really ****ing it up.
So I'm really hoping I get a little bit of thickening and regrowth and then good maintenance. Fingers crossed.

[BottleCap]

It wasn't trying to sell anything that study.

I think it was pretty sound scientifically.

The Idea is Hair follicles are damaged by DHT, some people have more sensitive hair follicles than others, therefore more prone to hairloss than others.
Then there are people who just have higher DHT levels (High DHT= more bodyhair), so they also go bald, even so there follicles are not particularly sensitive.

The idea is that the latter don't suffer side effects because Fin brings there DHT levels down to normal ranges and because they don't have sensitive follicles, it halts and even reverses some hair loss.

It does sound a bit bro-science how I put it. But sounded kind of believable when I read it, also I have noticed people with success stories generally don't encounter side effects much.

I will persist with the big 3 though! Just being a little pessimistic.